418 - Assume It's A Masterpiece

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome.

[2] To my favorite murder.

[3] That's Georgia Hardstark.

[4] That is Karen Kilgariff.

[5] We are going to do podcasting now.

[6] Here it is.

[7] Ready?

[8] It's talking.

[9] Do you have your podcasting tea?

[10] I've got my podcasting macha, functional macha going.

[11] I've got my PG tips.

[12] Awesome.

[13] Milk and sugar?

[14] Yep.

[15] Milk and honey.

[16] Old school Pepsi can.

[17] Old school.

[18] Well, because it's caffeine -free.

[19] Oh.

[20] And diet.

[21] I didn't know you were a Pepsi human.

[22] I thought you were Diet Coke human.

[23] And a water.

[24] I like to have three beverages and I also, the truth is diet Coke is what everyone always has.

[25] But Diet Pepsi is my preference because I'm from the country.

[26] I really don't like Pepsi products.

[27] Are you going to have a fight right now?

[28] We could.

[29] I think people would love something like that.

[30] Right.

[31] Controversy.

[32] We just disagreed over Pepsi.

[33] Hold on, wait.

[34] Let's get into the energy of Coke versus Pepsi.

[35] Wait, you like Pepsi?

[36] Yeah.

[37] And I have for a while.

[38] See, I'm a Coke girl and I feel like Coke girls are like, you know, I don't know, what are we on a different plane.

[39] Oh, oh.

[40] Let's not.

[41] I thought you were bailing.

[42] No, I was trying to be a pick me girl over Coke, but I just couldn't think of anything.

[43] I mean, I just think that people keep Diet Coke around more because they know that the people who care are the ones that like diet.

[44] Actresses.

[45] Yes.

[46] If you have an actress come over, let's just say an actress stops by your house.

[47] The car breaks down in front of your house.

[48] You're going to want to have Diet Coke on hand.

[49] I swear to you.

[50] And also sniffable Coke.

[51] And also cocaine Coke.

[52] If you want to be a good host or hostess, however you identify hosting -wise.

[53] What do you have?

[54] I have a follow.

[55] I have.

[56] No. What I ask you what you have and then immediately tell you what I have.

[57] That's not good podcast.

[58] Wait, you must be excited.

[59] Tell me what you have.

[60] I just have a follow up from my story from last week, the Crouch family murders that farm 1 ,800 farmhouse murder.

[61] That's someone named Emily wrote in.

[62] Can I read this to you real quick?

[63] And listen, this is a great sample of our hometown episodes.

[64] This is the kind of content you can expect.

[65] And you should also write in to my favorite murder at Gmail.

[66] that's right with your content and it could be about anything if you see on your feed that it says minisode and you're the kind of person that goes i've never listened to one of those therefore that's not for me yeah hey hey i relate i'm also gen x you agree you will like it it it's other people's stories yeah that's all your friends why are we plugging our own podcast on the podcast i don't know they're doing enough they're doing enough heavy lifting just listening to this shit and yeah and now we're fucking demanding this starts hi friends georgia did the crotch family murders in episode 417, which took place in Jackson, Michigan.

[67] I have lived in Jackson most of my life, and this is one of my favorite stories to tell when we pass by the graveyard on our way out to the family farm.

[68] The rumor around Jackson is that escaped prisoners jumped off a train and broke into the house, killing the family.

[69] Remember it was like, is it the sun?

[70] Yeah.

[71] Jackson is home to the big prison in Michigan hosting some of the worst of the worst.

[72] We also have the oldest working train station in America.

[73] It has said that there was a horrible storm that night, which there was, and that some prisoners used it to escape the prison.

[74] The railroad tracks that run behind the prison also run behind the land that the Crouch family owned.

[75] Since they escaped, it's rumored that they saw the house and went in for clothes, food, supplies, etc., before hopping on to another train and then disappeared.

[76] Whoa.

[77] Because of the storm, the gunshots were hard to hear or possibly mistaken for thunder from the storm, which is why no one really noticed.

[78] And it goes on to talk about the suspected hauntings at the graveyard and stuff like that.

[79] Yeah, from Emily.

[80] Emily gave us see a working theory at least that's something to clasp on to and then it makes me think remember i've recommended this book literally seven times on this podcast but it's because i'm so obsessed it's a book called the man from the train and that follows right along that's what that guy would do yeah in and out and never to be fucking seen again right except for your he's not yours the murderer that emily is talking about used a gun all right but you got to imagine back then And there's so many hobos going town to town.

[81] True.

[82] You escape prison or even if you get, I mean, yeah, it's just probably happen a lot.

[83] It's like truck driver serial killers now.

[84] It's probably much more prevalent because the anonymity.

[85] They're everywhere, exactly.

[86] Yes, they get to slip right back in and then drive away.

[87] No shame on truck drivers.

[88] Y 'all are doing great work out there when you're not killing people.

[89] Except for a handful.

[90] There are a handful.

[91] They are a handful of those truck drivers.

[92] I've been to your truck stops along the five.

[93] I know.

[94] What you got?

[95] The thing I was excited about that I was saying at the same time as you is there is a new series on Hulu called Shogun.

[96] Yeah.

[97] We started it.

[98] Did you?

[99] It's so fucking good.

[100] And I was so excited.

[101] And I thought I was excited about when this series was premiering because there's a billboard near my house, which sometimes I'll do.

[102] I'll be like, well, if that's my home billboard, I'll support you.

[103] Oh, that's sweet.

[104] I feel sad.

[105] The billboards around like that part of the valley.

[106] There's a lot of billboards that go up and I know people get really excited and they go right back down and no one ever sees what's on them.

[107] They're quick.

[108] Yeah.

[109] But so this one I was excited for and I was like, I love a sweeping historical drama, etc. But then my sister, I'm talking to my sister.

[110] And she goes, I don't know why I'm so excited, but I really am.

[111] And she goes, I know why you're so excited because Shogun was that.

[112] book mom and dad read in the 70s and that's what all their friends talked about and like shogun i don't even remember it but laura remembers where that was like the book club book of the month or whatever like clan of the cave bear that's the one i fucking that hasn't printed on me yes and you've got shogun i love it it's kind of like it seems like a lord of the ring like a japanese lord of the rings kind of a thing.

[113] But it's, it's actually real.

[114] So it's like, it's Japanese, like, warring, feudal.

[115] Yeah.

[116] But that idea of like, yeah, clans and kingdoms and everybody fighting and who's going to do what.

[117] But it's really fascinating.

[118] It's also about colonialism.

[119] Right.

[120] And like how things like that were working back then where these countries are like, you showed up from where and you think you're going to do what?

[121] Like, it's amazing.

[122] Okay.

[123] I'll keep watching.

[124] And also, can I just tell you that there's a woman named Anna Sawai who plays Lady Mariko, who's amazing, really good.

[125] Hirouki Sonata, he plays the main lord, great, fun to watch.

[126] But the lead guy that's like the British guy that shows up there, his name's Cosmo Jarvis.

[127] Yeah, that's the best name.

[128] And I kind of want to watch him for the rest of his life.

[129] I'm like, oh my, who's this guy?

[130] he's there fighting everybody and almost dying it's great you love those brits yes and then really quick upcoming the great nestor carbonell is going to i just saw down here that he's in the cast where i'm like where the hell is he because he's been in so many things that you love and you've seen him for a long time for example you're so good with names i know he was originally on suddenly Susan.

[131] But then he was, he was on Lost.

[132] Oh, yeah.

[133] Really beautiful Latino man. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[134] You know that guy.

[135] He's in it, too.

[136] So I was like, I read all those names off my phone, by the way.

[137] Just exciting.

[138] I love an exciting series to get into and wait for.

[139] Yeah, and to be in it.

[140] Yeah.

[141] I have another podcast to recommend.

[142] I have been binging it, and it's a sober, it's a sobriety podcast.

[143] And in my ever -evolving relationship with alcohol, I found that information, knowledge about what alcohol does to your mind and body, as well as someone who's also been through that, you know, who can empathize and has their own personal experience.

[144] Those two things have really helped me attach to a theory and a mindset.

[145] So this podcast I randomly found called Sober Powered.

[146] It's hosted by a gal named Jill.

[147] She's a scientist.

[148] She's a chemist.

[149] She's a sober person.

[150] And it's like 15 minute little snippets of like what alcohol does to your body and how to go to your first sober party.

[151] And, you know, just like in between all of those things.

[152] And she also imparts her own personal experience, which is so helpful.

[153] It's been really incredible.

[154] So check that out, sober powered.

[155] Little just like quick episodes, you're in, you're out.

[156] That's so good to be able to listen to something and kind of have a go -to something that you put on.

[157] and you're like, oh, this is going to give me a little jolt.

[158] Yeah.

[159] This is going to give me a little new perspective that I want, but haven't been able to find before.

[160] Right.

[161] Little boosts.

[162] I love that.

[163] Yeah.

[164] Should we do exactly right corner?

[165] I think we should.

[166] Okay.

[167] Hey, guys, we have a podcast network.

[168] I feel like this makes it sound like we pre -recorded this when I give this spiel.

[169] This is an ongoing conversation.

[170] This is real, but let's do our fakest voices as we read this right now.

[171] Super professional.

[172] Hey, guys.

[173] Hey, guys.

[174] Yeah, we have a podcast network.

[175] It's called Exactly Right.

[176] Here are some highlights.

[177] On this week's episode of 10th, Volgmore Wicked Season 10, Kate Winkler -Dawson takes us to Colonial Williamsburg, Karen's favorite location, where we meet two men.

[178] One is holding a sword, and the other is dead.

[179] And you've got to listen now to find out if it was murder or self -defense.

[180] And then on that's messed up in SVU podcast, Karen and Lisa discuss an episode of SVU from 2013 called Internal Affairs, and they have a chat with actor Mark Manchalka, who guest starred as an NYPD officer.

[181] Also, the newest MFM animated masterpiece is here.

[182] It's called The Zipper from episode 381 and features Karen.

[183] That's me. And a cursed carnival ride and a possible future astronaut.

[184] It is freaking hilarious.

[185] Go to YouTube .com slash exactly right to watch every single one of Nick Terry's hilarious animations.

[186] Oh, and we really want to thank you for helping us spread the word about another exciting podcast coming out here on exactly right.

[187] Last week we announced it, The Butterfly King, and it premieres on March 21st.

[188] The trailer's already on the true crime charts.

[189] That's because of you guys.

[190] Thank you so much for that support.

[191] It's co -produced with our partners from Blanchard House.

[192] They're British.

[193] We're really trying to impress them.

[194] Please help us make the British people think we're cool.

[195] And please, if you are on Instagram, give us a follow at my favorite murder, because we have some really fun new videos that our team is creating based on each episode.

[196] Look at us on social media.

[197] Please.

[198] Look at us.

[199] And look at Caprice, our new social media content creator.

[200] She's so good at it.

[201] She's so good at it.

[202] I know.

[203] It's great.

[204] Please follow.

[205] Very fun.

[206] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[207] Absolutely.

[208] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[209] Exactly.

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[222] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

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[225] Goodbye.

[226] this week.

[227] Are you ready to do this?

[228] Always.

[229] Thank God.

[230] Okay.

[231] This one I didn't really know anything about before I started reading this research.

[232] This is one of the most infuriating stories and one of the most upsetting stories.

[233] Oh, no. But ultimately, there is a silver lining.

[234] Thank God.

[235] Okay.

[236] I'm going to tell you today about the tragic murder of a young female soldier and the international outrage that followed her death.

[237] This case raised very serious discussion about the discrimination, harassment, and violence suffered by women, especially women of color in the U .S. military.

[238] This is the story of the murder of Vanessa Gian, her life and legacy, as well as her family's fight for justice, for Vanessa, and for every enlisted person.

[239] Wow.

[240] This is recent.

[241] This is during the lockdown, right?

[242] That's right.

[243] Shit, I remember reading this.

[244] Yeah.

[245] So the sources that were used on the story today are, there's a netball.

[246] Flicks documentary called I Am Vanessa Gien and a 2020 Houston Chronicle article entitled Portrait of a Fallen Soldier by Gabrielle Banks, Olivia P. Talit and Hannah Dellinger.

[247] And the rest of the sources are in our show notes.

[248] So in this story that I'm about to tell you, I refer to the army base that this takes place on as Fort Hood because that's what it was called at the time.

[249] But it has been renamed to Fort Cavazos after General Richard Edward Cavasso's.

[250] And, you know, sometimes those changes happen.

[251] And then you're like, I was like, well, I don't want to talk about the Confederate, you know, general loser that it was named after in the first place, which how did that happen?

[252] Right.

[253] But I did look up a little information on General Richard Cavazos.

[254] And I'll just tell you real quick, here's why he got picked.

[255] He is a Texas native and the Army's first four -star general of Hispanic descent.

[256] He was Mexican -American.

[257] He not only served in Korea, but then he went back and served in Vietnam.

[258] Wow.

[259] And during the course of battle, and I believe this was in a battle in Korea, his group was attacked by a way bigger, like, advancing group of enemies.

[260] And after the battle was done, he went and found five of his fellow soldiers who were all wounded, and he carried them one by one to safety.

[261] And so for that, he earned the Distinguished Service Cross.

[262] So I think people should know what the name has changed to before they start bitching about woke this or blah, blah, blah, that.

[263] Because I would say this guy is who anything should be named after.

[264] But obviously and especially a Texan army base.

[265] Okay.

[266] So the story begins in Houston, Texas in 1999.

[267] Vanessa is the second of six children, four daughters and two sons.

[268] born to Roelio and Gloria Guillen.

[269] Roelio and Gloria are first generation immigrants from Mexico.

[270] Roelio supports the family as a machine operator while Gloria raises the six children, full -time job, and then some.

[271] So from Vanessa's very first moments of life, she proves herself to be a fighter.

[272] According to a profile in the Houston Chronicle, after she was born, she spent nearly a month in the NICU being treated for breathing issues.

[273] But she made a full recovery.

[274] She grows into a gifted student and a talented athlete.

[275] Her teachers remember Vanessa as an excellent writer, and her track and soccer coaches remember all the time she'd show up early for practice to, quote, do a little extra training.

[276] So even though she's exceptional in many ways, Vanessa is also a typical teenage girl.

[277] She talks with her friends about boys.

[278] She gets in her head about her body and the way it looks.

[279] And despite being described as a very composed and strong young women, she does cry at least one time over a bad haircut.

[280] That's about as typical teenage girl as you can get, I would say.

[281] The tears I shed over my Demi Moore ghost haircut.

[282] Why?

[283] Why in the world would I made that choice for myself?

[284] One thing that does feel unique about Vanessa is that she figures out her life's calling at a very young age.

[285] In the documentary, I am Vanessa Gienn.

[286] Her mother Gloria says, quote, when she was 10, she told me, mom when I grow up I want to join the army I thought it was a child thing and she would forget and then when she was turning 18 she told me in the bedroom mom remember when I said I'd either join the army or become an astronaut and go to the moon I said you better go to the moon but she said I already enlisted oh yeah wow so in 2018 just two days after Vanessa graduates from high school she arrives in South Carolina for basic training like she went immediately yeah Once she completes basic training, she's shipped out to Virginia for more concentrated training in firearms repair.

[287] And then she's assigned to Fort Hood back in her native Texas, where she'll be working with the regimental engineer squadron as a weapons mechanic.

[288] The base is about three hours away from her family in Houston.

[289] When she arrives at Fort Hood on December 19, 2018, Vanessa discovers it's a massive army base.

[290] It's one of the largest in the United States, and it actually feels like its own mini -city.

[291] There's parks, there's grocery stores, restaurants, there's even a shopping mall.

[292] Shit.

[293] You didn't know that was a thing?

[294] I know.

[295] I didn't either.

[296] But Fort Hood has a somewhat notorious reputation.

[297] There have been two deadly mass shootings at Fort Hood.

[298] What?

[299] And it grabbed headlines for both drug and gun trafficking ring busts.

[300] Oh, my God.

[301] So, yeah.

[302] I mean, it's basically like a city.

[303] Yeah.

[304] with all the problems and a shopping mall.

[305] There's also a long history of sexual violence and misconduct at Fort Hood, including an unbelievable case of a sergeant named Gregory McQueen, who was convicted in 2015, of luring down on their luck female soldiers into a sex trafficking operation.

[306] Oh, my God.

[307] The Houston Chronicle reports that McQueen was once, ironically, and horrifically, quote, quote, tasked with coordinating his Fort Hood Battalion's sexual assault prevention program.

[308] Jesus fucking Christ.

[309] Yeah.

[310] Of course, the issue of sexual harassment in the military is not confined to Fort Hood.

[311] The Houston Chronicle reports that, quote, in 2019, military services received 7 ,825 formal reports of sexual assault.

[312] But a survey found that an estimated 20 ,500 active due.

[313] duty service members experienced sexual assault in 2018, according to that same report, end quote.

[314] And it's been stated by high -ranking government officials that even among those statistics, Fort Hood has the highest number of sexual assault cases.

[315] Wow.

[316] So up until this point, Vanessa has excelled at boot camp.

[317] She genuinely enjoyed her training in Virginia.

[318] But according to her family who see her just about every weekend when she's off duty, Vanessa does not like Fort Hood, and she's vocal about it.

[319] The Houston Chronicle says that Vanessa, quote, complained that it was dirty, the food was bad, and the officers were mean, end quote.

[320] And that's a person who wanted to go into the Army and who's been through basic training where they are the meanest that they will ever be to you, I would imagine.

[321] And it's really saying something.

[322] So in the fall of 2019, Vanessa temporarily leaves Fort Hood for routine combat training in the Mojave Desert.

[323] According to her mother, Gloria, when she returns to Texas, she's a different person.

[324] Gloria remembers asking Vanessa what's wrong, and she replies, quote, I'm tired, mommy, I just want to get out of the army, end quote.

[325] Then in February of 2020, Vanessa tells her mom that she's being sexually harassed by a sergeant.

[326] But despite Gloria's pleas, Vanessa will not tell her the man's name.

[327] When Gloria asks if Vanessa's reported this harassment, Vanessa tells her, quote, no, they laugh at us there.

[328] They laugh at everyone.

[329] They don't believe us.

[330] We are nobody.

[331] End quote.

[332] So now we fast forward to April of 2020.

[333] COVID -19 is raging.

[334] But because Vanessa is considered an essential worker, she's still regularly completing her shifts at Fort Hood.

[335] And then on April 22nd, she technically has a day off, but she gets a last -minute text message asking her to come in to work on something.

[336] She figures she'll be able to knock this job out quickly, so she heads to work wearing her civilian clothes.

[337] In her mind, it's like maybe she was thinking she was just going to be there for 15 minutes and then go to her day off.

[338] The first inkling that something was wrong comes within hours around midday.

[339] Vanessa has recently gotten engaged to a man in Houston named Juan Cruz, and Juan and Vanessa talk every single day at lunchtime as a way of kind of like coping with being in this long -distance relationship.

[340] But on April 22nd, when Juan calls Vanessa, she doesn't pick up.

[341] He calls again, there's no answer, and she isn't responding to his texts.

[342] In fact, the text he's sending aren't even being labeled as delivered, which strikes Juan is very strange, like Vanessa's phone is either off or it's out of service.

[343] So he just keeps trying to get in touch with her, but as the day goes by, his confusion turns into panic.

[344] Juan calls Vanessa's sister Myra, who also can't reach her sister.

[345] They notice that Vanessa hasn't been posting on any of her social media accounts.

[346] So around 9 p .m., Myra calls Fort Hood directly and asks if anyone has seen her sister.

[347] But no one is able to give Myra any information on where Vanessa might be, other than that she was last seen at the base around midday.

[348] So that night, Myra and Juan get into the car and make the three -hour drive from Houston to Fort Hood.

[349] They arrive around 3 a .m., but they're not allowed to enter the base until the next morning.

[350] So they have to get a hotel.

[351] They get up right away and around 9 a .m., Myra and Juan are finally allowed to meet with military police.

[352] But instead of this bringing any answers or any comfort, it just causes more concern.

[353] Myra says, quote, my interaction with the military police was a joke.

[354] The first sergeant told me, oh, do you want to go to her room and see if anything's missing?

[355] And I thought about it, and I was just like, if it were to be part, God forbid, of an investigation, he shouldn't be letting me in there.

[356] Sure.

[357] I love that she knows that.

[358] I love that she knows that.

[359] Of course.

[360] And I'm furious that he either doesn't know that or doesn't care.

[361] Right.

[362] It's such a leftover, like, early 70s true crime story thing of like, oh, I'll just do what's convenient in this moment as opposed to what's good for this investigation.

[363] Right.

[364] This is probably whatever I think.

[365] it is because I'm jumping to conclusions, so I don't really care how it's treated.

[366] Right.

[367] So, Myra and Juan learn a few concerning facts, like that Vanessa's car is still parked at the base and that she's left behind a few personal effects like her dorm keys and her ID card in an armory room.

[368] And yet, her phone is nowhere to be found.

[369] When Myra asks the officer where her sister's keys and ID card are, she's surprised to learn that the officer is casually holding on to both in his pocket.

[370] Okay.

[371] So Myra says, quote, I was just so confused.

[372] This all should have been turned in.

[373] If this is the police that I'm supposed to trust to look for my sister, game over.

[374] End quote.

[375] What a horrible, like, stomach drop moment that must have been.

[376] Yeah, like there's nothing you can do.

[377] Like, what do you do next?

[378] Right.

[379] So when it becomes clear that Myra and Juan aren't getting anywhere with the military police, they head back to Houston.

[380] Luckily, Myra and her family know that time is of the essence in a missing person's case.

[381] So her friends and family begin posting her picture and her information all over social media, encouraging others to repost and share.

[382] They get no help from the Fort Hood investigators who don't seem to be taking any immediate action to get any information out to the public.

[383] So the Gians decide they're going to have to do it for themselves.

[384] One would later say, quote, I was going to the gas station.

[385] to stores to the bus stops posting missing signs for the love of my life it's a nightmare every minute that passes was killing me inside slowly end quote oh my god i can't imagine so a week goes by with no sign of veneza and at this point the u .s army criminal investigation division or they're called cid has been looped in they handle investigations within the military and they operate on their own system versus like funneling it through the the civilian justice system.

[386] At this point, the Gians get the sense that they're being shut out of whatever this military investigation might be.

[387] They are not being given any updates.

[388] They basically feel like they're being ignored.

[389] For example, when Gloria reportedly tells the military police that her daughter admitted to her that she was being sexually harassed by a superior on base, and she knew that was a very important detail.

[390] And she knew that if anyone could look into that exact detail it would be these military investigators it should be right they should have run to that person right but according to the geans that information is just shrugged off so of course vanessa's family their fury is growing in tandem with their anxiety and like when i read that line i was like yeah so's mine like what in the fuck if you have a missing person's case where you're not sure about anything but you're being given these clues.

[391] Yeah.

[392] Why are you not, A, doing something about it and be telling the family what's happening?

[393] Totally.

[394] Totally.

[395] Vanessa's sister Lupe says, quote, because of the frustration of not having answers, we decided if no one wants to talk to us, we're going to talk to them.

[396] We started protesting the first week of May out in front of Fort Hood.

[397] Nice.

[398] So Vanessa's friends and family, left with no other options, show up at the Army base with posters and with chance, ready to put pressure on the military investigators to do a better job looking for Vanessa.

[399] Around this time, Myra also reaches out to a lawyer named Natalie Kowam, who has extensive experience working with the military.

[400] And Natalie agrees to take the family's case pro bono.

[401] She says, quote, of course, our most important thing was to find Vanessa.

[402] I saw that the military did not give a damn.

[403] They're going to railroad this family.

[404] And that's when I said, we need to do our own investigation.

[405] And quote.

[406] And even if like the intention is not to railroad the family, even if there was an investigator with a heart of gold, basic actions were not being taken.

[407] And the family's being treated like it's no big deal when someone is gone.

[408] Yeah.

[409] That someone is their employee and their service member.

[410] Yeah, for sure.

[411] So the Gians reach out to as many people as they can think of for help, including a nonprofit called Texas Ecusearch, which is a volunteer -based organization.

[412] that helps with search and recovery efforts for missing people.

[413] At that time, the Gians keep the public informed about the case by constantly posting on social media on all platforms.

[414] They also have dedicated pages tracking Vanessa's case in real time.

[415] So then Myra gets an idea.

[416] Because of the total lack of transparency in the official CID investigation, she's like, we should take the opposite approach.

[417] So Myra says, quote, my mom thought it was very important to point out, Vanessa's sexual harassment but basically the military investigators ignored it I asked myself one night when I couldn't sleep should I post this or not I mean it is the military what if I get in trouble but I decided to post it mm -hmm and quote so Myra publishes several posts that mention her sister's sexual harassment claims and not long after her sister Lupe tells her a hashtag has popped up online where members of the military are sharing harrowing stories of being harassed, abused, and assaulted while enlisted.

[418] And that hashtag is hashtag, I am Vanessa Gehan.

[419] Wow.

[420] So this hashtag goes viral, and it quickly transforms into an online community.

[421] This is a quote from the Houston Chronicle, quote, within two weeks of its formation, a private Facebook group called I Am Vanessa Gean attracted 12 ,000 female military members.

[422] who posted about abuse they had suffered, end quote.

[423] Incredible.

[424] Right.

[425] Then what started as a hashtag becomes a movement.

[426] Demonstrations are held in places like Washington, D .C. and Los Angeles.

[427] Posters with Vanessa's face on them are spotted as far away as Egypt.

[428] Chills.

[429] Right?

[430] And in her native Houston, this one gets me. 20 murals, one for each year of Vanessa's life, are painted throughout the city in her honor by local artists.

[431] But even as this wave of public support rises, the Gians still have no idea what's happening in the investigation.

[432] Yeah, wow.

[433] In early June, so this happened at the end of April.

[434] In early June, officials at Fort Hood finally hold a press conference.

[435] And in it, they acknowledge Vanessa's disappearance, and they state their belief that foul play is, in fact, involved.

[436] For the family, it's at best, underwhelming.

[437] Vanessa's fiancé Juan says, quote, I was like, it's about time they said it.

[438] We've been told nothing.

[439] So they actually were told one thing.

[440] One of the detectives takes the opportunity to deny full stop that Vanessa was the victim of sexual harassment.

[441] He actually says, quote, we've interviewed hundreds of people to include all acquaintances and coworkers of Ms. Guyan.

[442] There's no allegation whatsoever that she's been sexually assaulted or harassed.

[443] and any hint of information that was sexual harassment was completely looked at without any credible information, end quote.

[444] Yeah, because you can't talk to her because she's fucking missing.

[445] But also, you have people in a very strict and regimented system of a pecking order -based system.

[446] Right.

[447] The people at the bottom are the ones who are probably most likely going to be harassed or assaulted.

[448] Right.

[449] And they have the most to lose.

[450] They have the most to lose, and there's no internal system set up to do anything if it happens anyway.

[451] And here's a great example of that is you saying that didn't happen.

[452] You saying definitively that that didn't happen.

[453] Who exactly are you trying to clear in saying that?

[454] Right.

[455] That's an interesting thing to ask yourself as the speaker.

[456] Why would that be a thing that's so important when you have no answers?

[457] Yeah.

[458] The point is that she's missing, not that you need to clear yourself.

[459] Not that a thing that is unreported because of the dangerous aspect of it.

[460] Right.

[461] Like, it's just such an ignorant, like, you know what?

[462] I talk to the boys.

[463] We say no. Right.

[464] Huh.

[465] Okay.

[466] So, of course, after this, Vanessa's loved ones are furious.

[467] They made a statement during the press conference announcing that she's missing and that foul play is suspected.

[468] And then they accused, tacitly accused Vanessa of lying about her sexual harassment experience.

[469] So after this press conference, Vanessa's mom, Gloria, gives an impassioned speech to the public where she says, quote, Why until now are they making this show of searching for my daughter?

[470] Why now?

[471] I demand justice and respect for me and my daughter, a soldier that enlists in the military to serve her country and all of us.

[472] Because God forbid she has found dead, I will shut down this base.

[473] Love you.

[474] The only reason I just made that.

[475] sound of laughing is because I'm trying not to cry.

[476] That's amazing.

[477] Like the chutzpah.

[478] Oh, my God.

[479] We need more moms giving speeches into public address systems with this energy when that bullshit takes place.

[480] Totally.

[481] Okay.

[482] So here's the behind the scenes information that the Army CID was compiling this entire time.

[483] There is a suspect in Vanessa's missing person's case and his name is Aaron Robinson.

[484] What we know about Aaron is that he's a 20 -year -old armorer at Fort Hood.

[485] He is not in Vanessa's chain of command, so he isn't the predatory sergeant that she told her mother about.

[486] But we also know that Aaron and Vanessa crossed paths on April 22nd, the day she went missing.

[487] Investigators learned from Vanessa's phone markers and text messages that she agreed to help Aaron confirm the serial numbers on some weapons that morning.

[488] This doesn't seem to be the reason that she went into work that day.

[489] Aaron asked her for help once she was on site.

[490] And Aaron is the last person known to have interacted with Vanessa before she disappeared.

[491] So Army investigators speak with Aaron multiple times after Vanessa vanishes.

[492] He tells them that on the night of April 22nd, he worked a full day and then he went home and spent the rest of the night with his 22 -year -old girlfriend, Sicily Aguilar.

[493] Aaron claims to have left his house just once that evening to sign onto a work computer for some sort of training of some kind, but this story quickly falls apart when on May 18th investigators speak to two different witnesses.

[494] On the day Vanessa went missing, both of these witnesses saw Aaron, quote, pulling a large, tough box with wheels that appeared very heavy in weight out of the arms room where he worked, end quote.

[495] seen putting this box into his car and speeding away.

[496] So investigators search Aaron's cell phone and they see that Aaron's made several calls to Cecily on April 22nd, making them wonder what the couple was discussing at that time on the day of Vanessa's disappearance.

[497] And then on June 30th, a few weeks after that CID press conference, contractors working on a fencing project stumble upon human remains.

[498] They're found near the Leon.

[499] River, which is about 30 miles away from Fort Hood, and when they check Aaron's phone records, they place him in this exact spot on the night she disappeared.

[500] So the same day the remains are discovered, the Army police confront Cecily.

[501] She admits that Aaron actually did confess to murdering Vanessa in the arms room with a hammer before moving her body off base in that heavy box.

[502] How do you get that confession and then keep moving on with your life?

[503] I guess if he was abusive and she was scared of him, then that would make sense.

[504] I don't know.

[505] I don't know that that's it.

[506] But well, here, you'll hear about it.

[507] Okay, okay.

[508] Aaron then took Vanessa's body out to the Leon River site and asked Cecily to help him dismember and dispose of her body and she agreed to help him.

[509] Yeah.

[510] Incredibly, despite Cessaly's confession and the strong circumstantial evidence against Aaron, the military police do not arrest him.

[511] What?

[512] In fact, as journalist Heather Osborne says, quote, the day that Fennesse's remains were discovered, Aaron Robinson was actually being held for breaking COVID protocols.

[513] Army investigators failed to let the soldier who was in charge of looking over Robinson know that he was also suspected of killing Guillain.

[514] Basically, he just had like a. chaperone with him.

[515] He was being held, but it wasn't like a jail situation.

[516] They didn't take his phone away from him.

[517] And because he had been following news updates on Vanessa's case, Aaron watches in real time as they announce that they are in fact Vanessa's remains that were discovered and they've now been identified.

[518] Oh my God.

[519] Aaron realizes that the walls are closing in on him.

[520] So on July 1st, 2020, the day after Vanessa's remains are found and identified.

[521] Aaron manages to get away from his army chaperone, obtains a gun, gets into a car, drives several miles off base, and kills himself.

[522] To this day, it's unclear what Aaron's motive actually was, but his girlfriend, Cessley, eventually offers one.

[523] She claims that Vanessa became aware of Aaron and Cessley's relationship after seeing Cessley's picture on Aaron's cell phone's lock screen.

[524] It turns out Cessley was married to a different Fort Hood soldier at the time.

[525] time, and she claims that Erin was afraid that Vanessa would report him for, quote, violating the army's fraternization rules, which would have likely led to some sort of disciplinary action against him.

[526] But many people, including Vanessa's family, do not buy that story.

[527] As Myra has said, quote, my sister was a very responsible person that would not meddle into Robinson and Aguilar's alleged relationship.

[528] End quote.

[529] The family continues to suspect that predatory sexual behavior, in this case, not from a sergeant, but from Aaron Robinson, played a role in Vanessa's death.

[530] Yeah.

[531] But that's the family's theory.

[532] So that's theory.

[533] But it does not make sense.

[534] If you are so scared of that secret coming out, why would you put her on your lock screen when she's the wife of a co -worker?

[535] Totally.

[536] Nonsensical.

[537] Yeah.

[538] Eventually an army investigation will conclude that Vanessa.

[539] had been sexually harassed by 13 different army colleagues, disproving the statement made by the detective at the press conference who defiantly said that all claims of sexual harassment had been, quote, completely looked at without any credible information, end quote.

[540] I mean, the shaking of my head just won't stop.

[541] I mean, it's this kind of thing that is we talk about so much, we have talked about for eight years, that women know, that women talk about, but it's like, how long does this bullshit continue?

[542] Yeah, it's pervasive.

[543] It's in every fucking aspect of our society.

[544] And it's something that we have to deal with since we were children and every day.

[545] And you're going to go and talk about how it's disproven.

[546] There is no sexual harassment.

[547] Yeah, it just doesn't, you know what?

[548] None of the boys here are like that.

[549] So, hey, stop trying to threaten their future and their livelihoods.

[550] It's that shit.

[551] And it is bros before ho's energy, brain capacity.

[552] Instead of like, hey, how about we don't have predators?

[553] How about we don't cover for predators?

[554] How about we don't act like predators?

[555] How about that?

[556] Pretty basic shit.

[557] Right.

[558] Get your shit together.

[559] Go to fucking therapy.

[560] Live a fucking day in our lives and see what it's like for every single fucking woman out there.

[561] But also just like, how about?

[562] the culpability of men pulling that into the conversation as opposed to immediately being like actually she was lying at the press conference talking about that she's missing it's like if you're not one of those assholes then fucking speak up yeah and be a fucking ally and be assholes to the dudes around you that are those assholes yes speak up when you see fucking something there's like eight dudes that are like, we're trying, like weeping openly.

[563] Oh, my God.

[564] So frustrating.

[565] Yeah.

[566] At the same time, Army investigators continued to deny that Aaron Robinson was one of Vanessa's harassers.

[567] So there's just no way he was one of the third, one more.

[568] No, he murdered her, definitely.

[569] He definitely murdered her violently and dismembered her body and disposed of it.

[570] But no. No. That couldn't have been it.

[571] Sorry, no. But that's one step too far.

[572] Very strange kind of thinking, very illogical thinking.

[573] Absolutely.

[574] Very victim -blamey thinking.

[575] So in August of 2023, Cecily Aguilar is sentenced to 30 years in prison for her role in Vanessa's murder.

[576] So now that's three young lives lost.

[577] Just for what?

[578] So Vanessa's sister Lupe said, quote, I just have to acknowledge that I may never know the answer of what happened to my sister.

[579] End quote.

[580] As painful as that is, Lupe also sees how Vanessa's story has quite literally changed the world.

[581] Lupe says, quote, seeing people coming from all over made us have that piece of hope.

[582] It kept growing and growing.

[583] From Houston, Austin, San Antonio to California, there are so many murals in Mexico where my parents were born.

[584] end quote it's because of the resilience the hard work and the fearless advocacy of the Gian family that Vanessa's legacy is now so enormous she's a symbol for an entire movement that aims to support victims of sexual violence in our military ranks and ultimately stamp out such violence altogether her fiance Juan has added that quote I see her murals and I say to myself damn this is reality she is no longer here on the other hand murals aren't made for just anyone that brought a bit of peace to my heart end quote in 2021 president biden signs the national defense authorization act into law the i am vanessa gean act lives inside that legislation and went into effect on january 1st 2022 this is now a federal law that protects those who file harassment or assault charges against their military colleagues from retaliation.

[585] It also aims to remove conflict of interest from those investigations by handing them over to independent investigators instead of keeping them within the military's chain of command.

[586] Nice.

[587] Right?

[588] Into law.

[589] Yeah.

[590] Amazing.

[591] These are huge victories.

[592] They were not won easily.

[593] And the Guyan's attorney, Natalie Kuan, is quoted as saying, we literally moved a mountain here.

[594] Huge.

[595] To this day, the Guians continue fighting for justice in Vanessa's name.

[596] Myra, who has since expressed interest in a career in politics, has said, quote, it's a miracle that we were able to do such a thing after so many decades of actual lawmakers trying, end quote.

[597] Wow.

[598] Yeah.

[599] And she also says, quote, Vanessa's always been, I think, the bravest of all of us.

[600] She had a lot of courage.

[601] The advice she used to give me was, if you want something, go for it.

[602] And that's the story of the tragic and senseless death of Vanessa Gien and the movement that tragedy inspired.

[603] Holy shit.

[604] Right?

[605] Oh, my God.

[606] Yeah.

[607] Yeah.

[608] So sad that something so traumatic and awful has to happen for something to be put into motion that shouldn't even have to be a second thought.

[609] It just makes me look back on that.

[610] of 2020 and it was like something cracked open in the realest way I will never forget like do you remember that aerial shot of fucking Hollywood Boulevard and all those people marching because of George Floyd being murdered by the police and people just being like yeah no we're not enough enough yeah no like all of that energy that people have had like in their minds and hearts I think genuinely but didn't know where to put it, it's like suddenly people are figuring out where to put it.

[611] People are figuring out where it goes and how to place it and that they can do it.

[612] Yeah.

[613] And like that idea that just that mom being like, I'll shut this fucking army base down.

[614] Yeah.

[615] She did.

[616] It got turned into a law.

[617] They no longer get to be the investigators if the investigation is about like their boys.

[618] They change the name of the fucking base.

[619] The base.

[620] That's, I mean, that's the attitude.

[621] you we all need to put into into all of it.

[622] Activism.

[623] Yeah, into all of it.

[624] My God.

[625] Incredible.

[626] Great story.

[627] Great telling of it.

[628] Thank you.

[629] Real tip of the hat to Alejandra Keck and Hannah Crichton and Marin McClashen because they do really hard work finding these stories for me. After eight years, we do a lot of digging.

[630] And I always say things like, please try to find me one that has something at the end where it gives people a direction to look toward and like what a perfect example yeah of one of those kinds of stories or i'll say to them i don't know if i should do that one that one's rough and then they're like if you tell it this way or if you do it the way you do it it's an important story to tell and that definitely helps me when we do some really fucked up stories like that they help us i have one that's not like that at all are we about to take a left turn i mean the leftist turn the i'm really glad there's some ad break in between our stories to just kind of balance it out a little bit, you know?

[631] Ad break goes here.

[632] Yeah.

[633] If you ever get mad at the ad breaks, like sometimes we need them.

[634] Yeah, that's true.

[635] Also, this is a free podcast.

[636] Okay.

[637] So, why I'm getting mad at people?

[638] Why am I getting mad at people?

[639] We're just, it's, our emotions are high.

[640] Okay.

[641] Today I'm going to cover the heist of one of history's most revered works of art. Did you know that the Mona Lisa got fucking stolen before?

[642] No, I did not.

[643] I'll tell you.

[644] That's not true.

[645] It's so true.

[646] And this is so interesting to me because this theft, the stealing of the Mona Lisa, turned it into what it is today.

[647] The popularity that has today is a direct result, some would say, of this theft.

[648] Because the only people who thought this was a masterpiece back then were a niche group of Renaissance art scholars beginning in the 1860s, which was 300 years after it was painted.

[649] But the general public was like, Yeah, whatever.

[650] They're like, she's not even wearing mascara.

[651] I don't look at that picture.

[652] Who is she?

[653] And where her eyebrows is a direct quote?

[654] Was she looking at me like that?

[655] And where are her eyebrows?

[656] She's not even snatched.

[657] It was so low on the popularity list when it was in the Louvre that it took a full 28 hours before anyone even noticed it had been stolen.

[658] Oh my God.

[659] In 1911.

[660] So it wasn't for the media sensation.

[661] that the stuff generated, the Mona Lisa may have just been another walk by in the Louvre.

[662] I love this.

[663] I love when the internet explained to us why we like or love things.

[664] Yeah.

[665] Or like you should stop loving it because here's the story behind it.

[666] Right.

[667] The etymology.

[668] Yeah.

[669] You know, stop buying Kellogg's because of this.

[670] You got it.

[671] Oh yeah.

[672] You know, whatever it is.

[673] Did you see their little stock ticker is going straight down into hell?

[674] Like people are boycotting the living fuck out of Kellogg's.

[675] It's great.

[676] Love it.

[677] By the way, Cheerios is General Mills.

[678] Don't you worry, my Cheerios Hive.

[679] Rise up Cheerios Hives.

[680] Listen, guys, sometimes the only thing those fucking megalomaniacs understand, not sometimes, always, is your money and where you decide to put it.

[681] Yes.

[682] Take a stance with your money.

[683] Boycotts and labor movements are the action required.

[684] Because, you know, I voted today for, you know, general elections.

[685] And I said to Vince, this feels like when you're hydroplaining and you're supposed to turn into the skid, you know.

[686] So it's not really helping.

[687] It's helping.

[688] It's helping.

[689] It doesn't feel good.

[690] It doesn't feel right.

[691] It feels like it's not really doing anything.

[692] But you're actually not supposed to, you know, not voting would be yanking the wheel the other direction.

[693] Not voting can't be it because you can look at everybody and go, they didn't do this right.

[694] They're doing this wrong, blah, blah, blah.

[695] But you can't, we cannot turn this country over to Trump Republicans ever again.

[696] I think everyone understands that.

[697] This will be the last election, you guys.

[698] If that happens, I guarantee.

[699] This will be the last election.

[700] And as pissed off as you are and as valid as your reasons are.

[701] Yeah, he's fucking old as shit.

[702] It's scary.

[703] And his decisions aren't great.

[704] You're not voting for him.

[705] You're voting for the party.

[706] You're voting for us to have a future at all.

[707] Yeah.

[708] Hey, let's donate some money right now, shall we?

[709] Yo, good idea.

[710] Should it be a food bank?

[711] Brilliant.

[712] I love it.

[713] Pick a fucking, pick a, the Alejandra, pick a fucking topic.

[714] I'll look some up.

[715] Okay.

[716] A nice national food fund, yeah, or something along those lines.

[717] Love it.

[718] Nice one, Georgia.

[719] Thank you all.

[720] Anyways, this is the story of the theft of the Mona Lisa, this podcast.

[721] I love it.

[722] That's what we're talking about.

[723] I love this podcast.

[724] That's what we're talking about.

[725] This is my favorite podcast.

[726] Okay, the main sources used in today's story include an NPR article written by an unnamed NPR staff writer and a...

[727] Oh, that was me. That was mine.

[728] Okay, great.

[729] Good job.

[730] It was really good.

[731] It's title.

[732] The The Thetha made the Mona Lisa a masterpiece.

[733] And a New York Times article written by Sam Roberts and the other sources are in our show notes.

[734] Great.

[735] Okay.

[736] I'm going to tell you first about the Mona Lisa because I don't know how much you know about it.

[737] And you should know some stuff about it before I tell you about it.

[738] I would love to recite just everything.

[739] that's on your piece of paper, I would love to just be saying to you right now.

[740] This is the part in the live episode where you stand up and start giving a lecture.

[741] The Mona Lisa was born in 1692.

[742] In Italy.

[743] Okay.

[744] So blah, blah, blah, Leonardo da Vinci.

[745] He's regarded as a genius.

[746] You know, he is a genius.

[747] Don't blah, blah, blah, Leonardo da Vinci.

[748] You're right.

[749] Not just for his art, Karen, but for his thoughts on everything from astronomy, your favorite, botany, cotography, and the human anatomy.

[750] He was the first one to think of a tank and airplanes.

[751] Oh, really?

[752] Yes.

[753] Oh, smart.

[754] I'm sorry I blah, blah to him.

[755] But his central focus is always on humanity.

[756] So in his paintings, he aims to create the most realistic depictions of human form as he possibly can.

[757] And this is most exemplified, of course, by his magnum opus, the Mona Lisa.

[758] I'm so mad.

[759] I have a great photo of me in like 2004 in front of the Mona Lisa.

[760] It's a really cool photo.

[761] but I don't want to message my ex -boyfriend to get it, so it's not happening.

[762] Is it a hard copy like an actual physical photo?

[763] No, but it's like early digital, like split phone digital, you know?

[764] Like the date is in the bottom right corner?

[765] Probably.

[766] That digital.

[767] And I'm probably remembering it wrong.

[768] I probably look terrible and I'm just like that in my mind it looks great.

[769] Okay, picture it.

[770] So believed to be modeled from an Italian noblewoman named Lisa del Jaconda, the Mona Lisa depicts a three -quarter, so abdomen -to -head.

[771] As you know, realistic -looking portrait of a woman on a 30 -inch by 21 -inch panel of white poplar wood.

[772] Those are called cowboy close -ups in TV.

[773] Really?

[774] Yeah.

[775] Waste to top of head.

[776] Wow.

[777] I don't know that.

[778] I'm going to be filled with random, fun information that I have to interrupt you with because I love when I know something.

[779] Okay.

[780] And those like Italy, you know a lot about Italy.

[781] So there's Italy stuff happening here.

[782] Although here's the thing I didn't know about Italy that somebody way back then would just have the plain old first name Lisa.

[783] I thought that was like a new name from the 70s 80s.

[784] It does give 70s 80s.

[785] It does.

[786] Lisa.

[787] Hey Lisa.

[788] Do you have any paintings that you like or?

[789] Hey Lisa.

[790] Can I buy some barley or whatever.

[791] He begins the painting in 1503 in Florence, Italy and continues working on it up into 15 .9.

[792] you know, take some time.

[793] In order to achieve the realistic look, he expertly uses a technique called spumado.

[794] Skumado.

[795] Smuvado.

[796] Which literally means vanished or evaporated in Italian.

[797] It's the use of gradual, imperceptible transitions from light to dark shades or colors instead of hard outlines to create smooth images.

[798] Don't really know what most of that means, but...

[799] I think it's like, you know, when you see like a painting of like the ocean and then the sky behind it.

[800] Ah, and it's phase.

[801] into kind of one.

[802] They don't go like pink, blue, or whatever.

[803] Like a child's rainbow drawing.

[804] What was the nun who would take you to art galleries all over the world?

[805] Sister Wendy.

[806] Sister Wendy.

[807] Guys, if you need to fall asleep to something, go to YouTube and find Sister Wendy's travels.

[808] Yeah, she is the greatest.

[809] Do you know she was self -educated?

[810] That's amazing.

[811] It's not like she didn't go to college or anything.

[812] That's amazing.

[813] Portraits of noble women aren't uncommon in the 16th century, but Da Vinci's approach sets itself apart and is seen as a revolutionary piece because the framing is different.

[814] Usually it's a full figure portrait that happens.

[815] And images of nobility tend to show off their like fancy ass clothes and jewels, but the Mona Lisa's clothing is dark and subdued.

[816] You know, she's just a normal human being.

[817] And that coupled with an out of focus background draws the viewer's attention to Mona Lisa's facial features, of course made more striking by her gaze.

[818] Back then when they would paint women, they would be looking away or down.

[819] But she has this, like, fucking defiant look into not the camera, but the painting.

[820] So it's like it's not submissive, which it usually was back then.

[821] Mona Lisa is the painting version of somebody going, what?

[822] Yeah.

[823] She coined the phrase, bitch, I said what I said.

[824] She is standing on business.

[825] That's a new one I've learned recently.

[826] She stands on business.

[827] Ooh, I like that.

[828] So the Mona Lisa winds up in the possession of Da Vinci's assistant named Saleh, just before Slay, just before Da Vinci's death in 1519.

[829] So in 1518, Salé sells the Mona Lisa that we all know today to the king of France, King France the first.

[830] King France?

[831] No, King Francis.

[832] Oh.

[833] Close.

[834] Close.

[835] Close.

[836] Close.

[837] I was like, the first king of every country was named the prize.

[838] King England of England.

[839] King France of France.

[840] I swear this is just fucking macha and adaptogenic mushrooms.

[841] There's no canned wine happening right now.

[842] I know.

[843] I'm PG tips, but I did eat a little mini snickers before you got on there and get myself a little sugar shot.

[844] Wild.

[845] So some say that Da Vinci gifted the painting to King Francis himself while living in France and after working as the King's Court painter.

[846] But in any case, King Francis does receive the painting under amicable turdeme.

[847] So it's weird that the Italian painter, right, gave this one of his eventual masterpieces to France.

[848] But he did, and he did it in good faith.

[849] All was well.

[850] It belongs there.

[851] He didn't know how good he was maybe.

[852] Or he probably did, but like no one else did.

[853] Yeah.

[854] I mean, that's how I feel every time I finish a document.

[855] Here's one of my masterpieces.

[856] Oh, well.

[857] Give it away.

[858] Yeah.

[859] I guess I'll give it to you.

[860] We can't all know what our step's going to be worth in 300 years if we did.

[861] That's right.

[862] Just assume it's a masterpiece.

[863] and act as if.

[864] There you go.

[865] It's held at the palace Fontainebleau.

[866] Fontainebleau.

[867] But when Louis, the X1V, what's that?

[868] X1V is Louis the 19th.

[869] Is it?

[870] No. I think four days, yeah.

[871] Thank you.

[872] The famous one.

[873] He's the famous one.

[874] Oh, sure.

[875] Yeah.

[876] He all know him.

[877] It's Marie Antoinette's buddy.

[878] Oh, got to, got to get it.

[879] BFF.

[880] Sorry.

[881] I'm just stopped talking.

[882] I've gone off the rails.

[883] We both have.

[884] We both have.

[885] It was a tense first half of the show.

[886] So much emotion.

[887] Yeah.

[888] So much rage in my spinal fluid right now.

[889] Yeah.

[890] I'm trying to work it out other ways.

[891] Great.

[892] Let's do it.

[893] So he comes to power.

[894] He moves the painting to the Palace of Versa.

[895] And then in 1797, towards the end of the French Revolution, the Mona Lisa is finally moved to the Louvre where it remains today.

[896] There.

[897] Told you about the Mona Lisa.

[898] Let me tell you about the Louvre real quick.

[899] Just a little bit, not much.

[900] First opened in August 10th, 1793.

[901] It's a national museum located in Paris, France, blah, blah, blah.

[902] I took a nap inside of it once.

[903] No. Yeah.

[904] Get your blood sugar checked everyone.

[905] 24 -year -old Georgia was just like, I don't know why I'm tired all the time.

[906] And then like there's a marble bench over here in this alcove.

[907] I'm going to take a nap there.

[908] And I did.

[909] You did it?

[910] It was a great nap.

[911] How long for would you say?

[912] I'd say a good 20 minutes.

[913] It was just short for me. me. And like the echoing of the people, there were, you know, there were a lot of people.

[914] Yeah.

[915] The echoing of their voices in the marble chamber I was in was really soothing and calming.

[916] It was nice.

[917] Ooh, that's like a nice white noise.

[918] Yeah, it was a good nap.

[919] The museum is nearly 73 ,000 square meters of exhibition space.

[920] Bass collection of historic works makes it one of the most renowned art displays in the world.

[921] Have you been?

[922] You've been.

[923] To the lue.

[924] To the lue.

[925] Yes, but I didn't, I was very disappointed.

[926] when I saw the Mona Lisa, because it's so small.

[927] It's so much smaller than you think it's going to be.

[928] It's tiny baby.

[929] And then you kind of can't get close to it because everybody loves Mona.

[930] Right, right.

[931] So today, the Louvre is protected by a vast network of guards, of course, a highly advanced security system.

[932] But in the early 1900s, security for the museum was incredibly lax, even when taking the lack of modern technology into account.

[933] They were chill.

[934] They were casual.

[935] They're French.

[936] Yeah, they're French.

[937] The public are admitted to enter an exit.

[938] at the museum without undergoing any sort of search.

[939] And an ongoing photography project conducted by the museum at the time allows for hired photographers to grab a painting off the wall, bring it upstairs to the roof, because that's where they can clearly get a good photograph of it under the sun.

[940] Photograph it and throw it off.

[941] Are you fucking joking me?

[942] Hey, grab whatever you need.

[943] Let's get these catalog, you know.

[944] You should wear gloves, but don't worry about it.

[945] That's no big deal.

[946] Right, right.

[947] And there's perhaps no person who understands this lack of security that the Louve has and the vulnerabilities more than a handyman name, Vincenzo Perugia.

[948] Here he is.

[949] Love him.

[950] Let me tell you about him.

[951] This is just like a bunch of fucking stories about random things and they're all going to come together.

[952] It's going to lace right together.

[953] It's going to pop.

[954] Born on October 8, 1881 in Domenza, Varisi, Italy.

[955] He's Italian.

[956] Say that again.

[957] Domenza, Veraci, Italy.

[958] Okay.

[959] Vincenzo is an Italian patriot at heart, but as a young man, he moves to France in the early 1900s, makes his way to Paris, where he gets work as a handyman.

[960] And it's his handyman job that gains him entry into the Louvre.

[961] He is one of a team of men hired to install the protective glass casings over several of the paintings on display.

[962] You know, they all have them now pretty much, right?

[963] Yeah.

[964] So you don't get your sticky, gross touristy fingers all over everything.

[965] Yeah.

[966] this is when it started happening.

[967] And one of these paintings, of course, happens to be the Mona Lisa.

[968] So in the summer of 1911, Vincenzo and his crew are admitted into the Louvre's Salon Carey, which is the now iconic exhibition room where the Mona Lisa is.

[969] And they're there to encase the paintings in glass.

[970] So Vincenzo, of course, familiarizes himself with the building's layout, hours of operation, staff, and it's artwork.

[971] Like, you know, he's got other stuff on.

[972] his mind.

[973] It's an inside job.

[974] It always is.

[975] And he grew up in a working class family, so he was never a rich man, but he looks around the Louvre, and he has an idea to change that.

[976] So on Tuesday, August 22nd, 1911, the still -life artist comes in.

[977] He brings his easel and paint to paint the gallery exhibit in the Salon Carey.

[978] He sets up to paint the gallery, and then he notices that the Mona Lisa is not there.

[979] It's just four metal hooks.

[980] It's just four metal looks hanging on the wall where the painting was supposed to be.

[981] This guy, his name is Luis Bayroud.

[982] He goes to the museum guard.

[983] He's like, where's the Mona Lisa?

[984] The guard's like, well, it's probably upstairs on the roof getting photographed, as they all are.

[985] He's like, that sucks.

[986] Goes upstairs.

[987] Ask one of the photographers like, hey, when are you going to be done with Mona Lisa?

[988] And they're like, what are you talking about?

[989] We don't have it.

[990] And that's when they finally realize it's gone.

[991] They're like, check the cafeteria.

[992] No, she's not there.

[993] Oh, she's not there.

[994] So eventually 60 detectives alongside museum staff conduct an extensive search through every gallery, hallway, and pocket of the museum.

[995] And finally, after more than an hour of searching, police find a stairwell that leads to one of the coat rooms.

[996] And there, at the bottom of the stairs, lies the large 200 -pound frame that once housed the Mona Lisa.

[997] Ooh.

[998] But, of course, the painting is nowhere to be found.

[999] I'm sorry, real quick.

[1000] The frame weighed 200 fucking pounds that painting isn't that big.

[1001] I know.

[1002] And also you're like, so then how did one person do it on their own, right?

[1003] Oh, big guy, big musselie, a weightlifter did it.

[1004] Or he didn't do it alone.

[1005] Oh.

[1006] That's a mystery.

[1007] Yeah.

[1008] So the assistant curator of the Louvre and Benedite makes the announcement later that evening.

[1009] And by the next morning, Wednesday, August 23rd, 1911, the theft of the Mona Lisa is the top new story around the world, making headlines all the way.

[1010] to America on the New York Times.

[1011] It brings a great deal of embarrassment to France.

[1012] It's a country that takes great pride and its elevated culture.

[1013] And so having a painting stolen from their most prominent national museum feels like an affront to France's national identity.

[1014] They take it personally.

[1015] This is not who we are.

[1016] I don't know why.

[1017] It's an embarrassment.

[1018] Oh, that's good.

[1019] Thanks.

[1020] And again, even though Da Vinci's Italian, it's the French painting now.

[1021] So it's, you know.

[1022] I thought you're like, Da Vinci's Italian, so who cares?

[1023] So even though the Mona Lisa wasn't the Lou's most popular piece, the buzz of it being stolen and helps grow its popularity.

[1024] Then the French want answers.

[1025] So meanwhile, with a country and a frenzy and the world abuzz, the modest young handyman Vincenzo Perugia is holding on to the Mona Lisa.

[1026] Oh.

[1027] He fucking stole it.

[1028] He did it.

[1029] It's in his one -room hotel apartment in Paris.

[1030] near five kilometers from the Louvre.

[1031] And I don't think he expected it to be such a frenzy and such a big deal because it didn't steal the most famous painting there.

[1032] He didn't even steal a large painting.

[1033] So he's kind of flummoxed and he's like, well, I guess I can't sell this right now.

[1034] So he puts it in the false bottom of a trunk in his apartment and bides his time until he can sell it.

[1035] And he knows he's going to make a ton of cash once he does sell it.

[1036] And so he writes his father and he's like, yo, soon all our family troubles will be over.

[1037] But this is where it breaks down for me with like thieves and robbers and such.

[1038] Because if something is that valuable, a bunch of people give a shit about it.

[1039] That's kind of the general rule, especially things like this.

[1040] Yeah.

[1041] So like you have a fencer that can trade this and like you know the person?

[1042] No, he's just guessing.

[1043] He's just crossed his fingers and hoping.

[1044] He's like hoping that he sometimes.

[1045] someday meets a, like, nefarious art collector, you know?

[1046] Yeah.

[1047] That's a good point.

[1048] It's like, don't steal something that you think is worthless that other people don't unless you have a buyer already.

[1049] Yeah.

[1050] You need step two in the plan or the plan, there is no plan.

[1051] Right.

[1052] Exactly.

[1053] So yeah, he just holds on to it.

[1054] He just like drums up evidence by writing to his dad that he's going to come into money soon.

[1055] It's just like, not a good plan, you know?

[1056] So he lays low.

[1057] and hopes that the frenzy dies down.

[1058] All the while, the investigating detectives are looking at what little evidence they have.

[1059] They basically know that the Mona Lisa was last seen the morning of Monday, August 21st by two guards.

[1060] And the museum was conducting a routine deep cleaning, so it wasn't open to the public on this day.

[1061] And the frame has not been forced open or destroyed in any way, which means whoever took the painting knew how to take apart the frame.

[1062] So they know how the Mona Lisa may have been taken, but their primary question is now, of course, who would have done it.

[1063] I mean, suspects vary from J .P. Morgan himself.

[1064] The rebel artist Pablo Picasso and his gang of Mary fucking rebels.

[1065] I don't know.

[1066] And even the Kaiser, because it is right before World War I starts.

[1067] Oh, yeah.

[1068] So, of course, there's no evidence surfacing up.

[1069] And so the investigation continues for the next two years without any real leads and no new evidence, it peters out and runs cold.

[1070] Also, it seems like that list of suspects is like, Who are famous people that could have stolen it?

[1071] Or it's like, why would the Kaiser steal a painting from the Louve?

[1072] It's such a bad.

[1073] Yeah.

[1074] Is this where you see yourself in five years?

[1075] What are you talking about?

[1076] He's good.

[1077] He's fine.

[1078] Why would you do this?

[1079] With the buzz having died down a bit now, Vincenzo is ready to seize his fucking moment and sell the Mona Lisa to someone he happens upon, right?

[1080] Yeah.

[1081] But don't worry, he's smart enough to know that someone in France will probably rat on him.

[1082] So he moves back to his home country of Italy because he's like, they won't care there.

[1083] So it's here while he's in Florence, Italy, that he makes his first contact.

[1084] He finds an antiques dealer named Alfredo Jerry or Jerry, I don't know, on November 29th, 1913.

[1085] So this guy, Alfredo, was like, let's just make sure that this is authentic, first of all.

[1086] So he calls a director of a prominent Italian gallery and his name is Giovanni.

[1087] And so Alfred and Giovanni go to visit Vincenzo.

[1088] Vincenzo agrees, Vincenzo changes his name to Leonardo as a fake name for whatever reason, you know, get it.

[1089] And he agrees to show these men the Mona Lisa, which is stashed away in his hotel room.

[1090] And if they choose to buy the painting, he says he wants the equivalent of $100 ,000 U .S. dollars, which in today's money, guess how much he wants for this painting?

[1091] Three million.

[1092] What would you charge in 1913?

[1093] Oh, 1913.

[1094] For the Mona Lisa.

[1095] Where an espresso is five cents.

[1096] Yeah.

[1097] I guess a million, a million dollars?

[1098] Three million.

[1099] Oh, wait, I guessed correctly the first time.

[1100] You did?

[1101] Yes, roll the tape bag.

[1102] Shit, I didn't hear that.

[1103] I finally did it.

[1104] I finally nailed it.

[1105] But you have a good point.

[1106] It's like, well, what are they going to do with it?

[1107] I guess they probably have more contacts, right?

[1108] Where they, like, know people who will buy it.

[1109] Right, but anywhere it ends up, like, unless you plan to hide it in your secret library at like a weird perverted rich person would.

[1110] And it's very possible.

[1111] But it's like.

[1112] Yeah.

[1113] Someone nefarious puts it in their D -Day bunker and like shows off.

[1114] Goes downstairs, stares at it every once in a while.

[1115] There it is.

[1116] They agree to the money and they follow Vincenzo at, you know, as Leonardo to his hotel room.

[1117] They see the Mona Lisa and they confirm that is indeed the real one.

[1118] Can you imagine like there are.

[1119] excitement that they were like hiding.

[1120] It's there right next to like a picture of some weird plants.

[1121] You know what I mean?

[1122] Just like the worst art and maybe perhaps the best art of all time.

[1123] A hotel room art and the Mona Lisa.

[1124] But you know, this is so typical.

[1125] Of course they didn't move forward with the purchase.

[1126] They're like, we'll be right back.

[1127] We're going to get the money.

[1128] They call the police and the police come to his hotel room.

[1129] So instead of getting the great windfall, he had hoped for.

[1130] Vincenzo Perugia is placed under arrest.

[1131] Oh, we knew that was going to happen.

[1132] I know, right?

[1133] Because it's still there because we have it.

[1134] Because you can go see the Vodalisa.

[1135] Because she's back, baby.

[1136] She's back.

[1137] He owns up to the heist.

[1138] He gives his account of how he pulled it off.

[1139] The exact details are fuzzy, but we'll go with his later account of what went down.

[1140] He says at about 7 a .m. on Monday, August 21st, 1911.

[1141] He dressed in the museum staff uniform.

[1142] and waits for the guards protecting the salon care to leave their post for the cleaning duties and removes the glass casing.

[1143] And he knew how to do it because he fucking installed it, you know?

[1144] Right.

[1145] Lips the painting off the hooks, takes it to the stairwell, disassembles it and wraps it in a smock.

[1146] He tries slipping out a nearby door, but it's locked.

[1147] And so luckily, an unsuspecting maintenance worker walks by and it's like, oh, I got the door for you.

[1148] opens the door for Vincenzo, and he piece this out.

[1149] Wow.

[1150] As time goes on, though, new conflicting information about the heist throws the exact details of Vincenzo's account into question, and it's still kind of a question today.

[1151] Vincenzo claims he worked alone, but it seems virtually impossible that he could have removed the large, heavy glass casing and then lift that 200 -pound frame off the wall down the stairs without any assistance.

[1152] Right.

[1153] Later accounts claim that two brothers, and this is kind of believed at this point, named Vincenzo and Michel Lancelotti helped Vincenzo Perugia steal the painting.

[1154] But these two are never arrested and their potential role in the heist can't be confirmed.

[1155] But it seems likely that there was someone else helping.

[1156] Yeah, true.

[1157] I guess from the beginning, I pictured him to have a very strong upper body.

[1158] Yeah, he could definitely have a barrel chest, as they called it.

[1159] Yeah, he's like a strong man, but he works at the museum.

[1160] There's a mustache.

[1161] There's a mustache happening, you know.

[1162] Oh, God.

[1163] He's a cute Italian guy.

[1164] He's like a, you know, he's a Italian guy with hairy forearms and all the stuff you like.

[1165] But here's what he does, though.

[1166] He admits to the crime, but he swears his actions were not motivated by money, but rather by patriotism.

[1167] He says that he believed that the Mona Lisa is an Italian work of art and it belongs in Italy.

[1168] Yeah.

[1169] So he gets on the soapbox about wanting to restore pride in Italian culture.

[1170] He found it despicable that a piece painted by Italy's own Leonardo Da Vinci should live anywhere but it's home country.

[1171] So he spins it into this like, I'm the good guy.

[1172] I didn't do it for money, you know.

[1173] You're reviled by probably the whole world.

[1174] So you got to think as some other like, whose fault is it actually?

[1175] It's France's fault.

[1176] Yeah.

[1177] And actually Italy is like, okay, they rally around Vincenzo.

[1178] They hire him as a hero.

[1179] Hell yeah.

[1180] Meanwhile, the judge finds him guilty of the crime and deals him a year and 15 -day jail sentence.

[1181] But given the public's appreciation for his efforts in Italy, the sentence is shortened to just seven months.

[1182] If I was the prosecutor, I just would have been like, that's nice, real quick.

[1183] How come he didn't just bring it straight back?

[1184] What was the whole trying to sell it thing?

[1185] Right.

[1186] And again, the evidence of writing to his dad being like, we're going to be rich as shit, not like you're going to be so proud of me as an Italian.

[1187] Yes.

[1188] No. We're going to be rich as shit.

[1189] It was not about that.

[1190] Dear dad, when I repatriate the Mona Lisa, you were going to shit a brink.

[1191] Right.

[1192] We're still going to be poor, but we're going to be happy.

[1193] Oh, but we'll eat on pride.

[1194] So those letters do invalidate his claims of a purely patriotic motive.

[1195] Even still, Italy rejoices at momentarily having the Mona Lisa back in their possession.

[1196] The painting tours Italy.

[1197] They don't give it back to France right away.

[1198] This part I like.

[1199] It tours Italian galleries for the next month, and then they're like, all right, all right.

[1200] And they send it back to the Louvre on January 4th, 1914, and World War I breaks out.

[1201] And so it kind of all goes away.

[1202] So after his release, despite declaring his love for his country, Italy, Vincenzo finds his way back to Paris, where he eventually dies from complications of lead poisoning because he was a handyman and painter, remember, and all that lead is in there.

[1203] Yeah.

[1204] In 1925 at the age of 44.

[1205] Today, the Louvre sees about 7 to 9 million visitors every year, an estimated 80 % of which comes specifically to see the Mona Lisa.

[1206] Yeah.

[1207] That's why we're there.

[1208] Yeah.

[1209] What percentage of them are a little disappointed by its size?

[1210] I think 78, I would say.

[1211] Because of the high demand, patrons are allowed just 30 seconds each to view the painting.

[1212] Who's in charge of moving people along in all languages?

[1213] Truly.

[1214] How do you do it?

[1215] Oh my God.

[1216] Seriously.

[1217] Because when I went there and this was 1987, we walked up and we were literally like 50 people deep.

[1218] Yes.

[1219] We knew for a fact we were never going to get it anywhere close to it.

[1220] It looked like they put the Mona Lisa behind some transition lenses because it was kind of, the glass was kind of gray.

[1221] Yeah.

[1222] Yeah.

[1223] And I was just like, oh man. Listen, we are not saying don't go to the Louvre.

[1224] Like everything else blew my fucking mind.

[1225] It was incredible.

[1226] Go places.

[1227] For sure.

[1228] Great nap.

[1229] But you should still go just find the next mona lisa yes paint the next mona lisa be the next mona lisa okay so what was once an afterthought to anyone outside of art intelligentsia which is the mona lisa it was like some people thought it was great other people didn't even think about it it has become one of the most renowned paintings in the world and a lot of that is thanks to the man who stole it and that is the story of the theft of the Mona Lisa.

[1230] Amazing.

[1231] I loved that.

[1232] It got stolen.

[1233] It had everything I love.

[1234] Italians, stealing, and the Louvre.

[1235] Gaslight outside.

[1236] And gaslight.

[1237] Yeah.

[1238] And gaslighting people.

[1239] Oh, yeah.

[1240] By pretending you're patriotic instead of greedy.

[1241] Did you ever see if there's a really amazing picture?

[1242] And it's of this amazing honeycomb brick shape that they built over the David.

[1243] And I can't remember if it was before World War I or World War II, but basically because they couldn't get rid of everything inside the Louvre.

[1244] It must have been World War II, right?

[1245] Because I don't know anything about World War I. But pretty sure it was World War II.

[1246] Nazis were coming.

[1247] To protect it?

[1248] Yes.

[1249] They bricked up like this beehive shape around the David.

[1250] Whoa.

[1251] So that when the bombs dropped, if the ceiling caved in, it would still be protected.

[1252] It's so good.

[1253] Fascinating.

[1254] Yeah.

[1255] So where are we donating, Alejandra?

[1256] So there is Feeding America, which is the U .S .'s largest domestic hunger relief organization.

[1257] Let's do that.

[1258] If you want to do that one.

[1259] Do you guys want me to send this to you so you can read it?

[1260] No, you just did it.

[1261] You're now the third host on the show.

[1262] Get ready.

[1263] Get ready.

[1264] Don't go on social media.

[1265] Don't go on social media.

[1266] What's the website, Alejandro?

[1267] The website is feedingamerica .org.

[1268] Great.

[1269] 10 ,000 to them.

[1270] Yes.

[1271] Doing something about it.

[1272] Vote, everyone, please.

[1273] And stay strong.

[1274] Yeah, it's hard, but you can do it.

[1275] You're the Mona Lisa.

[1276] You're now the Mona Lisa.

[1277] Thanks for listening.

[1278] We appreciate you guys.

[1279] And this is a good outlet for all of us.

[1280] I mean, it really is.

[1281] This one felt like one of the oldest hangs.

[1282] And you know I love showing off.

[1283] So thanks for being in.

[1284] audience for one of my greatest passions besides the Louvre.

[1285] Stay sexy.

[1286] And don't get murdered.

[1287] Goodbye.

[1288] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1289] This has been an exactly right production.

[1290] Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[1291] Our managing producers, Hannah Kyle Creighton.

[1292] Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[1293] This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachi.

[1294] Our researchers are Marin McClashin and Ali Elkin.

[1295] Email your home to to My Favorite Murder at gmail .com.

[1296] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at My Fave Murder.

[1297] Goodbye.