Tom Brady

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair.

[1] Expert, experts on expert.

[2] Boy, do we have a tasty expert today, don't we?

[3] He is delicious.

[4] Oh, he is.

[5] I'm so thrilled with how boldover you were with his looks like I am.

[6] He's a tall drink.

[7] If we hadn't agreed on that, there might be a real strife in our friendship.

[8] Probably.

[9] His name is Tom Brady.

[10] And, you know, whether you're a fan of the Patriots or not, there's just no denying.

[11] He's the greatest quarterback of all time.

[12] The guy's been to the Super Bowl nine times.

[13] He's one.

[14] He is a football quarterback, and he spent the first 20 seasons playing for the New England Patriots and currently plays for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

[15] He's played in nine Super Bowls and won six of them.

[16] Both of those are records, and he's got an exciting new line out called TB12.

[17] Tom's TB12 brand is a global health and wellness brand focused on helping people everywhere live a healthy and active lifestyle.

[18] It's inspired by his training method.

[19] TB12 helps people do what they love, better and for longer with a focus on injury prevention and recovery.

[20] TB12 supports active individuals through an omni -channel approach that incorporates physical location, immersive digital experiences, and innovative functional products.

[21] And if there's ever been a guy to listen to on how to stay healthy, it's this guy.

[22] Yeah, I mean, he's the oldest player in the NFL right now, and he's thriving.

[23] And he looks like a very attractive young boy.

[24] He does.

[25] So please enjoy this very attractive.

[26] young boy, Tom Brady.

[27] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[28] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[29] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[30] Yeah, what's up, man?

[31] There he is.

[32] You're so official.

[33] You got a studio.

[34] I just have like a microphone on whether it's working or not.

[35] There is nothing more fun than watching.

[36] people like you or Bill Gates, try to operate their computer.

[37] It's one of the funest parts of this job.

[38] I bet.

[39] Where are you guys at?

[40] We are in an attic that's above a garage at a house we're building that I don't think will ever be done.

[41] I think we're at year three of it.

[42] So it's really just a very expensive garage at this point.

[43] So typical.

[44] It's a good typical construction process.

[45] Yes, yes.

[46] And it doesn't matter how many times you go through it, you still are shocked with how long long in how much it goes over budget each time i know i know over budget the duration we had a house in boston i swear to god it cost twice as we were 100 % over budget 100 % yeah that's that seems to be the standard number i think i know i came out of football season and they showed me the budget and i was like what the fuck is this it was pretty rough did you have real jobs as a kid like were you forced to do some manual labor?

[47] I had a couple really great jobs.

[48] My first job, I was actually talking about this yesterday.

[49] My first job was a paper route.

[50] Did you ever have paper route?

[51] I did not.

[52] I did not.

[53] I was in Michigan, so I shoveled driveways.

[54] That was kind of the equivalent.

[55] That's a good job.

[56] That's manual labor.

[57] But in elementary school and then start a high school, I had a paper route.

[58] And I made, I think, $25 a month.

[59] And I was actually talking about that with one of my coaches yesterday, because we were talking about our first jobs.

[60] And I think it was kind of my job and my mom's job, too, she would drive me around and I would throw the papers out of the side of the car maybe it helped me a little bit I didn't realize it was maybe a career training but it ended up being you know pretty good yeah yeah work on that arm so my big barriers were yeah my mom was single mom raising three kids in full -time jobs she was not going to fucking drive me around so I was like oh this isn't going to work everyone I know with a paper route really it's their mom's paper route as you say yeah I know we had like a like one of like fire them onto the, and then over the top of the car to, like, get to the other side of the street.

[61] In high school, I didn't do as much because I was playing a lot of sports.

[62] In college, I worked in, like, cleaning industrial manufacturing plants in Michigan, Bloomfield Hills, literally $10.

[63] Oh.

[64] I was scrubbing ceilings of this, like, paint.

[65] Oh, my God.

[66] And I kept thinking at the end of the day, like my shoulders were done, my elbows.

[67] And I was like, this is the worst job I've ever, could ever have imagined.

[68] Yeah, I'm really delighted that you spent some time in Michigan.

[69] That's where I'm from.

[70] So I was delighted to learn that you set up camp there in Ann Arbor.

[71] Did you enjoy that?

[72] And you can be honest.

[73] I'll cut it out.

[74] If it's if it's totally derogatory, I'll cut it out.

[75] So it looks like we switched places.

[76] I was in California then went to Ann Arbor.

[77] And I think it was a long way from home.

[78] I think I needed to go away from home.

[79] I needed to grow up because I was kind of a California kid.

[80] I had three sisters.

[81] I was the baby.

[82] So you could imagine I was probably a little bit soft.

[83] yeah and then go into michigan go to the midwest you know go to school you feel like you're totally outside of your carers i didn't even own a winter coat my roommate pat cradis he like gave me my first jacket you know and i never was like what the hell do i need this for and man it's 10 degrees in the middle of january and i'm like fuck this yeah you must have looked around and thought why on earth would anyone live here right when i return home i think oh they must just have not ever gone to california they just have not ever gone to california they just don't know that you don't have to be miserable eight months of the year.

[84] You know what?

[85] That's exactly what you think.

[86] Because in California, you grew up and you're like, every day is great.

[87] Like every days, the weather's great.

[88] It doesn't rain much where it's not humid.

[89] Outdoor activities, you go hiking, you go biking, you golf, you go to the beach.

[90] We go, you know, two out, three hours of Tahoe.

[91] We go skiing, you know, and it was like your whole world existed in California.

[92] And then going away to school, you know, you have like four minutes of good weather.

[93] And maybe it's okay sucking it up in college.

[94] It's not that big a deal.

[95] But when you think about kids, right, you have kids, and I always think about, oh, my God, if I was in my house for eight months of the year, gray skies, you know, it's a beating.

[96] Yeah.

[97] It has its challenge, I think, for the kids.

[98] But you know what?

[99] Kids are so resilient.

[100] Like my kids, they've been in Boston for, so my daughter's a seven.

[101] My middle son's 10.

[102] And my oldest is 13, but my 10 and 7 have been in Boston, born there.

[103] And then we came to Florida for the last five months.

[104] And my daughter's like, Daddy.

[105] Like, what are we going to do for Christmas?

[106] Like, there's no, what are we going to do for Halloween?

[107] Is there Halloween in Tampa?

[108] You know?

[109] And then she keeps saying, every time we eat, we eat out right out here outside.

[110] And it's like 85 degrees.

[111] She won't eat outside with us.

[112] She goes inside of the house.

[113] So she's like, Daddy, I'm not like it this hot all the time.

[114] But, you know, for me, I like, yeah, I like it hot every day now.

[115] I'm never going back to cold weather.

[116] I did 25 years of it.

[117] When you were playing for the Patriots, when you're off season, would you guys return to California or where would you go?

[118] Would you stay there?

[119] Yeah, a little bit.

[120] Before I met my wife, I traveled quite a bit.

[121] She lived in New York.

[122] So I'd say from about 2000, when I went to Boston, 2000, 2006, I would travel kind of around the country.

[123] You know, I was in my mid -20s.

[124] So there was kind of always something to do, two days here, three days here.

[125] And then 2007, my son was born.

[126] And we spent the off -seasons then in California because that's where he was living at the time.

[127] Oh, right.

[128] That makes sense.

[129] Kind of reconnected.

[130] in Brentway.

[131] That was pretty beautiful.

[132] Well, because what I was wondering is, I have a couple different friends who are either their English and then now they have children here and their kids are American, which I think would be so weird or vice versa, right?

[133] They moved to England and they have these English -speaking kids or with the accent.

[134] And I think, well, it must be such a bizarre feeling to have your offspring not really mirror how you are.

[135] And is it wild to think that your kids aren't Californians in some weird way?

[136] Because I'm wrestling with the idea that my girls are growing up in California and I'm thinking, where will they even aspire to move to?

[137] Like in Michigan, I was like, well, that's obvious.

[138] I got to get to California, but I don't know where the fuck they're supposed to go.

[139] They should go nowhere.

[140] They're here.

[141] Nowhere, trust me. Let me talk to them when I get a little older.

[142] They should stay.

[143] Other than the very high tax rate and the traffic and there's a few other inconveniences, but for the most part, it's pretty good.

[144] I think the trickier thing for my wife is, you know, think about it, she's Brazilian.

[145] So she's raising kids that were Americans that speak, you know.

[146] My daughter's, you know, speaks both languages pretty well.

[147] My son, I think hears it from his mom, but then doesn't necessarily always want to communicate it back.

[148] But at least he's, you know, getting it.

[149] So it's probably a little stranger for her.

[150] For me, I think I've been so removed from California.

[151] And our kids have had a lot of different experiences, you know, just being in the northeast.

[152] Now we're in the southeast.

[153] You know, they travel to South America.

[154] You know, we've at home in Costa Rica for a long time.

[155] there you know so i took my son to china two three years ago so oh no kidding what do you think of that you know what it was a great trip you know for a dad and a son at about 10 years old i mean it's it's pretty amazing just to be together like i had a couple of those trips when i was young with my dad you know it's probably more special for me than him but he'll remember her it was pretty sweet i try to do that once every year i try to take one of the two somewhere just with one of them and yeah man it is so special to just be a little team and you're in a hotel room together and you're making your decisions together it's so fun isn't it yeah you know the one -on -one time is like from my standpoint you know i meet so many people it's you know and they see me as someone different than probably who i feel like i am my kids see me as dad so then when you're together one -on -one you're just doing dad things and you know when you have one -on -one and they say these things and it's just you know kind of makes your week or year or month or you know there's some really great moments i'll even them feel guilty because at the end, like day five of those trips, we get along so well.

[156] And I think, oh, shit, if I dedicated this much one -on -one connection, this would be how they'd act.

[157] Like, when they're acting shitty, it's probably just a response to wanting more of my time that I don't have.

[158] Yeah, I know.

[159] What kind of parents did you have?

[160] You're from San Mateo?

[161] Yeah, I grew up with just in northern California, just about 20 miles south of San Francisco and San Mateo.

[162] So my parents were, you know, just so supportive of me growing up, everything I did.

[163] Like I said, I had three sisters.

[164] So we had a very sports -centric family.

[165] My sisters were all into playing, you know, softball and basketball, soccer.

[166] So a lot of my childhood was like at sports fields, you know, just that they're going to their softball games at 6 o 'clock at night and then going to round table pizza and having dinner with the whole team and then going home and then just thinking it was a great life growing up.

[167] But life was so different for us because we existed just in the community that we lived in, you know, we didn't travel the way that my kids would travel now.

[168] We just, our life existed in San Mateo.

[169] And if we wanted to go on vacation, we'd go to Santa Cruz or, you know, we drive in a car to Pine Mountain Lake, which was two hours away.

[170] Or we'd go to Tahoe once, you know, once you're in a winter for, it was a three -hour drive if our car made it up that hill, you know, to get.

[171] Oh, that's a beating, yeah, up to 90 or 80 or whatever the hell that is.

[172] 30 years ago, there wasn't the same kind of four -wheel drive.

[173] So, yeah.

[174] Yeah, it was just, you know, it was a great, just.

[175] a great nurturing environment for me as was mom or dad an athlete or both yeah they were both very good athletes my dad was drafted to be a professional baseball player no shit fillies ended up going to want to be a priest he went to the to the seminary in chicago yeah what well that's a left turn he became a priest no he didn't so he was in school and then um the story he always tells me was his friend his bunkmate was listening to a transistor radio of a baseball game, World Series game, and got caught by one of the priests and gotten a lot of trouble.

[176] And at that point, he was kind of like, and then, you know, he realized he wanted to, you know, have a wife and have kids.

[177] Have sex.

[178] Yeah.

[179] I thought you're going to say he was at seminary and he got horny.

[180] That wasn't the case.

[181] No. Well, I'm sure he did, actually, but he didn't actually tell me that.

[182] I don't know if I would tell him to my son.

[183] Do you remember meeting me And I don't say this to trap you This is not a test But do you remember meeting me Because it was very memorable for me Just say yes Can you?

[184] No, no I need to just help me out Okay, I'm going to paint the picture for you I was at the Met Gala Which I had turned down going to like 10 times My wife always wanted me to go It's not my scene I go And you're in front of me We're in line like entering the facility and I don't know it's you yet.

[185] I just know that there's a guy in front of me that's considerably larger than me. And I put my hand on your shoulder again, and I didn't know it was you, and I whispered in your ear, sir, I'm generally the tallest at these events, so I'm going to have to ask you to leave, and then you turned around and it was fucking you, and then you laughed, which made my night.

[186] And, yeah, that's the one time we met.

[187] That's awesome.

[188] I remember that.

[189] I actually don't remember that.

[190] I don't remember.

[191] I thought it was a really memorable line.

[192] How tall are you?

[193] He's a fucking beast, Monica.

[194] What?

[195] How many?

[196] Six, five.

[197] Six, five.

[198] Okay, you're close, though.

[199] No, no, no, no. When you see us next, I'm like six two and a half, almost six three, almost six two.

[200] Some day six four.

[201] You must get that when people meet you in real life.

[202] I think because you're surrounded by enormous phenoms physically, I assume you're my height.

[203] And then I see you in person and you're a Goliath.

[204] You're like, have you ever met Vince Vaughn?

[205] No, I don't think I have.

[206] Is he a Goliath?

[207] He's a fucking giant.

[208] And I think when people see him, they're like, oh, my goodness.

[209] I can't tell in movies, but this guy's a giant.

[210] You're right.

[211] I'm around these big guys all the time.

[212] So, you know, for me, like, when I see like Rob Grancowski, I'm like, damn, that guy's a beast.

[213] Yeah, yeah.

[214] So anything left than that, I'm always like, oh, yeah, just kind of, you know, normal height, you know?

[215] But, you know, when you're tall, you never think about it.

[216] being tall until you're looking up at someone which is a very rare experience right for you it's not often that i have to like crane my neck to lock eyes with somebody but with you i was really at about 40 percent craned yeah to hold your gaze it's that's about right i know i have that experience at my work yeah i think it we were saying the other day being tall is very good when you're standing not very good when you're sitting you know oh yeah my posture cars airplanes you know seats all day so has its advantages.

[217] Okay, so you grew up in San Mateo, and I guess I didn't know this until today until I was learning about you, but you also played baseball, and you were drafted?

[218] You were drafted for Major League Baseball?

[219] Yeah, I was a pretty good baseball player in high school, and football where I grew up wasn't, you know, in Northern California outside of, I'd say like De LaSalle, who had a great football program.

[220] There weren't a lot of great football programs in NorCal.

[221] So it was probably more known for baseball, and I went to a school that was just right down the street from my house and high school.

[222] And it was always pretty good.

[223] One of that trips that I took with my dad when I was younger, when I was 12 for baseball, I went to Japan with him for a Goodwill baseball exchange, which was really cool.

[224] And it was the first time I'd ever seen my dad drunk.

[225] He wasn't drunk and horny.

[226] He was just drunk.

[227] Well, we don't know.

[228] I'm sure he was quite horny.

[229] He probably just kept that under wraps.

[230] So we were there together at 12, but baseball was kind of what I did.

[231] And then I got to in high school, I still played both.

[232] sports but really just fell in love with playing football and the 49ers were you know great when I was growing up in the 90s they had a great football team so that's kind of my most influential years I would say as an athlete was around football and then still play a lot of baseball then when I got a chance to kind of play team sports and play football it wasn't until my freshman year in high school and then I just kind of fell in the football and then really wanted to focus my time and energy on that oh so hold on I guess this is news to me you had not played football till ninth grade yeah And nothing organized, just, you know, flag football on the street and stuff, but nothing organized.

[233] But no, like, Pop Warner or any of that stuff.

[234] Which was a trip, because when you get to your first day of practice and everyone starts, like, putting all their pads on and puts their pads and their pants, I'm like, I'm looking over at them.

[235] I'm like, how do I put these in my pants?

[236] Like, I don't know the shoulder pads.

[237] And, you know, it was pretty unique, you know, not to have any experience.

[238] And I had other kids who were on my team that had played, you know, Pop Warner and so forth.

[239] And they were just so far advanced.

[240] And I was so far behind them.

[241] physically, you know, I probably was a late bloomer anyway, but in terms of playing football, I definitely didn't know the game other than what I watched.

[242] And then I always had a pretty good arm, but everyone was always, certainly my first year was a lot better than me. I didn't play my first year.

[243] So I was a backup quarterback my freshman year.

[244] And we had a freshman team.

[245] We were 0 and 8.

[246] So we lost every game we played.

[247] And they still didn't think I was good enough to play a game.

[248] So I was kind of looking up at everybody, you know, thinking, oh, I still love playing because it was a great team sport and then got a shot my second year to play.

[249] Were you a pitcher when you played baseball?

[250] I played pitcher.

[251] I really liked being a catcher because you're kind of in control as a catcher.

[252] Pitcher is great, but it, you know, it actually was very taxing on my arm.

[253] My arm hurt when I would play pitcher.

[254] And I wasn't a great pitcher.

[255] And, you know, like just the baseball and how you throw baseball.

[256] I was a really good hitter, I'm in a decent fielder, but not a great pitcher.

[257] I would be nervous for you playing catcher at your height.

[258] I mean, your knees.

[259] I'm worried about Your knees.

[260] That hurt a lot.

[261] So that was a thing.

[262] Ironically, baseball, I always thought, took more of a toll on me than football has.

[263] You know, I mean, I have plenty of injury football.

[264] But I think back to my high school days and, like, I would ice my knees after every game.

[265] I would ice my elbow after every game.

[266] It was constantly aching, you know?

[267] And again, I don't know a ton about sports, but they do say, right, throwing a baseball is a very unnatural.

[268] It's not like your arm's not really designed to move in the manner by which you must use it in baseball.

[269] Yeah.

[270] I think we were meant to be overhanded athletes.

[271] for sure, throwing, you know, baseballs, throwing football, throwing javelins, things like that.

[272] There's definitely, I would say, more stress on your arm just because the velocities of which you throw a baseball, you can throw a baseball harder.

[273] So if you throw it harder, there's more force and torque on the different ligaments, tendons in your elbow and shoulder, your muscles, probably a little easier to get strained because you're moving up much faster speeds.

[274] We still throw really hard in football, but if I throw a really hard football, it's probably 62 miles an hour.

[275] Oh, wow.

[276] Okay.

[277] in two miles an hour.

[278] Yeah, that's bonkers.

[279] It doesn't even seem like you could even make your arm move at 100 miles an hour, much less something leaving your arm.

[280] Yeah, there just ends up being a lot of force on your arm.

[281] And I felt that when I was playing baseball.

[282] And I just, as I played football, it was still a little bit, you know, just kind of maturing and growing.

[283] But it was less taxing on my body to play football than it was to play baseball.

[284] Now, back to your size.

[285] When did you become this enormous human being?

[286] What age?

[287] Wait, enormous is like 6 '8.

[288] I'm 6 '4.

[289] No, you're, listen, listen, you're again, you're totally misled because of your peers and your colleagues and your, your coworkers, but you're a phenomenally large human being.

[290] So when did you come into this?

[291] I probably had a growth spurt my freshman year, and then again, probably my later in my sophomore year.

[292] And then by my junior year, I was about the same height, about six, four, maybe a little more growing up to that.

[293] You know, I was kind of like the typical American kid, I would say, like I would never give my kids what I ate when we were.

[294] I was a kid.

[295] I mean, I was like, I look at pictures and I was just, you know, I was just chunky little kid that would like drink root beer floats and eat.

[296] The only thing I ever wanted to eat was baking cheeseburgers as a kid.

[297] And, you know, it reflected in my shape of my body.

[298] And and then finally I got to high school and like I would eat terrible food.

[299] I mean, you know, a big muffin with butter in the morning with hot chocolate thinking I was breakfast and get to school with two donuts.

[300] Then at lunch, at like this break, you'd have a hot dog, like a 50 -cent hot dog.

[301] And then at lunch, it would be like a clam chowder and a bread bowl.

[302] I mean, you couldn't hit every bad food, you know.

[303] And then I would, yeah, I'd get home and I'd have like nachos with like tubbo cheese.

[304] And then my mom would like, you know, try to make something good for us at night.

[305] But you're, you know, it's kind of how you grew up.

[306] It was like cereal or, you know.

[307] It's so funny you'd say that.

[308] Yesterday I was at 7 -Eleven.

[309] And this guy, next to me ordered a slice of pizza from 7 -Eleven, right?

[310] And I said to the guy, he had a mask on, as we all had masks on.

[311] So I couldn't really tell.

[312] And then he says, hey, do you mind me asking how old you are?

[313] And the guy goes, uh, 20.

[314] And I'm like, okay, that makes perfect sense.

[315] And he goes, what do you mean?

[316] And I go, well, in my 20s, I ate probably 10 to 14 hot dogs a week from 7 -Eleven because they were two for a dollar.

[317] Yeah.

[318] I'm like, but if I eat one now, I'm out for the day.

[319] I feel horrendous the next day.

[320] I'm so sensitive now.

[321] I know.

[322] But in your 20s, well, you can just shovel that garbage right in there and you don't even know it.

[323] You don't even care.

[324] In college, we would get these, um, we called them pizza cards.

[325] The football team had a deal with like Subway and we had a place in Ann Arbor called the Cottage Inn.

[326] And then we go to subway and I would eat like 18 inches of sandwich, you know, at a time of meatball.

[327] And if I wouldn't help you, I was going only one slice of cheese all the way across instead of two slices.

[328] You know, and it's like, I look back now and I'm like, I don't know how I did it.

[329] But you felt great, right?

[330] that's the thing that's so annoying is now like I'm 16 years sober.

[331] I eat pretty damn good.

[332] I eat the tiniest thing and I like I literally feel it like I'm hung over.

[333] But back then, man, I was I was drunk and smoking cigarettes and eating 7 -Eleven hot dogs felt like a million dollars.

[334] Yeah, I think we did.

[335] I think our terrible is probably a little different because I didn't, I didn't always feel great.

[336] You know, I was a kid so I was obviously, you know, bouncing off walls because, you know, the responsibility is the thing that gets you.

[337] It's like, you know, when soon you get responsibility, starts, the mental fatigue of responsibility weighs on your life, which probably makes you feel worse than the food you eat.

[338] Yeah, a lot of it is probably placebo.

[339] Like, I feel naughty, so then I feel naughty afterwards.

[340] Yeah.

[341] I'm curious, so let me just start with a couple things.

[342] I don't follow sports all that much, but I follow the Patriots.

[343] Yeah.

[344] I fucking love you.

[345] I talk about you so frequently.

[346] It would scare you how often you come up.

[347] Thank you.

[348] It's not just the skill level on the field, is unbelievable.

[349] But again, seeing you in real life, I find it absolutely perplexing that had you not chosen football, you could have probably been a supermodel.

[350] Right, Monica?

[351] For sure, yeah.

[352] It's, it's unfair.

[353] You're so good looking.

[354] And I just find that to be so curious in the same way that I think it's interesting that like Kobe and Michael Jordan are also gorgeous.

[355] Like, that's a lot of good fortune.

[356] Yeah, definitely a lot of good fortune.

[357] Thank you.

[358] I don't.

[359] You know what to say, man. You got me freaking speechless.

[360] Yeah, I'm going to get you on the run today.

[361] You are.

[362] But there's a real question behind that is confident.

[363] Have you had a luck?

[364] Yeah.

[365] But what I was going to say is, is you look at some of these like really, Joe Montana, that was your guy, right?

[366] You love Joe Montana.

[367] Yeah.

[368] It's suspicious that some of these greats were also, like, really good looking.

[369] And I feel like it has to play some role.

[370] Does it play a role in the confidence?

[371] I think even in that movie Moneyball, those guys sitting around the room, they're talking about, Well, he's a beautiful kid.

[372] Let's get him.

[373] He's confident.

[374] Like, that's been a part of the rationale, hasn't it?

[375] Yeah, a little bit.

[376] I mean, I think that over time for me, I've tried to improve my habits, you know.

[377] And I think that's helped with maintaining, you know, healthy body, physique, you know, skin, lung, you know, organ, everything.

[378] You know, and I think if you just want to, I always say, like, you know, it's one body we have, and you either have a fundamental belief that you believe what you put into your body matters or it doesn't matter.

[379] And if it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.

[380] So, you know, that's a choice people make.

[381] If you believe that it does matter, then you've got to believe that the more good things you do, the better.

[382] You know, and I think for me, when I would think about it when I was a kid, you know, I would never have developed into the athlete that I am, let's say, at 43 years old today, had I not made substantial changes and differences in how I approached, you know, my life, eating, sleeping.

[383] You know, I would drink when I was in college three nights a week and then go pray, sports and then you know wonder why you didn't have great gains in the weight room or didn't have great gains on the field and then all of a sudden i said try and some little bit different maybe drink a little less okay great and then it was like drink a little less sleep a little more and then it was like okay do that and then work out a little bit oh let me just change my diet a little bit okay great let's start adding electrolytes to what i'm doing oh let me try some supplements some vitamin d some vitamin and then it wasn't like everything at one time it's just but if i look at my 18 year old body i actually to the picture on my Instagram, 2001 of me. And I look at myself and I look like a different person, you know, and it's a 20 years time has changed.

[384] A lot has changed.

[385] But I look from this kid that I was, which was underdeveloped, you know, poor diet, you know, poor hydration.

[386] And then now it's like I think about those things.

[387] They're really a purposeful part of my day.

[388] I prioritize my health because, you know, my health has been important to my career.

[389] You know, know and it's important your career it's not like hey i have a job but also i train it's like this this is my job yeah i'm very fortunate to be able to dedicate the time and energy to it but i've seen the transformation it's made and then now my hope is like i wish everyone would be able to experience what it feels like to not you know be in pain every day to not be overcoming something at all times yeah for sure and it's just yeah because it's quality of life you know we have all these lives and we have one life.

[390] And, you know, I have guys have started playing with me when they, when they, you know, same age.

[391] I got coaches that are younger than me, you know, that are on the field.

[392] And I look at them and they, they don't move well, you know, and it's like, I'm sitting here playing a really demanding sport.

[393] And there's a lot of discipline that goes into making those decisions that allow that to happen.

[394] But what I want to represent as I move forward is like, hey, guys, I was the typical kid, actually.

[395] I wasn't like, yeah, born like Michael Jordan.

[396] I wasn't born with like LeBron.

[397] Like LeBron, I admire more than, I mean, I love LeBron.

[398] But, like, you know.

[399] He's also a phenom out of the womb.

[400] Tiger Woods.

[401] And, you know, some of these phenoms are, you know, that have incredible talents, let's say Michael Jackson, you know, you think of some of these that you saw when they were kids.

[402] And then I see myself as a kid.

[403] I'm like, damn, I was nothing like those people.

[404] You know, I was like this.

[405] If you saw me, you would never say, oh, yeah, you know, Tom's going to be playing 21 years in the NFL.

[406] So I'm actually feel like, you know, I can teach people, guys, if you're willing to commit and have some discipline, you know, make a commitment to your health, you can achieve some really great things.

[407] That's a really great point because I even had it in my own life, right, where I had an idea of what I was genetically, right?

[408] And then I'm looking at my lineage, right?

[409] And most shepherds are, I don't know, 70 to 80 pounds overweight.

[410] You know, I come by it honestly.

[411] And then in my mind, I was someone who, well, I'll never have a six -pack.

[412] I'm not one of those guys.

[413] I saw those guys in the locker rooms, blah, blah, blah.

[414] And then I did one movie where I decided I'm going to hire a trainer, I'm going to do the diet.

[415] And then all of a sudden, I was like, oh, I was just telling myself that stuff, you know, and that's not to say everyone has the potential to do anything, but I'll just say from my own experience, I had a potential much greater than I ever was assuming I did.

[416] And there's some weird confidence builder in that where you go, oh, well, maybe I should question every limit I've put on myself, right?

[417] That all these things I think I wasn't predisposed to be, I should challenge.

[418] Yeah.

[419] Yeah.

[420] And I think, you know, being naive allowed me to accomplish a lot of things like when people said oh you're going to go to college like and play football and recruited i was like fucking course i am like what do you think i had my counselor in high school that was like are you crazy like no we're applying for schools i was like applying i don't need to apply i'm going to play i'm playing college football yeah backup plan what are you talking about like okay you mean backup team if i don't get to play for the team i know exactly and then when i was drafted by a patriots it was the same thing that was like I'm going to play pro football.

[421] Like, what are these people talking about?

[422] And then when I got to the Patriots, it was like, of course I'm going to be the starting quarterback, you know, here at some point.

[423] Like, what are you guys?

[424] You're tripping.

[425] Like, of course I see it.

[426] And then I look back and I'm like, I mean, the odds to overcome all those things.

[427] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[428] What's up guys?

[429] This your girl Kiki.

[430] And my podcast is back with a new season.

[431] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[432] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[433] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[434] And I don't mean just friends.

[435] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[436] The list goes on.

[437] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[438] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[439] We've all been there.

[440] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange.

[441] rashes.

[442] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[443] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[444] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[445] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[446] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[447] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[448] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[449] You're so right.

[450] Naivete is a gift.

[451] I am curious, though.

[452] A couple of things were surprising to me today.

[453] As someone who's just been in love with you physically, I wouldn't have guessed.

[454] I wouldn't have known that you got selected one.

[455] 99th in the draft.

[456] Would you have thought that, Monica?

[457] No. Like sixth round, 199th pick.

[458] Yeah.

[459] Ends up being the greatest quarterback of all time.

[460] It's so fucking cool.

[461] I'm almost preferred that that's your story, right?

[462] Yeah.

[463] You know, I've done it for so long.

[464] So, like, I'm playing with it, like, one of my teammates said the other day to me, he's like, bro, when you won the Super Bowl the first time, I was 14, you know?

[465] He said, I was in fourth grade.

[466] Oh, geez.

[467] Oh, yikes.

[468] And I sit here and think, wow, because, you.

[469] You know, I have so many of these people that see me now and think, oh, man, that's like Tom Brady's.

[470] He's like, I'm 18.

[471] He was already a Super Bowl champ when I was born, you know.

[472] And I'm sitting here thinking, God damn, it's, there's been a long, hard road.

[473] That hard road is part of my, you know, whether it's a chip on my shoulder, whether it's to think about the things that have motivated you to say, fuck it, I'm going to keep going another day.

[474] I'm not going to stop.

[475] And I'm going to build on this.

[476] And I'm going to be better than next time.

[477] And, you know, people would look at me and be like, what do you, what are you talking about?

[478] Like you're, you're there.

[479] You're there.

[480] But they never saw the pre 22 years of my life where that wasn't the case.

[481] And then those 22 years shaped me into who I was at 23.

[482] And then, okay, how can I build on being a little bit better every day, a little bit better, a little bit better.

[483] Because, you know, when you make the changes in your life or you, they don't happen necessarily cold turkey overnight, you know?

[484] It's like, yeah.

[485] Making things better or worse is sometimes momentarily, you know?

[486] Yeah, yeah, baby steps, incremental change.

[487] We've had a bunch of different experts on here to talk about the process of change and how, yeah, it's like, it's just really tiny stuff and it's tying it to stuff maybe that you already do.

[488] And there's all these hacks, right?

[489] It seems intimidating on the surface just to go like, fuck, I'm never going to be Tom Brady.

[490] And it's like, well, guess what, Tom Brady didn't become Tom Brady in an afternoon either.

[491] Yeah, for sure.

[492] And I think all Tom Brady, as I speak about myself in the third person, I'll do it with.

[493] I think when I think about that it's been like just steady progress progress over perfection you know it's like we weren't born like that you know yeah let's make it a little better every day whether that's whatever it is it's you know if you're aware of it then you can focus on it and if you're aware of and you can focus you can prioritize and if you can prioritize and be disciplined you can achieve really great results now if you don't care and you just you know fuck it I'll wake up do whatever I want to do it be impulsive say oh I'm this or that I want to do this or that.

[494] You know, and a lot of us live, you know, I live like that at one point.

[495] And then I found something that worked better.

[496] And then I just tried to repeat that.

[497] And it's worked out.

[498] Well, what I like about you a lot is you're not standing anywhere with a megaphone saying be like me. I think what you've done with your book.

[499] And every time I've seen you interviewed, it's like, hey, I can just tell you what I'm about that may inspire you or not.

[500] I'm not, I have no program that humans should be on.

[501] I'm not saying, yeah.

[502] And I've dug that about your kind of messaging.

[503] I think it should.

[504] just maximizing your potential.

[505] Some people are interested in that and some people are and that's totally fine as well.

[506] Yeah, for sure.

[507] And we all have choices.

[508] It's our life.

[509] And, you know, but your potential could be whatever it is and everyone gets that choice.

[510] And, you know, I think you've got to be able to have people help you.

[511] You know, no one can do it alone.

[512] It's great to have supportive family, friends, mentors to help you say, hey, man, you're struggle a little bit.

[513] Let me help you out.

[514] You know, or let me give you a shortcut.

[515] And then how great in the world of technology that we can listen to shows like yours to say, man you got this really cool person on what can i take what can i learn and we're such in a world of information hopefully you know we can't hack some of these things you know that before we couldn't 15 years ago we couldn't because we couldn't show this type of information so you must have watched last dance did you watch last dance yeah i loved it it was amazing i mean what what a what a ride huh he's so fucking impressive in so many ways we got to talk to bill gates the other day and i asked him if he watched it and he did and he loved it and i was like could you relate i mean there's only a handful of people currently alive that can kind of relate to him.

[516] Bill Gates being one of them, you being one of them.

[517] Did you feel a kinship with his kind of drive and his dedication?

[518] Yeah, you know, I think there's a lot of similar feelings, emotions that he went through that I've gone through at one point or another, you know, and I think there's so many, you know, being in locker rooms and road trips and wins and losses.

[519] And I think the thing about sports, you know, is like we're not acting, you know, this is our real life.

[520] This is a real Tom Brady.

[521] on the field, my real emotion.

[522] I'm not playing a role.

[523] I'm playing myself.

[524] Well, you can't even hide it.

[525] There's a thousand cameras pointed at you.

[526] We're going to see whatever that experience is for you.

[527] Yeah.

[528] And I think that, like, I think that's a little different.

[529] You know, like if you look at, you know, someone like Michael Jordan, it was the same thing for Michael.

[530] And I think what you saw in that documentary was, wow, that's really him.

[531] Like, that's what we saw.

[532] That's really Michael.

[533] You know, I don't know how anyone can't be a Michael Jordan fan.

[534] I'm a huge Michael Jordan fan just because how he approached his life and he was someone I always looked up there.

[535] I had all his posters in my room and you could make him feel old.

[536] You could tell him you had a poster when you were a. I'm sure.

[537] You could return the favor.

[538] I think I had a Spike Lee one where he was holding Spike Lee.

[539] Oh, Spike Lee's head.

[540] That was pretty sweet.

[541] So yeah.

[542] So there's a moment, there's a moment in last dance where we kind of learn and maybe it was conveniently constructed for the sake of storytelling, but I don't think so.

[543] I think the dynamic of him having the older brother that was better than him and then having a father whose affection he wanted tremendously and rightly or wrongly identifying that if he could beat that brother, he could win that dad's attention.

[544] That seems to be the chip on his shoulder that drove him so successfully.

[545] What's the chip on your shoulder?

[546] Do you know?

[547] Have you thought much about it?

[548] I think there's always been doubt around what I could achieve.

[549] And I think that's what it was.

[550] There's always there was always heard the people say he'll never do that.

[551] He'll never be the starting quarterback in high school by senior year, you know, and he'll never go to a real good Division I school and play football.

[552] He should just stick around and play, you know, at a local school.

[553] And then he'll never be a pro quarterback.

[554] You know, certainly never be a starting quarterback.

[555] I'd say I'm very interested.

[556] I'm, I have a real strong fire that burns based on me, never wanting to let myself down.

[557] You know, giving less than my best effort is probably a real hard thing for me. I have a, you know, his 10 -year -old son is very hard on himself.

[558] And I'm trying to tell him, like, bro, this is not the path you want to go down.

[559] You know, yeah.

[560] Like, let's just breathe a little bit.

[561] And, like, you know, I remember, like, crying about being stressed out about something in fifth grade.

[562] And that is born.

[563] That's not.

[564] Yeah, just you genetically are kind of wired that way.

[565] They're just wired to have, like, this part of me that was like, I didn't want to be less than my best.

[566] If I thought I should have won, I was going to win.

[567] If I thought I was going to.

[568] Now, there's some things that I didn't have a lot of interest in.

[569] I was not very good student.

[570] I tried just hard enough, but no interest.

[571] You know, I just didn't feel like, you know, school was the highest priority.

[572] A good use of your time.

[573] It certainly wasn't, to be honest.

[574] So I went to college and people like, what do you major?

[575] And I'm like, fucking football, man. I was there to play football.

[576] I got a, you know, 3 -2 GPA or 3 -3 GPA, but I didn't, you know, like I wasn't going there to like, hey, what is my career going to be?

[577] my career was going to be.

[578] What degree did you even pick up?

[579] So that's a, it's, it was called general studies.

[580] Oh, Jesus.

[581] It was basically so I could pick the classes I wanted to go to.

[582] So, and it didn't require a degree in general studies.

[583] I remember in my college, I took one class.

[584] It was like Dance 101, and it wasn't dancing.

[585] You just sat in a class and they taught you about dance.

[586] And all of the football players were in that class because it was so, clearly just like this is where you'll get your passing grade and you go ahead and take that they got to keep us eligible you know that come yeah exactly i know dax i know you went to ucla i love ucla i was a great beautiful place my niece is there now my niece is a uh is a softball player oh no kidding she's a she was the freshman of the year last year in the pack 10 no shit she're a little stud so i love ucla man before everything shut down i was out there for a game and it's it was sweet but back to when the people were saying he's not going to or you're fooling yourself what were they hanging that argument on were they saying was it was a size thing was it was a natural talent thing what did they what were the critiques no i think it was probably just natural talent like you know there were other kids that were always bigger always faster you know always stronger you know i was always kind of right there but they were always more potential more potential more potential and even i really faced that every step of the way like even when i got to you know college it was It was like there were other kids with more potential, you know, and then I got to the pros, and it was other kids with more potential.

[587] And it's just you'd think, okay, well, why didn't they make it?

[588] You know, why didn't, why was I the one that made it other than I would say people probably misvalue things.

[589] They put value on things that probably don't matter.

[590] And there's the other things that they should value more that probably they don't.

[591] You know, there's a lot of those stories.

[592] Yeah, we just had an expert on Angela Duckworth.

[593] Her work is all on grit.

[594] She's a professor at Penn, and yeah, if you want to measure something in the students that's going to predict their achievement, it is not intelligence.

[595] It's not all these things we would think.

[596] It is grit more than any other thing.

[597] And I find that to be so true in acting and any damn thing.

[598] It's like, yeah, grit, man, that's 80 % of it half the time.

[599] Because think about it too.

[600] It's like the smartest kid, this, you know, it's like, what are they learning through whatever, the beginning of the competitive part of life to a, working career.

[601] And you think of kids were really smart, okay, or people who could process really quickly or who were great athletes.

[602] And in the end, what did they, what skills did they develop over time that were sustainable, you know?

[603] And I think for me, what did I learn?

[604] I learned that if I was going to achieve anything, it was going to be through a really hard work, that I was always behind everybody.

[605] So I always felt like I had to work twice as hard.

[606] I was always looking at people that are better me, so I had to observe what made them better than me. Yeah.

[607] And I think when all of the other things are stripped away, like I would say a natural talent, you know, whatever it is, something that God really blessed you with, then what's left?

[608] You know, and if you haven't developed those other traits, then when you do face adversities, they become adversities.

[609] They don't become another opportunity for you to overcome something like you did, basically your whole life.

[610] So when I got to professional sports, I had really worked hard and competed every day.

[611] So by the time I got to a professional level, I was like, you want to compete, let's go.

[612] You want to complete?

[613] Let's roll.

[614] I know how to compete.

[615] You know, other guys who never had to compete because they were always the best in high school and they were always the best in pros.

[616] Now they're like sitting here going, what do you mean compete?

[617] I never even learned.

[618] I just was the best.

[619] I was thinking about that.

[620] When I was trying to imagine like your life and particularly the way you've approached it and I want to want to talk about it, but, you know, your commitment to diet, all these things, I mean, you are working this job of yours, you know, 24 -7.

[621] It's very admirable.

[622] And I imagine exactly that I was thinking, over your 21 years, you must have seen so many people arrive in that locker room who were just phenoms, right?

[623] They're Bo Jackson.

[624] They have some physical prowess.

[625] That's just crazy.

[626] And you must have observed so many people that could have just been absolutely legendary that just didn't do it.

[627] Yeah.

[628] It must be kind of heartbreaking.

[629] There's parts that I see and I try to tell them and I'll say more recently, like, I'll say, hey, how great do you want to be?

[630] How great do you want to be?

[631] And they'll be like, what do you mean?

[632] Like, I'm like, no, I know you're great.

[633] I know you're great.

[634] But like, how great do you really want to be?

[635] Because I think you could be better than anybody.

[636] And they're like, huh, you know?

[637] Yeah, most people probably right.

[638] They set their sights on something that has existed.

[639] So it's like if they're a wide receiver, if they end up as good as whatever wide receiver that's in their mind, then they've accomplished it.

[640] But someone like you, I mean, just on paper, it's inarguable.

[641] You know, you've won more Super Bowls than anyone.

[642] You've been there more times.

[643] You've won more games.

[644] You just all these things.

[645] Stop, stop, please.

[646] Oh, I got a whole list I wrote down if you want to hear it.

[647] It's fucking, by the way, your Wikipedia page is way too long.

[648] You need to get somebody to, I know it was 35 pages.

[649] long.

[650] That's right.

[651] Just exit out.

[652] But yeah, for Super Bowl MVP's, if your goal was only to have been as good as Joe Montana or someone else, then we wouldn't have learned the limits of what someone could be.

[653] You know, if your war seems to have been with yourself, which I think is the best war you can have.

[654] Yeah.

[655] As long as you're better than the guy from last year, you're on the right path.

[656] So yeah, you don't even know what's possible.

[657] And I didn't learn these things over, you know, time because you don't have a lot of these thoughts you know when you're 20 or 25 or 30 but you know you have kids and you start thinking more you have a little more perspective and you're a little wiser and you've told a lot of stories over the years and you think what's really going to stick and i said my kids the day i said it's is it most important to do your best or is it more important to do the best what's going to be more fulfilling for you in your life to do your best that's an interesting question and we're so you know we're so conditioned to do the best to do the best and the reality is is doing your best and not being attached to the best is going to allow you to, you know, have probably more whatever it could be, emotional stability or, you know, you become attached to being better than your brother or being better than this other person.

[658] And it's, there's inherent letdowns on all those things, which maybe they're okay because you're going to help you grow and toughen up a little bit too.

[659] But you're right.

[660] There's built in limits.

[661] It's a finite goal.

[662] If the goal is to be as good as someone else or marginally better, then that's, it's finite.

[663] Yeah.

[664] As opposed to, If I'm bettering myself, who knows where this goes.

[665] Yeah.

[666] And if we focused on achieving, you know, a little more each day, you know.

[667] And again, it's just, I encourage a lot of people to, like, set some goals, man. Like, set some real goals.

[668] Yeah, write them on fucking paper.

[669] Pick up a pen.

[670] And then give them to your friend or give them to your wife and say, look, just check me on these.

[671] Yeah.

[672] Inviting people to make you accountable, I think is really powerful.

[673] And that's part of every aspect of, you know, self -improvement is being, have a self -awareness.

[674] Hey, what do I need to do a better job?

[675] A, in my career, B, my personal life.

[676] Hey, how do I need to do to help my, you know, friends, help my kids, help my wife?

[677] And then just every day, it's just you try to do a little bit better.

[678] If you ever need help helping your wife, you have my number now.

[679] Just, I'm at your disposal to help your wife anytime she needs help.

[680] You are so sweet.

[681] Thank you.

[682] Thank you for noticing.

[683] I am very benevolent.

[684] You know, this wasn't a question I had thought of earlier, but now that I'm talking to you, I was watching a, documentary about either Tiger Woods or John Daly.

[685] I imagine you know both those guys.

[686] And there's this really, really profound conversation they had where they had just finished a tournament.

[687] And John Daly said to Tiger Woods, hey, come have a drink with us.

[688] And Tiger Woods said, if I had your skill, I would go have a drink with you, but I don't.

[689] So I got to go back out and practice.

[690] Now that I remember, it was John Daly telling the story.

[691] And you could tell he took pride in that, as you should.

[692] Tiger Woods is telling you that you're naturally better, but it's a very heartbreaking story at the same time because you look at the difference in their career.

[693] So I was wondering, in that same vein, was there anybody that you were actually envious of with your job that you were like, fuck, if I had what they had coupled with what I'm willing to bring to it, this could be something.

[694] Can you remember a player that you were envious of?

[695] Professional football.

[696] I mean, there's been so many over the years.

[697] I mean, if I look at like, some guys who physically obviously have a lot more ability, you know, they're faster, they're bigger, they can run, they can, you know, I think there's some things that I've learned to do probably better over time, you know, because I've been at working hard at it for a long time.

[698] But, you know, my fifth year in the league, I was no, you know, freak of nature.

[699] Right.

[700] But I look at some guys who maybe were great physically, you know, run a 4 -640.

[701] I like, I'll joke all the time.

[702] I'll see a guy run like a 4 -740, which is pretty fast.

[703] I would say like the average NFL quarterback probably runs, you know, a four eight four nine the fast guys run like four seven the slow guys run like five flat and over i ran a five three i was slow there we go i was the slowest person on the field i couldn't outrun a 300 bitty pound defensive lineman so every time i got the ball of my hands like a hot potato i'm like where does someone at i got to throw this thing you know because i'm going to get killed upon this thing so you know i look the ref was going to outrun me yeah exactly so you know i'm sitting here thinking god If I could run a 4 -7, football would be so easy.

[704] I mean, how easy would this sport be if I could run away from people.

[705] And again, that could be a limit you could have given yourself.

[706] Well, I just won't be that because I don't have that.

[707] This is such a side note.

[708] But one of the refs, again, I don't watch a ton of football.

[709] One of the refs appears to be about 65 in his fucking jacked.

[710] Do you know what I'm talking about?

[711] He's retired now.

[712] What's that guy's?

[713] Oh, he is.

[714] His name's Ed Hoculi, yeah.

[715] I knew you would know.

[716] Yeah, he was jacked.

[717] Monica, this guy looked like Lou.

[718] I live for when he would get on that mic and talk because his biceps would be bouncing around like they're going to fall.

[719] And I'm like, what's this guy doing?

[720] I know.

[721] He took a lot of pride.

[722] He was a very healthy guy.

[723] And a great rap.

[724] And a great ref. That was his thing.

[725] Another thing I just thought of that was related to last chance.

[726] Oh, yes, last chance.

[727] So there's a moment in last chance.

[728] I wonder if you had this thought.

[729] Monica and I are watching it together.

[730] Last dance.

[731] I do want to talk about last chance too.

[732] Thanks, Monica.

[733] Appreciate that.

[734] Yeah.

[735] out of girl okay so last dance there is a moment where michael makes a shot while playing for the tar heels and it's a buzzer beater to win the whole shebang yeah and you watch that shot and maybe i'm making too much of it but i i said to myself man he makes that shot and for the rest of his life he can make that shot he doesn't make that shot and he probably can never make that shot yeah and you're such a clutch player.

[736] I mean, there's nothing more thrilling than watching you guys be down and I'm watching the clock and I'm like, I would be in a full -fledged panic attack and you seem to shine the brightest in those moments.

[737] And I wonder, was there a moment that defined you as a clutch player?

[738] Did something happen early on that told you you have that gear?

[739] I would say, um, some of it was confidence, you know, like at a younger age in sports and I was a pretty good baseball player.

[740] And we would play in big games in baseball.

[741] I would do a pretty good job.

[742] And I was really prepared and football came and in college i had some real great comebacks uh -huh i had my college was really challenging you know i was a long ways from home i was you know there was less support for me than there were for a lot of other competitors and i really was felt at different times i was kind of there on an island and i had to learn to dig deep or would or would have broken me and because i really found a way to dig deep and i had a few great mentors there great hardin was our team psychologist who I think the world of and then another good friend of mine who's a head coach of Bowling Green Scott Leffler who was a you know kind of a friend quarterback coach but those two in particular were like I see it in you I see it in you now when I didn't necessarily see it in myself and they gave me some tools try this look at things this way not that way look at it this is an opportunity this isn't this not a negative this is an opportunity take advantage of it you know and I was just again it worked out so when it worked out i was like fuck more of that yeah and i would see gregg as our psychologist twice a week you know and how do i get my in more of a frame of mind you know and then it was how did i work a little more why i tried that different technique throwing the ball all right what else can i tinker with and i think the ability to learn through high school college then get to the professional level i went to the patriots the first year coach bellichick was there and like there's no better person to help teach you quarterbacking than bill bellichick you know know, and there's just all these things at one time.

[743] I'm sitting, and I look on my life and I go, there was so many things that broke my way, you know, that how lucky am I to have these people come into my life at these moments where I was ready and open to accept.

[744] And then they appeared.

[745] And then it was like, it's still that way.

[746] You know, it's like, when I think something's going to happen, it happens.

[747] And I don't know what the collective forces of, you know, coming together.

[748] I don't think I even thought of that until you just said.

[749] and it's so goddamn obvious, but, um, sorry, I just said, God damn.

[750] Um, it's so damn obvious.

[751] Um, well, I like to respect.

[752] This is your show.

[753] Yeah, yeah.

[754] No, no, no, but I, you're religious, I think.

[755] So I just, I don't, I didn't mean to take God's name and pain in front of you all do it not when you're not around.

[756] But, and yeah, Belichick, the fact that you two get to be a team like that is pretty incredible.

[757] Yeah, at the same time, you know, like he's young, motivated at already a coaching stint, learned from his previous stint as a coach where he got fired and then was just came in and he was ready and he wanted to prove to everybody and he was going to work as hard as possible i was ready i was ready to prove to everybody you know there was a lot of other guys in our team that were ready and you know it's just like you know everything lined up perfect storm of a lot of different events over long periods of time that all broke a certain way and yeah i if i would have missed out on one of those opportunities you know that would have been really hard for me because that's kind of person that is inside to me. You know, if I screw it up, then I don't feel like I may ever deserve another one.

[758] Well, you're going to kick your own ass.

[759] We learned that about you.

[760] You love to give yourself a nice lashing, I'm sure.

[761] Yeah.

[762] That's a good motivator.

[763] We have a real quick question because you just talked about religion and just reminded me. You grew up religious?

[764] Catholic?

[765] Catholic, yeah.

[766] So I wonder if those principles are folded into who you are and this being hard on yourself, having high values, perfection.

[767] It probably all ties together, right?

[768] In some way?

[769] Yeah.

[770] It could be from that.

[771] And certainly, you know, again, I think for me growing up, the support at home, like, I think my motivator was never to let anybody down, you know.

[772] Right.

[773] And I think in my career, like, you know, I've been in the same place for a long time, you know, in let's say in Boston.

[774] Like, you know, people weren't getting fired every year there, you know, because I was doing my job.

[775] And I didn't ever want to be the reason why we lost games.

[776] I didn't ever want to be a reason why something caused other people pain.

[777] You know, and that's probably a lot like my mom, my mom takes on everybody sure like a lot of moms out there takes on everybody's pain everybody's striped everybody's heartache she's just always the one taking it you know and some people could take it and like gone you know she takes it and lives it and i said there's a part of my mom that i'm probably more like her where i take that on and i just want peace i was just going to add that among these weird variables as you were talking i'm thinking you're uniquely coachable right you're uniquely open to seeing the team psychologist and listening to the one coach.

[778] And I was thinking, I have to imagine you benefited from having three older sisters as generic as that is to say.

[779] Like women, there's nothing, but I teach my daughter how to ride a motorcycle.

[780] She can get it in five seconds because she listens to me. She's not like me who's got a fucking so much to prove.

[781] I know everything.

[782] You can't teach me anything.

[783] I think maybe you just growing up with older sisters too made you more available to that kind of instruction.

[784] Yeah, and you know, I think you're growing up with three sisters, you're receptive to, you know, what's going on to the house?

[785] And you're probably a bit more intuitive emotionally, you know, because I'd say my sisters like to talk about a lot of things.

[786] And, you know, I didn't have a lot of bros in the house.

[787] You know, I had my friends.

[788] But, you know, really, I was like, my sisters would dress me up in their dress, you know, I was like, I was just a tag along, you know, I was just a tag along kids.

[789] So it's not my dad, like, he would try to get me, hey, you know, let's go play golf.

[790] let's go.

[791] And I love sports, so there's a great connection there.

[792] But I think I had the benefit of both those things, right?

[793] Three sisters at all, I definitely have athletic genes in my body, but then being around these fields and competition, sports, and wanting to win.

[794] And I would, I mean, I'd say another intangible that, let's say, wasn't speed or size or strength was very competitive.

[795] Like, I was a kid, man, I had a remote control and Nintendo.

[796] And if I lost, that remote got slammed on the floor 50 times, you know, and I mean, it would be blowing up.

[797] And I'd be Like, my sisters would be like, what is wrong with you?

[798] And I just, I'd be a rage of losing.

[799] That freaky chemical testosterone.

[800] That's right.

[801] So foreign to them.

[802] It was.

[803] And you just, it's exploded.

[804] You know, that still is the case.

[805] I mean, that's all good, good.

[806] And all of a sudden I just get so fucking mad, you know, and it's just, you know, that's part of my personality.

[807] You know, I read a lot of biographies of X Titans of Industry.

[808] I'm kind of obsessed with like Cornelius Vanderbilt.

[809] and Rockefeller and all these people.

[810] Yeah.

[811] And what they all shared in common was they construct this life that they really end up loving and then quickly transitions to longevity.

[812] They all became obsessed with like how to live really long because they, you know, they had done what they wanted and they created a world they loved being in.

[813] Yeah.

[814] And I'm wondering, what is it like for you?

[815] What you must have an interesting relationship with time, knowing that this thing you've dedicated your whole life to has a shelf, life and that'll end and that you're already technically kind of in borrowed time.

[816] Are you the oldest player in the league?

[817] I think so.

[818] I think I am.

[819] That's so wild, isn't it?

[820] I think I am.

[821] I'd like to have revert as most experienced.

[822] Yeah, I like that.

[823] Okay.

[824] But yes, I know what you mean.

[825] Okay.

[826] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[827] So I think you might be the most experienced player in the league.

[828] league right now.

[829] Were you always aware of it?

[830] Did you lose sight of it?

[831] Like, how conscious have you been of the time clock that's on your life?

[832] Yeah, I felt it naturally in sports, you're reminded of it all the time, you know, because it's every year, it's the new crop of kids and the draft and this and you know, and you're like, when's this guy going to be finished, you know?

[833] And I think, you know, emotionally it's a different thing because I would say football was my first love.

[834] And I started when I played, you know, on the street, in my neighborhood with my friends on Portola drive and St. Mateo, and that's where my happiest moments are.

[835] You know, outside of, I'd say my kids, you know, being with my family, being on the football field is pure joy.

[836] In the moment, living my very highest and best calling, you know, just literally like in the zone.

[837] You're born to do it.

[838] This is what you're born to do.

[839] I'm on the field the other day and I'm like, I just fucking love football.

[840] I don't know what it is.

[841] I just love it.

[842] And, you know, unfortunately for a lot of guys, they love it too.

[843] Some are physically not gifted enough to play.

[844] Some are physically gifted and something tragic happens.

[845] Personally, you know, it could be with them, could be some of their fan, they'll get the opportunity.

[846] And some have great potential and then two years in, injured, you know, and I think I got to a point in about, as I started to improve all those different things I talked about through college, take some more different supplements, a little more hydrated, you know, start to take care of my body.

[847] Then I started thinking about, wow, I'm feeling better now.

[848] Let's say it.

[849] age 27, 28, than I did when I was 23.

[850] Like, wow, that's really good.

[851] And by the way, I'd know a lot more now.

[852] Then I was 31.

[853] And I'm like, this is getting easier physically, not harder.

[854] My brain is learning more.

[855] Just like everyone in their career, what you do, you're going to get better at, right?

[856] What you put your mind, with your time and energy in, you're going to improve in, good or bad.

[857] And I started to think at that point, why am I going to stop playing?

[858] Why would, why would I stop?

[859] Because everyone would stop.

[860] and they definitely don't enjoy playing sports and football if you're hurting.

[861] And if you're in pain, you're not going to play.

[862] It's this, it's too hard.

[863] It's too much to overcome.

[864] So most guys, they just get to the point where their body hurts too much.

[865] Every day in practice, they're like, I can't do it.

[866] And for me, you know, I did something different.

[867] I took a different path.

[868] And that path of learning brought me to a guy who's my best friend.

[869] I still work with them every day.

[870] My business partner, Alex Guerrero.

[871] And it's like, we created this thing that I said, I really want to share.

[872] We talk about maximizing potential and everyone's going to.

[873] have that he taught me so much and the way that we've worked together has you know i have perspective i look at what everyone else is doing i'm in a locker room with every guy for 20 years i look at everything they're doing everything they're taking the way they eat the way they talk about their body and i'm just constantly going okay that doesn't work that doesn't oh that he's on to something that doesn't work and then you incorporate them in your routine and then you get to go prove it so what am i doing at 43 i'm still doing what i love to do so i have a bunch of sports endeavor they're all motorsports related and I just recently had a bad accident at the motorcycle track a week and a half ago.

[874] I'm supposed to be wearing a sling I just had surgery.

[875] I'm always I'm trying to figure out and it's hard.

[876] I'm like you know, when do I not have the skill set anymore?

[877] When is my age going to, when am I going to have to confront that this is no longer for me?

[878] And by the way, it scares the shit out of me to imagine not doing it.

[879] It's like one of the greatest sources of joy in my life.

[880] So have you felt any decline or how do you monitor that in yourself?

[881] Yeah, I think yes and no. I think I definitely feel like I have to work really hard at the recovery part of the sport.

[882] So it's not just like the physical training to prepare for it.

[883] It's the preparation for the performance, the performance, the recovery of the performance.

[884] And a lot of people have not traditionally prioritized that part, right?

[885] That's kind of a new movement to really be aware of the recovery aspect of all this.

[886] Yeah, because, you know, inherently we're taught that hard work is going to get you that everywhere you want to go.

[887] So if I can work out once a day, if I work out twice a day, I'll be better.

[888] And my view of that is if you're working hard at the wrong things, you're getting better at getting worse.

[889] So if you're working hard at the right things, you know what to do, you have the right routine, the right process, you work hard at those things.

[890] You're going to see significant improvement.

[891] You know, I could go out there and practice football plays.

[892] If they're all shitty football plays, I could run them five times, you know, I could run straight through a script and do it again and again and then go out and play a game.

[893] And you know what?

[894] They're still bad plays.

[895] So if you run a good routine, you have a good process, then I think you see the benefit.

[896] And if you see the benefit, then you're going to experience like, again, that's closer to your goal setting or what your priorities are, what you want to be.

[897] I want to be a better dad.

[898] I want to play with my kids.

[899] I want to play golf on the weekends.

[900] I want to ride my motorbike.

[901] I still want to have good instincts on the motorbike.

[902] want to be able to have, you know, great instincts on the bike and then absorb taking a different fall or a hit or I want to go skiing and not have my knees hurt.

[903] I want to go skiing and ski like I did.

[904] And I think all those things, because being active is, you know, for me, that's a very important part of my life.

[905] You know, it's like, I'm active every day.

[906] I just got to like, kind of like a kid.

[907] Like, I just got to burn some energy.

[908] Yeah.

[909] If I don't, then, you know, I just feel like agitated all day.

[910] And then that's kind of my heart.

[911] Yeah, there's a, there's a high and, you know, about training and working out.

[912] And then the fulfillment of, okay, I achieved something that, you know, I wanted to go train hard.

[913] I did.

[914] How do I recover for the next day?

[915] And then do it again and do it again and do it again and do it again.

[916] And practice, I didn't get good at it.

[917] I keep waiting for you to compliment me on how good I look in this shirt.

[918] You do look good.

[919] Because it is, it is your shirt.

[920] I'm wearing your shirt.

[921] You like it?

[922] It is your shirt.

[923] Yes, I love it.

[924] It's so comfy.

[925] And I'm a tall, lean guy with broad shoulders, not like yours, but not unlike yours.

[926] And I got to say, it fits me like a glove you look pretty good man i love it tb12 that's a line you have now alex and i basically have been working together since 2005 when i couldn't really throw the football you know i loved to be like you you know your voice doesn't work you know for me to be a quarterback my arm doesn't work i'm not going to have a job very long and i was basically wanted to be a great player and i knew that working hard was going to get me there and i would work out and i would train and i would lift weights because everyone says lift weights and condition and you know that's where you're going to get you know That's where you're going to be a better athlete.

[927] And then it got to a point where I couldn't throw the football because my elbow would hurt all the time.

[928] And really what happened was there was these muscles in my forearm got really tight.

[929] You know, you do curls and you curl your wrist.

[930] You can feel how tight your forearm gets.

[931] And then you do bicep curls because everyone's like, man, if you want to look good, you've got to have bicep curls.

[932] So you do bicep curls for the girls.

[933] Which is amazing.

[934] And I'm sure they love it, but you won't be able to throw a football.

[935] No, no, no. So, you know, you do your curls and you do your triceps.

[936] And then at the end of all those things after a period of time, all the muscles, get so tight and dense, they just pull in the opposite directions.

[937] And they pull and they pull and that little tendon is in there trying to hold on for dear life because you're putting all these forces on it from throwing, but you've got muscles that are pulling opposite directions.

[938] So when I met Alex to a friend of mine, a teammate of mine, he was like, this is what we're going to do.

[939] We're going to make these really short muscles long by a lot of manual tissue work.

[940] All these muscles in your bicep that you're going to make these long.

[941] And then we're going to make your trisome muscles long.

[942] And the muscle went from being really tight to now it's really.

[943] long so that when I would put forces on it, it would just, it would lightly contract as opposed to just pull the tendon apart.

[944] I was like, that makes so much sense.

[945] Like, there's a first time in my life that I didn't have elbow tendonitis playing football.

[946] Well, don't you think so much of the previous science, you even watch it like, I even see like the progression and coaching, right?

[947] Like we interviewed Pete Carroll.

[948] I love that dude.

[949] I love that he is like the way he communicates, the way he makes an effort to understand where the person's coming from and yelling at people and calling them assholes isn't really productive.

[950] Like, I just, I love that.

[951] And I think so much of sports is still mired in this kind of machismo bullshit, right?

[952] So it's like, yeah, fucking curls, tries for the guys, you know, this whole thing.

[953] And there's been no scientific study to support any of this.

[954] It's just kind of like this old fashioned.

[955] And I think even the diet, right, the diet used to be like, you eat a goddamn T -bone and three baked potatoes before a game, son.

[956] Yeah.

[957] You really seemed open to different approaches.

[958] Yeah.

[959] Tell me about your diet.

[960] So I have arthritis, I have an autoimmune thing, sorry, out of arthritis, and I've had to eat a certain way to not have inflammation.

[961] And then a friend of mine showed me your diet.

[962] And I was like, that's pretty close to my diet.

[963] Tell me how you got introduced to that and what change it's made for you.

[964] And is it fucking hard for you like it is for me. I find it hard.

[965] Yeah.

[966] It's not like you can't go to the 7 -Eleven and think you're going to find all the things you're looking for.

[967] I know that.

[968] But, you know, I think, again, it's, for me, it was about.

[969] you know, a little progress over time.

[970] And it started with, hey, let's cutting out some, you know, hot dogs.

[971] And then it was like subway.

[972] And then it was like, why don't we work toward like more proteins and veggies?

[973] And then it was like, okay, well, let's work more toward, you know, higher performance things.

[974] And let me try some more vegan meals.

[975] And when I met my wife in New York in 2007, there was a raw food restaurant, which I tried that for the first time.

[976] And then, and then it was like, okay a little less steak and then now it's like okay more vegetables and then over time what's noticed is like my taste buds change and i went yeah like all right i loved subway i love subway and burger king and all the all those types of things to now it's like a thought of that is like no way no way i would just if i want to eat a good meal i'm thinking lentil soup i'm thinking you know oh wow you know hummus and guacamole and this guy's the dream i know i can barely even stand it shut up i know shut up i'm just telling you the way it's just unfortunately we do have no tomatoes right you don't you don't fuck with tomatoes is that true i don't i don't like them that much so oh well that helps that's easy for me to kind of pass them up so but in general you do have an anti -inflammation approach is that true absolutely absolutely and i just looked at it again it for me it all relates back to football.

[977] I mean, in a way, you know, it was all because I felt like this was going to help me be a better football player.

[978] And if I could be a better football player, I don't want to, you know, I'm making all these improvements.

[979] How do I get a little bit better, a little bit better?

[980] And I think those things led me to be in a little more discipline, which I would say I was definitely born with that.

[981] But then also, all right, like, I can cut back on that.

[982] I don't even fucking like it anyway.

[983] I don't like it.

[984] Why do I have to eat it?

[985] You know, so why don't I adapt a little bit over time?

[986] And, you know, I would say anti -inflammation.

[987] Because if you go.

[988] workout for an hour and a half inflammation inflammation you know it's not healthy to go run you know 10 miles there's a lot of inflammation i would say running was good for your heart and for your head other than that there's a lot of downsides i wish you hadn't said this i bought monica treadmill for her birthday yesterday and now you're kind of ruining that president's sorry is it refundable Monica i'll look into it oh by you it's a great excuse for me to not go running actually No, I think, I just think some of the really extreme things, we know, they just take a toll on your body and they're a little bit taxing.

[989] So why am I going to go finish practice?

[990] So workout before practice, go practice and then come in and eat a bacon, double cheeseburger.

[991] So inflammation, inflammation.

[992] You know, so where to do you?

[993] What's your body going to do?

[994] Your body's going to go like, okay, I'm done.

[995] Like fight or flight.

[996] I had enough.

[997] tight muscles, slow movements, and then poor performance, and then look for a new job, and then talk about how great you could have been, because, you know, that's, that's it.

[998] Does your wife ever hate your guts?

[999] Because I kind of think about - No, do you know who his wife is?

[1000] I do, but if I lived with you, I think I would be like, God, he seems to just be so disciplined.

[1001] I could see it annoying someone, right?

[1002] But I'm sure she's the same way, right?

[1003] Is she the same way?

[1004] She's very disciplined.

[1005] Don't give me that shit.

[1006] You're very disciplined too.

[1007] Get that shit out of here.

[1008] Okay, okay.

[1009] What's he talking about?

[1010] He do sometimes eat dominoes.

[1011] I saw your wife walk across the field that the Olympics, right?

[1012] Was it the opening ceremony in Brazil?

[1013] Yeah.

[1014] That's the first time I ever realized, like, that's violent on the body.

[1015] Like, the model walk.

[1016] I know.

[1017] That was a long way to walk in those heels.

[1018] I was like, I don't think I've been giving these gals enough credit.

[1019] Like, that's hard on your body.

[1020] Yeah.

[1021] Yeah, she's had a fair share of, like, pretty tough injuries.

[1022] Just because in order to make a pitcher look good, you've got to create all these fun.

[1023] you know, crazy angles.

[1024] And then you got to hold them.

[1025] So you put your body in a funny position and then hold it for a minute.

[1026] And then once your brain's like, oh, you want me to be like this.

[1027] Okay, no problem.

[1028] I'll just hang upside down.

[1029] And then you get down, you're like, oh, God, this thing's killing me. So I think all those things over time took a toll.

[1030] You know, she's had her really bad shoulders.

[1031] She had like 10 dislocations on one side and 12 dislocations on the other.

[1032] You know, and she's very, she doesn't have very big joints, you know.

[1033] She's, I would say, more dainty.

[1034] She's tall, but dainty, so, you know, she just has these joints that are very hyper -mobile.

[1035] Is your boy on course to become seven feet tall?

[1036] I'd imagine with you to his parents, there's likelihood that we'll break 6 -8.

[1037] I don't know.

[1038] We don't want 6 -8.

[1039] I'm cool with like 6 -3, 6 -4, but that's too tall.

[1040] Okay, I have a couple of really just rapid -fire questions for you.

[1041] I'm going to ask a single Howard Stern -esque question, and that is, do you make love to your wife on a game day?

[1042] Or is that off the table?

[1043] Oh, man, that's probably off the table.

[1044] That's off the table, right?

[1045] I wouldn't say it's probably never happened, but I don't think that would be the moment.

[1046] Okay, good.

[1047] I expected that.

[1048] Yeah, that wouldn't be my pre -game warm up.

[1049] Do you have other quarterback friends?

[1050] You know, the more famous you get, the more successful you get it, and I don't expect anyone to shed a tear for any of us, but it can be very isolating in that very few people really end up being able to relate to what your day -to -day problems are, and you'd probably feel like a shithead telling some, you know, guy who's scraping pain off a wall, your issues.

[1051] But do you have some friendships with some quarterbacks that you can relate to one another?

[1052] Yeah, for sure.

[1053] I think there's a lot of guys over the years, Brett Farr, Peyton Manning, even Joe Montana, Steve Young, those are the guys at Dan Marino, Phil Sims, Boomer Assize, and the newer guys, Russell Wilson, obviously, Aaron Rogers, been a friend.

[1054] Oh, he's a sweetheart, huh?

[1055] I'm coming out with him once or twice.

[1056] He comes from my alma mater, I think.

[1057] Cal?

[1058] Oh, dang it.

[1059] From Georgia.

[1060] Georgia.

[1061] Not many good quarterbacks out of Georgia.

[1062] Oh, well, I'm not surprised about that.

[1063] No, Matt Stafford plays.

[1064] Well, okay.

[1065] He's got a quarterbacking.

[1066] Yeah, he did.

[1067] Well, I was there.

[1068] I can't say anything bad about him.

[1069] He plays in Detroit, and that's where I'm front.

[1070] Wait, I think you're also friends with my boyfriends.

[1071] Are you friends with Ben and Matt?

[1072] Ben Rotsberger?

[1073] No, Ben Affleck and Matt Day.

[1074] Oh, yeah, yeah, them actors, yes.

[1075] I am.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] I like both those guys.

[1078] Those silly boys.

[1079] Yeah, I'm friends with me. Okay.

[1080] Another two questions, really quick.

[1081] Is it isolating being the leader of the team?

[1082] Is it hard to be?

[1083] Because I find myself sometimes when I direct things, I'm the boss, which is a weird position for me to have.

[1084] And I just want to be cool with everyone.

[1085] And then I hate when I have to be like, come on, man, you can work harder than that.

[1086] Is it isolating?

[1087] You can't have any down days.

[1088] You know, I think if there's moments that have changed in my life, it's hard to just let your guard down as you know i mean everyone knows that you know we're in a very hypersensitive age to everything you know and you're judged by one interaction and you know in that case you don't want to be judged by one interaction so you don't go out because you don't want to be put in a situation where man i had a really shitty day you know well how is you know i don't know no one wants to hear that a really shitty day but i had a shitty day it's life you know i'm a parent i'm a brother i'm a son you know things happen in life and you get bad calls and you got to deal with situations and know, then you got to go out in public and be like, hey, you know, this is, this is great, you know, and I think that mental fatigue, you know, over time is like, I will be happy one day when I retire.

[1089] I'm going to be like, I done it.

[1090] Like, that's it.

[1091] Someone else be in charge.

[1092] Yeah, like, man, I did my time.

[1093] I did it.

[1094] I work hard at it, but you know what?

[1095] The time is over and I'm not looking to recreate any that.

[1096] That was going to be one of my other rapid fire questions because we're in the rapid fire round right now.

[1097] And I have followed, again, I know I've said this 20 times.

[1098] I don't watch a ton of sports, but I'm so interested in athletes, and I love watching documentaries about athletes.

[1099] And a common thing I seem to have observed is that post -career, and I think on the outside, people think it has to do with money and fame, and it's not at all, but the camaraderie that you've experienced over the last 21 years, that's a big fucking hole to Phil.

[1100] And I think it was Brett Farv, who's very open and honest in some documentary I watched, where he was like, there was just a fucking hole.

[1101] right and he ended up i think coaching like maybe his high school yeah like a high school team just to get back in the mix like i worry about you i wonder do you have a game plan for when you retired so that you don't become super sad no i think i i think i definitely will need some help when i'm done playing to find some space to occupy the adrenaline the ups the downs the highs the lows of this and i'm a big believer in psychology and you know getting help i i've already obviously thought okay when it does happen i'm filling a huge void and i don't know where that huge void's going to go and it's not going to be like hey i'm going to be someone who doesn't want to put the energy that i have into something positive and you know i'm still when i want to do things but at the same time i'm missing something that i really did love it would be like a really you know like a tough breakup yeah i'm nervous for you yeah look if you want to be bros i'm at your disposal i'm in bro uh I thought we already started, man. What do you mean?

[1102] No, no, we're there.

[1103] We're there.

[1104] I'm laying into it too much.

[1105] I have a question.

[1106] What price have you paid for being so singularly focused on this endeavor?

[1107] I think the thing that probably hurt that is most challenging for me is like when people say like, probably haven't been the brother that I could be, you know, couldn't be a friend to certain people at different times, you know?

[1108] And my parents, I think I'm a pretty good.

[1109] son like but at the same time like sometimes the people close you get the short and a stick because you're always busy you've always got one of the thing you always got work you always got one more obligation one more call one more this and everyone else who you think is we're oh we're cool so you can stay kind of you know as a non -priority and yeah you can take it for granted right like oh that's there we know we love each other and i'll have time someday i'll have time when when football's done i'll have time when football's time time time and And, you know, I would have more time, but that's probably the thing that's probably been the toughest because that's hard to hear, you know, like you think I'll put all that effort into things.

[1110] But the reality is other people, especially in your life, you know, they're going to get better if you work at it and improve it.

[1111] But if you don't, then, you know, it takes a different, you know, a different ride.

[1112] And now, okay, I think my last question, I would love to keep you for 10 hours, but what's the emotional experience of having left Boston after 21 years and going to a new team?

[1113] and I just want to add into this because I want Monica to know.

[1114] You know, Tom could have gotten a lot more money for many years and he didn't take more so that he could get better players.

[1115] Like his commitment to winning.

[1116] I know.

[1117] Did you read the Pat Tillman book by chance where men find glory?

[1118] No, I didn't.

[1119] Oh, do I encourage that?

[1120] Similar story to you.

[1121] I mean, he last draft to the Cardinals and he was so loyal to that franchise.

[1122] He turned down way more money to play for St. Louis because they took the chance on him.

[1123] just so much integrity that guy really inspirational yeah what was what's the emotional feeling about leaving there and going to Tampa Bay it was tough I mean it was tough for you know a tough decision to make when you're been two decades in one place and you know it's a lot of emotions a lot of memories there's a lot of things you know 20 years a long time so you basically experience every emotion and every high and low and every you know experience you could have so when you leave it's a you know it's kind of the chapter's closed but you're taking all the relationships and all the memories and for one reason another it didn't work that i was going to continue there but you know it doesn't take away from what i had and what i had was actually made me more prepared for what i'm experiencing now so for me to look at that experience and be grateful for what i've learned the relationships i have because they'll still be very important to me you know football players we're all in a locker room you know it's like we're it's like we're going to space you know it's like Like there's four or five months with that locker room is tight, tight.

[1124] And then you have that with friends, and it's like, it's, you know, it's amazing.

[1125] So I got to plug this in or else my computer's going to die.

[1126] Okay.

[1127] Hold on.

[1128] I got one percent left.

[1129] This is great.

[1130] Watching him have to figure this out, right?

[1131] Look how human he looks all of a sudden.

[1132] He was, he did look like a superhero this whole time.

[1133] And now he looks like the same bumbling idiot we all are.

[1134] No, it was at one percent.

[1135] And he, just like Tom Brady does, pulled it out.

[1136] Wow, last minute.

[1137] Oh, yeah, this is like a down -to -the -wire.

[1138] Yeah, 1 %.

[1139] You got to finish the interview with 1 % last.

[1140] Yeah, well, I'm sure you've done the math.

[1141] I mean, half of your life was playing for that team.

[1142] It's incredible.

[1143] 20 years of, you know, one place, one way, one process.

[1144] I've had a few different homes over that.

[1145] I moved a few times, but it was incredible.

[1146] It was perfect.

[1147] I wouldn't change it.

[1148] It wasn't, you know, not every day was perfect, but it was everything that it was supposed to be.

[1149] So one thing, too, that I think is really special about.

[1150] your job in your life is that I'd compare it to acting a little bit like you get on a set man there is someone from every walk of life there and I have to imagine half of the fun of your job is what a diverse group of dudes every socioeconomic group every kind of background like has it been wonderful to be immersed in so much diversity and different points of view yeah yeah I mean I think sports affords all those things and I've been doing that for you know 25 years including college and 30 years, including high school.

[1151] And you come together, you just see a guy, and you see where he's from, and you see who he is, and you see him as a brother.

[1152] And you go, all right, we're in this together.

[1153] Let's see what you got.

[1154] You know, you look in the huddle and I played with teammates that broke bones and broke ribs and internal bleeding and, you know, blood coming out of their nose.

[1155] They're warriors, you know, they're gladiators.

[1156] And I think you, I always say, I know the guys who had won.

[1157] If I was ever in a foxhole, I know the guys that I'd won and they're with me, you know?

[1158] Yeah.

[1159] There's others that I know that I wouldn't.

[1160] Sports brings that out of us.

[1161] And it's like, you know, you see everyone, they're good, they're bad, they're ugly, they're indifferent, they're pissed off mood, they're happy mood, the achievement of things.

[1162] And, you know, it's been a blessing for me. I don't want to end, which is probably why I'm still playing, you know.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] Well, I hope you don't stop.

[1165] I think it'd be so awesome if you were out there in a wheelchair and you rolled back and still drop that phone idiot.

[1166] I'm getting wheeled out there.

[1167] One more throw.

[1168] I got it in there.

[1169] Well, Tom Brady, you're as nice as you are gorgeous, and we feel so flattered that you took time to talk to us.

[1170] We were really, really excited.

[1171] You were in the Bill Gates category of, like, thrill that you were willing to talk to us.

[1172] So, thanks so much for your time.

[1173] Really look forward to seeing you play in Tampa Bay.

[1174] And, you know, anytime you want to chill with me, just let me know, I'll be there.

[1175] I'll call you up.

[1176] Let's do it.

[1177] All right.

[1178] All right, man. Thanks a bunch.

[1179] Thank you, guys.

[1180] Appreciate it.

[1181] All right, good luck with you.

[1182] And now my favorite problem.

[1183] part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1184] Do you think that your burbs have increased as you've aged?

[1185] Nah.

[1186] We've always had lots of burbs.

[1187] Good question.

[1188] Well, I think they've increased in the last four days because I am doing more oral nicotine.

[1189] Sure.

[1190] And that gives me burbs.

[1191] Also, Diet Coke, when I slam Diet Coke's, which I've been doing today.

[1192] Yeah.

[1193] Yeah, they give me some more burbs.

[1194] John Mullaney has a really funny bit in, I think, his last special about, about burping a lot as he gets older.

[1195] Oh, okay.

[1196] And, like, talking through burbs.

[1197] It's really, really funny.

[1198] That is funny.

[1199] It makes me think of my father, because my father used to, you know, he ate like no one I've ever seen.

[1200] It was so impressive.

[1201] He'd make, like, a pizza with nachos on top of the pizza and two chicken breasts and mustard and salsa all over everything.

[1202] It was crazy what he would eat.

[1203] And then, you know, expectedly, he would get tremendous heartburn.

[1204] He was always dealing with heartburn.

[1205] heartburn, right?

[1206] Yeah.

[1207] Poppin Xanax and this and that.

[1208] When it got really bad, he'd take a tablespoon of baking soda and eat it.

[1209] No. Yes.

[1210] And then he would ride around on the couch, like positioning his body.

[1211] And then he would let out the most incredible growl, like a lion roar.

[1212] Fart?

[1213] And he'd, no, no, a burp.

[1214] And he go, ooh, a couple more of those.

[1215] Oh, my God.

[1216] Did it scare you?

[1217] It was like he was delivering a baby.

[1218] be.

[1219] No, I think I was just judgmental.

[1220] I'm like, Jesus Christ, look at this position you've gotten yourself in where you got to eat baking soda.

[1221] Like, who's eating raw baking soda?

[1222] A doctor could not have recommended that to him.

[1223] That must just have been his own trial and air.

[1224] Do you think he just loved the taste of food or do you think he just needed mass quantities of things?

[1225] Well, I think because of all of his auto accidents, he couldn't smell, you know, I've told you about that.

[1226] It was great freedom to be.

[1227] around him because you could too cross your mind whether or not he would smell it.

[1228] So I don't think he was smelling all that well, which explains like he'd go through a bottle of Tabasco probably every four days.

[1229] He was just covering everything with Tabasco.

[1230] So I don't think it was for the taste as much as just, you know, he's an addict like I am.

[1231] And he had the food aspect of it really bad.

[1232] I've been super blessed that.

[1233] Well, you've seen me eat addicty for sure, but I can put that off.

[1234] The frequency is very low for me. But when I go for it, I go for it.

[1235] I often think if he was just my buddy and not my dad, I probably would have got such a bang out of him and enjoyed all the stuff.

[1236] Of course.

[1237] Yeah, because it's kind of like Aaron weekly a bit, you know?

[1238] Yeah, which I find to be really funny when Aaron does that stuff.

[1239] But with my dad, I was disappointed.

[1240] Aaron sent me a very sweet birthday card that was a penis.

[1241] A penis person.

[1242] Yeah.

[1243] Kind of like my ball set, cowboy character.

[1244] Exactly.

[1245] And I'm going to print it and add it to my dirty art collection.

[1246] Oh, that's great.

[1247] I think he was really flattered with how much you liked it.

[1248] Yeah, I loved it.

[1249] It's so cute.

[1250] Going back to burps.

[1251] Yeah, back to burbs.

[1252] I am very, very rarely burp.

[1253] I know.

[1254] I know.

[1255] You almost never, I can't even think of one in my memory.

[1256] Same.

[1257] Same.

[1258] I mean, I have, but it's rare.

[1259] Well, you don't drink.

[1260] Well, that's not true.

[1261] You drink your Perrier and your spin drifts.

[1262] You like a carbonation.

[1263] Yeah.

[1264] So I don't know why you're not having more.

[1265] Same.

[1266] Do you think it's a deficiency or a superpower or both?

[1267] I have to imagine, well, because they say right that some animals can't burp or fart.

[1268] Have you heard this?

[1269] No. They can't fart?

[1270] I don't know.

[1271] It's probably a Wives tale or urban legend or something, but I feel like I heard certain animals can't express gas.

[1272] So you can't feed them certain things or they'll blow up.

[1273] Oh, no. I've never heard a bird fart.

[1274] Have you?

[1275] No. But I've been pooped on by birds.

[1276] It makes me think that you would have heard one fart by now.

[1277] But how would we have heard it?

[1278] They're so high up.

[1279] Well, you could hear, like, if Aaron were in a tree outside our house and he farted, you'd hear it.

[1280] I mean, he has a bigger bottom hole than birds.

[1281] Birds have the tiniest rectum.

[1282] I'm going to Google this.

[1283] Okay.

[1284] Hold on.

[1285] Do birds fart?

[1286] Birds have an anus, and so technically could fart, but to date, there's been no official evidence that they do.

[1287] It's also possible that ornithologists, have missed bird farts because they leak out passively rather than in one eruption.

[1288] Or birds could be burping to release unwanted gas.

[1289] Wow.

[1290] Yeah, that's, that was, oh, and that's a BBC science focus magazine.

[1291] So that's, um.

[1292] That's reputable.

[1293] This is a Vox article.

[1294] Does it fart?

[1295] Which animals fart, which don't.

[1296] And why?

[1297] Oh, here we go.

[1298] Pay dirt.

[1299] Do you know what that term means pay dirt?

[1300] I never heard it.

[1301] It's when miners were like mining for gold and they'd find a stream of gold.

[1302] And that's that pay dirt.

[1303] Oh.

[1304] This is from Vox.

[1305] I want to credit the authors.

[1306] And specifically, it's by Brian Resnick.

[1307] Farting across the animal kingdom is wonderfully diverse.

[1308] A new book explains.

[1309] Let's see.

[1310] Arangetans?

[1311] Yes.

[1312] Salamanders?

[1313] Maybe.

[1314] Sloths?

[1315] No. Oh.

[1316] Okay.

[1317] Well, there you go.

[1318] Oh, do snakes fart?

[1319] And she didn't know the answer.

[1320] Well, there's, we on earthed a whole world here.

[1321] Oh, my God.

[1322] It's a wormhole.

[1323] hole.

[1324] Do you think worms pass gas through their hole?

[1325] Absolutely not.

[1326] Okay.

[1327] Okay, I think this is ran out of gas.

[1328] Yeah, I think we're done with that.

[1329] Pun intended.

[1330] Uh -huh.

[1331] Oh, no. That might have been the meanest thing you've ever done to me. Why?

[1332] I like it.

[1333] Like a bad laugh.

[1334] That's what you do with puns.

[1335] Oh, punny.

[1336] Yeah.

[1337] Because they're not punny.

[1338] Okay.

[1339] So when you and Tom were talking about height, you said Vince Vaughn is a giant.

[1340] Yes.

[1341] And that he's roughly Tom, 80's height.

[1342] Now, Vince is 6 .5, according to the internet.

[1343] Mm -hmm.

[1344] And Thomas 6 -4, according to the internet.

[1345] He's 6 -5.

[1346] I mean, having stood next to him, unless he had, like, really big heels on, I didn't.

[1347] But didn't he tell us also he was 6 -4?

[1348] I thought he said 6 -5.

[1349] Oh, shoot.

[1350] I don't remember.

[1351] Yeah.

[1352] Okay.

[1353] We'll let the arm cherries correct us in the comments.

[1354] So you said there was a documentary with John Daly and Tiger Woods.

[1355] Mm -hmm.

[1356] I couldn't find a doc, but this story is out there.

[1357] It's like in articles, and I think maybe he talked about it on stern.

[1358] Oh, pop.

[1359] So maybe you heard it on stern.

[1360] Possible, yeah.

[1361] Sounds like he tells his story a lot.

[1362] John Daly?

[1363] Yeah.

[1364] Which is sad.

[1365] There's so many layers to all of it.

[1366] Well, one is the irony that it would appear that Tiger did have some drinking issues.

[1367] He had D .R. Right.

[1368] and stuff.

[1369] Right.

[1370] I don't know.

[1371] I mean, I'm not saying he's an addict or anything.

[1372] I don't really know.

[1373] I just know that he's had consequences from drinking.

[1374] And what breaks my heart about it for John Daly is that that is kind of his claim to fame, which is, oh, Tiger said I have more natural talent than him.

[1375] But that should be really sad.

[1376] That shouldn't be something that he wants to tell people because he could have been brilliant.

[1377] Yeah.

[1378] And yeah, and he was too big of a party animal.

[1379] Speaking of games.

[1380] Mm -hmm.

[1381] and winning and stuff.

[1382] Yeah.

[1383] We have this conversation last night.

[1384] So Jess, Matt, Laura, and I are in a really intense Spades tournament.

[1385] Uh -huh.

[1386] We've gotten really into Spades.

[1387] Laura and I are currently partners against Jess and Matt.

[1388] Now, Spades is a game of technique, for sure.

[1389] Strategy.

[1390] Thank you.

[1391] Of strategy.

[1392] But there is only so much you can do.

[1393] When you have shit cards.

[1394] Yes.

[1395] Yeah.

[1396] Like, Laura was getting really upset because our games were not going great.

[1397] We were getting really shitty hands over and over and over again.

[1398] She was getting really upset.

[1399] And I said, you know, if I'm just dealt a shitty hand, I don't actually feel that competitive.

[1400] Like, I don't feel that bad after.

[1401] Yeah.

[1402] But if I...

[1403] Fuck up a great hand.

[1404] Yeah.

[1405] If I make a mistake, then I'm so upset.

[1406] Yeah.

[1407] And she was the eye.

[1408] opposite.

[1409] She said if she just gets dealt a shitty hand, she's like, what's the point?

[1410] And then she gets really mad.

[1411] So I thought that was an interesting.

[1412] That's counterintuitive because, you know, this well -documented proclivity we have for loss aversion, right?

[1413] A loss -aversion bias.

[1414] So it would make sense to you to prefer to have shitty hands and do nothing with it than have a great...

[1415] And lose it.

[1416] Yeah.

[1417] You've lost an opportunity as opposed to created one.

[1418] Exactly.

[1419] And you are the reason that it does.

[1420] didn't work out as opposed to blaming it on some external thing.

[1421] Yeah.

[1422] Yeah, she felt differently, which I thought was really interesting.

[1423] That should make you guys a good team because you're bringing different perspectives to it.

[1424] I know.

[1425] I felt like my antidepressants were working because I didn't feel that upset.

[1426] Oh, that's great.

[1427] Also, we should maybe announce that Laura has joined us in working on armchair expert, which is really fun.

[1428] Yeah, she's helping me edit.

[1429] Yeah.

[1430] And it's a real testament to Laura's skill set that you would trust her.

[1431] Yes.

[1432] I don't trust very easily.

[1433] That's the ultimate bar to pass is the Monica standards.

[1434] I don't trust very easily.

[1435] Yeah.

[1436] I have a lot of control issues.

[1437] Okay, but I'm just going to read the John Daly Tiger Woods little story.

[1438] Okay, great.

[1439] Okay.

[1440] It was during the 2004 Target World Challenge and Daly had just completed the Wednesday proam with some friends and was in the clubhouse drinking and telling stories when Tiger Woods walked into the room.

[1441] Tiger's there in his workout clothes and I said, Tiger, come have a beer with us, man. Daylor recalls.

[1442] Woods declined explaining that he was bound for the gym in one of his ubiquitous workout sessions.

[1443] Daily persisted.

[1444] I go, man, you don't need to work out.

[1445] You need to drink a little bit with us.

[1446] Woods' answer is the stuff of legend.

[1447] He said, if I had your talent, I'd be doing the same thing you're doing, Daly said.

[1448] And then he coughed?

[1449] Yeah, then he coughed.

[1450] Okay.

[1451] He cleared his throat, then he coughed.

[1452] Daly says, I'm looking at him thinking, you're crazy, man. You're crazy, man. That's good.

[1453] That was a good John Daly.

[1454] Thanks.

[1455] Especially having never seen him or heard him.

[1456] Thank you.

[1457] I was channeling like my version of him.

[1458] I were to play him in a bio pit.

[1459] Yeah.

[1460] You're likely to get.

[1461] By the way, after seeing Hamilton, yeah, I think you could do it.

[1462] It was such a paradigm shudder for me. that's not the same as me playing a male white golfer.

[1463] There's all kinds of reasons why you'd be a bad pick.

[1464] You know, you don't look like a golfer.

[1465] You don't have the size.

[1466] You're female and he was male.

[1467] You're of Indian origin.

[1468] He was a honky.

[1469] Yeah.

[1470] There's a bunch of reasons.

[1471] But, you know, the fact that Aaron Burr is Leslie Odom Jr. But that's because he, that's only one thing there.

[1472] Right.

[1473] But it does lead me to believe that.

[1474] the story is the king.

[1475] The story is what is compelling.

[1476] Yeah, you're right.

[1477] It was the face of the story, per se.

[1478] I'm going to do it.

[1479] You should, you and I should make, oh, my God.

[1480] This would be an incredible art installation.

[1481] Oh, my God.

[1482] Oh, that'd be great.

[1483] I was thinking in terms of Hamilton, and it doesn't matter to me, but I did think about the fact that my kids have been introduced to both Alexander Hamilton being played by, Lin -Manuel, and then black Aaron Burr, black George Washington, that in their mind they may think of those historical figures as black for the rest of their life.

[1484] I don't think they will.

[1485] You don't?

[1486] No. Because I've got to say I kind of know associating Aaron Burr with being black.

[1487] Because I've never seen a photo of Aaron Burr.

[1488] That's interesting.

[1489] And, yeah, I've just never seen Aaron Burr be acted.

[1490] Right.

[1491] And the only time I've seen it, it was by Leslie.

[1492] So, yeah, maybe.

[1493] My image of him in my mind is a little bit.

[1494] Skewed by that.

[1495] Yeah, fucking gorgeous.

[1496] Interesting.

[1497] Yeah.

[1498] Only I think I didn't need to shoot anyone, he should have been making love.

[1499] Leslie's so attractive.

[1500] He is.

[1501] Swag, swag, swag, swag.

[1502] Okay, what's the name of the documentary you watch?

[1503] A lot of documentary talk.

[1504] Ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1505] I'm aware.

[1506] Dingles, dingles.

[1507] Where Brett Farr?

[1508] I can guess.

[1509] I bet it was an HBO Real Sports.

[1510] The documentary about being deprived.

[1511] after retiring, I think, maybe comes from the documentary series, State of Play, Happiness.

[1512] Oh, boy.

[1513] HBO, Doc series, State of Play, Happiness.

[1514] It's very possible.

[1515] I watch almost everything Doc wise on HBO.

[1516] They've built a lot of trust with me. Oh, we're currently in the middle of a great one.

[1517] On Nexium.

[1518] Oh, can't wait for Sunday.

[1519] The vow.

[1520] Me either.

[1521] Yeah.

[1522] I wish they would release two at once.

[1523] Me too.

[1524] I was so appreciative of ESPN for doing it that way with Last Dance.

[1525] Remember they did 2 -2 -2 -2?

[1526] Yes.

[1527] What's that terrible subway commercial?

[1528] I think $10 foot line.

[1529] Oh, no. $4 foot long, $6?

[1530] $5.

[1531] $5.

[1532] The way the guy sings is terrible.

[1533] He's like, $5 foot line.

[1534] I forgot about that.

[1535] There's been some interesting choices in VO work over the years in commercials.

[1536] But look, we're still talking about it.

[1537] That's true.

[1538] $5 .00 foot line.

[1539] The one that used to drive me bonkers, and I made a short about it while I was at the Groundlings was those Carl's Jr. commercials where the guy would go, I can't, I'm going to cover my face so you don't puke.

[1540] Burger, fries, and they kick.

[1541] Oh.

[1542] Don't bother me. I'm eating.

[1543] And I was like, oh, like, would they find the most over -it dude on the planet?

[1544] I'm going to do it one more time, okay?

[1545] Burger, fries, and cook.

[1546] Don't bother me. I'm eating.

[1547] Wow.

[1548] Well, do me a favor, friend.

[1549] After you're done eating, fucking jump off of a tall pier.

[1550] Oh, no. Okay.

[1551] Okay, you're really offended by.

[1552] Oh, here we go again.

[1553] Burger fries and kick.

[1554] So, Josh Nathan and I made this short where we'd go, it started with normal burgers, fries and a Coke.

[1555] It was shot, just like the Carl's Jr. commercial, we're like a basketball, like outdoor basketball thing.

[1556] We got our burger fries and a Coke.

[1557] And then we kept adding things, so it went, burger fries, Metallica LP, and a kick.

[1558] And we'd show the Metallic LP.

[1559] And then Josh went and he goes, Burger fries, Metallica LP, Transam Miniature, and a kick.

[1560] And we'd show my Trans -Am Monster.

[1561] That's fun.

[1562] But see, you're still talking about it.

[1563] Yep, I am.

[1564] And I'm now really in the mood for Carl Sr. That Starburger is fucking tasty.

[1565] It's got really fresh onions on it.

[1566] Oh, my gosh.

[1567] Can I get you an onion, by the way?

[1568] Oh, my God.

[1569] I'm so rude.

[1570] I forgot to offer you an onion when you got out of your.

[1571] I'm so sorry.

[1572] Oh, man, I'm so rude.

[1573] You're supposed to have that southern hospitality.

[1574] I do not.

[1575] That's all.

[1576] There weren't really many facts.

[1577] Okay, well, just...

[1578] Well, there is one fact.

[1579] Oh.

[1580] Tom is hot.

[1581] Yeah, he is stone cold hot.

[1582] I got to say, I was really pleased with how well he took our objectification of his looks.

[1583] Yeah.

[1584] He played ball with us, and I was really appreciative.

[1585] Me too.

[1586] He's a good sport.

[1587] Tie in, ding ding ding ding ding.

[1588] Pun intended.

[1589] All right, love you, ding, ding, ding.

[1590] Love you.

[1591] expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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