Elisabeth Moss

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Rather.

[2] I'm joined by Mr. Mouse.

[3] Hi.

[4] Mr. Moss?

[5] Oh, Mr. Moss.

[6] Oh, we have our favorite actress on today.

[7] Oh, my God, is she good.

[8] What a powerhouse.

[9] Elizabeth Moss.

[10] She is an Emmy Award -winning actor.

[11] 14 nominations.

[12] A producer and a director.

[13] The Handmaid's Tale has blown our mind for years.

[14] Also, Mad Men.

[15] I mean, and West Wing, like, she's, He's been in everything amazing.

[16] The Invisible Man. Top of the Lake.

[17] Season 5 is out now of The Handmaid's Tale.

[18] And what is fun about this and was fun for us is a joyful, playful little creature.

[19] She really is.

[20] If you come to see her suffering weekly on The Handmaid's Tale, you would think, oh, this gal is probably very melancholy.

[21] Yes.

[22] She is a ray of sunshine.

[23] She really was.

[24] It was so nice to see that part.

[25] Yeah, I agree.

[26] Please enjoy Elizabeth Moss.

[27] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[28] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[29] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[30] He's an armchair expert.

[31] I love bags and I got it.

[32] It's a little different room cars I would have.

[33] The price point.

[34] I put many of my purchases up against y 'all's bags.

[35] The bag would.

[36] That the bag was more.

[37] If you get an Armez bag, that's on par.

[38] Kelly bag.

[39] I'm not buying Kelly.

[40] You're not going Kelly bags.

[41] Good for you.

[42] That's not what's happening.

[43] We buy everyone who's a guest on the show.

[44] Who are everyone loves this show?

[45] That's why we're in the red.

[46] It's so popular.

[47] It's super popular, but in the red.

[48] We cannot have to turn around.

[49] It's so weird.

[50] Why is it so popular?

[51] I was confused by the address, because I'm from, I'm L .A. You know what I mean?

[52] And I was like, and I looked it up and I was like, what gated house is right there?

[53] And then I see it's like, and we have a gate that goes into Loughlin Park.

[54] Normal people would have closed that off and just use Loughlin Park.

[55] But I have a 45 foot tour bus.

[56] I have to pull in and out.

[57] And you can't do it in the neighborhood.

[58] So we made it even bigger the access from.

[59] Is it out there?

[60] No, it's not.

[61] It's not.

[62] It's being repaired in Texas.

[63] I would have said some.

[64] Okay.

[65] Yeah.

[66] You would have noticed.

[67] Is that the kind of thing you would have.

[68] Is that the kind of thing you would have?

[69] Is that.

[70] Is that kind of thing you would have?

[71] Is that?

[72] Is that.

[73] Is that is that?

[74] Is that kind of thing?

[75] Is that is it?

[76] Is that would notice you'd be shocked some guests they roll right by like it looks like aerosmith spent the night here last night and it's not any curiosity to them i think the combination of like the pool the tour bus the construction i would have said something would have been like this is a lot going on out there yes it's a very active space it's an active set the set is hot the set is hot and the weapons are hot everything's hot everything's hot it's live this is a weird question that i don't know if it's appropriate but were you at the emmy's last night?

[77] I was not at the amused, and I like that you thought that was inappropriate.

[78] Because I was like, well, if she...

[79] Right, like, if I was nominated and you, like, didn't know.

[80] And, like, yeah, I was like, absurd.

[81] Because I think you would be nominated for every Emmy ever.

[82] I was nominated and I won last thing.

[83] Oh, my God, congratulations.

[84] Thank you.

[85] And I'm offended, you don't know.

[86] See where it's like, the worst thing you could do is ask somebody if they were in the movie you just saw.

[87] Right.

[88] That would be like, ooh.

[89] Yes, I was.

[90] I was third on the call sheet.

[91] It's pretty relevant in that film.

[92] And I guess in a weird way, it was a television production.

[93] And asking if you were there seems a little bit like she could have been there and you missed her.

[94] Because she always could have been there.

[95] You've been nominated 14 times?

[96] I don't actually know.

[97] I do.

[98] I just read about you.

[99] There you go.

[100] Is that right?

[101] I'm happy to go with 14.

[102] I think it's a little much.

[103] I hope you're embarrassed by that number.

[104] It's a little greedy.

[105] Now here's something I want to ask you about right out of the gates now that we're on the Emmys.

[106] You've been nominated 14 times, but you've won twice.

[107] That means you've gone 12.

[108] times.

[109] Let me also say it's not something I've ever coveted.

[110] Good for you.

[111] I think I realistically assess my skill set, which is I'm not going to win one of those.

[112] I'm not even in pursuit of one.

[113] But I do go to those things occasionally because my wife's either hosting or I'm presenting.

[114] They're not entirely for me just in general.

[115] And then I think, how many times would I have to come where they nominate me where I finally would be like, I'm not coming, guys.

[116] Unless you somehow tell me to be there.

[117] Like I can't do the whole thing again to sit there and be the person that doesn't get it.

[118] Totally.

[119] Have you have those feelings?

[120] Of course, which is sort of a very ungrateful thing to say.

[121] This is normal.

[122] I've lost so many more times than I've won.

[123] So I'm much more used to losing is the thing.

[124] So for me, my experience of going to the Emmys is going and trying to enjoy it and seeing people that I know being absolutely terrified, extremely nervous the entire evening and then losing.

[125] Right.

[126] And then being exhausted.

[127] And then the cherry on the cake is that you lost.

[128] People get worried about making the speech.

[129] Give me the speech.

[130] I'm fine with that.

[131] Also announce my name I want.

[132] I can handle that.

[133] The close -up of me being a grateful loser.

[134] I feel like is the greatest acting challenge of all time.

[135] You get really good at it.

[136] You do.

[137] Yeah.

[138] I guess you've got to act happy for the person who want.

[139] Yes.

[140] Yes.

[141] And humble.

[142] This was the right choice.

[143] Justice was served here today.

[144] It's such a weird, heady experience.

[145] I don't know if it's like this for everybody, but it's just so out of body.

[146] when they're reading the names, and that doesn't get old.

[147] I remember, I think it was Amy Poehler who once described it as in those last seconds before they read the name when they're opening the envelope, you think you're going to win.

[148] Even if you have fully prepared yourself to lose, the buildup and the tension is so...

[149] Well, you can't rehearse for the physiological response to the experience.

[150] Your body's going to take over.

[151] Exactly.

[152] So as far as the, like, reaction to losing, you're just...

[153] so out of your head and frozen and just kind of like, I can't believe what's going on at all that it's easier than you'd think.

[154] Okay.

[155] Oh, I'm going to go for one now.

[156] I'm going to come out of retirement.

[157] There's a whole friend's episode about the gracious loser face.

[158] Oh, there is.

[159] They covered everything in those 300 episodes, didn't they?

[160] Yeah, they got it all.

[161] Were you on friends?

[162] I wasn't.

[163] Okay.

[164] But that's a good question.

[165] It is.

[166] Inappropriate.

[167] Yeah.

[168] But good.

[169] I'm hitting all the appropriate questions.

[170] Although dangerous.

[171] Like, what if she had a huge moment on friends?

[172] And you've seen every episode.

[173] But that's the problem.

[174] I would have known if that were the case.

[175] But then I thought something could have slipped by like May Whitman.

[176] Okay.

[177] She slipped by when she was a little kid.

[178] Oh, she was on friends.

[179] When she was a little little.

[180] Oh, wow.

[181] I love her.

[182] I don't know her, but I love her very much.

[183] I'm a huge fan.

[184] She and I played family members.

[185] I know.

[186] I love your show.

[187] You saw it?

[188] I've seen every episode.

[189] Oh, my God.

[190] Yeah.

[191] Oh, my God.

[192] Okay.

[193] May Whitman is everything you would want her to be.

[194] She was the best actor in the cast and made my eight years there the most.

[195] joyful she is a rainbow of a human being now i want to ask you a question that just popped up this is not pre -planned have you ever been speaking to somebody and you notice that they have gone catatonic and that's a sincere question will you direct this answer directly into monica's eyes wait do you think i'm going catatonic or something no i think your eyes could hypnotize somebody i've been staring at them in a close -up for six years and now that i see them with no barrier between me and them i'm I'm getting a little nervous.

[196] I'm going to go get them.

[197] That's so nice.

[198] They are incredibly mesmerizing.

[199] Like almost I'd say the cobra with its backup, that level of mesmerized where I'm like, whoa.

[200] That's really nice.

[201] Okay, since we're flattering, my wife insisted I passed this on to you.

[202] You have her favorite face she's ever seen on TV or films and she thinks you're a rabbit.

[203] She'll pause and it could be the most gruesome scene in an episode of Handmaids.

[204] And she'll go, look at that little.

[205] Rabbit's face.

[206] I could just stare at.

[207] She's obsessed with your face.

[208] That is so not.

[209] I mean, we all are.

[210] We all are.

[211] I don't want to rule us out of that.

[212] But yes.

[213] I'm a big fan of hers as well.

[214] I loved her last show so much.

[215] I ate it up.

[216] The Netflix show.

[217] Do you like her face?

[218] I guess because when I pass back this compliment, do you have any feedback?

[219] Okay, you adore her.

[220] Who doesn't adore her face, though?

[221] I mean, she's just the most lovely, funny.

[222] She's a good one.

[223] Seems like a wonderful person.

[224] Should we get her up here?

[225] I think we should get her up here.

[226] Rob, bring her in.

[227] Okay, so we got the face thing of call.

[228] That's not shocking.

[229] We got the face thing out of the way.

[230] Your eyes are really bonkers.

[231] That's really nice.

[232] Thank you.

[233] It's really true.

[234] I had no idea where that was going.

[235] Did you?

[236] I was very confused.

[237] I was also confused, but I'm glad we got there.

[238] You were fearful.

[239] I meant you're boring.

[240] Yeah, no, I just didn't understand the question.

[241] Yeah.

[242] It was an abstract question.

[243] Okay, you were born in 82 in Los Angeles.

[244] And your parents are musicians?

[245] Yeah.

[246] First five years were in the valley.

[247] Then Laurel Canyon for like 13 years and then Sherman Oaks for a few years.

[248] And then I moved to New York when I was 19.

[249] Okay.

[250] So look out, Mountain.

[251] Wonderland.

[252] Made famous by the gruesome murder.

[253] How close were you to that house?

[254] Did you know about it?

[255] It involved our man, the guy with the big dong, the porn star.

[256] That's what Boogie Nights was sort of based on, right?

[257] Something to do with that incident, I think.

[258] Absolutely.

[259] One of the scenes in Boogie Nikes.

[260] What was his name?

[261] Rob, do you know, the very famous?

[262] Ron Jeremy.

[263] No. Pre -Rong Jeremy.

[264] The first, I think, globally popular male porn star.

[265] I'm not sure if I ever knew the names of the parties involved.

[266] Okay.

[267] That's very fair.

[268] As a child.

[269] Yeah.

[270] But there was also something else up the street.

[271] Something bad happened at another house.

[272] Uh -huh.

[273] It was a bit of a storied avenue.

[274] Wait, when you say murder in the hills, I think people would assume you're talking about the Manson murder.

[275] No, no, no. John Holmes.

[276] I knew it was a John Holmes.

[277] So John Holmes, he became a drug addict.

[278] He got ensnared in some kind of crime escapade.

[279] It ended up at a house on Wonderland.

[280] Here's what I think it is.

[281] I think John Holmes robbed someone's house.

[282] And then I think the retribution was going to the house.

[283] He was staying in and they killed a bunch of people inside the house, which was just in the shadow of your childhood home.

[284] Yes.

[285] At what age?

[286] I was not there at the time.

[287] It was many years prior, I believe, because I was there late 80s to, you know, whatever 13 years later is.

[288] How's it changed?

[289] So I only know Laurel Canyon 97 and beyond.

[290] Was it Singers in the Canyon, Crosby, stills in Nash vibe.

[291] Yes, and not fancy.

[292] It even got fancier over the years when we were there, which is kind of why we left because they was getting fancier and we were not.

[293] Pricier.

[294] Yeah, exactly.

[295] My house actually isn't even there anymore.

[296] But my brother's 18 months younger than me, so we were super close.

[297] And we had two backyards, which sounds, again, fancy.

[298] We loved it as kids because one of the backyards was completely dirt.

[299] Oh, which is fantastic.

[300] Like this yard.

[301] Yes.

[302] Like this fantastic for kids and had a swing.

[303] set.

[304] I mean, it was just great.

[305] You could get feral in that yard.

[306] Absolutely.

[307] And then the other one was cement, but you could ride your bike around.

[308] But just in little like circles, just kind of this like little path.

[309] Best of both worlds.

[310] Yeah.

[311] And then there were hills.

[312] So you could climb up the hills and you could go around.

[313] It was all very scrappy, but it was kind of great for kids.

[314] Wild life.

[315] You got, you got, oh, sure.

[316] Lost a couple cats.

[317] A couple cats.

[318] Yeah.

[319] We just learned that they do, in fact, attack humans, even though everyone pretends like they don't.

[320] We just interviewed someone who was attacked recently.

[321] But in Canada, for what that's worth.

[322] Canadian coyote, but still, that's a whole different category of coyote guys.

[323] Not polite like the Canadian citizens.

[324] They went the other way.

[325] You must be friends with Erica Christensen.

[326] Yes.

[327] Her and I haven't seen each other in years because I live in New York.

[328] She lives in L .A., but we text every once in a while.

[329] Oh, you currently live in New York.

[330] Yeah.

[331] How long have you lived there?

[332] 20 years.

[333] Wow.

[334] No, you haven't.

[335] Oh, my God.

[336] The fantasy I made up in my head, you too?

[337] Inappropriate.

[338] We didn't know that.

[339] Monica's trying to turn your question into an inappropriate question after her inappropriate questions.

[340] Yeah, I'm trying to rope you into some inappropriateness.

[341] Oh, help me. I love getting inappropriate.

[342] Wait, because I use the word fantasy?

[343] No, just because you didn't know that she lived in New York.

[344] Oh.

[345] It's not going to work.

[346] It didn't work.

[347] It didn't work.

[348] It didn't work.

[349] Nothing.

[350] It's a nice try.

[351] You know this is my ultimate trigger of not understanding what everyone she's trying to say that you didn't know something about me. And so it was an inappropriate question because she asked two inappropriate questions.

[352] That's right.

[353] Unknown answers.

[354] That's right.

[355] Okay.

[356] But it's didn't.

[357] work.

[358] It's okay.

[359] Yeah.

[360] It didn't work because it was appropriate.

[361] It was totally appropriate.

[362] Like, why would he know how many years I was a stretch?

[363] He did research on you.

[364] It was a stretch.

[365] Badly.

[366] And your personal column, it does not report where you live.

[367] And I knew you grew up in L .A. And I think it's much more common for people who grew up in New York to end up in L .A. Oh, for sure.

[368] I did the total opposite.

[369] So when everyone was coming to L .A., early 20s and doing pilot season, I did the complete opposite and went the other way and went to New York.

[370] I had already been on West Wing as reoccurring and I like wasn't on it for a season.

[371] So I went to New York and that's where I actually got the only pilot I've ever gotten, which was Madman.

[372] No kidding.

[373] Yeah.

[374] So I did the total opposite and it worked out great.

[375] They cast that out of New York.

[376] We shot the pilot in New York.

[377] Oh wow.

[378] Yeah.

[379] You're eight when you first start acting professionally, I think is your first credit.

[380] I can't imagine they gave you a lot to do.

[381] I think.

[382] Oh, even younger.

[383] Okay.

[384] This gives me great comfort because you were on Sam Jones's show off camera and I love that show.

[385] I love that show.

[386] Isn't it wonderful?

[387] He's so great.

[388] He is.

[389] One of my favorite shows I've done.

[390] Same.

[391] And instrumental in me wanting to do this.

[392] I was like, I like to talk for an hour and not try to convince you of who I am in three and a half minutes.

[393] That was the first time I was like, oh, if you watch that and you liked it, you might actually like me, not like the comedy bit I did.

[394] Totally.

[395] And he's super educated about the work and he focuses on the right things.

[396] Okay.

[397] So what I loved about it is I have no training other than the groundlings.

[398] I guess it's half and half.

[399] The people you end up working with have had training and have and have.

[400] But of course, because I've had none, I always am prepared to have a chip on my shoulder about it.

[401] I don't even know if I do as much as like, I'm prepared if someone comes at me to tell you why I think it's horseshit, even though no one asks me and no one's coming at me. Judging you for not having had training?

[402] That's right.

[403] And not having maybe an approach that I could articulate.

[404] Now, granted, I think I could articulate it at this point, but to hear you on Sam Jones go, I have no technique or training, I'm doing the same thing I did when I was 10 years old on a set.

[405] I just have never stopped doing an instinctual version of acting that I could do when I was 10.

[406] For someone as unbelievably talented as you, and now at this point acclaimed, say like, yeah, I don't have any of that stuff.

[407] It is so comforting.

[408] Well, I hope so because I'm a big believer in whatever works for you.

[409] literally being a method actor's working for Daniel Day -Lewis.

[410] It seems to be.

[411] And I would advise him to continue.

[412] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[413] You know, it's working out really well.

[414] It's just not the way that I learned how to do it.

[415] Even to this day, I was just talking about this yesterday, about this next project that I'm doing.

[416] I don't want to answer a lot of questions about it beforehand.

[417] I don't want to come up with a big backstory.

[418] I don't want to make decisions about things.

[419] And then I have to stick to them.

[420] I would prefer to be able to do 10 things when the camera's rolling.

[421] And that's just me. That's just how I think I act best.

[422] That gets the best performance out of me. If you talk about any like Stanislavski, I don't know it.

[423] Right.

[424] Thank God you're not method.

[425] I don't think I'd be alive.

[426] I don't think I would have made it.

[427] No. I don't really know how you made it.

[428] I'm going to just earmarked up.

[429] I don't know how you made it without that.

[430] I mean, truly, I think that's what we talk about most when we're watching the show is like, how does one spend 12 hours, 16 hours of their day, five days of week in this?

[431] Also, we watched them all together.

[432] Yeah, it's a group show for us.

[433] That's fun.

[434] So we're about to resume, funny enough.

[435] Yes, we'll be back.

[436] Very excited.

[437] Okay, similarly, I do the best when I am totally off -kilter.

[438] There needs to be chaos.

[439] I need to be curious if something is happening correctly or incorrectly.

[440] And then in scrambling to catch up, some realness in me takes over.

[441] That's so interesting.

[442] I feel like you're saying something similar.

[443] Like, I'm open to all things happening right now.

[444] And I also trust the right.

[445] thing will end up in an edit, I guess.

[446] Yes, exactly.

[447] See, I love that energy.

[448] And I think that's super exciting.

[449] And I actually think it's not an easy thing to do because you have to have a lot of confidence in yourself and in the actors around you and in the director that you're not going to be made to look like a fool.

[450] So I actually think it takes a lot of bravery to not plan every single moment.

[451] And I remember working with Michael Stoolbarg.

[452] He's one of my absolute favorites.

[453] What's the thing I would have seen?

[454] I hate saying that.

[455] Because this is me. people with me at the airport.

[456] What's the thing I'm seeing you in?

[457] What did I just see you in?

[458] So she don't even know if I can.

[459] Oh, a serious man. Call me by your name.

[460] Oh, wow.

[461] He's in something right.

[462] Yeah, that guy is a gangster.

[463] And he does so much preparation.

[464] But in the end, when you're rolling, it's all loose.

[465] It's total chaos.

[466] And he thrives in the chaos and he loves it.

[467] And I think that's actually hard to do.

[468] You have to pay extra close attention to your scene partner.

[469] Because you're kind of looking to them.

[470] They threw the fastball.

[471] I got to, you know what I'm saying?

[472] Yes.

[473] That's why I don't understand figuring out too much before you do the scene because generally that's by yourself, unless you, I guess, you're rehearsing or something.

[474] Right.

[475] Or you have an acting coach with you on side or something.

[476] Which people have, totally.

[477] Practicing and stuff seems to work for people.

[478] No, but then you get stuck.

[479] You can get stuck in one way of doing it.

[480] Well, yeah.

[481] But also, you don't have the other actor in front of you.

[482] actors who have their own set of things that they've decided that they're going to do and worked out with their acting coaches.

[483] And so now they're throwing this shit at you.

[484] And I just prefer to be in a place where you can react in the moment to something.

[485] Now, I had a really cool experience where I was in a movie and there were all these courtroom scenes and we were all together all the time.

[486] And I got to watch, Duval have these big monologues.

[487] Then I got to hear Robert Donnie Jr. make all these big monologues.

[488] What movie was this?

[489] The judge.

[490] This is a movie.

[491] It's not appropriate question.

[492] Yay.

[493] You're welcome.

[494] What would have been great is if I said the judge and you said, oh, you were in that?

[495] Now, that's where we go out there.

[496] Still wouldn't really care.

[497] But to watch Duval do monologues, then to watch Robert Downey do monologues, because it's a courtroom scene, right?

[498] So everyone's going to do monologues in front of you.

[499] It's so cool.

[500] And then Billy Bob Thornton's doing monologues in front of you.

[501] And then Vincent Donofrio is over my left shoulder.

[502] And then Jeremy Strong's there.

[503] And so Jeremy Strong is as method as it gets.

[504] I didn't meet Jeremy Strong on the movie.

[505] That's one thing.

[506] There you got Duval, who he can't say.

[507] anything that doesn't sound perfectly authentic.

[508] You can do extra takes, but there's really no reason.

[509] And then you got Robert Donnie Jr .'s got earpiece in.

[510] So he's like, guys, he wants chaos.

[511] He wants to be hearing this in his mind for the first time before it comes out of his mouth.

[512] Yet he somehow can improv with the earpiece in.

[513] And then you're watching Bill and Bob and he's just kind of doing his.

[514] And you go, oh yeah, everyone here is like, got this their own little unique approach.

[515] And by the way, everyone's great.

[516] There's no winner.

[517] It's working for everybody.

[518] Yeah.

[519] That's how they've figured out how to get the most authentic performance.

[520] People ask me, acting advice, and I'm always like, just figure out what works for you and do that.

[521] There's no right or wrong way of doing this.

[522] There's no right or wrong way of saying a line.

[523] There really isn't.

[524] There's just not being authentic and truthful.

[525] That's it.

[526] I think because it is so gray, because there are a million ways to do it, people feel like, I need a rule book or I need parameters or else it feels scary to people.

[527] Totally.

[528] I totally get that.

[529] Sometimes you need to have some sort of thing that you can follow that makes you feel safe.

[530] That's what I'm saying.

[531] If that's what you need to do.

[532] Exactly.

[533] Fantastic.

[534] Although, when I'm having these arguments in my head that have never happened in 22 years of being on sets, let me just give you my argument.

[535] When I'm being mean, too.

[536] Okay, do you want to hear it?

[537] Yeah.

[538] Let's not even mean.

[539] It's judgmental.

[540] Okay.

[541] There is some part of me, some dark part of me, that thinks our job is so silly.

[542] It's preposterous.

[543] It's ridiculous.

[544] But your job is a fuck.

[545] In general, it's silly.

[546] I mean, it's pretend.

[547] You make a silly amount of money.

[548] Yeah.

[549] You're right to work with 600 other people on a pretend story.

[550] Most circus people had to live in the dirt and they had to travel town to town.

[551] It was a beat down.

[552] It was a beat down because you got to do this stupid fun thing for a job.

[553] But something flipped and now you can be in the circus and you have a trailer and someone drove you to work.

[554] We have some awareness of this.

[555] When they yell action and you go, I'm not going to do it.

[556] Call Mike.

[557] Cut, great.

[558] And then you go, wow.

[559] That was my job today.

[560] you know you got lucky.

[561] So there's a guilt.

[562] Now, I don't even know that any of this is in the consciousness.

[563] I think this is like somewhere in the back of their mind.

[564] So there's some level of guilt like, I don't know if I really deserve all this.

[565] So, you know, I'm going to work extra hard at it to justify it because it's silly, but I'm going to work my ass off at it.

[566] I think that can be a part of a motivation for some people that I argue with in my head.

[567] I can see that.

[568] I understand that judgment.

[569] You're not co -signing.

[570] You just heard it.

[571] And you understand it.

[572] And I appreciate it.

[573] I get it.

[574] As a person who doesn't work very hard at acting.

[575] It's a crazy.

[576] I sometimes feel like when I see someone like Michael Stoberg pull out the book and it's just highlighted and got sticky things and all different colors and it's gigantic at the read -through.

[577] And I have to go borrow a notepad and a pencil because I didn't bring anything.

[578] I feel like maybe I should be working.

[579] a little harder.

[580] It is working for you.

[581] You do not mess with it.

[582] Don't monkey with it.

[583] Did you tell your parents, I want to start auditioning?

[584] I want to get into this.

[585] Or someone like, your eyes are so mesmerizing.

[586] Come in for this audition.

[587] I'm catatonic.

[588] Come audition for me. Once I come out of this ketosis, can you?

[589] As far as I remember and it has been told to me by my mom because I was young and I kind of have a really bad memory.

[590] Do you have a bad memory?

[591] No, Kristen does.

[592] And that's a good.

[593] This is a lot of the great actors.

[594] as we talk to, have shitty memories.

[595] But they're so good at scripts.

[596] It's like they've given up part of their memory.

[597] It's exactly.

[598] I think you spend that part of your mind on that.

[599] And then you don't remember what happened to you.

[600] I think y 'all's brains are physically different because also Monica and I will be shocked.

[601] So two years has gone by since the last season of Game of Thrones.

[602] We start the episode.

[603] And Kristen, who doesn't know what house she woke up in this morning?

[604] Literally, sometimes will go, oh, Barathean just bubble, like her memory for story is shocking.

[605] Is your memory for story shocking?

[606] Yes.

[607] I can remember takes.

[608] I can remember anything connected with work as a actor or producer, director.

[609] I'm very, very good at that.

[610] But my own life.

[611] Who cares?

[612] There's a sacrifice.

[613] Yeah.

[614] So I was dancing.

[615] I was doing ballet for when I was five.

[616] And as the story goes, I was at my school, which was in the valley, my ballet school in the valley.

[617] And we did sound of music because that's classic ballet that everyone does.

[618] And I was playing the littlest one.

[619] And an agent came and said, does she, want to audition and I guess my mom asked me and I said yes and then I just started.

[620] Wow.

[621] And I'm sure didn't get anything for a while and then started to like kind of get a commercial here and there and then just kind of kept doing it.

[622] I was never a moment that I was like, I want to be an actor, mother.

[623] Mother, I have something to tell you.

[624] For some actors we have on who started very young, they do have that story.

[625] They're like, there was no option, there was no choice.

[626] I told my parents I'm doing it and that's that.

[627] And then there's this story, too, where you almost, like, fell in.

[628] Kind of just happened.

[629] Same with the acting technique.

[630] There's, like, a trillion roads that lead to the exact same evening that you weren't at last night.

[631] Yes, exactly.

[632] I don't like doing anything else, and I don't think I ever liked doing anything else.

[633] I don't think you'd be good at anything else.

[634] I'm not good at anything else.

[635] That's not true.

[636] It's so true, though.

[637] Given my lack of dedication to doing any sort of work or preparation.

[638] whatsoever.

[639] I don't think I would be good at anything else.

[640] I just kept doing it and doing it, and then I was doing ballet, and then stopped doing ballet and kept doing the acting instead.

[641] I wonder if your acting approaches in any way in opposition to the dancing, because the dancing is a thousand percent technique and wrote and practice and misery.

[642] You hit the nail on the head.

[643] Nice.

[644] Good job.

[645] We're getting somewhere.

[646] Look at that.

[647] Now we're getting down to it.

[648] I'm going to take my shoes off now.

[649] That's kind of what I do, because I only remember.

[650] bring up the left foot.

[651] Okay.

[652] So, yes, you're doing this thing that is really, really rigorous and really demanding and requires a ton of discipline.

[653] And you liked it or did you burn out with it?

[654] You didn't just stop doing it.

[655] Something maybe.

[656] I loved it.

[657] I loved it and I still love ballet.

[658] But when I was 15, there's kind of a choice of you're either going to go for it and you're going to do it and you're going to go to the school year round and then you're going to join a company, which is so crazy.

[659] Now I just turned 40 and I'm like, I cannot believe this was my life.

[660] decision at 15.

[661] I was a baby.

[662] I talked to my mom and I made this really mature decision with her help, which I'm so grateful for now.

[663] I remember saying to her, you know, I could dance and if it goes well, if I don't get injured, I'll make it to 30, 35.

[664] And if I act, I could potentially do it for the rest of my life.

[665] Yeah.

[666] And thank God I was able to somehow figure that out.

[667] I love ballet.

[668] I didn't leave it because I didn't love it.

[669] I left it because I couldn't imagine not acting.

[670] Yeah.

[671] Yeah.

[672] But I could imagine not dancing.

[673] It's a very private, very self -disciplined art form where you have to be the one who's looking at yourself in the mirror and saying, that works, that doesn't work.

[674] And you do that from five years old.

[675] It's a really interesting observation, though, that with that level of rigor and self -discipline in ballet makes so much sense that with acting, I'm like, eh.

[676] And that it would be so appealing.

[677] Yeah.

[678] We had John White And he kind of hit us with this really fascinating aspect of his life that added up through luck to what he became, which is his first level of skateboarding.

[679] And so he spent most of his summer skateboarding.

[680] He then would snowboard in the winter.

[681] And he went back and forth to these sports.

[682] So when he would go over to snowboarding, he would look at this and go, this is so easy.

[683] The thing is strapped to your feet.

[684] My main thing, the board flies off.

[685] So he had this weird confidence.

[686] And then when he went back to skateboarding, he's like, going 10 feet on a skateboard, it's not scary.

[687] So they just kept upping each other.

[688] Totally.

[689] That's exactly right.

[690] Ballet was hard and ballet took a lot of work and acting wasn't like easy in the sense of, oh, I was just like getting every role like every years when I didn't work.

[691] And every actor knows you don't get way more than you get.

[692] Yeah, yeah.

[693] But it was easier in a lot of ways.

[694] Yeah, yeah.

[695] And you had that juxtaposition.

[696] You could say in the moment like, well, that other thing's harder.

[697] Oh, totally.

[698] That's helpful.

[699] I would imagine it gave you a good attitude on set because.

[700] Because if I can say there's a downside of acting, it would be like the hours are really long.

[701] They are abnormally long.

[702] I've had other jobs.

[703] Additionally, you're often freezing.

[704] Most workplaces, you're not asked to be in a cold river naked.

[705] No. There are some underwater welding situation, but you have wetsuits.

[706] So the only two things are really the hours and then how physically uncomfortable you sometimes have to be for the job.

[707] Yep.

[708] But again, both things by comparison to toe points with bloody ripped up toenails, not bad.

[709] And injuries that affect you for your whole life, the stress and the competition and all of that.

[710] Then again, it's such a beautiful art form.

[711] I totally get how that's all completely worth it, like for athletes, you know?

[712] Yeah.

[713] I get that the work that you put in for those moments on stage with the orchestra when you are just the most beautiful creature, I get that it's worth it.

[714] I'm very close to getting whose voice you have.

[715] Is it Elizabeth Moss's voice?

[716] No, it's the woman from Handmaid's Tale.

[717] Have you seen that?

[718] Oh, I'm going to start it.

[719] Yeah, don't.

[720] It's a bummer.

[721] Don't do it.

[722] It's a bummer.

[723] It's really dark.

[724] If you're going to do it with friends, like, do it in a group.

[725] Okay.

[726] So that no one kills themselves after us.

[727] I've never heard of a group watch of Hammate's Tale.

[728] It was an accident.

[729] We had a nightly show always.

[730] And then we probably were just like, okay, what's next?

[731] Oh, we heard this is good.

[732] Yeah, yeah.

[733] And then it became a thing.

[734] Because it's so sort of dark and disturbing.

[735] I just can't imagine.

[736] It's sort of a bunch of people.

[737] sitting around it's great actually because the two great visceral cinema experiences are comedies and horror movies like those are things that get elevated exponentially by the shared experience and handmaids is very much a horror movie so to be all eight of us together and be like oh my god like that's so rewarding i totally get that is when we watch the show on a big screen like at a premiere or if we have a finale event it's so fun because it's like a sporting event it is It's so intense.

[738] Booze and, you know, like, cheers and shit.

[739] I get that.

[740] Never mind.

[741] I take it back.

[742] And also it's great.

[743] You see this Aunt Lydia scene.

[744] And then the code in our house is PRQ, which is pause real quick.

[745] So someone will go, PRQ.

[746] So you got to pause it.

[747] And everyone just vents about Aunt Lydia like, oh, this fucking bitch.

[748] And then Kristen's like, PRQ, look at her teeth.

[749] It's her teeth.

[750] She's a rabbit.

[751] Look at her teeth right there.

[752] She's the cutest rabbit.

[753] Okay, on PRQ.

[754] You PRQ.

[755] It's great.

[756] I wish I could be a fly on the wall.

[757] It's so fun.

[758] Sometimes there are laser pointers.

[759] Oh, I love that.

[760] Yes.

[761] That's mostly for the hair police.

[762] Kristen's main preoccupation is like who has extensions in and how bad did they do blending it.

[763] She's really critiquing hair and makeup.

[764] Not the actor.

[765] It's never like there's a pointer going like, oh, I don't like that piece.

[766] They need to tighten up that tricep.

[767] That's not happening.

[768] It's always like, boom.

[769] See where her hair stops?

[770] And she's furious at the hair department.

[771] It's because we know.

[772] Yeah.

[773] We hate when it looks bad on us and we've all had the experience where it didn't work.

[774] And so now we're hyper aware of it.

[775] The funny thing is you can't make her happy.

[776] Monica and I will both go like, oh, yeah, I see it.

[777] Yeah.

[778] And then she keeps railing.

[779] Never see it.

[780] No, but once she points it out, see, yeah, that's very obvious.

[781] See, what should it?

[782] And then she just keeps going as if she's still pleading her case.

[783] It's like, yes, it's not a great job.

[784] And we all acknowledge that.

[785] And can we resume?

[786] Because this is a really intense scene.

[787] She needs another three, four minutes to work through it.

[788] By the way, I am going to be so conscious of this now when we make season six and I am going to be so hyper aware.

[789] I want you to think of her.

[790] I'm telling you, I will because I'm now going to literally be like, this is going to work for Kristen.

[791] Kristen is going to see this.

[792] Can I tell you how serious she is about it?

[793] If you offered her a job just doing final looks on you, she'd go up to Canada and just make sure you're tight before.

[794] I mean, that's her level of commitment to this.

[795] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[796] What's up, guys?

[797] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[798] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[799] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[800] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[801] And I don't mean just friends.

[802] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[803] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[804] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[805] We've all been there.

[806] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[807] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[808] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[809] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[810] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[811] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[812] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[813] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[814] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[815] This is also a high -risk thing.

[816] You know when you know somebody that someone else works with, but you have no idea how they feel about that person.

[817] But your assumption is, I bet they love this person because I love this person.

[818] Warren Littlefield.

[819] Is he not the most special?

[820] So, Monica, you listen to the Will & Grace episode of Revisionous History, didn't you?

[821] I am not yet.

[822] Fucking.

[823] Fuck.

[824] Sorry.

[825] He's a producer.

[826] He was also a producer of Fargo, which we loved.

[827] Love.

[828] Simultaneously to being a producer of Handmaids.

[829] I had a project I had written that he was producing.

[830] That was my only experience with him.

[831] We'd meet for a coffee, then we'd go someplace and talk to people.

[832] But I found him to be perhaps the best bedside manner I've ever seen in a producer, which is he makes you feel good.

[833] And when he has a note, he has a solution, and he's a fucking genius.

[834] And I was bold over, because I'm the writer.

[835] I don't want to hear anyone's opinion.

[836] I'm very bullheaded about writing.

[837] And he would say something.

[838] I'd be like, holy shit, you really just kind of solve something that's been driving me nuts for three months that I didn't want to admit was wrong with this project.

[839] Him having the best bedside manner is exactly right.

[840] I started with him as a producer on the show on season one, and then I became an executive producer on season two.

[841] Largely, thanks to Warren, who really advocated for me, I wasn't supposed to contractually.

[842] It was like season three.

[843] He felt like, hey, it's probably important.

[844] We have a female executive producer in the top, you know, couple producers on the show.

[845] But everything that I have learned about bedside manner, how to note, how to deal with.

[846] with something that you don't want to deal with is from him.

[847] I mean, he is an absolute master.

[848] And it doesn't mean that he cannot be tough if he wants to be.

[849] He's not going to let shitty story get by him.

[850] He has high, high standards.

[851] Really high standards.

[852] But I've been on calls with him where we've had to have difficult conversations with people.

[853] And somehow you come off the call, no matter what he's saying to you, somehow you feel so good.

[854] If you ever get fired, you want to be fired by Warren.

[855] field like you want him to give you bad news does it give compliments or how is he doing it I can tell you how I feel is that what is clear is that he is an ally to you and an ally to the project you guys are making so what's clear is that his commitment is to this shared thing you guys both love and it's about making that thing better there's something about the way he can depersonalize everything and you see how pure his interest it is in making something great and beautiful did that answer or not sufficiently Yeah, that's perfect.

[856] That's exactly what it is.

[857] I know what that look was, is why are you answering when she's here?

[858] And you're right.

[859] No, but.

[860] I got it.

[861] It took me one second.

[862] God damn it.

[863] You're right.

[864] I like Terry's answer because I actually think that's correct.

[865] That look was like, I didn't ask you that question.

[866] Okay.

[867] I already knew the answer.

[868] I just wanted to hear those.

[869] I was just going to say.

[870] No, this is what we do.

[871] We embarrass ourselves here.

[872] We're vulnerable.

[873] You're not.

[874] Oh, Warren Littlefield.

[875] I feel pretty burned by that.

[876] That's why as I need a better approach.

[877] I liked hearing his answer because I think it's really true.

[878] But if you would want to hear my answer.

[879] Yes, I do.

[880] No, I covered it.

[881] You're fine.

[882] Next thing.

[883] Let me tell you about another thing I do.

[884] Let me tell you something else I think about you.

[885] That's someone you know.

[886] Oh, my God.

[887] He depersonalizes it, though.

[888] That's exactly right.

[889] He focuses on the creative.

[890] He focuses on story.

[891] He focuses on the goal, which is making what we all want to make.

[892] You know, we all want to make something good, which is something I feel like everyone sort of forgets in the drama of making a show.

[893] You know, you all forget that you're actually trying to do the same thing, which is make a good show.

[894] Yeah.

[895] And he never loses sight of that.

[896] I actually think that was a very good, astute explanation of Warren.

[897] Me too.

[898] And I apologize.

[899] You don't have to apologize.

[900] It's good because there's a lot of.

[901] of people who aren't in this industry, but who are bosses or who are trying to have people under them.

[902] And it's very hard to figure out how to communicate effectively.

[903] Well, first, let's acknowledge that the activity is a minefield because the thing that's going to receive notes isn't the piece of metal I cut and you measure it and say, well, it's not 90 degrees.

[904] It's 87 degrees.

[905] We've got to recut that piece of metal.

[906] That's not what happens.

[907] It's like, you offered a piece of yourself.

[908] and I go, that was not right for this.

[909] But I will say, I think anyone who cares about their work at all does that.

[910] They, like, make it their identity.

[911] I agree with you.

[912] Because, yes, the person who cut it at 87 degrees is like, oh, well, fuck, I fucked that up.

[913] This is my whole life.

[914] But there's an added layer, which is the piece of metal being measured is also the human being who made it.

[915] Totally.

[916] I agree, yes.

[917] And often writers take stories literally from their life.

[918] That's not working for us.

[919] You're like, that's what happened.

[920] Or even worse, like, that's not saying heartbreak to me. Or that's not, like, the emotion that, well, no, I actually experienced this and it was this way.

[921] No, not really.

[922] Or that character seems like he's just kind of an asshole.

[923] And you're like, that's the one based on me. That's the me in the story.

[924] The biggest word that Warren taught me was the word feedback.

[925] And I love what he does because he gets on a call.

[926] And even if the feedback is maybe not positive, he has this way of saying, we're going to offer you some feedback.

[927] That is just, you feel grateful that you're being offered this sort of chance to hear this perspective.

[928] Yeah.

[929] So this was the question that I had planned on asking anyways, but it's exactly what Monica's kind of asking as well, which is I'm curious what your approach is when you're directing, because you did three last year.

[930] I don't know how many all told you did this season.

[931] I know the first two are yours.

[932] Girl.

[933] Man. That's where they send the heavy hitters.

[934] They bring Tommy Shlami in on West Wing for the opener and the club.

[935] There were definitely times that I was like, I can't believe I'm directing the finale of the airmen still.

[936] Like, Jesus Christ.

[937] Because I know, having done a lot of television, that, yes, this is where they bring in the real directors.

[938] Yeah.

[939] In general, shows know what their first episode is, and they know what their finale is.

[940] And they're working all year to fill in the gap between those two.

[941] So that's the episode that someone's had six months to think about and plan and everything else.

[942] And they give that to someone they really trust.

[943] They also have sometimes a bit more time.

[944] attached to them more money and more money yeah yeah so the responsibility overall is larger and this season was our biggest season we've ever done on paper and it was the biggest opening we'd ever done and the biggest finale we'd ever done in the history of the show hence my comment i cannot believe i'm directing yeah yeah yeah yeah did you have to pause before you accepted that were you like can i do this i did actually take a second warren called me and i was not expecting that to be what the phone call was about.

[945] He doesn't call you Elizabeth, does he?

[946] He calls me Lizzie.

[947] Everyone calls me Lizzie.

[948] You guys have to call me Lizzie.

[949] Oh, this is fun.

[950] We got invited to a nickname.

[951] It's like a cartoonish version.

[952] Yes, it's almost Kermit the Froggy, which helps again with the delivery.

[953] Lizzie, um, no, no, no, no, it's really kind of.

[954] That actually is Kermit.

[955] You're going to direct the finale and the opener.

[956] I would have not have hesitated if Kermit.

[957] Are you going to be there, Kermit?

[958] Fuck it.

[959] I'll do it.

[960] What shows going on a weird direction.

[961] I like it.

[962] And I just kind of thought about it for a second.

[963] Talk to my mom.

[964] Is this something that I feel like I can legitimately pull off and do and honor and be good at?

[965] I thought, sure, why not?

[966] I was giving a shot.

[967] Yeah, fuck it.

[968] You did it.

[969] Oh, my God.

[970] My question was going to be, how do you talk to actors?

[971] What's your approach to talk to actors when you're directing?

[972] Wow.

[973] Don't even worry.

[974] We're getting wrong.

[975] That sounds like a sadly.

[976] It wasn't planned out there by them.

[977] Yeah, that was my...

[978] Oh, there's a dust cloud.

[979] Hold on one second.

[980] See, it does sound like something bad happened.

[981] Oh, no, we're good.

[982] So what they've got is, I guess that would be like a 10 -yard truck.

[983] They brought in and they're filling it with rubble of the gate they knocked down.

[984] So don't worry, it's going to happen repeatedly.

[985] It's all on track.

[986] It's all on track.

[987] This is going exactly as planned.

[988] How do you like being spoken to by directors?

[989] I'm open to pretty much anything, except for this might sound.

[990] silly, but except for being insulted, every actor, every person, really.

[991] I mean, we don't thrive on criticism or feeling like we're not doing a good job or feeling like they're have a problem with what you're doing.

[992] So the only thing I can't handle is if someone comes up to me and is like, I just am not.

[993] I don't know.

[994] I'm not, you know, and I'm like, okay, well, this is very much not helpful.

[995] Everything else I'm fine with.

[996] I'm totally fine with if you want me to go faster.

[997] I'm totally fine if you want to have a 30 -minute conversation about the deeper meaning of the line.

[998] Whatever you want to do, I'm happy to kind of go through that process, but I'll still on track out there.

[999] With any luck, everything will be gone when we exit here.

[1000] We'll just enter a barren field.

[1001] Whole cities on fire.

[1002] She's just a sort of apocalypse.

[1003] We won't have known or cared.

[1004] The podcast went great, though.

[1005] No one's left to listen to it.

[1006] We're the musicians on the deck of the Titanic as it's going down.

[1007] We're like so sucked into the song.

[1008] We're like, Fuck, let's cute.

[1009] Oh, hit that riff again, Mike.

[1010] Gotta keep morale high.

[1011] So, yeah, that's how I like to be directed.

[1012] I don't care really very much.

[1013] You can try anything except just try to keep my confidence high.

[1014] And what about when you're directing actors?

[1015] What's your approach?

[1016] So the number one thing I learned about directing actors was from Jane Campion by watching her direct actors.

[1017] Calmness is absolutely essential, creating a calm environment.

[1018] She directed the piano.

[1019] Yeah, and she also directed that newer movie.

[1020] What's it called Netflix?

[1021] Power of the dog.

[1022] Yes, exactly.

[1023] POD.

[1024] P -O -T -D.

[1025] Everyone's calling a P -O -T -D.

[1026] That is Callie's campaign, so she got close with her.

[1027] My best friend.

[1028] She works at Netflix, and she's in the marketing department, and she got very close with Jane during time.

[1029] She has an enormous head we learned yesterday.

[1030] It's an enormous.

[1031] Deceptively enormous.

[1032] It doesn't look big.

[1033] Her hair is great.

[1034] But you get a tape measure around it?

[1035] Back up.

[1036] Really?

[1037] Extra large.

[1038] Good for her.

[1039] Yeah.

[1040] Similarly, I have a small head.

[1041] It looks big.

[1042] How big is your head?

[1043] I'd like to think just an average.

[1044] It looks average.

[1045] I think it's on the smaller side.

[1046] Do we're a small hat?

[1047] No, but that's because I don't like things to be tight on my head especially.

[1048] Like these, and I have small ears, so these always sort of crush my, anyway.

[1049] It's all right.

[1050] Should we scrap this?

[1051] We should really call it.

[1052] So she's brilliant at many, many, many, many things.

[1053] But I think what she's really brilliant at is directing different kinds of actors.

[1054] She'll have Nicole Kidman or a Holly Hunter.

[1055] or somebody extremely experienced, and then she'll have somebody who's like their first job.

[1056] And the way that she adapts herself to the different people was what I learned from her.

[1057] That's how I try to approach directing actors.

[1058] I think the number one thing is to figure out what their process is.

[1059] I'm lucky on handmaids because I've worked with them for five years, so I know what their processes are.

[1060] I get to cheat and just sort of like slide in.

[1061] And I also know when they have worked with directors and they haven't liked what's happened.

[1062] Do you know what I mean?

[1063] So I know what not to do as well because I've heard all the other stuff.

[1064] So I like to make sure that I'm just handling the person in front of me and I'm talking to them and everyone's different.

[1065] You have to know how this person likes to be directed.

[1066] Parenthood had 14 cast members, so we'd be in the makeup trailer.

[1067] There might be seven of us there.

[1068] And we had guest directors every other episode.

[1069] We'd all be comparing whether we liked or hated this person, right?

[1070] You would think there'd be consensus.

[1071] And when I learned in that makeup trailer is like, oh yeah, me and six other people love the same kind of direction and then seven of them hate that kind.

[1072] So you really can't win if you're only going to have a singular approach to it.

[1073] Some people want a lot of work.

[1074] They want to hear cut.

[1075] That's great.

[1076] Let's try X, Y, and Z. They want to challenge.

[1077] I just want you to say you're great and build up my confidence and turn me loose and hopefully trust me and then give me some room and let's see if we can get something.

[1078] And then if we don't at the end of that experiment, please come in and tell me. I want a little safe playground for a minute before.

[1079] I do think that's a thing that applies to everybody.

[1080] Let them do their thing first.

[1081] Give them a chance.

[1082] My hackles go up a little bit when I start getting notes early in rehearsal.

[1083] I also don't do it in rehearsal.

[1084] I kind of just phone it in a little bit.

[1085] As you should.

[1086] Also, we're not rolling.

[1087] So for me, I'm like, why would I do something?

[1088] And then I'm chasing the dragon.

[1089] I'm trying to get that back.

[1090] And, you know, it doesn't work for me. It's like a thought -out thing.

[1091] It's not an accident.

[1092] And so I'm always like, I'm not doing it yet.

[1093] Like, don't give me a note.

[1094] I'm not doing it.

[1095] Mom.

[1096] Stop, I'm not actually doing it, obviously.

[1097] It's not how I'm going to do my hair.

[1098] I literally will be like, I'm going to be better.

[1099] Okay, I promise.

[1100] Since you have transitioned behind the first curtain of being a producer, which you get to watch people's auditions, you are a part of casting.

[1101] That becomes a whole eye -opening experience, right?

[1102] On the other side?

[1103] Really does.

[1104] And then when you're directing, it opens your eyes again.

[1105] So I'm curious what things you've picked up that you wish you could go back in time and tell 17 -year -old Elizabeth who just came off of West Wing.

[1106] Like, what would you say?

[1107] First of all, auditions, you're either right or you're wrong.

[1108] It's not really anything that you can do.

[1109] When you're watching an audition, you kind of know in the first five, ten seconds, whether or not this is going to be something that might be right.

[1110] It's so little to do with you.

[1111] It's actually silly.

[1112] Yeah.

[1113] So that would have been nice to know.

[1114] But the second thing is I am a much nicer and more collaborative actress with directors after I started directing.

[1115] I used to be pretty damn collaborative and nice.

[1116] You know, like even if somebody gives me a note I didn't agree with, I'd be like, I don't know, I'll try it.

[1117] Maybe it's right.

[1118] I didn't think of it.

[1119] You never know.

[1120] It might work.

[1121] I'm not precious about it.

[1122] But now, because I know and understand deeply the horrifying position of standing there as a director when an actor says to you that they don't want to do the note or they don't like it or they don't say they think you're stupid but they look at you like you're so stupid and why would you think of that and are you just an idiot you don't know the show you don't know my character they look at you like that and you want to die you just want to crawl back to your monitor in your chair and just be like I should never have ever tried to speak to you like you are you are beautiful and perfect always so now I know that horrifying feeling when you feel so stupid and now whenever a director comes up to me and gives me a note I am 99 .9 % going to be like thank you very much that was great let's give that a shot I do not contradict anymore oh that's lovely yeah do you feel like you're in general misunderstood do you think people think of you as just being like very heavy traumatized and you're like not you're so like light and bubbly and fun and easy and I could see walking in rooms and being like everyone thinks I definitely think that's like the number one misconception about me is that I am that dark person.

[1123] But I get it.

[1124] It's not crazy.

[1125] Why wouldn't you think that?

[1126] Like, it's literally all I do and all you see me do.

[1127] So why wouldn't you think I was super dark and serious?

[1128] But it is funny to me because I'm so the opposite of that.

[1129] And so not.

[1130] And I don't take acting seriously at all.

[1131] And it's so hilarious.

[1132] I just, I love actors, though.

[1133] The respect that I have for actors grew so much after I started directing because I realized how good they make you look as a director.

[1134] There's a scene that you don't, you know, you're concerned about or you think, oh, I don't know, is this going to work?

[1135] And then this actor and out or Brad Lee Whitford, Yvonne, whoever it is, comes in and delivers this performance and you're like, oh, thank you, God, does.

[1136] Thank you so, so much.

[1137] I actually appreciate acting more than I did before, but I still don't take it very seriously.

[1138] Well, A, we had him on.

[1139] Which one, Bradley.

[1140] And it was so fun.

[1141] I love Bradley.

[1142] And he told this great story about, I was talking about the pacing and how foreign it must be to be on something where it's so slow.

[1143] And he said, I actually had been given the note like two or three times, like, even slower.

[1144] I don't want to misrepresent what he said.

[1145] But in my memory, he said, I did one almost as a fuck you.

[1146] Like, I went so slow thinking, like, well, I'll show you slow.

[1147] And the director said, perfect.

[1148] And it was in the show.

[1149] And they were right.

[1150] Like, that worked perfectly for the show.

[1151] But he was almost doing it antagonistically slow.

[1152] Aggressively.

[1153] Aggressively slow.

[1154] That's so interesting.

[1155] I love Brad so much.

[1156] And I've, you know, known him since I was 17.

[1157] Yeah.

[1158] And now I'm his boss, which is very fun.

[1159] Love that full circle.

[1160] Love it.

[1161] Okay.

[1162] You are in, and I'm going to make this statement, it's unverifiable.

[1163] I guarantee I'm right.

[1164] You are in a tight close -up longer than any.

[1165] any actor before you and probably any actor that comes after you highly likely the amount of time we are up your fucking nose in that show is unparalleled and so I have three questions about that well first one's a compliment I've never watched someone's face from the nose up and seeing them calculating thinking reacting changing emotions coming up with a game plan It's insane how much I've gotten from watching your fucking little rabbit eyes, your hypnotic rabid eyes.

[1166] Your stillness is so kinetic.

[1167] It's like an oxymoron.

[1168] Like you're still.

[1169] Rivided.

[1170] But so much is going on.

[1171] I've never seen.

[1172] Stillness being kinetic is such a cool thing to say.

[1173] Thank you.

[1174] I just said it for the first time.

[1175] I will be using it again.

[1176] I will be ironic if it's on your headstone.

[1177] Is it ironic?

[1178] Here lies with kinetic stillness.

[1179] That's right.

[1180] That's really nice, you guys.

[1181] The famous one is Brando adjusting his chair and on the waterfront.

[1182] As a very first time an actor ever let you know that they actually had to adjust their chair to get comfortable.

[1183] Everything else in movies prior to that, actress sit down.

[1184] It's perfect.

[1185] The tea arrives.

[1186] It's not too hot.

[1187] It's not too cool.

[1188] He's the first person to break that.

[1189] And I've not ever gotten so much info from a human being's face prior to you.

[1190] And it's worth pointing out, number one.

[1191] That's really cool.

[1192] Number two, how much of your thought is, fuck, I got to get almost directly in this lens, but I got to be a. millimeter to the right so I'm not looking at the audience, which we have got to see once or twice on the show, which is really cool.

[1193] But it's been used sparingly.

[1194] When the camera's that close to your face, the difference between you're looking at the audience and the eyes and your not is nothing.

[1195] Thank you for pointing that out.

[1196] That is a totally inside baseball thing.

[1197] I love talking about this kind of thing.

[1198] As much as I think acting is silly, like I like it.

[1199] I've never had to develop that skill before.

[1200] You know how it is.

[1201] You get like a mark and you know, you put a little piece of tape on the corner of this box.

[1202] that surrounds the lens.

[1203] Which always just makes you feel like such an idiot.

[1204] They're like, do you want a piece of tape?

[1205] Oh, I am always, no. I am always no. Even if I would benefit from it, I'm like, no, I don't want a piece of tape.

[1206] I say no, all the time.

[1207] You feel so insulted.

[1208] No, I'm fine.

[1209] I can remember where that is, I think.

[1210] And then I don't, of course, I mess it up.

[1211] And I'm like, can I have the tape?

[1212] Is that tape still around?

[1213] How about that tape?

[1214] It was a skill that I learned on the show because I had to develop it with the way that we shot the show, the way that we shot the show in season one, which I'd never shot anything like that before.

[1215] I never worked with a camera like that before.

[1216] It's where I sort of fell in love with the camera in a way that I don't think I had before and fell in love with cinematography in a way that I don't think I had before, just working that closely, quite literally, with the camera.

[1217] So I had to develop it while doing the show.

[1218] And now I'm pretty good at it.

[1219] Now I know where it is.

[1220] I know, depending on what lens we're on, I know what that means as far as, like, how far I can go and how close I need to go.

[1221] Yeah, because within this big piece of glass you're looking at, if it's a wide angle lens, it's like a 17.

[1222] Every piece of that glass is visible to the viewer.

[1223] But if you're on a longer lens, like you're on 100, there's a little tinier aperture inside, like your pupil.

[1224] And you can probably just dance to the right or left of that actual black hole.

[1225] That's what I do.

[1226] Wow.

[1227] I find the black hole and I just kind of like a little bit off.

[1228] I do have a question.

[1229] We're talking so much about Handmaid's Hill, obviously.

[1230] But you've been on two other, like, the biggest shows of all time, West Wing and Mad Men.

[1231] It's crazy that we can kind of forget about that.

[1232] Your track record's insane.

[1233] Do you feel scared for the next one?

[1234] Not anymore, because I think maybe after Mad Men, I was a little not quite sure if it was expected to keep up this thing.

[1235] I wasn't ever really that worried about it.

[1236] I've never been somebody who's, this may shock you, but it put a lot of things.

[1237] thought into my career or a lot of sort of planning like I don't do that you just try to do the best job you can and make something that you would want to watch that you would like and you would think is either cool or funny or great or wild and then that's it that's kind of all you can do there's also so much on television I feel like there's no pressure because something for everyone there's good stuff yeah the suitcase episode of madman is one of the best episodes of tv ever it's so good it's my favorite last question about the close -ups i don't love looking at my face i don't know many people that love looking at their face i need to know what is it like to see your fucking face under a microscope for five seasons it really makes you get over yourself i make the craziest faces when i'm acting that are just not pretty faces but i don't think about it so i don't think about the face that i'm making and then sometimes we'll be watching it and be like Jesus Christ What am I doing with my insist?

[1238] Literally, what am I doing with my face?

[1239] Yeah.

[1240] So I have no ego about it anymore.

[1241] And I've had to watch myself so many times.

[1242] As a producer, you know, you watch all the cuts and you watch over and over.

[1243] And you have opportunities for vanity.

[1244] Often there's two takes.

[1245] Both are really good.

[1246] You're going to make a decision.

[1247] And one you look cuter and one you look less cute.

[1248] And you've got to have some ethics in that choice.

[1249] I'm the person who, if I think I look too good, I get mad.

[1250] Especially on handmaids.

[1251] If there's a time when we've done my hair too well and maybe it hasn't settled yet or my skin looks too nice, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We've got to take this down.

[1252] Okay.

[1253] Is it transferred into your real life?

[1254] Completely.

[1255] I've never been a very vain person.

[1256] I've never been a person who got by on my looks or got jobs because of the way I looked.

[1257] I was never the cheerleader type, which was interesting going on auditions when I was a teenager.

[1258] And I was never, ever.

[1259] going to get certain kinds of jobs.

[1260] I always was the one who was kind of doing something weird or dark and playing some sort of strange character.

[1261] So because of that, I think it was actually really good in retrospect because now I don't place a lot of value on certain things.

[1262] That said, I love shopping.

[1263] I love skin care.

[1264] Ooh, me too.

[1265] Have you done the Vogue skincare video yet?

[1266] No. You need to do that.

[1267] I don't know if she wants the star in it.

[1268] I think she wants to maybe watch.

[1269] I've watched most of them.

[1270] No, I want her to be.

[1271] I know, but you...

[1272] Why don't you do one of me?

[1273] I will.

[1274] I'll record you.

[1275] And then we'll send it to vote.

[1276] Okay, great.

[1277] So we did it for you guys.

[1278] Exactly.

[1279] I love those videos.

[1280] I love going to see my facialist, my ascetician.

[1281] I love all that stuff.

[1282] But more of a, I like it because it's fun for me as a girl.

[1283] And it feels good.

[1284] And I like when I look good.

[1285] This is the best version of myself.

[1286] Not that I'm trying to be that girl, but I want to be the best version of me. Exactly.

[1287] And I don't really get the worst.

[1288] work and that confused.

[1289] Monica and I are really vain and we're very jealous.

[1290] Are you guys really vain?

[1291] I'm really vain.

[1292] I don't get that.

[1293] I mean, now that I'm a dad and all, it has dissipated quite a bit, but very conscious of how I look all the time, embarrassingly so.

[1294] But I feel like knowing that already kind of puts you a step ahead of that.

[1295] It's not an arresting vanity, but I'm very vain.

[1296] It's an interesting sector of vanity.

[1297] It's not like you're obsessed with how you look, so you're going to alter the way you look or you're going to, like, look in the mirror for 20 minutes.

[1298] It is just looking in the mirror and being like, ugh, all right.

[1299] There we go.

[1300] That's what he's talking about that we do.

[1301] I can't tell you how many times I leave a mirror, and literally the last sentence I say out loud is like, oh, who gives a fuck?

[1302] Yeah.

[1303] Which is not like what someone who loved what they saw says when they leave their, oh, just fuck it.

[1304] Don't even think about it.

[1305] I have to say that.

[1306] I see, I don't think that's right.

[1307] We'd be so out on a limb to be like, we just look in the mirror and love it or don't even care or don't pay any attention.

[1308] No, it's not like I didn't pick out an outfit for today.

[1309] Exactly.

[1310] I kept on and put dry shampoo in my hair.

[1311] Yeah.

[1312] I know.

[1313] I did.

[1314] I brushed it and then I put some dry shampoo in it.

[1315] Looks great.

[1316] I've made an effort because I believe in making some sort of effort.

[1317] An act of good faith.

[1318] You don't want to insult us.

[1319] I start to mess with my hair and I go, get real.

[1320] It's never going to do the thing you want.

[1321] That's the thing too.

[1322] It's the older you get, the more you're just like, I think we're good.

[1323] I want to own, though, my own character defects in my insecurities, which is like, weirdly, that's why I've always been attracted to, like, working out.

[1324] Because I have a say -so in how my body looks.

[1325] It's a wrap on the face.

[1326] Unless I'm going to get plastic surgery, which I'm not, it is what it is.

[1327] But the body is malleable.

[1328] I can change it.

[1329] And I think I've always been very attracted to doing that.

[1330] And I don't think that's vanity.

[1331] I think that's where you want to represent yourself and makes you feel good about yourself.

[1332] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1333] Madman.

[1334] So very misogynistic world, Gilead, very misogynistic world.

[1335] But the opposite, because now it's from the female perspective.

[1336] Yeah, that's true.

[1337] I don't want to tread into, like, super generic world that I'm sure every interview you do is trying to get you to comment on.

[1338] You are part of the ultimate kind of boys club.

[1339] And I love the show.

[1340] I'm not critiquing it.

[1341] But I'm stoked that you're exploring the same topic, but in the driver's seat.

[1342] I like it.

[1343] Thank you.

[1344] Yeah.

[1345] It's been an interesting journey because the way that we talked about Mad Men when it first started, even in press, and doing interviews and stuff and the conversation about that show was so different than the conversations that are happening now.

[1346] So it's been an interesting perspective for me on that part of it.

[1347] How quickly it evolved.

[1348] Yeah.

[1349] And, you know, at the beginning of Mad Men, I remember it was like, oh, it's so cool and so sexy and everyone's drinking and smoking and it's awesome.

[1350] It looks amazing.

[1351] It was so cool.

[1352] And that's very, very true.

[1353] Yes, it was.

[1354] I saw it morph over the seasons where all of a sudden the questions were about the women.

[1355] All of a sudden the questions were more about the culture in the workplace and equal pay.

[1356] I saw it change in front of my eyes.

[1357] And then we had the sort of like in between period between Mad Men and Handmaids and it changed even more.

[1358] Now the conversation that we have on Handmaids is different now than it was at the beginning of the show.

[1359] I enjoy when conflicting things are happening in my brain.

[1360] I like when cognitive dissonance is happening.

[1361] I like trying to So in some part, as a man watching Mad Men, there's this weird fantasy nostalgia.

[1362] That's not a bad scenario for me. Now, if I'm a woman watching it, I'm not having any of that.

[1363] And then so simultaneous to me thinking, oh, that's a fun fantasy for a male, because basically, the world is designed to service you.

[1364] That's appealing as an egotomaniacal hedonist, right?

[1365] And then, as someone who loves women, there's also this other really conflicting things.

[1366] in my head going, this is horrifying, and those women were slaves and all this stuff.

[1367] And it's all happening at once in my head.

[1368] And I kind of like it.

[1369] And I think that's kind of the point.

[1370] I think that's a good thing.

[1371] I think that's supposed to happen.

[1372] It's supposed to evolve into that.

[1373] Well, I do think some men just watched it and been like, fuck, I wish I was living.

[1374] You know, I don't know that there was the other.

[1375] I don't know that they got there.

[1376] Maybe even some women, like, oh, life was simpler.

[1377] Then I just baked shit.

[1378] Of course.

[1379] Everyone has different reactions to these things.

[1380] But I do think that the point of the whole thing was to get you to have that.

[1381] experience to go, well, this is kind of great, right?

[1382] And then over the seven seasons, getting to a place of like, oh, you know, it'd be easy to just focus on the wives who are having a good time at a Tupperware party, but to see you and go like, oh, no, that's a modern woman who wants a lot more out of life.

[1383] And what's interesting about Peggy was she was such an accidental feminist.

[1384] Like, she was somebody who did not set out to change the game.

[1385] She wasn't this whole other very valuable section of second way of feminism, which were the women who were out marching and writing and speaking and doing all of these things so valuable to the movement.

[1386] Then there was a woman like Peggy who was just in this place of, I'm so sorry, I don't understand.

[1387] So I'm doing more work than you.

[1388] Exactly.

[1389] But you're getting paid more.

[1390] And she just had this almost naivete about it.

[1391] I'm sure they thought about this.

[1392] There is a genuine good explanation for this.

[1393] And then when she didn't get it, she was like, well, maybe we shouldn't do that anymore.

[1394] I feel like we should probably changed how we run this, right guys?

[1395] And they were like, no, thanks.

[1396] I love that accidental feminist.

[1397] I think that was a lot of people at the time.

[1398] It was a lot of people at the time.

[1399] And still.

[1400] It was a lot of women in the workplace at the time and still is.

[1401] Well, I read a New Yorker interview with you.

[1402] I read a New York Times thing with you.

[1403] I watch you on this show.

[1404] I watch you on that show.

[1405] And I see the thrust of what people want handmaids to be about.

[1406] Everyone feels like it's perfectly on a platter expressing how they feel about a single issue.

[1407] And it varies.

[1408] There's people that think it's about this.

[1409] There's people that.

[1410] And they want you to basically levy a verdict for them, I think ultimately to know that they were right.

[1411] I don't want to do that to you.

[1412] But one part of Gilead that I find really fascinating in the same way that Mad Men was appealing, unlike this dark level, I don't think there's a political spectrum.

[1413] I don't think it's a straight line and you have the left and you have the right.

[1414] I think of it much more as it's a circle and I weirdly think Gilead is the intersection of the circle of the far left and the far right in this way.

[1415] If you're on the left, you watch it and you're like, oh, horrific.

[1416] But you guys go to the grocery store and the people on the left are like, boy, that food looks really healthy and organic and the air is clean in Gilead and the water has been returned to its former glory.

[1417] So what's weird is that I feel like Gilead is the perfect intersection of what the loop of the spectrum is, which which is both people on either ends of the spectrum think that their problems would be solved by returning to a previous time in history.

[1418] For the people on the left, it'd be the 1800s when food was pure and you didn't put things in your body and everything was clean and organic, right?

[1419] And it's a fantasy.

[1420] And then on the far end of the right, it's that women are gayifying and feminizing all men and ruining everything.

[1421] And so Gilead is this weird cross of those two.

[1422] That's one of the things that people forget about Gilead.

[1423] That is the green thing that you just talked about in our dystopian fiction, because it is.

[1424] It is sort of like a made -up future, hybrid of some things.

[1425] Women aren't having babies anymore, and that's how this all starts.

[1426] And so they develop this whole green program, and they purify the air, and they purify the water, and all the cars are hybrid, and everything's organic.

[1427] And they bring the birth rate back up.

[1428] In season five, where we're getting to now, which I think is kind of cool, is Gilead is getting even smarter.

[1429] they're getting more internationally savvy.

[1430] So what my point is, is figuring out how to straddle that left and right, figuring out how to remain inside the circle rather than committing to one side is something that Gilead is getting very good at.

[1431] Well, and I think it's good writing.

[1432] If you just painted it as these are family value people.

[1433] Well, of course, if the women aren't having babies, it's because women are in the workforce and women are doing this, right?

[1434] Like, if it were singularly that, A, it would be dishonest.

[1435] That's not really how it would shake out.

[1436] It only appealed to one end of the spectrum.

[1437] And because it's this really comprehensive thing, it's more compelling.

[1438] There are upsides to Gilead.

[1439] I'm glad there are.

[1440] It makes it more complicated to evaluate.

[1441] It also humanizes the experience as well.

[1442] If this was any sort of great theocracy or dictatorship, I mean, you've got to convince the people that there's something good about it.

[1443] Yeah, exactly.

[1444] People generally aren't stupid.

[1445] They want to do the right thing and they want to do what's best for their families and all of that.

[1446] So what Gilead did that was so smart was they did present something that was pretty appealing.

[1447] Being able to bring the birth rate back up, being able to have healthy babies, being able to have families, being able to do all that, like was very appealing.

[1448] Those aren't bad things to want.

[1449] Right.

[1450] Those are great things to want.

[1451] Then as Brad's character, Lawrence would say Gilead has to Gilead.

[1452] They got all crazy.

[1453] on it.

[1454] Then they did all this other stuff that wasn't as good.

[1455] Yeah.

[1456] Well, all roads do lead back to like when you put men in charge, you're going to get a pretty predictable outcome.

[1457] Yeah.

[1458] It seems to be like a cyclical sort of thing.

[1459] Yeah.

[1460] Hence why your friend, Warren Littlefield, invited you to be a producer early on.

[1461] Yes.

[1462] Let's get some women involved.

[1463] You know, I think this year we only have one male director and that's Brad.

[1464] Wow.

[1465] Who snuck in there.

[1466] Oh, he did.

[1467] Yeah.

[1468] He's a token.

[1469] Yeah.

[1470] Token mail.

[1471] If we got to let us set of balls into the party, I prefer their bread at least.

[1472] Yeah.

[1473] Throw the bone.

[1474] That would be more you and I geeking out about drag care.

[1475] Things that Monica can cut out.

[1476] We're putting our extended cut.

[1477] It is really quick.

[1478] The high of getting a oner.

[1479] I love it.

[1480] I love doing a oner.

[1481] It's so fun.

[1482] It's such a high.

[1483] And yes, the decision of whether or not you back yourself up, which I've done both.

[1484] I've done the oneer where I have not back myself.

[1485] off up with anything and then I've done it where I have with equal success and failure.

[1486] Sometimes I've used the backup and sometimes I haven't.

[1487] That moment where you walk back and you're watching, you're trying to be scrutinizing, but you're also too excited that you might have got to be impossible.

[1488] And everybody's crowded around.

[1489] So just really quick.

[1490] A wonder is when the scene starts, you're in a single shot.

[1491] The camera shoots from one angle and maybe it changes, but you never cut, you never cut to a close -up, you never cut to another angle.

[1492] You let it roll and you pray that everything falls perfectly.

[1493] And it's the ballet.

[1494] It's the ballet.

[1495] Good ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1496] Good bring back.

[1497] Thank you.

[1498] Ballet.

[1499] Okay, so I talked about everything I wanted to do.

[1500] Was you at any moment?

[1501] Did you feel like there was one you had to table because I was telling her stories about myself?

[1502] Okay.

[1503] You're still thinking about that?

[1504] Oh, I will think about this for another 16, 18 hours.

[1505] You can't do that because then people will be resistant to call it out.

[1506] Oh, wow.

[1507] Okay.

[1508] I de -incentivize you because you know it's going to ruin.

[1509] I can't handle it.

[1510] Right.

[1511] Okay.

[1512] That's great.

[1513] Basically, you're messing up again.

[1514] That's right.

[1515] I have one last question about handmaids.

[1516] And just to let everyone know again, it'll have started by the time you're listening to this on Hulu season five of one of the greatest shows ever made, of which Elizabeth directs a bunch of them.

[1517] Without any spoilers, she's in the Walter White situation right now.

[1518] biggest compliment you can give me oh okay good are you kidding you can start with a noble cause and you can start in self -defense but on the other side of victory it can change you and affect you and i feel like june's very much like is this cow going to go rogue and just be a fucking vigilante is she going to disconnect from everything she thought she was fighting for in the first place is that now just this bogus justification for more war and bloodshed and vitriol and vengeance is it all of that yes it's a very scary place to see you someone you've been rooting for.

[1519] Yeah.

[1520] I love the arc that she has this season.

[1521] It's not just lip service.

[1522] I actually do think it's really smart.

[1523] We're going to wrap it up next year.

[1524] And she's not the same woman she was before Gilead, obviously.

[1525] She's not the same woman she was in Gilead.

[1526] Right.

[1527] And she's starting to not be the same person that she was when she got back, when she got to Canada.

[1528] Yeah.

[1529] That person who was very fragile and sort of just got out of prison and just didn't know how to deal with normal people and was very, very, very, very, very angry, which is what we kind of got at the end of season four and we get in the beginning of season five, there's kind of a new person that's being introduced from that because how do you do that and still be a mother?

[1530] How do you do that and still be a wife and a friend?

[1531] You can't.

[1532] So she has to figure out a way to balance that and it's not easy and I don't know if we do this season, but that's what she's kind of trying to do.

[1533] War changes you, right?

[1534] You go to there one person and you come back a different person, then there's a period of making peace with those two people and like, who are you now post all those things?

[1535] And what if the war is still going?

[1536] Do you go back?

[1537] Do you join up again?

[1538] Do you run away?

[1539] What is the best way to fight the war?

[1540] Because sometimes the best way to fight the war isn't necessarily on the battlefield.

[1541] That's why I tell myself when I don't enlist.

[1542] When I don't go over to the Ukraine to help, I tell myself.

[1543] Well, maybe I'm better just on this show talking about it a lot.

[1544] But it's also a good metaphor in life for any mini battle you're fighting at all.

[1545] If you're in a relationship battle, if you're in anything, sometimes the most obvious way is not the best way.

[1546] June has dealt with hurting people a lot.

[1547] Her actions have hurt people.

[1548] She's gotten a little dark.

[1549] She's a murderer.

[1550] Yeah.

[1551] So let's just call it what it is.

[1552] She's a cold -blooded killer.

[1553] And was before the finale last year, everyone's like, oh my God, she's a murderer.

[1554] And I'm like, she'd kill people.

[1555] people before that.

[1556] She's been racking up.

[1557] Oh, yeah.

[1558] Like left a body count in Gilead, you know?

[1559] I mean, truly.

[1560] And so how do you continue to be a person in the world knowing the things that you know and knowing that that's what you did and who you've become?

[1561] So juicy.

[1562] Role of a lifetime.

[1563] Yeah, it kind of is.

[1564] Well, you're so fun.

[1565] Your eyes are so hypnotic.

[1566] Your skin is so moisturized.

[1567] These are all things that we're probably shocking.

[1568] I can't wait to do.

[1569] skincare video with you.

[1570] I used a serum and a sunscreen today.

[1571] What serum?

[1572] Joanna Vargas, Eden Pro Serum, which has good things in it.

[1573] I don't know what they are, but they're good.

[1574] When we do the video, you'll have to memorize the ingredients.

[1575] Oh, yeah, that's true.

[1576] I'll have to talk about, like, why the solicit gas is good and why the, like.

[1577] Botanicals work.

[1578] You put your hand up to the camera.

[1579] You might do an A. Yeah.

[1580] No paribins.

[1581] Oh, there you go.

[1582] A lot of, like, washing my baby.

[1583] You see, I'm trying to get in this.

[1584] You're doing great.

[1585] I'm kind of like pitching myself.

[1586] Soft Soft audition right now.

[1587] No one's joining your workout.

[1588] video.

[1589] Monica and I will not be there.

[1590] We're washing her faces.

[1591] I don't know that I'm signing off on that.

[1592] I think we could put together a very nice calisthenics video.

[1593] Elizabeth, what a pleasure to meet you finally.

[1594] Truly.

[1595] Long time coming.

[1596] We've wanted you forever.

[1597] I'm so delighted you came in a person.

[1598] I've been wanting to do this forever.

[1599] Oh, good.

[1600] I'm so glad it finally worked out.

[1601] Me too.

[1602] It makes more sense now that I know you live in New York.

[1603] Yeah, yeah.

[1604] At some point, I was like, well, she clearly doesn't want to do the show.

[1605] She lives in L .A. They only shoot the show eight months a year.

[1606] And she can't find the time.

[1607] What would she do with the rest of the time?

[1608] So she doesn't want to do the show.

[1609] And then I tried to do it another time.

[1610] We tried to do it earlier and something happened.

[1611] Anyway, there's always something.

[1612] This is the first time I've been in L .A. Poor Rob.

[1613] Is that what I was like that?

[1614] It is.

[1615] Yeah.

[1616] Then fuck Robb.

[1617] Also, Rob's a rascal.

[1618] He's a little rascal.

[1619] Oh, my God.

[1620] He's the rascalliest rascal you'll ever meet.

[1621] Yeah.

[1622] He's naughty.

[1623] Okay.

[1624] Anyway, yeah, it's my first time I've been in L .A. since February 2020.

[1625] That's why I've not come and done this.

[1626] Okay.

[1627] Well, we're so happy we waited in person.

[1628] because originally it was going to be Zoom.

[1629] This is so much better.

[1630] No, no, no. I don't think this is much better.

[1631] I want to see in your handbag.

[1632] You and Monica Cunner Bond is.

[1633] Claire V. Oh, Claire V. Shout out.

[1634] Claire Fee, I can't think of a better ambassador to your brand.

[1635] Seriously.

[1636] She's not done any printwork today, but she is open to it.

[1637] Tech avail.

[1638] She secures up her retirement plan.

[1639] She has not ruled out some tasteful printwork.

[1640] Elizabeth, what a party.

[1641] Thank you so much.

[1642] Thank you very, very much.

[1643] And now my favorite.

[1644] part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1645] Oh my gosh.

[1646] They're selling merch there now?

[1647] It's more private.

[1648] Well, you know, because Denver is the conspiracy.

[1649] Yes, yes.

[1650] Mine fell.

[1651] My other one fell.

[1652] Oh, no, you have two.

[1653] Yeah, he gave me two.

[1654] Oh, no!

[1655] Dave, you got both of you guys' pins?

[1656] Well, even worse, he gave her two.

[1657] Well, that's not worse.

[1658] Well, it isn't that he had three.

[1659] He could have easily distributed.

[1660] Oh, yeah, yeah, okay.

[1661] I don't want one, David, anymore.

[1662] The plot keeps thickening.

[1663] Do you want this gargoyle?

[1664] No, I don't.

[1665] I'm sure.

[1666] Not if it's from David.

[1667] It's from me. I got this head, and I'm giving it too rough.

[1668] Well, this is appropriate for our fact check because people are already up to date on the intro family drama.

[1669] That's right.

[1670] Yeah.

[1671] Look at David's face.

[1672] Oh, God, he's really.

[1673] It's because he doesn't How do I defend you right now?

[1674] This is indefensible.

[1675] I want to defend you.

[1676] I can, but it'll be brutal.

[1677] Face blindness?

[1678] No, it's going to be harsher than that.

[1679] I matter less.

[1680] No, no, that's not true at all.

[1681] I'll tell you.

[1682] Oh, God.

[1683] I pay him and you're hot.

[1684] So this is easy, Rob.

[1685] This is real.

[1686] This is life on planet earth.

[1687] I didn't pay him.

[1688] I'd be in the same fucking group as you.

[1689] You could either be hotter or you could write the checks.

[1690] Those are your two options to get a free pen.

[1691] You're very hot, Rob.

[1692] Well, according to David.

[1693] Well, yeah.

[1694] I don't know what David feels about your hot is.

[1695] You're very hot.

[1696] You're way more attractive than I am.

[1697] I want to be clear on that.

[1698] But I'm saying, per David.

[1699] I do want to defend the movie invite scenario.

[1700] There's a part of New Zealand culture that plays into this.

[1701] Okay.

[1702] where when we do something, whenever I would make something, my default assumption is that no one I know is going to want to come and see that thing.

[1703] Of course.

[1704] That is just the default.

[1705] It doesn't even enter my mind that someone will want to come.

[1706] So that's not going to happen.

[1707] Also, I'm mortified when friends see stuff I've done because I'm so scared that they won't like it.

[1708] They might say something.

[1709] I want to show my work to a bunch of strangers that I'm never going to make.

[1710] I hope you heard I made that case for you.

[1711] That's exactly how I am.

[1712] If I'm going to go up in flames, I want to do it anonymously.

[1713] I did ask you a week before, though, if you were doing a screening, if you had a link, because I wanted to see it.

[1714] Yeah, so you requested a link, and links, not an option.

[1715] Because we haven't sold the documentary, links just don't exist because of it.

[1716] I didn't mean you know I wanted to see it.

[1717] Yeah, so Monica had hounded me for quite a while, and so she got on the list very early.

[1718] It was like, she knew about the festival it was coming to.

[1719] It was like aware she'd seen my post about it.

[1720] and so she sort of forced her way in there forced my hand.

[1721] Dax got in there he ran the whole night.

[1722] He was providing a service He's providing a service around the whole night That's right You said to me very specifically Rob Can I please come to the thing I very specifically like went through all the list I made some calls I found out someone that wasn't going to come I chased people up I got you a name that you could come in as but you refuse to come as that person Well he was indignant Right that was That's my thing That was also like three o 'clock and I have two small children, so it was harder for me to...

[1723] I solved your problem.

[1724] You know, he said, can I come?

[1725] Is there a ticket for me?

[1726] Yes, you say this name you're in.

[1727] I'll be down there.

[1728] I can sort it out.

[1729] And then didn't get a text bag.

[1730] So this is a little tiny bit different than what we heard.

[1731] And the part that was left out was that I asked prior about going.

[1732] They asked for a screener.

[1733] Right.

[1734] You asked for a link.

[1735] David reads things very literally because of his face blind.

[1736] Like he can't make out what people want.

[1737] He can read, no, he can read nonverbal.

[1738] Citi doesn't know how to, he only can read the words as they are.

[1739] He doesn't know that there's stuff underneath.

[1740] I don't know about the stuff underneath.

[1741] And it gets you in trouble, which is why we'll hear now.

[1742] He hates stuff underneath.

[1743] He won't tell secrets.

[1744] Yeah.

[1745] Okay, but here's what I want to say.

[1746] So what would be very hurtful to me, Rob, is if David was like, I don't want Rob at this screen.

[1747] Well, that's what it felt like.

[1748] I don't want Rob at this screening is very hurtful.

[1749] I would be devastated.

[1750] But now that you've heard, David never, ever once in his mind was like, I got to keep Rob out of this.

[1751] Well, yeah.

[1752] That didn't have.

[1753] Like, there was a series of poorly managed opportunities to make you happy, but never an intention to keep you away from the movie.

[1754] A hundred percent.

[1755] Now, the pin on the other hand is a different animal.

[1756] Now that's a whole different animal And now I don't have a huge Defensive view on the PIN So let's talk about the PIN Oh, I just did an episode For Flightless Bird a button At Denver Airport The Airport gave me three pins Oh they get Okay They gave Oh you presented it as he bought you this pin Right so no but I like that That's better for you Rob They gave three pins It's different than David was at the store In the airport and was picking out pins for us and didn't get one for Rob.

[1757] Yeah, and I gave one to you, Monica.

[1758] I gave one to Dax, and then there was a little tiny extra one.

[1759] Yeah, it wasn't even...

[1760] It could have gone to Rob.

[1761] I do own that.

[1762] That was bad.

[1763] And I apologize.

[1764] I will never apologize for the Mr. Organ film situation, but I absolutely apologize because that was my bad.

[1765] Okay.

[1766] Glad we're through this.

[1767] Do you accept his apology?

[1768] Are you going to harbor...

[1769] Are you putting it in the vault to later be unleashed on him?

[1770] No, I'm not going to unleash anything on him.

[1771] I accept your apology.

[1772] I think this is nice.

[1773] Yeah.

[1774] And I'm happy to share this extra pin with you, Rob.

[1775] Anytime you want, we can have joint custody of this scar.

[1776] I love all you.

[1777] I appreciate you.

[1778] I love all you guys a lot.

[1779] Come on.

[1780] Everyone loves each other so much here.

[1781] I have a concert next week in Rob, the last folder.

[1782] We'll see.

[1783] We'll see.

[1784] Wait, when you're going to, I'm not invited to that.

[1785] Well, I am not starting again.

[1786] I have another theory, but it's going to.

[1787] really border on sexual harassment so I would not ever for me or David for you okay then you can you're you sure so I just want the audiences you hear yeah okay I do think that David was so he got these three pins and he was gifted three pins yeah he came to have three pins and he's like I give my my quote boss one right they got to like kick one up to the boss and then he's like oh man this is going to look great on Monica.

[1788] She'll put it on her she'll put it on her sweater.

[1789] Hold on.

[1790] Oh, no. That's.

[1791] And then he was like, man, that's going to look good on there.

[1792] And then he's like, oh, but there probably should be two.

[1793] You're the worst person.

[1794] That's different sizes?

[1795] Yeah, that'd be disgusting.

[1796] You should have given me the tiny one in retrospect and then her matching.

[1797] Monica, here's two of the exact same pin.

[1798] You wear a above the new trend is to wear two on the nipple area well no i don't know that he went that far he imagine this pin sitting above one breast and he's like that feels uneven i better give her the second one where did i put my pin though on your well on your pocket uh -huh on my pants weird david did you imagine what the pin would look like on monica i i didn't see i know and now i'm see You see, this is where you get yourself into trouble.

[1799] I paint myself into a couple corners.

[1800] You do.

[1801] Because now you're sad he didn't imagine.

[1802] Yes, that's right.

[1803] Well, I shouldn't have asked that follow -up question.

[1804] I was almost there.

[1805] I almost threaded the needle.

[1806] You're getting better.

[1807] Who is this episode for?

[1808] This is for Elizabeth Moss.

[1809] Oh, wonderful.

[1810] I do want to say a couple things.

[1811] I had a really nice encounter with an armchair yesterday.

[1812] Where?

[1813] At the gas station.

[1814] Okay, great.

[1815] The 76.

[1816] The Hillhurst one, where you let out a lot of gas.

[1817] Or I had just, yeah, it caused an environmental disaster.

[1818] Yes.

[1819] I was there getting gas and there was a car accident that happened at the intersection.

[1820] Okay.

[1821] A light rear ending or like a full T -boning.

[1822] Someone was making a left and got blasted?

[1823] Exactly.

[1824] And then I think that person left.

[1825] A hit and run.

[1826] Yeah.

[1827] So then everyone at the gas station besides me is like, you know, having a kerfuffle over it.

[1828] like they want to know where the person is.

[1829] They're all chit -chatting and getting excited.

[1830] They're deputizing each other.

[1831] Exactly.

[1832] To get involved.

[1833] And there was one guy who was standing there.

[1834] I guess he was probably about to cross the street when this happened.

[1835] And so he like kind of walked down.

[1836] He had headphones in.

[1837] He kind of walked down and was like, did that guy leave?

[1838] And I didn't know if he was talking to me or not, so I didn't answer.

[1839] Okay.

[1840] And I was cleaning out my car because now.

[1841] Now I'm very anxious about the state of my car.

[1842] Oh, because of the trunk debacle.

[1843] Yeah.

[1844] Uh -huh.

[1845] And this guy kind of poked his head in my, like over the, my, my door was opens, but he kind of like leaned over and he said, are you Monica?

[1846] I said, yes.

[1847] And he said, I'm, I'm listening to the Scarlett Johansson episode right now.

[1848] And it's like, oh my God, that's so cool.

[1849] Did you say ding, ding, ding?

[1850] No. You could have given him a real life ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1851] I wasn't in that mindset.

[1852] Yeah, I was in my cleaning mode.

[1853] By the way, if he had been in the fact check of that episode, he would have actually been learning of the disarray of your car while he watched you deal with it.

[1854] That would have been a ducked -up goose times, a ding, ding, dang.

[1855] You're right.

[1856] Wow.

[1857] Yeah, so he was really complimentary, and it was really sweet.

[1858] And I was happy to have him as a listener.

[1859] His name's Josh.

[1860] Shout out Josh.

[1861] He was very cute.

[1862] Oh, he was.

[1863] And I liked that.

[1864] I was like, oh, we have like a hot male listener.

[1865] Yes.

[1866] What do you think his age was?

[1867] I'm bad at that.

[1868] Yeah.

[1869] Well, your eyes aren't good.

[1870] Let's start with your handicapped.

[1871] Yeah, he might not have been hot, to be fair.

[1872] Yeah, I just.

[1873] Could have been a female.

[1874] Yeah.

[1875] No, he was a man, and his name was Josh, and he was fit, and he.

[1876] Oh, and top of being cute.

[1877] And he was cute, and he listens to our show.

[1878] Oh, my God.

[1879] Would you say he was in his 20s or his 30s or his 40s?

[1880] I would guess 30s.

[1881] I would guess.

[1882] Oh.

[1883] But I'm not sure.

[1884] I'm not going to think of that.

[1885] So maybe your age.

[1886] Maybe.

[1887] Did he inquire about what was next?

[1888] No. Oh, okay.

[1889] Remember when you don't ask that question?

[1890] Right, right.

[1891] Anyway, Josh, if you're listening, a shout out to you.

[1892] Maybe he was the one that did the hit and run.

[1893] Oh.

[1894] Great alibi.

[1895] I couldn't have been in that accident.

[1896] I was talking to Monica from armchair expert.

[1897] You're right.

[1898] Right, Monica?

[1899] Yeah, and I would.

[1900] You would have said anything because he was cute.

[1901] Yeah.

[1902] Even if I saw him commit the crime, I would say.

[1903] No, no. I don't know.

[1904] We were chatting.

[1905] Couldn't have been him.

[1906] He's too hot.

[1907] Too hot to be fucking off like that.

[1908] Okay.

[1909] Also, on my walk here today, I ran into another arm cherry, and she was really sweet, too.

[1910] Do we get her name?

[1911] No. Josh?

[1912] Wasn't Josh.

[1913] Okay.

[1914] I regret not getting her name.

[1915] David, how often are you running into arm cherries?

[1916] You're a podcast sensation now.

[1917] Are you getting flagged?

[1918] Oh, occasionally bump into lovely people.

[1919] The only encounter I had that I found really awkward, it was a mum who had just picked up her teenage kid from school and had let the kid out of the car, then saw me and just wanted to talk about, mainly armchair expert, which is annoying.

[1920] It wasn't about like this bird by humid her.

[1921] So your danks is wonderful.

[1922] It's wonderful branding on.

[1923] Meanwhile, her kid was so dark and embarrassed.

[1924] And she just went and sat on the doorstep.

[1925] She didn't have a key.

[1926] She couldn't get in the house while her mom just was really really cold.

[1927] And remember her poor daughter.

[1928] So all I could see, I was looking at the mom and then my eyes would flick across to the daughter, so angry and so annoyed.

[1929] And eventually, I just had to bail from that conversation.

[1930] And Americans love, they love conversation.

[1931] I'm bad at ending it.

[1932] So I just slowly started walking away.

[1933] Backwards?

[1934] Or you turn your back to them?

[1935] Backwards.

[1936] And then I turn my body and then I'd turn my head back.

[1937] And eventually just left.

[1938] Mid?

[1939] Wait, mid -sentence.

[1940] Take back.

[1941] Now, I wouldn't have had a little.

[1942] lot of sympathy for the daughter who was that annoyed she was waiting two minutes to get in the house.

[1943] To be honest, it's interesting that that's who you chose to be sympathetic to it.

[1944] No, you've had a whole day at school and you've probably hungry just wanted to get inside.

[1945] Instead, you're stuck on the front step while your mom raves on.

[1946] For a whole two minutes.

[1947] It was a long, no, it was a long time.

[1948] This conversation was about 10 minutes.

[1949] Oh my God.

[1950] Oh, no, that's what I'm saying, that's like to walk away.

[1951] I tried to do natural instacs.

[1952] I tried to be outs after outs and I'll go to walk away.

[1953] Okay.

[1954] But then the conversation would start again.

[1955] and I'd see the angry daughter.

[1956] And so that's why I ended up having just to be like walking away physically extracting myself.

[1957] You had to set that boundary.

[1958] I misunderstood.

[1959] I thought you were kind of like she had said she liked me. Then she said she liked Monica.

[1960] And then you're like, I don't like this.

[1961] Oh, no. I gave so much.

[1962] Oh, okay.

[1963] What did you say about us?

[1964] I said lovely, specifically Rob, lovely.

[1965] Lovely producer here.

[1966] Holds this thing together.

[1967] Okay, next topic.

[1968] Something's happening.

[1969] My luncheonette mug is also lost.

[1970] Oh, boy.

[1971] And that's a very important mug to me. Or did you bring it into your trunk at some point?

[1972] I know, but I cleaned my, I thought, oh, maybe it's in my trunk.

[1973] And it wasn't there.

[1974] Uh -oh.

[1975] And I wonder if it's here, but I'm panicked because that's an important mug to me. And they're not making any more.

[1976] Exactly.

[1977] Yeah, that was it.

[1978] Limited edition shows over.

[1979] Oh.

[1980] But is it mine?

[1981] How will we know if it's mine?

[1982] It has to be mine.

[1983] She takes my last one.

[1984] We don't normally.

[1985] Yeah, one of these.

[1986] But what if it's yours?

[1987] I'll look in my cupboard and see if I have one.

[1988] Why don't you just take it and then if I discover I don't have one, then I won't ask for it back.

[1989] You know, like, if it's not mine, it doesn't count.

[1990] I know.

[1991] You know how I feel.

[1992] You know how I feel.

[1993] You know how I feel.

[1994] Now, that showed up recently.

[1995] This is?

[1996] That one did, yeah.

[1997] Listen, I am in a mug situation.

[1998] Like, this one went missing slash maybe I left it here.

[1999] Yeah.

[2000] Yeah, Michigan.

[2001] Yes, my Michigan.

[2002] Which there's also a Michigan mug over there.

[2003] My Michigan mug went missing.

[2004] Are you sure?

[2005] That's not it?

[2006] I'm not sure, but there's no way to know.

[2007] I think your mugs are making their way over here, and they're not lost.

[2008] No, I think they're lost, and I think it has something to do with the Tesla infestation.

[2009] Like, I think they're up to something with my mugs.

[2010] Yeah, like now this is a signal, yet a second signal, and you don't know how it all adds up.

[2011] I told Liz this.

[2012] Liz is in town.

[2013] And I told her about the infestation.

[2014] Well, no, we were driving and I said, oh, my God, white Tesla.

[2015] And she was like, what?

[2016] And I was like, yeah, there are like after me. And then she started noticing.

[2017] She was like, yeah, there is one and there too.

[2018] And she was like, yeah, you're being tracked.

[2019] Oh, she went right with you.

[2020] Yeah.

[2021] That's a good friend.

[2022] That's what you need.

[2023] That's who you wanted.

[2024] That is who you've been looking for.

[2025] You found her.

[2026] Did you call her when you cut your finger?

[2027] Yes.

[2028] Yeah.

[2029] What did she say?

[2030] She starts screaming and running in circles around her apartment.

[2031] No, she...

[2032] Oh my God, have you called 911?

[2033] She didn't, but she did say, oh, my God.

[2034] Like, you know, she met me where I needed to be.

[2035] Right.

[2036] I think this is great.

[2037] Although, I told David that I should have...

[2038] I said, oh, I should have maybe called you, and you said, yes, you should have.

[2039] But he didn't have a car, so that...

[2040] It would have been no use.

[2041] That would have been ordering an Uber.

[2042] Exactly.

[2043] I'll see you in an hour.

[2044] So it wouldn't have been helpful.

[2045] But you're very close.

[2046] I am pretty close.

[2047] I could have jogged, a gentle jog there.

[2048] Yeah, you could have been...

[2049] Brisk walk.

[2050] would have got you there in probably 12 minutes.

[2051] And I've got Band -Aids at home as well.

[2052] I could have bring one of those.

[2053] I had Band -Aids.

[2054] You needed more emotional support.

[2055] Yeah.

[2056] Do you think you could have provided that?

[2057] I would have attempted to access my emotions to help.

[2058] Well, when I told you that it happened and that maybe I should have called you, you said, yeah, you should have gone to the hospital.

[2059] Okay.

[2060] Before I knew the extent of the bleeding, I suggested that.

[2061] You now have two.

[2062] This is great.

[2063] I know.

[2064] Yeah, the secret.

[2065] I think if you really showed up, I think you would have said, we're not going to the hospital.

[2066] And Liz was doing it for me. She knew I didn't.

[2067] She didn't say you need to go to the hospital.

[2068] She just said, oh, my gosh, are you okay?

[2069] Yeah.

[2070] You know, she was just trying to be there for me. Yeah.

[2071] But she does believe you're getting tracked, which is great.

[2072] Yeah.

[2073] And I am.

[2074] Yeah.

[2075] On my walk here, there was one pulled over on the side of the row when I walked by, and then one pulled in front of me into the gate.

[2076] It's scary.

[2077] Something's really happening.

[2078] It's really scary.

[2079] There's a plot of foot.

[2080] Do you have any updates?

[2081] I have a race tomorrow.

[2082] Yes.

[2083] So I spent the morning preparing for that.

[2084] As you just recently heard, I had had a track day on Monday.

[2085] I spent the previous day preparing, and that was a disaster.

[2086] Today's prep day went a lot better.

[2087] Good.

[2088] I have four new tires on my truck, so no tire issues.

[2089] Great.

[2090] My gear arrived in time.

[2091] David, I'm competing.

[2092] in a um and rob well are we doing that now i am addressing rob every time david is the guest right when david is here i think it's appropriate that you also include rob okay also rob already knows this but rob i'm um tomorrow i'm going to go down to huntington beach and i'm going to race in this what is a big motorcycle race with real professional people and then as almost a sideshow it's very large men on kind of smaller motorcycles, a 150 -ccc motorcycle, a little motorcycle, me into Castro and some other people.

[2093] I wish I could come watch.

[2094] Yeah.

[2095] I'm already now panicked.

[2096] I can't get the girls' tickets because I was supposed to get those long ago.

[2097] This is like an event.

[2098] This is like a big event.

[2099] There's like there's going to be audience and shit sharing.

[2100] This is a ding, ding, ding.

[2101] You didn't invite.

[2102] Well, of course not.

[2103] We just went over the fact that I don't want anyone to see me do anything.

[2104] Yeah, it's a thing.

[2105] Yeah, you want to do it.

[2106] And maybe it's like I have people know.

[2107] you're doing it, but you don't want people there, eyes on you.

[2108] I have to tell you a Machiavellian part.

[2109] This is an ugly side of my character.

[2110] Oh.

[2111] So when I was invited to do this by my friend DeCastro, who is the stunt coordinator on all three the movies I did, he said, let's do this race.

[2112] And I said, oh, okay, can Aaron come?

[2113] Because I don't want to finish last.

[2114] Not best friend Aaron Weekly.

[2115] Not best friend Aaron Weekly.

[2116] But he would have done a good job as well, fulfilling that role.

[2117] The problem is, is if I can make an excuse for myself a little bit, and DeCathson, Mastro, weight is going to be an enormous issue.

[2118] These are underpowered little motorcycles.

[2119] So me and him at 215 versus the dude that's 145, we're going to get smoked, right?

[2120] So I was like, okay, bring Aaron, because often I'm faster than his best friend, Aaron.

[2121] Shout out Aaron Babian, love you.

[2122] So he's like, okay, good.

[2123] Aaron's in.

[2124] I'm like, great.

[2125] So I won't be last, hopefully.

[2126] Then I was at the track on Monday.

[2127] I saw Aaron.

[2128] Hey, I'm going to see you Saturday.

[2129] He goes, no, I can't find a fucking sitter for my dog.

[2130] Oh, no. And I said, you're not coming because you can't find a sitter for, like, drop your dog at my house or something.

[2131] You have to be in this race.

[2132] I'll take the dog.

[2133] Okay, I'll let him know today.

[2134] If that lets you not be the loser, I'll take that for you.

[2135] And then I found out yesterday from De Castro, it's not like it's just one race.

[2136] There's like qualifying.

[2137] So there's a good chance I won't even make it to the big race itself.

[2138] Anyways, you'll make it.

[2139] I already decided I'm there to have fun.

[2140] dirt bikes isn't my claim of high competency.

[2141] I'm good on a street bike, dirt bike.

[2142] Don't, very average.

[2143] Don't make it your identity.

[2144] It's not going to be.

[2145] So I'm going to have fun, but I'm probably going to lose.

[2146] Are you going to be protected, helmet, all that stuff?

[2147] Yeah, I'll have all the right stuff on my top dog Heath at Alpine Stars has me all hooked up a very gorgeous new outfit.

[2148] I'm on all white.

[2149] You'll probably see me. I'll stand out.

[2150] Like when I'm coming in the very back, you'll be like, oh, there he is.

[2151] I'll see you.

[2152] I'm invited now?

[2153] You're invited after assuming Robb's invited first.

[2154] He's first.

[2155] And I need you to be my pit crew, Rob.

[2156] I need you to work on the motorcycle.

[2157] I can do that.

[2158] Do you get nervous or excited?

[2159] Well, generally, like, when I race cars and it was actually competitive, I am very nervous sitting on the grid.

[2160] I hate waiting.

[2161] I feel constricted by all the gear I'm wearing.

[2162] Nervous, nervous, nervous.

[2163] The second the thing starts, the driving the car or the riding, the motorcycle.

[2164] I don't have any nervousness.

[2165] I just enjoy it and it's fun.

[2166] So I am now as a point of practice, I'm just jumping to a flag will be waived and I'll be riding a dirt bike and that'll be great.

[2167] So I'm not currently too nervous.

[2168] Also, again, small motorcycles, 150s.

[2169] Yeah, it's a different thing.

[2170] Yeah.

[2171] I doubt we'll get up above 50 miles an hour at any point.

[2172] Have you ever ridden a motorcycle?

[2173] I've ridden a scooter.

[2174] And that's it.

[2175] I was in Raritoga.

[2176] I got my scooter license and Off around the island, I went.

[2177] Like a Vespa?

[2178] Like a Vespa style vehicle.

[2179] Okay.

[2180] It was probably a Yamaha.

[2181] Yeah, it was a little Yamaha.

[2182] Yeah, yeah.

[2183] There's actually a lot of tourists get injured on that island because they'll get very drunk and then they'll scoot a home because that's how everyone travels and they'll just crash into a tree or fall off.

[2184] Everywhere where scooters are rented, all spring breaks, people go down to the Bahamas, they go to St. Martin, St. Kitts.

[2185] People are dropping like flies down.

[2186] Oh, boy.

[2187] Yeah, and you pick up speed and you're a bit drunk and something, it's all over.

[2188] That's right.

[2189] Have you ever rented a scooter, Monica?

[2190] I'm sorry.

[2191] Rob, have you ever had?

[2192] Oh, my God.

[2193] Okay, I don't like that.

[2194] Yeah, right?

[2195] I've run your daughter's bikes, the little Indians.

[2196] Oh, you have?

[2197] Indians, triggered.

[2198] No, that's the name of a motorcycle company.

[2199] Oh.

[2200] Do you smell really good today, Dex?

[2201] I do.

[2202] Something, some smell is emanating off you.

[2203] I think I recently put on my deodorant.

[2204] What flavor is it?

[2205] I want to go and buy some.

[2206] He does have nice deodorant.

[2207] I've noticed it.

[2208] I'm blowing it toward you.

[2209] Is that the smell?

[2210] Is it increasing?

[2211] Yeah, that's it.

[2212] Oh, wonderful.

[2213] I want to buy some of that.

[2214] It's a nice spice.

[2215] You want me to send you a pick of it from my medicine?

[2216] It's a nice deodorant.

[2217] When I was 15, I was a bit in love with a guy in my class, and he smelled a certain way.

[2218] And I remember going to the supermarket and getting all the deodorants and spraying it and trying to find what he smelled like so I could smell the same.

[2219] It was Lynx Africa.

[2220] You found it.

[2221] It's called Lynx Africa.

[2222] It's called Lynx Africa.

[2223] lynx is like the brand whatever the most terrible teenage deodorant is in america it was jacar here and yeah or it was axe body's bad news anyway although ax great product if they'd like to sponsor a very good product i'm gonna ask africa is that the name of your lynx africa lynx africa is it a secret about i'm i'm i've been told a few secrets and i don't know which ones are secrets and not.

[2224] He was upset that I brought up something that was not a secret at all.

[2225] Right.

[2226] That he does drugs.

[2227] Well, again.

[2228] Yeah.

[2229] Again.

[2230] That's fine.

[2231] Allegedly.

[2232] I might have hypothetically.

[2233] But I said that's not a secret.

[2234] We talk about...

[2235] We love drugs.

[2236] Yeah.

[2237] We're very pro -drugs.

[2238] We had Michael Pollan on.

[2239] Yeah.

[2240] What more can we do to make you feel comfortable doing drugs?

[2241] Whatever it is you're thinking of saying, it'll be a secret.

[2242] There's a thing in your brain that's holding you back.

[2243] It's the bit of your brain going, Well, now I'm afraid to say anything, but it is a ding, ding, ding to what we were just talking about.

[2244] Okay, try it out.

[2245] About your, the business you want to start.

[2246] Oh, that's okay.

[2247] Oh, wonderful.

[2248] Yeah, that's fine.

[2249] A lot of sensitive people in this room.

[2250] I just want to say that.

[2251] Who are going to just one.

[2252] Including you, sir.

[2253] I didn't say I wasn't.

[2254] I know.

[2255] That was a sensitive response.

[2256] I can't live like this.

[2257] Okay, the business.

[2258] The business.

[2259] Ding, ding, ding, smelling good.

[2260] David has a business venture that he wants to start.

[2261] Okay.

[2262] Is the best smell in the world ever, and is the best smell I've ever smell, and anyone that smells that will agree with me, is the back of a cockatiels' neck.

[2263] Wow.

[2264] So people that own parrots, I'm a big parrot guy, they have a sort of a dusty smell, a lot of birds.

[2265] Your cockatoos, your cockatiels, your conures, African grays.

[2266] If you have a pet bird, it'll sit on your finger, right?

[2267] Okay.

[2268] Not right, by the way.

[2269] You're telling us new stuff.

[2270] We don't know the names of anything you just said.

[2271] And we don't know they sit on your finger.

[2272] These birds, especially the cockatiel and the cockatoo, they love a scratch on the back of the head, aka the sort of the neck.

[2273] What they also love is what you'll end up doing, it's hard to explain if you don't have a bird, but you'll end up getting the bird and you'll sort of have it sit in your finger and you'll sort of nestle your nose in the back of its neck.

[2274] And that's just a natural thing you do to kind of scratch the bird to show affection to your bird.

[2275] But you'll also do a little sniff You'll steal a little sniff And the smell of the back of a cockatiel's neck I'm not the only one There's a Facebook group called Cockatiel Sniff is Anonymous Hundreds of thousands of people Because if you've ever sniffed a cockatiel You will know what I'm talking about Is it tropical?

[2276] No, I can't even describe it It's just the smell and there's nothing else like it There's nothing else to liken it to I want to bottle that up Pop it in a fragrance And it is going to be my ticket out of here start yacht shopping the ticket out of this this cage urine yeah but as soon as i sort out there's a word for it sort of fragrances or have you sort of whoever concocts these smells whenever i get a perfumous sort of perfumice whenever i get it sorted i will bring it to you or i'll just bring your cockatiel and you can i would love that do they ever nip at your face when you're getting that when you're stealing that smell because i do that to babies every time i hold someone's babies oh let me hold your baby they don't know i have a nefarious plot you'll sniff the back of their neck and their head everyone does that that's normal yeah yeah no it is a danger with a parrot that it will bite you my old parrot keith bit my friends dad's friends yeah too many people removed took my ear dad's friends my friend's dad's dad my parent's dad's dad the parrot's name is keith the parrot's name is key i blew right past that yeah yeah anyway they can draw bud you have to be careful yeah they're there those little beaks are meant to rip apart another animal I would only bring you a very tame, calm cockatiel to sniff.

[2277] Okay.

[2278] Do you consider yourself like an amateur ornithologist?

[2279] I, no, I don't.

[2280] Okay.

[2281] I'm really good with parrots.

[2282] Like, I've had so many parrots as pets.

[2283] I know how to care for them and look up to them.

[2284] I don't really know a lot of the technical aspects.

[2285] Okay.

[2286] David is a big bird guy.

[2287] Well, he's a very tender loving guy.

[2288] No, no, but when we went on like some of these trips, he'll like go off and find like the bird sanctuary yeah right i'm off of the birds yeah back to the how many hours you have in your day question i had when watching the dock which is like where did this slot in i don't understand where this slot it in i know i'm i try to force david to hang out with me and he's always busy i have been lately but we're going to hang out soon today potentially he does that to me too don't worry exactly okay god you're so popular david i'm jealous now i'm jealous everyone's trying to hang out David he's too busy now I'm going to ask you to hang out just to see if I can cut through the red tape I'll smell like you by then maybe you got a pin because you're hot have you thought about that I'm open to it I'm open to the idea you have that good smell and it's such a good smell so much to compete with out here how high the pin would be on my tall shoulders I'll pin it on this oh god I'm jealous now This is a mess.

[2289] Elizabeth Moss.

[2290] Since you didn't hear the interview, David, what kind of personality would you just assume Elizabeth Moss has?

[2291] I'd assume super intense just because she's in some super intense stuff.

[2292] And she's been an amazing actor.

[2293] Yeah.

[2294] I would think intense.

[2295] Melancholy maybe even?

[2296] Or you want to go that far?

[2297] I would just think not particularly not full of humor.

[2298] Yes.

[2299] So literally the opposite.

[2300] Playful.

[2301] I'd say the Antonin.

[2302] to intense would be playful.

[2303] Act just get you, don't they, like that?

[2304] You're watching their stuff.

[2305] Very mysterious.

[2306] It actually made her even more impressive as an actor, and she already was at the apex for me. She's Merrill Street.

[2307] She's just indomitable.

[2308] And then to find out she's the opposite person, it even ratcheted up a bit.

[2309] Well, to find out she barely cares about acting technique.

[2310] Like, she doesn't care, she's not taking it too seriously.

[2311] I loved that about her.

[2312] Least pretentious.

[2313] We talked a little bit about the one.

[2314] Wonderland Murders.

[2315] Oh, right.

[2316] So then I looked that up.

[2317] Yeah, because I was really trying to remember the plot of a movie I saw 20 years ago.

[2318] Boogie Nights?

[2319] But I thought it was a robbery gone bad and then a retribution, maybe some drugs.

[2320] Okay.

[2321] These are all generic guesses, aren't they, about a murder?

[2322] The Wonderland Murders, also known as the Four on the Floor Murders.

[2323] Four on the Floor, ooh, or the Laurel Canyon murders, are four unsolved.

[2324] I don't like that.

[2325] Oh, they're unsolved.

[2326] Yes.

[2327] Oh, wow.

[2328] For unsolved murders that occurred in L .A. on July 1, 1981, it is assumed that five people were targeted to be killed in the known drug house of the Wonderland gang, three of whom Ron Launius, William, Billy, Deverell, and Joy Miller were present.

[2329] Those are such 80s names, aren't they?

[2330] Yeah.

[2331] Every one of them delivered on 1981.

[2332] Those three, along with the girlfriend of an accomplice, Barbara Richardson, died from extensive blunt force trauma injuries.

[2333] only Lonius's wife Susan survived the attack allegedly masterminded by organized crime figure and nightclub owner Eddie Nash Nash, his henchman Gregory Diles and porn star John Holmes were at various times arrested, tried, and acquitted for their involvement in the murders.

[2334] I thought Johnny Holmes was involved.

[2335] You know John Holmes, right?

[2336] I don't at all.

[2337] Oh, he's the most famous porn star to ever live.

[2338] No, he was curious.

[2339] He can't be the most famous porn star to ever live because none of us have heard of him.

[2340] Well, let's put it this way.

[2341] You've heard of Ron Jeremy.

[2342] Okay, but hold on.

[2343] You've heard of deep throat.

[2344] Yeah.

[2345] That was his penis inside.

[2346] You've heard of boogie nights.

[2347] Absolutely.

[2348] That's completely based on whatever his name.

[2349] Also, I know exactly who you're talking about.

[2350] Yeah.

[2351] What's his name again?

[2352] I forget.

[2353] John Holmes.

[2354] John Holmes.

[2355] Yes, that character is based on John Holmes.

[2356] And remember, in Boogie Nights, there turns out to be some crazy crime, gnarly.

[2357] Twist, and that's all John Holmes.

[2358] It's a forgettable name.

[2359] That's the problem.

[2360] You're right.

[2361] It almost sounds like John Doe.

[2362] John Holmes, very long schlong, as you would imagine.

[2363] Famous for the length of this schlong.

[2364] I assume so, yeah.

[2365] Okay, do coyotes hurt people?

[2366] This is kind of a ding, ding, ding to something we talked about yesterday on flightless bird as well.

[2367] Yeah, they kill.

[2368] I mean, they kill.

[2369] They kill people.

[2370] Yes.

[2371] Yes, like not very many, but...

[2372] Let's see.

[2373] Let's hear about it.

[2374] Okay.

[2375] I got to say, I just, I think it was maybe because I heard you guys talking about it.

[2376] I left midway through.

[2377] Amy and Kristen were out walking through the neighborhood on like a Sunday morning, late morning, and they came upon a coyote that was so big that they decided to turn around.

[2378] And then I thought, fuck, I'm always encouraging the girls are run around the neighborhood.

[2379] And then I hated the thought of that.

[2380] And I'm like, oh, my God, of course a coyote would go.

[2381] after an eight -year -old.

[2382] Yeah, that's hard.

[2383] You're right?

[2384] They need to be aware of it, at least.

[2385] I need to arm them, right?

[2386] Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

[2387] Is that right?

[2388] Do I have this correct?

[2389] I need to give them handguns.

[2390] Okay.

[2391] A little pink handguns.

[2392] I'm left out of the walk that Amy and Kristen took.

[2393] Oh, okay.

[2394] Amy came over to get some more drove items for her wedding in New York.

[2395] She needed something formal.

[2396] and then I think she threw Kristen a bone like, okay, you're going to give me all this stuff and then I'll go on a walk with you.

[2397] All right.

[2398] I just live so close, you know.

[2399] I can pop over so fast.

[2400] Okay, so at one person per year in California, one would estimate 10 attacks per year in the U .S., giving 500 attacks in the last 50 years alone.

[2401] It's a lot.

[2402] It's not a lot, not a lot.

[2403] 10 a year in a country of 300 million.

[2404] So you have a one in 30 million chance of getting attacked this year by a coyote.

[2405] It does say coyote attacks on people are very rare.

[2406] Okay.

[2407] Are they ever deadly?

[2408] Are they lethal?

[2409] Yeah.

[2410] You said yeah, like, like duh, but I don't know that you read that.

[2411] No, they are.

[2412] Yeah, okay.

[2413] Yeah, duh.

[2414] I mean, that's the thing about an animal attack.

[2415] It's so rare when it happens, the story spreads so quickly and become such a thing.

[2416] You sort of start to assume every coyote is going to leap on you and tear you apart.

[2417] I don't want to roll the dice with my seven -a -nine -year -old.

[2418] Exactly.

[2419] I got to figure something out.

[2420] That's what I'm saying.

[2421] Everyone's like, oh, no, they're fine until it's your seven -year -old that you're thinking about.

[2422] Little Delta running like totally not.

[2423] Yeah, fuck that.

[2424] Yeah.

[2425] I started thinking, I'm not going to give them guns.

[2426] So do I have to somehow trap this coyote and release him like 100 miles from here?

[2427] We did learn in the episode.

[2428] We talked about it, so I don't think it's a secret.

[2429] Because I asked David to let me in on this type of personality, right?

[2430] like a type of person who loves animals so much.

[2431] There really is no judgment here.

[2432] I want to know what is it like to live in a brain where the animal is so precious that you're willing to put yourself in danger for it or put other humans in danger for it.

[2433] I can't comprehend it and I'd like to.

[2434] And then he said some dumb stuff.

[2435] And then he said something that hit.

[2436] he said animals are simple and humans are complicated they need our protection it's our duty that was one of the dumb stuff he said but no the reason he likes animals so much is because animals are so simple he doesn't have to like read them or memorize their face there's no big relationship aspect to it they just like animals love you and adore you regardless of anything and there's something very appealing about that they will betray you that's right I hit you with this theory like four months ago.

[2437] People who love dogs, my hunch is, or at least a high percentage of them, had very complicated relationships where that to get the love they wanted, it came with a lot of strings.

[2438] And they love to just be able to love this thing, get some love back and not be manipulated, not be.

[2439] That's right.

[2440] You didn't tell me that, but that is what David told.

[2441] Okay, yeah.

[2442] But you had complicated relationships and you don't love dogs.

[2443] And I feel like I had complicated relationships with approval.

[2444] My mother definitely just loved the daylights out of me. Now, I had to deal with certain things that came along with her.

[2445] But they were not manipulative towards me. She had her own issues with needing lots of different men to move in the house a lot.

[2446] Yeah.

[2447] But it wasn't like I'm going to give you affection.

[2448] And then right on the heels of that, I'm going to try to get you to do this thing I want you to do or think the way I think.

[2449] Yeah.

[2450] There was no manipulation.

[2451] It was just she made bad choices I was the victim of.

[2452] Right.

[2453] So I do think the source of love was very pure.

[2454] I just think she had a lot of depression and stuff.

[2455] Yeah, of course.

[2456] Yeah.

[2457] So the relationship was complicated, but I don't think the love was tainted in any way.

[2458] I know other people that to receive their mom's love, it was going to come with an agreement to do everything they said and think the way they thought.

[2459] and it was always being leveraged against them.

[2460] It was a more transactional in a way.

[2461] It was a controlling mechanism.

[2462] Can you relate at all of those things?

[2463] Yeah, 100%.

[2464] Yeah, totally.

[2465] The dog looks at you and it's like, the extent of his manipulation is going to be like, please give me a treat or take me on a walk.

[2466] Or I'll bite you.

[2467] That loves never going to get revoked for any reason or nothing's going to shift.

[2468] It's just always there 100 % of the day.

[2469] It's like very comforting.

[2470] It feels safe to you.

[2471] Yeah.

[2472] Yeah.

[2473] So I totally get the appeal of that for people of their love came with a lot of strings.

[2474] I'm sorry I wouldn't kill that rattlesnake.

[2475] I don't want to speak for you.

[2476] I don't want you to do anything you don't want to do.

[2477] Not to speak for you, but knowing what I know of your parents, they were very not manipulative.

[2478] No. Like they just loved and provided.

[2479] They loved.

[2480] But in a way that not in an affectionate way.

[2481] Not the way your peers certainly received it.

[2482] Yeah.

[2483] Yeah.

[2484] But maybe I should get a dog.

[2485] You kind of like them a lot more than you think you do.

[2486] No, I do.

[2487] I do like them.

[2488] You like them a lot.

[2489] It's like, not a lot.

[2490] You're like the prestige.

[2491] Like you're a magician and you've got to walk the routine all the time.

[2492] But I've seen you when you're not living the prestige.

[2493] No, I like Frank.

[2494] I know.

[2495] And he's the least likable of the law.

[2496] Your thing is that you don't like that dogs that bite people?

[2497] This motherfucker's a bit more people than Kujo did.

[2498] And that's the one you like.

[2499] Maybe I like him because he doesn't bite me. And that he bites people.

[2500] You like a danger boy.

[2501] He likes fighting people, but he won't bite me. That's dead on to my psyche for sure.

[2502] This is a bad, bad person, but they love me. They won't hurt me. That's why you can kind of relate to like in a serial killer.

[2503] Oh, yeah.

[2504] Yeah.

[2505] They're hot.

[2506] For sure.

[2507] So hot.

[2508] I hope Josh is.

[2509] cereal.

[2510] Oh, he probably was.

[2511] Gorgeous, just strolling around.

[2512] That's suspicious.

[2513] Speaking of, I heard this, my favorite podcast, nobody's listening right.

[2514] Elizabeth and Andy told this crazy story that I guess went viral on TikTok.

[2515] Also, big, big, big shout out to all the arm cherries who've started listening to that show and our writing reviews.

[2516] They're listening to both.

[2517] Yeah.

[2518] And they're so sweet.

[2519] And it's making them so happy.

[2520] and it makes me so happy.

[2521] And Elizabeth said she's got, I'm the patron saint, and she's going to make a day about me. Oh my gosh.

[2522] This is great.

[2523] Yeah, I know.

[2524] You've celebrated.

[2525] Yeah.

[2526] Anyway, I just, it really does warm my heart so much that people are leaving them nice comments.

[2527] And I love it.

[2528] Anyway.

[2529] Viral TikTok.

[2530] Viral TikTok.

[2531] So I guess there was this guy, he met a girl at the grocery stores.

[2532] I don't know.

[2533] He saw this girl.

[2534] I was like, oh, that's like a cute girl or something.

[2535] And then saw her somewhere else and then saw her at Disneyland.

[2536] Like he kept seeing her, like the white Tesla.

[2537] Right.

[2538] And made her mind off.

[2539] And then she was like in line behind him at Disneyland or something.

[2540] And then they started talking and it was like this whirlwind romance.

[2541] And they started dating.

[2542] And then they dated for like four years or something.

[2543] And simultaneously this woman had a business with her friend.

[2544] And I guess that business kind of imploded.

[2545] And then the friend told the boy, hey, just so you know, it wasn't like this weird coincidency thing.

[2546] She was stalking you, basically.

[2547] And like weird stuff.

[2548] Like you'd be like, oh, my God, you have all my favorite snacks.

[2549] And she's like, how weird is because she knew what he was buying.

[2550] Oh, wow.

[2551] Love that.

[2552] Isn't that crazy?

[2553] Well, look, it was like so many things.

[2554] Pop song, like, it's cold outside is a totally rapy song, right?

[2555] Yes.

[2556] Even a song that I love, you can't change that.

[2557] You're the only one I love and you can't change that.

[2558] You're the one I...

[2559] It's a great R &B song.

[2560] Okay.

[2561] He's like, you can change your telephone number.

[2562] You can change.

[2563] And it starts something like, you can be like, what?

[2564] You can move around.

[2565] You can do anything you want.

[2566] It's a call restraining order.

[2567] But it's so romantic back then.

[2568] And you just got to remember like every pop song and you listen to the actions.

[2569] We had an element of stalker.

[2570] We just, we had a different feeling about it back then.

[2571] We did.

[2572] Cat and mouse and it's romantic and it's not harassment, which it is harassment.

[2573] Go after what you love.

[2574] What's that famous at Christmas film, we were on a drop it at Christmas.

[2575] Bill Nye, he's in it.

[2576] Bill Nye?

[2577] No, not a science guy.

[2578] What's his name?

[2579] Bill Farrell.

[2580] Oh, no, I know.

[2581] Love Actually.

[2582] Love Actually.

[2583] Yes.

[2584] Love Actually is so stalkery.

[2585] It's bonk.

[2586] You know this one?

[2587] It ring about?

[2588] I do know it.

[2589] Radio?

[2590] Yeah.

[2591] Spelt weird?

[2592] I like that.

[2593] So it doesn't matter what you do or say.

[2594] Yeah, I know.

[2595] It's rough.

[2596] But I want this guy to love me. Okay, wait.

[2597] Can you pause?

[2598] Can you stop?

[2599] Can you stop?

[2600] I'm going to say pause, but I mean stop.

[2601] Can you stop?

[2602] There's a fine line, though.

[2603] right like because I also think if I said to you like there's nothing you could ever do or say that will make me stop loving you yeah that's not staggering right no yeah yeah yeah but like all these things it's a very fine line between many of these things it is it sounded like Seinfeld there the fine line what's going on with this song it also it also sounds a little bit like victim it's where he says you could change your telephone number yeah that's why would you change He doesn't say address, too, does it?

[2604] Tell the number, you can change your address.

[2605] Oh, my.

[2606] No, so it's just clearly stalking.

[2607] I finally heard that on my 1100th verse.

[2608] Kimmel, I want to say, he made me a very romantic playlist, and he sent it to me, and this was on there, and then I started listening to it over and over again.

[2609] Wow.

[2610] One other quick thing, you know, I watch YouTube videos.

[2611] Yes, I do.

[2612] And one of them is what I eat in a day.

[2613] And Mila was on.

[2614] Coonis.

[2615] Yes.

[2616] And Mila talked about how much she loves ice cream And she was talking about a place And I wanted to tell you to please text her That if she hasn't gone to Antico Nuevo She has to go for ice cream So I'm going to ask you a favorite Will you text that to me Because I won't remember those And I can't spell that I will do that You can copy paste You can text me that ice cream You can tell me to tell me la but you can't change that.

[2617] Rob, you can be really mad.

[2618] That sin he didn't invite you.

[2619] But the show's over.

[2620] We can't go back in time, so you can't change that.

[2621] Wow.

[2622] Good job.

[2623] That was pretty good.

[2624] Okay.

[2625] All right.

[2626] Well, the other stuff's not.

[2627] Oh, I mean, I guess one thing I do really want to be clear, but I don't know if it was as clear as it was in the room, but I think it was.

[2628] I asked Elizabeth a question.

[2629] You answered, and then I said, stared at you while you answered and then you noticed that I was staring at you funny but I don't know if that reads as well because I don't know that it's clear that I was asking Elizabeth oh it might have sounded like I was just asking the room or asking you but don't you think once we start unraveling the whole thing that it becomes very clear you I hope so yeah yeah but I just want to make that clear that's what was happening I was like staring at Elizabeth and asked her this would be the only time I wish we had video because it would be really great to go to a close -up of you looking at me at that moment would have been really priceless.

[2630] I wasn't, I wasn't.

[2631] No, it just was a very specific.

[2632] It was a perfect look.

[2633] I got exactly what it meant.

[2634] And I didn't want to hurt your feelings.

[2635] No, you're just like kind of gobsmacked.

[2636] Like, what is he doing?

[2637] Yeah, it was very natural.

[2638] I don't think you could have chosen to have a different look on your face.

[2639] That just came out.

[2640] I think I was really, really, my face was like, okay, let him finish.

[2641] Let him, like, it was just like, let him finish.

[2642] And then I'll ask her again.

[2643] That sounds like waiting Let him finish All right well This was fun Yes I had a last words Any parting words Any?

[2644] That's just really nice to be here Oh can I see Oh Oh I like that there's a strip of red in it I was a little nervous It was just going to be like a square blob I got my first tattoo and it's a floppy disk on my league It's really cool And it's a ding ding ding to Elijah Wood Thank you, Elijah Wood's episode, because he got all these tattoos at the same festival.

[2645] Yeah, we both went to Fantastic Fest and a ride of passage at that film festival is to get a little tattoo together.

[2646] What do you think of how tan David's legs are?

[2647] Very nice, right?

[2648] Does he wear shorts?

[2649] Oh, no, so there's a problem because I walk around a lot in shorts, very tanned, maybe slightly tan legs.

[2650] But I put on jandles, which I think you call sandals in America, flip -flops.

[2651] And my feet are just ghostly white because I'm, always wearing socks and shoes.

[2652] And so now I can't walk around the feet because it looks horrific.

[2653] I'm similarly insecure about my upper thighs.

[2654] You are, yeah.

[2655] Okay, I love you.

[2656] Love you.

[2657] Therapy starts in two minutes.

[2658] Okay.

[2659] Okay.

[2660] Okay.

[2661] Love it.

[2662] Follow armchair expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcast.

[2663] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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