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Conan Talks About Norm Macdonald

Conan Talks About Norm Macdonald

Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend XX

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Full Transcription:

[0] Hey there, and welcome to an unusual episode of Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.

[1] This episode is being done very spur of the moment, and it's happening because, as everybody knows now, Norm McDonald died two days ago, and I got the news, like everyone else, just absolutely stunned, had no idea that Norm had not only been very ill, but been very ill for a very long time.

[2] None of us had any idea.

[3] And there's been this seismic reaction, which is appropriate, completely appropriate, in the comedy world.

[4] And a lot's been said about Norm.

[5] And I just had this very strong feeling yesterday.

[6] that I needed to talk to people about it and talk to people who, like me, experience Norm in the moment and really try and understand what it was about this man, this very improbable, unusual man. What made him so different?

[7] And I maintain that we are accustomed, sadly to losing funny, talented people all the time, and we grow accustomed to it.

[8] I think Norm's impact is only going to grow.

[9] And I think his significance in comedy is only going to expand over time because he was such, such an incredible talent.

[10] And trying to describe, what made Norm different is so difficult.

[11] And I think so far when I've, I think I've read everything that's out there.

[12] And I'm hearing, you know, to be fair, people were all taken by surprise.

[13] You're just hearing he was an original and there was no one like Norm.

[14] And I keep thinking, no, no one's getting to it.

[15] And I just wanted to take a stab today to try and understand what exactly it was about this guy that was so, so brilliantly unusual and is going to be so lasting and his work is so important.

[16] So what I've done is I've asked two people who were sort of in the engine room with me when over the years Norm made his appearances on the show.

[17] I'm sitting with Andy Richter, who was right there for me. I was there.

[18] You were there.

[19] You were there for it.

[20] So I wanted you here because you are a really astute observer of comedic style, and you were right there for all of these amazing appearances that Norm made on our show.

[21] and I also asked my longtime friend and longtime producer since really the beginning in 1993 Frank Smiley to be here Hey Frank And Frank Frank Frank produced every single one of Norm's segments and so if anyone can help me understand what it was about this guy I thought it would be Frank so I got Frank Smiley here, I got Andy Richter here, and we're just going to talk about the norm of it all here.

[22] Well, Frank got to talk to him.

[23] You know, he'd come on, and I think a lot of, a lot of what you're seeing, like, commemorating norm was clips from our show, which we were blessed to have those.

[24] But for every one of those segments, Frank talked to him for an hour.

[25] You and I got him for eight minutes or whatever, you know, so.

[26] I thought, yeah, I mean, first of all, I wanted to, before I even begin, I want to give a quick shout out to two people who, in my opinion, are the unsung heroes of the Norm MacDonald story, two people that meant a lot to Norm, and were really there for him in pivotal moments.

[27] You know, one is Jim Downey, who, you know, for my money, the best, pound for pound, the best comedy mind that I've ever encountered, headwriter at Sound Out Live for many years, wrote for David Letterman, just an absolutely brilliant man. I worked for him at Sound Out Live, and he was the one that really worked with Norm on Update and for that just incredibly classic period.

[28] of Weekend Update at Sown it Live.

[29] So a shout out to Jim Downey, and I'm thinking about him because Norm so loved him and admired him.

[30] And a shout out to a very special person, Lori Jo Hoxtra, who was Norm's, you know, right -hand partner in crime.

[31] And she, I did have a chance to speak to her since this all happened.

[32] and she's just such a lovely person and I'm thinking of her because she just did so much for Norm over the years and Norm was so lucky to have her.

[33] So I just wanted to address those two people who I think deserve our love and thoughts right now.

[34] Frank, do me a favor because I was trying to, I recall the first time I encountered Norm was when he did stand up on our late night show really early on, do you remember how that happened?

[35] Yes, I do.

[36] It was a month after we started, it was October of 93, and a guest dropped out as it would happen back then.

[37] Oh, yeah, people were back in October of 93, we had been on the air a month.

[38] Believe it or not, it wasn't going well, ladies and gentlemen.

[39] No one thought we would last 28 minutes, let alone in 28 years, but...

[40] They were dropping, like, for us.

[41] Oh, but guests were dropping out at the last second constantly.

[42] And so someone dropped out and would you do?

[43] So I had worked with Norm a year earlier on the Dennis Miller show, which didn't last very long.

[44] But he, you know, was the funny, anybody who had met him even for a minute knew he was the funniest guy in the world.

[45] Sorry, Conan.

[46] But, you know, he is just a force.

[47] Dennis Miller you're talking about now.

[48] You're not making it clear.

[49] You said he worked on the Dennis Miller show.

[50] I thought it was understood.

[51] Good.

[52] I thought it was understood.

[53] I thought you were talking about Dennis.

[54] I like Dennis, but come on.

[55] Dennis is funny, too.

[56] Hang there, Chachan.

[57] He's a...

[58] So you knew that you knew him as a writer.

[59] And I knew he had just worked.

[60] He got a job as a writer on Saturday Night Live.

[61] So in a pinch, I went, you know, I went up there.

[62] I thought he would do it.

[63] And I knew, you know, usually you work with a stand -up to hone a set.

[64] But with Norm, I didn't need to...

[65] I wasn't worried at all.

[66] I knew that afternoon he would come on the air and kill.

[67] And he did.

[68] He annihilated and he did.

[69] a bit about buying a dog, which was so funny.

[70] And that was the first time he did our show, and that was 28 years ago.

[71] Right.

[72] And then he came on many times after that, and I've been thinking about, what is it that made this guy so insanely different from everyone else?

[73] And I had this recollection that Andy, said something once, which was, and I always remembered it, it was after a Norm segment, and Norm had annihilated, he had done really well, as he always did, and you said to me, that guy doesn't care in a way that frightens me. And what you meant was he had this seeming indifference about whether the crowd liked it or not.

[74] he was going to do what he was going to do.

[75] And he was so balzy that you found it kind of scary.

[76] And I knew exactly what you were talking about.

[77] It was always a high wire act.

[78] And one of the things I remember most about Norm is I would start laughing the minute he came out of the curtain.

[79] So I'd say, let's jump in Norm MacDonald.

[80] And he would come out and he had this look in his eye this glint in his eye and I was laughing before he said anything.

[81] And I will attest and you will back me up on this.

[82] Both of you can back me up on this.

[83] I always wanted to be a host who helped help the guest as much as I could.

[84] It's called host.

[85] Yeah.

[86] But what I would do is you know sometimes I'd be hearing something that wasn't that funny but I learned, you know, how to be a generous laugher for people if it would help.

[87] Right.

[88] I have always said to people, if you want to really see me laugh, and this is long before Norm passed, if you really want to see what it looks like when I am laughing, watch a Norm McDonald's segment because I have my hands on my belly, which I think might be my tell.

[89] Like I put my hands on my stomach and I would have my hands on my stomach sometimes just as Norm is coming out around the curtain and I see that crazy look in his eye and that insane grin that he had with those sort of like round apple cheeks.

[90] He was a mischievous kid.

[91] He was a mischievous kid and he was out to cause trouble and he's coming around the bend and his eye would catch me and he'd always look a little surprised to see me even though I had just introduced him.

[92] Of course.

[93] And you'd just seen him five minutes before.

[94] I had just seen him five minutes before.

[95] But oh my God and and I think there was this people get cynical about show business and rightfully they think well it's all set up or it's all been contrived and sometimes it has been but with that guy when you look at any of these clips you're watching us be just as stunned as the audience is because we don't know we don't know what's going to happen I think well one of the things to me like Norm was so Canadian.

[96] Like he was like deeply, deeply polite, deeply, deeply concerned with the person that he's talking to.

[97] An audience, not so much.

[98] But, but a person that he's talking to, because even like the famous clip of like, you know, that and now, and it's, you know, and it's arguably one of the biggest things circulating now about Lauren, or Lauren, about Norm is when he's, He was on with Courtney Thorne Smith and was making fun of carrot top.

[99] But he wasn't making fun of Courtney Thorne Smith.

[100] Right.

[101] He was having fun with her, but he still was kind of taking care of her in a way and having fun with you.

[102] Yeah.

[103] So he, I think he had this, like, sort of very, and I mean, I just, I showed, my sister texted me the day after he died.

[104] And she said, do you remember I was at the show?

[105] I was maybe 18 years old.

[106] And I was in your office.

[107] You weren't there.

[108] You were rehearsing or meeting or something.

[109] And Norm MacDonald walked in and I introduced myself and he sat down and talked to me for an hour and asked me questions about myself and, you know, and made me laugh a lot.

[110] And she said, nobody in your business has done that before or since.

[111] Right, right.

[112] And that was, that was one aspect of norm was like an incredibly kind, considerate listener.

[113] but then there's also this stripe of Norm that is a destroyer.

[114] And it is not, it's not a coincidence that when we talk about him, it's not, he annihilated.

[115] He killed.

[116] He destroyed.

[117] And what Norm, Norm was drawn to touch points that you're not supposed to touch.

[118] Yep.

[119] And Norm would not only touch them, he would dry hump them.

[120] You know, he would just, and so in a talk show context, you have this guy for whom nothing is sacred.

[121] And in fact, there's a little bit, like you don't sense aggression from him except when you get to like hypocrisy or something that's, you know, phoniness.

[122] Yeah.

[123] And he was also, you know, he was also too not afraid publicly or in private or something to let people that he felt were not funny who were being paid to be funny.

[124] Let them know he didn't think they were funny.

[125] Yeah.

[126] And that's because he had so much genius.

[127] He took it, he took it, I mean, yeah, he took it comedy very seriously.

[128] And one of the things that speaks to, you know, I was having a conversation with Jim Downey and in the wake of Norm's death and Jim Downey, and I was trying to get to the, what is it that made Norm's so different?

[129] And he reminded me, he said, you know, on weekend update, we would do, there's a dress rehearsal, which I know because I've worked at Sarnat Live.

[130] There's a dress rehearsal.

[131] And he said, the best way to test a joke on weekend update is at dress rehearsal.

[132] If it does well at dress rehearsal, it will do well on air.

[133] If it doesn't do well at dress rehearsal, it will bomb on air.

[134] That's the best way to test it.

[135] And he said that Norm would do a joke at dress rehearsal.

[136] that they both loved and it would get nothing.

[137] And when Weekend Update was over, Jim would say, yeah, it's too bad that joke didn't do well and Norm would say like, yeah, I know what we got to do it.

[138] So he would do jokes that he knew were going to get nothing.

[139] If he thought the joke was worthwhile, he didn't give a shit.

[140] Now, that is very uncommon.

[141] That is very...

[142] Well, he never pandered.

[143] He didn't pander at all.

[144] And that takes, you know, that's what made me think about the line you said so many years ago, Andy, like it almost terrifies me his fearlessness because it was the thing he did so many times on our show, which I thought was absolutely outrageous, was he would launch into these long stories that you later, you quickly realized, were far, or shaggy dog.

[145] Shaggy dog stories.

[146] Just absolute horseshit.

[147] Absolute horseshit.

[148] And he would go on and on and on.

[149] And I'm so happy that the moth joke has been getting circulated so much from our Tonight Show because it is completely outrageous what he's doing.

[150] It is, you know, it's the, it's the Tonight Show.

[151] and he is telling this very long story and he's taking all the time in the world and I love it just because even though I was there, I'm delighted every time I see it.

[152] Every time I see it, I'm delighted with it because what he's doing is breaks every rule.

[153] You're not, you're not, brevity is the soul of wit.

[154] That is the rule.

[155] Keep it, you know, and man, he completely, like Picasso blew up the form, he goes and he tells this joke forever and then finally gets to this punchline and you can see that he's, everyone's delighted, but he has broken every rule in the book and I was asking, I was talking to Lori Joe, and I asked her if it's okay if I related this and she said it was okay.

[156] But she said that not too long ago, someone asked Norm about the Moth story that he told on our Tonight Show and that she said, the guy wanted to know, what made you have the nerve to do that?

[157] And that he said that, you know, is that goddamn Frank Smiley?

[158] He said, I was only supposed to do one segment.

[159] And then suddenly, in the commercial break, Frank came over and said, like, you're doing another one because whenever I had norm, I was greedy.

[160] I wanted more norm.

[161] I always wanted more norm.

[162] And so he didn't know that he was, that we were going to ask him to do a second segment.

[163] He had nothing planned, absolutely nothing planned.

[164] So as recently, it's like, not that long ago, I think this was a couple of months ago.

[165] He was telling somebody, damn it, that was Frank Smiley, hey, get to.

[166] back out there.

[167] Conan Rocks Moore.

[168] So he heard that joke from Colin Quinn.

[169] Uh -huh.

[170] And he did the segment and it was seven, he had seven minutes prepared.

[171] Yeah.

[172] And so he basically, you say, you know, and then he's done.

[173] He's done.

[174] He's done.

[175] He's done.

[176] And he goes, I've got nothing to say.

[177] Yeah, yeah.

[178] So then he, uh, he remembered the Colin joke and it was a 20 -second joke.

[179] So he asked you, how long is the set?

[180] And he was hoping you'd say 20 seconds, but you said seven minutes.

[181] Yep, yep.

[182] So it became a seven minute show.

[183] Yeah, and he's doing that, this has to be understood, he's doing this on the fly.

[184] Yep.

[185] So his way to slow it down that he came up with on the fly is he invents...

[186] It's a checkoff play.

[187] It's a checkoff play.

[188] With Russian names.

[189] With Russian names.

[190] And there's a sadness, an ineffable sadness in life, weighing on the character's soul.

[191] And I'm thinking.

[192] you know, who I've never met anybody who would take that chance and make that choice and I'll never meet anybody like him again.

[193] He was the ballsyest comedian in the history of comedians.

[194] He was taking that and he was saying like the joke doesn't matter.

[195] Like that, you know, he would, watching that, seeing that clip again, you're getting to see his brain.

[196] He's just showing you his brain.

[197] and the notion that this is that the joke is the thing the joke isn't the thing no it's the journey it's taken a stroll through this guy's brain and hearing the choices that he makes and what he has to say and you know and i think that that was like kind of what like there was so much of like what he you know would say like well that doesn't matter this matters you know and what mattered to him was his own self -expression was his own was spreading his own kind of genius and his own point of view.

[198] Like, there's a clip out.

[199] He did some roast.

[200] And I remember seeing it at the time.

[201] I can't remember who it was that he was roasting.

[202] But all his jokes are things.

[203] It was Bob Sagget.

[204] Was it Bob Sagget?

[205] And it was unbelievable.

[206] It was, but all the jokes were things like, you know, Bob often has a lot of things on.

[207] You know, Bob often has things on his mind.

[208] It's when he's wearing a hat.

[209] Like it was all these dad jokes.

[210] Intentionally bombed.

[211] Right.

[212] And then I didn't even know this, but I remember feeling like, okay, Norm, I mean, you know, these are funny and this is, and you're funny, doing it because you can't help it be funny.

[213] But this is, feels a little hostile, you know, like, why are, why are you breaking from what this?

[214] You know, you were invited to a costume party and you came, you know, in a tuxia, you know, whatever.

[215] He didn't play by the rules of the thing.

[216] Turns out the producers told him, really go for it, really get him.

[217] And Norm was like, ah, yeah, you're going to tell me what to do.

[218] Here, I'll do this.

[219] I'll do the softest, lamest dad jokes I can come up with.

[220] Yeah.

[221] And it was just to fuck you to the producers.

[222] It looked weird at the time.

[223] It was funny in a way.

[224] But it still was just like, it was Norm doing what the fuck he wanted to do.

[225] It was still hilarious.

[226] Yeah.

[227] Yeah.

[228] Norm is, it's like Norm couldn't not be funny.

[229] Yeah.

[230] The other thing I wanted to talk about is his diction, his word choice.

[231] I've always he spoke like someone from the 1920s he would say he would talk about hobos and he would say as you know my wife battle axe you know he talked in this way that was from a different time I'm just an old lump of coal and you thought what is where is this coming from and it didn't feel contrived It was, you know, and I don't know if it came from coming from this province in Canada.

[232] Yeah, I think it does.

[233] I think it does.

[234] Because his, you know, people can make up that kind of language and use it.

[235] This really came from him, and he would make these choices.

[236] Like, I remember once soon he was talking about a dog, a Doberman.

[237] And he kept calling it a Doberman.

[238] That's right.

[239] And you were like, why is he calling a Doberman a Doberman, a Doberman?

[240] He was doing it on purpose.

[241] He would do little things that would catch your ear.

[242] And it's almost like poetry in a way.

[243] The way he would deliver and write his sets.

[244] Yeah, he had a real facility for the English language.

[245] Unbelievable.

[246] Really amazing constructions.

[247] It all felt very spontaneous.

[248] But as I spoke to Smigel, Robert Smigel, who was the original head writer on the late -night show.

[249] But more importantly, triumph the insult comic dog.

[250] He refers to himself as triumph, the insult.

[251] That's what it says on his, when he gets pulled over for speeding, it says on his driver's license.

[252] Insult, comic dog, comma, triumph, weight, eight inches.

[253] But he said, he saw him perform somewhere, and I can't, I don't know where.

[254] But he said, Norm went on a run, and it was hilarious.

[255] And he went up to Norm and said, that was amazing, that run you went on in the moment.

[256] And he said, that wasn't in the moment.

[257] that was completely craftwrecked.

[258] Every single word of it was written out.

[259] I'll tell you something else too, which...

[260] He was a craftsman.

[261] Yeah, he was a craftsman.

[262] The other thing he did, which was completely fearless is if you look at that, him on the Espies, you know, you've seen that footage of him on the Espies.

[263] And, you know, people were so angry at the time because he's going after these athletes.

[264] And there was this sense of like, you can't do this.

[265] and he took so much shit for that and then you look at it now that's what the SPs has become you know the SPs now is like a lot of people doing jokes about a roast a roast yeah but it became more that way he just did that first and at the time people were really upset and at the time you know you feel like there's a lot of in comedy people getting applause for being brave in one way or another.

[266] But oftentimes what they're doing, they know is going to play well.

[267] You know what I mean?

[268] But when he's doing it, he was doing things that really were brave and he paid the price for it.

[269] He took a lot of heat when he went out.

[270] He took a lot of, I mean, it cost him his job at Sarnat Live.

[271] Yeah.

[272] And he was, one of his bosses was, friends with a murderer and he and so norm was going to alleged okay norm norm norm was this is a lot this is a show that follows the rule of law all right allege you can just plug in alleged we can edit that i've seen no proof and yeah but he was so and the word i get i mean i'm assuming that it came down hey lay off the oj stuff because norm would do at the time like five oj jokes in a row and to norm sensibility, somebody saying, hey, the big boss wants you to stop making jokes about that murderer, Norm is like, no. Like, of anything that you should not back off of, it's making jokes about a murderer.

[273] You know what?

[274] That must have been tough for you at that time.

[275] Well, I remember, and I have it somewhere, either I have it or Jeff Ross has it, but we got the word came down.

[276] You can't book Norm McDonald anymore.

[277] and it came from the top and from Don O 'Meyer.

[278] And, you know, Don O 'Meyer was the one that, you know, Lorne suggested me for late night.

[279] He gave me the job.

[280] And so I had a lot of, you know, feelings of loyalty to Don O 'Meyer because I wouldn't be here right now if it weren't for Don sticking with me. So I owe him that.

[281] So I wrote a letter to Don that says, said, you know, I got this directive, you've hired me to do the best show I can do, and this is my best guest.

[282] And so I need to do my job, which is the best show I can do.

[283] And I got the letter back and written in the margins, was just something, I don't remember the exact, but it was something like I'm, you know, I would expect, I expected better from you or something like that.

[284] It was basically me being told.

[285] Do as you're told.

[286] Yeah, but, or I'm really disappointed in your lack of loyalty or something.

[287] And I felt at the time, that's not, no, that's not a lack of loyalty.

[288] That is loyalty.

[289] I've got to, you know.

[290] So it was, you know, I always greedily wanted more norm.

[291] And, you know, I was upset, you know, this is in a purely selfish way, but the number one fan request, I think this podcast now is only three years old, the number one request for a guest, by far ahead of everyone, Norm McDonald.

[292] Yeah.

[293] And we tried for a long time to get Norm to come on the podcast and couldn't get him to come on.

[294] and I, you know, started to get into my head about it and think, well, is something wrong?

[295] Is he upset with us?

[296] And it's only now that I'm realizing that he was ill. It was hard to book him on the show, you know?

[297] It became - Paula Davis has said that, you know, we try constantly and he just wasn't doing anything.

[298] Yeah, we were all scratching our heads.

[299] We were all wondering where he is.

[300] And I know that fans were thinking, well, you know, where is he?

[301] and we were as confused as anybody.

[302] And of course now, sadly, you know, we know how much difficulty he was having.

[303] Yeah.

[304] And how long he's been sick and how very sick he was.

[305] But yeah, I go back to, again, like I'm like a dog with a bone trying to figure out he's very, you know, I'm just going to tell Frank is new to this, so he keeps shuffling papers right up against a microphone.

[306] There you go.

[307] That's okay, Frank.

[308] He wants it to make sure people know.

[309] Frank, you can have it right here on the table.

[310] Yeah, sure.

[311] He wants some people to know we're reading from a script.

[312] He's got all these notes.

[313] Norm equals funny.

[314] Like, that's not going to help you.

[315] I remember, you know, I gave this shout out to Jim Downey earlier.

[316] Jim Downey and Norm were such a good team because because they both have a very high bar for comedy and a really good ear.

[317] And I think Norm was the perfect vehicle for Jim's humor and vice versa.

[318] They just had a really copacetic relationship.

[319] But one of my favorite Norm jokes of all time was an OJ joke.

[320] And the picture comes up and it's that picture of Johnny Cochran at the trial and OJ is seated next to him and Johnny Cochran's holding up the knit cap that was found at the scene.

[321] And forgive my best.

[322] bad normal impression, but it was kind of like something along the lines of, you know, rough, difficult time today in the O .J. Simpson trial.

[323] Johnny Cochran introduced the knit hat that was found at the scene of the murders, and he held it aloft and showed the jury the hat that had been found.

[324] Things got off the rails a little bit when O .J. Simpson interrupted him and said, hey, hey, careful with that.

[325] That's my lucky stabbing cap.

[326] And I remember that joke came through the TV and slapped me in the face.

[327] It was so good.

[328] Yeah, yeah.

[329] And I love the whole light, and of course you know, Norm, what he would do is and I never saw him do it.

[330] He would tell the joke and then he would stare you down through the television.

[331] Yeah.

[332] Like, try that on for us.

[333] eyes.

[334] Something no one else could get away.

[335] Yeah.

[336] You would look like such an asshole.

[337] If anybody else did that.

[338] But, you know, that's my lucky stabbing cap.

[339] Yeah.

[340] And then you can just see his eyes on fire and that grin.

[341] And he's going to hold it there.

[342] And he knows he's going to lose his job.

[343] Yeah.

[344] He's going to lose his job over this.

[345] Funniest guy to ever be on that show.

[346] And, you know, and he's going to lose his job.

[347] he he you know like I said he had a very destructive streak he publicly stated he lost his his entire fortune twice gambling you know and and so he would find things like this and it wasn't like to just destroy his own job but it was like to destroy the hypocrisy of you know and you know he also was really drawn to touchy subjects so it's like a brutal murder yeah he you know he had pleasure in in being dangerous.

[348] Yeah, how many, how many anal -rate jokes did we hear?

[349] You know, how many, you know.

[350] Including, I must bring it up, the Swedish German.

[351] That became a, yeah.

[352] Andy Rick for the Swedish German.

[353] That became a thing.

[354] Yeah, and actually, Conan and I were talking about this yesterday.

[355] I had forgotten about this.

[356] And, of course, you said that you sometimes see it online.

[357] Yeah.

[358] I'm like, okay, well, let's hear about that because, you know, me, I'm in the nose cone of the rocket.

[359] Right, right.

[360] I'm at the top of the pyramid.

[361] Right, right.

[362] You're ivory tower.

[363] There's a lot of clouds underneath your window.

[364] I'm up there counting my gold points.

[365] I can't be concerned with what you're doing down in the moat.

[366] No, people, I mean, every weekly someone will just, and arbitrarily just call me a Swedish German.

[367] And it was, you know, explain how that, what that means.

[368] I know, well, I mean, I know they're Norm fans because Norm would do, and Norm was also like kind of a traditionalist.

[369] So he did the, you know, talk to the talk show host, but then there's this guy over here, this one.

[370] Let's make fun of him.

[371] Yeah, yeah.

[372] And a lot of his jokes, he, like I say, he was drawn to the things that you're not supposed to say.

[373] So a lot of his jokes were about being queer, gay porno, this fellow over here, he enjoys the gay porno.

[374] And that became a thing with me. And at one point, he was talking about your ethnicity.

[375] you're Irish, I'm Scottish, what are you?

[376] And I said, uh, Swedish German.

[377] And for some reason, it was like, really?

[378] And I was like, yeah, well, why would I make that up?

[379] But that then later became a euphemism for gay.

[380] You know, the old prospector comes to town and wants a prostitute, but no, there's no prostitutes.

[381] There's just Andy Richter, the Swedish German.

[382] It's outrageous because it's norm.

[383] It's outrageous because it's on a talk show.

[384] And it's, but like, and it's.

[385] me but like and i think that some people think that like i was somehow and well and somebody else a friend of mine pointed out there's nothing you can't do anything with that right like you there's nothing to do with that when when norm macdonald says this fell over like any you know and it would go to like hey korn have you met his wife but then you did say at least i had my dignity and says you were rape yeah he goes to rape you know yeah yeah oh my god and i said but i never was that crazy about that because I would think, you know, I'm sitting there and we're in a studio and we're laughing about it now.

[386] And it is like the point of that joke is this fellow's a queer.

[387] Yeah.

[388] And it's a very, very old fashioned retrograde joke that we just don't do anymore.

[389] Right.

[390] And some jokes that we don't do anymore, we don't do them anymore because they shouldn't be done.

[391] Right.

[392] And we shouldn't have been doing them in the first place.

[393] So I was always thinking about the gay people that work on the Conan O 'Brien show.

[394] How do I look them in the face after being there and hearty harring about the punchline being that I'm a gay fella?

[395] And we're thinking about the people in my family who are gay.

[396] Like if they're going to watch that, how are they going to think when the real bottom line, what's funny about that is that I was supposedly a homosexual and that I was, which to me I always was like, it's like saying like this fellow over here, he's a, he doesn't want anybody to know it, but he's a secret Jew.

[397] His, his kitchen's full of matzas, you know, it's like, you would go, like, what are you talking about?

[398] You know, what is that, how is that funny?

[399] My kitchen's full of monses.

[400] I know, but you're, you're not a secret.

[401] But, but you know what I mean?

[402] I just, it always, it made me uncomfortable, not because I was afraid that people would think I was gay, because if I was gay, everybody would know that I was gay.

[403] It made me uncomfortable because there were people out there in the audience, in the audience whom I love and care about, who would be left thinking, like, what's so terrible about me that I am a joke, that I'm a punchline, you know, that how I am and who I am is a punchline to a joke.

[404] But that was when you're the kind of comic that Norm is and you're going after any uncomfortable subject and you're like, oh, let me get in there and, you know, roam around and really get my elbows.

[405] Right, right.

[406] You know, it's, you're going to.

[407] it's going to be ugly sometimes.

[408] Yeah, and I...

[409] It's going to be uncomfortable.

[410] Yes, and I remember he did...

[411] I mean, I think it was one of his later appearances on our show.

[412] You know, he went after Oscar Pistorius, you know, who's...

[413] Yeah, the Blade Runner.

[414] Yeah, convicted of murder.

[415] And he was the one who famously had, you know, blades, you know.

[416] He was born, I guess, without legs and had blades instead.

[417] And was this great...

[418] Olympic athlete and he went after him and his joke was something along the lines of I have no problem with him as a murderer.

[419] Yeah, I don't have a problem with the murder.

[420] But the murder, it's you should use your real legs if you're going to be and it's an ins, you think about it, everything about that joke is completely wrong and especially in this era that we're in, you know, completely unacceptable but it was Norm and Norm would dig into it with this, and I'm, look, I, I know the guy to be extremely sensitive and to be very kind.

[421] Like almost too sensitive in many ways.

[422] Yeah, and very, and, and yet he wasn't having any of, if, if this, uh, well, you got to be careful here, you know, or, you know, that joke, that could really hurt people's feelings.

[423] Yeah.

[424] That could, he, I think, made some kind of deal with himself early on that across the board, he was not going to care about that.

[425] Nobody's going to tell me what to say.

[426] Yeah, no one's going to tell me what to say.

[427] And I think, you know, his line was one of the basic requirements of being a sprinter is you have to have legs.

[428] Right.

[429] Remember he had a, he had a joke I loved early on about kickboxing.

[430] It's like, remember he said kickboxing combines all the grace and finesse of boxing with kicking I just was like he had this you know the way he would just punch it and reduce it to its absolute you know most absurd you know yeah and you could picture like kicking just what sounds lamer than a guy kicking somebody yeah well even I mean there was a lot of like he luxuriated in his own normness and that And that's like why there were all those long, long, long jokes.

[431] It was just him, like there's, it's aggressive.

[432] It's an aggressive thing to waste that much TV time because I think he's thinking, ah, TV time is precious.

[433] Oh, let me show you.

[434] It's not that precious.

[435] Look, what I'm going to do.

[436] I'm going to tell a six -minute joke about whatever.

[437] We went along for every second of it.

[438] Oh, I know.

[439] And he made it, he made a long joke of work of art. Yeah, yeah.

[440] An old joke that wasn't his.

[441] Yes.

[442] What, you know, the, damn it, he did this bit for us that he insisted on doing.

[443] Sully Sullenberger?

[444] Yes.

[445] He did a bit where he, you know, he came out and he's like, yeah, Conan and I've made a movie.

[446] And I'm like, oh, really, you've made a movie.

[447] And, yeah, I funded it myself.

[448] And I, of course, and it was about Sully Sullenberger who landed.

[449] Sully Sullenberger biography.

[450] Yeah, biography about the pilot who landed the plane.

[451] and he, I think, maintained that he did this, he had this idea before Tom Hanks, so he's a little indignant.

[452] Well, it was actually, we showed it before Hank's ever made the movie.

[453] Oh, is that true?

[454] Okay, all right.

[455] It was 2009.

[456] It was right after Sully Sullenberger heroically landed on the Hudson.

[457] And so he shot this thing and he got to our show early and, of course, it looks like shit because we just had a...

[458] It's fast, yeah.

[459] With the barest cockpit set.

[460] And he insisted on using the woman who did his makeup.

[461] Deborah.

[462] Paulman, he insisted on using her in the bit, even though it's not even clear why he needed her in the bit.

[463] His wife, played his wife.

[464] Yeah, played his wife.

[465] And this, to this day, I don't know what that sketched.

[466] Well, it was a dry bit.

[467] It was a very dry sketch.

[468] It was one of the driest things I've ever seen.

[469] So the idea is that Sully Sullen heroically landed on the Hudson, like, around that time.

[470] He made this movie about Sully Sullenberger, but six months it's been in the can.

[471] So he was looking for an ending.

[472] and this guy lands.

[473] So basically, no, the joke is he made a movie about Sully Sullenberger before he heroically landed the plane on the So the clip is him landing on the tarmac.

[474] That's it.

[475] Successfully.

[476] He successfully lands the plane and says thanks for flying American Airlines.

[477] Have a good day.

[478] So the joke is that amazingly a director decides to make a movie about a random pilot Sully Sullenberger and makes it about a successful landing before the most dramatic landing in the history of aviation.

[479] And he showed this thing.

[480] I think he had a fake mustache on.

[481] Yes, he did.

[482] But he's barely, and this is another thing I love about him, he didn't care at all about the craft of acting.

[483] And I'll watch, I mean, recently I watched dirty work that was on TV.

[484] He would say, I'm not an actor, You know, he would always say that, like, I don't act, I don't know.

[485] I'm not going to, I'm not an actor, that's not what I do.

[486] So he had no interest in that.

[487] So even in the sketch, he's not even pretending to be in a sketch.

[488] Yes, he's not.

[489] But he was great.

[490] You know, that's the other thing.

[491] Like, if you look at his SNL appearances, his work on SNL, his letterman was great.

[492] Yep.

[493] Bert Reynolds.

[494] Bert Reynolds was great.

[495] Yeah, yeah.

[496] He was fantastic.

[497] Oh, yeah.

[498] He's been those guy.

[499] Bob Dole.

[500] He's being those guys, but he's also never not being norm.

[501] You know what I?

[502] Like he's always norm.

[503] It's always Norm doing that.

[504] But the Letterman impression was bizarre.

[505] Yeah, yeah.

[506] Yeah, that gets me to something that I think, you know, has to be understood about norm, is that he was always norm.

[507] So there are people that I go and I see them in the dressing room before the show and chat with them a little bit.

[508] And they're kind of revving up to be the person they're going to be on the show.

[509] Norm was that guy all the time, and using those old weird euphemisms and using, you know, that strange language and that cadence, that way of talking, and he was always that guy.

[510] And then after the show, you'd go to tell him that was really great.

[511] Oh, yeah, and then it worked out, you know, what do you think I'm some kind of hobo, you know, just like he's doing that backstage beforehand afterwards, I think, in every incarnation.

[512] Now, he said from the beginning of, in 93, when he did stand up, he would call the TV, the TV.

[513] The TV.

[514] Who else do you know who says the TV?

[515] Oh, I know who you're talking about, Bob Dylan.

[516] Right.

[517] Because I got to meet Bob Dylan once, and I was backstage with our guitarist, Jim Vivino, at a Bob Dylan show, and suddenly I got literally, like, pushed into a room where there was some, you know, heavy -hitting people in there.

[518] I did not consider myself nor do I still one of those but I got pushed in and I got kind of shoved to the front of this line and there's Bob Dylan and he looked right at me and he went I know you from the TV and I remember that in my head like he calls the television the TV with the emphasis on T and then Norm all these years used to say it's the TV now Norm is a giant Dylan fan I didn't know that enormous Dylan fan and sometimes in his material I feel like there's I think that's just Minnesota and Canada Bob Dylan's from Minnesota so you're hearing a guy from Minnesota and you're hearing a guy from Canada and you're hearing just a North American Northern North American the TV you know right because that's that Canadian guy also says like I'm not a hobo you know I mean those are all old crusty white white manisms, you know, very Canadian, very upper northern, you know, U .S. Well, here's an interesting fact.

[519] And I don't think anybody, I don't think it's been out there publicly, but Dylan was a fan of norms and invited him to his house.

[520] Oh, wow.

[521] And Norm was at Dylan's Malibu house for like two days.

[522] Wow.

[523] Slept there.

[524] Wow.

[525] And, uh...

[526] You weren't coffee?

[527] Yeah.

[528] What do you want to watch on the TV?

[529] Who wants waffles?

[530] What do you want to watch on the TV?

[531] Let's both watch the TV.

[532] Finally, I found someone who says it right.

[533] You want to play volleyball?

[534] But he told me about this.

[535] And it was an interesting experience, but he never talked about it publicly, which shows you, first of all, what a thrill that must have been for this guy who grew up at Dylan, but he never, he talked about almost everything, you know, asked Bob Yucer.

[536] Yeah.

[537] He didn't keep much secret, but he never really talked about Dylan.

[538] And it just shows you how much he did.

[539] Right, he didn't trade off of it.

[540] Yeah, yeah.

[541] Any other comedian could have turned that into like a whole special, you know.

[542] But, yeah, you dirty dog.

[543] He called people with, yeah, dad, you dirty dog, yeah.

[544] Like, what, you know, what is that?

[545] Who talks that way?

[546] It's just unbelievable.

[547] Yeah, a guy, yeah, a guy from Canada.

[548] That's what I think there's this.

[549] But from another century.

[550] Yes.

[551] There's this tension.

[552] But he saw the value in speaking like that for comedy.

[553] Yes.

[554] It wasn't just the way he speaks.

[555] It was he used it.

[556] Yes.

[557] But there was a tension in him of being that guy and being from that guy, but I think also rejecting that guy.

[558] And not really, like, he didn't stay in Canada.

[559] You know, he left Canada.

[560] And so he, I think he kind of.

[561] had that, you know, play by the rules, don't ruffle any feathers, don't make the neighbors talk about you base, and then became this guy that, like, did not give a shit what the neighbors said about you, you know?

[562] And I think that that tension in there is like, you know, like I said, the guy, he said, you know, there's a, there's a lot of tearing down.

[563] You know, that's kind of what he did.

[564] And it's, there's a price to be paid for that.

[565] Yeah.

[566] Well, that's, But he's the best at it.

[567] I have to say, I have, you know, I've had this gnawing regret this last day and a half.

[568] And it's reading all this praise for Norm, which again, I believe is completely justified and will endure.

[569] And it's been a regret that he had, he didn't get to experience.

[570] this you know he took so much flack in his career he took so much shit um and yes he knew that he had fans but uh i wish you know it's a common wish for people but i wish he had been able to read the stuff that's being written about him i wish he knew how beloved he is and also um how in awe comedians are of what he did and what he meant and how you know how important he was to the people who are probably the most important people in the world to him yeah you know and he you know I wish I wish he knew that and that's the one regret I I you know he kept he kept his illness a complete secret from everybody.

[571] Everybody.

[572] And that was his choice, and I respect that choice.

[573] But selfishly for me, I wish I had had the chance, and I wish, a lot of us wish we had the chance to go in and tell him.

[574] Yeah.

[575] You were a singular artist, and you've really made a huge difference, and you've, I mean, if nothing else, I don't, I don't know of anybody that could make me laugh like that.

[576] Yeah.

[577] Me too.

[578] I don't think there's anybody that I've ever met that made me laugh.

[579] Yeah, just, and made me laugh with abandon.

[580] Yeah, yeah.

[581] Like a child.

[582] I'm just, I would, I would lose control.

[583] It was, what he was doing was so, so insane and, you know, and.

[584] Well, he was effortlessly funny.

[585] He just, almost everything he did was it's all about the brain it's like he just had a brain unlike any other brain and that's you know so much of what the people that you love the comedians that you love you're loving this brain this unique brain that that that takes the input and the output is unlike any other out but you know the one thing i would say is it's the brain and the talent but then um you know i i reserve my highest praise for people with standard And that guy had rules.

[586] He had rules about there's kinds of comedy that work and get you applause.

[587] And there's kind of kinds of comedy that are very risky and often don't work.

[588] And that's the stuff that he reveled in and was willing to go through go through the experience of hearing no laughs just because he knew on some level he was right and would be redeemed in the end and now people are looking at all these clips and they're looking at these clips of him on the SB's going after these athletes and saying this is absolutely hilarious you were telling me you texted me yesterday that you were watching or two days ago that you were watching yourself listening to norm yeah in the segments and laughing as though you would have never heard them.

[589] Because I, you know, he was on so many times and I forgot some of these things.

[590] And I remembered the moth, but I don't, it's not like, I don't, yeah, I don't, yeah.

[591] And also I don't go back and I don't look at myself.

[592] I'm not, I'm not, that's not my idea of a good time is to go look at clips of myself.

[593] I thought we were going to be honest in this.

[594] You beat me to that.

[595] Look, come on.

[596] Your phone is silently playing old clips and we're doing this.

[597] Look at that jawline.

[598] That hair is immaculate.

[599] Wow, I really have Fran Dresher laughing hard in 95.

[600] No, I, so I was looking, you know, like everyone else, people were sending me these clips.

[601] And I was watching them, and I was laughing as, hard watching them now as I was in the studio and, um, you know, what a gift to, uh, it's just this nice gift that will keep giving.

[602] Yeah.

[603] You know, when it's my time to go, someone can, can, uh, string together a couple of Norm McDonald's appearances and, uh, give me a really strong shot of morphine and I can watch those.

[604] Yeah, yeah.

[605] Just go out laughing.

[606] That would be nice.

[607] I read something, And because, you know, I spent the day, whatever day that was, was it Wednesday?

[608] Yeah, Wednesday.

[609] You know, looking at, like so many of us did, looking at clips and reading stuff.

[610] And I read an article that was, that's pretty recent.

[611] It was an interview with maybe Vulture, you know, New York Magazine or something.

[612] But there was something in it that speaks very much to this, what you're saying.

[613] Like, it would have been nice if he could have heard all this stuff.

[614] He was talking about the person was.

[615] talking to him and there had been some kind of special stand -up event that Chris Rock was did and Dave Chappelle did and those guys at the time had not you know they hadn't been in circulation very much and Norm had decided not to do it and I may be getting it a little wrong but he said well you know I would have done it and I would have gone out there and I would have destroyed but nobody would have given a shit like no one would have talked about me destroying out there which is probably true.

[616] Like in terms of like if you saw an article about that particular event, they probably would have been, and Norm MacDonald was there, you know?

[617] And it's just so, like I say, it broke my heart that he was opting out of things because he felt that it was, like, there wasn't just the joy in doing it, it was like, what's it going to matter?

[618] Like there was just this kind of, and who knows what was playing into that?

[619] kind of attitude, but I wish he could have heard all this stuff too.

[620] I did say, I said to, I said to Lori Joe, today I said, on the flip side, because I brought this up and I said on the flip side, if Norm, if in a magical world, Norm had been presented with all of this incredible praise, he would have found a way to deflected, uh, ridicule.

[621] Probably would have made his skin crawl.

[622] Yeah, exactly.

[623] And so, um, and so, you know, He wouldn't have, this, this, this might have been the way he wanted it, you know, but, you know, I, I wanted to have this, this is, this is the most selfish episode I've ever done of this podcast, which is pretty selfish.

[624] My podcast is very selfish in that I really do just talk to people I really want to talk to and I have a lot of fun.

[625] And then, um, they shove some mattress commercials into it and throw it out there.

[626] And I, um, um, um, And I love doing it.

[627] I really love doing it.

[628] But this was just sort of my attempt on the fly to say, I've got to talk about norm with people who really knew norm or were there with me when I experienced the norm of it all and try and understand what it was.

[629] And I think we've said a lot.

[630] But I'm, you know, but I still feel like.

[631] You know.

[632] Well, I also went down that rabbit hole of watching clips.

[633] And there's so many amazing moments that are favorites of people.

[634] But I don't know if you guys have favorites, but this is, I found one that was crazy.

[635] I forgot about, which was a long joke about a drunk who was playing darts with Norm.

[636] And Norm said, if he got a bullseye, he'd give him a prize.

[637] And the drunk got a bullseye.

[638] So Norm gave him a turtle and a shoebox that he was going to give to his nephew.

[639] And the drunk and Norm are playing darts.

[640] a week later, and the drunk gets another bullseye and wants another prize.

[641] And Norm said, what did you win last time?

[642] And he says, I want a roast beef on a hard roll.

[643] I won a roast beef on a hard roll.

[644] Yeah, I could see, you know, it's so funny because...

[645] That was about five times as long as I just told me. Yeah, no, no, you gave, you gave, no. He'd go into...

[646] Now, I said to this fella, I say to them, You look like an interesting kind of man. You look like a man who's been around and seen some things.

[647] What if you and I were to maybe throw a few darts around?

[648] First, he throws a three.

[649] Yeah.

[650] And I says, and I says, I says, I says, I says, that is him.

[651] And I says to him, and I say to him, and I say, you seem like a man who might use a, you know, just, I love when he would come out.

[652] I would start laughing at it.

[653] But what's up, Norm?

[654] Well, Conan, I got myself a farm.

[655] And I think, no, you fucking didn't, you know, but everyone in the world is trying to figure out what's the funny story I can tell.

[656] And he would have the, I've been at a farm, you see, and I live there with my, my three daughters.

[657] One, of course, very beautiful, one less so, and of course one very unfortunate.

[658] And one day a salesman comes on down the road, he does, and I'm thinking, And I'm laughing at, I'm laughing when I just say, what are you up to?

[659] And he says, well, I got myself a farm, I'm gone.

[660] No, you didn't.

[661] Let me tell you an 80 -year -old joke.

[662] Let me tell you a joke that Lincoln told.

[663] And then he'll spring up some character, Jacques did you do to, you know, some crazy, made -up character.

[664] But, you know, I do know that I really like, because on one of the episodes, It's really funny, we're loving it, and he finishes the story, and it ends with this terrible pun, the porpoise pun.

[665] Remember that?

[666] I think I'm still, it's about, it's this long story that ends with a pun instead of, I'm serving a useful purpose.

[667] He says, I'm serving a youthful porpoise.

[668] And it's this long joke that gets to just that pun.

[669] And I'm loving it.

[670] We're both loving it, also we can't believe this is where the story has gone, is to this pun.

[671] So he springs the trap and the crowd starts to applaud and I start to sell the crowd, no, you can't applaud.

[672] What he's just done right now is criminal.

[673] He's taken time from all of us.

[674] Yeah, he is criminal.

[675] He can't be allowed to get away with this.

[676] And then, Andy, you say, what you just did, Norm is you stopped us on the street, took us for a two mile walk.

[677] in the woods to show us a turd and Norm is laughing so hard I think he gets down on his knees and is like clapping and I realize that the ultimate joy of this man to me is he is a mischievous kid at heart there's all this intellect and there's all of this integrity and there's all the things that we've talked about word choice and his way of being able to and I do believe like a modernist, you know, painter completely blow up the form and take it inside out.

[678] I think all those things are true, but at the core, there is a mischievous child who knows that he's going to sit in the update desk at SNL and he's going to stare right in the camera and tell a joke that he knows for a fact is going to get nothing and will enrage the president of NBC and cost him his job.

[679] And he is like a kid in a candy store.

[680] And to me, that's, I mean, God bless.

[681] He's a lot of fun to watch.

[682] And I think he also really enjoyed being around other comedians.

[683] Like, that's where he seemed to really come a lot.

[684] I mean, he was a stand -up, but he also really liked being on in a, in a, you know, a situation with other comedians.

[685] And I've had people say to me, like, did it bother you?

[686] Because, you know, like I said, I would be the butt of the joke sometime.

[687] And I would say, like, no, that's, that's him, that's, like, practically like, him showing love to me. Yeah.

[688] Like, he would not insult me if he thought that I, you know, was somehow inferior.

[689] Well, I think it's like being insulted by Rickles.

[690] It's like he, he, I'm, he's inviting me to play when he's making fun of it.

[691] I also think he was, you know, what, what we did when, when you, when we debuted our show, we went back to this idea, which was like the, McMan, but we wanted to turn it on its head, which is, no, you're not there to be the butt of the joke.

[692] You are this incredibly funny guy who's got free reign to do whatever you want.

[693] He's playing with the old form, which is, ah, Conan, you know, the host here, what's up with this guy over here?

[694] And he's doing it because he loved all those old contrivances.

[695] You just loved them.

[696] Right.

[697] Well, you know, the other thing, you know, you were talking about you're about how nice he was to your sister and it showed that side that engaged yeah he was engaging but you know uh i got to see well first of all he was emotional and we saw that on letterman yeah yeah when he was the last stand -up but he when he brought his son to the show uh Dylan he you could see the love and even throughout the 28 years that we worked together i mean anytime his son was brought up and i think it's on the show you could see how much he loved them And I remember when he brought Dylan to the Tonight Show And we put him in a bit And it was great.

[698] It was a parody of the show, John and Kate plus eight.

[699] It was called Norm Plus One.

[700] And it was just Norm and Dylan watching TV And being like, don't you have to go to school today or something?

[701] And just, you know, yeah, I do.

[702] And so it was kind of, you know, just that.

[703] But you could see how happy he was.

[704] to do being a bit with the sun and being around him.

[705] You know, there was that side.

[706] Yeah.

[707] Yeah, I think that he will be, you know, I do think that, you know, the more I think about it, the more I think he is going to be, I think, as important or more important in five years from now than even at this moment.

[708] I just think he's got to have because especially he's so different from anything else in the comedy world and also he so was out of time and out of sync with a lot of the cultural mores now and the way that, and it's almost like he showed up in a time machine or came through a portal and just arrived here and, you know, refused to play ball.

[709] And it was, it really is art. It really is fascinating to see someone pull that off.

[710] And I was just left with this feeling of, oh, Jesus, no more of that.

[711] Yeah.

[712] No more norm.

[713] And it's a very selfish feeling.

[714] Like, no. No, I can't believe.

[715] believe there's not going to be more.

[716] That's unbelievable to me. It's strange.

[717] Yeah.

[718] But he's a gift because you can go on YouTube and laugh for, there's so much out there that is so entertaining.

[719] Yeah.

[720] And it's endless.

[721] Well, that's the, and it's all great.

[722] That is the gift now of this world we live in.

[723] People always talk about, well, all the problems with the internet and how much grief it's brought us.

[724] And I think, yeah, it's equal parts good and bad, I'm sure.

[725] But, man, to have, you know, this access to norm at all times whenever you, and the fact that his work is just going to be bouncing around the internet forever.

[726] Yeah.

[727] And, you know, gives me a lot of, a lot of joy.

[728] And you get to see all the different things.

[729] You get to, because I, you know, I was thinking.

[730] And when a lot of the, you know, a lot of the clips that went around on Wednesday and that we're going around yesterday are him on talk shows.

[731] And that was just such like one small part of what he did.

[732] Yeah.

[733] And I think probably more people know him from talk show appearances than people that have, you know, watched his stand -up specials and things.

[734] Right.

[735] It's just, it's, you know, that's, it's more widespread in the popular culture.

[736] But now people are going to get to see those things.

[737] And hopefully, you know, they'll put some more of, you know, some more.

[738] the weekend update stuff that he did out yeah well that's all been destroyed um it was a big fire mysterious fire the clipware house yep um um um uh i'm really appreciate you guys uh coming in i i called both of you yesterday and said i've got this weird idea but you know It would just help me to sit and talk about norm, and this was helpful, and it felt like a therapy session.

[739] So I think we'll be bringing him up again, that's for sure.

[740] And there'll be plenty of people parsing the norm of it all in the coming weeks, months, years.

[741] But it was good to just sit here and talk about him about him a bit.

[742] You know?

[743] I'm just grateful I got to know him a little bit.

[744] Yeah.

[745] And I don't know why this just occurred to me. I just suddenly had a flash memory.

[746] It's such a disorganized show, but this is just what's happening.

[747] But I keep having these moments at NBC, and I, Norm was going to do the show, and I heard that he was in the makeup room, that little makeup room.

[748] So I went in to say hi, and I thought he was getting, getting his makeup on.

[749] No, he was sitting in a makeup chair, but he already had his makeup on, and he was watching a college basketball game, and it was the very end of the college basketball game, and the game ends, and he was like, damn it!

[750] And I was saying, Norm, what's wrong?

[751] I was like, I just lost a lot of money.

[752] He lost, he was like, I just lost a shit ton of money on that game, and he was in such a bad moon, and I was like, are you going to be okay for the show?

[753] And he's like, eh, let's do it.

[754] I remember thinking, well, what good is this?

[755] Yeah, yeah.

[756] But then, of course, he was killed.

[757] He killed, and he was hilarious.

[758] But you don't want to see your comedian lose his house on a basketball game in the makeup room seconds before you do the show.

[759] But, yeah, that was also Norm.

[760] Many, many sides, very complex.

[761] And I'm going to wrap this up.

[762] But Norm, we are thinking of you.

[763] and, you know, we'll see you on the next astral plane where you will probably waste my time with a 45 -minute, pointless knock -knock joke.

[764] And he'll be in trouble with the manager.

[765] And you'll be in trouble with God.

[766] God will be mad at you.

[767] Oh, God's got to, what's up God's ass all of a sudden?

[768] And what's with his kid?

[769] I'll get it, your God.

[770] What are you, God?

[771] Yeah, all right.

[772] All right.

[773] I guess we'll play it that way then, huh?

[774] Anyway, I didn't know they let hobos in heaven.

[775] All right, thank you for listening.