45- Funky Diva

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] You go first.

[17] Welcome to my favorite murder, the podcast that asked the question.

[18] What?

[19] Huh?

[20] Who put this on?

[21] Huh?

[22] This is not appropriate.

[23] No. Murder?

[24] What murder?

[25] How dare you?

[26] What is wrong with you girls?

[27] How dare you like this?

[28] My sensibilities are offended.

[29] I'm offended in my sensibility area.

[30] I'm offended in the face.

[31] I'm offended religiously.

[32] In my mouth.

[33] Morally.

[34] In the mouth.

[35] Your nose and throat.

[36] Virtually.

[37] Your nose and throat.

[38] In the eyes.

[39] spinal fluid heart not the spine just the spinal fluid spleen this is so this is the anatomy podcast yes we can name over 10 things in your body congratulations to us yay that's georgia that's karen and we're here to talk to you about all of our favorite uh things we like the most which is true crime yeah welcome if you don't like it later days the wrong pcast for you bro I stole that from Vince.

[40] I don't want to take credit for that.

[41] This is the wrong P -Cast pie for you, friend.

[42] Yeah.

[43] Get another P -Cast.

[44] It's funny, but isn't it funny, Karen, if you reflect.

[45] I was peeing today as you do, and I was reflecting as I do.

[46] As you're forced to.

[47] Right.

[48] And I was thinking about how funny it is that this, like, thing that we've been obsessed with and secretly in love with and certain, like, is our kind of going to be our career.

[49] it's pretty nice to think that little karen was right about at least one thing that's a pretty good feeling yeah because she fucked up a ton of stuff i just keep accidentally falling into like not fucking up yeah you know that's nice yeah is that you mean in later life yeah like we got our fucked up stuff out of the way early yeah which is kind of i think what you're supposed to do yeah we're lucky because like 20 well By 25, I was like, I'm good.

[50] Yeah.

[51] Yeah, by 27, I was like, well, I didn't die, so I'm going to stop doing all those things now.

[52] Yeah, there's no going down from being rehab at 14.

[53] I still love that.

[54] I like to think of you in a big pair of orange junko jeans, just being like, hey, they have a clove or whatever.

[55] Just like, so different.

[56] Ooh, sorry.

[57] That's a, that's little 14 -year -old Georgia.

[58] And she appears out of a puff of smoke in, like, an orange jinkgo.

[59] Is it jinko?

[60] I thought it was, I don't know.

[61] I'm sure it's different everywhere.

[62] I'm too old to even really know.

[63] It's not my reference.

[64] Thank God, I never wore those.

[65] I did wear vinyl pants to raves.

[66] Did you?

[67] Weren't they hot?

[68] Uh -huh.

[69] Tight?

[70] Never washed them.

[71] Gross.

[72] I know.

[73] Was there some benefit to not washing them?

[74] Like, were they easier to put on next time?

[75] I just don't know how one would wash vinyl or leather pants.

[76] Oh.

[77] yeah you just have to throw them away yeah and start over totally where do you get vinyl pants there is this you remember when melrose avenue was like the fucking coolest place in the world yeah i do actually that was like our we would save up money throughout the year in orange county and make a pilgrimage to fucking melrose yeah and my first job when i moved to l a like at six that 17 was like on melrose at like one of those clothing stores what's that funky diva literally it's called funky diva i'm i'm positive I shopped at Funky Diva.

[78] I bet you came in.

[79] Tons of chokers.

[80] Yes.

[81] Wouldn't that be amazing if right now we could see security camera footage of me and you having some kind of rude exchange at Funky Diva?

[82] Why doesn't have to be rude?

[83] Because I'm rude.

[84] That's all I was doing back then was rudeness, rudeness, rudeness, friends, foes didn't matter.

[85] I love it.

[86] It was a lot of arched eyebrows and a lot of, uh, anyway.

[87] I'm sorry.

[88] Sorry.

[89] I'm sorry.

[90] What I'm enjoying these days is people on Twitter trying to show that they mean I'm sorry the way you say it they're trying to do it in the writing so sometimes it's all caps I'm and then sorry sometimes it's reversed like how do you actually put that into I would do all caps I'm but some girl did you see that on Instagram I put up a photo of some girl who wrote like there was like a musical bar and it had the like times and it was like how one would play it you could sing it yeah and she had the like She must have been a musician.

[91] I wish I could, but yeah.

[92] That's genius.

[93] Sorry.

[94] Do you ever, like, do you get, like, self -conscious about the things you say here that become a thing like that where you're like, I would say that anyways, but now it sounds like I'm pandering.

[95] Yes.

[96] Now, well, now it sounds like you're trying to make some kind of an infographic for.

[97] Totally.

[98] Here's your favor.

[99] Like, someone at the live show was text afterwards, like, not texted, but, like, put on, like, I was really hoping you'd call someone a sweet baby angel.

[100] I'm like, well, I don't, I don't call anyone that because I don't want to sound like, right guys?

[101] Yes, you don't, yeah, it's not like your, uh, that's your, um, tag tag line.

[102] Catch phrase.

[103] Tag tag catch line phrase.

[104] You're not going to tag anybody with that phrase.

[105] My problem is, I cannot believe, I don't, I cannot believe that I still say literally so much.

[106] It is literally the worst habit of all time.

[107] I say it, when I'm like kind of trying to explain something to you and I'm really like really trying to convey something, I'll say literally like seven times.

[108] It's awful.

[109] I haven't noticed it.

[110] I don't pay attention to anyone with myself.

[111] So I wouldn't know.

[112] Good plan.

[113] Good plan.

[114] You know what I mean?

[115] I guess same here.

[116] Yeah, nobody cares.

[117] Yeah, nobody gives a shit.

[118] No one gets the shit about you, but yourself and your cats.

[119] It's nice to be, we, by the way, we had such an incredible time in Chicago.

[120] We, I mean, it was nutto.

[121] We, um, I, I'm speaking for both of us now.

[122] No, I'm speaking for the role.

[123] I had a horrible, yeah, Georgia did not enjoy yourself.

[124] We, the Karen, uh, it was so crazy to walk out.

[125] As I explained to my sister and you and our whole, all of our people afterwards, I said, I anticipated, um, a certain amount of applause.

[126] Yeah.

[127] And we got like 15 times more than what I anticipated.

[128] How many?

[129] I've seen so many, like, a couple of friends have texted me, and I've seen a couple tweets and things, like, that they got so emotional when they heard the applause of us coming.

[130] Yeah, people keep saying that.

[131] What a bunch of nice people.

[132] I know.

[133] Thank you for clapping.

[134] I know.

[135] And, like, it just is neat.

[136] It's so neat.

[137] It's really neat.

[138] I think we're a little overwhelmed.

[139] And how neat it is.

[140] And how neat everything is.

[141] And we're trying to process it.

[142] Yeah.

[143] And we're just.

[144] It's just happy.

[145] It's so flattering and we're happy.

[146] And we want to thank each and every one of you, which I think we did after the show.

[147] We stood there and thank you.

[148] We fucking thanked you all to your face.

[149] I hugged so many people.

[150] And thank the Lord, nobody was weird.

[151] Nobody.

[152] Nobody.

[153] Nobody.

[154] I was really waiting for like somebody with some scissors up their sleeve or something.

[155] And everybody did great.

[156] My mom sat to the side in a chair with a beer and just watched.

[157] It was like an hour and a half.

[158] It was so long.

[159] And she watched the entire.

[160] earth.

[161] So did my sister and Adrian and Audrey.

[162] After a little while, Audrey came over and just started taking pictures of us taking pictures with people because she was so excited.

[163] Everybody was thrilled about it.

[164] But we did want to thank Tyler Green and Jonathan Pitts are the two people who put the Chicago podcast festival together and they made it happen for us and for everybody who is there and we want to thank them so much because they did an amazing job.

[165] Yeah, it was so smooth and easy and grade and there was soda in the green room and there was a green room candy yeah we had a whole we had a bag of treats yeah that awesome do you know how much i fucking love like that what do they call the when you leave a place and they give you a bag an exit bag whatever i fucking like no one it's i don't know it sounded right oh like a swag bag swag bag yeah yeah i will go to a fucking party just for the swag bag sure even if i could buy it myself i will fucking like you know buy a little present I just want to like not yeah like presents um we also want to thank that the staff of the i never pronounce it right but the anthonyum theater which is the 105 year old theater where we did our show where all those people were and that staff had to wait until we said hi to every single person practically um and so thank you guys so much for your patience and for being there for us and um i actually i have a business card of the the man who really arranged that lobby situation and I meant to bring it to say his name specifically.

[166] The dude who stood there and took every photograph.

[167] He was like handmaier camera.

[168] They were so great.

[169] They were so nice.

[170] And the whole experience was just like pretty.

[171] I didn't really look at you that much because I didn't want to have like we weren't having that much personal experience.

[172] Yeah.

[173] Because I didn't want to like either.

[174] Burst into tears.

[175] Yeah.

[176] You can't look at me a lot in like emotional settings, I feel like.

[177] No, I mean.

[178] want to get emotional.

[179] I need to shut down in very specific ways.

[180] And I can't, you know me, I can't open it back up or it'll be tears, tears, tears.

[181] Okay.

[182] I guess, yeah.

[183] God, we're so, we're so different.

[184] We're like opposite.

[185] We're like the opposite.

[186] Um, oh, speaking of live shows.

[187] So our Brooklyn Bell House show is coming up, which I'm so excited about and is sold out.

[188] I heard there might be some tickets available.

[189] Really?

[190] Maybe.

[191] Oh, I don't know.

[192] I don't know.

[193] And then we have other shows coming up.

[194] So like, this might be like a show thing, maybe once in a blue.

[195] So we're doing the Riot L .A. show on Saturday, January 21st.

[196] Those tickets, the pre -sale, we announced that this morning, and then the actual tickets go on sale Friday.

[197] So if you live in Los Angeles and you want to come to the - It's going to be a good show.

[198] The Riot Fest show, that should be great.

[199] Yeah.

[200] Because that's the one at the Orphium, right?

[201] I think so, yeah.

[202] So it's another big old -fashioned theater.

[203] Yeah.

[204] Please help fill it out so we don't feel stupid.

[205] Yeah, we don't want to feel stupid on our own.

[206] city.

[207] Oh my God.

[208] Like around people that we know.

[209] Oh my God.

[210] And we keep talking about like, oh, in Chicago, they did this and pat our back, pat our back.

[211] And then we go to LA and it's like four people.

[212] Yeah.

[213] It's like your manager, my agent wouldn't go.

[214] Who else would be there.

[215] Judging us in the crowd.

[216] No one makes a giant Elvis fucking cut out face like they did in Chicago.

[217] Oh, I forgot.

[218] So a girl made.

[219] Oh my God.

[220] I'm going to call her out because she was amazing.

[221] She took a picture of Elvis.

[222] She blew it up so it was bigger than a human head.

[223] like twice the size of a human head and then she had it in front of her face so when the lights came up and we were talking to people to get the hometown murder at the end I saw this thing that I thought a girl dressed up like a furry like dressed up like Elvis it scared the shit out of me I was genuinely scared but it turned out she was just holding it in front of her face like look Elvis is here you can find the photos on Instagram where my favorite murder Instagram her name's Alex Graves and what a fucking angel baby like thank you so much like that was so fucking cool it was super cool and i have photos of us with it and i have this photo from my hotel room of me and wear having it in front of my face it really does look like when you hold it up it just looks like you're now a huge simi's cat it's creepy but in the best way because i'm obsessed with this cat yeah like he's sitting next to me right now and i also have siami's pajama pants on right now you're in you're living the life oh i'm in and deep.

[224] You're living that life.

[225] I have a parasite in my brain that just controls me and it's, and it's cat.

[226] It's from cats.

[227] Probably, right?

[228] Sure.

[229] That's real sad.

[230] Are you going to bring that cat head to New York so then you, so Elvis can be there too?

[231] It doesn't, it didn't fit in my bad.

[232] I should tell you something and I feel really shitty about it.

[233] It's super huge.

[234] Did you have to leave stuff behind?

[235] Okay.

[236] I don't care.

[237] Okay.

[238] I know, but I know you don't, but I feel really bad.

[239] So like, But it's kind of cute.

[240] Okay, so we took a photo of it in the hotel.

[241] Then we were packing to leave in tonight.

[242] And then I was like, it doesn't fit.

[243] What do we do?

[244] And he was like, put it behind the couch in the hotel room.

[245] So I slipped it behind the couch at the fucking Godfrey hotel in one of the rooms behind the couch is a fucking elvis.

[246] And it has this girl's info on it, like, not info info, but like, you know, Instagram and shit on it.

[247] So someone's going to motherfuck up find that.

[248] That's hilarious.

[249] You know what's interesting?

[250] I had brought a dress with me to Chicago.

[251] that I bought in a panic at Target for $20.

[252] Didn't try it on.

[253] I was like, this is going to be a, look, a dress.

[254] Look, I'm doing it.

[255] Grabbed it.

[256] Was it black?

[257] No, it wasn't black, actually.

[258] It was like green and maroon and black, but it was kind of stripy and there's a lot going on.

[259] When I got to Chicago and tried it on, it turned out it was Empir Waste.

[260] Oh, God, no. Which makes me look, because I have big boobs, so it made me look like I was in my third trimester.

[261] My sisters, like, take it off.

[262] Anorexical.

[263] are the only people look good in them.

[264] And you shouldn't be anorexic.

[265] Right.

[266] so no one.

[267] Nobody.

[268] So that's why I went shopping and told that whole story if you want to hear.

[269] It's not a good story, but it's on the park.

[270] Are we both wore black dresses?

[271] Are we going to just, are we doing that from now on?

[272] Those are our show uniforms?

[273] Like the same dress or just black, any kind of black outfit?

[274] I think we should keep it like any kind.

[275] Okay.

[276] Don't you?

[277] Yes, except that means I have to go shopping because I literally own like three black things because I dress like a fucking school girl, grandma.

[278] Well, then you have 10 days.

[279] You have 10 days for New York.

[280] And I love shopping.

[281] Oh, my God.

[282] Shopping's amazing.

[283] I love it.

[284] But I left that dress in our hotel room with a note that said, you can have this if you want it.

[285] You should have returned it.

[286] Oh, no, I'm an asshole.

[287] Yeah, I've turned shit all the time to Target.

[288] I ripped, anytime I buy something, I rip all the tags off immediately.

[289] You do.

[290] See, I have, I'm claustrophobic and can't go in a changing room, so I just bring everything home and then return it all.

[291] I think I don't go in a changing room because I don't want to see my back in one of those mirrors.

[292] I saw mine recently.

[293] my butt like it had the mirror behind me like my mirror stops at like my it's like my waist up yeah which is like the great area sure i look so hot from like behind in the waist up with your with the back of your bra and everything yeah it's like oh well now because i'm not got that like fat pinch because i refuse to believe i'm bigger than everyone has that that's human i don't need to see my fucking butt right then when you're in one of those high tension dressing rooms yeah oh oh so yeah i just want to pretend that that's not true.

[294] I just like to think that there was a housekeeping lady who was just like, oh my God, a cute dress.

[295] And I wrote on the note, never been worn.

[296] I hope she believed me. Anyhow, thanks Chicago.

[297] We really love you.

[298] Yeah, Chicago.

[299] Do we have any other housekeeping?

[300] Housekeeping me?

[301] Oh, my only thing is I had started watching a show called, did you start called The Killing season?

[302] No, but I need I need to watch it.

[303] Okay, yesterday.

[304] I haven't been hearing enough about it.

[305] Okay, I think we'll be the engine for that.

[306] I think so.

[307] Because I started watching it yesterday, I had heard a little bit and so it's a series about the Long Island serial killer and I'd started that book so long ago and said I was going to do an episode about it.

[308] And this is one of, like the murder that I heard about beforehand is so fucking crazy and insane.

[309] The girl who went to privately dance for that dude.

[310] Yes.

[311] Who like, something happened.

[312] Yes.

[313] The thing that, like, kicked it off.

[314] Like, it should be solvable based on that murder.

[315] I love it.

[316] So this series is by the people, um, that two people, Joshua Zeman and Rachel Mills.

[317] And they're the two people who did the documentary Cropsey that we recommended to everybody.

[318] That's super upsetting.

[319] Well, this is an A &E series.

[320] A &E is amazing.

[321] I love Cropsey because it's not corny.

[322] Like, there's so many documentaries that are, like, corny.

[323] Right.

[324] Cropsey is not.

[325] No, no, it's just straight up scary.

[326] Yeah.

[327] Well, this series, it's called The Killing Season.

[328] It's on Annie.

[329] This is not an ad, by the way, in the middle.

[330] Like, we're not talking.

[331] This is real talking.

[332] Yeah.

[333] Now we have to say stuff like that.

[334] Real talking corner.

[335] So I started watching yesterday, and I ended up laying on my couch and watching six episodes straight through.

[336] And by the time I got to the six episode, I didn't, I needed to leave my house and be around human beings that I knew I would be safe with.

[337] Oh my God, like that.

[338] It was very upsetting.

[339] And I don't have that.

[340] Like, it normally, I don't get that.

[341] And I really did, like, I went to the movies with Alison Agosti.

[342] And then I told her, she started it today and texted me today and was like, I cannot stop watching the killing season.

[343] Maybe I shouldn't watch it.

[344] I mean, I don't think Vince was going to want to watch it with me. It's really heavy.

[345] But the thing is that it starts with the Long Island serial killer.

[346] And then it just expands like to other She just keeps going.

[347] Yeah, because there's all these things connect.

[348] You have to see it.

[349] I'm fucking watching the shit out of that.

[350] Highly recommend if you haven't seen it.

[351] I did the same thing yesterday, literally, with search party.

[352] Oh, yes.

[353] And now I'm like, I was like, I'm going to watch, I watched five minutes of the first episode and I was like, I'm going to save this for Vince because it's really good.

[354] And it's going and then I'm on episode like six now.

[355] I couldn't fucking, I couldn't stop.

[356] Like I did my nails because I wanted to sit in front of the TV and I can't sit in front of the TV without something.

[357] Right.

[358] So, like, my nails are nice.

[359] My fucking laundry was folded out here, which I never, like, it was just I folded laundry too.

[360] Oh my God.

[361] Yeah, you got to do something.

[362] I have been, I watched one episode of Search Party and then I had to leave my house.

[363] I, like, had to be somewhere.

[364] Yeah.

[365] And I knew if I started the second one, I would not leave.

[366] Every character, John Early, is that he?

[367] Yeah.

[368] He is so fucking perfect.

[369] There's like four main characters and they're just like the perfect exact people of who they're supposed to be.

[370] Yeah.

[371] And it's so, uh, did you get the feeling to where when I saw the first episode I got jealous that that's their like oh you're making this show already like I want this show I do you I was thinking that about you writing then I'm like how stoked would you be if this was the show you were working on yeah yeah I want like a fucking can I be someone's sister's friend's brother no no no I want like a walk on role and yeah I want you to write it it's uh okay yeah we'll come to them with um a bunch of big ideas so good it's so good uh watch search party like it's so good and I think it's all on demand too so you can binge the shit out of it yeah you can it feels like everything's that just it feels like I would do what she's doing right what's her a leah a leah shockwatt she is so cute I bet you I didn't pronounce that right alia I don't know she's so maybe from arrested development yeah she's the darlingest person I've ever seen she's such a good actress too yeah oh my god I'm so happy uh so that's like um TV corner?

[372] Tea corner.

[373] Um, I think that's all I have.

[374] Merch Corner, but we have merch.

[375] We have merch.

[376] We have merch.

[377] My favorite murder shirts .com.

[378] So you can, and there's not just shirts.

[379] I made that up when we only had a shirt.

[380] Now I wish it was my favorite murdermerch .com, but I can't do that.

[381] So.

[382] Well, yeah, you get the idea.

[383] Now I have mugs and tank tops and totes and posters.

[384] fucking.

[385] And the cool thing in Chicago, as each person walked up, we got to see another piece of merch in action.

[386] That was really exciting.

[387] My favorite were these two girls and one had a shirt on that said, I am a Karen.

[388] And I said, I'm a Georgia.

[389] And remember the fucking over the week, there was a fucking BuzzFeed quiz.

[390] Am I a Georgia?

[391] I know.

[392] I mean, that was fucking ridiculous.

[393] Guys.

[394] You can, but users can make those things out.

[395] I know.

[396] It was totally like it was a user who made them but it was so good don't hate us like yeah we're not we're not we're not we just aren't where is this just stop it because we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we won't like promise we won't like you are and we're not you are but we're not no like we're just you know yes for sure okay well they got that out of the way fuck um do murders oh stephen do you need do you need a stephen check in Steven, check in.

[397] How are you, Steven?

[398] My sister had a great time in Chicago.

[399] Oh, nice.

[400] And I did hang out with the cats.

[401] Thank you.

[402] When I go out of town, Stephen takes over the Elvis and Mimi Instagram, and it's like, I kind of need to pay you extra for like that because it's so good.

[403] I was just thinking where I was during the show.

[404] And I'm just like sitting here petting Elvis as it should be.

[405] Yeah, no, it was perfect.

[406] But my sister, she met a really.

[407] nice murderino and her mom who's also murderino and they got a picture with her and everything which is very sweet.

[408] I love it.

[409] Her name was Lee or Leah or something like that, but it was very sweet.

[410] That's so great.

[411] And my sister, like I was telling you, I was like, my sister needs to listen to my favorite murder because she was obsessed with Helter Skelter.

[412] I got her devil in the white city when she moved to Chicago.

[413] So it was just like, this is, this needs to happen.

[414] She's got all the materials.

[415] She has no excuses.

[416] Yeah.

[417] She's got to get into it.

[418] No. And we gave you, we called her sister Ray Morris gave you a shout out that's right that was very sweet someone needs to get a giant Stephen Ray Morris cut out that's right that's the next one oh my God no that sounds like I would never want to see my face like that but it needs to be three times the size as the last one you need to basically not be able to bring it in because they're like you can't someone make a macy's Thanksgiving Day parade balloon of Stephen that would be perfect if you don't mind it would not be that big of a deal.

[419] We'll leave it behind a what, the couch.

[420] We'll leave it in the basement of the holiday inn.

[421] You just told everyone we're staying.

[422] No, we're not staying in a holiday.

[423] I know.

[424] Not that we're going to, okay, here we.

[425] Nobody gives a shit.

[426] We're not.

[427] They know.

[428] No, we're not.

[429] We're not.

[430] And we've told you that from the beginning.

[431] We said it before and we're going to say it again.

[432] Like you guys know.

[433] Please, if you know anything, you have to know that.

[434] No, we need.

[435] know yes we know and we're not three hours later they're still doing that thing oh here's me typing an email cute guys start the podcast no fuck you we've got to improv some more stop pissing karen off Elvis is leaving he's like fuck these bitches you pissed me off then you piss Elvis off then it's over Mimi's fine though oh yeah those people gave us like Elvis and Mimi toys and they're like they look like oh god I'm going to lose my mind everyone's the best we got nice presents all right um i love it they're so good and nice all these people i know i know it i think oh what i'm sorry here's the last one the girl who as she walked up i my sister and adrian and audrey like cried laughing when i told the story the girl who walked up like hey you guys kind of all young and like she was doing weird things with her shoulders so she's all kind of goofy and then she when she got in to take the picture she goes you guys my my dad killed his business partner and got away with it.

[436] Bye, stay sexy.

[437] Don't get her.

[438] She was just like this cute, like kind of sorority -ish chick.

[439] Hey, how are you guys?

[440] Like, yeah.

[441] And she did put her arm and like, you know, when you're like talking to someone as the photos getting taken?

[442] Yeah, like all Sony like straight face or whatever.

[443] She was so excited about it.

[444] My dad killed his business partner and he got away with it.

[445] Bye.

[446] We were like, wow.

[447] I've never been that starstruck in my life.

[448] Yeah.

[449] I was like with email.

[450] I wanted to give her my personal email account to just be like, email us now.

[451] I said say hi to your dad for me. It was hilariously funny.

[452] That was gorgeous.

[453] It was a beautiful mom.

[454] If you admit to other people's crimes to us in person, we'll mention you on the podcast.

[455] We will listen and we will shout it out.

[456] And we will be subpoenaed in the trial.

[457] No lying, please.

[458] All right.

[459] Should we start?

[460] I guess.

[461] I think now the homework part comes.

[462] No, I like my murder.

[463] Are you, this is one I wanted to do, but I think you're first.

[464] I think I am.

[465] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[466] Absolutely.

[467] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[468] Exactly.

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[481] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[482] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[483] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[484] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[485] Goodbye.

[486] Hey, this is exciting.

[487] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[488] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[489] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[490] Who killed Saz?

[491] And were they really after Charles?

[492] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[493] This season, murder hits close to home.

[494] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[495] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[496] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[497] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[498] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Davey, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon and more.

[499] Only Martyrs in the building premieres August 27th streaming only on Hulu.

[500] Goodbye.

[501] So I have, because of watching the killing season and how heavy it is and how it feels like everyone in the world is a serial killer by the time you're halfway through with it.

[502] I don't know.

[503] In some ways is a fun feeling.

[504] It's fun, isn't it?

[505] I like it.

[506] And yet you're still alive.

[507] We made it everybody.

[508] So I switched over as a pallet cleanser.

[509] I started watching The Crown, which is a wonderful Netflix series.

[510] British procedural?

[511] It sounds British.

[512] Is it British?

[513] It's the story of Queen Elizabeth.

[514] I figured.

[515] God, I'm so smart.

[516] The newest one.

[517] Yeah.

[518] So in a way, it is kind of a British procedural.

[519] Wait, it's the newest show about the, about, about like, how she got, became the queen and what her life was like privately.

[520] She's like a badass.

[521] she's a total badass there's parts in it i want the crown tv show to come out with their own book on how to be politely assertive yeah because that's her and also i want them to come out with the color of lipstick that she's wearing because it's this perfect shade of pinkish red that would actually look at i can't wear red because my teethers yellow is little corn nibblets you're very fair i'm very fair with red in my skin so red lipstick on me makes me look like i have been smoking crack in the alley.

[522] I look like a fucking, what do they call them, a rockabilly?

[523] And it's an raucous.

[524] Yeah.

[525] Well, this is like this muted brownish pink lipstick.

[526] I bet it's, I bet they make it for her.

[527] There's not even the thing you can fucking buy.

[528] Get with it.

[529] I bet they, well, we have a fucking lip gloss that was made for us, too, that that girl sent us.

[530] That's right.

[531] So, the queen.

[532] I'm sorry.

[533] It's not that fucking special.

[534] But I want the queens because it, because we've started doing coke before everything.

[535] back to being 14 so so I blended into this very British kind of fancy regal area yeah like controlled yes and aristocratic which is I mean like if if I was in that time I would be like truly the dishwasher in the bottom part of the basement like oh my governor that's Karen do you need a candlestick and I wouldn't but with an Irish accent, which for some reason I can't do right now.

[536] So I decided that my murder is going to be that of the infamous, infamous story of Lord Lucan.

[537] Have you ever heard of him?

[538] I don't think so.

[539] Okay.

[540] This one's pretty good because it involves British aristocracy and a disappearance.

[541] You know I love disappearances.

[542] All right.

[543] So, and also I was going to do this story after, remember when we did Harmontown and then we met that British couple.

[544] outside on the street.

[545] And they were on their honeymoon.

[546] Oh my God, they were so sweet.

[547] They were so sweet.

[548] And they were just getting tattoos.

[549] And they were having like this amazing honeymoon.

[550] And they'd come to see us.

[551] And they didn't even ask for a photo, which is like, you know Americans do that.

[552] Yeah.

[553] They were, didn't want a photo.

[554] They kind of want us to go away a little bit.

[555] But they were like, hi, we came to see.

[556] We came from England to see you.

[557] Which meant the world to me. We didn't get their names.

[558] No. But high shout out if you're still listening.

[559] Sweet angels.

[560] Pip, pip.

[561] That wasn't a fucking pander to the audience.

[562] when I said sweet baby angels just no that was natural that's natural it felt very natural um so i was thinking of doing lord lucan after we met them of like hey this is shout out to you but that was what six months ago or something um so i brought this word document back out and began to fill it out again so here's the story of this guy um he it was born john bingham uh and uh he was born on December 18th, 1934 to an aristocratic family in Marleybone, which is the funniest name for it's a neighborhood, I guess, in London.

[563] Oh, you're going to get, I don't care what you say next.

[564] You're going to get a correction about like what it is.

[565] Pronunciation.

[566] It's not in London.

[567] It's actually in Wales.

[568] It's not a neighborhood.

[569] It's a fucking.

[570] It's a fucking in New York.

[571] It's where and it's town's fucking in New York.

[572] Bye.

[573] Yeah, this whole, I'm, I once again, I'm flying in the face of of logic and just trying to be British once again.

[574] Aim for the fucking nose.

[575] Aim for the stars.

[576] Aim for that button nose.

[577] So this, so John Bingham, during World War II, when he was a boy, he was evacuated out of London, out of Marley Bone.

[578] They'd be like, it's pronounced Milibin.

[579] Yeah, totally.

[580] He was evacuated to Wales and then to Canada.

[581] And he got to live with his rich, like, friends of family.

[582] That sounds nice.

[583] Relatives, yeah.

[584] We were, like, crazy rich.

[585] But then when he came back to England, when the war was over, he was sent to Eaton college.

[586] Now, I was thinking about this in my head, but I didn't look it up.

[587] I think over there, Eaton is like a boarding school that's like grammar and high school.

[588] It's not necessarily a college, like we think of college.

[589] They have, like, finishing school, right, where, like, you pass your, again.

[590] where you put a book on your head?

[591] Save it if you want to fucking email, text us, that we're, tweet us that we're wrong.

[592] It's like a...

[593] Someone in England tell us what eat in college is.

[594] I don't care.

[595] No, I don't tell me. But I think it's...

[596] Like a finishing school.

[597] No, I'm going to keep saying that until you agree with me. This time you said it, like you'd been thinking about it and now you've decided it's a finishing school.

[598] I think it's like high school and perhaps...

[599] Like a boarding school.

[600] Yeah, okay.

[601] Exactly.

[602] Anyhow.

[603] Finally, we agree.

[604] So when he was there, he supplemented his pocket money with, he was a bookie.

[605] Oh, that's cool, right?

[606] Yeah, I think it's very cool.

[607] He had a secret bank account.

[608] Oh, my God.

[609] And he made money.

[610] As a kid?

[611] My grandfather was a bookie.

[612] For real?

[613] Yeah.

[614] Barber.

[615] The barbershop front.

[616] Barber quote, quote unquote.

[617] Booky.

[618] Nice.

[619] Anyway, sorry.

[620] So this kid, he would leave the school grounds, go to horse races, take bets, and he was like the school bookie.

[621] That's so cool.

[622] Love it.

[623] Well, the bad part, the uncool part is that he turned out to be a terrible compulsive gambler later on.

[624] Take that back.

[625] But when he's a kid, that's cute.

[626] Yeah.

[627] So he got the nickname Lucky Lucan after winning 26 ,000 pounds at the card game Shemend de Fur in Luton.

[628] tour the two k none of that's real none of it is meaningful to me in any way but he won he won a game a bunch of pounds and so that's what made him think i'm i'm lucky and i should be doing this all the time um so so uh when he got out of school he was in the army for a little bit and then he um started a job as a merchant banker um but he had had a very expensive tastes because he was still an aristocrat his parents were very um very what do you call that i was going to say staunch but that's from gray gardens it's um um like one of you they didn't spend a lot of money they they were like religious and uh what's the what's the word when you try to i'm like making a gesture on my chest yeah like frugal frugal frugal there we go this gesture worked for me how long did that fucking take If this podcast is two hours long, it's because we're trying to remember words that neither of us can...

[629] Who could enjoy this?

[630] I don't know.

[631] It's madness.

[632] Even Stephen is like, can you...

[633] Get your fucking shit together.

[634] Okay.

[635] So, he had a very expensive taste, because he was still an aristocrat at the end of the day, and he was raised, you know, by rich people in North America.

[636] So he had taste for the best Russian vodka.

[637] He liked to race power boats.

[638] like yon and from this lift of at wikipedia donate to Wikipedia by the way if only just three dollars oh can you donate to Wikipedia yeah yeah it's all that they're yeah they're actually having like they're kind of like public television right now oh I didn't know that and they're trying to get people to to give them money um because they just they need to stick around I have so many questions I mean I love Wikipedia but I won't ask them right now if you click on there right now the thing will come up to say please give us three dollars okay and then we'll do it.

[639] That's, yeah.

[640] I mean, it seems fair for all the shit they give me. Oh, my God.

[641] The hours I spent when I had a desk job looking at unsolved murders and serial killers and love it.

[642] So anyway, this guy basically, he's living the life.

[643] He likes the best of all things.

[644] I was just going to say at the end of this sentence, they were like, he had the best tastes.

[645] He loved the best, you know, he raised boats.

[646] He loved Russian vodka and smart cars, which I think in, in England, probably means smart like cool cars but here means tiny toy looking cars that are the stupidest looking cars you could drive i just time travel too because those didn't exist right like how cool would that be if he were just like they're like he invented the smart car yeah all right anyway um he was also very charismatic he was six foot two with a quote from wikipedia a luxuriant mustache like stevens um and he was once considered to play the role of james Bond.

[647] Oh, shit.

[648] So he's that, you see a picture of him on Wikipedia.

[649] He's pretty cute.

[650] He's hot as fuck.

[651] Yeah, yeah.

[652] He, he, he's very British aristocratic looking, kind of like, don't piss anyone off.

[653] I won't.

[654] It's a high class.

[655] You know what I mean?

[656] It's a British thing.

[657] Pointy nose and kind of like, he looks like he'd be like, very good.

[658] Hey man, my husband is the spitting image of Prince William.

[659] So what am I going to?

[660] That's exactly right.

[661] Clearly I'm into British shoes.

[662] Yeah, no complaints.

[663] Also, at one point, he was ranked among the top ten uh the world's top 10 backgammon players so there you have it kind of cool badass yeah talk about sex i mean i don't know what backgammon is exactly but i bet it's hard it's you know what it is it's like chess for drunk people is what it is all right it still sounds like i don't think like like chess for drunk people to me is like bingo connect four is just that's right for drunk people.

[664] Yeah.

[665] Bingo.

[666] Okay.

[667] So he meets his wife, Veronica Duncan, at a golf club function, and they get married on November 20th, 1963.

[668] And when they get married, so Lord Lucan's finances when he was a young man, and he was gambling so much, it got a little iffy in there because he was just like going for it.

[669] And like, I'm in a boat race.

[670] I have to have an Aston Martin.

[671] You know, he was like, live in the life and spending all that money.

[672] So when he marries Veronica Duncan.

[673] Duncan, his father gives him what was called a marriage settlement.

[674] So he gets a big chunk of money to buy a house, to prepare for having kids, like this whole, so he's basically kind of like up in, up in the black again.

[675] Sexist.

[676] Got it.

[677] Two months after he gets married, I called him Old Man Lucan.

[678] Old Man Lucan dies of a stroke.

[679] And so John Bingham inherits 250 ,000 pounds and his father's titles, which are Earl of Lucan, Baron Lucan of Castle Bar, Baron Lucan of Melcombe, Lucan, and Baronet Bingham of Castle Bar.

[680] I don't know what any of this means.

[681] It's meaningless.

[682] So, cute, the mean.

[683] Emails.

[684] It's not meaningless.

[685] It's super meaningless.

[686] Don't shoot foxes, right, everybody?

[687] Okay.

[688] So the problem is that he has a very serious gambling problem.

[689] So at first, it was hot and cute, and he's James.

[690] bond and after a while it's like put the fucking backgammon down what are you doing um and he's spending still spending money like an aristocrat so he's like you know he's he's got a an open account at savile row tailors you know what i mean people are making too those suit clothing for him bespoke yeah look at you care i know i want to be rich really bad do you really bad really not just rich though i want to be well i want to be like lord lukin what would you be an aristocrat what would you do I guess I would just drink and smoke cigarettes all day.

[691] Because you can just do it at that point because...

[692] Yeah, you can kind of...

[693] Yeah, you can just kind of...

[694] Well, it's the same thing you can do if you were basically a bum.

[695] Remember that intervention where the woman had like inherited so much money that she was like, why should I not be an alcoholic?

[696] And then they were going to take her to a rehab that was like a 14 -hour, like a five -hour flight, but she insisted on getting a limo because she wanted to bring her cats with her.

[697] So she put her cats in the limo?

[698] No. Oh, like that was fantastic.

[699] she took a cat road trip yeah she like put cat boxes in the limit like she's me if i just had a shit head and like no one could say anything because like she wasn't going to lose anything because she was did it work did she get sober i don't know if there's maybe there's hopefully there's a follow -up i don't know man it's been i haven't i stopped watching that because it's real depressing it turns out she ate all those cats she got really drunk and then she got hungry and she ate those cats oh it's poor baby i mean sorry fucking no right feel Loving it.

[700] Left field.

[701] There's downside to being an addict.

[702] I think we all know this.

[703] We've tried to tell you over and over.

[704] Yeah.

[705] So he and his wife have three kids, George and Camilla, and a third one that for some reason is on this list.

[706] And some of the, you know, the youngest kid never matters.

[707] Am I wrong?

[708] Yeah, seriously.

[709] I'm living that life.

[710] That's why we're murder podcasters.

[711] Yeah, that's why we're doing what we do.

[712] Veronica is struggling, because she also has three kids in this very short amount of time, of course.

[713] So she's struggling with post -natal depression.

[714] Honey.

[715] And Lord Lucan takes her for treatment at a psychiatric clinic.

[716] She refused to be admitted, but she did agree to home visits from a psychiatrist and taking a course of an antidepressant.

[717] So she's trying to take care of it, but she won't, like, you know, really go take a full break or whatever.

[718] She's like, I can handle this.

[719] well then that combined with the pressures of maintaining their finances and his I mean he I read this thing I didn't include it but there was a thing of like how he would spend his days oh my god it's so hilarious because he would like get up and eat breakfast and then go to his gaming club and just gamble all afternoon yeah and you know he was probably drinking too of course and then he would come home and get dressed and then put on like his tuxedo to go out of cigarettes probably oh yeah and you can't wash that off after a while.

[720] And then he just went out to drink and eat and smoke and gamble more.

[721] That was just, that's all he did all the time.

[722] I would have, that's not post -snatal depression.

[723] That's fucking depression.

[724] Yeah.

[725] That she had.

[726] Because she was like, what the fuck.

[727] This is not what I fucking.

[728] So, went to finishing school for.

[729] So basically in the two weeks after a very strained family Christmas in 1972, Lord Luke had moved out.

[730] And then they get into this bitter custody battle and the justice awards custody to Veronica.

[731] Divorce didn't happen back then.

[732] Yeah, it wasn't good and I'm sure for aristocrats.

[733] You could push him off the couch.

[734] Elvis is ripping up Karen's notes.

[735] My precious writing.

[736] Okay, so she is awarded custody of the three kids and that's all he wanted.

[737] And so why would he want just to Fuck with her, right?

[738] Well, no, no, no, he really, I'm sure really loved his children and it was very important to him, but also, I think it was part of this thing that he didn't think she was a fit mother, knowing that she had postnatal depression.

[739] I think he was partly worried and then also partly he was an addict and needed to control things maybe, I don't know, there's something going on.

[740] He gets awarded like every other weekend visit and he gets really obsessive about it.

[741] So he starts spying on her.

[742] to prove she's an unfit mother.

[743] He's recording their phone conversations.

[744] He becomes fixated on her and what's happening.

[745] He also is, his drinking gets really bad and is gambling.

[746] He goes crazy with the gambling.

[747] And all of his friends are like he's in a downward spiral.

[748] And then all of a sudden, the week of November 7th in 1974, he seems to like suddenly be, pull it together.

[749] and he there's a couple firsthand stories of people who um like had dinner with him and he they tried to talk to him about what's going out with the kids and he changes the topic to politics and so they're like oh maybe he's rounded the corner maybe it's out of his system yeah um so on the evening of november 7th 1974 um he had a bunch of plans with people that he didn't he just didn't show up uh and that night the children's nanny Sandra Rivett puts the younger children to bed.

[750] And at about 8 .55, she asks Veronica if she'd like a cup of tea.

[751] And so she heads downstairs to the basement kitchen.

[752] So there, that's a fucking sweet -ass mansion.

[753] Yeah.

[754] I'll go down to the maid's kitchen.

[755] I'm not going to use your nice high class kitchen to make tea.

[756] So she goes downstairs to the basement kitchen to make Veronica some tea.

[757] and as she enters the room she is bludgeoned to death with a lead pipe a piece of bandaged lead pipe and her killer places her body in a canvas mail sack so meanwhile upstairs Lady Lucan wonders what's delaying the nanny so she walks down the first floor stairs to see what's happened and she calls from the top part of the stairs she calls down to Rivet and to see what's going on and the guy comes up and attacks her with the lead pipe as well.

[758] Oh my God.

[759] And she starts screaming for her life.

[760] The attacker tells her to shut up and that's when lady, Lukan knows, she tells the cops later, that she knows it's her husband.

[761] So she survives.

[762] This guy's got like a mask on or something?

[763] I think the lights were out.

[764] Like it was dark.

[765] So she's kind of calling down.

[766] She doesn't know what's going on and then this guy comes up.

[767] scary and she thinks she's just getting attacked and then she realizes it's her husband according to her um so they get into this fight she bites his fingers um she he throws her face down in the carpet and she man she manages to turn around and squeeze his testicles good girl releasing stephen just even just really felt that yeah um and causing him to release his grip on her throat and give up the fight uh she asks where rivet is and Lucan was at first evasive, then eventually admits that he just killed her.

[768] So what they believe is that he thinks, he thought it was Veronica walking into the basement kitchen.

[769] Oh, shit.

[770] He was trying to kill his wife.

[771] And he accidentally killed the nanny.

[772] So this is according to Lady Lucan.

[773] So Lady Lucan is terrified.

[774] She tells him she'll help him escape if he would just, well, she's trying to get.

[775] Okay.

[776] So she says, I'll help you escape.

[777] you just have to stay here for a couple days and hide out and allow my injuries to heal because she's been hit with the lead pipe and everything.

[778] Oh, my gosh.

[779] So, um, Lucan, uh, she walks upstairs.

[780] I'm sorry, Lord Lucan, the oldest daughter, um, wakes up.

[781] So he goes to put her to bed.

[782] And, um, uh, she, and then the wife, Veronica goes in to the bed.

[783] lays down she's bleeding and he puts down towels for her and like don't get don't get the bedding stained with blood weird so um uh he asks her does she have any barbiturates he goes into the bathroom to get a towel and supposedly clean her face and that's when lady lucan realizes that um he won't be able to hear her if he's in the bathroom yeah and so she runs out of the house with their kids still there though yeah but but she i think she knew that he didn't want that it was about her and the attack was about her right because she also did report earlier that he had um once hit her with a cane and once tried to push her down the stairs so there he had gotten physical with her before but he i think she trusted that he wasn't going to harm their children yeah that's crazy that's what it seemed like um so she runs out of the house um and she runs to a nearby public house called the plumber's arms oh let's when we're in england's go get a drink there we have to go to a pub called the plumber's arms yeah so what like big hairy arms hairy but like with a tattoo like what kind of bulldog tattoo is that yeah a bulldog would be good yeah or um an anchor of a course of a course an anchor or maybe just a just a queen elizabeth's face i mean she's a mad ass everybody loves her everyone loves okay okay okay So the police, they call the police, the police go to the house.

[784] But meanwhile, Lord Lucan has called his own mother and tells her of a terrible catastrophe that's happened at his wife's home.

[785] He tells his mother, you have to come here and get the children.

[786] Then he drives a borrowed car to his friend's house in Uckfield, East Sussex.

[787] Um, and then hours later, he leaves that property, leaves the car there, and he's never seen again and has never been seen since.

[788] No. Swear to God.

[789] No. So that car was found.

[790] He's the one missing?

[791] Yes.

[792] He's the one missing.

[793] He disappeared.

[794] He disappeared.

[795] No, this is, I was not expecting that.

[796] Yeah.

[797] James Bond is out and about.

[798] Dude.

[799] He, the car was found abandoned in New Haven.

[800] and the interior was stained with blood and the trunk had a piece boot for those of our friends in England had a piece of bandaged lead pipe similar to the one found at the crime scene so there's one that a nanny was killed with that was left at the crime scene and there's another one that's in this borrowed car and we don't know what why was all the blood in the car and we don't know what that lead he was covered in blood and I don't know if there were two there's no explanation is just, I'm not sure.

[801] Holy shit.

[802] So, uh, but then also, um, he left a letter to the owner of the car that said, my dear Michael.

[803] So he basically borrows this car from this guy.

[804] He's like, hey, can I borrow your car for a while and then just gets blood all in it, abandons it and he's crazy.

[805] And he says, my dear Michael, I have had a traumatic night of unbelievable coincidence.

[806] However, oh, have you?

[807] I won't bore you with anything or involve you except to say that when you come across my children, which I hope you will.

[808] Please tell them that you knew me and that all I cared about was them.

[809] The fact that a crooked solicitor and a rotten psychiatrist destroyed me between them will be of no importance to the children.

[810] I gave Bill Shand Kid, which is his brother -in -law.

[811] I gave Bill Shand Kid an account of what actually happened, but judging by my last effort in court, no one, yet alone a 67 -year -old judge, would believe, and I no longer care except that my children should be protected yours ever john so he's basically saying whatever happened at the house was some weird coincidence that he happened upon his excuses that and i think there was a it was in a different letter that he walked into the house and his wife was being attacked by an intruder which the wife is like no i'll tell you exactly how it happened like step by step yeah and then also you can trace it all back to the car and the blood and everything yes point the fucking way.

[812] So they put out a warrant for his arrest a couple days later.

[813] And in his absence, the inquest into Rivets' death named him as her murderer, which was the last time ever that Britain's coroner's court was ever allowed to do that.

[814] So they were basically like, this guy did it.

[815] Oh, without a trial.

[816] Yeah.

[817] So a thorough search of New Haven Downs was judged impossible.

[818] I don't know if that's what's New Haven Downs?

[819] What's a thorough search?

[820] What's anything in this fucking world?

[821] I pictured New Haven Downs to be just full of a bunch of brambles.

[822] Charming as fuck.

[823] It's like the Moors, but brambly.

[824] Brambles everywhere.

[825] Brambles and scones or scones.

[826] Scons.

[827] A partial search was made using tracker dogs, although all that was found were the skeletal remains of a judge who had disappeared years earlier.

[828] Oh, I'm sorry.

[829] What?

[830] So when they do search New Haven Downs, this impossible to search area, they find unrelated, unrelated.

[831] They find skeletal remains of a judge.

[832] All right.

[833] Maybe how about once a year you search New Haven Downs?

[834] Get some fucking puppies out there.

[835] Yet they love doing it.

[836] Give them a run around.

[837] It's fun for them.

[838] Find a judge.

[839] Police diverged search the harbor.

[840] So basically they went everywhere and tried to find to.

[841] find this guy.

[842] This guy's more important than a fucking judge.

[843] That's right.

[844] Clearly.

[845] He's a way bigger deal.

[846] He is among the top 10 backgammon players in the world.

[847] You have to find him.

[848] Must find him.

[849] Um, they don't find, so basically they can't find anything.

[850] They used, uh, infrared photography.

[851] They don't, I don't see where.

[852] They use smart cars.

[853] smart phones.

[854] Um, so a warrant for Luchin's arrest to answer charges of murdering Sandra Rivett and attempting to murder his wife was issued on Tuesday, November 12th, 1974, and descriptions of his appearance were issued to Interpol, so it could be intrancio now, and of course all across the UK.

[855] So apparently it's this, it's oh, since that time, been a great British pastime to theorize where Lord Lucan is and people love saying they saw him places.

[856] So the reports have been coming in pretty consistently year after year saying, I saw Lord Luke in here, or there.

[857] And so some of the places they have reported him, seeing him was as a hippie dropout in Goa, which I don't know.

[858] I don't know where that is.

[859] Where he was known, they said he was known there as Jungle Berry, as you do.

[860] The best nickname of all time.

[861] Is it?

[862] They said he was about backpacking on Mount Etna.

[863] Someone said they saw him working on a sheep station in the Australian outback.

[864] Yeah.

[865] Those all sound like things people who run away from life would do.

[866] Yeah.

[867] To get as far away as possible.

[868] Yeah.

[869] They're like trying to not have an identity anymore.

[870] Right.

[871] Which would make sense.

[872] Yeah.

[873] But John Aspinall, who was the owner of the Claremont Gaming Club, which is the place he used to go like around lunchtime every single day, said, told the news, I find it difficult to imagine him in Brazil or Haiti as a fugitive.

[874] I don't think he has the capacity to adapt.

[875] Which is kind of rough.

[876] There was also a rumor.

[877] Aspinol owned a private zoo.

[878] And so there was a rumor that he was cut up and fed to the tigers at that zoo.

[879] And Aspinol, when told that rumor, responded, my tigers are only fed the choices cuts.

[880] Do you really think they're going to eat stringy old lucky?

[881] oh my god the most plausible theory is that he drowned himself in the channel yeah that's what most people think yeah but here's this is just an interesting um another coincidental thing um 13 years later so when they had um that nanny uh the Sandra rivet was their nanny but they had had a nanny right before her.

[882] And her name was Christabel.

[883] I can't find her last name.

[884] Bell.

[885] Christa Bell Bell.

[886] And you don't see it.

[887] But her name was Christabel something or other.

[888] And turns out she was married to an economist named Nicholas Boyce.

[889] And on October 10th, 1985, Nicholas Boyce was sent to prison for dismembering his wife and dumping her pieces of her body around London.

[890] So it was her.

[891] The nanny one before this Oh, she got cut up.

[892] Also was murdered by her fancy husband.

[893] So fancy husbands are just fucking running them up.

[894] They went nuts so crazy.

[895] Sure.

[896] Which I thought was oh and also they convicted him of manslaughter, but not murder.

[897] and he was sentenced to six years in jail.

[898] Oh, that's no big deal.

[899] Man's the honor.

[900] Just kill her and throw her arms and legs around the city and then.

[901] Yeah, so.

[902] Cannot.

[903] That's the story.

[904] Oh, sorry, it was, Christabel 32 was a former governess of the children of Lord Lucan, who vanished without a trace after another nanny was battered to death at his home.

[905] Do you think he did it?

[906] What, killed Lukin, or whatever the fuck?

[907] Killed the second nanny?

[908] The first nanny.

[909] Oh, hell yes.

[910] wait both nannies no no no no the second one got killed by your husband oh okay later okay that was later 13 years later got a second nanny gets killed in what is a coincidence but is super creepy because what the fuck is going on i thought it was the first okay yeah no but the first i'm sure the way everything adds up it's just basically where did he go after did he immediately kill himself or did he actually go he's db cooper yeah did he shave that that that luxuriant mustache off and go live somewhere for a while.

[911] You could go anywhere you want back then.

[912] And also with all his money.

[913] And charming and you know, Miss Dapper.

[914] He probably went to like Monte Carlo or something.

[915] That's what I was thinking too.

[916] How old is he now?

[917] How old would he be?

[918] He'd be dead.

[919] He's dead now.

[920] He was proclaimed to be dead.

[921] No, no, but like how old would he be?

[922] Like in his the article that I said where they proclaimed him dead, I think they said he was like would have been 81 or 82.

[923] That's livable, especially if you're living the fucking backgammon high life and fucking monte carlo backgamut doesn't that take that much out of you no yeah no and if you're just pickled with gin you can live for a really long time i bet you he's still alive i mean it'd be pretty cool we should make a rule that people have to confess stuff on their death like on their deathbed they have to confess things yeah like you're not yeah that'd be nice wouldn't it just to solve a couple mysteries yeah like don't take shit to your grave yeah you're being a selfish dick so that's my good times a high class murder mystery from England.

[924] Never heard that one.

[925] Please let us know all the mistakes from that one as soon as you can.

[926] Or no. Or go you know, every time you get mad at this podcast, go give three dollars to Wikipedia.

[927] We're going to solve all of Wikipedia's problems.

[928] They're going to be like, thank you.

[929] We got an influx of thousands and thousands of dollars.

[930] So much money.

[931] Ready for the Summer Hill Road murders.

[932] Dude, this is one of these, this is one of those ones I've wanted to do for so long.

[933] All right.

[934] Quick sips.

[935] Quick sip.

[936] So, Fayetteville, North Carolina.

[937] It's near Fort Bragg.

[938] Let's talk about 1985.

[939] Okay.

[940] All right.

[941] So that Sunday, May 12th, an army sergeant named Bob Seafelt and his wife, noticed that the papers were piling up on their neighbor's doorstep.

[942] And they were like, what's going on?

[943] That's bad.

[944] And you know what?

[945] We haven't seen her in a couple days and her car is in the driveway.

[946] Oh.

[947] The people that were living there was a woman named Catherine Eastburn.

[948] She was the mother to five -year -old Kara and three -year -old Aaron, as well as Jana, who was 21 months.

[949] her husband, Gary Eastburn, was away attending an Air Force captain in training school in Alabama.

[950] So he was out of town.

[951] They knew that she's not fucking around what's going on.

[952] They heard a baby crying when they went to look at the house.

[953] They look in a window and see Jana, the 21 -month -old, standing by herself in her crib.

[954] Her arms were outstretched to them.

[955] For some reason, fucking Bob is like, Let's wait until the cops get here before we break in.

[956] The cops get there.

[957] They break in.

[958] They find Jana.

[959] She's severely dehydrated.

[960] So dehydrated.

[961] And when I fucking, I remember hearing this a while back that I think about it all the time.

[962] Her teeth were black.

[963] Oh.

[964] And she had hours left to live.

[965] Oh, my God.

[966] I know.

[967] They pass her through the window to the neighbor.

[968] And then they go to look through the rest of the house.

[969] So in the master bedroom, they find the five -year -old Aaron lying on the floor by the bed.

[970] Her throat's been cut.

[971] On the other side of the bed is Katie, the mom.

[972] She's bound with rope.

[973] Her blouse and bra are pulled apart.

[974] She's naked from the waist down.

[975] Her throat is cut and she has multiple stab wounds to her body.

[976] I know.

[977] Fucked up shit.

[978] Yeah.

[979] Two doors down from the bedroom they find Kara.

[980] the three -year -old it's really awful she's stabbed to death as well she's under her blanket it looks like she's almost like hiding under her blanket and she's stabbed to death and also Katie the mom was raped all three had severed throats oh I know guess what day it was that they found her mother's day in 1985 all right so the witnesses so one day neighbor says he saw a man leave their home at about 3 a .m. after the murders are thought to have taken place based on, you know, uh, the autopsy.

[981] She said she saw a white chavette park near the crime scene.

[982] Then a man who lived in the area named Patrick Cohn and approaches and says that he saw a man leaving the residence three nights before when the murder was supposed to happen.

[983] Um, and he says, quote, I was walking home from my girlfriend's house about 3 .30 a .m. As I was walking, I saw a white chivet parked on the road.

[984] Then I saw this white dude walking down the lady's driveway.

[985] I passed right by him and he said, I'm getting an early start this morning or something like that.

[986] Then I watched him get in his white chavet and drive off.

[987] He describes the man very thoroughly.

[988] He's six foot four, blonde.

[989] He had on a black beanie, a black member's only jacket.

[990] White shirt, blue jeans had was like carrying a bag over his shoulder.

[991] it just makes me think of that did you see that graphic that infographic where it said like in your life you'll walk by a murderer 36 times yes that's amazing that was one of his 36 I think so or so in the 30s it was so high I know for that it just made me think of that oh that's scary it's horrifying so three days after the murders the cops find out that three that a couple days before the family had been killed they had put in a classified ad to get their dog adopted because they were leading the country.

[992] So Katie is by herself at home and a man answers the ad and comes and gets the dog during the day.

[993] And they're like, who the fuck is this dude?

[994] Here's a composite sketch.

[995] They put it on the fucking news.

[996] The man who adopted the dog, his name is Tim Hennis, was watching the news that night and was like, shit.

[997] that's the dog we adopted and I look a lot like that sketch so he goes to the police he answers all their questions he doesn't get an attorney he gives them samples of hair blood semen everything he just he's really cooperative but he drives a white chavette oh no yeah they let him go because they don't have enough evidence to arrest him but later the night they they go back with a warrant for him and arrest him him.

[998] So the night that they thought the women got, or the, the mom and the kids got killed, so Tim Hennis had dropped his wife and their daughter off at the, at his parent -in -laws, then he drives to an ex -girlfriend's house, propositions her, she shoots him down.

[999] He says he went home, ate dinner, watched TV, and went to bed.

[1000] The Friday morning, they thought that was Thursday night.

[1001] The morning after, he takes a single item to the dry cleaners, a black member's only jacket.

[1002] Oh, dude.

[1003] The only things that were stolen from the house, it seems, are a debit card and some cash.

[1004] And so, $150 is taken out twice.

[1005] That's the limit.

[1006] So $300.

[1007] And it turns out that Tim Hennis is $300 short on rent, which he pays the Monday after these murders.

[1008] then a woman identifies him as being the man she saw at the same time that she was there at the ATM All right, so a forensic expert goes in there he six months later finds a condom package undiscovered by the police underneath the dresser so he fucking finds a condom wrapper So according to him and his forensic expertise he says that the condoms suggest consensual sex because very barely did rapists carry condoms to commit their violent acts, which I want to fucking call bullshit on immediately.

[1009] Well, yeah, in the 80s, they probably thought that.

[1010] But of course, you don't want to leave DNA or anything behind.

[1011] I just don't think, I just hate that argument that, well, if there was a condom on then, you had time to fight or it was consensual somehow.

[1012] Oh, no. You know what I mean?

[1013] Like, that, that pisses me off.

[1014] Well, yeah, that's insanity.

[1015] That's what he says.

[1016] He said that, so the man Paul Stambach concludes that the murders were committed by two assailants and that the little girls might have been killed because they could identify the killer, but he says, someone said that they were killed because they could identify the killer, but he says that the girls were asleep when they got killed.

[1017] Okay.

[1018] So this dude, Tim, Hennis, goes to trial and the jury returns with a guilty verdict and he's sentenced to three life sentences.

[1019] Oh, shit.

[1020] Yeah.

[1021] No, no, no, I'm sorry.

[1022] He sentenced to death three times.

[1023] Oh, my God.

[1024] Yeah.

[1025] Because they're pissed.

[1026] They're like, you killed little girls.

[1027] Yeah.

[1028] Setting an example.

[1029] Right.

[1030] When he's getting booked, he receives a postcard.

[1031] This guy, Tim Hennis, from someone calling themselves Mr. X, and it says, Dear Mr. Hennis, I did the crime, I murdered the Eastburns, sorry you're doing the time.

[1032] I'll be safely out of North Carolina when you read this.

[1033] Thanks, Mr. X. Fuck you, Mr. X. Right?

[1034] Who is that?

[1035] And the prosecution got that too.

[1036] Who is that?

[1037] Who is that, Mr. X?

[1038] So he's on death row for two years.

[1039] And then the defense is arguing to get him out of, you know, to get his conviction overturned.

[1040] They argue that the crime scene photos that the jury saw were so gruesome and awful that it swayed the jury's decision.

[1041] And his conviction is overturned in 1989.

[1042] And they, he gets sent back for a retrial.

[1043] So he's convicted and then it's overturned and he goes back for a retrial.

[1044] But sorry, but.

[1045] How can a picture sway, like just having to look at that?

[1046] There was no way that they could then go from there and make a decision.

[1047] They put up these huge photos of it, you know, over his head and were hammering, you know, the crime scene photos, the autopsy photos of little girls were hammering at home and saying, you know, there was no, there was no way the jury would not want to convict someone for doing this stuff.

[1048] Well, and also the jury was traumatized by having to be a part of that.

[1049] Yeah, I feel so bad for those people.

[1050] So, I mean, what do you think about that being overturned on those, based on that?

[1051] I mean, you know, it just immediately makes me think of the staircase and, like, those people where when we think of, like, the prosecutor, you give them all this credit.

[1052] Like, you think, oh, these are going to be people who are presenting a fair case fairly, as opposed to people who have immediate bias and want to win their case and will do anything to do it, yeah.

[1053] Totally.

[1054] I mean, and if you think about the evidence against him, we really don't have anything other than, you know, some witness statements and the fact that he was there a couple days beforehand, getting the dog.

[1055] Yeah.

[1056] He has no alibi that night.

[1057] It's bad news for him because it's almost like you were presenting it in a way where I was like, oh, this poor guy.

[1058] But then the more things you said, I was like, it's totally that guy.

[1059] How could you, it's so obvious.

[1060] Yeah.

[1061] It's the Occam's Razor thing where it's like.

[1062] this there's no it can't be a coincidence well that's why i love this case it's fucking it gets worse okay don't worry it gets worse so at his second trial all the witnesses are wishy -washy and the prosecution argues this and that you know and they break under pressure and so it's kind of all convoluted um and then the defense for tim hennis were able to find a dude who, okay, so this dude would walk the neighborhood late at night.

[1063] He was 6 '4, same height as Tim Hennis.

[1064] And he admitted to always wearing a member's only jacket, a black beanie, a white t -shirt, and dark corduroy pants, and carrying a book bag over his shoulder.

[1065] He walks in the courtroom.

[1066] He's a spitting fucking image of Tim Hennis.

[1067] No. Yes.

[1068] No. Yes.

[1069] All right.

[1070] Spitting image.

[1071] Somehow this dude, A, agreed to fucking.

[1072] and do this.

[1073] Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

[1074] Wouldn't you be like, I think it's time for me to move to San Francisco?

[1075] Yeah, goodbye.

[1076] So, Tim Hennis acquitted on all accounts.

[1077] Conviction overturned, acquitted.

[1078] Now, sorry, but they're not, they didn't prosecute that guy.

[1079] They were, they were just saying it's possible.

[1080] Yeah, that's something, they saw someone else.

[1081] They kind of like, all the, like, all the eyewitnesses they were able to discredit for whatever reason.

[1082] Okay.

[1083] So there was, you know, nothing really.

[1084] tying him to the murder and members only jackets were crazy popular in 1985 that's that's true 15 tall blonde men wearing members only jackets oh my god there are so many everywhere yeah okay let's go all right this is 89 let's go to 2007 okay DNA is a thing now thank god thank fucking god so there's DNA inside Kate, the mom, who had been raped, although they didn't, they didn't specifically say that she had been forcibly raped.

[1085] Right, because the condom theory.

[1086] But there was semen inside of her.

[1087] Right.

[1088] So the condom could have nothing to fucking do with any of this.

[1089] The results of the DNA test from the semen inside of Kate showed with 12 million to, one certainty that the semen belong to Tim Hennis.

[1090] Oh, no. Right, but he had already been acquitted.

[1091] Oh, no. So, motherfuckin' double jeopardy.

[1092] Right?

[1093] So double jeopardy is prohibited by the fifth amendment.

[1094] It means that you can't get tried for something that you'd already been acquitted for.

[1095] Yes.

[1096] Which seems like it needs to be fucking fixed and it's stupid, but...

[1097] No, no, no. I mean, considering DNA now, like in this situation, but that's, no, it's a good law because it's like saying they can't just keep on coming at you and being like, we did, we believe it's you.

[1098] Like if they've proven.

[1099] Yeah, if they, if we've gone through it.

[1100] But in a perfect system, when those prosecutors go to the judge with new evidence, the judge will, will, will, you know, judge that evidence and, and say whether or not it's, you know, it's, it's, it's worth a new trial.

[1101] But they'll never be a perfect.

[1102] because it's a human system.

[1103] I know.

[1104] That's the problem with life.

[1105] So you can't just keep on going like, well, here we're going to do it again.

[1106] And this time it's going to be, because then it could just be like if you had a crazy prosecutor that won't leave you alone.

[1107] Well, they did it a third time.

[1108] They took him to trial.

[1109] How?

[1110] Well, I'll fucking tell you.

[1111] How I ask if as if I'll never find out.

[1112] I don't know.

[1113] I don't know.

[1114] This is the end of my story.

[1115] Okay.

[1116] So Tim Hennis had been a soldier in the U .S. Army.

[1117] So the the state can't try him, but the army can.

[1118] Oh shit.

[1119] The military can.

[1120] Because he'd been a soldier the U .S. Army could, and the federal government is a sovereign authority separate from the individual states that make up the country.

[1121] Okay, so Tim at this time, Tim Hennis, who's 49 years old, retired as fuck from the army.

[1122] Just chill laxing.

[1123] shill on his fuck.

[1124] Murdering entire family.

[1125] So he's retired, and this is a big fucking point of contention.

[1126] He is ordered out of retirement and back into active duty just so they could court -martial him for the murders.

[1127] Shit.

[1128] Seems unfair.

[1129] Right.

[1130] I mean, just if devil's advocate, if he was innocent.

[1131] Unprecedented.

[1132] Yeah.

[1133] And this argument of like, who has final say, are you bigger than the fucking, you know, it's government shit.

[1134] It's government shit.

[1135] If the government wants you, they're going to get you.

[1136] You fucked.

[1137] So at the fucking court martial trial, his attorney, Sam Hannes' attorney brings up the possibility because they had found semen in her vagina that maybe they had had consensual sex, even though he had never admitted to that.

[1138] And he didn't say that.

[1139] The attorney did.

[1140] And the fucking jury was like, are you, like, that's what you're bringing up now.

[1141] So they find him guilty on three counts of premeditated murder.

[1142] but guess what?

[1143] The statute of limitations had expired on rape so he didn't get Can we please talk about statute of limitations on rape?

[1144] I feel like they're getting rid of that.

[1145] I feel like there's some states where they've gotten rid of it.

[1146] Yeah.

[1147] It's in action, I believe.

[1148] It's just, I just want to bring it up how fucking disgusting that is.

[1149] No, you're exactly right.

[1150] It just makes me sick.

[1151] In the same exact way that it's disgusting that Mike Pence wants women to have funerals for their feet for miscarriages.

[1152] Miscarriages.

[1153] It's truly insanity.

[1154] It's hurtful and mean and fucking.

[1155] It's spiteful and it's assuming it's just so controlling and insane.

[1156] It's so controlling.

[1157] Okay.

[1158] Found guilty.

[1159] So now he's on death row, like right fucking now.

[1160] This was in 2010.

[1161] He's on death row in an army facility in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.

[1162] Okay.

[1163] Now let's get to have a couple.

[1164] couple random things before we decide everything.

[1165] Okay.

[1166] Okay.

[1167] So in his case, there's no blood, fingerprints, or fiber evidence that connects him to the murder.

[1168] And he has an alibi for the ATM visit, which is a little shaky.

[1169] I'm not saying he didn't do it.

[1170] I'm just saying like, here's some weird shit, because I really don't know.

[1171] Right.

[1172] Two former FBI assistant directors released a report concluding that the unit that had tested his DNA and found that, it was in her vaginal swab that they had overstated, misreported, or withheld blood evidence in dozens of cases, including three that ended in executions.

[1173] Oh, no. They, the, okay, this quote, they had to throw out cases and cases because the results were either doctored, wrong, or covered up.

[1174] The lab was shown to be a total tool for the state's prosecutors.

[1175] Oh, no. right wait and this was in sorry this was in north carolina uh yeah okay or kansas pick one i don't want to be wrong you started in north carolina yeah but now but he's in kansas oh because of the army got it got it um all right so let's really so basically they're just like we're going to send this off to here and get exactly what we want back yeah and they're proven to be incorrect but we're not going to check back in with those crimes and i'm pretty sure those swabs were held in a box that were unrefrigerated, that on the box of evidence said Tim Hennis' name, not the name of the murder victims.

[1176] Like they were already fucking targeting him.

[1177] They were focusing on him.

[1178] Yes.

[1179] This is what they wanted to find.

[1180] Okay.

[1181] All right.

[1182] So finally, I just want to talk about Julie, who was the family babysitter of the three little girls.

[1183] When they interviewed her, she told the cops.

[1184] that the residents had been targeted with harassing phone calls, some of the sexual nature, and she said, two other things, that her stepbrothers strongly resembled Tim Hennis and even showed them photos of it, and that she had been assisting the vice squad and setting up bus for local drug dealers.

[1185] And she even said on one occasion that she'd been followed home from the Eastburn residence by an angry drug dealer.

[1186] So this is like a random, okay, but here's.

[1187] the coolest thing.

[1188] Not coolest, but like more.

[1189] So she admits to her fascination.

[1190] She's like a 16 -year -old, a fascination with Dr. Jeffrey McDonald.

[1191] Fatal Vision.

[1192] Is that what's that?

[1193] It's the one who was accused, right?

[1194] Yeah.

[1195] Yeah.

[1196] So he's a military officer.

[1197] He claims a band of drug crazed, long -haired hippies broken to his home while he was sleeping on the couch, murdered his pregnant wife and two and five -year -old daughters.

[1198] Sounds familiar, right?

[1199] yeah um while he uh upstairs he's convicted of the slings sentenced to death at the time of the murders the family it was 1970 so it was clearly you know 15 years difference but at the time of the murders the macdonald family lived four and a half miles from the fucking eastburn home what yeah and this girl who was the babysitter of these three little girls was fascinated and writing him letters and they were communicating in prison and her fucking siblings looked exactly like these guys and she believed he was innocent they wrote all the time they had the DEA had set up a drug deal using Julie this girl Julie and the victim's house that weekend that fell through and the murders happened no way right well she was obsessed with him apparently she was obsessed with Jeffrey McDonald's yeah Dr. Jeffrey McDonald's yeah wait that the babysitter's like what a rich life she's living because she's setting up like she's trying to do like drug stings yeah I mean and she's 16 yeah Jesus Christ I know right now also does she was that a secret to the family that she's like setting these stings up for I don't think the family knew but she like fucking blabbed to the cops immediately about all this stuff oh my fucking God I know right like it's just too crazy that that the murders are so similar.

[1200] What's your theory?

[1201] Like, with all of that?

[1202] Oh, my God.

[1203] I'm just saying, do you think he's innocent or guilty?

[1204] You know me. I can go fucking either way.

[1205] I think it's that thing of like, I don't know if he's involved or not, but I don't know if he should be in prison or not.

[1206] I don't know.

[1207] I don't know.

[1208] It's too circumstantial to me. And the fact that they didn't get DNA until 2007, especially if there was a condom wrapper and that was their theory.

[1209] Was it a common wrapper or was it a used condom?

[1210] I think it was a condom wrapper.

[1211] So it was just basically proof that there was a condom somewhere in play.

[1212] And the forensic guy was like, I don't know the sex life between the husband and wife, but this was there.

[1213] Right.

[1214] So if you're introducing a condom wrapper and semen.

[1215] Oh, and, oh no, wait, hold on.

[1216] There was like a towel that had blood on it.

[1217] There were all these, there was a shoe print that was a size nine and Tim was a size 13 in blood.

[1218] There was all these, it points to at least, I know there are more than one, there's more than one murderer.

[1219] Or more than one person.

[1220] So either he did it with someone else or, you know, someone thought there was money in the house.

[1221] They knew this woman was alone.

[1222] The thing, to me, the idea.

[1223] idea of killing children, slashing, stabbing children to death and slashing their, that's a person who is beyond, right?

[1224] That's a person that is, that's a person that's not motivated by money or drugs because I feel like those people, or that has to be a person that's maybe on drugs, bear men.

[1225] And then you think about the fact that they left the 21 month old alive because she couldn't identify anyone and you think, okay, at first I was like, well, they must know the assailant.

[1226] They must know the killer.

[1227] Otherwise, he wouldn't have had to, you know, if they just went in there to rob and rape and even kill the mother.

[1228] Right.

[1229] They, unless, but then the forensic dude said that they were sleeping, which I don't completely buy it because I guess she was like cowering under her Star Wars blanket.

[1230] I know, which is heartbreaking.

[1231] Well, yeah, I mean, it's like you don't, why, why?

[1232] You don't kill children if you're just.

[1233] Right, because even if they, even burglars are just like, I just want.

[1234] to steal shit.

[1235] You don't kill children.

[1236] You don't go from from stealing fucking money to killing children.

[1237] Right.

[1238] And and you don't even if you're retaliating against someone like a stool pigeon who is this 16 year old girl, what does a five year old have to do with that?

[1239] And then and who has the fucking like ice colds in their veins to be able to kill two children and the mother?

[1240] And then why would you leave the third child?

[1241] Like it all of of it is like ran so random it just to me what makes sense is that the the girl told information to the wrong people maybe she had nothing to do with it and she was obsessed with it i mean maybe she did the fact that she was obsessed with this killer who killed who maybe killed you know and that's a whole other fucking my favorite murder because we i think we both talked about that one how errol morris thinks he's innocent yeah yeah i mean that's a whole yeah fucking episode but it's too similar to the fucking murderer she was obsessed with.

[1242] Right.

[1243] And maybe he's not the murderer.

[1244] And or innocent man she's obsessed with.

[1245] Because there is the...

[1246] But they're still so similar.

[1247] Yes.

[1248] Very similar.

[1249] That's crazy.

[1250] Now, it's such a personal thing to stab somebody to death.

[1251] It's such an angry thing and such a...

[1252] As we all know, that's like a personal attack.

[1253] Has the husband in any way been introduced into this mix?

[1254] No. Gary is a fucking saint and a good guy he he and his he raised jana she's fucking amazing and wonderful like he he has nothing to do with right right okay for sure just just i know it seems like he should and you'd look into it but i don't i really don't think he does they always you know yeah husband the husband's the first totally and then i wonder like okay so stabbing is a really personal thing and that but that's that's not as gruesome as something like slitting someone's throat.

[1255] Like those are two very different fucking actions.

[1256] Oh, but I would argue it's more gruesome because you can stabbing.

[1257] Because it's repeated whereas slitting someone's throat, you can do it and walk away and know that they're going to bleed out and die.

[1258] Yeah, but have you ever like punch someone and you're like, I really, like, mid punch, you're like, I don't want to do this and say you kind of do it like weekly?

[1259] Like week.

[1260] No?

[1261] No. I mean, I've never punched anyone, I don't think.

[1262] Oh.

[1263] Go ahead.

[1264] Hit me in the face, Carrie.

[1265] Let's do an experiment right now.

[1266] But I mean, wasn't it multiple, I mean, this is insane.

[1267] To cut someone's throat hard enough to fucking kill them, I feel like takes more effort than someone who doesn't really want to be doing this.

[1268] You know what I mean?

[1269] Like, I know a dude who got fucking...

[1270] Right, but if you don't want to be doing it, you're not going to then lightly stab multiple times.

[1271] Like, that's the thing.

[1272] It wasn't, if it were, to me, a slashing someone's throat is similar to it.

[1273] It's like you don't have a gun.

[1274] It's similar to like a kill shot in the back of the head where you're just getting it over with.

[1275] Yeah, you must incapacitate them by stabbing them.

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] And then you slip their throat to just fucking end it.

[1278] But the stabbing part is the part where you get involved.

[1279] And that's why, why would you even go through that unless you want to?

[1280] Yeah, unless you're okay with the idea of fucking stabbing a human.

[1281] Also, she kind of looked like my mom.

[1282] The mom?

[1283] Kate did, yeah.

[1284] had that like 70's mom hair yeah yeah sorry go on no no no no no I'm just thinking like it's just so crazy the fact that they had two witnesses for a person that was leaving the house at 3 a .m you know what I mean and also how can it be that many coincidences where it's like he was there he had the same car he had the same clothes he went there a couple days before knew she was alone in the house yeah that's not good for him I don't think so either it's it doesn't the coincidences that would have to happen for that to happen are fucking insane he gets what people think online like websloots is like the coolest fucking website and they're like discussing it which is all over um killing season by the way it's they're like they talk about websliss the whole that's awesome yeah so they're like well he went to his ex -girlfriend's house that night got turned down for boning and was like horny as fuck knew a woman who was home alone went over there she turned him down and he fucking flipped yeah that's that's the theory yeah and he's like enraged at women he's like on a mission but he's never according to everyone else the rest of his life he's been a fucking decent human being right he does have some some check forging uh charges but that's not the same thing is oh but that's something that's that's well it's not a totally clean record that's not being like a decent being a human being that means check forging is like you're willing to cheat to get money yeah that's something i feel like that's the way a lot some people start yeah and then you need to cover your tracks and shit yeah oh my god i don't know that's crazy i don't fucking know and horrible in so many ways those poor little babies oh that's what i wanted to end on actually is that i wanted to end with talking about the victims because it's like I don't want to end on this fucking dick.

[1285] So Gary, the dad, the father and the dad, the tombstones that he had them etched with.

[1286] So, um, so Aaron, dude, do, do, okay, so, Aaron, who's three years old, he had tiny dancer written on her tombstone.

[1287] Um, for Kara, who was five, he had daddy's little shadow.

[1288] And for Catherine, his wife, he had, you were the sunshine of, my life i just wanted i just didn't want to end on something that wasn't tragically sad i just wanted to mention them at the end no totally you know what i mean of course i mean yes absolutely but no that's karen please what please tell me what happened okay here's what happened please oh my god that guy got a dog and that dog was a piece of shit and he was pretty pissed off yeah and that's it this theory falls apart.

[1289] No, this is, that's maddening and it's the kind of thing when it introduces the idea that DNA evidence can't be trusted, that the system can't be trusted, that an entire prosecutor's office can't be trusted, then it doesn't really matter what answers you come up with because nothing ever feels like an answer.

[1290] To me, the period on the sentence is that there is so many other DNA hits in that house that there's no way that the story they're telling us is what happened.

[1291] Blood on a towel from like after killing them.

[1292] It looks like it was cleaned up.

[1293] There's a pubic hair in the fucking living room.

[1294] There's bloody footprints.

[1295] There's fibers and DNA under their under two of their fingernails that don't match to him.

[1296] Oh.

[1297] There's DNA under their fingernails.

[1298] And for some reason, they refuse to put it through CODIS.

[1299] That's very weird.

[1300] Isn't it?

[1301] Because they don't want to introduce something that doesn't match.

[1302] Oh, man. Hey.

[1303] So, yeah, that's the Summer Hill Road murders that has fucking stuck with me for years and years.

[1304] That's crazy.

[1305] That's amazing.

[1306] Yeah.

[1307] Wow.

[1308] Hi.

[1309] Hi, how are you?

[1310] I'm ruined.

[1311] How are you?

[1312] Yeah, not great.

[1313] No. Well, fascinating, though.

[1314] Yeah, isn't it?

[1315] Well, because they are, I just was reading something recently about how, I think it's the hair evidence.

[1316] Was it hair evidence?

[1317] Something is becoming more reliable than fingerprint.

[1318] Something's more reliable?

[1319] Yeah.

[1320] They're starting to say the fingerprint evidence might not be as reliable as they thought.

[1321] Oh, my God.

[1322] Basically, I think, obviously we know that forensic science is still developing.

[1323] Oh, my God.

[1324] Yeah.

[1325] But I just wish it would move ahead quick so we could just find out.

[1326] Because that's the confidence of DNA evidence being the final word.

[1327] Yeah.

[1328] That's why everyone goes, okay, well, sorry, but it's the evidence.

[1329] So goodbye.

[1330] Nothing we can do about it.

[1331] Instead of knowing that humans deal with that DNA from the moment it is picked up as evidence at the scene, it's being picked up by a human to when it's tested in the lab.

[1332] To a lab being like owned by the prosecutor's office.

[1333] It's like, that's just horrifying.

[1334] I, this is why I think that double jeopardy in, in the age of DNA and retesting and the Innocence Project and all this, we might need to rethink that.

[1335] I don't think so.

[1336] No. Well, because it's like saying you get the one chance.

[1337] Well, it's, yeah, so it's so shitty that like, you know, all these, all these defense attorneys, or I'm sorry, all these prosecutors and cops, you know, when they can't bring a trial, they can't bring someone to trial because they don't have the body, you know, so they have to wait until they find the body right it's just dude i don't know so you let this person go free or do you try to fucking do you try without a body to convict them i mean yeah you have to do something yeah and if it doesn't if it doesn't go well then in 10 years when the DNA can be tested or the body is found and the DNA is tested and it matches then you should be able to fucking retry them i disagree I know.

[1338] Punch me in the face.

[1339] You'll see.

[1340] That'll prove it.

[1341] All right.

[1342] Forensic scientists out there.

[1343] Keep doing what you're doing.

[1344] Angels.

[1345] Shout out.

[1346] Tell us things that we did wrong.

[1347] Yeah, we don't know what the fuck we're talking about.

[1348] It sounds cool, though.

[1349] Ours are all just feelings.

[1350] So many feelings.

[1351] Do you want to say a good thing from your week?

[1352] Do I have one?

[1353] Do I have a good thing from my week?

[1354] What do you have?

[1355] I can't think, no, go.

[1356] That's like when you're trying to order in a restaurant.

[1357] It's like, no, you can go ahead.

[1358] You go first.

[1359] You go first.

[1360] Okay, tune them out.

[1361] Tune amounts for me in.

[1362] God.

[1363] Well, you know, we, last night, Alison Agassi and I went and saw the movie Delicateson, which is, um.

[1364] Oh, that's a good movie.

[1365] It's from like the late 80s, I think, or the early 90s.

[1366] Yeah, that's a fucking art house film.

[1367] It's a total art house film.

[1368] And we saw it at SinaFamily.

[1369] I guess SinaFamily would be my thing of the week because it makes me feel smart to go there and like a film person.

[1370] I'm into film.

[1371] And but then also they have just amazing movies where when you're sitting there, you go, oh, that's why you have to see these movies on the big screen.

[1372] Yeah.

[1373] And Delicatessen was like the greatest.

[1374] That's great.

[1375] I guess, well, last week was Thanksgiving.

[1376] And I guess just.

[1377] my family and I had the like lamest best Thanksgiving and it was awesome and so stupid and not fake and my like year old nephew is there and he's the best fucking thing I've ever seen in my life kids are the greatest oh he's an angel baby as is my six year old nephew but you know he's not a baby no he's moved into a different area yeah but he's great too so I guess nephews okay nephews nice yeah all right well rate review subscribe yeah please I mean we're not that's not just fucking lip service please actually do that that's not our lip service to you uh fake asking we're genuinely yeah if you don't mind that'd be great um and just and just say sexy and don't get murdered goodbye elvis you want a cookie oh you want a cookie he was sleeping okay bye okay bye