380 - We Definitely Frenched

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] That's Georgia Hard Star.

[3] Thanks.

[4] That's Karen Kilcarra.

[5] You're welcome.

[6] We're back.

[7] We're back from our little month off or May off.

[8] We took a May off.

[9] That's right.

[10] We pieced out and how was your vacation?

[11] My vacation was gorgeous and luxurious.

[12] I went to Italy for the first time ever.

[13] Oh, my God.

[14] And it was, everything you've heard about Italy isn't true.

[15] What do you think I heard about Italy?

[16] What if it, stop gossiping about Italy?

[17] What if I was like the person that actually went to Italy and didn't have the most amazing time of their life?

[18] I mean, it's really hyped up, you know?

[19] I think it might be, it might need to be de -influenced.

[20] No, every single thing about that country is perfection, what it looks like, what it sounds, like what it tastes like, what the people look like.

[21] I'm telling you, the most good -looking people who, yes, it's their job to be of service to you.

[22] Most of the time, that's like what the entire industry of the country is besides making the best food, producing the best food items.

[23] But there's like, it's also a very matriarchal society.

[24] So there's this kind of intrinsic love and appreciation of women just at the outset.

[25] Wow.

[26] That I really recommend any woman that's kind of feeling low on her emotional fuel cell.

[27] Go to Italy.

[28] Okay.

[29] You will be appreciated in ways that you thought were no longer possible for you.

[30] Wow.

[31] Karen got her groove back, it sounds like.

[32] I mean, I'm just telling you, people should be nicer to women and female presenting human beings in this country.

[33] I think it's very obvious at this point in time.

[34] Yeah.

[35] But to go to a place where they're like, hey, yeah, what's up, ladies?

[36] And it's, you know what I mean?

[37] And it feels like good and right.

[38] And they've got a gleam in their eye.

[39] Nice.

[40] Man, it's nice.

[41] That sounds amazing.

[42] I went to the equally overhyped Paris, city of Paris.

[43] How was it?

[44] Was there any, like, were there any, like, demonstrations near where you were?

[45] Oh, no. I think, like, everything, all of the protesting and stuff, I'd, like, kind of just died down.

[46] But there was, like, some, like, boarded up windows and stuff that you have, like, businesses that you could tell had been smashed in some protests and stuff.

[47] But other than that, we didn't see anything.

[48] They're rising up over there.

[49] Yeah, yeah, they are.

[50] But it was, it's just, I mean, it is.

[51] It's so, you just can't go wrong in Paris.

[52] It's fucking perfect.

[53] Yeah.

[54] It's perfect.

[55] Did you go to the Louvre?

[56] No, we did.

[57] We didn't do a single, like, touristy thing.

[58] We just walked around the cute neighborhoods and ate a bunch.

[59] And, like, that's pretty much it.

[60] It was fucking magical.

[61] Did you drink some street wine?

[62] Definitely had street wine.

[63] We just would sit out front of a cafe.

[64] Yeah, right?

[65] And sit.

[66] You know what yesterday was?

[67] And this is kind of why we went to is 10 years since mine and Vince's first date.

[68] Aw.

[69] Can you believe that?

[70] Ten years.

[71] Yeah, that's crazy.

[72] That's a really cute anniversary to know.

[73] Yeah, yeah.

[74] It's right by my birthday, so it's kind of easy.

[75] But still, you know.

[76] Well, that's a good celebration.

[77] Yeah, totally.

[78] In the city of romance.

[79] Ugh.

[80] Ugh.

[81] Did you French?

[82] Vince kept hitting his, we definitely French.

[83] Vens kept hitting his head because no one's like over six feet, whatever there.

[84] So like in our hotel room, the doorway was like six feet tall.

[85] And he's like six three.

[86] So he kept hitting his.

[87] his head.

[88] Oh.

[89] Like another, in like all over town, he hit his head.

[90] A lot of ducking for him on that trip.

[91] Yeah.

[92] Yeah.

[93] Oh, well, good.

[94] Yeah.

[95] It's nice to get away and then come back to L .A. and be like, you know, you can finally appreciate home.

[96] Yes.

[97] That's also a very helpful thing.

[98] You need to get away for a minute to be able to appreciate what you have, right?

[99] Yeah.

[100] And, you know, person, Personally, I would recommend going to one of the most beautiful countries.

[101] I mean...

[102] It's our hot take.

[103] Yeah, this sounds crazy, but Italy is awesome for traveling.

[104] Yeah.

[105] You wouldn't believe what it looks like and it feels like.

[106] Paris, they don't talk about the food enough.

[107] No one ever talks about the food.

[108] It's so good.

[109] Hardly ever.

[110] French cooking is like not...

[111] People need to know about it.

[112] Yeah, you heard it here first on this true crime podcast.

[113] in that Italy and Paris are the places to be.

[114] Are the places to be?

[115] Did you have one time, so we went on this like trip, I know I've told you a thousand times, but a trip to Russia in high school that ended on the way home in like one day and a bunch of different European capitals?

[116] I should say cities, I don't know if they're the capital.

[117] So we were in Paris for like, I think, two days.

[118] And we walked down the street because I think we went to the Louvre.

[119] and we were walking all over, and finally we were just tired.

[120] So we were just like, let's just go in there and see if they have anything to eat.

[121] And to this day, I haven't had a better sandwich.

[122] It was literally like their croak monsieur, whatever it's called, that was just kind of sitting in the tray at the end of their day.

[123] And I was like, that looks great.

[124] And it was the best thing I'd ever eaten in my life.

[125] Yeah, you can do that there.

[126] It's just so simple.

[127] Oh, sorry.

[128] I met several murderinos while I was in Italy.

[129] which was really hilarious.

[130] Oh, how?

[131] One, and I'm so sorry I don't remember your name, I should have written it down.

[132] One was a young woman who was with her parents, and me and Adrienne were in a pharmacy.

[133] We kept going to the pharmacy because they have so many good, like, right?

[134] Same with France.

[135] I went crazy in their pharmacy.

[136] So you're just like, you know this is the best waterproof mascara.

[137] You don't know what you've never seen the brand, but you're like, I have to get it.

[138] And so we actually went back to the same pharmacy two days in a row because Adrian's like, I'm getting that blue mascara.

[139] We were standing there making all these jokes of like, it's 1984 again, blah, blah, blah.

[140] And then we walked out of the pharmacy and this girl's standing there with this smile on her face.

[141] And she's like, are you, Karen, kid there?

[142] And I'm like, yeah.

[143] Was she Italian or was she American?

[144] No, she was American and she recognized my voice from talking.

[145] So then I'm like, hey, this is my sister's friend, Adrienne.

[146] Like, point to Adrian.

[147] Oh, my God.

[148] It was so funny.

[149] So hi to her.

[150] I think her name started with a D. It was like, I can't remember.

[151] And I'm really sorry.

[152] It was a very passing.

[153] She didn't ask for a picture.

[154] She didn't want anything.

[155] She was just like, hi, bye.

[156] I met a French murderer now who was actually French.

[157] Oh.

[158] Yeah.

[159] And I forgot her name too.

[160] But I think I was so like, she like ran after me and was like, hi and everything.

[161] And didn't want a photo, nothing like that.

[162] But I think I was so flabbergasted that there was someone in France.

[163] who knew who I was.

[164] That was very exciting.

[165] Yes.

[166] Or listens.

[167] And then the second was Kim Jones, who is from, lives in Vancouver.

[168] Shout out to Kim Jones.

[169] We had a really fun.

[170] We had to sit at a communal table at one of the hotels that we stayed at.

[171] And both me and Adrian were like, this isn't going to work out.

[172] But Janet, who was our third friend in the group, who is a people person, was like communal table all the way.

[173] And she recognized me at the end of the end of.

[174] the dinner, I told some story about something we had done.

[175] And then she looked at me and goes, wait a second.

[176] And she's like, your name's Karen and her name's Adrian.

[177] Oh, my God.

[178] And then like put it together, Scooby -Doo style and it was really cute.

[179] It was very sweet.

[180] I love that.

[181] I love that.

[182] Cool.

[183] Well, do you have any recommendations corner or should we get down to business?

[184] Let's get down to business.

[185] I don't, I haven't really been doing anything except for, I recommend walking through the streets of Florence and having people tell you that they think you're beautiful and they just want to get to know you.

[186] That's what I recommend.

[187] Oh, that's nice.

[188] That sounds nice.

[189] Okay, let's do some exactly right network updates, shall we?

[190] Let's do it.

[191] Should I start?

[192] Sure.

[193] Well, and I should start because after three years of Zoom recordings, Chris Fairbanks and I are finally back in the car on Do You Need a Ride?

[194] We're very excited about it.

[195] It makes all the difference in the world.

[196] world.

[197] I can't even tell you.

[198] So the first episode of season four, we're calling it season four wheel drive.

[199] Hmm.

[200] I didn't get that.

[201] I'm looking at it on the computer right now.

[202] Now I get it.

[203] It's definitely kind of, it's a reading joke as much as it, that that was, that's the genius of Aaron Brown.

[204] Amazing.

[205] One of our marketing queens.

[206] That's right.

[207] It premieres Monday, June 26th.

[208] So if you haven't subscribed to Do You Need a Ride, go ahead and hit that subscribe button.

[209] That's always good.

[210] And then listen whenever you want to listen.

[211] But the car theme is back in the podcast after such a long time of it being gone.

[212] Congratulations.

[213] I'm getting back in that.

[214] Thanks.

[215] And then on bananas, Kurt and Scotty are joined by improv and sketch comedians Ellie Kemper and Scott Eckert to discuss the world's wackiest news.

[216] So be sure to check that out.

[217] Amazing bookings there.

[218] Over on Bridgers podcast.

[219] I said no gifts.

[220] This week, his guest is Natalie Morales from Parks and Rec, and the film No Hard Feelings, which comes out next week.

[221] I love that gal.

[222] She's really fucking cool.

[223] She's great.

[224] Yeah.

[225] And now that summer's here, you guys, you yourself can be the proud owner of a murderrino beach towel.

[226] Let all those beach bums know who you represent or who you're listening to while you son your buns.

[227] So go to the MFM store at myfavor .com to check out those babies.

[228] And one small detail, we have changed.

[229] So now, if you order more than $75 worth of stuff on the store, you get free shipping.

[230] Yeah.

[231] And that's for exactly right.

[232] Media for our other shows that you buy on there, too.

[233] So for all of it.

[234] Yeah.

[235] Everybody.

[236] Sweet.

[237] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[238] Absolutely.

[239] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[240] Exactly.

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[255] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[256] Goodbye.

[257] Cool.

[258] I think I'm first.

[259] Look at us.

[260] Look at us.

[261] We're back in the groove, baby.

[262] Wasn't that hard?

[263] It's just talking.

[264] It's just moving your mouth.

[265] Okay.

[266] Well, guess what?

[267] What?

[268] My story takes place in France.

[269] Italy.

[270] Italy.

[271] Italy.

[272] Okay, well, ask me if you need directions or any recommendation.

[273] Have you been and did you go to Milan?

[274] We were there for like to get a train, basically.

[275] Okay.

[276] It sounds like a really bougie city.

[277] Oh, yeah.

[278] Fashion Capital.

[279] And you know how obsessed I am with fashion and labels.

[280] You're like, give me that Prada.

[281] That's right.

[282] Bitch.

[283] Prada.

[284] I have a big tattoo, I'm going to say.

[285] I told you not to get it.

[286] Okay.

[287] So today I'm going to cover a story that takes place in Milan during the drug -fueled underbelly of the Milan fashion scene in the 1980s.

[288] Shit.

[289] Yeah, it's like a music video almost.

[290] This is the murder of Francesco di Alessio by fashion model Terry Broom.

[291] Wow.

[292] You know this one?

[293] No, I've never heard of this.

[294] You didn't hear it when you were there?

[295] Why would you?

[296] You know, I was talking to so many locals and really picked up on the language pretty quickly, but no, no one brought this up.

[297] The main source used is an article from Cosmo's archives entitled, A Murderous Model and the Mob in Milan, written by William Murray and other sources were an archived New York Times article by Robert Surrow, an article from Medium by Vittoria Saladino entitled From Aspiring Model to Murderer to Folk Hero.

[298] Oh.

[299] And the rest of the sources are listed in today's show notes.

[300] So, first I'm going to talk to you about this woman, Terry Broome.

[301] She's one of five kids in kind of lower -class American family.

[302] her father is an Air Force sergeant.

[303] They move around a lot, but she spends a lot of her childhood in Elgin, South Carolina, which is just outside of Columbia.

[304] Her dad's kind of a hard ass, and because she moves around so much, Terry and her sister are really close and bonded.

[305] She's like her main ally and her sister Donna.

[306] But Terry is a little jealous of her because Donna is seen as prettier and more popular than Terry, and she's just gorgeous.

[307] So gorgeous, in fact, that after high school, she moved to New York to become a model.

[308] And this is in the 1970s.

[309] So you can imagine how fun that must be.

[310] Oh, my God.

[311] Yeah.

[312] So Terry initially gets married at 18, but that quickly ends.

[313] And she sees her sister getting some success in New York in the industry.

[314] So she heads to New York as well to follow in her big sister's footsteps.

[315] But getting modeling work is a lot harder for Terry than it is for her sister, unfortunately, due to the beauty standards.

[316] And of course, Terry's gorgeous.

[317] But, you know, beauty standards are, of course, ridiculous for models, and Terry is pegged as being too tall, too gangly, and too freckly.

[318] That's like what they all peg her as.

[319] You know what I mean?

[320] Yeah, she was like, she was just a little too early.

[321] Yeah.

[322] Like now that would be so perfect.

[323] Totally.

[324] Yeah, it's just these impossible beauty standards that we all hate.

[325] Sorry, it just reminds me of back then, like, there was no Botox and there was no, like, easy outpatient plastic surgery of any kind.

[326] People were literally washing their face with that almond scrub that just scrape the shit off of your...

[327] St. Ives, right?

[328] Yes, the apricot scrub?

[329] Oh, my God.

[330] It was like apricot shell kernels and almonds.

[331] Horrifying.

[332] Oh, guys.

[333] Just saying it was hard to be pretty back then.

[334] It was.

[335] So Terry's frustrated by the lack of work.

[336] She just starts doing what you do in New York in the 70s, which is partying hard.

[337] She gets into nightlife, meaning cocaine.

[338] She drinks a ton of alcohol.

[339] I read like a bottle of scotch a day.

[340] Which is a lot.

[341] Uh -huh.

[342] In 1979, Donna, the sister goes to Paris to model there.

[343] Terry goes with her hoping that her luck might change over in Paris.

[344] Whoa, this takes place in Paris and Italy.

[345] Hey.

[346] Chances of that.

[347] But it's just more of the same.

[348] Donna is working and Terry turns to partying to escape the pain of not getting work.

[349] By 1980, Terry returns to.

[350] in New York, jobless and depressed.

[351] And she goes back to South Carolina to recover under the care of her mom and she faces a tough battle keeping her addiction at bay.

[352] But after a couple years, Terry has her life under control.

[353] She feels renewed.

[354] She's ready to get back out there and try modeling once again.

[355] This time in the fashion capital of everywhere, Milan, Italy.

[356] Can I just tell you to, and I'm not exaggerating when I tell you, like the people in Italy are really gorgeous individuals.

[357] But they have amazing fashion sense.

[358] Yeah.

[359] Just anywhere we went.

[360] Like, I think it's common in Florence, but especially in Milan.

[361] But it's just people have great outfits on all the time.

[362] So it's classy and kind of like people don't wear workout gear with like, you know, everywhere.

[363] Athleisure.

[364] Athleteisure, it's called.

[365] Athletia has not caught on.

[366] It's amazing.

[367] Yeah.

[368] I mean, that's all I wear at this point in my life.

[369] Mm -hmm.

[370] I'm always particularly.

[371] pretending I'm just coming from a spin class that I've never been to in my life.

[372] Totally, totally.

[373] So the fashion industry is, of course, notorious for having some shady characters hanging around and taking advantage of the young models, but that's especially true in Milan in the 80s.

[374] For American models hoping to make it big, a trip to Milan, which is actually usually sponsored by a New York modeling agency, it's a huge opportunity to meet the designers and photographers who are like the head of the industry and they can give them their start.

[375] They're given cash for a few weeks, and if they play their cards, right, they could book ad campaigns that will pay them anywhere from.

[376] So it's $200 to $1 ,000 per day for modeling, which is equal to about $584 to, do you want to guess how much $1 ,000 is in today's money from the 80s?

[377] From the 80s?

[378] 3 ,000?

[379] 29, 20.

[380] Fuck.

[381] Ding, ding, ding, ding.

[382] You're so close.

[383] It's so long ago.

[384] It's so sad.

[385] You can make a shit ton of money, like enough to cover your rent for the fucking entire month in just one day.

[386] And the more work they get, of course, the higher their chances get for international fame, because if you're famous in Milan, you're famous everywhere.

[387] And they can make a ton of money.

[388] And for the top models, you know, the sky is the limit.

[389] But all of that money and fame comes at a price.

[390] Models are pressured, of course, to always look their absolute best, which means to, you know, the modeling industry is skinny, You have to be well -dressed.

[391] You have to always look perfect when you go out.

[392] And they also need to be going out to the right clubs in Milan.

[393] I feel like New York's the same way, where you have to meet the right people, you know, see and be seen and parties and, you know, all that stuff.

[394] And it's not just about you being a model.

[395] Right.

[396] So because in these, like, luxury clubs and all these spots and parties, models meet Milan's richest and most powerful men.

[397] They all promise, of course, to give the models expensive clothing and jewelry.

[398] They introduce them to the right business partners.

[399] It's almost like a given that you have to flirt with these men.

[400] They're like the gatekeepers of the industry because they actually do have connections.

[401] Right.

[402] So these young models who go there, you know, they a lot of times, of course, have to have sex with these men.

[403] And thanks to the local mobs, the drugs, specifically cocaine, are always readily available in these circles.

[404] So during their stay in Milan, many of the models stay at a hotel called the Prince Pesek -Coldeel Day, is what it's called in Italian.

[405] It's so well known as a model hangout where all the young models stay and thus a rich playboy hangout that it's nicknamed Okay, you're ready for what it's nicknamed?

[406] Just prepare yourself.

[407] Okay.

[408] You know, the name is prince, basically princess, whatever.

[409] It's nicknamed Princess Clitoris Hotel.

[410] So not very imaginative.

[411] It's like so subtle.

[412] But again, to support my matriarchal society argument that I was making earlier, at least they're talking about the clitoris.

[413] I mean, they're...

[414] That's true.

[415] It's their focusing on what's important to the woman.

[416] That's right.

[417] That is true.

[418] I thought you were going to be like, Princess Pussy Hotel or whatever.

[419] Nope, the good old clitoris.

[420] The old clit.

[421] I wonder if in Italian, it just rolls off the tongue and it sounds so much better.

[422] Yeah, it sounds a lot better.

[423] Definitely.

[424] So millionaires just hang out in the lobby and prey on these young vulnerable women, you know, looking to find work.

[425] Like, it's a total cesspool of these millionaire men.

[426] And this is the world that Terry Broom is thrust into when she arrives in Milan in 1984.

[427] Can I see you again how old she is?

[428] So at this point, she's actually in her later 20s.

[429] Oh, okay.

[430] Yeah, like 28 or so.

[431] Okay.

[432] Terry arrives in Milan on April 20th, 1984, and immediately runs into bad luck.

[433] She's at a subway stop the day after her arrival and a pickpocket takes all the money she has, which was $1 ,000.

[434] Oh.

[435] So she's totally broke.

[436] She's forced to move in with her sister, and she quickly becomes a nuisance to Donna, leaving messes and falling back into her old partying habits.

[437] Donna, meanwhile, is focused on her own life, her modeling, you know, her big sister, her modeling career.

[438] She is a rich boyfriend, a local businessman, and she can't really deal with Terry.

[439] So she moves her into that infamous hotel, the Princess Clitoris.

[440] So it's just like immediately in the wrong place.

[441] for her.

[442] Yeah.

[443] And it's here that Terry meets a 38 -year -old man named Claudio Cotcha.

[444] He's one of the many rich playboys around the hotel.

[445] Claudio introduces Terry to all the most extravagant hangouts around town.

[446] He's taking her out, showing her a good time.

[447] Nightclubs, the drinks are always flowing, and the mob sold cocaine is just, like, passed around by the trayful.

[448] It's the fucking 80s.

[449] Like, of course it is.

[450] They thought it was good for you back then.

[451] Did they?

[452] They did.

[453] Well, you're a model, and you're a model.

[454] need to stay thin.

[455] Like, it's perfect for you.

[456] And it's free, right?

[457] So you're not spending all your money that you don't have on food and stuff.

[458] It's terrible.

[459] I mean, it's rough because it's like millionaires can afford it.

[460] It's no big deal to them.

[461] And they know models, some models like need it.

[462] Yeah.

[463] Yeah.

[464] It's just a crazy lifestyle.

[465] Yeah.

[466] So on the night of May 6, 1984, Claudio takes Terry to a party at a villa outside the city.

[467] The owner of the villa is a nan named Carlo Cabasi.

[468] He's the brother of a successful investment banker.

[469] He's known for throwing wild parties that end in orgies, and this night is no different.

[470] Terry ends up in the threesome with Claudio and Carlo.

[471] But there's another man at the party that night, and he's upset that he wasn't involved in this threesome.

[472] His name is Francesco Di Alessio.

[473] And after hearing that he missed the threesome, the next morning he walks into the room where Terry was sleeping.

[474] And she just wants to go home at this point.

[475] It's the next morning, but Francesco is standing in front of her, masturbating and demanding sex.

[476] And Terry refuses and makes her escape, you know, but this rich dude, Francesco, is not used to being told no. So he takes this rejection as a huge insult.

[477] Let me tell you a little bit about Francesco, the Alessio.

[478] So he comes from a rich family.

[479] He's the definition of spoiled entitlement.

[480] His dad, Carlo Di Alessio, is an indecent.

[481] He's a industrial entrepreneur who also runs one of the most successful horse racing stables in Italy.

[482] Oh.

[483] And that's big business there, so they're fucking wealthy.

[484] Horse money.

[485] Horse money.

[486] Serious.

[487] That's like people buy horses to show how wealthy they are, right?

[488] I would say so.

[489] Yeah, like horses and big boats.

[490] Yeah.

[491] The upkeep is expensive on those things.

[492] Yeah, that's a whole other thing.

[493] You're not just, it's not a one -time purchase.

[494] It's like those purchases that keep, they just add the bills.

[495] add the bills over and over.

[496] Yeah.

[497] Exactly.

[498] Like cats.

[499] Very similar.

[500] Dotties right here.

[501] Just playing with $100 bills.

[502] Okay.

[503] So this means that Francesco grew up around horse racing.

[504] He knows horse breeds inside and out so he can read horses better than almost anyone.

[505] So he loves horse racing and he also loves gambling.

[506] And luckily for him, of course, the two go hand in hand.

[507] He often wins any bet he places on horses.

[508] So he's fucking and wealthy and, you know, this cocky Italian dude.

[509] Wait, do you think he wins any bet because he's in the biz or...

[510] Probably, right?

[511] He, like, knows...

[512] He knows who to bet on.

[513] He's good at it.

[514] Sure.

[515] Yeah, yeah.

[516] Because, I mean, this is so unfair to be a millionaire that then wins every time he bets anything.

[517] Totally.

[518] God.

[519] Irritating.

[520] So as he gets older, he actually grew up to be a tall, like, handsome dude who ends up with all the homest, Marks of a happy, successful life.

[521] He has a wife named Cheryl.

[522] He has two beautiful kids and a life of luxury and leisure.

[523] But because he never grows out of his childish ways, he's like rude and spoiled.

[524] And his lust for the finer things in life includes drugs and women.

[525] As his addiction to Coke increases, so does his violence towards women.

[526] On at least one occasion, he's seen beating up an American girl for not wanting to sleep with him.

[527] And he's even caught beating.

[528] his wife after she threatens to divorce him.

[529] But this bad behavior doesn't stop there.

[530] He destroys cars and hotel rooms, starts very public fights, and stops taking care of himself, rarely showers or changes his clothes.

[531] She just kind of just does whatever the fuck he wants.

[532] Because he's basically strung out.

[533] Yeah, probably, right?

[534] Wow.

[535] Yeah, yeah, it seems like it.

[536] I mean, I bet the Coke was so good back then.

[537] Not to be all like woo -wooed at drugs, but Jesus.

[538] Right.

[539] Well, yeah, it's just kind of pure.

[540] And then if you're a millionaire, It's just bottomless.

[541] That's like, yeah, that's a great way to make a monster.

[542] Yeah, absolutely.

[543] But he, of course, always gets out of trouble with his dad's money and his connections.

[544] They bail him out of any legal jam he gets into.

[545] So this is who Terry turns down that morning and who she pisses off by turning him down.

[546] He proceeds to start spreading rumors about her in that, you know, tight little modeling scene and with all the millionaire men who are there, he says that she's indoor orgies, that she'll sleep with anyone, and he just says anything to try to get her a bad reputation.

[547] He's 40 years old, by the way, at this point, and she's 28, just so you know.

[548] Okay.

[549] So meanwhile, Terry meets another wealthy Milan playboy, a jeweler named Giorgio Roti.

[550] He's nice to Terry.

[551] He showers her with all kinds of expensive gifts.

[552] He also loves cocaine, just as much as she does, if not more.

[553] So they have a lot of fun.

[554] partying together, but it does seem like he actually loves her.

[555] He introduces her to his parents, and by early June of 1984, the two are living together and engaged.

[556] So she actually does find love, but unfortunately, the nightlife scene of Milan's rich and powerful is a small circle, so even though she's happy with Giorgio, she keeps running into a vengeful Francesco Di Alessio.

[557] So every time he sees her, he harasses her, he makes lewd comments like.

[558] loudly at her so everyone can hear.

[559] He grabs his crotch at her.

[560] He calls her a whore.

[561] Just like harasses her.

[562] So on the night of June 25th, 1984, Terry and her boyfriend, Georgio, are on a double date with the sister Donna and her boyfriend at a local spot called Cafe Roma when Terry sees Francesco at the bar.

[563] She's high on drugs at the time and anxious about what Francesco might do, so she convinces the group to go to another bar around 2 a .m. But Francesco, follows them there and walks right up to their table and starts immediately harassing Terry.

[564] She runs off to the bathroom to hide.

[565] He follows her, waits outside, and keeps making crude sexual comments about her.

[566] It's almost like he's trying to get Giorgio with the boyfriend to fight him, but he never takes the bait.

[567] Instead, you know, she's humiliated and the group just heads home without a confrontation.

[568] And on the drive home, though, Giorgio is silent.

[569] He's obviously bothered by what happened, but instead of directing his anger at Francesco, he directs it at his girlfriend, Terry, telling her he wants all of his gifts back and wants to break up with her.

[570] Oh, no. Yeah, so this harassment actually ended in her, you know, getting broken up with.

[571] I mean, in both of those circumstances, it's like the fragility of men can cause so much destruction because, God forbid, A, you turn one guy down.

[572] or B, you shame someone who can't, like, step up to a basic kind of, hey, man, back off situation.

[573] I know.

[574] It's just horrible.

[575] This is where the don't do drugs parts comes in.

[576] Absolutely.

[577] It's always glamorous in the beginning, and it always ends ugly like this.

[578] Totally.

[579] So Terry is, of course, devastated.

[580] You know, her hopes of marrying Giorgio are ruined all because of this fucking dude, Francesco.

[581] So when they get back to their apartment, Giorgio goes to bed, but Terry can't sleep.

[582] She's fucking so irate and distraught.

[583] She goes and grabs Giorgio, her boyfriend's revolver and some cocaine and heads to Francesco's apartment.

[584] Uh -oh.

[585] Okay, so now it's the early morning hours of that same night, you know, the day, June 26, 1984.

[586] You know what I mean?

[587] It's past midnight.

[588] It's the morning of, the night before.

[589] Yeah, so it's like three or four in the morning, let's say.

[590] Francesco is in his apartment in the Ritzie, Corsa, magenta neighborhood of Milan when he gets a call from a woman who calls herself Diana and asks that she can come over to party.

[591] So he's like, absolutely, he has a woman there spending the night already, this model name Laura Royko.

[592] But if he says, more the merrier, come on over.

[593] Can you imagine how exhausting this life would be?

[594] Oh, my God, five in the morning.

[595] I'm sleeping.

[596] There's already somebody in your bed and you're just like, yeah, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more.

[597] Come on over.

[598] Bring drugs.

[599] Oh, my God.

[600] No, I'm tired just reading this.

[601] So around 5 a .m., there's a knock at Francesca's door.

[602] He thinks it's this person, Diana.

[603] He opens the door.

[604] Lo and behold, it isn't.

[605] It's our girl, Terry.

[606] And she's pissed off.

[607] He smiles when he sees her and he says, I knew you'd show up.

[608] It seems like they might hang out a little bit first, taking drugs and talking.

[609] But then Francesco tries to make a move on Terry.

[610] She shuts him down.

[611] His ego's bruised.

[612] He starts slut -shaming Terry, insinuating that she only likes group sex, saying, like, want me to call some of my friends to come over, you know, calling her a bitch and just, like, kind of dressing her down.

[613] And so at that point, she reaches into her purse and pulls out Giorgio's 38 -caliber gun and fires.

[614] Whoa.

[615] The bullet blasts through the wall, missing French.

[616] And the second shot she fires hits him square in the chest.

[617] He lunges forward and grabs her wrists and they fall to the ground, wrestling for control of the gun.

[618] And in the tussle, Terry fires three more shots.

[619] One of them hits Francesco in the temple.

[620] And meanwhile, the model who's there, Laura Royko, is like, please don't shoot me. And Terry's like, why would I shoot you?

[621] Like, you're fine.

[622] And she runs out.

[623] She pockets the gun and takes off.

[624] She was at least in control enough to know it wasn't like a spree.

[625] No, yeah, yeah.

[626] It was him.

[627] It was just for him.

[628] Yeah.

[629] It was her revenge, the end.

[630] Exactly.

[631] So when Terry returns home, she goes home to Giorgio, tells him what happens.

[632] He immediately starts helping her.

[633] He cleans off the blood and helps her pack for the airport, buys her a ticket to Zurich, Switzerland, sets her up at a hotel there.

[634] But Italian police had already flagged Terry's name in the system because, you know, the model had called 9 -1, not 911, called emergency services right away.

[635] And so they, you know, they knew he was dead already.

[636] She had killed this man. Yeah.

[637] So as soon as she lands in Zurich, the Swiss police are there, and she's arrested and extradited back to Italy to stand trial for the murder of Francesco DELSio.

[638] So as soon as she steps off the plane, Terry is met with a media frenzy.

[639] Like, this becomes one of the most high -profile cases.

[640] in Italy of the 80s.

[641] It's huge.

[642] Partly because Francesco's wealth and notoriety make the case a high -profile one, but also because I think there are so many women who understand how these men act towards them and kind of see her as a folk hero.

[643] Like, there's only so much we can take.

[644] You know?

[645] Terry insists she didn't want to kill Francesco, but she's charged with premeditated murder, which is the equivalent of first -degree murder in America and faces life in prison.

[646] She's bounced around from an overcrowded prison in Milan to a prison filled with violent criminals.

[647] But as she waits for the trial to begin, but finally she's moved to a calmer facility in Bergamo near Milan, where she has an easier time settling in.

[648] In fact, she's become so much of a folk hero to women that when she arrives at this prison, some of the prisoners hang streamers from themselves when she arrives to welcome her.

[649] Oh, my God.

[650] Yeah, they're like, yay for her.

[651] Yeah.

[652] She becomes fast friends with her cellmate, a former terrorist named Vincenza Fiorini, who helps her learn Italian while Terry helps Vincenza with her English.

[653] So they become, like she's happy there, they become friends.

[654] Hmm.

[655] So Terry's trial begins at last in June of 1986.

[656] Her sister Donna shows up to support her, and even her mom flies out from South Carolina to be there for her daughter.

[657] her attorneys paint the picture of a young woman who was pumped with drugs and taken advantage of by older, wealthier men.

[658] And with the help of a court -ordered psych evaluation, they can convincingly argue that Terry was suffering from a temporary psychosis caused by, quote, chronic cocaine intoxication on the night of the murder.

[659] So the jury hears from countless witnesses that Francesco was indeed a violent, drug -addled man with a long history of mistreating women.

[660] And while Terry admits that she did kill Francesco, she asserts that her, quote, intentions were not to murder him or to do him any harm, but only to frighten him.

[661] You know, that's the thing about bringing a gun somewhere.

[662] Yeah.

[663] It's pretty much the only thing that can happen is murder or some terrible kind of consequence.

[664] Absolutely.

[665] If you want to yell at a guy and slap him across the face, go ahead and leave the gun out of your purse then.

[666] Absolutely.

[667] I totally agree with that.

[668] Okay, great.

[669] Thanks.

[670] Well, I'd like to disagree with that, tell you what I think.

[671] At the end of the trial, whatever attorneys delivers a hard -hitting closing remark, quote, you see before you a living being, but in effect, she is deader than the one whose life she inadvertently took.

[672] Only your sentences can bring this girl back to life.

[673] Because I guess she's super distraught over the killing and over what's going on.

[674] That's a bit, I don't know.

[675] If I was on that jury, I'd be like, you're saying the living person is deader than the dead person.

[676] I don't think so.

[677] Yeah, the math doesn't add up there.

[678] No, that's a little fucked up.

[679] But the courtroom is so went over by Terry's tragic story that the line causes an eruption of tears and applause so loud that the judge has to quiet everyone down.

[680] So everyone's on her fucking side.

[681] Women have fucking had it.

[682] Yes.

[683] But Terry's not the only one on trial.

[684] Actually, three more defendants face charges of their own, Claudia Ocatcha, for false testimony.

[685] Carla Kabasi for dealing drugs and the boyfriend, Georgi O 'Roddy, for aiding and abetting and cocaine dealing.

[686] So, like, they took these three men with her.

[687] Yeah.

[688] Since they represent the massive problem of abuse and manipulation in the modeling scene, these three men are immediately hated and even nicknamed the three little pigs.

[689] Jesus Christ.

[690] So, like, people are totally anti them and totally pro -tery.

[691] Wow.

[692] After eight days of trial and seven and a half hours of deliberation, all of the men are found guilty of their crimes.

[693] And Terry is found guilty as well, but of a lesser charge, which is the equivalent here of second degree murder.

[694] Which means premeditation is ruled out.

[695] However, she brought a gun to an apartment of someone she hated.

[696] She gave a false name.

[697] Yeah.

[698] She's, there's a little, that doesn't hold up.

[699] But maybe the standards are different over there.

[700] Totally.

[701] Totally.

[702] So Terry immediately sets out to make what she can of herself in prison.

[703] She tells the courtroom, quote, I wish I could change what happened, but that's not possible.

[704] What I can do is start a new life and stay away from drugs and maybe I will mature a little bit.

[705] And that's exactly what she does.

[706] She cleans up and gets into a good rhythm behind bars.

[707] She gets healthy.

[708] She works in the prison vegetable garden and laundry room.

[709] And she even starts making ceramic pottery at the prison on her free time.

[710] Oh.

[711] And in the meantime, because of the notoriety of the case, the Italian government is forced to impose some new legislation, including that underage models now have a curfew.

[712] And they also let club owners know that there will be consequences if underage models are found hanging out in their clubs.

[713] But it doesn't last long.

[714] The legislation, you know, it's just like kind of for show.

[715] Yeah.

[716] I was going to say, because she was in her late 20s when this all went down.

[717] Right, right.

[718] That's a good point.

[719] So Terry's released from prison on February 22nd, 1992.

[720] She moves back to South Carolina to be with her family, find a new job, and reclaim her life once and for all.

[721] And that is the 1984 Milan murder of Francesco DiLessio by fashion model Terry Broom.

[722] God.

[723] I mean, now this is, I'm not trying to be funny at all.

[724] Did while she was in Milan, did she start getting work?

[725] I don't know.

[726] That's a good question.

[727] I mean, because it just sounded like it's like she arrived, something bad happened, and then worse and worse things happened.

[728] Yeah.

[729] Like, God, there's nothing worse than that where you're like, I'm trying to move to a new town or I'm trying to like pursue my dream and every single thing is working against me. Totally.

[730] Rough.

[731] Yeah.

[732] Yeah.

[733] Wow.

[734] That's crazy.

[735] I know.

[736] Right.

[737] Milan.

[738] Milan.

[739] And just cocaine -fueled, it makes sense.

[740] It's just like...

[741] The 80s, cocaine -fueled fucking living.

[742] It's crazy that there's not a ton more stories that are kind of like similar to that.

[743] Yeah.

[744] It makes me think, you know, it was just the 30th anniversary of Phil Hartman's murder.

[745] And that was...

[746] Oh, really?

[747] Yeah.

[748] That whole thing was cocaine -fueled.

[749] Was it?

[750] So horrible.

[751] It's like, to me, that's one of the saddest.

[752] It's, you know, it is the story is what the story is and it's so awful.

[753] But like Phil Hartman was so amazing and it was just like, everyone was just like, wait, what?

[754] Why would this happen?

[755] And it's like, because of cocaine.

[756] It's cocaine.

[757] You should do that story.

[758] It's cocaine.

[759] I know, but I kind of just did in a way.

[760] It's just like there's not a lot else to it.

[761] Sadly.

[762] All right.

[763] And the story I'm going to do today couldn't be more opposite of the story that you just told.

[764] Good.

[765] It's kind of completely the opposite.

[766] We're going to go from Milan all the way to East Texas.

[767] Okay.

[768] And I'm going to tell you the story of the murder of Marjorie Nugent by her man friend, Bernie Tida.

[769] Okay.

[770] If you've seen the movie Bernie, it's been Jack Black.

[771] Yeah.

[772] And Shirley McLean, you are familiar with this story.

[773] Wait, is not the Zach Gald Lepanakis one.

[774] No. What's that one?

[775] That's not a true story.

[776] That one's the one.

[777] I can't remember what it's called.

[778] When him and it's fucking Will Ferrell, right?

[779] That are running against each other and like...

[780] No. No. No, there's a movie.

[781] Maybe I'm thinking of the Jack Black one.

[782] I think you're thinking of the Jack Black one.

[783] I think you're right.

[784] Okay.

[785] Because he sings in church and stuff like that.

[786] Yeah.

[787] And Matthew McConaughey is in it.

[788] Okay.

[789] Wow.

[790] So here's the thing about the movie.

[791] And the movie's really good, I think.

[792] When it came out, I enjoyed it.

[793] I'll say it like that.

[794] Matthew McConaughey is one of the executive producers because he's from that area of Texas.

[795] Oh.

[796] And his mother, there's a bunch of people that are actually play the townspeople that come in and comment, like, directly to camera documentary interview style about Bernie and about, you know, about, you know, about.

[797] all the things that happened.

[798] And Matthew McConaughey's mother is one of those people.

[799] And she's just like, wow.

[800] She's great.

[801] She's really funny and very memorable from that movie.

[802] Yeah.

[803] And a bigger star in our world is Skip Hollinsworth is the one who wrote the script for that movie.

[804] Because he did the original article when that story first broke.

[805] Oh, my God.

[806] Our friend journalist, Skip Hollinsworth.

[807] Great true crime journalist.

[808] Screenwriter, yeah.

[809] He's a great true crime journalist.

[810] We've talked about him ad nauseum on this show.

[811] Truly.

[812] His writing and his journalism and research has enabled both of us, I think, to tell many, many stories on this show.

[813] He writes a lot for the Texas Monthly, which is an amazing magazine.

[814] And they now have podcast network.

[815] So if you're into true crime and you're looking for something new, you could search Texas Monthly.

[816] you could search Skip Hollinsworth in the podcast app, and I'm sure you will find something amazing.

[817] Okay, so the sources used today are a Texas monthly, a couple Texas monthly articles by Skip Hollinsworth, including the 1998 Long Read, Midnight in the Garden of East Texas.

[818] I bet that's amazing.

[819] And multiple Dallas Morning News articles from 2016 by a journalist named Brandy Grissom.

[820] I actually found a couple articles by Brandy, in just trying to get, you know, like basic stuff.

[821] So Brandy was all over this story in the 2010s.

[822] And then you can find all the other sources in our show notes.

[823] So just so you know, if you haven't seen the movie, Bernie, it is directed by Richard Link Letter.

[824] It stars Jack Black, Shirley MacLean, Matthew McConaughey.

[825] Why am I picturing Zach Gallifanakis as the character?

[826] It's this one.

[827] I know.

[828] I just looked it up and it's definitely Jack Black.

[829] But in my mind, it was...

[830] I don't know why.

[831] Because it's a similar vibe of like the small town kind of goofy guy that's like...

[832] That he plays so well that Zach Eltheneck is just so good at.

[833] So in my mind, Tim, okay.

[834] Yeah.

[835] It's, there's a lot of...

[836] But the funny thing is, and this is true about Bernie Tita, he was big into church and singing in the church choir.

[837] So, of course, there's all these scenes in this movie of Jack Black, basically singing and singing louder than everybody.

[838] But Jack's an amazing.

[839] singer and I bet you the original Bernie was just like a guy that was in the church choir.

[840] So that's kind of, that's something I really enjoyed in that movie was Jack just jamming out to like church hymns, whatever.

[841] Okay.

[842] So let's just start this story where it all begins on August 2nd, 1958 when Bertie Tita is born in the town of Tyler, Texas.

[843] His father, Bernhardt, is a first generation Ukrainian immigrant who heads the fine arts department at nearby Kilgore College and his mother, Lila May, is the educational director at their church.

[844] This young family is eventually rounded out by Bernie's younger sister, Anna, and they're all deeply religious and very, very musical.

[845] In 1961, though, their family suffers a devastating blow when Bernhardt and Lila May are involved in a head -on collision.

[846] Lila May is pregnant at the time.

[847] The other car that they got in head -on collision with was driving on the wrong side of the road.

[848] Oh, my God.

[849] Lila is killed and her baby is killed.

[850] And Bernhardt struggles with survivors' guilt and begins drinking heavily.

[851] He eventually takes Bernie and his little sister, Anna, both just toddlers at the time and moves to Abilene for a fresh start.

[852] So that's just kicked off by serious tragedy in this family.

[853] Jesus, truly.

[854] But in Abilene, more tragedy awaits.

[855] Here, Bernie experiences traumatic sexual abuse at the hands of an uncle later on, and it goes on for years.

[856] Oh, my God.

[857] Yeah.

[858] And later, when Bernie's only 15, his father passes away, then on top of everything else, Bernie begins struggling with his sexual identity.

[859] Being a gay man living in this incredibly conservative part of the country means that he has to hide a huge part of who he is from others.

[860] And it's also, at this point, if he was born in the 50s, this is like, the 70s.

[861] So just being gay, just didn't, you weren't allowed to do that, be that.

[862] It was absolutely just not discussed.

[863] And just so you know, when the film Bernie is released and when Skip Hollinsworth wrote his articles about this case, Bernie was not out.

[864] They basically treat, both of those things treat Bernie's sexuality as just kind of innuendo.

[865] And it's not really addressed directly in any way, but he has since come out.

[866] Okay.

[867] Just, I think that's an important detail.

[868] Yeah.

[869] So he lives through all of this horrible personal tragedy, but he's very resilient.

[870] He knows with his father gone, he has to provide for himself and his sister, so he immediately gets to work.

[871] The first job he gets is at a funeral home, and he's picking up shifts after school and on the weekends, doing yard work and landscaping.

[872] But eventually, he goes inside and begins assisting with funeral services.

[873] And his sister, Anna, would later tell Texas Monthly, quote, I really think that because of the loneliness he went through in his childhood, Bernie made it his calling to serve people in times of their own need.

[874] So I think that's really true.

[875] It's like when you have that kind of understanding of loss and what people go through when they are at a funeral, it would make a lot of sense that he would find connection there and be able to kind of give people what they need.

[876] So after he graduates from high school, Bernie gets an associate degree in mortuary science in Louisiana.

[877] And then when he's in his mid -20s in 1985, he moves back to East Texas and he settles in the small town of Carthage population, 6 ,500 people.

[878] Oh, my goodness.

[879] Truly small town.

[880] So he gets a job at a place called the Hawthorne Funeral Home and he has quickly recognized for his top -notch mortuary skills.

[881] According to the owner of the funeral home, who says, quote, he was probably the most qualified young man I've ever seen.

[882] He waited well on the families.

[883] He would sing solos behind the screen during the funeral, and he was a darn good embalmer.

[884] He had a talent of making the hair of the deceased look really natural.

[885] Wow.

[886] End quote.

[887] So kind of all of his best talents are being utilized here.

[888] Yeah.

[889] Like he really found himself a spot.

[890] But Bernie isn't just valued for his work at the funeral home in Skip Hollinsworth's article Midnight in the Garden of East Texas.

[891] He describes Bernie as a remarkably warm, hearted, and popular man. He makes friends quickly and he's eager to be helpful.

[892] He helps his neighbors fill out tax forms.

[893] He gives gifts just because he does little repairs for friends and neighbors when need be.

[894] According to a member of his church, Bernie is, quote, very quick to shake your hand.

[895] and ask how you're doing.

[896] And if you told him you weren't doing too well, he would drop everything to talk to you and see what he could do.

[897] End quote.

[898] How many times have you asked someone how they're doing and you don't even listen to the answer and you just like start talking about something else?

[899] Yeah.

[900] I mean, very common.

[901] So this story, it's very important to kind of state this up top.

[902] This story is almost entirely, the narrative is driven by Bernie himself.

[903] Right.

[904] Whether it's in Skip's article or the resulting script that came out of that article, Marjorie Nugent obviously isn't there to talk about her experience in this situation, nor are her family.

[905] So it is that kind of one -sided, it's a character study that's real, but it's also kind of this thing that's very, to me, very interesting as you kind of look through it, which is all the kind of red flags that we talk about, which is people hiding in the church, people using niceness as a mask, so that essentially when all the other people in town hear about what happened, they just say, I can't believe it, therefore it didn't happen.

[906] Therefore, that's not it.

[907] Right, right.

[908] Or something else must have triggered it or something, yeah.

[909] Yeah, there must be an explanation.

[910] The narrative is controlled by the person who has the, most to gain from controlling it.

[911] Yeah.

[912] And I think, but probably especially back then, this idea of, say, sociopathy or psychopathy where people know they're controlling the narrative.

[913] And what they're doing is very much to play into that, I can do this over here with my left hand.

[914] And if I'm acting like this with a big smile on my face, I can do whatever I want with my right hand.

[915] And that, you know, especially in a small town, if you've built up those relationships, and you've built up a certain kind of reputation, you know, the movie Bernie and everything else kind of goes to show is it takes you really far.

[916] Yeah, for sure.

[917] So that's where the other main character of this story comes in.

[918] Her name is Marjorie Nugent.

[919] Marjorie's in her mid -70s.

[920] She's very wealthy.

[921] Her husband, Rod, amassed a fortune in oil and banking.

[922] Damn.

[923] Yeah, oil wasn't enough.

[924] He basically is like, I have all this money from this oil.

[925] I'm going to have a bank now.

[926] Holy shit.

[927] They live together in a sprawling, stately compound in Carthage.

[928] And some locals describe Marjorie as icy and reserved.

[929] God forbid a woman be unfriendly.

[930] This is how the movie Bernie depicts her.

[931] But her family is pushed back on that characterization and called it deeply unfair.

[932] Which I think is fascinating because in the story, she is alienated from her family and kind of distant from her family.

[933] So the idea that after the fact, it's like this is, this all just got mischaracterized.

[934] And she wasn't really like that.

[935] Shit.

[936] Yeah.

[937] What seems true is that Marjorie doesn't have the same outward friendliness and charm that Bernie not only has, but that has made him locally adored.

[938] So it's very easy to just be like, he's good and she's bad.

[939] Totally.

[940] Also, she's rich.

[941] So she probably has a lot of rich people's habits.

[942] of like, do this for me and I don't need to talk to you and out of my way, I'm first in line.

[943] Right.

[944] Maybe, I don't know.

[945] Yeah, or like, you know, she keeps to herself more than other people do.

[946] Or they don't like her because she's rich and spread rumors about her, whatever it is.

[947] Yeah.

[948] It feels like there's lots of variables that could be at play here instead of the simplest.

[949] Yeah.

[950] God forbid, that is how life is.

[951] So one Carthage resident tells Skip Hollinsworth in his article, this about Marjorie.

[952] They say, she wasn't all that unfriendly, but she didn't go out of her way to be friendly, which can mean a lot in a small town.

[953] End quote.

[954] And there it is, really, 6 ,500 people.

[955] There's high schools that are bigger than that.

[956] Judgy, judgy, judgy.

[957] Yeah, one mark against you.

[958] It doesn't go away quickly.

[959] Totally.

[960] Or ever, maybe.

[961] There's the girl that barfed in third grade.

[962] Remember when he called the teacher mom, in fifth grade, he's 45 now.

[963] Please let it go.

[964] And everyone calls him son.

[965] Okay, so in 1990, Marjorie's husband abroad dies suddenly of natural causes, and it's at the funeral home that Marjorie meets Bernie for the first time.

[966] And he assists her with all the arrangements.

[967] So it's now well known around Carthage that Bernie enjoys close friendships with Carthage's widows.

[968] Red flag number four, I think.

[969] Sounds like a party to me. But he takes particular liking to Marjorie, and surprisingly, the feeling's mutual.

[970] Marjorie really loves Bernie.

[971] He's a godsend to her.

[972] She doesn't have very many friends in Carthage.

[973] Now she's lost her husband, so she suddenly has this man there who's being very supportive in her grief.

[974] Yeah.

[975] That friendship continues after the funeral is over.

[976] Bernie regularly stops by Marjorie's house.

[977] He eats meals with her, he runs errands for her, and he generally helps her recover emotionally from her husband's death.

[978] According to one Carthage local, quote, Bernie made her smile, he gave her plenty of attention, he was an excellent conversationalist, it was like he made her feel young again, end quote.

[979] And when you see the pictures of the two of them, Marjorie really looks like an old lady, and Bernie has this 80s mustache, and the 80s right up the center hair, you know, feathered hair.

[980] Yeah.

[981] And like a polo shirt.

[982] And he just looks like a young, good -looking dude.

[983] Okay.

[984] It's an odd match.

[985] Some might say.

[986] Mm -hmm.

[987] No judgments.

[988] But it also was the kind of thing where back in a time where he couldn't be an out gay man that was just like, I love old ladies or the movie anti -mame or whatever.

[989] Yeah.

[990] He had to just kind of like, he was very caring.

[991] and he wanted to make sure she was okay in her isolation, basically.

[992] Or at least that's what everyone thought.

[993] So this is the part of the story where accounts begin to differ depending on who you ask.

[994] Here's what we know for a fact.

[995] Marjorie's late husband, Rod Nugent, is worth about $10 million at the time of his death.

[996] Shit.

[997] Yeah.

[998] Holy shit.

[999] His death makes Marjorie the richest widow in Carthage.

[1000] I would hope so.

[1001] And the money just rolls in.

[1002] She makes upwards of 300 ,000.

[1003] $1 ,000 a year off of her husband's business royalty payments alone.

[1004] Oh, my God.

[1005] Yeah.

[1006] And now Marjorie's ready to use this money, you know, once she's kind of done with the grieving process, to have some fun out in the world.

[1007] And to do that with Bernie, she's basically found the perfect companion to do that with.

[1008] Despite their 40 -year age difference, Marjorie and Bernie become incredibly close.

[1009] And this fact, of course, is not lost on the...

[1010] the people of Carthage, who constantly gossip about them and speculate if there's a romantic connection between them.

[1011] Yeah.

[1012] Marjorie's own family is deeply confused and a little unnerved by how close Marjorie and Bernie have become in just a few months after the death of their father and grandfather, including her only son Rod, who has had a fraught relationship with his mother.

[1013] So they're kind of distanced, but ultimately the family is.

[1014] glad to see that their newly widowed mother and grandmother has company and it isn't just alone in her house.

[1015] Now, Marjorie begins to lavish her new best friend with expensive gifts, starting with a $12 ,000 Rolex watch.

[1016] Oh my God.

[1017] Right?

[1018] She also takes Bernie on incredible vacations.

[1019] They fly first class to Germany, England, Egypt, Russia.

[1020] Holy shit.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] And then when they come back.

[1023] She bankrolls classes so that he can get his pilot's license.

[1024] She flies him to New York to watch Broadway musicals.

[1025] I mean, good for, like, if this didn't end so horribly, I'd be like, hell yeah, have some fucking fun, you know?

[1026] Yes.

[1027] And that to me is the, is kind of the line in the sand, because as we will learn later, we don't think Marjorie thought this was her gay best friend.

[1028] Oh.

[1029] We think Marjorie thought this was her new boyfriend.

[1030] Oh, dear.

[1031] Okay.

[1032] So Marjorie eventually buys Bernie a house not far from her own.

[1033] Holy shit.

[1034] And then he hosts a big open house that Christmas with all his Carthage friends and acquaintances invited.

[1035] So basically for someone like Bernie who's making $18 ,000 a year, this relationship with Marjorie is a life changer.

[1036] I'm sure.

[1037] The benefits are mutual, though.

[1038] Marjorie seems very willing to spend her money.

[1039] on Bernie.

[1040] I mean, if she's making $300 ,000 a year on just the interest, she don't give a fuck.

[1041] She's like, this is a bottomless pit of fun we're about to have.

[1042] Totally.

[1043] But he does bring out the best in her.

[1044] You know, before she met him, she, of course, was introverted and by, according to some people, standoffish and stuck up, if not grumpy and moody.

[1045] But now she starts going to Bernie's church.

[1046] She starts opening up.

[1047] She hosts a brunch at her estate for the women's Sunday school group.

[1048] She basically starts kind of thriving.

[1049] Like she realizes, or maybe realizes, I don't know, but the power of human connections.

[1050] You can have all the money you want.

[1051] But if you're behind a big old wall and your estate by yourself, it doesn't matter.

[1052] Right.

[1053] Basically, within one year of their meeting, Marjorie decides she's going to update the will.

[1054] She cuts her family out in tight.

[1055] What?

[1056] Uh -huh.

[1057] And names Bernie, the sole beneficiary of her estate.

[1058] Okay.

[1059] Like, this is just a screeching halt at this point.

[1060] Right.

[1061] When, how does this come up conversationally?

[1062] I mean, if she wanted to add him in there and not tell him as a little, like, when she passes, but to cut everyone else out and solely this one fucking person, that's, that's a red flag right there.

[1063] And you've got to know as an 80 -year -old woman who has all your marbles in place that's going to look like you don't.

[1064] So you have to do it.

[1065] You would have to be communicating with your banker or your lawyer or other people of like, well, are you cutting everybody out?

[1066] Is that need to happen?

[1067] Or could you just include someone and make sure he has a piece of this gigantic pie?

[1068] Sure.

[1069] Anyway.

[1070] So basically when Marjorie does, as Bernie stands to inherit $10 million.

[1071] Now, it's just all going to be his.

[1072] Oh, my God.

[1073] It would be a huge deal for anyone, but at the time Bernie met Marjorie, he was sinking into credit card debt.

[1074] And by the early 90s, he had given himself free reign over Marjorie's fortune.

[1075] And as Skip Hollinsworth points out, because he figured that someday it would all be his anyway.

[1076] In any case, he feels very, free to spend a lot of money on himself.

[1077] Whatever he wants, he buys.

[1078] But he also starts pumping money into the Carthage community.

[1079] He reportedly buys at least 10 cars for struggling families.

[1080] He awards educational scholarships at a nearby university.

[1081] He gives his church $100 ,000 for building upgrades.

[1082] And he buys out a local trophy shop that's in danger of closing.

[1083] Oh my God, not the trophy shop.

[1084] We can't lose this trophy shop.

[1085] So basically, he's also buying people's respect and admiration in the community, which is another very smart thing to do if you were, if by chance, this is someone who is just cynically playing, playing this for what it's worth.

[1086] Totally.

[1087] There's no limit to Bernie's generosity with Marjorie's money.

[1088] Hollinsworth writes, quote, when a man who once worked with him at the funeral home told him that he wanted to open a clothing store, Bernie agreed to fund it, saying that Carthage needed its own Neiman Marcus.

[1089] The man's idea of what Carthage needed was a little different.

[1090] He proudly opened, boot scooting Western wear.

[1091] I love it.

[1092] So basically, Bernie's kind of buying friends and buying, you know, buying the goodwill.

[1093] Totally.

[1094] And as he tells it, the relationship between him and Marjorie eventually begins to deteriorate.

[1095] We know Bernie begins to complain to his friends.

[1096] and family about Marjorie's possessiveness.

[1097] His friends seem to back this up.

[1098] They later give accounts of how Marjorie would expect Bernie to be at her beck and call.

[1099] He becomes her round -the -clock caregiver.

[1100] And if Marjor can't track him down, she gets, quote, almost panicky and calls his pager incessantly until he arrives.

[1101] I feel like my response to that, though, is, what'd you think that $12 ,000 watch was for?

[1102] Right.

[1103] And all the money you've been spending around.

[1104] downtown.

[1105] There's no such thing as a free launch, Bernie.

[1106] You can't.

[1107] Come on.

[1108] Yeah.

[1109] Okay.

[1110] So by early 1995, Bernie calls his sister and suggests that Marjorie is acting aggressively, irrationally, and might be suffering from mild dementia.

[1111] We do not know if that's true or not.

[1112] That's only according to him and his sister repeating what he told her.

[1113] Right.

[1114] But what Bernie's sister can tell is that he's exhausted.

[1115] So she urges him to find his way.

[1116] out of the arrangement between him and Marjorie.

[1117] Bernie reportedly responds by saying, quote, I'm her only friend, I have to stay because I'm the only one she has, end quote.

[1118] So then in November of 1996, Marjorie Nugent vanishes from Carthage, Texas.

[1119] No one sees her for weeks and then months.

[1120] And when people, including Marjorie's family members, ask Bernie where she is, he gives them a range of excuses.

[1121] He claims that she's had a stroke and she's recovering in an out -of -town nursing home.

[1122] He then tells Marjorie's stockbroker that Marjorie hasn't been in touch because she now has Alzheimer's.

[1123] So he's using that dementia thing as much as he can.

[1124] A few people, including Marjorie's family members, find Marjorie's prolonged absence incredibly weird, if not very suspicious, especially considering what Bernie was telling everyone.

[1125] Marjorie's cousin says, quote, I was worried something had happened to her, but I didn't know who to talk to about it.

[1126] Bernie was so beloved in Carthage that if I had suggested he'd done anything wrong, I would have been laughed out of town.

[1127] Damn.

[1128] The whole thing is like turns it into this super dark, like, what if this was the truth?

[1129] Yeah.

[1130] Yeah.

[1131] And he wasn't a victim, and he wasn't, like, this was all a plan.

[1132] Totally.

[1133] Marjorie's absence doesn't seem to affect Bernie spending at all.

[1134] He buys a jet ski, a bunch of new furniture for his home, an expensive coin, and crystal collections.

[1135] And if she's still alive and in a home somewhere, Bernie doesn't seem to be particularly worried about her.

[1136] He is throwing big parties at her house.

[1137] Oh.

[1138] Yeah.

[1139] He goes on a trip to Nashville with some local friends, and while he's on that trip, he somehow does a public performance of the song Beautiful Dreamer that gets him like such an emotional performance he gets like a prolonged ovation is how they describe it so he's kind of now living his best life and all of this is very different than how a dedicated companion would act if somebody was say in a home or suffering from dementia right and that's because Bernie is hiding a very dark secret and that secret begins to bubble up to the surface in July of 19, which is when Marjorie's family finally calls Carthage police and asks them to please do a welfare check on her.

[1140] Now, at this point, she hasn't been seen or heard from in months.

[1141] For some reason, police don't follow up on that request for another month.

[1142] So then in August, investigators reach out to Bernie and they ask if he knows where Marjorie is.

[1143] Bernie gives them a new explanation.

[1144] He says Marjorie is in a hospital three to four hours away in Temple, Texas, where she's staying under a fake name.

[1145] But when police try to corroborate this, they can't find anyone that's been admitted to a temple area hospital that matches Marjorie's description.

[1146] Yeah, and like how weird would that be?

[1147] What would be the point of that?

[1148] Right, like she has to go four hours away to go to the hospital.

[1149] With a fake name?

[1150] That's silly.

[1151] It's like the details that start piling up where you're like, how come, what are all these details for?

[1152] So now police are getting suspicious.

[1153] They loop in Marjorie's son, Rod.

[1154] So Rod drives to Carthage with his daughters, and they unlock Marjorie's house for the officer with the police.

[1155] The entire group searches the house together.

[1156] Everything seems to be in order.

[1157] The maid still comes regularly, the yard's being tended to, and the mail gets taken in, which is super creepy.

[1158] Yeah, so creepy.

[1159] But something feels very off in Marjorie's garage.

[1160] And that's because there's a deep freezer in there that's mysteriously taped shut.

[1161] Taped.

[1162] Bone chilling when you open that garage door and you're like, uh -oh.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] And sadly, one of Marjorie's granddaughters decides to cut through the tape and look inside.

[1165] And at the bottom of that freezer, underneath bags of pecans and boxes of pot pies is the body of 81 -year -old Marjorie Nugent wrapped in a white sheet.

[1166] You can never get over seeing that.

[1167] ever like that is so shocking your grandma i mean i know it was like the earlyish 90s but like family members should not be searching a house with the police totally even if the policeman somebody went to high school with and blah right like think it through yeah think it through people of the past and it will later be discovered that she has four bullet wounds in her back.

[1168] Oh, my God.

[1169] So now, immediately police set out to find Bernie, and they don't have to look for very long.

[1170] He's about to take the local Little League team and their families out to dinner.

[1171] So when police asked Bernie for a few moments of his time, he very nervously agrees to be interviewed.

[1172] When the interview begins, he basically immediately confesses that he shot Marjorie Nugent in the back in November of 1996.

[1173] That means her body, was in that freezer for nine months.

[1174] Holy shit.

[1175] He adds, quote, I had thoughts of hitting Marjorie in the head with a bat or anything for a couple of months prior to that, but I did not want her to suffer.

[1176] She had become very hateful.

[1177] She had become very possessive over my life.

[1178] She was now evil and wicked, but I still cared for her.

[1179] And four bullets.

[1180] It's like so violent in the pack, you know?

[1181] And I think it's also really violent and gross to be basically crafting your excuse slash story while you are confessing to this murder where it's like she was evil?

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] Like, no, dude.

[1184] Yeah.

[1185] Like, you can't kill evil people.

[1186] You can't kill good people, but guess what?

[1187] You also can't kill evil people.

[1188] No, killing anybody isn't the solution.

[1189] and if she had some sort of like, if her brain, as my mom used to say, was going organic, if there was something wrong with your brain, why aren't you immediately getting her to a doctor or a facility, anything?

[1190] Right.

[1191] Like, it's, yeah.

[1192] So Bernie's arrested.

[1193] He's charged with Marjorie's murder.

[1194] He's given a $1 .5 million bond.

[1195] And the response by many residents of Carthage upon hearing Bernie's arrest is a surprising one.

[1196] instead of being freaked out or condemning the man for shooting an elderly woman in the back.

[1197] Instead, they rally around him.

[1198] They urge the local district attorney, Danny Buck Davidson, to go easy on him.

[1199] But this is not the view of everyone in the community.

[1200] Davidson says, quote, this town is split up.

[1201] People remember him as being real nice and doing nice things, and they like my office to go real easy on him.

[1202] And then there's a group that wants no. No