48 - An Albert Fish Production

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVeyne, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] What's wrong?

[17] Nothing, it just feels like it's been a long time.

[18] It does.

[19] Oh, it has?

[20] It has been?

[21] Yeah.

[22] Are we recording?

[23] Yes.

[24] Good, because we need to get this figured out.

[25] It has been, I guess we, I guess, almost two weeks.

[26] Is that right?

[27] Since, like, apartment recorded.

[28] Yeah, because we did our Bell House show last week.

[29] Yeah.

[30] That was a fun.

[31] That was different.

[32] That was nuts.

[33] That was a break from reality.

[34] It was super fun.

[35] We love you, Jamie Lee.

[36] Jamie Lee's books coming out.

[37] That's right.

[38] Thanks for being on.

[39] Ridiculous is coming out.

[40] I called it Weddle.

[41] What delicious.

[42] You did with the absolute confidence.

[43] That's all that matters is when you say stuff like that.

[44] Yeah.

[45] Yeah.

[46] They should change the title right now.

[47] That's, well, they might have to.

[48] Right.

[49] Uh, no. And she, she was talking about, and then I thought it would be funny when she was trying to plug it at the end to interrupt her.

[50] Be like, we're done.

[51] And, um, did she get her feelings hurt?

[52] I said, I didn't blame it on you.

[53] Did she get her feelings hurt?

[54] Not, did you hurt her feeling?

[55] Thank you.

[56] Um, no, I apologize to her after her.

[57] I was like, that really seemed like it was going to be funny to me. me. And then it didn't, but it, like, you know that thing where it's funny in the moment?

[58] And then, like, 48 hours passed and you're like, this feels bad.

[59] And she was like, oh my God, no, it was super funny.

[60] But she, the whole reason she was trying to say that is because if people order the pre -order, it can get on to the, possibly get onto the New York Times best sell.

[61] I know that.

[62] I mean, fuck writing a book.

[63] I know.

[64] There's a lot involved.

[65] But she's, and she's kind of an expert on stuff like that.

[66] So she's worked really hard.

[67] I mean, she's been working on this book for a really long time since I've known her.

[68] Longer than since she got engaged.

[69] I mean, since high school.

[70] Is he weird?

[71] No, that was a really fun show.

[72] The last podcast on the left dudes were awesome.

[73] And we didn't, I don't think we, did we talk about it on the show that we went and recorded their show that day?

[74] No, there's like a bonus episode at law, fuck, at last podcast on the left's like page, iTunes page or whatever, that us, just like a fucking half -hour conversation with them.

[75] Yeah.

[76] Someone got mad at us because we said we weren't interested in UFOs.

[77] Oh, but I have a very good reason for not being interested in UFOs.

[78] Because they don't exist.

[79] They scared this fucking shit out of me. I just don't feel, it's like with ghosts.

[80] It's like, why are we talking about this?

[81] Yes, they probably exist, but there's no proof.

[82] True, although, don't make me retell you my ghost story.

[83] Because there is proof.

[84] I haven't.

[85] A ghost hugged me. UFO scare you?

[86] yeah the idea of UFOs being real is like having a psychotic break where like suddenly what you know is no longer the truth and there's a whole new truth and the idea of that is very upsetting to me and like it's that thing where when it happens in a UFO movie where suddenly there's the thing hanging over the city or whatever yeah like in district nine yeah where it's just like I just don't want to go there like it life is hard enough well you know what I think I've always loved is the fact that our brains can't literally can't compute certain things.

[87] So if it's outside of our reality so much of like a fucking alien in the sky or a fucking ghost standing before us or some insane thing happening, our brain will just be like, nope, and just fucking shut it off and we won't even see this thing happening.

[88] Do you think that's true?

[89] I think that's true, yeah.

[90] Do I have to remind you for a third time I was hugged by a guest?

[91] That's a feeling, though.

[92] You're in full denial about my ghost experience, which was real.

[93] I've seen two ghosts.

[94] like as a kid I saw things happen but I still am like well my brain is weird that I did that oh I see so you're basically like you shut it down emotionally like we're not going to go into the freak out of that is that what you mean?

[95] Probably probably yeah like the same thing with thinking about this podcast and people are listening shit's happening I'm just like no I can't we're just here on these times someone's like everything's going great and I'm like I don't know I just go it's super weird and then I change a subject immediately we the thing that is now becoming like the funny thing that listeners are writing is we didn't know this was going to be a thing yeah they're out they're with us completely they understand either clearly they were like yeah I was here when it was just 5 ,000 of us we didn't think this was going to be a thing at all we thought we were weirdos too including you um hi this is my favorite murder it's a podcast starring a george harsark and karekilgarov our sound technician is a man named steward Stephen Ray Morris and his mustache and his this is day 403 of Stephen's mustache we've been counting he's doing it he's going to grow it all the way around his mouth I think that's my personal I thought you were going to say his head that would be funny but just tie it in the back oh my god why is that not a thing just a mustache fucking sounds like a nightmare yeah you have to do it now Stephen you Stephen only for you Karen oh speaking of only for us us.

[96] Stephen brought us.

[97] Okay, Stephen is like, does everything for us.

[98] Does everything.

[99] He's so fucking sweet and wonderful.

[100] And also thinks about things, like much more than we do.

[101] Because we don't know, because we didn't know this was going to be a thing.

[102] Right.

[103] So, but he did.

[104] He did, and he, like, was prepared for it.

[105] He prints things out for us, and plans.

[106] But also he brings us presents.

[107] He brought us Christmas holiday presents.

[108] We have a non -denominational holiday presence at our each seat on the couch.

[109] I know.

[110] So we decided we're going to open them on the air with you guys.

[111] I know what this is going to me. Oh my God, Stephen.

[112] It sounds amazing.

[113] Oh, my God.

[114] Oh, wow.

[115] Is this fuck?

[116] I fucking knew it.

[117] He got a serial killer baseball cards.

[118] Holy shit, Stephen.

[119] True crime.

[120] G -men, mass murders.

[121] Serial killers and gangsters.

[122] And they're like, they're like baseball card packets.

[123] Oh, you guys.

[124] Stephen, I'm going to fucking have a seizure right now.

[125] This is really good.

[126] Are these like, oh?

[127] Yeah, like, these are like hard to find.

[128] Yeah, they're from like the 90s.

[129] I think.

[130] Oh.

[131] Fuck, Stephen.

[132] I'm like, I see people posties on the fucking Facebook page and like, I've had these since the and everyone's like, fuck you.

[133] And you got like five packs of them for both of them.

[134] This is really good.

[135] Is there gum in there?

[136] I wouldn't eat it if they was.

[137] I'm going to, and then I'll sue you if anything happened.

[138] Now there's a secondary gift.

[139] There's another bigger one.

[140] Because he's a classy man that gives you a small gift with this bigger gift underneath it.

[141] Oh my God, oh my God, what is?

[142] It's his memoir of what assholes we are.

[143] What did you get?

[144] Let's see.

[145] It's the book.

[146] It's a vintage book.

[147] Oh my God.

[148] This is the book of Vicki.

[149] Morgan and Alfred Bloomingdale in the affair that shook the highest levels of government and society.

[150] Oh my God.

[151] This is the British one, right?

[152] It was the woman in Washington, D .C., where she was the dominatrix and there was sex scandals.

[153] The cover of that book is fucking, I want that on a shirt.

[154] Wait, when is this written in like the 80s?

[155] This one is by Larry Connor.

[156] It's called Cults That Kill Probing the Underworld of a Culp Crime.

[157] Yes.

[158] Stephen, it's like you know us.

[159] My, I thought for a second I thought this book was about, um, uh, somebody that was in the bangles.

[160] Because that's totally the color palette.

[161] This was written in 1988.

[162] I'm just so fucking like at the height of the satanic panic.

[163] This is so good, Stephen.

[164] I call it the satanic panic.

[165] Stephen, we got you a bottle of single malt scotch.

[166] We got you this old wrapping paper.

[167] Oh my God.

[168] Stephen, I'm sweating because I'm so happy.

[169] That's really good.

[170] I can't wait to.

[171] I don't think I should open me. giving you give I'm glad you like him Stephen you should open one open one of the packs good idea I'm doing it let's do it good idea oh my god also when we talked about the plan was that we were going to open these on the air and Stephen would you say it would be good for oh ASMRI oh yeah okay oh my god oh my god what did you get what did you get read a couple I got the Hall Mills case which on September 16th 1922 a couple walking down a country lane near New Brunswick New Jersey Jersey found two bodies lying under a crab apple tree.

[172] It was Reverend Edward Hall 41 and Mrs. Eleanor Mills, 32, a member of his church choir.

[173] He had been, both had been shot.

[174] Her throat had been cut.

[175] Oh, wait, I've heard this story.

[176] This is, we're only picking our murders from these decks from now on.

[177] Oh, my God, that's...

[178] Shuffled them up and she was, like, this week, it's...

[179] It's where they're only from the 90s and before.

[180] Our work has been done.

[181] Okay, mine, I have one, Clifford Olson, who looks like a real fucking piece of work.

[182] Look at him.

[183] um blah blah blah blah blah okay that's a dramatic painting let's see here so november 1980 a 12 year old british columbia girl disappeared her mutilated body was found a month later in 81 a 13 year old girl vanished followed by a 16 year old boy a week later the boy was found dead his skull crushed in may a 16 year old girl disappeared and then in june a 13 year girl and then in july jesus i'm doing him for my next number murder no spoilers no yeah all Are you reading till the end?

[184] Fuck, that's good.

[185] Stephen, I'm going to...

[186] These are amazing cases.

[187] These are like treasures that I will treasure forever than ever.

[188] And we're going to start trading them.

[189] I've never heard of half of these people.

[190] Jack the stripper!

[191] I'm not kidding him.

[192] Jack the stripper.

[193] In 59, 8, I'm going to rephrase this.

[194] Go ahead.

[195] A sex worker.

[196] Nice.

[197] Was strangled and clad only in her slip was found near their Thames.

[198] Tames?

[199] Thames?

[200] Tems.

[201] Oh, shit.

[202] it's one of those ones the only reason i know it's not it's one of those famous ones that i should i've been to and i should fucking know thanks she was found a shit happened look sonny bean remember i did that one this is the i am honestly like glowing right now this is best christmas ever this is the best honica ever steven richard coddingham wait a second i'm jewish what what what richard cottingham is the one i do just did on the last episode.

[203] You just did him and you, and then he walks through the door.

[204] Oh, shit.

[205] You got out of jail already.

[206] Oh, my God, you did.

[207] I'm going to open all of these.

[208] This painting makes him look way better than he actually looks in real life.

[209] What if we have a whole, okay, what if the next, the minisode is just us opening these and reading them to each other?

[210] That's a great idea.

[211] Let's absolutely do that for real.

[212] I'm fucking serious.

[213] Dude, it's happening.

[214] And also, look at how hot this guy is.

[215] Who's that?

[216] That's his story.

[217] I don't know.

[218] He's kind of like Mick Jaggery, but younger.

[219] Tune in to the next minute.

[220] Yeah, the Minnesota.

[221] Yeah.

[222] Holy shit.

[223] That's exciting.

[224] Oh, my God.

[225] That goes down.

[226] Your fucking angel.

[227] What, Stephen?

[228] What?

[229] Oh, I was going to say they were very controversial at the time because they were like, people were obsessed with them.

[230] I remember.

[231] I remember they had those, um, the playing cards of cold cases that they would give to inmates.

[232] Oh, yeah.

[233] In prison so that they would like be playing with these cards.

[234] And they'd be like, fuck man. And they'd like read about the victim and be like, this fucking dude I was in prison with has admitted to this.

[235] And like, there were.

[236] I think there were not a lot, but a couple cases that got solved because of that.

[237] That's a brilliant idea.

[238] Isn't it?

[239] Yeah.

[240] I do remember, though, when these came out, it was like, how dare you was the kind of overall.

[241] It was like so sick.

[242] Like similar to our podcast.

[243] We are the how dare you podcast of today.

[244] But for different reasons.

[245] And our podcast comes with a stick of shitty gum.

[246] That's right.

[247] our podcast listening to it is the same thing as eating old powdery pink flaky hard to chew a baseball card gum remember when you would just like eat it out of not spite but just like I bought this yeah it's the thing I picked yeah Vince buys the wrestling ones a lot like the old school wrestling ones too and yeah I think he burns the gum uh -huh burns it I don't know smokes it what if he just was like addicted to, oh my God, vintage gum.

[248] The fumes of vintage gum.

[249] That sounds like the new, like, what, like, what parents get told, like, the junior high kids are into now.

[250] Like, if you see old gum in your kid's room on the next 20 -20.

[251] They're smoking it.

[252] I would just like to say really quick that at that show, we had so many great people.

[253] It was crazy.

[254] And we got to say hi to so many awesome listeners, which was really fun.

[255] It is.

[256] And, um, and you got to talk to the doormen.

[257] at the end, which they loved your story.

[258] Well, I don't know if he loved it as much as it was like, let me give you some more information.

[259] Just on behalf of all doorman.

[260] Yeah, so my story last week was about in New York, the doorman at this bar, killed this girl.

[261] Spoiler alert, if you haven't listened.

[262] And so on the way out, the doorman who met before at the show, and he was really nice and cool, was like, hey, and like called me over.

[263] And I was like, fuck.

[264] Like, oh, he's going to be like, that was my brother or something.

[265] But instead he was like, I remember when that happened.

[266] I didn't know the guy, but, you know, I was, I was a dormant at the time.

[267] And it really fucked with a lot of us because it changed a lot of rules.

[268] And, you know, blah, blah.

[269] And I was like, I'm so sorry, I, dormant.

[270] I are not, he was like, we don't, we don't call ourselves bouncers.

[271] We call ourselves dormant.

[272] And I was just like, I fucking trust you guys.

[273] And like, that's who I was very like, sorry.

[274] But he was very cool.

[275] That's funny because when I walked up, it seemed like you guys were besties.

[276] Oh, no, because he was so kind and sweet.

[277] Oh, good.

[278] bell house we have to give them yes they they stay late to like let us um talk to all the people who stuck around and they were really cool at like moving the line along they didn't have to do that they were no they were great whole staff was amazing the whole staff was great thank you andrew for booking us this was our little our own booking long ago where we thought um this would be fun and it really we were right oh yeah um i would just like to say uh my thanks to my friend carrie who came to see me and he literally yelled, hey, over, like, five people and then walked away because he didn't want to have to wait in line.

[279] Oh, I met him.

[280] He was nice.

[281] Yes.

[282] And same with my friend Cullen, who apparently just sent me a message saying, yeah, I wasn't going to wait around.

[283] And then my friend David Knowles, who you did meet, who I've known since we were 12 years old, we met in sixth grade.

[284] I went to the freshman winter formal with him.

[285] He waited in line, and he was the second to last person in line.

[286] And when the, like, third to last person walked away, I go, the fuck are you?

[287] I'm going to see you after.

[288] It was like he waited a long to see.

[289] He probably thought everyone knew you.

[290] Yes, exactly.

[291] Like, he was like, these are all parents friends.

[292] We're trying to say hi in an organized guy.

[293] It was so nice.

[294] We, again, got a lot of fucking amazing presents.

[295] I got some of, I just keep getting the best cat toys.

[296] Yeah.

[297] Like, that's the whole, that's my scheme for this podcast is to get free cat toys.

[298] We got a lot.

[299] Cat toys and, um, well, What was in that other bag, in the bigger bag?

[300] Makeup.

[301] Oh, that makeup.

[302] I also want to, so we need to, if you go to our Instagram, it's my favorite murder.

[303] I post a lot of, like, the photos and stuff of what people gave us and shoutouts and shit.

[304] One thing we got that I just need to fucking, I got in the mail and started opening it.

[305] And I was like, can't open this.

[306] I'm going to cry without Karen.

[307] So this person, this girl named Molly, has this website called theurban smith .com.

[308] and she makes this like incredible jewelry and metalworking and like these gorgeous things.

[309] And she made us these necklaces that are so beautiful and delicate that say stay sexy on them.

[310] Yeah.

[311] They're like our twins these necklaces.

[312] And then she made me these two little charms that look like if Elvis Ramimi ever let me in my fucking life put a collar on them without murdering me that you put these on it.

[313] And it's just these little beautiful monogram things that say Elvis and Mimi that I'm going to wear as a neck like they're so beautiful yeah they're really nice so the urban smith i just wanted to give a shout to whoever gave us the color pop lippie sticks yeah color pop brand we got eye shadow and we got lipstick but this lippy sticks color pop lippy sticks in the color poison i think they wrote and said i hope this is the color that you can use because i've talked so much about she knows you lipstick it's it's so perfect because it's a really good color but it also stays on it's like a stain god bless america you know and we're not and we don't so yeah don't worry about it Yeah, and so we always will.

[314] On my favorite murder Facebook page, there were two meetups that I got to look at this morning, one for Portland, Oregon, one from Austin.

[315] And they were so cute.

[316] And the thing that kills me is how much crafting people put in.

[317] They do, I mean, is that the one that did the serial killer drawings?

[318] That was, I'm going to have to look, which one did the drawing.

[319] That's not up to you.

[320] I should do it.

[321] That's all right.

[322] I wrote it on this piece of paper right.

[323] Right here, Portland did the drawings.

[324] Oh, Portland.

[325] They did like coloring book pages.

[326] Coloring books of serial killers.

[327] Serial killers.

[328] I love it.

[329] And on the Austin meetup, they had all kinds of crass, but my favorite was they had name tags that said, my favorite murder is.

[330] And then they wrote who their favorite murderer is on the bottom.

[331] So one lady is like smiling, but it just says Albert Fish.

[332] I love the idea that he's your favorite.

[333] And that's such a great idea because then you can come up to someone and be like, oh my God, I know a lot about that one.

[334] too and then you talk about it like and then it's not awkward like at parties that's the whole point dude everyone's doing it dude guys um oh i saw a thing on our twitter mentioning this in and in next year don't look at my fucking murder i held up my papers and then you saw my girl i need you to know that i am so blind you could have been holding up one large capital a and i would have been like is it a building i was looking because it all those black lines that look like it's redacted.

[335] I know.

[336] No, it's not.

[337] I couldn't, I couldn't figure out my, I bought a new computer and I couldn't figure out how to format shit on my bucket and page.

[338] So that's like old highlighting or something?

[339] Yeah.

[340] So it's like, it's like the outer color is black and then, you know.

[341] Gotcha.

[342] So in 2017, Amazon is going to be posting with updates the old unsolved mysteries.

[343] Oh, that's right.

[344] Dude.

[345] Oh my God.

[346] The last time I saw one of those was a while ago when I was high.

[347] It was a while ago because I don't get high anymore, but there was a the reenactments are so gorgeous I remember very distinctly and this is like in 2002 when I saw this one of the episodes was about like ghosts and the way they showed that there was a ghost haunting this house is that in the kitchen this fucking loaf of bread started levitating oh yeah and you could see the strings holding up a loaf of bread and it was doing this like whew it was so stupid yes so I'm really excited about it it's going to be so good like what have we been doing without it in our lives I mean, because what's, are they going to update it?

[348] I think they're at the end when I love this, going to say, like, update from 2016.

[349] Because that's like the magic of the whole, it's almost like the blooper reel at the end of a good movie.

[350] The updates at the end of Unsold Mysteries are the most satisfying thing in the world.

[351] It's the same thing with the show intervention where they're like, it's like this beautiful ending of like, and I just feel so centered now.

[352] And then it's like, she fucking relapsed.

[353] She totally disappeared into the bottom of a ditch.

[354] She disappeared.

[355] And she's now living at home again.

[356] You're like, oh, man. But she's sober.

[357] But she's on the couch.

[358] Sorry.

[359] Which is for, no, please get sober.

[360] Please get sober.

[361] I don't know.

[362] It's none of our business.

[363] As I take a big old gulp of wine.

[364] I think that's all of our business.

[365] Oh, live show shit.

[366] There's some drama going on.

[367] We're not going to talk about it.

[368] We're going to say that.

[369] We have no control over tickets.

[370] None control.

[371] Or shows.

[372] or scalping.

[373] I mean, we're really excited.

[374] They know that.

[375] We're going to, there's going to be more, if we're not going to your city, it's because we're saving it, we're saving the best for last.

[376] That's right.

[377] It's not true.

[378] It's because we don't choose where to go.

[379] That's right.

[380] I'm not going to say the one state I refuse to go to.

[381] I wouldn't.

[382] I'm not going to.

[383] Please don't.

[384] Okay, great.

[385] You'll know when we've gone to 50.

[386] 50s.

[387] How many are there?

[388] Are there 52?

[389] No, that's cards in a deck.

[390] That's cards in a murder deck.

[391] Ooh.

[392] Let's go back to the cards.

[393] But, oh, my favoritemerder .com slash live is just how you see the places we're going.

[394] Yeah, check on there.

[395] Links.

[396] It'll give you pre -sale codes, all that business.

[397] And thanks to Kelly for doing that for us.

[398] Kelly Dwyer, amazing photographer.

[399] Great fucking.

[400] Mother of baby, maybe.

[401] Baby, maybe.

[402] Oh, my God.

[403] Maybe baby bear.

[404] And Matt Dwyer.

[405] Well, hilarious comedian.

[406] I saw them last night.

[407] Does he have a podcast?

[408] Sorry, Matt.

[409] Sorry, Matt.

[410] has one called afterbirth.

[411] That's so gross.

[412] It's after birth.

[413] And he was like a fucking like big timey comic with all the big timeies in Chicago way back one and did a bunch of shit with him.

[414] So he has a lot of those people on the podcast talking about what it's like to have a kid.

[415] That's great.

[416] And he's so funny.

[417] So it's after birth.

[418] It's unfair.

[419] He's hilarious.

[420] He's so funny.

[421] We're assholes.

[422] Okay.

[423] No, we're not.

[424] We just fucking.

[425] Sorry, Matt.

[426] Matt's such a dick to me. He's such a dick, though.

[427] Like, I'm not even...

[428] No, it's his fault.

[429] What?

[430] Oh, uh, March Corner, my favorite murderershirts .com.

[431] Um...

[432] Go ahead.

[433] What do you want to talk about?

[434] I guess, I think I just had an idea.

[435] Let's hear it.

[436] What about merch of baseball hats with just...

[437] Baseball hats!

[438] With just...

[439] A single face of a murderer on it.

[440] Hey, this is exciting.

[441] An all -new season of only murderers.

[442] in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[443] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[444] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[445] Who killed Saz?

[446] And were they really after Charles?

[447] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[448] This season, murder hits close to home.

[449] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[450] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[451] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[452] Who knows what will happen, once the cameras start to roll.

[453] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[454] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[455] Goodbye.

[456] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[457] Absolutely.

[458] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[459] Exactly.

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[461] sales.

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[475] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[476] Goodbye.

[477] Like a drawling or like a fucking sketch?

[478] I think it would have to be a drawing.

[479] Drawling.

[480] Don't, don't nobody steal this.

[481] I swear to fucking God, if I see this on E, if I see this on fucking Etsy, I don't come to your house.

[482] This means we have tonight, Sunday, we have till Thursday to fucking make this goddamn happen.

[483] Stephen, Steven, mute it.

[484] Stephen, Stephen.

[485] Cat Solan, get on this.

[486] Please.

[487] Wouldn't you wear just like, baseball hat's a great idea?

[488] Because, right, a black hat and then just Albert Fish's face on it.

[489] What if it was, what I'm talking about?

[490] What if it was one of those beaniees that you pull over your face and it has the eye in the mouth?

[491] Those are called balaclavas.

[492] And it just said my favorite murderer is and you just pull it and it's just like a thing that says Albert fish.

[493] This is intellectual copyright property.

[494] We own this.

[495] Own it.

[496] And we can prove it in a court of law.

[497] Don't you steal the balaclava idea?

[498] We will come.

[499] What's it called?

[500] Balaala.

[501] The thing that you pull over that like bank robbers use?

[502] I didn't know that's what it was called.

[503] Yeah.

[504] We will come to every 50 fucking state and fucking track you down.

[505] Except for the one.

[506] Except for the one that I refuse to go to.

[507] Maine.

[508] Just kidding.

[509] It's not.

[510] It's not.

[511] It's no way, man. They got fucking lobsters.

[512] Anyway, I actually love Maine and I've wanted to go there since I was a kid because I used to read these books called Meg.

[513] I think it was called Meg of Maine.

[514] And it was going.

[515] I think that was what it was called.

[516] I would go to fucking Maine so hard.

[517] Yeah.

[518] Let's just add a weird tour.

[519] Let's have a weird tour called We Do What We Do What We Want.

[520] There's not enough people to fill whatever fucking venue.

[521] No one's interested.

[522] Nobody cares.

[523] They don't fucking like you.

[524] They're just trying to make a fucking living.

[525] We're going to go to Maine.

[526] We're going to go to Oneida, New York.

[527] We're going to go to Montreal where they don't like anything.

[528] We're going to go to down to Irvine, California, which is the worst thing that ever happened in my fucking life.

[529] Yep.

[530] Wouldn't it be amazing to go to Irvine and not sell any tickets?

[531] Oh my God, amazing.

[532] Just be like, um, it's just all, you know, every girl who made fun of me in elementary school gets in for free.

[533] Yeah.

[534] And they and they get a front of the whole thing.

[535] They text and talk to each other.

[536] That'd be, God, this is turning into like an Albert Brooks movie.

[537] We, an Albert Fish movie.

[538] Oh my God, an Albert Fish Productions.

[539] That's the best name for a production company and it's just a cartoon of him with all those pins inside of him.

[540] Oh my God.

[541] He's so gross.

[542] All right.

[543] Do we have to do the murder part?

[544] This is so fun.

[545] There are those who say we do have to do it.

[546] Last time, you?

[547] Who went first?

[548] You pointed at me and then moved your finger towards yourself.

[549] Because I was just kind of ready to go with whatever you said.

[550] I do love that in the live episode.

[551] At the venue, we were like how to ask the audience.

[552] Who went first last time?

[553] And a bunch of people like, care, Georgia, like they knew.

[554] I know.

[555] That's so sweet.

[556] It's, uh, because they know we don't know anything.

[557] That was so fun.

[558] That's so fun.

[559] They're also fucking, I can't, I'm going to cry.

[560] It was the best.

[561] This is another thing of.

[562] I can't deal with this being a thing.

[563] It's fun.

[564] Oh, I was just going to say this.

[565] There were a couple people who tweeted about how mean I was to the girl who I yelled at because she said she couldn't see and asked for Patsy to be put down.

[566] But she was.

[567] What you couldn't see was that I was making faces at her after I yelled at her that made it funny.

[568] But then also, she was in line after the show and she walked up and said, I'm the one you yelled at.

[569] And I go, I'm sorry.

[570] And she goes, I love her.

[571] did.

[572] She put an Instagram up of that.

[573] If you go to our Instagram and then you, you, there's a hashtag of my favorite murder and there's like a bunch of life photos and she writes one of one of them like, she told me to shut up.

[574] I was just like, she's so sweet and just like, I mean, she had a moment with you.

[575] That's right.

[576] Also, that's the kind of moment you get to have with me. Pretty much like that and nothing else.

[577] It's like don't, don't need or want more.

[578] I can't give you anything.

[579] And the craziest thing to me is someone who wasn't there said at one hour and 15, minutes in.

[580] Did I hear Guy Brenham laugh?

[581] Oh, we got like seven of those.

[582] That's, that's amazing.

[583] Yeah.

[584] And then you did.

[585] Because there's people who are Guy Branham, who is our friend, and he's also a co -host of Pop Rocket, which is a very popular podcast.

[586] But also, he's a well -known comedian, and he has the most distinctive laugh that makes you want to start laughing.

[587] Yeah.

[588] It's amazing.

[589] He's so nice.

[590] Like, this is how low it is in L .A., but he remembered my name when he met after he met me. And Vince is the same way, too, where it's like, he didn't have to remember our name like that's how low it is where it's like you remembered my name he's so nice you're just looking for some decency yeah yeah he read uh how to do things with friends and and then remember them he wrote he read that book yeah uh all right i just coughed and burped at the same time but i just want to say i want to delay this one more minute class act because i have defiance disorder is that a thing yeah i have it too yeah i don't know what it is it's just that can't do what people want you to do.

[591] Oh my God, I fucking have that.

[592] Yeah.

[593] It makes sense with both of us.

[594] It does.

[595] I'm learning a lot from you though.

[596] I have it very bad.

[597] I'm learning that it's okay from you.

[598] It is.

[599] I mean, it's fine because everybody has something.

[600] I once had a fucking soccer coach when I was like in junior high hold his fist up to my face and say you need to stop fucking being defiant.

[601] And I was like, fuck you.

[602] Did you walk away?

[603] Yeah.

[604] The hell Jagger.

[605] That's right.

[606] He's probably a fucking child killer.

[607] I was just going to say that's the show I'm working on right now is Guy Branham's show.

[608] Yeah.

[609] That's the, um, sorry, yeah.

[610] It just makes, it's, I don't have to be secret about it because I'm happy that Guy Brennan gets to have a show and it's going to be on true TV in like probably spring called Talk Show the Game Show.

[611] It's going to be awesome.

[612] That reminds me from BoJack Horseman of, uh, what was it like, celebrities.

[613] Do they know anything?

[614] What do they know?

[615] Let's find out.

[616] Um, that's, Guy Branden deserves a show so much.

[617] So much.

[618] That guy is, he's a fucking lawyer.

[619] Literally.

[620] Literally.

[621] What?

[622] Yes, he is a law degree.

[623] Shut the fuck up.

[624] Yeah, yeah.

[625] He's smarter than everybody.

[626] Jesus.

[627] Yeah.

[628] National fucking treasure.

[629] And murder time.

[630] Okay.

[631] So remember we were talking about national parks and how everyone gets murdered in them constantly?

[632] And it's like, what the fuck?

[633] I have one for you today that I never heard about.

[634] And then I, you know, okay, they looked it up.

[635] Okay, here's the name of the fucking state park.

[636] It's called Starved Rock State Park.

[637] So immediately you're like, oh, shit.

[638] Can I guess where it is?

[639] Yeah.

[640] It's not, but, you know, they're probably real close to each other.

[641] Thank you.

[642] Did you see the memes of one made of?

[643] It's a photo of what, like, Wyoming, and it says, over the top.

[644] And whatever state is next to Wyoming.

[645] That's what you said.

[646] I can't pretend.

[647] I cannot pretend to know.

[648] Listen, we're so smart in certain things.

[649] Oh, and so dumb in most things.

[650] And yet defiant as fuck.

[651] So that's why.

[652] Fuck you.

[653] That's why we're still not starting this murder TV show.

[654] God damn it.

[655] Okay.

[656] Star Rock State Park.

[657] It's a state park.

[658] It's a hundred miles outside of Chicago.

[659] The reason it's named this, okay, so it's a rock fortress on the Illinois River, a band of, and I'm going to say this wrong, and sound like such a fucking asshole.

[660] Illenewic Indians live there originally in the 17th.

[661] And then in the 17th century, they're besieged by a bunch of, fucking assholes, they, like, kind of lock them in.

[662] And so the people who didn't die by trying to escape, the Indians were, died from starving.

[663] So, fuck.

[664] Yeah, dude.

[665] Okay.

[666] Yeah.

[667] So, do you might, will you show me the name?

[668] Do you mind if I see it?

[669] Oh, yeah.

[670] Here, go ahead.

[671] Oh, yeah.

[672] I bet that's some, I bet that's right.

[673] Illeneweck.

[674] Illinois, Illinois, Indians.

[675] Or Aligniwick.

[676] I mean, that's one of the other, I have no idea.

[677] I'm just giving options.

[678] you're probably right.

[679] This is from on our Drunk History episode, and we did on Lewis and Clark, she called them Indrians.

[680] So anything I can do is better than that.

[681] That's right.

[682] You know.

[683] And someone got a tattoo that just says Indrians.

[684] That's so funny.

[685] People are crazy.

[686] Okay.

[687] So on March 14th, 1960, these three suburban housewives, who are from a little bit outside of this area, they're in Riverside.

[688] three suburban housewives go to Star Rock State Park for a long weekend they're all just like let's get the fuck out of here one of the women had like convalester husband through a heart attack they needed to get the fuck out of town they wanted to go and enjoy the area's hiking trails it's apparently gorgeous they're staying at the Star Rock lodge excuse me I burped so this is Lillian Edding Mildred Lindquest they're both 50 and Francis Murphy, who's 47, the young one.

[689] They, they're wives of business executives, their mothers have grown children, and they're prominent in their town for civic involvement, and their friends through the Riverside, Presbyterian Church.

[690] So they're good fucking women, you know?

[691] They're like, we deserve, like, this is their, what's it called?

[692] When they, yeah.

[693] Girls weekend?

[694] Yes.

[695] I just had that feeling.

[696] right as you finish that last sentence.

[697] That they're all going to die?

[698] Well, yeah.

[699] It was the, and you know what that feeling feels like to me when I remember what we're doing?

[700] It feels like when the dentist puts the lead blanket over you when you get your x -rays taken.

[701] So then it's just like, oh, yeah.

[702] And you're like, this lead thing isn't going to do anything, too.

[703] It's like, that lead thing where they're like, this is probably, it's going to maybe, yeah.

[704] But anyway.

[705] Yeah, that's it.

[706] This is the lead blanket of sadness.

[707] Yep.

[708] They check into the lodge.

[709] They put their luggage in their rooms.

[710] And then they have lunch at the lodge as like beautiful restaurant.

[711] And then they're like, we're going to go for a hike, like post -lunch hike.

[712] Okay.

[713] Well, that evening, Lillian's husband is supposed to hear from his wife.

[714] And so he doesn't, and he calls a staff.

[715] And the staff is like, oh, no, we saw them.

[716] But they're not in the room right now.

[717] They'll call you tomorrow.

[718] The next day he calls again.

[719] And the staff again says like, oh, no, you know, we saw them at lunch.

[720] And they're here.

[721] They're just probably out.

[722] and then the next day there's a crazy fucking snowstorm and so this dude, the land's husband named George is like, go into my fucking wife's room and see as she's there they check the rooms their luggage is all packed, their car is still in the same place like they clearly hadn't been there in two days so George calls law enforcement and volunteers come out and they start a search party and at the time this local newspaper reporter hears about it he fucking skedaddles over there and he drives into the park and he comes across some kids near a ravine who are shouting and it turns out this like local camp had been hiking and these like teenage boys found bodies on one of the nearby trails which is like dude you poor kids so what's what's found and the fucking newspaper guy goes up there scoop of the fucking century and it was called the crime of the century for a while he finds the mutilated bodies of Lillian, Mildred, and Francis.

[723] They're laying side by side, partially covered with snow.

[724] They're on their backs under the ledge of a small cave, and their lower clothing had been torn away, and their legs were spread apart, which we know is a fucking sadistic as fuck a way to leave someone.

[725] They had all been beaten viciously on their heads, and two were tied together with heavy twine.

[726] They were covered in blood, and their legs were blackened with bruises.

[727] Poor fucking things.

[728] So because this had happened two days earlier, and then there was a snowstorm, there were several inches of snow covering the whole area, which means all this fucking evidence they could have had was lost.

[729] But they did some digging, and they found a ton of blood beneath the snow, and they found a frozen tree limb that was streaked with blood, and they thought that was the murder weapon.

[730] And then also a trail of blood led from a different area into where the women's body were found, so they thought that the bodies have been dragged and positioned under the sledge.

[731] The coroner said the women had obviously been, obviously been, quote, molested, but they couldn't find any evidence of rape because it had been so long and had been snowing.

[732] Let's see.

[733] And it seems that the time of death was pretty shortly after they had left the lodge after lunch.

[734] Um, and there was no motive for the murders because the women had left all their money and jewelry in their room.

[735] Um, and so maybe the killer got mad when he found out that there was nothing on them.

[736] But the strap to the camera, they brought a camera and binoculars and the strap to the camera was broken.

[737] And there was photos of them like sightseeing on, on the camera, which you can see online.

[738] Oh, so the strap was broken, but the camera is still there.

[739] Yes.

[740] Okay.

[741] So it wasn't robbery.

[742] No, yeah.

[743] Or maybe it was attempted and the women fought back.

[744] something.

[745] So there were no suspects for eight months.

[746] And so the county state attorney whose name was Harold, no, Harland Warren, Harland, that's a fucking amazing name, uses own money and purchases a microscope and begins like doing this crazy study of all the evidence.

[747] Sorry, I missed what year this was.

[748] Oh, 1960.

[749] Oh, okay.

[750] He buys his own microscope.

[751] And also everyone's name is something that's old -fashioned.

[752] It's like, these are all older people in 1960.

[753] So you know, they're all like, you know, from the 30s or whatever.

[754] Exactly.

[755] okay, so he buys his own microscope.

[756] He begins, um, studying the, And he's like, the twine is going to fucking tell me something.

[757] Where is this twine from?

[758] And, um, he finds that there's two kinds of twine, a 20 -ply cord and a 12 -ply cord.

[759] And he starts at the first place he can think of, which is, at the lodge and he brings him to the manager of the cord and he's like, does this look familiar to you?

[760] And it turns out the manager's like, I think those were from the restaurant and they go back into the fucking area where the food is kept in the fucking pantry and there's the fucking twine.

[761] Same fucking twine.

[762] So they don't have to go far to find who ever did this.

[763] They do not.

[764] So they had originally, Warren had originally thought that the killer either worked at or had access to the lodge.

[765] But all the lodge employees had been given polygraph tests and they all passed.

[766] but he calls them back for another round of testing and that is when a former dishwasher named Chester Otto Wager was brought in like that name combination because he has a middle name well yeah they always name the middle name Chester Chester's not a good Wager W -E -G -E -R Wager Chester Wager you don't name your child in a name that has the same two letters at the end on both names Chester Wager oh is that a thing it's my personal thing i see that no i get that i've never thought about that um so he's a former park employee and he had uh quit recently like over the summer to go paint houses with his father but while he was working there he served meals to the police and reporters while they were like looking up for evidence and shit so they give him a light detector test and the tester he's like this really they brought in like a really good tester he they said his food face turned white after during the testing.

[767] Chester walks away and the tester said, that's your man. Ooh.

[768] Yeah.

[769] So Weger is 21.

[770] He's a small man. He has a wife and two young children.

[771] He had resigned that summer and Lodge employees reported seeing scratches on his face, but he had passed several lie detector tests already.

[772] I mean, because ultimately we know that lie detector tests, right, they're 50 -50.

[773] Right.

[774] They're only right.

[775] half the time.

[776] Yeah.

[777] Now we know this.

[778] And there's a reason they're inadmissible in court is because they're, they're not.

[779] They're based on your heart rate.

[780] And if you are like a sociopath or something, you won't have a reaction to, you won't be nervous to tell a lie.

[781] You won't care.

[782] And if you truly believe what you thought you saw.

[783] So like, if this is a witness who's like, I fucking saw a man in a red jacket.

[784] I know I did.

[785] And if they believe that, they're going to not have been being deceitful.

[786] Right.

[787] Even if it's not true.

[788] They won't have the physical.

[789] reaction.

[790] Yeah.

[791] I think someday that, I think someday witness testimony is going to be just like lie detector test where it's like, this isn't admissible because everyone's a little bit wrong.

[792] We're all a little wrong.

[793] I think that's actually a good thing to remember.

[794] Yeah.

[795] Because I always think I remember things.

[796] Always and I'm positive, positive.

[797] And then, and then I'm wrong.

[798] Well, it's the same thing of how people say, like, there's three sides to every story.

[799] Your side, their side and the truth.

[800] And it's like, you know, the argument that you and I got into sounds this way from me. sounds that way from you and you have to be like well somewhere in the middle is really what happened and you can't you have to know that you don't know yeah the other person's this is a psychology podcast it's true though we're so smart I know like how do we but not about states about feelings pardon me I just thought it'd be perfect I was going to make that one quiet but I figured I'm putting my jacket back you're cold it's so loud I know this is not good this is not good for audio stephen have a blanket there's a blanket right there i barely i won't move i peat on it once please are you cold yes caring behind you is a thermostat please turn that heat on right there but the thing that looks like a fire hazard from the 1950s yeah click that little thing up this is worth it kaboom click that up no no no the left the little switch yeah up there you see the fire and the wall right there it's i need to move this is a The night.

[801] My favorite murder got lit on fire.

[802] All right.

[803] Okay.

[804] So they're like, it's totally him.

[805] And then he was like, hey, I have, I just happen to have this buckskin jacket.

[806] And I want to admit that it's covered in, quote, dark stains.

[807] And it later turned out to be human blood on this jacket.

[808] I don't know.

[809] He was just bringing this up.

[810] Yeah, I don't know if that's totally.

[811] you know what how it happened but somehow they found a buckskin jacket that was covered in dark stains that happened to be human blood but in 1960 it could not be typed or matched to a specific victim which is like come on you guys get it to fucking gather they're like we can't it's only 1960 it's just bloodstains at this point we just want to go to the moon that's all we care about it's the 60s you're going to say movies which is actually similar um our parents failed us so he does further policy graph tests again he's fucked and he fails them all so they investigators begin checking into similar cases in the area and they come across a reported rape and robbery that had taken place a mile from starved rock in 1959 the year before a 17 year old girl had been sexually assaulted and she had been um bound with twine similarly to the starved rock women okay and then i you know in all my like weird digging of like old articles and shit.

[812] The one place, I found in one place, this information.

[813] The attack had been reported by two teenagers, a boy and a girl.

[814] The boy said they had been robbed while a girl was sexually assaulted.

[815] They told the cops about it and the officers didn't believe their story and they sent the couple away with a cursory investigation saying that they thought the story was made up.

[816] That they were robbed?

[817] That they were robbed?

[818] than she was fucking sexually assaulted.

[819] They were like, you little lying 17 -year -olds, get the fuck out of here.

[820] You know what I mean?

[821] Like, why would you fucking make that up?

[822] Let's get attention.

[823] Yeah.

[824] I mean, that's what they used to say stuff like that back then, right?

[825] Yeah.

[826] So maybe they should have paid attention to that.

[827] Anyways, so the female victim has brought a stack of mug shots.

[828] She's sorting through them.

[829] And when she sees the photo of Chester, she starts to scream.

[830] Oh, fuck.

[831] Which is so chilling.

[832] Yeah.

[833] so they get arrest warrant for him on the rape because they can't prove the murders yet so they get him off the streets and then they have him in custody they start questioning him about the rape and then they press him about the murders and they keep him in the interrogation room for hours at 2 a .m. He finally asked to see his family and then he confesses.

[834] But before that, he's like, really quick, though, again, I have a buckskin jacket.

[835] I just wanted you guys to know.

[836] It's the blood from the buck that was fucking killed for this jacket.

[837] I'm just going to bring this up real quick because I want, it's a pretty cool jacket.

[838] Yeah, like, I just want you guys to, like, admire my jacket.

[839] Okay, anyway, I'll go back to my confession.

[840] So he confesses, he says that he got scared.

[841] He tried to grab the women's pocketbooks, and they fought him, and he hit them.

[842] And the pocketbook turned out to be the camera that was around her neck.

[843] He thought it was like a pocketbook.

[844] So he gives them that interesting detail.

[845] Then he says, they were like, why did you drag the women into this ledge, into this cave?

[846] And he says it's because he had spotted a small airplane flying low over the park, and he was afraid it was a state police.

[847] plane.

[848] So he moved the body so that they could not be seen.

[849] And he had said it was a red and white plane.

[850] So a few days later, um, the cops and the detectives go to the airplane base and look at the log books and there's a fucking plane flying over that fucking park at the exact moment that was red and white.

[851] So that's some shit that only he could have known.

[852] Yes.

[853] Right.

[854] And he told on himself.

[855] He fucking, he confessed.

[856] Yeah.

[857] He confessed.

[858] Yeah.

[859] He confessed.

[860] Yeah.

[861] Okay.

[862] But then right after his first meeting with his court -appointed attorney, he changes the story and says that he was innocent of all charges that the investigators had coerced him into confessing and that they fucking held a gun to his head and made him sign every single one of the papers.

[863] I mean, I can see that to you.

[864] I mean, he said, I know, he was so scared that he signed the papers away, saying they had fed him the information about the airplane and he wasn't even in the park at the time of the killings.

[865] He later said, the police at the park saw me every day and I passed every test they gave me but the months went by and they wanted a conviction so they beat me into signing it i wasn't even i wasn't ever at the park when it happened i was done wrong except for when you raped that girl that time chester yeah okay but yeah yes however okay so he's brought to trial uh in 1961 they seek the death penalty a year later they the jury finds him guilty um for one of the murders they only tried him for which is weird Um, maybe they thought they couldn't get him on all three.

[866] Well, it's all the same evidence, you know what I mean?

[867] And then they ended up like not bringing him up on charges for the rape too.

[868] So like this poor girl who was like, you first thought I was fucking lying and now you're not even going to fucking try him for this shit.

[869] Wow.

[870] Poor fucking girl.

[871] But, but if he goes down for those, at least something on the other ones, then he's in jail forever.

[872] Maybe they're, they had to convince her of that.

[873] Yeah.

[874] Okay.

[875] But here's the problem with that.

[876] Oh.

[877] So, um, he sentenced to a term of life in prison.

[878] And then the jurors get dismissed and the reporters asked them if they knew that a life sentence in Illinois meant that Wager would be eligible for parole in a few years.

[879] And it turns out that the normal life sentence for murder in Illinois was 10 years at the time.

[880] What?

[881] Yeah.

[882] I don't know if it still is.

[883] It might still be.

[884] No. The jurors were like, wait, what the fuck?

[885] They were like, we would have fucking sent him away.

[886] Wait, that's like saying every.

[887] Everyone that's going to jail is 70 or something.

[888] It doesn't make any sense.

[889] A life sentence is the hardest quotes that have ever been quoted.

[890] Life sentence is such bullshit.

[891] It makes you feel and think a certain thing.

[892] It's not fucking true.

[893] Seven fucking years.

[894] It's like you're eligible for parole immediately and you just keep fucking, it's just not a thing.

[895] A life sentence is not a thing.

[896] A life sentence is not a thing.

[897] You are foolish.

[898] Life sentence is like, is a, is a, um, wait, can I just remind you that lawyers listen to this.

[899] Okay.

[900] All right.

[901] I just, would you want me to text guy right now?

[902] Text guy.

[903] The, the idea of a life sentence.

[904] Wait, this is my favorite.

[905] We're going, we're going outside the podcast.

[906] It's like, um, we're doing an outside line.

[907] A life sentence.

[908] I want to call a friend.

[909] A lawyer.

[910] I'm doing it.

[911] A life sentence means life sentence.

[912] But in actuality, in a majority of states, it really just is, it's a sentence, but it's not an actual, what's the word?

[913] It's not going to give you 50 to 75 years like it would take up a person's life.

[914] Exactly.

[915] You're not actually going to be in prison for your life.

[916] All right.

[917] Both of you on your phones now.

[918] I just want to fucking point out.

[919] I mean, no, I'm just texting.

[920] I'm texting the outside line.

[921] Can I ask you a question?

[922] We're just going to see if guys even available.

[923] Stephen, what did you find?

[924] I found that it was much more complicated than I thought it was.

[925] What does it say?

[926] I thought life imprisonment was life.

[927] No, the first thing was on a message board.

[928] It just said, that's a really good question.

[929] What is life imprisonment in Illinois?

[930] Oh, you didn't get an answer?

[931] Yeah, I didn't get an answer.

[932] Read the whole thing right now.

[933] It just says that.

[934] Okay.

[935] Well, we know that it changes state to state, right?

[936] But I also know.

[937] But this is Illinois specific.

[938] Right.

[939] So, I mean, the jurors were set.

[940] Like, do you know that life imprisonment, um, a life sentence in Illinois means that he'd be eligible for parole in a few years.

[941] So that's the thing.

[942] You get life in prison and then you're fucking eligible for parole.

[943] And in this case, in Illinois, get parole after 10 years.

[944] Oh, okay.

[945] So that's right?

[946] Well, I mean, is that what you're about to tell me?

[947] He got parole?

[948] No. Oh.

[949] No. No, no, no, no. Blob -de -blah.

[950] So they said they would have given the electric chair.

[951] Oh, shit.

[952] Blah, blah, blah.

[953] So So, okay, let's see.

[954] The whole prosecution was based on his confession, which predated Miranda warnings that are required today.

[955] Wow.

[956] I didn't realize Miranda warnings were that recent.

[957] Yeah.

[958] Okay.

[959] They're based on a guy named Miranda.

[960] Like how John Wayne's real name is Priscilla.

[961] Is it?

[962] No, it isn't.

[963] Yeah.

[964] Or Miriam.

[965] That's my middle name.

[966] It's a girl name.

[967] What?

[968] Really?

[969] Mm -hmm.

[970] It's Jewish.

[971] Okay, blah, blah, blah.

[972] Okay, so then at some point, so he, from the moment he was in prison, is saying he's fucking innocent.

[973] And that some woman had a deathbed confession that was never like corroborated.

[974] Corroborated?

[975] Cooperated.

[976] He's maintained his innocence.

[977] He's 77, and he is the third longest held inmate in a state prison, having served a life sentence since 1961.

[978] He's been requesting parole.

[979] since 1972, it's 14 times that he's been up for parole.

[980] Wow.

[981] Yeah.

[982] And he's always saying.

[983] And if he said that he did it, he probably would have been paroled because part of getting paroled is accepting responsibility for your crime.

[984] Yeah.

[985] And he fucking refuses to do it.

[986] DNA tests were requested.

[987] But so there was fucking hair found in the victim's fists and the blood stains on the coat.

[988] They were requested testing in 2004, but the, the items had been.

[989] not been properly preserved and thus no longer had held evidentiary value, which seems like bullshit, right?

[990] Like you can fucking find it in there somewhere.

[991] Well, but it sounds like what they're saying is like instead of putting it in a Ziploc bag, they put it in one of those sandwich bags that folds over at the top where it's like those don't work for sandwiches.

[992] Why are they going to work for evidence?

[993] Well, I, you know, I look this case up on Facebook to see if anyone was like talking about it as her hometown murder.

[994] And one guy whose name I fucking can't remember was like, this is my hometown murder and these items the jacket and the fucking branch that had been used to kill them were brought to schools to show children.

[995] No. Yeah.

[996] And so and like...

[997] The buckskin jacket comes back?

[998] Yeah.

[999] Like the guy was like, the guy worked for the innocent project, innocence project and he was like, the reason these fucking things couldn't be tested is because one of the fucking investigators had like one of the pieces of evidence on his wall as a trophy and these got brought like his, the guy was like my mom remember is these being brought into school.

[1000] you could, like, touch them and fucking learn about the murder.

[1001] Just get as many little kid fingerprints on there as you possibly can.

[1002] It's pretty smart if that's a fucking tactic.

[1003] Yeah, because this was back when, yeah.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] No one knew.

[1006] So, it was so recent.

[1007] He, well, as less than a month ago, he was up for parole again.

[1008] Jesus.

[1009] How old is this motherfucker?

[1010] 77.

[1011] He was up for parole again, and he got denied.

[1012] And one of the only living jurors left, Nancy Porter, who's 92, said, that she now finds the confession implausibles because she thought that Wager, who was unarmed, who was only five foot eight, could have been overpowered by the three women, which I think is such bullshit.

[1013] That's not how fucking crimes work.

[1014] Like you intimidate these three, you know, quiet women who go along with what you're telling them to do and intimidate them.

[1015] Like, it doesn't matter how big you are.

[1016] No, no, no, no. That's like, that's like acting like every crime situation is the same.

[1017] And if this person is a criminal, he could, have lured them to a spot cracked one of them on the head scared the shit out of the other two like who knows he tied two of them together so you're overpowering two of them the weather woman's not going to leave i mean it's not like they're going to fucking ninja him like you know overpower him and that's the same thing with the um richard speck case where he went into they couldn't understand how he right there was so many women in this room and he he kept them all in that room and then took them out one by one and murdered them and nobody and it's like because it's a psychological thing he scared the shit out of them he scared them and he kept saying probably if you go along with what i'm trying to do i'll let you go i'll let you go and so that you know especially back then when you got to be fucking polite to everyone you go along with it hoping you'll be spared you just want this situation to end yeah i mean that yeah that's crazy yeah okay so silver lining um so the crime lab is now one of the finest in the state um because of the shoddy work from the starbrock case and someone said this state crime lab was less equipped than a high school chemistry lab at the time and this is from Steve Stout who wrote a book called The Star of Rock Murders This crime is more important than NOS because it changed the system of criminal investigation in Illinois And then I went on Reddit and there was a guy who said There was a guy named a woman named Bed Pan 3 I know I don't know what's going out with her You know she's a woman Because she says my, well maybe not She says my husband and I fucking assumed Oh, right, right.

[1018] You know, I can be like, I mean, not trying to.

[1019] Come on, everybody.

[1020] She says there's a huge, like there was a bedpan, a bedpan one, and a bedpan too already taken.

[1021] The other two, no. This is the third best bedpan.

[1022] Yeah.

[1023] This is a huge, there's a huge number of people from this town in my surrounding area that think he was a scapegoat.

[1024] Her ex's husband's grandfather was a judge during the time, though not during this trial, and told me that there was no way in hell he did the crime.

[1025] The bodies, from what I remember, reading had animal slash dog bites that were just left unexplained.

[1026] Theories include that a business owner who was from another nearby town who had a very, had very large well -trained dogs, was a possibility because he inexplicably immigrated back to his home country right after the murders leaving his entire family behind.

[1027] Another theory is that the women's wealthy Chicago businessman husbands paid someone to have them killed in the park for various and nefarious reasons.

[1028] The only real consensus is that pretty much no one at the time or years later believed it was Wager?

[1029] I don't think it's the husband having them killed because the way they're mutilated and left with their legs open.

[1030] And if Wager was a rapist and was the rapist that raped that girl, it would be more in line with a person who is a rapist, has issues with women.

[1031] Sexually deviant.

[1032] Yeah.

[1033] And basically is escalating.

[1034] I don't disagree with the fact that it sounds like if I didn't know any of the suspects, I would think it was at least two people.

[1035] Yeah.

[1036] You know?

[1037] Yeah, but who knows?

[1038] You crack somebody over the head with a stick when you're in, and you're, you're with your two friends.

[1039] Yeah.

[1040] Somebody gets cracked over the head and then you're like, and suddenly there's like some wild man that's like, sit down and I have to tie you up and, I mean, it's over.

[1041] He probably did it.

[1042] Yeah, he probably did it.

[1043] But the, it is interesting, that whole thing of like, you can't.

[1044] really based it on what the polygraph says and you can't and you do have to be suspect now what we know these days of how police uh interrogations used to go um we've all seen la confidential um it's a pity that dna can't figure this one out yeah that's amazing that's such a good story yeah starve rock murders and also such a creepy name starved rock murders oh for sure yeah yeah is it starve or starving starved starved past tense.

[1045] Starved.

[1046] Starved.

[1047] Like they did.

[1048] Yeah, but it can't be, what, if it's the twine from the, from the restaurant.

[1049] And, you know, so was someone else who worked there.

[1050] It probably wasn't.

[1051] It could have been someone else.

[1052] Yeah, I mean, he's still alive and he's trying to get out.

[1053] It's this, it's the line cook.

[1054] Yeah, it's always a line cook.

[1055] It's not the dishwasher.

[1056] It's always a sous chef.

[1057] He just wants to be the head chef.

[1058] He's got a fun mustache, and you're like, I love that guy.

[1059] And he's like, Stephen.

[1060] I'm so sick of chopping celery You fucking take your mere paw and shove it Put a chive on it Okay So mine this week Is A worrisome Because it's the case That I brought up The week before last And I didn't really know anything about it But I just wanted to cite it to you And it was the Sherry -Papini case Yes So it's an amazing thing because I went into such a black hole on the internet today that I had that thing happen where I was reading, it was light outside when I was reading.

[1061] And the next thing I knew it was pitch black in my house.

[1062] Yeah, because you didn't get up to turn any lights on.

[1063] Exactly.

[1064] And I hadn't really looked around so that when I looked up, it was like I was sitting in a pitch black room.

[1065] It was kind of scary.

[1066] That's really depressed.

[1067] Honestly, it's like one of my depression triggers.

[1068] Yes.

[1069] Where you like, where you let?

[1070] just the light fade away.

[1071] I jumped up and turned a lamp on.

[1072] I have dogs.

[1073] It wasn't too bad.

[1074] If anyone had looked at the window and seen what you were looking, like reading about, they'd be like, what the, I'm not killing this girl.

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] She's crazy.

[1077] She's going to kill me. But here's the, because the reason that it was, you know, hours and hours of reading and all these different websites is because this case goes, has so many levels.

[1078] And it is crazy.

[1079] like when I first started talking to you about it I just wanted to kind of be like it's that crazy case and it's got some twists and turns but because I didn't really know specifics I kind of was like just gave up well I love that I really don't know I know that everyone's talking about it you mentioned it to me I love that you're filling me in on every like I have enough I just want to fucking hear this I'm excited all right so I'll give you the I'll give you the overview okay but essentially what we're talking about here um in one way and this is what people are being so careful about it because yeah there's no proof that it's anything but a woman who has been victimized.

[1080] And what I really like about that is that there are people who are being so fastidious as to make sure that no one is accusing a victim of a crime of doing anything.

[1081] Um, that being said, there is insane amounts of evidence that something is wrong with this case.

[1082] Like it's really suspicious.

[1083] It's very suspicious and it's not, um, it's just interesting.

[1084] So, we will talk about facts and I'll just try to be very clear about what facts are as opposed to hearsay or anything and just try to remind you every seven minutes that we're talking about a victim and that this isn't you know in nowhere we're trying to like give an opinion about this I just find this case to be incredibly fascinating okay so here's here's what we know um it's a woman named sherry peppini who is 34 year old married mother of two who's a lives in Redding, California, disappeared while she was jogging on November 2nd.

[1085] And she reappeared three weeks later on the side of Highway 5 before dawn on Thanksgiving Day, 150 miles away from where she was taken.

[1086] She was beaten.

[1087] She was bloody.

[1088] And her hands were chained behind her back.

[1089] Fuck.

[1090] Yeah.

[1091] She told police that she had been kidnapped by two Hispanic women in a van who tortured and starved her.

[1092] No. Okay.

[1093] Go on.

[1094] Um, so after she was found, her husband, Keith, gave interviews to both Good Morning America and 2020.

[1095] Wait, I'm, okay.

[1096] Already questions.

[1097] She said that the entirety of her captive, her being captured was by two Hispanic women.

[1098] Yes.

[1099] The entirety of it.

[1100] Yep.

[1101] Let's just go with the facts on.

[1102] Um, on those interviews, Keith hit, her husband said his wife's captors to Latino women, kept their faces covered, spoke, Spanish the majority of the time.

[1103] They beat her, they broke her nose, they cut her hair, they starved her.

[1104] He claimed that Sherry had lost 15 % of her body weight and that the captors, quote, unquote, branded her, which led to speculation that the kidnapping was part of a sex trafficking operation.

[1105] So after she was found, a woman saw her, again at 4 a .m. on the side of the road, called 911.

[1106] She gets taken to the hospital.

[1107] Um, and her injuries include bruises, a broken nose, burns, and starvation, um, but she was discharged several hours later.

[1108] She tells police that she was held captive.

[1109] Um, and she describes the two Latinas as one being old, one being young.

[1110] One had curly hair.

[1111] One had straight hair.

[1112] One had thin eyebrows.

[1113] One had thick eyebrows.

[1114] Um, once she was released from the hospital, She and her family left Redding, the town that she lives in, for an undisclosed location to avoid media attention.

[1115] And Sherry herself has not been seen by the media since her disappearance.

[1116] Shut up on Thanksgiving.

[1117] Yes.

[1118] Since, like, she's basically not been seen by the media at all.

[1119] So they've seen the pictures of her, which are from her wedding day, which are seven years prior.

[1120] So she hasn't given any interviews or hasn't been seen.

[1121] No, just her husband.

[1122] Wow.

[1123] So her husband went on 2020 and Good Morning America, and he told the whole story for her.

[1124] And which makes sense for a victim who is traumatized and needs to be away from everything.

[1125] Yeah, but does he...

[1126] But did he need to do that?

[1127] Well, true.

[1128] Like, if that's the case and she doesn't want to be, it needs to be away from it.

[1129] Well, they...

[1130] And that's what they told people is basically she got out of the hospital and then they left town and told everybody that they are doing it to avoid the media and then he relatively soon after goes on both two major national television shows.

[1131] Okay.

[1132] Do you want to, okay.

[1133] I'm going to hold my comments.

[1134] All right.

[1135] Yeah.

[1136] Just accrue it and listen because it's interesting.

[1137] So there are actually websites that normally dive right into cases like this, the kind of Nancy Grace style cases, who will not entertain anything except for that Sherry Pippini is a victim and anybody saying anything different, that's the, like, you can't talk about that, which is a stance.

[1138] I mean, it's just like a way to do it.

[1139] But of course, Reddit is not like that because Reddit entertains anything at all times and you can say what you want.

[1140] And so there's, Reddit is the place I found a lot of this information.

[1141] Cool.

[1142] The Shasta County Sheriff actually recently came out to say he believes Sherry Papini's story.

[1143] But he said that in direct conflict with an earlier statement where the sheriff's office communications officer said they weren't ruling anything out.

[1144] So no one knows if he said that to fix what somebody that was just basically answering the phone and talking to the Huffington Post said.

[1145] Or what?

[1146] But there hasn't been much movement.

[1147] the Shasta County none of the police up there have been warning people they haven't put out in any kind of APB about these two Latino women there haven't been warnings to other women about being careful or this is what you need to look for I think that says a lot yeah okay so basically we'll go over like this is the way the they the timeline problems, essentially.

[1148] Okay.

[1149] So the day that she went jogging, like the day that her husband, Keith, realized that she was missing, he was at work and he came home from work and she wasn't there and the kids weren't there.

[1150] And instead of calling her, he said he because sometimes, I think the reason is, I was confused by this, but basically that sometimes reception is bad up there, which makes sense because it's like way up north of Sacramento.

[1151] Yeah.

[1152] That he pinged her phone instead with Find My iPhone.

[1153] Okay.

[1154] Um, so then he realizes where the phone is and it's a mile away from their house where kind of near where their mailbox is, which is if you've grown up in the country, it's that thing where like your house is way up here on some weird long dusty road and your mailboxes are in a long line with a bunch of other people's mailboxes down the road.

[1155] You go to your mailbox when you're driving up your driveway.

[1156] Exactly right.

[1157] A mile seems far to me, but I don't know.

[1158] Okay.

[1159] And also, this is like, I was looking at a map of Reading, and there's nothing.

[1160] And also, like, the group that neighborhoods, like, put mailboxes together.

[1161] It has nothing to do with where your house is, kind of, right?

[1162] Exactly.

[1163] Yeah, because neighborhoods don't exist there.

[1164] It's, like, all these houses just kind of, like, they're probably ranch -style houses spread out.

[1165] Fuck that, man. So.

[1166] I want neighbors to hear me scream.

[1167] Scary at night.

[1168] Yep.

[1169] Um, so he says he called his mother and he, um, I can't remember, but basically it's just this weird thing of why wouldn't you just call her phone.

[1170] Yeah.

[1171] And like, okay.

[1172] So, um, he basically, he pings her phone, finds it, uh, and it's at the corner of sunrise drive and old Oregon trail.

[1173] And when he gets there, he immediately takes a picture of it.

[1174] It's sitting...

[1175] Of her phone?

[1176] Of her phone.

[1177] Why would he do that?

[1178] It's sitting with...

[1179] You're just going to keep saying that.

[1180] I know.

[1181] No, no, no, you can't.

[1182] But I'm just saying there's a lot of that.

[1183] Yeah.

[1184] There's headphones sitting on top of the phone.

[1185] On top of them.

[1186] Very neatly, it says.

[1187] And he takes a picture of it.

[1188] So the police said that it looked staged.

[1189] They commented on that early that said it looked staged.

[1190] But he didn't touch the phone.

[1191] He like, whatever.

[1192] And a lot of people on these threads were talking.

[1193] talking about if your significant other was missing in a way that you really felt was real, you would grab that phone and start looking at what are the last calls, texts, anything.

[1194] All right.

[1195] So then he files a missing person's report and in all, in every way he talks about her instead of saying kidnapped or missing, he keeps using the word taken.

[1196] Liam Nason style.

[1197] Okay.

[1198] So then they put up five days after she goes missing.

[1199] they put up sherry pipini .com and it's a website five days.

[1200] I'm sorry, go ahead.

[1201] It's just a website about the whole case.

[1202] Please help us find her.

[1203] She's missing with her picture and everything else.

[1204] All the information, what she's wearing and the whole thing.

[1205] And 10 days after that, this letter goes up on that website and it's from an anonymous donor and it says that it says like I'm an anonymous donor.

[1206] I'm offering an undisclosed reward for Sherry's immediate release.

[1207] My middleman is Cameron Gamble, who's an international negotiator, who also happens to live in Redding.

[1208] The fuck.

[1209] Right.

[1210] So this is, I think this is the part.

[1211] Now, separate from people saying, please protect a victim who has been victimized.

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] But this is the part where everyone's like, this thing stinks to high heaven.

[1214] Because when you go on, there's a really great article that was on The Daily Beast, called um like things you should know about the shady private investigator involved in the sherry popini case and it's amazing because it's all about him and how like it's really there's lots of great information there's videos that he has on his website cameron gamble .com is he a creep um he's a guy that's trying like he has uh his organization it's supposedly a non -profit profit organization called Project Taken and it's about it's about warning women or like telling women what to do in case someone tries to kidnap them what the fuck so all of these things are like just they just are very suspect it's just all very a little bit like a movie and a little bit I don't think so too coincidental very coincidental and also in the best case scenario what this person did in this anonymous donor that put this letter up on their website was basically trying to circumvent law enforcement and say, if you have her, I will give you money, just bring her back.

[1215] Is it no questions asked?

[1216] Oh, no, you can do that phrase.

[1217] But it's basically saying we don't have to deal with the police.

[1218] Like, if you can have the money, just bring her back.

[1219] Which pisses the police off so much, because if that's actually the case, then other women are in danger and you have not.

[1220] You can't do it that way.

[1221] you've just eliminated all the suspects because you're being a fucking asshole well it just it doesn't work that way it doesn't and it's like somebody making up a new way to do it and then going like i'm anonymous i'm anonymous the amount of money is anonymous please use my middleman yeah none of those things i think are really line up and then it goes against law enforcement okay so um so basically then uh three weeks And, you know, since that, since she goes missing, three weeks pass, and on the morning of Thanksgiving, she's spotted at 4 a .m. next to the highway near Woodland, a city called Woodland, which I don't remember from living up there, with her arms chain behind her back.

[1222] This woman sees her trying to, like, she said it looked like she was trying to, like, flag her down, like, wave something.

[1223] I don't know how she would do that with her arms behind her back.

[1224] But the woman calls 911.

[1225] And she's taken to the hospital.

[1226] So in, oh, and when he, when the woman describes her in this 911 call, she says she has long blonde hair.

[1227] So, oh, after the, after she's found and the family asks for privacy, several family members grant a daily mail interview, which is the British newspaper, I believe.

[1228] And someone also sells a picture of her kids on.

[1229] on Thanksgiving to the Daily Mail.

[1230] And then, of course, her husband does both interviews.

[1231] Do they know who sold it?

[1232] Or is it anonymous?

[1233] They say family members.

[1234] There's no one specifically named.

[1235] In his 2020 interview, her husband Keith says, her signature long blonde hair had been chopped off.

[1236] But she was described as having long hair by the 911 collar.

[1237] And a lot of people bring up, like, who has?

[1238] signature long blonde signature as to as compared to what like it's not she's not like you know gwyneth paltrow or whatever it's she's a mom and even if it is it's like why did the caller describe her as having that and he said the exact this guy seems to pick up phrases that sound um coerce or not coerced uh like rehearsed yeah thank you but also just weird like it's that thing where people get a weird feeling and that's the thing that like i what we're now talking about that are in direct contention with each other is the weird feeling you have when you think someone's lying versus a victim trying to tell their story and i'm not everything i've heard doesn't it's it makes the husband sound suspicious not her right she it sounds like this fucking happened to her well yeah i don't think like nothing makes me think that this that she isn't actually a legitimate victim So basically when he gives these interviews, there's experts that are experts in like whatever reaction or whatever facial reaction recognition or whatever that say his crying is completely fake.

[1239] Like he does these things where he bursts out into tears, but he makes the noises and his eyes get a little bit red, but there's no actual streaming tears.

[1240] That whole fucking study is fascinating to me. I love that shit.

[1241] yeah like micro expressions and stuff like that like the way they know people are lying amazing it's pretty interesting but i also think that that's interesting because that happens on tv shows a lot where people are supposed to be crying like in acting but it's a really hard thing to do to fake cry it's really hard even if you mean it and want to do it so like you can but we're all used to it where it's like people like i just really you know and you make the noise you can do the voice and everything but to get the stuff to come out of your eyes is really hard to do Yeah, but you can still see it.

[1242] Like, I have a really hard time crying, and there's moments where I'm like, it's okay to do this thing, but you're trying so hard not to, but you can hear it in the voice, right?

[1243] Well, the key, the key of real crying, I learned this in an acting class one time.

[1244] Tell me. It's trying not to cry, because that's the real thing people do.

[1245] Try not to.

[1246] No one ever wants to really cry.

[1247] So sitting and I don't know this man and who knows what's really happening, none of us know, again, I'm just going to keep saying, none of us know what's really happening.

[1248] but most of the time if you're being interviewed and you're talking about something that happened to a person and also he'd already gotten his wife back home so she hadn't died and yes she had been a victim of something terrible but he was acting like he was sobbing but he wasn't actually sobbing which is just not a natural thing for people to, especially a man I'm sorry to say they have less permission to have emotions you do a thing where you're like sorry give me one second and you rein it back in and then you continue to talk And it's like, just give me a moment.

[1249] And you think that they're going to cut it out or something of the...

[1250] We've all seen all of these shows a million times.

[1251] All of these shows.

[1252] You know what it's...

[1253] It's they talk and then their lip moves in a weird way.

[1254] And then the eyes go and the water is there.

[1255] Yeah.

[1256] And their voice breaks.

[1257] Their voice breaks.

[1258] They're embarrassed about it.

[1259] And it's a very hard thing to fake.

[1260] They're trying to get a point across and they can't.

[1261] And guess what?

[1262] Again, all of this theory.

[1263] Okay.

[1264] So, in his...

[1265] Uh, interview for 2020.

[1266] He calls people who would doubt Sherry's story subhuman.

[1267] Okay.

[1268] Um, he doesn't call her attackers anything.

[1269] What?

[1270] Yeah.

[1271] That's amazing.

[1272] But it's, um, he also said when he was on Good Morning of America, he said, I understand people want the story, pictures, proof that this was not some sort of hoax, plan to get money or fabricate a race war.

[1273] I do not see a purpose in addressing each preposterous lie.

[1274] Yes.

[1275] brought up a race war initially he did no no no this is him and that's the thing that everybody was saying of just like of all those other things yes yes yes we get it you don't have to address every life you're right what wait why are we talking about a race war what the fuck on good morning fucking America this should have vetted this shit out of him so okay now we're going back to this idea which is a real fucking thing that happens in this country sex trafficking it's horrifying.

[1276] It really happens.

[1277] Totally.

[1278] It's still kind of mysterious.

[1279] Nobody really knows what it looks like, what it means.

[1280] It's very like nobody knows who it happens to and it happens to people that don't, that it's not, why, it's not people, aren't visible.

[1281] Yeah, aren't visible.

[1282] It's not, yeah.

[1283] So we're all like, it never happens because it happens to people who are victims to begin with.

[1284] Yes, that's right.

[1285] Runaway kids.

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] But the thing that that's true is, it usually happens to younger women.

[1288] This woman, is 30, sorry I said it, 32, 36.

[1289] People who won't miss the victims or won't be believed when they said that there's a victim.

[1290] That's right.

[1291] It's a runaway, you know, people who are at risk.

[1292] At risk, yeah.

[1293] And under something, something.

[1294] So, but the other thing is, she, she, she, one of her injuries that was reported is that she was burned.

[1295] as if she, it liked, you know, as if she was branded for the sex trafficking.

[1296] But real sex trafficking is, the branding is just a word that they use for it.

[1297] They tattoo them.

[1298] Right.

[1299] They don't brand them like cattle.

[1300] Because they want them to, they want to sell these women.

[1301] They don't want to ruin their, okay.

[1302] No, that's exactly right.

[1303] Well, A, they don't want to ruin their bodies.

[1304] They don't want to cut their long, beautiful blonde hair.

[1305] that's a fucking selling point exactly they don't want to beat them up and break their nose no those are all selling points right but also the idea that someone wouldn't actually know the insider information that tattoos are how you brand not with a brand like quote branding it's like branding as a quote yes what the fuck so so so we're just adding up holes we're just mentioning things or the reason people are suspicious got it so the other now we turn to her social social media.

[1306] Okay.

[1307] Oh my God.

[1308] Excited.

[1309] She had a wedding blog on which she claimed that she had never lived with a man, but she actually had been married and was divorced in 2007.

[1310] Shit.

[1311] So people are citing this as just kind of times before.

[1312] This isn't, she's been described as a super mom, as the best person in the world, as sweet, you know, all American.

[1313] There's this picture that's been painted of her by him in these interviews.

[1314] views and so people are just trying to cite other things that maybe would contradict that inconsistencies exactly and um one of them is that that this very blatant lie that she was basically trying to make it seem like she'd never been married before and it's like well why lie it's not that that's a blight on your fucking personality that makes it that you should be kidnapped it's well it's okay it's not the 1800s so you don't but but this was long before okay um so it's kind of like saying it's just kind of trying to show a thing that maybe this is a person who doesn't have a problem throwing up a lie yeah but it could have been put up her or him this is her this was her wedding blog okay but then i will contradict that just in fairness to say redding is a small town and there could be people that don't like her and are trying to defame her because she is in in this spotlight and she is in a bad place and you know what i want to say like I was engaged before Vince and I got married and at this point in my life I'm like he was really just a boyfriend like it was you know like you get married and you're like this was stupid we were young it's like it wasn't a real marriage and you say it wasn't because it doesn't fucking matter sure that makes sense totally yeah you just you get to write whatever you want on your wedding blog there's plenty of ways to argue the other way for sure now there was a blog post written under her maiden name which is Sherry graph on a skinhead website in 2007.

[1315] And it was a story about her getting jumped by three Latino men and five Latina women and her fighting all of them off.

[1316] And the whole thing was kind of about why can't she be proud of being white.

[1317] Oh, no. So this is where, now, here's the thing.

[1318] Her father says that someone else wrote it and, is being an imposter and trying to make her look bad.

[1319] But I feel like the second you start saying the word skinheads, and that is part of thing.

[1320] Now, this also is, in this like northern central California, this is the area where stuff like this takes place.

[1321] I mean, this is, there is, there probably is a big, there's a huge Latina community there.

[1322] It's actually Reading a parent.

[1323] is like 97 % white.

[1324] Holy shit.

[1325] So now I read that though.

[1326] I mean that might not be exactly right because I read that in all of these posts that I was reading.

[1327] That might not be exact.

[1328] There's definitely a big Latina community because most of these are farming communities.

[1329] And I'm just saying what I'm reading.

[1330] But this, now on Reddit there are all these people who claim to be from Reading and who went to high school with her.

[1331] Oh, my God.

[1332] So basically, I won't get into the, now I realize, I probably shouldn't get into the details of these stories, because this is straight up slander.

[1333] This is gossip.

[1334] There's no way to prove that people went to high school with her.

[1335] There's no way to prove that she wrote that post, actually.

[1336] There's, uh, I don't know if there's any way to prove that she wrote that post.

[1337] They, they can prove that someone with that name wrote that post at that time.

[1338] But they can't prove it was her.

[1339] Fingers on the keys.

[1340] Right.

[1341] All right.

[1342] But, however, it, it ties these two stories together.

[1343] Yes, it just is a, yes, exactly.

[1344] Okay.

[1345] This thing with the people that talk about her, nobody is being malicious.

[1346] Most of the people say, this doesn't seem right.

[1347] And here's what I know about this person.

[1348] But I hope we find out the truth.

[1349] Nobody is on there like in any way.

[1350] But, I mean, but also that's a good way to try to seem trustworthy.

[1351] Yeah.

[1352] Is to not be malicious.

[1353] But most of the people said that in high school, she needed to be the center of attention.

[1354] And she would sometimes pretend to have heart problems if other people were getting too much attention.

[1355] And so one of the stories was they were camping and a girl had hypothermia.

[1356] She was stayed in the lake too long and had hypothermia.

[1357] And as they were rushing her to the hospital, all of a sudden, Sherry had heart palpitations.

[1358] And now she had a problem too.

[1359] it was like there's a couple stories like that where it's like kind of comes out of the blue in a very convenient way okay um again unproven yeah who knows who these people are that are writing this um there was also a woman who was her she wouldn't say what it was specifically she just said uh in the beauty business and she was just saying how one time um sherry had an appointment this just seems like gossip yeah but this is basically like it's times where people people are just saying overreactions, big, big, big swings and behavior, weird shit that that no one can talk about because this person is a victim.

[1360] Right.

[1361] Who knows?

[1362] It leads up to one that is a fact and one that is, that I'm kind of freaked out by.

[1363] Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me. It's the disappearance of a girl named Tara Smith on October 22nd, 1990s.

[1364] then 16 -year -old Tara Smith, a high school student in Redding, California, left home to go jogging, only never to be seen again.

[1365] Tara's father believes that a local man who was Tara's romantic interest may have been responsible for her disappearance.

[1366] He said on the night of her disappearance, she had plans to meet with the then 29 -year -old martial arts instructor, Troy Zink.

[1367] No. To end their relationship, he was married.

[1368] No. And had a child, if not two children, and he had also served a year in jail for rape.

[1369] Oh, my God, please.

[1370] Her father found an unmailed letter in her room after she disappeared that prompted his theories about zinc.

[1371] In the letter, she tells him she knows she'd made a huge mistake.

[1372] She never should have gotten involved with him.

[1373] But this letter was never delivered.

[1374] and rather than give him the letter, we believe she wanted to confront him in person to break it off.

[1375] Zink told authorities that Tara had asked to meet him near her home, and then when they met, demanded $2 ,000 from him, he refused and she got angry.

[1376] And then she asked him to drop her off at the corner of old altruous road and old Oregon Trail.

[1377] No. Eight miles from where Sherry Pippini had been taken.

[1378] That's a long mile.

[1379] That's a lot of miles.

[1380] he said he then went to hang glider hill to pray and he returned home at 1130 p .m. Tara's father went to his house after Tara didn't return, Tara, not Tara, and Tara's father said, Zink is an avid four -wheeler guy.

[1381] He knows the backroads.

[1382] He had five and a half hours to get rid of the evidence.

[1383] He's been smart enough to keep his mouth shut.

[1384] The police have not been able to move ahead with the case.

[1385] It's heartbreaking and very frustrating.

[1386] The guy still lives in Reading.

[1387] Almost 20 years have passed, and he has gotten more comfortable, changed his name, and thinks people have forgotten, but we haven't forgotten.

[1388] And while he was missing, while Sherry was missing, her husband Keith asked Tara Smith's father, Terry, for advice.

[1389] Keith came to me and we spoke for about an hour.

[1390] the father of the missing girl told the magazine.

[1391] I just told him to stay strong for kids and not assume law enforcement has the answers and to push them.

[1392] It was obvious Keith was torn up and I believe he was confident he'd get his wife back.

[1393] Tara Smith was a schoolmate of Sherry Pippini.

[1394] Wait, they went to school together?

[1395] They went to high school together.

[1396] The two girls?

[1397] Yep.

[1398] The girl that disappeared went to high school of Sherry Pippini.

[1399] Fuck.

[1400] Tell me more.

[1401] That's it.

[1402] That's it.

[1403] It's basically It's basically There's no conclusion to be drawn from it Except for that it's an exact parallel Of the same story So we don't know where they are Okay but one could argue that I don't have any feelings Against or For Sherry I just think that the husband Sounds suspicious as fuck I'm not victim I don't It sounds like she was a fucking victim but whether it's of the crime that she that is claimed that she went through or this fucking husband who sounds like a piece of work I don't know I think that this is one of those kinds of stories that anything could be possible like the thing everyone online keeps saying is it's a a total gone girl situation yeah and in that I would say it's that you just don't we just don't know but the thing is it's to me it's what's interesting is law enforcement doesn't seem to be moving overtly forward with any kind of like with anything maybe they're maybe they are and they're just not being like super vocal about it the fact that they haven't warned the community to be on the lookout or to be careful or that this thing is happening to speaks volumes to me yeah and okay so um what was I going to say yeah I don't know the whole thing is just like creepy it's super it's super Super creepy, and there's a lot.

[1404] The thing that's interesting is there's a lot of stuff cropping up.

[1405] Like, when I lived in Petaluma, we would hear gossip all the time about, about Polly Classes family.

[1406] Right.

[1407] Because there was always someone that knew an insider that had something to tell you where it's like, oh, here's the gossip, here's the insider information.

[1408] And that, it's like urban legends where that kind of stuff, people like to talk about it, especially when you don't know what the answer is, theorizing about this.

[1409] and trying to put it together is very satisfying.

[1410] Here's my thing.

[1411] Okay, here's the major thing to me. The thing that sounds more likely is not two Hispanic women kidnapping of mother and wife off the fucking street and solely they're just not doing that.

[1412] What's the other...

[1413] Well, because also the husband said that she said they had their faces covered?

[1414] Right.

[1415] So how did you know their Hispanic or have eyebrows that are a certain way?

[1416] Well, I mean, we don't know how they were covered, but why would you walk up to two people in a car with their faces covered?

[1417] The Hispanic women, it just sounds, it's one of those things where it's, it just sounds, it's so insulting to Hispanic women and I fucking don't see it.

[1418] And then there's this man who maybe has, the husband who maybe has ties to skinhead organizations and wants to fucking deface.

[1419] No, the husband doesn't.

[1420] I know, but I don't know.

[1421] The whole, skinhead website thing says a lot to me. I know, but maybe it's him too.

[1422] But that's before she knew him.

[1423] I just, it sounds so much more likely that the husband who is trying to get a lot of fucking attention and saying really fucking incriminating weird shit and hiring people who, uh, who skirt around law enforcement and has something to do with this is so much more likely than two fucking Hispanic women who have no fucking reason to kidnap this woman and didn't.

[1424] Well, there's no ransom.

[1425] Right, right.

[1426] They let her go.

[1427] There's no, there's no point.

[1428] That's why everybody feels like it stinks.

[1429] There's no point to it.

[1430] It's not like the, the idea that they don't, she's not saying where she was in the meantime.

[1431] There are no details about, there's absolutely no detail that she has given the police about where she was, what happened, what, like, they were saying, somebody was saying, what state was she in, like, were her nails cut?

[1432] Yeah.

[1433] You know, what, what did her clothes look like?

[1434] Were they the same clothes that she left in?

[1435] What almost sounds more likely to me is that these things happen to this woman, these exact things she's saying, it just was someone else and they scared her into saying that it was two Hispanic women.

[1436] I disagree because the list of injuries that she gives, no hospital would let you leave two hours after you arrive.

[1437] It doesn't make sense because if you have burns, that means you might have infection.

[1438] You have to get you, if you've been starved, that means, means you are dehydrated.

[1439] So they have to rehydrate you.

[1440] They need to put antibiotics into you.

[1441] And also, you're in shock.

[1442] You've just had this terrible thing happen to you.

[1443] They're going to do a rape kit, which takes hours and hours.

[1444] Right.

[1445] I mean, unless there's no word about that whatsoever.

[1446] There's absolutely no word about that.

[1447] But they're not going to, it's, it doesn't make sense that a hot, no hospital would let somebody just walk out like, look, I'm fine.

[1448] After the list of like how badly she was beaten and injured.

[1449] The, the victim, to me in this, and the thing I want to protect, is that, is the two Hispanic women narrative.

[1450] I just don't think that's fucking fair.

[1451] Especially with the skin head tie, it pisses me off that she would, that that would be the narrative.

[1452] And then I'll just remind that the skin head tie could be some weird red herring, just to say it.

[1453] Who knows what that is?

[1454] I mean, anyone can write her name, you know, who knows what that was.

[1455] Fuck, man. It's such a, but as you dig into the story, you know, it goes into like when I was in that stuff where it's like, oh, people that went to high school with her said she was this, said she was that.

[1456] But then I'm like, this is gossip.

[1457] This is all gossip.

[1458] This is shitty gossip.

[1459] What would people say about me if, you know, if it was me in the same situation?

[1460] The shit that people say about us would be.

[1461] It would be upsetting.

[1462] But to come back around to the parallel story of a girl she went to high school with that actually did disappear.

[1463] And this is the other thing I will read that someone um someone did say on Reddit that I actually really liked um someone said I actually work with human trafficking victims now and it really pisses me off that the whole world is freaking out over this one woman yet there are thousands of girls that go missing and are sold into sex trafficking every year right here in the U .S and they aren't even in the news I really really hope that they figure all this out and the truth comes out whatever it is Fuck man A fucking men I mean Yeah Shit If it brings light to The fact that sex trafficking Actually does happen That'll be great But I feel like there's a lot of people Who are like Armchair detectives like you and me Who smell a rat Yeah And go there's more to the story And they're not talking Yeah And also oh the last thing is they started to go fund me somebody else started to go fund me and in seven days they made $40 ,000.

[1464] For the family?

[1465] Uh -huh.

[1466] Something fucking smells fishy.

[1467] I mean, and it's in it's in his sister's name.

[1468] This man, this dude like I'm not even looking at her, this fucking dude.

[1469] Well, this dude is saying enough himself to be incriminated.

[1470] Nothing to do with her.

[1471] she might have she might have been a fucking pawn in his game or vice versa or a third choice or a third choice that we don't know it's just so fascinating because when these things get presented on the news I think back to like I saw this just briefly in passing and it was her blonde hair and big smile and this mother is missing and everybody's talking about it across the nation and then it basically is like, okay, here's the story, and then the end.

[1472] And everyone's like, well, wait a second.

[1473] We need to make sure that we fucking update as much as we get, as soon as we get information about this, we need to update it because this is one of the things that you never hear about again.

[1474] And it's like, oh, well, they all went to fucking prison.

[1475] Also, the international kidnapping expert is that part in the middle.

[1476] Oh, my God.

[1477] Someone said this on Reddit, but it's like, this is basically a co -on - Brothers movie.

[1478] It's like these characters, I mean, it doesn't, it's like somebody coming in and being like, I am on behalf of an anonymous donor.

[1479] I am here to say, you can come to me and you don't have to go to the cops, which the cops up there must have lost their fucking shit.

[1480] I have a degree in international kidnapping things.

[1481] I am, uh, my major was Liam Neesoning.

[1482] Karen, that's our new fucking title for, listen.

[1483] Listen, if anyone, gets kidnapped and you need someone to fucking intervene on your behalf Karen and Georgia.

[1484] No, no, no, no. Come right here.

[1485] Karen and Georgia, my favorite murder.

[1486] Like, we are on this with fucking wild speculation, personal experiences.

[1487] There's going to be a lot of we're mad at you for saying this, that, and the other thing.

[1488] But I think this, this story, I think we've cleared it at every level, but this story is fascinating.

[1489] You can't deny.

[1490] There's something else going on and it's fascinating.

[1491] mother fuckers everyone's a mother what is fucking wrong with people just like live your fucking life i'm sorry i'm really angry of people it's just like can we not have a fucking moment like not being total pieces of shit can't it just be christmas can it be fucking seize candy and fucking true crime fucking playing cards and Elvis and fucking me like can we please oh i hate it the answer that you get served up every week is no no no answer is nine no no moments nine uh speaking of moments anything good happened to you this week oh shit oh fuck i always forget i always forget okay sure really think it through all right well this i think every week it's going to be nephew for me because oh that's cheating i know right but i have a specific one we had our family honica party last night and my nephew who's one and my other nephew who's six we like I like made them all play a game to get we all played a game and it was like because I didn't want my six year old nephew to feel left out and I want my one year old nephew to like have memories of my six year old nephew and like so I fucking auntie fucking Georgia like totally killed it what game just scared the baby did the baby like it they loved scare the baby yeah of course it was great it was great that's good yeah it was just like made me my heart feel good I had kind of a magical moment, which was I was turning to get onto the one -on -one freeway.

[1492] And as I passed the mobile gas station, which is right - On Coanga there.

[1493] Right there.

[1494] Yeah, I think it is.

[1495] There were three men doing their nightly, what is it?

[1496] Pachita.

[1497] there were there were three men facing east oh my god and doing their nightly Islamic prayers that's gorgeous and it was they were doing it because they it was just basically the furthest corner away from the gas pumps that they could be and you have to be at the certain time you have to stop wherever you are and do the prayers right and and it was it was the furthest corner and it was like kind of around the corner so it wasn't like people could see them or whatever.

[1498] But they were also doing it in front of the mobile symbol.

[1499] So it was lit up for me. As I turned to look at it, it was lit up in front of that symbol, like a movie.

[1500] It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

[1501] What a beautiful moment to remind you that there's more than just this traffic and this and driving.

[1502] And there is at that moment, someone is having a spiritual connection with the universe that has nothing to do with your surroundings and their surroundings.

[1503] They're taking some time out to do that.

[1504] And also that this is fucking America.

[1505] Yeah.

[1506] That that's what we're supposed to be able to see in America.

[1507] Yep.

[1508] That's what you should want to see.

[1509] And that's a great thing to see.

[1510] And thank God we live in a city, Los Angeles, that doesn't interfere with that.

[1511] Yeah.

[1512] That supports that and is open to that.

[1513] And is good with that.

[1514] And it's fine with that.

[1515] Yeah.

[1516] I love that.

[1517] I felt very grateful.

[1518] That's fucking gorgeous.

[1519] That's a cool one.

[1520] And I played Scare the Baby.

[1521] Meanwhile, I'm scaring this shit out of my one -year -old nephew.

[1522] If you go to iTunes and you can rate with you and subscribe us, and, you know, it's great.

[1523] It helps us.

[1524] But fuck, man. Thank you guys.

[1525] Thanks you guys.

[1526] iTunes, my favorite, Instagram.

[1527] I don't know.

[1528] Just thank you.

[1529] Thank you.

[1530] Thank you so much.

[1531] Thanks to Stephen Ray Morris of the Percast for fucking new.

[1532] audio engineer and good gifts you guys are amazing thank you for listening Elvis you want to wait you want to oh wait Merry Christmas and and happy holidays happy holidays Elvis you want a cookie my cookie all right stay sexy don't get murdered bye bye