The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett XX
[0] Hello.
[1] My guest this week is Toby Pearce.
[2] And for those of you that don't know Toby, he's the CEO of Sweat.
[3] Toby describes Sweat as the world's biggest online digital gym.
[4] It's a digital empire that offers fitness and health guidance for women.
[5] Toby's start to life was unconventional to say the least.
[6] Choosing to leave home at just 16 years old due to family and personal issues, he set off in life to become a self -made entrepreneur.
[7] He started off by working in a music shop.
[8] before turning to personal training.
[9] And this is where he met his now fiancée, Kayla.
[10] Kayla, if you don't know, is known for being one of the world's biggest online fitness influencers.
[11] Their business was born in 2014, and through sweat, they're already generating hundreds of millions in revenue.
[12] They have a dedicated community of more than 20 million women using their products all around the world, and the impact they've had on health and fitness is astronomical.
[13] Toby is smart.
[14] He's funny, direct, honest.
[15] driven pragmatic toby is an exception he thinks differently he's the type of person you would bet on no matter what they decided to do this is one of those conversations where i walked away smarter more motivated and more inspired and i know and i hope that you will too without further ado i'm stephen baller and this is the dire of a CEO i hope nobody is listening but if you are then please keep this to yourself i don't really have um questions as such yeah toby but um to thank you for joining me first and foremost.
[16] Thanks for having me, right.
[17] Making the time.
[18] I know you're a very, very busy man. I read through your story and I was quite, and this is just my honest opinion, I was quite shocked.
[19] I was shocked at the start you had in life and also how high you then managed to climb from that start because I think if people read what I read, they would assume someone that has that start to life would then maybe go through life feeling sorry for themselves.
[20] You know, and we see that a lot, right?
[21] So I guess the first place to start is, how was your start to life?
[22] Can you talk about your childhood?
[23] Yeah, a little bit, sure.
[24] I mean, so, yeah, probably late on in high school.
[25] Yeah, I mean, I kind of made the decision to leave home.
[26] So I was kind of living by myself from sort of 16 years old.
[27] Yeah, definitely, yeah, which complicates things, I think.
[28] Why did you leave home?
[29] Just, I mean, like rough family environment, I think, to a degree.
[30] But I think, you know, and also, and this would probably kind of talk a little bit to, you my, I think, you know, independence and problem solving or whatever.
[31] Like, I felt like I was always kind of in control of my destiny.
[32] And so at a point, you know, when I was like very, very young, I was kind of like, well, you know, I'm not probably really that happy, you know, here now.
[33] But I think that I can control the outcome of that.
[34] What?
[35] Sorry to interject, but that, for me, that point is really, really important.
[36] Because for whatever reason, and I've talked about this on this podcast before, I felt the same way.
[37] I did not know the future.
[38] Yeah.
[39] But for some reason, I was arrogant enough to think that I would be completely you find.
[40] And I've, over the years, managed to kind of, like, look back and try and figure out why that was.
[41] But for you, why at 16 years old did you think you could control your own destiny?
[42] Yeah, I think, you know, and perhaps, yeah, maybe it's a little bit of shared arrogance or to the confidence.
[43] I mean, how have you wanted to find it?
[44] Yeah, and perhaps probably even a little bit of naivety, you know, I think at the young age.
[45] But I think that, you know, to be honest, I think, you know, what is an entrepreneur, if not a problem solver, you know, right?
[46] And so I think that, you know, literally, even from the edge, just a little like seven, eight, nine, years old.
[47] Like I was always a really, you know, kind of great problem solver.
[48] And I also not only was good at it, but actually really enjoyed it.
[49] Um, you know, so not that I think that any kind of teenager really enjoys, you know, the thought of living home.
[50] Yeah, but I was just kind of very confident that, you know, that I can kind of keep myself up my own two feet.
[51] I'll figure out a way to, you know, get a job.
[52] I'll figure out a way to get through university and make a life for myself.
[53] And I think, yeah, if anything, um, yeah, that was like the, the challenge of succeeding was almost probably the largest motivator.
[54] Um, you know, like, so, like, I, I've gone through adversities, like, but I'll come out the other side.
[55] Yeah, it'll be fine.
[56] But, like, where am I going to be and how do I get there?
[57] Like, that's pretty stimulating challenge for me, I think.
[58] Did you have brothers and sisters?
[59] Yeah, I have one sister, yeah.
[60] But, again, probably not, yeah, probably not really the, you know, the strongest relationship.
[61] But I think even from a very young age, like, I was kind of quite introverted and, you know, like to myself and kept to myself.
[62] So, yeah.
[63] And was your relationship with your parents close?
[64] Oh, I think, yeah, probably with my dad pretty good.
[65] Yeah, definitely for sure.
[66] But I think, you know, stuff that was happening in and around my family.
[67] And, yeah, and yeah, totally respect that this is probably a little different, like, for a teenager.
[68] But I was kind of just not really that patient with it.
[69] Yeah.
[70] And I think it's all, like, to be honest, even if that stuff had not been happening, like I was always sort of the person that, to be honest, I probably would have left shortly after anyway.
[71] You know, like, I was always like, I've got to go on and do something, you know.
[72] Yeah, so you might have read online as well.
[73] Like, you know, I was in high school, kind of got asked to leave.
[74] because I wasn't really doing much work at school.
[75] And then, you know, eventually kind of in Australia you consider, you know, a stat test, which is called a stat test to get to university, basically.
[76] But tested pretty good, got into uni and then just picked myself up and kind of went, you know.
[77] Like, I didn't have anyone telling me to go to university or, like, you know, forcing me or paying for it.
[78] I just wanted to learn.
[79] Yeah.
[80] And because I knew that basically in order to succeed in life at anything, you know, like a fundamental part of that is learning and working hard.
[81] You know, so I just went ahead and did that and wanted to make it the best of it for myself.
[82] So 16 years old asked to leave school?
[83] We'd have been 15 years old asked to leave school and then moved to another school and then sort of finished high school.
[84] Yeah, and then about sort of six to eight months after that year probably sat that test to get into university and then sort of started picking myself up after that.
[85] And when you moved out of your house, presumably didn't move out of your house with loads of funds.
[86] No, no, yeah.
[87] So I was actually working in a music shop.
[88] So I studied classical piano for the majority of my life.
[89] So, yeah, I was working at a music shop.
[90] sort of selling pianos and selling sheet music about five or six hours a week for sort of 15 bucks an hour sort of thing.
[91] So, yeah, I sort of had that.
[92] A couple of my friends are pretty helpful and sort of, you know, help me to kind of bridge the gap.
[93] But I think I was able to pretty quickly, like, pivot out of that into figuring out, like, yeah, what do I want to do?
[94] You know, I want to study and learn, like, you know, how do I pay for that study?
[95] You know, like, how do I actually cover that cost and how do I find a job that's flexible?
[96] And I was like, oh, well, you know, I really like the health and fitness industry and I'm training in the gym a bit.
[97] So, like, I'll go on to a personal training course.
[98] and then, you know, like literally from there, everything kind of really picked up massively.
[99] So, you know, a matter of months after that, like, I was, you know, personal training in a gym.
[100] You know, sort of within six months of that, like I'd started, you know, sort of my first business.
[101] I was running my own business as a personal trainer in a gym, but also sort of then went out and started doing boot camps and running boot camps with women outdoors.
[102] Another sort of six months after that had my second franchise and another six months after that.
[103] And Kayla and I had our first online business together.
[104] So the momentum really picked up when I kind of took things.
[105] into my own hands got on the front foot as opposed to, yeah, like the other way that someone can go through adversity is, yeah, choose to feel sorry for themselves or whatever, but that's a very, it's a very slow sort of depressing path, yeah, not one that I really think that I wanted to go on, so.
[106] And so you go to university, you graduate when you're how old?
[107] Didn't graduate uni.
[108] Didn't graduate.
[109] No, so I got about two and a half, three years in, I think.
[110] Yeah, and then sort of had started the online business that was doing sort of about 10 million a year at that point and like highly profitably.
[111] And so I was sort of like, oh, like, well, yeah, I'll defer uni because at this point in time, it was, you know, critically and to be kind of frank, it was like, what's the ROI on my time?
[112] You know, like, what return an investment do I get?
[113] Like, I can go to university for however long to learn an instruction environment.
[114] Like, or I could put that on, you know, time out temporarily.
[115] I can force my own learning quicker by doing online courses or reading books and I can run a business on my own terms.
[116] You know, so the long term plan wasn't necessarily to never go back to university, but it was more about, well, these opportunities don't always come along.
[117] And when you get an opportunity, you've got to go.
[118] So you dropped out.
[119] Yeah.
[120] So, yeah, deferred initially.
[121] And then sort of a year and a half later, we were doing about, you know, 25 million a year in revenue.
[122] And then I was, yeah, obviously sort of just like, well, I think, you know, again, like, you know, same situation again, but sort of a year to 12 to 18 months later, like, what's the ROI on my time?
[123] You know, do I go back to university for another two and a half years and slow down my business?
[124] you know, what would happen in two and a half years if I was spent like 150 % you know, like at this company, like what would that actually be?
[125] And then, you know, so about another year and a half later we're doing sort of 50 or 60 million dollars in revenue and another year and a half later is kind of now, yeah, what we're doing about, you know, 100 million in, you know, annual turnover plus and, yeah, trying to grow still.
[126] So one of the things like, by the way, that's fucking impressive just before I transition onwards.
[127] But one of the things that I get asked all the time is I'll get messages from young kids that are at university now.
[128] and they either have an idea, they're either working on an idea on the side.
[129] Often there's very little traction and they're asking me the question, Steve, shall I drop out of university?
[130] What's your advice to them?
[131] Yeah, well, I mean, look, so I think in that situation, there's probably not going to be one rule or one size fits all, right?
[132] Like, I mean, my thought process was pretty logical.
[133] Yeah, sort of like, basically, am I making enough money right now that I can actually justify not going to university like when compared to basically what job I would be able to get after that.
[134] You know, am I going to potentially yield a significantly larger benefit by not going to uni in the short term?
[135] Like, yes, like I probably think so.
[136] Yeah, and I guess like, you know, also like what's the opportunity cost of going to uni?
[137] You know, see if I was to go to uni, regardless of the money.
[138] Like to actually forget the dollar amount.
[139] It was more like these type of opportunities and business opportunities are, I wouldn't necessarily say like once in a lifetime, but like when they're here, they're here.
[140] and if you don't take that opportunity and you don't get on the front pool, then it's gone, right?
[141] So I think for people that are in university now, you know, if you've already started running a business and you're already getting your revenue and you're already like getting growth, you know, I think it's kind of up to them to determine at what point, you know, for some people it could be 200 grand a year.
[142] For some people it could be 20 million a year.
[143] You know, it really depends.
[144] It depends on the intensity of the business and depends on the intensity of the learning.
[145] And also I think as well, like, you know, if you drop out of university and then all of a sudden you're not studying, like you're not reading, you're not watching videos online, you're not like forcing yourself to learn.
[146] Well, if you need university to be the thing that actually causes you to grow, then I'd probably keep going.
[147] But for me, like I was like, I could actually learn a lot quicker by not being at university and that's like literally what's happened, you know.
[148] So I'll read sort of like 50 to 100 books a year, you know, podcasts, travel, networking, whatever.
[149] They're for me and my mindset, far more valuable learning opportunities.
[150] So I wouldn't say there's like a one size fits all.
[151] I think it's kind of balancing the odds.
[152] I completely agree.
[153] You mentioned there that you read 50, 200 books a year.
[154] Whenever someone mentions books on the internet ever, the first question people ask is, what's your favourite book?
[155] So I'd be remiss if I didn't.
[156] Yeah, yeah.
[157] So I think, you know, at different points in time, different books, right?
[158] Sure.
[159] Yeah, I think for me, you know, over the last probably two years, probably two books, I think, you know, one of them is good to great by Jim Collins, which is sort of like really a really good, almost in some way, statistical analysis of the reason why, businesses have gone, you know, like top 100 businesses in the world, how they went from being effectively good businesses to becoming great companies that stood the test of time.
[160] And so for me, that was really kind of eye -opening about, well, you know, the approach to business should obviously very often be about sustainability, not just growth.
[161] Yeah, so I think that was really critical.
[162] And then, you know, probably, you know, more specific, like subject matter, but like, yeah, there's a book, really, really clever guy called TN Zoo, who runs a company called Zora and they're basically a subscription, like, subscription business, subscription management software.
[163] and he wrote a book called Subscribed and it's just a really, really enlightening view on like modern business models and how effectively the subscription economy is going to change business in a really big way.
[164] So, because we run in subscription business, that was really, really good for us, yeah.
[165] And going back to the business you started in university, that started making $10 million, $20 million a year.
[166] Talk to me about that and what business that was.
[167] Yeah, yeah, sure.
[168] So basically after we've been running a couple of bootcams and Kalo was doing, we were doing studio.
[169] like running a PT studio.
[170] We enter the online world selling e -books.
[171] So this is sort of like really early 2014 almost.
[172] You know, Instagram's kind of new thing.
[173] And e -books are sort of there but sort of not.
[174] And in the fitness industry, definitely not really.
[175] Yeah, so we kind of, we had a lot of people online.
[176] Effectively, we generated a decent fan base to effectively lead generate for boot camps.
[177] But then what started to happen was, obviously, you can't just build fans in kind of one suburb, you know, So the fans online sort of started being like, oh, we've got some in America, some in Russia, some in, you know, wherever.
[178] And they were like, oh, like, well, you know, I see your client transformations and I see your workouts.
[179] It looked really cool.
[180] Like, I want to do that.
[181] So we kind of, yeah, just wrap that up all up in an ebook, you know, a couple hundred pages packaged it with a whole bunch of like what we believe to be kind of almost mandatory like education material and sort of, you know, put it on a website that we built that was really gross and barely worked and crashed all the time and whatever.
[182] But, yeah, pushed out on the internet.
[183] and then sort of off it went.
[184] So, you know, we were, to be honest, like, really surprised.
[185] We launched it and said in the first week probably generated more revenue in sales and what we would have done in like six months in our existing business.
[186] Obviously, the initial emotion is like, yes, like that's amazing.
[187] But then it's kind of like, oh, but what about next week?
[188] And then so that was, and that, I think to be honest, that kind of almost fear, but like critical view of what's next and what's coming for the business is probably what kind of helped us to take it from just like a, here's an idea into like it's an actual legitimate business.
[189] I didn't really introduce Kayla.
[190] Yeah, yeah.
[191] So I probably should take a step back and introduce Kayla.
[192] Obviously I know, but I'm not sure everybody listening knows.
[193] Who's Kayla?
[194] So Kayla's my fiancé, but she's a personal trainer, so Kayla had seen us.
[195] And we started dating sort of probably about a year, a year and a half before we sort of started working together at least online.
[196] But yeah, she was, like we went to market effectively with her brand, like her name is a brand to sell what was initially the bikini body guide.
[197] So there's now become an app, obviously.
[198] obviously.
[199] But yeah, she was a face in the name of everything that we did, you know, sort of for the first few years and is now currently, well, Forbes recently named her the most influential sort of fitness icon in the world, which is pretty amazing.
[200] But, yeah, she's having a massive impact on the space.
[201] You've just recently announced that she's got a baby on the way?
[202] Yes.
[203] Yeah.
[204] So we got engaged sort of beginning of last year.
[205] And then, yeah, we're currently pregnant due in the eight weeks and five days.
[206] Oh, wow.
[207] Yeah.
[208] So pretty soon, yeah.
[209] And how long have you guys been together?
[210] Coming up for six and a half years.
[211] And you've been working in business for the same period of time?
[212] About five.
[213] Five, yeah.
[214] So, I mean, even really early on, like, when, you know, Kayla was doing her personal training and I was doing mine, like we kind of, we did this sort of, you know, shared and parallel kind of view on, like, women's fitness and workouts and client engagement, except I also kind of had this really, you know, deep, like, passion for business, you know, so, you know, even like really early on in our relationship, it was more just kind of, I'd help her problem solve certain stuff in a business, but then she'd have this really great idea about content we could create or, you know, different workouts we should do.
[215] And so it was kind of a really, you know, the perfect partnership in some ways, like in that way really early on.
[216] And we knew each of our strengths and we kind of stuck to that.
[217] And what's it like doing business with someone that you're romantically involved with?
[218] Yeah, sure.
[219] Yeah, the question we get us all the time.
[220] I think, you know, probably to be clear, like early on it was very different to what it is now.
[221] Now, like, now, like, I don't really see her at all during the day.
[222] Like, it's not like we're in meetings together.
[223] You know, I'm more so doing, you know, the business stuff and what's coming next and whatever for the whole organisation and she's obviously kind of more critically focused on her on our own brand.
[224] But I think, you know, early on, there's definitely kind of some, you know, like sometimes there's tension or more, you know, kind of discussion about certain stuff.
[225] But I think we've been really fortunate, like we've, to be honest, probably never really, I don't think we've ever really actually argued about business or anything like that.
[226] And I think that really comes down.
[227] down to like, you know, my role in this is X and, you know, her role in it is Y and, like, we're both going to have the trust in one another that we're going to dominate in those two areas and that's that.
[228] Right.
[229] So.
[230] Kaila did a post on Facebook that I've got here.
[231] Yeah, sure.
[232] Do you know which post I'm referring to?
[233] No, I don't.
[234] No. There's a lot of posts there.
[235] It's a post about you.
[236] Yeah.
[237] She says, on Toby's profile, it says he was expelled from school, but people always think this is a bad thing.
[238] Toby was actually asked to leave school because he spent a lot of his time being bored and yes, this made him a little distracting to others.
[239] He is a genius.
[240] I'm not saying that because I think he's smart.
[241] He really is a genius with an amazing mind.
[242] He was studying classic piano from age to four.
[243] Sorry if this is making you a little bit embarrassed.
[244] And was at university level by 13 years old.
[245] He is able to work on mathematical problems in a matter of seconds.
[246] He has a photographic memory.
[247] He can analyze a person or a situation and know everything that is going to happen next.
[248] He can finish your sentences, which he says is sometimes annoying.
[249] He can fix anything, learn new languages in a few months.
[250] Nothing is too difficult for him.
[251] And as amazing as this sounds, he thinks this is a burden sometimes.
[252] Why is that a burden?
[253] I'm fucking...
[254] There's a lot going on up in my head.
[255] I think that's for sure.
[256] But I think Kayla's very generous with her words.
[257] Of course, yeah.
[258] But, yeah, I mean, I don't know about the stuff about me being really clever or whatever, but the stuff about, you know, the piano and whatever like that.
[259] that's all true.
[260] Like, I definitely did that stuff and was, yeah, effectively kind of doing the equivalent to concert piano level performance when I was sort of 13 years old and yeah, just kind of the way I was always into problem solving, I said before, it was always how it was.
[261] The burden part, what does she mean?
[262] What is you referring to?
[263] Yeah, so I think I've heard a few people refer to their own mental sort of cognition as a bird.
[264] Elon Musk is one of them.
[265] Yeah.
[266] Yeah, I think, yeah, probably kind of, well, probably two things.
[267] Yeah, I think fundamentally there's, like, there's so much traffic, you know, like in your mind.
[268] much information going in and out.
[269] Yeah, which, and it's literally also like 24 hours a day, seven days week.
[270] It doesn't, it never ever kind of really stops.
[271] And I think also as well then, yeah, and something I've been really trying to work hard on over the last of the 12 months, like as a leader, like that communication is really hard.
[272] You know, like, so when there's so much stuff going on in your head or like when something seems really simple and obvious and you just like, it's, you've clearly got the answer, but trying to communicate that to other people who, for whatever reason that might not be as strong in that field or it might not make as much sense to them, like, you know, that barrier can sometimes be a little frustrating.
[273] And, yeah, especially like early on, you're in a business, like, yeah, you're trying to move it a million miles now.
[274] Not that that's really changed.
[275] Still trying to move a million miles now.
[276] But you're trying to really move super, super fast.
[277] But when you're the person sitting there and the vision is really clear to you and you can see all the answers and what are, like, it's right in front of you.
[278] But then you've got a team of people who are doing their best to keep up with you.
[279] And, like, of course, they're doing a great job.
[280] But trying to bridge that gap can sometimes be kind of, you know, like painful in some ways.
[281] and especially then when you couple that with someone like me who, you know, I'm kind of self -confessed extremely impatient.
[282] It's going to say patience is what we're talking about.
[283] Yeah, exactly, right?
[284] So, you know, so there's, Brian's going a million miles now, really impatient.
[285] You know, there's a bridge that you've got across.
[286] And so sometimes it can be a bit of a burden, but it is what it is.
[287] I don't get, I don't, because when you say that, I completely get it.
[288] But then I also know my friends that are CEOs of big companies like Uma, who leads a pretty little thing.
[289] And I had the same conversation with him.
[290] last week in LA and he is the same I said to him, you're the most impatient person I know and I watch him get frustrated to the point of like his face going red because Umar will decide something you'll have a vision and know it and the problem is he needs his team to do it right?
[291] It's the lag factor it's no different to I don't know for anyone listening who's ever done online gaming or that's like you're playing call a duty or something and you start lagging it's literally the same thing it's the frustration and how have you have you, this is just advice for myself, how have you come to, to deal with that?
[292] Yeah, look, I think, to be honest, it's kind of like most, most things, I think becoming aware of that first and understanding like what the, what the deficit or surplus is in that particular area is really critical, yeah, so for me, you know, being aware of that and then communicating that to my team.
[293] So like, cool, like my brain goes in a million miles now.
[294] If you don't understand something or it doesn't make sense, just ask.
[295] Yeah, like, and sometimes something as simple as they actually open the door for people to have an opinion or to be able to ask a question is actually really critical because, you know, as a CEO, like, you know, the person that's very often making the decisions or alternatively at least like setting the vision, you know, sometimes people kind of want to just take what you say, you know, immediately, yeah, cool, but they're afraid to actually ask what that means and kind of validate it for themselves.
[296] So I think, you know, the awareness and allowing that type of communication with your team members is really important.
[297] But at the end of the day, I think it's much like a lot of things in life, you know, whether it be health and fitness or learning or whatever.
[298] Like it really is a discipline.
[299] Yeah, like at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how smart you are or how fast your brain can go or if you've got all the answers or whatever.
[300] If you can't bring other people along for the journey and you can't get them motivated about it and you can't get them to understand it, clearly it doesn't really matter.
[301] So the discipline to be patient, which is sometimes very difficult, but the discipline to be patient, you know, and consider it and communicate is really the foundation for success there.
[302] And in Kayla's post on our Facebook page, she says a lot of very, very nice things about you and points to, I guess a number of attributes about.
[303] that might be responsible for your personal success.
[304] But from your perspective, why do you think that you've been successful in the way that you have?
[305] I'm talking personally in terms of not opportunity or timing or Instagram.
[306] I mean, on a personal level, what are the attributes of you as a person?
[307] Yeah, so I think, yeah, I mean, categorically, probably a few things.
[308] I mean, you would have heard these a thousand times, I'm sure, you're kind of speaking to other leaders and CEOs.
[309] but I think, you know, like, I think there's, the basic one is about you need to work hard.
[310] Like, I think that's the thing.
[311] And, you know, for me, like, working hard is not a learned behavior.
[312] Like, it's actually this inherent to who I am, you know, so working multiple jobs or working long hours or working whatever, like, you know, I think outside the bounds of the kind of traditional nine to five, you know, like yesterday was more like a five to nine, you know, sort of thing.
[313] You know, so I think, you know, the hard work is definitely a thing.
[314] The discipline I mentioned as well is obviously a really critical thing as well because discipline's kind of, you know, when you're working hard.
[315] but you get tired and you want to stop, like, that's what's going to kind of perpetuate the momentum.
[316] Because really, at the end of the day, it's about building momentum and maintaining it.
[317] And, you know, so having the discipline and the driver is really the two things are going to keep that going.
[318] And I think really, like, outside of that, a lot of things kind of cascade from that.
[319] You know, like, it's like, you know, learning and self -development.
[320] Like, well, that's still, like, you've got to be driven to want to learn and you've got to be disciplined to keep learning.
[321] You know, I think surrounding myself with, like, really, really, you know, highly intelligent and experienced people as well to help, again, perpetuate the momentum has been really critical.
[322] but I think everyone, everyone kind of has their own secret source, you know, and I think if I had to get kind of out of the generalist, you know, sort of stuff, like I think, you know, probably my greatest strength is being really like detail -oriented and really strong in information architecture.
[323] And so what I mean by that basically is that a lot of people would probably describe me as OCD, like highly OCD, but I would just describe that as highly specific about what I want.
[324] You know, and I think on the information architecture thing about being able to frame things in a way that makes sense and being organized things in a way that makes sense for a lot of people kind of breaks down the barriers again like I mentioned before for communication to generate that momentum for the team so yeah awesome and you're a very young business person we talked about this a little bit before we started recording but it's not always easy as a young person to get into business because you're I guess you have more to prove people expect less from you yeah I also think in some that them taking you for granted creates an opportunity as well in some respects.
[325] Talk to me about what it's like being a young person trying to get into business and your experiences of that.
[326] Well, yeah, I think obviously it depends who you're in the room with, you know, but I think you know, there's definitely some pretty savage experiences.
[327] You know, like, I've literally been in, like, shown up to a meeting before going and to walk with someone and literally just been like literally marched out.
[328] Like because, you know, 30 seconds into the meeting they're like, you just kid, don't care.
[329] Like it doesn't actually matter, like, what you're talking about.
[330] They don't, like, some people generally don't care.
[331] And, you know, that's a very, like, kind of broad stroke, you know, like remark.
[332] But there are genuinely some people that just don't care.
[333] You know, like, if you walk into a meeting room, you're sort of 20, 25 years old, they just don't really value your opinion.
[334] Yeah, but I think, yeah, without being negative on the opposite end of the spectrum, there's also some people that are tremendously welcoming, you know.
[335] And so I think, you know, again, like part of the journey is, you know, having the resilient to survive what, you know, probably the shitty meetings, you know, or the shitty people that you network with, you know, and to try and find the, you know, the rose amongst a thorn type situation, you know, like, where is the, where is the person that doesn't judge me for my age or for my, you know, lack of knowledge in certain areas, you know, because I think part of being young as well or of any age is you might be an expert in whatever software engineering and product development, but you might not know anything about finance, you know, and like, so you're going to meet with an accountant or whatever.
[336] And like, because you're actually doing really well at something, there's kind of a preconceived, like, expectation that like, oh, well, you must think you're pretty good.
[337] but then when you come into a meeting vulnerable, like, I don't actually really know a lot about this, but I really want to learn.
[338] They kind of get almost taken back by that.
[339] Yeah, but yeah, I think it's, it is hard in some ways being a young person, like trying to do business, but I think it's only as hard as you let it be hard for yourself, you know, like at the end of the day, you can get emotional about that and emotional about a lot of things in business or you can kind of just go brush it off and kind of move on to the next thing, you know?
[340] You started when you were 21, 22?
[341] Yeah, well, I mean, I started as a PT, like actually running my own business, probably like 19, you know, but yeah, I mean, it really started to, you know, like pick up and get kind of more serious around 21 years old.
[342] Which, yeah, like, you know, you're traveling the world and even not, like, we're fully bootstrapped organization.
[343] But, like, I think, you know, met with a lot of investors sort of around that age as well.
[344] And it's, yeah, some of them certainly more forthcoming than others, that's for sure.
[345] Yeah.
[346] And you mentioned, though, that there's a lot of savage times, you know, much of the, well, I think anyway, I think because of various films and Instagram quotes and these kinds of things.
[347] A lot of people see entrepreneurship as being a pretty rock star thing like Jet Skis.
[348] lots of holidays, private jets, money, cars, and everything in between.
[349] and do you agree or disagree?
[350] Yeah.
[351] I think that we live in a society and generation where things are probably or definitely hyped up a little bit.
[352] And I think as well, like a lot of people want to, yeah, and maybe rightfully so they're really proud of what they've achieved and they really want to show that off and whatever.
[353] But I think that I think that that that been.
[354] as the benchmark for, you know, the aspiration for a lot of our generation is probably what the actual mistake is.
[355] So I think, you know, showcasing it and being proud, of course, is cool.
[356] It's one thing.
[357] But I think if you're someone who is not in that position and you're at the very beginning of your journey, I think aiming for that is actually the wrong, you know, the wrong aim, like in a multitude of different ways.
[358] Yeah, I'm sure, you know, probably yourself on an abundance of other people that you know, like there's this, you know, having money is cool or having things and whatever is cool or not whatever.
[359] But ultimately, there's a really, really, really distinct realization that happens kind of early on in the journey and that is that that's not like and as much as other people want to argue like that's not actually going to bring you joy in life at all you know like the thing that brings you joy is the journey it's every win that you get and not necessarily just the win about money it's the win about progress that you've made you've just hired a really elite person who's going to like just add massive gains to the business you know like whatever it's all those little wins that are actually the good things you know the the car and the house and the private jets and the whatever like you know that's that's that's that's that's that's that's cool and it's fun for about 30 seconds and whatever but after a while like who are you really actually pleasing is that pleasing yourself or is that pleasing other people would probably be my argument but at what point did on that point of money if I give you this is basically yes a note question is if I give you another million quid now would you be happier not at what point did your happiness stop scaling um based on fine income yeah look I think um yeah I don't think that I'd be able to say like, oh, it was at this dollar point.
[360] But I think that really there was probably a realisation sort of as Kela's brand started to lift off and we started to make this pivot into the app that was like it then everything just became so exciting.
[361] Yeah.
[362] And like to be honest, you know, not that I think that any accountant or financial control I want to hear this, but you almost forget about the money.
[363] Like really it just becomes, it's just a measuring stick.
[364] Like did we win this quarter better than last quarter?
[365] like that's the grade yes or no right yeah but I think like for me you know like I was literally just dumped into the middle of like learning software engineering and learning marketing and user experience and automation and whatever and for me that was like literally the best part of the journey and still is the best part of the journey like I got to learn all of this like you know like front you're kind of like leading world class sort of stuff that otherwise I wouldn't be exposed to you know and for me that's an epic part of it and you know like being here today like meeting someone like yourself same age like killing it in a completely different space like that stuff is actually worth it.
[366] You know, that's the memory that I'll be able to talk about even if I have $0 one day.
[367] Sure.
[368] You know, but you can't, like, when you do have $0 potentially in the future, you're not going to look back and be like, oh, it was so great when I had all that money, you know, like that's going to be depressing, right?
[369] But like, like, you're being able to go back and be like, oh, yeah, we achieved this.
[370] Like, you know, we run boot camp tours for 100 ,000 women around the world.
[371] Like, yeah, like, we literally change the space.
[372] Like, that's awesome, you know?
[373] And that's going to last forever.
[374] Yeah, that won't ever, like, we'll never fade.
[375] And I think I know the answer.
[376] to this question.
[377] But are you scared of losing it all?
[378] Look, I think that anyone would be lying if they said no. You know, I think there'd be different reasons why people are fearful, that's for sure.
[379] But I think, like, you know, I think, to be honest, and again, part of a good entrepreneur and the thirst and drive for success is it's probably a fear of failure.
[380] I don't think it's necessarily a fear of, like, losing a dollar on the bank account, but it's more about, like, it's a fear of going backwards.
[381] It's a fear of slowing down.
[382] It's a fear of the product not being as good.
[383] It's a fear of not being the front runner, all of those things.
[384] I don't think that that's something that anyone's going to be happy about, that's for sure.
[385] But I think, yeah, I don't think that would necessarily for me specifically have anything to do with money.
[386] It's more about progress.
[387] You know, like my obsession and my drive is for progress, not for dollars.
[388] And what is your long -term aim, then?
[389] If you're obsessing over progress, what is, you know, 10 years progress to you?
[390] What does that look like?
[391] So, you know, if we, if we zoom in a little bit like on, on the business, so, you know, sweat is, so effectively we kind of define as, you know, a digital gym, you know, so how does I wish it to be the world's biggest digital gym?
[392] Yeah, we view the fitness industry basically as being, you know, fragmented, you know, so like there's, there's big box gyms, there's 24 -7s, there's, you know, your sole cycle and 45 boutique experiences, and then there's hundreds and thousands of fitness apps and trainers and what are online, you know, the last segment of that is the social thing.
[393] that we play and how do we aggregate all of that you know when you think about music right you think about Spotify you know if you think about entertainment or movies you think about Netflix you know when you think about working out yeah think about anybody right so in five or 10 years time when you think about working out you'll think about sweat okay love it I'm sold let's take a step back so um when I say um hard times what's the first thing that comes to mind All the first things.
[394] Yeah, probably so I think the very first launch of our app.
[395] Yeah, so, yeah, probably to kind of summarize that in really short, you know, go into this project to launch an app to kind of pivot the business, expect to spend sort of $200 to $250 ,000 building it, spend sort of the better part of $3 quarters of a million, you know, hope it's going to take sort of 12 to 14 weeks, takes kind of the better part of a year.
[396] You know, so after all that time and all the extra.
[397] money and effort that's gone into it.
[398] You finally get to launch day and you're like, oh, like, this is great.
[399] Like, people are going to love this.
[400] Like, it's going to be a really big win.
[401] The company's just going to go to the next level.
[402] You press that big red button to go live.
[403] And then the first 24 hours, you kind of get 25 ,000 complaints.
[404] Wow.
[405] Yeah.
[406] So, you know, when you get a team, I said, like, at this point, maybe 20 or 25 people who have, like, literally worked their ass off for a year and they're all looking at you, like, why didn't it work?
[407] Yeah.
[408] And then you've also got 25 ,000 consumers looking at you're like, well, that was crap.
[409] Yeah.
[410] And so, yeah, so I think there's, you know, there's the, what we were just talking about.
[411] There's the fear of like, shit, like, did I just mess this up?
[412] Like, did I just, did I just break everything?
[413] And then there's the, what the hell am I going to say to the staff that are here?
[414] And then there's the, well, we've actually also got 25 ,000 members, you know, that we kind of need to, like, you know, service and be, like, provide a good experience to.
[415] Like, and everyone literally is looking at you.
[416] Yeah.
[417] So I think, like, at that point in time, that's, yeah, when you're talking.
[418] about fear or you talk about like hard times or whatever like for me that's probably one that's kind of stitched into my memory pretty pretty well yeah is there another um there doesn't mean that there's plenty but i think yeah maybe maybe something like you know something as fearful like every business goes through kind of like you know difficulties like you know setting things up like getting your website URL like you know whatever and like so I wouldn't really say there's not necessarily like oh yeah like another like massive one but I think there's probably like tens or hundreds of small things like that that, you know, a lot of people kind of, you either don't remember along the way or whatever.
[419] Like it's the only thing that matters at that point in time.
[420] But then like two weeks later when the next one comes up, like that's the only one that matters.
[421] But so I think, you're on the journey, there's, there's, you're constantly faced with these like what, at the time, they feel like kind of world crushing events.
[422] And they kind of are in many ways, you know, emotionally and mentally.
[423] But then, you know, sort of two to four weeks later, you're already on the next one.
[424] And what have you learned about hard times because of that?
[425] because they happen so frequently in the world that you've put yourself in.
[426] In hindsight, if someone's going through a hard time or if they encounter a hard time, someone like yourself who has very much sped up the amount of hard times that they experience by stepping outside of your comfort zone.
[427] What insight can you give us into hard times?
[428] Sure.
[429] So, I mean, well, yeah, first and foremost, it is totally okay to be emotional and you should at all times be aware and conscious and feel your emotions.
[430] However, no matter how emotional you are, your emotions will never, ever fix the problem.
[431] Interesting.
[432] Right, you know, so it doesn't matter how size you are.
[433] It doesn't matter how angry you are.
[434] That's, you know, short of that motivating you to solve the problem, that's not actually going to fix the problem, you know?
[435] So like, you know, and this is probably kind of referring back to my OCD and my detail sort of thing.
[436] But, you know, my mind will kind of go like, oh, like that sucks.
[437] Shit.
[438] Okay, cool.
[439] So the solution for the problem is black.
[440] right like and that's really the way that my brain works so you know so I think that you know people going through like repeated amount of hard times like it's cool like and you need to have an outlet and like sometimes people need to complain and they need to vent and whatever to their friends and family but I think again it's kind of like you know discipline do that time out and then go and win right because the reality is like you could dwell on one problem for six months or a year even you could be really upset about it but all that time you spent being emotional and upset about it is just waste of time you could have been making progress yeah so like you know I think you know a lot of people would probably refer to, you know, a lot of like really successful people and, you know, maybe me me as an entrepreneur as well as like probably kind of intense, you know, but like it's that, that intensity to move and an intensity to win and intensity to kind of frog leap your problems is, is what generates, again, it generates a momentum and perpetuates the growth for the organisation.
[441] I think, you know, if you have a leader in your organisation or if you are, if you are the leader of your organisation and you want to sit there for weeks and weeks and weeks on end, kind of complaining about the problem, like, you've not really achieved anything.
[442] Yeah, so do you have, I think everybody does, but do you have people within your organisation?
[443] Let me refrain this question, because I don't want to make it about your organisation, but have you worked with people across, and I don't even really know if this is a question, I'm basically just saying this and seeing what you think about it, but I've worked with people over the last couple years, maybe over the last five years, where when something bad happens, say the room is on fire, they'll be the type of person who will repeatedly let you know that the room is on fire, right?
[444] And they'll scream, the room is on fire, they'll tell their team the room is on fire they'll tell everybody they can that the room is on fire and there's another type of person who will be in a room that's on fire and instead of saying it because it's clearly obvious in the fucking room is on fire and that's not helpful right now they'll be solely focused on how we get out of the room yeah right and I've always thought that the type of people that as a CEO you have to give the leadership roles to are the type of people that are those solution -orientated ones because the first type of person who will just say that the room is on fire if they're given a leadership role because emotions can be quite contagious in business, the worry is they will pass those emotions through the organisation.
[445] Well, it's a fact, right?
[446] So statistically, like 70 % of the emotion and behaviour of a team and an organisation is stimulated by that of their leader.
[447] So regardless of whether it's a leader right at the top of the organisation or whether it's a leader who's managing a team of four people.
[448] Those four people were still inherit behaviours from the leader, right?
[449] So I couldn't agree more.
[450] You know, the second person sounds like someone you want to hire, right?
[451] The first person sounds like someone, yeah, not only do you probably not want them in a leadership role, but you probably, yeah, and again, being savage, but you probably don't really want them in your organization at all.
[452] Yeah.
[453] Because the reality is like even if they're not, you know, responsible for like driving and leading the team, they're still sitting next to someone.
[454] And that's someone still sitting next to someone.
[455] Sure.
[456] And that someone still, yeah, love what I mean.
[457] It's like it's a, it is in many ways like a compounding domino effect.
[458] And I think, you know, it's those conversations.
[459] It's the watercaller conversation.
[460] and whatever, like, everything that kind of creates and perpetuates culture.
[461] Like, you know, I mean, we, again, would probably say that we're pretty hard on that.
[462] You know, like, it's in conversation, what's a solution?
[463] And then if it's continuous, yeah, it's on fire, it's on fire, it's on fire.
[464] It's probably like, well, maybe we need to have a discussion about how you deal with problems.
[465] Why?
[466] And then, if not.
[467] Fine.
[468] Yeah.
[469] And, yeah, and that doesn't mean that they're a bad person.
[470] It just means that, you know, your workplace and environment and your team, whatever, is not necessarily for them.
[471] Like I think, you know, a lot of people would view, like, terminating an employee or whatever, like, as a, you know, bad thing.
[472] And I think in some ways, if you're like, you're fired and get out, like, that's probably a little mean.
[473] You should always, you should always shy on the side of caution with an employee and be there to support them, of course.
[474] But, you know, if an employee, if you identify and they can also agree and identify that the workplace is not right.
[475] Like, it's like a bad relationship.
[476] Like, don't, you know, don't force it to remain together.
[477] Sure.
[478] You know, you could be better off apart.
[479] So I completely agree.
[480] I completely agree.
[481] I didn't know that stat as well.
[482] So I'm going to use that a lot.
[483] that 70 % I need to like research that but one of the things that Caleb wrote on her Facebook post was that sometimes people think you're arrogant explain that to me. I've got a question on that point but what does she mean?
[484] Well I think any person that's in a room that's extremely certain about what they want and extremely certain about the solution can sometimes confidence can very often be mistaken for arrogance you know I think probably what I would delineate as being the key differentiating factor there really would be that someone who's confident and someone who perhaps maybe has the answers or believes in their own abilities but has something that actually can validate that.
[485] You know, so like, you know, a professional golfer can be confident in their ability to pot a ball in, right?
[486] You know, whereas if you've never played a golfer in your life and you're like, oh, yeah, I'm going to smash you, you're going to get holes in ones.
[487] Like, that's probably more so arrogance because you don't actually have the experience and you've never done it before.
[488] Sure.
[489] I think there's a grey area there somewhere in between about, you know, like how you communicate that and how you show yourself and how you show up to things.
[490] But I think that generally speaking, you know, like colloquially, people who are extremely confident and who are maybe not known so well where someone else that can very often come across as arrogance.
[491] Sure.
[492] And that often attracts a lot of hate.
[493] Yeah, sure.
[494] Topic I wanted to talk about with you generally because I mentioned it in my last podcast was about the topic of haters.
[495] Yeah.
[496] And I don't know that you've had any haters because I've not...
[497] But I'm sure you have, right?
[498] And I think in today's age, where we're all connected and we get to see a lot into other people's lives and read their stories in an instant.
[499] I think everybody has...
[500] as haters, people that will, especially successful people, right?
[501] So what's your, what's your view on that?
[502] And have you had haters that literally, no matter what you do, will just say you're a piece of shit?
[503] Yeah, pretty much.
[504] I mean, yeah, well, the famous saying is haters are going to hate, right?
[505] Yeah, that's, you know, that's going to happen kind of regardless of who you are.
[506] Like, and to be honest, like, you don't even, you don't even need to be successful, like in how you measure success, what that is, right?
[507] But you don't even need to be successful to be hated, right?
[508] I think that the rally is and maybe this is like you know, shock horrid to society but we don't actually all need to get along and be best mates, you know, like now just to add some flavour to that, you know, we shouldn't all hate each other as well, right?
[509] But I think, but not getting along and not being best mates doesn't mean that you hate one another, right?
[510] You know, and I think that in society and, you know, social media perhaps perpetuates this a little bit but I think that's kind of what the viewers are some people.
[511] It's like you're the best mates or you hate each other, you know, right?
[512] There's no kind of like in between.
[513] But I think, you know, being successful or not, maybe, you know, let's just use it as the limelight, right?
[514] You know, if you're in the limelight, you're in the media or you're online or you've got fans or whatever.
[515] Like, you know, most people that are going to be haters probably don't actually even know you.
[516] They've probably never even met you, right?
[517] You know, so I think that, and again, it's kind of like how to deal with your problems we were talking about before.
[518] Like, I think that, you know, people are going to leave, you know, abusive and, you know, probably, you know, dumb comments on your page or whatever if they don't know who you are just because.
[519] because they've got an opinion, they're a keyboard warrior, and that's cool, and they feel they need to express themselves.
[520] You know, I think it's the person who's, you know, being hated, you know, or being hated on or whatever, it's their decision to kind of be like, well, am I going to engage with that and waste my time and emotional energy, like actually, like, justifying that, or am I confident of myself on who I am as a person, I'm just going to leave it and move on.
[521] So I think hate and jealousy and whatever is inevitable, but again, it's, you know, do you want to waste time dealing with that or do you want to spend your time getting more gains?
[522] Yeah.
[523] And one of the, you know, hate comes in various forms from various different people, but sometimes it comes a little bit closer to home.
[524] Yeah.
[525] And I think this is probably, it's probably, hate's probably not the right word, but let's say like just negativity generally.
[526] One of the other one of the most popular messages I get into my inbox is from young people who have an ambition or a business they want to start or a project they want to pursue or a career.
[527] And their mum, dad, boyfriend, girlfriend, girlfriend doesn't believe they can do it.
[528] It's being critical is sometimes.
[529] people can speak just by the facial expression they give you when you say something, that type of behaviour.
[530] What's your advice to people like that?
[531] Well, so yeah, like first and foremost, like, is, so if you're trying to go out and do something and you've got goals and whatever and you're going to go out and try and crush it and like your best mate, bro, partner, family, whatever, tell you that that's a dumb idea and that you shouldn't do it.
[532] You know, I think, you know, does, well, first and foremost, does what they're saying, is that saying something about you?
[533] Or is it saying something about them?
[534] yeah for a start like so are they telling you it's a shit idea because like they actually genuinely think that the idea is shit or they're saying that it's a shit idea because they are fearful that you might go and succeed you know or that they're jealous that you're actually having a crack because you've got you know the confidence to go and do it you know or because maybe they're afraid that you might actually succeed you know you might actually dominate and then they want you know be on the same level as you yeah and so is that real thing do you it's a massive thing yeah so like you know I'll tell your story it's like yeah my My best mate, like his name is Mitch, we've been best mates for 15 years.
[535] You know, like, and I, you know, slept on the floor of his house sometimes, you know, when I wasn't living at home or whatever.
[536] Like, we've been through some savage times together and he came from a family that were, you know, they did it right.
[537] They were well off, right?
[538] Yeah, and he's, you know, he's working really hard now to do his best and to try to dominate in life and he's giving it a red hot crack.
[539] But, you know, you know, a couple months ago sitting there and he's like, oh, yeah, we're on the treadmill, was walking in my gym.
[540] And he's like, oh, you know, I was like, how was last week, mate?
[541] Like, what did you do last week?
[542] He's like, yeah, you know, just had work, man, just, you know, trying to do some study, trying to, you know, improve my things, whatever.
[543] He's like, what did you do?
[544] And I was like, oh, yeah, you know, I spoke to 8 ,000 people at OMA, you know, just got back from, like, you know, Germany, whatever, blah, blah, blah.
[545] And he kind of goes quiet for a second.
[546] He's just like, you know, man, like sometimes I can imagine it would be hard for me as a person to be friends with someone like you because what I say is, you know, I'm doing my things, and I'm living my normal life, doing whatever, I'm working as hard as I can.
[547] But what you do is always so extreme and always so this and that.
[548] and the other.
[549] And he's like, but, you know, that's only really bad if I think about it in that mindset, you know, if I go, but you're my best mate and you're actually winning at life and that's really amazing.
[550] Like, I'm really happy for you.
[551] You know, so that's the mindset shift, right?
[552] He's able to kind of be like, well, just because I'm not doing what you're doing and what you're doing is really cool and awesome doesn't mean that I need to be negative to you.
[553] I could actually go on with a positive mindset, but like, congratulations, man. That's sick.
[554] And, you know, he's, you know, going to, you know, buying his first house and whatever at the moment.
[555] And I'm like, cool, man. like good luck like I want you to win like go get it like yeah it's no different to like in that situation like yeah someone could turn around and be like oh that's not good enough but that's not really achieving anything and how do you spot those people within your friendship circle because i sometimes think you know if you've got bad apples in your friendship circle they have more influence more potential to tear you down than any than strangers do is there a way to know who's uh who's on your side and who's not well i think well whatever it is that you do to recognize them you spot them quickly yeah because it's a worst time otherwise but I think um you know I think I think I mean it's it's it's exactly like yeah what's their facial expression what's their response like what do they communicate to you like when you're talking about the thing that you are most passionate about you know if you're talking to someone about something that you just really want to win out and you're so passionate about and they're telling you no no no no no it's like well you know either one I'd be having a conversation with them about that to let them know that you're kind of like hey man this is really important to me like so if you're going to keep shutting it down then we're probably just going to be an issue you know um and And if they keep doing that, then it's probably, again, like, it's, again, you know, intense and whatever.
[556] But, like, is that personating value of your life?
[557] Or are they draining energy and emotion from your life?
[558] And, like, and again, this is, you know, this is a really, really, really, like, blunt, like, hardcore approach.
[559] But again, like, you know, you live your life to make yourself happy and those around you happy.
[560] You know, in that situation, you're not making yourself happy and you're also not actually making them happy either quite obviously.
[561] Yeah.
[562] So, like, I think, you know, a lot of people get stuck in this mindset.
[563] They're like, oh, but we were friends in high school, bro, like, known you for so long.
[564] we've got to be mates forever.
[565] It's like, that doesn't have to happen.
[566] And again, just because you might drift apart from someone doesn't make you a bad person or them a bad person.
[567] Like, that's just life, right?
[568] Yeah, so.
[569] Yeah, great.
[570] That really made me think because I've, you know, along the way, I think specifically with my business partner, when he dropped out of university and joined me in my first business, every time he posted on his Facebook, it was his mates from back home, taking the piss off him.
[571] So he would post one of his achievements he'd won an award.
[572] And it would be a flurry of his, friends, quote, quote, back home ripping into pieces.
[573] I didn't have that because from a very young age, everyone I grew up with knew who I was, but he changed.
[574] So he went from being the kid that was probably in some respects, the butt of the joke amongst his friends to now being successful, quote unquote.
[575] Yeah, and I think his circle struggled to adapt to that.
[576] Next topic I wanted to talk to you about is personal mistakes.
[577] I read online about your speeding offence and those things.
[578] being completely transparent I got banned from driving too for my own from my own stupidity I got banned from driving in the first week that I passed my test apparently I was going 101 miles an hour on the motorway in a range over the week after I passed I had no fucking idea I was it was 4 am in the morning I just dropped someone off at the airport in London and I was driving back to Manchester but talk to me about that process and what that taught you well yeah I think I think first and foremost something that was really I think it was really valuable that came out of that was that actually that was a really kind of great notification to the fact that I kind of changed from being or kind of changed from being a kid you know running a business you know into a leader you're leading a team and like leading a, leading an organisation and leading like a vision yeah and so I think you know if anything for me that kind of was a really really good learning curve to understand that it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
[579] It doesn't matter how small the mistake is or whatever, but it's more about the message that it actually sends.
[580] And so, like, as a leader, like I mentioned before, like obviously, like, yeah, a huge portion of the behaviour of any organisation is stimulated by that of the leader.
[581] It's like, well, you know, how am I actually showing up to work?
[582] And what do people think?
[583] Because it's not enough, like, it's not enough to just win.
[584] And it's not enough to just be smart.
[585] You know, it's how you win.
[586] You know, like, so are you, yeah, are you winning and being the douche?
[587] bag that's like going around bragging everyone about how great you are, you know, or are you winning and then taking your team out for dinner and celebrating with them because they've had a massive achievement and you're like actually getting around them and congratulating them.
[588] Because at the end of the day, like no organization and you're like, you know, Steve Jobs, like great dude, obviously, ultra smart, visionary, genius, whatever.
[589] It's like, but he won because he's an incredible team around him as well.
[590] And without the people who couldn't have done that, you know, so as a leader I think that doing, you know, making a mistake or whatever it is, you know, speeding, fine, cool, whatever, right?
[591] But I think at the end of the day, it's like, what do we'll just take away from that?
[592] So for me, I took away like, well, I can actually have a profound impact on people by doing good things and all bad things.
[593] What am I going to choose to do?
[594] Let's choose to do some good things.
[595] So that was kind of what I took out of that.
[596] And, you know, I've read that there's over 20 million people using your products.
[597] Is that accurate?
[598] So we've had, we would have had in total, I think, about 35 million people use the product now in total.
[599] Obviously, there's different amount of people using it any given point in time.
[600] But yeah, plenty of people.
[601] And this is across the body guides, the app, sweat.
[602] All of our trainers now, yeah.
[603] The books, the accessories.
[604] Yep, all that stuff, yeah.
[605] Pretty incredible.
[606] Yeah, to be honest, man, like, I think it's sometimes we forget about how many people that actually is and how many people are being affected by, like, what we're doing in a really, really good way, you know, like, so that's, you know, nearly two times a population of the country that I grew up in.
[607] Yeah.
[608] And that's like, and for me, like, you know, early.
[609] on like again like yeah you always are focused on the wins and the games and the progress and how you do that stuff but every now and again like you know calling out that stuff and being like wow like we've actually like had a pretty big impact on like literally millions of people's lives and like that's a pretty big like wow moment you know for me and for Kayla so and this is a bit of an obscure question it's not written down anywhere yeah I just sometimes I just sometimes you know because we're coming to the end of this conversation so I just wanted to go off in a couple of random directions yeah go ahead um are you scared of dying that's a good question I would say, so I'll put it this way, I would be scared of not being able to add value, all the value to the world that I believe I can add.
[610] And how much of value is that?
[611] A lot more than what I'm adding currently.
[612] So, in other words, I'm not so much fearful about the notion of not being here and being on the planet.
[613] Like, I think that's an inevitable thing, right?
[614] Yeah.
[615] I mean, we'll see what happens over the next 50 years, right?
[616] But I think, you know, more so, like I think that, you know, I'm, again, and, you know, arrogance, confidence, whatever like I'm really confident that you know based on like how passionate I am and how driven I am and the stuff that I've been able to learn and the stuff that I inevitably will learn that I think that I can do some pretty cool things for people and I can add some pretty good value and whether that's on like a individual level or whether that's a 35 million women around the world you know like I think that I'm really blessed to be in the position that I am in and I'm really blessed to have the mindset that I have you know so I think that I would be afraid you know I'd be afraid to not be here and you know if I you know hadn't really had a red hot crack at being able to do that in a big way.
[617] And so I think that we've done an all right job to date, but I think I'm still kind of only really just getting warm.
[618] So I guess it's fear of untapped potential.
[619] Yeah, I think so.
[620] Yeah, it's just, it's, you know, it'd be fear of waste, you know, basically.
[621] I guess last question then, which is a piece of advice.
[622] You know, I've read through your story and it was super inspiring.
[623] You're now on various rich lists and things like that.
[624] Your Lamborghini I hear.
[625] Yeah, I actually just got rid of it.
[626] Got rid of it.
[627] What Lamborghini was it?
[628] It was a Huracan.
[629] Oh, nice.
[630] Very drivable car here.
[631] Yes, it is.
[632] Not what I would fucking know, but you've got 35 million people using your products and all these things.
[633] You know, there's going to be some people out there that are listening to this podcast right now, and they have big dreams.
[634] They have a level of belief that they can achieve those dreams.
[635] Yeah.
[636] And they're living a life that is not true to who they are.
[637] Yeah.
[638] This is probably like, you know, it's the number one reported regret of the dying, is that they didn't live a life true to themselves.
[639] Should on their shit on that.
[640] Yeah, they should have done and things they should, you know, and they kind of let life pass them by for whatever reason.
[641] What, you know, and this is also probably the most common message I get in my inbox.
[642] What message do you give to those people that think maybe the life that they're living isn't completely true to who they are?
[643] And like, is there anything actionable that they can do to pursue that?
[644] Big questions, so.
[645] Yeah, no, no, like good questions, man, good questions.
[646] Yeah, I think, well, I think I said this like really, really early on you when I was talking about, like, some of the adversity that I went through, like, as a younger, as a younger person.
[647] But I think, like, at the end of the day, like, you know, who's in the driver's seat, man?
[648] Like, who's driving?
[649] You know, like, every single person on this planet effectively is in control of their life in one way or another.
[650] Like, a lot of people can, you know, put some extreme situation up and say, like, I'm not in control of this, I'm not in control of that and so on and so forth.
[651] And in some cases, perhaps that's true.
[652] But the thing that is consistent in common among every single person on the planet is that they're in control of something that impacts their life.
[653] You know, so like, sure, you might not have enough money to move out of home and you might not have a job and this and that and the other and whatever it's like.
[654] But you can control what you choose to learn to get a job.
[655] You know, you can control what you choose to do with your time.
[656] You can control whether you want to have one job or two jobs.
[657] Yeah, you can control whether you want to spend that money on a house or spend that money on a car.
[658] You know, so there's no, there's no right path.
[659] You know, I think that right now there's a battle between, you know, maybe the millennials and our parents.
[660] We've been like, oh, you've got to go to university and you've got to get a house and you've got to do whatever, right?
[661] You know, if you want to have kind of like what we would forecast as being a generally pretty successful and decent life, like that's one way to go about it, right?
[662] But I don't think that that rule book necessarily matters anymore.
[663] But at the same time, I don't think that everyone in the millennial generation also wants to go through that, like they don't necessarily want to have money.
[664] Some people just might want to live a relatively normal, humble life.
[665] They might want to travel once a year or twice a year and whatever, right?
[666] So I think that, you know, first, you know, first, if you want to, you know, first thing, get in control, but figure out what you want to do.
[667] Because, like, running a business isn't for everyone.
[668] 100%.
[669] Yeah, so, like, I think that it's cool to be like, oh, like, Lambos, man, and, like, private jets and, like, whatever, right?
[670] It's like, but do you actually want that life?
[671] Because that life's not about just having the car.
[672] That life's also about the long days.
[673] It's about the pressure and the stress and the whatever.
[674] Yeah, and you might not want that.
[675] You know, do you want the house and the kids and whatever?
[676] Like, no, maybe you don't.
[677] You know, so I think everyone's in control.
[678] We've all got equal control.
[679] I think it's about taking the control to the extreme and then controlling what you want, yeah, and then working towards getting it.
[680] Amazing.
[681] Thank you so much for your time.
[682] I really appreciate it.
[683] Thanks for having me, mate.
[684] It's been great to get to meet you.