David Letterman

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman.

[2] Hi.

[3] Hi.

[4] It's a very, very, very, very, very most very, very, very special day of my life today on this Monday.

[5] Because I get to talk to my boyhood idol.

[6] Oh, it was so special getting to be a part of that.

[7] You guys should listen to the fact check because we're going to really debrief on your feelings.

[8] Anyone who's ever listened to this show knows that Letterman for me is the North Star.

[9] And all I ever wanted to do is just be on a show.

[10] That was it.

[11] That was why I wanted to be in show business.

[12] And I mean, we've had so many incredible guests come through, and that's their North Star.

[13] Like, he is ubiquitous for people who are in comedy.

[14] Any comedian of my age will most likely say Bill Murray and David Letterman are it.

[15] Those two designed a comedic paradigm that we're still kind of living in.

[16] There's this irreverent take on everything that's just, you know, It's trickled down.

[17] I mean, he's a god.

[18] There's no getting around it.

[19] Yes.

[20] So that's precursory knowledge.

[21] So he arrives at the house.

[22] And he gets out of the car.

[23] And the very first thing he does is he looks around him.

[24] He really takes in the scene.

[25] And he looks to the garage that's being built in my yard.

[26] And first thing he does is he walks into the garage.

[27] There's six guys having lunch.

[28] And he goes, guys, great work.

[29] Everyone's free for the rest of the day.

[30] You can all go home.

[31] and oh my god they're in a garage eating lunch yeah and david letterman walks in and tells him that they can all knock off for the rest of the day the cool and i'm just watching this whole thing out the window and it was so amusing to me and i thought that's the dream he's a dream he's a dream yeah the playfulness the comfort level in his own body to give people that little interaction but enjoy it himself when that was the first thing i saw i was like oh my god this This is going to be the most lovely.

[32] This is going to be lovely.

[33] Yeah, it was very special.

[34] He is promoting something that is actually fucking terrific.

[35] It's called Bono in the Edge, a sort of homecoming with Dave Letterman.

[36] Dave goes to Dublin and does a documentary with you two.

[37] And it's incredibly interesting.

[38] And if you even have a mild interest in you, too, you'll be reminded of how brilliant that band was, especially in the early days.

[39] It's a really good dog.

[40] I had it on before I came for the interview And I didn't get to finish And I wanted to stay and keep watching It's really good It's so good And the story behind the band So much better than I knew And Dave is fucking He's Dave in it man He's perfect I wore makeup for him You wore makeup And I wore a velvet jumpsuit for him And that was kind of to give him Something to make fun of me for But he didn't do it He didn't take it I was trying to hand him to layup I was trying to get an assist I was a hand on the layup Please enjoy my hero, David Letterman.

[41] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[42] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[43] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[44] He's an armchair.

[45] Oh my God, you look wonderful.

[46] I wore makeup today.

[47] Oh, my God, it worked.

[48] You look great.

[49] Hi.

[50] Hi.

[51] Hi, hi, let's say Rob, Rob again.

[52] Rob again, I'm Monica.

[53] I'm Dave, Monica.

[54] Pleasure to meet you.

[55] Thank you.

[56] Hi, Tom.

[57] Nice to meet you.

[58] Thanks for having us.

[59] How was the little ride over?

[60] We had a nice little ride over and we stopped at the grove.

[61] Well, listen to this.

[62] That's a nice ride.

[63] I love the group.

[64] That's the definition of a nice ride over.

[65] That's right.

[66] Tell them the impossible thing that happened.

[67] We are at the grove looking for sneakers and we run into Craig Ferguson.

[68] No, what?

[69] And then Kimmel was working the register.

[70] Oh my god, what a great day for people at the Grove.

[71] Oh, my God, yeah.

[72] They must have thought they were filming.

[73] In a sim.

[74] A sim.

[75] Living in that simulation.

[76] It confirmed the simulation for a lot of people.

[77] I love this place.

[78] Monica's right.

[79] This is magic.

[80] You should do this.

[81] As you can see, I tore up these walls myself, and then I just said, I'll just put some tape over the gaps.

[82] He wants to make it fancy, and I really don't.

[83] No, I just want to put a door on the bathroom.

[84] Why do we all stop talking until we've been?

[85] begin.

[86] Yeah, that's a good move.

[87] Good move.

[88] That's the difference between TV and podcasts.

[89] I guess so.

[90] We're probably already rolling.

[91] Yeah, our ABR.

[92] A .B. Yeah, or ABR.

[93] Okay, I sit right here.

[94] I sat in that and pulled it out and hopes your head wouldn't hit.

[95] Oh, my God.

[96] I think I nailed it.

[97] Oh, you tested it?

[98] Yes, yes.

[99] Yes, I was so stressed.

[100] And then I thought, you know, fucking Dave's tall.

[101] Oh, these aren't readers.

[102] Oh, these readers.

[103] Yeah.

[104] Well, unless there is.

[105] material contracts to look over instead.

[106] I'd love to pass you my notes and just have you tell me what you think of the research.

[107] Thank you very much.

[108] Did you surrender to readers late?

[109] Well, here's the thing.

[110] And is this going to be on the show?

[111] Because if it's not, I'm not going to tell you.

[112] Everything.

[113] We're recording.

[114] We're recording.

[115] I'm hot off of a diagnosis yesterday.

[116] I finally surrendered and got a prescription literally 20 hours ago.

[117] So today's the first day, I admit, I have readers.

[118] Congratulations.

[119] Thank you.

[120] Well, here's what happened.

[121] You get floaters.

[122] And nobody knows what they are.

[123] They're a viscous matter that floats around.

[124] And when they first occurred to me, I started naming them like stars and constellations.

[125] I would recognize them.

[126] And then the floaters turned into cataracts.

[127] Oh.

[128] So I was having trouble in low light.

[129] So the optometrist, Dr. Harmon, says, we can do this.

[130] We'll do one eye.

[131] We'll do the other eye.

[132] Bang, Zoom.

[133] Congratulations.

[134] So I go in for the briefing.

[135] And he says, now, you know, for a little extra money, we can give you.

[136] the distance vision on the top half, and we can give you the close -up reader on the bottom half.

[137] And I said to myself, well, that will never work.

[138] What he's describing here is something impossible.

[139] I don't trust that technology.

[140] Let's just clean up the vision.

[141] And he says, yeah, yeah, you'll be Chuck Yeager with the division we get with the regular.

[142] And I said, fine.

[143] So what Dr. Harmon and others don't tell you is that say goodbye to being able to read anything without the reading glasses.

[144] But I do, I have 20 -20, I can see and identify birds out this window if you like.

[145] Wow.

[146] I would love that.

[147] Well, not right now.

[148] Feel free in the middle to just call out what bird you're seeing.

[149] Well, especially if you see something that's rare.

[150] Look, there's an immature golden.

[151] How long ago was that procedure?

[152] Spring of last year, fall of last year, I don't recall.

[153] And it was fantastic.

[154] Because they give you, you need to be relaxed.

[155] And it's a combination of Versed and Propofol.

[156] That's the combo.

[157] Oh, no. Dax is so...

[158] Maybe I shouldn't bring this up, right?

[159] No, no, no, no, listen, listen.

[160] I have a whole system.

[161] When I get surgery, I start charming the anesthesiologist, and I say, listen, I know the order.

[162] You give the Versa said to calm me down, and then you hit me with the Propofal.

[163] The Propheaval's not enjoyable.

[164] You're gone.

[165] I said, can we extend that window of calming me down?

[166] Let's get that in me five or ten minutes before we head over to the theater.

[167] They don't go for that, but that's always my pitch to them.

[168] You're having your surgery done in a theater?

[169] Yes, in the operating theater.

[170] Is this a Netflix deal?

[171] Yes, yes, yes.

[172] I will agree with you, but I'm sorry I even brought it up.

[173] Because you know I'm an addict?

[174] Yes.

[175] Well, look, I might tell some stories about drinking.

[176] We're both alcoholics, right?

[177] Yes, I was addicted to alcohol.

[178] It's his favorite subject.

[179] It's all he wants to talk about is drugs and alcohol.

[180] Well, that in the upper and lower GI.

[181] By the way, here's a tip.

[182] going in for routine examinations.

[183] Just lie about your weight.

[184] Ah, great.

[185] Because if you lie about your weight, they increase the dose of sedative.

[186] So I routinely add 20 pounds.

[187] And then when you get on that wave, you just, all right, that's it.

[188] Just keep me and then bang.

[189] Okay.

[190] Well, look, it's very public.

[191] It backfired.

[192] But there was a sweet spot.

[193] I haven't drank since 2004.

[194] Okay.

[195] So I was 29.

[196] And before I fucked up, these things are freebies, right?

[197] You go, you get that, you get your colonoscopy, and you get a three -second reminder of what it feels like to not be.

[198] Now, can I ask a question on this?

[199] Yeah, of course.

[200] So that three -second reminder is worth the preparation that keeps you up all night the night before.

[201] Now, if a person is doing this more than a hobby, can a person actually facilitate a longer version of the three -second ride?

[202] Oh, absolutely.

[203] you could just be on the Versaed.

[204] And you would be happy as a clam for a very long time.

[205] So you could stay just on the verge of feeling the wave crash.

[206] You could stay right up there.

[207] Yes.

[208] Oh, for the love of God.

[209] I think you would appreciate this.

[210] Well, maybe not because you're so recognizable.

[211] I'm sure you get away with murder.

[212] But I had not been intoxicated in any form for eight years.

[213] And the first time I went for a colonoscopy, I get the Versed.

[214] And the nurse says, can you feel it?

[215] it.

[216] And I say, as I'm passing out, well, you just went from a six to a ten.

[217] I think that's a good joke.

[218] It just means I'm drunk.

[219] She wasn't a six, Dave.

[220] She was already an eight and she went to a nine.

[221] Oh, so even under the influence of anesthesia, you were being sexist.

[222] You know I was more trying to get approval for being funny, I would say.

[223] But I guess, yes, the mechanism was sexist.

[224] Yeah, that's the first thing that came to my mind.

[225] I've had the arthroscopic thing where they go up inside an artery and take a look at your heart and all of that.

[226] And for that, they want to be able to talk to you.

[227] So I think they use exclusively versus said.

[228] So you can continue to have a conversation while the procedure is taking place.

[229] How are we feeling now?

[230] And I would say, well, we're feeling like we're being cheated on the dose.

[231] And so they would load me up again and you'd be fine.

[232] And then it would wear off and then you'd have to go through the same thing.

[233] It's like the, you know, we're closing, son.

[234] You've got to go home.

[235] It was like that.

[236] Yes, yes, yes.

[237] I know other people who have been addicts.

[238] Is this all right to say that?

[239] Oh, God, yeah.

[240] Again, I talk about nonstop.

[241] It's such a big part of my life.

[242] That they have to avoid certain medical procedures.

[243] Those people are smart.

[244] I brace things.

[245] I break bones.

[246] I get surgeries.

[247] I'm not trying to do it like a hero.

[248] Like, I'm not trying to suffer.

[249] But I did fuck up.

[250] You know, look, there was a section in all this 18 years where I did have a four month where I went off the rails.

[251] And what was the precipitating reason?

[252] Well, there's a ton of factors.

[253] One was, it was COVID, which is unique.

[254] I think that thing did a lot to us we weren't entirely aware of.

[255] My wife and I's relationship, we had a really well -oiled machine seeing each other three hours a day.

[256] But 24 -7 was like, oh, God, we got to go back to the drawing board.

[257] A lot of things were happening.

[258] And then I got the surgery, and I went back -to -back.

[259] I had to get a hand surgery, and then very shortly thereafter, I had to get up shoulder.

[260] one.

[261] And so I'll tell you exactly what happened.

[262] I know what being out of control drinking looks like because I did it for so long.

[263] It's very unmanageable for me. This was insanely manageable.

[264] Like I could still interview people.

[265] I could still be present for the kids.

[266] I was up on time.

[267] It was very misleading.

[268] How many hours in the day were you under the influence?

[269] From the time I got up until I went to bed.

[270] You could manage it that well.

[271] Yes.

[272] You're not slurring your speech.

[273] There's no obvious signs.

[274] Your cognitions may be reduced, but I don't think dramatic, not like when you're hammered.

[275] Monica saw some signs, yeah, yeah.

[276] That was part of the, yeah.

[277] But if you're doing the records, if you're doing a podcast, the cognition is pretty low anyway, right?

[278] It is.

[279] It requires zero.

[280] That's why it's ushered in all of us that are now popular doing it.

[281] You know, I do like this topic because I was aware of the fact that you didn't drink.

[282] From the time I was young, you were always kind of very honest about the fact that you didn't drink.

[283] And then as I had to go then join a program to quit drinking at 29, my curiosity about your history just went up.

[284] I thought, oh, I don't know that part of the story.

[285] Did Dave just have somehow this magic willpower that he quit at 34?

[286] Yeah.

[287] Well, I want to ask you just a couple of more questions.

[288] Does talking about it rekindle a fire?

[289] No, not at all.

[290] So it has to be a true episode of some trauma.

[291] It's when it gets in you.

[292] As you, I imagine, have experienced, you have a game plan before you get to the bar.

[293] I'm going to have three drinks tonight, and then I'm going to go home and go to sleep.

[294] And then the second, the elixir starts working, there's a whole new person.

[295] I'm normally a very trustworthy and in control human.

[296] And then all of a sudden, the new version of me arrives, which is like, I don't give a fuck about any consequence that comes after the third drink.

[297] So the same principles happening.

[298] Once it's in me, I don't want to let this feeling go.

[299] And let's just try to not get caught.

[300] Well, I think about this a lot of time because people are always surprised when I tell them, no, I didn't go to AA.

[301] And I thought AA was a miracle, and I think it does work.

[302] I don't think it works to the degree people believe it works.

[303] Sure.

[304] And I think the recidivism or rabidicism, either way, is pretty high.

[305] Yeah, I do too.

[306] I quit because I realize if I don't quit, there's a good chance I could screw something up and lose the job that I'd wanted all my life.

[307] So that was the single final motivator to stop.

[308] And subsequently, thinking about this, I realize, I wonder if perhaps I was not an alcoholic, but it was the alcohol that made me feel like a regular human.

[309] So what is that?

[310] Is that alcoholism?

[311] Because there have been other things that have helped boost my self -impression and self -esteem, which were not alcohol, one of which was being in front of 400 people every night and trying to make them laugh.

[312] And if that were the case, that was fine.

[313] So I don't know if my use of alcohol, and I started when I was like 11 and stopped when I was 34.

[314] It was very Indiana of you.

[315] Well, it was the dad's having a scotch and soda at Christmas, Cuddy Sark.

[316] And I said, well, geez, what's that?

[317] Well, here, here you go.

[318] And by gosh, I just thought, whoa, I'm 11.

[319] Where have they been hiding this?

[320] Yes.

[321] Yes.

[322] Off and running.

[323] See, I think that's the element that for people who are not addicts, they can't relate, which is you have it.

[324] And the second you have it for the first time, you go, oh, this is what I've been craving.

[325] This is like the calm I've been desiring, right?

[326] People would say to me, why are you doing this night after night after night?

[327] And I said, I feel better this way.

[328] Yeah.

[329] Did it take you a while to learn to live without it?

[330] No. I mean, I tried to quit.

[331] I would go to the doctor for periodic physicals.

[332] Oh, geez, your liver feels like a recliner.

[333] And then they would say, do you drink?

[334] And, of course, yeah, a couple of beers here and there.

[335] which is just a lie.

[336] But I realized I had to quit because I was worried about screwing up my life.

[337] Do you think perhaps you didn't require any kind of help because you did have an outlet?

[338] You had another external way to regulate your insides.

[339] Yes, I substituted one crutch, one deadly possibility for another, which was more benign and greatly positive.

[340] But I think that's it.

[341] That's the element.

[342] So what does that mean in terms of the diagnosis of alcoholism?

[343] Yeah.

[344] I don't know.

[345] I agree with you.

[346] If you look at the statistics, the best estimate is like 30 % of people will achieve sobriety through AA.

[347] So I completely agree with you.

[348] It doesn't have a great success rate.

[349] Only does it have a great success rate relative to the other approaches.

[350] Oh, yeah.

[351] Your example is an anomaly that you could have just done it.

[352] I think that's very rare.

[353] Well, that's what makes me wonder about the label alcoholic.

[354] I don't know, but I couldn't stop drinking.

[355] And I was drunk more days out of a week than not.

[356] Don't you think it's a spectrum a little bit?

[357] Oh, God, yeah.

[358] Like, we have people in our friendship circle who are addicts.

[359] To me, that's different than...

[360] Werewolves.

[361] Yeah, the moon comes out.

[362] You become a completely different person.

[363] I also think disease really gets linked to that.

[364] I see certain people as...

[365] That's a disease.

[366] Then there's problematic drinking, I think, that's different.

[367] But you're hitting on something that's really key also to how I went down the relapse rabbit hole.

[368] which is, I too wondered, A, was I just young?

[369] Was I so pessimistic about my opportunities and this thing I left Michigan to pursue?

[370] Did I have so much fear?

[371] And then as I've built this kind of stable foundation and life and financial security and a family, it filtered in, right?

[372] Like, oh, maybe it was that.

[373] But then I quickly discovered, no, no, that's me. You give me something I like.

[374] If I feel good for nine minutes from anything, I'm going to go, what was that?

[375] And I want to repeat it nonstop.

[376] Yeah.

[377] It was the same, the comparison of the audience reaction and the alcohol.

[378] Oh, this feels good.

[379] And also why I tried to avoid other things because I felt like I already have a pretty strong fondness for alcohol.

[380] I don't need to connect it.

[381] For example, when I lived here in the 70s, everybody was enjoying cocaine.

[382] And I just thought, I'm having my own fun here.

[383] I don't need to add this.

[384] Yeah, comedy store in 75.

[385] As someone in comedy, you hear all these stories of just how.

[386] out in the open it all was, or that Rodney Dangerfield would walk into a casting meeting and pull out an ounce of cocaine and just, you know, freely blow lines as he's trying to get a job in a movie.

[387] And you think, well, it's much different.

[388] Yeah.

[389] I didn't need that.

[390] Am I in the friendship circle now?

[391] Is that what you're talking about?

[392] Yes, you're in the pod.

[393] Welcome.

[394] But it is, you mentioned friendship circle.

[395] Yeah, we call that a pod too.

[396] That's confusing.

[397] Oh, right.

[398] Yeah.

[399] No, above friendship would be you're in the pod.

[400] You know, the -oh, good.

[401] A group of friends.

[402] I want everything I can get out of this.

[403] You got it.

[404] We're going to give you the platinum package.

[405] Now, here's a question I have.

[406] I was listening to what I thought was the show a couple of weeks ago.

[407] Somebody said to me, they had a bear expert on.

[408] Okay.

[409] And I said, oh, I like bears.

[410] So I tune in the show and you're on the show.

[411] Yeah.

[412] And maybe it was rock.

[413] No, it's not.

[414] It's David Ferrier.

[415] You listen to flightless bird.

[416] Yeah.

[417] About bears.

[418] Right.

[419] Yeah.

[420] Did you learn anything?

[421] No. because I didn't know who was talking.

[422] And then, and then...

[423] Oh, David's going to be so happy to hear that you accidentally.

[424] I thought he was the bear guy, but he wasn't the bear guy.

[425] They don't even have bears in New Zealand.

[426] That's right.

[427] I brought the only bear New Zealand's ever had on a movie we shot.

[428] You pointed that out off mic.

[429] And so I thought, well, wait a minute.

[430] If this is his podcast, why doesn't the man have a microphone?

[431] We produce a lot of shows.

[432] How many shows?

[433] We do probably 200 episodes a year of content.

[434] 65, 70 % of that is us.

[435] And then David has a show.

[436] We have a child therapist who has a great show.

[437] I did a fertility show.

[438] We've done dating shows.

[439] I had a heavy friend and a fitness friend, race to 270 pounds.

[440] Everything's on the table.

[441] And what about the bear guy?

[442] Does he have a show?

[443] Not yet, but was he interesting enough?

[444] Yeah.

[445] We could bring him on.

[446] Did you learn anything?

[447] No. You didn't.

[448] No, I was confused.

[449] I thought, now, wait a minute.

[450] I thought this was going to be Dax and Monica.

[451] And it was Monica and person I didn't know.

[452] who I mistakenly believed was the bear guy.

[453] Yeah, sure.

[454] Was not the bear guy.

[455] And then you get on off mic talking about your experience with the bear in New Zealand.

[456] Oh, that was in there?

[457] Yes, because Dax, let's just pull the carton back.

[458] We are exclusive to Spotify.

[459] This show, Armchair Expert is.

[460] So flightless bird is available everywhere.

[461] Dax is not technically allowed to be everywhere.

[462] Contractually.

[463] So a strange guy stops in sometimes and has a story that sounds like a story Dax might have.

[464] Yes.

[465] So that also tells me you were on Apple podcast.

[466] You were not on spot on.

[467] Honestly, I don't care.

[468] I don't know how to get out of this room.

[469] I know.

[470] You're never leaving.

[471] We got you here.

[472] I got the air on for you.

[473] So when you started this show, whose idea was it?

[474] It was your idea.

[475] No, it was Dax's idea.

[476] He wanted to do a long form interview show.

[477] Right.

[478] And I just said, I'm tagging along.

[479] Is this well -trod territory?

[480] Is everybody sick of talking about this?

[481] No. So you started the show in the world of podcast.

[482] How do you know if it's doing well?

[483] We get real time because it's all digital and over the computer.

[484] We can look at any moment and see how many people have listened to it in an episode.

[485] Yeah.

[486] Because as you may know, I am ratings poison.

[487] Well, you're blowing into all these areas I want to be in.

[488] So I'm going to rain you in a little bit.

[489] You're the grizzly bear now.

[490] I am the bear expert.

[491] In order, when you retired, you must have the same architecture in your head that I was given in Michigan, which is you work hard, you save a bunch of money, and then you go down and fuck off to Florida.

[492] And it's so imprinted in my mind that I can't help romanticizing about retiring for some weird reason.

[493] And then another voice is like, retire from what?

[494] Chatting with people you love.

[495] I have to imagine for you, it was a complicated experience.

[496] It was awful.

[497] I agree with you on that myth, and I think it was kind of stamped into people in the 50s.

[498] You work hard, take home the money from the factory, the company, the store, wherever.

[499] And thank God at 55, oh, I don't have to do that.

[500] anyway.

[501] Well, that's nonsense.

[502] It was difficult for me in the beginning about the retirement because there's no schedule.

[503] All of a sudden, for 30 years, I had a schedule.

[504] I knew almost to the exact moment that I put on my tie.

[505] It was like that.

[506] And it's wrote.

[507] Yeah.

[508] And the validation.

[509] Well, that's what I was going to say.

[510] In particular, the external thing was also now taken.

[511] Yeah.

[512] And booze has been gone for 30 years.

[513] That's right.

[514] If you're enjoying your job, just keep working until they have to get 911 in there to cart you out.

[515] Right.

[516] But do you have this kind of seesaw in your head of like, you retire?

[517] And then you go, fuck, I kind of want to do something again.

[518] But I shouldn't because I said I retired.

[519] And then I go do something.

[520] And then I go, no, I should have been retired.

[521] And then do you find that you're on a seesaw of like wanting to work, not wanting to work?

[522] I was very lucky in that regard that I got to do a little of what I used to do.

[523] And it was enough of what I used to do to make me feel better about myself.

[524] But it wasn't five days a week kind of nonsense.

[525] Yes.

[526] And then now we're to the long form.

[527] part, which I wanted to ask you about.

[528] The reason we started this is that I had been on late night talk shows 50 times.

[529] You have six minutes.

[530] Be amazing.

[531] And then I started guesting on other people's long form podcasts.

[532] And I found that I could like relax and perhaps slowly paint a whole picture of my opinion.

[533] And I found that so rewarding in relation to the other thing I had been doing that I was like, this is such freedom.

[534] And I wonder if when you were doing the late show, you felt that compartmentalized experience.

[535] And then when you got to do your Netflix show, did you experience that same thing like, well, fuck, man, we can now walk.

[536] We can take a stroll.

[537] You've described it accurately and aptly.

[538] And I used to run interviews over so, so long that they'd be in editing till nearly airtime.

[539] Then we got to do the longer form.

[540] But the problem with that freedom comes the question about, well, geez, isn't this just deadly dull?

[541] Yes.

[542] So you don't know.

[543] And then later you find out from your friends.

[544] He's looking at his friends now.

[545] He's two friends here.

[546] That, you know what, if you could just move it along.

[547] So while it may be satisfying to somebody who has an enormous ego and a big mouth, it may not be the end product.

[548] Well, it's more time on the Verset.

[549] You're exactly right.

[550] Yeah, if you can just live in this space, again, once I like it, I don't want to let it go.

[551] So why would I want to step out of this?

[552] Yeah.

[553] By the way, this experience here today will carry me for a couple of days feeling better about myself.

[554] It should.

[555] That's the goal.

[556] Is that the goal?

[557] I think to feel better about yourself?

[558] Yeah, and connected.

[559] Up here in the circle of friends.

[560] That's right.

[561] We want to make everyone feel good.

[562] Wait, there's an elephant in the room that I don't know if you're planning on telling him.

[563] Yeah.

[564] But I feel like I should, since you told Matt Damon about my history.

[565] Okay, I was going to save it to the very end because I know how much he hates it.

[566] Okay.

[567] Uh -oh.

[568] But I appreciate it.

[569] Now there's a dangle.

[570] Matt Damon is monica's.

[571] You and I don't have a word to explain.

[572] You'll never understand it.

[573] The amount of affection she has towards him.

[574] Admiration.

[575] Yeah.

[576] And just love and lost.

[577] Carnal, everything.

[578] Really?

[579] He would come on the show and I always seemed like America's, here's the nice guy everybody should be.

[580] A smart, handsome, chatty, personable.

[581] With a little bit of a potty mouth.

[582] Makes him interesting.

[583] We didn't get there.

[584] Is he the one that would do the Matthew McConaughey?

[585] Every time he would come on, I would make sure that he would do his impression of Matthew McConaughey to the point where he got very, very tired of it.

[586] But I couldn't get enough of it.

[587] Can I do mine for you?

[588] Yeah.

[589] Okay.

[590] So, as we're all, I'm sure, you must be obsessed with Matthew McConae.

[591] I'd imagine he has everything you and I don't have.

[592] We're tall, lanky goofballs.

[593] This guy looks like he's the most comfortable in his skin of any human.

[594] And he seems to genuinely enjoy fame, which is incredible.

[595] And I don't say that judgmentally, it's awesome.

[596] Like, it seems like he is who he wanted to be.

[597] So I'm on a camping trip.

[598] He happens to be there.

[599] I'm ignored.

[600] Wait, no, wait a minute.

[601] He happens to be on a camping trip with you.

[602] It's a fancy camping trip.

[603] Like, we get invited to someone's house up north of here, and it's like 100 campers.

[604] He's there.

[605] This makes no sense.

[606] Okay.

[607] Well, the point is I'm there.

[608] And he's the hot girl in school.

[609] So I'm not going to talk to him, right?

[610] That'll show him.

[611] Yeah.

[612] Well, Dave, that never works.

[613] It happened to work.

[614] So I'm just, like, washing some dishes in this little sink.

[615] And my assumption, he doesn't know who I am.

[616] And I hear all of a sudden, Mr. Dax, Mr. Dax.

[617] What happened with that movie, Chaps?

[618] I dumped that movie.

[619] I heard they dumped that movie.

[620] I heard that movie's good.

[621] What happened with that movie?

[622] And I'm like, oh, my God, he knows my name.

[623] He knows the movie I just made.

[624] He knows it tanked.

[625] He's saying it's the studio's fault like this is off to a perfect start.

[626] And then I find myself in.

[627] lawn chairs next to this little lake.

[628] And I get to talk to him for a couple hours.

[629] And I'm getting to ask the questions you'd want to ask on your show, right?

[630] Because again, as you and I, we share this drinking thing.

[631] I said to him, how is it that I know you drink like a motherfucker?

[632] And yet you go jogging every morning at 7 a .m. You just have a constitution?

[633] And he goes, yeah, I got a constitution.

[634] He goes, listen, Dax, sometimes when I'm drinking, I look in the mayor.

[635] And I say, McConaughey, we're going hard.

[636] But tomorrow morning, we're going to wake up and we're going to run.

[637] And I've got to tell you something right now.

[638] Some of my best workouts when I push through that hangover, I break through, and that's where it's at.

[639] Wow.

[640] You know, I'm watching them on TV, but I'm somehow in it.

[641] And it's wonderful.

[642] I don't do impressions happily, I think, in this context.

[643] But it reminds me of when Paul Newman was Paul Newman and was, I think, till the day he died.

[644] I remember as a kid reading that Paul.

[645] Paul would purposefully, each day, drink a case of Budweiser, a case, 24 bottles of Budweiser.

[646] Sure.

[647] Let's do the ounces.

[648] That's the 360 ounces of beer.

[649] And then his secret was, go right to the steam bath and soak his head in a tub or sink of ice water.

[650] And that's how he handled it.

[651] Did you watch the great documentary about he on HBO recently?

[652] Ethan Hawk made it?

[653] Oh, I think I was in it.

[654] Were you in it?

[655] Was I in it?

[656] I'm being told I was in, thank you.

[657] You were fucking great.

[658] That was a test to see if you saw, not me. I knew you were in it.

[659] I was testing you.

[660] Oh, my God.

[661] I had particular interest in that aspect, because that was very quiet.

[662] No one really knew.

[663] And Joanne Woodward even is on record saying, no, he was an alcoholic.

[664] I'd make him sleep in the driveway.

[665] And the notion that he, yes, soaked his face every morning and ice.

[666] And this is my thought.

[667] This is what an addict I am.

[668] I'm like, that's what I didn't do.

[669] Yeah, exactly.

[670] I didn't do it right.

[671] He did it right.

[672] So he walks around looking like Paul Newman every day of his life and has a case of Budweiser.

[673] You know, take the edge off.

[674] You cannot have his abs and drink 24 Budwisers in the morning.

[675] What a freak of nature.

[676] You were kind of close with him, yeah?

[677] Or you guys had racing in common?

[678] He's been gone long enough that I will tell you he and I were pretty much best friends.

[679] You were?

[680] Yeah, pretty much best friends.

[681] We were like brothers.

[682] Oh my God.

[683] No, I hardly knew him.

[684] We're so gullible.

[685] Oh, my God.

[686] You really got us.

[687] You know, fuck you because not only did you get me. So much for the circle of friendship.

[688] Not only did you get me, you actually, like, grinched my heart.

[689] It grew two sizes.

[690] I was like, Dave actually had a can.

[691] Let's try it again.

[692] We're acquaintances.

[693] We got to be friends.

[694] You did.

[695] Yeah.

[696] But I would never presume to insinuate myself into his life.

[697] I knew him.

[698] He and I purchased a car together that I still have the Volvo Wagon.

[699] We knew each other from racing.

[700] We talked on the phone.

[701] So we were friendly.

[702] I went up to the hole in the wall gang once with Paul, a life -changing moment to be sure.

[703] I always felt, not that my opinion counts much, but that's the way people are supposed to be, was Paul.

[704] Yeah.

[705] I watched that thing and I was like, there's some character there that I aspire to have, I guess.

[706] Well, same with me. The problem is the important lessons.

[707] one learns are the ones that one forgets the quickest.

[708] You got to re -learn the important ones and you think, well, this is obvious.

[709] Why didn't it stick?

[710] I have the same epiphany every three weeks.

[711] I mean, literally, it's the same one.

[712] I just watched the documentary Navalny, the Soviet dissident.

[713] Current or from like the Bolshevik Revolution?

[714] He's in prison now for his behavior.

[715] Okay.

[716] Is it great?

[717] Talk about an epiphany.

[718] You think, holy shit, I got to do something.

[719] He's got a family, his daughters at Stanford.

[720] He'll never get out of this prison.

[721] They've poisoned him once.

[722] He was running for president against Putin.

[723] It's terrifying because it's 20, 23, we're humans.

[724] Why are humans behaving this way still?

[725] Unanswerable question.

[726] Now, is anybody listening to this?

[727] Millions.

[728] We have a lot of listeners.

[729] But no, I mean this nonsense here.

[730] I got to tell you, one of my questions for you was going to be what books do you read in hopes that will share this.

[731] I mean, I just own my.

[732] That's always the goal.

[733] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[734] Do you like biographies?

[735] I like nonfiction.

[736] My favorite book of all time was written by a guy who's name, I can't recall, about the Wright brothers.

[737] And it was the definitive Wright brother history.

[738] Not the McCullough one.

[739] Nope.

[740] I thought that was okay, but I thought it was like an abbreviation of the one.

[741] I think Fred Winston might have been the guy's name about this book that I read.

[742] Now, okay, so I read at least the McCullough one.

[743] Yeah, nothing wrong with it.

[744] It'll get, yeah, some cursory.

[745] Yeah.

[746] The thing that I guess blew my mind is that those two are the most famous human beings in the world.

[747] That's the weird element that I latched on to.

[748] It's like they would go to Europe and just 100 ,000 people would be gathered to see these two that invented a flying machine.

[749] I thought that was so interesting.

[750] Now, here's the part where people have stopped listening, right?

[751] No. This is an educated audience.

[752] You're in your head about that.

[753] I can tell.

[754] And because I know you well now because we're friends.

[755] Very perceptive.

[756] And this is the part people like.

[757] They like the things you don't hear.

[758] I'll tell you, we interviewed Hillary Clinton, the best part of the interview the thing everyone loves the most is i somehow get her to admit that she's been cleaning her house going from the basement to the top of the house and we stumble upon that bill has this fucking DVD collection and then we realize every man has a DVD collection they will not get rid of right and to hear that those two are struggling with the same issue all married couples are that men want to hold their DVD collection that's the relatable piece that's what's great about that interview I have a DVD collection Of course, you're a laser disc collection That's the true Porkies too Oh, wonderful I'm afraid to believe anything you say now Because you tricked us You'll be happy to Wow, what an accomplishment I tricked them Got it Stay tuned for more Armchair expert If you dare What's up guys It's your girl Kiki And my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you, it's too good.

[759] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[760] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[761] And I don't mean just friends.

[762] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[763] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[764] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[765] We've all been there.

[766] Turning to the Internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rink.

[767] ashes.

[768] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[769] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[770] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[771] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[772] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[773] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[774] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[775] Okay, now you did 6 ,000 shows in 30 plus years.

[776] So you interviewed 12 ,000 people minimally in that time.

[777] Did you have a preference interviewing men or women?

[778] Did you have a different disposition?

[779] Well, I've never had that question.

[780] I'm going to say probably, not knowingly, and it always came down to, was there a relationship beyond just being on a TV show?

[781] If he had what appeared to be and seemed and felt like a friendship, then there was no difference.

[782] If he had a good guess, there was no difference.

[783] If he had a bad guest, there was no difference.

[784] But just because of the way humans are, maybe there was a different feeling that shouldn't exist, I guess, now that we know that.

[785] That was reality.

[786] I'm asking because it just occurred to me literally last week.

[787] I think talking to my wife and then maybe in therapy.

[788] I'm like, oh yeah, when I interview women, I'm so calm and I'm not in a hurry.

[789] I don't have a pacing issue ever when I interview women.

[790] Often when I interview men, I don't know if this is an innate male conflicty thing, or maybe I'm trying to exert my will.

[791] I'm nervous.

[792] They're going to exert their will.

[793] Something happens that I just noticed, wow, my pace is a lot different.

[794] I had this commitment to myself.

[795] Oh, when Dave gets here, I'm going to try my hardest to interview him like he's a woman.

[796] I'm aspiring to interview everyone like I would a woman.

[797] I get that a lot.

[798] Do you?

[799] Yeah.

[800] No. Sit down, Dave.

[801] I want to talk to you just gal to gal.

[802] It is International Women's Day, so this is all very apropos.

[803] Perfect, I mean.

[804] But, you know, everything went away if the person exerted confidence in what they were up to, was not fearfully nervous or frightened, and somebody who might exchange silliness, somebody who could make fun of me if I made fun of them.

[805] Well, I guess maybe for me that's the inherent foundation is that I know.

[806] know how to be playful with females.

[807] I don't always know how to be playful with men.

[808] The best thing I can offer is that is playfulness.

[809] I think that's what, of course, your show had in space.

[810] So you didn't ever have the blessing of interviewing Regis.

[811] No. Because you could be playful with Regis any way you wanted.

[812] I think about things like that.

[813] And I wish times, I wish I, I wish things had changed sooner than they have.

[814] Because you think about what happened and the dynamic.

[815] of years and years ago, and you realize, geez, that was not right.

[816] You mean on your own side of the street?

[817] Yeah, because in those days, many, many, many things that, one, perhaps ignorant ones, felt was acceptable.

[818] We now know, ah, that really wasn't acceptable.

[819] Yeah.

[820] Yeah, that's the inherent problem with comedy and aging.

[821] Your job is to be on the line.

[822] That's the actual job.

[823] And then, of course, the line is moving throughout history.

[824] Things change.

[825] And you are either.

[826] changing in time or you're changing because somebody's tapped you on the shoulder.

[827] Does it bother you a ton?

[828] Or are you able to say, I was a person of my time.

[829] I'm different now and everything's crazy.

[830] Well, I hope I'm different now.

[831] But you know, you feel stupid because does everything need to be pointed out to an adult?

[832] Doesn't an adult grow into obvious things that they may have overlooked or may have been ignorant about earlier in life?

[833] And I feel like I'm the former.

[834] Like, yeah, I don't know.

[835] No. So I'm sorry.

[836] I'm that.

[837] guy.

[838] I wish I was ahead of the trend of being correct about things.

[839] Our friend Obama, who we've both got to interview.

[840] The guy was the greatest, and on the wrong side of some issues.

[841] In some level, it's not possible.

[842] Yeah, I think you're right about that.

[843] But on the other hand, that's no defense.

[844] That's ignorance.

[845] You can't plead ignorance and be set free.

[846] You've got to be a better person.

[847] And maybe the only way you can be a better person is to constantly try to achieve and process information externally that you're not generating internally.

[848] Okay, we'll be right back.

[849] Yeah, yeah.

[850] No, that's great.

[851] Yeah.

[852] That's better said than I. I brought a clip.

[853] No, but that's the difference is wanting to be better actually requires work.

[854] Yeah.

[855] It's not just saying, like, I want that.

[856] That's a good point.

[857] I'm the president of that party.

[858] I'm more comfortable whining about what an awful person I am than exerting the energy to change.

[859] Yeah, that's just even.

[860] Most of us, yeah.

[861] Oh, what a jerk I am.

[862] Oh, well.

[863] Looks for dinner.

[864] On to the next.

[865] Next thought.

[866] Okay, quick question about my next guest needs no introduction.

[867] Right out of the gates, you interviewed a bunch of legends, really.

[868] You know, people that were enormously known and successful and huge.

[869] I was curious if you found that to be a tiny bit of an Achilles in that you want to get someone right when they're establishing their identity, when they're being provocative and letting you in on this new perspective they have, that defines them.

[870] And then there's this interesting backside of it where it seems a lot more like legacy preservation.

[871] And I wondered if that occurred to you as you entered into doing such heavy hitters, or if that wasn't your experience, or if you're aware of that at all.

[872] Like when you get the sense someone's now just in preservation mode, not declaration mode.

[873] The example that comes to my mind is President Obama.

[874] When he came to our show, I was so terrified, which was strange because he had been on our old show while he was in office.

[875] But because he was now no longer president, there were certain restrictions that were suggested by his staff and certain things that I felt uncomfortable talking about because that dynamic had changed, that I felt like it just turned pointless.

[876] And I, I felt like it just turned pointless.

[877] I always felt like, gosh, I wish, gosh, that's right.

[878] I think, golly, was the word you're searching for?

[879] Dang.

[880] I wish I would do that again, because now I would be not encumbered by my own insecurities about, oh, what can I talk about with this guy and with Trump and on and on?

[881] I just turned into a nanny, I feel.

[882] And I would like to talk to him again because I think those things that I was concerned about have disappeared.

[883] Right.

[884] But everyone's different.

[885] You feel your way through it.

[886] And you talk about Hillary Clinton, a little bit the same there.

[887] what really are we free to talk about here now, as opposed to when she was in the White House with her husband?

[888] I don't know, but it's an excellent observation, and it rolls through my mind with everybody we talk to about what is the most valuable thing here we can accomplish.

[889] Yeah, and by the way, I wasn't criticizing that episode.

[890] I think you did as good as you can do.

[891] It just points out like how.

[892] There's your criticism.

[893] No, I did as well as I could do.

[894] Yeah, I was in the same position.

[895] I'm like, I'm not going to get him to give me. anything that's remotely dangerous.

[896] And that's just an interesting feeling while you're doing it.

[897] You're like, hmm, okay.

[898] Well, also must be weird for him because he's like the change guy and started his whole career as the one pushing the limits and saying things and being out there.

[899] And then now he's on the other side of that where he has to be careful.

[900] Yeah, he probably feels pretty confined by it.

[901] I think everybody sort of thought, oh, great.

[902] Well, now we're going to have cool presidents.

[903] Right.

[904] And that only lasts at eight years.

[905] But it would be so great if the United States was the country that had the cool woman or man as the president.

[906] Okay, one more question.

[907] I'm going to talk about the documentary, which I loved.

[908] One thing I was curious about, you must have observed it as someone who has listened to Stern over the years.

[909] And by the way, when you're on Stern, they're so great.

[910] They're like my favorite interviews.

[911] I think he really is the guy of our generation, certainly and perhaps beyond.

[912] I think if you're looking for a guy as somebody who's a tremendous.

[913] this interviewer.

[914] He's kind of the high water mark.

[915] I think so.

[916] Yeah.

[917] An interesting thing happened that you have certainly had to have been aware of, which is at the beginning of his query is a shock.

[918] People are probably being told to go in there.

[919] Fuck, you got to go in there.

[920] The guy's got 20 million listeners.

[921] No one wants to go.

[922] There's this battle that happens between he and the guests.

[923] And over time, his status elevates, right?

[924] And I think the financial thing really bolsters that.

[925] This whole thing evolves.

[926] And there's a transition, which is really curious for an interviewer, which is the guests now want his approval, that's a tremendous amount of leverage.

[927] And I think you see his interviews get better and better and better as he is either a peer or he is maybe even elevated above the guests.

[928] Even you are showing up wide awake for him.

[929] Could you feel that in your own career?

[930] Could you feel that you were the punk rock fuck up at 1230?

[931] And then as things evolved, people now, me, Dave, when I was in there talking to you on your show, I'm like having an out -of -body experience.

[932] That's an interesting dynamic to evolve for someone who does your job.

[933] Well, I know exactly what you're talking about with regard to Howard, and I noticed something, and maybe it's the same thing that happened for me. At a certain point, a couple of years into the CBS run, I found that people were exhibiting some kind of reverence to the experience.

[934] Yeah.

[935] And I just thought, well, this is bullshit.

[936] This is show business.

[937] This is what showbitt is all about.

[938] But it seemed to keep happening on a recurring basis.

[939] And I think that just happens with time.

[940] You know, like, by God, Pete Rose ought to be in the Hall of Fame.

[941] Everything changes in that perspective.

[942] Do you think it at all?

[943] Have you had Pete on, by the way?

[944] I haven't.

[945] You got his number?

[946] Charlie Hustle.

[947] I don't know Charlie Hustle.

[948] That's Pete Rose.

[949] Oh, that was.

[950] What?

[951] We don't know anything.

[952] No. So much for the circle of friends.

[953] Wait.

[954] I'm not coming back.

[955] We need you.

[956] We need you to teach us stuff.

[957] Pete Rose was nickname was Charlie Hustle?

[958] Oh, come on.

[959] I'm sorry.

[960] Who in this room doesn't know that?

[961] Did you guys know his nickname was Charlie Hustle?

[962] Rob?

[963] I did.

[964] Well, Rob's a, he knows.

[965] You backstabber.

[966] My God.

[967] You're getting fired and fast.

[968] I got five years with this guy.

[969] He was fired for knowing Charlie Hustle.

[970] Oh, dear.

[971] You double -crossed me like that, Rob.

[972] Here's my real, real question.

[973] It's about time.

[974] As you already know, I came on here at some point and had to say, look, I don't have 16 years of sobriety.

[975] That was a brutal fucking day.

[976] I don't want to do that.

[977] I think I'm going to lose sponsors.

[978] I think it's going to end the whole thing.

[979] But I do it.

[980] It was a lot of things.

[981] Liberating being one of them, like living with a secret and a lie, was really exhausting and time -consuming.

[982] So I admire how you handled your situation.

[983] And I don't want to go into it, but I am curious, was it harder for you to go on TV and do that?

[984] or was it harder for you to bring up to Jay -Z?

[985] That, to me, of all the episodes that you did, I was like, Dave is fearless.

[986] I applaud this.

[987] I'm so blown away that he could do that.

[988] The exchange was incredible.

[989] It's my favorite moment of that whole thing.

[990] You're being very kind, and the answer is, no, the original coverage of the episode, you just go numb from fear because I worried about my family.

[991] Everything else comes in a distant second.

[992] And my interest in this with regard to you, were you worried about placing your family at risk?

[993] I'd love to say yes, but I wasn't because, again, the illusion that it was completely controlled, didn't it all make me think anything was in jeopardy?

[994] Until you had to make it known.

[995] Well, I knew I had to come off, so I was coming off and I was detoxing like in a movie.

[996] And then I just was lying about why I was so visibly, physically fucked up.

[997] I didn't like lying to my family and my friends.

[998] I didn't have the tolerance I had for it at 29 to gaslight people I love.

[999] I used to be able to do that, and that's maybe the only thing the 16 years is righty bought me is I couldn't do it this time around.

[1000] It was brutal.

[1001] It's a relief, it's a blessing, and a delight to find yourself beyond that.

[1002] It's like, well, thank God somebody came and took the Dodge out of the garage.

[1003] Is that, that's nothing.

[1004] That doesn't mean anything.

[1005] Same, yeah, no. Was somebody come and pick up the Dodge?

[1006] Oh, boy.

[1007] You gotta get it out of the garage.

[1008] Look at the time.

[1009] Okay, okay, okay.

[1010] I love you.

[1011] Thank you for talking on that.

[1012] Okay, the U2 documentary.

[1013] Bono in the Edge, a sort of homecoming with David Letterman.

[1014] I think right out of the gates, because it's in the title sequence, there's some writing on the screen and it says we ask our old friend to come help us have this homecoming.

[1015] So right out of the gates, I was like, I guess I didn't know you were old friends with Bono in the Edge.

[1016] We went to the same grade school together.

[1017] In Dublin.

[1018] Yeah.

[1019] We played on the football team, soccer.

[1020] Oh, right.

[1021] Thanks.

[1022] And for a while, I carried their equipment to gigs.

[1023] Okay, great.

[1024] What a history.

[1025] You got with long arms and bring those gaps in.

[1026] Well, I will tell you, none of that's true, what you just read.

[1027] I have known them over the years through the show.

[1028] The whole show was their idea, and they contacted us about, we have this new collection of music that is performed written differently than released on albums and played in concerts.

[1029] We want to kind of do a show.

[1030] Them thinking of me like that is great.

[1031] I remember one time one week they were on every night, you know, and that just doesn't happen in the world of popular music, rock and roll.

[1032] So, yeah, there is that connection.

[1033] The best part about stuff like this is when you find people that are, oh, my God, and they are, oh, my God.

[1034] They're decent, nice, rock -solid human beings.

[1035] crazy smart and crazy gifted.

[1036] And you know that immediately.

[1037] The first time I spent with Bono on this project, within two minutes, he's closer to me than you are, and he's singing unembarrassedly as though you're listening to it on a tremendous recording.

[1038] And it was, oh, Jesus.

[1039] And the same with The Edge, we talked and talked for two hours.

[1040] Then he picks up a guitar and starts playing it.

[1041] And all of a sudden, you're in Wembley Stadium.

[1042] and it's, oh, Jesus, this is crazy.

[1043] The whole experience was like that.

[1044] That moment, he starts playing the opening riff of where the streets have no name for you with the 75 pedals, how he's making that noise.

[1045] I don't know.

[1046] It's insane.

[1047] It sounds like it does in front of you and not on a CD.

[1048] And it's so visceral your reaction.

[1049] Where you're witnessing something that's so completely out of what you could possibly do.

[1050] Well, that's what it was.

[1051] And these two were there for it.

[1052] And it wasn't just us three pedestrians.

[1053] It was everybody in the studio.

[1054] It was fireworks.

[1055] People say, oh, I got to go to the symphony tonight.

[1056] And I said, that's great because the music will be tremendous.

[1057] But you'll be able to see this machine build and make that music.

[1058] And that's what this experience was like.

[1059] I'm standing that close to him watching the machine make the music.

[1060] It's great.

[1061] There's two moments in it.

[1062] It's the monica being kissed on the forehead by Matt Damon, which we have a photo.

[1063] It's like she made a face that she doesn't have.

[1064] A brand new thing.

[1065] I've known you for eight years.

[1066] Who was that?

[1067] But there's a look on your face, both when he's strumming that, and then when you go with them to this great bar in Dublin, and there's maybe five people playing guitar, and there's some fiddlers playing, and people are just singing without microphones.

[1068] We've panned you, and you're by the bar, and I can see you're transcending.

[1069] You don't know you're being shot as my hunch at that point.

[1070] That was a great part of it.

[1071] I mean, the whole thing was great.

[1072] You know, I'd done stuff like this, but never at this level.

[1073] And it was delightful.

[1074] And the guy who directed at Morgan Freeman.

[1075] Oh, Morgan, they got Morgan on this?

[1076] Morgan Neville.

[1077] I'm sorry, I'm sorry, forgive me, Morgan Freeman.

[1078] Wow, this is you.

[1079] Charlie Hustle.

[1080] At a point, everybody in the pub is singing along, and I think, oh, Jesus, this is my worst nightmare.

[1081] Am I supposed to sing along?

[1082] I don't want to sing along.

[1083] They don't want me singing along.

[1084] At one point, I'm kind of pretending to sing along.

[1085] And I think, well, here I am.

[1086] It's like when I was a kid in church and you're supposed to be singing, and I could never sing then either.

[1087] Morgan Freeman.

[1088] I'm so sorry.

[1089] He's one of the best doc directors out there.

[1090] Morgan Neville.

[1091] He could be.

[1092] We don't know.

[1093] We just don't know.

[1094] I love you two.

[1095] First CD ever, Rattle and Hum, then I go backwards, 14 years old.

[1096] They're everything.

[1097] They're kind of like, I was into punk, but this is punk, but it actually sounds good.

[1098] Musicianship is amazing.

[1099] The songwriting's beautiful.

[1100] You got out of them.

[1101] It was articulated what I felt from that band, which was really cool, which is they're so fucking sincere.

[1102] You're just blown away with the sincerity.

[1103] They make their first album when they're 18.

[1104] And then what I found really interesting is that they were a part of this interesting religious order.

[1105] Isn't that bizarre?

[1106] And to a point where they had to make a choice, what are we going to do?

[1107] We're going to be rock and roll stars?

[1108] are we going to follow our religious bent in life?

[1109] And I think they've done both, really.

[1110] Yesterday, on the plane out here, I was listening to a collection of their music from the 80s to the 90s or something in the headphones.

[1111] And you hear what is being discussed, what is being sung.

[1112] Nobody's writing that particular level of lyric.

[1113] That is spiritual.

[1114] Without question, there's another influence in that music.

[1115] And yet, wildly popular.

[1116] If you listen to Christian rock, which I do sometimes in my music, Montana, that's all you can get, is Christian rock.

[1117] Okay.

[1118] And after a while, it becomes like, fine, it's Christian rock.

[1119] But there's something about that in their music that does suggest a higher power.

[1120] But what's interesting is it's not over or I wouldn't have liked it.

[1121] That's exactly right.

[1122] Whether you know it or not, it's there.

[1123] That's what I'm saying, which is why I liked it so much.

[1124] This doc, it's giving me some explanations for some things I had that I couldn't, because again, they're not over.

[1125] I wouldn't have known they're religious.

[1126] I'm smart enough to know they're from, in Dublin in the 70s, so that's a very religious place.

[1127] But the notion that the edge it sounded like in particular was really on the verge of dedicating his life to this interesting Christian order.

[1128] And they explicitly told him, you can't be musicians.

[1129] If you take that circumstance and put it anywhere in the United States in anybody's garage where anybody is starting a band, that's not going to be a conversation.

[1130] No, you're not even going to hear someone's pitch on that.

[1131] You won't be around the guy who even makes a band.

[1132] that pitch.

[1133] But out of the weight of that order, the edge comes up with Bloody Sunday.

[1134] And you're like, okay, wait, I knew that song had this power.

[1135] I could feel it.

[1136] I assumed it was just about the strife between North and South.

[1137] But then when you hear that, you go, oh, my God, it's even more rooted in like an existential crisis of calling.

[1138] Yeah.

[1139] How did they do it?

[1140] I can see, okay we got this one song wow nice going the hall of fame's going to call good night but they're all the equivalent of that in different directions of the spectrum that is the fun of watching it because you hear bloody sunday and you go right that's the song that made me love you too and you think you're kind of done and then they cue up the next song you're like oh no i loved that song and then you guys do this incredible thing where they send larry and adam on vacation and then you know just edge bono get together with the stringed orchestra.

[1141] And now the thing that got me the most of that is the cellist.

[1142] The woman playing the cello and replacing basically the drums and the bass.

[1143] Took it to this crazy level.

[1144] That, of course, will raise a question, won't it?

[1145] Which of the versions does one prefer?

[1146] Can you enjoy them both equally?

[1147] Can you appreciate one more than the other?

[1148] They're really taking a chance there by producing this.

[1149] Yeah, the other thing I really liked, and I was on a show, in the show my character, at a recording studio.

[1150] One of the episodes, Glenn Hansard came and recorded there.

[1151] So I spent a week with him on a set where you're bored and you're sitting around and you're chatting.

[1152] And I felt so attracted to that human being.

[1153] And so I just love the detour of you and Glenn spending time together.

[1154] And it seems that you were infected in the same way.

[1155] This is what I started talking about earlier.

[1156] It's all comes down to the person.

[1157] Who cares what that person is up to?

[1158] It's the person.

[1159] I'd never spent any time with.

[1160] He'd been on the show and we're on a train platform outside of Dublin freezing and Glenn shows up.

[1161] We sit down and he starts telling me he's got like a three month old baby.

[1162] And so my three month old baby is 19 and in college.

[1163] But automatically, I have this connection with him and vice versa.

[1164] And his eyes are crazy, beautiful eyes and just a fine guy.

[1165] I really enjoyed that.

[1166] That was one of many surprises in the producing of this show.

[1167] That and the fact that it was directed by Morgan Freeman.

[1168] Who knew?

[1169] That's a rare opportunity.

[1170] I'm so glad you told him.

[1171] That's something I will say to men sometimes, and I've noticed it doesn't go over well, sometimes.

[1172] But you just hit him.

[1173] But with him, you think, I'm going to say this because it may be X -ray vision.

[1174] And I want him to know that there's something going on.

[1175] I'm on to you.

[1176] Yeah.

[1177] I know you can see through me. Yeah.

[1178] You're looking at my spleen.

[1179] Stop it.

[1180] Did you watch the show?

[1181] Bad Sisters?

[1182] Did I watch that?

[1183] I'm being told I didn't watch it.

[1184] It's an incredible show about these four sisters who decide to kill one of the sisters' husbands.

[1185] It's wonderful.

[1186] It's an Irish show.

[1187] And a regular location of that show was that swim spot you went to.

[1188] Oh, the 50 foot.

[1189] Is that what it's called?

[1190] Yeah.

[1191] The 40 foot.

[1192] I'm being told it's called the 40 foot.

[1193] Okay.

[1194] Wait, this is in it's, oh, they've lost 10 feet.

[1195] It's now the 40 foot.

[1196] When you were there, was the climate change.

[1197] What was the water temperature there?

[1198] I think what was the ambitement.

[1199] be it in temperature, 46, 48, something like that.

[1200] It was cold.

[1201] Not as bad as I thought it might be.

[1202] Okay.

[1203] You previously have admitted to being a hypochondriac and you've had some heart work done.

[1204] Right.

[1205] Did it cross your mind?

[1206] Like, I'm not getting in that fucking water?

[1207] Well, I don't like this docked out.

[1208] I love Morgan Freeman, but I think, I mean, Shawshakes the best.

[1209] But not enough to die in this, in the 12 footer.

[1210] I mean, would it be wrong to say that it was Morgan Freeman?

[1211] Would that be, you know, if we just go with that?

[1212] Is it too late to do?

[1213] I think it's great.

[1214] So like two days before, we go to Dublin for the swim, I have my annual stress test because 23 years ago I had the quintuple bypass surgery.

[1215] And I was explaining to these guys, and then everything stops.

[1216] And it's like, can you wait until the summer?

[1217] Do you have to?

[1218] And I said, no, we've got to do it now.

[1219] Is this something you've always wanted to do?

[1220] Well, no, it's not, it's work.

[1221] Game therapy.

[1222] It's not a bucket list, I know.

[1223] So at the end of the checkup, they said, okay, we think you'll be all right.

[1224] Oh, God.

[1225] Oh, they gave you the.

[1226] Yeah, so they gave me their blessing.

[1227] And it was brutal.

[1228] I'd do it again.

[1229] I don't think it'll kill you.

[1230] I was happy to be done with it.

[1231] Yeah.

[1232] Okay.

[1233] You know what's like to have a three -month -old.

[1234] I will say in my own life, all that stuff I replaced, the attention, the 400 people.

[1235] I think my two kids gave me an identity I actually believed in for the very first time.

[1236] Yep.

[1237] Was that the experience for you?

[1238] One of the few universal truths that the switch is flipped.

[1239] And what occurred to me, and it's all cliches now, because you and I aren't the only two people on the planet who have had kids.

[1240] Right.

[1241] Morgan's got a bunch.

[1242] He and his wife made dinner for us one night.

[1243] They did.

[1244] Yeah, it was very nice.

[1245] And the kids were all there.

[1246] Yeah, anyway, it's what I tell people, in every important way, your life is now just beginning.

[1247] Really, that's it.

[1248] Yeah.

[1249] Okay.

[1250] Okay.

[1251] This is what I saved for the end.

[1252] Oh, you did.

[1253] Wait, can I add one more thing quickly?

[1254] I was just thinking because I started the doc too.

[1255] At first when I turned it on, I thought, man, are they not satisfied yet?

[1256] They're still pushing.

[1257] They're already the best.

[1258] They've already proven it.

[1259] They've already done it.

[1260] Are they not satisfied?

[1261] And then as I'm watching, I think, of course they're not because it is spiritual.

[1262] And it's the retirement conversation we had.

[1263] Like, why on earth are they going to not be you too?

[1264] But when you're so connected to a thing in a way that's not just like, for money.

[1265] You get it a little more.

[1266] It's like, oh, I see what.

[1267] They'll never stop.

[1268] And that I think is the same for you, probably, too.

[1269] Your work quote is spiritual.

[1270] You're connected to something much different.

[1271] What do you think about that?

[1272] Well, all of us in this room are in show business.

[1273] If Abano and the Edge and Larry and Adam were here.

[1274] Well, Rob's just out of show business because he's saying with you.

[1275] But most of us are still in show.

[1276] See it unemployment, Rob.

[1277] But the version of show business that Vano and the Edge are in is nearly out of the galaxy.

[1278] Yeah.

[1279] I believe part of the motivation for this release of music refigured, reconstructed, whatever they've done to it, rewritten it, re -performed it, is to focus on the lyrics.

[1280] I think that what they're interested now in demonstrating that in addition to being maybe the greatest stadium rock and roll band of the generation, listen out of the words.

[1281] I think that's part of it.

[1282] But the whole time that Bana was there, he's working on a one -man show.

[1283] It was just crazy.

[1284] And then, off times, he's drawing pictures of the crew and stuff, and that's crazy.

[1285] And then he's written this 600 -page book, and that's crazy.

[1286] I think that's infinite.

[1287] I think, luckily, that doesn't go away.

[1288] I mean, for me, it left when I was about 18.

[1289] You left that back in Indy.

[1290] Back in Muncie.

[1291] And Muncie, that's where it is.

[1292] Okay.

[1293] So once you announced you were going to retire, you had a year of doing the show where people, when they were on, they pretty much knew this was going to be it.

[1294] I mean, the level of discomfort you experienced while people told you how much you meant to them was obvious.

[1295] I can tell that's really not your favorite thing to receive.

[1296] Ironically, right, we just want validation and approval.

[1297] And then when it comes, it's painful for some reason.

[1298] So I didn't say any this until the end, but we're at the end.

[1299] You're the first thing I started watching that I became obsessed with, you know, probably 11 years old.

[1300] I had zero dreams of being in show business.

[1301] I didn't want to be a comedian or anything, but I would practice being interviewed.

[1302] by you in the mirror all through my teens.

[1303] I would just think about what it would be like to get interviewed by you.

[1304] And the reason is you were a reverent.

[1305] You weren't a jock, but women liked you.

[1306] You were sarcastic, but you weirdly stood up for things that you valued.

[1307] You were incredibly brave, but not machismo.

[1308] You really gave so many of us permission to like who we were, identified with you.

[1309] I was like, oh my God, maybe through being smart and thoughtful.

[1310] I can have value and be loved.

[1311] And it was so encouraging.

[1312] And I dreamt about being on your show my whole life.

[1313] I was on your show.

[1314] I've been in show business for 20 years.

[1315] It was the best moment of my whole experience.

[1316] I know you hate that.

[1317] That was it for me. Sitting there, staring at your real face, you were kind to me. I could tell you kind of liked me. And I know when you like people and you don't, it felt so incredible that when I look back on it, that's the moment for me. And I just need to say to you, in my wildest dreams, I never thought you'd then come to my house and let me interview you.

[1318] And this will be with me in my heart forever.

[1319] And I just want to thank you.

[1320] Well, Monica, don't you have something to add?

[1321] You know, I got the research yesterday and I was like, okay, this is interesting.

[1322] This guy's in comedy.

[1323] No. It's a dream.

[1324] It's a dream come true.

[1325] That's very sweet.

[1326] And it's meaningful because connected to your childhood, that's pretty powerful.

[1327] And why it's meaningful to me is because we've been here in this room for, geez, it seemed like six, seven hours.

[1328] But I kind of feel pretty strongly about this experience.

[1329] And so to have you say that to me now is very nice.

[1330] Thank you.

[1331] Yeah, I know it hurts, but I just wanted to say.

[1332] You know, it doesn't hurt.

[1333] Something about the hospitality and the fun that I've enjoyed here makes it palatable and believable.

[1334] Was it as good as that dinner with Morgan Freeman?

[1335] Well, thank you, Dex.

[1336] And thank you, Monica.

[1337] Thank you.

[1338] What a treat.

[1339] Rob's going with you, by the way.

[1340] He's now your employee.

[1341] All right, well, good look with everything.

[1342] I really want people to check out on Disney Plus.

[1343] Well, do you think they're going to watch?

[1344] They look for the littlest mermaid, isn't it?

[1345] Or the Little Mermaid or the Little Mermaid or whatever it is.

[1346] Isn't that what they're watching on Disney Plus?

[1347] Hey, that's a great idea.

[1348] I don't know if it's too late to add to the title.

[1349] Little Bono and the Edge Mermaid, sort of home.

[1350] coming with David.

[1351] Palpatrol.

[1352] Allederman.

[1353] All letterman.

[1354] Maybe that could get some overlap.

[1355] So the bear guy.

[1356] Did Timothy Treadwell come up on that show?

[1357] I think maybe.

[1358] Maybe you brought him up from the sidelines.

[1359] Okay, I'm obsessed with Timothy Treadwell.

[1360] Can I just say one thing?

[1361] I went and saw that dock with my then girlfriend.

[1362] And I promised she was the most clairvoyant I've ever been.

[1363] Six minutes into that dock, I turned to her and I said, this guy's got some addiction in the background.

[1364] Wow.

[1365] And then about nine minutes later, I go, I think he's got some show business in the background.

[1366] My God, both of those things were true.

[1367] Yeah, exactly.

[1368] And you and I are a millimeter away from being Timothy Treadwell.

[1369] Can I tell you that?

[1370] I mean, truly.

[1371] Perhaps.

[1372] Yeah.

[1373] We don't have the skill set, the natural, whatever, in the right place, the right time.

[1374] There's not a ton of difference.

[1375] Yeah.

[1376] Could go either way.

[1377] Also, when he would be on the show, we knew it was just a matter of time before he would be eaten alive.

[1378] Yes.

[1379] Well, they say, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[1380] is you can only play checkers with bears so many times before the year.

[1381] And he nicely, I guess, one of the bears, maybe the one that ate him, named that bear, Dave.

[1382] I don't know if the one that killed him.

[1383] And he sent me a picture, this is your bear, Dave, Dave, and I have it framed it.

[1384] You're exactly right.

[1385] I'm going to sleep in the crosswalk.

[1386] How long before I get run over by a bus.

[1387] It's a very specific type of person who's doing that.

[1388] Yeah.

[1389] Do you get a bunch of bears?

[1390] In your yard?

[1391] I wouldn't say a bunch, but we do get them, and it's a big, big deal when you get a grizzly on the property.

[1392] And they're probably all kind of known and marked there.

[1393] Like, when you get one, can you go, oh, that's 826 or something?

[1394] Well, I don't know about that.

[1395] I don't think they're tagged necessarily unless they've gotten themselves in trouble.

[1396] And the reason they get in trouble is humans.

[1397] You know, they're not like gang members.

[1398] Right.

[1399] There's no MS -13 grizzlies.

[1400] You learned that on the bear episode because we definitely talked about that.

[1401] I caught you.

[1402] Exactly.

[1403] Oh, my God.

[1404] He's claiming to hate that.

[1405] yet he's quoting it.

[1406] I know.

[1407] And he's also not giving credit.

[1408] Exactly.

[1409] Wait for a letter from David Ferry's attorney coming soon.

[1410] Rob will deliver it to you when he takes up employment with you up in Montana.

[1411] I can't wait to see Rob somehow designated to deal with the bears.

[1412] Thank you so much.

[1413] Well, no, thank you.

[1414] This was a lovely thing to be able to do today.

[1415] And really wasn't quite sure what this would be.

[1416] And it's been a delight.

[1417] And thank you, Monica.

[1418] Thank you very much.

[1419] Thanks, Dave.

[1420] Anytime we can do it again.

[1421] I'm around.

[1422] Okay.

[1423] Thank you.

[1424] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1425] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1426] What caused your delay?

[1427] We both had delays today.

[1428] We did.

[1429] Mine was poor planning.

[1430] Okay.

[1431] I edited this morning and I had therapy.

[1432] Oh, my gosh.

[1433] I thought I had enough time to get this all done and shower.

[1434] That's a lot.

[1435] You had to wake up at seven.

[1436] Right.

[1437] I woke up at 7 .30, but then I, um, snooze twice.

[1438] Till 8 .15?

[1439] No, 7 .50.

[1440] Oh, okay.

[1441] Just a little 20 minutes snoozy.

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] Uh -huh.

[1444] My shower took longer because I decided to wash my hair.

[1445] Oh, okay.

[1446] Because I was stinky.

[1447] Okay.

[1448] Hadn't washed my hair since Austin.

[1449] Since August.

[1450] Pretty much.

[1451] And I had crazy night sweats.

[1452] Oh, you did?

[1453] Yes.

[1454] Because of your flies.

[1455] Because I'm perimenopause.

[1456] Oh, geez.

[1457] Now you're, everyone's perimenopal.

[1458] No, I'm not.

[1459] I really hope I'm not.

[1460] That would be bad for me as someone who still hopes to have children.

[1461] I don't think you're perimenopausal at 35.

[1462] My period is coming.

[1463] It's halfway here.

[1464] Right.

[1465] So do you think that's what it was about?

[1466] Yeah, that's what happens sometimes to me. I haven't had it in a bit, but it was damp.

[1467] Wow.

[1468] Went through the sheets.

[1469] Have you throw out the mattress?

[1470] Ladies coming.

[1471] CEO's en route.

[1472] Yeah, she's going to fix it.

[1473] Okay, it's going to make it go away.

[1474] Fixes all my problems.

[1475] Yeah.

[1476] As a good CEO does.

[1477] Makes problems disappear.

[1478] Uh -huh.

[1479] A fixer.

[1480] A fixer.

[1481] Well, I was a little late for a different reason.

[1482] I, too, was editing.

[1483] I was up here editing early 8 .30.

[1484] Mm -hmm.

[1485] And then I had to do a walk -through of the garage with Brian, my handsome builder.

[1486] Oh, he's a handsome.

[1487] Oh, he's very good looking.

[1488] Oh.

[1489] Yeah.

[1490] He was friends with Dave Castillo.

[1491] before I met him as a contractor.

[1492] And then I found out we both like Castillo.

[1493] So that pretty much seals the, Castile's the deal.

[1494] Castillo, also known as.

[1495] God, bod.

[1496] That's right.

[1497] Yeah, Stumpman extraordinaire from Chips.

[1498] Where are you going?

[1499] You going somewhere?

[1500] Yeah, bye.

[1501] Okay.

[1502] See ya.

[1503] Oh, elegant teapot.

[1504] Rob, how are you doing today?

[1505] Good.

[1506] Yeah.

[1507] A little tired.

[1508] Yeah.

[1509] I think everyone's a little tired, right?

[1510] This is blackout.

[1511] Yeah.

[1512] The rain's not helping.

[1513] Okay, so the reason I was a little, oh, so I was editing, then I went down to do a little walkthrough with Brian, and it's been, you know, pouring rain.

[1514] So the whole second floor is just soaking wet plywood.

[1515] Of your new thing.

[1516] Yes, of the garage and building.

[1517] Right, the garage and building.

[1518] I don't want people to think your house is flooding.

[1519] No, the house is not flooded.

[1520] It's watertight so far.

[1521] You know, we're discussing where lighting would go in the ceiling.

[1522] Yeah.

[1523] So we're like, we're all looking up at the ceiling.

[1524] I'm running my hands back and forth.

[1525] I think it should be on this line, equal distance between this.

[1526] And I'm walking backwards as I'm doing this.

[1527] And I've not noted that there is a stack of plywood in the dead center of what will be the gym, having mold paradise, whatever the upgrade is.

[1528] You're not going to have any mold.

[1529] Yeah.

[1530] Might have to transfer some from the old garage.

[1531] So a stack of plywood probably nine inches high that I'm not aware of.

[1532] As I walk backwards looking up at the ceiling, I hit it.

[1533] So I'm going down, right?

[1534] Mm -hmm.

[1535] But I have this miraculous recovery.

[1536] I somehow leap onto the pile of plywood.

[1537] Yeah.

[1538] I'm also holding my dip cup, right?

[1539] My, my, my, my, my, my, my spatoon, yeah.

[1540] It's a nice, you know, you can hear it.

[1541] Fully.

[1542] It's a nice aluminum bottle.

[1543] And so I got that in my hand and I do my big recovery.

[1544] And now they're, Brian, the electrician.

[1545] No one tried to grab you?

[1546] No, it's too far away.

[1547] Also, I wouldn't have wanted that.

[1548] I know.

[1549] And they knew better.

[1550] I wouldn't grab Brian.

[1551] Brian wouldn't grab me. You guys.

[1552] You fall down like a man and I get up.

[1553] Be a man. Fall down hard.

[1554] Don't let your friends help you.

[1555] Be a man. So this recovery is pretty spectacular.

[1556] I mean, everyone thinks I'm going.

[1557] I think I'm going down.

[1558] Yeah.

[1559] And then right as I get it under control, I know step backwards off the nine -inch platform.

[1560] It was so slick.

[1561] I can't believe how slippery it was.

[1562] And then I just went out like a banana peel.

[1563] Pratt fall, kept the spittoon vertical.

[1564] No spilet, nothing, no issues there.

[1565] But I did.

[1566] Thank God.

[1567] Thank God you saved that spit.

[1568] Yeah.

[1569] Well, just thank God wasn't all over my hair.

[1570] Oh, yeah.

[1571] Yeah.

[1572] I know.

[1573] Listen, so that's not what this is about.

[1574] You're trying to punish me about my chewing.

[1575] This is about a very big fall I have.

[1576] Listen, it's not punishing if it's just what your life is.

[1577] You chose this.

[1578] You chose this life.

[1579] Listen to me, I hit the deck.

[1580] There's sawdust everywhere.

[1581] Anyways, and I'm wearing a onesie, a very absorbent onesie.

[1582] Which one was it?

[1583] My more sleepy -looking one, like playful one.

[1584] Your sleep sack.

[1585] My sleep sack.

[1586] Yeah, I was wearing my sleep sack.

[1587] And so that just wicked up all the moisture.

[1588] So I was soaking wet with sawdust all over myself.

[1589] But the Spatoon did stay nice and vertical.

[1590] So there's a little victory.

[1591] But anyways, then I had to go get changed.

[1592] Yeah.

[1593] And what hurts?

[1594] Nothing.

[1595] Everything feels good.

[1596] Really?

[1597] Yeah.

[1598] Did you just land on your bottom?

[1599] My right hip and my right arm elbow.

[1600] That sounds like that hurts.

[1601] It was really fine.

[1602] It was nice.

[1603] Don't say it was nice.

[1604] It was.

[1605] That's like as good as it could go.

[1606] I should have hurt something.

[1607] Yeah.

[1608] I went from standing 6 -3 to 0 -0.

[1609] Like, ow, even that hurt.

[1610] I just did.

[1611] When you bumped into the couch with your elbow.

[1612] Yeah.

[1613] Okay.

[1614] Well, and then.

[1615] And then I'm really grateful you didn't fall because I think it would have really hurt you.

[1616] But anyways.

[1617] I would have cried for sure.

[1618] If all those people were there, were you embarrassed?

[1619] I wasn't because it was funny.

[1620] The fact that it looked like I had recovered.

[1621] Yeah.

[1622] And so I immediately start laughing as I do.

[1623] And I go, oh, my God, really thought I had saved it.

[1624] And Brian's like, oh, my God, I really thought you had it too.

[1625] Yeah.

[1626] Like, we're all kind of just astounded how, like, this crazy recovery had happened.

[1627] And then out of nowhere banana peel Pratt fall.

[1628] Yeah.

[1629] soiled onesie sleeper sleep sack yeah anyways the only thing i think is like oh god i hope he doesn't feel bad for me because i don't feel bad yeah there's i think there's layer different masculine dynamics that happen that you have that you don't feel or experience okay like what well just like there's a lot of woman to woman stuff i'm gonna miss out on i'm not gonna i'm not gonna my cycle synced i'm not gonna have you know, there's going to be like some emotional things.

[1630] I really probably won't be able to experience the way too good girlfriends can.

[1631] Yeah.

[1632] Oh, it was Callie's birthday yesterday.

[1633] Shout out ding, ding, dig.

[1634] Oh, yes, yes.

[1635] You know, and this is insane.

[1636] I bet there's an evolutionary basis.

[1637] What is a popular saying, which is insane, is men's worst fear is being humiliated or embarrassed.

[1638] Exactly.

[1639] And a woman's worst fear is being killed by a man. Yeah, I think that's Margaret Atwood.

[1640] Okay.

[1641] Good job, Atwood.

[1642] So there's a major truth of that.

[1643] I would be curious because I think that just chocks up men to being vain in a way that I think is a very incomplete explanation of that.

[1644] I think there's probably something more about whatever that hunting circle was all about and embarrassing yourself there had to be a life or death.

[1645] I don't know.

[1646] Point is it's real.

[1647] Men get very nervous when another man has embarrassed himself in front of them.

[1648] I think it's a very unique feeling.

[1649] I don't think that's just men.

[1650] I think that there's some, like, kind of weird mirror neuron thing that happens when people are around embarrassment.

[1651] There's that, for sure.

[1652] But there is a gender layer that's happening.

[1653] Okay.

[1654] And I think because it's acknowledged whether you could articulate it or not that an embarrassed man is very dangerous.

[1655] Because they're clumsy?

[1656] Well, no, because we just established man's worst fear is being embarrassed.

[1657] Right.

[1658] So we know that when that happens to a man, when he's embarrassed, that potentially there's something crazy is coming next or something.

[1659] Because they're in defense mode or something?

[1660] Yeah.

[1661] Or just if we're agreeing that their biggest fear is this, when you witness someone experience their biggest fear, I think there's a bizarre panic among all the other dudes.

[1662] Like, oh, God, is he going to be embarrassed?

[1663] Is he going to, what you want is for him to get up and laugh at himself?

[1664] Right.

[1665] In any group of boys, when someone tries something and they fuck up, if he gets up and he's angry, everyone, I think, has like an instinctual reaction to just kind of look down and ignore what happened.

[1666] You're like, okay, I don't want to accentuate this by acknowledging I witness this because he's mad and embarrassed.

[1667] Yeah.

[1668] When I see a woman fall down, that's not the sensation.

[1669] The sensation is like, oh, I want to nurture her or help her or offer some help.

[1670] And when a man falls down, it's like, first thought is like, okay, how?

[1671] how's he going to take this so I know what to do is that what I'm saying Rob yeah that checks out I think it's when you when you witness a woman a woman doing something embarrassing it's different yeah to a guy than than a man doing something yeah yeah it's maybe easier to have empathy for a man you put yourself in his shoes a little easier or imagine if that had happened to you yeah you can feel what their embarrassment feels like I think you may be easier I don't know something I just think something's interesting about it.

[1672] I don't know what it is.

[1673] Yeah.

[1674] Maybe there's a social scientist out there who's done some work on this and can DM me. I think for women, it's across the board the same.

[1675] It just depends on your personality.

[1676] It's like if you're around anyone who slips and falls and then is embarrassed and needs nurturing, you're going to provide it.

[1677] If they need to be ignored, you're also going to do that.

[1678] But it doesn't, like if I was around you, if I I was there and you fell.

[1679] Yeah.

[1680] I wouldn't be like, oh, I can't pay a tent.

[1681] Like, I'd be like, oh, my God, are you okay?

[1682] Right.

[1683] That's actually my exact point is that I think you are free as a woman to do that immediately with me. But if it's that you will act dangerous, you'd still be dangerous around me. Yeah.

[1684] I think that just the, I think you just illustrated exactly what I'm saying.

[1685] You would have no barrier to just be nurturing to me immediately.

[1686] Mm -hmm.

[1687] And I, then there's no barrier for me to be nurturing to a woman.

[1688] who falls right with a man i i instinctively know let's see how this plays out for a second before i pick my thing the stakes are hot but let's take delta yeah if she does something uh -huh you're gonna take a second to see what she needs you're not gonna immediately run over because she might say she might be angry that's very true so i it's it's kind of maybe just men are more angry you need You have to be careful.

[1689] Well, no, I just, I think it's, it's interesting.

[1690] We agree on that statement.

[1691] We agreed on multiple statements.

[1692] Yeah, we agree on that a man's worst fear is embarrassment.

[1693] Yes.

[1694] That's not women's worst fear.

[1695] Depend.

[1696] This is where we are like painting with such a broad brush.

[1697] But you're saying, yeah, that's what I. Yeah.

[1698] You're saying historically or maybe like evolutionarily.

[1699] Yeah.

[1700] I just think if we agree on the fact that that that's man's worst fear, it's, it's, It creates a different dynamic when you're witnessing someone experience their worst fear.

[1701] Just like if you're witnessing a woman get killed, which is her worst fear, you know, that's, those are different things.

[1702] Right.

[1703] I'm not doing a good job explaining what I'm saying.

[1704] Anyway.

[1705] Onward and upward.

[1706] All right.

[1707] Well, this is for Letterman.

[1708] So that's exciting.

[1709] This was the best day of your life or the best day in this attic for you, probably.

[1710] it was my favorite probably two hours in the attic yeah with a guest yeah oh it's very very special yeah tell us and i had done a lot of work leading up to that day yeah starting a week before i mean we know that day is coming for three weeks so it's in the back of my mind as it approaches i'm both excited but also it's the for me the super bowl it's like this is the one crack i get at this experience interviewing him, my hero.

[1711] Yeah.

[1712] So it's looming on Friday before for the first time ever.

[1713] I don't know why this hasn't occurred to me. I don't, I've never talked about work in therapy.

[1714] Like, I don't bring work -related thoughts too often.

[1715] They're mostly just all my interpersonal issues.

[1716] Now, they may involve people at work.

[1717] But just I've never been like, I have a big proposal coming up and it gives me anxiety and I don't know what to do.

[1718] So this was my first experience with it.

[1719] And I was very, very grateful I did that because he gave me lots of wonderful perspective.

[1720] But I really just had the singular goal of going in and not trying to impress him that I'm smart or great at this or anything.

[1721] I just was hoping to just exist with him and have a conversation with him without any agenda to get his approval.

[1722] Yeah.

[1723] Which takes a lot of work for me embarrassingly.

[1724] I can't.

[1725] That's not my natural disposition.

[1726] Right.

[1727] Yeah.

[1728] I think you achieved it.

[1729] Well, do you?

[1730] Yeah, I felt very calm the whole time.

[1731] And that thing I had brought up to him in the interview, which is like, do you find you have a different interviewing style with men and women was this thing that had occurred to me?

[1732] And so really, I went in with the goal of that interviewing them as if he was a woman.

[1733] And I feel like I got close to that.

[1734] Yeah.

[1735] In my heart.

[1736] And then after were you on Cloud 9?

[1737] How is the rest of the day?

[1738] No one will like this.

[1739] Okay.

[1740] But I'm going to choose to be honest.

[1741] Do it.

[1742] It fucked me up.

[1743] It, like, for the eight hours afterward, it really fucked me up.

[1744] In that, I had tried really hard.

[1745] I had prepared, like, emotionally prepared for a week to do it.

[1746] I did it.

[1747] It was everything I'd hoped it'd be.

[1748] So I guess I'd use the Stutz thing.

[1749] The photograph was a dangerous thing.

[1750] It was like, once.

[1751] that happened and he left and I felt relieved, I was like, where's the elation?

[1752] What's next?

[1753] What reward do I deserve?

[1754] Yeah.

[1755] How do I celebrate?

[1756] The addict in me was like, okay, but where's the euphoria?

[1757] Where's the elevated?

[1758] And there isn't.

[1759] Like, you do a good job and that's that.

[1760] And that's great.

[1761] I mean, it felt to me like right after you, it seemed.

[1762] like you were.

[1763] Yeah, I just...

[1764] You just want that sustained.

[1765] Yeah, I ended up sharing about it immediately in a meeting, which is it just starts the monkey brain.

[1766] It's like, okay, I'm not doing so bad.

[1767] That's great.

[1768] I did the thing.

[1769] What do I get?

[1770] What can I do?

[1771] What can I do?

[1772] What can I eat?

[1773] What sensation can I give myself to punctuate this, to make it official?

[1774] Totally.

[1775] Go out and cheers glasses and get drunk.

[1776] like that.

[1777] I have so much muscle memory of that.

[1778] Yeah.

[1779] And in early sobriety, what I would do, because I think people do need to celebrate to get, to process it somehow, right?

[1780] I think that's why people celebrate.

[1781] So in the old days, when I would sell a screenplay, right?

[1782] That would be a big event for me. I'd pitch all these studios.

[1783] And if I sold one, I would go, oh, I'm allowed to eat like two whole pizzas tonight.

[1784] So I would celebrate by having a food orgy.

[1785] Right.

[1786] But even that's off the table now.

[1787] I can't.

[1788] My celebration can't be two whole pizzas and then I fucking my bones hurt for five days and my skin peels off.

[1789] So I'm down to really.

[1790] Just the moment.

[1791] Yes.

[1792] And that's what I'm saying.

[1793] It's embarrassing to admit that.

[1794] That I am a machine of more, more, more, more, more.

[1795] I'm a greedy little pig of, yeah.

[1796] Yeah.

[1797] Like people will say in AA, which I like is my drug of choice is more.

[1798] Yeah, for sure.

[1799] And my drug of choice is definitely more.

[1800] Yeah.

[1801] I think it's a scale, though, for sure, because, which is sort of a ding, ding, ding on this episode, we talk about that a little bit, but because everyone has that.

[1802] I mean, maybe not everyone, but everyone lands on the scale for that.

[1803] I do think for addicts, it's on the extreme end, wanting to prolong that feeling forever and, like, live in it and feel good about yourself for a long time.

[1804] And how do we get there?

[1805] And, but, but most people, even I had that, I was like, oh, like, what a great day.

[1806] Like, now, now what?

[1807] Yeah.

[1808] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1809] I mean, I went and bought makeup that day.

[1810] Yeah, which was great.

[1811] Yeah, I mean, and pants.

[1812] And a carton.

[1813] And some other stuff.

[1814] And a bracelet.

[1815] No, but like, I have that exact thing.

[1816] And I'm like, how is the rest of the day going to match this part of the day that was so good?

[1817] Yeah.

[1818] And to be honest, part of my mental trick to be calm was that I really wasn't allowing myself to indulge in the notion that it was Letterman sitting here.

[1819] Yeah.

[1820] That would have ruined the whole.

[1821] That's actually what would have taken me off course.

[1822] Yeah.

[1823] Like my therapist was just like in the simplest way.

[1824] He said, imagine how different the dynamic would be if you and I switched chairs right now.

[1825] If you sat in the doctor's chair.

[1826] Okay.

[1827] And I sat in that chair.

[1828] Yeah.

[1829] And when I think of that, that's really dramatic.

[1830] The whole thing unravels a little bit.

[1831] Oh.

[1832] Like the doctor, the relationships established.

[1833] I'm coming to you.

[1834] Yeah.

[1835] You're, quote, the expert.

[1836] Yes.

[1837] And I trust you and you're going to guide me. Right.

[1838] And that's what that chair says.

[1839] Mm -hmm.

[1840] And he said, you don't need to be in a hurry and you don't need to panic because you're sitting in the chair.

[1841] Right.

[1842] Right.

[1843] Remember what chair you're sitting in.

[1844] Yeah.

[1845] Yeah, that's great.

[1846] Which was a really cool, helpful mantra, which is like, I don't.

[1847] Yeah.

[1848] The chair is doing all the work.

[1849] I don't have to control it.

[1850] I don't have to steer it.

[1851] Yeah.

[1852] I think that's great.

[1853] So my mental exercises leading up to it were to not go, oh, Dave Lerman's coming.

[1854] David Lerman's coming.

[1855] It's the opposite.

[1856] It's like, a guest is coming and I sit in that chair.

[1857] And I do this thing that I do four days a week.

[1858] Now I can do it.

[1859] And so I actually didn't experience it while we were doing it because I don't think it would have worked if I was allowing myself to truly.

[1860] So then it's over.

[1861] And now I want to experience the thing that I purposely avoided so that I wasn't a fucking goof.

[1862] Right.

[1863] In a nutshell, it just, what it led to is like eight hours of craving, which is not what I was expecting.

[1864] Interesting.

[1865] It's not like I expect to like, you know, execute a plan I've been working really hard at.

[1866] it goes as planned.

[1867] And then all of a sudden I'm like in a spiral of craving.

[1868] You know, look, I shared about it in a meeting that night.

[1869] I went to sleep.

[1870] I woke up and the next day it was completely fine.

[1871] But it was a curious outcome to the whole thing.

[1872] Yeah.

[1873] I bet a lot of, that's very relatable.

[1874] I don't think it's crazy uncommon.

[1875] Yeah.

[1876] It's almost what Jenna Ortego was saying.

[1877] It's like, yes, the fantasy is look at all this opportunity I have and how good I'm doing.

[1878] Everyone's so excited for me. But I can't really match that excited.

[1879] I'm not experiencing that.

[1880] excitement.

[1881] Right.

[1882] You know, you have dreams and you pursue them.

[1883] And of course, in your mind, you think on the backside of accomplishing a dream is elation.

[1884] You know, like, I have this notion of the guy getting the gold medal and crying, you know, that's like.

[1885] Yeah.

[1886] But in my life, I haven't experienced hitting my goals with that kind of metal ceremony experience, which is totally fine.

[1887] It's a slow role.

[1888] So now like, I'm letting little threads come in And it is a lovely thing now in my head I think it's just a misunderstanding There is no elation Even the person getting the gold medal The crying the moment is about The intensity of this process being over And that you want I mean winning of course feels good But there's a relief in there too There's so much happening in that moment It's not a pure elation Right So when you won the state championship?

[1889] Yeah, of course, that's what I'm thinking of.

[1890] You weren't elated.

[1891] When I, like, broke down in a way that I've never behaved since or after, it was not of happiness.

[1892] It was relief.

[1893] Yeah, all the tension you were carrying to perform.

[1894] Yes.

[1895] Now that moment's gone and it happened the way I wanted it to happen and I can, like, breathe normally now.

[1896] Yeah.

[1897] So it is not happiness necessarily that's achieved.

[1898] There's a biological component to this, which is interesting, which is dopamine is predominantly the chemical that gives us that sense of elation.

[1899] And dopamine's released when basically the unexpected happens.

[1900] Right, exactly.

[1901] It's like telling you to venture to look for new berries because they're gone where you're at and you venture out.

[1902] And then when you see the new berries, it's unexpected and you get the dopamine hit.

[1903] Yeah.

[1904] So that's what's weird about fantasies is you actually, enter them with an expectation.

[1905] Like my happiest moments in life are generally like, I go to stop by someone's house.

[1906] I was just going to pick something up.

[1907] We start chatting.

[1908] It's this great chat.

[1909] We're shooting baskets and that becomes really fun.

[1910] It's actually like when my expectations are nothing fun is going to happen.

[1911] Then all of a sudden I'm having a lot of fun.

[1912] Yeah.

[1913] And then I just think coupled with that studs thing.

[1914] It's just like you make these little photographs in your head of what, you know, perfect anything would be.

[1915] Yeah.

[1916] And then there's no life in the photograph.

[1917] There's no movement.

[1918] there's it's just yeah yeah well that that's interesting i do think so i just want to be clear not sad just it was an interesting yeah unexpected eight hours of craving yeah that makes sense yeah it's a good reminder well i mean a lot of people have they have crashes after big events because yeah you're like on a high uh -huh and then you crash so um then you crash right on the plywood oh another fun thing Some of my favorite moments were out of the attic, which is we went and looked at my cars for a minute.

[1919] Okay.

[1920] Because Dave has that crazy Volvo with a Mustang V8 in it that Paul Newman made him by.

[1921] And so I, too, have a stupid station wagon with an outrageous engine in it.

[1922] And so we went over and looked at the Roadmaster for a little while.

[1923] Nice.

[1924] And he was vibing it big time.

[1925] Cool.

[1926] Yeah, I liked that part.

[1927] That's exciting.

[1928] One thing in the beginning of the episode, it's a little muffled, but they tell a story about they just come from the grove to get shoes and Craig Ferguson was at the grove.

[1929] You kind of can't hear the Craig Ferguson.

[1930] You can hear something, but I don't know if you can make it out that well, so just wanted to reiterate that he was also at the grove at the same time.

[1931] So funny.

[1932] And my joke was, what if Kimmel had rung them up?

[1933] Yes, exactly.

[1934] For me, the experience was really cool.

[1935] It's always, when we get to have legends in here, it's very special.

[1936] And he, you know, he'll always be regarded as a comedy god.

[1937] So there's just immediate reverence.

[1938] But I didn't grow up watching him every night.

[1939] But when he was sitting here, I was like, oh my God, he's so funny.

[1940] He's so funny.

[1941] he's so funny.

[1942] He's like the biggest comedy guy of all time.

[1943] But for some reason, of course, I don't associate that, which is so stupid of me. He's just so fast and quick and connected.

[1944] And there's just no question.

[1945] It's like, of course.

[1946] Of course he's the guy.

[1947] Yeah.

[1948] But you know, you're 12 years younger than me. It was is a significant piece of that whole like you missed.

[1949] That's what I mean.

[1950] Yeah.

[1951] Like, I think it's very nice.

[1952] that that for you, you start becoming aware of him.

[1953] He's already 60 years old and he's already on his 20th year of television.

[1954] And, you know, for me, it was seeing him in the late show, starting at 1230 after Carson.

[1955] Right.

[1956] Doing what basically Tim and Eric do on TV now.

[1957] Like completely different take on a late night talk show and very progressive and alternative in punk rock.

[1958] Yeah.

[1959] And he changed the game totally and then I think like Stern as the success built and he took over the 1130s time slot either he started playing it safer or just he had already paved the new way and now he was you know but you didn't enter at the time where it was like a new band on the scene yes yes but he's so good and And it made total sense just being around him like, oh, you're so special.

[1960] Right.

[1961] I'm sure you could feel the quality of his comedy in person.

[1962] Yeah.

[1963] That is so absolutely fingerprint David Letterman.

[1964] Yeah.

[1965] And he's so cool.

[1966] So cool.

[1967] That's a like late night thing.

[1968] Because I think the same thing happened with me with Jimmy Fallon where like I realize how funny he was when he came on here and how quick he was.

[1969] I feel like Letterman, especially now.

[1970] like on his Netflix show, it feels serious in a lot of ways.

[1971] So I haven't seen this thing.

[1972] He's intrinsically offbeat like Bill Murray, like the talking heads.

[1973] Like.

[1974] It feels different.

[1975] Like, I guess that's all I can.

[1976] Like it, because I obviously love, love Jimmy.

[1977] I love.

[1978] Oh, he's amazing.

[1979] These guys are amazing who are doing it now.

[1980] but it felt it's like oh wait no this is a different beast he just existing yeah is unique and interesting yeah and you kind of want to be looking through his eyes to see what he's yeah even though like before he went in and relieved all the workers for the day the way he's he got out of the car and he just like really took in his surroundings in this really specific uh thoughtful way yeah Speaking of pacing, I think that he is so, he's so quick, but it feels like there's no rush.

[1981] There's no like, I got to make a joke now.

[1982] It's just very natural.

[1983] Very, very cool.

[1984] Okay.

[1985] So the book on the Wright brothers, there's a few.

[1986] I mean, it definitely isn't the McCullough one, as we noted.

[1987] There's one by Fred C. Kelly.

[1988] And then there's one by James Toby.

[1989] Did he give us the title?

[1990] No, he just said there's like this book, the definitive book on the Wright brothers.

[1991] He said maybe Fred Winston, but there's no Fred Winston.

[1992] Okay.

[1993] Morgan Freeman?

[1994] My guess it's the James Tobin one.

[1995] Okay.

[1996] If not, big, I just gave a big shout out to James Tobin.

[1997] You know some stuff we didn't talk about that I liked.

[1998] There's so much we could have talked about with him, but pretty terrible student.

[1999] Oh.

[2000] Which I like.

[2001] Interesting.

[2002] Yeah.

[2003] He was not a good student.

[2004] In fact, he went to school in Muncie, Indiana.

[2005] I think that's Indiana State.

[2006] And he set up an endowment for C students.

[2007] He did.

[2008] He's like, you know, no one's getting a scholarship for having C's.

[2009] Look at me. I had all Cs.

[2010] Wow.

[2011] I could have used some money.

[2012] Yeah.

[2013] So he had an endowment for like high school students going.

[2014] Students.

[2015] Yeah.

[2016] Wow.

[2017] That's great.

[2018] That's kind of great.

[2019] I love it.

[2020] Everyone's like.

[2021] Like, you know, everyone wants to take care of the A student.

[2022] I was like, what about the C student?

[2023] Okay.

[2024] There's also a reason.

[2025] Well, there's lots of reasons.

[2026] Could be a learning disability.

[2027] He's clearly brilliant and he's clearly got a ton of work ethic.

[2028] No, no. I'm saying there's a reason people invest in the A student because the A student is showing that they care.

[2029] Yes.

[2030] They're there.

[2031] So to then reward not caring feels a little, but then there's so many factors.

[2032] Right.

[2033] So yes, I totally agree.

[2034] Yeah.

[2035] I mean, I think it's just funny.

[2036] I think it's part of our capitalist architecture of our brain.

[2037] Which is like, I think we would go, everyone probably deserves help.

[2038] Yeah.

[2039] Right?

[2040] I agree.

[2041] I mean, then we would agree that like, yeah, anyone who needs help that could get it, we would probably be supportive of that.

[2042] Yes.

[2043] But then, of course, we triage it and we prioritize.

[2044] Yeah, it just funnels into who's an overachiever.

[2045] They should get.

[2046] Wow.

[2047] Yeah.

[2048] Wow.

[2049] Wow.

[2050] He's also very charming, right?

[2051] So charming.

[2052] So charming.

[2053] That's that other thing he and Bill Murray have is like they're not making sexiest people's sexiest person alive.

[2054] But I think anyone around them would just be so attracted to them.

[2055] It would be uncanny.

[2056] Yeah.

[2057] I mean, you want his approval immediately.

[2058] And he's just so playful.

[2059] Yeah.

[2060] And he's very connected.

[2061] Like, he looks at you.

[2062] He addresses you.

[2063] Oh, we got to tell David about he accidentally listened to the bear episode.

[2064] Oh, my God.

[2065] And thought we had a bear expert on and it was this Kiwi.

[2066] Oh, so funny.

[2067] Oh, my God.

[2068] Anyway, a very special day.

[2069] One more behind the scenes thing that helped me tremendously is when we were talking at the cars a couple of times, he's like, oh, we got to stop talking.

[2070] Let's save this.

[2071] And then he said it to you.

[2072] We were here in here.

[2073] Yeah.

[2074] He said, let's wait till we're on mic or something.

[2075] Yes.

[2076] And he said that like four times throughout.

[2077] Anytime we actually just be connecting downstairs and telling some stories.

[2078] And I interpreted that as he still cares.

[2079] Yeah.

[2080] He wants this to be good.

[2081] You don't know when you're getting someone as successful as him.

[2082] if he's going to care anymore and it was obvious he just cared a ton yeah and I was like oh this is so comforting this makes me like go immediately from a 10 down to a two of anxiety that's great yeah glad we got to do it really glad really happy for you any anything from therapy you want to talk about no keep that to myself you're washing your hair anything fall out my hair is falling out It's thinning, I think.

[2083] My vitamins are helping.

[2084] Oh, I mean, I guess update.

[2085] I feel good on the vitamin now.

[2086] Okay.

[2087] I actually...

[2088] You got through it.

[2089] Love it.

[2090] Oh, you love it.

[2091] I think it's helping me a lot.

[2092] I don't know, but I think it's helping with a lot of things.

[2093] Oh, wonderful.

[2094] Yeah, so I've come around.

[2095] Okay.

[2096] There was a, you know, I had to get through a hard stretch.

[2097] An adjustment phase?

[2098] An adjustment period.

[2099] But I'm past that.

[2100] and it's, I'm happy.

[2101] David.

[2102] Oh, the bear experts here.

[2103] Oh, my God.

[2104] David.

[2105] David, we have some news for you.

[2106] You'll like this story.

[2107] Why don't you sit at a mic for a second?

[2108] Hello.

[2109] Letterman was on last week.

[2110] I love Letterman.

[2111] He's the number one.

[2112] He's big.

[2113] All time.

[2114] We have him in New Zealand.

[2115] Yeah, yeah.

[2116] So he, when deciding to do some homework, for our show went to listen to it but he didn't go to Spotify right so he went to Apple cat or whatever well I don't even know it when he went to yeah but he saw oh great um there's an episode with a bear expert so he fully listened to the show thinking where's Dax and why does this bear expert not know anything about bears so funny he was like you were on the show But he wasn't, it was somebody else, and they didn't know anything about bears.

[2117] It's really good.

[2118] Stumbling on flightless bird would be the nightmare for a guest trying to study your show.

[2119] Very different shows.

[2120] I'm sure they'd enjoy it.

[2121] They just would be very confused where I was.

[2122] And then, of course, that there was a bear expert from a country with no bears.

[2123] Did he learn anything about bears?

[2124] Or did you just say puzzled?

[2125] He said mainly he was just confused.

[2126] Yeah, massively confused by the whole thing.

[2127] That's really good.

[2128] Well, David Letterman's listened to the podcast That feels so good Yeah, he's listening to more episodes of your show than ours Oh my God He didn't love it but He listened Hi Okay, we have We're going to wrap it up here We're going to wrap it up It's turning into a party We have a party I love you, love you David Love you, love you guys Love David Letterman And David Ferrier And also I'm proud of you Oh thank you You did a great job Thank you I appreciate it.

[2129] It was, it was beautiful.

[2130] As I said, I'm just going to compare it to one other thing.

[2131] You know, my dad died.

[2132] Whoa.

[2133] And I wasn't it.

[2134] David looks so uncomfortable when you just said that.

[2135] And David Ferrier killed him because my father was following his advice on a camping trip about interacting with large bears, carnivores.

[2136] Squirrels.

[2137] Yeah.

[2138] Codiacs, I believe.

[2139] No, but he died.

[2140] And then it wasn't until four months later when I wrote about him that I had my actual first feeling, human feeling about it.

[2141] Yeah.

[2142] And then now 10 years after the fact, I'm having the most amount of dreams about them and the most amount of feelings about them.

[2143] And I don't know why that's how I am.

[2144] But this thing for me is already that, where it's like today I feel more sweetness about it than I was able to.

[2145] You can feel it in your body a little more.

[2146] It's like seeping in of, yeah, that really happened.

[2147] I have this panic if I acknowledge it happened.

[2148] It'll go away.

[2149] Right.

[2150] Right.

[2151] I understand.

[2152] But that's not how.

[2153] Life works or brains work.

[2154] I know.

[2155] It takes a while for it to have not been taken away before I can start enjoying it.

[2156] We're getting there.

[2157] We're getting there.

[2158] We're inching closer and closer.

[2159] Love it.

[2160] All right.

[2161] Do you have a sign off?

[2162] David, do you want to?

[2163] I want to try saying it doesn't come naturally, but I love you guys.

[2164] Oh my God.

[2165] Yeah.

[2166] I wish you could.

[2167] Never in my life would I have expected.

[2168] I wish you guys could have seen how unnatural is face, like as he was delivering.

[2169] If you can remember Chevy Chase in Christmas vacation when he's got the piece of chicken in his mouth or turkey.

[2170] And he's like, are you chewing it really interesting?

[2171] Oh, my God.

[2172] That's good, it's good.

[2173] My glasses are foking up.

[2174] Oh, oh, boy.

[2175] Oh, so much is happening.

[2176] Full system meltdowns.

[2177] She said, I love you.

[2178] Oh, my God.

[2179] I love you, David, and you're cute and you're intelligent and you're a hard worker.

[2180] You have a great haircut.

[2181] Yeah, and a good frame, too.

[2182] Yeah, really nice frame.

[2183] All right, love you guys.

[2184] All right.

[2185] Bye.

[2186] expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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