Are You Sick and Tired of Being Sick and Tired?

[0] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] Dr. John Deloney, number one bestselling author and host of the extremely popular Dr. John Deloney's show on YouTube and podcast is my co -host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money.

[2] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[3] You jump in, we'll talk.

[4] Tasha is with us to start this hour.

[5] She's in Columbus.

[6] Hi, Tasha, what's up?

[7] Hi, how are you?

[8] Better than I deserve.

[9] What's going on in your life?

[10] So I have been working my way out of bit.

[11] I actually found your page on TikTok, which made me want to start working my way out of debt.

[12] So I have started my emergency fund, which I don't know if I'm working backwards.

[13] So I started my emergency fund first, and I will say that I have now gotten myself out of overdrafting any of my accounts.

[14] Good for you.

[15] How long has it been since you've stopped?

[16] How long ago did you start the overdrafting?

[17] Has it been like your whole life?

[18] Yeah.

[19] Yeah, this is in my whole life thing.

[20] This is a breakthrough, isn't that kid?

[21] The way to go.

[22] Yeah, it is.

[23] And then once I found, like, your financial thing, it's taking me about six weeks to save.

[24] I'm up to $3 ,300.

[25] I have $3 ,000 in my savings account.

[26] I'm at my checking account.

[27] What do you make?

[28] So this is a thing.

[29] With one job, I make $27.

[30] So I work three different.

[31] jobs.

[32] I work two full -time jobs, one part -time.

[33] About a year, I am averaging about $90 ,000 a year, but I don't really see any of it because of how much debt I'm in and how much my spending was out of control.

[34] Yeah.

[35] First, the spending, yeah.

[36] How much debt have you got?

[37] So when I went to go try to file for bankruptcy, it was about $30 ,000.

[38] Did you file for bankruptcy?

[39] No, I didn't because they told me I didn't qualify because most of it is student loans?

[40] Most of it was.

[41] I have small credit cards that are like $600 and then.

[42] You said was.

[43] Is it gone?

[44] Well, no, it's still there.

[45] So is then, it is.

[46] Yeah, so we, we, we, we, we, we, you have how much in, you know, how much in student loans?

[47] Um, I have about 15 ,000 in students.

[48] loan.

[49] I have a car note, which I have left about $6 ,000, and then the rest of it is just credit cards that I messed up when I was younger.

[50] You 27?

[51] I'm 33.

[52] 33.

[53] Yeah, you're in that range.

[54] That's where I figured.

[55] I was going to say 30, but I didn't want to.

[56] Okay.

[57] Good for you.

[58] Good for you.

[59] Well, so you're ready to go.

[60] you're ready to try new stuff because you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, am I right?

[61] Yes.

[62] I'm proud of you.

[63] Good work.

[64] Thank you.

[65] All right.

[66] So here's what we're going to do.

[67] I'm going to put you into Financial Peace University, which is our nine -week class.

[68] I'm going to pay for it.

[69] Thank you.

[70] You're why I do this, people that are like you, that have, the first time in your whole life, adult life, you're not doing overdraft because we taught you something.

[71] and now we're going to teach you how to get rid of this death, and we're going to teach you how to control this $90 ,000.

[72] And I'm going to teach you how to be a millionaire.

[73] Would that be okay?

[74] Yes.

[75] I'm really crying right now.

[76] This is something like this.

[77] This has been my dream to talk to you because it's just like this.

[78] I've never even saved ever, save $3 ,000 in my life.

[79] I literally have an account now that I get money transferred to, and I don't need to look at that account until like payday comes and I just check to make sure whatever money I have the percentage is put there.

[80] It's not a bad start, but I want it to be even more powerful than that, where you don't have to hide it from yourself because you're so freaking strong.

[81] That's where we're going to go, okay?

[82] Okay.

[83] All right.

[84] So with the Financial Peace University, there's a thing called the Every Dollar budgeting app that we're also going to hook you up with.

[85] We're going to pay for all of it.

[86] And that's where you're going to give every one of your dollars a name before the, the month begins and you're going to make your you're going to tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went for the first time in your life and then we're going to start working our way through these debts and we're going to list the debts smallest to largest and making $90 ,000 if you will stay out of restaurants and not go on vacation because you ain't scared of work you know how to work I don't have to teach you that one you got that going on so you're going to make $90 ,000 we're going to use $30 ,000.

[87] thousand of it and in one year from right now you're going to be a hundred percent debt free for the first time in your adult life are you ready yes all right you can do it you can do it um because 90 minus 30 60 you can live on 60 once you get your crap together right yes I can okay so you get the car paid off cut up the credit cards we're going to get rid of those we're going to get rid of Sally May you don't need a room mate named Sally Mae.

[88] She's an ugly woman.

[89] We don't want her in your house, all right?

[90] Okay.

[91] And you're going to, you're going to make every dollar behave.

[92] You're going to be thinking about every dollar before it comes and where it's going to go, and it's going to be on task and on goal, because Tasia is not going to be the same woman one year from today that she was four months ago.

[93] Okay.

[94] Okay.

[95] And the other thing is, John and I are here, and anytime you need us while you're working on this.

[96] You just call back and we'll talk about whatever it is you're dealing with, okay?

[97] Okay.

[98] All right.

[99] You think you can do it?

[100] I think you can do it.

[101] Yes, I can.

[102] I'm excited.

[103] I think she can do it.

[104] Tasha, I know you can.

[105] Hey, listen, as you get going, you're going to have family members and friends calling out and saying, hey, now that you got all this money, can you help me out?

[106] And if they don't go on the budget, they don't go on the budget.

[107] Is that fair?

[108] Okay.

[109] It's fair.

[110] Yeah.

[111] How many people you bail out on a regular basis a lot?

[112] majority of like my mom friends who ask I'm a very much a loner and if they don't give it back I'll just say whatever but sometimes they don't understand like when I loan the money I'm known there's something that I don't even have my own self so I know I can tell that's who you are and people who people of character who work as hard as you do have leeches all around them part of you standing up tall for the first time and Dave's going to give you a path he's going to set you free but he's going to set you free in more ways than just your money you're going to have to learn to say no you're going to learn to say no and you're going to find freedom that you you're going to find strength you didn't even know you had yeah but the answer is no you're listen only the strong can help the week and you're broke you need to quit helping other broke people okay yeah you got to tell them just say no I'm broke because you're broke you got $30 ,000 in debt.

[113] You're broke.

[114] You're living on overdraft because you're helping other people.

[115] You're broke.

[116] So the answer, you're telling the truth.

[117] I can't help you.

[118] I'm broke.

[119] That's the answer all the time.

[120] No, I can't.

[121] I'm broke.

[122] I'm working on not being broke.

[123] And you can too.

[124] I'll show you how, but I'm working it.

[125] I'm not going to do this.

[126] No. No is a complete sentence, Tasia.

[127] You can use it on everyone, loved ones and otherwise.

[128] Get them.

[129] Hold on.

[130] Austin will pick up.

[131] We'll get you signed up for all that.

[132] You call us when you need help.

[133] This is the Ramsey show.

[134] So here's a quick math refresher.

[135] There are only 24 hours in a day, so your business needs to streamline tasks that are time suckers and focus on activities that make money.

[136] So to reduce headaches as they scale, smart businesses use NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud financial system.

[137] NetSuite helps you improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform.

[138] So join the more than 37 ,000 smart businesses like Ramsey Solutions that have done the math and graduated to NetSuite.

[139] And right now you can download NetSuite's KPI checklist absolutely free at NetSuite .com slash Ramsey.

[140] That's NetSuite .com slash Ramsey.

[141] Dr. John Deloney, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney show.

[142] Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[143] Yesterday we launched Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials for sale.

[144] On May 21st and 22nd, I'm going to be doing a two -night event, two hours each night virtually.

[145] And so you can watch it from the comfort of your little home or your big home or wherever it is you want to watch it.

[146] And we're going to walk through what I do with investing.

[147] This is stuff I've never done before.

[148] Not in detail and length like this.

[149] These are things that I've never done an event.

[150] on it.

[151] I've shared this with wealthy people that I am coaching, and I've got lots of friends that are, you know, net worth of $100 million or $500 million or a billion or whatever, and, you know, we talk about what they're doing.

[152] We share ideas back and forth.

[153] So what do you do?

[154] So we're going to talk about it.

[155] We're going to talk about what works, what doesn't and why, and what I open up my playbook, my real estate, I buy a lot of real estate.

[156] How do I do that?

[157] How do I analyze a piece of estate under what situations do I buy real estate do I do a cryptocurrency a young man asked me that at the break and that kind of thing so we get into every bit of that y 'all know I don't do cryptocurrency that's already a given so we're going to talk about the basics for a few minutes and get stuff like your 401k settled and that kind of thing and then we're going to get into my personal strategies on extended investing things there's a lot of people got a lot of opinions about investing um I actually do it it.

[158] It's not just a theory.

[159] That's the difference.

[160] And it's got a lot, it's got some zeros on it.

[161] So, um, we're going to help you.

[162] Go to Ramsey Solutions .com slash events.

[163] Tickets are $199 .00.

[164] May 21, 22, Dave Ramsey's investing essentials.

[165] George Campbell's going to come along with me. Also, there's going to be a format where you guys can actually submit live questions while we go along.

[166] And I'll stop and interject and, you know, keep that moving, keep a little bit of a conversation going, if you will, as part of it.

[167] It's not just going to be me yacking at a camera the whole time.

[168] So looking forward to that.

[169] It's going to be good.

[170] Greg is in Boston.

[171] Hey, Greg, welcome to the Ramsey show.

[172] Hey, John.

[173] I speak to you today.

[174] It's a real honor.

[175] Now, I've been just a listener for a while, and the total money bankover is a Bible in our household.

[176] So the backstory is my wife and I are in Baby Step 2.

[177] We have about $5 ,000 left on a credit card debt of 20 ,000.

[178] We spent the last few years putting that together and being more financially savvy.

[179] We've been paying about $1 ,000 a month until the last year, and we've been doing so just to chip away at it.

[180] Our household income is about $200 ,000 between my base and my commission and my wife's salary, and we have two paid for cars and no other debt.

[181] Now, I had a good quarter last year.

[182] We received about $12 ,000, but we just had our second baby a month ago and we have all these medical bills that are piling up and my question is all these medical bills you didn't have insurance we do we we have a um so how much medical bills you got for a baby so there's a long story to that my wife I didn't have insurance for that time we had to do with this whole appeal process but the the end result is that we got her back on my insurance and our total deductible is $3 ,200 a month I'm sorry total is $3 ,200.

[183] and we have a $6 ,800, I'm out -of -pocket maximum.

[184] Now, we hit our deductible because of the labor and delivery, and the question is, now, do I just pay off the debt that I've accumulated with my commission?

[185] I'm sorry.

[186] I'm sorry.

[187] I thought you got her back on the insurance, and you met the deductible.

[188] What other bills have you got?

[189] Well, we haven't paid our deductible yet because the medical bills have filed.

[190] up to the point of hitting our deductible.

[191] Oh, okay.

[192] So, piled up as $3 ,200 and you make $200 a year?

[193] Correct.

[194] Okay, and you've got $5 ,000 left on a credit card.

[195] So $8 ,000 makes you debt -free and you make $200 a year.

[196] How much is your commission check, dude?

[197] It was about $12 ,000 for the last quarter.

[198] Right, a check and pay it all off instantly.

[199] Why would you screw around with a small amount of money when you make this kind of money?

[200] Well, I'm just a little concerned with, you know, how the market is.

[201] is doing and I just wanted what's the market got to do with you having $8 ,000 in debt and $12 ,000 in your hand right nothing nothing pay it cut up the stupid credit cards and stop screwing around with these people man you make way too much money it's not $320 ,000 it's $3 ,200 bucks and you just told me it's piling up see what it's doing to you yeah even your language says this is stressing you out and I'm setting you free and you're arguing with me. Help me out, man. What about this?

[202] Are you scared of?

[203] It's more about like not having the cash on hand.

[204] We just had a few major issues go on with our house.

[205] We had a water pump that had to be replaced.

[206] It was $3 ,000.

[207] You know, my car just had to be serviced for additional $1 ,500.

[208] So there's just all these bills.

[209] Do you have an emergency fund?

[210] No, that's the problem.

[211] I wanted to use that money.

[212] Isn't your take -home pay $15 ,000 a month?

[213] Well, you know, pre -tax, yes.

[214] No, not pre -tax.

[215] Pre -tax would be $18 ,000 a month.

[216] Your take -home pay ought to be north of $10 ,000.

[217] You don't have any kind of a budget or spending plan that you and your wife are agreed on.

[218] And so you're throwing money into chaos, and you're wondering why it's creating more chaos.

[219] You need to do your written game plan, and you will get peace from that.

[220] you will never get peace from stacking cash in chaos.

[221] Okay.

[222] And you need to write a check and pay off this stuff today.

[223] What Dave just said, don't miss that.

[224] You are chasing peace by trying to get a dollar amount in an account.

[225] That is not where it will come from.

[226] The peace will come from.

[227] And we know that because teachers become millionaires over time.

[228] The piece is going to come from the plan and then living out that plan.

[229] Yeah, laying out a detailed thing and executing the deal.

[230] detailed thing.

[231] And so there's an amazing thing that happens with money that when you start telling it what to do, you will feel like you got a raise.

[232] I'm sitting here aghast that you're stressed and have this level of anxiety and drama around $8 ,000 when you make 200.

[233] But what that tells me is you have absolutely no control over your money.

[234] And that chaos is sucking up all of your money.

[235] You make, yeah, you make $200 ,000.

[236] This should be the most, and you got a baby for $3 ,000.

[237] This should be the most joyous time.

[238] You're rich.

[239] Yeah, but your words are indicating your stress level.

[240] It's like, because when you start saying medical bills are piling up, I thought we had a million dollar NICU bill or something.

[241] Right.

[242] The way you were talking about it.

[243] And it's $3 ,000, which is a lot if you make $30 ,000, but if you make $200, you know, what this So it's not the money, it's the drama.

[244] And the drama is we don't have a plan.

[245] We're out of control.

[246] And so I can't see my way to taking care of the pump if it goes out, even though I'm bringing home $11 ,000 a month, you know.

[247] And so, yeah, you're going to be okay, but you're going to have to get on a game plan.

[248] Get the every dollar budget app and get started with your spouse tonight and write a check out of this and be debt free tonight and make this the first month of your life that you tell your money what to do.

[249] instead of wondering where it went.

[250] This is the reason people have too much month left at the end of the money.

[251] No one sits down and says, I have a plan to be broke.

[252] No one plans to be deeply in debt and oh, Sally Mae for 20 years.

[253] No one plans to have master card be their master or American distress be their sister.

[254] You know, no one plans for that.

[255] No one intentionally says, hey, let's go deeply in credit card debt.

[256] That'll help us.

[257] Right.

[258] Just happens because there's no plan.

[259] There's no plan.

[260] How often do you hear people, an undercurrent I heard in that call was he had a plan for that quote -unquote bonus money he's going to get and now it's got to go to paying off a credit card and it feels like he lost in addition to paying that debt it feels like he lost that $12 ,000 because for the last quarter he's been waiting to get that bonus so he could go buy a boat or a car or whatever and it feels almost like a double whammy yeah it is it is it is because you've spent the money twice you spend it in your head or your heart And most people spend it like three times.

[261] Well, if I have like a commission check, I think I'm going to get and it ends up being half, it's still a stupid amount of money, but I feel like, oh, I got robbed, right?

[262] It's that, come on, man. Come on, man. This is The Ramsey Show.

[263] Hey, what's up?

[264] Dr. John Deloney here.

[265] The temperature of your environment plays a critical role in deep and restorative sleep.

[266] But if your house is like my house, I like things freezing when I sleep.

[267] And my wife would prefer to sleep on the surface of the sun.

[268] I've held out hope that somebody would crack the code on a solid mattress cooling technology for years.

[269] And now the masterminds at eight sleep have done it.

[270] They've created a fitted sheet with cooling and heating technology embedded.

[271] It's called the eight sleep pod.

[272] I'm so out of my mind excited to tell you guys about this.

[273] The pod cover can be easily added to your existing mattress like a fitted sheet for individualized temperature adjustments, down to 55 degrees and up to 110 degrees based on your environment and your body, temperature throughout the night.

[274] In either side of the bed can have a different temperature.

[275] This is the ultimate sleep experience and it's proven to give you up to 34 % more deep sleep every night.

[276] I can tell you from personal use, my sleep has transformed.

[277] Go to eightsleep .com slash Ramsey to learn more and save up to $400 on an eight sleep bundle.

[278] That's E -I -G -H -T -Sleep .com slash Ramsey for up to $400 in savings on an eight -sleep bundle.

[279] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, Personality, is my co -host today.

[280] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[281] Today's question comes from Deborah in Ohio.

[282] My brother -in -law recently died in his sleep, and my sister had passed away in 2019.

[283] When their children met with the insurance company, they found out my oldest son and I were named as beneficiaries.

[284] I think this may have been an oversight, because the children were minors when they got the policy.

[285] They still will get an IRA, a house, a car, et cetera.

[286] The kids are pressuring me to sign over their money.

[287] It would help to hear from someone not close to the situation.

[288] What should I do?

[289] Well, I think you need to make a decision of, was this an oversight?

[290] If it was left to you to take care of them, when they were minors and they're no longer minors and he had just hadn't been diligent with his estate plan and fixed his beneficiaries then you are saying you accidentally did get money that was intended for them if that's the case i would give it to them if on the other hand if we that's what it sounds like but if there's another scenario that's like okay he wanted to leave us some money and he used the policy to do that and he very clearly intended to do that and they just feel like they're entitled to it just because it was their dad and mom but they but dad and mom had a very very clear intent to leave it to us then they're just up a creek you're not entitled to anything because you're kin uh that's not it's not their money but if you truly do believe what you said that you think it's an oversight then on a moral basis i'd give it to them or option three maybe these kids are hurting obviously they've been through a lot the last few years but if they're running to their aunt saying um give us our money maybe there was some anticipated immaturity and we want you to do what's right with this money that's best going to love these kids maybe not but man yeah i mean it again i think you need to decide what your brother -in -law and your sister's intent was legally you can keep the money.

[291] It's not their money.

[292] Legally, it's your money.

[293] Period.

[294] No question.

[295] Nobody's going to argue that.

[296] No court's even going to look at this.

[297] They'll dismiss it in 30 seconds.

[298] It's your money.

[299] It's in your hands.

[300] If you think that it was a mistake, it was an envelope mailed to the wrong address, and you, you know, you do feel like it's rightfully theirs, then I would give it to them.

[301] Just would.

[302] It's what I would do in that situation you're asking.

[303] Again, though, if they, if you, on John's point, option three is the parents felt like the kids were too immature to handle this money, and we don't even know how much it is, you didn't tell us, life insurance money, so I'm guessing it's north of 100 grand, but, mom and the parents left it to you because they thought the kids were going to mess it up.

[304] They should have left it into a trust instead, but they didn't.

[305] They left it to you and left you in an awkward position.

[306] Then you can handle it like you think they want it handled, which would be to dole it out slowly to the kids.

[307] like they might have done if it was left in a trust.

[308] That's a good point, John.

[309] You could do that.

[310] Let's see here.

[311] I think this might have been an oversight because the children were minors when they took out the policy.

[312] That's what I'm going on.

[313] Right.

[314] But I'm just thinking of my family members.

[315] And if I have a niece and a nephew, one of which is doing great, one of which is really struggling.

[316] And I know that my brother or sister, were they alive, would treat this differently.

[317] and they gave me the money, I'm just thinking out loud here, but maybe I might say, no, for tuition, yeah, but not for your life challenges.

[318] I'm going to take care of you like they would have.

[319] There you go.

[320] And I'm going to love you well.

[321] And you may not like that.

[322] Yeah.

[323] But if you don't like it, I don't care.

[324] You're not in control here.

[325] I'm in control.

[326] It's in my control to do whatever.

[327] But you can decide what was the, what I would go with is what your brother -in -law and your sister's intent was if you think you, if you think you can, anticipate that.

[328] Was it to take care of this and manage it for these immature adults?

[329] Or was it to, was it just they screwed up and never made the beneficiary change?

[330] That's simple.

[331] And I don't know.

[332] I can't, you said in your email that you thought it was an oversight.

[333] And so that's what I'm going on.

[334] So guys, this, this is why you go to mama to bearlegalforms .com and you get a will.

[335] By the way, when you die, the state that you're living in will do the probate, not the last state you lived in when you did your will at the other state.

[336] So when you move to a different state, when you go through a major life change, you need to update your will.

[337] When the kids grow up, you need to update your life insurance policy and change the beneficiary.

[338] And you've got to keep up with this stuff.

[339] and so you know this is what rich people do they take care of the money so the lawyers don't get it in some argument about something because they take care of business and so I'm sad for the loss of your brother -in -law and your sister I'm sorry for that but their job was to not have this mess your job is not have this mess people your job is to get a will in the state that you live in in the family situation that you're in.

[340] So as soon as your spouse passes away, you need a new will in the state that you live in.

[341] As soon as you move or you get a divorce or the kids grow up, you know, we had one set of estate plan before when our kids were minors.

[342] When they were no longer minors, we changed the estate plan and had a new will done.

[343] And so go to Mama Bear Legal Forms, go to your estate planning attorney and get this stuff done.

[344] This is how families end up not speaking to each other.

[345] My aunt ripped me off.

[346] She took all that money that mama gave accidentally because mama didn't fix it.

[347] And a bunch of freaking rednecks, you know, I can hear it now.

[348] I've grown up with them my whole life, you know, and shut up.

[349] It's just white trash.

[350] Shut up.

[351] Don't be arguing about money.

[352] Love your family.

[353] Take care of your family.

[354] And if you're going to cut somebody out of the will, tell them while you're alive.

[355] Let them be pissed off at you while you're walking the earth.

[356] Don't leave it on somebody else to get pissed off at.

[357] So, you know, mad at my aunt because she didn't, she, she executed the will exactly as it was supposed to be executed and was written.

[358] And she's the executor of the estate, which by the way means execute.

[359] That's what it means.

[360] You have to do what the will says.

[361] And the will says you didn't get any money.

[362] So you're mad at your aunt.

[363] That's dumb.

[364] You can be mad at your mama is what you need to be mad.

[365] at.

[366] She's dead, but she's the one screwed you out, not your aunt.

[367] Your aunt has to do exactly the way it is.

[368] So you folks, if you're going to do that stuff, do it while you're alive.

[369] We have a full -on estate planning meeting that goes two hours every year.

[370] Basically, if Dave dies this year, this is what it looks like.

[371] It's all laid out for the whole company.

[372] Leadership, publicity plan, traffic control, everything.

[373] It's all discussed.

[374] It's ridiculous because I love my family so much that I don't want them in a situation like that to have to deal with crap that I was supposed to deal with when I was alive.

[375] That's called doing a will.

[376] Did I get fired up about that?

[377] No, I'm kind of waiting to hear what you really think about the whole thing.

[378] And just to people know this is not academic.

[379] I had an opportunity to get a will done by one of the great wills and trust professors in the country, Jerry Byer, walked me through it, did my whole thing in Texas, and then I moved.

[380] And one of the first things we did when we got to Tennessee was Mama Bear Wheels, and we did a will there.

[381] And it's not going to do my whole estate plan, all that, but I had to have something on paper.

[382] That is valid in that state.

[383] Because I'm a responsible parent in that state.

[384] Estate planning is state law, probate law, is state law.

[385] It's not federal law.

[386] And so Louisiana law is way different.

[387] It's French -based.

[388] California is way different.

[389] It's granola -based.

[390] I'm telling you, the laws in these states are dramatically different.

[391] So you need to do a will in the state you live in right now.

[392] This is the Ramsey Show.

[393] These days, it's not if your identity gets stolen.

[394] It's when.

[395] And the only ID theft protection plan I have ever recommended is from Xander insurance.

[396] It helps real people with real life situations.

[397] Like the call we got on the show recently where a woman's abusive ex opened a credit card in her name and racked up over $8 ,000 in debt.

[398] Then the bank sued her, even though the charges weren't hers.

[399] What a mess.

[400] With Xander's help, she was able to get the entire nightmare cleared up and now her family is officially debt -free.

[401] Listen, Zander's identity theft protection is the best option out there.

[402] They have all the cyber tools and monitoring services you need.

[403] They cover all types of ID theft and they even include up to $2 million in stolen funds protection.

[404] In the end, though, you need an ally.

[405] Someone on your side to take over the work and fix the problem.

[406] That's what Xander is all about.

[407] Go to zander .com to learn more or call 800 -356 -42 -82.

[408] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, personality is my co -host today.

[409] Joseph is in Greenville, South Carolina.

[410] Hey, Joseph, what's up?

[411] Hey, Dave, how are you doing today?

[412] Better than I deserve.

[413] How can I help?

[414] So, just a little background.

[415] Back in 2015, I was in a terrific car accident where I sustained a severe traumatic brain injury.

[416] And for four years after that, I underwent many surgeries, one of them being one of the world's most dangerous surgery, the creonomy, which required their removal.

[417] of half my skull first several months, and I had that done total three times.

[418] So life hit me hard out nowhere.

[419] So the question is, and today I'm doing, and I just want to say, I'm not your typical severe TBI survivor.

[420] I'm very blessed today.

[421] I have a beautiful family, two daughters, beautiful wife, and a job in a house.

[422] So I'm very blessed today.

[423] But the question I have for you is, how do I embrace the present moment to its fullest potential while also ensuring that I prepare for my future.

[424] Being as someone that knows how finite life can be, how quickly it can end, I just don't want to put myself in a place where I'm so focused on saving for the future to what I might not have, if that makes sense.

[425] Yeah, but it sounds like you've made a mutually exclusive.

[426] What's the difference between living in the moment and preparing for your financial future?

[427] Like, you know, I've been tackling debt, but I want to make sure that when I have vacation time, I go on the vacations, I want to make sure I enjoy the money I have now, but I also want to be saving it for the future, for my kids.

[428] Okay.

[429] And you feel like you're missing out on something if you don't do it in a spectacular fashion?

[430] Let me tell you the thoughts that are going through my mind.

[431] we had the opportunity for the first time ever in our family's history to do an out of the country all four of us me and my wife and the two kids went and it was a magical trip and it was pretty cool and we did that last year if you were to ask my two kids what their favorite trips they've like if what's your favorite vacations they would name that one and they both would point back to this time we caught the giant catfish What they don't know is the giant calffish was at a K -O -A.

[432] And we put a line out over water.

[433] I mean, overnight, and we got up and fought that thing all morning, and it was a blast, and then we ate the calf.

[434] It was the whole thing that we did together.

[435] My point is...

[436] It didn't cost any money.

[437] Didn't cost any money.

[438] And so it's this idea that YOLO, it has to be shiny, and we have to get on jets and go across the world versus the most precious resource you got is time.

[439] Yes, I do agree with that.

[440] Okay.

[441] So then there's no strain between your vacation and your debt reduction or between your vacation and your savings.

[442] Well, I understand, you know, obviously you can have fulfilled moments without money.

[443] You can do these things without money and stuff.

[444] But I also understand, you know, if it's hard now, it's easy later.

[445] So I want to make sure I, you know, with my job, get as much overtime as I can, be able to save as much money as I can.

[446] But at the same time, I want to make sure I'm not working so much and I'm not.

[447] seeing the moments just pass by yeah you got to have you got to have a plan so so here's the thing you're projecting these concepts as if they never ebb and flow as if they're a straight line like i'm going to work overtime for the next 25 years and i'm never going to see my children that's not how it works not how life works number one but it's also not what we suggest so But would I work overtime, even in your situation, where you've had this tremendous drama that you've been through, this legitimate, that makes you value every precious moment?

[448] And I get that.

[449] That's a clear perspective, right?

[450] And so what does that do?

[451] And it's like going to one of my good friends' funeral the other day.

[452] It's like one of the pastors said it's a tuning fork.

[453] Funerals and births are a tuning fork.

[454] that causes us to reset our lives and be very careful with what we're doing and thoughtful about what we're doing instead of just wasting away our lives.

[455] And that's what this event did for you.

[456] And that's what you're bringing up.

[457] And that's very wise.

[458] That's a positive result from the horrible thing you went through.

[459] So I'm aligned with you on all of that.

[460] But, you know, when we say live like no one else so later you can live like no one else, it's a sprint so that you can get in the rhythm of a marathon.

[461] And the sprint is the only thing that's, in question.

[462] And so, you know, you've got 18 months to get out of debt and you're going to work like a crazy man overtime and you're going to pile up some savings, get your emergency fund in place.

[463] But I don't want you doing that for 18 years.

[464] And can I flip it around, Joseph?

[465] Few people in the world understand like you do that you can be taken away from your family in a blink of an eye.

[466] And you and I have both accepted a responsibility as providers for our family that we're going to put them in the best possible situation, not if, but when we go.

[467] Dave has two.

[468] And so you know, if I'm in debt, if I'm behind, I'm going to work with all I can to get caught up so that I leave my family in the best possible position too.

[469] Yeah.

[470] So what I would do is say, let's map this out, okay?

[471] How much debt have you got as an example?

[472] Let's use that as an example.

[473] Okay, so I just recently finished paying off my wife, our student loans.

[474] And so right now, I'm about $1 ,000 in credit card, and then I have to finish paying off my house and car.

[475] Okay, how much are you on the car?

[476] About $10 ,000.

[477] Okay.

[478] So you have $11 ,000 to be debt for you other than the house.

[479] That's what we call Baby Step 2.

[480] So, and what do you make a year?

[481] About $70 ,000 to $80 ,000 a year, depending on if I'm wanting to put in the grind for overtime.

[482] Yeah, okay.

[483] All right.

[484] the grind for overtime until I cleared the car in the credit card and cut the credit card up beyond a budget and then let's get in steady mode and say all right part of our budget is enjoyment part of our budget is 15 % of our income going into retirement part of our budget is we're going to throw a little extra at the house part of our budget is travel um part of our budget is life and you just start segmenting that out and you can do all that but but i would i would go on a short sprint here and knock that car out in that credit card.

[485] That's an example.

[486] And then, you know, here's the thing.

[487] If you lay it all out, you can save for long term.

[488] You can save for college and save for Christmas and save for a trip, all in the same budget.

[489] There's room in your budget to do that with what you just described.

[490] But you're going to have to be very intentional about it and very careful.

[491] And you might look up and go, oh, we need to buy a, mom a different car, so I'm going to go work overtime for a month and save up that a little bit of extra and knock that car out.

[492] You can do that, you can, but it's a come and go thing.

[493] It's, I never have in my life personally or subscribed, prescribed for someone else, the idea that you work 80 hours a week your whole life, but I've worked a lot of 80 hour weeks in my life, and I'm not a bit ashamed of that.

[494] My children are not in counseling because of that.

[495] I didn't miss out on their child.

[496] because of that.

[497] None of that crap, okay?

[498] It's a bunch of whining.

[499] And so, but I have worked some 80 -hour weeks.

[500] I also have done one periods of time where I don't do anything.

[501] And so I just got back off the longest vacation of my life.

[502] I've never done that before.

[503] And so I'm not opposed to that, but, you know, the point is the stuff is Eb and Flo.

[504] The problem people have, John, not Joseph, but other people on this whole subject, and we'll just finish that up is that they do that they're never where they are that's exactly right they're at work and they got one they're halfway at work not paying attention and if they're operating powerful machinery they're a danger because they're thinking about they ought to be at home and then when they're at home they're thinking about they ought to be at work and then when they're on vacation they're thinking about they ought to be home at work instead of like hey why don't you be where you is turn your stupid phone off throw it in a basket or the lake, one of the two, and be where you is.

[505] And then you start to get this life balance that's real.

[506] Or don't work an 80 -hour week indefinitely because you think chasing something's going to solve you or heal you or make you some sort of superhero.

[507] Work 80 -hour weeks when you get a job done.

[508] Yeah.

[509] And then when you get it done, stop, stop.

[510] That's right.

[511] Move on to the next thing.

[512] It's called being an adult.

[513] Yeah, back it off.

[514] But it's an ebb and flow.

[515] The tide comes in.

[516] The tide goes out.

[517] This is not a still lake where the levels never change.

[518] This is the Ramsey Show.

[519] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[520] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host today.

[521] We're glad you're with us.

[522] Dr. John is a number one bestselling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, where they talk about.

[523] about relationships and all kinds of mental health issues.

[524] Yeah, a lot of fun.

[525] Very entertaining.

[526] It's on the Ramsey Networks, and you can watch it on YouTube, as well as pick it up where any podcast is sold.

[527] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -25, and you people know the podcasts are not sold.

[528] All right, let's go to Heather in Indianapolis.

[529] Hi, Heather.

[530] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[531] Hi, Dave and John.

[532] Thank you for taking my call.

[533] Sure.

[534] What's up?

[535] My husband and I are debt -free except our house, and I'm wondering how much we should have.

[536] in our emergency fund.

[537] I'm a stay -at -home mom, and my husband gets paid about half of his annual income in one bonus check.

[538] So we save a large chunk of that to be put towards the next year's big expenses, like the property taxes, home and auto insurance, and medical, because his monthly take -home doesn't leave a lot of room for those.

[539] So would you still recommend having an additional six months of expenses saved up on top of that?

[540] Yes.

[541] Or, okay.

[542] Yeah, the emergency fund is a vague fund for unexpressants.

[543] expected events.

[544] What you're doing is you're just planning your cash flow.

[545] I've got to pay property taxes.

[546] They should not be an emergency.

[547] You know it's coming.

[548] Christmas should not be an emergency.

[549] It's always in December.

[550] They don't move it, you know?

[551] And so you plan for those things.

[552] Emergencies are not things you plan for.

[553] They're called emergencies.

[554] And they're unexpected events.

[555] The tires going out on your car is not an unexpected event.

[556] We can predict the tires are going to go out on your car.

[557] You need a fund to be able to put tire.

[558] on your car.

[559] You need to fund to pay your taxes.

[560] In your case, you're having to manage that very carefully and have been very wise to do that because of the wild cash flow that you guys face.

[561] It's almost like your farmers or something.

[562] You know, you get two crops a year and you got to live out of those crops the other time, right?

[563] But I mean, that's how a farmer does it.

[564] Exactly.

[565] Two or three times a year, they get a big check and they got to pay bills the rest of the year with those checks.

[566] And so you got to, you got to budget it all the way out.

[567] That's all you're doing, you're budgeting that out.

[568] That's different than emergency funds.

[569] You see what I'm saying?

[570] Yeah.

[571] You're doing a good job, by the way.

[572] Is there a recommended place to put that?

[573] So far, we do the cash envelope system.

[574] So I just take everything out, put in an envelope system, and I mean, we take out about $15 ,000 each year from that check.

[575] So is there a better place I could put that?

[576] Yeah, if you use the every dollar app, you can use, we have a system in there.

[577] We call syncing funds, which are basically little mini savings accounts for different subjects.

[578] So you'd have a sinking fund for taxes, a sinking fund for this, sinking fund for that.

[579] Then you could set it over in just a separate savings account.

[580] And you would have, but the reason you're doing that is you're breaking it out when you get it.

[581] You're allocating a little envelope for taxes, but the taxes aren't due for nine months or whatever, right?

[582] And you got a little envelope for Christmas, but it's going to be, you know, another six months before Christmas or whatever the number is, right?

[583] And so you're doing the envelopes just to keep it categorized.

[584] Am I correct?

[585] Yeah, yeah.

[586] So, yeah, you could do that in every dollar really easy and then just put the $15 ,000 in a savings account.

[587] Now, I would keep it separate from your checking because I don't want to accidentally spend it.

[588] That's why it's what you're doing.

[589] And the other thing is I would keep it separate from your emergency fund because this is not really your emergency fund.

[590] This is just we're setting aside the money to do something we need to do in September.

[591] That's all it is.

[592] His monthly take home is only about 4 ,000, so it doesn't leave a lot of room for a family of five, so we have to save it ahead of time and make sure we got those bills covered in the coming of it.

[593] Very wise.

[594] Very wise.

[595] You're doing a great job of thinking this through.

[596] You've done a, you know, you've been the whole process, it's not severely broken, but you called and asked for some help, and so all I'm doing is tuning you up a little bit, but you're really playing the right song.

[597] Okay.

[598] That makes sense?

[599] Yes, it does.

[600] Thank you so much for your help.

[601] Way to go.

[602] Good stuff, John.

[603] they tell you that um one of the keys to having a good life is marrying well and one of the keys to having a very challenging hard life is not marrying well and then not putting the effort in and whoever that guy that guy married well is what i'll say yeah yeah he did she's she's a star she's gold star so yeah that you're exactly right and you know you and i've been talking about this off here a little bit there's because we've got the marriage and money event coming up that you and Rachel do, and the tickets are on sale now, just to segue into that.

[604] But that has caused the whole subject of marriage to come up more and more and more.

[605] And all of the data that we've seen in the financial world for years has validated that two spouses on the same page have a higher probability of building wealth than a single.

[606] They also, yeah, or than a shacked up, or than a whatever.

[607] I mean, you just call it.

[608] I mean, but this committed marriage relationship, the data is in.

[609] It's not, it's not a, it's not a moral construct.

[610] It is a moral construct.

[611] But in addition to that, the data is in, and there's a socioeconomic proof set in the research that is showing very, very clearly.

[612] And we found that, again, in the, in the millionaire research, search.

[613] We didn't find hardly any millionaires that did it in spite of their crazy spouse.

[614] Right.

[615] They did it with a supportive spouse.

[616] Two horses pulling the plow together is what it amounted to.

[617] Which, which I've heard you teach that lesson accelerates the the pull force, right?

[618] Yeah, exactly.

[619] I mean, because.

[620] Or amplifies the pool force.

[621] Yeah.

[622] The synergy.

[623] It's very, very real.

[624] Yeah.

[625] And you really, and we see it all the time.

[626] And, you know, some years ago, when I first started the show 30 years ago, the sociologists would call it the marriage advantage.

[627] And there was a whole book of research that was old back then, but we've seen another round of this same type of research starting to come in because there seems to be this discussion that marriage is no longer needed.

[628] Well, I think the bill of goods that we've been sold is more important than having a good marriage.

[629] is you need to make a bunch of money.

[630] And the best way to do that is do it by yourself.

[631] And you don't even need to be married to give a child the best situation, right?

[632] And I think the sociologist, I think everybody, the anthropologist, everybody's circling back around going, oh, maybe this having a rooted structure here that everybody can anchor into and say, come hell or high water, we're going to work hard, we're going to fight, we're going to claw, we're going to make this thing magic.

[633] We're going to make this thing work has all sorts of benefits from financial, to kids, to health.

[634] Yeah, it just occurred to me. I watched a preview of a movie that's coming out called Unsung.

[635] I haven't seen the preview.

[636] It's the Irwin brothers did it.

[637] Okay.

[638] They did the Jesus Revolution.

[639] Ah, okay.

[640] And they live here in the community and their friends.

[641] And so Andy sent me a link, and Sharon and I watched Unsung.

[642] And it's about Smallbone family, which is Rebecca St. James.

[643] Yeah.

[644] And it's exactly this.

[645] The mom is the unsung hero in the movie.

[646] And that's the story arc is really.

[647] powerful on this and the family has gone on me king and country is the boys i mean the family's gone on to be unbelievably successful uh but it came out of this really hard time and then the mom and dad locking together and the mom doing these things and it's it's powerful on this exact point so you guys if you want to see an illustration of that when that movie comes out go see it it's called unsung i'll give it a big plug it's really good made me cry but i cry at applebee's commercials too so there you go this is the ramsie show dr john deloney ramsay Personality is my co -host today, open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[648] Michelle's in Long Island, New York.

[649] Hi, Michelle, how are you?

[650] Hi, I'm good.

[651] Thank you.

[652] Sure.

[653] What's up?

[654] So, my question is, I have three large outstanding debts, and I'm trying to figure out which wants to tackle first.

[655] Okay.

[656] I have my car payment, that's $16 ,000.

[657] A student loan, that's $30 ,000.

[658] and another one that's $45 ,000.

[659] Okay, we address them smallest to largest.

[660] Okay.

[661] So everything you've got, no life, no eating out, no vacations, work all the time, and throw it all at the car until the car's gone, and then the $30 ,000 until it's gone, and then the $40 ,000 until it's gone.

[662] Okay.

[663] What do you make a year?

[664] My thought was, I make $120 ,000, and my husband makes $140 ,000.

[665] Oh, $140 ,000.

[666] Oh, good.

[667] God, so you're going to do this fast.

[668] I'm trying.

[669] You know, I started your plan when, in January, but we paid off 30 ,000 of credit cards so far.

[670] In two months.

[671] We're getting there.

[672] In two months, we used our bonuses to pay it all.

[673] Very good.

[674] So you're on it.

[675] You're in attack mode.

[676] Way to go, kiddo.

[677] You're doing it.

[678] You're doing it.

[679] Don't slow down.

[680] Don't slow down.

[681] Don't slow down.

[682] Get it, get it, get it.

[683] No, you make enough money, and that tells me that y 'all a real smart and in about two months they're going to start trying to overthink this don't just keep you know she already did that's why you called you knew better you already knew the answer to the question you asked just go I do but he wants to pay the student that for us because he figures the car he's the broke guy that makes a lot of money so his opinion is really not relative he is a rich broke guy he makes a lot of money has no money yeah yeah let's change that by doing something that's proven it really doesn't matter as long as we end up out of debt but the difference is is that people will actually do the stuff that we teach where his theory people bail out yeah but the bottom line is you need about 80 ,000 bucks and you're done right well I need 80 ,000 actually and then another 100 ,000 for his duty debt okay well we're married so we have a hundred and eighty thousand dollar mess and your household income total is about a quarter million, right?

[684] Yeah.

[685] About $250, right?

[686] Uh -huh.

[687] Okay, and so you need $180 and you make $250.

[688] So not counting taxes if you lived on 71 year, you'd be dead free in a year, so you're not going to quite do it in a year, but you ought to do it in 18 months to two years.

[689] 18 months of two years, okay.

[690] So that's like $15 ,000 a month, which is actually the track you're on.

[691] Mm -hmm.

[692] Yep.

[693] because our goal is to move once we paid off all of our student debt.

[694] Once you're debt -free?

[695] Once we're death -free, then we want to move to another area.

[696] That counts a car, too, not just for student loans.

[697] Yes.

[698] You're doing it.

[699] Hey, and by the way, Michelle, it's going to be awful.

[700] Terrible.

[701] It's hard.

[702] It's going to be embarrassing.

[703] Your husband's going to be like, I make too much money to, I know.

[704] But y 'all dug a big hole.

[705] You have a deadgum mess, and if you do not address it, with a level of intensity, you will never address it.

[706] So the start that you've got is the right start.

[707] You came out of the gate hot.

[708] Now, just put the pedal of the metal and push it through and finish it.

[709] And don't screw around with this other stuff.

[710] But you get that car gone.

[711] You'll never a car payment again the rest of your life.

[712] This is the last time.

[713] You're done.

[714] You pay it off.

[715] Then you knock out, and you got a 30 and a 40 and 100.

[716] And then we get after them.

[717] Just in that order.

[718] Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[719] And we just keep firing away.

[720] And that 100 is going to be the hardest one, not cause it.

[721] it's the biggest, but because it's the biggest.

[722] Hey, this occurred to me a few months ago, Dave.

[723] I was preparing for a talk, and it was just like a light bulb went off for me. My dad was a policeman, and then about halfway through my childhood became a minister, and finances were a big stress force.

[724] I've talked about that.

[725] But my response to that was to go make a bunch of money, go get some degrees and go get some fancy jobs.

[726] And without a plan, what that allowed me to do was to dig a hole so deeper than my dad could have ever dug because the banks wouldn't have given them that much money.

[727] And so without a plan, you can end up making a quarter million dollars, and you find yourself $180 ,000 in debt.

[728] So bad off, right?

[729] And that's after paying off 30.

[730] They were 2 .10 in debt.

[731] Right.

[732] Whereas if you made 85, it wouldn't even occur to you to take out that much money, right?

[733] But since we make, I know, not, I know on this show, we get people calling.

[734] I mean, student loans are, you know.

[735] Can wipe you out.

[736] But, man, it's, if you don't have a plan, it doesn't matter how much money you make, you can just get more and more and more out of control and dig yourself.

[737] a massive hole.

[738] Yeah, it's exactly right.

[739] And you add to that the student, the student loans are loaned to an 18 year old.

[740] Right.

[741] You know, and so you loan an 18 year old 100 ,000 bucks with no collateral and no business plan.

[742] Yeah.

[743] The business plan is what?

[744] I'm going to play beer pong.

[745] That's my business plan.

[746] And so, yeah, that, this is a genius system and we wonder why it didn't work.

[747] I saw my still one of my top five of all time favorite memes was, or maybe he was a comedian said I was really, really pissed off when I was 17 and the guy at the tattoo parlor wouldn't let me get my limp biscuit tattoo on my leg and four months later they gave me $150 ,000 to go to college and I was like, come on, what are we doing?

[748] Yeah, this is your Congress on drugs.

[749] Lois is in Orlando.

[750] Hi, Lois, how are you?

[751] Well, not too bad for an old.

[752] lady.

[753] Here's my question.

[754] My husband and I are in our 80s.

[755] We have three rental properties, and we're debating.

[756] Would we be better just to sell them while we're alive or leave them to our two children to inherit?

[757] Mathematically, it would be better to leave them to inherit.

[758] it because let's take one of the rental properties what's it worth today just give me an example one of them oh like 175 and you paid what for that 45000 yeah and you've depreciated it down so your basis is probably close to zero so if you sell it today you're going to pay capital gains tax on 175 thousand dollars understand right if they inherit it they have their basis is the value at the time of your death.

[759] So if they inherit it, their basis is $175 ,000 if it happened today, okay?

[760] And they could sell it for $175 ,000 and have zero tax on it.

[761] So if you sell it, you get taxed on the whole stinking thing.

[762] If they sell it after your death, they get zero tax.

[763] Okay, that sounds like a good plan.

[764] Now, that's the math answer, then the other answer is, are they competent to pull this off?

[765] Yes.

[766] They are.

[767] They're two responsible adults.

[768] Good.

[769] Very good.

[770] Well, you did good then, didn't you?

[771] Way to go, Lois?

[772] Oh, what they want to.

[773] That's the thing.

[774] Yeah.

[775] Well, what I would tell them is say, listen, I'm going to leave it to you.

[776] You can keep it or you can sell it.

[777] But if you sell it within six months of my death, you will have no taxes on the money.

[778] Okay.

[779] Okay, so that's six months.

[780] Yeah, the IRS assumes that the value at time of death is the same inside of six months of death.

[781] But if they sell it six years later, they'll have to go back and figure out what the value was at the time of death, and they will pay gains on the difference in that value and six years of growth.

[782] Okay.

[783] And Lois, one thing that Dave said is really important.

[784] if you don't care tell your kids we don't care if you keep these houses or if you sell them because one of your kids may feel this innate sense of obligation these are mom and dad's houses somehow mom and dad's spirit is in these houses we got to keep them and if you say I don't care what you do with those houses then let them know that up front that would be such a gift to them yeah okay okay that's real good advice very cool good and make sure you have a will of course that's up to date and accurate for the state of Florida, which is where you live, the great news is there's no probate tax either in Florida.

[785] So there's no taxes in the state of Florida on an estate, which is why a lot of people move there in their retirement years.

[786] And there's no income tax in Florida, which is why the economy is booming.

[787] Note to you policymakers in these other states who thought you were going to tax the rich and they left and went to Florida.

[788] This is The Ramsey Show.

[789] Dr. John Deloney -Remsey personality is my co -host.

[790] We invite you to stop by our studios anytime here in Franklin, Tennessee, just south of Nashville.

[791] We're right on the interstate.

[792] Very easy to find.

[793] The cookies are homemade and they're free.

[794] The coffee is awesome and it's free.

[795] And usually 50 to a couple hundred folks are sitting around watching us on the glass, do the show.

[796] Right now there's a handful of folk out here.

[797] And that's free.

[798] It's worth what you pay for it.

[799] But we do the show from one to four central time Monday through Friday every week, every single week.

[800] And two of us are sitting here.

[801] Two of the Ramsey personalities are sitting here.

[802] I'm usually here Monday through Thursday, unless I'm doing something else, which would be like when I'm out doing speaking or doing an event somewhere.

[803] Also, in that same lobby is where the debt -free scream stage is.

[804] On that stage, Ryan and Madison are here.

[805] Welcome, guys.

[806] Thank you.

[807] Thank you.

[808] Good to have you guys.

[809] Where do you live?

[810] We live in the middle of nowhere in Utah.

[811] In the middle of nowhere, Utah.

[812] That's an actual town.

[813] All right.

[814] And so welcome to Nashville, the Nashville area.

[815] How much debt have you paid?

[816] We've paid off 160 ,000.

[817] Wow.

[818] How long did that take?

[819] It took us 39 months.

[820] Good for you.

[821] And your range of income during that time?

[822] Started off making around 80 ,000 and ended up making around $140 ,000.

[823] Excellent.

[824] Way to go, you guys.

[825] What kind of debt was the 160?

[826] So 60 ,000 was consumer debt, $41 ,000 in auto loans, $15 ,000 in credit card debt, and about $4 ,000 in student loans.

[827] And then $100 ,000 was our mortgage.

[828] You paid off your house!

[829] Yes, we did.

[830] Looking at weird people!

[831] How old are you weird people?

[832] I just turned 30.

[833] And I just turned 26.

[834] And you have a paid for house.

[835] That's so strange.

[836] What's the house worth?

[837] It's worth about $225 ,000.

[838] How does that feel?

[839] You guys are amazing.

[840] You're heroes.

[841] It's awesome.

[842] You're so weird.

[843] None of your friends have done it.

[844] No. Not doing it.

[845] You're just strange.

[846] I mean, it's a wonderful weird, but you're a way to go, y 'all.

[847] Thank you.

[848] Wow.

[849] One in the world.

[850] What kind of hold of you 39 months ago?

[851] When did you get married?

[852] We got married on September 11th in 2020.

[853] Okay.

[854] So you immediately started this then, basically.

[855] Oh, yeah.

[856] Well, yeah.

[857] Not long after.

[858] So I actually.

[859] Got a COVID wedding.

[860] Yep.

[861] Pretty much.

[862] Kind of a long story.

[863] But we got married about 60 days or so after we met.

[864] There were circumstances that kind of sped up the process.

[865] She was pregnant.

[866] And I realized that I love this woman and I was ready to marry her.

[867] And then I needed to step up right away.

[868] Good for you.

[869] And I had already started.

[870] my debt -free journey good for you and I was working three jobs at the time trying to save up and stash cash for my baby and I had paid off about 10 grand of my own debt and then saved an additional 10 grand so I came to the marriage debt -free um I've seen your face on my bookshelf for the past 15 years of my life my dad started um his debt -free journey when your book first came out so um yeah so your financial peace baby yep and then you guys get married or you're getting married you're planning to start this life with this baby on the way the whole thing and you go okay game on we're doing this exactly to the tea or is that how it happened i mean what happened yeah kind of um he came to me and said do you know dave ramsie and i was like oh man god there's another one first dad now him said he sound just like my dad and from then on it was just he had told me that he had just started his journey and so i said i'll i'll support you and do whatever you need me to do.

[871] And we kind of just kicked it off from there.

[872] And about halfway through the journey, he said, why don't we pay off the house?

[873] And I was like, okay, we can do that.

[874] So we did.

[875] We started paying it down and finished it faster than we thought, right?

[876] Yeah, faster than expected.

[877] Wow.

[878] You guys almost doubled your income.

[879] What happened?

[880] Somebody get a job?

[881] He worked his tail off.

[882] So, yeah, I moved into a new position working for the company that I do now.

[883] as a control room operator of a coal -fired power plant.

[884] Oh, okay.

[885] Wow.

[886] Hey, do you mind if I get a little bit sideways here for a second?

[887] Sure.

[888] I was just reading before we came on air, I was sitting in my desk reading some nerd stuff.

[889] No. And I know, right?

[890] And the number of men who walk away from the very situation you found yourself in, it was a staggering number.

[891] And that you're not a statistic.

[892] You turned around and walked straight, and said, I've got a responsibility.

[893] I love this woman.

[894] I'm going to take care of this baby.

[895] And not only am I going to do that just in name and certificate, but you freaking went to work.

[896] And that's what changing legacy looks like, my brother.

[897] So it's an honor to get to talk to you and see your face and shake your hand here in a minute.

[898] That's amazing.

[899] I just happened to be reading that, and I couldn't believe it.

[900] It was such a, it was an embarrassment for men.

[901] And you're the opposite of that.

[902] Good on you.

[903] Thank you.

[904] Good on you, man. Thank you.

[905] Well done.

[906] Well done.

[907] Very well done.

[908] So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

[909] I think our biggest thing was just making sure that we were on the same page and being able to say no. Self -control is a huge thing when it comes to getting out of debt.

[910] What was the hardest thing you said no to?

[911] Probably fast food.

[912] That's my love language.

[913] Wow.

[914] This is a pretty low bar.

[915] I was looking at him.

[916] I thought he was going to say protein powder.

[917] Oh, no, that was part of the budget.

[918] We got to keep these going.

[919] What's the biggest disagreement you had Is a newlywed couple Trying to get out of debt Managing Pregnancy and a little baby Oh man, I don't even know That's hard to say First year marriage is rough for everybody right And I mean not even to mention that we We did the first year of marriage The first baby The honeymoon phase all in one shot plus COVID so I don't know I can't think that's not even a fair question y 'all survived that so congratulations no really I'm still speechless at 26 I borrowed at 26 I borrowed $300 for my little brother for a down payment to a house and y 'all are debt free good for you thank you thank you way to go way to go they're your absolute heroes well done so proud of you who was cheering you on dad had to be yeah my dad was definitely like also the voice of reason too of if we called him and had a question of like hey should we do this he's like yeah yeah you should or no no you shouldn't and it was awesome his parents were really cheering us on and we had friends who were like how did you do that and we'd show them and they're like oh i don't want to read a book like so he's on ticot too y 'all oh god we had a lot of awesome supporters so that's good it's good way to go you guys hey we've got the uh subscription the one year subscriptions to every dollar a couple of them uh one for you guys and one for you to give away so you'll be able to make sure you get your keep your budget going because you're heading towards millionaire for sure and we want you to hit that baby steps millionaire level pretty quick here you're on your way real real fast and you brought the kiddos now there's two there are two yes all right what are the names and ages so grayson he is three and Colton, he will be two in a couple of weeks.

[920] Way to go.

[921] Some good -looking guys there to go in the mix.

[922] Excellent stuff.

[923] Very well done.

[924] I'm proud of you guys.

[925] Way to go.

[926] Way to go.

[927] Man, so whack.

[928] Not even 30 years old.

[929] Paid for houses.

[930] Paid for everything.

[931] Dave, you know me. I'm speechless and that's a rare thing.

[932] This is really good, really good people.

[933] This is the people are amazing.

[934] All right.

[935] It's Ryan and Madison, Grayson.

[936] and Colton from Utah, 160 ,000 paid off, house and everything, and they're not even 30.

[937] Count it down.

[938] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[939] Three, two, one.

[940] We're debt -free!

[941] Yeah!

[942] Wow!

[943] Absolutely amazing.

[944] So I was doing an interview with NPR this morning, and the lady was asking me the question 63 different times, different ways, how it is possible for young people in our world today with real estate prices being what they are to survive.

[945] I think we just explained it.

[946] This is the Ramsey Show.

[947] Thank you for joining us, America.

[948] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, where you can hear all about.

[949] boundaries and relationships and mental health issues like you never have any other way I can tell you that you're going it's a blast and you learn a lot and I do I love listening to it and people are just plain entertaining I can tell you that so check him out it's all on the Ramsey networks anywhere great podcasts are heard and certainly on the YouTube show as well so anywhere you are by the way if you're listening to the show we thank you for that and we can use your help if you would subscribe or follow or whatever it is on your type of podcast or YouTube, that would help us immensely.

[950] The numbers change dramatically when you do that because the different algorithms spit the show out in the face of people that need it that way.

[951] And when you don't subscribe and don't follow, we don't get that.

[952] And when you leave a five -star review, we get that.

[953] And when you share the show, some of the different platforms have a share button where you can simply share it or a way to just do a drop -down.

[954] and share it or click the link and send it to a friend or if you listen on talk radio thank you for that send this tell your friend where you're listening share this show you are our marketing plan when you do that it makes a huge difference last week we were number two and number three in all of apple podcasts there's about two million of them and joe rogan was sitting there at number one npr was in there at number two or three we were in there at number two or three and that's because of you guys sharing and telling people about it.

[955] Thank you very much.

[956] We appreciate you.

[957] It's really important because we don't have a stadium named after us like somebody or somebody like that, right?

[958] Excuse me, I got an allergy.

[959] But all right.

[960] Steve's in Salt Lake City.

[961] Hey, Steve, what's up?

[962] Hey, guys.

[963] I've got a short -term question and a longer -term question for you guys.

[964] The short time is starting taking a family vacation.

[965] So I'm a single income owner of our family.

[966] seven kids.

[967] My wife homeschools our kids at home.

[968] We've not taken a vacation in probably eight or nine years.

[969] And recently, we just got done doing a big home renovation, spent about 50 grand out -of -pocket, you know, cash flowing that.

[970] And the last little probably 15 ,000 or so we had to take out of our six months, six months fund to finish the project.

[971] But of course, it always ends up going more expensive than you thought.

[972] So my question is, and, First of all, we have a kid about to go off to college in about four months or whatever it's going to be, and we want to take that vacation before he is obviously gone.

[973] I've only saved up about $1 ,500 for a vacation over the past few months or so.

[974] Obviously, that's not going to get it done to take a family of nine on a vacation.

[975] We probably need $6 ,000 or so for that vacation.

[976] My question is, do we pause on rebuilding that six -month fund back up to about $60 ,000 and put it for the vacation or get that full six months back in the fund and then focus on a vacation?

[977] Man, that's so dangerous.

[978] That's just so dangerous.

[979] I mean, you completely rationalized spending all of your vacation money and some of your emergency fund on the renovation.

[980] and so you chose not to go on vacation when you did that.

[981] Yeah.

[982] So you traded.

[983] Because you had the money to go on vacation.

[984] You just didn't do the renovation.

[985] I mean, you chose the renovation instead of the vacation.

[986] Yeah, basically we bought a house that did not have a built -out basement, and we had half the house, basically.

[987] So that's when you chose.

[988] When you bought the wrong house, that's when you chose to not go on vacation.

[989] Okay.

[990] Because you chose to do a renovation because you chose.

[991] But say, these are all.

[992] choices.

[993] It's not like somehow that somebody stole something from you and you put the money on one thing and now you don't have it to do the other thing.

[994] That's how it works, right?

[995] Yep.

[996] And having nine kids and no emergency fund or a limited emergency fund, dude, you're asking for trouble.

[997] Okay.

[998] That's so scary.

[999] I'm scared for you.

[1000] I don't care.

[1001] It doesn't matter to me. You're the one with the nine kids.

[1002] I don't have to, I don't have to feed them.

[1003] You do but I'm scared for you.

[1004] Okay.

[1005] And I want you to get to do the things you want to do.

[1006] I'd love for you to go do that.

[1007] You can do whatever you want to do.

[1008] Y 'all are adults.

[1009] You can make these choices.

[1010] You've been making choices.

[1011] But I want you to realize that when you're making, choosing one thing with money, you're choosing not to do several other things.

[1012] Sure.

[1013] And so you're choosing, but if you choose to go on vacation and have a limited emergency fund, not if the emergency occurs, when it occurs, because it's, going to occur we we have nine opportunities for an emergency here at all times true and uh so when it occurs then you've chosen to leave your family vulnerable and the trade was for a vacation that scares me so you guys do what you want to do but i i think i'm going on a 1500 dollar vacation yeah and i think i man dave i'm totally with you and working with parents who were dropping their kids off of college there's always this illusion that we got to get this last thing in we got to do this thing it's not over no it's not over number one but often that last thing we really care about the kids we need to do it for us it's almost like this guilt induced this is it we got to do a thing and we got to everybody's got to come do this thing and it is but we've never had a vacation in how many years right in 17 or 18 years and we chose to do a renovation or buy a house that required a renovation used up all our money instead that's right so the vacation obviously was not as important wasn't a priority that's right and now it's this end and now there's a sense of, oh, we're about to lose them.

[1014] He's going to go away.

[1015] It's the last spring break.

[1016] We've got to do this thing.

[1017] And so I would invite the kids into a room and say we have this much money.

[1018] Let's get as creative as possible.

[1019] We're going to make our own snacks.

[1020] We're going to go to a K -OA.

[1021] We're going to have a blast.

[1022] But this is the money we got.

[1023] And I promise if you do it right, the kids will have a great time.

[1024] Now, whether you go and feel guilty because it's not in Cabo or something, that's on you.

[1025] But you chose to spend that Cabo money on a renovation or on a house.

[1026] But bring the kids along, man. And let's try to get as creative as possible.

[1027] And let them be a part of the planning and see what we can come up with.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] You seem distressed.

[1030] Just to just, well, I just, I, I, I want him to be able to do this.

[1031] Yeah.

[1032] But I can't as an adult say it's a good idea.

[1033] I guess there's, I kind of, I kind of get it.

[1034] But, but the other thing, I think that you're pointing out something that's very right, because we had some of the best vacations with our kids that we ever had while they're in college.

[1035] Yeah.

[1036] It's not over.

[1037] As a matter of fact, on the front of a cruise ship one night at Happy Hour before dinner, they decided as adults to start telling us all the stuff they had done as teenagers that we didn't know.

[1038] I would have paid money to be there for that.

[1039] And I left that room feeling like a total failure as a parent because I had been deceived by these three brats repeatedly throughout their teenage years.

[1040] And I had no idea.

[1041] I thought I was so on top of it.

[1042] And I I completely had no idea what these skunks had been into.

[1043] Well, here's what's going to be fun.

[1044] At the Ramsey cruise, we're going to do it again.

[1045] I'm going to get Rachel and Daniel.

[1046] And there's things that have happened in the last decade that you probably don't know about.

[1047] Oh, I don't even want to.

[1048] La, la, la, la. We're going to go through them all again, man. So, yeah, it was a great cruise other than that particular evening.

[1049] But yeah, it was, but they were adults, Daniel.

[1050] I think maybe Denise was out of college and Denise and, well, no, I know.

[1051] I guess Denise and Rachel were both married, come to think of it.

[1052] Here's what y 'all did, and we've all heard the statistic about...

[1053] We do stuff together with them as adults that's better than it would have been when they were 13.

[1054] I can tell you that.

[1055] Well, and that's the thing.

[1056] There's a statistic going around that you get 19 years with your kids.

[1057] You get 18 with them at home in the rest of their life, all added together as one year.

[1058] And I think that we just go, yeah.

[1059] I just call gosh.

[1060] But it's...

[1061] Unless you're a twirp as a parent.

[1062] It's one of those cultural...

[1063] They're just gone, and I think, nope, if you're intentional and you build relationships, and you're somebody that they want to be around.

[1064] it's kind of like what stage of children did you like the best all of them they're all different and I don't want to do any of them again but I liked all of them that little boy who just reached out to oh he's great he's great as long as I can hand him back that's what grandparents yeah my son's humongous I don't have to do the potty training I can just do the hugs okay so that that's great that's the way it's supposed to be so you know if I don't know how great grandkids are going to be I've been nicer to their parents but you know that that's a different thing So, but I'm, and I'm loving this stage.

[1065] Right.

[1066] I'm loving the other stage.

[1067] And I've loved every stage.

[1068] I don't, yeah, it's, um, so embrace the toddlerhood, embrace the teenage years.

[1069] Embrace them leaving for college.

[1070] But every expense is a choice at the end of the day.

[1071] And you're choosing, the thing you got to remember is called opportunity cost in the finance world.

[1072] You lose the opportunity to do B when you do A. When you do B, you lose the opportunity to do A. It'll only do one thing.

[1073] It won't do both.

[1074] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1075] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1076] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, personality, number one bestselling author, and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, where you can get help with any area of your life.

[1077] He's my co -host today.

[1078] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[1079] Linda is with us in Cincinnati.

[1080] Hi, Linda.

[1081] How can we help?

[1082] Well, I feel really broken.

[1083] I have acquired some personal loans, credit cards, and medical bills that my husband is not aware of.

[1084] They total in about $60 ,900 ,000 to my dollars.

[1085] I really don't know how to confront him.

[1086] about it, and I guess I need to know what my next steps after I would do that would be.

[1087] It's pretty scary, yeah.

[1088] Yeah, what happened along the way?

[1089] Well, we've been married.

[1090] It'll be 29 years this May. I'm 50 years old.

[1091] I'll be 50 on March the 23rd.

[1092] this happened one other time that I had got some credit cards and it was in 2012 the quantity of that was $7 ,774 we bought a home in 2000 and we ended up refinancing it in 2012 and we were able to get that caught up.

[1093] He was upset, but this time the quantity is much more.

[1094] Unfortunately, I met a, well, fortunately, I had met one of your preferred coaches back in 2017, and I wanted to get finances in order, not live paycheck to paycheck, and at the time I didn't have any credit card bills, just had a few loans.

[1095] And I feel like my husband has neglected some of the emotional support that he should give.

[1096] And so the coach has said, you know, you need to be a team, your husband should come.

[1097] And my husband did go one time.

[1098] And during that time, you know, we talked about our situation.

[1099] He didn't show a lot of emotion.

[1100] I cried and begged for him to take over the month.

[1101] And so the next time I met the coach, he said he could tell that my husband wasn't totally involved.

[1102] And we continued to meet for less than a year.

[1103] And I felt like I could maybe do it on my own.

[1104] So you're handling the whole household budget on your own or your finances are separate and you on your own have gone into debt.

[1105] It's all together, but he gets paid weekly, and a lot of times he will cash his check, and he will take some of that for his lunch money, and he does smoke, and so he takes that money.

[1106] If I take the check, I will give him, like, $120 for that next week.

[1107] But you're supposed to be managing all the money, and so the only reason he has doesn't know about the debt is he's not involved in the money correct so why was he upset when he gave you the money money to manage and then you didn't do it because he doesn't help well i guess i mean i take responsibility i shouldn't have done this but i do feel like he should have stepped up yeah both are true yeah both are true and they're not You know, no, you shouldn't have gone this far in debt without talking to him about it.

[1108] You should have raised a stink a long time ago.

[1109] But now here we are.

[1110] So it's $61 ,000 in debt.

[1111] And what kind of debt is this?

[1112] 11 ,000 of it is credit card.

[1113] 27 ,000 of it is like little personal loans, but they're terrible, high interest rate and stuff.

[1114] So basically you come up short in the household budget and go cover it.

[1115] with a credit card or a payday advance loan or something like that?

[1116] You are correct.

[1117] Okay.

[1118] And so it wasn't like you went and bought something for yourself on the side while he's completely running the household budget over here and you just lied to him about a credit card.

[1119] You're running the household and you're not doing a good job and that got you guys into debt.

[1120] He just doesn't know about that.

[1121] Am I correct or am I missing something?

[1122] no you are totally correct okay all right and the rest so 27 is the bad personal loans how much was credit cards again 11 ,000 okay what's the rest of it I have a 401k loan that 270 comes out of each paycheck what's the balance on the 401k loan 5200 okay and what's the rest of it the medical bills are 7 ,400.

[1123] I mean, it's like 7407 .72, but I'm just kind of giving you know.

[1124] You're fine.

[1125] The pennies don't matter at this point.

[1126] I'm trying to get the concepts.

[1127] So the, um, who got sick?

[1128] It was, um, my daughter, um, that's in college.

[1129] She was having, um, major stomach pain.

[1130] And, uh, it took two emergency room trips.

[1131] So 4 ,000 of that is, well, it's, it's, $2 ,600, both of them are about $20 difference for two different hospital emergency rooms trip.

[1132] Okay.

[1133] And then there's a thing.

[1134] Here's a thing.

[1135] You've got some financial problems that are solvable, but more so you have a tremendous marriage problem, massive.

[1136] Do you agree with that?

[1137] I do.

[1138] Okay.

[1139] I really do.

[1140] when something is this big you have a data point and that is when you sat down with him and said hey I've been managing this all by myself and you're not helping and I have driven this car off the road into the ditch to the tune of $7 ,000 you've got a data point on how he reacted now you're eight and a half X that or eight X that eight times that much I recommend you get some, either a couple or a pastor, somebody that you trust to be a part of this conversation because it may be combustible.

[1141] Are you going to be safe?

[1142] Is he going to overreact?

[1143] Is he going to yell and scream?

[1144] He's going to hit you?

[1145] Is he going to run out of the house?

[1146] What do you think his reaction is going to be?

[1147] He's pretty much passive, aggressive.

[1148] Okay.

[1149] And, you know, I do fear emotionally more than anything, the rejection.

[1150] I think I could take better.

[1151] I think I could take better if somebody punched me. He's not, doesn't pee it up on me or anything.

[1152] Okay, you need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

[1153] ASAP.

[1154] Now, the debt thing you can work out with one of our coaches, and you actually know how to do that when the two of you get on the same page.

[1155] Hang on the line here.

[1156] I'm going to hook you up with three months of better help for free, and at least give you somebody to call right now today.

[1157] Licensed counselor, hang on the line, and Austin will get you taken care of there.

[1158] Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co -host.

[1159] So John, we wanted to let her off the hook because she had so much weight there and we'll help her offline a bunch of different ways come clean with a 61 ,000 that she hadn't told her husband about that is really derived from her being saddled with managing all the money by herself and doing it poorly.

[1160] And too ashamed to say I'm not doing it well.

[1161] and I can't do it by myself.

[1162] I ask you to help, but you didn't.

[1163] And then instead of bringing that forward, she just wallows in it and it spirals and gets worse.

[1164] So 100 % of that is a marriage issue, not a money issue.

[1165] And so I don't know.

[1166] Let's kind of reverse engineer that a little bit.

[1167] If somebody's in the earlier stages of something like that, what, okay, like the first, okay, she took him to the, uh, financial counselor and he was disinterested, but sat there.

[1168] Um, then he continues to just basically dump the entire responsibility of the household finances on her with no emotional help or help of any kind.

[1169] As a matter of fact, quite the opposite, a cloud looming over.

[1170] If you screw this up, I'm going to be mad and reject you.

[1171] Um, so what should she do?

[1172] and where, if someone's facing something similar, where in that storyline should the direction change in how she's handling this?

[1173] Well, she did it in the right order.

[1174] She went and met with a professional, one of our Ramsey coaches, who then said, I'm not going to meet with you.

[1175] You've got to do this together.

[1176] So she brought her spouse in, spells looked there and said, I'm uninterested.

[1177] And we see this happen a lot with my friends who work as personal trainers, like both couple the couple comes in they're both going to get in shape one's like i'm not doing that so now you got a choice are you going to poison yourself because it's easier because it's it basically she chose over a period of time i'm going to cash in my integrity i'm going to cash in my i'm not going to seek extra help i'm not going to raise the flag here because he's not helping right and at some point when somebody when your when your person you're married to you cashes out you have to make a choice to I'm not going to further dig a hole and punish myself I'm not going to live a more miserable life because you're not participating I'm not going to take misery plus misery here and so I'm going to control the only thing on earth I can control which are my thoughts and my actions and I'm going to do the best I can with what I got and if you're not going to help me then I'm going to get a coach to walk alongside me for the entire duration of this thing yeah I'd get a coach but I'd also then every time it comes up short, I'm going to dump it in his lap.

[1178] Every single time.

[1179] Yeah.

[1180] Every time.

[1181] The first time I'm doing the budget and we don't have enough to cover everything, I'm going to go, we're out, we're short.

[1182] Or I'm going to go put a, I'm going to get a realtor and put a sign in the yard because we can't afford this life that we're living.

[1183] Yeah.

[1184] There's, you know.

[1185] I'll put a sign in the two car windows.

[1186] But this idea that you're going to give it to me to handle and that's suddenly going to make you not have to deal with it isn't going to happen because you're going to deal with it every time it comes up short.

[1187] I'm going to dump this in your lap.

[1188] We're going to turn Mr. Passive Aggressive into all the time we're talking about this because I'm not going to carry this by myself.

[1189] I'm not going to drown just because you won't swim.

[1190] Yeah.

[1191] And I'm not going to allow your inaction to cause me to hide everything.

[1192] Right.

[1193] Out of shame.

[1194] And here's the other side.

[1195] So just put it in his lap.

[1196] Put it in his lap.

[1197] Put it in his lap.

[1198] Every single month.

[1199] I can't do this.

[1200] I'm not doing it right.

[1201] It's going in the hole.

[1202] What do you want me to do?

[1203] Because you don't like it when it goes in the hole.

[1204] I don't like it when it goes in the hole.

[1205] But I don't know how to fix it.

[1206] Can you help?

[1207] and what are we going to do what are we going to sell there's just going to go make some more money that's it there's a choosing reality part which maybe you got to go get a job is that fun no do is that right no but the reality is we got a hole yeah right if the only thing you're going to do is earn money and dump it on me you're going to have some more because we don't have enough right so you need to get two jobs or i'm going to go get a i'm going to go get a job because we don't have enough money and so you're going to have to be you're making dinner yeah if you want to eat at night and in the morning good on you because i got to go work because something's got to give here And we get stuck in the loop, man. The very first time, that would be my suggestion, the very first time it comes up short, you bring it up.

[1208] And every single time thereafter, as opposed to slowly going into debt, small cash advance, small credit card debt at a time.

[1209] And then their daughter was ill, has stomach issues.

[1210] Did that run through your mind, too?

[1211] Oh, yeah.

[1212] I wonder why she has stomach issue.

[1213] Right, that's just a chaotic home.

[1214] I mean, I assume so.

[1215] There's so much stress in the air.

[1216] So much stress.

[1217] But again, when you live a life without any margin, one of your kids pops up sick.

[1218] And that's why we do this.

[1219] We don't teach people to get out of debt so that nothing ever happens.

[1220] We teach them to get out of debt because something's going to happen.

[1221] Yeah.

[1222] Right.

[1223] You are going to have a kid call from college who needs to go to the ER in the middle of the night.

[1224] I made that call countless times.

[1225] and so I get two kinds of debt being hidden from spouses kind number one is I wanted to do what I wanted to do he wouldn't go along with this sort of hell with him I'm just going to go take out a credit card and buy Louis Vuitton right and and I want to buy something and I don't like this budgeting stuff so I'm just going to be a child and act like I'm in Congress and spend money I don't have right and open a credit card he doesn't know about so I can get it done That's kind number one.

[1226] That's a spoiled brat princess deception in financial infidelity.

[1227] But I run into this one almost as often, the hidden debt, where we're hiding debt from the spouse because the spouse said, you handle the money, they're not handling the money well, and the shame that they're not doing a good job, and therefore they're going into debt, causes them to not reveal it rather than turn and dump the whole shoebox of bills right back in his lap and go, hey, buddy, turn off Monday night football.

[1228] You got to help because I can't do this.

[1229] And you're going, you're going to whine and cry and carry on if I do it wrong.

[1230] So I'm out.

[1231] I'm out.

[1232] Or you're spending more money than we have and you don't seem to get that.

[1233] I'm not paying any more bills.

[1234] Yep.

[1235] I'm not sending the money anymore because I'm not going to sit over here and carry 100 % of the stress of this entire freaking household while you just go off to work.

[1236] And you cash your paycheck that you got this week.

[1237] It's not like, ain't your mama.

[1238] I'm your wife.

[1239] That's right.

[1240] And so there's the adjustment there, but that's the two kinds of deception I find.

[1241] And actually, I think the Louis Vuitton one is actually a lot more evil, that version to me. Absolutely.

[1242] And this is shame -based.

[1243] And that one's arrogance and pride -based.

[1244] But both are deception.

[1245] The shame's heavy, man. It'll bury you if you're not careful.

[1246] It's real.

[1247] It's heavy.

[1248] Yeah.

[1249] And - Makes you do things you would normally do, but I think it's about standing up and saying, I'm worth more than this life.

[1250] Yeah.

[1251] No. Not doing it.

[1252] Jake is with us and Jake is in Indianapolis.

[1253] Hi, Jake.

[1254] How can we help?

[1255] Hi.

[1256] So let me give you some context before I ask my question.

[1257] Quick.

[1258] My long -term girlfriend and I have recently graduated.

[1259] We each have about $100 ,000 in student loans.

[1260] I'm all in and paying it off in two to three years.

[1261] I'm excited to get to tackle this beast.

[1262] she's more excited about the new likelihood of getting engaged in Mary.

[1263] We've had this dream talk that you guys mention quite often about money, and she's questionably on board with paying off the debt.

[1264] I say questionable because historically she's not been great with money and kind of avoiding around taking action despite our discussions and my offering help.

[1265] So my question is, am I wrong to think we should wait a year or so before getting engaged so we can both pay off a chunk and kind of show that we're both committed and being on the same page.

[1266] It's not, it has nothing to do with both.

[1267] You're trying to test her to see if she's worthy of engagement.

[1268] That's bull crap.

[1269] Yeah.

[1270] You need to go talk to somebody as a couple?

[1271] Yeah, no way.

[1272] Nope.

[1273] What, yeah, I agree with John.

[1274] You should go talk to somebody as a couple because, hey, she's not going to change by getting engaged.

[1275] And she's not going to change by you making her pass a test to get engaged.

[1276] That's a false box to check.

[1277] Neither one of those are there.

[1278] She's going to change when she decides that it's as important as you think it is.

[1279] And until you're aligned on that, you should not get engaged.

[1280] But I'm not going to have her pass a test to get engaged.

[1281] You're going to do that when she wants to have a baby.

[1282] Well, you've got to pass my mom tests.

[1283] And then when she wants to buy a house, we don't test our marriage partners.

[1284] We walk alongside them.

[1285] Yeah.

[1286] And so, yeah, she's got a, but I agree that you shouldn't go forward with marriage until you get this figured out and get aligned.

[1287] Because your values aren't aligned.

[1288] You're not aligned.

[1289] You're going to have a long life trying to make this happen.

[1290] It's not going to happen.

[1291] So you guys need to get aligned and then you need to get aligned and get married.

[1292] As soon as you're aligned, regardless of the debt, as soon as you're aligned.

[1293] But you're not aligned right now.

[1294] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1295] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, personalities, my co -host today.

[1296] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

[1297] Harry is in Pittsburgh.

[1298] Hi, Harry, how are you?

[1299] Hi, good.

[1300] How are you guys doing?

[1301] Better than we deserve.

[1302] What's up?

[1303] So my wife and I recently finished paying off all of our debt, and we have our emergency fund fully fully.

[1304] Wait a go.

[1305] How's that feel?

[1306] Thank you.

[1307] It feels amazing.

[1308] I couldn't even explain how good it feel.

[1309] Amen.

[1310] Love it.

[1311] Good for you.

[1312] Thank you.

[1313] Yeah, and now I guess we're looking ahead at new goals, and one of those being, potential homeownership and and basically my question is you know would it be better to do the 15 -year mortgage or just save up and pay for a house and cash well it's always better to pay in cash period now then what tempers that answer is um this is one of the few things on the air or in our teachings that I answer that I'm going to do it one way and I'm going to give you an option of doing it the other way.

[1314] I do everything we teach.

[1315] Everything.

[1316] And I don't borrow money ever for anything no matter what.

[1317] So if Sharon and I were asking this question, we would simply have to wait.

[1318] We're building a house right now.

[1319] There was no chance we were building that house unless we had the cash, period, because we just do not borrow money.

[1320] We will never be in debt again.

[1321] I haven't been in debt in 30 years.

[1322] We'll never be there again, ever.

[1323] Okay.

[1324] Now, when people call in on the air we say as you know harry because you've referenced it uh we're we don't yell at you for a 15 year fixed rate mortgage where the payments know more than a fourth of your take home pay and then you turn around and have the goal that the average baby step millionaire following the ramsie stuff has their home paid off in 10 .2 years average meaning some do it slower some do it faster because the sooner you get your home paid off the sooner you're not paying the bank the sooner you're putting that money into investments and the sooner you reach millionaire or two millionaire or five millionaire right and that's the goal that's where we're headed so all of that to say if you did take out a mortgage the way you're asking the question i would want to take out the least possible and pay it off the fastest possible at a minimum 15 year might be it but it sounds like with you guys it might be something else and then i step back and i say okay how far out are we like i know one couple saved up the money to pay cash for a house in three years.

[1325] If you can do that, then save up and pay cash.

[1326] If it's going to take you eight years.

[1327] If we kept the intensity, we, you know, that was such a horrible part of our life that I think just the idea of going into it again for a house is very uncomfortable for us.

[1328] And that's why I wanted to make sure we're not going to wreck ourselves as both of us.

[1329] Okay.

[1330] Okay.

[1331] Because, I mean, yeah, sometimes one person is like completely panic attacked about debt like me and the other ones not as they're, they go along, but they're not not as worried about it.

[1332] So, um, uh, so what's your household income?

[1333] Uh, about 100 ,000.

[1334] Okay.

[1335] And what size home are you thinking about buying price range wise?

[1336] Um, in our area, we were looking around 300 ,000.

[1337] Okay.

[1338] And what do you have now saved towards it?

[1339] Anything?

[1340] um 40 ,000 okay all right and so you need 260 ,000 to pay cash out of a hundred a year and so if you put yeah you know if you put uh I don't know 50 of that you're going to be there in five years right I guess you know the other thing I could do and what I was doing but while we were paying off debt is I was working extra so our income used to be higher because I was doing DoorDash and uberete and things like that when I was off to try and accelerate everything.

[1341] How old are you guys?

[1342] There was 25.

[1343] Okay.

[1344] All right.

[1345] Yeah, I would probably get a really good strong down payment in your situation, and I'd be just fine with you guys taking out a small mortgage and then having a five -year plan to pay it off.

[1346] Now, is pausing retirement smart to do that?

[1347] If you're going to do it in three years, but you're not going to do it in three years.

[1348] Okay.

[1349] It's pausing retirement to pay cash for a house?

[1350] smart yeah yeah if you're going to do it in three years or four years but if you're if it's going this is going to take you guys five years because i we do not recommend gazelle intensity all the way through the end of this and put you on a five year plan more than you've already done of door dashing just to no i wouldn't i wouldn't if i mean i would because i don't borrow money, but, but, you know, or I'd buy less house and do a step -up plan.

[1351] You know, I'd go buy me a $150 ,000 house, which ain't much, right?

[1352] Some kind of dump in Pittsburgh.

[1353] That's what it would be probably.

[1354] I don't know.

[1355] I guess it would be.

[1356] And so, but I'd get in there and at least get in there and then go do it again, then go do it again.

[1357] That's kind of what we've done, too.

[1358] We did that with cars.

[1359] I was driving a piece of crap that was worth $100 and then, you know, then I got a $2 ,000 car, and then I got an $8 ,000 car, and then, you know, every time I just, because, you know, but you could, at least I had a car, and you can kind of do that plan here, too, either one of those at work, but any of the, none of these answers are wrong, Harry, because they're all heading in the right direction.

[1360] What's wrong is taking out a 30 -year mortgage, um, and promising you're going to pay it, and the payment's a huge chunk of your take -home pay, and you can't breathe, and you go, oh, because real estate prices are high and I'm a whiny millennial, you know, and give me a break, you know, no, that's just bull crap because we have actual stud millennials who pay cash for things all the time or pay off their debts all the time, so it's doable, it's just, but we have this, when there's systemic problems with the economy, yeah, right, you're stuck, you're so stuck, but, you know, because we're not like the baby boomers who bought their houses for three buckets of strawberries.

[1361] And so, yeah.

[1362] Yeah.

[1363] It's, oh, God, the whining is just incessant.

[1364] But yeah, you're not whining here.

[1365] I'm not making fun of you.

[1366] But this is the crap we deal with in the social media world.

[1367] So, yeah, have at it, man. If you want to do five, but you need to have realistic numbers.

[1368] How fast can you get?

[1369] I mean, if you do $70 ,000 a year, it's going to take you three and a half years.

[1370] If you do $50 ,000, it's going to take you five years.

[1371] Just do the 260 divided by some number out of your heart.

[1372] hundred and then how much door dashing do you all want to do how badly do you want to do this i mean you got little kids at home she's going to be sick of you being gone all the time how far do you stretch this out what level of price are you willing to pay and and or do we you know scale down the house price and move 40 miles further out of town so that we buy about the same house for a 200 instead of 300 maybe that's a way to do it i don't know there's maybe some other choices you can make here that gets you going but but no i would not try to do something you know for 10 years We're going to have no life.

[1373] So one time we pay cash for house, and it's the perfect house.

[1374] By then the target will have moved.

[1375] Yeah, and I think it's just coming to terms.

[1376] If you're all going to sign up for a mortgage, let's put it in a blood oath that this isn't going to be a gateway drug to just barren more money again.

[1377] Yeah.

[1378] And let's say, okay, we're going to do it for this one thing, and just to get us a house, and we've got a five -year plan to pay it back.

[1379] We're going to be pretty diligent, but we're also going to go on dates, and we're going to get a couch and things like that.

[1380] But let's do this right, and this is not a, path to deconstruction again yeah but i mean we had one couple they they just gotten married and they made a hundred and they were telling us about they moved into this rich old ladies apartment over the top of her garage um and they were a brand new married couple he cut her grass and uh she fed her dog and they lived there almost free and they made 100k well i mean they they saved 80 000 a year for three years and paid cash for a $250 ,000 house in three years, and they were 25 years old, you know, and so that, that's not a bad plan, but, but doing that for 10 years is different than doing it for three.

[1381] And, um, and they, you know, they, they found a way to make the thing work.

[1382] And, uh, uh, that's a cool story.

[1383] I like that story.

[1384] And, uh, I mean, one of them was a fireman, one of them was a teacher, you know, that's pretty neat.

[1385] And so, well, that's similar to, we moved into a residence hall for a year to pay off everything.

[1386] And we were going the other way we were so underwater but but similar yeah not everybody has that story but it was it was cool but we figured out a way yeah right yeah you scratch and claw and fight and do weird things it's a weird real estate market out there and i'll make fun of you guys but also tell you it's i know it's tough yeah but here's the thing you can either scream at the wind or you can adjust your sales this is the ramsie show our scripture day second corinthians one four he comforts us all in our troubles so we can comfort others when we When they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort.

[1387] God has given us.

[1388] Jordan Peterson says, face the demands of life voluntarily.

[1389] Respond to a challenge instead of bracing for catastrophe.

[1390] Amberly is with us in Concord, New Hampshire.

[1391] Hey, Amberley, how are you?

[1392] I'm good.

[1393] How are you?

[1394] Better than I deserve.

[1395] What's up?

[1396] Well, my husband and I have made a series of really bad, financial mistakes and um we were just wondering if we should sell our house this year or next year what kind of mistakes well we were house poor um we bought a duplex that um you know we're it's overwhelming we have to we pay about three grand a month and uh we only make about 60 grand and gross.

[1397] So why would you wait a year?

[1398] You're drowning.

[1399] I know.

[1400] What is it you're waiting on?

[1401] Well, I'm the main person who does the budget, and I was just, for some reason it seems like we make, we do somewhat make a little bit more money.

[1402] It's by staying here, but I feel like it's wrong.

[1403] Like, I feel like it would be better if we can move.

[1404] I'm confused.

[1405] It feels like you make more money.

[1406] Math is not a feeling.

[1407] Do you make more money or not?

[1408] Well, we make 60 grand growth, and then we also get 2 ,500 a month from the other side.

[1409] And so, I don't know.

[1410] I know we probably should, Emmer, we're...

[1411] Do you not like being a landlord, Emberley?

[1412] No. Okay.

[1413] I don't.

[1414] Yeah, be honest about the problem.

[1415] I can hear, it's just, this thing's a brick around your neck.

[1416] Yeah.

[1417] Your sanity is not worth it.

[1418] Yeah.

[1419] Yeah.

[1420] It's a stupid house.

[1421] Yeah, it is.

[1422] And we found out that our, Our tenant has been running the water 24 -7.

[1423] And so, sorry, I'm just a little overwhelming being on the air, sorry.

[1424] It's okay.

[1425] You're good.

[1426] We've never lost a patient.

[1427] You're okay.

[1428] Yeah.

[1429] And I want to, and we're in this market where I know that we could technically, you know, this house would appreciate, but.

[1430] Doesn't matter.

[1431] I do want to get it.

[1432] It doesn't matter.

[1433] It's not fun.

[1434] no everything in this conversation says you're not having fun no this house has not been a blessing it's been a curse yeah and TikTok told you that the way to wealth is to buy a duplex rent the other side they'll pay your mortgage and you're gonna and now it's not fun now it's not fun you found out TikTok was wrong oh there's a shock yeah yeah yeah so I mean should put it on the market like next month or i mean by friday yeah friday friday friday friday sounds good okay i'm not kidding okay i'm not kidding if i have something i own that i hate as bad as you hate this even if i made a mistake and i'm ashamed to admit the mistake i'm still going to admit the mistake i want to kill it as soon as i can kill it i want it in my rearview mirror as a distant memory of dumb things i've done otherwise every time you drive up the driveway you're going i don't feel really good about me yeah and you can't be the wife you want to be you can't be the mom you want to be you can't be the employee you want to be it affects every every squirrence of your life you're not you're not having fun we can hear it and it's not just you're scared to be on the air it's your whole situation right yeah I mean if you had a house payment you could afford you could breathe again you're having trouble getting a full lung full of air right now yeah it's overwhelming I mean, I'm scared.

[1435] Yeah, we can hear it.

[1436] And it's not being mean to you.

[1437] I've been exactly where you are.

[1438] That's how I can identify it.

[1439] I smell it.

[1440] I know what it feels like.

[1441] And so the thing is that the faster you act on this, the quicker you're going to get peace.

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] And peace is really our goal here.

[1444] You got plenty of time to buy a different house, plenty of time to make different real estate decisions, sell this thing, and go run an apartment or something for six months and breathe a little bit.

[1445] And then slow down and make a better real estate decision the next time you move into real estate.

[1446] You can do this.

[1447] Okay.

[1448] So go to Ramsey Solutions .com and click on real estate ELPs for Ramsey trusted real estate agents, people we trust that we have vetted and they'll help you get the thing on the market and help you get it sold ASAP.

[1449] That's what I would do if I were in your shoes.

[1450] I like real estate, but I hate real estate.

[1451] Isn't that interesting?

[1452] Because I see what it does to people when you do it wrong, including me. It leaves a mark.

[1453] It's not fun.

[1454] Alejandro is with us in Miami.

[1455] What's up, Alejandro?

[1456] Oh, excuse me. Sorry, I just drank water.

[1457] No trouble.

[1458] Yes, my question is, is it worth it to go to college?

[1459] Now, the reason why I'm asking that is because I have a, you know, my brother.

[1460] He's basically studying in the U .S. And he's been going to college for basically eight years now because he's getting his doctors.

[1461] Now, he's a, you know, straight -A student and everything.

[1462] And my worrisome is that his debt is five digits.

[1463] So, no, yeah, it's five digits, basically.

[1464] So he's going from like, let's say from 9 ,000 to 60 ,000.

[1465] and, like, the amount of debt that he's getting is ridiculous, right?

[1466] Are we asking about you or him?

[1467] This is more for him than it is for myself.

[1468] Well, he's already made his decision.

[1469] Right, right.

[1470] But what I wanted to know is that, like, from what I see in the market overall, I see employers basically asking more than what they could give off, as in, like, a story that he was telling me is that, oh hey there's a position that they like his degree but they're only offering like 70 ,000 instead of the range that the college promised them and that's kind of like you know what is what is his degree going to be in to continue the sports medicine okay and so he's going to end up how much in debt to do sports medicine 60 60 000 okay and this is a four -year degree um this is uh it's it's becoming eight he did four then he got he got his master oh so he's getting a phd in sports medicine yes yeah well that's not necessary okay in that field so the answer but but the problem is you cannot extrapolate that to is it okay to go to college because yes it's okay to go to college college is worth the expense if you pay cash and study something that's actually usable in the marketplace the problem was your brother overdead it he'd got two more degrees than he needed to function in that in that space or at least one more that he could afford and if he wants to move up then he gets his master's degree do not need a PhD in sports medicine to function in the sports medicine space yeah unless maybe if you're going to go work for an NFL team or something they may want you to have a doctor by your name but who knows I don't even know the particulars of that but the college is going to give you a range and when they give you a salary range those things are skewed by if they're taking numbers from San Francisco and New York to Nebraska.

[1471] It's all over the place.

[1472] And so don't blame the college.

[1473] He's got to do his own research and say, what does it pay in the area that I want to live?

[1474] Yeah, I wouldn't go to school eight years for a $70 ,000 job.

[1475] I agree with you, Alejandro.

[1476] That's not worth it.

[1477] Absolutely not.

[1478] And you can get lots of $70 ,000 jobs for four -year degrees and lots of $100 ,000 jobs going to trade school and being a welder.

[1479] So if you're just looking at return on investment, the trades are awesome.

[1480] There's a gap right now in the marketplace, and they pay they pay beautifully.

[1481] But to say college is completely never worth it is an incorrect, not a factual statement.

[1482] That's not a factual statement.

[1483] Getting a degree in stupidity, left -handed puppetry or German polka history, and then thinking you're going to end up with being anything but a barista is ridiculous.

[1484] And so that's dumb, but you can't take somebody doing.

[1485] something stupid like that and saying all higher ed is bad.

[1486] That's just not true.

[1487] No, the date is 60.

[1488] My kids are going to go to college.

[1489] Yeah, mine too.

[1490] Mine did.

[1491] Yeah.

[1492] There you go.

[1493] That puts us our of the Ramsey show in the books.

[1494] We'll be back with you before.

[1495] You know it.

[1496] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace.

[1497] And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace.

[1498] Christ Jesus.

[1499] If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization.

[1500] Because whatever you lead can only grow as much as you do.

[1501] I know.

[1502] from experience.

[1503] I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years, and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you on the Entree Leadership podcast.

[1504] I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out how to overcome challenges within your organization.

[1505] One episode could change your business.

[1506] Check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or on the Ramsey Network app.