183 - Here We Back Are

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Let me do this.

[2] Let me put this away.

[3] And then that's your phone is off.

[4] Okay.

[5] I'm going to scoot so I can see your face.

[6] I know.

[7] I'll go.

[8] Good.

[9] At.

[10] Welcome back, everyone.

[11] It's season five.

[12] We all took two months off together.

[13] What did you guys do on your spring break?

[14] My God.

[15] Was it the best?

[16] Did you drive all around?

[17] Oh, my God.

[18] Did you have the top down and listen to Britney Spears?

[19] Did you flip off cops?

[20] You nut.

[21] What are you?

[22] doing don't do that that's crazy um gosh so it's been two months no yes yeah since we recorded a real episode two full months and that was wild and i missed it it had been three years since we had taken a vacation that's right since the very beginning of this podcast yeah we had not taken a meaningful break sure we went home for i went home for christmas yeah um once or twice and we take a week off here and there and put up a live episode.

[23] Sure.

[24] Which, by the way, we also had to do work on those shows, too.

[25] So it's not like we didn't work on those.

[26] Yes, the live episodes are harder because you have to stand up the whole time and wear an outfit.

[27] And be charming as best as you can.

[28] Keep an audience with you for a low about two hours.

[29] Sometimes four hours.

[30] I mean, it depends on what city we're in and how long we want to talk to those people.

[31] And listen, if the hometown goes long, then the hometown goes long.

[32] We just stand there.

[33] But here we back our.

[34] Yeah, here we are back.

[35] I should let everyone know.

[36] I just took a shot of Paul Holder's McClellan 12.

[37] That's right.

[38] We're here at the exactly right studios that we share with Billy Jensen and Paul Holzer Murder Squad.

[39] We let them record here.

[40] We share the space.

[41] We lovingly share the space like family where you steal people's stuff and don't tell them about it.

[42] Because I went over to look at our alcohol selection and I see hidden behind a thing of Knob Creek.

[43] Oh, a little bottle of McClellan, Twitter.

[44] I'm like, no. No, Paul.

[45] You don't hide.

[46] I pay right here.

[47] It ain't that way.

[48] I've taken a shot.

[49] That's right.

[50] And then Jay goes, he won't notice.

[51] Jay's sitting in his kitchen office.

[52] I just stole a cop's whiskey.

[53] He's retired.

[54] He can't do shit.

[55] That's true.

[56] I feel badass.

[57] What do you want to share?

[58] I have a whole thing of, just, you know, updates.

[59] I mean, two months worth of updates.

[60] This is going to be the longest update section we've ever done.

[61] Let me just take another shot.

[62] Hi.

[63] How are you?

[64] Okay, well, here's some news.

[65] We are doing.

[66] Paul, we drank all your McClellan's.

[67] Don't be mad.

[68] Don't be mad.

[69] And if you are, that's fine, too.

[70] You're allowed to have your emotions, but you're fired.

[71] As a fired person.

[72] And then we hire you back.

[73] That's right.

[74] At a lower rate.

[75] Do it.

[76] What's the most exciting thing, I guess?

[77] Live shows.

[78] Should we talk about live shows?

[79] Sure.

[80] So we're doing the Santa Barbara weekend, my favorite weekend.

[81] Yes.

[82] You can go and get all the information there.

[83] It's November 1st and Sunday.

[84] second it's going to be freaking awesome it's going to be like like murderino con is that a thing yes it's going to be a small um beautifully appointed murderino con yeah where we get to hang out with uh roughly how many couple thousand a couple thousand people who feel like hanging out in a weekend in november in san Barbara in Santa Barbara watching live shows live podcasts from the exactly right network yeah um you know arts and crafts and then you guys are going to have your own meetups too which I think is going to be great.

[85] Like, you know, everyone's going to be staying.

[86] There's, like, participating hotels, so you're just going to be, like, overrun by your friends.

[87] It's going to be great.

[88] That's right.

[89] And friends you haven't met yet.

[90] That's right.

[91] I have a pitch.

[92] And listen, Marty's totally down for this.

[93] What if Marty and Jen?

[94] I already have, like, weird chills.

[95] No. I know.

[96] I'll say no now, but keep going.

[97] Host a bingo night.

[98] Just absolutely not.

[99] Ben said he'll emce it so that anyone can understand what they're saying.

[100] And the whole time, neither of them can hear anything.

[101] So they're going to be yelling what?

[102] You know what?

[103] It's going to be a silent bingo.

[104] I shouldn't have said no, before you got the idea out.

[105] That's my bad.

[106] That's fair.

[107] Why do you think I'm saving it for recording and not telling you in a text, even though I was so excited about it?

[108] You know what?

[109] Here's what I'm thinking.

[110] It's only mid -August.

[111] Yeah.

[112] That means we have three months to try to convince Jim to come down for this weekend.

[113] That's, it could happen.

[114] He should come.

[115] Marty's already coming no matter what.

[116] Of course Marty's coming.

[117] But Jim is the anti -Marty.

[118] He's really, he is fiercely private like my dogs.

[119] If they get in like a brawl, like a bar room brawl.

[120] He and Jim?

[121] Jim would beat the shit out of skinny Marty.

[122] Listen, Jim has spent his life beating the shit out of people.

[123] I heard some stories.

[124] We, just as a sidebar, when we went on our 10 -day Hawaiian vacation, we forced my dad to go on.

[125] He won't even go on a Hawaiian, a tropical Hawaiian vacation.

[126] I don't, I don't need that.

[127] I don't like this.

[128] I heard some stories.

[129] Yeah, he's a, he's a street fighter.

[130] Jim Gilgare.

[131] Good for him.

[132] But I'm sure he loved Marty and I'm sure he might be into this hang.

[133] I don't know.

[134] Well, my dad is a badass too.

[135] One time he and his friends dressed up like the Pointer Sisters and did a lip sync.

[136] I'm so excited.

[137] So I feel like it's an even fight.

[138] This could be an anything can happen situation.

[139] My friend Doug who's going to be DJing his incredible French pop where he also projects the videos, the old French pop music.

[140] Love it.

[141] He wants to do a karaoke night too.

[142] He's obsessed with karaoke.

[143] Amazing.

[144] Isn't that great?

[145] Yeah, totally.

[146] Okay.

[147] I think we're going to have all kinds of cool things planned.

[148] I personally love the bingo idea genuinely.

[149] Yeah.

[150] Because you know how I feel about games like that.

[151] I think that's the best.

[152] How about an uno tournament?

[153] I have uno in my purse right fucking now.

[154] Uno to the death.

[155] I also wouldn't be against a trivia night, which clearly I've pitched many times and no one answers when I say it.

[156] So I don't think anybody else is really interested in organizing it.

[157] Vince will do it.

[158] Yeah, but I mean, you'd have to have to.

[159] like write questions and stuff.

[160] It's like a whole thing.

[161] Okay.

[162] But look, look, Stephen, get your pen and paper out.

[163] We can do it all.

[164] What we're saying is, won't you join us on this amazing weekend, Santa Barbara?

[165] My favorite weekend .com gives you all the details, etc. See if you can come.

[166] And then we're also doing our next show after that is a UK and Ireland tour.

[167] Yeah.

[168] And we added a Dublin show on November 25th and a London show on November 28th.

[169] So there's going to be two shows in both those.

[170] There's also Manchester and Glasgow.

[171] I I don't know what's sold out yet, but you can go get those tickets.

[172] Cool.

[173] And it's going to be really fun.

[174] Yes.

[175] Yeah, there's still tickets left for the UK and Ireland.

[176] That's right.

[177] They're different places.

[178] They're not the same.

[179] Deal with it.

[180] Yes.

[181] We know.

[182] We know because we went there and we're wrong about things.

[183] Never.

[184] This is how you learn.

[185] This is how you grow.

[186] Take another shot.

[187] The fan cult is fucking booming.

[188] Our website in general and a fan cult have become next fucking level.

[189] My favorite murderer .com.

[190] Check it out.

[191] But the fan cult is going to now have an exclusive merch store where you're going to get shit that you can only get on the fan cults.

[192] Yeah.

[193] All new stuff.

[194] It's going to be fucking awesome.

[195] It's very specifically developed with you and mine, fan cult members for you and mine.

[196] Yeah, we were very passionate about what we picked out.

[197] Yes.

[198] And we're also doing videos every fan cult Friday.

[199] There's one up right now that anyone can watch with Stephen and Jay of a would you rather.

[200] And then there's also we're doing like unboxings and we're doing.

[201] question and answers and would you rather's and it's a lot of fun so check that out my favorite runner dot com .gov and then i finally want to talk about exactly right network real quick oh yeah the percast their episode this week is they talked to the rock stars of the trap and release community how fucking cool is that i love it so much oh you're doing like a tv guide for exactly right right that's right great idea okay tv guide season five of the fall line is up you can hear episode one on our feed and make sure you subscribe to the fall line.

[202] It's a fucking great season and really important.

[203] Yeah.

[204] They do amazing work on the fall line.

[205] Jensen and Holes murder squad, the boozehounds.

[206] They have Morgan Bauer, her missing person's case this week.

[207] This podcast will kill you.

[208] Is doing a wildlife disease called chytidomycosis, probably.

[209] And all the chytidromicosis fans out in the audience are like, what?

[210] She said it wrong.

[211] They're doing our And tell us who the guest this week is on Do You Need a Ride?

[212] Do you need a ride?

[213] Is it this week?

[214] No, on Monday it's our solo night ride episode.

[215] Oh, that's right.

[216] Chris and I and Stephen go out into the night.

[217] It's scary, though.

[218] Turn the lights off?

[219] Yeah, we drive around with no headlights on and we hit 16 bird scooters.

[220] No, we just had to.

[221] It's that kind of thing where when we all plan stuff out.

[222] Yeah.

[223] No one ever thinks, oh, we record everything on Monday.

[224] Like Stephen is sitting there going, well, I could record with you guys at either 11 in the morning or 8 o 'clock at night.

[225] Those are your two choices because I got stuff all day long, which is brand new and exciting.

[226] So we did an 8 o 'clock at night and then in the future we're going to record on different days than like, say, the murder squad or whatever.

[227] Oh, but do you know, Stephen had just finished recording a murder squad.

[228] This is future episodes because they had to do them all at once because Paul Holes is in town.

[229] and it's the case that I did.

[230] Yeah, the Neil Falls is the person that we talked about who you covered.

[231] The Las Vegas live show, the guy that worked at the Hoover Dam that creeped everybody out and got killed by a sex worker who picked up the gun and shot it back.

[232] They talk to her.

[233] No, they don't.

[234] Heather Saul.

[235] We had her on as a guest and that comes out sometime in the future in the next couple months.

[236] So that's kind of a teaser, teaser.

[237] They might not want us to put that in there because it's a future teaser.

[238] No, do it.

[239] But I am so excited to listen to that episode.

[240] That's incredible.

[241] Because Stephen said, oh, we just had this interesting one about a guy.

[242] They're not sure if he's a serial killer.

[243] And I was like, what's this?

[244] Like, finally break out of my own bubble.

[245] They're doing such important shit.

[246] I'd have chills if I wasn't lightly sweating in this really hot fucking office.

[247] But also, it's the cool thing about Murder Squad is because they need help.

[248] These are cold cases.

[249] They need help.

[250] So they have, you know, that guy in particular, it's so frustrating because, clearly when he attacked Heather yeah this was not the first time that he had attacked or killed anybody he had a kill kit he creeped out everybody that was anywhere near him that like there's information to be gleaned about who else this guy did it to who's people who the people who aren't being spoken for like I'm so excited to see where that goes me too yeah it's very very exciting citizen sleuths that's what he called him right yep I have one in my story today do you really I'm like really excited about it Haven't you been like chomping at the bit to do this again?

[251] I've been really excited and then I've also been really nervous about what story I'm going to come back with.

[252] Right.

[253] And as soon as I started looking like doing the research, I was like, oh, I forgot how much fucking fun.

[254] I mean, not fun.

[255] This is terrible and horrible.

[256] But I'm enjoying, like, research is so much fun.

[257] Well, it's, it feels great to have your mind occupied by something that you're genuinely fascinated by.

[258] Yeah.

[259] You're using the word fun because actually it's, you're fascinated.

[260] I'm fascinated.

[261] you're unbelievably upset yeah yeah but passionate you're passionate if passionate started with an n that was my acronym fun passion what it really stands for passionette um with a capital this is like what school must have been like for other people that enjoyed it for smart people who were encouraged right it's like writing a book report of a book I actually like but you actually read yeah and it was like into instead of me looking at the cover of silas marner and going this is about an old man for sure this we know for a fact an old man is in this book keep writing about that and just what are old men like yeah well this guy is especially bent over at the shoulder mid back area I did want to bring up a couple things that have happened while we were I was going to say out of town but that's not that's not the case and the most exciting I would say is when we were on tour last time I was in the UK.

[262] The last time we were back there.

[263] Two years?

[264] We did, Stephen, was it 2016?

[265] 2018.

[266] It was definitely 2018.

[267] I always remember the great Elvis throw -up laptop of 2018.

[268] Oh, that's right.

[269] That's how Stephen Mark's time.

[270] I blocked that out.

[271] We were in Sweden.

[272] Then I get a text from Steve and saying, hey, so Elvis throw up on my laptop and I'm taking it to the laptop doctor, but it doesn't seem to be working right now.

[273] Elvis throwing up on someone's laptop is that.

[274] height of like cat aggression oh yeah you might why not throw up into stephen's mouth Elvis he did throw okay nothing ever happened okay gross okay so we know for fact it was 2018 we had an amazing show in Manchester at a saint I want to call it St. Mark's but it was this it was a converted church cathedral gorgeous that was just bewildering to do a show and it felt amazing the audience was incredible and then after the show we had a hometown from a woman named Chloe that was among the greats truly a great storyteller a really fun person to spend time with and she tells the story of a woman named Helen McCourt who was murdered and at the end of the story she starts talking about how Helen's mother Marie is trying to get a law passed so that murderers who are convicted will not get parole if they refuse to reveal where the bodies of their victims are buried.

[275] Incredible.

[276] It's an incredible concept.

[277] It makes so much perfect logical sense and yet it's never been enacted.

[278] I don't think anywhere.

[279] And on July 5th, 2019, Marie McCourt and all the people that signed all of those petitions.

[280] Which a ton of murderinos did after we posted that episode, which is fucking incredible.

[281] Right.

[282] All kinds of people got active and let their voice be heard and they passed Helen's law.

[283] And now in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, it is the law that if you don't reveal where your victim is buried, you don't get parole.

[284] Fuck.

[285] Yes.

[286] Amazing, amazing, amazing work.

[287] Congratulations.

[288] Good job, you guys.

[289] Yeah.

[290] That's incredible.

[291] That's the kind of thing that like, how exciting to be even adjacent to that.

[292] Yeah.

[293] So great job Chloe powerful Chloe is the person who brought that to everyone's attention yeah and then of course everyone else yeah that actually got it done that was such a such exciting news to get in the middle of vacation that's when I was like ooh like I wish we were back so we could talk about this right yeah for sure so exciting then of course you know like season two of dairy girls premiered the girls who live in London Dairy Northern Ireland not Belfast no totally different town different like they don't even like each other no it's a real problem Have you been watching Euphoria on HBO?

[294] Oh, yes.

[295] I love it so much.

[296] It's so good.

[297] Friend of the show, Maude Apatow, is in it.

[298] And she's so cute and funny.

[299] Everyone is dressed up.

[300] It's Halloween.

[301] Everyone is dressed up as a sexy whatever.

[302] And she's dressed in full Bob Ross costume, full on Bob Ross drag.

[303] And I just love it so.

[304] It's just a perfect character.

[305] It's so good.

[306] And she's darling.

[307] I love it.

[308] It's such a good show.

[309] The character cat is groundbreaking.

[310] Watching the trajectory now have not watched the end.

[311] I haven't either.

[312] Okay.

[313] So I still have to watch the last episode.

[314] I'm sure there's something terrible coming for all of us.

[315] It's terrible.

[316] But I just as a girl who grew up fat, watching that girl have this renaissance is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.

[317] I love her.

[318] She's the coolest.

[319] She's gorgeous.

[320] But she's also like high.

[321] school broken.

[322] And like, I can't wait to see her.

[323] Like, I want to see her in her 20s.

[324] Oh, yeah.

[325] You know what I mean?

[326] Like, get it.

[327] Like, so finally she has it.

[328] Like, I love her.

[329] She gets all together.

[330] I want to protect her, yeah.

[331] But I love the way that show is like, here's all the different ways you can be a girl.

[332] Here's all the different versions.

[333] And here's all the different things that might happen to you.

[334] And here's the way that you don't have to be victim to it.

[335] Here's the way that you can rise up within it.

[336] I find it so I find it inspirational.

[337] I find the eye shadow, unbelievable.

[338] The one that looks like tears with the glitter.

[339] Oh, my God.

[340] These kids are so good.

[341] How about a simple neon pink top line?

[342] Dude.

[343] Just why not go for it?

[344] I'm doing it.

[345] You know, I decided to be a wig person on my break.

[346] On my summer vacation, I decided to become a wig person.

[347] Uh -huh.

[348] Maybe because of that show.

[349] And so I bought some pink wigs.

[350] Mm -hmm.

[351] And they look like wigs.

[352] Yeah.

[353] They don't look great.

[354] With the little bob like hot pink?

[355] Yeah.

[356] Sure.

[357] I just need better quality wigs, but I feel like the show is, what's the word, making me want to do stuff like that.

[358] Inspirational?

[359] Turns out I'm not 16.

[360] That's true.

[361] I'm 39.

[362] But look.

[363] That's the opposite of 16.

[364] Listen.

[365] Hey, it's all in your mind.

[366] This is, we're on a timeline that goes by so fast.

[367] The difference between 16 and 39 is a blip.

[368] I don't feel any different.

[369] I do.

[370] You're not different.

[371] None of us are.

[372] I mean, these chits are still a perky.

[373] You know what I mean?

[374] They're not going anywhere.

[375] they are not till you're almost 50 and I'm just like how are these getting lower there's nowhere else for them to go yeah the wrinkles in the morning are staying a little longer in my chest there will be a day there will be a day when you wake up and they don't go away that's that's what happened that was also from gaining weight I got this red line where I was like what's this a cut and it just was the like double chin line Jesus on the chin guess what we're here to stay yeah moving in this is the pain we're renting property?

[376] The pain has arrived.

[377] Good night.

[378] Whatever, motherfuckers.

[379] Here's a great pubic hair to make it even worse.

[380] Goodbye.

[381] Be more upset.

[382] Is there anything else that we've, that we've missed?

[383] That's all I want to talk about.

[384] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[385] Absolutely.

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[404] Goodbye.

[405] I want to say, okay, so I don't know who's first.

[406] And I know Stephen knows, but I feel like we, I saw him reaching for his fucking like.

[407] Like, I know, I know, I know.

[408] But I feel like we can do whatever we want.

[409] I feel like this is like a new season.

[410] It's so true.

[411] Or we could do whatever we want.

[412] So let's pick who we want to go first and then let's ask Stephen if we're right.

[413] Okay.

[414] Let's throw the runes.

[415] Do you want to go first?

[416] I don't care.

[417] Do you want to go last?

[418] I don't care.

[419] Mine's long and sad.

[420] Okay.

[421] And yours is.

[422] Mine's sad but hopeful.

[423] Yes.

[424] Then I'm going to go first.

[425] Is that okay?

[426] Absolutely.

[427] Okay.

[428] Okay.

[429] Stephen?

[430] Well, if we went off of our Mary Vincent episode, then you would go first.

[431] Great.

[432] Which technically is last week.

[433] But if we went off the last time we recorded.

[434] Too much information.

[435] Yeah, that's it.

[436] Oh, can I just say a really quick thing about the Mary Vincent episode?

[437] First of all, the fact that I, thank you everybody for voting and giving the shit.

[438] So, yeah, in the fan call, we had a vote for the top three episodes, and those are the past three episodes that we've posted.

[439] It was so fucking cool to see what you guys liked the most.

[440] Yeah.

[441] There was a couple people who piped up on Twitter to argue those where I wanted to go, hey, friend, that's not a hard decision.

[442] It's called voting.

[443] Yeah.

[444] Get out there now and in 2020.

[445] That's right.

[446] But I would like to say this about Mary Vincent, who is a living, breathing human being today.

[447] If that story moved you, if you were inspired by her strength and her fortitude and everything about that story, please donate to a little.

[448] local victims rights charity.

[449] Because I think about that sometimes, you know, there's lots of people who like to ask us about victims and comedy and murder and all these different things.

[450] Somehow, you know, like we are supposed to answer for all of that when we just are talking about true crime.

[451] But with things like that, when we are talking about real people and living people, those people do something in their name to make them feel like this is the, this is the, this is good intended show that it is right um or at least if you if you feel like you want to i guess is what i want to say yeah it's a good way to uh acknowledge what that person went through and what people who didn't survive went through and to you know it seems like you're just throwing money on it but you're you're helping those people by doing that also i don't know who came up with that phrase throwing money at it because money is what makes things go it's what makes things work it's a great it's a great solution and it's what charities need when they're trying to help other people who go through really difficult things.

[452] So if you can do it and we realize that these days you either can do it or you can't, but if you can, that'd be a great thing to do in Mary Vincent's name.

[453] Or you can volunteer.

[454] Ooh, I'm scared.

[455] I'm nervous about this one because I want to come back with the bang.

[456] This is one I didn't want to do live.

[457] Minnesota's most famous crime, arguably Jacob Wetterling.

[458] Oh, wow.

[459] Yeah.

[460] Yes.

[461] Yep.

[462] Let's do it.

[463] This is one of, this is the story that I started to research and there's so many twists and turns in it.

[464] And of course, a lot of that information is from the incredible podcast in the dark, hosted by Madeline Barron.

[465] She's incredible.

[466] The first season of In the Dark is about Jacob Watterling and The Disappearance, and it is fucking incredible.

[467] Yeah.

[468] Second season's insane, too.

[469] She's so talented.

[470] The team that makes it so talented.

[471] And I got information from APM and from a blog called by a woman named Joy Baker, but I'll get into her later.

[472] Okay.

[473] So, all right.

[474] Here we go.

[475] Eleven -year -old Jacob Wedderling was a totally normal American kid on a fucking totally normal Midwestern fall weekend.

[476] Picture it leaves.

[477] It's beautiful in 1989.

[478] So he's 11 years old, 1989.

[479] I think I must have been nine years old.

[480] So totally fucking remember this happening.

[481] And St. Joseph, Minnesota is a totally normal American small town.

[482] It's just an hour from Minneapolis.

[483] The population is just about 2 ,500 people.

[484] So it's a small town, Midwest town.

[485] It's considered safe.

[486] Kids are allowed to play out on their own, left to their own devices until dark, which we all were.

[487] And I want to stress for our younger listeners that helicopter parenting is around because of stuff like this story.

[488] Yes.

[489] They had to be helicopter parents because they realized all the crazy things that happen when you let your kid just go live their lives on their own.

[490] Go be in the world.

[491] That's right.

[492] Yeah.

[493] So on the outskirts of town.

[494] in a less populated, a little more rural area, dirt roads, cornfields, long driveways, that kind of thing.

[495] But it's not like, it's not secluded.

[496] It's just outside the town of the small little town.

[497] At the end of a cul -de -sac live the Wetterling family.

[498] Patty and Jerry Wetterling had four kids.

[499] And Jacob, he's born February 17, 1978.

[500] He's the second oldest.

[501] And on the evening of Sunday, October 22nd, 1989, Patty and Jerry are out at a function.

[502] And the kids are home alone, which is a totally normal thing back then.

[503] Constant.

[504] And since there wasn't school the next day, a friend of Jacobs is over.

[505] And the two of them, along with Jacob's little brother, it was just 10, they want to go run a movie at the local Tom Thumb.

[506] It's about a 15 -minute bike right away.

[507] So they call Patty to get permission.

[508] She's like, no fucking way.

[509] And then they're like, you know what we should do?

[510] They call back and ask to speak with dad.

[511] And he's like, okay.

[512] But they're worried that the thing that they're worried about is that they'll get hit by a car because they live in this rural area.

[513] There's no streetlights, that sort of thing.

[514] So they make them bring a flashlight, wear a reflective vest.

[515] Like, that's their worry then.

[516] Right.

[517] You know?

[518] Because that's, that was the worst that could happen in their, in their knowledge.

[519] Right.

[520] Yeah.

[521] And so they let the kids go.

[522] So it's just around 9 p .m. It's just getting dark.

[523] The boys leave the wetterling home.

[524] And on their right at the store, they hear some wrestling in an overgrown area, but they don't think anything of it.

[525] And on their way back, though, it's now dark.

[526] And they rented naked gun.

[527] which is like the most normal fucking 1989 thing to do and just as the boys are about to ride by a long gravel driveway a man steps out of the shadows pointing a revolver at them it's just so crazy because you think of like a kid being alone as the thing you need to worry about not with two people right well and that's where the buddy system kind of broke down right that's where that's how helicopter parenting came in where it's like if there's not a mom within you know, eyesight, then you have to figure out where another mom is.

[528] Yeah.

[529] It turns out kids need to be watched and kept safe from predators, but we didn't know that back then.

[530] Right.

[531] Well, in this idea of predators, I think that was kind of the dirty secret.

[532] Yeah.

[533] That was the thing people weren't talking about.

[534] Because it was inappropriate or it was wrong or whatever.

[535] Or like not in our area.

[536] There's not pedophiles in our area.

[537] Now, of course, we have what's the one that you can find a pedophile in your neighborhood?

[538] PervNet or whatever.

[539] It's like they're just dotted everywhere.

[540] They're everywhere.

[541] Yeah, but we didn't know that back then.

[542] It was an innocent time.

[543] It was.

[544] Um, so the man has his face obscured by a black stocking cap.

[545] He is short and stocky and in a raspy voice that one of the boys later describes as sounding like he has a cold.

[546] He orders the boys to throw their bikes into a little ditch and then live face down on the ground.

[547] He asked them how old they are.

[548] And when Trevor, the little brother, says 10, the man tells him to run into this kind of nearby wooded area and not look back or else he'd get shot.

[549] So, Trevor takes off running.

[550] Then the man forces Jacob and his friend Aaron to face him, and he tells Aaron to run away and not look back or he'll be shot as well.

[551] And Jacob Wedderling is now alone with the man. And when Trevor and Aaron finally reached the woods and look back, Jacob and the man have vanished.

[552] The boys run home.

[553] They tell a neighbor what happened and the search begins.

[554] But only the abandoned bikes are found and the search is called off by 3 a .m. and doesn't start back up until the next morning at 8 a .m. Oh, no. So there's all this fucking, you know, this like police fucked up.

[555] It's so horrible, all the problems that went on with this investigation.

[556] But you can hear all about that in the dark.

[557] I just kind of, I touch on that.

[558] Well, also, wasn't it, I mean, I haven't listened to it in the dark yet, but wasn't it a thing where these are small towns that have never dealt with anything similar to this?

[559] So to them, they don't know that thing of the first 48 hours.

[560] They don't know all of the things that now, simply by the forensic files education we've all gotten in the past 20 years.

[561] These are the things that seem standard.

[562] But back then, they didn't know.

[563] The problem with that, though, is that the FBI are called in and people who should have known stuff are called in and didn't do basic things like question surrounding neighbors for over a week, if at all, ever.

[564] You know, which is what you're supposed to do.

[565] You start in the small circle and you go out.

[566] words.

[567] I mean, that's what you we hear.

[568] Right.

[569] So they didn't do a lot of those things.

[570] And it's partly because this became such a crazy media circus.

[571] And there were so many investigators and so many different departments on it that it just became bungled.

[572] So the next day, FBI and other agencies joined the investigation.

[573] Hundreds of tips are called in and officers and volunteers conduct aerial and ground searches.

[574] The story goes fucking viral.

[575] And the search becomes the biggest search for a missing child in U .S. history.

[576] And, um, At the time, things like Amber Alert don't exist.

[577] That doesn't happen until 1996.

[578] And we covered that in episode 52, actually.

[579] And there isn't even the kind of laws necessary to deal with such rare crimes like stranger abductions, because that kind of is rare.

[580] Yeah.

[581] There's no national registry of sex offenders.

[582] So there's no way for investigators to even monitor or track sex offenders, even a town away.

[583] So, you know, everyone sees Jacob's sweet face on the flyers.

[584] It's on pizza boxes.

[585] It's sent through the mail And everyone, you know, feels like he could be their kid And the horrifying way in which he was taken Really strikes people and scares them So they rally around finding him They wear white ribbons pinned to their shirts They form mile long human chains Just to pray for his return Because he just feels so fucking helpless probably Yeah And I fucking totally remember this By the end of the first week Nearly 100 officers from various agencies are working the case.

[586] The searches are putting in 18 -hour shifts.

[587] And Patty, Wetterling, says at one point, she looked out her window and the people all wearing black, all the investigators, they were searching shoulder to shoulder, you know, doing that ground sweep.

[588] And she said it reminded her of a Stephen King movie.

[589] It's just so horrifying.

[590] Yeah.

[591] But somehow, it took more than a week before authorities began to question neighbors and fully canvassed the neighborhood.

[592] And that's known to be one of the most crucial moves in an investigation of this nature.

[593] And despite the massive search, the only evidence found are footprints and tire tracks at the abduction site, which are casted.

[594] Is that the right word when you do a cast?

[595] It's cast or casted, I think.

[596] Well, that's what they did with the prints.

[597] One of the problems that arises is that the story goes national.

[598] Remember a current affair?

[599] Oh, yeah.

[600] Like, they fucking loved it.

[601] What's his name?

[602] Moripovich.

[603] Oh, wait, what's the guy's name with the mustache?

[604] Petrobin?

[605] No. Moripo.

[606] Geraldo.

[607] Heraldo?

[608] Heraldo.

[609] Thank you.

[610] Heraldo fucking milks the shit out of it in a really creepy way.

[611] And the story goes national and the law enforcement asks the public in the nation for tips and help, which is a bad fucking thing to do because it's probably local.

[612] And now what happens is people from all over the country call in these crazy tips that now investigators have to follow up on.

[613] So they have all these leads that probably go nowhere.

[614] You know, some guys like I saw a kid that looks like him in fucking Alabama.

[615] They have to look into it.

[616] Right.

[617] But none of those tips lead anywhere.

[618] So then two months later after Jacob's abduction, another boy comes forward to law enforcement with information that he thinks is relevant to Jacob's kidnapping.

[619] So nine months and ten miles away from Jacob's abduction, nine months ago, this boy, he's 12 -year -old Jared Shirel, and he had been kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and physically threatened by an unknown assailant.

[620] And this fucking 12 -year -old boy comes forward and is like, I think this is connected to Jacobs.

[621] kidnapping.

[622] It's unbelievable.

[623] This guy Jared is the fucking hero of the story.

[624] We'll get into it.

[625] So Jared had been walking home in the dark by himself from an ice skating rink in Cold Springs, which was just 10 miles away in January, 1989, when a man had pulled up and asked him for directions.

[626] The man then got out of the car, had grabbed Jared and forced him into the backseat of the car, telling him he had a gun and wasn't afraid to use it.

[627] And he drove Jared to a remote area, sexually assaulted him, and then later let him go.

[628] And the man told Jarrett, if the authorities ever got close to finding him, he'd kill Jared first.

[629] And then he told him to run and not look back or he'd shoot.

[630] Ooh.

[631] Yeah.

[632] So the family had reported the kidnapping and assault to the police at the time.

[633] And based on Jared's description of the car and the man, authorities were able to connect it to a man, a local man that was on the police's radar due to burglary charges.

[634] And he'd been caught driving with a police scanner in the same kind of car that Jared.

[635] described and he said that the man had a police scanner so they're like let's fucking talk to this creep yeah and but he's unable to pick him out of a lineup and because of Jared's description of the man's car it didn't totally match up he said that the car had a sports rack on top and the car like didn't even though it was like a fucking the same fucking car yeah the man is released okay okay but now nine months later when Jared tells the story to the FBI they believe the cases are connected because of the details Jared's story leads FBI agents back to the original suspect in the case.

[636] He's an unemployed man who lives in the town of Painesville, which is about 30 miles from St. Joseph, and his name is Danny Heinrich.

[637] He denies any knowledge about the abduction of either Jacob or Jared, but he fails a polygraph test.

[638] He agrees to provide investigators with his tennis shoe prints, and the souls match the prints taken at the Jacob abduction site.

[639] And it's also found that Heinrich Sears -brand tires on his car match the plastic.

[640] castor cast of the tire at the scene of Wetterling's abduction.

[641] Oh, my God.

[642] Right?

[643] And then the other thing, too, that I thought went interesting is that they didn't see Jacob driven away in like a getaway car, and maybe it's because nine months earlier the car had been described, so this time he learned to hide the car, and he was hidden up the driveway behind some trees.

[644] So he walked him to the car.

[645] Makes sense.

[646] So they have, this is the fucking, like, talk about re -traumatizing a victim.

[647] They have Jared sit in Heinrich's car in the back seat to see if he can recognize it as the car he was abducted in.

[648] And this fucking strong as hellboy says that on a scale of 1 to 10, the vehicles in eight or nine in terms of how similar it was to the car in which he's abducted in a year earlier.

[649] But they don't do fucking semen tests on the back seat.

[650] None of that shit.

[651] But Heinrich has put under surveillance.

[652] He shakes the tail several times with evasive maneuvers, which is like, if you're innocent, You're not trying to get away from the fucking cops.

[653] Yeah, just go to 7 -Eleven and come back.

[654] But for some reason, after two days, they stopped trying to find him, or follow him, with no explanation.

[655] So during a search of the home where Danny lives with his father, investigators find the police scanner, and they find a locked trunk containing two photos of little boys, one with a towel wrapped around him and another in his underwear, both take it in Heinrich's home.

[656] So, but he says to them, those photos make me look bad, and you can't take him.

[657] take my properties.

[658] So they give the photos back to him and he burns them and gets rid of them.

[659] They give him the photos back.

[660] They do convince him to stand in a lineup for three boys, which I think we'll put the photo on the post of this.

[661] You can see it.

[662] He's in a lineup and he and it's and they show it the lineup to three boys.

[663] Two who reported seeing a suspicious man in the car near Wetterling's house in the week before the abduction.

[664] So who the fuck knows who they actually saw.

[665] And they also have Jared see the look at the lineup and none of them pick out Heinrich but the kids who aren't brought in to see the lineup is fucking problematic Aaron and Trevor who were with Jacob when he was fucking abducted and they're not brought in to look at the lineup and it's also criticized that the investigators didn't have Heinrich speak since then he was said by everyone to have a low raspy voice so that didn't happen and also I wonder if anyone thought to put a mask like a nylon over his face to see what that would look like.

[666] Because clearly it wasn't a guy that was just standing there.

[667] And there's so many other things too that you'll, when you listen to In the Dark, season one, you'll know like he was known to wear camo around town and all the victims were saying that this man had camo on, like the same kind of clothes, that sort of thing, like so many little fucking things that just made him a probable suspect that should have been looked into further.

[668] Right.

[669] You know?

[670] So Heinrich is released, though they take some hair from him, hair samples from him.

[671] Then on February 9th, 1990, an event that has been called the most fatal flaw in the Wetterling investigation occurs when a drunk Danny Heinrich is arrested in questioned by two inexperienced FBI agents who didn't really know the details of the case.

[672] They questioned him about the kidnapping and the molestation of Jared Shirel, but not, they didn't know he was connected to the, possibly to the Jacob Wetterling case.

[673] The agents allegedly tell detectives that they don't think Heinrich is guilty and he's released again.

[674] I know And then a man A fucking pedophile Convicted pedophile named Dwayne Hart Comes forward in 91 He's a suspect in the case And they go after him And he's like I'm friends with Danny Heinrich And he asked me how to That month that Jacob Wedderling went missing Asked me how to fucking hide a body Like this fucking pedophiles Like I'm telling you who the person is right now And so The investigators don't follow up on this And that's the last we hear Of Danny Hyrick in the Wetterling investigation for more than 20 years.

[675] It's easy to sit here.

[676] I know.

[677] 30 years later, however long it is.

[678] And put all the pieces together.

[679] I know that's all so clear.

[680] But these are those things because the first thing it made me think of is Jean Bonnet.

[681] How are you assigning any inexperienced anybody to a case like this?

[682] Yeah.

[683] And you know, everyone wants to blame a simpler time, 1989, but it's like the FBI and fucking criminal profiling existed.

[684] It wasn't like fucking there weren't homicide detectives.

[685] Like those people existed.

[686] Right.

[687] They, you know, they, and I know that there were so many leads and this was a really emotionally charged investigation, high pressure, but they had him.

[688] And there's more.

[689] Right, right, right.

[690] I'm going to tell you all about it.

[691] Easy for us, easy for us.

[692] But God damn it, it's frustrating.

[693] But I think it's, and I'll tell you, it's acknowledged that they fucked up by them.

[694] So here we go.

[695] Well, and also these are the things, not that it counts, but these are the things that then later on make it so much better because it's that thing of never again yeah next time they they they don't they don't repeat the same problems you got to hope yeah okay meanwhile the wetterlings established the wettling foundation which works to help communities and families prevent child exploitation and patty wetterling becomes a national advocate for missing children this woman is a fucking badass hero like i just you watch these interviews with her and how she stays so strong and centered and just, you know, thinking positively and knowing what her fucking goal is, which is to help children and victims not, you know, get exploited is unbelievable.

[696] And I don't know how she has that in her.

[697] It's fascinating.

[698] And she's just so incredible.

[699] In the summer of 1990, the Jacob Wedderling Foundation offers a national database assistance program to help families of missing children and legislation for the Jacob Wedderling Act.

[700] A national registry of people who committed crimes against children is passed.

[701] So that's when the sex offender offender registry comes into fucking play.

[702] Love it.

[703] Amazing.

[704] People take their horrible experiences and turn them into something that can help future victims and future families.

[705] I'm just in awe of them.

[706] Well, it's also kind of like maybe it's a way to go, there is a, not a point, but it is that the good that come out of the ultimate darkness, the worst thing of all time.

[707] that there still is something beneficial that can come out of it.

[708] Right.

[709] Yeah.

[710] Yeah.

[711] Amazing.

[712] So early 2000s, investigators zero in on a man named Dan Rassier, who becomes a fucking person of interest.

[713] Dan is an elementary school teacher, and he lived at the house at the top of that gravel fucking driveway.

[714] Yeah.

[715] All I can think now is now that we live in the world where exposed pedophile ranks, basically every conspiracy theory has been proved correct yeah there's no longer conspiracy theories now they're just fucking theories about the way power works in this world and that idea that they are all friends or know each other which used to be so crazy and insane yeah is so believable now hold on he has nothing to do with it oh damn it i was going on an epstein i'm on an epstein turn dude i can't stop reading about that fucking creepy piece of shit he had an island that the locals called pedophile island but no one could touch him because he's a billionaire millionaire.

[716] How was he able to kill himself after attempting it a week earlier?

[717] He either is not dead or was murdered.

[718] I'm telling you.

[719] What else could it be?

[720] It could be an aptitude.

[721] It's so simple.

[722] There's so many things it could be.

[723] Okay.

[724] Okay.

[725] Let's get back.

[726] Jesus Christ.

[727] Let's get back off Pedophile Island into this terrible story.

[728] Jay, go get me another shot, please.

[729] Eight of them.

[730] Paul, we're drinking.

[731] Paul, I'm going off the wagon and we're drinking here, McClellan's.

[732] I'd like to point out that I'm not forcing Stephen to get me drinks anymore.

[733] That's nice.

[734] He's been promoted.

[735] That's right.

[736] Stephen's the engineer.

[737] He doesn't get drinks anymore.

[738] Stephen gets a drink with me. We take shots together.

[739] And then everything.

[740] Some would call you peers.

[741] No, we're not.

[742] Okay.

[743] I love you, Stephen.

[744] Okay.

[745] Dan Rassier.

[746] So Dan is an elementary school music teacher and not a pedophile.

[747] Damn it.

[748] Sorry, Dan.

[749] Dan, sorry, I went crazy.

[750] Yeah, no. He lived at the top of the gravel driveway where the abduction the abductor had hidden when he took Jacob.

[751] So they were like, maybe it's him.

[752] Like, let's go after him hard for.

[753] The way I just did.

[754] Well, understandable.

[755] And I remember when he became a person of interest because, like, most murderinos, we kind of kept up with the updates of news and shit about this case.

[756] Right.

[757] And you're like, yeah, it's fucking him.

[758] It's that guy.

[759] It's obviously him.

[760] Yeah.

[761] But investigators search the farm.

[762] The house is his parents.

[763] And he lives there with them, another, like, fucking pedophile.

[764] flag for most people like you live with your parents and it's like maybe they have a nice fucking house maybe they have an indoor jacuzzi you don't know teachers do not make money no that's right they need to live somewhere music teachers they're on he's not so they fucking like of course make a big deal of digging up the property looking you know and like make it look like they have information that's leading them to do that so they just kind of hound him for years they ruin his life trying to get him to break at one point they have patty wetterling wear a wire and confront him in public and be like, tell me if you took Jacob.

[765] And what does he do?

[766] He just denies it.

[767] He denies it the whole time and he does interviews and he's just really forthright and he's like, I didn't do this.

[768] And he didn't.

[769] Okay.

[770] So let's jump to 2012 now.

[771] Here we are.

[772] There's this fucking amazing woman named Joy Baker.

[773] She's a blogger.

[774] She is from a town not far from where Jacob had been abducted and had been obsessed with finding out what happened to him.

[775] And since 2010, she just had this like, you, I read a lot of her blog posts, and it's just that she had this poll, and she always thought about him, and she was just obsessed with the case.

[776] It sounds like she was just really into it to true crime and wanted to see if the investigators had missed something, and maybe she could help find it.

[777] So she, since 2010, had been researching Jacob's case, interviewing witnesses, digging into archive news stories, and had been writing about the case on her blog, Joy the Curious.

[778] It's Joybaker .com, if you want to check it out.

[779] In her research, she stumbles upon articles from the mid -1980s.

[780] And I'm looking at, I'm fucking picturing micro -fish.

[781] And this is just like a movie waiting to happen.

[782] Yeah, because that means Joy had to haul her ass down to the library or wherever, or the police station or wherever to find all those articles.

[783] That's right.

[784] Who would she be played by?

[785] She's like a young Martha Stewart, I would say.

[786] So let's get Laura, let's get Laura Lenny on that job.

[787] Laura fucking Lenny.

[788] Bring it.

[789] She can handle it.

[790] she's salt of the earth yeah very emotive yeah yes um so in her research she stumbles upon articles from the mid 1980s there's like a two year period where all these cases of a strange stocky man with a raspy voice start as grabbing boys off their bikes and sexually assaulting them at night in the downtown area of painsville minnesota what remember painsville it's where our friend jared is from right um the man even asked about the boys ages before grabbing them and threatened to shoot them if they looked at him.

[791] And one boy, I'm just this is such a creepy fucking little side like bar said that one boy from Cold Spring said that his attacker had quote cheese teeth, like Swiss cheese kind of.

[792] Which is such a like kid thing to say you know and it's so sad and it turns out Danny Heinrich had chewed tobacco for several years and it affected his teeth and made holes in them.

[793] Oh.

[794] Yeah.

[795] So It turns out that on October 24th, 1989, less than 48 hours after the abduction of Jacob, one of those victims from fucking Painesville had come forward, another one, not Jared, had come forward about his assault and told him that it was a very similar to the description of the abduction of Jacob, and then he thought it was the same dude because of the, quote, quick military and proficient way it was done.

[796] Ooh.

[797] And he said that he saw two other ambushes by the Painesville perpetrator.

[798] And so Madeline Bairn interviews a couple of these like now men about their abductions and assaults.

[799] And they talk about how it was just like known.

[800] Like watch out for the pervert like around town.

[801] Everyone knew what was happening.

[802] And like one kid's like, yep, he got my friend.

[803] You know, like they all knew about it.

[804] And yet be I think because of like the stigma, the stigma of it, the pain of it, the horror of those families went through.

[805] instead of like coming together and being a forthright which would be a very difficult thing to do anyway everyone just keeps it to themselves and also don't you think it's a little bit about boys men sexual assault the complete taboo and like unspoken shame of that it happened in my little tiny neighborhood when I was like six or seven there was this kid who was molesting other boys they one of them took him to trial and we never fucking talked about it.

[806] It just was not discussed.

[807] There was no, don't, you know, warning.

[808] Don't go into bushes with weird fucking creepy kids.

[809] Right.

[810] Like, there was no warning because you just didn't talk about it.

[811] I mean, I feel like that's the other change aside from, that's the newest version.

[812] It's like we're all now helicopter parenting each other by being honest and telling these stories.

[813] That's right.

[814] That's kind of the point.

[815] Well, that's why this guy, Jared, is such a fucking hero because he came forward time and time again trying to, find out who did this to him and knowing that Jacob was probably attacked by the same person.

[816] And he didn't let that get in the way.

[817] You know, he just like, he went full fucking force.

[818] As a child.

[819] As a child and as adult again.

[820] Oh, God.

[821] Okay.

[822] So this other guy came forward.

[823] He said that he saw two weather people it happened to.

[824] And he gave the deputy the name of the officers in Painesville that he had reported it to.

[825] So he said to them, go talk to these officers, but this lead wasn't checked out until January 5th, 1990, so like a year later.

[826] No, that's like three months.

[827] Okay.

[828] So three months later.

[829] Time is crazy.

[830] And it never led anywhere, though.

[831] Right, right.

[832] So they kind of didn't know that this had been happening, and Joy was able to find this out.

[833] She fucking reaches out to Jared on Facebook and is like, did you know about these and send him the articles?

[834] He didn't know about it.

[835] This is all interviewed in the dark.

[836] And together they dig into the articles, find new leads, and they track down the boys, now men, who had also been assaulted by the same man. Oh, my God.

[837] And Jared convinces them to tell them the story, convinces them to band together and go to the police and tell them what happened.

[838] And they all think it's the same man who took Jacob as well.

[839] So after hearing each other's stories and piecing various descriptions together, the perpetrator, Jared and the men reach out to Jacob's case investigator to reveal what they knew.

[840] but it took a few years before investigators began listening and making the connections.

[841] So it's not until July 2012.

[842] A DNA profiles lifted from the wrist of the sweatshirt that Jared had been wearing the night that he was assaulted.

[843] And in 2015, it's confirmed that the DNA that's found on the sweater that's not Jared's matches the DNA hair samples taken from Danny Heinrich in 1990.

[844] Oh, my God.

[845] Uh -huh.

[846] But guess what?

[847] He's dead.

[848] No. Oh.

[849] Statute of limitations.

[850] Oh, no. You can't take someone who sexually assaulted you and kidnapped you when you were 12 years old to court when you're an adult because they got away with it because of statute of limitations.

[851] Now, that got to change.

[852] That just doesn't.

[853] It doesn't make any sense.

[854] It's such a fucking, it's like being victimized all over again.

[855] Yes.

[856] And also it doesn't make sense the idea of like you got away with it.

[857] to me is such laws made by men about things that happen to women and I understand that this is a different situation but I honestly feel like that's the that's part of the blowback from that it's like oh well if they raped you and seven years later too bad for yeah they're a different person now I don't know what the I don't know what the thought is on that well I think it's not understanding these predators right I think it's genuinely whenever these laws were made they didn't understand the way these people work how they never stop how you can't like you have to put them in jail forever.

[858] And you don't think of the woman and how she doesn't have a statute of limitations on her fucking trauma and horror and the pain that was caused.

[859] Right.

[860] That's not going to end in whatever five, seven years because time is passed.

[861] That's with her forever.

[862] Right.

[863] Or the victim.

[864] Because, yeah, obviously we're talking about men here too.

[865] And then it's also like, okay, well, if the police didn't do their job correctly and fucked up and didn't find the suspect and like the statute of limitation, you're just fucked.

[866] Right.

[867] It's, it doesn't matter.

[868] Yeah, I know.

[869] All right.

[870] Okay.

[871] But they are able to use this to search Heinrich's home, and they find 19 binders that contain child pornography.

[872] Oh, my God.

[873] So this motherfucker's still alive.

[874] Yep.

[875] Just hanging out in Painesville.

[876] Mm -hmm.

[877] Oh, like a town over, but basically, yeah.

[878] Yeah.

[879] They also find numerous videotapes that he had made around town, of course, of, like, kids playing baseball.

[880] And news, you know, he's just a fucking pedophile pervert piece of shit who's been allowed to be on the street for like 30 fucking years.

[881] Okay.

[882] They arrest him.

[883] He's now.

[884] 52 years old and they arrest him on possession of child pornography which is like the only thing they can get him on right month before he is set to go to trial on those charges it's like 25 charges of child pornography possession he agrees to a plea deal and the plea deal is that he finally admits that he was the one who kidnapped sexually assaulted and murdered jacob wetterling so on september 1st 2016 Heinrich leads investigators to the burial site located on a pasture near Painesville.

[885] And Painesville, again, it's next door to St. Joe, but it's a tiny town, 2 ,500 people, lots of farmland, about 30 miles away from Wetterling's home and abduction site.

[886] And a short distance from where Heinrich was living in 1989, the remains are confirmed through dental records to be Jacob Wetterlings after 30 fucking years.

[887] Jacob's mom, Patty Wetterling, says, all I can confirm is that Jacob has been found and our hearts are broken.

[888] I am not responding to any media yet, as I have no words.

[889] Oh, I know.

[890] In the plea agreement, Heinrich agrees to plead guilty to one count of the 25 federal child pornography charges brought against him.

[891] In addition to revealing the location of the body in pleading guilty, he also agrees to testify to the details of the wetterling crime, so his family finally fucking knows what happened, but even though he won't be ever charged for them.

[892] That's part of the plea deal.

[893] So he admits to murdering a child and he's never going to be charged for it.

[894] Now, yes.

[895] Okay.

[896] So, yes.

[897] My thing is, do you know what I'm going to say?

[898] What?

[899] That maybe all these people that work on this side of the law are like, how about, how about we know for a fact, pedophiles get jailhouse justice the second he goes into.

[900] That can't be true because there's so many pedophiles in jail.

[901] And he's probably a high risk fucking, because of that is high risk.

[902] But at the same time, it's like, I'm sure they talked to...

[903] They got Epstein.

[904] Did they?

[905] No, they probably didn't.

[906] They probably didn't.

[907] You know, I'm sure they talked to the wetterlings and we're like, we can find out where he is and bring him home.

[908] So you can have a proper burial for him.

[909] You can visit his grave.

[910] Like, know where he is at least.

[911] You have to have the faith that they did consult the family.

[912] Yeah.

[913] And so he's never going to get out of jail.

[914] So he got like, it was like 19 to 20 years on that one count of child.

[915] pornography so he'll be in like early 70s when he gets out but they did it in a way that was like because of that child pornography he like they can just keep putting him in the system right because he's dangerous they did basically a work around exactly to get around the fact that the laws do not reflect how things should actually go they couldn't have done this like not knowing that he was going he's not just going to get 20 years or whatever for good fucking behavior hopefully you know yes at the court hearing heinrich testifies that he kidnapped and handcuffed jacob drove him to the gravel pit near Painesville, sexually assaulted him.

[916] And when he heard a patrol car nearby, he freaked out.

[917] And so he shot Jacob in the back of the head and killed him.

[918] He buried his body in a nearby construction site.

[919] He stole a bobcat from the fucking site to dig a grave.

[920] He said he returned a year later when it was dark and found Jacob's red jacket sticking out of the dirt and some bones.

[921] So he took those and buried them close by as well.

[922] During the court hearing, Heinrich also.

[923] admits to kidnapping and sexually assaulting Jared Shirel earlier that same year.

[924] So, Jared finally gets his fucking confirmation.

[925] He was exactly right.

[926] He was exactly right.

[927] The entire time.

[928] Right.

[929] Heinrich sentenced to the maximum prison term for the child pornography charge 20 years, blah, blah, blah.

[930] And in a recorded prison call with his brother, Danny Heinrich told him that he, quote, hasn't touched anybody since the 1989 kidnapping and murder of Jacob.

[931] I know.

[932] So who cares?

[933] Yeah.

[934] Who cares what anything about what that guy is to say?

[935] Right.

[936] But at least the isn't that thing of like, you didn't find him quick enough and he killed all these other people.

[937] True.

[938] Very true.

[939] But how do we know that?

[940] We don't know that.

[941] How are going to believe this fucking monster?

[942] He knows for a fact that his calls are recorded in jail.

[943] Totally.

[944] Yeah.

[945] Months after the first season in the dark was released, then the sheriff of the county at the time abruptly resigns and his chief deputy replaces him.

[946] That same year, 29 years after the abduction, the new sheriff, Don Gunmanson, holds a press conference, commenting on the botched investigation and they also released the state's 41 ,000 page investigation file which you can fucking read online.

[947] He acknowledges that the Stearns County Sheriff's Office lost control of the investigation and should have caught Heinrich much earlier and he takes responsibility for ignoring key evidence related to Heinrich and for making critical errors that allowed him to avoid being caught.

[948] Amazing.

[949] Yeah, he says all of us failed.

[950] There was a lot of manpower.

[951] Most of it was squandered, he said.

[952] what a huge symbol that is it is that's incredible and I think a lot of people like the FBI were pissed at him for saying that shit but I fuck them then because that's what you do that's what a professional does is you cop to your shit you talk about what got fucked up so that it doesn't get fucked up again that's what a kind human does is acknowledge that you fucked up and people are hurt because of it yes and also someone who's good at their job because how do you change how do you how do you fix it and better the system so that it doesn't happen again if you never cop to your shit right or if you just like give out awards for the people who like finally did it it's like well that's not acknowledging the 29 years that right that he wasn't found it's that kind of it's a tiny bit of touching on breaking down that fraternal system that there seems to be where if in that in criminal justice if people can't go it shouldn't have gone this way without having their whole you know souls be destroyed it's just like everyone else has to do that why shouldn't you have to do it too yeah it wasn't it wasn't like he was a diabolical fucking person that got away for 29 years and eluded police he was just right there waiting for the dots to be connected and the dots to be found and they weren't and they weren't so in 2018 a judge awards Jared Shirel now 41 more than 17 million in damages and a civil lawsuit against Danny Heinrich shit yes at the trial uh Jared's friends and relatives testifies to the damage that was done to him in his life by Danny Heinrich and Patty Wetterling, who's close friends with him now, I know, also testifies on his behalf and said that his fortrightness about what happened to him is what ultimately resolved Jacob's case.

[953] Oh, I know.

[954] I can't.

[955] I know.

[956] I can't continue to cry on this podcast.

[957] I know.

[958] It's all I do.

[959] You're going to short circuit the...

[960] Jared.

[961] Shirel, of course, is unlikely to see any of the money since Heinrich filed for bankruptcy in 2011, of course, but it's a symbolic thing.

[962] Yes.

[963] wanted his day in court and, you know, he wanted acknowledgement of what happened to him.

[964] And Jacob's kidnapping changed the lives of children and parents across the U .S. Of course, helicopter parenting, just stranger danger, all that shit.

[965] Joy Baker, the blogger, wrote that, quote, Jacob's abduction changed the way we raised our children.

[966] We taught them to be wary of strangers to be home before dark and to scream and fight back.

[967] Yeah.

[968] And Jacob Waterling would have been 41 years old today.

[969] Wow.

[970] And that's the fucking Jacob.

[971] letterling case amazing please listen to in the dark season one i can't wait to it's so good i can't wait to you know it's funny uh it's not funny uh because you've told me about in the dark a bunch times and and i thought you would read i listened to it i'm glad you you know what i listen to what cold which is the one it's a different one and it is a huge bummer a huge bummer what is it about that's the one about um cold is the one about the murder of susan powell and her two sons by their husband josh powell and it is so fucked it's so fucked up and also it's they made recordings he made recordings of himself he made audio diaries of himself so it's it's listening to the killer talk yeah i hate and so i basically had to bail on it and i think i got them confused and then forgot there was a other one that was right oh essentially well i did love cold not to talk too much shit on them.

[972] I don't mean to talk shit.

[973] No, no, no, no. It's hard.

[974] I can't listen to the killer talk.

[975] It fucked the whole, that whole season in that case fucked me up when I listened to it.

[976] It's just like I can listen.

[977] I can listen to that but not Dr. Death.

[978] Right.

[979] Well, that's a different thing.

[980] We all have our, we all have our areas.

[981] Cold is an amazing and very well produced podcast.

[982] The subject of which.

[983] So fucked up.

[984] When I was driving up and down the five alone.

[985] Yeah.

[986] Didn't help me out.

[987] No, I can't imagine.

[988] In any way.

[989] It was spending time with a bunch of creeps.

[990] Well, the second season of In the Dark is the one about Curtis Flowers, has been convicted, and he's been tried.

[991] It was like something like six times for this murder and this furniture store.

[992] And it's just like by this racist fucking county prosecutor.

[993] It's just this saga of what happened to this poor man, Curtis Flowers.

[994] And it's just incredible investigative journalism.

[995] Amazing.

[996] By the team.

[997] God bless investigative journalism.

[998] so that we can have our show.

[999] Wow, that was amazing.

[1000] Thank you.

[1001] Good story.

[1002] Thank you.

[1003] And with that, I'm going to change gears on you.

[1004] Great.

[1005] As I want to do, only because for me, it's still summer.

[1006] Yes.

[1007] I don't want to let go of that endless summer feeling yet.

[1008] No. And so my story this week is going to be partly, it's actually partly a disaster story, but then it's also partly a cryptozoology, legend.

[1009] That's right.

[1010] I'm doing the Mothman story.

[1011] What?

[1012] That's right.

[1013] Tell me everything.

[1014] Now, how much do you think you know about the Mouth Man?

[1015] Literally zero.

[1016] Is that true?

[1017] I don't think so.

[1018] You haven't even watched The Moth Man Prophecies, the movie I've told you to watch about 20 times.

[1019] I've not watched a single movie you told me to watch ever.

[1020] I keep meaning to have a night and just watch all Karen's movie recommendations.

[1021] I'm going to make you a list.

[1022] Oh, I have something for you.

[1023] Oh, my friend Doug Jones, who's going to be DJing the night who I write about in the book, Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered, as being someone who likes to share weird, obscure things like Mr. Show.

[1024] Oh.

[1025] And Largo with, made us a movie from the TV, murder in Texas, the 1981 TV movie about the murder that you covered.

[1026] Yes.

[1027] What was it?

[1028] Oh, God.

[1029] This could be the one about the rich woman and her shitty husband and her father.

[1030] Yes.

[1031] The father, the husband killed her.

[1032] She was into horses.

[1033] and the father killed him.

[1034] This was a live show that we did.

[1035] I don't know if we've posted it.

[1036] Really?

[1037] We must have posted it if he knows about it.

[1038] I think it wasn't alive, Steven.

[1039] What were we talking about?

[1040] Yeah, I know it was because we did it in...

[1041] Oh, that's right.

[1042] It was like, Texas?

[1043] Yes, Texas.

[1044] You did?

[1045] Good.

[1046] Oh, it's called murder in Texas.

[1047] Oh, my God.

[1048] I shouldn't have taken that eighth shot.

[1049] This is amazing.

[1050] I know.

[1051] Doug Jones.

[1052] Thank you, Doug Jones.

[1053] What?

[1054] Joan Robinson Hill.

[1055] Joan Robinson Hill.

[1056] And her father had a, like a Texas guy's nickname.

[1057] Bucky.

[1058] Bud.

[1059] It was dude.

[1060] Hat.

[1061] Hat?

[1062] Ash.

[1063] Ash Robinson.

[1064] Oh, I was close.

[1065] You were close with hat.

[1066] Hot Robinson.

[1067] I want my nickname to be hat from now.

[1068] Okay.

[1069] Promise.

[1070] Because you wear hats so much.

[1071] I do.

[1072] Yeah.

[1073] Thank you.

[1074] Thank you, Doug.

[1075] This is.

[1076] I'm so excited.

[1077] Wait a second.

[1078] I think this might star either Farrah Fawcett.

[1079] That's great.

[1080] And maybe Tommy Lee Jones is in there?

[1081] I think so.

[1082] And I think we posted this.

[1083] No, it was the guy who should have a mustache all the time.

[1084] Sam Neil.

[1085] No, no. Sam.

[1086] We got there.

[1087] We got there.

[1088] And it wasn't a live episode.

[1089] Was not?

[1090] Shit.

[1091] What episode was it, Stephen?

[1092] 172.

[1093] Okay.

[1094] Was it, we had just come back from Texas and it was one.

[1095] I hadn't done there.

[1096] Thank you.

[1097] You can have that.

[1098] Okay.

[1099] I'll give you that.

[1100] I appreciate it.

[1101] I'm going to get that one on a technicality.

[1102] Okay.

[1103] So we're talking now about one of my favorite stories.

[1104] And I have referenced on this show that to me, of all things that are scary, the scariest one, is people talking too fast on the phone.

[1105] My sister and I talk about this all the time.

[1106] There's a part in the Mothman prophecies where Richard Gere, the star of the Mothman prophecies, which is basically an amount.

[1107] of all of the witness stories put together in one.

[1108] Creepy!

[1109] So they kind of made it.

[1110] And it's based on a book by an author named, hold on front back.

[1111] Simply named.

[1112] Simply named, and I quote John Keel.

[1113] He wrote the book, The Moth Man Propheasies in 1975.

[1114] And then they made this movie in 22.

[1115] And Richard Gere was like, I'm on board.

[1116] Richard Gere's like, this is my jam.

[1117] Yeah, I'm going to, this is my vehicle.

[1118] So these creepy things are happening to him as a report.

[1119] quarter.

[1120] It's completely, this version of it is not real.

[1121] But at one point he's staying in this weird little hotel and he picks up the phone and there's weird feedback and electrical noises and then there's a voice that goes, like that fast, creepy talking.

[1122] And my sister and I decided one day because I did it to her on the phone just to be funny.

[1123] Never do that again.

[1124] And she got so mad and we decided that way too fast talking is the scariest thing that is.

[1125] It's so scary.

[1126] Yeah.

[1127] Another worldly so anyway yeah if you haven't seen the mothman prophecies starring richard gear oh we're all gonna watch it together please stream it on your local streaming services also i got a lot most of my information from an article on rancor the website that works so hard and gets almost no credit such a good website god bless you rank and then they're like oh you like this article well here's 10 other ones you're gonna fucking stay up all night reading yes you're gonna like all the rest of these articles as much if not more so god grab it whole um and also the website which I can, I'm starting to use more and more weird U .S., which basically there's a book series that I used to read in the 90s called like Weird Los Angeles, Weird San Francisco.

[1128] And it would have all the haunted places, creepy places, murder sites, whatever, kind of creepy of interest areas.

[1129] So now they're all on one website called Weird U .S. Love it.

[1130] And then of course the Mothman prophecies.

[1131] Okay.

[1132] So this story took place in and around the cities of Point Pleasant, Orescent.

[1133] West Virginia, and Gallupolese, Ohio, which I can't believe that's the way it's pronounced when it looks exactly like Gallipoli.

[1134] Unacceptable.

[1135] It made me really mad when Stephen looked it up for me. From November of 1966 through December of 1967.

[1136] So this started happening November of 1966 and went on for a year.

[1137] And these two cities sit directly across from each other, across the Ohio River.

[1138] And or the northern part of Gallup Police, it sits directly across from Point Pleasant, West Virginia.

[1139] Got it.

[1140] So the West Virginia side is best known for Mothman sightings, but it actually also happened over on the Ohio side as well.

[1141] Okay.

[1142] The Ohio River is between and it also kind of acts as the state line between West Virginia and Ohio.

[1143] My mind just blanked out.

[1144] Geography.

[1145] Don't resist geography because here's the thing.

[1146] This is how we're learning about our great name.

[1147] thing we know nothing about.

[1148] And also, did you even know West Virginia in Ohio were next to each other?

[1149] No. Of course I didn't.

[1150] I failed that class.

[1151] I stared at this map for so long.

[1152] Okay.

[1153] So, the story begins November 12th, 1966, 80 miles southeast of Point Pleasant, West Virginia, and a little town, oh, I didn't look up the, okay, I'll just pronounce this how I feel it.

[1154] Let's hear it.

[1155] That's right.

[1156] C -L -E -N -D -E -N -I -N.

[1157] Or it could be clendinan or could be clendenin or could be clandinin.

[1158] But this is a little sleepy berg of about 1 ,500 people in Wikipedia says in 2010.

[1159] Okay.

[1160] Over 1 ,200 people.

[1161] It's probably tripled since then.

[1162] I would like to think.

[1163] Okay.

[1164] So this is what happens.

[1165] Cut two.

[1166] We're in a cemetery.

[1167] Five grave diggers are digging a grave.

[1168] Why are we here?

[1169] Cut that out.

[1170] No, leave it.

[1171] It's so gross.

[1172] It's like a weird thing coming out of my throat.

[1173] I belched in the microphone, so it's only fair.

[1174] Okay.

[1175] Five grave diggers.

[1176] Digging a grave.

[1177] They look up, they hear noise in the trees overhead.

[1178] They look up to see a man -sized black bird with huge glowing red eyes fly out of the treetops and then down low to the ground near them and away.

[1179] Okay, so it's not a man. It's just the size of one and it's a giant bird.

[1180] Yes.

[1181] I think the word man being thrown in there is confusing.

[1182] Man size.

[1183] It was a hyphenate.

[1184] Okay, got it.

[1185] A man -sized bird.

[1186] Got it.

[1187] So he didn't have, like, hands and arms.

[1188] No. He didn't have, like, weird eyebrows that need to get trimmed.

[1189] No, it was just size -wise.

[1190] Got it, got to, got, got, got, got.

[1191] You know, birds are usually the size of your arm or smaller.

[1192] Sure.

[1193] Sure.

[1194] Not my man. Not Vince -sized.

[1195] Okay, so for me immediately, kicking this off, my cynic mind goes, when have there ever been five grave diggers anywhere?

[1196] Sure.

[1197] Unless this was a unionized.

[1198] cemetery from the late 60s.

[1199] Yeah.

[1200] Two max.

[1201] Totally.

[1202] Three maybe.

[1203] What is this fucking family annihilator?

[1204] Yeah.

[1205] What's, how do you get five?

[1206] Why are you all together?

[1207] And they're probably also kind of freaked out a little because they're in a fucking grave yard digging.

[1208] They might be used to it if it's their job.

[1209] Unless they're just digging a grave and they're not professionals.

[1210] Oh.

[1211] We don't know.

[1212] It was the late 60s.

[1213] Speculation.

[1214] Anything could have happened back then.

[1215] But then the fact that, so I was saying con that it's five.

[1216] Because I'm not buying it.

[1217] The con that it's grave diggers because it, oh, it starts on a dark and spooky night or whatever.

[1218] But then pro is the fact that five individuals came forward.

[1219] So that's meaningful.

[1220] Yes.

[1221] Although I'm sure they were ignored and humiliated by the authorities.

[1222] But three days later on November 15th, two young couples in Point Pleasant, West Virginia.

[1223] Their names are Roger and Linda Scarberry and Steve and Mary Millett.

[1224] They report seeing a, quote, large flying man with 10.

[1225] 10 foot wings.

[1226] Now, that's different than a man -sized bird.

[1227] That's right.

[1228] This is a man that flies with huge wings.

[1229] I think someone wrote that down wrong.

[1230] So, but this huge man -sized bird was following their car.

[1231] Wait, man bird, though.

[1232] Yeah.

[1233] Okay, was following their car.

[1234] Was following their car in an area known as the TNT area, which was the site of a former World War II munitions plant near Point Pleasant.

[1235] They said his eyes glowed red when the car's headlights picked up, like, shone on him like a big man -sized deer in night vision okay but a moth man got it i'm here for this that didn't help okay you just said a bunch of words right then more sightings start coming in on november 17th so that's two days later a teenage boy is driving down route 7 near cheshire ohio and he sees a gray man -shaped 10 foot tall creature with red eyes um based on the pictures i think the reason they're saying man -shaped and man -sized is because it's got wings but two legs yeah yes and also the the head stops mid -wing and doesn't go up above it so it's like it doesn't look like a man wearing wings who's got a look yeah yes the heads down low almost like below the wing but it's a bird head not a man head but the head part is a question mark okay okay oh stephen has great Stephen has a bunch of pictures which oh yeah yeah yeah let me see take a look oh god i just closed it stephen what's your what's your password i'll say it on the on air c a t z cat it's like an owl who has eyes in his chest yeah we'll come back to that part okay that's creepy as fuck we'll post that on it's very upsetting my favorite murder on instagram all our socials go on okay so so this teenage boy driving down route seven sees this tall gray man shaped 10 foot tall creature.

[1236] That's bad enough.

[1237] But then he tells the authorities that as he sped away, it followed his car.

[1238] Yeah.

[1239] So very creepy and spooky.

[1240] Then about two weeks later, we're back over in Ohio at the Gallupolis Airport and or Gallup Police, sorry, Gallo Police Airport.

[1241] Thank you.

[1242] Five pilots.

[1243] Five.

[1244] Mm -hmm.

[1245] Circle with a circle in red and put a question mark above.

[1246] Five pilots see what at first they believe to be a weird airplane flying at 70 miles an hour, then they realize is some sort of large bird with a long neck.

[1247] Why are there five pilots on one plane?

[1248] Well, we don't know if they were separate and it was five reports.

[1249] If they just loaded a plane filled with pilots of like we have to get this thing where it's going.

[1250] Everyone's a little sleepy so if everyone takes a turn it'll be great.

[1251] One awake a co -pilot equals four sleepy co -pilots.

[1252] Also, back then, did all men spend time in groups of five?

[1253] And is that why things are so fucked up now?

[1254] I trust pilots.

[1255] I do, too.

[1256] Do you?

[1257] Except when you find out, like, one of them, they get arrested because they're drunk trying to fly a plane.

[1258] Yeah, but that never happens, almost hardly yet.

[1259] J .K. So then it is credible because they see a lot of stuff.

[1260] Sorry, grave diggers.

[1261] I trust you, too.

[1262] We absolutely trust you.

[1263] But you see creepy stuff You're creeped out a lot There's a Scooby -Due element To being a grave digger That when you're a pilot You're just like I've got everything on lock And I must I'm from the Air Force So then on December 7th Four adult women Because it's women So it has to be one less Four adult women are driving up Route 30 I'm saying these roads Like we know them at all Oh sure Route 30 You know Route 30 I take it to the 10 to the 110 To the Route 30 To the Route 30 Okay, so they're driving up Route 30, and they see what they report to be a brownish, silver, man -shaped creature with glowing red eyes.

[1264] So you can rely on the women to get accurate about that color.

[1265] Maybe the sun was setting.

[1266] Crimson, they're like crimson.

[1267] There was like, he was either super tan.

[1268] Big apple red.

[1269] That's what I paint my toenails.

[1270] So, okay.

[1271] So authorities are baffled, probably very scared because they keep on hearing these stories of people seeing creepy ship.

[1272] Yeah.

[1273] So the Mason County, West Virginia Sheriff, comes up with a totally logical answer to this mystery.

[1274] He claims that everyone's seeing an unusually large heron that has gone off of its normal migration route.

[1275] And he refers to the bird, whether it's local terminology or he's just mad.

[1276] He calls it a shite poke.

[1277] Shite poke.

[1278] What's that?

[1279] I know.

[1280] I know.

[1281] It might be slang.

[1282] Okay.

[1283] Then a wildlife biologist at West Virginia University tells reporters that the descriptions of the moth man all fit the sandhill crane, which is a large American crane with a seven foot wingspan that's as tall as a grown man with reddish circles around the eyes.

[1284] And that it could be just this type of crane that's somehow lost.

[1285] Say you're taking a fucking shortcut down an alley.

[1286] Stephen is showing me this crane.

[1287] that's that is a fucked up crane let me see I haven't I haven't what if you run into that crane holy fuck that's a fucking ugly I don't like the shite poke the sandhill crane's pretty serious yeah they're big big and he has like an eye it looks like an eye mask like a sleep mask that's red that's bright red yeah so okay frightening frightening here's my problem this bird is white as as are many cranes these are white gray a a little bit brown, I'm not, I'm not buying it.

[1288] Okay.

[1289] Maybe everyone was on acid.

[1290] I mean, this was definitely when acid started getting popular, so I would not argue you.

[1291] Maybe it's like the Salem Witch Trials where there was mold on the grain that they were, that made their head.

[1292] Did you hear about that?

[1293] Is that why?

[1294] That's one of the theories and I fucking love it because I'm obsessed with mold, aka what hence fucking, this podcast will kill you being on our network.

[1295] It's amazing.

[1296] that there was this mold on the grain that they used to make the bread and everyone went fucking hallucinogenic psycho psilocybin style exactly yes hell yeah read about it okay people um not now right no please listen to this podcast okay so essentially now we've got the crane theory in the mix and people are like whew it's just a crane it's just a huge man size grain calm down okay but none of the witnesses who hear this say they saw a crane they're like no, it's simply not that.

[1297] I know a fucking crane is.

[1298] Yeah.

[1299] Don't you dare condescend to me, professor.

[1300] So, including a man who's a contractor named Neil Newell Partridge, and he argues that the theory doesn't explain all these weird electrical interferences that he's been getting at his house since he spotted the moth man in a field on his property.

[1301] And he basically saw it in a field and put up a flashlight, saw the glowing red eye.

[1302] and was like, that was no crane and here's how I know because since I saw the moth man my German shepherd has disappeared.

[1303] What?

[1304] That doesn't mean anything.

[1305] Yeah.

[1306] It ate the dog.

[1307] Oh, got it got to cut it.

[1308] Or did it run away and join the moth man?

[1309] Join that crane.

[1310] And they became a fucking dynamic duo.

[1311] The crane carries the German shepherd like a little baby.

[1312] A newborn baby.

[1313] And they're like, fuck migration patterns.

[1314] We're going.

[1315] wherever we want in West Virginia.

[1316] We're going to do it.

[1317] Let's do it.

[1318] Okay.

[1319] Newell Partridge is like, no. Something weird's going on.

[1320] I know it.

[1321] My dog knew it.

[1322] Do something about it.

[1323] So now, there's a reporter named Mary Hire, who is her correspondent for the Athens, Ohio newspaper called the Woman, the Messenger.

[1324] Yeah, in the 60s.

[1325] In the 60s.

[1326] She wore the highest of heels.

[1327] So she begins writing about all these strange sightings that she's seeing coming over the telegraph.

[1328] I don't know if that's what it's called.

[1329] Is that the telegraph?

[1330] What?

[1331] A mothman, you say.

[1332] Why?

[1333] Why?

[1334] There hasn't been a mothman around here in about 25 years.

[1335] A really short amount of time.

[1336] People start calling.

[1337] So she starts writing about it in the messenger, the Athens messenger.

[1338] Sure, sure.

[1339] Then people start calling her and telling her when they see UFOs, experiencing odd electrical interferences like Newell did.

[1340] They also start hearing weird humming sounds coming up out of nowhere.

[1341] On one particularly busy weekend, she got over 500 calls from people in the area saying that they had been seeing strange lights in the sky.

[1342] 500.

[1343] 500 calls in one weekend.

[1344] Holy shit.

[1345] So something was going.

[1346] Leave me alone.

[1347] I'm trying to sleep.

[1348] How'd you get this number?

[1349] She's like, I'm just trying to report the news.

[1350] Look.

[1351] So here's, this is John Keel, who I already told you, is the author of the book, The Mothman Prophecies for 1975, upon which the classic Richard Richard Gear film is loosely based, loosely.

[1352] And he is basically considered to be the foremost authority on these Mothman stories.

[1353] He claims that between November of 1966 and November of 1967, at least 100 people personally witnessed the Mothman in the Ohio and West Virginia area.

[1354] Wow.

[1355] Now, on the Wikipedia page, it goes on to, when it gets into the debunking stage, talk about how none of these people, nobody could, to track them down.

[1356] But I just told you people's names because they were like, there's no real names and nobody, and you can't track them down.

[1357] But it's like, just because people have died since 1967 doesn't mean they didn't have the experience they had.

[1358] So, fuck you.

[1359] Professor.

[1360] Why are we mad at this?

[1361] The scientists always take the most shit.

[1362] Okay.

[1363] And the sightings of strange creatures in the sky is not new for this area.

[1364] In the early 1900s, that area was known for reports of thunderbirds, which in cryptozoology are known as they're giant birds with 12 -foot wingspans that were spotted flying up and down the Ohio River Valley.

[1365] Stephen, do you want to look up thunderbirds?

[1366] Because this is a real thing.

[1367] Now, the pictures that you find on the internet, they could very well be hoaxes.

[1368] But thunderbirds are kind of legendary.

[1369] Wait, tell me what they are again?

[1370] They're humongous birds.

[1371] A lot of people think that are somehow holdovers kind of lockness monster style or like like taradactyls.

[1372] They're like leftover dinosaur birds that come in and are just like, what's that?

[1373] A toddler?

[1374] Oh, no. And it happened to like the pioneers and stuff.

[1375] Oh, shit.

[1376] Yeah.

[1377] So this is a story that's been going on for a while.

[1378] There's also stories of similar types of creatures that would ascend from the sky that Native Americans and First Nation people have always told.

[1379] Right.

[1380] Where if a certain type of cloud would come in, they'd be like, get all the kids inside because those evil things, now I can't remember what the world.

[1381] Those evil Thunderbird type animals are coming.

[1382] So this is not, this isn't new in any way, is my point.

[1383] Wait, Stephen, let me see.

[1384] Like a drawing.

[1385] There was some cars showing up, the Thunderbird.

[1386] Of course there were.

[1387] You can't tell the size, but this is real ugly.

[1388] A majestic.

[1389] Ugly and a majestic in an ugly way.

[1390] This looks like if you're a high school mouse.

[1391] Scott is the falcons.

[1392] Yeah, it does.

[1393] There's nothing.

[1394] Stephen, there was actually a picture I was talking about.

[1395] Wait, is it the science picture with the scientists?

[1396] Read his text.

[1397] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1398] You know what?

[1399] Read his text.

[1400] Seriously.

[1401] Stephen, can you bring up that picture?

[1402] He brings up a pencil drawn.

[1403] It might as well say Alex P. underneath it or like.

[1404] Or have like a. What's the one I was looking for us.

[1405] Look at that big ass bird.

[1406] Holy shit.

[1407] Stephen, will you post this picture also?

[1408] And also, Stephen, will you find out of that picture?

[1409] There's a hoax.

[1410] That's insane.

[1411] Oh, if it's a hoax, they'll tell us.

[1412] That's a hoax.

[1413] There's no way there's that big of a bird.

[1414] This is the fun part of the show where we're going to say something's real, and it's your job to tell us if it's a hoax.

[1415] But say it angrily.

[1416] Yes.

[1417] Make sure that you act like we are always supposed to get everything right.

[1418] That's right.

[1419] We should do better.

[1420] We're your primary source of news.

[1421] Okay, so what we're saying is just that big, huge, bird -like things in the sky is not new for this Ohio Valley area.

[1422] Get with it.

[1423] Ohio River Valley, I don't know if it's a valley.

[1424] That's how I go wrong, is adding in words like that.

[1425] Okay, so all of the witnesses, here's the difference, though, in this period between 1966 and 1967, all the witnesses who reported seeing the moth man gave similar descriptions.

[1426] It was whiter than a man, but had human -like legs, that its eyes were set near the top of the shoulders, which is the creepiest aspect of it.

[1427] Yeah.

[1428] And that it had bat -like wings that glided red.

[1429] rather than flapped when it flew, and when it flew away, it ascended straight up into the air like a helicopter.

[1430] And it flipped you off on the way out.

[1431] It said, bye, bitches.

[1432] Every time it said, bye, biches.

[1433] Which is rude.

[1434] It'd say, well, they didn't know at the time what it meant, but hashtag, bye bitch.

[1435] And I'm like, what's a hashtag?

[1436] It said it really fast.

[1437] It's scary.

[1438] So scary.

[1439] Witnesses also described the murky skin is either being gray or brown, and that it emitted a humming sound when it flew.

[1440] Like that?

[1441] Like he was nervous in the grocery store?

[1442] Again, and I probably said this before, if you're ever near a person who just starts whistling or humming, you're getting your pocket picked.

[1443] And you need to keep your eyes open.

[1444] You need to get, put that head.

[1445] Just start punching, I think is the answer.

[1446] But first start by punching behind you.

[1447] Yeah, you be the weird one.

[1448] If someone's humming near you, become the weird one and just start punching.

[1449] Yeah.

[1450] Because you can just.

[1451] You can always stop and walk away.

[1452] They're still the weird one that's humming.

[1453] We are so back, baby.

[1454] Okay.

[1455] Can you feel it?

[1456] Can you feel the energy of it?

[1457] Okay, so, oh, this is my favorite sentence of all of this research.

[1458] The humming sound when it flew, and then it says, it was also incapable of speech.

[1459] It communicated with a screeching sound.

[1460] Me too.

[1461] So thank God it didn't land in front of your car with its red eyes.

[1462] I was like, what's up, Jerry?

[1463] I'm here to freak the fuck out of you.

[1464] It's never like that.

[1465] You mean it talked like a bird?

[1466] But I thought it hummed.

[1467] Anyway, what's up in your car?

[1468] Okay, so all of this is fun and creepy and weird and crypto zoological, which is kind of my favorite, as we know.

[1469] But, and maybe not true as also my favorite.

[1470] I believe it.

[1471] But here's the part that's interesting and factual.

[1472] These sightings continue for a year up until disaster strikes.

[1473] The evening of December 15th, 1967.

[1474] And all these commuters are sitting in their cars in traffic waiting to cross the Silver Bridge, which connects Point Pleasant West Virginia.

[1475] And Gallopolis, Gallopolis, it's Gallopolis, and Gallopolis, Ohio, which are on either side of the Ohio River.

[1476] Got it.

[1477] So the Silver Bridge is a span bridge.

[1478] It was built in 1928, and about 4 ,000 cars a day cross it.

[1479] Wow.

[1480] And that is very different since the 40 years ago when it was built.

[1481] I wrote since it's erection.

[1482] Shut up.

[1483] But the bridge has never been updated or rebuilt to accommodate the increasing drive time congestion.

[1484] So here's the way it happened.

[1485] And I found this story, these stories, from a website called Timeline.

[1486] Because I just put in Silverbridge Disaster Timeline, and then there's a website called Timeline .com.

[1487] God bless it.

[1488] And it had these stories on it.

[1489] Okay.

[1490] So around 5 p .m., there's a woman named Charlene Wood, who's getting on the bridge to get home from her job at a hair salon.

[1491] She's pregnant.

[1492] She's been working all day.

[1493] She just wants to get home.

[1494] Oh, her fucking feet.

[1495] All around her, there's trucks, there's commuters, and there's people shopping for Christmas, because it's almost Christmas, beginning in December.

[1496] suddenly she feels the bridge shake now apparently because this is a span bridge what does that mean a span bridge is kind of it's like built similarly to it's one where it goes over a river over a body of water so it has to suspend itself but I guess a span bridge I'm not going to be able to explain this correctly but like the Golden Gate Bridge is technically a span bridge but it's the cables on it that hold it up and keep it out and that's not like pillars instead it's like holding itself up with Yeah, tension.

[1497] Exactly.

[1498] But these, the way this bridge was built was flat pieces of metal that were a foot wide and like two inches thick.

[1499] As opposed to, you know, the Golden Gate Bridge is just all those cables.

[1500] Yeah.

[1501] Yeah.

[1502] So there is a tiny and I think they, in the end, they found out that it was like a three millimeter wide flaw in the steel on one of the spans.

[1503] But it had been there for so long.

[1504] There was no way to inspect it unless they would have to have to.

[1505] to look at every single inch of the bridge, right?

[1506] But nothing had ever been checked or updated or ever.

[1507] So over the years and the way this bridge, it would move with the cars and with whatever.

[1508] So people said it was very common to be on the silver bridge and have the whole thing move and shake and do stuff.

[1509] It was just kind of people were used to it.

[1510] But over the years, this thing kind of wore away and wore away until this day.

[1511] So Charlene is sitting there.

[1512] And she feels the bridge shake really hard.

[1513] So she real quick decides to throw her car into reverse and back up as far as she can.

[1514] And luckily, she can because one minute later, 60 seconds later, the cars in front of her began sliding down off the bridge and into the river.

[1515] The bridge had collapsed and the cars were just going in.

[1516] Holy shit.

[1517] And she had somehow miraculously been able to back up to solid ground and get off the like the, the bridge had.

[1518] part that had collapsed.

[1519] Oh my gosh.

[1520] Yeah.

[1521] And she said, um, and the water, of course, it's December.

[1522] It's freezing.

[1523] The water's 40 degrees.

[1524] She said it was like someone had lined up dominoes.

[1525] I could see cars lights flashing as they went tumbling into the water.

[1526] The car in front of me went in and then there was silence.

[1527] So she was the last car that before they stopped going into the water.

[1528] Um, a truck driver named Bill Needham is midway across the bridge when it collapses.

[1529] He's thrown into the water, but he's able to escape because he has a half rolled down window.

[1530] Oh my God.

[1531] And he was quoted as saying, I didn't know how far I had to go up when he means like swim back up.

[1532] He says, but I could tell that the water, I could tell the water kept getting lighter.

[1533] So that's basically how he knew what direction to swim.

[1534] He used a box that was floating in the water because basically there's all these trucks and all these cars.

[1535] So there's just stuff in the water.

[1536] So the people that were able to.

[1537] to get out of their cars and get to the surface we're grabbing things to hold on to because he, Bill didn't get rescued out of the water for 15 minutes.

[1538] Oh my God.

[1539] He was in 40, I think they said it was 40 degree water for 15 minutes.

[1540] Holy shit.

[1541] His partner Robert Toe did not make it out of the truck.

[1542] He died in that truck.

[1543] And so did 18 year old Marjorie Bugs who was driving her husband, Howard and their 17 month old child across the bridge when it collapsed.

[1544] Howard was pulled to safety by a rescue boat.

[1545] And the first thing he said to the crew when he got on board was, I just hope to God Marjorie and the kid got out okay.

[1546] Marjorie and her baby and Howard's baby's bodies were found six weeks later in the car, in the river.

[1547] Oh, you very am.

[1548] State trooper Rudy O'Dell, who was 31 years old at the time, was one of the first officers to respond to the disaster.

[1549] And he said, quote, I could hear them hollering for help.

[1550] I didn't know how many there were at the time.

[1551] there was absolutely nothing I could do it was a long way out into the water so he's basically on one side of the river looking out at these people who are going to jump into 40 degree water and try to sleep yeah and that's not the way you save people when they're drowning no so in all 31 cars went into the Ohio River that day sending 64 people into its 44 degree waters oh so it's 44 degrees of the 64 people who went in 46 of them died holy shit the silver bridge collapse remains the deadliest bridge disaster in United States history.

[1552] President Lyndon Johnson released a statement saying all Americans were shocked by the cruel tragedy and loss of life and assembled a task force, the task force on bridge safety to mount an investigation.

[1553] And forensic analysis traced the problem to a small stress crack inside the bearing loop of iBAR 330.

[1554] So the iBars were the things holding it up.

[1555] No sightings of the Mothman were reported it again in the Point Pleasant area after that day.

[1556] What?

[1557] Yeah.

[1558] So that's why people connect.

[1559] There's the theory is that the Mothman appeared trying to warn people about this tragedy that was coming.

[1560] If that is the case, he did not do a good job of it.

[1561] I mean, it must have been the only I can screech part.

[1562] Why?

[1563] Write something down.

[1564] Yeah.

[1565] Speaking human tongue.

[1566] Yeah.

[1567] Sorry, Mothman.

[1568] It's just the truth.

[1569] That whatever you, you did, all you did was freak people out and you were not on message.

[1570] But good try.

[1571] In 1969, the Silver Bridge was replaced by the Silver Memorial Bridge, which was a mile downstream of the original, and there is a memorial installed in Point Pleasant to commemorate the 46 bridge collapse victims.

[1572] That's so sad.

[1573] It's horrible.

[1574] But, and I think the reason that legends like this pop up, because a lot of, you know, the theories are that, there's always been this legend in like these stories and that it come it comes up after the fact right because people want to lace some kind of that that there would be help or something out of this just senseless tragedy where in the middle of the day at christmas time all these people just got dumped in the river and died so it's this there is a lore and a legend around it like something was there and it could have helped but also i think it's that idea that like that maybe somebody's watching us could help us prevent these tragedies in the future.

[1575] We just knew how to pay attention to them correctly.

[1576] Right.

[1577] And understood screeching.

[1578] Yeah, exactly.

[1579] Now, on an up note, Point Pleasant held its first annual Mothman Festival in 2002.

[1580] Oh, really?

[1581] And a 12 -foot -tall metallic statue of the creature created by artist and sculptor Bob Roach was unveiled in 2003.

[1582] Yes, there are pictures.

[1583] And it's much more silver and beautiful than any of the drawings or illustrations and also much, much taller than the way people described it.

[1584] The Mothman Festival is a weekend -long event held on the third weekend of every September, and there are a variety of events that go on during the festival, such as guest speakers, vendor exhibits, a Mothman pancake eating content.

[1585] Yes.

[1586] Can we go?

[1587] Could we please?

[1588] Can we be the speakers?

[1589] I mean, we have to hit the Circleville Pumpkin Festival first.

[1590] Right.

[1591] I think this should be number two.

[1592] Yeah.

[1593] Oh, and then also the Cheese Festival in Wisconsin.

[1594] Yes, that's right.

[1595] In Athens, Wisconsin?

[1596] I think so.

[1597] Isn't it some kind of a other foreign city name?

[1598] You're so smart.

[1599] Stephen.

[1600] Thank you.

[1601] I just love that it's a mothman pancake eating contest.

[1602] Like moths love pancakes.

[1603] If you're going to have a legit, you have a habit.

[1604] have a wool suit eating contest because that's the real deal my vintage dress eating contest exactly it'd be way harder way longer but much more accurate there's also hayride tours focusing on the notable areas of point pleasant and there's now a mothman museum and research center that opened in 2005 run by someone named jeff walmsley good job jeff jeff if that's still open god bless you It'd be amazing to go look at that.

[1605] That's right.

[1606] And that's the legend of the Mothman and the tragedy of the Silver Bridge collapse of 1967.

[1607] Wow, that was not what I was expecting.

[1608] Great job.

[1609] Right?

[1610] I didn't feel like getting fully back into the full tragedy.

[1611] No, I get it.

[1612] That was a good one.

[1613] Just a touch of it at the end.

[1614] I feel like, you know, we can do stuff like that now.

[1615] And we do this live shows a lot of times, too, of like urban legends and stuff like that.

[1616] Yeah.

[1617] I feel like let's, now that we're back.

[1618] It's storytelling.

[1619] It's storytelling.

[1620] This is new.

[1621] We don't need to find the world's worst murder every week.

[1622] It can also be stories like this, and I like that.

[1623] Fucking hooray.

[1624] Oh, yes.

[1625] So let's end this on a positive note.

[1626] Let's do it.

[1627] Do you have one from the past two months?

[1628] Do you want me to go first?

[1629] Absolutely.

[1630] Yes, you go first.

[1631] Okay.

[1632] We, three weeks ago, finally moved into my first home.

[1633] I keep calling it my apartment because it's so fucking weird.

[1634] I don't get it.

[1635] but I love it, and I'm just really happy about it.

[1636] And one of the things that brings me so much joy about it is watching the cats experience it.

[1637] Because I've just always had an apartment that faces a stucco wall and that's like it.

[1638] But now we have like a view of trees so they can watch the birds.

[1639] And there's this one giant beetle that keeps clonking against the window and the cats get, like, lose their shit.

[1640] And because of the windows, we also have sunlight in the afternoon.

[1641] Isn't that nice?

[1642] Yeah.

[1643] I love it.

[1644] And so the cats have been laying in it in the sun, and it's just so nice and comforting to watch.

[1645] But Elvis has this pink, like he lost some fur on his chest because he's getting older.

[1646] And he's been laying in the sun for the first time in years because we have sunlight, and he's gotten tan.

[1647] So now his pink belly is like a little bit tan.

[1648] And it's just making me really happy.

[1649] Oh, that's good.

[1650] It's really funny.

[1651] That's what's bringing me joy.

[1652] That's so good.

[1653] Now, this, now, be quiet.

[1654] Now this, my fucking prey is so, has nothing to do with me directly.

[1655] But I am so deeply proud that Schitt's Creek was nominated for multiple Emmy Awards.

[1656] I love it.

[1657] They're going to be at the Emmys this year.

[1658] And not, I mean, it's, so it was like, for comedy series, lead actors, Eugene Levy, lead actress Catherine O 'Hara and costumes.

[1659] Huge.

[1660] Oh, right?

[1661] Yeah.

[1662] I mean, but the idea that they didn't nominate Dan Levy, who his whole acting style is the reason that that show like sizzles the way it does.

[1663] It's like his style and the realness and whatever.

[1664] But all that is to say, when I saw that, I was, it just like, I felt so proud because that's the kind of show.

[1665] I've rewatched it probably four times.

[1666] And it just keeps on giving.

[1667] It's funnier every time you watch it.

[1668] I love it.

[1669] Like, it's just so good.

[1670] So if you haven't watched it, please watch it.

[1671] And if you watched it a while ago, rewatch it.

[1672] Like, if you're in a bad mood or things get scary, it feels it's just so great.

[1673] I had never finished watching it.

[1674] So I need to get back to it.

[1675] I mean, look, it's not for everybody.

[1676] I like to make very strong recommendations on this show and tell everybody things are exactly the way I think they are.

[1677] Like Mothman prophecies.

[1678] but um yay hooray for chit's creek and how exciting because that means that they're they're gonna be in our town that's awesome yeah love it i know me too um cool thanks you guys welcome back to everyone oh my god we're so we're so excited to be back live and in studio with you we missed you this is like our the most fun job we've ever had it's the best i can't believe we get to do this for a living and i'm just thrilled to be back And now we have to do it for a living.

[1679] Damn it.

[1680] Now we have to make a living.

[1681] No, we've got to do this thing.

[1682] That's right.

[1683] Thanks for being here with us.

[1684] We hope you had a great summer vacation too.

[1685] We miss you.

[1686] We love you.

[1687] Sorry, you have to go back to school now.

[1688] That's right.

[1689] But send your buns and tell them.

[1690] Today, Nora's her first day of seventh grade.

[1691] Oh, my God.

[1692] She's a grown up.

[1693] Yeah, and her braces are off.

[1694] Yeah, bitch.

[1695] I'm going to call her a bitch.

[1696] I'm sorry.

[1697] I'm not calling your niece a bitch.

[1698] No, no, you were doing that mothman style.

[1699] Bye, bitches.

[1700] Bye, bitch.

[1701] Bye, hashtag.

[1702] So, yes, stay sexy.

[1703] And don't get murdered.

[1704] Goodbye, bitch.

[1705] Bitch.

[1706] Elvis, you want a cookie?