Quit Trying To Calculate Your Way out of Debt!

[0] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] The phone number here is AAA 8255 -225, number one bestselling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney show.

[2] Ramsey Personality, Dr. John Deloney, is my co -host today as we answer your questions about your life, about your money.

[3] Thank you for joining us.

[4] Anthony is with us in Canada to start this hour.

[5] Hi, Anthony.

[6] How are you?

[7] I'm good.

[8] How are you doing?

[9] Better than I deserve.

[10] What's up?

[11] Hey, I got a question.

[12] So I sold my rental properties.

[13] I was under the belief that it was a passive income and it really wasn't.

[14] So we got out of it, got out of it at the right time, I think.

[15] And you mean you had to actively manage the rental property?

[16] you mean the tenants don't just do what they're supposed to do all the time I'm shocked they were calling me and they wanted like repairs done and stuff Anthony I just have to disagree with you I've watched plenty of TikTok videos I think you're out of line here that was sarcasm it's a passive income sarcasm I'm glad you realized so you sold it Anthony I'm sorry and go ahead I also watched those TikTok videos which got me into it That's our point, yeah.

[17] Okay.

[18] So I have $240 ,000 coming in, and I have fully stocked emergency fund.

[19] We're giving money.

[20] We have our, like, we call RESP for my kids' education.

[21] Yeah.

[22] We have no debt other than our mortgage, which we have 140 ,000 left.

[23] But we have, we've been paying off, like this year we paid off $60 ,000.

[24] I think next year we could probably pay off 50, $60 ,000.

[25] Like, we're on track to pay it off.

[26] But I could just pay it off tomorrow.

[27] Good.

[28] And do it.

[29] And the interesting.

[30] Do it.

[31] But like, okay, so you're so focused right now.

[32] I know.

[33] What are you going to do with the money if you don't?

[34] Invest it.

[35] Okay.

[36] So it's like borrowing $140 ,000.

[37] your house that's paid for to invest money uh if you had a paid for house would you borrow 140 on it to go invest it no same thing uh yeah i just i keep looking at like since we are so focused on the um if you're focused pay it off retirement yeah pay it off but the uh but in so in 30 years i keep doing like the compound interest calculator and there'll be a different of like a million bucks.

[38] Yeah.

[39] Is that on TikTok too?

[40] Your compound interest calculator never met a, never met a millionaire.

[41] Because let me tell you how it works in the real world, okay?

[42] In the real world, as we studied the largest study of millionaires ever done, 10 ,167 of them, none of them, precisely zero, said, we became wealthy by borrowing on our home to invest and compound increase calculator.

[43] Zero.

[44] Not one.

[45] The same number of millionaires that said they got rich with airline miles using their credit card.

[46] Zero.

[47] Not one.

[48] The same number that said they got rich using a whole life life insurance.

[49] Zero.

[50] Not one.

[51] We couldn't find one anywhere that did that.

[52] So that's the data.

[53] that I'm using.

[54] And so you, I mean, it's not even statistically significant.

[55] It's zero.

[56] It's not like, oh, it's 56 percent, so some did and some did.

[57] It's zero.

[58] None did what you're talking about doing.

[59] And so, yes, your compound interest calculator is there, but what it's leaving out is risk and what it's leaving out is is the way you walk when you walk into work and you don't have a house payment, your voice change.

[60] changes one octave when you don't have a house payment.

[61] It's called peace and you will make different career decisions when you don't have any debt and you have different relationship issues when you don't have any debt.

[62] None of these are quantifiable in your calculator because the borrower is slave to the lender.

[63] Think about all the implications of slavery.

[64] Only one implication of slavery is mathematical.

[65] All the rest are spiritual.

[66] physical, relational, psychological, breaking of the spirit.

[67] Think about that.

[68] And hold on.

[69] I wonder if, Dave, I wonder if he has created this new identity that he's a go -getter and he just can't picture himself.

[70] Some people create chaos because they don't know how to exist when it's peaceful.

[71] No. I think he's honestly analyzing it like he did when he bought the passive income.

[72] Okay.

[73] He's just wrong.

[74] He's just wrong.

[75] he was with the passive income it's just it's okay yeah that's how i i've learned a lot of stuff when i was wrong i'm sometimes i'm wrong but not as much lately but james will you clip that real quick i used to be i used to be a lot more but not wrong as much anymore because when i was wrong it hurt and i quit doing that wrong stuff you know i mean it's like that so and for those of you listening uh anthony was making fun of it and we were to in case you're missing the point on this anyone that tells you that real estate and i own i don't know 600 million seven hundred million dollars worth of real estate Anybody that tells your real estate is passive income is absolutely full of crap.

[76] There is nothing passive about owning real estate.

[77] If you want passive income, buy an S &P 500 index fund and set it and forget it.

[78] And you'll get checking, you know, the emails will come in and show you what you made.

[79] As a matter of fact, in the last 12 months you would have made about 25%, which had been a good run for you.

[80] It's been a nice run in the last 12 months.

[81] but that's not normal but um but i mean you didn't have to do squat you didn't have to fix a leaky roof you didn't have to collect from somebody who lied you didn't have to analyze if the next guy moving in was lying you didn't have to do anything you just set it and forget it that's passive real estate is not there's no you can't have you can't even have i have a blank piece of ground a piece of dirt the neighbor tech in here last week and said those storms that came through some of your trees fell on my lot and knocked over my fence I can't even have a piece of dirt that has no buildings that's passive even that is active you know there's just anything having you know so we got to send a guy over there with chainsaws because it's our responsibility our stupid tree tore up his nice fence and so I bought a fence and some trees and so dead dead even that you know you can't yeah can't make that up yeah it's just You know, there's no way you can get to passive in real estate.

[82] It's great investing, but it's anything but passive.

[83] I own a bunch of it.

[84] I believe in real estate.

[85] Where does that story come from?

[86] I hear it everywhere.

[87] It's the same.

[88] It's the natural extension of the bullcrap line that the renters are going to pay your payment.

[89] It's okay to borrow money because a renter will pay your payment.

[90] I'm going to let the renter pay it off for me. Note, it's your payment.

[91] And when the renter doesn't pay, because he got put in jail for hitting his wife, oh, that's happened.

[92] Yeah, because he's not working now because he's doing 1129.

[93] That'd be sitting in the local jail.

[94] Yeah, guess what?

[95] He doesn't pay.

[96] Guess what?

[97] You got to pay it anyway.

[98] So that's when you find out it's your payment, not the renter's payment.

[99] It's not passive, boys and girls.

[100] It's good investment, but it's not passive.

[101] This is the Ramsey Show.

[102] So here's a quick math refresher.

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[108] That's netsuite .com slash Ramsey.

[109] Dr. John Deloney -Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[110] Thank you for being with us America.

[111] Well, apparently enough of you people made enough noise out there that the folks here at Ramsey have officially lost.

[112] their minds because I am now in the t -shirt business I'm wearing one so look at this look at this yeah we have food at home we have food at home we have better than I deserve t -shirts and yeties and hats we have lived like no one else tumblers in case you want to tumble um if you carry that around you will tumble over it's so big and some people carry around like a bathtub and they sweatshirts that say uh debt uh they they're debt -free the debt -free tea sweatshirt are very cool.

[113] And the material is all this super soft, nice, expensive, whatever, t -shirt material.

[114] It's not like your cheesy t -shirt at the booth in the flea -market thing.

[115] You know, this is like the good stuff.

[116] So there it is.

[117] You got a story.

[118] You got to want a better than I deserve hat.

[119] And, yeah, you didn't get one.

[120] Maybe the worst pitch I've ever heard.

[121] Sales job that has ever been done.

[122] I would like, hey, America, if you have recently bought a shirt in a flea market and you are not happy with your purchase, right into the show, we'd love to hear from it.

[123] Yeah, we'll holler right now and we'll get you a better than I deserve replacement.

[124] And yeah, I just, if you got 20 bucks, I would rather you buy like John's book because that'll change your life, right?

[125] I already have it.

[126] Or you bought my book and that'll change your life, right?

[127] But if you got money and you want to say that you're debt free and better than you deserve and you got food at home and that kind of stuff, we got shirts that'll help you do that.

[128] and all at ramsysolutions .com slash store and um you can wear it while you're doing your side hustle to get that it just had yeah and then you know what and you could do like door dash and where i've got food at home that's that's that would be that's a fantastic moronic there you go yeah that would be screwed up yeah probably cost you it if you wear it better than i deserve now i will tell you this in the old days on the show when it back when it was just talk radio uh we had a bazillion people delivering pizzas this was before door dash and all that stuff was there and you say Go get a job delivering pizzas.

[129] It's a great job.

[130] You can make $1 ,500 a month working four or five nights a week.

[131] And you still can, by the way, delivering pizzas.

[132] But we had the whole Ramsey tribe out there trained to say, if the pizza guy or gal says, how you're doing better than I deserve, that means they're working that side hustle to get out of debt.

[133] You have to double their tip.

[134] Ooh, I like that.

[135] It was like code.

[136] It was tribal code.

[137] Let's bring that back.

[138] I like that.

[139] Okay.

[140] If they're wearing a better than I deserve hat.

[141] If they're wearing the clothes, you have to triple the tip.

[142] Yeah.

[143] If they just say better than I deserve, you've got to double it.

[144] There you go.

[145] I like that.

[146] There you go.

[147] Because you got to pay for their t -shirt.

[148] That's it.

[149] I like it.

[150] Now we got, shouldn't be buying a...

[151] Here we go.

[152] All right.

[153] I'm wearing the shirt and it's comfortable.

[154] That's all you need to know.

[155] It is comfortable.

[156] They're very comfortable.

[157] I can't wear them because that's like really weird.

[158] That'd be like wearing a shirt that says, my name is Dave and I'm great or something.

[159] I mean, if I wear a shirt with my own saying, I've literally seen you wear that shirt before.

[160] That's really horrible.

[161] I just couldn't.

[162] I just can't.

[163] People go, oh, you're wearing Oh, that's weird, yeah.

[164] And I really wouldn't blame them.

[165] That would be accurate.

[166] Isabella is in San Diego.

[167] Hi, Isabella.

[168] How are you?

[169] Hi, how are you guys?

[170] Better than we deserve.

[171] What's up?

[172] I was just wondering.

[173] My question essentially is how do I, I'm just looking to see how I can use my extra income and set myself up for the best financial future I can.

[174] 22, I just graduated college last week with a public health degree.

[175] so I'm really excited about that.

[176] And my, like, I rent here in San Diego, and as you know, it's super expensive.

[177] But, yeah.

[178] Did you get your big girl health, public health job?

[179] Not just yet.

[180] I'm still, I currently serve on the weekends to help with my, get extra money.

[181] And then I work with the, I'm working with the city, but it's still a minimum wage, you know, 35 hours.

[182] Now, so where's the part where I'm excited about the degree?

[183] I know.

[184] Hopefully using it to in the future, I mean, it's the excited part of the degree that it does pay well, but it usually requires a master's.

[185] I'm hoping I could pay for that.

[186] I have no debt.

[187] I paid my mom help me through college, and I made half of it too.

[188] Good for you.

[189] I would go get a job in the next six weeks in your field that will pay.

[190] pay for your masters as a part of their benefits package okay and um it's just i was wondering that do i would i still keep the serving job just to help with the extra income because i have the goal is retiring on my 401k currently have three grand in that right now but i i'm just i get you have zero debt zero debt okay how much money you have in savings four thousand in cash and $4 ,000 and a saving account.

[191] Okay.

[192] All right.

[193] I want you to build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

[194] In your case, $10 ,000 or $15 ,000 that you don't touch for anything but emergencies.

[195] And then let's work on the career side of this equation to where you're not making minimum wage and serving because that's not a plan when you're 30.

[196] Agreed.

[197] Agreed.

[198] Yeah.

[199] The 30 -year -old needs the 22 -year -old you to have a plan.

[200] And you've got the cart way before the horse right now.

[201] You've got to get a job.

[202] Yeah.

[203] Yeah, you got to get your income and then get settled into that 401k rhythm is a great thing to do and then start saving above your emergency fund for your first home purchase and you'll be well on your way to wealth building, but it's going to be dependent upon your income and if you think the field that you're in is going to require a master's, go get one, but let somebody else pay for it.

[204] Right.

[205] They do all the time.

[206] You say that like you don't believe me. Believe me in your world, they do it all the time.

[207] I just get a little nervous because I feel like with the master's like if I my mom really wants me to do it now she's like we can budget for it it's okay it's a small loan but I don't know or just go get a job at the university why don't you go get a job at the university and let them pay for it now I'm not suggesting waiting 10 years I'm suggesting doing that the next five or six weeks I guess I never really looked into into that's what you need do kiddo you can get and you can get one in your field but you can also go get a job at a local university and they'll have some sort of tuition reimbursement program and then get yourself a master's there and they'll get an employee that they get to keep for two to three years and you'll get your master's degree paid off it's a great and it doesn't need to be a big fancy school no I mean the cheapest possible school in your area you know that would hire you to mop the floors and give all their employees free tuition or hire you to be a graduate assistant or a resident hall director you get your housing taken care of too and all this is going to come at a car but you end up with a master's degree in a public service field and you don't owe anybody any money then you can actually do real service without wondering where you're going to sleep and you start on it next week without having to budget out of your mom's right stuff to pull it off yeah you need to be thinking about your career that way rather than I can't do my career until I get a master's instead integrate the getting of the masters into your career moves that's what we're saying and it really can be done kiddo I know I can tell from the way you your voice tone was that you didn't think it can be done but believe me John's got a PhD I did it.

[208] I did it.

[209] Yeah.

[210] Oh, you did it.

[211] I did that.

[212] Oh, yeah.

[213] There's that.

[214] One of the PhDs I worked at a university for my master's degree.

[215] Both haven't paid for?

[216] No, I paid for the second one, but my master's degree.

[217] I worked at a university and they helped.

[218] And then my, the PhD, yeah, was largely taken care of with tuition reimbursement program at the university where I work.

[219] That's a pretty standard thing.

[220] And that actually happens, by the way, boys and girls out there in medical school, too.

[221] There's MD PhD programs.

[222] that they're very hard to get in but if you can Duke has several for example where you again work on campus you're a TA or a GA and you know you're working grading papers and other stuff while you're doing your work and oh you're not supposed to have a set list and they'll do it they'll do it and they do it all the time while you work on this stuff and that's you know the it's a lot of people get postgraduate stuff paid for it's excellent for undergrad but not very much many undergrads qualify for the actual work or if you have a like an associate's in nursing you can your hospital may pay for you to get your bachelors or help you get your um your r in yeah whatever you need so it always it never hurts to ask that question um or to really scour the earth and you might have to move you might have to work at a different school or work at a different hospital whatever but always ask that question and you're thinking about the five year from now you the alternative is weight tables and work minimum wage and you and your mom scratched together and up nickels out of the corner of the couch to go get your master's and then start your life.

[223] I don't like that alternative.

[224] This is the Ramsey show.

[225] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[226] Hey good folks, the back -to -school madness is upon us.

[227] It's hitting us right now.

[228] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[229] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[230] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[231] Here's what I've learned.

[232] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[233] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[234] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[235] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[236] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

[237] BetterHelp is 100 % online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.

[238] It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

[239] And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos.

[240] In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first.

[241] Never skip therapy day.

[242] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[243] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Deloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[244] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[245] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, Personality is my co -host today.

[246] Come by and visit us any time you'd like here at Ramsey.

[247] We're about 12 miles south of downtown Nashville in a wonderful town called Franklin, Tennessee.

[248] and the lobby is open to the public.

[249] We do this show on the glass from 1 to 4 central time Monday through Friday.

[250] The homemade cookies and the coffee are on us, and so the place smells like Mama's Kitchen when you walk in, not corporate America.

[251] And so come in and hang out with us.

[252] We'd love to have you.

[253] And in the middle of that lobby is an official thing called the Debt Free Stage, and it's where people do their debt -free screams.

[254] Gregory and Emily are on it, which can only mean one thing, that they're here to do a debt -free scream where do you guys live Tampa Florida welcome good to have you welcome to Nashville and how much debt have you paid off 225 ,000 in the last two years oh oh love it in your range of income during that two years was around 220 to 250 cool what do you all do for a living I'm a project manager real estate development and I'm a nurse very good well good great careers well done fabulous income 225 ,000 thousand bucks you got after it man your ratios you guys were on beans and rice that's pretty serious what was the 225 what'd you pay off the house oh I'm looking at weirdos paid for house love it way to go you guys way to go excellent so what in the world what's this house worth probably around 550 very cool and how much in your retirement accounts and nest egg just under 600 so I'm looking at baby steps millionaires too How old are you, weirdos?

[255] I just turned 43.

[256] Wow.

[257] I'm 40.

[258] All right.

[259] And you're a millionaire and you don't have a house payment.

[260] Nothing.

[261] That's what I mean by weird.

[262] That's weird.

[263] Very weird.

[264] So, strange.

[265] I love it.

[266] So what happened?

[267] Why'd you decide to pay the house off?

[268] Well, our story began in 2007 when I was traveling a lot for work, listening to the radio, hearing Ramsey.

[269] And then 2010, I got the book.

[270] I'm like, we've got to read this book.

[271] I've been listening to this guy for years now, and Emily read the book, and then she's like, we've got to sell the car.

[272] Oh.

[273] And where to go, Emily.

[274] I was like, I'm not selling my car.

[275] Sorry I made you read the book.

[276] And then six months later, I read the book, and she overheard me talking to my mom saying, we're selling the car.

[277] And she's like, what do you mean we're selling the car?

[278] That was my idea six months ago.

[279] She's right.

[280] It was her idea.

[281] I like it.

[282] So that started the whole process.

[283] Right.

[284] And we got, we had about 100 ,000 in debt that we paid off within two years back then.

[285] And we've been working the steps over the last 13 years.

[286] And the last two years, we knocked out the house.

[287] Yeah, that's about the typical timeline, although y 'all are a little younger than normal.

[288] But typically it takes people somewhere around 10 years to do the whole plan.

[289] And that's debt free, then build your emergency fund, then be putting 15 % away, then pay on the house extra.

[290] And then knocked out.

[291] the house really fast you leaned into the house though this is these numbers are not you sacrificed to do this quick and the kids college fund they're set so i mean we got this is generational wow way to go y 'all what sparked this in you the last two years to pay your house off we were we've been on the plan and we'd say we just need to focus and uh focused intensity and times god equals momentum and we just made it happen i love it very cool well congratulations Congratulations, you two.

[292] Thank you.

[293] How's it feel to not have a payment in the world?

[294] I mean, millionaires of 40.

[295] Pretty amazing.

[296] It's crazy.

[297] I mean, you did this.

[298] I mean, no, everybody knows there's too much inflation.

[299] Everybody knows the stock market's crazy.

[300] Everybody knows, everybody knows, everybody knows it can't be done.

[301] But you did it.

[302] I'm so impressed.

[303] Well done.

[304] You swam upstream in a culture full of toxic negativity.

[305] That's right.

[306] Way to go, you guys.

[307] What's it like going to work with your fellow nurses who are still paying back their school loans, 25 years after taking them out?

[308] It's crazy.

[309] yeah you got to get them to sell the car all right so what's the biggest fight y 'all got in over the last decade as you're navigating this so when we first started um we were always going out to eat and then she's like well we can't go out to eat because there's no more money i'm like what do you mean there's no more money we have you know this was before we started the plan and that's when we were like we're fighting over money we need to get serious and And I think it was over food, honestly.

[310] Over you wanted to go out to eat.

[311] That's what it was.

[312] Yeah, that's what it was.

[313] Let's get right down to it.

[314] The guy whose idea was to sell the car after his wife had the idea.

[315] That's the most typical husband thing.

[316] It really is.

[317] You guys are so fun.

[318] Way to go.

[319] I'm proud of you.

[320] Thank you.

[321] Who was cheering you on?

[322] Our kids.

[323] Our kids, our parents, family.

[324] So you had some good support.

[325] then anybody call you crazy everybody everybody all those broke people you know if broke people are making fun of your financial plan boys and girls you are on track so just tell you how that works way to go y 'all way to go if you are sitting down at a table with a couple who's just turned 33 and 30 and they're starting to fight about dinners or starting to fight about stress they're starting to fight about what soccer league little timmy's going to play and what would you tell them I would ask them if they think there's a problem.

[326] Because if they don't think there's a problem, then there's no problem.

[327] I think that's been a lot for us when we've been talking to people over the years.

[328] If they don't think there's a problem and that they just want to live in that cycle on the hamster wheel, then they're never going to be able to change.

[329] So I think it's a hard issue maybe.

[330] And if they look at you and say, yeah, we're ready to change.

[331] Can you help?

[332] What would you tell them?

[333] What's the most important thing that they could do?

[334] get on a budget live act your wage there you go live on less than you make a concept of congress can't grasp way to go you guys wow very impressive very impressive very impressive very impressive cool cool so the book that was the whole thing total money makeover book and just listen to the radio that's right yeah we we just started doing the envelopes and uh paying everything with cash and And what else do we do?

[335] That's pretty simple.

[336] It's just pretty simple.

[337] I mean, there's nothing complicated here, is there?

[338] I think that's the biggest problem with it is it's too simple.

[339] People that are way too smart think that it's too common.

[340] There must be a, you know.

[341] Must be a shortcut.

[342] Short cut.

[343] There's no shortcut.

[344] Yeah.

[345] No shortcut to any place it's worth going.

[346] Beverly Seals said, way to go.

[347] Good job, guys.

[348] All right.

[349] Hey, we've got a couple of years of every dollar.

[350] subscription for you pay for your every dollar budgeting since budgeting's a big deal to y 'all and uh you can either use them or pass them around to get somebody else started however you want to do our gift for you to say thank you for coming all the way from tampa florida to do your debt -free scream gregory and emily tampa florida 10 years later the last two years they paid off 225 000 net worth approaching one and a half million dollars at 40 years old following the baby steps.

[351] There it is, ladies and gentlemen.

[352] It's not any harder.

[353] It's not any easier than that.

[354] It's harder than doing it the other way, but it's easier than doing it the other way.

[355] You guys, count it down.

[356] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[357] Three, two, one.

[358] Glory to God, we're dead free!

[359] Yeah!

[360] That's how it's done, ladies and gentlemen.

[361] That's how they do it in Tampa, Florida.

[362] I'm putting a note down.

[363] There's got to be a psychological construct and maybe some of my fellow nerds can write into the, in the show, leave a comment.

[364] But there has to be some sort of psychological path that we feel like the more complex it is, the more right it must be.

[365] Oh, yeah.

[366] And if it's just too easy, then it's just too easy.

[367] We're going to pass on that.

[368] Actually, I was working through the content for the investing essential seminar that George and I are doing tomorrow night and the next night.

[369] And one of the principles I'm going to tell folks is that in studying and hanging out with people with, you know, $5, $10, $20, $30 million net worth, the thing that has always kind of taken me aback is how primitive and simple they're investing is.

[370] It's so simple.

[371] They just, they have no desire to be complicated.

[372] And I think that's how they got all their money.

[373] That's the same with people who are physically fit, who have great marriages.

[374] It's usually pretty simple.

[375] Yeah, it's pretty simple.

[376] Like, be nice.

[377] Be kind.

[378] Exercise.

[379] Eat less.

[380] Eat less.

[381] Yeah.

[382] Yeah.

[383] It's hard.

[384] Yeah.

[385] This is the Ramsey show.

[386] One of the questions I get all the time is, which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy?

[387] A valid question, since there are hundreds of companies out there with rates all over the place and riders and add -ons that are simply a waste of money.

[388] You need to get this done and make the right decision.

[389] That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 25 years is, Zander Insurance.

[390] Zander is a broker who shops the top term life companies for you and finds the best rates available from the only plans I recommend.

[391] They also save you time, whether you want to work online, over the phone, or via text, their team will cater to your needs and help you make the right decision.

[392] This is an absolute necessity and Zander has made the process easy and convenient.

[393] Call them at 800 356, 4282, or visit zander .com for instant online quotes.

[394] Dr. John Deloney -Ramsey, Personality, is my co -host today.

[395] Thank you for joining us, America.

[396] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[397] Corey is with us in Washington, D .C. Hi, Corey.

[398] How are you?

[399] Hi, I'm all thanks.

[400] How are you?

[401] Better than I deserve.

[402] What's up?

[403] I am trying to figure out how to, get out of a stuck situation.

[404] I'm living, um, I went through a divorce, which was a really terrible relationship and jumped into my, um, mother's home, um, for the time being, which has been way too long now.

[405] Um, and I, in the process, I came in to her home with $50 ,000 in credit card debt and a car loan, which I've been paid off.

[406] Um, I've now paid off all the credit card debt and all the, all the, all the, all the, and the car both.

[407] Yes.

[408] All that's, way to Oh, how long have you been there?

[409] I have been here for six years.

[410] Oh.

[411] So I've paid that off and I've saved.

[412] And I went back to school all in that time and got a decent job and now make three -time the amount that I was.

[413] What are you making?

[414] What I first started my job?

[415] Now I make $118.

[416] Why are you still there?

[417] Because this market here, I started looking in 2020 for homes.

[418] I'd been outbid several times.

[419] times by like $40 ,000.

[420] How old are you?

[421] 45.

[422] Okay.

[423] Why have you not gone and just rented something?

[424] You're debt -free and you make $120 ,000 a year.

[425] You can rent something.

[426] Yeah, the rentals around here for a three -bedroom.

[427] I have three -bedroom.

[428] I have three -kids and myself.

[429] For a three -bedroom, it's about $3 ,000 a month.

[430] So at that point, I thought I was just throwing away money.

[431] My income has gone up each year pretty substantially.

[432] So I keep feeling.

[433] like I'm chasing the carrot, I get to like a point where I could potentially make it work, and then the rents go up and the mortgage, the prices on the houses go up, and of course the interest rates are up.

[434] So I feel like I can never just get a grasp on something that I can actually move comfortably into.

[435] So now I'm trying to figure out, do I just put everything on hold as far as trying to buy a home?

[436] No, the secret to happiness is lower expectations.

[437] you're trying to move into a neighborhood in an area that your income does not allow you to do understood and you probably won't be able to catch that carrot and I don't want you being 55 and living with your mother I don't want your children graduate from high school living with their grandmother yeah and that's the other thing I have nothing saved up for them to go to school but the point is that you have you have painted yourself a world where you have decided that you are trapped by housing prices and rental prices.

[438] Okay.

[439] And you're not.

[440] With, with, so I get paid biweekly and I get paid about $2 ,600.

[441] Again, my income just went up in January.

[442] I was getting paid several hundred less per month last year and a year before.

[443] So with that, what can I afford?

[444] because I keep looking at all these other bills.

[445] If I understood you right, you're debt -free, and you have how much saved?

[446] About six.

[447] It's close to 60.

[448] And you make $118 ,000 a year, and you have three children.

[449] Did I understand all of that right?

[450] Yes.

[451] And you did all of that in six years coming out of a broken, toxic, horrible marriage.

[452] I'm so proud of you.

[453] And you've got a degree.

[454] You're freaking amazing.

[455] Well done.

[456] Thank you.

[457] You've really accomplished a lot here.

[458] and the the thing i think i'm hearing and i might be wrong cori but i think i'm hearing that um that probably in the marriage and and definitely with mom the home that you're living in or both nicer than the home that you can afford now and you're having trouble with that um probably yeah i've definitely looked at lowering you know some of my living you know what i'm used to but yeah um the home that your mom is in now did you grow up in that home no okay so the home you grew up in was not as nice as the home that you're currently staying in no and you're not damaged because of that yeah i wouldn't i mean this house is okay it's not like fantastic or anything like that could you afford to buy it if it was on the market no okay that's your childhood home though you might and your children will not be damaged if they move into a home that's not something off of the the real estate channel on you know being redone by chip and Joanna okay so I want you to get your toe in the water in some kind of piece of real estate and establish sustainability of your own life whether that's an inexpensive rental and you have a little bit too far of a commute or it's not a stellar piece of property this that lines up with all of your all of your wants but but does cover your needs.

[459] But I think you've set your, I think the reason you're chasing the carrot is you set the carrot pretty far out on the stick.

[460] And I'm going to pull the carrot back in and grab a hold of it and take a bite out of it.

[461] I think it's probably both and it's moved the carrot out and the housing market.

[462] It's gotten tough, especially in D .C. I'm not saying it's not tough.

[463] But I'm saying the way she can enter the market makes $120 ,000 a year with a $60 ,000 down payment is probably not.

[464] I mean, D .C. is super.

[465] expensive right you're going to be outside of dc you're not you're not buying a place that's you're not buying a place in dc proper you're not buying a place in um la or san francisco you know that used to be when you made a hundred thousand dollars a year you'd made it but not anymore right and not with housing prices being what they are and so you're in a market where uh your expectations were burst on based on your fabulous progress that you've made i'm very proud of you but it may mean that you go somewhere else.

[466] And Dave, this is like a thing that I want to be emphatic about.

[467] There's going to be things you want to give your kids.

[468] Like she even mentioned, I don't even have any college savings.

[469] I don't have this.

[470] I don't have this.

[471] Your kids can share a room.

[472] Your kids can put themselves through college.

[473] Your kids can do so much.

[474] What her kids have that I don't think she is recognized yet is they have a mom who's a warrior who is extraordinary.

[475] Yes.

[476] The greatest gift my parents gave me. was not college.

[477] They didn't have the money to pay for college.

[478] It wasn't a car.

[479] It was, it wasn't in those things.

[480] It was, I had two parents that always scratched and clawed and both of them had midlife career changes and I watched them flourish.

[481] And lo and behold, this opportunity came up when I had a career and I had the courage to go do something else and I had the work ethic and all the stuff.

[482] That's what she's given her kids and it's not something you can buy.

[483] It's something you witness.

[484] And so go get a townhome if that's all you can afford and two of your kids can share rooms and they're going to be fine because they've got an incredible mom who loves them and they're watching you blaze a path that's the greatest gift you can give your kids it just is all the other stuff's gravy the number of people that shared a bedroom with a sibling that ended up in counseling because of that alone is zero there's a lot of kids i'm telling you right now i just had this conversation this weekend um in utah with the behavior services team there's a lot of people in counseling because they have never shared a room they've never had to negotiate anything other than whatever they want whenever they want it and then they go to college or then they get married and their whole universe explodes because somebody else has a different opinion about something because somebody said oh the access of the world does not run through the top of your little head who knew I've talked to every residence hall director on planet earth that I've ever met and I've always asked them just privately shared rooms or single rooms I've never had one say the right thing to do developmentally for a college kid is to share a room I can't sell it anymore because these kids are coming from their own bedrooms and their own bathrooms and their own whirlpool tub so i have to make these single ones but if it was if i was a king for a day you mean there's not a skylight everybody has to to share room can we get the sushi delivered to our dorm room no yes kids can share rooms they're so resilient especially when you have a mom like that so yeah um you've given them a gift corey they can change schools it's it's okay it's okay you've given them a gift by stepping out of a horrible situation and then standing knee -deep in that manure and flourishing.

[485] Yeah, it's amazing.

[486] And using that as fertilizer and have grown and grown and grown and grown.

[487] I'm so proud of you.

[488] You're an amazing lady.

[489] I think your real estate is just, I think your problem is unrealistic expectations with your numbers.

[490] So that's going to mean you either, that you change probably the neighborhood you've been looking in, whether it would be for buying or for renting.

[491] and it may be a long commute, it may mean a complete move, it may mean a lot of other things.

[492] And that's not to say, I think, that Washington, D .C. real estate's cheap.

[493] It's quite the opposite.

[494] It's basically crazy.

[495] This is The Ramsey Show.

[496] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people, build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[497] The phone number is 3 ,8 -825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[498] Dr. John Deloney, number one best -selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney show, is my co -host today.

[499] Open phones at 3 -8 -8 -25 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[500] That's AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -5.

[501] Penny is with us.

[502] Penny is in Phoenix, Arizona.

[503] Hi, Penny.

[504] How are you?

[505] I'm okay.

[506] How are you?

[507] Better than I. deserve.

[508] What's up?

[509] I listen to one occasion.

[510] I hear a lot about how you encourage couples, spouses to combine their incomes, and that's one of the better ways to build wealth is when you have your spouse with you, your combined everything.

[511] And I'm feeling very emotional and discouraged.

[512] I'm 54 and I make 50 ,000 a year, and I just don't have a spouse, and so I feel very afraid.

[513] Are you afraid of the money?

[514] Are you afraid of growing old alone?

[515] Like, where's that fear rest, or is that all of it?

[516] It's, I love the job I do, but I'm afraid I'm not going to have money for retirement.

[517] And I apologize.

[518] No, I don't apologize.

[519] Is that fear real?

[520] I mean, like, if you looked at the math problem of it all?

[521] Well, I'm hoping you can tell me that I'm overreacting.

[522] I don't think I am.

[523] So I rent an apartment.

[524] It's about $1 ,700 a month.

[525] Before that, I was just renting rooms at Airbnb.

[526] What do you do for living?

[527] I'm in human resources.

[528] Human resources.

[529] Doing what?

[530] Yes.

[531] On boarding.

[532] Okay.

[533] And you make $50 ,000 a year and you're 54 years old.

[534] Yes.

[535] And you're single.

[536] Have you ever been married?

[537] Yes.

[538] I've been married, divorced for a decade.

[539] Okay.

[540] All right.

[541] I had money.

[542] No, let me go back in a step, though, in the way you came on the air.

[543] And I want to make sure, when we're talking with couples, we think, it's imperative that couples combine their finances.

[544] We are not saying it is imperative to be married to bill wealth.

[545] There are lots of very accomplished single ladies and gentlemen that build wealth on their own.

[546] It's what we're talking about is a marriage issue of combining your finances when you're married.

[547] But when you're single, and it does not prohibit you from becoming wealthy.

[548] Okay.

[549] Okay.

[550] So let's just take that off the table.

[551] We never said that.

[552] But it, I mean, I've just been talking to you for a moment.

[553] So I don't know you inside and out.

[554] It kind of feels like that you're still really hurting from the divorce.

[555] Am I wrong?

[556] Yeah, I am.

[557] Like your heart was broken, and there's not been a lot of healing in 10 years?

[558] That's true.

[559] Okay.

[560] All right.

[561] Because I'm trying to find out, I mean, you're really sad about that, and I understand that, and I don't blame you.

[562] I would be sad, too, because I told Sharon, if she leaves, I'm going with her.

[563] So, but because I don't think I could do it.

[564] You know, she said, you know, if I die, you'll be dead in a month.

[565] So it's like she didn't think I could find the way the refrigerator.

[566] But, yeah, so the, I, I, so I understand, you know, I get, I'm poking fun, not at you, but at myself, but I get how you, what you've been through is very hard for you, okay?

[567] So, but the answer to your overall concern is, um, can you prosper on $50 ,000 as a single lady, um, in Phoenix, Arizona paying $1 ,700 rent?

[568] Yes.

[569] You can retire with dignity.

[570] That is the answer to your question.

[571] Mathematically, you can't.

[572] If you made 100 ,000, would it be better?

[573] Yes.

[574] If you made 200 ,000, would it be even better?

[575] Yes.

[576] Okay.

[577] But, you know, or if you married someone who made 300 ,000, would it be even better?

[578] Yes.

[579] Mathematically, all of those are facts, but that doesn't mean that the normal progression of you doing onboarding in HR and moving up the ladder in an HR field studying, becoming very proficient, very self -confident, healing from your broken heart, having square shoulders, a nice smile and a square jaw, and sticking your nose into stuff and making a difference in this world, you will make a lot more money over time doing all of that.

[580] And during that time, you will be investing in saving and you can become, you can build a large enough nest egg to be okay.

[581] But I think I hear under this just this hurt that might be holding you back on a couple of those areas.

[582] Am I, am I, is, am I, I, I'm just feeling this with my heart, okay?

[583] No, that's true.

[584] I think I've come to that realization over the past couple years, and I have been grieving that whole relationship, so I'm acknowledging that, yes, but then I still go back to the math of wanting to buy a home and I couldn't qualify for enough.

[585] Yeah, it'd be tough.

[586] Phoenix Market, Phoenix Market's expensive.

[587] Unless you had a big downstroke, you're going to be driving from the outskirts to get a property cheap enough to do that on 50K.

[588] That's going to be tough.

[589] Yes, sir.

[590] I looked even on the outskirts.

[591] Yeah, it's going to be tough.

[592] Where I'd be driving an hour.

[593] Well, you can't drive north.

[594] Because it gets more expensive when you go north.

[595] Right.

[596] Going south is better.

[597] Out of Phoenix, I mean.

[598] Okay.

[599] Yeah, yeah.

[600] Don't head towards anything like a red rock.

[601] Stay away from those.

[602] They're very expensive.

[603] What is it about Phoenix where you feel like you're stuck?

[604] Why do you have to stay there?

[605] Actually, I would love to be in the south, but I have two children.

[606] They're actually going to be seniors.

[607] In a week, they'll be finishing their junior year or so they're, have one more year of high school.

[608] So I really don't want to do anything until they're out.

[609] And then they're going to be going away to college and you're going to be by yourself.

[610] You're going to be all by yourself.

[611] Yeah, and they're going to go somewhere.

[612] Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[613] You're about to get left again.

[614] Yes.

[615] And your body has a GPS pin and the time I got left last time.

[616] And it sounded every alarm you got.

[617] My son said he will go wherever I want to.

[618] go as long as he can get a job because that son learned that his job is to make sure mama's okay because nobody else was and that's not his job right right and hey mom you're allowed to be sad my son's about to graduate and I laugh as I use that word he's about to be done with eighth grade and if I think about it for 30 seconds I'll get all choked up right right you're not crazy you're not broken there's nothing wrong with you hey we're gonna we're gonna do two things okay one is i'm gonna put you into financial peace university so you can get your handle around the math and two is i'm send you a copy of john's book building a non -anxious life because there's several of the points in that book that are exactly where you're sitting and it's going to be very helpful to you you will read it in two days when you get it i promise you if you don't you're messing up and i'm going to give it all to you as our gift you're going to be okay penny it's going to be better than it feels like you're a good mom this is the ramsay show dr john deloney ramsay personality is my co -host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five proverb says hope deferred makes the heart sick when you don't have hope it's a sickness of heart and the odd thing is the proverb continues it says but when does comes, it is the tree of life.

[619] So the answer to hopelessness is a desire.

[620] And really what you end up is you end up figuring out what the core cause of your loss of hope is.

[621] And then you get into it.

[622] If the actual thing is math, then you look at the math.

[623] If the actual thing is a wound that is real, then you've got to look at that wound.

[624] and that may be causing you to not see the math like our last caller.

[625] Yeah, the only way to healing is through the pain.

[626] I have a friend who just had the heartbreaking misfortune of losing a child.

[627] And I'll remember a line he told me at the memorial service forever.

[628] He said, most people spend their entire life doing everything they can to go around and avoid pain.

[629] And he looked at me and said, I didn't get that choice.

[630] And so him and his wife held hands and walked directly through it.

[631] And that's the only way to healing.

[632] So, yeah, you're right.

[633] Hope is always on the other side.

[634] And that's why you have to have people in your life who've gone before you.

[635] And you might not be able to see it in the darkness, but you can hear their voice.

[636] You can see their tiny little light.

[637] And I'm just going to keep going that way because that's where it is.

[638] And sometimes it's math is an odd way.

[639] I mean, if I save $100 a month, at this age, I'm going to have X. Yeah.

[640] And X is okay.

[641] And sometimes it's 10 years out.

[642] I remember having my heart stopping when I did the math and it was like, it's 10 years I'm going to be okay at this current dollar amount, at this current saving rate.

[643] That's a scary thing, but that's the path.

[644] Let's go.

[645] Yeah, then game all.

[646] That's right.

[647] Game on.

[648] Yeah.

[649] The old country song, if you're going through hell, keep on going.

[650] Keep on going.

[651] That's it.

[652] Keep on going.

[653] Today's question comes from Isaac in Minnesota.

[654] All right, Isaac writes, how do we promote the baby steps to the friends and family when it feels like we cheated the process.

[655] A small inheritance propelled us into Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6, and it feels like we got to get out of jail free card.

[656] We've been hustling in Baby Step 2 for two years with our only consumer debt being credit cards.

[657] We paid off 10K while cash flowing our first baby and some car repairs.

[658] We budget every month, live below our means, and buy things at the speed of cash, but it feels like we cheated.

[659] Does an inheritance undermine the value of our financial testimony?

[660] I don't think so.

[661] The thing is this, you only have one story.

[662] It's your story.

[663] That's it.

[664] And really nobody can take that away from you.

[665] And this isn't like a catastrophe Olympics that whoever has the worst situation wins.

[666] Yeah.

[667] The goal is that people become free and y 'all got free.

[668] That's the story.

[669] Do you have to go through bankruptcy in order to learn the lessons that I learned going through bankruptcy?

[670] No. Do you have to go through drug rehab to figure out heroin's bad.

[671] for you?

[672] No. Maybe the testimony is you were doing smart stuff and God blessed it.

[673] I mean, maybe the testimony is you were walking along and it turns out you were walking on a moving sidewalk and God was pushing along under you while you were doing the right stuff.

[674] Because when you're faithful in the little things, you'll be given more to manage.

[675] Remember that one?

[676] That's the testimony.

[677] So I can tell you that there's a whole lot of stuff that as we have built, incredible wealth over the last 40 years and built an incredible business that I look back and I go, I'm really sure I didn't do that by myself.

[678] It's not like fake humility or something or humble brag.

[679] It's more like I'm intelligent enough to know I'm not that bright.

[680] You know, I mean, like you're smart enough to know Isaac in Minnesota that you didn't do this by yourself.

[681] But that doesn't destroy the fact that you were doing smart things along the way and somebody in your family did something smart because they could leave you an inheritance.

[682] You come from some, one of y 'all comes from somebody who is a saver.

[683] I don't think Rachel has a bad financial testimony and she's never been in debt.

[684] Well, so this is a, this is a cultural virus, Dave.

[685] And here's what it is.

[686] Okay.

[687] We are not allowed to celebrate.

[688] If you celebrate, If something good happens...

[689] You're bragging.

[690] Then you're a jerk.

[691] You have some sort of privilege that nobody else has.

[692] You have some sort of something that isn't fair.

[693] The only thing we're allowed to talk about in our culture is when things go bad.

[694] I have this.

[695] Oh, I've got this.

[696] Tony Robbins says our greatest addiction as a culture is to problems.

[697] Nobody's allowed to walk into a room and say, do my weekend was actually pretty good.

[698] My kids are healthy and the air conditioner worked.

[699] Because then you leave the room and they're like, but if you come in the room and you say, man can you believe it out there he's so real everybody thinks you're so authentic and real you're authentic and we have to have a space that's why whenever i tell people about making friends you got to have people you tell the hard stuff too but you got to have people you just call and celebrate with you know i i hadn't thought about that but one of the things very interesting i'll i'm i have a group of guys that i get with once a month and they're all uh they're all successful some of them are uber successful um there's uh four 14 of us and all of us have been married one time and are still married, except for two guys.

[700] Two guys have been through a divorce and a remarried, okay?

[701] Three, one's now currently single, we've gone through a divorce.

[702] So three out of 14, okay?

[703] But I've been with these guys for 15 years.

[704] And one of the rules in that group is ever so often, not every month when we get together, but about over three or four months, I stop everything in all the joke telling and all the cutting up and carrying on that we do and say, all right, everybody tell me something good.

[705] on.

[706] This is a place where we celebrate.

[707] That's right.

[708] And even those guys who are studs who are very successful, most of them, some of them, very, very successful, it's the only place they can celebrate.

[709] Because they're not allowed to anywhere else.

[710] They're not allowed to anywhere else.

[711] I never thought about that.

[712] Because we treasure that time all of us guys do, because I can't even get up and go, hey, you know, only time I can do something is a humble brag for marketing purposes, right, around here.

[713] But we just got done with entree, and it was super successful.

[714] There's nobody that you, Dave, can go, hey, can I just high -five you?

[715] I knocked this one out of the park.

[716] It went great.

[717] Our team just killed this.

[718] Yeah, we did great.

[719] It's like the best leadership event in the world right now.

[720] But who do you tell that to, right?

[721] You can't say anything.

[722] I'll say one of the greatest moments of friendship of my life.

[723] It's easily in the top five.

[724] When my first book went number one, I had a buddy that I called.

[725] And I said, hey, man, I just need to say this out loud to a friend.

[726] You and I talked to me and my mom, me and my wife, but I didn't remember to call.

[727] I called him, and he paused and he cheered so loud.

[728] He's like, I've known you for 30.

[729] You've been trying.

[730] You've been working so hard.

[731] Congratulations.

[732] And then he goes, hey, man, well, I got you.

[733] My bank just sold.

[734] And he ended up telling, and I was like, no, no, you can't lose your job.

[735] You're the most stable friend I have.

[736] And so he walked me through a really hard season.

[737] He was in.

[738] And my win did not come at the expense of his law.

[739] He was super happy for me, and I could be happy and sit in the crap with him.

[740] That's what friends do.

[741] That's so healthy.

[742] Right.

[743] So if you got a group of friends and family, they should cheer you.

[744] They know that you want to get out of debt and that you got a small inheritance.

[745] That should be the greatest moment that they're all celebrating with you.

[746] If you call the show and you tell me what you just told me right here, I'm going to cheer for you.

[747] That's right.

[748] We're going to be heartbroken that you lost somebody and we're going to cheer for you.

[749] A hundred percent of the time, yay.

[750] And how do you honor the person that left you the inheritance by doing this?

[751] something smart with it which is what you did and so um did you cheat to use your words no no you did not cheat you did not steal stop apologizing you didn't cheat um i mean you got a blessing uh and you know and you have a responsibility that comes with that blessing and that is to continue to do smart things with it um if you if you piss it away yeah you should be regretful You should have problems with that, but when you're doing smart things with it, you didn't cheat.

[752] So Solomon, King Solomon, built the temple for the people of Israel with his father's money.

[753] It was inherited money.

[754] Did that diminish his testimony?

[755] Nope.

[756] Gone down in history is the guy that built the temple.

[757] This is the Ramsey Show.

[758] I know it's hard for you people to grasp, but I have a very large and dominant inner nerd.

[759] I know you think it's all cool Dave and Dave's cool and all this, but he actually, when you get right down to it, is an unbelievable deep nerd.

[760] Absolutely.

[761] Nerds out.

[762] I'm pretty sure they got that, Dave.

[763] Mathematics.

[764] Pretty sure they got that.

[765] You think they already knew that?

[766] Okay.

[767] No one has ever been at home, but like, man, that guy's real cool.

[768] I got to see real cool.

[769] Cover of GQ coming up, I'm just saying.

[770] but no never never happening nope not happening dads are us uh papa dave are us but anyway i have had fun me and my inner nerd my dominant inner nerd self and george george is a big time nerd george is a bigger nerd than i realized so george and i have been working on this content and building out with our content team the the arc the teaching arc so that the message is clear and deliverable on investing, Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials.

[771] And truthfully, we were going through the walkthrough a while ago, and this is just nerd fun.

[772] It's nerd fun.

[773] If you're not a nerd, it's not going to, you're going to go to sleep.

[774] You're going to get a headache.

[775] But if you're, if you got an inner nerd, you're going to love this investing essentials thing I'm doing tomorrow night and the next night.

[776] Two hours on Tuesday night, the 21st, two hours on Tuesday night, the 22nd.

[777] And we're going through all the real estate stuff, nerd and out.

[778] We're going through all the mutual fund stuff and all the investment principles that the very wealthy people that I know and run around with and me use, not some broke kid in his mother's basement on TikTok.

[779] This is like real people that have money that do investing.

[780] And here's how they do it.

[781] It's $199.

[782] It's Tuesday night, Wednesday night this week, 21, 22 May. Nerdville.

[783] That's it.

[784] Dave Ramsey's Investing Essential.

[785] I actually we were literally going through the walkthrough about two hours ago on some of the material and I was told these guys I said I am we need to put up a disclaimer I am not responsible for people falling asleep during this yeah if you are out of Xanax or Ambien go ahead and buy this you'll be out you'll be but the nerds they're out there'll be caffeinated up they'll be leaning in their little pencil marks on their hands they're going to love it for those of you on the fence I walked into a planning meeting the other day and I'll be leaning in there's little pencil marks on their hands I will tell you this for those of you on the fence I walked into a planning meeting the other day because I was the next meeting with one of our content strategists and I saw some of the slides up there and I said, what's that one?

[786] And they explained it to me and I immediately did the math on my place and that has already spurred a conversation with my wife.

[787] Oh, wow.

[788] So like, I mean, I walked in.

[789] But you're a nerd.

[790] I'm a nerd, but I'm not a math nerve.

[791] You're a psychological nerve.

[792] Right.

[793] I like to put this into the statistics programs and let that nerd it out for me. But like, I already walked away with something just because I walked into the meeting early.

[794] So this is cool stuff, man. It's fun.

[795] Ramsey Solutions .com slash events.

[796] Dave Ramsey's essential, investing essential, stuff we've never done before on real estate and investing.

[797] Certainly, Baby Step 7 and beyond for sure.

[798] We're going to get into that stuff or at least showing you when you get there what it should be, right?

[799] You don't have to be there to watch it.

[800] But, hey, we would love to have you.

[801] I'm being amazed how many tickets sold.

[802] There's a lot of you people out there are nerds.

[803] I'm just saying.

[804] All right, Shannon's in Austin, Texas.

[805] Hey, Shannon, what's up?

[806] Hello, how are you?

[807] Better than I deserve.

[808] How can I help?

[809] Good.

[810] I just have a couple questions.

[811] So I'm currently working.

[812] I have one child with my husband.

[813] We're currently pregnant with our second, and we're just really trying to figure out how to best set our family at for success.

[814] I currently make 83, and my husband did make 115 and just got promoted to where he's making 200.

[815] Yeah, so we're super excited for that.

[816] And so we have, as a family, decided to have me quit my job and become a stay -at -home mom come July.

[817] And so we have no debt.

[818] All of our cars are paid off.

[819] So the only debt that we do have is our house, which we could sell for $400.

[820] We currently owe $1 .90 on it.

[821] And so my question really to you and just seeing what's, Mark in the future is we want to be able to have this house for an investment.

[822] Do we put everything we can towards it for the next three to four years, pay it off, or we're wanting to move closer to family about an hour south?

[823] Do we sell it and use that amount that we could get about $200 ,000 onto a house that we're wanting to actually grow into and be closer to family?

[824] Okay, so if you sell the house after the baby comes, we don't move anybody when they're pregnant um i'm smarter than that and um but but once the baby comes if you put the house on the market and sold it and move south now you have a husband makes 200 you're debt free except the house are you moving up in house we would currently our house um so you would go from 200 000 in debt now on the house to what how much debt in the move um i would probably say that our house that we would look at down south um would be roughly 500 and you're 400 now that's correct we so you would have a 300 ,000 I mean you'd have a you'd have a 200 ,000 mortgage you got 200 now 190 right yeah okay so let's up that by 100 then because you're up in the price by 100 so now you've got a 300 ,000 dollar mortgage instead of a 200 ,000 mortgage you make 100 a year can you pay that off in prosper yes you can do that do you think it'd be smarter to pay it off in three to four years or make the move and I'd make the move yeah I think you're trying to do trying to do too much start thinking about you're not going to keep the house you're in now it doesn't matter so well they want to keep it in rent it one day you're not going to be able to do that you're not going to have the money to do that because you're not going to I'm not going to tell you to keep a rental house that's paid for and then go borrow on your personal residence because you kept up rental house that's the same thing as borrowing on a paid -for house to buy a rental.

[825] Not a chance.

[826] Not a chance.

[827] So you're not going to have the money to keep that house.

[828] Gotcha.

[829] Okay.

[830] And even if we tried to save as much as we could why we're actually paying it off.

[831] You still won't have the money to pay cash for another house.

[832] And then you'd be effectively borrowing on your home to buy a rental.

[833] And we'd never do that.

[834] You'd never do that.

[835] If you had a paid -for house, you're not going to borrow on it with two little kids running around and put that house at risk to go buy a rental no no so just sell it move sell it move and then get that one paid off and when that one's paid off someday that 300 000 is paid off you making 200 and he's going to get more raises and when he gets all that paid off then start saving and pay and pay cash for your first rental but that's a little ways out okay that's a little ways out and you don't want to be landlords an hour away anyway it's a long that's a long hard drive yeah yeah yeah Yeah, that's just your, that's, that's landlord by default, not by plan.

[836] You fell backward into it instead of sitting there going proactively leaning towards it.

[837] And so that's what I mean.

[838] But yeah, you're doing great.

[839] Congrats.

[840] And congrats on the new baby on the way.

[841] What a great time of life for you guys.

[842] And he's making bank.

[843] He goes from, he goes to 115 all the way to 200.

[844] Ching, Ching, very nice, very nice.

[845] I like it.

[846] I like it a lot.

[847] Daniel's in Baltimore.

[848] Daniel, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[849] Dave and John, pleasure to be speaking to you guys today.

[850] Really excited.

[851] You too.

[852] How can we help?

[853] So for a little bit of context for you guys, my fiancé and I are getting married on June 8.

[854] Yay!

[855] We are moving on June 1st for our apartment.

[856] And about a week ago, I got the news that my car needs a new engine.

[857] so I just want to see if it's a smart time to purchase a new to us car or if we should write it out as a one car family for a little bit what's your income uh so we both work in sales and last year we did a hundred and six thousand combined yep okay and you have any money saved to buy a car with so we can for a car are nothing saved specifically, but we can get our hands on $14 ,000 between our Q bank account, a general savings account we have.

[858] Sell the piece of junk that the engine blew in, get what you can out of it, put $5 ,000 together and go get you a little something to limp along in for your first six or eight months of marriage, and then save up and move up in car.

[859] You got five grand, but do you need to go get a $30 ,000 car?

[860] crap no do you need a car payment no but five thousand dollar car to get around and get rid of that piece of junk yeah i would do that this is the ramsay show dr john deloney ramsay personality is my co -host open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five matt is in seattle hi matt welcome to the ramsie show well thank you thanks for having me um i got a question for you so i currently have three jobs and spend more than 12 hours a day working.

[861] And I save and invest about half my income.

[862] So I'm saving about $100 ,000 a year.

[863] So financially we're sound, but it comes with a cost.

[864] So I'm not spending enough time with my children, and my health is deteriorating.

[865] Well, I'm not dying, but it's impacting negatively.

[866] How much do you have in savings in your investments?

[867] Yeah, so I, so with, I've been doing this, I've been having three jobs for about five years now, or going into six years.

[868] So you put a half million dollars away?

[869] Yeah, well, yeah, exactly.

[870] So with that money, I've bought four homes, one primary residence and three single -family homes, and I'm renting it all out right now.

[871] Okay, and what are the three single -family homes worth?

[872] Wealthy, on average, about $600 ,000.

[873] Each?

[874] And I bought it for about, yeah, correct.

[875] Okay, so the three rental property, are worth $1 .8 million and they're paid for?

[876] No, no, no, no. About, about 40, I have about 40 % equity on each house.

[877] Oh, so you still have debt on them.

[878] Okay.

[879] Okay, so, wait a half a million.

[880] Okay.

[881] So when it comes to equity, I have about 1 .3 in all those four houses.

[882] Gotcha.

[883] And I have about $350 ,000 in savings.

[884] So what's your question about?

[885] an IRA combined.

[886] Yeah, so I just turned 40, and I've been happy so far, but like, I just have 40 this year.

[887] And since then, I've been thinking about a lot of stuff.

[888] Like, is this, am I, am I doing a good thing?

[889] And initially I thought, um, uh, I'm being the right thing for the family, but I'm starting to think about myself to, I think I'm just kind of going through the midlife crisis.

[890] But also, so when I think about creating those two jobs, um, um, uh, I'm starting to think about creating those two jobs, but thought of living paycheck to paycheck terrifies me. Honey, you're not living paycheck to paycheck.

[891] You're putting $100 ,000 away.

[892] Quitting two jobs is not going to make you paycheck to paycheck.

[893] You're so exaggerating that.

[894] Well, if I, after I put all the, like, next out on 401K and IRA, I'm not going to be shaping any money at all.

[895] Oh, on a monthly basis.

[896] So back off of your investing.

[897] You only got $2 million.

[898] You're not living paycheck to paycheck.

[899] That's a bogus emotional response.

[900] Why are you afraid to sit at home with your family, dude?

[901] Yeah.

[902] Why?

[903] Why?

[904] Well, initially, I was part of like fire movement, but I'm thinking a lot of things can happen in the future.

[905] Yeah, fire movement burned down.

[906] Did you notice?

[907] It burned to the ground.

[908] It burned around people's ears because they were trying to do something that wasn't sustainable.

[909] What you're doing is not sustainable.

[910] What you're doing is not sustainable.

[911] You didn't build a life.

[912] You built a financial portfolio.

[913] And now your brain is waking up and saying, go build a life.

[914] And we're saying, yes, go build a life.

[915] Here's what I promise you do.

[916] I agree with your brain.

[917] When you're 50, you can hand the kids a key to a rental house.

[918] I promise you.

[919] they would have exchanged it for time with their dad.

[920] And by the way, that's a false dichotomy because you work hard.

[921] You're still going to be able to offer your kids a pretty extraordinary life financially and you get to spend time with your kids.

[922] I think you're scared to go home and be with your family.

[923] Am I wrong?

[924] Well, are you afraid to admit that the fire thing you bought into sucked?

[925] And also, I think it has to do with my ego.

[926] Like I just feel like I'm successful and superior.

[927] And you have four houses worth one point.

[928] $2 .3 million.

[929] Your net worth is $2 million and you're 40 years old.

[930] Ding, ding, you got the bell.

[931] You're on the bell.

[932] You're done.

[933] If you don't do anything else, you're going to be worth $20 million at 65.

[934] If you just let the investments that you have grow, that's all.

[935] There's no need to panic here.

[936] And by the way, people working and enjoying their work and going to work and having meaning as long as they're able is not bad i intend to be on this microphone until i don't make sense now i don't want to be one of those guys that doesn't make sense we've seen those and they're dangerous but um yeah so anyway yeah we need to get off at that point but uh no you dude yeah your brain is telling you what to do you already know what to do all i'm telling you is is your emotions are exaggerating that you're like going to be starving to death or something and living paycheck to paycheck.

[937] Not even close.

[938] How much of...

[939] Oh, here's an idea.

[940] Quit.

[941] And if a year from now you think you're going to be homeless or something, go back to work.

[942] Three different jobs.

[943] You can get those jobs right back.

[944] Those kinds of jobs are always waiting.

[945] How much of this stress, Dave?

[946] Because I've never lived this life.

[947] You keep telling yourself with your neocortex, the, you're thinking part of your brain, I'm worth $1 .3 million.

[948] I'm worth $1 .3 million, but your amygdala, the threat detection part of your brain says you still owe $900 ,000 on these four houses.

[949] You still owe money.

[950] You still owe money.

[951] And every month, no matter what your net worth is or how much money you have coming in, your brain knows you're still on the hook for all these properties.

[952] That's got to weigh you down, doesn't it?

[953] That's probably part of it.

[954] But I think he's been running at breakneck speed.

[955] He didn't even notice that part.

[956] That's my opinion, just talking to him.

[957] He's just exhausted.

[958] I think he's just, no, he was trying to run.

[959] And he thought there was an end game.

[960] Tell me about fire.

[961] Fire is.

[962] Did they retire young?

[963] The retire at 40.

[964] Okay.

[965] I'm not after work again.

[966] And the numbers don't work.

[967] It does you people.

[968] And because the problem with money like when you view money that way is money's a bully in the school yard.

[969] As soon as you say, hit me in the nose, you step back.

[970] If you cross this line, I'm going to hit you.

[971] You step across the line, he steps back and draws another line.

[972] Says, if you cross this line, then I'm going to hit you.

[973] And that's what money does.

[974] It keeps, keeps, because.

[975] there's always another one.

[976] There's always a bigger thing.

[977] There's always a different thing.

[978] There's always a reason.

[979] There's always inflation.

[980] There's always a better car.

[981] There's always a, oh, mama, mama wanted a house in the mountains.

[982] there's always, it doesn't matter where you get to.

[983] There's always another one.

[984] And a bigger one and a shinier one and a different.

[985] So you just can't get away from it.

[986] Once you get on that treadmill, you can't catch that carrot.

[987] It's impossible to catch.

[988] And so if you could maintain godliness with contentment, and say, okay, I'm going to live a lifestyle of $50 ,000 a year income, then you can build a big enough nest egg to quit.

[989] But you can, you're something about our psychology won't let us do it.

[990] We start out with that, and that's the math.

[991] But then by the time we get used to living on a $150 ,000 lifestyle, then I got to go back to a $50 ,000 lifestyle to quit, which is exactly what he's saying.

[992] He's saying, I'm going to be paycheck to be, He's not even close to paycheck to paycheck, but he's going to have to cut his lifestyle.

[993] He's going to have to drop his investing from $100 ,000 a year contribution.

[994] Now, that was in addition to maxing out everything else.

[995] Yeah, yeah.

[996] So he can still max out everything.

[997] And you can't do $100 ,000 extra.

[998] Extra.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] And that's paycheck to paycheck.

[1001] That's not paycheck to paycheck.

[1002] There's also this, you get to be 40 and you got $2 million and you thought it was going to feel a different way.

[1003] That's true.

[1004] You thought it was going to be a billion.

[1005] You thought you were going to do nothing, and doing nothing will kill you.

[1006] It's one of the things I had to outline with all these little communists that are coming out of college, have to explain to them that a billionaire is not the same thing as a millionaire.

[1007] A millionaire, a billion is a thousand million.

[1008] Billionaires have four houses, a jet, and seven cars.

[1009] Millionaires have two used Camrys and one house.

[1010] and it's paid for and they have $800 ,000 in their 401k.

[1011] That's a millionaire.

[1012] But a billionaire is a thousand million.

[1013] And people emotionally have these two things confused.

[1014] They think of some rap artist or whatever in a private jet, which they don't even know.

[1015] It's chartered.

[1016] But I mean, they think it's, oh, that's how it.

[1017] You don't live like that with a $3 million net worth.

[1018] You know, stupid.

[1019] jet would be more than that much less you know the whole i mean it's just like so that's not how it works it's the emotions of when i get to be a millionaire i'm going to be a billionaire no you're not you're going to be a millionaire two use and that's still a good thing to use camrys and eight hundred thousand in your 401k and a paid four five hundred thousand dollar house and a lot of laughter in your home ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding you're done this is the ramsie show live from the headquarters of ramsie solutions it's the ramsie show but we help people.

[1020] Build wealth.

[1021] Do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

[1022] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

[1023] Thank you for joining us.

[1024] Dr. John Deloney.

[1025] Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[1026] The phone numbers, AAA 825 -5 -225.

[1027] Flow is in Cincinnati.

[1028] Hi, Flo.

[1029] How are you?

[1030] I'm doing well, Dave.

[1031] Good.

[1032] How can I help?

[1033] Yes, so just a little context.

[1034] I'm tired of immigrants.

[1035] It's, uh, my dad moved here at 51.

[1036] My mom was 40.

[1037] I'm the first of five.

[1038] Uh, three out of five of us, making one into the six figures, two are still in school.

[1039] Uh, today, my dad is 75 and my mom is 64 and retirement is right around the corner.

[1040] So, you know, being that they moved here kind of later in life, we're trying to get a picture of what retirement looks like for both of them.

[1041] Um, my dad, he's retired, but working part time collecting social security.

[1042] My mom is about to retire.

[1043] So we're just trying to figure out between myself and my siblings, how do we help them retire in peace?

[1044] We've thought about maybe starting a fund to supplement their income monthly, but we're kind of lost as to where to even begin.

[1045] So your parents have been in the country, how long?

[1046] We moved here 2000, so about 24 years now.

[1047] Okay, and they've saved nothing?

[1048] My dad, when I checked last, all he has is social security.

[1049] So he's collecting about maybe 1 ,800 a month in social security.

[1050] And your mom?

[1051] My mom, she does have some retirement income.

[1052] I was just looking at it a couple weekends ago.

[1053] And I know she's going to be collecting in total.

[1054] I estimate about 5 ,500.

[1055] This is pre -taxed.

[1056] Okay, so they got $7 ,000 a month and they can't live on that?

[1057] Well, so here's the issue.

[1058] They also have a ton of debt.

[1059] Like, they have the Prant Plus one that I just found out about.

[1060] credit card debt, I forget to complete the total amount.

[1061] And also just a bunch of other, and they still have payments on the house that they're living in.

[1062] So we estimate that they're going to be, and then that doesn't include a cost for, like, health care when they retire.

[1063] So we know it's going to be tight, and we're just trying to make sure.

[1064] I don't know it's going to be tight.

[1065] I haven't heard any numbers that said tight yet.

[1066] How much is the parent plus loan?

[1067] My mom's, when I checked last was $35 ,000.

[1068] Your mom's is not a parent plus loan.

[1069] Your mom borrowed money for one of your siblings to go to school.

[1070] Yeah, that's correct, yeah.

[1071] Who's the sibling?

[1072] Oh, two of my sisters.

[1073] Okay, $35 ,000 for your sister to go to school, sisters.

[1074] That's correct.

[1075] Okay, and how much credit card debt?

[1076] $9 ,000.

[1077] Okay, $9 ,000 does not keep somebody that makes $7 ,000 a month from existing.

[1078] that's an exaggeration it's not even doesn't even show up on the radar and then how much is their house payment right now the house payment is 1300 a month okay all right 1300 a month can be paid out of 7 ,000 would you agree with that I think so okay and you could buy groceries and you could buy lights and water and you could learn to live on less than you make and cut up your stupid credit cards yeah if your sisters take over the student loans and pay them yeah which is not a bad idea at all, or some of y 'all jump on it together and knock out the student loans.

[1079] And then if you want to reach over and pay off $9 ,000 with the credit cards, that's fine, is under the obligation that they don't use them ever again and they close the accounts and they get debit cards and they live on a budget, they can make it on $7 ,000 and have a very nice retirement.

[1080] Yeah.

[1081] And then my dad right now, he's 75, so he's retired and working part -time and basically supplementing his Social Security that he's getting off.

[1082] Yeah.

[1083] But here's the thing.

[1084] These people don't manage their money.

[1085] And that's what scares you.

[1086] And it should scare you because if you think you're going to be able to supplement enough to get to backfill for somebody that won't take care of their money, you can't possibly give somebody that much money.

[1087] Look at Congress.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] Same thing.

[1090] You can't give them enough money to make them responsible.

[1091] They take billions and trillions of dollars.

[1092] and they're still idiots and your mom and dad have got to not do this they've got to get control because it's unreasonable that someone that comes here and develops a nice pension and a nice social security over the last 24 years can't live on $7 ,000 a year with a $1 ,300 house payment and no debt payments because we cut up their credit cards or kids paid off one card one kid or two paid off the credit cards the sisters picked up the student loans they can live on this but they're going to have to get their crap together and that's the conversation you all don't want to have, but you've got to have.

[1093] You think it would be a good idea to, because we, we've tried to have it, but it kind of, especially my daddy, he's a little resistant to really opening up and talking about the full picture.

[1094] So what I told you is, like, I think a partial reality.

[1095] I think there's even more behind the curtains that they haven't told us.

[1096] And I've been thinking about maybe, maybe we're not the right person that people are talking.

[1097] Maybe you need to talk to professionals.

[1098] Yeah.

[1099] Put them in with a coach.

[1100] Yeah, put them in with a coach.

[1101] I'll give you a coach to sit down with them as my gift to try to help them turn it around.

[1102] But you've got to get them to go over there and they've got to be willing to listen.

[1103] Hey, Flo, have you sat down and said, there's usually two ways this conversation can go.

[1104] Hey, dad, mom, I need you to tell me about your financial situation.

[1105] How much debt do y 'all have?

[1106] Or, hey, dad, y 'all are getting older.

[1107] You just retired.

[1108] And I can't sleep at night wondering what your situation's going.

[1109] going to be.

[1110] I'm scared to death for you guys.

[1111] I know how expensive things are.

[1112] It would be a gift to me if we could sit down and go through where you're actually at, how good things are, how tough things are.

[1113] So that'll help me sleep.

[1114] Sometimes pride is too big for that, but sometimes a dad will hear that and say, I don't want my son losing sleep because of me anymore.

[1115] I'll have that conversation.

[1116] But if you come at him, hey, what's the problem?

[1117] Man, they're going to wall up and not talk to you about it.

[1118] Yeah, the alternative reality is just that he, when they immigrated, they fully embraced the American dream, which can be a nightmare if you do it wrong.

[1119] Yep.

[1120] Credit cards and parent plus loans and spending everything you make and not saving money.

[1121] That's normal in America, agreed?

[1122] Yep.

[1123] And your parents fully embrace the culture.

[1124] Where did they come from?

[1125] What country?

[1126] Nigeria.

[1127] We're Nigerian.

[1128] Yeah.

[1129] Yeah.

[1130] So they found a lot of wonderful things and didn't know how to drive a car that powerful.

[1131] Yeah.

[1132] I think what really kind of triggered it from me is I've tried to have it come with them a bunch of times as I always ask my parents, hey, where do you see yourself five years from now?

[1133] And I asked them that last year, asking that this year.

[1134] Yeah, I think John's right.

[1135] I think you go at it with dad.

[1136] I'm scared.

[1137] And I'm worried.

[1138] I woke up this morning early about 3 a .m. I couldn't go back to sleep thinking about y 'all.

[1139] Would you sit down with this guy that we've lined up and see if he can make sure you're okay?

[1140] Because I just want to make sure you're okay.

[1141] Yeah.

[1142] He would probably hear that a lot more than if you bump into his pride.

[1143] If you bump into his pride, he's probably going to bow up like he already has, right?

[1144] And that's not just a Nigerian dad.

[1145] That's all dads, man. That's every dad in the world flow.

[1146] I'd be a hillbilly redneck dad.

[1147] Yeah, I could do that.

[1148] That's every dad.

[1149] I could definitely do that.

[1150] It has to defend themselves.

[1151] So good on you.

[1152] Hey, thanks for being so successful and thanks for loving your parents.

[1153] It's amazing.

[1154] The way to love them is to get up under this and fix it, not throw money at it.

[1155] This is the Ramsey show.

[1156] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[1157] Selling a house, the Ramsey Way, makes home ownership a blessing instead of a burden.

[1158] The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to.

[1159] to find a real estate agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey.

[1160] You'll get the best offer on your house, or if you're buying, help you find the right house for you.

[1161] We send you some of the top agents in your area, high octane, high protein who we trust.

[1162] They're Ramsey trusted.

[1163] We review their stats, interview them, and then you can go through and talk to them, do the same thing, and you decide which one you want to work with.

[1164] Ramsey trusted agents have years of experience.

[1165] They're high producers.

[1166] They're the best in the business, and they'll help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, marketing, and making or choosing the right offer.

[1167] Find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free at Ramsey Solutions .com slash agent.

[1168] Matt is in Iowa City, Iowa.

[1169] Hi, Matt.

[1170] Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[1171] Hello, guys.

[1172] Thanks for taking the call.

[1173] Sure.

[1174] What's up?

[1175] so we've got a second child on the way due in november wife wants me to remodel the basement so we have more space um just for pleria a full bathroom that we can get done she wants me to use the helock that i took out before i listened to both george's book and dave your book and i want the cash flow it whether it takes me a couple more months just to do it or not i'm just trying to make sure that's on the same path, but I'm thinking I have to pause kind of the debt snowball at the same time.

[1176] Are you trying to get me and Dave to tell your pregnant wife something you don't want to tell her?

[1177] No. I have told her already that we need, it's okay to do this, but at the same time I need time because I can do a lot of it myself, but I only want to do it with cash.

[1178] Yeah, your impulse is right, man. yeah um here the the problem is is that you guys are not aligned it's not whether to do a basement or not the problem is is she's willing to borrow whatever amount of money to get whatever she wants and you're not and so because you're dealing with a set of information that she doesn't have after going through george's book and consuming some of our material you have become accurately i think convinced that the best way for your family to prosper is to get out of debt and state out of debt.

[1179] She's not convinced of that.

[1180] Yeah, it took me a while for her just to even listen to your book, Dave.

[1181] I had to kind of not force her, but I did that through the car on trips or whatever, and she kind of was under the impression like, okay, we need to get on this.

[1182] But I kind of talked her off the cliff of buying a new home, which would be more than twice what we're paying now for a mortgage payment, which I didn't want to do.

[1183] and so now we're going to stay and the contention was that I need to remodel the basement okay um no it's not the problem is not the basement the problem is you and your wife do not agree on how to live life and you are begging and pleading her to listen to something to understand something and she's bowing up and saying she refuses to do so by God get me what I want that's what you've just described now I don't know if that's what's happening but that's what you described sure you're not leaving her in a very good light in this conversation and I I don't mean it that way no I'm not criticizing you I'm criticizing her unless you're wrong because I mean I got to tell you I don't have conversations with Sharon nor does she have conversations with me where she's tiptoeing around like you're tiptoeing around her like oh I don't know honey baby maybe I don't listen to this.

[1184] No, it doesn't happen that way at the Ramsey's.

[1185] It's like, hey, this means a lot to me, and you mean a lot to me, and I really want you to give this a serious listen like an adult, and then I go listen to the podcast that Sharon wants me listen to it.

[1186] I may disagree with the thing.

[1187] I may come back, and we may have an argument about it, but we're going to do it on an adult level, but I don't do stuff because I'm scared of Sharon, or because I had to talk her off the ledge, and I concede my principles by I talk to talk her off the ledge.

[1188] And my wife doesn't give me ultimatums in my house.

[1189] Well, if you're going to do this, I'll listen to the book, but you have to buy me a new house.

[1190] We don't do tradeouts.

[1191] Like you're going to go build out the basement if I, if you don't get me a new house.

[1192] No, that's not.

[1193] I mean, you know, if we decide instead of moving to a new house that we can't afford, we're going to build out the basement, we're still going to do that based on principles that we both agree to.

[1194] So, Matt, you do not have a debt problem or a cash flow problem or a decision on how to build out the basement problem.

[1195] You have a marriage problem.

[1196] Yeah, and you have to sit down and have that conversation.

[1197] And from the sound of your voice, it sounds like that's going to be a tough one.

[1198] And it may be that you'll have reached the end of the road where y 'all can have that together.

[1199] You're going to have to get a third party, whether it's a counselor or a minister from your church or a trusted friend.

[1200] But you all have to get on the same page with how you're doing life.

[1201] And it's you versus her right now.

[1202] You're bringing a second kid into the world.

[1203] it's just a recipe for chaos yeah you probably do need to sit down with somebody make it easier just to have somebody walk you to through this um and it could be family of origin stuff in the sense of rachel talks about this let me send you a copy of rachel's book for both of you to read um you know um title escapes me oh know yourself know your money know yourself know your money but one of the things she goes thank you one of the things she goes through is if you grew If she grew up in a household where spending was just part of the game, and you grew up in a household where money was fearful, then you're trying to bring fearful into her princess world.

[1204] And that doesn't work.

[1205] She grew up as a princess, and now you're telling her no. Or if she grew up poor and...

[1206] And now you're telling her no. She wants to spend now.

[1207] Yeah.

[1208] Or whatever it is.

[1209] I don't know what the background is.

[1210] I'm not saying she's a princess, but I'm saying, you know, when you start demanding.

[1211] things back and forth like that that's a relational breakdown man that's not a I because what you're saying is we have a baby on the way I my wife wants me to build out the basement um that's not unreasonable she wants to be built out the basement now and use a he lock to do it and I can do it two months later without borrowing money that's unreasonable completely unreasonable completely unreasonable oh and here's what's even more unreasonable this is a baby that is six or eight pounds maximum 21 inches does not take up much room does not need an entire basement can exist for quite a while in the upstairs and not be damaged by anything you know what it won't even know Dave it won't know it won't know for years it won't even know it may never know that there was a downstairs here's a good equation for all you math nerds who are married if she wins and you lose you both lose and if you win and she loses you both lose you can't win marriage arguments because somebody loses and if one of you loses everybody in the house is lost we have to realign and find a way so one of the things that we learned to do on stuff like this Matt was first we got to agree on the principle the principle is we're not borrowing money principles we're getting out of debt before we go do upgrades to the basement That's what really ought to happen.

[1212] He's on baby step two.

[1213] No, I'm not stopping baby step two.

[1214] We're going to get out of debt because I want to be free and borrow a slave for the lender.

[1215] Now, once we're agreed on that principle, then happy to do the basement.

[1216] And I'll do it as soon as we're out of debt and as soon as we have the emergency fund in place, the first thing we'll do is the basement.

[1217] Okay.

[1218] Now, we hit that point.

[1219] And I had, I remember exactly what was.

[1220] It was $18 ,000 that I needed slash wanted to do here at Ramsey in the business.

[1221] I had $18 ,000 in my pocket, and I had a thing I wanted to do here, and I knew I could turn that 18 into 100, investing into the business.

[1222] She was driving a 1902 astro van that had enough goldfish crumbs in it from raising three toddlers, and it had 285 ,000 million miles on it, and she wanted an upgrade car.

[1223] Both things are right.

[1224] You know what we did?

[1225] Both of them.

[1226] But we just had to choose the order.

[1227] And I was happy to get her the car first and then come back and do the investment at the office.

[1228] It wasn't a no. It was what order once we aligned on the principles.

[1229] Perfect.

[1230] None of that's happening in this conversation.

[1231] None.

[1232] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1233] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today on the debt -free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions.

[1234] Joe and Danella are with us.

[1235] Hey, guys.

[1236] How are you?

[1237] Hi.

[1238] Good.

[1239] How are you?

[1240] Welcome, welcome.

[1241] Where do y 'all live?

[1242] Henderson, Nevada, right outside of Las Vegas.

[1243] Very cool.

[1244] Welcome to Nashville.

[1245] How much debt of you two paid?

[1246] We paid off $201 ,000.

[1247] Good for you.

[1248] How long did that take?

[1249] It took 44 months.

[1250] Good for you.

[1251] And your range of income during that time?

[1252] We started off making 157 and we finished at 2 .13.

[1253] Excellent.

[1254] What do you all do for a living?

[1255] I am in records and information management.

[1256] And I work in the power generation industry.

[1257] Very cool.

[1258] Good for you.

[1259] What kind of debt was your $201 ,000?

[1260] Our house.

[1261] Hey!

[1262] Look at it in a couple of weirdos.

[1263] That's right.

[1264] Got a paid off house, baby.

[1265] Yeah.

[1266] So what's a paid off house in Henderson, Nevada worth these days?

[1267] Anywhere close to half a million dollars.

[1268] Yeah, it looks like a great place.

[1269] They just flashed a picture of it up here on YouTube.

[1270] Yeah.

[1271] Wow.

[1272] Very cool.

[1273] Good for you, man. Very neat.

[1274] Got to pay for a house older you to.

[1275] I'm 54 and she's a lot younger.

[1276] Okay, that's good.

[1277] That was an outstanding answer.

[1278] Great answer.

[1279] Well played.

[1280] I love it.

[1281] I love it.

[1282] And then you have a paid -for property.

[1283] Yes.

[1284] How much in your nest egg?

[1285] How much in your retirement?

[1286] We got about $570 in retirement right now.

[1287] Which means that you are babysaps millionaires then.

[1288] Very close.

[1289] When you add the liquid cash, yes.

[1290] Yeah.

[1291] Well, and add the paid -for house.

[1292] Hello.

[1293] It's worth a half a million.

[1294] $500 and $500 a million where I come from.

[1295] Good for you.

[1296] Well, done.

[1297] Not $390, actually, is where our house is at.

[1298] I thought you said it was about a half million.

[1299] Okay.

[1300] All right.

[1301] So, yeah, you're probably there.

[1302] Good, man. So how much of this million dollar net worth did you inherit?

[1303] Zero.

[1304] Zero.

[1305] And how long ago did you all start this whole process?

[1306] So the current paying off the house, that started about four years ago.

[1307] You started that four years ago.

[1308] 2020.

[1309] It was January.

[1310] It was right before.

[1311] How long have you been married?

[1312] 27 years.

[1313] Almost 28 years now.

[1314] All right.

[1315] Very good.

[1316] Oh, you looked at him like you still like him.

[1317] That's so good.

[1318] All right.

[1319] So 20, 20, before the world fell apart.

[1320] Before the world fell, right before the world fell apart.

[1321] So in January, I'm walking through the local library and looked over at a setup of books, and there's the radio guy's face.

[1322] Oh, look, there's the radio guy.

[1323] The radio guy's face.

[1324] That's a scary thought right there.

[1325] And immediately, this quiet whisper in my heart, and said, take that book home, check that book out, and take it home.

[1326] So I did, grabbed it, checked it out, took it home, started reading it, read bits of it to him, started listening to the radio podcast.

[1327] Oh, wow.

[1328] And then we heard about the 14 -day free trial for the Financial Peace University videos.

[1329] And so we went and signed up for those and started binge watching them, watched each of them two or three times over.

[1330] And the part about retirement and investing kept sticking out and resonating with us.

[1331] And that's what got us very focused on helping helping us get on on the track of paying off our house and getting everything tightened up right so our our debt -free journey really kind of I always like to say it began in 2020 once once we got through your program and kind of got on board with that prior to that years ago in our marriage we followed kind of listened to Larry briquette yeah back in the day and he was teaching this stuff before I was right But we just kind of hummed along with no real plan in life.

[1332] We were able to pay our bills and everything, and everything seemed fine, but we weren't getting money stashed away for retirement, things like that.

[1333] So it really, once we got through your program, it really, that really kind of opened my eyes a lot, because initially I wasn't really, you know, following her.

[1334] We weren't really working together.

[1335] We were close.

[1336] We were close, but it wasn't, it wasn't perfectly in sync.

[1337] Right, right.

[1338] And now there's a rhythm.

[1339] It's perfectly in sync.

[1340] And I read, what was it, everyday millionaires?

[1341] Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.

[1342] I read that book.

[1343] And just the idea of becoming a millionaire where years ago kind of seemed like, oh, this is just a dream.

[1344] It's never going to happen.

[1345] Yeah.

[1346] And then I looked at our budget.

[1347] I looked at our income, and I'm like, we can do this.

[1348] Yeah.

[1349] it's very doable for us.

[1350] We have great incomes.

[1351] And so we got on board and we just chunked away at the house and got it done.

[1352] Wow.

[1353] Tell me about your matching shirts.

[1354] One of them says, shut up.

[1355] The other one says, do the plan.

[1356] Tell us about that.

[1357] So a while ago we were listening to one of your podcasts and, you know, John, I don't know if it was you or might have been George.

[1358] Somebody in there said, just shut up and do the plan.

[1359] and somehow that just stuck it just kind of resonated like that actually sounds like jade but right so the shut up part is my personality and the kind of do the plan tortoise slow and steady oh it's a tortoise across now i see it okay got the tortoise little tortoise going across the do the plan all right good i like it well done y 'all thank you well done i like we may need to sell those shirts i like those shirts since we're in the shirt business now yeah yeah what was the biggest disagreement that you had over the last four years when it comes to your money?

[1360] So the hardest thing, I don't know that we had a huge disagreement, maybe we did, but I love going out to eat.

[1361] And cutting back on the going out to eat spending, that was the hard one for me. Yeah, it wasn't worth it?

[1362] It was very worth it.

[1363] We found lots of ways to go out and do stuff that didn't cost much.

[1364] And, you know, during COVID, we had to.

[1365] Yeah, you didn't have a lot of choice, sir.

[1366] We kind of sort of did beans and rice, not that we had to, but just because getting the house paid off became that important to us.

[1367] that we just cut back on a lot of other things and just focus on that more you can see the number and you can say we could be there then it's like i want to rush to the finish line i don't want to just play along i want to get there and that's the way most people's brains work way to go y 'all that's very cool what church are y 'all in out there in henderson so we do we go to green valley christian center okay in henderson okay and we went through financial peace i was it 20 or 21 we went through that.

[1368] Anyhow, it was online because of COVID and all that.

[1369] But just a little shout out to Charlie Bromley, who is our FPU coordinator.

[1370] All right.

[1371] Way to go, Charlie.

[1372] Good stuff.

[1373] Yeah.

[1374] Well, way to go, you guys.

[1375] And Charlie was cheering you on.

[1376] Who else was cheering you on?

[1377] I think that's about it.

[1378] We kind of just.

[1379] You didn't talk about it a lot.

[1380] We didn't really talk about it a lot.

[1381] You know, we didn't talk about it much with family.

[1382] I'm paying off my house.

[1383] Yeah.

[1384] But I don't know, but Charlie was was in our corner, definitely.

[1385] I bet.

[1386] I bet.

[1387] I Well, congratulations.

[1388] We're proud of you.

[1389] Thank you.

[1390] Way to go, guys.

[1391] Very proud of you.

[1392] You're heroes.

[1393] You took control of your life.

[1394] You start with nothing in America.

[1395] Fifty -four years old.

[1396] You have a paid -for house.

[1397] You've got a net worth of over a million dollars.

[1398] You're in agreement on your marriage.

[1399] You're smiling at each other.

[1400] Life is good.

[1401] It's really a story of not anything that we achieved, not what we accomplished.

[1402] But it's what God has done in his provision and everything that he's done for us.

[1403] and just a mindset and you know long story short years ago in our early in our marriage we went through a good part of our marriage and I had an addiction in my own personal life that really divided us mentally emotionally and I think that kind of kept us from really connecting together and it affected our finances in that way well you've come through a lot of healing yeah be not conform to this world because you're not you're weird right but be transformed and how you do that by the renewing of your mind and what i've noticed that's interesting in my life and people i've observed over the years as well is it's interesting that you do all these things to become debt -free but who you become as a couple who you become as individuals while you're on this journey is probably more important than actually just paying off the house you've you've become different people a better version of yourself way to go yeah very proud of you your heroes.

[1404] Excellent, excellent job.

[1405] All right, it's Joe and Danella from Las Vegas, Nevada, Henderson, to be precise.

[1406] $201 ,000 paid off house and everything.

[1407] Baby steps, millionaires, baby.

[1408] 44 months, making 157 to 213.

[1409] Count it down.

[1410] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[1411] Ready?

[1412] Three, two, one.

[1413] We're debt -free.

[1414] Woo -hoo -hoo!

[1415] I love it.

[1416] man very cool guys very cool this is the ramsie show our scripture of the day james one 17 every good and perfect gift is from above coming down from the father of the heavenly lights who does not change like shifting shadows h jackson brown said talent without discipline is like an octopus on a roller skates there's plenty of movement but you'll never know if it's going to be forward backwards or sideways that's a great question He did a book many years ago that sold several million copies.

[1417] He's from here in Nashville called Life's Little Instruction Book.

[1418] And it was just a little almost like one of our quick reads, but it was, you know, quote per page of whatever quotes from his friends, his dad's friends and that kind of stuff.

[1419] And it was, gosh, that's probably 25 or 30 years ago, but it went big, went real big.

[1420] David is in Washington, D .C. Hi, David.

[1421] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1422] Hi, Dave.

[1423] Hi, John.

[1424] Thanks for taking my call.

[1425] I really wanted to talk about, I'm a father of five.

[1426] I have a supporting spouse, but we have some debt.

[1427] There's debt, car loans.

[1428] We did a reasonable improvement.

[1429] We had some contractor issues to a point where we had lost quite bad money.

[1430] So I ended up taking money from my 401K to kind of cover the, the home improvement that we were doing on the home.

[1431] And so I think in total, between the cars and the AAC improvement, the home improvement, we're looking at about $121 ,000.

[1432] But we do - I thought you covered the home improvement.

[1433] Is it paid off or not?

[1434] It's, I used, I took money from my 401K to.

[1435] You borrowed money or you took money?

[1436] I did.

[1437] I borrowed money.

[1438] So you have a 401K loan.

[1439] I do.

[1440] A 50 ,000 or what?

[1441] Yes, a 50 ,000.

[1442] Okay, and then you have what else?

[1443] Two car.

[1444] Okay, and that amounts to another 50.

[1445] Okay, so you got 100 ,000 in debt, right?

[1446] Yes.

[1447] You said 100 and how much?

[1448] 121 ,000.

[1449] Okay, cool.

[1450] I got the picture now.

[1451] All right, and your question is what?

[1452] We have, I have stocks in my personal brokerage that's probably valued over 200 ,000.

[1453] the thought is, should I take that to sell them down to cover those outstanding loans?

[1454] By the end of the day.

[1455] By the end of the day.

[1456] Today, right now, as fast as you can.

[1457] You should have done that before you took out these loans.

[1458] You should have used your money to buy a car?

[1459] You should have used your money to do your renovation.

[1460] Definitely 100%.

[1461] Yeah.

[1462] I think at the time, it was, so I took out these loans a little while ago, and the market was down through.

[1463] It doesn't matter.

[1464] It's great.

[1465] It doesn't matter.

[1466] You don't borrow money on a car to invest in the stock market.

[1467] And when you don't take money out of the stock market to buy your car, it's the same thing.

[1468] No financial, no one in financial history except TikTok has said borrow money on your car and invest in the stock market.

[1469] No one ever said that was a good idea.

[1470] And effectively, that's what you did.

[1471] By not taking your money out of your brokerage account because the market was up to buy the car and instead borrowing money on the car, It's the same thing as having borrowed money on the car to invest.

[1472] Do you understand what I'm saying?

[1473] I do.

[1474] Yeah, so undo this mess today.

[1475] And quit buying stuff unless you pay for it.

[1476] Right.

[1477] Because it's killing you.

[1478] It's killing you.

[1479] You make a lot of money and you're a very smart person and you overanalyzed this.

[1480] Big time.

[1481] Big time.

[1482] You got paralysis of the analysis and you thought you had this figured out and you put yourself in a mess.

[1483] Don't do that.

[1484] Don't ever do that.

[1485] Don't ever do that.

[1486] Ryan is in Augusta, Georgia.

[1487] Hey, Ryan, what's up?

[1488] Hey, Dave, hey, John.

[1489] I appreciate you taking my call.

[1490] Sure.

[1491] How can I help?

[1492] Yeah, I found out at the beginning of a year, my dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer.

[1493] Oh, no. And they ended up, yeah, yeah.

[1494] I'm sorry.

[1495] They gave him three years, but it's been a pretty steady decline since the beginning of the year.

[1496] So I don't think that's accurate any longer.

[1497] Um, my question, though, is, you know, in regards to what I can do, um, before he passes, um, to kind of make things easier on the family after he does, I don't believe he has a will.

[1498] Um, and his cognitive decline is, I think, um, going to keep us from, from getting him to, you don't think he's a sound of mind now?

[1499] Um, he's, he's seen Indians in the kitchen.

[1500] So I, I don't think so.

[1501] All the time or just sporadically?

[1502] It's sporadic.

[1503] It's worse than the afternoons.

[1504] Hey, Ryan, I'm telling you this because I love you.

[1505] You need to have that conversation like today or tomorrow.

[1506] Are you anywhere near him geographically?

[1507] A couple hours away.

[1508] Okay.

[1509] Get in a car and go over there and get a will done now.

[1510] Right now.

[1511] Get online, get a mama bear will, get something done, so you have something written out.

[1512] otherwise it's going to be a mess yeah that that one hard conversation in a two -hour drive and a one -hours of hard pushing while he's if he's clear of mind is going to save you and your family a ton of problems and money okay big time do you have a sibling or an aunt or uncle that's going to sue for the estate or is it going to be pretty simple well it is more complicated I do have a brother and a sister that live in the house that he lived in.

[1513] He has a mortgage.

[1514] I think there's some back IRS debt as well as potentially a HELOC, but I don't know any of the...

[1515] So it doesn't sound like he has any money when the smoke clears?

[1516] He's got an equity in the house, but I'm afraid that's going to all be gone.

[1517] Yeah, yeah.

[1518] And your brother and sister are going to have to sell the house and move.

[1519] And move.

[1520] That was my next question.

[1521] Yeah, the court will force him to do that.

[1522] They're going to lose the house.

[1523] Okay.

[1524] Because they can't keep it.

[1525] And your dad doesn't have an estate to amount to anything.

[1526] So the will is not that important.

[1527] It is important to get that done.

[1528] The second thing you've got to do while you're there, sit down with your brother and sister and go, look, here's the math.

[1529] The IRS debt plus the helock equals the house.

[1530] There's nothing.

[1531] And the house is going to be gone when he's gone.

[1532] This is a really hard situation.

[1533] so I love you too and I want to help us I want to help you figure out where you're going to be living because they haven't thought of that they're in denial are they planning on just living there after he passes away I think that's the hope yeah I think it's sitting down and doing the math with them yeah you're going to have to show them the math and go the IRS is not going to let you keep this house and you don't have the money to pay them off the HELOC is not going to let you keep this house and you don't have the money to pay them off and so guys you know you've lived here as long as you can so you can live here as long as you can but they're going to take the house from you I'm not getting anything out of this there's not no one's getting anything out of this there's not going to be any money to amount to anything maybe a little bit of equity if we're all smart and we sell it you might get 10 ,000 I might get 10 ,000 she might get 10 ,000 but it's not going to be 200 ,000 there's no lottery check coming Dave I'm going to ask you a question Ryan I'm going to ask Dave a question on your behalf if this house is let's say dad says I want everything split between these three okay um it has to be sold would it be wise if I'm Ryan to say I would prefer not to be on this list because here's what I don't want I don't want Ryan to be left as the sole heir of this house and they gets foreclosed on and he's responsible he's not responsible for anything okay all right none of the none of you three kids are going to be responsible for the debt but the house will be and they will take the house for the debt but that foreclosure will sit on whoever's Nope.

[1534] It sits on dad's name.

[1535] It's not in their name.

[1536] Okay.

[1537] It's a foreclosed on a dead man's estate.

[1538] Okay.

[1539] It's awful, but that's the dead, that's the end of it.

[1540] So, yeah, get a will done and have a clear conversation with your brother and sister and get your numbers straight.

[1541] Because am I correct in hearing you that the adding up of the IRS and the HELOC is as much as the house is probably worth?

[1542] It's, well, in the condition the house is in there may be, you know, 80 or $100.

[1543] an inequity okay all right so the best thing for your brother and sister is to sell it as soon as he passes away and if you don't need any of the money you can give him the whole equity i don't care but let them get a fresh start out of there but the thing is they've been hiding from reality at your dad's house for so long that you helping them face reality now is the best gift you can give them okay am i missing something no no you're you're dead on okay um we Would it be smarter to sell the house before he passes or wait or after?

[1544] I would let everybody stay there and let him be comfortable and love him well.

[1545] Okay.

[1546] It's just too much.

[1547] I don't want to disrupt him in his situation.

[1548] It's horrible what he's going through.

[1549] He's lucky to have you, Ron.

[1550] Good for you, man. All of them are.

[1551] We got, oh, man, I'm sorry.

[1552] Wow.

[1553] That puts us our The Ramsey Show and the books.

[1554] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1555] In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of, Peace.

[1556] Christ Jesus.

[1557] Hey folks, Dave here.

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