205 - Everyone Gets A Horse

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome.

[2] I didn't know we were starting.

[3] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[4] We didn't do the thing where we nodded each other for five seconds before we actually launch into it.

[5] Do prayer hands.

[6] I busted out.

[7] You did.

[8] I busted out by starting without you and I busted out by biting into an apple right before we started.

[9] Like that was anything you can do in the entire time frame of doing a podcast.

[10] Eating an apple never comes into it.

[11] That's Karen Kilgarras.

[12] Oh, that's Georgia Hard Star.

[13] I'm not eating an apple I'm drinking a kombucha because I'm just pretending I'm drinking alcohol and it's not alcohol I bet there's a little bit of alcohol in there Oh I hope so Because it's fermented because I put whiskey in it Oh because Both hands are shaking really hard Have you ever seen those really like it's in the movies and stuff Where there's a really old drunk that his hands shakes so about He has to tie a kerchief around one hand And then pull it around his neck So he can pull his hand up to pour a drink into his mouth No Yeah Oh, the ravages of alcohol.

[14] Just saying, today's 15 days off for me. Really?

[15] Yeah.

[16] I didn't want to ask because I didn't want to put pressure on.

[17] I get it.

[18] So I'll just say it.

[19] Dude, you're past two weeks.

[20] I know.

[21] That's incredible.

[22] Thank you.

[23] What's going on?

[24] Do you want to report any feelings?

[25] Are you having hallucinations?

[26] No. How are how shaky are your hand?

[27] I'm good.

[28] I'm sleeping fucking amazingly.

[29] I'm not having those 3 a .m. shame hours where I just wake up and I'm like, Like, why did you fucking drink again last night?

[30] Like you were going to, this time you're going to do it in hating myself.

[31] Yes.

[32] Not having those.

[33] I'm not taking naps.

[34] I'm feeling fucking good.

[35] That's great.

[36] Well, the poison's leaving the body.

[37] Is it?

[38] The poison's leaving the system.

[39] How long does it take to not feel like?

[40] God, from what I can't remember from medical school, it's right around.

[41] I don't know.

[42] I mean, I say you're, basically I'd say a month.

[43] Yeah.

[44] I think they usually say 28 days of a habit broken is a broken habit.

[45] So I think if you, you know, but I bet you just system -wise, like running clean for over two weeks is Primo.

[46] You're in golden state now.

[47] Thank you.

[48] And I've just been shoveling turmeric into my face.

[49] What's that to?

[50] It helps with inflammation.

[51] Nice.

[52] Do you have anything?

[53] Any other tips or tricks for how you got two weeks is a long time.

[54] I am falling asleep listening to the book that I recommend.

[55] I've listened to it three or four times at this point.

[56] It's This Naked Life by Annie Grace.

[57] I'll fucking say it again.

[58] It has changed everything for me. Amazing.

[59] And I have other suggestions too at some point.

[60] We'll have a full talk through about it.

[61] I love it.

[62] Because I, you talking about that last week, I was like, you don't have to, it doesn't have to be alcohol to be pointing and looking at a thing that you want to let go of.

[63] Yeah.

[64] And it's just more about the, because I actually kind of breezed through that.

[65] book just to see how alcohol centric it was.

[66] Yeah.

[67] And I was like oh no, I could completely listen to this.

[68] Yeah.

[69] To be...

[70] You could just have it about food.

[71] You can have it about weed.

[72] Whatever you want.

[73] Yeah.

[74] I mean, this aren't my problem.

[75] I didn't mean you.

[76] I want to do it about just being too nice to people and it being too helpful.

[77] I truly didn't mean you when I said that.

[78] And somehow I hit you spot on.

[79] Well, it's all I talk about.

[80] It's all I talk about.

[81] But you know, there are these things we're like, you know.

[82] Apples before podcast.

[83] Just eat, biting into a honey crisp, just one bite and throwing it away.

[84] That's a terrible habit that has to be gotten rid of.

[85] I think these days though, the stress and daily horror that everyone is dealing with and that, you know, just the temperature and literally figuratively politically, people are relying on things probably now more than ever.

[86] A hundred percent.

[87] And coping with things that maybe might not be working.

[88] So stuff like this and these conversations I think can be really helpful, even if it's cash, even if it's not like, uh -oh, I crash my car for the fifth time or whatever.

[89] Yeah.

[90] But it's just kind of like, I want to figure out what actually feels good, not what my habit is.

[91] You know what I've been thinking about?

[92] You know, in AA, you hit rock, people hit rock bottom and that's when you decide to quit.

[93] I haven't done that, but I think I've hit rock boredom or I'm so fucking bored when I drink and I'm so bored, I drink because I'm bored.

[94] And I'm bored of that.

[95] And I want something new.

[96] Right.

[97] You know what I mean?

[98] 100%.

[99] Because it's almost like you're like, I'm just going to go walk down that same hallway again.

[100] Right.

[101] And so, yes, there's great things down that hallway.

[102] There's a pinball machine.

[103] And there's drama.

[104] And there's like, woo, confetti and shit.

[105] Yeah.

[106] And it's like you're more yourself or so you think.

[107] Yeah.

[108] And you're more excited and happy or so you think in that hallway.

[109] Brave.

[110] There's all these things the hallway makes you believe.

[111] Right.

[112] But then, yeah, after a while you're like, is there any other fucking part of this house I could please go sit in for.

[113] a while.

[114] That is a great analogy.

[115] It is an analogy.

[116] Well, a great job.

[117] Thank you.

[118] It might even be a metaphor.

[119] But who can say?

[120] Now, I would like to talk about something more important than your sobriety, and that's a new TV show that I've found.

[121] I love it.

[122] Let's do it.

[123] And I'm surprised because I was so excited about this show that I thought I could get you.

[124] Yeah.

[125] But again, it's proven that we are polar opposites and do not have the same taste.

[126] It's HBO's new series, starring and directed by the great Jason Bateman called The Outsider that is about did he or did he not commit this crime and I think it's so good I do too but I've accidentally like a year ago read the book and I didn't like it right so I stopped oh I think it's it's kind of clouding how I look at it but I do really like it I'm gonna watch it and also probably needs to be said also it's Stephen King has recently said some problematic shit that other people wouldn't like.

[127] So that might be clouding it for some people.

[128] I didn't even realize he had anything to do with it.

[129] So I watched it and got these big the night of feelings, those old, remember?

[130] Was that 2016 or 2017?

[131] Nice.

[132] And we're like, yes, what is this?

[133] What is it?

[134] Who is Riz Ahmed?

[135] I love it.

[136] Why is this taking over my life?

[137] I only want to look at this TV show for the rest of my life.

[138] Absolutely.

[139] It's similar feelings in that way.

[140] And then also just I've loved Jason Bateman since he came into my life via Silver Spoon the great syndicated Ricky Schroeder vehicle as the villain then he got his own show called What's Your Move?

[141] What the fuck Was that what it was called?

[142] And it was like a kid With a single mom and the guy across the hall wanted to date his mom And it was so it was like him versus the adult I never saw that it's so good He is so fucking good as a child actor He's like 12 years old And he it's like he's fucking he's unbelievable what's the actor who's also in the show who is in Bloodline what's his name he's amazing oh um is it Norman Reedis no that's the guy from Walking Dead is it should we pause and also the detective from the night of is also on it as the lawyer oh is that okay so the detective that's like a all anti Riz Ahmed and then Ben Mendelson Ben Mendlson is the guy from Bloodline yes and he's incredible.

[143] He's so good.

[144] I love him.

[145] He's the detective in this one.

[146] Yeah.

[147] Then the lawyer is the guy that was the detective on the night of.

[148] That's where I was getting my night of feelings.

[149] Got it.

[150] Good.

[151] Let me change the subject.

[152] Casually and cleanly changed the subject.

[153] Cool.

[154] Okay.

[155] I just saw this news that I wanted to tell you because I thought you would love it as much as I did.

[156] Please.

[157] So there's this soccer team.

[158] You know you and I went and saw soccer when we were in the UK.

[159] Yes.

[160] We call it football.

[161] Football.

[162] It's so much fun.

[163] So there's a soccer team.

[164] They're called Roma.

[165] They're from Italy, and they're like, big deal.

[166] A big deal.

[167] They're called Roma.

[168] They're from Italy.

[169] Yeah.

[170] Can you believe it?

[171] It's so crazy.

[172] Who to thunk?

[173] So I guess they're like known for having a really witty, funny Twitter account.

[174] Oh.

[175] And now they've done something where, so incoming transfer announcements, that's when like we have this new player.

[176] Is that what that?

[177] That's what that means.

[178] I don't know shit about sports.

[179] So I'm going to get this wrong.

[180] I text Vince the other day when he was watching football.

[181] How many innings are left?

[182] Not even to be cute?

[183] I was not being cute.

[184] I just didn't.

[185] I don't.

[186] Sure.

[187] I'm not.

[188] So now when they post a photo and like a news announcement of their incoming transfers, their new players, side by side with it, they pair a slideshow and picks of missing children from various countries.

[189] No. So every time, and it's a big news when someone gets transferred.

[190] So every time someone clicks on it to read the news, there are missing children.

[191] children that you need to keep an eye out.

[192] And guess what?

[193] Six fucking children I've been found because of this so far.

[194] How amazing is that?

[195] Oh, are you crying?

[196] I might, am I going to cry?

[197] Oh, God.

[198] I can't, I'm holding my cheeks.

[199] Take a bite of an apple.

[200] That's very.

[201] Push that down.

[202] Do you like a bite of this apple.

[203] Um, that's beautiful.

[204] I, that is absolutely what it's, what people should be doing.

[205] For no reason.

[206] They have no fucking stake in it.

[207] It's just like such a good thing to do.

[208] It's some, somebody within that club.

[209] Yeah.

[210] Or within.

[211] that system over there, it realizes this gets all this attention and for what, aside from the joy of this sport, which God bless that, but what else could we be actually doing here?

[212] That's incredible.

[213] It's incredible.

[214] It's incredible.

[215] Arrivederci, Roma, huh?

[216] Uh -huh.

[217] Actually, and you know, the fall line.

[218] Buenos Aires, Roma.

[219] The fall line on Instagram, their Instagram account, is a lot of those missing people, too.

[220] And it's a lot of missing people that are not, that are marginalized in the community.

[221] So they're, so their missing person information isn't as widespread as it would be for someone, say, who's white.

[222] So it's really, so the fall line follow them too.

[223] Because we, and everyone knows us, especially people that follow true crime, but God, we've been so, the media has taught us that the most important missing person is a blonde teenage girl over the years.

[224] We have been indoctrinated into believing that.

[225] And it's really beautiful when we can start changing that narrative any way anyone can.

[226] The fall line's been working on that so hard.

[227] I wanted to read this tweet because this girl sent this.

[228] So as we talked about last week, right?

[229] Yeah.

[230] God, what was that last week?

[231] Yeah, yeah.

[232] The murder squad got their first cold case solved.

[233] Very exciting.

[234] You can go listen to that episode now.

[235] So there was a lot of online action about that.

[236] So I'm trying to talk and read Twitter at the same.

[237] Rolling Stone.

[238] It's in Rolling Stone.

[239] That they did that?

[240] They did a little article in Rolling Stone.

[241] I didn't know that.

[242] Paul Holes and Billy Jensen talking.

[243] Oh, hell yeah.

[244] And they got all their, they got all their pictures ready of like them sitting really moodily on the side of a desk.

[245] Yeah.

[246] So beautiful.

[247] So everyone's all excited for the murder squads solve.

[248] And then listener named Shelby wrote in.

[249] Shelby.

[250] The Exactly Right Network podcast, The Fall Line led former prosecutor Laura Coates to bring the case the Milbrook twins to oxygen to help investigate their disappearance, the true power of podcasting.

[251] That's fucking right.

[252] So I thought that was super cool that she basically saw all the other heat and was like, can we actually turn us back a little bit to the fall line?

[253] Because those guys, 100%.

[254] You know, they're doing amazing work.

[255] They're very under the radar about it.

[256] They just do it and they're getting it done and it's so exciting.

[257] Not like Paul and Billy who have to be like, oh, we're so stunned.

[258] Look it over here.

[259] Limp, can I admit something to always here's my this is dirty secret corner let me hear it I never watched listen to or participated in any way in dirty John never once and so all these conversations that we I this happens sometimes where I really take a step back from just getting into true crime because there's now as everybody you have to get you have to be up to date on everything yes and people want to talk about all of it and we do too but like sometimes I'm just like I can't I can't watch another story like I'm so behind on the podcast like all the new cool podcasts that are coming out of true crime I'm so behind on it yeah I've been up on them lately and god damn there's some great ones there's some ones that are like it's so I'm telling you murder an organ is a humongous accomplishment that's the one I did listen to and I loved it oh man it's so good and it kind of is like it's about the power of the press and how we really do need to protect journalists and the people that are really doing you know the journalists in the media that are doing the good jobs are the sometimes the only people holding anyone yeah anyone's feet to the fire ethically and it's so important and crucial, especially in this day and age.

[260] So I basically just binged Dirty John the TV show for like two days.

[261] Basically, I just kind of like my 4 a .m. thing where I can't stop getting up at 4 a .m. and being fully awake.

[262] So I'm just like, I stayed up all night and watch that show, which that show is, now I understand what you mean.

[263] It's so infuriating.

[264] Even though I only listened to like two episodes yeah because I was I just couldn't get through it it's so frustrating so frustrating and infuriating and it reminds me of my mom and I just I couldn't get it reminds me of everyone I fucking grew up with in Orange County I just can't get through it it's tough because this you know this woman is a victim and um and that is a great story to tell because people getting their lives overtaken by psychopaths totally and the way those people will stop at nothing to like end and thing and the and the total lack of logic for these people and how they do things but the way it was like it was like nothing's a big deal nothing registers and so these poor children that are being affected by that yeah yeah i could see it all like it was very emotional and it was very difficult where just like these girls it didn't matter what they said and and how difficult that is for like kids who grew up in family situations where they didn't get heard a lot and they didn't get their time in and people didn't pay attention yeah man that was difficult i'll tell you watching your parents date is something that i don't fucking wish on anyone it really sucks it just is like it's so ugly yeah i bet you know um i can't i never had to deal with it yeah so i but i can only imagine it's ugh the vulnerability of that and like strangers and and you have to be vulnerable to get to get into that shit and you have to trust people and that's like big thing for me lately it's just like trust issues are so deep and they're so fucking like when you get that that alarm set off with a trust issue it like personally it's like it rocks your world it's just like your bell gets wrong and you just don't know and you'll never again in the same way unless you act totally vulnerable but it's like well what if you're right and what if you're just ignoring fucking red flags yes I know it's it but you know at the same time you You have to do it.

[265] You have to trust and you have to be open.

[266] And it's just like this whole study of it was very, it was difficult.

[267] But God damn it, God bless Connie Britton.

[268] What a fucking, she's unbelievable great actress.

[269] She's incredible.

[270] And so watchable.

[271] Can I say what I binged this weekend that I had no fucking clue about?

[272] I didn't know anything about it before.

[273] The watchman or just watchman.

[274] Watchman, yes.

[275] Did you watch it on HBO?

[276] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[277] Holy fucking shit.

[278] The best, right?

[279] It was like made for me. I love it so much.

[280] Fucking Regina King She has been putting in her work Day after day, year after year For so long and killing it And now she's like It's so exciting to watch a person Who's always been so great Continue this rise Just like fucking Just continue to rise and rise And then she is The heart and soul of that series And it was so good I'm not done with it yet so don't tell me Okay I don't think I could It's so like I read Watchmen I didn't know what was going on.

[281] Yeah, we tried to watch the movie, and it was terrible.

[282] I like the movie, but it is that thing of, I get very defensive about comic books because I'm like, I don't get symbolism, you know what I mean?

[283] I'm like, I immediately, I'm like, I don't know about Greek mythology, and I bail.

[284] Yeah, me too.

[285] Oh, I just have to, did you know Brene Brown is coming out with her own podcast?

[286] Yes, it's new.

[287] I think it's out.

[288] It's not, there's a trailer out.

[289] Oh, okay.

[290] And then it's like, you know, we can all go run and subscribe.

[291] Yeah.

[292] It's called Unlocking Us.

[293] Yes, girl, unlock us.

[294] Help us.

[295] We need you.

[296] We're here for you.

[297] Get out here.

[298] But it's already like, it's number one.

[299] I think.

[300] It is number one.

[301] I saw it.

[302] That's why I thought it was out.

[303] Yeah, no. The trailer is number one already.

[304] The trailer is number one.

[305] Hell yeah.

[306] So it's so exciting to welcome Brunay Brown to the podcasting community.

[307] We're here with our tray of cold cuts saying welcome to the church hall.

[308] I've made a crudite platter.

[309] We're so excited to see you.

[310] Yeah.

[311] And, cannot wait to hear, I don't give a shit if she's just reading off a list of things in her kitchen.

[312] Yeah.

[313] I want to hear it.

[314] Yeah.

[315] It'll be beautiful and helpful.

[316] It'll help everyone.

[317] So excited.

[318] Those kitchen items.

[319] Um, am I first?

[320] You're first.

[321] Okay.

[322] Right, Stephen.

[323] I saw your notes.

[324] I read, I read your notebook earlier.

[325] You did?

[326] My secret diary.

[327] Georgia, what if I told you we could be transported to the 1920s to solve a murder?

[328] I'd say my entire Your life and wardrobe have led me to this point.

[329] If you want to escape to a bygone age of mystery, danger, and romance, then check out June's Journey, the Hidden Object Mystery Game that tests your detective skills.

[330] June's Journey is a mobile mystery game that follows June Parker and New York Socialite living in London.

[331] As June Parker, you'll investigate beautifully detailed scenes of the 1920s while uncovering the mystery of her sister's murder.

[332] There are twists, turns, and catchy tunes, all leading you deeper into the thrilling storyline.

[333] And if you play well enough, you could make it to the detective club where you can chat with other players and either team up with them or compete against them.

[334] June needs your help, but watch out you never know which character might be a villain.

[335] Find out as you escape this world and dive into June's world of mystery, murder, and romance.

[336] Can you crack the case?

[337] Download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android.

[338] Discover your inner detective when you download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android.

[339] That's June's Journey.

[340] Download the game for free on iOS and Android.

[341] iOS and Android.

[342] Goodbye.

[343] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[344] Absolutely.

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[362] Goodbye.

[363] Okay.

[364] Well, speaking of alcoholism, but first, speaking of the fact that we asked everyone to send us suggestions of murders that we should cover.

[365] Sure.

[366] That was the best fucking idea we've ever had.

[367] I mean, it only took us four years.

[368] Yeah.

[369] What a great idea.

[370] Solicit.

[371] It, uh, ended up being great for me because I found this murder that I had never heard of, would have never probably found, if Jeannie G hadn't emailed it to us.

[372] Gina Jee!

[373] Gina J!

[374] Thank you!

[375] She also sent us a hilarious photo of a guy on the leg thigh push machine.

[376] Sure.

[377] I think leg press?

[378] Leg press, who had chicken feet socks on.

[379] I saw that.

[380] Okay.

[381] Oh, Stephen, I think you sent it to us.

[382] Oh, good.

[383] No. Maybe you just saw it.

[384] Someone sent it to you.

[385] Someone texted it.

[386] Someone texted it to me and it was a delight.

[387] Go find it, everyone.

[388] It's fucking.

[389] hilarious.

[390] Yeah.

[391] Um, so this is the blackout murders.

[392] Okay.

[393] Any idea yet?

[394] Because I feel like you Texas.

[395] No. You might know it because of the time period.

[396] You were the 70s?

[397] An adult.

[398] No. Oh, all right.

[399] What if I guess the whole story?

[400] Can I just keep guessing.

[401] Keep going.

[402] What did it take place in Dubuque?

[403] No. Okay.

[404] So I got info from this from the New York Times article from 1994 by Joseph Berger, a New York magazine article by Suzanne O'Malley.

[405] And actually, I looked her up and she's just like, you know, really fucking incredible journalist and author.

[406] And she was a crime journalist, and she's the one who discovered the false testimony during the Andrea Yates trial.

[407] What?

[408] Which led to the reversal of her conviction.

[409] Remember that?

[410] Remind me. Is she the one that drowned the kids?

[411] Andrea Yates is the one of drowned all five of her kids.

[412] Okay.

[413] One of the prosecution's arguments was that It was premeditated because she had seen a law and order episode about it.

[414] Okay.

[415] And then this fucking chick, Suzanne O'Malley, figured it out after she had been convicted that the date that that came out was after the trial.

[416] Ew, chills.

[417] Right?

[418] So she got a retrial, and this time she was declared insane and sent to the mental hospital where she belongs.

[419] Yes.

[420] So that's pretty incredible.

[421] That's, congratulations, Suzanne O'Malley.

[422] Good eye.

[423] Good eye, dude.

[424] That's right.

[425] You're Law and Order American Hero.

[426] And she also wrote the 1995, what's it called?

[427] A Law and Order episode about this case called Privileged.

[428] Wait.

[429] Hold on.

[430] Yeah, she's very...

[431] She went on to work on Law & Order after discovering this thing on Law and Order.

[432] She just wrote some episodes.

[433] Holy shit.

[434] Yeah, incredible, right?

[435] I wonder if she was sitting...

[436] Now, I'm just saying two situations.

[437] One, she got herself into that situation and that earned her a job on Law & Order.

[438] Two, she already worked on law and order, had an encyclopedic knowledge, and then went, hold on, that's not, that time, that timeline is wrong.

[439] Because there was no, like, sitting in the courtroom Googling, like, IMDB, there was no such thing as that.

[440] Not in 94?

[441] No. Okay.

[442] And then also, I listened to an episode of Once Upon a Crime about this.

[443] So, blackout murders.

[444] I'm starting here.

[445] I'm starting in the spring of 1990.

[446] Great.

[447] Okay.

[448] 23 -year -old Paul Cox realizes after yet another.

[449] alcohol -induced blackout, that he has a fucking drinking problem.

[450] And his girlfriend's like, you got to go to AA.

[451] So he goes up until that point, Paul had had a troubled life, even though he had had all these fucking advantages.

[452] He grew up in the town of Larchmont, which is an affluent suburb of New York in Westchester County, which we all know is fucking bougie as shit.

[453] It's bougie here in L 'A, Larchmont neighborhood.

[454] That's right.

[455] That's like where all the assholes go to pretend to eat pizza.

[456] That's right.

[457] Village.

[458] Pizzeria.

[459] I just blew up large money.

[460] They'll never have me back.

[461] So this is like a, this is a total waspy town.

[462] And Paul Cox himself is like a waspy good looking young man. Born in 1967, he's the fifth of seven kids.

[463] And you know when rich people have kids, it's to show off how much money they have.

[464] Sure.

[465] Right.

[466] Everyone gets a horse.

[467] So it's a prominent family in this, in the community.

[468] He's distinguished in the community.

[469] His father is a vice president of Chase Manhattan Bank.

[470] So, come on.

[471] Yeah, privilege, privilege.

[472] They actually have a bowl of cash that's just sitting on their coffee table.

[473] You can just take a five or a ten.

[474] Right.

[475] So nothing's wrong with privilege.

[476] It's just like take advantage of it, you guys.

[477] What?

[478] Don't do that.

[479] What a refreshing stance in 2020.

[480] There's nothing wrong with privilege.

[481] Edit that out immediately.

[482] What I meant was do good with it.

[483] I think the name of this episode is there's nothing wrong with privilege.

[484] And then do good things with it.

[485] Be a good person and add to your community.

[486] Oh, it's the cancellation trumpets.

[487] They're coming for us.

[488] Oh, am I going to get canceled?

[489] This is the final one.

[490] This is our final cancellation call.

[491] Do good things with your privilege.

[492] No, stop blowing that goddamn horn of shame.

[493] Do good things with your privilege.

[494] Yes.

[495] Take advantage of it and do good things with your privilege.

[496] The taking advantage is already happening.

[497] That's built into privilege.

[498] Okay.

[499] So, as a young kid, he got into trouble, like, in first grade for stealing money from his parents.

[500] Then he started stealing money from other kids in the class.

[501] He had failing grades, which was later determined because it was due to a learning disability, which wasn't, you know, known at the time.

[502] They didn't check for that shit back then.

[503] No, they were just like, please read fast or we don't care if the letters are all backwards and jumbled up for you.

[504] That's right.

[505] After a failed suicide attempt, after being sent to a private high school, Paul sees a psychiatrist who says that he had matriciative.

[506] and patricidal tendencies, which means you want to kill your mom and your dad.

[507] He eventually graduates high school, but had dropped out of the private college.

[508] His dad had pulled strings to get him into.

[509] He quits the Air Force two weeks in.

[510] He's like, oh, this sucks by saying.

[511] Oh, this is hard.

[512] Yeah, this is not fun of our military.

[513] That's right.

[514] This is not taking advantage of my privilege.

[515] No. He lies on a psychological evaluation to get out.

[516] And he was more into drinking and partying than worrying about his future as I feel like, you know, the time and place.

[517] It's a pretty normal thing.

[518] No judgments, especially what's that early 90s we're talking about.

[519] That was kind of what everyone did.

[520] Back then, there was no internet.

[521] There was no Forever War.

[522] Everyone was chilling and listening to pretty good music and wearing their dad's card again.

[523] That's right.

[524] So cut to 1990 when he enters AA and starts getting into the program and getting sober for the first time since I think even as a kid he started drinking.

[525] Yeah.

[526] Yeah.

[527] So after I get sober, he starts to have these vivid, crazy dreams and flashbacks in which he kills his parents.

[528] They're super realistic and they freak him out, but obviously he didn't kill his parents.

[529] They're still alive.

[530] So while working on steps four and five of AA, which are you have to make a moral inventory of yourself and you have to admit to God yourself and to another human being your wrongdoings.

[531] So during those steps, he tells his girlfriend that he needs to tell her something.

[532] Oh, he's crying, he's distraught, and he tells her that he thought he had actually killed someone during a blackout years before.

[533] He doesn't think it's just a dream.

[534] Oh.

[535] And he's just now remembering the details.

[536] See, this is hard.

[537] I want to, I know, because I want to ask you about, do you remember blackouts at some point?

[538] Do they come back to you?

[539] I would.

[540] Really?

[541] Yes.

[542] There are lots of memories that I have where I drank till I didn't know what was going on.

[543] But then the next day, it would be like my brain would go hey do you want to see a Polaroid really quick and there's a couple where like there's one I have that's the most humiliating where I'm in a blackout and then the next thing I know is I'm trying to kiss someone and they're moving away with a kind of like horrified look on their face but the next day I remember waking up and just having a bad feeling like I did something and then like around 4 p .m. after like four bagels and watching TV for six hours a quick polarity comes up of this guy basically kind of like backing up and I wouldn't I like it didn't know until that point and then I'm like oh no and it was that kind of thing where it was like if my brain wanted to serve it up yeah it would let me know what I did but other than that it was so I also know like the reason this part of the story is giving me the super sweats sorry no I mean but it's it's that thing if you check out yeah you still are doing things.

[544] And that's scary.

[545] It's dangerous.

[546] It's like it's scary.

[547] It's totally scary.

[548] Yeah.

[549] And I'm not making decisions anymore.

[550] No. Your subconscious is.

[551] And you're leaving yourself up to the protection of the universe.

[552] Right.

[553] Right.

[554] It's so goddamn dangerous for personal, uh, personal safety.

[555] That's right.

[556] I don't know how I do.

[557] I like to thank my friend Dave Messmer because oftentimes he was the person that was loading me into a car or loading me over here, loading me over there.

[558] Like, that thing where like someone's so drunk they can't walk but they're still fucking walking so you have to kind of run around near the guys keep an eyeing your drunk friends come on everybody make sure that they get home safely okay so let's get back to the shit yeah so he's distraught and he tells his girlfriend that he thought he had killed someone during a blackout he's just now remembering it his girlfriend's like no freaking way I know you better than anyone you would have never done that and she tells him to go talk to his sponsor so which of course is someone in AA who's been through the program longer than you, who can help guide you through it, essentially.

[559] So Paul tells his sponsor the same thing.

[560] He wasn't certain he had committed it, the murders, and his sponsor was like, basically was like, talk to a lawyer.

[561] And the lawyer, who was also in the program, advised Paul to fucking shut the fuck up, stop talking about it, continue staying sober, and go to a therapist.

[562] Basically, he was like, stop talking about it because he kept giving more and more details.

[563] Really?

[564] Yeah, like he started to believe it.

[565] Okay.

[566] But Paul couldn't stop remembering details and he couldn't stop talking about it.

[567] So for two years, he told at least seven people in Alcoholics Anonymous about the vivid memories that were coming back to him.

[568] No one said a thing.

[569] So, okay, basically in 1993, this woman wants to move into his apartment with other roommates in the program.

[570] And he's like, okay, you can move in, but I have to tell you something first.

[571] I have nightmares and sometimes wake up screaming.

[572] because I think I might have killed someone back when I had a blackout, but I don't remember fully what happened.

[573] See, now I'm on his lawyer's side.

[574] That's just like, why would you be telling people that if you don't know for sure?

[575] Yeah.

[576] All of it.

[577] She moves in anyways.

[578] Okay.

[579] You know, to each his own, et cetera.

[580] So, Mrs. H., she's known by Mrs. H. She decides to move in anyways, but after a couple months, she has to move out for health reasons.

[581] And finally, in January 1993, after two years since he first started telling people about his flashbacks, she finally tells her therapist about it, Ms. H does, and she's like, yeah, you've got to go to the police about this.

[582] So after telling as many as seven people in AA about these flashbacks that he started to think were real, who because of the anonymous nature of the program, Alcoholics Anonymous, kept the info to themselves.

[583] we had a, sorry, we had a friend who joined AA and used to come home and tell us every person that was at the meeting, all famous people constantly, and so my friend Laura called it, he's going to A, because there is no anonymous, and she's just like, he's going to his A meeting.

[584] Oh, my God.

[585] I always felt very guilty because I knew deep down I was going to end up there soon.

[586] And I'd just be like, yeah, I hope no one tells all of my fucking secrets.

[587] But that's very Hollywood, because it was always just celebrity, you know, whatever.

[588] So finally, Paul's story comes out to police.

[589] This is the story.

[590] In 1988, when Paul was just 21 years old, he was enrolled at Belmont Abbey College in Belmont, North Carolina.

[591] And he had just learned that he was flunking out on all of his classes.

[592] Been there.

[593] Yeah, when he had to go home for the holidays.

[594] So it's December 30th.

[595] He'd been drinking heavily all day and a night with his friends.

[596] They're at a local bar at that night, and they're drinking tons of beer and kamikazis, which is a fucking mistake, let me tell you.

[597] What are kamikas?

[598] It's vodka.

[599] I just got acid reflux hearing the word kamikaze.

[600] I haven't heard that drink name in so long.

[601] Those are the ones that are like, it's the bunch of liquor mixed together.

[602] And it's so it's a little shot that's kind of sweet.

[603] It's like, what the fuck's in there?

[604] Vodka Midori and like, or like vodka and some kind of orange.

[605] liqueur.

[606] The kamikaze is made of equal parts vodka, triple sec, and lime juice.

[607] No. You guys, stop consuming so much sugar in your drinks.

[608] Don't do that.

[609] It's going to make you even...

[610] It makes you so much more hungover.

[611] It's like adds to the pain.

[612] But also it just like, it makes a go down easier in the front.

[613] It's all part of the bad decision making where you're just like, I guess I'll have, you know what, just put four sugar cubes in a shot of Bailey's Irish cream.

[614] Oh no. So they're fucking...

[615] Absolutely shit -faced.

[616] Yeah.

[617] And eventually, because he's drunk, he gets into his car.

[618] It's his mom's bar of the car to drive his friends home.

[619] Oof.

[620] Yeah.

[621] Since he was drunk driving, he misses a sharp turn and crashes into a guardrail.

[622] Okay.

[623] And the car won't start back up again.

[624] So they all get out of the car.

[625] And friends are like, we're walking back to the bar.

[626] Fuck this.

[627] And he's like, I'm just going to walk in the opposite direction home.

[628] So he leaves the car there.

[629] And what happens next, he says he has no memory of it until he, began to get sober.

[630] So instead of walking to his family home, Paul goes to the home he had lived in until he was seven years old.

[631] So that was the first seven years of his life.

[632] Obviously, why did I say that?

[633] Just so everyone's sure.

[634] Does everyone know math?

[635] If you're seven, that means you've lived seven years.

[636] Okay.

[637] Which his family had sold in 1974.

[638] So the home had been bought and was still inhabited by Dr. Lachman, Roachman.

[639] Rao Shervu, who's 58, and his wife, Dr. Shanta Shervu, she's 51.

[640] The Shavu's are a well -liked and respected family.

[641] They had left Bombay, India in 1968 with just the shirts on their back in order to start a new life in L .A. Nope.

[642] In order to start a new life in the U .S. Eventually, Dr. Shervoo, Mr. Shervey, was able to get his Ph .D. in nuclear chemistry.

[643] he lands eventually Mr. Sherivu is able to use his PhD in nuclear chemistry to get a job as a professor of nuclear medicine at Einstein -Montefort Hospital like big time big -time smart people and in 1974 the family is able to buy the Cox's house in the upscale town of Larchmont, New York where they had been living.

[644] So they had two children and while she raised them Mrs. Dr. Shervue is that right?

[645] worked as a lab technician Well, she's a doctor too, right?

[646] Yeah, yeah.

[647] So just Dr. Charvoo.

[648] I just want to make it clear that I'm talking about her.

[649] Dr. Rett.

[650] I almost said, got it.

[651] Cancel, cancel, cancel.

[652] I have to say this right now.

[653] The pressure building in me of what the story is about to be about the Charvus is so upsetting to me. Yeah, you're right.

[654] It's so upsetting to me and it's awful.

[655] Let's blame Jeannie G. Oh, yeah.

[656] This is your fault.

[657] No, it's awful.

[658] It's terrible.

[659] It's so bad.

[660] They had two kids and while she raised them, Dr. Ashanta worked as a lab technician.

[661] She later goes back to school for her MBA and in her fucking 40s she went to medical school in order to reach her lifelong goal of becoming a doctor.

[662] So these are hardworking, intelligent people that are giving back to the community and important members.

[663] They are using their privilege.

[664] They're using their privilege for good.

[665] That's right.

[666] And at the time she was a resident in geriatrics.

[667] So they put their children through Princeton.

[668] They supported family members back home in India and they helped eight of their siblings immigrate to the U .S. And they were hardworking, intelligent, reliable people, which is why in January 2nd, 1989, after no one in their life had heard from the couple, the family member goes to the house to check on them.

[669] And when they go around to the back of the house, they see that one of the panes of glass in the back door has been broken out.

[670] And so the family member, there's no cell phones, remember, and you just want to go in and contaminate the crime scene, gets in his car, drives to the police station, and makes them come back with him.

[671] Wow.

[672] So when the police arrive, they go to the master bedroom, and they find what they described as a war zone.

[673] It's awful.

[674] There's blood spattered on the vaulted ceilings, which is crazy.

[675] And on the walls and on the floors, it's horrible.

[676] And the bodies of the two doctors are lying on their bed, roused still under the covers.

[677] and Shanta across the bed with her head on his arm.

[678] Shanta had been stabbed nine times.

[679] Rayo had been stabbed 15 times to their faces, to their bodies, and both of their throats had been slashed.

[680] Oh, my God.

[681] It's just horrid.

[682] Oh, my God.

[683] There's no sexual assault.

[684] There's no robbery.

[685] There's no murder weapon found.

[686] There's a handprint or a palm print found at the scene on the pillow, but they didn't match the more than 60 prints investigators compared them to.

[687] investigators were like well you know what probably happened is two hired Indian assassins as part of a vendetta had killed the Sherivus and then fled the country that's what their that's what their conclusion was when they couldn't figure out who it was yeah not seeing it no that of course upset the Shero family because they felt like their immigrant status made it so that their case wasn't being taken seriously and well and also just how convenient you make up the most convenient story and then go well that's probably what Right, with no evidence that that's the case.

[688] And then, oh, okay, so then I guess you can close it because the people from India were killed by people from India who left and went back to India.

[689] Stuff like that doesn't happen here.

[690] So it must have been outsiders, that thinking.

[691] So for over four years, there's no suspects in the murders of the doctors.

[692] Back to Ms. H., telling the police the story that Paul had told her, including the fact that he said he did it because he had a blackout and had a flashback of abuse and thought he was killed.

[693] killing his parents.

[694] So he went back to his childhood home, which they don't talk about, but you and I, this is an opinion podcast, can fucking speculate as to what happened and, you know, the abuse that he must have been suffering.

[695] To want to kill his parents.

[696] Yes.

[697] She tells them that he had told other AA members as well.

[698] And so they bring all those AA members in and they're like, why didn't you tell us what's wrong with you?

[699] The Sharvoo family is.

[700] But you wouldn't.

[701] If it's a person.

[702] Yeah, because it's not proven.

[703] it's not it's a person saying I'm afraid I did this thing yeah which is as real as it is not real right and it's not on those people who are listening to a person kind of dump what however many years of a drug abuse and like confusion you wouldn't go oh I'm going to take this fear you have and go report you for it but the more details he starts to over the two years the more details he starts to come out and then he's he says because he knows if this is in his town so he knows about these murders oh he does yeah Because it's his old house.

[704] It comes on the news the next morning.

[705] Yeah, that's...

[706] The more detail that comes out than the more...

[707] It turns to not...

[708] Yeah, that you have to do something about it.

[709] So he thought he was killing his parents.

[710] When he sees the news the next morning, he realizes what happened.

[711] So the Sherivu family is super pissed that so many people knew who murdered their parents for two years, but hadn't come forward while they suffered.

[712] So the now 25 -year -old Paul Cox, he's a carpenter at this point.

[713] He's arrested on May 20th, 1993, And in addition to the statements of AA members, the police had a matching palm print of coxes from the scene.

[714] Right.

[715] So Paul claims that he had woken up the next morning after the murders.

[716] He said he was covered in blood and he didn't know what it was, what was going on.

[717] He had the kitchen that he had taken from the kitchen, the sheriff's kitchen after he had broken in.

[718] But he didn't remember anything from the night before.

[719] And so here's a little detail I saw.

[720] Either he or his mother incinerated his bloody clothes.

[721] Oh.

[722] Initially, he was saying that his mom took the clothes and just incinerated them.

[723] Yeah.

[724] So she must have had a fucking clue, right?

[725] Right.

[726] I mean, yeah, you don't burn clothes.

[727] No one burns clothes anymore.

[728] It's not, you know.

[729] Right.

[730] The tens.

[731] No. 1910s, not the 2010s.

[732] And then Paul took the knife and he throws it in a nearby lake.

[733] Yeah, he does.

[734] Yeah.

[735] So he must have, I mean.

[736] So he knew more than he knew.

[737] Yeah.

[738] I think he knew.

[739] He later saw the news report about the murder of the sheriff.

[740] And he tells people later that he went back to the house to try to clean any fingerprints.

[741] So at that point, he went back to his old childhood home where he broke in.

[742] And oh, yeah, now this changes everything.

[743] Right?

[744] Yeah.

[745] Well, that's what's interesting.

[746] Telling the story from his perspective, I have so much empathy for a person who is like that.

[747] Yeah.

[748] Now that we are hearing it from the Chavu's perspective, which is these are two innocent people living a great life in a house they happen to buy.

[749] and a monster breaks in the middle of the night and murders them in cold fucking blood.

[750] But it's hard for me to be like, well, he might still have had been blacked out, you know?

[751] But he could, I don't, I'm not fucking making, I don't think that that's an excuse at all.

[752] No, no. It's just, but as soon as he knew, I mean, what is he going to?

[753] Yeah.

[754] It's just weird.

[755] It's like, you know that he has a reason, but it's certainly no excuse.

[756] No. And it's not a very, vague concept now that we know that he knew the news story that's not a vague concept that's he knew exactly what he did and he just didn't know it he wasn't positive because he didn't have the exact memory right but he can put two and two together yeah exactly but I mean like what would you like would you turn yourself in?

[757] Yes fuck yes you did the bad thing sorry that's part of what being an alcoholic and being a blackout drunk knowing that you can fuck up like that the second you even begin to put that together at least come forward and say this could be me. You might want to check some prints of mine.

[758] I mean, that's what he should have done.

[759] Totally.

[760] So he claimed he didn't remember the killings until after he sobered up in 1990 and that at the time he thought he was killing his parents.

[761] So the state charges Paul Cox with four counts of murder, two for intentional murder, and two for depraved indifference murder.

[762] Shit.

[763] Cox's attorney decides to go with the defense of not guilty by reason of insanity, saying Paul was in a psychotic state when he killed a couple.

[764] The psychiatrist for the defense said Paul had snapped after a lifetime of being pushed to succeed and having been emotionally neglected by his mother and father and from the humiliating way they handled his chronic boyhood bedwetting.

[765] So and had during a blackout killed them essentially so he thought.

[766] I just wonder, there had to be more than that, right?

[767] Like the abuse that had, his wedding is bad.

[768] always a sign of sexual abuse.

[769] I mean, perhaps.

[770] Yeah.

[771] But even then, he, you can't kill your parents.

[772] You can't.

[773] There's so many abuse people that don't kill their abusers.

[774] Like, there has to be a line drawn where no matter what your reasons are, they're not justifiable reasons, I think.

[775] Yeah.

[776] And so he says it's, the psychiatrist says it's almost as if he were going back in time and eliminating the people he sought to blame for all his problems back when he was seven years old.

[777] So when the seven AA members are subpoenaed to testify against Paul, they're like, well, what the fuck?

[778] They claim their statements should be considered as privileged, just like clergy attorneys and psychiatrists.

[779] They're bound by AA principles of confidentiality, which I've been to AA and NA meetings for some time on and off.

[780] I would never think that it's confidential.

[781] No. I mean, confidential between two people, but not legally binding confidentiality.

[782] Right.

[783] Right.

[784] No, I would never assume that.

[785] No. But the judges...

[786] And they're not clergy people.

[787] They're not...

[788] Well, it's not the same.

[789] Because it's a spirit...

[790] They say because it's spiritual...

[791] What's it called?

[792] Element?

[793] Yeah.

[794] Or like, it's spiritually grounded.

[795] I mean, sure.

[796] Up until a point and I think that point is murder.

[797] Right.

[798] I think.

[799] I agree.

[800] So the judge is like, no way, dude.

[801] And rules that the...

[802] Oh, the judge agrees.

[803] Yeah.

[804] Thank God.

[805] And rules that the state law does not extend privilege to self -help groups, which is essentially what it is.

[806] All seven AA members are ordered to testify, but they're...

[807] they let them just use like Miss H and like let them use not full names and their photos are forbidden to be taken.

[808] The first trial ends on June 28th in a mistrial after this one fucking juror who sounds like just sounds like everyone's worst nightmare would not accept the other 11 jurors' conclusion that Paul Cox was not temporarily insane when he killed the Chervoos.

[809] Then this she had doubts that Paul had even committed the murder even though the defense admitted that he had.

[810] So she just, like, was not...

[811] She wasn't accepting the facts that were being presented to her.

[812] She was gone off on her own.

[813] She would not get on the carousel and take a ride with them.

[814] The carousel of facts.

[815] Right.

[816] It's real fun.

[817] Yeah, get on there.

[818] So they declare a mistrial.

[819] So Paul Cox went to a second trial.

[820] And by the way, he had already been bailed out by his parents for, like, 200 grand and was home on house arrest.

[821] which is what privilege gets you.

[822] Wow.

[823] The parents knowing that they wanted.

[824] Isn't that, that be the creepiest part?

[825] I mean, yeah.

[826] Come on home.

[827] Hoof, a lot going on here.

[828] Yeah.

[829] So he goes to a second trial in December of 1994, and one difference is that Paul decides to testify in his trial.

[830] He tries to get the jury's sympathy by telling of all the abuse he suffered, such as having, I'm not kidding at this, they gave him gross sandwiches in his school lunch.

[831] his parents sometimes missed his sports games his siblings didn't wish him a happy birthday and the gold stars he would get if he didn't wet his bed so he says that's how he was what about those gold stars he didn't get them they weren't big enough what's a problem just the gold star is showing that he would wet his bed in general you know or not uh you look mad i'm livid i feel tricked that i empathized with him in the beginning uh after delivering for eight days the jury rejected the insanity defense, but they also rejected the prosecution's request of a verdict of murder, and they found that he committed the murders under extreme emotional disturbance and found him guilty of two counts of manslaughter in the first degree.

[832] So now 27 years old, Paul Cox is sentenced to two, like two eight and a half to 25 year sentences to be served consecutively.

[833] So the convictions are appealed because the AA members, they're, they're, it's more of the the clergy convent privilege saying that it was a religion.

[834] So they're trying to overturn his whole appeal based on the AA being being privileged information.

[835] Westchester County, DA, Janine Piro's like, hell no. Oh, Janine Piro.

[836] We know her from Fox News.

[837] Oh, really?

[838] Yeah, she's a judge and it appears a lot on Fox News and gets, she's been arrested for speeding at like 130 miles an hour.

[839] Oh, my God.

[840] Among other things, look up for yourself.

[841] She might be your hero.

[842] Well, she takes this to the Court of Appeals and they agree with her and said that when he talked to AA members about the crime, he was just unburdening himself and seeking empathy and guidance, not a spiritual, you know, revelation.

[843] No. But you can't find anything online.

[844] All I could find was he was released in March of 2015.

[845] He said at the trial, or a sentencing, I'm profoundly sorry for this tragedy to the Sherivu family as well as my own family.

[846] I was very sick at the time of these actions and I will regret them for the rest of my life.

[847] Yeah, I bet.

[848] And that is the blackout murders.

[849] Wow.

[850] That's a real emotional and moral quandary there.

[851] Totally.

[852] There's a lot going on, but you can't I feel like once once you start hearing about there were actual victims, this was a real murder.

[853] This was not a blackout concept yeah and people in town like cited with him and his family being like it could have been any it could have been any of our kids that did that but it's like can we talk about this fucking innocent couple who were sleeping and happened to buy the how you know it's just well maybe and maybe that's true that it could have been any other kids that did it but that what they're saying is any of our kids could be a murderer so once your kid is a murder you have to go from there yeah once that is the thing that gets done it's not a concept and and the and the goal should not be to figure out how it's okay that they did that how to get him out of trouble the goal should be you fucking did it you took human lives that matters let's please have this matter in a real way yeah let's get justice for the share of the family oh god damn it yeah also i feel like the psych i was thinking when you were talking about the part of it being a psychotic episode but there is a logic to him going to his childhood home that that uh i feel like if i was uh a lawyer, and let's hope I'm not.

[854] It might be.

[855] That would actually indicate logical thinking.

[856] See, to me, it's the opposite.

[857] Because he went to a home that he hadn't lived in for, what's math, 13 years.

[858] Right.

[859] And killed his parents, even though they hadn't lived there for 13 years.

[860] Like, that's how deeply ingrained his pain and his, you know, his anger was.

[861] Sure, but he didn't just go.

[862] he didn't just walk and go into a random home.

[863] That's my thing, is that I feel like if you were in a psychotic state, he would be walking and then kill the first two a man and woman adult couple that he finds.

[864] But he didn't want to kill people.

[865] He wanted to kill his parents.

[866] Right.

[867] So therefore, he does the thing of going to back where he thinks his parents are.

[868] Yeah.

[869] I don't know.

[870] I mean, I guess you could argue at both sides before the exact same fact.

[871] Yeah.

[872] But I'm looking at it as it seems like that's actually a planned thing.

[873] And therefore, whether there are, they literally are his parents, he is, that is premeditated murder.

[874] Yeah.

[875] So even, it doesn't make it better that it's, is his parents or is not his parents.

[876] Yeah.

[877] It's an act of premeditated murder within a, uh, alcohol of blackout.

[878] Yeah.

[879] Ugh.

[880] Crazy.

[881] Fuck, that's a nuts story.

[882] Yeah.

[883] I've never heard that.

[884] I haven't either.

[885] I was hoping the whole time you were going to tell me it wasn't real and that he somehow finds the real.

[886] killer or something.

[887] Oh, I'm sorry.

[888] No, it's certainly not your fault.

[889] That's not it.

[890] Shit.

[891] Yeah, that's a hot.

[892] That's a touchy one.

[893] Yeah.

[894] Man. Yeah.

[895] Great.

[896] For real.

[897] I mean, oh, thank you.

[898] Great.

[899] Terribleness.

[900] Shit.

[901] Thank you.

[902] Are you ready to get into it?

[903] Let's do it.

[904] To move right along.

[905] Let's move in.

[906] Let's settle into this one.

[907] I also took a request from a, from a listener.

[908] This is fun.

[909] And this one I liked because I feel like it goes along.

[910] You do these sometimes and I find them so delightful.

[911] I like to put it in the file of outrageous criminals.

[912] So it's a little bit lighter and a little bit, a tiny bit less.

[913] Okay.

[914] This is the story of Scott Scurlock, the Hollywood Bandit.

[915] Okay.

[916] All right.

[917] I don't know it yet.

[918] Okay.

[919] So I'm going to tell it to you.

[920] Do it.

[921] This was suggested by a listener and their Twitter handle is at Doc.

[922] underline, under slash, under slash, lower bar, small line, way at the bottom.

[923] What's it called?

[924] Underscore, Stephen, the millennial.

[925] It's at Doc underscore Honeybear.

[926] Okay.

[927] And they're the ones that suggested this one.

[928] Thank you very much.

[929] Thank you for thinking of us.

[930] So I got this from Wikipedia, of course.

[931] Please give $5 if you can.

[932] an article from hubpages .com, which I don't think I've ever seen before.

[933] It's a really good article called William Scott Turlock, the Hollywood bank robber, and the end of the dream.

[934] And that's written by a writer named Westman Todd Shaw.

[935] Then there's an article on history link .org written by Darrell C. McLary.

[936] And also some information was taken from an article found on the Washington Secretary of State's blog called From Our Corner.

[937] Oh, wow.

[938] Is there a muffin recipe?

[939] Oh, my God.

[940] Please take that up.

[941] The State Secretary of Washington is a woman named Kim Wyman.

[942] Okay.

[943] Apparently, she fucking blogs.

[944] Love it.

[945] Good for her.

[946] Feelings, dreams.

[947] Challenges.

[948] Albums she's listening to these days.

[949] Five -day challenge.

[950] And then also just remember this crazy crime.

[951] Yeah.

[952] Okay.

[953] Let's talk about Scott Sirlock, who is the Hollywood Bandit.

[954] He was born on March.

[955] 5th, 195 in Fairfax County, Virginia.

[956] His father was a Baptist minister.

[957] His mother was an elementary school teacher.

[958] He has three sisters.

[959] But as opposed to like the usual typical Hollywood thing of like the minister is all strict and, you know, whatever.

[960] In fact, it was the opposite.

[961] His parents were very permissive.

[962] And Scott basically did whatever he wanted.

[963] He was also charming, charismatic and manipulative.

[964] And as he got older, he started looking like Mel Gibson.

[965] So he was actually becoming a human monster in that he clearly did what he wanted and used his kind of like manipulative charm to get his way.

[966] Part of it.

[967] I mean, experienced it firsthand.

[968] So.

[969] And actually looking at pictures, he to me looks less like Mel Gibson and more like the sheriff from Jaws.

[970] What's that actor's name?

[971] Roy Shider Roy Shider You burp that one out That was amazing To watch that I barped it up From my internal guts Please watch Jaws Rewatch Jaws If you haven't watched it in a while It's supposed to this sack I'm carrying outside my body Filled with Bile So in 1974 He's 19 years old and he decides to move to Hawaii Because his friend Kevin Myers Is going to the University of Hawaii So he's like I'm going to go chill out there.

[972] So Kevin then flunks out of the University of Hawaii.

[973] And so the two of them go to Plan B working on a tomato farm on a Wahoo.

[974] Great.

[975] Right.

[976] Everyone's Plan B in 1976.

[977] So they do that for a little while, like a year and a half.

[978] And then one day they're on a hike.

[979] And this is in 1976.

[980] And they walk across some of the neighbors land.

[981] And they happen upon.

[982] a bunch of pot plants.

[983] Oh, right.

[984] And they see that they take it as a sign that it's time to enact Plan C, which is stealing all these pot plants, selling pot, and making a profit off of it.

[985] Don't steal drugs from drug dealers, guys.

[986] No, they're like, no, we're all about this.

[987] This is the life that we want to live.

[988] So Plan C seamlessly leads into Plan D, which is secretly growing pot plants on the tomato farm where they work.

[989] Wow, that's complicated.

[990] Right?

[991] But this is just, this is God's plan in action for them.

[992] They're just seeing it coming to them because they're like, things are kind of falling apart and now we're basically helpers of a tomato farmer.

[993] And then suddenly it's like, ah, yeah.

[994] The song from the Little Mermaid plays.

[995] And the pot gets its legs.

[996] And it marries the prince.

[997] What do you come?

[998] Feet.

[999] The pot grows feet and holds up a fork and calls it a whatcham ado.

[1000] and a dingley dom.

[1001] So.

[1002] So I laughed really hard when I was like, so they took these, they started growing pot plants on the tomato farm.

[1003] Because in my mind, remembering my cousin growing pot in her mother's field, pot plants grow very tall in the wild.

[1004] She actually grew sunflower's plants around so she could hide the pot plants.

[1005] Smart.

[1006] You're narking out your cousin right now.

[1007] Well, it was, you know, fucking 40 years ago.

[1008] Yeah.

[1009] But, so I started laughing because I was picturing tomato plants being low to the ground.

[1010] So there's just like, it looks like Christmas trees.

[1011] And then I looked it up online and, of course, tomato plants can grow very tall.

[1012] And tomato plant leaves kind of look like pot leaves.

[1013] Oh, okay.

[1014] So they blend real nice.

[1015] I was thinking, I actually realized I was thinking of pumpkins.

[1016] So anyhow.

[1017] My parents lived on a tomato farm.

[1018] For real?

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] in Israel.

[1021] Did they really?

[1022] Yeah.

[1023] Did they work the farm?

[1024] Yeah, you had to.

[1025] It was a Moshev, so it's like a kibbutz wherever.

[1026] It's like the community has to.

[1027] It's like a mochav so it's like a kibbutz.

[1028] Oh.

[1029] We know.

[1030] I can be sent to you.

[1031] Sorry.

[1032] No, no, no. I love it.

[1033] It's basically like a community that all works together and the money's all, you know.

[1034] That's rat.

[1035] Did they do that in the 60s and 70s?

[1036] Yeah.

[1037] Hell yes.

[1038] Was Janet's hair so long, far long past her butt.

[1039] Not past her but it was long and my parents were so beautiful.

[1040] Yes.

[1041] They're still beautiful.

[1042] They both are incredibly attractive people.

[1043] Thank you.

[1044] When I see pictures of your mom, I get low self -esteem.

[1045] Because Janet's blowout is major.

[1046] She is perfectly put together.

[1047] Yeah.

[1048] She has, you, you're a beautiful group, you hard starts.

[1049] Thank you.

[1050] You are.

[1051] Hot cousins.

[1052] Yeah.

[1053] Listen, I'm trying to tell a fucking story.

[1054] Hey.

[1055] Hey.

[1056] Hey.

[1057] So.

[1058] So eventually the farmer from the tomato farm, old McDonald's local, he finds the pot plants and he gets rid of the two of them.

[1059] Okay.

[1060] So Scott decides it's time to move back to the mainland.

[1061] So in 1978, he moves back to Olympia, Washington, and enrolls in school to become a doctor at Evergreen State College.

[1062] All right.

[1063] So suddenly out of the blue, he's decided, and maybe this is something he wanted to do before and he was just too hot and manipulative to do it or whatever.

[1064] He's a doctor.

[1065] A doctor.

[1066] So he goes to school to be a doctor.

[1067] And he's very good.

[1068] He's very good in chemistry class.

[1069] But his old easy money drug dealer life still calls to him.

[1070] Absolutely.

[1071] So he uses his chemistry skills in a visionary manner, breaking bad style, and starts cooking meth in the chem lab.

[1072] Wow.

[1073] You can't do that.

[1074] Yeah, he can and did.

[1075] And I wonder if he later wanted to.

[1076] Oh, no, he wouldn't have.

[1077] but he should have sued.

[1078] Okay.

[1079] So, I wonder if, like, that's the Breaking Bad people who heard this story.

[1080] But, yeah.

[1081] So essentially, he starts making fucking bank.

[1082] Oh, my God.

[1083] Cooking and selling meth.

[1084] And, of course, doing meth.

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] Because he is in med school.

[1087] He's got to fucking get through.

[1088] So he makes so much money selling meth that he is able to buy himself a 20 -acre plot of land near Olympia that's really.

[1089] secluded that has a small house on it.

[1090] Wow.

[1091] And now just simultaneously, and as like a footnote to this portion of the story, I want to remind anyone who has never seen, I believe it's the Oregonian newspaper from Portland, they have, it was from the early 2000s, I believe, that's when I first saw it, is their series faces of meth.

[1092] When meth became such a huge problem up there.

[1093] They started that?

[1094] No, no, I'm just saying that on this side, it's a guy that's like, yeah, let's see.

[1095] get meth going.

[1096] Oh, that one.

[1097] And meth began to ravage the Pacific Northwest in such a serious way that they started showing the mugshots of people who were getting arrested for petty crimes and then went on meth.

[1098] And the series of mugshots that's one of the most upsetting and disturbing things where over a series of like five to seven years, you watch a young person look like they're 75 years old because of this drug.

[1099] This drug is the worst.

[1100] I still can't believe I got out of it without like meth teeth or like looking methed out.

[1101] You you basically got like grazed by a semi instead of hit by a drug.

[1102] I dipped a 14 year old toe in it and then got burned and step back.

[1103] Bless it.

[1104] Fucking God.

[1105] Blessed be.

[1106] Jesus Christ.

[1107] I know it's crazy.

[1108] It's thank God.

[1109] Because your skin would look so bad.

[1110] we're the worst people okay so but I just bring that up because in this story it goes on and he's kind of like this successful fucking meth maker and distributor and dealer and there is this other side to that where he's fucking living like a king because everybody fucking quote unquote loves meth is getting sick and addicted they're so addicted it's like meth is the one where it's like you do it once and you're done for it's terrible it's terrible it's scourge Okay, so.

[1111] But not on Scott's side of the side of things.

[1112] He makes so much money.

[1113] He's got his plot of land.

[1114] And he uses the real house on the property to cook the meth in.

[1115] And then he decides to build himself, and this is the methiest project of all time, a three -story, 1500 square foot tree house to live in.

[1116] Wow.

[1117] And this tree house spans seven cedar trees.

[1118] And it has running water.

[1119] It has electricity.

[1120] It has an outdoor bathtub.

[1121] It has a zip line running from the house through the woods for quote unquote emergency escapes.

[1122] And it has my favorite treehouse amenity of all time.

[1123] A large fireplace.

[1124] No. Don't do that.

[1125] You're on drugs.

[1126] Hello and welcome.

[1127] You're on drugs.

[1128] You know what I need for my tree house?

[1129] A fireplace.

[1130] A fireplace.

[1131] I want a wood.

[1132] I want a log stack too so I can get wood for fire.

[1133] Can you go down and get me some wood and bring it back up into the tree house so we can have a nice roaring fucking fire and do huge rails of meth mixed with baby laxative and fucking chlorox?

[1134] Oh, my God.

[1135] Guys, calm down, Karen.

[1136] So he brags to his buddies that he built the tree house in two weeks.

[1137] Are you serious?

[1138] If someone told me that, I'd be like, well, I'm never going up there.

[1139] You should take longer.

[1140] Yeah, you should really go over.

[1141] it actually turned out that the truth of it was it took him a couple months but to him it felt like a couple weeks because he was on meth yeah time flies when you're tweaked out as hell when you don't sleep in your eyes just stay open for 18 days in a row um he ends up hiring his friend kevin's brother steve meyers who was a very successful sculptor who's fallen on hard times and needs money so he says oh i'll pay you to come and help me work on the treehouse according to According to Steve, and this is a quote from Wikipedia, quote, there was nothing in the house that was conscientiously designed, and that's very much what Scott was like, a .k .a. on meth.

[1142] Of this tree house?

[1143] I didn't see any.

[1144] It's the thing where you see the photos of like when spiders take, they give spider certain drugs and then they show you what their web looks like.

[1145] That just makes me think of that.

[1146] They give meth heads tools.

[1147] And then they.

[1148] It's the big human spider web of a treehouse project on that long awry gone.

[1149] It's like, can we get more fire elements into this tree house?

[1150] I don't know.

[1151] Is this the candle room?

[1152] We'll just have lit candles in here all the time.

[1153] I mean, it's just a fucking nightmare.

[1154] So, he's living that treehouse life, right?

[1155] He's just blazing off of all his drug money.

[1156] He has, quote, this is my favorite piece of research, a free and open demean, I'm fucking, no shit.

[1157] Oh, you're not going to be like conservative.

[1158] No, not on meth.

[1159] No. You might have started conservative, but then slowly, but surely your tie gets loose and you have a quote, free and open demeanor.

[1160] He walks around nude a lot and he travels a ton and he has lots of girlfriends, which in my mind when I read that, it was all happening at the airport at once.

[1161] It was like the fucking naked guys here again.

[1162] He's going to fucking Ibitha with three girls.

[1163] And he's nude.

[1164] Whoa.

[1165] He's nude at Gate B. So he also becomes known for really, you know, being a free spender, which is very nice of him.

[1166] He actually people start, he's known around town for leaving waitresses like $1 ,000 tips.

[1167] He makes so much money.

[1168] He drops out of med school.

[1169] Sure.

[1170] No, Dr. Meth.

[1171] Come back.

[1172] Please.

[1173] You're needed.

[1174] This world needs you.

[1175] We need someone that can't stop talking.

[1176] here in the emergency room.

[1177] Okay, so in 1989, Scott's main meth distributor gets murdered on the job.

[1178] Oh, Jesus.

[1179] This is not about that murder.

[1180] Okay.

[1181] And we don't know that person's name, but it scares Scott so badly that he stops cooking and selling meth entirely.

[1182] Sure.

[1183] Because he knows that he's been fucking around and basically getting away with something.

[1184] Yeah.

[1185] Then he looks around and goes, oh shit, my tree house has a fireplace.

[1186] This is not a way any person should live Just kidding.

[1187] He never says that.

[1188] He spends the next few years living off his remaining drug earnings.

[1189] And then when that's gone, he starts digging up all the drugs he's sealed in plastic buckets and buried around his property.

[1190] And starts selling that off.

[1191] He's like, I took a break and I'm back.

[1192] Yeah.

[1193] Baby.

[1194] But basically, that was his, that was his nest egg.

[1195] That was his 401k that he had buried in buckets around the property.

[1196] So once...

[1197] Does meth stay fresh?

[1198] I...

[1199] You tell me. I don't know.

[1200] There's never any left.

[1201] It can't.

[1202] Yeah, exactly.

[1203] That all happened in a three -week period.

[1204] But basically, the money starts to run out.

[1205] He realizes he needs to come up with more money somehow.

[1206] And that's when he comes up with Plan E. Oh, you think.

[1207] Yeah.

[1208] We've gone to Plan E. He's walking away from this highly unethical life as a drug kingpin to follow what he's discovered now as his true passion.

[1209] robbing banks oh my god so yes he basically is like I'm gonna get away from this meth life and I'm gonna do what I really want you know it feels safer and saner at this point you know what I've always so he literally tells Steve Myers he's always dreamt of robbing banks and giving the money away Robin Hood style that's dumb and then Oprah comes in sideways from the side dips in and goes follow that dream Scott do it Oprah told me I hallucinated Oprah in front of the fireplace.

[1210] So basically, this is a very positive way of saying he hit fucking rock bottom on meth and had no other alternatives or a place to go.

[1211] So he calls up another old friend from college, a guy named Mark Biggins.

[1212] And he had also hired Mark to work on the tree house.

[1213] Basically, he was this psychotic rich guy on meth who was like, my old broke friends, are you going through hard times?

[1214] I'll pay you to come do drugs and like put up tree.

[1215] house, uh, construction new wings.

[1216] Yeah, exactly.

[1217] I mean, good on you.

[1218] Like, your friends need help, but then they become math addicts.

[1219] It's very Winchester mystery house on math.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] Is what I, in a tree, I'm saying it.

[1222] So, so basically he calls Mark.

[1223] He's at, Mark again is having financial trouble.

[1224] Scott uses us to convince him basically to rob a bank with him.

[1225] Okay.

[1226] Dude, fucking do it.

[1227] Bros. Before hose.

[1228] Do it.

[1229] And so then Mark was like, sure.

[1230] So, So just before noon on June 25th, 1992, Scott and Mark walk into the C -first bank at a 4112 East Madison Street in Olympia, Washington.

[1231] Scott's wearing a fake nose and heavy theatrical makeup.

[1232] Mark's wearing a Ronald Reagan mask.

[1233] I feel like Rule 1 of robbing bank should be like, go to a different town.

[1234] Yes.

[1235] Right?

[1236] Yes.

[1237] Don't do your hometown bank.

[1238] That's right.

[1239] Because get away, drive.

[1240] Yeah.

[1241] You're like, around the corner, trying to hide a car.

[1242] I mean, like, yeah, 100%.

[1243] I think we're.

[1244] And Olympia is like a small town, kind of.

[1245] It's not a, it's not a huge metropolis, that's for sure.

[1246] So they get inside.

[1247] They steal $19 ,971 in cash.

[1248] They go outside.

[1249] They successfully steal a car from one of the customers at the bank so it can't be traced to them.

[1250] But Mark's the getaway driver and he kind of can't handle it.

[1251] so he floods the engine on this car.

[1252] Come on!

[1253] Which means they stole a car old enough to be able to flood the engine.

[1254] But didn't they all do that in 92?

[1255] I don't think you can't.

[1256] I think they stole like an old fucking, like a Ford, like a Nova or something.

[1257] That's a Chevy.

[1258] But they stole some shitty old car and then Mark immediately floods the engine.

[1259] Like guns, it puts his foot all the way down on the gas and then they're just like, dude.

[1260] Oh, no. So they have to get out and run.

[1261] no yes so they're chased by dogs on this run home they have to cross a golf course that's busy and a bunch of fucking people see them run across the golf course and they still manage to get away again the magic of math so now he's not on it anymore well we don't know that well i mean it seems like they might be dabbling the experience scares mark so badly that he tells scott i'm never doing this again but scott actually has the opposite sickness experience because he gets a huge fucking hit of adrenaline and he's like now this is all I want to do for the rest of my life and he can't wait to do it again so Scott taps his old tomato farm friend from Hawaii Kevin to team up with him and serve as a lookout Kevin says no fucking way you idiot but Scott is able to convince him to launder the stolen money at Las Vegas casinos for him okay so um basically now simultaneously he's successful in his first bank robbery and it's the tech boom in Seattle and the like that area in that generalized area.

[1262] So most banks at that time were teeming with cash.

[1263] Yeah.

[1264] Oh yeah.

[1265] And on top of that Scott decides that he's going to invest in a bunch of movie quality masks, costumes and theatrical makeup.

[1266] If we're going to do this, let's do it right.

[1267] Let's really go for it.

[1268] Let's really go for it.

[1269] Because his whole idea is, if, like, if I, I don't, I can go in, they won't be able to recognize me, but for reasons that people, that aren't, people don't normally do.

[1270] Right.

[1271] So, this is about him, him using makeup.

[1272] Scott Scurlock's greatest contribution to the lexicon of bank robbery tactics was the use of theatrical makeup.

[1273] And this completely disguised his face while at the same time not causing the immediate visible stir.

[1274] caused by an idiot wearing a ski mask.

[1275] You also never see theatrical makeup in movies about bank robbery as that's just too good of a tip to give a potential robber.

[1276] So Scott Scurlock had an arrangement where theatrical makeup was bought, ordered, and shipped to a friend who'd nary a clue as to what it was being used for.

[1277] And this is the path to wisdom should there be any in organized crime.

[1278] Oh, my God.

[1279] So apparently he would walk in and people, he would, he would, he would, have like a weird Crohn's face.

[1280] Well, you've seen, like, the Kim Kardashian before and after contouring.

[1281] It looks like a different freaking person.

[1282] Is that like white were they good?

[1283] Yes, it's contouring, but essentially he would give himself an old person's face, but still move like a young person.

[1284] So, people, that's how later on people knew it was the Hollywood Bandit, is they'd be like, oh, this is a weird, this is not the person.

[1285] But in the beginning, it was very effective because it was like, oh, that's an old person or that's like an old woman or something.

[1286] Right.

[1287] That energy would not be there and he wouldn't be, he would have a gun on him.

[1288] But he wouldn't be like waving it around going everybody get down.

[1289] He would just be like a person.

[1290] Yeah.

[1291] And it was super, super low key and super effective.

[1292] Okay.

[1293] So in 1992, Scott disguises himself.

[1294] He arms himself with a handgun and he successfully robs five more banks.

[1295] Holy shit.

[1296] By himself.

[1297] Oh, my God.

[1298] So on August 14th, 1992, he robs the Seafurst Bank again.

[1299] He goes back to the same one.

[1300] they already hit, and he gets $8 ,124 more dollars.

[1301] On September 3rd, he robs the U .S. Bank at 4 ,200 Southwest Edmund Street, and he gets almost $10 ,000.

[1302] On September 11th, 1992, he robs the University Savings and Loan at 4568 Sand Point Way Northeast and gets almost $6 ,000.

[1303] On October 5th, he robs the Great Western Bank at 2610, California Avenue Southwest, and he gets $27 ,500.

[1304] And on November 9th, 1992, he robs the Seafirst Bank at 40 -20 Northeast 55th Street.

[1305] And he gets, he wins, I wrote, a whopping $252 ,000.

[1306] Oh, my God.

[1307] Quit.

[1308] Quit at this point, guy.

[1309] You're ahead.

[1310] You're done.

[1311] But you know why he can't?

[1312] Meth.

[1313] Because now he's high on the deadliest drug of all, hubris.

[1314] I laughed so hard when I wrote that down today.

[1315] Okay.

[1316] He's getting away with it.

[1317] Yeah.

[1318] And it's working.

[1319] So there's no way he's fucking stopping now.

[1320] Police have no idea who this mystery bank robber is.

[1321] They're doing everything they can to catch him.

[1322] They nickname him Hollywood because of his high quality disguises.

[1323] The media picks up on it, gives it his own twist.

[1324] They start calling him the Hollywood bandit, which is in writer's rooms, they would say, don't do lateral pitches.

[1325] If you can't beat the original idea, then just don't pitch at all.

[1326] Anyway.

[1327] Anyone can re -say the things someone else just said.

[1328] That's not being funny.

[1329] That's knowing synonyms.

[1330] Like with a different word?

[1331] Yeah.

[1332] It's like, oh, we're going to call him Hollywood.

[1333] Well, we're going to call him the Hollywood bandit.

[1334] Okay.

[1335] Well, that's the same basic idea.

[1336] Right.

[1337] Okay.

[1338] Quit fucking cheating.

[1339] Okay.

[1340] So, no matter what they call him, the disguises are working because there's almost no evidence and the authorities have no idea.

[1341] And so Scott decides to lay low for a little while.

[1342] Smart.

[1343] Right?

[1344] So he takes his winnings and his earnings and his money.

[1345] And after about a year, he wants to go back to the life.

[1346] So this time he asks Steve Myers help, the guy that helped him with the tree house.

[1347] Okay, okay.

[1348] In my mind, Steve Myers is Steve Zahn.

[1349] You know, that out of sight who's like, yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, kind of a burnout, but like reliable.

[1350] Yes.

[1351] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1352] So Steve's on, plays the part of Steve Myers.

[1353] He's now the lookout.

[1354] And so on November 24, 1993, the day before Thanksgiving, they once again stake out the C -first bank.

[1355] Steve plants himself outside.

[1356] He's listening to a police scanner as Scott goes in holding the gun and wearing makeup on his face.

[1357] But then Steve hears the 911 call coming in about the robbery.

[1358] So he goes, gets Scott, they flee.

[1359] and they basically they get away again they wait about a month and then they proceed to rob five more banks so basically it's U .S. I won't give you the addresses this time because that took too long.

[1360] January 21st U .S. Bank $15 ,000 almost $16 ,000 on that one.

[1361] February 17th C -First Bank it's that same one on Northeast 55th Street this time they get a hundred and fourteen thousand dollars.

[1362] June 24th, they go to first interstate bank in Portland, Oregon on Hopbourne, and they get zero dollars and zero cents because Scott ends up abhorting the mission because he, it says unsafe, what does he say, unsafe conditions?

[1363] You know it was a security guard who was retiring the next day.

[1364] And he's like, fuck this shit, pulls his gun.

[1365] There's no fucking way you guys are getting away with them.

[1366] Not on my watch.

[1367] And then Scott's like, this is unsafe.

[1368] I feel unsafe.

[1369] So that's a zip.

[1370] July 13th, the first interstate bank on Queen 9 Avenue, oops, over $100 ,000 on that one.

[1371] On December 20th, there's a U .S. Bank on Woodstock Boulevard in Portland, and they get $22 ,000 from that.

[1372] So it's another successful year of bank robberies.

[1373] And so Scott takes those victories and goes back to Mark Biggins, who did the very first robbery with him and then quit, the engine flutter.

[1374] and he's like, join this team.

[1375] We're moving forward.

[1376] What do I have to do to prove it to you?

[1377] What do you want?

[1378] Ten.

[1379] Pile money?

[1380] Pile money.

[1381] What do you want me to do?

[1382] I will do a cat eye eyeliner on you.

[1383] I'm really good at it at this point.

[1384] Okay.

[1385] So now they're a trio.

[1386] Okay.

[1387] These guys.

[1388] This is actually really starting to line up pretty severely with the movie out of sight starring George Clooney and J -Lo with Steve's on.

[1389] Oh.

[1390] Actually also in it.

[1391] A lot of movies at the beginning.

[1392] beginning when it was the pot plants.

[1393] I was thinking it was like the beach with later Caprio.

[1394] Then we're moving into this part and it's getting very out of sight with bank robbers in or out of their comfort zone.

[1395] Great in that.

[1396] Oh, the best she's ever been.

[1397] Yeah.

[1398] Second only to hustler.

[1399] Truly.

[1400] So Mark's on board.

[1401] He's the lookout.

[1402] He's the lookout from inside the bank.

[1403] So Steve's watching outside the bank and Scott's doing everything and planning it and orchestrating it.

[1404] So this trio robs two more banks in 1995 But on one of them a die pack explodes And they basically have to bail on the money But they still get away without getting caught So they do on January 18th they get $11 ,000 almost $12 ,000 from the first interstate bank But then they have to bail on $12 ,000 Because it's all got dye on it And then on January 27th they go to the Seafirst Bank and they get $252 ,000.

[1405] Quit, quit now.

[1406] Seriously.

[1407] You've got enough.

[1408] So they think the key to their success is Scott's calm demeanor.

[1409] This is Steve later being interviewed, and he says, Scott's whole point was if you go in crazy with violence and waving a gun and something does happen, what do you do then?

[1410] Most people working in banks realize this guy is not afraid, and that's more frightening and commanding without having to be crazy.

[1411] Wow.

[1412] tactics.

[1413] So he kind of went in with some weird makeup on his face and it was just like give me your money, it's me. And they all kind of went, oh, okay.

[1414] So, of course, now the cops in the area have called in the FBI.

[1415] The FBI thinks still it's only this one robber.

[1416] They don't know that there's other people on the team.

[1417] And of course, they don't have any evidence because none of the, if there is security footage, it's an unrecognizable person.

[1418] The Washington State Bankers Association and the Crime Stoppers of Puget Sound banned together.

[1419] and they get 50 grand together for a reward for this bank robbers capture.

[1420] No one comes forward.

[1421] No one has any useful information.

[1422] By the end of 1995, the FBI has enough incidences that they start tracking patterns in the bank robber's behavior.

[1423] They notice the timing is based around how much money is pulled in from previous heist.

[1424] So they basically are like, okay, this guy, if he steals X amount, he's going to come back because because he needs to live on 20 grand a month.

[1425] Okay.

[1426] So they're like, they start being able to predict when they're going to hit banks.

[1427] That's so interesting.

[1428] Which also is how often they're doing it and not getting caught.

[1429] Oh, you guys.

[1430] Stop.

[1431] So using this logic, they take an educated guess and as to where the next robbery will be.

[1432] So on where and when the next robbery will be.

[1433] So they think it's going to happen January 25th, 1996 at the C -First Bank.

[1434] Wow.

[1435] They fucking love the C -first thing.

[1436] So they stake out the C -first.

[1437] And it turns out that the date is correct, but the bank is wrong.

[1438] They got the date right?

[1439] They got the date exactly right.

[1440] That's crazy.

[1441] But the bank that the guys actually rob is the first interstate bank that's two miles away from that C -first bank.

[1442] So before the FBI can get over there, the guys get away from the first interstate bank with $141 ,000.

[1443] Oh, almost $142 ,000.

[1444] So this lasts the guy until May of that year.

[1445] So this is in January.

[1446] So they go till May. And then they decide to hit the Madison Park branch of the first interstate bank.

[1447] And from that one, they get almost $150 ,000.

[1448] What the crap?

[1449] It's just working.

[1450] This is like it's a plan that's going well.

[1451] So then this is around this time, Scott finds out there's this $50 ,000 reward.

[1452] for information about him and he decides no he takes this information and does in classic scott fashion he decides well then we should rob five banks in one day why because that's where his logic takes him because he's an adventurer oh god he's just showing off at this point he's he's he's high on adrenaline yeah he's he can't get a big enough fix yeah so uh they hear the police have told every bank in the Seattle area to put electronic tracers on stolen money or like on the money.

[1453] Yeah, yeah.

[1454] So they decide that with that piece of information, they're just going to hit one bank.

[1455] Okay.

[1456] So at 541, Wednesday, November 27th, 1996, Scott and Mark, with wearing their disguises, walk into a brand new bank they've never hit before.

[1457] It's the C -first bank in nearby Lake City.

[1458] Steve's outside keeping watch.

[1459] What the boys don't know as they walk in, is that the bank teller working there that day knew all about the Hollywood bandit.

[1460] It was all read up.

[1461] He knew exactly.

[1462] He was a full on fucking murder renal.

[1463] And the second, those two walked in, he hits the silent alarm.

[1464] Just like, you know, ankle in the doorway.

[1465] So, police are in other neighborhoods.

[1466] They're not anticipating that the Lake City Bank is the one they're going to hit.

[1467] So they race over toward the bank they're actually, this bank they're at.

[1468] but the robbers get it done less than four minutes.

[1469] Wow.

[1470] And get out.

[1471] I wouldn't want to press the button, panic button, because then you're in a hostage situation.

[1472] Like, I'd rather than get away and then you press the button.

[1473] Do you know what I mean?

[1474] Yes, that's smart except for that I think this guy is just like, let's catch them.

[1475] Yeah.

[1476] Maybe because there wasn't maybe.

[1477] Maybe he'd never hurt anyone so he didn't think that they were going to do anything.

[1478] Yeah.

[1479] Like it wasn't a gut, everybody on the floor thing.

[1480] at all that they did.

[1481] They were just kind of like They were gentle robbers.

[1482] They were more into the theatrics and the makeup is what it felt like to me. But I just love the idea that the guy sees what if it was just a weird looking person and they get up to the window.

[1483] Never mind, never mind.

[1484] Oh man, this nose.

[1485] You've got to see it.

[1486] Sorry.

[1487] It's just a strangely shaped nose and a lot of eyeliner.

[1488] But once they leave, a customer defies their order.

[1489] So apparently they did say like everybody, they must have made people get on the ground or whatever, but is like don't nobody follow us out yeah so I'm immediately like I'm coming with you but apparently it's just like yeah you wave a gun around and go everybody stay where you are they'll do it sure but this one bank customer did not do it and immediately got up walked outside and saw the car they drove away in you crazy kid you you you super rebel stay on the ground um but that person sees them get into a blue Dodge caravan immediately calls the cops tells them gives them the vehicle description and the direction that they are going.

[1490] So.

[1491] No cell phones.

[1492] This is all without cell phones, everyone.

[1493] That's right.

[1494] That's what, 96.

[1495] You have cell phones.

[1496] Yeah, no. So the tree house trio, I like to call them, they ditch that caravan, the blue caravan, and they immediately steal a white Chevy Astrovan.

[1497] Sure.

[1498] That's inconspicuous.

[1499] Right?

[1500] All those cars that you literally don't see when they're driving down the freeway.

[1501] Right.

[1502] They're just background cars.

[1503] Yeah.

[1504] So, but the problem is now, it's nighttime, it's dark.

[1505] it's raining and they're caught in holiday rush hour traffic what so they're just sitting you don't think of bank robbers is having to deal with shit like like fucking holiday like trying to merge yeah let us merge and then they were just trying to get away can we be in the carpool line and on top of that um their scott's driving and mark and steve are using their flashlights to to look through the money to see if there's electronic tracers in the money and a cop behind them sees guys using flashlights inside a van and immediately start to tail them and watch them the phrase used here is it's unclear who fired first I would bet a lot of my personal fortune that the cops fired first you gotta think but the guys quickly find themselves being shot out by police Stephen and Mark are each shot in the arm and they're like basically rendered immobile Scott pulls off on the side street to try to fire a shotgun back at the cops because he's driving yet please don't do that the gun jams so he then has to drive off again which is a very like unsick like action sequence in this movie you try to pull over you try to shoot I'm starting that last one again and then he guns it in this an astro van so he goes from five to seven miles an hour down this alley the cops pursue the van They fire at it.

[1506] And Mark, who still injured shot in the arm, fires back.

[1507] Eventually, Scott veers off the road and crashes into the side of a house.

[1508] So the police swarm the van.

[1509] They get inside.

[1510] They find Mark and Steve bleeding over just about a million dollars.

[1511] Oh, my God.

[1512] That's how much they got or they had in the car?

[1513] That's how much was in the car.

[1514] Whoa.

[1515] I don't know if they brought all their winnings to every robbery.

[1516] It doesn't make a lot of sense.

[1517] No. So it must have been what they got.

[1518] But Scott, the driver and the makeup artist, has run.

[1519] Okay.

[1520] So he's on foot and nowhere to be found.

[1521] So the police section off a six block radius in search of the Hollywood bandit.

[1522] And they continued this search into Thanksgiving Day because remember it was Thanksgiving Eve.

[1523] So a woman who lived within that six block radius named Wilma Walker.

[1524] Wilma.

[1525] Wilma sees the report of the fugitive that's in her neighborhood on the news.

[1526] news, so she asked her son Ronald to go check the family camper in the backyard just for peace of mind.

[1527] Oh, no. And when Ronald checks the camper out, he sees there's a man inside.

[1528] So he calls the cops.

[1529] Police arrive on the scene.

[1530] They knock on the camper door.

[1531] They announce themselves.

[1532] No one responds.

[1533] They throw a canister of pepper spray inside.

[1534] Nothing happens.

[1535] At this point, they think no one's in there.

[1536] So they're like, there's nothing going on.

[1537] The Walker families like we need you to make sure by putting your eyes on the inside open the door do it so sergeant howard monta uses his flashlight to look inside the camper and as he does a gunshot goes on so at first sergeant monta thinks he's been shot and then when he realizes there he's okay other two other officers on the scene open fire on the camper and then backup arrives they wait for four hours so to see if anyone's going to come out.

[1538] Oh, my God.

[1539] And when there's no movement, they fill the camper with tear gas to be safe.

[1540] And they finally enter the camper with gas masks on.

[1541] And inside, they find the body of the Hollywood bandit, soon to be identified as 41 -year -old Scott Scurlock, with one self -inflicted bullet wound in his head.

[1542] No way.

[1543] So he killed himself because he was surrounded.

[1544] So that one shot that they first heard was him.

[1545] shooting himself.

[1546] Wow.

[1547] So in total, Scott committed 18 robberies and he stole approximately with different team members $2 .3 million, making him one of the most prolific bank robbers in U .S. history.

[1548] Wow.

[1549] After receiving medical treatment for their gunshot wounds, both Mark Biggins and Steve Myers are sentenced to 21 years in prison each.

[1550] Wow.

[1551] Steve's released early in 2013.

[1552] Mark's released in 2015 after serving his full term and that is the cinematic tale of the Hollywood bandit Scott Sirlock Wow!

[1553] That was awesome.

[1554] Isn't that the most nuts?

[1555] Twist, turns, all of these things.

[1556] Masks, fireplaces.

[1557] They're everywhere.

[1558] Three houses even.

[1559] When I got to that part in this story because I was like this is a little bit off, this is not a classic whatever and then I was just like, oh we've hit we've hit pay dirt here.

[1560] Oh my goodness.

[1561] With that tree, the tree house made it for me. And that man's 41 years, he lived a million lives.

[1562] He did it and he did it and he did it.

[1563] Yeah.

[1564] He was, he was addicted to the meth of life.

[1565] Wow, that was incredible.

[1566] Oh, thank you.

[1567] Good job.

[1568] Thank you so much.

[1569] What, do you have a fucking hooray?

[1570] Is it time?

[1571] Yeah, let's do it.

[1572] Well, yeah.

[1573] Let's do it.

[1574] Okay, you want to go first?

[1575] Do you want me to?

[1576] Okay.

[1577] Did I tell you all, did I tell everyone publicly already that I'm up to my, now I'm up to my therapy days.

[1578] Yeah, I don't think you talked about it on here.

[1579] Okay.

[1580] So I decided since I have the time and the money, yeah, I get to go to therapy three times a week.

[1581] That's incredible, Karen.

[1582] And I have to say this.

[1583] Now, this is it, I'm a narcissist.

[1584] I could fucking sit in front of anyone and talk about myself clearly, obviously.

[1585] Yeah.

[1586] Just look at my podcasting history but it is so helpful because in especially when things come up lately like we were talking about trust issues and stuff when things come up and they really affect me my life coping strategies usually you're not supposed to be feeling these feelings so shut it down yeah and shut it down shame over them yeah and truly feeling um yeah like you're not like I because I have this strong emotion say jealousy yeah or um or just just straight up anger or whatever that that makes me weak and lame and irresponsible like you're a dog and you're whacking it on the head with a newspaper where it's like that doesn't do anything no and it and that dog gets to be here yes she got us here look at that fucking dog that dog never did anything wait a second it's a person it's not a dog um so that basically you know this morning it was just like that thing where I get to continue this conversation so it's not the week later where because I also do this thing in therapy where I go this isn't worth talking about I shouldn't be discussing this this is self -indulgent there's so much judging 15 minutes a week yes it's like not enough time to like get into the deep shit no and it and it takes this kind of like for me anyway because there's already this gauntlet to run of shame and weird don't don't do this and all these weird rules I make up.

[1587] It's like she's just now catching on of like, hold on, why are you doing that?

[1588] Hold on just yesterday you said this.

[1589] Whereas when I go once a week, no one can track those conversations.

[1590] So she'll be like, I don't know.

[1591] I remember.

[1592] Like she's good at doing that.

[1593] But now it's this very concentrated thing.

[1594] And it's, I can't tell you how much it's helping me in this realization of I, that actually I'm fine.

[1595] Yeah.

[1596] That actually, when we work through all this stuff, and if I just, allow myself to be a human being and like I get to I get to be mad I get to be angry I get to be jealous whatever and that all those things are just indicators that something needs to be tended to yeah there's you don't like you're saying you don't beat the dog for just being there you go oh the dog's here to tell me something yeah and that is actually then you can then like you can actually start to move stuff around and deal with stuff and and figure out how you actually feel because it's almost like I have the incident that incites a feeling and I don't actually know how I feel because I panic and just get mad or panic and just have this one reaction where it's like no no it's like calm down and actually own the real feeling and stop judging it I'm so bad at that too it's fucking hard because it's all it's the vulnerability thing yeah totally and feeling weak and everything it just feels gross yes you feel like I just punish this out of me or just like berate this out of me so that I don't do it anymore because it's not right and it's like yeah it fucking is it's human feeling it's being a human being amazing congratulations I mean she's doing all the work but I certainly I'm showing up 10 minutes late every time I certainly am doing that well mine was going to be it was between afternoon baths which I highly recommend a hit I have this thing 10 years ago I quit my day dust job to, like, try this whole world of not having a desk job.

[1597] Yeah.

[1598] And I still, to this day, like, revel in the 3 p .m. nap and, like, what I would have been doing 10 years ago at my desk job, I'm not over it yet.

[1599] Yes.

[1600] So, yesterday, I was freezing my fucking ass off and I couldn't get warm.

[1601] And so I took a bath at, like, 3 p .m. and it was heaven.

[1602] Heaven.

[1603] It was, like, if you can, I just can't get over.

[1604] Like, if you can do stuff like that, do it.

[1605] treat yourself, like take a nap, take a bath, like do those things, watch TV in the middle of the day.

[1606] Like, if you can do that, great.

[1607] Yeah.

[1608] That's it.

[1609] That's my, that's my, that's my, what's it called that everyone's obsessed with now?

[1610] Self care?

[1611] Yes.

[1612] The big trend that's going around.

[1613] What's that hashtag everyone loves?

[1614] But, but I think we talked about this before.

[1615] Baths are good for you.

[1616] I mean, it's actually.

[1617] Those Eps and Salt Baths, man. man it actually does something very positive for your body yeah and it kind of points out where you're like like totally holding on to some stuff I love it that's mine then that's good yeah that's great hashtag self -care hashtag hashtag privilege hashtag bathtub time yeah there's so many things hashtag hashtag you know seven days of therapy therapy 24 -7 that's the goal hashtag blessed hashtag math thank you guys for listening we we don't tell you this enough that we are so grateful to the fucking incredible listeners that we have of this show and I don't think there's any podcast out there who has such awesome people who listen and we're just so lucky we've been going through some letters that you guys I was just going to say yeah and they're just so beautiful I started crying on the couch today reading one we same yeah that's so funny I was going to say the exact same thing that I we had we've been reading these letters that we take stuff that you give us like that we get at live shows or that we get whatever and just pull letters and shove them into bags going we know we're going to read this at some point but we don't always do it like on the road we don't always have time to go through everything and I've been reading some that like the amount of time I spend focusing on the problems that we have to get solved that's all I do yeah and that's all and I'm I have training of doing it of you have to anticipate the thing that's going to happen so we're ready totally and it is it's a difficult way to live and we if we're going to do that we also should make sure we spend equal amount of time reading things where people say very nice things to us so it's not always the problems and the bad and the ticking time bombs that are waiting for us everywhere we're still there but but we have friends on the other side who are waiting for us It's very, like, it's, it put my feet on the ground in a very meaningful way to read a couple letters where people would just say, like, here's specifically what you did when I needed it.

[1618] Right.

[1619] Because, right, here's what I was going through.

[1620] Yeah.

[1621] It's really beautiful.

[1622] It's quite nice.

[1623] Thank you, guys.

[1624] We, we love you guys.

[1625] You're our best friend.

[1626] I don't know.

[1627] This is the most vulnerable episode of MFM.

[1628] That's right.

[1629] We love you, stay sexy.

[1630] And don't get murdered.

[1631] Goodbye.

[1632] Elvis, do you want a cookie?