277 - Live at the Fox Theatre in Detroit, MI (2019)

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] We have an announcement to make.

[3] We are so excited to tell you, we're going to take a break for the summer.

[4] We're going to go on a small vacation.

[5] After five years.

[6] Yes.

[7] An actual vacation.

[8] We appreciate your support in advance.

[9] It is much needed.

[10] We've been podcasting through a pandemic and we're done doing that for a little while.

[11] So we're going to take a summer vacation.

[12] Yeah.

[13] You guys have been actually telling us to do this through thick and thin.

[14] You guys have been like to take a break.

[15] So we hope you have a great summer.

[16] We're going to take a little time to ourselves.

[17] And we will see you back here pretty soon.

[18] And until that time, stay sexy.

[19] And don't get murdered.

[20] Goodbye.

[21] What's up, Detroit?

[22] Shit, did everybody come?

[23] That's crazy.

[24] Mitten murderinos Wow My God This is the first place Anyone ever gave us Red Flag Yes The original Red Flag So smart Because now we demand them And if we don't get them We're real mean about it There was a lady that we met in the meet and greet And she came through with one that was like Really nice felt or something Enhanced it and I fucking grabbed it out of her hand.

[25] And she was like, I'm not giving that to you.

[26] I just brought it.

[27] I made her give it to me. I made her give it to me. I forced her into it.

[28] Oh, this is the most beautiful theater we've ever done.

[29] Historic, some might say historic.

[30] Yeah.

[31] You know you're up for a treat when you walk backstage and there's just a giant photo of Eliza Manelli back there.

[32] Oh, shit.

[33] Yeah.

[34] It's on.

[35] Scrappening.

[36] That's why we have to get that song and dance done.

[37] Damn it.

[38] We keep talking about it, but really.

[39] Right now there should be a spotlight.

[40] We get like this.

[41] We tear our dumb dresses off.

[42] Just wearing weird kickpants.

[43] What if we tear our dresses off and you're wearing this dress under that?

[44] And I'm wearing this dress under that.

[45] Yes.

[46] And it just keeps going on and on for three hours.

[47] We should not be working out these ideas in front of the audience.

[48] Shit, they will not be surprised.

[49] Take a note of those.

[50] Yeah, please cut that out.

[51] Steven, this is Steven's flag.

[52] Because it's green like a dinosaur.

[53] Oh, my God, there's fucking ushers and actual suits.

[54] Or did they just come dress like that?

[55] He might be an audience member, I don't know.

[56] Then he pulls his suit off and he has half my dress and half your dress on.

[57] Sorry, I forgot.

[58] Spread in the news.

[59] High five.

[60] Yes.

[61] Interactive theater.

[62] Okay, we'll put this in Stevens file.

[63] That we forget backstage.

[64] No, he's not here tonight, though.

[65] Sorry, you guys.

[66] We know.

[67] He's been texting us.

[68] We know.

[69] He's been texting us today, though, from Niagara Falls.

[70] He found.

[71] Yeah, there's a, there's a, Margaritaville in Niagara Falls that Stephen found.

[72] I'm not kidding.

[73] It was like 11 .30 this morning when he was like, guys, there's a Margaritaville.

[74] And then I think he got drunk and started texting us because it was like, did you have puteen here?

[75] And you're like, you're in Canada, Stephen.

[76] Of course they have a foodie.

[77] It's not in Canada.

[78] What?

[79] Yes, it is.

[80] Niagara Falls.

[81] One side of it is.

[82] It's both.

[83] Oh, fucking thank God.

[84] I was like, they're about to kill me. They're about to kill me live on stage.

[85] Did you hear me?

[86] I'm going to have to jump on that guy's back and get out of your emergency exit style.

[87] I said Stephen was like, they should, no, Stephen said I'm going to get really drunk and then go over the falls in a barrel.

[88] And I said, if that Margaritaville doesn't serve their drinks and barrels, they're doing something wrong.

[89] So wouldn't you drink so many more?

[90] Yes.

[91] if it's in anything cute a little barrel with like a lady in it come on you love that and if you swallow the lady it's good luck yeah and you start to hallucinate and shit because the ladies made of acid that's right and then and then he sent us a photo of him in front of Niagara Falls and I said oh I hope you put a tarp on your mustache which I thought was hilarious but neither of them reacted to it now don't you hate that at that point I was like I don't feel like talking to Stephen anymore.

[92] And I don't have to.

[93] I pay him.

[94] Just kidding.

[95] I actually really have to every day.

[96] Oh, this is my favorite murder of the podcast.

[97] Thank you.

[98] This is Georgia Hard Stark.

[99] May I recognize her?

[100] That's Eminem, everybody.

[101] Eminem is here.

[102] Marshall Mathers just arrived front row.

[103] He pulls off his dress and what's underneath it.

[104] Kim Basinger.

[105] Yeah.

[106] Oh, right.

[107] I get it because, okay.

[108] His drug -addled mother from the film eight mile.

[109] I got it.

[110] Keep up.

[111] It was a deep cut.

[112] But I'm there with you.

[113] 100%.

[114] Oh, this, you might know this already, but this, we have an official announcement for the podcast.

[115] Going forward, SSDGM now stands for.

[116] Did you hear?

[117] It's a major change.

[118] It's a major change.

[119] You got to get with it.

[120] Get hip to God.

[121] High five the Lord.

[122] This is one of the best stories we've ever heard.

[123] A woman is walking.

[124] I can't remember.

[125] I want to say the airport, but that's where we were.

[126] So that's where my brain works.

[127] They were all right next to me when it happened.

[128] She sees a woman with an SSDGM shirt.

[129] So she runs up and goes, are you a murderino?

[130] As you're supposed to do.

[131] You just scream it.

[132] As you all well know.

[133] And the woman is like, I don't know.

[134] She said, the post said, she looked at me like I had 45 heads.

[135] And then the woman tells her, I don't know what you're talking about.

[136] My daughter said that this stood for, stay saved, do God's missions.

[137] Best daughter ever.

[138] Who is that girl?

[139] Who is she?

[140] She's our new best.

[141] friend.

[142] We must find her.

[143] She's replacing Steven.

[144] She's a super genius.

[145] Oh my god.

[146] Lying to your mother is my favorite party trick.

[147] It's so good.

[148] There's something in that too where it's like, um, mom, I need to borrow the car.

[149] Yeah.

[150] You said you wanted to borrow one of my shirts.

[151] I can't, that part doesn't work yet, but I'm going to make it work.

[152] Yeah.

[153] And then, but the justification is she had to use Christ to trick her mother into wearing one of our shirts.

[154] It's a good little, like, do you ever do things like when you were a kid that they'll never know about?

[155] And it's just like I'll fuck you to your parents.

[156] Like I was setting the table once and I like I think I licked my mom's fork and then put it on your place.

[157] Well now you...

[158] Yeah, there you go.

[159] A burst of power.

[160] Just for you.

[161] You take that power if you can.

[162] That's right.

[163] I drove the car when I was 12.

[164] That's what I did.

[165] My parents went away for the weekend, and my sister started crying.

[166] She's like, you can't do it.

[167] And I'm like, I'm going to do it.

[168] Oh, my God.

[169] And I drove the Volvo, like, half a block, and only then realized, oh, I have to figure out how to turn it around, get it back to the house.

[170] I have that dream all the time where I can't steer a car.

[171] It's just exactly like that.

[172] Yeah, I lived it.

[173] It's so intense in real life.

[174] Tell us about your outfit.

[175] Oh.

[176] If you feel like it.

[177] Oh, this.

[178] This old thing sponsored by Land's End.

[179] I bought this dress.

[180] Well, first I'll tell you this.

[181] I thought I'd be responsible.

[182] And finally go replace the Spanx tights I've been wearing for what seems like 10 years.

[183] My tour tights, I like to call them.

[184] Just wash them and throw them in the drawer.

[185] Keep on pulling them out.

[186] At least you wash them, though.

[187] Well, that's a key element.

[188] But I finally was like, I need to get new ones.

[189] And I'll get a new body shaper while in there.

[190] I'll just go and, like, clean out the Spanx aisle.

[191] That's what I get to.

[192] That's my power.

[193] And what I ended up doing is not kind of not paying attention.

[194] I think I was texting you at the time and doing other stuff, not really focusing.

[195] And what I ended up doing was getting these, what do they call?

[196] They look like the shorts that those weird bicyclists wear on the weekend.

[197] That's what I have under this dress.

[198] They go like from here to here, but then they're also kind of rolling down, but they've pushed a lot of my back fat up.

[199] So I have back cleavage right now.

[200] It feels wit -woo great.

[201] Thank you.

[202] But the one thing that's saving me is, of course, this dress has pockets.

[203] Yeah.

[204] I tried to give you a flag to put in your...

[205] I'm just so sorry.

[206] Okay, keep going.

[207] Thanks.

[208] I just let my back cleavage.

[209] Thank you.

[210] The thing to do when you're really self -conscious about something backstage and then you get freaked out about it is to directly point it out in front of an entire fucking...

[211] I wanted to say it before we said what's up Detroit, but Georgia was like, can you just hold on that for four minutes?

[212] Let me...

[213] Okay, we're going to start with back cleavage.

[214] can we go into that my boobs aren't big enough for this vintage dress and some like really great like some vintage woman old woman I don't know woman from the past really filled this thing out she's dead she's dead for sure okay but here it is a little about like a clown like a circus tent I love it I know I love it too I don't know why it reminds me of Mary Tyler Moore it's really good yes oh I think you need to feature though the most important thing you've brought here to Detroit.

[215] Oh, my peeling sunburn?

[216] Yes.

[217] Thank you.

[218] It's in the peeling phase.

[219] The hotel, the lotion that they have at the hotel, my legs laughed at it and kicked it out of the room.

[220] Oh, this isn't going to do anything.

[221] Your sunburn bullied the lotion?

[222] Wow.

[223] Yeah, it's pretty, tell them what else about our hotel?

[224] Oh, this is real.

[225] Actually, and this is how I found that, Because I was like, what if I went to the gym?

[226] Oh.

[227] What if I did that?

[228] And I was like, you can't.

[229] I could.

[230] No one knows me here.

[231] I can put my hair in a top knot and go to the fucking gym like one of those people.

[232] So I was like entertaining that idea.

[233] So I took out the little book and I'm going through the amenities.

[234] I'm not finding a gym.

[235] And at one point I think they don't have when I'm like, that's so fucking badass Detroit.

[236] just to not offer a gym in any ways.

[237] Take a walk around the block.

[238] Live your fucking life.

[239] As I'm going through page by page, I find that this particular hotel offers a podcast studio.

[240] We've hit peak hipster.

[241] What the fuck?

[242] Then I'm like, I'm going to call down to the front desk and be like, Do you have to get a room to use the podcast studio?

[243] Or could I roll in from the other side of town and just start my vogue and dinosaur podcast if I wanted to?

[244] Like, what are the rules and regulations?

[245] How big is it?

[246] Is it just a Zoom with a mic in the corner of, like, where the printer is?

[247] Like, what?

[248] Some guys on his computer, on a hotel computer while you're trying to podcast.

[249] Yes, sir.

[250] He's like, this is the business center.

[251] Sorry.

[252] It's a podcast studio Anyway, Temptation Island This season is insane Should we sit down?

[253] Do you want to?

[254] Sure.

[255] Might as well.

[256] This is a nice chair.

[257] All right.

[258] Ooh, it's cushy.

[259] Yeah.

[260] I might take this back to the podcast studio tonight.

[261] What do you think they have there to sit on?

[262] Oh, bean bags.

[263] You know it's being loud, crunchy bean bags.

[264] Beanbags.

[265] Great for podcasting.

[266] this spank is really doing something here I can feel it I can feel it oh do you want to talk do we still do that yeah um hey what's up balcony we respect you shit glad I said that thank you thanks for being here and thanks for climbing all those stairs you're good people um Um, there's some of you in here tonight who have brought others.

[267] We'll just call them others against their will.

[268] I think one of those people is probably Vince's sister's husband.

[269] Yeah.

[270] I can imagine.

[271] Your brother -in -law?

[272] Yes.

[273] I'll do the family math on that one.

[274] Yeah, there are people in this room, as many of us know, who have no idea what's going on right now.

[275] They're just like, well, there's two.

[276] girls with flags who are proud of pockets.

[277] We don't know.

[278] We're not sure.

[279] They're texting other people.

[280] What the fuck?

[281] How much money did they pay for this?

[282] Um, and, you know, when you read it in the newspaper, we've had some misunderstandings in the past, by the way.

[283] Some of our favorites are people thinking it's a murder mystery play.

[284] It's not, no, it isn't.

[285] Um, the two old ladies, uh, or I don't know, middle -aged, I'm not sure what their age was.

[286] Some women in Texas who thought that it was the sequel to the Phantom of the Opera.

[287] It, it kind of is.

[288] No, it is.

[289] Yeah.

[290] You're going to find out what happens tonight.

[291] They have a baby and they move to the suburbs.

[292] He never takes that mask off.

[293] What if he takes the mask off and underneath, no, I won't do that anymore.

[294] He takes the mask off and both of our dresses are underneath it.

[295] So anyway, it's a true crime comedy podcast.

[296] And for people who don't listen to the podcast and don't know us or know our personalities, some people get very offended by that concept because murder, there's one of them.

[297] Murder is the worst thing that can happen to a human being or a human being's family, and comedy doesn't seem to have any place in that.

[298] But if you listen to the podcast, you know, that those things actually run parallel to each other because that's the way George and I interact with each other but we also love to talk about this horror show of our world in the area of true crime.

[299] So essentially all I'm trying to say is if you find that concept offensive, you can get the fuck out right now.

[300] Give us a chance, brother -in -law.

[301] Give us a chance.

[302] Walk out in 20 minutes.

[303] Pretend you're going to get a beer.

[304] Go hang out with Vince backstage.

[305] I respect.

[306] that if you Irish could buy us during this show.

[307] I would love it.

[308] That's my whole jam.

[309] Yeah.

[310] Leaving places.

[311] Inappropriately.

[312] Whoa.

[313] Okay.

[314] Do you go first or do I go for?

[315] I believe it's me. I think so too.

[316] But we just have to get these flags just right.

[317] Yeah.

[318] Look at this.

[319] I know.

[320] It's fancy.

[321] It's like a race car control.

[322] That we had that shipped in from the 80s.

[323] Okay.

[324] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[325] Absolutely.

[326] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[327] Exactly.

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[337] Connect with customers in line and online.

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[339] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[340] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

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[342] level today.

[343] That's shopify .com slash murder.

[344] Goodbye.

[345] The story I'm going to tell everybody tonight happened a long, long, long, long time ago.

[346] It's the murder in the Rattle Run Methodist Church.

[347] What did you guys do?

[348] Never heard of it.

[349] Not one fucking person has heard of it.

[350] And there's a bunch of pissed off Methodists in here right now.

[351] They're just like, uh -uh, uh -uh.

[352] I mean, when are they not, though?

[353] Let's be honest.

[354] I don't know a single Methodist Oh, you've got to meet Methodists.

[355] They're hilarious.

[356] Is it down here?

[357] All right.

[358] Okay.

[359] So this is where we're talking about.

[360] Is this a...

[361] Where is it on the...

[362] I don't know.

[363] I don't do the mitten thing.

[364] It's none of my business.

[365] I'm from California.

[366] It looks like this.

[367] Pontiac's over here somewhere.

[368] All right.

[369] Anyhow.

[370] The city...

[371] The city Rattle Run.

[372] Rattle Run?

[373] Yeah.

[374] Okay.

[375] Yeah?

[376] It doesn't exist anymore.

[377] Okay, great.

[378] It was really just a very tiny town.

[379] Okay.

[380] But there is an unincorporated community in the western part of St. Clair Township called Rattle Run.

[381] All 6 ,423 citizens of St. Clair are here tonight.

[382] Let's hear.

[383] For the township of St. Clair.

[384] I actually looked on St. Clair's website.

[385] Oh, they have a website?

[386] They sure do.

[387] It's great.

[388] All the pictures are from a Christmas party they had at some point.

[389] Oh, my God.

[390] And then there was a picture of their Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus, and that, it looked so much like the real Santa Claus that I started going, that would be amazing if the real Santa Claus just lived in Michigan.

[391] No one would ever catch him.

[392] He looks like everybody else.

[393] It's the last place.

[394] He looks like everybody.

[395] else in that room where they took the picture is amazing.

[396] I was just like, this is, like, I can't figure out if this is a mystery comedy movie I'm going to write or a historical biopic.

[397] Either way, get ready.

[398] Get ready.

[399] What am I talking about?

[400] I hate going first.

[401] Okay.

[402] You really got to kick it open.

[403] Rattle Run is listed in Alan Naldrette's book, Lost Towns of Eastern Michigan.

[404] There's a whole fucking book.

[405] Jesus guys.

[406] Yeah.

[407] Lose your towns all the time.

[408] So many towns lost in this state.

[409] It's tragic.

[410] When it's like, when it's here, it's like but I don't know if it's up here or it's here.

[411] It just kind of...

[412] It floats.

[413] Yeah.

[414] It floats away.

[415] It's a pity.

[416] To the UP.

[417] Did anyone carpool here from the UP tonight?

[418] Thank you.

[419] Thank you.

[420] Did anyone bring us any venison from the UP?

[421] I like to do local jokes.

[422] Local jokes get you local work.

[423] That's the old saying in stand -up comedy.

[424] Thank you.

[425] Heading up to the UP after this to do a week at some casino.

[426] Okay.

[427] Okay.

[428] I'm really starting now, I swear to God.

[429] I wish you wouldn't.

[430] Keep going.

[431] Rattled Run was given their first post office, or their only post office in 1876.

[432] it closed in 1907.

[433] Wait, it opened in 1976?

[434] No, it sure didn't.

[435] And closed in 1906.

[436] Girl, 1876.

[437] Got it.

[438] Did I say 19?

[439] Probably not.

[440] Okay.

[441] I heard it, though.

[442] You heard it.

[443] That's right.

[444] So they couldn't handle a post office.

[445] Something to take into consideration, as I tell you this story.

[446] Two years later, after the post office was officially taken away from them by the government, What did stay open was the Rattle Run Methodist Church.

[447] Oh, looks like a church.

[448] Looks like Amniville Horror.

[449] The church.

[450] The church.

[451] This church was presided over by the right reverend John H. Carmichael.

[452] Let's see if I did this in the right order.

[453] There he is.

[454] Oh, is he on a dollar bill?

[455] Oh, God, is I each...

[456] It looks like a...

[457] it's a playing card.

[458] You know how they have, the Methodists like to have playing cards of all their reverence.

[459] Seeking...

[460] Of all your favorite reverends around?

[461] Seeking gamble with them.

[462] Eastern Michigan.

[463] They're great for gambling.

[464] It's called Lost Cities of Eastern Michigan card game.

[465] That was a bad improvisation.

[466] All right.

[467] The Reverend Carmichael moved from Nebraska to St. Clair County in 1899, and after he moves there, he does so well in the community that 10 years later, by 1906, he's the pastor at three nearby Methodist churches.

[468] He allowed to do that?

[469] In glorious bastard style.

[470] Three Methodist churches.

[471] I guess so.

[472] It was like his car dealership, but God.

[473] The churches were in Rattle Run, Adair, and China.

[474] Did someone just stab that girl on the leg?

[475] She's the China's proudest citizen biggest communist, okay the Reverend John Carmichael lives in Adair with his wife and their three children A dare?

[476] Who cares?

[477] There she is.

[478] Mrs. John H. Carmichael doesn't have a first name.

[479] That's how they did it back then.

[480] It's actually John.

[481] is her first name.

[482] For real.

[483] John, John.

[484] They called her Johnny and then him.

[485] Reverend.

[486] The Rev. Reverend Run.

[487] Okay.

[488] So, let's get down to this.

[489] On the morning of January 5th, 1909, the 56 -year -old Reverend Carmichael tells his wife, John, that he has to go down to the church in Rattle Run to arrange some revival services.

[490] So he's got, you know, buckets of water.

[491] I don't know.

[492] Reviving people.

[493] He's waterboarding people at the church.

[494] Why?

[495] That seems against God.

[496] She watches her husband ride away from their home in his horse and buggy, and she has no idea that she will never see him again.

[497] And perhaps even more frightening.

[498] She has idea that she does not have a first name.

[499] Okay.

[500] Cut to a couple hours later, a guy named Myron Brown is waiting in the cold outside.

[501] So that church that you saw is actually sitting at a crossroads in the creepiest way possible.

[502] It's in the corner of this plot of land, and then Rattle Run Road is here, and then some other road I can't remember the name of is over here.

[503] Sure.

[504] And there's a guy standing there waiting to meet the devil.

[505] I would imagine, which is what you do to crossroads.

[506] He's waiting and waiting, but it's freezing cold, again, it's January, so he decides he's going to go into the church and warm up while he waits.

[507] And as he approaches the church, he sees that both church doors are just kind of flapping open, and he's like, that's weird.

[508] That's creepy.

[509] And feels creepy.

[510] Yeah.

[511] Remember the church picture.

[512] Oh, I should say this.

[513] Billy Jensen, our friend Billy Jensen is the person who suggested this murder.

[514] Oh, cool.

[515] Yeah.

[516] But I got most of the really good information on a website called Kevin McQueen Stories, K -E -V -E -N -McQueen Stories.

[517] This person wrote out this story and I was like, it's going to be so hard not to steal every line for it.

[518] It's so well written.

[519] And the whole website, Kevin McQueen Stories, is like weird, old historical creepy shit.

[520] So definitely go there and check it out.

[521] Okay.

[522] So, this man, Myron Brown, is waiting at the crossroads to try to play the guitar better vis -a -vis the devil.

[523] And so he goes inside.

[524] I said that part of right.

[525] Oh, other versions of this story say that it's the church caretaker who walked up on the church and found it.

[526] I like that one better.

[527] What if we say Myron Brown was the caretaker?

[528] We just combine every story, like some websites do.

[529] Okay.

[530] Either way, we'll never know.

[531] Like Mrs. Carmichael's first name, we'll never know what really happened.

[532] Okay.

[533] So he goes inside and he sees that most of the church is covered in blood.

[534] Oh, no. Yes.

[535] Wait, is it always like that?

[536] No, no, no. I've never been in a Methodist church before.

[537] Oh, yeah.

[538] I should have explained this to you.

[539] These aren't blood sacrifice people at all.

[540] Fuck, that's creepy as shit.

[541] Yeah.

[542] So it's splattered everywhere.

[543] There's a bloody trail of footsteps up the aisle.

[544] Don't follow them.

[545] Don't go up there.

[546] Toward the pulpit.

[547] The church organ had been splintered from what looked like repeated blows from an axe.

[548] There were also pools of blood in the back behind all the pews.

[549] And there were wood burning stoves in the back of the church.

[550] church, and then there was one to the house left of the pulpit in the front of the church.

[551] And if you're a theater person, you know what I'm talking about.

[552] And there's a terrible smell.

[553] Yeah, I bet.

[554] Right?

[555] Both wood burning stoves are lit.

[556] Oh, no. And burning.

[557] I know what's going to happen.

[558] Poor Myron.

[559] He's standing there like, what?

[560] I just wanted to learn to play the guitar.

[561] Yeah.

[562] It's all I. And then the devil walked in.

[563] and was like, what the fuck?

[564] This sucks.

[565] I would never do this.

[566] Even I think this is too much, especially for Methodists.

[567] Okay.

[568] So Myron sends for Sheriff Wagon Cell, who is in Port Huron.

[569] You guys have the best sheriffs.

[570] How did he send for him?

[571] We're not sure.

[572] It is four hours away walking.

[573] Okay.

[574] So I imagine that he flagged down a very small child and said, you have to go do it.

[575] Yeah.

[576] Stop bailing hay or whatever manual labor job you have, 8 -year -old, and go run to Port Huron and get the sheriff.

[577] Then run back and continue.

[578] And then bailing six more hours on that job.

[579] Someone's got to get cornbread on the table or whatever they used to eat in 1909.

[580] Okay.

[581] Okay.

[582] I also wrote, maybe he attached a message to a falcon's foot.

[583] Okay.

[584] What?

[585] I waste so much time when I'm supposed to be actually telling the, that's why I never know what the date is or how to pronounce fucking anything, because I'm like, what if this?

[586] Ugh.

[587] Okay.

[588] Either way the sheriff comes.

[589] Okay.

[590] At some point.

[591] That's what Sheriff Wagonsell was like.

[592] He would show up.

[593] So they begin to investigate the scene.

[594] And they follow what are very bizarre and seemingly misshapen footprints up that aisle and to that wood -burning stove.

[595] That's burning.

[596] They throw some water in on the fire.

[597] And the first thing they find is a hatchet head with no, the arm of the hatchet is burned, but the hatchet head is in there.

[598] And then they find a big old piece of human skull.

[599] Fuck.

[600] As well as.

[601] As well as.

[602] as well as part of a torso, a jawbone, some false teeth, and a stick pin.

[603] Oh, no. This is in a church, inside a church.

[604] There is another part of the torso and other parts of the body in that back wood -burning stove.

[605] Now, the sheriff's told that the right Reverend John H. Carmichael, I am calling him that.

[606] I don't know if that's what you're supposed to call him, but I think I heard it somewhere.

[607] I'm calling him the right reverend.

[608] He's nowhere to be found, and both the caretaker or Myron and the sheriff are really afraid that that's who is in these fires.

[609] Yes, right?

[610] What?

[611] It is, right?

[612] Well, okay.

[613] So, the caretaker notices that all the oil lamps in the church, they had normally been kind of low, and recently the reverend had told him, you need to fill up all these oil lamps, which he had done in the past, in the recent past, like in the last couple days.

[614] And he looks around and sees that they're once again really low.

[615] And they realize that whoever was in there took all the oil in the oil lamps, threw it on the fire so that they could actually cremate the body parts that were in each.

[616] So it was someone who knew what they were doing.

[617] They also bail out, for some reason this creeps me out the most.

[618] They bail out the well that's in the front.

[619] front of the church to see if they can find any clues.

[620] That means they drained it, right?

[621] Yeah.

[622] Can you drain a well?

[623] No, you got...

[624] You just pull that bucket up like 500 times.

[625] They got the kid when he came back from Port Huron.

[626] They were like, there's job number two.

[627] Do you want an apple for Christmas or not?

[628] They didn't find any clues in there, but there was a girl in a nightgown with long black hair.

[629] Waiting.

[630] Just waiting.

[631] They left her.

[632] they left her it was fine okay so of course murder inside of church is a huge story not to mention the added detail of this well -known and very well -respected reverend who's now missing and possibly dead it's all over the newspapers there's a $500 reward put up to find the reverend and the next day the citizens of Adair is that what you're supposed to say they don't even know someone in the front road just goes I don't know It really is just like a conversation between the two of us, isn't it?

[633] Those citizens notice that Reverend Carmichael is not the only person missing.

[634] Another local man named Gideon Browning also cannot be located.

[635] Browning is known as a carpenter, a sailor, and a roustabout.

[636] Oh, dear.

[637] Uh -huh.

[638] He's super fun.

[639] Right?

[640] Yeah.

[641] He could climb up things and he wears a very blousey shirt.

[642] the reverend had recently hired him to do some carpentry in remodeling inside the church and so now everyone's like suspect number one so when police go to talk to the Browning family they find out that from Browning's nephew that he had overheard Reverend Carmichael promise Gideon Browning another job one where he wouldn't have to do anything but quote stand around and smoke cigars and they find out from the Reverend daughter, that actually what that means is her father had written a manuscript for a book called The Devil and His Works, and he decided he was going to have Gideon Browning be his book agent.

[643] I'm not, I'm not buying it.

[644] I mean, it seems odd.

[645] Yeah.

[646] Roused about carpenter, high -powered book agent in Port Huron.

[647] Now here's the fun surprise when they go to.

[648] talk to the Reverend John H. Carmichael's wife, she tells them, or they get it out of her, it's a dirty book.

[649] It's bawdy and lusty.

[650] Oh, my God.

[651] And dirty.

[652] What is it, the perfect reverend?

[653] What was he called?

[654] The right reverend, is wrong.

[655] He is damn wrong.

[656] So they talked to Carmichael's wife.

[657] I wrote Jane Doe Carmichael, who complains that her husband and has written actually a couple what she calls trashy novels, and she told the sheriff, I saw some of his manuscripts once, a few sheets.

[658] I don't remember what they said, but I felt called on him to tell him that he should not write such things.

[659] She loved it.

[660] She fucking loved it.

[661] The old prune.

[662] Okay.

[663] Now, several witnesses come forward and tell the sheriff they saw Gideon Browning in the Reverend's Company at the train Depot the morning of the murders.

[664] So apparently, Gideon Browning boarded the train to Port Huron and then came back later that day, but he didn't take the train home to Adair.

[665] He instead got off at Hickey.

[666] Oh, you know, Hickey.

[667] Oh, you got to.

[668] And he inquired of two men which way to the Rattle Run Church while he was there, telling each of them that he had an appointment to meet someone there.

[669] I've got an appointment to meet someone.

[670] You know when you're asking directions, so you tell the people exactly what you're doing in the place that you're asking directions to?

[671] Do you know the way to the gas station?

[672] I'm going to go ahead and get some unleaded.

[673] Probably $30 worth.

[674] I'm going to want to buy Snickers.

[675] This time I'm not going to do it.

[676] People just walk away from your car.

[677] So at this point, I don't know how this actually happened chronologically, but I would put it here if it was a movie, so I'm going to now.

[678] Someone had the presence of mind to show the stick pin to Mrs. Browning.

[679] Uh -oh.

[680] And ask her if she recognized it, and she did.

[681] That was her husband's stick pin, and her husband had false teeth.

[682] It was her husband in the wood -burning stove.

[683] It was Gideon, not the right reverend.

[684] And now everyone's like, the fucking reverend did it?

[685] And then someone says, well, that would make sense, because the reverend has something wrong with his gate.

[686] like his leg, and when he walks, one of his feet turns out.

[687] So that's why the path up to the wood -burning stove, the steps looked all fucked up.

[688] So he didn't think this thing out at all.

[689] No. He didn't go get his fake wooden foot and walk it along like a cane like I would have.

[690] Okay.

[691] So suddenly instead of getting a brown and killing the rubber in the sheriff realizes, okay, I wrote that twice.

[692] The next day they find the minister's horse tied to a tree in Pine River 20 miles from the church and on the way to the Grand Trunk Tunnel Depot.

[693] Like an abandoned car but eating grass instead.

[694] So the police interview a ticketing agent at the depot and he tells them that a bearded man in a large fur coat had bought a ticket to Chicago at 5 a .m. on Wednesday morning but when they show that agent a picture of the reverend, he can't positively identify him.

[695] But now the story is out.

[696] I think, I don't know if this picture order is right.

[697] Oh, that's Gideon Browning and his wife.

[698] Okay.

[699] Roused about and his sidepiece.

[700] You can tell what a big fucking deal it was to get your picture taken back then.

[701] Oh, if I could only tell them about selfies.

[702] I think it's there.

[703] Oh, okay.

[704] Here we go.

[705] Oh, wait, don't read that.

[706] In the newspaper, they actually drew the crime scene.

[707] I love this picture so much.

[708] You probably...

[709] Dalcany, can you see this?

[710] They're like, you mean the little black lines on the white square?

[711] They basically showed the path of the footsteps going up the aisle toward the pulpit, and up atop left is where the woodboarding stove is.

[712] Obviously, this is the church.

[713] And then there's the haunted well.

[714] Okay.

[715] Um, let's see my...

[716] Ooh, that, those are the...

[717] That's a picture of the blood stains behind the pews.

[718] Uh -uh.

[719] Yes.

[720] That's fucked up.

[721] It's fucked up.

[722] Let's see what this is.

[723] Okay.

[724] Oh, that's the crossroads.

[725] That was, I was supposed to put that earlier.

[726] Got it.

[727] This is hurting my neck.

[728] Can I tell you?

[729] Can I tell you something?

[730] You know why?

[731] Because when I was in the hotel earlier, it's like a shower, and I wrapped my head in the towel, my wet hair, and the towel was so heavy, I creaked my neck out because I'm 100.

[732] So let's...

[733] We might need to start taking pills of some time.

[734] Okay, don't look at that.

[735] Okay.

[736] Sorry.

[737] Now, where the fuck is that?

[738] I missed one.

[739] Oh, wait, it's back here.

[740] Hold on.

[741] You told us not to look at it.

[742] I know.

[743] Now you get to look at it.

[744] Can we get a look at it now?

[745] Yay!

[746] So the press goes fucking back shit when they find out that the reverend is the person missing.

[747] And they're basically suggesting that it's a blood sacrifice, that all the things that we were joking about earlier, they put in the paper like, this could be it, guys.

[748] Yeah.

[749] You might want to check your neighbors.

[750] I bet it is.

[751] Dude.

[752] I mean.

[753] Horse clue.

[754] Oh, the story's out.

[755] Reports.

[756] Guys, stay with me. Reports start coming in from all over, saying the Reverend has been seen in Indiana, Chicago, and Wisconsin, but none of those were verified.

[757] So sorry, none were verified.

[758] And that's when Mrs. Carmichael reveals to the press that her husband's sister was an inmate in the West Virginia Insane Asylum.

[759] What?

[760] Now, did she tell that to the press, or was the press lurking under her window one night?

[761] Like, that doesn't seem like something anyone would share.

[762] Did she tell the cops, right?

[763] Oh, that's so she told the press.

[764] Yeah, but I wrote that.

[765] And you know that's not true, if it's from me. Okay.

[766] Basically, it's just seeding doubt.

[767] The press is seating doubt in the entire community that the reverend of three major, major Methodist churches in the area, they don't know who this guy is.

[768] Okay, so on Saturday, January 9th, a man checks into a boarding house in Carthage, Illinois.

[769] It's a woman named Miranda Hughes's boarding house.

[770] Oh, sure.

[771] So apparently if you marry a reverend, you disappear, but if you run a boarding house, they know your first and fucking last name, and it'll be in every newspaper.

[772] Just, if anyone's thinking of career change.

[773] So the man gives the name John Elder, saying that he's in town because he's planning to build a woodworking factory nearby.

[774] And on the morning of January 11th, Miranda offers to make this man breakfast he says no thank you he goes upstairs he writes one letter to the sheriff which is 10 pages long and then a letter to his wife he goes back downstairs and he tells Miranda that he's going into the woodworking area but what he does actually is go out into her shed take out a pocket knife and slit his throat fuck the problem is is, it's January, the wound isn't bad enough for him to die from immediately.

[775] So he lays there and then dies of exposure.

[776] Again, let's plan ahead.

[777] Um, so now this is the craziest thing.

[778] When they get this confession letter, it's his version of everything.

[779] Um, and it does turn out that the, uh, Reverend Carmichael did have some serious untreated mental illness.

[780] Because he believed that Gideon Browning had hypnotic control over him.

[781] What?

[782] He, in the letter, he describes how Gideon Browning kept showing up everywhere that he was and telling, like, and lording over him and making him feel small and acting proud.

[783] And it's the weirdest, like, the way he writes it out.

[784] There's one, at one point, he's out in the barn and he says that Browning showed up in the manure hole and began telling him that he had to do what he said.

[785] So in this, he says that basically Gideon Browning told him that he was going to get married, that he was separated from his wife, he wanted to get married, and he was meeting the reverend in the church.

[786] And then when they met in the church, Browning said, he started laughing and said, I'm not getting married, and I control you, I have you under my hypnosis, lift your arm and then in the letter he's saying and then I lifted my arm against my will and then put it back down and he's basically describing this man like kind of nonsensically doing all this crazy shit so one of the quotes was when he set his eyes upon me in the queerest sort of look something like the look of a snake's eyes I felt his influence tightening his grip on my mind so he's basically going through what like what is probably a psychotic break, but blaming it on Gideon Browning, who's just the carpenter who's there to fix the church, essentially.

[787] So in the letter, he also describes the attack.

[788] And he says, by this time, so he's basically after the hypnosis part, by this time I was so alarmed that I was in a cold sweat.

[789] I then leaned over to see if anyone might be on the road when he began to laugh again.

[790] And I saw that he was holding a weapon of some sort up his sleeve.

[791] How?

[792] Instantly, I made a grab for it and got the hatchet from him and asked him what he meant to do with it.

[793] And he said, I'll show you.

[794] And from his overcoat pocket, he drew out a knife in each hand.

[795] Samurai style.

[796] Oh, shit.

[797] Fuck, this is some samurai shit.

[798] This is turned into a fucking Quentin Tarantino movie all of a sudden.

[799] This is Kill the Revlin Bill Carmichael.

[800] He came at me striking with both hands while I backed across the church, down the side aisle and across the front but I did not dare turn about to open the door then I threw the hatchet and struck him and he fell just in one one then I turned to open the door when he grabbed me by the leg and threw me down where my hands came upon the hatchet there was a desperate struggle in which I used the hatchet until he laid quiet I cannot tell all what happened after that I was wild to dispose of the body I was in a horrible terror, so I began pulling off his garments that I might drag the body away somewhere and hide it.

[801] Then when my eyes fell upon one of those knives, I flew into a rage and began to cut him.

[802] When, and then he woke and grabbed me. Then for a while I used that hatchet until I was sure he was dead.

[803] E. So, when the police, so, so obviously Miranda calls.

[804] the police, they come and they look through his room, and the reverend, they find hypodermic needles in his belongings, and they find needle marks on his arms.

[805] And apparently he's among other things, and possibly this was part of the mental illness, he was a morphine addict.

[806] So that could have been the hallucinatory idea of like, someone's controlling me and they're meeting me everywhere I go.

[807] For sure.

[808] Three days after Reverend Carmichael's suicide, four Detroit physicians performed an autopsy on his body, and found that the preacher had suffered from several brain abnormalities.

[809] Gideon Browning's widow, who lived in Auburn, New York, stated for the record that her husband had no occult powers and had not been studying hypnotism.

[810] Yeah, right.

[811] Of course that's what she'd say.

[812] Of course she'd say that.

[813] You saw her.

[814] She's got a first name and everything.

[815] You saw her in that dress?

[816] Yeah.

[817] The New York Times found the case interesting enough to note editorially that it is impossible to hypnotize someone against his will.

[818] Thank you.

[819] Just so people knew.

[820] And impossible to make a hypnotized person do something that he would not ordinarily do.

[821] The Rattle Run Methodist Church, the woodburning, oh, at the Rottel Run Methodist Church, the wood burning stove was replaced.

[822] You got a hope.

[823] Right?

[824] And the pews were replaced, and the walls were redecorated, is the word they used.

[825] Let's give it a new theme and make it a little cheerier in here, because.

[826] I don't.

[827] Flower, like, flower wallpaper?

[828] Anything, anything but blood.

[829] We'll go more of a blue.

[830] But then, and we can get back to this picture, oh no, it's horrible.

[831] There, 28 years later, they knocked down that church because everybody stopped going to it.

[832] A lot of people blamed Polish Lutheran farmers from moving into the area and taking away that Methodist business.

[833] But we all know it was the Unitarians.

[834] Come on.

[835] And that, I'm so sorry to tell you, is the story of the Rattle Run Methodist Church.

[836] Amazing.

[837] I thought the Reverend was going to end up having stolen his identity and later date out of town, hoping that they would think he's...

[838] I don't know.

[839] I planned it more than he did.

[840] Please write it down.

[841] I will.

[842] All right.

[843] Okay.

[844] Here we go.

[845] Oh, thank you.

[846] Don't.

[847] That's what I'm doing.

[848] I'm doing the...

[849] I thought that was my last one.

[850] That's okay.

[851] I'm doing the murder of Tina Bigger.

[852] Here, let me show her to you.

[853] This is Tina.

[854] Sweet baby Angel.

[855] Okay.

[856] 1995, everyone.

[857] Tina Bigger, she's 23 years old.

[858] She's an honor student majoring in psychology at Oakland University.

[859] The screaming.

[860] Banshees.

[861] That's right.

[862] It's in a suburb outside of Detroit called Farmington.

[863] Or Farmington Hills.

[864] I couldn't figure.

[865] They're saying no. Farmington.

[866] Okay, great.

[867] What about Farmington Meadows?

[868] No, we hate that one.

[869] That's where the mall is.

[870] And I got a lot of information from Forensic Files episode, a city confidential.

[871] So I just fucking love that thing.

[872] In the sleepy bird of Farmington.

[873] I think I deleted how they explained what Farmington was, but it was the most, it was like, if Detroit is an angry car zipping through the, you know, speeding, then Farmington is a vintage bicycle, right?

[874] Like, it was seriously the most insane thing, and I don't know why I could get out.

[875] Nothing better.

[876] City Confidential is like number one.

[877] That's right.

[878] Okay.

[879] So, um, my mom.

[880] So she's the eldest of five.

[881] and she's born in South Dakota to a military family.

[882] Her dad is a Coast Guard commander, her mother's a nurse, and of course the family moves around a ton because that's what happens when you're in the Coast Guard, apparently.

[883] I've never done it.

[884] I don't know.

[885] But she's super close with her family, of course, that's what happens.

[886] And her siblings say she's a great big sister.

[887] And so she goes to Oakland University for psychology.

[888] She lives with her boyfriend Todd in an upscale apartment in Farmington, upscale neighborhood.

[889] Who cares?

[890] I mean, okay So they'd been there for a few years before they moved in together and he helped her get a part -time job as a waitress to put herself through school at Rochester Chop House which is like an after party there.

[891] She's super popular waitress.

[892] They say she always earns the highest tips because people like her immediately that she could wait on anybody and they would not just like her but the restaurant too and they keep coming back for it.

[893] And so she's paying it right through school, but money is tight.

[894] She maxes out her credit cards.

[895] She gets rough.

[896] Todd is a student at the University of Michigan.

[897] He and Tina.

[898] We're not doing this today, guys.

[899] I have to hear it in my own home all the time.

[900] He and Tina.

[901] Hey, Tina.

[902] Huh?

[903] What did you say?

[904] He and Tina.

[905] Todd and Tina.

[906] He.

[907] Oh, God.

[908] Sorry.

[909] I'm so sorry.

[910] I thought you were.

[911] what the name of the mascot was.

[912] Oh, no. I skipped that one.

[913] Do you want to do it?

[914] No. The Fighting Farmingtons?

[915] Great.

[916] Great.

[917] So Todd and Tina, they're on again, off again for years.

[918] Friends say they're affectionate, but their relationship is tumultuous.

[919] And the year before, it's Tina's fall semester of her junior year in September 1994, Tina had gotten this crazy big opportunity at her college, only eight students got it, to assist her psychology professor in a research project that was about AIDS awareness.

[920] It was funded by the CDC, and the whole point was to interview sex workers who worked on the street and those who were then incarcerated.

[921] So at a detention center near Detroit, so basically they would go in, they would interview the sex workers and find out their knowledge about STDN AIDS, and then they would track them afterwards and see and follow up on the retention of their information, etc. Friends say that she got really like committed to the investigation or the project and that she became close with the sex workers.

[922] She was just like a kind person who really enjoyed her work.

[923] So she then proposes her honors project of her own entitled Survey of Sexual History and Health Practices among women employed as escorts.

[924] So she wanted to go from the sex workers who worked on the street to like actual escorts and see what was this fucking story.

[925] But her school professors were like, we're not going to send you out there to do that.

[926] That's a no. Okay, so there's where we are, et cetera.

[927] On August 23rd, 1995, Todd leaves her work that morning.

[928] He leaves Tina at home asleep, but when he gets home, she's gone.

[929] But all of her car's gone, but all of her personal belongings are gone, including her glasses, which she needs to see.

[930] obviously I mean so Todd so Todd's wondering where the hell she is she where could she be he calls the chop house and is like you know is Tina there and and they're like what are you talking about she quit four months earlier yeah okay and he's like what are you talking about she washes and irons her waitress outfit all the time oh man and goes to work every day maybe not every day but all the time what the fuck this is weird so Todd waits for her her, she doesn't come home, and then he calls Tina's father of Bill, who comes into town to help look for Tina.

[931] They do some digging of their own.

[932] It's weird.

[933] They call the police.

[934] And police discover that Tina had been planning to move out of the apartment with Todd that they shared.

[935] So that made them suspicious of him, but spoiler alert, it wasn't him.

[936] Okay.

[937] Police also learned that Tina had found evidence recently that Todd had cheated on her when he discovered the worst of all things, a suggestive greeting card and straw with the most unimaginative affair in the world.

[938] Back when you just wanted to go ahead and put it down on paper that you were cheating.

[939] Not on paper.

[940] You want to go into a fucking hallmark.

[941] Go to the...

[942] I'm having an affair aisle.

[943] Yeah, really.

[944] It's the one behind the beads.

[945] Right.

[946] Back in the corner.

[947] The adult cards.

[948] That's right.

[949] Actually, I'm ever -recovered memory of walking home from school one time, and we found a bunch of, well, it was like garbage in a ditch, and we loved garbage.

[950] We were like little raccoons, and we would just go through that garbage.

[951] But one of the things I saw laying there was so stupid.

[952] It was basically a guy in a bathtub, and it was like, I use dial soap, because dial spelled backwards means happy.

[953] which is laid like getting laid and I didn't know that term because I was like eight so I was like racking my brain I was just like what could this be it was I was so I was titillated to a point and then I just couldn't go any further well you're not supposed to understand dad jokes at eight yeah a greeting card jokes oh hey so I'm I'm slightly sorry Tina found the evidence that Todd was having the affair?

[954] Tina had found that evidence, like, in the past year, and so they were planning on moving, she was going to move out, they were still going to date, but then she didn't come home.

[955] So, and people said that Todd and Tina fought all the time, blah, blah, blah.

[956] You're supposed to be suspicious that he did it, but I already told you he didn't.

[957] Yeah.

[958] We're past that part in City Confidential.

[959] Right, yes.

[960] I mean, clearly I wrote this.

[961] Okay.

[962] So Todd is baffled.

[963] he doesn't understand where the hell she went.

[964] So he starts searching the apartment for clues, and he finds a duffel bag he's never seen before.

[965] Opens that fucking shit up.

[966] An insider, condoms, thigh -high stockings, lingerie, lube, credit card slips, and envelopes addressed to the L .A. escort service with the name Crystal on the upper corner.

[967] And so he calls the escort service.

[968] They're like, we don't know anyone named Tina Bigger, but we do know who Crystal is.

[969] and it turns out that it's Tina.

[970] He's like, we actually have six crystals here.

[971] Crystal C or Crystal R. Crystal B or D or L?

[972] Crystal with two Ys or Crystal with one?

[973] Crystal with three Ys?

[974] Everyone here's on crystal.

[975] So we don't know which crystal is which.

[976] It's the 90s.

[977] Everyone's on Crystal.

[978] Okay.

[979] So, fucking shit, it turns out that way back when she was like, when she was interviewing the sex workers that were locked up, they were like, honey, you're so hot, and since you're smart, you'd be really good in this business.

[980] And she was like, you know, probably curious, but then, so it's so hard to tell exactly what happened, obviously, because she can't tell it herself, but she had eventually in late 1994 begun working at the Gross Point Escort Service called Classical elegance, with a rose at the end of it.

[981] With a tiny crystal at the bottom.

[982] Just like, in case you weren't sure what it was, just the name Crystal was listed at the bottom.

[983] And listen, for you little babies, there was no internet.

[984] There was no Craigslist back then.

[985] And escort services that you found, like, in the paper, right?

[986] Really the way that you would discreetly meet up with someone.

[987] It was like the free weekly paper.

[988] Yeah.

[989] And there would be like, do you want pot?

[990] You have to sign up for a medical trial and be injected with weird drugs.

[991] And everyone's like, we know that's a cop.

[992] It's like a sting.

[993] not falling for it.

[994] So then business was slow at classical elegance with a crystal.

[995] So she went to L .A. Dreams and another, which is like L .A. dreams.

[996] That's so sad.

[997] If you've been there, you know that it's not a good dream.

[998] It's all, that dream is traffic and rejection.

[999] Dream on.

[1000] It's mostly like Inland Empire nightmares.

[1001] Dream on.

[1002] And the other one was called Calendar Girls, which is a little better.

[1003] That's for the really old ladies.

[1004] I saw that movie.

[1005] All those ladies were 75.

[1006] And so those two were run by two different sisters.

[1007] Their name was Debbie and Donna.

[1008] I'm not going to say their last name because whatever.

[1009] We don't want to...

[1010] These are good women.

[1011] I mean it.

[1012] I'm not being...

[1013] Okay.

[1014] Let me tell you why.

[1015] Okay.

[1016] Because, so...

[1017] Stopping so defensive.

[1018] Why am I telling the story ahead of time constantly?

[1019] So Tina became a really popular escort there.

[1020] She booked as many as 50 appointments between May. and August.

[1021] At one point, she earned as much as $250 per appointment, which in today's money is actually $430.

[1022] Oh, wow.

[1023] Which inflation, man, that shit's crazy.

[1024] To her bosses, of course, Donna, our friends Donna and Debbie, they were, they said that she was anomaly because of her wholesome appearance and modest dress.

[1025] You know, she's just a college student trying to make some extra money.

[1026] And when they asked her why she became an escort, Tina said, Todd, this is my way of paying him back without him knowing it.

[1027] Oh, I know.

[1028] Just break up.

[1029] Okay.

[1030] Despite her success, though, it schools her top priority.

[1031] She's still getting great grades and doing really well in school.

[1032] And she goes home all the time to visit her family.

[1033] So no one has any idea of her life like that until she disappears.

[1034] So then, when looking into what the fuck's going on, they find out that two weeks before her disappearance on August 11th, 1995, Tina had booked an appointment through L .A. Dreams with a 42 -year -old dude named Ken Trancheetah, and he says he's a wealthy businessman.

[1035] Sure.

[1036] I think of a photo of him.

[1037] Here he is.

[1038] Right.

[1039] Okay.

[1040] Was that Rob Wrigal?

[1041] That's who's going to play him.

[1042] Um, do you know his cousin was my Uber driver in Hawaii?

[1043] Oh.

[1044] Rob Wrigal's cousin?

[1045] Very weird.

[1046] Did you say prove it?

[1047] Text him right now.

[1048] Prove it?

[1049] I didn't.

[1050] Okay, so this dude can, uh, he, like Tina, he was raised of a devout Catholic from a large family, but now he's a drifter and a pedicon who can't get a shit together.

[1051] Between menial jobs, he sponges off his, his relatives.

[1052] His stepfather said about him, and this is what you want your stepfather to say about you, he was a great con man. He made everyone feel sorry for him.

[1053] Step -dads.

[1054] So he had grown up in Southfield, and between 1981, where nobody lives anymore, and between 1981 and 1993, he had been convicted of at least seven petty offenses, ranging from credit card theft to parole violation, and in total had spent five years and five months in prison, on again, off again, relationship with prison.

[1055] With prison.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] So he's, of course, not a wealthy businessman like Tina thinks, but he's currently working at a car wash, where not many wealthy businessmen work.

[1058] But at least they have that great theme song.

[1059] Records from the escort services reveal that he had requested Tina's services many times, in the first two weeks of meeting.

[1060] Their first meeting takes place at the Bluebird Motel, which I'm sure is great.

[1061] Super nice.

[1062] Five star.

[1063] Five stars.

[1064] Five star.

[1065] Twelve days before her disappearance.

[1066] So when he meets her, he tells her that she's the most beautiful woman in the world, and then she calls up the escort service.

[1067] He calls up the escort service and is like, I bought her a ring.

[1068] Like, he's already obsessed with her.

[1069] Okay.

[1070] So according to him, they started to meet after that, that first session without the agency knowing and she stops charging him as if they're like in love.

[1071] But that's what he fucking says and I don't buy it for a minute.

[1072] She's like, it's a thing of like when you're nice to someone who's crazy and they think that that means they're in love with you, really you're paying them to be nice to you, literally?

[1073] It's just crazy.

[1074] He says that they're planning on moving into a new apartment together and that they find a love letter from Ken and Tina's personal items.

[1075] It reads, Dear Tina, my heart is yours for you to keep your love will lift me off my feet oh wait this is going to be a rhyming one that's what you think and then this next line comes and blows it out of the water you came to me your love is so willing I know it's worth all our waiting so no sorry to disappoint you so police go to Ken's apartment and they notice the name Crystal on some artwork on the fridge and they find out that a local car dealer said he saw Tina with Ken and they were looking at cars together right before her disappearance and Ken had said he was going to help her and give her like 11 grand for a new car so that's and then they were ended up fighting at the car dealership a couple days before she disappeared so up until that point she may have really believed he was a rich businessman like he said okay yeah so for two and a half weeks after Tina's disappearance, Todd and Tina, Todd, her boyfriend, and Tina's dad Bill, they search for her, and from phone bills, it's clear that she was deeply involved with escort services.

[1076] And let's see, so then Bill, the dad, Mr. Coast Guard, he calls Debbie of the calendar girls, one of the sisters, and he's like, I need your help.

[1077] And even though they were risking, incriminating themselves, both sisters were like, fuck it, yes, we'll help you.

[1078] You know, they care.

[1079] for Tina.

[1080] So they give him like all the information about Ken and shit.

[1081] And so it seems like kind of dropped out of sight at this time by but on August 31st he leaves a message with Debbie who now is fucking looking for him and it's traced to a bowling alley where in Farmington Hills police find him.

[1082] They question him on and off for nine hours and he denies any knowledge of her disappearance.

[1083] He says that he drove her to the airport for a flight to Ohio where she was meeting a client.

[1084] Oh.

[1085] But so many people want to cheer for Ohio and they know it's inappropriate.

[1086] Just do it.

[1087] Oh, and then people hate Ohio.

[1088] You guys.

[1089] You know what's really weird about this and the University of Michigan Malay is that when you don't give a shit about sports or college, you don't know what the fuck people are cheering about.

[1090] It's just noises.

[1091] Why are you mad at them?

[1092] It's just a college.

[1093] You guys be friends.

[1094] Yeah.

[1095] And we're all just trying to get an education over here.

[1096] Okay.

[1097] I didn't know, you know, the team for Los Angeles, the football team that were just in the...

[1098] The Rams?

[1099] I didn't know where they were from.

[1100] I asked Vince, oh, and where are they from?

[1101] Oh, God.

[1102] Los Angeles.

[1103] I need to try to give a shit once in a while.

[1104] they questioned him for nine hours he denies any knowledge he says he flew her to he drove her to the flight here's her fucking car keys in his pocket because he says that she left her car with him for safekeeping while she was away in Ohio yeah for real every one of every single one green flags so police get her car find our car.

[1105] They searched through it.

[1106] The trunk's like full of, you know, you're a college student you just throw shit in the trunk.

[1107] They don't know.

[1108] There's nothing to be seen here, officer.

[1109] And they find paperwork from the escort service, and they find out that she had had contact with people that are living out of the state and out of the country, so they're like, well, maybe she did fucking later days somewhere.

[1110] But police use cadaver dogs to search the area near Ken's home.

[1111] They can't find anything.

[1112] And so they have to release Ken from custody.

[1113] So fucking Bill Bigger, the dad, such a badass motherfucker.

[1114] He is so pissed off.

[1115] He goes to his friend, Ken's friend's trailer where he's staying and questions him throughout the night relentlessly, the fucking dude who's suspected of killing his daughter.

[1116] It's crazy.

[1117] Yeah, this guy's a badass.

[1118] But he, to no avail, although they say at one point he had to go in the other room and throw up because he was so freaked about talking about it.

[1119] How fucking annoying.

[1120] Okay.

[1121] A couple of weeks later, no other leads.

[1122] Police are like, you know what, let's look through that car a little bit more.

[1123] Like, let's move something to one side and look underneath things, which they hadn't.

[1124] Isn't?

[1125] Okay.

[1126] What they thought were coffee stains.

[1127] It's not coffee stains.

[1128] Let me look and show you.

[1129] There's a, that's not coffee.

[1130] Oh, no. That spilled coffee.

[1131] in her trunk, it's blood.

[1132] And they pick up the fucking mat and it's a pool of her blood in the back, in the trunk of her car.

[1133] And DNA confirms that it belongs to Tina.

[1134] So, and because of the amount of blood, police upgrade the case from a missing person to a homicide.

[1135] Ken's a prime suspect, obviously, but he's fucking gotten out of there.

[1136] And then a month after Tina's disappearance, the cops get a tip.

[1137] And it had been cold it, like they had no idea where she was.

[1138] Ken's own fucking brother suggests that the police search a deserted home once owned by their aunt in Southfield.

[1139] I think I have a photo of it.

[1140] No, I don't.

[1141] Just picture the Methodist church, but with less windows.

[1142] For real?

[1143] Like, super, yeah, abandoned creepy style.

[1144] He's like, go look over there.

[1145] And so they did, and the house is just 10 miles from Tina's apartment, and there they find the badly decomposed body of a young woman in the woods behind the house, and, of course, dental records show that it's Tina.

[1146] But because of the rate of decomposition, they can't tell the exact cause of death, but they do know that whatever it was started in her neck, so they think it's strangulation.

[1147] So meanwhile, they're like, oh, shit, we need to find Ken. So in forensic files, they call it a rundown neighborhood in downtown Detroit, which I'm guessing now is like really nice and some of you probably live there.

[1148] So it's called the Cass Corridor.

[1149] Is that right?

[1150] And then I, and then they showed what the apartment building where he was, and I could tell it's a nice neighborhood because there was a Whole Foods there.

[1151] Yeah.

[1152] I looked on the mat.

[1153] And it's in the Nottingham apartment.

[1154] So if you live in there, congratulations.

[1155] It used to be a terrible neighborhood.

[1156] As police close in on him, does like a bullshit attempt at killing himself.

[1157] He slits his wrist and takes some pills, but he thankfully survives.

[1158] And after hours of interrogation, he says that he and Tina had had an argument about money, and they struggled in the old fucking bullshit.

[1159] She fell and hit her head story.

[1160] But the x -rays to Tina's head show no sign of any trauma at all.

[1161] So they're like, you're fucking lying.

[1162] So then he confesses that he said, he fucking said, Tina was just so miserable in those last days that I decided, that I made a decision to end it for her and put her out of her misery.

[1163] No. Yeah.

[1164] He accepts a plea bargain and pleads guilty to second degree murder.

[1165] And of course Tina's family don't want to accept that, but they also don't want what you guys know would fucking happen if they go to trial, which is that the defense attorney would, you know, make it seem like a relationship or something.

[1166] No, would make it seem like Tina, like slut -shamed Tina, basically.

[1167] And like drag out all the shit.

[1168] She's like, been going through.

[1169] And her parents didn't want that to happen to her.

[1170] So they accepted, begrudgingly, the plea bargain.

[1171] And at a sentencing trial, this is him.

[1172] He says to the fucking family, I miss Tina just like you guys do.

[1173] Yeah.

[1174] Prosecutors believed that when Tina found out that Ken had lied to her about having money, they fought, and Ken strangled her.

[1175] So, um, On September 27th, the funeral is held for Tina in Acme, Michigan.

[1176] Her casket is carried to the church by six white -gloved Coast Guardsmen.

[1177] And so after, let's see, he's found guilty.

[1178] He's found guilty, of course.

[1179] Two weeks after his sentencing, our friends Debbie and Donna of Calendar girls and shit.

[1180] LA Dreams and Callant Girls.

[1181] They're fucking arrested for solicitation.

[1182] So they knew that if they said yes, we'll help you and, you know, admitted that they did this that's possible is going to happen, and they did it anyways, which is pretty insane.

[1183] Yeah.

[1184] They're sentenced to probation, and they say they have no regrets about cooperating.

[1185] Debbie said, for the sake of the bigger family, I would do everything all over again.

[1186] Yeah.

[1187] Tina's father, Bill, refused to concede publicly that Tina was doing anything other than research.

[1188] and he said my daughter is not on trial here this is about the son of a bitch who killed her yeah yeah and Ken's sentence to the maximum penalty in Michigan which is life in prison where he still is today yes good wow crazy Jesus I know it's so frustrating it feels like it was like 50 years ago yeah in that way where it's just like archaic there's so much to risk if you're a sex worker and then somebody actually fucking hurts you.

[1189] It's insane.

[1190] Ridiculous.

[1191] It's time for a hometown murder.

[1192] Pain.

[1193] Thank you.

[1194] Pay.

[1195] Tell us what you told.

[1196] Remember the party stores?

[1197] We found out that party stores aren't where you buy Mylar balloons.

[1198] You guys want to hit a party store after this?

[1199] Yeah.

[1200] Get a couple few 40s?

[1201] All right.

[1202] Okay.

[1203] Thanks.

[1204] All right.

[1205] You guys have to listen to these rules.

[1206] It's really important that you listen to the rules.

[1207] Because the rules have been made for a reason.

[1208] We're just trying to get good stories up here that we can all enjoy in a sober, and cleanly told manner.

[1209] We don't want you to embarrass yourself or your family.

[1210] And we don't want to be bored.

[1211] Who does, really, at the end of the day?

[1212] keep it tight don't be so drunk you can't tell your own story keep it local Michigan definitely Detroit ideally Somewhere on here Yeah keep it in the mitten please And also I guess everyone hates you I think is the other one Okay should I do it Yeah do it and do it quick Okay can I get let And don't just do Don't do the wine thing don't do it whatever flashing in front of you just feel something with your heart you can do it oh you got it can i get the lights come over this this away yeah you have to walk this away go around the front one and two faster it's very scary doing that guys hi oh mcg where are you from i'm from the west side in miss g Yeah.

[1213] Okay.

[1214] So about 20 years ago, I worked in a factory and...

[1215] Where's the factory?

[1216] In Grand Haven, Michigan.

[1217] What did you guys make at that factory?

[1218] Yeah, we...

[1219] Plastic parts for the car industry.

[1220] Sure.

[1221] All the one that goes under the hood?

[1222] We appreciate it.

[1223] So, I worked.

[1224] worked in this factory, and I went to work one night, and a co -worker, who was close and aged to me, didn't show up for work.

[1225] So the next night, we worked third shift, so the next night, I got up.

[1226] I was late for work.

[1227] I saw something on the news about a murder, but I didn't pay is very upset.

[1228] And I don't know why until they tell me. It's very upsetting because I knew this person.

[1229] What was their name?

[1230] April.

[1231] Yeah.

[1232] What was really sad is her mom worked there as well.

[1233] She was a manager.

[1234] So, anyways, that night, it was very upsetting because we did find out that April was murdered and what happened was she was murdered it was Thanksgiving time and she was at her boyfriend she went to her boyfriends for Thanksgiving dinner and her boyfriend's brother for whatever reason decided to murder his family oh my god and he murdered his brother his mother, his father, April, and his grandfather, and her mother, because she didn't show up to work.

[1235] They called her as an emergency contact, and she went to the scene and interrupted the murderer, Seth Pravaki, while they were trying to, whatever they were doing.

[1236] They were trying had the bodies, whatever, they were panicking.

[1237] Anyways, Seth Parvaki was caught, and he was convicted, along with his fun.

[1238] And then, I believe in 2015, he attempted to escape the prison that he was in, and he was shot and killed.

[1239] And that's my hometown.

[1240] Thank you, darling.

[1241] Tara, Tara.

[1242] Tara.

[1243] that's what it's like fuck man that's the reality of these fucking stories and this reality of life really fucking horrible things happen to people and they're people it's the people around us it's the people that you look at every single day everybody has a story maybe not as fucking awful as that story but everybody has a fucking awful story and it's a very good thing to keep in when you're going out into the world because it's very easy to think everybody has your story instead of a story like that.

[1244] So what's beautiful about this community and the things that you guys are doing with each other is that you're all coming together with this empathy and this understanding about the worst shittiest parts of life and how the only thing that can help us through those things are each other.

[1245] That's it.

[1246] I mean, you can drink and you can get high and you can do a bunch of other shit but at the end of the day, you're still going to have to deal with the horrible stuff and so it's very, very amazing.

[1247] We just got together because we wanted to talk about things that we were like holy fucking shit, can you believe that happened?

[1248] And it made us feel better with our anxiety by telling someone else that story that kept us up at night.

[1249] Right.

[1250] But then out of that, grew this thing where all these people wanted to listen and feel those feelings and empathize and emote because that's really what it's all about.

[1251] That's just really what it's all about at the end of the day.

[1252] Thank you guys for creating this fucking incredible community.

[1253] We're so honored to be a part of it, to be up here on stage.

[1254] You guys are incredible.

[1255] And I just have one more thing.

[1256] Sorry.

[1257] I found out today that a comedian that I love very much died.

[1258] Brody Stevens died, and what's amazing, I'm, it's terrible.

[1259] I've known him for a really long time.

[1260] He really, really suffered with his mental illness, but he also fought with it, and he also was in it with it constantly.

[1261] If you go home and watch his comedy, he's really miraculous.

[1262] hilarious.

[1263] Like, comedy that is coming from a place that, like, is somewhere else.

[1264] And he, part of the reason he can do what he does on stage is because he has that mental illness.

[1265] It's part of the personality.

[1266] And he made it kind of work for him.

[1267] And that's also a big part of art. It's not about being perfect.

[1268] It's about being incredibly fucked up.

[1269] And so, I was texting with my friends who know him also and love him also, and one of my friends told me that Brody Stephen's grandfather used to run the Fox Theater.

[1270] So, crazy.

[1271] We missed you, Brody.

[1272] You were one of a kind.

[1273] Sorry, I just wanted to say that because it seemed very fateful that that would be what was going on tonight.

[1274] Anyway, we love you guys.

[1275] guys, and we're thrilled to be here with you.

[1276] Thank you so much, you guys.

[1277] Thank you.

[1278] This is the this really is the pinnacle of comedy performance for me anyway, coming up as a stand -up.

[1279] Shows like this, I never thought I was going to be able to do them.

[1280] So the fact that you've given me this gift and giving us both this gift, we'll never be able to thank you enough.

[1281] Nope, never.

[1282] Do us a favor.

[1283] And stay saved.

[1284] I'm just kidding.

[1285] Stay sexy.

[1286] And...