Zach Woods

[0] Hi, my name is Zach Woods.

[1] And I feel pick -me about being Conan O 'Brien's friend.

[2] What?

[3] Pick -Me girl is someone who is like sort of self -consciously quirky as a way of differentiating themselves from the masses so that people are like, ooh, she's interesting.

[4] In this scenario, you're the pick -me -girl.

[5] Yeah, I'm the pick -me -girl.

[6] I'm going to just feign a kind of casual nonchalance while underneath I'm desperate for your approval and the approval of everybody here.

[7] Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking loose, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends.

[8] I can tell that we are going to be friends.

[9] Hey there, welcome to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend.

[10] I am the aforementioned Conan O 'Brien, mysterious man from the past, possibly the future, joined by Matt Gourley.

[11] You're from the future?

[12] I could be.

[13] We just don't know.

[14] I've got a beef with the future.

[15] No, in the future, everything's great.

[16] We solve all those problems, people are worried about.

[17] So they banished you from the future?

[18] I was the last existing.

[19] They fixed global warming.

[20] All wars have stopped.

[21] There's no income inequality.

[22] And then they looked around and said, what else?

[23] And I was standing there.

[24] And I went and I said, yeah, what else?

[25] The next thing I knew, I was being told me. cost into a time machine.

[26] So here I am anyway.

[27] And Sona's not with us today.

[28] She's a little under the weather.

[29] But we are joined by her replacement and who can really replace Sona.

[30] So you've already failed.

[31] David Hopping.

[32] Hi.

[33] How are you?

[34] How are you?

[35] Good are you?

[36] Good to see you.

[37] I was like that you didn't say that you're like in the present.

[38] You're only in the past in the future.

[39] I've never been truly present.

[40] It really hurt me as an actor.

[41] We should mention that Sona will be on the interview in the final segment.

[42] She's just not here for this intro today.

[43] Oh, yes.

[44] She'll be better in a minute.

[45] Yeah.

[46] She'll be better in a minute.

[47] We've got a couple minutes.

[48] She's just in the restroom.

[49] She's being treated in the future.

[50] Yes.

[51] Where all diseases have been cured.

[52] And then she's being rocketed back to us.

[53] Yes.

[54] She'll be glowing and wearing an acrylic suit.

[55] I want to mention something very quickly.

[56] It was announced over the weekend.

[57] I'm very excited about this.

[58] That my new travel series, a series of specials, is going to be dropping on Max.

[59] Or you can call it HBO Max?

[60] Can you now?

[61] I think it's just Max, Daddy.

[62] Oh, is it?

[63] You can't say HBO Max anymore?

[64] Well, I just want educating, in case there's some old fogey out there like me, who's listening going, what is this, Max?

[65] I'm going to be, yeah, it's coming out and it's been announced over the weekend that it's going to be dropping.

[66] That's what the kids say dropping.

[67] But they still say HBO, but they say dropping.

[68] No, Max is dropping.

[69] HBO coming soon to a theater near you with clock table.

[70] Conan O 'Brien Must Go is the name of the series.

[71] I like it.

[72] I'm proud of it.

[73] and it's dropping on April 18th.

[74] This is very exciting.

[75] I've seen the intro to the first episode.

[76] I don't think I can over sell it by saying, You just did.

[77] No, I don't think it can be done.

[78] It's tremendous.

[79] Oh, I'm glad you like it.

[80] Yeah.

[81] And of course, you're in it as well.

[82] That's what I'm saying.

[83] It's tremendous.

[84] But, no, I am, I think you've seen all of them.

[85] I think it's the best thing you've ever done.

[86] Oh, that's really nice of you.

[87] I'm very happy with it.

[88] If you like me, I think you'll like these shows on Max.

[89] If you don't like me, don't watch them.

[90] Because I can't help you.

[91] So much Conan.

[92] I love anyone who's listening to this podcast who really hates Conan O 'Brien.

[93] It's just aversion therapy they're doing.

[94] But anyway, so that's my quick message.

[95] We'll be talking about it much more as we get closer to April 18th.

[96] Conan O 'Brien must go on Max.

[97] How are you, Matt?

[98] I'm good.

[99] Yeah.

[100] Yeah.

[101] I'm sleep deprived.

[102] I'm not going to lie.

[103] I'm not good.

[104] I'm not good.

[105] Have you tried tons of caffeine in the morning?

[106] For me?

[107] What's a lot of caffeine for you?

[108] Maybe three cups would be too much caffeine.

[109] I often have one or two cups a day.

[110] What's the symptom that you show if you have too much caffeine?

[111] Do you get like heart palpitations?

[112] Are you nervous?

[113] I feel like I turn into an 80s cocaine stockbroker who's just kind of loose and tie, jittery guy.

[114] You've got suspenders on?

[115] Yeah, with a blue shirt, white collar.

[116] Basically everything from Wall Street.

[117] Yes, exactly.

[118] Are you a fan of the movie Wall Street?

[119] Have you watched so?

[120] Yeah.

[121] Yeah, I think so.

[122] Yeah.

[123] Have we talked about the moment?

[124] I didn't know I had to come down on either side of that.

[125] Honestly, I wasn't prepared.

[126] One of my favorite line readings ever is Charlie Sheen is in the elevator with his dad, Martin Sheen.

[127] And I preface this by saying, I like the movie.

[128] I really love Martin Sheen, but he does this very interesting line reading where he's arguing with his son who he thinks has lost his head, you know, chasing these big bucks.

[129] And he says, I've never measured a man's success by the size of his wallet.

[130] That's the line is written in the script.

[131] But he says, I've never measured a man's success by the size of his wallet.

[132] And it's fantastic.

[133] And I'm always imagining that he's holding a, you can't see because it's a chest up shot, that he's holding a bowling ball, that Martin Sheen's holding a bowling ball and it slips out and lands on his toe.

[134] And he didn't intend that, but it lands on his toe as he's about to just say, wallet.

[135] He doesn't intend to.

[136] Never measured a man's success by the side of his slip.

[137] What?

[138] Jesus, that hurts.

[139] Cut.

[140] Cut.

[141] Let's try it again.

[142] No, we're using it.

[143] Anyway, we got to get into it.

[144] We have a wonderful show today.

[145] Love this fellow.

[146] Just love this fellow.

[147] My guest today, I really do.

[148] He's a wonderful guy, and he's brilliantly funny, and he's a magical man, in my opinion.

[149] He's a hilarious actor who starred in the HBO series Silicon Valley.

[150] Now he has a new comedy series, which he co -created and stars in called In The Know.

[151] It's very funny.

[152] It's available on Peacock.

[153] Thrilled he's here today.

[154] Zach Woods, welcome.

[155] You and I, we've got to talk about this right away.

[156] First of all, I thoroughly enjoy you so much that I was waiting for you to show up downstairs, which I never do with guests, but I was like a happy puppy waiting for Zach Woods to show up.

[157] You're hilarious, very funny fellow, and I always love hanging out with you and riffing with you.

[158] So I was there to guide your car into the parking spot.

[159] Yes, and I will say that you described yourself as a happy puppy.

[160] The first image of your face I saw was peeking kind of with a kind of predatory glance from behind the stucco.

[161] Yes.

[162] And then I pulled up and you immediately told me you had to cancel because today was not a good day and there would never be a good day.

[163] Yes, I did.

[164] Now, listen, you have to understand that's my way of showing someone I love them.

[165] Believe me. You should have heard my proposal to Liza.

[166] What's the opposite of a pygmy girl?

[167] Isn't I reject you, man. Did you have a big proposal?

[168] I don't know if you're willing to talk about this even, but like when you proposed, did you have like a proposal proposal?

[169] Or were you just like, want to get hitched?

[170] I was sort of, I had a ring in my pocket.

[171] Or is that a ring on your pocket?

[172] You know that kind of thing?

[173] What?

[174] Or do you just have a terrible phallic injury?

[175] Yeah.

[176] Is that a ring in your pocket or do you have a small, circular, metallic penis with a little nodule that resembles a jewel?

[177] That was my proposal.

[178] Can it be both?

[179] And will you marry me?

[180] Spend the rest of your life with this small, empty chode.

[181] But with a little diamond nub on it.

[182] Which, I'm serious.

[183] There's nothing wrong with that.

[184] I'm proud of my little...

[185] That's right.

[186] Ring penis.

[187] No, I did have a, I had a day I was going to do it, and I had the ring on me. I didn't have an elaborate.

[188] You know, some people do things like they tie it to the dog's collar and they call the dog in the room or they bake it into a souffle.

[189] One of my siblings had an incredibly elaborate one that involved meeting up with her, his fiancee, who's lovely, now my sister -in -law, unlike the top of a, you know, temple and Incas, Aztec temple, when he was.

[190] wasn't even supposed to be in country and being there at the same time, but I think he got the wrong temple.

[191] But he eventually, you know, found her and they figured it out.

[192] But anyway, I didn't want it to be too elaborate, so I didn't do one of those.

[193] That makes sense.

[194] And I think maybe this was a mistake, but I handed her to the ring and I said, you win.

[195] Oh, no. Oh, no. Well, I just, you know, like, you know, big star, top of every woman's list.

[196] of, if only I could.

[197] So that was probably the wrong way to go.

[198] Can I tell you something?

[199] And that you probably won't like this.

[200] Because I know you're self -effacingly saying top of every woman's list.

[201] I don't think I've ever had a girlfriend who didn't confess to having had a crush on you.

[202] Oh, no. Why don't these things never see back to me?

[203] I think, you know, you see what you look for.

[204] And my guess is the sexual energy that's flooding in your direction is being blocked out by some sort of colorblindness.

[205] but for...

[206] And thick sweaters.

[207] I always buy sweaters that absorb and repel.

[208] Any kind of sexuality coming my way.

[209] Well, you know, it's funny, we should talk about this because you and I, we have some similarities.

[210] We are both tall and I think men who were gangly in our youth.

[211] Would you say that?

[212] You were still quite gangly.

[213] I've put on a few, but you're...

[214] No, I've gained weight, but it doesn't...

[215] The gangliness is just a...

[216] Yeah, it's just buried gangliness, but it's still gangly.

[217] I mean, I...

[218] Bobby Moynihan, the actor, once described some of his body as looking like a lowercase B, where it's like all thin and gangly up top, but then a little punch.

[219] And I do feel like a lowercase B body.

[220] But, yeah, I'm gangly.

[221] I feel like I don't remember.

[222] I was thinking about it.

[223] I can't remember who said this, but someone describes someone as being like a daddy long legs.

[224] Yeah.

[225] Where there's just this little disc of cerebral energy and then legs.

[226] Yes, that's me. That's how I feel, too.

[227] I've always said I have like I have legs that just go on forever and then someone said as I was leaving the shop oh we for we didn't we need a torso on that thing and someone said well we don't have a whole torso let's just throw half of a torso over there so they did and then they said wouldn't it be funny if there was a giant paper mache head and they threw that on top and I went out the door but I've always been self -conscious I always try and wear things that break up the fact that my waist is sort of in the middle of my chest.

[228] Do you know what I mean?

[229] Cumber buns even in like non -formal situations.

[230] I wear them at pool parties.

[231] I wear a formal cumber bun.

[232] I heard this thing once.

[233] I was in an acting class, which is a shameful thing to admit, but I was.

[234] And there did a scene from Frankenstein where the monster goes back.

[235] He's fucked stuff up.

[236] He's killed people, whatever.

[237] He goes back to the doctor's lab and he goes, why did you make me?

[238] Uh -huh.

[239] He goes, I'm so ugly.

[240] I don't fit in.

[241] Why did you make me?

[242] And the doctor says, I just wanted to see if I could.

[243] And the monster's like, you wanted to see if you could?

[244] And then he goes, then you make me another and you make her as ugly and detestable as I am because I need someone to love and I need someone to love me. And I thought, that's so heartbreaking and beautiful.

[245] And I told my father that.

[246] And he's like, oh, I think that's sort of about, that's a story about kids.

[247] Like Frankenstein's made from the pieces of a bunch of old dead people, which is essentially what a kid is, you know, in a genetic way.

[248] Right.

[249] And that sort of question of like, why?

[250] Why did you bring me here?

[251] Right.

[252] It hangs over every parent.

[253] And when you were talking about being assembled with a paper mache head and legs and no torso, it made me think of the Frankenstein story.

[254] But, you know, it's funny, which, by the way, I just read for the first time the original Frankenstein, which is nothing like the movies, absolutely nothing like the movies.

[255] and really powerful, but very, very different, not what you'd think.

[256] Anyway, I'm just going to throw that out there and I want to remind people, you should read.

[257] Reading's important.

[258] The more you know.

[259] I was a little starburst going by.

[260] I used to have a TV show where we could make the starburst go by and I'm like, blah, blah, blah.

[261] Well, I, first of all, I don't want to embarrass you, but you're a very attractive fellow.

[262] Thank you.

[263] Jesus.

[264] And I'm just, just curious because I know I saw you, I think for the first time I remembered seeing you on the office.

[265] And then I have to say a show that my son and I really bonded over was Silicon Valley, which, as you know, I've talked to you about it, but I adored Silicon Valley.

[266] Absolutely adored it.

[267] And your character, Jared, was so funny and so delightful.

[268] And so I told my son today, oh, I'm going to, that I'd be seeing you.

[269] And he was, he doesn't respect me at all.

[270] But I saw respect in his eyes.

[271] So it was really, it was very cool.

[272] So happy.

[273] I mean, okay, I don't know how much earnestness this can accommodate, but I do want to, you can cut it out, right?

[274] You edit this, okay?

[275] I don't think we have the money to edit.

[276] Oh, really?

[277] No, no, no. We're making a ton of cash is coming in, but it's going out rapidly.

[278] Right up your nose.

[279] Well, I don't want to say it specifically.

[280] It's not just my nose, but.

[281] But he actually just snorts money.

[282] Yeah.

[283] I shred it and then I snort it.

[284] You can't see this, but he has a terribly deviated septum with like, Just like little pieces of Ben Franklin's face.

[285] It's really horrible.

[286] Yeah.

[287] But I was going to say this, one of the first times I ever saw you, because I don't know if people know this, in early days of Upright Citizens Brigade in New York, before it became this kind of factory for people who would then go on to populate all kinds of comedy shows, no one made any money.

[288] No one had, you know, people couldn't support themselves and everyone was a weirdo and not getting cast in whatever TV shows were being made.

[289] So Conan's show was how so many people kept themselves afloat.

[290] And the first time I ever filmed anything for television, I was cast on your show to play Leprocon with Marfan syndrome.

[291] That's my comedy, which was then cut.

[292] And then I also did a bit where I had to make out with somebody while Chris Matthews narrated it.

[293] And then I think that also got cut.

[294] But the point is I got like, I got a paycheck.

[295] You get paid either way.

[296] And it was, you really sort of were like the Medici of like freakazole.

[297] New York comedians where you're keeping us, you know, in our shitty apartments.

[298] That makes me really happy.

[299] I've heard that from other people.

[300] It was not, it was not a selfless act because, you know, we needed all these really talented performers to do incredibly bizarre things.

[301] So it worked out so nicely that at that time, there was just this incredible wealth.

[302] I mean, Amy Poehler used to play Andy Rector's sister on the show, and she wasn't on SNL.

[303] And we tried to use her like once a week and she played his sister who wore a giant headgear would give her a script that I'd like to think was a solid B. And I watched her every time take it to an A plus plus and then she would go into these incredibly ornate speeches.

[304] Where she'd be like invoking like Norse God's and screaming and um but she was so amazing.

[305] But I'm and later I was saying to reminding Amy like I didn't do that to be nice.

[306] You, you know, we were lucky to have you.

[307] We were lucky to have you.

[308] We were lucky to have all these incredibly talented people.

[309] But what's interesting to me is there's a couple of people that I see in comedy that sort of had my, a similar build to me when I was coming up.

[310] And I always want to bond with them.

[311] Stephen Merchant, same thing.

[312] I think of like you, Stephen Merchant.

[313] There's a couple of us praying mantis men out there that get into comedy.

[314] And white, white men.

[315] That's what you're drawing.

[316] to.

[317] That's what you're saying.

[318] Yes.

[319] Strong white men.

[320] I'm trying to...

[321] Strong.

[322] I'm sorry.

[323] That's the part that's objectionable.

[324] Not the flagrant racism that I'm assigning to you.

[325] But just the self -description is strong.

[326] That's the thing.

[327] I think, you know, it's about time white men caught a break.

[328] I've said this many times.

[329] No, but can I say I also, again, respectfully dissent because you have been supportive of me in ways that it's not like we're hanging out going fishing on the weekends.

[330] Like, you've just extended your platform, your support, your praise in a way that is completely benefitless.

[331] You know, I made a short film that you promoted.

[332] That was how it got any audience at all.

[333] You brought me on your show before anyone wanted me on any talk shows.

[334] And I don't think this is unique to me. I think you're someone who has a real kind of comedy Robin Hood vibe in this way.

[335] Oh, that's nice.

[336] I have to say it just comes from I like when And people really make me laugh.

[337] I just want to be around them.

[338] I want to have, I want them to do well.

[339] And then I want them to cast me in their works.

[340] Sorry.

[341] That's the long con. Is there something specific that you, like, I know someday you're going to make a movie, and there's going to be a part that I'm not right for at all.

[342] And I'm going to guilt you into giving it to me, and it's going to really hurt the movie.

[343] And you and me. Can I ask you, this is something.

[344] Now I'm being selfish.

[345] And again, I, but.

[346] No, no, this is.

[347] This is the idea.

[348] We talk.

[349] We talk.

[350] I know, okay.

[351] To be fair, though, if I had known you were going to praise him this much, I wouldn't have come in.

[352] Because it's gross.

[353] Yeah.

[354] He doesn't want me to get anything good.

[355] I was talking to a woman writes on a succession and she said, British people don't like award shows because they don't like getting awards and they don't like seeing other people get awards.

[356] That's hilarious.

[357] I love the honesty of that, too.

[358] People have an allergy to having any kind of an interior life and also to having a body.

[359] It's like people in the UK.

[360] I mean, I love a lot of the people I met and worked with in the UK, but the feeling is kind of like you can't cop to having ambition or aggression, any of that stuff because it's so unseemly.

[361] But in the process of trying to kind of obfuscate what you're actually feeling inside, it can get kind of weird.

[362] It can feel sort of cunning in a way.

[363] And when I would come back from England to L .A. where everyone is so just unabashedly self -promotional.

[364] I found it to be a relief because it's like, okay, at least you're, like, telling me what a hero you are to my face instead of hiding whatever self -regard you feel behind this kind of, you know.

[365] Right.

[366] Right.

[367] I like people who are, like, I have a friend who talks a lot about all the famous people he knows because he's delighted to know so many famous people.

[368] And it's relaxing to me because I'm like, oh, yeah, I know where you stand.

[369] It's like, can you believe it?

[370] Sarah Paulson loves me. I can.

[371] You're a nice guy.

[372] I mean, she just called me to ask if I wanted to come to Art Basel.

[373] And you're like, great.

[374] I don't know.

[375] Look at this list of numbers on my phone.

[376] I do this a lot.

[377] Even around here, I'll apologize like nine times before I say the name.

[378] You know, it's kind of cool that I bumped in and was in a restaurant and I saw, okay, this is kind of lame, but I did see.

[379] And then you say famous person's name.

[380] And you think, well, no, I'm living in.

[381] I work in this industry.

[382] Why am I apologizing 10 times?

[383] Because it almost then starts to feel like that's its own kind of, I don't know, it's like a deal.

[384] You know how like air fresheners can make smells worse?

[385] Yes.

[386] It's kind of like the social version of that where there's like an air freshener that doesn't quite cover up what you're doing.

[387] So then it feels like this kind of like if you feel like you have to, okay, money I think is a really interesting one.

[388] Like where people don't want to talk about money because it's so uncomfortable.

[389] But sometimes when I'm around people who have lots and lots of money and they kind of try to spare me from the acknowledgement that they're rich.

[390] That's one of the only times I'm like, oh, do you feel like your money makes you better than me because you're protecting me from the fact that you have money?

[391] But I'm glad you have money.

[392] That's great.

[393] Good for you.

[394] Yeah.

[395] It's like, I'm not threatened by it unless the implication is like, oh, I don't want him to know because he'll feel like such a little gutters snipe, you know?

[396] And then I'm like, wait a second.

[397] One of my things that I've been doing for a while, well, you've experienced this, Sona, is I go way the other way as a bit.

[398] And so Sona, I remember when she got, you moved in, it was with you and Carrie.

[399] It was me and Carrie got an apartment.

[400] Like a small apartment in, it was very nice in Santa Monica, but a small apartment that my assistant and her, as someone else who worked on the show, a producer on the show got.

[401] And I remember coming in and I was like, this is beautiful.

[402] Is it okay if I go upstairs?

[403] And she, and someone was like, Conan.

[404] You know there's no upstairs.

[405] And I would actually.

[406] Like, oh, come on, seriously.

[407] But anyway, at least let me see the screening room.

[408] And she'd be like, you're a dick.

[409] And I'd say, I just want to check it out.

[410] Where's the gym?

[411] Where's the gym?

[412] I just want to see the gym for a second.

[413] She'd be like, all right, fuck you.

[414] And I'd say, and then I'd say, like, okay, if you don't want me to see it.

[415] Is it okay if I just go and check out the indoor pool?

[416] But it was the only.

[417] And it's when you, sometimes you'll, like, get your wallet and you'll just sneeze and all this cash.

[418] That's the hardest.

[419] The hardest I've ever seen Adam Sacks.

[420] He's in the room with us right now.

[421] And Adam Sacks is a very genteel fellow.

[422] Adam hadn't known me that long.

[423] And what I had done is I was talking about, I was preparing, but he didn't know.

[424] But I was just saying like, look, I don't know.

[425] I think I just feel like I'm anyone else here.

[426] And I don't really feel like I'm any different than I was in high school.

[427] I went to a public high school.

[428] My parents didn't have, you know, much money.

[429] And we just grew up in a middle class house.

[430] And I just, I don't think.

[431] And I just think I haven't changed.

[432] And then I just think I haven't changed.

[433] I sneezed very convincingly and loudly.

[434] And what I had done is I had had a money clip filled with money.

[435] And I had rolled it up and hid in it in my hand.

[436] I went, and this wad of giant wad of money came up my nose and shot onto the floor.

[437] And I was like, oh damn it.

[438] Like every time I sneeze, a lot of money comes out.

[439] And Adam covered his...

[440] What were you, what you say?

[441] Oh my God.

[442] Crying now, just remembering it.

[443] He was crying.

[444] I was shrieking.

[445] I saw out of my chair.

[446] I was yelling, covering my face.

[447] It was, and we had only known each other maybe for a couple months at that point.

[448] Yeah, yeah, you really didn't know me. And it's, and so sometimes, like, my comfort zone is something that's, that's so insanely over the top, Warner Brothers cartoony wrong that it's okay.

[449] I think that's very.

[450] Does that make sense?

[451] Yeah.

[452] Yeah, also, it's funny that you said that he snorts money because that.

[453] It makes sense.

[454] It's clear now that I do.

[455] Yeah.

[456] This is like, look, this is, again, you're not going to like this.

[457] because it's more, but I was thinking a lot.

[458] I was very excited to come here, pick me girl.

[459] And another thing that I was thinking about, too, is that you, I feel like I've met a lot of people in comedy who are, you know, kind of lampoon, very cerebral, very smart, and often a bit aggressive.

[460] Right.

[461] And one thing that I've noticed over the course of the time that I've been watching you is it's really interesting.

[462] Like, I think sometimes people are so smart and kind of acidic, get more so over time.

[463] But you've somehow, I feel like you, you.

[464] you're like warmer and warmer.

[465] Not that you weren't like warm before, but I feel like I think I was a little scared the first time I met you because I was like, this guy's funnier than me and smarter.

[466] And I'm like, I'm better educated and it's very like brainy and fast.

[467] And now I feel like I could be kind of a little bit of a puddle or a little sloppy and not feel scared.

[468] I never, I never thought that I will say that I am happier at this stage of my life than I, than I was at, we've talked about this, but my 20s, 30s, 40s, just so much pressure all the time.

[469] And I like to think that I was, you know, a good person and nice to people, but I definitely am a happier person now than I, than I was then, because you, I don't think over, you just think, okay, this is who I am and I'm doing the best I can.

[470] You come to this, you settle a little bit in this really nice way.

[471] Also, I think smart is way overrated.

[472] I agree.

[473] Smart is so overrated.

[474] And sometimes I went to, you know, this school where there were tons of, quote, smart people and who were much smarter than me. And I've, in my life, in my career in show business, I've met tons of people who are smarter than me. They probably have a much higher IQ.

[475] I just, I don't credit smart with a lot.

[476] Did you feel like you were more dazzled by intelligence when you were younger?

[477] Or were you always kind of skeptical of it?

[478] No, I think I probably was more impressed.

[479] You're more impressed with a lot of things when you're younger.

[480] When you're younger, you're impressed with a lot of things.

[481] And then I always would see other people and think, oh, man, I really want to be.

[482] I put everybody else on a pedestal.

[483] And as you know, you degrade yourself when you do that.

[484] And I was constantly not thinking that much of myself and thinking that these other people were gods.

[485] And I also think that reverence isolates both the revered and the whatever, the reverencer.

[486] I don't know, the reverer.

[487] Like, because, man, you're not smart at all.

[488] I see.

[489] I just realized I'm so much smart.

[490] smarter than you.

[491] No, don't push me out of here.

[492] Don't push me out.

[493] He's hitting me. Did you guys hear that, the reverence, sir?

[494] Oh, no. I knew it was going to happen.

[495] I knew it was going to happen.

[496] I posed as a warm guy that wanted contact with you.

[497] Do you think I wanted to meet you outside and lead your car in?

[498] No. I don't, I think other people are probably smarter than me. he bought it I'm the smartest fucking man that ever lived sorry that was crazy what a weird sting what a weird sting operation just to lure people in with like a promise of not being smart someone told me I of all these quotes I can't remember who told me but someone told me fame is a mask that destroys the face and I think oh I know that one who said that I think it was Everald of me maybe but anyway someone said it and and uh No, I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure you're pretty sure it was Kaya Gerber.

[499] That's what it was.

[500] It was Kaya Gerber.

[501] So there's a variation that says celebrity is a mask that eats.

[502] Yeah, eats into the face.

[503] John Updike.

[504] Yeah, John Updike.

[505] But anyway.

[506] And he had, I mean, his face was just riddled with sores and open wounds.

[507] Because he got too famous.

[508] It was really antibiotic resistant Mercer that ate his face.

[509] And he blamed it.

[510] He blamed it on his famous an author.

[511] It's like, you're not that.

[512] You're fine.

[513] No one's recognizing you.

[514] He went around.

[515] You know Freddie Kruger.

[516] Later in life, he wore a Freddie Kruger mask.

[517] And went around and went, of course, you know, I'm John Updick.

[518] I wrote the Rabbit series and I can't take off his mask.

[519] I do want to say, no joke.

[520] Have you met?

[521] What is happening between you today?

[522] Just just look at me like, did you catch that joke?

[523] I went down a John Updike rabbit hole as Freddy, and I look over and someone was looking at me, like she was watching a man go underwater for the ninth time, never to return.

[524] Oh, look at him.

[525] He's drowning.

[526] He felt like he was looking to see like, hey, I knew.

[527] Yeah, yeah.

[528] I usually give him whatever validation he's looking for, but sometimes I just don't and sometimes I just stare at.

[529] John Updike, wearing a mask showing up at a party.

[530] He wasn't doing it for you.

[531] I just want to say, I actually, through this show, Matt Kaya Gerber, who is like way more literate than me by a factor of about a million.

[532] Well, yeah, she was in my mind because I just watched an episode of your show.

[533] I'm going to bring up your show now because you just did.

[534] And then we can go on and talk about other stuff.

[535] But you have done this show called In the Know and you did it with Mike Judge.

[536] It is really funny and really well done.

[537] And I think you've made six of them.

[538] Yeah, they're six.

[539] Okay, I watched the first one before you got here, and I was like, oh, I'm totally down with this show.

[540] It takes place at NPR, and this is going to reel you in.

[541] It's NPR.

[542] Zach is the main character who's completely full of himself, named Lauren.

[543] Yeah, Lauren Caspian.

[544] Lauren Caspian, who is the, I think, third or fourth most popular NPR correspondent.

[545] Probably fourth, but claims third.

[546] Yeah.

[547] And it's puppets.

[548] It's like, I want to almost stop motion, right?

[549] motion puppets and it's really funny it's it's so well written and it's it's so good and of course it's skewering a lot of the stuff that that I think needs skewering uh I mean so many things need skewering uh on on on both sides of the spectrum but it is so funny I was watching it I was thinking this makes me really happy but one of the parts that I really like is that your character in his interviews the interviews are on zoom so it's all puppets but then when you're talking to whoever one of your guests are, it's really them on a Zoom.

[550] And so Kaya Gerber happened to be in your episode.

[551] She was great and very game.

[552] I mean, it's interesting.

[553] I've never done stop motion before, but it's the people who did the Guillermo del Toro Pinocchio.

[554] So these are like the best stop motion animators in the world.

[555] It's crazy to see it because one thing I didn't realize when we started, but I guess I feel like, you know, people have a tendency to kind of winnow themselves down to one thing or to winnow each other down to one thing, this kind of reductive identity thing where it's like you are this one thing, or you're this one thing you did or one thing you believe, et cetera.

[556] And so something that I always look for in stories and try to include is the kind of contradictory bird's nest of a person, you know.

[557] And one thing that's so cool about stop motion is because each character is played by 30 different animators plus the voice actor, there's a kind of multifacetedness that's bred into the process.

[558] So, You get all of these different people's little ticks and imaginations and facial features and stuff in the process.

[559] I thought that was really fun.

[560] I'd never experienced that before.

[561] Also, it was also created by the Brandon Gardner, who's my writing partner and who listens to this show religiously.

[562] Well, I thought Brandon Gardner was really the driving force behind it.

[563] Okay.

[564] Well, let's not, you know, let's not get carried away because I clearly, no, no, he just felt like he's the amazing human being.

[565] Yeah, no, he's like a giant, powerful Evan Rude motor shooting the boat forward.

[566] and then you and my judge have like little tiny straws that you're dipping in the water but he's also a great guy though I love him.

[567] He knows a podcast when he hears it.

[568] Okay, well I mean I don't think we're just like a pointless ancillary rowing team on the back of his catamaran.

[569] I think you're a, you guys are attractive appendages on a powerful, powerful engine that is, what's his name again?

[570] No, but one of the things But it's something that I'm really looking forward to seeing more in the show is you and one of your coworkers are always trying to out woke and out PC each other.

[571] And it makes for really good comedy because you will be saying, well, there's an unhoused person.

[572] And everyone's very sanctimonious.

[573] And then she's accusing you of being insensitive because you didn't use the latest term.

[574] And I thought, this is comedy that needs to be done right now.

[575] Well, you know, it's funny.

[576] In the neighborhood where we're recording this, I guess a couple of years ago, I was walking around and it's kind of like a Tony neighborhood.

[577] And I passed a house that probably must cost like $4 million or something.

[578] And in the front yard, there was a sign that said defund the police.

[579] And then right next to it was an ADT home security decal that advertised that they have armed guards who are on patrols.

[580] And I was like defund the police because you have like hired mercenaries who are like.

[581] And I was like with shoot to kill order.

[582] Exactly.

[583] And then I felt very smug about it.

[584] And then I went to go get them tiger and ordered like a whatever, $19 matcha and was like my own hellish version of the same person I was just looking down on.

[585] So I just think there's like so much.

[586] Sorry, I'm spitting.

[587] There's so much like, you know, the kind of cosmetic progressive ideology where it's like it's a personal enhancement as opposed to a commitment that you're making to action.

[588] You know, it's a way of beautifying yourself, but you never really walk.

[589] the walk.

[590] I mean, I think about that all the time of, like, how if you look at my credit card statements and you were to look at my journal entries, there's a terrible disparity between what I supposedly care about and what I swipe my card on.

[591] Sure, sure.

[592] Is the plan to make more than one season, you're going to wait and see.

[593] Yeah, I guess it depends if they, if the network wants to make more.

[594] But we've been daydreaming about it.

[595] I mean, at this point, we're just trying to kind get it out into the world and that's been preoccupying but i wouldn't rule it out yeah well that's a boring answer yeah that's a terrible terrible answer can we get your partner in here can i do something yeah if i'm gonna text brandon let's talk about brandon more can i just say something this was intended to be an interview with brandon oh shit but he is so in demand we couldn't get him yeah damn it brand and uh there was just no getting him so he's uh i guess on some party with with Kaya Gerber and Sia and everyone else who's named.

[596] Yeah.

[597] That's a cool party.

[598] It's just the three of them, though.

[599] Just the three of them.

[600] And it's in a very large cheesecake factory that they bought out and it's just, it's empty.

[601] Oh, man, I want to go.

[602] I love a cheesecake factory.

[603] They have so many choices.

[604] I really do.

[605] Can I tell you, though, I made a reservation at the cheesecake factory once.

[606] I showed up and they were like, the way is 45 minutes.

[607] I was like, oh, no, no, I have a reservation.

[608] And she said, no, that's just, that's just an estimate.

[609] What?

[610] And it's like, what does that mean?

[611] So the reservations at Cheesecake Factory are a lie and a fraud.

[612] You have to always wait.

[613] Let's get that word out.

[614] Wait a minute.

[615] I have a confession.

[616] What?

[617] My stepbrother is a regional manager for.

[618] Is that true?

[619] Yeah, Cheesecake Factory.

[620] I haven't you ever brought in cheesecake.

[621] He lives in Dallas.

[622] God.

[623] They hate that.

[624] They would melt on the way.

[625] I don't think he works for them anymore.

[626] But good.

[627] No, we're not picking a fight with cheesecake.

[628] I'm telling you.

[629] I'm the Bob Woodward of the.

[630] Cheesecake Factory.

[631] I'm going to be on Zach's side for a second.

[632] I think if you tell people you've got a reservation, you've got to honor that.

[633] Of course.

[634] Now, look, I respect that Cheesecake Factory.

[635] I've never seen a menu like that.

[636] It's a menu where you think of something in your head.

[637] If it's not on that menu, I'll blow my brains out.

[638] Literally, like, uh, an alarm clock covered in caramel that sits on a blince and then there's a bolognais sauce.

[639] Page 17.

[640] I'd like the buffalo wings and a better relationship with my father That's page 9 and page 32 I once asked him if it was possible If I came in and theoretically ordered One of everything on the menu Could you even produce that much food In enough time and they said that they could?

[641] I don't know if this Do you think that's true?

[642] They have a 3D printer back there And they're just constantly And giant pneumatic tubes firing foods from all around the world at hyper speed.

[643] You were quite young when you started doing improv.

[644] Yeah, I was 16.

[645] I wanted to be a jazz musician when I was a kid.

[646] Friendship over.

[647] Friendship begun.

[648] There we do.

[649] I just checked you off for friendship over.

[650] No, go ahead.

[651] What kind of instrument?

[652] I played trumpet.

[653] And the way I got hooked on jazz, like all great jazz musicians, was a CD -ROM video game about the history of jazz.

[654] I thought you could say heroin.

[655] My parents got me. It was called Living.

[656] Jazz.

[657] What?

[658] Yep.

[659] And it was hosted.

[660] That's how you got into jazz?

[661] Not hanging out in smoky clubs?

[662] Like all the greats, it was, I switched from Incarta to Living Jazz.

[663] And Living Jazz was like, had sort of the format of a first person shooter, but you were totally, you're totally passive, but you're wandering through the history of jazz.

[664] That's the way it works.

[665] That's fantastic.

[666] Yeah.

[667] So you're like, I'm going to go to Storyville and watch Louis Armstrong.

[668] I'm going to go to Chicago after the Great Migration.

[669] Oh, there's Lester Young.

[670] Wait a minute, that's incredible.

[671] Do you ever get to shoot up the place?

[672] That would be amazing if you play enough living jazz.

[673] You just get to be, like, what do they call it?

[674] At one point, I wanted to transition to Grand Theft Auto.

[675] That's all.

[676] Like, there's a lot of jazz history, but then at a certain point, you notice, like, I think I'm in a strip club.

[677] That's so funny.

[678] I just hit Ele Fitzgerald with a baseball fan.

[679] people are really mad at me online so that's how I got into jazz and then I wanted to be a jazz musician but then I got braces and I couldn't play anymore because it messed up my ambusher but my parents took me because I had to get braces and they took me to Dr. Chops who was this...

[680] Come on.

[681] Was that a jazz musician?

[682] Yeah.

[683] Well, he was a jazz dentist.

[684] Okay.

[685] And he was...

[686] He's Winter Marcellus's dentist.

[687] And we went to visit him and said, you know, is there anything that can be done?

[688] He said, no, but this toothpaste is $30 and you should buy that.

[689] And so we did.

[690] And then I went back home.

[691] And the guy who gave me braces, I feel like I've talked about this at some point, but he had a life -size mural of himself in a lab coat, putting braces on the animals in the jungle.

[692] And then he also had a portrait of himself dressed as a dentist, working on himself dressed as Superman.

[693] So this guy was a fascinating character.

[694] Yeah, I mean, we've got to talk to him, too.

[695] We've got to get him in here.

[696] I feel like anytime I allude to someone, you would prefer that they were here.

[697] I would just say anyone, anyone but.

[698] But no, but this is crazy to me, which is that you get braces and they can't make a special mouthpiece that goes over your, or they were just trying to discourage you from playing the trumpet.

[699] Maybe that was it.

[700] My parents got tired of it.

[701] But I would take pliers and rip out the water.

[702] wire because I would get so frustrated and I wanted to play.

[703] But then I just sort of gave up and I had all this free time where I used to be practicing trumpet.

[704] And so my brother had gone to college in New York and he'd gone to an early askat at UCB, the Upbrate Citizens Brigade and he told me about it.

[705] And I thought, oh, that sounds fun.

[706] So I would take the train up to New York from Pennsylvania where I grew up and I took classes.

[707] And back then, the upright Citizensbrate Citizens Brigade was in this kind of dingy X -strip club.

[708] where you remember this.

[709] Oh, yeah, definitely.

[710] Yeah, they, and they had cleaned out.

[711] He remembers the strip club.

[712] Yeah, they cleaned out a strip club.

[713] They cleaned out the strip club and, yeah, turned it into a small black box theater.

[714] That's right.

[715] But they would still sometimes find condoms and stuff because I guess it was a house of ill repute.

[716] And then also, I guess there was like a mix of, someone told me that there was like, I guess for some reason the strip club was popular with his seeds.

[717] So sometimes like these acidic guys would come in and like sit down thinking a strip show was about to start.

[718] But then they'd just be stuck in, like, Brett Galman's one -man show or whatever.

[719] Yeah.

[720] And, like, you'd just end up, like, watching alt comedy for an hour and they couldn't leave.

[721] So just the idea of, like, these, like, Hasidic dudes just watch.

[722] It makes me laugh.

[723] Anyway.

[724] Yeah, I performed.

[725] I did some stuff with UCB back in the day.

[726] And I remember going down to that theater.

[727] And they would do a thing where you'd just go out and do a monologue based on something someone shouted out in the audience.

[728] And I remembered finding it incredibly fun and therapeutic.

[729] Did you?

[730] Have you ever had the.

[731] experience of over share.

[732] Have you ever done like a monologue or an interview or something and then had that kind of vulnerability hangover thing where you're like, oh, I didn't want to talk about that, but I did.

[733] I mean, I talk so much.

[734] I probably have, but I don't know that I've ever come to you, Matt, and said, I mean, take out that part where I talked about my younger sister beating me. That was exactly the thing you asked me to take out.

[735] I was just embarrassed that my younger sister could beat me so easily.

[736] No, no, I don't remember.

[737] And throughout the course of your life, too.

[738] It's not.

[739] It wasn't an isolated incident.

[740] She was three and I was 15.

[741] And she totally just was hitting me through walls and then following me into that room and then punching me through another wall.

[742] Yeah, I don't think so.

[743] I don't think so.

[744] Do you?

[745] Sometimes.

[746] Do you guys have that?

[747] Oh, daily.

[748] Really?

[749] Yeah, I think so.

[750] Sona has admitted to many crimes that she committed.

[751] I used to shoplift.

[752] Really?

[753] Yeah.

[754] And my parents were whole.

[755] horrified.

[756] But can I ask you about that?

[757] Because so I have so many questions about that, but was it the thrill of shoplifting or was it like you wanted the item?

[758] Was it you wanted to shoplift or you wanted the thing?

[759] Like I, I mean, the first thing I stole was a 45 cent sticker book from Sanrio.

[760] And I could have, I could have got that.

[761] I could have afforded it at that time.

[762] But I just was like, I'm just going to put it in my body.

[763] And scrunchies.

[764] And scrunchies and hair things.

[765] And I would steal things and I would put them on my head like a hair band.

[766] And I would walk in front of the, uh, customer service reps. And that was a thrill.

[767] But I never, like, stole a bunch of stuff and ran out.

[768] When I met Sona, she was running down Olympic Boulevard holding a Samsung flat screen, a very large one.

[769] And then I robbed you.

[770] That's right.

[771] Yeah, I beat you with it.

[772] And I took everything you had.

[773] You smashed it over my head, ruining the flat screen.

[774] And then took, robbed me of $8, which really was stupid because the flat screen was worth so much more.

[775] But, yeah, I'm one of those people that.

[776] The way I was raised was someone's always, like God is always watching.

[777] So every now and then I would put gum in my mouth and I would be walking along and crinkle up the tiny little trident wrapper into a tiny little ball and just sort of drop it on the sidewalk and keep walking.

[778] And then I would stop and walk back and pick it up.

[779] And it's not that I'm the best person in the world.

[780] It's just that I thought that I can't have that hanging over me. And I had a therapist tell me once years ago, you have the largest conscience of any, which is probably a shock to you guys, but he said, you have the largest conscience of anyone I've ever talked to.

[781] So those things, the idea of taking even, you know, stealing one Alka -Seltzer from a drugstore, not because I'm better than you, because I'm superior to you.

[782] Oh, okay, okay.

[783] It's an important clarification.

[784] I mean, it's a really interesting thing.

[785] Like, I think there was a store where I grew up where if you stole, they would either call the police or they would take a picture, of you with the item that you stole and then they would put that picture up in the grocery store.

[786] So it's this sort of humiliation.

[787] It also feels a little bit like Salem, Massachusetts 1650.

[788] That kind of, this is the way we will shame people and then they will behave or putting people in stocks.

[789] You know, it's a, it's a public humiliation, which is something that maybe used to work.

[790] I don't know.

[791] We should do more of it.

[792] No, okay.

[793] I thought you were saying that's not the way to go.

[794] No, I think people should be shamed.

[795] You're big.

[796] You saw the crucible that play about the, yeah.

[797] And you were like, that's aspirational.

[798] I thought this, I thought the crucible by Arthur Miller was a how -to.

[799] I did.

[800] I said, okay, I'm down with that.

[801] Shame on ye.

[802] Shame.

[803] Remember what I tried to dunk you in water to see if you were a witch?

[804] Yes.

[805] And all this hair product floated to the surface.

[806] Oh, come on.

[807] Well, you use a lot.

[808] You use a lot.

[809] I have curly hair, dude.

[810] I know, but various waxes and oils.

[811] Come on.

[812] No, what do you mean?

[813] It's frizzy if I don't.

[814] Why do you have to bring that up?

[815] I don't know.

[816] I think there's no shame in it.

[817] I think someone told me, I wonder if the shame thing works as it's during because someone told me that, again, these are like unsighted, probably bullshit stories.

[818] But that shoplifting in 19th century London was like a big epidemic.

[819] So they made it a hanging offense to shoplift.

[820] And the place, so they have these big public hangings and those public hangings, was where there was the most pick -pocketing and stuff.

[821] Yeah, because everyone's, yeah, it was a great place to, and also, I think, I mean, that was back when you could get shipped off to Australia for, you know, taking a loaf of bread.

[822] That's it.

[823] If you were starving, yeah, and then you're, you know, boo -hoo, Australia.

[824] Have you been to Australia?

[825] It's amazing there.

[826] I wish I had been shipped off.

[827] Yeah, instead, we went to America and went to Central Massachusetts.

[828] Conning, come back.

[829] Come back.

[830] Hey, buddy.

[831] Come back, Conan.

[832] This is our country, too, man. Oh, hey, hey, sorry, man. And I blacked out for a second.

[833] I'm just saying if they had sent me to Australia, which is where we should have been sent.

[834] You would have surfed?

[835] No, yeah.

[836] I'd have like a V -shaped torso right now.

[837] I'd have like a six -pack.

[838] I'd look like a Hemsworth if I had gone.

[839] I would.

[840] Yeah, I would.

[841] Yeah, I would.

[842] Yeah, I would.

[843] I would have lips instead of this keeping gash for a mouth.

[844] I'd have eyes that were the right size instead of these beety little rat orbs.

[845] Oh, my God.

[846] They should have shipped me up.

[847] to Australia.

[848] But no, we had to go to Sturbridge.

[849] Oh, my God.

[850] I've never heard the word Sturbridge with so much Phantom.

[851] I know.

[852] Sturbridge.

[853] Shout out to Sturbridge.

[854] It's a friend of lovely place.

[855] My dad told me once.

[856] This was so nice.

[857] Because I made this short film that's sort of about a therapist.

[858] He's a therapist.

[859] And he said this thing to me once that I thought was so sweet, where he was like, he said, I know you love me and you can have it all.

[860] He was like, you can tell a story about anything.

[861] from our family from my vantage point and I trust you to handle it humanely.

[862] That's so sweet.

[863] That is my, I did not get that chit from my parents.

[864] My one message my mother made very clear that I that I understood and got was I, the O 'Brien's were to be told of as lace curtain, respectable Irish people who, you know, were upstanding members of the community and my whole career has been tearing that down.

[865] Well, that's so interesting.

[866] Like, my, I have an uncle who got into researching the family's history.

[867] And I guess, like, my great grandmother came to escape the czar and the pogroms and stuff in Russia.

[868] And I think she was a sex worker in the Lower East Side.

[869] She was by herself.

[870] She was a teenager.

[871] And then she married a Jewish gangster and a jewel thief who eventually got killed in Chicago.

[872] But she divorced him first.

[873] And, like, they had a very amazing.

[874] It's crazy, right?

[875] And then it's so funny how you just try to.

[876] sort of wash the stink of the old country off you as fast as possible, because then my grandfather changed the name from Wodanski to Woods, started talking with kind of a fake British accent, apparently, smoked a pipe, and you just try to kind of ape this respectability as fast as you can.

[877] I thought you were a Protestant earl.

[878] Like, I really, I thought you were landed gentry.

[879] Mission accomplished.

[880] From Oxfordshire.

[881] I swear to God, I was like, oh, they're growing pretty tall there in Oxfordshire.

[882] I could talk to you for seven hours.

[883] I really could, but I have to respect your time because you're a man with things to do.

[884] Also, we got Brandon coming in.

[885] Oh, God damn it.

[886] Oh, yes!

[887] Brand done!

[888] Choke on it, Brandon.

[889] Shoke on it, baby.

[890] Let me just mention again, in the know, it's a really funny show.

[891] It's out now, and it is on Peacock.

[892] It is very unusual.

[893] It's original.

[894] and it's really funny.

[895] It's really funny.

[896] So check it out.

[897] I will carry that with me for a long time.

[898] Thanks for saying that.

[899] Well, I meant it.

[900] It came from my heart and from part of my brain that has things, the control of the voice.

[901] What's happening?

[902] Oh, my God.

[903] Those are dying words?

[904] Yeah, we're witnessing in real time.

[905] Oh, my God.

[906] I was trying to say.

[907] I'm trying to say.

[908] What I'm trying to say is it came from the heart, but then I also wanted to credit the speech portion of my brain.

[909] Because when people say it came from the heart, I'm like, yeah, okay, but without the speech portion of your brain, uh, what the fuck?

[910] So I think the heart gets too much credit.

[911] So anyway, from your mouth?

[912] From my mouth.

[913] That's coming from your mouth.

[914] That caping hole with no lips.

[915] Sturbridge!

[916] Sturbish!

[917] Thank you, sir.

[918] Thank you.

[919] And I want to tell you what we were just talking about in the studio.

[920] And I insisted, let's turn on I said let's activate the microphones so Eduardo turn them on this is what we were just talking about I made a declarations and I'm pretty sure I could take anybody in this room in a physical fight except I said Blay I don't think I could take you because you work out all the time Thank you very much I don't think I could but and then everyone started to get into it like no you couldn't you couldn't take Eduardo but you said more than that you said I'd fight you without my hands yes well I know that you're a huge And I still think he'd win.

[921] Yeah.

[922] No, I think you're a huge, you're a huge soccer fan.

[923] You love Lionel Messi.

[924] It's Leonel, by the way.

[925] And I just think you're probably like, in the back of your mind, think I can't use my hands.

[926] I've got to get him with my feet.

[927] And then I just lay you out, you know?

[928] And then Adam, I'm sorry, but I just, it would be over very quickly.

[929] I disagree.

[930] I think Adam's the quiet prize fighter, you know?

[931] Have you been in many physical fights?

[932] Very few.

[933] Very few.

[934] Very few, say.

[935] Sona, I think, rightfully said that she couldn't see me getting, like, working up enough rage for the fight.

[936] Yeah, I think, first of all, you remind me, and the listener is probably thinking, well, we can't picture this Adam Sacks.

[937] Imagine a milder Michael Sarah.

[938] Is that fair?

[939] Like, even milder and not as strong.

[940] I don't know.

[941] Like Michael Sarah is, like, on steroids compared to.

[942] No, no. Adam's tall and lies?

[943] I think, do you want to arm wrestle across the table?

[944] Oh, yes.

[945] Come on.

[946] No, I can't.

[947] This rotator cuff.

[948] Oh, really?

[949] I'd like to see this.

[950] My money's on this guy right here.

[951] Well, wait a minute.

[952] Whoever wins an arm wrestling struggle does not win the fight.

[953] No, it is a one indicator of strength.

[954] It doesn't mean I would beat you in a fight, but it would mean I'd beat you in a single, you know, feet of strength.

[955] Well, this thing's in the way.

[956] No. But listen.

[957] But listen, let's keep the conversation going for a bit first.

[958] Okay, and then we'll see if this so -called test of fighting aptitude and it gets us there.

[959] You know, so every time you're in a stressful situation or let's say you're walking down the street with your wife and some thug stands in the way and says, give me you money.

[960] You're going to say, will arm wrestle and see who gets my goal?

[961] Is that what you'll say?

[962] It's, I mean, it came to mind.

[963] We can figure out other ways to test our, you know, piece of string.

[964] I fight you.

[965] But you're blindfolded.

[966] I mean, I can't do that, you know, miced up.

[967] It's easier to sit at the table.

[968] And what about now, Matt, what?

[969] When you see you coming after me, I know you're agist and stuff, but come on.

[970] I mean, look at this guy.

[971] No, you look great.

[972] You're super fit for your age.

[973] And I want to say this.

[974] The only thing I've got going in my corner is a desperate need to prove something to you, my father figure.

[975] Yes.

[976] And so that might be enough to take me over the top.

[977] Also, I'm betting just because I know you got a lot of flea markets and you love to buy weird things.

[978] I bet you have a Flemish suit of armor at home.

[979] And probably some kind of antique brass knuckle or a girl with a knife cane.

[980] You have all kinds of weapons ironically.

[981] What's an ironic?

[982] Oh, you know, like a bumbershoot that has a little...

[983] That's what I just said.

[984] A little knife that comes out.

[985] That's what I literally just said.

[986] I know, but it comes out...

[987] But one that has like a James Bond...

[988] That's what I just said.

[989] You didn't say one that has a little knife that comes out.

[990] Did you?

[991] I did.

[992] Did he say that?

[993] Oh, I think I would lose this fight.

[994] I wouldn't even know I was in a fight.

[995] I'm telling you, as my body grows stronger and it does every day, ladies.

[996] I think my mind is going.

[997] I didn't hear you say that.

[998] But then again, I was yelling at you and I wasn't really listening.

[999] You need your mind.

[1000] You can't just be fleet of foot.

[1001] You need your mind in a fight, you know?

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] And coordination.

[1004] You have no coordination.

[1005] Let's get to the bigger thing.

[1006] And I think Sona could take you.

[1007] I can easily take you.

[1008] And you know I could take you.

[1009] You know, I do have the rage.

[1010] I will say this.

[1011] An angry Sona beats everyone in this room.

[1012] Oh, yeah.

[1013] I think we're all agreed.

[1014] And I've seen you when your blood is up.

[1015] Yeah.

[1016] And you are the Kalee.

[1017] It's insane.

[1018] The dragons, the whole thing.

[1019] You're just.

[1020] You don't have, yes, you are a strong person.

[1021] And I have a lot of inner.

[1022] rage.

[1023] You do, but you also, you don't have very much coordination.

[1024] And I think you'd be doing a lot of bits.

[1025] You'd be putting the pen and be like, oh, mustache pen.

[1026] Yes, yes.

[1027] I would do bits as I fought, which I think is very impressive.

[1028] I managed to do bits when I fight people.

[1029] I don't think that is impressive.

[1030] And I think you get beaten up.

[1031] Unless it's a distracting tactic.

[1032] Oh, it wouldn't be distracting.

[1033] It's a lot of me using glasses.

[1034] If I have a pen, I make it a mustache or I make it like, oh, I'm a walrus with one with one tusk.

[1035] I'm the walrus with one tusk, you know.

[1036] There's only one way to decide this, and that is right now.

[1037] Fight Club.

[1038] Battle Royals, the six of us.

[1039] Why don't you guys go right now?

[1040] Okay, so.

[1041] What are you doing?

[1042] Trying to swing at you.

[1043] Already, I feel like I don't know anything about arm wrestling technique, but I can tell it's not right.

[1044] I know nothing about arm wrestling.

[1045] All right.

[1046] And I don't think it's a chest of strength.

[1047] All right.

[1048] On your marks.

[1049] And we hold these hands.

[1050] Wait, what are you doing?

[1051] What are you doing?

[1052] What are you doing?

[1053] Matt reached over and held my other.

[1054] This is over -the -top rules.

[1055] If we don't have the little joysticks.

[1056] Wait, what?

[1057] But why did you hold my hand?

[1058] This is what you do.

[1059] Hey, do you want to get one milkshake and two straws?

[1060] Hey, how about we both start on different ends of a strand of spaghetti and move our way out of the middle?

[1061] Have you people never wrestled with someone you loved dearly and wanted to get closer to?

[1062] Can I say something else?

[1063] Sona, give me your hand.

[1064] He held my hand and he did a little bit of that.

[1065] There was a little bit of a rub.

[1066] No, you do this?

[1067] No, that's on the side.

[1068] That's not in the middle.

[1069] That's on the side.

[1070] That's blocking.

[1071] A disagreement has broken out in chess club is what's happening.

[1072] This is the weirdest.

[1073] My microphone is over here.

[1074] What are you doing with this one?

[1075] Wait, hold on, hold on.

[1076] Here we go, ready?

[1077] Ready?

[1078] Yeah.

[1079] When?

[1080] Okay, but, ah, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[1081] Wait a minute.

[1082] You're on this side of the table pushing that way.

[1083] Gordley won easily.

[1084] No, but you saw what he did.

[1085] Oh, let's do this side of the table.

[1086] There's no way.

[1087] Well, let's switch places then, like the arm wrestling.

[1088] No, just stay there, but get here.

[1089] This is chaos.

[1090] Here we go, ready?

[1091] Wait, no. When?

[1092] No. One to one.

[1093] One to one.

[1094] One to one.

[1095] Hold his other hand, so.

[1096] Oh, come on, I'm not doing shit.

[1097] And go.

[1098] Here you go.

[1099] He's using.

[1100] Left out his arm.

[1101] Oh, wait.

[1102] Go.

[1103] You okay?

[1104] What happened?

[1105] What the fuck's wrong with you?

[1106] What the fuck is wrong with you?

[1107] Can't you arm wrestle?

[1108] Oh my God, look at that.

[1109] He broke my skin.

[1110] Yeah, Here's the thing.

[1111] You're the saddest arm wrestling.

[1112] Look, when I said I would win, what I'm telling you is I would win.

[1113] I would use anything in the room to win.

[1114] Yeah, you know what?

[1115] You would.

[1116] I think you would.

[1117] I think you're the best, like, cheater.

[1118] Yeah, that's true.

[1119] cheating?

[1120] Is it cheating when Jason Bourne uses something in the kitchen when the Russian attacks him and beats him?

[1121] That's not cheating.

[1122] He does use a pen, but he uses the pointy nib and you just took like the blunt, curvy end.

[1123] Because I didn't.

[1124] Look at that.

[1125] Man, I didn't want to hurt you.

[1126] Do you realize if I'd use the Sharp?

[1127] I thought about that.

[1128] You did.

[1129] You could have killed me. I would like, my dream is that all of you attacked me at once.

[1130] That's my dream too.

[1131] I think we all have the same dream.

[1132] You all attack me at once, and then I just become this, like, whirligig, this red tornado.

[1133] There's potatoes in there and fists, and then there's single shots of each of you flying up against the wall.

[1134] And Eduardo, you hit the wall, and then you go, like, you hear birds, and you slowly sink to the bottom.

[1135] And then you hit the wall, and your hair has turned jet black, Blay.

[1136] Guys, he's begging us to attack him.

[1137] This is our one chance to take this man. I'm giving you, listen, it doesn't even have to be now.

[1138] You can, you're allowed to attack me at any time.

[1139] I'm like Clousseau.

[1140] Yeah, I just want to, I love the idea.

[1141] Do you have to see it coming, or can we ninja style it?

[1142] He wants it, ninja.

[1143] Oh, I'd like to see you try, Eduardo.

[1144] I can hear you coming a mile away, muttering the latest soccer scores.

[1145] That's what you do, Eduardo.

[1146] That's what you do.

[1147] This is everybody down to it.

[1148] Arsenal two.

[1149] Two, that's a score?

[1150] Ridiculous Manchester One I always hear you before I see you I do think that when powered by rage or if I feel that my career is at stake then I become a whirligig Yeah but you don't I mean you don't feel that Like so when you don't feel those things You're not you're powerless Yeah I'd be killed quickly Yeah okay At least you know that Yeah I do feel like you And this is not a joke I do feel like there is some kind of superpower that activates when you're shooting a remote.

[1151] Yes.

[1152] Like, or we're doing a bit.

[1153] Like, we were, if I can say this, we were in Thailand, and it was a hundred and eight.

[1154] Well, that was a sex trip.

[1155] You don't talk about that.

[1156] Oh, you mean for the, for the new HBO Max show?

[1157] The new HBO Max show.

[1158] Oh, but don't talk about the other time we went to Thailand.

[1159] That really gets his rage.

[1160] Yeah.

[1161] The second time we went to Thailand.

[1162] It was 108 degrees.

[1163] And even people who live there were like, like, dying.

[1164] And not only did you outside do a whole.

[1165] kickboxing thing, like a very physical for, I think, like two hours.

[1166] You also, we went to a climbing gym and you climbed to the top.

[1167] Well, my thing is I've always been able to, if I think it's going to be funny, you can shoot me. I don't want to put this out there.

[1168] With a glass, with a fake bullet.

[1169] No, but if I think it's going to be funny, I can do things.

[1170] You can walk on water.

[1171] You will walk on water.

[1172] Well, no, that's making me Christlike.

[1173] I think I'm more of a Buddha.

[1174] All seeing, all knowing, omniscient, big belly.

[1175] I think that, yes, I need those kind of stakes.

[1176] Otherwise, yeah, I would collapse immediately.

[1177] Yeah, I think I'm a tissue man, a man made of tissue.

[1178] But let's see.

[1179] You're all welcome to attack me at any time.

[1180] We should attack you off camera, is what you're saying.

[1181] Or whatever you want to do, if you want to attack me. Would your brothers kick your ass?

[1182] First of all, that's just rude.

[1183] And secondly, yes.

[1184] yeah for sure Neil bigger than me much stronger than me but actually Luke and I together couldn't take Neil so we used to try and we were like these two small countries in the Ottoman Empire that banded together to try and take on you know a huge empire and he could still take us and he would just laugh and throw us around the room so I think maybe a secret to why I'm so hostile who can know who can never know Did you pick on Justin because he was so little?

[1185] I would never do that.

[1186] And Justin, if you're listening, my apologies for 15 years of hell.

[1187] I had to go to college, so I had to stop.

[1188] Oh, okay, okay, good.

[1189] No, I would play with Justin all the time.

[1190] He's our youngest.

[1191] But I would play, my games were insane.

[1192] I mean, he was like, it's like he was trapped with a madman.

[1193] So most, he would say, can we play cops and robbers?

[1194] And I'd say, sure.

[1195] And so I'd be the robber and he'd be the cop.

[1196] Then he'd, like, say, you're under arrest.

[1197] And I'd say, well, okay, I'm suing.

[1198] you now.

[1199] And he'd be like, what?

[1200] And I'd set up a table and say, you need to fill out these forms because I think you had no right.

[1201] And I think you avoided my constitutional rights.

[1202] And then I remembered it ended once with him.

[1203] I said, you have to go into this prison because you've been taken up the police force.

[1204] This is like 1981.

[1205] He said, you have to go into this prison.

[1206] And I said, you're the guy who shares a son with you as a robot who's there to spy on you.

[1207] And he He was like, what's happening?

[1208] I just want to play cops and robbers.

[1209] Oh, my God.

[1210] So that's, I mean...

[1211] And he's a lawyer now.

[1212] He's a lawyer now.

[1213] I think to fight those same injustices.

[1214] I love you, Justin, and I apologize.

[1215] I thought we were having fun.

[1216] I don't even know you, and I love you, Justin, and I sympathize, and I feel for you, and I apologize.

[1217] It's so funny, I had to leave my family, and I recreated one here, and I figured out a way to turn to do.

[1218] into a quasi business.

[1219] Yeah, I know.

[1220] And then just, oh, good, I can pick on these guys.

[1221] You're the Neil.

[1222] Yeah, not really.

[1223] All right, well, this was, I think we learned a lot.

[1224] I think we learned a lot here, which is, Gourley, you would fairly beat me arm wrestling.

[1225] I still think if it was a real fight, I could distract you.

[1226] I just don't think it's some memorabilia over there from the Nixon Museum and then I would just take your head off.

[1227] And I don't think it's worth it to arm wrestle unless you can hold hands.

[1228] So what's the point otherwise?

[1229] Get a little, give a little.

[1230] It's not weird.

[1231] Look it up, people.

[1232] That's how you grade school arm wrestle.

[1233] I don't know.

[1234] And he had like, it's weird.

[1235] It was really weird.

[1236] And it was tender.

[1237] But you know what I will say?

[1238] Can I say something?

[1239] No, that's what you use when you don't have the over -the -top joysticks.

[1240] You don't hold hands.

[1241] They've never held hands.

[1242] Sona.

[1243] He wanted to hold my hand.

[1244] Let it go.

[1245] You hold hands, you arm wrestle.

[1246] You see each other later.

[1247] You realize you're closer than you think.

[1248] You find out what's in common.

[1249] Okay.

[1250] And then you take a little.

[1251] It'll drive.

[1252] All right, I'm going to end it there.

[1253] Attack, it will.

[1254] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend with Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian and Matt Goorley.

[1255] Produced by me, Matt Goorley.

[1256] Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Nick Leow, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf.

[1257] Theme song by The White Stripes.

[1258] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

[1259] Take it away, Jimmy.

[1260] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent.

[1261] producer is Jennifer Samples.

[1262] Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.

[1263] Additional production support by Mars Melnick.

[1264] Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brick Con. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode.

[1265] Got a question for Conan?

[1266] Call the Team Coco hotline at 669 -587 -2847 and leave a message.

[1267] It too could be featured on a future episode.

[1268] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.