Now Is a Great Time to Invest in Silver

[0] Hello and welcome to the Stansberry Investor Hour.

[1] I'm Dan Ferris.

[2] I'm the editor of Extreme Value and The Ferris Report, both published by Stansberry Research.

[3] And I'm Corey McLaughlin, editor of the Stansberry Daily Digest.

[4] Today we talk with Benoit LaSalle, president and CEO of AYA Gold & Silver.

[5] I last spoke with Benoit last summer.

[6] at Rick Rule's annual conference in Florida.

[7] We had a wonderful conversation.

[8] We're going to cover some of those topics and a lot more.

[9] And I promise you, there's a lot in here that you've never heard before that you will find very, very interesting.

[10] So let's just get on with it.

[11] Let's talk with Benoit LaSalle.

[12] Let's do it right now.

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[21] Benoit, welcome to the show.

[22] Great to see you again.

[23] Thank you for inviting me. And yes, great to see you in this unbelievable time for Precious Metal.

[24] So I'm glad to be on the show with you.

[25] It is.

[26] So I think for our listeners' sake, you and I have talked about some of these things at Rick Rule's conference, maybe what, last year or the year before?

[27] I can't even remember.

[28] But we'll have to go through those again, because I want our listeners to get the full story on Aya Gold and Silver, your company.

[29] And I always, I have to start in one particular place, which is the place where you are mining, which is totally unexpected.

[30] When somebody said, well, yeah, they're in Morocco.

[31] I just thought, they're mining in Morocco?

[32] It was just totally unexpected.

[33] I didn't know Morocco was anything like a good mining district.

[34] But that's where you are, isn't it?

[35] And so the question becomes, why Morocco?

[36] Why Aya Gold and Silver?

[37] And why in Morocco?

[38] Well, you know, in mining, you want to be the first mover.

[39] You want to be there early.

[40] We were early in Burkina Faso.

[41] We did extremely well 25 years ago.

[42] Morocco had this law for 100 years that, you know, natural resources could not be owned by anybody else but by the state.

[43] or by the royal family and and so nobody has looked at morocco and it opened up 10 years ago when they decided to let people in and nobody really went in but one company which was aya which was put together by somebody before me And they obtain fantastic assets.

[44] The Zgunder Line is one of the best in the world.

[45] The Boumedzin Project is probably one of the most impressive projects right now in the world.

[46] And there's much more coming.

[47] We keep adding ground to our portfolio.

[48] But Morocco is as good as Ghana, as good as Canada.

[49] It's a VMS belt.

[50] It's actually a lot longer than what we have in North America.

[51] It's 1 ,600 kilometers long.

[52] So what, 1 ,000 miles of a VMS belt that's never been looked at.

[53] We bring geophysics for the first time on the ground that we own, and we see very, very strong anomalies that we drill and where we find mineralization.

[54] So you're right, Morocco is not known because it was...

[55] out of touch.

[56] It was out of sight for 100 years.

[57] It's now opening up.

[58] But I can tell you now that there was a conference in November in Marrakesh.

[59] And wow, it was busy.

[60] And people were in looking at what we have, an additional ground and what the government has.

[61] And it was a very busy conference.

[62] On top, the Saudi conference futures minerals in January, where you have 20 ,000 people.

[63] There are ties between Saudi Arabia and Morocco, and whoever works in Saudi likes to work in Morocco.

[64] So that's also really kick -starting the exploration in both countries.

[65] What's happening in Saudi is quite amazing.

[66] What's happening in Morocco now is picking up speed.

[67] But you'll see over the years.

[68] Morocco will become a top, top mining jurisdiction because of its mining code, because of the fact that the people are excellent, they're well -educated because of the phosphate industry, which is the largest in the world.

[69] So you're right.

[70] For many people, when I say Morocco, some think Monaco.

[71] They say, oh, is there mining in Monaco?

[72] I say, no, no, no, no, not Monaco.

[73] Morocco, just on the coast, you know, on the Atlantic and on the Met.

[74] And, you know, the mining is south.

[75] It starts in Agadir.

[76] And it's a mountain range.

[77] It looks like the Rockies.

[78] The Atlas Mountains go up 4 ,000 meters.

[79] And you have snow and you have, but it's a VMS system.

[80] So it's volcanic.

[81] It's massive sulfide.

[82] And it has everything.

[83] It's got copper, big copper project.

[84] It's the most.

[85] impressive silver mines are there with Zgunder and Imiter.

[86] It's got pure cobalt and it has beautiful gold.

[87] So it's a very well mineralized system, but it was not looked at ever, ever.

[88] So Aya is with Managem, which is state -owned, so that's a different discussion.

[89] But Aya is the first mover in that country.

[90] It's the only...

[91] Company right now with a substantial portfolio already in production, cash flow positive, making money in Morocco.

[92] It makes me wonder if there's any other country in the world where this could potentially happen, where the government is currently not so friendly towards mining, but it contains a lot of minerals.

[93] If it ever changes, it would be another situation like this.

[94] Is there any other place you can think of that might be like that?

[95] One that's turning the corner is Saudi Arabia.

[96] I mean, you know, Saudi, you had one company, Mahabin, that was there forever doing all the work.

[97] And now they're opening up.

[98] So Ivanhoe Electric is there now with a big contract.

[99] And you have now at the conference, we could see it.

[100] Like all the companies coming in, Barrick is now in there.

[101] And Saudi Arabia is a little bit like Morocco, where nobody was there for years.

[102] Now, the difference is in Saudi, they give you the money for you to do the exploration in their country.

[103] So they become shareholders, they give you the money, and then you spend it back in country.

[104] In Morocco, they're not there.

[105] They don't have the same oil reserves as Saudi Arabia.

[106] Right.

[107] They don't have a massive amount of capital.

[108] So Morocco is just a great mining district now.

[109] And you are the first mover, as you say.

[110] First mover is not necessarily a great advantage in technology, but it sounds like a fantastic advantage in mining.

[111] It sounds like the ultimate advantage in mining.

[112] You know, mining is, to me, is a bit like biotech research.

[113] If you're the first one looking for that drug and you find Ozempic, well, you found Ozempic.

[114] And you go from 20 million to 700 million.

[115] Mining is the same.

[116] You're looking for Ozempic, but if nobody else was there, look at our Boumadine asset.

[117] six kilometers long.

[118] It's firm surface.

[119] It's well mineralized.

[120] People have been walking that ground for 2 ,000 years.

[121] They've walked over the structure.

[122] They saw it.

[123] It was there.

[124] It's outcropping.

[125] And they were mining it with shovels and picking up the lead and the zinc.

[126] And they would throw out the gold and the silver because they did not have the means to recover that.

[127] And it was outcropping.

[128] So we go in now with geophysics, with satellite imagery, with the right tools, and we go, how come this is still there?

[129] And then you go to the government and all the land around is available.

[130] So if you look at us at Boumadin, in what country do you go in where you have a 30 square kilometer mining permit?

[131] And now we have, within two years, we have 800 square kilometers.

[132] Yeah.

[133] Nowhere.

[134] 800, wow, okay.

[135] And you're talking about silver in particular.

[136] Hold on a second, Corey.

[137] I need to say, just for our listeners' sake, outcropping means that you're walking along and the mineralization is just sticking out of the ground.

[138] Literally, you can see it sticking out of the ground.

[139] So it's kind of, it's virgin territory is what we're describing there.

[140] But I'm sorry, Corey, go ahead.

[141] Yeah, right.

[142] And when you're talking about outcropping that too, you're talking about like the Romans back in the day, right?

[143] Like walking around finding silver in the hills, right?

[144] It's just...

[145] Well, that's what happened in Morocco.

[146] The discoveries were made by the Romans 2 ,000 years ago.

[147] Our mind was discovered by the Romans.

[148] We have documents going back 900 years.

[149] on the production of Zgunder.

[150] Can you believe this?

[151] And we still find artifacts that go back, like we don't know, over a thousand years on site.

[152] And now sometimes we're mining underground, we're developing and we, whoops, we hit a gallery that we didn't know was there.

[153] Wow.

[154] That was open a thousand years ago.

[155] that's fascinating and now the beauty of morocco tried to do that in europe or in north america they would stop you for two years to do the investigation on on this new gallery which they would try to understand and and look at artifacts i mean morocco is a you know we found a new gallery here it is and we go into it we take a look and then we move right on i mean it's the beauty of morocco is they're not bogged down with with the whole esg then and though you have to respect that but you know they don't stop you for two years to do the investigation if you were in quebec and you you hit a a a a a situation like that they would stop you forever right what i was gonna ask uh originally was with silver why are you so excited about silver today and in the macro case for it and um you know maybe you can explain to our listeners about that well look i i'm very very excited about silver i am i'm truly excited we are a producer you know we are producing a lot of silver this year we see the inflow of buyers coming to us right now they are short silver they need silver silver is a commodity that's been suppressed it's a commodity that's been managed it's a commodity where the paper trading is as a multiple or a multiplier of 365 so every day you trade as many ounces of silver as you produce on a yearly basis so that's that multiplier of 365.

[156] silver is an over manipulated commodity because people were trading it and they were making money and and it's like gold was until the federal reserve started buying two three years ago and when turkey started buying in poland and then russia and then china then people could not manage it and then it started to move up we haven't seen that uh you take a look at today gold was 2940 and silver was still 32.

[157] so we're approaching a ratio of 100 the ratio between the silver price and the gold price and that doesn't make any sense so it's it's it's historically the average like 60.

[158] So it will at one point move up, but right now the focus is on gold because China, the Chinese insurance companies now are allowed to buy gold.

[159] So there's a massive pressure on gold.

[160] And people don't think right now that as a financial asset that silver, and I'll come back to silver, they think of gold.

[161] And we all know that to stabilize the financial market, gold will have to be much higher.

[162] Because if gold's much higher, then the U .S. have less debt that's unsecured because they have gold.

[163] The Chinese have a lot of gold.

[164] The Russians have a lot of gold.

[165] And the world's being divided between these three parties, which is Russia, China, and the United States.

[166] And their only way out of this extreme deficit is re -evaluating their gold reserves.

[167] So that's coming.

[168] I mean, the writing's on the wall.

[169] That's coming.

[170] And it's coming quite faster.

[171] You saw Goldman Sachs yesterday change their target to 3 ,100 for this year.

[172] And that's a big move.

[173] So that's coming.

[174] And at the same time, people say silver is like a little dog on a leash, which has been carried up by gold.

[175] So gold is going to pull up silver.

[176] And the demand as well is there.

[177] And when people now were coming to the end of the inventory for silver.

[178] And then people will realize that silver's got two things.

[179] It's an industrial asset.

[180] It's also a financial asset.

[181] As right now, the big, big move is as an industrial asset.

[182] for solar panel, AI chips, armament, healthcare, communication, all of that, the demand is extremely strong.

[183] But it's going to come back also as a financial asset.

[184] The day the world says, you know what, I'm starting to buy silver as a financial asset, there'll be no, there's no supply.

[185] And that change is coming.

[186] I had a call this morning before we talked of a very large institution saying, hey, we want exposure to silver because we think this financial asset is coming, the demand as a financial asset, and then there will be no silver left.

[187] And you'll see silver go back to 60.

[188] If it goes to 60 and gold is 3 ,000, well, you have a $50.

[189] uh silver price and that would make a big difference it would make a big difference in the market i think people will stop shorting it and playing around with it because the financial demand is going to really pick up speed and it will make it very hard to buy silver we're seeing it we're producing quite a lot this year and people are calling trying to sign long -term agreement with us uh on on on on supply silver supply so i'm very very bullish on the silver price is it going to take a month two months six months we don't know but it's coming And as the gold readjusts itself as a financial instrument, silver will fall.

[190] Sorry, it's a long answer, but I sure believe it's coming.

[191] It's a good answer.

[192] It's a very good answer.

[193] And we've discussed silver many times, at least a few times in the past year or so on the program.

[194] And historically, if you look at that long -term chart of silver, It's a really spiky chart.

[195] Silver tends to disappoint you and then spike up after gold has made a big move.

[196] So that's the dynamic that we kind of look for with silver.

[197] And boy, are you in a good position to take advantage of that.

[198] But you produce gold as well, right?

[199] Right now, we only produce silver.

[200] Right now.

[201] Oh, only silver.

[202] is a hundred percent silver which is extremely rare and it's very high quality so again yesterday i was in discussion with the refineries and they're bidding to get our silver because they say it's so pure that we use less energy to make it 99 .99 because we ship it to them at 99 .2 99 .3 from the mine which is extremely rare.

[203] There's no nasty elements to it.

[204] Actually, our silver is pure.

[205] We are mining, and this is typical of Morocco.

[206] You have pure, native silver mines that were put into place 550 million years ago when this volcanic belt was put into place, and it's extremely rare to see that.

[207] So there's two of them, one called Imiter, which has been in production for 50 years, owned by the royal family.

[208] The company is called Managem, and they've been running this for 50 years.

[209] And there's Boundaire, which we have.

[210] So it's pure native silver.

[211] It's 100 % of our production for the coming four to five years.

[212] And our second project called Boumadine, there you will have gold and silver, lead and zinc.

[213] So there's going to be a little bit of lead and zinc, and then the majority of the production will be...

[214] gold and silver, but that's going to come in four or five years.

[215] But for the next, you know, mine life of Segunda, it's pure native silver.

[216] Okay.

[217] I, I said, I was, I was misreading the map.

[218] So I was looking at a map in your latest presentation and there is what another project called tears it, which is a copper, gold, silver project, um, near, near, near Segunda.

[219] So you're right, but that's not yet in production.

[220] So that's a gold, copper, silver deposit, which has been mined over the years.

[221] Same thing by the previous owners.

[222] We bought that.

[223] And that we're doing some work there.

[224] We are looking at, is it big enough for us to put the infrastructure, to truck it over to the plant?

[225] Because at Zgunder, we have three plants.

[226] We have two leaching plants and one flotation plant.

[227] So we have capacity.

[228] If ever we found a structure that would be polymetallic, we have capacity to treat it.

[229] I see.

[230] And while I'm looking at it, so I see Zgunder, Terzit, I see Boumadin, something called Imiterbi, Imiterbis?

[231] Yes.

[232] So in French, bis means junior, number two.

[233] Okay.

[234] In French, imiter bis.

[235] And we're right touching the main imiter mine.

[236] Okay.

[237] And the imiter mine, which is owned by Managen, I've discovered over the years close to 500 million ounces of silver and I've been in production for 50 years.

[238] And in our portfolio, we have that permit, which is called Imitere Bis, so Imitere Junior.

[239] So we've done some work on it.

[240] It's got some very nice structures.

[241] It has some gold, which they don't have at Imitere.

[242] So we're keeping it.

[243] It's not a standalone right now, so we're keeping it.

[244] We're looking to add ground around it as well.

[245] But we're right beside, I think, one of the most beautiful silver mine in the world.

[246] which is imiter and so we're keeping it so that's why it's called imiter bis okay and and the other two that are on the current map that you guys just published in your presentation azagour looks like um what copper molly and w is tungsten am i right okay i had to remember my symbols there um and amiz mis is a gold project they look like they're a little north of zagunder near marrakesh um that's right so those two how far along that means means to start and as you will decide but that's why we've created the spin out called mx2 so we created a spin out which will close any day uh with uh with the team from red back mining red rick clark and adam spencer and you the geo and they went from red back they sold that to ken ross as you know then they went and did a couple of other deals including montage in ivory coast so the team came over to morocco and they wanted to I guess it's a great progression to go out of West Africa into Morocco, where life is fantastic.

[247] Infrastructure is great.

[248] Mining code is friendly.

[249] People are there.

[250] So Rick and the team moved out of Ivory Coast into Morocco, and we did a deal together.

[251] We created MX2.

[252] It's well -funded.

[253] It's got some very, very senior new shareholders coming in.

[254] And that means, and maybe as they go to be decided shortly, it's going to be rolled into MX2.

[255] And Rick and his team are going to see the development.

[256] And why we did that?

[257] Because those are not server assets.

[258] So we did not want to pollute our message that we're developing a gold tungsten or a gold asset.

[259] We thought that was kind of a mix.

[260] So we created MX2, which will be pure gold with its own team.

[261] And Aya owns 42 % of this new company, which will go public in a few months.

[262] Okay.

[263] All right.

[264] We'll look for that.

[265] Let me get this thing back in front of me here.

[266] Let's talk a little bit about...

[267] I want to talk a little bit more about Zegunder because it is...

[268] such a remarkable property.

[269] You have, it says on your presentation, you have industry low discovery costs.

[270] Are you telling me that you have the lowest discovery costs in the world there or among the lowest in the world?

[271] As a company, as a company, our discovery costs last year, we haven't yet, it was 15 cents per ounce of silver.

[272] So in 2023, 2024, we're finishing the resource update.

[273] But in 2023, our discovery cost was 15 cents per ounce of silver.

[274] So that is, yes, one of the lowest.

[275] I haven't seen any lower cost, but maybe it may exist, but I have not seen that to discover ounces at a cost of 15 cents.

[276] Two reasons is the discovery is at surface.

[277] It's there.

[278] And the cost of drilling in Morocco is one third.

[279] The cost of drilling anywhere else around the world.

[280] All in, including assays.

[281] In Morocco, you are at $145 a meter.

[282] All in.

[283] Why is that?

[284] The cost of labor, the cost of the equipment, the cost of power.

[285] So, you know, labor in Morocco is about one -tenth of North America.

[286] one -third of probably most of the world.

[287] To give you the example, we build the new plant that's good in there with all its infrastructure, new tailings, dams, new water reservoir, everything, a big camp, and we build that for $140 million.

[288] That same camp in Canada is between $450 million and $500 million.

[289] And I always joke in British Columbia, it'd be $700 million.

[290] So when you look at what we can build in Morocco, craftsmanship is phenomenal.

[291] The quality of construction is impeccable.

[292] The quality of the steel, which they have there, is impeccable.

[293] Power is at $0 .07 per kilowatt hour.

[294] So you have a workforce that is willing to work with you.

[295] That is very inexpensive when you compare to North America or Europe.

[296] And craftsmanship is better.

[297] So the unemployment rate, which is for most, for them, they look at it being a negative thing, is 13 % in Morocco right now.

[298] But for us, as an employer, it says that we have a lot of people available.

[299] coming in to work with us and they're young and they're very well educated.

[300] So we don't have a shortage of people.

[301] The costs are low and or lower than the rest of the world and they're very good.

[302] So our drilling costs are $145 a meter and the discovery rate is fantastic because we've been drilling the Zgunder structure and the Boumadzin structure.

[303] So our cost of discovery was In 2023, it was $0 .15.

[304] We're going to come up with our new resource update next week on Boumadzin and a little bit further on there.

[305] And last year, we spent $30 million, $35 million in exploration.

[306] But a lot of it was infill drilling.

[307] So we won't have the same success rate because we did a lot of infill drilling.

[308] That doesn't add, but it changes the category.

[309] But our cost of discovery is still extremely, extremely good.

[310] just for for listeners here like i know it's kind of intuitive but the cost of exploration being so low why is that so important and why is that an advantage uh for you guys why the cost of exploration is important if you're a normal junior because you need to finance yourself and the more you explore the more money you need the more shares you issue and this is why if Don's looking at the presentation.

[311] We show ounces of silver per share outstanding because these are two metrics that you need to control.

[312] Sure, you can increase the number of ounces that you have, but if you explode the number of shares, you as an investor don't feel better.

[313] Me, as an investor and the board, we are big shareholders in AIA.

[314] We want the number of ounces to go up and the number of shares not to go up.

[315] And that is therefore very important that the cost of exploration is not so high.

[316] If you have Zgunder in Argentina or Chile, like Filo, which is a beautiful deposit and all that, their cost of drilling is $1 ,000 a meter.

[317] So if you are spending $1 ,000 a meter up there and you want to do like we do 200 ,000 meters of drilling, That's a $200 million budget.

[318] And then you need to raise money.

[319] Then you need to issue shares.

[320] So the cost of expiration is important.

[321] Now, in our case, we're cash flow positive.

[322] So it's different.

[323] We take it out of Zgunder pays for the expiration.

[324] So we are very tight.

[325] We only have 131 million shares outstanding.

[326] And at the board with our people, we control 46 % of it.

[327] So it's a very tight float.

[328] It's very well held by shareholders that are close to the board, which is fantastic.

[329] And we don't need to raise money to do exploration.

[330] So that's why it's important.

[331] You're right.

[332] It's not a key factor normally because we go to present to mining shows and people come up and say, oh, this year, you know, we'll have a big program.

[333] It'll be 6 ,000 meters.

[334] Well, we do 200 ,000.

[335] But why did they do 6 ,000 meters?

[336] Because that's what they can afford.

[337] It's so high.

[338] And then they have to spend three, four million in exploration.

[339] And they go, can't do that.

[340] Our exploration team is 85 people.

[341] We currently have 20 drills.

[342] So we have two labs that are full time for us.

[343] that are independent, but they work for us.

[344] So, you know, it's like it's a logistic thing.

[345] So your cost is important.

[346] And just one other quick thing.

[347] You're using mostly or all local labor?

[348] 1 % expat.

[349] 99 .99 local.

[350] Wow.

[351] 99 % local.

[352] Yep.

[353] That's very cool.

[354] They're there.

[355] They're very good.

[356] They speak the language.

[357] You know, we work in Arab or in Baghdad.

[358] a little bit in french that's it so they speak the language they know the people uh they work hard and uh and yeah and look they and they understand who we are they understand that we're a publicly traded company we have programs for them to own shares and we bring them into our our world of a public company but they do the work and you know what take a look at all the videos take a look at the construction It's one of the best that I have seen in my 30 years in mining.

[359] Oh, wow.

[360] It makes me wonder what other industries I should look at in Morocco.

[361] I mean, if the labor force is that great and they sound like a motivated group of people and the laws sound friendly toward mining, if they're friendly toward mining, that's the most...

[362] you know, hated industry around the world.

[363] Well, the industry, the other industry in Morocco that's really doing extremely well is the EV industry.

[364] And, you know, I was giving a speech in Morocco not long ago, and I said, you know, for you guys to have Mr. Trump come into power, who has decided to remove the IRA funding to all the EV sector has been the best decision for Morocco.

[365] and everybody's moved out of North America into Morocco.

[366] They were there, and now they're even bigger there.

[367] Why?

[368] Because Morocco has a free trade agreement with North America.

[369] It has a free trade agreement with Europe and with Asia.

[370] So they're all there.

[371] CATL, BTR, BYD, they're all there.

[372] They're all building batteries there, and the plants are not like to be built.

[373] They're built.

[374] They're there.

[375] They're working.

[376] So the EV sector, in Morocco, it's in Tangier, it's to the north, is amazing.

[377] So what you see in China, the next place in the world that's got the same kind of pizzazz and momentum in EV is Morocco.

[378] Wow.

[379] Did not know that.

[380] I want to get back to another question.

[381] Why is the power so cheap in Morocco?

[382] You said it's like seven cents.

[383] That's a great question.

[384] And the reason is because it's wind and solar.

[385] So they were way ahead of the curve 20 years ago.

[386] 20 years ago, they decided to start building their solar and wind capacity.

[387] Now, you know, Morocco is the desert for more than half of its surface.

[388] And it's got the Atlantic.

[389] So the Atlantic brings the wind and you go on the plateaus and you put the solar panel there.

[390] And so currently...

[391] The grid is 33 % green.

[392] Our mines there is 100 % green.

[393] So every unit of energy that comes into the plant or to the camp is green.

[394] It's from solar and wind.

[395] And their goal, their goal is to be 50 % in five years, I think, for the grid to be wind and solar.

[396] And the rest is gas and a little bit of oil, but really a small amount of hydro, but not much.

[397] But it's really green.

[398] Now, you know, there's a massive gas discovery off Mauritania and Senegal.

[399] And now they are saying they're going to be building a pipeline that's going to replace the Russian gas to Europe, coming through Senegal into Morocco.

[400] across to Spain, most likely.

[401] And so that's going to bring for them a major supply of gas.

[402] And that is a key priority for the country.

[403] But they are agreeing that Total Energy is building a $14 billion project, green energy in Morocco.

[404] So we have signed a 20 -year power purchase agreement with an independent power producer.

[405] and which is hooked onto the grid.

[406] So we get our power from the grid, but there's a matching system where you match your use and source of power.

[407] So we are matched with an IPP, an independent power producer, and we have a power purchase agreement with that group at seven cents for 20 years.

[408] Wow.

[409] That is very interesting to me. Most places that ramped up their wind and solar, the price went up.

[410] it got more expensive it didn't get less expensive so because yeah but but but then because we were doing small projects if you do a small project and you put the a few solar panel and all the equipment and all that you cannot bring the price down But what they do there are solar farms.

[411] And currently worldwide, the cheapest, cheapest source of power is solar.

[412] So that's why it's growing so quickly in the States.

[413] And in China, you can produce solar energy now for four or five cents.

[414] And I don't have the latest, but four or five cents.

[415] per kilowatt hour.

[416] So it's the cheapest source right now, except for nuclear, but that's a different ballgame.

[417] That's another animal.

[418] But nuclear is also staying very alive because it's going to be one of the cheapest sources.

[419] But that's why Morocco, we're at the forefront of the thinking on green energy.

[420] Wow.

[421] All right.

[422] I have more questions about that.

[423] I'm going to Morocco.

[424] I'm sure we have tours.

[425] I'm telling you, best food, great people, surfing all your 12 months of the year in Agadir, skiing in the Atlas Mountain, the best food you can find, the fish and the local cuisine is amazing.

[426] Music is great.

[427] You love music.

[428] The city right now in the world that I think is kind of the place to be if you want to have a good time is Marrakesh.

[429] And Marrakesh is very young, very trendy.

[430] And at the foot of the mountain, we have our technical office there.

[431] You're at the foot of the Atlas Mountain.

[432] And from Marrakesh, you go up into the Atlas.

[433] And that's where all the mining sector is.

[434] Gotcha.

[435] Dan may have another question here.

[436] Go ahead.

[437] You can go.

[438] I was just curious.

[439] How does somebody from Canadian end up in West Africa?

[440] I know you've been there for a long time, but how did you end up even there to begin with?

[441] Yeah, it's a long...

[442] You know what?

[443] You're going to have a good laugh.

[444] I'm an accountant.

[445] I'm a tax specialist.

[446] Okay.

[447] I'm not a geologist.

[448] I'm not a mining engineer, but I have...

[449] the understanding of taxation, international taxation.

[450] And I was doing a lot of radio shows and television shows in Canada.

[451] And one of the largest Canadian charity asked me to join their board.

[452] And I became a board member and president of the audit committee or chairman of the audit committee.

[453] And they were spending money in Africa.

[454] So I went to Africa with them as a board member and sit at the...

[455] Last meeting with the president of Burkina Faso, Mr. Blaise Campari, says, Monsieur Lassalle, you are from Canada.

[456] You must know mining.

[457] And I'm a tax specialist.

[458] So I said, yes, Mr. President.

[459] I'd like you to tell me why we don't have mines in Burkina.

[460] There are mines in Ghana.

[461] which comes right into Burkina.

[462] There are mines in Ivory Coast.

[463] There's mines in Mali.

[464] There's mines even in Niger, where you have uranium mines.

[465] Why was God so unfair that in Burkina, which is a big piece of land, we have no mines?

[466] I said, Mr. President, I'm really not from the mining space.

[467] He said, yeah, yes, but you Canadians know mining so well.

[468] I count on you to tell me why we have no mines or tell me how we can find mines.

[469] So I came back to Canada and I created SEMAPHO.

[470] SEMAPHO means West Africa Mining Corporation, Société d 'Exploration Minière Afrique de l 'Ouest.

[471] So I created SEMAPHO with one geologist, raised a little bit of money between friends.

[472] They all thought I was crazy, obviously.

[473] And one day at PDAC, which is happening in two weeks, somebody came into the booth and he said, I think I have your solution.

[474] And it's called geophysics.

[475] And all my geos started laughing and thought this guy was a clown.

[476] And he says, I said, explain it to me. Explain that to me. He says, geophysics, we're going to fly an airplane and we're going to read and try to understand where the structures are.

[477] And if we can find where the structures are, you know, we will see.

[478] And people have not understood that in Burkina is the end of or the entrance of the Sahara Desert.

[479] And the ground was covered by 20, 30 meters of sand that had been compressed that killed all the geocam.

[480] And we did the geophysics and we discovered, Semaphore discovered the Hyundai Belt, which today has like 10 mines.

[481] And so Semaphore went from a penny stock or nothing to 3 billion market cap.

[482] And over time...

[483] And so that's how I ended up in mining in West Africa on a pro bono trip to Africa to help children and mothers.

[484] And we created Semaphore, and Semaphore was sold to Endeavor.

[485] And then we stumbled on AYA, which we put the same team, Semaphore 2 .0.

[486] And the team is so competent that they discovered Zgunder and Abu Madin, and we've built this third project.

[487] So this is how we went there.

[488] Wow.

[489] Great story.

[490] Amazing journey too.

[491] I'm sure you're happy you said yes to Mr. President all the way back then, right?

[492] Look, you know what?

[493] Funny enough, we just moved offices within the office and I was putting my stuff out yesterday and actually...

[494] came up with the picture of that day.

[495] So I just put it up.

[496] It's right in front of me, the picture of that day where we're all together.

[497] And he goes over to me and he says, I'm counting on you to give me the answer.

[498] So I still have that, which was 1994.

[499] Wow, that is funny.

[500] That's great.

[501] An unlikely story.

[502] It's unlikely that a Canadian was not, you know, a minor over in Africa.

[503] And then, you know, to come back and start one and have it be a big success.

[504] And now you're on to your second big success, which Aya has already had a fantastic run.

[505] I think when I first talked to you at Rick Rule's conference in Florida.

[506] I think I had noticed that the stock was like 80 cents at one point and it was like 14 bucks at that point.

[507] So it had already had a monster run.

[508] But I remember asking you the typical question that any investor would ask, which is, aren't I too late?

[509] The stock has already just taken off like a rocket ship and everybody knows the story.

[510] And I was shocked.

[511] Like, it's very hard for anybody to make a compelling case to me about anything.

[512] But I came away from there believing that you were right, that the upside was tremendous.

[513] And I wonder if you could tell me that kind of story and that reason why you think the upside in AYA is still so great, even after the stock has already had a monster run.

[514] Well, we had a monster run.

[515] You're absolutely right.

[516] And we went to $19 .56.

[517] And then some people start saying, okay, this is like, wow, this is way too big, maybe a little bit too fast.

[518] But really what stopped the run is when Mr. Trump came into power that morning and he said, you know, I really believe in Bitcoin and crypto and all that.

[519] We saw a shift.

[520] out of the precious metal sector, some of our shareholders said, look, we're selling our position to go into crypto or Bitcoin and we'll come back later when the momentum is back.

[521] So when we moved from $0 .80 to $12, $13, that was fundamental.

[522] We were finding ounces.

[523] When we took the company, we had 10 million ounces of silver.

[524] And before the new resource update, we have 450 million ounces.

[525] So we took it from 10 to 450.

[526] So that was fundamental.

[527] And then there was momentum.

[528] You know, if you recall last September, October, November, it was a momentum trade.

[529] The stocks were going up.

[530] It was a momentum trade.

[531] People wanted to be in silver.

[532] Mr. Trump comes in, you know, he just sets the record straight.

[533] And then you saw what happened to Bitcoin.

[534] It went from 60 ,000 to 100 ,000.

[535] And there was a big move.

[536] We adjusted back down to 12, 11, 12.

[537] We also had a difficult Q3 last year because of the ramp up of the underground mining, which we've corrected.

[538] And so we took a beating back to 11.

[539] And today we're between 11 and 12.

[540] But where do you see in mining that we're going to be adding like, you know, and I'm giving you a round number, 100 ,000 ounces of silver every year.

[541] of new discoveries that we're adding to a producing mine and to be producing mine in one of the best jurisdictions so what we need to see now and so we will be continuing to give very good results we gave some two weeks ago on our production for january january was equivalent to a quarter so the the amount that we were producing per quarter we produce in january and january was the beginning of the ramp up of our new mine or new plant at has been there so the ramp up is continuing very very well it's going to grow and and we should be exiting the year with a quarterly production of 1 .5 1 .6 million ounces per quarter at an all -in cost of 14 so it's very very good but the real upside comes from the exploration upside so as good that we have 400 square kilometers and we've only we're only mining from one structure which is 2 % of the area that we have.

[542] And at Boumedzin, we have 800 square kilometers that we've added this year.

[543] And all we've drilled is one structure.

[544] And on that one structure, as of now, we are at 352 million ounces of silver.

[545] And next week, we'll be a lot higher.

[546] So the reason why Ayas was such a great trade...

[547] And it's continuing to be a great trade because we're finding ounces in the ground at 15, 20, maybe 25 cents this year.

[548] But we're adding ounces that have a margin of $18.

[549] So if you have a margin of $18 and your cost of discovery, make it even 50 cents, your value goes up.

[550] So that's why the value of value will keep going up because we keep adding ounces that have beautiful margins at a very low cost of discovery.

[551] Right.

[552] And you are the only Toronto listed pure play silver producer.

[553] And what you just explained to me about the momentum kind of deflating out of the trade there, it explains why you have your price to net asset value on your presentation.

[554] I encourage everybody to look at the presentation.

[555] It's very good.

[556] It's very thorough.

[557] And you're just about the cheapest one almost.

[558] And it makes sense, doesn't it?

[559] Because silver is kind of, you know, it's more volatile than gold.

[560] We all know this.

[561] And so it's kind of this moment sort of playing right into a decent value -oriented mining investor for AYA.

[562] It feels like an interesting moment.

[563] It makes me want to look at the stock.

[564] I've never...

[565] I've stayed away from mining in my newsletter called Extreme Value, except for very, very, very few.

[566] We have Altius Minerals, and we recommended Royal Gold at one point, and Sprott Inc. is related to mining, but not a mining company.

[567] And that's it, you know, because I'm terrified of mining.

[568] But this is interesting to me. It's interesting.

[569] Yeah, and Momentum will come back.

[570] It will come back.

[571] And once it comes back, we are the tier one quality that people look for.

[572] Because most people say, okay, I don't want to take a jurisdiction risk.

[573] And if similar is going to go to $50, the bad jurisdiction are going to get worse.

[574] That's for sure.

[575] So you don't want to take a jurisdiction risk.

[576] You want good quality assets and you want management that has done it, that has got a track record.

[577] And that's what we bring to the table.

[578] The management, as you said, this is our second big success.

[579] And some of us, it's their third because some were before in other companies.

[580] And I think currently in mining, it is the best jurisdiction, the number one jurisdiction.

[581] And the assets are great.

[582] So when the momentum comes back...

[583] and you are a big pension fund out of London or out of New York, and you say, okay, I want exposure to silver, but I don't want to go to these.

[584] And again, without giving any names to some South American countries that are really getting to be very, very difficult, they say, I don't want that.

[585] So they come and they say, okay, well, this is great exposure to silver, better than buying the commodity, because if silver goes to 50, If you bought the commodity at 30, you had a 40 % run or 50 % run.

[586] But if silver goes to 50 and you're a shareholder in Anaya, your run is going to be triple digits.

[587] So it's going to be very different.

[588] So we've talked about the major sources of risk in mining, right?

[589] We've talked about jurisdiction.

[590] We've talked about the people, right?

[591] Rick Rule would call you guys serially successful because you had his...

[592] you had semifo now you're onto this and you've had success already with this.

[593] Um, so, so that's, and the assets are great.

[594] The, the, the quality of the, of, uh, the terrain, you know, the, the deposits is great.

[595] Um, the balance sheet, let's talk about the balance sheet.

[596] Um, currently, um, you have listed that, and this is just your latest presentation.

[597] If it's, if it's.

[598] If you have more up to date, that's fine.

[599] Looks like 100 million in debt, 73 million in cash, and a recent market cap of about a billion and a half Canadian.

[600] And those other figures were US, but people can do some math, I guess, on this.

[601] Did you say 100?

[602] It says here 141 .9 million shares fully diluted.

[603] I mean, 73 million in cash, 100 million in debt, and you're producing?

[604] um you know really excellent grades and excellent assets uh this is this is really decent you know um yes and and then the debt is is is a debt on the project which was for the the plan that we just built and it's with a development bank so it's you know there's some banks that lend you money but it's it's called long to own they hope that you default so they can buy it right this is not the case this is a It's a development bank.

[605] The loan was made for the development of the area of the zone where we operate, for the creation of local jobs, for our ESG approach, our corporate social responsibility approach.

[606] So it's a very soft loan, very, very soft.

[607] And it's the only debt we have in the company.

[608] We don't have anything else.

[609] We have no hedging, no streaming.

[610] We sell at spot every day.

[611] We've been selling now for the past month at 32, 32 and a half silver, because we have no hedging.

[612] And we have no debt.

[613] We have a lot of debt capacity, but we don't have it.

[614] We're not using it.

[615] It's really our, you know, we run a very tight ship.

[616] Our G &A last year was, I don't know, $5 million for the year, a total G &A.

[617] We run a very, very tight ship.

[618] And our cash flow last year from Zgunder was probably $20 million.

[619] We reinvested $30, $35 in expiration.

[620] We paid the G &A.

[621] So we're running a very tight ship.

[622] We have no capital repayment to the debt in 2025.

[623] We start repaying in 2026, which we can...

[624] You know, it's very flexible.

[625] So there's no pressure on the balance sheet.

[626] There's no pressure to do anything.

[627] We're very, very well structured.

[628] And that's who we are.

[629] And it's always been managed like that.

[630] And you're right.

[631] There's 131 million shares and there's 11 million shares, which are the option to the management team.

[632] When we came in and we took over, this company was broken.

[633] And I told the board at the time, like, we're going to work for nothing in year one.

[634] We're going to try to put it back, the pieces together, put the puzzle back together.

[635] But we'd like to have options.

[636] And they gave us an option package, which I divided between every senior employee.

[637] So if you look at that list, there's no warrant.

[638] There's no financial instrument outstanding.

[639] Only option to management.

[640] And those options get vested over three years.

[641] And I have never exercised.

[642] Mustafa, my number two, has never exercised.

[643] The younger guys have exercised a little bit, but very often to pay down their mortgage.

[644] But that's it.

[645] It's very well run.

[646] And I do not plan to exercise any until we get taken out in a few years at full value.

[647] All right.

[648] You said no streams, no streams or royalties.

[649] So all the revenues to AYA.

[650] Yeah.

[651] Okay.

[652] And no participation by the government or anything like that either?

[653] The government will have a 3 % royalty that we paid to them as a tax.

[654] So that's with the government.

[655] There's 3 % with the government, which is very reasonable.

[656] Right.

[657] Yeah.

[658] It's lower than my tax rate.

[659] It's not like 30, right?

[660] Yes.

[661] Okay.

[662] This is a hell of a story you got here, Ben.

[663] It really is.

[664] So we've come to the point where I like to ask my final question, which is the same question for every guest.

[665] And even if it's a non -financial topic, which we do sometimes, I always ask the same final question.

[666] So if for our listeners, if you could just leave them.

[667] With a single thought today, a single takeaway, what do you think it would be?

[668] And you can take your time answering.

[669] If you've already said the answer, feel free to repeat it.

[670] What's the one thing you'd like our listeners to take away from this today?

[671] Well, it's not specific to mining.

[672] It's more, I find that people don't have a macro view of the world and they tend not to understand what's happening.

[673] And to me, what really drives my motivation and why I like the industry we're in and why I like the sector we're in is I think we're reshuffling the planet right now.

[674] It's happening.

[675] You know, we have talks in Ukraine and the president of Ukraine is not there because it's not relevant.

[676] He doesn't have to be there.

[677] The world is being divided by power.

[678] He's not a superpower.

[679] So he doesn't need to be there.

[680] And at the end, the only thing that will have value will be gold and silver.

[681] Because everything else has been printed.

[682] We, you know, the weaker countries like England and Canada, we sold our gold.

[683] France kept its gold and, you know, they have some.

[684] But who's buying gold?

[685] Turkey, a powerhouse.

[686] Poland, doing very well.

[687] India, obviously, you know, strong demographics.

[688] China.

[689] Russia, they're buying gold.

[690] And why are they buying gold?

[691] Because at the end, that's going to be the only store of value.

[692] They will take the gold, give it a value, divide the debt into the gold, and say our balance sheet is fixed.

[693] And it is now the time to fix the balance sheet.

[694] Elon Musk is fixing the balance sheet.

[695] That's what he's doing.

[696] He's trying to cut down the expenses, reduce the debt, stop printing the money.

[697] But gold and silver are going to be part of that.

[698] And that's why I think it's coming.

[699] People have to understand this.

[700] When you speak to Rick Rule, who is a great friend and a guy I trust, and you speak to Eric Sprott, and you speak to all these guys, their targets on silver is off the chart.

[701] And the reason is it's not because they are dreamers.

[702] It's because we are at a point where we need to fix things, and it's got to get done now, and it will happen.

[703] In my 30 years, every time Goldman Sachs said something, because they had prepared the ground for it, when they tell you gold's going to 3 ,100, because they know it's going there.

[704] I mean, I've never seen them go wrong on a prediction.

[705] They normally prepare the ground.

[706] And at 3 ,100, the momentum's going to kick in for gold, for silver.

[707] Momentum's coming back into the space.

[708] And people need to be...

[709] part of that if they want to have good return in their portfolios.

[710] And I think that's why I find this so fascinating, what we're doing right now, because we're part of this global reshuffling of the world.

[711] And it's very interesting.

[712] Look, they've reshuffled Africa.

[713] Africa is like a chessboard.

[714] You take every country, it belongs to either Russia, China, or United States.

[715] That's it.

[716] Nobody's independent anymore.

[717] And they're all like, it's divided.

[718] It's done.

[719] And that's why Mr. Trump says, hey, I'm going to take Canada, Panama, and Greenland.

[720] Okay.

[721] These are fair asks.

[722] And Russia says, okay, well, I'll take Ukraine and I'll give you two, three more names.

[723] And China will do the same.

[724] And I'm very serious.

[725] At the end, gold and silver will drive the show because that's what will be the real value.

[726] And we're seeing it in Africa.

[727] And, you know, we're seeing it.

[728] It's happening.

[729] And us, North American, are not welcome anymore in Burkina, in Niger, in Mali, in Chad, soon in Burkina, obviously not, but soon in Togoro, Benin.

[730] Why?

[731] Because it's now Russia.

[732] And so us, we can't operate there.

[733] The Russians operate extremely well.

[734] Algeria, now Russia.

[735] Can't operate there for us.

[736] Isn't that impossible?

[737] You can operate in Egypt.

[738] If you want to operate in Sudan, Eritrea, and all that, that's China.

[739] So the world's been divided, and that's what it is.

[740] All right.

[741] That's a great answer.

[742] Just take a look at what's going on in the world.

[743] You'd own a lot more gold and silver if you really understood it.

[744] Yes.

[745] That's my point.

[746] Yeah.

[747] So Benoit, thanks so much for being here.

[748] It was great to talk with you again.

[749] Are you going to be at Rick Rule's conference in July?

[750] Of course.

[751] Absolutely always.

[752] I'll see you there then.

[753] Thank you so much for the time.

[754] And I'm glad that we were able to take the time this morning.

[755] It's always a pleasure.

[756] Yes.

[757] Thank you very much.

[758] Thank you.

[759] Thank you, guys.

[760] Thanks.

[761] Throughout history, gold has been the most secure, least volatile, most international, and least political form of money.

[762] And when market uncertainty is high, many investors look for safe haven outlets, including billionaire investors like hedge fund founder Ray Dalio and John Paulson, who have recently loaded up on gold.

[763] After climbing past $2 ,700 an ounce, we could see gold reach as high as $3 ,000 an ounce by the end of 2025 or higher.

[764] Find out the best strategies for investing in gold when you go to www .2025goldsurge .com and sign up for our free report.

[765] You'll discover the easiest ways to buy gold before it rallies and the number one pick for this current gold bull run from our analyst team.

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[767] All right.

[768] That was a, that was a bit of a long, um, final thought, but it was a good one, right?

[769] Yeah.

[770] Figure out what's going on in the world.

[771] You don't a lot more gold and silver.

[772] And, um, I've seen people like we've talked with, um, Bob Elliott.

[773] on the show a couple of times, former Bridgewater guy, and he has said the same thing.

[774] I've seen him on Twitter within the last day or two, literally, saying, you probably don't own nearly enough gold.

[775] You should think about buying a lot more right now.

[776] So, yeah.

[777] Great message and very interesting situation.

[778] I'm willing to bet 90 % of the people within the sound of my voice are going, Morocco?

[779] Really?

[780] It's a very interesting situation, isn't it?

[781] Yes.

[782] I was probably one of them when I saw we were having him on the show.

[783] I said, Morocco?

[784] Casablanca is the other reference.

[785] other people might might might go to first um it's uh you know it's it's a great story i mean he's got a great story going on there it seems like i mean sounds like you'll look into it some more but um the company itself but i mean the the story is fascinating just from a history point of view that this the the minerals have been there just kind of not ignored but not available for i think like a hundred years until recently to foreign investment and so or foreign exploration so um yeah i mean it's they're very early in the whole thing and um seems like he knows what he's doing obviously and um yeah it's uh it's it's a convincing story for sure yep very compelling um you know the the idea that there's Some place on planet Earth where you're walking along seeing really rich outcropping mineralization that nobody's touched.

[786] It's like virgin territory, almost virgin territory, we should say.

[787] And in a friendly jurisdiction now where your maximum taxes is 3 % royalty to the government.

[788] I mean, that's incredible.

[789] um in the mining world it really is so and you know he talked about other jurisdictions in south america not being as wonderful as they were so you know this is a new one popping up it's pretty great it's pretty pretty pretty impressive now you know you have all the same risks in mining i mean it's like it's a horrible industry it's highly risky um i mentioned you know the the very few um mining oriented stocks that we put in extreme value i mean all of which have been there for a while now so that's why i'm willing to talk about them our subscribers have done really well with them already um but you know i mean i don't see myself actually putting a silver producer in there a dedicated silver producer but just the fact that it's it appears like it's certainly relatively cheap to other silver producers and it's the only pure play one on the on the tsx i mean it's just pretty darn and the balance sheet looks decent it's just pretty darn interesting i think that's you know we don't this is like you can count the times on one hand when we brought somebody on the show and talked about a mining company that seemed compelling so um this is one of them um yeah it was interesting to hear um you know coming off our conversation with compounding quality and uh peter Slagers about the incentives here as well.

[790] You know, he's got the whole leadership team there as options that they seem committed to.

[791] So it's another thing to keep in mind there.

[792] And yeah.

[793] And just going back to what you started with, with his final, final answer there.

[794] I haven't, I certainly haven't heard anybody from Morocco or Africa explain that in a way that he just did.

[795] So as far as dividing up the country like that.

[796] um yeah amongst us russia and um you know and and china and i mean it's it's um yeah i mean it makes sense right we got we we we all need these these resources um and um yeah really it's happening right now so really cool yeah it is happening it's um it's pretty cool so That, I mean, I love talking with Benoit too, because he's like a one man, you know, he's a good talker.

[797] He's like a one man, you know, Morocco advocate, Moroccan mining advocate, I guess you could say.

[798] And it's just exciting to hear a guy talk about something that sounds fresh and new and different and compelling.

[799] Really enjoyed that.

[800] I'm so glad we finally got him on the show.

[801] So that's another interview.

[802] And that's another episode of the Stansberry Investor Hour.

[803] I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did.

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