JRE MMA Show #158 with Tank Abbott

[0] Joe Rogan podcast checking out the Joe Rogan experience train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day All right.

[1] What's happening, baby?

[2] Good to see you.

[3] Oh, likewise.

[4] It's been a long road for both of us.

[5] It has been a long road, man. Yes.

[6] I think I first met you in 1997.

[7] I don't know the dates, but I remember meeting you officially are in my memory in New Orleans or somewhere around there.

[8] when I was sitting like in an auditorium and you came in and sat down next to me. And at that time, people used to bother me all the time.

[9] And so I was getting some fresh air and away from everyone.

[10] And you came up and sat down and I was in my head.

[11] I was like, oh, no, I just want some peace.

[12] And you rolled up and you were totally cool.

[13] And I was like, oh, that guy's cool.

[14] We had a good session rapping.

[15] Yeah, I remember first meeting.

[16] You know, when you talk about like the early days of the UFC, like you are one of the real original legends of MMA.

[17] I mean, you were one of the very first guys, and you were one of the very first guys.

[18] First of all, you were one of the very first guys, if not the first, to wear gloves, which I always thought was very smart.

[19] I know Vitor, I think, was one of the first?

[20] No. Who was the very first?

[21] Was it you?

[22] I don't know the people out there in...

[23] the internet world say this Melton Bowen guy.

[24] He was a striker boxer kind of guy in the early UFC's.

[25] I did not get the idea from him at all.

[26] And who was the other guy with the one glove boxing glove?

[27] Oh, yeah.

[28] He just died recently.

[29] Damn it.

[30] I forgot his name.

[31] It was back in the days with Fred Edgson.

[32] Art Jimerson.

[33] Yes.

[34] Yeah.

[35] Fred Eddish.

[36] That's right.

[37] Fred Eddish.

[38] And Harold Howard and all those guys cooking.

[39] And at the time, I had just getting out of jail for...

[40] beating up a cop's son, and they kind of, he used his position to his dad make things go the way for the prosecution, even though he deserved to get beat up, and I obliged him.

[41] But...

[42] I was going back and forth from a halfway house to work from the guy that got me into the show.

[43] And we stopped off at a like a Dix sporting goods store, big box sporting goods store like that.

[44] I don't think it was Dix, but it was something like that.

[45] And they were bag gloves.

[46] And I put them on and I go, these would be perfect, but they had a post in them.

[47] So you couldn't really wrestle with them.

[48] And I was like, hmm, I could take the post out.

[49] I ended up cutting it off.

[50] And it was just a clear plastic thick tube that you can hold on to.

[51] So I got rid of that.

[52] And I go, these are perfect.

[53] And I think they were Harbinger gloves.

[54] And...

[55] I knew because I'd been in hundreds of street fights, altercations.

[56] That's where I come from, although I've wrestled since I was eight years old.

[57] But I used to beat people up on the street that...

[58] That deserved it.

[59] Yeah, absolutely.

[60] There's not one guy out there that didn't want to do the same thing to me. I was just better at it.

[61] So...

[62] i knew my hands would get hurt and uh i'm like you can't fight three times in one night without your hands getting busted up so i cut those out and i go these are perfect i could wrestle in them as i said i had wrestled my whole life and uh they were perfect did you have hand wraps on No, no hand wraps.

[63] Just the gloves.

[64] Yeah.

[65] Yeah.

[66] Do you wrap your wrists or anything?

[67] No. Nothing.

[68] And what was the law back then?

[69] What were the rules, rather?

[70] What were the rules infer?

[71] You were allowed to wear wrestling shoes.

[72] You were allowed to hit the nuts back then.

[73] Your first fights, you were allowed to pull hair, hit the nuts.

[74] You could do anything.

[75] There wasn't until I came along.

[76] And anyways, they, you just couldn't, I can't even tell you what you couldn't do, but you couldn't bite and you couldn't eye gouge.

[77] Those were the only two rules.

[78] I think fish hooking, right?

[79] No, that was me. Oh, really?

[80] You started?

[81] Yeah.

[82] I introduced the fish -hooking.

[83] And so at the fighters' meeting, they have these meetings with all the fighters and they all sit in there and I guess think they're badass, but I guess they are in their own world, but.

[84] So they're all sitting around, and big John McCartney was up there explaining the rules.

[85] And I think he is having trouble since there wasn't any.

[86] So at the end of that, I asked him, I said, I had the gloves with me. And I say, hey, can I wear these?

[87] And in his big...

[88] bellowing, goofy voice, he goes, oh, if you want to wear them, go ahead, thinking I was some kind of fool when, in fact, I was thinking everybody else were fools that they've never really been in a fight and your hands get busted up, so.

[89] Yeah, I thought the first time I saw you wearing him, like, that guy's smart.

[90] And look, and when you knocked out, was it John Tua?

[91] Matua, John Matua.

[92] When you knocked him out, I was like, see, like this, you can still generate insane power, but you don't hurt your hands.

[93] Absolutely.

[94] And I didn't hurt my hands, although at the end of that fight, not that fight, but you fought three times of one night.

[95] And I think I busted up my hand.

[96] It didn't break it.

[97] But it busted up where I had to go to the hospital and get an x -rayed.

[98] And I got to go.

[99] I didn't want to go because...

[100] I was a kid, and, like, no one sends me to the hospital, even myself, you know?

[101] My busted up hands now, I'll be all right.

[102] But my father talked me into going, so I went there, and there, all my opponents were all stretched out and...

[103] I'm saying, oh, well, how you doing?

[104] I'm just passing through.

[105] So the x -rayed it and said I was all right and went back to the cocktail party and had some fun.

[106] Did you have any, like, injuries during your career?

[107] Oh, sure.

[108] I mean, when I fought when I needed knee surgery against Ferozo, I couldn't run.

[109] I couldn't do anything.

[110] And I ended up taking the fight.

[111] I told them I didn't want to fight.

[112] And then back in those days, they had ways of stacking the cards against you.

[113] And so...

[114] the owner of the show at that time, says, hey, show up.

[115] You got a small, or you have a boxer your first fight, so that's not going to be a big deal.

[116] And he goes, then you got a little guy, like a 200 -pound guy that was from Shamrock's camp.

[117] It was a Bolander.

[118] Jerry Bolander.

[119] Yeah, yeah.

[120] And you can fight him, and he's nothing because he's like, you know, 200 pounds.

[121] Throw him around like a rag doll.

[122] And I'm like, okay, you know, talking me into it, realizing he's just trying to sell his show and get it over.

[123] And I'm like, yeah, yeah, well.

[124] I never wanted to say no to a fight.

[125] And so I said, okay, you talked me into it.

[126] I'll show up.

[127] But I couldn't run.

[128] I couldn't do anything.

[129] And, like, jog one time around the track of 400, I couldn't do it.

[130] So I go and take the boxer, make short work of him.

[131] And because boxing...

[132] It's good if you're going to box and stand up in a ring, but you're not going to go anywhere in a fight just with boxing as a skill.

[133] It might help you throw a punch and that kind of thing, but if your main plan of attack is boxing, you're going to get taken down, and you can't box from your back.

[134] So anyways...

[135] back to the show, I take short work of him.

[136] And I'm like, all right, so I got this little 90 -pounder, 190 -pounder, and make short work of him.

[137] And I think I was supposed to fight Mark Coleman at that time.

[138] And I was like, oh, well, we'll just see who's tougher.

[139] not get taken down and we'll just throw punches and he's not really at that time very skilled on his feet.

[140] So I had at least a fighter's chance at the whole deal.

[141] And so, you know, you had these like dressing rooms that are screened off.

[142] And there's an opponent, or not an opponent, alternate, big guy, going crazy, making all this noise, he sounded like an elephant running around in a cage.

[143] I'm going, what the hell is that guy doing?

[144] I go, he's not even fighting.

[145] He's just an alternate.

[146] Well, it turns out it comes for us to go in with Bowlander, and what happens?

[147] Oh, he pulls out.

[148] Why did he pull out?

[149] Oh, he just, oh, he couldn't make it.

[150] And I'm like, whoa, whoa.

[151] And I just fell off the turnip truck.

[152] And next thing I know, I'm fighting this 300 -pound plus guy who's all jacked up on God's knows what.

[153] And...

[154] Going, ah, crazy.

[155] Who was it?

[156] Ferozo.

[157] Oh.

[158] So I went out there, and this is at the advent of referees.

[159] And I don't care about whether losing never have.

[160] I'm always down for the fight and the battle of fighting.

[161] And getting bloody, sweaty, getting punched and punching people, man. That's what it's all about for me. And so I'm like, oh, well, I'll get in there.

[162] And we banged it out and they had three refs and they gave him the fight.

[163] I've had people said, if you really watch it, you won that fight.

[164] Don't care.

[165] they suckered me in with a little guy, and then they throw in a 350 -pound dude, ended up kind of ruining the show, because Coleman didn't have anybody to fight, so he went out with Randleman and did, like, a wrestling exhibition, and...

[166] It was like, why did you do that?

[167] You didn't have to pull Shamrock's guy out.

[168] It was behind the scenes kind of things that were all prevalent at that point in time.

[169] Yeah, there was a lot of shenanigans in the early, early days.

[170] Oh, yeah.

[171] Well, it was so loosely constructed, you know, people have to realize, like, if you're looking at the UFC now, you're looking at, you know, WME -owned UFC, gigantic money, huge fucking special effects, screens, everything looks amazing, the sounds amazing.

[172] Professional wrestling.

[173] Back then, I mean, UFC 12 was the first one that I did, which was Scott Farozo's debut.

[174] And we did it in Dothan, Alabama, and it was like a high school auditorium or something.

[175] It wasn't a very big place.

[176] I remember the name Dotham.

[177] Yeah.

[178] Was that?

[179] They did an interview with me, and it was supposed to be at a different show somewhere, and they got canceled.

[180] So they put it up in Dotham.

[181] It was supposed to be in Buffalo, but it got banned from New York.

[182] Right.

[183] So last minute we had all fly to Alabama.

[184] Right.

[185] So I was actually on the plane going to Dotham and, or not Dotham, but to.

[186] Buffalo.

[187] Right.

[188] And they said, hey, there's been a change of plans.

[189] You got to go to Dotham.

[190] So I went to Dotham.

[191] And I was sitting in the two -story hotel, not really a hotel, but like a motel type thing.

[192] And I looked out across the parking lot and there was a bar there.

[193] So, yeah, what the hell?

[194] Why not?

[195] So I ended up walking across the street, and I was drinking at the bar with this crazy old country, a guy, old school dude who's like a peanut farmer or something like that.

[196] And we got blasted.

[197] And he goes, come on, I'll take you to the arena.

[198] And I'm like, okay.

[199] So we get in this old pickup truck, and he turns the key, and it sounds like a dragster.

[200] And I got...

[201] hillbilly hayman or whatever driving this thing.

[202] And we drive to the arena and I'm like, no, no, no, I'm supposed to do an interview.

[203] He ends up parking on the island, a grassy island.

[204] He drove up to curb.

[205] I stumbled in there and David Isaac is like, oh my God, what's going to happen next?

[206] They got banned and then I showed up out of my mind.

[207] And I think there might be a clip of me all drunk saying stuff.

[208] I don't know.

[209] There's a bunch of those clips, I'm sure.

[210] Yeah, absolutely.

[211] How old were you with your first UFC fight?

[212] 30 years old.

[213] And did you have any competitive fights other than wrestling matches?

[214] Did you do any amateur fights or anything?

[215] Well, it kind of wasn't around back then.

[216] No, there was no real fighting.

[217] You only did it in the street.

[218] Back in those days, I had wrestled.

[219] And then on my 19th birthday, I was hoping to go on.

[220] I had one year at wrestling in junior college, and a dumb, drunk friend of mine drove into a light pole on my birthday.

[221] That's why my teeth got all knocked out.

[222] And...

[223] It also put a gash right underneath my knee and mangled my knee on my left knee.

[224] And so my wrestling, I came back like halfway, maybe a third of the way into the season.

[225] And I just could, I didn't have enough time to get whatever.

[226] It's all written meaning spiritually.

[227] And so...

[228] I didn't perform the way I wanted to perform my sophomore year.

[229] I did not continue.

[230] No one was interested in me. So the whole time as a young man, I wanted a box.

[231] And my mother said, absolutely not.

[232] Not the CTE.

[233] And everybody boxes is stupid.

[234] And you're not going to do that.

[235] And I'm like...

[236] Oh, man. So I didn't have anything to do.

[237] I was 18 years old, and I said, you know what?

[238] I want to box.

[239] And the same guy that was back when Mike Tyson was on fire, and he was the baddest man on the planet.

[240] And I was a young man, I go, not my planet.

[241] And so, you know, he would obviously kill me in boxing, but there's not a boxing ring on every corner.

[242] And so I was all fired up with that.

[243] So same guy that I worked for at the clothing company, where the cut and sew type thing was for medical clothing.

[244] He lived up San Luis Obispo way, and he started boxing.

[245] And we were at a, you know, just like what you would think, going into a boxing gym and learning how to box.

[246] And I go, man, I want a box.

[247] And he said, well, come on up.

[248] And then I'll introduce you to my trainer.

[249] And maybe, you know, anyways, that got the ball started rolling, basically.

[250] Went up to Sandless Obispo and there's a boxing gym just outside of their, a Tascadero or something like that.

[251] And so I went to the gym and it's like you see these reels where these guys all, you learn a skill like boxing and then somebody that comes in that's a complete novice has no clue.

[252] of what's going on and they take advantage of these people.

[253] Oh, you think you're telling you want a box?

[254] Well, if you don't know how to box.

[255] So that was the vibe when I went into the boxing gym.

[256] I go, hey, yeah, I want a box.

[257] Yeah, sure.

[258] I'll do this.

[259] And they goes, are you sure?

[260] I'm like, yeah.

[261] So they go, well, you want to spar?

[262] And they're all snickering.

[263] You want to spar?

[264] And I'm like, yeah, isn't that what we're in here for?

[265] Isn't that what you do?

[266] And they're like, oh, no, you have to learn.

[267] And I'm like, okay.

[268] So they got all kind of like chuckling going, oh, he wants to spar.

[269] And so they went and got a mouthpiece from a local...

[270] like, what do you call those stores?

[271] Sporting Good store.

[272] And it comes back, and they were trying to melt it in coffee and all that kind of stuff.

[273] And so...

[274] This guy's got a name, a very big name, from the 70s in boxing.

[275] And I don't need to talk about.

[276] His family has a big name.

[277] Can't say his name?

[278] I don't know.

[279] There's no point in it.

[280] Yeah, it could.

[281] But I was training with this guy and he did this guy.

[282] I have it on videotape and all that kind of stuff, so it's not like I'm making up stories.

[283] I'm the antithesis of trying to get myself over.

[284] I try to just go, no, no, no, you know.

[285] So I get in there and they're all like, oh, this is going to be great.

[286] And this guy is a heavyweight, and he had like eight professional fights and, I believe they thought they were going to use his name and push him and get him some money somehow.

[287] And so I'm like, okay, I go, like, I put boxing gloves on and hit the bag and played around and sparred with people, but...

[288] I'm like, okay, we're going to do, we're going to do it.

[289] Let's see.

[290] Yeah, and I knocked the living snot out of him.

[291] Really?

[292] Yeah, I just said, fuck it.

[293] Can you cuss on this or whatever?

[294] Yeah, you can cuss.

[295] Yeah, but I said, okay, I wasn't.

[296] sparring, like skillfully boxing.

[297] I was like, let's go.

[298] And we went.

[299] And you had already had a bunch of street fights.

[300] Yes.

[301] And you knew how to hit things.

[302] Yes.

[303] And power is something you either have or you don't have.

[304] And you've always had crazy power.

[305] So if someone underestimates you and someone thinks, well, this guy, so they let their guard down, get a little relaxed, think they're just going to tee off on you?

[306] No, he thought he was going to hand it to me. Yeah.

[307] And I was like, all right, you'll see what's going to happen.

[308] And I said, this is going to be a street fight.

[309] And I knocked, I live in daylight.

[310] Like I said, I have it on videotape.

[311] And that guy was filming at the guy from the clothing store.

[312] Anyways, or...

[313] Sporting history.

[314] Yeah, but, yeah.

[315] And so he's in the back going, oh my God, oh my God, you know, I'm...

[316] I enlightened him that, you know, I didn't need to know the skill of boxing to take out somebody that had eight professional fights in boxing.

[317] I pretty much handed it to him.

[318] So what did you do?

[319] You didn't box them.

[320] You just clenched, got close to them and just started playing.

[321] No, it was on.

[322] I just started throwing.

[323] Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[324] Right down the middle, let's go.

[325] So did you always, you just always had skill with your hands?

[326] Like, I mean, that's pretty impressive for an eight -fighting professional boxer.

[327] I put my chin down.

[328] And I don't tell stories.

[329] Like I said, if you want to get a lie detector and a certified guy, I will take any test.

[330] Listen, you don't have to tell that to me. I know you've known you forever.

[331] So I'll just tell it to anybody else.

[332] Tank says it as it is, always.

[333] You always have.

[334] Even when you lost, you were like, that guy fucked me up.

[335] That guy kicked my ass.

[336] You said you got molested by the lead singer from Queen.

[337] Freddie Merckman.

[338] You're slapping me. When Dad Safford beat you.

[339] He was bitch slapping me. You had the best attitude about both winning and losing.

[340] If you lost, you were very self -deprecating.

[341] You always had fun with things.

[342] Yes.

[343] That's not the end of the world.

[344] You were a great guy to be around, man, because it was a goddamn party.

[345] I mean, I don't know if you remember, but we got hammered a couple of times.

[346] There was a few different times at different hotels where you and I got drunk and you with your whole crew, they were all a bunch of psychos.

[347] It was just like being around like a lot of pit bulls.

[348] Like jacked up pit bulls, like ready to go.

[349] But it was fun, man. You always brought a party.

[350] You were having a good fucking time.

[351] You were having a good fucking time fighting.

[352] And you were...

[353] And that's what made you a legend a lot because you were...

[354] You know, everybody thought that the skilled martial artist was always going to beat the fighter, right?

[355] But there was a, you were a skilled martial artist, but you were kind of more of a fighter, just a dude who fucks people up.

[356] And for you just be going out there and knocking people out, you became the biggest star of the UFC, even without winning it.

[357] Right.

[358] You know, I mean, you beat a lot of good guys, but your power and your attitude, like, when Matua went out and you did the little fucking dance, like everybody, because it was, everybody thought martial arts was supposed to be bow and, you know, and Sensei and spirituality and meditating in the river.

[359] And you were out there getting wild.

[360] Matua was metaphorically martial arts in my head.

[361] See...

[362] All these people are running around, and martial arts is martial arts.

[363] Don't get me wrong.

[364] It works.

[365] It's a skill.

[366] But fighting is...

[367] Chaos.

[368] Yeah, but I quang this phrase, I believe.

[369] Anyways, fighter's fortitude.

[370] And that is where...

[371] Because fighting does not...

[372] It's not a skill that you learn and you become tough.

[373] Hoist Gracie is not tough because he knows jiu -jitsu.

[374] He's a tough man. And all these guys that fight in the USC are tough men, not because they know skill.

[375] Like these people are getting an arm bar.

[376] Who cares?

[377] Anybody that sings skill is not a fighter.

[378] You're a pussy, frankly.

[379] You sit around and go, I can do this and I can do.

[380] That doesn't matter.

[381] It's how tough you are.

[382] Your fighter's fortitude.

[383] When someone's got a thumb in your eye socket or taking a big bite out of your back, and how you react and what you do from that.

[384] That's what fighter's fortitude is.

[385] It's not like, oh, well, he's got his thumb in my eye.

[386] Maybe I could arm bar them or put him in a triangle.

[387] That doesn't save you.

[388] Fighting is emotional.

[389] It's not about skill.

[390] It's what is inside your head, the heart you have.

[391] what you need to do to get things done to beat the opponent, hopefully, that's thinking the same thing you're thinking.

[392] And that is, I'm going to get to this point where I can kill this person.

[393] Or let or kill him.

[394] But basically, fighting is to a point where in the street anyways, and everybody that I beat up was trying to do the same thing to me in the street.

[395] They were trying to beat me. They were trying to beat me up and get to the point where they can make the decision of killing me. And that's the whole point of a street fight.

[396] And it's not about, oh, I got better skill than you.

[397] That's the difference between a street fighter and somebody that goes to the gym and learns how to throw a correct punch or a submission hold that's going to save your ass.

[398] Right.

[399] You can learn those things.

[400] You can't be tough by learning those things.

[401] You can become tougher by learning those things.

[402] And if you're a tough guy and you learn skills, that makes you tougher.

[403] Like Hoyst Gracie, he's a tough man. But that guy's got skills of the yin -yang in jiu -jitsu.

[404] That makes him even tougher.

[405] But he has the mental fortitude to keep it together in the chaos.

[406] Yeah.

[407] Fighters fortitude.

[408] And some people, even very skillful people, for some reason, don't have that.

[409] Yes.

[410] There's moments we've all seen where you get this guy who's like, especially a lot of guys who are gym heroes.

[411] There's a bunch of guys that in the gym, they look sensational.

[412] They look like, this guy's going to be a world champion.

[413] Keep an eye on them.

[414] You watch them sparring.

[415] You watch them hitting mitts.

[416] And you're like, this guy's insane.

[417] Right.

[418] And then they fall.

[419] They maybe reach like 30 % of their potential when they fight.

[420] You could see the panic in them.

[421] Because it's...

[422] They don't have it in their head.

[423] Yeah, they don't have something, the thing that some guys have, like a Max Holloway has, that he'll fight to the end, to the end.

[424] Fighters 403.

[425] There's zero quit.

[426] The quit is not in there.

[427] You can go searching around for it forever.

[428] You're never going to find it.

[429] And then there's some guys, even though they're really talented, you can get to a point where they'll break and they'll just try to survive.

[430] Yes.

[431] And there's a difference.

[432] And it's the great ones all like John Jones, like so many of these guys, like they find a way to win and they never give up.

[433] No matter how chaotic it gets, no matter how bad they're losing, they find a way.

[434] 100%.

[435] Leon Edwards in the fifth round against Camaro Usman.

[436] Perfect example.

[437] He's getting just, he's getting taken down and manhandled, and he finally lands a head kick in the fifth round.

[438] There you go.

[439] And he becomes a hero.

[440] And it's all fighters fortitude.

[441] Yeah.

[442] It's about being a tough guy.

[443] Yeah, and you can see it in that fight.

[444] Have you seen that Usman Leon Edwards fight?

[445] I haven't seen it.

[446] It's fucking amazing because his coach, his coach is sensational.

[447] And his coach is screaming, don't let him bully you, son!

[448] You know, they're from English.

[449] In England, and the rocky music is playing.

[450] There's a clip of it online.

[451] You get goosebumps every time.

[452] Every time I see it.

[453] Every time I see it, I get goosebumps.

[454] It's like that thing that is the difference between a fighter and just someone who's skilled.

[455] That was something that you, I think, introduced more than anybody in the early days of the sport.

[456] This is it.

[457] You want to see this?

[458] Because this is so fucking good, man. Play this.

[459] Listen, stop feeling terrific.

[460] But come on, man. What's wrong with you?

[461] You're too fucking out.

[462] You got to pull this out of the father.

[463] Come on, me, man. You got this, man. Come on.

[464] You got this.

[465] What, the music?

[466] Yeah.

[467] Yeah, but it's part of the fun thing.

[468] Yeah.

[469] That his fucking coach is sensational.

[470] So they're doing it this way to avoid copyright strikes from the UFC.

[471] Sure.

[472] They're just showing photographs of it, but it's the kind of person who never gives up.

[473] The kind of person who finds a way.

[474] It really knows how to actually...

[475] It's not just skill.

[476] There's another element, and that's what you're talking about.

[477] If you put it to UFC 6, that was the awakening of the guillotine choke.

[478] You had jujitsu, and then wrestlers came along and started handing it to the submission jujitsu guys.

[479] And then...

[480] UFC 6 came along, and they came up with the guillotine.

[481] Now, if you, Oleg got the guillotine on me twice, and I fought myself out of it.

[482] I've never timed it or whatever, but it was a while.

[483] I was losing...

[484] consciousness i was seeing black but i got i pulled myself out and in fact he brought up the uh fish hooks when i finally the first time he got it and i pulled my head out and he was laying there i'm like what are you going to do now and then i reached down and fish hooked them and started banging his head on the floor when you look back to yourself then does that even seem like you Yeah, why not?

[485] I mean, of course it is you.

[486] But I mean, the young hulking you smashing guys.

[487] This was also just the one round, correct?

[488] Yes.

[489] Like a 17 -minute round?

[490] Yeah, there's no rounds.

[491] Was it, did they have a time limit on any of the fights?

[492] No. And I would have won that fight if Big John McCartney wouldn't have stuck his melon in between us and break us up.

[493] You know, that's how you were talking about how they fix the fights and everything.

[494] He broke this fight up.

[495] There were no rules not supposed to do.

[496] Look, he's breaking us up.

[497] Why did he do that?

[498] Why did they do that?

[499] Yeah.

[500] Were people booing?

[501] Yeah.

[502] That was all John McCartney.

[503] Why did he break us up?

[504] I don't know.

[505] Like, what were the rules back then?

[506] There were no rules.

[507] All they had to do was give him a track starting gun, and he could stand there and go, boom.

[508] And that's all he needed to do.

[509] He just had to start the fight.

[510] And so this restart was just completely because of him?

[511] Because of Big John McCarthy?

[512] Yes.

[513] He's corrupt, and he's a crook.

[514] His idea of what he thinks fighting is, and he's a full -on Oleg, oh, submission guy, because he's all into technique.

[515] I don't know this.

[516] He's never said it to me. But he's all into skill and everything else.

[517] He has no respect for fighters' fortitude or anything like that.

[518] You don't think he does?

[519] No. I think he does.

[520] Yeah.

[521] I mean, I think you have like a personal dispute with him, but I like Big John.

[522] Well, you might like him, but he leveraged his made -up persona Big John to get me kicked out of the show.

[523] Him and his wife, they got me literally kicked out of the show.

[524] They kicked out of the UFC?

[525] Yeah.

[526] Really?

[527] Yeah.

[528] What year was this?

[529] Very early.

[530] Why would they want to get you kicked out of the UFC?

[531] Because he does not like me. He's a cop.

[532] And he doesn't like the fact that I'm probably in his eyes a thug.

[533] But the point is, he...

[534] He has a bee in his mind.

[535] He's never liked me. You know, he was a jiu -jitsu student before he started in the thing.

[536] For the Gracies, they didn't have a ref. So Art Davy goes, hey, what about that big guy, Big John?

[537] And then Big John was a cop and everything.

[538] And he did background checks on me before I got into the UFC.

[539] Like, oh, yeah, no, this guy really, he's got a record.

[540] He's been, he's got.

[541] I've been arraigned at least, at least seven times for beating people up.

[542] And shit was hitting the fan.

[543] It was getting bigger and more and more.

[544] You're going to get in troubles pretty soon.

[545] Thank God I had a great attorney.

[546] He was a guy that could point out the truth, and people would see that.

[547] And the DA would go, okay, community service.

[548] I'd go do that at the boxing gym.

[549] So...

[550] Anyway, so John checked into it and he goes, no, this guy really is a street fighting legend like Tank Murdoch.

[551] And obviously the guy's dad was a cop.

[552] And that underlying, it doesn't matter.

[553] But he did not like the fact that I came along after the Gracies because he was like a stooge for Gracie jujitsu and the whole nine yards.

[554] And when I came along, I kind of said, no, no, no, no. Fighting is emotional.

[555] It's not a skill.

[556] It's not a skills match.

[557] It's what you have in your head.

[558] And he obviously doesn't have anything in his.

[559] But so at Puerto Rico.

[560] I used to go around to dojos and go in there after I'd cruise around drinking a 12 -pack in my van.

[561] And we'd pull up to dojos and walk in there and go, who does anybody want to fight?

[562] And nobody did.

[563] And so I lost my train of thought on that.

[564] But, oh, this is it.

[565] Okay, so...

[566] When I was working out with weights and I didn't, I wasn't a strong day for me. So I got, you have to know when I said, no, not lifting today.

[567] So I felt compunction and I needed to go do something.

[568] I said, let's go check this jujitsu place out.

[569] They had flyers at the Westminster boxing gym where I was boxing after I left that Bakersfield thing.

[570] So we go in there.

[571] And all the other kung fu and wing chungs and all that stuff, no one ever wanted to fight me. And I go, let's go check out this jujitsu thing, see if it's real or not.

[572] This guy's supposed to be a world champion and all this.

[573] And since it's out there, I'll say who it was, but was Alon goes.

[574] And so he's supposed to be some world champion, this and that.

[575] And at this time, we're totally green.

[576] They didn't have really respect for jiu -jitsu or anything like that.

[577] And I was with Paul Herrera and Adiris, who are very accomplished wrestlers.

[578] And I go, let's go check it out.

[579] I'm out lifting.

[580] Let's go see if this stuff is for real.

[581] So we go into the jih Tzu thing.

[582] It was a little bit of a drive.

[583] We get in there and I say, hey, we want to roll around with you and see what check this stuff out.

[584] And they're Portuguese.

[585] Oh, demonstration, demonstration.

[586] And I'm like, oh, what the fuck is this?

[587] Anyways, so one of the guys goes in the back, I guess they put cameras up in these little mirrored boxes, the one -way mirror things.

[588] And so Eddie gets up there, and he's a little guy.

[589] And so it didn't take him very long to tap him out with like an arm thing.

[590] And then Paul, who's a...

[591] All -American from Nebraska wrestler, bigger guy, like 190 -ish.

[592] He gets in there, and I'm like going, what the hell's going on?

[593] Because they're lasting and lasting, and he's on his back.

[594] And at that time, it's like, what are you on your back for?

[595] It's stupid, you know?

[596] You're totally ignorant of what was going on.

[597] And I'm like, holy fuck.

[598] He ended up tapping him out.

[599] And I'm like, going...

[600] Wow, he made short work of Eddie, and he tapped out Paul, and had respect for Paul for his wrestling abilities, and where he'd gone and trained and wrestled for her.

[601] And I was like, holy smokes.

[602] I'm rather large and very powerful, and how long goes is not.

[603] And so I go, okay.

[604] And they were starting on their knees and all that kind of stuff.

[605] And I'm like, whatever.

[606] So I get on them and I had a...

[607] because the medical place, the cut and sewed place, I had a scrub on.

[608] So I'm on top of them and he grabs like a nurse's scrub because they don't rip or anything like that.

[609] And he does like an X on his thing and he starts choking me. And I look at him and he's kind of rolled my eyes like, really?

[610] Like I went like that, like fists on both sides of his face, you know?

[611] And he's like, oh, okay.

[612] And so we rolled around, rolled around, rolled around.

[613] And then he finally got to an arm lock.

[614] And like I said, I was doing curls with like 120 pound dumbbells and stuff like that.

[615] And so I picked him up.

[616] Basically, he was like a foot off of the mat.

[617] And I raised my right hand up and made a fist.

[618] Like, you want me to fall down on his eyes got huge as the moon?

[619] No, no, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, okay.

[620] So I let him down and let it go.

[621] And he was like, oh, like I've had enough of this big guy here.

[622] And so we left.

[623] And whatever goes on in somebody's head like, oh, who's that guy?

[624] I'm a narcissistic way.

[625] Oh, I got him in an armlock.

[626] I would have.

[627] I would have used them for, it doesn't matter.

[628] Yeah, there would have been a whole bunch of bad for him.

[629] Getting slammed.

[630] Yeah, so.

[631] Puerto Rico, I don't know.

[632] Paul was fighting in that show.

[633] That show, it was David versus Goliath there.

[634] Oh, that's right.

[635] That's right.

[636] Did he fight Big Daddy?

[637] Yeah.

[638] And Big Daddy had a videotape of him, so he knew exactly what to do with that high crotch.

[639] That was all staged, not stage, but prepare.

[640] Yeah.

[641] And so...

[642] Alon goes comes up afterwards.

[643] Oh, this is all the way, full circle back to John.

[644] So Alon goes comes up after Paul gets elbowed.

[645] My big John didn't stop it.

[646] Who knows?

[647] I know.

[648] But anyways, so he starts mouthing off.

[649] He must have had too much alcohol or something.

[650] And I'm like, who do you think you're talking to?

[651] And, you know, like, really?

[652] You were going to go there?

[653] Okay.

[654] So he had like him and all his friends were behind him.

[655] So I popped him and was going after him.

[656] And me and Eddie were fighting the whole contingency of Brazilian fighters.

[657] in the audience.

[658] And then we go to the back and I old school warrior and like, no one sends you to the hospital.

[659] And I'm telling Paul, hey, fuck that.

[660] You're not going to the hospital.

[661] You don't do that.

[662] And he's like, huh?

[663] Yeah.

[664] And there was a Dr. Istergo and John McCartney and his wife, Elaine, who is Karen.

[665] I think her name should be Karen.

[666] Elaine McCartney.

[667] Anyways, she comes running up and starts pointing her finger in my face and saying, oh, Get the hell out of you.

[668] You know, just hyperbole in the moment, charged type thing.

[669] They try to make a huge move out of that.

[670] Oh, so that's how you get kicked out.

[671] And then John's like telling Bob, oh, I'm going to quit.

[672] And Elaine's going to quit.

[673] And if you don't kick him out, that's why I didn't go to the show.

[674] And mind you, I was the personality of that whole show at that time.

[675] And I think they went to Detroit or something like that after that words.

[676] And everybody's like, where's Tank at?

[677] There's the show.

[678] And Bob's like, we got to fix this.

[679] And so somehow a letter came up.

[680] of apology to their leverage of they were going to quit.

[681] I'm like, who cares if they quit?

[682] He's just a...

[683] He's a referee.

[684] He pulls the trigger on a gun and then he affects fights by breaking people up and giving people chances and everything else.

[685] He's a corrupt person.

[686] And...

[687] Who cares?

[688] But I guess Bob was leaning into the fact like, oh, he's developed a personality for himself.

[689] Anyways, we're going to have this letter made.

[690] and we'll send it to the McCartney's, and then they can be soothed, and then I'll be allowed to come back.

[691] And that was all around the same time with the Ferozo fight, with my knee messed up, and Bob being the...

[692] Slickster than he is.

[693] But don't you think it's also just possible that Jerry Bolander got hurt?

[694] Because he fought two, right?

[695] He fought a fight first, right?

[696] It's possible, but I'm a kind of a cynic.

[697] A cynic.

[698] I see where you would feel that way.

[699] And I think in the early days, you know, one of the things that Dana White does a really good job about is like he kind of, he lets, he talks to everybody.

[700] have conversations with people.

[701] Sit people down, talk to them, explain, this is great, this is not so great, you know, this is what we think we could do with you.

[702] Like, no, back then it was chaos.

[703] Yes, absolutely.

[704] It was chaos.

[705] And a referee today, they're allowed to stand people up.

[706] Right.

[707] But back then, no, no, no. I understand completely what you're saying.

[708] Yeah.

[709] But back in those days, those guys set up a lot of stuff.

[710] What did they set up?

[711] All right.

[712] It won't come to me right off, but I will tell you.

[713] I want to put you on the spot.

[714] So you think that they had people that they wanted to win so they made things work a particular way?

[715] Like the Don Frye fight, him fighting is people comment.

[716] It's not his friend.

[717] Mark Hall, that guy went out and did the job for Fry.

[718] It looks like he did.

[719] Well, no, he did.

[720] Yeah, it looks like it when you watched the fight.

[721] Yeah, he did.

[722] And they fought before, too.

[723] Yeah.

[724] He just went out there and fell down.

[725] And then, you know, regardless of how easy my fight before is, mentally it's a whole different ball of wax.

[726] Yeah, it's a different ball wax that one guy goes through a war and one guy goes through a real easy fight.

[727] Yeah, emotionally, though, in your head, like, oh, you got to get all ramped up to go.

[728] Especially if you had a real close fight and your legs got beat up.

[729] There's a lot of things that can happen.

[730] One guy can knock a guy.

[731] The tournaments are so crazy because one guy, it's almost like it's better than not fighting.

[732] because he lands one punch knocks the guy out like oh my god i already won i want a fight i know i'm performing well i didn't get hurt at all and now i'm loose my brain's loose and then you could go through three rounds of hell with some fucking psychopath where you're barely surviving both of you and you get to the final round you're like or whatever it was back then was one round but you get to the final end of it and you're like oh jesus i gotta do this one more time with a guy who's fresh Right.

[733] Yeah.

[734] And if you can rig that, and if you can, if you want to start, you can set a bracket up, I'm not accusing them to do that.

[735] But you couldn't do it.

[736] Same thing with that Anthony Macias guy that fought Oleg before me. Oleg went out, Oleg went out and choked out his first opponent with a guillotine choke real fast.

[737] And then he fought...

[738] Anthony Messias that winks at him right before the fight.

[739] They wink.

[740] Yeah, you know what I'm talking about?

[741] You're like, hey, hey.

[742] That obvious?

[743] Where do you want me to fall down?

[744] And I fought the two biggest guys ever fought in the UFC, a 400 -pound guy in the 6 -foot -5, whatever, 300 or 280, whatever size you want to make.

[745] Real fights, not some guy that's out there laying down going, okay.

[746] The early days, it was so loose.

[747] And you never knew when it was going to go away because it was already getting suspended from cable.

[748] Cable kicked it off.

[749] You could only get it off direct TV back then.

[750] Yeah, with John McKean.

[751] Yeah, John McCain.

[752] And John McCain, allegedly, was doing something for Bud Light.

[753] So he was working with Bud Light, and Bud Light wanted boxing.

[754] Right.

[755] It's kind of, you know, the whole world was conspiring to keep MMA from flourishing back then.

[756] Absolutely.

[757] Absolutely.

[758] I mean, it was a real big deal.

[759] They would disparage it.

[760] There's a funny, there's a funny video of Bob Aram talking about it.

[761] They're rolling around on the ground like homosexuals.

[762] I saw that, yes.

[763] I was laughing about that too.

[764] It's amazing.

[765] It's amazing because he's such an old school guy.

[766] Right.

[767] For him saying that, it's just very funny.

[768] Immediately, I was like, what's his angle?

[769] Why is he saying that?

[770] He's just trying to say boxing.

[771] He's just silly because boxing's awesome.

[772] I love boxing.

[773] Doesn't mean the UFC's not better.

[774] Oh, no. It's a skill.

[775] Yeah.

[776] Yeah, boxing is an amazing skill.

[777] It's an amazing skill.

[778] And it's a huge part of MMA.

[779] I mean, if you can't throw a punch, you really can't win.

[780] But it's a different thing.

[781] You guys are in, it's a game, it's a fighting game, whereas MMA is a fight.

[782] And boxing can be a fight too, but the rules are so specific, so limited.

[783] When I went up and boxed the Tascadero thing, I came back here and...

[784] Went to Westminster Boxing Club, I believe it is.

[785] Anyways, I was fortunate.

[786] I walked in, and Tyrell Biggs was boxing, and his trainer, Matt Kerrard, I walked up, and I was a white heavyweight.

[787] And back in those days, like, oh, and I'll train you, I'll train you.

[788] And I'm like, okay, he didn't have time for me. So I...

[789] was like, okay, and I'm slowly learning, boxing, and his underling was on charge of me. And I go, when are we going to fight?

[790] And he's like, no, you don't just fight.

[791] You got to learn out of box.

[792] I'm like, no, not me. I'm going to...

[793] fight.

[794] He goes, well, there's a show in six weeks in here.

[795] And I go, perfect, I'll do that then.

[796] You can't just do that.

[797] And I'm like, no, I can do that.

[798] And so this is also on video.

[799] I fought some guy that had been boxing for like three years.

[800] And I knocked the stuffing out of him.

[801] His mouthpiece went flying out of his mouth.

[802] At that time, the guy that ran the gym was named Noi Cruz, and he was the trainer for Carlos Palomino.

[803] Old school Mexican 6 '2 guy, but knew his boxing skills like No Tomorrow, and he went up to Mack, and he said, hey, that guy's got something you can't train.

[804] He goes, you guys can be in here forever, but I want to train that guy.

[805] And Maxo, I don't have time for him.

[806] I'm with Tyrell.

[807] He goes, we'll split him, you know, whatever, so...

[808] From that point on, after that first fight, I started rolling with Noi, not rolling, but boxing with him.

[809] And he's the one that got me sit down on my punches and all Mexican style hard punches.

[810] inside to the body, upper cuts, all that kind of stuff.

[811] Then I used to, he used to swing those big old leather bags when they were hanging from chains.

[812] It was like an old warehouse that had been there probably since the early 60s.

[813] He had swing the bag and had come back and I would just turn through and the whole gym would shake and his eyes would get all big and go, ah, ha, ha, ha.

[814] No, he was a great guy.

[815] Do you ever wonder what would have happened if you went and pursued just professional boxing?

[816] Yes.

[817] A big white heavyweight with knockout power like you?

[818] That could have been very marketable.

[819] That was the whole idea, and they were all into that.

[820] And I remember...

[821] Because I would show up to the boxing gym with black eyes and cuts on my face after every weekend, pretty much.

[822] And, in fact, on my trilogy, Street Warrior, that's the way he used to call me. Oh, the street warrior.

[823] And you go, oh, what do you do now?

[824] And I go, no, I know.

[825] If only, if only, you don't understand if they only had a fighting show with real fighting, not just boxing stuff.

[826] And he would just look at me and shake his big smile and just shake his head like, you're crazy.

[827] And it happened.

[828] It was awesome.

[829] How did you find out about it?

[830] Um, well, I was driving.

[831] I used to work at a liquor store when I was going to college and supplied my habit.

[832] But, um, so I was looking through the Playboys and I saw an advertisement for ultimate fighting.

[833] I don't know what.

[834] It was one with the tooth fell out.

[835] That was the first one.

[836] Yeah.

[837] Yeah.

[838] And so.

[839] I had, you know, I was living with two other guys, pirated cable.

[840] He climbed up the telephone pole type thing.

[841] And so I invited my dad over and I said, hey man, you got to check this ultimate fighting.

[842] I don't know if it's real or not, I suspect it's not.

[843] I think it's probably just an offshoot of professional wrestling.

[844] He was, okay, I'll come over.

[845] So he came over and we're sitting there, you know, drinking beers, watching the tube.

[846] And he came out with that grass skirt type thing.

[847] And I'm like, oh, see.

[848] And then I don't know who it was, Gerard Perdot or whatever.

[849] Yeah, Gerard Garne.

[850] Yeah, and he kicked him in the face and his tooth went flying.

[851] I go, oh, yes, this is real.

[852] Yeah.

[853] It's real.

[854] Yeah, I can't believe it, man. This is going to be so awesome.

[855] So how did you contact them?

[856] Like, how do you wind up getting in?

[857] I was in jail for beating up this cop son.

[858] Right?

[859] And I got work released from that.

[860] Probation, I did like three weeks in jail in an honor farm.

[861] And then I went to like a probation apartment thing, went to work and came back.

[862] And that's when my friend, my friend who worked for his dad at the medical clothing company goes, hey, You know that guy chemo that works at the bar?

[863] And I'm like, eh.

[864] He goes, you got to know him.

[865] He wears like that gene thing.

[866] And I'm like, yeah.

[867] And he goes, you know Joe Son?

[868] I knew Joe Son from the boxing gym.

[869] He goes, they fought in that show.

[870] And I'm like, well, yeah, I go, why is that guy fighting in that show?

[871] Because he would always, I had quite the reputation back in those days.

[872] He had come find me in the line and go, Mr. Abbotser, this way, and cut me in front of everybody and walked me in.

[873] Is this Joe son?

[874] No, that was chemo.

[875] This is chemo.

[876] And I was, hey, thanks, Keiko.

[877] You know, that's as much as I knew of him.

[878] Like when he was telling me, you know.

[879] that guy and I'm like hmm anyway so it was chemo and he goes this guy chemo if that guy's in it why can't you be in it that's when I was saying Make it happen.

[880] And he started calling Art Davy on the phone.

[881] And Art's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[882] And then he goes, no, you don't understand.

[883] This guy is the real deal from the streets, man. Everybody knows who he is.

[884] And he's like, yeah, yeah, we hear this story all the time.

[885] And he's all not from this guy.

[886] And then it was back in the day when he had like a table like this with the phone and a speaker phone on it.

[887] And so he goes, tell that guy, because I was sitting in the back.

[888] He goes, tell him I got some guy that's like six foot eight, three hundred pounds that wants to fight him.

[889] And we'll see you next week at this time.

[890] It was raining.

[891] So we ended up going to Art Davies office in Torrance right around the corner I heard from the Gracie.

[892] Academy, I guess they call it.

[893] And so it was raining and I had like a, it was back in the days when they had brown paper bags for grocery bags.

[894] So I put my high top basketball shoes in there and like stretchy clothes that you would wear.

[895] I had it all folded up.

[896] walked in, sitting here like we are now.

[897] He's talking, and he's like, okay.

[898] And this is before they came up with the tank idea.

[899] And I said, no, I'm a wrestler.

[900] And so he goes, okay, well, what are we getting back to you?

[901] And he goes, oh, by the way, what's in that bag?

[902] I said, well, you said he had somebody who was like six, eight, three hundred pounds that we wanted to fight.

[903] And he goes, what?

[904] I go, yeah, on the phone, you said that.

[905] And he goes, you'd fight somebody?

[906] And I guess, yeah, I don't go to jail.

[907] And he goes, You're crazy.

[908] What?

[909] You're just crazy, man. And I'm like, no, I'm down for fighting any time you want to do it.

[910] And he's like, oh, I just shook his head and he walked out.

[911] And like, like, like, I said.

[912] See, I...

[913] Did we go over the point of going where I got kicked out before even I got in?

[914] No, we didn't talk about that.

[915] Oh, so...

[916] So they found out about your record before you got in?

[917] Is that what it was?

[918] No, no, no, no. You did something?

[919] Yes.

[920] Okay.

[921] No, this is...

[922] I don't know.

[923] I've never talked about this publicly, I don't think.

[924] So...

[925] This is why I told the Central Casting Mafia wannabe guy that they kicked me out.

[926] This is why they kicked me out.

[927] So they gave me a one sentence paper that says...

[928] David Abbott's going to be in the next show, whatever.

[929] And I didn't realize that it had to be six because of Gracie's owned, according to my calculations, the first five shows before Bob took over.

[930] Bob Meyer was for six.

[931] And so I lost my train of thought for a second.

[932] It'll come back.

[933] So he gave me a piece of paper and it says, you're going to be in the show, not five, but six.

[934] And I'm like, oh, man, and you know, you're a young man. And your patience is like, I can't wait that long.

[935] I need like tomorrow, you know?

[936] Right.

[937] And I was like, whatever.

[938] So I go, okay, work with it.

[939] Well, you can train.

[940] And so...

[941] A wrestler that was, you know, wrestling, everybody knows the world and college wrestling.

[942] And this guy worked for a volleyball company, clothing company called Club Sportswear.

[943] And they used to sponsor volleyball players.

[944] And so Eddie knew him.

[945] I think they used to live together.

[946] Somebody lived with him that knew him.

[947] And he called up and said, hey, Dave's going to be in that UFC show.

[948] And so he goes, okay.

[949] And he goes, well, you guys want to sponsor him?

[950] And I don't know anything about anything.

[951] Sponsor, whatever.

[952] And he goes, let me ask my boss.

[953] And he goes, yeah, sure.

[954] You know, it was new.

[955] He goes, yeah, we'll give him some clothes to wear and all that kind of stuff.

[956] And he goes, well, he won an airplane ticket to go back and watch the show.

[957] I think it was UFC 5 in Charlotte.

[958] And so he sends me a ticket.

[959] And I'm like, wow, this is, you know, I'm a kid.

[960] In my head, I was a kid, but not chronologically.

[961] I was a forever college student.

[962] And so...

[963] I'm flying there and I'm like, man, this is so cool, these people to do this for me. And they gave me like bags full of clothes.

[964] I was like, wow, even socks and everything like that.

[965] It was like crazy.

[966] You know, that's where I was in that time of life.

[967] And so we get there and I had a big club bag.

[968] And I go, yeah, just try to get on TV, man, just so we can see our stuff.

[969] I get to Charlotte, and I walk in, and it was like a, the lobby of a hotel, it was like a two -story hotel, but it wasn't nicer, like a sweets kind of hotel.

[970] It wasn't dumpy.

[971] And, uh, Everybody in the lobby had their desk out.

[972] And at that time, it was martial arts.

[973] And it was Kung Fu Frank over there and whomever.

[974] Jiu -Jitsu Jeff over there.

[975] And I'm just like, and they're walking around like they're Steven Seagall with their...

[976] chip on their shoulder and their chest out.

[977] I'm thinking, I'm like, what the heck is this, man?

[978] Are you kidding me?

[979] It looked like a swap meet for martial art wannabes.

[980] I don't know.

[981] And all these people are walking around like going, this is before UFC, even, you know, people knew.

[982] They're like, wow.

[983] I can remember some guys.

[984] I was just like, are you kidding me?

[985] This is like insane.

[986] These people are like just playing the role.

[987] And so I just walked on by and I was like, wow, I got a room and I went to the room and I'm like, Wow, like my first time really being somewhere by myself, and I'm fine with being by myself, but I'm like, what the hell do you do?

[988] So there was a UFC office in the hotel, so that's my first run -in with Karen McCartney, and I walked in there, and she's like, here are you what you want?

[989] And I'm like, Wow.

[990] And I was like, hi, you know, whatever.

[991] And Dave, the guy that set it up from the clothing company or the medical company, said, oh, you're going to be all set.

[992] You're going to backstage passes.

[993] And I go, good, because I want to know what I want to do.

[994] And the lay of the land, you know.

[995] So she's like, oh, yeah, whatever.

[996] And I'm like, okay.

[997] whatever, I was like, she's having a bad day or something.

[998] And so I, uh, gone, hmm, what I do?

[999] So I walked down to the lobby and I said, hey, man, is there a bar around here?

[1000] And he goes, oh yeah, right across the street over there, just down and there and the highway there.

[1001] And I go, perfect.

[1002] So I walk over there and everybody's partying.

[1003] I sit at the bar.

[1004] And, uh, Everybody's like, oh, what are you here for?

[1005] Like, oh, you know, that UFC thing they're having at the Coliseum or something like that.

[1006] Oh, yeah, that fighting thing.

[1007] Are you a fighter?

[1008] And I'm like, going on, not technically really a fighter.

[1009] I go, well, I'm not fighting in this show, but I got...

[1010] a piece of paper saying, you know, a contract saying that I'm going to be in the next one.

[1011] So I can, you know, you partied with me. I like to have a good time.

[1012] So it doesn't take long before the whole bar is rocking and rolling around me and we're having fun.

[1013] Everybody's like, woo -hoo, man, tank.

[1014] And I'm like, oh, cringing, you know, like, oh, tank.

[1015] And they're like, yeah.

[1016] And I'm like, oh, yeah, woo -hoo.

[1017] And so we partied it up and had a good time.

[1018] And so.

[1019] end up going back with these guys to this like a suites hotel.

[1020] So there was like a room, like a living room, and then you had your bedroom type thing.

[1021] And we're partied it up and it doesn't take long before security comes and knocks on doors.

[1022] And people are complaining about you guys and, God, I'm probably swinging off the couch doing all sorts of crazy stuff.

[1023] And I'm like, okay, well, it turns out Meyerowitz is right across the hallway, and I think he called.

[1024] So that wasn't a good thing.

[1025] And I'm like, okay, we'll keep it down.

[1026] I don't even know that Bob was.

[1027] Art Davy was the guy.

[1028] And so he was purporting himself as.

[1029] So I'm like, oh, whatever.

[1030] And so toned it down.

[1031] So go back the next day, and it all starts up all over again.

[1032] And I'm like, yeah, let's go.

[1033] And they're going, hell, yeah, we're going to the fight.

[1034] And I go, yeah, let's go.

[1035] So we end up, I go, I got these backstage passes and stuff.

[1036] So I don't know if I can sit with you guys.

[1037] So they got tickets and they were in this little cubicle block of seats just up on the first rail.

[1038] And they're sitting there.

[1039] And I go, okay.

[1040] And I go, hey, there's that art guy.

[1041] I go, hey, art. And he's running around like he's Don King in a tuxedo.

[1042] And I'm like, hey, art, art, art. Hey, you got my passes and stuff like that.

[1043] And he's looking at me, he's giving me like the cold shoulder, like not even knowing he sees me, but like, oh shit, I don't want to talk to that guy.

[1044] And I'm like, why is he being evasive?

[1045] And finally, I called him over.

[1046] And I started putting two and two together, like you said, I'm kind of cynical conspiracy theorist.

[1047] He would walk around the hotel like he was King Kong, like I'm the man type thing.

[1048] And right when I went in to get tickets and Lane and them are all in there, he's giving these two young girls, these laminates.

[1049] and gave me the quick eye, like, what the hell is he looking at?

[1050] Like, oh, you know, a sketchy look.

[1051] And when I got to the show, they just gave me paper tickets, and those two girls were running around with the laminates in the office.

[1052] So I went two and two together.

[1053] He gave them my laminates trying to get over with the girls and just gave me some tickets.

[1054] Oh.

[1055] All right.

[1056] So now, just add a little alcohol, a little conspiracy thoughts going on in my head, and I go on that little worm.

[1057] I go, oh, I know what's going on on.

[1058] And so I go.

[1059] So you were supposed to get laminates.

[1060] Right, but those girls got the laminates when I went in to get the kids.

[1061] And those girls that he had just met?

[1062] Yes, they were just groupie ring rats kind of thing.

[1063] Anyways, so I'm like, hey, art, art, art. He finally walked over.

[1064] I go, what the fuck, dude?

[1065] Give me these paper tickets.

[1066] I can't see anything.

[1067] I just want to walk around.

[1068] And in the back of my mind, I wanted to get their clothes on camera.

[1069] I was going to do like a cameo walk by, you know?

[1070] I was a kid.

[1071] Anyways, or young, are ignorant or whatever, unwise.

[1072] And so I'm walking, and he's like, oh, I don't tell you, give me the shrug, and he walks off in his little tuxedo, and I'm steaming.

[1073] And so that goes down, and the first fights go down, and...

[1074] One of the girls, there's like a group of maybe 10 people.

[1075] She goes, hey, tank, you know, in the southern thing.

[1076] She goes, I don't know.

[1077] You know, I was expecting something else.

[1078] It is kind of boring, to be honest with you.

[1079] And I'm like, like I was part of the show, you know.

[1080] And I'm like going, yeah, I understand.

[1081] I think...

[1082] I think Gracie or Oleg or somebody fought and they were doing submission and it was boring.

[1083] And so I go, let me tell you something.

[1084] I promise you, I promise you, is not going to be anything like this.

[1085] It's not going to be laying on the ground rolling around when I fight.

[1086] I promise you that you have to believe me. And she goes, well, I hope so, because this, you know, I can't get into my accent.

[1087] Right.

[1088] She goes, I hope so, because this is boring.

[1089] And I'm like, no, it's not going to be anything like that when I get in there.

[1090] Trust me. And so that was the tone that was set.

[1091] And more beers.

[1092] I was drinking beer at that time.

[1093] Maybe I was drinking some vodka then.

[1094] But so.

[1095] We get back after the show, at the bar, and I remembered.

[1096] Everybody's like sitting around talking about it and like, eh, man, you know.

[1097] And I went, hey.

[1098] You know what?

[1099] I forgot.

[1100] There's a cocktail party going on.

[1101] Am I going, what?

[1102] I go, yeah, there's a cocktail party going on.

[1103] My guy told me about it.

[1104] Like, I had back, you know, passes and the whole nine yards.

[1105] I go, but there's a cocktail party with everybody there.

[1106] Anyways, so...

[1107] I go, let's go.

[1108] And they're going, well, we're not.

[1109] How are we going to get in?

[1110] I go, you're fucking with me, man. We can get in.

[1111] Don't worry.

[1112] So I went over there.

[1113] I had an entourage by that time, believe it or not.

[1114] I didn't even fight.

[1115] And we walked in and, you know, they had the typical banquet type stuff with the silverware and the roast beef and rolls and cocktails.

[1116] And so I was drinking and drinking and drinking and drinking.

[1117] And it didn't take long before I started telling them that they were a bunch of pussies and that they didn't know how to fight.

[1118] I don't even what the hell is going on.

[1119] Wait until I get in there.

[1120] And Jim Brown, the football player, was an announcer then.

[1121] And I think he came up.

[1122] in a fatherly way.

[1123] Like, hey, hey, hey, hey, calm down.

[1124] Tell me what to calm down.

[1125] I'll tell you what to calm down.

[1126] I don't have any respect at that time.

[1127] And so things went on like that, and ended up taking Jim Brown's...

[1128] What do you call those things?

[1129] Like a derby.

[1130] His hat off?

[1131] Yeah, but it was what they called?

[1132] I don't know.

[1133] It's like a hat.

[1134] I don't know what it is.

[1135] Yeah.

[1136] The word escapes me right now.

[1137] It was beret.

[1138] He had a beret that he used to wear all the time.

[1139] And you took it off his head?

[1140] I took it off his head.

[1141] and started walking off, and I got about five yards away.

[1142] And he's all, hey, hey, hey, young man. And I turned around, and I threw it at him, and I flung it like a frisbee, and it hit him in his chest.

[1143] And he caught it.

[1144] And he looked at me angrily, angrily, and I was...

[1145] joking around, having fun, that's all.

[1146] That might just be the top, the cherry on top, but the whole behavior was that the whole night.

[1147] And we left because it was closing down, and I had my fill of food.

[1148] And we went back to my room and restarted the party up again.

[1149] And then I left and came back and...

[1150] They never called us back or anything.

[1151] And I was like going, hey, man, what the hell's going on?

[1152] And he's all, what did you do there?

[1153] And I'm like, this is being me. And I go, oh, no. He was shaking his head.

[1154] And then that's when Art called him and said, hey, that guy is a maniac.

[1155] He's not only allowed to fight in the show, he's not allowed to be at the show.

[1156] No effing way.

[1157] That guy, he's crazy.

[1158] And I remember my friend hanging the phone up and looking at me and slowly just shaking his head like, you blew it, dude.

[1159] So how did you get back in?

[1160] I told you from the guy from the bar.

[1161] Okay, so they discounted all the things that happened in the past.

[1162] That guy made a phone call.

[1163] Well, it's a smart thing to do.

[1164] I mean, regardless of someone's a maniac, it's a maniac sport.

[1165] You just got to have better security.

[1166] Okay, to lead up into meeting that guy that got me in, to a professional wrestling guy.

[1167] Yeah.

[1168] Okay, so I get this...

[1169] This phone call, you're out, boom.

[1170] Right.

[1171] And we go to this bar.

[1172] And it's not a nice, it's a bar that normal people don't go to.

[1173] And so, and we're in there.

[1174] And there's, I told Paul and Eddie that I didn't want to go there.

[1175] I just go, I don't want to trouble.

[1176] And I was a well -oiled and primed machine for beaten ass.

[1177] And I'm like, and I had anger issues from being kicked out of my dream.

[1178] And, um...

[1179] So they talked me into it.

[1180] And I go, okay, listen, if anybody bothers me, you guys have to take care of business.

[1181] And no problem.

[1182] And we were supposed to be in a wrestling room, training, and fighting.

[1183] The wind got knocked out of our sails, my sail, but they were in there for me. And so we're in there, and it's a seedy place, and seedy things happen.

[1184] This girl starts in with Paul.

[1185] Paul disables her and she falls on the ground.

[1186] Disables her?

[1187] Well, he foot swept her because she was clawing.

[1188] It's a dirty, you know, it's a bad place.

[1189] Anyways, so...

[1190] So that Paul didn't beat up her boyfriend, I came up behind him and got double underhooks underneath him from behind and was pulling him back.

[1191] And all of a sudden I hear this loud crack and a light flash across my eyes on my, what the fuck happened, you know?

[1192] It sounded like the jukebox machine got broke, you know, the glass on it.

[1193] What the hell happened, man?

[1194] And I let go of Paul from pulling him back, and I turn around, and there's a guy with a broken pool queue standing there.

[1195] And obviously, I put two and two together.

[1196] Put two and two together.

[1197] And his eyes were like, oh, that didn't go the way I planned because he's still standing here.

[1198] And...

[1199] I don't know because I was knocked silly, but I heard that he got hurt really bad.

[1200] And that's why the bartender or bar owner wanted to extort money from me from having a tape of me beating up those guys.

[1201] Oh.

[1202] He's like, yeah, that guy came into my bar and I almost killed somebody, and I have it on videotape.

[1203] Mm, I see.

[1204] And that's a long roundabout back to the story.

[1205] Got it.

[1206] Yeah.

[1207] So it was a whole lot of fights and a whole lot of chaos.

[1208] When you were competing, were you, like, what kind of training were you doing if you were drinking that much?

[1209] Oh, man. See, you know, I really like to address this.

[1210] Please.

[1211] People don't think that I train.

[1212] I ran a marathon.

[1213] You think that you just get up someday and go, I'm going to go run a marathon?

[1214] Well, there's no way you didn't train.

[1215] Right.

[1216] Like, you look at you, you were very strong.

[1217] You were obviously, you know, even though you were a big guy, your cardio wasn't that bad.

[1218] You were definitely doing something.

[1219] You try.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] Yeah, no, you try fighting three times on.

[1222] That day, the first UFC 6, I believe I could beat any man on earth that day.

[1223] I was in my prime that day.

[1224] The only reason why I lost is because of big John McCartney and his breaking up the fights.

[1225] He should have never broke that fight out.

[1226] So there was no rule at all about standing people up?

[1227] No, none.

[1228] I personally believe, and I've broken this down too many times to repeat it, but I'm gonna anyway.

[1229] I don't think they should ever stand people up.

[1230] A person could take you down.

[1231] A person could take you down and keep you down.

[1232] Tough shit.

[1233] Even if it's boring.

[1234] The whole idea is like what's real?

[1235] Take it away from me about McCartney affecting fights.

[1236] The first fight they had, don't quote me on this because I'm not a historian, but I believe it was Boss Rutan and Kevin Randleman.

[1237] That was the first fight they had with judges.

[1238] John McCartney got in there and broke that fight up twice so a boss could get back up and come back and fight him.

[1239] Were there rules back then about stand -ups?

[1240] I don't know.

[1241] I don't think so.

[1242] That was an interesting fight.

[1243] There was the first fight anybody ever won off their back, really.

[1244] But no, he shouldn't have won.

[1245] If you watch that fight, and I just watched it recently, Kevin Randleman kicked his ass, beat his ass severely.

[1246] And John broke it up twice just so he could, to give Boss an advantage.

[1247] A chance to get back up to his feet.

[1248] Yeah, and Boss is nothing more than a chrysmatic, what, pancreas, pancreas is fake.

[1249] Listen to Ken Shamrock, he said it, it's fake.

[1250] Well, at worst, at best, at best, it was predetermined, as Ken said.

[1251] I think there were some real fights, and I think this is a true in all of Japan.

[1252] Okay.

[1253] There were some real fights, and there's some fixed fights.

[1254] Like when boss fought Funaki, watch that fight.

[1255] He beat the fuck out of Funaki.

[1256] That was a real fight.

[1257] Yeah, I haven't.

[1258] I don't know if you've seen that one, but that is not fake.

[1259] He beats the fuck out of Funaki.

[1260] I mean, it's one of the worst beatings anybody's ever taken in pancreas.

[1261] His boss had figured out instead of slapping to throw palms like punches, you know.

[1262] Well, I'm not going to get into the technical.

[1263] I know you discredit a lot of people because that's you.

[1264] I'm not just, yeah.

[1265] But like, Boss Rutan was a bad man. I think, uh.

[1266] Would Boss Rune be Tioki Koshaka?

[1267] Did you ever see that fight?

[1268] I don't.

[1269] It's a skills fight.

[1270] And what have you?

[1271] I did see the thing.

[1272] Tioschukosa was a very good fighter.

[1273] And that was not, I mean, it was a skillful fight, but it was a brutal fight.

[1274] But was that pancreas?

[1275] No, that was UFC.

[1276] UFC.

[1277] That was his first fight in the UFC.

[1278] I haven't seen it.

[1279] He's had two fights in the UFC.

[1280] I think he had two fights in the UFC.

[1281] And in my opinion, I just watched it.

[1282] He lost a random.

[1283] So he's one and one.

[1284] Maybe he had more.

[1285] Did he have more than two fights in the UFC?

[1286] I can't think of a third.

[1287] I think he might have fought that Indian guy.

[1288] Yes, but that was Ruben Villarreal, right?

[1289] But that wasn't in the UFC.

[1290] That wasn't another organization.

[1291] That was like a later fight.

[1292] Right.

[1293] Now, I fought that Rubin, whatever guy.

[1294] That was my last fight.

[1295] I came off of my hotel bed and walked into the octagon.

[1296] Didn't you have a fight with Scott Farozo in a backyard?

[1297] Yes.

[1298] That fight's fucking great.

[1299] We played that fight once on the podcast.

[1300] We're like, this is so crazy.

[1301] These guys are so wild.

[1302] They're just fighting on the lawn.

[1303] Yeah.

[1304] No, they called me up and said, I go, yeah, I love fight that guy again.

[1305] And I flew out there and...

[1306] They wanted to do an empty strip club.

[1307] How was this organized?

[1308] Like, how does that take place?

[1309] Some guy named Brian Grooms.

[1310] Just came up with some money and said, hey, I'll pay you guys to fight on a lawn.

[1311] Well, he wanted to do it in an abandoned strip club.

[1312] And I told him, I go, dude, he's like, I'm having trouble.

[1313] I go, I'm not going to get arrested.

[1314] I value my freedom.

[1315] And he's like, yeah?

[1316] And I go, I'll fight him anywhere.

[1317] He goes, are you doing my backyard?

[1318] I go, hell yeah, I'll do it in my backyard.

[1319] And so we went there, and I don't know what version you say.

[1320] He put some edited version out of it.

[1321] But he ended up going to the hospital again.

[1322] I sent him to the hospital the first time, and he went again the second time because of his big mouth.

[1323] Well, you were punching him on the top, and he was like cheering like he was having a good time.

[1324] It was kind of a crazy fight to watch.

[1325] Yeah, I don't know if he was cheering.

[1326] It was something like he was saying, woo, like this is great.

[1327] Yeah, he's trying to act.

[1328] Yeah, like he's enjoying it.

[1329] Yeah.

[1330] Enjoying getting beat up.

[1331] Right.

[1332] Yeah.

[1333] Only if a girl's doing it to me. How many fights do you think you had total in all of MMA and in street fights in your life?

[1334] Yeah.

[1335] She had a guest.

[1336] I have guessed.

[1337] You know what?

[1338] That's like asking Wilts Chamberlain about how many one -night stance he's had.

[1339] You know?

[1340] Did he say 10 ,000?

[1341] Yeah, so like, you know, not 10 ,000.

[1342] I kind of...

[1343] dabbled around before I got bored and thinking like, wow, the last couple of years, at least two times a week, at least.

[1344] That's 100 a year.

[1345] That's what I'm saying.

[1346] Two times a week.

[1347] Two times a week is so, if you looked at a chart of the average person, how many street fights do they get in, the two times a week, that is the smallest percentage of the population that's alive.

[1348] Yeah, yeah, well, I was into it.

[1349] What did you enjoy so much about it?

[1350] Well, here's the thing, you're, you're not a dumb guy.

[1351] You're, like, when someone can get to a conversation with you and you want to really start talking about things, you're a very bright guy.

[1352] Yes.

[1353] But you liked it.

[1354] Oh, yeah, I love it.

[1355] It was like your favorite thing.

[1356] Well, you know, I broke it down, and, um, Recently, not really recently, but towards after my surgery and all these kind of things, you sit around and talk to yourself all day.

[1357] I come to realize, you know, there's like a cliche, I'm the bullies, bully, that kind of thing.

[1358] I used to set up textbook narcissist that come in and display their narcissism around people.

[1359] Like, you ever meet somebody that you're like, oh, no, those two can't be around each other?

[1360] Well, I was the kind of guy, and I've never more of an empath than people know, but...

[1361] I would, my ears would perk up and my eyes would open up when I saw a narcissist that it would try to belittle, put people down.

[1362] Oh, okay.

[1363] And I would kind of like be, you know, my brother's five years older than me, and I kind of maybe, you know, he's very athletic.

[1364] I come from like a football.

[1365] Dad's a football coach, that kind of thing.

[1366] And so maybe deep -rooted, I was resentful of him being older and able to push me around or what have you.

[1367] And so when I see these narcissists and I be like, why would that guy be doing that for what?

[1368] Like, what are you getting yourself over?

[1369] And so I would put myself in their vicinity and sooner or later, and if you look at me, Like even today, when I walk down the street, people give me the eye like, yeah, you want some?

[1370] And I just.

[1371] Do they really?

[1372] Oh, hell yeah.

[1373] How are you looking at them?

[1374] Well, you don't want to know.

[1375] Like, hey, do you want some?

[1376] Yeah, exactly.

[1377] So looking at you back.

[1378] Yeah, no, I just smile.

[1379] And it's like, it's not, it's like, are you kidding me?

[1380] I feel like Billy Jack, you know.

[1381] Right.

[1382] Like you don't know what you're going to get into.

[1383] Same, same back in the day.

[1384] And I would go, no, no, no, no. You know, I wrestled 190 pounds.

[1385] I wasn't like I was when I was fighting.

[1386] Once I knew I was fighting, I just ate everything and just got as strong as big as I possibly could.

[1387] So, sooner or later, and I go, no, no, no, no, you're going to slow down there.

[1388] And sooner, are you talking to me, one of those kind of back and forth?

[1389] And like I say, fighting to me is like walking the dogs.

[1390] I don't, okay, we can go there if you want to.

[1391] And like I said, I've been in a lot of fights and talk about fighters' fortitude, you know, someone's biting my back or sticking the thumb in my eye socket.

[1392] I was like, all right, just enjoy your time right now because you're going to pay the price.

[1393] And the more you beat people up in the street and in life, the more jaded and you get used to it.

[1394] Like, you know, I can remember, like, maybe in high school or something, early high school, you punch somebody and you give him a black eye and it's like, holy me, wow.

[1395] That, you want me to put my hands on you?

[1396] You're going to pay the price.

[1397] Especially nowadays, with my health being so fragile, there's a different kind of beating people.

[1398] You know when I was a youngster, I used to go to all open wrestling rooms all the time, and I remember this old warrior coach.

[1399] He said, you know, son, human body can take a lot of pain, a lot of beatings.

[1400] And it was, I still remember to this day, and I'm, what, at 59 now, and it just kind of resonated in my ears.

[1401] Like, when you think, you don't think you can hit them again, and the more they are a smart ass, and the more they beg for a beating, I give them what they deserve.

[1402] Did you always feel that, like, you had, like, an ethic for, like, when you would get in fights or when you were?

[1403] Absolutely.

[1404] You know, I...

[1405] Like, you'd only get in fights with douchebags.

[1406] Well, yeah, but they think.

[1407] They act like, oh, nothing makes me more upset.

[1408] It doesn't happen so much now I'm older now.

[1409] But like, you're going to tell me what to do or talk down to me. I used to go, oh, really?

[1410] Oh, we're going there?

[1411] Oh, who?

[1412] There's a lot of people out there.

[1413] Everybody thinks they're tough.

[1414] Well, there's a lot of people out there that are just bluffing.

[1415] And they just, they talk crazy because they think that people are going to get scared.

[1416] Yeah.

[1417] You see it all the time online.

[1418] You can watch 100 videos of them doing it to the wrong person.

[1419] It happens all the time.

[1420] Do you ever see the Joe Schilling one?

[1421] No. is one of the greatest of all time.

[1422] Joe Schilling, who's the man. He's a world champion kickboxer, fucking great guy.

[1423] Joe Schilling's a nice guy.

[1424] He doesn't start shit with anybody.

[1425] He's walking through a bar, and there's this really aggressive guy who's drunk, and he's talking a lot of shit, and Joe is walking by him, and the guy moves, and he puts his hands on his shoulders, and he, excuse me, he passes by.

[1426] And the guy talks shit to him as he passes by.

[1427] And Joe turns around and looks at him.

[1428] And apparently the guy had been obnoxious all night and Joe had been seeing him being obnoxious all night.

[1429] And Joe looks at him and says, what the fuck did you say?

[1430] And they got flinches at him.

[1431] And Joe just, just two shots and one is on the way down and he's out cold.

[1432] Watch this video because it's a classic.

[1433] Look at this guy.

[1434] This guy actually wound up suing him and losing.

[1435] The guy sued him and lost.

[1436] So watch, Joe passes him, and then the guy says something.

[1437] He turns around.

[1438] Leggy flinches on him.

[1439] Yeah.

[1440] Wrong guy.

[1441] Those videos, people love those videos.

[1442] That's the hundreds of people.

[1443] Wrong guy.

[1444] There's hundreds of people that I've come across.

[1445] Karma.

[1446] You're like Karma's warrior.

[1447] Going out to the bar, knocked down douchebags.

[1448] But back in the day before I became tank...

[1449] Oh, my God.

[1450] Yeah.

[1451] All the time.

[1452] Like, who?

[1453] Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[1454] I've never acted that way.

[1455] I have.

[1456] Only because I would see them acting that way, I would go and overdo what they were doing.

[1457] Just to go them on.

[1458] Yes.

[1459] Do you ever wonder what it would be like if you were, if you were born in a different timeline and you lived in today's UFC?

[1460] Yeah.

[1461] Do you ever think about it?

[1462] Like when you see how big it is now and you see like the different rules...

[1463] You know, these kids and whatever, I guess they're kids.

[1464] The kids to us.

[1465] Yeah, they think they put a new spin on the wheel.

[1466] The wheel's been around for a long time, and you don't understand that just because you learned a leg lock doesn't make you tough.

[1467] And there's some old bruisers out there, they'll take it to you.

[1468] Yeah, there certainly are.

[1469] But it's just, it's a different thing now.

[1470] It's a different thing with the five rounds with the World Championship fight.

[1471] You know, it's a different thing.

[1472] It's like more of a skill.

[1473] I think it would be very, the problem is people wouldn't enjoy the entertainment values much because people get tired.

[1474] You can't really fight for 15 minutes straight.

[1475] You're going to get exhausted.

[1476] But you can fight for 15 minutes if you take a break every five minutes.

[1477] Oh, there's not a problem, I don't think, with rounds.

[1478] Like, but when somebody like, say, McCartney gets to pick and choose when to break up the fight.

[1479] Yeah, I don't like that.

[1480] I don't like, I don't like that at all.

[1481] It opens the door for corruption.

[1482] I'm, I'm, even though I'm a hypocrite, so I will say, like, when I'm doing commentary, they should probably break this up because I'm getting bored.

[1483] But I really do believe that.

[1484] I mean, I think if the thing is they're allowed to break them up now, it's part of the rule set inactivity.

[1485] But I don't think that should even be in the rules.

[1486] I don't, I also have another controversial opinion.

[1487] I think if you take a guy down and you're on top of them at the end of the first round and you're ground and pounding, I think the second round starts in that exact same position.

[1488] They have cameras.

[1489] It's super easy to duplicate.

[1490] They're done it in Japan.

[1491] They should do it.

[1492] They should do that here.

[1493] Why should you be allowed to start standing up, which is a hugely advantageous position for a striker?

[1494] Right.

[1495] Hugely, and you didn't earn it.

[1496] You did not earn the stand -up.

[1497] Like, if you got taken down and you got controlled, you never escaped that.

[1498] And you might not ever escape it if it wasn't for you being stood up and you're starting for the next round.

[1499] Like, who knows?

[1500] So not only do you get to get up, but you get a whole minute to recover, and then you're started in an advantageous position for yourself.

[1501] That's not, it's like it's imbalanced.

[1502] It's imbalanced.

[1503] If a guy is, grappling is a huge part of fighting.

[1504] And if you're not a good wrestler and you're not a good grappler and some guy can take you down and hold you down for the whole fight, that's the fight.

[1505] That's how it should be played out.

[1506] That's reality.

[1507] The reality is you never earned a stand -up.

[1508] If you can't figure out a way to sweep that guy, if you can't figure out a way to get an underhook and get back up to your feet, then you stay down.

[1509] And that should be what fighting is, even if it's boring, because at least this way it's realistic.

[1510] Yeah, absolutely.

[1511] And like Mark Coleman, ground and pound.

[1512] I also think that if you're not touching the cage, as long as you're not touching the cage, needs to head to a ground opponent.

[1513] I don't think you should be allowed to turtle.

[1514] I don't think you should be allowed to just turtle and a guy sprawled on you and he's got a hold of your like a head and arm and he's on top.

[1515] Why wouldn't he knee you in the head?

[1516] Of course he would need you in the head.

[1517] That's a very effective technique that would end fights.

[1518] That should be legal.

[1519] As long as you're not touching the cage where you're not stuck somewhere, where you can move, you got to fucking move.

[1520] You can't stay there.

[1521] You can't allow that guy to hold you in that position.

[1522] If he does, it's just as legitimate as getting a tie clinch and landing if standing up.

[1523] It's the same thing.

[1524] Stalling.

[1525] Yeah, well, it's, you can't be in that, you're not safe there.

[1526] Also, touching the ground and avoiding knees to the face.

[1527] Bullshit.

[1528] You can't do that.

[1529] Like, they should be able to knee you in the face.

[1530] Like, you should not touch the ground, because if you touch the ground, your face is wide open.

[1531] You should be like this.

[1532] Or you should figure out a way to get out of there, or he's going to win.

[1533] Or he got the best position.

[1534] You got a, it's, it's, there's too many rules that make it less about, a fight and more about like winning with the rule set like the touching the ground thing is so crazy that guys have a guy clinched up against the cage and if the guy touches the ground you can't need him in the face right that's bananas it's literally bananas the guy standing up chooses to touch the ground so that he doesn't get need in the face Right.

[1535] That's a crazy playing the game part of the rules that doesn't lend itself to realistic fighting.

[1536] That's not fighting.

[1537] That's not like an accurate assessment of what would happen in a real fight.

[1538] If you leave like some of the most effective things other than of course eye gauges and nut shots and shit.

[1539] But if you leave that stuff out, then you're leaving out like really effective techniques that would definitely work.

[1540] and probably would end a fight, especially knees to the head to a grounded opponent.

[1541] Right.

[1542] At 12 to 6 elbows?

[1543] What?

[1544] How the fuck is that still in there?

[1545] I think they're taking that out now, right?

[1546] Isn't that out now?

[1547] They were just informing me. They're either close to taking that out now or they...

[1548] You know where that came from?

[1549] They were worried that people break bricks and ice on ESPN.

[1550] Okay.

[1551] So they banned the 12 to 6 elbow.

[1552] All these years later, 2024, it's still banned.

[1553] It's fucking crazy.

[1554] They vote to remove.

[1555] Nice.

[1556] Okay.

[1557] So this is in January.

[1558] So is it taken to, is it into effect already?

[1559] Is that it?

[1560] This might mean that New Jersey.

[1561] I don't know if it's like countrywide, worldwide.

[1562] Mm. If it's ABC, I think it is.

[1563] I think it is because Hunter Campbell is the one who told me about it.

[1564] It was either him or Craig.

[1565] Craig Borsari.

[1566] But do you know the guys who run the UFC now?

[1567] You ever go?

[1568] I haven't been on a medical hiatus for...

[1569] Yeah, tell me about this, because you...

[1570] They told you that you were going to drink yourself to death, and they were right.

[1571] I did that.

[1572] He came close.

[1573] No, I did it.

[1574] You came close and you came back.

[1575] Yes.

[1576] What happened?

[1577] Well, you saw what I used to do.

[1578] I just kept on doing it.

[1579] No, I mean, what happened physically to you?

[1580] Like, what surgery did you have done?

[1581] I got a liver transplant and a kidney transplant.

[1582] Holy shit.

[1583] Yeah, and I died five times on the table.

[1584] Holy shit.

[1585] Did you both at the same time?

[1586] No. They did the kidney, or the liver first, and wanted to make sure it took hold.

[1587] And then months later, they did the kidney.

[1588] How old were you when this was going on?

[1589] Six years ago.

[1590] Okay.

[1591] And but I had, so 53.

[1592] Yeah.

[1593] I had five strokes, too, so sometimes I struggle.

[1594] It's hard.

[1595] I was a, for a long time, really, really slow.

[1596] like i could the strokes yeah it was all on the table um and so yeah it was it was a rough so do you have to take medication to make sure that the your body doesn't reject the organs yes uh yes and does that fuck with your immune system Well, it is about the immune system.

[1597] Right.

[1598] But, I mean, does it fuck with you?

[1599] Like, do you get cold?

[1600] I always wonder.

[1601] No. But you know what?

[1602] I happened.

[1603] It was like I almost died from that, too.

[1604] I was two days away, according to the doctor.

[1605] I got roundworm infection.

[1606] Ooh.

[1607] that was, they think, hanging around for a long time.

[1608] And once I got on anti -rejection medicine, they didn't have any resistance.

[1609] Right.

[1610] So it started flourishing.

[1611] And they didn't know what was going on.

[1612] And I was like, No, you don't understand.

[1613] I'm dying, not literally, but from pain.

[1614] And they're like going, we don't know what's wrong with you.

[1615] Anyways, I couldn't take it anymore.

[1616] So I ended up doing 30 more days, and this is after a while of being home.

[1617] And I was actually going to the gym, crawling around on the wrestling mat, doing that kind of stuff.

[1618] Turns out, the doctor saved me, Dr. Toto, he saved me twice.

[1619] Two different surgery type things.

[1620] But he did a biopsy of my bowels and stuff and found that I had roundworm and I was...

[1621] He's like, you know where you got this from?

[1622] I have some guesses.

[1623] And so.

[1624] Where do you get roundworm?

[1625] Well, I don't know.

[1626] I went to Costa Rica a few times, but I don't know.

[1627] Is it like a tropical worm?

[1628] Yeah.

[1629] Roundworm is like an intestinal thing.

[1630] Okay, so it's probably from something you ate somewhere.

[1631] Right.

[1632] Right.

[1633] And so now it's just overrunning your body.

[1634] Yeah, slowly.

[1635] And I was in the hospital for my, after I did like four months the first time.

[1636] The second time I went to the emergency room, couldn't take anymore twice.

[1637] And I was there for 30 days on morphine.

[1638] And it was very painful.

[1639] So I developed a chant of pain is temporary.

[1640] Pain is temporary.

[1641] And oh my God, for a month, they finally did a...

[1642] and cut me up and did my bowels and found that I had roundworm and two days of medicine and I was better.

[1643] Wow.

[1644] Yeah.

[1645] I imagine people dying from that must not be very nice.

[1646] Yeah, I talked to this dude once who told me that like 90 % of people that live in tropical climates.

[1647] 90 % have some sort of parasite in their body.

[1648] Well...

[1649] It's possible.

[1650] I want to hear a nutty one?

[1651] This is what I was going to say.

[1652] It's going to be a nutty.

[1653] Okay, because I didn't say it.

[1654] So when we went to Japan, first time, I was there with a Brazilian fighter, and he was eating a lot of food, a lot of food.

[1655] And Isaacs, Bob, all them are like gone, Jesus Christ, you see how much food that guy eats.

[1656] But I'm like, who?

[1657] I go, oh, that's a guy.

[1658] I don't give it rats a ass.

[1659] What's what are you going to do?

[1660] And so I said, hey, why are you eating so much?

[1661] And he's, oh, oh.

[1662] He's, I go, are you on the gas?

[1663] What's going on?

[1664] And he's, oh, I'm like, yeah, on the gas, huh?

[1665] And he's, no, no, it's the worm, the worm.

[1666] Oh, I'm like, what the hell is he talking about?

[1667] Some type of Portuguese thing.

[1668] And he was in front of everybody.

[1669] And when I was in the hospital, David Isaac came and saw me quite a bit.

[1670] And he's like, don't you remember that time?

[1671] He was saying, why, why are you eating so much de worm, de worm?

[1672] He goes, it's a round worm.

[1673] And I'm like, wow, I never thought of that could be possible.

[1674] We were always eating dinners with all the Japanese people and everything.

[1675] Well, you could definitely get worms from food.

[1676] You know, and if you get tapeworms or round worms, like, that's a motherfucker.

[1677] Yeah, well, almost killed me. Infectious disease doctor came in with his badge and everything.

[1678] He goes, you know, you're down to like a couple days left.

[1679] Jesus Christ.

[1680] Yeah.

[1681] Especially with the medication you were on, right?

[1682] Yes.

[1683] The worms are flourishing.

[1684] So you get rid of that and they give you medication and now you have to get a kidney transplant after the liver transplant.

[1685] A piece of cake.

[1686] That was easy?

[1687] That was really easy.

[1688] So the liver one was the bad one.

[1689] Yeah, I did over 120 days in ICU.

[1690] Whoa.

[1691] What is that like?

[1692] Oh.

[1693] You know, I was laying there, and my wife told me, obviously, that they were saying, it's time for you to start thinking about taking them off, unplugging me. It's getting to that time.

[1694] And she said, this is like the surgical ICU floor, like they could do surgery right there in your room that you're in.

[1695] And at Cedar Sinai, Beverly Hills, yay!

[1696] Anyways, She's like the doctor, Dr. Toto, he came to her and said, hey, it's time for you to really start thinking about, does he want to live like this?

[1697] I guess she told me I was just laying there with a tracheotomy with my eyes open and nothing moving.

[1698] And she was there.

[1699] Anyway, so David Isaacs came there.

[1700] And they're going, yeah.

[1701] It was, he goes, I'm going away for the weekend.

[1702] I'll be back Monday.

[1703] And so they were talking about it, holding my hands.

[1704] And David Isaac said, have you ever seen Awakening?

[1705] I haven't seen it.

[1706] He goes, it was like awakening.

[1707] He goes, you had our hands.

[1708] And he goes, you just, you know, like your eyes came open and you started shaking your hands up and down.

[1709] And so they didn't unplug me. I'm still here.

[1710] Wow.

[1711] Was that close?

[1712] And you died five times.

[1713] Yeah.

[1714] Do you have any weird memories of that?

[1715] You know.

[1716] When you have cirrhosis, went to the doctor's hospital and made it out by my house and got a specialty doctor, digestive, whatever, GI doctor.

[1717] Okay.

[1718] So he put me in touch with Cedar Sinai.

[1719] You got to have a sponsor, someone to sponsor you to be allowed into the organ.

[1720] system there, transplants.

[1721] And so I went there and it was like a, you know, meetings and association type, you know, we're going to take you on.

[1722] And then they say, okay, we'll see you in two weeks.

[1723] You cannot drink anymore.

[1724] Don't drink.

[1725] You can't do it.

[1726] Not even a little bit, nothing.

[1727] You're done.

[1728] Not a problem.

[1729] And so...

[1730] I'm like, after a year, I'm like, man, what the hell is going on?

[1731] I mean, go there and they take your blood and go, okay, see you later.

[1732] Well, till the last time I went there, and you go in these little rooms and you get these like...

[1733] bed -type chairs, almost like dentist chairs, and they walk out and they take your blood, and then she walks in, the nurses and the doctor or assistants.

[1734] And all of a sudden, they get this panicked look on their face.

[1735] And mind you, I'd have been doing this for like a year, year and a half.

[1736] And I've met with the doctors, and the guy doctor said to me, he goes, I'll do surgery on you, but not until you lose weight.

[1737] And gave me like 50 pounds of lose.

[1738] I lost like 75.

[1739] You know, so they knew I was serious in about the whole nine yards.

[1740] And so.

[1741] There was like, I was sitting there in the chair, kind of like I am right now.

[1742] And usually it's kind of like, hey, how are you doing?

[1743] And, you know, what's going on?

[1744] Right.

[1745] But they were much more serious.

[1746] Very serious.

[1747] And I'm like, looking at my wife, like, what's going on here?

[1748] And, you know, she basically died with me during this whole time.

[1749] And I'm like, what's going on?

[1750] This is something's not right.

[1751] And she's like, I go, go out there and see what's going on.

[1752] And then she comes back and goes, oh, we're not going home.

[1753] I'm like, what are you talking about?

[1754] She goes, um, your kidneys aren't working.

[1755] And I'm like, oh, okay.

[1756] And...

[1757] Anyways, so I'm like looking at her like, what the fuck?

[1758] You know, what's going on?

[1759] And it was like the most alone I've ever felt in my life except for her.

[1760] And the doctor and the everybody are not making eye contact with me, not doing anything.

[1761] And a gurney comes in.

[1762] And they throw me on a gurney.

[1763] And I'm like, hey, hey, what's going on?

[1764] And they're like, they don't hear you.

[1765] They don't see you.

[1766] You just become like a log.

[1767] You know what I mean?

[1768] Your sensory...

[1769] void, you're non -existent.

[1770] And I remember being pushed out of the transplant centers across the street by the hallway underneath tunnel type thing.

[1771] I remember laying there and the fluorescent lights above me looked like freeway lane lights lines and I just remember laying there just going oh man this is this is a real deal you're dying consciously it was like I died it was like No one talked to me. No one heard me. No one saw me. Except for my wife bouncing back and forth trying to, hey, hey, what's this?

[1772] You'll be all right.

[1773] All right.

[1774] You'll be all right.

[1775] And I'm like just being pushed down this hallway to the hospital.

[1776] And I remember getting pushed into this room with all these machines.

[1777] It looks like the movies.

[1778] And I'm like, wow.

[1779] And I remember just laying on the bed there.

[1780] And...

[1781] Just going, oh, oh, oh.

[1782] And then my wife's like, you know, like comforting me. And I'm like, wow.

[1783] And to me, that's when I died.

[1784] And then I woke up with Isaacs and my wife there.

[1785] But I guess I was in that room for six days.

[1786] on the machines, and they were waiting for a transplant to come in, and one came in and told my wife, we got one, and she's like, oh, thank God, you know, and we're going to do surgery.

[1787] Well, it turned out somebody else was waiting for one also, and they were a better match.

[1788] And my wife said, they're a better match.

[1789] She's an angel.

[1790] She said, let them have it.

[1791] So the doctor came back in, she said, like six hours later.

[1792] And he said, all right, we're going to go to surgery.

[1793] And she's all, I think you're messed up.

[1794] even though you shouldn't be, but I think you messed up because we gave that other liver to somebody else.

[1795] No, liver.

[1796] Okay.

[1797] The kidney is later, my kidneys stopped working.

[1798] Okay.

[1799] So they put me on dialysis, I guess, and waited for six days.

[1800] And so she said, I'll know that they gave that liver to the other person that was the better fit.

[1801] And he's all, this never happens, but we got another one.

[1802] He's just never happened, ever.

[1803] And so they did me. And I was in a catatonic state for weeks and weeks and weeks.

[1804] And then they were talking about unplugging me. the dialysis machines and all that kind of stuff.

[1805] And then we go away for the weekend.

[1806] This is obviously conveyed to me from my way.

[1807] And take the weekend to think about what you want to do because, you know, this could be the best he gets right here.

[1808] And she said the whole floor knew that that was talk happened.

[1809] And she said everybody...

[1810] that she would walk down the floor with, their mood changed.

[1811] It said it was total darkness.

[1812] It was like she'd walk down the hall and everybody was usually, hi, Sally, hey, how you doing?

[1813] Right.

[1814] And she said they were just like, oh, poor girl.

[1815] Right.

[1816] And then Isaacs came in and she said they were both holding my hands.

[1817] And I woke up.

[1818] How has this experience changed your perspective about just life, knowing that it almost went away?

[1819] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1820] Now, I'm a totally different person completely.

[1821] I don't know.

[1822] So you're telling me when I first saw you today.

[1823] Yeah, yeah.

[1824] No, I'm not.

[1825] I used to be like a...

[1826] I hate to say it, narcissistic.

[1827] Like, I'm going to conquer the world, and now you can't mess with me. And now...

[1828] It doesn't matter.

[1829] Anything care.

[1830] Oh, you have that?

[1831] Good for you.

[1832] I'm glad for you.

[1833] You know, I don't know.

[1834] Sometimes maybe before all this, I'd be like, oh, man, that guy do that.

[1835] Oh, man, I got to do that.

[1836] I'm better than that.

[1837] I can do that.

[1838] Now it's like, good for you, man. Go out and mow down whatever.

[1839] Isn't that a way better way to interface with life?

[1840] Absolutely.

[1841] I wish more people could learn that lesson.

[1842] It took the hard way for me, but it's so unfortunate that so many people go around angry at other people's lives and thinking that they deserve what that other person has.

[1843] It's such a waste of time.

[1844] 100%.

[1845] It's so bad for you, too.

[1846] You're carrying around just a bunch of extra bullshit for no reason, and you're doing it to yourself.

[1847] Yes.

[1848] And, you know, with Dana, I...

[1849] I was in a dark, dark, dark place.

[1850] And just there's some medical things about that when you get ammonia in your blood.

[1851] And it makes you crazy.

[1852] Like they had like a warning thing around my room.

[1853] Like watch out for this guy.

[1854] Like I guess I kicked a physical therapist in the chest and all the stuff.

[1855] And I was ripping my cords out of me. But it's called encephalopathy.

[1856] And I would just, just like to my poor wife, to people that I've known for years.

[1857] I was just talking crazy nonsense, almost like Alzheimer's type.

[1858] They don't, and they, they would tell my wife, like, he's got ammonia in his blood, and his liver doesn't work, and it's poison in his brain, and he doesn't know what he's doing.

[1859] And I believe that I left, according to my wife, because she would listen to me on the phone.

[1860] I leave...

[1861] Dana Choice messages.

[1862] Dana White?

[1863] Yeah.

[1864] It's not funny, but it's funny if you realize how sick I was.

[1865] I thought I was going to die.

[1866] I mean, you know, I...

[1867] I was living the rock and roll lifestyle.

[1868] I used to joke around.

[1869] Rock and rollers couldn't even hang with me. Once I got into WCW, the whole, those guys live rock and roll lifestyle.

[1870] It's like an athletic rock and roll lifestyle, and I, as you can imagine, pushed it to the floor.

[1871] Pedal to the metal, man, I was getting down.

[1872] Was there ever a time where you were realizing that if I keep going, when was that?

[1873] When did it start feeling like that?

[1874] I use this.

[1875] Well, when I was wrestling, I mean, it was a rock and roll lifestyle.

[1876] Like you fly on a jet, boom, boom, boom, go for an eight -day loop, fly home, do your laundry, do your thing.

[1877] And...

[1878] That kept me from really taken off crazy.

[1879] Once WCW got sold and my contract was still valid and I had money coming in and a whole bunch of time.

[1880] So leaving Las Vegas with Nick Cage.

[1881] Why, he's the agent, and he gets fired from that show, or not show, but talent agency.

[1882] And he's like, ah, Ben Saunderson.

[1883] And he's like, what am I going to do now?

[1884] He'll go to Vegas.

[1885] I was Ben Saunderson after WCW was done, and I wasn't leaving every week to go somewhere new.

[1886] I was like, what am I going to do now?

[1887] And I go, I guess I'll just drink myself to death.

[1888] Not consciously, but that's what you were doing.

[1889] That's, I was, I was getting down.

[1890] So that's when the liver started failing.

[1891] No. My liver started failing when I went back to the UFC.

[1892] That's when I held on, man, I pulled a physical feat.

[1893] But when Dana called me to come back for the to do my comeback thing.

[1894] I'm like, sure.

[1895] And I kind of got into shape, shape.

[1896] But he flew me out to Atlantic City, I believe.

[1897] And he goes, okay, I need you to be down here tomorrow.

[1898] We're going to do a shoot in this whole nine yards.

[1899] And I pride myself on being responsible.

[1900] doing what I'm supposed to do and being there on time.

[1901] I'm one of those kind of people.

[1902] And so I go to wake up, and this is like, I'm coming back kind of thing, and I was supposed to be at this shoot.

[1903] I could not.

[1904] I was like, could not get out of bed.

[1905] I was that sick.

[1906] And I almost missed the whole show, like, just out of just crawling.

[1907] to get there and i got there halfway through the show and his agent or his person that worked for him came up to me and goes oh here you are where were you and i'm going oh man i just didn't feel very good i was i was awful like nauseous sick all the time so i think that's when your liver were starting to fail Yeah, there's stages.

[1908] And that's kind of, this is called a compensated liver, decompensated liver.

[1909] It was a...

[1910] compensated liver and it's like all the things where your liver stops working and you get sicker and sicker and that's when you start turning yellow they would pump my stomach or my cavity pull out like a couple two -liter things all the time.

[1911] It was just poison, just running through your body and like encephalopathy, going through your brain.

[1912] I was, I was a complete, crazy, like, you know, Ben Sonderson is the guy in leaving Las Vegas.

[1913] I make him look like a kindergartner.

[1914] I was that out of control.

[1915] I was insane.

[1916] I can look back and just go.

[1917] Have you thought about writing a book?

[1918] I have written a book, and I'm glad you brought that up, man. Thank you.

[1919] Is it out?

[1920] Yes.

[1921] It's a trilogy.

[1922] I wrote 900 -page trilogy.

[1923] Really?

[1924] Yeah.

[1925] Did you bring it?

[1926] Did you bring the book?

[1927] Yes, I did.

[1928] It's in my bag over there.

[1929] There's three of them.

[1930] The first one's called Bar Brawler, and it's about when it's 300 plus pages long.

[1931] It's about how the mid -80s and early 90s, how people used to be and how there's some really graphic fights in it.

[1932] Some people think it's an autobiography, but it's written as a novel.

[1933] Okay.

[1934] That's a good way to do it.

[1935] Yes.

[1936] And the main character is Walter Fox.

[1937] And Walter Fox, it's how Walter Fox goes through his life, beating people up at bars and all that, and ends up fighting in a show called NHB, and they call him Crazy Fox.

[1938] And it's how Walter Fox through all these trials and tribulations ends up as crazy Fox at the end of it.

[1939] It's a trilogy.

[1940] It's 900 pages long plus.

[1941] You write all this by yourself?

[1942] Yes, every single page.

[1943] I have a ghostwriter or anything.

[1944] Just sit in front of a laptop?

[1945] You write it up by hand?

[1946] I scribbled it out on a spiral notebook, a bunch of them.

[1947] Yeah?

[1948] And I hunt and packed the whole 900 plus pages.

[1949] Wow.

[1950] Three books.

[1951] Why didn't you just learn how to type?

[1952] I...

[1953] I, because I'm a dumb.

[1954] Well, you know, Hunter S. Thompson never really learned how to type?

[1955] Hunter S. Thompson was hunting and pecking when he was writing, like, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

[1956] I'm telling you this, especially if you're a fight fan, it's called Before There Are Rules.

[1957] And it's awesome.

[1958] I'm pumping myself up.

[1959] But if you want to know how a real fighter in my eyes...

[1960] Before there were rules.

[1961] Yes.

[1962] That's the third book.

[1963] The second book is Cage Fighter.

[1964] And the first book is bar brawler.

[1965] And it goes pretty much the whole, what we've been discussing, it goes through all of those things.

[1966] And where can people get these books?

[1967] They're on Amazon.

[1968] Okay.

[1969] And it's, some people think it's an autobiography.

[1970] Like I said, it's right.

[1971] It's fiction, folks.

[1972] Was it plausible deniability?

[1973] Yeah, exactly.

[1974] Fiction, folks.

[1975] And there's like the, there's a fighting promoter, matchmaker, and his name is Big Bart Shady.

[1976] And of that show, the NHB show, the referee's name is Winchell Duncan, and he's a little guy with a big ego.

[1977] And so...

[1978] You could draw parallels, but I don't tell you how to think.

[1979] But it's actually how Walter Fox got all the way through the bar scenes and everything that I discussed.

[1980] It's how Walter Fox ended up becoming crazy Fox.

[1981] Have you done a audiobook for this?

[1982] Yes.

[1983] Did you read it?

[1984] I listened to it.

[1985] Oh, okay.

[1986] Somebody else read it?

[1987] Somebody else read it?

[1988] No, it's, oh, yeah, no. It's on AI.

[1989] Oh, AI did it.

[1990] Yeah, it's pretty good.

[1991] I was worried about the inflection and everything.

[1992] Right.

[1993] It came out really good.

[1994] No, they're very sophisticated now.

[1995] It's pretty incredible what they can do now.

[1996] It's awesome.

[1997] David, thank you very much for being here, man. You're an American original.

[1998] You really are.

[1999] And it's been cool to know you all these years and you made the UFC a very exciting thing in the early days.

[2000] You were one of the big reasons for its early success.

[2001] Yes, I believe so.

[2002] I think so, too.

[2003] I think everybody thinks so.

[2004] I appreciate your brother and good health to you.

[2005] Likewise.

[2006] I hope you feel better.

[2007] Thank you very much.

[2008] Your website, anywhere else people can see your stuff?

[2009] Oh, yeah, no, just Amazon before there are rules.

[2010] Do you have a website?

[2011] Yeah, well, what's it called?

[2012] Instagram.

[2013] What's the Instagram?

[2014] What's the Instagram?

[2015] Tank.

[2016] Abbott.

[2017] Okay.

[2018] Yeah.

[2019] All right.

[2020] Anyways, yeah, like I said, I've had five strokes, so it's amazing that I'm even talking, so...

[2021] But what was I going to tell you?

[2022] There's my stress.

[2023] I don't know.

[2024] We were talking about website, Instagram, buy the books on Amazon, your Instagram, David, no, tank .com.

[2025] Oh, yeah.

[2026] Before there are rules.

[2027] The first word, you know, like I said, I wrote every single page of this book, the first word is misspelled.

[2028] So all you narcissists.

[2029] Preemptively blocking people getting mad at you from misspelling things.

[2030] No, no. I like, I put it out there as bait for all those narcissists to tell me how dumb I am.

[2031] Well, you could have just corrected it.

[2032] I've never spelled things all the time.

[2033] No?

[2034] No?

[2035] He's always playing games?

[2036] Yes.

[2037] All right.

[2038] Well, thanks, brother.

[2039] Thanks for being here, man. It's great to see you again.

[2040] It's a pleasure.

[2041] Thank you for having me. And again, best of health to you.

[2042] Bye, everybody.