The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett XX
[0] I wasn't experienced enough.
[1] I was too young.
[2] You were just branded thick.
[3] Nick Jones, the founder and CEO of Soho House.
[4] With an empire of private clubs around the world.
[5] It's the most see and be seen type of place.
[6] Not everyone gets it.
[7] Your upbringing is particularly compelling to me because you are somewhat counted out.
[8] I'm hugely dyslexia.
[9] People didn't understand that.
[10] You were just branded thick.
[11] Wow.
[12] There was not much choice for me. You've created a business which brings a lot of people joy.
[13] that first Soho House on Greek Street, why did it work?
[14] I wanted to prove that hospitality could be done differently.
[15] I can't think of a time where I was thinking about making an aspirational brand.
[16] I've always been obsessed about the member and that was always my number one thing.
[17] They've created that.
[18] If you don't make mistakes, you're not pushing yourself.
[19] You're not taking yourself out of your comfort zone.
[20] Maybe I was trying to prove to my family that I could do this and I think that's an invaluable lesson.
[21] At what point does that desire to prove something need to be contained because it might come at the expense of like life balance?
[22] A very good question and I think.
[23] So without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett and this is the Diary of a CEO.
[24] I hope nobody's listening.
[25] But if you are, then please keep this to yourself.
[26] Nick, thank you for being here.
[27] I have to say I'm a big fan of the business you've created and the business you've created and the, I know you don't like the word, but the brand you've built.
[28] For many, many reasons that I'm excited to get into, maybe because I'm a marketeer, but maybe also just because I'm a customer and someone that loves the Soho House brand.
[29] But where I wanted to start with you is where I always start.
[30] And your sort of origin story, your upbringing is particularly compelling to me because by many accounts, even your own, you were somewhat counted out.
[31] Is that true?
[32] well my childhood was I don't think I'd say I was counted out I was you know in a nice middle class family where I had two older brothers and a sister younger sister mum and dad um but my two older brothers um were you know they were the sort of stars they were they were they were great at school they were good at sport and I was a bit not so good at sport and not so good at school and And it was a sort of different sort of childhood that, I suppose, that they had.
[33] And, yeah, I think it probably put me in good stead.
[34] But at the time, it was probably quite tricky.
[35] When you say not so good at school, what do you mean specifically?
[36] Well, just really bad at exams.
[37] Yeah, I'm hugely dyslexic.
[38] And so I find spelling really difficult.
[39] I find pronunciation difficult.
[40] I find, you know, all sorts of things.
[41] difficult at school.
[42] I mean, I've since learned that dyslexia is the greatest thing to have, but at school it isn't.
[43] But I was lucky enough that my mum was all over it.
[44] And it was discovered that I was dyslexia at the age of 12, which is very young for a lot.
[45] People are still discovering, you know, contemporaries of mine are still discovering a dyslexic right now at the age I am, which is 58.
[46] So I was lucky and I got support and I sort of got through school by weird things like they'd give you extra hours on your exam.
[47] But I didn't need that.
[48] I only needed half amount of time anyway to fill up the paper because I didn't have enough information.
[49] So to get another hour was just another hour just fiddling around with your pencil.
[50] So yeah.
[51] The perception towards dyslexia today is it's quite a common thing and people understand it a bit better but back then I'm assuming people didn't really understand what it was or there was a stick was there more of a sticker?
[52] Yeah I think so you're just branded thick and you know because if you couldn't read or you couldn't write I mean my handwriting is still very not I try and avoid handwriting at every possibility so it's still really bad and I think, yes, because people didn't understand it there.
[53] But people understand it now and people talk about it and they should talk about it.
[54] And it's, to me, it's, you know, if you have dyslexia, you look at things very differently because you have to look at things differently.
[55] You have to simplify things.
[56] And by simplifying things, I think that gives you a different perspective on things.
[57] When I say counter -out, I mean more in the sense of you didn't believe that you would be a success when you were older, Because especially when you're at that young age, you assume that those that are getting the best grades and spell the best and do math the best are going to be rich and successful.
[58] And then there's us.
[59] There's everyone else.
[60] So at that young age, you didn't see, you didn't envisage you would be a quote -unquote success.
[61] I didn't think either way.
[62] I was just sort of thinking of just getting through school and I wasn't really planning that if I was going to be a success or not a success.
[63] And I think that's an interesting.
[64] interesting how you define success.
[65] And I don't think success is just been successful, you know, running a business or creating a business.
[66] I think it touches all sorts of things.
[67] Was there, when I was reading about your parents' dinner parties, that seemed to be the first inspiration for what you had later do in hospitality and restaurants and creating experiences for others.
[68] Was that the first sort of spark of inspiration for you?
[69] Yeah.
[70] I was, while my brothers were on the sports field, I weirdly liked doing the supermarket shop with my mum.
[71] You know, I found supermarkets fascinating.
[72] I found food fascinating.
[73] I then found the whole preparation of how to give people a good time, you know, fascinating.
[74] And, you know, I loved watching how you could create an environment where people had a laugh and fun.
[75] And was that what your parents were doing?
[76] Well, yeah, they've, not all the time.
[77] I mean, occasionally they did it, but when they did do it, it was, you know, I'd love to be part of them trying to create a fun evening.
[78] And I think that's probably where I suddenly realize that, you know, hospitality was the route for me. Because I, you know, we're going back a long, long time.
[79] You know, this was, you know, I'm 58 now and I was sort of 13 at the time.
[80] And, and I was, I used to, you know go to the local sports club and work behind the bar you know as a clean the glasses and weirdly I enjoyed that I enjoyed the interaction with people I enjoyed seeing people just have a have a nice time and back then people were not going into hospitality I mean it was really at the bottom of a ladder of of industries that people went into so I thought that was an opportunity it's funny because I've sat here with um Jimmy Carr and lots of comedians and when I hear about their sort of an inspiration for becoming a comedian.
[81] It tends to root back to them being younger and it being the thing that they would see create the most joy in their home.
[82] So in the case of Jimmy Carr and Russell Howard and a few of the other comedians I've sat with, they tell me the story about like the thing that would make my parents the happiest was when I would tell jokes.
[83] So that was this sort of psychological reinforcement that led me to be a joke teller for the rest of my life.
[84] And when I was reading about those dinner parties that your parents had, I was, and also confounded by the fact, that you said in your own words, you didn't feel like there was a lot of conventional avenues available to you because of your dyslexia, that that was the combination of factors that caused you to...
[85] Well, and I really had to, I mean, when I was at school, because I wasn't good at getting exams, I had to rule university out, I had to, there was not much choice for me. You know, there was a person with very few O levels, as they were called then, and And I think I got an E &A level.
[86] I scraped through on economics, I think.
[87] And, you know, with that, there was really not a lot of choice.
[88] And, you know, my career's master at school sort of said, I think it's catering, Nick.
[89] So when my career's master said that, I sort of thought, and also the fact that I thought there was a real opportunity in this.
[90] And my dad owned a small insurance broken company.
[91] and my brothers went into work there.
[92] And I think my dad was keen for me to go and work there, but I didn't find insurance very exciting.
[93] I still don't.
[94] And I didn't find that world of working in the city and insurance and being a insurance broker interesting at all.
[95] So I did have that as an opportunity, but I really felt I wanted to try hospitality and catering.
[96] As you started your journey into hospitality and catering, did you start to at any point figure out that you had some kind of area of brilliance?
[97] There was something you were good at compared to others.
[98] No, I remember clearly the first, no, the answer to that is definitely no. My first day, I worked for Trust House Forte.
[99] I was a management trainee and it was a five -year course.
[100] And I applied to the Savoy management training course to start with.
[101] And they, I remember it to this day, the interview I had.
[102] And I just froze.
[103] I couldn't speak.
[104] I was so nervous.
[105] I absolutely froze.
[106] And because I was a pretty shy kid.
[107] And, you know, I was shy at 17 when I was going for these interviews.
[108] And I just was, I just got stage fright.
[109] I just couldn't, my mouth, no words came out in my mouth.
[110] and I didn't get into the Savoy management course but then I applied for Trust House Forte and luckily when I went for the interview I was able to talk and I got onto a five -year course and my first part of the course was a year in the kitchens and it was at St George's Hotel in Langham Place which is just here in London off Oxford Street and I arrived and the chef looked me up and down and he called me a nickname, which I'm not going to say on this.
[111] It began with a sea.
[112] And he threw a sack of potatoes at me, which sort of landed in my belly, and he said, peel them.
[113] And so I went off to the area where you peel the potatoes.
[114] And I hadn't really ever used a knife before.
[115] And the first potato, I cut my finger, and I thought, oh God, how do I hide this?
[116] And the water, I was put.
[117] putting the potatoes in was getting redder and redder and redder.
[118] And I thought, oh no, this is my first day.
[119] And the nickname stuck.
[120] And I was really sort of learning on the job, which I think is a really great way to learn anything.
[121] And I kept making mistakes, but I was determined to sort of fit in to the kitchen because it was an environment, you know, because I came from this sort of cotton wall, middle class background.
[122] And then going into the kitchen into the early 18.
[123] where, you know, it was long hours and they, you know, someone who comes in with a slightly posh accent and, you know, they, they, they, they, they, it was, but it was a, it was a good moment.
[124] It was a good moment for me. Was it, um, what was it about that?
[125] Because that sounds pretty horrific.
[126] Sound, and I've, having worked in a kitchen, my, my mum had a restaurant at a very young age.
[127] I started working there at seven.
[128] Super high, stressful.
[129] People always complaining.
[130] It's hot in there.
[131] That and, I mean, people weren't throwing things at me and calling me the C word, but it wasn't, it was really unpleasant.
[132] So I'm wondering what in that context, like, despite of all of that, tickled your fancy.
[133] Do you know what it was?
[134] It was, I was coming out my shyness.
[135] I was learning how to get on with people.
[136] And, you know, I was, I went to a private school.
[137] I was surrounded by people who went to private school, which is 7 % of the population.
[138] And by going into the, the, the, the, um, kitchen, you really learnt to really get on with everyone.
[139] And I think that's an invaluable lesson.
[140] And I really became friendly with a lot of the chefs and would go out with them at night.
[141] And I just enjoyed it.
[142] And even though it was hard, I just enjoyed the environment.
[143] I enjoyed creating food.
[144] I enjoyed the buzz.
[145] I enjoyed, I didn't mind the heat.
[146] I didn't mind the fact that it was, it was long hours.
[147] I just enjoyed creating food.
[148] I enjoyed the buzz.
[149] I just enjoyed it.
[150] If I had spoken to maybe your colleague or someone that was maybe above you and a line manager at that time and said, what is Nick good at?
[151] What would they have said to me?
[152] I'd like to think, not peeling potatoes or making porridge, but, you know, getting on with people and being part of a team and getting stuck in.
[153] You said earlier that dyslexia is actually a great gift.
[154] Can you explain why you've now come to believe that that is a real sort of superpower for you?
[155] Well, I wouldn't say it's a superpower, but I talk a lot about dyslexic because I really want people to feel that if they get the tests and they're dyslexic, I don't want them to ever feel bad, I want them to feel good and go, well, this is a huge opportunity because I think when you look at things differently, and the reason, one thing being dyslexic, I have to simplify everything all the time.
[156] I have to, I have to, I want something on one sheet of paper.
[157] I don't want it on four sheets of paper.
[158] I want everything to be scaled down and simplified.
[159] And I think we live in a world where everyone's over -complicating things always.
[160] And it doesn't matter what area of the business I work in now, whether it's the designers or the chefs or the tech people, you know, it's all over -complicated.
[161] And I spend a lot of my time just editing down and simplifying it.
[162] And I think, being dyslexit has made me do that.
[163] you know, because it's the easy route, because complication panics me and confuses me. So I spend a lot of time simplifying.
[164] And I think when you do simplify things, people understand it, they get it, they like it.
[165] Yeah, it's so true.
[166] Someone once said to me that a phrase I always forget, which is if someone's ability to simplify something also correlates their ability to truly understand it.
[167] And typically when you meet these like salesmen that are trying to blag you in some way, they purposefully overcomplicate something.
[168] thing and sometimes they don't actually understand what they're saying, but distilling it to simplicity gets it closer to truth.
[169] And it's also a sign that the person communicating it really truly understands the essence of the idea or the concept.
[170] By 22, you started your own restaurant chain.
[171] Well, I went round lots of departments within Trust House Forte from front desk to bar to housekeeping.
[172] I was a housekeeper at the, you know, clean the rooms.
[173] at the Westbury Hotel in Conduit Street.
[174] I was a barman at Browns Hotel in Albemarle Street.
[175] I remember clearly, you know, serving, being the barman, and I remember making cocktails for George Best.
[176] That was a highlight of, you know, he was such a nice guy.
[177] And I suppose at that time, I always thought the determination was to open something, to open my own restaurant.
[178] This is, you know, I want to learn this.
[179] And then I ended up doing marketing at Trust House Forte.
[180] And then I was marketing manager at Grave at a house in Park Lane.
[181] And it wasn't because I was brilliant today.
[182] It was, you know, I was cheap.
[183] You know, I just was, I didn't just cost a lot of money.
[184] And that's what they were looking for at that precise moment.
[185] And, but I always, when I was working there, I was always working on a plan to, you know, not work for Trust House Forte, which was a big, big hotel company.
[186] And I was thinking, you know, I want to get out of this at some stage.
[187] I don't want to keep going on the ladder when, you know, you keep getting, hopefully I would have been promoted into other jobs.
[188] But, and then it would have been too difficult to leave.
[189] So I thought, I want to go when I'm still relatively at the bottom.
[190] And then I, I went and tried working in fast food restaurants or sort of casual restaurants.
[191] So I went to work to Maxwell's and Coven Garden as a night manager.
[192] I then went to work at Pasta Mania as a sort of junior manager.
[193] And then during that time, I was building my plan to open my first restaurant, which was called Over the Top.
[194] And that opened in 1988.
[195] And it was, you know, I was too young.
[196] I wasn't experienced enough.
[197] It was terrible.
[198] The design, which is something I'm obsessed with now And I love design, you know, and that was my first design outing.
[199] And it really was terrible.
[200] The food was, you know, really bad.
[201] You know, my friends had to come, you know, and that showed, I really knew who my friends were because they would come and support me in the restaurant.
[202] But it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was a good experience of getting something really wrong.
[203] It's not cheap to open a restaurant.
[204] How did you, how did you fund that at?
[205] Well, I, I, my, my dad put a bit of, money in, family friends put a bit of money in and I got the bank to put some money in.
[206] So I was lucky, you know, I was given that chance to be able to open my first restaurant.
[207] And it's something, you know, we do a lot now.
[208] I love people doing that.
[209] When anyone comes to me and wants to be an entrepreneur and start something up, I really make time to see them and help them.
[210] And, you know, I was lucky.
[211] I was given an opportunity.
[212] and, yeah, I learned a lot.
[213] That, I guess, would increase the pressure if you've got family betting on you.
[214] Yeah, I think they never made me feel like that.
[215] You know, my dad, you know, I think he was proud that I was trying to do something.
[216] I was trying to do something on my own because he had his own small business.
[217] But he never made me feel like that.
[218] And the other shareholders, you know, I think in their head, they, when they first came and tried the restaurant, they sort of probably knew that it wasn't going to lead anywhere.
[219] But actually, you know, the company is still the same company as it is today.
[220] It never went, it never went bust.
[221] We, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we're and Café Bohm in 92, which was really all the experience of getting over the top so wrong.
[222] And let me explain what over the top was.
[223] It was, you either chose a burger or a piece of chicken, a bit lamb or a steak, and over the top of it, you could choose one of ten sources.
[224] Right.
[225] But the sauces were terrible.
[226] And it was just, it was just bad.
[227] And, you know, it, it, it.
[228] it just sort of taught me, you know, how to manage a business with little cash and with no cash, how to pay the staff every week, how to use initiatives to try and get more customers in.
[229] And I think it taught me at a very early age, you know, marketing restaurants is not the way to solve a restaurant.
[230] You just have to make the restaurant good because the customer is so clever.
[231] They know what good is and they know what bad is.
[232] And it taught me that very early on.
[233] There was no way that you could, you can't fool a customer.
[234] They know.
[235] And you could walk into over the top and you could sort of feel, you know, you could sense that it wasn't, wasn't good enough.
[236] But what I learned at that time was it, it's sort of, it, I didn't feel it was a failure.
[237] I just thought it was, I was on a journey of learning.
[238] And I really, even now, encourage all our people that making a mistake is not a problem.
[239] You know, if you don't make mistakes, you're not pushing yourself.
[240] You're not trying.
[241] You're not taking yourself out of your comfort zone.
[242] And so, you know, I really encourage people to think that, you know, failure is not what it sounds like.
[243] You know, okay, it's just part of the journey.
[244] What did that process teach you about feedback?
[245] I asked that because in my first business, I was, I had this was a tech business.
[246] and I was very romantic about this hypothesis, about the way that I thought my customers would behave and about the solution that I thought that they would care about.
[247] And I spent too long not listening to their feedback and ultimately that was pretty fatal.
[248] And I just wish earlier I'd been less romantic and stubborn almost about what I thought the customer would want and listen.
[249] But I'm wondering what that first failure taught you about, the importance of what feedback you listen to and how you listen to it.
[250] Well, I think feedback's key.
[251] and people've been on it's funny being being a Brit people are funny about complaining aren't they they they're in restaurants they they think it will offend you they they they think well I'm not gonna I can't complain to Nick about I had a bad meal last night because he might be you know that might upset him but to me you know you can only get better by getting really honest feedback and I'm lucky now because I have members who all have my email address and and you know they're they they're not happy they they they they email me. So I think listening to feedback is super super important.
[252] Did you listen to it and at over the top?
[253] Well, I could just see it because there wasn't many people to give feedback to I wish there was more customers in there giving me feedback.
[254] But you know, people did give feedback and but I didn't have the tools to be able to get it better.
[255] I didn't know you know, I started going down a sort of because we kept running out money so you know you kept cutting cutting the you know the team down so there just wasn't you know at the end it was sort of just me in the kitchen serving and we even set up a delivery service to try and try and try and booster sales but that didn't work I was so really inspired by you saying that the customer is smart and also you alluded to the fact that the best marketing his word of mouth.
[256] Yeah, absolutely.
[257] That really is at the heart of what you even do today is a belief in the customers.
[258] Yeah, I'm very lucky that we have fantastic members who are loyal and, you know, they, you know, if anyone says that we've done okay or I've done okay, it's for thanks to our members.
[259] And, you know, are members of the people who pushed me from doing Sewer House, you know, the original Soir House on Greek Street, where, you know, it worked.
[260] There were hairy moments, you know, when I thought it really wasn't going to work.
[261] And, you know, it would go quiet or it would go, you know, I remember the first year we opened in May, it was suddenly gone quiet.
[262] We'd opened in January.
[263] I thought, oh, God, that, I thought it would, last a bit longer than this.
[264] And, you know, a member turned around to me and said, wouldn't it, they're all down at the Canfield Festival.
[265] You know, that's where your members are.
[266] So I suddenly thought, well, next year, I'm going to go down and create a pop -up down there.
[267] And this was pre -pop -ups.
[268] You know, this was in 96.
[269] And so we rented a boat in the harbour.
[270] And I remember, in fact, I remember clearly because there was a lady who still works for us to this day, veronique and her and i had to fill up this lorry full of stuff in london to drive down to i didn't drive a lorry because i couldn't drive a lorry but to go down to the south of france can and we opened this boat and it was like a temporary club for the ten days of a can film festival and members you know if they weren't in london they could come to the club in in the the boat in the harbour and that we did that for lots of years and it was i think our members really enjoyed that and that sort of taught me me again, wherever the member was going, go.
[271] So, you know, because if I hadn't, you know, I was, I didn't understand the film business or the media business.
[272] I was in catering hospitality.
[273] So I was, I was sort of new to this.
[274] And, you know, when I first created the first ever committee at our house, you know, I was really knocking on doors and phoning people cold calling then saying, do mind.
[275] And you had to sort of explain what you were trying to do to get them to come on the committee.
[276] and that was where our first 500 members came from and I think there I've always just listened to the member they kept saying well Nick it's great this one why didn't you do one in the country and I go let's do one in the country then so off I go I phone Savils up and I say any hotels for sale I didn't have any money but I thought well I'm going to go on that route and see how I could I could get, get somewhere in the country.
[277] And I remember stumbling across Babington House.
[278] And I remember it was, it was on the market for, you know, a million, million and a half pounds.
[279] This was back in a long time ago.
[280] And I remember driving up a drive.
[281] And as soon as you drive up the drive at Babington, you sort of fall in love of a place.
[282] and I fell in love with a place and I thought, oh my God, how am I going to get planning permission to turn this into a hotel and how am I going to have enough money to buy it?
[283] I had just a small amount of money just to put the deposit down.
[284] And luckily, the people who are selling it, they said, well, we want to stay here for the summer.
[285] We want to exchange and then we will complete in nine months' time.
[286] I thought, yes, you know, and then it gave me nine months to find the money and get the planning permission and raise the money with our members to pay for the completion and also to pay for the refurbishment.
[287] And I sort of just remember even before we exchanged, the agent phoned me up and said, you know, a higher offer has gone in.
[288] So I was sort of being gazumped and I thought, well, I don't have the money anyway so I can put another couple hundred grand on it because of, and so I increased my offer.
[289] I got Babington House and, you know, I was able to raise the money.
[290] And we rose the money through our members, you know, lots of members put sort of five grand in.
[291] And that's how I was able to get the money to open Babington House.
[292] So it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a, led by our members sort of crowd the members helped invest in it you know they luckily have all got their money back plus plus and you know then that was the second thing we opened that first soho house on Greek Street why did it work you know I was running the restaurant downstairs Cafe Boem that was my survival Cafe Boem was you know it was the same companies over the top It was, it was, it was me doing everything totally different to what over the top was.
[293] So the food was edible and nice.
[294] The service was good.
[295] The atmosphere, you know, and if I was in there last night and it was, you know, it made me very happy because it was packed and it was fun.
[296] And when the building came up available above Cafibur, which is on Greek Street in London, I, the land all phoned me up.
[297] and they said, well, do you fancy taking the space above?
[298] And I go, well, what on earth for?
[299] You know, there was no plan to do a private members club.
[300] My plan was just to survive and make Café Bowen work after four years of attempting over the top.
[301] And I still do this today.
[302] I always look at everything.
[303] When people phone me and say, there's an idea, I was going to have a look.
[304] And so I said, okay, well, I'll go and have a look.
[305] So I wandered around the offices, and it was a small door, you know, on Greek Street, 40 Greek Street and I thought, hmm, and I hadn't been to a private members club.
[306] You know, I wasn't, I wasn't part of the Groucho Club.
[307] I wasn't part of that, that, well, it was only the Groucho Club, although all those clubs down in Palmaal.
[308] I wasn't part of that.
[309] Maybe that's a good thing.
[310] Yes, and I, and I look around it, I was, oh, God, this is like a home away from home.
[311] And, and, you know, God, this is, this is, this, could work how could I'm you know this this this this is an idea so but I didn't have any money so again and um I went to see um my landlord which is Paul Raymond and I went to see him and he said well you do you want to take it and I said well yeah I'd love to take it but what could would you invest because the family investment and for over the top they had had totally enough they they they were out you know the banks were trying to pull out of, you know, trying to get their loan back.
[312] It was, that bit of it was, you know, just, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, that bit of the family help was done, finished.
[313] And so I thought, well, how am I going to raise the money for this?
[314] Because it's going to be separate.
[315] I'm going to have to do this separately to what Cafe Boem is.
[316] And so I went to see Paul Raymond, he said, I'm not investing.
[317] I don't invest in other people's businesses.
[318] And then it was when I was.
[319] leaving he said well what happens if i put the money in but just added it to your rent so you ended up with a higher rent you know a percentage of the money he put in was added to my rent and and i thought well to do the fit out to do the fit out um i thought okay well that sounds like it can work so i set up so a house it was it was simple to come up with a name it was a house in Soho.
[320] The logo was pretty simple.
[321] It was so simple.
[322] It was free buildings, free floors.
[323] And I, and I, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I, and, and, and, my, my, my, my, my family didn't want anything to do with it.
[324] And, and, and, and, and, and the other investors.
[325] And I thought, well, you know, when so house works, I'm going to transfer everything back to the, you know, the same percentages as it was as, when it was over the top so I merged the two companies so I didn't want I didn't want to be a success on one hand on Soho and they were suffering on Café Boe M and over the top so we merged it all together and we found the members and and you know a lot of the people who open Sewer House in 95 still a part of Soher House still work You know, the guy Pierre, who was a server in the blue dining room, the blue room in the restaurant, now runs North America for us.
[326] And Marcus Anderson, who runs our membership, part of our membership team, who was a server in one of the dining room.
[327] And so the guy, Marcus Barwell, was a barman in the circle bar.
[328] Now he's managing director of cell house design.
[329] So it's lovely seeing, you know, people who were right there at the beginning still be part of a company now.
[330] And it, but it was, it was a journey as well.
[331] It was, we were moving into this sort of new area, membership, understanding membership, understanding, looking after people and, and just listening to your members because I'm sort of going back to your original sort of feedback question.
[332] So the feedback, which comes from our members, is sort of, really helped us where we are today.
[333] Was Café Boem's successful when you embarked on the house journey upstairs?
[334] Yes, but it was having to be on top of the disaster of Soa House.
[335] So it was quite a lot of sort of, it was the same company.
[336] And so, yes, it worked.
[337] Cafe Bowen worked.
[338] It You know, it was 30 years ago.
[339] So, and there weren't many places.
[340] I don't think there were many places which were opened at 8 in the morning and closed at 3 in the morning.
[341] And you could go in there and eat whatever you wanted or just have a coffee or just have a drink.
[342] The kitchen was always open.
[343] You could, you know, drink jugs of beer or you could have a state freight or and we had jazz in the afternoons.
[344] It was really creating.
[345] It sort of really created a real regular following within Soho.
[346] And it was the turning point, really, of the disaster of over time.
[347] So when you look back then on that Soho House, a lot of people, I'm sure, started very similar style businesses around the time.
[348] I'm trying to figure out why So House went on to become what it is today.
[349] What were the fact is that, in your view, you said talked about customer feedback, shaping everything.
[350] Well, I would give that accolade to our member.
[351] I would say it was the members who pushed me and when we opened in New York because I think we'd open the electric house we were about three then and someone said well you should open in New York I'd love this and I thought ooh yes maybe so off I go to New York and determined to open a shower house in New York first of all look in the redistrict of Soho and couldn't find something going came close it was difficult learning permitting it was it was just difficult and um i remember we found the warehouse it was an old electrical warehouse and meatpacking and meatpacking was a very different place to what it is now um it was run down it was you know it was it was full of sort of it was full of really interesting life.
[352] And I remember we found this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, I'm going to get, get the warehouse.
[353] And again, we had to raise the money to do it.
[354] So it was a question of trying to, um, how do you get raise money in New York?
[355] Because we, we, we, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, I, I think it might have been a recession going on.
[356] So, the banks were, you're not going to, we're not lending your money in New York.
[357] So I thought, okay, well, I've got to start raising money again from our members and from people in New York to put money into the Sowah House in New York.
[358] And it was, everything was nerve -wracking.
[359] You know, the week I was flying out there to try and get the permit to be able to allow to open a club in the, in a warehouse, was 9 -11.
[360] So I arrived on, I think it was a Monday evening.
[361] And I was nervous.
[362] because it was this big, big meeting on the Thursday where in front of a local community board to see whether we'd get permission to be able to open up a club and have a license in this premises.
[363] And I was having breakfast on the Tuesday morning, 9 -11, and I was having a boiled egg.
[364] I remember it.
[365] And as I was hitting my boiled egg, I heard this big bang.
[366] And I thought, what is that?
[367] So I run out on the street and I looked up and I could see one of the Twin Towers with smoke coming out of it.
[368] And I asked, there's a guy sweeping the street and I said, well, what happened?
[369] He said, well, a plane went into the side of it.
[370] And I said, well, was it just a, what did it look?
[371] He said it was an airliner.
[372] So it wasn't like a private plane.
[373] And I thought, oh, my God.
[374] So the first thing I did was phone Kirstie, my wife.
[375] because she was in news then she was a news presenter on ITN and I said I think maybe you should get into work there's something going on here and then and then I was still out on the street and I saw the second plane go in you saw it coming in from the river so you didn't actually see it coming in but you saw the impact of it coming in and and then you know that day was it made me really fall in love with you York.
[376] It's sort of the resistance of the people, how they cope with it, how they, it was, it was amazing the people of New York that day and that, that week.
[377] And anyway, weirdly, the community board still happened on the Thursday.
[378] And I went up and did my presentation.
[379] I said, I don't know why I'm doing this.
[380] It seems irrelevant.
[381] It seems not.
[382] not something we should be doing but you know you're running the meeting there was a lot of other points on the agenda so I was just one of them and we got our permission and that's how new york started but it was a big big sort of race to find the finance and I was calling everyone I was I was cooling everyone I did more show rounds of that that that that that warehouse building and running up and down the stairs, showing people around, trying to be enthusiastic.
[383] And then, you know, I was sort of getting to know people in New York and I put together this hard -hacked dinner where I don't know how it happened and I don't know why it happened.
[384] But, you know, the really well -known people turned up to this dinner.
[385] And we had just had a sixth burner on the sixth floor and we cooked some chicken and we laid up the table in the building site with a white tablecloth so it was real grit and glamour and it was and these people just turned up and I remember David Bowie been there and I'm going and I remember I was so nervous I was I I and I I started talking to him and he said this is a great idea can I buy it?
[386] And I said, well, there's nothing to buy at the moment, but can you invest in it?
[387] Yes.
[388] And so he was one of the investors of Sewer House, New York, which was fantastic.
[389] And then momentum came, and we raised the money.
[390] Everyone sort of before that was saying a private members club wouldn't work in New York, you know, people wouldn't pay a membership fee, people treat their restaurants like private members clubs, and the velvet rope was the big thing in New York.
[391] And I wobbled so often about should we charge for membership.
[392] And I was so nervous opening so high as New York.
[393] And I remember the opening party.
[394] And it was raining, and they hadn't finished putting the roof on.
[395] And people were staying in the hotel and there was no water.
[396] So we had to borrow the showers at the local gym.
[397] People had to go down to the local gym for hot water.
[398] We had water, but there was no hot water.
[399] And it was just this roller coaster of an experience opening in New York where we didn't quite have enough money.
[400] And, you know, the team, you know, we were carrying sheetrock or it's plasterboard over here and sheetrock over there, up to the floors to try and finish them, putting the ceilings in.
[401] And it was a journey.
[402] But then eventually we opened and it worked.
[403] It sort of people sort of took to it.
[404] Why bother?
[405] You know, like you had a great business here in London.
[406] You know, things are going well.
[407] Why put yourself through all that pain?
[408] A very good question.
[409] And I think I could have just carried on doing things in London.
[410] But I, there was an ambition in me. There was, you know, there was this thing.
[411] about being a Brit and going to New York and trying to take the thing which I loved in London and see if it worked in New York.
[412] And it was, and it, and at points, it nearly took the whole thing down.
[413] And, but I really felt at the time that if it did bring the whole thing down, at least I tried.
[414] At least I gave it a go.
[415] And I wasn't going to be sitting in a rocking chair, thinking I didn't give it a go.
[416] So I think there was a sort of inner something in me, which wanted to see.
[417] And maybe it was sort of going back to my childhood when my brothers were so good on the sports field or good at school.
[418] I was trying to prove a point.
[419] Because I sense that a lot, even when you had this successful cafe, for you then to take the risk of taking upstairs with an unknown idea just because someone said it's available.
[420] And it's that, you know, some people are more like the, I don't know, they stay within the zone of comfort and they just harvest, but you have this hunting sort of predisposition as well, even when things are going well.
[421] So, what, I, there's something inside me. Maybe I was trying to prove to my brothers, my family, that I could do this.
[422] And, yeah, I do always look at things in a positive light.
[423] I do look at things, you know, if I look at a glass of water, I'd say, that's half full, not half empty.
[424] And, and, and, and, and, hospitality.
[425] I wanted to prove that hospitality could be done differently.
[426] And I think with Cafe Boem, where we opened it all day and it was chameleon, it just kept changing to the time of day it was and putting jazz on in the afternoon and just sort of making it much more customer -focused where you would go out 40 years ago and kitchens would close at 2pm and you couldn't eat in the afternoon.
[427] And I think that was something, I felt I was onto something to be able to make it better for the customer.
[428] And that sort of took me back to when I liked helping my mum and dad when they had people around for supper.
[429] And I loved seeing rooms full of people having a good time in Cafe Boem.
[430] And I loved laughter.
[431] I loved people connecting with each other.
[432] I loved people enjoying themselves.
[433] And I think I just thought, why don't I just carry on doing this?
[434] At what point does that desire to prove something?
[435] need to be contained because it might come at the expense of like life balance you know this question I've asked myself a lot it's like when you are successful in one thing you have more opportunities to go and do more things and then you might end up being pulled so much by your ambition and your desire to prove a point or your insecurities that you then end up compromising all of these other things like friendships and the other things that make life fulfilling yeah and it's a it's a balance I'm never quite got right.
[436] And I'm super lucky.
[437] I have an incredibly supportive wife, Kirstie.
[438] And she sort of really went on the journey with me. And I know without her, you know, I wouldn't be, you wouldn't be asking me onto this podcast.
[439] And, you know, so she's been a great support and my kids, you know, were sort of part of, you know, they had to come to work.
[440] They, you know, when I was doing the rounds on a Saturday morning or during weekends, I'd have push chairs and toddlers and, you know, they were just part of what was going on.
[441] And it had to sort of merge into one thing.
[442] And what I've successfully done is try and demurge it.
[443] and have, you know, a, when I'm at work, I'm at work, and when I'm at a family, I'm with family.
[444] And that, but that's taken a long time.
[445] So the, the balance is something, I think, all entrepreneurs suffer.
[446] When you say it's a balance you've not got right, what was the indicator that you didn't get it right?
[447] How do you know you didn't get it right?
[448] What was the symptom?
[449] I was always knackered.
[450] I was always sort of pretending not to be.
[451] I was always sort of, yeah, yeah, it was, yeah, I was internally coping with all the pressure where I could, but I wasn't doing that very well.
[452] So I think it was sort of a combination of just realizing that, you know, this was all consuming.
[453] It was, it was really dragging.
[454] And I was very lucky I had, you know, grateful.
[455] friends who are still my friends from when I was a kid.
[456] And I didn't see them enough.
[457] And you sort of, in our business, hospitality, it is weekends, it's nights, it's days, it's, it's, it's, it's all the time.
[458] And when you take it to a different country, then you have to think, well, the days just got longer and it's got five years, you know, go to New York, got five hours longer.
[459] And so, yes, it does take.
[460] take its toll.
[461] What is that toll?
[462] You said about coping with pressure.
[463] Well, I think, you know, I sit here today and I think I'm lucky because I think I got a great, you know, I have great relationship with my kids.
[464] I, you know, it's my favorite thing.
[465] It's been with the family and being being, being with them all together.
[466] So, but I think at times when you're trying to prove yourself, I'm trying to prove that I could work in New York and America.
[467] I was trying to prove that we could open sewer houses and other parts of the world.
[468] I think it was hard, but you know, you suddenly then do realize that you have to sort of balance it.
[469] Was there points in your journey that it was particular, so the pressure becomes so much and you almost feel within your being, whether it's your health gives out or your mental health or you get anxious where you think, this is not this is not sustainable i i i never thought it wasn't sustainable because i'm always such a positive person but i think you know cursory was great you know she kept saying you know we don't need anymore this is we don't need another house the world doesn't need another house nick you know for the you know you don't need to be on a plane all the time what who you what are you trying to prove.
[470] And there was a stage where I was buzzing around everywhere, flying here, flying there, and thinking it was all making a big difference.
[471] But really, and I think the pandemic taught me that, was the fact that there was better ways of using your time.
[472] And what are those better ways of using your time?
[473] Well, you know, instead of buzzing around on a plane all the time and spending 12 hours in a city and then going to another city or doing one night and one, And you sort of wear, you know, the teams are clever enough to put on a bit of a show for that period of time.
[474] So you're not actually seeing really what's going on.
[475] And it was just smarter ways of doing it.
[476] And also having a lot more trust in the senior leadership team and letting them get on with it and thinking I didn't have to be everywhere for it to work.
[477] And actually, often, it worked much better when I wasn't around.
[478] And, I mean, I, you know, because they were able to just get on with it, not worry about what I was thinking all the time.
[479] That sounds like great advice for a younger version of Nick at the start of the Soho House journey.
[480] What else would you say now in hindsight, you wish someone had, maybe they said it, but you'd wish you had known about how to achieve, get to where you are now or further, but in a more effective, whether that relates to health or finance way.
[481] What would be that advice you'd give to that, Nick, starting out on the soya house journey?
[482] Well, I've always been obsessed about the customer, the member, and that was always my number one thing and the people who work for us.
[483] They were my two obsessions.
[484] And the advice I think I'd give to a young, young Nick would be, you know, let them take more.
[485] Don't think you have to, you know, your team, you know, put it more onto your team to get on with you.
[486] it and don't try and do everything yourself.
[487] And also, you know, there's a, there's a point when you have, can prove yourself that you can, these things can work globally.
[488] And, you know, there's a time when, you know, you have to really properly delegate and let other people get on with it.
[489] What are the, you know, because one of the things that So House is known for is this, quote unquote, brand.
[490] And I know you don't like that word, but this very, I think I would say it was an aspirational brand.
[491] People want to be a house person.
[492] How much intentionality, I don't even know if that's a word, has gone into making that brand aspirational?
[493] I can't think of a time where we had a time where I was thinking about making an aspirational brand.
[494] I think it, that's and if that's people's perception, great.
[495] I'm really, I'm, I'm, I'm, that sounds good.
[496] And I, I, I, I, I, I concentrated on what our members wanted and, um, they've created that.
[497] They have created the, the, the, the, the, the fact that, you know, there's a desirability to be part of our house.
[498] And yes, we, and we, and we got a brilliant team, brilliant membership teams globally.
[499] We got, we got, we got people who really care, people who have been on the journey for a very long time.
[500] And I think with their help and with every house, we have a determination to make it better than the last house.
[501] You know, we always start with a fresh piece of paper.
[502] We don't think, well, you know, let's just keep, repeat, repeat, repeat.
[503] We go new, new, how can we make it better?
[504] What are we going to change to make this better?
[505] What are we going to change to make it more efficient?
[506] What are we going to change to make it better for the member?
[507] And I think our members really appreciate that.
[508] And they see that and they talk about that.
[509] And that's probably what's created, what you have just described.
[510] What does in hospitality talk you about life?
[511] Everything.
[512] I sort of think, you know, it should be the national service.
[513] People should go and do a year in hospitality.
[514] Because I think it teaches you so much.
[515] I mean, I spoke earlier about me going into that kitchen and really learning how to get on with people.
[516] and from different backgrounds, different countries, different everything.
[517] And I think it really teaches you to be part of a team and there's a customer, there's all your people you work with in the kitchen or the person cleaning the dishes or the person, you know, cleaning the rooms, you all have to work together to make it happen.
[518] And I think so it really takes the shyness out of you and it gives you an ability to get on with people, which I think is a really useful tool.
[519] I think it's better than a mass degree, I think getting on with people.
[520] I think you learn, you know, just useful, practical things like making a bed or keeping the place tidy or clearing a table of plates.
[521] And when you've got a family gathering or something, you can suddenly clear the plates and stack them up, or you can make a cocktail, you know, which is really nice.
[522] You know, that doesn't, even if you're not in hospitality anymore, you can still make a cocktail, you can still make a bed, you can still hopefully get on with people, you can still, you know, clear a table.
[523] You have to become quite organized in your mind.
[524] And I think hospitality is a very rewarding industry for that.
[525] Hospitality is quite a broad term, but at the crux of it, what do you think it is that you're actually selling to people?
[526] What are they buying from you?
[527] Well, I think what we want our member to do is flourish.
[528] You know, we want them to flourish socially and we want them to flourish, you know, at work.
[529] And I think creating memberships and, you know, that word community of people who are sort of light -minded and they all have a creative soul and you put them in one house, you know, that.
[530] is like, you know, they bump into each other, they talk to each other.
[531] I've seen businesses created.
[532] I've seen relationships created, friendships created, friendships created, ideas created.
[533] And I think when you put people together in a space and that is pretty special and to see that happen in different countries and different cities, to see members sort of really using the fact that you go into the house, You can just go into the house on your own, just wander down there.
[534] And, you know, you'll bump into someone.
[535] You'll start having a drink with someone or a cup of coffee with someone.
[536] Or you, and you're sort of, you're in the house.
[537] You're part of that membership.
[538] And I, you know, people do it, you know, a lot now.
[539] And, you know, you can do it digitally and they use algebraans and they use all sorts of things.
[540] And I think, you know, being part of so house and, you know, those 500 members I talked to you about earlier, you know, they're still part of us.
[541] They still pay their membership.
[542] They're still here.
[543] They're still part of it.
[544] They don't give it up.
[545] And so on one hand, the original founder members of 27, 28 years ago.
[546] And then on the other hand, you got, you know, huge under 27 membership going into our houses.
[547] You're huge, you know, accounts from 20 to 23 % of our overall membership, you know, under 27s.
[548] And it's seeing an arrangement.
[549] room, you know, the most successful scriptwriter in one corner.
[550] And in another corner, there might be the struggling script writer who's still trying to write, you know, their first script or, you know, a really well -known artist or an artist who hasn't sold a new painter who hasn't sold their first bit of work.
[551] And, you know, and taking that and trying to think, well, how can the person who's done it help the person who wants to do it?
[552] And you know, that's why I'm so passionate about our mentoring scheme.
[553] You're where, you know, there is so much creativity in the world and there's so much creativity, you know, and creativity is not owned by the middle class.
[554] It's everywhere.
[555] And to be able to offer mentoring to people who are less fortunate who might not be able to afford a membership or might not know what door to not to get that opportunity.
[556] is sort of one of the favorite things that we're doing, my favorite things I'm doing at the moment, is seeing it happen.
[557] So going back to what you were saying about creating people in a room who all help each other.
[558] They all feel like they're looking out for each other.
[559] They all want to help the person who's down on their luck or who is starting out or they want to help the, you know, they want to create an idea with another bunch of members.
[560] And I think that, that is, that is special.
[561] And it goes back to seeing people in a room having a great time.
[562] And if our members can flourish in, in their lives, if Sarah Has can just make their lives just a little bit better, then I think that's a good thing.
[563] Are you naturally shy person?
[564] I think so.
[565] Because it's funny, because when I meet entrepreneurs, there's various different types of entrepreneur.
[566] and once in a while I meet an entrepreneur and a founder that's created a really great business but it's quite, I think the word is unassuming as in they're not very self -promoting you know, you ask them certain questions about what their brilliance is for example and they don't necessarily point it themselves, they tend to defer it to others so it just made me it's curious because it's kind of unconventional to meet an entrepreneur that's so, that feels so unassuming in a sense in terms of not having a huge ego I guess.
[567] Because the question I was going to ask you, and my head was going, he's probably not going to, he might defer this to something else.
[568] Is you've created such an amazing business.
[569] And it's such a wonderful brand.
[570] And it's admired by people that are customers and that aren't customers, just for the business.
[571] But I can't seem to get you to tell me why you, out of everyone else that was trying to do this, were successful.
[572] Because I've got the ambition piece.
[573] I've got that persistence and that persistence that comes from that childhood sort of maybe chip on your shoulder, but I know there's more.
[574] Well, I can only tell you what I'm, I think.
[575] And I, what I do think is, you know, I love what I do.
[576] I'm lucky.
[577] I get up every morning.
[578] I have a skip in my, you know, I'm skipping around.
[579] I'm looking forward to getting to work I have a fantastic team around and you know I care deeply and if that all adds up to it working that's the reason why because it was never for me a money play it was more a thing that I wanted to try and make hospitality you know and that is a I used to say catering but I've upgraded it to hospitality and and to make hospitality a sort of area where you can change it.
[580] You can, you know, when we open Babington House, you know, it was the first country house hotel where you could get breakfast when you wanted when there was no rules.
[581] It was, it was, you know, your bedroom at Bammington House probably nicer than your bedroom at home.
[582] So people would come down and go, well, Nick, you know, where do you get that TV?
[583] Where do you, sky?
[584] That's new.
[585] I'm going to put sky in my house.
[586] or I'm going to where do you get those sheets and and so I'm not trying to avoid your question here but I'm just trying to again answer how I feel and why I do it I did get something more from that which is just your care yeah how much you care and your passion and your care seem to have a relationship together but and that's that's so important because a lot of people would be launching it for money and then therefore they'd care about something else whereas you really seem to care centrally about the customer experience more than anything else Well, I think I always say to our team, if our people are happy and the members are happy, then sort of everything else will look after itself because your places will be busy.
[587] And if you're smart and your cost control, everything else should be fine.
[588] Do you think you're a success?
[589] I think I said earlier, you can judge success in lots of ways.
[590] You know, I'd much moreover be judged as a father.
[591] than as someone who runs a business and you know i suppose you'd have to ask my kids that professionally do you think you're a success i people tell me a lot and i i suppose i have to listen to them in in in their eyes i'm i i i've done all right in you know i i'm still there i'm still you know we're still growing it's you know sales go up you know it's it's it's it's a good business.
[592] In your eyes?
[593] I think so.
[594] I think of I was to be honest.
[595] I couldn't sit here and look at you in your eyes and say, no, I don't see what I've done as something which isn't successful because it works.
[596] And when things work, I presume that's a success.
[597] And so what's next then for you?
[598] I mean, tremendous business all around the world.
[599] And it's becoming so much more than just houses.
[600] What is the big next mental challenge, ambition, excitement?
[601] Well, we're really, recently public, and, you know, we went public during the pandemic.
[602] I'm enjoying that challenge.
[603] Really?
[604] Yes, I'm enjoying it.
[605] I'm enjoying dealing with, you know, and I view all the analysts as smart, and I think it's making us a better business.
[606] And I think, you know, so there's a journey on that, you know, we're only 12 months into it.
[607] And people understanding that it's a subscription, recurring income, that, you know, a third of our revenues come from membership and our hotels, our bedrooms are always nicely full and we don't have to use what other hotels have to use to fill their hotels like booking engines, etc. So I think that is an interesting future on how to be properly successful as a public company.
[608] And there's, So many more places we can open houses.
[609] You know, we haven't even touched Africa.
[610] We've only dipped our toe into Asia.
[611] We got, we're going to Latin America later this year to open in Mexico.
[612] So there's a lot of exciting new houses opening and being a public company and just trying to get better every day.
[613] We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the previous guest leaves a question for the next guest.
[614] and the previous guest has left you a question.
[615] They have written, they obviously don't know who they're writing it for, but here we go.
[616] If you could go back in time and change one specific moment in your life, what would that be and why?
[617] Ooh, I would definitely have come up.
[618] I definitely would still would have done over the top.
[619] I would have done that.
[620] one specific thing I think I would have I would have tried to get my life at my balance between life and family a bit better why because you know running at a hundred miles an ad overtime doesn't always sort of you know achieve everything so I think and I've talked on the behalf of many entrepreneurs and many CEOs and who just get a bit obsessed and about their world their business and I think you know you you're slightly better of it if you're not so if you have a more balance for you yeah I was actually talking to one of my friends about this last night that you'll know that runs one of the big big companies in this country that's a billion pound company and he was we were having the same conversation about just trying to remember amongst all of this ambition that the like the actual most important question is like Are you happy?
[621] Yeah.
[622] And that's one that I've definitely lost sight of for many, many years of my life in the pursuit of building more and more and more.
[623] And then eventually loneliness or some other kind of consequence will show up and remind me that I've misprioritized.
[624] But it's a great subject now, isn't it?
[625] And I think people come out with a pandemic and they think there is, you know, we want our lives to be slightly more balanced.
[626] And I think, I think, you know, that wasn't the case.
[627] five years ago or 15 years ago or when you started your business it was it was you know it was that mission and I think balance is good well thank you Nick thank you so much for your time the generosity with your time and thank you for creating a business that I love and that I'm probably at every week at current rate and thank you for being a member yeah yeah and you know I think most most of our team as well I bought memberships for them as well and you've created a business which brings a lot of people joy.
[628] But the thing that I actually love the most about your business, which is, I think, is a bit of a dying human Maslovia need is community.
[629] And everything, whether it's the industry I worked in social media or whether it's other things or even remote working now seems to be taking community away from us, which seems to be so integral to being a human.
[630] And so how and the brand is bringing that back.
[631] And I think that's why I would personally bet on that, because I think regardless of how the world change and technology and all of that, we're still going to always love and have a desire for community.
[632] Yeah, I agree.
[633] I agree.
[634] The human connection and people getting together and laughter and ideas and not doing it digitally, doing it in a physical space is great to see.
[635] Thank you.