If You Want To Be Wealthy, Do What Wealthy People Do!

[0] Ramsey Solutions.

[1] It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[2] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

[3] Number one, best -selling author, George Camel, is my co -host today.

[4] His book is Breaking Free from Broke.

[5] He's a Ramsey personality, and we're going to be answering your questions about your life and your money.

[6] Open phones at AAA 825 -2 -2 -25.

[7] Letitia starts this hour in Charlotte, North Carolina.

[8] Hi, Latitia, how are you?

[9] Hi, Dave, hi, George.

[10] I'm great.

[11] How are you?

[12] Better than we deserve.

[13] What's up?

[14] All right.

[15] Well, I'm in an interesting situation that I kind of feel.

[16] I already know the answer to, but hearing it from you guys definitely will make it make more sense.

[17] So I filmed you about six months ago and did your entire Total Money Makeover book and started immediately implementing the baby stabs.

[18] Paid off about $10 ,000 in consumer debt over the course of credit cards and a car loan.

[19] Good for you.

[20] And what is, thank you.

[21] And what is remaining now are my student loans.

[22] And I got my bachelor's as well as my master's.

[23] and it amounted to about $160 ,000.

[24] What's your master's in?

[25] I got my MBA.

[26] Good.

[27] So what do you make?

[28] Yes.

[29] So I make about 120.

[30] That's good news.

[31] Yes.

[32] So big shovel, but big debt simultaneously.

[33] And I did what everybody did sort of pre -COVID, like right before it hit, and God offered the opportunity for them to consult.

[34] And my mom said, that makes perfect sense because over the course of, you know, seven years between my undergrad and my graduate degree, it was like 14 different loans between subsidized and unsubsidized.

[35] So right now, they are consolidated down into two.

[36] So I've got 51 ,000 of subsidized and 110 of unsubsidized.

[37] And you're single?

[38] Now I'm married.

[39] You're married.

[40] What's your husband make?

[41] Like, $75 .80.

[42] Oh, so you have a $200 ,000 household income?

[43] Yes.

[44] What other debts do you all have?

[45] Like, he's got a car for his son, and I am about two months away from paying off my daughters.

[46] So we've got, you know, 20 and.

[47] 17 -year -old kids.

[48] So those will both be paid off here this summer.

[49] So then the only thing...

[50] Okay, so if you make $200 ,000 a year and you have $160 ,000 a problem and you paid $80 ,000 on it, have you have household living on $120 not counting taxes and you'd be debt -free in two years, right?

[51] The number sounds great when you save them.

[52] Yeah.

[53] Well, I mean, you make $200.

[54] I've got you living on $120 minus taxes.

[55] And that's less than you've been living on ever in recent memory.

[56] So, you know, I'm pretty much boiling your lifestyle down to nothing.

[57] What's your question, Letitia?

[58] Well, so we are currently renting, and I obviously, like, the goal is to buy our first home.

[59] And we're a little bit older, so I'm 42 and my husband's 45.

[60] So it would be like a first -time home buying situation.

[61] And what we currently pay in our lease, I feel like we could do in a mortgage and actually, you know, own the home instead of just renting.

[62] But I know, like just from listening to the show, the idea of taking out a $200 ,000 mortgage on top of $160 ,000 in the student loan debt.

[63] It doesn't make much sense, but I worried about trying to prolong getting a house if I fully, fully waited until the student loans were paid off.

[64] If you're going to take 20 years to pay them off, that might be a discussion, but you should pay them off in two years.

[65] Two years.

[66] And then the emergency fund and then the down payment.

[67] And so we're saying this is going to delay it, but you weren't ready to buy a house today anyways.

[68] You guys don't have any money.

[69] Do you have any money in savings?

[70] Yes.

[71] How much?

[72] So I've got about 10 ,000.

[73] Okay.

[74] Have you guys combined bank accounts?

[75] No. How long have you been married?

[76] Two years.

[77] Okay.

[78] His kid's car, your kid's car, there's still separate discussions.

[79] You're still living two separate lives.

[80] So we're going to always recommend, because the data shows us, this is data -driven, that couples that combine their money and work together towards a goal have a huge increase in probability of actually hitting that goal, that goal being getting a house, building wealth, having a real solid nest egg, all of those things, trying to do it as two separate individuals acting as roommates, it very seldom occurs statistically.

[81] That's a data thing.

[82] So we're going to have you guys combine that.

[83] And so we have two kids with cars.

[84] We've got to clean up.

[85] and then we have my student loan debt that we need to clean up so we can buy a house and that's what we would do so george's got a he's got his nose to the ground he's figuring out what's really going on over there i'm scruff mcgruff over here yeah oh my god just want to throw back to that dave this is like there's an 80s throwback there an 80s reference not as young as you thought i'm telling you're getting older every day but the uh yeah that um that's what we would do.

[86] And I'm going to tell you to really lean in, and both of you, the faster you get this cleaned up, the faster you're on your way to not only homeownership, but wealth building in general.

[87] And so I'm going to absolutely go crazy for two years and have this done in two years.

[88] Because 120 minus taxes, stop your 401k temporarily during that time.

[89] Don't do anything.

[90] $1 ,000 is baby step one.

[91] Everything else goes towards this.

[92] We're going to attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, and the two of you working together.

[93] Right now, you've been kind of working this, and he's been standing over on the side watching you do it.

[94] So we're changing the whole discussion, not just simply answering the one question.

[95] And as you guys budget $200 ,000 of income, it changes the numbers.

[96] It changes how much margin you have to throw at this debt.

[97] And I think largely it's felt like a solo journey trying to tackle this debt, making $120.

[98] And that's not a fun way to go.

[99] And so marriage, it's we.

[100] You've got to change the pronouns here and start looking at this thing as a singular goal we're attacking together.

[101] Yeah, Jade says have a vocab rehab.

[102] Oh, I like that.

[103] That's pretty good.

[104] She's much cooler than you and me. Yeah, I got to work on my rhymes.

[105] I'm not there yet.

[106] We've got to hang around with Jade.

[107] I'm mentioning Scruff McGruff.

[108] Jade's out here with vocab rehab.

[109] Yeah, well, that's my point exactly, right there.

[110] Well, back to the data, Dave.

[111] Back to the data.

[112] It's true.

[113] Couples build well faster when they combine their life.

[114] Their goals, their vision, their bank accounts, their budget, it's just a better way to live.

[115] Yeah, but I saw on TikTok that women ought to protect themselves.

[116] Oh, my goodness.

[117] See, there's several problems with that statement.

[118] Number one, you were on TikTok.

[119] That is right there.

[120] That defines a whole lot of, that tells us a whole lot about you right then.

[121] This is the Ramsey show.

[122] I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[123] Yeah.

[124] And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible.

[125] People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance.

[126] When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week?

[127] Yeah.

[128] In the middle of all that grief.

[129] Like it's just, it is.

[130] It's terrible.

[131] So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

[132] Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

[133] And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

[134] It doesn't cost much.

[135] You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

[136] You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say, I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

[137] The cost of stinking pizza.

[138] To get a free quote, call 800 -356 -4282.

[139] That's 800 -356 -4282, or go to zander .com.

[140] George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co -host.

[141] Open phones at AAA 8255 -2 -2 -25.

[142] Elizabeth is in Charleston, South Carolina.

[143] Hi, Elizabeth.

[144] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[145] Hi, how are you today, Dave?

[146] Better than I deserve.

[147] What's up?

[148] Okay, well, I worked very, very hard to get where I'm at.

[149] I met my husband in my early 20s, and I had about 20 -store credit cards and 6K in debt, and she helped me get out of that.

[150] We worked super hard, saved every dime.

[151] didn't go on vacations for decades, put a lot of money towards the mortgages.

[152] Now we live in a great area, our dream house, great location, but I literally have no idea how much money we have and we're still not going on vacation or living life.

[153] And I'm just a smart person that's doing really dumb decisions by not finding this information out and every time I ask it's not going anywhere and it's not that I don't trust him because he's very very good with money it's just I think we're going overboard and what we're doing and I don't know how to kind of get out of this merry -go -round of just my head stuck in the sand why is it that he won't share with his wife the money that you have I just never in the beginning because I was the one in debt coming into the marriage how long have you been been married?

[154] 20 years.

[155] I've been married 43.

[156] If the stuff I did stupid in the first seven years of marriage was still counted against me, I probably wouldn't be alive.

[157] I know, I know.

[158] So, you know, what you did 20 years ago doesn't count.

[159] Why is it that 20 years into your marriage, you don't know what's going on with the money?

[160] Why does he not think you're worthy of that?

[161] Probably because I haven't pushed it.

[162] You know, every time I push it, he just doesn't want to get.

[163] into it and I just kind of back off and then I don't fight it and to the point where I have to know this stuff if something happened to him I would have to know how to pay the mortgage okay so how can we help you how do I get out of this I don't know if it's a mindset I'm stuck in or if it's just I'm scared I just kind of want to get out of this behold of just not knowing Well, I guess, I mean, I don't want to be a smart aleck or anything, but the way you get out of the hole of not knowing is you start knowing, which means bozo's going to have to open up his mouth and tell you what the flip's going on, and you're going to have to demand it as a part of him continuing to live.

[164] Okay.

[165] Yeah.

[166] Hey, dude, I'm going to duct tape you to the bed and beat you with a baseball bat.

[167] You're going to tell me what the flip's going on here, okay?

[168] I'm kidding.

[169] Don't do that.

[170] But, I mean, you really are, you sound sweet, you sound so apologetic like you've done something wrong for asking about your life.

[171] And you don't owe anybody an apology for that.

[172] You don't need to be a jerk about it, but you do need to lean in hard enough that he decides he's going to share with you and say, listen, I am terrified because I do not know what's going on.

[173] It's not okay that I don't know what's going on.

[174] And starting right now, I'm going to know what's going on or we're going to have other problems in this house.

[175] Okay.

[176] Can you find that much roar in your voice?

[177] Yes.

[178] It's just, I can't live.

[179] It's like a five -year -old that throws a fit.

[180] You know, he goes into that mode.

[181] Yeah, you sound like someone who's been, who's the subject of domestic abuse, the way you're verbalizing.

[182] Like, it's all your fault that he's misbehaving.

[183] I think it's the way I grew up with money.

[184] I'm the youngest of five kids, and there's a huge age difference between me and my siblings.

[185] Yeah, how old were you?

[186] I am 47.

[187] It's time to grow up then.

[188] Yeah.

[189] Oh, give a crap what you happened when you were a kid.

[190] As of right now, you're like a 47 -year -old grown woman.

[191] And he needs to grow up too.

[192] And, yeah, walk in there and say, Bubba, this ain't going this way anymore.

[193] We're not doing this.

[194] Not happening.

[195] You've told us that you trust him, but the truth is I don't think he trusts you.

[196] If he's not willing to share any of this and be transparent with you, there's a bigger problem on his side.

[197] Yeah, and he enjoys no one questioning his decisions.

[198] Is he controlling in other areas, too?

[199] just like stupid stuff like restaurants we go to we don't like the same food so I don't like that stupid eating is something we do a lot of three times a day if you're normal yeah so I don't I think you don't get a vote in this marriage in every other area and that's not okay yeah well I mean I live where I always dreamed of and you know there's a difference between having a vote and being a kept woman yeah I don't You're kind of tired of being a kept woman is why you call.

[200] Well, I wish I was a kept woman.

[201] I'd make my own money and, you know, contribute to the household.

[202] So, I mean, it'd be nice if...

[203] You're kind of missing the point, darling.

[204] I know.

[205] Okay.

[206] So are you going to, are you going to sit down with him and deal with your marriage issue or not?

[207] Yes.

[208] Okay.

[209] Good.

[210] I'm proud of you.

[211] And if he absolutely refuses to share with you what's going on in the finances, when you point blank, demand that as a equal share in this marriage, marriage, then you guys need to go see a marriage counseling, to which Bozo is not going to go, and you get to go by yourself and learn how to speak Bozo.

[212] And that's what the marriage counselor will do.

[213] They teach you how to speak that.

[214] I know that.

[215] That's a fun way to put it.

[216] Well, I mean, they teach you how to come back and do the confrontation and give you, you know, because basically what we're talking about here is a boundaries violation.

[217] And the first thing that happens when someone violates your boundaries, whoever we are, our friend, Dr. Henry Cloud, of course, wrote the consummate book on that boundaries.

[218] But you feel like you did something wrong.

[219] You feel crazy.

[220] But you're now called gaslighting.

[221] That's the new term for this.

[222] When they make you feel like the crazy one and you're the problem.

[223] Yeah.

[224] And that's typically when the boundaries are being violated, that's what's going on.

[225] And it's an abuse mechanism.

[226] And it's a manipulation.

[227] And so, you know, I feel like I did something wrong.

[228] But then what happens is when you get in the presence of a coach or counselor or you call us, you know, we're going to come alongside you and go, by the way, you're not crazy.

[229] So as a matter of fact, what they're doing is crazy.

[230] So you need to step back up on that boundary again, and this time you need to stand on it and not get pushed off of it with gaslighting, manipulation, whatever it is, right?

[231] And so, but this open, guys, this is coming up more and more and more.

[232] And Rachel and Dr. John Deloney are doing the money and marriage event in the fall, and they're going, they're both have gone down a rabbit hole on this research that's out there right now.

[233] There's fresh research in, but it's an old subject.

[234] I saw the similar research 30 years ago, but we used to call it the marriage advantage because the statistics were that a single man did not prosper financially in his career, in his health, his health that wasn't as good, as a married man. And the idea being that relationships are good for you, good relationships, not toxic ones.

[235] And the idea being that when you have something to work for, for your family, you're serving someone, it changes your demeanor, it changes your character, you lean in, you, you prosper for good reason.

[236] Because, you know, when you got kids and dogs and stuff, you know, bills to pay, all of a sudden it's different.

[237] Give you some purpose.

[238] Yeah.

[239] And so there was a, there was what we used to call the marriage advantage.

[240] Well, now we're seeing it, and they're calling it all kinds of different things, but we're seeing the exact same data is still there.

[241] We found it again when we did all the millionaire research with all.

[242] the millionaires.

[243] We found that the couple that is married and has a healthy marriage relationship, meaning that they both are speaking into the decisions, they're both speaking into the future dreams, they're both speaking into the sacrifices and prices that have to be paid to get to those dreams, they're speaking into major purchases, they're speaking into major giving decisions, and the ones that do that together, who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies.

[244] The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain huh gentlemen you want no lack of gain virtuous wife listen to her now wives larry burkett used to remind us that that does not give you permission to become the holy spirit that's his job so virtuous wife understands that and so it's you know thoughtful wise input in delight You live longer, better, and you prosper more.

[245] It's a pretty dumb formula, but it's kind of obvious.

[246] This is the Ramsey Show.

[247] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[248] Hey good folks, the back -to -school madness is upon us.

[249] It's hitting us right now.

[250] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[251] My family's schedule is so packed, and we haven't even begun talking about.

[252] things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[253] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[254] Here's what I've learned.

[255] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[256] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[257] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[258] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

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[268] You want to break free from broke?

[269] Well, you would get the book Breaking Free from Broke then by my co -host today.

[270] George Camel Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author.

[271] Very cool.

[272] And Ken Coleman has been helping people do better at their work.

[273] and do work in different places so they make more money and have a better quality life.

[274] He's been doing that for quite a while.

[275] He's one of our Ramsey personalities.

[276] He's had a couple number one bestsellers.

[277] And he developed a couple of years back an assessment called the Get Clear Career Assessment, the Get Clear Career Assessment.

[278] Now, what it does is it helps you figure out what you're good at, what you love doing, and then it starts molding that into a process and starts pointing you in some possible way.

[279] You have never taken an assessment like this.

[280] It is powerful.

[281] I took it and I'm obviously settled in my career and I was very interesting how it just completely, we did such a good job with the assessment.

[282] It reads your mail.

[283] It read my mail.

[284] That's exactly what it is.

[285] It's pretty wild.

[286] Dave, you should be like in talk radio.

[287] I mean, it was like crazy.

[288] So the get clear assessment has had about almost 100 ,000 people take it now.

[289] It's on our website at ramsysolutions .com.

[290] We are launching a new book with Ken called Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

[291] Now, it will have as a part of the book, the Get Clear Assessment.

[292] As a matter of fact, the book is a quick little read to help you understand and implement the Get Clear assessment.

[293] So you get the assessment with the book, and it shows you exactly how to do everything.

[294] The book actually comes out in May. It's on pre -sale right now.

[295] And, again, you'll get the audiobook and the e -book with it, which means you're going to end up with three.

[296] three codes to do three different assessments so you can give it to friends and family that'll be pretty cool and um and it's a great bargain when you do all that together you can pick this up anywhere books are sold but you can certainly get it at ramesysolutions dot com april the 16th the day after dreaded tax day rachel cruz is coming out with her second children's book her first one was i'm glad for what i have about contentment this one is i'm glad for where i am great bedtime stories and this is about gratitude because we have found that as you teach children gratitude and contentment those are the antidotes to entitlement go figure um humility's coming next get ready but yeah the i don't know if it is or not but probably and so kind of all falls in the same bucket right children that know how to say please and thank you and don't think that they are the center of the universe.

[297] They don't think the axis of the world runs through the top of their sweet little heads.

[298] These are children that become prosperous adults.

[299] And because everybody wants to be around them as opposed to the guy or gal who at a party is a taker rather than a giver.

[300] And so I'm glad for where I am.

[301] The latest in the series by Rachel Cruz comes out.

[302] Both of these are in pre -sale right now.

[303] Yeah, you need to steal that for your baby.

[304] I do.

[305] I got a seven -month -old little girl.

[306] And these are the problems I'm having, Dave.

[307] How do I not destroy this kid, how do I not raise an entitled brat in this wild digital age?

[308] And so I'm excited to read this to her every now and then, just to remind her what Aunt Rachel said.

[309] I got it out.

[310] Daniel's little boys for I got it out.

[311] Papa Dave Reed, Papa Dave Reed, Papa Dave Reed.

[312] Oh, that's fun.

[313] Don't get me started.

[314] I'll definitely read to you because we know that children that are read to, their intelligence level goes way up.

[315] So always be reading to your kids.

[316] Especially if it's a good kid's book like this.

[317] There you go.

[318] Check out all those books.

[319] It's exciting times around here.

[320] The junior books have been selling very well for decades.

[321] But these books are Rachel, or just their, the world -class illustrations as well.

[322] Laura just did an incredible, Lauren did an incredible job with that.

[323] So, so George, changing gears from a sweet little kids book that you can get pre -sail at Ramsey Solutions .com to a not -so sweet story.

[324] Something a little more sinister, if you will.

[325] Sinister.

[326] That was good.

[327] It's pretty good.

[328] All right.

[329] You've got that villain thing down, Dave.

[330] A little scary, how good that was.

[331] FTX co -founder, Sam Brinkman Fried, and so.

[332] many ways.

[333] Sentenced two.

[334] It's freed probably, but I love fraud.

[335] Fraud is, yeah.

[336] Sentenced 25 years in prison for his misbehavior with the old Bitcoin.

[337] So this was the former cryptocurrency billionaire co -founded and led as CEO FTX, which famously collapsed back in 2022, 25 years behind bars for his role in perpetrating one of the largest financial crimes in U .S. history.

[338] He was convicted of seven counts of fraud, conspiracy, and money laundering, along with other charges of conspiracy to commit commodities and securities fraud at the right age of 32.

[339] If you laundering, if you laundering, does it rust?

[340] Is this like if a tree falls in the forest riddles?

[341] This is a thought, yeah.

[342] I mean, when I put other coins in the laundry, they rust, you know.

[343] It was never really money.

[344] It was never really there.

[345] Oh, that's right.

[346] It was just air.

[347] Who knew?

[348] Nothing happened.

[349] This is wild.

[350] His conviction last fall followed the startling 2020 collapse of FTX.

[351] Why was it startling?

[352] We predicted it.

[353] The cryptocurrency trading platform he had co -founded and led a CEO amid an $8 billion shortfall in funds.

[354] Oops.

[355] Eight billion.

[356] Oops.

[357] Just, oh, it's a shortfall.

[358] Is that what we call it?

[359] Oh, yeah.

[360] It's called 23 years in jail.

[361] At trial, he was accused of using depositor money to prop up his struggling hedge fund.

[362] No kidding.

[363] As well as using the funds to buy luxury properties in the Caribbean and make donations to a range of causes.

[364] which was mainly the Democratic Party.

[365] The FTCS was one of the second largest crypto exchange in the world, allowing users to buy and sell, dozens of virtual currencies.

[366] His wealth was estimated at more than $30 billion, the collapse of cryptocurrency prices, crippled FTCS and exposed the shortfall of $8 billion.

[367] So when the tide goes out, you can tell who is skinny -dipping.

[368] Love that.

[369] That's what happened, right?

[370] So he took people's money to invest, claiming it was still there, but instead he was funneling it into crypto and keeping a little bit on hand in case people wanted to withdraw.

[371] That when crypto bit the dust, everyone frantically tried to withdraw, the money's not there.

[372] And it all collapsed on itself.

[373] George, the advantage of crypto is it's not regulated by the government.

[374] It's not the government, man. It's like it's off the grid, man. There's no regulation on it, man. It's the advantage.

[375] Dave, you would like crypto because it's like you don't like the government man and right man isn't that how it works man well guess what dumb but when you have zero regulations and a guy's supposed to be treating something like a bank and instead he goes and buys his own stuff with your money there's no regulations on it there's no guidelines there's no oversight I listen I don't want the government doing checkups on my body parts either but I'll just tell you I This is, this is, you know, it's the exact thing that makes crypto as a stupid idea easy to outline here because it didn't have any government oversight, man. It's like, cool, dude.

[376] It's like you're sticking it to the man. And, yeah, well, this is what you get.

[377] You go to real prison.

[378] You don't go to prison in the Metaverse here, Dave.

[379] You actually go to real prison.

[380] It's not an MTF prison cell.

[381] I wonder if he can sell NTFs of his prison cell.

[382] That would be something else.

[383] That might be his way out.

[384] It's not a way out, but it's a way to make somebody money while he's in there.

[385] Oh, my gosh.

[386] Yeah, I guess, you know, you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

[387] That's the motto here today.

[388] Oh, my gosh.

[389] Sam was not a ruthless financial serial killer who set out every morning to hurt people.

[390] That's his defense lawyer.

[391] Yeah.

[392] O 'clocky described his client as an awkward math nerd.

[393] You're just a sweet kid, Dave.

[394] He's just a sweet kid.

[395] He just stole $8 billion.

[396] He tried to return the money.

[397] He used $8 billion of other people's money to buy him stuff.

[398] And Sweet Kid didn't know that it wasn't his money.

[399] He didn't know that he, you know, he just used $8 billion of other people's money to buy him some stuff.

[400] Yeah, that's offensive to awkward math nerds.

[401] That's just a sweet math nerd.

[402] I mean, all the awkward math nerds in America and around the world ought to rise up and not be put in this category.

[403] Because, you know, he, you know, it's amazing how he's actually devoid of, ethics is where it amounts to he's actually has he's like a psychopath i mean he probably is a sweet kid i mean in all honesty i have no idea i've never met the guy but i i you know i wouldn't doubt it that he's a sweet kid but he's just completely on a psychopathic on a psychopath level devoid of ethics led to gristing it probably he's so far astray from normal human function that he probably didn't occur to him he was stealing people's money.

[404] That's how stupid and sad this is.

[405] And here's what's really stupid and sad.

[406] Some of you thought it was awesome to put money in there.

[407] You remember Matt Damon?

[408] Fortune favors the bold.

[409] Don't you remember the commercial for F for, for, for, it was a crypto .com for that one?

[410] Crypto, yeah.

[411] Oh my gosh.

[412] Fortune favors the bold.

[413] Well, sometimes boldness gets you in prison for 25 years.

[414] Sorry.

[415] There it is.

[416] Ding, ding.

[417] This is the Ramsey show.

[418] So here's a quick math refresher.

[419] There are only 24 hours in a day, so your business needs to streamline tasks that are time suckers and focus on activities that make money.

[420] So to reduce headaches as they scale, smart businesses use NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud financial system.

[421] NetSuite helps you improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform.

[422] So join the more than 37 ,000 smart businesses, like Ramsey solutions that have done the math and graduated to NetSuite.

[423] And right now you can download NetSuite's KPI checklist absolutely free at NetSuite .com slash Ramsey.

[424] That's netsuite .com slash Ramsey.

[425] George Camel, Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[426] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

[427] Thanks for joining us.

[428] James is with us in Chicago.

[429] Hi, James.

[430] Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[431] Hi, how's it doing?

[432] Better than I deserve.

[433] So I recently discovered a gadget show last week, so I've been to watch probably 80 of your episodes on podcast.

[434] Wow.

[435] I whatever my, yeah, whatever my debt, and I'm like probably $80 ,000 in debt, and I don't know one where to start because it's just so overwhelming to just like pick one and go with it.

[436] And then my second question is I'm up for a new job that will triple the income that I make now.

[437] Now, but I'm scared to take it because I don't want to make poor financial decisions to end me up until where I am now.

[438] Money was never really talked about growing up.

[439] So all this is like all the $80 ,000 is like figuring out on my own type thing if that makes sense.

[440] Wow.

[441] So how much do you make now and what will you make if you take this job?

[442] So currently right now between I have a full -time job that I make.

[443] It's I think like 35 ,000 and then I have a PRN like part -time job that I do, like, on the weekends, I've just finished training for that I'll bring in an additional $30 ,000.

[444] So I bring in roughly about $60 ,000 a year.

[445] If I take the new job, it'll increase my income to about between $130 and $150 a year, and then I can just go down to one job and I don't have to have two jobs because my one job, the new job we're going to, I'll be traveling all the time.

[446] Yeah, what do you do?

[447] So I currently now I work in investments at State Farm, and I'm a, um, a patient care tech and a hospital that I took a travel job for.

[448] And then the new job will work in a catastrophe department at a state farm.

[449] Oh, the catastrophe department.

[450] So you'll be traveling for State Farm going to the disaster areas and helping the folks there and issuing checks and so forth, right?

[451] Correct.

[452] Okay.

[453] And you're how old?

[454] 33.

[455] Okay.

[456] And what's your degree in?

[457] I don't have one.

[458] Are you single?

[459] Are you single?

[460] I have a kid, though.

[461] okay all right are you uh is the child traveling with you or you know you're 13 i just had visitation i see i see okay all right so let's um reframe this if i were in your shoes is what i would want to do um hmm uh let i'm gonna i'm gonna just make up something bizarre which is not happening okay but i'm gonna pretend i was trying to to, I was offered the opportunity to buy a company that was an engineering firm.

[462] And I could buy it for one -third of what it's worth.

[463] Now, I have zero engineering knowledge.

[464] I've never run a zero engineering firm.

[465] I don't know squat about that.

[466] I could make a real mess with that.

[467] Do you believe me?

[468] Mm -hmm.

[469] Yeah.

[470] But if I could buy it for one -third, then my new job.

[471] would be to figure out enough about engineering to run the firm and enough about engineers and processes for running an engineer firm to I would have to go to school so to speak not real school but I mean I'd have to I'd have to learn all I could learn about engineering if I wanted to engage in this bargain that I got in front of me does that make you see what I'm doing so you've got a bargain that's in front of you but in order for that to be a blessing like buying an engineering firm for one -third of what it's worth.

[472] And again, it's just a stupid bad metaphor.

[473] But it's a bargain, but it's not a bargain if I go screw it up and bankrupt the thing, because I don't know what I'm doing.

[474] And that's kind of your question.

[475] I don't know if it's a bargain for me to get a bunch of money since I'm not good at it.

[476] So that means your job is not to not take the money.

[477] Your job is to go learn how to handle money.

[478] And you've been binge watching Ramsey which is a good start so you have a you know you you're getting ready to come into some money it made you nervous because it made you realize you don't know what you're doing so let's let's get you on a path to knowing what you're doing let's make you competent in this area so that this blessing is a blessing and not a curse which is your fear right I don't think you're going to destroy your life over this and here's why I know you have the wisdom and self -awareness to call us going I might destroy my life over this please help me not destroy my life.

[479] So part of it is pre -deciding, you're going to do wise things with this money that you are going to be managing.

[480] I don't know, and the lack of knowledge scares me. That's a better statement than, I'm a bad person.

[481] I'm going to screw this up.

[482] Because that reflects your character.

[483] And I don't think you're that guy.

[484] You may have made mistakes in the past.

[485] You know, if I was going to give you a nice car and you didn't know how to drive, it would be your job to learn how to drive.

[486] Right.

[487] But I hadn't got anything to do with, I wrecked my dad's car when I was 13.

[488] Well, so what?

[489] You still can learn how to drive.

[490] Right.

[491] And that's what this is.

[492] So you're getting a vehicle, you know, money that can take you some places that you couldn't go otherwise.

[493] And so you need to learn how to drive.

[494] And we'll help you with that.

[495] That's what we do every day.

[496] And, you know, that's the reason you've been watched.

[497] That's why you got really interested is I don't want to screw this up.

[498] I want to get better at it.

[499] I need to put some tools in my belt that aren't in there now for life.

[500] I think you, I'm with George, I don't think you're going to mess it up because you're asking the question.

[501] If you were arrogant and didn't know what you were doing, then that's a dangerous combination.

[502] But you're humble and don't know what you're doing.

[503] And that's a fabulous combination.

[504] That's an opportunity for growth.

[505] Right.

[506] And what I love about the baby steps in budgeting is it forces you to make a goal for your money, because otherwise it disappears into stupid decisions like you're talking about.

[507] So the wonderful thing is this new.

[508] income has a very specific goal.

[509] It's going to pay off $80 ,000 in debt.

[510] And so you're going to set an aggressive goal and say, all right, I'm going to make $130 after taxes.

[511] Let's call that $90.

[512] That's $7 ,500 a month.

[513] I want to pay this off in 18 months.

[514] Do they pay your travel and housing when you're on the road?

[515] So they cover, you get a company vehicle.

[516] They pay, they give you the stipend.

[517] I think it's what it's called when they pay for all your food.

[518] Is that an addition to the 90?

[519] Or in addition to the 130, I'm sorry?

[520] yeah okay sure most of it's made up basically you can almost live free as a single guy and almost put all your income on this debt yeah correct it's amazing so what if you could put six grand out of the seven towards this debt every month I don't have I I can do that when I if I get accepted for it I'm just previously I've had been poor with money and I when I'm during COVID I made like 150 grand during COVID, and I just, but I was, but I was off in a relationship.

[521] Where did you spend it?

[522] And I don't want to go.

[523] Bad relationship.

[524] Where did I?

[525] Was it on the relationship?

[526] Traveling.

[527] Relationship, traveling.

[528] I ended up buying a new car that ended up being like a horrible deal that I thought I paid, paid it off.

[529] So James, a hundred percent of the people listening to you right now, including George and I, have done stupid stuff with money.

[530] My only goal is to not do the same stupid thing twice.

[531] Exactly.

[532] Exactly.

[533] And so you've got some stupid stuff already under your belt.

[534] You know what it looks like, new car, traveling, trying to walk around be something you're not in a relationship and using money to do that.

[535] You got those stupid things in your belt.

[536] You know what they look like?

[537] You won't do them again, hopefully.

[538] If you do them again, there's no hope for you.

[539] I mean, you've got to stop doing stupid stuff.

[540] But you're going to do new stupid stuff probably.

[541] I have done new stupid stuff over the years.

[542] So my stack of stupid stuff that's in my rearview mirror is just taller than yours.

[543] Dave's innovative like that.

[544] He always finds new ways.

[545] He's a genius.

[546] So we're going to put you through Financial Peace University and teach you how to handle money.

[547] And that includes putting you in the world's best budgeting app, the premium version of every dollar, which hooks to your bank and how it allows you to track every year, every one of your expenses.

[548] And I want you to treat the next year and a half to two years like a game that if you're 100 % debt free and have 50 ,000, thousand dollars in the bank at the end of the game you win and so you gameify this and you just watch every penny in this budgeting app and every penny goes towards your game goal and the game is the game of life and it's not the one with a little spinny wheel and the little get married and have little babies in your car thing the game of remember that yeah oh yeah i love that game and one your original show was called the money game that's true that's true any correlation with a game of life.

[549] No, it didn't.

[550] It just was catchy.

[551] But, you know, that's, so James, you're going to be fine.

[552] And hey, as you're going along, if you need some help more than that, if you got another question, you call.

[553] We'll help you.

[554] It's what we do, man. And, uh, FPU will be that game changer for knowledge, though.

[555] Yeah, I think, I think you, if you'll just do what we teach you do in there, it'll work, man. It's work for 10 million people.

[556] This is the Ramsey Show.

[557] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions.

[558] It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people.

[559] Build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[560] The phone number is 3 ,8 -825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[561] George Camel, number one best -selling author of the book, Breaking Free from Broke, is my co -host today, Ramsey Personality Extraordinaire.

[562] Again, the phone number 3888 -2 -5 -2 -25.

[563] Eric is in Chicago.

[564] Hi, Eric.

[565] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[566] Hello, Dave, hello, George.

[567] How are you?

[568] Better than we deserve.

[569] What's up?

[570] So I had recently got married about a month ago.

[571] Congrats.

[572] Appreciate it.

[573] So we have been pretty much on the same page financially.

[574] We want to combine everything together, and I just want to make sure that I'm following the right steps when doing that.

[575] Obviously, this is not something I've done before, and so, yeah.

[576] Okay, cool.

[577] So what are you combining exactly?

[578] Does she have a checking account?

[579] You have a checking account?

[580] How simple is this?

[581] So we, yes, we both have checking accounts.

[582] She has considerable more investments than I do.

[583] She's been very good with her money.

[584] And then we both have houses currently as well that we bought separately when we were single.

[585] And then we're essentially right now thinking about renting, one of them while we're living in the other, but we do still have mortgages on both of those houses.

[586] You guys have any debt?

[587] They currently have no debts.

[588] Okay.

[589] No, only the two mortgages are only debt, which is good great.

[590] So when you're talking about combining finances, it's also how do we combine this real estate situation?

[591] We have her names on one mortgage indeed, your name's on the other mortgage indeed?

[592] That's correct.

[593] Okay.

[594] Well, I don't know Illinois law, but in most states, when you get married, your primary residence is automatically shared whether you change the name on the deed or not.

[595] Okay?

[596] Okay.

[597] And the actual, the other residence doesn't matter.

[598] I'm more concerned than the names on the accounts.

[599] Number one, I would combine the operations of the household into one checking account.

[600] That's what you and Whitney did.

[601] you got married.

[602] Yeah, and you actually don't need to shut down your account.

[603] You can turn your checking account into a joint checking account, and then she can close hers out and move the money.

[604] Or vice versa.

[605] Exactly.

[606] And even the name on the investments, I don't worry about the names on the titles of these things.

[607] I'm more worry about the way we start using our pronouns and that we are considering our rental house, our primary residence, instead of like, well, I can't talk about that house over there.

[608] That was his house before we got married.

[609] No, you get to talk about.

[610] about it, you're now married.

[611] And, you know, I can't talk about her investment.

[612] She was doing good with investments before we got married.

[613] No, it's now our investments.

[614] The preacher said, and now you are one.

[615] And the old, uh, the old wedding vows said, unto thee all my worldly goods, I pledge.

[616] I mean, nobody says that stuff anymore, but that's, but that's what you should be doing.

[617] And so I don't care if you go change the names on the deeds.

[618] That's irrelevant to me, unless it just makes somebody feel better.

[619] The only thing I do care about changing the name on is the checking account, shut down one, dump everything and the other one.

[620] But, you know, we have one mutual fund that is in Sharon's name only because it's some money that was given to her when a family member passed away.

[621] And she said, I want to put that in a mutual fund.

[622] So I just put it in a mutual fund in her name.

[623] I didn't think anything about it.

[624] But there's no question in the Ramsey household that everything that we have is ours in spirit and um and so that's the that's the main way i want you guys to start looking at it instead of like you know i feel guilty for the debt i brought in uh i feel guilty that she brought in more in investments than i did uh so i don't feel like i have the right to speak up into that oh yeah you're married yeah we're definitely combining our decision making so you see what i'm saying it's more the spirit and the decision making flow and the way we discuss it and the way we feel about it, than the actual names on the deeds that propel people forward.

[625] You follow me?

[626] Yeah, absolutely.

[627] And I think that we both are on board and we want to get to that point, but, you know, you definitely tell when we speak around it, we still say your house or my house and kind of getting out of that mentality, you know, it takes a little bit of time maybe.

[628] Well, I mean, we still say whose car we take into church, your car, or you taking your truck to church, you know, And so, but we both understand we both own it.

[629] And so, you know, I would never buy a car without my wife present.

[630] I would never buy her a car for sure without her present and so on.

[631] You see what I'm saying?

[632] So it's the function more than it is the label and the spirit behind the function that I'm looking for.

[633] That's what causes people to prosper.

[634] it's not the technical retitling but I think it'll take some time for you to say to start saying ours and we instead of yours and mine now if the dog goes you know goes poop in the floor it's definitely your dog that's the key it's not our dog I was told that this morning so I'm just telling you that's your dog your dog tore that up your dog just tore that up and I went My dog.

[635] Why is it my dog?

[636] I want to tear something up.

[637] It's your job to clean it up?

[638] That's it.

[639] But I mean, so my point is it never quite goes away.

[640] But, you know, if you work at it and you say our goal is to be a functioning unit, a great partnership, not one domineering or one shamed or one whatever, toxic version.

[641] See, that's relational stuff as well as financial stuff.

[642] Is that making sense?

[643] yeah absolutely absolutely um and i i think kind of a follow -up question too is that since we both still have our mortgages on our houses um you know selling one uh and pulling the equity and putting in the other we'd get us closer to not having a mortgage um obviously it's not something that we need to pay down uh like consumer debt or anything um i like it is that that would that be something that It will probably the best idea of that.

[644] It will propel you forward in your wealth building more than keeping it.

[645] Okay.

[646] And everybody thinks owning real estate, they answer to everything.

[647] And I'm a huge advocate of real estate, but we know from the data that we've collected on millionaires that getting their personal residence paid for becoming 100 % dead free was one of the huge arcs in the story that caused them to become a millionaire mathematically.

[648] And we know that.

[649] And so, you know, but you've just been married 20 minutes.

[650] So, you know, if you guys want to sit in this for a little bit and say, okay, we're going to visit that decision next spring a year from now.

[651] We're going to rent it for a year.

[652] And we may have to clean it up a little bit after the renter to sell it.

[653] Can't just be.

[654] Well, Dave said I should.

[655] Or if you're both just gung -ho, you want to sell it, sell it.

[656] I don't care.

[657] But if it's uncomfortable for someone to do that, then you can sit on it a little bit.

[658] But the point still is moving in the right direction.

[659] having that alignment.

[660] That will help you build well so fast.

[661] That's a big deal.

[662] How long did it take you and Whitney to get aligned?

[663] Oh my good.

[664] Well, she worked here at the time.

[665] So it was a snap of a finger.

[666] We were lucky in that regard.

[667] She was smarter than me, better looking, and better with money.

[668] So you were lucky in that regard.

[669] Yes.

[670] I'm catching off.

[671] All right.

[672] That's how that works.

[673] This is the Ramsey Show.

[674] George Camel Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[675] Thank you for joining us.

[676] Every dollar is our world club.

[677] budgeting app that helps you manage money the Ramsey way.

[678] It simply works wherever you are.

[679] iOS, Android, or online.

[680] You can start every dollar for free and immediately see where you stand with your money.

[681] You get organized, personalize your budget, stop overspending, and save more money.

[682] New to every dollar will show you a long -term financial roadmap, track your net worth, your debt -free day, your retirement date, your baby step progress, and more.

[683] And we're going to proactively coach you to build wealth and reach your goals.

[684] This app is taking over.

[685] Download the free app for iOS and Android.

[686] Or if you just want to do it on desktop, go to every dollar .com and get started.

[687] It works.

[688] George, the number of people, it's like 10 ,000 a day are joining this.

[689] It's crazy how it's blowing up.

[690] The number of people using this and starting to use it brand new.

[691] this app as you know we've had it around but we've added a bunch of features in the last 18 months and the popularity of those features and just the idea right now in america that i need to control my money with the budgeting process has caused of this just to explode that's so true the financial roadmap is just one we've got the paycheck planning tool so for people who need to know hey am i going to run out of money before the end of the month this will help you figure that out and some people that have the spouse or maybe they're that person who they're like i don't want a budget.

[692] You're not budgeting just a budget to be a nerd.

[693] You're budgeting to accomplish these goals.

[694] And you're not budgeting to punish your spouse.

[695] We are making a decision with our money like two grownups because we want to go somewhere.

[696] That's what this is.

[697] It's telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

[698] That's all it is.

[699] I don't really live on a budget.

[700] It's restrictive.

[701] No, it's grown up for you to tell your money what to do and not intentionally going to overdraft every month because you can't do sixth grade math.

[702] That's just being a grown -up.

[703] And so it's no lot, you know, a couple years ago, the millennials, they're not cool anymore.

[704] That hurts.

[705] But you guys said, adulting.

[706] Oh, that's right.

[707] Adulting, you can't say that it's not cool anymore.

[708] You made you sound cool if you said adulting about two years ago, three years ago.

[709] Now it's like you're just a boomer trying too hard.

[710] Yeah.

[711] Now there's loud budgeting.

[712] Gen Z made that one up.

[713] Loud.

[714] Have you heard about that?

[715] It's better than quiet quitting.

[716] Exactly.

[717] It's the opposite.

[718] And it's just loudly saying, I have boundaries with my money.

[719] I'm going to make a plan for my money.

[720] So what you made cool 30 years ago is now cool again, Dave, the trends come back around.

[721] It's probably on every dollar.

[722] If you want a loud budget, every dollar will do it.

[723] We could turn up the volume, I'm saying.

[724] There we go.

[725] Rhonda is in Seattle.

[726] Hey, Rhonda, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[727] Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

[728] I appreciate it.

[729] Sure.

[730] What's up?

[731] So I wanted to ask some advice over the last few years, my husband and I have really been and having a lot of trouble with keeping up with adjusting our withholdings every year.

[732] And, you know, we end up paying thousands of dollars come tax season, which is now.

[733] And again, this year, we owe quite a bit.

[734] And I feel like I'm saving all year just in expectation of this huge tax bill.

[735] Why are you not calculating your withholding correctly?

[736] I don't know.

[737] What are you doing incorrectly?

[738] What are you doing incorrectly?

[739] Well, I think I just wasn't aware of how much I needed to do that.

[740] And I do feel stupid admitting this because of the importance of it's like, oh, I didn't know.

[741] So the answer to how do I stop doing that is to become aware?

[742] Yes.

[743] And then go calculate it, right?

[744] Yeah, yeah.

[745] So technically speaking, technically speaking, here's your math, all right?

[746] Yeah.

[747] If you knew at the beginning of the year in January what your income is going to be approximately for the year and what your deductions are going to be approximately for the year, that you could calculate the exact amount of income tax you're going to owe in total.

[748] Does that make sense?

[749] Yes.

[750] And if you divide that into each paycheck, we know what should be withheld in the paychecks then.

[751] Yes.

[752] And so it's a sum, I mean, let's just be real.

[753] basic let's say it's $24 ,000 is your tax bill every year total then your withholding should be $2 ,000 a month right and I think yeah I think our problem is um it just the withholding doesn't keep up with no it's all screwed up yeah the IRS is incompetent they tell you the number of my daughter when she first got married now she's married the kids now but I'll never first job, she came over and said, Dad, how many deductions do I need to do?

[754] And we calculated out what her tax was going to be.

[755] She was a single lady out of college, not making a ton of money.

[756] And we had to claim seven deductions.

[757] She had no deductions, but we had to claim seven deductions to create the proper withholding so that the proper amount was withheld, so that she didn't owe any tax and didn't end up short like you have.

[758] And so, and didn't get a big refund either one.

[759] But that's dumb.

[760] I mean, so obviously their tables are screwed up, right?

[761] Right.

[762] So you can't really go on the IRS says you should have some.

[763] No, you've got to actually say this is the amount of tax I owe.

[764] It's almost like you do your tax return a year early.

[765] Right.

[766] And that's the, that's the most precise way to adjust it.

[767] Now, if you, if you hadn't had the trouble you've had, it may, it may be, but let's say if you had a steady thing for the last three years, you've got around $3 ,000 that you've owed every year, okay?

[768] But nothing has really changed.

[769] Then we probably know we just need to adjust it by $3 ,000 a year, right?

[770] $250 a month.

[771] Right.

[772] Easier.

[773] Yeah, that's easier than going and doing your whole tax return and figuring out exactly what tax is owed because nothing has changed.

[774] But now if you got married, moved states, income went up or down, bought a house.

[775] Had a kid.

[776] There's all kinds of stuff that could throw that.

[777] off right in which case you would need to go and run your calculation so what's your household income ronda um it is a this year well last year it was about 200 combined um what's your husband do for a living um he's got a federal um government job and then he's also got military doing what, retirement, homeland security.

[778] Okay, what do you do?

[779] I work for the state.

[780] Doing what?

[781] We both have government jobs.

[782] I work for the court system.

[783] Okay, I'm trying to learn about you guys for a second before I made this suggestion.

[784] Right.

[785] Because here's what I would do.

[786] It sounds to me, and you tell me if I'm wrong, okay, but it sounds like this whole thing just makes you want to throw up.

[787] all the time I just don't want to deal with it at all and I'm afraid I'm not doing it right and it scares the crap out of me and I don't want to keep doing it right because I feel ashamed and that's kind of what I think I'm hearing and so if that's the case and I'm in your shoes I'm just going to go get some help you make 200 grand a year spend a little bit of money and go see a tax professional go to Ramsey Solutions and click on ELP endorsed local provider for some of the tax pros we have have them sit down and calculate this for you and tell you what to do okay okay and make them show you the numbers don't just do it blind right but that way you don't have to go god i don't even know where to start calculating this crap you know yeah yeah and and i don't want to do it wrong again and i kind of hear all that and it's okay now the trick anytime you're hiring somebody to help you because of that feeling is to make sure you lean in enough to where you understand why they're telling you to do what you do.

[788] Right.

[789] You don't just blindly go, well, my tax guy told me, that's when you get screwed up, right?

[790] Yeah.

[791] So learn enough, but that way you don't have to do it.

[792] It's worth a couple hundred bucks.

[793] Let somebody else do it for you.

[794] Yeah, definitely.

[795] I think that that's, yeah, the other way to go.

[796] And I think just moving through the transitions of all the other things you mentioned, this is our first year without a dependent and, you know, getting raises.

[797] And I had a side job, and they didn't take hardly any, pretty much any federal taxes out.

[798] So I knew that I was going to have to save some out for that.

[799] So it's, but in the end, it's like, okay, still.

[800] Or you could just adjust her withholding, you could just adjust your withholding at the state or homeland by the amount that the side job is generating, right?

[801] Yes.

[802] Either way, as long as they're getting their money, they don't care, right?

[803] Right.

[804] Yeah.

[805] Yeah, have somebody help you calculate.

[806] Jump on ramsysolutions .com slash tax.

[807] I just went through this this weekend with my tax pro, and they showed me all the math and numbers, and it was super helpful to break it all down.

[808] So worth reaching out to a pro and have the peace of mind there and fully understand what's going on.

[809] I always see how much I'm paying it just pisses me off.

[810] I would love to be your tax guy, Dave.

[811] That would be fun.

[812] Yeah, it's like you're doing taxes for the Grinch.

[813] This is the Ramsey Show.

[814] George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[815] Thank you for joining us.

[816] We're so glad you're here.

[817] Hey, thank you guys.

[818] We're seeing our numbers on Spotify and our numbers on Apple Podcast.

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[821] We appreciate you listening, watching, and sharing the show.

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[823] All this stuff affects the algorithms.

[824] It really does.

[825] we you know honestly don't be mean or anything we don't really need the affirmation but it does affect whether these algorithms push the show forward when someone's searching stuff so really it does help us a ton and it's a big deal so and also if they got a share button on your platform use it or just tell people about it or click a link and send it to your friend and cut it out and cut and paste it and say this is a show you need to be watching this is information this life changing these guys are these guys and gals are fun and funny and helpful, and those are the things we are.

[826] Sometimes we're mean, but most of the time it's just because we love you.

[827] Sometimes all at once.

[828] And it takes that to get your freaking attention.

[829] You've been funny and mean at the same time.

[830] That's one of your trademark moves.

[831] What?

[832] Yeah.

[833] David is in Phoenix.

[834] Hey, David, how are you?

[835] Hi, Dave.

[836] Hi, George.

[837] Thanks for taking the call.

[838] Sure.

[839] How can we help?

[840] Dave got a question about a Roth conversion.

[841] and trying to figure out whether or not that's something it would be right for me. I'm 69, still working full -time.

[842] I'll be working for a few more years.

[843] I've got a self -directed traditional 401K and then a small traditional IRA.

[844] And, again, just trying to figure out whether or not, you know, tax -wise, it makes sense to...

[845] How much is in all of those?

[846] Those two, about $605 ,000?

[847] Okay.

[848] All right.

[849] And what will happen, what are you going to do with that money, that's $605 ,000 in the next 20 years?

[850] In the next 20 years, well, when I stopped working probably in a few years, it'll just start supplementing.

[851] You know, I've got some retirement pensions, but it'll just supplement the money that will we live in on.

[852] Okay.

[853] So here's why I'm asking.

[854] There's a couple of things that go into the answer of the math on this.

[855] The longer you're going to leave the money alone, the more sense it's going to make to convert it and go ahead and pay the taxes.

[856] It's not going to make any sense to convert it and pay the taxes out of those funds.

[857] Let's take the $600K.

[858] It's maybe $200K in tax.

[859] Do you have $200K in addition that you would pay the tax without messing with this?

[860] Yeah, we've got some other mutual funds and things.

[861] Okay.

[862] So because if you just reduce it by the, let's say you reduce the $600 by the tax amount and then it becomes tax -free, it's an exact wash. It doesn't, there's no benefit to doing that.

[863] Well, there's no benefit mathematically.

[864] Now, if you pay the money outside, number one, then number two, the longer you leave it alone, the more it's going to make sense, then there's two other factors.

[865] for you to weave into whether you want to do this or not.

[866] One is you've got mandatory withdrawals on it now beginning at 72 and a half.

[867] Okay.

[868] Your required minimum distributions or RMDs, you're aware of that probably.

[869] Correct.

[870] It used to be 70 and a half.

[871] They just moved it to 72 and a half.

[872] Okay, so with a Roth, you don't have that.

[873] Gotcha.

[874] The second thing is when you die and you leave a traditional, the taxes will be paid by the person.

[875] the income tax on that account will be paid by the by the person who inherits it there's no inheritance tax on it but the income tax will still be paid as if you you will either pay the income tax when you pull it out or they will pay the income tax when you pull it out if you leave a Roth to someone there's no tax because there's no tax on a Roth okay I got you so it's good for estate planning it's good they're not have to screw with the RMD but if you're going to turn around and be using up the money in the next four or five years it's probably probably not good right right okay okay so what could an idea be then dave is to use let's say i went ahead and did that i retire a few years and i start i start living on the money that are in not in those vehicles that are just in regular mutual funds yeah and then when those run out per se or what have you 10 years for now or whatever then start using the other money you could you could do that what's your total net worth uh 6005 in the in the in those that i just mentioned and then 725 000 and in just regular mutual funds um your house paid for yes sir what's it worth 750 or so okay so you got about two 2 .1 million dollar net worth okay give or take i mean you may have some other assets we hadn't talked about but that's that's about where we are so um i'm 63 i will never touch my retirement account i've got plenty of other assets so i have converted it all to roth so i don't have to screw with rmds and my kids don't have to pay taxes on it no arn b no taxes okay because i'm not going to touch it it's going to go to them got you it's by you know because i've got i'm going to live off of other stuff.

[876] I've got a bunch of real estate.

[877] I've got a bunch of other income and so on, right?

[878] So I'll never touch that stuff.

[879] So it's a pure estate planning and RMD play for me. So every year, my 401k here at the office, I have to match myself, duh, but matching a 401k is required to be traditional.

[880] It cannot be Roth.

[881] And then I flip it to a Roth in December of every year.

[882] So I don't own a, all 100 % of mine has been converted to Roth.

[883] But, that's the reason because I'm never going to touch it okay and so it's going to grow tax free if I live like into my 90s and I'm 63 it's going to be millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars just that one account right going to the kids completely tax free it's awesome okay okay got you so that's the way I'm looking at it but again if you're going to turn around and pay the taxes by converting it and flip turn and take the money right straight back out.

[884] It does, the math does not work.

[885] Don't do that.

[886] Okay, gotcha.

[887] So that's the way I'm, that's why I'm trying to go through this.

[888] And George, you know, that's what, this is one of those things that has changed with me. It's not the advice has changed.

[889] But once I got to this age, finally, I started doing this show at 32, right?

[890] So when I got to this age, we talked about Roth like it was some distant thing in the clouds.

[891] It's out there in the mist somewhere.

[892] And now the stink of thing staring me in the face.

[893] And I'm going, yeah, but I did all this other stuff, right?

[894] And I don't even need the money.

[895] So I got to start thinking about it even different yet again.

[896] And so it turned, you know, we used to say convert it to Roth because it's going to grow tax -free and you'll have all that tax -free money when you get to retirement, which I do.

[897] I've got all that tax -free money.

[898] I'm 63.

[899] I can.

[900] I can.

[901] I can access it.

[902] Zero penalty, zero tax.

[903] I can get a hold of it right now if I want it, right?

[904] But why would I?

[905] It's growing for the next 20 years with zero tax on that growth.

[906] The government already got their money.

[907] That's going to do that for me or for them.

[908] And so it's changed my perspective of how important that tax -free thing is when you look at it.

[909] When you look at it through the lens of the estate tax or the RMD.

[910] Yeah.

[911] And for people wondering out there, should I be doing this, there's a certain spot in the baby steps.

[912] We tell you that's the right point.

[913] It's not in baby steps, one, two, three, even four.

[914] It's seven.

[915] It's once you have a paid -for house, then you can take the hit and pay the taxes on that.

[916] But before that, you should be focused on the home payoff.

[917] That's a very important clarification before that.

[918] We were talking to a multimillionaire baby step seven guy, and I just assumed everybody knew that.

[919] So you're good clarification.

[920] I don't want people to go out there just converting left and right after hearing that call.

[921] That man's in a very different place.

[922] He's got a paid for her house.

[923] He's done the baby steps.

[924] Yeah, he's got extra money laying around.

[925] You got extra money laying around, and you're in your 40s, 50s or 60s, and you're in baby step 7, and you want to advance your wealth, the way to do it is to get the government's hands off of a big block of it by converting it to Roth.

[926] And the RMD is these required minimum distributions.

[927] The reason they have those on traditional is because the government wants their tax money.

[928] Yeah.

[929] And they don't get any tax money out of the Roth.

[930] It's done.

[931] You've already paid it.

[932] So they're going to get their money.

[933] They're going to get it out of your kids hide or out of your hide with the RMD or when you take it out otherwise.

[934] So, yeah, or when you convert it, they're going to get their money.

[935] The traditional is going to be taxed.

[936] It's just a matter on who and when.

[937] And so you can control all of that with this conversion discussion.

[938] So you can talk to one of our SmartVester pros, and they can help you do the calculations on this.

[939] Go to Ramsey Solutions .com and click on SmartVester and get somebody that we recommend in your area.

[940] George Camel Ramsey Personality is our co -host today.

[941] Open phones at AAA 8255 -225.

[942] if Kyle is with us in Milwaukee.

[943] Hi, Kyle.

[944] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[945] Hey, guys.

[946] Thanks for having me on.

[947] Sure.

[948] What's up?

[949] So I have a quick question, kind of that my wife and I have been brainstorming.

[950] I took a job about a year ago that makes me commute 50 minutes one way.

[951] And this is kind of, you know, causing a little conflict and work schedule with her being a teacher and working first shift and me kind of working some days first.

[952] same second shift, but most days just, you know, second shift.

[953] We don't really see each other that much, but we're kind of in a pickle because we do have a good deal in terms of, you know, expenses.

[954] Our rent is only like $400.

[955] It's kind of a deal that we got when we, you know, moved in together during college.

[956] What do you make?

[957] What do you make?

[958] Well, we together make about $120.

[959] be bringing about 120 what do you make um i make about 7 000 a month she's a teacher she makes about 3 so about 10 10 10 and if you were to move close to your work how far is she from hers well the thing is she could get a different job since she's a teacher she could get a job um you know kind of in any city you know the market for yeah because she's not making my teachers no she's not so that's kind of the other the other thing is like She can be flexible with her job and we can move closer here for time's sake.

[960] What's the difference in rent from where you are now to where work is?

[961] Yeah, that's actually a great question.

[962] The closer you get to Milwaukee, the more expensive it gets, you know, in terms of, you know, taxes and whatnot at the end of the year.

[963] So the difference would probably be, I mean, you know, going from 400 to like $1 ,500 plus.

[964] $2 ,000 plus.

[965] You guys make $10 ,000.

[966] Mortgage.

[967] That's $1 ,000 a month.

[968] Yeah.

[969] $1 ,000 a month more.

[970] This doesn't seem like a big conundrum financially for you guys.

[971] No, I don't think it would be, but, you know, I watch a show and whatnot, too, and I'm like, you know, we're calculating everything.

[972] And we're like, in five years, if we just kept doing this, we could have like $300 ,000 in cash, saved up.

[973] we could purchase the home straight up in cash, you know, we wouldn't have...

[974] In five years, you would have $300 ,000, which is $60 ,000 a year.

[975] If you reduce that by $12 ,000 a year, that would be $48 ,000 a year you're saving.

[976] So in five years, you'd have $250 ,000.

[977] Okay.

[978] And that's not including if you get a raise in the next five years.

[979] Or if she gets a better paying job.

[980] So those are other factors that play into this.

[981] So the fact that you have, my point is, the fact that you have chief rent is not what's causing you to buy a house in five years.

[982] It's your incredible savings rate.

[983] Yeah, we're pretty, we're pretty frugal.

[984] When we watch you, we watch, you know, Grand Steffen and.

[985] Yeah, that's what that's what did.

[986] I mean, not Graham Stephan, he's great, but he didn't do it, you did it, but you're frugal.

[987] That's, my point is, 50 ,000, 48 ,000 of the 60 a year you're talking about saving has nothing to do with.

[988] the rent.

[989] You understood what I did.

[990] Yeah.

[991] 300 divided by five is 60 minus 12 ,000 for increasing $1 ,000 a month is 48.

[992] Yeah.

[993] Okay.

[994] So 48 times five, basically $250 ,000, you're going to have instead a $300 ,000.

[995] It makes a dent.

[996] And that's the difference in the rent deal.

[997] So moving does not keep you from accomplishing that exact same goal, except that you're not going to buy $300 ,000 house for cashier by $250 ,000 house.

[998] But I'm saying you're right on track for all that.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] That's what I'm thinking.

[1001] So I don't know.

[1002] I don't know what we would do, but we were weird in so many ways.

[1003] Sharon and I, I have never in my life had a long commute.

[1004] And so, I mean, this morning I drove eight minutes to the office.

[1005] And he lives 15 minutes away.

[1006] You do the math.

[1007] how fast he was going down the interstate.

[1008] But anyway, that's also true.

[1009] But aside from my driving habits, the chance I'm burning up two hours of my life a day is pretty close to zero.

[1010] Yeah, that's the thing.

[1011] You get your life back.

[1012] My dad did this growing up, Kyle.

[1013] He drove an hour each way to work outside of Boston, and it took a toll on him.

[1014] I just talked to him the other day, and he said, man, you don't know what that did to me for 20 years doing that and I don't think it's worth it yeah I I would change something at you know now I can do it I can do it for a short period of time I can do anything for a short period of time we can embrace pain to have a greater outcome that's an amazing thing what you're talking about doing is you know we can put up with this if it gets us to our goal of paying cash for a house I like your your mindset with that and so but there's a lot of different things it could change you could change jobs you could change locations you could change entire city you could change a lot of things but I'm doing some number of those variables to get my life back as a newly married guy that never sees his wife that's just that's hard yeah I'm a short commute guy so I wouldn't be able to do that and the rent's not $5 ,000 I am a complete wuss I have to have my home time I think you'd have more road rage if you had a longer commute America doesn't need that right now Dave we need healing you know longer Dave's on the road It's a danger I do not have road rage I've driven behind you and in front of you It has nothing to do with rage It has to do with you being in the way My little Tesla car Get out of the way You and your little battery car Move over Get out of the way And then you won't have a problem You've seen a Mad Max Fury road There's a sign that says Don't drive in the left lane If you're slow There's a sign that says that George It can only go so fast It's on a battery Get in the right lane And then you don't have these problems It's not a problem for me I don't have any road rage at all.

[1015] Mad Max Fury Road is a documentary about your driving.

[1016] That's not even a fictional movie.

[1017] Fury Road.

[1018] It just filmed Dave driving and then CGIed it with some actors.

[1019] That's all it was.

[1020] I have never flipped a soul off.

[1021] And it's been 20 years since I flipped somebody off.

[1022] Turn from my never to 20 years.

[1023] Yeah, well, I had to be honest.

[1024] But I don't have road road road road.

[1025] I don't get mad.

[1026] I don't get mad.

[1027] I get frustrated with people like you in the wrong lane.

[1028] But other than that, move your little back.

[1029] battery car over.

[1030] Oh, man. Those little battery cars are supposed to go fast.

[1031] You could just push on that thing and make it go.

[1032] I could take you in a race.

[1033] I know you could.

[1034] You probably could.

[1035] You're too competitive.

[1036] Yeah, you run fast.

[1037] I've seen you run.

[1038] So you're quick.

[1039] You're quick on your feet.

[1040] You're that guy.

[1041] That's fun.

[1042] So if we don't laugh, we cry.

[1043] The deal is this, okay, there's always, it's a good discussion with Kyle in Milwaukee because there's always a tradeoff in personal finance.

[1044] Some of you are listening and going, I live.

[1045] in LA, everything's an hour commute.

[1046] Just get on the 405.

[1047] Now you're talking an hour, right there.

[1048] I mean, period.

[1049] So I get it.

[1050] I get it.

[1051] I live in Nashville, so I'm spoiled, as long as I don't try to go to Nashville, which now takes three times as much time because all you people from L .A. moved here.

[1052] So, and the stinking place is now crowded.

[1053] But anyway, the, but, but, you know, I understand some of you a commutes a normal thing.

[1054] That's okay.

[1055] So I was saying, I know what.

[1056] I would do, but that's not a financial principle.

[1057] It's not a moral imperative that if he wants to do that, and it's fine with him and it's fine with his wife, but he called because it wasn't fine.

[1058] And so, but you get to make choices, and when you're making choices, there's always a trade -off.

[1059] The choice is I'm going to drive a, I'm going to drive a not -so -great car, so later in my life I've got so stinking much money I can drive whatever I want to drive.

[1060] I'm going to live like no one else so that later I can live and give like no one else.

[1061] When you say that, you're saying, I'm making choices.

[1062] And what we want you to do more than just follow us blindly is learn that principle of intentionality because no one wins the Super Bowl on accident.

[1063] No one has a great marriage accidentally.

[1064] No one accidentally builds wealth.

[1065] And so be very intentional and look at it and go, I'm going to make that trade for that result.

[1066] And so we're saying, are we going to make a $1 ,000 a month trade to not have a two -hour commute?

[1067] We're both saying we personally would.

[1068] As long as it's a quarter of your take -home pay, no more than that.

[1069] Exactly.

[1070] There you go.

[1071] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1072] From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1073] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, the phone number here.

[1074] is AAA 8255 -2 -2 -2 -5.

[1075] George Camel, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author of the book, Breaking Free from Broke, is my co -host today.

[1076] Thanks for joining us.

[1077] Alicia is with us in Chicago.

[1078] Hi, Alicia.

[1079] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1080] Hi, Dave.

[1081] Thank you so much for having me. My question, I've got about $3 ,000 in collections that me and my husband owe.

[1082] We haven't negotiated down to about $1 ,500, roughly.

[1083] Most of that is in writing.

[1084] Some of it is not.

[1085] The question is I was going through some of that today.

[1086] And while I was reading it, they were saying that they were going to report it on my credit report is paid in full with partial payment if I decide to do that.

[1087] And then I'm going to owe taxes on some of it.

[1088] So I have the money to pay the full $3 ,000.

[1089] The question is that which, Which route would really honestly be better at the end of the day?

[1090] Is that pay the full amount or to pay the partial payment?

[1091] Pay the amount you've negotiated down to.

[1092] Pay the amount.

[1093] May ask why?

[1094] Sure, sure.

[1095] Because technically they're supposed to send, and they don't always do it, a $10 .99 for the difference.

[1096] Okay?

[1097] So let's say that, so you have a $1 ,500 you've negotiated the $3 ,000 down to, so you've had $1 ,500 in debt.

[1098] forgiveness.

[1099] Does that make sense?

[1100] And debt forgiveness on 1099 is taxable, and you would report it on your tax return when you get a 1099 from them.

[1101] And they're supposed to send a 1099 to you and to the others.

[1102] They don't usually do it.

[1103] They usually just use that as a thing to mess with you.

[1104] Now, taxes on $1 ,500 if you're in a 30 % tax bracket are 500 bucks.

[1105] So do we pay them an extra $1 ,500 to keep from paying $500?

[1106] No. No, right.

[1107] That's why I said that.

[1108] So that's the math on it.

[1109] Now, I will add to it, there's a different component, and that is a moral or a spiritual component where you're looking at it and you feel like, you know what, I owe that money.

[1110] I should pay it.

[1111] I've got the money.

[1112] If that's the case, then you should pay the money on that basis, but not because of the threat of taxes.

[1113] Okay, now what is, so my dilemma is the fact of I'm trying to clean up my credit out of a bad situation that me and my husband got ourselves into.

[1114] Yeah.

[1115] And as far as a credit position, which it doesn't even matter, because it's all going to be considered a pay in full or a charge off on ways.

[1116] Yeah, both are a collection item and both damage your credit.

[1117] One damages it more because you didn't pay the bill in full.

[1118] But it's not, certainly not the end of the world.

[1119] Besides that, you don't need to be borrowing a bunch of dead gun money anyway, so you don't need credit.

[1120] Okay, okay, perfect.

[1121] Is that?

[1122] Yeah.

[1123] What would you need the credit for?

[1124] Do you guys have any other debt?

[1125] No, we don't have an, well, I shouldn't say no. We do have a student loan debt of $17 ,000 that needs to be paid off, and we have, we've started budgeting, and we've started, we should have that cleared up by the end of the year this year.

[1126] Good.

[1127] is the way it's looking at, and we would like to, in two years, be able to buy a home.

[1128] You will be.

[1129] You will be.

[1130] Two years from now, none of this will.

[1131] It'll be on there, but it won't count sufficiently against you to keep you from getting a home.

[1132] Okay.

[1133] Yeah, that's not, it's not going to do enough damage to keep you from getting a home.

[1134] Because I'm also guessing that if you're in this situation, you've got other bills that are already paid that were paid late.

[1135] Yeah, yeah.

[1136] And most of those I've been able to work with them, and I've gotten.

[1137] them to take our late payment off of our record except like one late payment.

[1138] The rest of them, they have all absolutely agreed and said not a problem and have taken both all off our history.

[1139] You better check and make sure that actually happened because they, again, don't follow through very well.

[1140] That stuff is usually done by download computer files, and honestly, the people keying in the stuff are not that bright, usually.

[1141] So you better check it.

[1142] You better keep a constant watch on your credit bureau and see if all that's really happening or not.

[1143] So, which is good news for everybody.

[1144] You ought to check your credit anyway, even if you're not going to be using it.

[1145] You don't know what's on it.

[1146] Make sure mine's been at zero and frozen for decades now.

[1147] As soon as they allowed you to freeze it, I froze it.

[1148] And of course, it was zero because I haven't borrowed money in 30 plus years.

[1149] So I just don't have any credit.

[1150] And if you go to annual credit report .com, you can pull that for free once a year from all three credit bureaus.

[1151] And I think it's wise to do that just to make sure there's no fraud.

[1152] Especially in your situation like she's in.

[1153] Making sure there's no fraud and making sure there's nothing going on.

[1154] Everything's accurate.

[1155] Yeah.

[1156] Even the stuff that you did borrow one.

[1157] In my case, I'm so far removed from that that it's not necessary for me to check it.

[1158] But it is a good, it is a good exercise to check it, or, you know, once a year, all three of them, too, because the different ones come up with, there's 52 % of the credit bureau's reports have errors.

[1159] Oh, wow.

[1160] 36 % have errors that are so egregious that they would keep you from getting a loan.

[1161] for the wrong reason, or keep you from getting a home for the wrong reason, a home loan, which is, yeah, that's a big deal.

[1162] All right.

[1163] Jeanette is in Canton, Ohio.

[1164] Hi, Jeanette.

[1165] How are you?

[1166] Hi, I'm good.

[1167] I'm so excited to ask this question to this duo.

[1168] Dave, you're awesome.

[1169] You've got to start it all.

[1170] In George Camel, I love Smart Money Happy Hour, and you're just a human version of an exclamation point.

[1171] Oh, wow.

[1172] Thank you.

[1173] Quite the compliment.

[1174] Wow.

[1175] So my question today really sort of a change in my mind.

[1176] And I'm curious as to why I would need a financial advisor.

[1177] My husband and I are in baby steps four, five, and six.

[1178] We're working to pay off our house in the next three years.

[1179] And I just, I have a hard time justifying an expense for somebody to tell me to do what I'm already doing.

[1180] So I'm curious to know what you think about that.

[1181] Well, why do you think George and I use one?

[1182] I know, I honestly don't know.

[1183] I don't understand what they would tell me that's different than what I'm already doing.

[1184] I found that when I have a third party looking, a bird's eye view at my entire financial picture, they see a lot of things I don't, and they live and breathe this stuff.

[1185] So they're thinking about tax strategy, state planning, giving strategy, ways to minimize taxes, ways to maximize my investments.

[1186] And so they're looking at things from a very different viewpoint than I have.

[1187] It's not just, hey, can you help me pick a fund?

[1188] And I can go pick a fund out of the $8 ,000 and do a pretty dead.

[1189] I'm good job.

[1190] I've, you know, been licensed in that.

[1191] I've done that.

[1192] I used to do that for a living, you know, and so it's, I'm very competent and capable of doing it.

[1193] It's certainly responsible enough to do it.

[1194] But what I don't have is I don't spend every day looking at mutual funds.

[1195] Like the number of hours I spend looking at mutual funds in a given year is very small because I just buy stuff and keep it.

[1196] I don't think that much about it.

[1197] I look at my statements and I keep moving, but they're out there moving around in that forest all the time.

[1198] And sometimes my guy will call me up and go, hey, there's this thing happening.

[1199] You may or may not want to do it, but I just want you to know about it.

[1200] And he teaches me something I didn't know before about a particular fund or fund class or whatever.

[1201] Again, it's, and what we pay them is a very small amount to manage the existing account.

[1202] There's not that much to it.

[1203] I'm not paying somebody a big, huge annual fee.

[1204] uh this is just you know we're paying i pay them when i purchase george pays them on the balance of his account rachel pays them on the balance of her account she runs that managed funds process just like george does so i think we think it's worth it that's why we endorse smart vester pros and why we use them personally this is the ramsay show george camel ramsay personality is my co -host today thank you for joining us our live event season is in full swing we've got three events coming up where you can go and be with us and experience the different Ramsey teachings live and in person.

[1205] The big dog is the total money makeover weekend coming May 10th and 11th.

[1206] It is almost sold out.

[1207] You can still get tickets if you go ahead and do it.

[1208] This two -day event is the ultimate motivator to get you fired up and get your friend, your spouse fired up, get everybody on the same page, get out of debt, become wealthy, be outrageously generous, have a total money makeover.

[1209] George will be speaking, Jade, Rachel, of course, Ken Coleman about how to get your income up, Dr. John Deloney, about the effects of this on relationships and stress, and how to win in these areas.

[1210] We're going to give you the tools to win.

[1211] We're going to walk you through these time -honored processes, and it's a full -on experience.

[1212] Lots of Q &A, lots of stuff happening over the whole weekend.

[1213] It's here on the Ramsey campus, and it's, you know, it's a Friday evening all day, Saturday, day, come in a little early on Friday, watch this show happen on the glass.

[1214] Smart Money Happy Hour that night is one of the things we do to kick it off that night.

[1215] And it's one of the things to do.

[1216] So you definitely want to come to this.

[1217] May 10th and 11th, go to Ramsey Solutions .com slash events and get your tickets.

[1218] George and I will be doing Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials, a two -night virtual event, May 21st and 22nd.

[1219] We're going to go through material we were working on some of it today, polishing it up.

[1220] that I've really never taught.

[1221] It is my personal playbook on investing, including my real estate, and what I do.

[1222] These days, my friends that I run with are typically, you know, 10, 20, 30, 100 million net worth people, and what do they do?

[1223] And, you know, what are real people that are real investors do, not some character on TikTok trying to sell you something?

[1224] 17 -year -old on TikTok showing me how to do it.

[1225] The mother's basement, yeah.

[1226] Yeah, the calculations you were walking us through in the meeting, Dave, I think, is worth the price of admission alone.

[1227] So if you want to really do this the right way, Dave's going to really show some stuff you've never talked about before on stage or on air.

[1228] Yeah, well, I mean, even our content people are going, I've never even heard that.

[1229] Well, I don't teach it.

[1230] I just do it.

[1231] You know, so anyway, Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials, May 21st, 22nd tickets at ramsysysolutions.

[1232] And then this fall, October 24th and 26th, through the 26th, the money and marriage getaway with Dr. John Deloney and Rachel Cruz.

[1233] But those two together, this is fun.

[1234] No question.

[1235] This is a barrel of monkeys right there.

[1236] I'm just telling you.

[1237] They are going to, you have a blast laughing about your marriage, learning about your marriage.

[1238] They get into stuff.

[1239] This is adults only.

[1240] I mean, we're going to, they get you, they teach you what you need to know to win in marriage.

[1241] And Dr. John is not ashamed to go there.

[1242] If they don't invite me to speak, I will pay to be there.

[1243] That's how much I love this event.

[1244] Oh, it's really good.

[1245] It's really good.

[1246] And we can probably get you a ticket.

[1247] I know a guy.

[1248] Yes, that was my way in.

[1249] Ramsey Solutions .com slash events.

[1250] Check it out and watch and see what we're doing, probably more coming soon.

[1251] Lee is in Buffalo, New York.

[1252] Hi, Lee.

[1253] How are you?

[1254] Hi, Dave.

[1255] It's Leah.

[1256] It's Leah, right?

[1257] I'm sorry, I said it wrong.

[1258] How can I help?

[1259] It's okay.

[1260] Okay, my husband just got terminated about two weeks ago.

[1261] And we're oddly, we're oddly too calm about this, I think.

[1262] I'm a little thankful.

[1263] Okay, what did he use to make?

[1264] Okay, my husband was about $60 ,000.

[1265] Uh -huh.

[1266] And what do you make?

[1267] I am a full -time student right now, finishing my associates degree.

[1268] So how are you eating?

[1269] Pretty well, actually.

[1270] Where's the money coming from?

[1271] Where's the money coming from for pretty well?

[1272] Well, like I said, he just got terminated.

[1273] He is on a stipend until the end of May. Okay, a severance package?

[1274] Yes, very generous.

[1275] Okay.

[1276] Through the end of May. So we've got two months almost from today.

[1277] What did he do?

[1278] What do you do for a living?

[1279] I mean?

[1280] He was a warehouse supervisor.

[1281] Why was he terminated suddenly?

[1282] Okay, very odd.

[1283] And they were told that they were going down different paths and that the job was going in a different direction.

[1284] We were blindsided completely out of the blue.

[1285] So it's more of a layoff than termination.

[1286] It's permanent.

[1287] I know it's permanent, but a layoff is permanent.

[1288] I mean, it doesn't sound like he did anything wrong.

[1289] I believe he didn't.

[1290] Was there a lot of conflict and toxicity leading up to this?

[1291] There was a lot of toxicity with a new boss who's been there about just over a year.

[1292] Okay, who doesn't have the chops to actually say why you fired your husband.

[1293] So that's what it was.

[1294] It was not we're going in a different direction.

[1295] It's, I don't like you, you're fired, and I don't have the guts to tell you why.

[1296] Yes.

[1297] Okay.

[1298] All right.

[1299] So how long had your husband been there?

[1300] three years okay cool all right and so why are you so calm because you got this thing to may i think that's the reason i'm we're both very oddly calm at this time i don't know i feel at peace with it but i just um we've been following your program for 19 months paid off the majority of the debt that helps that helps um we do have one credit card it's at 13, and we have one car, which is about 11, besides the mortgage.

[1301] Yeah, so I would do what you're suggesting and say, we're going to put full stop on any total money makeover debt snowballing and just push pause and pile up cash because we're right square in the middle of a storm, right?

[1302] And then here's what I don't want, here's what you've already done, and I don't like it, and I want to encourage you to stop it.

[1303] And that is, he came home and has.

[1304] has grieved this and is angry and hurt and wounded and betrayed and doesn't know what he did and all this for two weeks.

[1305] I want him to go get a job now because if he gets a job like this week making as much or more money, this severance is a signing bonus.

[1306] It ends up being a blessing that he got fired.

[1307] Go get a job making $70K this week.

[1308] Okay.

[1309] Go after it like your head.

[1310] hairs on fire.

[1311] Okay.

[1312] Because you could, every day between now and the end of May that he gets a job, the sooner he gets it, the more your signing bonus is called severance that you didn't need.

[1313] And the faster you're out of debt completely, the faster you have a fully funded emergency.

[1314] All of that money could be used to accelerate your debt snowball.

[1315] You follow me?

[1316] I do.

[1317] Yeah.

[1318] So don't be calm.

[1319] Don't be panicked, don't be panicked, but be very fired up and wired up about, Yay, I'm away from that twerp.

[1320] I don't have to work there anymore.

[1321] Let's go make more money, and let's do it right now.

[1322] Okay.

[1323] Yeah, don't wait until June.

[1324] Now, I have one more question.

[1325] We have about $15 ,000 in liquid assets, but we might be forced to take a, to like, withdrawal from the 401 pay to cash it out.

[1326] Why?

[1327] Should we?

[1328] Why?

[1329] they've been very pushy about it um the company is based out of a different country well just take your 401k and roll it to an IRA you don't take it out to an IRA don't withdraw you want a direct rollover direct rollover yeah okay you don't ever want to see the money yeah get with one of the smart vestor pros and just roll it they can fill out the paperwork they'll deal with the weird company stuff and um you know you can get some basic information but yeah just roll that you don't need to withdraw it and leave your liquid cash sitting there and pile up as much liquid cash as you can and your husband ought to be working like six jobs uh side gigs right now while he's looking for work and then go get work immediately let's create so much income in this 60 day period of time and a new job in the midst of it that this whole thing ends up being a blessing and you look back and go thank god he got fired by that toxic twerk you know that's a big deal that's big but mindset is when I get fired, the first thing I do is nothing.

[1330] It's normal because you get knocked flat on your back.

[1331] And I'm just saying, get up, get up, get up, shake it off, get up, get up, go, go, go, go.

[1332] Instead of like, don't put me back in, coach, that hurt, you know?

[1333] And that's true, that's the way you feel.

[1334] You get in this foggy haze.

[1335] Yep.

[1336] You got to snap out of it.

[1337] Exactly.

[1338] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1339] Thank you for joining us, America.

[1340] George Camel Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[1341] Today's question comes from Mike in Washington.

[1342] Here it is.

[1343] We got, should I reduce the amount of car insurance coverage on an aging car?

[1344] My car is eight years old and worth 6 to 7 ,000.

[1345] Should I keep all the, quote, bells and whistles or move towards a liability only type of plan?

[1346] Well, what you would do if I were in your shoes is price it.

[1347] Sometimes the bells and whistles really aren't that expensive.

[1348] Bells and whistles in your case, you're calling collision, which replaces your car.

[1349] So if you have a $7 ,000 car, do you have $50 ,000 in cash?

[1350] If you don't, you need to keep collision because you need to be able to write a check and not touch your emergency phone and replace this car to self -insure.

[1351] Now, I'm in a position financially.

[1352] I can self -insure through all of my vehicles easily.

[1353] I choose not to because I looked at what it caused.

[1354] me to insure a car that's worth X. I spend Y and I'm basically buying insurance and it's worth it to me to do that.

[1355] The transfer the risk.

[1356] Yeah, exactly.

[1357] The car is 50 grand.

[1358] It costs you a grand for that coverage.

[1359] It's worth the peace of mind for you to just pay the grand.

[1360] It's a risk transfer and it removes in my case some of the liability as well because the puts an attorney with the insurance company between me and an accident.

[1361] And I imagine when the attorney sees the named Dave Ramsey they get a little excited yeah on the other side yeah that's that's they get really excited because they they sometimes mistakenly think that means they're going to get something and what they didn't really grasp was that really means they're in for the fight of their life but anyway so but that's the insurance company's problem right so um yeah that's uh in other words i had the one i remember the most mike like this is i had an old jeep we had down at the Lakehouse, and it was about $3 ,000, and I got, I thought, why do I keep collision on that?

[1362] That's dumb.

[1363] I got teenagers, there's one reason, but at that time, but, um, and I looked up and I, so I asked the insurance guy, said, hey, it went on a drop collision.

[1364] He goes, it's going to save you $150 a year.

[1365] Hmm.

[1366] When, they want to insure this worse than I don't want them to.

[1367] So for 150, sold to the man in the green jacket.

[1368] Yeah.

[1369] I was just checking my numbers to see what my collision is out of my policy.

[1370] It's about 50 % of my premium is going toward collision.

[1371] Okay.

[1372] And on a $6 ,000 or $7 ,000 car, it's not a lot of money.

[1373] So you probably, unless you've got a big pile of money to self -insure, you need to keep the collision in place, most likely.

[1374] You're going to look, and look at the trade -off, the dollar spent versus having the coverage.

[1375] It usually is a good buy.

[1376] It might be $100 and you go, all right, I'm willing to keep in.

[1377] Now, if you got a super bad driving record or I don't know what you're driving, you're driving, you're driving some weird car that gets stolen all the time or something like that, like a Hyundai or something like that.

[1378] But yeah, I can't get a Hyundai covered right now.

[1379] It's awful.

[1380] And so, sorry Hyundai.

[1381] I didn't do it.

[1382] You guys did when you built them where they could be stolen so easy.

[1383] I've heard about it.

[1384] And I think he is as well.

[1385] Or very easily stolen.

[1386] Same thing.

[1387] Yeah.

[1388] Same mess.

[1389] Yeah.

[1390] So anyway, there's a theft problem on them for some reason.

[1391] Well, I know the reason I'm not going to go into it.

[1392] I'm not going to help with it.

[1393] So anyway, the, yeah, look at it, unless you got some kind of weird car situation, it's not going to cost you much to cover this.

[1394] And when you actually look at the actual savings, you're going to go, it's not that much money.

[1395] That's what I think you're going to do.

[1396] That's what I did in most of the cases I've looked at.

[1397] Catherine is in San Diego.

[1398] Hi, Catherine.

[1399] How are you?

[1400] I'm good.

[1401] Thank you.

[1402] Thank you for taking my question.

[1403] Okay, so I'm waiting for my final tax returns.

[1404] I hired a company to negotiate and get all my taxes caught up.

[1405] I ended up becoming self -employed back in 2015.

[1406] However, I've been learning a lot, unfortunately, the hard way, and my bookkeeping is a mess, and now I owe a lot of money, and I didn't know.

[1407] You haven't paid taxes since 2015?

[1408] 15?

[1409] No, I paid, I paid, I paid some, but not all of it.

[1410] How much do you think you're going to do?

[1411] It's probably going to come out to about $50 ,000.

[1412] $50 ,000.

[1413] Do you have any money?

[1414] No. No, I mean, I just got the $1 ,000.

[1415] I just started listening to you guys.

[1416] What's your income?

[1417] It fluctuates, and it goes from 30 to 50.

[1418] and so you're still self -employed this is a business you run yeah yeah this is a business that I run and just for the last three years it's it has stayed at 50 and I'm working a part -time job what other debt do you have I just when my debt I back in 2022 everything I didn't make much money So I ended up accruing, I paid everything off, and then I started using credit cards again, so I'm back up at $10 ,000 in credit cards.

[1419] So you have IRS debt of probably $50 ,000 of $10 ,000, anything else?

[1420] Yeah, that's it.

[1421] And then my regular rent, and those are my, you know, the necessities of rent and food.

[1422] So you make $50 on a good year, you owe $60.

[1423] Let's put it that way.

[1424] So we need to get into it.

[1425] Is your credit trashed?

[1426] I beg your pardon?

[1427] Is your credit trashed?

[1428] No, I've been keeping up with the payment.

[1429] Do you own a home?

[1430] No. Okay.

[1431] And I just had an accident two years ago.

[1432] It was a brand new car that I was already, like, two payments away from paying it off, and then it got totaled.

[1433] That was the bad year where I only made, I think it was about, I made like $22 ,000 that year.

[1434] So when my car got totaled, um that was it and i luckily had bought another car um that was cash it's an old car it's a good car it's a Toyota and um for some reason i just saw this person selling it and i'm like you know what i'm going to buy it um because you never know and sure enough the new car got totaled so i've been driving my Toyota and of course um i'm not buying a new car until i can pay something cash But you don't have any money?

[1435] No. So the money from the, money from the insurance from the total car is gone.

[1436] It's gone because it was paying the bills after, because like I said, that was the bad year.

[1437] I have used that money to keep up with the rent and to keep up with paying my.

[1438] Okay.

[1439] The IRS is going to be penalizing you and taxing you until you get this 50K cleared.

[1440] You can put it, your guys that were working with you, your tax folks and probably fairly easily negotiate a payment plan.

[1441] It's going to be a substantial payment until you get the 50 cleared.

[1442] But that 50 is going to be with you a while if you only make 50.

[1443] So what I would love to see you do is I doubt you can do it.

[1444] But if your credit union will loan you the money to pay the IRS, I'd rather you owe the credit union than the IRS.

[1445] It's less interest and they're much easier to work with.

[1446] They're more human.

[1447] And so I want to get the IRS out of your life as fast as you possibly can.

[1448] But if you're going to be fooling with this for three or four years, and you may be if you don't change your income, then we're just going to work a death snowball.

[1449] We're going to clear these credit cards.

[1450] But I want you to fight to get your income up and try to add some more because, I mean, even $5 ,000 or $10 ,000 more than you're making now, a side hustle or whatever thrown at this 50, you can start chunking it and getting it away and getting it done.

[1451] And of course, no more bleeding.

[1452] You've got to get your books in order and you've got to stay current from this point forward so that you don't just trade old tax debt for new tax debt by not taking care of business again.

[1453] So you really, really, really have to go in and have a healing in this area.

[1454] And you might need to go, should I be running this business right now?

[1455] Should I go get a full -time job working for someone else making even $25, $30 an hour would give you a raise compared to what you're making now?

[1456] So that's an option to consider if this becomes too much.

[1457] Or both.

[1458] I don't know what the business is, but both.

[1459] If you can do the business and keep the 50K plus a full -time job.

[1460] And go make a 50K, then you can clear this up in like a year, you know, that kind of thing.

[1461] So I'm going to be fighting and scratching and clawing to try to get my income up.

[1462] And I try to get the IRS out of my life as fast as I can if I'm in your shoes.

[1463] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1464] Our scripture of the day, dear children, let us not love with words or speech, but with actions and in truth.

[1465] 1 John 318 C .S. Lewis said one of the most cowardly things ordinary people do is shut their eyes to facts.

[1466] Deb is in San Antonio.

[1467] Hi, Deb, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1468] Hello.

[1469] Hi.

[1470] What's up?

[1471] Yes, we have recently found out that our daughter is in need of prosthetic jawbone joint replacement on both sides of her face.

[1472] Wow.

[1473] And although she's in a tremendous amount of pain, our insurance company considers this a cosmetic procedure, and they do not want to cover it.

[1474] The part they will not cover is in the ballpark area of $65 ,000.

[1475] And we're wondering, what is your advice to people in the situation?

[1476] We do not have an extra $65 ,000 hanging around.

[1477] This is a serious need.

[1478] If we do not do it.

[1479] How old is your daughter?

[1480] She's 22.

[1481] how long has this been going on um she started having a lot of pain about a year ago so we went to an orthodontist and there said oh there's a serious problem here we're going to send you to a specialist the specialist said we think we can help help you we need to put you in braces for a year that year came and went recently and they reevaluated and said oh, sweetheart, we can't help you.

[1482] We need to send you to a different specialist.

[1483] And so we recently saw that specialist who said, oh, dear, your choice is prosthetic chalbone joint replacement.

[1484] Okay.

[1485] And you've seen only one person?

[1486] We saw the orthodontia.

[1487] The one specialist, you haven't gone and gotten a second, third opinion on this issue.

[1488] The specialist we saw locally, it was very good.

[1489] He said, you know, we can possibly fix this.

[1490] by splitting the upper dog.

[1491] $65 ,000 and you're going to take my jawbone off.

[1492] I'm getting second, third, and fourth opinions.

[1493] This is our third opinion.

[1494] No, it's the first opinion, and you liked it because you liked him, is what you just told me. Then you changed your story.

[1495] I'm sorry, I didn't mean to explain it that way.

[1496] We feel very good that we're in good hands.

[1497] We've talked with our orthodontists, our dentist, the specialist in our town, the specialist in the other town.

[1498] I don't know who else to go to you.

[1499] went to a specialist in the same field in a different town and took her there and he looked at her and she looked at it and gave you the exact same diagnosis well her MRI we took her job on right there is gone wow what a horrible thing i'm so sorry well i just the only thing i know the only thing that we've had experience with is in the medical community is to always get lots of different people looking at a problem that is a severe, not just simply one that I like.

[1500] And you've got one plus one looked at it out of town when you sent the MRI over.

[1501] If I were in your shoes, I'd answer you, you'd ask what we would do.

[1502] What we would do is we would keep working the problem because there may be another solution that is insurable.

[1503] I don't know.

[1504] I don't know anything about this from a medical perspective, a zero.

[1505] I have no knowledge of it, but I'm just working a problem.

[1506] I'm working a project here and an issue and my baby's hurting.

[1507] And I can hear her pain in your voice.

[1508] And so, and I don't blame you for, you know, wanting that pain to go away.

[1509] That's a good mom.

[1510] So, but I'm going to, I'm going to try to figure out that.

[1511] Then the second thing I'm going to do is, let's say that you talk to maybe two or three more people in, you're in San Antonio.

[1512] So you're, you know, you're in Dallas.

[1513] and you're in Houston talking to people and in personal visits and they're looking at it and saying, oh, and then you ask around that community and you find, I'm going to become a dadgum expert if I'm in this situation over the next two months if my baby's hurting in this situation.

[1514] I'm way too old and ornery to trust one dock on something that's this, that's this unusual.

[1515] This is not a simple thing that happens every day to somebody.

[1516] I've lived my whole life.

[1517] I've never heard of it happening before today.

[1518] So it's very unusual.

[1519] Would you agree with that?

[1520] Yes.

[1521] Okay.

[1522] So for that reason, I'm going to just keep researching.

[1523] Then the second thing I'm going to do is once I have established for sure in my mind, and you may already have, you may not want to take that piece of advice.

[1524] That's fine.

[1525] It's okay.

[1526] You ask what we would do.

[1527] We're here to help you.

[1528] We'll tell you what we would do.

[1529] Once I've established that it is a absolute necessary situation that it is not cosmetic, it's a dad -gum medical problem, then we're going to start talking more sternly immediately to the insurance company.

[1530] As a matter of fact, I may go ahead to start that conversation now to the point I might hire an attorney to make them provide the insurance money.

[1531] So you might spend $3 ,000 or $5 ,000 on an attorney instead of spending $65 ,000.

[1532] thousand on the procedure and make the insurance company insure it because I don't know I have no knowledge but I'm going to uh I don't accept the first answer from the doctor and I don't accept the first answer from the insurance company I am cynical I'm suspect of all of these people until I get this problem solved okay that I don't mean that in a mean way I'm just saying until the problem is solved they're part of the problem okay and so And that's the way I'm fighting it, because I'm a warrior -style person.

[1533] Think about it this way, Deb.

[1534] If I were to pay you $65 ,000 in order to fight this as your full -time job, would you do it?

[1535] This is your full -time job.

[1536] And so that's how I look at it.

[1537] And I'm just doing some quick research online, and someone went through the same thing.

[1538] And they said it was 50K for all of this.

[1539] It was a huge battle with insurance.

[1540] But eventually most of that was covered.

[1541] And they, again, had to fight.

[1542] They said these surgeries are medical, not dental.

[1543] So as long as you're in that work.

[1544] But where'd you find that?

[1545] I just did some Googling, Dave.

[1546] I'm very sleuth -like like that.

[1547] So there's stories out there.

[1548] I would connect with people who have been through this and ask them how they did it, how they fought it, just to give you some hope that it can be done.

[1549] But it's going to be a journey.

[1550] Fighting insurance companies is not fun.

[1551] Yeah.

[1552] And so you got a, I guess, so the reason for my cynicism is, let's be real blunt.

[1553] you got a bad diagnosis or a bad treatment plan the first time you go the orthodontist spent a lot of money is honey we spent a year in pain and oh didn't nothing zero so why do I you know and then he's going to recommend well I don't care what he recommends because the last thing he recommended sucked so I mean I'm pretty much firing this guy you know I mean that you don't get like three choices on this stuff so um yeah figure out what is is if it's the only way and then what is the best way then if it is when i was a younger and less nice version of dave um my wife was diagnosed before we had children uh with uh being pregnant oh we went and told everybody a baby's on the way we go in for the first thing the ob goes oh i messed that up and i went dude you got one job how do you mess that babies and you mess up the baby job you're fired and he goes what do you mean i said we'll be transferring her files somewhere else your whole thing you do is to find out if babies are coming and make them come and you didn't make that hat and you screwed that up and now i got to go tell all my relatives no babies on the way yeah dude you are so fired and my wife's like and i and i wasn't even that nice um insurance like you embarrassed me and i said yeah yeah yeah he embarrassed you she won't be seeing him again it's fine so yeah oops till you run into them at a grocery store 30 years later it's why they call it practicing medicine yeah that is scary so um we're just giving it our best shot yeah so anyway we had obviously had three wonderful children later and had a wonderful OB experience one guy took care of all of those and he was right every time family friends so i'm not a perpetual jerk to all doctors that's not the point but um if you got one job dude one job and you mess that one up so That's two dreams today.

[1554] I wanted to be your tax guy, just the C -U -I -Rate, and I want to see you, I want to be your OB now.

[1555] Your failed OB -Doc?

[1556] Yep.

[1557] Epic failed.

[1558] Dave, never mind.

[1559] I did not see.

[1560] I thought I saw something.

[1561] Epic failure.

[1562] Epic failure.

[1563] Golly.

[1564] Yeah, I read the test panel wrong.

[1565] Yeah.

[1566] You flunked.

[1567] When I happened in college, that's called an F. Yeah, out of there, done.

[1568] That puts this hour in the books.

[1569] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1570] in the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace.

[1571] Christ Jesus.

[1572] If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization, because whatever you lead can only grow as much as you do.

[1573] I know from experience.

[1574] I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years, and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you on the Entree Leadership podcast.

[1575] I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out how to overcome challenges within your organization.

[1576] One episode could change your business.

[1577] Check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or on the Ramsey Network app.