Jonas Brothers

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Rather.

[2] I'm joined by Mrs. Jonas?

[3] Mrs. Jonas.

[4] Oh, my God.

[5] Mea!

[6] Mrs. Jonas.

[7] Wow.

[8] Mrs. Jones?

[9] Yeah.

[10] The Jonas brothers.

[11] Fucking ding, ding, ding, ding.

[12] All of them.

[13] All three Joni brothers.

[14] Well, there's actually four Jonas brothers.

[15] So we had three of the four.

[16] Yes.

[17] And they're so cute.

[18] They were.

[19] This was so fun.

[20] It was incredibly fun.

[21] And I think people have listened to the show long enough know that I have a very longstanding bit with my children about the Jonas Brothers.

[22] So it really came all full circle.

[23] It did.

[24] This is the first time the kids have come out for a guest.

[25] First time, yeah.

[26] They came out.

[27] They took a little pick.

[28] Yeah.

[29] I mean, they come out, but it's on accident.

[30] They don't care.

[31] This one they knew.

[32] And somehow they both were conveniently in the backyard when we concluded.

[33] Yeah.

[34] They needed it.

[35] They deserve that.

[36] Yeah, it was really, really fun.

[37] Well, the Jonas Brothers are, of course, multi -platinum and Grammy Award nominated band.

[38] So many great albums, Happiness Begins.

[39] That came out of nowhere like a rocket ship.

[40] They called the best comeback of all time.

[41] We get into that.

[42] They have a new album out right now.

[43] It should be easy for you to remember the title because it's called The Album.

[44] And it's damn good.

[45] You're probably already listening to it.

[46] You probably already know.

[47] There's been singles that have come off of it.

[48] but lots of fun throwback inspirations and we get into all of it and they're all so cute and nice they are they were so nice they were very fun i liked this a lot me too we've never interviewed three people at once yes which was a little scary yeah there's a lot going on you want to get out their whole story but also it's like there's three people so you're trying your hardest to make sure everything's equal yeah there's a lot of things happening yeah but i think it went smoothly and then what was so crazy is we interviewed them and then literally the next week i'm in Miami at the Formula One, all of a sudden, someone pulls my arm, I turn around, and it's Kevin.

[49] Oh, no way.

[50] Yes.

[51] And then they're right behind.

[52] So those three were there, and I took some pictures with them.

[53] Oh, my God.

[54] And I was like, the timing of this is crazy because it happened three weeks before, I would have saw them, oh, there's the Jonas Brothers.

[55] But we got to really chat.

[56] Oh, I love that.

[57] Yeah.

[58] They looked cool.

[59] They're dressed cool.

[60] They're very cool.

[61] They're very cool.

[62] They're very nice.

[63] Here they are, the Jonas Brothers.

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[67] Wow, we've never had this many people.

[68] I know, this is very novel for us.

[69] We're excited.

[70] You're always this quiet or you start slow.

[71] What's going on?

[72] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[73] We'll step out.

[74] I'm sure your brothers won't care.

[75] We don't have a door, so we'll step out.

[76] Very normal.

[77] All right, sorry about that.

[78] How'd it go?

[79] Nice.

[80] That was a big success.

[81] Okay, wonderful.

[82] Fully executed.

[83] Okay, great.

[84] Was it a thick stream?

[85] Did it feel healthy?

[86] It looked hydrated for sure.

[87] Oh, we like that.

[88] Hydration.

[89] Transpation.

[90] You're 30, so like prostate's not even on your mind yet, but when you get to my right bold age.

[91] Unfortunately, it is.

[92] Oh, it is already.

[93] Our dad was, he is a prostate survivor.

[94] Survivor.

[95] I get 30, make sure you get screened.

[96] I lost a step down to prostate cancer.

[97] Sorry to hear that.

[98] Oh, thank you.

[99] Yeah, they say that if you live long enough, every male will get prostate cancer.

[100] Have you guys heard that?

[101] Oh, really?

[102] Yeah, like if you live long enough, everyone will get it virtually.

[103] They're going to need to figure that out when they figure out how to anti -age, how we can live to 200.

[104] I don't know if I would want to live.

[105] To 200?

[106] Oh, what a great starter.

[107] Tell me why.

[108] There's no reason for my grandchildren's children's children to deal with any of the trauma that I could still be around to deal with with them.

[109] Okay.

[110] So you feel like you need to...

[111] I got to get out of here.

[112] They need to prune the family tree is what it sounds like you're saying.

[113] And by the way, this is Kevin speaking, and I'm sure America already know that, but we have three boys in this attic, which we never ever have.

[114] Now, back to you, Kevin.

[115] You're concerned about living at 200 years old.

[116] I don't know.

[117] How do you feel about living to 200?

[118] Well, but hold on.

[119] That's why I want to set up some parameters before you vote on it.

[120] Okay.

[121] Are you imagining yourself at 200 years old?

[122] in this scenario where you're like 2x as old as we've ever seen somebody, or are you at this current age, but chronologically you've lived 200 years?

[123] Thank you.

[124] That parameters change a little bit.

[125] Yes.

[126] I'm thinking I've aged to what will be 200.

[127] Okay, no. So when I'm suggesting to you is that we have figured out the mechanism by which aging starts.

[128] They figure out how to arrest that.

[129] And now you just stay as you are right here for another 170 years.

[130] Are you more open to that?

[131] Because no one will be changing your diapers.

[132] That's true.

[133] Well, everyone else I love stop at a certain point too?

[134] That's a great question.

[135] Can they all afford the procedure?

[136] Yeah.

[137] So it's kind of like the poor people in your life aren't going to be here anymore.

[138] I feel like there's got to be some.

[139] Your brothers will still be here.

[140] Got it.

[141] Got it.

[142] Got it.

[143] So the answers no. So the answers no. Those parameters maybe as long as my wife can be with like sure, more time with her.

[144] Amazing.

[145] Well, and you have two kids, right?

[146] And you have two kids.

[147] But what I'm getting at is if they get to a certain point and they stop aging.

[148] And then my grandchildren, their grandchildren, it's like at a certain point, just we're all at the same age.

[149] It just feels like there's no. It just feels like there's no dynamics in world.

[150] It does beg the really interesting question of like, when will people decide to arrest their aging?

[151] Will I be talking to a 200 -year -old woman who's 18?

[152] What are the morals of dating?

[153] Someone who looks 18, but is 200.

[154] There's so many things that we'll have to figure out.

[155] Okay, really quickly.

[156] I love it.

[157] I'm like, who has two daughters?

[158] Joe, you have two daughters.

[159] We just have one.

[160] You just have the one daughter.

[161] We just had your wife on.

[162] She had the best time with you guys.

[163] Did she really?

[164] She did.

[165] She was raving about it for days.

[166] Oh, my God.

[167] That's the ideal thing.

[168] She told me something different.

[169] Yeah.

[170] I don't know about that.

[171] She said to say hi, by the way.

[172] Oh, wonderful.

[173] We were quite taken by her.

[174] I feel like we, okay, sorry, but I just feel like we should, together, I'll start a charity now, money for people who want to stop aging at 20.

[175] Interesting.

[176] That's a good idea.

[177] Like a Go -fund meme for.

[178] Yes.

[179] For the future.

[180] When this does come out.

[181] Exactly.

[182] Just start a fund now to grow for it.

[183] Yes.

[184] We'll need a lot of money for that.

[185] It'll be federalized.

[186] It'll be fun.

[187] My ex -girlfriend.

[188] This was first being.

[189] suggest that there might be an operation you could receive.

[190] But I said to her, look, I don't think I have enough money for both of us to get the procedure, but I want to tell you, I will stay with you till you're dead.

[191] But then I will remarry.

[192] So there's a lot of mixed messages.

[193] It's a very like vampire -esque.

[194] That's what it is.

[195] It's vampire.

[196] It's a lot of life to live.

[197] It is a lot of life.

[198] We'll table it to everyone's older and they don't want to die, but everyone's opinion will change.

[199] But quickly, let's start with the fact that all three of you boys, Although, coming from the same parents, all born in different states.

[200] This is confusing to me. Okay, so Joe is from Arizona.

[201] And then you were born in Dallas, Texas, right?

[202] And then you were born in New Jersey, Kevin.

[203] What were mom and dad doing that they were flip -flopping around that much?

[204] So our dad, similar to a military family, our dad was a minister.

[205] Uh -huh.

[206] So he kind of hopped around for jobs.

[207] It was like, hey, we need a youth pastor in this state.

[208] We need a full -time minister in this state.

[209] He was also a musician.

[210] so it was like a worship leader in this state.

[211] So we just kind of like grew up wherever he was working.

[212] And also when they just got married and they had nothing, her dad was roofing with our grandfather in Arizona.

[213] Oh, terrible.

[214] Crazy heat.

[215] Yeah, so all over the map.

[216] What drove him to the clergy?

[217] That's not the word, but what made him a minister?

[218] He grew up in North Carolina in Hog Hill, which is outside of Charlotte.

[219] He had a life -changing experience with a friend of his from high school who was religious and was trying to get him to the church, and this person died tragically.

[220] And it sort of, like, set our father on a course to seek God out and ministry and sort of reset his life.

[221] And it led him to Dallas, Texas.

[222] And they both went to a place called Christ for the Nations, which is a ministry college.

[223] Evangelical?

[224] Evangelical.

[225] Okay.

[226] And they met in the registration line.

[227] Oh, wow.

[228] They never dated.

[229] One day they both just looked up, my dad, I guess they were on a walk.

[230] This is the version he tells us.

[231] But, you know, they just said, we both.

[232] We've been in love with each other for two years since we met and let's get married and start a family.

[233] It took them that long.

[234] But they didn't date.

[235] This is a story they tell us, which we always go.

[236] It's too perfect.

[237] What do you tell you your children?

[238] It's too magical.

[239] But also, the thing with this particular college, which is a great place for some, and obviously we have it to thank for our parents' meeting.

[240] But at this point in time, early 80s, it was not encouraged or even, I guess, not allowed to date because the mission was to create ministers and missionaries and pastors.

[241] Yeah, stay focused on the Lord.

[242] Correct.

[243] Yeah, not playing grab -ass in the comments.

[244] Between communion.

[245] They do say the most amount of marriages happen at the end of Bible College, though.

[246] Oh, really?

[247] Because they're all pent up.

[248] Who says that, Kevin?

[249] It's a Bible College joke.

[250] Oh, really?

[251] Wow, are we going to hop right into this?

[252] I need to know where everyone stands on religion.

[253] Oh, wow.

[254] Let's get it.

[255] That's great.

[256] Love it.

[257] And then we should talk politics and...

[258] I've got some trans issues.

[259] we'd love to get your opinion on.

[260] We go to all places.

[261] I'm not religious.

[262] I'm spiritual.

[263] And don't speak for all of us, obviously.

[264] But growing up in the church, that was our whole life because we were homeschooled for a lot of the younger years because we started touring very young.

[265] And all of our friends were really from the churches we grew up in.

[266] When our dad decided he was going to really co -manage our career because it was taking off so much, he said goodbye to the church.

[267] And, of course, people in the church at that time didn't really like the idea that our dad was focusing more on us than the church.

[268] And we weren't doing it.

[269] Christian music we were doing pop.

[270] Worldly music.

[271] Secular music.

[272] To them it was music.

[273] Like, no, how dare you sing about anything but?

[274] Your crush.

[275] Yeah.

[276] Anyway, back then, seeing how quickly they turned on our father, I was 13, 14, trying to understand that.

[277] You felt defensive of your father, I'm sure.

[278] So I was just like, screw you, church.

[279] And as I got older, I just realized, for me, I like the idea that there's a higher power.

[280] Do I start praying to something when there's a little bit of turbulence?

[281] 100%.

[282] There's so many different walks of lives and little things I pick up from other people, whether if it's their religion or their walk with spirituality that I'm like, oh, I'm so inspired by.

[283] So it's more about the relationship I have with God for myself and my journey than it is for the institution.

[284] I don't have to go to church every Sunday to have a relationship with God.

[285] Right.

[286] And that's exactly how I approach it.

[287] But I still have a relationship and I think it's an important one for myself and my family and we still go to church on Sundays and do things like that.

[288] But that's my journey.

[289] That's lovely.

[290] And then, of course, you married a gal from India who came with her own religion.

[291] That's been around a lot longer than...

[292] Yes, as it turns out.

[293] Yes.

[294] Than other religions.

[295] You know, I think for all of us, our journey with faith and religion was pretty concrete in the early part of our life because of our parents being a ministry.

[296] As that sort of all fell apart and we began to resent the church and certain individuals, I think we had to come back to some level of forgiveness for that journey and what it meant and start to separate the two ideas.

[297] Yes.

[298] People ruin religion historically.

[299] And that's kind of what happened.

[300] in our experience.

[301] Now, all of us to say, I have a deep and meaningful relationship with God, but God has taken very many different shapes than just what I read in one book now and marrying an Indian woman who is Hindu.

[302] I've learned so much about that religion and faith that is so inspiring and we're raising a child who's going to have elements of biblical truths and principles and also from the Hindu faith.

[303] Maybe sprinkling some Wicca in there too.

[304] I miss it.

[305] All of it.

[306] Throw it all.

[307] It's not the kitchen sink at this kid.

[308] I would imagine, in a generous state of mind, feeling good, you would probably be able to assess the reaction of your father's peers as being people who felt abandoned.

[309] Yeah.

[310] And then in that abandonment, you get defensive and protective.

[311] I think at that time, we were like, why did you let them win?

[312] You do nothing wrong.

[313] That was frustrated.

[314] It was like a breakup when you're young, you know, you're like trying to comprehend adult things, but your kid.

[315] Well, and I think it's deeper in that because it's not an individual.

[316] It's a community.

[317] You guys were immersed in a community.

[318] and that feels very foundational.

[319] And when that's gone, you're kind of like, huh, well, then what was all that about?

[320] Yeah.

[321] Yeah, we're getting super deep here, but that's what we did.

[322] We definitely took a lot of that.

[323] Let me ask your favorite color after this.

[324] Yeah, please.

[325] A lot of that trauma into, you know, the early stages of our career.

[326] And the first chapter where everything was so fragile.

[327] Being sort of exiled by one community, everything did disappear overnight.

[328] And as a family, we're living in the church parsonage, which is the home the church owns.

[329] We moved into a two -bedroom home with six of us in the family and our uncle living with us.

[330] Our life was flipped upside down.

[331] So I think once we started to have success in our career, we started to think, oh, this could all go away, just like I did before.

[332] A flip of a coin.

[333] And so we have to sort of behave a certain way and approach this with extreme care.

[334] And there's no room for creativity when you're crippled by that.

[335] Or you're just saying yes to every opportunity, not questioning things as any individual would when they're an artist.

[336] We're just saying yes, because we don't want to disappoint anybody.

[337] If we say no, we're not taking this seriously.

[338] Or you think you're bigger than you are, you're not grateful, you feel entitled.

[339] Yeah, you have an ego and you're just like, no, it's just I would like to sleep, you know, more than four hours.

[340] It had to be compounded the stakes of your success, knowing your father has left his safety net in his community and his group of friends.

[341] Now you guys succeeding, I think, started off with a lot more pressure than perhaps it would have traditionally started out with.

[342] Yeah, it had to work basically.

[343] Right, right, right, right, right.

[344] We certainly were not thriving in any other area of our lives because we had made our work and what we were doing, the focus of everything.

[345] Oftentimes, people were like, you know, did you play sports growing up?

[346] It's like, didn't.

[347] And don't feel like we missed out on things.

[348] We are so not woes me type folks.

[349] We weren't very good at sports, so speak for yourself, Joe.

[350] I think the need for it to work was compounded by a lot of things.

[351] And certainly the kind of uprooting of our life and his career and everything else was a factor.

[352] Okay, now Nick, you start on Broadway at seven.

[353] Yes.

[354] So are you the first performer of the three?

[355] It was.

[356] That's interesting.

[357] Sorry.

[358] I went for an open casting call when I was four.

[359] Boom.

[360] I went for an open casting call for when they were doing in Dallas for Miracle on 34th Street.

[361] That's right.

[362] They were possibly going to have a boy play the main role.

[363] I got pretty far.

[364] I'm pretty embarrassed that I don't know conventionally what the lead was.

[365] Was it a little girl?

[366] Yeah.

[367] Oh, okay, they were going to flip.

[368] Because guys don't have any opportunities.

[369] I'm glad that they were Yeah, that's really nice.

[370] It was a black girl, but they decided it was...

[371] Let's open up to little white men.

[372] That was my first experience.

[373] Okay, so that's kind of interesting because I would think traditionally, it's like an older brother does something, a younger brother copies.

[374] I'm a younger brother.

[375] And so for me, whatever he did was what we were doing.

[376] Like, oh, we're into punk rock, great.

[377] We skateboard.

[378] That's what I do.

[379] Yep, me too.

[380] There was some of that.

[381] We all still had our own loves.

[382] When Nick started musical theater, at that point Kevin and I are old enough to get into like punk rock.

[383] Jersey rock and roll scene was real.

[384] So I was like that's not something we would do because that's not cool to us.

[385] But then you go see the shows that he's in and you'd see him on stage and he's like damn that looks so fun.

[386] He's killing it.

[387] I remember bringing a crush of mine on like a date essentially to watch him in his show and she was just enthralled.

[388] And I was like I have to do this.

[389] I need to be on stage.

[390] I need to be on that.

[391] Like are you kidding me?

[392] She was like he's amazing.

[393] Oh my God.

[394] You think we can meet the cast?

[395] You think the lens backstage?

[396] I was like, probably, yeah, yeah.

[397] What's your brother doing this weekend?

[398] You've never been as excited about anything I've ever done.

[399] Well, that's great.

[400] Sorry.

[401] So, Nick, how did you find your way on the Broadway at seven years old?

[402] It's kind of a bizarre story.

[403] But so our father working ministry brought us to New Jersey.

[404] He became a senior pastor.

[405] For those that don't know, New Jersey is in a lot of ways known for being kind of the armpit of...

[406] Punch line of New York.

[407] But it is actually quite...

[408] beautiful and an idyllic place to live.

[409] Garden State, yeah.

[410] And for us, it was 45 minutes from New York City.

[411] By the way, the Sopranos, Tony lives in New Jersey.

[412] Yeah.

[413] This is good living right there.

[414] He's got a beautiful yard, nice McMansion.

[415] Yeah, it's gorgeous.

[416] There's a few parts you might not want to go to.

[417] Sure.

[418] In the Newark area?

[419] I don't want to say it.

[420] You don't want to sing.

[421] For all the Newark listeners.

[422] But, yeah, so basically my parents came back from seeing a Broadway show one night when I was, I think, six.

[423] And I had already been singing for a while, and I was obsessed with singing and performing it.

[424] At church, I would imagine.

[425] At church and at home, our dad, is a musician as well as a penis and a vocalist and they came back with a program from Le Miz and I didn't know anything about the show I didn't really know much about musical theater as a whole apart from the fact that I used to watch the stage version of Peter Pan every night so they come back with this program I sort of like do a deep dive on the show at 7 my mom was getting her haircut our mom was getting her haircut by the way my siblings and I do that too we're putting a pin in that because we're going to come back around that we definitely yes I was just with her and I was killing time while she was getting her hair done started singing and And the woman next to her said, my son is actually in Les Miz at the moment.

[426] And your son is great and sounds like he could do it.

[427] Why don't you go see this manager?

[428] No way.

[429] So Shirley Grant, rest in peace.

[430] She was like the it New Jersey kid actor agent manager.

[431] Our parents brought all of us to this audition for her.

[432] And the walls were lined with photos of young actors and some people that you would definitely know and others that, you know, we didn't.

[433] And a lot of kids that were in like Nickelodeon shows and things like that.

[434] And it was mind blowing to us.

[435] Right?

[436] That was one of the kids.

[437] Oh, I loved Pete and Pete.

[438] So the young kid from Pete and Pete, he was discovered there.

[439] The Young Pete?

[440] Wow.

[441] So her office, it smells her like your grandmother's house.

[442] Like, it had that warmth of like a powdery perfume.

[443] And her big, you know, white hair.

[444] And she had to read a scene and sing.

[445] And I only knew songs from pop music.

[446] So Celine Dion and Stevie Wonder and all this.

[447] And she basically tasked me with going back and learning more musical theater stuff and started sending these two on auditions.

[448] And they did commercials.

[449] So the whole gang started at the same time.

[450] Because as a proper family, he can't be the only one.

[451] We would have to be a part of it too.

[452] We shoved our way in that audition.

[453] It's a theme of our lives.

[454] But then basically, yeah, I eventually came back, sang for her again, and I sang a couple show tunes.

[455] Do you remember what those were?

[456] Yeah.

[457] Sing, sing a song, sing out loud.

[458] And, you know, six -year -old me would like my...

[459] We got some...

[460] And I just can't wait to be king was like her go -to.

[461] Every young singer that's a song.

[462] You can sing an audition.

[463] We can ball out on that song.

[464] But then also, I would sing a very dramatic rendition of Where's Love from Oliver, which is a great song.

[465] Oh, yeah.

[466] I would do this really, like, overly dramatic thing.

[467] But I started doing shows pretty quickly after that.

[468] He's so humble.

[469] He did the most amount of Broadway shows before the age of 11, like, ever.

[470] Ever.

[471] You know what's curious is you were on Broadway when my wife was on Broadway, The Crucible.

[472] Wow, that's awesome.

[473] I have such a bizarre story about your wife that I have to share with you.

[474] Did you guys sleep together?

[475] Oh, my God.

[476] Wouldn't that be some shit?

[477] I don't love it.

[478] Good for you.

[479] What were you?

[480] 18 and a half?

[481] It's not that great a story, I guess.

[482] But I did this event years ago.

[483] It was at the Beverly Hilton, I believe.

[484] It was a Cole Porter tribute.

[485] I remember she did this.

[486] She did this.

[487] She killed it.

[488] It was fantastic.

[489] My mom got to meet her, and they were hitting it off, very friendly.

[490] And I get up and I had prepped super hard for my performance.

[491] I'm singing, let's misbehave, classic.

[492] I even best have.

[493] love affairs and even bad most so I know every word I've got three songs here Bob Talley and I get up on stage in front of Cole Porter's family is the estate and I just blank completely blank and I literally start like scatting oh my god this is making me so anxious I love this story your wife may not remember this but she was like the first person I saw coming off stage and was just like great job like gave me a thumbs up knowing that I just completely I think it's kind of a hard flex that you're just like, yeah, no, no, I'm going to scat this song.

[494] What are you going to sit there and listen to the music?

[495] By the way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way better than just kind of sitting there and vimbing with the music.

[496] I would have said, at the end I would have said, that was me doing Al Jereau doing Porter.

[497] I spent weeks thinking about how I could have better handled the situation.

[498] Yes.

[499] And looked more like a pro, but I was 17 or 18.

[500] Oh, my God.

[501] You need a hug.

[502] I was horrible.

[503] I flew right to Austin.

[504] Therapy.

[505] I flew right to the bar.

[506] I flew right to Austin to do something for South by the next day.

[507] And I was just so in my head that it was going to come up and they're going to ask me. Nobody cared.

[508] But your wife was very sweet.

[509] I mean, that's the great nightmare that we all have.

[510] How many times does that happen to you?

[511] Many.

[512] Many?

[513] And I actually view them as like core memories on one of the Broadway shows I did, and he gets your gun.

[514] Oh.

[515] I completely went up.

[516] Actually, in a Christmas carol as well, which the first show I did.

[517] Just went up, forgot the lyrics, and it was traumatizing.

[518] I know it didn't matter as much as it felt like it did.

[519] And that's always the case.

[520] And then there was one more time during a really like tragic guitar solo debacle that happened on live TV.

[521] In retrospect, I can kind of like laugh about how big I thought it was.

[522] But it did travel more than I wish it would have.

[523] And it did cause me to go into therapy.

[524] So what happened?

[525] Same deal.

[526] I'm guest performing with Kelsey Ballerini.

[527] And you're playing guitar?

[528] Is that?

[529] playing guitar.

[530] So basically it was during the time that the brothers were broken up.

[531] I'm doing solo stuff.

[532] Kelsey and I had a couple performances together and this is one of them and I come out for my thing and again I've rehearsed it a million times.

[533] I'm feeling really confident about it.

[534] Not even really thinking about it like it's a thing that is going to be problematic.

[535] I started off it's fine and as I sort of walked towards her I just went completely blank and I hit a wrong note and like blacked out basically and clocked that Oh my God.

[536] It was wrong and I couldn't stop to this day and like hours of unpacking it.

[537] I can't really figure out exactly what happened.

[538] Yeah.

[539] But I was like rushed right into a car and right to a plane after and I looked at my manager.

[540] I was like, I think that was bad.

[541] I was like in shock.

[542] And then it was like a really traumatic moment that shaped the pressure I put on myself to be perfect and to always be on.

[543] Yeah.

[544] So it led to a bit of growth and evolution post fuck up.

[545] Yeah, but it was like the worst moment.

[546] It was on television?

[547] Yeah, you can find it on YouTube.

[548] Was it on night and watch a talk show?

[549] We won't.

[550] CMT Awards or something, or ACMs.

[551] It was an award show performance.

[552] Okay.

[553] Ooh.

[554] So a lot of musicians watching.

[555] Yeah.

[556] So they know what's going on.

[557] Because you can do that at a Win Dixie barbecue in the South.

[558] Maybe no one would even know.

[559] I think anytime live TV is happening, it's the only time that I still get a little bit nervous.

[560] There's probably a technical term for it, which I should look up on Google or whatever.

[561] But you ever have those moments where you're in a setting and it could be this one or on stage in front of people or on camera?

[562] You're like, I could do something crazy right now and ruin my life.

[563] Those are intrusive thoughts.

[564] But that's the kind of thing that comes into my head for like S &L, for instance.

[565] Oh, always.

[566] I'm like, I could break a character and say something crazy.

[567] Not that I ever would.

[568] That is my biggest obsession.

[569] I compare it to, and there's a term we learned about it.

[570] It's the same experience as standing on a tall skyscraper and having an inexplicable urge to jump.

[571] Or like holding a child and you're like, something could happen right now.

[572] Or I'm going to put my finger in its soft spot.

[573] That term is called the call of the void.

[574] I remember I was really little.

[575] I was raising my sister at like six and my mother would be like be careful of her soft spot and I was like what do you mean?

[576] That is so mean of the universe to just be like there's a really soft area of a head so that will not finish growing until they're like a year and a half you'll know when you find it when your finger goes into their skull also you yeah you said that as if that's like a universal thing like the jumping off the lead which that is a universal thing but nobody's ever heard of this soft spot thing a lot of my friends that like have held our babies are like where's a soft spot?

[577] They're like, just stare.

[578] I can see they're staring at it.

[579] Oh, there is a panic, especially with young, single men.

[580] Yeah.

[581] It's like, oh, God, like what is happening?

[582] Nope, no, no. So this void.

[583] The call of the void, I think I have it outsized of your average.

[584] I think I tick up a standard deviation.

[585] So generally when I walk into a room, I figure out really quickly what I shouldn't say.

[586] Let's say you walk in, there's a guy in a wheelchair.

[587] Oh, no, you always give examples.

[588] That's one you would do.

[589] You go like, okay, well, I got to stay clear of that.

[590] I don't want to offend anyone.

[591] And then once you identify what shouldn't be said, in my mind, I'm like, fucking say it, you pussy.

[592] You just say it.

[593] Get it over with.

[594] Just ruin everything.

[595] And then just similarly, I was on parenthood.

[596] My co -star Joy and I were really best friends.

[597] And we played a game.

[598] We would call it pulling your parachute.

[599] It's like, what could you do that would permanently and promptly warrant your exit from this business where no one would ever want to talk to you again?

[600] And we would sit around all day long and it was like, okay, Joy, how much you're at the Academy Award, you're about to announce best pitcher, and you say, and then I give her the sentence.

[601] And she'd be like, well, I guess I'd be gone for good, so I'd probably need like $200 million for that.

[602] And that was a game game play.

[603] Wow.

[604] That's amazing.

[605] It's yours to play.

[606] I've felt that way in the past, like, how are we not more crazy?

[607] Right.

[608] Like you three or people?

[609] Just like people in general, but also us.

[610] Then you remember, there's Florida people that are that crazy.

[611] Sure, sure, sure.

[612] There's some Florida man. Joe lives in Florida, actually, speaking of, in Miami.

[613] Yeah.

[614] Yeah, you left L .A. and you went to Miami.

[615] Yeah.

[616] But then I just read today that you sold your house in Miami as well?

[617] Yeah.

[618] So where are we at now?

[619] Are we in between homes?

[620] Transient?

[621] I think it'll be New York, probably.

[622] Every time we go back, me and my wife are just so inspired there.

[623] Yeah, and you're in New Jersey, Canada.

[624] I am.

[625] We went back about a year after we got married 12 years ago, and we just stayed.

[626] I have weird fantasies of landing back in Michigan or something.

[627] I think the compromise for me is Nashville.

[628] We were building a house in Nashville.

[629] That's great.

[630] That could be some kind of mix of that rural life.

[631] Okay.

[632] So your dad basically bets his life on this thing.

[633] You guys go on tour.

[634] You start making music.

[635] It goes really well.

[636] You guys are promptly in these camp rock movies.

[637] Those happen pretty soon into the career.

[638] Yeah.

[639] So we were first on Columbia Records, which is a Sony music record label.

[640] We put an album out.

[641] It did not do well.

[642] Actually, it tanked.

[643] And we got dropped from that label.

[644] But there was enough sort of shine to it.

[645] I think that Disney Music Group and specifically Hollywood Records came in and said, we know what to do with this and we were doing a lot of stuff at the time with them there would be a new ride opening at disney world they invite us and of course we're going to go absolutely and it's almost like they were like dating with us to see if it would if it could take it to the next level but we're also signed to somebody else yeah so basically while we know that we're going to be dropped from Colombia somehow they let us walk with our masters basically they're giving us all our music back for free without us having to pay a fee to get it which was a miracle yeah what do you explain that because it's very rare I think they just thought we were dead in the water This is better to not have.

[646] They probably like you guys.

[647] You boys are nice.

[648] At that time, too, there was a big political shuffle happening with executives.

[649] And it was like a turbulent time for the music business as a whole.

[650] This was like the introduction of the iTunes store.

[651] So like 2005 -6 -ish.

[652] They're also probably thinking these are almost value lists going forward.

[653] They were sitting on, let's call it, 100 plus thousand physical units that they weren't going to sell of an album.

[654] So I think they were just kind of like get rid of it, get it off the deck.

[655] During that time, we're living in that two -bedroom.

[656] home in Jersey that was basically a member of the church who really loved our father and our mother said you can stay in this for very little which was a lifesaver and we started writing music out of kind of desperation and our level of experience as a band you know we had had now nearly 10 ,000 hours that we didn't have before we made our first album and so I think we just kind of fell into a rhythm and started writing about things that were far more relevant to us at that stage in our life and then we walked into Hollywood records with this guy john lynde who's recently passed so rest and peace, John Lynn, but a brilliant A &R guy actually co -wrote Boogie Wonderland.

[657] It's his claim to fame.

[658] How's that one go?

[659] We don't know that.

[660] Oh, yeah, we know that.

[661] Boogie Wonderland.

[662] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[663] Yeah, yeah.

[664] Okay.

[665] So we walk into his office and we say, here's the album we want to make and expecting him to just say, no, you're going to do exactly what we want you to do.

[666] And he empowered us and was like, absolutely, and who do you want to produce it?

[667] We're shocked when he said, John Fields.

[668] He produced Switchfoot's album, Beautiful Letdown, which we were obsessed with.

[669] And he said, well, let's call him right now.

[670] And so he calls John Fields.

[671] And all of this happened very quick.

[672] Within two weeks, we were in the studio with John Fields.

[673] Wow.

[674] And we made the album in two weeks.

[675] And then we put it up six months later.

[676] Joe mentioned Disney was sort of like dating us.

[677] They turned it on, basically, once we were a part of the family.

[678] And that was the camp rocks and the other opportunities they gave us.

[679] They fired up the machine.

[680] Yeah, they turned it on.

[681] Which they're very good at.

[682] Jet engines.

[683] And then from there, it was just sort of like a rocket ship.

[684] And what's everyone's age at that moment?

[685] 14.

[686] So 14, 16, and 18, 19, yeah.

[687] Wow.

[688] Okay, great.

[689] So now we're in a sweet spot.

[690] So you at 14, this is great.

[691] Yeah, the best part about all of this is that we were expecting to be told, here's the playbook, here's how we do it.

[692] And they really did empower us to kind of do what we wanted to do in our music.

[693] You know, the Disney projects, Camp Rock and the TV show, obviously, that's their thing.

[694] Yeah.

[695] Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

[696] We've all been there.

[697] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[698] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[699] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when, and an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[700] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[701] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[702] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[703] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[704] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[705] What's up guys, this is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[706] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[707] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[708] And I don't mean just friends.

[709] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[710] The list goes on.

[711] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[712] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[713] So 14, there's no question.

[714] You're stoked.

[715] Now, Kevin, you're 18.

[716] Yeah.

[717] We just moved to L .A. All I wanted was my own car.

[718] Ah, yes.

[719] And what did you get?

[720] And your own place.

[721] And my own place.

[722] And that was like, that was a sense of, like, drama.

[723] But you went about it the wrong way.

[724] Ooh.

[725] By saying I wanted.

[726] No. My own place.

[727] No, I did.

[728] I went about it the wrong way.

[729] I was dumb.

[730] They gave you a living allowance to be in a certain area for a certain amount of time.

[731] Well, we have my mom, my dad.

[732] Frankie, our youngest, Franklin, our youngest brother as well.

[733] The three of us, plus some other family friends, all moving to Los Angeles.

[734] Other family friends just jumping on board.

[735] The hell?

[736] They're like, I'm going to.

[737] Yeah.

[738] We just, we rolled deep.

[739] Is this ring of the Beverly Hillbillies a little bit?

[740] Definitely.

[741] How that was.

[742] Very modest living allowance that we had to split amongst the whole family.

[743] 20, 30 people.

[744] And so if I took one third of that.

[745] Which you felt entitled to.

[746] You're one third of the band.

[747] I'm 17, 18 years old and not understand the gravitas of what that really means.

[748] Yes.

[749] And did go about it the wrong way.

[750] I would have done the same thing.

[751] But what I'm curious most about is your ego at that time at 18.

[752] Again, for Nikki's 14.

[753] This is radical, and the two dudes in his band are older and cool.

[754] You're 18, are you struggling with like, I'm in a band with a 14 -year -old?

[755] Definitely not.

[756] I never struggled with that.

[757] It was that I wanted to make some independent decisions, but I had to live life at a 14 -year -old level, I felt like.

[758] Everyone was equal.

[759] You had to go as slow as the slowest member.

[760] But they were not equal to Nick being an 18 -year -old.

[761] Does that make sense?

[762] At that time, it definitely shifted quickly.

[763] Kevin got the short straw because he, like most firstborns, had to go through some of these big conversations and life experiences.

[764] And just to back it up further, it's like our upbringing was so rooted in conservative Christian values that as our parents went on their own journey, which if they were here, they would speak to, with religion and faith and sort of deconstruction, I hate to use that word.

[765] I know it's very zeitgeisty right now, but it is a little bit of that.

[766] And discovery of oneself, I think that even they were sort of wrestling with a lot.

[767] You're so hot.

[768] Is that happening to you?

[769] Oh, my God.

[770] They all are.

[771] They all are so hot.

[772] But I'm now listening to this young gentleman talk, and I'm like, yeah, Sky.

[773] Dex, that's rude what you just did.

[774] No, I'm going to say they're hot as well.

[775] You can't have three attracted.

[776] Wait, no, no, no, no. You made it weird.

[777] You made it weird.

[778] No, you don't know that I don't think those two are hot, but you just made it now that it was a zero -sum game.

[779] What I'm saying is, I met Priyanka recently.

[780] Yeah, we did.

[781] And she described him as an old soul when his friends are older and it doesn't feel like she's with a dude 10 years younger.

[782] And I'm now listening to him and I'm really having a ding, ding, ding moment where I'm like, I get what she's saying.

[783] But you see much older than 30.

[784] And so when you asked about, like, being in a band with a 14 -year -old, it never felt like I was.

[785] There you go.

[786] He was an equal at what an 18 -year -old thinks an equal is, right?

[787] Sure, sure.

[788] Always, no matter what.

[789] Yeah.

[790] But I do think you stumbled probably into something that you guys have been dealing with since day one, all of you individually.

[791] Yeah, which is people doing that.

[792] Like, oh, this person's my crush.

[793] Is that so weird when it's your brunt?

[794] Like, wouldn't that be so weird for you?

[795] I'm going to say something that's going to sound highly controversial.

[796] But I think we can get real Is that on one hand, yes, it is extremely weird Sort of being an idol or, you know, sex symbol Is a strange thing But it's also on the flip side And this is the part that might not be as controversial As I set it up Is that it's also a business And we kind of know that to a certain degree Right And so when it was like, I'm a Joe girl It's not like, oh, I'm hurt I'm going to go cry No, we're going to go sell a shirt that says I love Joe Yeah, go sell that stuff Yeah, yeah, yeah Get as hot as you can, Joe Yeah It's getting hotter.

[797] Lift more weights.

[798] Yes, the rising tide lift all three ships.

[799] Totally.

[800] But egos, you can just like totally.

[801] See, I actually think it's a two -sided coin.

[802] I see what you're saying.

[803] In one way, you're in another band with two other guys, and people are popping in different ways at different times.

[804] And they're not family members.

[805] I think it's actually easier to hate those people and to be jealous of those people.

[806] I do think the silver lining is there's a blood bond that's going to be a glue that other successful bands don't even have to fall back on.

[807] Sure.

[808] Because all this is going to happen.

[809] You put any three human beings together, whether they're related or not, and there's going to be people comparing everyone among the three.

[810] That's just inevitable.

[811] We always say we want someone with the last name, Jonas, to win.

[812] That's our goal.

[813] I mean, most recently, and we've never talked about this publicly, so I'm going to say it here.

[814] But we both auditioned for the same role, Joe and I, was for Wicked, actually.

[815] Oh, really?

[816] And we were, like, going into it.

[817] And naturally, you know, we're brothers, we're competitive.

[818] in sports and other things.

[819] But when it comes to our career, I think we genuinely both looked each other.

[820] We said, like, go in there and kill it.

[821] Because it's got to be one of us.

[822] It has to be one of us.

[823] Yeah, that being said, never got that call.

[824] But I think maybe it's something they're going to shoot in post production or something.

[825] Sure, sure.

[826] They'll circle back.

[827] I think you can have all of it.

[828] We were just interviewing Jake Jelenhall, and he was talking about his sister, Maggie.

[829] At times, he's getting nominated for everything.

[830] And at times, she's getting nominated for everything.

[831] And he said it's both things.

[832] I'm watching the award show I'm fucking rooting for her And I'm jealous I felt some of that When they were doing their solo projects When we were out I was definitely like I am so happy that it's happening For one of us But I wish it was the three of us Right That seems natural I feel that balance Totally get it Yes Yeah I think it would be weird And honestly I think it would be dishonest If you came in and acted like Everything's fine There's absolutely nothing No competition For sure I remember and I don't even know if you know this.

[833] Some more tea that hasn't been spilled.

[834] Oh my gosh.

[835] Exclusive after exclusive.

[836] And it was at the most picturesque setting.

[837] It was at the Flewwood Mac show in MSG.

[838] And as they're playing landslide, I found out that he was going to be a judge on the voice.

[839] And I was so jealous.

[840] I cried my eyes out.

[841] Oh, wonderful.

[842] But it was landslide.

[843] Oh, yeah.

[844] How could you not cry?

[845] So bittersweet probably.

[846] I was, of course, because I'm like, I'm super happy for him.

[847] But I'm also like bummed because I'm, what that fucking game?

[848] You wanted it.

[849] Yes.

[850] You know, so a little context for this.

[851] Joe did the voice.

[852] He was one of the judges in Australia.

[853] So he was like, I just enjoyed the job.

[854] So I was like, I should do it here.

[855] I can see it.

[856] But he crushed it.

[857] I've been doing the voice out in these streets.

[858] It was great.

[859] Yeah.

[860] Well, because I feel like it'd be worse if it's your family.

[861] Better and worse, like you said.

[862] But the worst part is like, that guy, I know what his farts smell like.

[863] Oh, okay.

[864] Especially the fandom with girls, because you shouldn't even say women.

[865] now women, but girls at the time.

[866] Some women.

[867] That was weird.

[868] Yeah, right.

[869] Yes, exactly.

[870] True.

[871] Women can be disgusting, too, guys.

[872] This just in.

[873] Women are scumbags, too.

[874] That seems to be your party line lately.

[875] Everyone is forgotten.

[876] That's why.

[877] Anyway, you know your siblings.

[878] You've been under the hood.

[879] Yeah.

[880] But isn't it awful when you hate that someone's winning, you're jealous, super envious, and then you meet the person or you spend time with them, you're like, damn it, they're so.

[881] They're so great.

[882] They're such a good person.

[883] Unbelievable cool.

[884] Just be a little mean, please.

[885] Yeah, totally.

[886] A little rude.

[887] I'll say the one I had it with.

[888] I think like two movies in a row, they hired James Marsden over me. And I found myself beginning to hate him.

[889] In fact, Chris and I were on our way to eat dinner somewhere.

[890] On the car ride, I was like, I don't know.

[891] I don't get it with this.

[892] Everyone's obsessed with James Marlowe.

[893] We pull up to the restaurant and he's waiting for his car for valet, the same restaurant.

[894] Of course.

[895] And he immediately was like, hey!

[896] Dex and Kristen, what's up?

[897] And he was insanely charismatic and sparkly and friendly.

[898] And I was like, yeah, I'd hire that guy over me too.

[899] This guy's incredible.

[900] I totally get it.

[901] Yes, I see it.

[902] Oh, my, I can't be mad at this.

[903] This guy's great.

[904] Okay, but the ride we go on between 2005 and...

[905] Until when the band broke up, basically.

[906] Which was 13, yeah?

[907] 13, yeah.

[908] It was a pretty wild run.

[909] It was like a rocket ship.

[910] There was things we watched back and I don't even remember.

[911] I don't remember being there, full blackout.

[912] Because it was all happening so fast.

[913] Not because Kevin was blacked out the entire time.

[914] But it's like, no, that's not true.

[915] So many moments where we just would go, go, go, go, go, go.

[916] And then hence kind of why we would end up at eventually breaking up as a band.

[917] It's because we just burn ourselves into the ground, but also finding who we are as individuals, probably playing ketchup with Kev, where he was at 18, where it's like, I want to be alone and I want to do my own thing, I have my own friends, I want to make my own music, I want to have my own career.

[918] Well, I would imagine the blessing and the curse of all this was that is the age that you are supposed to claim your identity.

[919] You know, between 18 and 30, you're like...

[920] Those kids are at college or university or traveling the world, taking a year abroad and like discovering who they are sexually and odd jobs.

[921] For us, we're just like every single day in each other's shit.

[922] In another city, in another hotel.

[923] And have to be very wholesome, like present very wholesome.

[924] A little of that was just being a part of Disney at the time.

[925] It was quite interesting because it was like a tug of war.

[926] Here we are young adults.

[927] But at some point we're on a Disney show and we're like shaving at 3 p .m. Because our 5 o 'clock shadows popping in.

[928] And you don't look like you're in 10th grade anymore.

[929] But also we're making this music that we want essentially to be taken seriously.

[930] Now we look back on it and we're so obviously grateful for the amazing years that we had.

[931] But I think at the moment when we were in it, we were frustrated because we're like we can't just be ourselves.

[932] This is a very normal trajectory for everyone on Disney.

[933] I've interviewed a bunch of people that started on Disney and then became stars in their own right.

[934] And yes, there's this period of reclaiming your identity, which is also your adulthood, your sexuality, and you feel like you have to really break out of that Disney mold that you were in.

[935] But back to the blessing and the curse.

[936] The curse is you are trying to discover your own identity, yet you're sharing one, which is an interesting dynamic.

[937] I think that's how I was feeling in those moments.

[938] Every decision was not just my decision.

[939] And honestly, probably saved my life more times than I realized.

[940] Looking back, if I made the decision that I was going to make for myself in those moments, I don't know if I would be in this chair today.

[941] That's the point I was about to make, is the blessing is if you three were in a band with strangers, you had been put together by some promoter, you would be able to try on an identity that no one else would call you out for.

[942] Whereas I imagine the three of you policed each other, when one of you would start feeling very rock.

[943] starry another one would be like what the fuck are you talking about the family aspects came into play and we've been asked before like so what's the secret sauce like why are you guys so normal or whatever was it parenting who's talking to you like this by the way it's from hog hill so it's naturally like we don't really know what it was but we had each other to your point if we were in a band like i don't envy any of the young acts that are coming up in this day and age where there's so many different social platforms for us we had like my space and we had 100 followers and we're like we can make it.

[944] You know, we can retire.

[945] But, like, we don't have the same pressures.

[946] But even when we had other bands that we'd share the stage with, majority of them were put together or they were found.

[947] And, you know, you think about it.

[948] And, like, at the end of the day, we could say, like, dude, don't know if I can say that.

[949] Or don't do that.

[950] Or, like, what are those pants?

[951] Yeah, literally.

[952] Really, you think you're pulling off those pants?

[953] Yeah.

[954] Like, that little bit.

[955] We could, like, check each other.

[956] Yes.

[957] I find that to be a real blessing.

[958] Absolutely.

[959] But, of course, at some point, suffocating.

[960] Absolutely.

[961] Like, you hear from both sides, right?

[962] You know what?

[963] I kind of want to make my own mistakes.

[964] So screw you.

[965] I want a new identity that no one's going to call me out on.

[966] Let me fucking be a peacock for a minute.

[967] Let me just see if I'm right or wrong.

[968] I think there was a real history with new friends of ours because we were so insulated with the same group of friends and the team for so long.

[969] So our manager, our guitar player, basis, same guys from when we first started.

[970] And they're still working with us today.

[971] When new people would come to the mix, a lot of times we would sense it was their mission to help us create our new identity.

[972] Like, I know you separate to this and you can be this.

[973] person with these new people.

[974] And it was always like red flags would go up.

[975] And it happened in all of our friend groups.

[976] And I think the brilliant thing is we were able to like spot it and not put the pressure to be like, you should friend break up with that person.

[977] But just say it'll run its course and we'll see where it ends up.

[978] Ten times out of ten, it was like, we'd find our way back to this is who I am.

[979] Were you in that cliche scene of every 80s, 90s movie about a band where it's like, people are coming up to me like, so you're the star of this thing?

[980] Because it's been the same team forever, no. No. And I'm saying the new friends like the new entries you know new friends or new relationships you can start to feel when there's a sort of outside influence of information and thoughts and listen that's part of everybody's journey when you're in a band is that your nuclear set of people your group is going to be your biggest fan but you have to like find a way to shift it to like hey this is my family yeah they're gonna be here long after you yeah let's get that part straight yeah okay so now we got to fast forward to the breakup you know you come by it honestly almost every great band broke up it's so hard and listen this is self -indulgent but this was said to monica and i one time and it was great we were in a fight about this thing no this show oh not this chair we are also in a fight about this chair but no this was a few years ago fight about the show we have a lot of fights and we produce a show with a therapist this wonderful wendy mogul she's a child therapist she's isn't here shooting the shit before she records her show and she stumbles upon that we're in a fight and she looked at us and she said you two are in the Beatles whatever's happening works do not be so stupid and break up the Beatles and we both really heard that yeah right and it sounds like arrogant to tell you that story but I'm just saying not at all no I get crazy analogy but what she meant is don't let these little differences it's cliche you know it's gonna have you like just you're in the Beatles be happier in the Beatles that has been marching orders for the last four years like anytime we're power struggling, I'm like, but I'm in this because she's who I'm power struggling with.

[981] I'm in the Beatles and I want to stay in the Beatles and whatever else.

[982] I love that.

[983] Yeah, but it's hard.

[984] It's very hard to share credit, to share attention, to share all these things, to evaluate who's contributing, what?

[985] It's stressful.

[986] And it's very rare that people stay together.

[987] But I'm just curious, was there an inciting incident?

[988] I know that you guys canceled like 30 dates or something in 2013.

[989] And then it made an announcement that there had been a deep rift.

[990] And was there an incident that happened or just you guys finally were like exhausted from touring and performing and doing all the things?

[991] I think it was a long time coming.

[992] I mean, so basically what started to happen is after our third album, I guess, called Lines, Minds, and Trying Times, it came out.

[993] It did very well in its first week.

[994] And like most sort of acts that have rabid teenage fans, it then completely dropped off.

[995] Like a horror movie.

[996] Yeah.

[997] It's like it goes straight up.

[998] Opens enormous and then no one goes second.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] And so I think we started to feel like, okay, we have to diversify the fan base and start to stretch ourselves.

[1001] It felt like it had run its course.

[1002] A little bit.

[1003] Because, you know, naturally, people grow out of the things that they liked when they were teenagers and then find their way back to it when they're more settled in their own skin, which is where we are now, which is that our fans grew up with us and we're seeing that the fans who came with our parents, the parents are still coming, but they're coming with their kid and their grandchild, which is like a magical, it's such a cool dynamic.

[1004] But that wasn't happening then, and we weren't evolving musically or creatively.

[1005] We were basically, instead of acknowledging that the music we were making wasn't very good because we felt like if we went to the biggest and best producers, they would have said, I'm not going to work with the Jonas Brothers.

[1006] It's not so hot right now.

[1007] We didn't want to hear that reality.

[1008] So we just kept hermitting.

[1009] And then in turn, like kind of crippled to create a process and then started to resent each other for not making more of an effort or for taking it too seriously.

[1010] And it just sort of compounded to where there was no fight, like a big end of the world fight.

[1011] There wasn't a bad Thanksgiving or anything.

[1012] No, it was just like becoming functionally toxic.

[1013] And it was not the vibe for any of us.

[1014] Sounds like it was mutual?

[1015] Nick, Nick sat us down.

[1016] Nick brought it up and sat down and said, hey, this is where I'm at.

[1017] And we were like, I don't think we should keep doing this.

[1018] Joking?

[1019] And then he was like, no, I'm being serious.

[1020] I kind of want to do my own thing.

[1021] And we can all agree.

[1022] It's kind of run its course.

[1023] And we're like, really?

[1024] Okay.

[1025] Uh -huh.

[1026] But then after therapy and time off from the band, it was the best decision we could have made because we are all able to kind of start this venture of doing things individually.

[1027] You know, Joe did DNC, which had.

[1028] tremendous success.

[1029] I was doing solo stuff and exactly.

[1030] The first one he knew.

[1031] That's right.

[1032] That's right.

[1033] That's right.

[1034] That's right.

[1035] That's right.

[1036] But I think that having success outside of the group made that name somewhat palatable again to people.

[1037] And then it opened up real doors for us individually during a four or five year period to where when we came back together, it was cool again.

[1038] Now you were a super group.

[1039] Now it's like blind faith company.

[1040] It's like independently successful.

[1041] Everyone's coming back together.

[1042] It was so fun to watch it from the out.

[1043] side to me not doing a solo project, but then like being on stage for the first time again in 2019 and watching me and Joe take a break, Nick singing his solo stuff while we're doing a Jonas Brothers show.

[1044] Then Joe goes up and does some of that and then we come back together and now playing each other songs.

[1045] It's like so dynamic, so cool and also like a true testament to where we are.

[1046] Is it fair to say?

[1047] I think a lot of times as frustration builds in gratitude is harder to grasp, stepping away from something so often is really helpful.

[1048] And, recognizing how special something was, I think getting nostalgic for something's very powerful and fuel for creativity.

[1049] I can imagine at least being very frustrated, having the decompression phase, and then acceptance, like go through the seven stages of grief or whatever it is, you land at acceptance and then maybe through that lens, you're like, boy, that was a special fucking thing we had.

[1050] Who gets to do that?

[1051] I hate to sound a certain way, but we have a lot of pinch me. I'm a Jonas Brother moments.

[1052] I was like, this is so cool.

[1053] To Kevin's point, I get to watch these two guys who are brilliant in their own right do their thing, and I'm thrilled to be a part of that.

[1054] There was a time where we genuinely thought it was never going to happen again to look at it now through this lens.

[1055] It's just wild.

[1056] Well, okay, and so I'm going to own my ignorance.

[1057] I think now is the time I tell you this.

[1058] You guys hold a very, very, very funny and significant role in my household.

[1059] Really?

[1060] Which is you three are the first people my two daughters became obsessed with, which is a really, fun and unique thing to watch.

[1061] How old are they now?

[1062] Eight and ten.

[1063] Oh, wow.

[1064] And this started about four or five years ago.

[1065] I think it got set up perfectly in that.

[1066] I think they were consuming like camp rock and stuff.

[1067] This is when Disney Plus came around.

[1068] Yes.

[1069] Disney Plus introduced a whole new generation to our stuff.

[1070] My kids now are like, whoa, what is this, Dad?

[1071] Yes.

[1072] So I think they watched that.

[1073] And then right on top of that, you guys get back together and release Sucker.

[1074] So they were constantly telling me how great you guys were.

[1075] And my joke around the house has always been, first time they brought it up i go hon you know the fucking jonas brothers wish they were me do you realize that like they wrote motorcycles like me and fucking not guys out like the jonas brothers wish they were me so the Jonas brothers wish they were me became the sane in the house for about two and a half years we're not to the punchline the littlest one is not a daredevil the older one is the little one is very very cautious three years ago we're in nashville we're at a buddy's house i'm pushing her on a swing and she's pretty high up and right at the height of her on the the swing, she bailed.

[1076] And she just went flying through the air.

[1077] Oh, no. And landed in the grass with a thud.

[1078] Oh, my God.

[1079] And I panicked.

[1080] I was like, she's going to have broken bones.

[1081] I run over to her and I go, oh my God, Delta, are you okay?

[1082] And she looks up at me. She's got dirt on her knees.

[1083] And she goes, Jonas Brothers wish they were me. Yes.

[1084] Oh, my God.

[1085] I've never laughed harder in my life.

[1086] The whole thing was a setup for her to say Jonas Brothers wish they were me. Put that on a shirt.

[1087] I know it was so good.

[1088] That is so cool.

[1089] Okay, so that's kind of my experience with you guys.

[1090] And then I know of you, of course, and I fucking love the last album as everyone in America did.

[1091] But then I was reading today, I didn't realize that was a comeback album.

[1092] And then when I view it in that context and it's being described as perhaps the biggest comeback in a decade, I'm like, it sure as fuck was what were your expectations returning and making that album happiness did you have a sense that this was going to happen i mean it had to have performed 10x of your expectations definitely i remember calling these guys it was just when it was bubbling that we were going to come back together i'm like i think people are really excited and it was just even this like internally starting to accept that we did a documentary originally we shot this documentary to be like look at all this nostalgic years we sat together in mammoth california and watched old videos and we all had different reactions and then our manager was like we got to film this this this is really interesting some of you are loving this some of you are hating this you guys are getting into bickering arguments about that or this let's just remember you differently let's just honor the years that we did this together you guys have a special bond as brothers unlike if we were like put together you just go walk your separate ways and oh yeah we text here and there or every christmas it's like we actually are still close so during that process and to just quickly catch you up like i remember we were shooting in cuba and it was last to be like down to do it again.

[1093] It was like, D &C was doing its thing, and I'm like, I'm good.

[1094] I finally doing something for myself.

[1095] I'm having so much fun.

[1096] Why do I want to go back to this trauma?

[1097] It took me that many years to get to where I'm at now.

[1098] And we're like, cool now, so why go back to that?

[1099] Why disrupt?

[1100] I risk it again.

[1101] Even after talking about the idea and mending some of those wounds, going back to just literally singing acoustically and this stairwell in Cuba, I'll never forget.

[1102] And we just started playing a song and we were like having to remember some of the words.

[1103] Oh, I was remembering the words and it was coming back the feeling of harmonizing with each other i was like fuck i like really missed this and i didn't tell them because it was like so it was like anyway fast forward walking around made the album kevin saying do you think anyone's going to care and then cut to like you know our biggest tour to date and the biggest album today one point two million tickets sold it's crazy we are just so grateful that we did it again and having had it lost it even though by your own decision, then getting it back, this go -round, do you feel like you have some kind of permanent maturity about it?

[1104] 100%.

[1105] I think that mentality that we used to feel like everything could be taken away at any moment, all that, again, early childhood church trauma that we felt like, oh, if we fuck up once, if you mess up this vocal, or if you forget a vocal at a performance, or if, you say the wrong thing in an interview, it's like, that could be the thing that sets it off, which is just bizarre thinking in general.

[1106] and we've came back into it looking at it like we get to do this every day and I know that's like cliche to say pinch me moment like Nick said earlier but I get to do what I love for a living and I still get to do this with guys that I enjoy this with like let's just have a lot more fun and we also are you know like meeting each other at the same place in our life that's never been the case one guy's getting off of the yacht the other guys putting his kids to bed it's like it's just different places in our lives and now it's like we're all fathers and you know married and able to relate a lot more This just reminded me when you were saying, forgetting the words, did you feel like when you forgot the words, oh, I can't do this without them?

[1107] Clearly, they were the piece.

[1108] Now I'm by myself and now I can't remember any words.

[1109] I can't do this.

[1110] There were certain things that were missing from my solo stuff.

[1111] So I thankfully had performances that did go well.

[1112] Of course.

[1113] I'm not saying you'd be right about thinking that, but I could imagine that.

[1114] There was certainly times where I would look to the left and write me like, I'm not feeling the momentum in the way that I did when performing with them and I'm not feeling the magic.

[1115] And because I was the one that sort of initiated the conversation of breaking things up, I was kind of like, I can't really say that out loud.

[1116] But the door did open up, and I think once that conversation began, it was like baby steps.

[1117] What if we just did the doc?

[1118] And then what if we did one song?

[1119] And then eventually it became a full album and a full sort of comeback.

[1120] But yeah, there was moments of real self -doubt.

[1121] There's confidence in community, you know, when we have each other.

[1122] Of course.

[1123] I was going to say, when you're younger, sharing the experience is actually a negative.

[1124] You kind of want it all to yourself.

[1125] And as you get older, you're like, oh, what on earth is the point of doing anything?

[1126] If I haven't shared it with somebody, I can reflect back on it with and all that.

[1127] It's actually pointless if I can't share it with somebody.

[1128] I totally agree.

[1129] And I think that, you know, all of us finding our partners makes a lot of sense that it happened, at least for Joe and I, Kevin, sort of during that first chapter of the Jonas Brothers.

[1130] But Joe and I, during that time apart, so cliche.

[1131] But finding herself and then finding someone that you can share that with is so crucial.

[1132] And I think that there's real health for us in saying, okay, we have these amazing experiences together.

[1133] and obviously we're family, but what's more valuable is that we really invest in the time at home with our other halves and our children to have something to give in the work.

[1134] Otherwise, it's all one thing.

[1135] Well, don't you think that just all of you being dads now?

[1136] For me, at least, dad rightly got elevated above all other identities I have.

[1137] Number one, dad, and that's the only one you can't take from me. And that gives me some internal confidence that I really can't imagine I would have gotten without it.

[1138] There's a permanent identity I have.

[1139] have.

[1140] So all the other ones that can be taken from me, I'm not as afraid of them being taken because I'll have the one I want the most.

[1141] I love it.

[1142] That's beautiful.

[1143] For me, being a parent, just is such an amazing reward and also like challenge at times.

[1144] You want to get back as fast as possible.

[1145] And it changes your dynamic of what it's like being on the road for sure.

[1146] You used to be like, wow, I'm in this amazing city.

[1147] I'll just take a couple days and hang out.

[1148] Sure, sure.

[1149] I like that burger place.

[1150] I think I'll stick around and eat there again.

[1151] I never look forward to red eyes, but now I'm like, well, fuck, yeah, I'm going to get on that red eye.

[1152] I want to get there in the morning.

[1153] How old are your kids coming?

[1154] They are nine and six.

[1155] I think that actually helped me though when we did break up.

[1156] Danielle was pregnant.

[1157] She was seven months pregnant with our first when the band broke up.

[1158] So I kind of shifted directly into that identity.

[1159] So I think I lost some of the negative in it all because I was just like, this is a great place for me to be anyway.

[1160] I think it was a gift now looking back.

[1161] Yeah, because you saw your kids walk for the first time.

[1162] Totally.

[1163] I was there.

[1164] I was present.

[1165] I wasn't flying around.

[1166] And now, of course, I'm missing.

[1167] recorder recitals.

[1168] Oh, well, that's a blessing.

[1169] Yes.

[1170] If they play like my kids play the recorder, my God.

[1171] What is the recorder?

[1172] Anyway, let's be real.

[1173] Like, what the hell?

[1174] I did that.

[1175] It's so interesting, though, because she was getting so upset about everything and she looked at me and she's like, Dad, I don't understand this.

[1176] I'm going to fail this because I can't read the notes.

[1177] And I'm like, tell your teacher that your dad who makes a living with music cannot read music either.

[1178] Yes, yes, yes.

[1179] If this becomes an issue, just tell her that your dad can't read music either.

[1180] As most rock stars cannot.

[1181] Okay.

[1182] So why four -year between happiness and now the album.

[1183] Yeah, we started making new music right away after Happiness Begins came out and we're really excited about what we were doing, but then started to feel like it wasn't right.

[1184] That coincided with COVID hitting and shutting the world down.

[1185] And we all live on other sides of the earth.

[1186] So it felt like...

[1187] So it was just kind of natural that we weren't really making music because we couldn't.

[1188] We all started to pour our creative efforts into other places.

[1189] So I started writing screenplays and developing TV shows and film and Kevin was also developing.

[1190] Also, you were spectacular on Kingdom.

[1191] I love that show, yeah.

[1192] Matt Loria, you know, well then.

[1193] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1194] Tucker is the best.

[1195] And then you're working with Larry Trilling right now, who's like my very favorite human being of land of earth.

[1196] So, yeah, that sort of became the focus.

[1197] And then basically it was about a year and a half ago that we said, okay, let's get back in the studio.

[1198] Let's start working.

[1199] And what do we want to accomplish?

[1200] Really quick, were you intimidated by the success of the previous album?

[1201] Because I think that could be a little bit of resting.

[1202] Like, we captured lightning in a bottle.

[1203] We're not going to be able to do that again.

[1204] I personally felt that way.

[1205] I mean, we released like two singles since that album.

[1206] Didn't have the same reaction.

[1207] Didn't have the same immediate reaction.

[1208] Yeah.

[1209] I mean, but I think it did feel like there was this Megatron that we were looking at that.

[1210] We saw it right over our shoulder and we're like, dope.

[1211] So we're going to build that again?

[1212] I don't think that's going to be that easiest thing.

[1213] Yeah.

[1214] And so it's just like, let's just take our sweet time and figure it out.

[1215] It wasn't supposed to be that long, which is quite funny.

[1216] But it feels like a comeback album again.

[1217] Uh -huh.

[1218] But it was just like COVID put everything into like, you know, this crazy.

[1219] time warp for everyone in their own way for us musically was like let's actually this take this time to find new inspiration well there's a saying i've heard a bunch for musicians which is like your first album you've been writing your whole life if your first album's at 20 years old you've been writing that album for 20 years it comes out to an enormous hit and then they go we would like another album in a year you know like that album was 20 years of my life and now in the next year of my life has to result in something like that so i think there's something about you gotta live some life harnessing some of your life you know like that to make something profound.

[1220] Yeah, and I think we drew so much inspiration from romance and dating and stuff and long before our very serious relationships now and our marriages.

[1221] And so I think this time to actually live some life settle into this experience now has allowed a lot of mining to happen from brotherhood, a topic we've never talked about in our music, fatherhood, obviously, and then our relationships, but through a lens of real commitment over real time and what that looks like, there are really good moments and really tough moments you have to work through And we were talking to someone recently about this theory that happy people can't make good music.

[1222] It was like what they were trying to say.

[1223] That you have to be sort of dark.

[1224] That's a comedian fallacy too.

[1225] Yeah.

[1226] And it's just not true.

[1227] We had to sort of find a way to articulate that in our own way.

[1228] And for us, that's been speaking about our real lives.

[1229] And we live very public lives, but try to have our privacy and quiet time.

[1230] But providing that little window for people to see into it and hopefully relate or connect with what we're talking about.

[1231] And also just enjoy it.

[1232] I mean, that's the goal at the end of the day.

[1233] And we also had to wait for AI to catch up so you can write our entire album.

[1234] Yeah, chat GPT, you guys are using that idea.

[1235] It's sick, yeah.

[1236] It's really been.

[1237] No vocals recorded for this next week.

[1238] Oh, that's wonderful news.

[1239] So you guys can just kind of hang separately.

[1240] Well, how do you think this interview happened?

[1241] It's all written.

[1242] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1243] Chat GPT, questions for the Zerneruth brothers?

[1244] They predicted it exactly thus far.

[1245] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[1246] If you dare.

[1247] So this new album, the album, which I have listened to half of it, which they sent me right out of the gates miracle for me is number one what a fucking song not surprised it's bg's inspired did you guys watch that documentary i was actually in it you're the second person i've done this too yeah yeah i forget that's incredible i was i was in it i was in it like did you see it really is a real question no it's only in it for like two minutes can i just be completely transparent i thought i was in it too oh no i sat here and i was like I was in it, but I was in a different one.

[1248] I was in the queen one.

[1249] Oh, that's a great, great, too.

[1250] But I was also like, it was kind of around the same, both in this around the same time.

[1251] So, Kevin's in the Fleetwood Mac one.

[1252] So everyone got there somewhere.

[1253] We all got a dokey series.

[1254] I love the Bee Gees.

[1255] I had no issue about loving them.

[1256] But I didn't even know they had a phase before the disco version and the falsetto version.

[1257] And what a ride they went on and redefining themselves.

[1258] They were like, out with the count.

[1259] I mean, and then obviously had the biggest album of all time, biggest soundtrack.

[1260] But yeah, that's a pretty.

[1261] wild ride that they went on.

[1262] So inspiring.

[1263] We actually have had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Mary Gibb a couple times.

[1264] He just, this was like back in 08.

[1265] He showed up backstage in Miami, brought his family to the show, and he just sort of wandered into our band's dressing room and was like, you guys, the band.

[1266] And they were like, yes, sir, Mr. Gibb, and he went and sat down and just talked to him for two hours.

[1267] Cool.

[1268] Did he look like an angel?

[1269] Like, did he have the glory?

[1270] The halo.

[1271] Very angelic.

[1272] You know, and it's unbelievable.

[1273] But this was the kind of thing that would happen a lot because like these icons that we grew up listening to that our dad raised us on would bring their families to shows but because they know everybody at these venues they've been doing it for 30 40 years they're just like hey sal give me a pass i'm just go sit and catering and so this one day our dad walks into catering and it's paul simon just hanging out oh my god eating alone eating alone he's like mr jonas you want to sit with me and talk and they just sat and talked and then he's like i'm making this album about religion can you come to my studio next week so then our dad we're like hey where you at he's like i'll let you know later he was just at paul simon I'm in studio, home studio getting on -release music played for him.

[1274] I'm like, what?

[1275] But anyways, BG's inspired that track, Miracle.

[1276] But you know what?

[1277] I got to add in there.

[1278] It's not a part of your current description, but lyrically, vocally, yeah, I see the BG's inspiration, but musically very Jumeriqui vibes.

[1279] Oh, yeah.

[1280] Yeah.

[1281] Oh, yeah.

[1282] There's a lot of early disco funk inspirations as well, which I mean, Jamiroquai, I love that reference.

[1283] I don't want you guys to admit you've done MDMA, but if you ever did do MDMA, Jamiroi is a great.

[1284] companion piece to that and then now I'm going to argue so is miracle so if for anyone who's an enthusiast I think it would pair nicely I think to Miriqui correct me wrong I think he refuses to tour on the stage oh do we know why I don't know why no I think it's like a cause related thing I don't know for sure but I'm pretty sure there's a reason yeah something's an outstanding warrant oh I'll look into it all that just tell people it's a yeah political the bounty hunter's out for Yeah, you're right.

[1285] If you are going to do MDMA and listen to Jonas Brothers.

[1286] Well, I'm not because I'm sober.

[1287] No, but I'm saying if you, the general you, who you've instructed to do this.

[1288] No, I haven't.

[1289] I don't want anyone to do it.

[1290] But what I'm telling you is this would be a great fucking companion piece to cement MDMA.

[1291] That's what I'm saying.

[1292] I'm saying don't do it.

[1293] Also, you couldn't find a better song on MDMA than Miracle.

[1294] Wow.

[1295] I don't know how to.

[1296] I'll just be very clear.

[1297] I was going to say test your drugs first.

[1298] For fentanyl.

[1299] Before you do this, plan that you're not supposed to do.

[1300] become a public service.

[1301] But I need to know more about the producer you worked with.

[1302] John Bellion is an East Coast guy.

[1303] He's from Long Island.

[1304] He's an artist in his own right.

[1305] He's brilliant.

[1306] He's got a really passionate fan base.

[1307] He speaks about things through a really unique lens.

[1308] And as a songwriter, I've always been such a huge fan.

[1309] And he's had a run of smashes over the last couple years with Bieber and Eminem, Rihanna, a bunch of big hits.

[1310] Big old hit maker that guy.

[1311] We've never worked with him.

[1312] So we were eager to.

[1313] And one of our collaborators and very close friends, Steph Johnson, was like, why don't we set it up?

[1314] So we had dinner one night and then COVID happened and it was a couple years of, again, not connecting.

[1315] And then our manager calls us and said, okay, I've spoken to John Bellion.

[1316] He's definitely down to meet up and hang, wants to make sure the vibe's right.

[1317] And for us, you know, we're pretty used to just like getting in a room, writing a song, and that's the thing.

[1318] That's the day.

[1319] It's weird to like meet up beforehand.

[1320] He's saying like, he's got to check us out if we're cool enough.

[1321] But basically he comes to my house in LA, the brothers fly out.

[1322] And I'm so glad we did it.

[1323] We had the absolute best time just talking and getting to know each other.

[1324] And then after a few hours of just hanging out, he was like, what do you guys want to do next?

[1325] And so we told him we want to lean into BG's, the Eagles, like the 70s kind of sound.

[1326] Even Doobie Brothers.

[1327] Yeah, Doobie Brothers for sure.

[1328] A foundational piece to our sound.

[1329] Exactly.

[1330] Waffle House has that.

[1331] Dupy Brothers fact.

[1332] What was cool was that he talked about how he was a new father and he's been married for a while.

[1333] We're just kind of meeting each other at the same.

[1334] point.

[1335] And so it was a natural segue for us to really click creatively.

[1336] And he played this one song called Montana Sky, which is on the album.

[1337] And it's the first song we recorded.

[1338] And we just said, okay, can you stay tomorrow?

[1339] He's like, well, I'm supposed to fly back tonight.

[1340] We're like, stay tomorrow and we'll just record it.

[1341] Which I think for him was surprising because most of these artists out here are such divas and take forever.

[1342] They're fucking lazy.

[1343] Let's call what it is.

[1344] But we just jumped in and did it.

[1345] And that was the start to process.

[1346] We're from the Disney machine.

[1347] We know how to do it.

[1348] We did do the photo shoot and everything.

[1349] Yeah.

[1350] Shot it all.

[1351] We have those Toot brushes that sing to you and you brush your teeth on the way out.

[1352] Tooth tunes.

[1353] Tooth tunes.

[1354] This is out of left field, but I couldn't help but stumble upon.

[1355] And again, I just said Jake Jllenhaal.

[1356] You dated Taylor Swift.

[1357] Have you had any of the insane, he dated her?

[1358] I didn't know that about him.

[1359] I didn't know that about him.

[1360] But I guess he dated her for like a couple months.

[1361] And then when he was on, and there's the thousands of Taylor Swift Rabbit fan, where is the scarf?

[1362] And I thought, oh my God.

[1363] Have you gotten out on skays?

[1364] the Swifties, did they like you or do they hate you?

[1365] I hope to think they like me. Okay.

[1366] No one vucks with the Swifties, you know?

[1367] No, no, no. It's like the teacher's union.

[1368] We've got a, you know, we've got a very, oh my goodness.

[1369] We've got a very serious, we don't even really have a nickname for them, but our fan base is, we get it.

[1370] We understand.

[1371] Be very passionate and get behind your artist.

[1372] Protective and protective and be like, this is my artist, how dare you.

[1373] I'm cool with Taylor.

[1374] We're cool.

[1375] Okay, great.

[1376] We love her.

[1377] And the fans never got mad at you.

[1378] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1379] Oh, okay, okay.

[1380] That's what I was curious.

[1381] Because I was thinking maybe they were like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[1382] But it's been many, many years removed.

[1383] It could be a family mafia war where the Swifties were like, I guess we're going toe to toe with the Jonies.

[1384] Like, let's go, Joni.

[1385] The Jones and the Swipies.

[1386] What's that story?

[1387] You're a jet.

[1388] You're a jet.

[1389] Oh, my God.

[1390] What are they called?

[1391] He just said they don't have a name, but they should be the Jonies.

[1392] I think that our fans, they're, our age, no. They are passionate in the way that fans are passionate, but I think they're all, like, working adults.

[1393] We have a lot of fans that are, like, dentists and teachers.

[1394] Yeah, but so do we, and they have a name, arm cherries.

[1395] Arm cherries.

[1396] They literally refer to themselves to that.

[1397] They say, hi, I'm an arm cherry.

[1398] Yeah.

[1399] That's sweet.

[1400] It's very sweet.

[1401] Oh, I love it.

[1402] And I got cherries tattooed all over my arm in response to them.

[1403] Very sweet.

[1404] I love it.

[1405] All to say, you guys can still have a name.

[1406] I think there is a name.

[1407] But you don't want to say it out of it.

[1408] I just like, I think it changes.

[1409] What are you going to say?

[1410] I don't know, actually, now that I'm thinking about it.

[1411] Now they've thrown me with Jonies.

[1412] I like Joni's.

[1413] I like the Joni's works.

[1414] Or Joe B's because Jonas Brothers.

[1415] I've heard Jonatics.

[1416] Genetics.

[1417] Oh, wonderful.

[1418] Not as good as Jonatics.

[1419] Joni's are way better.

[1420] I can see it in your face right away.

[1421] You went, oh, that's not as good as long.

[1422] Yeah, I'm going to go to Joni is the new.

[1423] You've officially did it.

[1424] Thank you.

[1425] Good job, Ben.

[1426] It's taken 20 years, but we've got it, guys.

[1427] It feels young.

[1428] You were officially the father of the Jonies.

[1429] My kids are going to be so excited that I've not found my way into your world.

[1430] Okay, so intentionally, though, we've decided we want to honor some of these amazing 70s and 80s, band bands.

[1431] It's because when people come to see a show, whether you have context or not, whether you're a Jonas Brothers fan.

[1432] A Joni.

[1433] A Joni.

[1434] A Joni fan.

[1435] Please say the correct.

[1436] Yeah, sorry, I've got to get it right now.

[1437] It is a full band on stage.

[1438] This was the most frustrating misconception about our band from the beginning is I think people really didn't know the music and knew of us.

[1439] and just assumed it was a boy band we danced and sang.

[1440] And then someone played a track behind you.

[1441] Yeah, we don't dance, first of all.

[1442] And if you can do a show.

[1443] Speak for yourself, bro.

[1444] So, you know, yes, we wanted to lean into the 70s, but we also have a very modern record -making approach.

[1445] And so does John Belly and the producer.

[1446] Joe brings his own very specific sound.

[1447] That's sort of a version of DNCE, what we do together.

[1448] And I kind of come from a different, more R &B, kind of soulful element.

[1449] We're able to kind of combine all that with this in a way that we don't feel we've done as organically, before we're really proud of our records the reason we called this one the album so we felt like if we were going to pull out of our whole discography one album say just listen to this you know who we are the album and we got it we achieved that goal oh that's a huge goal well we'll see especially when the previous album was happiness regardless of what other people think so we're in a really interesting time in the music business as a whole where our metrics for measuring success are a moving target You know, you've got TikTok, which is now probably even more important, dare I say it, than certain charts and playlisting.

[1450] And then obviously streaming between Spotify and Apple Music has changed the game.

[1451] I just want to add, because you sound like a blowheart at acknowledging this, but they've sold 20 million albums, but they have billions of streams.

[1452] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1453] Which is almost incomprehensible.

[1454] What's crazy is that the aggregate chart, right, is the hot 100 or hot 200 Billboard chart.

[1455] And now it's just so hard to know if that is a chart.

[1456] It's a true sort of roundup of all of these metrics.

[1457] Your information is coming at you from so many different angles.

[1458] And there's a song that'll chart on TikTok for two or three weeks and be a trend that everyone's doing the dance or whatever the trend is around it.

[1459] And then it takes a minute for streaming and radio to catch up.

[1460] So that chart, it's just moving in real time.

[1461] So I think for us, we used to look at one thing to say, okay, this is how we measure success or certain benchmarks we place on ourself of albums we want to sell or a number of singles we want to sell.

[1462] And now it's just like, did we effectively tell our story and are we enjoying what we're doing are we proud of it and are we still able to go and play shows for our fans and have them really engaged and we're checking all those boxes okay great and so uh this is a long -winded way of saying chart success is neither here nor there and as long as we can play shows with our fans and connect with real people it's the win well as you guys have said you've left the scarcity mentality of any mistake is going to spell our ruin we're post that story about ourselves right everyone's gonna be fine and now we're only gonna do it because we love to do it and we want this album to exist on planet earth and no one else is making it those are different motives totally they're a lot more pure right i mean new stories to tell which is what you're saying earlier talking about fatherhood and a song you never done that so the song little bird it's a thing yeah now back to the band that you guys perform with the band i've seen the most is steely dan i think in my life I think I've seen Stealing down like 20 times.

[1463] It's awesome.

[1464] And largely driven by they always and were famous for having the best studio musicians on planet Earth.

[1465] And so when the drummer gets his solo, it's like, it's the best goddamn drum solo you've ever heard, right?

[1466] That's such a fun element if a band prioritizes that.

[1467] And it sounds like you guys do do that.

[1468] Definitely.

[1469] So we have a core band that we travel with.

[1470] The instruments, we're not playing on stage.

[1471] So our drummer's been the same drummer for almost 15 years.

[1472] Almost 20 years, actually.

[1473] I met on Thanksgiving.

[1474] but yeah we've had a lot of the same people we've had but never been adding players so we played five nights on Broadway each night we played a different album from our discography and then led up to playing the new album this was about two months ago every night we would add more musicians that we kind of brought into the fold when we were making that record so it'd say like one record we had horns so the next night you'd see horns and strings and strings horns and choir so this album that we're at now when you see it on stage it's quite exciting.

[1475] We have a show tonight here in L .A. We have a choir up there with us.

[1476] We have a couple extra players.

[1477] You want to be able to hear as closely as you possible of what you're going to hear when you put on your headphones and hear the album, you know?

[1478] Yes.

[1479] I can believe you guys have a show tonight and you're here.

[1480] Yeah.

[1481] You know what's new for us too is that before each of our shows in this kind of promo run that we've been doing, so we've been doing one -offs, is we've been doing like an hour hangout slash content creating.

[1482] It's a new world.

[1483] Even just from four years ago when we released the last album, your promo was like your traditional sort of things, your late night shows.

[1484] Radio and GMA.

[1485] And it's been so fun, honestly.

[1486] This is not me spinning this.

[1487] It's been so fun and liberating to like be 20 years into a career and expect to just kind of be doing the same thing, each album cycle.

[1488] But now in just a four -year period, the user at home is really telling us, they're gatekeeping now for themselves.

[1489] It's a way better way to connect.

[1490] So between doing a podcast, which we weren't doing four or five years ago, to going and making a funny TikTok with a TikToker.

[1491] It's like your ability to reach people is so much broader and also it's way more fun.

[1492] This is way better than doing other kinds of traditional promo.

[1493] Yes.

[1494] Yeah, and we say that to every podcast.

[1495] Yeah, I bet you do.

[1496] I bet you.

[1497] How many podcasts have you guys done?

[1498] We've done a few.

[1499] I mean, this go around, this is our second or third one we've done.

[1500] We did one that was like very like music specific.

[1501] But this one's been really enjoyable.

[1502] Did you Rubens?

[1503] No. But the guy that we're co -writing our book with, which is a whole other story.

[1504] He just co -wrote his book.

[1505] Neil Strauss.

[1506] Oh.

[1507] No shit.

[1508] He's brilliant.

[1509] People fucking love his book.

[1510] I've started it.

[1511] I love it.

[1512] I've not been able to finish it.

[1513] He's such a character.

[1514] But I have it sped up, so it's Rick Rubin on speed, which is kind of like.

[1515] Right.

[1516] It's like normal.

[1517] Normal talking.

[1518] Yeah, it's because honestly, it's very slow.

[1519] He does.

[1520] With intention.

[1521] Yes.

[1522] If I had to say the defining characteristic of Rick Rubin, he's sitting where you're at, Nick, and he goes, huh, Stu, I'm holding here.

[1523] Can I turn off this air?

[1524] And I was like, I'm in awe of that.

[1525] I would never be somewhere and ask if someone could turn off the air.

[1526] I just live with whatever.

[1527] This is their confidence that he has.

[1528] And he goes, well, no, I mean, I just don't enjoy it.

[1529] You would want to know if I don't enjoy it.

[1530] It's not a problem.

[1531] Like, he's like, I'm not saying there's an issue.

[1532] You would want to know if I'm not happy.

[1533] Yes.

[1534] To me, I was like, that's the essential ingredient that I don't have.

[1535] Can I have that?

[1536] Yeah, it's aspirational in a weird way.

[1537] I'd be so nervous you thought something about me, you know?

[1538] This guy, I guess he runs cold.

[1539] He's just saying, just my...

[1540] Nothing personal going on here.

[1541] I'm not saying.

[1542] What would have happened, though, if you just said, no. He also said, if you said, no, I need it cold, he would have been like, okay.

[1543] He's not in it to, like, win a thing.

[1544] He's just saying, I'm cold right now.

[1545] Can we fix that?

[1546] Like, which is totally okay to say.

[1547] It is amazing.

[1548] How simple that is, though.

[1549] It shows how our brains really work as creators and, like, artists and other things.

[1550] That moment, the temperature could be the thing that someone's going to.

[1551] to judge us for.

[1552] Yes.

[1553] And it's that simple, but the confidence just to be like happy about the way you want to be in that moment is amazing.

[1554] He could have told me all about himself, but that one little thing, I was like, I know more about you right now than I will know from any story you tell me. Cool, thanks for the podcast.

[1555] Yes, yes, you can go now.

[1556] We have to let you guys go back.

[1557] Oh, right.

[1558] This was on a time hunch.

[1559] I'm dying to know about your little brother.

[1560] I don't know if you guys have a good sense of humor about yourselves or if you're triggered by things, but I just learned this the other day.

[1561] someone referred to your little brother as a bonus Jonas and I thought that's a really good name it's good to everyone else but him and I understand why yeah yeah when he finally said can I not be named yeah we're like we're gonna retract we got you bro we got you we got you we'll defend you on that one I wouldn't like that but he also has a show tonight oh great yeah yeah and Priyanga has a premiere of her show tonight oh my god we're pretty busy here in L .A. Dang my goodness everyone knows we can two after Coachella on a Tuesday is a big Jonas Knight.

[1562] Everyone knows.

[1563] Put it on the calendar every year.

[1564] Always doing something in town those Jonas guys.

[1565] A lot of people send me going to Coachella.

[1566] I go, fuck that.

[1567] You know Jonas Nights is only two days after.

[1568] I got to save my energy.

[1569] Yeah, I can't be spending.

[1570] Three places at once.

[1571] It's impossible.

[1572] Franklin is doing great though.

[1573] Not with this new show.

[1574] We do a TV show together.

[1575] Me and Franklin from ABC.

[1576] Yeah, it's called Claim to Fame.

[1577] Oh, wonderful.

[1578] So he's in the fold.

[1579] I'm so obsessed with this show.

[1580] It's a competition show.

[1581] Yeah.

[1582] You want to give the break down?

[1583] Why, have you ever spoken about that?

[1584] Let me try it because you talk.

[1585] I don't need your like ABC answer.

[1586] I want to give my answer.

[1587] Right, right.

[1588] We're going to get the real.

[1589] It's a show where if you're related to a famous person, everyone in the house is like big brother, but no one knows who the person is related to.

[1590] They all have like an alias name and their alias job.

[1591] You have to try to figure out and they take their phones away for like two weeks and they'll be like living in the house.

[1592] They film everything.

[1593] And then everyone's about Kevin and Franklin come in and they're like, all right, today's challenge to get a clue about the people you're around.

[1594] be like, this is the greatest concept I've ever heard.

[1595] It's so fun.

[1596] Me and my wife were like so obsessed and he was like, you're going to tell you the next week?

[1597] I'm like, no. I'm that obsessed with it.

[1598] We just wrapped season two and it is wild.

[1599] Oh man, I must watch that.

[1600] That sounds wonderful.

[1601] Well, you guys are fucking delightful.

[1602] I'm happy to get to me. Yeah, you guys are wonderful.

[1603] A blast.

[1604] Yeah, this is really fun.

[1605] It's so comfortable here.

[1606] I love the temperature here.

[1607] I'll give you that.

[1608] Great temperature.

[1609] Now, this is a lot to ask and it's self -serving, but if it wouldn't kill you to say, just once I'm We're not as cool as Dax.

[1610] That you wish you were me. You know, that could solve everything in my house.

[1611] Honestly, before we end this, I just wanted to say, you know, after we sat here this whole time, I'm just sitting and like, you know, I am dying to pee, but I will say, we just wish we were as cool as you, Dex.

[1612] That's it, guys.

[1613] I'm going to kill myself in a couple hours.

[1614] Everything's been accomplished.

[1615] It's all downhill from here.

[1616] Really great meeting all you guys.

[1617] I want everybody to consume with great haste.

[1618] the album.

[1619] It's absolutely fantastic.

[1620] I was such a huge fan of the last album.

[1621] It's impossible not to love Sucker.

[1622] And here we are again.

[1623] And I think that's the exact same with this album.

[1624] So congratulations, you guys.

[1625] Thank you so much.

[1626] Really impressive.

[1627] This was awesome.

[1628] All right.

[1629] Be well, boys.

[1630] Thanks.

[1631] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1632] Jeff Daniels.

[1633] Yeah.

[1634] He's great.

[1635] I love him.

[1636] I know.

[1637] He's so good.

[1638] He's so good.

[1639] What I love about Jeff Daniels is he walks to the walk.

[1640] He is in rural Michigan sitting on a farm and he's got a motorhome.

[1641] He drives his motor home to the jobs he does.

[1642] And he goes back to his farm in Michigan.

[1643] And I know where it's at.

[1644] It's in rural Michigan.

[1645] Oh, wow.

[1646] Oh, yeah.

[1647] And he is in real life, 6 -3.

[1648] And Comey 6 -8.

[1649] Yeah.

[1650] So he had to wear three -inch shoe lifts.

[1651] Oh, wow.

[1652] Which didn't even get them there.

[1653] No. I want to ask you this question, but I know you would never answer it and fear that someone in the audience would be above this height, so you're not going to answer.

[1654] But I am curious, what height do you think is too tall?

[1655] Or it's just, like, distracted, and it's all you can think about.

[1656] Eight feet.

[1657] Eight feet.

[1658] Yeah, that's a good number.

[1659] That's a safe one, because you're not going to upset anyone listening.

[1660] But I really feel that.

[1661] Like, I never think someone's too tall.

[1662] No. I've never seen anyone who, I mean, I've seen people that, and I think, wow, they are so tall.

[1663] That's so cool.

[1664] fun but that's where it ends i don't think it's obtrusive but there's a height at which you'd be like i don't think i can date you oh you're way too fucking tall or no would you do shack the shack shack's like your size yeah i mean if ex -girlfriend yeah i don't think i've ended it for a long time i know i want him to be forever unless he found someone shorter then i'm up for that but i only want him to replace her with someone shorter i know i know you do i have my dude wishes i would depend on his personality and i think he has a great one actually shack yeah oh god yeah he's got the but not a good person maybe the best well you have in the world oh my god your level of abusiveness do you follow him on instagram um i don't but if you did i think you would agree with me i think yeah he is at all points in a day a given day he has learned a new rap song and a new dance and he's dancing and singing his way through life i know and everyone around him is I know, I love him.

[1665] I love him so much.

[1666] Shaquille, I love you.

[1667] So his height is not going to be a factor in the dating.

[1668] Okay.

[1669] I think, I'll do it.

[1670] Like, I can't, if you just asked me if I had a son, like, what's the max height?

[1671] I don't want him to be?

[1672] Okay, great.

[1673] Six -four.

[1674] What?

[1675] Yes.

[1676] I think after six -four, it's the first thing you have to talk to everybody about that you meet.

[1677] Like, everyone you meet's going to want to talk about how tall you are.

[1678] If 100 % of the time I met people, they're like, whoa, what's the weather like up there?

[1679] guy.

[1680] I'd be like, fucking, hey, can we stop talking about how tall I am?

[1681] And I think that number is six four.

[1682] Maybe, but also if they play basketball professionally.

[1683] Then I want them to be six eight.

[1684] Right.

[1685] And then no one's really saying that.

[1686] Yeah.

[1687] They're like, you're shorter than I expected because you're in the NBA.

[1688] Yeah, you should be eight feet.

[1689] Seven.

[1690] Seven.

[1691] Who's ever been eight feet besides Andre the.

[1692] Rand, Randolph Waldo.

[1693] Is that a thing?

[1694] Eight.

[1695] foot 11.

[1696] Who's that?

[1697] Waldo Randolph.

[1698] Robert Waldlow.

[1699] Robert Waldlow.

[1700] Eight foot 11?

[1701] Eight foot 11.

[1702] Yeah.

[1703] Who is that?

[1704] He died at 22.

[1705] He's the largest man to ever live.

[1706] But is he just a guy?

[1707] He was a guy in the 30s, I think.

[1708] Oh, okay.

[1709] My new bowl was really tall.

[1710] Nothing, nothing.

[1711] What?

[1712] I remember I didn't remember his name, but really close.

[1713] Oh, you want to, you want to pat on the back?

[1714] I want to pat on the back.

[1715] Eight foot 11.

[1716] I knew that.

[1717] Great job.

[1718] Great job.

[1719] You didn't care.

[1720] Now now you're faking it.

[1721] and I can tell.

[1722] If you ask for a compliment, you're going to get this.

[1723] And I knew it while I was saying it.

[1724] I was like, this will not go the way you want it to.

[1725] It's not going to feel good.

[1726] That's what you just got to be proud of yourself.

[1727] You do have to.

[1728] I know.

[1729] It's hard, though.

[1730] I want attention and approval.

[1731] I give you tons of attention and approval.

[1732] I know.

[1733] Well, nice mix of disapproval and approval.

[1734] That's how you know it's real.

[1735] That's true.

[1736] What, Rob?

[1737] There was a basketball player that was 7 -7, Mnute Bowl.

[1738] Minute bowl.

[1739] Oh, yeah.

[1740] Photos of him with Mugsy Boggs and.

[1741] who was five, wait, hold on, don't see anything.

[1742] I think Spudweb was 5 -5.

[1743] Mugsy was maybe, maybe 5 -5.

[1744] It's boring.

[1745] Yeah, this got boring.

[1746] Oh, God.

[1747] See, there's the disapproval.

[1748] Nice, nice big scoop of disapproval.

[1749] You were close.

[1750] Spudweb was 5 -6.

[1751] 5 -6.

[1752] Mugsy was 5 -3.

[1753] Damn, girl.

[1754] Oh, I love Mugsy.

[1755] He's almost your size.

[1756] I know.

[1757] I wish I could play in the NBA.

[1758] That would be hilarious.

[1759] Wouldn't it be?

[1760] Oh, my God.

[1761] You'd look like Air Bud, the dog.

[1762] That's how out of place you would look on the court.

[1763] There's also a movie where a chimp plays.

[1764] Take your pick.

[1765] Oh, my God.

[1766] Hey, both are racist.

[1767] No, they're not.

[1768] What were we talking about?

[1769] Raldolph Waldo.

[1770] What was his name?

[1771] Ralph Waldo Emerson.

[1772] Robert Wadlow.

[1773] Wadlow.

[1774] Let's go.

[1775] Let's go to a topic you like.

[1776] Let's go.

[1777] Okay.

[1778] Um, much more interesting.

[1779] Ooh, right back at you.

[1780] Um, what's been going on?

[1781] Oh.

[1782] Who's this for?

[1783] Let's start there.

[1784] It's for the Jonas brothers.

[1785] But I'm not ready to go there because I have to cut some of this height stuff.

[1786] J .B. Jonas B's.

[1787] Yeah.

[1788] Well, you, you name them, um, Jonies.

[1789] The Jonies.

[1790] You name their fans are the Jonies.

[1791] That's right.

[1792] Count me. I'm a joanie now.

[1793] I'm an official Joni.

[1794] Belieber and a Joni.

[1795] They were great.

[1796] They arrived in a sprinter van.

[1797] Did they?

[1798] Yeah.

[1799] I didn't even notice that.

[1800] This is a huge sprinter van in the driveway.

[1801] You have four gazillion.

[1802] I mean, it's like camouflage.

[1803] Yeah, that's true.

[1804] I would never be able to pick out a new car.

[1805] It's like, where's Waldo?

[1806] Waldo Emerson.

[1807] Yes.

[1808] Where's Wadlo?

[1809] That would be a dumb book.

[1810] Where's Wadlo?

[1811] Because you'd see him everywhere.

[1812] He'd be so obvious.

[1813] It's like for babies that.

[1814] book where's Wadlow or even to test blindness maybe oh you show them where's Wad blow and if they can't find them like you're you're blind good news and bad news did you like those books I love them my kids have them yeah so Delta and I will often in bed you still yeah because at first you're like yeah where's Waldo and you find him yeah but there's all kinds other people to find I know there's cute stuff hidden in there that's when you get to the next level I guess it's like, it's like leveling up.

[1815] I hate saying that term, but so embarrassing.

[1816] Someone, I don't want to say it publicly.

[1817] Someone has a business called leveling up.

[1818] Okay.

[1819] I see it all the time.

[1820] I can make it more broadly.

[1821] Can I make this more broad?

[1822] Sure.

[1823] People need to be careful when they commit to popular sayings as titles for movies, for books, for products, for services, for businesses.

[1824] Okay.

[1825] Like when you hear some cool pop culture thing, don't name anything out because it's gonna date itself like what if the company was called The Ben There Done That Yolo Yolo detailing Yeah but also What if they created that before We don't know how old that company is It could have predated You think this person invented the term Level Up?

[1826] I don't think so Well level up has always been a thing Since Mario Brothers Maybe even before that Since Sonic I don't know about that.

[1827] Level up is always been a thing or has been a thing for a very long time before it's now used colloquially as status leveling up.

[1828] Dopamigenic.

[1829] Colloquially.

[1830] Yeah.

[1831] Dopermogenic.

[1832] 1860s, the phrase leveling up.

[1833] 1860s?

[1834] The phrase...

[1835] Is it by skyscrapers?

[1836] Peers intermittently and parliamentary records.

[1837] since the 19th century, it took particular prominence during the 1860s in a debate about the relative positions of the Anglican and Catholic churches in Ireland.

[1838] And they were using the word level up.

[1839] You must arrive at equality either by leveling down or by leveling up.

[1840] Well, look at that.

[1841] Wow.

[1842] Predates Super Mario Brothers by two years.

[1843] Anyway, so that could have happened beforehand, so we don't want to.

[1844] Ding, ding, ding.

[1845] What?

[1846] Wadlow live.

[1847] in the era of level up and he was the ultimate level up yeah have you done anything more on your fort project no we've yet to have time okay since we started in fact that was a conversation this morning while I was on the turlet they love to talk to me while I'm on the turlet yeah and you could just shut the door oh it's shut they come to the door and they start talking and then they open it up and then we don't lock it no I don't lock it no lock doors in the house.

[1848] And then we chat.

[1849] And as they're opening the door, I go, guys, careful.

[1850] You know, because I don't save them if it's pewie in there.

[1851] Yeah.

[1852] They never care.

[1853] Yeah.

[1854] They just don't care.

[1855] And then they chat to me. So this morning was, can we work on it this weekend?

[1856] To which I replied, your cousins are coming this weekend.

[1857] So maybe, but maybe not.

[1858] How about after school today?

[1859] She's booked to the fucking gills today.

[1860] Oh, she is.

[1861] She's all booked up.

[1862] Oh, my God.

[1863] She's got, what has she got?

[1864] God.

[1865] She's going to horse riding for a couple hours.

[1866] Oh, my God.

[1867] Yeah.

[1868] And she has some other commitment.

[1869] She's getting into horses?

[1870] I hope not.

[1871] I know.

[1872] Same.

[1873] No. Well, no, she's not.

[1874] I will not allow that.

[1875] I'm not going to fucking have a horse somewhere.

[1876] I know, but also because it is a really expensive sport.

[1877] Yeah, I'm not going to do it.

[1878] And dangerous.

[1879] Sure.

[1880] Yeah.

[1881] That part doesn't bother me. It doesn't.

[1882] You said you're scared of them.

[1883] Well, you have motorcycles.

[1884] Well, that's what I was going to say.

[1885] I've got them on motorcycles.

[1886] Yeah, but you told me you were scared of horses.

[1887] I am because they don't, they aren't predictable like throttle brakes and steering.

[1888] Yeah, they have a mind of their own.

[1889] Okay, so you're agreeing with me. I am, but I'm saying that's not a deterrent for me. I'm being honest about that.

[1890] Okay.

[1891] Like, again, I let them ride motorcycles.

[1892] So I don't mind them getting hurt.

[1893] In fact, I think they should.

[1894] They'll be dead.

[1895] If they get kicked in the abs, abs.

[1896] Yeah.

[1897] Is that always?

[1898] Yeah.

[1899] What a bizarre location you pick.

[1900] Well, they get kicked in the stomach.

[1901] In the stubs.

[1902] They get kicked in the glutes.

[1903] I mean, that is a way a lot of people have been dead.

[1904] They've been kicked to death in the abs by horse?

[1905] Yeah.

[1906] No, that is common where because they don't see people behind.

[1907] They can't see and then they'll like kick their hind legs up.

[1908] Yeah, you get a little kick.

[1909] Or they will toss you off on accident and then and then kick.

[1910] And then that is common.

[1911] Yeah.

[1912] Don't laugh.

[1913] It's really serious.

[1914] I know it is.

[1915] Yeah, I know.

[1916] Christopher Reeve.

[1917] Yeah.

[1918] Yeah, I know.

[1919] Fuck.

[1920] See?

[1921] But that's, I'm just saying, you know me. Yeah, you don't care about that.

[1922] I'm not deterred by injuries and things.

[1923] Death, yeah, I don't want my kids to get into wing suiting.

[1924] That's got like an 80 % morbidity rate.

[1925] There is, I forget the name of it.

[1926] There's a term.

[1927] And it's basically occurrences per 10 ,000 of any activity.

[1928] There's some website.

[1929] A couple friends that are obsessed with it.

[1930] And it gives you the morbidity rate for almost every activity.

[1931] So, like, jogging has one, right?

[1932] Oh, sure.

[1933] Escalates up to motor, you know.

[1934] And at the very top of that would probably be wings suiting, where it's like more than half the people that do it end up dying from it.

[1935] Oh, God.

[1936] Mountain climbing's not a great one if you're doing it right.

[1937] Going for gold.

[1938] Oh, okay.

[1939] Well, speaking of bad things, death.

[1940] Oh, okay.

[1941] Good segue.

[1942] He talked about going up on his lines a few times, like going up on his lyrics.

[1943] Yes.

[1944] Mm -hmm.

[1945] And that was.

[1946] If you're an entertainer, that's a paralyzing thought.

[1947] It's the, it's actually you have nightmares about it.

[1948] That's a recurring dream where you get in front of your audience and you don't know what you're doing.

[1949] You shit the bed.

[1950] You don't know what you're doing.

[1951] What about that for a detailing company?

[1952] Shit the bed?

[1953] Yeah, shit the bed detailing.

[1954] Well, that doesn't.

[1955] It's a pop culture saying, which I advise it again.

[1956] Yeah, your mixed messages.

[1957] So now I'm in.

[1958] Okay, but I don't think that has anything to do with detail.

[1959] Okay, how about shit the bed house cleaning?

[1960] That's worse.

[1961] Well, you can shit the bed and they'll come clean your house.

[1962] That's right.

[1963] That would be the glass half full interpretation of it.

[1964] It would have to be shit the bed.

[1965] Like we clean the house by shitting in your bed.

[1966] No, that's bad.

[1967] We will clean your, shit in the bed.

[1968] For a premium.

[1969] That better be if that's what they're doing.

[1970] You got to wonder how many hotel staff.

[1971] Well, you did it.

[1972] What?

[1973] I haven't done it.

[1974] Yeah, you did.

[1975] Your orgy scene.

[1976] Oh, yes, but I dealt with that.

[1977] I cleaned that up.

[1978] I took it into the shower and scrubbed it.

[1979] I know, but then there's still a huge poop stain on it.

[1980] Come on now, guys.

[1981] Well, that is true.

[1982] You guys weren't there.

[1983] I was there.

[1984] Yeah, but are you telling me there wasn't a huge poop stain?

[1985] And also are you telling me that you even can remember because you were high.

[1986] Listen, listen, listen.

[1987] I remember all of it in great detail.

[1988] And after I took the sheets into the shower, they were.

[1989] They were fine.

[1990] They were fine.

[1991] They were.

[1992] Okay.

[1993] Still, somebody is cleaning up your shit.

[1994] Well, a washing machine is.

[1995] They're just, I put them in a big bunch.

[1996] They put that in a cart and then they take it to a washment.

[1997] They're not hand washing it at a New York hotel.

[1998] But they are opening up for stains because they probably have to bleach ones that have stains because I can't put that back on a on a bed.

[1999] I bet it went right back.

[2000] Okay, we're off of that.

[2001] We're not trying to rub my nose in a 20 -year -old accident.

[2002] I mean, wow, you do feel.

[2003] Go ahead.

[2004] It's hypocritical, right?

[2005] But I have an answer.

[2006] I know what you're feeling.

[2007] Let me say it.

[2008] Yeah, say it.

[2009] Because I didn't say hip.

[2010] I don't, it's not hippoc.

[2011] But I have mental telepathy with you.

[2012] Okay, but it wasn't hypocritical.

[2013] Why did you just mouth?

[2014] I know.

[2015] Because I don't want to interrupt you.

[2016] Thank you.

[2017] Thank you.

[2018] Because I, oh, stop it.

[2019] Oh, my God.

[2020] You're trying to get around interrupting by interrupting by mouthing.

[2021] I can't.

[2022] All I'm milding you is you're welcome.

[2023] You're so.

[2024] Okay.

[2025] I don't think.

[2026] it's hypocritical.

[2027] I think it's very surprising that...

[2028] Stop!

[2029] Stop!

[2030] I hate you right now.

[2031] Oh my God.

[2032] What do you want me to do?

[2033] Disappear while you make this statement?

[2034] Just listen to me. I am.

[2035] And it's exactly what I thought, which is this is kind of confusing because you are so happy to talk about this and now all of a sudden you're acting kind of shy about it.

[2036] Is that, I think that...

[2037] No, it's not that you're so excited to talk about it, but it's that you have this, I'm so open.

[2038] But then you have elements of embarrassment that just doesn't fit together, really.

[2039] Yeah, incongruous.

[2040] Incongruous.

[2041] Yes.

[2042] No, here's what it is.

[2043] I know what it is.

[2044] I have the answer.

[2045] Okay.

[2046] Like if I'm in control of it, of course, I feel safe.

[2047] Right.

[2048] So you hit me with reminding me that I shit the bed in an orgy.

[2049] Yep.

[2050] And I hadn't instigated that.

[2051] So it felt out of control for me. Sure.

[2052] That's why.

[2053] Like, you know, sometimes you're in the mood to tell you're embarrassing things.

[2054] And sometimes you're not.

[2055] And so it just kind of popped up like, oh, yeah, that's pretty embarrassing.

[2056] But I wasn't the author of it in this case, which is why I got shy or embarrassed.

[2057] Okay, so this is interesting.

[2058] So do you think it's actually, do you think it is vulnerable to tell something about yourself if you're in control?

[2059] I think it would be degrees of vulnerable, right?

[2060] It's not invulnerable to admit you've shit the bad.

[2061] Right.

[2062] But I feel safer if I'm in charge of wrong.

[2063] rolling out the order and the details.

[2064] And yes, there's, there's so, there's some vulnerability, but I feel safest if it all happens in a certain order.

[2065] I mean, just a simple fact that you didn't even mention that I had been on cocaine for 36 hours.

[2066] So if someone didn't hear the first time about it and they sort of shit the bed in orgy, I guess I feel better about people knowing what the state I was in.

[2067] Sure.

[2068] I feel less embarrassed.

[2069] I don't know why.

[2070] There's no less embarrassing version of it.

[2071] But for me, yeah, I guess that little detail maybe, you just jump right to the punchline.

[2072] Say something.

[2073] Say something.

[2074] Say something vulnerable for me. Say something.

[2075] Will you say something brand new that you've never said right now?

[2076] Or tell me a story you've never told.

[2077] Oh, my gosh.

[2078] Oh, my gosh.

[2079] Will you?

[2080] Wait.

[2081] And I imagine it's supposed to be embarrassing in nature?

[2082] No, it doesn't have to be.

[2083] It doesn't.

[2084] But it's something you've never told.

[2085] I don't know if I could make that.

[2086] Okay, something you never told me. Oh, boy.

[2087] But I wish it would be something.

[2088] Do you know that I used to pee in my trash can as a kid?

[2089] I do think I knew that.

[2090] And what was confusing to me is it was never there in the morning.

[2091] You drank it?

[2092] Well, no, I didn't drink it, but I would pee in my trash can in the middle of the night because I didn't want to go to the bathroom.

[2093] Yeah.

[2094] This was when I was like eight or something.

[2095] Yeah.

[2096] And then it would never be there in the morning.

[2097] Weird.

[2098] I know.

[2099] So you think you'd probably peeing on the carpet on accident.

[2100] No, I figured out later the trash can was cracked at the bottom.

[2101] So it would just, it would just leak right of the trash can onto my carpet.

[2102] Oh.

[2103] And then my room started smelling.

[2104] No, it did start smelling like urine.

[2105] And my mom was like in there like, sure.

[2106] What the hell is that smell?

[2107] Yeah.

[2108] You know, it's like grabbing all the usual suspects probably.

[2109] Yeah, yeah.

[2110] Mondys, the sheets.

[2111] Sure, sure, sure.

[2112] And then found her way over to where the trash can was.

[2113] Okay.

[2114] I didn't realize there was a crack in it.

[2115] Yeah.

[2116] I wasn't really smart enough to think it wouldn't have evaporated that quickly.

[2117] Yeah.

[2118] That was half new because I didn't know about the crack.

[2119] Mm -hmm.

[2120] So, okay.

[2121] All right.

[2122] I get half points.

[2123] Yeah.

[2124] That's not a level up.

[2125] No, it was, that was good.

[2126] Tell me one that you never.

[2127] I know, that's what now I knew you were going to make me do it.

[2128] I'm not doing it.

[2129] No, I will.

[2130] I will.

[2131] Can I give you a prompt?

[2132] No. Okay.

[2133] Because I didn't give you one.

[2134] I wanted one, though.

[2135] Oh, well, you didn't get one.

[2136] Okay, I'll match you in that this is something that happened when I was young.

[2137] Okay, but I really, okay.

[2138] Okay.

[2139] Okay.

[2140] I actually don't think I've told, I don't want to talk about this, actually.

[2141] That's a great sign.

[2142] That's really good.

[2143] We're somewhere.

[2144] I don't know why I find, I find this story so embarrassing.

[2145] Oh, good.

[2146] So I don't know if I want to say it.

[2147] Yeah, say it.

[2148] It's so upsetting.

[2149] Oh, good.

[2150] Well, what if I cry because I get so embarrassed?

[2151] Well, then you can cut it.

[2152] Okay.

[2153] Okay.

[2154] When I was little, third grade.

[2155] Okay, nine?

[2156] No, I wasn't in third grade.

[2157] I was, God, how old was I?

[2158] I must have been in fourth grade, fourth grade.

[2159] I was young for my age, so maybe nine.

[2160] And I went to my friends for a sleepover, and we had hot dogs.

[2161] This is already great.

[2162] It's already wonderful.

[2163] It's not sexual.

[2164] I feel like you think this is going to be a sexual story.

[2165] It's not.

[2166] I'm not, I haven't ruled that out nor is that what I'm betting now.

[2167] Just hot dogs is a great start for anything embarrassing.

[2168] And we were watching, I think, Dumbo.

[2169] Like I remember we were watching some movie with an animal with big ears.

[2170] So I imagine it to be Dumbo.

[2171] Anyway, we go to bed.

[2172] We're sleeping.

[2173] And I. And I. Oh, this is wonderful.

[2174] I don't want to say it.

[2175] Yeah, say, yeah.

[2176] Will you just guess it?

[2177] Do you throw up or do you, you threw up?

[2178] Yes.

[2179] You threw up while you were sleeping.

[2180] I hate this story so much.

[2181] Oh, my God, it's not even embarrassing.

[2182] It is for me. It's, I, I hate it.

[2183] Okay, what happened?

[2184] That happened.

[2185] You were in her bed.

[2186] Yeah.

[2187] And you were sleeping.

[2188] Yes.

[2189] And you woke.

[2190] up vomiting?

[2191] Well, I think I woke up and I didn't.

[2192] The hot dog wasn't sitting right.

[2193] You're like, hmm, that hot dog doesn't feel right.

[2194] Full hot dog.

[2195] Perfectly intact.

[2196] That's what I want.

[2197] I want to be like, and then the whole hot dog shoots out and hits her little buddy in the face.

[2198] No, no, no, no, no. I didn't know what was going on.

[2199] I didn't feel good.

[2200] And I didn't know what to do.

[2201] Yeah, because your mom wasn't there.

[2202] Yeah.

[2203] And so I threw up and on the pillow.

[2204] In the bed.

[2205] Yeah, in the bed.

[2206] Okay.

[2207] Wow.

[2208] And then I think then I went to the back.

[2209] I also don't ever throw up.

[2210] This is a longstanding thing before and after.

[2211] It's very rare for me to do.

[2212] This is one of only a few.

[2213] Yeah.

[2214] So I didn't, I did not really know what to do.

[2215] And then I think I went to the bathroom.

[2216] I don't know if I threw up.

[2217] I. I don't remember, but I just remember that I lied about it.

[2218] Okay, so in the morning?

[2219] Yeah.

[2220] So in the morning time, you girls wake up and there's some hot dog remnants.

[2221] Yeah.

[2222] There's throw up in the bed.

[2223] Yes.

[2224] Okay.

[2225] And then your little buddy is like, oh, no, Monica, did you throw up our hot dogs?

[2226] You're like, uh -uh.

[2227] Who came in here and did that?

[2228] Must have been your dad.

[2229] He ain't a lot of hot dogs.

[2230] You see how many he was eating?

[2231] I know, my daddy, so, yeah.

[2232] Is that basically what happened?

[2233] Kind of.

[2234] Like, I do think it was like, what is going on?

[2235] Who's been in here?

[2236] And it's like so obviously me. Did the parents get involved at all?

[2237] Yeah, but I was still lying.

[2238] Okay, great.

[2239] And then the mom obviously had to tell my parents.

[2240] Yeah, that despite Monaco's denial, we do believe that she vomited in our daughter's bed last night.

[2241] Yeah.

[2242] And then wouldn't admit it.

[2243] Yeah.

[2244] That's pretty cute.

[2245] You have a real rich history of lying when you're a kid.

[2246] I know.

[2247] I like it.

[2248] They were a rascal.

[2249] Well, that was out of, it was out of pure survival.

[2250] If anyone knows this, I will be kicked out.

[2251] Right.

[2252] And of course you couldn't handle the white person's hot dog.

[2253] Like you were showing your Indianness that it didn't sit well.

[2254] Like, your average American can eat six, seven hot dogs and be fine, but you just had one little hot dog in your sensitive subcontinent belly.

[2255] Yeah, I just thought she was going to be at school going like, yeah, Monica threw up.

[2256] I guess they can't eat hot dogs.

[2257] They.

[2258] That's what you heard in your head.

[2259] That is probably.

[2260] They can't even eat hot dogs.

[2261] I just was so afraid of being bad or being, yeah.

[2262] This brings up a question.

[2263] I can't believe I've never even asked you.

[2264] At that age, were your friends curious that you were brown?

[2265] Did they ask you any questions about that?

[2266] Or they just didn't even think about it?

[2267] At that age, I don't remember.

[2268] I know.

[2269] I feel like you would remember.

[2270] But I had such a long history of acting like it wasn't a thing.

[2271] So they could have at some point asked and I just would have...

[2272] Said I'm tan.

[2273] Yeah.

[2274] Yeah, I loved it to some.

[2275] No, I just would have probably brushed over it quickly.

[2276] to get past it.

[2277] Yeah.

[2278] You know what you could have said?

[2279] My family is a timeshare in Florida.

[2280] I should have said that if I had known what a time share was at that age.

[2281] Anyway.

[2282] Okay.

[2283] I had a question I wanted to ask.

[2284] Did you have permission to ask it?

[2285] Yeah, I don't know that I'll answer.

[2286] I know you won't, but I just want to know if I can ask it.

[2287] Okay.

[2288] What I thought might have happened in your past.

[2289] It has to have happened in your past, probably in everyone's.

[2290] Do you have a memory of having tooted somewhere?

[2291] and like now all of a sudden someone's there and you're like panicked they're going to smell your two you thought you were alone I mean I'm sure that's happened but that hasn't been a that's not a core memory okay all right this except that yeah yeah yeah puking a hot dog in a little girl's trundle bed oh god it was like a small bed oh it was a little twin or something yeah yeah I'm impressed you just laid back down and went I know yeah what a savage I know I know what the level of no one can know about like denial yeah yeah that's what I think I don't want to speak for everyone that's what my brain does is like when I do something unthinkable yeah literally the first thought is that didn't happen and then you kind of commit to that story in your head it's too it's too uncomfortable to imagine it did yeah just can't so you just got to go like that didn't happen but when there's throw up everywhere yeah I don't know whose that is yeah you're dad I ate a lot of hot dog.

[2292] So do you think he came in here to give you a kiss good night in the middle of the night?

[2293] Oh.

[2294] I know.

[2295] Okay.

[2296] He claimed her instead.

[2297] And I think it was an apartment.

[2298] Anyway, I just.

[2299] That's great.

[2300] Do you feel any lighter?

[2301] Not really.

[2302] I don't feel good.

[2303] Now you feel bad.

[2304] We've you puked a hot dog up right now.

[2305] You've had an hot dog since either.

[2306] Yeah, do you remember the next hot dog you have?

[2307] Yeah, I've had millions of hot dogs.

[2308] Okay.

[2309] It didn't slow you down.

[2310] No, it didn't.

[2311] But, oof, yeah.

[2312] It's rough.

[2313] That's a good one.

[2314] So here's a great.

[2315] This will be an experiment.

[2316] Okay.

[2317] Out of 10, how vulnerable did you feel telling that story?

[2318] Seven.

[2319] Seven, yeah.

[2320] Compared to some of the other whoppers you've told.

[2321] There's ones that have been more.

[2322] I don't know.

[2323] For some reason, that story is so hard for me to tell.

[2324] Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

[2325] I've had probably more quote vulnerable stories, but to me, again, it's what we're saying about you in the cocaine and the orgy.

[2326] Yeah.

[2327] That's not that vulnerable because you've seen.

[2328] said it before.

[2329] You're comfortable saying it.

[2330] You know.

[2331] But what I'm suggesting is that if in a couple months, I just randomly go, would you throw up a hot dog in bed?

[2332] I think you're going to go past where you're at just now.

[2333] And that's kind of what I'm saying about the diarrhea story.

[2334] It doesn't make you invulnerable or unvulnerable that you just now.

[2335] That was truly vulnerable.

[2336] Yeah.

[2337] And then eight.

[2338] But when I bring it up out of nowhere at some time and if there's a cute boy here as a guest and I bring that, you're going to hit like a 10.

[2339] There's no cute anyone here.

[2340] No, if in the future, in three months, we're sitting down Matt Damon's back or Ben Affleck's back.

[2341] And then I go, oh, would you puke your hot dog up in your bed when you're four?

[2342] Well, you're going to hit a 10.

[2343] Yeah, but I didn't do that to you.

[2344] You just said, oh, you fucked up some sheets at a hotel.

[2345] Is Lisa Bonnet sitting here?

[2346] Rob, I'm so hot for Rob.

[2347] Have you not figured that out in six years?

[2348] Enough.

[2349] Oh, my God.

[2350] That is not the same.

[2351] The audience.

[2352] They're here.

[2353] The cherries.

[2354] The audience is here for my story, too.

[2355] I know, but you were in control of it.

[2356] I'm just saying when you're in control of it, it's one.

[2357] Okay, I won't bring up that story anymore.

[2358] No, you can.

[2359] I can deal with what happened.

[2360] I'm just trying to explain your suggestion was perhaps, is it actually vulnerable?

[2361] Right.

[2362] And so I'm just trying to use this one as an analogy.

[2363] I get this.

[2364] It was vulnerable of you, and you might feel even more vulnerable if I bring it up.

[2365] up out of nowhere without any context.

[2366] Right.

[2367] I'm sure that's right.

[2368] I'm not the same as you.

[2369] I'm not really talking about all the crazy stuff I've done.

[2370] That's very true.

[2371] So that's where the juxtaposition lies.

[2372] It's part of my brand.

[2373] Yeah.

[2374] Yeah.

[2375] I agree.

[2376] It's just interesting.

[2377] Well, no, by the way, I'm not putting any of it on you.

[2378] I'm more observing the fascinating aspect of that, which is even like when we've had people on that they write a book.

[2379] And then they come here and then I ask him about a thing that's actually already in their book.

[2380] Yeah.

[2381] But it feels weird.

[2382] Yes.

[2383] Well, thanks for your share.

[2384] I like it.

[2385] And of course, I like you more.

[2386] Here's the irony of life.

[2387] I like you more knowing you puked up a little hot dog and hit it.

[2388] I think that is fantastic.

[2389] That's like, I think of 10 things I like about you, that's making the list.

[2390] And if I'm pitching you to someone, do not.

[2391] Please don't add that in the pitch.

[2392] It's so good, though.

[2393] All right.

[2394] I want to leave it out.

[2395] It's really.

[2396] You got me my friend Monica.

[2397] She stole a bunch of cookies, racially motivated too, I think.

[2398] No. No. You know I like to say that.

[2399] You can't say that.

[2400] Does he you steal all black boys cookies?

[2401] No, that was a boy I was being mean to.

[2402] Me too.

[2403] Okay.

[2404] Sorry, I'm confusing the two.

[2405] You stole cookies from a woman.

[2406] And then his hot dad came.

[2407] Yeah.

[2408] You thought the dad was so hot.

[2409] And then it made me regret all my actions towards the boy.

[2410] I know.

[2411] The cookies was a girl.

[2412] She did.

[2413] she had a disability no she didn't she didn't but she did leave class that's when i stole the cookies when she was in her special class maybe it could have been speech class because i also had to go to speech class that's true so you'd be okay it's fine she went to speech class then i went to speech class that's like me talking about deaf stuff yeah you're allowed to you also went to speech class.

[2414] I was a speech class, too.

[2415] This is the result.

[2416] You should have heard me before.

[2417] I sound like cookie monster.

[2418] Give me her cookies.

[2419] Crunch, crunch, crunch.

[2420] Anyway, I don't love that, I don't want the reputation to be that I was a liar, even though there does seem to be a through line between three things that happened.

[2421] The cookies, the sand art. And the potato, the hot dog.

[2422] Hmm.

[2423] What?

[2424] Nothing.

[2425] You just told me that.

[2426] I'm saying, mm. Well, you said I was a liar.

[2427] When?

[2428] Like 45 minutes ago.

[2429] We started talking about this.

[2430] Oh.

[2431] Yeah.

[2432] No. These are great stories.

[2433] They make you more likable.

[2434] No, they know.

[2435] Yes, especially you.

[2436] No. You have to recognize what you.

[2437] you're fighting against.

[2438] I don't know if you know what you're fighting against.

[2439] I know me. I know you know you, but I don't know if you know what you're fighting against.

[2440] So I'll give myself as an example.

[2441] I'm borderline very dushy.

[2442] It's kind of dorky to be borking out and getting muscles all the time.

[2443] Tattoos, borderline, all of its borderline hypermasculine, toxic masculine.

[2444] I acknowledge that.

[2445] Fight stories, broken knuckles, scars, tattoos, blah, blah.

[2446] So I actively try to like, I dress feminine, I wear a headband, I have pink stuff all the time.

[2447] I like I kind of try to counter that because I don't want people think I'm a toxic, masculine cliche.

[2448] Because you're not.

[2449] Because I'm not.

[2450] Yeah, yeah.

[2451] So you're trying.

[2452] And you present as a goody -goody.

[2453] Straight A. I mean, I'm in a college friend of that.

[2454] Okay.

[2455] I hate when men do this.

[2456] Do what?

[2457] Man. Yeah.

[2458] Why is this a gender thing?

[2459] Because you just talked like a little girl in this stupid voice.

[2460] Uh -huh.

[2461] thing guys do.

[2462] I don't like it.

[2463] Okay.

[2464] Okay.

[2465] I'll make it give you a guy's voice.

[2466] Oh, always.

[2467] It was a perfect school.

[2468] I'm a great student.

[2469] I didn't go to a perfect.

[2470] I dress nice.

[2471] Okay.

[2472] All right.

[2473] So does that be any matter?

[2474] Yeah.

[2475] But you present as a goody -goody, a straight -A student.

[2476] That's who I was.

[2477] I know.

[2478] But it's kind of fun to layer in.

[2479] I'm also a thief and a liar.

[2480] Oh, my God.

[2481] I think it's great.

[2482] I think it's, I think it makes you cooler.

[2483] Listen.

[2484] Okay.

[2485] More multidimensional.

[2486] Listen, I think if you are perturbed by, quote, goody goodies, I think that's an issue with you.

[2487] I think there is nothing wrong with trying to be good, especially when you're young.

[2488] Well, and especially as a girl, all girls, to some, many grow up with that inclination.

[2489] I also think it's okay to want to be good.

[2490] And I think people who have a problem with that, that's their issue.

[2491] I don't care to fight the goody -goody.

[2492] It is their issue if you're one of the goody -goodies.

[2493] I don't know what the percentage is, but many goody -goodies have to be a goody -goody relative to someone else is a dirtbag.

[2494] And they're a fuck -up.

[2495] What do you mean?

[2496] The kid's gross.

[2497] He's a slob.

[2498] They look like crap.

[2499] They're dumb.

[2500] All the opposite virtues of a goody -goody.

[2501] For you to be a goody -goody, there has to be the opposite of that.

[2502] And so many goody -y -goodies, I'm not saying you.

[2503] but a lot of goody -goodies think they're superior to the burnouts.

[2504] They feel superior to burnouts.

[2505] I think you think that because you are on the other side of it.

[2506] Of course.

[2507] And I heard goody -goodies saying the most hateful, evil things to these poor kids who were dirty and did bad in school.

[2508] So I witnessed it.

[2509] I've been called it.

[2510] So I know that those goody -goodies were self -righteous and felt superior.

[2511] So those ones, of course I have an issue with.

[2512] If you're a goody -goody because you're above or better or cleaner or smarter, all these things than someone else, I don't love that.

[2513] Now, if you're just a goody -goody because you're drawn to goodness, that's great, but there's both variety exists.

[2514] You're only looking at it from one side of the, quote, rich people who feel superior being mean.

[2515] Yeah.

[2516] But that does translate the other way.

[2517] Of course.

[2518] So then us, the dirt road kids who are like, they're stuck up.

[2519] They're entitled.

[2520] Yes.

[2521] Parts of both groups are being mean.

[2522] Right.

[2523] So what I find attractive in a dirt bag from the dirt roads is finding out that he or she is really well read.

[2524] I'm like, oh, that's really cool.

[2525] That always attracts me to somebody.

[2526] If you find Connor McGregor is also like a genius and a philosophical, it's really appealing.

[2527] It counteracts the other narrative.

[2528] Yeah.

[2529] It just makes people dimensional.

[2530] And then when the popular soch, dates the burnout kid, I like it.

[2531] I go, oh, that's cool.

[2532] She's not letting any of that.

[2533] So it's just attractive to me that you could run in one circle but also be very embracing of all the other circles.

[2534] Sure.

[2535] Yeah.

[2536] So I just think when people signal that they have interests and are competent in all the other ones, it's just more appealing, in my opinion.

[2537] So to find out a goody, goody has a checker pass is very fun.

[2538] It's a better story.

[2539] I guess I just don't.

[2540] I don't even know what you're talking about that.

[2541] No, no, I know what you mean, but I think it's, I just think it's the fault of anyone to even call someone a goody -goody.

[2542] Because no one, everyone has a checker, everyone has stuff.

[2543] So to just like see someone who looks a certain way and have opinions about them based on that is the same as looking at someone in a trailer park and making a ton of observations based on that.

[2544] Yeah, but I think what would be fun is divorce ourselves from the situation, so it's less personal.

[2545] Let's use, for example, very outspoken Christians who are vocally against gays being together.

[2546] That's amoral and you're going to hell.

[2547] Vocally against gambling, vocally against drinking, vocally against all this stuff, right?

[2548] There's an error of righteousness about them.

[2549] And then you find out the dad's fucking men in town, hiring.

[2550] prostitutes.

[2551] Yeah.

[2552] Do you get that pang of you're a judgmental hypocrite?

[2553] Can you see that analogy that like for them to be self -righteous and pious?

[2554] There has to be people who are heathens.

[2555] And then when you find out, yeah, everyone's a fucking heathen.

[2556] Yeah, yeah.

[2557] But that's because they're being judgmental.

[2558] If they just walked through the world and didn't have sex and didn't, like they themselves had their own opinions about how they wanted to live their life.

[2559] Right.

[2560] versus being on TV saying anyone that doesn't live like them is going to hell.

[2561] Like being vocal about that being bad.

[2562] Yes.

[2563] That to me is so different.

[2564] So again, where I grew up, there were lots of kids who literally worked in the barn before they got on the bus.

[2565] And so there was just so many kids that got called gross all the time by the preppy kids.

[2566] And I don't like that.

[2567] Yeah.

[2568] And so I liked the preppy kids that made it very clear.

[2569] They didn't think that way about those kids.

[2570] and they're friends with those kids, and they just happen to have these clothes and that kid has, you know.

[2571] But the ones that define themselves by being not gross and this other group of class of kids were gross.

[2572] That's a rough thing to call.

[2573] Of course, that is.

[2574] But we got on this subject because you said, I'm fighting against being a goody, goody.

[2575] I think you should layer in some of the dark side.

[2576] But I'm not doing any of these things.

[2577] I'm not calling anyone dirty.

[2578] Yeah, you're fine.

[2579] I don't think you are.

[2580] But I think it would be completely naive and unrealistic and not reality, that when you present as a certain brand, it comes with some positive assumptions and some negative ones.

[2581] Sure.

[2582] But isn't that what we're fighting?

[2583] So what I could do is just go like, hey, yeah, I got tattoos and muscles and I drive hot rods.

[2584] I don't need to make any effort to prove to you I'm not a douche.

[2585] I could do that because I know I'm not.

[2586] Or I could just go like, let me send some signals to you that lets you know I'm not a toxic male.

[2587] I don't mind doing that.

[2588] That doesn't cost me anything.

[2589] Sure, but that's because you have an opinion about toxic masculinity that I agree with.

[2590] That's negative.

[2591] That you don't want to appear like that.

[2592] That's right.

[2593] I don't.

[2594] But I could just know I'm not that way.

[2595] And that's what you're saying.

[2596] You're like, I don't really need to let anyone know I'm also have a checkered pass because that's their problem if they think I'm a goody, goody, right?

[2597] Yeah, I don't care.

[2598] Yeah, you don't.

[2599] And I don't, because also I don't think being a, quote, goody, goody.

[2600] And now that definition of it is getting all murky.

[2601] I don't even.

[2602] It is, yeah.

[2603] You drank quite a bit.

[2604] Yeah, I don't even know.

[2605] I mean, if it's because, like, I don't have, like, a major, like, sexual history.

[2606] In smoke, you didn't cut class.

[2607] You didn't get in a fight.

[2608] Calling that person a goody -goody just because they followed rules is annoying.

[2609] Well, you think Goody -Gudy is a pejorie.

[2610] sort of just starting with that, right?

[2611] You think it's already...

[2612] It is if you're saying I need to counter it.

[2613] Yeah.

[2614] No, I'm saying you could or you couldn't.

[2615] I choose to, and I, of course, have a worldview that I find people more attractive when I think they're all the dimensions.

[2616] So when I look at someone that got straight age and played by all the rules and then found out she broke the rules a lot, I like the person more.

[2617] That's all.

[2618] Okay.

[2619] I didn't break the rules a lot.

[2620] Just when...

[2621] No?

[2622] Just with the sand art and the cookies.

[2623] And I wouldn't really call.

[2624] called the hot dog a rule.

[2625] Right.

[2626] Well, kind of unspoken rule.

[2627] You shouldn't throw up in someone's bed when you spend the night.

[2628] I didn't deny it.

[2629] I didn't lie about it.

[2630] Those are kind of, those are people kind of things.

[2631] I didn't mean to.

[2632] I know, you were sick.

[2633] I know you needed to be nurtured.

[2634] I didn't even feel safe enough to be able to tell anyone.

[2635] I know.

[2636] It's very sad.

[2637] I feel very bad for you.

[2638] Okay.

[2639] Sorry that someone served you tainted hot dogs.

[2640] She was doing her bad.

[2641] I'm trying to make ends meet, the M .A .T. Anyway.

[2642] Jonies.

[2643] Jonies.

[2644] Okay.

[2645] Is there a technical term for wanting to jump off like a high building?

[2646] The call of the void.

[2647] Right.

[2648] So yes, call of the void.

[2649] Yeah.

[2650] Is the name.

[2651] And also high place phenomenon.

[2652] Ooh, high place phenomena.

[2653] That's what people over 6 '4 get all the time.

[2654] Oh, my God.

[2655] How long does the soft space?

[2656] spot last.

[2657] Spaces between the bones of the skull where bone formation isn't complete.

[2658] The smaller spot at the back usually closes by age two to three months.

[2659] The larger spot towards the front often closes around 18 months.

[2660] Ayah, year and a half.

[2661] I don't remember it on my own children.

[2662] Yeah, I don't remember it on your kids at all.

[2663] But I definitely remember it on Carly.

[2664] Right, that's how this came up.

[2665] Because I was six and a half.

[2666] And you wanted to put your finger in it, you said.

[2667] Well, just I was terrified of it.

[2668] It's like, what?

[2669] My mom would be like, but be careful when you're holding Carly because that's her soft spot.

[2670] What?

[2671] I know.

[2672] There's no bone there.

[2673] I'm like, I can put my finger through it.

[2674] Yeah, you got to be so.

[2675] It's just like terrifying.

[2676] They used to talk about soft spots more.

[2677] They don't talk about it very much anymore.

[2678] Yeah, we were soft spot obsessed in the 80s.

[2679] We were.

[2680] Okay, does Jamarquai refuse to tour in the States?

[2681] That was acclaimed by the Jonies.

[2682] Uh -huh.

[2683] Yeah.

[2684] He hasn't toured in the state.

[2685] States.

[2686] He did one, okay, in like 2017 or something, but hadn't done it in a really long time.

[2687] He isn't doing much in the U .S. And somebody said because, mostly because of cost, he toured the U .S. over the years with corporate sponsorship or with record label funding.

[2688] But these days, any tour is a expensive undertaking.

[2689] And for Jamaica, they would only tour in the U .S. if there was a big profit margin at play.

[2690] Hmm.

[2691] So.

[2692] We need to personally put up some money.

[2693] Maybe the Jonies and I should start a charity to bring Jamarquite at the States.

[2694] That's really it.

[2695] That was it.

[2696] I would like to update everyone on one thing.

[2697] Okay.

[2698] So I have a hawk in my, that lives in my yard, right?

[2699] Or maybe one yard over, but in a really tall tree that appears that it lives in my yard.

[2700] Uh -huh.

[2701] All day long, he glides.

[2702] Yeah.

[2703] And all day long, the crows bomb him.

[2704] It's so hysterical.

[2705] He's not going anywhere, and they're not going anywhere.

[2706] I was watching them yesterday.

[2707] I was like, this is Israel Pallstein.

[2708] They're going to do this forever.

[2709] Oh, or Republicans and Democrats?

[2710] Sure, them too.

[2711] Any two, like, lifelong adversaries.

[2712] And nothing's happening.

[2713] Nothing's coming out of it.

[2714] This is all his energy expended.

[2715] The hawk doesn't really give a fuck.

[2716] I got to give it to the hawk.

[2717] He's chill or she is chill as fuck.

[2718] Because they're bombing, squawking.

[2719] Yeah.

[2720] And he or she never changes his or hers direction.

[2721] Oh.

[2722] And him or her land and they don't seem perturbed at all.

[2723] Nope.

[2724] And it just goes on every day.

[2725] Can anyone, can anything besides obviously humans kill a hawk?

[2726] Some eagles.

[2727] Okay.

[2728] Some bigger eagles.

[2729] Some maybe bigger hawks than this one.

[2730] Shark probably could kill it.

[2731] Great white.

[2732] Like a fox.

[2733] Even that, no, right?

[2734] Snow leopard.

[2735] Because they just, honestly, the shark couldn't.

[2736] It could catch it.

[2737] It's like going in the water to get fish, maybe.

[2738] Oh, and then it comes out perfectly.

[2739] Yeah.

[2740] It's a good idea.

[2741] All right.

[2742] But no, I don't think they have many predators.

[2743] That's cool.

[2744] That is.

[2745] Who am I, not chinchilla, in the animal kingdom?

[2746] Because I do have predators.

[2747] I'm small.

[2748] But I'm fast.

[2749] Well, you did not sound sure of that.

[2750] You did not sell it.

[2751] Okay, but Animal Kingdom.

[2752] Yes.

[2753] Who are you?

[2754] Who are you?

[2755] I'm a polar bear.

[2756] I know, but I know you are.

[2757] But not really, because it's too solitary.

[2758] I know.

[2759] I need to be a social animal.

[2760] I'm probably a islands gorilla.

[2761] But you're more...

[2762] They're not funny enough.

[2763] Oh.

[2764] I'm a champ.

[2765] Listen, no, because you're more in control.

[2766] Okay.

[2767] Like you're an animal...

[2768] Well, no, like you don't...

[2769] Sometimes you don't have control of your impulses.

[2770] But you are...

[2771] Not a predator, but you...

[2772] Like to kill things.

[2773] In the animal kingdom, you're high up as far as you could kill people and stuff.

[2774] You have power.

[2775] That's an elephant.

[2776] So an elephant's not out there killing anybody, but an elephant can kill everybody.

[2777] Like lions won't fuck with an elephant.

[2778] Elephant can kill a lion.

[2779] But they're not hunting.

[2780] So they're not out killing things, but they'll get down.

[2781] When any of these animals come at one of the babies, or even worse, The adolescent male elephants are insufferable.

[2782] They get kicked out of the caravan.

[2783] Yeah.

[2784] And then they have to come back.

[2785] So it's generally the bulls got to kick those adolescent boys out.

[2786] So they get wild there.

[2787] But I don't think, I don't feel like you have elephant energy because they're so slow.

[2788] Right.

[2789] They're fast.

[2790] Are they?

[2791] In that version of fast, they're slow.

[2792] Yeah.

[2793] Yeah, and cheetahs are, slow.

[2794] Well, there's no bullseye.

[2795] All right, so I'm going to go back to you.

[2796] Okay, I'm still thinking on yours.

[2797] You could be a badger, honey badger.

[2798] Every time you give me an animal, it's never flattering.

[2799] Do you want it to be hot or do you want it to be feisty and small?

[2800] I wanted to be indomitable.

[2801] I wanted to be accurate, but I do want it to be a black panther.

[2802] Yeah.

[2803] Okay, great.

[2804] You're fine.

[2805] No, I want it to be accurate.

[2806] Why am I a badger?

[2807] Because you're small.

[2808] Sure.

[2809] But you're indomitable.

[2810] Are badgers indomitable?

[2811] They're like scravenable.

[2812] They fight leopards.

[2813] Leopards will come to fuck with them and they'll fight and fight and the leopards leave.

[2814] They do.

[2815] That's what they're, you've seen those videos, the honey badger don't give a fuck.

[2816] They'll fight any animal.

[2817] They go into a bee hive and just start eating all the fucking bees in the honey and they're getting stung everywhere and they don't give a fuck.

[2818] Oh.

[2819] They're absolutely.

[2820] unhinged.

[2821] Oh my God.

[2822] But they're tiny and cute.

[2823] So you could try to pet one in the wild.

[2824] Let me look at up.

[2825] Look up a honey badger.

[2826] Oh, God.

[2827] What?

[2828] I guess I agree, but they're not cute.

[2829] They have very ugly faces.

[2830] No way.

[2831] This one's pretty cute.

[2832] They're super cute.

[2833] Badgers are cute.

[2834] Wolverines are just straight scary looking.

[2835] They have weird bodies.

[2836] Ew, I mean, like, that's yucky looking.

[2837] That's a gross looking one.

[2838] Look at the cute looking ones.

[2839] Oh, my God.

[2840] I should do cute Honey Badger.

[2841] Look, you have pictures of yourself you hate and love.

[2842] I mostly hate, yeah.

[2843] Type in Baby Badger.

[2844] Okay.

[2845] Baby Badger.

[2846] It was a picture of it throwing up a hot dog and a little bed.

[2847] Don't say that.

[2848] A cookie under its pillow.

[2849] Don't say that.

[2850] Was someone else's name on the cookies?

[2851] No, the only cute ones are the animated ones.

[2852] The rest are not very cute.

[2853] That's okay.

[2854] You're an animated bad thing.

[2855] No, no, no, no. I don't need you to tell me I'm cute when I'm not.

[2856] That's fine that that...

[2857] I'm not thinking of cuteness.

[2858] I'm thinking of spirit.

[2859] Yeah.

[2860] Right.

[2861] It can also be a hyena, but you're not going to like that.

[2862] But they're mean.

[2863] But that's a matriarchy.

[2864] It's one of the only matriarchies in the manual world.

[2865] But they're mean.

[2866] Not to their own.

[2867] Take care of their babies with their moms.

[2868] Long clitoris.

[2869] Yeah, they have a penis.

[2870] Oh, wow.

[2871] They have penises.

[2872] Well, remember, my vulva is small, but we know that from the chocolate.

[2873] Yeah, this is your claim about your vagina.

[2874] But we don't know.

[2875] We know based on the chocolate.

[2876] You know, Rob, I do not know.

[2877] Yes, see, both of you know because of the chocolate.

[2878] Both of you know that.

[2879] Okay, well, yours is TBD.

[2880] I think you're like a dinosaur.

[2881] Oh, my God.

[2882] They're all dumb, though.

[2883] Oh, were they?

[2884] Oh, my God, they have brains the size of a golf wall.

[2885] Like a T -Rex has a brain the size of a golf ball, and they need enormous head.

[2886] Okay, then you're a...

[2887] Velociraptor?

[2888] Teradactyl.

[2889] You're...

[2890] I mean, I do think it's, like, scary.

[2891] Could I be an orca?

[2892] Hmm.

[2893] Yeah, you like water.

[2894] I'm a water, baby.

[2895] They're big.

[2896] Yeah.

[2897] Kill hogs.

[2898] They're very smart.

[2899] They love to eat hawks.

[2900] They kill great whites, which I love.

[2901] But they don't eat humans.

[2902] A few times there's been orca attacks, it's always when a surfer's in a wetsuit and they think it's a seal.

[2903] But right when they get it in their mouth, they let it go because they realize it's not a seal.

[2904] Oh, I don't think we found it.

[2905] We haven't.

[2906] We'll just keep working on it.

[2907] You pre -approved some animals for Rob and I, and we'll pick from that pre -approved list.

[2908] That's not what we're doing.

[2909] I can accept that.

[2910] You're a honey badger?

[2911] you know whose nickname is the honey badger Daniel Ricardo Oh That's his nickname Why?

[2912] Because he's tenacious Oh, it's a tenacious one The most The fucking honey badger's the most tenacious thing On the planet Let me look up qualities of a honey badger Real quick All right People also ask when you Search Honeybadgers Why are Honeybetter so tough Oh Why are honey badgers so fearless Yeah Yeah.

[2913] Embracing these five honey badger characteristics.

[2914] Fearless.

[2915] Mm -hmm.

[2916] The honey badger's known for attacking enemies with far greater size and strength.

[2917] And being victorious.

[2918] Thick -skinned.

[2919] Oh, yeah.

[2920] Those bee stings don't mean shit.

[2921] Give a little work to do there.

[2922] Well.

[2923] Just a little bit of work.

[2924] On your thick -skinnedness?

[2925] As you get really offended that I suggest that.

[2926] I have thin skin.

[2927] It's okay if you have thin skin.

[2928] Yeah, but you, I know, but, Dax, you just said you need to work on that.

[2929] So when you say that...

[2930] I do too.

[2931] Okay.

[2932] I don't think it's...

[2933] I don't think it's necessarily a good or bad thing.

[2934] It's not aspirational.

[2935] I mean, I think it's bad if you're so sensitive to every single thing.

[2936] Maybe I am.

[2937] I don't know how much it serves me. How about that?

[2938] Your thin skinness?

[2939] Yeah.

[2940] I mean, I think it's maybe it's sweet that I can recognize it.

[2941] Right.

[2942] Maybe that's appealing.

[2943] But I don't think it's servicing me to get easily offended and hurt by things.

[2944] Right.

[2945] I don't know.

[2946] I guess that's true.

[2947] Yeah, I could do with a couple more microns of dermis.

[2948] I can too.

[2949] Pack of dermis.

[2950] Pussy pack.

[2951] Resourceful, unwavering, ferocious.

[2952] There you go.

[2953] That's pretty good.

[2954] These are great.

[2955] They are.

[2956] They are.

[2957] Say, thank you.

[2958] What is the most fearless animal in the world?

[2959] The Honey Badger.

[2960] Also bravest in the world.

[2961] Unless it's on an intertube floating down a river.

[2962] Do they know how to swim?

[2963] Probably not.

[2964] Every mammal.

[2965] That's not true.

[2966] That's not true.

[2967] Shims can't swim.

[2968] A lot of, they can't.

[2969] Cannot.

[2970] Yeah.

[2971] That's why they put a little water around them in any.

[2972] Because their muscle composition is so dense and they have such little fat.

[2973] They tend to sink.

[2974] The only primates that can swim are humans.

[2975] Right.

[2976] And I think Japanese macaques.

[2977] I think that's the only, those are the snow monkeys that hang out in the hot tubs.

[2978] Got it.

[2979] Got it.

[2980] Ooh, saying that apes and chimps and gorillas can, too.

[2981] I don't think chimps can swim.

[2982] Is that on sentient animals ?org?

[2983] But remember the...

[2984] You say it's super rare.

[2985] It's a National Geographic.

[2986] That's a trusted brand.

[2987] Very.

[2988] Yeah, I like that one.

[2989] The chimps are the ones in the canoes.

[2990] Oh.

[2991] So they can?

[2992] I don't think they can swim.

[2993] But they get in the canoe?

[2994] I know.

[2995] It's very scary.

[2996] They shouldn't do that.

[2997] I agree.

[2998] great, but they love it.

[2999] What if it's tips?

[3000] Because they're also.

[3001] Climsy?

[3002] Yeah.

[3003] They're pretty agile, actually.

[3004] I think these chimps that swim, they've been taught by like humans to swim.

[3005] Oh, wow.

[3006] I would love to go to a swimming class with a chimp.

[3007] You would.

[3008] Yeah.

[3009] It might start drowning and bring you with it.

[3010] Well, you would have to be teaching it and stop that.

[3011] Oh, I'm in the mix.

[3012] Yeah, there's a teacher.

[3013] I'm just in the class with other chimps.

[3014] Okay, great.

[3015] Some honey badger's.

[3016] Sounds like they're good at it, so they don't need to take any classes.

[3017] They must be able to swim, honey badgers.

[3018] All right.

[3019] Well, I love you.

[3020] I love you.

[3021] I love Jonies.

[3022] Oh, we're Jonies to the max.

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