Jay Shetty

[0] Welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert.

[1] I'm Dan Rather, and I'm joined by Mr. Mouse.

[2] Hello there.

[3] Hi there.

[4] Good morning.

[5] Good morning to you.

[6] You have so much to report.

[7] You should listen to the fact check.

[8] You were on a whole adventure.

[9] I was.

[10] A no -pants one.

[11] A no -pants adventure.

[12] Who doesn't want to hear about that?

[13] You know, Aaron DM'd me and said, you should never wear pants again.

[14] Weekly?

[15] Yeah.

[16] That's wonderful.

[17] Today we have Jay Shetty.

[18] Jay Shetty is a New York Times bestselling author, award -winning podcast host of On Purpose and Chief Purpose Officer of Calm.

[19] He has a book that was very popular called Think Like a Monk.

[20] And he has a new book out now called Eight Rules of Love, How to Find It, Keep It, and Let It Go.

[21] And we just had a very, very joyous time talking to Jay.

[22] We got a good education on Hinduism.

[23] Yes.

[24] Yes.

[25] I also want to add, if you like Formula One and you want to hear gossip about it, it and you want to hear a race debrief or what's coming.

[26] I urge you to check out a new podcast with Perfect End Charlie, Matt, and my friend Jethro, called F1, but you got to search that.

[27] It's not on our feed.

[28] EFFWON with DRS.

[29] F1 with DRS.

[30] Check that out if you love Formula One.

[31] Oh, before we go, it is time to announce April prompts.

[32] Yes.

[33] April prompts for Armchair Anonymous.

[34] Yeah.

[35] Okay, gang.

[36] By popular demand, driven by a story told by Paul Rudd.

[37] Yes.

[38] The first prompt is cremation disasters.

[39] Okay?

[40] So if you've had a disaster or a cremation mix up, tell us about it.

[41] Yes.

[42] The second prompt is Craigslist, anything involving Craigslist debacle.

[43] Yeah.

[44] Or just funny, whatever.

[45] Some Craigslist, yes.

[46] Third is a bad Airbnb or home share experience.

[47] Yeah.

[48] And then number four is a well -intentioned gift gone awry.

[49] Yeah.

[50] Okay, so we've got cremation, Craigslist, house share, and gift gone wrong.

[51] Submit to the website, www.

[52] www .armchairexpertpod .com.

[53] And please enjoy Jay Shetty.

[54] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[55] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcast.

[56] or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[57] It's our five -year anniversary today.

[58] No way.

[59] It's my four -year anniversary today.

[60] No way.

[61] Yeah, for my podcast too.

[62] Valentine's Day.

[63] Yeah, my wife was my first episode.

[64] Oh, same.

[65] There we go.

[66] Yeah, perfect.

[67] Oh, wow, there we go.

[68] Same, same, same.

[69] Oh, that's so funny.

[70] You did say, Dax, we have more.

[71] coming than with our things.

[72] Then we should.

[73] Then we should.

[74] Then an onlooker, my guess.

[75] You were traveling at great speed and you saw us walking down the street.

[76] Yeah.

[77] You go, that was there.

[78] Nothing going on together.

[79] You got to dig a little deeper.

[80] Look at his cup and everything.

[81] Oh, we get knick -knacks.

[82] We get sent knick -knacks, which is lovely.

[83] Let me tell you what's going to happen now that you're...

[84] Oh, nope.

[85] Should have done that?

[86] Wait, what's wrong?

[87] Well, that's going to heat his water up.

[88] Oh.

[89] So that's for coffee.

[90] But you might like hot water.

[91] I do prefer room temperature water.

[92] Oh, okay.

[93] I didn't know that, though.

[94] I didn't know that.

[95] I'm not going to take credit for that because I had no idea.

[96] But now this is a genius invention.

[97] I had a like two second flashword fantasy to him having poured that.

[98] And then we get caught up talking.

[99] He hasn't taken a sip for 20 minutes.

[100] And now it's at 135 degrees.

[101] And just the reaction that he might have when there's fucking coffee temperature water in there.

[102] That would have been funny.

[103] a good prank.

[104] And now it turns into hot ones.

[105] Yeah, exactly.

[106] Yeah, we're trying to capture the success of that.

[107] We make her get drinking increasingly hot water.

[108] I did just buy kettle as an arrived yet, but for that reason, because I like hot water.

[109] There we go.

[110] I asked Monica, before you got here, I said, is this going to be triggering for you?

[111] No, because Indian people.

[112] The history being when she was younger and like Indian things would be in pop culture, she'd be like, oh, stop.

[113] I don't want to talk about this.

[114] I was born here.

[115] I grew up here in Georgia.

[116] Very white, very southern.

[117] Very white.

[118] So I was doing my best to be white.

[119] When Bendett like Beckham came out, I was horrified.

[120] I was like, oh my God, now people know there's Indian people.

[121] And they're going to make the association that I kind of look like her probably.

[122] So I must not be white.

[123] Yeah, I've been learning a lot about the U .S. Indian experience versus the British Indian experience.

[124] which is so different.

[125] I'm dying to know, so I'm really curious how you would characterize the difference.

[126] There's some hostility note in London.

[127] There has been, I think my parents would have dealt with it the most.

[128] Because that was when they came over, people wouldn't have been able to pronounce their names, and people would have laughed at their accent.

[129] They would just call any subcontinent folks' packies derogatorily, right?

[130] Yeah, that's very accurate.

[131] Yeah, and so I had that when I was in primary school too, in elementary school, grew up in an area that didn't have a lot of Indian people.

[132] Yeah.

[133] And so I was like one of the only Indian people growing up in my school.

[134] And so being called Paki was a very common derogatory term that was thrown around.

[135] And could you rate that out of 10?

[136] So we'll say the N words are 10, right?

[137] That's the nuclear bomb of words.

[138] Where does Pachy fit on there if you're England?

[139] How it sounds like a seven?

[140] It's bad.

[141] Yeah, it's bad.

[142] And of course, it's thrown around at Pakistani people, but it's brought out into anyone, yeah, anyone brown.

[143] Yeah.

[144] But then what happened was that, There was this renaissance of Bandit Like Beckham.

[145] There was DJs, there was Jay Sean Rishi Rich, like that whole culture that came out.

[146] There was all these TV shows of comedians, goodness gracious me. I don't know if you've ever seen that.

[147] No, I have that.

[148] Whenever I show that to my American friends, they're like, what is this?

[149] But for us, it was amazing because it was showing how Indian people were trying to be British.

[150] It's a group of Indian comedians pretending to change their name from the Kapoor's to the Kupers.

[151] Right.

[152] And all this kind of thing, trying to fit in to British.

[153] culture.

[154] And that was amazing.

[155] So there was this whole renaissance.

[156] We're called Asian in England, just to clarify.

[157] But you have the British Asian networks.

[158] You have radio shows.

[159] You have TV shows.

[160] There's just so much Indian Asian culture that is part of London, especially, and England.

[161] I'm not qualified Monica to have a better radar on this.

[162] But that didn't happen until about, I want to say, 10 years ago, Aziz, Mindy, Hussein.

[163] I would say even Aziz and Mindy, at the beginning anyway, they weren't specifically writing anything or do anything that was Indian.

[164] They just were Indian.

[165] And that's what I was also like, okay, if it's written as like an Indian character, I don't want that.

[166] I like actively don't want that.

[167] I just want it to be a funny character.

[168] But now Mindy has never, have I ever.

[169] And now I think she's starting to embrace.

[170] Uh -huh.

[171] Which you too are on a similar trajectory.

[172] I've always been saying my goal for Monica is that year 20 of this show, she's in the full...

[173] I come in a sorry.

[174] Full sorry.

[175] Yeah.

[176] I should have dressed up, and I should have worn my wedding outfit, basically.

[177] Exactly.

[178] Were you hiding from it, like, Monica?

[179] You went to an all -boys school?

[180] That was my secondary school, yeah.

[181] My high school was all -boys.

[182] Is it bougie a little bit?

[183] It's what's called a grammar school, so you have to take exams, but it's not private so your parents don't have to pay for it.

[184] So you get a private education for free.

[185] But a little elevated status -wise?

[186] Very elevated status -wise, yes.

[187] Okay, so when you were there, were you owning it, loving it, and embracing it, or are we just kind of like, this isn't a thing?

[188] It was harder in elementary school because that's when the kids would be like, oh, your food smells funny.

[189] Right.

[190] Or like we celebrated every major festival at our school.

[191] And I remember that one Diwali, my mom had prepped me. She dressed me up in like traditional Indian clothes.

[192] But she'd kind of put me in a half sari, half toga.

[193] Oh, wow.

[194] Big swing.

[195] And I was overweight growing up, so parts of my body are hanging out.

[196] And then I had to go up on stage and sing in my native language, a prayer about, DiVali.

[197] Oh my God.

[198] And the whole school just cracked up.

[199] Everyone was just laughing.

[200] I was like eight years old.

[201] Oh, this is so scarring.

[202] I looked down to, like, read the lines, and I realized that my tears had smudged the paper, so I forgot the line.

[203] This is hard.

[204] Picture Delta, that's a hurry.

[205] That's too cruel to put a kid through.

[206] To top it all off, the teacher comes, puts her arm around me, and walks me off, and everyone's cracking up.

[207] And so I was, I was hiding my Indian culture too.

[208] Well, especially I had an experience like that.

[209] Oh, my God.

[210] That's like the scene from Carrie where they dumped the pig's blood on her.

[211] I mean, that is rough.

[212] It was rough.

[213] Did you resent your mom?

[214] Or you're like, why did you do this?

[215] I did.

[216] I did.

[217] I definitely did it.

[218] I was like, Mom, that no kids should ever have to dress up like that at eight in front of their peers.

[219] Who don't understand it.

[220] Who don't understand the culture and they don't understand the language.

[221] And they can't appreciate the artist.

[222] And I can't sing to top it all off.

[223] So it's not even like I have a good singing voice.

[224] Wait, well, was it Hindi?

[225] It was Hindi or maybe it was even like Sanskrit.

[226] It was like super old.

[227] But my secondary school, I feel like as time went on, there were a lot more Indians at my secondary school.

[228] It was primarily Indian and Jewish.

[229] That kind of makes sense because you got a test into it.

[230] So it's like first generation kids practicing their asses off.

[231] Parents on them.

[232] Here's your opportunity.

[233] And all the lazy white people were like, that's cool.

[234] I'll catch up down the line.

[235] I'll see at the interview process where I'll have the upper hand.

[236] Yeah.

[237] I can phone this in.

[238] So true.

[239] So what's your observation of it here?

[240] Well, I've been learning about it, even hearing about Monica today.

[241] I have a lot of South Asian friends in L .A. as well.

[242] You may even know some of them, but like Pyle Kadakia who founded Class Pass.

[243] Cool.

[244] One of my closest friends, she's amazing.

[245] But she grew up in New Jersey, so I've been learning about what it felt like growing up in New Jersey, which actually has a massive Indian community.

[246] But again, she felt like that wasn't normal.

[247] Like she studied Indian classical dancing And she's told me about how that wasn't seen as the natural way So she became a cheerleader And so I've been learning about it through different friends here Well, it's also so varied Like if you're in England You're looking at the USA as a kid You're like Baywatch or whatever fucking shows, right?

[248] And you're probably thinking of it as a singular place And then the longer you hear you realize Oh, there's the gamut.

[249] Regional racism is so different everywhere you would go You couldn't even say what an American experience is you could say what each individual little town experience would be like.

[250] And we definitely grew up more on US TV.

[251] I grew up watching The Simpsons, Fresh Prince.

[252] What did you think of a poo?

[253] Yeah, it's really fascinating because my uncle was a grocery store in London.

[254] So I actually had an uncle that was pretty much a poo in real life.

[255] And so I was like, oh, that makes sense.

[256] Genuinely, like that was my...

[257] But then the strange thing was when I moved to L .A., which was literally five years ago, I remember going to like a barbershop to get my hair cut.

[258] And the lady sat me down and she was just like, Oh, what's your background?

[259] And I'm like, oh, I'm Indian, but I'm from London, born and raised.

[260] And she was like, oh, I didn't realize Indian people sounded like you.

[261] And I was like, what do you mean?

[262] And she was like, I've only ever seen Apu in The Simpsons.

[263] That was five years ago.

[264] Five years ago.

[265] Five years ago.

[266] And she's in L .A. And she's in L .A. And she's in L .A. Oh, my God.

[267] That's, uh, she doesn't just moved you.

[268] Yeah.

[269] But to me, Apu is normal because I had an uncle who is Abu.

[270] So, yeah, I think what's tricky is, obviously, that's based in some reality.

[271] but the exploitation of that character of him being the butt of the joke all the time, that's the part where it breaks out.

[272] Well, it's pretty layered.

[273] When we had Hank Azarian on and he talked a lot about it and his reaction to all of it has been pretty worth modeling.

[274] Agreed.

[275] It really took his time, really went and talked to tons of people, took years before he responded to the criticism.

[276] But with all that said, there's also the layer that there's a white guy doing it.

[277] Yes.

[278] Right?

[279] Yeah.

[280] Intrinsically, it is a character.

[281] You could step back and go, like, well, everyone's blasted.

[282] So Homer Simpson's the epitome of the lazy white dad.

[283] The cop is the epitome of the bumbling, stupid, overweight cop.

[284] Everything is a parody.

[285] So why on earth would the Indian cast member be exempt from that?

[286] But you'd then hope, well, at least they would get an Indian actor.

[287] And I think it's really interesting because of how parenting works.

[288] So I feel like, apart from that episode that we just discussed, I don't think my parents made me feel that being Indian was an advantage or a disadvantage.

[289] So I don't really think I ever got any context from my parents about the color of my skin or their journey to get there or any background or story.

[290] Did they all emigrate there?

[291] So my mom was born and raised in Yemen.

[292] Okay.

[293] But there was just a big Indian community in Yemen whose parents originally came from India.

[294] And then when Yemen got its independence back from the Brits, my mom moved to England to keep her British passport.

[295] She moved to England when she was 16 years old from Yemen, like after the war.

[296] Like she was studying for her exams while they were Yemeni.

[297] soldiers on her roof, like fighting with Brits soldiers.

[298] Shooting it out.

[299] Yeah.

[300] And how about dad?

[301] And so my dad was from India.

[302] He moved to England when he married my mom a bit later.

[303] As I've become more and more knowledgeable about the Indian experience, also learning all these different pockets.

[304] Yeah, Kenya had a big public.

[305] Yeah.

[306] My wife's parents are from Uganda.

[307] Oh, they are?

[308] Yeah, from Uganda.

[309] There's a big community there.

[310] So, yeah, there's Indian pockets all over.

[311] And they all have different experiences.

[312] They speak different languages.

[313] They have a completely different view of family culture.

[314] And so like you're saying, in America, you've got all these pockets of Indian culture.

[315] But I felt like I grew up with very little context.

[316] And so I felt like my identity has always been something that I've been molding separately of any predispositions.

[317] I would say that's how your parents were.

[318] She wasn't urged to...

[319] Oh, no. There was very little talk.

[320] I mean, now in retrospect, I can see more that it was around.

[321] Like, my grandparents would pray.

[322] And my dad, too.

[323] And that was a thing that was just existing, I guess.

[324] But it wasn't like, and this is how you do it.

[325] It felt a little secular, yeah?

[326] Oh, yeah.

[327] And my mom grew up in Savannah, Georgia.

[328] So she was also already, it is super nice, but it's also very white and rural, and especially at that time.

[329] And so she also was, like, removed to an extent, which made the whole thing kind of secular, I guess you would say.

[330] Yeah.

[331] So were you handed a religion?

[332] Yeah, so my parents were both Hindu growing up, and I would say they practiced it in a very ritualistic, rigorous way, but not in a deeply religious way.

[333] So they practiced it more like, oh, that's what we do on Saturday or Friday.

[334] They don't know why.

[335] They don't know the depth of it.

[336] And I grew up praying and I grew up seeing the various gods that we worshipped and thinking I had to do certain things on certain days.

[337] But again, it wasn't a central pillar of our family.

[338] It was just something that you had to do.

[339] Right.

[340] And so for people who don't know your story, you go to business school, you're at business schools.

[341] There's a visiting lecture.

[342] It's a monk talking about selflessness and you're pretty taken by it you follow this guy around the rest of his tour that brings you into interning down in india at a harry christ i was gonna wear my but it didn't fit with my valentine's theme i was into this punk rock harry christina band when i was a teenager cool shelter oh yeah do you know shelter i know i know ruggedna get out yeah oh my god i don't know him personally just as a 17 year old i went to their shows when they were in detroit all of my favorite merch from that era was all the shelter stuff because it's all Harry Krishna's stuff.

[343] So anyways, yeah, you were interning right for three or four summers.

[344] What was that experience like?

[345] Because I don't really know the origin of Harri Krishna or whether it's enveloped by another broader religion.

[346] The source of it is the Bhakti tradition.

[347] So Bhakti is translated as devotion and devotion to the divine, devotion to humanity, devotion to service.

[348] But is it an offshoot of Hinduism originally?

[349] Hinduism kind of came later from a term that was developed by man after the books and everything were written.

[350] So if you look at the Vedas or you look at the Bhagwad Gita, which is the primary text of the Hindus, the word Hindu doesn't exist in that text.

[351] So you won't find it in spiritual literature.

[352] You'll find it in geographical terminology and religion and the breakdown of that.

[353] I got you.

[354] And so the particular process of Bhakti tries to quote the scripture, which is beyond a breakdown of, oh, a certain group of people who grew here or followed this religion.

[355] So the Bugwood Gita is the shared text.

[356] The Bugradita?

[357] The Bhagavad Gita.

[358] Yeah.

[359] Bugavad Gita.

[360] Yeah.

[361] That's going to be a tough one for you.

[362] Which means the song of God.

[363] I'm struggling with the English words I was taught, so yeah.

[364] So Gita is song and Bagua is God.

[365] How long ago was that written?

[366] So it was spoken over 5 ,000 years ago.

[367] Okay.

[368] And then put into written form probably over the last couple of thousand years.

[369] But even that is not like the Bible, right?

[370] It's the equivalent.

[371] Would you say so?

[372] Yeah, we considered the equivalent.

[373] My dad's always like, it's there.

[374] It's kind of the book.

[375] What would he says the book?

[376] He would say that is the closest thing, but it's not the same as the Bible where it's essentially like an instruction manual.

[377] Well, a history, a prescriptive way to live.

[378] Commandments.

[379] He says it's just like a story.

[380] That's actually a really great observation.

[381] The Baguad Gites is a conversation between a warrior and God.

[382] Arjun is the name of the warrior and Krishna is God or the divine or the universal godly aspect in this conversation.

[383] and God happens to be the charioteer of Arjun and there's this big battle that's about to take place and the battle is because of all of Arjun's family wants to take over all the land and they're considered the evil family and Arjun's on the side of good and Arjun's like I don't even want to have this fight you can have all the land I just want to be at peace I'm just going to go meditate I'm okay I don't need any of this stuff take it all he's flipping the script and he's an extremely talented archer He's phenomenally gifted.

[384] He could blast guys all we want.

[385] He has unbelievable focus.

[386] Oh, we love it.

[387] This is the ideal man. This is what Stutz said.

[388] Have great power and don't use it.

[389] Yeah, exactly.

[390] The dream alpha.

[391] Yeah, so he's in that position.

[392] And then Krishna's encouraging him and saying, actually, well, if you don't fight, this is going to negatively impact generations for years.

[393] Oh, boy.

[394] If they come into power, they're going to destroy the future generations of children.

[395] They're going to abuse women.

[396] It's going to be extremely violent.

[397] Like, this is going to lead to the...

[398] Counterintuitive for God.

[399] Absolutely.

[400] This is all flipped.

[401] The warrior wants peace and God wants to throw down.

[402] And it's going to degenerate society.

[403] And so you're fighting for righteousness.

[404] You're fighting to protect.

[405] So don't fight for your ego.

[406] Don't fight for land.

[407] Don't fight for being in power.

[408] Fight because you're good and it's your duty as a fighter to protect the people.

[409] And so that's what the Bhagat Gita is.

[410] Your dad, his observation is accurate in the sense that it is equivalent to the Bible in its hierarchy of text.

[411] But it isn't in terms of it's not a list of rules.

[412] It's a conversation about Urgen saying, I'm doubting myself I don't think I can fight I don't want to hurt anyone I think peace is the ultimate goal isn't it and then Krishna's kind of guiding him through what is the ultimate goal what is the ultimate sacrifice Christian's a consequentialist Correct Wow Correct yeah so it's a really fascinating I love justice so much Yes You come by it honestly Come from a warring people Your God wants war Yeah So did the other gods Yeah Okay so you go do these internships, when you then decide to become a monk, which you then subsequently do, why not go the Krishna route?

[413] Why'd you end up in the Vedic world?

[414] So no, so the Vedic...

[415] These are all the same thing.

[416] They're the same thing, yes, correct.

[417] In the history of this podcast, I've never broached the subject I know less about.

[418] It's good.

[419] I love it.

[420] Actually, it's nice talking to someone who may not have lots of context because then you get to talk about it in its most bare bones version.

[421] You got to explain to me like I'm four years old.

[422] Yeah, rather than this philosophical, like, heady concept, which kind of goes over everyone's head anyway.

[423] Well, again, you can, You almost lose sight of what it was.

[424] It can be simple and pure, and then it gets obstructed and convoluted.

[425] Monica's dad, which isn't common for a lot of Indian families, like he's obviously sat with it.

[426] For him to have that observation is him saying, well, actually, it's not that.

[427] And so the Bagua Gita is part of a bigger epic called the Mahabharat, which is this massive text.

[428] So the Bhagat is like 700 verses.

[429] The Mahabharate's probably 10 ,000 or something like that.

[430] In pages, what is this?

[431] Oh, gosh.

[432] I don't know.

[433] It's a 45 -minute conversation in reality.

[434] but it turns into this book.

[435] Okay.

[436] And so I practiced in the same tradition.

[437] And so I was going there because when I went to India, I got to see a very authentic, ancient practice of what may have been more modernized in the West through the tradition and the practice of how it's practiced in the U .S. especially.

[438] And so when I was with Gorongadas, who was the monk that I learned under, when I got to see him practice, like he comes from a traditional Indian brominical family, but he went to IIT, the Indian Institute of Technology.

[439] Okay.

[440] He was meant to go off and begin.

[441] become like an IT guy and he was in the same year at university as Sunda Pichai, the year of Google.

[442] That's the kind of people he's studying with.

[443] My aunt went there.

[444] Really?

[445] And he'd given it all up to become a monk.

[446] So I was blown away by how did you live the Indian dream, which is I'm going to go and leave India to work for Google, right?

[447] Like that kind of trajectory at the time to then become the richest man in the world.

[448] Yeah, to become, yeah, to become an engineer and go and work at a big tech firm in Silicon Valley, which is what your parents probably wanted of you.

[449] But you actually let go of that, and you became a monk.

[450] I was more fascinated by him as an individual than I was by anything else.

[451] I do wonder often how much people are responding to an individual.

[452] Weeding out what's the individual and what's the thing they're talking about is very tricky and interesting.

[453] And even as we learned a bunch about the Bible the other day from another guest, coming to find out that maybe Jesus was Paul, who never met Jesus, but wrote all the stories.

[454] stories.

[455] And it's really the book that's carried on for 2 ,000 years, which is curious.

[456] And then you start wondering, is it the author of the stories or is it who the stories are about?

[457] Who really had the power to sustain 2 ,000 years of interest is kind of curious.

[458] So I don't know, for you even at this juncture, when you think of him, what percentage of it do you think was the knowledge he had and what was just his character?

[459] I'd say that initially it was an attraction to a human being because at the time I was reading like David Beckham's autobiography I was reading...

[460] How's that good?

[461] It's actually really good.

[462] I actually learned so much like imagine by 16 year old self and I'm reading about David Beckham and he's saying that all of his friends when he was 16 or 15 were going out and partying or drinking and he was at the park hanging a tire of a car in the top of a goal post and just trying to practice scoring reading that as a 16 year old was like, pooh.

[463] Both things are like excluding all earthly desires in pursuit of some goal.

[464] Exactly.

[465] So there was usefulness in that.

[466] I was reading Dwayne the Rob Johnson's autobiography.

[467] I was a massive wrestling fan.

[468] Okay, great, great, great, right.

[469] So this is like WWF and WWE days.

[470] I'm talking about my 15 -year -old self.

[471] And then I was reading, my dad was giving me Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. So I was had this really broad spectrum of humans that I was fascinated by.

[472] And when you interviewed me, I had the same curiosity about you, and it carries over to this today.

[473] which is, can you remember your motivation?

[474] That list of people you just mentioned seem different.

[475] They're not at all.

[476] They're really high status male heroes.

[477] And so, you know, one did it by soccer, one threw guys off of top rope, one guy made great speeches, you know, whatever.

[478] So I wanted to be special at that age.

[479] And it was some weird kind of ego -driven desire to be very special.

[480] And was yours that, or was it somehow purer than that?

[481] No, I'd say it was similar.

[482] I wouldn't even say I had that grand ambition Like, I don't think I believe that I could be that special.

[483] I just wanted to make it through to my parents' expectations of, like, I went to a good school, I got a good job, I did okay.

[484] There was a hidden dream I had of being a rapper because I loved Eminem.

[485] And so I was a massive Eminem fan.

[486] And when Eminem, at the end of Lose Yourself, looks into the camera and goes, you can do anything if you set your mind to it, man. I was like, oh, he's talking to me. Like, I'm that guy.

[487] So there was the feeling of, like, I meant for more, but I don't know what that is.

[488] And maybe it just means ticking my parents' boxes and that's good enough.

[489] And so there's that kind of...

[490] How old are you?

[491] He's two weeks younger than you.

[492] Oh, I'm 35.

[493] Oh, my God.

[494] It's a bummer, right?

[495] I didn't think you would take that well.

[496] I don't like it when people come in here who are younger than me just so you know and who have done a lot more.

[497] That's not even true.

[498] Oh, it's true.

[499] It's true.

[500] Yeah, I saw that and I did the math and I was like, yeah, he's got you by two weeks.

[501] Yeah, he's fast math.

[502] So you're a Virgo, too.

[503] Yeah.

[504] Yeah.

[505] Fast math.

[506] You're a Virgo, fast man. There's a lot happening, Dwayne the Rock Johnson.

[507] Yeah, I was 18 when I met the monk, but I'm doing much.

[508] Just coming up to that period, my 16 -year -old self wanted to be a rapper, if you asked me, but I didn't really think that was possible because I had Indian parents who believed that I had to have a safe, stable job to pay the bills.

[509] So I don't think I actually ever believed that it was real or that it would happen, but at least it made me feel good during my teen years of doing cool stuff on the side and, like, recording and hanging out, and I played the drum kit growing up.

[510] I'll have one downstairs.

[511] I can't play anymore, but I'll try.

[512] I'll show you what I've got left.

[513] I'll show you what I've got left.

[514] But there was that element of like, this is fun, but then I'm going to have to get to real life because that's where my parents have told me. You have lots of extracurricular activities only to one day have to let go of all of the stuff you love to have a safe life, right?

[515] Which is the Indian setup, at least, that I grew up.

[516] Oh, for sure.

[517] And so having said all of that, I think what happened was when I met the monk, he was the first person that changed that perspective completely from either of those.

[518] What I would have seen in that is great bravery.

[519] Yeah, I agree.

[520] I would have been like, that's impossible to resist all that.

[521] I'm seeing bravery, and I aspire to bravery.

[522] Correct.

[523] And I saw in him, I was like, I can't believe you could have been the top of the game at what you thought you were going to do, but you let go of that, and you seem really happy and self -assured.

[524] That doesn't make any sense to me. It just completely drove a train through my life's path because it was so random.

[525] The day I went to hear him speak, I said to my friends, I'd only go if we went to a bar afterwards.

[526] Like, that's where I was at mentally.

[527] I didn't even want to go.

[528] Yeah.

[529] And I had the same feeling as you did.

[530] You know, you'd meet Indian saints and sages at your, maybe local temple, or at your friends' home or a wedding, or...

[531] It was never an attractive thing to me. Like, it wasn't like, oh, these people are really cool.

[532] It was kind of like...

[533] Like, what's happening here.

[534] Yeah, what's happening here.

[535] They're Amish or something.

[536] Like, this whole fashion.

[537] When we let go all this.

[538] Exactly.

[539] But I still spend time with him when I go to India.

[540] He's just so cool.

[541] Like, he's just so cool.

[542] He's a gangster.

[543] Yeah, that's what I would call him.

[544] Yeah, yeah.

[545] He's got so much swaggy.

[546] He's so cool.

[547] He's so confident.

[548] It's a shame he's not fucking, because he would do so well, it sounds like.

[549] He's been a month for 30 years, I think.

[550] It's in 30 years.

[551] And so, yeah, he just had that.

[552] And then I would follow his schedule when I lived with him.

[553] So he'd wake up at like 2, 3 a .m. Because he'd wake up even earlier.

[554] We'd meditate together.

[555] He'd read scripture with me and help me study and understand it.

[556] I would be like, oh, even reading the same book?

[557] Like, that's how I'd feel sitting with him and studying.

[558] And he just had this very open.

[559] He wasn't trying to get me to do anything.

[560] He was just putting on display how he lived, right?

[561] Did he have money?

[562] He didn't have any money.

[563] Okay, so how did he live?

[564] So the way the temple setups in India are, that it's all funded by donations.

[565] Okay, okay, okay.

[566] The monks sleep on the floor and live very simply like he wouldn't have access to anything personal.

[567] All his possessions fit into a gym locker space.

[568] I mean, obviously he was on a speaking tour when you met him.

[569] Yeah, so he actually came over because one of his teachers had to have an operation and the operation could only happen with a doctor in London.

[570] So they'd come to support their teacher and at the same time had been asked to do some speaking engagements and events while they were there.

[571] So they weren't even there for that reason.

[572] Is this an accident, really?

[573] Yeah.

[574] He's spoken to the UN.

[575] He's done a fair few things, but he doesn't have a speaking fee or he doesn't have an appearance fee because he doesn't have any money to his name.

[576] That is amazing.

[577] But it's a culture of India that a holy person is supported by donations.

[578] Like the BBC.

[579] I kind of like that success is not measured by their money.

[580] Things get tricky when that starts happening because then you might say things you don't believe in order to get more of that.

[581] Like, there's just a lot there.

[582] Yeah.

[583] I think it's interesting because of the cultural aspect of people giving in charity in India, it's just so drilled in.

[584] They don't even need to ask and they're not using it for anything personal.

[585] They have access to communal cars to take them to places but they don't drive a car or they don't choose the car they buy.

[586] It is none of that.

[587] In a lot of ways, it has to be insanely liberating.

[588] Yes, that's right exactly.

[589] You have nothing to lose.

[590] You have no fear of loss.

[591] And I could see some real purity coming out of that.

[592] Yes.

[593] Okay, so you did it.

[594] You did it for three years to catch everyone up to speed.

[595] So you went and you lived as a monk.

[596] So now here we get into the Vedic.

[597] So Vedic is the term I've used because Vedic is the overarching term that kind of houses all of these philosophies of whether it's Hinduism, whether it's Hearduchna, whether it's Bhakti.

[598] And the reason is because I find that in the West, we have very specific views of certain parts and traditions.

[599] It's almost like it's an opportunity for me to educate people about the Vedas.

[600] We know about stoicism or the Stoics.

[601] I'm very attracted to that.

[602] Which I am too, and I love it, but not many people know about Vedic teachings.

[603] And they're 5 ,000 years old and they're incredible.

[604] And this conversation with the Gita can teach people for millennia.

[605] But we don't know about it.

[606] So I kind of have taken it as my responsibility to want to share these ideas.

[607] Yeah.

[608] And therefore, using that terminology that links to the text that I studied, allows me to share that.

[609] So it's an intentional conscious choice.

[610] I can imagine doing what you did, right?

[611] So you lived on a yoga mat and you lived with other men and you were celibate and you did all the things we stereotypically think a monk does.

[612] But I'm just imagining myself in that situation and I'm definitely still cracking jokes.

[613] Like, is humor still on the table?

[614] I'm so glad you said that.

[615] When my monk teaches next here, I would love for you both to meet him.

[616] Oh, God, yeah.

[617] And I think being in his presence, you start to realize just how childlike someone is at 70 years old, He would just laugh and joke about anything and he'll look for that and it was so funny like we had a snorers room and a non -snorers room and we'd all laugh at all the snores and we'd be like oh that one sounds like a Harley Davidson I remember that there was a group of us that we'd sometimes fight over like these special sweets that were made that were only offered to the deity or whatever but then they'd be offered to everyone else we'd have like joky wrestling fights about these things like there was a lot of playfulness because I could live without a lot of the things I've grown accustomed to you couldn't live without playing.

[618] I'll be honest and say that when I did it, I was so saying to myself, I'm just going to practice this the way it is in order to get the desired result.

[619] I'd locked into the mindset of saying, I don't want to go there and waste time.

[620] I want to do this because I'm committing to practice this properly because I believe that enlightenment, mental mastery, emotional regulation, and death of the ego and service to humanity is on the other side.

[621] Well, and it's important to note that you had the intention of being there forever.

[622] Correct, yes, when I chose to be.

[623] So it's not like you were like, I'm going to go do three years there, then get on the speaking tour.

[624] If I wanted to make it into a speaking tour, I would have filmed it, I would have vlogged it.

[625] I would have had so much amazing content if that was the desire.

[626] I have like two pictures of taking of them.

[627] Like, one guy farted on accident where everyone's laughing hysterically.

[628] Like, that's what I need to see is like some kind of bodily hijinks.

[629] That's hilarious.

[630] It sends everyone into a round of laughing.

[631] Oh, my gosh.

[632] There was comic moments.

[633] I remember one morning we were traveling in South India and we're on this pilgrimage and so we're living in a room with maybe like a hundred monks.

[634] So I wake up late and there's like a hundred monks meditating around me and I'm like, oh, God, I woke up late.

[635] So now I'm dealing with the guilt of I woke up late and the shame of like, oh, everyone's probably looking at me and I'm feeling really bad about myself, which is all not what you're meant to do as a monk.

[636] And then I'm like, where's the showers?

[637] And they're like, oh, the showers are 200 meters in that direction.

[638] And it's raining outside, like pouring.

[639] And I'm like, oh, God, all right, I've got to get out there.

[640] So I roll my robe up.

[641] I start running.

[642] It's like muddy.

[643] My feet are all getting away.

[644] I'm like, what's the point of getting a shower?

[645] I get to the showers, and now I realize they're open -air showers.

[646] There's just water falling from the sky anyway.

[647] Yeah, you're stepping out of full -blown monsoon into lesser water coming out of the spot.

[648] And so there's just so many moments like that that I can look back and laugh at.

[649] Yeah, yeah.

[650] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[651] We've all been there.

[652] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body -age, sudden fevers and strange rashes.

[653] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[654] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[655] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

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[660] What's up, guys?

[661] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[662] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[663] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[664] And I don't mean just friends.

[665] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

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[667] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[668] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[669] I think playfulness and childlikeness, like I found that the 70 -year -old monks, the Dalai Lama's like this too.

[670] I'm just only saying him because I think people have had some exposure to him.

[671] I have an issue with him.

[672] Okay, yeah, no, no. And I don't know him personally.

[673] I think when you can pay him to go sit invalidate.

[674] the nexium sex cult leader.

[675] I think that's a big fucking issue.

[676] Of course.

[677] Just throw that out there.

[678] Well, that's the whole thing about that's when money does start coming into play and can sort of obscure some of the purity.

[679] I want to draw a division between him and what you're saying because I'm really into what you're saying.

[680] People know how I feel about that whole thing.

[681] I think he's a deity.

[682] I don't think human should be deities.

[683] I don't think you should have a fucking city to your own.

[684] I don't think you should be worship.

[685] So I would hate for anyone to have been jaded by what I've said about him to then conflate it with what you're saying.

[686] Thank you.

[687] Better figure would be Tick Nhat Han, but he's not alive anymore.

[688] So Tick Nhat Han is a famous Tibetan Buddhist monk who wrote beautiful books, incredible human being.

[689] I never met him.

[690] I just interacted through his work.

[691] Anyone who spent time with him would always tell me he was like a child in the best way.

[692] That's what I was trying to get like.

[693] You get that childlikeness when you're around somebody who's 70 years old and you're like, how?

[694] But they have that naivety in a healthy way like a child does.

[695] One of my sales pitch to people when they're considering getting sober, when addicts are wrestling with the notion of their future without this substance they've had for 30 years, my greatest sales pitch to them is, I can promise you you'll literally return to 12 years old.

[696] Like, do you remember being 12 and waking up and just being absolutely excited to be a part of the day?

[697] Before all the other stuff got involved, that can return, and I experience it on most days.

[698] So it would only make sense to me that, yes, then even the further you'd get you'd be more approaching, that original enthusiasm would be a human on planet Earth.

[699] Yeah, absolutely.

[700] There's this activity I do when I'm sometimes, speaking or working with a group of people and it's called the 30 circles test it's basically a white piece of paper i don't know who came up with it but it has 30 circles on it and everyone gets one and then the instruction is you have 30 seconds to uniquely fill in the 30 circles and that's the only instruction i can give and then you put 30 seconds on the time and the timer starts going after 30 seconds i usually ask people i'm like i'm going to predict what i think you did one two three four five six seven exactly yes so check and half their hands go down everyone's wait what So they just will write one, two, three, four, because they'll each one will be unique.

[701] Interesting.

[702] The second thing, another guess, what else do you think people do?

[703] The alphabet.

[704] Oh, the alphabet.

[705] People write the alphabet.

[706] People write the alphabet.

[707] People do zigzags.

[708] Squiggles, zigzags are very popular.

[709] Some people would get creative with emojis or maybe pizza slices or baseballs.

[710] And then you start getting to the grips with it and you start realizing that as adults, we lose that fresh eyes.

[711] Now, they've done this same test with 10 -year -old.

[712] 10 -year -olds, 10 -year -olds have done some phenomenal stuff.

[713] So they do all this individual shading.

[714] And then when you ask them what it is, they say it's top of a chessboard.

[715] So like it's the tops of the pieces.

[716] Or another girl did some really light shading on the corners.

[717] And they asked her what it was, and she said it's bubble wrap.

[718] And like, you know, she's like pressing on it.

[719] And so you start realizing how as we get older, we lose that fresh eyes, that curiosity.

[720] We're learning machines and we're efficiency masters.

[721] And we're trying to get everything done as quickly and efficiently as possible.

[722] and then you just get great at going to the quickest solution, which would be 1 through 30.

[723] And we saw this in the monastery because we'd do a walking meditation pretty much every day, if not at least once a week, and we'd be asked to look for a new stone or a new flower, depending on what day it was.

[724] And so what my mind would do is be like, I found a new flower today, I'm going to find a new one for tomorrow as well, so I'm ahead of it because that's how you're learning AI.

[725] And then the next day they'd flip it to look for a butterfly, And you're like, oh, man, like I had two flowers.

[726] And so you start noticing how we do that to get ahead of the game, impress the teacher, all the same psychology that we struggle with.

[727] But there, it's exposed to you.

[728] You know, in school, if you were one step ahead, you'd probably get the right answer.

[729] And the monastery, if you were one step ahead, it was usually the wrong answer because it was about being present.

[730] So you couldn't, you couldn't be one step in.

[731] I'd love to be tricked like that nonstop until I just stop trying to figure out the right thing.

[732] Yeah, that's the goal, right?

[733] It's like eventually you just succumb to just being present.

[734] Yeah.

[735] Yeah, it's so weird.

[736] Some part of me is so skeptical of just everything.

[737] I'm kind of cynical.

[738] And so it's like when I think of going and why someone would do it, I'm trying to poke all these holes in it.

[739] Yet, both when I talked to you the last time and then researching you this morning, I was like, I think I'd love to do it for a year.

[740] The notion of having no tricks up my sleeve that I'd be worthy of any attention or love without all this shit I've been working on for 48 years is scary and sounds liberating and brave.

[741] Yeah.

[742] And by the way, I don't think the cynics.

[743] or the skepticism even ever left me. Like, do I think all spiritual paths are perfect?

[744] And even the path I practiced is perfect in every way and doesn't have any shortcomings.

[745] Of course not.

[746] There's some pros and cons.

[747] Absolutely.

[748] Like, there's parts of how it's practice that I don't subscribe to.

[749] There's parts of how it's taught that I don't subscribe to.

[750] And by the way, I probably feel that way about even what I do.

[751] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[752] There's parts of what I do that has pros and cons.

[753] It's really hard to live in a world and say that there's a perfect ideology or there's a perfect teaching or proponent of an ideology.

[754] There's so many flaws and discrepancies individually, collectively.

[755] Well, I was going to say, yeah, it undercounts the huge variety of humans.

[756] Correct.

[757] There's not a flavor of ice cream everyone's going to like.

[758] Exactly.

[759] I've always tried to keep a healthy view of, hey, what can I learn from this?

[760] What can I gain from this?

[761] What don't I subscribe to and what don't I vibe with?

[762] And then now I can live a life of collecting my identity and collecting myself and curating rather than a life of, oh, I'm just this one thing and this is who I am.

[763] I feel completely in love with the life I lived as a monk, but I feel completely in love with being married to my wife.

[764] And I feel completely in love with doing what I do on media.

[765] Like, I'm quite in love with a lot of areas in my life, which are very paradoxical.

[766] Sure.

[767] But I'm okay with that, because to me, that's more authentic to who I actually am.

[768] Whereas if I wanted to appeal to everyone, I'd have to choose one identity.

[769] You love Beckham, you love Eminem, and you love this monk.

[770] Yeah, and Malcolm makes in my little bit.

[771] I was reading this.

[772] This research recently, which, I mean, may not be mind -blowing to you, to me it was, because I'd never really thought about it.

[773] But it was talking about how, obviously, we know we live in this binary world.

[774] And it was talking about how even black and white TV is mostly gray.

[775] And the idea that black and white TV, that's what we call it, to label it.

[776] But actually, it's just lots of speckles and pixels of gray that makes you see a black and white screen.

[777] And the idea that that's life, life's so much more complex and nuanced.

[778] Yeah, and we're not wired to be attracted to that.

[779] No, we're not because it's complicated.

[780] It's scary, yeah.

[781] We strive for definitive truth and definitive.

[782] Or lazy labeling, I like to call it.

[783] It's easier to say monica is a Indian person from X, Y, Z, than it is to say, oh, but she's this and that, and that, and that.

[784] Yeah.

[785] Well, and also, it's a tough sell to say to somebody, this solution will make you 66 % safe.

[786] Which is the truth.

[787] Like, at any given scenario, you get the money, the house, all this stuff.

[788] You might be inching your way up to, like, 70 % safe.

[789] Well, and then it's like, what is safe?

[790] What does it even mean to begin with?

[791] Is it emotionally safe?

[792] And then there's a pandemic.

[793] You die of COVID.

[794] You know, whoa, I didn't see that coming.

[795] I ran 10 miles a day.

[796] Are your eyes blue?

[797] So I've been told they change color.

[798] Wow.

[799] Depending on where I am or what I'm wearing.

[800] But blue and green are usually the closest.

[801] But I've been told over time that they naturally change because of how life works.

[802] And the only person with crazier eyes than him, because his eyes are fucking insane.

[803] Yeah.

[804] They're beautiful.

[805] Are his wives.

[806] Really?

[807] Are they also blue?

[808] No, his wife's eyes are...

[809] What?

[810] What are they?

[811] We got to get a picture of it.

[812] Let's see here.

[813] Is she Indian?

[814] Yeah, she's Indian.

[815] I told them this on the podcast.

[816] I said, look, we were talking about intentions and knowing people's intentions and being aware of them and accepting them and maybe not being threatened by them.

[817] But I said, I do think it's relevant to know people's intentions.

[818] And I said, so if I came to your house, I would be giving your wife 110 % of my attention.

[819] I would very much want her approval because she doesn't look like a human and she will get it to you because she's a wonderful human being and you are charmed, so there you go.

[820] Wait, how did you mean her?

[821] So I was in my last six months of college and I knew I wanted to become a monk.

[822] So I'm still a student, but on the weekends I would serve at my local temple to stay out of trouble.

[823] You don't want distractions.

[824] And as soon as you make a commitment going, I'm going to be a monk in six months, all the distractions stand up.

[825] Of course.

[826] Like, it's like a universal game.

[827] Temptation.

[828] Yeah, temptation.

[829] So I was like, all right, let's be safe.

[830] So I went there and a woman came in who was about my mom's age and I was asked to show her how to do some services around the temple, some rituals and things like that.

[831] I've never been asked before this day.

[832] I was never asked again.

[833] And at the end of it, she says to me, oh, I have a daughter that I'd love to introduce to spirituality.

[834] Oh, my God.

[835] And I said to her, oh, well, I'm going to become a monk in six months, but I'd introduce you to my sister who also practices and would be a good connection for her.

[836] So that woman happens to be my wife's mom.

[837] Wow.

[838] And she brings her daughter to meet my sister and I'm there to just connect them to.

[839] I see my wife and I'm like, oh, no. Yeah, I'm like, oh, no, you're so studying.

[840] Oh, wow.

[841] Yeah, it's pretty preposterous, isn't it?

[842] Wait, I don't understand how both of you have eyes like this.

[843] I know, I know.

[844] I've never seen an Indian person without brown eyes.

[845] Yeah, my sister has brown eyes too.

[846] Isn't that actually impossible genetics -wise?

[847] Her grandma has blue eyes, like bright blue eyes.

[848] and she's Indian, and I don't have it in my family, so I'm an anomaly for sure.

[849] Wow, because it takes two recessive genes.

[850] I'm very confused.

[851] That's amazing.

[852] Wow.

[853] Do you guys have children?

[854] Not yet, no. But wow, oh my God, can you imagine those eyes?

[855] Well, like an alien family?

[856] I mean.

[857] Can you imagine?

[858] They're going to have just regular brown eyes and be so bad.

[859] What are this girl?

[860] Wow.

[861] Did you get her approval?

[862] I've never met her.

[863] I just was like I was just making a point.

[864] And I've only met Kristen digitally, too, so it's not for us.

[865] Oh, you have?

[866] We've never actually, I've interviewed her a bunch of times.

[867] We've done so many events together online, but we've never...

[868] Both of us inordinately attracted to Indian folks.

[869] So Kristen will definitely be wanting your approval as well.

[870] Yeah, she loves Hussein.

[871] Where does that come from?

[872] Yeah, and she loves Riz Ahmed.

[873] I love this.

[874] I think because we're two see -through white honkies from the north, so we didn't see that.

[875] The skin's so beautiful to us.

[876] It's just like, wow, what is this brown?

[877] Monica, how does that feel?

[878] How much power you have in this...

[879] I know, it's really, I'm using it.

[880] Yeah, yeah.

[881] She's had Bell and I on the run for eight years now.

[882] Yeah.

[883] I love that.

[884] You know, it's an interesting thing, too, when I was growing up, because I was overweight, and because people didn't think I was attractive and was bullied for it a lot and things like that.

[885] And then I remember one auntie who said to me, I was like nine years old.

[886] She was like, Jay, the only thing nice about use your eyes.

[887] Like, physically...

[888] But Indians are harsh on each other.

[889] Indian aunties, man. Indian aunties are...

[890] They are...

[891] Monica was telling me. and some stories too, which I had a hard time believing, but her grandmother.

[892] Who I love and she loves me so much.

[893] Once I overheard her talking to her sister about my looks, and I was also like 10 or something.

[894] And it was not, it was not, it was brutal.

[895] You can relate.

[896] I feel really happy in this room because I've had a point of, you know.

[897] And guys, I think it extends over to Egypt because I've been watching Rami.

[898] And the way Rami's mom talks to both kids is just so fucking brutal.

[899] It's like, look, you're not going to get by in your looks.

[900] So you're the truth.

[901] Yeah, it's very blood.

[902] Yeah, very blunt.

[903] Okay, so you thought only your eyes were going to get it done.

[904] When you hear that as a kid, you almost start hating that thing.

[905] Because you think you have so much more to give or you're like, there's more to me than this.

[906] But I'll argue this.

[907] The best thing that can happen to somebody, because you're fucking gorgeous.

[908] Yeah, objectively.

[909] You're like, you're objectively gorgeous.

[910] That's going to be one of my criticisms about your book.

[911] I'm not going to.

[912] We're going to dance later.

[913] We didn't have any mirrors in the monastery.

[914] I feel like that was the first time in my whole life, especially as a teenager, all you do is look in the mirror the whole time.

[915] Going back the other way and not looking in a mirror, I would find myself, when we'd be on the streets, I'd be looking for like a reflection because you just hadn't seen your reflection.

[916] And it was designed intentionally so that you'd have to go inward and that you wouldn't have an external distraction.

[917] But that really played with me for a long time because even now, I'm looking at my reflection all the time.

[918] And so you watch yourself on camera or video or whatever it may be.

[919] I'm pretty good at avoiding it.

[920] Monday and Thursday, I got to go through a big stack of photos that Rob has taken.

[921] And I go, oh, yeah, yike.

[922] I got to try to find one I'm not totally depressed about.

[923] Exactly.

[924] And post it.

[925] And I'm like, oh, I wish I didn't have to do this.

[926] But that's also been somewhat liberating for me, too.

[927] Because at first, when all these pictures would come, I was like, I sent so many emails.

[928] We got to get different angles.

[929] I need something high.

[930] I can't.

[931] Like, I hate this so much.

[932] Yeah, it ruins your day.

[933] It's the first thing in the morning.

[934] You got to post.

[935] And then at some point, I was like, it's not.

[936] not going to change.

[937] This is it.

[938] This is it.

[939] And now I'm like totally fine posting all these pictures.

[940] Yeah.

[941] Like it's fine.

[942] But you're still on the upswing.

[943] Like I'm on the backside.

[944] So the pictures are getting worse.

[945] No. Yours are still getting better.

[946] Sorry, Rob.

[947] Horrible.

[948] It's not your fault.

[949] It's not the subject.

[950] The guests always look gorgeous.

[951] I'm like, I can't even pick which one.

[952] Honestly, I know.

[953] I'm like, is it because they're on that side?

[954] I mean, I think the pictures always look great.

[955] Like I was very excited for my picture with both.

[956] No, he's a very good photographer.

[957] It's iconic now.

[958] It's iconic.

[959] Yeah.

[960] I had one single last question about the monk experience, which is the decision to leave, I imagine, for me, would be really complicated.

[961] I would be thinking of what people were going to say when I returned home.

[962] I'd be thinking what the monks were going to think when I bailed out.

[963] It would be very hard for me to not think everyone would have a judgment of this decision.

[964] That was me. That was a six -month decision.

[965] Now I often hear, oh, Jay, like, this is really cool.

[966] You had this experience now, you talk about it.

[967] And I'm like, it was never cool when I became a monk.

[968] When I went off to become a monk, my family was like, you're wasting your education, you'll never make money again, you've let your parents down, no one will ever marry you.

[969] I don't want my children to become monks.

[970] Yeah, of course.

[971] And so I'm like, oh, now they're right.

[972] And by the way, when I came back, I was applying to all the companies that I would have worked at anyway.

[973] And I got rejected from 40 companies because, surprise, surprise, no one wants an former monk as an employee.

[974] It's like, what's your transferable skills?

[975] Like, being silent and, you know, like being still.

[976] I can sleep in the non -snoring.

[977] Exactly.

[978] And so now everyone's judgment's true.

[979] So it's not even in your head anymore.

[980] It's validated.

[981] It's like, oh, Jay, we told you.

[982] And now all your friends are renting nice apartments and getting homes or they're in a serious relationship or they got promoted and now they're making this much money and you're behind.

[983] So coming back was exactly what you said.

[984] I was worried about what the monks would think.

[985] I was worried about what my parents would say.

[986] I was worried about what my parents would have to hear from the Indian community.

[987] I was worried about now my school friends that have lost touch with what are they going to be doing?

[988] Were you nervous you would have a harder time relating to them socially?

[989] I remember, I didn't know who the Prime Minister of England was, I didn't know who won the World Cup.

[990] I didn't know how to do small talk anymore.

[991] So when I finally got a job 10 months later after I came back, after doing tons of interviews and everything, I went to the networking event for the new company that I joined and the networking event was pizza making.

[992] I'm like, what am I going to say?

[993] That train journey in, I was so.

[994] nervous.

[995] Because I hadn't made pizzas.

[996] It's 10 years ago now that I left.

[997] So I felt very normal again.

[998] But it was depressive is the truth.

[999] I was depressed.

[1000] If I were you, I would have felt like I had now made myself a part of nothing.

[1001] Yeah.

[1002] And I felt like I got divorced.

[1003] You need community and now you really don't have one.

[1004] No. And especially when you think your community also looks down on you.

[1005] Yeah.

[1006] And you feel a bit excommunicated.

[1007] Even though the monster made me feel that.

[1008] It's all in your own head anyway.

[1009] Of course.

[1010] No one's really has that much time to think about all this stuff.

[1011] apart from you.

[1012] It was the worst, but that was this really interesting period in my life where I was like, I have learned every tool to deal with this mental state.

[1013] That's kind of why you were there.

[1014] But when I came back, I forgot everything and I dropped back into all my habits.

[1015] I woke up late, I slept late, I caught up on how I met your mother, I listened to Drake, I ate chocolate every day.

[1016] I was doing everything that I would have done.

[1017] When Sid Arthur goes to the city.

[1018] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[1019] You just completely forget.

[1020] And then, it was like a couple of months later where I was like, wait a minute, I know how to deal with this, but I've got to allow myself to practice monk teachings while not being a monk.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] Like I have to allow myself to do that and not think that that was just for the ashram, that it was something special, reserved, and that's what kind of helped me. Why did you leave?

[1023] Like, what was the impetus?

[1024] There was a bunch of - You got horny.

[1025] I mean...

[1026] Well, that's fair.

[1027] No, I wish that was the reason.

[1028] The honest truth was my health took a hit.

[1029] sleeping communally, A, I'm a light sleeper, B, my immune system with the types of far and meditations we did was like really dropping.

[1030] And I was pushing myself to see like, well, how far can I fast?

[1031] Like the ego of it too.

[1032] It's almost like you're trying to overcome ego, but then you're playing to your ego.

[1033] Right.

[1034] And so I was pushing myself to limits that I shouldn't have been and my health was really deteriorating, which obviously deteriorates your willpower to continue on with something difficult.

[1035] Yeah.

[1036] And then on top of all of that, I was just like, I have to share this with my friends back in London.

[1037] I have to pass this on because I just feel like it could help people.

[1038] And I'm a bit of a rebel anyway.

[1039] I'm quite independent.

[1040] Living a communal life requires a lot of sacrifice.

[1041] It requires a lot of deconstruction of your own identity.

[1042] And I don't think I want that type of a life.

[1043] And that's where I come back to saying, I realized I wasn't a monk.

[1044] Yeah.

[1045] And that's okay.

[1046] Like, I'm cool.

[1047] Like, I tried.

[1048] I learned some phenomenal things.

[1049] I built an amazing discipline.

[1050] Ultimately, you're outsourcing your agenda.

[1051] You're turning yourself over to someone else's plan.

[1052] I don't know that I want to go through life executing someone else's plan, even if it's a benevolent plan and I trust the person.

[1053] So I had this exact conversation with my teacher.

[1054] Jay said, well, actually you called me my monk name at the time, but he was like, Ganasham, it's a traditional Indian name.

[1055] And so he said, if you went to a college and you became a professor, or you went out and you became an entrepreneur, or you went out and got a job, which would be considered better?

[1056] I said none of them they all seem like great options and he goes well that's all you're doing you came to college you got your degree you're moving on don't judge your choice it's not a failure it's not a failure he was like some monks are going to stay here and become professors that's awesome I didn't see it that way yeah you just needed to be framed that way yeah I'm sure that was a gift he gave you did I need to hear that okay so you come back through a many different series of events you start getting very good at digital media you're into things that get Ariana Huffington's attention.

[1057] She hires you to do a bunch of videos for Huffington Post.

[1058] You write Think Like a Monk.

[1059] It's the number one New York Times bestseller list.

[1060] You're also building this very big social media footprint.

[1061] You become a life coach.

[1062] This part I don't really understand.

[1063] How does one become a life coach?

[1064] I'll track back a bit.

[1065] As soon as I met the Monk when I was 18, in the summers I would go and Christmas holidays, I'd spend time with him.

[1066] but I started a club or society at university called Think Out Loud, where I would teach what I was learning from the monks.

[1067] So I started doing that almost immediately.

[1068] And so I would start teaching anything I was learning.

[1069] And usually I would take a Hollywood movie.

[1070] I'd break down the psychology, philosophy, and spirituality behind it, and break down characters because I loved it.

[1071] And then I was doing events in London.

[1072] So when I came back from the monastery is when I trained to be a life coach.

[1073] So I went to a life coaching school where you do a qualification.

[1074] We now have my own school.

[1075] So I now certify life coaches.

[1076] It's a full 100 -hour program that people have to commit to.

[1077] We have a dean of the school that helps people learn and practice their hours.

[1078] No, so coaching and therapy are different.

[1079] And the way I break it down, so everyone I coach has to have a therapist.

[1080] That's part of my rule.

[1081] And the reason is because I believe that therapy helps you make sense of your past and coaching helps you build your future.

[1082] And I think together they make a really good recipe for a healthy life.

[1083] They work really symbiotically.

[1084] And so anyone that I coach has to have a therapist.

[1085] And it's part of my prerequisite because I'm not qualified or skill.

[1086] to do what the therapist does, but at the same time, coaching is far more about setting goals, moving forward, building the life you want, creating a community that you care about, getting to a place that you want to be.

[1087] Okay, so I hope that in the last hour you have felt, and I hope you felt that the first time we talked, that I have great love for you, genuinely.

[1088] What I love about you, and I appreciate that you use the word love, I really received that.

[1089] That means the world to me. I see that you're a beautiful person, and I am attracted to you, and I think you're lovely.

[1090] You're very sweet.

[1091] But I just want to say that as a precursor to say, I'd also like to dance.

[1092] Yeah, let's go ahead.

[1093] But I want you to feel that I respect you immensely.

[1094] Because there are some things like life coach on the surface for me is triggering.

[1095] Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do it.

[1096] You know what I'm saying?

[1097] So one thing is a belief of mine, and it comes from AA, which is I'm never going to tell somebody how to live.

[1098] All I can do is if you ask me how I got to A, B, or C, I can tell you what happened.

[1099] Now, you could take that or leave that.

[1100] There might be some things that you find useful in there.

[1101] but I only believe in sharing my story.

[1102] I don't believe in proselytizing.

[1103] People have offered us insane sums of money to write a book on how to have a great marriage because Kristen and I represent something to some people just would never do it.

[1104] I am allergic to advice.

[1105] I'm allergic to people who think they know how other people should live.

[1106] I believe in someone sharing how they live and that being appealing.

[1107] So first of all, I would say that my role in people's lives over the last 10 years is I've taught people mindfulness, I've taught people meditation, I've helped them with relationship challenges, I've helped them with performance challenges.

[1108] And what I found is that coaching was a methodology and practice that is really healthy because ultimately what a coach is meant to do is not meant to tell you how to live or how to tell you how to make choices or decisions, but to help you make sense of what you're trying to do.

[1109] So a coach's job is far more to listen to someone and help them formulate and make sense.

[1110] Pull out the relevant things, help them get rid of the clients.

[1111] clutter.

[1112] Correct.

[1113] Rather than, like, for example, a common question that I would ask, which I think is a very important question that anyone could ask themselves, is what's something that you deeply value that you've been devaluing recently?

[1114] That would be a coaching question.

[1115] And that would allow the person to tell me what they value and what they believe in.

[1116] And what I find is a lot of coaching work is really helping people figure out their values.

[1117] So actually, the greatest skill I gained from learning out a coach is I don't project my belief system on to anyone because I realized that they're operating from their own drive and their own...

[1118] They have different goals.

[1119] And I need to help them figure out what they are because most people are not aware of why they chose what they chose, including their house, their partner, their job.

[1120] We just never been trained in understanding decision making.

[1121] People don't maybe feel like they have the ability to create the options they want.

[1122] Correct.

[1123] And I would say like in any industry and I struggled with even using the word coach in my title when I first did it because the coaching industry has somewhat of a bad reputation too because like pretty much everyone claims to be a coach people throw around the title people haven't actually done the training there is official training yeah sounds kind of more mentorship in some way yeah the difference between mentorship and coaching is mentorship is when you have a subject matter expertise and coaching is you don't have a subject matter expertise apart from the methodology of coaching if someone wanted a podcasting mentor they could come to both of you you could mentor a podcast because you guys have a successful podcast and you could teach people how to interview and how to listen to people I had a friend recently who actually wants to be a movie director and I said to him, I said, I think you need to get a coach and he was like, but that coach should have made movies, right?

[1124] I was like, no, no, no, you need to get a coach to get you disciplined to get you writing an hour every day or two hours every day who gets you out there and networking.

[1125] A coach is going to help you build the habits to change your life to get to the point you want to get to.

[1126] They're not going to teach you how to get a movie directed because that would be a mentor who knows how to direct movies.

[1127] I love that we're having this conversation because I think these terms are just thrown around and people don't really understand the difference and this is one of the first lessons we do in our school is we teach the difference between what's a mentor, what's a coach, what's a therapist, and how you're not trying to be all three.

[1128] Well, and then my greatest character defect is very at play in my cynicism towards it, which is in my household growing up single mother three kids, her working Midnight's agenda, the number one quality you could have would be self -sufficiency in independence.

[1129] Like this is what everyone needed to be.

[1130] they need to handle their own shit.

[1131] And so that's how I would show you, I love you.

[1132] That's how I show my partner.

[1133] It's a fucked up love language.

[1134] But, you know, that's how I am.

[1135] So the notion of employing someone else to tell you how to do something is like, no, no, no. Either I got to figure it out on my own or I don't deserve it.

[1136] That's a great mindset that one can start with.

[1137] But if you find yourself stuck in a position for like three years, five years, 10 years, you've achieved a lot in your life.

[1138] Probably you've figured stuff out.

[1139] Probably get much more if I ask people for help and guidance.

[1140] Yeah, maybe.

[1141] And I allowed myself to be mentored.

[1142] I couldn't humble myself enough to...

[1143] Well, you did for sobriety.

[1144] I mean, that's what you ended up doing, and it saved your life.

[1145] At the threat of my life, I was able to humble myself enough.

[1146] Yeah, the sponsorship system, in my opinion, is phenomenal.

[1147] My friends or people that I know that have been through it, calling up your sponsor in a moment of weakness, a moment of difficulty.

[1148] That, to me, is a great setup for what we're trying to say.

[1149] Yeah, two things.

[1150] Again, now, my joke version is, you writing a book on Eight Ways to Make Love Work, is a little bit like Bill Gates writing a book on how to do great at a math test.

[1151] Well, let's start with being a genius.

[1152] You're gorgeous.

[1153] So your opportunities and romantic love, you're very well spoken, you're outgoing, you're really attractive.

[1154] Part of me's like, are you allowed?

[1155] Could you pop?

[1156] Truly!

[1157] I love it.

[1158] This would be like the Walton children from Walmart writing a book on acquiring wealth.

[1159] That needs to be addressed in my opinion.

[1160] A lot of people that cannot find and or maintain or get in a healthy romantic situation, don't have every option available to them.

[1161] It's fucking hard.

[1162] So I don't know, I don't know how you think about that when you're sitting down to advise someone.

[1163] Do you recognize your personal experience might be vastly different from 90 % of the people that read the book?

[1164] And I think this is why this is such a great question because going back to what we were saying earlier about how we like to make people deities and we like to make people idols.

[1165] And that's why I made myself a coach because I was like, then I can avoid the title of a guru.

[1166] The reason why I consciously decided never to wear anything, that remotely was meditational clothing was I want to stay as far away from the idea that Jay is a spiritual coach guru guy who's going to save me. I wanted to avoid that.

[1167] Yeah.

[1168] And by the way, when I started my work, I had no idea where I was going to go to.

[1169] Of course not.

[1170] As I saw that, I was like, okay, I've got to be really mindful because I don't want to start a cult.

[1171] I don't want to have a temple.

[1172] I don't want to have worship.

[1173] And I don't want to create disciples.

[1174] Like, that's not what I'm trying to do.

[1175] What I'm trying to do is to present three forms of wisdom and the intersection of those that I don't think exists in the world.

[1176] And so I basically bring together my three fascinations and that's what I'm sharing.

[1177] So whether I'm writing a book called Think Like a Monk or whether I write eight rules of love or any other book I write in the future, my goal is not to teach from my experience.

[1178] My goal is not to teach from how I've loved and how I've received love.

[1179] My goal is to teach from three areas.

[1180] So the first is ancient wisdom.

[1181] I am fascinated by anything.

[1182] old.

[1183] There's a beautiful quote from Ivan Pavlov where he said, if you want a new idea, read an old book.

[1184] That's always fascinated me. So that forms a pillar of my work.

[1185] I believe that everything I'm trying to excavate is timeless and it's already been known.

[1186] But I want to go as far back as possible.

[1187] And for me, the Vedas are my reference point because I studied them as a monk.

[1188] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[1189] I did a Vedic cleanse to deal with my psoriotic arthritis.

[1190] Oh, I didn't know that.

[1191] Puncha karma.

[1192] Yeah, yeah.

[1193] I've done puncha karma.

[1194] It's painful.

[1195] It's really bad.

[1196] Have you done it before, Monica?

[1197] No, I haven't.

[1198] All right.

[1199] It's an experience.

[1200] And so, you know, I'm driving fucking 40 minutes today.

[1201] Did you take it up the, uh.

[1202] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1203] Coffee enemas, the whole night.

[1204] What I can a thousand percent recognize is you're looking at records that have been kept for 5 ,000 years.

[1205] And if you keep records of the health of people for 5 ,000 years, you're going to fucking see patterns.

[1206] Now, you don't really have to have the explanation for it.

[1207] And I don't need to get involved with you telling me why it's working, but I do believe over 5 ,000 years of observation, they've figured some shit out.

[1208] Absolutely.

[1209] And that's how I embraced that.

[1210] Yeah.

[1211] So that's one big pillar of my work, right?

[1212] Like, that's a massive pillar.

[1213] I'm not saying, oh, this is the wisdom I realized, I'm enlightened.

[1214] I'm not doing that.

[1215] I'm saying there are these texts that I've had a lot of time to study.

[1216] I studied under the greats.

[1217] I'm going to try and extrapolate that for the modern world, which I do have a context of.

[1218] I've had a job, I've had parents, I've struggled for money.

[1219] I know what that feels like, so I can relate to that.

[1220] You went to bars, you were in college.

[1221] Yeah, I can do that.

[1222] The second part, which is really interesting to me, is pairing that with modern scientific research.

[1223] In your book, you're quoting tons of psychiatrists and data.

[1224] Correct, because I grew up thinking you had to be spiritual or scientific, Eastern or Western.

[1225] And my thing's like, I'm right in the middle.

[1226] I even grew up in London, like to me, being Indian in London, now living in the U .S., I have this really global view.

[1227] At this point, I've lived in moments.

[1228] by London, New York, and L .A., obviously big cities, having granted that, but very different experiences.

[1229] And I love modern science.

[1230] I'm fascinated by it, but I'm fascinated by, does it show, does it prove some of the ancient wisdom is true?

[1231] What it can do is actually explain the mechanism for the observation they already know.

[1232] So a beautiful example of this is everyone today is fascinated with circadian rhythms.

[1233] Everyone has to wake up, they have to look at the sun, they have to take in the sunlight.

[1234] Andrew Huberman.

[1235] Exactly, and I love Andrew.

[1236] If you get enough light exposure, you're going to be able to sleep better at night, like all of this science, right?

[1237] Andrew's awesome at it.

[1238] I mean, Andrew spoke about this on my podcast.

[1239] He knows this because he's looked at Vedic and Eastern teachings too.

[1240] He's fascinated by symbology and stuff.

[1241] And we were talking about how Suria Namashkar, which means sun salutation, is a eastern practice in the morning of yoga where you wake up and you pay respects to the sun.

[1242] Like, that is the first thing you do in the day.

[1243] And as monks, that's what we did in the day.

[1244] That gets your circadian rhythm going.

[1245] Now, that may not have been the explanation, but it has the same effect.

[1246] Yeah, they didn't know what it was happening biochemically, but who cares?

[1247] Or maybe they did, but the point is that they saw value in how that impacted their health.

[1248] I'm trying to find the intersections and the discrepancies between ancient wisdom and modern science, and I've overall found more synergy than I have debate, at least from my thoughts.

[1249] And that's my bias, too, for sure.

[1250] And then the third thing I do is I add a bit of pop culture because I love pop culture, I love mainstream media, I grew up watching every major American TV show.

[1251] I have a complete correlation with everything we have in this city.

[1252] And I add habits, strategies, and steps to practically apply it.

[1253] Yeah, a lot of actionable steps.

[1254] Actionable steps.

[1255] Yeah.

[1256] If you look at those three pillars, or maybe even four now, adding the strategies and steps, none of it is me saying, hey, I figured it out.

[1257] It's me curating and researching.

[1258] You're reporting what you've found.

[1259] And I'm happy being a reporter.

[1260] And then you're doing some synthesizing.

[1261] Correct.

[1262] I'm doing a lot of synthesizing.

[1263] I'm doing a lot of connecting the dots.

[1264] and I'm doing a lot of practical strategy steps and how do you actually practically apply this in your life so that it actually works in your average day.

[1265] So I'm trying as much to stay away from teaching through my own life and the only reason I share stories from my own life in the book or anywhere else is almost to point out that me and my wife don't have a perfect relationship because like you, in a different way, I get the projection from others.

[1266] Relationship goals, hashtag, all that kind of stuff.

[1267] And so I'm only telling stories to be like, is we fight all the time.

[1268] I find my wife really annoying.

[1269] Yeah, she's gorgeous, but that doesn't help when we're having an argument.

[1270] Right.

[1271] And just I want you to know that I'm not even trying to present the idea that I'm perfect.

[1272] But there is such a desire in the human mind for God.

[1273] And I'm not saying I'm that person, but I'm saying that we're so trying to find perfection in everyone else.

[1274] And I'm just trying to say, please, please, please, I'm not.

[1275] I'm like trying harder and overcompensating.

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] What is the main loop you two get stuck in?

[1278] My wife's deepest love and joy is her family who are back in London.

[1279] And my deepest joy is my purpose, which currently exists in L .A. That's stressful.

[1280] Yeah, it's stressful.

[1281] And I love my wife and I want her to be happy.

[1282] And she loves me and wants me to be happy, which means we've realized that spending time in different countries for longer periods of time has had to be the way we love each other and respect each other.

[1283] Does she need to be escorted to London?

[1284] No, no, no. Okay.

[1285] That was an invitation.

[1286] I was inviting himself.

[1287] I just got it.

[1288] I just got it.

[1289] I don't like the idea of her traveling alone.

[1290] She needs someone to carry her with those eyes.

[1291] Okay, so there are eight rules of love proposed in the book.

[1292] Yes.

[1293] And eight corresponding chapters.

[1294] I'm going to go through them and then I want to ask you about a couple of them a second.

[1295] That's cool.

[1296] So number one, let yourself be alone.

[1297] Does this know thyself before?

[1298] There's that, but there's also, there's a you that exists before a relationship, during a relationship, and after every relationship.

[1299] And chances are you're not going to die holding someone else's hand.

[1300] so you came into the world alone you will leave the world alone that's the deeper kind of underlying message of that chapter of that's just the way it's made so yes we're social animals yes people are amazing yes connection is beautiful but don't forget that there is a singular journey as well and I think so many people lose themselves in relationships and the truth is they didn't know themselves in the first place yeah the only relationship you're guaranteed to have your whole life is the one with yourself yeah yeah and it's the one we ignore the most yeah it's like the highest level of the pyramid but listen I went through the book and I was immediately struck by how regularly you're citing a lot of popular psychiatrists, marriage counselors, couples therapists.

[1301] So yes, you're incorporating greatly.

[1302] I think all the stuff that's emerging and kind of the consensus around relationships.

[1303] And there's almost workshop steps within it, which is really helpful.

[1304] I'm trying to save people time, even if there was, and I would never start this or believe it should be the way done.

[1305] Like, if there was a love school, how many people have?

[1306] the time, the affordability, the access, the discipline and habit training from before.

[1307] It's too much to ask of someone.

[1308] And so all I'm trying to do is go, here's the science, here's the ancient wisdom, here's the practical steps.

[1309] I'm trying to do the work because I have time.

[1310] I have fascination.

[1311] I have passion.

[1312] I have good habits.

[1313] I'm a disciplined individual.

[1314] I'm very productive.

[1315] I'm efficient.

[1316] I've worked on this stuff for years.

[1317] So I'm like, if I can save someone time, that's a good thing.

[1318] In my head, at least, is how I see it.

[1319] And I'm up for debate on that.

[1320] Well, and the original premise of your book is this is, this is not.

[1321] not something that gets instructed to us at any point in our life, which is so true.

[1322] And it's funny, I'm critical of so much stuff.

[1323] But then myself, the thing I wish everyone knew how to do is a four -step from AA, right?

[1324] This is the one thing I think, like, every elementary school kid should learn how to take an inventory, see who makes them upset, find out their role in it, find out the insecurity that's been triggered, and then work on the insecurity.

[1325] If you could do that, it would save you so much resentment in fucking maze shit.

[1326] And that's what I do in one chapter of five.

[1327] it's like, well, wait a minute, let's figure out what's the root of what you're actually fighting about.

[1328] Let's figure out what you and your partner's fight styles are.

[1329] Okay, let's look at how those fight styles get triggered and why they have those styles.

[1330] And now let's talk about how to schedule a really good fight.

[1331] It's just giving people those very simple steps.

[1332] And so much of it's communication.

[1333] You're regularly reminding the reader, we, we, everything's we.

[1334] Yeah, us and we, not you and me. It's my favorite thing to say to someone I'm working with.

[1335] I've had people I've worked with say this.

[1336] if you actually try and just use us and we and not you and me, it's really hard.

[1337] And that's what's so good about it because it makes you so conscious and intentional.

[1338] And you recognize your own selfishness because you recognize, I can't even sincerely say this because really I want to point out that they're wrong and that they need to change and everything will be honky dory.

[1339] You can't position that as a we statement.

[1340] You can't say, we need to start picking up the clothes more and not making this place a fucking pigs die.

[1341] Exactly.

[1342] That doesn't work if you're not doing that.

[1343] Exactly.

[1344] And then you start asking better questions, like, what can we do to support this relationship that we want, right?

[1345] Or what is it that we're willing to do in order to get to where we want to be?

[1346] The problem with most relationship conversations are they're all attack and defense.

[1347] And so the first thing you say is, well, you don't do this enough.

[1348] Their ego goes up.

[1349] Their defense goes up.

[1350] Now you're having a fight with someone's ego.

[1351] The other ego goes up.

[1352] So you're just trying to get to a place where let's just take the ego out of this.

[1353] But if I say, take the ego out of this, that doesn't help anyone.

[1354] Right.

[1355] And what's anyone going to do with that piece of advice?

[1356] Yes.

[1357] And so I'm trying to just find the switch on my body to turn the eagle off.

[1358] Exactly, yeah.

[1359] Let's just extract that, right?

[1360] And so I try and avoid plateaus and advice like that and go, well, let's build the system of how is the ego showing.

[1361] Did your parents have an arranged marriage?

[1362] My parents had an arranged marriage in the sense that they only met like, yeah, once before they got married.

[1363] And they had a really unhealthy marriage.

[1364] They did.

[1365] Okay, that's why I was going to ask.

[1366] Did they stay together?

[1367] They stayed together and finally separated during the pandemic.

[1368] Oh, wow.

[1369] Congratulations, I guess, to them.

[1370] Yeah, I told him to get divorced when I was 10 years old.

[1371] Uh -huh.

[1372] And I think that I got to see a model of a marriage that one should never have.

[1373] And I think that has led to so much of the work I do today because I feel I mediated my parents' marriage since I was 10.

[1374] I got really good at listening to two people I loved, not judging them, being compassionate, hearing out all their pain, looking for solutions without ever reflecting it back onto them.

[1375] So I've just done that my whole life.

[1376] Totally.

[1377] So it's like that's really where all my work comes from is I've had to sit and listen to two people I love who independently are actually quite nice people.

[1378] Yes, yes, but can't do it.

[1379] I went to chapter seven right away, you don't break in a breakup.

[1380] And I was reading kind of how encompassing now what we would label an abusive relationship.

[1381] And I think it's expanding so much.

[1382] Like when I grew up, it was like, if your husband hit you, that was an abusive relationship.

[1383] And we had a guest recently where I hate admitting this, but I had heard in press she was leaving an abusive relationship.

[1384] and I think I knee -jerk was like, how abusive is she's got the power, but, you know, and then sit down with her talk for three hours and really realize the amount of torment she was under and how one loses themselves and they don't know what's reality.

[1385] And having a lot more respect for how many different varieties there are.

[1386] And when I was reading your definition, which is reported from some of their abuse hotline, how much it's just control.

[1387] And then even reading some of these descriptions and recognizing, I've been guilty of it.

[1388] Like, that's the worst.

[1389] Now I'll try to excuse my behavior as like, when you're in fear, you hope to control somebody so they stop doing the thing that's scaring you and how mild it can be and how extreme it can be.

[1390] But any kind of control and you list all these different ways, you know, whether it's financial or you shouldn't have these friends or you shouldn't wear these clothes.

[1391] There's all these little insidious threads of control and how destructive that is and how you shouldn't try to mend that.

[1392] Yeah, it's a lot more subtle than I think we've thought about it in the past.

[1393] My form of abuse that I had to work backwards from was when I was loved a lot when I was growing up, I was also made to feel guilty for not reciprocating with that level of love.

[1394] And so I found in my marriage I would do that to my wife all the time where I would over -love her and then I would make her feel guilty for not loving me back the same amount.

[1395] That's a form of abuse because that person's like, A, I never asked for this love.

[1396] B, I'm loving you in my own way.

[1397] Now I'm suspicious you only gave me that to receive it, so the whole thing was manipulative from the game.

[1398] Totally.

[1399] And I don't consider myself a manipulative person.

[1400] I don't consider myself an abusive person.

[1401] I consider myself to be caring and loving, but still, there are so many threads of this.

[1402] So that's the kind of stuff that I want people to find because that's the kind of stuff that breaks even a healthy relationship.

[1403] That feels so subtle.

[1404] It's like a hidden weed in your garden.

[1405] But it's like death by a thousand paper cuts.

[1406] And everyone's scared.

[1407] The person, yeah, it's all sad.

[1408] Okay, we don't have time for this, but this is the last thing I really wanted to talk to you.

[1409] you about because a few things have triggered this in my own life that I've been really laser focused on it.

[1410] But have you happened to hear this podcast series on the BBC 4 called The New Gurus by Helen Lewis?

[1411] No, I have not at all.

[1412] It's great.

[1413] Someone sent it to me. I love it.

[1414] And it goes through all these different people.

[1415] You know, you've got your kind of time management gurus.

[1416] You've got your health and fitness gurus.

[1417] They spent a whole episode on Russell Brand.

[1418] Oh, yeah.

[1419] Russell's a good friend of mine.

[1420] He's lovely.

[1421] And he is a guru to people.

[1422] Yeah.

[1423] And there's lines around.

[1424] thousands of people just hope to have a hug from him and then taking him out of it just looking at the path of a popular human being in media and then the appeal and this kind of drive to constantly get maybe more and more and more and how untenable that is and losing oneself and being adored by people in how dangerous that is and just acknowledging to myself well fuck I have some level of all these things what am I doing actively to make sure I don't lose sight of who I am.

[1425] And I was just curious if this crosses your mind, and if you have any mechanisms in place that you're trying to fight off what could be a very slippery slope.

[1426] I would say that I think it's a daily practice.

[1427] Like, I don't think it's something you do once in a while.

[1428] It's something you have to tend to every day.

[1429] The first one I'd say is being married really helps.

[1430] I agree.

[1431] Because my wife does not care.

[1432] Yes.

[1433] And she just about finished my first book.

[1434] She just started listening to my podcast.

[1435] Really quick, you know that Spotify sends a year -end thing most.

[1436] Christens was Andrew Huberman.

[1437] Oh, I love that.

[1438] She posted a picture of it.

[1439] That is really important.

[1440] If you're a single person looking for a partner, that there's no hero worship of the other.

[1441] That's alluring because that's attractive when you find people, quote, above you or status or all these kind of gross things, but they're human things and you're attracted to it.

[1442] It's worth reinvestigating what is happening here.

[1443] And that's probably not the healthiest relationship.

[1444] Absolutely.

[1445] Well, I get asked in media, I think I've said this on here several times in interviews.

[1446] And they're just joking.

[1447] I don't think they mean anything, but like, oh, your wife is so great.

[1448] Oh, yeah, she's so great.

[1449] You just much worship her.

[1450] And I always go like, gross, no. What kind of relationship would it be if I worshipped her?

[1451] Absolutely.

[1452] But I'll tell you where it comes out for me and my wife.

[1453] So I obviously met my wife before everything took off in my life externally.

[1454] You were a bozo.

[1455] You took her out to too fancy of a restaurant.

[1456] They didn't have food for.

[1457] Exactly, yeah, I couldn't even afford.

[1458] You're trying to impressor.

[1459] I was tutoring college students.

[1460] to save up enough money for dates and I was in debt.

[1461] I didn't have a job.

[1462] So my wife chose to be with me when I only had myself.

[1463] And it's really interesting because as my external success started to show, I actually wanted her adoration.

[1464] So I would metaphorically hold up my next award and say, love me for this.

[1465] And she never loved me more for that.

[1466] And I spent a bunch of time actually throwing a thing.

[1467] I was like, does she not love me?

[1468] And it was just ridiculous because really, till this day, she loves me more for being who I am and who I always have.

[1469] Well, as you said, she loves when you take out the trash, when you clean the dishes, when you have acts of love towards her, she loves you more.

[1470] Yeah, when I show up and be the person that she committed to be with, not when I achieve stuff, which I think is the most beautiful reminder.

[1471] So that's one.

[1472] The second thing that really helps me is I was talking to my monk teacher probably a couple of years ago and I was explaining to him some of the coaching work that I was doing without breaking any confidentiality or anything like that.

[1473] He said, you're so lucky.

[1474] And I was like, oh, like, why?

[1475] And he said, you're so lucky because you get to coach people on your problems.

[1476] The idea that the monk perspective was always that if you're helping someone, you're getting to see that disease within yourself.

[1477] It should act as a mirror not to be like, oh, look, I'm helping this person who's so lost.

[1478] It's actually, where am I lost in that same way?

[1479] Or where might I get lost?

[1480] And so I find that the genuine practice of helping has to be a constant practice of reflection of where is this weakness in me, because it also does exist somewhere.

[1481] Yeah.

[1482] And so I think approaching that is really powerful and to have monks who don't care about, like when I go back to the monastery and live in the ashram, which I try and do every year, I'm going into a place where no one cares.

[1483] Like, they don't care what awards I want, how many follows I have, how many views I have.

[1484] Like, they don't care.

[1485] And that's really beautiful to have a community of people, because even my mom's my biggest fan.

[1486] Right?

[1487] But like, you go to someone else who doesn't care.

[1488] This is where it has affected me. When you're experiencing the normal malaise of life and the craving, in the boredom, suffering which is going to happen to all of us a luxury we have is lots of external validation to grab in those moments and it's the quickest easiest solution to the boredom the craving the suffering the malaise and so i have had periods where i'm just leaning on all that so much to avoid discomfort and then of course avoiding dealing with whatever thing would give me actual relief and that to me is the thing i have to police myself about a lot like i can pick myself up at any time if i want with some external stuff of course and they're easy it's like why wouldn't i they're right there and i do think that pattern is what brings a lot of people down that have this great privilege the three of us all have can you relate to that at all yeah i always said to people even when the place we lived in changed.

[1489] If I had an argument with my wife, it doesn't matter what you drive or where you live.

[1490] Every place feels empty and cold because you just had a full -blown fight and now you're feeling distant.

[1491] Like that human disconnection.

[1492] I've been miserable on some very beautiful vacations.

[1493] Yeah.

[1494] Absolutely.

[1495] And that's the reality of it.

[1496] And I think the biggest thing that keeps me going and grounded and I reconnect to is just the work that I set out to do was to give as many people in the world access to the tools that could help them in the way they want to be helped.

[1497] Until I've done that, I haven't really achieved anything.

[1498] Right.

[1499] Because the numbers were never the thing I looked at when I started this journey.

[1500] But for a minute, you can...

[1501] For a minute, like, oh, it's fast.

[1502] Oh, for sure.

[1503] Waves of losing sight, regaining sight.

[1504] It's the difference between also Eastern and Western ideologies.

[1505] Western ideology is before and after.

[1506] Here's where I was.

[1507] Here's where I am.

[1508] Eastern ideology is cyclical.

[1509] It's constantly...

[1510] I figured out, I made a mess.

[1511] I figured out, I made a mess.

[1512] In the monk teachings, it was called like elephant behavior.

[1513] an elephant would go clean itself and then go play in the mud and then go clean itself and play in the mud and like you realize that the mind is always in the mud and then cleaning itself mud and then cleaning itself and the point is to never stop cleaning you're going to get in the mud you're never going to be fully clean the inclination to do something unhealthy negative toxic whatever we want to call it is just percentages shifting it's not binary it's like okay so back in the day my envy was at 100 % or maybe I'm at 73 now yeah yeah but that's still great And I'm just trying to get it to 69.

[1514] Like I'm not trying to get my envy down to zero because that would be ridiculous.

[1515] It's like saying, can you run a mile in zero seconds?

[1516] No one ever in the history of humanity will ever be able to run a mile in zero seconds.

[1517] So if you think that you can never feel depression, anxiety, stress, pressure, envy, ego for zero seconds, it's the same comparison.

[1518] Not possible.

[1519] You will fill it for 0 .01 or one second.

[1520] And that's all you're trying to do is minimize the amount of time that you're obsessing over some at least that's all I'm trying to do.

[1521] Yeah, I really adore you.

[1522] What do you think?

[1523] Yeah, great.

[1524] I know.

[1525] So good.

[1526] I want to honor just what you both did and I'm always happy to dance with you any time.

[1527] And going back to the Baguagirita where we started and even fights in the book, debates and even that battle was all scheduled intentionally.

[1528] It was both were prepared.

[1529] You never ambush someone.

[1530] You never just like blinds, someone.

[1531] You never just went in for an attack.

[1532] That was considered low -life behavior.

[1533] Like, that was considered less than.

[1534] Respect was saying, let's dance, let's debate, let's work through this.

[1535] It was considered cheap.

[1536] And I think we've lost that culture in society where debate and condescending conversation or canceling whatever has just become so free for all that there isn't a mutual respect of even having an opportunity to have a conversation.

[1537] So I just want to honor that because I don't think that's done very often and even the way you presented it as Adam, who I also love presented it in that way.

[1538] really appreciate that.

[1539] I would dance with you anytime on any topic.

[1540] Me too.

[1541] And I respect you so I'm quite certain you're going to have a really good explanation.

[1542] I was dorky in school, so I was on my debate club.

[1543] In my teens, I would just go for it.

[1544] I'm very competitive.

[1545] My debating coach or a debating teacher, whatever it was, sat us down.

[1546] And they talked to me and they were just like, Jay, do you think that's smart?

[1547] And do you think you're winning because of them?

[1548] I was like, yeah, it's great.

[1549] And they were just like, well, a real debater deeply studies both sides.

[1550] They're like a real debater doesn't just go off to the weaknesses that you see, a debater knows the weaknesses of their own and the weaknesses of the other.

[1551] And so there was just a healthier understanding that I gained.

[1552] Of making the best argument for your opponent you possibly could, not a straw man argument, a real earnest exploration of how they might be right.

[1553] Yeah.

[1554] And now what I've realized is I don't even have any right answers to any of the dancing.

[1555] I only have thoughtful reflections.

[1556] And percentages.

[1557] And percentages.

[1558] Well, Jay, this has been wonderful.

[1559] I adore you.

[1560] I hope everyone goes out and buys.

[1561] I can't say that now.

[1562] Yes, rules of love.

[1563] How to find it, keep it, and let it go.

[1564] And also, listen to On Purpose Podcasts.

[1565] It's really, really wonderful.

[1566] It's very, very successful for a reason.

[1567] And you might even stumble upon my interview on there, which was so fun.

[1568] It was.

[1569] Unconventional for you, right?

[1570] We just were chatting.

[1571] It was very unconventional.

[1572] Even this, and this is why you're so good at what you do.

[1573] I want to say it recorded because I said it to you before.

[1574] It was really cool sitting in this seat because I've seen so many pictures.

[1575] And I was saying, because you don't do the podcast on video, there's a special experience in this room.

[1576] Right.

[1577] And now I get to see why you're both so phenomenal at what you do.

[1578] Monica, we have to have you on the podcast.

[1579] Oh, I'd love to.

[1580] I love to.

[1581] And I love everything you've been doing with Liz, and I love Liz.

[1582] And yeah, we have to have both of you guys on.

[1583] Oh, we would love it.

[1584] That would be a lot of fun.

[1585] I'm really grateful for your time and energy.

[1586] This was actually really special.

[1587] Oh, same for us too.

[1588] Like way beyond how I thought it was going to go.

[1589] That was a great, great conversation.

[1590] You know, I walked up this morning.

[1591] I was like, oh God, I'm going to talk to Jay.

[1592] It's just going to be effortless And we would talk for four hours If I didn't shut it down Yeah I love it Great day All right well great having you and good luck And everyone by eight rules of love This word I never got hot Oh no And now my favorite part of the show The fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman Welcome home Thank you Hey before we kick off Can I tell people Because I really would like to reach some folks That I have a new podcast With some of the boys from the pod and Jethro Bovington.

[1593] It's a Formula One podcast called F -1, E -F -F -W -O -N, F -1 with D -R -S.

[1594] That's the full title.

[1595] Got it.

[1596] F -1 with D -R -S.

[1597] And you've got to go search it.

[1598] It's not on our feed.

[1599] It's on its own feed.

[1600] So if you want to check it out.

[1601] And it's us gossiping about our favorite sport, Formula One.

[1602] There's an episode every week.

[1603] If it's leading up to a race, it's our anticipation, what's coming, what race is next, what to look for.

[1604] And then there's a race debrief after every race.

[1605] It's Thursday before every race and Tuesday after every race.

[1606] That's the best way to say it, Rob.

[1607] Thanks for bailing me out.

[1608] It's Thursday before every race and Tuesday after every race.

[1609] So two episodes a week?

[1610] Well, once in a blue moon when they're back -to -back race weeks, but generally it's every other week is the race.

[1611] But yes, sometimes there'll be two a week.

[1612] Got it.

[1613] Cool.

[1614] Yeah.

[1615] You just got back from Austin, Texas.

[1616] I did.

[1617] You did.

[1618] It was a whirlwind.

[1619] Tell me. Because it wasn't a quick trip.

[1620] You were there for three full days.

[1621] Well, I got in Friday at five.

[1622] Oh, you did.

[1623] And then I pulled a Monica and Dax pretty quickly, and I switched hotels.

[1624] Oh, I love it.

[1625] I love it.

[1626] We're hotel brats.

[1627] Well, I wouldn't actually say.

[1628] You liked the place.

[1629] No. I was just fine.

[1630] Oh, no. I didn't like the place at all, but the place is a, quote, nice place.

[1631] So by the time, of course, I went to book tickets and flight tickets and a hotel, I'd waited so long that it was a shock that there were even rooms here because this is a very nice hotel in Austin it's one that a lot of people stay in I think yeah did you see other people yes oh my god that's why like the price was very high uh -huh uh -huh very high and I get there it's so buzzy like there are so many people and I was like huh okay whoa it's downtown yeah and that's also why I picked it.

[1632] I wanted to stay close to the J .W. Marriott, which is where the panel I was on, that's where it was.

[1633] Right.

[1634] And I had a, I didn't, I've never been to South by Southwest before, so I had a feeling like you're never going to be able to get an Uber ever.

[1635] Like, I'm going to have to be able to walk to this place.

[1636] Mm -hmm.

[1637] This is more tactical decision.

[1638] Yeah, but then I was able to get Uber's.

[1639] It was totally fine.

[1640] So, but it was really buzzy, so many people, and I got to my room.

[1641] I just felt, I don't love it in here.

[1642] I just, like, had a vibe, like, David's ghost.

[1643] I just knew it.

[1644] I was like, so I don't like this.

[1645] But, okay, it's okay.

[1646] I don't want to be high maintenance.

[1647] It's fine.

[1648] I'm already paying money for this.

[1649] And then there was this, like, special lounge that I was a part of.

[1650] Oh, my gosh.

[1651] Like on the 10th floor type of stitch?

[1652] Yeah, 35th floor.

[1653] Oh, my God.

[1654] Oh, that's high up in the sky.

[1655] Right.

[1656] So that's where I had to go check in.

[1657] Oh, my goodness.

[1658] Wow.

[1659] Like, oh, this is excited.

[1660] and then it wasn't exciting at all.

[1661] It was, it was, it just felt weird.

[1662] You don't like it.

[1663] I did not like it.

[1664] But I was really trying to push through.

[1665] I went back to that lounge to eat some charcutory.

[1666] And, you know, it felt kind of stuffy and, I just, like, carpet.

[1667] And then I, and then downstairs was like, C &B scene conference.

[1668] Right.

[1669] That I'm super uninterested in.

[1670] Yeah.

[1671] I made a reservation for dinner at a fancy place that I told Rob about.

[1672] And while I was waiting for that, I was like, I'll go get a drink downstairs at the bar.

[1673] I go down there.

[1674] It's so crazy.

[1675] There are so many people.

[1676] Everyone's mingling and like doing a South by Southwest thing.

[1677] And I turned around and walked out.

[1678] I was like, I can't do it.

[1679] But I looked like an idiot because I...

[1680] Did you...

[1681] Was it because there were a lot of people in there and you started getting...

[1682] self -conscious that you were by yourself and people knew you?

[1683] I think it was a mix.

[1684] I think it was a mix of things.

[1685] I love traveling by myself.

[1686] I love it.

[1687] And there are cities that are perfect for it.

[1688] Like New York.

[1689] I love going to New York by myself.

[1690] And I have never felt lonely there, ever.

[1691] Right.

[1692] But five minutes into this trip, I was like, oh, fuck.

[1693] Like.

[1694] I should have brought someone?

[1695] I tried.

[1696] I don't have any friends.

[1697] You have a lot of friends.

[1698] they just are busy with their lives and carrying babies and I didn't plan well enough I guess in that like I asked Erica to come the day before uh -huh uh -huh yeah that's not the kind of heads up one needs though when they have two kids yeah yeah so okay I'll just say one of my best friends was there Liz yeah but Liz and I are so different uh -huh and we have well that's what makes you guys a wonderful pair.

[1699] That's right.

[1700] But we have different agendas.

[1701] And Thursday, I was texting with her.

[1702] And I was like, so what are your plans exactly?

[1703] And she had sent me this list of parties.

[1704] Uh -huh.

[1705] Like a spreadsheet.

[1706] Oh, wow.

[1707] Yeah, yeah.

[1708] And then also some that I could RSVP to have.

[1709] And she was like, I mainly just like go with the flow.

[1710] I, you know, basically like start out at one party and then like get carried on to party to party and party.

[1711] and, like, things just pick up, and it's so fun.

[1712] Yeah.

[1713] I was like, ah, yuck.

[1714] I want to go to the shop.

[1715] I want to shop, and I want to eat food, and I want to sit by a pool.

[1716] Mm -hmm.

[1717] What was the weather like?

[1718] Was it warm?

[1719] It was so nice.

[1720] Yeah, it was hot.

[1721] Yes, it was great.

[1722] Oh, what a nice change.

[1723] So, yeah, and I want to have a martini.

[1724] You know what's interesting I've also noticed about myself?

[1725] So many sidebars.

[1726] I don't drink very much at parties Interesting Yeah There's something happens Like even at Hansen parties I'll like have a drink But I am I am more likely to like Really drink If I'm at a wine bar with Anna Or if I'm at a restaurant I'll have two martinis or something Like there's something about a party atmosphere I'll like hold a drink the whole night Right I don't know why I think...

[1727] It's curious.

[1728] I know.

[1729] Yeah.

[1730] I think it's because I'm like, I want to get out of here soon.

[1731] So I don't...

[1732] Yeah, you're never settling into it.

[1733] Yes.

[1734] Yeah.

[1735] I like to settle in.

[1736] You have some anxiety.

[1737] But did you like parties in college?

[1738] Or do you feel a little bit...

[1739] I liked house parties.

[1740] Do you like the pre -party beforehand?

[1741] I liked house parties at my house, which we threw a fair amount, and they were so fun.

[1742] Right.

[1743] And we drank so much.

[1744] But I, I didn't like, like, frat parties.

[1745] We went to a couple yet, no. Anywho, so I left that bar, back to Friday, left that bar back up even further.

[1746] When I came down from the 35th floor, Eva Longoria was in my elevator.

[1747] She's lovely.

[1748] I've never met her, so I didn't introduce myself.

[1749] Plus, a person from Yellow Jackets, a show I've never seen, but they were talking about it.

[1750] Like she had some friends with her, and they were talking about it.

[1751] And then the elevator opened, and there were, of course, people, so a lot of people with, like, cameras ready.

[1752] Looking to meet some celebrities.

[1753] Yes.

[1754] And then a very nice man asked to take my picture, but then he asked if he could take a Polaroid of us and that I could sign it, which I did.

[1755] Uh -huh.

[1756] And then I felt, why did he want?

[1757] Then I felt weird because I'd done it, but I hadn't really thought it three.

[1758] I mean, it's all fine.

[1759] Yeah, yeah.

[1760] But I just felt...

[1761] Maybe he's got, like, a wall he has of people he's Matt.

[1762] Maybe.

[1763] I don't know.

[1764] I don't know.

[1765] You want something tangible?

[1766] He wanted an autograph, I assume.

[1767] I don't know.

[1768] I just felt like, oh, I just did a thing that I wasn't sure if I wanted to do, but I got kind of like flustered.

[1769] Right.

[1770] And then the bar and I was like, I can't stay here.

[1771] Right.

[1772] It was overwhelming.

[1773] You felt overwhelmed.

[1774] I did.

[1775] Yeah, yeah.

[1776] I felt really overwhelmed.

[1777] And I called the Commodore Perry, which is...

[1778] Your favorite host?

[1779] It is one of my favorite hotels, period.

[1780] I decided that on this trip.

[1781] Yeah.

[1782] We met you there for dinner one time, and it is so beautiful.

[1783] The grounds are so beautiful.

[1784] It's, yeah.

[1785] It is.

[1786] It's so nice.

[1787] It's very quaint.

[1788] It's a little outside of the city.

[1789] It's a lot outside the city.

[1790] Well, 12 minutes.

[1791] Yeah.

[1792] Which in Austin, I guess, is.

[1793] But it just takes so little time to get anywhere there that it was fine.

[1794] Anyway, so I, last minute.

[1795] And they had a room.

[1796] They did have a room.

[1797] And you have some kind of relationship as well there, right?

[1798] I did a talk there last year.

[1799] That's when we were all there at the same time.

[1800] I did a talk.

[1801] It was so fun.

[1802] And they're lovely there.

[1803] Why was I there?

[1804] You were doing something for parenthood, a parenthood reunion.

[1805] Oh, the ATX Festival.

[1806] Yeah.

[1807] That was at the same time.

[1808] It just happened to be at the exact same time.

[1809] Oh, wow.

[1810] Yeah.

[1811] So we were all there.

[1812] Kristen.

[1813] Erica.

[1814] Erica Molly.

[1815] Moles.

[1816] That trip was so fun, and then it, so now it just is reiterated.

[1817] Austin is a place where I need to have a buddy.

[1818] Yeah, that's great.

[1819] New York's fine solo.

[1820] Yeah.

[1821] Austin, buddy.

[1822] Not so much, yeah.

[1823] But I did eat so much food, so delicious.

[1824] I went to Rob's taco place.

[1825] He recommended.

[1826] You own a taco spot down there?

[1827] Yeah.

[1828] I, if you have so many ancillary.

[1829] If you owned that place.

[1830] Oh, my God, I'd be so thrilled.

[1831] Wouldn't you, like, you'd be shocked naturally, but also...

[1832] I wouldn't be shocked at all.

[1833] You wouldn't be that shocked, right?

[1834] I wouldn't be shocked, right.

[1835] Well, I'd be mad because he made me stand in line for an hour.

[1836] Right, right, right, right.

[1837] Because he's like, no favors.

[1838] There's so much mystery around his side hustles that, like, not, wouldn't be shocked.

[1839] I would love for you to open a taco shop like that.

[1840] It's called Nixda.

[1841] Yep.

[1842] It's a Michelin star James Beard.

[1843] It's like...

[1844] Whoa.

[1845] It's also kind of like hole in the wall.

[1846] It is.

[1847] It's not like fancy the atmosphere.

[1848] There's picnic tables out.

[1849] Also, I had so much anxiety.

[1850] Okay.

[1851] So this is the day I decided to wear no pants.

[1852] Yeah.

[1853] So we've been talking about you potentially not wearing any pants anymore.

[1854] There's a no pants trend in fashion.

[1855] And you've been eyeing in, circling it.

[1856] And how many times have you put on a no pants outfit in your apartment to test it all?

[1857] No, this is the first time.

[1858] You ever even tried it and you took it out on the streets.

[1859] Yes.

[1860] I mean, I planned it in my head for a while.

[1861] Like, what am I going to do?

[1862] Which sweater am I going to wear?

[1863] Because there's different ways you can do it, no pants.

[1864] You can do like a long blazer.

[1865] You could do really high boots and a long sweater.

[1866] Or you could do the Kendall Jenner route, which is what I did, which is, I don't know how she does it.

[1867] But Nicole instructed me to do two pairs of tithel.

[1868] Heights, black.

[1869] And then basically briefs, essentially.

[1870] Over those.

[1871] Over those.

[1872] They're like black, itty, bitty shorts, you could say, I guess.

[1873] And then heels and a big sweater.

[1874] Wow.

[1875] Yeah.

[1876] Wow.

[1877] And I loved it.

[1878] Great.

[1879] You felt confident.

[1880] I felt good.

[1881] I did feel, I felt like, wow, I'm doing something crazy.

[1882] A new thing here.

[1883] I'm doing a new thing.

[1884] Yes, yes, yes.

[1885] And I'm by myself.

[1886] Like, this is again, like, this is once I had got to the Commonwealth Perry, so I was a renewed me. Right.

[1887] I thought, okay.

[1888] Oh, so I started to get self -conscious on the plane there because I thought, oh, God, should I be going to some of this stuff?

[1889] People are going to all of these things.

[1890] Liz has a spreadsheet.

[1891] Like, oh, my God.

[1892] And then I texted my friend, Kate, and asked her she was going to be there.

[1893] And she wasn't.

[1894] She said, if you get a chance to go to screens.

[1895] One was called bottoms, and I forget what the other one was called, but they were like two big screenings.

[1896] And I thought, okay, maybe I should go to a screening.

[1897] That would be fun and easy and not a party and whatever.

[1898] Yeah.

[1899] But, of course, it's last minute.

[1900] I haven't done anything to access this.

[1901] So I asked Adam, our publicist, if he could help me get tickets to this.

[1902] And he said, sure.

[1903] And then he connected me with the, like, head of, or like, VP or head of Southby.

[1904] Oh, yeah, Adam Kirsch is so dialed in to both Southby and Sundance.

[1905] That's, like, his main.

[1906] I didn't know that.

[1907] That's his domain.

[1908] That's great to know.

[1909] I didn't know that, but he was like, I'm putting you in touch with Claudette.

[1910] She, like, runs Southby, and I was like, whoa, like, I don't need to be taking up this person's time.

[1911] Also, shout out, Claudette.

[1912] She's an armchair.

[1913] Oh, my God.

[1914] That's so.

[1915] So, so flattering.

[1916] So she got me tickets.

[1917] And that was great.

[1918] Okay.

[1919] So the plan.

[1920] is on Day with No Pants, I thought, I'll get tacos, then I'll go to the screening.

[1921] So I'll be out in my outfit in front of people.

[1922] Yes.

[1923] And then maybe I'll go to a party seeing how I feel after.

[1924] Or I'll go home, whatever.

[1925] The screening started at 9 .30.

[1926] Okay, that's pretty late.

[1927] That's late.

[1928] So I get to the taco line, and I thought, wow, it's long.

[1929] But I feel like it'll move fast.

[1930] And I'm not, I'm being weighed down by any pants.

[1931] I'm nice and nimble light on my feet.

[1932] That's right.

[1933] Yeah, yeah.

[1934] It's a pretty casual spot.

[1935] So everyone's wearing like, not what I'm wearing.

[1936] Jeans and T's.

[1937] Very casual.

[1938] I'm in like prada heels and no pants.

[1939] It's also not the best part of town either.

[1940] That's true.

[1941] But I was just in and out of it.

[1942] So it was fine.

[1943] But yeah.

[1944] So I thought, well, the line will probably move fast.

[1945] It'll be fine.

[1946] I'm in line for these tacos for an hour.

[1947] So I'm, like, cutting it so close.

[1948] And then I panic.

[1949] And I think, I can't get there in time.

[1950] Can't go to the screening.

[1951] So I texted at him.

[1952] I said, I can't come anymore.

[1953] I've been in line for these tacos.

[1954] And then I was panicking because these are picnic tables.

[1955] They're, like, long -ass tables.

[1956] And I thought, what am I going to do just by myself?

[1957] How does this work?

[1958] Do I sit at a table with other?

[1959] people or do I, uh, no, I, I, oh my God.

[1960] And I was getting such, it's getting like flashbacks to the lunchroom.

[1961] Uh -huh.

[1962] Like when you're holding your tray and you're walking around.

[1963] Yes, yes, yes.

[1964] Trying to make eye contact with somebody.

[1965] That's why I never, I had to stop buying lunch because I, I was too afraid to hold that tray.

[1966] Uh -huh.

[1967] So luckily it all worked out.

[1968] By the time I got there, there was a table for two available.

[1969] I ran over there, my Prada heels and no pants.

[1970] Your HP was looking out for you.

[1971] It really, really.

[1972] He, she, it, Dominary really was.

[1973] I hail Pradas, HP.

[1974] So, anywho, the tacos were insane.

[1975] Did you get anything ridiculous, like molten lava cake taco or anything like that?

[1976] No, duck carnitas taco.

[1977] So good.

[1978] cauliflower taco, so good.

[1979] And then I got a bean and cheese taco because I couldn't not get it.

[1980] Yeah.

[1981] Then there was this rice pudding dessert.

[1982] It had like strawberry powder on top of it.

[1983] It was crazy.

[1984] It was so good.

[1985] All to say, my outfit did not get much action because I turned it in early.

[1986] Did anyone stop and chat with you while you were in line or while you were eating?

[1987] No. Okay.

[1988] I think they were afraid.

[1989] Yeah, the vibe wasn't very inviting.

[1990] That girl does not know what she's doing.

[1991] You look like Wednesday there?

[1992] I do.

[1993] Oh, my God.

[1994] I looked so stupid.

[1995] I didn't have anyone to sit with.

[1996] It was so embarrassing.

[1997] I saw your Instagram post.

[1998] You look wonderful.

[1999] I like the outfit, but I looked stupid in that environment.

[2000] No, you look, someone was like, this person's hot shit, but they're down, so they stopped to get these cool tacos.

[2001] They're on their way to something cool.

[2002] Well, that was the plan.

[2003] Yeah, and that's actually what was happening.

[2004] And other people felt it.

[2005] I don't know.

[2006] I couldn't look anyone in the eye.

[2007] Imagine you're at McDonald's, right?

[2008] I love McDonald's.

[2009] And a guy comes in in a tuxedo, and he looks amazing.

[2010] Yeah.

[2011] You're like, fuck, you like him.

[2012] Right.

[2013] This dude's on his way somewhere and it tucks, but he stopped at McDonald's.

[2014] I know, but at McDonald's, you can stop, and it's just so clear you can't stop here.

[2015] Like, this is so.

[2016] This is your evening.

[2017] Yeah.

[2018] So, Rob, when you own that place, please let me just cut the line.

[2019] Deal, deal.

[2020] When you, when you finished, did you consider now hooking up with Liz?

[2021] For like one second.

[2022] And then I thought, absolutely not.

[2023] Yeah, I'm not doing that.

[2024] And then I thought, what's wrong with, I'll be honest.

[2025] Be honest.

[2026] I blame you and Kristen a little bit.

[2027] Oh, my goodness.

[2028] Yeah.

[2029] I was not expecting this.

[2030] I don't want you to be honest.

[2031] No, no. Be honest, be honest.

[2032] Not I blame, but I credit slash blame.

[2033] Okay.

[2034] And it's actually 99 .9 % credit.

[2035] It's 100 % credit.

[2036] Okay.

[2037] Because I've been around you guys for so long and you don't do any of those things.

[2038] Mm -hmm.

[2039] Go to cool parties.

[2040] Yeah, and you don't feel the need to.

[2041] Right.

[2042] Yeah.

[2043] That's just totally rubbed off on me. I just, I kind of want you to.

[2044] have fun at these parties.

[2045] No, but that's the problem.

[2046] I will go to a party if I think I'm going to have fun.

[2047] Like, I went to the party down party because my friends were going.

[2048] That was going to be fun.

[2049] Yeah.

[2050] But I don't have fun at things where I feel like I have to be there or I feel like it's cool to be there.

[2051] But I don't know anyone.

[2052] Like, that's not fun.

[2053] Yeah, I got no rebuttal.

[2054] I don't, I don't enjoy parties all that much.

[2055] I don't think most people do.

[2056] I know.

[2057] I think maybe you're right.

[2058] I do like dancing.

[2059] That's why they're drinking.

[2060] Like, if I can get in the mood to dance and go dancing.

[2061] Yeah.

[2062] Like, I have a fantasy about being in Atlanta this weekend and finding a hip hop club and dancing.

[2063] Oh.

[2064] And that's a real fantasy.

[2065] With Kristen, though.

[2066] She can come or not.

[2067] In fact, I pitched this idea to her and she's like, um, early dancing.

[2068] And I'm like, huh, that's not the hip -hop crowd is not early dancing.

[2069] Like, they're probably starting at 2 a .m. You're going to do that?

[2070] I mean, I want to.

[2071] You like eight hours.

[2072] I want to.

[2073] If you're in Atlanta this week, I'm holler.

[2074] Listen, I am down to meet up for this hip -hop dance experience.

[2075] I feel uncomfortable.

[2076] I'm going to wear one of my jumpsuits.

[2077] Oh, fun.

[2078] And I want to dance.

[2079] So, like, I would do that.

[2080] And I would actually go solo.

[2081] But I can't sit around standing, mixing, chatting.

[2082] It's loud.

[2083] I can't hear.

[2084] I'm yelling.

[2085] And that's why people have done.

[2086] drinks and they get drunk because they're uncomfortable.

[2087] You just got to get shit -faced.

[2088] And I like drinking when I'm comfortable.

[2089] Mm -hmm.

[2090] And I think that's healthy.

[2091] Yeah, I do too.

[2092] You're not doing it as a coping mechanism.

[2093] You're not self -soothing.

[2094] Although I say that.

[2095] And then, of course, I was texting Callie in the line of tacos.

[2096] Because her and I have a long history of talking about the tray in the lunchroom.

[2097] Mm -hmm.

[2098] Because Callie did it once, it was so embarrassing, and she would do it at the mall.

[2099] And I was always like, no, you have to get Chick -fil -A because it comes in a bag.

[2100] And she would get the Ziti on a tray.

[2101] So really, the tray is super triggering for you guys, the actual tray itself.

[2102] Yes.

[2103] Which is ironic because Callie is the one that taught Liz and I about trays for our egg freezing.

[2104] Oh, right.

[2105] That is ironic.

[2106] Yeah.

[2107] She's come to embrace it.

[2108] And we have to.

[2109] Now, let me tell you something about the food court at a mall.

[2110] I like the tray.

[2111] Oh, God.

[2112] I'll tell you what, can I, the analogy I would use is, like, singers who prefer to be holding a guitar, whether they're even playing it or not, or they're just barely playing it.

[2113] It's like something to do with your hands and the cover part of yourself.

[2114] So for me, if I'm walking through like a busy food court, if I'm holding that tray, like my hands are busy, I actually feel more confident.

[2115] Whoa, that is, I just spit everywhere.

[2116] That is so counterintuitive.

[2117] Yeah, you can hide behind your tray.

[2118] No, but trays are so exposed.

[2119] And, like, you could fall and spill it all.

[2120] Like, it's for nerds.

[2121] Yeah.

[2122] I love that you like.

[2123] I do.

[2124] I feel really safe with that tray in front of me. Wow.

[2125] You can chuck it at somebody, like, in a kung fu movie.

[2126] I wonder if you went to my high school if you would have liked, or middle school, if you would have liked it.

[2127] The tray?

[2128] Yeah.

[2129] We didn't have trays.

[2130] I don't think in my middle school.

[2131] Of course you did.

[2132] People who had school bought lunch.

[2133] Even when you got hot lunch.

[2134] It came in a bag?

[2135] No, no. They just hand.

[2136] handed you the plate of the thing or the wrapped up burrito or the pizza.

[2137] I don't I don't remember a big McDonald's size tray.

[2138] It's a normally like because they put your hot pizza on it.

[2139] Yeah I mean that makes sense when you're saying that.

[2140] It's weird to imagine they handed me a hot tin of pizza with my bare hands.

[2141] Maybe we all had oven mitts.

[2142] We school issued Muir's Junior High oven mitts.

[2143] Well there's like sides and drinks and stuff too that would go in the tray.

[2144] Yeah because you have that milk carton.

[2145] I just don't remember the tray, and I feel like they would have been used as weapons in my school.

[2146] But I don't know.

[2147] Maybe that's why they didn't have them.

[2148] You guys lost your privilege?

[2149] Anyhow.

[2150] I remember the name of our janitor that cleaned up the lunchroom.

[2151] What was his?

[2152] Ray Bell.

[2153] Related?

[2154] I don't think so.

[2155] No. But Ray Bell.

[2156] He used to challenge us to fights, Aaron and I. Oh.

[2157] And he would say.

[2158] Like as a joke?

[2159] Yeah, he would just like talk smack to us.

[2160] He was probably like 40.

[2161] Yeah.

[2162] He had like a red afro.

[2163] He was white, but he had a red afro, Ray Bell.

[2164] And he would tell us that if we wanted to fight him, we better pack a lunch because we're going to be there all day getting beat up by him.

[2165] And we'd be like, Ray, we would beat your ass.

[2166] This was the conversation.

[2167] This is cute.

[2168] We'd be saying we're going to beat your fucking ass.

[2169] And he'd be like, you better pack a lunch.

[2170] Oh, my God.

[2171] Yeah, it was a whole thing.

[2172] It was an interesting relationship.

[2173] And he died?

[2174] No, he had a team.

[2175] in his team.

[2176] Janitorial staff?

[2177] Was the special needs game.

[2178] But it was...

[2179] Remember when you thought 90 % of your school was special needs?

[2180] I really did.

[2181] I did.

[2182] You said that percentage.

[2183] No, I didn't say 90.

[2184] You said like 70 % of my school.

[2185] No, you said, you said an insane number.

[2186] Okay.

[2187] We had to look it up in the year, but it was like four kids.

[2188] I agree that I said whatever you're saying.

[2189] I'm saying?

[2190] I said.

[2191] But in my mind, I did.

[2192] I didn't really ever think it was it.

[2193] What I did think was that 10 % of my school was, and it wasn't at all.

[2194] Yeah.

[2195] As we found out when we looked at, unless a lot of them were absences.

[2196] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2197] Jack worked hand in hand with Ray Bell quite a bit.

[2198] Did he get paid?

[2199] No, no, no. See, that's a...

[2200] He was just very strong, and he was in special needs.

[2201] Yeah.

[2202] And so he would lift a lot of stuff for Ray.

[2203] I was special needs.

[2204] That's why I feel like I'm...

[2205] Don't you...

[2206] Hold on a second.

[2207] Truly, I feel entitled to talk about the special ed classroom because I was in it all through elementary school.

[2208] But you can recognize now that right?

[2209] That I'm not.

[2210] You were misplaced there.

[2211] Well.

[2212] You were not, you shouldn't have been there.

[2213] Well, they needed to go somewhere to learn to read.

[2214] Right.

[2215] But that's.

[2216] In fourth grade when everyone had already learned.

[2217] So I did need a little, I need some assistance.

[2218] Like a tutor.

[2219] Exactly.

[2220] You needed a tutor.

[2221] But I guess all on.

[2222] I went to speech class.

[2223] Well.

[2224] Hold on.

[2225] I did.

[2226] I did.

[2227] Yeah, they said I had LISP for a while.

[2228] Oh, I wish you still did.

[2229] I did.

[2230] I did.

[2231] Oh, my God, you both did.

[2232] Like first grade.

[2233] Oh, my God.

[2234] Yeah, they were made it like it was scary.

[2235] I want to take a time machine and I want to pick up Lispy Rob and take them to Lispy Monica.

[2236] And then I'll say, you know you guys are going to work together when you go up and you're going to like, oh, that's neat.

[2237] What are we going to do's?

[2238] We're going to be on the.

[2239] Braves Yeah, you guys both love food Yes, we love food so much You guys are really into food Oh, good Yeah, I don't know who I'm doing Also, my mom I never really think of her as, like, an advocate.

[2240] But I guess she kind of was, because I think she was like, you don't need to be.

[2241] She didn't like that I was in there.

[2242] Yeah.

[2243] Because she was like, I don't understand.

[2244] I don't think she could hear the issue.

[2245] Right, right.

[2246] But they were saying it.

[2247] Now I feel like I have it.

[2248] Well, do you remember having it?

[2249] No, no. Oh, no I'm a little nervous that you just look different and they are like.

[2250] We can't figure out what it is.

[2251] It must be a list.

[2252] They thought they were hearing a list, but they.

[2253] Then they later, they realized like, oh, no, duh, she just, she was brown.

[2254] Yeah.

[2255] Fuck.

[2256] We shouldn't have done that.

[2257] There's no reason.

[2258] I didn't spend much time in the speech class.

[2259] I will.

[2260] Speech pathologist was like, there's nothing, guys, she's just brown.

[2261] There's nothing going on with her speech.

[2262] Oh, okay.

[2263] Well, keep her here for another week and make it seem like she's making progress.

[2264] We got to cover our ass on this.

[2265] This is a ding, ding, ding.

[2266] Okay.

[2267] Because it's for Jay Shetty.

[2268] Oh, okay, great.

[2269] Being different.

[2270] Oh, my God.

[2271] That was so cute, the story he told.

[2272] And it really is a ding, ding, ding, because this is the first time this has happened to me. So I really am growing.

[2273] There was an Asian American pre -Oscar party, and Mindy was there, and she posted a picture, and she's wearing a sari, and it's be beautiful.

[2274] It is so gorgeous.

[2275] Really?

[2276] It is so beautiful.

[2277] And I looked at it and I said, I want that.

[2278] And then I thought, oh my God, look at me. Also, you know, I hate to say what this signals the end of.

[2279] I've declared it many times in here.

[2280] The purpose of the podcast was for you to end up in a sorry.

[2281] I know.

[2282] You said it on this.

[2283] Oh, I did again on there.

[2284] Okay.

[2285] So I might.

[2286] And so we're almost at the finish line.

[2287] No, that doesn't mean.

[2288] Mission complete.

[2289] There's lots of things.

[2290] I need to learn my language.

[2291] You need to take a pilgrimage to India.

[2292] Yeah, Mali Elam.

[2293] Mali Alam.

[2294] That's the language.

[2295] That you need to learn.

[2296] Yeah, that's going to take a while.

[2297] So we have a long time.

[2298] Okay, so you've got to be fully fluent in Mali Alam.

[2299] Yes.

[2300] Okay, yeah, I guess we got another five, ten.

[2301] Forty -five years.

[2302] It doesn't get easier.

[2303] It's characters.

[2304] It's hard.

[2305] Yeah.

[2306] Oh, no, you got to, I didn't say you had to be fucking literate.

[2307] You don't have to read.

[2308] I said that because I'm an overachiever.

[2309] You have to speak for my transformation.

[2310] Even my mom can't speak.

[2311] Mm -hmm.

[2312] But your father?

[2313] Mm -hmm.

[2314] He can't.

[2315] You guys start working together.

[2316] Yeah, true.

[2317] He would hate that.

[2318] Yeah, we do not get along when he tries to teach me stuff.

[2319] No, no, that's a bad.

[2320] Well, people would be familiar with it when I tried to teach you things.

[2321] It's a very similar vibe.

[2322] Oh, my God, something you should do in your time machine is go back and watch him try to help me with math.

[2323] Oh, my God.

[2324] Oh, my God.

[2325] You know, it kind of, when I was editing our last fact check, where I was getting a little bit portray.

[2326] About that list of intelligence?

[2327] Yeah, yeah.

[2328] That was true.

[2329] I was your dad.

[2330] Yeah, you really were.

[2331] When I was editing it, I realized that because it really did remind me of math when I would sit down with him and I was bad at it.

[2332] And he was trying to help me, but he wouldn't do it the way.

[2333] The way the school was teaching you.

[2334] And I was so irritated because I had to show my work.

[2335] That was literally part of the.

[2336] Yeah, this makes so much sense because it's.

[2337] It's basically like you were coming into this situation with some information given to you by the school.

[2338] Yeah.

[2339] And he's like, that's not how you do it.

[2340] Yes.

[2341] Which is exactly what I would do to.

[2342] Yeah.

[2343] I mean, like, I know they're telling.

[2344] No, this is what you want to do.

[2345] With nines, it's a 10 deduct one.

[2346] But you have to show that you know how to do the thing they're teaching you.

[2347] So this weird way that may be better, whatever, it's not what I'm trying to do here.

[2348] I'm trying to get an A. Like, I'm trying to do it correctly.

[2349] Yes.

[2350] So it's spot on.

[2351] Because your dad would go, whatever they're teaching, I am an engineer and this is how it's done.

[2352] So I don't really care what they think in elementary school.

[2353] I'm the one with the fucking profession and math.

[2354] I'll tell you how it goes.

[2355] Yeah, I'm like, you immigrate.

[2356] Go back to your country.

[2357] Oh, my God, you are xenophobic races.

[2358] But you bring me this list.

[2359] And I'm like, yeah, that's fine that that's their list.

[2360] But not for me. Like, I reject that list.

[2361] And I'm like, can you just hear the list?

[2362] I had a commenter who got his doctorate degree in primatology and some type of intelligence research commented.

[2363] He agreed that there's so many bizarre ways to, but that minimally pigs aren't anywhere near as smart as any of the great apes.

[2364] All right, well, he has a bone to pick with sentient beings .org or whatever that.

[2365] Yeah, yeah.

[2366] But pigs are smart.

[2367] But he's saying they wouldn't be in the top 10?

[2368] He just said they're nowhere.

[2369] They're not comparable to any of the great apes.

[2370] Right.

[2371] Right.

[2372] Maybe they, sentient whatever, felt that they couldn't do all 10 as apes.

[2373] That's boring.

[2374] I don't know what their guiding principle was, but their list didn't really match any other lists.

[2375] No, remember that I read two lists and the other one had a lot of crossover.

[2376] Yeah, yeah, all the primates.

[2377] God.

[2378] Oh, my God.

[2379] No, no, let's not get bogged on that.

[2380] We made it through that one.

[2381] We did.

[2382] Yeah, but you were listening.

[2383] You recognized it as a familiar tug -a -war that you had had with your dad growing up.

[2384] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2385] Yes, it did.

[2386] And then he's an Indian man, and that's a ding -ding -ding.

[2387] Okay, so we've been on a really fun run in 2023, which is like we had Rami come on and really explain Islam to me in a way that I hadn't.

[2388] Us.

[2389] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2390] That also was a distinct thing.

[2391] I didn't want to include you because I was the one being critical.

[2392] That was what that was right.

[2393] Specifically there, I was the one that was going, there's a lot of business for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2394] So I didn't want to ensnare you in that.

[2395] Got it.

[2396] But I do, I did learn a lot in that.

[2397] Yeah, I learned a lot in that.

[2398] And then we had someone else talking about.

[2399] Well, we had Reza, but that was last year, but similar.

[2400] Talking about Islam, is that what you mean?

[2401] No, someone practice.

[2402] Oh, Shania Twain had practiced something I had never.

[2403] heard of and we got into that.

[2404] But anyways, yes, then a great education from Jay on Hinduism, and Vedic, and all these things that they all come from that book.

[2405] And that was very fascinating.

[2406] And I loved that history.

[2407] Yeah.

[2408] The more I learn about it, the more I appreciate it.

[2409] I do like it as a religion.

[2410] Yeah, even the fact that it's like a conversation that's been recorded.

[2411] And there's not a declaration and rules.

[2412] There's no rules.

[2413] Yeah.

[2414] I love that.

[2415] Yeah.

[2416] You know, for me, who hates rules, that's very appealing.

[2417] Yes, probably why my dad likes it, too.

[2418] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2419] Your dad and I should go fishing to get there with something.

[2420] But I do have some bizarre fantasy that when I'm in Nashville, I'll be close enough to do some hanging with him.

[2421] You'll be really close next weekend, but you'll be too busy at hip -hop.

[2422] Oh, my God.

[2423] Does he want to come dancing?

[2424] No. Neil will want to.

[2425] He could give you some tips.

[2426] I bet he could.

[2427] Speaking of all of this, Jay wanted to be a rapper, which I thought was interesting.

[2428] Remember for a little bit he wanted to be a rapper?

[2429] And we've talked about this phenomenon with Indian boys like hip -hop.

[2430] A lot.

[2431] Yeah.

[2432] Or they're very drawn to it.

[2433] Yeah.

[2434] It makes sense.

[2435] Well, first of all, all young boys are drawn to hip -hop because it's so, in -quote, masculine.

[2436] Well, and it's smart, too.

[2437] Yeah, a lot of it's the best poetry of the last 100 years.

[2438] Yeah, so I think it's like holding both of those things, like being really smart, but also being outside the box or creative.

[2439] Well, I think, yeah, so for me, where I'm liking, at the same time I'm liking punk rock, I'm liking Metallica, I'm liking all this stuff that is scary.

[2440] Punk rock is very, you go to the concerts, you might get your nose broken.

[2441] You know, all of it's a test.

[2442] They call it a, you know, a rite of passage of valor in anthropology.

[2443] Like, you know, you're looking as a young man for these little tribal tests to prove your, worthy of all this.

[2444] Yeah.

[2445] And the entry point into hip hop for me is the initial masculine shit.

[2446] And then once I'm in it, then it's like I start realizing like, oh, guru's sampling all this jazz.

[2447] Oh, and then the lyrics of de la soul is really cool.

[2448] Like you, you can enter through the macho door and then end up in the total artist.

[2449] It's just like being an outsider.

[2450] That's what a lot of those songs are about so I think there's that connection but anyway I thought that was that was yet another person yeah okay I tried to do some research I'm trying to find the percentage of Indians with blue eyes oh okay okay how's that coming along well there's too many unreliable or you back on um I wasn't what was it that is reliable dot org sentient somethings Yeah, you back on sentient .org for...

[2451] We're going to get sued by them.

[2452] They're reliable.

[2453] Yeah, they are.

[2454] I'm on world population review .com.

[2455] This sounds really good.

[2456] You can do eye color by country, but then it's confusing.

[2457] Okay, also more than half the people in the world have brown eyes.

[2458] Well, that's so obvious, right?

[2459] Isn't it way more than half?

[2460] Well...

[2461] Doesn't the vast majority of the...

[2462] Let me keep reading.

[2463] Okay, okay.

[2464] More than half.

[2465] of the people in the world have brown eyes.

[2466] Some of the highest guesstimations suggest that nearly 80 % of the world has brown eyes.

[2467] While that might be a reach, it does affirm the dominance of brown eyes.

[2468] In the region of Asia, okay.

[2469] God, you want your dad to go back to India or the math, and now you're calling Asia Asia.

[2470] That was the accident.

[2471] There's something to happen to you in Texas.

[2472] Yeah, I really got.

[2473] I sat on a southern porch and I got transported.

[2474] Now, this is what happened.

[2475] I woke up at 4 .30 central time.

[2476] Yeah, that's rough.

[2477] Which is 2 .30, which is if we're going to incorporate daylight savings, it's 1 .30, I woke up.

[2478] Yeah.

[2479] Yeah.

[2480] You're on night shift right now.

[2481] Yeah.

[2482] Okay.

[2483] In the region of Asia.

[2484] That's a new tongue twister.

[2485] Yeah, region of Asia.

[2486] Yeah, you did it really well.

[2487] And throughout Africa, dark eyes are most prominent.

[2488] Light brown eyes are most commonly suggested to be prevalent.

[2489] in Western Asia, in addition to portions of the U .S. and Europe.

[2490] Like, I see India, but then what's confusing is you click it.

[2491] And then it just goes to some stuff about India, but, like, it's done talking about eyes, but I'm confused.

[2492] If you ask me to bet my whole life savings on this.

[2493] Yeah.

[2494] I would feel pretty comfortable saying it's less than 1%.

[2495] I don't know if that makes me racist, but I was telling you if I had to bet my whole life.

[2496] It's not racist.

[2497] I'm crazy.

[2498] I've never, ever met.

[2499] Although my mom would say that in the north, there's a lot of Portuguese.

[2500] Okay.

[2501] Portugal gaitz.

[2502] No, Portuguese.

[2503] And so I imagine that's where a lot of the blue eyes come in.

[2504] Okay.

[2505] Perhaps.

[2506] Hold on.

[2507] Rob, can you help?

[2508] I'm looking.

[2509] There's not a lot.

[2510] Isn't it weird?

[2511] Yeah.

[2512] You know, some statistics are so, it's like so obvious.

[2513] They're like, we're not even going to look.

[2514] It's like no one has blue eyes in India.

[2515] Why would we?

[2516] But Jay Shetty does?

[2517] He does.

[2518] And his wife.

[2519] Yeah.

[2520] They somehow found each other.

[2521] The only two.

[2522] I know.

[2523] That feels really sim.

[2524] It's very simple.

[2525] This size says that green is even rare.

[2526] Yeah.

[2527] I mean, that makes green.

[2528] That's my mother has green.

[2529] Let me call my mom.

[2530] Okay, let's get her on the phone.

[2531] I'd love to talk to Nermie.

[2532] Or we could get her opinion.

[2533] Yeah, she'd call your dad, too.

[2534] Ask if he wants to go dancing on Saturday.

[2535] Maybe she wants to be a lot of it.

[2536] Well, I know she does.

[2537] She does not.

[2538] She does, too.

[2539] Oh, she might be at my grandpa.

[2540] She might be gardening.

[2541] Mom?

[2542] Mom?

[2543] Hi, Mom, you're on the podcast, okay?

[2544] So don't say anything racist or perverted.

[2545] I never do That's right You don't Mom, we have a question We're probably going to ask dad too But, okay, we had Jay Shetty on Do you know him?

[2546] I've heard about him, yeah He has a YouTube channel and stuff Yeah, I know who he is Bingo He has blue eyes He was in here And his eyes are like really blue And it was the first time I'd ever seen an Indian person With blue eyes And then it made me curious how common that is.

[2547] And I can't really find that much actual research.

[2548] So I wondered anecdotally what you think the percentage is.

[2549] Or have you ever seen any?

[2550] He's from the southern part of India, isn't he?

[2551] He seems to me. He's pretty dark -skinned.

[2552] Which is very unusual to have blue eyes and the southern part.

[2553] But in the northern or like in Punjab and places like that, I think, like we had some friends in Savannah.

[2554] I mean, she had green eyes.

[2555] Oh, I always were like hazel or greenish.

[2556] And you think that's because of the Portuguese?

[2557] Well, the northern part is it's from the Arab mix and all of that stuff.

[2558] The southern part, there's somewhat of Portuguese, like in Kerala.

[2559] Okay.

[2560] Oh, so maybe that's why he has.

[2561] I can't see where he's from.

[2562] I don't know where he's from.

[2563] I think he's from somewhere in the south, but I don't know if he's from, I don't think he's from.

[2564] He's from Carolism.

[2565] Okay.

[2566] Well, it's not on his Wikipedia, which is...

[2567] Suspicious.

[2568] He's from London.

[2569] Are you sure he's going to wear contacts?

[2570] Oh, God.

[2571] Maybe he's wearing contacts.

[2572] Oh, my God.

[2573] Starting a conspiracy theory.

[2574] I love it.

[2575] That's what I think.

[2576] Oh, no. Oh, my God.

[2577] Nirmie, do you want to go dancing on Saturday night at a hip -hop club if I'm in Atlanta?

[2578] Don't feel obligated.

[2579] Oh, my God.

[2580] I don't know about that.

[2581] Yeah, it's not really your scene.

[2582] Not my scene, nope.

[2583] Is dad at work, or is he home?

[2584] Yeah, he's at work.

[2585] He should be home probably another hour or so, but, you know.

[2586] I mean, I don't think he's going to know that.

[2587] I answer to this.

[2588] I know, but I truly don't think his eyes are blue.

[2589] Oh, wow.

[2590] Mom, you're really doubling down on this conspiracy theory.

[2591] I'm doubling down on it, yeah.

[2592] I just don't.

[2593] Oh, my God.

[2594] Oh, no. All right.

[2595] Okay, okay.

[2596] How would you not, I mean, why would he not be wearing color contact?

[2597] Well, because I. But mom, I brought it up.

[2598] Don't you think he would feel really fraudulent if he was wearing colored?

[2599] I don't know.

[2600] I just, my opinion, but, you know, I've never seen, I've never seen blue.

[2601] I've seen greenish and hazel, but blue is very unusual.

[2602] Okay.

[2603] You know.

[2604] You heard it here.

[2605] Do you think he might be the devil?

[2606] No, no, no. No, we like him, we like him, we like it.

[2607] All right, I'm going to let you go, but that was helpful and big mic drop.

[2608] Yeah.

[2609] Yeah.

[2610] Well, okay.

[2611] All right.

[2612] I'll talk to you later.

[2613] Bye.

[2614] Bye, I love you.

[2615] Bye.

[2616] Oh, my God, I love her.

[2617] Wow, she really, man. That's the thing.

[2618] You know, this is what you quickly discover.

[2619] It's like the way you'll tiptoe around certain things, but if you're from.

[2620] I know.

[2621] You're like, fuck this.

[2622] I don't know.

[2623] She's like, I'm just going to say it.

[2624] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[2625] There's no compulsion to like protect.

[2626] Because were you thinking that?

[2627] No, I definitely don't think he's wearing context.

[2628] I looked at them quite closely.

[2629] And I don't think he is.

[2630] But that would be an incredible turn of events.

[2631] Yeah, and I want to add, the least significant thing about his eyes are actually the color.

[2632] There's something much more compelling going on with his eyes than just the color.

[2633] It's like they think there's multiple colors in them.

[2634] And they have a glimbing.

[2635] glass quality to them.

[2636] But they do, but I think that's because you are really, really, your brain is not used to seeing a non -brown eye on a brown skin.

[2637] Like, it's really not.

[2638] That's fair, but they do seem to have like an extra, like they have more going on than my blue eyes have going on.

[2639] But we'd have to take, like, kind of blue.

[2640] We'd have to take them out and then take his.

[2641] It's too hard.

[2642] Okay, let's just call my dad real quick.

[2643] Okay, yeah.

[2644] Hey, Monica.

[2645] Hi, Dad.

[2646] You're on the podcast, okay?

[2647] So just, you know, I'm just letting you know.

[2648] Okay.

[2649] We have a question.

[2650] I just called Mom, too, to ask about this.

[2651] Because do you know Jay Shetty?

[2652] No. Oh, okay.

[2653] Jay Shetty is a...

[2654] He was a monk.

[2655] Yeah.

[2656] He's from England.

[2657] He left him, became a monk for three years.

[2658] And then he came, he left, and then he's become like a monk.

[2659] A personal coach.

[2660] He's my age, though.

[2661] He's like, yeah.

[2662] And he's a very popular podcast.

[2663] Yes.

[2664] And he's quite successful.

[2665] Anyway, dad, he has blue eyes.

[2666] And it's quite startling.

[2667] Striking is the right word.

[2668] It's striking.

[2669] That's a nicer way.

[2670] They're gorgeous.

[2671] But I said to him, I've never seen an Indian person with blue eyes.

[2672] And then I tried to look up some facts on how many Indians have blue eyes.

[2673] and there's really, like, very little info.

[2674] Then I wondered if you'd ever seen one.

[2675] Growing up in India, and we never paid attention to the eyes.

[2676] Dad, you would notice...

[2677] Head in the eyes was not something we even...

[2678] We or you.

[2679] You just don't pay attention to anyone's features.

[2680] Ashok, what color are my eyes?

[2681] Do you know what color Dax's eyes are?

[2682] No. Yeah, there we go.

[2683] Yeah, I, okay, yeah.

[2684] Hair is something I did not even observe because everybody had black hair.

[2685] Right, there's nothing to see.

[2686] Everybody had the same eyes.

[2687] Yes, Brown.

[2688] That's my whole point, Dad.

[2689] So you probably would have noticed if there was something different.

[2690] You're just noticing the same.

[2691] Not really, there is, there are a few people have those eyes.

[2692] You know, they call them, I think, at least in the southern part of India.

[2693] Uh, I call them, uh, it's cat eyes.

[2694] Oh, cat eyes.

[2695] Yes, by the way, when I think of Jake, when I'm saying there's more going on, that is what's going on.

[2696] There's like a feline quality to them.

[2697] Oh.

[2698] Yes.

[2699] I thought you were going to say, Dad, I thought you were going to say something in Mali Elam and then you said cat.

[2700] Like that was the word.

[2701] No, actually I was going to say in Mali Alam is called Puchakini.

[2702] Oh, and that means cat eyes?

[2703] Cat eyes, yes.

[2704] a few people like that.

[2705] Actually, there was a psychological kind of movie was made in Madhalla movie called Puchikarne, which is, you know.

[2706] Okay.

[2707] So it's real.

[2708] I don't think it's very surprising because, you know, the British was in India for a long time.

[2709] Right.

[2710] And so there has been a lot of, you know.

[2711] Cross contamination.

[2712] A lot of horse play.

[2713] Can we have two more seconds at your time, Michaud, bring up your list of the most intelligent animals?

[2714] Yes.

[2715] He doesn't know about animals.

[2716] Well, he'll still have an opinion.

[2717] Okay, my God.

[2718] I need Monica to read you this list of the 10 smartest animals, and I just want you to tell me whether you agree or not with this list, or if it sounds good or not.

[2719] Okay, great.

[2720] All right.

[2721] Great.

[2722] Okay, hold on.

[2723] Sentientmedia .org.

[2724] Okay, number one, humans.

[2725] Number two, dolphins.

[2726] Number three, ravens.

[2727] Number four, pigs.

[2728] Number five, chimps.

[2729] six elephants, oh my God, seven African gray parrots, eight octopuses, nine bonobos, 10 rats.

[2730] Oh, 11 pigeons, 12 crows.

[2731] We don't need to go to 12.

[2732] That's it.

[2733] Okay.

[2734] What do you think?

[2735] Do you agree?

[2736] Don't cry about it.

[2737] I don't agree.

[2738] The way everything is going right now, I don't agree with number one.

[2739] Oh.

[2740] Boom.

[2741] Yeah, that's really the best of us.

[2742] The truth, yeah.

[2743] Do you think pigs are smarter than chimpanzees?

[2744] I believe, I mean, you know, I think chimpanzees are smarter than pigs.

[2745] Yeah, yeah.

[2746] See, this isn't his wheelhouse, but, but, okay.

[2747] Just tell him why.

[2748] So, I started to read this list last fact check.

[2749] Dax does know a lot about animals, so he had a lot of pushback, and I was getting a little angry because I'm just trying to read this list, and he's...

[2750] And it reminded you of learning math.

[2751] Yes, and it reminds you of learning math.

[2752] reminded me of when you tried to help, quote, help me with math, and you would just try to teach me your own way as opposed to the way that the school was teaching and I would get angry and we didn't do very well when you tried to help me with math.

[2753] I think the statute of limitations over.

[2754] I'll always remember, yeah?

[2755] I just wanted you to know I picked up where you left off.

[2756] Yeah.

[2757] I just am carrying on the message.

[2758] Yeah.

[2759] You'd probably like this episode, Dad, you can listen to it.

[2760] because there's some Indian stuff we talk about.

[2761] Anyway, okay, we're going to go, but thanks for weighing in.

[2762] All right.

[2763] Are you off the podcast?

[2764] What's the progress on the house?

[2765] Okay, I'll call you later about that.

[2766] We're still recording.

[2767] It's going to start next week.

[2768] All right, I love you.

[2769] Bye.

[2770] Bye.

[2771] I love them.

[2772] Oh, my God.

[2773] See how different they are?

[2774] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2775] They are.

[2776] My mom's on a YouTube show.

[2777] Yeah, no, your mom is a Southern girl.

[2778] She's like a southern team She's spreading gossip Just like a souther Yeah, and a southern team Yeah, exactly Anyway, cat eyes Okay, so there we go We got it, we figured it all out Okay Oh, David Beckham's autobiography Is called My Side My Side Wonderful And then The Rock's book is called Dwayne the Rock Johnson The Life Lessons And Rules for Success Okay One thing I didn't mention about Austin, which is what I should have mentioned.

[2779] The whole reason I went is because I was on a panel for Spotify.

[2780] Yes, and you're with her friend Dusty.

[2781] Yes, Dusty moderated.

[2782] She's the best.

[2783] She moderated and it was me and this awesome professor named Josh from MIT.

[2784] Spotify has connected with Josh basically to do science around sound.

[2785] It's called Sonic Science.

[2786] And kind of connected.

[2787] It's mainly for advertisers, like how sound connects with people.

[2788] It's really cool.

[2789] It was really, really cool, actually.

[2790] And I felt so stupid, of course, because I'm there to talk about.

[2791] Were you comic relief, though?

[2792] I was comic relief.

[2793] I'm there to talk about it in practicality, really, like how we use it.

[2794] He was providing all the science.

[2795] But it was really fun, and I got to meet some really fun arm cherries.

[2796] He did.

[2797] Oh, my gosh.

[2798] I have to shout out the sweetest arm cherry.

[2799] Okay.

[2800] I was lost.

[2801] Trying to...

[2802] Into the J .W. Marriott.

[2803] Nope.

[2804] Trying to ding, ding, ding.

[2805] Go to the Soho House.

[2806] Oh, interesting.

[2807] When did you go to the Soho House?

[2808] This is another ding, ding, ding, ding.

[2809] Rob, joined the Soho House.

[2810] I got in.

[2811] Oh, my God.

[2812] Yeah, so he's going to get me some cookies.

[2813] Oh, my God.

[2814] Yeah.

[2815] You get me out some, too.

[2816] He loves cookies.

[2817] Do you like cookies?

[2818] Warm cookies.

[2819] But we met at the Soho House to do a little pre -meadup before the talk.

[2820] and it was hard to find.

[2821] So I was like, you know, obviously looking lost in this sweet girl.

[2822] Her name was Amanda.

[2823] She was working at a restaurant and she saw me and she came out and said hi and then she helped me get to the Soho house.

[2824] Oh, wonderful.

[2825] So, anyway, it was really nice to meet her.

[2826] I love meeting armchairs.

[2827] I got a little bit of a hike yesterday.

[2828] Oh, you did?

[2829] Yeah.

[2830] They loved that hike.

[2831] Really sweet man. Said, you help me recover.

[2832] Oh.

[2833] And I almost cried.

[2834] Aw.

[2835] Anywho, all right, so that was a big catch up.

[2836] That was a big catch up.

[2837] Talk to both of my parents.

[2838] I have an hour of material I didn't do about Delta.

[2839] So let's just earmark that.

[2840] Can you give her Easter?

[2841] I almost left the whole family by the end of this weekend.

[2842] Oh, no. She had an in for 72 hours straight, you know.

[2843] She's so powerful.

[2844] She is.

[2845] That's why I love her.

[2846] So powerful.

[2847] What did she do?

[2848] I just am scratching my head like, what is the move here?

[2849] You should ask my dad when you had him on the horn.

[2850] Well, I know what he did.

[2851] He just couldn't be bothered.

[2852] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2853] He went to work.

[2854] Trust me, I'm sure I used every technique.

[2855] What did she do?

[2856] Give us one.

[2857] Well, she ruined a dinner on Friday night.

[2858] I mean, just at a restaurant.

[2859] She was crying?

[2860] I mean, just going apesh.

[2861] Why?

[2862] If she grows six inches this week, I will not be shocked.

[2863] Like if she gets taller than Lincoln this week, I'll be like, okay, that explains that.

[2864] Yeah.

[2865] Rune to hike, family hike, turned into a 90 -minute ordeal.

[2866] Yes.

[2867] You name it.

[2868] Oh, poor buddy.

[2869] She might have missed me. Wouldn't go to school this morning.

[2870] I could barely get to.

[2871] When I dropped her at school, I was like, good luck school.

[2872] But she's going to be great at school.

[2873] That's what happens.

[2874] They didn't have school on Friday.

[2875] So it was like 72 straight hours of this indomitable spirit.

[2876] I was thinking about that this weekend.

[2877] Emotions are so hard.

[2878] And hormones are so hard.

[2879] Maybe her hormones are flaring.

[2880] Maybe her flies are coming.

[2881] Well, that seems a little early.

[2882] Yeah, it seems a little early.

[2883] It makes whiskey happy.

[2884] Ding, ding, ding, ding.

[2885] I'm Sharon Anonymous.

[2886] Whiskey ate two tampons this week.

[2887] Really?

[2888] Yes, yes, yes.

[2889] Ew.

[2890] Yeah.

[2891] Wait, I thought Kristen wasn't wearing tampons anymore.

[2892] Well, she...

[2893] He just...

[2894] Are you sure?

[2895] What if he got them from a, what if they're a stranger?

[2896] No, no, no, no. Strangers are garbage.

[2897] He did?

[2898] Yes.

[2899] Were they bloody?

[2900] Yeah, yeah, they're in the trash.

[2901] Well, I'm sorry about a hard weekend.

[2902] That's all right.

[2903] That's all right.

[2904] That's all right.

[2905] Oh, let me just hit you with the puck.

[2906] The apex of it is like insane weekend.

[2907] We barely got through it.

[2908] We're laying in bed last night.

[2909] 11 o 'clock.

[2910] She wanders into the bedroom with some haste.

[2911] Oh.

[2912] So we know.

[2913] she's asleep.

[2914] Oh, no. And generally, she gets woken up because she has to pee.

[2915] Yeah.

[2916] And so she like walks right by us and kind of mumbling to herself.

[2917] She looks insane.

[2918] Oh, my God.

[2919] So there's like a bear that just came out of hibernation.

[2920] And then she like opens the sliding doors between the bathroom and her room.

[2921] Exactly.

[2922] It's one foot from her bed.

[2923] Yeah.

[2924] But she walks all the way down the hallway.

[2925] She comes in our room.

[2926] She blows past us, she can't get the sliding doors, Piss, she rips the sliding door open.

[2927] And then we're expecting to hear her get on the toilet, hear some yawn.

[2928] Yeah.

[2929] And all of a sudden we hear some items get knocked off the counter.

[2930] Uh -oh.

[2931] And by the time Kristen gets around the corner, she's on the sink, peeing in the sink.

[2932] But she was peeing in the sink with her feet in the sink.

[2933] I had to clean her feet off.

[2934] I had, I mean.

[2935] She didn't wake up the whole time.

[2936] Nope, no, no. We, you know.

[2937] It's weird because she's like.

[2938] You bring her back to her bed and you lay her down and then she's completely out.

[2939] Like nothing ever happened.

[2940] She doesn't remember any of it.

[2941] But it was, it was just like, what a perfect end to this weekend.

[2942] I feel like she is growing then if this is happening with her brain.

[2943] Like her brain is so big.

[2944] She's such big brain.

[2945] I love her so much.

[2946] What a weekend.

[2947] What a weekend.

[2948] Oh, I'm sorry.

[2949] And also I love her.

[2950] Then she wasn't going to go to school today So it was like a whole thing to get her And I was just at the point where I just said Please, baby, I don't have it in it In me to fight you I just please Yeah And then she did it Yeah Yeah she got in the car And I grabbed her leg at some point She did hold my hands So it's like we made up But anyways I get back in the house And I look at And there's just nobody there Like Kristen has been defeated Depleted Yeah She's, there's, there's nothing left.

[2951] She's like trying to make her way back up to the guest bedroom to go back to sleep for a while.

[2952] And I was like, that girl won, she beat us, she beat us good.

[2953] We're both dead.

[2954] Well.

[2955] I love you.

[2956] I'm delighted she's in school and I'm here.

[2957] Yeah.

[2958] It's like a vacation in here.

[2959] Sweet girl.

[2960] Oh my God.

[2961] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[2962] Well, it's hopes it's out of her system before.

[2963] It's hard to be a little kid.

[2964] It is, it is, it is.

[2965] Yeah, was Lincoln like, oh, my, does she care or no?

[2966] I mean, I'm just, as much as I'm, like, frustrated with DeMoney, I'm, like, overwhelmed with pride for how Lincoln at nine years old can really handle it.

[2967] Handle it.

[2968] And doesn't beat the fuck out of her.

[2969] Like, it's shocking to me how patient she is.

[2970] It's something to behold.

[2971] We have comparable level of patience.

[2972] with it, and I'm 48.

[2973] Yeah, I know.

[2974] She really is.

[2975] So it's like, Great sister.

[2976] She's shining so much in those moments.

[2977] I'm losing on one side, but then I'm kind of winning on this side.

[2978] It's all things.

[2979] You're not losing in the grand scheme.

[2980] You're losing, you're losing.

[2981] She's kicking my ass.

[2982] She's winning.

[2983] Like, she's winning life, you know?

[2984] Yeah, yep.

[2985] She's out maneuvering me around every corner.

[2986] I can't figure it out.

[2987] All right.

[2988] I love you.

[2989] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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