The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett XX
[0] Just because you're determined doesn't mean everything's going to go well.
[1] Those four people that passed away were they climbing with you?
[2] On bare grills and I've learnt how to survive on some of the most hostile terrains on the planet.
[3] You really fascinate me for a number of reasons that I actually never knew before I started digging into your story.
[4] You certainly had a lot of demons.
[5] In the early days of TV especially, there was so much pressure to go and do that and do the extra episode.
[6] You end up burning the things that most valuable.
[7] To be successfully, you have to sacrifice.
[8] But maybe you reach my way enough enough.
[9] Selection for the special forces is all about heart and spirit.
[10] And we can all have that.
[11] That's not a God -given talent.
[12] That's a muscle that builds with walking through the door of failure time and time again and keep getting back up.
[13] When was your darkest moment?
[14] One was when I broke my back, and it was in rehabilitation for a long time.
[15] And, you know, so much of my rock in my life had been that I was physically strong and I was doing a job.
[16] I loved and suddenly I couldn't even reach the bathroom without excruciating agony and it was just what am I going to do in my life?
[17] When is there a time to give up?
[18] So without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett and this is the diary of a CEO.
[19] I hope nobody's listening but if you are then please keep this to yourself.
[20] Ben I want to start where I usually start which is near the start and one of the things you said was you certainly had a lot of demons.
[21] The quote the exact quote is I was never short of demons.
[22] When I read that, I thought, what do you mean?
[23] Growing up, I really struggled with confidence.
[24] You know, definitely when I was at school and I think, you know, I think so much of the school culture still to the day, you know, it definitely tends to celebrate the, you know, the guy who's academic or sporty or good looking or just a cool guy, you know, and that, those are the currency of school.
[25] But as you and me know, it's not always a currency of life.
[26] But as you and me know, and you try and tell a kid who who maybe isn't sporty or academic who's just kind and does his best you know that actually those things have much more value in life and it's kind of hard to believe but certainly for me I didn't I didn't have I wasn't the sports of the most academic or the cool guy and I think it took me a while to find an identity and actually this is what you know it's what I love and it's nothing kind of brilliant, but I love it.
[27] And for me, growing up, it was always climbing with my dad.
[28] You know, he'd been a, he'd been a commando and loved all of that sort of stuff.
[29] And for me, growing up, it was always, you know, that's what I love to do.
[30] Just, just have many adventures with him.
[31] And I think it took a while to learn that that's okay.
[32] You know, my dad was always saying, you've got to find something you really love and try and be kind to people along the way and be resilient, you know, have that dog and never give up attitude.
[33] And that, you know, that that's the key things for life.
[34] But it's hard to believe that as a kid.
[35] And sometimes if you get a bit lost in the system.
[36] So I suppose what I meant is it took me a while to find the confidence, you know.
[37] And it's still a journey, I think we're all on.
[38] You know, I think success doesn't always answer those sort of questions.
[39] And I think confidence has to come from in here.
[40] And it's often the opposite of what we think it is when we're growing up.
[41] You know, confidence is quiet.
[42] think that's where that's kind of what I meant when you say confidence what how do you define confidence because some people think of confidence as this like overt external expression of like self -assurance what did you mean when you said I didn't have confidence and it's still an ongoing battle what is that I think it's not what the world always thinks like you say you know we always have this thing of confidence as you say it's this unstoppable I can do anything you know I think life is always humbling you know in every way just like the wild you know the mountains are humbling, you know, the real things of life are humbling.
[43] So you remind us that, you know, it's often a battle.
[44] And, you know, you've got to sometimes put your head down and do your best and you're going to fail and you're going to struggle and you're going to have doubts and you're going to have self -doubt.
[45] But try and get your feet and keep going.
[46] And I think that is that is confidence.
[47] You know, confidence is a quiet stuff and the and the honesty and to say this is a struggle, but let's go.
[48] you know, let's do our best.
[49] I love that thing of the scouts, you know, do your best, you know, which is so smart because I think so much of the world is about be the best, you know, win, number one.
[50] You know, but actually that doesn't always stand the pressure test of time and of life and of going for big things.
[51] It's always going to be humbling.
[52] And I think the thing of do your best, you know, it's dip, dip, dip, you know, D -YV, do your best.
[53] I love that because wherever you're at, you can do that you know it's a decision isn't it's not a gift it's not something we're born with like the looks or the academic of the sport something you've got to summon and uh i like that what were the symptoms of having a lack of confidence when you were that age what would it look like how did it manifest itself i think probably just being quite shy and uh and i think you see the the people at school always the the bigger personalities and it was always like gosh you've got to be like that to get anywhere.
[54] And it's a life journey, isn't it, to realize it's almost the opposite.
[55] It's almost the opposite.
[56] You know, look at the quiet, the persevering, relentlessly, trying to pick itself up through the failures and keep going and know the wealth of life.
[57] The wealth is always found in our relationships.
[58] And, you know, you come across people who are rich in friendships and, you know, rich in passion and love what they do and love the people they work.
[59] with and you know and that's enough that's wonderful but it takes a bit of unlearning doesn't it of saying you know you don't have the people not always to look up to aren't always the front and centre and as I get older I see more more heroes left right and center we're more left and right rather than center you know and and I love that I sort of see it in people and you know I see it in our camera crew I mean look at look at what's been a core part of my job for however many years, many years now, you know, the filming and stuff.
[60] And, you know, the focus is always on the person front of screen and, you know, that horrible word of talent, as they call it.
[61] I never felt very talented.
[62] Still don't.
[63] Still feel I'm surrounded by way more talented people.
[64] But it's life isn't a competition about who's more talented.
[65] It's a journey to take with great friends.
[66] And I look at our camera crew and to me, true heroes, you know, they work harder, they carry heavier weights, you know, unsung.
[67] you know, relentlessly positive, carry me many times, you know, in so many ways.
[68] Encourage me when I've been struggling and I look at them and still brothers and sisters, best friends to this day.
[69] I think it's probably the thing I'm most proud of in my career, actually, the friendships with our crew, you know, in an industry that is notoriously transient.
[70] You know, people have crew come, crew go, new crews, you know, but we've kept pretty well the core crew from from the beginning and uh part of it's that we're obviously working in difficult dangerous terrain and you forged stronger bonds than you would in a shiny studio but part of it's that the loyalty really matters from both goes both ways uh and i love that you said that you kind of have a bit of an allergic reaction to the word talent right just from a few other things that you said in that little open i wondered if you you relate at all to the to the phrase impossible syndrome at all because you're someone who's the world has this image of you as being this like unbelievable mountain scaling fearless adventurer and even you talking about a lack of confidence doesn't seem to fit into that narrative that the world must hold of you so have you ever felt what they call imposter syndrome at all would you ever do yeah i think so because i'm going because it probably grows you know the more you know the more sort of something does well you know we you know we did the show this year for netflix called you versus wild you know and we just got the news you know this morning we got nominated for three Emmys for it and the crew go baby she's so excited but part of my heart dies part of me it's like oh it's like that gulf between the sort of tv sort of you know guy and the real gets bigger you know and i feel from day one i I felt, I almost had more confidence, I think, in my skills at the beginning.
[71] I think it's the years ago, and I've realized actually I've often been surrounded by people of better, better climbers, better skydivers, better survival guys, better looking, fitter, stronger, all of these things, just because we've built a crew of ninjas, a true heroes and, you know, we got to work with people and locals and experts all around the world year after year.
[72] And I think more and more, I feel these guys are, that person we met there, or that person we met They are amazing.
[73] It'd be much better at the job than me. But, you know, like I say, our job isn't to be the best, you know, it's to do our best.
[74] And, you know, for some reason I've been given the chance to do this.
[75] It's what I've always loved.
[76] I love the adventures.
[77] I love, like I say, the friendships and, you know, the job we do.
[78] And I think you can only ride that and be grateful for it.
[79] And like I say, do your best and not worry about too much about how the TV makes it always look.
[80] I mean, the truth is, the TV always puts for best bits.
[81] They cut out the trips and the stumbles and you put anything to music and the guy's going to look cool, you know.
[82] But I think an element to why the show worked when we first started doing it is that we did show a lot of the mistakes.
[83] And it was kind of the slips and the stumbles and the ums and the ours.
[84] And I remember from day one, the producer that came to me and said, we want to do this show where we drop you in the middle of difficult places and you show us how to get out of there.
[85] And I kept saying no, because I didn't want to do TV.
[86] I didn't know about TV.
[87] And I was like, oh, no. And, you know, but you kept saying we don't want that.
[88] It doesn't need to be perfect.
[89] And it was my wife that said, why don't you go and try it?
[90] You know, and I just left the military.
[91] We just got married.
[92] We were kind of starting out.
[93] And she was smart.
[94] She said, go and try it.
[95] And actually, it's never felt like making a perfect thing.
[96] I think the magic at that time, it was the first show that came along that let all the mud be on the lens and the rain on the lens and the trips and the stumbles.
[97] and you saw the cameraman's hand and there was a sort of interactivity that was great and I've always felt if it's not broke don't fix it the stumbles the trips the struggles the mistakes are part of life but the part of my heart that dies is because it all makes it look too good or too you know because at the end of the day I'm a really regular guy I'm a regular dad as well you know I'm not I'm not brilliant at any of these things but I know what I love and I know the weapons that serve me best and the weapons are always this, you know, be dogged, be determined, be the most resilient person out there when it's hard, you know, come alive in the big moments.
[98] When it's not the big moments, you don't need to be front and center, but in the big moments, be there.
[99] I watched a lot of interviews of you before you arrived here today and I think in pretty much all of them, you said, I'm a normal guy, I'm a regular guy.
[100] And I get that, I get that.
[101] I understand what you're saying.
[102] However.
[103] Well, it's not false modesty.
[104] I don't want to...
[105] I'm not going to let people build me into something I'm not, you know?
[106] And I think as I get older, I know the frailties more and more.
[107] And I'm not ashamed of them.
[108] Do you know what I mean?
[109] It's okay.
[110] Many mistakes, many, many struggles.
[111] It's okay.
[112] Otherwise, things become all too, you know, it's hard to relate to, you know.
[113] But you got through SAS selection.
[114] Just.
[115] I got through all these, it just, you know.
[116] And people turned, turned to you and said things, and as they turn back and quit, right?
[117] That, for me, is a filtering process of something.
[118] Yeah.
[119] Whatever that's something is.
[120] All it is, it's something we can control.
[121] It's not a filtering of talent.
[122] It's not filtering of you're brilliant.
[123] You're through, you're not through.
[124] You know, it's a genius of selection for the special forces.
[125] It's all about heart and spirit.
[126] And we can all have that.
[127] That's not a God -given talent.
[128] And that's a muscle that builds with walking through the door of failure time and time again and keep getting back up.
[129] You know, so I like that.
[130] It's why I say I'm an ordinary person.
[131] It's why I also say just to so many things because, you know, yes, I've passed out.
[132] Or yes, you reach the top of this mantle.
[133] Or yes, you do.
[134] But it's always just.
[135] And that's okay, you know.
[136] And it's also often by standing on the shoulders of many giants who have helped me, you know, many times, you know, if I think of SS selection, You know, that time, there were so many times where somebody just kind of believed me in a critical time.
[137] You know, it might be something where the two corporals running something, go, do we want that guy, do we on that guy, do we on, you know, a bit of luck falls on his side.
[138] Somebody backs you, you know, or, you know, I don't know, just, the more I look back of so many so -called achievements, the more I see the hand of good people in critical moments.
[139] But as you know, you have to win the hearts of those people in the first place.
[140] but also the role of just that dogged determination to keep going and that's not a thing of being brilliant it's just trying to keep going often sliding another step back but keep moving forward and you say that to you know I've got three boys now three teenagers and I think if you said to them what one thing does your dad say to you day off day before you go to school it's always just you know don't give up don't never give up be kind you know be determined never give up and they roll their eyes but you know what one day they'll know that it's a key thing of life you know you don't have to be the best you do your best did that resilience muscle as you call it grow over time course it's like it's like everything it's like the little little seas to the mighty oaks you know we how do we build it just inch by inch and and that's a great thing because it's not something only some people can have you know it's universal for us all we can all become.
[141] People think it's a God -given gift to someone be resilient.
[142] Resilience is that muscle and you build it by failing and trying to stay positive and trying to get back your feet and going again.
[143] You know, I look back and I remember being really excited about being picked for the fourth 11 football team as a linesman.
[144] It wasn't even in the team, you know, and it was like, my job was to bring on the oranges at half time, you know, but it was like, and I remember my dad was the only dad on the side of the pitch cheering me on i thought it's so embarrassing he's not i'm not even in the team and dad said you know he's come to kind of but actually those little steps of like i'm going to do this i'm going to bring on those oranges and you're never going to forget it's going to be great and it's incremental tiny little things but having to fight for things you know so how often do we see at school though the the school hero actually in life doesn't always do that brilliantly and why is that it's because they've got you know schools rewarded that but they've never tested this you know where little Johnny who doesn't have that doesn't get the awards is a linesman brings on the oranges yeah whatever it is struggles doesn't even get noticed never wins anything but never gives up and keeps doing his best and still doesn't really get noticed but doesn't matter but when he leaves school this might not be the biggest thing but this is like ninja like you know that resilience muscle inside is strong and as you know and as i know in life that's the one that is going to carry you further and and the unseen people at school often do better in life it's like don't peek too early don't peak at 14 i certainly didn't i sat here with um you bank and i've been thinking about this idea of resilience and what it really means and as we sit here today my current hypothesis is basically resilience is the story it's kind of this contract you have with yourself, this self -story about who you are.
[145] And in those moments when no one is looking, I was talking to Eubank about me being on the running machine and knowing I've got two minutes to go because I said before I started, I'd run until 45 minutes, but my legs are hurting and they're cramping.
[146] And I could give up and walk away and no one's going to know because no one's here.
[147] But I alter my own self -story in a way, and I send a message to myself that I am the type of person that gives up when it's tough.
[148] So is it really, do you relate to that?
[149] And it's kind of like, you're crafting this story about who you are to yourself with every small decision you make.
[150] Doing the linesman job, you said, I'm going to do it the best I possibly can.
[151] And although it's not what I wanted, I'm going to give it everything I can and not give up.
[152] Yeah.
[153] Does that relate at all?
[154] And also, I think the thing of giving up is that, you know, what is it sort of thing of temporary pleasure, long term?
[155] Yeah, that's true.
[156] And for me, I just, I developed this thing where whenever people, were quitting or complaining I like those moments for me it was like okay there's all the all the chat and the bravado there's always that beginning I was full of that but bring it down put the squeeze on you know we like grapes and squeeze us you see what's inside bring the squeeze bring the squeeze now we see characters see what people are like and for me it just became whenever I saw people quitting or complaining especially complaining and you see it so much as in the military you see it on big expeditions you see it, even when we're filming TV shows when it gets hard, you know, when it gets hard, you know, and you're hungry and you're scared and you're up against it, you're dehydrated.
[157] You know, those are the moments.
[158] And for me, it just became a trigger.
[159] When everyone's complaining and giving up, it's a time to give more, you know, just you don't have to give more in the early times.
[160] Just wait until it's...
[161] And that's how you separate yourselves in business and in life and in relationship, you know, in the big moments.
[162] You know, look at a relationship.
[163] When you're under that real day and everyone's throwing it, you know, are you going to really throw that nasty comment all kind of hold it and just try and be gracious and kind in those big moments, you know.
[164] And I like that.
[165] It wasn't, you know, it wasn't complicated to think about under pressure.
[166] It was just like when everything's going wrong, that's the time.
[167] Give more rather than give up.
[168] And I held on to that in many difficult moments, you know, across many different arenas.
[169] And it's helped me, you know, I remember this guy said to me once said, and you can do anything for another 10 seconds.
[170] I like that.
[171] And it's, you're in that moment, you keep going, another 10 seconds.
[172] That makes you different, though.
[173] You've got to admit, because most people don't want another 10 seconds.
[174] Yeah.
[175] Well, it hurt.
[176] It hurts.
[177] I'm not saying it's not going to hurt.
[178] It's going to hurt.
[179] But that far inside is it's in us all.
[180] You know, it's just you've got to dig sometimes.
[181] But it's a great truth to know that it's there.
[182] When you dig, you know, it's there.
[183] And I think, as you say, once you get used to it, you start to practice it, the muscle gets stronger and then you almost seek out tough times you know this is a chance to shine you know and as you say that's how you separate yourselves in life you know you're going to reach these points but in those big amount what are you going to go this way how are you going to act in those big moments and it's always what separates you know reaching those summits for not reaching those summits never give up it's the name of your latest book when is there a time to give up because there is a wildly believed I think social phrase, which is like quitting is for losers, right?
[184] But when I look at my own life and my own career, quitting has played quite an important role sometimes in leaving a situation that wasn't good.
[185] So when should we give up?
[186] Well, that's called wisdom.
[187] And it comes with experience.
[188] And there's always a right.
[189] First of all, my 16 -year -old nephew gave to me the other day.
[190] I said, Bev, you need a not the smoking on the head.
[191] You're smoking a lot at the moment.
[192] He went, but ever since I've a kid, you told me never give up.
[193] I said apart for the cigarettes You know There's always a time to give things And experience and wisdom You know You just don't want to be a pig -headed head in the dirt You know That's not smart That's not smart You know intuition and experience Has to know where and hard on This isn't maybe the right route Let's just take a step back And I think it's why so often Great Mountaineers are often a little bit older Because they have that patience and that judgment and when you're young and you don't care and you kind of maybe should be listening to that intuition and maybe the weather's change or something's happening that's saying hold you know and you go and you die.
[194] It's why so many highitude mountaineers deaths is that that you know relentless ability not to adapt or change your plan where with age you have that ability to listen to your instinct to the mountains to the circumstances and maybe adapt and maybe change and as we know you know with big mountains they'll always be there so I think that ability to life to listen to that and to amend and to adapt is super important and look at soldiering same as always this thinking man soldier you know was a was a mantra of a lot of these special forces stuff as always being able to adapt improvise adapt to overcome you know that that's that's leading with this and with this so course is a time for pulling back and holding but i think generally the message you know 90 % of the time most people don't get to where they're going not because of a lack of skills or talent is that lack of kind of ability to keep going when it's hard and that's why i think doing little things every day small things that you know whatever it is that just push your push this muscle a bit is good you know even if it's like i mean i've had a thing for years and it's now super popular everyone's kind of you know doing it you know the ice bath training oh yeah but i've done it for years and i love this thing it's just three minutes a day, I'm just in that cold water, you know, whether it's a river or in winter or a lake or, you know, at nighttime.
[195] And, you know, I try and find somewhere every day, just getting that cold and it hurts, still hurts.
[196] But it's just a little something, whatever it is, that you're something that's difficult to do.
[197] Because most people spend their lives avoiding the painful, the difficult, you know, they're scared of public speaking or they're scared of it.
[198] So they avoid the things that challenge us.
[199] But as you know, it's where growth happens and growth isn't always fun it's often painful but it's like a muscle the more you push it than what you get used to it you know there's a great thing at the commando training center in limpson that just says comfortable with uncertainty and it's a great thing for life you know don't get sat in that comfort zone too much i call it a comfort pit someone to get out of quick i was wondering if like training in the gym when i do my repetitions of the weights i then need a bigger weight to get the same gain.
[200] So do you find yourself needing like a bigger thrill or a bigger expedition or a greater challenge to get the same like feeling of fulfillment and contempt from what your work these days?
[201] And where do you find now after you've climbed Everest and done all you've done?
[202] I don't feel that.
[203] No. I don't feel that.
[204] I think what you're saying in the question is that you actually, is that where you get your fulfillment through that thing.
[205] And the answer is no, it's not where I get fulfillment.
[206] I do these things.
[207] I try and do the difficult things just to keep that inside muscle honed a little bit but it's not always about bigger and better and you know it's as i read the other day half of life is getting where you you know achieving your goals and the other half of life has been really happy to enjoy it the second one's a harder one to do and i think a big you know i'd be super lucky to fulfill so many things i still have many goals many ambitions but it's not goals and ambitions that trump the last one and ever bigger and ugh You know, it's not like that.
[208] It's just really grateful and make sure you stay alive.
[209] You know, make sure you're always grateful for the many good things and the luck you've had along the way.
[210] You know, keep that muscle inside honed.
[211] Keep keep working.
[212] Keep doing your best.
[213] But it's definitely not where I find the fulfillment.
[214] It's not like the achievement's never going to fulfill that whole.
[215] Did you used to think it would?
[216] Maybe a little bit.
[217] I think when I was young, you know, I think Everest certainly for me was such a symbol of like, I'm going to do this, you know.
[218] It was at a time when only, I think, 20 -odd Brits had ever climbed it, and it was like, I thought this is going to be epic, you know.
[219] And then you see the realities of, you know, we have four climbers lose their lives up there.
[220] And it re -rattled me in many ways.
[221] And I was lucky to reach it up and got back in one piece.
[222] But it didn't answer that question of, you know, I don't know.
[223] I don't think I'd climb it now.
[224] I'm not so out on a quest to kind of prove anything.
[225] But I think when you're young, half of it's good to have a quest.
[226] You've got to have that goal.
[227] but the other half is that it's not it's not the answer to life is it you know it's a you know that maybe comes from elsewhere and with time and experience you learn the real answer life is always rooted in you know something aside and that and relationships with great people and you know a lot of it I think comes down to love actually you know being uh knowing those connections with great people and a love of whatever it can be a love of the outdoors a love of what you do you know but um have it's not found an achievement always have you found where it is found you don't seem to be so certain exactly where that that feeling of fulfillment um you talked about the second half which is like enjoying the goals have you figured that bit out i think it's a lifelong journey of figuring it out you know i i hope i edge closer to where it's not found which is it's never found in trophies and triumphs and accolades, you know, those things, I see those things with clearer lenses now.
[228] You know, I'm more proud of to be married, you know, 22 years, you know, I got three great boys.
[229] You know, the simpler things I'm more proud of.
[230] I think, you know, where do I really find fulfillment?
[231] I think my faith is a quiet thing in that sense.
[232] You know, face is always a tricky one but and hard to articulate very well but it's definitely comes from a place of like that you're you're okay you're okay we're forgiven we're loved empowered and um trying to live it live life as best you can eyes wide open with you know gratitude in your heart and a tough resilient spirit to go for things and uh and i look at life and those sort of turns more and I feel like in the 2022, in the UK, where I think we've grown more atheist as a society.
[233] I mean, some people say there's no such thing as an atheist, but we've grown more atheists in our viewpoints.
[234] It is harder to communicate if you do have a faith.
[235] Why did you say that it's a tricky thing?
[236] I think it's been so tarnished.
[237] I think religion has been so tarnished.
[238] And I get that.
[239] I was always the least religious person growing up.
[240] I just thought, I mean, as a kid, I had a really natural faith.
[241] I always believed in some higher power and that I could feel, you know, there's something around, you know, as a little kid.
[242] It was like, ah, wow.
[243] And then I think I went to school and then, you know, you had to go to church and they all wore white cussics and spoken Latin.
[244] I thought, gosh, I've really missed it.
[245] You know, this is actually what it's about.
[246] And it's been a life journey to unwind all of that and realize actually the little me had it right.
[247] You know, faith is in your heart knowing.
[248] knowing that you're not alone and and there's something bigger than us out there and they're for us not you know that that power is for us not against us and despite my doubts and all of those sort of things i'm going to put my trust in that and try and you know have love at the center of all we do and and live empowered and go for things and not be scared to fail and not be driven by fear and all those sort of things and that to me what faith is um so it's hard to articulate I think because it's personal and it's it's it's intimate and also it's like I say it's it has just as many doubts as it does you know doubt and faith two sides of the same coin you know I think it does feel like that for me but through it all I would say my Christian faith has been a real backbone and a kind of secret strength in many tricky moments you know like to a dark path I always kind of feel it's that sort of thing so yeah I did wonder when I was reading about your faith and I watched you pray for Obama just at the end of your time with him because I've sat here with guests who have undergone and witnessed such horrific things in their in their lives and they've and it's shaken their faith in fact Eubank was one of them that his brother suddenly died they were both very religious and that shook his faith and being out in nature and being on those expeditions up Everest where two people fall to their death and two you know die of the cold one would it might assume that those moments would shake your your faith but it sounds like it's made stronger in a way from what you say well i think the two things happen often it gets shaken and strengthened and uh actually my experience the people people have really been taken to the edge that's actually where they find their faith you know you look at so many of the concentration camp stories and stuff you know it's uh you know two sides looking at one person said there can be no god i've seen i've witnessed evil personified and the uh was if I can't remember it when it said I've been to the edge and I know there's no place that God isn't you know it's all how we look at how we choose to live and I choose to try and live with you know faith faith in other people faith in ourselves faith in the almighty and that helped me but it's it's funny that thing with Obama because in a way that was never meant to be on TV it was just a spontaneous thing at the end of the journey and I'd you know when you spend time with people you get a sense of someone and I think at the end of that journey with Obama I got a real sense that he's a guy with a weight of the world on his shoulders you know and he got lighter as the journey went on and by the end he said you know what's one of the best days of my presidency I'm out of the office I'm out of a suit talking about stuff that's in here rather than being grilled on you know politics and I can see him like getting lighter you know and I just said it at the end I said, first of all, good job, you're doing.
[249] You probably, I don't know if you get told it very often.
[250] Most people are giving you hold a bit, you know, you're doing your best, dib, div, div, you know.
[251] And I wanted to just say, you know, I don't know, felt like let's try and refill his fuel tank a bit.
[252] Yeah, yeah.
[253] And actually, it ended up going in the show, you know, I put a hand on his shoulder and said, you know, strength this guy, you know, and the big decisions.
[254] Oh, man, you know, and it wasn't really more complicated than that.
[255] But I don't know, I think the wild always creates honest connections.
[256] without the fluff and it didn't feel unnatural and you know but it's funny how the effect of that I still get people to this day talk about that a lot and I'm quite unlikely people often say that was a good good moment not always easy I mean awkward sometimes isn't it doing that sort of thing but but that's okay I've learned that that's okay dude sometimes the awkward things are the best things telling someone that, you know, that they're amazing.
[257] You know, it can be awkward to a good friend, but can mean a lot.
[258] Quick one, we bring in eight people a month to watch these conversations live here in the studio when we're here in the UK and when we're in L .A. If you want to be one of those people, all you've got to do is hit subscribe.
[259] You said earlier about being rattled after Everest.
[260] One would never assume that, of course.
[261] You climbed the biggest mountain in the world.
[262] And you come down and you're rattled and your confidence is knocked.
[263] I think big mountains are humbling.
[264] You know, and sometimes you take on these big projects and it's about, come on, we're going to do it.
[265] And you're full of that confidence.
[266] But it's often quite surface.
[267] And I think when you see things close up and I think I came away with the real awareness that I've been really lucky and got away with my life where others hadn't up there.
[268] And this stage, Everest was killing one in six people's lives.
[269] And beforehand, I read about that, and it was almost kind of, it was almost glamorous.
[270] It was almost like romantic, you know, but you see the reality of it close up, and it's not romantic.
[271] It's dark and difficult and confusing.
[272] And I think my feeling at the end of it was that I got really lucky.
[273] You know, I've been, no doubt, dug deep in a few big moments, and, you know, it was some 92 days on that mountains.
[274] There's a lot of time you do have to dig deep, but ultimately had a bit of luck.
[275] at key times.
[276] And I think I came away aware of that and grateful for that, but less certain that just because you're determined in life doesn't mean everything's going to go well.
[277] And I think before I kind of thought, if you give everything, it's all going to work out.
[278] But as you know, in everything in life, there's no guarantees.
[279] You know, we live a gloves off life.
[280] You know, life is gloves off.
[281] There are no rules of kind of like, if you give this, all going to be, you know, roses and sunshine, you know, you can give the best in the world that's going to be hit you sometimes.
[282] You know, you get ill or something happens.
[283] And I think that's the part of me that got a bit shaken.
[284] But, you know, that's just life.
[285] And you have to live with your eyes wide open to that and still choose to try and make the good decisions and pick the good attitudes and put them on like a T -shirt every day that even though the gloves are off, we're going to go for this.
[286] We're going to do our best to be positive, do our best to give our best.
[287] And keep going to go.
[288] And keep going afraid.
[289] Those four people that passed away, were they climbing with you?
[290] Two Russians and a Brit New New Zealander from other teams.
[291] But they're on the mountain at the same time and never came back.
[292] And I remember with their teammates, you know, afterwards just them, them in tears and sitting with them.
[293] And it definitely made me question a lot at the time is any mountain really worth a life of which a clear answer is no. But at the time, sometimes your ambition is you know it's like we're going to go for it and and that's why i think now kind of with a bit of time and experience would i would i do it now would i take a one or six chance of not coming home now no because you have more to live for but i think at the time i was like i'm all in i'm going to go i want to make my mark you know at a young age and uh and the truth is i got lucky fame yeah what does that one mean yeah you tell me i've been only only on the TV for a couple of minutes.
[294] I mean, so, but you've been on there for many, many, many, many years.
[295] So I was hoping maybe you could give me a little bit of an overview of what fame is.
[296] Because, you know, when I looked at Bear Grills podcast, and I really couldn't find much.
[297] There was, for someone that's been in the public eye for so long, could barely find anything.
[298] And then I read this quote that you don't like, sometimes you feel like when you meet someone, there's a sense of you're worried you might disappoint them because they're expecting you to be something else well i think that's true i think part of my kind of the the answer is i don't do very many of these you know i think um but that's okay i'm not so hungry for more people to know everything you know i do do these sort of things every now and again with with good people and and when it feels right you know i think i think one of the reasons i get i get less comfortable sometimes in big groups of people and and and doing press stuff or doings, you know, I'm not very, I don't really like the cameras on me, if I'm honest, I struggle really with that.
[299] So one, you know, I've never gone to TV for that.
[300] You know, I've gone to TV because, you know, this producer said, do you want to try this thing?
[301] And like I said, we were just married and starting out and pretty broke.
[302] And it was like, let's go for it.
[303] Let's see what happens.
[304] But the sort of the recognition side of things, you know, I struggle with the word fame.
[305] I think it's a weird one.
[306] But I think the recognition side of things I struggle with more and I think part of it is a little part of me feels I'm never going to be quite as good as people expect you know in in as a TV sometimes makes out and therefore less is more very happy with my family and friends and I go and work but I want to kind of come home afterwards but when it comes to fame you know you say that you say about that I've I kind I've learnt, I think, over the years to, first we'll take it with a, not just a pinch of salt, but with a bucket of salt.
[307] You know, don't believe it.
[308] It doesn't, it's not where you're worth is, it's, you know, if your worth is that, you're always going to struggle because it goes up and down.
[309] Ultimately, it's going down, isn't it?
[310] You know, you're, you know, when we're, when we're 95 years old, nobody's going to know who, who I am.
[311] Speak for yourself.
[312] I'm joking.
[313] Well, but, but, but, and it doesn't matter.
[314] You know, it doesn't, but I'll, a sense of self -worth.
[315] You're always going to be fighting and losing battle, really.
[316] Yeah, yeah.
[317] So I take it all with a bucket of salt.
[318] I think for my family, growing up with a little bit of that, I always say to our boys growing up, we got friends all over the world and look at it like that.
[319] Amazing connections.
[320] You know, I can go to any country, and there's a connection with people there, and people want to tell their stories and go, oh, we've just been camping with my, you know, with my son, or, you know, my uncle was this, or did that, or my son's a scout, daughters a scout or whatever it is and i like those connections always grateful for people's stories and and that's fine so that's how i kind of look at it pinch us all don't believe it all but uh always be grateful for friends all over the world did you struggle with it at the start i think i struggled with it when i felt the attention was on me i think i didn't like that that that felt i remember so well in the early days when we started doing man versus wild first two seasons we were just gunning and going and it was all just kind of fun out there was small crew i never really didn't see it go down telly it was going out in america at the time so i was over in the uk i didn't see it i didn't know what's happening it was just lucky it was good timing and it just worked you know it just was meant to be at that time but i didn't really see much of that because i come home and you know live regular life and i remember the head of discovery after a couple of seasons say you know your show's best on discovery it's getting over a billion viewers now around the world and uh and my heart sank I really started to struggle with it and I suddenly started with it when we were filming I'd be like self -conscious and what what am I saying?
[321] And the fun went out of it and I got more anxious with it all and I thought I don't want people looking at this or doing this or and it was a really sort of marked time of and the crew said it's where they said it's everything okay and I think I had to learn to it's about other people and when I realized people coming up and they weren't going, you know, you're amazing.
[322] They would go, I took my sun camping or my whatever did that.
[323] And when I was it was about them and I really tried to shift it in my brain, everything is about them, you know, what it brings out, whether it's a single mom coming to me saying, when you once said about you in that storm in the jungle and you said sometimes life is going to beat you up and you just got to be dogged and keep going, keep your head down, you know, the storms won't last forever.
[324] And I've really understood that as a single mom was trying to hold down all these jobs.
[325] I've got, you know, that for me lifted my whole, I thought that's why I do this job and it kind of shifted it off me and and that's why I've always loved my job now as like Chief Scout you know for me that was a revolution to be able to say when people come up to me and go you know oh you've done this and now yeah but look what you could do you can join you know you could join that and you can do this and you know somewhere to be able to not deflect but sort of direct people a little bit and I get such a kick out of that is why I love running wild so much because it's about other people it's about taking these rookies it might be amazing rookies but they're often wilderness rookies and opening their eyes to my office you know the outdoors what the wire can do for people that light inside that pride that come on you know that magic and uh and saying look at this and that freed me a lot away from kind of look at look at you know look that way instead of this way you said a word there which i i started thinking about a lot which was the word anxiety, which I actually think is quite an interesting thing because much of your work is about the natural world.
[326] And one of the, I think, our natural human signals is anxiety.
[327] It kind of tells you something that you're potentially doing wrong, maybe a train of thought that you've attached yourself to, which is destructive or whatever else.
[328] And depression's one of those things, is what I talk about a lot, is also seems to be a pretty close signal for a natural signal that we have, you know, some of my guests have said that they've, it's a signal that they've been disconnected from their, tribe and it's and they've explained the science of that and and even read the signal of rejection and how that makes us feel is a prehistoric signal telling us to get back into our tribe because or that there's a chance we might be thrown off the island by our tribe because we're being rejected so to change our behavior and all of these signals anxiety depression and this whole mental health um awareness that's emerged in the last 10 years what's your relationship been like with those with those um those topics First of all, it's amazing that people are talking about this and focusing on it more.
[329] You know, I think, you know, it's long overdue and it's a key part of our arsenal for life, isn't it?
[330] Our weapons that are going to help make your heart happy.
[331] You know, you need to look after the physical, you need to look after the emotional, you need to look after the spiritual, and you need to look after the mental side of things.
[332] You know, these are all weapons in our arsenal.
[333] We've got to focus on it, and if you neglect one, There's always going to be a little part of your heart that is going to struggle a bit, whether it's emotional, physical or mental.
[334] So you've got to try and put things in place that help your mental health.
[335] And I think people for many years often neglected that you shut things away.
[336] But actually so many of the things that help us mentally are simple things.
[337] As you say, those connections to people and that honesty and vulnerability.
[338] And like we've been talking about, not letting yourself sort of live a life that actually isn't real, not letting people make you into that hero that you don't always feel you know stay honest stay connected talk to people you know be outside how how many times do we see studies proving that when we're outside and we're in the sun and we're expressing and we're working hard and we're connected to people that's why the wild is such an amazing mental health weapon to build up that resource you know in a world that often depletes a resource you know all of this stuff is always pulling you know I find pulling, pulling, you know, leaves you emptier.
[339] But for me, the wild and connection and the sun and outdoors and swimming cold rivers and challenge and failing, all these sort of things build up, I find for me help my mental health.
[340] You can't take your eye off the ball with mental health.
[341] You've got to, and you're not always going to get it right, and that's okay.
[342] Is there a time in your life where you discovered mental health was a very real thing because of an experience that you'd had?
[343] because I think for many years I thought it was something that happened to other people and then there's a couple of sort of catalystic events that happened in my life that made me realize that I am not immune to anxiety to feelings of depressive symptoms and all of those things but is there something in your life where there's a pivotal moment or life events typically are the catalyst of those things where you go oh this is something that I now need to put as a priority I think I've been lucky in the sense that I've never suffered from really bad depression you know, where many, many friends have stood alongside, have really had battles.
[344] I think I've always had a, you know, an intuition of when I need to change something and when I'm struggling a little bit and when, hold on, this feeling of anxiety to be going on a bit, hold on, what can we change?
[345] What helps me?
[346] I've always sort of accidentally found things that help make that problem better.
[347] And for me, it's been that go -to, being outdoors, being with great friends, having a few, just a few good friends rather than lots and lots of friends.
[348] You know, even things like our be military fit, our BMF, our veterans run fitness business has helped me so much because it's a collective tribe of, you know, often veterans, people who need that camaraderie but want to train, want to stay physically fit, don't want to be in a gym inside with white light and all of that.
[349] They want to be outside in the fresh air.
[350] They want to be down in the dirt a little bit.
[351] they want to laugh at themselves and situations and face a few, you know, rain -swept early mornings training outside in a park together and like our physical health, the more we can be aware of the things that do help and have proven to help and to gravitate towards those, seek those things in our life, be outside, be connected, train, you know, be honest, have a few friends, the more it's going to help us when we do have the dark moments and I've never met anyone who doesn't have them, you know, they might tell you, they don't, but everyone has these moments and I certainly have, but I've also never met a strong person who's had an easy past.
[352] You know, it's just part of it.
[353] If you're going to go for big things and you're going to shoot for the top, you're going to have struggles and failures and part of life.
[354] When was your darkest moment?
[355] One was when I broke my back in the military and was in rehabilitation for a long time.
[356] And, you know, so much of my rock in my life had been that I was physically strong and I was doing a job I loved and suddenly I couldn't even reach a bar.
[357] and without excruciating agony and you know my bat was broken in three places and you know that you know I had to then leave my job you know with the military and and it was just a what am I going to do in my life you know but I also look at that time and I think if I hadn't had gone through that I don't think I ever would have actually had the drive and the impetus to make that Everest expedition happen at that young age and if hadn't done that that wouldn't have opened the door to other things and then eventually the TV and you know it's like it's like these these these clouds that often you know it's why not to be scared when life does hit you sideways because there's often a sort of a plan there you just got to try and keep moving forward towards it but that was definitely a dark time and I think also losing my dad at a young age I mean Shara and my wife and me both lost our parents within 10 weeks of each other in year one of marriage and it was we were young we were 24 25 and just starting out on life and I think we always had that safety net of our parents behind us you know and and i think suddenly both losing our dads and now being responsible for our mums and it was uh it definitely took that safety net away and it was like wow we're both dealing with trauma here not always very well but we we got i mean i look back now and actually it's what made us made us really tight and to have a love and a trust and a vulnerability together that has been key thing in our relationship i think ever since but at the time it was just pure pain and a and a huge hole that is still there to the day you know i mean you know i seeing our three boys grow up great the great loss for me is that you know they will never know my dad or he would never know them and how like he was they are and all of these dynamics that we take for granted and so often i see friends now and they go oh my you know my mom's a bit poorly and my dad i'm thinking there's part of me thinking you know you're so lucky to have had your parents for that long and we always dealing with looking after sort of my mom and all her sort of bills and everything and you know when it was 25 you know it's been going on a long time but but at the same time I think my dad told me so many of the key things in life which was back to that earlier point of like you know be resilient and be kind and keep going and and those things I'll always be grateful for and I wish my only regret is that I can get a chance to say to him wow you were right you were actually right all along when i kicked against it and kind of you know you were right you know follow your dreams be kind be resilient never give up and uh i never said thank you enough for that that's something i always worry about my dad is has outlived his siblings and um i don't feel like i've made enough of an effort to stay connected there's something about us where we just think our parents are going to be around forever like you when you said the safety blanket thing it's like this it's almost like it reminds me of COVID where I didn't realize the tectonic plate of society could ever move so I built my life like ignorantly on this foundation that society would be open and that and then one day someone showed me that there was even a tectonic plate underneath me that I didn't know is there and my parents are the same thing they've just always been there so I assume naively that they always will be but what would you say to what advice would you give me about well never take that for granted and never be scared of saying it I mean tell him now you know tell him on this he'll listen to this he's probably incredibly incredibly proud of you all you've achieved superseded his wildest dreams of what a son could be and he should be proud and tell him what would you tell your dad if he was listening maybe he was well I think I'd say thank you for the little things you know it's not that it's thanks for being there on that touchline when I was lines with you know thanks for not putting too much focus just on success and school reports and being top thank you putting focus on being kind and having a dream even though you know might not be the path most trodden you know but but go for it if it's your dream go for it and thanks for saying that never give up is the golden currency of life rather than you know good look sportsy talent or academic brilliance but you know I think um for you your dad your dad knows you know I'm sure he knows but never stop telling him you know because I think really parental relationship is one of those ones it's always going to be they're always going to be dynamics and struggles and fallouts and argument stuff but you can never articulate it too much that you love someone and you can never overestimate how much those simple awkward difficult got worse to say, mean.
[358] I mean, my great buddy said he really wanted to tell his dad one time he loved him, but he knew he was so English.
[359] He wouldn't, his father, but it would be a really difficult thing to say.
[360] And he eventually said, I'm going to say, he said, Dad, I just want to just let you know, I really love you.
[361] And his son, his dad goes, you've been drinking.
[362] You know, but the thing is, that's okay.
[363] His dad would go home that night, knowing that he hadn't been drinking.
[364] The guy, his son hadn't been drinking, but that was special.
[365] I think those awkward, it's back to that thing of doing sometimes the awkward difficult things, like the prayer with Obama, is a really good thing, you know, and I've tried to get better at this in my life of saying thank you and doing nice things and saying awkward but good things to people.
[366] I mean, I said it to my great buddy the other day, Rupert.
[367] I said to him, you know, we work a lot together and stuff.
[368] So I said, you know, forget the work side of the thing.
[369] You're such a lovely friend.
[370] And I literally saw, boom, I saw eyes well out just for a second, you know.
[371] And it was like, you know, oh, you're great, great, I know it's just keep, keep training or whatever we're doing.
[372] You know, but it's sometimes the awkward things are the good things.
[373] And I hope as I live and do more in life that I create more and more of those moments.
[374] Because there are many people, I, like I said, I stand on the shoulders of many giants that are the real heroes in my life.
[375] And I definitely consider my dad one.
[376] I'd definitely consider those I served alongside of the military many still friends to this day I mean I was with Corporal Williams my old squadron you know patrol commander who's now age you know 70 and lives in Mertha Tidville I was with him the other day for a walk in the Breckons just remind him I go you've been an amazing friend through life and I'll never get the belief you had in me in the early days thank you you know I consider the camera crew I work with in that same vein and never take those for granted.
[377] Your wonderful wife remember you saying once upon a time if you really want to know someone you've got to ask the wife and kids what they're like.
[378] You know, so true, isn't it?
[379] I mean...
[380] What if I asked your wife, what would she say?
[381] What would she say about the...
[382] Flawed?
[383] She'd probably say, flawed.
[384] Flored.
[385] Flored.
[386] But, you know...
[387] In what way?
[388] I think loyalty and sticking through things and knowing the real us and that we're not perfect and we're there for each other's is creates a power to it and I do look at relationships that are special like you know you're with your kids or with your wife it's like stained glass you know you need to they're really beautiful but you've got to protect them and you've got to protect them number one and I think it's so easy in life to do the opposite as actually we take that one for granted and we produce our best we produce our best for the at the dinner party to hold court and say the jokes and you know and it's a wrong way round you know it's a wrong way around you know it's a wrong way around save your best i think it's saying i've learned and still try and i don't always get right by any means but i know the goal is try and save my best for those i value the most which is the closest relationship to you with your wife and and with your kids you know make the save the best for them rather than kind of be tired and grumpy with them and then go out and then be on form you know it's trying to shift it the other way and it's counterculture but it's always going to make you happy you know and that's why i say if you want to know what someone's like ask their wife because don't don't look at the press reports and don't read their own stories about themselves you know i'm supposed to really know when the when the mask is off and when it's the other cameras aren't really they're the ones and it's not to say you know anyone's perfect but but try and save your best for them and I think if you do ask my wife what what I would love her to say I'd love her to say that I was loyal and kind and fought for them you know that's that's what I just have always tried to do in my life and prioritise them and many times in my life in the early days of TV especially there was so much pressure to you know be away too much and go and do that and do the extra episode and do the extra thing and that you know Discovery Channel are asking for one thing there and you end up burning, burning the things are most valuable because you're way too much, you're focusing on this and always creates damage.
[389] And I say, sorry for those times there's way too much.
[390] And that's why I thought so hard to start to produce and make our own shows where we own the format and we could decide.
[391] I go, no, it's our boy, it's half term.
[392] I'm not going to, even though it's, you know, Tom Cruise or whoever, I'm going to be at the half term for this.
[393] I want to put a shift onto the family and it's been a great thing it's been a key thing and the other stuff has work it'll always be there you know it'll be there and it's okay sometimes i fall into the trap of doing that so you know you get an offer come in and it's oh 50 grand or 100 grand to do this thing here it'll take one day but i'd scheduled to be in indonesia that day with my partner and i'm looking i'm going a hundred can i really turn down a hundred grand for one day just like hanging out on the sofa with my partner it's a new challenge that i've been contending with what i mean you've been through this well i think i think the answer is at the same time you're hustling and you've got to work and you've got to build it and you're building it especially when you get married and have kids you're building for their future and and all of us have this struggle but i think listening to that inner voice you know a little bit and there's this line isn't there that we walk where you know this side is family this side is work and the problem is if you only try and walk this line everyone's always asking favors you know it's just one -off.
[394] It's one event.
[395] It's one thing.
[396] Before you know it, you're spending too long on this side of the line and you're creating damage and loss.
[397] It's only damage.
[398] It's losing, you're creating loss on this side.
[399] And I think what I've learned is just shift the line a little bit.
[400] You know, make the line here.
[401] Oh, so make it even more family -orientated to start with.
[402] Yeah.
[403] So when you drift over the line a few times, which you're going to do, you're still in surplus.
[404] You're still in surplus.
[405] And I think the wisdom and experience of life is knowing, do you know what?
[406] No, we should go and do that.
[407] I will go and do that event, so that's important.
[408] But knowing also the ones to really protect it, it's often the little things, isn't it?
[409] Like a, you know, like the linesman story, you know, like that school play or that anniversary or whatever.
[410] And listen, I'm speaking from a place of flawed failure through many, many times, but I've learned through those things.
[411] Why do you say that?
[412] Because I've got it wrong many times.
[413] I've just been there and made mistakes and got them wrong.
[414] But I've learned through those, is that it's worth protecting the thing of most value in your life.
[415] And I think then with success, what happens, you'll reach a point where you don't need that extra 100 grand.
[416] You know, maybe when you're getting it, maybe you've got to hustle a bit.
[417] Maybe you've got to some makes and sacrifices.
[418] You do.
[419] To be successful, you have to sacrifice.
[420] Maybe, you know, and I was the same.
[421] I had to in those early days.
[422] You've got to go that extra mile.
[423] I'm not saying you don't, you do.
[424] But maybe you reach point where enough's enough.
[425] And then what you're really saying to your girlfriend or might be your wife or your kids at that stage is that I value you more than the hundred grand and when you're like successful you know it doesn't get any easier to say no becomes more important to say no amen I felt that speaking of work really compelled by um when I read that you're the chief scout I was like that's the CEO of the scouts right that's me is that not the CEO of the scouts effectively well I don't think I've ever I've never had an aspiration to be like a CEO.
[426] CEO has always felt very important, even though we are on the diary of a CEO.
[427] I never feel like a CEO.
[428] Greatest honour in my life has been to be a small cog in this incredible worldwide machine of 55 million young people bound together by a common set of values of respect and kindness and humility and adventure and determination and life skills and you know it's an amazing privilege i never take it for granted it's a worldwide force for good it truly is the scouting movement is unlike anything else out there and it really has been the greatest honor in my life and and i love it i can sum up my job as chief scout three words you know encourage encourage encourage you know and shine the light on those the the the young people because the stuff that they got get up to the missions they're on the the the efforts the endeavors the expert.
[429] What they do is amazing.
[430] They're leading the thing on climate change.
[431] They're leading in many refugee camps and disaster areas, helping, serving.
[432] And when you get 57 million young people around the world saying, I make a promise to be kind and helpful, you know, it's amazing.
[433] There's a power to that and it's brilliant.
[434] Do you think your career is complete?
[435] I hope not.
[436] I hope not.
[437] I'm still hustling.
[438] I'm still.
[439] I'm still.
[440] I like the struggle.
[441] I like the fight.
[442] I like the ambition.
[443] We've built a brilliant team.
[444] We're pushing many endeavors, you know, away from just the TV shows.
[445] You know, I'm super proud of our B military fit, our veterans fitness business.
[446] You know, we have our theme parks, our adventure parks at the NEC and we're opening up new ones around the world.
[447] We have the scout staff.
[448] You know, we have education initiatives.
[449] I love it.
[450] For me, it's about using this God -given platform we're being given through the TV shows to try and do exactly the same as we do with the TV shows, which is just a shine of light on you and say, look what you can do.
[451] Will it ever be complete?
[452] And I hope not.
[453] I think it's like my bucket list gets longer and longer as I live in life.
[454] It's like the more things, we can do that and we could help do this.
[455] And I always want to live with that eyes wide open, you know, willing to be all in, willing to fail, willing to put myself up with great people, have that focus mission of trying to empower other people, helping other people to find their adventures in life, through books or TV shows or whatever to like be able to go that extra mile to be able to dig deep to understand the storms of life come but sometimes you've got to be dogged and determined to keep going I want to bring that adventure spirit to people every day I live on this earth that's the goal to no end to no end I think I mean maybe I'll finish the TV shows one day you know that that will naturally end in due course I can't I mean to be honest I never thought I'd still be doing it now you know but with we're doing more TV shows and ever before we're doing a new network show on US TV the next month.
[456] We're starting season eight to running while.
[457] You know, we're still out there gunning it and going and I love that.
[458] But the TV shows will end, but the adventures won't, you know, God willing, you know, I hope when I'm old guy, I'm going to have loads of adventures with my kids and eventually with grandkids and sharing that adventure spirit.
[459] Because, as you know, you know, adventure is truly a state of mind, whatever you're doing, whatever, you know, my wife would, jokes that I'm going to be in the old people's home, go, come on, come on, we're going to do it, we're going to go over the, you know, and I think that's a state of mind that is about pushing the boundaries and, you know, having that resilience and that kind of wide our gratitude for life and the connections.
[460] And because the truth is, the world is amazing.
[461] And it's a huge privilege.
[462] You look at everything that's happening around the world, there's hardship and struggling and battle and loss.
[463] And the fact that we get to, you know, have our families and have something we love to do and that we're safe and we live in this kind of a society that has a rule of law and all these things are so easy to take for granted we must never take that for granted we've got to live with that eyes wide open thank you and keep that adventure state of mind firing bright that far inside shining bright never give up the name of your recent book um this book i got the sense that it was slightly more special than previous books to you and that it had taken five years to write this book that you wrote it all yourself?
[464] It took a long time you know, I was reluctant to write it I wrote an autobiography called Mud Sweat and Tears originally but the truth is you know that and that book did well you know it did 20 weeks at number one and I always kind of felt that I'm not going to beat that you know I'm not going to do another but we're done but that book really ended as TV started and so many of the questions that I get asked by my kids and by people in the street, always like the behind the scenes, what was it like on this?
[465] What was it like taking that person or what about the struggles there or whatever?
[466] And in a way, they're the stories that I wanted my boys to understand, you know, and I think my kids are kind of grown up and seen the good side, seeing the things that have worked, but aren't always aware of the many failures behind those successes.
[467] And I wanted to be able to share all of that and share the things that actually made the difference.
[468] And I wanted to write it myself and, you know, be honest in it and so it took a long time to write but i'm i'm really proud of it and i think it was always going to be called never give up you know it's at a time where i think the world's coming through an incredibly continues to be an incredibly tough time and i think that spirit of relentless determination is needed more than ever with all people and young people especially so i'm proud of the stories and and uh proud to call it never give up when i wrote my book i i didn't realize this until i'd actually much more a learning process than it was a preaching process.
[469] Because it is a journey writing a book.
[470] Is there something that you learned that you didn't know before you started on that journey of writing, never give up, that was profound or a problem you solved from putting pen to paper that you hadn't solved before that comes to mind?
[471] Well, I've definitely learned of the writing or speaking to be good.
[472] It has to be difficult.
[473] It has to be painful.
[474] You know, do we see the person who stands up and stands on stage and gives a talk and loves the sound of their own voice and it's just like it's a ball they're a ball you know but the person who's this is hard to articulate or talk about but for what it's worth this is where you know you're there and it's the same with writing I think it's got to be vulnerable and it's got to have that struggle to it and that's why it took me a while what do you find what did you feel well yeah for me there was couple of questions that when I started a chapter, I hadn't actually answered them yet.
[475] And by the end of the chapter, I'd answered the question, but it was because of that process.
[476] Is it easy for you to be vulnerable?
[477] Are you someone, because we only think of someone that's been in the SAS and this, you know, again, they're talking about the public stereotype.
[478] He had tough guy, resilience.
[479] Vulnerability seems to be the antithesis of that for a lot of people, the complete opposite.
[480] How have you been, you know, we talk about toxic masculinity a lot now.
[481] I sat here with Terry Cruz, the actor, big tough guy and his new book, Tough, which is about toxic masculinity.
[482] What's your relationship with vulnerability?
[483] Well, first of all, Terry Cruz hero and one of our running wild guests, actually.
[484] I took him on one last year and he was like with you, very honest about some of this stuff.
[485] Vulnerability was hard initially, but I think it's where life is, you know, and like with, like when you climb any big mountain, you know, where you rope to someone 24 hours a day, it brings you close, but it also is where the bonds are, you know and when you when you're vulnerable with someone it creates a connection you know you and me probably feel more connected by being the vulnerability than the look at this you know vulnerability creates bonds and creates strength but like all these things there's a pain and a takes a strength to do it but I think um I'm not scared to show that you know I've got nothing to prove and I don't want people to think it's just all heroic you know I want people know that the that it's just there's been many struggles through it all but these things have quietly helped me. And I always think people have two faces of their life.
[486] One is like you don't want the world to see who you really are.
[487] You're out there.
[488] You project this kind of image.
[489] And then the second half is you no longer care.
[490] You just want to be honest.
[491] And when it honest, there's there's an amazing bonds with the really people you want to create bonds with.
[492] And some people have that realization at 25 and they live the rest of life in this empowered way.
[493] Some people don't reach that point until they're 85.
[494] They live the whole life with this mask.
[495] And it's only, when they're with that maybe nurse and a nursing the first person they're actually being honest and vulnerable and broken with but you eventually realize it you know and the goal i suppose of life is to get at this place early because it's where the wealth is it's where the it's where the happiness is because you're not having to pretend any longer and you can form those deeper relationships as you said which is exactly what happens when we have these conversations there you go we have a closing tradition on the podcast which is our last guest asks a question for the next guest.
[496] So the question is, if you had to predict, where will you be this time in five years time?
[497] Wow.
[498] The truth is, I hope to be doing the same sort of thing in the sense that living this mission of trying to empower other people to find their adventures through all these different means, you know, through the TV shows or the books or whatever.
[499] You know, I love that mission.
[500] You know, it starts with my relationship with my kids and it extends to scouts and it extends beyond that from there.
[501] So I hope to have that same mission, maybe at a slightly slower pace.
[502] You know, we film a lot of shows at the moment and it's away a lot and it's, you know, it's definitely has full -on elements to it.
[503] So maybe kind of dial down the pace of it, but same mission and still protecting family first, you know, beyond before work, before even that mission, protect family first and keep that, those relationships strong.
[504] you know my body aches every day i got many scars like an old man getting up in the morning but uh i don't apologize for any of those things and i think by the end of my life if i can i don't want to arrive in a perfectly preserved body is that quote i want to come skidding in sideways covered in scars screaming yo what a ride you know and long may that spirit continue yeah thank you so much for the time and generosity i've got to say this does really feel like a huge honour for me because of how infrequently you do anything like this.
[505] So I just want to communicate how much of an honour this genuinely feels like for me. And I feel very special.
[506] And I feel like our team are very honored to have you here and to have this conversation with you.
[507] You're someone that's achieved an unbelievable amount and for you to be so honest.
[508] And because it would be so easy for you to say to play into the narrative that you have superpowers.
[509] But it's almost impossible to get you to indulge in that.
[510] And as you say, that makes the things you've achieved so attainable for everybody that's listening, including myself.
[511] And if it is something that I can learn and grow in a muscle I can build, then that for me is incredibly empowering.
[512] And empowerment is so evidently at the center of all the work you do with the scouts, with your new book, never go up, which I highly recommend everybody reads.
[513] The paperback is out on the 9th of June, but it's really, you can tell you've written it.
[514] You can tell that it's come from a place of real authenticity and someone who is willing to tell you the truth.
[515] And we need a lot more of that.
[516] So thank you.
[517] I'll never be able to say thank you enough for coming and doing this.
[518] And yeah, thanks for the inspiration over the you've made you've empowered me just in this conversation yeah i so calm well likewise you're doing an amazing job and thank you your dad he will definitely know it i'm gonna i'm gonna text him i'm gonna send him my voice note after this so thank you bear thanks thank you