What To Do When Family Behaves Badly

[0] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] Dr. John Deloney, number one bestselling author, Ramsey Personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, is my co -host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money.

[2] It is a free call, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

[3] The phone numbers 3, 825 -5 -2 -2 -5.

[4] Thank you for joining us.

[5] Kelly in Denver starts this hour.

[6] Hi, Kelly.

[7] Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

[8] Hi, Mr. Ramsey.

[9] Thank you for taking my call.

[10] My husband and I are debt -free, live in a beautiful place, Grand Jack, Colorado.

[11] About 20 months ago, sorry if I'm talking fast, we had to go no contact with his very abusive family.

[12] after I was assaulted.

[13] Whoa.

[14] Who assaulted you?

[15] His mother and his brother.

[16] Physically assaulted you?

[17] Yes, they assaulted us when we decided we were no longer going to take their abuse.

[18] My husband and I moved to Colorado from California 10 years ago to help take care of his mother and father moved right next door.

[19] They gifted us a property of land in exchange for doing that.

[20] And two weeks after getting here, we realized we'd made a horrible mistake, but we were kind of stuck.

[21] Anyway, back in 1993, they set up an irrevocable trust with the three siblings, and it came to my home or to our home, which it wasn't supposed to, and I saw the specs on it and everything, being $300 ,000 for each child when the passing of their parents.

[22] but if they lived to be 100, they wouldn't get it.

[23] So when all of this horrible stuff happened, my husband even attempted suicide after, I'm sorry, after this happened 20 months ago because we had come here to help take care of them and were treated really badly.

[24] Anyway, we are worried that the irrevocable trust is no longer available because we know that he was cut out of the will for not allowing his family to treat him and I badly anymore.

[25] Are you still living next door?

[26] Actually, she sold her house.

[27] That's pretty much when the real problem started.

[28] She had decided to sell her house after my father -in -law died in 2021.

[29] And she was demanding that we sell our home that we built on this little piece of property next door to them.

[30] And when we told her, no, we weren't going to sell it.

[31] She wanted to split the money of the house and everything with the other two older siblings.

[32] And we said, no, we're not going to do that.

[33] And it was incredible.

[34] Okay.

[35] So you're still living the property.

[36] She sold the property next door.

[37] Where did they move to?

[38] She moved, she moved in with her other, one of her other children in Lake Havasu, Arizona.

[39] Oh, way of, a good distance away.

[40] Yeah, exactly.

[41] Good, praise God.

[42] We were granted permanent restraining or against them as well.

[43] And so do you guys have, you have an income, do you make a living?

[44] We're on retire, we have my husband's retirement, and we collect Social Security as well, and he does, how old are you?

[45] Handyman work.

[46] I'm 66, he's 69.

[47] Oh, wow.

[48] But we retired in 2012.

[49] So this is like an 80 -year -old woman attacking you?

[50] Actually, a 92 -year -old woman.

[51] These people are freaks.

[52] Well, our new neighbor happens to be a forensic psychologist, and he has been so helpful in talking my husband and I get through most of what we've gone through.

[53] Okay.

[54] Okay.

[55] So, okay, so you have a piece of ground.

[56] You're 66 years old.

[57] You have Social Security coming in, and you have what else coming in.

[58] And it's a disability.

[59] Well, he has, yes, he has bipolar one disorder, but he never collected disability or anything.

[60] He always worked.

[61] We owned a business together.

[62] No, do you have income coming in?

[63] That's what I'm trying to get at, honey.

[64] Okay.

[65] Do you have social security coming in?

[66] What else do you have coming in?

[67] retirement and his handyman work he makes about $800 a month but we're fine okay good you're fine so so here's my point um it's not worth it well that's that's why that was what we we had decided it's not worth it when we could you possibly hold them to an irrevocable trust depending on how it's worded what state it was in I guess you got a copy of it you could take it to an attorney and get legal advice if you want to do that you can uh yeah for me it falls under the heading of life's too short um screw it you're 66 go on with your life oh my god exactly and that's what we've been doing my my husband except the part where you call me and ask me if you're because you're all worried about the trust that part where you're not going on with your life that well that didn't come up until just recently and my husband because he lived in a family where money was the manipulation.

[68] Yeah, so don't let them just forget about it.

[69] Don't worry about it.

[70] Yeah, walk away.

[71] If you get a check in the mail after she passes away, then great.

[72] But I would plan my life as though that money is not coming.

[73] And I would dust my sandals off and go on to the next thing because it's just not worth your soul.

[74] Yeah, yeah.

[75] And that's what we've been trying to do.

[76] And like I said, we're debt -free.

[77] We have a good life.

[78] We have good friends.

[79] Yeah.

[80] And if our kids like hell, But it's been, it's been an awful, awful thing in walking.

[81] Where are your kids?

[82] You know, where's your kids?

[83] I've got two sons in California.

[84] I've got a daughter in Arizona and a daughter in Texas.

[85] You just miss them because they're distance.

[86] Yeah, we were extremely close family, and we left them to come do what we be here.

[87] But you're still connected to them relationally.

[88] Oh, absolutely.

[89] They just have to, like most people, they don't live in the same town with you.

[90] Can you sell your place and go be by your kids?

[91] You're speaking as though you're not adults and that you're trapped.

[92] That was our original idea was to come here when his parents passed.

[93] No, no, no, no. That's all behind.

[94] That's all behind.

[95] Don't go backwards.

[96] Don't go forward.

[97] Put the house that you live in.

[98] What keeps you from selling your house in?

[99] For sale.

[100] Moving to Texas or California.

[101] Live near your children.

[102] It's impossible now because of the cost of, well, the cost of living, we are, the home that we live in is worth just a little under three or a little over 300 ,000 and if we move back to california where the grandkids are there's just no way we don't have the um we wouldn't be debt free and we want to we want to live debt free so we do go see them so that's not a problem okay so buy some marilyn tickets and just head over there and life's good yeah i really i mean you could go you could you've got a copy of the trust you could go get legal advice and um and uh it depends on how it's worded honestly the weird thing about an irrevocable trust is it may be revocable um it's uh depending on who who's where in the thing what's how it's in charge who's in charge that kind of stuff but really um it's um yeah i i don't know i don't know who put it together i don't know how it's written and without reading it i wouldn't have a clue so you could go get legal advice if you want to but every step you take towards quote defending yourself unquote puts them all back in your head rent free again, and I really wouldn't let them back in your head.

[103] Think of it this way.

[104] Every conversation you have, every thing you Google trying to figure this out is a choice to be miserable in the present.

[105] It's not worth it.

[106] It's just not worth it.

[107] I wouldn't spend it.

[108] Because even if you find out you're completely legally right, you might have to spend a tremendous amount of effort and money to force it.

[109] This is The Ramsey Show.

[110] Hey, when you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example, it might seem weird at first, and that is totally okay.

[111] We want you to be weird if that means doing things intentionally, including how you spend your health care dollars.

[112] And one way to be intentional is with Christian health care ministries.

[113] CHM isn't health insurance.

[114] They're a health cost -sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families, like yours, take care of health care costs without sacrificing their freedom.

[115] Find out more and join at ch -ministries .org slash budget.

[116] That's ch -ministries .org slash budget.

[117] Dr. John Deloney -Rams.

[118] The personality is my co -host.

[119] Thanks for joining us at AAA 8255 -225.

[120] Daniel is with us.

[121] Daniel's in New York City.

[122] Hi, Daniel.

[123] How are you?

[124] I'm good.

[125] How are you?

[126] Thanks for taking my call.

[127] Sure.

[128] What's up?

[129] So I'm 25 years old.

[130] I make $100 ,000 for my W -2 job.

[131] I have a couple rentals that I cash flow about $40 ,000 a year from.

[132] I'm thinking about taking a year off from work next year to go get my master's in Europe.

[133] I studied abroad there five years ago when I was in college, and I haven't really stopped.

[134] thinking about it since.

[135] So my question is, is this financially something that would be smart to do?

[136] Or am I better off basically continuing grinding in my career and working my way up to make more money?

[137] What's your master is going to be in?

[138] It would be an MBA with a focus in construction management or project management.

[139] Okay.

[140] Well, an MBA is an excellent degree.

[141] the Europe part sounds like a freaking vacation.

[142] Yeah, it sounds like you're looking for an excuse to go spend a year overseas.

[143] So that's partly, I mean...

[144] You and I both know you can get an MBA and keep your job.

[145] Yeah, it is more for spending time in Europe.

[146] I've always considered maybe moving there long term, but that's not something I'm 100 % sure I want to do.

[147] And I'm aware that I can make more money here in the state so it's kind of on the sense like i don't know if it's smart to to give up you know that hundred thousand dollars i would make that year no it's not to basically sit in this out no you're too old for a gap year you're like a grown man and stuff yeah no that's not smart at all now if you want to go to europe and live in europe and work and get your MBA in europe and make 100 ,000 there.

[148] Sure, if that's part of your life plan, but I just want to take a year -long vacation and blame it on education.

[149] No. And I'm going to suggest you're using the wrong metrics for a good life.

[150] You keep asking, is this smart?

[151] Is this smart?

[152] Is this good financially?

[153] No, not at all.

[154] Doesn't mean it's wrong, but you got to just take, like Dave, you got to ownership of, I want to quit everything and I want to go have a life over there.

[155] You're trying to do everything all at the same time and make it work, and it's just not going to work like that.

[156] You either got to take the jump and go get in the ring and just start swinging or make peace with your life in New York.

[157] So if you got an MBA in construction management and wanted to live in Europe, can you apply that to it in a career there?

[158] Yes, I just know the salary won't be what I'm making here.

[159] No, but if you want to live there, that's what you want to do, right?

[160] Right, right.

[161] I just, the thought of living there sounds good to me. for me, the one -year master's thing was a good way to basically test it and make sure, hey, this is something I want to commit to before I do fully move out there and get a job.

[162] You don't have anything to gauge it on because you're not actually going to be doing anything.

[163] You're taking a vacation.

[164] So if you go over there and set up life and don't like it, quit and come back.

[165] So go spend a year at a new job working and getting your MBA at night like you would normally do when you're 28 and like that's the best pro some of the best MBA programs out there anyway or adult based at MBA programs and and study if you want to study in Europe and work in Europe and then if you're there a year and a half two years and you don't like it quit move back to the states apply your MBA then that's not dumb but there's a there's an element of escapism and childishness to the way you're laying this out that I'm not going to endorse for you I don't think it's good for you.

[166] I think you're trying to find something that's not there.

[167] Or you're trying to be a boxer without getting hit.

[168] This isn't how the world works, man. Either go to decide I want to live in Europe.

[169] Like, what's going to stop if you go there after two years you hate it?

[170] You realize it was a bad idea.

[171] It's go back home, right?

[172] Come back with your MBA and get back to work, doing something else.

[173] But I'm going to go over there on vacation and just kind of not have any responsibility.

[174] See, what you have is, you have a selective memory about how, cool it was when you were there.

[175] You forgot all the crappy stuff when you were there before.

[176] And so you want to go back to this unicorn dust thing again.

[177] And no, I'm, you know, everybody has this, I mean, you know, Uncle Rico had a selective memory about his high school quarterback days, you know.

[178] No, that was for real.

[179] Dave.

[180] He got screwed by his coach.

[181] We all have, we all have selective memories about.

[182] No. And people say, well, the pictures of my life were when I was, oh, crap, no. Uncle Rico got robbed.

[183] If coach had just put him in.

[184] Yeah.

[185] Just giving him a shot.

[186] Just give him a shot, coach.

[187] But yeah, but no, really, I think I'm just being your older, ugly uncle who tells you stuff, you know, and that's me. Because I love you and I want you to win.

[188] I don't, I wouldn't tell my own son to do what you're doing.

[189] I would tell my own son to go work.

[190] I think he'll find a better choice of life and get a better sampling of what it'll actually be like.

[191] You're not sampling what it would be like when you're going over there as a college student.

[192] Absolutely.

[193] So you got to have some skin in the game, man. Which means you got a risk that's not working out and me coming home.

[194] Yeah.

[195] So what?

[196] You can get on it.

[197] I mean, if you've got an MBA and construction management, you can come back to states and make six figures.

[198] Yes.

[199] You can, in construction management.

[200] You can do that.

[201] And so, and you don't have to live in New York City to do it.

[202] You live in almost any city, major city in America and do that.

[203] So an MBA and construction management, by the way, Daniel, is an excellent field of study.

[204] Congratulations.

[205] I like that.

[206] I like your idea to go get an MBA.

[207] There's nothing wrong with that.

[208] it's some of the most I think John you can probably as well you've got a Ph .D. in higher education you can comment on this better than I can but my practical experience tells me that an MBA of all the graduate degrees probably has the best ROI.

[209] It's some of the studies that I saw back in the day and I don't know how new they are said if you get into an NBA program go because it can help but a lot of those things have circled out and said if you're working while you're in an NBA program, the lessons that you can take from the classroom and apply them that in your current life is very beneficial.

[210] And one of the other benefits of an NBA program is your classmates.

[211] And like that one of them is going to go start a business and is going to remember you from class.

[212] It becomes an incredible networking opportunity, which suggests to me if you also, in the loneliest generation we've created for ourselves, if you have a group of business men and women that you meet with regularly just to see how the world is going and what are you experiencing and how things going you might see some of those same benefits outside of an NBA program but if my son came to me and said dad I'm getting an NBA I would cheer him all the way and we'd figure out how to how to make that work but it's a great degree versus a PhD in left -handed puppetry or German polka history yeah I mean German polka history's got some legs to it it can I mean if you can dance right man and and play the accordion at the same time yeah and you know pat your head and rub your stomach yeah Ethan's in New Orleans hi Ethan welcome the Ramsey show Good afternoon, gentlemen.

[213] Hey, what's up?

[214] I'm in Baby Step 2, and I'm curious if you would suggest I go into a proverbial stork mode, given that I live in a hurricane -prone area, and the deductible, despite having good home insurance, the deductible for my plan in the event of a named Hurricane hits, it was $10 ,000.

[215] So the thought I had was, do I go into stork mode until I have, that 10 ,000 saved up.

[216] Well, it's not stork mode.

[217] You just, do you want to do you want to do a different plan?

[218] That's not.

[219] Stork mode is if you're having a kid.

[220] Storks don't bring hurricanes.

[221] Um, no, if I live there, I wouldn't.

[222] What's your household income?

[223] Uh, 200 ,000.

[224] Yeah.

[225] How much do you owe?

[226] I owe about $80 ,000.

[227] Yeah.

[228] no no i wouldn't you make 200 000 you can come up with 10 grand very very quickly in the event of an actual event hitting new orleans which averages less than once every 10 years so um i mean the last major one was katrina right well i so i i've known the closest city the last one for us was ida which was two years ago yeah okay then it's going to be quite a while before you've seen the one probably you got the weather channel on watching barbadoes getting hammered don't you yes sir Yeah.

[229] No, you make 200k.

[230] You can cover 10 grand.

[231] You could figure it out.

[232] It'll work out.

[233] You're going to be all right.

[234] Turn the weather channel off.

[235] This is The Ramsey Show.

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[251] They just flashed the picture up on our YouTube screen of the cruise we're doing next spring.

[252] And the people that are going on this cruise, that are friends of ours, are so much fun.

[253] Manit Shahan.

[254] I had dinner with her the other night.

[255] We had a friend that had a special dinner, and I was invited, and she ended up sitting next to me. And she's on the famous chef, celebrity chef on Iron Chefs and all.

[256] And she's got a bunch of restaurants here in Nashville.

[257] She's going to be on the Ramsey Cruise with us next year.

[258] That's going to be a blast.

[259] She's a hoot to hang out with.

[260] She is.

[261] Stephen Curtis Chapman, world -renowned Christian artist, 60 -something Dove Awards, several Grammy Awards, incredible entertainer, incredible talent.

[262] incredible man is a good friend of ours, Sharon's and mine, and he's going to be on the cruise with us.

[263] And, you know, a few other folks that do comedy, a few folks that do illusions and magic.

[264] And, man, it's pretty stinking incredible.

[265] And all the Ramsey personalities are going to be with us.

[266] Dina Carter is going to be with us.

[267] She's a famous, of course, country music artist, strawberry wine.

[268] You may remember that song.

[269] And so she'll be there.

[270] She's an incredible talent, too.

[271] It's going to be a week -long cruise on a world -class, top -of -the -line, Holland -America cruise ship.

[272] We've got the entire ship for Ramsey people.

[273] It's the Live Like No One Else Cruise.

[274] Do not come on this cruise if you are in Baby Step 2 trying to get out of debt.

[275] You should not be going on vacation if you're on Baby Step 2 trying to get out of debt.

[276] If you don't have your emergency fund in place.

[277] But if you're at Baby Step 4 and Bally, you should not be going on vacation, beyond.

[278] You're investing.

[279] Now you're starting to do some things with your money.

[280] You're starting to do a vacations.

[281] You're starting to eat out again.

[282] And you want to have a milestone event.

[283] This is a place you can celebrate.

[284] We will spend the week celebrating you.

[285] We're going to do events on the ship.

[286] All the Ramsey personalities will be doing talks.

[287] I'll be on the ship for the entire week.

[288] All the Ramsey personalities will.

[289] My wife Sharon's going to be with us.

[290] We're going to stop at Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas.

[291] It's March 22nd through the 29th.

[292] There are not that many.

[293] um sweets left not that many rooms left but you can still get a suite but still get a room if you get online right now you can put up as little as a six hundred dollar deposit and hold the spot again it's march of next year and we'd love to have you the thing will be sold out within probably a month or so something like that the current rate go to ramsysolutions .com slash cruise the live like no one else cruise john that's going to be fun hanging out with our folk i'm not have a blast it's a good time gonna be great Nicole is with us.

[294] She's in Cincinnati.

[295] Hi, Nicole.

[296] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[297] Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

[298] Sure.

[299] What's up?

[300] So I am getting married in two weeks, and I'm very excited.

[301] Yay!

[302] We're excited for you, Nicole.

[303] How old are you?

[304] I'm 31.

[305] Congratulations.

[306] That's awesome.

[307] Thank you.

[308] So I have no debt other than my home, and then my fiancé has no debt whatsoever.

[309] he will be moving in to this house with me once we get married here in two weeks.

[310] He has been backing up cash with the idea of buying his own home, obviously prior to our relationship.

[311] And so I guess my question is about he's wanting to chunk that cash at the house and pay down the house as quickly as possible.

[312] Cool.

[313] We're also, I feel like, a bit behind on retirement savings.

[314] So my question's kind of about that.

[315] And for him, he's never been in debt before, ever in his life.

[316] And so he's a little nervous about marrying into some debt, meaning my home.

[317] So I think that's why he is really focused on that.

[318] All are fine.

[319] This is cool.

[320] What are you guys going to make as a household once you're married?

[321] What's your household income going to be?

[322] We each make about 75 a year.

[323] Okay, so 100 and a lot.

[324] And what do you owe on the house?

[325] I owe 188.

[326] And how much cash does a fiancé have stacked?

[327] He has about 90 ,000 in addition to his emergency fund.

[328] Okay, and you have an emergency fund too?

[329] I do, yeah.

[330] Okay, well, we don't need two of them.

[331] We'll need one.

[332] So will your emergency fund be big enough to suffice for the family emergency fund once you're married?

[333] We could probably add a little bit to it.

[334] I have about 15 right now.

[335] You have how much?

[336] $15 ,000.

[337] Okay, and how much does he have?

[338] He has about 20, I believe.

[339] Okay.

[340] All right.

[341] So easily we throw $100 at the $188.

[342] Agreed?

[343] Okay.

[344] Versus like catching up on some retirement savings?

[345] No, we don't do any retirement.

[346] You're going to put 15 % of your household income into retirement.

[347] If you're not doing that, get that set up after you're married.

[348] Automatically going into 401Ks and Roth IRAs, no more.

[349] That's enough.

[350] That's plenty.

[351] You're only 31, and you're going to get the house paid off very quickly, and then you're going to kick up, and as soon as the house is paid off, you can put more than 15 % in.

[352] But you're not behind.

[353] You're fine.

[354] Okay, okay.

[355] So after chunking his money at the house, how aggressive should we be?

[356] I think he is a little more on the anxious side, more conservative side, and he wants to kind of act like we're in baby step two and, like, really pay down this house in like a year and a half versus I'm thinking it would be okay if we took a little longer than that what are your thoughts probably right between you two we don't tell folks to be a gazelle intense and baby steps four or five and six we tell you to be intentional and so that means in one two and three you're not on vacation you're not going out to eat that's intense no lifestyle lifestyle is scorched earth no life you're getting out of debt right you're not there you're at baby steps four five and six and you're intentional which means you're going to want to do some other things you may need to upgrade a car you may actually want to go on a vacation you may want to spend some of your money on fun and you should okay okay so let's just let's just throw it let's throw a couple numbers here okay you make 150 if you put a hundred you said you had 188 on the mortgage okay so if you put a hundred on it that's 88 48 48 44 out of 150 would be done in two years and that means you guys would be living on over a hundred thousand a year that would give you plenty of room for other stuff right yeah yeah that's true that also means you have a paid off house at the age of 33 that's true you know who else has that nobody in America yeah I never expected that because you know me you know prior to getting married I never was on that track well you both you You both have been very conservative and wise.

[357] Neither one of you have got a complete mess.

[358] You're both in good shape.

[359] You've done a great job, both of you.

[360] And now you're talking about this ahead of time.

[361] That's a good sign.

[362] It's a good sign for your relationship.

[363] It's a good sign for your probability of building wealth.

[364] And so if you put it on a two to a three -year schedule to finish off the other 88, throw 100 at it, that should give you plenty of wiggle room to have a good life.

[365] Okay.

[366] So just 15 to retirement.

[367] we don't need to do extra to catch up there and then the rest of our extra money, quote unquote, can go towards the house.

[368] Right.

[369] If you put 15 % of $150 ,000, so 225 towards retirement, and that's all you ever do from 31 to 65, you'll have about $10 million.

[370] Okay.

[371] So you're fine.

[372] You're fine.

[373] Okay.

[374] You're going to be worth a lot of money with a track you're on if you continue to be intentional.

[375] And I appreciate it.

[376] nervousness because it's moving you towards positive things, but we don't want to let it go too far.

[377] Here's what's going to help him, because I have that same bent that I want to treat a mortgage like Baby Step 2 also.

[378] Put a plan down on a piece of paper, and you all agree on that plan.

[379] So he wants it done in a year and a half, and you're like, three or four years will be fine, say two years.

[380] Or two and a half.

[381] Or 26 months.

[382] I don't care.

[383] Put it down and then he'll exhale and go, okay, now I've got something I can work towards and it keeps that tornado from just cycling up on it.

[384] Oh, and I would also agree as a part of that little.

[385] We will go out once a week.

[386] Well, I say no, as a pinky swear and spit shake, okay, with our current numbers, we're going to put 100 on it and lay it out.

[387] But if we got like a found bonus or a, you know, granny passed away, leaves them $10 ,000, any extra found money we're throwing and we could speed the schedule up on paying off the house.

[388] I like that.

[389] But also, you get to say we're going to have some fun and go on a date because we're newlyweds and we're going to go on vacation upgrade that junkie butt car you're driving i don't know it's okay long as you're paying cash for all of it and you got the wiggle room to do it and you know and it fits in your plan so i don't care if it's 26 or 28 or 24 months somewhere in there you're that's intentional that's not intense and that's a great band name junkie butt car james note that oh brother We have a battle of the bands here at Ramsey, and they always get their names from weird things I say on the air.

[390] This is the Ramsey show.

[391] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[392] Hey, good folks, the back -to -school madness is upon us.

[393] It's hitting us right now.

[394] We've got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[395] My family's schedule is so packed, and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church.

[396] and home projects.

[397] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[398] Here's what I've learned.

[399] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[400] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

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[413] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[414] Thanks for joining us, guys.

[415] Our question of the day comes from Jen in Tennessee.

[416] All right, Jen writes, I came to this country years ago with nothing.

[417] I've worked hard, don't have any debt, my house is paid off.

[418] That's just stopped there.

[419] That's so great.

[420] And I'm investing.

[421] Growing up with nothing and being so hungry and so poor created a scarcity mindset even now that I'm in a place where I have all the necessities that I need.

[422] Sometimes it's hard to wrap my mind around it and it's hard to not feel guilty sometimes.

[423] I would love to hear your wisdom and advice about how I can develop, a spirit of contentment.

[424] I have grown up my whole life in the States, Dave, but I identify with this.

[425] Okay.

[426] Like just that sense of feeling guilty sometimes, feeling like, why me, like that sense of something's not right.

[427] And it's tough, man. How have you wrapped your head around that all these years?

[428] Well, I think the, 90 % of solving a problem, realizing there is one.

[429] So she's identified that she should not have this, but how do I?

[430] So how do I not?

[431] You know, I feel discontent, and I should be in a place where I'm content.

[432] I feel guilty, and I don't know, I didn't do anything wrong, so what am I guilty of?

[433] There's nothing to be charged with here.

[434] You didn't do anything.

[435] There's not a crime committed.

[436] You didn't wrong anyone.

[437] No one got hurt.

[438] You didn't steal.

[439] your way into this position you work your way into the position so um you know the the uh the thing the only thing i've ever been able to come up with is um that that has helped me a lot uh is i balance my um consumption with my generosity yep me too if i increase if i feel a tinge of i don't feel smart and I work really, really hard, but the blessings in my life are beyond my smart or hard work, okay?

[440] I mean, it would just be, it would not, that's not humility and that's not false spiritual pride or something.

[441] It's not a humble brag.

[442] It's just simply an, uh, an intellectual observation that I'm, I have a life that is beyond my smart or work ethic.

[443] I got good smart.

[444] I got good work ethic.

[445] But my life is beyond it, okay?

[446] So I'm better than I deserve.

[447] Those of us that are Christians, we call that the blessings of the Lord, okay, which is beyond what I did.

[448] I played my part, but it's beyond what I did.

[449] And so you can say I'm better than I deserve.

[450] And that's like, people are, you ought to be positive and so you deserve it.

[451] I, it wouldn't be accurate.

[452] I am better than I deserve.

[453] And also, it's a statement of grace doctrinally, I'm better than I deserve because I deserve hell and I'm not going because of Jesus.

[454] Okay.

[455] So, all that stuff.

[456] But the, aside from that, the, when I, Sharon and I are able, I remember the first time I tithed, because I give a tenth of my income to my church, the first time I ever made $100 ,000, and I gave a $10 ,000 check.

[457] I was like, oh, my, there's so much money!

[458] In one lick, I mean, one time I, I like when to kind of announce it, you know, like this is going in the plate, boys and girls, look at me. This is happening, 10 freaking thousand dollars, you know, I mean, it kind of went, all that stuff went through my head, but, um, but it's just a normal rhythm of our life.

[459] So we automatically did it, but it was still like, wow, that just happened.

[460] And, uh, and I've continued to have those feelings with, um, that, that now we're able to give more than we used to make, you know, a lot more than we used to make in a given year, you know, and so, um, and generous, so generosity helps me go, okay, it's part of the rhythm of my life and it helps me to not, quote unquote feel guilty i don't ever really feel guilty i've not had that issue um uh but i do have the sense of i'm not i'm i've gotten more than i deserve but i don't feel guilt is not the word for me it's just um unearned blessings that's different than guilt you know what i'm saying yeah the word that i hang on it that has stuck with me and that has been very helpful is practicing so Jen was surviving her whole life and now she gets to practice giving she gets to practice enjoying Godliness with contentment is great gain so if you've never done it before so if Jen was asked to start learning a new language or Jen was asked to start doing gymnastics she would stumble and fall and hurt herself and sprain and ankle it's part of it same as giving same as contentment so when I remember I felt so guilty a couple years ago buying a guitar.

[461] It sat on me. And so I went and found somebody to give a silly amount of money to, like to donate to a thing as not a way to offset it, but as a way to practice, I feel this.

[462] And then I'm going to not just stew on this and not be dramatic, but I'm going to be extra generous.

[463] And that's been a way to balance it for me. You know, when I practiced that, I can remember precisely the first time I practiced that.

[464] That's interesting.

[465] because I was driving a Mercedes that had 260 ,000 miles on it.

[466] And it looked nice, but it was a piece of crap.

[467] It was completely used up.

[468] And a guy that was working for me at the time, I was probably worth a couple million dollars, something like that.

[469] A guy was working for me at the time.

[470] What was in the car, we jumped in the car, and we were driving the Chattanooga from Nashville, which is a couple hours south of Nashville.

[471] And stupid thing overheated.

[472] And so I'm off the side of the road at the dadgum truck stop rummaging through the dumpster trying to find a bottle to get, you know, to get some water and pour over the radiator because I'm a redneck.

[473] I know how to fix the stupid car and keep it going, right?

[474] I know how to get the thing cooled off and I'm going to get it on down to Chattanooga.

[475] And this guy working for me is a friend of mine.

[476] He's just ragging me to know in.

[477] You freaking cheapskate.

[478] You've got millions of dollars and we're here on the side of the road because you're too deadgum prideful to buy a decent car because you're afraid of what somebody will think about you having a nice car.

[479] Ooh, got you.

[480] Totally got me. It owned me because it's exactly right.

[481] I was, I had reverse pride.

[482] I was like, I don't have to.

[483] I can drive whatever I want to drive.

[484] Well, I was driving a piece of crap.

[485] And I was afraid that somebody would think, since I'm on the radio telling people sell their car, you know, that I shouldn't be driving a nice car.

[486] And it made me process through the philosophy that she's dealing with here.

[487] When I got home, I went and bought a two -year -old jag, which was a great car.

[488] And I drove that car for a while.

[489] It was the ones that back when Ford was making Jags.

[490] They were good cars.

[491] And I don't know.

[492] They may still be making them.

[493] I don't know.

[494] But it was a great car in the 90s.

[495] And so anyway, that was a while back, a couple decades ago.

[496] And then fast forward, I went the other way up in 2014.

[497] I got a bunch of criticism for having a nice house.

[498] Some guy decided he was going to go bananas on the Internet.

[499] And it pissed me off these left -wingers, communists, telling you you can't succeed in America.

[500] And you should be ashamed of success.

[501] And I went the other way and I went and bought three cars.

[502] You showed them, Dave.

[503] You showed them.

[504] I drove one of them today.

[505] It's a 2014.

[506] So, but, you know, so you could kind of, you could.

[507] But I think the moral here is saying it out loud and then practicing your way through the emotions and not letting other people set the tone.

[508] Right.

[509] It's not about other people.

[510] It's about what's right between you and God.

[511] Are you being proper towards your family, towards your community, towards your future?

[512] and being responsible with that, have you done anything wrong?

[513] Are you morally out of whack somewhere with how you're gaining the money?

[514] Probably not.

[515] But then there's always some moron out there that's going to be envious or jealous that those dirt on your, the Jen's success.

[516] Whatever side you're doing.

[517] It could be your family.

[518] It could be something else.

[519] You know, like we say, you're getting above your raise and all that stuff.

[520] But anyway, you just say, look, it's between you, your brain, your conscience, in God.

[521] And if you can get that straight, and that's a matter of practicing, adding generosity to the equation, intentional generosity that grows as your income and your wealth grows so that the generosity is not back at your old income level or your old wealth level.

[522] And your enjoyment grows as your wealth grows as well.

[523] And your use of money for personal consumption, the quality of your vacation, the quality of your dining out, should go up as you go along, but not so much so that it's out of whack.

[524] All of that fits into this contentment issue.

[525] It's a great discussion, Jim.

[526] It's a great question.

[527] And I think the meta thing here is it's okay to feel weird anytime you're doing or experiencing something that you're not used to.

[528] That's okay.

[529] You're not crazy.

[530] Not something wrong with you.

[531] Matter of fact, you'd be something wrong with you if you didn't feel.

[532] Right.

[533] So just make sure you practice.

[534] Practice your way through it.

[535] That's good.

[536] Good word, John.

[537] This is The Ramsey Show.

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[552] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host, Open Phones at Triple Eight, 825 -5 -225.

[553] Dr. John is a Ph .D. in counseling, number one bestselling author many times over, also host of one of the more popular shows on the Ramsey Networks called The Dr. John Deloney Show, where people call him for on -air questions to the counselor.

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[555] AAA 825 -5 -225.

[556] Crystal's with us in Colorado Springs.

[557] Hi, Crystal.

[558] How are you?

[559] Hey, I'm good.

[560] How are you?

[561] Better than I deserve.

[562] What's up?

[563] Yeah.

[564] Yeah, so I'll try to make a long story short.

[565] I have a question about where and how to move forward with a relationship with my dad.

[566] He recently wrote me a letter about a situation that happened three years ago that he felt I handled wrong.

[567] And just the cliff notes of that is that about 20 years ago, I bought.

[568] my parents' house back from the bank after they lost it.

[569] They lost her house and their business and everything.

[570] And so we, quote unquote, put it in my name with the expectation that they would take it back.

[571] But over the course of those 20 years, my dad cheated on my mom, got divorced.

[572] I ended up moving into the house, you know, and so...

[573] It's been in your name all along.

[574] Yes, sir.

[575] Okay.

[576] So you ended up with a house after all?

[577] sure did yep and um and so when we uh when my husband and i sold the house uh i didn't feel that the down payment money was rightfully mine uh because my parents did pay that so i gave that to my mom uh and said do with this as you wish if you want to split it with dad great if you whatever um but the proceeds from the house i felt were mine because it's been my house for that length of time So at the time you bought it back from the bank after they lost it, they put up the down payment?

[578] So they gave me money for the down payment.

[579] Yeah, this is what I mean?

[580] Yeah, they pulled some cash together.

[581] Yes, sir.

[582] Okay.

[583] How much was that?

[584] About $34, $35 ,000.

[585] Okay.

[586] All right.

[587] So you returned that to her?

[588] Sure did.

[589] Mm -hmm.

[590] All right.

[591] And then, you know, we did.

[592] didn't give my dad anything, told my mom she could share that, but we didn't feel like we should give, like any of the house was theirs.

[593] He hadn't lived there in years or anything.

[594] And apparently that's been a really sore issue with him.

[595] And he wrote me a letter about three weeks ago saying how that was terrible.

[596] The house was not rightfully mine.

[597] I should never have done that.

[598] I'm selfish.

[599] I'm going to have to answer to God one day for that.

[600] And, And just had his own, as we always do, his own perspective of reality.

[601] And I have my own, and they do not align.

[602] And so it was good to hear him out.

[603] And I responded and said, hey, thank you so much.

[604] It's really good to hear your side of the story.

[605] I didn't realize there was even an issue here.

[606] And then I said, well, let me respond to this.

[607] So I responded in kind to his letter with a letter of my own, just really diplomatically, zero emotion saying, Here's how I see these facts.

[608] And so he has not texted, emailed, called, answered calls, anything.

[609] Since then, and I'm just wondering what's healthy.

[610] Like, the financial thing I don't feel like is what I want advice on.

[611] It's the relationship piece.

[612] I have three young kids who love their grandpa, and can we go for it?

[613] How do we go forward?

[614] I ended my letter saying, you're still my day.

[615] Dad, I still love you.

[616] You're still welcome to have a relationship with me and the kids.

[617] So I just haven't heard anything.

[618] Do you live by him?

[619] No. He lives in Michigan.

[620] I live in Colorado.

[621] Have you picked up the phone and called him?

[622] Yes.

[623] And it goes straight to voicemail.

[624] Okay.

[625] Ugh.

[626] It sounds like, unfortunately, he's making a grown -up dad decision that he gets to make, which is I don't want to talk to my daughter.

[627] I know.

[628] And I hate that for you.

[629] Yeah, I hate that for me too.

[630] And I hate it even more for my kids who love their grandpa.

[631] Yeah.

[632] But it sounds like their grandpa loves being right in his own heart and mind more than he loves his relationship with those kids.

[633] Mm -hmm.

[634] And I'm sorry.

[635] That's heartbreaking.

[636] That breaks my heart for you guys.

[637] This is one of those that falls in the bucket of you can't make other people behave.

[638] Yeah, I had a counselor tell me that before, and also that you can't expect...

[639] I've spent a lot of energy trying, but it just doesn't work.

[640] Oh, gosh, some people's kids.

[641] I mean, I've contemplated just flying out there, getting a plane ticket showing up at his door, but then I'm like, that just, that doesn't seem right.

[642] No, that's desperate, and you're not desperate.

[643] You've not done anything wrong, hon. What you've described is very logical and it's fine.

[644] I might not have written him back.

[645] I might have called him.

[646] Yeah, I wouldn't have written it back.

[647] I would have called him, but that's no big deal.

[648] That's not like a principled thing.

[649] You didn't do anything wrong.

[650] You just would have stood a better chance of possibly hearing tone and so forth.

[651] Yeah.

[652] But anyway, it's neither hearing or there.

[653] The whole thing's messy.

[654] So he has, the deal is this, okay?

[655] every time he sees you hears you talks to you he is reminded that he failed your mother he is reminded that he failed in business and lost his home and his own child had to bail him out and so I'm sorry but you're a bit of a source of shame for him not you don't make him ashamed you remind him of his misbehaviors does that make sense yeah yeah I haven't thought of it that way.

[656] And you can't, you can't fix that.

[657] You didn't cause it.

[658] That's a brick he's carrying around, and you can't knock it out of his hands.

[659] Yeah.

[660] Yeah.

[661] I'm so sorry.

[662] It's just, the problem is there's not a good answer.

[663] I know.

[664] Except just, you know, one of us to walk over and knock him in the head, but, you know.

[665] Yeah, I mean, I could give you his address.

[666] I know.

[667] It's a possible thing.

[668] I mean, we, you know, there are people that solve it that way, but, you know, I don't think it would work that way either.

[669] Knocks them.

[670] sin sin to the man. I'm rattling some ideas through my head.

[671] He's giving up, he's giving up a relationship with his own grandchildren over stuff that happened 20 years ago.

[672] Yeah.

[673] And that's sad.

[674] I might, I'm trying to think if this is manipulative or if this is restorative, but when his, his birthday comes around or father's day comes around, I might have my kids.

[675] I still want them to do the next right thing.

[676] and they may send granddad a picture or send granddad a video but you'd have to be very careful about your spirit on that not to stomp on but to make sure those kids know that even when things are tough and someone chooses to not respond to you that until they say stop calling me that we're going to continue to try to love them the best we can but I'd have to think twice before I did that but you do not change your principles to attract him either correct and you've been doing that your whole life don't do that Yeah, you stood up this time on proper ground.

[677] You stood it somewhere along the line.

[678] You've done some good work.

[679] You're standing on proper ground.

[680] The decisions you made were all accurate.

[681] This is the Ramsey show.

[682] Hey, you guys, emergencies happen in life.

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[715] Thank you.

[716] Doug is in Phoenix.

[717] Hey, Doug, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[718] Hey, guys, thank you for having me on.

[719] Sure.

[720] Your show is amazing.

[721] Thank you.

[722] Great job.

[723] Thanks, brother.

[724] So, tell me to my question, I am in a spot.

[725] I have a company that came recruiting me, and they're offering me a much higher increase in my base salary.

[726] My current company introduced quite a to 401K, and they have company stock that they basically hold.

[727] when I look at the net numbers, the new company is a little bit more, but it's cash in my pocket and in my actual earnings.

[728] The other, they can kind of retain it.

[729] If you leave and go to a competitor, they can hold it back and not pay you out.

[730] And so I'm kind of weighing this option on baby step two right now, trying to pay off debt, and I want to know your advice on how much of the cash in pocket versus the bennies is the How much of that is the swing?

[731] So I'm looking at my base salary would go from about 130 to right around 200.

[732] Whoa.

[733] This is a 30 % swing.

[734] Yeah.

[735] In cash, not in kind.

[736] I mean, in kind, it's about a net net, but about a 30 % swing cash in pocket.

[737] That's a lot.

[738] What do you do?

[739] I'm in commercial banking.

[740] Okay.

[741] All right.

[742] The other thing is, I don't want to trade short -term gain for long -term pain.

[743] Yeah.

[744] So if you're going over to a toxic, hot mess, grotesque bank, don't do it.

[745] I mean, life's too short, right?

[746] And if you're going to some place where you'd be capped out and there's no chance of your career being furthered.

[747] And at the other place you could grow, I wouldn't want to do that.

[748] So I don't want to turn, I don't want to take the short -term money and then get, you You know, make, and then two years from now regret it, right?

[749] Jeopardize, yeah.

[750] Yeah, I think what I look at with a new place, the opportunity is really, really good there.

[751] They've sort of come new into an area, and they need someone to lead out a team and stuff.

[752] Culture and environment, decent, or good?

[753] Yeah, they have a very good track record in that area.

[754] You know, leaving the place where I'm currently at, it's sort of unknown what the path looks like.

[755] There were some things that they kind of promised it didn't pan out, pan out.

[756] And so it's sort of a, I don't know.

[757] But the other part of it, in this baby step two journey, you know, we're coming out of, got into a lot of debt over the last few years.

[758] Are you moving?

[759] Do you take the job?

[760] No, it would be same market.

[761] Okay.

[762] So there's no baby step two issue because you're moving up in cash?

[763] Yeah.

[764] That's better than a side game.

[765] That's if I'm jumping into something in order to fix some.

[766] Yeah, I just don't want you to do short -term gain for long -term pain.

[767] That's all I'm saying.

[768] If the long -term gain, like culture and.

[769] an upside for the career is great, and the money's more.

[770] It becomes a no -brainer.

[771] Yeah.

[772] I think, am I missing something?

[773] No, I think, you know, it's, I think that the things I'm trying to make sure I'm not doing is trying to fix a big problem with a now money thing.

[774] There is some unknowns in the new place.

[775] You know, it's not, they're not, they don't have a long track record in this market.

[776] So I'd be kind of creating a culture and building out a lot of that stuff, which.

[777] But Doug.

[778] It creates an excitement.

[779] You want to fix a big -time problem with right now money.

[780] That's what Baby Step 2 is.

[781] Yeah.

[782] There's got to be something else here.

[783] They're offering you a 70.

[784] Have you stopped your spending?

[785] Are you doing Baby Step 2 correct?

[786] Or you're just still spending like you're in Congress?

[787] No, we've, it's been the last 10 months or so.

[788] It's really ramped up.

[789] And you and your wife are on the same page and there's not a problem?

[790] Yeah.

[791] So you've changed the cause of the problem, correct?

[792] You?

[793] Yeah.

[794] okay me exactly and if that's changed then there's no no downside now if you know if you're trying to band -aid over half but doing baby step two then yeah we could go there yeah but i didn't hear that no i think we talked actually just recently we're kind of contemplating this that you know we need to do probably get fully on board i think there is some there's some spending you know where it's like oh we went over in that we just kind of bumped the budget amount up so i think there's some tightening up of that that we could do.

[795] And we're not doing this to consume more.

[796] We're doing this to get out faster and because it's a good career move, both and.

[797] How much do you owe, Doug?

[798] Yeah.

[799] We're about 150, between HELOC and credit cards and solar and car.

[800] So what does an extra $70 ,000 a year do to escalate this for you?

[801] Yeah.

[802] I mean, we're done in less than two years.

[803] Yeah.

[804] Yeah, no -brainer.

[805] I would have done it yesterday.

[806] You better be.

[807] Yeah.

[808] Yeah.

[809] Get after it.

[810] As long as you've addressed the issues.

[811] Now, if you're, again, if you're just doing this to mask over the fact that you really didn't change and you told me you're doing baby step two, but you're really not because you're half butt dragging along and you're still going on vacations and still buying crap you can't afford and that kind of stuff, then that's a different issue.

[812] If you are masking over it, then this is not going to mask over it.

[813] It's going to come back.

[814] It has a, as my friend Les Perrett says, when you bury these things, they have a high rate of reservation.

[815] erection.

[816] So this stuff will come back to haunt you if you do that.

[817] But if you really, if you and your wife have really both said, look, we've been out of control.

[818] We're stopping the out of control.

[819] We're going to be in control.

[820] We're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans for a period of time and get this $150 ,000 in stupidity cleaned up.

[821] And then you take this job, then I'm in.

[822] Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it.

[823] Layla's with us.

[824] Layla is in Washington, D .C. Hi, Leila.

[825] Hi, thanks for taking my call.

[826] I'm a long -time listener.

[827] into your podcast to work every day.

[828] Thank you.

[829] How can we help?

[830] Well, so long story short, this Saturday, my husband and I had like a series of not pleasant like rental car experience.

[831] And so my husband, I think emotionally decided to buy a car over the weekend.

[832] And he put the closet down, but like we can still backtrack.

[833] And I was wondering if you had any tips for talking him out of this decision.

[834] because we really just don't need a car.

[835] Okay, you had an unpleasant rental car experience?

[836] Yeah, like we got a zip car to just get out of the city for a little bit, and it was just...

[837] You don't own a car?

[838] No. Okay, so your husband said, because it made him recognize we might want to own a car, he put a deposit down.

[839] Do you have the money to pay cash for the car?

[840] He put a deposit on.

[841] Yes.

[842] Okay.

[843] Is it a brand new car?

[844] No, it's a youth 2012.

[845] And how expensive is it?

[846] It's $9 ,900.

[847] Okay, and what's your household income?

[848] So he makes $130, and I make $99.

[849] Okay, all right.

[850] So do you have any debt other than your home?

[851] No, we're on babysat four and we don't have to it.

[852] So why can you not afford this car?

[853] we can we just don't need it and part of the reason that like we picked where we lived was like his whole argument was that we wouldn't need a car so um so 10 ,000 dollars in a used car is not going to change your life much.

[854] Probably not it's just it's a big car it's like an SUV and there's just like the two of us so I don't I don't know I feel like there's the type of car and then there's I don't need a car and then there's I don't like this car and I think you're being emotional there's a whole lot of things you're accusing him of here so I think you need to get on the same page but the answer to your question is can you afford a $9 ,000 car if you're paying cash for it yes you can in your situation and so no I don't need to talk him out of it but you may need to talk him out of which car he's buying because you don't like that car you should be aligned on that before you make a major decision together.

[855] Um, and that's happened at my house, I can promise you.

[856] This is the Ramsey show.

[857] You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle intense with your financial game plan.

[858] But do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance?

[859] Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill.

[860] And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo all of your hard work.

[861] That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can help.

[862] They work for you, not the insurance company, so they find you the right health insurance, and they save you money.

[863] Ramsey has recommended Health Trust Financial for two decades because they're the experts, and whether you're 19 years old or 90, you can trust them to do two very important things.

[864] Listen to you, then find you health insurance coverage with everything you need, and nothing you don't.

[865] Health Trust Financial is your one -stop shop for unbiased advice about affordable health insurance options.

[866] They could save you hundreds of dollars a month, so make sure you're not overpaying.

[867] Go to health trustfinancial .com today.

[868] HealthTrustfinancial .com.

[869] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one, bestselling author of the book, building a non -anxious life.

[870] He's my co -host today.

[871] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[872] Daniel's in Colorado Springs.

[873] Hey, Daniel, what's up?

[874] Hey, Dave and Dr. Joloni.

[875] Such a pleasure to speak with you, too.

[876] You too, sir.

[877] How can we help?

[878] Okay, so I have two questions.

[879] One about my business, one about my house.

[880] So I'll get a little background.

[881] So I just hit four years from filing bankruptcy about a week ago.

[882] It was about as broke as broke gets.

[883] I now own a construction company that I have.

[884] I opened April of 2021.

[885] The mental impasse that I'm at with myself is, do I sell this business in a couple years?

[886] Do I just continue to do this and continue to hire more people?

[887] So I'm not working as much since I'm about to have my third child.

[888] I feel like asking these questions to myself almost makes me feel like a sell -out because I care about my employees, my best friends, my vice president, and I just don't know what to do.

[889] Okay.

[890] Why would you sell it?

[891] I don't want to do this forever.

[892] This wasn't even really a plan.

[893] I opened April of 21.

[894] Before that, I worked with a guy who was probably the worst human.

[895] I'm part of military and I've dealt with some bad people, but this guy, he broke me to the point where I opened my business because I didn't want to be an employee again.

[896] And it takes so much time away from, you know, my two daughters that I have, four and one, and then I'm having my third child in January.

[897] Wait, wait a minute.

[898] You work at night?

[899] no no no I usually get home at like five or six and then my girls go about at eight so why does that take so much time away that's like a normal job that's fair that's fair the the part that's in my head of where the bulk of my time was spent was June of last year we got a really big hail storm in the Colorado Springs area but that's not every day that's not that was a moment in time that was an anomaly I'm talking about day in and day out you're home at five o 'clock and you're telling me you're taking too much time away from your kids that's absolute bull crap well well and i i only get my kids half the time as well i know okay that i didn't know but that doesn't change the equation their dad still has a job right it's like a normal human that's what you think you're going to sit at home with a four -year -old no and that that's that was actually that leads me into that the same question of if i did decide to sell and and for the record what brought this to my mind, the company that I started with in 2017 when I got into this industry, he owned his business for six years and then sold it to private equity, made a really big sum of money.

[900] I don't want to go that route because I don't necessarily know what else I want to do, because this is kind of all I know other than corporate America and, you know, before I've gotten to this industry.

[901] And what I don't want to do is sell my business, make a good amount of money, and then not have anything else to do.

[902] So my question is.

[903] And not have any close.

[904] why you sold it.

[905] Exactly, because I've heard your, you know, I'm an avid listener, and I've heard that you have a lot of friends that even sold for $200 million, and they still regret the decision of selling their business, and that's kind of what I fear.

[906] I think for me, I just don't want to be, I don't want to be the one that everybody looks to and customer problems and people not paying their bills on time.

[907] It's just, it's mentally stressful, and I like the idea of, let's say, three to five years from now getting into real estate investing.

[908] Don't you think there's going to be people there that you have to be?

[909] responsible for too and customers that have to be taken care of too that's fair everywhere you go there's someone with a problem your job is to solve their problem that's how you get money true and so what did you do in the military IT okay yeah for how long four years thank you thank you for your service um thank you yeah i don't know um who do you what do you build we do all exterior renovations on after hailstorms okay so oh I haven't found anybody who can keep a successful business long term who does not have a deep compassion for their end consumer right and so if you can wrap your head around somebody like take me 15 years ago I bought my first house and I couldn't breathe because I was up to the threshold and if a hailstorm was to come through and you show up and say, I'm going to shake your hand and I'm going to make this thing right and I'll work with the insurance company.

[910] You would have been a gift to me as a dad, a young dad, and as a husband.

[911] And you wouldn't just be fixing my exterior.

[912] You would have been helping me out.

[913] And that's kind of why I do what I do because I used to work in insurance on the other side where I was the one responsible for handling the claims.

[914] And I didn't like that because I was protecting the multi -billion dollar insurance companies.

[915] Now I get to protect your average homeowner, which that is absolutely the most fulfilling aspect.

[916] So if you stay, so you have to be willing to deal with the crap on either side of the highway because your mission is I'm going to take care of those homeowners who just got caught under the wrong storm.

[917] Right.

[918] And man, that will, that will be fuel that will take you all the way.

[919] That's the one thing I like sitting by Dave is he has what I would call almost psychosis about the end person.

[920] He can't get that woman who is struggling to pay her bills.

[921] and has been lied to by everyone and their grandma about how to handle money and he's got an answer for her.

[922] And if you're not, and I have the same obsession with people's marriages.

[923] Like, so you have that.

[924] I feel like you're looking at a lot of Instagram telling you how to flip this and ROI this and get the money there.

[925] And bro, you have something that brings you joy in your life and your daughters are going to be filled up by watching their dead, work hard on behalf of the average homeowner in their community, and show up ready to rock and roll as dad once he picks up his girls.

[926] I agree.

[927] I think you're struggling.

[928] And that's what puts me in the, for the record, I don't have Instagram.

[929] I don't follow any of that.

[930] I know, but you know what I'm talking about.

[931] Somewhere you're getting fed information that tells you what you're doing is wrong.

[932] And nothing you're doing is wrong.

[933] I can agree with that.

[934] Running this business for the next 30 years is not wrong.

[935] selling it and moving it and moving on to something else is not wrong, but it's not going to solve.

[936] It's not going to give you more time with your kids if you have a life and have a career and have dignity in the workplace.

[937] And it's not going to avoid responsibilities if you have a life and have dignity and you're plugged into the workplace.

[938] And you're not going to avoid angry customers if you have life, have dignity and are plugged into the workplace.

[939] All of those things are going to be anywhere that there is money.

[940] That's fair.

[941] In my mind, I think we're the mental impasse is.

[942] I'm at the point now, like, we've grown very much.

[943] So I started in 2021.

[944] We did 800 ,000 gross.

[945] 2022 did 1 .6.

[946] Last year did 4 .1.

[947] This year we're projected for 8.

[948] And I have in my mind, well, if I want to continue to scale to this rate, it's going to eventually continue to take more time.

[949] So do I want to do this for 10 more years?

[950] No, it doesn't take more time.

[951] It takes less time because you're getting big enough now that you're going to be.

[952] able to afford the quality leadership team as well as quality people that's you haven't grown your internal infrastructure inside the business and so you got the whole weight of the thing on your back that's what's crushing you and so you've got an internal business structure problem you've not spent enough of your profits on team to grow to put leadership structure in place the best time of my business life ever started about a decade ago around here And we were at that point, we were at that point at about $100 million, and I could afford to put leaders in place that were smarter than me, that managed segments of the business that were larger than the original business was as we grew it.

[953] And my life became amazing because I just stood back and watched other people do amazing work.

[954] And I was at home at 5 o 'clock at night and have been at home for several decades at 5 o 'clock at night because of delegation to quality people.

[955] But spend some of your profit.

[956] it on your team and here's the deal dude you got you got some internal growth plug into the entree leadership system go over to entree leadership elite and plug into it our entree program and start listening the entree leadership podcast because that's exactly what's going on with you you're doing the work you're you can't scale past where you are you're what we call the trailblazer stage there's five stages of business it's like there's seven baby steps and you're you you can't scale any further until you build your infrastructure out internally you're systems and your processes and your leadership org charts sucks inside this business because it's hucky stick.

[957] It's gone up into the right fast on you.

[958] And it's getting away from you.

[959] And you feel out of control.

[960] And that's what's scaring you.

[961] Now I finally found it.

[962] It was in there somewhere.

[963] Okay.

[964] This is The Ramsey Show.

[965] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[966] Thank you for joining us.

[967] Selling a house or buying a house in this current market is wacky.

[968] It's crazy.

[969] It's a great time to sell, and it's the best time in the next five years to buy because house prices continue to rise, even though the market's wacky.

[970] So if you want to buy a home or sell a home and do it the right way, it's a blessing.

[971] If you do it the wrong way, it's a curse.

[972] All real estate transactions are not good.

[973] Only ones that make sense inside your situation are good.

[974] And sitting around waiting on the market to change to suit you is not a plan.

[975] The Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a real estate agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at ramsie and to help you get the best offer on your house or get the best deal if you're buying so uh we send you some of the top agents all the ramsay trusted real estate agents are high octane high protein high producers they're not aunt sally who got her license three weeks ago or the guy charlie down at the church who just got in the business that's not who you want selling your most expensive asset hello you want a pro somebody's done it a bunch and i'm sorry if that hurts your little friend's feelings but i don't really give a crap it's your house and it's a lot of money and you need to take care of it right so ramsie trusted agents have years of experience find a ramsie trusted real estate agent for free at ramsysolutions dot com slash agent linda is in seattle hi linda how are you hi dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up um i am trying to find out if it's wise to buy to purchase a home at my age and my financial state what my options are versus renting with the cost of rent continuously going up and being ridiculous so I'm just trying to figure out I'm 66 and a half and I am collecting my full social security but I am also still working okay how much do you make um I make, I gross 3 ,435 at my job.

[976] A month?

[977] And yes.

[978] Okay.

[979] All right.

[980] And then my 1563 a month with my Social Security.

[981] Gotcha.

[982] Do you have any nest egg saved?

[983] I have $100 ,000 in a money market account.

[984] Mm -hmm.

[985] And then I have an additional 10 to $11 ,000 set aside that I have a car that I have a car that I purchased two years ago and I wanted to pay it off this summer so I'm pretty close I'm right there how much do you owe on the car um about 10 to 12 ,000 okay I'd pay it off today if you have to take a little out of the money market that's fine get rid of that okay sit around wait on the summer to come around knock it out okay um and you have no other retirement money um not unless I retire from my school job oh when you retire from the school job what will you make Um, the retirement, um, that I paid into would only be about 15 ,000.

[986] And my, the school would only be paying a very measly amount.

[987] You know, a few hundred a month.

[988] Right.

[989] Um, so it wouldn't really be profitable to retire.

[990] Yeah.

[991] I got you.

[992] All right.

[993] Well, here's the, here's the, here's the, uh, paradox you face.

[994] Okay.

[995] Uh, you're 66 if you live to 96.

[996] that's 30 years rent is going to go up every year okay buying a house yeah if you rent no i didn't say rent i said rent's going to go up every year if you rent and the most expensive line item in your budget is your housing cost agreed correct and so your most expensive item is variable and going up and out of your control as long as you rent so renting is really a bad option at retirement.

[997] It's a bad option long -term, period, but it's really bad at retirement because it will, you know, because it's going to go up a lot faster than your Social Security inflation adjustment.

[998] And your income's going to go down when you retire, dramatically.

[999] Okay.

[1000] So that's going to, that's going to put the pinch on you if you stay in the rental mode.

[1001] The problem is it's very expensive to buy real estate and you're in freaking, are you in Seattle?

[1002] Well, I'm about an hour and a half north of Seattle.

[1003] Good.

[1004] Closer to the Canadian border border, but I...

[1005] Good.

[1006] Okay.

[1007] So you're in a much more ruled.

[1008] You're not in Seattle real estate market.

[1009] Thank you, Jesus.

[1010] Good.

[1011] No. I'm in a small, Skagit County.

[1012] Okay, good.

[1013] So you have a better chance of finding a piece of real estate there than you would Seattle with your situation.

[1014] I've been looking for a couple of years.

[1015] Yeah.

[1016] So what I want you to buy is the cheapest possible thing.

[1017] that you can that you can buy because when you buy it, what happens is even if you've got a small mortgage on it and you put some of this $100 ,000 down, you keep some back for your nest egg too.

[1018] So you put $50 down as an example.

[1019] And at least your payment, whatever payment you select, is not going to go up then, except for taxes and insurance might change.

[1020] Right.

[1021] But if you don't do that, every year it's going to go up.

[1022] Rent is going to go up.

[1023] So the good news about buying is, is you fix, lock in the most expensive line in your budget.

[1024] And that's going to be a big deal 20 years from today for you.

[1025] That you're locked in at those old 2024 numbers.

[1026] Right.

[1027] But I can't afford a 15 -year, the payment on a 15 -year.

[1028] Well, you can afford it if you buy a cheap enough house.

[1029] And that's what I'm worried about here.

[1030] That's the paradox I said is you need to buy a house, but I don't think you can afford one.

[1031] And I'm trying to figure that out as we're talking through here.

[1032] But if you don't buy one, you're really going to be up a creek.

[1033] So if you buy, but if you buy something too expensive, it's going to drain you out anyway.

[1034] So that's the paradox.

[1035] So the only answer to the equation is buy something unbelievably cheap somewhere, somehow.

[1036] And I don't know what your particular real estate market is or how, you know, quote, unquote, affordable.

[1037] You can find a one -bedroom, two -bedroom, little condo or a little farmhouse out in the middle of no free can wear um yeah or whatever i mean i it does it does not need to be fancy it needs to be housing correct and the only thing i just don't want you to be somewhere in an unsafe area but other than that i want you to go somewhere where you get something super cheap and use what little money you've got to try to lock in this line but nothing is going to be ideal because there's not a lot of money in this discussion it's not going to be ideal whatever we do is going to be a strain.

[1038] We're just going to have to choose our hard.

[1039] Is there a point when you would tell somebody look to move?

[1040] Well, she is.

[1041] She moved to the right area.

[1042] She's out in the middle of nothing.

[1043] I mean, she's in a rural area, very rural, inexpensive area.

[1044] Seattle's what came up on the phone thing.

[1045] And I thought, good Lord, she's never going to make it there.

[1046] So, because even after, if you're looking for a couple of years and you still can't afford rural, like, well, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, she's not, she got $40 ,000 a year income, $45 ,000 of your income.

[1047] It's not going to be easy.

[1048] It'd be very tough.

[1049] She's operating at a lower income level with not a lot of money to put down.

[1050] And so we're going to be in lower income housing type, lower house housing prices, which is fine.

[1051] There's no shame in that.

[1052] It's better than being a renter for 35 years, though, or 30 years or 25 years or whatever the number is, because it goes up every year.

[1053] We've got to lock in that line item.

[1054] And folks, just to backtrack, for those of you, they're 32 when you're listening to this, going, I'll never buy a house, you know, yeah, you will.

[1055] You got to tell her age to figure this out, but you'll get it figured out.

[1056] But you need to get it figured out.

[1057] And then you need to get the house paid for because if you can come into retirement with a nest egg, let's just make up a number, a half million dollars, and a paid for house, even if it's a modest house, you've locked in the most expensive line item in your budget and you've got money to live on.

[1058] And then you're set for retirement.

[1059] You don't have to be a millionaire, but you've got to, you can, you can, you know what we're aiming at and you know if i could backtrack on in linda's life i don't know what all happened to her but if i could backtrack in her life 20 years and take her to a better place today i would obviously but i can't so we'll work with what she's got so i'm going to buy the cheapest possible thing as soon as i possibly can and then if interest rates go down you can refinance folks you marry the house you date the rate the rate is not permanent you can refinance and get rid of the rate.

[1060] So if rates draw, I can't buy in these rates.

[1061] Yeah, you can.

[1062] You can buy in these rates.

[1063] And you just, you know, just don't, we're not keeping the mortgage forever.

[1064] A, we're going to get it paid off.

[1065] And B, we can refinance and drop it if it goes down.

[1066] So date the rate, marry the house.

[1067] That's the plan.

[1068] So get something inexpensive and get it going.

[1069] Get your foot in the door.

[1070] And that's what I want for Linda, less her heart.

[1071] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1072] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions.

[1073] It's the Ramsey Show where we help people.

[1074] build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1075] Thanks for hanging out with us, America.

[1076] We're glad you're here.

[1077] Dr. John Deloney, number one bestselling author, Ph .D. and Counseling, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, Ramsey, personality, all those kinds of things.

[1078] He's my co -host today.

[1079] The phone number is 3 ,8 -825 -2 -25.

[1080] Matthew is with us in Denver.

[1081] Hi, Matthew.

[1082] How are you?

[1083] Hey, Dave.

[1084] Hey, Dr. John, thanks for taking my call.

[1085] Sure.

[1086] What's up?

[1087] Yeah, so I'll try to be concise here.

[1088] But back in 2017, my mom passed away when I was 19 and left me an inheritance that included a portion of my father's 401K that she received in the divorce two years prior to her passing.

[1089] of that amount, my father asked me or requested a $40 ,000 loan two years ago to assist in his completion of his retirement home with his now wife.

[1090] And the terms of said loan were a bit ambiguous, and I suppose over time, it's something that, you know, hasn't really been discussed, and I'm just looking for a little bit of guidance on how to, you know, pose the conversation and frame it in a way that doesn't seem, you know, greedy or pushy.

[1091] You know, I am conscious of the fact that, you know, at one time it was his money, so that is something that, you know, I guess.

[1092] When it came to you, Matthew, it was not his money.

[1093] It was your mom's.

[1094] You got to get that out of your head.

[1095] How did he ask you for the loan?

[1096] He kind of has a do -it -himself -style attitude, so instead of going the traditional route of, I suppose, construction financing.

[1097] No, no, no, no. How did he, by the way, he doesn't have a do -it -yourself because he had to call his son to borrow money.

[1098] So he likes to do it when he's in control.

[1099] That's two different things.

[1100] How did he ask you for the money?

[1101] Did he text you?

[1102] Did he call you?

[1103] Did he sit down with you and say, hey, man, need some help?

[1104] How did that work out?

[1105] Yeah, he called me and just basically, you know, kind of had a joking attitude of, hey, I need a, I need a loan from the bank of my son.

[1106] And we, at the time, I was still a little bit younger, so we.

[1107] You were 19.

[1108] Yeah.

[1109] Yeah.

[1110] And so now you're 27?

[1111] I'm 25 now.

[1112] 25.

[1113] Okay.

[1114] I'd call him right back and say, hey, dad, you borrowed $40 ,000 for me. what's the what's what's what's the payment plan going to look like just like that what's your hesitancy um i suppose it just goes back to us you know i guess there's some details surrounding separation between him and my mom and um you know just the impact that it had on him both you know emotionally financially and that's not your problem yeah that's his problem yeah why'd they get divorced um a long series of um alcoholism on the mom's side okay on your mom's side yes okay and i'm sorry um you lost your mom at 19 and your dad came in and um was completely inappropriate did something a dad should never do with a 19 year old and uh put you in a put you in a quandary here put you in a position where you're having to analyze if you did something wrong Honey, you didn't do anything wrong.

[1115] Your dad is completely a turd.

[1116] He's completely out of line.

[1117] This was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.

[1118] You know, you go to your son right after his mother dies, and with all the conflicting emotions of this money came from him from the divorce anyway and put you in that position was wrong.

[1119] Okay?

[1120] You need to hear that.

[1121] it was manipulative and it was wrong and then he's got the audacity to not pay it back nor bring it up and now he's put you in another pinch where you're analyzing am i doing something wrong am i greedy you said well crap no you might be a greedy person in this story but you're not it dude do you hear that yeah this is coming from two dads brother you don't borrow 40 ,000 dollars from your grieving son to build a retirement home.

[1122] He just don't do that.

[1123] And then especially if you do that, you don't leave him hanging, wondering how to ask, like, what's the fact that he hasn't brought this up for a few years.

[1124] I would call him and jokingly respond, hey, the bank of your son is calling said note.

[1125] It's calling the note.

[1126] Note is due, dad.

[1127] Are you building something?

[1128] Are you doing something cool?

[1129] What do you need the money for?

[1130] He needs his money back on principle.

[1131] Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm not in a particular situation where I suppose I need the money.

[1132] I don't need to blame it on anything except I want my money back.

[1133] I would just see if he was building a house or something might have an excuse, but you don't need one.

[1134] Yeah, that's what my point is, yeah.

[1135] You shouldn't, you shouldn't.

[1136] I'm with John.

[1137] I just pick up the phone.

[1138] You don't have to be a smart aleck.

[1139] I'm feeling pretty smart aleck towards him, but you don't have to be.

[1140] You don't have to be.

[1141] You can just be respectful and say, Dad, we never talked about this, and we should have probably put something down on paper.

[1142] we were both kind of dumb to do that but i do need this money and i need to know what your plan is i need it really pretty quick so what's your plan to get that 40 back to me okay yeah hey matt what's the chance he tells you well son actually that's my money was my money is that going to happen um i i don't see that happening um i see it kind of i suppose being dodged or pushed down the down the road of like oh well you know we still have a lot of outweighs we need for the home and um it's only been six years a bit tighter at this current moment yeah yeah i i just i would say you know i'm sorry about all that but it's only 40 000 bucks and you know i've got i've got some stuff i need to do and i need to get this squared around because i'm feeling really uncomfortable about it yeah yeah and you know again don't raise your voice you don't have to be a jerk You're not a jerk.

[1143] You're a kind person.

[1144] If it was me, I wouldn't be kind because I'm a jerk.

[1145] But, I mean, this kind of stuff pisses me off.

[1146] But, yeah, you're, it's just, I cannot conceive of Daniel Ramsey's mother passing away, even if I was divorced from her.

[1147] And me immediately going to my teenage son while he's grieving his mother's loss and saying, oh, by the way, he's some of that money that she took for me in the divorce.

[1148] Under the auspices of, I like to just do it myself.

[1149] I don't go to no stupid bank.

[1150] I don't want to deal with bank.

[1151] I don't deal with my 19 -year -old grieving son.

[1152] That's what I'd rather deal with.

[1153] Dave, I, you know what I hear in this kid's voice that breaks my heart?

[1154] Yeah.

[1155] Anything to make his dad happy.

[1156] Well, I think it's worse than that.

[1157] I think he knows that his dad got him.

[1158] And there's that, there's that sense when your dad's not who you thought he was.

[1159] Yeah.

[1160] That all of us go through.

[1161] It just, but in this case, it breaks your heart.

[1162] Because this time it's worse.

[1163] Golly.

[1164] Sorry, brother.

[1165] Hey, boys and girls.

[1166] Don't mess up your own kids.

[1167] There's a plan.

[1168] Let's try that one.

[1169] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1170] Did you know you don't accidentally win?

[1171] When they interview the quarterback after the Super Bowl, he'd say, what happened?

[1172] I don't know.

[1173] I just got off the bus.

[1174] It was like an accident.

[1175] no one accidentally wins the Super Bowl no one accidentally is married for 50 years no one accidentally completes a PhD program no one accidentally becomes successful in business winning is not an accident it is a series of course corrections it is a series of failures that you overcome and it is a constant state of planning to intentionally win it's how you stay married.

[1176] It's how you win at anything.

[1177] You constantly are working at it and planning it.

[1178] Money is the same way.

[1179] No one accidentally gets wealthy except the occasional lotto winner and even they bought the stupid ticket on purpose, although it's a horrible way to get rich.

[1180] But anyway, because you're more likely to get struck by lightning twice, statistically, walking to the market one mile.

[1181] Actually, actual statistics.

[1182] You are more likely.

[1183] You are more likely.

[1184] likely to get struck by lightning two times walking one mile to the market than you are to buy the ticket that wins the lot of that's how unlikely it is so anyway boy how did i get off on that if you're going to win win by being on purpose on purpose with money is a budget it's called the every dollar app the world's best every dollar the world's best budgeting app check it out we call it every dollar has a name every dollar has a mission download every dollar for free at the app store and google play and is with us in oregon high Anna, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

[1185] Hi, thank you so much.

[1186] I've had something on my mind for a little bit too long, so I'm excited to share it with you guys and see what you think.

[1187] Okay.

[1188] So basically, my sister had been working for me off and on.

[1189] She was a great employee.

[1190] Every person she's ever worked for has loved her.

[1191] She's really wonderful.

[1192] The only issue I had was at the end of her working for me, I knew she was going to leave at some point.

[1193] I just didn't really know when.

[1194] And it's basically just when she got a good opportunity.

[1195] So what ended up happening, I was three months postpartum, and she took one of my, basically, my clients, their work, and ended up taking a position at their company as well, basically being their personal assistant and took my work with them, with her.

[1196] And I just have never really known how to navigate that.

[1197] I'm not sure if I'm right to feel like somewhat slighted or what is what is the work it's cleaning cleaning she's their personal assistant and she does their cleaning yes I was doing the cleaning with my company you're doing maid service yes and they hired her in their home to be their personal assistant and now she's also their maid yes Oh.

[1198] Have you talked to her about it?

[1199] I did a little bit, and she, I think one thing that kind of made me feel uncomfortable was she basically said, you know, that's just kind of what happens with family, doing business with family, and I'm like, I don't think it has to be that way, but I'm also not sure if like I'm right to feel, you know, a little bit frustrated.

[1200] with how it happened.

[1201] What else is going on here?

[1202] I think a big thing for me was just being three months postpartum, which is completely unrelated.

[1203] I know that.

[1204] But it just was a sensitive time for me, and then I lost her.

[1205] She was my best employee, so, and I just didn't expect to lose, like, 25 % of my business's income.

[1206] It was relatively small at that point.

[1207] You had four clients?

[1208] No, I had more than four clients.

[1209] then how would losing one client be 25 % I think it was it was my work was kind of seasonal so at that point I was making sorry it was back this was a few years ago that's what I was like I've been thinking about for way too long so I don't think 25 % is accurate okay you might be right I think you I think you've exaggerated that in your mind because you're hurt I'm guessing but I don't I mean you didn't have four clients she took one you had more than four and so that would not be 25 % unless you charged this one family an inordinate amount of money to clean their house you just heartbroken that your sister doesn't work with you anymore so we definitely charged them more than most other people but um so you said it was inevitable that your sister left your company why why is it inevitable Oh, we had just had talked about that.

[1210] Like she was going to, she worked for me, you know, when she came back during breaks from college and whatnot.

[1211] It was just kind of something she did that we helped each other out.

[1212] And I knew she was going to get a different job because she didn't want to do cleaning, you know.

[1213] But she got a job cleaning.

[1214] Well, and doing a whole bunch of other things for this company.

[1215] That's now a very, very large, well -known company.

[1216] So here's the deal.

[1217] You can feel however you want to feel.

[1218] Okay.

[1219] The question is, are you ready to move past this or are you ready to end your relationship with your sister?

[1220] And I don't hear anything here that makes me say like, I don't think your sister's a crook.

[1221] I don't think she's a bad person.

[1222] It's not like she got a job.

[1223] And then that job also morphed into, hey, we want you to do this too as a part of this bigger job.

[1224] She did not go open a cleaning service and take four of your customers to her new cleaning service.

[1225] She went to work for the people in their home and cleaned their house as a part of that job.

[1226] So I don't think that she didn't set out to steal the customer.

[1227] She took a job with them.

[1228] They decided that their new personal assistant was also going to be their maid.

[1229] Yeah, that makes sense.

[1230] Yeah.

[1231] And so I don't think she set out here to screw you is my point.

[1232] No, she didn't need to do that.

[1233] If she had left and taken three of your customers and opened a competing cleaning service, that's a different set of you.

[1234] of emotions.

[1235] That's a thief that happens to be your sister.

[1236] I think your sister just took a job and I think it was at a real delicate time and it kind of hurt your feelings and you kind of wanted her to stay longer and it was a bad timing for you and you missed the income too and all of that combined is just jumbled up in your head.

[1237] I'm, if I'm you, I'm just, I'm going to, I'm on just drop it and move on.

[1238] That really helps.

[1239] Thank you so much.

[1240] Because I did, I just, I, if I thought your sister was a crook, I'd tell you on the air, you know that, because I do it all the time.

[1241] And I don't think, and by the way, I don't think you're a wuss.

[1242] I think this is a strange, weird, twisted up thing, so it's hard to figure out.

[1243] I don't think you're a bad.

[1244] I think you've got reasonable, I think you have reasons to have good emotions on this, but I don't think there was enough ethical breach for me to not have my sister anymore.

[1245] Oh, totally.

[1246] Okay.

[1247] And so, and there's kind of no in between.

[1248] If you just let this splinter lay under there, it's like, well, I love my sister except for that one thing, you know.

[1249] Does she know you've been mad at her for two years like this?

[1250] Um, I don't know.

[1251] She might suspect it.

[1252] I'm not sure.

[1253] I can almost guarantee you she knows something's up and here's what's kind of cruel.

[1254] She's made up a bunch of stories about what she did or what you did.

[1255] I think it's worth sitting down having a cup of coffee with her and just telling her.

[1256] I've been mad at you for two years because you left when I was pregnant and had a baby and I missed you and you were my best employee and then you took one of my customers and I just created this big story about how and I think that in say I'm sorry I want you to be my sister and I love you and I miss you I think you'll probably sleep better yeah there's no ethical problem and that's a good that's a good move I like that move it's real clean and it gets because all the rumination all the she's been living rent free in your head and so I think an eviction is in order yeah big time just for your piece.

[1257] It's called forgiveness, yeah.

[1258] Even if she didn't really do anything wrong, you still forgive her for hurting your feelings, and that's okay.

[1259] That's the magic of forgiveness.

[1260] We often think it's for other people.

[1261] Forgiveness is for you, man. I'm just not carrying your stuff anymore.

[1262] Yeah.

[1263] I'm not going to carry it.

[1264] Set you down.

[1265] Not carry anymore, man. Who?

[1266] What's your name?

[1267] Yeah.

[1268] Huh?

[1269] What?

[1270] No, we don't, we're good.

[1271] And I can guarantee you in this kind of situation, their sister's going to sit down and be like, all right, good, I made up some stories about you, too, and it'll be a good cathartic air cleaning, and it'll be good for everybody.

[1272] Maybe.

[1273] Maybe.

[1274] Yeah.

[1275] At least the folks around Starbucks will be entertained.

[1276] That's, there we go.

[1277] Exactly.

[1278] Or whatever the name of the coffee shop is, that these things happen in.

[1279] That's kind of ridiculous.

[1280] The Waffle House.

[1281] There you go.

[1282] That's better.

[1283] That's better.

[1284] Redneck reconciliation.

[1285] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1286] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co -host.

[1287] Open phones at AAA 8255 -225 in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, and we invite you to stop by at any time and hang out.

[1288] We're doing the show from 1 to 4 central time.

[1289] We're just south of Franklin, Tennessee.

[1290] Great place to visit in the Nashville area.

[1291] We invite you to come by and drink some wonderful free coffee, some homemade chocolate chip cookies, all on us.

[1292] Smells like Mama's Kitchen when you walk in here, not like corporate America.

[1293] And in the middle of all of that is a debt -free stay, and on the debt -free stages, Stephen and Jasmine.

[1294] Hey, guys, how are you?

[1295] Hey, Dave.

[1296] Welcome.

[1297] Where do y 'all live?

[1298] San Antonio, Texas.

[1299] Oh, I love San Antonio.

[1300] Awesome.

[1301] Welcome to Nashville.

[1302] And to do a debt -free scream, how much have you paid off?

[1303] $81 ,137.

[1304] Look at you.

[1305] Way to go.

[1306] How long did that take?

[1307] 52 months.

[1308] 52 months.

[1309] And your range of income during that four years?

[1310] A range of income was from 53 ,000 to about $120.

[1311] 2 ,000.

[1312] Wow, nice jump.

[1313] What do y 'all do for a living?

[1314] I am a product owner and she is a homemaker.

[1315] I'm home with the boys.

[1316] Yeah.

[1317] A domestic engineer.

[1318] There we go.

[1319] Got it.

[1320] Okay.

[1321] Very cool.

[1322] Very cool.

[1323] Good for you guys.

[1324] So you've seen a nice income increase in the last four years.

[1325] Yeah.

[1326] A lot of that was just God's undeserved blessing.

[1327] We just had opportunities come into our lab.

[1328] Somebody message us out of the blue and wanted us to do some nannying for them.

[1329] and she did that for a while.

[1330] I took a side job at Costco, pressure washing, and also, you know, just applying for new jobs.

[1331] So a lot of components there, but all God's blessing.

[1332] Well done.

[1333] Well, he tends to bless you when you work like that.

[1334] It's pretty amazing.

[1335] It's a weird thing.

[1336] The harder I work, the better, the luckier I am, yeah.

[1337] So what kind of debt was this $81 ,000?

[1338] All student loans.

[1339] Okay.

[1340] How long y 'all been married?

[1341] Seven years.

[1342] So you're married a couple of years, and you look up and there's 81 ,000 worth of Sally May living in the spare bedroom.

[1343] What was the I've had it moment?

[1344] What was the tipping point where you said, something's got a change?

[1345] And you plugged into this whole Ramsey thing.

[1346] It's a really funny story.

[1347] I think we had just gotten married, and Stephen asked me, oh, no, I asked him, how much student loan debt do you have?

[1348] and he said 30 ,000, and I said, that's it.

[1349] So I had the rest of it all under my name.

[1350] Oh, okay.

[1351] So you didn't even talk about this until after the wedding.

[1352] It didn't occur to us.

[1353] We just knew we lived each other, and then we had to ask questions later.

[1354] And we had a bunch of men.

[1355] Somebody, we'll work the debt thing out later.

[1356] All right, so we got $80 ,000 worth of debt, and you sit there for a little while, a few years without doing anything.

[1357] Yeah.

[1358] And then what was the catalyst?

[1359] What woke you guys up?

[1360] You know, I had always known about your name.

[1361] name.

[1362] Your name was a household name in my household.

[1363] Well, that makes sense, huh?

[1364] And Jasmine hadn't heard of you.

[1365] So we went to a class at Wayside Chapel in San Antonio, and it was led by Jim and Joe Addington, and they led the class.

[1366] And I mean, you went to Financial Peace University.

[1367] Financial Peace University.

[1368] And that just, that kicked us off.

[1369] Okay.

[1370] Why did you go to class after three years or two years already been married?

[1371] You know, it was funny also because not too long after we'd gotten married, we had gone in our first apartment and I was like, so when are we going to get a house?

[1372] You know, we're married now.

[1373] Let's have a house.

[1374] And so that's when he sat me down and talked about the debt snowball plan.

[1375] And I was initially shocked and disappointed and frustrated.

[1376] But after thinking - The $30 ,000 doesn't bother you.

[1377] The fact that you had to pay it off was disappointing, right?

[1378] Yeah.

[1379] It was like the Michael Scott, like, I declare bankruptcy.

[1380] You were like, I'm a wife.

[1381] I declare house and he was like that's not held math i told her well i mean we got 90 thousand in student loans we already have an invisible house that we're paying you know we have a mortgage already basically oh you're such a mean husband so it took me some time to like think about it and then when i did agree and accept it and align myself under the plan god gave me contentment and he actually gave me excitement to cut corners and say no to things and plan dinners on eight dollars it was And then you got into the class after that, right?

[1382] I wonder the chronology of that.

[1383] But I think, yeah, I think it was all at about the same time.

[1384] We had a lot of dates at Costco Food Court.

[1385] I like it.

[1386] I like it.

[1387] A buck and a half hot dog.

[1388] I'm just saying, all right.

[1389] So fun.

[1390] All right.

[1391] Very good.

[1392] Way to go, you guys.

[1393] How's it feel to be free?

[1394] Thank you.

[1395] I'll let her answer first.

[1396] You want to go?

[1397] It's great.

[1398] I remember the first time we looked at our budget.

[1399] it's like if there was a new lightness and brightness to the budget, the place where our debt was at the bottom was no longer there.

[1400] And I didn't even realize kind of that inward negative downward pool it felt when we looked at the debt on our budget.

[1401] And it wasn't there anymore.

[1402] So it was just really a little really bright, happy moment.

[1403] I guess.

[1404] For me, I feel like it's going to dawn on me at some point.

[1405] I feel like I have debt, PTSD.

[1406] Like I'm still, it's over, but I'm still in the war.

[1407] you know so I'm hoping it'll dawn on me on this trip here yeah I mean both of you all just are saying it right there's a people want to fight us about the numbers all the time and they're just totally disregard I love the way you just described it and realized how it was pulling me down that's peace right I didn't realize what I was lacking until I didn't owe some somebody else wasn't telling me how to do my life right exactly yeah and now you're free why to go y 'all way to go and two little boys come during this time and everything yeah Exactly.

[1408] And how old are they?

[1409] We have Levi, who's just about to be four, and Samuel, who's just about to be two.

[1410] Cool, and they're back home.

[1411] No, they're here.

[1412] They're running around here somewhere.

[1413] They'll bring them one here shortly.

[1414] Okay, good deal.

[1415] All right.

[1416] You never know about our team.

[1417] They may just take them for a walk, you know, as possible.

[1418] Yeah, very cool.

[1419] All right, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is now that you've done it?

[1420] It's up to you.

[1421] You want to take it or do you want me to take it?

[1422] I think that what we experienced is that things are going to happen that are going to throw us off track.

[1423] Like having a kid, COVID happened during our debt -free journey.

[1424] And moving, just, we just had periods of chaos.

[1425] Go ahead.

[1426] And the Bible says, you know, a righteous man falls seven times and gets back up.

[1427] And I think that was big for us.

[1428] You know, you're going to have mess ups.

[1429] You're going to have months maybe where you blew it or, you know, car accident happens or mother's day happens and something just throws throws you off and um and you just have to keep getting back up and trying and trying and trying you know and it was amazing when we would do that we would pray and recommit ourselves to the lord um just on being intentional with this journey and and and we would see things happen we would most immediately after most immediately if we'd you know get back on the horse and you know say we're going to keep we're going to keep at this and almost immediately God would bless us with some new thing that just came out of the blue that's going to accelerate the plan.

[1430] Yeah, it's very cool.

[1431] Very cool.

[1432] Congratulations, you guys.

[1433] We're very proud of you.

[1434] Excellent.

[1435] Who was cheering you on as you went through this?

[1436] Probably our biggest cheerleaders were Jim and Joe Addington.

[1437] We actually started helping them with the FPU class, so we went twice a year every year.

[1438] So you're coordinators now.

[1439] All right.

[1440] And, yeah, and our parents as well.

[1441] Our parents were very considerate of our situation.

[1442] and, you know, they were okay with us being crazy cheap at Christmas and birthdays, and they knew what we were doing.

[1443] So then they supported us in it.

[1444] All right.

[1445] Let's bring Levi and Samuel into the pick here.

[1446] There we go.

[1447] Very cool.

[1448] And, uh, hey guys, congratulations.

[1449] Stephen, Jasmine, Samuel, and Levi, San Antonio, Texas, $81 ,000 paid off in 52 months, making 53 to 122.

[1450] Count it down.

[1451] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[1452] Wine?

[1453] Two, three, we're dead three.

[1454] Very cool.

[1455] Very cool.

[1456] Those little boys have their whole life change because mom and dad took control.

[1457] That's pretty amazing.

[1458] I love the way she said that I was a wife, and so I was like, where's my house?

[1459] And I mean, I remember I got my first job, and I was like, all right, I got my first job.

[1460] Now where's fill in the blank?

[1461] All the stuff that comes with it.

[1462] And again, it's just not how math works.

[1463] Nope.

[1464] They don't do it that way.

[1465] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1466] Dr. John Deloney -Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[1467] Our scripture of the day is Psalm 104.

[1468] Enter his gates with thanksgiving and his courts with praise.

[1469] Give thanks to him and praise to his name.

[1470] Zig Zigler said, be grateful for what you have and stop complaining.

[1471] It bores everybody else.

[1472] Does you no good and doesn't solve any problems.

[1473] so this is fun news release warren buffett gives away another 5 .3 billion says his children will manage the estate warren buffett on friday made his biggest annual donation to date giving 5 .3 billion worth of berkshire berkshire hathaway shares to five charities the oracle of omaha has pledged to give away the fortune he built at berkshire the omaha -dabraska base conglomerate he started running in 1965 buffet has been making annual donations to the five charities since 2006.

[1474] In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Buffett clarified that after his death, the enormous fortune he amassed from building the one -of -a -conglomerate will be directed to a new charitable trust overseen by his three children.

[1475] Buffett has previously said his three children are the executors of his will, as well as the named trustees of the charitable trust that will receive 99 % of his wealth.

[1476] He said his will be made public after his death.

[1477] After my death, the disposition of my assets will be an open book, no imaginative trusts or foreign entities to avoid public scrutiny, but rather a simple will available for inspection at the Douglas County Courthouse.

[1478] Hey, so there's a question inside of here.

[1479] This shows my ignorance here.

[1480] What is a A share versus a B share?

[1481] It says that he owns 207 ,000 Berkshire A shares and then 2 ,500 B shares.

[1482] not positive at Berkshire.

[1483] It means there's two classes of shareholders, but I don't know what rights those two classes have.

[1484] A shares would be in line first and would have probably been issued first, probably have some kind of superior ownership rights.

[1485] The thing is, when you donate stock to a charity, it's a marked up basis, which means that, say, let's say the $5 .3 billion worth of A shares he gave.

[1486] Was it A shares that he gave?

[1487] Is that what he said?

[1488] Oh, it just says that's what he's worth.

[1489] He's worth about $130 billion.

[1490] Okay.

[1491] Or $1 .30, yeah, okay.

[1492] And so, let's just say he donated $5 .3 billion worth of shares.

[1493] Okay.

[1494] His cost on those shares is not relevant to his write -off.

[1495] he gets to write off the value the value not what he paid okay so anytime you're doing a donation and you can donate real estate that has gone up in value you get the market value as you're right off not the purchase price gotcha and so uh and that's true of stock as well so if you buy a stock for i don't know uh a million dollars worth of stock and it goes up to 10 million dollars when you donate it to a charity, you get a $10 million write -off, even though you only paid $1 million for it.

[1496] What I remember the other side of that, I remember being at a university where they received a gift that was going to be paid out over five years, but they got to book it in year one, which built up their borrowing ability.

[1497] And I was like, that doesn't feel like real money.

[1498] It's not.

[1499] It's cruel accounting.

[1500] But the, yeah, the endowment is what that's for.

[1501] Yeah, that's a different scenario.

[1502] but it works kind of similarly in the sense that you get a stepped -up basis on charitable donations of assets.

[1503] So that's good.

[1504] It's great.

[1505] He's an incredibly generous man. It's wonderful.

[1506] Incredibly generous.

[1507] But it always circles back to whether you have $130 billion or $135 billion before this donation or your net worth or if you have $50 ,000 being intentional about the fact that you're not going to be here anymore.

[1508] Yeah, is important and to think it through.

[1509] Yeah, it is.

[1510] And you know, the more you have, the more intentional you've got to be because the government will take half of it with this little thing called a death tax called the estate tax.

[1511] And so you've got assets over 20 million bucks.

[1512] The government will take 55 % of every dollar if you don't have a plan.

[1513] So after you've already paid taxes on it once, by the way.

[1514] So because they love you and they just want to take care of you, they're just, Giving that way.

[1515] But anyway, Buffett, thank you, Warren Buffett, for setting the tone.

[1516] Charitable giving and publicizing that is always a good thing because it encourages other people.

[1517] And it doesn't mean that Warren Buffett is holy.

[1518] He is a good person.

[1519] I think he's a good person.

[1520] And all appearances are he's a good person.

[1521] I don't know him personally, but all appearances are he's, you know, run a clean ship.

[1522] And is obviously generous.

[1523] So very cool.

[1524] Cool stuff.

[1525] James is with us.

[1526] James is in Fort Worth, Texas.

[1527] Hi, James.

[1528] How are you?

[1529] Oh, but on Earth, how are you all?

[1530] Just the same, sir.

[1531] How can we help?

[1532] So my wife and I just got married four months ago, and we were looking at trying to figure out what to do to get out of our debt, and came across to you guys.

[1533] There's some friends at church, and we just finished up Total Money Makeover and are super excited.

[1534] Wow.

[1535] We set up our every dollar budget, and we were a gazelle and 10.

[1536] getting ready to start, and then she told me the next day, we are expecting.

[1537] Yay!

[1538] We might be a balancing baby coming in February.

[1539] Wow, that's cool, James.

[1540] Thank you, thank you.

[1541] The best news in the world.

[1542] Oh, it absolutely is.

[1543] And so we're trying to just handle this right.

[1544] Oh, man, how do we take care of all these goals at once following the baby steps?

[1545] Can I give you a snapshot here?

[1546] Let me just tell you.

[1547] Let me answer your question first, and then we'll see how much of your snapshot we actually have to get into okay absolutely yeah don't start the baby steps right now okay instead push pause okay and I do want you to be on the every dollar app and I do want you to squeeze every dime out of your budget but I just want you to stack cash all right for nine months like when baby comes okay so how much money do you think you can save you've just done your every dollar budget kids you can save a month for the next nine months if you put put every, like you were intense, gazelle intense, and you're getting out of debt.

[1548] You're going to be so focused, but instead of throwing it at the debt, you're going to throw it in an account, and you're going to really work hard to build up as much as you can build up.

[1549] How much can you save a month?

[1550] We're looking at anywhere from about $2 ,000 to $2 ,000 to $200 a month.

[1551] Okay, let's just call it $2 ,000 for fun.

[1552] Let's call it $2 ,000 for fun.

[1553] Yeah.

[1554] Okay.

[1555] Nine months, that's $18 ,000, agreed?

[1556] Yes, sir.

[1557] Okay, so you should have $18 to $20 ,000 in an account when baby comes.

[1558] that gives us a little extra peace of mind at an exciting time, but also a bit of a scary time when you're having your first baby.

[1559] Okay.

[1560] Now, when baby comes home healthy and mommy comes home healthy and everything's cool, and you've got good insurance, I'm sure, and so all the bills are paid.

[1561] We were still sitting there looking at $20 ,000 in your account, agreed?

[1562] Yes, sir.

[1563] Then you push play on your total money makeover.

[1564] When you push play, that means you're going to take everything out but $1 ,000 and throw it at your debt snowball.

[1565] And your debt snowballs listed smallest to largest.

[1566] How much debt do you have, not counting a house?

[1567] So we are just under $70 ,000.

[1568] Okay.

[1569] And so if we have 20 in the end of nine months, we would throw that at it with $1 ,000 left in the account for Baby Step 1.

[1570] And the first $20 ,000 of your $70 ,000 is gone instantly.

[1571] you would have already paid that $20 ,000 on it.

[1572] Were you working a total money makeover baby steps during this nine months?

[1573] So you really have not lost any ground except a tiny bit of interest.

[1574] Good, good, good.

[1575] But that gives you some padding for baby, and I want a little extra padding because if there's a little bit of a hiccup or something, I want you to have some money.

[1576] Yes, sir, yes, sir.

[1577] And James.

[1578] Yeah.

[1579] No seven -month -old baby in human history has sat down.

[1580] up and said, ugh, I don't like this crib.

[1581] Can we get a nicer one?

[1582] I hate the wallpaper.

[1583] No baby in human history has ever sat up and said, ugh, this room is too small.

[1584] I hate the wallpaper.

[1585] Can we repaint this and create an Instagram worthy, all that?

[1586] You're going to, you're going to get 20 ,000 bucks in the account.

[1587] You're going to want to get a stroller made by Volvo.

[1588] You're going to want to do all kinds of extra spending.

[1589] You're going to have to have incredible discipline to send all that money away.

[1590] This is not for anything except health of the baby and health of the mom.

[1591] That's the only thing the money's for.

[1592] Otherwise, everything you do for baby has to come out of the budget.

[1593] And you're going to throw all 100 % of this money towards the debt.

[1594] That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show and the books.

[1595] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1596] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace.

[1597] And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace.

[1598] Christ Jesus.

[1599] Hey folks, Dave here.

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