Barbie Ferreira

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Minica Lilica Podman.

[3] Oh my God.

[4] That sounded like...

[5] I was going underwater.

[6] Yeah, and a little bit like you made it Hawaiian.

[7] Oh, okay, a little appropriation.

[8] A little light of probe.

[9] Okay, well, we have an actor on the show today from one of our favorites.

[10] Favorite shows.

[11] Sexy show.

[12] Brilliant show, intent show.

[13] Yeah, euphoria show.

[14] They called the euphoria show.

[15] Barbie Ferreira is on today, and she was one of my favorite parts of euphoria.

[16] She's great.

[17] Yeah, we get to talk a ton about that.

[18] So also in divorce, nope, she was a pop -out nope.

[19] Yeah.

[20] In the after party, she's got a new movie out this fall, House of Spoils.

[21] Mm -hmm.

[22] Please enjoy Barbie Ferreira.

[23] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[24] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[25] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[26] He's an armchair.

[27] Yes, welcome.

[28] I'm so excited.

[29] You are too.

[30] That's Shannon over there.

[31] I got my license like two years ago.

[32] So I'm from New York.

[33] We're working on.

[34] How long have you had that vehicle?

[35] You know, you wouldn't know, but all I care about is cars.

[36] Really?

[37] Very impressive machine to arrive.

[38] Thank you.

[39] Yes.

[40] Which is so happy.

[41] Oh, yeah.

[42] Monica has a fucking super gangster.

[43] A .M .G. Also a Mercedes.

[44] I didn't pick it.

[45] I feel like I can't take it.

[46] Is he a good idea?

[47] Yeah, because I didn't pick it.

[48] Yeah, exactly.

[49] I picked Shannon just based off her looks.

[50] I have no idea about cars.

[51] Did you just walk into a Mercedes dealership?

[52] Yeah, and I was like, I kind of want the one that looked cute.

[53] You understand, like, the journey for me to get a driver's license was years.

[54] I'm like, from New York, I don't really know.

[55] It took four times to get my license.

[56] It was very much.

[57] Because you found the written portion or you failed the driving portion?

[58] The written portion, I know all the rules by heart.

[59] Okay, but you really fucked up.

[60] Yes.

[61] Okay.

[62] What were some of your transgressions?

[63] Big ones.

[64] Okay, okay.

[65] Carral Park.

[66] Like, no, there's not even that because it's California.

[67] Just the left turns.

[68] I just get nervous.

[69] And I had to do a movie where it was a road trip movie.

[70] So I had to take my...

[71] I was so nervous.

[72] I was going to get fired from this movie.

[73] And I didn't get it.

[74] The whole movie's hinging now on this...

[75] Yeah, we worked...

[76] They thankfully worked around it.

[77] I had a permit, so, like, my co -star obviously has, like, a fucking license.

[78] So he just worked around him.

[79] I was crying.

[80] And the Hollywood DMV, too.

[81] I'm like, they really set me up for failure.

[82] At, like, 9 a .m. I finally got it, and then I didn't get anything wrong.

[83] I love this.

[84] You do.

[85] I do.

[86] I'm like...

[87] Do you feel like that...

[88] That's how I feel.

[89] That's why I do this.

[90] I'm suddenly in like my sexy register.

[91] Right.

[92] Exactly.

[93] Right.

[94] Like when you put the headphones on, you can get down just real bedroom talk almost.

[95] Just a little bit like this.

[96] No one's going to recognize my voice because usually I'm like up here.

[97] I'm very silly.

[98] So this is good.

[99] You're the first Barbie I've ever met in real life.

[100] Really?

[101] Yes.

[102] Have you ever met another Barbie?

[103] I have not.

[104] But I've heard of Barbies through rumblings.

[105] Well, my name is Barbara.

[106] Okay.

[107] I didn't think that was very cute.

[108] When I was a teenager, I was like, I don't need to go buy something a little cute.

[109] Babs was okay.

[110] I mean, I went Barb.

[111] Barbie.

[112] So I immediately started guessing because you're Brazilian?

[113] Yes.

[114] So my thought was, oh, your parents moved here and like Barbie did them with something else.

[115] It didn't, you know what I'm saying?

[116] That can happen.

[117] But Barbara Ferreira is an incredibly common name in Brazil.

[118] It is.

[119] Barbara Ferreira.

[120] That's Joe Smith.

[121] Absolutely.

[122] Like a Ferreira, Tashita.

[123] The fact that you've never bumped into another Barbie really kind of I'm waiting for the days.

[124] I was going to be pointing at each other like you.

[125] My father had a girlfriend for a while that we called Malibu Barbie because she was incredibly tan in Michigan all year round.

[126] Love.

[127] Okay, but her name, was her name Barbara?

[128] No, her name was Deborah.

[129] Pretty close.

[130] Okay, we still got some hard bees.

[131] We got a bee in there.

[132] We got an R. Everyone's grandma's name Barbara here.

[133] So everyone's like, oh, my mom's name is Barbara.

[134] I was trying to be young and cool.

[135] I was like Barbie.

[136] And it stuck.

[137] It stuck.

[138] I think that's smart because you just went to a memorial for a barbara.

[139] I did, yeah, but she did not go by Barbie.

[140] She didn't, but I'm just saying she was older.

[141] She was, yeah.

[142] It's like a vintage name.

[143] I've come to like it now, but I was a baby named Barbara in America.

[144] Baby Barbara.

[145] I like that.

[146] I thought it was a little ridiculous to go by Barbie.

[147] I was like, who do I think?

[148] But then I started modeling.

[149] You know, I was trying to feel myself.

[150] I was like, I'm going to go by Barbie Ferreira.

[151] Yeah.

[152] You, like, created a persona.

[153] Yeah, because everyone calls me different things.

[154] Are both your parents from Brazil?

[155] Yes.

[156] How old were they when they?

[157] they moved here.

[158] My mom moved either she was 18 or 20.

[159] She had me very quickly after because my dad was her roommate, but he was also Brazilian.

[160] Because they lived in a story of Queens where there was like a little bit of a Brazilian community there.

[161] Okay.

[162] So they were roommates and then they had me. Wait, so they were roommates?

[163] They fell in love or they just?

[164] They fell in love.

[165] They got married.

[166] Yeah.

[167] They fell in love after they had.

[168] They did not get married.

[169] We're trying to get the timeline sequence of events.

[170] So my mom was a very young, beautiful woman.

[171] Wouldn't mind seeing some pictures.

[172] Yeah.

[173] Well, I'll show you some pictures.

[174] She's gorgeous.

[175] We'll break out Monica's grandma pictures.

[176] Oh, my God, let's do it.

[177] I love to bring out all our...

[178] All the hotties.

[179] My mom is like the more like traditionally hot tan.

[180] She's a green eye.

[181] My stereotypical Brazilian.

[182] Yes.

[183] Her name is John Onino.

[184] Big ass.

[185] Is that too rude ass?

[186] Wait, what did you say?

[187] Big ass.

[188] That's what we've really come to love about the Brazilian aesthetic.

[189] There is big ass everywhere.

[190] Yeah, well, we can back that up.

[191] Like if you look at, they were the first to have ass implants.

[192] It's a very butt heavy.

[193] They treat the butt like we treated the boobs in the 80s.

[194] Yes, exactly.

[195] So I just went to Brazil.

[196] I went to Rio for a couple weeks.

[197] I was admiring the butts.

[198] I was like, everyone just looks so perfect here.

[199] Yeah.

[200] My mom does have a big butt and my grandma.

[201] I'd love to see you at.

[202] Yeah, I'll show you.

[203] Okay.

[204] We get it.

[205] We get it.

[206] You want to see them off.

[207] She is a milp.

[208] I will say.

[209] Okay, so she was classically Brazilian beautiful.

[210] Yeah.

[211] And then your dad.

[212] So they were roommates.

[213] They were college roommates.

[214] They're just immigrants that were both there at the same time.

[215] So a lot of people from the state Minnesota, where my mom's from, they moved to America.

[216] There's a community in, like, Massachusetts.

[217] Massachusetts Randi or like Florida, right?

[218] So, the story of Queens at the time had a big Brazilian community.

[219] And so I think my mom just found a roommate who was Brazilian.

[220] And then they - In the paper or through the church?

[221] No, like these communities just congregate.

[222] I know, but I totally get that, but you arrive.

[223] You got someone's number, right?

[224] Yeah.

[225] I would still need to know like, hey, I've got a place.

[226] There's a dude also living in the place.

[227] Yeah.

[228] Like, this person's looking for a roommate.

[229] I need the mechanics of that.

[230] My mom was like really young and naive.

[231] I actually have no idea.

[232] Maybe a mutual friend.

[233] I'm not to ask her because that's actually a really great question.

[234] Yeah, because a co -ed roommate ship in 1995 -ish.

[235] What year was this?

[236] Yeah, 95.

[237] I don't know.

[238] That seems advanced.

[239] It was spicy, for sure.

[240] I mean, they had a kid.

[241] Clearly.

[242] This is why they don't do it, is you end up having a kid.

[243] Yeah, no, and literally.

[244] It was a very short -lived romance, but I did come out of this.

[245] Did you have a relationship with your father?

[246] I had a relationship with my father until I was about seven, and then he bounced.

[247] To this day, don't really know where he is.

[248] He's like in Portugal sometimes, in Brazil sometimes.

[249] He'll, like, send me messages.

[250] My cliche fear is, now that you're on TV, maybe there's more messages?

[251] Absolutely.

[252] I mean, I don't talk to him for a reason.

[253] I haven't since I was a kid.

[254] He was not a very good man. First of all, he was a lot older than my mom.

[255] I was probably like 15 years.

[256] She was 20, he was 35, which is fine.

[257] And he loves having, like, young girlfriends.

[258] And, like, he's, like, kind of like that.

[259] He's not a kind of guy I wanted my life.

[260] And he was so mean to my mom.

[261] To this day, he'll just, like, pop in just to be an asshole.

[262] He's like a narcissist.

[263] And he's never really done anything with his life.

[264] Oh, my God.

[265] I'm being scathing.

[266] But whatever.

[267] he totally abandoned me. So, you know, I'm happy now in my life that I didn't grow up with him, but I grew up with my mom, my grandma, my aunt, all women.

[268] My grandma always lived with us.

[269] So she kind of took on a role of, like, parents.

[270] My mom worked.

[271] Did grandma come after mom moved?

[272] So my grandma moved when I was born.

[273] I was 18 when she moved.

[274] She was like, I'm the babysitter and then I'm gone.

[275] Oh.

[276] Yeah.

[277] She's great.

[278] That's really special.

[279] Thank you, grandma.

[280] I love grandma.

[281] So grandma came in to help her baby have a baby.

[282] Yeah, because my mom went to culinary school.

[283] school.

[284] She did an internship.

[285] And your grandma was a chef as well?

[286] No, my aunt was a chef.

[287] My grandma cleaned houses.

[288] In the summers, I would go to her all these like nice houses and I'd be like, wow, okay, let's slow down, let's slow down, let's slow down.

[289] This could be a series.

[290] Well, first of all, I was broke.

[291] My mother would do this thing pretty regularly.

[292] She would take us to these neighborhoods in Bloomfield Hills or West Bloomfield, the really fancy suburbs of Detroit.

[293] And she would say, look at these houses.

[294] Do you want to live in them?

[295] They went to college.

[296] That was pretty much the theme of it.

[297] And the way we would look at these houses and the imagination I had of what was happening inside those houses was so elaborate, right?

[298] I mean, this was like such an unimaginable life.

[299] And if you would have let me go in and fucking snoop around while my grandma's cleaning, I feel like that would have been heaven.

[300] Oh, I totally did.

[301] And she would sometimes clean like families and sometimes would be like a social light in New York.

[302] You know what I mean?

[303] And I'd be like, ooh, snooping around.

[304] It was so fun.

[305] And I get to like watch their TV and I get to like sit on their nice couch.

[306] I did not eat their food.

[307] Oh, because we didn't have snacks.

[308] I would have been, like, eating all their cookies and drinking their pop.

[309] And, you know, it was very inspiring.

[310] I was very poor growing up, right?

[311] Single mom.

[312] We, like, lived in an apartment of Queens.

[313] We shared rooms and all that stuff.

[314] But everyone I went to school with was equally as poor.

[315] So I actually didn't really realize that I was different.

[316] And then I would see these houses and I was like, damn, this is like what I want.

[317] They'd be in, like, beautiful suburbs sometimes in New York.

[318] And I'd just be like, oh, my God, there's grass.

[319] And there's places to, like, you know, play.

[320] Because I didn't have that.

[321] So every time I saw a house.

[322] period.

[323] I was so in all.

[324] Like, you have an upstairs?

[325] Like, that's crazy.

[326] Like a dining room.

[327] That's insane.

[328] I'm also an only child.

[329] So I was just on my own journey since I was a baby.

[330] She would, like, do her thing.

[331] And then I would like walk around.

[332] I would just snoop.

[333] I had a very imaginative.

[334] Did you ever steal anything?

[335] I never stole anything.

[336] Wow.

[337] I've stolen other things in my life for sure, for sure, but nothing from the houses.

[338] I know how you did what you say to yourself is like they got so much.

[339] They're not even going to notice.

[340] They have all of the stuff.

[341] Exactly.

[342] You know, I never.

[343] I should have.

[344] Maybe I didn't.

[345] I just, I don't remember.

[346] You're a better person.

[347] than Monica and I. Monica fucking stole cookies from a classmate.

[348] And he wasn't even privileged.

[349] Your parents made more money than his.

[350] We don't know that.

[351] I know.

[352] His level of wealth.

[353] You're two professional parents.

[354] This kid was unassisted.

[355] He had the best cookies that obviously my parents couldn't provide for me. Here's the clue.

[356] Were they homemade or were they storebot?

[357] They were storebot.

[358] Oh, they were.

[359] Okay.

[360] So he was doing all right.

[361] Yeah, he was fine.

[362] He was really rich.

[363] But yeah, I would have probably would have taken a couple.

[364] things.

[365] I should have.

[366] I totally should have.

[367] That's funny.

[368] That's your regret.

[369] That's like I should have stolen something.

[370] Big regrets.

[371] You should steal some shit from my house.

[372] Just you wait.

[373] Yeah, we have too money.

[374] I'm going to put in my pants.

[375] I don't have any pockets.

[376] No, it's karma.

[377] That's what.

[378] Now you have Shannon.

[379] Yeah.

[380] It all worked out.

[381] I thank you.

[382] Oh, my gosh.

[383] Thank you.

[384] Shannon is getting a shout out.

[385] She's going to be so happy.

[386] You might not have gotten her if you had stolen.

[387] I agree.

[388] Maybe it would have been bad karma.

[389] Yeah.

[390] There's some performance features on your vehicle.

[391] I don't think that's why you bought it.

[392] No, I bought her strictly because she's cute.

[393] I've never put her in, like, sport mode or any of that sort.

[394] Is it an AMG?

[395] There's three tiers, and it's the second tier.

[396] So there's got AMG components.

[397] It probably doesn't have the twin turbo motor in it, or does it?

[398] Wrong person has.

[399] But you know what?

[400] She does purse.

[401] While you're pillaging my house, I'll rip her on the block and I'll tell you exactly.

[402] I'll beat the shit out of her.

[403] Someone's got to do it.

[404] I feel like she's been ready to go fast.

[405] I'm a very careful driver because I'm so scared.

[406] And she's big, so I feel powerful on the road.

[407] You know what I mean?

[408] I had to take Monica for a ride in her car.

[409] just to let her know what could happen in a pinch.

[410] I was so scared to drive it for a long time, for like three days.

[411] For three days?

[412] I was like, I don't think I can drive.

[413] I've cried in Shannon because I was scared to drive her many times.

[414] In the beginning, oh, my God.

[415] And then I messed up her mirror once and I was driving to work at like 5 a .m. Oh, my God, it was awful.

[416] And I literally just in my car crying.

[417] Like, oh, my God, I'm such an idiot.

[418] I knew I didn't deserve the car.

[419] I knew I should have got my license.

[420] So Queens in the 90s, early 2000s, I was.

[421] I have a kind of fun romantic notion of it, like kids being free to wander around the streets.

[422] Was it eventful and colorful?

[423] For me, it wasn't because I felt like when I was a kid, I was very internal.

[424] So I was very imaginative.

[425] I didn't have a lot of friends.

[426] I was kind of made fun of a lot.

[427] So I moved to Jersey at one point.

[428] I begged my mom.

[429] I was like, I can't be in this environment.

[430] It was like very rough.

[431] I started acting.

[432] It was like perfect.

[433] I used to do like little theater at the Boys and Girls Club.

[434] This is where I get to be the sensitive person.

[435] I wasn't cut out for it just yet.

[436] When I lived in New York, when I moved back when I was 17, I felt a little bit more ready to have that thicker skin.

[437] But as a baby, I was like, I had dreams of being in the suburbs and like writing a bike, which I still don't know how to do to this day, you know.

[438] Oh, you and Monica should take a bike ride.

[439] It took me a while.

[440] I was a late bike rider.

[441] I have dreams of writing a bike.

[442] This is my dream of at night, you know.

[443] And like, you know, running around and I would visit some friends who would, like, move out.

[444] And like, I'm like, oh, my God, there's a meadow.

[445] But to me, that was really exciting.

[446] But I was a very lonesome kid.

[447] I credit that to my creativity and, like, what I do now.

[448] And I wouldn't take it back.

[449] But it was a little bit lonely there, I would say.

[450] Did you have a best friend?

[451] I always had just one best friend.

[452] You can get by.

[453] I always tell people, you just need one.

[454] You need one best friend that you can commiserate with.

[455] I always had a best friend who was a bigger personality than me. Okay, they took the attention.

[456] Yes.

[457] Who was your best friend?

[458] So my first best friend is Jessica DeSantos.

[459] I remember we lived in the same building.

[460] Shout out DeSantos.

[461] Yes, Mama.

[462] She was Brazilian, too.

[463] She lived in the same building as me. And we lived in the different side.

[464] So I lived on the right side.

[465] And do you speak Portuguese?

[466] Yes.

[467] You do.

[468] And did she?

[469] Yeah.

[470] And so you guys could secretly talk to each other.

[471] Yeah.

[472] And we both came from Brazilian single moms in the same building.

[473] Same thing.

[474] She was a year older than me. Same dad.

[475] Yeah.

[476] Same dad.

[477] Could you imagine?

[478] Oh, my God.

[479] You know, to this day, I think one day I'm going to wake up and it's going to be like, oh, I'm your sister.

[480] Yeah.

[481] There's just, you know, for me, I think about that all the time.

[482] You know, I would definitely take the route you're on.

[483] Hey, my dad was pretty great.

[484] but just the fact that he left and my mom was who I was rooting for made me and him adversaries in my mind.

[485] So I blocked him out way more than he even deserved.

[486] I still saw him every other weekend and he loved the shit out of me and stuff.

[487] And I gave him a rough time.

[488] She was killing herself for us and I was very aware of that.

[489] I think Jamie Fox is somebody I heard interviewed and the way he embraced his dad who had left in the relationship they had or even there's a great Shaquille.

[490] commentary out right now.

[491] It's like forever.

[492] He didn't want nothing to do with that guy.

[493] He's very judgmental of him.

[494] And then he repeated a lot of the stuff he hated about his dad.

[495] And he got to a point where he's like, you know, who am I to be saying this?

[496] And as much as I've done that, I have great respect for people that can accept the person's fuckups and be bigger.

[497] I always saw that scenario where the kid gets famous and the parents starts coming around.

[498] It's very opportunistic and selfish.

[499] Yes.

[500] But I also can see now having kids, if I got to see them, it would just remind me how much I regretted and maybe miss them and want to be with them.

[501] And I could not have a shitty motive, although it reads is so shitty.

[502] I just think it's so fucking complicated.

[503] My father is like the most complicated issue in my head ever.

[504] Sometimes I'm like, maybe I should reach out.

[505] You would think that when you grow older, you would be nicer.

[506] He has not a single apologetic bone in his body, you know, and I'm hoping that one day he will.

[507] And it's like, to this day, just kind of the same old thing.

[508] He wants to be able to blow in and pick up, but like he didn't do anything.

[509] He's always like, yeah, like, I don't care.

[510] Like, I live in Portugal and I have like young girlfriend.

[511] I was like, your age, you know what I'm trying to like make a tiny bit of a case for him.

[512] It's getting harder every bit of information.

[513] Me and my mom had a rough relationship, too.

[514] It was me and her, and we're so close in age.

[515] My mom had me at, like, 21.

[516] So she was very young from a very big.

[517] very small town in Brazil.

[518] We grew up together.

[519] Yeah, how's she doing living in Queens?

[520] Talk about you having a rough adjustment.

[521] I imagine for her, too.

[522] She loves New York.

[523] She's now in Mount Vernon.

[524] I don't think she would ever live anywhere else.

[525] She spends a lot of time in Brazil now, but she loves it there.

[526] She has her fiancé there, who's also Brazilian.

[527] She has her friends there.

[528] I think my mom really wanted to get out of her small town because she was, you know, it's kind of funny.

[529] I was watching Melena the other day.

[530] I was like, this is my mom.

[531] What movie?

[532] Melina.

[533] I'm in Monica Bullichore.

[534] She's just so beautiful.

[535] Everyone in the town, like, hates her.

[536] I make fun of her for that because she's such a powerful woman.

[537] And she's so loud and fun.

[538] She's like the center of attention.

[539] Do you think she might have been frustrated that you were so quiet and reserved and wanted you to click into being an extrovert or something?

[540] Was there some part of her that worried you were going to get hurt by being quiet?

[541] One thing about my mom is she's never told me who to be, what to be.

[542] My mom was totally okay with who I was.

[543] And it was almost like very hands -off parenting.

[544] I did my own thing.

[545] I was like emailing agents at eight with my drama.

[546] a teacher being like, I'm going to be a star.

[547] I know.

[548] You know what I mean?

[549] Put me in the commercials.

[550] And she had no idea what I was doing.

[551] I think as a kid, it wasn't the right environment for me. When I got older and I was living my own life, she thinks of me as like a clone of her, which is good and bad.

[552] She's like, well, I don't go through that.

[553] I'm like, yeah, because we're two different people.

[554] But she doesn't see that because we do look a lot alike.

[555] It's a very strong bond that can be chaotic.

[556] Yeah.

[557] Well, when things are challenging as they are in that situation, single mom, grandma's around, Something gets forged in it that's kind of beautiful.

[558] Exactly.

[559] You're basically in war together is what it is.

[560] Oh, it's war.

[561] And they came for Christmas.

[562] I was like, all right, everyone's here for four days.

[563] Let's behave.

[564] Four strong women with strong personalities.

[565] Everyone's budding heads.

[566] Everyone loves each other so much.

[567] Everyone's like each other's world.

[568] It is interesting what you said that she's so close in age because also with the presence of the grandma, the mixture of that probably feels very sisterly.

[569] Yes.

[570] As opposed to maternal.

[571] Yes.

[572] Because you're watching your mom.

[573] He's a maternal person there.

[574] Also, I spent a lot of time with my grandma because my mom worked a lot, especially in my first 10 years of my life.

[575] I didn't see my mom as much as I should.

[576] So my grandma was like my whole life.

[577] Me and my grandma, we'd gossip and we were a team.

[578] You know, sometimes when you're a teenager and you're so nasty to your mom, like my grandma would always be on my side.

[579] It was a very funny household to live in.

[580] Let's just take one second to shout out grandparents because you had that, Monica.

[581] I had it.

[582] My Papa Bob was my dad.

[583] That was the dude who had dedicated his life to me. and was always there and always wanted me and always had time.

[584] I admired him, and he had character and integrity, and he's the model I had.

[585] And you had that from your grandmother.

[586] Yeah, I mean, the investment that they had in me was the same level that they had in their kids.

[587] Maybe more right, because they had more time for you.

[588] Yeah, exactly.

[589] You can write your wrongs.

[590] My mom would always tell me she wasn't like that growing up.

[591] Yeah, my dad said the same thing.

[592] Yeah, same.

[593] My mom, too.

[594] Of course you love Popovol.

[595] That's not how he treated me. And I'm like, well, not my business.

[596] Yeah, that's what they do with me This guy spoils the shit out of me I don't know what to tell you I know What age did you move to New Jersey Towards the end of middle school And then I did high school In Jersey And then I moved right after at 17 Was Jersey, did it live up to your fantasy?

[597] It did not But it was a little better I'm also just with age I found friends And I lost friends And I found friends And I still have a really good friend Hannah who is now a nurse We've been through it We used to be like neighbors We had a strong bond It was high school, and high school for me was, like, torturous.

[598] I wanted to be an adult so bad because I already kind of felt like an adult because I had to make my own decisions and do my own things.

[599] I just wanted, like, the freedom of it.

[600] And I started modeling in the middle of high school.

[601] So you've modeled for so many things, Adidas, Azos, Forever 21, H &M, Ms. Scott, I had Target.

[602] Were you working a lot in high school?

[603] I was a little bit young for school, so I was 16.

[604] I was a senior.

[605] And I started modeling for American Apparel, and I worked at the store in the mall, the Garden State Plaza.

[606] Oh, wow.

[607] In Paris, this New Jersey.

[608] So I was doing both.

[609] The kids in my school could not care less.

[610] So it was actually kind of funny.

[611] No one really noticed me, and they still didn't.

[612] Right.

[613] It's also counterintuitive that you were feeling the way you were feeling and being treated the way you were.

[614] And you thought, I should be a model.

[615] Yeah.

[616] I just sent in a picture.

[617] And then they were like, okay, cool.

[618] Let's do it.

[619] It didn't pay me anything.

[620] It was just more like I was in the store that I was working in, you know?

[621] Or like on the internet.

[622] And a lot of people would see those pictures.

[623] And it felt really validating.

[624] but it was more like, I want to go do my own thing.

[625] So, okay, a lot of people get into punk rock music, as I did, because it's pretty approachable.

[626] You go see a show, and it's like normal people that can kind of play.

[627] And there was something about American Apparel, as I recall it, that felt like real human beings.

[628] Absolutely.

[629] Because at the time, I was like, there's no way.

[630] I'm not skinny enough to be a high fashion model.

[631] And I didn't really know about curve and plus size modeling.

[632] I remember being like, I don't even think this is going to work.

[633] And then I came in and I was like, are you guys sure?

[634] Because I wanted to be an actress since I was a kid.

[635] Everything I ever did was to be an actor.

[636] So even in the first American Apparel shoot, I remember being like, you know, they have like a little bio of you.

[637] She's like, she wants to be an actress.

[638] You know what I mean?

[639] So I was kind of like, okay, this is not my lane because I don't fit the type.

[640] You know, I'm 5A, but I was in 5 '10 and like a size zero.

[641] But it was very approachable.

[642] And I like styled myself.

[643] It was like in the basement of one of the stores.

[644] It was really nice experience and I felt really cool.

[645] I remember American Apparel starting to advertise all over the city.

[646] Yeah.

[647] And how like absolutely around.

[648] the stuff was because it was novel.

[649] You were like, oh, my God, that's not what I'm used to seen.

[650] Yeah.

[651] And there was like an era where it was like very kind of sexualized pictures and that was like I was kind of post that.

[652] So it started everything.

[653] I met cool people.

[654] I started sneaking out into the city going all like the art shows and the parties.

[655] For example, like Petra Collins was like one of my great friends and collaborators to this day.

[656] I met so many people through it and I kind of blossomed out of feeling frustrated.

[657] And then when I met her, she started shooting me for Max.

[658] So we did like an ID magazine.

[659] I started like modeling for artists.

[660] There's a very convenient parallel here between who you played on Euphoria.

[661] Yes.

[662] It's kind of crazy, right?

[663] Yeah, that's true.

[664] I felt very moved by her.

[665] I remember being like, I can do this one.

[666] This one I know I can do.

[667] I'm like, there's no way they can't give this to me. And they did, which was really happy.

[668] Also, we interviewed Pamela Anderson.

[669] Love.

[670] And she was talking about being a very shy, very traumatized, sexually person.

[671] and then getting in the first photo shoot and then just finding a gear within herself, which is like, I'm a performer.

[672] Outside of this, none of that stuff exists.

[673] And how she had two personas, one that was that and then one that was the kid she was.

[674] Absolutely.

[675] I think at first, when the pictures came out, you know, I was like a teenage girl in this world that tells you what you need to look like.

[676] Obviously, there was people saying me, they, you know, that's like standard.

[677] And I was 16, so I hadn't like accepted that yet.

[678] So I spiraled and then I was like, you know what I'm going to do, I'm just going to do it, and I'm not going to be sad about it, and I'm going to just amp it up.

[679] And that was kind of a decision I made to just continue.

[680] It was a very empowering thing, really, because I was so shy about my body and myself and my personality.

[681] I was able to kind of blossom out of it.

[682] It kind of all snowballed into where I am now.

[683] I could never have imagined this happening from just starting off, like, working at the mall.

[684] And taking a couple of pictures, like, 50 bucks.

[685] You know what I mean?

[686] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[687] Yeah.

[688] Yeah, one little step at a time.

[689] Yeah.

[690] So, okay, when do you start acting?

[691] Obviously, Euphoria is one of your first thing.

[692] Yes, it was like my first big thing.

[693] I did a couple of guest spots.

[694] But how did you even get there?

[695] How do you go from modeling to do you get an agent?

[696] Yeah, so when I was a model, even then, people noticed my personality.

[697] So I did mostly video stuff, right?

[698] So I did like a Vice Broadly series.

[699] You were doing a hosting thing on Vice.

[700] I was like maybe four or five years.

[701] And to me, models, I was probably like 21.

[702] I was like, okay, I really take this seriously and just start going on auditions in New York.

[703] I started working with Jesse, who's still my agent, and she's just incredible, and she was sending me on things.

[704] I did the vice show.

[705] It just felt like really liberating to be outside.

[706] Well, it's all encouraging.

[707] You're like, oh, I have my foot in the door.

[708] I'm getting a paycheck.

[709] Yeah, I'm doing it.

[710] I'm like speaking to camera.

[711] Yeah.

[712] Were you supporting yourself from that?

[713] Yeah.

[714] Curve modeling, all the girls I know make so much money because it's the commercial stuff.

[715] You know, it's not necessarily the most glamorous type of modeling, but it is lucreasing.

[716] First of all, I was blowing all my money, obviously.

[717] What were you spending on?

[718] Were you partying?

[719] Yeah, weed, alcohol.

[720] What else was?

[721] Uber.

[722] That's not where, like, taxis, paying for everything for my friends.

[723] I was just being so dumb.

[724] I feel clumsy saying this, but I read on Wikipedia, you identify as queer.

[725] You have a girlfriend.

[726] Yeah.

[727] At the time, I was just kind of dating around.

[728] No gender specific.

[729] Now I'm definitely gay.

[730] But at the time I was exploring it all, you know?

[731] Yeah, yeah.

[732] Being very hectic, I'm sure.

[733] I have a really generic question, but it's right there on the table for me to ask.

[734] But did you find yourself attracted like way too old men?

[735] No. Actually, I was really attracted to really feminine men.

[736] Too young men.

[737] My age, feminine.

[738] Very feminine.

[739] Also, at the time, I was not dating.

[740] I didn't have a relationship until I was 22.

[741] And that's my ex who we did break up.

[742] Okay, so if I were having this total blossoming and I'm self -supporting and I have recreational money and I'm out partying, are you feeling like, oh, I don't have that other thing?

[743] I'm supposed to have like a busy romantic life.

[744] The fantasy of that New York life involves that.

[745] And were you pining for that or was it not on your radar?

[746] I was in a space emotionally.

[747] I think about this a lot because I'm so different now, because obviously I'm older and I've done a lot of therapy and a lot of work on it.

[748] But I think I just had so much abandonment issues that it was just never working out and people would take advantage of me and there would be really not great people that I would choose looking back I'm like oh my god what were you doing like you were just walking into like the lines that this is like bad bad news and part of me liked it danger you know what I mean a little danger a little bad boy at the time but it never lasted I was chaotic I was all over the place and when I moved out of New York and out of that I spent a lot of time understanding what my problems were well you have a fresh start and you don't want to repeat everything, right?

[749] You do that big move.

[750] You're like, okay, chance to be to me I want to be.

[751] So what was I not doing?

[752] It's a good evaluation time.

[753] It's like what I wanted to keep in New York.

[754] I was starting a new career.

[755] I was like fresh.

[756] I got Euphoria.

[757] We were doing the rest of the season because we did the pilot in L .A. Then I went back to New York.

[758] So you got cast in New York.

[759] Yeah.

[760] What was that process like?

[761] Start with reading the script.

[762] Did you get to read the script first?

[763] Well, no, I got I got set just the sides.

[764] Okay.

[765] And I just remember reading it and being like, oh my God.

[766] I've had read a lot of things.

[767] At the time, they were really kind of stereotypical casting where it was like, oh, big girl, this was the first time that I've read something that just felt real and felt like an actual voice of how people talk.

[768] The big girl doesn't get her own storyline normally.

[769] She is a device.

[770] The best friend.

[771] Yes, who has the problem we're all expecting.

[772] Yeah.

[773] And it's there for the lead to comfort her.

[774] Yeah.

[775] Or give her some guidance.

[776] Yeah.

[777] Before Euphoria, the kind of auditions I got, they were honestly borderline offensive.

[778] Yeah, sure.

[779] But I did it because I was like, am I going to do, you know?

[780] And it was offensive.

[781] Taj Mahal.

[782] Anyone that's not white, classically pretty, skinny, all of those things.

[783] If you're not that, you're going to run up against some offensive stuff in those rooms.

[784] I don't even see the worst of it, but sometimes something creeps in.

[785] I'm like, oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[786] Well, also, it's tricky when you're starting out.

[787] And, yeah, you're just getting sides.

[788] And then you might even get sides that are fine.

[789] And then you might get something.

[790] And then you might see the whole script.

[791] me like, wow, they're going there.

[792] Especially if I feel like a new actor.

[793] I guess I got to take it.

[794] Like, you know, it's rare.

[795] So if I get it, I got to do it.

[796] So when I read these sides, I was like, this is like something I know I can do.

[797] And it was just a huge audition process.

[798] Literally on the subway, there'd be flyers for like an A24 project casting.

[799] Yeah, like a trans girl, ages, whatever, a bigger girl, ages, whatever.

[800] Everyone I know audition for you for it.

[801] Like models, influence every single person.

[802] Where did Jules come from?

[803] Was she a working actor before?

[804] Hunter?

[805] She was a model, too.

[806] Oh, she was a model as well.

[807] Yeah, she was.

[808] We became best friends during that whole process because we both were in New York.

[809] We went through the whole audition process pretty much together.

[810] Wow.

[811] And is she dating that dreamy boy that was the love.

[812] Yeah, I think so.

[813] Oh, my God.

[814] We were so in love with him, remember?

[815] Yeah, Dom is great.

[816] They're so cute.

[817] Oh, my God.

[818] That guy is a hard step.

[819] I didn't know they were together.

[820] That's what I heard.

[821] I know so little gossip, but that's one I happened to know.

[822] The little gossip you get.

[823] I think of him.

[824] hadn't acted, I don't think.

[825] No, he's a musician.

[826] Yeah, he's fucking so natural.

[827] The casting on that show is so impeccable.

[828] It's off the charts.

[829] Jennifer Van Diddy, who did a lot of it.

[830] The casting director?

[831] Yeah, she's amazing.

[832] She like street cast people.

[833] And she's casted like Angus and so many people that were just so perfect.

[834] Is Angus the drug dealer?

[835] Yes.

[836] Impossible.

[837] Like how they found him?

[838] Angus.

[839] He's amazing.

[840] He's the dude, right?

[841] I've seen him in interviews.

[842] I'm like, oh, he's the dude.

[843] Oh, no, he's absolutely that.

[844] Yeah, he's the dude.

[845] Yeah, he's absolutely that for sure.

[846] It delighted me. I happened to know someone high up at HBO when we were talking about some of the contract stuff and I was like, the notion that that dude is fucking now crushing per episode.

[847] He couldn't delight me more.

[848] He's just straight himself.

[849] He's perfect.

[850] Okay, so presumably millions of people showed up.

[851] So when you get there, are you thinking like, well, fuck?

[852] I had this half confidence and half just so scary.

[853] I mean, the call that I got the role, I was in my therapist office.

[854] And I was literally like, I have to answer this.

[855] And then I got it.

[856] And I just like fucking cried.

[857] I went outside and I was like, screaming on the street of New York.

[858] Did you have to go to multiple callbacks?

[859] Yes.

[860] And I went to one in L .A. Oh, they flew you out.

[861] And they fly you first class?

[862] Did they?

[863] Probably, yeah.

[864] Yeah, yeah, they must have.

[865] So it was like, that was new.

[866] And did they put you in a nice hotel?

[867] They did in Santa Monica.

[868] You feel like you were with your grandma?

[869] Yeah, I was like, Grandma, look.

[870] This is the nicest place.

[871] And it was being Hunter.

[872] She got the call that she got the role there.

[873] And I waited a couple weeks.

[874] I did the most auditions out of anyone.

[875] And I think they were a little bit unsure about me because I was a model and the character herself isn't supposed to be confident at all.

[876] I cut my hair.

[877] I did everything I could and it worked.

[878] It was amazing.

[879] It was the best year ever.

[880] And we stayed at the standard West Hollywood for the pilot, all of us.

[881] Oh, rest in peace.

[882] It was like the funniest thing.

[883] The pool was like green.

[884] It was eye crying with my cat.

[885] Like, it was amazing.

[886] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[887] What's up guys?

[888] It's your girl Kiki.

[889] And my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[890] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[891] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[892] And I don't mean just friends.

[893] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[894] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[895] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[896] We've all been there.

[897] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating.

[898] body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[899] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[900] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[901] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[902] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[903] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[904] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[905] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[906] So what you need to know, background, we love that show.

[907] Yeah.

[908] It's the most impressive show.

[909] For so many reasons, starting with what you're saying, the fact that there's so many, quote, real people on.

[910] There's so many different and new and original people on it.

[911] But it doesn't feel acted at all.

[912] No. And then visually, the cinematography is so next level.

[913] That opening scene of season two where they go into that party and they're everywhere in that house and everywhere they point the camera, it looks fucking beautiful.

[914] I'm like, this is impossible.

[915] I must have taken them nine hours to like this.

[916] We shoot an episode like a month and a half.

[917] Is that really?

[918] Yeah, like a month and a half, yeah.

[919] Per episode.

[920] Yeah.

[921] Oh my God.

[922] You know, we had six.

[923] days to shoot an hour, parenthood.

[924] That's normal.

[925] That was even, yeah, it was one lesson you normally get, oh my God, that makes more sense.

[926] Yeah, you get what you pay for as it turns out.

[927] Time is the great.

[928] Deliberately detailed whole thing.

[929] Yeah.

[930] Now, for it being your first thing, I can't imagine you necessarily knew what you were stepping into.

[931] No, but the best part is no one really did.

[932] Right.

[933] Even people who were acting before, I think the content of it was very new.

[934] So we all were stepping into something that we had no idea how to do.

[935] It was kind of like an acting boot camp.

[936] It was like a vulnerability boot camp.

[937] It was everything all that wants.

[938] And we all had to be really close.

[939] It was a really safe space to play as an actor.

[940] Also, like the characters are so close to us.

[941] Our lives are part of the script.

[942] And it always has been.

[943] Yeah, did they like talk to you about your let and then like incorporate?

[944] It feels like that.

[945] It feels like, oh, there's pieces of these people in there.

[946] And it was so hard to step into a lot of it.

[947] Everyone is on the same But regardless we've been acting since you were a kid.

[948] But Zendaya, she's stepping into it and she knows she's with Ringling Brothers now.

[949] She knows enough to look around and go like, they're spending a fortune on this.

[950] We have way more time than we should.

[951] For her, it has to be clicking a little more than I imagine some of the newer actors.

[952] Like, you'll never do anything that'll be like that again, basically.

[953] And that was your first thing.

[954] So I guess I'm just curious what the pros and cons of that are.

[955] Even with her.

[956] Did I say her name right, by the way, now?

[957] Zendaya.

[958] It's Zendaya.

[959] I did not.

[960] I did not.

[961] The fans can't come for you.

[962] They will.

[963] That's not the fight I want to pick.

[964] I had a hunch.

[965] I didn't get it.

[966] Queen Zee.

[967] Okay, so even Zendaya.

[968] I feel like we were all nervous with the subject matter because we hadn't seen anything like that.

[969] Yeah.

[970] Because we wanted to do it right.

[971] And of course, I had no idea any aspects of this.

[972] You're learning a lot on that show.

[973] You're learning about blocking and cameras and lighting.

[974] Yeah, definitely learning about cameras.

[975] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[976] The camera is a character of its own.

[977] It was super interesting to watch and just like the scale of it all was just so big.

[978] And we had no idea what was going to happen.

[979] Who directed the pilot?

[980] Augustine Frizzell.

[981] That makes me happy.

[982] So it was a woman.

[983] It was a woman who directed the pilot.

[984] Was there a rehearsal period?

[985] No. We're encouraged to not take any acting clap.

[986] Nothing, nothing, nothing.

[987] No, like, no, get together work on any scenes before you shoot anything.

[988] Oh, wow.

[989] None of that.

[990] And that obviously was a strategic decision.

[991] Yeah.

[992] I think it works in that way because it is so real and it's so personal.

[993] And as soon as I found Kat as a character, it was just like super second nature to me. There's so many things that are interesting about TV versus film, which is, A, exactly what Monica just said.

[994] In a film, they can't write to you.

[995] They write it.

[996] That's that.

[997] You go and you shoot it.

[998] But when you're on a TV show, the writers start incorporating you and the characters get more and more compelling because they are incorporating that.

[999] That's interesting.

[1000] Also, you just get more and more and more comfortable.

[1001] playing it, which is unique.

[1002] You rarely watch a movie where the actor's kind of shitty in the first scene and then they're really in the last scene, but that happens on TV all the time.

[1003] Oh, absolutely.

[1004] You watch like Friday Night Lights and it's like the level of skill that accumulated over five seasons is dramatic.

[1005] It's like the best acting classes ever.

[1006] I feel like it's just having to do it for almost a year.

[1007] I mean, it was like nine months to shoot the first season.

[1008] And we thought it was going to be shorter.

[1009] So it just kept extending.

[1010] And it was like from five to nine months.

[1011] It was a long time.

[1012] And season two is the same way.

[1013] You know, now they knew what kind of time they needed, but it was a lot of trying out things, season one.

[1014] Yeah.

[1015] It was so fun.

[1016] Okay, so it comes out.

[1017] This has to be an insane experience.

[1018] It had to blow away your expectations.

[1019] Yes.

[1020] You know, I think with streaming and everything, it almost feels like it just gets bigger.

[1021] It keeps kind of snowballing to its own thing.

[1022] I forget the number, but season two had some record shattering.

[1023] It broke all these records.

[1024] Yeah.

[1025] It's like only Game of Thrones in Euphoria.

[1026] It's like 20 plus million people or something.

[1027] Something like that.

[1028] And it felt like that too.

[1029] It felt like that.

[1030] It's interesting.

[1031] Season one, when it first came out, it was like a slow buildup.

[1032] I went through my ups and my downs, my ups and my downs.

[1033] Walk through there.

[1034] Yeah, yeah.

[1035] Yeah, well, the up, I think as soon as it came out, I was on like, oh my God, I left my career, which was lucrative and, like, you know, it was really hard because I was just like, I don't come from money.

[1036] So like, if everything fails, this is it.

[1037] But I had such faith in it.

[1038] And I knew it was so special, so unique.

[1039] As I was watching it, it was just.

[1040] in awe.

[1041] We're thrown into the press world and the red carpets.

[1042] Then, you know, the memes are made of me and my haircut and like, you know, they're glassing.

[1043] Now, but to me, no, it's funny.

[1044] All of a sudden to be famous on social media is a whole other animal.

[1045] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1046] And it was kind of a slow buildup than just overnight.

[1047] Once the season had fully come out, then it got.

[1048] That's how I watched it.

[1049] Like, I didn't watch it as it was being revealed week to week.

[1050] Enough people told me it was good that I sat down and watched the whole thing in three weeks or whatever.

[1051] Yeah, it was amazing.

[1052] So blown away.

[1053] Okay, so you liked it.

[1054] Yeah, there's the high of it.

[1055] I was like, baby, this is what I was born to do, you know?

[1056] I was doing my little one -man's show.

[1057] I was like, razzle -dazzle.

[1058] And then reality starts sinking.

[1059] And it just kind of like, you know, then I have my lows where I'm, I felt really alone.

[1060] And I felt like I wasn't doing a good job.

[1061] And negativity was kind of consuming me. And a lot of like imposter syndrome.

[1062] And then the pandemic hit.

[1063] And then it's like, I felt really bad.

[1064] When you would read criticism, Were people conflating you with the character?

[1065] Like, was it people actually mad at something the character did?

[1066] Yeah, actually, I obviously have learned my lesson to never read anything.

[1067] Yeah, you know.

[1068] So losing proposition.

[1069] If it's good or bad, whatever it is, it's not good.

[1070] But I think, of course, at first you're like so slept up.

[1071] There's no way.

[1072] You're slept up in it.

[1073] First year, I was on TV, I had a Google alert on myself.

[1074] And I read about myself every two seconds.

[1075] And I was like, oh, I'm going to kill myself.

[1076] It literally consumes your mind.

[1077] I was in such a dark place.

[1078] And yeah, people do conflate me with my character.

[1079] a lot.

[1080] For me, it's like I love that character so much that it's almost like I, I think a part of all of us in the cast kind of do conflate.

[1081] This is the inherent issue also on a TV show, which I've experienced.

[1082] I've watched other people go through it.

[1083] You fall in love with your character and you get very protective of your character.

[1084] And then when they do the things that they have to do on a television show to keep providing story, you can't help but go like, well, no, that violates what we established about Crosby.

[1085] Like, Crosby wouldn't do this.

[1086] That's what I was always saying.

[1087] Like, well, hold on.

[1088] Then that means everything we learned over the last three years, we just totally negated.

[1089] And I do think it gets harder for the showrunners as the actors have more attachment to the characters and they have more leverage that it becomes more and more of a battle between the actors and the showrunners.

[1090] Yeah.

[1091] I feel bad for both people.

[1092] Going into a season two after like two and a half years of not doing it.

[1093] It was a very interesting experience.

[1094] It was a long break.

[1095] Why was it such a long break?

[1096] Pandemic.

[1097] And did that lead to its own insecurities?

[1098] Like, oh, this is all going to go away.

[1099] It's never going to come back.

[1100] Yeah, I think it totally did.

[1101] I'm like a perfectionist and I'm learning to not be so hard of myself, but I'm so hard of myself.

[1102] And I want everything to be right and I want to do a good job and I want people to like me and all these things that really don't matter in the long term, like if you like yourself, those kinds of things I was really dealing with and not working and being with myself for the first time and processing it.

[1103] Yeah.

[1104] Once you open your eyes to all the external stuff, you're trading the amount of time that you could possibly be internal.

[1105] It's an equation.

[1106] Once you've opened yourself up to all this external validation approval, that's less time you're working on giving it to yourself.

[1107] And the thing's just kind of eroding from the inside.

[1108] It was like such a big spiral that it was almost like I wasn't even there anymore.

[1109] I was just like, oh, I'm not good enough.

[1110] I need to look like this.

[1111] I need to do this.

[1112] You get into fear of losing everything, right?

[1113] It's like it's painful.

[1114] And now all of a sudden you switch to like somehow I'm going to fuck this up and lose all this because I don't deserve it because I shouldn't be here and I'm not good enough.

[1115] That's literally was my brain.

[1116] in 24 -7.

[1117] It was like so loud.

[1118] And I finally got to a place where I don't feel that way as much.

[1119] I mean, of course it like creeps in because I'm a 26 -year -old woman in Hollywood.

[1120] Of course, there's going to be times where I'm like, oh, I'm not going to.

[1121] You know, so you're human.

[1122] I'm human.

[1123] But for me, it's like I'm in such a happy place now that it's like, oh, okay, this I can deal with.

[1124] This I can do.

[1125] And what was it?

[1126] Therapy, I think, setting boundaries within my own life.

[1127] And also just going where I feel good.

[1128] It's a lot of, like, comparing.

[1129] As you get some rhythm, you start getting invited places.

[1130] And then I would cry after.

[1131] I'm like, I'm not any of you.

[1132] I'm not Margo Robbie.

[1133] She's beautiful.

[1134] There's one moment where you feel great.

[1135] And then all that happens is they invite you to another party and you realize, oh, no, no, there's like 25 rungs above.

[1136] But that's only if you're comparing yourself to everyone else in the room.

[1137] It's like a comparison.

[1138] It almost feels like I'm just uncomfortable being here.

[1139] I never forget.

[1140] Like, I went to a Vanity Fair Oscar party.

[1141] years ago, and I literally came home crying because it was for nothing.

[1142] It was just an anxiety attack.

[1143] I was literally just like, I don't know if I belong here.

[1144] Right.

[1145] Well, it's right back to high school.

[1146] Yeah.

[1147] Especially at that party, you're liable to see Brad Pitt chatting with someone.

[1148] You're like, yeah, that guy's a movie star.

[1149] I'm a piece of shit.

[1150] Yeah.

[1151] Who am I?

[1152] Like, and even worse than that, everyone else is wondering why I'm here.

[1153] Like, everyone is looking at me like, why is that person here?

[1154] And they are not doing that.

[1155] Like, they're thinking about their own shit.

[1156] No one's doing it, but that's the fear that starts to creep in.

[1157] It took a lot of that to get me to where I am.

[1158] And now I find fun in wherever I am, even if it's a really overwhelming place that's, like, super uptight.

[1159] Like, I will find a place to troll and have fun.

[1160] Right.

[1161] Okay, so what goes down in season two?

[1162] So the pandemic hit, and it got pushed.

[1163] We were supposed to shoot, like, April of 2020.

[1164] We were, like, doing fittings.

[1165] So then I forgot when we started, but it was nine months and it was great.

[1166] You know, I had some of my things, which obviously are very public.

[1167] But it was amazing to see everyone again.

[1168] It's almost like you go back to school.

[1169] These are the people who can relate to me the most.

[1170] We all are such different personalities, which I always think of us as kind of like a girl band or something.

[1171] But it's like we all share this common project.

[1172] I think the love for it because it's just like they're the only people who can really relate to me. Exactly.

[1173] I feel stupid.

[1174] Yeah, I was just going to say, I don't think anyone knows anything.

[1175] I don't know what the public thing is.

[1176] No, I just because I feel like what was big in the public sphere was that my character got reduced to, you know, smaller part.

[1177] And I think that for me, it was interesting to watch unfold.

[1178] So for me, when people ask me about season two, it's usually they come at me with, like, I was some sort of victim to season two.

[1179] Do you know what I mean?

[1180] And I'm always like, no, it's okay.

[1181] Promise.

[1182] It's good.

[1183] But a lot of people's role, like Rue's character went on a much crazier journey in season two, and it took up a ton of real estate.

[1184] Absolutely.

[1185] Like, I'm friends with Eric Dane.

[1186] Love Eric Dane.

[1187] Okay.

[1188] So I'm even watching.

[1189] He was pretty prevalent, especially towards the end of season one.

[1190] It's like a big part of the storyline.

[1191] And then so I'm kind of watching them the next season.

[1192] I even wondering, like, are they bringing him back into this show?

[1193] And then he has a great one off thing, right?

[1194] And then I'm like, oh, he's back.

[1195] But like, I think everyone's ebbing and flowing.

[1196] I don't think it was unique to you, but maybe I'm wrong.

[1197] I think it was just, there's a lot of people in the cast.

[1198] There's a lot of us.

[1199] It's a teen show.

[1200] People love dramas.

[1201] You know, I kind of got sucked into this.

[1202] drama that I never asked to be in and I've never talked about because I'm of the mindset of like if it doesn't exist I'm not going to address it because then I'm just adding fuel to it but it kind of has taken the life of its own not even just on the internet because you know I'm not I'm not trying to look at that but it's like people in person I'm like no trust me it's not that like don't believe everything you read which also when you're not in this industry and you like read all these things you you always like even though people tell you not to believe everything you read you kind of do and now I'm absolutely sure I'm like I will not believe anything I read for the rest of my life.

[1203] Exactly.

[1204] When I first started doing interviews and I would read them afterwards and they would get my age wrong.

[1205] They get where I was from wrong.

[1206] It really made me reconsider everything I've read.

[1207] Well, shit, if there was 10 % of this thing was wrong about me, it's very simple to translate.

[1208] I have to imagine 10 % of everything I read is wrong.

[1209] But the only thing I know, and by the way, I only know it because I research you today.

[1210] The only thing I know is that you're not on the show anymore.

[1211] Yeah.

[1212] And that maybe you walked off set one day.

[1213] I actually did not walk off set.

[1214] Okay.

[1215] I can imagine that being overblown.

[1216] And also, like, what does that mean walking off set?

[1217] You left for the day?

[1218] I just sprayed my ankle once and had to go get an x -ray.

[1219] Maybe that's what they mean.

[1220] Especially on ensembles.

[1221] They were always kind of wanting this to happen on friends.

[1222] But like Desperate Housewives, there was a cottage industry reporting on whether the people liked each other or not.

[1223] Like, it becomes its own.

[1224] Especially when it's a teen show, like a high.

[1225] I think it's like.

[1226] There's some patriarchy.

[1227] And the stereotype women can't get along and share the spotlight.

[1228] Everyone's looking for it.

[1229] Yeah, that was on Friends.

[1230] They were try to do that with like Jennifer Anderson's getting all the juicy stuff.

[1231] Courtney Cox is feeling threatened because she's older.

[1232] You know, like they try to insert all these tropes.

[1233] It's so weird.

[1234] And this is all, by the way, the first time I've ever experienced anything like this with me being the subject of it.

[1235] So it's been a very big learning curve.

[1236] When it's something that I've never said, I don't know what indicated that would have happened.

[1237] You know, this is all, like, kind of gossip and lore.

[1238] I understand why.

[1239] I mean, it's interesting as a fan of a show to be like, oh, these things, but it's really...

[1240] It's not like you did an interview and then people were like, oh, shit.

[1241] This is all, like, out of thin air.

[1242] I think people are skeptical because it is a show about young women written by one singular man. That is, like, the critique that it is.

[1243] But it's like, it's also taken out on, like, the girls themselves.

[1244] And I'm like, that is not really, like, our, like, you know...

[1245] Yeah, cross to bear.

[1246] And it's these real articles will say things like, allegedly, Bar.

[1247] did that.

[1248] I'm like, allegedly, I did not.

[1249] Okay?

[1250] I did not do that.

[1251] And to me, like, as a young actor who's, this is my first big job, I'm like, I don't want people to think I do that kind of because I don't.

[1252] So to me, it was like a lot of proscenate.

[1253] Like, there's nothing I can do about what people are going to say about me. They could say anything, right?

[1254] So to me that was kind of the biggest problem with it is that I've been working since I was 16 as a model.

[1255] Like, I've been on sets.

[1256] I show up.

[1257] I've tried to be silly and goofy and fun.

[1258] I try to make everyone love me, whether they like me or not.

[1259] You know, it's like I pride myself on that.

[1260] And that's what has gotten me here.

[1261] When you have this show that kind of like takes up its own whole world, and it's not just fans.

[1262] Like if this was just fan gossip, that's different.

[1263] When it's big articles, it was really rough for me. I didn't want to address it because it was almost like, you know, if someone accuses you or something, I'm like, and you go on, like, I didn't do that.

[1264] People are going to start thinking that you did it because they didn't even know about it before.

[1265] There's really no winning when you were accused of something.

[1266] Yeah.

[1267] And to me, I mean, it's like, it's silly.

[1268] Your silence is an admission of guilt.

[1269] It's like when you bring a lawyer, when you bring a lawyer to the room.

[1270] Yes, yes, you're guilty.

[1271] It's a big learning.

[1272] experience and I'm just really excited that I get to act.

[1273] Did you want to leave the show or would you have preferred to stay?

[1274] I think it was a mutual decision.

[1275] I think my character who I love so dearly, I don't think there was a place for her to go.

[1276] She had run her course story -wise.

[1277] Yeah, I mean, I think that there were places she could go.

[1278] I just don't think it would have fit into this show.

[1279] I don't know if it was going to do her justice.

[1280] And I think both parties knew that.

[1281] I really wanted to be able to not be the fat best friend, you know?

[1282] I don't want to play that and I think they didn't want that either.

[1283] So I would have played her for as long as I was asked to depending on what the material was.

[1284] And I just think that it...

[1285] I mean, let's be serious.

[1286] You can hang on the background for the right amount of money.

[1287] Oh, I don't know.

[1288] No, no, no, no. Yeah, for me, it was never about the money.

[1289] I mean, I took a pay cut from modeling to acting, big one.

[1290] And it was so exciting.

[1291] And I would take it a thousand million times.

[1292] So it sounds like maybe, I don't know, you guys set each other free.

[1293] Like, look, this is where this show has gone.

[1294] It's not going to have a big arc for you.

[1295] Yeah.

[1296] And you deserve to go act and have a big arc. If this is a two -month gig, you know what I mean?

[1297] Yes, yes, yes.

[1298] This takes up a lot.

[1299] We can't really do anything else.

[1300] It actually has been really freeing for both of us, I believe.

[1301] And it obviously hurts because I love Kat and she was so important to me. And I think to a lot of people with all her good and bad, mostly bad, which I love.

[1302] And it was like a character I've never seen on TV before.

[1303] And I don't know if we'll ever get something like that in that specific way that was so edgy and like you were so great thank you oh my god you're so great that's a ballsy role so vulnerable i mean thank you yeah incredibly vulnerable and beautiful and it was so well done you were thank you yeah i really appreciate it i love playing her that part of me will always be there yeah did you have that panic though like i would compare it to like dating someone who you thought was really high status but you're unhappy dating them and you want to break up with them but you weirdly are afraid who you are without their status.

[1304] I would imagine knowing you want it, you want to do more.

[1305] And then when it ends going like, oh, no, I'm no longer a part of this thing that is so high status.

[1306] 1 ,000 percent.

[1307] Yeah, that would scare the fuck out of me, to be honest.

[1308] 1 ,000 percent.

[1309] But, you know, I feel like with season two and having certain parts of it that I felt was like kind of a struggle for both parties, Sam, me, it was a struggle to find the continuation of her.

[1310] So that was actually really hurtful.

[1311] watching it and seeing the fans get upset.

[1312] I don't know.

[1313] I just felt like maybe it's like I overstayed my welcome a little bit.

[1314] So for me, it actually felt good to be like, okay, I get to not worry about this.

[1315] And we both don't get to worry about this.

[1316] It's exhausting.

[1317] Yeah.

[1318] And, you know, Sam writes for like things that he relates to.

[1319] I don't think he relates to cat.

[1320] I relate to cat.

[1321] So I could go on my own path.

[1322] And at first I was like, oh, my God, I'm a flop.

[1323] I'm a loser.

[1324] It really has been a good thing.

[1325] Yes.

[1326] You would really dishonor it.

[1327] You have to remind yourself that.

[1328] Like, you would really dishonor it.

[1329] It's a lot of conversations with myself.

[1330] Yeah, I'm like, I know that what would happen would be something that wouldn't fit into the show.

[1331] It wouldn't do her justice.

[1332] So might as well, leave on a high, do my own thing.

[1333] And cherish it as opposed to let it be a source of sadness.

[1334] It's like it's not fair to that great thing you did and the great experience.

[1335] And it exists.

[1336] And it's there.

[1337] It's real.

[1338] I don't think we give enough credit to.

[1339] people, especially in this industry for doing that because it's so easy to just like hang on for dear fucking life because everyone is so scared.

[1340] And you feel like you could get replaced at any second.

[1341] It's really brave and really hard to leave anything in this industry.

[1342] Yeah, they have the courage to say, there's a version I want to do.

[1343] And if it's not that, I guess I don't want to do it.

[1344] And it's worth.

[1345] Yeah.

[1346] For me, during season two, I was kind of like, okay, I think that it's better off if we just left it from season one.

[1347] And I wasn't really here.

[1348] Not vindictive.

[1349] No, it was just because it started and ended.

[1350] And that was the journey.

[1351] And I think like after that it was, we kind of lost where to go.

[1352] And like, obviously there's so many characters.

[1353] So there's other stories.

[1354] It's a tough situation because it's like something that I love.

[1355] It's people that I love.

[1356] I could see you taking it personal.

[1357] To me from the outside, it's just a real estate problem.

[1358] There's X amount of real estate on an episode.

[1359] And there were some storylines he clearly was on fire for.

[1360] And that's what took up the real estate.

[1361] It was just like, if this is where it's going to go.

[1362] I think it's best if we just don't.

[1363] I don't want you to appease me and just throw me a bone.

[1364] And, you know, I think I can go do my own thing and it could be different and I could feel happier.

[1365] You guys would be happy.

[1366] Everyone would be happier.

[1367] Also, like, the press and it's just like making into this drama that it's not.

[1368] You want to step out of the chaos a little bit.

[1369] I'm like, I'm like, the chaos of this is like, cool.

[1370] And like, I get to do my own thing.

[1371] And at first, it was really hard.

[1372] I'm like, okay, now what do I do?

[1373] Sure, sure, sure.

[1374] An actress's life.

[1375] And then I really honed in on what I want.

[1376] and who I want to be and what kind of actor I want to be and what kind of person I want to be and it's been like really healing from all the chaos.

[1377] You popped up, but nope, that was exciting.

[1378] I know I had a little, a little, I mean, Jordan Peel call me. He's like, do you want to be?

[1379] I'm like, oh, I do.

[1380] Yeah.

[1381] There's a pop out.

[1382] Oh, yeah.

[1383] I popped out.

[1384] I have my Cheetos.

[1385] Yeah, Jordan is absolutely incredible.

[1386] It was so cool.

[1387] I like popped in, popped out.

[1388] And then you're starting a movie in the fall.

[1389] How's spoils?

[1390] Oh, I just shot that.

[1391] Oh, you just shot it.

[1392] Oh my God.

[1393] Okay, that's Blumhouse?

[1394] Yes.

[1395] This person has quite a batting average.

[1396] Yeah.

[1397] There's something suspicious about Blumhouse.

[1398] There is?

[1399] Too much success.

[1400] It's insane.

[1401] The batting average is impossibly high.

[1402] It was so cool.

[1403] It's a thriller.

[1404] I was in Budapest.

[1405] I was like in the middle of nowhere.

[1406] Budapest is two cities, right?

[1407] Buddha and Pest.

[1408] Yes, it is.

[1409] Yes.

[1410] What side were you on?

[1411] So I start off in Buddha and then I moved to Pesh.

[1412] Oh, good for you.

[1413] What was happening in Pesh that wasn't happening in Pesh.

[1414] You know, like, people.

[1415] put like an Airbnb picture and then it looks completely different when you get there.

[1416] This just happened to our friend Molly just had this experience.

[1417] Yeah, and you're like, you get there and you're like, oh, there's no shower.

[1418] Right.

[1419] Beautiful living room, but.

[1420] Yeah, I went with my dog, cowboy.

[1421] You brought your dog to Budapest?

[1422] All the way there, yeah.

[1423] Because some countries, remember Johnny Depp gotten all kinds of trouble and so I kicked out Australia for that.

[1424] I said I don't know about gossip and look at me. I'm like a gossip.

[1425] That's like really old gossip.

[1426] Okay, that's dusty gossip.

[1427] I love it.

[1428] Okay, so, and then you went over to And when that was a vibe?

[1429] That was such a vibe.

[1430] I've heard that city's super cool, those two cities.

[1431] It's so dope.

[1432] I was there for two months.

[1433] We shot right outside of Budapest, so it was maybe like an hour away and it was like in the countryside of Hungary and it's like really scary looking house.

[1434] It was really fun.

[1435] It was spooky.

[1436] And what's happening in the city life there?

[1437] I went to museums and like had some nicer restaurants.

[1438] Yeah, a little restaurants.

[1439] You didn't get into the Euro trash.

[1440] No, unfortunately.

[1441] No, unfortunately.

[1442] That's my fantasy of Eastern Europe.

[1443] Yeah.

[1444] It's very Easter.

[1445] When I'm working, I literally just sleep all weekend.

[1446] You do.

[1447] I do.

[1448] So I'm like, go home.

[1449] I sleep.

[1450] I'll, like, pop out.

[1451] I'll go to, like, the market and, like, walk my dog around.

[1452] I saw the castles.

[1453] Okay.

[1454] So you're in it with Ariana DeBose?

[1455] Yes.

[1456] Yeah.

[1457] Did you guys become besties?

[1458] Yeah.

[1459] And Ari and Moia, too.

[1460] It's, like, fun to, like, work with, like, actors who, like, have been doing it longer than me because I get to, like, bother them for advice and stuff.

[1461] It was really cute.

[1462] Yeah.

[1463] What kind of advice did she have for you?

[1464] I'm asking just, oh, did you guys experience?

[1465] Is this normal?

[1466] But more like advocating for yourself Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1467] I think that to me is like my biggest journey as well is learning how to advocate for myself because I have a hard time doing it.

[1468] When you come from very little, you feel lucky to be there.

[1469] You don't want to rock the bow.

[1470] And my mom is always like, just do it.

[1471] I don't listen to my mother's advice because if I did, I'd be in trouble.

[1472] But mom, I have to like do it in the strategic way.

[1473] She's like, strategic, it's money.

[1474] So what's next, do you know?

[1475] I'm shooting a movie that is not announced yet, but maybe perhaps it will be announced by the time it's coming out.

[1476] But I'm doing it in April, in New Orleans.

[1477] This is the age.

[1478] You go have a mini little experience and you get to learn a whole new city and you're in a little bubble and then you become best friends with everybody.

[1479] Yeah.

[1480] And you never see them again.

[1481] It breaks your heart.

[1482] And then you lose faith in humanity.

[1483] And then you see them again.

[1484] And then it's all restored.

[1485] And then the whole thing comes full circle.

[1486] So fun.

[1487] I also love being in like a place like New Orleans.

[1488] Like I shot a movie in Albuquerque.

[1489] Like I love just being somewhere for two months and just viving with everything.

[1490] By the way, learning from people.

[1491] Okay.

[1492] So that's a great example.

[1493] So my first movie was in New Zealand.

[1494] Matthew Lillard and Seth Green were in it.

[1495] They had been in 30 movies apiece at that point.

[1496] I don't know how to do anything.

[1497] I'm like, am I supposed to stay at the hotel?

[1498] No, don't stay at the hotel.

[1499] It's like you've never even been there.

[1500] Go rent a place.

[1501] This is before Airbnb.

[1502] It's like, okay, that's what I do.

[1503] Yes, rent a place and get a gym membership and work out with the people in the town.

[1504] It's like all these little things you don't know what to do.

[1505] Absolutely.

[1506] And you know what it's fun.

[1507] It's like when we're doing House of Spoils, it felt like Ariana and Arienne were like living it up.

[1508] I'm just there inside the house, like playing video games.

[1509] And they're like, what are you doing?

[1510] We're in Prague.

[1511] You're like, why aren't you coming?

[1512] And I'm like, oh, I didn't know.

[1513] Like, I could leave.

[1514] Does your girlfriend come with you on these or just visit?

[1515] Well, we broke up.

[1516] I'm so sorry.

[1517] It's okay.

[1518] It was beautiful, but we did break up.

[1519] Well, these things happen.

[1520] Yeah, it does.

[1521] And it's all good.

[1522] My first relationship.

[1523] So, I mean, it lasted three years.

[1524] That's cute.

[1525] That's really long.

[1526] Yeah, for that age.

[1527] Oh, I'm sorry.

[1528] Then that's, like, extra painful.

[1529] I feel like there's just like a new chapter of my life that I'm entering.

[1530] I feel like 20, three, there's a lot of, new things that I'm experiencing that I think is going to be really good.

[1531] Same feeling, but for a different reason.

[1532] Why?

[1533] Why are you doing?

[1534] Monica's turning 36, so 3 plus 3 is 6.

[1535] I turned 40.

[1536] 4 plus 4 is 8.

[1537] So we're, it's special.

[1538] It's really powerful.

[1539] The power?

[1540] Yeah, I know.

[1541] When you double that first integer and it equals the second energy, you stand back motherfuckers.

[1542] And then there's two of those in the same way.

[1543] It's a lot.

[1544] It's a lot.

[1545] Wasn't there another thing that was?

[1546] Cool.

[1547] about this year.

[1548] Yeah, but I forget.

[1549] Man, I'm thinking like, who am I going to?

[1550] We're going to interview Putin, I think.

[1551] For real?

[1552] No, but that's the kind of magic that might happen.

[1553] I was like, what?

[1554] Listen, I don't doubt you guys for anything.

[1555] Get him on the Zoom.

[1556] I've been so negative about him, and I challenged him to a death match on TV.

[1557] Yeah, obsessed.

[1558] I will be tuning in.

[1559] I don't doubt you guys at all.

[1560] It's going to be a short fight.

[1561] I'll try to draw it out a little bit for the fans.

[1562] You could end the war.

[1563] Oh, yeah, I could end the whole reign of oppression.

[1564] Yeah.

[1565] Oh, I would be like, you know, it'd be great.

[1566] I bet I'd be celebrated in the Ukraine.

[1567] When I'd visit, I'd bet people would offer me and me. Of course, to the glory.

[1568] You're like, hi, we'll be the leader.

[1569] Exactly.

[1570] I don't want to be the leader.

[1571] I want to be invited in for dinner everywhere.

[1572] I go when I go to Kiev.

[1573] And then a statue is erected in your honor.

[1574] I don't want a statue.

[1575] I just want to be invited in for dinner.

[1576] Are you sure?

[1577] Positive.

[1578] Maybe preferential parking while I'm there.

[1579] Oh, sure.

[1580] Yeah, that's a big perk.

[1581] Maybe like I go to a nice restaurant with friends and then I ask for the bill.

[1582] No reservation.

[1583] No res, but then I asked for the bill and they said, it's been taken care of.

[1584] Oh.

[1585] And then they say, thank you.

[1586] Okay.

[1587] That's modest.

[1588] I'm on a glory, isn't it?

[1589] Yeah.

[1590] I deserve a free meal.

[1591] I agree.

[1592] Barbie, it's been a blast getting to talk to you.

[1593] Thank you guys for having.

[1594] Yeah, you're so sweet and you have the most beautiful energy.

[1595] Thank you.

[1596] I'm really glad we got to meet you.

[1597] Thank you guys for being so incredible.

[1598] Hey, pro tip.

[1599] Don't stay downtown in New Orleans.

[1600] Stay in the garden district or stay like around Tulane.

[1601] north of the city and then you'll love it.

[1602] Oh, I love that.

[1603] Because for me, anything that's like downtown in the middle, everything is not for me. And that city, people come in to get blackout drunk.

[1604] So it's like, you know, it'll be normal.

[1605] And then all of a sudden you're like, wait, why is people throwing up in the morning at 8 a .m.?

[1606] Oh, right.

[1607] It's this thing.

[1608] As I'm going to work just covered in blood.

[1609] Yeah, but if you stay up there, all those cute little neighborhoods north of the city, they all have incredible restaurants.

[1610] It's the best food town.

[1611] But yeah, you got to get out of there and into the cute little neighborhoods.

[1612] You'll love it.

[1613] Oh.

[1614] I'm so excited.

[1615] I've never been.

[1616] So we're excited for your new you, 2023.

[1617] Thank you.

[1618] Thank you.

[1619] All right, Barbie.

[1620] Good luck with everything.

[1621] Thank you.

[1622] Delightful to meet you.

[1623] So good to meet you.

[1624] Thank you, guys.

[1625] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1626] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1627] Okay.

[1628] I already asked you.

[1629] Okay.

[1630] Because I couldn't wait.

[1631] You're going to have to tell me all over again.

[1632] What?

[1633] You're a premiere.

[1634] Oh.

[1635] Yes.

[1636] I went to the premiere.

[1637] You went to the premiere of air.

[1638] Ben and Matt's new movie.

[1639] Uh -huh.

[1640] Ben directing.

[1641] Ben directing, Ben and Matt acting.

[1642] Did they write it?

[1643] They did not write it.

[1644] No, thank you, they said.

[1645] It's so good.

[1646] It is so good.

[1647] Do you think you're an objective?

[1648] hard to know.

[1649] I don't know.

[1650] I'm going to be honest and say I don't know.

[1651] Sure, but you loved it.

[1652] I did.

[1653] And it does have 100 % on rotten tomatoes.

[1654] Oh, my gosh.

[1655] So, you know, you feel vindicated.

[1656] Well, I feel that's another piece of evidence, but I don't know.

[1657] I can't trust myself there, especially if I'm seeing it in the room with them.

[1658] Like, come on.

[1659] Yeah, you got a lot of things going on.

[1660] There's a lot of chemicals.

[1661] Almost cried multiple times.

[1662] Oh, my gosh.

[1663] Okay, whoa.

[1664] From the story or just your pride in how far they've come.

[1665] Both.

[1666] My little boys.

[1667] Yeah, your little boys watch them just since they were little teenagers and other 50 -year -old men.

[1668] I did hear independently from someone else who saw that said the performances were spectacular.

[1669] Yes.

[1670] Go ahead and tell the thing that almost had you slide down to your seat right at the beginning where the film started.

[1671] So I brought Molly, our friend Molly, who also loved Goodwill hunting when she was younger.

[1672] So I had to bring her.

[1673] There was no other option.

[1674] We walked by the carpet in order to go to Will Call.

[1675] Uh -huh.

[1676] And we saw them on the carpet, which is exciting.

[1677] And we even said, I said, I was just here.

[1678] I was just here two weeks ago for Ryan's premiere, same place.

[1679] Yeah.

[1680] It's different.

[1681] You snap back into the fantasy.

[1682] I could get there so fast, which was really so weird.

[1683] I was really happy.

[1684] Yes, you don't want that stolen from you.

[1685] I don't want that.

[1686] I don't to ever go away.

[1687] Yeah.

[1688] And I think I told you I experienced that while I was watching the Paul Newman documentary.

[1689] It's like I'm watching the Paul Newman documentary.

[1690] I'm realizing I do think he's a different person.

[1691] Like I think he lived on another plane.

[1692] It's so much more than them.

[1693] It is them.

[1694] I love them.

[1695] But it's not.

[1696] They are representative of my dreams.

[1697] Yeah, they're the personification of your dreams.

[1698] Yeah.

[1699] Yes.

[1700] And my attachment to them so linked to everything I wanted to be and become.

[1701] Yeah.

[1702] I know that, right?

[1703] Like, it's not.

[1704] You're in on the joke, but you can also experience it, which is the dream, really.

[1705] Yes.

[1706] You can click back and forth.

[1707] And I'm happy I can because I would be so sad.

[1708] Like, I think I would be really sad if I was disillusioned there.

[1709] You know, I have that with, and I've told you about it.

[1710] I have that with Brad Pitt.

[1711] There's like a dude I've hung out with.

[1712] Yeah.

[1713] And there's a dude I see in movies, and there's space for both.

[1714] Yeah.

[1715] And the guy in movies is still the guy in movies, and he's a completely different entity than the dude at the track.

[1716] Yeah.

[1717] We know we were walking by and I saw them on the carpet.

[1718] And it's audible.

[1719] It's like, oh my God, there they are.

[1720] Uh -huh.

[1721] And also muscle memory.

[1722] Yes.

[1723] Anyway.

[1724] So we go, we sit, we're like watching the doors for when they come in.

[1725] Somehow we miss that completely.

[1726] I don't know how that happened.

[1727] And then at the front, ding, ding, ding.

[1728] Guess who introduced the movie before Ben?

[1729] Jen Salky.

[1730] Oh, wow.

[1731] Because it's Amazon.

[1732] Oh, my God.

[1733] We're going to have the interviewer now.

[1734] Literally just talking about her.

[1735] But yeah, so she brought up Ben.

[1736] And he's so tall.

[1737] And handsome.

[1738] And handsome.

[1739] I've said this before about him.

[1740] I'll just remind everyone.

[1741] I find him to be 60.

[1742] two times more magnetic.

[1743] Yeah.

[1744] In real life.

[1745] Yeah.

[1746] He's a person who really in real life is very sparkly.

[1747] So he was introducing the movie and, you know, giving his thanks and thanking all the people involved.

[1748] Very well spoken, right?

[1749] Yeah.

[1750] Very intelligent.

[1751] And he gets to the part where he's thanking Matt and he got choked up.

[1752] He was crying.

[1753] And I could not.

[1754] Like, what is?

[1755] This.

[1756] What is this life?

[1757] I dreamed this in my bedroom.

[1758] Yeah.

[1759] And now you're front and center.

[1760] And he's crying.

[1761] You made it to the perfect.

[1762] Yeah.

[1763] That piece of it is not real.

[1764] Like, how's it real?

[1765] You timed it perfectly.

[1766] You waited until he was ready to cry publicly about his love for Matt.

[1767] And you were there for it.

[1768] It was quick and it was so, so sweet.

[1769] You know, and of course, then I like immediately looking at Matt to see what's happening.

[1770] Is he crying?

[1771] Oh, sure.

[1772] Is everyone crying?

[1773] Yeah.

[1774] Does he need attention?

[1775] He was eating popcorn, which I loved.

[1776] He's just a regular old guy.

[1777] We had had the popcorn.

[1778] Uh -huh.

[1779] And it tasted like the box, so we didn't like it.

[1780] Yeah.

[1781] And then we saw, oh, he's eating it.

[1782] Wow, he's eating that.

[1783] He must be so, he must be so hungry because he's eating that bad popcorn.

[1784] Anyway, so he cried.

[1785] That was too much for me. And then he thanked his wife, who looked beautiful.

[1786] J -Lo.

[1787] Yes.

[1788] Okay.

[1789] And she was stunning.

[1790] She's like a, she's a specimen.

[1791] I mean, obviously everyone knows this, but like, yeah.

[1792] And the movie starts sucked in.

[1793] It's so good.

[1794] I almost cry a few times because the story.

[1795] I mean, the Jordan story.

[1796] Like, it's so beautiful.

[1797] There's some really good speeches.

[1798] The acting's so good.

[1799] Bateman's in it.

[1800] Did you know that?

[1801] He's like a huge character.

[1802] I think I might have saw him in a trailer, but of course he is.

[1803] plays a huge character.

[1804] You can get Bateman, you get them.

[1805] Also, Viola Davis, I don't understand where she comes from.

[1806] Like, how is she that good in everything?

[1807] And she says like two words, and you're so moved.

[1808] Uh -huh.

[1809] She has that thing.

[1810] She has that thing.

[1811] I guess Michael Jordan said, if you're going to do this, you have to cast Viola as my mom.

[1812] Yep, yep, yeah.

[1813] I read that or read an interview with Ben.

[1814] who was saying that that was the piece.

[1815] And he, I remember, because I think her role wasn't nearly as big at that point.

[1816] Oh.

[1817] And so he's like, I've got to now go offer Viola Davis, there's nothing role.

[1818] She's never going to take it.

[1819] Right.

[1820] So I got to beef it up.

[1821] But then I think he said his only hope was that it would be so flattering that Michael Jordan wanted her.

[1822] And that was powerful for her.

[1823] Yeah.

[1824] But me and you are.

[1825] such suckers for this.

[1826] We love this story.

[1827] We love literally this story.

[1828] We love the last dance.

[1829] The best.

[1830] God, the best.

[1831] But also.

[1832] Time to rewatch it, by the way.

[1833] I know.

[1834] I would love to.

[1835] On the big screen.

[1836] But yes, that part, of course, is just so moving.

[1837] But also, this is American fucking story.

[1838] Like, it's so dreamy.

[1839] Anyway, I loved it after we went to the party.

[1840] And the party was right there.

[1841] Lucky, didn't have to drive anywhere.

[1842] Oh, okay.

[1843] It was, what do you mean right there?

[1844] Literally, like, they must have built, like, it's right there.

[1845] Tense.

[1846] Must have built huge tents.

[1847] Yes, great.

[1848] So Molly and I get in there.

[1849] We're doing some laps.

[1850] This can be anxiety inducing.

[1851] I hate, look.

[1852] This is an after party.

[1853] Yes, I hate this.

[1854] Yeah, yeah, yep, yep.

[1855] In general, I hate this.

[1856] Yeah, yeah.

[1857] But you're there as a fan tonight.

[1858] Even as, mainly as a fan, I hate this.

[1859] But there are specifics involved that are just going to override any of my usual feelings.

[1860] That's right.

[1861] You're answering to a higher calling at this point.

[1862] Yes.

[1863] And Molly had said, if you see him, are you going to talk to him?

[1864] And I said, no. And she was like, well, he definitely remembers you.

[1865] And I said, no, he doesn't.

[1866] You have to remember how many people he meets.

[1867] Or one of 80 shows he did that year.

[1868] Yes.

[1869] And she said, well, it what?

[1870] And like came up to somebody's attic.

[1871] and like did i was like well i no but okay she was really trying to boost my ego yeah she could like that yeah she is so we're doing some laps we had a drink we're doing some laps are you kind of giggling too because it's like you feel silly doing love we're children and then i do have moments where i'm getting snapped back into reality like your friend ravi oh yeah ravi metta yes yeah he's your friend from chips yep he was the um part of physical production and a producer on the movie and a good friend of mine.

[1872] Yes.

[1873] And he was there and he's now the president of production at 20th century.

[1874] Huge.

[1875] He's a gangster.

[1876] Yeah.

[1877] And he's an Indian boy.

[1878] He is.

[1879] He is.

[1880] From the valley.

[1881] Yeah, I love it.

[1882] And he stopped me. You know, it took me a sec. Yeah, it's been seven years since you would have seen him on set.

[1883] Yes.

[1884] But more than that, I'm not in that headspace.

[1885] I'm not in the headspace of I'm there because somebody might know me. No, you're a fan.

[1886] Yeah.

[1887] Yeah, that's right.

[1888] I'm just like a little person at this party.

[1889] But you were in a movie he produced.

[1890] Yeah, and he knows, obviously, he knows us because he knows you.

[1891] He knows me because he knows you.

[1892] And his wife's an arm cherry.

[1893] Huge arm cherry.

[1894] Yes.

[1895] And so anyway, so then I'm like snapped into like, oh, I'm me now.

[1896] Right, right.

[1897] Okay, let's do this for a second.

[1898] Yep.

[1899] Then I get back out.

[1900] I'm like two steps away from him and I'm back into fandom.

[1901] Yeah, 13.

[1902] And we're looking and, and then, yeah.

[1903] You know, I see him.

[1904] I see Matt.

[1905] I see Matt.

[1906] There's so many people around him.

[1907] Sure.

[1908] Everyone's clamoring for a little taste.

[1909] And I was like, and she was like, okay, you got to go.

[1910] And I was like, no, look how many people there are.

[1911] I don't want to bother him.

[1912] And he, of course, is taking the time for everyone.

[1913] He's being so nice.

[1914] Gracious.

[1915] And he's a good boy.

[1916] He's a good boy.

[1917] He's a really good boy.

[1918] He's a really good boy.

[1919] And I, you know, I want to give you some credit here.

[1920] I thought, oh, this would be so annoying for him.

[1921] I'm, like, I'm feeling a little defensive on his part.

[1922] Like, all these people, all these people are bothering him.

[1923] I got to protect him.

[1924] Yeah.

[1925] Get him more popcorn.

[1926] I got to get in there.

[1927] He's so hungry.

[1928] I mean, I know how hungry is.

[1929] He can't even eat.

[1930] Yeah.

[1931] He's a hungry good boy.

[1932] But I thought, oh, Dax would do this too.

[1933] He would talk to everyone.

[1934] He would make everyone feel really special.

[1935] And that's really nice.

[1936] It's a nice thing to do.

[1937] And then I thought, oh, these nice boys.

[1938] There's so many nice boys.

[1939] Then I saw another.

[1940] nice boy.

[1941] Oh, the nicest boy.

[1942] Captain nice boy.

[1943] Kimmel.

[1944] Jimmy Kimmel, James Kimmel.

[1945] Actually, Dave Jr. now.

[1946] I don't know if you know this, but when he interviewed Letterman on his show week before we did, because he had hosted the Academy Awards and everything else, Letterman said, I'm going to start calling you Dave Jr. Oh my God.

[1947] And he was like, I'm glad.

[1948] He can die now.

[1949] Yes.

[1950] Yes.

[1951] Dave Jr. Yes.

[1952] I note about that.

[1953] So I text him like, hey, since you're, Dave Jr. I'd love to take over Jimmy now.

[1954] You've taken the name so far.

[1955] I want to crack at it.

[1956] And then ding, ding, ding, he said, who are we given Dax to?

[1957] Yeah, me. And I said, Dax Damon has a real ring to it, doesn't it?

[1958] I'd like to see what that talented son of a bitch could do with the name.

[1959] Oh, shit.

[1960] Dax Damon.

[1961] No, you're the only Dax in town.

[1962] Okay.

[1963] But, okay, so.

[1964] Beautiful Jimmy Kettle.

[1965] I'm looking at Matt, seeing he's getting harassed.

[1966] And Molly's like, oh, or he's talking to Jimmy Kimmel.

[1967] And I was like, oh, immediately, and I told you this already, immediately I was like, oh, Jimmy, yay, Jimmy's here.

[1968] Run up to him without even thinking.

[1969] Yeah, your best friend's there.

[1970] My best friend is here.

[1971] Yay.

[1972] And I like, you know, touch his arm, hey, we hug, we're chatting.

[1973] It wasn't until much later that I had the thought, oh my God, I would not ever feel that level of familiarity with Kimmel, unless we were in this circumstance.

[1974] this other thing's happening that there's a main attraction again overriding all my principles all my values everything some things are just more powerful than your values your instincts that's right so you know we're we're chatting and then he says are you freaking out he's like are you freaking out and I was like no I'm chill and he was like well no I know what's going on I've listened to the show Yeah.

[1975] And then I said, oh, I hate that you listen.

[1976] But also it's really flattering.

[1977] And he said, well, do you want me to like get you in there?

[1978] Yeah, yeah.

[1979] And I said, no, absolutely not.

[1980] There's so much going on.

[1981] No. And then Molly from behind me is like, yes, she must.

[1982] And then Molly McNerney, Jimmy's beautiful wife, beautiful, smart, talented wife comes up.

[1983] And I also know her, but not that well, but enough.

[1984] Enough.

[1985] Enough.

[1986] Yeah.

[1987] And so she's my best friend, too.

[1988] And so we're chatting.

[1989] She's your other old friend.

[1990] Yeah.

[1991] And I think that gave me some clout in that circle because I was chatting with the two very important people at that party.

[1992] Yeah, King and Queen of most proms.

[1993] Yes.

[1994] So we were all chatting.

[1995] And then Jimmy's like, you know, kind of trying to get, he's trying to get me in.

[1996] Yeah.

[1997] They're acting as my wing man and women.

[1998] I love it.

[1999] It was actually on my way here this morning.

[2000] We interviewed someone amazing today.

[2001] Mm -hmm.

[2002] And I'm walking and I thought, what is this life that I'm walking to work where we're going to interview blank?

[2003] Last night, I had this interaction.

[2004] You were with your old friends, Jimmy and Molly.

[2005] I was at, I had this interaction with.

[2006] The love of your life.

[2007] Yeah.

[2008] And the people who made that happen are Jimmy Kimmel and Molly.

[2009] Like, what is going on?

[2010] Yes.

[2011] Anywho.

[2012] And at this point, I'm feeling really, I look at Molly, Richard, And I said, I can't do this.

[2013] This is too much.

[2014] You're making you really insecure.

[2015] Yes.

[2016] I am I am Apex insecure right now.

[2017] Like I feel like, you're not going to know who you are.

[2018] Little kid, he has to say hi to me. This is so embarrassing for me. What am I doing?

[2019] Yeah, I'm an obligation.

[2020] The last thing I ever want to be.

[2021] Right.

[2022] You want to nurture and provide.

[2023] Yes.

[2024] Yeah.

[2025] I want to be his save.

[2026] I want to feed him his popcorn.

[2027] I want to give him big hugs.

[2028] Yes, yes.

[2029] Cradle him like a little baby.

[2030] Oh my God.

[2031] Touch the back.

[2032] of his neck you know all those things and then jimmy leans over to him he whispered something in his ear which is i can only imagine is okay so i'm really sorry this is what you're imagining yes i'm really sorry to do this but you know monica this starts with this little girls here sucks i know yes yes of course i said i know this really sucks but you know monica padman you definitely don't remember her but she's a piece of shit she's a nobody she's a complete fucking loser from Georgia.

[2033] She doesn't belong here.

[2034] I don't know how she got in.

[2035] I've already told security, but she is here.

[2036] She's in love with you.

[2037] This is what I assume.

[2038] This is definitely happened.

[2039] You definitely don't, but you might remember her because she works with Dax.

[2040] There's my insuring.

[2041] He's like, who?

[2042] No. Okay.

[2043] I don't hear anything Jimmy's saying, but I'm looking at Matt's face and he's not seen me yet.

[2044] And I see him say, oh, yeah, no, I know.

[2045] Right.

[2046] And then I like come in.

[2047] Well of probably relief.

[2048] I come and he said, Monica.

[2049] Hi.

[2050] We hugged.

[2051] Oh, geez.

[2052] He was so kind.

[2053] I said, I'm not going to take up any of your time.

[2054] I know you have a billion people here.

[2055] I'm just going to take my clothes off.

[2056] It'll be fast.

[2057] It'll be so bad.

[2058] If I can just rub against you, this thing will happen.

[2059] He was so handsome.

[2060] And he was.

[2061] No, but he's very like affectionate.

[2062] Oh, do you get quivies during that?

[2063] Yeah.

[2064] Yeah.

[2065] Yeah.

[2066] But also I was very preoccupied with not being someone who was going to take up too much of his time and bother him.

[2067] Right.

[2068] She said, I'm not going to.

[2069] The movie was so great.

[2070] You're so great.

[2071] He said, thank you.

[2072] Pop more is bad.

[2073] I didn't even get to make any jokes.

[2074] Like, as soon as it was happening, I was like, it's got to be over.

[2075] I got to get out of here.

[2076] Take the yes.

[2077] Get out of the room.

[2078] He knows you.

[2079] That's enough.

[2080] Yep.

[2081] It's only going to.

[2082] I'm quivering.

[2083] Oh.

[2084] Oh, what was that?

[2085] Oh.

[2086] Oh, no, not this.

[2087] Please, not now.

[2088] Oh, fuck.

[2089] Jimmy help.

[2090] Yeah.

[2091] Jimmy is in the, so Molly, I didn't know, Molly McNerney is like nearby snapping all these pictures of this.

[2092] I woke up to photographs of you that Molly McNerney had sent.

[2093] You and Kristen.

[2094] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2095] Yes, very cool.

[2096] And I wrote, shit, this is starting to happen quarterly.

[2097] Yeah.

[2098] He did say, he said, are you with Dax?

[2099] tonight or are you solo yes you left that part oh wow i'm telling you oh my god he remembered my name yes he said are you with dax tonight or or are you solo and i said i'm solo and he said i'm solo and he said my hand and then we like i said i'll see you later we're like good to see you but i'll see tonight my dreams yeah see tonight when i get my toy out anyway so it was um oh wow it was really really It was really special.

[2100] It was really special.

[2101] He just delivers.

[2102] Like, he's a very nice person.

[2103] He knows he needs to give me. It's what he did here.

[2104] It's exactly what he did here.

[2105] He gave me what I needed.

[2106] He did it again.

[2107] He'll do it again, too.

[2108] And let's hope we have the opportunity to do it again.

[2109] He's going to do it again.

[2110] For people wondering, I did not meet Ben.

[2111] Yeah.

[2112] And that's okay.

[2113] We didn't have a foundation.

[2114] No. And I don't need that until there's a foundation built in this.

[2115] room.

[2116] I'm really glad that this landed where it has.

[2117] I don't know that Ben's going to live up the way Matt has.

[2118] Matt has really delivered on every dream.

[2119] I know.

[2120] And the odds of two for two, I just don't know.

[2121] But you know, my expectations are different of him.

[2122] Okay.

[2123] They're not the same.

[2124] Okay.

[2125] You want to be more used by Ben.

[2126] No, no. No, no. I just, I know you know they're different.

[2127] They're different.

[2128] I know they're different.

[2129] I'm not expecting the same thing.

[2130] And I won't get the same feeling.

[2131] Like, I don't know how to explain it.

[2132] I just, I don't know how to explain it.

[2133] Yeah, it makes you nervous to try to explain it.

[2134] I want them both here together so, so bad.

[2135] Together.

[2136] Together.

[2137] I'm trying, you know.

[2138] And then I did convince myself, okay, maybe that interaction, at least just put that back in his memory, so then we go back for streaming time, like maybe.

[2139] I'll go get a good squeeze off her.

[2140] And don't rule out the notion that he's like, okay, I'm going to another squeeze on this.

[2141] No, you know why?

[2142] Because I saw his wife.

[2143] Okay.

[2144] She's beautiful.

[2145] It was beautiful.

[2146] Wonderful.

[2147] I'm so happy for it.

[2148] And I'm really glad Molly made me do it.

[2149] Yes.

[2150] And she, it's like, Monica, one life, one life.

[2151] Yeah, do it, baby.

[2152] And I was like, it's true one life.

[2153] Yes.

[2154] I'd love to meet a Monica that was, thought I was fantastic and felt elated.

[2155] when I squeezed her.

[2156] Both folks are winning in that.

[2157] I hope so.

[2158] Yeah, it wasn't like me going in for a hug.

[2159] And he's like, oh, fucking here we go.

[2160] No, he asked about you.

[2161] I know, but he wouldn't want to squeeze me. Yeah, I would.

[2162] I would push my groin into his so he could feel my penis.

[2163] And then he would feel insecure.

[2164] I'm not saying he would feel insecure.

[2165] I'm just saying I would also let him know what was happening there.

[2166] Yeah, I'd be like, okay, you're feeling the latissimus.

[2167] That's great.

[2168] And I'm going to push my groin into you.

[2169] Okay, so I think you're right that he probably.

[2170] He probably doesn't want to hug you.

[2171] That's right, because I would be dry humping his penis with my penis.

[2172] Like, do you feel that thing?

[2173] Oh, my God.

[2174] I have one of those.

[2175] He's so threatened by my success that he's trying to rub his penis on my thigh.

[2176] Yeah.

[2177] But, yeah, it was just one of those cool things.

[2178] I feel very grateful that, for one, everything.

[2179] Like, again, what is this life?

[2180] But I'm very grateful that I can still keep that excitement.

[2181] Yes, the fantasy alive.

[2182] The fantasy is still there.

[2183] It's so wonderful.

[2184] And I love that I can click into it.

[2185] It's like believing in magic still.

[2186] Can I just, there's another good boy.

[2187] It's not just Matt Damon.

[2188] Rob.

[2189] And I know he's a rascal sometimes.

[2190] But good boy just brought us some maru.

[2191] Really nice marro.

[2192] What a sweetheart.

[2193] He is the most thoughtful sweet boy.

[2194] He's a good boy.

[2195] You're a very good boy.

[2196] And he brought us Jersey mics.

[2197] And a rascal.

[2198] Well, many good boys are yeah some of the best boys are rascals yeah you know i've been sort of down for like a week and he can click he can get me out of that he snapped you right out of it i mean that lasts for a couple hours you know then i i get back to reality but it did and it's not because of him it's because it's the gratitude piece That interaction gives me so much gratitude for my life.

[2199] Gratitude is the antidote.

[2200] It is.

[2201] And it's really, I find it to be one of the harder tools to implement when you're depressed because, like, I can walk myself out to Black Mold Paradise and start moving.

[2202] Yeah.

[2203] But gratitude involves some buy -in.

[2204] It does.

[2205] You have to actually believe it.

[2206] But then the hack of it is you don't.

[2207] You just start writing it down.

[2208] Yeah.

[2209] It's actually the hack.

[2210] I can treat it just like.

[2211] like I do the gym, which is like, no, start making the list.

[2212] Yeah.

[2213] And it can be, I don't know who gave us it.

[2214] Oh, Stuts.

[2215] It's like, it can be small.

[2216] Yeah.

[2217] I fucking love my cars.

[2218] Yeah.

[2219] I'm so lucky.

[2220] Yeah.

[2221] When I have to drive somewhere, I'm in something I love driving.

[2222] What a fucking privilege.

[2223] It's perpetual.

[2224] Like, you know, I'm walking away from the thing.

[2225] And I'm like, wow, that was amazing.

[2226] Oh, yes.

[2227] I'm, yes, literally that.

[2228] I'm walking up to this fucking insane car that I drive.

[2229] that was horsepower galore that is beautiful and amazing that came to me via an incredible person in my life that's amazing that I get to work with that's amazing I mean it just you start to then see all the good things if you can if you can buy in it is everywhere yes it becomes a little self perpetuating anyway so I'm so happy for you what a wonderful night yeah it was it was really nice.

[2230] Did you have a good night making your spaghetti?

[2231] Were you able to make it?

[2232] I did make it.

[2233] Okay.

[2234] We had had a really big day yesterday.

[2235] Yeah.

[2236] We had nothing but big days.

[2237] We worked on Sunday.

[2238] Then yesterday was a really big day.

[2239] And then I was scrambling to, because we didn't finish till five.

[2240] Yeah.

[2241] And then I started frantically making it.

[2242] Yes.

[2243] I'll tell you the best part of making it was, moms must feel like this.

[2244] I had, speaking of gratitude, I had this moment.

[2245] I was like, my little girl turning 10 could have had anything she wanted what do you want to eat and she's like I want your spaghetti for my bread that meant so much to me I can't even tell you it's so silly no it's not that's incredible I was like of all the things in the world she can eat she wants me to make my spaghetti so I made it no real story there we didn't have garlic bread and thank god carly saved the day she ran out and got garlic bread you cannot have that meal without really cheap garlic bread it's key part and parcel so at any rate i was pretty busy cooking i had made lincoln a pretty good size plate and then i was distracted by the time i sat down to eat my spaghetti sauce over some rice oh wow no garlic bread and and over rice still great okay i look over and lincoln is about halfway through it and she goes oh i'm so full i thought that seemed average or whatever And then Kristen goes, yeah, you really went big on your second.

[2246] And I go, wait, that's your second plate?

[2247] No, Lincoln does not eat a lot.

[2248] She's just not a big eater.

[2249] She'd already eaten its enormous portion I gave to her and went and made a huge portion again.

[2250] And she was fucking sick all night.

[2251] But in that great sick way.

[2252] All night, she's like, oh, my God.

[2253] It was like a 50 -year -old man. So I'm so delighted.

[2254] People overconsumed.

[2255] That's really, I guess, the dream.

[2256] It's the biggest compliment.

[2257] It is.

[2258] So people get really sick at the end of the end.

[2259] meal that's the dream.

[2260] Oh, I'm so jealous.

[2261] Yeah.

[2262] I love your spaghetti.

[2263] There's a ton in the fridge.

[2264] You should grab some before you go.

[2265] Okay.

[2266] Yeah.

[2267] So that, yeah, that was lovely and sweet.

[2268] And our friend Delta was on a face time with her boyfriend the whole time.

[2269] Oh my God.

[2270] It was a peaceful dinner.

[2271] No, we all have.

[2272] Oh.

[2273] No, we all have.

[2274] Yeah, but your parents, you're going to be there.

[2275] Like, she only has so much room for her loved ones.

[2276] Now she has a boyfriend.

[2277] It's like, you know, it's funny is you can feel it too.

[2278] It's like, you know, I remember this like when I had a girlfriend it was like I could take on the world yeah I didn't care I had this girlfriend right and similarly she's like if she's not connecting with us she don't need to she's got this fucking boyfriend that's meeting all of her needs yeah that's a really interesting observation of love and relationships it's what callie gave you it's what erin gave me but I think I mean more romantic relationships?

[2279] Yeah.

[2280] I think it's why in their absence it feels so devastating because when you're in it, you do feel like bad things can happen and it's actually okay.

[2281] Yeah, because you have this person.

[2282] You have the love and affection of the person you want it from more than anyone else.

[2283] It's really the only thing that matters.

[2284] Everything else gets downgraded.

[2285] Yes.

[2286] Yeah.

[2287] So when you don't have that, everything bad rises to the surface and you have no protection from it.

[2288] Yeah, you're alone in it.

[2289] But I will say I got the exact same thing from Aaron, probably even more than I've ever gotten from a girlfriend.

[2290] Where I was like, if this dude thinks what I'm doing is funny and good, I don't really care what anyone else on the planet thinks.

[2291] All I need is him.

[2292] Yeah.

[2293] Yeah.

[2294] Yeah, I don't know.

[2295] So this is for Barbie.

[2296] Barbie.

[2297] Barbie.

[2298] I just did the edit before I came.

[2299] Okay, great.

[2300] So I do have to check one fact, okay?

[2301] And the fact is, are the Brazilians the first to do butt implants?

[2302] Ah, all right.

[2303] That was a dangerous claim I made.

[2304] I just want to see they were the first.

[2305] As a whole country.

[2306] Yeah.

[2307] Okay.

[2308] So in 1960, a surgeon named Ivo founded the world's first plastic surgery training center in Brazil.

[2309] Okay.

[2310] Where he pioneered what became known as the Brazilian buttlift.

[2311] And he taught surgeons all over the globe how to perform his techniques.

[2312] Okay.

[2313] That's a ding, ding, ding.

[2314] That reminds him on the far episode when I was editing it on the plane next to that baby.

[2315] And I was laughing so hard out loud.

[2316] I could not.

[2317] At what part?

[2318] In the girl who does the leap.

[2319] Oh, gosh.

[2320] when you are like getting involved and you're being the dance instructor and then you're doing the fart noises oh my god i was a lot of people commented about that i've wanted to go listen to it some people thought that was really funny it's made me want to go listen to it so funny but it won't show up on my spotify so i guess i'll never hear no no it's it's here but that was one of the ones that yeah no yeah um i was laughing so hard but anyway okay So you're right.

[2321] Okay, great.

[2322] You're right, good.

[2323] And then can we get one, just one rundown again of what happened with Johnny Depp and the dog in Australia?

[2324] Yeah, so I can I tell you my memory of it?

[2325] Yeah.

[2326] Yeah.

[2327] My memory was that they flew to Australia on a private jet.

[2328] Yeah.

[2329] And so they just brought their dog.

[2330] And then they went to their house they rented or whatever.

[2331] Uh -huh.

[2332] And it turns out you can't just bring your dog in.

[2333] Right.

[2334] It's got to go get quarantined.

[2335] and everything and had it been on a commercial flight that would have been unavoidable no you know yeah they could have never just left the airport with the mutt right and so apparently they wanted to quarantine the dog I want to say maybe I've just punched this story out okay that instead of quarantining they sent the dog back on its own private jet somewhere oh my god I hope that was the outcome I think that might be the real outcome okay um you have the real story well I pulled it up but now of course it's like I think the dogs got dragged back into the during the Amber Hurd Johnny yeah because now I'm seeing a lot about Hurd is blaming Yorkshire terrier boo for a for a truly gross incident and what's been a very messy divorce oh this she had pooped the bed or something remember there was an allegation of bed pooping yeah oh no but yeah but yeah but Amber Hurd and Johnny Depp got in trouble with Australian government for failing to declare their two Yorkshire terriers pistol and boo when entering Australia in 2015.

[2336] It's so dumb because these dogs have such dumb names.

[2337] And like to be reading something in CNN where there's names Pistol and Boo.

[2338] Corky and Bambo.

[2339] Oh, my God.

[2340] It's so stupid.

[2341] Okay, NPR also.

[2342] Flown out of Australia after threat of destruction.

[2343] Oh.

[2344] Oh, God.

[2345] They're going to euthanize them?

[2346] Let's see.

[2347] I think it's the rabies thing.

[2348] Oh.

[2349] They don't have rabies.

[2350] Yeah, they don't.

[2351] We just learned that.

[2352] Oh.

[2353] I don't know what they're missing.

[2354] Seriously.

[2355] Actor Johnny Depp was thrown into a controversy when Australian agriculture minister Barnaby Joyce threatened another impossible name, threatened to euthanize his dogs.

[2356] Joyce was concerned that somehow Depp had brought his dogs to Australia without first placing them under the mandated 10 -day quarantine.

[2357] Obviously, there's an investigation as to how they came out into Australia.

[2358] Mr. Depp decided that he'd step around our nation.

[2359] laws.

[2360] The actor who is in Queensland state to film Pirates of the Caribbean dead man tell no tales faces a formal interview with the quarantine officers as part of investigations into how the Yorkshire Terriers were allegedly smuggled in.

[2361] Sydney's Daily Telegraph said Depp and his actress model wife Amber Hurd, who have made no public comments on the issue, told the agricultural department they would fly out with boo and pistol on Friday night.

[2362] This is so stupid.

[2363] This is It feels like a sketch or something.

[2364] Yes, yes.

[2365] The Agricultural Department said it quarantines all dogs, even if they fly on private jets, to protect from some diseases, such as rabies.

[2366] Ooh, some other ones that sound horrible.

[2367] External parasites that are not present in Australia.

[2368] In any case, the department said on Friday that Pissom and Boo boarded a plane en route to the U .S. That means a private.

[2369] Yeah, it sure does.

[2370] You can't put them by themselves on an Air New Zealand flight.

[2371] oh what a silly world we live in a completely silly world pistol and poo pistol and poo what are they still with us pistol and poo who got them in the divorce oh good question yeah let's look there's like an easy compromise right on the table split them up each gets one but that's heartbreaking for poo and that'd be like your kids you can't do that unless they don't like each other like my dogs don't give a fuck about each other no but your kids do Yes, but not my dogs.

[2372] Yeah.

[2373] Yeah, but you wouldn't.

[2374] If I wanted a dog, it would be okay to split them up.

[2375] You would take whiskey.

[2376] If I was forced to take one of the dogs, it would be whiskey.

[2377] Yeah.

[2378] Yours would be a punishment.

[2379] You do.

[2380] He's so annoying, but I like him so much.

[2381] That's nice.

[2382] You know why I like him is he's so drawn to me. Yeah.

[2383] He follows me everywhere, and he likes to sit right by me. But he's also afraid to snuggle me. In fact, Kristen said, look how happy he is when he's with you.

[2384] And I said, I don't think it.

[2385] it's happiness, but I do observe...

[2386] Safety.

[2387] You're his alpha.

[2388] I labeled it something.

[2389] Yes.

[2390] It was like the absence of panic.

[2391] Yeah.

[2392] Is what he's feeling when he's with me. And that's so endearing.

[2393] It's what I'm trying to give everyone.

[2394] It is.

[2395] While I do crazy stuff and make everyone panic.

[2396] Oh, well.

[2397] That's mixed messies.

[2398] But yeah, no, he probably is afraid to snuggle you because I don't know you're allowed to snuggle the alpha.

[2399] Yes.

[2400] Uh -huh.

[2401] But you do feel safe.

[2402] Yeah, but I scratch on him and I kiss his head and I do all these things.

[2403] You kiss his head?

[2404] Every morning.

[2405] I hate him.

[2406] Every morning starts with him barking at my door.

[2407] I've just like got myself into my bed with my journal out and I've made my coffee and I'm about to start meditating.

[2408] Yeah.

[2409] I sit cross -legged when I meditate, which is a challenge for me. Yeah.

[2410] When I make myself.

[2411] Oh, my God.

[2412] These things I've forced myself to do.

[2413] So I like fold myself into this position.

[2414] I'm just starting my mantra.

[2415] Yeah.

[2416] Hachavan Rungdi.

[2417] Is that it?

[2418] Yeah, but I gave myself that one.

[2419] Oh.

[2420] Yeah, because a friend of mine had syllables added to his mantra.

[2421] Oh, I thought, oh, I'm going to add some syllables to mine.

[2422] So I've added, it's now Hashvan Rungdi.

[2423] And I also made...

[2424] You just said it.

[2425] Yeah, Hosh van Rungdi.

[2426] And then I made, even in my sketchbook, I made a Hach van Rungdi.

[2427] Because I picture something, as I'm saying, it's on a wheel that's spinning and I read it.

[2428] So I drew this recently.

[2429] So fuck it.

[2430] Hoshvon Rung -Dee.

[2431] Feel free to use it.

[2432] Wow.

[2433] Anyways, I just start my hosh -vah.

[2434] And I'm like, God, fucking damn.

[2435] I got to unfold myself and fucking go get that stupid dog.

[2436] And then I got to lift him up.

[2437] And then he's going to jump down at some point, come back.

[2438] Wow.

[2439] And you allow this.

[2440] You don't kick him out.

[2441] I do it.

[2442] That's really nice.

[2443] Well, let's be honest.

[2444] I do it half the time.

[2445] I often wear my noise canceling headphones as soon as I wake up, so I don't hear all the racket that's going to.

[2446] on.

[2447] And I'll ignore them sometimes and just hope that the girls are going to come in the room.

[2448] So they know half the time someone enters and he gets put on my bed while I'm in the middle of meditating.

[2449] Yeah.

[2450] When we watched Cocaine Bear, he did sit with us for a little bit with me and Molly.

[2451] And he was on my leg for a bit.

[2452] He did throw up noises.

[2453] Yeah.

[2454] He was about to throw up on me and I was like, oh, no. But then when he put his little head down, I was like, God, he's so tiny it's hard not to feel sad for him or protective like there's he's got the three legs he's down a leg he's down a leg down a leg down a leg up a bark when he has his little head on me I think oh do I need to get one yeah of course yeah but I don't like dogs so like no I don't and it's funny because when I'm getting when I hate him and I'm annoyed I also know this is what makes you happy being of service to something you don't want to be is what makes you like yourself and go through the day in a good mood.

[2455] So it's like I wish just knowing that would make me not hate it but all the things are happening at the same time.

[2456] I fucking want to kill him and I know he's good for me and I'm good for him.

[2457] It's very nice.

[2458] So we just do it.

[2459] Yeah.

[2460] Sweet.

[2461] I found an update on Pistol and Boo.

[2462] Oh, what's happening?

[2463] So this is from July 22.

[2464] Okay.

[2465] Okay.

[2466] She got custody of Pistol and Boo after splitting from TEP.

[2467] This person did a deep dive into her Instagram and found that boo is nowhere to be found.

[2468] But Pistol is all over her Instagram.

[2469] Oh, so he, we might have lost Poo.

[2470] Sounds like Poo is, you know.

[2471] Okay.

[2472] All right.

[2473] So we're going to get one freaky fan who loves Poo and is like, stop calling.

[2474] So bad at us.

[2475] Yeah.

[2476] It's not funny that he died.

[2477] We don't think it's funny.

[2478] We never thought it was funny.

[2479] We just learned that their names today.

[2480] So I don't have a super attachment to them.

[2481] I know.

[2482] We're having a hard time getting attached to the dogs we know, let alone, pistil and poop.

[2483] Poop and pistol.

[2484] That's a cool, that'd be a cool, like, leather shop.

[2485] Like, cool motorcycle jackets and helmets, poop and pistol.

[2486] I would be in there as a second.

[2487] I was driving down the street and just out of the corner of my eye.

[2488] I saw poop and pistol.

[2489] I'd fucking bang a U -turn immediately and get inside that store and see what was happening.

[2490] Oh, my goodness.

[2491] All right.

[2492] Well, that's that.

[2493] I love you.

[2494] I love you.

[2495] Let's talk to some armcherrys.

[2496] Okay.

[2497] All right.

[2498] Bye.

[2499] Bye.

[2500] Follow armchair expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[2501] You can listen to every episode of Armchair expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app.

[2502] Or on.

[2503] Apple Podcasts.

[2504] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.