Deal With the Behavior Problem, Not Just the Math Problem!

[0] from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best -selling author, is my co -host today, and a host of the Dr. John Deloney show on the Ramsey Networks, which is going crazy good.

[2] Ratings are nuts.

[3] Thank you, guys.

[4] We appreciate it.

[5] We're here to help you with your life, your money, whatever's going on.

[6] The phone number is 3 ,8 -825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[7] We're going to start off this hour with James in Springfield, Illinois.

[8] Hi, James.

[9] How are you?

[10] Oh, pretty good.

[11] How are you guys doing?

[12] Better than I deserve.

[13] What's up?

[14] Well, I've got a question about paying off student loan debt.

[15] So I've got a mortgage with a 6 % interest rate.

[16] but I've applied for an income -driven save plan that because of my family size and my income has zero percent interest.

[17] I'm wondering if I should pay off the mortgage first or keep that money going towards the student loan.

[18] Student loans.

[19] As soon as possible, fast.

[20] And that crap you signed up for is going to keep you in debt for 40 years.

[21] so it's not going to do any good at all.

[22] If you can get zero percent, that's fine.

[23] But then I want you to attack this thing.

[24] How much student loan debt have you got?

[25] 31 ,000.

[26] What do you make?

[27] What's your household income?

[28] I make 110K a year.

[29] How fast you're going to pay off 31 ,000?

[30] I mean attack it.

[31] How fast you're going to do it?

[32] Well, so the thing is I have a family of seven, so it makes it a bit difficult to set aside money to attack it.

[33] and it's an excuse right when are you going to pay it off it's not a pet right right right yeah so my my thing is it seems like I'm leaving money on the table James you still hadn't answered the question how fast can you pay off 31 ,000 dollars if you put everybody on beans and rice rice and beans you stop going out to eat you stop going on vacations you sell so much stuff one of those seven kids thinks they're next.

[34] I mean, how fast are you going to pay this to $30 ,000 off?

[35] Yeah.

[36] I've got about...

[37] James!

[38] It's an answer.

[39] I could pay it off quick.

[40] How fast?

[41] How fast?

[42] Give me an answer.

[43] Three years?

[44] Three years.

[45] Do you have any money saved at all?

[46] Yeah, $6 ,000.

[47] Okay.

[48] All right.

[49] Three years is ridiculous.

[50] I want you to do it in less than two.

[51] I'm serious.

[52] You guys are not your, You're saying, we've got a large family.

[53] They eat a lot.

[54] Yeah, they do.

[55] And yes, they have to have clothes and yes, they have to have shoes.

[56] And yes, that's a real thing.

[57] I know all that.

[58] But, dude, you have never sat down and written all this out in great detail and decided to attack it.

[59] You were trying to figure out a way to keep it around like it's a family member.

[60] It's not a family member.

[61] It's crap.

[62] You need to get it out of your life.

[63] It's killing you guys.

[64] How long have you had this student loaned at?

[65] About five years now.

[66] Yeah, see, there's my point.

[67] And you've done nothing.

[68] You sound beat up, man. You're avoiding it.

[69] Yeah, why's your head hung so low?

[70] Well, so bills have been tight with all the kids, and I've just, you know, my wife had triplets, which is why we have many children, and Bill's them in tight because of that.

[71] When did the triplets come?

[72] Six months ago.

[73] Okay.

[74] Yeah.

[75] Yeah, that's a legitimate thing, but here's the deal.

[76] as you know I mean yes that's a wonderful blessing and also whoa yeah and yeah and so uh but the good news is the older they get the less they cost right okay until they get to cars and colleges and stuff but anyway but yeah so you know you've kind of got this to the shock to the system mathematically is just about over and um you guys have got to sit down and do a detailed plan.

[77] You've been overwhelmed by this overwhelming number.

[78] I mean, you almost doubled your kids in one fell swoop, right?

[79] That's emotional.

[80] It's hard.

[81] Parenting -wise, there's a lot of duties, a lot of responsibilities, a lot of chaos.

[82] And that's translated down into your money.

[83] And then you're just going, well, we got a bunch of kids.

[84] We can't do it.

[85] We got a bunch of kids.

[86] We can't do it.

[87] Yes, you can.

[88] Yes, you can't.

[89] We have people with large families stand on the debt -free stage every single month that do the Ramsey stuff but they're doing a written budget with their spouse they're both a saying this is very important to get this out of my life I'm not going to use a zero percent interest rate as a justification for not dealing for this you got to deal with it you got to knock it out because if you don't it's going to hover and hang around forever no one's coming to fix this you are the solution even if I can if I can get that mortgage down quicker and say man i tell you what here's here's the deal brother it's it's 63 times i tell you something yeah you got to get your head out of the math game because what's killing your household right now you're only in the math game because you gave up it's not yeah it's not four or five percentage points what's killing you it's not about interest rate yeah it's about getting it's about you haven't dealt with your crap yeah and every time i bring it up you all you do sidestep and try to do math like some sixth grader dude go deal with the problem Go deal with the problem.

[90] It is a lot more complicated than 6 versus 0%.

[91] It's a lot more complicated.

[92] Number one, you've got five years of denial in your behavior patterns.

[93] Number two, the house is going up in value.

[94] The student loan is going up in balance because the thing you signed up for is going backward all the time.

[95] You've got to lean into this and blow it.

[96] it up you've got to change your view on this and quit trying to figure out a way to act like it's not there it's there it's almost like he's trying to find a second job without you know to help with all these kids and he's figured out maybe i figured out a loophole's way to get some more like i'm trying to think of the psychology just get this thing out of your house man just get it out of the house get out of the house you've got to dump it you got to dump it it's that simple you got it You've got to push it.

[97] And, John, this is the psychology of this.

[98] I cannot.

[99] People will get lackadaisical and quit on their student loans because of the size, I guess, of the loan, where they'll turn around and take a car and they'll get mad and pay it off.

[100] Or they'll take a credit card and get mad and pay it off.

[101] But the student loan just seems to lay around like, dead gum, you know, it just is okay.

[102] We're just sitting in the swamp.

[103] Look, number one, the federal government dangles this.

[104] We'll take it away from you.

[105] So just keep putting it down the road.

[106] And all your friends tell you, well, you're stupid and you should do this.

[107] And here's a zero interest here.

[108] And there's a 6 % here.

[109] Your broke friends giving you financial advice.

[110] Well, it goes back to, I saw the great Dr. Peter Attia ranting the other day.

[111] It was fantastic.

[112] He said, you should not be able to post on a health and fitness Instagram account until you can do 100 pushups.

[113] Until then, I don't care what you have to say.

[114] I don't care what your opinion is about a thing.

[115] Right.

[116] Because you're stepping over $100 bills to pick up pennies.

[117] That's what's happening here.

[118] I'm stepping over peace.

[119] I'm stepping over.

[120] I got six kids and I can focus on them to try to pick up an interest rate gain.

[121] And it's just, I want to hug the guy, man. But I can see the chaos as clear as day.

[122] It's all over it.

[123] Yeah.

[124] The whole thing, everything in his life's chaotic.

[125] Get a sense of order, a sense of discipline, sense of direction, follow a proven plan.

[126] Game on, game on, game on, quit trying to calculate your way out of this.

[127] Pay the stupid thing off.

[128] This is the Ramsey show.

[129] I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[130] Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially, the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible.

[131] People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance.

[132] When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills?

[133] I'm going to eat next week.

[134] Yeah, in the middle of all that grief.

[135] Like, it's just, it is.

[136] It's terrible.

[137] So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

[138] Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

[139] And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies.

[140] It doesn't cost much.

[141] You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

[142] You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say, I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

[143] The cost of stinking pizza.

[144] To get a free quote, call 800 -356 -4282.

[145] That's 800 -356 -4282.

[146] Or go to Xander .com.

[147] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, Personality, is my co -host today.

[148] Open phones at Triple -8 -8 -25 -5 -2 -2 -5.

[149] Larry Burkett used to be on the air a thousand years ago.

[150] He did a Christian radio show.

[151] Money Matters, it was called, about what the Bible says about money.

[152] And he's one of the guys I learned from.

[153] I certainly learned what the Bible says about money from Larry a lot.

[154] He passed away several years ago.

[155] We became friends before he passed away.

[156] But at first I was just a fanboy.

[157] and he used to say debt is never the problem financial problems are never the problem they're always the symptom so you need to keep that in mind because that's how we're going to view it personal finances 80 % behavior is 20 % head knowledge so if you have a student loan debt that you've made no progress on for five years The student loan debt is not the problem.

[158] The new triplets that just came were not here for the last five years.

[159] They're not the problem.

[160] The interest rate is not the issue.

[161] This is not an interest rate issue.

[162] This is a you problem.

[163] And John, when people get to the bottom of that, that's the beautiful thing about the work you do in counseling.

[164] with a PhD in counseling and the work that the reason you joining this team is a Ramsey personality is a perfect overlap to our approach to money because what I'm the interest rate is irrelevant because you haven't dealt with you that's the thing when you deal with you you're you're not only going to get financial peace two words that don't go together like airline service but you're also going to get progress and wealth.

[165] Until you deal with you, you're not going to get any of that.

[166] Right.

[167] And it's hard to sell somebody on that when they're so convinced from a TikTok ad or TikTok's, you know, swipe or whatever, where they got the information.

[168] And I think a lot of us sit in our house, man, and we just spin out with life's problems.

[169] I can't imagine having triplets just show up after having a couple of other kids.

[170] Whatever your problem happens to be, you lost your job, Marriage is falling apart, whatever it is.

[171] And it's so much easier.

[172] We have so much distraction in our world.

[173] We can just spin our wheels and jam that gas pedal into the bottom of the car thinking we're going real fast and we're going nowhere.

[174] We're just avoid.

[175] But money is such an interesting topic because it lets us, it lures us to our own death because it makes us think we can fix it by fixing the math.

[176] and the math is very seldom the problem.

[177] The math is the symptom.

[178] It's not the problem.

[179] The problem is our spending, our income, our lack of control, our lack of working together.

[180] Our choices.

[181] I'm going to keep these for five years.

[182] Our behaviors and our principles by which, but we somehow think we can unplug from all of this stuff that's called our life and set this money thing over here to the side and just fix it with just math but the and the reason you can't is it doesn't unplug it's sitting there right in the middle of your freaking life because your life is impacting it it's impacting your life you can't just set it over here in a test tube and go it's a math thing 6 % versus zero it's not a math thing and let's let's let's I want to speak to the person who's listen to this or to the gajillions of people who are listening to this who are five years from today away from triplets or a job loss or a mom calling and saying I have cancer or a husband saying I haven't been faithful or whatever the thing is that choice starts now because five years ago if they had been hell bent on paying these things off its life would still be chaotic but I want people to listen to that man's voice it just sounds cooked right it's it's heartbreaking and you can celebrate the chaos of three kids coming home or not be able to breathe because you can't there's no there's no room for three kids i remember when our oldest daughter denise had the third one her husband bill said well we just went from man on man to zone defense my buddy said man it was all cool till we went from man to man to zone they win taylor is in indianapolis hey taylor what's up how we doing today thank you for taking my call sure man how can i help um so i'm thinking about doing any job switch.

[183] Right now I drive a dump truck, and I'm in the union and everything, but I'm looking to be a pilot, but I have $5 ,000 in debt, and it's going to send me back another $85 ,000, but I plan on having the $5 ,000 that I have now and paying that off this season before I get laid off.

[184] You're asking me if you're going to go, if I think you should go $85 ,000 in debt to be a pilot?

[185] Is that what you're asking?

[186] Yeah, if you think it's a smart job, which.

[187] No, it's not.

[188] Okay.

[189] Under no circumstances, what I do that.

[190] Now, should you go become a pilot?

[191] Yeah, probably.

[192] How old are you?

[193] I'm 30.

[194] Okay.

[195] Are you married?

[196] I am.

[197] Okay.

[198] I would talk to the Air National Guard and see if they have any programs for training pilots while you serve your country, weekends, and two or three, sets of boot camp a year.

[199] That wouldn't put you away from your family necessarily or not for long periods of time.

[200] And let's see if they'll pay for it.

[201] They have lots of wonderful programs.

[202] I know that.

[203] I also would start talking to the local airport about how I can get my hours there after I get a, I would pay to get a certain number of hours and get my first set of are you licensed at all?

[204] No, right now I drive a dump truck.

[205] No, I know, I heard that, but have you gotten any pilots' hours in at all?

[206] No. How do you know you want to do that?

[207] I worked at the airport about five years ago, and I wanted to do it about that time, sorry.

[208] But I never pulled the trigger, and I end up just going to get my CDLs, and I've been at this for about five years now.

[209] Okay.

[210] All right.

[211] I'm with you on living your dream.

[212] I just don't want you to do it in such a way it becomes a nightmare.

[213] So let's figure out a way that we can walk into this a little at a time, start getting your hours in while you keep.

[214] driving truck and because you're making some good money on the truck but we're not we just don't be doing that 10 years from now you want to be in the air right yes but i don't want i don't want to try to do it as super high speed because i don't want you going 85 000 in debt because you might not make 65 000 a first year it's very possible if you got your commercial hours in and you can actually fly a jet and that may cost you more than 85 000 to get to that point where you can actually pick up a regional job doing some of these puddle jumpers they don't pay anything man yeah entry level pilot pay sucks yeah i'm from what i heard it's about 55 000 a year but then yep i would be on with lift academy to say i get on with republic and i pay ninety four an hour starting off so maybe maybe maybe but hey you're you're about to walk into the trap brother where you borrow a bunch of money and you've done some napkin envelope on the top carrier paying a top dollar and you've made that math work yeah and there's a lot of maybes and maybe not some probably and probably not's in between you and that dollar amount man so you're trying to jump from the dock into the boat and the boat's not close enough to the dock that's what I'm saying so I want you to pull the boat closer to the dock and how's that sound it sounds like going over there starting to get some of your hours paying for your first level of licenses maybe get a weekend job as an instructor once you got enough hours under your belt and they'll pay you to put more hours down and you can start to build your hours up because the biggest cost is not the actual certifications, it's the hours to get ready.

[215] And then if you want to take, because when you take a job at 55 or 60 versus what you're doing now, Union to dump truck, you're taking a pay cut to move into this dream initially.

[216] And I don't care if you found one off at 94.

[217] That's not that, that's not an industry.

[218] The industry is 55 or 60 right now for entry.

[219] And I want you to go do that because you can make your, way up to two or three hundred thousand someday but please don't go eighty five thousand dollars in debt and rush this do it a little bit at a time and or talk to the air national guard let's see if you can figure out we get some hours working for your country and they'll pay for the whole stinking thing possibly i don't know let's see what they got out there this is the ramsie show this show is sponsored by better help hey good folks the back -to -school madness is upon us it's hitting us right now we got travel and work and all these fours to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[220] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[221] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[222] Here's what I've learned.

[223] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[224] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[225] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[226] So don't skip the things that matter.

[227] So don't skip the things that to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[228] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

[229] BetterHelp is 100 % online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.

[230] It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

[231] And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos.

[232] In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first.

[233] Never skip therapy day.

[234] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[235] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Deloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[236] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[237] Thanks for joining us America.

[238] Dr. John Deloney.

[239] Ramsey Personality is my co -host.

[240] So John, the Ramsey cash give is here, $3 ,000.

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[247] It usually just shows up like in your account.

[248] Is this how you're telling me that that's not for me?

[249] This is not yours.

[250] All right.

[251] It's not even mine because it's actually earmarked.

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[255] The Ramsey Cash Giveaways here.

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[264] So while you're there, though, check out our bestsellers.

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[267] is questions for human cards on sale baby steps millionaires my latest number one bestseller is also on sale 20 % off and shop the sale ramsysolutions dot com check out the store while you're there but be sure you register for the three thousand dollars that could be a fun game just to uh kind of work through what do we think people would spend three thousand bucks on just to run here it would like ken would buy some incredible clothes he's a sharp dressed man James would buy a guitar George would buy another cherry -flavored vape pen whatever millennials George would buy something to charge his car up with he would buy another double a battery charger yeah that's what it is so what's Rachel Cruz to buy with that that can't even cover her latte it won't even it won't even get her attention that won't even she wouldn't stop to pick that up yeah that's it so there you go I'm thinking ammo of course you are of course you are I don't have a problem Can I get another framed photo I don't have a gun problem I have a problem with guns All right here we go Nicole's in Cedar Falls Iowa Hi's Nicole how are you Hi I'm great Thank you so much for having you guys I'm a big fan Well we're honored how can we help you So I guess my question today is How do I stay motivated to continue On to Baby Step 2 With pain off debt while I have a child with a severe medical condition and then what sort of emergency fund goes in with that yeah I'm just kind of at a loss so what's up with your baby what's the deal um so my daughter it will be six next week and she has a severe medical condition she has a heart condition and she's had four open heart surgeries before she was one years old and we were basically living in the hospital I'm Iowa that entire time.

[268] She's a fighter, though, has been doing great.

[269] However, she will need more surgeries in the future, and she actually is looking at another surgery here this summer sometime.

[270] We just don't really know quite yet, and my husband and I have previously gone through Financial Peace University prior to being married, again, after we had our daughter, and we do really good for a little bit, and then we just lose that.

[271] intensity, and usually it's related to something happening with her, just where we're like, oh, crap, we're back in the hospital.

[272] You're saying that like you did something wrong.

[273] You didn't.

[274] You did everything exactly right.

[275] When your daughter is in the hospital having open heart surgery for the fifth or sixth time and she's six years old, you should not be intense about money.

[276] You should be intense about loving her.

[277] Okay, okay.

[278] Which is what you did.

[279] Yeah, you're a good mom, Nicole.

[280] You did everything right.

[281] Thank you.

[282] yeah how many bags of fritos have you had for dinner out of a vending machine in a hospital right you're right that's yeah there's been a lot of a lot of days where that you survive so maybe your workout plan is not on track with your daughter getting surgery oh well you know oh well you're surviving so here's the thing um number one you're dealing with the thing that's gone on over seven years is that what i heard uh she'll be six this year so six and a half is And so that's a long period of time.

[283] And the entire six years was not in crisis, just at different moments.

[284] But when the crisis hit, it throws everything off because everything's full stop to deal with, to deal with the situation, right?

[285] Exactly.

[286] Yeah, it drains all of your emotions.

[287] It drains all of your attention.

[288] It drains all of your bank account.

[289] And it should.

[290] She's worth it.

[291] Yeah, for sure.

[292] You're doing the right stuff, okay?

[293] Now, the trick is, number one, I want not only give you permission, but also more importantly to tell you your instincts were correct, continue the path you've been on, which is when we are dealing with a crisis, we're full stop.

[294] We push stop on the total money makeover.

[295] We just, we're in financial survival mode because we're going to pour everything we have into this crisis until the crisis subsides.

[296] so let's kind of let's walk through a possible example all right if my daughter granddaughter either one was going into surgery for open heart this summer um I would not be worrying about making progress right this second on my financial goals I would be worrying praying focusing on that surgery the prepared walking up to it and walking out of it now a year from now she's home healing doing well well i need to push play again and get back on the get back on my game and start you know start a year later start focusing on that but um but you've done the right thing it sounds to me like john what are you yeah i was just writing down Nicole um are you finding you and your husband you're heading back into that um feeling you had five years ago where you just feel powerless?

[297] Yes, for sure.

[298] I struggle with some anxiety anyways, and it's just that PTSD moment.

[299] We just had our son four months ago, too, and had some medical stuff with him.

[300] Yeah, because why not, right?

[301] Yeah, like, it just never stopped.

[302] All right, so here's what I want you and your husband to do.

[303] I want you to hang on the line.

[304] I'm going to send you building an unenched life as my gift.

[305] I want you all to use these six choices as your roadmap.

[306] But I want you and your husband to take a morning, and ask someone from your church to come by, ask a friend to come by, a coworker to come by and just watch the kids for a couple hours, which you probably haven't done in a long, long time.

[307] And I know it sounds crazy, but I want you to do that, and I want you all just to sit with each other for a second.

[308] And I want y 'all to write down on a piece of paper, all right, we're heading into surgery this summer.

[309] What are we going to need?

[310] And I want you to challenge the people around you, not for real challenge, but give them an opportunity to love you.

[311] Say, I'm going to need this many meals because I'm tired of eating out of a vending machine.

[312] I'm going to need if you can help with a gas card I want you guys to practice some of these things that really chip away at your health and at your money like these little nickel and dime things you got the big million dollar hospital bill fine but you just get run over with we got to go grab some dinner go grab some dinner hey let's go grab some of this hey we need to grab some of this I want you and your husband to be honest about writing that stuff down you see this one coming this time you didn't see it coming when she was born you see this one coming and let's write some of this stuff down and let's give our friends who love us an opportunity to show up maybe they won't but maybe they will right and then give yourself permission our first time around with our daughter so I mean we we have family we have friends who do love on us really well it's it's always hard to ask for help yep yep and that those days are over but you need help you need help and and you need to say out loud we're temporarily pushing the pause button on baby step two and intensity we're going to use all of those calories all of that energy to love each other and to deal with the emotions associated with this life or death situation i want i want to face all that i want that given i want to give everything i am to that and then when that has passed and it will pass it has and flows, right?

[313] Oh, yeah.

[314] When it has passed, then you push play again, and you go, okay, now we can focus on that thing.

[315] Let's get baby step two jacked up.

[316] Let's get going again and feel zero guilt about the time we took off from the plan, the money plan, to go work on more important things, which is your daughter and each other and your marriage and the whole situation.

[317] So good stuff.

[318] You're a great lady.

[319] Thank you for calling.

[320] Nicole, this is The Ramsey Show.

[321] Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success.

[322] So, work with a mortgage advisor you trust not just some random website.

[323] Churchill Mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps and expertly guide you through every step.

[324] Learn more at Churchillmortgage .com.

[325] This is a paid advertisement.

[326] An MLSI -D -1591, NMLS Consumer Access .org, Equal Housing Lender.

[327] 1749, Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027.

[328] Thanks for hanging out with us, America.

[329] We're so glad you're here.

[330] Open phones at AAA 8255 -225.

[331] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, Personality, is my co -host today.

[332] Building a non -anxious life is his latest number one New York Times, our number one bestseller, national bestseller.

[333] We're glad you're here.

[334] Thanks for hanging out.

[335] It's on sale with a big Ramsey sale.

[336] It is.

[337] time we've ever done that rambysolutions dot com go go pick it up plus store 20 % off on all these bestsellers so be sure and check them out and a deal on the human conversations cards too yeah man that's pretty good so uh hey if you guys want to help us out further we would appreciate that click share and share this show with someone or cut the link out and send it to somebody however you do it and click follow and subscribe any of that helps the algorithms big time here we appreciate you guys, whether you're YouTube or whether you're listening on Talk Radio or one of the many different other forms that carry the show from satellite radio to of course all the podcast platforms with Apple and Google Play and Spotify, everybody out there.

[338] Thank you guys for all the different ways you're getting a hold of this.

[339] But tell people about us.

[340] We appreciate that.

[341] It helps a bunch.

[342] Scott is up next in Seattle.

[343] Hi, Scott.

[344] How are you?

[345] Good.

[346] How are you guys doing?

[347] Better than we deserve.

[348] What's up?

[349] Good to hear.

[350] I'm calling to get some advice on making a first home purchase.

[351] My fiance and I are getting married later this year.

[352] Yay.

[353] And we'd like, yeah, thank you.

[354] And we'd like to get into a house, ideally within the next two years.

[355] Mm -hmm.

[356] We have no debt, and we think we could save up about 50 % of the down payment for the house.

[357] Wow.

[358] In that time frame.

[359] Good for you.

[360] Thank you.

[361] We appreciate it.

[362] That being said, we've heard some advice that putting that amount of cash towards the house doesn't make like 100 % sense.

[363] And sometimes in some situations, it can better be put towards investments if the interest rate for the mortgage is pretty good.

[364] That would be advice from broke people who don't know what the flip they're talking about.

[365] Well, that makes it pretty clear.

[366] I would 100 % do this with my family in my home.

[367] If I were, if I were you, I would do exactly what you're talking about doing.

[368] And let me back that mouth up, okay?

[369] We did the largest study of millionaires, not broke people with an opinion, millionaires, people that have a $1 million or greater net worth that's ever been done in North America.

[370] We studied 10 ,167 of them.

[371] The number of them that said, out of 10 ,000 millionaires, the number one, the number of them that said we became a millionaire because we, invested our cash instead of putting it down on the house was precisely zero no one said that rich people simply do not do what you're talking about broke people talk about it pretty clear say that rich people do it but they simply do not do it what we found instead scott was that the typical person how old are you 30 and you sound like you guys are making uh two 250 are you what are you making Between the two of you.

[372] Around 150 total pre -tax.

[373] That's your combined income after you're married?

[374] Correct.

[375] Okay.

[376] Wow, you're aggressive savers in.

[377] Very good.

[378] Either way, so here's what we found.

[379] By the time you're 42, if you fit the plot profile, the typical template that we found, the case studies of these average millionaires, the typical millionaire that we went through, they had two things primarily that caused them to hit their first one to five million dollars of net worth and that was that they got a paid off house six seven eight hundred thousand dollars paid off house by the time you're there it'll be more than that and they've invested simultaneously into their 401ks and Roth IRAs and built those up and so they're sitting with five or six hundred thousand in each and so they've got a million two million five million eight net worth, something like that.

[380] And that's the first, the two biggest things that we saw that people did, financial products, so to speak, financial pathways that cause people to actually hit that level of wealth, a paid off house and a loaded up retirement.

[381] It was that simple.

[382] There wasn't a bunch of smoking mirrors.

[383] There wasn't a bunch of, oh, I'm going to borrow on my mortgage because I can make more in the market.

[384] I'm going to put the money in the market and that arbitrage, some TikTok guy learned a new word the other day, apparently, you know, it's an old word.

[385] But the, anyway, that, that spread I'm making is going to make me rich.

[386] And so, Scott, that's, you know, it's social media bull crap is what it is.

[387] So the reality is, is that wealthy people simply pay off their out.

[388] So I, I am so impressed that you can put 50 % down in two years.

[389] What that also tells me is in two to three more years, you've got to completely paid off.

[390] Pay it off, man. And you're going to be 35 years old with a paid off.

[391] freaking house in Seattle and the stupid things going up like a rocket ship and you're going to be sitting on a million dollar house it's paid for in just a handful of years.

[392] Dave, I'm convinced that the age of the influencer is coming to an end because I think people have been doing this nonsense for several years and like the caller we had the beginning of this of this of this hour you still got your student loans after five years.

[393] You still got this.

[394] You still got this people who just learn a new fancy word and try to sell it and tell everybody, do this thing, it just doesn't work after one, two, three, four, five years.

[395] It doesn't work.

[396] It doesn't work.

[397] It doesn't work.

[398] Well, the influencer is the, um, the not wise.

[399] It's the stepchild of reality TV.

[400] Right.

[401] Okay.

[402] So reality TV is you became famous for what?

[403] Being famous.

[404] All right.

[405] You did nothing.

[406] You're on TV.

[407] You just were on TV being absurd.

[408] And you're, the absurdity was somewhat entertaining and you or you were pretty or you were something right and but you're you're basically an uh an empty suit you know you got nothing to say you are nothing but we're all watching you anyway like we're a moth drawn to a flame you know and then they start giving advice and then the next step is they go we go from that to people who are empty suits who have never done anything are now influencers right and they have absolutely zero earned the right to have that influence not at all teaching a generation of people not at all things that are going to ripple through their family tree for a long time but it's the sick child of reality tv is the influencer and so you're exactly right we're seeing the data the data scientists are coming out i mean we study this stuff because of social media and because of the platforms that we're all involved in and and we've got about four different sources coming at us right now that are very credible john's been nerding out on this stuff but we're looking at it as a company right now because Ramsey's in the broadcast business, we're in the content business, the business of influencing you, but we actually are not empty suits.

[409] We actually have the knowledge, the degrees, the experience, the things to tell you this, and the back it up with the research.

[410] So Scott's not any of that.

[411] He just caught the back end of that.

[412] Sorry, Scott, you're doing great.

[413] Scott, you're doing great.

[414] 50 % down, get that sucker paid off.

[415] I mean, you get married and you can say that kind of money in the first two years and you go put a big old chunk on the down payment.

[416] You're going to be glad you did.

[417] and don't take financial advice from broke people.

[418] That's what we're saying.

[419] And don't take life -altering advice from somebody that had a single experience.

[420] Well, here's the thing.

[421] If you're going to be a life coach, you should have first had a life.

[422] Correct.

[423] Well, and here's the thing, though.

[424] Like, I love folks.

[425] They go through, you know, somebody cheats on somebody, and they go through three years of hard therapy.

[426] They rebuild their marriage, and it's amazing.

[427] And they reach out and they say, hey, we want to write a book on marriage.

[428] and we want to become marriage speakers.

[429] And when I always have to break their heart and say, hey, you had an experience in your house.

[430] You did.

[431] That does not make you the person, right?

[432] You have all the letters.

[433] You know what you're talking about.

[434] And you have a personal experience.

[435] And I think the cornerstone to wise counsel is you've walked with millions of people.

[436] And so you have the academic stuff.

[437] You've got a whole bunch of different stories.

[438] And you know what it's like to have to go tell your wife, we lost everything.

[439] All three of those.

[440] make you a credible person to listen to not just you went to school because we got plenty of that nonsense and not just because you got a bunch of people that show up at your house it's all of it together man and you got to be careful about how you take counsel from especially when it comes to your health especially when it comes to your health especially when it comes to nutrition especially it comes to your money the Bible does not say in the multitude of counsel there's safety it says in the multitude of wise that's right counsel that's right and that's what we're saying we're actually seeing the data that the power of the influencer is starting to Wayne.

[441] And it, you know, someone just is now someone who can garner some likes, garner some clicks, is telling you what to do with your money.

[442] And I think Gen Z's the one killing it because Gen Z's sick of it.

[443] They're sick of things that are not authentic.

[444] They're watching their parents that it didn't work.

[445] They're watching their older brothers and sisters.

[446] It's not authentic.

[447] And Gen Z can smell a rat a mile away.

[448] And that's one of the reason we love Gen Z around here.

[449] This is the Ramsey Show.

[450] from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions.

[451] It's the Ramsey Show.

[452] We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[453] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author of the book, Building a Non -Anxious Life, and host to the Dr. John Bloney Show.

[454] He's my co -host today.

[455] Open phones at AAA -825 -2 -2 -25.

[456] You jump in.

[457] We'll talk about your life.

[458] your money.

[459] Tammy is in Atlanta to start this hour off.

[460] Hi, Tammy, how are you?

[461] I'm blessed.

[462] How are you guys today?

[463] Better than we deserve.

[464] How can we help?

[465] Hi, my question is, is how can I say from our retirement when I'm basically living paycheck to paycheck?

[466] Okay.

[467] Why are you living paycheck to paycheck?

[468] Well, I am 51 years old.

[469] I work blue collar electrician and I am married, but with my debt, I have a debt unofficially at $55 ,000, officially $60 ,000.

[470] And I have three grandbabies, and I'm just trying to pay my family.

[471] How do you have officially or unofficially?

[472] I don't know what's that mean.

[473] Unofficially, I have right at $55 ,000 because I just purchased a new vehicle in November.

[474] Officially is because I owe my husband about $6 ,000.

[475] dollars what how do you owe your husband your ex -husband or your husband no sir my husband we've been married 17 years been together 20 readers digest version is the way I was raised and past relationships I do not depend on anyone financially how's that working for you that obviously sucks yeah it's a terrible way to live it's a horrible plan absolutely I I agree.

[476] I just can't get myself to, and my husband doesn't complain.

[477] He doesn't try to push me. You know, he always said, don't worry about it, but I kind of use him.

[478] He's pretty tolerant.

[479] We're terrified of you.

[480] He must be scared of you.

[481] Hey, Tammy, we can give you all the math and all the professional guidance and all that, but you're going to have to have a heart change.

[482] This thing's just going to crash.

[483] And you see it happening right in front of your eyes.

[484] You can't live like that.

[485] I do, and that's the reason why I'm struggling with, I trying to put all I can into my 401K, but then at the, again, trying to step out of my comfort zone to be able to let my husband help me more.

[486] You missed the point.

[487] Did you go buy a $50 ,000 car?

[488] No, sir.

[489] I only pay $49 for it.

[490] Well played, Tammy.

[491] Well played.

[492] Tammy.

[493] Why?

[494] Why?

[495] Why would you buy a $49 ,000 depreciating asset and call us and ask us why you're living paycheck to paycheck?

[496] I can tell you why you're living paycheck to paycheck.

[497] The stupidity is sitting on your driveway.

[498] It's got four tires.

[499] And that, by the way, a high five.

[500] That was a fantastic answer.

[501] That was a remarkable.

[502] Great answer.

[503] So here's what I'll tell you.

[504] Okay.

[505] The data that we know from 30 years of helping folks with their money is that almost no one.

[506] succeeds relationally in their marriage and succeeds financially towards wealth building that does not combine their lives with their husband.

[507] So I'm going to strongly beg you to consider dealing with the emotions of the past betrayals, dealing with the times that people stepped on you that caused you to take this stance and say, I can trust this man and I'm married to.

[508] he's my guy he's my husband he's safe and we're going to sit down together and combine our income and combine our debts and combine our assets and we're going to be what the preacher said and now you are one because you're going to struggle financially and it hurts your relationship too you're going to act like it doesn't and you're going to try to tell me it didn't but you're wrong It does.

[509] No, you're correct.

[510] You're correct.

[511] And then that's going to also then line you up and you're going to have to go, oh, I made a mistake last November.

[512] I put our family $50 ,000 in debt that we couldn't afford.

[513] And I'm going to have to sell the car and get rid of the problem that I caused because it's a problem.

[514] And then we're going to sit down together and we're going to lay out a budget and we're going to start dreaming about how we're going to 40 years from now, be sitting on the problem.

[515] front porch multi -millionaires together that's what i want for you that's a different thing than you called about though yes it is because what does he make uh depending on the year about 120 what do you make a year uh depending on the year about 40 to 50 okay so you got 200 000 almost household income give or take yes and we have no mortgage that puts you that put you You've got no mortgage and you've got a car you can't afford.

[516] He probably has a pile of money.

[517] He does.

[518] He's very good with his money.

[519] Yeah.

[520] So our money.

[521] So then the two of you need to start talking.

[522] Do we really want to keep this car?

[523] If we do, we need to ride a check and pay it off.

[524] Or I need to say, I need to sell it because I shouldn't have bought it, one of the two.

[525] But you trying to live like a roommate on $40 ,000 a year and then calling me up while he's making $140 and going, I don't know how I can get, how I can prosper.

[526] Well, the way you can prosper is the two of you.

[527] combine your lives properly, and it will cause you to prosper.

[528] But that's you admitting that you don't have all the answers and all the strength and all the crap by yourself.

[529] And by the way, I'm a much better person when I'm combined with Sharon.

[530] And by the way, she's a much better person when she's combined with me. I don't know about that.

[531] Yeah, everyone knows that.

[532] Everyone knows that.

[533] Now, we're better because, you know, you bring different strengths and weaknesses in, And when you combine them, you get this beautiful, beautiful orchestra that's a synergy.

[534] And Larry Burkett used to say, if two people just a lot get married, one of you is unnecessary.

[535] So that these opposites attract, and you plug into that.

[536] And so Tammy, my wife, Sharon, has not worked outside the home in 40 years.

[537] She's not earned any income, with the exception of selling some clothes at the consignment sale closed place.

[538] But other than that, she's not earned any income.

[539] But guess what?

[540] She has a fabulous income because we have a fabulous income.

[541] And it's our income.

[542] It's not Dave's income and Sharon's income.

[543] It's our income.

[544] And she has a great life and I have a great life.

[545] And part of the reasons I have a great life is cause of her.

[546] And so I have, you know, I'm not going to allow her.

[547] I wouldn't allow.

[548] That's not the right word.

[549] I wouldn't want for her and she wouldn't want for me to be living standalone siloed lives inside the same house.

[550] I wonder what it would be like if she asked her husband, would you forgive that $5 ,000 debt?

[551] I bet he would say, I already have, right?

[552] I already have.

[553] I bet she's the one carrying.

[554] I bet she's carrying the debt.

[555] I'll pay you back.

[556] I'm paying you back.

[557] Because she's the one.

[558] I bet he's care less.

[559] He's not, he's not, he's standing over there.

[560] He's going to be so happy.

[561] Sammy, when you do this, he's going to really love Dave Ramsey and John Deloney because he's, because we're the guys who finally talking to.

[562] He gets his wife.

[563] He's got his wife, yeah.

[564] Yeah.

[565] Please consider that.

[566] And by the way, if you combine everything and it goes horribly, you can separate it again later.

[567] But hey, you people...

[568] It's not going to go horribly.

[569] It works.

[570] Folks listening who are in the top 5 to 10 % of earners on planet Earth, making $200 ,000 a year, living paycheck to paycheck.

[571] It's probably not the money.

[572] That's the issue.

[573] Amen.

[574] It's the mirror.

[575] This is The Ramsey Show.

[576] Well, it's back and it's almost sold out.

[577] the live like no one else cruise yep the ramsay personalities we've got the entire ship on a holland america cruise line and it's going to be absolutely incredible seven days at sea march 22nd through the 29th of 2025 about a year from now and if you're on baby step four and above we invite you to join us now if you're on baby step two you should not be spending money on something like this you ought to be getting your debt paid off you can come on another one of these when we do it again later.

[578] We're going to Turks and Caicos.

[579] We're going to St. Thomas, San Juan, the Bahamas.

[580] The VIP upgrades are already sold out.

[581] Most of the suites are sold out.

[582] In fact, many of the cabin types are completely sold out.

[583] So if you're trying to get your pick of a cabin, you need to go ahead, like an ocean view.

[584] You need to get your deposit in like now, because we're going to completely sell this thing out.

[585] And then what will happen is if somebody drops out, you can upgrade your cabin, that kind of stuff as you go along.

[586] But get your, you know, get your foot in the door because it's about to be gone.

[587] Stephen Curtis Chapman with Grammy Award winner, 67 or 69 Dove Awards, whatever.

[588] Our friend is going to be with us, a world -class artist.

[589] Manit Shahan from the Food Channel.

[590] And a fabulous chef, world -class chef is going to be doing some cooking lessons with us and hanging out with us.

[591] Dana Carter from Strawberry Wine, one of our great Nashville names is going to be with us as well.

[592] And it's going to be a lot of fun.

[593] Of course, we'll all, Dr. John, Rachel, Cruz, George Camel, everybody, Ken Coleman, Jade Washall, me, we're all going to be there.

[594] We're all going to be all of us for seven days doing events all through the cruise.

[595] We'll be hanging out with you.

[596] We're going to be doing stuff.

[597] We've got all kinds of different things planned.

[598] And if you want to book your cabin, go to ramsysolutions .com slash cruise.

[599] cruise, this is not a one of these cheap cruises.

[600] This is not like Walmart on the seas.

[601] Okay, this is like Holland America's class thing.

[602] This is good stuff.

[603] Walmart on the seas.

[604] Well, I mean, they do.

[605] Some of those things are seriously nasty, and the humans on them sometimes are nasty.

[606] But this is all Ramsey.

[607] It's 100%.

[608] There won't be anyone else on the ship except our folk.

[609] So you're going to be the live like no one else cruise.

[610] Again, it's in March 22 through 29, 2025 next March, but the tickets are almost gone.

[611] Ramsey Solutions .com slash cruise.

[612] Kyle is with us.

[613] Kyle is in Des Moines, Iowa.

[614] Hi, Kyle.

[615] How are you?

[616] Good afternoon, guys.

[617] How are you?

[618] Better than I deserve.

[619] How can I help?

[620] Yeah, so I'm upside down on a vehicle.

[621] I know I need to sell it.

[622] I'm just kind of wondering what steps I should take.

[623] Okay.

[624] What do you owe on it?

[625] So I owe just a little over 26.

[626] Okay.

[627] And what is it worth?

[628] So Kelly Blue Book, selling it private, it's worth 12.

[629] Okay.

[630] So you had another one that was upside down.

[631] How many old cars did you roll into this one?

[632] You must have rolled some negative into this one, right?

[633] No, actually, just tons of miles put on it.

[634] Uh, we, me and my partner, we, uh, had a baby and then the vehicle turned into more than what we were expecting it to be and.

[635] Okay.

[636] So how many miles does it have on it?

[637] Uh, 112.

[638] Okay.

[639] What is it?

[640] What kind of?

[641] Uh, Kia Sorrento.

[642] Okay.

[643] Wow.

[644] Ah.

[645] That sucker fell off a cliff, man. Yeah.

[646] Yeah.

[647] I'm disappointed in the decision.

[648] to buy it well and the miles just destroyed the decision so um yeah yeah selling it is not really going to help you yeah see that's um I called in like two weeks ago and that was the recommendation that got was to sell it so I went home and I was like yeah we're gonna sell this thing and I was like I think I think you're just going to have to pay it off yeah okay so what do you make what's your household income um about 70k and the the only debt that I have I have just shy of 12k in our personal loan and then um 26 ,000 on a car.

[649] What's that?

[650] And then 26 ,000 on a car?

[651] Yep, yeah.

[652] And you have a baby that you're responsible for, but you're not married?

[653] Uh, correct.

[654] Okay.

[655] I actually have four kids total, but.

[656] At the same place with the same lady?

[657] Um, we have one child together.

[658] she had one in a previous relationship and then I have two children and from a previous relationship that are with their mom primarily uh we split one week with me one week with them with her okay um so we're like we kind of need third row for one week but then we don't for the other it's yeah i think we got bigger problems with third row yeah you get a lot of chaos in your life brother.

[659] What do you do for living?

[660] Fabricator, welder.

[661] Okay.

[662] You might be entering a season.

[663] How much of that 70s going to child support?

[664] Zero, knock on wood.

[665] What do you mean?

[666] We just shared custody.

[667] I take care of them when they're with me. She takes care of them when they're with her.

[668] Is that certified by a court?

[669] or y 'all just high five each other okay no no that's all court ordered you may have to enter into a season where you make the arrangements with the women in your life that you're going to be having to work two or three jobs because you got a mess to clean up man yeah you got so much chaos in your life dude and you need 30 if you had $36 ,000 you'd have no debt and an old car and you'd be okay right so you're $36 ,000 away from a huge relief point so how fast can we come up with $36 ,000 working overtime one year.

[670] Yeah, that's what, is that a question you're asking?

[671] No, that's a statement.

[672] That's what we're telling you.

[673] That's a statement.

[674] Yeah, yeah.

[675] Yeah, I think, I think because the good news is you're a welder and, man, you know you can get work.

[676] Yeah, for sure.

[677] Yeah, I know you can get work.

[678] They're desperate for your work.

[679] I want you to be so tired in October of this year that you don't know what day it is because you've been working so hard, okay?

[680] Yeah, and then, but then you're going to, but then you're going to be free for the rest of your life because you never enter into this again we never buy a car on payments so we never end up in this again if we run one if we run the value down it'll least be on something it's paid for and I want you to marry mama and let's wrap this thing upright and let's start to get some peace in our house you got too much chaos too much coming to going too much over here fingers crossed over here hope this works out over here you got to start like putting some of these variables in concrete brother so you can have some peace in your life yeah let's work on stability that's work on our marriage, work on a relationship.

[681] It'll be good for the kids.

[682] It's good for everybody, man. Yeah.

[683] But I, for a short period of time, I'd turn up the heat on the income.

[684] And you guys, I mean, sit down with your girlfriend.

[685] Now she's going to be your wife, according to John.

[686] And so you get those two things working.

[687] And then you say, all right, we're going to be on a written budget.

[688] We're going to be on beans and rice.

[689] We're going to knock this out as fast as we possibly can.

[690] Because really, if you sell the car, you've got almost as much debt left.

[691] I mean, it doesn't really.

[692] Damn, it doesn't get rid of the debt.

[693] If you owe 22 on it, I mean, if it was worth 22 when you owed 26, then I would sell it.

[694] Because then you only got to clean up four.

[695] But you still got 14.

[696] Plus you need to get $10 ,000 to buy another car.

[697] Yeah, and you're screwed up.

[698] So, yeah, you might as well drive the stupid thing, and let's just beat the snot out of this debt, the $12 ,000 and the $26 ,000, which is $38 ,000.

[699] And, you know, you're going to go get your life back is what we're saying.

[700] but this is the result of the different all the personal chaos that while you were in between everything here you jumped in and as you said you said it made a bad decision on this car and that's what took you there so that's a good good way to talk it through hey man thanks for the call we can help you further you call us anytime it's what we do open phones at triple eight 825 5225 You jump in.

[701] We'll talk about your life and your money.

[702] So, yeah, the upside down on a car, if you're $4 ,000 upside down and you owe 26, the way you handle that, folks, is you would borrow that from your local credit union, or you talk to the company that has the car loan, see if they'll let you sell the car for what it's worth, sign a note for the difference, or, again, like we just said, you know, you work like crazy, and you come up with the hole that you're in the amount that you're upside down in.

[703] That's your three things you can do.

[704] to get out this is the ramsie show dr john deloney ramsay personality number one best -selling author of building a non -anxious life is my co -host today jamie is in tampa florida hi jamie how are you hey dave how's it better than i deserve what's up good i am calling because i'm getting sued by capital one after being out of work from a real heart attack um so just trying to figure out where i go from here and what the next step is i've been following the steve rambi planned since January and it's kind of been all in.

[705] So just kind of wondering what I do from here because that wasn't the plan.

[706] It was in collections and now.

[707] Okay.

[708] Can you speak directly into your phone?

[709] You're kind of muffled.

[710] Sorry about that.

[711] Is this better?

[712] That's a little better.

[713] Yeah.

[714] How old are you?

[715] You had a heart attack?

[716] Yeah.

[717] So I was 37.

[718] I'm now 39.

[719] I had a spontaneous coronary artery dissection.

[720] They don't know why it happened, how it happened, how to prevent another one.

[721] I just, yeah, it just happened.

[722] Two years ago?

[723] Yep.

[724] So what has been your work history since the heart attack?

[725] So when I was, when I had the heart attack, I was part -time and in school with 43 days left of becoming a respiratory therapist.

[726] So I was out of work for two months and then returned and got COVID and then was out for another 14 days.

[727] So during my heart attack, I had no income coming in whatsoever.

[728] And then.

[729] Two years ago.

[730] Yeah.

[731] Yeah, so it took me about seven months where I could get back financially stable enough to even take my test because I have to take soon.

[732] They're expensive.

[733] And then I started working as an RT March of last year and finally got to the point of not robbing Peter to pay Paul and going to Amscot every week to pay the bills as it's probably August of last year.

[734] You're single?

[735] So in the process of getting divorced from a very toxic person.

[736] Wow.

[737] You've had a run.

[738] I haven't followed yet, but it's just been a...

[739] So what are you making now?

[740] So I would say averaging probably about $6K a month with overtime and on -call pay.

[741] $6 ,000 a month.

[742] And what do you owe capital one?

[743] So there's two cards, $9 ,060 and $191 .48.

[744] Okay, $18 ,000.

[745] Yes.

[746] Okay.

[747] All right.

[748] Wow.

[749] Wow, I'm sorry for everything you've been through.

[750] Thank you.

[751] Let's be very clear, though, that Capital One is not suing you because you had a heart attack and weren't able to work for two months.

[752] They're suing you because the two years following the heart attack, you've not been able to keep enough work to feed yourself and pay the payments or pay something towards it.

[753] Yes.

[754] You paid them nothing in.

[755] And you paid them nothing for, what, three, four years now?

[756] So August of 2022 was my last payment.

[757] So it got to the point where I just was like, you know what?

[758] I need to see my four walls and my three kids fed. And not worried about capital one.

[759] Yeah.

[760] And your husband was contributing nothing.

[761] So he doesn't have a high -paying job.

[762] He makes about $16 an hour at the time.

[763] I mean, he was helping as much as he could, but it wasn't enough to sustain what he needed in, you know, a five -person family.

[764] Okay.

[765] Have they given you a court date?

[766] Yeah, so May 22nd is the date of that position.

[767] May 22nd is the court date?

[768] Mm -hmm.

[769] Okay.

[770] All right.

[771] I assume you don't have any money.

[772] So right now I have my $1 ,000 emergency fund.

[773] And I've stopped paying anything extra.

[774] because I was going hard.

[775] I was paying about $2 ,000 off in debt since January every single month.

[776] So my paycheck coming up on Friday will be about $3 ,400.

[777] I've got $2 ,500 in the bank and then another $1 ,000.

[778] Okay.

[779] But that doesn't even if you know what's going to happen, it's not as scary as the unknown.

[780] So I'll walk you through what's going to happen, okay?

[781] regardless of what we do right now short of filing bankruptcy which you're not bankruptcy you wouldn't do that um you're going to lose the lawsuit on the 22nd of May because the lawsuit is not about anything except did you pay a bill you promised to pay and the answer is no you did not regardless of the reason okay right there is no heart attack clause in these things so So it's just, did you pay it?

[782] The answer is no judgment.

[783] Okay?

[784] So they're going to win a judgment against you for $18 ,000 plus attorney's fees on the 22nd in just a couple of weeks.

[785] So that's already happened.

[786] That was last month that they sent me paperwork saying that there was judgment against me. The one on the 22nd now is a deposition where they want all of my financial information, last three years of tax returns, my income for the last year, all my bank's statements all of that yeah that's an you're that's an execution on the judgment then okay pretty much feel like it's an execution on me uh okay the the the good news is is that now you have a good income flowing for the first time in this story and it's just started happening recently and you like you said you got where you're not paying peter to pay paul so the only option you've got two options technically um that i can that i can think of okay off the top of my head right here one is is that you begin to negotiate a payment plan with them actually there's three options okay one is you begin to negotiate a payment plan with them is there anywhere you could get five thousand dollars no i already tried to get a loan from mid florida credit union they denied me. My credit's just so bad at this.

[787] I'm sure.

[788] I mean, I have an amp's got $500 .00 for the home that.

[789] I don't think that I can get Do you have anything you could sell?

[790] I mean, other than my car that I've got $1 ,200 left on it, but you've got a check engine light and about ready to die and, you know, looking forward to being able to fix that.

[791] Yeah.

[792] So what you're, you know, so one thing you could do is you could try to settle it for a lump sum.

[793] That would actually be the cleanest and they probably will take about 5K to settle this and go away.

[794] But that's not an option because we just talk through that.

[795] So that's one option.

[796] That one's on the side.

[797] That would be cool, though.

[798] That would be very cool.

[799] The second one is to work out a payment plan with them and they're very difficult on that.

[800] The third one is bankruptcy.

[801] And bankruptcy stops everything, dead in its tracks.

[802] And you can file a chapter 13 bankruptcy, which makes them accept a payment.

[803] plan they won't have a choice the bankruptcy court tells them what it is and they get pennies on the dollar they don't even get a hundred cents on the dollar so if you threaten them with a chapter 13 bankruptcy they're better off they're better off to take a payment plan with you than than for you to force one through a chapter 13 bankruptcy on them and so i i would like to see you cut a payment plan with them it's better for you and it's better for them okay um but there's no point in you going through, letting them go through your underwear drawer on the 22nd, because all they're doing is a fishing expedition trying to find money and line up whether they can garnish you your wages in Florida.

[804] I don't know how that stands.

[805] I don't know the law there, but they're trying to find something they can get their hands around your throat.

[806] That's all this is.

[807] This is not a, it's not a criminal thing.

[808] It's a deposition searching for income and assets.

[809] and it's there to hassle you as to scare you, which it's already doing those two things.

[810] Yeah, I feel like I can't go to the grocery store and buy groceries at this point.

[811] Yeah.

[812] Well, you go buy anything you need to buy, take care of your family.

[813] Don't worry about these characters because they may end up getting nothing if you end up being forced by them into a BK.

[814] But truthfully, the best thing that could have happened is if you had been working on this six months ago or even a year ago, working on something to get them cleared out before it got this far.

[815] By the time it gets this far, your options and any negotiating power you've got is very weak because all you can do is threaten bankruptcy, which is, you know, I threaten to shoot myself in the foot, right?

[816] And so, but that's what you can do there.

[817] I'll tell you what, let's do this.

[818] I'm going to, I'm going to put you on hold.

[819] I'm going to hook you up with one of our Ramsey coaches, and maybe they can help you with the negotiation with these guys.

[820] Hopefully they can keep you out of bankruptcy by getting you on a payment plan.

[821] That's what I want to do.

[822] But before they come and start taking your income and you're not able to feed your kids, they're going to force you into a bankruptcy before they do that.

[823] So hopefully they won't take it that far, but these characters, I don't know.

[824] But you're not dealing with it for two years is how this came up and bit you.

[825] It wasn't the heart attack two years ago.

[826] It was you're not dealing with it after that.

[827] Dr. John Deloney -Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[828] Today's question of the day comes from Samantha in California.

[829] All right.

[830] Samantha asks, I live with my boyfriend and we have two children together.

[831] I'm 36 and I've been with him since I was 19 and he was 35.

[832] I have a degree but never worked, never made any money and have no savings.

[833] I own nothing.

[834] Okay.

[835] I have a debit card to his account He makes over a million dollars a year And refuses to get married What should I do?

[836] Make him pay me a monthly salary That I pay taxes on Go get a job Which he would hate I have only recently understood the situation I am in As I guess I was too busy caring for the kids To see what a mess this is Any advice would be appreciated I don't do well I can feel it on you with men that don't take care of their families I don't do well with jerks like this so all right let's be kind to children involved I'll just say this is my sister this is one of my close friends I would sit with an attorney and find out what the common law rules are instead of California and I would get as far away from this toxic trash as possible and some of this bagillionaire's money will become yours because you've raised his kids and dating care of his home.

[837] Yeah, there's child support at a minimum.

[838] There's probably palimony.

[839] Let's see.

[840] You can't get him to marry you.

[841] You've been there, you've been there 17 years, is that it?

[842] Get him to pay you a monthly salary.

[843] That's not going to work.

[844] No. By the way, get a job, which he would hate at this point.

[845] I don't care what he thinks.

[846] Yeah.

[847] He's not a person of character.

[848] I don't care.

[849] He didn't get a vote.

[850] 17 years.

[851] He makes a million dollars a year.

[852] You've been there 17 years.

[853] So here's the likelihood.

[854] The likelihood is John that she's not going to take our advice.

[855] No, not at all.

[856] Because you've known for a long time, even though you act like you didn't, what you should be doing.

[857] And you've known for a long time.

[858] This whole thing was jacked up.

[859] and you've done nothing about it.

[860] And so I doubt you're going to do anything about it now.

[861] And that's really sad because what that tells me is that at a minimum you've been emotionally abused.

[862] At a minimum.

[863] Because you're now functioning in domestic violence symptoms because you're not dealing with the obvious thing that's in front of you because you feel trapped.

[864] That's the symptom of a domestic violence, whether it's emotional violence or whether it's physical violence.

[865] We've gotten really accustomed to this really fancy life, and that's going to go away.

[866] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[867] And part of it is I suspect there's a lot of that million dollars a year is going to come to her.

[868] I agree.

[869] In California.

[870] I don't know.

[871] I'm not an attorney.

[872] I think I'm with you.

[873] So what would I do?

[874] If I could get you to do what I don't think you're going to do, I agree with John, I would see an attorney about your rights.

[875] I would sit down with Mr. Moneybags and say, we're either getting married, and that's after we do some counseling to.

[876] where I can trust you again because I don't trust you right now or I'm leaving me and the kids are leaving and when we leave we're going to file for child support and palimony and that's going to according to my attorney it's going to cost you X this one sentence I've only recently understood the situation I am in as I guess I was too busy caring for the kids to see what a mess oh crap it's not well that makes me think she discovered the other girlfriends and she now realizes oh I thought we I thought we're reading between the letters okay he was 35 hooked up with a 19 year old had two of her kids they're now 17 18 um they're leaving the house and now she's finding oh I wasn't the only one I'm not the only one and now I got because I'm like a million dollars and I do whatever I want to do right whenever whoever I want to do so stupid yeah you're your your what a cow your mind is even darker than mine the coward coward coward that's exactly right you're exactly right that's what's going cowardly man of only reason yes so the situation is your uh you have built a life in a house of cards once again these are the things that happens when you shake shack up instead of being married had you been married there would have been a whole different set of situation legal protections legal protections and other things as well so yeah um but now you're you know you're reaching it obscure laws which they are palimony laws are much more obscure so yeah i would check on the i would check on your legal rights and i didn't think about these dead gum kids are they're they're teenagers at a minimum yeah so yeah okay and men take care of your families take care of your families stop look around dude look around another car another sale are you freaking kidding me at the end of your life is this is this yeah so stupid how's this going to go for you you can have an empty hospital bedroom Dan is in Philadelphia hi Dan how are you doing pretty good how are you doing better than we deserve how can we help well my company that I work for I've been with them for a little over four years they have they let everyone go about month and a half ago.

[877] They're getting liquidated.

[878] Another company is going to be getting all of their customers and such.

[879] It's a solar company.

[880] I worked closely with the executives, and they kept only me on, and the company that's coming in was supposed to call everyone that hasn't happened.

[881] I've been applying and haven't been able to find a job yet, but...

[882] So are you being paid still?

[883] I am being paid still.

[884] Okay, but what you're saying is the fuses burning.

[885] It's not for long.

[886] Exactly.

[887] I make $85 ,000 a year.

[888] And what do you do?

[889] What's your actual job title?

[890] Executive assistant.

[891] So it's just basically I work for the COO and the CEO, and I also try to find problems that in the operations way to make things flow smoother.

[892] In the last year, I saved the company about.

[893] $320 ,000 just in different processes that could have been fine -tuned.

[894] So how long have you been looking?

[895] I've been looking for about two and a half weeks now.

[896] Okay, good.

[897] Yeah, you've got to turn that on full -time.

[898] That's your whole thing.

[899] Yeah.

[900] And it's not just filling out job applications, okay?

[901] That doesn't work.

[902] You've got to start thinking about who you know at a company where you'd like to work.

[903] And then start figuring out what postings that job has for jobs that company.

[904] has and get your friend to get you an interview okay that's how that's how people really get jobs in the real world this idea of filling out 5 ,000 applications by electronic you know LinkedIn bullcrap that does not work because you get nobody reads all those applications something has to happen to get those things pulled out of the stack and that's how you really land a job so your your job is not filling out applications your job is to get your foot in the door somewhere okay that's the difference so ken coleman ramsay personality writes about all of this stuff his book the one that you need to read is called proximity principle i'm going to send you a copy of it right now today okay i actually just bought that uh about a month ago have you read it i have not okay well this would be the day it's upon you my friend the other portion of that i've I've been going for the baby steps.

[905] I'm in Baby Step 2.

[906] I want to, I'm assuming it's smart for me to hold back and not.

[907] Don't do anything right now.

[908] Polly up cash.

[909] You're in the middle of a hurricane.

[910] You're in the middle of a hurricane.

[911] You're in a crisis.

[912] Pile up cash.

[913] Every check they give you, put it all in an account and don't touch it.

[914] I want you eating beans and rice.

[915] Are you married?

[916] Yes, and we have three kids and one on the way.

[917] Does your wife work outside the home?

[918] No. Okay.

[919] All right.

[920] So you really pile up cash, pile up cash, pile up cash.

[921] Stop your 401k.

[922] Stop everything.

[923] Treat this like you had to have $10 ,000 to survive because you do.

[924] The bigger pile of cash you've got, the better you're going to have confidence when you're interviewing.

[925] The more broke you are when you interview for the next thing, the more desperate you sound.

[926] And the less employable you are because desperate people, they got to stink on them, man. And so I want you less desperate.

[927] I want you getting after it.

[928] Yeah, you need to turn this up wide open, like your full -time job is you right now.

[929] Get it.

[930] This is The Ramsey Show.

[931] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[932] Thank you for joining us, America.

[933] We're glad you are here.

[934] Open phones here at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -2 -5.

[935] Thanks for jumping in.

[936] We appreciate you hanging out with us.

[937] Jamal is with us in Boston to start off this particular hour.

[938] Hey, Jamal, how are you?

[939] Hi, how are you, Vangy?

[940] Better than we deserve.

[941] How can we help?

[942] So I basically got out of the debt a few, four, five months ago.

[943] Good.

[944] And kind of been aimless with all things to you, by the way, you were the kickstart, so I just want to give my gratitude to you.

[945] I really appreciate that from you, from posting your videos and stuff.

[946] So thank you.

[947] So from there and now, I'm kind of at this place where I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing now.

[948] I'm at my job still, but at the same time, I want to see how else I can make other money or how can I, you know, take the next steps to build left.

[949] So I'm kind of just, like, confused and where I'm supposed to go next.

[950] Okay.

[951] So you just got some basic information about getting out of debt from a few YouTube things, but you've not really heard the whole process.

[952] Is that what you're saying?

[953] Yes.

[954] Okay.

[955] Well, the whole process we've designed is around the basic common sense principles and the ideas that financial planners have taught for years.

[956] And we just put them in an order of attack.

[957] We call that the baby steps.

[958] You probably did hear that.

[959] I heard the baby steps.

[960] Yes.

[961] Okay, baby step one is save $1 ,000.

[962] Do you have $1 ,000?

[963] Yes.

[964] Okay, two is debt -free everything but the house.

[965] You already told me you did that one, right?

[966] Correct.

[967] Then your next goal is to make sure you have a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

[968] How much do you have in savings?

[969] $10 ,000.

[970] Okay, and what do you make?

[971] I make around $65K to $70 ,000.

[972] Okay.

[973] It's not a bad.

[974] emergency fund all right if we wanted to call that our emergency fund fine if you want to spoof it up and put another 5k in there you can but that's not to be touched for anything except emergencies and probably not even then that's your that's the pad between you and life if you're going to buy something you have to save up and pay for it in a separate account okay okay now we're debt free we've got ten thousand dollars dude you're way ahead of most people already, way to go.

[975] Now we go to baby step four, which is say 15 % of your income into retirement plans, Roth IRAs, Roth 401Ks with a match if you've got that at work, and I want you putting 15 % around.

[976] You said you make 60, is that what you said?

[977] Yeah, around 60 is 70.

[978] Okay, that'd be $9 ,000 a year then.

[979] Okay.

[980] Okay, or about, what, 700 bucks a month, $750?

[981] 50 bucks a month, right?

[982] It should be coming out of your check some way or another going into retirement.

[983] I take it you're single and not and don't have kids.

[984] Did I miss something?

[985] No, I'm 28.

[986] I live with my mom and kind of that's, that's what was the help that kind of, you know, gave me the financial ability to get out of debt.

[987] A little 70K.

[988] Good.

[989] Then, yeah, then I want to, you know, I want to start putting 9 ,000 away for retirement.

[990] I also want to start saving some money to get out on my own.

[991] okay because you're now able to you make money you don't have any payments right so you need to get out on your own and set yourself up a life and um you know go about uh growing your career growing yourself who you're going to be where what what changes are we going to make you talked about maybe changing jobs that kind of stuff all of that and you're going to use some of your money to do all of that um but you don't need to jump just take your time move move careful when you move out you don't have to rush out unless or how to is on fire.

[992] You don't have to run out.

[993] So unless there's something really bad going on, you don't have to run out.

[994] But you do need to make a plan by September.

[995] You need to be out of there and you need to figure out what your next steps are in your career and just systematically lay down because what happens and what you're discovering already in this process is, and John, this is so important for people to grasp, I think, that where there is no vision, the people perish.

[996] And most people live hand to mouth because they don't look past.

[997] Friday and to Jamal's credit he's looked way past Friday now and he started to think long term so long term with my career long term with my living situation long term with my debt long term with my wealth building and investing and when you start thinking out there five 10 years out with your decision making you make much better decisions yeah and it's called maturing that's i'm going to say it's maturing and so sometimes maturing doesn't make math sense here's an example I live with my 28 -year -old mom.

[998] I don't have to pay rent ever.

[999] You need to get out on your own and get your own place.

[1000] There's some other muscles you're going to develop and there's some maturing that you need to do, some skills you've got to develop.

[1001] You've got to learn how to be a neighbor.

[1002] You've got to learn how to deal with roommates, whatever it is.

[1003] But I can see when you get done with all this, you think, well, just keep piling this money away.

[1004] Well, you've got to start spending some of this money now and you've got to start creating a life that you actually want to live in, right?

[1005] Exactly.

[1006] Exactly.

[1007] And so, you know, really, I mean, anytime you're in, investing money into yourself, whether that's moving out on your own, taking a class to move to a different career.

[1008] All of those things are short -term pain for long -term gain.

[1009] And that one definition of maturity, emotional maturity, spiritual maturity, is the ability to delay pleasure.

[1010] What did Hartlow say this morning that was so good?

[1011] It was something along those lines that people are able to deal with short -term pain for long -term vision.

[1012] He had a great way of saying, and I don't remember what it was, James, but it's that same sentiment that, man, I have to make some choices to not be happy right this second so that I can really, really, truly have deep joy down the road.

[1013] No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness.

[1014] And so nothing that we do that's good for the long, very few things that we do that's good for the long term feels great at the present.

[1015] And if all you do is work on the present, your child, and all of your long -term starts to deteriorate.

[1016] Right.

[1017] Because you spend all your money on Friday and Saturday night, and you go back Monday morning, you're broke again, and you start the cycle over again.

[1018] That's thank God it's Friday, oh God, it's Monday.

[1019] That's the opposite of having a vision.

[1020] And to Jamal's credit, he's moving away from that towards long -term thinking.

[1021] And the thing is, Jamal, it needs to happen in every single compartment department area of your life.

[1022] Yes, and feelings are a terrible.

[1023] GPS system.

[1024] I did not feel like exercising this morning.

[1025] I didn't feel like eating a healthy breakfast this morning.

[1026] I didn't feel like going around and chasing my kids down so I could hug every one of them.

[1027] I just wanted to put my headphones in and go to work.

[1028] You do those things because they're right and they have a long -term benefit, right?

[1029] Well, that's discipline.

[1030] That's right.

[1031] That's where it comes from.

[1032] It comes from, I'm willing to give up some pain now for gain later.

[1033] Right.

[1034] No pain, no gain.

[1035] All that stuff, right?

[1036] And it all falls together.

[1037] But this all works in every area of our lives, and, you know, you're going to see everything start to blossom the more that you do that.

[1038] Your relationships, you're just going to be much more eligible on the dating scene by good women, because good women don't want to hang with a guy who thinks, thank God it's Friday, oh God, it's Monday, and lives with his mom.

[1039] That's not eligibility right there.

[1040] It's the opposite.

[1041] And so you're moving in a great direction.

[1042] and I mean you can get girls but you can't get women and there's a different thing it's a whole different thing man so that it's a long -term thinking process and that's a beautiful thing where you are son I'm so happy to talk about you man call us anytime this is the ramsay show dr. John Deloney ramsay personality is my co -host today thank you for joining us America we're glad you are with us the best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a plan.

[1043] Your plan, you decide what you want to put in it, and then you stick to the plan that you created.

[1044] Isn't that cool?

[1045] So if it's punishing you, you're punishing you.

[1046] If it's letting you off the hook, you're letting you off the hook.

[1047] It's your plan.

[1048] You give every dollar of your income an assignment before the month begins, and for those of you that are married, you agree on it with your spouse.

[1049] Every dollar, the world's best budgeting app, makes it simple to plan your spending, track expenses, save for what matters, all in an easy to use app fits right into your busy lifestyle, keep a pulse on your spending and make the progress on your money goals with every dollar.

[1050] You can download every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play today.

[1051] You can also do it online at every dollar .com for your desktop.

[1052] Check it out.

[1053] Eric is with us in Chicago.

[1054] Hi, Eric.

[1055] Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

[1056] Hi, Dave.

[1057] Thanks for taking my call.

[1058] Long -time listener.

[1059] My dad listened to it when I was a child in the car, and I just never stopped.

[1060] Wow.

[1061] So my question, I'm 27, and I'm planning on going to anesthesia school.

[1062] I'm currently an ICU nurse, and I'm married, and I'm trying to decide whether or not I should use the money that I've saved up, or if I should use part of it and take out some loan because of the large expense of this school, similar to medical school.

[1063] Okay.

[1064] If you take out the loan, it doesn't change the expense.

[1065] Not at none at all.

[1066] But I cannot work for three years or 36 straight months for this due to the 50 to 60 hours a week of clinicals and schooling in the classroom time.

[1067] But the way you pose the question, it sounds like you've got the money to cover that.

[1068] I currently have $133 ,000 in cash.

[1069] As far as I can tell, most schools range between 100 and 130 ,000 for the 36 months.

[1070] So what's your plan for eating?

[1071] Right.

[1072] So I am married.

[1073] My wife is a teacher, and then we have a baby on the way here next month.

[1074] She makes about $50 ,000 a year.

[1075] We have no debt.

[1076] I was fortunate I was able to graduate from nursing school with no debt.

[1077] When do you start anesthesiology school?

[1078] So in June, I'm on a wait list, or it would be next year around this time.

[1079] Okay.

[1080] So if you had another year to save, you'd have a lot more.

[1081] That's correct, because currently we bought less house than we needed to.

[1082] Our current take home pays about $103 ,000, and the mortgages is about $12 ,300 to $1 ,300 with insurance.

[1083] Okay.

[1084] I would lay out a plan where we can live on her income and pay cash for this.

[1085] Okay.

[1086] Currently, the way I've got it, I used it all, I use it every month, and I was used to kind of project what it would be like, assuming her pay stays the same.

[1087] You know, it would be doable, but it would be kind of tight.

[1088] Oh, well, because if I used everything.

[1089] You're getting an anesthesiology degree where you're going to make $300 ,000 a year for the rest of your life.

[1090] Oh, darn, you have to pay a price to do that.

[1091] Oh, darn, the family's going to sacrifice for two years to do that.

[1092] But as far as like an emergency fund, that's where mine is, man. Right now you're going to school, man. You're a freaking college student again.

[1093] Okay.

[1094] No, I'm not borrowing money to create an emergency fund.

[1095] Sure.

[1096] No, I'm not borrowing money to raise your little family's lifestyle while you bust it.

[1097] Right.

[1098] No. No. You knew that for you called.

[1099] You've been listening to me since you were a kid.

[1100] Yes, for, yes.

[1101] That's what I figured the case would be.

[1102] I just didn't know just with, you know, I've been in stork mode the last several months and I want you to stay in stork mode.

[1103] Listen, I got to tell you, I think your career path is one of the best on the planet.

[1104] It's one of the top five things people can do to make a pile of money and it's very rewarding too.

[1105] Because what you're doing is excellent for the human race and, because I, you know, I can tell you, I have the pain tolerance of a three -year -old child.

[1106] I can't stand it.

[1107] So I need people that know what you're going to do around if I'm getting, I don't want to feel nothing.

[1108] Just put me out and put me out in such a way that when I wake up, my brain still works.

[1109] So this is all I want from you, man. You're awesome.

[1110] And I think you're going to make a lot of money.

[1111] It's better than an MD, I think.

[1112] I just love what you're doing.

[1113] But just do it smart, Eric.

[1114] Pay cash for it.

[1115] Okay.

[1116] Set your family up in such a way that we're paying, we're sacrificing for our future.

[1117] future, this is going to be a tough three years because you're going to be completely with your nose in the books and in the practicums and in everything else.

[1118] And you're going to be, you're going to be absorbed in that and you're going to have a new baby in the house in the process.

[1119] And you're going to be living on a lot less than you're used to living on.

[1120] It's going be a very tough three years and it's going to be completely worth it.

[1121] I mean, I can't, I can't recommend that more.

[1122] And I'm sitting on the other side of this.

[1123] Josephine was just born.

[1124] My daughter, I went back to grad school, working for them.

[1125] I mean, it was a madhouse.

[1126] And there were days that didn't feel like it was worth it.

[1127] And there was no easy path.

[1128] And man, I'm glad we sacrificed and scratched and clawed, right?

[1129] Because you never know what's going to be.

[1130] But I do have friends who have medical debt, medical school debt of some sort, and they're stuck doing managed care, 14 minutes.

[1131] And they tell me, I would love to get out of this madness, but I can't afford to.

[1132] If you come out of anesthesiology school and you owe nobody anything, Man, you're, the negotiation power you have for your next gig.

[1133] Whatever you want.

[1134] You can write your ticket.

[1135] Whatever you want, man. But if you got, if you got stupid, you know, Naviant staring down your neck, you take what you get.

[1136] Then you got to go, oh, I got to take this gig because they're going to pay off Navient, you know, because that's a lot of medical recruiters these days.

[1137] They'll write you a little signing bonus or tied to your student loan debt, right?

[1138] And no, you don't need any of that.

[1139] All I want is money.

[1140] I just want you to.

[1141] You know, pay me money and give me control of my life.

[1142] And that's stuff you'd lose in the medical field if you're not careful.

[1143] So please pay cash.

[1144] And I really would opt to start one year from June, not June.

[1145] Yeah, there'd have to be a pretty compelling reason to start right the second.

[1146] Yeah.

[1147] And, you know, and settle it up because that gives you a whole other year of ICU earnings to pile, keep your stork mode going.

[1148] But it's a different birth.

[1149] It's the birth of your future career, not your child.

[1150] but just keep piling that money, a pile on that money, a practice living on her income this year, piling up yours, and then you got the money.

[1151] It's slammed dunk.

[1152] I'm seeing if there's a cohort that starts in January and split the difference, but I love the idea of, because obviously I get, like you got a new baby and wanting to have some money in the bank.

[1153] I get that.

[1154] But, well, you're not having to write the whole 133 at once.

[1155] That's it.

[1156] That's it.

[1157] You're not going to be down to the last nickel until you're at the end.

[1158] That's right.

[1159] And so, by then the whole thing's going to have shifted anyway, probably yeah so amazing good for you brother might even get a signing bonus sign before you do your last six months and hey for people who call i think this is important thing he has had a vision of this for several years and he went into stork mode a long time ago we get people who just have this thought and they want to go do it all right the second he's been thinking about this for a while he's got 130 grand piled up yeah and so this is what this looks like yeah this is the right way to do it very very well done he's debt free he's debt free and owe anybody anything he i want a doctor that doesn't owe anybody anything that can spend time with me and isn't worried about managing a clock but worried about keeping me safe and keeping me healthy that's what I want in my life I don't want to be a medical widget I don't even know what that is I don't want to be your inventory oh I don't want to be something that's managed by you I do not want to be a medical widget yeah I know a old pastor said it was he said somewhere back in the 1960s or 70s we left the healing arts and went to the medical industry that's exactly right yeah we left the art and went to the number crunchers.

[1160] But you don't owe anybody anything and you have all this knowledge and the certifications, you can sit down and help people, and it's amazing.

[1161] Yeah, you got to, I mean, this is, it's a golden ticket.

[1162] I love your, love your path here.

[1163] It's a really, really good path.

[1164] Very well done, Eric.

[1165] Proud of you, man. Pay cash.

[1166] You knew Dave Ramsey was going to say that before you called.

[1167] It's about the only thing you can say about me that everyone has to say, whether they like me or not, I'm 100 % freaking consistent.

[1168] And you're bald.

[1169] I probably shouldn't have said that.

[1170] That was...

[1171] I'm just trying to think of another thing that everyone can agree.

[1172] You've got a firm grasp on the obvious, John Deloney.

[1173] Two PhDs, and that's what they got you, right there.

[1174] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1175] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, personality, is my co -host today.

[1176] Thank you for joining us, America.

[1177] We're so glad you are here.

[1178] Open phones at AAA 8255 -225 -2 -25.

[1179] Thanks for hanging out.

[1180] And, hey, guess what?

[1181] On the debt -free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Alan, is with us.

[1182] Hey, Alan, how are you, man?

[1183] Hey, great.

[1184] How are you guys doing?

[1185] Better than we deserve.

[1186] Where do you live?

[1187] I live in nowhere, Wisconsin, but real close to Madison.

[1188] Okay.

[1189] Very cool.

[1190] Drove like 600 miles down here to come be on the show.

[1191] So thanks for having me. Well, we're honored to have you, sir.

[1192] Thank you.

[1193] How much debt have you paid off?

[1194] A little over $30 ,000.

[1195] $30 ,000.

[1196] How long did that take you?

[1197] About four years?

[1198] give or take.

[1199] All right, good.

[1200] And your range of income during that time?

[1201] When I started, I was at 45 grand and I'm currently around 55.

[1202] Cool.

[1203] What kind of debt was the 30K?

[1204] So I had 20 grand on high interest credit card and then I had another 10 grand on my car.

[1205] Okay, cool.

[1206] So what started this whole journey thing, this Ramsey thing four years ago?

[1207] Well, I mean, well, the journey started way before that just getting into debt.

[1208] I mean, me and my ex -girlfriend at the time, she talked me into getting a high interest credit card it was like if you spent three thousand dollars in the first three months you got all these points so we're like oh we'll put all our bills on that and we'll go on a vacation and then we didn't even we didn't even hit the three grand and we didn't even pay it off so it was all downhill from there and then you know it just kind of snowballed um then once you know i was bottoming out and just super broke and just running out of ideas i was youtube and just how to get out of debt and you were one of the first ones that popped up so i started watching a couple of your videos that introduced me to the debt snowball and then uh from there i then i got hooked i was like this digestible easy enough and then i grab it hold down all your stuff and then i found out about the debt avalanche i was able to do essentially the snowball and the avalanche i got real lucky where like my highest interest rates around my lowest principal amounts so i was able to just crush it but like it was a super humbling experience i remember at the end i was paying like five six hundred bucks a month towards the car car bills and the principals weren't even going down like it was heartbreaking so So, like, you know, I ended up, I left my ex -girlfriend.

[1209] She was no good at the time.

[1210] I moved back in with my mom, which was horrible at your 30s.

[1211] But, you know, I was like, this is enough debt where it's going to follow me around my entire life if I don't do something about it.

[1212] So, you know, I got real tough and I did something about it, you know.

[1213] You were talking beans and rice.

[1214] I was beans or rice.

[1215] I couldn't afford beans and right.

[1216] You know, so, you know, but it was great.

[1217] You know, it took forever.

[1218] But, like, once I paid off the first little credit card, then you see the progress.

[1219] You start feeling better about yourself.

[1220] and it just gets better and better and a little easier.

[1221] And by the end, once I'm throwing a thousand bucks a month at different things, it just becomes a phenomenal feeling.

[1222] You feel like you're actually achieving your goals.

[1223] And, like, I mean, last year I was able to max out my raw thyroid for the first time ever so I can start thinking about retirement, which was not even a possibility before.

[1224] So, you know, I'm just incredibly grateful.

[1225] And it's all thanks to you guys.

[1226] So I appreciate it.

[1227] What do you do for a living, man?

[1228] I manage a couple sushi restaurants.

[1229] So if you ever in Madison, I mean, we've won best sushi restaurant as in like seven years ago.

[1230] I was going to say, when I think sushi, I think middle America.

[1231] Yeah.

[1232] Oh, yeah.

[1233] Exactly.

[1234] Above all the lakes.

[1235] But, I mean, we fly our fishing every day, man. We do it right.

[1236] I bet it's amazing.

[1237] It is.

[1238] Yeah, we do real long.

[1239] I had sushi for lunch.

[1240] I can put a hurting on an haulage.

[1241] Oh, dude, please.

[1242] It'd be my treat.

[1243] Yeah.

[1244] Well, congratulations, brother.

[1245] Dude, thank you, man. It was all thanks to you guys.

[1246] I didn't do it.

[1247] You did.

[1248] We didn't do anything, man. Well, if I didn't find you all, I don't even want to think where I'd be right now.

[1249] So thank you.

[1250] It means a ton to me. How's it feel to be free?

[1251] Oh, it feels great, man. I can sleep so much better at night.

[1252] I bought a new set of tires a couple months ago, and I did it without crying.

[1253] I couldn't have done that a couple years ago.

[1254] It was wonderful.

[1255] Tires and crying, they always go together.

[1256] Yeah, right.

[1257] What was the hardest thing?

[1258] I mean, your manager of a restaurant, people have expectations of what managers look like, what they should be driving, how they should be flashing money around.

[1259] What was the hardest thing you had to experience going through this journey?

[1260] Oh, well, it was a complete lifestyle change.

[1261] Because, I mean, in my 20s, you know, we'd go out drinking and party and all the time.

[1262] And, you know, like, we were all broke, but we thought we were rich, you know.

[1263] And now it's, I heard a really good saying once where when you're young, you focus on your earn and when you're old, you're focused on your burn.

[1264] And that's completely true.

[1265] Like, once I hit my 30s, I was like, I didn't make noticeably more money or anything, but I controlled where I was spending my money.

[1266] I stopped going out.

[1267] I stopped drinking, stop smoking cigarettes, you know, all these like massive, you know, inhibitors on my wealth.

[1268] And that now it just, you know, I'm reaping the rewards of that.

[1269] so it's great and you feel better you feel better oh dude i lost like 50 pounds yeah i look better even without the hair yeah you lost 50 pounds too yeah oh yeah dude i changed my whole freaking life man it was nuts it was great wow yeah good for you oh thank you well done proud of you very cool all right what advice do you have to somebody who's listening we just went through a a bad breakup with a bad girl and uh they got some bad debt to go with it uh what what are you tell them the key to getting out of debt is.

[1270] Well, I mean, if I can do it, anyone can do it.

[1271] I'm not a college -educated millionaire or anything.

[1272] Like, anyone can do it, but it's going to be humbling.

[1273] You're not going to enjoy it.

[1274] It's going to be tough.

[1275] But, you know, if you make your mind up and, like, you decide you want to do it and commit to it, you know, then you can succeed.

[1276] It might take longer than you want, but anybody can do it.

[1277] You just got to put the effort out there.

[1278] Yeah, and you're making $45 ,000 a year.

[1279] I mean, you're making $300 ,000.

[1280] Exactly.

[1281] I did go back to school, though, start last year.

[1282] So, I mean, yeah, so, like, I'm making, I like where I'm at right now, and it's great for a single dude in his 30s, but I'm not going to be wanting to necessarily be doing it in my 50s or 60s once I get a little older, so I'm going to school to be an engineer.

[1283] Good for you.

[1284] Wow.

[1285] Hopefully it all works out.

[1286] That'll be a whole shift.

[1287] Yeah, right, man. Hold on, let me get this straight.

[1288] You paid off debt in four years, and in the process, lost 50 pounds.

[1289] I fixed my teeth, too.

[1290] My teeth were messed up.

[1291] He actually lost about, I don't know, 150 because he got rid of her, too.

[1292] Yeah, right.

[1293] Your hair, too.

[1294] But you fix your teeth.

[1295] you're going to be an engineer you got a significant raise against your salary right yeah like you've changed everything man yeah well i wasn't happy with the guy in the mirror in my late 20s you know i want you to talk on that no well i mean that was i mean there was a lot of factors with that i mean when i was 22 i lost my father i didn't have the tools that deal with that so i became a pretty bad alcoholic you know but i mean we were all in the restaurant industry we just go out drinking every night that was just normal commonplace so you know that just all snowballed with all the debt and just thinking that that was an acceptable lifestyle or sustainable and it completely wasn't so what's it like to be well man oh do like i said do you sleep better i'm happier just weight off my shoulders like when i was in debt it felt like you were drowning or suffocating constantly there was always you know like something minor like hey can we go out to dinner for our anniversary on the weekend like it's like i don't know if we can budget the hundred bucks for that you know like it would just it'd be astronomically horrible but now it's like cool i could i just drove to nashville tennessee on a wind be on the show and like i'm not sweating it at all and it's freaking wonderful so you know yeah it's just it's so night and day and you know it's just wonderful you changed everything man that's amazing and then it's not rocket science it's just living within your means and then and having a goal like the big thing in my 20s i didn't have a goal or a plan now i do and i follow it and you're reaping those rewards absolutely yeah it's not a rocket science way to go hero congratulations thank you guys proud of you man thanks for him yeah excellent excellent work you're a sharp young dude now well done sometimes turned yourself into one very good good job man that's great transformation i love it i love it i love it all right it's alan from madison wisconsin home of the world's best sushi 30 thousand dollars paid off in four years making 45 to 55 lost 50 pounds in the process changed his whole life that's the key right there so proud of you man count it down let's hear a debt -free scream one two three i'm debt -free That's how it's done right there And that thing where he said It's not sustainable That lifestyle is not sustainable It flashed through my mind I got a new friend of a famous guy Who's been Been off of cocaine for two years And I was just asking him the other day I was asking him I said man How'd you decide I mean cocaine's tough It's a tough one to break It's a devil yeah And how do you break cocaine And he goes I just look up, man. He goes, there are no old cocaine addicts.

[1296] Ooh.

[1297] Good motivator.

[1298] Yeah, it takes your soul, man. Good motivator.

[1299] You know, there, you know, this, this partying every night, this drinking and, you know, and calling it normal.

[1300] It's not sustainable.

[1301] Same thing, right?

[1302] Same situation.

[1303] There are no old people that do that, that have high quality lives.

[1304] Right.

[1305] And so, you just don't run into those.

[1306] They're not out there.

[1307] And I love hearing when people decide to get their money, right?

[1308] and they decided to get on a plan, they realize, oh, my weights like that too, and my relationships are like that too.

[1309] And then he's looking down to 55 -year -old self thinking, I want to be an engineer.

[1310] I don't want to be running around restaurant to restaurant.

[1311] That's amazing, man. It's amazing.

[1312] Very cool.

[1313] Very cool.

[1314] This is the Ramsey show.

[1315] Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 1522, plans fail for lack of counsel.

[1316] But with many wise advisors, they succeed.

[1317] Brian Tracy said, Failure is a prerequisite for great success.

[1318] If you want to succeed faster, double your rate of failure.

[1319] That sounds painful.

[1320] Tanner, Tanner's in Lexington.

[1321] Hey, Tanner, how are you?

[1322] Hey, I'm doing good, Mr. Ramsey.

[1323] Good.

[1324] How can we help?

[1325] Yeah, so me and my wife, we're kind of at a financial crossroads, some decisions coming up.

[1326] So we bought a house in 2021, low interest rate, you know, I'm sure there's people out here in this same situation.

[1327] But we bought it with an unfinished basement.

[1328] And over time, I've just been paying cash and finishing out the basement, and it's almost done, just got a couple more things to do.

[1329] And we're looking at either selling the house and taking all the cash from the sale, because we should make quite a bit of money on it, and downsizing to a house that's coming up available next to my in -law.

[1330] and paying cash for it and and paying off our debts and putting down a huge down payment but not quite paying cash for the other house okay what's wrong with that yes uh well um so we have a car loan it's about uh $18 ,000 and about $50 ,000 in student loan debt okay and would you rather us sell a house and pay off all of our debts and downsides to that house, or do you think we should rent this house and take our cash that we've saved up and buy that other house and use this property as a rental income to almost pay for the mortgage for the other house?

[1331] So sometimes a good way to help you with the decision -making on that is to reverse engineer it.

[1332] Let's pretend you were living in a house next to your in -law.

[1333] and you were debt -free and it was almost paid off because that's one option, right?

[1334] Yes.

[1335] Okay, let's pretend you're there.

[1336] Would you go borrow more on the paid -for house, almost paid -for house, and go borrow $70 ,000 on cars and student loans to buy a rental house?

[1337] No, you wouldn't.

[1338] Yeah.

[1339] Effectively, that's what you're doing, only I just did it in reverse.

[1340] Okay.

[1341] By making the decision to not pay off the debt and not put down as much on the other house, it's as if you borrowed on those two things to buy the current house and make it a rental.

[1342] Does that make sense?

[1343] Yes, it does.

[1344] Okay.

[1345] Which that tells me not to do it.

[1346] Gotcha.

[1347] Okay.

[1348] And another question is, like, would you recommend us staying in this house and just, staying here and then just paying off those debts or...

[1349] Well, that just has the day with how miserable a human being your in -laws are.

[1350] Yeah, I was going to say, what's the in -law tax?

[1351] I have a wonderful in -laws.

[1352] They're great.

[1353] You know who says that?

[1354] People with really scary in -laws.

[1355] She's probably going to listen to this.

[1356] I know.

[1357] We're trying to get you in trouble.

[1358] It sounds like the way you presented this, dude, it sounds like you want to move.

[1359] and it sounds like you've put a lot of work into this thing and it's become a project and you're happy and you're proud of it and...

[1360] Kind of hate to let that go.

[1361] You don't want to let it go.

[1362] But also, man, that money would be nice.

[1363] It would really set you up and transform your life and one fell swoop.

[1364] And I would say, think of it this way.

[1365] If somebody said, hey, if you'll work six months and help me refinish out my basement, I'm going to pay off every debt you own and pretty much get you real close to paying off another mortgage closer to family.

[1366] I'd take that side job.

[1367] You would too, right?

[1368] right good side job it's a great side job so that's effectively what you've done it's pretty amazing yeah and and got to live there too so yeah it's uh it's turned out to be a really good investment for you and a good use of your sweat equity to build out that garage that basement and add that square that finished square footage to the appraisal and so congratulations sir well played sell it be dead free and then have a plan to finish paying off the other little house as quick as you can all right up next is Travis and Tampa hi Travis How are you?

[1369] Dave, a pleasure, Dr. Jay.

[1370] Glad to be with you.

[1371] Thanks.

[1372] How can we help, sir?

[1373] Yeah.

[1374] So my kids are, my second child, last child, is getting ready to graduate very soon.

[1375] And my wife and I have been following baby steps, we'll say baby steps, ish.

[1376] But we are in a good position.

[1377] We've paid off a good amount of debts.

[1378] Recently retired from the military, transitioned, made that transition.

[1379] Now we're in a financial position where we weren't previously when they were going to school or we would have cash flowed their college.

[1380] Now we're in a position to help pay off their student debt.

[1381] As they're exiting college, we want to do that, but we also want to stick to the baby steps, trying to figure out where that falls appropriately in the baby steps.

[1382] So we're currently in Baby Step 2 should be completely debt three in about the next 60 days based off our salary.

[1383] And how much student loan debt would you be assisting with?

[1384] I would be assisting total between the two kids.

[1385] approximately 65 ,000.

[1386] And what does, what's your household income?

[1387] Household income net is about 280 ,000.

[1388] And that's just recent in the past two years since I've exited the service.

[1389] Wow.

[1390] Thank you for your service.

[1391] I'm glad you're doing so well.

[1392] So you can do this in a year.

[1393] Yes, sir.

[1394] That's our plan.

[1395] Yeah.

[1396] And, you know, in our current budget, I did indicate a little is, you know, Spousal participation has been open and communication has been good, not fully gazelle intense, but definitely moving in the direction of being debt -free, like I said.

[1397] I like the idea if you guys put them.

[1398] I like y 'all putting your oxygen mask on first and being debt -free in 60 days and then deciding we're going to save up and bless and surprise our kids.

[1399] Okay.

[1400] That makes the most sense.

[1401] I wasn't sure does it fall after we start contributing our merger.

[1402] It depends on whether you want to call it.

[1403] It's technically not your debt.

[1404] Right.

[1405] So technically this is a charitable gift.

[1406] Correct, yeah.

[1407] And we want to honor that change in our generation.

[1408] We didn't have that opportunity, which is why we even had debt with student loan debt.

[1409] That's not true.

[1410] We didn't have that opportunity.

[1411] That's not true.

[1412] That's part of the equation.

[1413] But, you know, you do not have any moral obligation here unless you made one to your kid, unless you promised your kid you'd help them pay it.

[1414] But if you do you, okay, then this is a gift.

[1415] Yes, sir.

[1416] And it's not a, and it's not a guilt trip, and it's not, and you're not morally obligated to do this.

[1417] So it's a charitable thing you're doing for your children.

[1418] There's nothing wrong with that.

[1419] That's okay.

[1420] But if you're going to do that, then you place it out there after baby step four, you know, four, five, six while you're working on that.

[1421] You get your emergency fund in place.

[1422] You're out of debt.

[1423] And then we save up and just write a match you check for Christmas one year.

[1424] Like John said, like John was saying, I think that's a plan.

[1425] If you had said, I promise to help you pay this when you graduate, then now it's not a legal contract, but it's a moral obligation.

[1426] I would put it in your debt snowball then, in that case.

[1427] No, they were fully aware.

[1428] We coached on the options of going to school, what that looked like to go to school debt for you.

[1429] They did have that option because we give to them two years of my military benefits for education.

[1430] Yeah, and they chose to go to schools they couldn't afford.

[1431] correct yeah yeah so please do not please do not put your family in further financial jeopardy because you feel guilty in fact i would love as a guy who's worked the college students for most of my career i would love for you to sit down with your kids i know the surprise would be really fun that'd be cool but i'd love for you to sit down and say i want to see you follow a budget and follow a plan follow fPU for one year after you get your job i want to see where you are and i'm going to be willing to if you meet X criteria, I'm going to write you a check and pay out for student loans.

[1432] Yeah.

[1433] And it puts, they have some skin in the game.

[1434] And I like that investment in their future adulthood.

[1435] But not this guilt thing, man. Colleges take advantage of another generation, you know, like we have some kind of generational reparation.

[1436] No, you got guilt.

[1437] You feel guilty that your kids have went to school and you couldn't afford it.

[1438] And now that you make a bunch of money, you feel like you owe them.

[1439] You don't.

[1440] You don't.

[1441] They could have gone to somewhere and not have student loan debt.

[1442] They made choices, too.

[1443] So they're in this, too.

[1444] So, yeah, that's the thing.

[1445] But it's good.

[1446] It's very nice.

[1447] You're charitable dad.

[1448] You're in great shape.

[1449] You're making great money.

[1450] So, yeah, put yourself in a position.

[1451] You can do something along those lines.

[1452] That'd be my plan.

[1453] Good question.

[1454] That puts us our of the Ramsey show in the books.

[1455] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1456] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace.

[1457] Christ Jesus.

[1458] Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here.

[1459] You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring.

[1460] You just need a budgeting app that's made.

[1461] with you in mind and that's every dollar the every dollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money start budgeting with every dollar for free right now just go to ramsysolutions .com slash every dollar and download the app today that's ramsysolutions .com slash every dollar