Nick Offerman

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Turkey Party.

[1] That was good.

[2] Oh, thank you.

[3] You know, I stole that from Aaron.

[4] He cracked that impression.

[5] That's amazing.

[6] Yeah.

[7] I'm not surprised that he dedicated some time to that, just like his Steve Urkel.

[8] Yes, similar dedication.

[9] Once a year they'd have a Fourth of July party, and he would be drunk at like 6 a .m. And you'd hear him out in the yard acting like a turkey with the turkey.

[10] Oh, wow.

[11] And then the turkey would join in, and they would communicate, basically.

[12] Oh, that's sweet.

[13] He's always had a connection with animals.

[14] You know who else's has a great connection with animals, maybe just their house, the outdoors, nature?

[15] That's right.

[16] Nick Offerman.

[17] He does.

[18] And he has a new book out called Where the Deer and the Antelope Play, which is a tour of America's most beautiful places, as well as a mission statement about loving, protecting, and experiencing the outdoors.

[19] It's a good message.

[20] It's a great message.

[21] And he's a beautiful person.

[22] I love him.

[23] He is a beautiful person.

[24] He's so awesome.

[25] It's what I like about you.

[26] He's very competent.

[27] I love competence.

[28] He's very competent.

[29] It seems he can do anything.

[30] And he has a kind of what you would think is a hard exterior, but a very soft inside.

[31] Yes, very Eminem like in warm weather.

[32] Oh, Eminem, the candy.

[33] Yeah, not the rapper.

[34] I don't know enough about the rapper to be able to say.

[35] I don't either, but I'd like to find out.

[36] Eminem, if you're listening, get on here.

[37] Let's make this about Eminem.

[38] Well, how about this, Eminem?

[39] You listen to Nick Offerman right now and tell me if you'd like to have a similar conversation.

[40] If so, hit me on IG, I guess.

[41] Please enjoy Nick Offerman.

[42] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now.

[43] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[44] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[45] I'm ashamed to admit it, but I've just kind of crossed some threshold with it where I'm like, I'm vaxed, I get tested, and that's the end of how much I'm going to think about this anymore.

[46] Right.

[47] I don't know.

[48] I'm sure that's unethical, but I'm just like, I'm doing the shit that I got to do.

[49] And I don't have any more space for this fucking experience in my life.

[50] Well, it's just like the news over the last six, seven years.

[51] It's like you reach a point where you listen to it every day and then you're like, oh, don't ever play it again.

[52] But it's just that thing of like going to the hospital or going to a film set.

[53] where I'm like, yeah, do everything I can.

[54] I should drill down into this.

[55] I guess I have some arrogance about it.

[56] Like, I guess I think someone on the film set's going to get it, but I don't think it's going to be me because I don't fucking do anything.

[57] You know what I'm saying?

[58] I'm like at my house with my kids.

[59] Totally.

[60] And then I go to work.

[61] And really, this is my work.

[62] So I don't know.

[63] How do you feel?

[64] You've changed, you've evolved quite a bit, I've noticed.

[65] I used to be, I was really scared of it at first.

[66] Well, I wasn't scared of it.

[67] It was the same thing.

[68] I was just like, I can't live if I, I give it to somebody.

[69] Right.

[70] But I have evolved.

[71] I've gotten much less strict, having done all the protocols.

[72] I wear masks out and a right.

[73] You know, it's not like...

[74] But we were in England, and let me tell you, man, they don't wear anything.

[75] I mean, mind you, they're highly vaxed, which is fantastic.

[76] 80%, yeah.

[77] But they're not wearing it.

[78] And I got to say we were there, and I'm like, I'd fucking love this.

[79] I miss this.

[80] And I got tested when I got home and everything was kosher.

[81] I missed it.

[82] It's either like lock ourselves in a bubble.

[83] or roll the dice a little bit here and there.

[84] Yeah.

[85] But at the same time, when it calls for it, then I'm like, come on, you guys, can't we err on the side of safety?

[86] Yeah, yeah.

[87] Like, if we're getting in the subway car, like...

[88] Yeah.

[89] I think there's no fans in here, guys.

[90] We're writing in a Ziplot, gang.

[91] Does that occur to everyone?

[92] I'm going to hold my breath all the way to Canal Street.

[93] Yeah, we didn't do any...

[94] Like, there was no getting on the tube.

[95] I wouldn't have enjoyed.

[96] I would have scared me. We had one moment where we were actually, we had stepped into a restaurant to, you know, to request a table.

[97] And there was maybe four people in front of us.

[98] And the hallway was narrow in that the ceiling was very low, which as a tall person, I'm already kind of claustrophobic.

[99] That was the only moment where I was like, well, if these people have it, it's whatever they have in their mouth is in my mouth for sure.

[100] But that was the only time.

[101] Oh, my gosh.

[102] And do you guys know that people have fake things?

[103] vaccine cards.

[104] Oh, yeah.

[105] And they're expensive.

[106] I mean.

[107] People pay good money rather than get a free vaccine that pay 500 bucks for like a counterfeit vaccine card.

[108] Okay, so fuck it.

[109] We're talking about it.

[110] So I've been on here kind of vocal about the fact that I was one of these people that by nature, I was like, the science isn't settled.

[111] Like there's a lot of marching orders and there's a lot of questions.

[112] And again, from my childhood, a lot of trustworthy people lied and had to agenda so I'm scarred by that and I don't believe people you know I'm whatever sure I came into it with that baggage I did all the right shit like I did quarantine I did everything that my wife and Monica would make them feel safe so I'm a little bit sympathetic to other people who've had mass trauma who don't trust people like I get that part now the thing that fucking pisses me off it's the first time I've broke my silence on it on social media about it was this notion that you're super brave if you don't get a vaccine that pisses me off because I have a bar for what bravery is.

[113] And don't you fucking dare call that being brave?

[114] No, for some reason, because of through no fault of my own, some months ago, I was asked to speak to Congress.

[115] Oh my God.

[116] Wow.

[117] On woodworking?

[118] No, on vaccination.

[119] No shit.

[120] So basically they were like, we have scientists, we have leaders.

[121] What we need is a dip shit.

[122] Like who are the people going to listen to?

[123] Who knows how to drive and nail?

[124] And so I, I wrote, wrote up this five minute thing and the comforting thing was that all of the science that goes into it all was very reassuring and the general science around this has been going on for decades and so that it made me feel confident and saying okay look there's nothing dangerous here you're absolutely right that we don't know but we also don't know what's in so many things that we shove into our bodies how many fucking dudes were like i'm putting something in my body Give me that straw.

[125] They're huffing, they're fucking banging rails back with next to some stranger in a bathroom.

[126] That's totally fine.

[127] But something FDA approved, yeah, is just way too high risk.

[128] By the time you got there to talk to Congress, first of all, I have tons of questions about that, but had you had the data, because my thing now is like, you can't get around the fact that unvaccinated people are dying 11 to 1.

[129] Like, that's end of story for me. Whatever else you want to say about it, okay, but they're dying at 11 to 1.

[130] That's open and shut.

[131] Did you have that info by the time you got there?

[132] Sort of, not that concrete, but generally.

[133] yes, like those numbers hadn't started coming in yet.

[134] Right.

[135] But generally that was the sensibility of like, look, the dangers of not getting vaccinated is there's a good chance you'll die of COVID.

[136] Right.

[137] If you get it.

[138] The dangers of getting vaccinated are so minuscule compared to anything without it.

[139] Yeah.

[140] I've got a plaque hanging in my woodshop that my best friend made a long time ago that says, my God -given right to go to hell.

[141] Yeah.

[142] And that's what I love and despise about us Americans.

[143] I couldn't agree more.

[144] Where we're like, by God, we're the greatest.

[145] And at the same time, we're like, I'm going to shoot myself in the foot.

[146] You better stand back.

[147] Yeah.

[148] That's right.

[149] I do believe in the right to self -destruct.

[150] To be honest, I generally would defend one's individual right to self -destruct.

[151] Of course, it gets complicated in that you're going to take some people down with you, likely.

[152] Right.

[153] That's where it gets murky, but, and it's been fun to watch the American part.

[154] So, like, there are national characters.

[155] We have one.

[156] We're a country of immigrants.

[157] We have a ton of dopamine.

[158] We are bipolar.

[159] All these things.

[160] So we sucked at quarantining.

[161] We don't want to follow rules.

[162] We sucked at masks.

[163] We sucked at all that.

[164] But by God, we got that fucking vaccine done in two seconds.

[165] Yeah.

[166] And we distributed it.

[167] And we passed everyone getting vaccinate.

[168] I was like, oh, right.

[169] So it's all tradeoffs.

[170] Now we're kicking ass.

[171] These other people that were super cautious.

[172] They can't even decide who's getting the vaccine.

[173] So it all, to me, it's like, you can't just say one's good or bad.

[174] It's like, this comes with this, that comes with that.

[175] What were you going to say?

[176] To me, there is so much privilege here that there's even a choice.

[177] Like in so many other countries, they just don't have it.

[178] They don't have enough of it.

[179] And so, and they want it.

[180] But we're like, oh, we have tons, but maybe I'll take it.

[181] Maybe I won't.

[182] That's upsetting.

[183] Ultimately, it, and this is something that runs through this new book of mine is the last, lack of nuance in every national conversation.

[184] Yeah, yeah.

[185] Everything has to be reduced to the length of a tweet.

[186] And so is it good or bad?

[187] Right.

[188] Tell me who to vote for before I punch you.

[189] And it's like, well, hang on.

[190] There's actually anything involving more than one human has a whole bunch of boxes to check.

[191] I always say, just reduce it down to like a suburban full of kids.

[192] Just try and negotiate with that group.

[193] And you can't keep all those people happy.

[194] But even if we did miraculously, it's not going to last because it's still human being.

[195] So even if everyone's happy, everyone's napping, everyone has an ice cream, man, that ice cream's going to run out or they're going to wake up.

[196] So you just said something really subtle that probably blew past a lot of people's head.

[197] And I think it might be the quintessential thing you'll say today, which is a suburban full of kids.

[198] Because that tells me every single thing I need to know about your childhood, who you are, and everything.

[199] You didn't say a minivan.

[200] You didn't say this.

[201] Like, you understand what a life in a suburban is like.

[202] Yeah.

[203] Well, that is a big part of my persona.

[204] And for 12 years, that suburban was a three speed on the tree.

[205] Oh, baby.

[206] Three on the tree.

[207] And we have three siblings.

[208] So you got mom and dad up front.

[209] And then the back from the bench front seat back to the power window.

[210] Yeah, yeah.

[211] There's a layer of coolers and luggage covered in sleeping beds.

[212] Oh, wow.

[213] So the back of the suburban on the road trip is like a massive, like, kid bed.

[214] A fort.

[215] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[216] It's so fun.

[217] Oh, fun.

[218] Did you see Crazy Heart that?

[219] Oh, yeah.

[220] Yeah, so to me, the moment I knew that was going to be a great movie, I wonder if you were late as he drove a suburban.

[221] And when he got up before he even activated the window, he got his hands on that rear window because it doesn't come up and down.

[222] You're going to need to assist that.

[223] And I was like, he fucking took the time to learn this vehicle.

[224] Yeah.

[225] I'm blown away just from that move.

[226] That's what I don't do as an actor.

[227] Well, just a touch like that can make or break an entire film.

[228] One of the greatest actors of our day, Joaquin Phoenix.

[229] Oh, yeah.

[230] There was a movie called Signs.

[231] Joaquin was playing a kid.

[232] And at some point he had to go out and use a shovel and then come back in from using a shovel.

[233] And his jeans were so clean when he came back in.

[234] You're out.

[235] That I was like, the magic is gone.

[236] That's true He has since made up for it He's redeemed himself He's like focused on the emotions Like let him focus on I can't do the emotions he's doing It's true Yeah you and I would worry about the jeans And we'd miss the emotions maybe The ultimate actors Can you check all those boxes Now it's funny you'd say When going to Congress They have identified you as someone Who might be able to speak to To folks that they can't speak to And I'll give Howard Stern credit for this Like, I don't think there's ever been a gay activist who's done as much for the cause as Howard Stern.

[237] Because the gay activists were talking other gay activists and other liberals like me. They weren't talking to the adversary.

[238] And Howard Stern, his fan base is solely almost what it is.

[239] Jamokes.

[240] Yeah, Jibonis.

[241] Among who I would count myself.

[242] Me too.

[243] I say that with affection.

[244] Yeah.

[245] I guess, oh, man. Well, let's talk about going to Congress.

[246] So you fly there and are you greeted?

[247] No, no, no. This is four or five months ago.

[248] Zoom.

[249] Unfortunately.

[250] Because how many times will we see movies where it's like the person goes there and they make this impassioned speed?

[251] I was so excited.

[252] I was like, this is going to fix everything.

[253] You finally asked me for five minutes.

[254] Problem solved.

[255] It'll be about vaccines, but you'll be able to map on the logic of this argument onto all the problems in the government.

[256] Solve everything.

[257] If I might swing over to cancer real quick.

[258] I'm going to tap dance around a little bit No, it was in fact kind of a comedy Because like we did an episode of Parks and Rec By Zoom when the pandemic just started Okay So you got one of those screens with like 12 or 16 people or whatever And the congressional hearing was similar And so you got Congress people like in the back of a limo Like looking at their phone you know, half paying attention.

[259] So many people on mute.

[260] Anyone on a Peloton?

[261] Might as well have been.

[262] Yeah, yeah.

[263] And it felt like an episode of Parks and Rec.

[264] It's too absurd.

[265] The public officials are like, I'm sorry.

[266] What were you saying?

[267] No, give me two hot sauce.

[268] With the six piece.

[269] No, go ahead.

[270] Go ahead.

[271] Oh, that's hysterical.

[272] You know what's funny, the suburban, if I had to say, like, my stereotype of a social studies teacher, it is a fucking suburban.

[273] And it's either the orange and brown and white stripe in the middle, the tritone.

[274] What color was dads?

[275] I assume that was his dad was a social studies teacher.

[276] So to me that is like a bullseye of what a social studies teacher should drive.

[277] Totally.

[278] That ex -farmor, like grew up on a farm, the town star of like basketball and baseball and then become school teacher.

[279] We never bought a new one.

[280] The first one was very used and it was fully gray.

[281] Who knows what color it started as?

[282] Yeah.

[283] It was like primer.

[284] with a gloss coat on top.

[285] And then we traded that in in 82, I want to say, for blue with like the silver middle stripe.

[286] And that had power windows.

[287] Oh, baby.

[288] And that was like, we're now upper middle class.

[289] We have power windows.

[290] Yeah, big time.

[291] It wasn't the diesel, was it?

[292] And it was an automatic?

[293] No, it was not a diesel.

[294] So here's another thing I think you and I share.

[295] But now I want to say that what I understand about your word work, is it's actually pretty damn good.

[296] But again, it could be average, but because you're the only actor I know who does it, I think you've been elevated to like master craftsmen.

[297] And I just want to say similarly, I can work on cars.

[298] I'm not a fucking fabricator.

[299] I'm not great.

[300] But in Hollywood, I am a unicorn.

[301] And people seem to be really perplexed and intrigued by the whole thing.

[302] And I think we probably share that.

[303] That's a great point, yeah.

[304] And the word mastery is what jumps out at me because I often get introduced as actor, writer, master woodworker.

[305] And I say, who the fuck?

[306] Where did you ever get that?

[307] Because, oh my God, he made a table.

[308] He's a master.

[309] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[310] And so I am friends with master woodworkers.

[311] And the reason they're masters is because they spend their lives pursuing mastery.

[312] Yeah.

[313] Whereas I spend my life doing a podcast with YouTube, writing a book, doing a TV show.

[314] I'm a very competent woodworker.

[315] And I'm really proud of my work.

[316] and I've done some beautiful stuff, but I can name a hundred off the top of my head that are way better than me because that's what they do.

[317] Yes, yes.

[318] And their performance in The Crucible, as John Proctor, doesn't hold up to mine.

[319] That's the relation.

[320] Wait, what's the piece you're most proud of?

[321] Or have you, like, built a house?

[322] I don't know the...

[323] He makes canoes.

[324] He's made a ukulele.

[325] Wow.

[326] Those I'm very proud of.

[327] probably my canoe, my first canoe, like to build a canoe out of wood and then paddle it, I foolishly launched it in New York Harbor.

[328] I built it in Brooklyn.

[329] And quickly learned you don't want a little open boat out on that big of water.

[330] Yeah.

[331] And there's also gigantic vessels passing that are creating huge waves you weren't anticipating.

[332] Yeah, it was the wake of the water taxi that changed my tune real quick.

[333] But then eventually, I've been on a bunch of rivers with my canoe and with paddles that I've made as well and that sensibility of like turning wood into watercraft and touching the part of our ancestry that's like, oh, I can get across the water.

[334] Holy shit.

[335] Yeah.

[336] If the shit goes down, I can get across the water.

[337] Yes.

[338] I agree.

[339] I couldn't agree more.

[340] These little things happen all the time.

[341] So right where we're sitting, in the corner of the yard, we have this huge tree that had died, and an end of it was cut off.

[342] But the point is, is it goes all the way up probably 10 feet in the air and then it's just cut off and our dog has recently been getting his ass up there.

[343] I'll look out the back window and the dog looks like it's levitating like 12 feet in the air and then it jumps into the neighbor's house nobody lives there.

[344] So I got to jump a fence and it's a pain in the ass so I had friends over yesterday and by God that motherfucker goes up there again and we're playing cards and I go I need five minutes I go get my chainsaw for my sisters I go grab my chainsaw I come up there I get rid of that fucking log already I come back in And it is as if I turned water into wine because we're in L .A. Oh, yeah.

[345] And I love it.

[346] Like in Michigan, I'm very average at all, quote, manly tasks.

[347] Yeah.

[348] Just competent, as you would say.

[349] I have two sisters and a brother, and my sisters, by that measure, are so much more manly than me. Like, I'm the family member who's had two semesters of ballet.

[350] Like, they have, I guarantee they've split more firewere.

[351] wood in the last year.

[352] Shoveled more snow.

[353] I'm a soft -ass actor, you know, living in Los Angeles.

[354] Sure, sure.

[355] And yes, I can use a chainsaw, but so can my mom.

[356] Yeah, another electric now, too.

[357] I was trying to tell him, like, any one of you could have went out there and died.

[358] I mean, you've got to watch where the log's going to fall.

[359] You find that out the hard way when you're younger, but other than that, you just pull the trigger and let's party.

[360] The one thing, if anybody starts messing with a chainsaw, just understand the weight of your material and what's going to pinch the blade.

[361] Yeah.

[362] That's what'll really hurt your feelings.

[363] Yes, great point.

[364] You cut down the tree.

[365] I thought you took the chainsaw of the dog.

[366] I would have loved to my wife's in fucking England for six weeks, and I keep fantasizing of ways this dog could be peacefully pass on, and it would be a plausible story, but I just haven't come up with one yet.

[367] Let's workshop that.

[368] But Joliet, right?

[369] I was born in Joliet.

[370] That's the city near our farm town of Manuka.

[371] Okay, now, so I shot in Joliet for a bit with Arnett.

[372] Yeah, let's escape prisons.

[373] Let's go to prison.

[374] Let's have fun in prison with the title.

[375] Let's keep Mike Shannon's hands off of me. I actually, when I was a kid, one of the jobs I had was on a blacktop crew, and we put up a basketball court in that prison.

[376] When it was still functioning.

[377] It's Stateville, yeah.

[378] Yeah.

[379] Well, so there's the old one, the Blues Brothers one.

[380] We were shooting in that.

[381] And then there's a pretty fancy one down the road that we also visited, which was quite an experience.

[382] And then we were up in Bowling Brook.

[383] So is it the other direction from Bollingbrook?

[384] I guess that Bollingbrook's north of Joliet maybe?

[385] It is.

[386] It's north -east.

[387] It's on your way to Chicago.

[388] Right.

[389] And your town was - We're southwest of there.

[390] Southwest.

[391] I think we went bowling there or about that area.

[392] You may have gone to Shanahan.

[393] Yeah.

[394] Which is, I love Shanahan.

[395] We're like, if we were Minneapolis and St. Paul.

[396] Okay.

[397] We're twin cities.

[398] So they're the white socks to my cubs.

[399] So I have to give him a hard time.

[400] Sure.

[401] But, yeah, Shanahan's got the bowling alley, so they do have that.

[402] What was the size of your school?

[403] When I graduated high school, I want to say it was just under 200 in my class.

[404] So that's okay size, like 800 folks.

[405] Yeah, and that's combining Manuka, Shanahan, and Shorewood.

[406] What was the vibe there?

[407] Because I grew up in a suburb of Detroit where it was literally the one where just beyond us was cornfields, right?

[408] So it was great because it was like half hillbilly, but then you could go to the city as well.

[409] And the vibe was what you'd expect.

[410] It was very blue collar.

[411] It's quite violent.

[412] You know, there's people were sorting things out physically all the time.

[413] Sure.

[414] And I wonder, was it similar?

[415] Ours was really stuck in the 50s.

[416] Like, it reminded me not religiously per se, but of the high school in Footloose.

[417] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[418] Like real corn -pone kind of Chris Penn line dancing vibe.

[419] The city did not reach Manuka.

[420] And, in fact, when my cousin and I discovered breakdancing in the mid -80s, we had to go over to Shanahan to the skating rink, which was right next to the bowling alley.

[421] So now that I'm thinking about it, Shanahan is really shaping up to be the place to be.

[422] Wait, but just to make it, so it was three cities for one high school.

[423] Yeah, three towns.

[424] So we were like, oh, 200, that's actually not that small.

[425] That is extremely small when you think how many places is coming again.

[426] Well, that's how our high school was, too.

[427] Really?

[428] Yeah, it pulled from Milford, from Highland, from White Lake.

[429] There were three smaller towns of 10 ,000 people that all funneled into the one high school.

[430] It's not like my town had its own.

[431] Even my high school I went to, like Central was like it's pulling from four or five different little towns.

[432] Yeah, we had like three high schools within a five -mile radius.

[433] She's a Georgian.

[434] I think that might interest you.

[435] Yeah.

[436] In the context of what we're talking about, I would have had to go probably 30 to 45 minutes closer to Chicago.

[437] to get where I felt like I had one side urban, one side cornfield.

[438] Right, right, right.

[439] We were just, couldn't have been more homogenous.

[440] Yeah, and we had A McDonald's.

[441] Do you have more than one fast food place or no fast food?

[442] No fast food.

[443] No traffic light.

[444] No traffic light.

[445] So now the suburbs have reached Manuka.

[446] Like when I was there, it was sleepy farm town.

[447] Everybody knew everybody.

[448] Now it's people commuting from the city.

[449] And so now we have fast food.

[450] and four or five traffic lights, it's exponentially bigger.

[451] Wow.

[452] And now there's more like that.

[453] There's three high schools.

[454] Yeah.

[455] There's five junior highs and that kind of thing.

[456] That kind of sounds like what Bowling Brook was because Arnett and I every night would be like, you want Applebee's, Chili's, or, you know, they had like the five staples and not one independent.

[457] You could tell like it all happened in five seconds.

[458] Yeah.

[459] Yeah.

[460] And your role in high school, like how did you?

[461] Because what's really, of course, intriguing about you is you have all the, I got to call him that.

[462] I know it's not cool to say this anymore, but you have all these masculine tropes, but yet you're super artsy and as you said, you did ballet.

[463] So where did that put you in the niche in high school?

[464] I'm Sissy A .F. It was very interesting in high school.

[465] I was an athlete.

[466] I ended up being one of the three captains of the football team senior year.

[467] I was a defensive back, so I was fast, and I was a good hitter.

[468] Uh -huh.

[469] And then, like, basketball, I was like number.

[470] five or six guy.

[471] Baseball, I started at third base, but I bat like six.

[472] I was decent and had a lot of fun.

[473] I was a good student, but I like, I was real sharp enough that I would get 93s.

[474] So I made sure I'd get the A's, but only just.

[475] Yeah, good for you.

[476] Because that other seven points, like, that's fun time that I, like, a thousand percent.

[477] To me, this is the telling thing about me in high school.

[478] me and someone else close to me would go out and like spray graffiti on the football field or we would use herbicide, the contentious herbicide roundup.

[479] Because I hate to put this out there, but you can use that herbicide to write shit on your football field overnight.

[480] And then the next day, I as president of the student council would form a committee to go clean up the graffiti.

[481] Oh my.

[482] Okay.

[483] So I was a horribly duplicitous.

[484] The duality.

[485] Jerk.

[486] Artful Dodger.

[487] Always figuring out what can I get away with.

[488] Like pushing the envelope.

[489] And I'm happy to say by the time I started college and I was like experimenting with shoplifting and lying about shit.

[490] And just like, how slick am I or not?

[491] Yeah.

[492] Can I just ask really quick?

[493] Was there some element of it because I had this a bit?

[494] I wanted to test my wits against everything.

[495] It's like I don't even know if I was intrigued by the actual crime itself.

[496] It's just like, could I outfox somebody?

[497] Or yeah, exactly.

[498] I didn't need or want the shit I was stealing.

[499] It was like how far, like what is fun?

[500] What can I get away with?

[501] And I learned pretty quickly.

[502] And because I'm a straight white kid, I went to jail.

[503] I got arrested in a Kmart and ended up with like community service at like an animal shelter.

[504] You know, and then...

[505] Making you a better person.

[506] Eventually, I meet, like, inner city friends that they're like, no, my dad's still in jail because, you know...

[507] Did the exact same thing.

[508] Yeah.

[509] Yeah, my thing in that capacity was, like, drugs.

[510] The fact that I never went to prison, I was a raging drug addict, always carrying drugs.

[511] It finally occurred to me like, oh, yeah, I would have been...

[512] Right.

[513] Anyone that has any question about white privilege, it's like, uh...

[514] Yeah, think about some of the things.

[515] It's bonkers.

[516] Stories you'll tell where you got out of this, or you confronted this guy, stood up to that.

[517] Yeah.

[518] But thankfully, by the time I got to college, I called my mom and dad who were literally, there's the salt of the earth and I said, A, sorry about the last four or five years.

[519] Things are real clear suddenly.

[520] I'm out on my own.

[521] And B, thank you so much for the three things like the lessons.

[522] You just, you had so much patience and said, all you got to do is be honest.

[523] All you got to do is work your hardest and nobody can ever fault you.

[524] If you never tell a lie, then you don't have to remember anything and all that kind of thing.

[525] And once that clicked in, then I was like, okay, thank you, mom and dad.

[526] I love you.

[527] Now this is ground zero, and I'll spend my adulthood trying to make up for the misgivings of my youth.

[528] Well, so, yeah, I can relate in that I had a burdensome conscience, so I would do shit, but then it really ate at me, right?

[529] And there was some level that I bailed out.

[530] It's like, yeah, I'll throw apples at cars, yeah, I'll do this.

[531] But then my friend started, like, smashing mailboxes.

[532] I just pictured my mother, my single mother having to replace her man. I was like, I can't do that.

[533] Yeah.

[534] I can't, like, vandalize someone's store.

[535] I imagine, again, my mom only.

[536] So it was weird.

[537] I would want to play with it.

[538] But then I also would really, I'd feel terrible about some of this stuff.

[539] It's a wonderful point.

[540] I mean, and that's at the heart of the fucking message of empathy worldwide.

[541] It's like, that's somebody's mailbox.

[542] Yeah.

[543] Yeah.

[544] Those foreigners that you bombed, that's somebody.

[545] somebody's family.

[546] Yeah, yeah.

[547] You know, et cetera.

[548] Thankfully, at least in our case, we leaned towards Sissy A .F and became artists and storytellers.

[549] And so I would just take a moment to say, please don't vandalize your high school.

[550] We've given so many tips.

[551] How to use a chainsaw, how to vandalize your high school.

[552] This is more of a tutorial than an interview, actually.

[553] Yeah, which was expected.

[554] Yeah.

[555] There are groundskeepers and janitorial staff who, whose hearts you will break if you vandalize your school.

[556] You were the captain of the football team vandalizing your own football field.

[557] It's so funny.

[558] Like normally that's the rebel who hates the football guys.

[559] Well, no, here's the thing, though.

[560] The graffiti was against the opposing team coming in the next day.

[561] Then the cover -up was there was a bunch of extra graffiti with the palms blaming the cheerleaders and the cheerleaders blaming the palms.

[562] So we threw up smoke screens like a motherfucker.

[563] You are testing your wits.

[564] You thought about every step.

[565] The principal called me and was like, so what do you think of this as the palms or the cheerleaders?

[566] I was like, I don't know, let's get a few of them in here and ask some questions.

[567] That CH looks like the same handbrain.

[568] Oh, my God, this is great.

[569] This was Kaiser -Sosea in high school.

[570] This is the high school years.

[571] totally well as soon as you told that story it reminded me one of my favorite things I ever heard in an AA share which was some guy said um look man I was a fucking scumbag alcoholic like I'd steal your wallet and then I'd help you look for it oh my god that's so great that's it stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare what's up guys it's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[572] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[573] And I don't mean just friends.

[574] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[575] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[576] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[577] We've all been there.

[578] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[579] Though our minds tend to spiral to.

[580] to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery, like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[581] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[582] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[583] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[584] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[585] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[586] Now, I've not read anything to confirm this, but I'm going to guess some bands that are in the mix in this era, if that's okay.

[587] Sure.

[588] Take a swing.

[589] Yeah, I'm going to say Talking Heads.

[590] Not yet.

[591] Oh, fuck.

[592] Uh -oh.

[593] Okay.

[594] Okay.

[595] Let's see, if I graduated in 93, this is 88.

[596] 88 was my graduating year.

[597] The cult's not out yet, aren't?

[598] I don't know.

[599] Okay.

[600] What were they?

[601] I'm off base.

[602] I can wrap it up with two words.

[603] Nothing good.

[604] I grew up in such a cultural vacuum.

[605] To this day, if it wasn't for my cool friends, who I met in college in theater school, and they handed me things like the talking heads.

[606] Right, right, right.

[607] A pretty narrow field.

[608] Talking heads, they might be giants.

[609] Lori Anderson.

[610] Are you friends with someone from They Might Beimagining something?

[611] I have befriended the Johns of They Might Be Giants crazily.

[612] Yeah.

[613] And I did a music video for them.

[614] That's why I know that.

[615] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[616] Which blew my mind because when we were in college, we made a couple of videos to a couple of their songs and desperately tried to send them to them for years.

[617] And then 20 years later, they were like, hey, would you be in the...

[618] That's a sim.

[619] But you gotta see our particle man from the cemetery.

[620] That is a simulation moment Where you're like, well, this is It's super crazy I grew up in such a cultural vacuum Where it was just the popular Whatever the radio station was Or what was on TV And I had nobody cool I had no one with any taste Right I mean my older sister has pretty cool taste She turned me on to like Queen and Wham UK And that was enough In hindsight that I was like Those were much better choice Like, we went to Duran Duran.

[621] Uh -huh.

[622] That was all better than if I just had the Eagles or whatever.

[623] So I guess I would have assumed prior to reading about you that I knew you and Polar have been friends for a long time, as I'm a friend of hers as well.

[624] And I just fucking adore her beyond belief.

[625] I hope you still feel that way about her.

[626] Yeah.

[627] I mean, she's like, I hope we all live to a ripe old age.

[628] And when we do, she'll be like a bright, shining luminary in our lifetime.

[629] Yeah.

[630] I mean, she's simply a leader.

[631] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[632] Who happens to be the funniest person, just an absolute comedy factory.

[633] And generous and benevolent.

[634] Yeah.

[635] All those things.

[636] Yeah, you're right.

[637] She's like, when you think about what a world with many more female leaders could look like, I kind of think of her in a way like, oh, yeah, that's the blueprint.

[638] And I still work with her making our show making it.

[639] Right.

[640] And three seasons or something?

[641] We have done three seasons.

[642] And it's kind of sporadic.

[643] Like we're hoping for a fourth, we're always waiting to hear.

[644] I don't know if you're familiar with television networks, but...

[645] Well, the only thing I know about is it's highly predictable.

[646] You can pretty much...

[647] You can do a four -year crop rotation.

[648] You can really plan.

[649] Every time we do it, she and the other three executive producers in her company are just these smart, kick -ass powerful ladies who I've never felt any kind of envy or competition.

[650] with all I feel is respect just immediately like oh I hope you're my boss yeah like I hope you're in charge of everything because you're smart and you have all this experience and I'm just a guy well I got to be honest like if all things are equal I meet a dude that's an eight out of ten on all those factors and then I meet a woman that's eight out of ten and all those factors I know that the woman also climbed over a much bigger hurdle so like I have a built -in respect for someone that's like competent in doing that job knowing.

[651] Now, that could be any minority group, to be honest, where I'm like, fuck, you're all these things.

[652] And then also, it was probably three times as hard as it was for me to get here.

[653] That's a very salient point.

[654] And to put it in physical terms, when you think about being out in the wild, as it were, we straight white men are just required to have much less vision.

[655] The periphery of apex predators, we've got it down.

[656] But all the other classifications are much more susceptible to the tigers of history.

[657] Yes.

[658] And so the eight out of ten woman is like, yes.

[659] We just have a much better chance of surviving with you watching out for the predators than me because I like beer more than you.

[660] Also, I'm way more concerned.

[661] The predator is an element.

[662] But to be honest, all I want is Nick to think I'm radical fighting the thing.

[663] I actually, all the other stuff is kind of secondary to the main goal at all times, which is like you think I'm a badass.

[664] exactly oh my god they have the perspicacity to be like okay guys yeah it's so cute but it's not cute anymore we're gonna need groceries well i never finished my point was that i would have assumed that because of the polar background that you were probably like second city or maybe improv olympic or any of these things but you were more of like just a straight actor is that fair to say 100 % yeah i went to theater school at the university of illinois at champagne urbana which sounds funny but They have a great theater school.

[665] You're not the first person we've interviewed that's gone there and studied acting.

[666] Yeah, they give you a great set of fundamentals.

[667] It was lost on me. I sucked just about as bad when I left there as when I got there.

[668] Through no fault of their own, just because I was not waking up.

[669] I had not opened my eyes yet.

[670] What wasn't clicking?

[671] I didn't get the value of myself in my art. I devalued myself from the get -go and all of these cool kids from the city or all of these, like, movie stars my age, I was like, oh, I have to try hard to be cool like them.

[672] What I bring to the table, who cares is boring?

[673] And so the whole time, I was like, trying way too hard to be fucking cool when I would do my stuff.

[674] And I'd be like, why don't you just talk normal?

[675] Well, I'm going to read you.

[676] I love that you're saying this because I was going to read you like the very last thing I was probably going to say to you, which is I don't know if it was fortitude or unconscious.

[677] but to see someone stay true to who they are and not try to bend themselves into what you thought might work.

[678] Because from the outside, I look at you getting on Parks and Iraq at 39.

[679] I'm thinking, God bless this guy for not trying to do what everyone else did.

[680] And then the time arose where his unique set of everything is celebrated.

[681] That ain't easy.

[682] No, it takes stubbornness.

[683] I mean, depending on who you talk to or which of my landlords you talk to, it takes stupidity or rudeness.

[684] But stubbornness and tenacity, I found out you could get paid to be in plays in Chicago.

[685] And so that was my, I was like, great, life solved.

[686] And I went to Chicago and said about doing that.

[687] And I also got paid to build scenery for companies.

[688] And I was a fight choreographer.

[689] And I met Amy because one of my best friends lived in a house with Matt Besser, one of her upright citizens brigade guys.

[690] And so we met, and it was pretty weird.

[691] like especially looking back on it at what happened to us it was like 93 or 4 and we just kind of recognized i don't know a sibling energy i remember she would punch me in the arm and be like what's up offerman and she got a kick out of me for whatever reason because i was a particular brand of stupid and it wasn't until years later that it even occurred to me a that you could get to SNL from Second City and Improv Olympic.

[692] So when I met Amy, she was like, oh yeah, I do improv and I was like, you work at a zoo?

[693] It couldn't have been more alien.

[694] And I was like, you get this straight, you make shit up in a bar?

[695] Okay, I perform works of literature upon the stage.

[696] Good luck.

[697] You and your friends making funny faces.

[698] It is funny.

[699] If you've been in this bubble for long enough some of the people you've pitied at times and you feel like oh fuck did I miss the boat on that one but I do appreciate I think if there's anything looking at my track record or whatever it is that it's like it wasn't through wisdom or cognizance it was just through common sense like I knew in my gut that I I wasn't gonna be slick I knew that I was never going to have X factor.

[700] Yeah, yeah.

[701] Well, you ironically do, but yes, I know what you're saying.

[702] You would only have X factor as you.

[703] Right.

[704] But I didn't realize that that was the case.

[705] I instead equated it with like what other successful people are doing.

[706] That must be X factor.

[707] Yeah, yeah.

[708] And what I'm doing and not succeeding is stupid.

[709] Yeah, yeah.

[710] But I can't think of anything else to do.

[711] So I'm going to keep talking slow and growing whiskers somewhere out there.

[712] Somebody is good Someday One day they'll have a need This is good looking for a slow talking mustache You know what it is The script came in real light It's only about 22 pages And of course it should be 34 So do we have any actors That could make one of these two minutes scenes like seven, eight minutes?

[713] That would be ideal But was Parks written like that Like where you're like Oh, I'm perfect for this Or they wrote it for you right?

[714] They tailored it.

[715] No, no It's one of those things We're pretty quickly with all the cast it's interesting they cast Rashida and Aziz and Aubrey and even Amy before they had anything written I remember this this is when I was kind of around her a lot and what I had heard is like oh some folks from the office she's going to do a show with them it's greenlit but we're not even sure what the show was going to be an office spin -off but then it wasn't yeah and so when Mike make sure and Greg Daniels were creating the show.

[716] They met somebody in Burbank.

[717] It was a woman, I believe, who worked in the government.

[718] She may have worked for the Parks Department, who was a libertarian who wanted to bring down the government.

[719] And so that was the spark of Leslie's boss, of Amy's boss on the show.

[720] And I think it was a little crazy.

[721] I initially read for another part, and then they decided that didn't work.

[722] and they tried to put me on Ron and Ron was I think supposed to be older but somehow I brought that 62 year old flow where they were like oh this guy's way older than these old guys somehow it clicked and they didn't want to believe it NBC spent months where they were like I don't know about Offerman he's like something's not right and they auditioned everybody else and their brother and then finally we're like well we can't find anybody better, so I guess you can cast him.

[723] But so then once they put us in on the roles, then they, great comedy writers, that's their brilliances.

[724] Oh, fuck, yeah.

[725] They look at Dax and they're like, okay, maybe a little too handsome for his own good, you know, maybe athletic, but cocky, so he tries to juggle in the wrong circumstance.

[726] Well, I did get to be on that show once, and I pretty much played that.

[727] I played some guy who had won, like, a bunch of Great Lakes Emmys.

[728] I was like a king of my little world.

[729] Yeah.

[730] I didn't know.

[731] Yeah, I was like...

[732] And on the good place, you were like a demon.

[733] The grossest guy.

[734] Yeah, yeah, it's pretty clear how sure things with me, which is fine.

[735] It's fine.

[736] It's just nice to be thought of.

[737] Exactly.

[738] We were just talking about this with another guest.

[739] It was like, my mom would, like, when are you going to play someone not really stupid?

[740] And I was like, you know, mom, I'm going to play whoever they hire me to play.

[741] Our poor moms.

[742] I know.

[743] It's so hard to understand what's happening out here for them, isn't it?

[744] It is.

[745] But eventually, like, I've gotten kissed a couple of.

[746] times and I'm so happy as soon as I get that job I immediately call my mom and I'm like mom this is totally like a love story I get kissed by Tony Colette and there's no catch I end the protagonist you haven't hypnotized her yeah yeah I hilariously became aware of you pretty soon after I moved here in the late 90s I forget how far I got in the process but it was one of the first things where I got some traction and was getting looked at hard for idiot idiocracy.

[747] Oh, my God.

[748] Yes, you would have been a great freedom.

[749] And I was like, oh, my God, my best friend that I lived with, I was like, I found it.

[750] I found my part.

[751] This guy, all he does is masturbate.

[752] Like, eat a flatcher in.

[753] And something happened out of Chicago.

[754] Similarly, with Sam, the Bob Fawsey greatest actor.

[755] Sam Rockwell.

[756] Sam Rockwell.

[757] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[758] Similar thing where I was like, oh my God, my part for maybe Box of Moonlight.

[759] Some movie where a Chicago castor director was like, it's going to happen.

[760] You're the right weirdo for blah, blah, blah.

[761] And I was like, okay, so that's how this business works.

[762] Someone can tell you it's happening and it can still not happen.

[763] Or it could even happen and then still not happen.

[764] There's like nine ways you get cut out.

[765] It can never see the light of day.

[766] And it was a great lesson.

[767] And then, like, because maybe right around then, IMDB was about to be born.

[768] So you used to not be able to know who the hell somebody would be like, well, what the hell?

[769] Who are they?

[770] Where do they, you know?

[771] Yeah.

[772] But that was the beginning of my list was Sam Rockwell and then you where I was like, okay.

[773] What company?

[774] Fucking weirdos.

[775] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[776] Someone's got to play him.

[777] Yeah, flippy, like masturbating.

[778] Yeah, go away.

[779] The guy in the next cell who's always got his dick out.

[780] Yeah, it's good work.

[781] You get it.

[782] We found our niche.

[783] Yeah, I wasn't complaining.

[784] It's a good group.

[785] I like that.

[786] It is.

[787] It is.

[788] And then pretty quickly, I somehow got shunted because you guys were both in like, there's a sexuality to both you guys that somehow.

[789] That somehow I got shunted over into Rain Wilson, which who I love.

[790] I mean, he was a leader and a philosopher king.

[791] But we were like the guys in the basement that you were like, are they programming a computer?

[792] or a robot and shouldn't be scared of them.

[793] And ultimately, usually it was like, no, they're nice guys.

[794] Yeah, you'll find that out much later, but yeah.

[795] Like Laslo and the real genius.

[796] Whereas like, okay.

[797] Those guys, you're living in the closet.

[798] They were okay after all that.

[799] Great reference, great reference.

[800] Can I tell you my favorite line of that whole thing?

[801] Please.

[802] Oh my God, it led to one of the best stories that ever happened to me is, if you recall, they hated Kent.

[803] He was the antagonist.

[804] Totally.

[805] And at one point, they said, Kent, what were you doing naked with that bowl of jello?

[806] this is a movie yes a real genius with val kilmer has incredible performance the movie's fantastic and i was maybe 14 when i watched that movie i don't know and i was like oh a bowl of jello that would feel fantastic but we did not eat jello in my house and i promised you it was in my mind for about nine years and i finally moved l .a and i was in my one -bitter apartment in santa monica and literally like a light bulb.

[807] I was like, I have a car, I've got money, and Savon sells Jell -O.

[808] Went to Sav -on.

[809] They were selling Jell -Fes for $5 for a dollar.

[810] I was like, this is meant to be.

[811] I brought the Jello home.

[812] I already told the story.

[813] I'm not going to...

[814] We haven't heard it in a long time, though I will say that.

[815] So I go home and I make this jello and I make it in like a mason jar type thing.

[816] One color, please.

[817] Red.

[818] It's relevant.

[819] Yeah, it's a very relevant part of this story.

[820] I believe that flavor is cherry.

[821] Go on.

[822] So I make it I've never made it in my life I make it I put it in the jello And then I sit in my lazy boy Like I'm waiting for a call girl to come over Like I'm just like fucking firm up already Right like I keep checking it in the fridge And finally I get it out of the fridge And I think I was too well I learned I was too early Because I put my dick in this thing I'm in my kitchen I'm standing I'm like I shouldn't go to my bed In case I get somewhere So I'm literally in my kitchen I put my dick in a couple pumps And I'm just fucking a glass of Kool -Aid It's just a mess and the shit's getting all over the floor and I'm like this was a total disaster I can't believe I want to do this forever go to bed, wake up the next morning go to pee, look at my dick I'm like I have a weird rash on my dick I thought oh it's kind of like when you take a black light like what occurred to me was oh my God this is exposed an STD I have that was my conclusion I don't have insurance I go to this free clinic in L .A. I cannot tell them I fucked the thing of jello so I tell them that my girlfriend and I were experimenting with jello, okay?

[823] So I'm in this little curtained off area and I'm waiting for the doctor to come in.

[824] The doctor comes in and I'm promising you, Nick, that she was out of a casting office.

[825] She was like, she must have been a day out of med school.

[826] She was so beautiful.

[827] It was impossible.

[828] Oh, my God.

[829] And she says, let me see what's going on.

[830] I pull my penis out.

[831] And she gets down like on her knees and her face is right in front of my penis.

[832] And she's looking, looking, and she goes, I promise.

[833] She goes, what flavor was the jello?

[834] And I go, I was like, I think cherry or strawberry.

[835] And she goes, oh, I like some other flavor.

[836] And when she said I like the other flavor, I became fully aroused because I was 21 years old.

[837] So now I have a raging boner in front of this person's face.

[838] The whole thing was a fucking disaster.

[839] I don't have an SDD.

[840] She's like, it's nothing.

[841] I go home, I finally get a girlfriend, Brie, we're living together.

[842] And many, many times after dinner, she says, do you want jello?

[843] Oh, no, I don't want any jello.

[844] Because she sees I have four boxes of jello in the cupboard.

[845] I go, no, I don't want any jello.

[846] I don't want any jell.

[847] Finally, she's like, why don't you have jell if you don't want it?

[848] And I just blurt it out finally.

[849] I don't eat jello.

[850] I fucked a thing of jello, and there's four left.

[851] Oh, my God.

[852] It was on sale.

[853] Yeah.

[854] I couldn't pass it up.

[855] Oh, my God.

[856] I don't even know how he got on that.

[857] I see Kristen Bell.

[858] I'm going to shake her hand.

[859] Fulsomely Because that is When I say to people That when I met my wife And I realized I was going to marry her Pretty quickly I came to understand That it was an act of self -preservation Like I was saving my own life Because of stories like that Because I'm a jello fucker I mean We come by at us You know we love the movies we love to make love you know that's right that's right okay so um you had a line from real genius that's how this started there's an old joke by the way from a long time ago where a guy keeps going to the doctor with an orange dick and he can't the doctor can't figure it out and he's the guy eventually you know after the three go -rounds the guy's like i don't know i go home i uh get home from the grocery store, I ate a bunch of cheese balls and then and then read a Playboy magazine.

[860] I used to tell people that and they never believe me, but it is the fucking true.

[861] They had the best interviews of all time.

[862] My favorite interview I've ever read in my life is a Nolan Wilson interview in Playboy.

[863] And truly, I did have a subscription to that magazine.

[864] And by the way, I need something more raucous than what was going on in Playboy.

[865] So I really just got it for those juicy interviews.

[866] sure and no one ever believed that no i mean it's because it's so typical it's so cliche but i'm telling i'll admit to fucking jello so i you can believe me when i say that the playboy wasn't doing it for me absolutely and also once i began to read because even a teenager eventually runs out of steam and so you're like all right well no what's this uh bert reynolds interview boom great one i own that one and then you come to realize oh there's like a hunter s thompson quality to this journalist that there's a licentiousness that's allowable in here.

[867] Yes.

[868] It brings a level of candor that you don't find elsewhere.

[869] I totally agree.

[870] So back to the fortitude, we have a great friend, our friend Jess.

[871] He is 6 '7, he is openly gay.

[872] He is so specific.

[873] Red hair, bright red hair.

[874] Right red hair, 6 foot 7.

[875] And over the years, it's like, I can see the temptation.

[876] It's like, coming in and read for this thing.

[877] Well, I got to kind of be butch, I'll tell me. Like, I got to be.

[878] And, of course, it's easy for me to say, so I'm not him, but I'll be like, man, just stay exactly who you are.

[879] Like, that's the thing.

[880] But it's fucking hard, man. It is so hard.

[881] Well, especially 99 % of actors start out broke.

[882] Yeah, exactly.

[883] And so it's not a matter of artistic integrity.

[884] It's like I had a molar when I moved here from Chicago with a hole in it that I could fit a peppercorn in this molar, which was handy on a hike.

[885] But eventually I was like, man, I really should probably have this looked at.

[886] And I've heard tell of medical, like SAG and dental plans.

[887] And so it's literally a matter of like pay my rent, buy my food, get my health insurance.

[888] And so you end up doing, like we all have horror stories of the worst crap that you're so excited.

[889] Like, I did it.

[890] I got a full week's paycheck that's worth three months of carpenter wages.

[891] Or getting taft heart lead.

[892] Oh, my God.

[893] What was the commercial?

[894] Yeah.

[895] Lip cream for guys who blow a lot of dudes.

[896] Yes, I'll take that.

[897] 100%.

[898] Do you have a specific memory of the absolute low point?

[899] Well, as far as like being hired to do something and then getting there and going, the excitement's worn off and now I'm doing that.

[900] It was pretty potent.

[901] And I have to say, I mean, I'm going to disparage a person in this story.

[902] Uh -oh.

[903] And he deserves it.

[904] but like but we all but we all have the capability of being this person i mean the older i get the more i learn the more about humanity sinks in that requires nuance and empathy because i could be that asshole tomorrow but it was in the late 90s and me and my roommate got cast on this show called i think just profiler she was a very good actress she works for the fbi and she's a profiler she has like a supernatural ability to like suss out serial killers and shit and I want to say it was on ABC and me and my roommate were cast we were thrilled because we both were from Chicago and we were cast as buddies like a serial killing team sure he had like a deformed hand and so I would catch like girls for him to have his way with and then we would have to you were just a wing man for I was I was the enabler and I was the candy man and then we would have to dispose of the girls and we get the job we're so excited we'd just been in town a few months and I remember coming from theater where we're snotty to a fault where it's like we perform the works of literature like would you say this scene is more Chicovian or is this an Ibsen thing and I remember calling like the casting director being like in the breakdown and in the scenes it just says Southern.

[905] These guys are Southern.

[906] I was like, is this Dallas?

[907] Is it New Orleans?

[908] Is it Georgia?

[909] Is this Hard Ars?

[910] Or is it Gentile ours?

[911] And they were like, it's fucking Southern.

[912] Like, do what you did for the audition.

[913] And I was like, oh my God, this is going to be on TV.

[914] And these people are treating it like garbage.

[915] They don't care.

[916] So we go do the thing.

[917] And that sort of set the tone where it was like, they're cranking out this.

[918] fodder.

[919] And in a nutshell, the actor Robert Davy was like number three on the show.

[920] I don't know what he was going through, but he was having a bad time at home, I'm guessing.

[921] And he was taking it out on the company.

[922] Oh, no. So we're getting ready to shoot a scene.

[923] You've got 50 people.

[924] Okay, let's settle.

[925] So let's roll sound.

[926] Okay, Robert, are you ready?

[927] And he would start singing, I got to be me. Or he would start acting out.

[928] And I'm, what, I'm 27, he's probably 44 or something.

[929] And he's been in movies and stuff.

[930] And I'm like, what the fuck is going on here?

[931] This guy has made it.

[932] Yeah.

[933] He's won the lottery.

[934] And he's being a dick.

[935] He's being like a spoiled kid to all these people.

[936] And I went to theater school.

[937] Like, I want to tenaciously cling to the hope that we're, like, making art. that we're doing storytelling as medicine to society but you're really fucking you're pulling that real thin over there man and he just he would continuously do that would like act out to let everyone know then he would begin arguing about like not having enough dialogue or if someone else got the blow line or the laugh line and I was like oh wow this is okay this is a huge education so I mean the end of the story and this is the actual cautionary tale part because I wouldn't begrudge anybody for taking any job to get your tooth fixed.

[938] But the cautionary tale part is it's the first time I got on like a network show like this.

[939] I called everybody across the country.

[940] I had a viewing party because it was me and my roommate and we all sit down to watch the show and opening credits and there's our names.

[941] Everybody cheers.

[942] And the show starts.

[943] And just immediately we're like, Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Turn it off.

[944] Turn it up.

[945] Don't want, like, oh, no. My mom's watching this.

[946] Like, this is so bad.

[947] And I told everyone to watch it.

[948] I've had similar experiences in it.

[949] And the thing that is such great life advice is like, oh, yeah, this story I told myself where if I get that thing, I'm going to be happy.

[950] Well, I'm witnessing someone have the exact thing I want.

[951] It doesn't seem to be having any impact on their well -being.

[952] That's a good thing to witness.

[953] I've met a couple of the Titans in the comments.

[954] comedy world and have noticed that they are pretty much miserable and I'm like good I mean not good for them but I need to see that it's not going to it's not going to cure any ailment of mine you know what in that very same apartment where we had that horrible watch party a friend of mine who was from the Chicago theater community of John Cusack and Jeremy Piven and that group he was good buddies with them and our buddy was was over visiting and John Cusack was coming to pick him up to go play basketball and we hadn't met him like we were quietly like holy shit yeah john kusack blows in the front door of our house screaming at and this is early like we didn't have a cell phone yet he's got a cell phone this is like 99 or something and he's like like screaming at somebody on the phone like fuck you i'm not no i'm not budging fuck you hang up so sorry guys paul are you ready let's go and they leave more like okay take it easy and he blows out of there and later we learn that he was screaming at his agent that he had optioned a property that he was developing into a book into a script and he was screaming about the changes that the studio wanted to make to this script and it comes from this this venerated piven theater institute in evinston like that guy comes from artistry and i just really identified with this where he was screaming about basically a studio being like, okay, let's take this character.

[955] What if we make the chick a black guy?

[956] And what about, what if the frog can sing?

[957] You know, like they're making these notes.

[958] And me and my roommates were like, let's just take a breath here and take note of the fact that you can be John Cusack, who was a list movie star.

[959] And you can still be screaming at people to try and make your art the way you want.

[960] Yeah.

[961] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[962] Well, because that's another thing is you fall for this fantasy that you will never hear a no again.

[963] Like, that making it really means you're going to have full license to do what you want.

[964] That just, for good reason, doesn't ever happen.

[965] No. Yeah.

[966] Or that if you get into a project that has a big budget or big names on it, that automatically means it's good.

[967] Right.

[968] That also never happens.

[969] Yeah.

[970] Like, when you're lucky enough to win the lottery enough that you get to, like, pick stuff, You get to read a bunch of stuff and pick one.

[971] You're like, oh, wow, actually, there's a lot of really bad stuff.

[972] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[973] Well, your whole lens changes.

[974] It's just like any script you got to read was like opportunity.

[975] And now it's just a different paradigm.

[976] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[977] This is a question that I have, of course, rooted in my own egocentricity, which is like, I dated a famous woman, then married a famous woman.

[978] And you fell in love and got married to Megan.

[979] And there was a good chunk there where she was quite, quite famous and quite successful.

[980] And you were trying to just cobble together jobs, I assume, at that point.

[981] I've had that experience in it's to watch someone rightfully be frustrated with having too much work while you are so hungry for some work.

[982] For me, was a lot of mental gymnastics?

[983] I wonder, was that easy for you or was that hard for you at all?

[984] People kept telling me that it should be hard.

[985] It was interesting.

[986] People in her life told her, be careful about this broke basement -dwelling theater troll.

[987] Which, by the way, isn't terrible advice.

[988] No, it's not.

[989] Absolutely.

[990] Exercise caution in this town, for sure.

[991] 100%.

[992] But I don't know.

[993] Again, I come from such good parents that I was having a very bad time for two or three years when I first got here.

[994] I couldn't make the transition from the Chicago theater community.

[995] where I was making my living 24 -7 in the theater.

[996] And then I moved to L .A., and I absolutely, foolishly assumed that L .A. would be a better theater town than Chicago because it's where all the actors and writers are.

[997] Right.

[998] And it turns out that's not the case because all of those people are trying to work in film and TV as opposed to theater.

[999] They can commit to something like, yeah.

[1000] Absolutely.

[1001] And nobody's going out to the theater because they're all trying to work in the biz.

[1002] And so I was really having a tough time finding my way.

[1003] And so when I started dating Megan and moved in with her, and she was just about to win her first Emmy, it was after the first two years of Will & Grace.

[1004] So she was just a superstar and a legend.

[1005] It didn't occur to me to find a downside in that.

[1006] Like I was a drunk lonely loser.

[1007] You know, I was a drunk, happy carpenter getting kissed.

[1008] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1009] And I really, like, felt like, I happily felt like my life had peaked where I was like, holy shit, I made it.

[1010] And I was working like, I would get like a guest star job.

[1011] I'd get a Sundance movie.

[1012] I was working consistently.

[1013] I was a dependable character actor.

[1014] Right.

[1015] And I were busy.

[1016] I was getting paid as an actor.

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] It wasn't busy.

[1019] It was sporadic.

[1020] It would be like three to four months a year.

[1021] Mm -hmm.

[1022] And otherwise, I was building furniture and working.

[1023] as a carpenter.

[1024] And I was Mr. Malawi.

[1025] Like I would bring her, her slippers and her pipe at the end of the day.

[1026] You know, rubber feet.

[1027] Yeah, keep her dinner warm.

[1028] And I, and I was like, this is incredible.

[1029] That's awesome.

[1030] Good for you.

[1031] That's so healthy.

[1032] It truly is.

[1033] I think what gives you the ability to do that is you have defined yourself in a lot of different ways and not just being an actor.

[1034] And I think that's where all the books you've written.

[1035] That's where the carpentry is.

[1036] Like, I do believe, you have a multifaceted identity that when the one chunk of it, the one slice of the pie wasn't working, you weren't collapsing as an individual, whereas I 15 years ago wasn't pursuing enough things to define myself other than just my job.

[1037] So the value, and that's what your book ultimately is, is imploring people to go outside, go in nature, get in connection with something.

[1038] I think that is what the safety net for you might have been.

[1039] Would you agree?

[1040] That's a big swing.

[1041] Yes, absolutely is the case.

[1042] I wish I could take credit for it that I had the idea.

[1043] Right, right, right.

[1044] Well, if I was wise.

[1045] But instead, I was just following my natural proclivities, which was like, okay, no auditions this week, but I can work.

[1046] I also hung lights for Disney for some years.

[1047] Like, I had work.

[1048] I could pay my rent, but I don't know, my sense say in college, this Kabuki theater teacher who is still a big part of my life named Shozato.

[1049] He married me and Megan with a tea ceremony and like, I had such a Mr. Miyagi experience with him and one of the best wax on, wax off things he ever said to me was to always maintain the attitude of a student.

[1050] And the older I get, the more it sinks in where it simply means stay open and curious, understand that as human beings, we're never done cooking, that we always can be learning something and proving something in our lives and the lives of those around us.

[1051] And that just always allowed me to be like, okay, well, I don't have the opportunity to become a working actor this month, but I can become a fine woodworker or I can learn about agrarianism and I got really into learning about where my food comes from and that led to like oh none of us know where our food comes from right oh none of us know where anything comes from correct we are giving all of our money to corporate interests and with that we give them our agency and say like okay electric company i assume you're going to be cool with the way you extract like here's here's my money i'm sure you're going to be cool about like getting coal and turning that into my electricity, right?

[1052] Because you're not dicks, right?

[1053] Right.

[1054] And you guys, like, from the goodness of your heart, we'll try to figure out how to evolve out of that system, which is really inexpensive for you right now, but you'll take on a higher, right?

[1055] I mean, you'll get your profit margin and half.

[1056] Yeah, okay, fast food company.

[1057] Here's my money.

[1058] I assume that you're concerned with the well -being of the animals.

[1059] And my coronary health.

[1060] and your employees and so yeah like and just across the board and that's if this book is anything it's just it's a trumpet to all of us including me to stay awake to say oh what is the rut what is the consumer rut that i've been drawn into mine is work boots tools SUV you know flannel shirts etc smoker like woodchip smoker like we're all i'm a green egg i'm a green egg man. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1061] I have two smokers.

[1062] One is a green egg and one is from Tulsa.

[1063] It's called a hasty bake.

[1064] Oh.

[1065] My father -in -law, if I had to guess if he had ever had an extramarital affair, which he wouldn't, I would guess it'd be with his big green egg.

[1066] I mean, he, I have had more conversations about that big green egg.

[1067] It's a religion, the big green egg.

[1068] It's a beautiful piece of Japanese engineering.

[1069] They don't fuck around the Japanese.

[1070] Both that and single malt scotch, which are two of my favorite vices.

[1071] Yeah.

[1072] How much are we drinking?

[1073] Me?

[1074] Not much.

[1075] No, not much.

[1076] No, I used to love drinking.

[1077] And then Megan and I used to drink together.

[1078] I mean, we sort of met after we were both over the hill of full revelry.

[1079] Right, right, right.

[1080] And she is an amazing, like, Broadway singer and she has a band.

[1081] So eventually, she just tapered down to nothing.

[1082] She was like, you know what?

[1083] I don't enjoy wine that much.

[1084] like I have so much fun at a party whether I drink or not yeah does it take more or is it give more and she probably was like well I think it's taking more so just for health she just quit outright and so that really that was like okay you start getting real conscious of how much you're drinking when the person next you's not drinking anything so yeah yeah so now I treat it much more like a nice dessert a pair of teeth uh huh well I love those I got to see we have mutual friends Morgan and Dean Dean's involved in those, yeah?

[1085] He is, yeah, yeah, from the get -go.

[1086] Yeah, and you have these amazing commercials for a single mall.

[1087] They speak so highly of you.

[1088] They do, they do.

[1089] Well, it's mutual.

[1090] These are two of the main producers of Parks and Rec, unsung heroes.

[1091] Morgan Second and Dean Holland.

[1092] Dean won Emmys for editing the office and then became, he directed more episodes of Parks and Rec than anybody else.

[1093] He was Kristen's favorite director by a long shot on Good Place.

[1094] He's so talented.

[1095] He is.

[1096] He's an undeniable.

[1097] storyteller.

[1098] And the three of us have this relationship where we make these commercials for Lagovool and Scotch, which is Ron's favorite scotch.

[1099] And it's just one of those things where it's a mutually beneficial relationship where we get to make stupid comedy shorts.

[1100] Yeah.

[1101] I mean, like every dumbass kid has been making our whole lives, but we found someone to pay us and like fly us to Scotland to do it.

[1102] And we just love it.

[1103] We both have benefited greatly from the talent and wisdom of these guys.

[1104] But they just, BTS, people will probably love to hear this.

[1105] Morgan, Dean, and Kristen have a production company called Dunshire, which is from Parks and Rec.

[1106] Dunshire is from Parks and Rec.

[1107] Because it's the game that Adam Scott...

[1108] The cones of Dunshire.

[1109] It's all about the cones.

[1110] The cones of Dunshire.

[1111] So where the deer and antelope play, I want to ask you about one of the specific stories in it because we had the pleasure of interviewing him and I got to say of the you know hundreds of people we've talked to this was one of the people where I really was like I want to go on a walk with this person or I want to I just want to be around this person which is George Saunders like admittedly I hadn't been like a big fan of his work or anything but just hearing him talk about writing in the way he talks about it I was just like man this motherfucker is one of the most special guys I've ever had a conversation with and so I was just delighted to hear that he's part of your book yeah he and Jeff Tweedy and I crazily all met in 2014 and formed just this weird three -way bromance where we all are attached to like the Chicago land area George grew up on the south side Jeff lives there for his whole adult life and I spent my formative years becoming a decent naturalistic actor there and George he sneaks up on you he's like a ninja with his Buddhism because part of it's because he's sounds like he's from the south side of Chicago.

[1112] So he's got kind of a real sort of disarming casualness about him.

[1113] Yeah.

[1114] I feel so unjudged by his kid.

[1115] He's so good at empathy and sort of making the room feel equal.

[1116] Yeah, yeah.

[1117] And I say it in the book that hanging out with Jeff and George, because Jeff Tweedy, same thing.

[1118] Like they both are so good at what they do.

[1119] George writes fiction.

[1120] Jeff makes beautiful music.

[1121] Wilco.

[1122] And they both are such gorgeous.

[1123] poets and philosophers, and so to get to hang out with them, and it's weird because, like, the thing they value in me is sort of ephemeral.

[1124] It's like acting moments.

[1125] You know what I mean?

[1126] It's not something you can hold on a page or, like, put on the record player.

[1127] Yeah, yeah.

[1128] And so I just always feel like the little brother who is really lucky that these two guys are letting me ride and they're transam, and they're like, okay, Nick, this is called Frank Zappa.

[1129] So what do you guys do when you get together?

[1130] I mean, what did you guys do in the book?

[1131] Well, we went hiking for a week in Glacier National Park, which was Jeff's idea, and it was so generous, having described them the way I just did.

[1132] Jeff and I were playing a show together at Largo on New Year's Eve, and I was talking to him about this book idea, and he said, hey, what if me, you and George went somewhere pretty and went walking, and you could, like, use our conversations.

[1133] Wow.

[1134] What a generous offer, Jesus.

[1135] How about you bring your pen and we'll give you a book?

[1136] Exactly.

[1137] How does that sound to you?

[1138] I was like, okay, Jeff, that sounds like a good idea, Jeff.

[1139] Let me make a few calls.

[1140] And so we did.

[1141] And first and foremost, we just love each other and have fun together.

[1142] Yeah.

[1143] And do what anybody does hiking and glacier, which is like, oh, my God, look at that waterfall.

[1144] Holy shit.

[1145] Look at that mountain.

[1146] Look at that cloud, you guys.

[1147] It looks like a fog hat record cover.

[1148] And we also had a guide, which I highly recommend.

[1149] It's something that it's sort of a machismo trope that you should never get a guide.

[1150] This would be my problem, yeah.

[1151] And don't even look at a map.

[1152] Just head off into the woods.

[1153] No, I know where the fucking sun sets.

[1154] And the thing is, that is fun.

[1155] There is something to be said for that quality, but it's also amazing to go to a museum and have somebody who knows what the hell they're talking about.

[1156] It's deeply fascinating.

[1157] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1158] Yeah.

[1159] So we had a really great guide named John.

[1160] And so we also then just got into the history of the land.

[1161] And pretty quickly, the point of my book, which is the lens through which we modern humans, the lens through which we view nature, period.

[1162] A lot of it is wrapped up in our national parks.

[1163] When you think of like conservation, I think of John Muir or Greenpeace or Sierra Club or Yosemite.

[1164] And walking with this historic.

[1165] this guide and looking at this incredible beautiful landscape thinking oh my god look at this untouched beauty and hearing him be like yes we scraped the black feet nation from like the reason this looks so untouched is because we brutally killed all the motherfuckers that used to live here and it's literally indigenous people's day that were that were on to the subject matter right and i had to marvel at my soft white ass in that moment where I was like, I can't believe I can still be surprised by this information.

[1166] Yeah.

[1167] So that really gave it a specific perspective that engendered a lot of conversation about the way we treat one another and empathy in general.

[1168] The idea of the book is to sort of reawaken us to our place in the economy of mother nature, like to back us out of consumerism and capitalism not paying attention to what the channels are telling us but instead to what our watershed and our ecosystem and our animals and basically the health of our of the planet is saying to us people often say we have to save the planet but it's backing our ego out of that and realizing the planet's going to be fine we're going to bear it's us we have to be worried about you won't like this because you already said you've been putting that category but you are so much like rain we had him on and it was like one of my favorite conversations we've ever had he's so thoughtful and sweet but strong and i feel like you guys are very much of the same i take that as a huge compliment but i i look up to rain i mean rain is a holy person yeah and i'm dipshit who appreciates what what he's laying down well i imagine if i were not lucky enough to have this experience kind of often i'd imagine listening to you and going to glacier in the same way people might hear two people talk about meditating, which is just like, it seems daunting.

[1169] So I'm curious from your perspective, because I know personally I need to be in those situations for a minute.

[1170] Like I got to decompress.

[1171] If I drive right now and I get out in Yellowstone, when I get out of the car and be like, yeah, there's a mountain, there's a river.

[1172] It's underwhelming for a minute.

[1173] I got to actually decompress and get out of the frenetic life I have before I actually start experiencing the thing.

[1174] So I would say to, or I'm only guessing, but I imagine a lot of people have the experience where they go to that thing and they're just a little, maybe bored.

[1175] And they might think it's not for them.

[1176] But I guess I would just speaking personally, here's a great example.

[1177] We all went to Sedona.

[1178] I was shooting there, but we had a lot of time off.

[1179] And what we slowly came to just relish was every night we would go lie on the asphalt in front of the house, all of us just in the road.

[1180] and it had been hot out that day, so it was holding heat.

[1181] We lay on our backs and watch the stars.

[1182] And I'm telling you, we would watch the stars for two and a half, three hours.

[1183] And I was like, I am as riveted right now as I am watching devs, by the way.

[1184] Amazing job.

[1185] But it took me a minute to get to that spot, but I was so relieved.

[1186] Remember, I kept saying it.

[1187] I'm so relieved that I haven't actually been permanently damaged by the incessant dopamine dump I get from all the gadgets in the pace.

[1188] But it takes a minute.

[1189] Well, you make a great point.

[1190] And A, thank you for the nice compliment you plugged in there for death.

[1191] I'm very proud of that work.

[1192] No, it's fucking awesome.

[1193] That show is so cool.

[1194] B, one of my last chapters is titled Sedona Blows.

[1195] And the reason is because I hate when people are like, you guys, I found the most amazing burger stand in Highland Park.

[1196] And then you ruin that burger stand for all the regulars.

[1197] Don't go to Sedona.

[1198] Sedona sucks, you guys.

[1199] Oh, I got you.

[1200] Yeah, so does Austin.

[1201] Austin's the worst city in the country.

[1202] I like going there because I like disappointment.

[1203] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1204] But you make a great point, and those are the ruts, those are the consumerist ruts I'm talking about.

[1205] Like when you end up at Yellowstone or Yosemite or Sedona, you're in the mode of consuming not only products, but information.

[1206] So you land somewhere and you think, okay, what have I been told to get out of this?

[1207] And it's like, well, we should get Insta moments.

[1208] We should make some selfies.

[1209] Gotta buy some crystals.

[1210] Yeah.

[1211] But if you can shut all that off, as you point out, and look at the stars or sit next to a creek and just listen to it and let all that other stuff go away, then you remember that you're a mammal in the middle of an ecosystem.

[1212] And literally, it's a live right where you're sitting, which is boggling.

[1213] And that you have a relationship with the stars, with Sedona, with the Creek, and so forth.

[1214] And that's all I'm driving towards.

[1215] The conversation requires a lot of nuance because it's not binary.

[1216] Like, we should still have our channels and our dopamine and all.

[1217] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1218] We're not going to stop civilization, but we can continue to have fruitful, healthy civilization if we can have the channels and dopamine and the stars.

[1219] And just remember that it's all part of the same economy.

[1220] And you're so right, because the first three days I was there, I'm embarrassed to admit.

[1221] All I was thinking about is like, oh, I got to buy a house here, right?

[1222] So all I'm thinking about is I got to buy a house here.

[1223] I got to live here.

[1224] Somehow I got to, I like it.

[1225] So I need to, and I'm looking at, you know, I'm literally zillowing.

[1226] I'm spending so much time with this notion that because I like it, I must own something here.

[1227] Exactly.

[1228] It took me three days and stuff.

[1229] I was like, I'm not going to buy a house here.

[1230] Now, just enjoy this place.

[1231] I like this.

[1232] I must own it.

[1233] Yes.

[1234] A thousand percent.

[1235] It's incredible.

[1236] It is.

[1237] Fuck.

[1238] It's embarrassing.

[1239] It's not, though.

[1240] I mean, that's what we're trained to do.

[1241] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1242] I'm going to tell a quick Rayne Wilson story.

[1243] When he was doing the office, before Parks and Rec happened, as I said, we had known each other, and he was doing well.

[1244] And he called me up and wanted a kitchen table out of White Oak in the style of Gustav Stickley, who was one of the most formative members of, like, the craftsman movement.

[1245] Oh, okay.

[1246] Like a mission style or craftsman white oak kitchen table, beefy -ass table.

[1247] I said, hell yeah.

[1248] And basically I figured out that, and this was early on in my commission work, I figured out that this table should cost probably around maybe $7 ,200 or something like that.

[1249] And then I was like, then I'd take a step back.

[1250] I'm like, you can't ask somebody to pay $7 ,000 for a – I mean, that's the price of a pickup truck.

[1251] this is crazy and I couldn't make that leap and so I drew it up and I sent him the plans and I said it's $5 ,000 and Rain called me up and he said listen man I've been shopping for these tables about $10 ,000 and I said you're a very nice person Ray and I will remember this lesson for the rest of my life I have now copied that gesture because it makes so much sense when you're tipping somebody or doing something that's not going to matter to your pocketbook.

[1252] You can do it with a dollar or with a thousand dollars.

[1253] But to make that gesture when you're the person on the other end, it doesn't matter to me. I'm lucky.

[1254] It's not going to make a dent, but it's going to mean everything.

[1255] It's going to make that kid's table the right price.

[1256] And so if you want to group me in with rain, I'll simply say that it was a privilege to make his kitchen table.

[1257] Oh, I want a kitchen table by you i'll pay you 50 000 well we'll talk because you have to like perform on the table i can probably see my way around to this table of commission well nick this has been so much fun where the deer and antelope play i guess the last thing you air streamed around that's a big part of the book you and megan in 2020 air streamed around and i'm a r v or myself i see that and i got to tell you Man, there is nothing.

[1258] I've never felt a sense of autonomy.

[1259] The way I do when I get that fucking bus going down the road.

[1260] Because I'm like, I don't blow up any city, man. I'll let's go to the one that's that.

[1261] Like, I just feel, oh, my God.

[1262] Yeah, when you are taking your plumbing and a kitchen with you.

[1263] And power.

[1264] Yeah.

[1265] Oh.

[1266] There's nothing like it.

[1267] There really isn't.

[1268] I mean, I know a lot of people aren't drawn to it.

[1269] But, man, I just.

[1270] It's like the canoe.

[1271] Like, you know, there's some safety with it.

[1272] Like, you know you can get out.

[1273] Yeah, I feel like I've got an ejection, like.

[1274] backup plan or something and just while I'm in it it's also I mean great first and foremost it's a huge piece of consumerism it's a huge tour bus so I'm not acting whole here now but at the same time I'm in this little I mean comparatively a very small living environment with my two children and my wife and it's a 20th the size of our living space normally and I go like oh yeah man this is all you need family in a place of shit and cook some food there's something about that too that I get really get off on Absolutely, and a deck of cards.

[1275] Let's party.

[1276] You're good to go.

[1277] Do you play spades?

[1278] We don't.

[1279] Megan and I love to do jigsaw puzzles and listen to audio books at the same time.

[1280] That's nice.

[1281] It's a highly recommended alchemy that combines the two brain channels.

[1282] Yeah.

[1283] Oh, I like that.

[1284] And somehow it heightens both experiences.

[1285] Oh, wow.

[1286] You can really focus in on the audiobook.

[1287] Yeah, because you're doing something just distracting enough that requires just enough attention that it quiets the fucking monkey brain and it allows you to actually take in the other info.

[1288] It does, yeah.

[1289] It is.

[1290] That's exactly it.

[1291] It's why people get ideas in the shower or driving.

[1292] It's like you're doing just enough thing.

[1293] And the rest of the distractions are not allowed in.

[1294] Yes.

[1295] Yeah, you kind of give yourself an artificial capacity.

[1296] Yeah.

[1297] I like this.

[1298] I'm going to try this.

[1299] Oh, my God.

[1300] Can we tell Kristen?

[1301] Because Kristen's a huge puzzler.

[1302] I want to say one more thing because I'm very grateful to be here with you because you guys have a big well -deserved audience.

[1303] And that is, I encourage, one of the things I'm taking apart in this book is a sense of what it means to be an American or to be patriotic because it's something that's very volatile in this day and age.

[1304] And what I'm trying to get into is late in the book, I mentioned the Lee Greenwood song, I'm proud to be an American, and I feel like there's a lot of whiteness surrounding that sentiment and I suggest to Mr. Greenwood, I'd like to see you go to a homeless camp underneath a highway while the Blue Angels fly overhead at $600 ,000 a pop or whatever.

[1305] Yeah, the new one is like $190 million per...

[1306] Yeah, yeah, it's fucking bonkers.

[1307] And ask those homeless people if they're proud to be Americans.

[1308] And basically look at it from that point of view.

[1309] For no other reason is that eventually we're going to have to learn that everybody needs one of the apples.

[1310] As long as we're shooting each other so we can have more of the apples, we're never going to be done.

[1311] We're never going to be done finding kindness and empathy for one another.

[1312] And whether you like that or not, that's what our country's about.

[1313] And so it's funny, like when people find out that the guy playing Ron Swanson is not a shotgun -toting libertarian, they're like, oh, I can't believe what a...

[1314] I get called Beta Boy and Soy Boy.

[1315] All these hilarious snow flaky nicknames where I'm just like, I don't even like.

[1316] Oh, God.

[1317] I know.

[1318] The part of me, the shitty part of me, I got to admit it, I'll read that stuff on my thing too.

[1319] It'll be like, you know, I have a Fauci t -shirt I wear sometimes.

[1320] And I just hear about it left and right from those people in the animal me months ago.

[1321] What parking lot, motherfucker, you're such a badass that you can't wear a mask?

[1322] Like, what parking lot do you want to meet me in and show me what a fucking tough guy you are?

[1323] I get so angry by that.

[1324] Sure.

[1325] Yeah.

[1326] But that's just it.

[1327] I have that in me, too.

[1328] I had a dude in a tram car at the Atlanta airport a couple months ago.

[1329] You know, in a subway car or a tram car, you've got five stops.

[1330] And every stop, more people get on.

[1331] You're like, there's no more room.

[1332] 20 more people get on.

[1333] There's no more room.

[1334] So we're like that.

[1335] Everybody's wearing a mask.

[1336] Halfway down the car, this gym dude, a muscle dude, has this mask under his chin.

[1337] and we make eye contact just coincidentally and I just I tug at the front of my mask where I was like hey man like do your mask and he grabs it under his chin and makes the face of fuck you bro like I'm gonna keep it down here taunt you and I literally had just been listening to George Saunders on a podcast and I took it I was like okay don't like don't punch like don't punch the guy make this worse.

[1338] Don't think I should shove this guy.

[1339] And I was like, that guy, according to what George was just saying, he's broken in some way.

[1340] And the same way we're all broken.

[1341] I totally agree.

[1342] And his brokenness is making him be a dick right now.

[1343] But even just that, even just that thought process there, I'm not thinking about punching him.

[1344] And for me, that's my baby step.

[1345] I say that all the time.

[1346] I say, you know, the hardest people to show empathy for is the dude in the jacked up truck who's rolling.

[1347] and Cole.

[1348] Like it takes everything in me to go.

[1349] Like I got his ass beat by his dad.

[1350] He got molested by his stepdad.

[1351] He's telling the world, don't fuck with me. Like that is what, that's what's going on right now.

[1352] He's screaming to the world.

[1353] Don't fuck with me. I'll fight back.

[1354] And that's so fucking heartbreaking.

[1355] But man, it is the hardest one for me to get to.

[1356] It is, but we're all dealing with that.

[1357] And that's all I'm trying to unpack in this book is like taking a step back and realizing that dude in that truck and the dude pulling his mask down at me. we're all the same bunch of molecules and we're all going to end up in the same redwood trees and his dad probably didn't tell him just don't lie and work hard we don't always know what huge advantage we're walking into a situation with it no it's a great point Nick you're radical this is everything I hoped it could be and somehow we got to combine forces like I need to put a fucking big outboard on one of your canoes or something like we got to synergize I think we know better, but you and me together could sell the biggest reality show.

[1358] Oh my God.

[1359] History of television.

[1360] Yeah.

[1361] Soie boys.

[1362] Just fucking soy boys, maybe.

[1363] Jackass hold our beer.

[1364] Well, Nick, so great to have you.

[1365] I hope everyone gets where the deer in analog play.

[1366] You're wonderful.

[1367] And we're going to do it again because this is now your, what, third book or fourth book?

[1368] Number five.

[1369] Number five.

[1370] God damn.

[1371] So on number six, she'll come back and we'll talk again.

[1372] Thank you so much.

[1373] All right.

[1374] So glad I finally made it.

[1375] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1376] Nick Offerman, who post -interview with him, I bought and downloaded Lincoln and the...

[1377] Bardo.

[1378] Which he narrates.

[1379] He's one of them, right?

[1380] Yeah.

[1381] There's many.

[1382] as is Sedaris.

[1383] Mm -hmm.

[1384] It's a veritable who's who.

[1385] It really is.

[1386] I think there's, let me look it up.

[1387] How many narrate?

[1388] There's so many.

[1389] It was a big deal when it first happened.

[1390] Groundbreaking.

[1391] There are 166 different narrators.

[1392] No. Many of them celebrities.

[1393] Ben Still or Julianne Moore.

[1394] Oh, wow.

[1395] Don Cheadle.

[1396] Bradley Whitford.

[1397] Oh, my goodness.

[1398] Oh, Bill Hater.

[1399] Bill Hater.

[1400] Bill Hater.

[1401] Is he on there?

[1402] Yeah.

[1403] Okay, because there was one voice I was like, I think that's Bill Hater.

[1404] Oh, yeah.

[1405] And I'm relieved to hear it was.

[1406] Yes.

[1407] Okay, Nick Offerman.

[1408] When he was leaving, he started talking about, he told us about scenes from a marriage that we should start watching that or that he was watching it.

[1409] And then I started it and we started it.

[1410] We started it.

[1411] Yeah.

[1412] But I finished it.

[1413] You did?

[1414] Yeah.

[1415] Who, there's a lot.

[1416] Really?

[1417] It is so well done.

[1418] I mean, they are unbelievable, and their chemistry is unbelievable, and they're so good, Oscar Isaac and Jessica Chastain.

[1419] But, wow, it's a lot.

[1420] Yeah.

[1421] It's really intense.

[1422] Yeah.

[1423] And, you know, there's this device they use where at the beginning, which you questioned a bit, but at the beginning of each episode, you actually see.

[1424] BTS.

[1425] Like, you see them.

[1426] You see the actor walk to set.

[1427] Exactly.

[1428] Like, give off, give their coats, sit in their spot, and then you hear action, then the scene starts.

[1429] And we had talked about like, why are they doing that?

[1430] That feels gimmicky, kind of, you know, it didn't bother me. But I, once you brought it up, I started really wondering.

[1431] And then by the end, I was like, I think it's to remind us this isn't real.

[1432] Really?

[1433] Like, it's too much if you don't.

[1434] Because it's so heavy.

[1435] Yeah.

[1436] Interesting.

[1437] I don't know if that's true, but, yeah.

[1438] Yeah, I am really curious what the defense of that mechanism is.

[1439] I'll call it a mechanism instead of a gimmick.

[1440] I said device.

[1441] Device.

[1442] Yeah, that's better.

[1443] That's what it's called.

[1444] Yeah.

[1445] Yeah, not mechanism.

[1446] Device.

[1447] But it's a, if you can.

[1448] I got to get through it.

[1449] I think I've said this before on here, but I would suggest watching it alone.

[1450] Right, right.

[1451] Probably not with your partner.

[1452] Yeah, too much, too much.

[1453] You don't really want to have any.

[1454] I do want you to watch it because I'm curious of your takeaways.

[1455] Well, I already had such a breakthrough in my own thought process, just watching the first three episodes.

[1456] Yeah.

[1457] Oh, my God, I'm this guy.

[1458] Yeah, but I don't think the guy's unsympathetic or likable or anything.

[1459] No, just I could see what it's like to live with me, be engaged with me often.

[1460] Yeah, that you search for life.

[1461] Yeah.

[1462] Obsessively.

[1463] Can't really, until we've, like, gotten to that point, I'm seemingly uncooperative to even explore the, yeah, it's, I, uh, I was able to see that there's some big challenges with the way I approach things.

[1464] Because if I was dating me, I would want to scream like, and who cares?

[1465] Shut up.

[1466] And this is how I feel and we don't need to know why.

[1467] Like, I can imagine just going like, how about just take my feelings as they are?

[1468] and sit with them and not try to solve them or get to the rue of them or correct them.

[1469] Yeah.

[1470] And I wouldn't say that's a through line necessarily.

[1471] I mean, I guess, I mean, that's built into the personality of the character, but it doesn't feel, it doesn't feel like they're trying to declare anything about these types of people or whatever.

[1472] It's just like people are, it's just really hard.

[1473] for two people to be together.

[1474] And life is so complicated.

[1475] And I don't think that, yeah, I don't, I didn't think that the show itself was making him to blame because he's the way he is.

[1476] I just, yeah, it's rare that I would identify so much with the character and then be able to see the impact on the other person.

[1477] I do think ultimately, like, she was craving this passionate emotional reaction and he lives in a world of logic.

[1478] And that's part of the divide.

[1479] Yeah.

[1480] You got to keep watching.

[1481] I'll keep watching.

[1482] There's some evolution.

[1483] Oh, okay, great.

[1484] Yeah.

[1485] But that was Nick's rack, and it was a good one.

[1486] Good wreck, Nick.

[1487] Very good.

[1488] He should do a thing called Nick's Rex.

[1489] Whether it's a blog or a podcast, Nick's Rex.

[1490] Nix and Rex.

[1491] Nix and Rex.

[1492] Parks and Rex reference.

[1493] Oh, okay.

[1494] That was a bit of a leap.

[1495] That was a stretch.

[1496] Yeah, okay.

[1497] Well, I know you're going.

[1498] away tomorrow and so am I. Yes, we are.

[1499] Are you excited about your trip?

[1500] I'm going home and I am excited.

[1501] Oh, good.

[1502] Yeah.

[1503] Your mom's going to spoil you.

[1504] She already asked me if I'm still drinking oatmeal.

[1505] Yeah, she wants to know what groceries they have in the fridge.

[1506] It's nice to be taken care of sometimes.

[1507] It is incredibly nice.

[1508] Yeah.

[1509] What are you looking forward to most?

[1510] Screaming Mom, I want a milkshake?

[1511] No. Okay.

[1512] Too cold for milkshake.

[1513] Oh, okay.

[1514] Mom, I want a hot chocolate.

[1515] Oh, I, she, we do drink hot chocolate, yeah.

[1516] Oh, wow.

[1517] And then you're going to the sand dunes for a boy's trip.

[1518] That's right.

[1519] And the hits just keep on coming.

[1520] They keep on coming.

[1521] I bitched about it yesterday.

[1522] Lock, I didn't have keys for the lock where it broke.

[1523] And I ended by bolt cutters.

[1524] Yeah.

[1525] I get a grinder.

[1526] Then my clutch, I told you that.

[1527] My clutch isn't working correctly.

[1528] Or rather, the cylinders that control the clutch, which caused me to exit the trailer, radically, break the cable.

[1529] But then it didn't stop.

[1530] Then Charlie came over with another trailer that I know fits two four -seater razors.

[1531] I've had them in there before.

[1532] Charlie and I put one in first, then the other one.

[1533] That didn't work.

[1534] We deflated the tires.

[1535] Then we flipped them around.

[1536] I mean, it was Tetris.

[1537] And we both looked at each other and we said, this isn't happening.

[1538] We finally threw in the towel, which I don't think Charlie and I have shared a defeat.

[1539] That was our first big defeat together.

[1540] And we tried to talk our way out of it, but it was a defeat.

[1541] I'm still not surrendered.

[1542] I think there might be waited for me to elevate one of these things pretty high.

[1543] That's kind of what I dreamt of last night.

[1544] Maybe I can get two in one trailer.

[1545] I don't know.

[1546] But anyways, I have a long list.

[1547] Very few of the things are checked off of it.

[1548] And we're down to, I guess, you know, 16 hours before departure.

[1549] Well, it's our last episode before Thanksgiving.

[1550] Oh.

[1551] So what are you thankful for?

[1552] So many things.

[1553] So many things.

[1554] Everyone I know in my life currently, which is a rarity, is healthy.

[1555] that's huge my kids are happy like it's good it's really good um this has been an incredible year of the podcast that's incredibly good i feel safer than i've ever felt that's nice what do you why do you think money like i've i've disengaged the part of my brain that's on a hamster wheel about financial security yeah i've had like some months and months of no longer obsessing about that and I wish it was a gift I could have given myself but I didn't yeah but yeah I think it's it's impacted me in a good way yeah yeah that's nice how about you what are you grateful for I'm grateful for our community I got a haircut the other day and Jenny Cho who cut it she knows this group Well, she does Kristen's hair.

[1556] And I forget we were talking about, but some party or something.

[1557] And she was like, you guys are so lucky.

[1558] And I was like, yeah, we are.

[1559] We really, really are.

[1560] Absurdly lucky.

[1561] Yeah.

[1562] She's like, you know, there's always someone to celebrate.

[1563] There's always, I'm like, yeah, that's really true.

[1564] It's very rare and special.

[1565] And I do feel that I've been given the gift of unconditional friendship my whole life, which is incredibly lucky.

[1566] I think so.

[1567] Truly.

[1568] You have to have community, to have friends, to be social.

[1569] For me, it's always a big relief from the oppression of my own brain is to be around other people.

[1570] I get distracted, luckily, by them enough that I can't obsess about all my many obsessions.

[1571] Yeah.

[1572] And I'm excited about us eating together.

[1573] I'm going to cook two stuffings.

[1574] You are?

[1575] Yeah, because I want to try these.

[1576] two recipes.

[1577] That's music to my ears because I am of the opinion that stuffing shouldn't be one -tenth of the meal.

[1578] It should be like 40 % of the meal.

[1579] I agree.

[1580] It's the best part.

[1581] It goes so quick.

[1582] Every Thanksgiving I've ever attended, people are all over that stuffing and the gravy.

[1583] Those things are gone and heartbeat.

[1584] And then you got piles of turkey.

[1585] No one's touching.

[1586] There's a bunch of carrots that were baked.

[1587] People are dabbling in them.

[1588] But it's that stuffing.

[1589] That's why we all came.

[1590] Oh, I'm so excited.

[1591] I'm trying my Chef's stuffing, Allison Roman, and a Bon Appetit Stuffing as well.

[1592] I'm going to eat the hell out of it.

[1593] Okay.

[1594] Do you think Pee Pee will get a carcass this year?

[1595] Oh, wow.

[1596] Maybe I should bring her a carcass.

[1597] I loved how happy she was when she got that carcass.

[1598] Yeah.

[1599] I wanted to get another.

[1600] She, what do we think?

[1601] I think it was Barb.

[1602] I thought Pee Pee P .C. got cocoa in her mouth.

[1603] Right, right.

[1604] It really looked like Pee Pee had devoured it.

[1605] Because our dogs weren't there, I don't think.

[1606] But yeah, Barb would be there.

[1607] the most logical first stop, she was the most fragile.

[1608] That's right.

[1609] Now, whiskey's taken her spot.

[1610] Yeah, but people know to be scared of whiskey.

[1611] Well, he's got a bark.

[1612] And a bite.

[1613] He bites everyone.

[1614] It's so soft.

[1615] He's got like mushy teeth and you know his mastoid's weak.

[1616] You're fine.

[1617] If you're ever over at my house, this is to anyone and you get attacked by whiskey, just let him go at it.

[1618] It doesn't hurt.

[1619] Just be nice.

[1620] Yeah, his teeth are mushy.

[1621] Like Cedaras, he's got quicksand gums, and it'll pose no threat.

[1622] Okay, that's good to know.

[1623] Now, Frank, kick him.

[1624] You see him coming at you?

[1625] Kick him.

[1626] Yeah.

[1627] Let him know that you're the boss or he'll bite you.

[1628] He will.

[1629] I hate that.

[1630] God, you have two biters.

[1631] I know, I hate it.

[1632] Yeah.

[1633] It's not cool that if you come to our house, there's a chance you're going to get nipped at.

[1634] I don't like that about this household I'm a part of.

[1635] I want to be a place where people can come over and not get bit.

[1636] Yeah, I think that's like a low bar.

[1637] I think so.

[1638] One that I've always had, but now it's gone.

[1639] All bets are off with Frank.

[1640] Yeah.

[1641] People might like this.

[1642] I came up a little motto for Frank.

[1643] Franks, but no Franks.

[1644] Oh, that's cute.

[1645] That's what I say to him when he's getting a little crazy.

[1646] Oh, that's fine.

[1647] You know, Franks, but no Franks.

[1648] That's great.

[1649] Okay, a couple facts, just a couple.

[1650] Yeah.

[1651] How much are vaccine passports, the fake ones?

[1652] I was looking this up, but then I started to get paranoid about looking it up, like I'm going to get tracked or something being flagged.

[1653] I saw, like, some for two.

[1654] 250, and then one article was saying they're down to 100.

[1655] Oh, that's great.

[1656] Yeah, so those are options for people out there.

[1657] Are there any coupons people can clip to reduce that?

[1658] I wouldn't be surprised.

[1659] How many Emmys did Megan win?

[1660] She is best known for playing Karen Walker on the NBC sitcom Willing Grace, for which she received eight primetime Emmy Award nominations for outstanding supporting actors in a comedy series winning twice in 2000 and 2006.

[1661] Yeah.

[1662] God bless those people who go after they've lost six, seven, eight, nine.

[1663] We've had some people that, like, lost 11 times.

[1664] You remember Ed, Ed Shearon was talking about that?

[1665] Yeah, yeah.

[1666] What do we come up with?

[1667] Fool me once, shame on me. Oh, no, I came up.

[1668] Fool me once, shame on thee.

[1669] Fool me twice shame on me. Yeah.

[1670] It's conventionally, fool me once shame on you.

[1671] Full me twice shame on me. But why not make it rhyme?

[1672] You love a rhyme.

[1673] I love a rhyme.

[1674] Fool me once shame on thee.

[1675] I'm grateful for rhymes.

[1676] Oh, that's one of your gratitude.

[1677] Yeah, adding that to my list.

[1678] I think I'm thankful for.

[1679] It's good.

[1680] All right.

[1681] That was it, the Emmy total?

[1682] Yeah, wait, did I have any more?

[1683] I thought you said two, and then you said one.

[1684] No, I said two.

[1685] Vaccine passports.

[1686] Oh, you did, and you delivered on both.

[1687] Also, Nick is going to build me a table.

[1688] Right.

[1689] I haven't checked back in on it.

[1690] Uh -huh.

[1691] But I take that as a promise.

[1692] What we learned is that he gives people a lower price than what he deserves.

[1693] Oh, I'm going to rain Wilson in it.

[1694] Okay, great.

[1695] Okay, great.

[1696] Don't worry.

[1697] I think I said you remind me of him.

[1698] Right.

[1699] And then he told this beautiful story about him.

[1700] Yeah.

[1701] It's almost as if you were setting him up.

[1702] Sim.

[1703] Oh, I'm grateful for the Sim.

[1704] Praise be to the Sim.

[1705] And it's bounty.

[1706] I hope you have a wonderful boy's trip.

[1707] I hope you have an incredible trip to Duluth, Georgia.

[1708] Thank you.

[1709] Eat some Chrissies for me. Oh, I will.

[1710] Oh, speaking of that, I do want to shout out Cal Penn, who we have had on this program, who's wonderful.

[1711] He has a book out.

[1712] He sent it to me, and he sent me a gift card for Cassies.

[1713] For white Cassies.

[1714] Yeah.

[1715] Yeah.

[1716] He knew what he was doing.

[1717] He knows the quickest way to your heart.

[1718] Cassies and Chrissies.

[1719] That's right.

[1720] All right, I love you.

[1721] Oh, wait, I'm so sorry.

[1722] I have to say one thing that just reminded me. It might take it in a little bit of a different direction, which you, I'm sorry.

[1723] I know you're in a hurry.

[1724] But Diwali was recently, I'm not pronouncing that right.

[1725] It's an Indian holiday.

[1726] It's like the most popular Indian holiday.

[1727] I thought you were saying a guess.

[1728] I'm like, we had a guest named De Wally and I have forgotten that.

[1729] No. Anyway, a lot of prominent Indians had a party.

[1730] They did.

[1731] And I was not invited.

[1732] Oh, my God.

[1733] Who was at the party?

[1734] Mindy.

[1735] Oh.

[1736] Husson?

[1737] Oh, fuck.

[1738] I didn't see Husson in that picture.

[1739] Then I feel fine.

[1740] Yeah, if he wasn't there.

[1741] But I'm sure he was invited.

[1742] Was it really a Desi blowout without Hussin?

[1743] I don't think so.

[1744] That's true.

[1745] But I think Cal Penn was there and then Mina Harris was there and like, ugh.

[1746] Fuck.

[1747] I know.

[1748] And then I felt really excluded.

[1749] I had a roller coaster.

[1750] It's like, oh, man, this is what I did to myself.

[1751] I kept myself out of that group so I could be a part of this other group.

[1752] You turned your back on your community like OJ.

[1753] I did, but I'm also, I'm trying to be honest about my feelings.

[1754] I know.

[1755] They don't like my honesty.

[1756] No, I think they relate a lot of people.

[1757] Mostly it's all I hear is that people relate to your honesty.

[1758] Well, they're not throwing families.

[1759] fancy parties.

[1760] Well, that's a good point.

[1761] Anyway, I just wanted to make that clear.

[1762] Well, so it sounds like you'd like to be invited to the next year's.

[1763] Well, that was the other thing.

[1764] Then I was like, okay, if I was invited, would I feel self -conscious?

[1765] Probably.

[1766] And then I am a woman without a house.

[1767] A woman without a country.

[1768] That's right.

[1769] That's right.

[1770] That's what I meant.

[1771] I'd go in a second if I got invited.

[1772] I know you would.

[1773] Would you bring me as a plus one?

[1774] Yeah.

[1775] Okay.

[1776] You could go and be like, I went.

[1777] I mean, but I wasn't invited.

[1778] Like, you could best of both worlds.

[1779] Oh, interesting.

[1780] I only went to make Dax happy.

[1781] Okay.

[1782] You can, like, dance on the fence here.

[1783] That's a good entree.

[1784] You can have it both ways.

[1785] Ding, ding, ding, d 'ing, entree Thanksgiving.

[1786] All right, I love you.

[1787] I love you, too.

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