Rachael Ray

[0] Welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert.

[1] I'm Dach Shepherd.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Padman.

[3] Hi.

[4] Hello there.

[5] Hello.

[6] Well, if anyone loves a celebrity cook at you.

[7] Well, look, my chef's video didn't come out until a couple hours after it was supposed to come out.

[8] Oh, no. Is there technological difficulties?

[9] Oh, my gosh.

[10] And I was on the run.

[11] I guess you'd say.

[12] Yeah.

[13] I would say you've replaced celebrities with chefs.

[14] chefs.

[15] Yeah.

[16] Yeah.

[17] Yeah.

[18] It's a neat evolution.

[19] Well, today's celebrity chef.

[20] She doesn't even call herself a chef, which is part of why I love her.

[21] She's a cook, she says.

[22] Rachel Ray.

[23] Rachel Ray is a businesswoman, and she's a best -selling author.

[24] She's written a ton of very successful books.

[25] She has, of course, the Rachel Ray Show, 30 -minute meals, and she has a new book out called This Must Be the Place, Dispatches and Food from the Homefront.

[26] It has 125 recipes in it from her home.

[27] kitchen in upstate New York and a lot of stories of loss and gratitude as we will learn she's been through a bunch this last year and a half so please enjoy rachel ray wondery plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now join wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts he's an armchair How are you doing?

[28] Where are we catching you?

[29] You have a beautiful fireplace roaring behind you.

[30] It feels very autumnal and fall -like.

[31] We're doing really well.

[32] I mean, considering the last couple of years, this was a house that we built for guests.

[33] I tried to design it to make it look and feel like our home.

[34] We had our home for 15 years before it burned down.

[35] And this place we've only had for a couple of years, and thank God we did, because when our home burned into the ground, we still thankfully had a roof over our head.

[36] It has a big feeling to it.

[37] Yeah.

[38] And we've been happily safe and employed here for a long time now.

[39] So it's actually going to be very strange moving back into the home that burned down because this now feels like home.

[40] We've been here since August 9th of last year when we watched our home of about 15 years burn literally into the ground and into the foundation.

[41] So, I mean, it's trippy.

[42] Like I said, there goes, I have these funny -shaped ears.

[43] And every time I try and put headphones in, they just fall out.

[44] I'm with you.

[45] I have a very hard time keeping hold of my headphones when they're in my ears, too.

[46] I feel like my ear canals, like, maybe pointed down.

[47] down or something and maybe it's self -lubricating too much.

[48] Something makes it nearly impossible.

[49] You do make a lot of wax.

[50] I make a lot of wax.

[51] Thank you for pointing that out.

[52] Well, I suppose I do too because even if Food Network 20 years ago, they tried to put an IFB and me, and even if they put double -sided tape on and tried to shove it into my ear, if I smiled too hard, it would fall into the pan.

[53] It would fall into the food.

[54] So they just gave up after a while.

[55] I've had the exact same experience where it just keeps falling out and I keep like I'm in the middle of the game show and I'm like putting it back in and finally I just lose it and I just put it in my pocket like fuck it I don't give a fuck what I'm missing like we're going to do this like it's 1972 like somehow it happened without these then yes yes so if they can't hand signal it or write it on a card I simply don't know it which is wildly evident if anyone has watched me in the last 20 years of course you're here to promote you have so many projects I mean we could just really promote things you're involved with all episode long, but this must be the place is a book you have that you've just completed.

[56] And first and foremost, is this an intentional talking heads not or no?

[57] Yeah, it is.

[58] My two favorite single artists of all time are David Byrne and David Bowie.

[59] And I think the most important band for me is the Beatles.

[60] But I chose that phrase on purpose because over the last few years, I felt like John and I've been together 20 years, you've been married 16.

[61] and I felt like everything about our lives changed over the last just several months, everything.

[62] Our idea of what privacy is, our idea of what home is, our idea of what a safe place is.

[63] Everything just went away, how we deal with loss, what real gratitude is.

[64] And I just wanted to put something down on paper I'm 53 years old, and it's the first time in my life that's something like this, the pandemic, of course, happened to the entire planet at the same time and everyone can relate to some level of just everything changing and pivoting.

[65] And so I wrote it to just chronicle that and try and make peace with it.

[66] And I also, of course, wrote about the food that changed and progressed over that period of time too.

[67] So it's kind of a weird mashup of essay, a memoir of a short period of our lives and only about a third of actually the food that I wrote and prepared during that time.

[68] I was very upset with how much got kind of cut from it because I was so proud of how much work we produced in such a short time.

[69] John and I have done well over 200 shows with just the two of us here.

[70] And John is a lawyer by day and has a rock band by night and never wanted to pick up a camera in his life.

[71] And I never wanted to let anybody into our home because I have an unscripted show.

[72] I have an unscripted life, and I feel like I share as much as I can.

[73] So when I go home, that was my quiet space where I could just write and paint and play with the dog and be in the woods.

[74] I've grown up in the Anuronic Mountains, largely.

[75] I am a country mouse.

[76] It was really hard for me to cross that threshold, to bring people into my last private space in life.

[77] Well, hold on, Rachel, you still have the bathroom, okay?

[78] That's still yours, unless I don't know and you've taken people in.

[79] But you do point out something that is interesting.

[80] I think for a lot of people, especially young people, pre -pandemic, your apartment or your house could literally just be where you're going to go to sleep.

[81] You're out all the time.

[82] You work.

[83] You're social.

[84] And I think for the first time, where you were dwelling became where, you were at 365 so i imagine people started really evaluating whether this is the space they want to be in whether they like it whether they hate it i think that the big housing rush is a comment on that that people were like oh i want to love my surroundings more than i ever have wanted to and the notion that your house burnt down i mean not to laugh at it but it is it's almost comical that in the moment you would probably be feeling like thank god we did this and we have a place up with, I'm assuming you're on property and in nature.

[85] The notion that at the apex of maybe being grateful for that, that it caught on fire, which I didn't know about.

[86] First of all, how did it catch on fire?

[87] Who can we blame?

[88] Is John to blame?

[89] No, no. Quite literally, the fireplace burped.

[90] Creasota built up in the chimney.

[91] And I had my fireplace cleaned twice a year because it's cold here most of the year.

[92] even in the summer you get really cool nights and the fire just looks pretty and I designed the house so that you could see the fire through the entire house it's very raised into the room and a bench made out of the stone from the backyard on either side it's very present wherever you're standing from the kitchen through the living space everyone can see everyone you can see sort of straight through there and so I had the fireplace cleaned a couple times a year instead of once a year because, well, we just burn a lot of wood.

[93] There was a fire that we built because it was a rainy, cold afternoon on the ninth last year of August.

[94] And a little cinder came out of the roof.

[95] And I didn't have a tin roof.

[96] Now I do.

[97] I did not have a tin roof.

[98] So I felt like one of the three little pigs.

[99] Like the roof caught flame.

[100] And it just went into the walls right next to.

[101] the chimney were all the master bedroom and a ton of electrical wires.

[102] Because I work with firefighters and I'm on a firefighter, Dennis Lurie's firefighter foundation, I'm on their board.

[103] We do a lot of these drills with firefighters where you're fully suited and you go into fake flames and you're taught all of this fire safety.

[104] When our roof was on fire, I ran upstairs to try and gather some of our stuff and I could hear the fire in the wall and I knew what it was.

[105] I could hear the fire spreading down all the cords behind the wall and I knew the wall was going to blow out and there was no time to get anything.

[106] We left in flip flops the clothes on her back and that was that.

[107] Wow.

[108] And as we were running down the stairs, a guy was, there's an easement behind our house that goes up into the Adirondack Mountains.

[109] And a guy was on his ATV with a cold 40 and a cigar having fun with his friends.

[110] And he parked the ATV and he came running down the mountain into the backyard.

[111] He's like, your roof's on fire.

[112] Your roof's on fire.

[113] And I was just starting to make John dinner.

[114] It was his first day off since we had come there in March.

[115] It was their first like proper day off.

[116] We had just finished all of the filming and taping and post -taping and all this.

[117] And he went out to play golf at a socially distanced and all that with two of his friends.

[118] And he came home really grumpy and pissed.

[119] And I'm like, well, I'll make you this pasta.

[120] You like this and it'll make you happier.

[121] And while I'm cooking, there's this man running through the backyard with a cigar screaming, your roof, your roof.

[122] And I came outside and, yeah.

[123] The roof was on fire.

[124] And he had already called, he said, I already called the fire department.

[125] I had called the fire department.

[126] He took off before I ever even met him.

[127] He said, fire department's on its way.

[128] I have a warrant.

[129] Good luck.

[130] Well, by the time I was coming back downstairs from assessing what was going on upstairs, I was crossing the path of firefighters in full gear coming into the house, screaming, get out, get out, get out.

[131] So he did a great job.

[132] He saved our lives most probably.

[133] And some of our stuff.

[134] Okay, I was going to say, because you said it burnt all the way into the foundation, but were they able to save any of it?

[135] It actually burned well into the night and into the early morning.

[136] Because we have well water, you can't just get tons of water immediately.

[137] So they had to use chemicals to try and kill the fire until the water trucks got there and then more water trucks.

[138] And now we actually, for the rebuild, had to actually make a pond so that there is a water resource that this would not ever happen again.

[139] And the core of the house and the back of the house is what burned down and into the property.

[140] And then once the water got there, it was very delayed.

[141] So it made this huge flood in the foundation, cellar area.

[142] So it was deemed a total loss, even though on the peripheral, there were some pictures left and some things like dishes that I wouldn't use again for obvious reasons because of chemical exposure or all that.

[143] And the remediation teams that came were just phenomenal, very loving people that crawl through rubble and wreckage for people every day of their lives to try and help people save some things.

[144] And it makes you remember everything you've lost, but also be wildly surprised like the best Christmas gift ever when you see that something that you thought was definitely gone.

[145] Oh, look, well, this picture came back.

[146] It's just a trip.

[147] And once we moved here, six days after the fire, I taught a cooking class for kids all over the world for 10 ,000 people.

[148] And it was so weird because that was the first time cooking in a different kitchen from the one I had just gotten used to.

[149] I had to rebuild a pantry just a couple of days and turn this very small place in a much smaller kitchen into a working set.

[150] I would watch trucks go by for two weeks, huge like transformer movie looking things.

[151] I just watched them clear away everything.

[152] And when it was done, it was just a cement rectangle, giant cement hole.

[153] What was the seller?

[154] That was all that was left.

[155] A few days later, it caught up again and the last beam in the house.

[156] I thought we were going to save my pizza oven.

[157] No. Several days later, the last beamwork of the top of the house fell into the oven and cracked it.

[158] Oh, my.

[159] Split it like a pumpkin.

[160] I was like, all right.

[161] Just take it all, man. Well, okay, so I want to ask you, like the stages of, I guess, grief or acceptance because my own personal, much less experience of this was simply I was out of town filming a movie.

[162] My sister called and said, hey, they're evacuating your neighborhood.

[163] Griffith Park's on fire.

[164] Do you want me to go in and grab anything?

[165] And I was like, yeah, go in and get my, I think I said my computer at the time.

[166] But then I was like, you know what?

[167] No, don't go in.

[168] I don't want you going over there.

[169] If they're evacuating, just forget it.

[170] So I guarantee an anomaly in this way.

[171] There was something that potentially was going to feel fraying about it.

[172] Like I have all this shit I think about and cared for and put in boxes and try to go through and throw away and empty claws.

[173] Whatever it was, I had some weird piece of like, Oh, this is interesting to have zero things in my backpack.

[174] I can't imagine you feel that way, but I'm curious.

[175] Is there any part of it that's like, oh.

[176] It's mixed.

[177] When it happened, we watched until about 2 .30 or 3 that morning, the house burned.

[178] Neither one of us cried.

[179] We just stood there trying to problem solve.

[180] Well, now what do we do?

[181] What do we do next?

[182] How do you move forward?

[183] and it was very proactive.

[184] Then several nights later, I woke up about 3 o 'clock in the morning and I realized I had lost all my mom's letters.

[185] And my mom has very bad macular degeneration.

[186] She's blind largely in the center of both eyes.

[187] And she can't write.

[188] She had beautiful script.

[189] And she wrote me such beautiful letters that meant so much to me, throughout my lifetime, decades of her thoughts and her advice.

[190] And that's what hit me. And I woke up and I couldn't stop.

[191] And I had her high school ring that she gave me. And that was gone.

[192] And it was things like that that bugged me. It was John's birthday that hit him on the 19th of August.

[193] That's John's birthday.

[194] My family tried to put tables outside so people could sit six feet part, and they made this big display and had a little wagon filled with some gifts for him.

[195] And I made a ton of food, and we were going to have an outdoor, close as we could to celebrating life.

[196] And John went for a bike ride.

[197] My husband loves to ride motorcycles as do you, Dex.

[198] Tell me more.

[199] Tell me more.

[200] Yeah.

[201] He went for a ride, and he came back, and he took one look at all that.

[202] and he just couldn't handle it.

[203] He wasn't ready for feeling good yet, you know?

[204] Yeah, yeah.

[205] Like he was just mourning still.

[206] Exactly.

[207] And it just overwhelmed him.

[208] And he just wasn't interested in eating it all.

[209] And he just, he hit the wall.

[210] And then after that, we went through a whole process where people started writing us about their losses and fires.

[211] And we had also lost our dog just before the fire, Isabu, that we had.

[212] for 15 and a half years.

[213] Really quick.

[214] What was the date of the fire?

[215] Did you say August?

[216] August 9th.

[217] Okay, so just before your birthday, too, which is lovely.

[218] Yes, both of our birthdays.

[219] His birthday's the 19th.

[220] Mine's the 25th.

[221] Okay, you have the same birthday as my mom.

[222] Just fun fact.

[223] So that makes me inclined to like you more just based on that simple fact.

[224] And a day after mine.

[225] Yeah, day after Monnies.

[226] Yeah.

[227] And then John's one day before Carly.

[228] It's a, it's stars, my sister.

[229] So star -studded.

[230] A lot of star -crossed birthdays.

[231] Powerful week.

[232] A lot of birthday buddies.

[233] I think that the fact that between the 9th and the 19th, I had that cooking camp for kids really helped and that we started getting so many letters and people reaching out to us and making us things, ceramics and things to blankets and quilts and stitching words of love or their letters into quilts.

[234] It was just overwhelming.

[235] Yeah.

[236] And I've been in television more than 20 years and I've never had that experience where you, I read every letter and I open everything and just to feel that amount of people being concerned about you was really, I don't know if cathartic is the right word.

[237] It just felt like, hey, this is going to be okay and look at it from a different way.

[238] Well, can I suggest something, which is like, and look, I'm not saying I could accomplish this at all, but the letters for mom, they're beautiful, they're those things.

[239] But the value of the letters for mom is that mom sat down and wrote you letters.

[240] That's the kind of mom you have, and that's in your heart, and that's permanent.

[241] The house, it's great, but would you rather have people who around the world adore you and care about you and are sending love or would you have a structure?

[242] Like, it's really easy, I think, for us as humans to get kind of caught up in the commemorative token of the experience as opposed to, it's actually the experience.

[243] Which is the entire point of the book is that...

[244] Oh, fuck.

[245] I just ruined it.

[246] I'm sorry.

[247] Home is truly knowing that you belong to a family, either what you're born to or the one you make with your life and your work and your deeds.

[248] that is what makes you feel safe and as in the song underneath wings.

[249] That was why I wanted the framework of the book to be this must be the place because that place is a state of being in a state of mind.

[250] It is not stuff and things that you look at.

[251] It is the collective experience and how long you have the grace to know it.

[252] Were you already involved in the foundation, the fire foundation?

[253] Sounds like, yeah.

[254] Yeah, the Dennis Lurie Firefighter Foundation.

[255] I was the first female board member several years ago.

[256] And I would do these interactive days to raise awareness and money, of course.

[257] And we would suit up and go into live fires, crawl on our bellies, learn how to use a hose, go into all of the situations, of course, managed by actual firefighters.

[258] So that training, I finally understood.

[259] I had no firefighters in my family, but for years I was fascinated by them and I had Dennis on the show as many times as I could book him.

[260] And every time he came privately backstage, I would give a donation to the firefighter foundation.

[261] And he asked me to lunch one day and I thought he just wanted to do a special or, you know, a couple of segments.

[262] Start an affair, you know, who knows what's on the table.

[263] And he asked me to be on the board And I just burst into tears And I said, of course So that gear, it weighs well over 50 pounds If you're fully suited and with a tank You have to move your body constantly And you're wearing about 70 pounds With the tank and the full gear in the mask And I'm wildly claustrophobic I've been mugged twice And I'm a real frady cat in a tight space So the whole mask thing was not easy for me But all the training, all of that that I went through, I understood full circle.

[264] And that's the other thing that happened.

[265] After the fire, I understood why all of this stuff happened.

[266] We never wanted to build a guest house.

[267] I mean, we had two guest rooms.

[268] That's enough.

[269] Three four people can come.

[270] Fine.

[271] This happened because one of our neighbors passed and their family said, we don't want a logging road put in here.

[272] Would you consider taking the property over?

[273] I mean, it wasn't even anything we ever thought about.

[274] All of these things happened.

[275] And then when the fire happened, I knew what the sound was in the wall.

[276] And I knew to turn and run and leave immediately.

[277] I didn't have my cell phone.

[278] I didn't have a computer.

[279] I didn't have pictures, notes, books, nothing.

[280] Just the clothes on our bat.

[281] Man, I didn't have fresh undies.

[282] And we had just adopted from one of our trips that we support with part of our foundation money.

[283] we have these vehicles that are rescue vehicles that go to kill shelters to bring home dogs and cats from states that unfortunately can't afford to have no kill shelters.

[284] And we had just adopted Bellaboo, and she was just getting used to that house.

[285] And then can you imagine your house is filled with spacemen, with gas masks, and it's burning down?

[286] And she had already been in two foster homes, and we rescued her from a kill shelter.

[287] She was just a little puppy in this nightmare.

[288] She's 80 pounds now and just fine.

[289] No worries.

[290] And she was a giant tootsie roll for Halloween.

[291] So she's an 80 pound tootsie roll for Halloween.

[292] I'm going to propose a theory that actually would suggest you're more equipped for this experience than a lot of other people.

[293] So bear with me. I used to be of the opinion.

[294] In fact, I was with a gal for nine years, Bree, lover to death.

[295] We used to get in these arguments because she would spend money going to rest.

[296] restaurants all the time.

[297] And I was like, what are you doing?

[298] Like, there's nothing left after you eat the thing.

[299] Like, it's such a bizarre way to spend money.

[300] You have nothing to show for it.

[301] And then, of course, over the years, I've been taught through people who study happiness that experiences are actually what make happiness.

[302] So the fact that your entire endeavor of your life is almost solely about process, because there's nothing to take away from it.

[303] Like, you spend all this energy in the kitchen and you take all of these ingredients and then you basically make them disappear.

[304] I mean, you transform them into an evacuation at some point, but it is so transient.

[305] It's all about the experience.

[306] It's an endeavor that yields really no end product.

[307] So a sculptor might look at what you do and be like, oh my God, I can't imagine not having a sculpture at the end of it of all the work.

[308] But for you to sit and eat it with friends and to see the experience on them.

[309] It is a sculpture, too, in its own way.

[310] But it disappears, is what I'm saying.

[311] It's like, it's not permanent.

[312] But you have the leftovers and you can keep working with them until it's completely gone.

[313] And the idea is that you can create something that might surprise someone.

[314] What I try and do with my food is what my friend, Sonia Scarloff tries or Adrian Christos, what my friends that are artists try and do with pain or what my husband tries to do with a song.

[315] You want people when they hear or see or eat something that you've made for them, you want them to have that look of a kid that opens a Christmas present they actually want.

[316] It's something that truly excites them and sparks their creative notions and their energy, whatever their gifts are and whatever their thing is.

[317] So I send my friends that are artists, pictures of my food all the time.

[318] You know, just something fun that I did with a bagel or something fun that I did for a football game.

[319] And they send me pictures of their works and progress as they go along.

[320] And the benefit of cooking at home is that you can take a little bit of money and see how far you can stretch it.

[321] You can please people and provide for them and feel like you're nurturing folks.

[322] And, you know, John and I don't have human children.

[323] And the biggest joy in my life is doing a cooking class with kids or being able to provide clean water for people or support Jose Andres in World Central Kitchen and be able to feed people and to be able to pay things forward.

[324] It's just like any other person that has a creative spark to them.

[325] That's just how I choose to express myself because it was my happy place.

[326] I think just being in service period of any kind, but certainly growing up in the service industry, every day can be difficult.

[327] My first job was being, my first legal job was being a dish machine operator.

[328] It's a very humbling process.

[329] Everybody should have to do it for a while.

[330] Yeah, I did it at Big Boys.

[331] Oh, there you go.

[332] Same thing as Howard Johnson's, baby.

[333] Yeah, Ho -Jos.

[334] I was going to say your mom, your mom managed a Hojo's, right?

[335] Several, several.

[336] And I was always covered in old eggs, man. Even dogs wouldn't chase me. They probably had the fat bin, like the vat.

[337] Oh, everything.

[338] Oh, yeah.

[339] And changing of the.

[340] oil for the fish fries and clam fries and oh, did you work with any work release people?

[341] Because I did.

[342] I did not.

[343] Okay.

[344] Well, not that I know of, but I don't think my mom would have told me. Yeah, I worked with a real kind group of work release prisoners that would work that shift and I would ride my moped to that big boys.

[345] And in the dead of winter in Michigan, I went outside, got on my moped and I like slid off the seat and I realized when they had emptied the fat vat, they were nice enough to just coat my whole seat with grease, which was very kind.

[346] I was 12.

[347] It was a good joke.

[348] It's very much the same experience in the Adirondack Mountains.

[349] Very cold, very icy, and fat, well, summer or winter is no fun to walk on, step in, sit on, or be near.

[350] But I think that people that are in the service industry, you have to constantly problem solve and you have to try and please people and you have to be very resilient.

[351] You have to be physically tough.

[352] And you have to have some stamina.

[353] And I think that it's a great preparation for life in general.

[354] You don't get your feelings hurt as easily as the next person.

[355] You don't take loss the same as maybe the next person.

[356] There's really no time, is there?

[357] It's like there's no time to sit around and get into a self -pity spiral.

[358] You can't.

[359] You can't.

[360] And that was never respected in my family.

[361] My grandfather was one of 14 and the four youngest came here and the kids all worked in a pottery yard and there was a terrible fire and one of the brothers died.

[362] So they all said it was bad luck to ever go back to the pottery yard.

[363] So grandpa became a stone mason and he worked cutting and carrying heavy stone for hours and hours a day rebuilding Fort Ticonderoga.

[364] He'd work 100 hours a week.

[365] He'd come home and even if it was the middle of the night, he'd get all of his children.

[366] My mother was the first of 10.

[367] He'd take them out of bed and bring them outside to watch the northern lights.

[368] The skies used to be dark enough you could see them.

[369] And he would sing to them and play them concertina and tell them stories.

[370] He always would make dinner before dawn.

[371] He'd go to work and it would sit in an oven all day and he'd serve it for dinner.

[372] He was the primary cook in the family.

[373] And he lived with me and he was my best friend until he passed when I was a young girl.

[374] And everything in him was about quality of life, not what hour you have to live it, or how hard work can be.

[375] It was about being grateful for having life itself and eating good food and sharing time together.

[376] And there were no set rules when it came to things like making time to hear each other laugh or share a story or share good food.

[377] there was no excuse for not doing these things.

[378] And he was Sicilian?

[379] Yes, my grandpa's from J -L -A, J -L -A, J -L -A, a little tiny town in Sicily that's now an oil town, actually.

[380] My mom was born here.

[381] She was his first born.

[382] She was always in the kitchen with him, which is why my mom ended up, I think, working in food for 60 years.

[383] What did your dad do?

[384] My dad was a publisher.

[385] He worked for many different publishing houses over the years, so...

[386] a big reader, and I bought the apartment that John and I live in, which also over the last year, had three floods.

[387] Our apartment was destroyed, now a total of three times.

[388] I know.

[389] We're like our own little plague.

[390] The universe is telling you to buy a motorhome.

[391] You just aren't listening.

[392] Yes, yes, yes.

[393] So we bought our apartment because of its proximity to two things, the Strand Bookstore.

[394] in the Union Square Green Market.

[395] So I could always get great produce for as long as the weather would allow, and I could always buy books, real books.

[396] So I think that's my dad and me. I love to read real books.

[397] My husband is switched over.

[398] He's the all digital book guy, but not me. Everything.

[399] That was another big loss for me that I lost all of my books really, really hit, kind of hit me in the overraises, as you'd say.

[400] Yeah.

[401] kicked you right in the flopian.

[402] But again, I got brought to my knees around the, well, after the holidays, actually, because it took a long time to find everybody.

[403] My friend who runs our foundation for us, Cappy, Andrew Kaplan, wonderful chef, beyond the plate is his food podcast.

[404] He's just lovely man. Anyway, Cappy called all my friends that are wonderful, great chefs, and he replaced many of my cookbooks.

[405] and every single person wrote a letter inside them.

[406] Samin and Jacques Pepin and so many, on lungi and like on and on, like just so many great chefs.

[407] And they rebuilt my library for my kitchen up the hill here.

[408] And that was really amazing.

[409] And that's the kind of stuff that gives you chills.

[410] And you're like, you know what?

[411] You lost that stuff.

[412] But look how much you learned about how people actually care about you so much that they took the time to do these things.

[413] Well, as they say, you don't know your real friends when the house is banging and the parties are great.

[414] You know your real friends when that fucker goes up and flames.

[415] The real friends come up.

[416] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[417] What's up, guys?

[418] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[419] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[420] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[421] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[422] And I don't mean just friends.

[423] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[424] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[425] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[426] We've all been there.

[427] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[428] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[429] but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[430] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[431] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[432] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[433] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[434] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[435] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[436] We need to breeze through some touchstones in your life because you're just a fucking hustler.

[437] So I want to know, you grew up in the Andorodax, as you say, your mother was into restaurant management, Aho's, love it.

[438] You go to New York City at 27, I guess, and then you get yourself a job at a candy counter.

[439] At Macy's, maybe, was it Macy's?

[440] Yeah, I did start at a candy counter.

[441] Absolutely.

[442] The initial move, though, when you go to New York City, what is the game plan at that point?

[443] I had been a child in love with New York my whole life.

[444] And I just wanted to be a part of Macy's because it was a part of so many big childhood memories for me. And the food hall there was so extraordinary.

[445] And I just would do anything to get a job and be a part of that energy.

[446] And it used to be quite something.

[447] I mean, it was like Herod's giant food hall.

[448] Yeah.

[449] It was a really, really big deal.

[450] And Michael Corcello, my boss, said, well, I don't know.

[451] Maybe I'll let you babysit the candy.

[452] And then through a series of kind of weird circumstance and accidents, a position opened up on the fresh food side where the caviar was and the caviar wars.

[453] And at the time, 350 cheeses was a lot of cheese.

[454] fresh cheese and the that's not a lot of cheese anymore no it's not a lot of cheese anymore it really isn't that won't even wow so he said you're going to have this job for a very short time i will find something and someone far more qualified to suit this position but just do some schedules and try not to let anything terrible happen and pack out boxes with with the staff if you don't get written up by labor so i was not happy like that.

[455] So I let everybody play different music every day.

[456] I talked to them before I scheduled them about what kind of schedule would work best in their lives and try to figure that out.

[457] We were going to the holiday season.

[458] I had a group meeting and asked them if I could help with the boxes if I just worked on the display area of it.

[459] I had our staff members train me how to pin bone the smoked fish and slice it properly.

[460] If they needed help, they could always call to me if someone called in, but I would not step on any job.

[461] I built a really nice relationship in the Fresh Foods Department there.

[462] I need to know what dreams you had at that moment.

[463] Did you have show business dreams in New York City?

[464] Or did you have restaurateur dreams?

[465] No, I just wanted to be like my mother and my grandfather.

[466] I wanted to go to work with integrity, work hard, than anyone else, not complain about it and be grateful.

[467] Period.

[468] End of list.

[469] And that's the way I approached work.

[470] Try and make it fun and pleasant and put something of meaning into each day and be respectful of everyone I work with.

[471] No, the TV food thing came much, much later.

[472] Michael Corsello, my boss, left Macy's and he went to work for what was a new company then, Whole Foods.

[473] And he asked me to come an interview with him in D .C., and I would have had to travel to several stores.

[474] And I was a person who got a license, but I wasn't a comfortable driver.

[475] I didn't have to drive it to him.

[476] I lived in New York, you know.

[477] And I would have to had exits on both sides and driven on that beltway.

[478] I thought I would die, quite frankly.

[479] So Michael suggested that I go meet his friend, Joe Musco, who I'm dear friends with to this day, who owned Agatine Valentina at the time, it was about to open, this big store.

[480] And he said, so go see my friend Joe, if you don't want this job.

[481] And Joe hired me, and I was his buyer and his main manager.

[482] And I worked 100 hours a week, but so did Joe and Agatella, his wife.

[483] And they would drive me home at night.

[484] And they had a big, beautiful Mercedes.

[485] And she would sit up front, of course, the husband and wife.

[486] And I would sit in the back.

[487] So I think when I got mugged, people thought I was in a car service because I was in the back.

[488] And the kid that mugged me the first time, I sprayed mason his eyes.

[489] Oh, wow.

[490] And he started screaming when I figured out he had a gun and he had a friend watching the door.

[491] And then he was embarrassed in front of his friend.

[492] So he came back a week later and that's when I got beaten up and that's when I quit.

[493] And I worked out a notice, but then I moved back upstate.

[494] That's when I had to learn to become a better driver because I had to drive an hour.

[495] each way to the marketplace I eventually ended up working at and started 30 minute meals at.

[496] And when I started 30 minute meals, one Christmas, we wanted to teach cooking classes, but all the chefs wanted too much money.

[497] So my boss said, well, why don't you teach them?

[498] Your food's better than anybody else's.

[499] So I started teaching these three -hour classes where you could learn six base recipes, and I'd give you five riffs on each of those, like, six songs.

[500] Yeah.

[501] Right.

[502] A way to riff on these things.

[503] So if you gave me three hours, you could learn, ostensibly, a month's worth of meals, and, like, football teams would come and bridal parties would come, and teenager would come.

[504] Like, it became this thing, and then that became a local news thing, and then that became a cookbook.

[505] So, yeah, they invited her on the local news, and this becomes a thing.

[506] And then she ultimately gets invited to Today Show.

[507] That's right.

[508] And then based on her appearances there, she gets...

[509] I get food network.

[510] Is that a...

[511] I feel like either Sally Field would...

[512] Like, that's a Sally Field.

[513] field movie in the 80s.

[514] It's so crazy.

[515] Reese Witherspoon's kind of playing that on...

[516] On morning show.

[517] On morning show.

[518] Like the hard scrabble girl from a small town.

[519] It's kind of almost suspiciously unbelievable, but of course it's the real...

[520] Well, a few things in your life are suspicious.

[521] Yeah, but as all that's ramping up, this is my kind of last curiosity about you is the workload is insane.

[522] Can you see in front of me?

[523] These are all my notebooks.

[524] This is how all of the work is done.

[525] Everything starts on pen and paper, and this is everything I'm working on just now.

[526] Yes, it's almost impossible for me to turn down opportunity because I just wanted it so hard.

[527] And I was a really hard worker from a young age.

[528] And so I have this, I don't know, at times unhealthy relationship with like, I cannot possibly let an opportunity pass me by.

[529] If someone wants to let me do something, I feel almost unethical to not.

[530] do it.

[531] And I just want to know what the fuel in your tank is.

[532] Is it similar?

[533] Absolutely, as long as I can do one thing.

[534] My mom said, if you're proud of any job that you have, you have to take pride in being the dishwasher, in being anything in life.

[535] And no matter how hard it feels, you have to find what is cool about that and do it better than the next guy or girl could.

[536] And that gives you a certain peace because the worst thing that can happen if opportunity presents itself is that you go back to where you just came from.

[537] So if you can get to a place mentally and emotionally where you're not ashamed of that, where you're happy with that, where you're proud that you were brave and could try again or start over or find beauty in something that you kind of dread, then really you can be fearless.

[538] You can try anything because the worst possible thing that can happen is that you go back to where you just were.

[539] So why not try?

[540] And so that's where it gets tricky for me. That's an interesting framing is that like your safety net you already have.

[541] That's kind of an interest.

[542] I've not heard that thought process.

[543] Well, that's the only way I think.

[544] As long as I know I did a good job today, I don't even look more than a couple.

[545] days ahead in his schedule.

[546] It's too overwhelming and my wheels will spin too much and I'll never go to sleep.

[547] Like I have to just, this is what I can do with this day or tomorrow.

[548] You do great in AA, by the way, if you ever want to join us because that's the whole bag right there.

[549] No one can stay sober for their life, but you can today.

[550] Okay, is there any pathology in it, though?

[551] Do you have like a scarcity mentality?

[552] Is it hard for you to feel safe like you're safe for, life because I would have to imagine, I spoke with your accountant this morning and we went through some stuff.

[553] You're probably safe, but do you feel safe?

[554] I've never cared about money a day in my life, not once.

[555] Oh my God.

[556] Wow.

[557] I've never, ever cared about it.

[558] I haven't looked at a checkbook.

[559] I've no idea if I'm worth two nickels or a lot.

[560] Me and your accountant figured out you're worth $11 million.

[561] This will be exciting for you to know.

[562] I sincerely don't care.

[563] I've never worked for money.

[564] And I've given away more money than I thought I would earn in several lifetimes.

[565] Our foundation, I mean, I think we're at like $70 million from dog food and selling dish towels and pots and pans.

[566] I build our businesses to be what I want, how I want, affordable, the best quality, especially when it comes to animals, of course, I'm feeding them.

[567] But that is what generates what I think my worth is.

[568] When I look at my worth, the number I care about is how much did we raise with our hard work and the collective creativity of all the people I choose to work with for a greater good.

[569] I have a dog.

[570] I don't have humans.

[571] I want to leave something when I'm dead.

[572] I don't know if that's tomorrow, 20, 30 years from now.

[573] I have no idea.

[574] I want my life to have been worth something and that's how I measure my worth.

[575] I have zero, zero awareness of my personal worth, and I don't care.

[576] That's why I'm very careful.

[577] That's why I'm very careful about the people I put close to me and the people I put close to money.

[578] I would like them to be responsible, of course.

[579] But I'm fine.

[580] I knew when I bought my first cabin here, after I was mugged and moved back up here and all that, it was $5 .75 a month rent to own.

[581] So a percentage of my rental every month went towards.

[582] the down payment.

[583] I bought that property for $110 ,000.

[584] I paid for it overtime with cash, three and a half acres and three bedrooms, only one toilet, no dishwasher, but it was my land.

[585] That's what made me feel safe.

[586] I knew I had a place to die.

[587] Every period after that in my life, I could care less.

[588] I didn't think about the money when my house burned down.

[589] I thought about my mom's letters.

[590] I love that we had a safe place to go, but now I know why all those things happened.

[591] All those dominoes fell.

[592] I bought land in Italy.

[593] Over three, three and a half years ago, I found the land.

[594] I just got to work on it this last year after the pandemic, but I bought a piece of land that had no electricity, no running water, no plumbing.

[595] The two buildings were a stable and a stable keep, and it was filled with dead animal carcasses.

[596] Oh, wow.

[597] It's just, there was literally nothing there.

[598] And my husband said to me, honey, this is.

[599] Talk about curb appeal.

[600] My husband said, honey, there's places all up and down the road that say Vendazi, you know, for sale.

[601] I'm sure they have plumbing.

[602] Couldn't we look at anything that has like a toilet?

[603] But I wanted the land.

[604] It was the land that spoke to me. I thought my grandpa would have loved it.

[605] And I just wanted the land.

[606] And I guess I had enough money to buy it, but I got to tell you, it was kind of a bargain since it didn't have any curb appeal.

[607] Dead carcass curb appeal.

[608] Now, you're making a show about that.

[609] You have a show about building this home there.

[610] How's that going?

[611] Well, we already wrapped the first part of it on our anniversary, our 16th anniversary of the show, the magazine, and our marriage all culminated in late September.

[612] And we made that the end of the first part of that story.

[613] It'll air on A &E in the spring, like full -length ones, but now they're already up on can watch 12 -minute episodes of it on Facebook, which is very ironic because I'm not on Facebook personally.

[614] I can't watch it.

[615] But everybody else can.

[616] People seem to like it.

[617] No, but it's very beautiful.

[618] And the stable and the stable keeps, I mean, it's my life's dream.

[619] When I was a little girl, Grandpa would tell me all the same stories, he told my mom about Italy and where he came from.

[620] But just Italy in general.

[621] And they were my fairy tales.

[622] So my life's dream was one day, if I work hard enough, maybe I can live some of my time in Italy, too.

[623] And I'm 53 and that's true for me. I can now go to Italy and have a bed to sleep in, and that is everything to me. So the house is done?

[624] Yes.

[625] Yeah.

[626] Sounds like ours.

[627] Yeah.

[628] We're short a couple bathrooms and there's a phase two.

[629] And my husband wants to have a music studio there because he's a musician.

[630] He plays like 10 different instruments, and he has a piano.

[631] He got a Fatsioli piano, which is his life stream.

[632] All right.

[633] That is there.

[634] Does he have a Ducati there?

[635] He does not.

[636] He has a BMW there.

[637] A BMW 1250 with really fat tires.

[638] It's good.

[639] Those are great.

[640] Those are great.

[641] But can I give you a suggestion for his birthday?

[642] He definitely needs a Ducati multi -strata for that area.

[643] That's what he needs.

[644] I will give him your advice.

[645] Next August, there may be.

[646] a Duccotti joining the family.

[647] Oh, as there should.

[648] But right now, he has a BMW with a very low seat.

[649] We're not tall people.

[650] Okay.

[651] And the tires are special for roads that have pebbles.

[652] It's got knobbies.

[653] Yeah, it's an adventure bike.

[654] It's, uh, yeah, dual -train.

[655] Because of where we live, he can't get in and out of his own house if he didn't have something like that to help him out.

[656] The Ducati's nice once he gets to the alto strata, you know.

[657] Well, and also the multi -strata I'm suggesting you buy, same as that bike.

[658] It's got an enduro setting.

[659] You can ride off road.

[660] But he needs to be on an Italian twin.

[661] He needs to feel the, you know what I'm saying?

[662] I agree.

[663] I agree.

[664] Do you feel like people are, when they meet you, they're surprised by you based on your TV persona?

[665] Or does you think it adds up?

[666] I don't know.

[667] I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.

[668] I mean, I guess I did when I was much younger.

[669] I mean, there used to be whole websites called I hate, Rachel Ray.

[670] And a lot of chefs, of course, famously, were not thrilled with my appearance on the scene because I wasn't chefy enough or pedigree enough for the gang.

[671] But that's not who you work for in life.

[672] And I try and learn every day.

[673] I try and make myself a better cook and a better host and a better human neighbor community member.

[674] And that's the best you can do.

[675] I have never spent time thinking about those who don't or those who don't care for me. Not every kid is going to like you on the playground and that's life.

[676] And I learned that in kindergarten.

[677] My grandpa made my lunch every day and I loved it.

[678] Nobody wants to sit next to a kid that eats sardine sandwiches, you know.

[679] No, no, I don't want to be around that kid.

[680] I'd rather sit with a glue eater.

[681] Less smell.

[682] Less smell.

[683] Okay, Rachel, I got to ask you one question.

[684] I'm sure this is the blessing you want to talk about but I only bring it up in terms of how much we're all shifting out of this water we were in like I think of it most with these recent documentaries about like Britney Spears like the questions people asked her when she was a minor about her sexuality and the shaming that happened and I just wanted to know from you there was like some controversy over you being in FHM and I wonder now with your lens do you think that could happen to day.

[685] Do you think that was not like the most textbook example of like an attempted slut shaming?

[686] It just seems like something that's so gruesome.

[687] And I could not have been more excited.

[688] I thought FHM meant for home or homemakers.

[689] I had no idea what it even was.

[690] What is it?

[691] It's like a men's magazine like Max.

[692] It was a men's magazine.

[693] And just the idea that they invited someone, I think I was like 37 at the time, like over 30.

[694] at all, it is shocking, and certainly not a six -foot -tall runway model, that anybody would be asked to be sexy in that way.

[695] I thought it was the coolest freaking thing in the world.

[696] I'm very proud of it.

[697] I don't care.

[698] I'll lick what anybody else thinks about it.

[699] I don't even look down in the shower.

[700] I've never had self -esteem in that way.

[701] I've always been proud of myself as a worker, but I've always thought of myself.

[702] as kind of a troll otherwise, like just like a Frodo kind of a thing.

[703] Oh, no. Like just not an attractive human.

[704] And to be asked to do that, I thought, I'm going to do this.

[705] God damn, I'm going to do this for everybody who's not that.

[706] And I'm going to try and embrace this for once in my life.

[707] And I am so freaking thrilled that I had that.

[708] And I still get those pictures to this day to sign them.

[709] Yeah.

[710] I couldn't be more thrilled.

[711] I freaking love it, and I don't give a flying fuck, excuse me. When anybody would have shamed or thought about me then or now, I really don't care because I felt good about myself probably the only time in my life in that way.

[712] Rachel, you're a smoke show.

[713] You're a smoke show.

[714] That's a moment I'm not giving back, and thank you.

[715] And thank you.

[716] I love that you ask me about that.

[717] I would never, ever take that back.

[718] The first time I did a memoir mashup was when I turned 50 and there's a whole chapter in there about what an awkward celebrity I am and how awful I am at any circumstance where I'm forced to actually pretend to be one and I just suck at it.

[719] One time I even told Meg Ryan this in person one time I was behind Meg Ryan and I had to present an award at Tribeca Film Festival and I was wearing a dress that's really low cut and I'm such a sweater and they had those nip things on and I got so sweaty the nip fell out of the bottom with the dress on one side and I didn't know what to do and there's nine million people in the press pool with cameras right I don't know if the freaking thing was sheer or not so I did the entire presentation with one hand over a boob like Napoleon or something and I dropped my card like the blue card they gave me I dropped it on purpose and when I bent down to pick it up, I shoved the nip onto the palm of my hand and thank God it stuck so no one behind me could see that the nip had fallen off.

[720] Oh, my God.

[721] I did the whole thing with my little.

[722] This is a Sallie Field movie.

[723] This is a Sallie Field movie.

[724] When I went to the White House for the last state dinner, I didn't know they were going to put us at the head table.

[725] We were at the Obama's table.

[726] I had been working with Michelle for years on Killsin Initiatives and School Food and the Let's Move campaign.

[727] I had no idea.

[728] And I wildly inappropriately dressed.

[729] It was like 85 degrees.

[730] And I had on a giant fall skirt with like a tumult leaves all over it and a black turtleneck with cap sleeves.

[731] But I was on the road traveling the whole time before.

[732] So that was all I had to wear.

[733] So whatever.

[734] I go there and pouring sweat.

[735] I look like a drowned rat.

[736] Walking into the White House, I'm in these giant high heels that I never have to wear and I can't walk in them.

[737] and I stick the high heels through all of the crinlins and they get caught up on the giant shoe and the lady at the check -in desk had to go find shears and cut my foot out of the crinlin before I went down the line where they take your picture when you're about to meet the president and the first lady.

[738] Like doused in sweat.

[739] Boob, sweat, everything.

[740] It's also a Mr. Bean movie.

[741] As much as it's a Sally Field movie.

[742] Yes, that is me. I'm Bean.

[743] Oh, it's great.

[744] They had to cut me out of the dress, man. Nothing makes me panic more than high heels and somebody else's clothes.

[745] I can't handle it.

[746] It's another thing I love about working from home all these months and the pandemic.

[747] I just get to be me. I'm wearing jeans and sneakers and my own shirt.

[748] I'm not in other people's clothes.

[749] I'm in my clothes.

[750] And even when I went back to the studio, they worked so hard to make it look like here and they let me just continue being me like I didn't get pressure from our partners saying hey, could you step it up a little or do you own a dress still?

[751] I just go out like I stay in and I really appreciate that and it's something that I just should have always done.

[752] I should never have done television 16 years ago where I tried to look like an anchor or a different type of host or whatever the idea of a TV host should be.

[753] I never should have tried that.

[754] It doesn't work for me. I'm best when I can just roll myself.

[755] And I always do that with my words, but it's very liberating to now do that just in general.

[756] Like you don't like it?

[757] Okay, that's fine.

[758] You don't have to.

[759] Flip the channel, baby.

[760] Yeah, exactly.

[761] Switch the channel.

[762] Okay, so Rachel, I've done your show several times.

[763] I know, so is Kristen.

[764] Yes.

[765] Yeah, so fun to do.

[766] And I guess my last question, is am I your favorite guest of all time?

[767] I don't pick favorites ever with food or humans because it's a dumb.

[768] It's a dumb pursuit.

[769] But I will say your personality is something I deeply appreciate.

[770] It's a fucking hard job.

[771] I don't think people realize how much is going on.

[772] I know that when I've hosted shows similar to yours, it feels like 12 minutes has gone by and the whole hour's gone by.

[773] Like it's such a stand here.

[774] Now, do this.

[775] segment, this segment.

[776] I have to imagine, yeah, if you have a guest that does the lifting, it's a nice little break for a second.

[777] And just people that are real, it's very hard for me because I'm not a trained journalist or the type of hosts that works well off of prompters or a lot of notes.

[778] I like people that want to come on and just talk and have a conversation.

[779] And so those are the days that are the most fun because you don't know what's going to happen.

[780] And it's exciting.

[781] And it's exciting for the audience.

[782] And so when we have guests on like yourself that can roll with that and have fun with that, it's the most exciting for me. Well, let me just tell you as a guest, it's most exciting for me as well.

[783] I mean, there are shows where I know it's the whole thing's going to be pretty scripted.

[784] And there's shows that I know you're free to just explore.

[785] And it's way more fun as a guest.

[786] Someone who is just John who reminds me a lot of you is David Duchovney.

[787] He'll let the conversation go anywhere.

[788] Or Ron Howard and his brother Clint.

[789] They were just so fun.

[790] I didn't want to do the same six notes from the publisher.

[791] I actually read the books that I'm given, like front to back.

[792] I read them.

[793] I get up at three o 'clock in the morning if I have to.

[794] I like to actually show anybody who's coming, whether they've been there before or not, the respect that they deserve, whatever the project is, I try and fully watch it or read it or learn about it or be present in it because I love those conversations.

[795] That's what makes life exciting and interesting is that if you open your eyes, that's a fresh page in a notebook.

[796] And as you can see, I'm notebook obsessed.

[797] I have 50 of them surrounding me. But I love a clean piece of paper more than the prettiest plate of food or the most beautiful painting to me. The idea that I can start a day new and that I get a fresh piece of paper and you get to write what goes down in that day, get to write this day, no matter how much yesterday sucked or how long it was or how sick you feel or whatever went wrong, even if your house burns down, guess what?

[798] You woke up.

[799] Now what are you going to do?

[800] That is freaking cool.

[801] And being able to go to work and if you're lucky enough to have a day full of people that I also love a day that's not all filled with people of celebrity, that it's filled with real heroes in our neighbors and just people that have pivoted in the right way to help each other instead of bitch at each other or complain about what your neighbor isn't doing instead of trying to help your neighbor come to a better place or closer to you instead of farther away from you.

[802] I love a day that has a combination of getting to know your real, true neighbors in your community and learning something you wouldn't hear on all the other shows you might watch a person of celebrity on.

[803] I mean, that's the kind of day I love.

[804] Well, Rachel, I hope everyone checks out your book.

[805] This must be the place and watches the Tuscany show on Facebook.

[806] You're just a delight.

[807] And it's as fun to interview you as to be interviewed by you.

[808] So I wish you luck.

[809] That is a huge compliment.

[810] And thank you guys just for making the time for me today.

[811] It's such an honor to be on your show.

[812] Like, it's a long list of really, wow.

[813] I can't believe I made the cut.

[814] Oh, come on.

[815] No, it gives me chills.

[816] It's really cool.

[817] It's amazing, and thank you.

[818] And my love to the fam, of course, to Kristen, the girls.

[819] Oh, my God, the dogs.

[820] You got a little tripod now, yeah?

[821] You got whiskey.

[822] He's down a leg, yeah.

[823] He's down one leg.

[824] His bark is working just fine, it seems, though.

[825] Well, we adore you.

[826] Good luck with everything, and thanks for taking the time.

[827] Thanks again, guys.

[828] And thank you behind the scenes for helping us make our thing work.

[829] Of course, of course.

[830] Bye, guys.

[831] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[832] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[833] Someone just brought up Burning Man. Mm -hmm.

[834] Is that something you would want to go to?

[835] Never.

[836] Never.

[837] Don't even want to see what's the...

[838] I have zero interest whatsoever.

[839] Okay.

[840] Yeah.

[841] All right.

[842] Well...

[843] What's your interest?

[844] If I go, then you don't want to go?

[845] I mean...

[846] No. If a big group's going maybe, yeah.

[847] Yeah, big group could tip it for you.

[848] Maybe, yeah.

[849] Okay.

[850] Do you want to go?

[851] I do for sure, yeah.

[852] I want to see the chaos.

[853] I'm nervous about all the dust.

[854] I don't love being a big clouded dust, but, yeah, I want to see people ride their bicycles naked around and stuff.

[855] I want to see what's happening out there.

[856] I get the curiosity.

[857] Yeah.

[858] I'm sure it would be an interesting experience, but I bet I would be pretty miserable during it.

[859] It'd be novel?

[860] it'd be memorable.

[861] Whether or not it's enjoyable, we don't know.

[862] Big question mark there.

[863] Oh, my God, that's a sad ding, ding, ding start to this fact check.

[864] Uh -oh, what?

[865] Rachel Ray's house burnt down.

[866] Burning Man. It's the same thing.

[867] Okay, all right.

[868] Okay.

[869] Okay.

[870] That was the craziest story ever.

[871] I didn't know that.

[872] That her house burnt down?

[873] Yeah.

[874] She seems to have a hell of an attitude about it.

[875] She really does.

[876] I mean, it seems like she got there over time and through grief, but...

[877] I will say, though, having never had a house burned down, I just, I will say I did not want to move out of our old house, as you know.

[878] And I was anticipating missing it so much.

[879] Yeah.

[880] And what's funny is I haven't thought about it since we left.

[881] It's such a huge shocker to me. Yeah.

[882] It's so weird.

[883] I'm like, oh, yeah, I just walked out of there and I don't, you know, I don't like have a yearning to go be in that house.

[884] And I would have, I would have guessed the opposite.

[885] I was wrong.

[886] Do you think that's a personality thing?

[887] Like specific to me and not necessarily like a human universal.

[888] Maybe, yeah.

[889] Well, I was inclined, here was the story I was telling myself.

[890] I was inclined to think I'm the type that needs it more because we move so much as a kid.

[891] Yeah.

[892] That one of my allergies as an adult has been moving.

[893] I lived in one apartment, Santa Monica, for 10 years, and then I lived in that house for 16 years.

[894] Yeah.

[895] And I could have moved out of that one bed of apartment a ton of times, but I just don't like to move.

[896] So, I would, again, I would have guessed I would have had an opposite reaction, but it just hasn't been the case.

[897] I would label you as someone who has an easier, or I don't know, easier, but easy -ish time moving on from things.

[898] With change.

[899] Yeah, I think some things that you are very connected to for a long time, They end and it doesn't break you.

[900] I mean, even with like, Brie, those things, I think, I mean, you still have, and I'm sure you still love your house when you think about it.

[901] But it's not like, it's not causing something in you.

[902] That's my opinion.

[903] I think in general you're better with change than you had to be.

[904] Well, yeah, maybe because there was so much change.

[905] Yeah.

[906] Just better at than I thought I was.

[907] But also, it's relevant that the place I moved to is nicer.

[908] So if I had moved somewhere smaller, like she's.

[909] moved into her guest house, so certainly she doesn't have cupboards and stuff that she wants, that would be harder if you've gone to somewhere less comfortable.

[910] So I think it's definitely helped that I love where we're at now.

[911] Yeah, yeah.

[912] Yeah.

[913] It'd be interesting to see if it was a lateral move or even one that was to a place less comfortable if I would pine for it, probably, maybe.

[914] Yeah, maybe.

[915] I mean, but I mean, I guess with the house, obviously if the house was empty, that's a different scenario too.

[916] I mean, all her stuff.

[917] Yeah.

[918] And I, have a bizarre relationship with that as well which I yeah you kind of brought it up yeah yeah a little bit yeah I think there are things that she said like she didn't think about until it hit her like yeah letters from her mom like I bet if you're all your journals just disappeared all that might hit you as like oh my god like years of thought evaporated not that you're even going to read it or it I know that's anything yeah like my knee jerk is like yeah that sounds terrible and then and then when I really play out how many times I've read my journal over the last 18 years, I haven't.

[919] But it's not about that.

[920] It's about how quickly things can come and go.

[921] Yeah, I also think a lot of it has to do with how good your memory is.

[922] If you have a very bad memory, which there's a spectrum of people's how good their memory is.

[923] Yeah.

[924] I think you're more drawn to the objects from the memories that can help bring you back to it.

[925] That's true.

[926] And I would say in general I have a pretty good memory.

[927] so I like I remember the letters my mom wrote me I don't need them because I remember that and I remember a lot of stuff whereas Kristen has a terrible memory as you know and she seems to have more objects from her childhood than I do yeah where do you put yourself on that spectrum I like tangible reminders yeah I have like memory boxes and stuff they live at my parents house it's not like I'm like looking at them all the time but I like knowing that there are, like, trinkets from my life that have meaning and...

[928] And when you're home for the holidays, you'll sift through it.

[929] I have a memory box in my closet, and once every two years I do a show or something where they want a picture of me when I was younger and then I get into that box and I'll see a couple things, yeah, that are sweet.

[930] Yeah, that's nice.

[931] I have to do a shout out.

[932] Oh.

[933] Because we're coming up on the holidays, which is obviously wrapping paper time.

[934] Oh, uh -huh.

[935] which is my favorite time.

[936] It's your, yeah.

[937] And I bought some the other day from my favorite store in Venice, my favorite wrapping paper store in Venice.

[938] I love that you have a favorite wrapping paper store.

[939] I do.

[940] I didn't even know there were wrapping paper stores.

[941] Well, they probably would call it, let me see what it's called.

[942] Well, we could say urbanic or urbanic.

[943] You are B -A -N -I -C.

[944] You're asking the wrong guy?

[945] Well, I don't know.

[946] But it's one of those two, but they call it paper boutique.

[947] Okay.

[948] Okay.

[949] So what have they got stationary in there as well?

[950] Yeah, they have lots of cute stuff.

[951] Like it's an adorable store.

[952] Paper towel.

[953] Sure, probably.

[954] Probably decorative paper towel.

[955] And I love it.

[956] And I haven't been since pandemic.

[957] I ordered a bunch of wrapping paper from them.

[958] And one of them was cherries.

[959] Which was so cute.

[960] But then they emailed me and they said, we're so sorry, but we're actually out of the cherries.

[961] So, you know, we'll refund you.

[962] I was like, okay, that's fine.

[963] And then I got another email from someone who works there.

[964] And she said, I know we've already reached out, but just wanted to let you know, like, we love the show.

[965] And one of the staff members has a personal page of the cherry.

[966] And so we're going to send it to you.

[967] And I was like, no, I can't take someone's personal stash knowing how important wrapping paper is.

[968] Yes, and how you feel about it.

[969] Which is so sweet.

[970] And it's so beautiful.

[971] Wow.

[972] It's a really good store.

[973] Oh, man. Did you go there in person recently?

[974] No. Or you just go there online?

[975] I went.

[976] It was the first time I bought online, actually.

[977] But I just didn't think.

[978] Venice, California, right?

[979] Yeah.

[980] Yes.

[981] Venice, California.

[982] I just didn't think I'd be able to make it over there.

[983] Right.

[984] It's on the other side of the world for us.

[985] By the time I had to start wrapping.

[986] You could fly to Vegas sooner than you could drive to Venice many times during the day.

[987] I agree.

[988] Crazy.

[989] You should look at favorite, see if there's any great wrapping paper offerings in Vegas.

[990] Okay.

[991] It's just a 45 -minute flight away.

[992] Okay, that's easy.

[993] I'll look.

[994] I'll look into it.

[995] Speaking of the west side, I was on the west side yesterday.

[996] Yeah.

[997] Not in Venice, but a little east of Venice.

[998] West of the 405, which is the most important demarker.

[999] Exactly, which means because I had a massage appointment, which was lovely, brand new place, milk and honey, awesome.

[1000] Had a massage appointment at three each.

[1001] So I knew I couldn't head back until seven.

[1002] the earliest.

[1003] Yes, well, let me just need to break this down for people who don't live in California or Los Angeles.

[1004] If you are on the west side of the 405 starting at 3 p .m., you cannot leave.

[1005] Nope.

[1006] Either have to take sunset, Wilshire, or Santa Monica Boulevard, and you can't take any of those three.

[1007] You'll sit.

[1008] You'll get there just as fast as if you wait till 7 o 'clock at night and get in your car.

[1009] It's insane.

[1010] It is insane.

[1011] But I knew that.

[1012] that i knew that going in i was like okay i'm gonna be there for the week exactly this is what i'm gonna do i'm gonna have my massage and then i'm gonna walk down the street and edit and get a drink at shout out my incredible designer she designed this restaurant oh really aOC and brentwood and it is named after the politician i think it predated the politician okay okay but it's beautiful in there and so i went in, sat down.

[1013] I immediately felt a little uncomfortable pulling out my computer.

[1014] So I was like, I don't think editing's on the table literally.

[1015] Yeah.

[1016] So I was like, okay, that's all right.

[1017] I'll just eat and have a drink.

[1018] And I was so lonely at that dinner.

[1019] Oh, wow.

[1020] And I'm usually very good at eating at restaurants by myself, going to me, you know, whatever, doing stuff by myself.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] I have no problem but um i did have a problem and it was coming off of just having this conversation about being like yeah i'm grateful for wherever i am uh -huh what unique things do you think tilted it in the lonely direction like what made it different from other meals you've had by yourself was being on the west side part of it like you're weirdly not choosing to be there at that point like you're They're there because you have to be somewhere.

[1023] I thought maybe a little trapped.

[1024] Yeah.

[1025] But yes, I think you're right.

[1026] Like if I choose to go to dinner by myself, that feels like I have some power and control.

[1027] And yeah, I didn't.

[1028] I had to kill some time.

[1029] This was the option, sit in my car or go to a restaurant that I've been wanting to go to.

[1030] So I think maybe that's partly why I felt bad as I was like, oh, this doesn't feel good.

[1031] but I was excited about it.

[1032] Right.

[1033] So that's a bummer.

[1034] So I think, yes, the choice element, we're at home.

[1035] If I'm in London, I don't care at all because I'm exploring.

[1036] The story is you're exploring.

[1037] I'm getting to see stuff and this is not that.

[1038] This is, I live here and I'm by myself.

[1039] Right.

[1040] Which, ironically, you would have been anyways, even if you were married.

[1041] Because no one's going to go with you to the west side all day.

[1042] Yeah, probably not.

[1043] You know?

[1044] Like, you really would be in the exact same situation.

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] You would just, part of your story would be, I'm lonely right now, but I have someone at home.

[1047] Yeah.

[1048] So now I can't, I'm not that lonely.

[1049] Well, which is a story, but it's also true.

[1050] Like, that story would be true.

[1051] What I'm pointing out is that you actually wouldn't be comforted real time by a partner sitting with you.

[1052] It would be the abstract notion that the partner is somewhere.

[1053] A hundred percent.

[1054] That's why I'm calling it a story.

[1055] Like it's it's not tangible in front of you.

[1056] Yeah, yeah.

[1057] But if I have a partner somewhere, then that moment in the restaurant is not indicative of the rest of my life.

[1058] Right.

[1059] It's unique and it's not permanent.

[1060] Yeah.

[1061] Right.

[1062] I think we're getting somewhere.

[1063] I think the feeling of it being permanent.

[1064] Yeah.

[1065] Yeah.

[1066] But that's what it is.

[1067] It is permanent.

[1068] It's not permanent, but it feels like it's permanent in that restaurant.

[1069] Yeah.

[1070] Yeah.

[1071] It's not.

[1072] It's not.

[1073] Yeah, I mean, you've got to start backwards from the, are you the one person in Los Angeles that can't partner up?

[1074] And there's no way that's, that's just so blatantly not the case.

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] That's not the reality of anything.

[1077] But in that moment, most certainly it feels that way.

[1078] Yeah, it's all, it's all just feelings.

[1079] Yeah.

[1080] They come and they go.

[1081] You can feel empowered and then you can feel lonely.

[1082] Yeah.

[1083] Life is a fucking seesaw.

[1084] It is.

[1085] Anywho, that was my evening.

[1086] How was your evening?

[1087] Woke up to pee three times.

[1088] Went to bed at 207 pounds.

[1089] Okay.

[1090] 207 .4 pounds.

[1091] Peed several times throughout the night.

[1092] Okay.

[1093] Then a transcendent evacuation.

[1094] Got on the scale 201.

[1095] Wow.

[1096] Wow.

[1097] Well, six pounds between bedtime and morning time.

[1098] That's all.

[1099] That's impressive.

[1100] In the, you know, a gallon of water is 8 .8 pounds.

[1101] So I'm imagining at least five and a half pounds of that was water.

[1102] You're so hydrated.

[1103] Too hydrated.

[1104] You know, that's why I didn't like someone responded to our theory, my theory, not ours, about not pooping when you're getting chased by Wild Game or when you're on vacation.

[1105] Uh -huh.

[1106] This person said, I think it's dehydration.

[1107] And dehydration is this kind of catch -all thing.

[1108] I think I'm going to put it on par with, like, toxins.

[1109] Oh, no. Yes.

[1110] No, you can't do that.

[1111] I'm going to.

[1112] Like, for a decade, everyone talked about toxins.

[1113] You've got to do this cleanse.

[1114] You get rid of toxins, toxins, toxins, toxins, toxins.

[1115] And now to me, that's transition.

[1116] People are dehydrations, everything.

[1117] Now, I believe in dehydration, but I think it's very over amplified.

[1118] So anyways, you couldn't be more hydrated than I am.

[1119] I don't think.

[1120] You are extremely hydrated.

[1121] I'm about to pop, usually, with water.

[1122] So I was just like, no, that's not, you know, a lot of people are not dehydrated when they travel.

[1123] Some people are.

[1124] But do you have problems when you travel pooping?

[1125] I don't think you do.

[1126] I don't think I do either.

[1127] But I would explain that as I've been, at 14, I was doing car shows.

[1128] So all summer, I went to 20 different cities in a summer.

[1129] And I did that for 14 years.

[1130] And so I think I just traveled so much that when I'm traveling, it actually doesn't feel like a not.

[1131] or scary or new situation.

[1132] I think.

[1133] Could be that.

[1134] Could be that you're hydrated.

[1135] It could be.

[1136] What I think is that the non -pooping first day of vacation is a ubiquitous, almost universal experience for people.

[1137] And I don't think dehydration is a universal experience for people.

[1138] But it is known that being on a plane dehydrates you, which is why they're probably saying that.

[1139] I don't know about that.

[1140] Okay.

[1141] I've heard that bandied about, but I don't think there's any.

[1142] I wouldn't need to know the science behind that claim.

[1143] Great.

[1144] I don't know what about sitting in a pressurized cabin dehydrate you.

[1145] Shall I Google it?

[1146] Sure.

[1147] Does flying dehydrate you?

[1148] Airlines pressurized the air in the cabin, but not to sea level pressures.

[1149] So there's still less oxygen getting to your body when you fly, which can make you feel drained or even shorter breath.

[1150] The potential dehydration factor in sitting for long periods of time doesn't help.

[1151] But what is, quote, the potential dehydration?

[1152] Oh, no, this is low humidity, spending long periods of time in a climate -controlled environment where the relative humidity can be as low as 10 to 15%, which is three times drier than the Sahara Desert.

[1153] Oh, okay.

[1154] I maybe buy that a little bit.

[1155] Maybe.

[1156] I think people are in climate -controlled environments eight hours a day, most people.

[1157] Yeah.

[1158] Yeah.

[1159] No, there aren't any facts.

[1160] Oh, there's not.

[1161] Okay, that explains that.

[1162] Rachel, I mean, I love that episode so much.

[1163] She was awesome.

[1164] And I was listening for some, but they just...

[1165] They didn't materialize.

[1166] They did not.

[1167] But it's, I really enjoyed her, and I was very surprised by her.

[1168] Yeah, elaborate on that.

[1169] I heard you share that.

[1170] I don't know why I necessarily...

[1171] I mean, I used to watch.

[1172] her on Food Network all the time.

[1173] Uh -huh.

[1174] My takeaway was that she was very, like, bubbly and, and she's not.

[1175] She's, like, very grounded to the earth, kind of badass.

[1176] I don't know, I like...

[1177] Blue collar.

[1178] I think she's very blue -collar.

[1179] Yeah, in a great way.

[1180] I really liked her.

[1181] I did, too.

[1182] So self -made.

[1183] Yeah.

[1184] And I love that she doesn't know how much money she has.

[1185] It's so great.

[1186] I know you love that.

[1187] My first thought is, like, well, if you don't know, then people can see.

[1188] steal from me and you won't know.

[1189] I know.

[1190] Well, you're inviting theft if you don't know.

[1191] But I like it too.

[1192] It sounds very healthy.

[1193] Yeah.

[1194] And I also, she's not out to lunch.

[1195] She's like, I mean, I hire people who I trust who I do hope know the exact amount.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] But it's, you know, she's just decided to not care.

[1198] That's cool.

[1199] It is cool.

[1200] It's a story.

[1201] Money's a story.

[1202] So many stories.

[1203] It's our whole life.

[1204] It's all stories.

[1205] All right.

[1206] I love you.

[1207] Love you.

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