S11 E9: [Vera] Diabolical

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] Episodes can discuss topics that can be triggering, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, and murder.

[12] I am not a therapist or a doctor.

[13] If you're in need of support, please visit something was wrong .com slash resources for a list of nonprofit organizations that can help.

[14] Some names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[15] Opinions expressed by the guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of myself or audio chuck.

[16] Resources and source material are linked in the episode notes.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] You think you know me, you don't know me will.

[19] Please note, this episode discusses rape, abortion, cyberbullying, suicidal ideation, and psychological violence.

[20] Please use caution when listening.

[21] Hello, everyone.

[22] My name is Vera.

[23] I'm super, super excited to be on this podcast and to be a part of something so amazing.

[24] It's an honor.

[25] I'm here to tell a story about something that happened to me when I was in high school.

[26] In high school, I had a really amazing core group of friends.

[27] We were just super tight, had lots of parties.

[28] My house was kind of the hangout party house, and we were always together.

[29] We were really good friends.

[30] So what happened was really shocking for me and really traumatic for me, but also, I think really caused a ripple effect amongst all of us that was really painful and broke us all apart.

[31] For today's episode, I interviewed Vera, her mom, and her longtime friend, Noelle.

[32] Hi, this is Noelle.

[33] I would describe Vera as a person in high school.

[34] Kind of wild, very playful.

[35] I like to have parties and get dressed up.

[36] You were always laughing and going on adventures.

[37] The summer before my senior year of high school, I lost my virginity and maybe the third or fourth time I ever had sex, I unfortunately got pregnant.

[38] I found out that I was pregnant on September 11th, 2007.

[39] My mom is really amazing.

[40] She's my best friend and always there for me. But she was raped in high school and abortion was illegal in.

[41] in the state that she lived in at that time.

[42] So she had to fly to another state to get an abortion because she got pregnant due to the rape.

[43] And I just didn't want to trigger her, put her through that again.

[44] I told my core group of friends what was going on.

[45] I didn't have a driver's license at the time.

[46] They really helped me out with driving me to appointments and helping me figure all this out.

[47] Shortly after finding out she was pregnant, Vera got into an argument with her friends, Cora and Noelle.

[48] I don't really remember what the fight was about.

[49] I was at a party, and my friend called me and asked me why I had messaged her so many mean things on Facebook.

[50] And I told her, I haven't been on Facebook all day.

[51] So another friend in our group drove me home from the party to see what this was all about.

[52] We thought maybe my Facebook was hacked.

[53] Maybe someone was playing a joke on me. So we went back to my house from the party and logged onto Facebook.

[54] and we realized that there was a second Vera on Facebook.

[55] It was an exact replica of my Facebook.

[56] It was the same profile picture, the same bio, but the statuses were Vera Smith is getting laid and something like Vera Smith is a slut.

[57] And then in the bio it said things like, hi, I'm a Cokehead whore that goes to your parties to really, explicit things.

[58] I don't know if I want to say, but it was really horrible.

[59] It was really cruel.

[60] At first, I was kind of freaking out, but I wasn't panicked.

[61] I was like, someone's pulling a mean prank on me, whatever.

[62] But then there was an album, those photo albums on Facebook.

[63] The first picture was of me with a bunch of girls at a party that I wasn't really super close with.

[64] They were kind of like the popular preppy girls.

[65] And I just happened to be in a picture with them.

[66] The caption was something like, look at me. I think I'm so cool.

[67] and popular, but no one in this picture really likes me. The second picture was of me and my friend Brady's hoodie just playing around, and I had been nominated for the best dressed superlative my senior years.

[68] So it was just a picture of me in this really ugly outfit wearing Brady's hoodie.

[69] And it said, look at me, best dressed sarcastically.

[70] There were a couple more of those pictures of mean, snarky captions.

[71] But then the last picture was of me, a selfie that I had taken, a mirror selfie with an old school camera.

[72] And it was me with this nice headband, wearing a white dress in a mirror.

[73] The caption of that picture on this fake page was, you think I'm so innocent, but just guess what's in my belly.

[74] And mentioned the fact that I had to have an abortion.

[75] Over the weekend, the fake Vera profile had sent friend requests to essentially everyone in her high school.

[76] Here's Vera's friend, Noelle.

[77] I received a friend request from the profile, and I remember originally thinking it was odd.

[78] Unclear of thought, why would Vera make this?

[79] Why would she be saying these things and what?

[80] going on here?

[81] By Monday, everyone in my grade and most of the people at my school had been friended by this Facebook.

[82] So they knew that I was pregnant.

[83] They knew that I had to have an abortion.

[84] And they saw all these things in the bio that I was a co -core, that I had sex with everyone, which just wasn't true.

[85] I just lost my virginity.

[86] And it was really awful.

[87] Honestly, I was getting bullied a lot.

[88] I was having people scream murderer and abortion girl at me in the halls and in the parking lots.

[89] I was getting death threats in my locker.

[90] Even some teachers made some weird snide comments about abortion during class looking directly at me. It was pretty terrible.

[91] I started to stay home from school a lot.

[92] When Vera's mom learned about her daughter being bullied, she contacted law enforcement to see if they could help.

[93] Here she is.

[94] Because it was clear that it was threatening her safety at school.

[95] I knew that there would be a lot of pushback about her having had an abortion and this outed her as having had one.

[96] I was really afraid for her safety and I called the police and they came over and they said there was no plausible threat to her safety or her life and therefore they couldn't get involved.

[97] So we were just reeling.

[98] I was positively reeling.

[99] I don't even know how to answer.

[100] I mean, I was in shock and really afraid.

[101] The school's response was we had an interim principal at the time who was several years into his retirement and came back for one semester or one year.

[102] He was very unresponsive, is the only word I can think of.

[103] I brought someone with me to take notes and to be my reality check afterwards.

[104] And we both walked out of there thinking, what just happened?

[105] He basically said nothing and didn't really have any kind of a plan about how he was going to deal with this in the school.

[106] When this was starting, a lot of people thought that the people responsible for this Facebook were Noel and Cora because we had gotten into a big fight and the email address associated with this Facebook was something like NC4Eva at gmail .com, aka Noel and Cora at gmail .com.

[107] So I assumed, my mom assumed, all of my friends assumed that Noelle and Cora were responsible for creating this Facebook.

[108] It was a few days after I received the friend request from the profile and Cora contacted me and told me people around school think that we did it.

[109] They think we made the Facebook.

[110] And I thought that's ridiculous.

[111] I went to look for myself and she said something to do with the email.

[112] So I went and I looked and saw our initials.

[113] And that was the first time where it opened up the possibility that we were being blamed and framed for this.

[114] And it just seemed pretty surreal and I feel like stupid is a harsh word, but that's definitely where my high school brain went.

[115] I just thought, who's going to believe this?

[116] who's going to think that we did this?

[117] Once you had heard that people were making these accusations, did you make contact with Vera at this time, or were you at this point not speaking to one another?

[118] We weren't speaking to one another through most of it.

[119] I have this vague recollection of a conversation telling her it wasn't me, but we didn't have a lot of direct contact while this was all.

[120] all going on.

[121] How would you say this incident impacted you at the time?

[122] I really turned away from my high school life for a while.

[123] It impacted me because I saw a really sad and scary side of this human experience, the ability to kind of switch mental faculties in the beat of a drum, and it shook me to witness that.

[124] It also created such a deep, deep connection with myself in a way that I don't think I would have been able to experience.

[125] It is a little bit easier to see when you know something so clearly in yourself that this is not me. It helped me stand so strong in who I was and know that no matter what is going on around me, I can come home to myself and know what's kind of true and real in my body.

[126] And that was incredibly important and continued into my life now.

[127] 14 years later, I will do my best to represent without speaking for Kora, but I know it affected her academically more because the administration was being very strict on both of us.

[128] She had been threatened with suspension.

[129] She had to face the people who were saying that she was doing all of these things on a daily basis.

[130] And I think that is much harder when you're facing it every day.

[131] So at this point, I did start staying home.

[132] I was really scared to go to school, so I started staying home a lot more.

[133] And while I was staying home, this Facebook was constantly messaging people in my grade, saying horribly mean personal things to them, things that only me and someone in our close group of friends would know, mocking friends for things they had done, embarrassing moments in their lives, really personal things.

[134] And a lot of people in my grade, a lot of people at my school thought that it was me. They didn't realize that there were two separate Facebooks.

[135] They thought it was me that was saying these things to them.

[136] And so a lot of people were really angry at me and wouldn't even answer my calls.

[137] And since I wasn't at school, I couldn't really defend myself.

[138] They would even, this Facebook would message my best friends, my best friend since elementary school, the one that I was with when I found out I was pregnant, Lila, she messaged the Facebook and said, listen, Vera gets it.

[139] You've proved your point.

[140] Please delete this.

[141] This is the last thing she needs.

[142] And the Facebook messaged her back and said something like, well, Vera knew what she was doing and got herself into this little pickle now, didn't she?

[143] I would message the Facebook and say, like, Noel and Cora, please delete this.

[144] I'm sorry for whatever happened in our fight if I hurt your feelings.

[145] Just please delete this.

[146] I can't live like this anymore.

[147] and the Facebook would message me back, something like, you did this to yourself, I'm not going anywhere.

[148] And this whole time when I was staying home, my friend Brady was a really good friend to me. He really, really stuck by me. He came over after school almost every day, bringing me my homework.

[149] He came away with me and my family.

[150] He went to see musicals with us.

[151] He often was at family dinner with us.

[152] He was really, really supporting me during everything that was going on.

[153] He would tell me the mean things that my friends were saying about me at school, so I knew who I could and couldn't trust.

[154] He was really all I had at this point, and I just was so, so grateful to him for sticking by me and being such a good friend for loving me through something that made me feel so unlovable.

[155] He came over in the night before my abortion and was with me, and we were really just good for him.

[156] friends.

[157] I remember one time I was in the parking lot leaving school and someone screamed abortion girl at me and Brady wrapped his arm around me and said, don't worry about it and put me in his car and drove me home while I was crying.

[158] He would help me draft up messages to send to the Facebook asking Cora and Noel to delete the Facebook.

[159] He would let me sob in his lap.

[160] I was really grateful to him for his loyalty and I was really scared of losing him.

[161] So I would honestly just do whatever he wanted.

[162] And then one day, he actually told me that there was a rumor going around that I had made the Facebook myself to get attention.

[163] I remember he asked me, he said, it's not true, right?

[164] You wouldn't do that, right?

[165] And I remember being so paranoid and hurt and upset and heartbroken that he would think I could have done something like this.

[166] Brady was my everything at that point.

[167] He was my best friend, and it hurt me so much.

[168] I was talking about how much I wanted to die all the time because of what was happening to me. I would burst into tears begging him to believe me that I wouldn't do something like this to myself, that I really wanted it to stop.

[169] I wanted this to be over.

[170] He said, okay, I guess I believe you.

[171] You didn't do it though, right?

[172] And I was like, no, dude, I would never do this to myself.

[173] Please believe me. I had absolutely no idea who was spreading this rumor that I had created the Facebook myself, that I was ruining my life myself.

[174] But apparently a lot of people believed that I did it to get attention at school because whoever was spreading the rumor was convincing.

[175] It was really awful.

[176] And I felt really isolated.

[177] He really positioned himself to be all I had.

[178] And on December 1st, he was hanging out with another one of my best best friends from high school.

[179] He had gotten close with Eve.

[180] They were both really present for me. Brady and Eve had gotten really close because they were both tag teaming, taking care of me and being really good friends to me. So one day they were at the Dunkin' Donuts drive -thru, grabbing coffee.

[181] And Brady told Eve that he had created the Facebook.

[182] Eve told me that she was terrified.

[183] She said she was in Brady's car.

[184] He was driving.

[185] And she was in the drive -through and she asked, who do you think did this to Vera?

[186] And Brady was just like, oh, okay, jigs up.

[187] I did it.

[188] Eve was in shock.

[189] It was one of the scariest moments of her life at that point because she had never encountered someone that was so sadistic and so cruel and diabolical and intentionally causing so much pain.

[190] She was really scared.

[191] She was in the car with him and just pretended like it didn't bother her until he dropped her off.

[192] And then She told me and Lila, our other best friend, later on that day at a diner.

[193] We found out that Brady was behind it all along.

[194] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[195] She had been under the influence and that she left him there.

[196] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[197] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel and route to the next location.

[198] What happens next depends on who you ask.

[199] Was it a crime of passion?

[200] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[201] This was clearly an intentional act.

[202] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[203] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[204] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[205] Everyone had an opinion.

[206] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not.

[207] come to a unanimous decision.

[208] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[209] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[210] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondry Plus.

[211] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[212] I'm Dan Tiberski.

[213] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[214] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[215] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[216] She's like, I can't.

[217] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[218] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[219] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[220] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[221] Well, you were holding something back.

[222] Intentionally.

[223] Yeah, yeah.

[224] Well, yeah.

[225] No, it's hysteria.

[226] It's all in your head.

[227] It's not physical.

[228] Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[229] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Sam?

[230] them?

[231] Or is it something else entirely?

[232] Something's wrong here.

[233] Something's not right.

[234] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[235] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[236] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[237] You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[238] It was horrible.

[239] It was shocking and devastating.

[240] It was such a mind.

[241] I just remember sitting there thinking about all of the times when he had come over to bring me my homework, when I had sobbed in his lap, when he had helped me draft up messages to send to Noelle and Cora begging them to remove the Facebook.

[242] I remember Noel telling me that she didn't do it, that she didn't make it, and me just not believing her and thinking that she did.

[243] I remembered the rumor that I started the Facebook myself to get attention, and I remembered that feeling in my good.

[244] that I felt when he told me that he thought the rumor was true and how desperate I was to convince him that I wouldn't have done this to myself when he was the one spreading the rumor all along.

[245] I just, my head, my mind was just racing like crazy.

[246] And Lila and Eve, we were all in shock.

[247] Everyone was just in shock.

[248] I mean, he was the most fun, joyful, hilarious, fun guy.

[249] We just had the best time.

[250] We were just always giggling.

[251] We were always just making up funny dances to our favorite songs and singing rent around the house.

[252] And it was shocking.

[253] We were always the life of the party together.

[254] We were always together for years.

[255] It was us.

[256] It was our group.

[257] It was our friends.

[258] Lila, my best friend since elementary school, she is so amazing.

[259] She has detailed journal entries from every event in our lives since we were in elementary school.

[260] It's amazing.

[261] But her journal entry says that on December 1st, Eve told us that Brady had told her that he made the Facebook.

[262] And we went to the mall in our town to try to find him.

[263] He worked at, we were going to try to confront him, which, of course, looking back, confronting someone at their work is not a good idea, but we were 17 -year -old girls.

[264] And he wasn't there.

[265] So I called him and Lila says, I said, hey, what are you doing tonight?

[266] Let's hang out.

[267] And Brady was like, okay, yeah.

[268] And apparently I was like, well, yeah, we'll hang out because you love me, right?

[269] I'm your best friend, right?

[270] And he was like, yeah, of course.

[271] And then I was like, I fucking know you did it.

[272] I know that you did it.

[273] And that he was like, I'm so sorry.

[274] I don't know what to say.

[275] And then I just hung up and we went back to her house.

[276] And I was really, I've always been really close with her parents.

[277] And I just sobbed to them for a really long time.

[278] I've been trying to remember how I found out.

[279] and I don't have that piece of the memory back yet.

[280] I know I cut him out immediately, just stopped seeing him and talking to him.

[281] I became so exhausted.

[282] I had already been fighting with the school and this police thing.

[283] I tried again, and I'd already been doing that for, like, I don't know, two months or three months before we found out that Brady was the culprit.

[284] So by the time that happened, I was just flat.

[285] I was just out of my league.

[286] I really didn't know how to handle this.

[287] And it was very painful, very painful.

[288] It was just awful to feel like I didn't know how to handle her.

[289] I didn't know how to handle the school.

[290] And meanwhile, the other mothers were judging, judging, judging.

[291] Pretty much the only friends that I had who were in any way, shape, or form in my corner, were not moms.

[292] were people who I had been friends with before I had my daughter.

[293] And all these, like, quote -unquote parents of her friends and people I thought we were a village raising our kids together, the kids abandoned her and the parents abandoned me. I'm so sorry.

[294] Thank you.

[295] She definitely missed school, a lot of school, and she acted out in ways that were difficult as a parent to manage.

[296] She was lashing out at me and lashing out at everyone.

[297] She was righteously angry, but it's never easy to be in the path of that.

[298] I was furious and devastated, and I started acting out.

[299] We sat next to each other in forensics class for all of senior year.

[300] And I remember the Monday after the weekend that I found out Brady created the Facebook himself.

[301] we were in class and we were talking about serial killers or how to catch criminals.

[302] And I raised my hand and the teacher said, yes.

[303] And I said, how do you know if someone is a sociopath?

[304] Is it if they do something really sick and sadistic to the people closest to them and really purposefully isolate them so that you're the only person that they trust while simultaneously systematically destroying their lives on purpose?

[305] And the teacher was like, yeah, sounds about right.

[306] And I was like, okay, then can I move my seat because I don't feel safe because I sat next to Brady.

[307] I was a hormonal teenage girl who had just been betrayed in a way that I didn't even know was possible.

[308] And I probably could have handled it better.

[309] I probably shouldn't have done that in forensics class.

[310] I yelled at him in school and he got really, really silent and quiet.

[311] And he really played it so perfectly.

[312] I remember Lila, my best friend, she really explained it so perfectly how well he did at making himself seem so small and so sad and so regretful.

[313] And I felt like I had to stand up for myself.

[314] And he wasn't getting punished by anyone, by his parents, by the school.

[315] People in high school were just starting to be allowed to have Facebook.

[316] We were just moving on from MySpace.

[317] So cyberbullying wasn't really part of the vernacular at this point.

[318] A lot of people didn't know what it was or how serious it was or the implications of cyberbullying.

[319] According to the U .S. Department of Health and Human services stopbullying .org, cyberbullying is bullying that takes place over digital devices, like cell phones, computers, and tablets.

[320] Cyberbullying can occur through text, apps, social media, forums, or gaming where people can view, participate in, or share content.

[321] It includes sending, posting, or sharing negative, harmful, false, or mean content about someone else.

[322] It can include sharing personal or private information about someone that causes embarrassing or humiliation.

[323] Some cyberbullying crosses the line into unlawful or criminal behavior.

[324] The 2019 National Crime Victimization Survey by the National Center for Education Statistics and Bureau of Justice indicates that nationwide, about 16 % of students in grades 9 to 12, experienced cyberbullying.

[325] The 2019 Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Department indicates that an estimated 15 .7 % of high school students were electronically bullied in the 12 months prior.

[326] All states now have laws that require schools to respond to bullying.

[327] And as cyberbullying has become more prevalent with the use of technology, many states now include cyberbullying or mention cyberbullying offenses under these laws.

[328] Schools may take action either as required by law or with local or school policies that allow them to discipline or take other action.

[329] Some states also have provisions to address bullying if it affects school performance.

[330] No one knew what to do with it.

[331] My mom went in and talked to the principal and he really didn't take it very seriously.

[332] I remember Brady's parents really didn't take it very seriously.

[333] And I think part of that was he was controlling the narrative the whole time.

[334] Because he had isolated me from so many of my friends and from the adults at my school, he made it seem as though it wasn't as bad as it was.

[335] A lot of people didn't know that I was messaging the Facebook constantly begging, begging, whoever was behind it, who we thought was Noel and Cora at the time, begging them to take it down, and that I was suicidal.

[336] A lot of people didn't know that how much this was impacting me. And Brady was at school.

[337] He was controlling the narrative and he was my main line of communication to my friends.

[338] He really made it seem like it really wasn't that big of a deal.

[339] It was just a prank.

[340] And a lot of people saw through it.

[341] But then I kept getting angrier and angrier at him.

[342] And he kept getting smaller and smaller and refused to talk about it and just got really quiet.

[343] I remember, well, Lila reminded me recently.

[344] She has diary entries from all of this.

[345] Lila reminded me that Brady was out of school after we found this.

[346] out the day after we found out, or the day after I found out that it was him because he was suicidal.

[347] And two students apparently had gone to the school nurse because they were so worried that Brady was going to kill himself because of what he had done to me. And at first, everyone was kind of on my side.

[348] They were like, wow, this is really sick.

[349] Brady is really sick for doing this.

[350] But then he just kept minimizing it and minimizing it by just refusing to acknowledge that it had ever happened, pretending that it didn't happen.

[351] And he was so sorry and he was suicidal and then he became the victim.

[352] And I was like the bad guy because I kept lashing out at him and I wouldn't drop it.

[353] Everyone just wanted things to go back to normal for senior year and I wouldn't drop it.

[354] I wouldn't let him get away with it.

[355] I wouldn't stop talking about it.

[356] It was horrific and people didn't understand the depths of it.

[357] They didn't get it because they weren't there.

[358] Brady was there.

[359] Brady knew the depths of it.

[360] Brady was controlling the whole thing, the whole time.

[361] So he also was controlling what everyone else thought.

[362] And I just felt like I was going insane.

[363] I couldn't believe that people were just moving on from this.

[364] And he really did such a good job at just shrinking himself and looking so sad and small that everyone started feeling bad for him because I was so mean to him that he just turned it around.

[365] And it was like nothing ever happened except I had lost everyone and everything and he had completely destroyed me. And it turns out that he was the one.

[366] that spread the rumor that I had created the Facebook to get attention myself.

[367] He came over that day and asked, did you do this?

[368] There's a rumor going around that you created the Facebook yourself.

[369] Did you do this?

[370] And I was so desperately trying to get him to believe me that I didn't.

[371] And he was the one spreading the rumor all along.

[372] And he was the one behind the Facebook all along.

[373] It was really sick.

[374] It was really, really twisted.

[375] And the fact that he told my best friend that he really became friends with through me, she thinks another way of trying to isolate me from one more person because he told her not to tell me. Of course she was going to tell me. But when he told her that he did it, he was trying to get her to not tell me so that there was like a secret divide between me and her.

[376] He was trying to isolate me from another one of my closest people.

[377] Yeah, it was so sick.

[378] I'm so sorry.

[379] Yeah.

[380] It sounds like he.

[381] he was very skilled at manipulation.

[382] That's the thing.

[383] That's why he was able to convince everyone that he was so sorry later on.

[384] And to feel sorry for him, he's the most skillfully manipulative person I've ever met.

[385] I've never met someone, even in my adult life.

[386] This is a 17 -year -old kid with that much time and dedication and that much of a will to keep this shit up.

[387] I mean, that is so scary, man. How scary is that shit?

[388] You think about like Dick from first season.

[389] He has the money and the time, and he's grown into becoming someone that is capable of creating these fake identities and keeping up with all this.

[390] He was a kid in his senior year of high school.

[391] The school did not give a shit about anything, but I was going to therapy at that point, and I needed him to hear me and see me. I needed his parents to hear me and see me and see the impact.

[392] It felt like everyone was trying to move on, and I was picking up the pieces of my life, and everyone just wanted this to disappear because it was.

[393] more convenient.

[394] And I needed help.

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[397] And I'm Sarah Haggy.

[398] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[399] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[400] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

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[402] Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[404] on Wondry Plus.

[405] I needed acknowledgement.

[406] So we asked his family to join us for a therapy session, and his dad said that he thought Brady was in love with me, and I said, no, that's not the case.

[407] He said, no, that's not the case.

[408] I was like an emo teenager, and I read the lyrics to this song that I really related to in my experience.

[409] I think it was like a paramour song or something.

[410] I don't really remember that much else about it.

[411] I just remember him sitting there silently and barely saying, anything and me just crying and trying to get a reaction.

[412] I was kind of surprised, pleasantly surprised that they agreed to come and that they seemed to be concerned for their son's mental health.

[413] He basically cried the whole time.

[414] And when I think it was with Vera's therapist, when she was asking him, what's going on, what's making you cry, blah, blah, blah.

[415] He just couldn't answer.

[416] I don't think there was romantic love, but I think he was obsessed with me. I think he was jealous that I had so many close friends.

[417] I think he wanted to be my only close friend.

[418] I think he wanted to position himself as my caretaker.

[419] He starts this fire so that he can put it out.

[420] He wants to be my person, my caretaker, my savior.

[421] And then I think one day he just got sick of the lie and told my friend.

[422] He would be at our house watching her cry over these horrible things that were being said back and forth on the Facebook and then he would go home and answer them as if he would be holding my daughter in his arms like, oh, I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

[423] And then he would go home and feed the flames, you know, add to it.

[424] I do remember that afterwards I fully expected them to pay or at least pay half for the therapy session since it was their son who was the perpetrator.

[425] And they just waltzed right out of there.

[426] And I said something like, well, aren't you going to contribute to the session?

[427] And they said, no, it's your session.

[428] And I was like, wow, that really made an impression on me. It just made me feel that they were really okay with this shirking of responsibility, which is what he ultimately did.

[429] And ultimately just did everything he could to woo everybody in the grade to his side by playing somehow the victim.

[430] Did he ever apologize?

[431] Not really.

[432] We all ended up at prom together months later, and he wrapped himself around my legs and was crying and yelling, I love you, I love you, I love you.

[433] And I kind of stepped myself away from him.

[434] And that was the closest I think I ever got to, and I'm sorry.

[435] He just made it disappear.

[436] It was so incredible, the skill of what he did, being able to just pretend it didn't happen.

[437] And then everyone else around was like, oh, okay, I guess it wasn't that big of a deal.

[438] But he had been there through the whole abortion.

[439] He was my right -hand man. He was my best friend.

[440] He was my confidant, my therapist, my person.

[441] He positioned himself as my person.

[442] And the worst part of all of this, honestly, I think, is a few years later after I'd gone to college, I ran into him at a park in our neighborhood.

[443] I was home for winter break, and I ran into him and his dad.

[444] He tried to make small talk with me and give me a hug.

[445] Everyone just acted like nothing happened.

[446] And I said to him, Brady, why did you do this?

[447] Why did you do this?

[448] You destroyed me. He goes, I think I just really didn't want to be friends with you anymore.

[449] And I think, honestly, out of everything that he did, that was the worst part.

[450] That years later, he was still trying to make me feel unlovable and you useless and pathetic and alone.

[451] I was so shocked to have even run into him that I didn't even respond, but what I would have said in the moment if I had the wherewithal was, you didn't want to be my friend?

[452] Then why did you isolate me from everyone I loved so you would be my only friend?

[453] Why would you come over every single day if you didn't want to be friends with me anymore?

[454] All these years later, he still couldn't just take responsibility and accountability.

[455] He still years later had to try to find a way to dig the knife in a little bit further and make me feel a little bit more pathetic.

[456] But that's just not true.

[457] He wanted to be my only friend.

[458] He was obsessed with me. Or he wouldn't have, if he didn't want to be my friend, he would have just stopped talking to me. He wouldn't have created this whole world of our own where he was my caretaker and savior and everyone else was against me. I cannot even imagine what he's capable of now.

[459] That's another reason why I wanted to do this podcast is because these are patterns.

[460] Someone doesn't do something that sick.

[461] This is different than just bullying.

[462] This is different than saying something mean on an Instagram comment.

[463] This is very calculated and sadistic and diabolical and intentional.

[464] He knew what he was doing and he wanted to do it.

[465] And that's what scares me. People like that don't just do this kind of shit once.

[466] They keep doing it.

[467] And I saw someone that remained friends with him years ago who said that he did something not similar to her, but screwed her over years later too.

[468] What do you hope that others will take out of hearing this story?

[469] First of all, I think that so many kids now are dealing with cyberbullying in some form, and I think it's just gotten so much worse and so much bigger.

[470] I really want them to feel like they're not alone, and they can come out of this on the other end, better than ever and stronger than ever.

[471] I was destroyed by this, but now I'm more empathetic than I ever was before.

[472] I'm a much better friend.

[473] I have more compassion for people going through things.

[474] I can understand and empathize with people's struggles way more.

[475] And I'm more discerning.

[476] I'm more wise.

[477] This did really help me grow.

[478] And I want people to know that they can come out on the other end of this better and that they don't have to take drastic measures to make it end.

[479] There were so many times that I wanted to just kill myself.

[480] And I want kids to know that they don't have to resort to that, that it will get better, that it will end.

[481] I never thought I would tell my story, but when everything started happening in Texas, I just knew that I had to speak out.

[482] My abortion was really traumatic because of the circumstances surrounding it, but at least I was able to go to a safe, clean clinic.

[483] I'm a white middle -class girl from a really liberal part of the country, and that comes with a lot of privilege.

[484] And at least as traumatic as my abortion was, I just felt like I had to speak up for people that are living through these incredibly scary, Orwellian times in this country and make them feel less alone.

[485] And yeah, I wanted to be a voice.

[486] So that's a big part of why I wanted to speak out to.

[487] And I so appreciate you doing so.

[488] And I think it takes so much bravery and vulnerability to share something so personal.

[489] I greatly appreciate you submitting your story and being willing to share so much time and energy with me and doing so.

[490] What I hope people will take away from this is that a high school student is still a child.

[491] And even though they have adult -sized bodies that can become pregnant, they are not capable of handling those things without support for anyone to have to have such a difficult event in one's life, the publicized, made fun of, criticized, judged, name called, you name it, bullied over, is just absolutely cruel and very, very difficult to overcome as for her and for me. I would just hope that people can find in themselves some compassion when a young person is in a situation where they make the difficult choice to have an abortion.

[492] I was pretty much the same age when I had my abortion.

[493] And for me, the choice was not as difficult.

[494] My parents were very supportive even in 1971 because that pregnancy was the consequence of a rape.

[495] They took me to New York, which was the only state in the country that was legal, and they helped me, and they made the appointment, and they were there for me as best they could be, as well as they knew how to be.

[496] They were very old -fashioned type parents compared to parents these days, or me. But I'm so grateful that they were able to be compassionate towards me, and I just wish that the world would find that understanding and compassion for, especially for young women who have to make a choice that will affect them for the rest of their lives.

[497] and it's painful and difficult and confusing.

[498] And it's tragic to me that anyone should ever be shamed for whatever they choose.

[499] I just so appreciate you and admire you and you're standing up for your daughter and you're being there for her.

[500] Thank you.

[501] It's a very, very valuable thing.

[502] I'm just so happy she had you.

[503] Thank you.

[504] I'm happy she has you.

[505] I think this has been a very healing process for her to do this podcast.

[506] Actually, she's felt very supported, and I appreciate that a lot.

[507] And here it is, we're still processing, but I think this has been very helpful in that process.

[508] So I thank you, and I thank you for all the work you do.

[509] It's really brave and beautiful.

[510] Thank you so much.

[511] It's truly an honor.

[512] My mom was and is my rock.

[513] I mean, what she went through during this time was just as bad, if not worse, than what I was going through.

[514] I mean, seeing her child go through something like this and not being able to protect me or stand up for me in the way that she wanted because adults at the school weren't taking it seriously.

[515] I think it was extremely painful for her.

[516] The experience did bring us even closer.

[517] She's my best friend.

[518] She's so strong.

[519] She has so much wisdom.

[520] She's so kind and brilliant and powerful.

[521] And just her strength and resolve, it's just really amazing.

[522] And we don't talk about this very often.

[523] We've kind of tried to just move past it.

[524] I do talk to my friends about it that we all went through it together more than I talked to her about it.

[525] I hope listeners will gain the ability to look at themselves and be in love with who they are.

[526] I think we all go through such hardships, what Vera went through and what I did and Hora.

[527] And sometimes people tell stories about us that we would never think is appropriately representing who we are.

[528] The world can misrepresent us or hurt us, but I'm still me and I know who I am.

[529] I won't let anyone else write my story for me. And I think that's a special opportunity for each and every one of us to know who we are, the hard parts and the beautiful ones too.

[530] What is your relationship with Noelle like now?

[531] Me and Noel are really close again.

[532] I mean, I'm really close with everyone again.

[533] All of the relationships that this broke have been mended.

[534] I got a lot of apologies years and years later.

[535] which felt really good and really healing.

[536] And becoming friends with Noel again has been really healing as well.

[537] She's amazing.

[538] She is just such a kind, good, genuine, peaceful person.

[539] And I still feel so bad that I thought that she did this.

[540] We ended up hanging out again, I would say within weeks, probably, of finding out that it was Brady.

[541] And I think it was fab.

[542] I also know that it was a really messed up situation.

[543] So for me, I knew that they, anyone who had thought it was us, including Vera and Vera's mom would know eventually that it wasn't.

[544] And then when they did, it made it easier, I think, for me to just kind of go back, go back to Vera, go back to our friend group.

[545] and feel almost like nothing happened.

[546] With Vera and I, it was proximity.

[547] We gave ourselves the time to be near each other, and then over the years developed a closer relationship again.

[548] So more social at first, and then when I moved to the city, she would come visit me, and I would go visit her in college.

[549] and we were able to get back that closeness and that intimacy in our friendship over time.

[550] I've moved on from the incident, but the kind of fear of betrayal that it instilled in me, the loss of my innocence, it instilled this fear in me of abandonment and loss and betrayal that really wasn't there before, and I don't think we'll ever go away.

[551] I think we should take teenagers seriously when they go through things.

[552] They're not jokes.

[553] They're little humans that are feeling things just as intensely, if not more intensely, than adults.

[554] Thank you so much for taking the time and energy to share your story on the podcast.

[555] I so appreciate it.

[556] I think it's so important to speak out about cyberbullying and hopefully spread more awareness about the impact that it truly has on individuals.

[557] Thank you so much, Tiffany.

[558] I just admire you and respect you and appreciate you and all that you do for, Survivor is so much.

[559] I just think you're so amazing.

[560] And your podcast is so incredibly beautiful and unique in that it's not salacious.

[561] It's not soundbitey.

[562] You really are telling these stories.

[563] And I think that's why so many people are coming to you wanting to share their stories because they trust you and I trust you.

[564] And I really appreciate you.

[565] And I think we all do.

[566] Thank you so much.

[567] That means a lot.

[568] Stopbullying .gov provides information from various U .S. government agencies on what bullying is, what cyberbullying is, who is at risk, and how you can prevent and respond to bullying.

[569] Visit stopbullying .org for more information.

[570] If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal ideation or thoughts of suicide, please contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1 -800 -273.

[571] 8255.

[572] The hotline is available free 24 -7 with services in English and Spanish.

[573] For more information and support, visit Suicide Prevention Lifeline .org.

[574] Thank you so much for listening.

[575] Until next week, stay safe, friends.

[576] Something Was Wrong is an Audiochuck production, created and hosted by Tiffany Reese.

[577] Our theme song was originally composed by Gladra.

[578] covered this season by Kenna and the Kings.

[579] So what do you think, Chuck?

[580] Do you approve?

[581] If you like something was wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[582] Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon Music.

[583] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.