7 - Seven Murders in Heaven

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVey, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Martyrs in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] You guys, hi, we're back.

[17] Hey, we're back from a week -long hiatus.

[18] And now we're here to deliver.

[19] your favorite to give you nightmares and anxiety your favorite your favorite my favorite murder's favorite my favorite murder I didn't get that sorry we should have rehearsed that we should have that's that's Karen and that's Georgia and um yes we've been on a slight hiatus yeah we had life things happen to us very large life things not murder thank God no but um nice things Georgia got married And a beautiful ceremony on the coast.

[20] Thank you.

[21] Karen's mom died.

[22] She died.

[23] After a long illness.

[24] Yeah, I'm sorry.

[25] It's okay.

[26] It was actually really lovely.

[27] Yeah.

[28] It was kind, for me, it was a big, about two -week period, though.

[29] Stress.

[30] Yeah, or just like big feelings.

[31] Of waiting between her passing and having to do the, and the memorial.

[32] Yeah.

[33] Which is rare, right?

[34] Yeah.

[35] I think my dad was waiting, he put a little time in there so that people could come and plan it out and make sure they were there.

[36] And then it turned out to be a brilliant idea because there was tons of people.

[37] It was really lovely.

[38] It's great.

[39] I'm so glad.

[40] Yeah.

[41] It was nice.

[42] Then I drove back home, the front end of my car fell off.

[43] What?

[44] Didn't I tell you that?

[45] No. I drove six hours back from San Francisco.

[46] I took the riverside exit, came to a stop and the front bumper, like everything under the lights and down.

[47] just went into the street and I had, this is my favorite part, I had to pick it up and stick it into my car, which is very small.

[48] And there was a guy in the car next to me. He's like, you need my help?

[49] And I was like, yes.

[50] And so he helped me put it in the car.

[51] And as he came around the side to help me, he looked at all the other cars around us and goes, you can help people, you know, and started yelling at everybody else for not helping me. Oh, I love him.

[52] Which was beautiful.

[53] And how I think many of us feel.

[54] Yeah.

[55] That's so nice.

[56] Yeah.

[57] There's so nice.

[58] Yeah.

[59] There's.

[60] there's just like, do I help?

[61] Or is that weird if I help?

[62] Right.

[63] And can I be of help?

[64] Like, if it was me, I'd be like, can I even lift that thing or whatever?

[65] Do you need anything?

[66] Yeah.

[67] Yeah.

[68] Do you want me to park in front of your car with my lights on?

[69] So if they hit me, they won't hit you.

[70] It's out of her car.

[71] Should I use myself as a human shield?

[72] Exactly.

[73] To make sure no more damage comes to your car.

[74] Exactly.

[75] Or do you want me to play some really good music so you can like do this with Get it done?

[76] Yeah.

[77] And how do you feel after your big week?

[78] I feel great.

[79] The wedding, the whole fucking weekend was like, I'm going to cry if I start talking about it.

[80] It was like perfect and wonderful and like this outpouring of love.

[81] And Vince said this really sweet thing of like, you know, when you go to weddings and you're really, you can tell a wedding, people believe that you're going to, you're a good couple when they have a really good time at your wedding.

[82] Yes.

[83] You know what I mean?

[84] Like you don't want to fucking dance to like boo on down when you're like, well, I'm pretty sure he's going to die of a heroin overdose or.

[85] cheat on her or she's like, I know she's fucked or, you know.

[86] No, everybody would, everybody had like hearts in their own eyes about your guy's marriage.

[87] It was nice.

[88] And I mean, everybody cried at the ceremony because you, you started having a little bit of a cry voice, but like you were trying to cover it.

[89] I was.

[90] So your voice just kept getting higher and higher and higher.

[91] It was my favorite.

[92] You were like, hi, George.

[93] It was so cute.

[94] There was this moment that when I first got up there.

[95] I just had immediately started crying, but I didn't want tears because I didn't want my makeup to get ruined.

[96] So it just came out of my nose instead.

[97] And I gesture towards Vince's pocket square.

[98] Yeah.

[99] And he like thought I, he fixed it because he thought I was like in the middle of our ceremony going like, fix your pocket square.

[100] And I was, I was fortified.

[101] I was like, no, can I have that?

[102] And he gave it to me and I just snotted all over his pocket square.

[103] But what kind of a human being would I be if I was like, fix your packet square?

[104] I think he was Just like, whatever you need.

[105] This is what I'm doing what you need.

[106] That was a really hilarious moment, though, because no, I didn't see the fix it.

[107] Okay, good.

[108] Or any of that.

[109] I literally saw you point toward it and then him flick out like a magician, a big, huge red handkerchief.

[110] It was very, very cute.

[111] Okay, good.

[112] And what's what I'm all about these days, real feelings, real time, real feelings.

[113] Here they are.

[114] They're just out there and you can grab them and work.

[115] And it's like, of course you're crying.

[116] course, it's like these are, you know, these are the peak experiences of all of our lives.

[117] These are the days to hold on to.

[118] These.

[119] Because they will not last forever.

[120] Nope.

[121] Right?

[122] Does they want to.

[123] Do they want to.

[124] Something because I want to.

[125] I'm doing Billy Joel.

[126] Yeah.

[127] Which one are you doing that too.

[128] That depends.

[129] These are the days to hold on to.

[130] That one.

[131] These are be.

[132] This has been my favorite murder.

[133] Goodbye.

[134] Goodbye.

[135] That's all it was.

[136] People are like, I got nothing that I have.

[137] came here for.

[138] No, we mean we're murdering it at life.

[139] Yeah, murders.

[140] We're murdering emotions.

[141] Before we talk about our favorite murders, I want to ask you, and I haven't watched this week, but did you watch this People v. O .J. Simpson last week.

[142] Oh, yeah.

[143] How did you feel about Dominic Dunn's character?

[144] Okay, wait.

[145] Are you talking about last week, or I just watched one last night?

[146] No, I didn't watch that one yet.

[147] Okay.

[148] The one where he first makes an appearance, and everyone knows who he is.

[149] He's like a famous crime journalist.

[150] I felt good about his character.

[151] Like, I felt like it was accurate to who Dominic Dunn was.

[152] Yes, and it was amazing.

[153] But he was like, he reminded me, his character is so outlandish and insane as a human being he is.

[154] Yeah.

[155] That he, it reminded me of, like, in cold blood, what's his name?

[156] Truman Capote.

[157] Truman Capote's character, you know, it's just so outlandish.

[158] And it's really not necessary in the show.

[159] Right.

[160] But I loved it.

[161] Well, but he is, I mean, I. bet you part of the reason he's there is because he wrote so much on that trial in the real time.

[162] Yes.

[163] And kind of contributed to probably what they're researching.

[164] Like, they might be reading some of his stuff.

[165] No, you're totally right.

[166] Is he still alive, Dominic Dunn?

[167] I don't think so.

[168] I'm not sure.

[169] And of course, we all know his daughter, Dominique Dunn.

[170] Yeah.

[171] Got shot by a rabid fan of her.

[172] A stalker.

[173] Pretty amazing.

[174] I mean, he's kind of one of the original.

[175] And he had a great power privilege and justice was such a good show.

[176] Really good show, but you can find it online.

[177] Yeah.

[178] But he's not a good narrator because he talks too slow.

[179] Right.

[180] And he has a lot of gravitas that he doesn't, that he adds on that he doesn't need.

[181] Yeah.

[182] Where it's like you already have tiny glasses.

[183] We know that you know what you're talking about.

[184] Well, what's so great about the people versus OJ Simpson is there's so many moments in it, including his gravitas and his, you know, cadence that you have to, we've stopped so many times during the show to be like, did that really happen and look it up and it fucking really happened.

[185] Do you mean like the Faye Resnick thing?

[186] Yes, that was amazing.

[187] A fucking Brentwood Hello.

[188] A Brentwood Hello?

[189] Is that even, there's no way that was a thing they did.

[190] I bet it was.

[191] Are you serious?

[192] Yes.

[193] I bet it was in the book.

[194] Right.

[195] I bet someone researched the book.

[196] No, no, for sure.

[197] But I mean, do you think her book was totally true?

[198] Oh, I see her saying that she seemed like a boozy fool.

[199] No, then no, I don't think it was true.

[200] I mean, like, it just seemed like she was talking.

[201] Yeah, she's like, we did Coke all the time.

[202] We were crazy.

[203] Which is like, sure, probably.

[204] But to act like you did that every morning in random homes.

[205] Right.

[206] And that was like the lifestyle and not like they had children that they had a raise and take to school and stuff.

[207] Yeah.

[208] But I mean, that part, I actually did look up what Faye Resnick's role was because I didn't remember her from when it happened in real life.

[209] And all that stuff was.

[210] True.

[211] Someone posted on our Facebook group, their photo of their copy of that book that they've had.

[212] Like, it's like an original copy or something.

[213] It's like, this is a good group of people.

[214] Man, if I get murdered terribly, I will.

[215] You can spill it.

[216] You know what?

[217] You know, you have my official digital permission to just say whatever you think would work best and make you the most money.

[218] What do you think of burbank goodbye is?

[219] Something really gross.

[220] That'd be like slightly.

[221] dinging the side of your minivan out of a Trader Joe's parking lot.

[222] Bye.

[223] All right.

[224] So today our theme is unsolved murders.

[225] Yes.

[226] It's an easy one because because we've been busy and I think, didn't I make it up while we were standing in the parking lot at the end of your wedding?

[227] Yes.

[228] You're like, you know what?

[229] Let's just.

[230] Here's a nice open one that won't, that we'll have lots of choices for.

[231] Yeah, but I feel like throughout like as we go on, they'll be easier and then they're going to get harder and harder.

[232] Do you think they're going to get easier, then get harder and then get easier again?

[233] Yeah.

[234] Like, I think there'll be a point where we're like, we're just getting too specific.

[235] We need to get, you know what I mean?

[236] We're like, like, try to make it easier on ourselves.

[237] Yes.

[238] Over like sandwiches.

[239] We're going to be, we're going to work all the way down to two shots to the back of the head at midnight.

[240] And then we'll be like, murders that happened in 1936 in January, 1936.

[241] The Pantaloon murders.

[242] Yeah.

[243] Do you want to go first?

[244] Do you?

[245] Whatever you think.

[246] I have a theory we were just talking about this.

[247] George and I both think that there's a chance we may have picked the same unsolved murder.

[248] Yeah, let me tell you what my original one was going to be.

[249] But I ended up changing because I was like, because first of all, it's like near your hometown.

[250] Oh, okay.

[251] So there's no way you didn't know it.

[252] And then I looked it up and it was like, I had liked it because there was like it was just so random.

[253] But that meant there really wasn't that much interesting stuff about it.

[254] it.

[255] Right.

[256] And then also, it also meant that, I also looked up and it was like, this is who probably did it.

[257] And she was like not.

[258] It seemed kind of like an obvious answer.

[259] Exactly.

[260] So it was the 2000, mine was going to be the Jenner, California, double murder in 2004, where those kids were camping out on a beach and just got shot with a fucking rare, weird gun.

[261] Yeah.

[262] You know what I'm talking about.

[263] Yes.

[264] Because it didn't just happen there.

[265] It also happened in San Francisco.

[266] Yes.

[267] So I hadn't realized that had happened.

[268] I hadn't realized that they had a couple obvious suspects and so I was going to do that.

[269] I like that one though because and also weren't they like when I like the story when you're reading it and it's like these were two children from a Christian camp.

[270] Oh they yeah.

[271] They were like a squeaky clean as you could possibly be.

[272] Yeah, they were.

[273] And out in the middle.

[274] Jenner is like a big grassy open field of nothing.

[275] The idea that you would get murdered in Jenner's, like someone was going way out of their way.

[276] Right.

[277] Or knew the area so well.

[278] Right.

[279] And was, um, the first thing that came to my mind was that they pissed, they, it was, they pissed someone off earlier the day.

[280] Yeah.

[281] They may be road rage and they saw their fucking car parked out there in the middle of the night.

[282] You know, something's really simple.

[283] Yeah.

[284] There's also that, that rando, um, serial killer that just traveled all across the whole United States.

[285] I think his first name was Israel.

[286] Holy shit.

[287] You know that guy?

[288] No. And he looks like, he looks like a guy that would work at REI.

[289] When I saw his picture, I got super freaked out.

[290] I don't know.

[291] I don't think I've ever been in an REI.

[292] RIA is like, um, you know, like Patagonia.

[293] It's a north face.

[294] Who works?

[295] I don't know who looks.

[296] Oh, just like a dude who would have like medium length sandy blonde curly hair.

[297] Necklace.

[298] Yes, a rope necklace.

[299] Um, that's what this guy It looked like.

[300] And he was randomly killing people all across the country everywhere he went.

[301] And then when they caught him, he committed suicide.

[302] So he never, no one knows if like what he did exactly.

[303] It's just so interesting that the gun was, it was from like 1896.

[304] Oh, is that right?

[305] It was like a shotgun from 1896.

[306] That's probably wrong.

[307] But like a really old vintage.

[308] Yeah, you shouldn't kill someone with a gun so rare.

[309] Everyone take note.

[310] If you're going to kill someone, make it a really obvious gun.

[311] Or not obvious gun.

[312] Yeah, because, no, the antique gun's obvious, right?

[313] Right.

[314] Yeah.

[315] What was he like loading a musket on the beach?

[316] Yeah, they were saying it was one of those fucking guns.

[317] No. Yeah.

[318] That's terrible.

[319] That would mean that there's a delay between killing one and killing the other.

[320] Yeah, and he must have been a good shot if it was at night.

[321] Oh, yoy.

[322] And he grabbed the shell casings too, so there's no shell casings left, which means he must have known where they went.

[323] Because if he was in the sand, he grabbed them out of the air or had like a...

[324] Oh, he had a metal detector.

[325] Did I tell you, Alie got me a metal detector for, yeah.

[326] What?

[327] Yeah.

[328] Who did?

[329] Allie got me for fucking, for my wedding.

[330] No. That is the best gift I've ever heard of.

[331] You have no, I've been talking about that, wanting one, and like just wanting to disappear from life and go be a metal detectus.

[332] Yes.

[333] A detectress.

[334] A detectress.

[335] Oh, my God, that's my new show, the detectress.

[336] The detectress, because I just saw a thing for metal detector vacations.

[337] And I was like, I want to meet the person who would want to go on a metal detector vacation with me. Because that is like, every time I see something like that, I'm like, that's what I like.

[338] I can never figure out what I like until I see it.

[339] I just saw a guy who fucking found a Viking treasure in England with a metal detector.

[340] You mean the hoard of coins?

[341] Yes.

[342] Well, it's so funny.

[343] I didn't know that.

[344] So did you know that metal detector is just something you can just like buy on Amazon?

[345] I had no idea.

[346] Yeah.

[347] Like, it didn't, it seems like something I want so bad that it doesn't make any sense.

[348] That's just like a thing you can buy for like probably $59.

[349] Oh, like you think the government issues them for thousands of dollars.

[350] Or they're like, you can't get a cheap one.

[351] They don't work, you know, like they only work.

[352] So my, you want to go with me to the fucking abandoned zoo in Griffith Park?

[353] Hell yeah.

[354] And we'll go.

[355] And she bought me a shovel and gloves.

[356] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[357] Absolutely.

[358] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[359] Exactly.

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[375] Goodbye.

[376] Hey, this is exciting.

[377] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[378] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[379] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[380] Who killed Saz?

[381] And were they really after Charles?

[382] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[383] This season, murder hits close to home.

[384] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[385] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[386] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries, and twists arise.

[387] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[388] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[389] Only Martyrs in the building premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[390] Goodbye.

[391] All right, well, what's your real one if that was your fake one?

[392] Okay, so then I changed it to a kind of one that everyone knows and loves, but this is going to be my favorite.

[393] favorite, and, like, I think the most realistic answer, too.

[394] Okay.

[395] Your favorite unsolved murder?

[396] My favorite unsolved murder is the Black Dahlia.

[397] Yes.

[398] Oh, my God.

[399] She was in my top three.

[400] Was she?

[401] Yeah.

[402] It was the other one that you didn't do.

[403] Well, John Bonae, but I knew we already discussed her at length.

[404] John Bonae is the one that I want to know the answer the most.

[405] Yeah.

[406] And then the Black Dahlia's second.

[407] That reminds me. So there was a conversation about John Bonae in the Facebook group.

[408] It's called my favorite.

[409] murder everyone join it.

[410] Hi.

[411] And someone brought a really good point up where they, you know, the really weird, the piece of that puzzle that doesn't, that doesn't make everything else fit is that there was a foreign DNA in her underwear.

[412] And someone brought up the fact that there was some kind of like, you know, Reddit conversation where maybe that came from the manufacturer of those underwear.

[413] Huh.

[414] Like, I think they did some testing on other underwear from the same place in China.

[415] And maybe that's where the DNA is.

[416] Maybe it has nothing to do with murder.

[417] That would be an interesting thing.

[418] But that must have come up before.

[419] Like underwear is usually what they test.

[420] I've never heard of DNA in those.

[421] You've never heard of foreign.

[422] That theory.

[423] Oh, no, I never have.

[424] But wouldn't you think that they would have, they would rule that out?

[425] I don't know.

[426] But I don't know.

[427] I feel like there's so much bias in that case that it maybe wouldn't have crossed anyone's mind.

[428] maybe it also, but it also opens that door to the whole sex ring, you know, thing that like, it might not have had anything to do with what happened that night.

[429] Totally.

[430] But something bad was already happening to her anyway.

[431] Yeah.

[432] Well, I would, I would call that like outlandish, except that she was a beauty queen.

[433] I know.

[434] It's like so fucked up.

[435] Yeah.

[436] That whole world.

[437] I just saw a picture of her today looking at my thing.

[438] And yeah.

[439] If anyone knows the answer, tell us.

[440] We won't tell anyone that you told us.

[441] Yeah.

[442] We just want to know.

[443] Yeah.

[444] If you killed Jambene...

[445] Just email us.

[446] Think of a fake email address.

[447] Real quick, yeah.

[448] Called Jambonais killer.

[449] Just sign up for a hotmail real quick.

[450] Hotmail's fine.

[451] Can't trace that.

[452] Here's what I did.

[453] Here's why I did it.

[454] Super sorry.

[455] Yeah.

[456] Oops.

[457] Okay.

[458] So, all right.

[459] So everyone knows the story of Elizabeth Smart.

[460] Short.

[461] Where am I?

[462] Elizabeth Short, the Black Dahlia.

[463] She was found in a vacant lot in Los Angeles, 39th in Norton, if anyone is in L .A. and wants to go find it because of a house or school there now.

[464] She was naked, cut in half.

[465] She was severely mutilated, posed in the grass.

[466] She had no blood left on her.

[467] And, of course, the detective said it looked like a medical man. They said that a man with a vast medical knowledge had mutilated her.

[468] And so, okay.

[469] Recently, I watched the James Elroy documentary about, it's called Feast of Death.

[470] It's basically a bunch of men sitting around a table, eating dinner, talking about murder and death, all men, because why would a woman know anything?

[471] Well, like, if there's no women, they can really be themselves.

[472] Right.

[473] Okay, so I found that psychologist Alicia Levere was a Harold Express writer, and she did a series of columns, profile.

[474] the whole case.

[475] And she profiled, she identified the person as a possible older woman who had either committed the crime or inspired the person who killed her.

[476] And all these reasons, it was like a psychological profile of why it could be a woman.

[477] Is that person you were talking about that wrote those columns from back then or now?

[478] She, it was from back then.

[479] Okay.

[480] And then John E. Douglas, he retired.

[481] There's a thing called the FBI behavioral.

[482] analysis unit, which like, I'll intern.

[483] Like, you don't have to pay me. Yes.

[484] You know.

[485] Where they find, where they're sitting there going, it's a single man between 30 and 35.

[486] Kate's his mom.

[487] Yeah.

[488] That kind of thing.

[489] Love it.

[490] Love it.

[491] He probably works at this job or that job.

[492] Yeah.

[493] Awesome.

[494] So he created a profile that kind of backed up her theory.

[495] That could have been an older woman who would have done this or inspired it.

[496] Okay.

[497] And then finally, researcher Harry, I'm sorry, Larry Harnish had a theory that and he had written an article in the LA Times on the 50th anniversary and he uncovered a connection between the dump site on 39th in Norton Street and one of the suspects who's now a suspect and I think this is what James Alroy's thing was about that there was a 67 year old doctor have you heard this theory before I think well tell me about it 67 year old doctor named Walter Alonzo Bailey he used to used to live in his estranged wife currently lived one block away from the dump site.

[498] Whoa.

[499] That's like interesting.

[500] What's more interesting is that Bailey's daughter, adopted daughter, was friends with Elizabeth's shorts.

[501] Why do I keep wanting to say Elizabeth Smart?

[502] Because Elizabeth Smart's that girl that got kidnapped.

[503] Yeah.

[504] Elizabeth Short's sister.

[505] So Bailey's, seven -year -old doctor's daughter.

[506] They were so close that the daughter was a witness in Elizabeth Shorts' wedding.

[507] But there's no evidence that they ever met, but you're kind of like they had to know of each other.

[508] Okay.

[509] So he was a strange woman's wife who lived a block away.

[510] He left his wife for a mistress named Alexandria Parteka, who was also a doctor.

[511] And after Bailey's death in 1948, again, So the murder took place in 1947.

[512] It came out that, so he left, he left this mistress all his money.

[513] And the strange wife said it was because he had, quote, terrible secrets that could have ruined him.

[514] Oh.

[515] And people are guessing that maybe he was, he gave secret abortions, which were illegal at the time.

[516] And there was another theory a long time ago that a doctor who gave abortions had accidentally killed Elizabeth Short perhaps.

[517] And that's where the murder had, you know, that's why he had to get rid of her body and not reported is that he was getting abortions, which were illegal.

[518] But there's no evidence to support that she was ever pregnant, so we don't know that for sure.

[519] But we do know that Elizabeth Short used to tell men, maybe for sympathy, that she had a son who had died.

[520] And it turns out that Bailey did have a son who had died.

[521] And he died years earlier, but it was January 13th.

[522] And her body was found on the 15th.

[523] So, I mean, pure speculation clearly, but she's pleading with him to help her with whatever it is.

[524] This person that her sister knows, her sister doesn't live in town, she doesn't have anyone else who lives in town, goes to the doctor of her sister's friend, or father of a sister's friend.

[525] And then if it was a woman, then maybe, maybe she got jealous and killed this girl, killed Elizabetha short, maybe, I don't know, you know what I mean?

[526] Yeah.

[527] Okay.

[528] Let's see.

[529] And so, so he was 60.

[530] he when he died they found a degenerative brain disease he had and it was known to produce violent behavior in otherwise passive individuals and then one of the things was like well how would he have moved her body well the body was fucking sliced in half yeah maybe the body was sliced in half for an older man or a woman to be able to move to carry one piece at a time yeah why was a drained of blood.

[531] Who knows?

[532] So, I mean, there's little pieces of it that I really, really love.

[533] Feast of Death is on, I think it's on Amazon, it's definitely on YouTube.

[534] There's a little, you know, fucking James Elroy is like...

[535] He's a bit of drama queen.

[536] Yeah, he's too, he's too dramatic for his own good.

[537] Well, he has his thing with his own mother, which is amazing.

[538] Like, it's amazing he can talk about it.

[539] Totally.

[540] But then it does add this, he's very intense.

[541] It's very intense.

[542] So you kind of like, it's already an intense subject.

[543] Yeah.

[544] So his mom got kidnapped and did they find her body or did they never find her?

[545] I think they did find it.

[546] Oh, she was on the side of the road.

[547] Yeah.

[548] And they think, who knows what the murderer was never found.

[549] Yeah.

[550] So he's clearly, and he was a little kid when this happened, he's psychologically fucked up from it.

[551] I've read a lot of his books up into a point where they like got too silly.

[552] Right.

[553] Where like the vernacular was just too.

[554] like beat poet but before that I fucking loved his books and I read all of them they're great but this I mean it's still a good this is a good program to watch by yourself at night I remember watching something and I this is bad to bring up especially for our research heads but there was something I was reading and it was the theory and maybe this was a dramatized version but it was like the theory that they took her to a place to murder her and torture her because clearly she was tortured.

[555] What I read, when I was looking to see if I was going to do the Black Talia, one of the things I read really quickly was that she died from an injury to the head, but also those cuts on her face because she had a smile cut into her face.

[556] Ear to ear.

[557] And the bleeding out, blood loss from those cuts.

[558] Could kill you?

[559] Yeah.

[560] So she, like, just because it was so much bleeding.

[561] Wow.

[562] So she was somewhere for an extended period of time.

[563] just bleeding and being tortured.

[564] Yeah, because head injuries bleed a lot.

[565] Yeah, I think so.

[566] But then, but also like, you know, cutting into your cheeks.

[567] I mean, that thing.

[568] And also just to find that.

[569] Yeah.

[570] When I, I remember first, very first reading that story, and it's that picture of her upper body in the, you know, in the grass.

[571] The angles of those are so disturbing.

[572] It's so disturbing.

[573] And to think, because wasn't it a mother and a child?

[574] Yeah, it was a mom, I think, with a stroller.

[575] walking up on that thing.

[576] Yep.

[577] And they thought it was a mannequin.

[578] Yeah.

[579] And like there's a photo of it of the scene with her body covered with, just her body covered with a blanket.

[580] And it's like so obvious that the bottom part of her body is too long to be part.

[581] You know what I mean?

[582] It's like they're not, something isn't right with the length of her body.

[583] And it's because her fucking torso, her lower body is like, and did you see, I'd never seen really the cut really well until today.

[584] Yeah.

[585] It's pretty exact.

[586] Yes.

[587] Yeah.

[588] And I think, I wonder if, like, cops today would immediately assume it was like a doctor or medical man that didn't because, because I guess these days people can do much more and not have any training.

[589] Well, you have to think of, like, a butcher could do that.

[590] Like, a barber could probably cut like that with a straight razor pretty well.

[591] Like, I think there's a lot of professions that could do that, not necessarily.

[592] But could they.

[593] lead someone that well.

[594] A butcher could.

[595] A butcher could.

[596] Can I tell you that one of my grandfathers was a butcher in L .A. And one of my grandfathers was a barber in L .A. So it's probably one of them during that time.

[597] And there's also, there's a guy that thinks his father did it.

[598] Yeah, that guy.

[599] And so that's the thing is that James Elroy backed his story too.

[600] And now isn't.

[601] Which, you know, that house is just down the street from here.

[602] Really?

[603] So this guy, this guy found photographs in his like evil fucked up father's possessions after he died.

[604] And one of them was a photo of what he thought was the Black Delia.

[605] If you look at it, it's clearly not.

[606] It's not her.

[607] I mean, but it's their similarities.

[608] And then, so that this house that he had lived in then, which is in Los Felis, there's a gorgeous Art Deco house.

[609] It's incredible.

[610] Had a secret room where this, this father guy would actually give abortions.

[611] Oh.

[612] And they had put, he had like hired someone to bring cadaver dogs in when he was like, investigating it, and they honed in on that area.

[613] But this guy's a little full of shit.

[614] I think he thinks his dad is also the Zodiac killer.

[615] And, like, he's since gone on to be so incredible.

[616] But, however, the father did rape his daughter, as did he, like, let other people do it.

[617] She took him to court, and he got exonerated.

[618] So he's a piece of shit either way.

[619] His guy isn't wrong about his dad being terrible.

[620] Well, and it's probably very easy.

[621] for him to see and connect, you know, connect us to things when it's like, and it would probably be very vindicating to be like, he didn't just screw up our family.

[622] He's, he's what everyone fears.

[623] Yeah, see what I said.

[624] Everyone, yeah, he's a monster.

[625] But also, I think it's, I think that's whole story is fascinating because everybody talks about like, oh, come to Hollywood, take the bus from Iowa and find your dreams.

[626] And it's that, see the underside this very real, like, and here's the other thing that happens.

[627] Women are exploited constantly and you get into a system of being beautiful and hoping that men, you know, you're appealing to men and then men will give you money and all these things that it like that the culture kind of, you know, encourages or supports.

[628] And but then if you get into that, you're the one that gets punished for it.

[629] And maybe you deserve to die.

[630] And like, you know, she wasn't a prostitute, which is what they said in the beginning.

[631] She absolutely wasn't.

[632] Right.

[633] But she did go out with a lot of men because she didn't, she would go out with them to eat because she didn't have enough money for dinner.

[634] Like that's what, you know, that's what it's like when you come to L .A. to be an actress really.

[635] So that's not prostitution, but it's like, do you, it's the thing of like, do you live the kind of lifestyle that would put you at risk?

[636] And that's, that's one of them.

[637] And if you do, then it's your own fault for eventually happening upon someone.

[638] I also didn't know that her luggage, she had.

[639] Her luggage had been checked at the Biltmore Hotel.

[640] Oh, really?

[641] And she's missing for five days.

[642] Like, there's no, there's no, the last trace of her that anyone can confirm is on January 9th.

[643] And her body isn't discovered until the 15th.

[644] So her getting kidnapped would make sense.

[645] That's so creepy.

[646] That's my favorite unsolved murder.

[647] Unsolved murder.

[648] And isn't there a movie with Josh Hartnett and like Scarjo?

[649] It's based on James Elroy's book The Black Dahlia which is a really good book The movie was stupid but I liked the book a lot Yeah So go read that So Karen Hi What's a question Well mine is also It takes place in Los Angeles I'm gonna settle in It's cozy first story I went on a real roller coaster A ride with this one Because there's Of course When you look at anything you know, like, I know what I had known about it.

[650] But I swear to God, this second, you go on to Reddit.

[651] Oh, Reddit.

[652] There's just a world of people who have already done so much research.

[653] I love you guys.

[654] Who are obsessed.

[655] I forgot to credit where I got a lot of this.

[656] Oh, yeah, you go ahead.

[657] Can I do it real quick?

[658] Deranged L .A .crimes .com, which is like, that's the best fucking.

[659] Deranged L .A .crimes .com.

[660] Made me think of that because of Reddit, which is like deranged and I love it.

[661] Yes.

[662] Okay.

[663] Sorry.

[664] No, so, wait, that's a good website to go to for stuff like.

[665] It seems like it's a fun, like, blog.

[666] Yeah.

[667] Oh, okay, cool.

[668] Yeah, no, this is, I just, I had my assumptions and I was kind of writing what I thought was going on.

[669] And then a link led me to Reddit.

[670] And then it's just all these people are like, I already looked at that and da -da -da.

[671] And it's just theory.

[672] And here's why it couldn't be this.

[673] And here's, yeah.

[674] It's fascinating.

[675] So, this is the story of Elisa Lam.

[676] And she is the one who, she is the 21 -year -old Canadian students who took a, trip to, she called it her West Coast tour.

[677] She had been in San Diego.

[678] She was stopping over in L .A. before she was going up north.

[679] And she checked in at the Cecil Hotel, which is a hotel downtown near Skid Row that used to be fancy.

[680] So she checks into this Cecil Hotel.

[681] And so she is traveling by herself.

[682] And And so she checked in with her family every day.

[683] And so the last day that the day she disappeared, basically, she had gone to the last bookstore and had a conversation with somebody there talking about books.

[684] She was bringing home, hoping they could fit in her suitcase.

[685] So basically when the cops talked to that person, it was like no one thought that she wanted to commit suicide or it wasn't anything like that.

[686] And she was supposed to check out on February 1st, and she never did.

[687] And so her family calls LAPD on February 1st and says, we haven't heard from her in days.

[688] There's something very wrong.

[689] You have to check this out.

[690] So they start looking into it.

[691] And on February 6th, they have a press conference where they say, if you've seen this person and they release, or no, they have basically show pictures.

[692] and they say, if you've seen this person, let us know she's missing.

[693] And then on February 14th, they end up releasing this now very famous footage of her in the elevator at the Cecil Hotel.

[694] Now, this is what I remember because I saw this real time.

[695] And this footage was all in the news.

[696] I wasn't even, I think the sound was down and there's nothing creepier.

[697] There's no sound?

[698] Oh, because you were just watching it.

[699] I was watching news, but there is no sound anyway.

[700] because it's like closed circuit.

[701] I see.

[702] So you look up and this thing is happening.

[703] And this is on and it's like, have you seen this girl?

[704] And this is the last known footage of her.

[705] Oh my God.

[706] And she is in this elevator and she looks, she looks like she's, it's halfway somewhere between her playing hide and seek with somebody and her running from somebody because she's, she gets in the elevator, she presses all the button, she puts her back up against the wall, then she peeks out, then she jumps out, then she does a little thing, then she comes back in.

[707] It's playful and it's not, it's, yeah, go on.

[708] Yeah, it's just hard to, when it's presented on the news, it's freaky.

[709] Because it looks like someone's chasing her and she's trying to get the elevator to go.

[710] Totally.

[711] It's chilling.

[712] And then it already looks like a Japanese horror movie without the rest of the story.

[713] Exactly.

[714] We've seen this movie before.

[715] Yes, dark waters.

[716] So then, yes, exactly.

[717] So then five days later, after they were, they, um, released that footage, they had been the people working in the CISO Hotel had been getting complaints from everybody that was staying there.

[718] This is the most fact.

[719] That the water smelled weird and had a weird color and that the water pressure was really low.

[720] So a maintenance worker goes up onto the roof and checks the water cisterns that are on the roof and Eliza Lamb's dead body is floating in one of the cisterns.

[721] Elisa.

[722] What's sorry?

[723] Elisa.

[724] Yeah.

[725] Is it Elisa or Lisa?

[726] Elisa.

[727] Okay.

[728] Did I say Eliza?

[729] I did, but I said Elizabeth smart.

[730] So clearly we're going to get yelled at by fucking so many people.

[731] We mean well.

[732] It's Elisa Lam.

[733] So it turns out, so as the cops are trying to put this story together, one of the first things that they learned was she was bipolar.

[734] And she was on like four different medications for her bipolar.

[735] So the tape from the elevator immediately puts into everybody's mind.

[736] She's being chased.

[737] She's being pursued.

[738] She's scared.

[739] She's freaking out because it's so weird.

[740] Well, then you find out that she's bipolar and she's on this medicine.

[741] And the day that she disappeared, she had been staying in a youth hostel style shared room.

[742] And she got moved out of that room and into her own room because the other women staying in that room with her were complaining of her odd behavior.

[743] I didn't know that part.

[744] Yeah.

[745] So she got moved into a private room because of odd behavior.

[746] So there's a theory that she stopped taking some of her medication, but she kept taking others, and she was taking pseudofed.

[747] And that combination, like there's some antidepressants or mood stabilizers.

[748] If you mess around with the levels and add in like pseudofed, you can have a psychotic break.

[749] So there's people who think that that is what happened.

[750] that she basically was having a psychotic break was seeing, you know, because you can have auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, and she basically got herself up onto the roof having all that happened in a manic episode, you have all the synergy, you don't stop moving, and it would make sense if she was messing around the elevator.

[751] So that's one very strong theory.

[752] On Reddit, there's a person who absolutely is like this case is closed.

[753] Yeah.

[754] Because the coroner said that the death was drowning with this special circumstance of bipolar.

[755] polar like being the reason.

[756] Yeah.

[757] But the thing is, um, the way she's acting in that elevator, you can only see one angle, which is inside the elevator and a little bit of the hallway.

[758] But when she turns, one time she jumps out, and this is like two minutes or more, it looks like she's talking to somebody up the hallway.

[759] And she's not in the lobby.

[760] Sorry, I'm dying of consumption.

[761] Um, she's actually on the 14th floor of this hotel.

[762] Now, as we all know, the 14th floor is the 13th floor.

[763] Oh, Jesus.

[764] They just change it.

[765] Yeah.

[766] And the Cecil Hotel also is a hotel that over the years has had so many jumper suicides that they stopped counting.

[767] Over 100.

[768] Jesus.

[769] People have jumped off of the Cecil Hotel.

[770] The 14th floor is also the top floor.

[771] So it's basically a 13th floor.

[772] floor hotel.

[773] And it's the hotel where Richard Ramirez, the night stalker, stayed in the middle of his killing spree in between San Francisco and L .A. He stayed there for a little while.

[774] So it's a nice little cozy little.

[775] A nice little place.

[776] Family hotel.

[777] And there was another serial killer who was Austrian who stayed there for a little while in the 90s.

[778] So yeah, there's bad, bad vibes and bad juju.

[779] And also until they were saying there were theories that she had to be with somebody because there was a lock there was no access to the roof and it was alarmed so people would have known if she had gone up there but then there's footage and this is why I love Reddit because it's like so thoroughly research there's a Chinese tourist who posted footage where he walks from the 14th floor up to the roof up to the cisterns and there's no along There's no lock.

[780] There's no anything.

[781] I feel like that had to be for the hotel to not be liable.

[782] They said that.

[783] Exactly right.

[784] Yeah, because the parents were suing the hotel.

[785] But just the weird thing is, I mean, like, so there's lots of people on Reddit who are saying, you know, like, that they had had manic episodes.

[786] And when you, when you're there, you get these ideas in your head and you have a lot of, you know, you have a lot of energy and strength.

[787] And you, you know, you don't think, obviously, it's.

[788] it's, you know, it's mania.

[789] So it made a lot of sense to them that she would, like, suddenly see those sisters and be like, I'm going to get in there and swim around or whatever idea that she may have had.

[790] Plus, I think, like, I think just because there's something as alarmed doesn't mean that whoever turns off the alarm or notices it is going to then go check and make sure everything's okay.

[791] Like those are, you know, in a fucking shitty hotel where it's probably understaffed, the alarm goes off, person in the lobby does a thing to turn it off, and that's it.

[792] Right.

[793] But more likely, that's where, because they were saying that's where a lot of people went, like, employees went up to smoke, that there was no alarm in the first place.

[794] I bet even if there was, there was a prop opening the door, like holding the door open for people who smoked.

[795] Sure.

[796] The other thing is, when you see these cisterns, it's like, it's not like how I first imagined it, which is like one of those big wooden ones you see in New York on roofs.

[797] It's four metal, like, 10 foot tall containers that are like, they almost look like, um, they look like something from, from the war, whatever, where they, they almost look like big bullets.

[798] Yeah.

[799] So the idea that you would look at that and be like, I'm going to get into that.

[800] There's water in there.

[801] Like, that's weird to me. Yeah.

[802] You wouldn't look at it and be like, I'm going to go swimming.

[803] It just looks like a big, it's a bunch of tanks.

[804] You wouldn't know what was in there.

[805] Yeah.

[806] Unless you had knowledge of that somehow.

[807] So there's, to me, all the things like taking everything into account, my own theory.

[808] Because immediately, when I first heard it, I was like, oh, that's, you know, there's, there's Foulnature.

[809] Supernatural.

[810] Supernatural, maybe, probably not.

[811] I mean, I do love the idea.

[812] It's like, it's basically a death hotel.

[813] But then definitely foul play.

[814] Yes, for sure.

[815] But going up there, like the idea that she would have the idea.

[816] Anyway, my theory is that I just don't.

[817] Oh, she got in.

[818] But then when they removed the body, they had to cut part of the top off.

[819] to get her out.

[820] So, which doesn't add to anything necessarily one or the other.

[821] I just think, I just think there's foul play only because I just think, because if somebody is having, like is off their meds or has a thing, I think that it's like a wounded animal in the forest.

[822] It doesn't, that doesn't mean that people are going to be nicer to you or take care of you.

[823] I think that means that if there's people around that would be...

[824] Yeah.

[825] I'm sorry.

[826] What?

[827] Sorry.

[828] Oh my God.

[829] I'm sorry.

[830] You just got so mad at me. I was looking for a thing that I had seen on that at Google.

[831] No, that's fine.

[832] I'm just trying to say, if there's people around that would harm you, that that would actually be an attractor.

[833] If there's somebody acting weird, being weird, and then you're also in this murdery residential hotel.

[834] where there are poor people that live there.

[835] Yeah, it's a really bad neighborhood, too.

[836] It's not like it's a hotel, like down, you know, anywhere in L .A. This is, it's like a, literally a block from Skid Row.

[837] Yes.

[838] It's in the worst part of L .A. That you could be in.

[839] Even the walk to the last bookstore is sketchy.

[840] Yeah.

[841] From that hotel.

[842] Yeah, you don't, I mean, everything about the surrounding area is dangerous.

[843] If you're acting weird and you're kind of sending up those vibes, it's just, it's a, it's a bad situation.

[844] So, yes, she could have, like, the mania, there's a lot of people who felt very strongly of like, this is exactly what happened.

[845] But also, it's just such a perfect thing of like, oh, well, it's just this girl by herself who suddenly is like, not okay.

[846] That's the second somebody notices that all they have to do is look out their hotel room people and be like, oh, I'm going to go see if this girl wants to go take a walk on the roof.

[847] One thing I thought was interesting that I found on Reddit was that.

[848] She, in the video, she's wearing someone's shorts.

[849] Did you see that?

[850] Yes.

[851] Someone was like those, it looks like she's wearing a skirt, but they're clearly like board shorts or like cargo shorts.

[852] And they clearly weren't hers or what the kind of clothes she wore because she was like a fashion blogger and really into fashion.

[853] Oh.

[854] And did they find her clothes outside of the tank?

[855] No, but she was naked in the tank, but everything it was in there was with her in the tank.

[856] So I guess, I mean, who knows, that could have been explained.

[857] Maybe she stole them from the hostel she was at.

[858] But the shorts that she has on in the video are a guy's shorts.

[859] Yeah.

[860] So, yeah, maybe she met someone staying at the hotel also.

[861] And fuck.

[862] I know.

[863] And there's definitely no drugs in her system.

[864] No drugs in her system.

[865] And yeah.

[866] And, yeah, and all the things that would explain that, like, alcohol drugs.

[867] She went to a bar that night.

[868] But all the things that people, all the theories of people saying maybe someone drugged her.

[869] That's why she was acting so weird.

[870] It doesn't.

[871] They're not in her system.

[872] Yeah, they would have clearly done tests for that.

[873] And here's the really irritating part.

[874] They took a rape kit, but they never processed it.

[875] What?

[876] Because they just figured what's the point since we know it's she did it, basically.

[877] So kind of never know.

[878] It's a little bit the perfect murder in that way if that's what happened.

[879] Because she's in the water.

[880] There will be no evidence on her body.

[881] And did it, can they tell exactly how long she was in there?

[882] Was she in there from the night of the video?

[883] Yeah, until they found her.

[884] She was in there for like three weeks.

[885] So you probably can't find a ton of evidence after a body's been in the water that long.

[886] No. I'm really sorry.

[887] I was looking up this thing that I wanted to tell you while you were telling the story that there was some tuberculosis drug.

[888] Did you see that?

[889] What is it that is the same as her initials?

[890] It's the, it's called the lamb elizabeth.

[891] a test.

[892] Right, at least.

[893] Lisa, E -L -I -S -A.

[894] It's an S, not a Z. That there was an outbreak of tuberculosis on Skid Row.

[895] Yeah.

[896] That's just a weird coincidence.

[897] It's just like the weirdest coincidence I've ever heard of in my life.

[898] That there was a test or something called the Lamb Elisa.

[899] Yeah.

[900] It's just her name.

[901] It's her fucking name.

[902] Yeah.

[903] What in the fuck is this world?

[904] There's a couple of other alleyways that I'm not going to go down.

[905] now because I don't know them well enough.

[906] But all you have to do is go on to Reddit or go on to YouTube.

[907] And people have like talked through all of them that are like there's about like invisible cloaking and like all this different stuff.

[908] Just theories.

[909] Do you ever, did you, I watched the video with my face so close to the screen to like try to see any abnormalities or anything weird.

[910] Well, but here's what is interesting that the, uh, The numbers on the tape, whatever that's called, the time code on the tape is distorted.

[911] And they don't know if the cops distorted it or the hotel distorted it.

[912] But there is a full minute missing in the tape.

[913] What the fuck.

[914] People have studied the like messed up time code enough to see when it clicks over to another minute, but like whatever.

[915] So it's this, the tape itself is really, really weird.

[916] You know what?

[917] Another thing about the tape being weird that I thought was really interesting was that she's pressing all the buttons and the elevator never leaves or closes the door.

[918] Because she's pressing the elevator hold button.

[919] Oh, she is.

[920] Which people have gone there and tested it.

[921] It will hold it open for two minutes.

[922] So she presses, she's on 14.

[923] So she presses 14, 10, 7, 4 or whatever.

[924] She goes right down the center and elevator hold.

[925] So you can't figure out if she's playing a game if she's trying to get out of there as quickly as possible.

[926] Some people say that's what you're supposed to.

[927] to do if you're afraid somebody's following you.

[928] Oh, because then they won't know what floor you get on.

[929] They don't know where a floor you're on and every, it'll open every time so you'll have every chance of seeing somebody else.

[930] I've never heard that.

[931] Yeah.

[932] That is fucked up.

[933] And the other thing is they sped, they slowed the tape down when they released it to the public.

[934] It's actually 125 % slower than it should have been.

[935] So when you speed it up, I don't know.

[936] It looks creepier when she does like the hands.

[937] hand movements and stuff.

[938] And they don't know if it's just to make, get people's attention or to make it look weirder than it is or what?

[939] Or maybe like if there's some splicing in it, you wouldn't notice it as much if it were slower.

[940] Exactly.

[941] If there's a minute missing, then you wouldn't notice it.

[942] Right.

[943] Just like, okay.

[944] You're, do you think that she looks scared or that she's playing a game, like in your heart of hearts?

[945] Well, yeah.

[946] I think, I also read, my initial reaction was fear only because she does that thing where she puts her back up against the wall.

[947] But then there was a website that's like based on body language breaks down where she's very calm.

[948] Her, like her body is relaxed and everything she's doing is playful and relaxed and looks like there's a lot of flirting body language within the movements.

[949] Or that she's playing with a kid, like almost like, to me it was like she's playing.

[950] with a little kid.

[951] Yeah.

[952] And trying to amuse a child.

[953] It's very childlike.

[954] Although there is one part where they specifically say this is like flirting, this is definitely a flirting movement of like, she puts her hands up and, but then she like reveals her armpits.

[955] And it's like a whole thing that's very, it's like sexual preening.

[956] Oh my goodness.

[957] That's what they call it.

[958] And it's the, and she's looking up the hallway.

[959] So it's exactly where you can't see the person.

[960] Is she looking where the door to the water tower is?

[961] Or is she looking the other way, I wonder.

[962] I don't know.

[963] That would be good to like go and stand there and look at it.

[964] But I think in the Chinese guys, I mean, it literally is all in Chinese.

[965] I have no idea what he's actually saying.

[966] But when he does it, he just walks you out the elevator and up.

[967] So it looks like there's another, you have to walk up more stairs to get up to that exit.

[968] There's like a floor that the elevator doesn't go up to.

[969] Right.

[970] Interesting.

[971] Yeah.

[972] It's not like right there.

[973] I mean, those places are never locked and they never have fucking alarms.

[974] To me, I think ultimately there is a good theory.

[975] with the messed up videotape is so overt and it's so weird.

[976] And like, why would you, why is it edited?

[977] Why is it slow down?

[978] What's happening?

[979] Why can't we see what's in that other minute?

[980] They tacked on just the elevator opening and closing at the end to nothing.

[981] So they left on footage that no one needs at all.

[982] But then they took out a minute in the middle.

[983] That doesn't make sense.

[984] Do you think that's one of those things that they do or it's like they take something out that only, the person involved would know in case there's ever any any person comes forward with information and it can be like well I mean maybe she threw something or maybe she like maybe you know she did an extra thing that only the person she was doing it to or with would know maybe but then why why not just use 15 seconds like why yeah it's it's it's being sold or presented as if it's continuous and that's what's weird oh right like something else something the thing is going to happen.

[985] Yes.

[986] And to me, it just adds up to, or to me, it points a finger.

[987] I believe it could have been a manic episode where she just found herself up there.

[988] And that's definitely possible.

[989] But it doesn't seem that probable.

[990] To me, it seems probable that there's another person involved and that that person works at the hotel.

[991] Totally.

[992] So he doesn't have to be around her at any point during the day, but he sees her at that one point in night and does something and then puts her body where no one would find it.

[993] Oh, okay.

[994] So, yeah.

[995] Possibly.

[996] I get it.

[997] Or lures her in there.

[998] Was she able to get out on her own when she got in there?

[999] Maybe lured her in there and then she couldn't get out.

[1000] So she did drown technically, but it's foul play.

[1001] Well, but it's like he would, like he would already be in it, you mean?

[1002] No, or have been like, let's go swimming in here.

[1003] Oh, like it was his idea.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] Yes, possibly.

[1006] But then why would she throw all her stuff in there?

[1007] Oh, God.

[1008] Like, why wouldn't, if it's like a skinny dipping thing, just leave it.

[1009] So all of her shit was just in there.

[1010] In there with her.

[1011] Yeah, I don't know.

[1012] Maybe he threw it in after her back and close the door and later.

[1013] Could have been that.

[1014] And also could have been, if it was her idea by herself to go in because she wanted to be in water.

[1015] Once she's in there, it's hard to tread water with clothes on.

[1016] Take your clothes off.

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] I just saw this thing about this woman.

[1019] I think it was in Japan where she fucking got locked.

[1020] in an elevator for 30 days and starved to death.

[1021] No. Yeah, like, they went away on a Christmas vacation or whatever the fuck, and they were supposed to check the elevators and make sure no one was in there and they didn't.

[1022] And, like, there was a woman fucking, like, that's the thought of being in a water tank.

[1023] Oh, yeah.

[1024] Like, I wish I'd again right now.

[1025] I just kill myself.

[1026] Do you think all the electricity was off?

[1027] I think they, like, you know, when you turn it off, you turn off the elevator shafts to stop working.

[1028] So she was just in a black box for 30 days?

[1029] Who knows when she died?

[1030] But when you die of starvation, so probably...

[1031] Oh, that's pretty quick, actually.

[1032] Is it like seven days?

[1033] Yeah.

[1034] That's a fucking long time.

[1035] It's a little.

[1036] That's a fucking incredible story.

[1037] It's, uh, I want to know what happened.

[1038] I do too.

[1039] Would you rather know Jean -Beney or Lisa Lam?

[1040] Jean -Bene.

[1041] Would you rather know Black Dahlia or Lisa Lam?

[1042] Jean -Beney.

[1043] Yeah, me too.

[1044] Also, Black Dolly, I feel like it's going to be disappointing because back then you could kill people much easier.

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] Like, and also I think if this, if Elisa's story is that it was just this manic episode and she just lost her shit.

[1047] It's just the total tragedy.

[1048] And I'm only in it for the like, what?

[1049] Yeah.

[1050] I'm in it for the like, well, that could never happen to me. And if it's like someone killed her, they're like, well, I can avoid that.

[1051] But if it's like, oh, she's just fine.

[1052] fucking lost it and, like, thought it'd be fun to go.

[1053] Like, I would think that.

[1054] Yeah.

[1055] Before.

[1056] Of course.

[1057] I've gone swimming in stupid places before.

[1058] You want to go up high.

[1059] You're like, oh, I want to see the city.

[1060] I'm like, I'm alone in this big city.

[1061] And this is like my first time away from my family.

[1062] She's also at the really good right page for, for, what's it called?

[1063] The crazy people.

[1064] Schizophrenia?

[1065] Yes.

[1066] Yes.

[1067] That's right.

[1068] That's like around that age.

[1069] So she might have been having some symptoms to begin with.

[1070] Yeah.

[1071] I mean, when I first saw it, I was like bath salts.

[1072] Totally.

[1073] She ate bath salts.

[1074] Oh, yeah.

[1075] She got bath salts on Skid Row and fucking jumped in the tank.

[1076] E. But I doubt it.

[1077] So bad.

[1078] I mean, a lot of people on Reddit were just talking about how carefully you have to be when you have mood stabilizers and like antidepressants and all this stuff.

[1079] I didn't know that.

[1080] I'm on both of those.

[1081] Yeah.

[1082] I didn't know that.

[1083] Yeah, you have to be careful.

[1084] Well, just you have to do exactly what the doctor says.

[1085] Okay.

[1086] I don't do that.

[1087] Should we read some favorite?

[1088] you have a recording.

[1089] Oh, that's right.

[1090] I asked my friend Karen Anderson, who does Doug loves food, the Doug Benson Food podcast.

[1091] She's the co -host, a stand -up comedian writer, a friend to all.

[1092] And I asked her, we grew up very close to each other.

[1093] Oh, really?

[1094] She grew up in Nevada, which is the town next to you, Petaluma.

[1095] Man, you guys are right for fucking crimes.

[1096] Yes.

[1097] And apparently she got a good one, so she left me a message today.

[1098] And you haven't heard it either yet.

[1099] I have not heard the first five seconds to make sure recorded.

[1100] Let's see.

[1101] So here it is.

[1102] Karen, this is Karen.

[1103] I'm here to tell you about a murder that took place.

[1104] It took place in 1980 in Nevada, California, sleepy little town.

[1105] You might have heard of it since the next town over from your house.

[1106] It was a terrible thing that had happened.

[1107] My sister's friend had moved to Nevada with her stepdad, you know, in the stepdad's in the picture.

[1108] And in a murder situation, I think, you know, who did it.

[1109] Anyway, her and her sister and her mom, they moved to Nevada, and they were there for two years, and my sister got to know this girl.

[1110] And the dad and the mom got in a big fight, and I guess she said she was going to take the kids away for a while or something.

[1111] and he ended up keeping them hostage in their house for five hours and, you know, threatened to kill everybody.

[1112] But finally, I don't know what happened to set him off, but the mom, he shot at the mom two times.

[1113] She got away.

[1114] She ran away out the back door.

[1115] And then he went up the stairs to the girl's bedroom, and the older girl was holding the littler girl.

[1116] I think they were 14 and 10 holding the younger one.

[1117] And the stepdad killed the, shot the older one in the back in the head a couple times.

[1118] And then I don't know if he tried to shoot the little one.

[1119] And then he shot himself on the stairs.

[1120] They found him on the stairs.

[1121] And the older one died, my sister's friend.

[1122] Jesus.

[1123] And then the little one survived and the mom survived.

[1124] It's from what I remember.

[1125] And anyway, I hope that makes your day.

[1126] All right.

[1127] Wow.

[1128] Oh, man. That 10 -year -old is just fucked.

[1129] That is a horror movie.

[1130] That's like the step -dad horror movie.

[1131] There's so many thoughts that go through my head, mostly for the survivors.

[1132] And the mom's guilt for running.

[1133] Mom's guilt.

[1134] What was she supposed to do?

[1135] Like, she ran to go get help.

[1136] And also she'd been shot at.

[1137] Like, that's a fight or flight.

[1138] That's reptilian brain.

[1139] Yeah.

[1140] Like, he was clearly going to kill her.

[1141] He just, she got lucky.

[1142] But it's like, why did you leave your kids?

[1143] And it's like, oh.

[1144] Oh, my God.

[1145] Well, and also they're upstairs.

[1146] She can't get past him.

[1147] She would have been killed trying to.

[1148] And it's like, what is she going to run up there and lead him to chase after her into the kids' rooms?

[1149] Maybe she was like, if, if I run out of here, he'll come after me and leave the kids alone.

[1150] Yeah.

[1151] probably.

[1152] I mean, or who, I don't think anything.

[1153] You're in shock.

[1154] You don't even know what you're doing.

[1155] Horrible.

[1156] That breaks my heart that the big sister was like trying to protect the little one.

[1157] I know.

[1158] My first thought is like, just kill me too.

[1159] Like I would just want to be killed too.

[1160] Yeah.

[1161] That's awful.

[1162] Well, also, there is that thing too that when people survive things like that.

[1163] I have to say the bad part of me is like, oh, he killed himself on the stairs.

[1164] Good.

[1165] Thank God.

[1166] Oh, for Sure.

[1167] That's what he should have done.

[1168] He should have done it first.

[1169] Because then that fucking 10 year old would be going to parole hearings for the rest of her life, making sure he didn't get out and always be a little bit terrified that he was going to escape or fucking get out or, you know?

[1170] Yeah.

[1171] Him being dead is the best outcome of this story.

[1172] Yeah, for sure.

[1173] Which it's like, do you believe in the death penalty?

[1174] That's such a hard thing to say.

[1175] But I believe in you fucking killing yourself.

[1176] yeah you you do it yourself yeah although then it's like he escapes any kind of punishment I know but God I know the choices I know it turns out life is hard it's difficult and and I think the things that fascinates me is like yeah that was one town over from where I grew up crazy I've never heard that story before it's insane I had no idea that that even happened the fact that that her, she was friends with the, it's friends with, ugh.

[1177] I know.

[1178] It's just like, it's, you're a step away from it.

[1179] Totally.

[1180] Like, what if you had spent the night that night?

[1181] Yeah, exactly.

[1182] What if she spent the night at your house that night?

[1183] Yeah.

[1184] Or what if, I, then I think of like, what if those things have happened where it's like, you just will never know that like you almost died that night.

[1185] But if you haven't spent the night at this person's house, you didn't.

[1186] It's kind of like, there's, that it has a metal detector feel to it of like, what's underneath, what, is possible.

[1187] What's there that I don't know is there?

[1188] Yeah, that's must by why we love metal detectors.

[1189] I wonder if that's a normal thing for people who love true crime is being in a metal detecting.

[1190] Probably, right?

[1191] Right.

[1192] Investigations.

[1193] It's almost, it's like, you know, a minority report where it's like a futuristic idea of like you can know something's going to happen.

[1194] Yeah.

[1195] If you can know that you just missed some crazy shit happening to you.

[1196] Would you want to know?

[1197] I don't think it'd be good for you.

[1198] No, I don't think so either.

[1199] But at the same time, I think about, that's all I think about is, is what's going to happen.

[1200] What did I, what did I miss?

[1201] What, how do I avoid this?

[1202] How do I avoid that?

[1203] So I think about it all the time anyways.

[1204] Yeah.

[1205] And it'd be nice to be like, to have some like, yeah, yeah, you're right.

[1206] So you can be like, okay, good.

[1207] This is why.

[1208] But what if you were so right all the time that you're just like, geez, cars just keep crashing through fucking windows while I'm sitting next to them.

[1209] Do you want to, let's read, like, maybe we'll both read one person's hometown.

[1210] You mean before I die?

[1211] Before you die of disease?

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] So we always have you guys either email us at my favorite murder at Gmail.

[1214] On the Facebook group, we have a Twitter, my fave murder, and you tell us your hometown murders, which we love.

[1215] But this time, we said tell us your favorite unsolved murder.

[1216] Do you like that better?

[1217] Do you like, so you want to do one home town and I'll do one unsolved that's not hometown?

[1218] Or should I look for a?

[1219] I think this one that I have is unsolved.

[1220] Okay.

[1221] But I think that's just by chance.

[1222] Okay.

[1223] I think the one I have is just her favorite murder that's unsolved.

[1224] Okay.

[1225] You want to go?

[1226] You want me to go.

[1227] You go.

[1228] Okay.

[1229] So, this girl's name is Lauren.

[1230] We also told you guys we would stop saying your full names.

[1231] Totally.

[1232] Sorry.

[1233] I did not think about that at all.

[1234] I'm like, doesn't everyone want to be fucking louded and famous and shit?

[1235] For real.

[1236] Yeah.

[1237] Just because we're famed horses.

[1238] I mean everyone else is.

[1239] People are like, could I have a little bit of privacy?

[1240] Yeah.

[1241] We talked about your stalker.

[1242] And then we, okay.

[1243] I like, though, that a lot of people have adjusted in like in it, they're signing it like just with their last initial where it's like, oh, thank you.

[1244] You're helping me. Sorry, guys, we won't do that again.

[1245] Yeah, we won't.

[1246] So Lauren S. She says, the one that gets me is the boy in the box.

[1247] Oh, yes.

[1248] In 1957, a boy believed to be about five years old was found on the side of the road wrapped in a blanket inside of a bassinet box having been killed by blunt force trauma.

[1249] Worse way to go.

[1250] He was freshly bathed, fingernails clipped, and his hair was crudely cut.

[1251] He had an old medical -related scars, he had old medical -related scars in addition of fresh bruising and signs of past trauma.

[1252] He appeared to be malnourished.

[1253] No one had ever come forward to claim him or with any plausible explanation of who he may have been.

[1254] He's also known as America's Unknown Child.

[1255] Fucked up, sad shit.

[1256] No, didn't you tell me?

[1257] I thought we talked about it on here that they found DNA evidence to figure out who he was.

[1258] Did I do that when we were...

[1259] It was at the beginning of the show update.

[1260] Right.

[1261] So...

[1262] I just saw this one because I was looking up Unsolved Murders and he came up.

[1263] There was illustrations of what he looked like when he was found in that box.

[1264] I mean, clearly he was either in a foster situation.

[1265] It was in Chicago or...

[1266] Right.

[1267] It was in, I thought it was Baltimore.

[1268] Okay.

[1269] Or Philadelphia.

[1270] Somewhere where you can get just lost in the system.

[1271] But also two different people found him and didn't report it before the final person did.

[1272] The fuck, you guys.

[1273] I think that like a hunter found it and then didn't say anything and then the second person waited a full day.

[1274] Oh my God.

[1275] The thing about him being found in a bassinet box is that makes me think either at a home for children or a foster.

[1276] Yeah, like crowded foster house.

[1277] Crowded.

[1278] Hey, Karen in Georgia.

[1279] First of all, I love a show.

[1280] I love true crime.

[1281] And I wish I had friends like you to talk about it with.

[1282] Well, now you do.

[1283] This is from Alex Age.

[1284] So, okay, so this is a secondhand story.

[1285] My mom told me recently.

[1286] She grew up in the Rochester Spencerport, New York area.

[1287] And she lived there when the three alphabet murders happened.

[1288] Just a little background in phone case you weren't familiar.

[1289] Three young girls were.

[1290] raped and strangled in Rochester, New York, and they all had double initials, and their bodies were all left in towns that started with the same letter as their first and last names.

[1291] What?

[1292] The three girls are, Carmen Cologne, 10, disappeared November 16th, 1971.

[1293] She was found two days later in Riga, New York, near Churchville, 12 miles from where she was last seen.

[1294] Michelle Mianza 11 disappeared November 26, 1973.

[1295] She was found two days later in Macedon, New York, 15 miles from Rochester.

[1296] And Wanda Walkowitz, 11, disappeared April 2nd, 1973.

[1297] She was found the next day at arrest area off of State Route 104 in Webster, New York, seven miles from Rochester.

[1298] These cases were also connected to another set of double initial murders in California.

[1299] One of the victims there was also named Carmen Cologne.

[1300] I don't know much about these in parentheses.

[1301] Same name?

[1302] Yeah.

[1303] There were a few suspects over the years, including Kenneth Bianchi, who was ice cream vendor in Rochester.

[1304] and who later became one of the two Hillside Stranglers.

[1305] Another suspect was Carmen Cologne's uncle.

[1306] My mom was in third grade at Holy Redeemer Catholic School when the first murder in New York happened in 1971 and she was in the same class as the New York Carmen Cologne's younger sister, Angela.

[1307] And she had been at Carmen in Angela's house just a couple weeks before the murder for a birthday party.

[1308] Even if you don't read this on the show, you should totally talk about, Oh, even if you don't read this on your show, you should totally talk about it on your show because it is some really freaky shit.

[1309] You're exactly right, Alex.

[1310] That is nuts.

[1311] I would, Karen, go change your fucking name.

[1312] Karen Kilgareff would have been later days.

[1313] How many people change their name in Rochester around that time?

[1314] Do you think they've had second double?

[1315] Little girls with a double letter.

[1316] Because that meant research.

[1317] That guy was, that was like, do you work at a school?

[1318] Did he work at a, yeah, maybe he was like a, I worked at a school and, you know, and the weird thing is the towns that he left them in.

[1319] Yes.

[1320] That's some fucking OCD shit.

[1321] It's weird and it's, you know what, that is, that is the kind I'm the most interested in is that tricky, hooked in, like, that's that seven kind of stuff where there's theories and whole, there's whole storylines going on that no one even understands or knows about.

[1322] Well, that's what you want them murders to have because then it is so much more interesting than there's just some fucking creepy gross dude doing this.

[1323] And so it's like, okay, here's, we just need to solve this.

[1324] And it's a really smart person doing all these things.

[1325] I mean, it sounds, it sounds like an obsessive thing that maybe the person doing it doesn't even want to be doing it, but feels like a compulsion to do it.

[1326] Yeah.

[1327] You know, like it's like, we know how OCD people are.

[1328] It's like you're setting things right by doing these things over and over and you're like, or you know how sometimes it turns out where it's like their sibling who died, had double the double letters.

[1329] You know what I mean?

[1330] There's some weird, they're acting out something else that had already happened.

[1331] Their mom was abusive and had double letters or, Jesus.

[1332] Double letters.

[1333] Don't do it.

[1334] It's so random.

[1335] It's so random.

[1336] And yet very specific.

[1337] I mean, what if it is, it sounds, I mean, if there was a serial killer, a now known serial killer living in that time, in that area at that time, I mean, it's probably him.

[1338] Bianchi.

[1339] Is it Bianchi?

[1340] I mean, that's a very strange thing that that would happen there.

[1341] Although they did like teenage girls and older.

[1342] Yeah, but maybe these are little kids.

[1343] Separately they did that.

[1344] Maybe it was the other one's inclination.

[1345] Oh, right.

[1346] It was Anthony Bwono's preference to do the older ladies.

[1347] So he went along with it.

[1348] But like, oh, guys.

[1349] Guys, this has been heavy.

[1350] We really want, you know what I want more than anything is not to have any more topics to cover on this.

[1351] podcast.

[1352] Like, I just want this to turn into like a, we start talking about like tea.

[1353] Um, let's never do that.

[1354] Because we run out of murder and talk about, you know what I mean?

[1355] Like, they just stop murdering.

[1356] We're like, have you ever had Moroccan mint?

[1357] Yeah.

[1358] Oh, it's delicious.

[1359] It's great to sip while crime rates go down.

[1360] Crime rates plummet do.

[1361] And the world turns perfect around us.

[1362] I mean, it's a little overpopulated.

[1363] I'll give you that.

[1364] Thank you, President Trump.

[1365] Yeah.

[1366] You've really solved all our problems.

[1367] By locking people up before they can murder people.

[1368] Just getting rid of everybody.

[1369] This was a long one, but I think it's been chock full of fun stuff.

[1370] Probably snips some stuff out in the middle.

[1371] Yeah.

[1372] Where can we find everyone?

[1373] We can find them on our Twitter.

[1374] Oh, yes.

[1375] On Twitter, there's a Facebook group.

[1376] If you go there, you have to ask to join it.

[1377] So don't lose faith.

[1378] You just have to, what do they do?

[1379] Click something?

[1380] Yeah, just say approve, and then I approve them.

[1381] And that's just so you can talk with impunity.

[1382] Oh, right.

[1383] And, you know, it's a private group.

[1384] because we don't want your sister to see that you're in a group called My Favorite Murder.

[1385] Oh, but yeah, but there's nothing to do.

[1386] You just have to ask to be in.

[1387] Yeah, you'll be let in.

[1388] Immediately.

[1389] Yeah, and then there's the Twitter, and then there's My Favorite Murder at Gmail to send us your hometown murders.

[1390] Which we love.

[1391] We love.

[1392] I'll get better so that I'm not dying of emphysema the next time we record.

[1393] It's sexy emphysema.

[1394] Super sexy.

[1395] Thanks for listening, guys.

[1396] Thanks, everybody.

[1397] Don't go in the water tank.

[1398] Bye.