124 - Errant Duct Tape

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] And begin.

[17] Hello, and welcome.

[18] This is my favorite murder.

[19] this is the true crime podcast where we get real serious and then there's a weird fart sound in the background yeah that was like a could you hear that stea yeah oh um it was probably plumbing that really threw me off my game it was you better start up you know my game how tight my game is your pod game my podcast podcast game is usually real tight now when you train to record you use a small rubber ball just for dexterity and just like to throw against the walls.

[20] Throw against the wall and I catch it and like you can tell there's a montage usually where it's like my brain's getting bigger, but the podcast part of my brain is growing.

[21] And what song is playing during that montage would you say?

[22] Dude, I have a tiger.

[23] I have a tiger all day, every day.

[24] It's all that goes to my brain.

[25] It's not the other hit song by that same band.

[26] My brain is swelling and it's causing cranial pressure.

[27] No, it's just clowns laughing.

[28] That song, clowns laughing.

[29] It's just the sound of multiple clowns laughing.

[30] It's pretty soothing.

[31] Is it the kind of clown laughter where there's a raspy wheeze where you can tell that they are also a hobo on a train?

[32] Yeah.

[33] It's like that kind of clown that's got a cigar that looks like it just blew up.

[34] You know, like how to trick blow upy thing in it.

[35] Could like crusty the clown.

[36] Exactly.

[37] Do you know that somebody mentioned, somebody cited this and actually said, and maybe they were just being sarcastic.

[38] But you know how we named one of our episodes?

[39] like breakfast wine or morning wine breakfast wine I think it's from arrested development oh really yeah it's something it's a it's something that the mom says which I'm sure if I said it I stole it from that like that's that's all I do I think I've had breakfast wine before okay it's one of those phrases that are in the lexicon and the vernacular and the vernacular all right well I just think it's funny that people would be giving us credit where it's like you know this show is from eight years ago, right?

[40] No, we said it first, probably.

[41] Same thing with a murderino.

[42] That's from the Simpsons.

[43] That is.

[44] That's how I thought of it.

[45] Just know.

[46] We didn't know that, but now we know.

[47] Now we know.

[48] Now that somebody tried to get the patent on it.

[49] Yeah.

[50] And everyone went, what the fuck are you doing?

[51] So, that went away quick because I think some weird person in Canada, not to say Canadians are weird, but you know you're weird.

[52] You know.

[53] Tried to fucking trademark the word murderino.

[54] Yeah.

[55] And all these fucking people were like, fuck you.

[56] And then they were sending cease and desist letters to people on Etsy who were making fuck.

[57] Like if you and I haven't done it, then that person, whoever the fuck you are.

[58] Yeah, some third party where it's like, sorry, what, where, how are you involved in any of this nonsense?

[59] And then they responded, we're just trying to make sure that it's not abused in any way.

[60] We're trying to keep your job.

[61] Not your business.

[62] It's back off.

[63] Yeah.

[64] And also, also.

[65] And also no, you're not.

[66] yeah also don't lie you tried to make a greedy move yeah you stand by it yeah and be like oh well I tried to make a greedy move here's the thing I'm sending a cease and desist to that person being a fucking cunt the season to assist being a fucking cut let's just start ceasing and assisting people I'm going to send a cease and desist to arrested development for stealing our ideas eight years ago okay and putting them on TV yeah before we even met take that take that I was working at Let's see, eight years ago.

[67] Podcasts didn't exist.

[68] 2010.

[69] No. Where were you working at 2010?

[70] 2010, I believe.

[71] That's the year I decided to up and get a divorce and move to New York.

[72] I was like, should I change my fall look?

[73] You're straight up.

[74] What's her face throwing her hat in the air?

[75] Mary Tyler Moore.

[76] All I had to do was make the gesture and you knew what I was talking about.

[77] Mary Tyler Moore, but the wrong city and she's never married.

[78] But you did throw a hat in the air.

[79] Yes or no?

[80] I threw hats at people.

[81] I'm not a hat person, but I will use one as a weapon.

[82] No, a cloche, a close.

[83] A cloche is the 1920s like little, um, they like kind of flare out the end.

[84] They look like German helmets.

[85] Oh yeah.

[86] A nice little felt cloche.

[87] Have you seen my fucking humongous face?

[88] Dude, I, have you seen my, I can't fit into like hats, into normal lady size hat.

[89] Too small?

[90] Yeah.

[91] I'm my giant head.

[92] No, huge head.

[93] You have a huge head?

[94] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[95] You did, it does not look like it at all.

[96] It's a secret huge head.

[97] Really, you're keeping a great secret over there.

[98] Thank you.

[99] Me, I'm all over the map with this.

[100] I'm telling everybody with my huge head how huge my head is.

[101] Couldn't be bigger.

[102] There's nothing worse than people are like, this is sending me into a spiral of thinking about having to get ready.

[103] Have you ever had to get ready at a friend's house when you were, like, say you guys went to the beach all day.

[104] Yeah.

[105] Then you make a decision at 6 o 'clock, we're going to go dancing.

[106] Can I borrow a dress or something?

[107] Right.

[108] Great.

[109] They give you the ugliest dress they have.

[110] ugly.

[111] Hey, how about this?

[112] Yeah.

[113] It's been laying in the bottom of my closet.

[114] How about this?

[115] Because I know you and I know you're never going to return this to me. So let me give you something I don't care.

[116] I don't care about it.

[117] Yes.

[118] And you won't look better than me. And you won't look better to me. And I don't actually care about your feelings or well -being.

[119] So just put this fucking on and shut up.

[120] I cannot tell you how many times where I'm like, well, I simply won't go to the second location with you then.

[121] That's from 30 Rock.

[122] Yes.

[123] Sight your, site your, always cite.

[124] Footnote.

[125] No, three.

[126] Yeah, like, and just that idea of hats, or it made me think of one time, my friend, I was like, do you have sunglasses?

[127] I was so hung over in my friend's car.

[128] She opens up her glove compartment and pulls out, no joke.

[129] They were checkerboard sunglasses, but they were also big, rounded cat eyes.

[130] So I look like that guitarist from cheap trick.

[131] I looked like a fucking lunatic.

[132] And I was like, can I not be the one?

[133] I don't like attention like this.

[134] It's like raising your hand and being like, I'm hung over to.

[135] everyone who walks by.

[136] I'm hung over and I might be able to sell you ecstasy if you ask me with the right code word.

[137] That'd be nice.

[138] All right.

[139] Luckily we got that offer.

[140] I'm glad we talked about that.

[141] You were saying you haven't watched any true crime shit.

[142] No, I've been deep into things like Howard's End, which if you haven't seen it and you like a period piece they made it for stars, I believe.

[143] And it was with the best Mr. Darcy, Matthew McFadden and a woman who you've seen in a million things, but I don't know her name.

[144] I'm sorry.

[145] And it was so good.

[146] It was so brilliantly done.

[147] It's better than the movie, which was with Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson.

[148] Well, I can't believe you haven't seen this because I think I slipped into your brain and watched this show on Netflix kind of new called Safe.

[149] It's a fucking British procedural.

[150] Oh.

[151] This girl goes missing.

[152] It's based on a book by Harlan Coben, who I guess is like a mystery writer.

[153] Okay.

[154] I think I've heard that.

[155] It's all British people.

[156] Coben with a B or an H. Cohen.

[157] C -O -B -E -N.

[158] Oh, okay.

[159] Okay, main dude, it's the dad.

[160] He's the guy.

[161] There's some shady shit going on.

[162] What's going on?

[163] It's fucking Michael C. Hall with the hardest British accent you've ever fucking heard.

[164] Dexter?

[165] Yeah.

[166] What?

[167] Yeah.

[168] Oh, I have to...

[169] It's so distracting, but it's also like distracting because it's so good, but it's clearly a good, fake British accent.

[170] Oh, so he's not originally British?

[171] No. No. It doesn't seem to be, but I would love that as a reveal.

[172] No. I've been British this whole time.

[173] No, because I went to his house once.

[174] I've been to his house.

[175] Why?

[176] My friend's friend was having a party there, and he was very nice and not British.

[177] Okay.

[178] All right.

[179] Although, what if at the party he was putting on an American accent?

[180] Because he's like, people who want me to do my dexter thing when I'm at the party.

[181] I'm studying for a row, usually.

[182] Oh, that wasn't bad, right?

[183] No, it was really good.

[184] Everything we do is good.

[185] I'm really good at karaoke.

[186] It turns out.

[187] Also, I have a half an hour left of killing Eve, and I'm really excited about it.

[188] I just started killing Eve.

[189] Oh, you did?

[190] Yes.

[191] I loved it.

[192] I mean, love it.

[193] Yeah, those two ladies, Sandra O and the woman, oh, God, she's good.

[194] She's got a foreign name, therefore we don't have to remember it.

[195] I don't even think that's true.

[196] Oh, shit.

[197] But she's great.

[198] No, that's a good show.

[199] There's also lots of great British actors in that show.

[200] Yeah, the dude who plays the Bill, who, yeah.

[201] The boss or the asshole boss?

[202] the cool boss I love that guy yeah he's from I knew you'd know him I'm gonna have to think about that for a little while but anyway that's a delightful show yeah it's really good and then did you see somebody tweeted at us that they went to the screening they wore a murderino shirt and then a bunch of people yelled at them and they had like a moment I love it it's very cool I hope I hope Sandra O heard that and knows that we think she's Brad we love you Sandra O she's just so cool she plays like this bumbling detective yes I love it but like it made me think of because i don't watch gray's anatomy i've watched it a little bit wait you're not obsessed with gray's anatomy i know i'm not a gray's craze i don't have a an anatomar and anadmire there it is i'm going to trademark that uh in an anatomire in canada um when she was in the movie touch my toe when she was in sideways which i just rewatched once again because it's so good she is so good she is so sensitive sexy in that movie.

[203] Just like messy hair.

[204] And then in, in, um, in this one, killing Zoe, killing Eve.

[205] That's a, that's a movie.

[206] Okay, it is.

[207] Yeah, yeah.

[208] Thank God.

[209] With, um, why am I even pretending to be like, to know who's in anything?

[210] Killing Zoe's a different one.

[211] It's with the guy who was in the mask.

[212] Eric Stoltz.

[213] And then the, and then Julie Delphi.

[214] Whoa.

[215] Only because I had a big crush on her.

[216] Julie Delphi?

[217] Yeah.

[218] Okay.

[219] Um, go on.

[220] Anyway, well, no, no, what I was going to say is she's the different, oh, when I first started watching killing Eve, all I could think of was, I can't believe it's the same person who was inside ways being the sexy girl that has the affair.

[221] Yeah.

[222] Because she is doing that kind of like, m' dumpy thing and it's so funny.

[223] She's good.

[224] She's great.

[225] I want to, can I do a quick, uh, fucking piece of business?

[226] Would you?

[227] It's not that boring.

[228] Give this podcast some fucking structure.

[229] I will not.

[230] So we have a fan cult now, a fan club that you, if you go on my favoritemerder .com, you can join it.

[231] You get a free t -shirt, a fan cult t -shirt, and an animal pin.

[232] And then we also do, like, we're going to post videos.

[233] We're going to post old live shows that we've never posted before.

[234] Oh, yeah, I think that's a big deal, actually.

[235] Right.

[236] We don't think we've really mentioned that.

[237] I think we should start doing this week.

[238] Yeah.

[239] The fan cult right now, it's like, you know, you pay money and then you get to be on a forum.

[240] Nobody else gets to be on.

[241] And we, that's when we were like posting tour videos and stuff like that when we could.

[242] But we are going to start releasing old live shows that we've never released before on the fan cult.

[243] So if you are one of those people that likes to tweet at us once a month for three years straight about how you want your episode of the show that you were at to be posted, well, guess what?

[244] Join that fan cult because then that's how you're going to be able to listen to.

[245] And actually, we should start a chat room.

[246] Is that still a thing?

[247] I don't want to.

[248] In the forum on the fan cult.

[249] and say which ones you want to see that are from the, which live shows.

[250] Oh, like, start a threat.

[251] Yeah, because I don't remember what any of them were like.

[252] But, okay, so now people are posting, so how people just started posting photos of their pets in the fan club t -shirt that they get for free, and it's the best.

[253] Of course.

[254] I love it.

[255] I made Steven put a slide show up, a slide show up on Instagram.

[256] And so I want everyone to now hashtag fan cult pets when you put your pet in there and we'll make slideshows like once a week of the pets with the t -shirts because it's hilarious.

[257] And then there was someone who posted a fucking goat in the t -shirt today and it just made my day.

[258] That's the funniest thing because lately the couple times I've posted I took the dumbest picture in the world of Georgia and then I had to post it because she looked so stupid because I was weirdly over her so her eyes were crossed but it looked like she was smiling and she has these tiny little teeth anyway every time I post a picture of either of my dog people respond with pictures of their dogs and it is the cutest most fun thing because then it's just like it's as we're all pretending dogs are talking to each other I love it normally I don't go for stuff like us so -and -so exactly so -and -so says hi I think in this day and age where everything around us is an onslaught of horror you need like a picture of a dog in a shirt amen thank you amen hashtag fan cult pets and someday I'll put Marty and his fucking fan culture my dad who joined the fan cult on his own accord god bless him even though i would have given it to him for free i'm not a fucking sheep skate i would have given i would have given you 20 bucks to go in half on marty's membership i have to say that people have mentioned this but i think it's a pretty good deal yeah 40 bucks for one full year it's for a year oh it's only for a year yeah that makes more sense because if you rush if you work it out uh like a one of the great accountants of the world try not to shit on accounts anymore um that works out to you paying about a quarter an episode yeah one 25 cent piece for an episode of this podcast and you get a t -shirt and an enamel pin and you get to talk to marty you get to talk to people and you get to be there on the inside line when we start doing actual shit that people care about yeah and when that when we do like you why are we trying to listen do or don't there's no try yeah and we wrote that George Locus not you that's mine that's mine that's mine you or don't there's no true you know at the end of the day I'm not here to make friends the bachelor I'm too over the ship all right okay so last episode was a live one from the Dublin the episode before that was our famous Paul Hall's episode that Karen is still recovering from dude I tried to relisten I mean to listen to the poll holes episode so I was like this will be fun the first time like I do commend myself for a not crying yeah be not be not leaving I actually really really wanted to leave when he first was in the room you know there was that back door yeah I was like I could here's what I could do I could hold up my valet ticket like there's something wrong with my car and walk out that door and there's nothing they can do like you would just have to keep on recording next time I see you i know but i just i'll deal with that later oh but it was a pan it was fight or flight oh my god and i really it was that thing where i was like i can't do you did great you did great i know you did great i know you hate surprises yes that was tough but also trying to form a sentence where you're presenting your fucking dumb theory to a i know i know person who worked on the case for 30 years i know i felt really stupid i felt so stupid but yeah i guess that's just how it's going to be yeah there was I'm just saying there was like...

[259] He was very patient with us, considering, like...

[260] He's the best person on the planet.

[261] Everyone you need to know, like, he was...

[262] He's not just like that on when he's being recorded or whatever.

[263] He's, he is like that in person.

[264] He, like, deserves all the accolades he gets.

[265] He was such a fucking nice person.

[266] Because no...

[267] I have never been friends with a cop before.

[268] Right.

[269] And he's the first one.

[270] It was so nice.

[271] You know, that's the thing is, I do know cops.

[272] Yeah, you do.

[273] of people, my family, and whatever.

[274] My panic, I think, in that moment of he's actually in this building was I didn't want him to come through that door and be what I thought a cop would act like, which is a swaggering, condescending.

[275] That's true.

[276] He's a science -based.

[277] But I had that fear of like, you know, as I've said a million times, working in television, you learn very quickly.

[278] You do not want to meet your heroes.

[279] You do not.

[280] That person that you're like, that person's great because they're on Grays Anatomy.

[281] No, fuck, no, you're going to have the worst experience and you're going to be heartbroken.

[282] So that was part of my like, uh -oh, like here, now if this guy's corny or lame, that's just how it's going to be.

[283] I have this, like, self -esteem issue where I don't think professional people want to talk to me because I'm not.

[284] I fucking dropped out of community college.

[285] Because you dropped out of community college that they can tell from your community college cap too?

[286] It's the thing of like when you go to a party and like, there are your friends and then there's some girl there and it's like, so where, so what college did you go to?

[287] right when someone asked me that question i want to get mean but i know it's only because i'm really self -conscious of it but also like why are you asking me that i'm 30 fucking seven years old yeah well also some people that's all they have i don't know what my point was but he was really i felt very comfortable around him there's a lot there was a lot of reason to be insecure a lot a lot of reasons to be insecure and you he was his whole personal personality and demeanor was exactly the kind of thing that made you go he'll want to hear my theory about why Uh, he was a, he looked at one way in Visalia.

[288] Yeah.

[289] Like, he made us feel like he did want to hear that stupid bullshit.

[290] It's very exciting.

[291] He's a lovely person.

[292] And I have to say, I don't know why we didn't take pictures or we should have taken video.

[293] A video of him coming in.

[294] Something.

[295] Because we get scared and panicked.

[296] Yeah, we were panicking.

[297] But, um, but I was going to say, we had a lovely conversation after we stopped recording too.

[298] Because I was like waiting for him to just leave.

[299] Yeah.

[300] And then.

[301] To get, make an excuse.

[302] yeah it should be like girls you're welcome goodbye but here's the best part i don't think did we say this um the last i guess on the minisode or something but he told us afterwards because we assumed he was just in town yeah he traveled down from northern california specifically to be on the podcast um but no that was magical time that you know we we're very lucky don't here's my thing karen i say to myself don't read listen to the episode have it as a nice memory in your mind and walk away clean knowing that you didn't wet your pants or do anything you didn't run you need to give it an Italian style kiss and then walk away and walk away on to the next kiss into the face of it yeah onto the next investigator who solves a massive cold case speaking of should we do an episode perfectly white teeth he must not drink coffee which I can't how do you get through life.

[303] His teeth are perfectly white.

[304] I know.

[305] Okay.

[306] Sorry.

[307] Maybe they pass out teeth whiteners on first class Southwest now.

[308] You get your own crest white strips at the beginning of the trip and then you take them off the runway at the end.

[309] I mean, I got to say, we're not being paid by them, but those motherfuckers work.

[310] Cross white strip?

[311] Yeah.

[312] I wish, I mean, clearly I don't know.

[313] Have you ever used one?

[314] Look at my fucking rotten teeth.

[315] No. I have.

[316] I have.

[317] I have.

[318] I. I I had my teeth professionally whitened once, and I was like, well, now they're whitened, but now they're just still all short Irish teeth.

[319] What's the point?

[320] That's like, don't wash the curtains on the front of your shitty house.

[321] Yes.

[322] Wash the curtains on the front of your shitty house.

[323] I'm getting the curtains fully replaced with a set.

[324] I'm going to get teeth so big and white in Hollywood that they're going to look like cartoon teeth that are just one strip and that have no individual teeth.

[325] It's just going to look like I stuck in one big thing of, You're going to replace the whole fucking house.

[326] You're going to demolish the house and you're going to build a fucking McMansion in its place, a tacky.

[327] It's going to be a fucking houseboat house, but with teeth, made of teeth.

[328] That's good.

[329] Houseboat house is truckboat truck that you stole from Squidbillies.

[330] Just want to give credit where credit is due.

[331] Let's please give credit.

[332] All do.

[333] Okay.

[334] Do you want to go first or do you want me to go first?

[335] Whatever you want.

[336] I'll do it.

[337] How's your, what's yours?

[338] Weird.

[339] Mine's dark.

[340] Okay.

[341] Is you solved?

[342] Yes.

[343] Okay.

[344] I'm going to go first then.

[345] Okay.

[346] Is that okay?

[347] Yeah?

[348] Because then we'll have a good ending.

[349] Yeah.

[350] Because mine isn't.

[351] Do you mind if I get a cup of coffee?

[352] No. I thought you were going to say, do you mind if I guess what it is?

[353] Do you mind if I guess what the solution to your crime is?

[354] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[355] Absolutely.

[356] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[357] Exactly.

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[369] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[370] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

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[372] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[373] Goodbye.

[374] Hey, this is exciting.

[375] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[376] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[377] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[378] Who killed Saz?

[379] And were they really after Charles?

[380] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[381] This season, murder hits close to home.

[382] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[383] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[384] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[385] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[386] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[387] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[388] Goodbye.

[389] All right.

[390] All right.

[391] We're back.

[392] We're back with coffee.

[393] You're coffied.

[394] I'm just a it's less for the caffeine and more just to brown my teeth down a tiny bit more you just got to get that perfect mocha I'm tanning my teeth tanning my teeth all right okay yeah listen look it's finally fucking time to look and listen to Mr. Cruel oh fuck I know good good one I know right it hit me yeah I'd been starting it for And then just with this whole Golden State Killer thing, which I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing us talk about.

[395] Who cares?

[396] Fuck them.

[397] I'll never stop talking about it.

[398] I'll never stop.

[399] But wait, are you starting with this?

[400] Because the Mr. Cruel, the first piece of news, the day of the arrest or the day before the arrest?

[401] The day that it was announced that the Golden State Killer, a suspect had been apprehended.

[402] So it wasn't even like, yeah.

[403] Go ahead.

[404] No, no, no, you can say this.

[405] Maybe it was in your story.

[406] Because I have a Golden State Killer and Irons on my Gula Alert, so I get those news things whenever they come out.

[407] Cool.

[408] And it was just a news piece that said, is the Golden State Killer Mr. Cruel?

[409] And I was like, that's weird, just out of the blue.

[410] Somebody's just, like, asking that question.

[411] And then it was, like, several hours later where they're like, they have a DNA.

[412] Right.

[413] So, but also they were like Golden State Killer linked to Mr. Cruel, which was really exciting the thought of killing like two birds I guess that's a bad way of saying it of like fucking catching these two elusive you know I'd say equally fucking traumatic cases yeah at the same time would have been awesome didn't happen but we'll talk about that we'll talk I won't talk a lot about that but would have actually would have been beyond crazy because it's like golden state killer in and of itself is mind -blowing yeah crazy and then the idea of that where it's like then you're just just pulling down all kinds of cases.

[414] So Mr. Cruel, I want to say it was similar, but it, you know, of what it did to the public.

[415] But I think it's, Golden State Killer was so little known and it wasn't known his scope until much later.

[416] Right.

[417] So it's hard to say that.

[418] But it, this is one of those cases where it changed life in the suburbs in Melbourne's like outer reaches forever in the 80s.

[419] One of those, oh, the 80s are fucked.

[420] up, we can't let our kids play outside.

[421] Yeah.

[422] It just left an fucking indelible scar on that.

[423] Yeah.

[424] That sounds smart.

[425] It did sound smart and good.

[426] All right.

[427] There we go.

[428] I didn't make up a word.

[429] You didn't, you used it.

[430] You used it correctly.

[431] Thank you.

[432] And you didn't even stop until the end.

[433] Yeah, I didn't even question myself until the end.

[434] Until the end.

[435] All right.

[436] Here we go.

[437] In the late 80s to early 90s in the suburbs of Melbourne, Australia, a serial pedophile rapist known as Mr. Cruel was fucking traumatizing everyone, all right?

[438] Here we go.

[439] So on December 27th, 1988 in Ringwood, which is a working class suburb of Melbourne, at about 5 .30 a .m., a man wearing a blue ski mask and dark blue overalls breaks into the home of John and Julie Wills, where they live with their four daughters.

[440] He first goes to the parents' bedroom and puts a gun to Mr. Will's to fucking run for it.

[441] Oh, could you imagine waking up to your mother screaming, run?

[442] Yes, no, I can't.

[443] Please.

[444] He tells her to stop screaming and asks, he tells her to stop screaming and asks the dad if he's going to be a hero, which is such a fucking threatening thing to ask someone.

[445] He forces them to lie face down on their bed and ties them up with copper wire.

[446] He tells them, and this is one of his ruses, that I'm just here for money.

[447] So they're more compliant.

[448] So they let them, they let him tie them up.

[449] And they take $35, this van takes $35 from a nightstand.

[450] And then this man heads for the kids' room.

[451] Cuts the telephone cables, goes in the bedroom where 10 -year -old Sharon and her siblings are sleeping.

[452] I know.

[453] Okay, this is fucked up and horrible and children are involved.

[454] Yes.

[455] And it's big, you know.

[456] But also it's one of the most famous cases out of Australia.

[457] And when we were there, people would talk to us about it all the time.

[458] And it was like, for live shows, you just can't do these.

[459] This is the kind of one you can only do on a show.

[460] No one forgets these and the horrible, you know, it's like the Adam Walsh one for us.

[461] It's not solved and it's fucking insane and very solvable.

[462] Yeah.

[463] Okay.

[464] So Sharon is a 10 -year -old.

[465] She's a quiet girl.

[466] She plays a lot of musical instruments.

[467] She sings in the Victoria's Children's Choir.

[468] He addresses her by name, which he maybe knew because their house had been featured in the newspaper.

[469] six months earlier after the home caught on fire or maybe from being in the choir but that thing of like you see a child in the newspaper and these fucking pad like we should stop printing children's names and newspapers maybe i mean if only that would solve it correct yes you were right so he lifts uh Sharon from her bunk blindfolds and gags her and after grabbing a few items of Sharon's clothing he leaves the home with her.

[470] It takes Mr. Mrs. Willis.

[471] 15 minutes should get free.

[472] They see that the daughter's missing and their phone cord's been cut.

[473] They go next door, wake up the neighbors, and they call the police.

[474] There's no trace of Sharon and no witnesses could be found.

[475] They have press conferences.

[476] The cops are going crazy to find her.

[477] 18 hours later, just after midnight, a woman finds Sharon standing on a street corner.

[478] I forgot to fucking translate this, six kilometers from her home.

[479] Which I think it's just a couple miles.

[480] Right.

[481] I think it's like three miles or so.

[482] So she's three miles from home.

[483] She's wearing a man's shirt and wrapped in garbage bags.

[484] She's alive.

[485] Oh, my God.

[486] But she's alive.

[487] And in a calm voice, she says to the woman, my name's Sharon Wills, and I was taken from my home early this morning.

[488] A man left me here and told me to go and ring home.

[489] This woman was like, what the fuck?

[490] Yeah.

[491] She described Sharon as being brave.

[492] calm and police were called and Sharon is brought home.

[493] She had been blindfolded throughout her whole 18 -hour ordeal, so she couldn't describe her attacker, but she was able to give them many other details about her time in captivity.

[494] The man had taken her to a house and sexually assaulted her.

[495] She said he was occasionally gruff, but mostly soft -spoken and seemed to be caring.

[496] And she even used the word gentle, which is so fucking creepy.

[497] He gave her a glass of milk and a vegemite sandwich and some lemonade.

[498] so he was like feeding her and caretaking her before he let her go though he made her shower thoroughly yeah he brushed and flushed her teeth and he trimmed and cleaned her nails thoroughly washing away any forensic evidence so clearly he was aware of it even in 1988 he was which then i just go cop cop right it's what everyone fucking thinks like he lay a sheet down on the bathroom floor make her stand on it after the bath and and like dressed her there like wouldn't even let her feet hit the ground.

[499] Wow.

[500] And she described police how he made her stand in a large plastic garbage bag when she pulled up and taped to her shoulders, put another bag over her head, and taped it to her body before cutting out a small hole for her face, and then dropped her off a few miles from her house telling her to walk to the nearest house to call home.

[501] So a hundred dollar, no, a hundred thousand dollar reward is offered for information on Sharon's abduction.

[502] This is the first award offered in an abduction case in the state's history.

[503] So they'd never offered a reward before.

[504] There were a couple suspects, but nobody panned out.

[505] His next abduction took place 18 months later on July 3rd, 1990 in Canterbury, just over 10 miles from Sharon's house.

[506] It's an affluent suburb.

[507] A 13 -year -old girl, Nicola Linus, and her 15 -year -old sister, Fiona, their home alone and their family's rented house where their parents were out and they were only supposed to be gone for like two hours so police think that this guy was canvassing the area the linus family uh was moving back to england after the father's three -year transfer had ended for his job at price water house so they were packed and they were ready to leave within a few days and the party that they're the where the parents were at was a farewell party for them Nicola is described by her parents as a hardworking girl, one of the top students.

[508] At about 11 .30 p .m., both girls are shaken awake by a masked man, armed with a long knife and a handgun, who would crept through a weird window of the house wearing a black ski mask.

[509] 15 -year -old Fiona is tied up and left on her bed, while 13 -year -old Nicola is forced into another room and told to gather her school uniform, blazer, tunic, and runners.

[510] Those are her shoes.

[511] for those not from Australia before leaving with her Mr. Cruel tells Fiona to tell her father that he would release Nicola unhurt if they paid a $25 ,000 ransom so Mr. Cruehl then walks Nicola out of the house and steals Linus's family rented car and fucking takes off in that car so Mr. and Mrs. Linus arrived home about 30 minutes later they find Fiona on her bed tied up a massive search begins and Mr. Linus spoke in a press conference and offered the ransom money but Mr. Cool didn't reach out they couldn't get a hold of him he's full of shit it was another fucking red herring so they would look into his business dealings all of that shit oh right and be distracted by something else just like in the past one where they were like he was there for money he was stealing shit right no instead and they found the rented car a couple blocks away.

[512] So he had just driven it to his car as another way to throw off police.

[513] The following day, Nicola is left alive beside an electricity substation in Q about three miles from her home just before 2 a .m. She's fully clothed.

[514] She's wrapped in a blanket.

[515] It was her 14th birthday.

[516] She went home and called her father.

[517] She went to a home and called her father.

[518] So she had been gone for 50 hours.

[519] Shit.

[520] She tells police about her, that her abductor had driven her to the area, and then when he was taking her back, he had driven her there, walked her around a little, kind of to confuse her while her eyes are taped shut, made her sit with her head between her legs, and took off, and he was gone by the time she removed her blindfold, that she had been wearing for 50 fucking hours.

[521] She told police that she was masked and bound throughout the ordeal, but was not threatened with violence.

[522] She had been given food and drink.

[523] She had described her attacker as affectionate.

[524] chummy like what a fucking psychopath yeah this dude is also it's making me think of uh paul holes on twitter somebody said do you think that the east area rapist or the golden state killer could also be this case and they brought up some other northern california uh maybe it was the i5 strangler it made just somebody another case and then he was talking about the difference between the mo's one is yeah i remember that's like one is a friendly person and one is stroking the hair pretending that it's a consensual situation and then golden state killer is as a sadist a sexual sadist and a psychological asshole leave that in i mean what if we you say stuff and then i'll just read paul's twitter how about from now on your stories are always just you reading paul's twitter i might have to go to therapy more therapy more therapy he calls her Missy during fantasy games he played with her.

[525] She said he was meticulous in covering his forensic tracks and she also told him that he had watched the press conference where her father had spoke.

[526] Oh, fuck.

[527] With her in the room and he was commenting on it to Nicola about it.

[528] Like, can you imagine being a kidnapped person and you're in the room where your father's pleading for your fucking return and he's just like commenting on it?

[529] That's so dark.

[530] It's so dark.

[531] It's so disorienting and upsetting anyway and then you're just kind of like you're through the looking glass.

[532] I think that like, I think at some point in the past 10 years it hit me how terrifying being blindfolded must be.

[533] So it kind of gives me a panic attack whenever I think about that.

[534] Yeah.

[535] So that, and then to be hearing what's going on on the TV too has to be so scary and, okay.

[536] It was then reported.

[537] So then the cops at this point, police are able to connect these two cases, Sharon and Nicholas, and they didn't make this public.

[538] They connected these two cases and then they realized that there had been another attack that they could link it to beforehand in August of 1987.

[539] So this is the previous one.

[540] About an 11 -year -old girl, she's never been named.

[541] At about 4 a .m., wearing a mask and carrying a small handgun and a large hunting knife, he removes a window pane in the lounge of the house in the suburb of lower plenty, is the name of the suburb of Melbourne.

[542] Remember when we were in Melbourne?

[543] Melbourne.

[544] I remember like, this is so cute here.

[545] No, it's a scary place.

[546] But they have such cute dresses.

[547] It's the best dresses.

[548] Okay.

[549] So he first again, and it's in a couple of these stories that I read online, it sounds like he went straight to the parents room.

[550] Like he knew what rooms everyone was in, meaning he canvassed it.

[551] He's chasing that shit.

[552] He's watching them.

[553] Exactly.

[554] So he for he wakes the parents and forces him to lie on their stomachs, ties their hands and feet.

[555] He uses expertly tied knots commonly used by sailors and those familiar with securing loads.

[556] Again, the knots are like distinct.

[557] And then he gags them and put surgical tape over their eyes and locks them in their bedroom closet.

[558] He says, get into the wardrobe and sit down.

[559] All I want is money.

[560] Lyer.

[561] Liar.

[562] So like, of course they're complicit.

[563] Complicit?

[564] Compliant?

[565] Compliant?

[566] All of them.

[567] And complacent.

[568] Because they're like, oh, he just wants money.

[569] I don't need to defend my family.

[570] Let's just go along with what he says.

[571] It's such a great ruse because if he were like, I just want to kill your daughter, they'd be like, fuck the shit.

[572] I'm going to fight to the death.

[573] Right.

[574] You know?

[575] Yes, exactly.

[576] There's an element of relaxation because it's like, he can take anything you want.

[577] That's what everyone says in that horrible situation.

[578] It's just like, who cares about it?

[579] Take it to me want, don't hurt us.

[580] And he's like, I'm not going to.

[581] I just want money.

[582] So they go along with it, which is so evil.

[583] So the next thing that happens is their six -year -old son is blindfolded and gagged, and he's tied to his bed.

[584] And then, and remember this is the first known Mr. Cruel attack, then he spends the next two hours in the house sexually assaulting the 11 -year -old daughter.

[585] In the house?

[586] He stays in the house.

[587] He doesn't kidnap her.

[588] So if this is truly his first attack, which we don't believe it is, of course, then he's clearly with these other two cases that I already talked about escalating.

[589] He takes them away and keeps them for longer and longer times.

[590] But in this one that happened before, he does it in the fucking house.

[591] He's in no hurry.

[592] He even takes a break to make something to eat in the kitchen.

[593] Just like the fucking Golden State Killer did.

[594] And I wonder, and I don't mean to like question you on this, but well, if the knots are the same, these knots are even similar to the Golden State Killer knot.

[595] Well, remember because he spent some time in the Navy in Australia.

[596] that's why they were wondering if he had something to do with this case.

[597] DeAngelo did?

[598] Yeah.

[599] The Golden State Killer, Joseph DiAngelo, spent time in the Navy in Australia.

[600] Shit.

[601] Yeah.

[602] But in that time frame or before?

[603] Way before, like in the late 60s.

[604] So he was familiar with it.

[605] Going there wouldn't have been a weird thing for him.

[606] No, no, no, no. But I wonder if those knots were taught in the Navy.

[607] Oh, got it.

[608] Or in Australia for some reason.

[609] Yeah.

[610] You know what I mean?

[611] Yes.

[612] he also searched the home and he did steal a box of classical records and a coat but they think that was a red herring too but I'm like maybe I was just fucking into classical records or maybe he's like one of those fucking weirdos that's all grabby and like I need something this is the closest thing so listen girls and guys check your dad's record collection and see if he has an errant box of classical music and then turn him into the Melbourne police Australian classical music that's right so the girls later told police that he had made a phone call near her while she was tied up and threatened another family with physical violence.

[613] The fuck.

[614] She said he told the person on the phone to move their children or they would be in danger and that he called the person he phoned Bozo.

[615] That was one of his nicknames for people.

[616] But when police checked the phone records, it revealed there was no phone call made.

[617] So that was another red herring for her to tell him about that.

[618] But I don't understand that.

[619] I don't believe it.

[620] I don't know why, but that creeps me out worse than everything.

[621] Like someone talking to nobody on the fake phone?

[622] Yes.

[623] I hate that so much.

[624] It's like eerie.

[625] Because I hate bad acting and you know it was bad acting but like, but that idea of I'm doing something like, there's a control element to it of like.

[626] I'm doing something and it's not for anyone but this girl right here and the police who come and yeah.

[627] It's like a shock and awe thing.

[628] You don't know what's going on and then you more don't know what's going on.

[629] It's like it's a call was coming from inside the house type of thing.

[630] But then I'm like, could the phone records have been shitty back then?

[631] Because that doesn't make any sense.

[632] Unless he's just trying to make this girl think that he is a full, full time 24 -7 criminal, you know, rapist threat, where it's like, once I'm done with this appointment, I'm going to go do my other thing.

[633] Right, right.

[634] So they think that was just a red herring, which was one of his stupid signatures.

[635] This fucking asshole.

[636] Okay.

[637] Okay.

[638] So this connection made Mr. Cruel a household name.

[639] And the name Mr. Cruel comes now when he's described by Victorian police in a late Victoria police, not Victorian police, because that would have, that would be a weird time traveling thing.

[640] This is a Jack the Ripper's investigators like, oh, and really, really quick.

[641] There's going to be a future case.

[642] No. Let me wax my mustache really quick.

[643] That's not what happened.

[644] Victoria Police in the late 80s described this guy in the papers as super cool and super cruel and so some fucking smart out journalist was like that's his name Mr. Cruel Wait sorry, who would describe this guy as cool Miss like cool as a cucumber Like he's hung out at the house and shit He's not worried about getting caught Yeah Not like you know Who's cool?

[645] Not like a The Fons?

[646] Yeah There you go.

[647] Thank you This is the only cool person I can think of.

[648] And you were right.

[649] I was thinking of just the worst people.

[650] Okay.

[651] Name one person you were thinking of.

[652] I forgot already.

[653] You know, Cato Caelin.

[654] Cool.

[655] You know.

[656] You know the kind of guy you'd want to talk to at a party.

[657] Cato Cailin.

[658] You know.

[659] What if it was Cato Cailin?

[660] No, it's not.

[661] It's not.

[662] And we're not suggesting it is.

[663] I met him.

[664] Very nice person.

[665] Very nice.

[666] Everyone says he's the nicest.

[667] And cool.

[668] And cool.

[669] That's one thing they say about him.

[670] Super cool.

[671] Okay.

[672] So the police are now very concerned because, and the police, I want to give them credit and the investigators were fucking on this shit hardcore from, like, from get.

[673] Like they, from get?

[674] From get.

[675] Except they fucked up a little bit, but I'll tell you about that later.

[676] Okay.

[677] So police are worried because the time lapse between his attacks is decreasing while the time he holds his victims is increasing.

[678] And so the police announced that they believe Mr. Cruel to be responsible for at least six attacks before this since 1984.

[679] So, but they didn't give descriptions, but they did say that not all the victims were children, but they didn't like tell you which attacks they were, but they think that he's escalating.

[680] Yeah.

[681] And these other ones, these older ones fit his ammo.

[682] Also, the idea of children being the victim as an escalation marker makes a lot of sense, because it's like to attack a person near you, to attack enough adult or whatever but it is especially evil and disgusting and and awful to be like take a 10 year old out of their bed absolutely but you think that that wouldn't be the escalation because you'd attack a kid first because they'd be easier to handle than an adult like a woman an adult woman and yeah i mean it's all it's all listen listen don't do either look look and listen don't do podcast do us a favor and fucking knock it off please get help you need help or just go go into the woods for a while yeah just stay away just don't do it please people have plans they have fun stuff they want to do um so so because very little evidence is left behind because he's so good at hiding his tracks the invest the investigation in finding him is a total dead end even though they're fucking crazy looking one piece of evidence that emerged and later interviews with Sharon and Nicola was that both girls, this is so fucking creepy, recalled hearing low -flying planes over the house where they were held captive.

[683] Oh, oh.

[684] What did you think that meant?

[685] For a second, I thought you meant that they'd heard low -flying planes like days before.

[686] Oh, like he was a fucking parachuting in a biplane, like fucking recon.

[687] That would be so scary.

[688] That would be horror.

[689] It's like the red baron is coming.

[690] after you.

[691] Oh, no. That's not what happened, though.

[692] But that's actually, it's the other thing of you're blindfolded, and so then you can fucking hear it and you're traumatized, so you're listening to everything and you're, you know, it's like, and they're just laying there.

[693] Oh, honey.

[694] Yeah.

[695] I feel so bad for them.

[696] So they hear low flying planes where they were held captive.

[697] Um, Nicholas said that it sounded like the plans were coming into land, which is like, girl, get it.

[698] Police worked with a civil aviation authority to pinpoint flight paths and based on the description from the girl, based on the description from the girls about the frequency and loudness of the flights, which is so interesting that like every little detail counts.

[699] You know when everyone's like, is there anything else you can think of?

[700] I've told you everything.

[701] It's like, you just don't know what can matter.

[702] Yeah.

[703] So the, so based on all of that, they determined that the girls had heard planes on the flight path to Tillamorine airport.

[704] So they're like pinpointed the fucking airport near Melbourne.

[705] So, Mr. Cruehl's final known attack, all right, this is fucking depressing.

[706] Mr. Cruehl's final known attack takes place nine months after Nicholas attack on the evening of Saturday, April 31st, that's not right, April 13th, 1991, in Temple's Toe, it's a high -end suburb of Melbourne close to the other attacks.

[707] 13 -year -old Carmen Chan is home babysitting her two younger sisters, which is a totally normal occurrence as their parents worked long hours in the family's successful Chinese restaurant was just 10 minutes away.

[708] The chans are a hardworking couple.

[709] They built a small restaurant and property development empire since migrating from Hong Kong 16 years earlier.

[710] They worked like 15, 16 hours a day.

[711] Their home is described as being like a fortress.

[712] So it's an 18 -room house and it's protected by a two -meter fence with electric front gates.

[713] So they're not fucking around on security.

[714] So leaving their three daughters at home is not that big of a deal because they've taken measures.

[715] Carmen went to the same school as Nicola, which is a weird coincidence.

[716] Or is it a red flag?

[717] Herring?

[718] We don't know.

[719] Is it a herring wrapped in a flag?

[720] A red flag herring is a new thing.

[721] Carmen's principal describes her as charming, polite, enthusiastic, and lovely.

[722] She had a large group of friends and was extremely hardworking.

[723] So the sisters are watching a documentary about Marilyn Monroe in Carmen's bedroom when around 9 p .m., the two older sisters, Carmen and the sister, decided to go to the kitchen, but they're stopped in the hallway by a strange man in a bala clava.

[724] And he's carrying a large knife.

[725] Now, you've seen this fucking drawing of the bala clava that's supposedly handmade and has these crazy white stitches around the eyes and around the mouth.

[726] It's so upsetting.

[727] We're going to post it on Instagram when we post the...

[728] episode tomorrow it's very terrifying it's just like worse than a regular bala clava somehow and also when we oftentimes these kinds of stories come up the idea of walking you're in your house you think you know what's happening stepping into a hallway and there's that like uh my therapist described it as being mirror neurons where when you picture something happening to someone you actually get the sensation and the feeling and the stress reactor and the stress reaction because that's us empathizing with each other But that idea of, you know, when something weird happens in your brain, like, you can't, you feel yourself not registering it because it's so weird.

[729] Or you almost like, I feel like if I saw that I would go, what's going on?

[730] Like, you think it's a joke.

[731] Exactly.

[732] You don't consider that it's immediately a threat.

[733] Yeah, there's a hang time where you're just like, there's not someone in the hallway.

[734] Your brain has to catch up to it or what it means or what's dad, is dad playing a trick on us?

[735] Exactly.

[736] Like, it's so upsettingly awful.

[737] This is why I'm like pepper spray first.

[738] Like if you accidentally pepper spray your dad Because he was playing a trick on you Then your dad fucking deserves it Yeah I think that's a great way to teach pranksters Their boundaries You know what I mean?

[739] Yeah, kick someone in the dick If they jump out and scare you A hundred percent If it turns out that it's your friend fucking with you Then they deserved it Well then they won't fuck with you anymore Absolutely for sure No one will fuck with you anymore No one No word will get around No one but no one What was that?

[740] Why did I talk like that?

[741] I like that I just explained Why somebody in the hallway is scary as if that was my new idea for this fucking podcast.

[742] Come on, we can say whatever we want.

[743] We really can.

[744] It's really silly.

[745] No one can stop us.

[746] No one, but no one.

[747] All right.

[748] Carlin sister.

[749] Okay.

[750] So, Balaclav.

[751] Back to the horror show.

[752] Balaclava.

[753] Here's what's scary about it.

[754] It's like he has, you know, like even in the Golden State Killer when he's wearing the Balaclava ski mask, you can see what his shape his eyes are.

[755] Yeah.

[756] Maybe like the skin around it or what color it is.

[757] This one is made so it's peep holes.

[758] Yeah, it's awful.

[759] You can't see his mouth, you can't describe a lip shape, anything like that.

[760] It looks like something out of a Metallica video, or it's like, oh, this is a, it's this creature that's down at the bottom of a clay pit.

[761] Are you suggesting James Hetfield is Mr. Cruel?

[762] I'm saying, why don't we look at him when it's so obvious?

[763] Where was he?

[764] Were they touring Australia?

[765] Were they, I do know they kicked off their, um, uh, they kicked off one of their tours.

[766] in Petaluma at the Phoenix Theater, which is so hilarious to me. Why?

[767] Because they were a barrier band, and they were small, and we were small, and they were like, well, start there.

[768] These people, I almost called you guys Hicks.

[769] I'm sorry.

[770] We are Hicks, for sure.

[771] But we contain so much more.

[772] Maltitudes.

[773] Okay.

[774] Stop it.

[775] This is horrible.

[776] It's the worst.

[777] Okay.

[778] Okay.

[779] He grabs both the girls in the hallway by their hair, forces Carmen's two younger sisters into a closet, bars the door with the bed.

[780] The two younger girls later tell police that the intruder had called out, I won't hurt you.

[781] And by the time the girls pushed their way out of the cupboard, I think it was like 15 minutes later, there's no trace and no sign of Carmen.

[782] Police dogs trace Carmen sent through the house, past the family's car in the driveway, which they find is spray -painted with the words, payback, pay -back Asian drug dealer and more to come fucking red herring yeah now I'm on to it now you know they are they track across the garden then the tennis court through the gate the scent is lost on the street based on the M .O of course the police are like it's motherfucking Mr. Cruel this is bad so and unfortunately a search for Carmen starts out badly because are you ready for this listen fucking amen they were all these task forces put together everyone tried really hard to solve this it didn't work look here's a negative thing look and listen the initial police officer in charge that night set up the command post inside of the car of Carmen's house the crime scene inside the house oh oh so he brought everyone he was like this is a crime scene everyone get in here meet me in the middle of the house shit yeah but it's the late 80s 91 so basically leave in 80s still.

[783] That might be too late to have made that mistake.

[784] Like, do it in the tennis court or something.

[785] Yeah.

[786] If it's an 18 -room house, go outside.

[787] Yeah.

[788] So, so da -da -da -da -da set up outside.

[789] So people were swarming the house, which was supposed to be a crime scene, which meant it wasn't sealed off, as it should have been, possibly destroying vital evidence.

[790] But knowing Mr. Cruel had released Sharon Wills after 18 hours and Nicola Linus after 50, the Chan's had hope that their daughter would be home soon.

[791] But those deadlines passed and there was no sign of Carmen and no word for Mr. Cruel.

[792] So because of the spray pin in the car, police also spent months sifting through every aspect of Mr. Chan's life to see if the abduction was maybe drug or business related.

[793] Well, they'd have to.

[794] Yeah.

[795] They didn't think it was.

[796] They kind of knew it wasn't but had to.

[797] Yeah.

[798] Which takes, it's like work, time, money.

[799] Exactly.

[800] Fucking waste.

[801] They found Mr. Chan was squeaky.

[802] clean and that the slogans were another red herring and had sent the police on another wild goose chase.

[803] So, so, because Nicola and Carmen went to the same school.

[804] And Carmen had been abducted, abducted during a school holiday.

[805] And the other girls had been abducted around or on school holidays too.

[806] So the investigator surmised that maybe Mr. Cruel was, worked in education or had a partner who did and had that partner had gone away out of town for the school holiday.

[807] Oh, yeah.

[808] So they fucking asked everyone all these crazy questions.

[809] That might have been another red herring too to like spend time asking teachers and principals and people who work with them questions too that didn't have anything to do with it.

[810] It's so funny because there already are so many red herrings and cases like this and then just adding more to the pile.

[811] It leads it back to it's a cop.

[812] Right.

[813] So a dramatic quote, Police need your help poster.

[814] And it's almost like to me this reminds me of when we used to see the milk carton, the kids on.

[815] milk cartons.

[816] This like terrifying thing when we were kids.

[817] This poster showed photographs of the three known victims and offered a $300 ,000 reward for information leading to Mr. Cruel's conviction.

[818] It was sent to every home in Victoria and some in New South Wales and South Australia, which was a first, every single home.

[819] Wow.

[820] Huge versions were plastered on hundreds of billboards and smaller ones were displayed on Melbourne's buses and trams.

[821] It changed life in Australia forever in the standard we thought it was safe oh no it's the 80s no one is safe that was my quote way that's right so phyllis chan oh honey the mother the mother okay i want in a lot of podcasts this is the part where they'll just start playing her talking at this press conference which is the most traumatizing sad scary thing i've ever heard in my life so i'm not doing that because she's so upset she it's if you listen to it if you can handle shit like this but i i was listen, picture it.

[822] I was walking through H &M and I was listening to Case File, the Case File episode, and then it just starts playing and I got just chills down my whole body.

[823] It's so, like, the grief you can hear in her voice is heartbreaking.

[824] Yeah.

[825] So she makes these emotional pleas to him, to Mr. Cruel to bring her daughter home.

[826] She offers rewards.

[827] She offers to switch places.

[828] She offers her life for her daughters.

[829] No, no, no. I know.

[830] That's also a person.

[831] It's, I mean, like, obviously, that's what any mother's going to feel, but then it makes me go, she, she wasn't in a good place to be making any statement whatsoever.

[832] If you're...

[833] Well, they know he's watching.

[834] So they're like, let's just let her talk.

[835] And she calls, she says, I won't call you Mr. Cruel.

[836] I'm calling you Mr. Kind, because I know you're kind and you'll let her go.

[837] Like, just trying to fucking...

[838] That's a good psychology.

[839] Right.

[840] Trying to reason with him.

[841] It's so heartbreaking.

[842] So for almost a year, there's hope of Carmen Safer Stern, but on April 9th, 1992, just four days short of the first anniversary of Carmen's abduction.

[843] A man is walking his dog along Aguirreux Creek in Thomastown when he discovers a human scroll in a landfill.

[844] DNA confirms it's Carmen's school and she'd been shot three times in the head.

[845] They were able to find some other bones, but she'd been shot three times in the head.

[846] The head of the homicide squad thinks that Carmen's body had been there for nearly 12 months.

[847] So maybe since the beginning, which is so heartbreaking.

[848] That's the worst.

[849] Investigators think that it's the most likely reason for the change from kidnapper to killer is that Carmen somehow managed to see Mr. Cruel's face.

[850] Oh, yeah.

[851] Something he had painstakingly avoided with other victims through the use of mask and blindfold.

[852] He had told one victim before not to look at him saying, My freedom is more important than your life.

[853] and Carmen's mother Phyllis told police that her daughter was not the sort of girl to accept captivity without a fight and she thought that Carmen may have ripped off her blindfold and confronted Mr. Rekul for nearly three years after Carmen's found 40 investigators named the Spectrum Task Force followed 10 ,000 tip -offs tips.

[854] One of the victims said she saw a camera and tripod at the end of the bed she had peaked and oh God.

[855] Yeah, I know which the firm's speculation that Mr. Cruel likely created homemade porn to keep his trophies.

[856] So then they like have to look through all this shared homemade porn and see if they can find the porn made of these girls, which like you've got to think about the people on that task force who had to then watch fucking hours and hours and hours of child porn.

[857] Oh, it's horrible.

[858] How awful is that?

[859] Um, yeah, there's so much there's there's so much um, even thinking about something like that is really upsetting.

[860] Yeah.

[861] And the idea that those people do that as for a living.

[862] it makes you understand the whole like the whole trope of like coming home and to not wanting to tell your significant other how your day was because you've just watched hours of child porn to catch a killer who's on the loose you know and like you get why they like kind of disassociate and become like yeah this is this is the world that they this is how the world is to them yeah and they don't want to let their husband or wife or partner know what it's like of course not sucks um But, but, but, but, but, but, okay, so another burst of publicity, no, they can't, they have leads, but they, no one pans out.

[863] There's another burst of public, no, publicity.

[864] In 1993, after police released details and sketches of the interior of Mr. Cruel's house where he held as victims, because, uh, they, because the girls peaked out, one of the girls peaked out of her blindfold, even though it was like, fucking risking her life.

[865] Sharon and Nicola were able to provide police with aspects.

[866] of parts of the inside of the house were like including like let and there's sketches online you can see like kind of crude but like layout of the bathroom where the toilet was where the sink was where the bathtub was what color the fucking carpet was like little weird details that if you lived there you would you know you would be like that's my bedroom well and also just if you read those and then you're like wait a second yeah george's bathroom is like that you know what I mean and they have a carpet that's green that's so creepy it's so creepy um Also, like, one of the girls was able to tell them what side of the house she entered the house, entered on from the parking lot.

[867] So, like, even those little things, they could search houses.

[868] And they ended up searching 30 ,000 houses based on all this information, all the information that was given.

[869] It's insane.

[870] Yeah.

[871] They really worked this case.

[872] Overall, Operation Spectrum was Victoria Police's largest ever investigation at the time.

[873] It changed the way all Victorian detectives conduct investigations.

[874] almost a $4 million manhunt, though, turned up little in the way of answers to who Mr. Cruel was.

[875] Okay.

[876] Another roadblock was that some of the evidence from prior Mr. Cruel attacks from before had been lost, including tape Mr. Cruel abuse to bind one of his victims in an earlier case that wasn't one of these.

[877] And because they get more skilled with time, the older ones are so important.

[878] because maybe they were less skilled, they were a little messier.

[879] Yeah.

[880] But they couldn't find that.

[881] So there was no DNA that could be found from that.

[882] And the stink that the spectrum, Operation Spectrum, detective kicked up because they couldn't find those exhibits, records from earlier sex crimes, prompted a review by Victoria Police and the introduction of minimum standards for all future major crime investigation, and it covered such things as forensic, crime scene preservation, and other aspects of the investigation.

[883] And because of that, the police force, became more professional.

[884] It strengthened legislation regarding sex and child pornography as well.

[885] Good.

[886] The tax force was disbanded, though, in January of 1994, after detectives had eliminated more than 27 ,000 suspects.

[887] It did, but it didn't catch Mr. Cru, but the investigation led to 74 people being charged with offenses, including rape, incest, blackmail, attempted bestiality.

[888] Oh, no. Possession of child pornography.

[889] threats to kill, making obscene phone calls and firearm offenses.

[890] They worked for 29 months.

[891] I said all that.

[892] Since Carmen's murder, there have been no more apparent crimes committed.

[893] That could be connected to Mr. Cruel.

[894] They ended.

[895] And remember when Fucking GSK ended in 86?

[896] They were like, he had to have died.

[897] People don't end.

[898] Yeah.

[899] People don't stop.

[900] It doesn't just stop.

[901] One theory is that that the actual Mr. cruel was interviewed and feared that he was on a suspect list, so he just was too scared and stopped.

[902] That's one theory.

[903] The FBI got involved.

[904] Their analysis stated that he's a functional individual who has a steady employment.

[905] She's generally regarded as a good neighbor, quiet, somewhat introverted, maybe involved in certain community -minded projects.

[906] Like, so just a fucking everyday dude.

[907] Yeah.

[908] They built a profile of a man aged between 35 and 40, slightly built with sandy or ginger colored hair, softly spoken and quite caring in his own monstrous way.

[909] In fact, one of the victims told police that he, when he bathed her after, he bathed her quote like a mother washing a baby.

[910] God.

[911] I know.

[912] Then he's having this totally separate fantasy experience, where this is a consensual fucking relationship with a child.

[913] Right.

[914] And saying to them, he said to one of the girls, I'm going to bring you home in 50 hours.

[915] He brought her home.

[916] him in exactly 50 hours.

[917] Like this to him is just this little moment.

[918] Yeah.

[919] It's just something he needs to do and everything's okay.

[920] Right.

[921] And he's not a monster because he's not killing them in his mind probably, you know.

[922] So then in April of 2016, in the lead to the 25th anniversary of Carmen's murder, Victoria Police released a 1994 dossier to the Harold Sun newspaper, basically containing intimate details of the case that hadn't been released and contained information about seven possible suspects that hadn't been ruled out since then.

[923] Oh.

[924] including details of the prime suspect.

[925] So the prime suspect was then a 75 -year -old, he's like now, a 70, late 70 -year -old former Melbourne University lecturer.

[926] Who?

[927] Name Brian Allen Elkner, who wrote all these, like, creepy fucking Mercita -Sod style papers about evil and how doing evil is like an art form.

[928] And it's like, Uh -oh.

[929] All gross.

[930] In the late, in the 1970s, he was arrested and in prison for 10 years after pleading guilty to a series of rapes and other violent sexual offenses against young girls and women, including attacks at knife point in their homes.

[931] But he's like, hey, I know I'm the prime suspect.

[932] I didn't do it.

[933] Leave me alone.

[934] I paid my dues.

[935] But what the fuck?

[936] And he just, he, he serves 10 years in prison for being a violent child.

[937] child rapist.

[938] And then he's like, and now I'm going to get a job at the fucking university.

[939] No, I think he went back to his job as a lecturer.

[940] Like, he had already done that.

[941] Guys, it's got to change.

[942] We got to not.

[943] We got to, we got to keep it.

[944] There's got to be a qualified lecturer who's not a fucking child rapist.

[945] There's got to be other choices.

[946] There's got to be someone else in the bunch.

[947] I can't.

[948] Just the idea of people being like, oh yeah, I was a serial rapist, but I went to jail for seven years.

[949] Now it's, that's done.

[950] It's like, but we've, it's been proven it doesn't end like that.

[951] No, and it's like, even if it did, you don't get a, you don't get a free pass after.

[952] Like, I know it's like, they paid their dues.

[953] No, no, that's not enough dues.

[954] That's not enough dues.

[955] A million years aren't enough dues.

[956] You're not allowed to fucking sexually assault and rape women or men.

[957] Like, it's just.

[958] And especially fucking children.

[959] And you're going to get it for the rest of your fucking life.

[960] So now all these like newspapers were like following him and he's like, you're, what you're doing to me is the same, you know, you're harassing.

[961] me and I'm a victim too now saying like he was like one of his victims.

[962] No, you're not, buddy.

[963] That's why I'll fucking say your goddamn name Brian Allen Elkner, you piece of shit.

[964] Fuck you.

[965] Well, also that's the thing of here's the thing, you know, if you're going to go choose to be a serial apist, which is what the choice you made, this will be something that impacts your future life.

[966] Like maybe you'll be suspected of other things after.

[967] Right.

[968] You don't just get to wipe the slate clean.

[969] There's a reason.

[970] He's like, yeah, police call me after every time there's some kind of, you know, predator on the loose.

[971] Yeah, dummy.

[972] Yeah, because you're a predator.

[973] Yeah, you're a predator.

[974] I don't give a shit if you've never fucking done it again.

[975] You will always prove you've never done it again.

[976] Right, right.

[977] You can't.

[978] So Victorian police have confirmed that they investigated and ruled out a connection to the state's infamous and identified an identified offender, Mr. Cruel to the GSK, to the Golden State Killer.

[979] but they shared a ton of traits as we already said and they were both highly premeditated and surveilled neighborhoods for weeks at a time from what I can tell they don't have DNA on Mr. Cruel at all but I could see them having it and not telling anyone wait so then how do we know that they ruled about they just by timelines and stuff no they didn't rule him out oh the GSGS golden side killer yes he yeah it's not him oh okay maybe by DNA I don't know but hopefully hopefully they do have it and they'll be able to run it through that shit and solve it soon because that would be another great fucking win.

[980] Yeah, that would be amazing.

[981] Well, also, that's just such a, um, God, that's such an awful.

[982] Those kind of things can't just sit there like we're all fine with it.

[983] Yeah.

[984] And not that they do because obviously, like, it's very heartening to hear that they put together a task force with 40 cops on it.

[985] Yeah.

[986] That's amazing.

[987] When's the last time we've said something like that?

[988] where it's like usually the task force has five people who are working overtime yeah to to try to solve something yeah there's some number two of like the amount of unpaid overtime hours that these police officers put into this I mean there's all these numbers about it but um it's really horrifying and to be I feel like to be from that a kid from that period and that boogeyman is still fucking out there and it could be anyone and it's just so scary And the poor Chan family who have no peace of mind over this, it's just awful.

[989] Yeah, it is.

[990] So that's finally Mr. Cruel.

[991] Wow, that was great.

[992] Thank you.

[993] I think we really enlightened a lot of people on what's bad and how bad things should be dealt with.

[994] That's what I feel good about.

[995] They should be dealt with by canned wine.

[996] Cheers.

[997] Here's the commercial for canned wine.

[998] Excuse me. Steven, can you cut out every time I hawk up flam like a fucking Greek fisherman?

[999] god damn it i see the twitter excuse me greek fishermen or actually excuse me my dad's greek and i'm brokenhearted that you would say i uh should i peevers also actually i think i just stole that from paul tomkins he used to call himself a greek fisherman so if we're going to footnote credit every fucking aspect of this show tonight and i think we should i agree i'm shouting out to paul tomkins that that's uh the greek fisherman line is his we should call this uh footnoting the Greek fishermen this episode.

[1000] Starring Paul Tompkins.

[1001] The Greek Fisherman is a Greek fisherman.

[1002] You heard of hear first kids.

[1003] That's what this episode is called.

[1004] But we'll do it just all initials.

[1005] P -F -T -E -I -A -G -N -N -A -G -F.

[1006] All right.

[1007] Do you want to?

[1008] I want to wait, but then I don't want to stop you in the middle of it.

[1009] Wait, you want to go to the bathroom?

[1010] No, no. Okay, I'll just power through this.

[1011] No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I take your time.

[1012] I have a diaper on.

[1013] You're just like that astronaut that loved that other astronaut.

[1014] We never talk about that story.

[1015] Well, wait, we should actually do that one.

[1016] I just remembered it is an attempted murder.

[1017] Excuse me, I'm making notes.

[1018] I'm going to pee while you make a note.

[1019] Okay.

[1020] You just paved something while you're in the bathroom.

[1021] Oh, yeah.

[1022] You don't do that?

[1023] You don't?

[1024] You know, it's my favorite thing in the world.

[1025] This, okay, so this one, I've been waiting, I've been thinking about this one for a long time because when I think of us and murderinos and people who love true crime and people who pay attention to true crime all the time and just ingest it like when you go to your, for me it was like go to your hotel room after doing a terrible stand -up gig in fucking Peoria, Illinois, and you turn on TV and you have your choice of all this shit and you're, going to go to, you know, American justice.

[1026] The American justice.

[1027] Forensic files.

[1028] All that.

[1029] Yeah.

[1030] You're going to get ready for bed while that's on the background because it's fucking soothing and comforting and it's like your friend.

[1031] Yes.

[1032] And it also feels like I think there's that you're watching people take care of a problem.

[1033] I think it helped me. Whereas like I just did stand up.

[1034] I failed miserably.

[1035] People don't like what I have to say.

[1036] Now I'm here and I'm getting a perspective.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] Because actually I'm fine.

[1039] And I, my life is good.

[1040] Love it.

[1041] whatever um this story and this crime is one of the ones that you've seen on all of them yeah because it's not so crazy and it is the murder of girly chew hasen coughed um so let me know when you remember what i'm talking about okay um this was suggested to me uh by my online friend zohy clar who loves the show and i know her from twitter we hung out at a wedding once she's super cool girl and she was like don't forget don't forget the classic and I was just like you're right it's it is such a um it's just one of the ones I think of this murderer's face when I think of do you ever like think like I can't do that one everyone knows that one but then you're like no this one's great and I should do it yeah well but you know I think I changed my mind about that because we've met people in VIP lines who have said why haven't you done ABRC and if we ever give that answer of like, we just felt like people have heard it too much.

[1042] They say, but we want to hear you do it, which I read as, we want to hear you fuck it off.

[1043] And then it's like, yeah, I can fuck that up.

[1044] I can fuck out real good.

[1045] So thanks Zoe for suggesting it.

[1046] And of course, there's an American justice on it.

[1047] If you know or somebody knows, I want, I need American justice.

[1048] There's so many seasons of it.

[1049] But I couldn't find it on like normal YouTube, normal internet channels.

[1050] I couldn't find it.

[1051] It's not on Netflix.

[1052] It's not on anything.

[1053] I guess I'll just go home and look it up on Amazon.

[1054] But I would buy 20 seasons of American justice.

[1055] Absolutely.

[1056] That show is the shit.

[1057] And as we all know, Bill Curtis.

[1058] Bill Curtis is just...

[1059] Whether he's wearing a blazer or a brown leather jacket.

[1060] It doesn't matter.

[1061] I love him.

[1062] He's the original.

[1063] I mean...

[1064] Nightstocker?

[1065] Sorry.

[1066] Okay.

[1067] What have he?

[1068] So the one show that I could find this on was on like, what's that daily motion video channel?

[1069] It was like super obscure and it was a show called Crime Stories, which is a great show.

[1070] I was trying to figure out if it's like Canadian or something because I don't think I've ever heard of crime stories.

[1071] No. And the narrator on crime stories is a man named Bill Courage.

[1072] So like three chairs for Bill Courage holding down the Ford on crime stories.

[1073] all of it all of that sounds like stuff you would write in a tv show to represent a true crime show anyway oh i get it yeah like a fake one yes let's just call him bill courage it's um you know the host bill courage whatever okay bring it to me so this this takes place September 9th 1999 okay here we are here we go 100 miles south of albuquerque new mexico there we are it's an abandoned stretch of highway because you know know all those weird crazy roads outside of any city.

[1074] Oh, I watched Breaking Bad.

[1075] Yeah, you know.

[1076] That lot of shit happens there.

[1077] It's the kind of road, and I don't know if this was accurate to the real place, or if this is just what it all looks like.

[1078] But it's that thing where it's the shot, the B -roll shot was one long highway.

[1079] And then it's shimmery hot down, like in the three -quarters area.

[1080] And there's just like a mesa in the distance.

[1081] Fuck that shit.

[1082] The most I know of that is driving home from Vegas, and it fucking sucks.

[1083] Yes.

[1084] And it's bleak.

[1085] And it's bleak.

[1086] and you can hide a body out there absolutely okay so there's um a guy he is a road worker and he has been he's been like fixing this highway or whatever when he finds a pile of bloody clothes that that look like a young girl's clothes and so um he calls the cops they come and they start looking around nearby the clothes there's suspicious looking duct tape because it's suspicious as a fucking duct tape and your bloody clothes isn't suspicious looking.

[1087] They're like look we can explain all this away clearly you're driving out of here the heat got to you you cut your finger.

[1088] I think errant duct tape.

[1089] Detect tape is suspicious.

[1090] Yeah, duct tape on its own laying on the side of the road scares the living shit out of me. Absolutely.

[1091] This duct tape was in the shape of a like a figure eight.

[1092] So it was duct tape that looked like super suspicious.

[1093] Put together handcuffs.

[1094] no so that poor road worker who i hope to god he wasn't by himself out there because then that's even then an eagle screams in the distance and you're like this is the scariest thing of all time but he grabs all that shit or he calls the cops they come and they find another piece of duct tape nearby that has long black hairs on it oh no so um they start looking into what this could mean and and the police in the beginning in this crime story show we're talking about how they thought it was children's clothing so they were freaking out and like it looked really bad.

[1095] They start looking up a missing person's reports, recent missing person's reports to see if anything compares.

[1096] And it turned out that there was a missing person's report filed for a woman named Gurley Chu Hosenkoff, Hosenkoffed with a tea at the end.

[1097] So she was a Malaysian bank teller, 35 years old, very well -liked, very responsible.

[1098] big you know had a you know a lot of friends at the bank and when she didn't show up for work they immediately knew something is wrong right um because she was super responsible but also because she had recently filed for divorce and her and she had told everyone at the bank my husband has been threatening my life and like she basically told them she was really scared yeah and that her husband wanted to kill her so the second she doesn't show up they immediately call the cops they immediately to, like, take all the action they need to.

[1099] I also think this is just my opinion, but it seems like because she was, she was from Malaysia, so she didn't have, I don't think she had a lot of family here, so I think her friends at the bank were like, if we don't do it, who will do it for her, which God bless them, thank God.

[1100] And I have to say, I really like the name girly.

[1101] That's cute.

[1102] It's just really cute.

[1103] It is.

[1104] But then compared to the horrible things I'm about to talk about, it's awful.

[1105] so um just this this is the all all part of the true crime world uh so they the police go to girlie choose apartment and um they find three damp stains on the carpeting and they find blood stains on her couch and the whole place smells like bleach uh -oh so they're like ding ding ding all red flags um and what they do and they talk about it in this episode of crime and crime story whatever it's called um crime stopper stories crime stories crime stories you know two words that we know it's easy words it's not hard to remember and yet here we are um but they talk about how the best move that the cops made in this entire case was in that moment instead of cutting out a swath of the carpet where they were worried about they pulled the entire carpet out and took it to the lab they never do that they took an apartment apartment's width and length of carpet and they were just like all of it goes yank which is so cool because then they have everything so this was girlie choose new apartment after leaving her husband who when she said she was leaving him went crazy on her told her that he could make her disappear and um when she finally actually got that apartment left their apartment was when she found him loosening the tires on her car oh no she found she found She, like, finds him doing that, runs to the neighbor's house and then goes and is, like, in hiding, essentially.

[1106] So she gets a new apartment.

[1107] The cops know that she would have never let him into that apartment.

[1108] And so they know that when they're looking for trace evidence on that carpeting, that that's going to be a key thing.

[1109] Cool.

[1110] Which is, like, all of that is just, like, cop stuff.

[1111] Love it.

[1112] So one of the main reasons that she filed for divorce, they got married in 1994.

[1113] five okay three three you I mean 1993 that's what I meant 1995 three um they met in the night in the early 90s at sea world how cute how no but not cute I mean also it's bad for orcas but how do you meet someone at sea world hey hey are you going to finish that can I have some of your fish and chips are you going to finish that whale burger um just working just work in the food court at sea world yeah they meet um they get married in 1993 because her husband a man named and i'm not kidding die zen hasen coughed jesus um he is he tells her that he's a geneticist and a doctor and um uh that he is helps people who have cancer he has a very advanced like what do you call it an advanced like serum that can cure cancer and that he can't get it like he had this whole story about it and he actually I don't know if he told her but later on he told people that because he of course he was a con man he was not any of the things that I've said he told people he cured his own cancer and that's how he knew that the serum worked no and that's how he sold it to people who were dying of cancer who he built for thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars so he's an insane person and but he is like a con man extraordinary yeah the cops at one point in this special talk about how he actually at one point joined up with a second con man and con that con man out of thousands of dollars he's fucking kidding yeah so he's like a diabolical lunatic and anyone who's seen this because this is an old and very famous case.

[1114] He really tries to play the part of the of the evil.

[1115] When he's finally in court, he's really kind of trying to do a Richard Murmiras, Charles Manson, like, I'm the evil genius behind all this stuff.

[1116] Why?

[1117] Because he just needs a recognition.

[1118] Yeah.

[1119] So he went to college and he studied like science in college, but he didn't get into med school.

[1120] And that's when it turned.

[1121] So he basically, it turned into this weird con man fantasy life as if if I had gone to med school this is what I would have done and these are the things I'm doing so I'm going to get some cards printed up and tell everybody that I'm a geneticist right and that I have he not only told people he had the cure for cancer but he also made a lot of money and met a lot of women telling them that he had this basically like a fountain of youth serum oh my god and in this special one of the best parts one of his ex -girlfriends who he was by the way in he was engaged to one he was engaged to a couple but he was seeing three other women while he was married to girly chew and that's what she found out that he was basically all over the map with these women and she was just like I'm out of here like go fuck yourself and then he went crazy because he was like oh I thought because you're from malaysia I thought you were going to be subservient and submissive and like not fight me and just take care of business and she was like go fuck yourself yeah um that's not a quote so the girlfriend uh who diesen hasen cough um oh by the way his real name is armando chavez a lot of names happening he made up the name dizen hasen koff because he believed that germans and japanese are the master races which is a very new approach to suit to supremacies um so he made up a name that was an amalgam of both.

[1122] I bet you he owned like Nazi memorabilia or something like so obnoxious or something like that.

[1123] Yeah, probably.

[1124] Yeah, but he's Armando Chavez.

[1125] Like he has no business being in the world of who's the master race.

[1126] Like, buddy, this works against you in every way.

[1127] In his claim of having this anti -aging treatment that also eventually you come to find out that he was also telling people it would make you immortal.

[1128] That's where I'm getting off of this.

[1129] That couldn't train.

[1130] Oh, you were.

[1131] until then?

[1132] Absolutely.

[1133] You were good with bilking cancer patients?

[1134] No, I was, I thought it worked.

[1135] Oh, I said.

[1136] But now I don't think it works.

[1137] Yeah.

[1138] Here's why else you, you won't think it works.

[1139] Okay.

[1140] And this is according to Julie McGuire, who is in this special and she is, she is, she has a story to tell.

[1141] Um, but she immediately, like on the outset, it was like, I have this youth serum and if you, if you do this, you know, it's going to make you, it's going to, she said it's, he said, it stopped cell growth, like entirely, which I don't think would be good for you.

[1142] That's like debt, then your cells are dead.

[1143] Yeah, I think that means you die.

[1144] Yeah.

[1145] But he eventually let her in on his secret, which was that the drug he was giving her was created by aliens to stop cell growth so that they could travel from planet to planet and not have it impact them.

[1146] And, um, and you imagine if you're like her and you were like, here I am, I'm on board with this second, this anti -aging.

[1147] thing.

[1148] Got it.

[1149] And then someone this person's like, let you in him a secret.

[1150] And it's like aliens.

[1151] And you're like, oh, shit.

[1152] Yeah.

[1153] It's almost like, that's when you make that decision.

[1154] And am I, am I just going to go all in on this and like push all my chips into the middle of table?

[1155] Because at this point, I can't be like, I can't.

[1156] Then I look fucking stupid if I'm like, guess what?

[1157] I got out of this thing because he ended up being crazy.

[1158] And all your friends are like, we knew he was crazy.

[1159] Yeah.

[1160] You have to double down on it.

[1161] But you have to remember this.

[1162] You never have to double down.

[1163] You can always get out of it.

[1164] Because think of any friend you have.

[1165] they've always had a worse boyfriend than the boyfriend you're talking about.

[1166] And also, who gives a fuck what anybody thinks?

[1167] You got to get out of that shit and you can't.

[1168] You're allowed fuck -ups in your life and it's okay.

[1169] Even at Julie McGuire's age where she was like, and she didn't actually, when she's like talking about this in this special, she clearly knew he was insane because, you know, I don't think she thought, the way she was saying it anyway, maybe she did.

[1170] But she still went along with it?

[1171] Well, she wanted them beauty treatments, girl.

[1172] there is no magic here except for Botox I have to keep telling you why must I keep telling everyone why must I preach the word but also they found out that his his magic treatment was vitamin B12 and he was making women pay thousands and thousands of dollars for it oh man so he also had fathered a son with a woman in Canada in 1996 these are all the things girly chew was finding out and he was oh yeah engaged to three different women while he was married to her.

[1173] Including hot?

[1174] No, no, no. He's short and he looks like a character actor.

[1175] Did he pretend to be, it's just that, what were they after?

[1176] I think he has.

[1177] Not that, that was a horrible thing to say.

[1178] What was the attraction?

[1179] I think he has that, that sparkly glow of a psychotic person.

[1180] I mean, honestly, they're fascinating.

[1181] Like, this guy's the kind of guy, he was super smart.

[1182] Can someone quote that he has that psychotic?

[1183] He has that sparkly glow of a psychotic person is my favorite.

[1184] When you meet a truly crazy person, it's a breath of fresh air.

[1185] When they're like, I'm not crazy in the way that I need to be hospitalized or medical help, but I'm a diabolical.

[1186] And I believe my own bullshit.

[1187] Yes.

[1188] And I believe that I can trick you.

[1189] Like there's an energy to that.

[1190] And also when con men are trying to con you, you get focused attention.

[1191] Yeah.

[1192] Which lots of people want and don't get.

[1193] So, like, suddenly you have, like, even if it, no matter what the face looks like or the height or the weight or whatever, you're right.

[1194] You have a person that's got, like, kind of like.

[1195] Dialed into your shit.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] I think you hung the moon.

[1198] And suddenly you're like, maybe I did.

[1199] I don't know.

[1200] Give me some of that B12.

[1201] I was kind of wondered if I hung the moon.

[1202] Because I felt special.

[1203] I've always felt special.

[1204] I've always felt like I had this gift.

[1205] So you've got to be careful.

[1206] Okay.

[1207] If people are like, you're really special.

[1208] Yeah.

[1209] That's fucking, that's the biggest red flag of all.

[1210] Because you're fucking not.

[1211] And neither am I None of us are.

[1212] Amen.

[1213] And A -A.

[1214] That's what you learn in.

[1215] A -A.

[1216] Okay.

[1217] So that's when Girlie's like, oh, you're engaged to three other women.

[1218] I've got to go.

[1219] Peace.

[1220] Okay.

[1221] So when the police go to interview Dyson, and I might be pronouncing that slightly wrong, his house is not real, so it's okay.

[1222] It's his idea of what a Japanese name is, which is like, it sounds like a, a, a, bad VCR that you would have bought in 1987.

[1223] I was thinking the exact electronic and old electronic.

[1224] Hi -five that foot.

[1225] You high -fied my foot.

[1226] They go to Dysen's house.

[1227] His house is empty.

[1228] They find out he moved out the day before she, uh, girly chew went missing.

[1229] And they, so they put out an APB for his now.

[1230] Oh, points bulletin.

[1231] I love that.

[1232] Right?

[1233] For his car.

[1234] He's a fake though.

[1235] Also a con man. also a polygamist or whatever you call that a bigamest if you've married tons of people what kind of what kind of car color and make do you think he drove oh god a fucking red transam it was a white isuzu there was no way to it was too obscure but i just thought it would be fun to play a fun guess the car game if we're going that way i would have guessed like Subaru or something for some reason when they said in the special they put out the all -point's bulletin for his white Azuzu, I laughed out loud in my TV room.

[1236] A TV room is separate than the dining and living room.

[1237] I guess I don't know what an Azuzu looks like.

[1238] Well, I was thinking a Zuzu Trooper, which looks like a, like the poor man's Jeep.

[1239] It's just a family car.

[1240] It's, no, it's kind of like a, well, the one I'm thinking of is almost like, I'm going to college and my dad wanted to give me this.

[1241] Okay.

[1242] Okay.

[1243] We don't know what that's like.

[1244] Oh, I have us.

[1245] Okay, so here's When they're searching his place, they find out that he belonged to a UFO Believers Club.

[1246] Okay.

[1247] And so they have to go down to the UFO Believers Club and start interviewing some people.

[1248] That's got to be a fun day.

[1249] This is the thing where I want this special.

[1250] Like, if we start really making the kind of true crime specials that everybody wants, it's you get all those cops together and you're like, so tell us about the UFO Believers Club.

[1251] Tell us about each and every in detail about them.

[1252] Because you know there are some people who were, who were, wonderful and hilarious and brilliant.

[1253] And then, you know, there's some people who are like the people who work out to me. And who want to keep like, I know more.

[1254] I can give you information.

[1255] Those fucking nosy Nellys.

[1256] And then there were some people who are like, join me on Saturn.

[1257] Okay.

[1258] So they go talk to the people.

[1259] And one of the first people they meet is a woman named Linda Henning, who they later find out he was engaged to.

[1260] Of course he was.

[1261] So Linda Hang, they don't think much of her at first.

[1262] Linda Henning, and we all probably know that.

[1263] but if you haven't seen any specials.

[1264] I don't know this one.

[1265] Oh, you don't?

[1266] I don't know this.

[1267] Oh.

[1268] Tell me everything.

[1269] Because you will love Linda Henning.

[1270] I highly recommend that you go back.

[1271] There's video of her talking.

[1272] She is one of those people.

[1273] I can't go back.

[1274] You can't find it.

[1275] There's individual videos of her being interviewed by the news because she got arrested.

[1276] Okay.

[1277] And she is, I don't, I won't diagnose her.

[1278] Do it.

[1279] if it was my mom my mom would be like oh she's she's gone organic i think she might be she might be um it's schizophrenic but she has a lot of those things where she looks like the woman who's the star the stewardess or the air hostess in the airplane her name's julie something with the long hair she's like a 70s 80s actress she looks almost exactly like that woman she's like actress beautiful um big hair you know like and she had she's of course from hollywood she had been a model and then she was a fashion designer now she's in new mexico with her fucking government UFO conspiracies and she is a serious believer so they keep on pulling up these clips of her holding up a drawing that she drew herself going um these are the lizard people that run our government and she's completely serious and seems almost like a newscaster like convincing.

[1280] What is she's right?

[1281] She could be right.

[1282] There's other people that think this.

[1283] It's not just her.

[1284] But she has an intensity and she's also twitchy.

[1285] Oh, no. Yeah.

[1286] So she's got a little bit of that, like, you can see her resetting herself to normalcy that I was enjoying watching.

[1287] You can't take someone seriously who's spouting about aliens and twitching at the same time.

[1288] Yeah.

[1289] Those two things don't go hand in hand.

[1290] I would say this.

[1291] The twitching was subtle, but that was my, you know, know when I I'm collecting all the information so I can do the one woman show about her there will be subtle twitching in it also she so it was her theory is like lizard people run the government and also masons are all lizard people okay which I'm interested in like tell me what you got I see it but all she did was in this thing she had a she had drawn a triangle on a piece of paper and she'd put a circle inside and she went this is the mason symbol oh my And I was just like, no, it's not, actually.

[1292] It's a pyramid with an eye on top of it.

[1293] Is she the one who, like, will describe on the dollar bill, like, what's inside of all what every little thing means?

[1294] And then when you fold it this way, and you see the little picture that comes out.

[1295] Yes.

[1296] I'm fucking down.

[1297] I am down and ready for that.

[1298] Get me a beer.

[1299] Like, let's fucking.

[1300] This is how the lizard people are communicating through our money.

[1301] Where it's like, well, you can't.

[1302] Talk to me about it.

[1303] Fold it up symbols on money.

[1304] What?

[1305] You're stupid.

[1306] Yeah.

[1307] And then what are you going to do?

[1308] Then fold it and show it to me. Okay, why don't we just talk?

[1309] All right.

[1310] So, UFO Believers Club.

[1311] I'm calling it that.

[1312] I don't know what the actual name is.

[1313] Oh, okay.

[1314] But I mean, it was people got together because they were like, this is real.

[1315] No, I dig it.

[1316] When she joined the UFO Believers Club and then Dyson joined it as well, she was engaged to be married to a different person.

[1317] She immediately broke up with him and they started this love affair with Dysen.

[1318] They bonded over their passionate belief in the impending alien takeover of us.

[1319] our planet and chicken wings and and their love of chicken wings i want to i want to put that into the script and chicken wings wait you like chicken wings i love my god i've never met anyone that likes chicken wait ranch or blue cheese oh my god it has to be blue cheese yeah marry me okay um so they go to interview linda henning okay and because they're everyone in the ufo believers group is like, oh, Daya -Zan's really good friends with Linda Henning and this other guy, Bill, they'll know, go talk to them.

[1320] Well, Linda Henning at her house, it seems totally normal, calm, kind of low -key, but very quickly and start beginning to talk to these investigators, she gives Dysen an alibi for the night the girly two went missing and basically tried to tell them she was with him all night except for one hour.

[1321] and they're like okay well that's it's a bit advanced for this conversation so later on they go to bring her in for questioning and she gives when she goes over questioning she gives them hair sample a DNA sample um but then when they ask about dizen she kind of acts like she doesn't know him that well she can't she's mispronouncing his name um calling him d or doc instead of his name because she says she doesn't ought to pronounce it which i relate to um But she claims she has no idea where he is and that she's never met Girlie Chew doesn't know where she is, doesn't know anything about her.

[1322] But then when they talk to Linda's coworkers, they find out that she's told them her and Dysent are about to get married.

[1323] So when the police go back around to talk to Linda and ask her some follow -up questions at her home, she's not there.

[1324] And they're calling her saying, go ahead, give us a call she's avoiding them so then they start surveilling her because they're like what's going on she's checked into a hotel and then she moves hotels and then checks into another hotel and she's basically like trying not to be found or seen but what I love about that is that like it makes it sound like and the cops were following her as she did it I'm just like we see you yes you just went from a days into a motel sex this is not good criminal behavior um okay so they search her car Oh, sorry, when they go into her, they get a search warrant, they go into her house.

[1325] Her house is filled with UFO conspiracy art that she has made herself.

[1326] Oh, I bet it's gorgeous.

[1327] You know what it, it reminds me of, you know when you're in like high school chemistry class and you start doodling and you're like, wait, I'm good at drawing.

[1328] Yes.

[1329] That's what it all looks like.

[1330] It's like kind of like, it looks like women in catsuits, lizards with half -year.

[1331] human faces, but it's all like in a blue ball point pen.

[1332] And she thinks it's important too.

[1333] Like, it's someone's communicating with her through it.

[1334] She very much believes that this is real.

[1335] And it is, it's you can tell that it is a big problem for her.

[1336] Like it's a concern and it's not, it's not fucking around.

[1337] It's overwhelming.

[1338] And it's not, yeah, she's like, she believes that our planets being taken over by aliens.

[1339] She's one of the only people that knows.

[1340] It's classic schizophrenic, like paranoid schizophrenia, but I won't but I won't label it but I like to theorize about people's mental status.

[1341] That's fun.

[1342] I just said status like I was British.

[1343] I don't know why what's happening but yeah she's her house is filled with this art and also she's got a lot of colored art sand in her garage which is really odd.

[1344] They showed a picture of her garage and it's like you know that thing where you're like you know what I'm going to get into?

[1345] Yeah.

[1346] I'm going to into art sand.

[1347] I'm going to fill bottles with different colored sand.

[1348] I'm going to sell it at flea market yeah so but it's it's like a bunch of crates full of it so she didn't just get one kit no she was like into it if you're really gonna get into it you have to spend five hundred dollars on it that you have to go to joanne fabrics all day yeah yeah you have to make a problem so I did that once with cross with needlepoint did you really I mean I didn't spend that much money on it but I was like I'm gonna get into this I have to no I don't I want same with me and paint by numbers oh that's fun I'm going back do it I think paper number here's my only problem if I'm going to sit at home and do nothing I'm going to do that A watching TV and be laying down I'm not going to do a project Why?

[1349] Because I love to lay down That's my project.

[1350] What's a project you could do I lay down?

[1351] Sleep Dream?

[1352] Catch up on sleep Have some dreams Okay so they go to her house They find all this crazy fucking shit that makes them go She's not your average member of the UFO Believers Club.

[1353] She's taking the UFO Believers Club and she's in like a Harrison Ford movie level crisis with the UFO believers where it's like impending doom.

[1354] Very sad and awful.

[1355] Sorry, I laughed.

[1356] No, I'm sorry.

[1357] Also, the art is terrible, so it's just...

[1358] I'm sorry, I laugh.

[1359] There's a lot of elements.

[1360] Wishing her well.

[1361] Okay, go on.

[1362] No, you don't have to.

[1363] She did bad things.

[1364] Oh, good, good, good.

[1365] Then they search her car.

[1366] They find out it's just been washed and that there's a seat for having her tires balanced and the cops immediately think the area on that highway um outside of albuquerque where they found girly choose bloody clothes was all crazy bumpy roads while road workers were out there and if she drove out there she would have to get her tires rebalanced when she came back so they basically uh the the more they look into stuff they find out that when they look at Linda Henning's bank records, Linda Henning, who had claimed to have not know Girlie Chew and never met her and know nothing about her, had actually switched banks and had started going to Gurley Chew's branch of her bank.

[1367] And Gurley had been her teller at that bank several times.

[1368] So she was like spying on her.

[1369] She was up in her business big time and absolutely knew who she was.

[1370] Uh -oh.

[1371] Don't lie to the cops, ding -dong.

[1372] you fucking lizard you're the lizard person I mean just in general especially when you're going to be that obvious about it if you were your bank teller don't fucking lie to the cops about it well also I guess it's different now because there are cameras everywhere now and stuff but it's just that when you see those people who the people who make up crimes to do and thinking they're going to get away with it because they think they're smarter than cops where it's like you're so not you're like one of the most stupid people we know but you think you're smarter than all like the people who think they're smarter than the cops and can get away with shit are the most idiotic people yes also that makes our sorry quick sidebar my friend bridger winniger and i went and saw a movie called american animals did you see the imposter that documentary it's the same director it's really fucking good and it's a true story about which one uh of these guys that tried to steal these really rare valuable bond books from a college and they were like college age themselves nerds it's a really good movie you have to go see it everyone has to go see it okay anyway back to this piece of paper um so then and i'm not sure exactly where this happened in the timeline but i'm throwing it in here our friend julie mcguire who was getting the beauty treatments and was told that she was going to live forever one of his girlfriends called the police because and told them that when she uh when girlie who was missing, Dysen told her he was livid about that he was going to have to pay Gurley $60 ,000 in their divorce settlement and he was like out of his mind, livid about it and he said that...

[1373] Motive.

[1374] What?

[1375] Sorry.

[1376] Motive.

[1377] Yes.

[1378] I thought you said noted.

[1379] I was like, all right.

[1380] You're listening?

[1381] Good.

[1382] He actually said to Julie that that Gurley would never see a dime of that money that she was supposed to be getting because she was going to disappear and don't don't do right and then julie said to him what are you talking about people like you can't make people disappear the cops find them like that yeah yeah and he said to her not if they're dissected shut up dude which is also but also that's such a weird anyway and it's also not then she's like no yeah also if they're dissected right and just in general it's you're not going to get away with it but anyway we love julie mcguire because she's like guess what that guy was my boyfriend but this is bad bad bad totally good for her so then the lab comes back with some results on that full apartment carpet uh that they pulled out of girlie's apartment um they had small amounts of blood evidence um that they had found and this was the reason they were like the they would have just cut out this strip that was just those three blood stains because that blood was girly chews.

[1383] But when they pull the whole carpet, they find blood stains and the blood belongs to Linda Henning.

[1384] What?

[1385] And they weren't expecting it either.

[1386] So they're just like, holy shit.

[1387] So they, now she's indicted for murder.

[1388] Oh, my God.

[1389] Dysen -Hausenkoft is nowhere to be found.

[1390] No one knows where he is.

[1391] Then they, police get a tip from one of his neighbors saying she had just gotten a call where he threatened her and then hung up.

[1392] and so the cops are like dial star 69 and so she does and yes and it turns out he's in South Carolina what so the cops go arrest him yes so the in when I was in high school when whatever it was ATT or whoever did it came out with that package where you could get call waiting call forwarding and star 69 it changed lives yeah it changed everything it was a really big deal you couldn't print call anymore Yes.

[1393] Do you want to hear it?

[1394] Yes.

[1395] Celebrity Secret?

[1396] Yes.

[1397] When I very first moved to town in 1994 or five, four, I had a big crush on Jack Black who was in our social circle.

[1398] Yeah.

[1399] And one time I called, somebody gave me his phone number.

[1400] I don't know why.

[1401] And I called it.

[1402] And then when he answered, I hung up.

[1403] You did not.

[1404] And he fucking stars.

[1405] No, he did it.

[1406] And I said.

[1407] Did you know that he was doing that?

[1408] or did you just answer the phone like it was normal?

[1409] I answered the phone because I think I was expecting a call from somewhere else.

[1410] Okay.

[1411] And he didn't think that he had Star 69, so you just picked it up.

[1412] I picked it up.

[1413] And then he goes, did you just call me?

[1414] And I went, it was a mistake.

[1415] And then I acted mad and was like, yeah, it was a mistake.

[1416] And then I just hung up.

[1417] That's the perfect, when you act mad, like you're annoyed with someone else.

[1418] Yeah.

[1419] And what did he do?

[1420] I don't think he knew it was me. I waited.

[1421] We weren't that.

[1422] We didn't.

[1423] I didn't know him that well at the time.

[1424] So I just, like, held my breath and waited it out and then never, never heard back.

[1425] And then the next time, ever since then, you've been weird.

[1426] He's like, she always weird around me. I don't know what I did to piss her off.

[1427] No, no, no. I think then we got to know each other after that.

[1428] And he was around.

[1429] And it was that kind of thing where I was like, maybe I did call your house and hang up.

[1430] Maybe I did.

[1431] Maybe that's how I expressed my intense love, Jack Black, who talk about, I don't think he's psychotic.

[1432] But the first time I met him, it was like the.

[1433] the whole rest of the room went away.

[1434] He's so dynamic.

[1435] Well, he's also so talented.

[1436] It was like they had just done Tenacious D. Yeah.

[1437] You know, three songs.

[1438] Everyone's like, who are these people?

[1439] And then just to talk to him in person, he's just got charisma coming out.

[1440] Aware of his telephone.

[1441] It's private.

[1442] This has been Jack Black Corner.

[1443] I don't know why I'm talking about this.

[1444] I'm trying to tell a story.

[1445] Okay.

[1446] So they go to, they go bring him out of South Carolina.

[1447] his perfect hiding place star 69 him out jack clock plays one of the cops that pulls him out of south carolina um he had only been on the lamb for three weeks already living with a woman in well he was in south carolina this what i'm talking about you got it's like everyone we all need group therapy to like get ourselves up that we don't need guys like this yeah and all or just be a guy like that like what do you do to get to be the person that can be on the lamp first of all all this stuff to do of like avoiding the police yeah and then you kick up a relationship with some stranger but there's time for a little you're you make time i think that's what that's that's just turdur just went and then brought that can of wine right up to her lips mm -hmm tell me about it girl tell me about being on the lamp and in relationships all right sorry so they find when he's arrested he has Gurley Chew's address book and a piece of her jewelry two things that she had not left at her house when she left him two things that she had on her person so they were like this is you know evidence yeah they also in the place where he was staying in South Carolina they found guns and they found a steam cleaner with human blood in it trace evidence of human blood You stupid idiot.

[1448] So they bring him back to New Mexico.

[1449] He's charged with making interstate threats because that's the only concrete evidence that they have.

[1450] They don't, nothing ties him to the murder.

[1451] To hold him.

[1452] But they have them, yeah, they can hold him for getting Star 69.

[1453] We're calling his neighbor and being like, Hey, don't tell anyone.

[1454] Hang up.

[1455] All right.

[1456] So they start looking around the area, going back to search, because they're the basically now they need the body girlie choose body they have to find what has happened to her so that they can tie him in because they're like this guy's they like him for it as cops like to say he's good for it but they have no evidence so when they go out to that desolate highway outside of fucking Albuquerque the area on the sides of the highway is are is dotted with mines abandoned mine shafts.

[1457] And they said there's so many out there and some of them are so deep that you throw a rock down and you never hear anything.

[1458] What?

[1459] So like Oh, what are at the bottom of those?

[1460] Right.

[1461] So the police tried to search some of them near where the clothes were found.

[1462] But after a while, they're just like, well, we didn't find anything and you can't, they're not even mapped.

[1463] There are so many minds out there.

[1464] Yeah.

[1465] Which I just said, that idea of that type of police were like, that's nauseatingly.

[1466] Yeah.

[1467] Just endless searching.

[1468] Just the thought that you could throw something down one of those and it'll never be seen again is like it makes me feel empty.

[1469] Yeah.

[1470] It's very bad.

[1471] Although if you had say you wrote out a story about an embarrassing thing you did to Jack Black, you could ball that up and throw it down it to mine and not say it on a podcast.

[1472] But what's the fun in that?

[1473] I once slept, can I want me to your eyes just lit up?

[1474] meet me here in my shame spiral.

[1475] I'll give you one.

[1476] I'll give you a good one.

[1477] My friend and I called each other.

[1478] We were on the phone with each other.

[1479] I just dumped a dude.

[1480] I was like 19.

[1481] I just like broken up with a guy.

[1482] And we were on the phone.

[1483] And I was like, let's listen to his voicemail.

[1484] Like his outgoing voicemail like was our song.

[1485] And I was like, look, he changed his song.

[1486] Let's call.

[1487] And you can listen.

[1488] So we called and we listened to the voicemail.

[1489] And then we were like, oh my God, I can't believe me. Like, blah, blah, blah.

[1490] I just feel bad.

[1491] and like I just don't like I wasn't attracted to him like just like talking talking shit and then it was like your message has been sent no I forgot to hang up after we listened to his fucking outgoing voicemail how awful is that wait can I just ask and you don't have to answer honestly but were you on drugs no I was not on drugs just stupid just 19 people don't appreciate how these days no one uses the phone ever?

[1492] Well, it's the thing of texting the wrong person.

[1493] Yes.

[1494] It's texting the person you're thinking of.

[1495] Saving their thing from three months ago.

[1496] Yeah.

[1497] Embarrassing thing.

[1498] But, God, there was so much bad behavior around answering machines in my past.

[1499] Also, one time I was super stone in my apartment and I was listening to my messages and my sister left me such a long message that halfway through, I forgot it was a message and I started fighting with her.

[1500] And I got really mad.

[1501] I was like, stop talking over me. What are you doing?

[1502] And I was like, there's this whole thing.

[1503] And then it was like, all right, talk to you later.

[1504] Beep.

[1505] And then I was like, oh, my God.

[1506] Send us your embarrassing stories to my favorite murder at Gmail.

[1507] What horrible thing have you done on an answering machine?

[1508] Yeah, around phones, around texting, around all of them.

[1509] And you can make the modern, but the, I guess texting ones are good.

[1510] Yeah, modern is fine.

[1511] And, yeah, go ahead.

[1512] Okay.

[1513] My favorite murder at Gmail.

[1514] Dot com.

[1515] Dot com.

[1516] Okay, go ahead.

[1517] so and then guess what happened tell me I'm the suspense I'm just trying to re okay okay okay so they get more evidence back so it's this trace evidence that they're getting off of this humongous piece of carpet and what they uh they find a single hair from dyson on that carpet that's it a single hair but they're like okay this is enough so we know he was there it's not gonna hold up in court yeah but now we know we've got a time to it okay but they also find colored sand glitter oh my god and dyed animal dyed animal hair and gray human hair so they're like other people were in that apartment yeah so it wasn't just girly chew wasn't just dizean wasn't even just Linda and then they found lizard skin and then they find the entire Bush family photo album that's a big theory that the Bush family are lizard people Oh Mm -hmm Pass it on, please.

[1518] They Okay, so then they find a picture that Linda has drawn in Linda's house.

[1519] They find a bunch of love letters between Linda and Dysan.

[1520] But then they also find a drawing of a warrior queen dressed for battle against aliens.

[1521] Let me guess that's her.

[1522] Yeah, in a letter to Dizzen and in the picture, she's wearing like, it's like it's one of the cat she looks like cat woman essentially but with like slightly different decorations okay and she's holding a sword in the ceiling of Linda Henning's garage at her house they find a ninja sword with blood on it and they it's not enough blood they couldn't pull DNA but they could tell it had been cleaned and that there was trace amounts of blood also the investigators were like a samurai sword is a warrior sword for like war battle a ninja sword is for assassins so it's smaller thinner blade I don't know much about it so I'm not going to say anything right get the sword people mad at me but but then they go okay so this is here let's relook at the shirt that we found that belonged to girly chew that had blood on it and start comparison comparing comparison no comparacizing Comparasize it Did she wipe the blade off with the shirt?

[1523] That the stab wounds were from that sword That is what they were testing to try to see And as they do that And they're re -examining Girlie Chew's shirt That they had found The lab finds Dizan Hosenkov's blood and saliva On one shoulder of the shirt So now they have evidence That he was there when Girlie Chew was murdered Oh my God, poor girly And the other person that is there, because they go back to the UFO group and then we interview them, yep, and they find out from them that there was a third person in Dysen and Linda's little group, and it's a guy named Bill Miller.

[1524] He was a member of the UFO group.

[1525] He was an older man. He was a survivalist and an outdoorsman.

[1526] And the three of them, Linda, Bill and Dijan, used to drive to the UFO believers meetings together.

[1527] and they also did stuff on the weekends and they show this picture.

[1528] I bet they were the most boring people to hang out with.

[1529] Well, I bet the conversation was hard to follow.

[1530] They seemed like the kind of people where you were just like guys, we were just talking about movies and now we're back into this alien takeover shit.

[1531] Or even like, I was following your alien takeover shit, but this is like, what?

[1532] Were warrior princesses?

[1533] This is crazy.

[1534] How about we do one weird topic per car ride?

[1535] You can't just pick a bunch of them.

[1536] Yeah, don't just list off.

[1537] Linda?

[1538] Linda, hold on.

[1539] Linda, it's usually you.

[1540] Linda, you keep switching topics.

[1541] There's a picture of the three of them at, like, it looks like they're at the river together.

[1542] Oh, my God.

[1543] And they look so fucking normal.

[1544] And it's that is another wave that I got of like, I think this is personally for me, the appeal of true crime.

[1545] These are the people that live next door to you.

[1546] Oh, my God.

[1547] These are the people that are standing at the river, taking a fucking picture.

[1548] And meanwhile, they have kidnapped, murdered, and hid in the body of a woman.

[1549] Oh, my God.

[1550] It's just so goddamn sinister, the banality of evil.

[1551] Look it up.

[1552] Okay.

[1553] So, okay, so it turns out that Dysen had told Linda that he was a 7 ,000 -year -old space alien, that it had been on the planet since before these newer aliens showed up.

[1554] Okay.

[1555] And the newer aliens were the ones that are trying to take over.

[1556] And he was actually here put on the planet.

[1557] But he's a good guy.

[1558] he's the good alien that was here to keep it from happening okay and he said the only way to keep these new aliens from taking over is to kill their queen and do you know who the queen is no the queen is his wife girly she took advantage of her kind of crazy brain a hundred percent oh my god which is the classic con man thing it's classic con man of what's your weakness what's the what's the thing that that's got you all turned around oh me too i can't believe i'm just like you me too me too we're a team.

[1559] Oh, that's so awful.

[1560] It's very sad and very crazy.

[1561] So he's like, he's high level con man psychopath, or he doesn't give a shit.

[1562] So she wouldn't have killed Girlie if she didn't think that she was like, she needed to do it.

[1563] Yeah.

[1564] To rid this planet of the alien takeover.

[1565] Oh my God.

[1566] Yes.

[1567] And she also, well, but there's more to it.

[1568] Okay, so the trial starts.

[1569] So they have enough to bring him to trial.

[1570] Okay.

[1571] And when he goes to make his plea, he surprises everybody and pleads guilty and in this special they talk about how New Mexico had just put someone to death and they think that that while he was being held he was like oh shit that could happen to me so he was just like fine you got me but he would not tell them where girly chew's body was he says that he and a man named Bill Miller who's the third guy from the UFO Believers Club they did it and that Linda Henning had nothing to do with it He said that he didn't even, that Bill Miller wanted to kill a person, that he was excited to do it.

[1572] He'd always wanted to hunt a human being and that he didn't even have to pay him to help kill his wife.

[1573] Fuck.

[1574] Yes.

[1575] Then Linda Henning's cellmate comes forward.

[1576] Oh.

[1577] And she says that Linda, when she just went up to Linda and was like, what did you do with that woman's body?

[1578] and without words Linda made a gesture indicating that they had eaten her This is the craziest story I've ever heard It's beyond How have I never watched this one?

[1579] It's also you have to watch it because You have to see this guy kind of in action He's that like when he's doing the perp walk He's laughing really loud Like he's doing those things where he knows Everything is a decision being made About what like the impact of it's going to be He sounds like he'd been a good cult leader Yes I think 100 % Okay.

[1580] I mean, he's thousands of dollars.

[1581] If you have leukemia, you have to be pretty good.

[1582] The conman has to be pretty good to convince you to spend, like, all the rest of your money on a, on a cancer curing, like, that's crazy.

[1583] So she, mine's eating them.

[1584] But she, I mean, that's just what that woman said.

[1585] Yeah.

[1586] Okay.

[1587] And it could have been, who knows what it meant.

[1588] Uh, Dizan Hassankov gets sentenced to life in prison.

[1589] God.

[1590] But they, in getting him to agree to plea guilty, the death sentence got taken off the table.

[1591] Linda goes to trial.

[1592] Linda Henning denies all involvement in Gurley's murder.

[1593] She says, quote, and this is one of the videos that you can watch, and this is one of those ones, where she keeps Twitch resetting every third sentence.

[1594] I'm innocent.

[1595] I've never done anything to cause the death of a two -legged or four -legged creature.

[1596] it's always been my belief from day one that the blood was planted I wasn't there and then she also says in every past life I've been murdered so what am I up for now?

[1597] The death penalty like isn't that ironic Alanis Morissette Oh honey You're fucking bad shit She's cray When she went to trial they had the death penalty on the table For her way Yeah And then her friend testifies and this woman's testimony is in this special, so I'm sure you can see it somewhere.

[1598] She says that Linda told her that she, that Linda had been appointed the queen of the world and that it was her responsibility to defend the world from other queens who were trying to take over from, they're coming from other planets to take over.

[1599] If your friend said that to you over like, mimosas.

[1600] I'd just be like, you fucking nut, anyway, I'm going out of town for a while.

[1601] Do you want to stay at my house?

[1602] with my four -legged animals or two -legged animals whatever I'm almost positive that when I wouldn't do stuff like say chores around the house my mom would call me the queen of the world but I might be rewriting that just because it's so funny but the idea that you would turn you'd turn to your friend be like look I gotta tell you something I know I know things have been weird lately but I'm the queen of the world not America the whole fucking planet oh that icy chill you'd get and you're like I need to turn my friend over to the hospital.

[1603] Yes.

[1604] How are we going to do this?

[1605] Yes.

[1606] I'm going to back away.

[1607] Hey, you know where they have a great froyo place?

[1608] At the psych ward, the hospital.

[1609] Follow me. They have the best frozen yogurt, but you have to commit yourself to a 40 or eight -hour holes.

[1610] Exactly.

[1611] But it'll be worth it.

[1612] Yeah.

[1613] I'll just, and then I crush up some fucking anti -psychotics into her pro -yo.

[1614] Here's the other thing, too.

[1615] If you think you're the queen of the world, and I mean in this way where you feel like you have to.

[1616] kill other people because you have to defend the world yeah don't take that all on by yourself commit yourself to a 48 -hour cycle and figure out what's actually going on get some other voices in there get some get some get some uh do you think i'm the queen of the world no no no oh are we're doing no are we are we fighting now i knew you didn't think i was the queen of the world i do think elvis is an alien but that's a come i'm not going to kill anyone over it do you think he's the king of the world Elvis is the king all right okay let's focus please we gotta get through this I'm the one that put my paper all the way down but we need to focus okay this is a four hour episode it really is so so then Dysen Hosenkoff comes to testify at Linda Henning's trial and it's the full show he's grown out his nails which he knows is the grossest thing a man can do he's smiling like a lunatic he's just got that thing where it's like it's very charles it's it's like poor man's charles manson yeah it sounds like it um and he's talking he does a little speech about how he hopes that girly suffered more than anyone on the planet like he does this whole speech about her murder that's so horrible but you he's doing it with this weird smile and you're just like this is all dumb it's corny it's like over the top um but he still maintains that linda heading had nothing to do with the murder.

[1617] And he said that he says that he planted Linda's blood in Gurley's apartment to throw off investigators.

[1618] Well, investigators are like, yeah, that doesn't throw anybody off.

[1619] It's evidence.

[1620] It leads to us directly to you.

[1621] And also what they honestly think it was is they think he was setting Linda Henning up for this murder.

[1622] They think he was trying to lay that out.

[1623] And then it was like he got caught and it was like it was out of his hands.

[1624] Which is even sadder because when Linda Hedding talks about Dizan, even after her arrest, she's clearly still in love with him.

[1625] Oh, no. Yeah, she thinks he's amazing.

[1626] She thinks he's the greatest.

[1627] It's so nuts.

[1628] She's convicted of first -degree murder and kidnapping, but she doesn't get the death penalty.

[1629] She gets life in prison.

[1630] And at the time, it was the most extensive forensic investigation in New Mexico history.

[1631] What fuck's sake.

[1632] How have we never heard of this?

[1633] It's so crazy.

[1634] Bill Miller, the third.

[1635] party he was no charges were ever brought against him a grand jury found that there was not enough evidence to charge him well i don't like him i don't either and he doesn't seem like a nice person i don't like his profile in the special i sawed a couple times he looks like somebody that would yell at you at like outside of best buy yeah yeah uh and that is the that's a horrible murder of girly chew fuck dude thank you for thank you for that I mean thank you and really thank crime stories for really letting me retell their story because that's what happened and thank you Zoe Clark for reminding me of this I feel like I've seen at least three episodes on this that's crazy yeah because it's like fodder it's like perfect you know crime show fodder it's got everything and it makes me want to join a UFO Believers Club.

[1636] Like, what's going on?

[1637] Let's do it.

[1638] Okay.

[1639] Just to open up our social circle.

[1640] What if we accidentally join a cult?

[1641] It'd be good for the podcast.

[1642] It would be.

[1643] People are like, get out.

[1644] Then they rescue us.

[1645] Aw.

[1646] That'd be so fun.

[1647] That'd be so nice of them.

[1648] All right.

[1649] Fucking hooray.

[1650] What's the thing that's been making you happy lately?

[1651] Well, uh, Nico Case's new album is called Hell On.

[1652] It just came out.

[1653] Cool.

[1654] it's so fucking good great it's but she's always perfect i think she's one of those people that suffers from the fact that she from when she first started going when she was doing like nico case and her boyfriends and her first couple projects she she's always been so like 10 out of 10 stars perfect that like it's almost like she doesn't get appreciated enough anymore that's how i feel about there's never like this transcendent one because they're all like that it's every song she writes you're like how did you think of that lyric this is the best tune i've ever heard and your voice makes me want to cry it's just my favorite that's amazing also Courtney Barnett has a new album out I love her called Tell Me How You Really Feel and it is amazing and it's such a good album as well one of her songs the chorus of it is men are afraid that women will laugh at them women are afraid that men will kill them that's the oh dear it's such I'm not sure what the I can't remember what the song is called but it's such a good album yeah it's really good Okay.

[1655] Yeah.

[1656] Mine is, so I'm trying to get my fucking brain wrapped around, like, money matters and, like, dealing with money and, like, what to do with money and, like, where do you put in it?

[1657] If it's not under your mattress, like, you know.

[1658] So there's a podcast about it, turns out.

[1659] Oh, that's good.

[1660] Yeah.

[1661] And there's one that I found called Her Money Matters by Jen Hemphill, that she just interviews money experts, but in a way, but it's for women and it's it makes it makes a lot of sense and every episode is a different topic so you can find the topics that speak to you and so far it's what you're curious about yeah so it's really good and that sounds great yeah it's simple it makes it really simple you know that's really smart too because it's like Oprah did that with Susie Ormond where it's like no women you have to you have to keep your eye on it and you have to be business people yeah it's important and so the topics are like stuff about debt and being scared of money and how to have emotional not have emotional it's it's everything so if you're like but i don't want to think about money there's like an episode about that so that's great you have to do it i see you're looking at me i see you looking at me george i see you look i think you're the queen of the world and i think you're gray with money and i think you have no problems i mean because here's the thing about money i think women there's storylines of like would the women be shop and storylines of like whatever I'm upset so I have to go shopping or all these things that like you get told that almost like it's like you're playing a part.

[1662] Yeah.

[1663] Instead of like, no, go be a fucking business person.

[1664] Well, there's also Jen Cisarro who wrote, um, you are a badass.

[1665] It's you are a badass.

[1666] She also now is one about you are a badass at making money.

[1667] Oh good.

[1668] And it's, you know, it's directed to women, but it's for everyone.

[1669] But it also is around those things of like, she, she talks about like, what does money mean to you?

[1670] Like, write the first five things down.

[1671] And it's like based on when you were.

[1672] a kid all that shit so like when i was a kid we used to go go in grocery shopping was called let's go bounce a check because we had no fucking money and i thought we were going to get chased down in the street and like arrested so like your your your emotional attachment to money is so deep and it affects everything that's right so just you can get a hold of it as an adult woman and and make it about make it work for you yes and you should and you deserve to and you'll feel so smart you'll feel really good about yourself so that's awesome check those out oh you know what i want can i just say one more this is not uh it's not a fucking array but it's it's almost just more of a something just something to put out there because there was a couple things on twitter uh last week and it was a couple things that were related to people talking to people who didn't like our podcast and and one of them was a really well -written kind of analytical thread about what she thinks about what the podcast means Why are you reading this shit?

[1673] No, it's just, it came up.

[1674] Okay.

[1675] And the other one was somebody who was upset because they heard somebody on another podcast, not liking our podcast.

[1676] And actually adding the person and adding us and then being like, this broke my heart and I think this.

[1677] And I just want to say this.

[1678] First of all, I know that both of those things came from love and they were trying to like communicate like, we care about you and whatever.

[1679] But we don't, that's fine if people, we know that this podcast is not for everybody.

[1680] and we're not interested in converting people who don't like us.

[1681] We don't need to do that and we're fine with it.

[1682] So we certainly don't want to hear about it when it's happening.

[1683] But on top of that, you don't need to feel like you have to change that situation or convince anybody of anything.

[1684] Like we have our little community and we're doing great and we're having a great time.

[1685] I think what's so great about our little community is that it's filled with people who like, like, we're each other's.

[1686] allies in a thing that not everyone is into and we don't need to convince people.

[1687] Yeah, and they're not and that's why we like each other so much.

[1688] Exactly.

[1689] We're the ones who are into it.

[1690] And it's like from the beginning when people would be like, oh, you have vocal fry or whatever.

[1691] It's like, then don't fucking listen to the podcast.

[1692] We don't give a shit.

[1693] Like if you don't like it, if somebody doesn't like it, you don't have to convince them of anything.

[1694] You can be like, okay, cool, the end.

[1695] And also I think the person who was adding the person who was on a podcast I would like to say this I don't know who the person was and I don't have the podcast but especially if it was a woman pause on your need to correct or tell someone they can't say something because for me all I've got when I started stand up all I did was criticize people and say what I hated and say I didn't like something that's your that person's right to do yeah they get to have a critical thought this is a very popular thing right now that like criticizing popular culture is what most podcasts are all about.

[1696] If people want to do that and say, hey, I don't like this, they can.

[1697] And I stand by that.

[1698] And especially if it's a woman going, hey, I don't like this thing, do not correct them.

[1699] Do not tell them they don't get to say that.

[1700] It's just like, think of it in that way of like all these things can exist simultaneously.

[1701] People don't have to get along.

[1702] This is not a theme wedding.

[1703] It all doesn't have to go together.

[1704] you can have all these different likes and things and the end the only the person the only person that we need to convince to like us is paul holes is christie tegan and paul's and everyone else those are our top but don't say that because people have already harassed chrissey teagan because she was like i like true crime podcast what should i listen she asked for it okay but i mean we're not relaunching that fucking because i watch that wave go where I was like any time that happens I'm like please end it as soon as possible yeah what we want to say is we fucking love you guys we love you guys you guys fight our fights for us and we appreciate that so much I love when someone's me on Instagram and I don't need to say anything because fucking 10 rad murderinas are like fuck you and here's why yeah well I never worry about that shit because there's always somebody that comes in and it's just usually in a really funny way they're just like yeah whatever dude um so don't we're saying is we're so fucking lucky that we have this community and we don't need the fucking haters and the alien and the alien lizard robot people like we've got each other and that's a lot we're great what's that from got each other and that's a what is that from got to hold on to what we wait no yeah is it we got each other and that's a lot Don't sue us Bondo Thanks for listening You guys You're the best Stay sexy And don't get murdered Goodbye Goodbye Elvis Elvis You want a cookie Yeah boy Yeah Yeah Yeah