Cillian Murphy

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm picky fucking bloonders, and I'm joined by another fucking peeky bloander.

[2] You are, what's his name?

[3] Oh, boy.

[4] What's his name?

[5] Character name.

[6] Killian Murphy.

[7] Well, we didn't research this enough.

[8] I've forgotten all the characters.

[9] I'm Tom.

[10] I'm Tom.

[11] Tom Shelby.

[12] I'm Thomas Shelby.

[13] And I'm Gray Shelby.

[14] And you're Gray Shelby.

[15] And we have a very special.

[16] Special guest today, Killian Murphy.

[17] Boy, did we fall in love with them?

[18] It's going to fade out.

[19] We love Kellyan Murphy so much.

[20] We tried to play the theme song.

[21] Maybe it worked.

[22] Maybe it didn't.

[23] We tried for like 20 minutes.

[24] If you didn't like it, sue us.

[25] Also, if you wrote that song, sue us.

[26] Okay?

[27] Please don't sue us.

[28] Everyone sue us.

[29] Listen, Peaky Blinders, we're absolutely upset.

[30] with peeky blinders but we like gilliam murphy long before that batman begins yes inception he's so sultry oh he is also more playful than we were expecting yeah because he is such a good dramatic actor good brooder yeah we've got a new season of peekie blinders coming down the pipe it's out june 10th it's the sixth and final season so listen get watching now if you've not seen peekie blinders available on Netflix.

[31] Oh, I'm so jealous of you.

[32] Oh, I'm jealous of you.

[33] We're going to counter Sue you.

[34] I'm Jerry.

[35] So listen, start now.

[36] And then by the time it comes out on June 10th, you're going to be just at a fervor.

[37] You're going to be at a lather.

[38] You'll be in a deep lather of excitement for season six.

[39] This was a blast.

[40] Killian is fun and tremendously talented.

[41] So please enjoy Killian fucking Murphy.

[42] That was in a barrow and the barry and the slum.

[43] Sue us in court.

[44] His shadow is cast wherever he stands.

[45] We'll lose our houses to play this song.

[46] Okay, stop.

[47] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

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[50] He's an object to be.

[51] He's an out of turn.

[52] Good afternoon.

[53] Is that what it is?

[54] Well, it's evening here, yeah.

[55] Evening.

[56] Oh, this is crack -ass early for us, 10 a .m. Apologies.

[57] It's embarrassing for us.

[58] Where are you at?

[59] Are you in England or Ireland?

[60] I'm in Dublin, yeah.

[61] Do you live there?

[62] I live in Dublin, yeah.

[63] Oh, my God.

[64] First of all, we're super fans.

[65] Let's just start with us owning that.

[66] We're awestruck.

[67] Oh, stop it.

[68] It's true.

[69] It's true.

[70] Have you ever lived outside of Ireland?

[71] You must have lived in London for a stretch or something.

[72] Yeah, we were in London for like 14 years.

[73] Both our kids were born there.

[74] And we only came back to Dublin in 2015, I think it was.

[75] Motivated by missing family or missing Ireland.

[76] or Haiti in London?

[77] I don't know.

[78] It's kind of an Irish story, you know, to move away, do your thing, and then come home.

[79] That seems to be a common narrative for Irish people.

[80] And then we wanted the kids to be Irish.

[81] You know, and they were sort of at that age where they were pre -teens.

[82] They had very posh English accents.

[83] I wasn't appreciating that too much.

[84] So we decided to come back.

[85] And, you know, parents are a certain age.

[86] And it was just a nice time to come home.

[87] You've never lived in the United States.

[88] Never permanently.

[89] No, I've been there working and, like lived in New York and California.

[90] The appeals of the sunshine are impervious to you.

[91] You don't care.

[92] You're not lured by the sunshine.

[93] I love visiting and I love the food and I do love the weather.

[94] I don't know.

[95] I just feel European, you know.

[96] I just feel Irish.

[97] I'd feel like a bit of an interloper, I think, if I live in California.

[98] I couldn't envisage living there permanently.

[99] I love to come and visit, though.

[100] Yeah, do your kids, they must like it, though.

[101] California?

[102] They haven't been there since they were, I suppose, little boys, but they did love it.

[103] Yes.

[104] It'd be interesting to see what they thought of it now if we went back with them.

[105] Because this may shock you, but for us, even in the States, like, I'm from Detroit, Monica's from Atlanta.

[106] California is still this, like, completely fake place, even if you grow up in the States.

[107] It's like, it's where every TV show you grew up watching is.

[108] People are at the beat.

[109] I guess people serve.

[110] Big Ferris wheel.

[111] I think the thing that I struggled with when I went there as a young man and kind of wannabe actor or whatever, I struggled with the kind of monoculture a little bit.

[112] the fact that it was an industry town, and that freaked me out a little bit, that everybody was doing the same thing.

[113] Yes, so I agree with you.

[114] Virtually everyone you run into is in some tributary pursuit of show business.

[115] Is it the desperation that you're allergic to?

[116] Like, is it just like there's so many people who are like desperate for it?

[117] No, I don't think it's that.

[118] I think it's that I really enjoy not working.

[119] And when I don't work, I actually have nothing to do with.

[120] the business at all.

[121] I just switch off and none of my close friends are involved.

[122] And so I can just like totally switch off where I think if I was living in Los Angeles, you know, you're not working, but every day you're just everybody you meet is in the business.

[123] And I would find that a bit overwhelming, I think.

[124] And then there's this added like layer that everywhere you drive, there's huge billboards of other actors doing other things.

[125] So it's like even if you're someone who like makes an effort not to track what anyone's doing, it's unavoidable to not realize like, oh, all right, good for them oh wonderful for them look at this this looks great for them exactly and it's great when you're on the billboard but yes i'm with you now i will say i have such little data to say this but my father and i went to ireland and we got talking with this gal an irish woman and we were about to visit this like castle or something i don't know we were being tourists and she said well you know if you were irish you would jump over the wall you want to buy a ticket i said oh i vibe them That's kind of our jam and Detroit, too.

[126] Like, just kind of do what you got to do.

[127] You don't have the means, so just fucking figure it out.

[128] I felt a real kinship with that attitude.

[129] That exists, yeah, because of the nature of our history, I suppose, the constant rebellions.

[130] But it's funny, during this whole weirdness and this pandemic and everything, Ireland has 93 % vaccination.

[131] We are so obedient and good and responsible.

[132] It's very interesting.

[133] You're right.

[134] it seems a little counterintuitive for a rebellious population.

[135] But then we're very sort of forward -looking socially and very socially liberal for a country that was so repressed even 30 years ago and was controlled so much by the church.

[136] There's been massive, massive progress even in the last 10 years.

[137] So Ireland is a real contradiction of a country, and I kind of love it for that.

[138] Yeah, I love it.

[139] I'm going to say this.

[140] This is a weird thing to say.

[141] But again, on this same trip with my father, in Northern.

[142] an amount of handsome guys there.

[143] Like, just an average guy I saw.

[144] I was like, man, these Irish guys, they're all pretty fucking solid looking.

[145] That's not an observation I think I've ever made in another country.

[146] I wonder what part of Ireland you were in so we could like attribute all the handsome.

[147] Well, Kalyan, I went everywhere.

[148] I was on the cliffs of Moher.

[149] I was all through the south.

[150] Yeah, we were just driving around a car.

[151] We didn't know where we were going.

[152] My dad was sober.

[153] I was drinking heavily at every stop.

[154] I hadn't gotten sober yet, and I applaud him for being able to sit there and watch me get plastered.

[155] Yeah, we were all over the South, and it was so lovely.

[156] And again, I was just kind of overwhelmed with how strapping and good -looking all the men were.

[157] On behalf of Ireland, I'll take that compliment.

[158] You are the poster boy for it, I would say.

[159] Yeah, at this point.

[160] Well, there's a few other Irish actors who were doing okay.

[161] That Liam Neeson guy, he did all right.

[162] He did okay.

[163] He's Irish?

[164] He's Irish, right, Liam?

[165] Yeah.

[166] You got to be Irish to play Michael Collins.

[167] Oh, wow.

[168] Yeah, he's brilliant.

[169] My father, nine, the same trip.

[170] My father was famous for falling asleep within five seconds of any movie.

[171] And Michael Collins came out while we were on this trip.

[172] And I said, oh, my gosh, let's go to this movie theater and we'll see Michael Collins in Ireland.

[173] It's going to be great.

[174] Five minutes into the movie, he snoring pretty loud, right?

[175] And there's a group of guys behind us.

[176] And I can hear them.

[177] They're getting more agitated.

[178] So I keep waking him up.

[179] Like, yeah, we're going to get fucking rolled here.

[180] You got to stay awake.

[181] This is like really disrespectful.

[182] All right, all right, I'm on it.

[183] I'm on it.

[184] Falls asleep for the fifth time.

[185] Start snoring out loud.

[186] And I hear behind me, I'm going to fucking stop this motherfucker like this.

[187] All of a sudden I heard stab in this motherfucker.

[188] And then I really violently shook him away.

[189] I said, we've either got to leave this theater.

[190] You got to stay awake to the end.

[191] And did he?

[192] He made it.

[193] He made it.

[194] Yeah, he got his shit together.

[195] And he got through the end of the film.

[196] I guess, yeah, at the threat of murder.

[197] murder.

[198] It's a good film, though.

[199] That'll wake you up.

[200] It's a great film.

[201] One shouldn't sleep through it.

[202] Yeah.

[203] If you were raised Catholic, I imagine you were raised in southern Ireland.

[204] Yep.

[205] I'm from Cork, which is right down the south.

[206] How big of a population does Cork have?

[207] How tiny of a town is it?

[208] Well, no, it's not that tiny.

[209] It's the second city.

[210] So Dublin is the capital and Cork is the second city.

[211] By American standards, it's teeny weenie.

[212] Are we talking 400 ,000 people?

[213] Do we know?

[214] The reason I am not revealing the population is that I don't know, and I'm from cork and if anyone from cork hears this they will go i cannot believe he doesn't know the population of cork we just went through this of american cities what we thought how big they were and i didn't know anything so that's fine you guys aren't interested in population that's right there's other things to think about i think there's five million people in the whole country so that gives you a sense and i think there's one million in dublin and then there's like 13 million irish in the u .s exactly claimed to be irish yeah oh especially around St. Patrick's Day, boy, even I'm Irish on St. Patrick's Day.

[215] Is that offensive or do you think it's adorable?

[216] I mean, it's lovely to be loved, isn't it?

[217] I mean, it was an actual fact of emigration.

[218] This did happen and without giving you a boring history lesson, but so many people left, particularly for America.

[219] Yeah.

[220] Because of the famine and everything else, but that did happen.

[221] So there are many, many people that do trace the roots back here.

[222] But again, from the outside, I'm not Irish and I'm not from there, but it seems flattering.

[223] So the whole country He dresses in green.

[224] We drink green beer and eat green mashed potatoes.

[225] Like, we get all in on it.

[226] Is that bizarre from your point of view, like back in Ireland?

[227] It is a little bit because do people actually know what they're selling?

[228] No, they think it's leprechaun.

[229] Well, just a general love for the Irish, I think.

[230] Yeah, well, that's great.

[231] I'll take that.

[232] But I think it's probably not a very sophisticated view of Ireland and all of that.

[233] Listen, it happens here too.

[234] But everybody needs their sort of national day, don't they?

[235] It's only you in Mexico.

[236] In Mexico, less so, for sure.

[237] Cinco de Mayo is now a big thing.

[238] That can be offensive to people, understandably so.

[239] But really, no one ever dawns Leaderhosen.

[240] There's no other national celebration of an ethnicity.

[241] So again, I don't know if it's really flattering or if it's like, what are you guys doing?

[242] We are technically, we are appropriating.

[243] Yes.

[244] Yeah, well.

[245] Who cares?

[246] Do you ever drink Beamish?

[247] Yeah, Beamish is from Cork.

[248] That's where I'm from, yeah.

[249] I went to Ireland with the sole intention.

[250] drink Guinness the whole time.

[251] Then I stumbled upon Beamish and I never turned back.

[252] It was Beamish the whole time.

[253] Beamish, especially in Cork, because that's where it's brewed.

[254] But yeah, it's a high quality stout.

[255] We couldn't find any in London.

[256] We were hoping for some.

[257] No, tricky to find in London.

[258] Murphy's is also a good stout, also from Cork.

[259] I mean, Guinness is kind of the king of stouts, but those two are also pretty tasty.

[260] I'm glad you brought up Murphy, and not just because it's your namesake, But yeah, that also is a very smooth style, real creamy.

[261] A little sweeter than Guinness.

[262] It is.

[263] You would have liked it more than the Guinness.

[264] Yeah, Guinness is a little much.

[265] Yeah, it's a full meal, right?

[266] I told her all the lore that it would raise your iron levels and you could subsist off of it in the hospital if necessary.

[267] I don't think that's probably scientifically, but it sure is tasty.

[268] Don't threaten Dax's doctor science cred.

[269] He'll fight you.

[270] Yeah, this is Elaine.

[271] carved out for myself that has nothing to a show business.

[272] It's armchair medical advice.

[273] Now, okay, I want to go to Cork and your father's a teacher.

[274] You would be like third generation teacher had you gone into it, right?

[275] Like the whole family's proliferated with teachers.

[276] Yeah.

[277] Yeah, my grandfather, my mom's side was a headmaster.

[278] Both of them are retired now.

[279] My mom was a French teacher.

[280] Dad's an Irish teacher and a maths teacher.

[281] So aunts and uncles are teachers.

[282] So I knew 100 % that's one thing I wasn't going to do.

[283] Did you want to show your like mates I'm not afraid to fuck off.

[284] I don't care who's running this place, even if it is my family.

[285] What impact did it have, having so many teachers above you?

[286] Yeah, you're not wrong.

[287] I think I did act out a bit as a kid.

[288] Like when I was a little kid and then as a teenager, I kind of acted out.

[289] Like, not in a really dangerous way or anything.

[290] It was just a bit of a messer, you know, and just causing trouble.

[291] I'd go to school and I enjoyed school, but then I would come home and my parents would give me extra, like, lessons at home also.

[292] I got all the education.

[293] And so it was very well -meaning, but probably too much.

[294] It's like these people who raise their kids macrobiotic, and then the kids just eat Oreos when they grew up.

[295] Yeah, yeah.

[296] It was too much.

[297] It tipped.

[298] It did.

[299] You started playing music at a young age.

[300] Did you have, like, a North Star at that time?

[301] Like, who was it that you thought was just the coolest and I want to pursue this as well?

[302] Or was it generated in another way?

[303] How'd you come into music?

[304] There was always music in the house.

[305] There was always music on.

[306] My dad is quite musical.

[307] and they used to bring us to like traditional Irish music sessions and pubs and stuff when we were kids.

[308] And then my dad had a lot of the Beatles' greatest hits.

[309] So I used to listen to the Beatles a lot.

[310] I'm still obsessed with the Beatles.

[311] They're my favorite, favorite band.

[312] And then I started playing guitar and drums and stuff when I was a kid and was in bands.

[313] And I just loved performing.

[314] I loved being on the stage and not as an actor, but just playing music.

[315] I just loved it.

[316] And I wanted to do it, really.

[317] Were you shy in general or were you outgoing?

[318] Like, was your persona?

[319] on the stage, a complete departure from what people would have guessed of you?

[320] No, I was pretty outgoing, I think.

[321] But, you know, that thing where you're like, yeah, yeah, but inside you're a little fragile.

[322] Oh, of course.

[323] Which I think you need to be as a performer.

[324] So, no, I just loved music.

[325] You know, I was in bands from when I was very young and I loved the camaraderie of bands and that shared humor and shared taste of music.

[326] And so we just practice and practice and practice.

[327] And that's all I wanted to do, really.

[328] How much older are you than your younger brother?

[329] Two years.

[330] So we're very, very close.

[331] He's kind of like my best friend.

[332] Oh, man. That's really lovely.

[333] My brother's five years older.

[334] It doesn't leave the door open for best friendship.

[335] And then Monica's little brother's eight years younger.

[336] Yeah, and we are not best friends.

[337] Yeah, can be insurmountable.

[338] Yeah, I have a sister who's 10 years younger than me. And like, so when I left home, she would have been eight.

[339] It's the same thing.

[340] It's almost like a generation, isn't it?

[341] Totally.

[342] And then only now are we both at the same level of life, which is adulthood.

[343] But even still, he's just entering.

[344] adulthood and I'm really old.

[345] You're crushing it, basically.

[346] You're at the pinnacle of adulthood.

[347] It's just weird to never be in the same place as your sibling in life.

[348] Yeah, it's a very different experience of life.

[349] And what role did he play?

[350] Like, what were your division of labor in the band when you guys were working together?

[351] He's very talented piano player, kind of jazz, pianist, and there was five of us in the band.

[352] We were just really good friends and have that dream if we're going to get a record deal.

[353] And we got close, actually.

[354] We actually get offered a record deal and then we turned it down, or our parents turned it down on our behalf.

[355] Okay, because I read you turned it down and I was like, I can't rent my head around that, being in my youth and not pursuing that.

[356] That's a helpful part of the story that your parents had of.

[357] Well, my brother was still in school, so I was, I don't know, 18 or something, and I had left school, and he was still in school.

[358] He was 16.

[359] The idea of losing two of us was just too outrageous and horrifying for them.

[360] So it didn't happen.

[361] And then everything just kind of fell apart then.

[362] But, you know, in retrospect, I'm glad that that happened.

[363] I'm sure you guys know people in the music industry.

[364] It's just a terrible industry, unless you're super successful.

[365] It's really hard to make a living.

[366] And record companies don't really treat artists very well.

[367] I think I would have crashed and burned pretty quickly in that industry.

[368] You took your name from a Zappa song, which is intriguing to me as someone growing up in Ireland that you would have gravitated towards Zappa.

[369] Are you a Zappa fan?

[370] I am.

[371] Well, I like Hot Rats.

[372] I think is incredible.

[373] We too.

[374] It's almost like going to the carnival or something, listening to that out.

[375] Yeah.

[376] There's a brilliant documentary out about him that came out on Apple there recently.

[377] He was a very complicated, not altogether likable man, but uncompromising in his vision for his music and like Hot Rats would be my favorite, probably his most accessible record.

[378] But people have this misconception of Zappa that he was hippie.

[379] He never took drugs, never drank.

[380] He only smoked cigarettes and drank coffee.

[381] He hated hippies, like with a vengeance.

[382] And that's why that first record, we're only in it for the money everything oh that's a hippie racket he was taking the mickey out of hippies and all that peace and love culture you're so right he was in such a niche niche that he created he didn't follow any of the scripts of his contemporaries and just fucking as authentic as it gets though i don't know where one just has that conviction about being that fucking out there exactly and i think that's what i found really inspiring about him as a kid and i still do and i think you can separate the art from the artist yeah me too i could be wrong about the history.

[383] I haven't seen the doc, but there seems to be some implied integrity in that he often found things that bordered on working commercially, and he never then doubled down on what was working per se.

[384] Yeah, we had a couple of hits then in the 80s.

[385] Remember that Valley Girl tune?

[386] I think he just got bored with musicians, because they would never just quite play the notes how he wanted them to be played.

[387] So then he went on to computers.

[388] He was one of the first pioneers of making music on computers.

[389] And then eventually he started doing all this really out there avant -garde orchestral music and stuff.

[390] He's a hero.

[391] of mine.

[392] You said that when you're not working, acting, that you don't think about it.

[393] It's not in your life.

[394] But it sounds like music is still very much part of your life.

[395] Yeah.

[396] I guess because I am still frustrated that it didn't work out.

[397] I find it very consoling music.

[398] How excited are you for this Peter Jackson Beatles thing?

[399] Oh man. You cannot believe how excited I am.

[400] Me too.

[401] Are you going to have a Beatles night?

[402] You got to have like a Beatles night in your house.

[403] I want to eventize it because it seems absolutely incredible.

[404] I watch a 60 Minutes segment about it this weekend.

[405] His conclusion that the entire narrative of the Beatles is erroneous, that it was kind of fabricated for that film and that these aren't guys that are fighting and hating each other.

[406] You know, it's just very cherry pick.

[407] It's so encouraging.

[408] And then they get into the fact that it's even fucked up their own memory of it.

[409] Yes.

[410] That is mind -blowing, right?

[411] Yeah.

[412] I think we have this really firm idea of what we, we think we experienced, and then it's just so subject to so many elements.

[413] It's shocking.

[414] And imagine for those guys where they're sort of part of the culture of the whole world, it must be very hard to distinguish from a picture or a poster or a film as opposed to your actual memory of the event or what happened and how you were feeling, and particularly for stuff that happened 40 years ago.

[415] I've had this several times where I go back to my parents' house, and I'll be going through an old photo album of when I'm a child, And I'll have to admit that this memory I think I have is actually just a memory of this photo that I've been looking at for 40 years when I visit once a year.

[416] Have you had that experience?

[417] Oh, completely.

[418] And I think for our generation, when there was fewer photographs, so we poured over what documents of our lives there were.

[419] Unlike now, there's just thousands of stuff in hard drives and clouds where we just pick the ones where we think we look most handsome or whatever, you know.

[420] Whereas back then you just had the show.

[421] And it became huge in your memory, didn't it?

[422] Yeah.

[423] That's a fucking great point.

[424] I mean, I don't know how our children even go through these photos we've taken.

[425] This is too much.

[426] What is funny, to your point, I don't think my face ever looks good.

[427] But I am deleting photos that I'm not super vascular in, and then I'm keeping ones where you can see some veins.

[428] So were my kids to go through this curated childhood, they would have no other conclusion than like, Dad was so vainy.

[429] But yeah, you and I are roughly the same age.

[430] I think I'm a year older, like the totality of photos of my entire childhood is maybe 45 pictures.

[431] Same.

[432] And then from my poor siblings, they got an increasingly less.

[433] Well, I was the younger.

[434] Yeah.

[435] So there's probably like 200 of my brother and there's probably like 45 of me and they're like 15 of my sister.

[436] But I think, and I know I sound like a grumpy old man now, but I think that's probably better than gazillions of photographs in a hard drive that would probably be obsolete by the time your children are 21 are trying to show it at their.

[437] I don't know, virtual reality 21st birthday party.

[438] I prefer to have an analog document that you could just go, look.

[439] Yeah.

[440] So anyways, back to the Beatles.

[441] So if I know how much my own story of my history is through these 45 photographs that exist in photo albums, yeah, those guys, McCartney and whatnot, they have all this footage of them as 20 -year -olds.

[442] And there's no way that footage hasn't become their memories as well.

[443] And they must have so much memory as well.

[444] you know, all of those gigs, all of those albums, all of those people they met, there must be a lot of information for those guys to process.

[445] Have you experienced this where, like, you and I have had overly lucky lives.

[446] So the things that would have maybe stuck out for us at one point get dulled by, I don't know, going to the third Batman premiere in your life.

[447] Like, I don't know who's there.

[448] And the magnitude of it is so overwhelming.

[449] Let me just own my side.

[450] I have forgotten things that should be very.

[451] memorable because of the dearth of super lucky things i've been a part of maybe so i can only imagine what their landscape is of their memory because it's like where would they start i mean you see pictures of them with like little richard and pictures with like mohammed ali there was just like one day maybe in their life so they might have forgotten meeting sammy davis junior because they met mohammed that day well there's a famous meeting with elvis where there's all these conflicting uh accounts of it Oh, really?

[452] Yeah.

[453] Like, John has one account and Ringo has another account.

[454] And in some accounts, like, they smoked a joint.

[455] And some accounts, they like played music together.

[456] It's interesting.

[457] It's like when you're an eyewitness to a murder.

[458] Oh, yeah.

[459] Eyewitness is like the most useless thing ever in a courtroom.

[460] Because for people who have seen the same thing will say completely different things.

[461] Something happens to our brains.

[462] That's why I've always been slightly suspicious of memoirs.

[463] Now, I think if memoirs are like diarized and someone has kept a diary for all of their lives, but I don't know.

[464] I remember I started reading Keith Richards memoir, who I like, I love the guy's an absolute legend, but how can you remember in that detail?

[465] How is it possible?

[466] So therefore, the veracity or the authenticity of it was slightly, I just couldn't get through it.

[467] However, when I read the Dylan one, I thought, I bet you he kept like very detailed notes of all of this stuff.

[468] So I kind of buy that a bit more.

[469] It's very hard to imagine Keith waking up on time to get that journal entry in in the morning.

[470] Yeah, given how much he was juggling at the time.

[471] I read that, too, the Keith Richards, and I listened to books at night to go to sleep, and that one, it was useless.

[472] Like, I stayed up until three in the morning because every story is a 10 in that book.

[473] It's so good.

[474] I'm sure it's hard at some point to separate your memory of a thing that's already twisted because it's so heightened.

[475] And then the press, what everyone has said about you and their idea of that memory probably seeps in, and you don't even know.

[476] So you're also affected by other.

[477] other people's opinions of it without even knowing.

[478] Like, it's so strange.

[479] That's what they're saying happened in this Beatles doc is it was four -story purpose.

[480] This is where the Yoko Ono rumor starts.

[481] This is where everything starts.

[482] Again, if you and I, Killian, were rehearsing for something for three months, and someone recorded the whole thing and then they showed us the five fights we got into, we're liable to have forgotten the, like, 80 times we got along at Crafty.

[483] Yeah, and it shows you the power of editing, isn't it?

[484] That first version that came out, they were all.

[485] presented as just at each other's throats.

[486] And there was all this other footage.

[487] But I think the reason that it was presented like that was to sort of explain the break -up.

[488] But it must be weird.

[489] Everything you do is mythologize.

[490] You wear a different hat.

[491] It's, ooh.

[492] It must be crazy for those guys.

[493] Yeah, well, there's kind of a well -documented in the social sciences.

[494] Our nature as humans is to explain things after the fact.

[495] So it's like they happen.

[496] We can't really understand it.

[497] But, man, we just keep working until we create a little story around it that feels satisfying.

[498] Like, okay, well, that was predictable.

[499] in some sense.

[500] I have less anxiety about this world I'm living in because I figured out why that happened.

[501] Well, quite often you haven't really figured out why that happened.

[502] Okay, so I'm going to race through.

[503] So you were into music heavily.

[504] It was your life.

[505] You went to law school.

[506] You got the fuck out of there as quick as possible.

[507] And you start acting.

[508] You start acting on the stage and you end up touring with disco pigs on stage for a very long time, yeah?

[509] Yeah, well, for about 18 months.

[510] At the time you're on stage, are you like, this is it.

[511] This is all.

[512] all I want to do, man. I want to live on this fucking stage and that's that.

[513] Or were you like, I want to do movies, TV, whatever it was.

[514] I know definitely this is the greatest thing ever.

[515] I want to keep doing this forever.

[516] I just love theater.

[517] I love all these people.

[518] Everybody is so interesting.

[519] I can stay up late.

[520] There's probably a free bar.

[521] So I had no other ambitions whatsoever.

[522] And I did theater for about four years exclusively and like no films or telly or anything.

[523] I think that's where I learned about acting just from doing it live and from looking at other actors and from working with good directors.

[524] It's a very steep learning curve when you're thrown out on stage and you just got to do it every night.

[525] Well, and you're getting like real -time data whether you suck or not, which is so helpful.

[526] Yeah, and then you can absorb that and try things to the next night or fix things and respond to the audience.

[527] I think it became sort of a surrogate.

[528] or a replacement for the live music that I had to abandon because I was still doing something that had a live element to it.

[529] It had that intensity and that danger to it still.

[530] Are you the type of person who could enjoy fucking with it?

[531] Is there a play and flexibility and latitude within even doing something for 18 months?

[532] My favorite part of theater is the rehearsal, the preview and then the opening night.

[533] And after that, you're just like trying to keep it good.

[534] Do you know what I mean?

[535] And trying not to do what you just described, which is really dangerous, which is to go, fuck this, I'm going to try something else and just there's like a house of cards and everything, the whole thing will start collapsing.

[536] And I think when I was a young actor, I definitely did that, particularly in that first play, I kind of was making it interesting for myself, but it wasn't being true to the story or to the character.

[537] And that's not your job.

[538] So you have to be really, really disciplined and it's really, really hard to do play for a long time.

[539] I don't really have the stamina to do it for a long time anymore.

[540] The last time I did one, I did it for maybe six weeks.

[541] That was hard enough.

[542] It's just a hard.

[543] thing for your brain and for your psyche and for your creativity to repeat something.

[544] It's about precision.

[545] Yes, that's a skill set I lack.

[546] I flatter myself.

[547] You know, the orcas at SeaWorld, like the dolphins, they teach them a routine, and they'll do the same routine indefinitely for those fish.

[548] The orca, even though they want the fish, after like four days of doing the trick, they have to give them a new trick all the time, or they just won't even do any of it.

[549] And I kind of feel like that.

[550] I'm the orca at Sea World.

[551] like i just but i'm curious early on if i'm on the outside and i'm looking at you to me early on i'm getting mcdowell vibes oh yeah and i'm wondering like clockwork orange was that a movie you consumed what did you think of mcdowell i just see a similarity there early on that's funny you said that the first play i ever saw was an adaptation of clockwork orange for the stage and i'd never been to a play before and it absolutely like blew my windows out.

[552] I couldn't believe how brilliant it was.

[553] I hadn't read the book at that point, but then I remember we brought disco pigs to Canada and Clockwork Orange was banned in Ireland.

[554] I don't know if it was banned in the UK as well.

[555] This is 25 years ago.

[556] But I remember I got my hands on a VHS copy of Clockcic Orange.

[557] That was big.

[558] So I mean, I would take that as a huge compliment.

[559] I mean, he's an extraordinary actor and particularly in that movie.

[560] And I guess that's the thing of being a young actor.

[561] Isn't it a little bit?

[562] You want to be intense and you want to go deep.

[563] That's what your instincts are.

[564] I don't know.

[565] Particularly for young male actors, it seems to be that thing.

[566] There's a lot of like wanting to go as far as you can and everything.

[567] And I definitely had that.

[568] And it's a time in your life to set those sites as high as humanly possible.

[569] I think so.

[570] And I was attracted to those sorts of performances, I think, and I was a kid.

[571] Okay, great.

[572] So that's my question.

[573] Do you think you innately embodied that like, that's just the essence that you couldn't have escaped, or did you see that you had a lane that you could fit in nicely in that you could do those kind of unhinged?

[574] Is this person a psychopath?

[575] Do I trust them?

[576] Like, that's a rare skill set.

[577] And I wonder if you found it or it found you.

[578] The thing is in the movies, if you do one thing, well, the people that make the movies are so myopic that they want you to do it again.

[579] I guess if you play a bad guy well, they'll want you to play a bad guy again.

[580] But I think if you're an actor, the whole point is you can play any range of characters.

[581] And that's what I've tried to do over the years.

[582] At any point, did you feel trapped?

[583] Like, I'm always going to be the antagonist.

[584] Did you have that fear at any point?

[585] There was a point, I think, when Batman Begins came out.

[586] This is like 2005 or something like that.

[587] And Red Eye, that was a sort of a fluke of distribution.

[588] I remember that movie came out and then Batman came out kind of the same year.

[589] But then I went off and I did this film, Breakfast practiced on Pluto, and then I did this Irish film, The Wind the Chakes of Barley.

[590] So I felt that I immediately went to play different parts, and it's never really been an issue.

[591] Here's where you as a human being intersects with that.

[592] So what I kind of deduce from that, those decisions is like, you had no pressure to support some crazy lifestyle.

[593] Like, I can kind of learn a lot by the fact that you could step back from probably the minimally more profitable roles and just go do some things that you believe in doing.

[594] must have kept your life small enough that there wasn't pressure to do otherwise.

[595] Yeah, that's true.

[596] And I went back and did theater all the way through all of making those films.

[597] Like we discussed at the beginning, I never really had any ambition to move lock stock out to L .A. or anything like that.

[598] So I was always, yeah, just doing my own thing, the stuff that I enjoyed over here.

[599] I'm working with people that I've always worked with over here.

[600] So, yeah, my life is very, very simple.

[601] That's an advantage in this career.

[602] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[603] We've all been there.

[604] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[605] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[606] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter.

[607] whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[608] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[609] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[610] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[611] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[612] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[613] What's up guys, this your girl Kiki And my podcast is back with a new season And let me tell you it's too good And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest Okay, every episode I bring on a friend And I don't mean just friends I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox The list goes on So follow, watch and listen to Baby This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app Or wherever you get your podcast I have a question This is going back to Irish talk Because when we had Alicia Vikandron, we talked so much about Sweden and like the national culture of Sweden and how it differs.

[614] And I do wonder, like, is there like a feeling there that's specific to the culture that we don't have?

[615] Oh, it's a good question.

[616] I mean, it's a big question.

[617] I don't know if I'm competent enough to answer.

[618] I think Irish people are kind of naturally storytellers.

[619] I think there's an instinct to not do the designated things.

[620] And for a small little country, the amount of music and writing and actors that have come out of this country is kind of astonishing.

[621] But I don't know.

[622] I don't really have the perspective on it because I live here, I suppose.

[623] At the risk of offending any Irish people, my kind of conclusion about the Irish is always in the wake of this kind of superpower with their thumb on you.

[624] And some degree of looking at Ireland is that they were somehow less than.

[625] and they still had this stupid Roman Catholic religion and they've not evolved.

[626] So there's like a bizarre classism against the Irish.

[627] And the Irish, you have so much pride, they said, hey, guess what?

[628] We don't give a fuck that you're looking down on us.

[629] In fact, we take great pride in the fact that we're the rough scrabble folks.

[630] And I find that's a very common theme in blue -collar industrial pockets of the U .S. Yeah, I mean, that rings true.

[631] Yeah, you could be talking about Ireland there for sure.

[632] All right.

[633] I want to know because I'm going to put him, and maybe a three -way tie of directors, I'm most blown away with.

[634] But you have this relationship with Nolan that has just carrying on since that man begins.

[635] What is it about the relationship for you guys, if you could articulate it?

[636] That's a match.

[637] Well, I met Chris maybe 2004 or something like that, so it's a long time ago.

[638] Big year for you, by the way.

[639] You get married in 2004, yeah?

[640] Yeah, that's right.

[641] Marry your wife and meet Nolan.

[642] this is a big year.

[643] You probably remember this.

[644] When they were casting the Christian Bale Batman, everybody was going up to audition for Batman.

[645] And like for some crazy reason I got to audition for Batman.

[646] Like it doesn't make any sense.

[647] So I got to audition for Chris for that.

[648] And remember we met and we just got on really, really well.

[649] And he's so smart and so lovely and so sort of approachable.

[650] And we talked for hours about film.

[651] And he's got this encyclopedic knowledge of film.

[652] And then I did this screen test.

[653] and clearly it was always going to be Christian Bale's role.

[654] He was just amazing.

[655] He was made for it.

[656] I did something in the test that he liked and he gave me this other part and then call me up and he would make other films and I would turn up and he would always give me these nice parts.

[657] And I really respect the way he works.

[658] I think he's a master, master filmmaker.

[659] I really admire his rigor and his dedication to the art of it.

[660] It's been a lovely relationship, professional and creative.

[661] Have you already shot Oppenheimer or that's forthcoming?

[662] Yeah, we do that next year.

[663] year.

[664] Did you read American Prometheus?

[665] Yeah, well, that's what it's based off.

[666] Yeah.

[667] Oh, it is.

[668] Okay, I read that last year.

[669] Oh, did you?

[670] What did you think?

[671] I fucking loved it.

[672] He's such a fascinating person.

[673] I mean, among the many fascinating things about Oppenheimer, and for people who aren't super up to date, he led the Manhattan Project.

[674] He was physicist at Berkeley.

[675] But he had this weird mixes.

[676] He was like super liberal at Berkeley.

[677] And then he kind of got on the war machine.

[678] And then he became kind of, not jingoistic, but it's certainly kind of a reversal of who he had been before.

[679] And I mean, I guess he was kind of independently wealthy.

[680] That was helpful.

[681] He lived this artistic life for a physicist.

[682] And I got to imagine it's a really awesome role to get, but then also perhaps a bit intimidating because he was so kind of contradictory and complex.

[683] Oh, it's perfect for drama.

[684] I mean, everything that you've just described, it's just made for a story.

[685] And yeah, I think that's the best thing about great characters is their contradictions.

[686] It's like cognitive dissonance.

[687] How can they hold these two completely contradictory thoughts or many contradictory thoughts in the one space?

[688] And he was a perfect example of that.

[689] And of course, this brain that was just unbelievable.

[690] The character, it's an absolute gift.

[691] And then, yeah, I am terrified about playing it.

[692] But I think you have to go into every role with an equal level of sort of terror and confidence.

[693] Or else you're just going to make bland work.

[694] I think you need to be constantly challenged and standing at the precipice of something in order to make good work.

[695] Nobody cruises into good work, I think.

[696] Maybe Clint East would.

[697] I don't know.

[698] Maybe there's a couple throughout time.

[699] Bill Murray, maybe.

[700] Okay.

[701] You're destroying my argument.

[702] No, but it's a good one.

[703] It's a very good one.

[704] Yeah, I think you do need that combination.

[705] This is how we describe alcoholics is a megalomaniac with an inferiority complex.

[706] That's like the sweet spot for an actor.

[707] So you've got to be arrogant enough to think you can do it and then terrified enough you think you're going to fail to work your ass off to do it right.

[708] Exactly.

[709] It's that sort of overarching self -confidence and that crippling anxiety.

[710] At the same time, they have to be balanced.

[711] What a sweet recipe.

[712] I just have one, how the sausage is made question about Nolan, because I'm pretty obsessed with him.

[713] Is it tedious to be in his movies?

[714] Because they're so perfectly shot and so complex.

[715] I'll use an example.

[716] That's not him, which is like, I also love Fincher.

[717] And I also know my own temperament.

[718] There's no way I could be in one of those movies.

[719] Like, I couldn't do 90 takes or something.

[720] Back to the orca thing.

[721] It would be really hard for me. Is the Nolan experience?

[722] Is it real meticulous?

[723] He works fast, man. He works fast.

[724] And I remember the first time I went on Batman begins, like I was expecting this huge machine, which it is at times, but generally, if we're doing a scene, there's you and me and the camera and the boom and Chris next to him.

[725] That's it.

[726] It's really, really intimate.

[727] So I'd come from making little independent films and it felt like a little independent film but on this huge scale now when he's doing the huge set pieces obviously there'll be multi cameras and all that sort of thing but for the most part it's all about the performance and he's right there beside the camera there's no video village or any that stuff oh really none of that no and like he does move fast you feel like he's hired you because he knows you can do this and then he's got the whole film mapped out in his head so methodically and so precisely it's really stunning to watch him work okay now let's talk about peekie blinders because fuck i wish i had it up on my phone i have gone as peeky blinders to Halloween no way yeah we went to the horse races and everyone there was someone's birthday and that was the theme was peeky blinders and we all went we're about as hardcore as it can get about peeky blinders oh that's amazing and i got to say for me i was only familiar with you and those bad guy roles i even thought to myself well what's it going to be like to root for this guy and by the time you arrive at the pub like the beginning of show the way they shoot that horse and the ash fallen and the music and the whole nine yards i mean i don't know that i've been more firmly buckled into a character by his introduction as i was to thomas shelby it's so masterful it's so awesome and the world is so consistent and the tone is so wonderful i wonder when you're acting in it can you ever buy into the fairy tale like can you ever feel like you're in post -World War I scrappy England?

[728] Can you teleport there at all during it?

[729] You can, I think, sometimes because the sets are so amazing and the locations are so amazing.

[730] But the real thing that is the foundation for all of the success of the show is the writing.

[731] He's a phenomenal writer.

[732] And, you know, the thing you said about world building.

[733] Well, you know, he builds that world between the wars in Birmingham that nobody has any concept of what that would be like.

[734] They teach the wars, but not the bit in between.

[735] I mean, so the fact that he was able to conjure that up in words and in these characters that were all so broken and kind of destroyed, but you still feel empathy for them.

[736] It was a very clever thing to set the sort of before and after thinking, what would these guys have been like before they went to France?

[737] And then they come back and they're all suffering from PTSD and just self -medicating.

[738] And then you have this character who is clearly super intelligent and has this ambition and this lack of fear of death.

[739] Yeah, yeah.

[740] So all you've got to do really is lean into that writing and create the world that's on the page.

[741] I'm a firm believer that all of that good stuff comes from the script.

[742] I'm sure you'd agree with that.

[743] Well, yeah, I mean, Stephen Knight is incredible.

[744] I'm quite envious of the fact that you've worked with Danny Boyle and Nolan and you get to work with Knight.

[745] That's a lot of good folks to have worked with by 45, right?

[746] I feel very lucky, yeah.

[747] They're the real deal.

[748] I didn't know this, but I have since learned this, that Jason Statham was in the mix to play.

[749] I think that might be apocryphal, but it's a good story, isn't it?

[750] Obviously, we're always up for the same parts, me and him.

[751] Well, that's exactly what I was going to say.

[752] Even if that is apocryphal, you can see where that would have been something they would explore, because Thomas Shelby's like the baddest motherfucker in England.

[753] What I'm impressed with by you and happy about is that you played it in the way great tough guys have played it, which is you don't lean into it at all.

[754] I mean, the calmer you are when the shit's hitting the fan, the more believable it is.

[755] And I would imagine it's tempting when you're like, oh, I got to play the heavy in this show.

[756] Am I going to act like this?

[757] Am I going to gain 50 pounds?

[758] Was there any of those thoughts like, man, I got to deliver on the tough guy aspect of this?

[759] Yeah.

[760] And I think that's probably where that Jason Statham story came from in some way, who by the way is amazing at what he does.

[761] Oh, yes.

[762] He's like Buster Keaton in a way.

[763] Yeah, absolutely amazing what he does.

[764] I think maybe they were slightly reluctant to cast someone who was not necessarily a physical specimen, like Statham is.

[765] But, you know, you kind of then have to do some acting, really.

[766] I think some of the best acting is silence.

[767] You go, what the fuck is that guy thinking?

[768] And then we worked a lot then on the sort of silhouette of the character and the hat and the haircut.

[769] Anything that could make me look a little bit tougher.

[770] So it was a combination of things.

[771] And then the accent, I dropped the voice a little bit.

[772] to make myself sound a little tougher.

[773] Well, I agree with you a thousand percent that often the tough guy role is far more about your reaction to the adversary than it is about your attack towards them.

[774] Like, that's where you learn how many times someone's been in the shit.

[775] When it's happening, I see your face.

[776] That's where I learn everything.

[777] It's not in what you said to the guy to elevate this tension.

[778] Did you ever watch The Wire?

[779] Yeah, yeah.

[780] So for me, The Wire is incredible.

[781] And I'm watching it as an acting nerd, right?

[782] So you've got all these really believable tough guys in it.

[783] I think Idris Elba is doing an incredible job as Stringer Bell.

[784] It's so impressive.

[785] But then we get in the scene with Michael K. William.

[786] And we see Michael talk to him.

[787] And even though the size difference is enormous, what you realize is like Omar would kill this motherfucker.

[788] It's not like they declared a victor at the end of the scene.

[789] You just, you could feel by the reactions.

[790] Omar's amused by this guy posturing.

[791] And so likewise, I saw it in your show, too, because I want to hear what you think.

[792] about it.

[793] It's hard to be opposite Tom Hardy and not look like a clown.

[794] And you had all these incredible right of tats with him.

[795] This is the unstoppable force in the immovable object.

[796] What was it like doing those scenes with Tom?

[797] Well, every series, there's a few of those great two -handers that are again written exquisitely, but it becomes like a piece of theater.

[798] We cross -shoot them generally, which I think is always important.

[799] So it's not like your take, my take.

[800] So therefore, we can react in camera to each other the whole time.

[801] And then sometimes you'll get like 20, 25 minute takes.

[802] So there's total concentration.

[803] When you have an actor like Tom, it makes it really exciting to be in the room with him.

[804] We just kind of let loose.

[805] And I've known Tom for a long time now, so we have kind of an understanding and it always works really well.

[806] And exactly, as you said, they're so sort of diametrically opposed in their energies to Tommy and Alfie.

[807] Therefore, I think that's where they work well together in a scene.

[808] Yeah, you're like this sage wolf, and he's like a Wolverine.

[809] Yeah.

[810] This is so geeky and dumb in my obsession with masculinity, but the fact that you guys are so equal in those scenes, I find just highly impressive.

[811] I think it had to be all the way, like, without giving anything away, Tommy shoots him in the face at one point.

[812] And he still comes back, and he's still equal.

[813] That was a bit of a spoiler, apologies.

[814] Well, he died of syphilis on the show?

[815] No comment.

[816] Okay, okay.

[817] Well, Tom already died in, like, season three.

[818] I know, but he doesn't want to give anything.

[819] No, that's, I respect that, but I'm remembering it was syphilis.

[820] Maybe, though.

[821] They left them pretty old.

[822] Oh, my God.

[823] Okay, so he could come back from the dead, perhaps.

[824] The only thing I can compare this to maybe is like curb your enthusiasm, where you've been on this show now for eight years.

[825] But it's six seasons.

[826] What's it like to work on something for that long?

[827] What's it like to be in that haircut for that many years?

[828] Which is so cool at the beginning, but I can see at some point you'd be like, all right, I'm ready to not have this haircut.

[829] Well, the thing is.

[830] is we actually started shooting that at the end of 2012 and the sixth series will come out in 2022.

[831] So that's a decade.

[832] So it's a long time.

[833] And I still haven't quite processed it.

[834] I think when it's actually finished, maybe I'll process it.

[835] It was like being in a really violent boarding school.

[836] It's a unique thing to get old with the character, to see yourself get old on screen and then to kind of have your life develop and then, well, Tommy Shelby's life develops in a far more interesting and dramatic way than mine.

[837] But we were able to explore some of the middle -aged shit that happens to, particularly men, and they start realizing that they're losing their power, losing their masculinity, losing their potency, all of that stuff.

[838] And then, of course, it's a bit of a family in terms of the actors and some of the actors that started on that show.

[839] It was their first job out of drama school, and now they're really established successful actors.

[840] I've been able to do other bits in between, which has been nice.

[841] If I was only doing that show, I think maybe I would have a different attitude towards it.

[842] But it has been a real gift, you know.

[843] I was on a show once for six years.

[844] And prior to doing the show, I didn't want to do TV.

[845] Because what I loved about movies is going away and it's always novel.

[846] And I think about it for three months.

[847] Then it's over.

[848] I get to think about something new.

[849] But I came to find out I am a factory worker at heart.

[850] Like, I did love going to that lot for six years and knowing the guard.

[851] And like, that became a part that you don't generally get to experience as an actor.

[852] You've been with the show for 10 years.

[853] That's like a career in some other field.

[854] It's really unique.

[855] And by the end of the six years, were you glad that it was over then?

[856] Yeah, it was this great mix of like, I'm going to miss this so much.

[857] I know it won't get better than this.

[858] And yet, I'm now ready, of course, to see what's next.

[859] Yeah, I think that sums it up for me, too.

[860] Is this the last season or we don't know?

[861] This is the last season.

[862] I mean, Steve Knight is talking about a movie.

[863] I think that would be interesting if there was a film.

[864] It's the end of it in this form, for sure.

[865] It's kind of rare in British TV to do six seasons, isn't it?

[866] Like, you couldn't have been expecting this.

[867] No, I mean, it started off as a tiny little show on BBC 2.

[868] It was only commissioned for one series, and then the second series came along.

[869] And I think it was really when Netflix picked it up and it went global, it sort of started to snowball.

[870] But it never had any advertising.

[871] It was mostly the fans generated the interest.

[872] The fans generated the kind of love for it.

[873] Well, we hosted birthday parties in the theme.

[874] We posted pictures.

[875] You know, we did everything we could.

[876] Yeah, exactly.

[877] And thank you.

[878] You're just telling so much story over that many years.

[879] Did you ever worry, like, well, obtaining power is fascinating.

[880] The climb is fascinating.

[881] The struggle is fascinating.

[882] Who are we when we're on top?

[883] What does that do to things?

[884] And that can be said for us as individuals, too, like in real life.

[885] Like, it's a little dangerous to get to the top of the mountain.

[886] Yeah.

[887] What did you think about that as an actor in it?

[888] Like, how do I set my sights on something when I've peaked, I guess?

[889] Yeah, well, that is this sort of classic.

[890] story arc for those gangster shows, isn't it?

[891] Starting off on the streets, going legit, achieving power and having all the wealth and all the material wealth.

[892] And then I think what Steve did very well was he kind of made the story internal.

[893] He put a lot of it inside Tommy's head.

[894] So it was the dealing with that.

[895] And it was with the stuff that he had never addressed over the course of his life that kept coming back to bite him in the ass.

[896] I think that's very clever.

[897] So it's very much about Tommy's demons.

[898] There's obviously all these enemies that he has to deal with physically.

[899] But Steve does a very clever thing as well, where he interweaves real -life historical events into the narrative of the show.

[900] So we had a rise of fascism in Britain and woke that into the show, which is really clever.

[901] So then Tommy's sort of battling with a sort of an ideology as well as everything else.

[902] So he's just a very, very clever writer.

[903] And I think that's sustained it.

[904] Also, it isn't a room of writers.

[905] He's written 36 hours of the show, one writer.

[906] Get out.

[907] Oh, wow.

[908] Yeah.

[909] He's written every single script.

[910] Exactly, yeah.

[911] Here's the other thing.

[912] We always get the fully finished six scripts before we start shooting.

[913] Oh.

[914] Because, you know, you talk to your friends that work on television shows and they say, well, we had episode one and two, and then we just set off.

[915] That to be, I can't even imagine that.

[916] We always have fully finished six episodes.

[917] Oh, I've acted scenes that the scenes had been written, but the script wasn't written.

[918] Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

[919] It would make me feel like very unwell, the idea of that.

[920] It is interesting.

[921] You're in a movie paradigm or you're in a TV show paradigm, And then you're in some hybrid, as many of these limited series are, it's this weird hybrid, which, yes, generally if you do a movie, you're going to chart out where you're going to end.

[922] But TV weirdly is you're kind of living in the present.

[923] You don't know where it's going.

[924] I don't know if my character's going to get a disease or I'm going to get divorced.

[925] And there is something interesting that you have to find a confidence in yourself that, like, off story, I'm still interesting.

[926] Or off big trajectory, I can still find why this is worth me caring about.

[927] It's a challenge.

[928] Yes, it is, but that's why I think the little details become more interesting with the characters as they go on.

[929] It's their weaknesses and their desires and stuff that you could never really explore in a film.

[930] It's not really enough time for that, is there?

[931] But you get it in a novel.

[932] And they don't they say they're kind of like the novels of television, these long -running shows.

[933] You can go off into the detail of a minor character and follow them on a path, and that becomes fascinating.

[934] And they say that about movies, you know, the best writing in movies, you'd want to spend time with all the supporting characters.

[935] they could all have their spin -off.

[936] And I think that's true.

[937] There's also some element.

[938] And this is just me being a total fan and a geek, and I want to ask some geeky questions, which is the art was also simultaneously imitating life a little bit in that your show, as you just described, on BBC 2, no one's betting on that.

[939] But season one is very much Peaky Blinders.

[940] It's the gang Peeky Blinders, this little shit family group.

[941] They're not powerful.

[942] The show becomes a phenomenon.

[943] And I can almost feel it as, the family, the peekie blinders organization is gaining power, not in a bad way, but in the accurate way.

[944] You mean in the performances?

[945] Yes, like there's a little bit of pizzazz in some of the subsequent seasons that matches perfectly with the rise of them and the rise of the show.

[946] That's a very interesting observation.

[947] I think it's probably to do with gaining confidence going, oh, people actually find this interesting and they're really into it.

[948] And then you can be a bit bolder and a bit more ambitious and a bit bigger.

[949] in the storytelling.

[950] I think that probably definitely happened.

[951] Like even in the soundtrack, you know, all of a sudden we got all these people wanting to be on the soundtrack.

[952] So it did definitely gain confidence.

[953] I hope the story and the performances kept up with that.

[954] Well, it wouldn't work if the family was getting more and more disenfranchised and they were getting more and more cocky.

[955] But the fact that the family is succeeding, to me it all maps perfectly.

[956] I'd never been able to look at it from that perspective, I guess, because I'm so in it.

[957] Yeah.

[958] In fact, I feel bad.

[959] for you that you're in the show because it's so great.

[960] I know, but nobody likes looking at themselves.

[961] I can't watch it at all.

[962] You can't.

[963] No, although I became a producer on the show, so therefore I have to watch the cuts.

[964] And that's been an exercise because it's allowed me to begin to watch the bigger arc of the thing, not just yourself.

[965] I think it's so helpful for an actor to either become a producer or a director simply because you can understand in a way you can as an actor that the global story is as important as you being true in the moment.

[966] moment.

[967] So I think our instinct is a fight for the moment, and then the directors and producers are fighting for the overall story.

[968] It's great to find out that both have their place.

[969] They're both worth fighting for.

[970] Yeah, absolutely.

[971] I find myself saying way less like, my character wouldn't drink coffee at this time.

[972] Are you easy going on set?

[973] Are you like, no, Thomas doesn't drink out of round glasses?

[974] Oh, I don't know.

[975] You because it played him so much.

[976] I trust what he would do.

[977] Like, for example, there's something that happened on the show.

[978] He never, ever, no morsel of food passes his mouth over 36 hours.

[979] I think we got into season two and then we realized that he'd never eaten.

[980] So then we made a thing of it where he'll sit down at a meal, but he never consumes anything.

[981] He'll drink whiskey and smoke cigarettes, but that's it.

[982] I think he eats a little bit of mint in one.

[983] You're the opposite of Brad Pitt in Oceans 11.

[984] Brad Pitt loves eating, yeah.

[985] And he makes it look great.

[986] He always looks amazing, too, you know.

[987] You want to eat whatever he's eating, even if you're allergic to it.

[988] You're like, give me one of those.

[989] He looks awesome eating that.

[990] Well, Gilead, it's been so awesome to chat with you, and I'm so excited about Oppenheimer.

[991] Do you know where you're going to film that?

[992] I'm not sure.

[993] I'm sure they'll tell me, and I'll turn up.

[994] That might be something I try to crash, like just try to show up and watch you guys work.

[995] It's kind of a confluence of my favorite director, a story I love.

[996] love you as an actor.

[997] It's a very exciting proposition.

[998] Oh, well, thanks, man. I have one last question.

[999] I know you are largely quite private.

[1000] But I am the father of two girls, which I fucking love, thought I wanted boys, so grateful I had girls.

[1001] What is it like to be the father of two boys?

[1002] Because they're getting to an age where they're getting probably close to your size.

[1003] Yeah, they are.

[1004] They're getting taller to me now.

[1005] Oh, wow.

[1006] Yeah, that wouldn't be done hard though, in fairness.

[1007] But it's great, man. They have the same age gap that me and my brother have.

[1008] So it's nice to see them just being brothers and being pals.

[1009] They're 16 and 14.

[1010] You speak to them and you exchange preferences and opinions and talk to them about music and movies and things.

[1011] And they tell you things that you might never have known about.

[1012] That's really a nice development.

[1013] Oh, yeah.

[1014] How old are your girls?

[1015] Six and eight.

[1016] And I have to say, of the many delights in life, number one is watching them be kind to each other.

[1017] I don't know what it is about that experience.

[1018] Like, I can just watch them when they're getting along really well indefinitely.

[1019] It's just like the most comforting feeling like, oh, God, I guess maybe out of fear, maybe.

[1020] Like, I just pray they'll always look out for each other.

[1021] I won't be here forever.

[1022] And just something so comforting to know that they've got a buddy that they count on.

[1023] Yeah, so it's two years again, yeah.

[1024] No, my lads definitely kicked the shit out of each other quite often when they were younger.

[1025] but that's boys but uh no they're great pals now are they musicians no they appreciate music was there anything you were trying to foster in them like mine is i want my daughter to be a formula one racer because i always wanted to race and i didn't have enough money so how's that working out she rides a dirt bike incredibly she drives an off -road razor we're maybe going to start carting soon yeah we're approaching that it's still a possibility it is it is she's getting long in the tooth you should be racing go -carts by seven but we'll see if she really yes like all these guys lose hamilton all of them they all started at like six or seven wow do you have anything you hope to support them in because you desired it this is such a cliche but i just want them to be happy you know and confident kids that's all and to know themselves i think that's the most important thing and they're heading that way they're good boys but i try not to project my stuff onto them i try not to do that it's impossible not to do it entirely but just let them find the wrong own way.

[1026] It's so tempting.

[1027] I don't know about you and your wife.

[1028] My wife and I have identified which ones most like ourselves.

[1029] And then so, yes, I just start like, oh, I know how to help this person because we're so similar.

[1030] And maybe we're not nearly as similar as I think.

[1031] Yeah, well, that's the thing.

[1032] I think when we add kids, you know, you think, oh, there's one like me, one like you.

[1033] But in fact, there could be one like your wife's grandfather.

[1034] It can skip generations.

[1035] It doesn't necessarily come directly from the source.

[1036] You're so right.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] You latch on to these three things.

[1039] observe are similar and then you build this like a hundred point plan that they're identical or I'm tempted to.

[1040] Yeah, this is true.

[1041] Yeah.

[1042] Well, it's been so wonderful talking to you.

[1043] I'm waiting with bated breath for the new peekie blinders early 2022.

[1044] I hope that's on the early, early side of 2022.

[1045] I don't want to be waiting long.

[1046] I don't make these decisions feel fine now.

[1047] They're not having you do the scheduling, huh?

[1048] Well, great meeting you, Killian.

[1049] Yeah, thanks, guys.

[1050] This has been so fun.

[1051] I help I bump into you in real life.

[1052] That would be lovely.

[1053] I'll see you on the Oppenheimer set.

[1054] Yeah, cool.

[1055] See you then.

[1056] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1057] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1058] There's a real -time pitch to you and Wobb.

[1059] Okay.

[1060] Okay, so here's my idea.

[1061] I got it while I was getting a massage at a hotel.

[1062] Okay.

[1063] This did not happen to me. I want to be very clear.

[1064] This did not happen to me. I was seeing a lot of old boys around the pool.

[1065] And they were with their wives.

[1066] And I was thinking, hmm, these guys definitely take a bunch of Viagra on these weekends, safe to guess.

[1067] Okay.

[1068] Okay.

[1069] So then I was getting a massage.

[1070] Uh -huh.

[1071] And I was thinking, what if one of these old boys was like all banged up on Cialis and Viagra?

[1072] And he was laying there and just became a hundred percent erect while having a massage.

[1073] I'm sure it happens.

[1074] It must happen on these weekends at these nice hotels.

[1075] I'm sure it happens regularly in massages.

[1076] I think, though, well, I guess maybe a lot of this is informed by the commercials that I see, CEL's commercials, like, old boy and old gal, and they're like in a tub.

[1077] And it looks like they're at a resort.

[1078] It looks like it's like made for a lover's weekend.

[1079] Uh -huh, sure.

[1080] So I just imagine in that hotel, all the old boys are really jacked up.

[1081] Here's the point of all this.

[1082] This is my pitch to you guys.

[1083] You can say, yeah or nay.

[1084] but we pose a question we think of a fun thing that could have happened or not happened we pose it on Monday people email if that's happened to them okay and then we do a mini episode on like Wednesday where we talk to two or three people that have had really weird experiences arm cherries sounds better like Friday but yeah the day's irrelevant it's just you get out in the fact check the question and then you find out if this has happened to anybody and then we screen a few people and then we get on a zoom and we we hear the story we could be like there might be like a million great stories just laying out there yeah i guess my skepticism is how will we know they're being honest i think you can tell i like that idea i like that idea it'd be a really fun way to interact with armcherry yeah and hear really funny stories true or they don't even have to be funny some of them could be scowly oh pop -out yeah like when you tell one of your stories yours always sound like it's about to get real life or death but they don't they could they could that's right they're big on the could and not on the wood okay i like that's a thought so today's is a weird masseuse story oh we're just starting now i think so maybe it works maybe it doesn't work who knows there's no promises being made but okay if you've had an embarrassing situation where you're like oh Oh, fuck, I'm on way too much Cialis and Viagra and what other options there are for E .D. And all of a sudden, I'm fully erect and I'm embarrassed.

[1085] I don't know what to do.

[1086] I don't want to hear anything gross.

[1087] I don't want to hear of anyone, you know, putting a masseuse in a...

[1088] It would almost be better if it's male -on -mail.

[1089] It's like the dolphin thing.

[1090] I don't give a fuck if a male masseuse has to see a boner.

[1091] Right.

[1092] Right, right, right.

[1093] We don't care.

[1094] Okay, great.

[1095] Okay, mail -on -mail.

[1096] Mail -on -mail massage.

[1097] Uh -oh.

[1098] I'm fully erect.

[1099] What happens next?

[1100] Okay.

[1101] All right.

[1102] Putting it out there.

[1103] And then are they going to comment?

[1104] I'm going to have to create an email during this fact check that we tell people to email.

[1105] Okay, great.

[1106] We're going to give it a go.

[1107] Okay.

[1108] I'm going to say one thing to alleviate your concern, which is a very valid one.

[1109] Don't fucking make a story up.

[1110] Don't be an asshole.

[1111] Yeah, please don't.

[1112] Just don't be an asshole.

[1113] It'll be so much more fun for everyone if you're not an asshole and you only report something that's real and true.

[1114] Okay.

[1115] Okay.

[1116] That was a caveat.

[1117] I like that.

[1118] Killian.

[1119] He'll kill you with his face.

[1120] Killian Murphy.

[1121] Murphy is a ding, ding, ding for Interstellar.

[1122] Oh, it is?

[1123] Was that someone's name?

[1124] Yeah.

[1125] Was that his name?

[1126] No. Oh.

[1127] What was his name?

[1128] Cooper.

[1129] Cooper.

[1130] Hey, it's Cooper.

[1131] Yeah.

[1132] Thinking about heading up to space.

[1133] I'm going to, what was I fixing again?

[1134] I forgot.

[1135] The world was ending.

[1136] Yeah.

[1137] I'm going to go up to space and take a peep.

[1138] look around do dance maybe spin backwards fix this okay you're being patient i appreciate it okay cooper and dougar and murphy murphy murphy was the girl oh right oh yeah bar free no okay killian so we talked about industry towns how l .a is an industry town yeah and then i looked up 10 iconic U .S. Oh, this could be fun.

[1139] U .S. cities by industry.

[1140] Okay, well, right now, you and I both know five of them for sure.

[1141] Okay, tell me. Manhattan.

[1142] What is it?

[1143] New York City, and what's the key industry?

[1144] Finance.

[1145] That's right.

[1146] Easily, we go to Detroit.

[1147] We know that.

[1148] Hold on.

[1149] You want you to say, don't look.

[1150] Detroit.

[1151] It's there.

[1152] But you don't have to look.

[1153] I have to check.

[1154] But you know.

[1155] I want you to demonstrate how much you know.

[1156] Oh, you want you.

[1157] You want me to be confident?

[1158] Yeah.

[1159] Automobile.

[1160] Boom.

[1161] San Francisco.

[1162] San Francisco.

[1163] All right.

[1164] How about, yeah, San Francisco.

[1165] I don't know the industry there.

[1166] I'd say tech.

[1167] We'd have to include Silicon Bailey.

[1168] Well, I could be wrong, but I think I would imagine that.

[1169] That's probably on here, I'm sure.

[1170] Okay.

[1171] Yep.

[1172] San Francisco technology.

[1173] Oh, shit.

[1174] Coffee.

[1175] Well, that's a good one.

[1176] I'd say aerospace, Boeing.

[1177] What is Seattle on there?

[1178] Yeah, manufacturing, actually.

[1179] Oh, great.

[1180] Good job.

[1181] You could have also done tech there, Microsoft.

[1182] Right.

[1183] Or coffee.

[1184] Yeah, Starbys.

[1185] They had so many coffee shops when we were there.

[1186] Yeah, a lot of Starbys.

[1187] What, anything else?

[1188] Oh, yeah, let's keep going.

[1189] We know Hollywood.

[1190] Zanthum gum.

[1191] That I need a little bit of Xanthum gum.

[1192] By the way, Kristen's got some project loosely.

[1193] She read a short story.

[1194] It had to do with a sim.

[1195] And then Kristen said there should be a moment that both people know.

[1196] Like this is a big clue there in a sim.

[1197] And the writer said maybe both characters sing Xantham gum.

[1198] Uh -uh.

[1199] Yes.

[1200] So they listened to our show.

[1201] That's sweet.

[1202] Isn't that great?

[1203] Oh, my gosh.

[1204] And what an amazing example of simulation.

[1205] That's so, so great.

[1206] I thought about that.

[1207] that the other day that was impossible that's not possible if we need to remind people what happened yeah it was like you said you had been singing i said oh my god what are you singing i want to hear you said i won't yeah then you said i just tell you it's about xanthum gum uh -huh and then i hung up and then i called you back five minutes later and i said is this the song xanthum gum ba da da da da zantham and you fucking it wasn't even fun for you.

[1208] No, it was scary.

[1209] You thought I hit a microphone in your apartment, or I had tapped into your sonos, or I had hacked your TV.

[1210] Like, it was too much.

[1211] Because it's crazy.

[1212] It's crazy.

[1213] Okay, another city.

[1214] Orlando.

[1215] What are you going to?

[1216] Don't look, don't look.

[1217] But it's not on here.

[1218] But you know what is Orlando's breadmothers.

[1219] Theme parks.

[1220] Yeah, tourism.

[1221] Tourism.

[1222] Tourism.

[1223] Tourist town.

[1224] Okay.

[1225] St. Louis.

[1226] St. Louis.

[1227] Yeah, that's what I would say.

[1228] And then Milwaukee, this one's harder for you.

[1229] That could also be beer.

[1230] I don't know Milwaukee.

[1231] Harley Davidson.

[1232] Oh.

[1233] Okay, anyway.

[1234] Now, let's hear the real ones.

[1235] I thought that could be fun.

[1236] Okay.

[1237] New York City, finance.

[1238] You got that immediately.

[1239] This is a phone.

[1240] Boston education services.

[1241] Of course.

[1242] All those great, great colleges.

[1243] This was a big oversight.

[1244] D .C. That's the ultimate company.

[1245] Chicago.

[1246] See, this one, I was thinking about this one.

[1247] Let's let Wobby Waw.

[1248] Well, he's already on his computer.

[1249] Do you just look it up and you fucking cheat?

[1250] No, no, no, no. I didn't have this email.

[1251] Okay, what would you say Chicago's industry?

[1252] I just want to say pizza, but that's not right.

[1253] Well, they do the futures there, right?

[1254] Is that where the futures exchanges?

[1255] Okay.

[1256] Finance.

[1257] Okay.

[1258] But I just remembered another one.

[1259] Is Nashville on there?

[1260] Okay.

[1261] No. I think Nashville's insurance.

[1262] Oh, that's cool.

[1263] Okay.

[1264] Sorry.

[1265] I keep derailing.

[1266] No, no. Okay.

[1267] Chicago Financial Services, Detroit Automobile, manufacturing.

[1268] Houston.

[1269] This was interesting.

[1270] I didn't know this.

[1271] What would you guess?

[1272] I would never be able to guess this.

[1273] Hold on, hold on.

[1274] Oil.

[1275] Good job.

[1276] Thank you.

[1277] Refining.

[1278] Really good job.

[1279] Crude petroleum and natural gas extraction.

[1280] Okay.

[1281] Wow.

[1282] I'm impressed.

[1283] San Francisco technology.

[1284] Okay.

[1285] Las Vegas.

[1286] Technology.

[1287] gaming, tourism.

[1288] Tourism and casino hotels.

[1289] Man, you're good at this.

[1290] Los Angeles, motion picture and video production.

[1291] Capital S. Seattle, manufacturing.

[1292] And that's all.

[1293] That was fun.

[1294] You did a great job.

[1295] Thank you, thank you.

[1296] Thank you.

[1297] What would you say for Atlanta?

[1298] Beverages.

[1299] Beverages.

[1300] Beverages, not really, though.

[1301] It's only, but not really, because if there were multiple, but it's just Coke.

[1302] Cola.

[1303] I don't think it has one specific.

[1304] Music, big music scene.

[1305] Yeah, that's true.

[1306] Oh, Nashville.

[1307] Oh, yeah.

[1308] Country music specifically.

[1309] Country fucking music.

[1310] He said that Ireland has a 93 % vaccination.

[1311] Maybe at the time we talked that that's true is right now 81 .4%.

[1312] Well, couldn't have gone down.

[1313] Why?

[1314] Could maybe boosters included after that.

[1315] Huh.

[1316] I just don't know how you go from 91 % vaccinated down to 81.

[1317] A ton of babies.

[1318] But if...

[1319] But if they're counting...

[1320] That is a tricky statistic, people.

[1321] So one is a first shot number, and then another number's, you know, complete.

[1322] Or even second shot and then boosters here.

[1323] There's three shots here.

[1324] Right.

[1325] So your number might be, I don't know, completed and his was first shot.

[1326] Who knows?

[1327] Yeah.

[1328] Yeah, yeah.

[1329] Okay, the population of Cork, Ireland is 190 ,384.

[1330] That's a good chunk.

[1331] It's something.

[1332] That's a lot of colos.

[1333] Everyone's drinking two a day.

[1334] By the end of the week, you'll be looking at 2 .8 million colos.

[1335] What?

[1336] I wrote that down, but it's wrong.

[1337] This is saying 124 ,391.

[1338] Oh, okay.

[1339] Big discrepancy.

[1340] Okay.

[1341] St. Patrick's Day.

[1342] We talked about St. Patrick's Day.

[1343] Because he was saying, I don't know if people really know what it means, what it is.

[1344] What is it?

[1345] Okay, let's talk about it.

[1346] This is on history .com, trusted brand.

[1347] Very trusted.

[1348] St. Patrick's Day is celebrated annually on March 17th.

[1349] The anniversary of his death in the fifth century.

[1350] Who is his?

[1351] St. Patrick.

[1352] Correct.

[1353] But who is he?

[1354] He chased the snakes out of Ireland.

[1355] Who was St. Patrick?

[1356] Here we go.

[1357] St. Patrick, who lived during the 5th century, is the patron saint of Ireland and its national apostle.

[1358] Born in Roman Britain, he was kidnapped and brought to Ireland as a slave at the age of 16.

[1359] He later escaped but returned to Ireland and was credited with bringing Christianity to its people.

[1360] In the centuries following Patrick's death, believed to have been on March 17th, 461.

[1361] Wow.

[1362] The mythology surrounding his life became ever more ingrained in the Irish culture, Perhaps the most well -known legend of St. Patrick is that he explained the Holy Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, using the three leaves of a native Irish clover, the shamrock.

[1363] Oh, that's interesting.

[1364] That's interesting.

[1365] That's interesting.

[1366] More than 100 St. Patrick's Day parades are held across the United States.

[1367] New York City and Boston are home to the largest celebrations.

[1368] Does it say anything about chasing the snakes out of Ireland?

[1369] Okay, I got to do some more research on that.

[1370] I'll do St. Patrick and then snakes.

[1371] Would you do that, Rob?

[1372] Just double -check.

[1373] Oh, you're too busy creating an email?

[1374] I'm done that.

[1375] Okay, you've already completed that.

[1376] And what is it?

[1377] So it's going to be Stories at armchairexpertpod .com.

[1378] Stories at armchairexpertpod .com.

[1379] Stories, S -T -O -R -I -E -S at armchair expert pod .com.

[1380] Let's do subject, massage, or something like that, and then let's give a deadline as well.

[1381] Yep, massage.

[1382] And you got to get it in today Because we've got to move fast Okay Yeah Great And just give us You know a brief Four or five sentences What happened Great Oh also in the Let's get all the shit out of the way now In the email seat I grant you the right to record Me And we will set up a Zoom Great Yeah That should cover our asses legally right Yeah Patrick is depicted with his foot on a snake Okay Wait did you Is that real?

[1383] That's what I heard.

[1384] You really heard that.

[1385] He stood atop on Irish Hillside and banished snakes from Ireland.

[1386] Why did this just happen, you guys?

[1387] I just opened up my phone and I didn't type a thing.

[1388] I didn't say anything.

[1389] What is it?

[1390] I can't see from here.

[1391] Patrick depicted with his foot on a snake among the legends associated with St. Patrick's he stood atop Irish Hillside band the snakes from Ireland.

[1392] Computer connected maybe.

[1393] What?

[1394] Oh, because that's my account.

[1395] Well, but I'm on mine.

[1396] I'm on Chrome with my email, so it shouldn't...

[1397] What the fuck, look at that.

[1398] I didn't do shit.

[1399] I opened my phone.

[1400] And that's what you're looking at?

[1401] No, I'm not on.

[1402] I'm on Google.

[1403] What am I at?

[1404] Oh, did you email this?

[1405] I mean, what has happened?

[1406] No, I'm on the internet.

[1407] It says St. Patrick Snakes.

[1408] Whoa.

[1409] Maybe I said I'm going to Google.

[1410] Maybe you serried it or something.

[1411] But I have Siri off.

[1412] Holy shit.

[1413] I think.

[1414] You know you were making that up about snakes.

[1415] No, he says he banished snakes from Ireland.

[1416] It doesn't say that on history .com.

[1417] Prompting all serpents to slither away into the sea.

[1418] Well, I've been to Ireland.

[1419] I didn't see any snakes, so.

[1420] I should go there.

[1421] I hate snakes.

[1422] Yes, particularly the ones that make a home in your bottom.

[1423] Yeah, I don't like those especially.

[1424] Does Guinness raise your iron levels?

[1425] Oh.

[1426] Guinness has 0 .3 milligrams of iron per beer.

[1427] which is about 3 % of an adult's daily recommended iron intake.

[1428] Oh, that's great.

[1429] You only need to drink 33 to have 100 % of your eye?

[1430] That's right.

[1431] You're Ireland.

[1432] You're Ireland.

[1433] Oh, my gosh.

[1434] Wow, that was exciting.

[1435] Okay, Zappa.

[1436] That's a shoe store?

[1437] No. Oh, Frank Zappa.

[1438] Yeah, so you guys kept saying Zappa, and I was like, don't know, don't know, going to check later, and that's right.

[1439] Frank Zappa, American musician.

[1440] You know, I don't know him.

[1441] If you want a great introductory album to check out, Hot Rats.

[1442] Hot Rats, I see it right here, 1969.

[1443] Oh my God, ding, ding, ding.

[1444] Wow, he has four children.

[1445] They're named Moon.

[1446] Ahmed.

[1447] Amet.

[1448] Yeah, Amet.

[1449] Dweasel.

[1450] Yeah.

[1451] Oh, my God.

[1452] Why do you know this?

[1453] And, wait, Moon, Dweasel, Amet, and...

[1454] What's the fourth one?

[1455] Diva.

[1456] Oh, I didn't know Diva.

[1457] I'm...

[1458] How did you do that?

[1459] What's all Well the fucking sim is frying everything Well that With the computer thing And now you're saying dweasel That came out of my brain I'm so scared I know I'm at And you know dweasel I don't know deweasel but I know of dweasel and moon moon It's actually moon unit Zappa Right Do you guys hang out?

[1460] No Yeah moon unit That's great Wait But how can you remember a kind of random person's brothers and sisters' name?

[1461] I was a Zappa fan, but like I got the album Hot Rats 30 years ago, maybe 28 years ago.

[1462] And at some point I found out his kids name were Dweasel, Moon Unit, and I met, and I didn't realize Diva.

[1463] Oh, my God.

[1464] Oh, wow.

[1465] I'm shocked.

[1466] You're shook.

[1467] You're shook.

[1468] I can't believe.

[1469] I like when you say you're shook.

[1470] I'm shook.

[1471] Are you scared?

[1472] You're sad.

[1473] There's a lot of emotions coming up right now because I knew Moon Unit.

[1474] Well, that, you don't know stuff like that.

[1475] No?

[1476] Well, today I do.

[1477] You don't know people's names ever.

[1478] When you name your kid Moon Unit, I'll probably remember it.

[1479] If someone names their kid shitstick Smith, like, I don't know, who's Adam Smith, the economist.

[1480] If he named his kid's shit, shit, shit.

[1481] shit stick.

[1482] I'd probably just need to hear it once.

[1483] Listen, can we just be real that you have a hard time remembering people's names?

[1484] Names, yes.

[1485] Yeah.

[1486] We've talked about that out of here for sure.

[1487] That's not a bad thing.

[1488] It's just a quality about you.

[1489] So the fact that you knows Frank Zapp as children's names It's weird.

[1490] It's weird.

[1491] Yeah.

[1492] I don't even know Matt Damon's children's names.

[1493] Nor I, but I know David Bowie's kid's name.

[1494] Zoe Bowie.

[1495] Oh, wow.

[1496] One of the first Zoe's.

[1497] In the world?

[1498] Well, there was the Zoe and the Salinger.

[1499] Yeah, that's right.

[1500] But other than that, Zoe Bowie, well, and Jennings' kid, Shooter Jennings, great name, Shooter.

[1501] So it's mainly about if they're unique names.

[1502] Yeah, and I like them musically.

[1503] I'm probably somehow know their kid's names.

[1504] Oh, wow.

[1505] I'm not finding that David Bowie's daughter's name is Zoe.

[1506] Well, look harder.

[1507] Alexandra, Zahara Jones, and Duncan Jones.

[1508] Maybe he's Alexandra goes by Zoe.

[1509] Also how you spell in Zoe?

[1510] Well, Google corrected it to ZOE.

[1511] Try ZO, Doug, like Bowie.

[1512] Duncan, Zoe, Haywood, Jones is the son.

[1513] I accept your apology.

[1514] I accept it.

[1515] Okay, moving on.

[1516] Clockwork Orange.

[1517] Ah, sure.

[1518] In 1973, Kubrick himself disheartened by continuing protest.

[1519] Bands a Clockwork Orange in the United Kingdom because he was wondering if it was banned there.

[1520] Oh, this is sad The rape of a Dutch girl Shortly thereafter At the hands of men singing Quote singing in the rain As Alex does Convince as many That Kubrick's decision was wise What do they call that something?

[1521] Censoring Well, sure Sure, sure But when people mimic a crime They call that something Oh, copycat killer Yeah Yeah CCK Copycat killer Would that be a cute nickname you.

[1522] I'm the capricat killer.

[1523] Like, oh my gosh.

[1524] So maybe that's megalis, big nemesis is copycat killer.

[1525] Okay.

[1526] Jason Statham for peeky blinders.

[1527] You thought he was in the running.

[1528] Okay.

[1529] And, and he said, no, he didn't think so.

[1530] Okay.

[1531] And I don't have confirmation.

[1532] One way or another.

[1533] Yeah.

[1534] I didn't get in touch with him.

[1535] Yeah.

[1536] What a physique, Jason Statham.

[1537] It is so good.

[1538] And if you're listening, Jason, I'd argue it could be even a micron better if you swing on into Dan Gaines V -Poss over at the hashtag Black Mold Paradise.

[1539] Oh, my God.

[1540] Okay, when did Lewis Hamilton start carting?

[1541] It says here, 1993.

[1542] Okay.

[1543] And he was born in...

[1544] Oh, let me guess.

[1545] Yeah, I guess.

[1546] If he started carting in 1993, I'm going to say he...

[1547] He was born in 1987.

[1548] No, in 1988.

[1549] 85.

[1550] Oh, he was a late carter.

[1551] That's why I wanted to check it.

[1552] Eight years old.

[1553] Because you were saying that everyone has to get in really young.

[1554] Yeah.

[1555] I think Max was carding at four.

[1556] Let me find out.

[1557] Versedappi.

[1558] Max Verstappi.

[1559] That motherfucker was racing in Formula One at 16.

[1560] Dang.

[1561] Sheesh.

[1562] He was busing on that cart.

[1563] Whoa.

[1564] As a two -year -old.

[1565] Oh, yes.

[1566] Even better.

[1567] Even better.

[1568] Verstappen drove quad bikes around the family garden.

[1569] Also, family garden, I'm sorry, he totally would have gone to Carnegie Mellon.

[1570] A couple of years after an incident involving one of his bikes, his parents took him to the carting track near their home in gank.

[1571] Age four, he saw a younger friend carting and asked his father if he could have a cart.

[1572] For Stappan's father, bought him a go -kart when he was four and a half.

[1573] See, that's where the money comes in.

[1574] Like I wanted to fucking go -kart at 5 as well Just didn't get one I know it's a very rich sport I mean it worked out for me anyways I'm too big Still I could have it could have stunned your growth I could have been a carding champ They might have engineered you Yeah Verstappen won his first race at age 7 Oh my gosh A year before Lewis was in the cart Yeah crazy And I think he won race at 17 in Formula 1 I am keep sending you down these rabbit holes I apologize but I think he might be the youngest F -1 race winner Formula 1 career Is Max the youngest driver?

[1575] Age 17 years and three days Verstappen was the youngest person in history to participate in a Formula one race weekend.

[1576] Oh, wow.

[1577] Became the youngest driver to start a world championship race.

[1578] Youngest world champion was Sebastian Vettel.

[1579] Vettel.

[1580] Vettel at 23 years old.

[1581] Then Lewis at 23, 300 days.

[1582] Oh, wow.

[1583] Wow, wow.

[1584] That's all.

[1585] Oh, youngest F1 race winner, which is different than world champion, is max at 18.

[1586] Oh, 18.

[1587] 18, won his first race.

[1588] 18 years, 228 days.

[1589] Oh, my Lord.

[1590] Can you imagine at 18?

[1591] You were, well, fuck, you were doing the same thing, getting them trophies.

[1592] I don't even know why I asked that.

[1593] Accumulating some rings.

[1594] Yeah, I was like asking, I was asking you to stretch your mind and imagine.

[1595] You didn't even need to.

[1596] already had two rings by then.

[1597] Yeah, you already ringed up.

[1598] But being in the number one sport in the whole world with the best adult drivers in the world.

[1599] I'm surprised you don't have more mixed feelings around F1 because you love it so much because driving, come on.

[1600] And Drive to Survive is a good show.

[1601] But it is for privileged kids.

[1602] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1603] So I'm surprised you're like.

[1604] Yeah.

[1605] Of course, Lewis wasn't privileged.

[1606] Exactly.

[1607] But he also got a ton of.

[1608] support pretty early on, which was helpful.

[1609] And he did have a dad who got him a cart, ultimately.

[1610] Yeah.

[1611] Not privileged as he was.

[1612] Yeah.

[1613] That would have cut him to my dad's Corvette money.

[1614] He had a red Corvette.

[1615] He can't part with that.

[1616] No, no, no, no. He's got ladies to meet.

[1617] But, oh, right, so it's kind of privilege yet I like it.

[1618] That's the quandary.

[1619] It's not like you necessarily to be attracted to that.

[1620] I agree.

[1621] But if you look at the drivers, they're kind of rough and ragged.

[1622] Like, they are representing the most high -class, expensive sport ever.

[1623] But, like, when you look at polo players, they look like fucking polo players when they're off the horse.

[1624] Yeah.

[1625] They're in collared shit, and they're acting prim and proper, and they're at these outdoor parties.

[1626] You know, Danny's on a farm fucking riding dirt bikes.

[1627] But Danny, to me, is an exception.

[1628] He's like, fun.

[1629] Me. Yeah.

[1630] And Max, though, is his fucking tail number on his jet is DTF.

[1631] There's no polo player or Carnegie Mellon fucking dean of admission.

[1632] that would have DTF as their tail number on their plane.

[1633] Yes, that's true.

[1634] So that's what gets me, like, I kind of like those guys.

[1635] Now, the brass of the sport and that kind of stuff can be a little triggering to me. But the guys themselves are just kind of maniac kids.

[1636] Yeah, I guess that's true.

[1637] That's true.

[1638] Most of them have pretty darn good personalities.

[1639] Like, Vetto, who you just mentioned, he's so funny and likable.

[1640] I don't personally think if you're rich, you have a bad personality, or if you grew up with privilege, you have a bad personality.

[1641] bad personality, but I know just it's triggering for you.

[1642] It is, it is.

[1643] But you're overcoming it obviously.

[1644] Yeah.

[1645] And also, it is a meritocracy.

[1646] So it's like their dad can't, well, some of their dad's by a man. It's a meritocracy within a group, though.

[1647] That's true.

[1648] Ultimately, they have to perform.

[1649] I guess I just mean in the sports world of all of them.

[1650] And I love Fland.

[1651] Don't get me wrong.

[1652] But I think that's like kind of the beauty of the NBA or something.

[1653] Yeah.

[1654] Or maybe even the NFL you could say like baseball all of our sports yeah and it's um and i stand here saying that like if lincoln expressed interest in carding she'd have a cart tomorrow yeah and i'd spend all my time with her and if she got great some young dax would be like well fuck that bitch she was it was all given to her i'm not saying that i'm not saying it should be like fuck those guys it's just as a sport when you look at it like when i think about my respect level for the whole thing I guess I just have more of a soft spot for the ones where, like, people could really fucking rise above.

[1655] Yeah, I like that too.

[1656] Yeah.

[1657] I love that, but I love that one.

[1658] I love you.

[1659] I love you.

[1660] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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