S1 E12: Answers = Healing

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] This podcast is intended for mature audiences and could be triggering to some.

[11] Please use discretion when listening.

[12] Once a victim discovers they are in a relationship with a sociopath or an abuser, they begin to create a relationship exit strategy.

[13] And though eventually, with a broken ties with their abuser, the hard work to recovery begins.

[14] There is more than one way to recover from an abusive relationship.

[15] you must discover what's most healing and safe for you.

[16] When one discovers they have been living inside an abuser's manufactured reality, a victim often seeks to find answers.

[17] This is because gaslighting is so effective, the victim no longer trusts their memory, perception of relationships, or their ability to see the world as it actually is.

[18] Sarah wrote on her blog this past week, Unraveling situations and scenarios over the past nine months has brought so much peace.

[19] Rather than beating a dead horse, taking time to figure things out has helped solidify the ground beneath my feet.

[20] The more I piece together, the more freedom and healing comes.

[21] It has nothing to do with exposing him as a person, but everything to do with reconstructing my own sense of reality, up from down, right from wrong.

[22] With opening the eyes of anyone who reads this and needs it, your freedom and empowerment matters.

[23] You matter.

[24] Your preferences, feelings, quirks, looks, secrets, weaknesses, strengths.

[25] They all matter.

[26] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is, something was wrong.

[27] You think you know me, you don't know me where at all.

[28] Honestly, and I know that not everybody is going to agree with me, but with my beliefs, too, and my, you know, Christianity in here, I'm looking at the pattern.

[29] Yes, he has a pattern, but yes, in my mind, God has a pattern of rescuing those that he has targeted.

[30] I know his ex -fiancee's story, and it is a straight -up miracle, the way that she got out.

[31] And I feel that same way about mine.

[32] I mentioned this one of my blog posts that I know where my head was at when everything came crashing down, and I know that I was so far gone.

[33] I probably still would have tried to make it work, just thinking, I've missed something and we're going to fix it.

[34] So I have this like in my gut, as I'm learning now, you know, usually right.

[35] I have this gut feeling that at some point down the road, she is going to come out of it.

[36] I'm praying with minimal damage.

[37] I mean, his ex -fiance is also, she feels the same way.

[38] And yet there's sometimes where she says, Sarah, we've got to be real and face the music.

[39] He's probably, odds are, he's probably going to make it down the odds.

[40] someday with someone because if he keeps getting smarter and keeps trying because he got a lot more strategic with me than he did with her with her to her face he said mean and cruel things with me he learned hmm can't do that doesn't work let's come up with fake people so who knows what ideas this new girl has and what you know methods he's using with her so I'm kind of honestly taking it a month at a time and I'm just sort of seeing where things go so January 31st, I get a message on Instagram from, let's call her Lulu, she basically, in terms of like pattern of behavior, she spoke to many of the same things.

[41] This was right before, a few months before meeting Sarah.

[42] So he's still dating his ex -fiance.

[43] Could be dating other people.

[44] We don't know.

[45] So first, I get a message and it just had photos.

[46] You know, like you go to a message on instant it just has the blue photo and there was like three of them and then underneath it said hurts my whole heart to hear how he met and hurt sarah so completely just a few months after him and i met we only went on a few dates but i feel so close to the story you're telling thank you for the work you're doing she had found the podcast because she had after they broke up saw his Instagram and was floored that he was already engaged to somebody else because she did have a lot of red flags and feel really strange they went on like two dates and before they even went on their first date they met on hinge he looked up her pastor and on the first date critiqued her pastor and church first date like took the went on the like church's website or whatever researched it so that he could start dismantling her from date one okay so the first screenshot she sent me as from March 12th 2017 right before they were going on a date.

[47] LOL so you so excited see you in 58 minutes he says okay two days later so two days after their first date he says whisper voice in stars pst hey over here see I'm looking for this butterfly inducing beautiful quirky yet captivating wonderful woman of God.

[48] Do you know where I could find her?

[49] My hope was to take her out this weekend.

[50] You know, maybe see Beauty and the Beast and dinner, or maybe not.

[51] I just want to see her again.

[52] If you find her today, you should tell her I think she's some kind of wonderful and that I'd like to steal her away.

[53] Oh, and tell her good morning that she looks beautiful and she's fearfully, wonderfully made.

[54] Okay, I got to go.

[55] Whisper voice.

[56] Again, whisper voice in the little stars.

[57] She's you.

[58] She said, oh, he was late for one of their dates.

[59] And he's like, sorry, running 10 minutes late.

[60] Apparently everyone had to come to the Whole Foods, see you soon.

[61] And she wrote, and from the guy who says he's never late, dot, dot, dot.

[62] He said, ooh, a little sass, heart emoji eyes.

[63] Okay.

[64] The next day, thank you for a wonderful evening.

[65] You are some kind of amazing.

[66] In my attempt to not add too much cheesy, I forgot to tell you that you looked gorgeous.

[67] The butterflies were quite real, L .O .L. I'm sure you'll be asleep, so good night, sweet dreams, and as always, thinking of you.

[68] She does not respond.

[69] So Dick says on March 25, 2017 to her, hope you had a wonderful week.

[70] She writes, Hi, Dick.

[71] I'm truly sorry.

[72] I've been so M. I appreciate your kindness.

[73] He writes back, hey pretty lady, glad to know you're alive.

[74] Ben praying for you.

[75] No worries, exclamation point.

[76] I'm sure things came up.

[77] Appreciate you, two exclamation points.

[78] The next day, he writes her.

[79] Hey, beautiful.

[80] I hope you had an amazing Monday.

[81] God is good.

[82] Two exclamation points.

[83] Woo, exclamation point, thinking about you.

[84] Hope you're doing wonderful.

[85] Would love to see you again.

[86] exclamation point that's March 27th April 1st so four days later and she's just not responding no response from her just crossed my mind exclamation point hope you're well exclamation point give it a rest June 28th when was the last one that one the last one cross my mind exclamation point hope you're well exclamation point April 1st Lulu was like is this a joke is this a April full's joke then June 28th he sends her another text that says what's up stranger after she has not responded to his last four text messages over months of periods of time oh wow and then because she wasn't responding he goes to her instagram and scrolls down to photos that she posted like years ago no and starts liking old photos of her always a good move if you don't want to be a creep so she blocked him instantly That's how she felt.

[87] The girl who he was dating when we know flew with him to San Diego.

[88] I don't know if she actually went or not.

[89] I know that she called in to change her reservation.

[90] Oh, so she might not have even gone.

[91] I don't think she ended up going with him.

[92] No. They met in late July and I think she called it off two or three months later so August, September.

[93] I think she said that they called it off in like I want to say early October early September, but she didn't end up going with him, I'm pretty sure.

[94] and again he moved way too fast he seemed addicted to work and she had been previously engaged to an abusive partner yeah so one of the things she said in your original like first few messages was that that she had been previously engaged to an abusive partner and they called it off like she found out a bunch of stuff and also called off a wedding like very kind of not very similar but you know she was like I relate and and I wonder if that played into her ability to see those signs sooner.

[95] She seemed the most experienced and she is very much on her guard.

[96] I mean, she was very careful even with me, not nearly as open as a lot of other people have been.

[97] And she has dated a lot of people in military and so she now has a habit of, she'll do a background check or check up on someone in the first couple of dates.

[98] Like she's one of those kind of people and I don't see anything wrong with that at all because of what she's been through.

[99] I hadn't, you know, now I probably.

[100] will or I will at least check with other people and say, hey, you know this person?

[101] I honestly don't think now that I'll go out on a date with somebody that I don't have any mutual friends with ever again.

[102] But anyway, she was very uncomfortable with how quickly he moved.

[103] He had no margin to date, she said.

[104] He worked so much that she was just like, you can't date.

[105] Also uncomfortable with his reckless driving.

[106] She called him out on it.

[107] And I think there were some things that he said or did that she said, I don't want to be treated that way.

[108] I don't want you to do those certain things around me. And she said that he complied.

[109] And I was surprised that he did.

[110] But, you know, it's early phases.

[111] He's still playing games.

[112] So he's still wanting to be, you know, night and shining armor.

[113] But I think also that she noticed, yeah, he was, he spent a lot of money within the first couple of weeks of them dating.

[114] She was on his Uber accounts.

[115] I think both like driving wise.

[116] like ride -wise and Uber Eats, maybe.

[117] She was on a trip, had a weird Airbnb experience with a friend, and they either FaceTime or called, and he arranged, he paid for a hotel for her and her friend, and just really pulled out all the stops to take care of her.

[118] But this was very, very early on.

[119] And that's when I told her, yeah, now that I think back, I remember within like a month or within a few weeks of us dating, he had opened up a simple bank account and had a card mailed to me and he was depositing $200 a month into this account and I went, what are you doing and why?

[120] I'm sorry, do I come across as if I can't pay my rent?

[121] And oh, no, no, if you just ever need anything or if you want a little extra and you know, anything one month or want some help, it'll just be there for you in case you need anything.

[122] It felt like an allowance and I don't, I thought, Are you kind of treating me like, you know, that, I don't know, it sounds so weird, but like a side.

[123] I just felt kind of demeaning.

[124] And I was like, thank you, but I don't need an allowance.

[125] I've been living on my own for 10 years now.

[126] I'm fine.

[127] And you go, oh, just then go buy yourself something nice.

[128] And again, that felt demeaning, something about it.

[129] Just felt patronizing.

[130] That's what it felt like.

[131] And I noticed, I never, I only used that card twice.

[132] And once was on a gift for him and the other time was on a dinner for the two of us.

[133] because I think it was either the dinner I took him out to when he got his new job or something else where I was celebrating him and I went, fine, let's compromise because he hated when I would pay for things.

[134] But Kimmy was always like, yeah, there's something to be said about a woman who can pick up the tab every once in a while.

[135] It's always, what did he say?

[136] I love it when a woman has something to bring to the table is what he said.

[137] Because they usually don't.

[138] Yeah, we're not really worth a whole lot.

[139] I mean, people wouldn't be here without us, but that's just a side note.

[140] But he stopped transferring.

[141] Serenity now.

[142] Deep breaths.

[143] Deep breathes, deep breathes.

[144] Deep breaths.

[145] I think I noticed sometime in like December or November, the transfer stopped.

[146] And I was like, there's less money in this than there should be.

[147] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[148] I'm Sachi Cole.

[149] And I'm Sarah Haggy.

[150] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery, that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once a facade falls away.

[151] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[152] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[153] To the infamous scams of real housewife stars like Teresa Judici, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[154] Follow scam influencers on the Wendry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[155] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.

[156] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[157] She had been under the influence and she left him there.

[158] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[159] It was alleged that after an innocent, sent night out for drinks with friends.

[160] Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[161] What happens next?

[162] Depends on who you ask.

[163] Was it a crime of passion?

[164] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[165] This was clearly an intentional act.

[166] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[167] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[168] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[169] Everyone had an opinion.

[170] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[171] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[172] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[173] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[174] Join Wondery Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcast, or Spotify.

[175] The most unexpected part of covering the story for me is how close I've become with Sarah and Alyssa.

[176] I feel a deep friendship, connection, and sisterhood with them that is unique and healing to us all.

[177] Sarah has inspired and helped people from around the world, 63 countries thus far to be exact.

[178] Sarah has inspired me to share more of my story too.

[179] I know how difficult it is to recover from psychological abuse and trauma, as I was raised by two emotionally abusive parents.

[180] My biological father has antisocial personality disorder, which I didn't find out until I was an adult.

[181] I mean, I knew that he was the craziest, most abusive, conniving, volatile, violent, and disturbed master manipulator I'd ever met, but I didn't know there were scientific terms for such things.

[182] I didn't know what typical parents acted like, as I only knew the world I lived in.

[183] My father was, and likely, still is, but I don't know because I don't have contact with my family anymore, a grifter, criminal, and substance abuser.

[184] My mother is a textbook narcissist that went from a very abusive childhood herself into extremely abusive marriages, coping with drugs and alcohol.

[185] When my father was in prison, he tried to catfish me. He sent a typed letter from a fake inmate pretending to be, quote, a friend of your father's, and tried to manipulate me into doing his bidding and sending him money.

[186] I knew right away that the letter was fake, because at that point in my life I had learned enough about sociopathy and had found some answers to my questions about his lies, illegal activity, and manipulations.

[187] Being tricked, for lack of a better term, by someone you love, is a feeling I still don't know exactly how to describe.

[188] If I tried, I'd summarize it as betraying, humiliating, and insulting.

[189] I'll be 33 next week, and I'm still unpacking.

[190] the memories, trauma, and pain of growing up with sociopathic, narcissistic, and emotionally abusive parents.

[191] I think part of what drew me to telling Sarah's story is that I knew I could be empathetic towards her in a way that only someone who has lived through a similar experience can.

[192] There are some who might listen to this podcast and think, that's it, and likely that's because they've never been mentally assaulted or a victim of prolonged gaslighting in an interpersonal relationship.

[193] This podcast isn't for them.

[194] One of our listeners, Genevieve, wrote me a message I will not soon forget.

[195] It read, abuse can seem banal and mundane and like no big deal.

[196] In this culture of murder podcasts, we expect some big reveal.

[197] He had a woman stashed in the basement.

[198] He came after Sarah with a hatchet, something shocking, insane, and over the top.

[199] And the truth is, more often than not, it's not that.

[200] It's quiet.

[201] And, consistent and abusive and ruining.

[202] The truth you're trying to get at is that it's not a splashy, headline -worthy story.

[203] It's worse than that.

[204] It's insidious and culturally explained away.

[205] Way scarier than the boogeyman.

[206] The messages and voicemails Sarah and I received from other survivors has been the best part about this experience for us both.

[207] As I mentioned in previous episodes, we created a phone line for listeners to share voicemails with us, and I want to share some of those incredible messages with you now.

[208] Hi, my name is Ray.

[209] I live in New York, and I wanted to share a message with you about your podcast.

[210] Hi, Tiffany and Sarah.

[211] I'm so glad you're doing this podcast, and I want to thank you for telling my story along with yours.

[212] I was also engaged to a sociopath.

[213] Every time Sarah expresses the clarity she has now about Dick's manipulations, I feel a bolstering flash of brightness.

[214] The way she describes Dick casting her having her own feelings and opinions as this grave concerning character flaw she needs his help with was thoroughly familiar to me. One thing you've really targeted that I feel like I needed to hear is the idea of, yeah, I guess all the people who love me have been easy on me and now someone is really challenging me to grow and see my flaws resulting in a loss of temerity.

[215] The story about her sister and the hotel thermostat actually made me cry because I was so moved that when Sarah didn't have access to her natural bold personality, her sister stepped in and played that part for her.

[216] I love how involved your family is in analyzing this man's behavior.

[217] I know my family wishes they had done more of that.

[218] I have this visual of your family as this healthy organism, retelling the story of the time it was almost overwhelmed by a fungus that slipped through its immune system.

[219] Anyway, thank you so much for your work.

[220] I look forward to hearing more of the story.

[221] Hi, my name is Allison.

[222] I've been listening to your podcast, and I just love it.

[223] I relate to it more than I would like to admit.

[224] I was not as lucky as Sarah, and I actually married my abuser.

[225] And after I filed for divorce and restraining orders, I found out that my ex is schizophrenic.

[226] We do have a child together.

[227] It's been a whole crazy three years.

[228] So many things echoing the same thing Sarah went through and so many things, even crazier.

[229] So just thank you for doing what you're doing.

[230] I'm Dan Tversky.

[231] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[232] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[233] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[234] She's like, I can't.

[235] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[236] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[237] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[238] Everybody thought I was holding something bad.

[239] Well, you were holding.

[240] something back intentionally.

[241] Yeah, yeah.

[242] Well, yeah.

[243] No, it's hysteria.

[244] It's all in your head.

[245] It's not physical.

[246] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[247] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[248] Or is it something else entirely?

[249] Something's wrong here.

[250] Something's not right.

[251] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[252] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[253] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[254] You can binge all episodes.

[255] of hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[256] I guess I'm calling to share my story.

[257] First off, I just want to say I've been absolutely loving your podcast and really enjoying the way you go about sharing.

[258] So my story started in my, I think I was 16 or 17 years old.

[259] I had recently come out as bisexual and started dating a girl at the time that went to the high school I was at.

[260] And, you know, we actually started connecting primarily because she was in a rocky relationship with someone else.

[261] So anyways, I began this relationship very soon after, probably two weeks after she had broken up with someone who she had been with for, I believe at least.

[262] least two years and jumped right into another relationship.

[263] So, and this was a pattern she had done in the past and continues to do to this day.

[264] So we began this relationship and actually I let down my guard and explained to her that I had gone through some sexual abuse in the past, you know, shared some pretty vulnerable parts of that and explained the situation and just let her know to be a little fragile with me at time.

[265] You know, from the start, something was wrong.

[266] something was off and I kind of knew in my gut that it was a bad relationship.

[267] But the post telling her, you know, this most vulnerable, you know, hurt side of me, she used it to control me a lot of the times, you know, asking very specific questions of what happened and why didn't you do this and why didn't you do that?

[268] Or, you know, what's the situation?

[269] Just, just the most gruesome details that, you know, you wouldn't even tell your closest friend.

[270] And she used it against me a lot.

[271] You know, she used it to take control over me because it didn't have anyone that I could necessarily go to to find comfort in what I was going through.

[272] And so she was also the person to go through that, to find that comfort.

[273] So not only was she the one inflicting the pain and the hurt, you know, of bringing all of this awful stuff up from the past, But she was the one that wanted and provided the comfort.

[274] So, you know, a very twisted way of doing things.

[275] The other big red flag for me was she used mental illness and her depression as a way to control me. You know, so she used her depression against me consistently, you know, saying things like, oh, but if you go hang out with your friends, what if I'm here stuck alone and then I hurt myself or I want to kill myself?

[276] or, you know, whatever it may be.

[277] Now, keep in mind, we were, you know, 16, 17 at the time.

[278] So something like that, you know, a lot of 16, 17 -year -olds go through things like that.

[279] But basically, it was really isolating.

[280] You know, I completely cut off all friendships, all family relationships I had, and spent every single day with this girl because I was afraid that she was going to harm herself if I was not there to keep an eye on her.

[281] It was to the point where, you know, she would ask me to face -time her while she was in the shower to make sure that she wouldn't hurt herself.

[282] You know, just a lot of pressure that a 16 or 17 -year -old should not be, you know, having.

[283] You know, no one should be the sole person that you, you know, follow my every move so that I don't hurt myself.

[284] And if I do, it's your fault type of scenario.

[285] So I haven't taken a day off work since December, and next week is my husband and I's birthdays.

[286] So for this reason, the bonus Q &A episode will not be released until the following week.

[287] I'll be asking listeners to share their questions on Instagram.

[288] My Insta handle is linked in the show notes.

[289] Something was wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me. Tiffany Reese.

[290] All of the music this season is by the band Gladrags.

[291] A special thank you to Sarah, her family, and friends for participating in this series.

[292] Check out Sarah's personal blog, Space and Purpose, linked in the show notes.

[293] Thank you to Alyssa and Ryan Doyle for their time, support, and hype.

[294] Shout out to my husband Michael and our three amazing children, Jude, Ruby, and Ozzie, for cheering me on every step of the way.

[295] Subscribe now and follow the hash hashtag something was wrong pod on Instagram.

[296] If you like something was wrong, and you're not a troll, please consider leaving a five -star review and sharing the podcast with any human you've ever met.

[297] We will soon be recording an AMA Q &A episode, and we'd love to hear your questions.

[298] If you would like to ask a question, please give us a call at 1 .3 -3 -379 -5 -6 -78, and leave us a voicemail with your first name, location, and question.

[299] Your voicemail might be shared on a future episode.

[300] If you or someone you know is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1 -800 -799 Safe.

[301] If you like something was wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[302] Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon Music.

[303] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.