Armchair Anonymous: Stalking (Part 2)

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[3] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous.

[4] Boy, I know people are impatiently awaiting this.

[5] Part one of stalking was like we put out Dr. Death or something.

[6] The comments were like people screamed, they pulled their car over to breathe for a while.

[7] That was such a pop out.

[8] Oh, my Lord.

[9] Yeah.

[10] Part two delivers too.

[11] And almost made me think that we could have a whole show about stalking.

[12] Probably, which is such a bummer.

[13] It is a bummer.

[14] I think I was nervous putting out the first one because I'm like, it's such a rough topic.

[15] Implicit in it is someone getting scared out of their mind because of somebody.

[16] Yeah.

[17] But then when I realized, like, no, we love, it's like murder shows.

[18] It is.

[19] It's true crime.

[20] It's true crime.

[21] We love true crime.

[22] We love true crime.

[23] And I hate this crime because it's almost impossible to convict anyone of anything.

[24] That is the through line for sure.

[25] It's like true crime, but maddening true crime.

[26] Okay, so this is stalking part two.

[27] Please enjoy.

[28] Oh, times.

[29] Come and go.

[30] Take them slow.

[31] You got to know, I'm going to keep on shining.

[32] Hi.

[33] How are you?

[34] I'm well.

[35] How are you?

[36] Good.

[37] Where are you?

[38] Austin, Texas.

[39] Oh, baby.

[40] We love that.

[41] My home away from home.

[42] Oh, so you're in a beautiful fort.

[43] A homemade TP, kind of.

[44] Thank you.

[45] Lovely.

[46] How long have you been in Austin?

[47] 20 years, almost.

[48] Oh, wow.

[49] Okay, you have a stalking story?

[50] Yeah.

[51] We don't know what to expect now.

[52] Yeah, we're halfway through.

[53] We won't make any assumptions.

[54] Yeah, yeah.

[55] So I wanted to preface with, I will end on an upswing.

[56] Okay.

[57] Thank you.

[58] Good to know.

[59] It's going to get a little low for a bit.

[60] Sure.

[61] I am going to go by Skyler, if that's okay.

[62] Great, Skylar, love it.

[63] Connected to Good Well Hunting because that's also my favorite movie.

[64] Oh, fuck yes.

[65] Hunting Sisters.

[66] Hunting Sisters, Ben and Matt.

[67] Yes.

[68] So I grew up with a really, really strong familial connection.

[69] Have a big family.

[70] Everything's wonderful.

[71] I have huge, great memories of childhood.

[72] I will say that.

[73] And I'm very loved.

[74] However, there was a bit of a turn starting from, pretty much the beginning of me being able to form a memory.

[75] We had someone who would stock our entire family, including our immediate family, so myself, my parents, as well as people in our extended family.

[76] So she had a job that had access to this was late 80s, 90s.

[77] And was it in Texas?

[78] Yes.

[79] I don't want to be able to where.

[80] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[81] Her job gave her access to people's addresses and phone numbers at the time.

[82] So she was able to track down our family members and would call obsessively.

[83] This was pre -aller ID, pre -cell phones.

[84] So this is your home line being obsessively called all hours of the day.

[85] And this is like our whole family.

[86] So it escalated to she would come to our homes.

[87] We would come out to go to preschool and work.

[88] And all of the windows in our cars would be smashed.

[89] Oh, God.

[90] Did she have a connection to you guys?

[91] That will come in.

[92] Oh, great, great, great, great, great.

[93] Okay.

[94] It's one of the many twists.

[95] Are you Latina?

[96] Yes.

[97] Were you thinking this was like racially motivated at all?

[98] Or what was the explanation for why someone would be vandalizing?

[99] I really don't know like in my child brain what I consider the motivation or how I explained it to myself.

[100] And my parents never really pull out to explain it at this point.

[101] It was just there's a crazy person, quote unquote.

[102] And so I had no idea.

[103] So this continues.

[104] There's more incidents where she would show up.

[105] I was at my grandparents house one day.

[106] day with my little cousin.

[107] She showed up with a gun.

[108] Oh my God.

[109] My uncle and my grandfather had to chase her off the property and eventually get her out.

[110] My grandmother had to take me and my cousin into the restroom, walk us in there.

[111] This is so traumatic.

[112] It's a lot.

[113] Yeah.

[114] We eventually moved.

[115] She found us there.

[116] When you guys would go to the police, what would the police say?

[117] So the explanation from police is that something physical has to happen.

[118] And the vandalization, stuff like that, you couldn't prove it.

[119] And so she was always gone by the time police would come.

[120] Yeah, in the 80s and 90s, the cops were like, well, we got to catch her murdering you.

[121] And then we'll know.

[122] That's now, too.

[123] Yes, well, that's one of the things with stopping.

[124] It's a rough one.

[125] So we move.

[126] We get a nice new house.

[127] It's two -story.

[128] My bedroom's in the front.

[129] It's on the second floor.

[130] And she would come just to kind of torment us.

[131] And especially me, she would come and park in the driveway.

[132] and shine her lights into my bedroom window.

[133] So, like, I would know she was there, just an intimidation.

[134] It was all just intimidation with, like, slight violence.

[135] It got to the point where I was in such an anxious state that I would army crawl along my floor to avoid the windows.

[136] And nobody knew I was going through this stuff.

[137] It was just what I did as a child to, like, cope.

[138] Nobody really understood anxiety at that time.

[139] Yeah.

[140] Yeah.

[141] Or the long -term effects of this on your brain?

[142] Yes.

[143] We'll also get to that.

[144] So there were more incidents that happened.

[145] She tried to run my mom and I off the road at one point.

[146] And that's actually what got a restraining order.

[147] And so we would take a picture to my school, show them, let them know she's never allowed.

[148] I wasn't allowed to play outside alone.

[149] I would always have to have an adult around.

[150] We had a cul -de -sac.

[151] She would come and park in the cul -de -sac and just stare while outside.

[152] Oh, my God.

[153] Until I just, like, ran inside.

[154] I have a terrible guess of why this is happening, but I'll patiently wait.

[155] Yeah, I do too, but let's see.

[156] relatively accurate.

[157] So eventually I start figuring out that dad is a little bit of a womanizer.

[158] There we go, yeah, yeah.

[159] He is an addict, which I already knew.

[160] Does he live with you guys, though?

[161] Up until I was about eight.

[162] But then things continued.

[163] So on my 11th birthday, which Tapicorn.

[164] Boom.

[165] Yeah, and also a day after Christmas.

[166] I know you guys mentioned that as like the worst part of the bad time.

[167] Oh, wow.

[168] Fed's a real fuck you.

[169] But I actually really like it.

[170] I don't know.

[171] I love the fanfare around the time.

[172] So, yes, we would do this thing every morning of my birthday after my parents' divorce.

[173] My dad would come over.

[174] We'd watch the news.

[175] They would send in my picture.

[176] And the news would, like, show your picture.

[177] And like, happy birthday.

[178] That's a pretty good clue of how small of a area you lived in, by the way.

[179] That's so cute.

[180] So he would come over.

[181] We would watch the news and see my picture and celebrate.

[182] And so he comes over.

[183] We get a phone call.

[184] my mom answers it and she says it's and it says a name and I'm like oh it's my cousin calling to wish me happy birthday so I go to the phone answer it she is on the other line she starts yelling all kinds of crazy things and it's just like one giant rant of basically me and your daddy had sex and you have a brother oh oh my god she just starts yelling this at me I scream 11th birthday.

[185] Wait, why did your mom give you the phone when she knew?

[186] She gave a fake name.

[187] Oh, my God.

[188] Ew.

[189] So at this time, there was caller ID, but she would do it to where it came up as out of area.

[190] Right.

[191] Or it would come up as a block number, like a number that wasn't public.

[192] Our whole family ended up making our numbers private, you know.

[193] And so she lied to get to me, said that I scream.

[194] Dad comes running in, yells at her cousins are out, you know.

[195] they convince me they sit me down and they say she's just trying to hurt you oh oh boy it's not true this is their big opportunity to come clean yeah and they blow this one yeah you're 11 it's like they oh god oh yeah so i am convinced this is nothing it's her trying to hurt me and i'm like okay great carry on in life a few months later sit me down again cps had been called on her for my brother He was found not in great shape.

[196] And so they removed him from the home and my dad was going to attempt to have custody.

[197] And so at that point, they did have to let me know, obviously, that I have a three -year -old brother, not just a new brother, a three -year -old brother.

[198] Yeah, you've had one for three years.

[199] So fast forward, I guess, a little bit.

[200] This carried on a little bit more.

[201] She was a lot more careful about it, especially with everything with my brother and custody.

[202] And it was rough because I was almost forced to be around her at times because she would have to come pick up my brother or if they had like supervised visitations, I would have to tag along in the cars while my dad went and did all this.

[203] So it was a lot of just situations that I did not know how to get out of and I couldn't really comprehend at that time.

[204] And just like my little childhood brain was not putting it at all.

[205] No, I don't think the adults in the situation can even manage this level of craziness and stress.

[206] Yeah.

[207] And so eventually things tapered off.

[208] I moved to Austin and was, you know, kind of freed in a way.

[209] At what age?

[210] Did you go early?

[211] 20.

[212] Okay.

[213] And so moving here really gave me kind of like a second lot on things and a freedom to like not be afraid of who's around me. Yeah.

[214] I'm a hyper vigilant person.

[215] How could you not be?

[216] Yeah.

[217] Exactly.

[218] And so, you know, I moved here as I was getting older, I started piecing together more and more things for my childhood.

[219] And in my 20s and early 30s, it really drove me into like a deep kind of depression and anxiety of trying to figure out like, like, who do you trust if you couldn't even trust your family growing up?

[220] Yes.

[221] Who do you trust if you're like your parents lied to you for so much, which I know it happens.

[222] But also that was my narrative is like, everybody goes through shit.

[223] And so I just kept saying like, well, everybody goes through shit.

[224] Everybody goes through shit.

[225] And then a couple of times in my 20s and like early 30s, I talked about what I had gone through and they're like, not everybody goes through that shit.

[226] Yes, yes.

[227] I know exactly what you're saying.

[228] Or you have like a boyfriend or a girlfriend and you're kind of hearing about their childhood.

[229] And you're like, oh, okay.

[230] Well, boy, they got lucky.

[231] Yeah.

[232] I'm like, oh, that's nice.

[233] Yeah, that sounds really nice.

[234] It's weird because it's such a juxtaposition where I had these beautiful experiences in childhood, especially my parents.

[235] From the outside, everything looked great.

[236] And then even talking to some of my family members, I'll tell them what happened.

[237] growing up and even they're kind of unaware of like the depth of everything yeah and so I went through a real ditch for a bit so I've been a private chef for a while and I was jam out while I'm cooking because it takes away my anxieties also yeah and I hadn't listened to the podcast yet your podcast came out back to boys and a fan and so that was the first podcast I ever listened to was when you guys came out found love with you monica and we have like a lot of dangle along the way I have literally listened to you guys almost every day for since you've been on.

[238] And so I started doing the work and one day I was sitting on a beach somewhere that I was private shuffing and a friend had joined me and we're talking and I was like, I think I'm ready to start dating again.

[239] She was like, are you?

[240] And I'm like, yeah, I think so.

[241] And so she's like, list out all of your crazy things like what your dream person is.

[242] I listed out a few minutes later.

[243] I get a message on Instagram from a person who was from my past and on my list was someone from my past that could come back in.

[244] knew me before I was like really, really down.

[245] Yeah.

[246] And I was like, I think I've done the work between stocking and lying and all this stuff that really created this anxiety and like bubble of unknown for me. Like I didn't know how to get out.

[247] I was like, actually, I've always really liked this person.

[248] This is the person that like really outlines everything that I would want.

[249] And so fast forward to a couple weeks later, he ends up asking me out on a date.

[250] We go on a first date and we read.

[251] convened and now we've been together for almost three years.

[252] Yay, I love it.

[253] This is such a happy ending.

[254] Nicky's a vulnerable boy.

[255] Oh, no. I love vulnerable.

[256] Yay.

[257] Yeah, and it's just been a real full circle to be here, I have to say.

[258] I have to include that part because really it's helped me. I've been in therapy for over two years now.

[259] Our relationship really brought out a lot of the things that, like, I had pushed down and needed to really work out.

[260] and the next level of stuff that I needed to work out.

[261] Yeah.

[262] I mean, I feel like I would have gotten there eventually, but truly, like, listening to you guys talk and be so open with everything, really gave me the confidence and just the support within myself to be able to redefine what I want in life and go for it.

[263] Oh, buddy.

[264] That's so nice.

[265] That's really very kind.

[266] So I have a really big dream life going on.

[267] I'm private chefing all over.

[268] I've private chef for a lot of your guests and friends.

[269] Oh, my God, amazing.

[270] I'm, like, heavily NDA bound.

[271] It's a dream.

[272] Next time we're in Austin, we have to do a chef.

[273] We need you to come cook for us.

[274] Yes.

[275] I didn't know how to say.

[276] It sounded bad, but I want to eat your food.

[277] Yes, I would love you to eat.

[278] And also, so my boyfriend, he's also a chef, one of the top restaurants.

[279] I think chefs over index and vulnerable boys staff.

[280] I'm vulnerable girl status.

[281] Yeah, yeah, I really do.

[282] All the chefs I've met, I can see in them pretty quickly.

[283] There's anxiety, healing happening within cooking, I think.

[284] I just had to add, this is so superficial.

[285] You look 19.

[286] Like, when you were saying you've been in Austin for 20 years, I'm like, okay, so you came when you're a baby.

[287] Yeah, it's impossible.

[288] I mean, you really look like you're in your early 20s at the most.

[289] Do you wear sunscreen?

[290] No way.

[291] Yes, she does.

[292] She doesn't need it.

[293] She wears it.

[294] Also, I have the filter on here, and I put makeup.

[295] Like, I'm not.

[296] Oh, man. Like, let's be real.

[297] I wish we could hug each other right now.

[298] Ah, here.

[299] So, she's, she, I'll hug you.

[300] All right, well, we'll have your email from Emma.

[301] And for real, if Monica and I are in Austin, we must, yes.

[302] You must cook for Monica.

[303] You have to cook.

[304] I'll cook you something.

[305] You cook Monica something.

[306] You'll do a cooking roulette.

[307] Make sure it's reciprocal.

[308] Thank you for chatting with us.

[309] Yeah, great meaning you.

[310] Thank you so much for everything that you do.

[311] It's bigger than big.

[312] Thank you.

[313] Bye.

[314] All right.

[315] Take care.

[316] Okay.

[317] This reminds me that one time when I was working at UCB, this woman came in and her stalker was, she had a restraining order against him.

[318] Uh -huh.

[319] But he was outside.

[320] Oh, a performer?

[321] No, he was just standing outside.

[322] She was stuck.

[323] She, like, came in.

[324] She was like, I don't know where to go.

[325] And I was like 25.

[326] Help deal with that.

[327] Holy smokes.

[328] I don't remember what I did.

[329] Hi.

[330] Hi.

[331] Hello there.

[332] What would you like to go by?

[333] You are a woodland nymph.

[334] That's immediately obvious.

[335] I feel like that under my desk.

[336] Could you pick a name from me?

[337] Okay.

[338] I'm going to go with Ariel.

[339] Oh, I like that.

[340] Let's go with Ariel.

[341] Okay, great.

[342] Are you like to tell us where you're at, or is that not a great idea?

[343] I think it's important to the story.

[344] So I live in New York City.

[345] I live in Brooklyn.

[346] The big city.

[347] You look like a Brooklynite.

[348] Yeah, I love me. Slash, did Peter Pan have a sidekick that?

[349] Oh, Wendy.

[350] Tinkerbell!

[351] Oh, Tinkerbell.

[352] Yes, there it is.

[353] I'm wearing green.

[354] Is it because I'm wearing green?

[355] No, it's you have a very sweet, magical -looking face.

[356] Oh, thank you.

[357] That's the best compliment ever.

[358] I've sincere about this.

[359] Okay, so you're in Brooklyn, and it is relevant to the story.

[360] Should I just jump into it?

[361] Yeah, just jump in.

[362] First of all, after submitting my story to the show, I went back and fact -checked a few things, and I've updated a few details.

[363] My memory of this time period feels hazy, and I think maybe that's a way that my brain is coping, but I'm fine now.

[364] Okay.

[365] Well, it's good to know that.

[366] But I have some notes here for that reason, like, to just keep me on track in case I get lost.

[367] So this takes place in 2019.

[368] I was 21 years old, and I was living in New York City.

[369] I was on Tinder when I met a guy, and I guess we need a fake name for him, too.

[370] Peter?

[371] What's so weird?

[372] I was about to say Peter King because Peter Pan.

[373] Peter Pan.

[374] So I meet Peter on Tinder and he's very handsome.

[375] Will you quickly tell me I've never been on those, but Tinder's what vibe?

[376] Was that one like, let's get together and make out or that's go on a date or somewhere in between?

[377] Yeah, it's definitely more let's make out.

[378] So we were both out of long -term relationships.

[379] So we were looking for something more casual, but also fun.

[380] Like we would definitely hang out a lot during the day and go on day trips to different parts of the city.

[381] And he was just really fun to be around.

[382] And so we were doing that for a few months.

[383] And then one day, I received a DM on Instagram from a girl that I didn't know.

[384] Okay.

[385] And she was asking me if I could meet her that day at a coffee shop in our neighborhood.

[386] And so, of course, I had to go find out what this was all about.

[387] Okay.

[388] Now, you acknowledge some people wouldn't know and you would have.

[389] I would have.

[390] Oh, I want to know the T .E. Yeah.

[391] What would you have done, Monica?

[392] God.

[393] Probably not, right?

[394] Probably not.

[395] But I probably would have been like, I don't want to meet you, but what is this regarding?

[396] I had a feeling.

[397] Yeah.

[398] Yeah, okay.

[399] My gut was like, I know what this is about.

[400] So I went and met her and a third girl and a fourth girl who was joining us on FaceTime because she couldn't make it there in person.

[401] Okay.

[402] Oh.

[403] He's got a real scandal going.

[404] It's impressive, actually.

[405] This is a class action lawsuit.

[406] It is impressive.

[407] It's like, how are you juggling all this?

[408] For real, though.

[409] And they basically lay out for me what had been going on, which is that he was seeing all of us simultaneously.

[410] And for other girls Who couldn't be there in person either So you were kind of the most recent Acquisition I don't know to this day I don't know how many more people there were The gist that I got was like he was Waking up in one girl's bed Going to hang out with another for the day And going to a third's sleep at her place He was just like a drifter And just always was one of us?

[411] Three months You were together three months And were you exclusive -ish?

[412] So it was a little more than three months It must have been like fourth five, I want to say, and we hadn't said that we were exclusive, but we were spending, like, it felt like we were getting there eventually.

[413] For some of these girls, they actually had decided to be exclusive.

[414] So he was definitely in the wrong lines were crossed.

[415] Yes.

[416] We also found out that he'd been lying about being a student and going to a school.

[417] That seemed really kind of dark to me, but I guess how would you have time to go to school if you're doing all this?

[418] Well, it sounds like school is just an excuse to buy himself time to be a way.

[419] from the other eight girls, like, oh, I have class on this day.

[420] What was the age gap?

[421] Was there an age gap?

[422] He was about four years older than me. But yeah, very good excuse, perfect excuse.

[423] So I called him, and I confronted him, and I was like, please never contact me again.

[424] That was weird behavior.

[425] Then later that day, when I got back to my apartment, he was sitting on the stoop.

[426] He really wanted to talk about it because he insisted it was all a big misunderstanding.

[427] So I gave him, like, five, ten minutes, nodding my head, not believing anything he's saying.

[428] I go back up into my apartment and I think I'm never going to see him again.

[429] But that was not the case.

[430] For the next few days, he would be on my stoop walking by my building or hanging around on the street that I lived on.

[431] Had you ever been to his house?

[432] I had, yeah.

[433] He has a place to live.

[434] Okay.

[435] He was also blowing up my phone, like just constantly calling me to the point where I couldn't use my phone because it was getting hot.

[436] And then I blocked him and he would just continue to do that through no caller ID.

[437] And then one night I watched him sit on the sidewalk, a conversation.

[438] across the street in the pouring rain and just cry.

[439] It's very dramatic.

[440] What's up, guys?

[441] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[442] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[443] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[444] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[445] And I don't mean just friends.

[446] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[447] The list goes on.

[448] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[449] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[450] We've all been there.

[451] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[452] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[453] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[454] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[455] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

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[459] did he say yes there's all these people but I actually am in love with you and so I'm willing to get rid of all this and you are the one of these 12 that was exactly the story he was trying to tell me yeah hard to know also possible it doesn't matter it doesn't matter yeah she doesn't matter not interested in being with someone who would ever do that of course doesn't even matter but is also interesting and relevant it is interesting yeah yeah because there's two versions of this.

[460] He's going to all eight of them and saying they're the ones and crying.

[461] Or Ariel is the one that he's like, oh, fuck, my behavior is caught up with me and I'm about to lose a girl that I actually am in love with.

[462] I'm a sex addict, but I'm in love with it.

[463] I don't know.

[464] It doesn't matter.

[465] You're not going to be with them, but it's also interesting.

[466] My theory now is that he saw me as like an easy target because I had a lot of empathy.

[467] I'm naive.

[468] I was younger than the other girls.

[469] Okay.

[470] Okay.

[471] And so him crying on the sidewalk definitely me, looking back now, I'm like, that was a great way to manipulate me, pulling at my heartstrings.

[472] Yeah.

[473] And I think I made the mistake in the beginning of trying to talk to him and reason with him.

[474] I begged him to just cut it out and go home.

[475] I tried asking kindly.

[476] I tried asking angrily.

[477] I tried reaching out to his mom, his dad, just asking them if they could talk to him and his friends.

[478] And nothing seemed to be working.

[479] So I tried a new tactic, which was I'm going to ignore him.

[480] Yeah.

[481] Which they say, and we probably should have said this, much of the way.

[482] earlier in this episode, but they say the number one technique for a stalker is to absolutely cut off all communication because, right, they can use anything as confirming that you are still interested.

[483] Even if you're like, fuck off, I hope you die.

[484] They'll go like, they still care.

[485] Look how passionate they are.

[486] Definitely a mistake I made at the beginning and I would never do again.

[487] So I stopped even asking him to leave me alone.

[488] Like, I just pretended he didn't exist.

[489] And I thought that maybe if I gave him zero attention, he'd have nothing to feed off of.

[490] And maybe he'd get bored and just give up and go home.

[491] But things just got worse.

[492] He started showing up at the subway station near my job.

[493] I used to work in retail and then near the subway station near my apartment.

[494] I would be in like a train car.

[495] I could feel him staring at me from the other train car and I would just pretend like he wasn't there.

[496] Like I would pretend like I didn't know he was following me. Oh, God.

[497] And then he'd pull the whole like calling my job and just breathing into the phone multiple times a day, which I'm assuming was him because I don't know anyone else.

[498] Yeah, it was definitely him.

[499] Safe to say that ignoring him was not going well.

[500] And then one night I got off the train after getting off of work and I was walking home in the dark and he just sort of appeared.

[501] Kept my head down.

[502] I was just trying to like walk faster, just get home as fast as I can.

[503] And like I said, the ignoring him was not working him.

[504] It turns out it just made him mad.

[505] And eventually I was just the lawn sprinting and he was chasing me. No. What was the duration from the breakup till the chasing at night?

[506] three weeks.

[507] That was the night I actually decided to file a police report and get a temporary order of protection.

[508] I thought that it would be enough to make him stop, but it seemed like there was no impact on his behavior whatsoever.

[509] Even the temporary restraining order?

[510] Yeah, that's when I got scared.

[511] I wasn't really scared until that point where I'm like, oh, you're so crazy, that's not even going to stop you.

[512] Like, you don't care.

[513] Oh my God.

[514] And then his actions just seem to get more bold.

[515] He would come into my apartment building and knock on my door and try to talk to through my apartment door.

[516] He threw rocks at my window at night, and he started to message and harass my family and friends, which is where I was, like, drawing the line.

[517] Like, you shouldn't message my younger sister.

[518] That's crazy.

[519] So I lost track of how many times he was arrested for breaking the order of protection just because I would call them whenever something like this would happen, especially when I saw him outside on my stoop and I needed to go to work or go somewhere.

[520] But whenever they'd get there, usually he'd already be gone and there was nothing they could do.

[521] Sometimes they would catch him around the corner trying to get away or whatever, but he was arrested so many times and I'm sure I racked up, I don't know how many felonies at that point because it had turned from temporary order protection to a more serious one.

[522] Every time he was arrested, he would just be released and be back during the same thing after 24 hours, like four days max.

[523] And I'd know when he was out because my phone would just start blowing up again.

[524] Oh, oof.

[525] I think maybe he was able to do this because his family is pretty wealthy and they had political connections.

[526] I'd like to have more faith in our system.

[527] But I think that definitely played a large partner.

[528] Well, that certainly answers a question I had about how is he supporting himself?

[529] He clearly can't have a job and have this sex addiction and the stalking.

[530] Yeah, mommy and daddy.

[531] And you told the parents.

[532] So they're in the know about this.

[533] They knew exactly what was going on.

[534] And I had tried to reason with them.

[535] Like I think at one point I was like, I'll do anything.

[536] I'll drop the charges if you can just make him stop.

[537] It's ruining my life right now.

[538] And I just need to like get up and go to my job and go to classes.

[539] Like I have a life that I need to be living.

[540] And I was trying to do that as normally as I could.

[541] But it was so disruptive and time consuming.

[542] Did you stay in touch with any of the gals you had had this coffee with to find out if they too were being stalked by him?

[543] I was.

[544] They were not experiencing any of this.

[545] I don't think he would have had time for two, but he surprised me before.

[546] The detective assigned to my case would give me rides to work some mornings, and then there would be like a patrol car parked outside my apartment for hours.

[547] It seems like they were like working in shifts, but it didn't stop.

[548] After another one of those incidents, I was in my kitchen with a police officer and he was like, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but like this isn't the first time that he's done this.

[549] He has a history of this sort of behavior.

[550] So that was also really scary.

[551] I'm like, okay, not only does he not care about it now, he's never cared about it.

[552] And then around this, point is when he started to post these concerning social media posts, like photos on his story where he's definitely on top of like the Williamsburg Bridge and looking down on the water.

[553] Uh -huh.

[554] And then he posted a photo from the roof of a building, like looking down at the sidewalk.

[555] And it took me a second to realize that was my building.

[556] He was on top of my roof.

[557] No. Oh, fuck.

[558] I call the police.

[559] I explained to them, he's on my roof.

[560] Can you please, like, help me. And when they arrived, they couldn't find him on top of the roof.

[561] And they got annoyed with me. They were like, you're taking time away from other things that are happening.

[562] Kind of made it seem like I was being dramatic and looking for attention.

[563] But then that same night, he was arrested for breaking and entering into a building, two buildings down from mine, which I didn't know about until like a few days later.

[564] And then one night, I was home alone because it was winter break.

[565] And both of my roommates were back with their families.

[566] And I was in bed.

[567] The lights were off.

[568] I was trying to go to sleep.

[569] And I start hearing tapping at my window.

[570] And I had a fire escape.

[571] right outside my window.

[572] Oh, no. So I knew probably what was happening.

[573] And my plan was like, I'm going to lay here and ignore it and lay dead.

[574] The lights are not being turned on.

[575] He needs to think that I'm not here.

[576] But then I could hear him getting into the window somehow.

[577] Like, I don't know how he managed to open it.

[578] It seemed like it was like a knife or something, but it was an old building.

[579] So it probably wasn't that hard.

[580] And then I ran to the kitchen to get a knife with no intention to actually use it.

[581] I was just like, I'm going to have this in my hand so that he knows I'm serious.

[582] As he comes through the window, I'm like, I've called 911, they're on their way.

[583] You need to exit through the front door of my apartment.

[584] And I'm, like, escorting him out with the knife in my hand, which I was surprised by how easy it was to do that when you had a knife in your hand.

[585] He complied.

[586] How bold you could be.

[587] Right.

[588] And very creepy, like, still trying to talk to me, telling me that he loved me and, like, all this weird stuff.

[589] And then when he left, I think I was so tired at that point.

[590] I didn't even call the police because what are they going to do when they get here?

[591] He's not here.

[592] Like, they're going to make it seem like I was looking for attention again.

[593] Around mid -December now, so all this have been going on for quite some time.

[594] Mid -December of what year?

[595] 2019.

[596] 2019.

[597] Okay.

[598] I woke up one morning and I saw that I had no missed caller ID calls.

[599] And I was like, whoa, what's happening?

[600] I opened my Instagram to find a post from one of his best friends.

[601] And it was like a tribute post.

[602] It was like, rest in peace, Peter.

[603] My God.

[604] Yeah.

[605] I had a feeling that's how this is going to end.

[606] dropped and I went and I looked at his most recent Instagram posts and it had 30 plus comments from friends and even his younger brother and they're writing things like you will be missed and his younger brother had commented rest in heaven big bro crying emoji I love you oh my gosh so I'm completely distraught like I have never lost someone similar in age and that I knew and I had to go stay with my parents for a week and just try to process everything and I didn't leave my bed and I was at the same time feeling a lot of denial like this can't be real but I know that's also part of grieving so I was refreshing my Google search for like obituaries for Peter and eventually I actually reached out to his mom and I offered my sincere condolences and she thanked me and then I called his dad who's divorced from his mom and expressed my condolences and he had no idea what I was.

[607] I was talking about.

[608] What?

[609] Oh, my God.

[610] So I start to realize, like, oh, this is fucked up.

[611] I text his mom, and all I say is that I spoke with Peter's dad, period.

[612] And she sends me a text, which is definitely not intended for me. It's intended for Peter.

[613] No!

[614] And I have a screenshot of it.

[615] It says, obviously, he must have said that he is unaware something happened to you.

[616] She just trumped us, which was pretty sneaky.

[617] If your father doesn't know, it means it's not true.

[618] you see it's backfiring as I told you what in the flying fuck he faked his death well and the brother's in on it and the mom's in it what kind of fucking twisted family is this i never texted factor or anything like i just left it at that i was like wow that's a whole new level of crazy and after like a week and a half of me falling my eyes out yes and probably feeling weird guilt even though you should never But, oh, blaming myself, being like, oh, my God, if not for me, this person would probably still be alive for a week and a half.

[619] That's a long time.

[620] You're a better person than me. If I would have woke up to no thing and I saw he killed himself, I'd be like, thank fucking God.

[621] I would feel relieved and then I would feel a lot of guilt about feeling relieved.

[622] I would have felt happy and I would have strutted on the street and whistled.

[623] And I'm like, yeah, it was him or me and it was him with victory.

[624] This is insane.

[625] Me now would do that.

[626] I trusted people.

[627] I think that's what feels so weird about that.

[628] So as soon as that happens, the no caller ID starts right back up.

[629] I have to go back to Brooklyn because I need to go to work because I need to pay my rent.

[630] And I'm so tired that when the detective is like, there's not much else we can do for you.

[631] Like, we know how this plays out.

[632] We've seen it before.

[633] It doesn't go well for you.

[634] Do they advise you to get a gun at any point?

[635] No, they didn't.

[636] Why don't they arrest him?

[637] Permanently.

[638] I can't with the justice system.

[639] And even if they did, what?

[640] what would that do for him?

[641] He needs help.

[642] Yeah, but he can't be out on the street doing this to people, harming people.

[643] Yeah.

[644] And their recommendation was you need to relocate and I'm like, great.

[645] So how do I pay for that?

[646] Because I need to break a lease.

[647] I need to move things.

[648] Are you going to pay for that?

[649] And they're like, no, but you can reach out to these domestic violence shelters and I did.

[650] And obviously there's people on those lists that need help way faster.

[651] So I didn't have time like that.

[652] So I ended up selling a lot of my stuff, like my whole closet and using my savings and breaking my lease and getting out of there.

[653] He did still continue to bother me even after I moved back to my parents for like maybe a few months, but over time it just slowed down.

[654] And then July 7, 2021 is when he pleaded guilty to all the charges.

[655] And the court sentenced him to participate in like a mental health program.

[656] However, because of COVID, I don't actually know if he ever had to do it.

[657] Whoa, so you're still kind of living with this?

[658] He's out there.

[659] Oh, my God.

[660] I don't feel scared of him anymore or the situation.

[661] Do you spy on him at all, like with a phantom account?

[662] I don't even want to go there.

[663] There was a few other incidents that are notable that happened since I moved back to my parents.

[664] On January 23rd, 2021, I got a call from my DA, and it was like, have you heard from him?

[665] Because he is a missing person right now.

[666] And I think what happened was that he was pulling the fake death thing.

[667] again on someone else because they found him a few days later.

[668] Fuck.

[669] This is wild and terrifying.

[670] It's crazy.

[671] Yeah.

[672] When I'm talking about it, I don't really feel like it's real.

[673] You're probably disassociated of a bit, which you have to for survival.

[674] I hate to prescribe the source of the problem is a man, but I also think if we could get some renegade buck in there like me who's just dying to defend somebody.

[675] Can you get like a watchdog?

[676] Could you fall in love with a hillbilly?

[677] Who could I call?

[678] I need a service for that, honestly.

[679] yeah i volunteer like i want to be there and i want to see him on the thing and i want to go out there and just beat the fuck out of him when he comes back i'll beat the fuck out of him again and after 12 or so ass beatings i feel like that might be the only solution left because the cops aren't helping so maybe it's time for some bounty law i actually saw him in person once so i moved back to new york city i wanted to finish my degree and i got all that done but it was the summer of 2022 and i was sitting in bryant park having a snack on a bench and i out of nowhere like i wasn't even thinking about him.

[680] I just had this like intense feeling that he was about to walk in on my right hand side.

[681] In my head, I counted down.

[682] I was like four, three, two, one.

[683] And he walks into the park.

[684] He sits down on a bench near me. In my head, I'm like, I expected this.

[685] I'm not surprised, but I'm also like scared.

[686] And I'm just glaring at him though, like with rage.

[687] And he looks at me, realizes who it is and like gets up and walks away so fast.

[688] And he looked really scared interesting i'm inclined to try to make sense of all it and you just can't make sense of what's going on in someone like that's head yeah there's no predicting wow what a story oh man thanks for sharing i'm so sorry all that fucking happened i know it's so corny but i'm much better because of it like i needed to learn a lot of things that i got out of that well that's a very glass half full takeaway i have to be that way you did not deserve it at all to have to be taught that lesson by the universe fuck I'm so sorry.

[689] It's okay, really it is.

[690] I mean, it's not that he's doing that probably to still other people, and I feel a weird responsibility that he's still out there doing it.

[691] Nobody's done everything that can be done.

[692] You've done literally everything and more.

[693] This is part of the whole problem.

[694] And then you are left feeling shitty.

[695] Oh, yeah, I have that guilt.

[696] Like, if I would have been honest about the dude who molested me, I probably would have prevented other people who have been molested, but it's like, I can't carry that, man. It's too young.

[697] I need to save myself.

[698] Yeah.

[699] It's only going to be so destructive in my head.

[700] Well, thank you so much for sharing that story.

[701] That was terrible.

[702] Yeah.

[703] It's a terrible story, but I like it.

[704] Oh, yeah.

[705] Thank you for listening.

[706] I honestly don't tell the story a lot, usually because I feel like it's kind of unbelievable or it makes me sound crazy or I just don't want it to, like, affect my career or anything.

[707] So this is like the perfect kind of place to tell it.

[708] Thank you.

[709] Yes, thank you so much.

[710] Well, I will say this.

[711] You still very much have your Tinkerbell energy, and I'm very glad that that wasn't ruined.

[712] Yeah, still there.

[713] It's very much shining bright.

[714] That means a lot.

[715] All right.

[716] Well, nice meeting you.

[717] Thank you for telling us that.

[718] Okay, take care.

[719] The world is scary.

[720] Those were juis, man. Well, listen, this is what fucking sucks.

[721] The stark reality of that is that was four women we talked to.

[722] Well, exactly.

[723] You're so fucking scary to be a woman on this planet.

[724] I'm so sorry it is.

[725] Oh, I shouldn't have interrupted that because you're right and thank you.

[726] And also, there were a few men who sent in, but then they didn't respond when Emma reached back out.

[727] Yeah, it's not to say it doesn't happen.

[728] Women stock men, for sure.

[729] Yeah, yeah.

[730] But the threat level is much different.

[731] Yeah, they're probably not chasing you down the street.

[732] And in fairness, one of the stalkers was a woman.

[733] But she wasn't the scary one.

[734] The affair woman.

[735] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

[736] Everyone can go crazy.

[737] I just think the threat level is a lot.

[738] Yeah.

[739] I can think she played dead.

[740] Oh, fuck.

[741] Oh, my God.

[742] You don't have no sympathy for that dude, but at least is illuminating.

[743] Like, well, sure, he's the product of a family that would all be in on this thing.

[744] The mom's definitely bonkers.

[745] No wonder the dad split.

[746] Yeah, Jesus.

[747] All right.

[748] Will you tell me the second something like this happens to you, Monica, and I won't.

[749] We're not going to be a second visit.

[750] Somebody knock on wood, please.

[751] Okay.

[752] But I'm just telling you, don't go to the cops.

[753] Come to me, martial law.

[754] The cops are, okay.

[755] Wow.

[756] I'm sorry.

[757] Their hands are bound.

[758] Like, if you don't commit a crime.

[759] How is it not committing a crime?

[760] It's harassment.

[761] It is.

[762] I mean, he did go to jail.

[763] They just kept letting him out.

[764] Like, at what point, I guess you have to be dead in order to send someone to jail?

[765] That's, oh, my God.

[766] Anyway, okay.

[767] Yeah, it's very stressful.

[768] All right, I'm stressed.

[769] Okay, bye.

[770] Say something positive, though.

[771] Let's end on something positive.

[772] Everything's bad.

[773] All right.

[774] I love you.

[775] Wow, that was a doozy.

[776] Do you want to sing a tune or something?

[777] We don't have a thing song for this new show.

[778] So here I go, go.

[779] We're going to ask some random questions.

[780] And with the help of our jerry.

[781] We'll get some suggestion On the flyer rhyme dish Enjoy Follow armchair expert on the Wondry app Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app Or on Apple Podcasts.

[782] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey