424 - Audacity On Tap

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] That's Georgia Hartstark.

[3] Thanks.

[4] That's Karen Kilcariff.

[5] You're welcome.

[6] I feel like I was doing a irritating harmony on purpose on that intro there.

[7] Oh, that's how tone deaf I am.

[8] I didn't even notice.

[9] You thought it sounded beautiful?

[10] Yeah.

[11] Perfect.

[12] Like a, like a, what, fairy tale, no, limerick.

[13] No, you know.

[14] I'd be kind of dirty.

[15] Yeah.

[16] There's a limerick.

[17] What's your favorite limerick?

[18] I should have asked you on St. Patrick's Day, but I forgot.

[19] I'm not Irish.

[20] I don't have one.

[21] You know that.

[22] You have to pick one.

[23] I don't want to.

[24] I love them all.

[25] How do you choose?

[26] Truly, they're all like, children to me. What's going on?

[27] What do you have to report?

[28] Not a whole lot.

[29] Still making friends with the crows.

[30] Good good.

[31] murder of crows that everyone fucking pointed out after we recorded last week.

[32] And it's like, yeah, we didn't make that connection at all.

[33] Right.

[34] We're going to drop a lot of balls.

[35] Hey, if this is your first episode, prepared to be disappointed.

[36] We're not going to catch on for weeks, probably.

[37] Also, I feel like people, especially in the social media age, don't understand that pun -based wordplay is the most difficult to hear when you're in the middle of your own thought.

[38] It's for the listener.

[39] Right?

[40] you're not there trying to churn something up so you can sit there and be like, but you're mad that we didn't think of it.

[41] It's like, I'm in here with all this other magic.

[42] Well, you went straight to mad, and I don't think that they were mad at us.

[43] I think they're furious.

[44] I feel like I used to do puns a lot more and a lot better.

[45] And now I just like maybe doing this off the cuff now because it's spin.

[46] That's partly on me. I think I shamed you.

[47] Yeah, that's true.

[48] Shame works really well on me. It's surprising.

[49] Not surprising.

[50] Me too.

[51] Look, I think that's, shame it.

[52] That's why it's one of the big five.

[53] It's really effective.

[54] Whoever's doing it to whoever.

[55] But also in stand -up comedy, when I started doing a pun was like farting on stage for joke, for laughs.

[56] And nowadays, it's very common and celebrated.

[57] So this is just how times change.

[58] Yeah.

[59] Get with the program, us.

[60] I don't want to.

[61] or don't it's totally a prerogative i think i'm turning the program off and i'm just going to go sit in a quiet corner as a middle -aged lady your brain the program of your brain yep you got to turn that thing off every once in a while it's so loud god shut up lady and i mean what are they even talking about in there it's mostly static it's all like shit from fourth grade it's not relevant anymore stop it let it go your 20s we're So long ago now.

[62] No one remembers.

[63] No one cares.

[64] So stop it.

[65] Thank God.

[66] Thank God.

[67] Count your blessings and stop it.

[68] Wait.

[69] Are you getting religious?

[70] Yeah.

[71] I didn't mean God.

[72] I meant like, you know, the idea of thinking someone.

[73] Oh, count your blessing style.

[74] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[75] Gratitude vibes.

[76] Gratitude.

[77] I'm talking hashtag blessings, not fucking like holy.

[78] Oh, the most mean.

[79] meaningless blessing.

[80] Right.

[81] Just empty blessing.

[82] No, no, no. This is all hashtag based.

[83] My religion is hashtag based.

[84] I mean, I think all of life is truly just a shell, a shell of what it used to be.

[85] Hashtag keep J .K. Living.

[86] Yeah, totally.

[87] Hashtag do your best.

[88] Hashtag or not or take a fucking nap.

[89] It's fine.

[90] Hashtag, what does it matter anyway?

[91] Yeah.

[92] That whole thing of like everyone wants to give 110%.

[93] I want to give 80 % and then use the 20%.

[94] And then use the 20%.

[95] extra 20 % or 30, whatever it is, to fucking enjoy my life.

[96] That's right.

[97] That's fine.

[98] I think my ratio would be I want to give 50%, and then I want to day drink the other 50%.

[99] Until 8 p .m. What are the numbers we're relating again?

[100] I can't remember.

[101] I'm not going to math, but that sounds like an equation I can get behind.

[102] I was with my friend, Zach Novi Towers, friend of the show and listener of the show.

[103] And he and I were at lunch at this place.

[104] And it was just, it was a Sunday afternoon.

[105] It was like a Mexican restaurant in Civil Lake.

[106] It was perfect vibes where we were just like, one of us was eating a breakfast burrito.

[107] One of us was eating lunch, whatever.

[108] Yeah.

[109] And it was just like, oh.

[110] But then there were these people at the bar, just chatting, sitting at the bar, super casual, natural light coming through the kind of high window.

[111] They walk there, I'm sure, right?

[112] Yes.

[113] They know each other, I think.

[114] Yeah.

[115] And they're just chit chatting and laugh.

[116] And then they all decide to do a shot together.

[117] And I'm eavesdropping, but I'm like, hey addict, like, stop listening to that.

[118] Oh, you, yeah.

[119] NY, yes, me, NYU, not to anybody else.

[120] NYUB, uh -huh.

[121] NYUB to me. Hashtag, and NYOB.

[122] Yeah, what did it, how did you feel?

[123] How did that make you feel?

[124] Well, I just felt like I knew intellectually in my mind that the thing I thought, like, the longing my heart that was pouring out of me, that I knew that it was an idea that was attached to old things and not like my current reality.

[125] So it was like, yes, you think that would be a good idea.

[126] It would absolutely end up being probably a bad idea, whatever.

[127] But just like, thinking about it, the waiter comes over and puts down two bright pink shots in front of both of us and goes, these are for you guys.

[128] Like, we love you guys.

[129] And we look at each other and start laughing where I was like it was like he was the best waiter in the world because he was picking up on my psychic alcoholism and was like guess what we have for you free shots yeah and now we're going to make it even harder we know how hard this is even to be in this restaurant however now you have to like purposely say no you don't have to just not order it now you have to say no yes now you can't do the thing we're like well i have to be polite like the rationalizations that of course i would absolutely do yeah and but anyway Yeah.

[130] Luckily, my friend's doc is like, no thanks.

[131] It's so hard, but the thing I think about is that Sunday at brunch, you got to leave and then go like do things with your life, you know?

[132] Even though they're just sitting on the couch and watching TV, it's still like being present and aware, which doesn't happen when you drink.

[133] I mean.

[134] Right, because you, I personally, and I'm only speaking for myself here, although this is going to sound familiar to you, I get up at that bar, I'd finish what we were eating, do them shots say we probably need one more.

[135] I know where you're going to end up, right?

[136] The drawing room, right?

[137] You end up, this is what happens.

[138] You're at this beautiful brunch place and you end up down the street at the fucking dankest dive bar.

[139] Singing the closest fucking karaoke where people are like, ma 'am, I'll tell you what's going on.

[140] Stop singing that song so loud at me. Oh my God.

[141] Ugly.

[142] Ugly.

[143] I mean, thankfully I just don't do shots.

[144] anymore.

[145] I mean, that's just, I can't.

[146] How could anybody over, I don't know, what's the cutoff age, 28?

[147] How old am I?

[148] 43?

[149] I'd say 43.

[150] Do 43.

[151] Here's what's beautiful about the concept of shots.

[152] It is a communal unifying activity.

[153] Yeah.

[154] It's like everyone putting on party hats.

[155] Yeah.

[156] Right?

[157] But then it's like that hat really affects your brain.

[158] Yeah, the hat's a little too tight.

[159] That little, uh, the rubber band around your chin is kind of cutting off your fucking air supply.

[160] I'm in a lightheaded.

[161] Like, ooh, this hat's awesome.

[162] Day nap.

[163] Hey, are you day drinking while you're listening to this episode?

[164] Because we want to know, here's what we're going to do.

[165] Last week, we just randomly like, what do you guys do while you're listening to this episode?

[166] And you guys actually answered that question.

[167] So genius.

[168] Which is so cool.

[169] So we're going to start a new thing.

[170] Trend.

[171] That's not a trend.

[172] Where we hashtag read those at the end of the episode.

[173] So comment on our TikTok, on our Instagram, wherever, and let us know what you're doing while you're listening to this episode and we'll start reading them.

[174] I think the magic of this show is that if George and I just have a thought passed through our head, you guys show up and go like, I will answer you.

[175] I'm all about this.

[176] And it really is very fun.

[177] It's the very fun part of that kind of engagement.

[178] So do you want to read your people telling us what we're doing that Alejandra split up some of the answers so that we could read them to each other?

[179] Let's call it hashtag.

[180] What are you even doing right now in that voice.

[181] Perfect.

[182] Yep.

[183] What are you doing?

[184] It's confrontational and it's sophomore year.

[185] Hashtag.

[186] This one's, I supervise a cemetery in Wyoming.

[187] I have a lot of cleanup, leaves, sticks, trash, plastic flowers, et cetera, to prep for Memorial Day.

[188] This time of beer, I spend seven hours with a big -ass backpack blower on my back, blowing debris from one end to the other of the 60 -acre property.

[189] Wow.

[190] Thank Jesus for your, with the G. Thank Jesus for your.

[191] Thank Jesus for your podcast and many other true crime podcasts to get me through this.

[192] Hey, you asked, love you all, Lonnie, she, her.

[193] Lonnie, we did ask him.

[194] We loved hearing it.

[195] That's, what a visual.

[196] Yeah.

[197] You're leaf blowing a cemetery.

[198] That's beautiful.

[199] That sounds like a Wes Anderson movie immediately.

[200] It also sounds like the perfect intro to any true crime series.

[201] Yeah.

[202] Like, hey, guess what's going to happen to this lady pretty soon?

[203] Oh, my God.

[204] She's going to discover something.

[205] Yeah.

[206] that's going to unnerve the rest of the town.

[207] Yeah.

[208] But not Lonnie.

[209] Lonnie's all over it.

[210] But it'll change her life.

[211] And then just a leaf blower goes off.

[212] Okay, here's this one.

[213] It says, what am I doing?

[214] Hey, ladies, you asked us to tell you what we're doing while we listen to the latest podcast.

[215] So here it is.

[216] I was driving to practice to sing in the backup choir for the world -renowned Italian singer Andrea Bocelli.

[217] What?

[218] Who will be in concert this Saturday night in Indianapolis.

[219] And then it just says, there it is, Dan, he, him.

[220] Wow.

[221] Okay, I love this new thing.

[222] What are you even doing right now?

[223] I love it.

[224] What are you even doing right now?

[225] The range, the detail of people's actual lives.

[226] It's so beautiful.

[227] Oh, my God.

[228] I love it.

[229] I love it.

[230] I love it too.

[231] It's so good.

[232] Yeah, it's perfect.

[233] Oh, hey, we also have a true crime.

[234] Nope.

[235] We also have a podcast network.

[236] Yeah, that's true.

[237] Do you want to hear some highlights?

[238] Good.

[239] Here they are.

[240] Here they are.

[241] Hey, there's a podcast in our network called Do You Need a Ride?

[242] It's hosted by, yeah, it's hosted by this guy, Chris Fairbanks and this chick, Karen Kilgariff, no big deal.

[243] This week, their guest is the incredible TIG Nataro.

[244] TIG's new comedy special, Hello Again, is super funny and available now on Prime.

[245] Just what a treasure TIG is.

[246] Tick Natarro has been putting out, like, insanely killer comedy specials year after year.

[247] I mean, for such a long time.

[248] This one's no. different.

[249] We all love TIG.

[250] She's a genius.

[251] We do.

[252] Also, over on this podcast, we'll kill you.

[253] Aaron and Aaron are back with their seventh season of the podcast.

[254] I mean, just a day one podcast for the exactly right network.

[255] Yes, love them.

[256] We love them.

[257] This week's episode covers chronic fatigue syndrome.

[258] So listen in, find out if you're suffering what you can do, what the details are.

[259] Do you need a nap?

[260] What's going on?

[261] Fuck, I love that podcast.

[262] Okay.

[263] So good.

[264] And on that, messed up, Kara and Lisa discuss penetration, an SVU episode from 2010.

[265] Their guest this week is J .C. McKenzie, who has played four different characters in the Law and Order universe.

[266] So make sure to check that out.

[267] It's so funny.

[268] Sorry, do you mind if I really quick look up J .C. McKenzie just so, because I know I will know who it is.

[269] Yeah.

[270] Oh, yeah.

[271] You've seen this man. Very familiar.

[272] Oh, the departed and Wolf of Wall Street and the Irishman.

[273] Hello, Martin Scorsese.

[274] he loves you.

[275] That's a journeyman actor, a working actor.

[276] Yep, that's so cool.

[277] Congratulations, sir.

[278] Oh, and lastly, on episode three of 10Foldmore Wicked's 11th season, our main character is found burned to death in her bedroom.

[279] But then she visits her brother in his dreams.

[280] Binge this season right now, if you are not cut up, you don't know what I'm talking about.

[281] Season 11 of 10Foldmore Wicked, you have to hear it.

[282] Epic.

[283] And over in the MFF store, you'll find an SSTGM and a murdery -note beach towel, perfect for the beach.

[284] You can also use it at the pool.

[285] It's up to your discretion.

[286] They're 20 % off and you'll want to get them now before they're gone.

[287] That's my favorite murder .com.

[288] Yay.

[289] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[290] Absolutely.

[291] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[292] Exactly.

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[302] sales and if you're a business owner you can too connect with customers in line and online do retail right with shopify sign up for a one dollar per month trial period at shopify dot com slash murder important note that promo code is all lowercase go to shopify dot com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today that's shopify dot com slash murder goodbye okay okay look look and listen to this cold case, but it's a classic 1930s, very strange tale that I think you and I can get to the bottom of.

[303] Oh.

[304] And I don't know why I've never heard of this.

[305] It's one of those, like, you'd see it late at night on like a, you know, rankers, top 10 weird murders that have never been solved cases, you know?

[306] So it's a skull case from the 1930s and the murders happened at Lovers Lane's in Queens, New York.

[307] And the police receive a series of letters written by the killer, alleging he and his victims are a part of a mysterious international organization.

[308] And like, it's a big, maybe spy thing.

[309] Okay.

[310] And the letters say that there will be more victims if the people who are targets don't give up their secrets.

[311] So this is the story of the three X killer.

[312] That's the like moniker, three X. Okay.

[313] So the main sources I used in today's story include an article from Daily News by Mara Boveson and a passage from the book, The Encyclopedia of Unsolved Crimes by Michael Newton.

[314] And all of the sources are used listed in the show notes.

[315] Okay.

[316] Get ready to put your detective hat on.

[317] Okay.

[318] So it's 1930.

[319] Here we are.

[320] 39 -year -old deli owner, Joseph Mosinski, is living in the Queensboro of New York City with his wife and two kids.

[321] Unfortunately, he's also having an affair and has a mistress.

[322] She's 19 years old.

[323] Immediate red flag.

[324] We don't like that.

[325] On the evening of June 11, the 1930, Joseph asks his wife to close their deli up while he, quote, runs an errand.

[326] But really, he's going to meet up with this mistress.

[327] Her name is Catherine May. So Catherine and Joseph have been having an affair for the last two years.

[328] So when he picks her up on that evening, he drives her out to the local lover's lane spot in the white stone neighborhood of queens it's just kind of another standard night for the two of them they slip into the back seat like they always do but suddenly out of nowhere a short thin man in a black fedora appears from the darkness wielding a handgun it is like every horror movie you've ever seen the man orders joseph to get out of the back seat get into the driver's seat 19 -year -old katherine is sitting there watching as her lover of two years is then shot in the head twice and dies.

[329] Oh, God.

[330] She's just sitting there in the backseat.

[331] Just murdered in front of her.

[332] Right in front of her.

[333] She's, like, trapped back there.

[334] Once Joseph is dead, the stranger rifles through Joseph's pockets until he finds some papers.

[335] And Catherine has no idea what the papers are.

[336] She never gets the chance to find out as the killer pulls out a match and then lights those papers from his pocket on fire from Joseph's pocket.

[337] There's a lot of reports that then she was sexually assaulted as well, but some people don't bring it up, but I think that happened.

[338] Then the killer forces Catherine out of the car and marches her about a mile southeast to the Bayside neighborhood.

[339] And from there, he gets on a bus to Flushing with her.

[340] And then in Flushing, he puts Catherine on a trolley alone and then takes off.

[341] But before he leaves her, he hands her a piece of paper with two circles stamped on it in red ink.

[342] And in one of the stamp circles is Joseph, the victim's name, and then the other is three X. Then he lets her go on the trolley and he disappears into the night.

[343] Like, what a terrifying ordeal for her.

[344] Yeah, and confusing.

[345] Right.

[346] Like, what is all this?

[347] Yes.

[348] And I think she's been sexually assaulted, so she's traumatized.

[349] Yeah.

[350] So, like, she doesn't know what's going on.

[351] She's too scared to go to the cops.

[352] She decides not to report what happened.

[353] But the next morning, June 12, 1930, a passerby happens upon Joseph's body lying in a ditch near his abandoned truck.

[354] He calls the police.

[355] They search the truck, and they find a woman's coat covered in blood, and they're able to trace it to Catherine and bring her in for questioning.

[356] Yeah.

[357] And it's just odd.

[358] She makes up a story about an Italian gangster and that maybe Joseph had been involved in the mob, but then she tells them what really happened, saying she had been too scared to tell the truth.

[359] But the police, because she's changing her story, you know, and because it's the 1930s, don't believe what she's saying.

[360] So they hold her.

[361] But they eventually rule her out as a suspect and they let her go.

[362] But without much evidence and having no real regard for Catherine's story, like they don't believe her anyway.

[363] The police, you know, get involved in other cases.

[364] They don't care.

[365] Right.

[366] So this all changes just five days later on June 17, 1930, when another body, that of 26 -year -old Brooklyn -Bred radio mechanic, Noel Sowley is found dead in his car.

[367] The car is parked at another Queens area, Lover's Lane, parked in a turnout.

[368] He had spent the previous night hooking up with his 18 -year -old lover, Betty Ring.

[369] Police bring Betty in for questioning, and she recounts a story that's very similar to Catherine's story.

[370] According to Betty, Noel picked her up on that evening of June 16th and drove them out to this secluded lover's lane spot.

[371] They're kind of hooking up.

[372] in the back seat, and then a short, thin man in a, quote, dirty black fedora shows up and points his gun at Noel demanding to see his ID.

[373] The man checks it and then uses a flashlight to flash some sort of, like, signal into the darkness, like he's signaling someone else.

[374] He turns back to Noel and said, you're the one we want all right.

[375] You're going to get what Joe got.

[376] And then with that, the man forces Noel into his driver's seat and shoots him twice in the head again just fucking kills him after killing noel the man let out what betty said is a hideous laugh and then through a copy of the newspaper clipping about joseph's death on top of noel's body he sifts through noel's pockets he finds some mysterious pages which betty describes as looking like an electric company bill so like nothing she could recognize is important and the killer then cries out i have it like he's yelling to whoever he flashed his flashed light out.

[377] So then he directs his attention to Betty.

[378] We're all assuming to sexually assault her.

[379] She says at that moment she could tell that his face was pale, wrinkled skin, piercing creepy eyes.

[380] Quote, they were eyes that never blinked like the eyes of a fish swimming through water.

[381] Mm -mm.

[382] Mm -mm.

[383] Yeah.

[384] And to her horror, the man leans in to try to kiss Betty, but she holds up her cross on her necklace.

[385] What's a St. Joseph medallion?

[386] Because that's what she had.

[387] Oh, yeah, that's just a little, it's basically, it kind of looks like a little pendant.

[388] It's like a little silver pendant and it has a picture of St. Joseph on it.

[389] And I think he's the one, whatever, there's all kinds of saints and they all help you with different things.

[390] Well, he fucking helped her because this guy was like, he stopped.

[391] He could tell that she was Catholic and because of that he backs off.

[392] Wow.

[393] Which is wild.

[394] Yeah.

[395] So either he was a demon.

[396] Yeah.

[397] A true demon.

[398] Right.

[399] Or he was also Catholic.

[400] Right.

[401] But just as he did with Catherine, the killer leads Betty, like takes her out of the car and walks her away after she just watched her fucking lover get shot to death.

[402] How, like, he didn't just run away from the scene.

[403] He, like, brought her into the city.

[404] He puts her on a bus.

[405] But before he departs, he leaves her with a piece of paper, rubber stamped with two circles in red ink.

[406] The first circle has Noelle's name and the second three X. This clue to me is really important because, Because when I heard this whole story, I was like, oh, he just was a weirdo who happened upon these people on the lover's lane, but he had this piece of paper that already had the victim's name on it.

[407] So it wasn't random, right?

[408] No. Right.

[409] Unless he wrote it after he killed them.

[410] I don't know.

[411] But it sounds like the way the women are reporting it, this is all part of the plan, right?

[412] He's looking for a certain person, finding him, throwing down, like, this is his business car.

[413] But with the person's name on it, which sounds like it's premeditated, unless, because on both of those victims, he went through their pockets, saw their ID.

[414] So he could have written their name down after the fact and then handed it to her.

[415] But don't you think that the women would mention that?

[416] Yeah.

[417] Yeah.

[418] Definitely.

[419] Right?

[420] Yeah.

[421] That'd be a different vibe.

[422] I don't know.

[423] It would have been mentioned, it feels like.

[424] Yeah.

[425] Yeah.

[426] Because one feels like a kind of a murderer going crazy and one feels like someone with a plan that's executing a plan.

[427] Yeah.

[428] Well, the police, when they heard about it, actually thought that it could possibly be an escapee from the Creedmoor asylum, which was close to the scene of one of the murders, which is chilling.

[429] But, yes.

[430] So now they have these two strikingly similar stories from these two witnesses.

[431] They have no connection to each other.

[432] So they finally take Catherine's testimony seriously.

[433] I as well as Betty's, and they began a more earnest investigation and find that the local newspaper are already a few steps ahead of them, the killer has been sending letters to the daily news offices asking them to print his messages.

[434] Wow.

[435] Super Zodiac vibes.

[436] That's right.

[437] Like the first.

[438] Yeah.

[439] Yeah.

[440] The first letter came on June 13th, 1930 after the murder of Joseph.

[441] It reads, quote, kindly print this letter in your paper for Mosinski's friends.

[442] And then it's like a series of, you know, letters and numbers looks like a code.

[443] By doing this, you may save their lives.

[444] We do not want any more shooting unless we have to.

[445] So it's too cryptic for police to decipher, but they wouldn't have to wait long for more of an explanation because on June 14th, a second letter arrives at the Daily News calling Joseph, their first victim, a, quote, dirty rat.

[446] The killer explains that his mission was, quote, to get certain documents from Joseph.

[447] but unfortunately they were not in his possession at the time because remember he was the one that they like he had burned the documents yeah and he said that those weren't the right documents there were other documents the killer warns that if the true holder of these documents doesn't return them quote 14 more of mosensky's friends will join him and then noel gets murdered the same day that betty ring is questioned one day after noel's murder the newspaper office receives another letter from the killer explaining the alleged situation.

[448] The killer claims that he is a former officer.

[449] And this is like he's over explaining in a way that I don't think they do.

[450] In a way that liars do.

[451] That liars do?

[452] Or yeah, you're making it up.

[453] There's something going on in your head and it makes total sense in your head.

[454] But like real Russian and German spies aren't like, let me break this down for you.

[455] No. No. I think that seems to, I would guess go against the spy training.

[456] Yeah.

[457] Like number one rule of spy training.

[458] Zip it.

[459] Yeah.

[460] So the killer claims that he's a former officer of the German army and now works for the Russians as a, quote, agent of a secret international order.

[461] Like as soon as you're saying that.

[462] Yeah.

[463] Either say the name of it or don't.

[464] Right.

[465] Well, he does eventually say what it is.

[466] Oh, sorry.

[467] It's called, no, no, no. It still doesn't.

[468] It's still dumb.

[469] It's still not, okay.

[470] Okay.

[471] He says that his victims are members of his order called the Red Diamond of Russia.

[472] And then the victims that he murdered have deserted and taken top secret documents with them.

[473] Okay.

[474] He also sends along two bullet casings, which match the bullets that were used to kill Noel.

[475] So it's legitimately him.

[476] So he goes on to tell them Noel's secret society codename.

[477] And he warns that, quote, 13 more men and one woman will go.

[478] if they do not make peace with us and stop bleeding us to death.

[479] So it's like a message to the other ex -spies to like, I don't know, vass up, I don't know what.

[480] To turn over their documents.

[481] It sounds like, yeah.

[482] Noel, the killer writes, had one of the two missing documents on him, but there's one more document left to recover.

[483] And if the person he suspects has it doesn't give it up, a person and he gives their code name, it's like WRVA, it's like, you know, a random code, they will be murdered that.

[484] night, June 18th, 1930, at 9 p .m. And then he gives the location, college point neighborhood of Queens.

[485] So the night and the time and the place, he's like, here it is.

[486] What do you think happens?

[487] Everybody from Queens shows up.

[488] I would give anything to be able to travel back in time and be there that night.

[489] Five minutes.

[490] You get five minutes.

[491] The accents alone, because it's the 30s and Queens.

[492] The 30s are like next level.

[493] the aprons the hands on hips the cigarettes oh my the gestures the gesturing oh the limericks the limericks oh endless I love that idea that like people in queens are like well let's go down and see if the spies show up and get murdered like what else is there to do I mean there's no true crime podcast so you have to do it somehow yeah yeah so they all fucking show up as do the police they stake it out obviously nobody I'm sure he was there probably probably Probably, right?

[494] Like, they love that.

[495] You mean the fish -eye guy?

[496] Yeah.

[497] Oh, yeah.

[498] Yeah.

[499] He's just there watching other people look for him.

[500] Yeah.

[501] A Peter Laurie type, I'm going to say.

[502] Yep.

[503] Yep.

[504] Around 2 ,000 cars, over 2 ,000 cars from around the city make their way to college point, causing bumper -to -bumper traffic in the little neighborhood.

[505] Epic.

[506] They were always murderinos.

[507] This isn't new.

[508] It's not new.

[509] it's not just women it's not even that special it's human instinct are you going to do something fucked up well i'm going to check it out there a guy has promised to kill someone that night in a car with a gun we're expecting hey let's get in the car and go to that spot like what the fuck i mean that i feel like that is very new yorker energy where they're like well let's go down there then right well let's let's just see for ourselves yeah yeah yeah i'm going to take some cops word for it.

[510] Right, right.

[511] So, but of course, all the hype is for nothing.

[512] No killer shows up.

[513] No murder takes place.

[514] And the following day, June 19th, the killer pens a letter saying the intended target with their code name had actually returned the documents along with $37 ,000 of blackmail money that they had allegedly secured in exchange for the documents.

[515] So, first of all, are you going to tell me how much $37 ,000 is worth in today's money?

[516] I am.

[517] And I have another, I have it right here, hold on.

[518] Because I am on the edge of my couch right now.

[519] Okay.

[520] In 1930, today would be worth, Karen.

[521] I always get this wrong.

[522] That's the point.

[523] That's the point.

[524] We've never gotten it right.

[525] I never want.

[526] Somewhere around in the market of $300 ,000.

[527] Almost $700 ,000.

[528] God, damn it.

[529] $600 ,000, $600 ,000.

[530] 694 -000 -694 -0 -0 -0 -0 -0 -0 -0 -0 -Fleshing queens new york new york so even more yeah i think everything was a penny back then i mean for real another weird detail that like will help us all this is that joseph the first victim had a month before his murder deposited eight thousand dollars into his bank account and remember he owns a And you know how much $8 ,000 was worth back.

[531] Well, was it somewhere around $250 ,000?

[532] $150 ,000.

[533] Fuck, I mean.

[534] So that's odd, right?

[535] Like, that's an odd little thing.

[536] It could, maybe he got a loan from his parents -in -law.

[537] Who knows?

[538] But if there was an overt explanation, they would, don't you think they'd explain it away right away?

[539] It might have been lost a time, you know?

[540] Same thing with, like, yeah, the writing down of the name.

[541] Like, that maybe was just lost time.

[542] Okay, now that means that both of these missing documents have been recovered, right?

[543] It's over.

[544] No, apparently there's a third missing document now because Joseph Mosinski's, this brother of one of the victims who lives in Philadelphia, he gets a threatening letter from the killer a few days later on June 21st.

[545] He accuses Joseph's brother of hiding whatever document Joseph was supposed to have.

[546] And obviously this guy calls the police immediately because he's like, I'm actually not a spy and don't have these documents.

[547] What the hell's going on?

[548] And the NYPD expand their search for the killer to Philadelphia, but they don't find anything.

[549] So that evening on June 21st, 1930, another New York publication, the New York Evening Journal, your favorite.

[550] Yeah.

[551] Lifetime member.

[552] Bringing you all the news that's news to news.

[553] I think was they're saying.

[554] Yeah, that's what it was.

[555] They get the killer's final letter.

[556] It says, quote, my mission is ended.

[557] there's no further cause for worry.

[558] He also makes it a point to say in reference to Betty's description of his appearance.

[559] Remember she called him fish eyes or whatever?

[560] Yeah.

[561] Okay, can you imagine being a fucking Russian spy?

[562] You're like diabolical.

[563] You're a murderer.

[564] You're getting documents.

[565] And someone calls you fish eyes.

[566] And so in the letter you write to the newspaper, you say, quote, I have no fish eyes.

[567] The police have fish eyes.

[568] They have been wrong from beginning to end.

[569] Like, dude, guess who has fish eyes?

[570] Such an amazing burn to be like, I don't have fish eyes.

[571] The police have fish eyes.

[572] Right.

[573] They're wrong.

[574] Like, what is happening?

[575] I bet you if they're training spies somewhere, that they're just like, try not to do a lot of chit chat in the letters to the newspaper when you're threatening and blackmailing.

[576] Here's a great idea.

[577] If a witness says you look like something, tell the newspaper.

[578] you don't actually look like that.

[579] It's not true.

[580] Work on your reactivity because it'll bring you down.

[581] If you get real sensitive about your weird unblinking eyes, they have you, you know?

[582] That's it.

[583] Come on.

[584] But apparently not.

[585] The end of the letter states, quote, do not let anyone fool you.

[586] If any more letters come, they're fakes.

[587] It is settled.

[588] And it's true.

[589] Some fake letters come in later and they like arrest people for it.

[590] But he never doesn't seem like the killer ever appears anywhere again.

[591] Huh.

[592] The murders do stop, but the police's hunt for the killer continues.

[593] Police wonder if perhaps the 3X killer was actually telling the truth about the secret organization.

[594] And of course, now on the internet, there's people who are like, fuck, maybe it's true.

[595] Like, it was during, you know, not the Cold War, but the Red Scare.

[596] Was it?

[597] We weren't friends with Russia during this time.

[598] True.

[599] That's more of a recent thing.

[600] Yeah.

[601] In my lifetime.

[602] They've always been the big bad wolf, but apparently 2016, that all changed for some reason.

[603] Yeah.

[604] You know, listeners, historians.

[605] Okay, they search extensively for the killer for the next several months.

[606] They get no solid leads.

[607] The case goes cold.

[608] Six years later in 1936, and New York State Trooper arrests a 29 -year -old guy named Frank Engel of College Point, noting his, quote, queer actions in a parking garage.

[609] What does that mean?

[610] I need more details.

[611] Just like kind of walking three steps forward and then being all jerky and then going two back and kind of like, what could you be doing?

[612] Oh, my.

[613] He's like dancing to divo.

[614] He's a time traveler.

[615] Like, what's like, he's like, I'm about equality.

[616] People are like arrest him immediately.

[617] He confesses to the three X murders, but his story is discredited.

[618] And he's committed to an asylum for psychiatric treatment because that's what they did back then.

[619] straight to jail.

[620] Well, at least they had services for people who needed mental support.

[621] Right.

[622] So the three X killings are thought by some to be an inspiration for both the son of Sam because it was killing people on lover's land, like couples.

[623] Right.

[624] And the Zodiac murders.

[625] Like, maybe both those dudes knew about these murders.

[626] Maybe.

[627] And there's a theory that the killer could be related to the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, which happened in 1932, two years later.

[628] Oh, yeah.

[629] Because of the whole German tie and some of the handwriting analysis, that kind of thing.

[630] But there's very little evidence there.

[631] By little, I mean none.

[632] By little, I mean the habit that people who pay attention to true crime have of going, what if there is a super larger plan where this one killer is a bunch of killers?

[633] Yeah.

[634] It's called speculation and we fucking love it and like, sorry.

[635] Yeah.

[636] And also it would be really satisfying if there are not repeated versions of the same horrifying type of man out in the world but just one bad guy exactly that's a really nice idea it's like very calming but no it's like thinking i think zodiac's probably multiple people don't you oh i don't know i think they're not all attributed to him i think there's multiple people yeah once they started yeah because it was like basically people's first experience would they repeat like a serial true serial killer yeah yeah who knows we're not going to figure that out today not today no i have a whole my own whole story to tell right and you have to listen to future episodes to know do we solve this case that's right as i said some believe he may have been an escapee from the creedmore asylum but as the years roll on and no new suspects emerge the mystery of the three x killer is still alive today and that is the story of the Queens, New York 3X killer.

[637] Oh, I am absolutely going to look on Reddit threads for all the people who have done deep ass dives on this.

[638] Because that is just enough mystery to be like, this could just as easily, this was a person getting revenge for various specific reasons.

[639] Like the two guys weren't connected, the two victims.

[640] The podcast, The Trail went cold, does a deep dive, and he is so good at research.

[641] Congratulations.

[642] Hey.

[643] So that's a good one to listen to.

[644] Well, some people do it for a living.

[645] As do our own researchers, our research is now amazing because we hired people who know how to do it for a living.

[646] Makes all the difference.

[647] I really enjoyed the research.

[648] I don't know how you feel.

[649] I think I was good at it.

[650] And I had a lot of fun with it.

[651] Oh, yeah.

[652] We worked our asses off on that shit.

[653] So much of my life every week.

[654] Going down rabbit holes, finding a little bits of information.

[655] That's part of what I'm proud of.

[656] podcast so yeah i loved that that's a cold case i can get behind yeah 1930s man it's like a time and a place yeah fascinating and also like it just could have easily been a person who got a bunch of really weird ideas and took a red rubber ring stamp and put some stamps around people's names and made some weird plans because he didn't like his neighbor or you know whatever who knows yeah like he took the first guy out because he actually did now that was his neighbor and he hated him.

[657] And then he had to do another one to cover the fact that it was just a neighbor he hated.

[658] Right.

[659] Because they would have found that out.

[660] So then he made up this whole fake thing about, you know, being a spy.

[661] Yeah, he tried to take maybe a personal vendetta and make it into like this is an international espionage thing.

[662] So the cops wouldn't be on to him.

[663] Yeah, maybe.

[664] Well, thanks.

[665] That was great.

[666] Thank you.

[667] You did great research on it.

[668] Allie did great research on it.

[669] Allie's amazing.

[670] Jay did this research, but love them both.

[671] Oh, well, props to Jay Elias, because he also did my research.

[672] So he's holding down this entire episode.

[673] Yes, he is.

[674] But then pointed you in the direction where you could go then know about it and read up about it.

[675] Appreciate it.

[676] I still do research, guys.

[677] We really like these topics.

[678] That's why we have a podcast about it.

[679] It's pretty interesting.

[680] And it's fun to talk about something that you just learned about, like you're a lifelong expert.

[681] That's really one of my favorite things to do.

[682] I think that that's what the name of the podcast comes from is like, oh, my God, this is my favorite murder.

[683] Like, we don't mean that we love the thing.

[684] It's the way it said that is translated that way, right?

[685] You knew that.

[686] I'm not explaining it to you.

[687] Okay.

[688] Wait, what?

[689] Okay, so this is also a little bit of a left turn.

[690] Not that we really have to take one after that story, but I find this so compelling.

[691] and I would love to watch a movie about this.

[692] So I'm going to tell you today about the most prolific art thief in modern history.

[693] Who?

[694] Right?

[695] Well, I'll tell you, in early 1994, a 22 -year -old Frenchman named Stefan Bright Weezer.

[696] Now, his name is pronounced differently in different forms of media.

[697] Yeah.

[698] And some people pronounce it Stafin, but I've also heard more native English -speaking people pronounce it like the classic Stefan.

[699] Yeah.

[700] I'm just going to do it that way because I'm going to end up doing it.

[701] Yeah, I'm going to request Stefan.

[702] Stefan, I think that's truly the pronunciation, instead of me pretending I have an accent that's like French -Swedish.

[703] It would be weird.

[704] Okay.

[705] So a 22 -year -old Frenchman named Stefan Brightweiser and his girlfriend, 22 -year -old nurses aide, on Katerine Klaeuse, the two of them are visiting a museum called the Museum of the friends of tan in northeastern france the two of them are both art lovers but stephan grew up rich and he had priceless works of art in his house because of that so he has a particularly strong attachment to the visual arts and the finer things in life he loves like this kind of art congratulations right so as he's walking through this museum his girlfriend he sees something that stops him in his tracks, it's a hand -carved flint -lock pistol from the 18th century.

[706] It reminds him of an antique weapon that his father used to own.

[707] Obviously, there's some nostalgia there, but it's also very beautifully made.

[708] Stefan loves this one in this museum.

[709] He loves it more than anything he ever saw his father have.

[710] He looks around and then he notices there's no security guard and there's no alarm system in this museum.

[711] And then he notices the display case this gun is in is partially open.

[712] Oh, shit.

[713] So he points it out to his girlfriend, and he says that he tells her he doesn't think that this pistol belongs cooped up in this stuffy museum.

[714] He thinks it should be with someone who would truly appreciate it every day.

[715] Free range guns, great idea.

[716] Basically, all museums should really be about who deserves it most.

[717] And then they get to take it home.

[718] Like a library for rich assholes.

[719] So basically he says that to her kind of joking, saying, this shouldn't be here.

[720] It's, you know, it deserves to go home with me, thinking that she'd be like the voice of reason.

[721] And instead she looks at him and says, go ahead, take it.

[722] And so he does.

[723] Honey, enabling.

[724] Mm -hmm.

[725] And so thus begins the story of art thief, Stefan Brightweiser.

[726] The main sources that Jay used in today's story are an article from GQ, entitled The Secrets of the World's Greatest Art Thief by Michael Finkel.

[727] And just so you guys know, Michael Finkel has been on Wicked Words with Kate Winkler -Dawson.

[728] Go listen to the Wicked Words episode.

[729] It is entitled Michael Finkel, The Art Thief.

[730] That's the name of the book Michael Finkel wrote.

[731] He is not an art thief.

[732] And also an article from The New Yorker written by a writer named Catherine Schultz on the art. this topic and the rest of the sources are in our show notes.

[733] So we'll talk about Stefan first.

[734] He's born on October 1st, 1971.

[735] So he's a year younger than me. He's an only child raised in the Alsace region of France.

[736] I don't know if Alsace is the way you pronounce it, but we'll see what happens.

[737] Let the French come after me. I don't care.

[738] In the Alsace region of northeastern France, near the French -Swiss border.

[739] So as I said, he grew up wealthy.

[740] His father was a executive at a company in Switzerland.

[741] His mother was a nurse.

[742] He spends summers boating on Lake Geneva, winter skiing in the Swiss Alps, you know, the life, the life.

[743] And of course, his house is filled with the finest antique furniture, priceless works of art that his father collects.

[744] I'm getting salt burn because I just started watching that.

[745] Yeah.

[746] Did you watch that?

[747] Yeah.

[748] And I'm like thinking about because I just, yeah, I just saw the tour of the house and it's like, what in the fuck?

[749] Isn't that so beautifully directed that movie?

[750] Like, it's so great.

[751] Yeah.

[752] I haven't finished it, but I'm excited.

[753] And that really must be quite something to grow up in a house where you are surrounded by the most beautiful things people ever made in all time, essentially.

[754] And like when they walk through that one room and there's like old, you know, classic expensive portraits and he's like, ancestor, ancestor.

[755] It's like those portraits that are worth millions, that's your fucking great uncle.

[756] I mean, I can't even...

[757] It's your relative.

[758] Right.

[759] Aunt Carol, Uncle Martin.

[760] Look at him.

[761] Can you imagine?

[762] My friend Adam has a portrait like that, and it's his, like, great, great, maybe great grandmother, and it is such an amazing...

[763] I'm like, this is the greatest painting I've ever seen, because it's a gold frame, all black.

[764] She's wearing black.

[765] Yeah.

[766] She looks furious.

[767] Yes.

[768] She looks like a Puritan, and it is, like, hilarious.

[769] but also incredibly scary.

[770] She's a goth.

[771] She's an original goth.

[772] She's what the goths are gothing about.

[773] She's a physigoth.

[774] So she invaded the goths.

[775] Okay.

[776] So for Stefan, art is one of the highlights of his childhood.

[777] He's infatuated with beautiful objects, unlike everybody else who hates beautiful objects.

[778] It's like a set point for him at an early age where he really, it was his passion and it really did love.

[779] art. And also, because of that, you know, rich people have it bad, too, everybody.

[780] Do that?

[781] Because it sounds like he's got some, what's the word?

[782] Privilege.

[783] Yeah, but also, like, that things belong to me no matter what.

[784] Entitlement.

[785] Entitlement.

[786] Oh, hell, yes.

[787] You know.

[788] This is a story of entitlement, I think.

[789] For sure.

[790] But he also, his parents expect they want him to go to college and be a lawyer.

[791] He's really, really smart.

[792] But he doesn't like school.

[793] He is seriously introverted.

[794] He has virtually no social life.

[795] Even though when he was boating and skiing all through his childhood, he usually was alone.

[796] He was, like, crying while he was boating and skiing.

[797] Yeah, just the saddest little skier making pizza with his skis and like trying to, you know.

[798] He doesn't, like, he is one of those kind of, maybe deep down he was like a frustrated artist himself, but he had a hard time like understanding or getting along with other kids.

[799] It was like a mismatch for him.

[800] He didn't like sports.

[801] He didn't like video games.

[802] He didn't go to parties.

[803] He had a little bit of a temper.

[804] So it was kind of, I think, maybe like you're saying, there's a chance.

[805] It was like, why isn't, he was an only child of rich people.

[806] Sure.

[807] That can't be.

[808] Not easy.

[809] Yeah.

[810] Not great for the personality and for the flexibility.

[811] Definitely.

[812] So he basically all, he wants to spend all of his time in museums and exploring archaeological sites, which apparently there are a bunch of in the area that he grew up in near the French, Swiss border.

[813] So ultimately, Stefan winds up dropping out of college after just a few years, and then I wrote in all caps, No Shame in that.

[814] Hey, been there.

[815] Been there, are that?

[816] Some of us have done it.

[817] And more No Shame moves back in with his parents.

[818] Sure.

[819] He gets a job working as a security guard at the Historical Museum of Mull House, where he studies exactly how museum security works.

[820] And he learns a couple key things.

[821] One of them is guards tend to focus more on the paper.

[822] visiting the museum and less on the art so they don't necessarily know exactly what pieces are on display they're just watching people also the museum security cameras at that time were sometimes fake so if there were visible wires he put it together that that probably meant they were real but if they were just like a camera sitting up there there was a chance it was fake same with when i x worked for bed bath and beyond those were fake cameras do you know what's not fake camera cameras target everyone says that's like that was like a tic -tok going around where it's like do not steal from target ever yeah that makes sense so on the last day of his security job at the historical museum of mall house siphon steals a 15 hundred year old merivengian belt buckle fuck and just like talk to you later and no one notices that it's gone in any kind of timely way So like something small, that's smart.

[823] Yep.

[824] Nothing comes of it, essentially.

[825] Yeah.

[826] But then in his personal life, everything changes when he turns 22 and his parents get a divorce.

[827] It's a very contentious and traumatic divorce.

[828] And when his dad leaves, the worst part for Stefan was his dad took his entire art collection with him.

[829] Okay.

[830] So now he lives with his mother on her nurse's salary.

[831] and his mother, Marai, is her name.

[832] They're forced to downsize from a big, beautiful house full of fine art to a small apartment with IKEA furniture.

[833] And so that, of course, clearly for him a true estate and someone who that really matters to makes it all the harder, hard enough just as it is.

[834] Parents getting divorced, things splitting up like that.

[835] I'm sorry.

[836] IKEA has art, though.

[837] They sure do.

[838] Do you want three white horses running through a podcast?

[839] You got it.

[840] The skyline of New York at sunset.

[841] Hell yes.

[842] They got it.

[843] A zoom in on a leaf.

[844] So actually you're looking at the pattern of a leaf, but you're also looking at the pattern of the world.

[845] Ikea.

[846] Okay, back to this.

[847] Sorry.

[848] Everything in his life is falling apart.

[849] And that's when he meets a young woman named Aunt Katerine Klein Klaus.

[850] And suddenly, Stefan has a reason to be happy again.

[851] The two of them share a lot of the same.

[852] interests.

[853] They both love archaeology.

[854] They both love avoiding other people.

[855] They both love art museums.

[856] And later, Stefan will say that he, quote, loved her right away.

[857] Yeah.

[858] So soon after they get together, she moves in with him at his mother's house in the town of Mulhouse, France, where they live, which to me does not sound like a French town in the least.

[859] Mollhaus.

[860] No. It's probably pronounced differently.

[861] Yeah.

[862] But that sounds like a reject.

[863] from The Simpsons, where it's like, no, he can't be in it anymore.

[864] Nobody likes that kid.

[865] You know Mulhouse, Canada.

[866] You never heard of it?

[867] Millhouse's cousin, Mullhouse, is in another episode, and I don't like it.

[868] It's just a couple of months after she moves in that they decide to visit the museum in Tan, then they decide together to steal that flint -locked pistol.

[869] Okay.

[870] But this last -minute couple's art heist will not be their last.

[871] So about a year later in February of 1995, the two of them attempt another art theft during a visit to a small museum in the Alsatian Mountains.

[872] And this time, the object of Stefan's desire is, get this, one of the easier things to steal.

[873] Oh, no, what?

[874] A medieval crossbow.

[875] And it's not just a medieval crossbow, like, behind some glass, whatever.

[876] It's hanging from the ceiling of the exhibition room by a wire.

[877] grab a relief or something like come on he's like no that's not because he's and he will say this later he really does it he like follows his heart he goes around and waits until something really strikes him he doesn't just try to steal whatever I love the idea of him carrying it out being like oh no I brought this in this is my crossroad that I brought in with me yeah yeah I thought it was crossbow day at the museum my mistake I'll come back in April okay how's he going to do it.

[878] I kind of love her supporting him, though, to be honest.

[879] I do too.

[880] Here's the thing.

[881] It's hard to find people that you actually really get along with in this world.

[882] And when you do find things that kind of light both of you up at the same time.

[883] That you thought were weird quirks of yours and no one had to keep to yourself?

[884] Yep.

[885] For sure.

[886] And instead, you're like, I want this because I'm a greedy little bad boy rich kid that has had his heart broken by art. And she's like, I see you, I understand you, and I support you.

[887] Yeah.

[888] Take what.

[889] you want yeah kind of he makes her be go be the lookout okay and then he goes there's a chair on the other end of this medieval room right and he the only way he can figure out how to get up to get his crossbow is by going over and dragging the chair a medieval chair yes dragging it across the room under the the crossbow right the length of the entire hallway it says he stands on it unhooks the crossbow from the wire, stuffs the crossbow under his jacket, and then the couple walk out.

[890] Okay.

[891] The high they must have felt a dinner that night, like, your heart would still be racing hours later.

[892] The makeout sash that they had.

[893] Oh.

[894] How much hotter does that guy look once he's stolen a crossbow off the ceiling?

[895] A medieval crossbow, even.

[896] That's a high -quality man. He can steal all the weaponry.

[897] now it's an apocalypse like husband you know yes like he could take care of shit in the apocalypse there's a golden retriever husband then there's your apocalypse medieval warrior husband that you're looking for these days okay so they get away with that the sex is incredible a month later in march of 1995 they take a trip to the castle of grayer in parentheses in red j put pronounced like the cheese thank you thanks jay also So I want to go there immediately and start eating the castle made out of Greer in my mind.

[898] Go look out the window and just take a bite out of the window.

[899] So it's a heritage center and it's a museum in Switzerland.

[900] And as they are walking through it, Stefan sees an 18th century painting of a woman by an artist named Christian Wilhelm Ernst Diedrich of Germany.

[901] And he loves this painting.

[902] So once again, on Catherine goes to be the lookout.

[903] Stefan pulls out his Swiss Army knife, and he begins to pull the nails from the picture frame one by one until he can slip the painting out of the frame and down the back of his pants.

[904] Ew.

[905] Well, it's just in his waistband.

[906] It doesn't go all the way under the butt.

[907] Okay.

[908] It's just, it's held in his waistband, kind of like, you know, a little fanny pack.

[909] Yeah.

[910] No one sees them do it.

[911] No one stops them.

[912] They walk out real calm and collected.

[913] Wow.

[914] The perfect cover.

[915] When you're white and look rich, you can just fucking get away with anything.

[916] And are a couple.

[917] Oh, a couple's a good cover for sure.

[918] They're just like, not those two innocent young lovers.

[919] Thus begins the art heist date night practice that they get super into.

[920] Venturing out to museums or art shows nearly every single week to steal a new prize possession.

[921] Oh, my God.

[922] I'm like excited for some reason.

[923] I know, right?

[924] It's terrible.

[925] Don't do that.

[926] But it's like.

[927] It's bad and they're being bad and wrong.

[928] but there's something about the like we're doing it as a team that's very appealing and cute.

[929] And we're like in our early 20s and we're making dumb, big, like make the biggest mistake you can then.

[930] Completely.

[931] Also, this is exactly in the pocket of time where it's like, you know he made her a mixtape.

[932] You know.

[933] Dinosaur Jr. is on that shit.

[934] Fucking The Cure.

[935] Oh, my.

[936] Every Cure song is like their song for sure.

[937] However far away, I will always love you.

[938] Okay, so.

[939] Yeah.

[940] So the stolen art starts piling up so high in their little attic apartment that they can barely keep track of all their new treasure.

[941] And the more he steals, the better he gets at stealing.

[942] So how does they get away with it for so long?

[943] Because he does, he basically follows a couple rules for him that he makes up for himself.

[944] And basically the overall rule is keep it simple.

[945] Don't make elaborate plans like you're in the movies because the more obvious you are, the more risk you draw to yourself.

[946] So in Stefan's opinion, the best thefts are the ones that happen right under everyone's noses and kind of like improvisationally.

[947] So basically he and on Katerin always go to the museums around lunchtime.

[948] They just go up and buy their tickets all normal and natural because he realized it's less crowded at lunchtime, like people come in the morning and leave for lunch or come after lunch.

[949] Yeah.

[950] So it's less crowded and the security guards are switching shifts.

[951] Oh.

[952] So it thins up the security staff and gets rid of witnesses.

[953] Yeah.

[954] And the only tool Stefan ever brings with him are his Swiss Army knife.

[955] And then if it's cold enough to justify it, a big coat to hide the art in.

[956] Also, he never goes in with a plan to steal anything in particular.

[957] Like I said, he waits until he sees something that he that catches his eye, then he sees if he can formulate a plan based on how many security guards are around, where the item is being displayed, where any cameras might be, how many patrons flowing in and out of the exhibit.

[958] And he basically tells himself, if he truly loves this piece, like enough so that he's the one that should have it, that should give him the courage necessary to pull off the theft in plain sight without getting caught.

[959] In addition to loving the piece, Stefan aims for items that are on the smaller side so he can smuggle it out of the museum easily.

[960] So sculptures and other 3D objects can be no more than the size of a brick.

[961] And then the painting should only ever be about a foot by a foot in size.

[962] He believes it's important for him to remain patient and never like try to cut the painting out of the frame because damaging the art itself in order to steal it is an insult to the artwork.

[963] He has to either be able to, to remove the painting from its frame in full and not fold it or roll it or he's not going to take it.

[964] So he has a lot of interior kind of respect -based rules because he loves the art so much.

[965] So I think that's at least one little check in his pro side for that part.

[966] It's kind of like beautiful in that way of like it really is for the art for him.

[967] Yeah, he's not trying to resell it for the highest value.

[968] It's like he wants these beautiful things.

[969] Yeah.

[970] He just wants to have, he wants to have, he wants to have, he wants to have his childhood back.

[971] Just go to therapy.

[972] Men will steal art from every museum in Switzerland and France before they'll go to therapy.

[973] On Catherine, basically, when she's the lookout, she starts, she does a tiny little cough if somebody's coming while he's in the actual act of stealing.

[974] So that's how he knows.

[975] So when he starts to go for it, he just goes for it.

[976] He unhooks it from the frame or puts it off the ceiling or whatever.

[977] He gets it, he hides it, and then the couple walks calmly out of the museum.

[978] They go to their car.

[979] They always park in the museum parking lot or nearby parking like where anybody else would park.

[980] And they drive away at or below the speed limit, always.

[981] Stefan knows that no matter how smooth his approach at stealing the item was, the security response will always be fast.

[982] so he knows they have to get out of their fast and also calmly so as not to attract unwanted attention.

[983] So they have kind of really kind of mastered this, obviously, because he's not getting caught as they're doing it.

[984] And last but not least, Stefan never ever sells the artwork he steals, ever.

[985] That's not just how most thieves get caught, but to Stefan, it goes completely against the whole point of stealing art. He wants to have it so he can look at it.

[986] As someone collects dumb old stuff because it makes me happy to look at my collection of Ray Radbury books from the fucking 70s or whatever.

[987] Like I get that.

[988] Hell yeah.

[989] Any little thing I see, whether it's like at a vintage store or in a thrift store or like at a yard sale, if it actually remind you of something from your childhood that matters to you.

[990] right that's an antique that's a treasure or brings you a little bit of joy when every time you look at it yeah that's the point yeah my shit just cost ten dollars it's not in a fucking museum yeah but it should be and shouldn't it be okay so sticking to these strategies pays off so well that stephan starts stealing more and more and by february of 1997 he steals a 10 inch tall 400 year old ivory statuette of Adam and Eve, ironically the perfect symbol for his inability to resist temptation.

[991] And he steals it from the Rubens House Museum in Antwerp, Belgium.

[992] So the next weekend, they head over to Zurich for an art fair, and Stefan steals a silver and gold 16th century goblet.

[993] Wow.

[994] He has pretty fancy taste.

[995] So soon after that, he's never like, ooh, this matchbook.

[996] I swear to God, the way Stefan feels about like 16th century.

[997] goblets is honestly how I feel about a nicely designed matchbook at the front of a restaurant when you're leaving.

[998] Karen, how am I just figuring this out or finding this out?

[999] I feel like I'm just finding this out through the self -discovery podcasts allow.

[1000] You love a matchbook.

[1001] It doesn't have to be old.

[1002] It's just like when you're leaving a restaurant.

[1003] Do you like it better when they're in the little box that you can take out a single match rather than a matchbook, right?

[1004] Well, it feels like I don't see match books as much as the boxes anymore.

[1005] And it feels like, people.

[1006] I have this a match box from the restaurant Kismet.

[1007] Oh, yeah.

[1008] It's a beautiful little design.

[1009] So it's like you have a tiny piece of art. Okay.

[1010] But then if you want to light a candle, look no further.

[1011] Every time I see a bowl of those that go Georgia, you don't need more matches.

[1012] Because I always end up just throwing away matches at the bottom of my purse because I needed them.

[1013] But then doesn't your little baby hand go grab two anyway?

[1014] Because it's free.

[1015] I'm like, you don't need them.

[1016] Stop it.

[1017] You don't need them.

[1018] But now I'm going to do it.

[1019] You do need them.

[1020] Okay.

[1021] So after he steals the goblet, he goes to the art fair in Holland.

[1022] He swipes two more items from two different booths.

[1023] One, he steals a 1620 painting of some swans in a lake.

[1024] I would love to look at that.

[1025] That would be kind of great.

[1026] I mean, God.

[1027] He steals that while the booth vendor eats his lunch.

[1028] Then he goes over and finds a 17th century painting of the sea, and he steals that right out from under that vendor's nose.

[1029] I don't love stealing from individual people who probably aren't, hopefully are insured, but maybe not.

[1030] You know what I mean?

[1031] Right.

[1032] Yeah, because it's not a museum.

[1033] It's not like, this was donated by this billionaire or whatever.

[1034] And it's fucking insured up the butt, you know?

[1035] Right.

[1036] So, yeah.

[1037] And also, yeah, because now we're just getting into straight up shoplifting stuff you like.

[1038] Right.

[1039] Exactly.

[1040] But I think it, it, this, like, these habits at, like, an art fair, such up close and personal places, it's just.

[1041] his daring as increasing with his success because he's just not getting caught so he thinks he can do it the couple take a break for a few weeks before they head to belgium which is stephan's favorite place to steal art he says that the city attracts him like a lover and uh so there in belgium he steals a still life painting by yon van kessel the elder one of your favorite painters georgia absolutely Then they head off to Paris to steal Renaissance paintings.

[1042] They commit a small heist in Holland and two more in Belgium.

[1043] It's a spree at this point.

[1044] And each time they steal, Sifan and Ancaterin make a clean getaway.

[1045] But the missing artwork doesn't go unnoticed.

[1046] Of course, every theft is reported to police.

[1047] Police attempt to piece together the puzzle of who is stealing from museums and how the sheer volume of these thefts, suggest to police that either one of two things is going on.

[1048] The cases are unrelated and just basically art theft crimes are trending upward right now.

[1049] Or there's a large organized network of thieves who are working together to heist it up from museums.

[1050] That's all they can imagine.

[1051] Which is kind of reasonable because it doesn't make sense why these two people can just walk into museums and steal over and over.

[1052] Also, they must have some money if they're traveling like that, right?

[1053] She's like a nurse's aide.

[1054] So he gets money from his mother.

[1055] She brings the paycheck into the relationship.

[1056] He does not work.

[1057] He literally sits in their apartment and like looks at his art. Okay, bro.

[1058] Uh -huh.

[1059] Okay.

[1060] So as police gather witness testimonies, they ask witnesses to describe anyone suspicious that they saw on the day of the theft in either the museum or art fair, wherever they are.

[1061] And as they do this, they start to realize no one is sure about who or what they saw.

[1062] The descriptions of potential witnesses provide basically rough sketches at best.

[1063] And at one point, police find video footage from a French museum that captures Stefan in the act of stealing, but the video is so grainy that it does not help them make an actual identification.

[1064] At one point, police do suspect that it's a male and female couple working together, but for some reason, they guess that the couple's age is much older than the two, so nothing comes of it.

[1065] they get no leads out of that.

[1066] And this whole time, the police in all these jurisdictions are relying on London's art loss register, which is the biggest most reliable database for stolen art from all across the world.

[1067] And according to the register, over 99 % of art thieves steal with the intent to sell and make money.

[1068] Right.

[1069] Which is like slightly less than 100%.

[1070] So it's like, yeah.

[1071] Yeah.

[1072] That makes sense.

[1073] But another 1 % gives it away as gifts probably.

[1074] Yeah.

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] That's the people with the Robin Hood complexes who are just trying to impress Jesus.

[1077] So the police keep their eyes on the art market waiting to see of any of these many stolen pieces come up and they never do.

[1078] So it's like they just, they have nowhere to go.

[1079] So meanwhile, upstairs at his mother's house, Stefan and Ancaterin share the small attic apartment.

[1080] And it's of course a very small and modest space for them to live in.

[1081] But the decor is.

[1082] not.

[1083] I'm sure.

[1084] They're lining every inch of the walls are stolen masterpieces, heisted from museums all over Europe.

[1085] So on this wall over here, there's Dutch master Adrian von Ostod and France's Francois Boucher and Germany's Albrecht Dure.

[1086] All of these names would super impress art students and people who work at museums.

[1087] The shells are stacked with goblets, platters, vases, and more.

[1088] All of them made, usually out of precious metals.

[1089] Closets are filled with antique weapons and instruments and books.

[1090] Items like gilded T -sets and Napoleon's old gold snuffbox are piling up on the furniture.

[1091] He's fucking, he took a T -set out of a museum.

[1092] This is like bigger than like, this is bigger than that.

[1093] This is some like kleptomania.

[1094] Oh yes, yeah, yeah.

[1095] It's bigger than art appreciation.

[1096] Yeah, yeah.

[1097] Yes.

[1098] Agreed.

[1099] No, I bet it's now.

[1100] a bit of an addiction.

[1101] It's like an adrenaline addiction.

[1102] It's like it's kind of sexy.

[1103] It's do you dare me?

[1104] Can I do this?

[1105] I'm not who you think I am.

[1106] It's, I mean, it is, it is sexy.

[1107] You can't deny it.

[1108] Who's he played by though?

[1109] Well, Daniel, what's his name?

[1110] Who was 007 once?

[1111] You know my picturing is Wesley from a princess bride.

[1112] Oh, Carrie Lways.

[1113] Yeah.

[1114] But yes, that's a really good one.

[1115] Because he's, like, kind of dreamy, romantic, but he also is like, are you evil?

[1116] Right.

[1117] I also know a limerick or two.

[1118] I don't know why.

[1119] I keep going back to that.

[1120] Okay.

[1121] There was a young lady from something that rhymes with cunt.

[1122] That's basically every limerick.

[1123] But you were saying your suggestion is Daniel Craig for this, for Sifon's part.

[1124] That's right.

[1125] No, but it was Princess Bride.

[1126] Oh, Carrie.

[1127] Elwis is, you want that one.

[1128] Carrie Elis is your suggestion for this casting.

[1129] Here's mine.

[1130] And I don't know, this is a British actor.

[1131] His name is Ben Wischaw.

[1132] He's the voice of Paddington.

[1133] And he's been in a million things.

[1134] Oh, wait, I'll show you a picture.

[1135] Show me a pick.

[1136] I'm a brunette.

[1137] Yes.

[1138] And he's very, very tall and skinny.

[1139] Yeah.

[1140] He could sneak out of the museum.

[1141] Very sensitive.

[1142] Yeah.

[1143] He would totally wear like a long trench coat.

[1144] And you wouldn't go, why is that guy wearing a long trench coat?

[1145] be like, was he born in that trench coat?

[1146] Okay.

[1147] He just has the look on his face.

[1148] He's one of those people where it's like, mysterious.

[1149] I love Vermeer so much.

[1150] I'm going to risk it all.

[1151] Like if he apologized to you, you'd be like, okay.

[1152] That's fine.

[1153] I don't care.

[1154] Let's steal some more.

[1155] What's his name?

[1156] That's Ben Wishaw.

[1157] Okay.

[1158] I'm going to really quickly re -recommend his TV show from 2022.

[1159] It's called This Is Going to Hurt.

[1160] and he plays an emergency room doctor that's training a residence.

[1161] And it's so good.

[1162] It's really incredible, kind of realistic, like a very smart, funny, sad kind of emergency room drama from England.

[1163] I'm in.

[1164] Okay, let's get back to true crime.

[1165] So he's got all this shit in his attic apartment at his mom's house.

[1166] and including Napoleon's old gold snuff box.

[1167] He starts to call it, or he describes it as his Alibaba's cave.

[1168] So it's just filled with treasure.

[1169] The total value of these stolen goods is well into the millions, and in a short amount of time, it climbs into the billions.

[1170] That's a big leap.

[1171] Yeah, right there.

[1172] The most valuable item in his collection is a painting by one Lucas Crona, the elder, called Sebel, Princess of Cleves, and that painting is worth an estimated 5 million pounds over $6 million U .S. dollars in 1997, which would be how many U .S. dollars in today's money?

[1173] Okay, 6 million U .S. dollars in 1997, today, 1 .2 billion.

[1174] Oh, no, it's only 11 million.

[1175] Oh, ew.

[1176] Sorry.

[1177] Sorry how low that number is.

[1178] I don't really know how numbers works, like beyond that.

[1179] I don't know.

[1180] Neither does Stefan.

[1181] You both of you.

[1182] You don't care.

[1183] You're not about that.

[1184] You're not about monetary value.

[1185] That's for the great unwashed.

[1186] You and him are more interested in the artist's biographies, their mentors, their inspirations, their techniques, their styles.

[1187] So after Stefan steals a piece, he spends hours researching its background.

[1188] He's also big into research himself.

[1189] With no internet probably, so that's kind of like, right, it's late 90s.

[1190] He reads books, imagine.

[1191] He goes into the background.

[1192] He familiarizes himself with the work in its historical context.

[1193] He's clearly unemployed, so he has the time to do all of this.

[1194] Whether it's his motivation for stealing or the way he justifies his stealing or both, Stefan is genuinely passionate about art. his mother marais meanwhile has no idea what is going on just above her head in her own house the couple leaves their attic apartment locked they do not have visitors and marais does not go upstairs every night when the three of them eat dinner together marais is totally oblivious to the fact that just in this second level of her own house there are what will end up being billions of dollars worth of stolen art piling up Jesus.

[1195] So, as successful a thief as Stefan has been, he has had some close calls.

[1196] The first one had nothing to do with actual theft.

[1197] It happens afterwards when they're walking back to their car and they find a cop, writing them a ticket.

[1198] And instead of his old rule of laying low and being low -key, he actually argues with the police officer.

[1199] And he ends up talking his way out of this ticket, all while carrying pieces of a 16th century, wooden altarpiece in his waistband under his jacket.

[1200] Oh, my God.

[1201] So brazen, is he getting brazen?

[1202] Is he getting confident?

[1203] Is he turning into a different person like Jim carries the mask?

[1204] That's what it seems like.

[1205] And he's also a dude in his early 20s that's just fucking getting away with crime.

[1206] So he obviously feels immortal.

[1207] It's like audacity on tap is what's happening.

[1208] Yeah.

[1209] It's that entitlement issue that you mentioned earlier.

[1210] It's become big now.

[1211] He's arguing with cops with stolen shit in his pants.

[1212] The second close call is far more threatening.

[1213] They're on a visit to an art gallery in Lucerne, Switzerland in 1997, and the two are disappointed to find they are the only people in this art gallery.

[1214] So, of course, on Katerin beg Stefan not to steal anything that day.

[1215] They're far too exposed.

[1216] Plus, there is a police station directly across the street.

[1217] But what am I about to tell you right now?

[1218] He did it anyway.

[1219] Yep.

[1220] Because he knows best.

[1221] Right.

[1222] And he can't help it.

[1223] Right.

[1224] So he swipes a painting by Dutch painter Willem von Alst, Iest, but it's too warm outside for him to be wearing a jacket.

[1225] So he simply tucks the painting under his arm and starts to walk out of the museum.

[1226] Bro, let one go.

[1227] Well, it's like, are we at the tipping point where you can't handle this anymore?

[1228] You can't handle your own success.

[1229] You can't actually handle this much power.

[1230] It is intoxicating.

[1231] and now you're just high on your own supply.

[1232] Yeah, and she doesn't trust you anymore.

[1233] And, like, that's...

[1234] Yeah, you're not being a team player.

[1235] If she doesn't get to have any input about when you should or shouldn't do something, then fuck you.

[1236] You're like on your own.

[1237] You'll get no small cough from me, sir.

[1238] But for the first time in his art he's career, an art gallery actually stops him because he has a painting under his arm walking out.

[1239] And that gallery worker drags the couple across the street to the police station.

[1240] held, questioned, fingerprinted, they both spend the night in jail.

[1241] But the next day, they actually somehow convinced the cops that this was their first time stealing anything and that they will never do it again.

[1242] They walk away with a slap on the wrist.

[1243] What?

[1244] For stealing from an art gallery.

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] Like, and also stealing like an old.

[1247] Yeah.

[1248] You know, if it's a Dutch painter that's in a museum, that's an important painting.

[1249] You didn't steal a fucking Mabeline lip tent.

[1250] You know, know like Georgia did like I did when I was a juvenile delinquent yeah it's it's different it's a different yeah it's different and the reason here's how you know it's different you're high as a kite doing it that's the difference wait me or him oh I meant him but whoever it applies to yeah I want to include everybody however you get your stealing high yeah so they they get out you know they know they lucked out so on their ride home they promise each other they will never steal in Switzerland ever again.

[1251] Come on.

[1252] Right?

[1253] They can't quit cold turkey at this point.

[1254] So it's around this time that the relationship begins to deteriorate.

[1255] As she approaches her 30s, on Kateran's priorities start to shift.

[1256] Yeah.

[1257] She wants, obviously, to socialize more.

[1258] She wants to start a family.

[1259] She would like to pursue something greater in life than stealing.

[1260] Yeah.

[1261] And any of those things would be difficult to do with the way that they have to live because they're actually on the run and hiding from the law, basically.

[1262] But whereas she feels stifled, he feels invincible.

[1263] He's gotten away with so much theft that it's hard for him not to see himself as superhuman, of course.

[1264] So the two fight more and more, and Stefan just decides to strike out on his own.

[1265] So he starts doing larger heists alone, including literally lifting a 150 -pound wooden carving of the Madonna and child from a local church in broad daylight.

[1266] Jesus, literally.

[1267] He doesn't give a fuck at this point.

[1268] And men who think they're invincible are dangerous.

[1269] Yeah, especially around art. What?

[1270] The only thing keeping him safe is the lack of witnesses in this situation, which was just pure chance.

[1271] On Katerin wants this leaving to stop, but the best she can get out of him is a promise that he will wear surgical gloves while he's stealing.

[1272] he doesn't leave fingerprints, but she has to steal them from her work so that to give them to him so that he'll wear them.

[1273] So it's great.

[1274] It's a great situation.

[1275] They had never worried before about leaving fingerprints because they'd never been arrested before.

[1276] So now that they were actually in the system, they would be able to be found if they were to be arrested again.

[1277] Of course, Stefan can't keep this promise.

[1278] On November 19th, 2001, he comes back from a thieving trip at the Richard Wagner Museum near Lucerne, Switzerland, where they promised not to steal anymore.

[1279] And he comes back with the 16th century bugle horn.

[1280] But they already have one.

[1281] What the fuck?

[1282] So on Catherine's pissed, because she's like, what are you doing?

[1283] You didn't even need this one.

[1284] You're now doubling up on 16th century bugles.

[1285] You're not starting a ska band.

[1286] You need to like chill.

[1287] Stop it.

[1288] Also, yeah, you've got, you've got far past loving art. Also, he didn't wear the gloves.

[1289] So there's no way his fingerprints weren't left on the display case where he stole this from.

[1290] So the next day, which is November 20th, 2001, the two of them drive back out to the Richard Wagner.

[1291] I bet it's Richard Wagner Museum, but I'm saying Wagner, to go erase those fingerprints, which I bet you was like a final straw argument that she made him do, right?

[1292] Yeah.

[1293] Because the plan was that she's going to go in alone and wipe away the fingerprints with a rag and some rubbing alcohol because he would be recognized since he was there alone the day that the thing went missing.

[1294] Oh, honey.

[1295] She begs him to wait in the car.

[1296] Of course he refuses, insisting that he's going to walk around the grounds.

[1297] Oh, dude.

[1298] But what he does like a weird addict is she goes in to clean up.

[1299] And he stands outside and watches her cleanup through a window.

[1300] But a man walking his dog sees this dude staring into the museum window and goes, that's weird.

[1301] And so he goes inside to tell an employee he thinks there's some strange behavior going on outside.

[1302] Yes, thank you, sir.

[1303] Oh, because guess what?

[1304] This sir is a journalist who has recently himself read about the stolen 16th century bugle.

[1305] He's like, and this is where it was stolen from.

[1306] And here's this guy acting weird.

[1307] I'm going in.

[1308] I'm going to tell.

[1309] So, finally, a hero.

[1310] Never mind your own business.

[1311] Just fucking.

[1312] Yeah, exactly.

[1313] Get in there.

[1314] Well, especially if you're a journalist, it's your job to not mind your own business.

[1315] So you can handle it.

[1316] He can handle the power.

[1317] Unpronounced to Stefan, now the man is inside the museum, telling the workers and security or whatever about this suspicious behavior.

[1318] An employee looks out the window, recognizes Stefan from the day before.

[1319] Not only did he fail to use gloves when he stole the bugle, but he stole it when he was one of three people in the museum that day.

[1320] All the old rules are out the window with this guy at this point.

[1321] So, on Katerin, overhears these two men talking about Stefan looking through the window and acting weird and, hey, wasn't yesterday the day that the bugle was stolen.

[1322] She panics.

[1323] She walks out of the museum at much faster pace than she normally would.

[1324] She's trying to get out there and warn him, but as she walks outside, a police car pulls up.

[1325] up behind Stefan, and they place him under arrest.

[1326] She, though, was smart enough, and please keep this in mind for all of your future heists and endeavors, she had the car keys.

[1327] So he gets arrested, and she basically melts into the background, turns around, gets into the car, and drives home.

[1328] And she's like, and that's that for me. Yeah.

[1329] Stefan's arrested.

[1330] He is now in custody, and he tells police, this is just a one -time theft.

[1331] He doesn't.

[1332] He doesn't.

[1333] He doesn't doesn't have a lot of money.

[1334] And he just wanted to get his mother a nice gift for Christmas.

[1335] So he stole her a 16th century bugle horn.

[1336] Of course.

[1337] But the problem is the police run his prints.

[1338] They find he's been arrested for stealing art once before.

[1339] And of course, they start to wonder how many times he's actually stolen from museums in Switzerland or anywhere, for that matter.

[1340] So Stefan remains in a Swiss jail cell for the next few weeks, while the Swiss police obtain an international search warrant.

[1341] so that they can go search his mother's house.

[1342] Oh, dear.

[1343] By mid -December, the Swiss and French police knock on Mirai's door.

[1344] They hand her the international search warrant.

[1345] She lets them inside.

[1346] They climb the stairs up to the attic apartment.

[1347] But when they unlock the door, there's nothing inside.

[1348] Oh, girl fucking head shit.

[1349] The paintings, books, statues, weapons, goblets, bugle horns, double bugle horns, all gone.

[1350] The police are absolutely.

[1351] stumped.

[1352] Now, maybe they think Stefan's telling the truth.

[1353] He really is just a small -time thief.

[1354] But then a few days later, a passerby is going on a walk along a remote section of the Rhone Ryan Canal, which is near Mull House, France, and that passerby spots something shimmering in the water.

[1355] How excited.

[1356] I would be so excited.

[1357] What's that shimmering?

[1358] So he grabs a rake, he digs the object out, and it is a gold chalice.

[1359] Come on, mudlarker, like the best moment of your life.

[1360] This is a dream moment.

[1361] This man or woman, I think it's a man, got to have, is like, is this the Holy Grail?

[1362] Here in the Rhone Rine.

[1363] So he keeps digging and the more he keeps digging in this canal, the more treasure turns up.

[1364] He finds a be jeweled dagger.

[1365] He finds silver platters.

[1366] He finds all kinds of stuff.

[1367] He reports to the police.

[1368] They get out there.

[1369] They dredge the canal and a slew of stolen museum pieces are found from all across Europe.

[1370] She just fucking yielded that into the water?

[1371] Well, yes, and the police photograph everything that they find in the canal.

[1372] They returned to Stefan's jail cell in early January 2002, and they show him a picture of a metal he once stole, telling him they know he stole it, and that if he confesses, they will let him go.

[1373] Stefan at this point, of course, he's been interrogated for hours.

[1374] He's been in jail for weeks.

[1375] He's completely broken from his time behind bars.

[1376] This is not a kind of life that he can live in any way.

[1377] So it doesn't take long for him to confess.

[1378] With each photo that they put down of each stolen item, he confesses to his crimes.

[1379] But then he notices in one of the pictures that there's rust on one of the items.

[1380] And he asks the officers what happened.

[1381] They tell him the items were recovered from the canal.

[1382] And then he pieces together basically what must have happened.

[1383] So the exact details can't be confirmed but Stefan believes that things must have gone like this after his arrest on Kateran drove straight to his mother's house she spilled all the secrets about stealing the art to his mother.

[1384] So Marai, understandably angry and disappointed, still she doesn't want to see her son go to prison for theft.

[1385] So in an effort to save him, she gathers up everything up in that apartment, artwork, chalices, crossbows, everything, and she destroys as much of it as she can.

[1386] No. No. Priceless paintings, centuries -old artworks, one -of -a -kind items that can never be duplicated are shredded and set on fire.

[1387] Honey.

[1388] That's the problem with boy moms.

[1389] They just go crazy.

[1390] They love those boys so much.

[1391] They make extreme decisions because they have extreme people.

[1392] Hashtag, what are you even doing right now?

[1393] Burning that Vermeer in the name of your lazy son.

[1394] Oh, my God.

[1395] Yeah, it's tough.

[1396] Yeah, it's tough.

[1397] It was this part of the story that made me realize how much I care about art. Because I was like, wait, what?

[1398] That's so sad.

[1399] It's this part of the story that makes me just sure that I don't want kids.

[1400] You know?

[1401] Oh, God.

[1402] Can you imagine?

[1403] You're standing around at bonfire of the most important historical items where you're like, shit, he did it again.

[1404] What's the solution here?

[1405] You know what?

[1406] You know what?

[1407] Yeah, that's right.

[1408] You're on restriction.

[1409] Okay, so, but she can't destroy everything.

[1410] So she takes everything that she can't burn or shred or whatever and throws it into the canal.

[1411] So that's why it's all the things that are made of metal.

[1412] and, you know, insanely priceless, beautiful things.

[1413] It's clear that Stefan is going down for his crimes.

[1414] He is so preoccupied with the loss of his art collection that he doesn't care about his impending punishment.

[1415] Police divers are actually able to save most of the art that's dumped in the canal, although most of it does have water damage.

[1416] Although, you know, art that's survived for like 1 ,500 years, it's like, that's okay.

[1417] Yeah.

[1418] It's made so well.

[1419] It's doing good.

[1420] It gives a character.

[1421] I mean, it's been through something.

[1422] Aside from the work stumped in the canal, there are at least 60 other pieces, mostly paintings that are never recovered.

[1423] Oh, my God.

[1424] They're all presumed destroyed.

[1425] Stefan is so devastated by the loss of the art that he actually attempts to kill himself and is put on suicide watch.

[1426] So it's not like put on personality thing.

[1427] this is a truth about him as a person.

[1428] This is, he truly did it all for the love of the art and to have the art. But it's also his fault that they're all now destroyed.

[1429] Yeah, that's tough.

[1430] That's irony, baby.

[1431] Yeah, it is.

[1432] So he is first tried in Switzerland where he's found guilty.

[1433] Then he's extradited to France, where he's found guilty again.

[1434] He spends two years in prison in each country for a total of four years.

[1435] He's released in 2005 at the age of 33.

[1436] I know.

[1437] That's all he got?

[1438] Yeah.

[1439] Well, yeah.

[1440] So Mariah admits to destroying the stolen art, although she claimed she had no idea what it was worth.

[1441] Okay.

[1442] But here's the thing.

[1443] I know what she's saying, right?

[1444] And she couldn't have truly known the exact number.

[1445] But when you're standing in front of a Dutch master's painting, you can see the value.

[1446] That's what art is.

[1447] It's like, you can see it.

[1448] If you lit it on fire to hide the fact that he stole it.

[1449] it means you know that it was a big deal yeah so it's not just like oh shit this stuff from ikea i better light it on fire you know yeah no although i'd never light that three horse painting on fire from ikea so for her part in the destruction of the art maria gets a three -year sentence but she serves 18 months wow but she gets almost as long as the person responsible Which is, hey, let's take a look at that, France.

[1450] On Catarin gets lucky.

[1451] She spends one night in jail, but as Stefan's accomplice, he never, and this is also very beautiful, I think, for this story.

[1452] He never implicates her in any of these crimes during the trials.

[1453] He takes all the blame on himself, and it's only after the trials are over that he reveals or that he claims that she was his lookout.

[1454] so he never busts her.

[1455] I mean, the bar is so low for men these days.

[1456] He didn't testify against me, you guys.

[1457] I'm going to text him.

[1458] I think I'm just going to text him and see if he testified against him.

[1459] And then I'm going to call it from there.

[1460] When all is said and done, Stefan Brightweiser has stolen roughly 300 works of art from 200 different museums between 1994 and 2001.

[1461] The total value of everything he's stolen during this time is estimated to be between 1 .5 and 1 .9 billion U .S. Ds.

[1462] Dude.

[1463] One of the conditions of his release in 2005 is that he is not allowed to enter a museum or an art gallery ever again.

[1464] How do you enforce it?

[1465] It's impossible.

[1466] That's the good faith.

[1467] This picture up in the back.

[1468] Like you bounce to check.

[1469] Yeah.

[1470] Oh, my God.

[1471] So he goes by this guideline.

[1472] He listens for a little while, but not only does he go back to visiting museums, he gets right back to stealing art the first time he lays eyes on something that he loves.

[1473] No. It starts with a theft from an art gallery in Belgium.

[1474] It ends with a 2011 police raid on his home, once again, resulting in the recovery of 30 stolen pieces of art. He has put on trial again.

[1475] And in 2013, he's given a three -year sentence.

[1476] He's released in 2016.

[1477] He's promptly put up back on police radar when they find him trying to sell a stolen antique paperweight on eBay.

[1478] So now he's actually selling it.

[1479] So the police keep tabs on him until they have enough evidence to issue another raid on his home.

[1480] This time, they find Roman coins stolen from an archaeology museum and 163 ,000 euros stashed in buckets.

[1481] Wow.

[1482] Wow.

[1483] The perfect place to put euros.

[1484] He's arrested again in February 2019.

[1485] He's tried in March of 23 last month.

[1486] Hi.

[1487] Nope.

[1488] This is 2024 right now where we're in.

[1489] I'm so sorry.

[1490] He's trying.

[1491] That's horrible news.

[1492] God damn it.

[1493] He's trying.

[1494] I don't know.

[1495] A year ago.

[1496] No, no. You got this.

[1497] Keep going.

[1498] The conviction in my voice to wait.

[1499] I want to believe that I know.

[1500] I want to.

[1501] No, that I believe.

[1502] You better leave out in, Alejandra.

[1503] Fuck.

[1504] He's tried in March of 23.

[1505] And he's currently on house arrest.

[1506] So while Stefan's in prison, he writes a memoir detailing these thefts from 1994 to 2001.

[1507] And also journalist Michael Finkel writes a more comprehensive biography of Stefan's life entitled The Art Thief.

[1508] Finkel's book takes a more objective viewpoint on Stefan's life.

[1509] Both books make his motivations clear.

[1510] to hold beauty in the palm of his hand and to be what Stefan remembers fondly as feeling like, quote, the master of the world.

[1511] Yeah.

[1512] It's so weird to think that you deserve to feel that way by stealing other people's shit.

[1513] And that is the story of art thief, Stefan Brightweiser.

[1514] Wow.

[1515] Epic.

[1516] Yeah.

[1517] An epic tale.

[1518] An epic tale that when it was pitched to me and I feel like Alejandra, did you find this one?

[1519] I found this one.

[1520] Good one.

[1521] First of all, congratulations.

[1522] Because it was like art heists.

[1523] And I was like, well, we kind of know how art heists go, right?

[1524] It's like three big paintings.

[1525] And Alejandro's like, just you wait.

[1526] It's almost like he was a shocklifter, not a heister.

[1527] Yes.

[1528] You know?

[1529] And it's also like he took it so he could see it all the time.

[1530] But it's like, friend, you could go to the museum and see it every day if you wanted to.

[1531] But for some reason, owning.

[1532] it, you know, was like the was part of it.

[1533] It's status.

[1534] It's excitement.

[1535] And it is kind of like, it's like saying this is supposed to be mine.

[1536] So I'm going to make it so it is mine.

[1537] I will appreciate this more than anyone else.

[1538] So I refuse to let anyone else see it.

[1539] I mean.

[1540] Or just mine.

[1541] It's like that.

[1542] Yeah.

[1543] Mine.

[1544] Mine.

[1545] Mine.

[1546] Mine.

[1547] Mine.

[1548] It's me on TikTok shop.

[1549] Mine.

[1550] Wow.

[1551] Great.

[1552] fucking job thank you amazing what were you doing were you art heisting while you were listening to this let us know if you are shoplifting while you're listening to this podcast george and i would both like you to know we joke a lot but like be careful don't get in trouble for something dumb not worth it not worth it it's way worse for you than it is for like whatever little plan you think you're yeah you're better off without it this is not convincing I'm not convincing myself as I'm trying to give this talk.

[1553] That's what's sad.

[1554] Should we each do one last, where was I?

[1555] And then we'll start this trend.

[1556] We can do a where was I when I was listening.

[1557] What are you even doing right now?

[1558] What are you even doing right now?

[1559] At the end of every episode.

[1560] I'll go first?

[1561] Yeah.

[1562] I guess when we were talking about like, what do you do when you listen to this podcast?

[1563] I said, maybe you're painting your nails.

[1564] And someone wrote in, I just listened to episode 423 and dropped my nail polish when Georgia said, we were painting our nails while listening.

[1565] And the title is, I spilled my nail polish, Georgia.

[1566] Love you, ladies.

[1567] No name.

[1568] Oh, sorry.

[1569] We'll call them nail polish Jones.

[1570] Here's the one I have.

[1571] Hi, team, forever listener and not first time writer.

[1572] You just asked, what the hell are we doing while listening?

[1573] You promise not to snitch, but I'm okay if you share.

[1574] I was assembling an IKEA bed with my infant napping in the next room.

[1575] I like playing with fire.

[1576] Kind regards, Krista.

[1577] Christa, boy mom.

[1578] This is, and Ikea.

[1579] Boy mom.

[1580] I don't know.

[1581] She's a boy mom.

[1582] But here's what I love.

[1583] This is such a reverse lens backwards.

[1584] Like when you guys listen to this podcast, you're picturing us talking to each other.

[1585] Yeah.

[1586] But now we get to picture you listening.

[1587] Yeah.

[1588] I love it.

[1589] I do too.

[1590] Please let us know what you're even doing right now.

[1591] I was going to try to fold this right into a Please Stay Sexy.

[1592] Oh, well, we should because this has been two fucking hours.

[1593] 222.

[1594] 222.

[1595] And stay sexy.

[1596] And don't get murdered.

[1597] Goodbye.

[1598] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1599] This has been an exactly right production.

[1600] Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[1601] Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton.

[1602] Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[1603] This episode was mixed by Liana Squalache.

[1604] researchers are Marin McClashen and Ali Elkin.

[1605] Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail .com.

[1606] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at My Fave Murder.

[1607] Goodbye.