Giant Bombcast Giant Bomb Game of the Year 2010: Day Six

[0] Thank you.

[1] It's January 1st, 2011, and you're listening to the final day of Giant Bomb's Game of the Year deliberations for 2010.

[2] I'm Ryan Davis.

[3] Joining me for this momentous occasion, Mr. Vinnie Caravella.

[4] 1 -1 -1 -1.

[5] Mr. Jeff Gersterman.

[6] I don't like the way 2011 sounds.

[7] And Mr. What's wrong with it?

[8] I don't know.

[9] It just sounds...

[10] 2011.

[11] It's like a bullshit year.

[12] It's been too long.

[13] 2010.

[14] It's out.

[15] It's done.

[16] Oh, it's too many syllables.

[17] Yeah.

[18] We'll get used to it.

[19] Yeah.

[20] 2012 will be all right.

[21] You'll be saying a lot of that.

[22] Yeah.

[23] During 2011.

[24] You'll be saying a lot of 2012.

[25] Yes.

[26] I mean, you're going to be saying a lot of 20 -whatever.

[27] Like, we have passed the 2000 -whatever.

[28] Yeah.

[29] I feel like we've had the vector.

[30] We've had the vector done.

[31] That was single digit.

[32] It's all 20s from here on.

[33] It's 20s.

[34] Welcome to 2020.

[35] I can't wait.

[36] Cue down style.

[37] How are you going to feel when we live in the 20s?

[38] Yeah, like how many people are going to be like, the Roaring Twenties are back, and they're going to sell flapper bullshit.

[39] Well, cable TVs.

[40] We've already got that package made, so Wolf Blitzer has a flapper hat.

[41] I'll do whatever Wolf Blitzer sells.

[42] Kill for me. I mean, technically we're in the tweens right now, so.

[43] Yeah, but nobody.

[44] I'm grimacing and making a bad face at Jeff's comments.

[45] I'm sorry to bring the dirty talk into such a momentous podcast.

[46] You hurl up those sauces.

[47] Save that horse crap for the regular podcast.

[48] So it all leads up to this moment right here, right now.

[49] Yeah.

[50] Final day of deliberations, Jeff.

[51] Right here.

[52] The biggest moment.

[53] Best game room release.

[54] One must stand.

[55] Many must.

[56] One must fall.

[57] Be pretty good.

[58] What are all of our categories for today?

[59] That's it.

[60] Just best game room release.

[61] Oh, fantastic.

[62] Yeah.

[63] And then that by default wins Game of the Year.

[64] It's a food fight.

[65] Best Game of the Year release.

[66] Best motion -controlled game.

[67] Worst Game of the Year.

[68] Most disappointing game.

[69] And best multi -platform game.

[70] And then Game of the Year 2010.

[71] Boom!

[72] Let's waste no time, gentlemen, and skip over the Game Room category.

[73] All right, so Food Fight has to be on this list.

[74] I think Jackal has to be on this list.

[75] Sunset Riders, we are going to disqualify because it's not out as of this recording.

[76] Basically, that, Echochrome 2, Rascals, these are games we will consider for next year's awards.

[77] Will we?

[78] Case West.

[79] Oh, yeah, Case West.

[80] All right.

[81] Yeah, there's a number of games that are coming out at the very last possible moment.

[82] Yeah, so we're going to have to...

[83] Consider those next year, which...

[84] We'll just forget them.

[85] Which means they're probably not going to win anything.

[86] But that's the way it goes.

[87] That's what happens when times happen.

[88] Come on.

[89] What do you think?

[90] And put your game out right then.

[91] All right.

[92] So the other games I've written down here, Amidar, Puyan, Jungler, and Pitfall 2.

[93] Puyan has no music, I understand.

[94] Puyan has no music.

[95] Neither does Amidar.

[96] So the imperfect emulation, I feel like, cuts both of those, which I think leaves it down to Jungler and Pitfall 2.

[97] And Batlantis.

[98] You want to make a case for Batlantis?

[99] I can't make a case for Batlantis.

[100] That's right, you can't make a case for Batlantis.

[101] All I can say is that is the game room game I own.

[102] Yeah.

[103] You bought a game room game?

[104] I know.

[105] Batlantis.

[106] I bought that.

[107] I bought River Raid.

[108] I bought Hero.

[109] Man. Those are both good games.

[110] I thought I knew you guys.

[111] I bought Lunar Lander.

[112] I bought Pitfall.

[113] I bought Lunar Lander.

[114] Yeah, that was all right.

[115] There are some of those Activision 2600 games I consider to be very vital.

[116] For me, they are very critical early video game experiences.

[117] Activision games on the 2600.

[118] I like those ones.

[119] I'm just trying to think if there's anything else.

[120] I think Pitfall 2 is a great choice.

[121] Because that's a really...

[122] The first Pitfall, I think, is an important game.

[123] But I think Pitfall 2 is crazy.

[124] Yeah, and this is the widest Pitfall 2 has probably ever been available.

[125] Was it a late game?

[126] A late system game?

[127] It was later.

[128] It was later on.

[129] Small production run.

[130] I'd never heard of it.

[131] Not necessarily a small production run.

[132] I mean, it was the sequel to Pitfall, after all.

[133] But they ended up doing two versions.

[134] This is the 2600 version.

[135] It was the Atari home computer, the 400 -800 version.

[136] Was way better.

[137] If I understand correctly, that game has checkpoints?

[138] Yep.

[139] Crazy.

[140] Yeah, it's an open world game.

[141] It's a side -scrolling open world game.

[142] What?

[143] Yeah.

[144] Yeah.

[145] Yeah.

[146] That sounds pretty good.

[147] Yeah.

[148] It's crazy.

[149] Food Fight's not bad.

[150] Food Fight has to be...

[151] Food Fight's incredible.

[152] Probably the best game.

[153] Gravatar?

[154] Gravatar's alright.

[155] That's not necessarily the best way to play it.

[156] I mean, that's kind of the thing.

[157] It's partially a matter of what games work best on a 360 controller.

[158] Kaboom.

[159] I know you love Kaboom, but without a paddle controller, it's no good.

[160] It's not a good game on Gamer.

[161] Warlords come out.

[162] It did.

[163] Again, it's a paddle game.

[164] And that's better than Kaboom in terms of...

[165] Games that you can play.

[166] Paddle games you can play without a paddle.

[167] Warlords is doable.

[168] But it's still not ideal.

[169] And River Raid 2 is awful.

[170] River Raid 2 is awful.

[171] Thwalker.

[172] Done.

[173] Super Cobra.

[174] Tempest.

[175] Super Cobra is a classic.

[176] Scramble is a classic.

[177] But, you know, ye are kung fu.

[178] That's right.

[179] They put out both versions of Warlords.

[180] What a bunch of assholes.

[181] They didn't put out arcade Warlords, did they?

[182] Game pack 6.

[183] Warlord money game.

[184] So Food Fight is your horse in this race.

[185] Yeah, I think Food Fight wins.

[186] You know, Yar Kung Fu, Yar's Revenge.

[187] They had already released Yar Kung Fu for Xbox Live Arcade, so that was a bummer.

[188] Once I learned you just sweep the Ninja Stars, that ruined that game for me. Yeah.

[189] Jungler I don't think is a very good game.

[190] I think that's the funny choice and some kind of spiritual, you know, there's a lot of heart in Jungler, but that's not a good game.

[191] Wasn't it the first release?

[192] It was in that first pack of 30 that they brought out right at the start, which Jungler was in there.

[193] Along with Road Fighter, which was all right.

[194] You guys were looking at some of these games, I think Food Fight, in a quick look.

[195] Did it crash?

[196] Did I hear you?

[197] Was that Food Fight?

[198] Not for us.

[199] The top score on the Food Fight leaderboards.

[200] It's in there at 20 million points.

[201] The next highest one is a few hundred thousand.

[202] So we watched that to see what happened.

[203] And at the end of his game, it actually reboots.

[204] So you see part of the...

[205] Part of the ROM check.

[206] And apparently that just rung him up at 20 million, which I think is cool.

[207] So you don't think there's something in the game that you can do to trigger that?

[208] You think it just did it in the emulation?

[209] I think it probably just did it.

[210] Looking at what he is doing at the time that it crashes, it doesn't seem like anything funky is going on.

[211] Crazy.

[212] He plays well, but he makes mistakes and dies and stuff.

[213] Got lucky.

[214] Something weird happened.

[215] Wow.

[216] So your top three game room games, Jeff.

[217] I'm going to say Jackal, Food Fight, and Pitfall 2.

[218] And you're going to give it to Food Fight.

[219] Food Fight's awesome.

[220] What a year.

[221] Congratulations to Atari.

[222] Congratulations to Charlie Chuck.

[223] Yes.

[224] And the four chefs, Zorba.

[225] Zorba, Jacques, Pierre, and Squiggy.

[226] The real Atari.

[227] Yeah.

[228] Not the current incarnation.

[229] Yeah, real Atari.

[230] Congratulations to real Atari.

[231] Congratulations to Nolan Bushnell.

[232] Yeah.

[233] And Chuck E. Cheese, you know what?

[234] Congratulations.

[235] Pete's Time Theater.

[236] Nice go.

[237] Yeah.

[238] This is all around.

[239] This is the hot tub and pipe.

[240] All those hot tubs and lines.

[241] Yes.

[242] Celebrated right here.

[243] Straight out of Sunnyvale.

[244] That's right.

[245] Represent.

[246] Yeah.

[247] Next category, Jeff.

[248] Best motion controlled game.

[249] We have three games down here.

[250] We have Dance Central.

[251] We have Sports Champions.

[252] And we have Wii Party.

[253] That sounds like really strong contenders for each system.

[254] Did it just happen that each platform was represented?

[255] I think that just happened.

[256] We didn't sit down and go like, what's the Wii game for this list?

[257] Those were thrown out and we just happened.

[258] That's what stuck.

[259] I think Wii Party is really interesting.

[260] The motion stuff in that game is pretty interesting.

[261] They use the remotes in crazy ways.

[262] Sports Champions, I think, is a great showpiece.

[263] A good Wii Sports -like game that shows off the capabilities of the move controllers.

[264] I think Dance Central, as we've said in past podcasts, that's the one that makes the Kinect make sense.

[265] I think it's the one that kind of...

[266] makes motion controllers maybe make sense for a wider audience than...

[267] Or lack thereof.

[268] That's a weird thing to say, I guess, because it's not like the Wii has a narrow audience.

[269] But, you know, it's the sort of thing that indicates that this can be taken in new and different directions.

[270] Yeah, I think it's the one that...

[271] I think these are all three strong candidates.

[272] but I think Dance Central is the one that shows what a future for motion -controlled games might contain.

[273] Both Wii Party and Sports Champions do stuff that we've seen done.

[274] It's just that Wii Party couches it in an interesting package, and Sports Champions just brings a greater level of fidelity to the things that we've seen before.

[275] I agree.

[276] I don't have much experience with any of this.

[277] You have no opinion.

[278] I have an opinion, but it's not an informed opinion.

[279] It does not include the word best.

[280] Well, I think for my money, the fidelity, and again, I'm only secondhand on Sports Champion, looked pretty good.

[281] And that to me is a good sell for like, okay, I can see playing a game with some of this stuff.

[282] And the Dan Central stuff, I feel like...

[283] For me, again, secondhand, I danced a little bit, and it was my fault, but it didn't seem to bring to the forefront what's going on in the background, so I couldn't tell if it was what's going on behind the scenes in Dance Central, how much accuracy there is in that technology.

[284] Can we still play a high -fidelity game with Kinect still remains a question for me. Is that technology...

[285] Can it do the things that...

[286] Because you can see the one -to -one stuff on Sports Champion.

[287] You can see that happening.

[288] Will the Kinect be able to do that?

[289] It still remains a question in my mind.

[290] And that's outside of the realm.

[291] I think Dance Central accomplishes what it needs to accomplish.

[292] That's kind of a little bit removed from Dance Central and these games.

[293] It's more a Kinect question.

[294] You're looking for something that is more revealing about the hardware.

[295] Yeah, that's like...

[296] Because every time – Like, the reason Dance Central succeeds, let's be honest, is because it is able to hide some of the stuff about Kinect that a lot of other games for Kinect can't or don't.

[297] Right.

[298] It's well designed.

[299] They do a good job of making it seem magical.

[300] Yeah.

[301] Like, you don't necessarily look at it and say, like, dude, that's – the Kinect is – mapping me perfectly.

[302] I'm doing whatever that guy's doing.

[303] It's like, you know, you're hitting the right spots and you're going.

[304] So for me, it's more of Sports Central showcases like, okay.

[305] It's not a game.

[306] Sports Central.

[307] Sports Central is the combination of both of those things.

[308] Pan -pending.

[309] Pan -pending.

[310] Sports Champion shows me that the move can do things that may require more precision.

[311] And for me, being an old, poor dancer, that's kind of what I'm looking for.

[312] Yeah.

[313] Any kind of.

[314] I think the technology of the move is more suited to the kinds of games that cater to my interests.

[315] Yeah.

[316] Probably, I don't want to speak for everybody in this room, but possibly the interests of most of you.

[317] But it's really tough to tell.

[318] Yeah, but I don't think Sports Champions necessarily exploits much of that technology other than it being a really precise version of Wii Sports.

[319] Yeah, I don't think on either, and even the Wii has shown that it has tried, and we've hit a wall, I think, in some limitation on some of the motion capturing with the Wii.

[320] But for the move and for the connect, I don't think we've hit saturation where I'm willing to say there will never be a high fidelity game for those things.

[321] I feel like we haven't hit that yet.

[322] So I'm going to leave it up to you guys to decide what's the better game and keep my cranky pants out of this conversation.

[323] I think it's dance central.

[324] What's more fun?

[325] I think because Sports Champions is...

[326] is very good, but it is a proof of concept.

[327] It's a proof of concept.

[328] It is.

[329] We've seen before.

[330] It's super iterative.

[331] Not to say that Dance Central doesn't iterate on some of the just dance stuff, but it goes a lot further.

[332] Right.

[333] Well, Sports Jam, it seems like you need to have a sports minigame collection.

[334] Right.

[335] Check that off the list.

[336] Dance Central kind of wins by virtue of being the one Kinect game that works, right?

[337] I mean, in a lot of ways.

[338] Well, if we were doing best Kinect game, it would be one game on the list.

[339] Totally, totally.

[340] Adventure's not bad, sport's not bad, but yes.

[341] The promise of controller -free gaming is more than just a nice -sounding marketing.

[342] point.

[343] There's actually something to it.

[344] Actually making that concept work is to be commended.

[345] This is not really material to the decision here, but Brad, to your point about what kinds of games that we like, I don't know that anyone knows what the kinds of games that are going to take the best advantage of these emergent platforms.

[346] It's kind of like we were...

[347] And I feel like if you go too far down that road, you end up looking at the shooters and stuff that Sony's been showing that will have move support.

[348] That stuff seems cool, but at the same time, you're going to end up with that mouse and keyboard versus gamepad thing where you're like, this is how I like to play these games.

[349] Forget it.

[350] Yeah, they should definitely try and not stuff that or force it.

[351] Build the game around the hardware.

[352] Every time that we see unique game hardware, some sort of weird interface, be it the Wii, the DS, the iPad, whatever.

[353] It takes some time.

[354] It's like, okay, we stuffed a game that you already know about onto here, and it kind of works.

[355] But you get the idea.

[356] It's like, yeah, but this isn't really what I want for this.

[357] It takes someone saying, here is what we have, and here is how we can take best advantage of that.

[358] And it takes some time.

[359] Yeah, totally.

[360] It's the old Nintendo paradox of Nintendo being the only one to ever fully exploit all the weird.

[361] control schemes and weird innovations that they roll out.

[362] I mean, you really have to put a lot of work into thinking of a completely new design for these games, and you can't just be like, well, we can do driving games with this, right?

[363] And it's like, well, maybe not.

[364] Not to the level that you're used to.

[365] I mean, you could kind of do it.

[366] Right, but why not use a controller?

[367] It might be more fun.

[368] For the record, I want to see Move games built around the Move technology, too.

[369] I don't want to play Killzone 3 with that thing, but I'm also of the opinion that more precision is always better than less.

[370] Well, people will figure out what that thing is really, really good at.

[371] And if it's something that winds up recognizing the shape of your body in different forms or whatever, maybe games will start doing that.

[372] Just go into different poses, and that's the game.

[373] But they'll figure it out eventually.

[374] Pose and pose.

[375] So congratulations to Dance Central.

[376] You're the best motion control game of 2010.

[377] How does it feel?

[378] Pretty good, huh?

[379] Do a dance.

[380] Yeah, dance it out.

[381] That brings us to worst game of the year.

[382] Fuck yeah.

[383] Does this need to take place before or after the most disappointing game?

[384] I think they're different enough.

[385] They are fairly different, I guess.

[386] It's a pretty different category.

[387] So here's what I've got.

[388] I've got four games for this that we jotted down when trying to think about bad games.

[389] Power Gig, Rise of the Sixth String.

[390] Motion Sports.

[391] Tony Hawk Shred.

[392] And APB.

[393] Anyone got any other entries for that list?

[394] Those are pretty bad games.

[395] I feel like there are probably a bunch of weird shovelware games that we just did not expose ourselves to.

[396] I feel like this is the kind of hidden caveat there is worst game of the year.

[397] That raised itself to a certain level that's not worthy of coverage.

[398] I'm sure there's plenty of shovelware bullshit out there.

[399] It's not Barbie, dress them up for the Wii.

[400] We're not going to do that to ourselves.

[401] So, know that going.

[402] I don't know.

[403] Brad's Kids was pretty bad.

[404] Yeah.

[405] I don't even know if that's a game.

[406] It is, in fact, a game.

[407] Well, I think it also has to kind of be targeted at us.

[408] Babysitting Mama, how was that as a video game?

[409] You know what was really terrible?

[410] It was Iron Man 2.

[411] Was it?

[412] That was very bad.

[413] This might be like the worst game you might accidentally buy.

[414] Iron Man 2 looked pretty bad.

[415] You know, because you'd never buy it.

[416] Was Iron Man 2 like...

[417] One star, oh God, pluck out my eyes.

[418] Some of the games we've got on this list here.

[419] I think APB was a gigantic failure, and if this was biggest failure, then I think APB would probably win for all of the turmoil that ended up surrounding that game.

[420] But when I look at the other games on this list, I don't think APB fits.

[421] I think there are some ambitious elements about that game.

[422] Is it successful at all on any level?

[423] It looks okay.

[424] The character customization is pretty good.

[425] All right.

[426] But it's not elements of success.

[427] It's relativity of its badness in a lot of cases.

[428] I don't think the driving is very good.

[429] I don't think the shooting is very good.

[430] But it's not actively on fire, broken.

[431] and unambitious garbage like, say, Power Gig Rise of the Sixth Ring.

[432] It's a hard category to just not sound really mean about, but I totally agree.

[433] That, for me, is the one where I don't know what happened.

[434] I don't know what was behind the scenes in that game and the development process, but I felt like what came in that box was a lie.

[435] You got this guitar.

[436] Oh, the Power Gig thing?

[437] Yeah.

[438] You just don't use it.

[439] Yeah, you don't ever use it like an actual guitar.

[440] In the game.

[441] Maybe it works fine as a guitar you want to buy.

[442] play around with but that's the worst part is the failure of like the game design the software design right they built the guitar the hard part and even if you take the guitar out of the equation because there is a software only version of this game oh you can just buy it and play it with like guitar hero guitars it'll work with regular guitars you don't want to do that that might be worse because it's terrible no it's way better because it becomes super easy and familiar at that point well it becomes better because actually playing that type of game on guitar strings is incredibly uncomfortable And the frets are a lot further apart than you're used to.

[443] So they reintroduced this learning curve of getting used to the hardware that is not fun or compelling or interesting in any way.

[444] They did not bother to license the 3D note highway, the familiar 3D note highway that you see in all rhythm games of that nature.

[445] So it has rock revolution syndrome of notes just dropping down.

[446] So it's just this pure vertical path with no real segments for measures.

[447] But really for me, design points aside, it is the branding of that as something that...

[448] musicians, people who like guitars.

[449] Oh yeah, it's like we've got Dave Matthews, we've got Eric Clapton, and then all these people that wouldn't rock it real.

[450] The way they position that game is...

[451] It's five frets of bar chords, right?

[452] Basically, you're never hitting actual...

[453] It's five frets of power chords.

[454] Yeah, you're not even going past the third string, so it's like that...

[455] No, that's not fair.

[456] You can't...

[457] A bad selection of music in the game, I feel.

[458] Three player.

[459] It is a three -player game.

[460] They did not bother to model base so it wouldn't fit to the standard of other games of its type.

[461] I think that is easily the worst game of the year.

[462] Don't forget about Air Drums, Invisible Drums.

[463] Invisible Drums.

[464] They ended up hiding those.

[465] They only sold those on their website, so those almost don't exist.

[466] No, I think those almost don't exist.

[467] I think they might only have, if you have a set of those, hang on to them.

[468] They may become collector's items.

[469] Some collector someday is going to come after you.

[470] I don't think they've made huge quantities of those.

[471] The guitar bundle is the main thing.

[472] For that style of game, even if Rock Band 3 hadn't come out with all of its crazy pro mode shit, which takes the same concept and executes on it properly, realistically, in a way that could actually be useful for you to learn these parts or whatever, even if that didn't happen, this is...

[473] Terrible.

[474] It's a victim, I think, of going up against those games.

[475] If this had been, we probably would have never heard of it if this were the case, but if it had been something that hit the shelves of Walmart that we kind of saw walking through a store or something like that, you'd maybe glance out at the corner of your eye and be like, oh, what?

[476] Yeah, all right.

[477] And then keep moving.

[478] You're right.

[479] But they positioned it as kind of like a, this is for real musicians.

[480] This is the next step of the genre.

[481] And it was like, no. No, like you're kind of, no, this is.

[482] Regardless of positioning, regardless of, you know, what.

[483] other games in the genre did this year, just compared to the standards of the genre from last year or the year before that.

[484] This is a bad game.

[485] This is the worst, I think.

[486] I have to imagine games similar to this have been on store shelves for kids.

[487] Put the CD in your computer and try and do it with a guitar.

[488] But it wasn't something that was being directly marketed.

[489] They were at E3 all over the place.

[490] They directly said, not to get too far into intent because it almost doesn't matter, but they actually directly said, we don't intend this to be educational, which is good for them because it's not.

[491] It's a bad game, bad music.

[492] It makes Rock Revolution look competent in some ways, which that's...

[493] Wow.

[494] But I think our list is Power Gig, Motion Sports, and Tony Hawk Shred.

[495] Yeah.

[496] Iron Man 2 noted, but I don't think that's...

[497] So Motion Sports is failing to deliver on the dream.

[498] Just watch the video.

[499] Fuck that game.

[500] Oh, I lived it.

[501] The rest of the game's in that package, by the way.

[502] Not worth your time, in case you were wondering, because there is more than just the horse thing.

[503] But I think that does belong on the list.

[504] And Tony Hawk Shred, I think, you know, we've already said so much about Ride and Shred.

[505] It's another case of crazy hardware that doesn't actually enhance the experience and, in fact, attracts from it in several major ways.

[506] They can kind of stand there and say, it's for kids, all they want.

[507] But that's just...

[508] stealing money from less discerning players.

[509] Kids like good games.

[510] I was a kid once.

[511] I love good games.

[512] I play a lot of bad games too, but you do that now.

[513] In the case of Shred, they had an extra year to iterate on that crazy hardware and they still didn't make the game better.

[514] Instead they said, what if there was snow?

[515] Should we actually fix any of the stuff?

[516] Well, no. If there was just snow there, that would be fine.

[517] It would look different.

[518] It would look different.

[519] You know, I just want to say for me personally, people who worked on these games.

[520] I feel for the developers of all these games.

[521] Yeah, totally.

[522] I want to say the people who were tasked with actually constructing and developing these.

[523] I don't feel like we're being malicious.

[524] I want to be clear.

[525] Because we are shitting on the games.

[526] And the games deserve shitting on.

[527] And it's probably, if I had to guess, some people on that team might agree that, this was not my finest product I've put out.

[528] Well, I think it's something that I talked to Jeff Green about during our time with Bejeweled.

[529] Yeah.

[530] Not to say that I thought that Bejeweled was a shitty game or anything.

[531] You think it's one of the worst games of the year?

[532] No, not at all.

[533] Should I add it to the list?

[534] No, that's not what I'm saying.

[535] I do anti -Semite.

[536] What I'm saying is that, because I hate Jules.

[537] Yes.

[538] Wow.

[539] Well, because you hate Jeff Green's work.

[540] Wow.

[541] Wow.

[542] Wow.

[543] Wow.

[544] It's like, what did you say?

[545] It's like Nazis.

[546] Yeah.

[547] Even bad games take a lot of skilled people a long time and a lot of effort to make.

[548] Yeah.

[549] Which makes it almost more...

[550] You can bust your ass and be really good at your job and still contribute to what ends up not being a good product.

[551] Like that...

[552] It happens all the time.

[553] A lot of pieces.

[554] Happens all the time.

[555] There's a huge number of pieces to it.

[556] And a lot of that stuff seems to come together in the last 10%.

[557] You go like, well, it's almost a game here.

[558] It's almost a game.

[559] All right, now we have a game, and now we can start getting ready to ship it.

[560] Or sometimes I have to imagine you're just tasked with the impossible.

[561] Like, I don't have enough time.

[562] I don't have enough budget.

[563] Hey, you've got it.

[564] So here's all the corners we're going to cut.

[565] I feel proud that we were able to cut these corners and get this far, but, you know.

[566] You need to make a Tony Hawk game that uses the skateboard.

[567] What?

[568] In, like, two months.

[569] Well, how many people do I get?

[570] You need to make a game.

[571] Oh.

[572] For the record, that is not the way that game was developed.

[573] I'm just saying, but, like, you know, I can see them maybe not getting the resources that they were like, well, great.

[574] And they're like, here's your budget.

[575] Like, what?

[576] Like, what do you mean?

[577] Yeah, make it within this.

[578] We're not going to sell many of these.

[579] I think like Ryan said, I think a minimum to get a game on a disc and run on a console is still a lot of work.

[580] Yeah.

[581] So I want to acknowledge the hard work that people put into these shitty games.

[582] We're not shitty on you.

[583] Some of these games.

[584] That said, I feel like there was a lot of misguided stuff happening with Power Gigs specifically.

[585] Oh, sure.

[586] With people that did not come from game development that said, ah, we make all these guitars.

[587] We can do this.

[588] I'm like, no. Maybe poor decisions, but probably still a lot of work.

[589] Oh, sure.

[590] I mean, you know, you go to the top of the organizations, and it's like, well, that's...

[591] Right.

[592] You fucked that up.

[593] You made the wrong decision.

[594] Power gig?

[595] Power gig.

[596] Congratulations.

[597] Now we're on to most disappointing game, which the most disappointing part about this category is how long this list is.

[598] This might be, with the exception of our next category, this might be the longest list of games that we rattled off in our preliminary discussions.

[599] Let me know if you've got any additions to this list.

[600] Here's the list as it stands now.

[601] Fable 3, Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2, Dead Rising 2, Gran Turismo 5, Disney Epic Mickey, Crackdown 2, Mafia 2, Fallout New Vegas.

[602] Dude, what happened this year?

[603] A lot of games came out that were unfinished.

[604] A lot of games came out that...

[605] I think they took a lot of bad turns.

[606] Business realities affected some of these games.

[607] I also think there are a lot of short development cycles.

[608] A lot of sequels on here to really amazing games.

[609] Yeah, that's the most shocking part.

[610] A lot of major franchises got worse.

[611] I think that's what leads to them being disappointing.

[612] That's the letter of the law of this category.

[613] Though I'm going to say right off, I feel like we should cut Fallout New Vegas for as disappointing as its technical issues were.

[614] A lot of its strong points really shine through.

[615] To the point where, I mean, if this game was going to be on this list, I feel like I would not have given it four stars.

[616] I was disappointed by a lot of it, but there's still a lot of really good things going on there.

[617] It seemed like the disappointment stemmed from...

[618] The technical issues.

[619] For what it's worth, that has been so comprehensively patched at this point that it's probably fine.

[620] Oh, that's right.

[621] That came out.

[622] That big -ass patch is out.

[623] At the same time, like, I'd...

[624] You can't give it a pass for that.

[625] I've already finished it.

[626] It's worth noting.

[627] It's a little late.

[628] You had the experience.

[629] Yeah.

[630] But I do think we can cut that from the list.

[631] Yeah.

[632] Yeah, definitely.

[633] Jeff, how do you feel about C &C 4?

[634] Ooh.

[635] Ooh.

[636] In conversation.

[637] That was a disappointing game.

[638] Yeah.

[639] For sure, yeah.

[640] It had some interesting things.

[641] They tried some stuff.

[642] They tried some stuff and it didn't work out.

[643] They did.

[644] They did.

[645] They did.

[646] They strayed from the formula and experimented with some weird things.

[647] And then when those weird things seemed like crazy, they instead said, well, let's try and cram these weird things into a box and sell it at retail instead.

[648] Yeah.

[649] Lost Planet 2?

[650] I guess the first Lost Planet wasn't amazing, but...

[651] But it wasn't bad.

[652] Lost Planet was beloved by some.

[653] It looked amazing for the time.

[654] At the same time, I feel like a lot of those people love Lost Planet 2.

[655] At the time, the first Lost Planet was the best looking Xbox 360 game.

[656] It was up there.

[657] It was up there for sure.

[658] Like the scale of the monsters and just a lot of the lighting and particle effects.

[659] They did some really impressive stuff.

[660] At the same time, I didn't...

[661] I can't say I had...

[662] exceedingly high expectations going into Lost Planet 2.

[663] Yeah, I guess not.

[664] But there are some wacky design choices in that.

[665] For sure.

[666] Just straight up bizarre.

[667] And those are disappointing choices because they do get in the way of your enjoyment of the rest of the game.

[668] There are elements of that game that are...

[669] Don't the dudes in your squad have tags over their head?

[670] Yeah, like bot tags.

[671] They're fake multiplayer guys.

[672] Fake gamer tags.

[673] Huh?

[674] Yeah.

[675] Alpha Protocol.

[676] Hmm.

[677] That's a bummer.

[678] I was really looking for Adalpha Protocol.

[679] Yeah.

[680] I'm going to write that down.

[681] I think of the Obsidian games of 2010, that was the one I felt missed.

[682] Even as I was playing it, there was just like, man, I really want this game to be better.

[683] And maybe if I put two more points into this, it's going to fix it.

[684] Remember how excited we all were at E3?

[685] Yeah.

[686] When they started talking about vodka.

[687] Yeah, it's like you see that stuff and you're just like, all right, Mass Effect, but Spies, totally, I'm right there.

[688] Even if it does not out Mass Effect, Mass Effect, a game that approaches that experience but takes it into this realm with this type of story is incredibly appealing.

[689] I got, yeah.

[690] Man, man. Death spank?

[691] I mean, the guys who did the Penny Arcade games, which I thought were underappreciated, and Ron Gilbert, ostensibly one of the funniest voices in games.

[692] There's a real pedigree coming out of those that I do feel...

[693] That I felt like that game did not...

[694] That game is disappointing.

[695] I agree with you.

[696] I don't know that it's going to end up being one of the three most, though.

[697] I don't think it is.

[698] Heavy Rain?

[699] No. Not really.

[700] Disappointing accents, but I feel like we've already said that.

[701] Kenny Rand is still kind of amazing.

[702] Yeah.

[703] It is in some ways.

[704] But the fact that they dropped the ball so badly at the end is a mar on that.

[705] Vinny?

[706] At the end?

[707] I was disappointed.

[708] Were you disappointed?

[709] I was disappointed.

[710] But how much did you expect?

[711] I had a real wait -and -see attitude with that game.

[712] They had such crazy ambitions.

[713] I guess the disappointment is because the first...

[714] sections of that game are great.

[715] The story, even, and the setting and the tone, they do some really good stuff with it.

[716] It's true.

[717] It does.

[718] As the story eventually unfurls and starts hitting its closing moments, it's like, what?

[719] The game does sort of sabotage itself as it goes.

[720] Yeah, it absolutely does.

[721] But not ruinously.

[722] I don't think it absolutely...

[723] Defeats itself.

[724] There are aspects of it that should be a lot better.

[725] I don't think it's one of the three most.

[726] It doesn't Fable 3 itself.

[727] But it was fucking disappointing.

[728] So I think Fable 3 has to be on this list.

[729] Yes.

[730] Man. I think Crackdown 2 is a strong contender for this list.

[731] Really?

[732] I don't know.

[733] Knowing what we knew going into it, I mean, they threw it together kind of quickly by a brand new developer.

[734] I didn't really get a sense that that was going to be the case.

[735] Because...

[736] The stuff that they showed off ahead of time and the things that they were talking about with multiplayer, those things seemed potentially very exciting.

[737] And playing that game in short stints at events and stuff like that, you're like, yeah.

[738] I mean, it's kind of more Crackdown 2, but with the stuff, if they're going to go further in this direction and do this, and then the structure of that game is just the most basic.

[739] A to B to C to D. Yeah, you know what?

[740] It was like A to A. Yeah, you're right.

[741] That's true, that's true.

[742] That game was incredibly disappointing.

[743] That was a game that when we got it and started playing it, I was like, all right, I'm totally going to sit down and play Crackdown.

[744] Oh, God damn it.

[745] But I do remember...

[746] And I feel like the first Crackdown, I actually think, was kind of disappointing.

[747] in some of the same ways, but this seemed like they were learning those lessons and were going to push out of it and like, oh, no, you totally didn't.

[748] Or you did but weren't able to do something about it.

[749] I do remember coming out of at least two events and seeing it.

[750] And be like, that looks cool.

[751] And then just talking, I think, with you guys.

[752] Like, yeah.

[753] I mean, there's got to be more than just destroying those beacons.

[754] But, like, yeah.

[755] Like, once they put that other stuff in, it's going to be awesome.

[756] I remember me and you, after that one event, went into this thing very conditionally saying, all right, as long as the primary activity is not solely shutting down those beacons, this game is going to be awesome.

[757] I remember, like, the second time seeing it being like, oh, they're showing the same beacon mission from the first time I saw it.

[758] Because there's nothing else to show.

[759] I want to say this is the...

[760] Again, doesn't make the list, but I need to air my grievances.

[761] Now is the time.

[762] I was disappointed by Raving Rabbids Travel and Time because I thought it was going to be a follow -up to Rabbids Go Home.

[763] But I feel like that's just your own situation.

[764] That was my fault.

[765] That's your fault.

[766] But I want to say that was really disappointing.

[767] Went and ran to the GameStop the day it came out and bought a copy and popped it in.

[768] I'm like, wait.

[769] Minigames?

[770] This isn't...

[771] Those minigames are actually not as minigames -ish.

[772] But I really like fucking Rabbids.

[773] Rabbids Go Home, I thought, was a delightful game last year.

[774] Yeah, I thought that's what they were doing.

[775] What did you think Battlefield Bad Company 2?

[776] Just competent?

[777] Yeah, competent.

[778] I was a little disappointed with the single player given the quality of the previous game, but not to the extent that we're talking about these other games.

[779] I love that multiplayer.

[780] Yeah, the multiplayer is very good.

[781] And they've done good things with it over the previous game.

[782] No, that doesn't fit.

[783] So Fable 3 fits.

[784] I think that Star Wars Force Unleashed 2 needs to be on this list.

[785] You do?

[786] I kind of agree.

[787] I think that that first game was one of those proof of concept.

[788] If you build on this, this could be awesome.

[789] Here's the basic idea.

[790] Pretty cool.

[791] If you guys do this, learning from what worked and what didn't this first time, you could really nail something special with this follow -up.

[792] Then you were pursing your lips at me. Do you disagree with this assessment?

[793] I guess my personal expectations for the second one were managed in a way that I was like, yeah, I'm not really surprised about what this is doing.

[794] And I actually liked the first one quite a bit.

[795] But did you not play that game and look at three or four things and be like, all right, if you guys fix this, this, and this, This game could be amazing.

[796] Kind of, but I guess in the run -up to the release of it, there was kind of like blackout on it.

[797] It definitely tempered my expectations when they didn't send us a copy.

[798] Yeah, by the time it came out, I kind of felt like I knew we were in for something a little weird here.

[799] Because the first game, the run -up to it, they were showing it off.

[800] They were like, check out all this technology.

[801] This is awesome.

[802] And it was like, what happened to that?

[803] Where's all that?

[804] You guys should be being like, this is our second version of this.

[805] It's amazing.

[806] It was just like blackout.

[807] And then that game is decided without a doubt worse than the first one.

[808] It is worse, but honestly the worst thing you can say about it is that it's mediocre.

[809] It's not aggressively awful.

[810] It's just not a great action game.

[811] But it's an okay action game.

[812] It's a shame because I think the things that made the first one great...

[813] or not great, but made the first one enjoyable, are missing from this one.

[814] Like the lack of locations, the stories kind of subpar.

[815] This could have been nominated for worst ending.

[816] Yeah, there's a battle at the end.

[817] Yeah, not a good boss fight.

[818] There's a decided reduction in production values.

[819] It's just weird.

[820] It feels cobbled together.

[821] Yeah, it doesn't feel as lavishly produced as the first one.

[822] The first one had some pretty great art assets.

[823] The level design was great.

[824] CG and cut scenes.

[825] Where they position it with the characters and what they do to the universe.

[826] It was a little more epic in scope, too.

[827] You're kind of all over the place, and this felt so contained.

[828] The story is very short and unfulfilling.

[829] You just feel like you're just kind of hopping from square one to square two to square three, and then you fight Darth Vader.

[830] Other than that boss fight, though, it plays pretty much fine.

[831] You're just not doing anything.

[832] You're fighting the same three dudes over and over.

[833] Yeah, you fight the same enemies.

[834] Yeah, disappointing in that regard, but I feel like I was kind of ready to be let down.

[835] I mean, I haven't touched that game, so as the two guys who have played it, I defer.

[836] But if it's a choice between that...

[837] Do we think Crackdown 2 makes this list?

[838] I think it might have to, actually.

[839] How do you guys feel?

[840] Maybe you guys feel the way I do about Gran Turismo with the way I feel about Star Wars.

[841] Do you feel like your expectations for what that game needed to be?

[842] uh, were higher than what happened or were you just blank slate?

[843] Like, I'm not sure what this is going to be.

[844] I think I kind of blank slate.

[845] Not sure what it's going to be, you know, like prologue, uh, left a really good impression with where they were kind of taking things.

[846] Um, and yeah, I think there are a lot of disappointing aspects to it, but I guess I'm not enough.

[847] I'm not so invested in that series to begin with that.

[848] that I knew what to expect or had any real expectations.

[849] So it wasn't really disappointing.

[850] It was more just kind of this incredulous like, wow, really?

[851] Like that sort of reaction.

[852] You're going to make that choice?

[853] Yeah.

[854] So I don't think it makes the list.

[855] I have a theory that has been proved out again by Gran Turismo 5, which is when you take that long to develop a game, you are neither going to make the best nor the worst game.

[856] You're going to make an extremely middle -of -the -road game.

[857] It's going to have some moments where you're like, oh, that's kind of neat.

[858] And you're like, well, they could have done this and this better.

[859] And you spend that much time, you're never going to make the perfect game.

[860] But you're also never going to make a completely awful game.

[861] Yeah, this is by no means a terrible game.

[862] Oh, dude, Dakitano.

[863] But given the...

[864] Hey, I can't leave without my buddy Superfire.

[865] I mean, given the reputation of the Gran Turismo name and the expectation of the level of quality that goes along with that.

[866] Yeah.

[867] Like, this may not be...

[868] a one -star game but if you expected a five -star game this is that's kind of a bummer right well i think for me i think is uh but i don't know what like what fans of Gran Turismo really expect.

[869] I don't know if maybe this completely met those expectations.

[870] I think they expected Forza.

[871] I think given the way that the driving genre has changed since the last time they released a full game, to ship with that level of AI and that sort of stuff, I think at some point they're no longer meeting the standard for the genre.

[872] I think that's the thing for me. This game should have come out five years ago.

[873] It would have been like...

[874] where it needed to be in the evolution of the series.

[875] If there were no premium cars in that game, and they shipped with all their standard cars, but also shipped at the same time that Prologue did, people would have been blown away.

[876] The damage stuff, too, just seems weird.

[877] Everything.

[878] 85 % of that game seems weird.

[879] All you can really take away from it is you can sit there and go, well, the simulation of driving is second to none.

[880] Right.

[881] And even in that case, you kind of have to have been so invested in this style of game to recognize that.

[882] For the average person, the nuance doesn't necessarily come through.

[883] I'm going to cross it off.

[884] I don't think it makes the list.

[885] I'm going to cross it off.

[886] I think it's hard to...

[887] For me, at least, I don't want to mix expectation with hype and stuff like that.

[888] So for me, I could be really excited about something.

[889] That doesn't mean if it comes out and it's just okay that it should be disappointing.

[890] I think there needs to be some kind of track record that's like, this is what we did in the past.

[891] And I do feel like this is super iterative of the Gran Turismo series.

[892] It's just not in line where that genre has gone.

[893] So in the line of Gran Turismo games, it's totally the next one, but they missed where everybody else has been improving on that between.

[894] And I feel like that's...

[895] It's weird to expect.

[896] You'd think they would have caught up, but I don't know.

[897] Coming out of Japan is weird.

[898] There are aspects of that game that are shoddy by any standard.

[899] Are you guys familiar with the undercarriage issue on some of the standard cars?

[900] Yeah.

[901] Where they got the texture map from.

[902] Right.

[903] Like, in six years, you guys couldn't design or photograph real textures and you scanned Matchbox cars.

[904] That's clever.

[905] Like, what?

[906] In a product called Gran Turismo?

[907] Yeah.

[908] What?

[909] It is a little weird.

[910] I guess I'm just not personally invested in, like, I don't want to waste the slot on that.

[911] There are other games I'd rather make an example of.

[912] Like, if Forza did that, and Forza 4, if it were that.

[913] severely disappointed.

[914] I don't know, really?

[915] I mean, this category is all about expectation versus reality.

[916] And after six years of development, to get a game with problems like this has.

[917] But I think at the same time, that actually works in its favor in this case, because once you get to that six years of development, you're like, there's no way this game can be, this game is going to be so weird and crazy.

[918] The expectations flip back around on itself, Duke Nukem style, and you're like, well, this has to be garbage, right?

[919] Or else they would have put it out by now.

[920] And then you go play Duke Nukem forever and go, oh, wow, it's actually okay.

[921] It's crazy that they would ship a game that feels unfinished in some ways.

[922] You're right.

[923] After that amount of time.

[924] You're right.

[925] That is bizarre.

[926] It is crazy.

[927] But after that amount of time, they always do.

[928] They never don't.

[929] And also, I actually might be, you know...

[930] It's the opposite.

[931] The game came out.

[932] I didn't think it was going to come out, so I can't be disappointed.

[933] They actually shipped a product.

[934] If you spend a really long time putting out a movie, usually the expectation is not like, oh, well, they spent a really long time making that movie, so it's going to be really good.

[935] That's not how that kind of stuff works.

[936] If it's good, it comes out hot.

[937] What else do we have for potential nominees for our top three?

[938] Dead Rising 2?

[939] I don't know.

[940] Dead Rising 2 is better than Dead Rising.

[941] Yeah.

[942] Yeah, I agree.

[943] I was disappointed that they didn't go further with some of the stuff that they kind of almost started to do.

[944] But I don't think it's one of the three.

[945] I think I feel the same way kind of about...

[946] that as I do with Gran Turismo.

[947] It's got the stuff that the last game had in it, and it's a shame they didn't say, well, we can break those systems.

[948] But that's Dead Rising.

[949] But that's Dead Rising.

[950] These are the things that kind of define Dead Rising.

[951] It improves on some of those flaws.

[952] Some of them, but some of that stuff, I don't know.

[953] I want to slip a post -it.

[954] I'm no game designer, but just be like...

[955] Wait.

[956] Oh, sure.

[957] Sure, there are definitely...

[958] No, I left that position.

[959] That was yesterday.

[960] I want my money back.

[961] Common chest or whatever.

[962] That's it.

[963] Let me drop dudes off in a tunnel or something.

[964] Dead Rising 3.

[965] You're already getting your expectations up for Dead Rising 3.

[966] It's going to be awesome!

[967] Dude, I would absolutely play a Dead Rising 3.

[968] I would be interested in seeing a Dead Rising 3.

[969] And also, I'm excited.

[970] Under the pretense that they fix all that stuff.

[971] I'm excited to play the next bit of DLC.

[972] Yeah, I'm totally good at Case West.

[973] See, I need some more distance from it.

[974] I'm not interested in Case West, really, at all.

[975] And I do like Frank West, and I love taking photos.

[976] Pokemon Snap 2.

[977] Think about it.

[978] I've covered Wars, you know.

[979] All right.

[980] Mafia 2.

[981] Yeah, I was thinking about that.

[982] I was not a big enough Mafia 1 fan for this to really affect me one way or the other.

[983] Plus, every time we saw it, it did not look like a good game.

[984] Yeah, I would not say I was disappointed because, yes, you all had bad expectations.

[985] This looks super generic.

[986] And it's like, what?

[987] And they keep showing.

[988] I'm like, yeah, that's still...

[989] Nope.

[990] It was disappointing, but not necessarily personally so.

[991] At no point was I like, aw.

[992] It was more like, ah, yeah, that's as expected.

[993] Some people love it.

[994] Does anybody love 2, though?

[995] Yeah, some people love Mafia 2.

[996] Many people love the first one.

[997] I have an idol.

[998] I don't know a single person who's told me they love Mafia 2.

[999] Eric Pope.

[1000] Really?

[1001] Yeah.

[1002] Well, he doesn't count.

[1003] He just loves that playboy.

[1004] He ain't people.

[1005] It was just a weird game.

[1006] True enough.

[1007] It was a strange game.

[1008] He does live in Boston, so.

[1009] Yeah.

[1010] So they have their whole organized crime thing going on out there anyway.

[1011] I don't think Mafia 2 makes the list.

[1012] Probably not.

[1013] Epic Mickey.

[1014] Yes.

[1015] Epic Mickey makes that list.

[1016] Yeah.

[1017] I don't know.

[1018] Does it?

[1019] You've got Warren Spector.

[1020] Granted, he has been out of the game for a long time.

[1021] Still, a man of considerable vision.

[1022] Guy made a game in a decade.

[1023] A man of influence and of vision, ostensibly.

[1024] You've got Disney, which Disney is all about high -polish entertainment, right?

[1025] Not necessarily in video games.

[1026] No, but there is a track record for Mickey Mouse -focused video games that have a high level of polish and are incredibly entertaining.

[1027] That is a very old legacy.

[1028] And in between those games, they didn't make...

[1029] Not every Mickey Mouse game is gangbusters great.

[1030] No, no, no. But there is a track record.

[1031] We just remember, like, the four that are really good.

[1032] And, I mean, you know, he shows up in the fucking Kingdom Hearts games, and those aren't for us, or we don't, you know...

[1033] It does not jive with us, but...

[1034] Like, the care that they put into that presentation is pretty high.

[1035] Okay.

[1036] Protecting their brand.

[1037] Exactly.

[1038] Well, yeah.

[1039] I mean, Square Enix is putting all that care in there.

[1040] But, yeah.

[1041] I see that, yes.

[1042] And the end product.

[1043] And, you know, basically, like, limitless access to Disney IP.

[1044] Al Michaels was traded to another company for Oswald the Lucky Rabbit.

[1045] Like one of the main characters in this game.

[1046] A real man had to have a different job because of that fake rabbit.

[1047] Alright?

[1048] Think about that.

[1049] I bet Al Michaels is pissed.

[1050] Isn't Al Michaels still on ESPN though?

[1051] Isn't he on Sunday Night Football?

[1052] I don't know.

[1053] I think he's still on the ABC network of families.

[1054] Or family of networks.

[1055] I'll look this up.

[1056] Maybe he's disappointed.

[1057] Anyway, that's not key to this.

[1058] They dug deep into the back catalog.

[1059] Yes, and this was a big push game from Disney Interactive, which is trying very hard to position itself as a real game publisher.

[1060] I mean, this year it put out Split Second, Epic Mickey, Tron.

[1061] How about Tron?

[1062] I don't think I would call Tron disappointing.

[1063] I guess it is a movie game.

[1064] Yeah, yeah.

[1065] That tempers the expectations.

[1066] Toronto's a movie game, and it is, in some ways, better than many movie games.

[1067] For a game that I looked at and looked at all the strategy stuff behind it of like, we're going to fit it all together with the movie, and all I heard was Enter the Matrix, I'd say it is better than I expected.

[1068] A pleasant surprise.

[1069] Having seen the movie and knowing the story of the game, that stuff seems very well executed.

[1070] Yeah.

[1071] But does that make it more disappointing that it's not a more fun game to play?

[1072] No. It's disappointing that the combat is not more exciting and that the traversal stuff is not more varied.

[1073] But it doesn't...

[1074] I wasn't pulling hair out going like, oh, if only they could have done that at any point playing that game.

[1075] You know what kind of flooded my boat?

[1076] I don't know.

[1077] Took the wind out of my sails.

[1078] I was shank.

[1079] I was kind of sad to see the final product be...

[1080] Yeah, that was definitely...

[1081] I don't know.

[1082] Do you expect much more than what you got?

[1083] Well, that was a game, the first time we saw it, I was like, man, this could be incredible.

[1084] Then there was that time we saw it at that EA thing and played that co -op level, and I was like, this doesn't seem good at all.

[1085] It's one of those...

[1086] That game suffered from the typical, like, the game event syndrome, where games that you see in 10, 15 minute bursts, where you're like...

[1087] Mercs 2, great example of that.

[1088] You see this for 10 minutes and you're like, fucking that's awesome.

[1089] Everything's blown up.

[1090] I'm stabbing these dudes and everything looks bad as shit.

[1091] This is great.

[1092] I love it.

[1093] Art style is awesome.

[1094] In that...

[1095] Tight time frame.

[1096] It's great.

[1097] It's the vertical slice.

[1098] Exactly.

[1099] But then it's like, okay, you actually sit down with it and are spending hours with it.

[1100] You're like, yeah, this doesn't quite hold up.

[1101] Not too much variety.

[1102] It's just a problem of repetition, right?

[1103] Okay, so you're right.

[1104] This is not material, but I like to say this anyways.

[1105] In February 2006, a number of minor assets, including the rights to Oswald, were acquired by the Walt Disney Company from NBCUniversal as part of a deal that sent sportscaster Isle Michaels from Disney's ABC and ESPN to NBC Sports.

[1106] Okay.

[1107] So that's crazy.

[1108] That is crazy.

[1109] That is crazy.

[1110] Regardless of anything.

[1111] And, yeah, like, Epic Mickey, like, the name alone, they were positioning that to be a big deal, and it was...

[1112] Yeah, I guess, but every time I saw that game, it looked like it would be, that it could be kind of cool, and it looked like they were making an N64 platformer.

[1113] No, the game itself, whenever I was like, oh, okay, you're just only showing a little bit of it now.

[1114] Okay, but it sounds awesome.

[1115] Yeah.

[1116] But you're right.

[1117] Every time that I did see it, I was never jaw -dropped by the actual content.

[1118] But you have this really expensive booth that you've built around it, and you have all these Disney animators sitting up on the stage sketching stuff, and Warren Spector's talking constantly.

[1119] I don't think all of that can be laid at the game's feet.

[1120] There are forces outside of that.

[1121] For the purposes of this category.

[1122] I blame Al Michaels.

[1123] Well, what are we left with here?

[1124] Because we said Fable 3 is going to stay.

[1125] Dead Rising we took off, right?

[1126] Crackdown.

[1127] Crackdown 2.

[1128] We've got Force Unleashed 2, Epic Mickey, and Alpha Protocol left on the list.

[1129] That's a tough third slot.

[1130] Alpha Protocol was a game that showed really well and looked like it would be...

[1131] that it could be really cool and wasn't.

[1132] And in a way that like...

[1133] there actually is a really cool game in there somewhere.

[1134] They just failed to draw it out by surrounding the game with some technical issues and just some stuff with the skill.

[1135] Yeah, some sloppy stealth stuff, some sloppy shooting.

[1136] Some design issues with the bosses, right?

[1137] Yeah.

[1138] Yeah, some of the boss fights.

[1139] Register that.

[1140] At the same time, after I finished it, I did start playing it a second time.

[1141] I own a copy.

[1142] I just haven't popped it in yet.

[1143] I think you should play it.

[1144] Yeah.

[1145] I think, you know, if you find yourself with nothing else left to play.

[1146] I don't know.

[1147] If only to see the Nolan North character.

[1148] He's well done.

[1149] There's some great characters.

[1150] That game is really disappointing.

[1151] The more excited you get, the more pitfalls you see.

[1152] The fact that their animation is just janky.

[1153] Yeah, the fact that there is great stuff in there that you have to dig past bad, bad things, I think that increases a game's disappointment.

[1154] Yeah, for sure.

[1155] I'd feel all right with putting that on this list.

[1156] So with Epic Mickey then, do you feel like from beginning to end and actually playing that game, they could have turned it around with some key decisions or just a flawed product all the way through?

[1157] It sounds like the camera is an issue.

[1158] There are technical issues.

[1159] There's just a lot of not...

[1160] I feel like a lot of the systems just aren't fully realized in that game.

[1161] And yeah, the art style feels very drab.

[1162] Because some of these other ones, it sounds like Alpha Protocol, if they had just massaged just a little bit or thought a little bit differently about this, it really could have been something.

[1163] Fable 3, I just feel like they made three or four.

[1164] Key design choices that really...

[1165] We haven't started talking about 53 yet.

[1166] Well, I'm just saying, in terms of narrowing down the nominees for this, really a couple of things that held this back from being a great game.

[1167] Yeah, you're absolutely right about that.

[1168] And The Force Unleashed, I have to say, I think from start to finish, they needed to rethink the entire design doc for that game.

[1169] From the first one?

[1170] Or the design of the second one.

[1171] On the second one.

[1172] However that process goes, when they lay out what this game is going to be, what you're going to do in it, I feel like that was flawed from the start because they needed to take the epic story from the first one, make this one just as much, span that universe just as much, refine some of the mechanics, and they would have been fine instead.

[1173] It seems like they...

[1174] I don't know.

[1175] I totally agree with you.

[1176] I just don't think the end product is bad enough to warrant being on this list.

[1177] In the face of these other...

[1178] Oh, so you're saying cut it.

[1179] Greater disappointments, yeah.

[1180] Yeah, I'm agreeing.

[1181] I think cut it as well.

[1182] I don't think it makes it onto the list.

[1183] All right.

[1184] So we're down to Epic Mickey or Alpha Protocol.

[1185] I didn't play either one, so you guys can...

[1186] I think Alpha Protocol is a great choice.

[1187] I think Alpha Protocol.

[1188] Because I think at its best, Epic Mickey would have been a colorful, fun platformer that gooses Disney fans specifically.

[1189] Alpha Protocol.

[1190] Mass Effect in the world of spies.

[1191] That is extremely exciting.

[1192] The notion of what that game could have been and came up short being.

[1193] So that's it then.

[1194] We've got Fable 3, Crackdown 2, and Alpha Protocol.

[1195] So what wins?

[1196] Fable 3.

[1197] I think in disappointment, I think Fable 3...

[1198] Such a potentially great game marred by disappointments.

[1199] And coming off of a great game in Fable 2.

[1200] Right.

[1201] And you're right.

[1202] It's that much worse that there are just like three or four specific decisions that they made with the design of that game that just destroy the experience.

[1203] Because everything else about it is great.

[1204] You just had to give me more Fable 2.

[1205] For the first 10 -15 hours, you kind of think that's what you're getting.

[1206] The issues with the interface detract from the experience.

[1207] Even the fact that you're still fighting bandits and hobbs.

[1208] There's things where it's like, you guys didn't really make Fable 3.

[1209] You kind of just like...

[1210] You kind of did what Jeff just said in game development.

[1211] He's kind of like, Fable 3.

[1212] I didn't mind the interface stuff so much that menu stuff didn't bother me as much as the weapon upgrading stuff was just poorly implemented.

[1213] What were you thinking?

[1214] Giving you these things that you have to use to power up late in the game.

[1215] Regardless of the room, let's talk about the map.

[1216] The goddamn map.

[1217] The map is terrible.

[1218] Terrible.

[1219] The goddamn map.

[1220] Or lack of a minimap or compass.

[1221] Why even make a map that does not map to the real map?

[1222] You just basically look at a diorama.

[1223] Yeah, it's roughly analogous to the actual terrain that you're traversing.

[1224] There are no reference points on it anywhere that actually allow you to navigate.

[1225] But also you don't have a compass or anything when you're playing, so it's not like, oh, that's north of here.

[1226] That's what the breadcrumb trail is for that doesn't actually work right.

[1227] But you can't set waypoints.

[1228] Yeah, you can't set waypoints on that thing.

[1229] it will go in the opposite direction.

[1230] Sometimes it disappears.

[1231] But man, one time it disappeared for me until I rebooted the game.

[1232] Alright, so Fable 3 is your most disappointing game for 2010, which brings us to best multi -platform game.

[1233] This is actually the longest list of any list that we compiled.

[1234] Which I think goes to show...

[1235] The good games come out on all platforms.

[1236] Everyone can play the good games.

[1237] Everyone can play the good games.

[1238] Before we start doing this one, did we make any decisions about extending the nominees list beyond three?

[1239] Not for this category.

[1240] I think for Game of the Year 2010, we will strive to pick five.

[1241] Okay.

[1242] Okay.

[1243] I'm sure we'll have plenty of fights getting it down to three.

[1244] And we will not number those games.

[1245] We will pick the winner and four other games.

[1246] Right, right, right.

[1247] For game of the year.

[1248] So this one we're looking to pick three.

[1249] Okay.

[1250] And a winner.

[1251] Okay.

[1252] Hot dogs.

[1253] Armor hot dogs.

[1254] I'm okay with hot dogs.

[1255] Number two.

[1256] All right.

[1257] Hot dog buns with spaghetti in them.

[1258] Remember, these aren't numbered.

[1259] I don't need that many cards.

[1260] I'm starving.

[1261] All right.

[1262] Best multi -platform game.

[1263] Here is our list.

[1264] Mass Effect 2, Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, Red Dead Redemption, Need for Speed Hopper Suit, Rock Band 3, Call of Duty Black Ops, Darksiders, Bayonetta, Pac -Man Championship Edition DX, Vanquish, Super Meat Boy.

[1265] I think we can cut Vanquish.

[1266] Yes.

[1267] We can also cut Bayonetta because the PS3 version was trash.

[1268] It's multi -platforminess.

[1269] It's not most multi -platform.

[1270] It's just the best game that happened to appear.

[1271] I feel like that's not fair because then it doesn't get into the best.

[1272] I think that's totally fair.

[1273] We've got reasons to eliminate.

[1274] I don't think it's one of the three best multi -platform games of the year, even if all of the things were equal.

[1275] That could be kind of a dicey argument, but it's not important.

[1276] Well, for the large percentage of the audience, they could only play it on the PS3.

[1277] Yeah, they're both.

[1278] They had a poor experience.

[1279] That ends up on the most disappointing list, almost.

[1280] I think you can cut Darksiders.

[1281] Yeah.

[1282] Yep.

[1283] I think you can cut Rock Band 3.

[1284] Yep.

[1285] Yeah.

[1286] I will say right now, I think this list is Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, and Red Dead.

[1287] Yep.

[1288] Yep.

[1289] Yep.

[1290] Okay, so what about Pac -Man Championship Edition DX?

[1291] I think it just doesn't stack up.

[1292] It just can't hang.

[1293] I think it's brilliant, and I think we have celebrated Pac -Man, CE, DX through these rewards whenever appropriate.

[1294] Not enough to it for me. You sit down, you get every achievement in one sitting.

[1295] It's got kind of a tail.

[1296] But the score chasing, the design of the leaderboards are not conducive to chasing scores.

[1297] It could have been more elegant with that.

[1298] It is up against some stiff competition.

[1299] Those three games are what he said.

[1300] But the baddest motherfucker of them all is called Mass Effect 2.

[1301] Alright, we're done.

[1302] Man, that was a lot faster than I thought.

[1303] Mass Effect 2 is really good.

[1304] Mass Effect 2 is really good.

[1305] Chew on it.

[1306] I am.

[1307] I'm chewing on it.

[1308] Let me state, I think Mass Effect 2 is my game of the year.

[1309] So I think it's going to win my multi -platform game of the year.

[1310] Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, fantastic.

[1311] Red Dead Redemption, I also believe fantastic.

[1312] So if you guys want to start talking about Mass Effect 2, know that or why that should not be.

[1313] Know that I think those other games are great.

[1314] And I spent a lot of time in those worlds.

[1315] I just want to say before we start saying really mean things about these other great games.

[1316] No, like your opinion is shit.

[1317] You kind of can't go wrong with these other games.

[1318] But if you guys want to talk, let's talk.

[1319] If you guys want to come to the table, let's play some cards.

[1320] I've got a deck of York cards.

[1321] I don't like these awards.

[1322] I know.

[1323] It's so contentious.

[1324] Getting that granular is really hard.

[1325] Splitting hairs over games that everybody should play.

[1326] I don't know that I think that everybody should play Red Dead.

[1327] Don't even say that.

[1328] That game put me off so hard.

[1329] Why?

[1330] I want to know why.

[1331] I need to know why.

[1332] I didn't like anything about any of the controls in that game at all.

[1333] From riding a horse to any kind of...

[1334] gun anything from how you get from place to place the fast travel system how do you everything every single thing at the beginning of that game put me off so hard that I literally took it out and said no thank you I don't know how you go from loving GTA 4 to loathing this game because they're the same game in a different setting except I love GTA 4 and nothing about Red Dead interested me at all I don't get that it's baffling Yeah, it's completely bad.

[1335] I mean, the controls are better.

[1336] The combat is vastly superior in Red Dead to GTA.

[1337] I could see if you don't, if you're just not.

[1338] I mean, it's a completely different setting.

[1339] So I can see if I...

[1340] You know, and that's the thing.

[1341] Maybe that's just not for me. Maybe the Western setting is just not for me. I wouldn't have thought that because there are so few Western -themed games out there that it'd be like, oh, that could be really cool.

[1342] And everything I've heard about the story sounds incredible.

[1343] The ending of this game sounds amazing.

[1344] And we gave it best ending, right?

[1345] I think that's well deserved.

[1346] But the physical act of playing this game put me off so hard right off the bat that under no circumstances do I intend to go back to it.

[1347] It's really bizarre because I feel like there is no game that is as analogous to GTA 4 as Red Dead Redemption.

[1348] Maybe it's because I got all that out of my system in GTA 4 and love GTA 4.

[1349] Or maybe it's like, it could be the reason that we love it so much is that it paints such a great Western world.

[1350] It does such a good job of just, it's the fucking West.

[1351] It made me care about the West.

[1352] Yeah, it could be the reason why you hate it.

[1353] actively just don't like being in that world, then you will never like being in that world.

[1354] I didn't like any of the early game characters and early stuff they did to set up the world.

[1355] It was like, okay, I'm gonna go find the treasure map stuff and I'm running around this rock.

[1356] I can see that it takes three or four hours to really get going, but I don't think you made it that far.

[1357] That's about how long I played it.

[1358] You told me what mission you left off on, and that is not...

[1359] But I probably played it for about three or four hours.

[1360] I did not stay critical path that whole time, so I was kind of running around exploring and trying to do different stuff.

[1361] for that time, but that's probably about the amount of time I spent with it.

[1362] It's a little bit of a slow burn at the top.

[1363] But so is Brotherhood.

[1364] Apparently the fucking slowest because...

[1365] Brotherhood's a pretty slow burn too.

[1366] I think if there's anything critical to be said about Brotherhood, other than the fact that it is fairly iterative in some ways on last year's Assassin's Creed 2.

[1367] It's a pretty narrow shoot that it puts you down for the first two, maybe three hours.

[1368] But it does eventually open up and become...

[1369] You mean the in -animous stuff before you get the assassins?

[1370] The in -animous stuff, the out -of -animous stuff.

[1371] I feel like the out -of -animous stuff at the beginning of the game drags.

[1372] Once I was in, I felt okay about stuff.

[1373] The section in the animus before that, they spend a lot of time setting up premise.

[1374] And that's a couple hours.

[1375] That's several hours where you have no open world.

[1376] Where you don't have...

[1377] That world opens up very slowly anyway.

[1378] I felt like I was bumping up against invisible walls for the majority of that.

[1379] But I mean, it's like literally there are no alternate tasks.

[1380] There's like all you have to do.

[1381] All there is is critical path.

[1382] So that game has that issue as well to a certain extent.

[1383] But Mass Effect, it doesn't really...

[1384] It's just good.

[1385] Mass Effect is just good.

[1386] It's got some issues.

[1387] I know it's like robot baby at the end of the game is bunk.

[1388] He's a full -grown man Terminator.

[1389] Robot Terminator thing at the end is not a great way to end that game.

[1390] If only they had done that.

[1391] The kind of contrived structural stuff that you talked about in previous podcasts about the way the final mission carries out.

[1392] They probably could have handled that better.

[1393] But I think I empathize with how the experience happened for you, Brad.

[1394] But since I didn't have that...

[1395] It was just a lot of – it was just this thrilling final act.

[1396] It was like the surf.

[1397] Everything was hitting and paying off.

[1398] And I'm like, this is so empowering.

[1399] All the time that I spent early on grinding out these – well, not even grinding out because the missions were fun.

[1400] But the commitment that I made and the time that I spent early on is paying off in this kick -ass ending.

[1401] And so that was the experience that I had.

[1402] If you didn't have that experience, I feel bad for you.

[1403] Well, at the time, it was, oh, my God, this is a grueling situation.

[1404] This is dire.

[1405] People are dying around me. Yeah.

[1406] It was only until – I went back like months later and read a guide about like, I wonder why I didn't get everybody out and get that achievement and realized I had kind of been bilked out of it.

[1407] That it really soured my taste for that endgame.

[1408] That there are like mechanics going on under the hood that you are not privy to that kind of screw you over.

[1409] But like, I don't know, would it be better if it were like random?

[1410] I feel like they needed something that was like, you know.

[1411] They need to find some way to dictate that people die.

[1412] Like maybe I guess if you just didn't do the loyalty mission.

[1413] I had done every loyalty mission.

[1414] I bought every upgrade I could find.

[1415] I don't know enough about the Under the Hood stuff.

[1416] I ended up digging up the Under the Hood stuff not too long after I had finished the game.

[1417] I don't think they had figured out that part of it with the IFF thing.

[1418] Because I did everything else.

[1419] I did every mission.

[1420] I got every upgrade.

[1421] When you get to pick who does what, I naturally made all of the most appropriate choices.

[1422] I kind of liked when I was talking to you guys after playing it.

[1423] What happened to Kelly?

[1424] Did she turn into goo?

[1425] Let me put it this way.

[1426] There's no more Kelly Chambers.

[1427] Man, your Normandy sounds as bad as your Albion.

[1428] Dude, tell me about it.

[1429] But when I played it through, I didn't have that issue either of anybody dying the first time I played through, so I felt kind of big.

[1430] Because they set up those moments, they have those shots of the guys where you feel like something bad's going to happen here, and then, oh, oh!

[1431] I'm okay, I'm okay.

[1432] Is the door going to open?

[1433] If there weren't at least one more game to come where your save would still be relevant, then it would be more of a heavy rain situation of like, well, this is how my version of the story played out.

[1434] did I accept it.

[1435] But you want to go into that next game with a proper save file.

[1436] I feel like it's unfair to kind of look at that stuff, not knowing what Mass Effect 3 is really going to take and what it's going to be.

[1437] You can kind of guess at it, but that's a little...

[1438] I don't think you can hold that against Mass Effect 2.

[1439] I mean, they also penalize you for just putting poor choices, right?

[1440] I think part of the mechanic is if you pick...

[1441] uh jacob to do the like uh security staffing yeah like that's a poor choice yeah and i ended up going back and kind of redoing stuff and and re -choosing you know putting the wrong people in the positions just to watch them die like i eventually went through and played it again and had everyone die and it was fucking still super awesome yeah so like i did the same thing like i played through with my evil character and like i just want everybody to die and the way they die is actually pretty it's kind of shocking like they just get zapped in the head as the door is closing like well fuck just like we made it Pow!

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] Oh, no. Guess who died for me?

[1444] It was Kelly and Morden.

[1445] Oh.

[1446] How terrible is that?

[1447] But, like, that's kind of the fact that you had that emotional attachment.

[1448] Yeah, that speaks to the strength of the characterization.

[1449] I mean, it's a testament of the quality of the game that I'm going back, like, eight hours before the end of the game where my last save file was and replaying that stuff.

[1450] And also, I think just the, for me...

[1451] I know there are people out there who disagree with this, but the refinements they made to the inventory stuff and some of the streamlining on that stuff I think was essential in making that a – faster moving game.

[1452] I mean, it's more of a shooter.

[1453] Let's not beat around the bush.

[1454] It's not an RPG.

[1455] If you want more of that RPG stuff, I think there's some middle steps they could have taken to make the inventory from the first game better without going so far in the direction they did.

[1456] It didn't bother me. And I might have preferred it if there had been more loot in that game.

[1457] The fact that there are no stats on the weapons and stuff like that.

[1458] They do have, like, percentages, but it's not just raw stats.

[1459] It's mostly read the description and see, like, okay, this weapon upgrades this other weapon.

[1460] So then, like, looking at your list, figure out which one is the best one.

[1461] Yeah, they could have handled that a lot better.

[1462] I just made my Lady Shepard look cool.

[1463] Whatever.

[1464] Male Dutch model Shepard is the only.

[1465] Boo.

[1466] Boring Shepard.

[1467] You know why I ended up wearing a Scouter the whole time because of whatever.

[1468] Yeah.

[1469] Whatever that gave the.

[1470] Like visor.

[1471] One thing over your eye.

[1472] I hated the way they handled helmets in that game.

[1473] There's something I had to wear through all of these kind of scenes.

[1474] Mass Effect 3.

[1475] If anybody's listening.

[1476] No helmets.

[1477] Helmet toggle.

[1478] Helmet.

[1479] Just.

[1480] Yeah.

[1481] Just cosmetic.

[1482] Yeah.

[1483] Don't make.

[1484] Cosmetic armor only.

[1485] Don't.

[1486] Don't render the helmet if you're in a non -combat scene.

[1487] I mean, somebody somewhere had to be like...

[1488] How did you guys not figure that out?

[1489] I'm telling you again.

[1490] When he drinks in the bars, he's wearing his helmet.

[1491] That is a shippable bug.

[1492] Or make the helmets open.

[1493] Yeah.

[1494] Make the helmets something that a visor can raise up so he can be in cut scenes and not look crazy.

[1495] Or do like you do for everything else in Mass Effect.

[1496] And they're very clever about this.

[1497] Do the pan in the camera a little bit away.

[1498] Make it sound like a helmet's coming off.

[1499] And they just come back and there's your face.

[1500] Ready to sit at a bar and drink.

[1501] Instead of pouring drinks into your face with a helmet.

[1502] Is that what it would do?

[1503] Yeah, he just keeps the helmet on.

[1504] It ended up getting a point where I had to choose less than ideal armor just to not have that situation.

[1505] Yeah, I never wore a helmet because I'm like, the first cutscene where I'm wearing a helmet, I'm like, oh, well, that's insane.

[1506] I wore my Dragon Age blood armor the entire time.

[1507] That's ridiculous.

[1508] That thing is now soiled in drinks.

[1509] Just pour it all over the outside of your arm.

[1510] I've got a drinking problem.

[1511] That was sick -looking armor, though.

[1512] Yeah, I like that.

[1513] Space Knight.

[1514] That said, as soon as I get a chunk of time, I'm going to go play a new game of Mass Effect 2.

[1515] I'm very glad just to be reminded that there were things that I did actually not care for about Mass Effect 2.

[1516] It's been so long since...

[1517] That was a very, very early release in 2010.

[1518] It's been a long time.

[1519] I played that around the time it came out.

[1520] I haven't touched it since.

[1521] Some of it is a little foggy in my memory.

[1522] You played some of that stuff.

[1523] I played some of that stuff more recently.

[1524] It's been a while.

[1525] These details are resubmitting it as an actual game in my mind.

[1526] Not just an idea.

[1527] I'm like, oh, that's right.

[1528] It did do dumb stuff.

[1529] It certainly did do dumb stuff.

[1530] I don't know.

[1531] That game...

[1532] For me, it resonated.

[1533] You go see Rex.

[1534] Yeah.

[1535] He runs that planet.

[1536] Yeah.

[1537] Shepard.

[1538] Or maybe he doesn't, I guess.

[1539] Shepard.

[1540] Right.

[1541] Shepard.

[1542] Part of the problem I have with Mass Effect 2 is the same problem I had with Mass Effect 1 and every other space game ever made, which is that they cannot make space feel big.

[1543] Like every planet that you go to, and this is just a limitation of the man hours they put into making the game.

[1544] Like you go to Ilium, which is supposedly a city of tens of millions or whatever, living in mile -high skyscrapers, and your entire experience on the planet is limited to one terrace and a couple of offices.

[1545] It's the same way any game that has streets in it, there's never real traffic.

[1546] But this is a cross between technical limitation and just finding ways to make that work.

[1547] His point is really valid.

[1548] The problem that goes back to KOTOR.

[1549] Both KOTOR games had the exact same problem.

[1550] It's like five dudes.

[1551] Every planet you go to, and all six NPCs on each planet are always standing in the same place.

[1552] If they can marry the Assassin's Creed tech with the streets of a crowded city, street of Mass Effect 2, it would be amazing.

[1553] But the thing is, they do Ah City in Assassin's Creed.

[1554] When you're talking about a space game, you're talking about...

[1555] You're talking about dozens and dozens of systems, and you have to have a unique location for each of those.

[1556] And, you know, the production.

[1557] Well, I just mean the hustle of, like, just people walking around.

[1558] Oh, sure, sure, sure.

[1559] But, like, I feel like the people who are there, most of them have kind of, like...

[1560] unique dialogue or something like that as you walk by.

[1561] Sure, sure.

[1562] Because they're mostly all hand -modeled and animated, they're not using some kind of paper doll character generator to populate the world with.

[1563] You don't end up with that fallout close -up of man's face.

[1564] Zoom in.

[1565] I mean, you realistically can't expect them to quadruple the size of their art staff to address this problem, but it does.

[1566] But man, it would be great if they didn't.

[1567] Yeah, I mean, it would be the best game of the decade.

[1568] I don't think you can expect that.

[1569] I will green light that.

[1570] Take my word on it.

[1571] But how many more copies do you sell if you do that?

[1572] It's bad business.

[1573] I'll buy two.

[1574] Okay.

[1575] But at the same time, it sticks out in the context of the setting.

[1576] Yeah.

[1577] Yeah.

[1578] That's fair.

[1579] I agree.

[1580] Didn't you like that Renegade Paragon stuff?

[1581] That stuff was pretty cool.

[1582] That was pretty cool.

[1583] I like that.

[1584] And the way they did it, I think, was...

[1585] Left trigger always.

[1586] I thought the way they did it was kind of fun, too, where...

[1587] I hated when my hand wasn't on the controller.

[1588] At the time, you miss it.

[1589] Because it's like split -second timing.

[1590] Yeah, I just love that most of the time the Renegade stuff was like...

[1591] just interrupt dude talking by shooting him.

[1592] Like, if you just don't want to listen.

[1593] Renegade is always kick dude out of window.

[1594] Every single time.

[1595] It's some variation on that.

[1596] Like, stab the dude in the back with that, like, electric wrench or whatever.

[1597] Like, he's talking and saying something to you.

[1598] Oh, no!

[1599] And for as much as, you know, I mean, for as much as it is not the best third -person shooter in the world, I still had fun with the gameplay.

[1600] Yeah, it's a good shooter.

[1601] It's not a bad shooter.

[1602] It did not detract from the experience that much that it wasn't some Gears of War quality cover -based thing.

[1603] I enjoyed most of the combat in that game.

[1604] There were definitely some segments where it's like, I think it's probably the collector's ship or something, where it's like, this is dragging all of it.

[1605] This is taking some time.

[1606] And also, you know, that game...

[1607] talking to its flaws.

[1608] Some people had really hard times with other classes, like if you weren't playing a soldier or something like that.

[1609] I heard of Vanguard on Insane.

[1610] Some stuff could be really weird.

[1611] I played an Infiltrator on Insane.

[1612] To each credit, it was a different playing experience entirely, but some stuff did not seem suited to those moments.

[1613] So I think some of the class stuff, I saw a lot of complaints about the Vanguard stuff.

[1614] Getting up close was kind of weird.

[1615] But they had the elusive man. He was pretty cool.

[1616] Yeah, dude.

[1617] He was a pretty cool guy.

[1618] Miranda was all right.

[1619] Morton was...

[1620] I thought Miranda was better than all.

[1621] I think that game had the most and the most interesting characters this year.

[1622] It had the highest volume as well as just the most interesting characters.

[1623] I definitely wanted to spend more time with some of those later game characters like Legion and...

[1624] The lizard -y dude.

[1625] I can't remember that.

[1626] Thane.

[1627] Thane, yeah.

[1628] I wish Legion had popped up way earlier and I could have gone on more missions with him because he seemed...

[1629] He was really interesting.

[1630] Yeah, like the personified geth.

[1631] Yeah.

[1632] The individualized geth was an interesting twist for that.

[1633] Even if it is just...

[1634] Seven of nine.

[1635] They're seven of nine.

[1636] Yeah.

[1637] And I'm ready for Mass Effect 3.

[1638] Buckle up.

[1639] Yeah, hopefully that won't be...

[1640] I am ready for Mass Effect 3.

[1641] I'm also ready for Assassin's Creed 3.

[1642] And I also would jump right into a Red Dead 2.

[1643] I don't think they need that.

[1644] I don't think they need another Red Dead.

[1645] I think Red Dead is done.

[1646] No, yeah, I'm just saying in terms of the top three games on this list.

[1647] Yeah, yeah.

[1648] I don't think I need another Red Dead.

[1649] They said what they needed to say with it.

[1650] They told a really amazing story in the setting.

[1651] Yeah, and I do love that game, but that game also has a huge amount of travel time.

[1652] Yeah, I loved the traveling.

[1653] That game is, you know, I hated the, like...

[1654] You could never just kind of cruise control the travel.

[1655] You always kind of had to tap, tap, tap.

[1656] All right, stop tapping, tap, tap, tap, tap.

[1657] I don't know.

[1658] It started to feel analogous to the spurring of the horse to me. And I bet that shit's boring after a while.

[1659] Well, what I mean is I kind of did it subconsciously after a while.

[1660] I didn't really think about it.

[1661] It kept me from ever...

[1662] zoning out.

[1663] Which, you know, whatever.

[1664] That's not necessarily...

[1665] I just didn't like that when you went off the road.

[1666] You don't want to zone out in the Old West.

[1667] The stamina would drain so much more.

[1668] Because, like, staying on the road was just kind of...

[1669] Yeah, it was the fastest way to go.

[1670] Yeah, it was the fastest way.

[1671] And, you know, that game, in some ways, is GTA on a horse.

[1672] Yeah.

[1673] I liked the openness of it more, though.

[1674] Part of what I don't like about GTA is how...

[1675] constrained you are in getting from place to place like there is so much traffic and you can piss off the cops so easily sure and you can never you can never drive through a building or addresses a lot of that stuff by just letting you take taxis Yeah, I guess so.

[1676] You can camp.

[1677] Yeah, you can fast travel in this.

[1678] But if you want to just run places, you can just go off the path as the crow flies.

[1679] I think, to Brad's point, it's more just like the landscape.

[1680] There's a lot to appreciate there.

[1681] But that game still, like John Marston, while I think a great avatar for the player, he falls into the same trap as every single rock star protagonist of...

[1682] Like, basically serving as the agent for whatever insane fucking whims of the NPCs that he encounters.

[1683] He's just a people pleaser.

[1684] Yeah, like, it's always kind of weird of, like, you establish these guys.

[1685] Like, Nico had this and, you know, John Marston.

[1686] certainly has this of like establishing here's a character with a perspective and a point of view and a reason for doing what he's doing but then he goes off and does stuff that that is wildly against that character type they do disconnect some of the mission objectives from the motivations of the character just in service of giving you more stuff to do yeah like there were definitely three or four characters where i was just like why are you helping this guy again like what are you getting out of this yeah john marston john marston as they had established him wouldn't have done those things Probably.

[1687] So some of that stuff stuck out at me. Yeah.

[1688] And, yeah, and the travel time was kind of a bummer.

[1689] Or could be.

[1690] There's also just like all the crazy random shit that you would see happening out in the desert while you were running around.

[1691] That stuff was amazing.

[1692] It did have a little of the horses inside of the ground.

[1693] Come on, we can't.

[1694] I will bring up a litany of mass effect technical problems if you want to get into that.

[1695] And I honestly, and again, I can only go from my own experience, I never had any of the super...

[1696] I did one time have a...

[1697] a carriage that was freaking out.

[1698] Yeah.

[1699] I had one or two brief instances, but nothing game -breaking.

[1700] Yeah, like maybe a rider without a horse here and there.

[1701] Yeah, I had phantom horse.

[1702] But I never saw, like, the cougar with person -body model stuff.

[1703] And it was never stuff that would, like, prevent you from turning in a mission or something like that.

[1704] It did have a little of the open -world stuff, which, you know...

[1705] That open -world jank?

[1706] Well, just, like, to kind of, like, you know...

[1707] Hey, Mr. Side of the Road person, the seventh time you see it, it's just like, all right, this person's going to pull me off my horse and try to steal my horse.

[1708] Or like, that guy stole my wagon.

[1709] Which is actually really funny in Undead.

[1710] What the hell is the name of that dude who gets robbed every single time he'd run through the town?

[1711] The shopkeeper.

[1712] Oh, he gets his ass beat.

[1713] In Armadillo.

[1714] Yeah.

[1715] It's like Hugo somebody or something like that.

[1716] The racist dude who in Undead Nightmare just goes off.

[1717] Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[1718] The awful anti -Semite.

[1719] Yeah.

[1720] You mean the scientists?

[1721] No, no, no. This is an armadillo.

[1722] He's a very, very bit character.

[1723] Okay.

[1724] Every time he got robbed and he brought the guy back, he'd say, whatever, you don't steal from me. You'd always kick him in the face.

[1725] Yeah.

[1726] Pretty awesome.

[1727] But just stuff like that where it's like, you got robbed again?

[1728] Dude, lock your store.

[1729] That's a victim of the same problem.

[1730] That's the problem that causes the lack of level design in Mass Effect.

[1731] There are only so many gameplay designers there to create scenarios.

[1732] And if you miss it the first time, you don't want to punish somebody by never having that again.

[1733] Or more to the point, you need to keep rolling them out.

[1734] over the course of the game because the game is like 40 hours long.

[1735] And if you saw them all once, you would never see anything else after five hours in.

[1736] The game was also a beast.

[1737] That was a long -ass game.

[1738] Do you think it would have benefited from being tighter?

[1739] That maybe if they didn't repeat a lot of the random events like that?

[1740] Those are so optional that it's not really...

[1741] But those things are good because they are what bring...

[1742] Otherwise, you do have this expanse of desert.

[1743] Right.

[1744] Where at some point it just ends up becoming Mafia 2 where it's like we built this world.

[1745] You're literally just going from story mission to story mission.

[1746] I'll tell you my biggest pet peeve about Redemption is the skinning animations.

[1747] That sucked.

[1748] Yeah.

[1749] That for me just seemed like an easy one to just hit the button again to skip.

[1750] Rockstar needs to get over their adoration for their own.

[1751] presentation of their games you know it's like oh you smell terrible mechanically those things like you had to start figuring out like well if I just get right up next to the thing on my horse and get off the horse right next to it it keeps the animation from happening and it goes more quickly you still get the item having to game it like that yeah that was unfortunate but a lot of that stuff is you know These are the acceptable sacrifices of an open world game.

[1752] But that's one that seems like...

[1753] I feel like as we've moved on through the years, they do become less and less acceptable.

[1754] And that's not to say that they're unacceptable here, but I like to think that standards are going to get to a point where there's going to be a time where that sort of stuff no longer flies.

[1755] You're not wrong, but...

[1756] a game that has focused, narrowed level design will always be able to be slicker and more polished than an open -world game.

[1757] It's true.

[1758] Just because you have, like...

[1759] Yeah.

[1760] I was having a conversation with someone about Assassin's Creed Brotherhood and the climbing and traversal animations in that versus Uncharted 2.

[1761] And I was like, well, yeah, in Uncharted 2, it's very narrow, specific level designs.

[1762] And because they have just that much space...

[1763] focus on, they can afford to put more time into that specific event.

[1764] Moreover, there are specific stones sticking out of the side of this building that you can climb on so they know exactly where to put his feet as he climbs up.

[1765] And where you're going to be at any moment.

[1766] Whereas you have Rome traverse...

[1767] I think, well, under those circumstances, I think Brotherhood does a phenomenal job with those systems.

[1768] Red Dead's kind of the same situation.

[1769] Yeah, and so, yeah.

[1770] Given the scope of that landscape and the variety of things you see.

[1771] But the skinny animation thing.

[1772] That was just a design flaw.

[1773] And I don't get the sense that the rock star is learning its lesson about that stuff at all.

[1774] L .A. Noire and the next GTA and whatever is going to have those same issues.

[1775] It's cool the first five times you see it, but you do a lot of gathering flowers and skinning in that game.

[1776] Especially if you're going for those challenges.

[1777] It's a lot of time wasted just in that stuff.

[1778] Also, why is John Marston picking flowers?

[1779] Because he's got to do what he's got to do.

[1780] Skinning animals.

[1781] I get it.

[1782] You're a mountain man. You're out there living in the wild.

[1783] He's got to make a poultice.

[1784] He's grinding.

[1785] He's making salves.

[1786] I don't know.

[1787] Living off the land.

[1788] Gambling.

[1789] I loved playing the poker and the liar's dice.

[1790] Although another situation where they should have streamlined it because there were too many camera cuts.

[1791] I did spend some time playing poker and I'm like, man, this is taking forever.

[1792] Or I wish they would have explained the dueling a little bit more.

[1793] I never got a perfect sense of how the duels were working.

[1794] I won almost all the duels, but I couldn't figure out why.

[1795] I think I understood it after a while.

[1796] Although it paid off.

[1797] very last duel of the game because my strategy was just to pull the trigger as many times as I could until it made me shoot.

[1798] So I ended up putting like eight bullets in that motherfucker.

[1799] That was kind of my strategy the entire game, but that paid off similarly.

[1800] That was pretty good.

[1801] The poor duel.

[1802] Oh, that ending.

[1803] The multiplayer.

[1804] I was going to say the multiplayer.

[1805] But it's...

[1806] I always think of it as the Metroid Prime 2 issue because that's the first really story -driven single -player game that I can remember where they shoehorned a multiplayer in.

[1807] But...

[1808] Core game is so good that if you just never clicked on multiplayer, it makes no difference whatsoever.

[1809] It's kind of a shame because I feel like Redemption, the combat, the gunplay, is probably contrary to what you believe, Jeff.

[1810] But I thought it was the best refinement they've done.

[1811] It's the best playing.

[1812] The cover.

[1813] For a Rockstar game.

[1814] The aiming was much better.

[1815] The Deadeye definitely helped in a lot of situations where you can just slow it down and kind of paint your targets.

[1816] But it felt really satisfying to me, especially with those weapons.

[1817] the time I spent playing multiplayer in Red Dead.

[1818] No, not in the multiplayer.

[1819] It directly mirrored my time with GTA 4 where it was like, why did they do this?

[1820] And again, Brad, to your point, they did not learn their lesson.

[1821] They had the kind of shoddy gameplay in GTA 4.

[1822] And they had these similarly shoddy, and yet somehow way more confusing multiplayer in Red Dead.

[1823] Like, the way I have played hours of the multiplayer in that game, I'm still not sure I understand how that shit's supposed to work.

[1824] It's kind of crazy, but the idea of having that many people in one world is pretty neat.

[1825] Well, on paper, it sounds odd.

[1826] Like, get a posse together, and we're going to roam the West and do stuff.

[1827] But it's just random murder.

[1828] That's all it is.

[1829] You get in there in any sort of a public situation, and it's just like, They don't separate any of the actions.

[1830] It's like, I'm trying to do something, and then random guy just runs up and murders me. It's very emergent.

[1831] If you happen to get in with a posse and want to take over a town and grieve people, then it could be awesome, or you could have a terrible time with it.

[1832] But I solved that problem by not ever playing it, ever.

[1833] Effective.

[1834] Red Dead is a single -player game to me. That's accurate.

[1835] That's accurate.

[1836] And I think still the best game of the year.

[1837] I disagree.

[1838] I know I'm not going to win this argument.

[1839] I'm so exhausted.

[1840] I've talked about so many video games at this point.

[1841] I think it's the best game of the year.

[1842] I just want to say that.

[1843] Fair enough.

[1844] I think that Assassin's Creed Brotherhood is the best game of the year.

[1845] All right.

[1846] I think Mass Effect 2 is the best game of the year.

[1847] Well, we can get to that in the next category.

[1848] What do you guys think is the best multiplayer game?

[1849] Let me ask real quick because I just ordered a copy of Brotherhood.

[1850] Are you going to talk about the ending of Brotherhood here?

[1851] Because I might just go out of the room.

[1852] I don't think we need to.

[1853] But you need to man up.

[1854] It's part of your job.

[1855] I just bought it.

[1856] And just if it gets spoiled for you, you need to live with it.

[1857] If I can avoid it, I'm going to.

[1858] I mean, out of context.

[1859] If you haven't played 2, it's not going to mean anything to you.

[1860] That's also true.

[1861] But I don't think it's going to be material to anything we're going to talk about here.

[1862] And I also don't...

[1863] I'm happy to see it in the company that it's in, and I think that Ubisoft did an amazing job with this game.

[1864] And again, it's not material to the discussion, but I think it's crazy impressive that they turned this around in a year after Assassin's Creed 2 came out.

[1865] Especially losing the creative head of the series.

[1866] Yeah.

[1867] Well, you know, I'm sure he contributed quite a bit.

[1868] Yeah, they spun it anyway, I believe, as his role with the game was finished.

[1869] So it wasn't necessarily, you know, it's like most of the design work had been completed by the time he left, which I believe because, you know, it was.

[1870] And even just like leading up to the release of like, well, like there's this multiplayer thing and that's really all they were showing.

[1871] didn't really have a sense of what the single -player element was going to be like, and then here it is, the biggest, boldest, most complete Assassin's Creed campaign that they've produced.

[1872] I felt like they aced it, and I want to commend them for it.

[1873] I can't believe they got a multiplayer that is functional, and not only functional, but actually pretty good.

[1874] In that kind of gameplay type.

[1875] The fact that they made Assassin's Creed gameplay work in a multiplayer setting is itself an insane feat.

[1876] Because you look at that and you're like, no. How does that even go?

[1877] And not only that, they figured out it's crazy, but they figured out a way to justify it within the internal logic of the Assassin's Creed fiction.

[1878] Which they didn't even have to do, really.

[1879] But it helped.

[1880] It really did help.

[1881] It's great that they did.

[1882] Yeah, yeah.

[1883] You're like, okay, I understand the scenario and why this is the way it is.

[1884] And the fact that they were able to use the fiction to help compensate for a really crazy gameplay contrivance that they needed to have to make the multiplayer work.

[1885] Right.

[1886] That's every part of that machine working as best as it can.

[1887] And that's, to me, very, very impressive.

[1888] I mean, it not only works into the fiction, I think it even expands it a little bit more because you're like, shit.

[1889] There's a lot going on.

[1890] These guys are pretty serious.

[1891] Starting to see the breadth of the Assassin's Creed universe.

[1892] Stuff they almost seed in the previous game.

[1893] And there's stuff that they seed in this game that makes me believe that the next Assassin's Creed game will not be Assassin's Creed 3 and will not involve Ezio or Desmond.

[1894] It's definitely a direction they could go.

[1895] They've expanded this universe to the point where it can support that.

[1896] What about Italy?

[1897] Huh?

[1898] Oh, I think – I mean, I think no. Are they done with that?

[1899] I think the next game – They have to be done with Italy.

[1900] So you're saying it's going to be the – what's the 17th?

[1901] Well, there's – What's that?

[1902] What's the subject?

[1903] No, no, it's not going to be him.

[1904] Oh, it's not going to happen.

[1905] It's going to be another team.

[1906] Oh, right.

[1907] If you dig into the emails.

[1908] The guys who disappeared.

[1909] Yeah, there are other teams out there.

[1910] They specifically see that this is happening elsewhere with the assassins.

[1911] And these guys have gone dark.

[1912] We don't know what happened to them.

[1913] Yeah, yeah.

[1914] Maybe we'll see the tragic story.

[1915] What the fuck are you guys talking about?

[1916] Exactly.

[1917] That, I think, might, I don't know.

[1918] I feel like that's what you do.

[1919] after you're done with the Desmond story.

[1920] I would hope so.

[1921] I know, because I want them to take more time with the Desmond.

[1922] I don't want the next one to be the end of the Desmond story.

[1923] Unless...

[1924] Yeah, no, I don't know, man. You start losing the thread after a while.

[1925] No, because you build it up so that by the time you get to the Desmond story, you have a sense for how huge and serious this whole situation is.

[1926] Yeah, I guess I could see them going that direction.

[1927] Going forward, you'd say Desmond is...

[1928] So are we comfortable talking about the minor spoilers for the Assassin's Creed?

[1929] We're talking about year -end stuff.

[1930] In previous days, we've definitely talked about very sensitive.

[1931] Is it really germane to whether this game is better than the other two?

[1932] We've got the list here.

[1933] Mass Effect 2.

[1934] I'm completely comfortable with Mass Effect 2 in this category.

[1935] The game's awesome.

[1936] I wish they did some things better, but it's pretty awesome.

[1937] It's pretty awesome.

[1938] It's pretty awesome.

[1939] Fuck that ending.

[1940] I mean, fuck parts of all three of these games.

[1941] Yeah.

[1942] Well, yeah.

[1943] The Mass Effect 2 thing is just such a fucking boner because it's like everything else is so damn tight.

[1944] Everything else is so good.

[1945] I just didn't think that part was that bad.

[1946] It just seems so weird.

[1947] It's unfortunate that they didn't have a more inventive final boss.

[1948] It is inventive.

[1949] It invents something fucking ridiculous.

[1950] At no point did that break anything for me. And it's not even just the design of what it looked like.

[1951] like learning disabled Terminator with like a kind of lazy eye.

[1952] But it was like the fact that like the only thing I kept saying over and over in my head was just like Charlton Heston like it's people.

[1953] It's made of people.

[1954] Like it's just pumping juice into it and be like how does chewed up people turn into like a giant robot exoskeleton somehow.

[1955] It's just fueled by people.

[1956] They put my Kelly in that robot.

[1957] Right.

[1958] I don't know.

[1959] Omni gel.

[1960] That's how.

[1961] Whatever, dude.

[1962] You can read the Codex thing on OmniGel and see how that was developed.

[1963] Also, where is my tabletop giant Mass Effect book?

[1964] Your giant Codex.

[1965] Yeah.

[1966] The Massopedia.

[1967] They should just release Codex for iPad or something.

[1968] Totally.

[1969] I would read that in the bathroom where it's meant to be read.

[1970] That's a great game.

[1971] I like it.

[1972] Is it our best multi -platform game of 2010?

[1973] I am comfortable with it as that.

[1974] On the condition that they make Mass Effect 3 better than Mass Effect 2, and not worse, like it looks like they may. I don't think you can make a condition like that.

[1975] Fucking listen to me right now.

[1976] You're putting it on my line right here?

[1977] So we will actually rescind this next year.

[1978] You've got one year.

[1979] It's a probationary award.

[1980] Although...

[1981] Is it a real year, or is it a Fable 3 year?

[1982] That's a good question.

[1983] Yeah, I just...

[1984] Suddenly it's July.

[1985] I hope they don't ruin that series.

[1986] Man, me too.

[1987] I don't know.

[1988] I don't think anything about the stuff that they've put out about Mass Effect 3 really gives me any indication that they're messing up.

[1989] Well, I mean, it became so much more of a shooter this time that if they want to continue tapping a wider audience...

[1990] The only thing that worries...

[1991] They arguably went a little too far in some respects with the transition to an action game.

[1992] I think so, but I think if they hone that action up and make it better while keeping a lot of the similar...

[1993] I think Bioware's strengths aren't in action or in RPG.

[1994] They're in storytelling and world building.

[1995] I agree, but EA may not see it that way.

[1996] But I mean, I kind of don't care.

[1997] About how it plays.

[1998] It played well enough.

[1999] It would be a great bonus if they made it play better than Mass Effect 2.

[2000] But if that shooting came out and it was the same.

[2001] If it's the same, fine.

[2002] It would be somewhat of a disappointment.

[2003] Yeah.

[2004] I'll live with it.

[2005] But not a make or break thing.

[2006] The only thing that gives me pause is like, please, please, please make sure the single player is fantastic.

[2007] I still don't think it's guaranteed that that game is going to have multiplayer in it.

[2008] Oh, really?

[2009] you're reading too much into stuff maybe i don't think it's a given at this point and and also i don't think it's a given that that breaks anything because no absolutely not in a battle for earth with that bald dude that guy could uh absolutely that could be fantastic i just uh you know i i think i personally don't my guess is that at worst if they do go a multiplayer route we will end up with a situation like Red Dead or GTA 4.

[2010] That's fine.

[2011] I think they're at a point where they're not going to sacrifice one for the other.

[2012] Not this trilogy.

[2013] You wrap up the Shepard story, I think anything goes, but they're going to go out the way they need to go out.

[2014] I really hope somebody doesn't do some kind of cost analysis where they look at the campaign and they're like, well, if it was 10 hours shorter, it's not going to cost us any sales.

[2015] Yeah, but I don't think that's going to happen this time around.

[2016] I hope not.

[2017] I don't know.

[2018] I think those changes take a longer period of time to manifest in game designs than games that are shipping a year from now even.

[2019] I hope my Cerberus Network card doesn't expire if I miss Effect 3.

[2020] I got the lifetime subscriptions.

[2021] I don't know.

[2022] I don't think me and the elusive man are...

[2023] You guys aren't down?

[2024] I don't think we're on good terms.

[2025] He terminated your account?

[2026] Yeah.

[2027] He might have already canceled my Cerberus Network access.

[2028] You made the good guy choice?

[2029] Yeah.

[2030] I said fuck him.

[2031] I would much rather have the elusive man as an enemy.

[2032] He's diabolical.

[2033] He's just kind of this unreasonable resource for you to have when he's on your side.

[2034] Like me having to have him trying to monkey wrench my shit in Mass Effect 3.

[2035] Especially when you figure that it's not necessarily in his best interests to have Earth blow up.

[2036] Well, that's the thing.

[2037] I mean, you still share a common goal, even if he is super pissed at you.

[2038] Even if you're not BFFs anymore, you still want the same things to happen, so I don't think that's going to happen.

[2039] But that relationship, a more conflicted relationship, definitely sounds exciting.

[2040] But I don't think it's going to result in two dramatically different versions of the next game.

[2041] I think you're probably right.

[2042] They will find a way to explain that away and reconcile.

[2043] Okay, so...

[2044] That is our best multi -platform game.

[2045] Now we are trying to pick five games for game of the year.

[2046] I think you can take the top three we just talked about.

[2047] I think those three probably make this list.

[2048] Yeah.

[2049] Let me tell you about StarCraft II.

[2050] What?

[2051] I think StarCraft II makes this list.

[2052] What?

[2053] You guys are crazy.

[2054] Oh, wait.

[2055] I don't actually have to tell you about it, right?

[2056] Okay.

[2057] I'm going to write that down.

[2058] And we'll...

[2059] Do we have any other games that we feel...

[2060] Make this list.

[2061] I'll read their list of games we eliminated for best multi -platform game.

[2062] Maybe one of them makes it.

[2063] Need for Speed Off Pursuit.

[2064] Rock Band 3.

[2065] Call of Duty Black Ops.

[2066] Darksiders Bayonetta.

[2067] Pac -Man Championship Edition DX.

[2068] Vanquish.

[2069] Super Meat Boy.

[2070] I don't think...

[2071] I mean if they were...

[2072] Alright.

[2073] I'll go back and read the lists that we have for our platform exclusive categories.

[2074] Okay.

[2075] Starcraft 2.

[2076] Civ 5.

[2077] Call these out if you think we should write them down.

[2078] Starcraft 2 for sure.

[2079] Okay, that's already written down.

[2080] V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V. I mean, I think Civ V or CEDX would be my choice for this number five slot.

[2081] Yeah, I think those are both worthy games that we'll add to the list.

[2082] Okay.

[2083] Let me scroll back up to Xbox.

[2084] Limbo.

[2085] Halo Reach.

[2086] Dance Central.

[2087] I like Limbo a lot.

[2088] Yeah, but it's not.

[2089] I also like Limbo a lot, but keep in mind that Limbo lost to Halo Reach, so if...

[2090] Over my explicit objection.

[2091] It also lost Pac -Man over my explicit objection.

[2092] If Limbo made this list and Halo did not, that would be weird.

[2093] Maybe we need to revisit those categories.

[2094] Go ahead.

[2095] You seem like the least prepared to revisit anything right now.

[2096] You know what?

[2097] I want to go home.

[2098] Super Mario Galaxy 2.

[2099] Kirby's Epic Yarn.

[2100] Goldeneye.

[2101] Galaxy 2.

[2102] Galaxy 2 is really good.

[2103] I don't think it pushes off Civ V or some of the other games we've already added, to be honest.

[2104] I didn't play it.

[2105] I'm just asking.

[2106] How do we feel about Hot Pursuit?

[2107] I like Hot Pursuit a lot.

[2108] It's a great game, but I think it's just weird.

[2109] That already went up against the...

[2110] three of these other games.

[2111] Well, I mean, we're looking for a list of five.

[2112] So this is an expanded list for our five games of the year.

[2113] If Hot Pursuit is number four on the multi -platform list.

[2114] Hot Pursuit is at a point where it cannot win game of the year without us changing that decision.

[2115] But it could be one of our top five games of the year.

[2116] Okay, yeah, let's put it on there then.

[2117] God of War 3, Heavy Rain, Sports Champions.

[2118] I think it's Civ V. Really?

[2119] I think it's Civ V. Man, I don't know.

[2120] I think that, I mean, the obtuse, grognard -ass genre of turn -based PC strategy games, historically based turn -based PC strategy games, the fact that they're able to make that game more accessible than their console -based Civ Rev. Sure.

[2121] Like, that's an incredible feat.

[2122] I'll absolutely give you that.

[2123] Can we back up a bit and just talk about locks for this list?

[2124] This conversation is a lot more productive if we've got that other stuff locked in.

[2125] I think that trio and Starcraft.

[2126] The trio and Starcraft locked in.

[2127] The four are locked.

[2128] Okay, just want to make sure that we all agree on that.

[2129] Yeah, absolutely.

[2130] Okay, so at this point we were talking about Civ V, Pac -Man, and Need for Speed.

[2131] That's it?

[2132] For the fifth slot.

[2133] For the number five slot.

[2134] Is Bayonetta off?

[2135] I think Bayonetta's off.

[2136] I like Bayonetta, but I don't think it rolls in this company.

[2137] Hot Pursuit Civ V, and what was the other one?

[2138] Pac -Man.

[2139] Pac -Man.

[2140] Mario Galaxy really doesn't hang with any of those?

[2141] I mean, it's very good.

[2142] I don't know.

[2143] You seem real big on that game back when it came out.

[2144] Yeah, absolutely.

[2145] It's incredibly impressive what they do, but I feel like these other games are...

[2146] Are they better?

[2147] I don't know.

[2148] For me, I like Mario Galaxy 2 a lot too, but just for me, I feel like it wasn't a new experience this year.

[2149] Yeah, that's fair.

[2150] It was a great experience.

[2151] Even if they did it better than the last one, it's still just another one, I guess.

[2152] I feel like everything else on this list is significantly evolutionary at the least.

[2153] Yeah.

[2154] It's like we're cutting Need for Speed.

[2155] Really?

[2156] For Definitely?

[2157] Or not?

[2158] Wait, that leaves us with Civ versus Pac -Man.

[2159] I don't know.

[2160] I don't think you could have a more different fight.

[2161] I don't feel that strongly.

[2162] about Pac -Man.

[2163] I think it's a great game.

[2164] I don't know if it was one of the most fantastic top five experiences that I've had this year.

[2165] I am okay with Civ making this list, so if that's kind of how we're all leaning, I think that's fine.

[2166] Like Hot Pursuit as well.

[2167] A fight between Civ V and Hot Pursuit seems a little more reasonable to me than a Pac -Man.

[2168] Are we cutting Pac -Man?

[2169] I like Need for Speed better than either of the other two.

[2170] Okay, so I do like Pac -Man a lot, but I'm okay with cutting it.

[2171] It sounds like we're all okay with cutting it.

[2172] Sure.

[2173] I think Pac -Man, the things it did spectacularly, we celebrated.

[2174] Yeah.

[2175] It's music.

[2176] It's gotten its props.

[2177] I'll continue to celebrate.

[2178] For sure.

[2179] But yeah, it's, yeah.

[2180] Okay.

[2181] I think Civ V, I think Criterion did what Criterion does with Need for Speed.

[2182] They made a good accessible racing game.

[2183] There's some innovative things with the way they structured it.

[2184] It's an incredible -looking game.

[2185] But, I mean, other than the fact that Need for Speed games have been kind of crappy for the past few years, I don't feel like they necessarily surprised anyone with what they produced.

[2186] Yeah, I'll give you that.

[2187] It's expertly crafted.

[2188] It's a ton of fun.

[2189] I've spent shitloads of time with it.

[2190] I think that there are some things about it that could be better.

[2191] Yeah.

[2192] Some pretty clear things on the front end, and then also...

[2193] with maybe just like power distribution and load out stuff that could have been a deeper game than what they've got.

[2194] Definitely.

[2195] But I love the autolog stuff.

[2196] I love the way that they've streamlined everything into the one experience bucket.

[2197] I think that's smart autolog.

[2198] I kind of take it or leave it.

[2199] I think that's the future.

[2200] I think it's a really good way to implement friends leaderboards, and I agree more games should do that.

[2201] that comes at the expense of having like a really clean way to navigate from event to event when you're playing offline.

[2202] Well, I think that's the feeling of how they present the career stuff.

[2203] Yeah.

[2204] That should have just been a list.

[2205] Yeah.

[2206] Like if that had just been a list, it would have been easier to navigate and not been as much an issue.

[2207] Here's tier five and all the races you can do there.

[2208] They're now open to you.

[2209] But that's not really the autolog's fault.

[2210] It's just that.

[2211] Well, I feel like the autolog doesn't necessarily make up for those deficiencies.

[2212] You're right.

[2213] And the autolog is fine, but it's really just a friend's leaderboard.

[2214] Right, but it is.

[2215] If they just surface that leaderboard next to every event on said list when you hovered over it, that would be fine too.

[2216] See, but I got to disagree because the problem with a friend's leaderboard is that it's just like, well, here's 85 different things under which I am competing with my friends.

[2217] The beauty of the autolog is that it.

[2218] It is specifically focusing and directing you towards sections of that.

[2219] If I had to dig through a bunch of leaderboards, even just like right bumpering through, like here's a leaderboard for this track or for this track or whatever, I think that the presentational elements of the autolog significantly advance that idea.

[2220] All right.

[2221] That's fine.

[2222] But I still think Civ 5.

[2223] You got it.

[2224] I think we're, yeah.

[2225] Well, I just, I wanted to, I want to, like, I am using these deliberations to just...

[2226] Hash it out in your head.

[2227] Well, even just to say things about these games.

[2228] Good and bad.

[2229] Because, you know, this is...

[2230] What do you say about the final requisition?

[2231] You know, a lot of people leveled a lot of criticism at Civ 5 for the AI.

[2232] Yeah, I was just going to say.

[2233] And kind of the balance that you eventually figure out the trick and then just...

[2234] that kind of breaks the game and you push them around.

[2235] You can start cracking that AI after a bit.

[2236] I felt like I started getting a sense of that before I even finished a single game.

[2237] They can be pretty silly at times, like sending one dude against your city.

[2238] Why would you do that?

[2239] I'm just going to roll up on your other city.

[2240] I mean, when I played it on the hardest level, that game is hard.

[2241] No matter what the AI is doing.

[2242] I've heard people with those complaints.

[2243] I never experienced that.

[2244] I felt like I was always...

[2245] Like juggling of focusing on building your own stuff while also trying to, you know, explore out like the – So many scales that you are trying to balance at any given time and the situational conditions for whether you should be focusing in one direction or another, the leaders and the civilizations that you choose to play on and the impacts that they have.

[2246] Maybe I'm just not that good at strategy games, but I could not necessarily – there are so many systems in play at once.

[2247] I could not necessarily suss out and game.

[2248] one of them very effectively, but I'm sure there are plenty of people that can.

[2249] I found it wildly engrossing, and the value proposition of that game to me is nuts.

[2250] How long you can spend playing Civ is pretty crazy to me. You can.

[2251] Something's going on outside.

[2252] It's end of the workday out there.

[2253] Oh, Jesus.

[2254] But not in here.

[2255] My biggest problem with it was that as a new player, it definitely does a great job of getting you into the game.

[2256] I don't think it does the best job of keeping you there.

[2257] Like the first night, the day it came out, the night it came out, I went home and played it and I was all excited to try this Civ thing that I kept hearing about and sat there like classic one more turn style until like two in the morning.

[2258] Yep.

[2259] I thought it was great.

[2260] Went back to that game a few more times, and at some point hit a wall where I had taken everything over.

[2261] Was kind of exploring out into the ocean and stuff, and I felt like at some point it lost me, or I lost the focus of it.

[2262] At some point, I couldn't really...

[2263] I mean, there's kind of an arc to a lot of the games of there's a Middle Ages kind of...

[2264] Like the doldrums, basically.

[2265] I was just like, what should I do now?

[2266] There's a kind of not action -y section where...

[2267] Actually, it's kind of an important part in the growth of your nation as you get towards the endgame because you've done kind of your inside of your landmass expansions, but you haven't gotten to the part where you're really bumping up against the other civilizations out there.

[2268] And in that time can be the difference of, like, well, choices that you make and how you choose to develop and focus your resources.

[2269] But so much of that, like you said, is not about land expansion.

[2270] It's about increase in technology or development of culture.

[2271] But that stuff is represented so abstractly.

[2272] It's all in menus.

[2273] It's all little icons that change.

[2274] It's like, okay, now I have advanced to this age and I have these technologies.

[2275] Maybe it's just as a new player, not having the experience of the previous games.

[2276] You don't get a great sense of what to do with that stuff.

[2277] And it still does kind of, and I think at a certain point you just accept this of Civ, but the crazy anachronisms within your culture and going up against other cultures can be weird.

[2278] That sounds great.

[2279] I think that's hilarious.

[2280] Yeah.

[2281] But it's more that it's just not that satisfying to me to just see these numbers going up.

[2282] I think one of the weird things about Civ for me is...

[2283] inherent to Civ.

[2284] But it's the thing where you finish the game and you're like, okay, I'm just starting a new game.

[2285] It's like a board game.

[2286] That's like the natural extension of what I'm talking about.

[2287] Ultimately, none of it matters.

[2288] I think actually if you made a big story -driven...

[2289] Civ game that did all that stuff, I don't think that makes a better game.

[2290] So I think it's more just like, I don't like that about Civ.

[2291] But keep in mind that that one game of Civ lasted about as long as any crafted campaign you might play in most other games.

[2292] That's possible, yeah.

[2293] The average, like the normal length setting for Civ 5 for a game of it.

[2294] Well, they do smart things too and let you speed it up if that's all you gotta do.

[2295] But yes, you can definitely.

[2296] Because you could do.

[2297] No, I'm saying like average game, like eight hours.

[2298] And for a lot of games out there, granted, not necessarily within this genre and on the PC, but there's plenty of games out there that eight hours constitutes a full, rich campaign.

[2299] It's true.

[2300] So I think that that is to Civ's advantage.

[2301] I would love to.

[2302] I mean, I think we have other games that we could put in this fifth slot, and I'd love to hear arguments for those.

[2303] Would you really?

[2304] Yeah.

[2305] Do you have any?

[2306] Sure.

[2307] How did you guys feel about that?

[2308] Best fact, he was already on here.

[2309] Oh, well, I guess.

[2310] Well, Zip 5 is fine, I guess.

[2311] How did you guys like Shadow Broker?

[2312] I liked it.

[2313] You can't put that on a separate thing.

[2314] I don't know.

[2315] It's not as good as some other.

[2316] Yeah, it's a tough one between if it's just Zip 5 and Hot Pursuit.

[2317] Is there something else that you think should be in that spot?

[2318] These are really good games.

[2319] If you don't have one immediately, I'd feel pretty good about Halo Reach.

[2320] Yeah, I don't know.

[2321] You know, maybe over Hot Pursuit or Civ V, I could see that.

[2322] I think I would probably take Hot Pursuit over...

[2323] In fact, I think I would probably take both these games over Halo Reach.

[2324] I would take Hot Pursuit over Reach and Civ V, personally.

[2325] But I feel like we've moved on from Hot Pursuit.

[2326] I don't think we have.

[2327] I don't think we necessarily have.

[2328] No, I would.

[2329] Hot Pursuit.

[2330] If the table loves Hot Pursuit, then Hot Pursuit is our fifth game.

[2331] I have no problem.

[2332] I also love the shit out of Hot Pursuit.

[2333] I just wanted to make sure that time was given to Civ.

[2334] I love Civ, but I think Hot Pursuit, I'm really shocked at the way they handled the friends list stuff.

[2335] I agree with Ryan.

[2336] I think that is the future of how to do that stuff intelligently.

[2337] I agree.

[2338] I just hope that it doesn't get to a point where Marvel games are basing so much.

[2339] much of their stuff around that thing as opposed to...

[2340] Well, for a game that...

[2341] It shouldn't be in lieu of a good structured single player experience.

[2342] Yeah, that's what I want to say.

[2343] I think that, you know...

[2344] But for a game that's going to peter out on the single player, you're going to reach a point where you've done all the single player stuff and you're done.

[2345] And...

[2346] We've seen so much, even this year, of splitting your single -player game into seriously a separate game from your multiplayer.

[2347] And to see something just come back totally the other way and integrate it so nicely.

[2348] It's kind of like back when Doom let you play Deathmatch on the same maps that you played the campaign on.

[2349] It's like Hot Pursuits Online is literally just the career with real people.

[2350] And they do it without...

[2351] making their multiplayer meaningless.

[2352] That's the best part.

[2353] Other games have combined that stuff, but it ends up being at the detriment of the multiplayer, or you at least are left with the sense that they're not taking their multiplayer seriously, because you're like, I'm just going to go level up and become super powerful doing this really easy stuff, so that when I get into the multiplayer, I'm whipping fool's asses.

[2354] Yeah, they manage...

[2355] That doesn't happen in Hot Pursuit, and I feel like they did a really good job balancing that out.

[2356] I don't know how that game would play if I didn't have friends who were playing it.

[2357] That might be a disappointment, but I wasn't in that situation.

[2358] So it was always fun to see new scores come up and have that.

[2359] Just what Xbox Live and these network services are meant to do is to one -up the next guy.

[2360] And it worked perfectly for me. Yeah.

[2361] I think that what...

[2362] what Hot Pursuit does with structure elements and with integrating your friends' performances with whatever arbitrary game goals that they've set into one bucket.

[2363] I think that will have as much impact as perks.

[2364] I think if people see that and run with it, that could...

[2365] change the way games are structured in that significant way.

[2366] There's a lot of interesting things in games you realize when they bring that stuff up on your friends list.

[2367] Like if Assassin's Creed 2 Brotherhood, it would have taken you right out of the game.

[2368] So I'm just saying don't do this.

[2369] But if it had on some of those challenges where it's like get 100 % by beating this in a minute and 15 seconds in some of those tombs and stuff.

[2370] If I saw that one of you guys had done that.

[2371] I might have been more inclined.

[2372] Well, they have that in the challenges.

[2373] In the combat trainer, it actually does do exactly that.

[2374] But during some of that stuff, it's just like, oh, man, I tried real hard, and I don't know who could do this.

[2375] Fable 3, I think, does it almost the wrong way.

[2376] Yes.

[2377] They're tracking so much weird stuff, and the way it pops up is really weird.

[2378] I like the way that stuff popped up, but I think that same idea is handled much more elegantly and appropriately.

[2379] This sounds like Need for Speed is our fifth game.

[2380] Yeah, and I'm happy with that.

[2381] And I'm happy that everyone is into Need for Speed.

[2382] It's mind -blowing that we're...

[2383] talking so glowingly about a Need for Speed product.

[2384] Yeah, considering where they've been for most of this generation of console hardware.

[2385] Yeah, absolutely.

[2386] Another memorable aspect of that game is that it's fun as shit.

[2387] Yeah.

[2388] It's just so much fun to play with friends, just jump in and fuck each other up.

[2389] It's not this sort of thing where only the teams can hear each other.

[2390] It's just like you just want to...

[2391] Yell at dudes.

[2392] You know, I am generally a pretty civil player, but I will talk a gang of shit when I am playing Hot Pursuit.

[2393] It's a good game for that.

[2394] Oh my god.

[2395] Also, the horrible stuff that will come out of my mouth.

[2396] Half of the conversation when you're playing that game online is composed of non -verbal grunts and yells and cursing and nothing.

[2397] Alright, so we have our five.

[2398] They are Mass Effect 2.

[2399] Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, Red Dead Redemption, Starcraft 2, and Need for Speed Hot Pursuit.

[2400] Now we need to pick a winner.

[2401] Keep in mind that realistically there are only two games that can win without us going back and changing other...

[2402] And there's only one game that supports an entire professional league.

[2403] This is a space fight.

[2404] If that is your fight, you have lost me. If eSports is all you got.

[2405] Brad, I need to be convinced.

[2406] Oh, man. I don't know if I have it in me. You have to convince me or else I'm going to say it's Mass Effect 2.

[2407] Well, I don't think I can convince you guys just by virtue of you not really being into it or having played it.

[2408] I think it's awesome.

[2409] I think that game is awesome.

[2410] I think the way they bring those characters back.

[2411] is incredible.

[2412] I think they pull off the whole one faction campaign thing surprisingly well.

[2413] So we're talking about single player here.

[2414] Let's talk about that because that's at least some common ground here.

[2415] They did what Street Fighter 4 did for fighting games I think and I don't necessarily think it'll lead to a revival the same way that maybe Street Fighter 4 is for fighting games but they have taken years of I hesitate to even call them advancements, but the years of the changes that have happened to the real -time strategy genre and selected the very few of those that actually benefit that style of game and implemented them by creating this amazing online system and doing all that other stuff and ditching all of that other bullshit to give you a game that can be comprehended and played by just about anybody.

[2416] And enjoyed.

[2417] And still feels true to the core of what made it amazing in the first place.

[2418] Yeah.

[2419] You know, they surround it with a fascinating story that is well told.

[2420] The stuff on the ship, I thought, was really well done and really cool.

[2421] It's fun to team up with your friends against the AI.

[2422] Even if you're not going to go crazy, even if you're not going to go crazy on the multiplayer side, there's still a lot to StarCraft II's.

[2423] multiplayer side of playing against AI, and even if you're just stopping them into the ground over and over again on easy, climbing that tech tree is still awesome.

[2424] Building 12 fucking battle cruisers and sailing in there.

[2425] Even if you never bother to fuck around and figure out what a fucking six pool is and build orders and really sweat that stuff.

[2426] Come up with your own acronym.

[2427] Yeah.

[2428] Like, there's still, like...

[2429] Some really amazing stuff in StarCraft 2.

[2430] So I come from this from, I think, in this group, a unique perspective in that I have literally never played the original StarCraft.

[2431] Well.

[2432] At all.

[2433] I have never had it installed on a machine that I owned.

[2434] Because you knew this conversation would happen someday and we needed a...

[2435] I was controlled.

[2436] The last time that real -time strategy games mattered, I was a CNC guy.

[2437] That was my game of choice, and I liked the way they handled those things, so I just didn't really pay any attention to the Blizzard style of real -time strategy games.

[2438] So what that means for me is that I don't have a decade -old attachment to the characters, the story, just the...

[2439] The flow of the gameplay, the basic like gas, minerals, like those systems to me aren't – like I go into StarCraft 2.

[2440] That shit is entirely new to me, like 100%.

[2441] Like I know basically what happens in StarCraft 1, so I know kind of the basic story beats.

[2442] But I'm not – I don't know Jimmy.

[2443] All of the things about the tragedies with Kerrigan and everything are a Wikipedia page.

[2444] It did not play out in a game.

[2445] So without that – and I feel like that's – in a certain way, that's almost analogous to walking into Mass Effect 2 without having played – without already – Having at least a familiarity with the races of the universe.

[2446] I think not knowing the Kerrigan stuff is kind of a huge thing walking into that game.

[2447] Well, but they do an amazing job of calling back to the story of the first game.

[2448] Where appropriate.

[2449] I mean, it's in the install as well.

[2450] I mean, the installer schools you on everything you need to know.

[2451] I remember when we were sitting there installing it for the first time.

[2452] Okay, I do feel that I have been adequately brought up to speed on what's up in StarCraft.

[2453] But that's information.

[2454] That's not heart.

[2455] Well, they give you plenty of heart in the campaign.

[2456] The flashback scene to what happened to Kerrigan in the first game is lovely render.

[2457] It was pretty damn good looking.

[2458] Better than you ever saw it.

[2459] But here's what's so amazing about it.

[2460] If they were to take that and sell it on disc for $30, I bet they would clean up.

[2461] I went online and pulled up a YouTube video of that happening in the original game and realized that the dialogue is line for line exactly the same in that cutscene as it is in that mission that happened in the first game.

[2462] But in the first game, all those stories...

[2463] The most dramatic moments of that game played out with little 64x64 animated GIFs of people flapping their lips with dialogue happening.

[2464] Those intro movies were great.

[2465] Yeah, but there was no dialogue in those scenes.

[2466] Those were just showpieces, basically.

[2467] The guy's like, who's in charge here?

[2468] The actual story in the first StarCraft is all text and little flapping lips.

[2469] So to take that exact same dialogue, it may have even been the same voice samples for all I could tell.

[2470] And lay them into a dramatic retelling of that most pivotal moment of the whole storyline of the franchise.

[2471] It was like an expert callback to that first game.

[2472] It was very cool.

[2473] I actually went back.

[2474] I played all of StarCraft and Brood War right before.

[2475] Remember I had it.

[2476] What are you doing?

[2477] Do you want to play StarCraft 2?

[2478] I was like, now I need to refresh my memory and play all three of these again.

[2479] Yeah, those are good games.

[2480] And yeah, they do a great job of tying that stuff in.

[2481] As if minutes had passed.

[2482] And poor old Kerrigan.

[2483] Yeah.

[2484] And similarly, so I dove into the StarCraft II single -player campaign.

[2485] Cold.

[2486] Fairly cold.

[2487] And it is kind of a slow burn the first few missions.

[2488] But I just reached a point where I felt like...

[2489] And this is, again, for me not having the points of reference, I felt like, I'm like, this is a real -time strategy game.

[2490] It is.

[2491] Jeff, your point is 100 % accurate that they didn't reinvent anything.

[2492] I'm like, I'm going to collect resources.

[2493] I'm going to...

[2494] build units, I'm going to expand, I'm going to go crush the other.

[2495] I know that there are story missions where they go away from that and that those can be a lot of fun.

[2496] The campaign does itself a disservice by not showing you any of those up front.

[2497] It's probably four or five missions in the game before you ever see anything like that.

[2498] The first three missions are very classic, like build a base and either defend yourself or go kill the other guy.

[2499] At the same time, I feel like they build that stuff in such a way that it still feels good.

[2500] It is a throwback to a very old game, but if you look at where that genre went and how far up its own ass it got and alienated so many people that did start with the early Warcraft games and Command & Conquers and stuff, just by the time we reached...

[2501] anything past total annihilation.

[2502] I was like, all right, well, fuck this.

[2503] I don't, I mean, I don't, I don't disagree.

[2504] I don't think that it would have benefited them to necessarily have, have taken more, more notes from other RTS games since then.

[2505] I just, at a certain point, I kind of felt like, I don't know that I personally care to play, you know, a traditional RTS game again.

[2506] Like that's – it's a style of game that I just – I don't know.

[2507] Even if it's super refined and well -presented and in a universe with great characters, like just that style of gameplay, it wasn't – which is really weird because I actually think that Brad's argument for StarCraft II concerning the multiplayer is the most powerful thing about it because watching matches of StarCraft II is exhilarating.

[2508] I don't even really know what the fuck is going on.

[2509] But if you have a good commentator and you're watching these matches play out, It's really impressive.

[2510] There is, you know, I get why this is, why esports revolve around this.

[2511] I get, you know, people training all the time.

[2512] Like, there is clearly something to this.

[2513] I will say up front that I think esports is kind of a cloying term.

[2514] It's not a great label for this activity.

[2515] But when people say esports, they are basically saying StarCraft II.

[2516] Like, people play other games competitively, but nothing even approaches.

[2517] Well, whatever.

[2518] Domestically, there are leagues set up around all kinds of different games, and they all call it esports and have for a long time.

[2519] There are.

[2520] It's true.

[2521] It's true.

[2522] But the popularity of this has eclipsed everything else, I think, to such a degree.

[2523] Yeah.

[2524] I mean, the stuff that's going on around StarCraft and StarCraft II in Korea seems like the only, like, really legitimate use of the term.

[2525] And I feel like a lot of the domestic stuff is exploitative and kind of gross.

[2526] This doesn't seem like.

[2527] I don't know.

[2528] I think eight dudes living in an apartment is kind of exploitative and gross.

[2529] Not to say that I don't celebrate it entirely because that's crazy shit.

[2530] I guess at some point it's because you never see the interview with the guy who runs the league who seems like he's just burning cigars with money going, we're going to be bigger than poker on TV someday.

[2531] Stick with me, kid.

[2532] It never seems like energy drink endorsement.

[2533] someone is not seeing any money for because the league gets it or anything weird like that i kind of feel the same way i do just about regular sports and that uh passive interest in it.

[2534] Even watching it, it doesn't really engage me that much until the stakes are super high.

[2535] And then it's really interesting to just...

[2536] There's like a drama there.

[2537] Just know that some dude is going to start crying and some dude is going to...

[2538] This is what he just wanted for the last, you know, a couple...

[2539] Like the human drama in it.

[2540] Like this...

[2541] One of these guys is 10 minutes away from being $100 ,000 richer.

[2542] Right.

[2543] And then it becomes really exciting.

[2544] But like just the kind of like...

[2545] At the same time, none of us necessarily play at that level and...

[2546] So, like, watching it, for me, is not very exciting until, like, you know, you show me footage from Korea where, like, this is it for me, guys.

[2547] Well, you certainly don't have to play at that level to appreciate play of that level.

[2548] Not even close.

[2549] Yeah, like, for me, it's, like, I don't know.

[2550] Like, the multiplayer stuff is not my bag.

[2551] Vinny, let's develop a game based entirely on making dudes cry.

[2552] It's called StarCraft.

[2553] Trust me, I know.

[2554] No, inside the game.

[2555] All you want to do is try and make that dude cry.

[2556] I don't think I'm going to win anybody over with this argument, but in the way that people refer to boxing as sweet science, right?

[2557] Or people call soccer the beautiful game because...

[2558] Because they're crazy.

[2559] Something beautiful about soccer.

[2560] Whatever.

[2561] The rules are such, and the skill of the best people, the best players at the sport are such that the instances that come out, the moment -to -moment instances that come out of that set of rules and those players putting their skills to use within that rule set are...

[2562] There's a purity and an elegance to it that you don't get in...

[2563] You know, games that you play on your own.

[2564] Right.

[2565] I guess is what I'm trying to say.

[2566] And in most other multiplayer games.

[2567] I think fighting games when they're done well and played by the right people approach that.

[2568] But we've been...

[2569] But that probably...

[2570] I think a chunk of that maps back to our own personal interests.

[2571] Yeah.

[2572] But that's fine.

[2573] It is our game of the year.

[2574] I've watched a lot of...

[2575] Over the last year with TNT, I've watched a lot of different games being played by people as a spectator.

[2576] StarCraft always kills it.

[2577] StarCraft is always, for me, the most interesting one to watch.

[2578] It's the only game I know of online that people are actively paying to watch other people play right now, myself included.

[2579] That said, Mass Effect 2 is pretty sweet.

[2580] Mass Effect 2 is pretty sweet.

[2581] I like that game an awful lot.

[2582] It's, you know, middle chapter in – that is – I'm cribbing a lot from my own shit here, but I need to use it anyway.

[2583] That's all I got.

[2584] That is one of the best, most fully realized sci -fi universes regardless of format of where it's being presented.

[2585] The Mass Effect universe is just rich with detail and history.

[2586] The way that they have created this web of weird relationships between the different species is just completely fascinating and has allowed for them to bubble up.

[2587] Like out of those ideas, they've bubbled up these characters that represent aspects of their own species but also have very unique and – well -defined personalities.

[2588] Again, like I said it earlier, but I think Mass Effect 2 has the most, the most interesting characters in games this year.

[2589] Definitely has that sweet spot for me right between Star Trek and Star Wars.

[2590] I was just about to say, I think it's done, because what you just described is my favorite thing about Mass Effect, but it's done a fantastic job of transcending its split influence where...

[2591] When the first Mass Effect came out, it was like, wow, you guys lost the Star Wars license, but you sure did still get the Force in there.

[2592] Yeah, yeah.

[2593] And it's a testament to it that we can say things like they should put the codex on an iPad.

[2594] Yeah, totally.

[2595] It reminds me of that Star Trek The Next Generation technical manual where it's super crazy minutiae about this thing, but it's fully realized, and Mass Effect has that too.

[2596] Yeah, it elevates itself above being derivative of those two things.

[2597] Your point is great because that first Mass Effect is like, well, okay.

[2598] You guys stole the powers from Star Wars and the kind of pseudoscience from Star Trek.

[2599] Also, we know you made KOTOR.

[2600] Don't even try.

[2601] It's a lie.

[2602] Also, you should read my paper on Mass Effect versus the Fall of Hyperion book and similarities that...

[2603] But you get to Mass Effect 2.

[2604] I feel like that game cements that universe as having its own identity and a really terrific and interesting one.

[2605] Yeah.

[2606] I'm sorry.

[2607] No, we were, Brad, you and I were talking about this yesterday and some of the weird, even some of the kind of like gameplay mechanics they had to introduce in Mass Effect 2, which seemed absurd, like clips in guns suddenly appear in Mass Effect 2 where there were none.

[2608] I feel like they try at least to support in the fiction where they're like, you know, we would realize the guests were using, you know, their heat sinks, quote unquote, you know, and like we realized the human could reload faster or whatever.

[2609] But like I loved, They had me when they were like, yeah, you shove a brick of this metal into the gun.

[2610] The reason you don't run out of ammunition is because you shave off a tiny little piece of it.

[2611] Like a micron -thin piece of this that we're accelerating at subsonic speeds.

[2612] And that'll kill you.

[2613] So, like, you've kind of got infinite of those because if it goes fast enough, it'll kill you when it hits you.

[2614] So we don't need ammo.

[2615] But then it was kind of a bummer when they were like, you know what?

[2616] This is going to be a shooter now, so you kind of need ammo.

[2617] It's a heat sink.

[2618] Probably my favorite thing about Mass Effect is its respect for actual science and kind of hard science fiction and not necessarily in the stylistic sense, although it does definitely sort of look like, you know, kind of late 70s, early 80s.

[2619] Yeah.

[2620] In terms of the sound, like the instrumentation, the sound track and like the lens flare filters and stuff.

[2621] They seem genuinely interested in actually trying to plausibly explain most of the things that happen in that universe.

[2622] To the point that I was sitting there reading the description of every planet that I came across.

[2623] Obsessively.

[2624] That sounds crazy.

[2625] To the point where even the heat sink stuff made sense.

[2626] Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[2627] It was weird that it was like, well, the first game it didn't have it, but now it does.

[2628] But that's a cool explanation.

[2629] It's like, no, I'm not putting in clips of ammunition.

[2630] This is the disposable heat sink so that I can keep running whatever crazy chemical reaction that's going on inside this gun from overheating.

[2631] That's nuts.

[2632] It's interesting.

[2633] It gets very obscure.

[2634] Any game that, like, talks in astronomical units is pretty awesome.

[2635] But you're right about, like, I loved the, like, the fact that they had these full crazy planet descriptions for every system that you went to.

[2636] But, like, mini fictions in it that were, like, you know.

[2637] Mining sucked, though.

[2638] Yeah, mining did suck.

[2639] Mining was pretty lousy.

[2640] Terrible.

[2641] Mine's ghetto ass.

[2642] Gave you a good opportunity to listen to that music, though.

[2643] Yeah.

[2644] At least you didn't have to descend to the planet.

[2645] At a certain point, that music started driving me nuts, though.

[2646] I love that music.

[2647] It's good.

[2648] I was happy with the way it drove me nuts.

[2649] I could never notice that.

[2650] It was not Wii menu music for me in that regard.

[2651] Also, I would not mind if there were an intercom system on the ship.

[2652] It'd be like, hey, come here.

[2653] Yeah.

[2654] Or, hey, is there anything that we need to talk about?

[2655] Right.

[2656] Well, Kelly tried to fill that role, but she wasn't very good at it.

[2657] Kelly's worthless.

[2658] Goddamn.

[2659] If you were like, Morton wants to talk to you, it'd be like, great.

[2660] Morton, what do you want?

[2661] Yeah, feed your fish.

[2662] Not as a lady shepherd.

[2663] That's the wrong shepherd.

[2664] You know what's awesome about using the default Shepard?

[2665] Every time they put out a trailer for a Mass Effect game, you're just like, hey, it's Shepard.

[2666] Who the hell is that?

[2667] That's why I reset to default Shepard for Mass Effect 2.

[2668] I had my own kind of space Chuck Norris for the first game, and I imported him and went, eh.

[2669] I mean, the worst part about the character creator is that nothing you can make looks as good or convincing as the real model because it's scanned from a human being.

[2670] But now they're doing that for practically every character.

[2671] For this game, they should do Game Face.

[2672] They should just import the EA Sports Game Face stuff, and if they can find a way to make that work...

[2673] SF's gotten pretty good.

[2674] If you could tell me that I could be Shepard, then that would be crazy in a way I can fully support.

[2675] If you could tell me I could be female Shepard...

[2676] I am all in.

[2677] I can't even.

[2678] I would shave for that picture.

[2679] I can't even wrap my head around playing this game as a lady shepherd.

[2680] It's good.

[2681] She's such a bitch.

[2682] I played a little bit of it.

[2683] Or can be.

[2684] I don't know.

[2685] She wasn't a bitch for me. She was my evil shepherd, I guess.

[2686] So for me, she was just terrible.

[2687] She was not having anything, especially with all the men in her life.

[2688] She would shut them down and shoot them in the head.

[2689] I love their voice actors, whoever it is.

[2690] Jennifer Hale.

[2691] Jennifer Hale for the lady.

[2692] Fantastic.

[2693] She's really good.

[2694] The voice work for Lady Shepard is superb.

[2695] You know what bums me out about the dramatic aspect of that game is how wooden and mannequin -like your party members are on most missions.

[2696] When dramatic stuff happens.

[2697] There are so many cases where there is no VO for the party members.

[2698] And they're just kind of idling.

[2699] And they stand there and they always hold their guns straight out in front of them.

[2700] It's sort of the downside of being able to bring any combination of them into the mission.

[2701] It's unfortunate.

[2702] But then when you find the right combinations, if you look upon the right combinations, it is just like a random ass.

[2703] But it's a shame that not every combination yields something.

[2704] Like I brought Miranda on the Shadow Broker mission and Miranda was my lady in my playthrough.

[2705] And Liara was my lady in the first game.

[2706] And my current lady is watching me basically get it on with my former lady saying nothing, and that was sort of like immersion breaking.

[2707] I thought I did have a moment of something where there was a conflict, but I can't quite remember in Shadow Broker.

[2708] I know that in my ship there was turmoil.

[2709] I mean, it's just like the level design issue where you can't record VO forever.

[2710] You can't write enough lines of dialogue to account for every combination of everything that can happen.

[2711] Right.

[2712] But it still sticks out.

[2713] You could.

[2714] They just don't.

[2715] Because it's prohibited.

[2716] Again, if they want to triple the writing staff and hire a bunch more actors and stuff.

[2717] I submit to you the reintroduction of the Normandy.

[2718] One of the...

[2719] Oh, yeah.

[2720] That was pretty good.

[2721] That was awesome.

[2722] That was a great moment.

[2723] That's a great moment in that game.

[2724] That's pretty good.

[2725] Even that weird Joker scene, I didn't mind, running through the ship.

[2726] The banter between Joker and the ship computer was amazing, especially when, what was it that happened?

[2727] I can't remember.

[2728] I think it was when they were taking over the ship and he had to...

[2729] Yeah, especially when they finally realized that they're both not so bad and they come together in the heat of battle.

[2730] I wish more shit had broken loose when I tried to bring Legion into...

[2731] The main city that was the Citadel after it had been attacked by the Geth.

[2732] They're just kind of like, is that your robot?

[2733] All right.

[2734] Cool.

[2735] Well, most of the people there have probably never seen a Geth.

[2736] I wonder if you can bring him onto the migrant fleet.

[2737] Oh, you know what?

[2738] I'm not sure if you can.

[2739] I don't know if you can get him at that point.

[2740] I remember I definitely tried forcing Tali and...

[2741] and Legion together on a couple missions.

[2742] But it doesn't blow up like you think it might.

[2743] So that's another case where some kind of little dramatic flourish would have been appreciated.

[2744] Yeah, I think there's some stuff, but it doesn't explode like you think it might.

[2745] Yeah.

[2746] Take that mask off, though, right?

[2747] Am I right?

[2748] Let's see what's behind the mask, Tally.

[2749] Mass Effect 3.

[2750] You don't.

[2751] I mean, you can get it on with her in this game.

[2752] I'm saying Mass Effect 3.

[2753] Nah, she'd die.

[2754] You don't want that.

[2755] Take one in the face.

[2756] What are you talking about now?

[2757] Take what in the face?

[2758] Tally.

[2759] I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite shop.

[2760] That's right.

[2761] That's all you need to know.

[2762] I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my game of the year.

[2763] All right, done.

[2764] I think either one of these games would be terrific choices, but I do side with Mass Effect 2, ultimately.

[2765] I think StarCraft 2 is incredible, and it's amazing that they made that game the way they made it.

[2766] Because a lot of it seemed kind of dicey for a while there.

[2767] And they started making all kinds of announcements.

[2768] We're just putting this up.

[2769] Oh, yeah.

[2770] Like when they said, we're going to make it three separate games.

[2771] Like, oh.

[2772] They justified it.

[2773] They absolutely justified it.

[2774] They made a more than worthy $60 game.

[2775] And if history is any teacher, for this year, I think Mass Effect 2 is my game of the year.

[2776] I would put money down that people will be playing StarCraft 2.

[2777] Way after they have forgotten about Mass Effect.

[2778] Ten years from now.

[2779] Unless Blizzard accelerates their release schedule for this kind of thing.

[2780] People will be playing this game ten years from now.

[2781] Or if the Command & Conquer reboot overtakes.

[2782] As a set of gameplay mechanisms that interlock with each other that you look at and think, how am I going to put all these things together and participate in this experience?

[2783] It's the best thing released this year.

[2784] I know that sounds really abstract to you guys, but if you got into even spectating the multiplayer to the extent that I have and seen the breadth and the range of possible ways to play this game that are all viable, it is stunning.

[2785] If you're talking about just strictly the mechanical, the underpinnings of the math.

[2786] All the different things that fit together to make a multiplayer match of this game and the things people are doing with those systems.

[2787] And figuring out how to do on a daily basis, it is absolutely stunning.

[2788] Yeah, that's the part I actually really like about it, is every time I talk to you, it sounds like it rewards creative and out -of -the -box thinking.

[2789] And it's changing.

[2790] Yeah, well, that's the thing.

[2791] Because somebody does something really inventive, then everybody else starts doing it, and then it takes somebody else to be really creative to come up with something else.

[2792] There's the concept of the metagame, and at this young stage of the game, or this early stage of the game's life, the metagame is changing every single day.

[2793] It's constantly new.

[2794] It's like a fighting game.

[2795] It is.

[2796] It's very similar, but with the fighting game, each character has three to five moves and a few combos, but any one matchup of two characters has got...

[2797] And also the matches are three minutes long, so only so much can happen in there.

[2798] It's a fighting game stretched out and slowed down.

[2799] I was going to say, it's a fighting game where the matches are 20 minutes long and each character has 30 moves.

[2800] So does this mean that we've got two more years of StarCraft II coming up?

[2801] If they manage to ship another product next year.

[2802] Yeah, I don't think it's two more years of StarCraft coming up.

[2803] I think it's more like three or four before we're done with StarCraft II.

[2804] No, no, I just mean like as a possible game of the year.

[2805] Yeah, I don't know about next year.

[2806] Yeah, so see you again soon, StarCraft II.

[2807] I will be seeing it in a matter of hours.

[2808] So, Brad, are we comfortable?

[2809] I feel like it is our...

[2810] Yeah, I love Mass Effect 2.

[2811] When I finished it in January, I was like, fuck, this is the game of the year.

[2812] I think I remember you saying that and me going like, man, it's going to be a real bummer of a year if that's the case.

[2813] Which is always how I feel whenever a game super early in the year ends up being the best thing.

[2814] It's like, what does it say about the rest of the year that this game that came out in January is still better than the rest of you?

[2815] But also, what does it say about a game that came out in January?

[2816] That still sticks in our game.

[2817] It comes back in December.

[2818] That's great.

[2819] That's how good that game was.

[2820] That's just how good Mass Effect 2 was.

[2821] Yeah.

[2822] Really, yeah, nothing else kept up like that.

[2823] Nope.

[2824] Nothing else maintained over the course of the year.

[2825] Who wants to say it?

[2826] I'm like, Brad, say it.

[2827] Nope.

[2828] I'm not saying it.

[2829] Say it.

[2830] Say you love Satan.

[2831] Emails.

[2832] I'll have a personal top ten going off today, actually.

[2833] Yeah.

[2834] That's where you'll find our real game of the year.

[2835] Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to congratulate Mass Effect 2 as Giant Bombs Game of the Year for 2010.

[2836] Congratulations to all involved in that.

[2837] You've earned it.

[2838] Accolades from a website.

[2839] Good job, everyone.

[2840] Logo you can put on your Game of the Year edition box next year when you release it with all the DLC intact, which actually they're doing for PS3.

[2841] Well, yeah, that's happening.

[2842] I wonder if that'll happen for...

[2843] I wonder if they'll re -release a 360 and PC version at that point.

[2844] Amazon was selling this game on the Xbox 360 for $10 this morning.

[2845] Jesus.

[2846] A value proposition right there.

[2847] Jeff, you want to give us, before we sign off here, our last day, the apex, the exhausting, exhausting apex of our Game of the Year deliberations, what were the categories and who were the winners for today?

[2848] Well, we've got Best Game Room Release, which goes to Food Fight.

[2849] Food Fight!

[2850] Best Motion Controlled Game, Dance Central.

[2851] DC.

[2852] Worst Game of the Year, Power Gig Rise of the Sixth String.

[2853] Boo!

[2854] Most disappointing game, Fable 3.

[2855] Double boo!

[2856] Fart noise.

[2857] Yeah, fart noise.

[2858] Best multi -platform game, Mass Effect 2.

[2859] Woo!

[2860] And game of the year for 2010 overall, Mass Effect 2, along with Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, Red Dead Redemption, StarCraft 2, and Need for Speed Hot Pursuit.

[2861] That's a good party.

[2862] As the runners -up.

[2863] Congratulations to everyone.

[2864] That's not an ordered list.

[2865] That's not an ordered list.

[2866] That is just runners -up.

[2867] Though, by just math, default has to be StarCraft II kind of has to be the number two game on that list.

[2868] The other three, not numbered.

[2869] But more or less kind of has to be the number two.

[2870] Regardless, it's nice to sit down here at the end of the year and kind of appraise things.

[2871] We had our disappointments.

[2872] We had things that were really exciting.

[2873] But to be able to sit here and talk about the good and the bad stuff of all of these kind of top games just reminds me, at least personally, some of the magic moments that can happen with video games.

[2874] Some of the stuff that can just be...

[2875] The best that this format has to offer.

[2876] So I enjoy this process, and I know it's exhausting.

[2877] Today I've not had any more sweat dripped on me, but I sat here for hours having sweat dripped on me. We were sitting in this uncomfortable ass room for like eight hours, and it's still...

[2878] A great experience.

[2879] So I want to thank you guys for taking part in that.

[2880] Yeah, a pleasure.

[2881] I want to thank people for sitting there listening.

[2882] Oh, yeah, anyone who managed to listen to all of this stuff.

[2883] You are the game of the year.

[2884] No, you are.

[2885] You're the game of the year.

[2886] Some eight hours of audio recordings that we've pushed out over these six days, if you've listened to all of them, that's damn impressive, and we deeply appreciate your support.

[2887] If you listen to all those, then like me, you don't spend a lot of time with extended family over the holidays.

[2888] So congratulations.

[2889] You didn't have to spend a lot of time with extended family over the holidays.

[2890] Yeah, that's it for Giant Bomb's Game of the Year 2010.

[2891] Tune in next year for Batman Arkham City versus Uncharted 3.

[2892] Tune in this year.

[2893] Oh, God, it is, isn't it?

[2894] Yeah, it's 2011 already.

[2895] So tune in 11 and a half months from now.

[2896] We'll be back with Giant Bomb's Game of the Year for 2011.

[2897] Until then...

[2898] Yeah, we're going dark.

[2899] Until then, we'll just be playing the games.

[2900] Not really going to say anything about it.

[2901] It's kind of done.

[2902] Enjoy it.

[2903] I don't know how to sign this off.

[2904] Give me a good...

[2905] That's it.

[2906] That concludes it.

[2907] Go play all these games if you haven't yet.

[2908] Yeah, enjoy some video games on our behalf.

[2909] Giant Bob signing off.