316 - Circle of Malice

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hello.

[2] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[3] That's Georgia Hardstark.

[4] Thanks.

[5] That's Karen Kilgareth.

[6] And we're here to podcast at you.

[7] Are you ready?

[8] At you, on you, around you?

[9] Can you do it with us?

[10] Yeah.

[11] Your aura is made of podcasts now.

[12] Yeah.

[13] And we're here for that.

[14] Hi.

[15] What's going on, Karen?

[16] How's your week been?

[17] I mean, you know, nothing stressful.

[18] Nothing like nothing brain.

[19] breaking at all or anything that just makes me stare at my phone all day long.

[20] Yeah.

[21] How about yourself?

[22] Same.

[23] Yeah.

[24] I definitely did a deep die while Vince was sleeping next to me and I was insomnia and then went online to buy disaster preparedness kits.

[25] Do you know you could buy a bucket of fucking fruit's dried food?

[26] Yeah, essentially.

[27] But it comes in a bucket for some reason.

[28] Yeah.

[29] The great Jim Baker, Tammy Faye's X. Oh, yeah.

[30] He's been selling Apocalypse soup on those religious channels for years now.

[31] Apocalypse soup is the best term I've ever.

[32] It's like a prepper concept, I think.

[33] And yeah, I don't, it's the bucket aspect.

[34] Like, yeah, we can just, let's put everything else aside because it, you know, it's upsetting and it's whatever.

[35] Yeah.

[36] Here's how I imagined it.

[37] That soup goes into that bucket in soup form, hot, liquid, and then it's slopped.

[38] It's slopped in there.

[39] And then it gets shipped out to the people that watch Jim Baker's TV show over the hours, days, weeks after it gets slopped in.

[40] Or are you telling me this soup is freeze -dried?

[41] Okay.

[42] Yeah, it's not loose soup.

[43] It's not loose soup.

[44] These words we're using.

[45] It's not a hot.

[46] Bisk.

[47] It's not a hot loose soup.

[48] It's like little.

[49] It's like little.

[50] This doesn't make sense though because it's like packages, individual packages of meals and soup and stuff.

[51] But then they put it in up like there's no reason it needs to be all then put in a bucket unless.

[52] Oh, I know what it is.

[53] What?

[54] You use the bucket as your toilet.

[55] Shit.

[56] Pee that soup right back out.

[57] It's all dark and horrifying.

[58] It is.

[59] And I'm, I don't want to, uh, be one of the many who are like trying to glorify or almost like social mediaify this invasion.

[60] I do have to say the very first moment that basically kind of set the tone was an old lady walking up to the invading army and a soldier, which we all know this at this point.

[61] Now this is legend.

[62] Yeah, yeah.

[63] And she said, you better put some sunflower seeds in your pockets.

[64] So something grows when your dead body is left behind in our land.

[65] Did you know that?

[66] I miss that because I was off everything over the weekend just for my own mental health.

[67] And to keep buying buckets of smart food.

[68] Yeah.

[69] For your mental health, you weren't checking Instagram, but you were buying.

[70] Well, you know what I did?

[71] I go, Vince, figure it out.

[72] Because you know, Vince will be like, I looked into every single one and here's the best one and here's why and this and that.

[73] And so I'm like, you do it.

[74] sure but he's also like chiller than me so he's like got it I'm on it and then like and then he buys a packet of lichten onion soup and is like yep I did what I technically did what you said this will last us 72 hours but I just want I do want to celebrate that badass woman and apparently this is what you Ukrainian people are like yeah because she didn't give a fuck and then when I first read it I thought she was being nice to him him because I didn't understand what she was saying.

[75] And then, of course, as I learned Ukrainian when and then I studied it.

[76] But no, that message of a, of just a woman walking up to a fully armed soldier and being like, well, this is pointless.

[77] You're going down.

[78] And at the very least, you might as well stick some sunflower season your brother.

[79] It's just like, this is pretty fucking unbelievable.

[80] Wow.

[81] I mean, if that's what the old ladies are like in Ukraine, then yeah, fuck.

[82] Then my sister sends me a TikTok this morning of a young lady with, she had gray fingernails and very hip clothing.

[83] And she was showing you how to drive a Russian tank that's been abandoned on the side of the road.

[84] No joke.

[85] She's inside it and she's explaining to you what you, you flip this, you flip this, you do this, you put it into gear.

[86] and she goes ahead and drives the tank away.

[87] Can I tell you how proud of myself up until this point I've been that like, I know how to drive stick?

[88] And then suddenly this chick comes along and she's like, I know how to drive tank.

[89] There's always another level.

[90] This is some genius man said to me, early days of working television, he was a designer and he was so genius.

[91] And I was like, whoa, I didn't even know stuff like that existed.

[92] And he looked at me and goes, oh, there's always another level.

[93] I was just like, fuck, yes.

[94] Yes.

[95] There's always another level.

[96] That's Matrix shit right there.

[97] It's like the goal of life is leveling up.

[98] So, yeah.

[99] Level up, yeah.

[100] Learn how to drive a tank.

[101] That's the point.

[102] What letter is that on your driver's license?

[103] That's a D?

[104] Class T. Class T is when you can drive tanks around.

[105] Yeah.

[106] No, it's very scary.

[107] Let's do some escapism.

[108] The reason that, you know, I'm the one.

[109] one that fucking told Georgia we shouldn't talk about this and then I'm the one that's talking about it in my classic manner.

[110] But it's because we don't want to pretend like it's not happening and it's not scaring the shit out of everybody.

[111] But you get onto these podcasts so that you can escape from reality.

[112] Escape into true crime, which is like you're everyone who knows you is like what is wrong with her that that's her escape.

[113] But like we're here with you.

[114] And that's our escape too.

[115] Yes, it is.

[116] Also, can I ask you, did you get a chance?

[117] to enter into my favorite latest escape now I want to sing love is blind Stefani no what the Tinder swindler oh fuck I then it's like not interested for some reason and we were watching inventing Anna for the past like week with the fucking I gave you very clear homework and you of course in your punk rock style said F you teacher and fuck you man I think you're going to enjoy it.

[118] I know I will.

[119] It's beyond.

[120] Okay.

[121] I'm there.

[122] I'm going to make Vince.

[123] We do this thing.

[124] We're like, I'm not going to like that.

[125] And then 10 minutes in we're like either fuck this forever or we love this.

[126] But isn't that what all of TV watching is like now?

[127] Because you're trying to control the, I'm not going to say vibe because I'm 51.

[128] But you're right.

[129] It's like that, though.

[130] You're trying to continue on what you're already feeling.

[131] Yeah.

[132] Or.

[133] Or level it up a little and, like, feel a little better.

[134] Yep.

[135] Unless you're depressed.

[136] Yeah.

[137] Those true crime dogs in these dark days are difficult because you're like, oh, is anyone going to do anything about this?

[138] Yeah.

[139] But this one has a kind of a, there's kind of a jaunty sociopathy going on in this thing that feels next level in the kooky, like, brand name.

[140] You know those people that just love brand name items?

[141] Versace and Gucci?

[142] And they're just like, I have my, Kate, my Versace purse that everyone knows is Versaic.

[143] It's not subtle at all.

[144] No, no. No, no, no. It has like the letter of the brand all over it.

[145] It's the goofiest shit.

[146] I've always thought it was goofy.

[147] It's just style -wise.

[148] If you like stuff like that, fucking God bless and I don't care.

[149] Yeah.

[150] But when, but honestly, when you see it's driving this person in type, And there's all these, like, selfies where, like, he's wearing the latest, quote -unquote sunglasses, but it's, it looks like someone doing a bad sketch.

[151] Yeah, yeah, like, who would it be?

[152] Like, what's his name?

[153] It has everything.

[154] Bill Hater?

[155] Bill Hater.

[156] I don't know.

[157] It's, it's kooky.

[158] Let's not spend too much time on it because I don't think it deserves it.

[159] But I liked.

[160] Can I actually say another one I liked?

[161] Please.

[162] I have to get, I have to look it up.

[163] because the name is ridiculous.

[164] So the Kristen Bell show, the woman in the house across the street from something, something, something reminded me of naked gun.

[165] And that was really, it was really fun to watch.

[166] Oh, really?

[167] Yeah.

[168] It wasn't like laugh out loud, but it was like giggle -inducing.

[169] And also the story itself, like, carried it through.

[170] So it worked.

[171] I mean, it's a, it's high time that people start making fun of that very specific genre of like troubled lady the first time i think you and i talked about this because the first time i read the i think it was the girl in the window or the woman at whichever there was one of those books and they talk about this girl drinking like it's the craziest shit remember where it's like she gets on the train but she already had a little vodka in her first like vodka in her like sports drink bottle and they're talking about it like she's shooting up where i'm just like hey sorry this is what i used to do every fucking day.

[172] Like this is, she's barely putting in the time of being like a meaningful drunk and you're writing about her.

[173] Who drinks vodka straight?

[174] Like that to me is...

[175] Now, you've got to mix some Gatorade in there so it goes into your bloodstream faster.

[176] Oh, God!

[177] That's what we thought in high school.

[178] There's two friends of the podcast family in it.

[179] Mary Holland, the hilarious comedian who we love.

[180] The best.

[181] The best.

[182] And then also Cameron Britton none other than Ed Kemper Ed Kemper on Mind Hunter He's in it too Playing essentially the same character Yeah so Cameron Britton was in it It's a fun little show to watch I really did like it Oh great Yeah it like it was very naked gun Like airplane style Who doesn't need that shit right now Like yes please Yes please Yeah it's comfy I'd watch it for sure I did tell you to watch it for yes you did and you have and i will and everybody's carrying it and doing it um i can't i keep trying to watch like uh shows on PBS but that are from other countries and i'm like uh yes i'm going to really dig in and i truly can't keep my eyes off my phone to read the subtitles i just keep doing that over and over again it's very frustrating I've said it before and I'll say it again I said it recently two fat ladies on YouTube the cooking show is so highly enjoyable and so like at the end of every episode they're out sipping martinis and one of them is fucking chain smoking like they're just the best women I love it so much it's like a pallet cleanser at the end of the night if you've been watching true crime all day oh yeah that's we watched that show real time when it was on in the 80s because it was on PBS and my dad those guys and there were some local chefs.

[183] We watched a, that just reminds me so much of like that early 80s, like cuisine.

[184] Yes, cuisine.

[185] Cuisine and quiches and the trend of cuisine.

[186] And it wasn't like a beautiful kitchen.

[187] It was like back behind, and the cook station at a restaurant.

[188] Yeah.

[189] With like tons of stainless steel.

[190] It wasn't like, here's a beautifully manicured kitchen.

[191] No. It was like, here's how you make it.

[192] You get to have this.

[193] You're going to be the French chef now.

[194] Yeah.

[195] You should plate it like this, and that's the end of it.

[196] It is.

[197] Yeah, I can't think of anything else.

[198] I'm either.

[199] Just doing a lot of staring.

[200] A lot of stuff.

[201] It's that kind of time in our lives where it's just like a lot of staring, a lot of eating.

[202] Eating, staring.

[203] Also, the weather changed.

[204] And this is, it's so truly boring to talk about weather.

[205] But in Los Angeles, it has been like, all over the map of what we're doing, what season we're in.

[206] And suddenly today it was spring, the end, 82.

[207] It was fucking 90.

[208] Oh, over here, it was fucking 90, like 90.

[209] Sorry, everyone.

[210] Cold, but, you know, you should just move, probably.

[211] You know, Vince has told me that, like, I was like, maybe we'll move to Ann Arbor one day or something.

[212] Like, and he's just like, Georgia, you will not be able to handle six months out of it.

[213] Like, he, there's no way I could handle six months out of it.

[214] of the year in Michigan.

[215] You know how you could do that?

[216] You start in Alaska and you get, you just go.

[217] Miserable.

[218] Yep.

[219] The worst, the highest level of it.

[220] And then you bring it down to.

[221] Oh, this is mild compared to fucking Alaska.

[222] No white nights in Ann Arbor?

[223] Great.

[224] Perfect.

[225] There probably are.

[226] What's a white night?

[227] White nights are that it's some time of year where this sun never goes down.

[228] Well, you know, I went to Alaska.

[229] once to Homer, and it was daytime until 10 p .m. Yeah.

[230] It was the trippiest thing.

[231] Yep.

[232] Because you're way up there by the sun.

[233] You're way right next to the sun.

[234] Anyway.

[235] All right.

[236] Quick exactly right highlights Alex and Elizabeth of the true beauty, Brooklyn podcast.

[237] They're continuing their discussion.

[238] So it's part two of all you'll ever need to know, Karen, about eyebrows.

[239] Yes.

[240] There's literally two parts to that, which, like, I want to know what there is to know.

[241] Well, these days, there's so much more than usual because there's, I mean, I'm a little bit obsessed with it, like, people getting the, um, is it microblading?

[242] They're getting those big old eyebrows tattooed.

[243] I feel like as a person who's really gone through almost every phase of eyebrow style.

[244] Uh -huh.

[245] And I know that those tattoos do fade.

[246] Well, not as much as they should, I feel like.

[247] Especially for the style.

[248] It's like this style won't last.

[249] Right.

[250] The style was very large and also like very close together in the middle, which I almost, remember I asked you backstage once?

[251] Should I get eyebrow blading and you were like abs a fucking looting not.

[252] Don't do that.

[253] Thank you.

[254] Thank you, by the way.

[255] You're welcome.

[256] Yeah.

[257] I want to know about eyebrows.

[258] Only because, but here's why I say that, because when I was 12 years old, I noticed that I had basically this starting of a unibrow and that by myself in the bathroom at Jerry Batanti's house because I was being babysit after school.

[259] I started plucking my eyebrows and that's how I plucked this one all the way back to the middle of my eye.

[260] Like I just kept going because I was like, oh no, there's too much.

[261] One more, one more.

[262] And it was like, my sister and I said to Nora every day from when she was eight years old on, never touch your own eyebrows.

[263] We will take you to get them whenever you want to get them done.

[264] We will take.

[265] And she would always be like, what are you talking about?

[266] Because I was so afraid once you fuck your eyebrows up, once you pluck them like that, they come back in weird.

[267] So like, maybe that's just me and my old self -talking.

[268] But if you mess with them in any other direction.

[269] Yeah.

[270] Yes.

[271] But I guess I just mean making big swings in the eyebrow department, it gives me pause.

[272] And I want other people to also have pause.

[273] Because you're not always going to be wearing mom jeans and a half sweatshirt.

[274] No. We shaved ours in the 90s.

[275] Can you imagine us walking around now?

[276] Look at Drew Barrymore photos from the 90s who was the only person who looked good with that style.

[277] The shave drawn back on.

[278] The Clara Bow look was rough.

[279] And for the.

[280] those of us on speed, it made perfect sense for what you did all morning longs, pluck your eyebrows.

[281] Yeah.

[282] But man, yeah, it was, it didn't hold up later.

[283] So that's our message to you is to listen to True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast.

[284] Well, they might have, you know what, are we estheticians?

[285] No. Are we professionals?

[286] I went to three months of beauty school.

[287] That's not enough.

[288] You didn't get that license.

[289] You're so close.

[290] And you could go back with your credits.

[291] I'm just saying.

[292] Don't think so.

[293] Okay.

[294] Is 20 years the limit?

[295] I don't know.

[296] What's the statute of limitations?

[297] Okay.

[298] This week on That's Messed Up in SVU podcast, the guest is none other than Jacqueline Smith.

[299] Oh.

[300] If you are anywhere near my age, you know she was one of the OG Charlie's Angels.

[301] She was a guest star on SVU Season 11, episode 18, and she is on Kara and Lisa's podcast talking to them.

[302] to their face about her career and her time on Law & Order.

[303] She's amazing.

[304] There's no way she wasn't on an episode of Love Boat, right?

[305] Oh, she might, every one of those.

[306] Also, every shampoo commercial.

[307] Like, she sold me shampoo in my deepest, the deepest part of my subconscious.

[308] She's there.

[309] Tresome.

[310] Was that it?

[311] I don't know.

[312] Sounds right.

[313] Tresomey.

[314] Yeah, something fake front.

[315] She was involved in.

[316] Gina Tresome.

[317] Okay.

[318] And then on lady to lady, the ladies are joined by actor and the very popular food TikToker, which I freaking love.

[319] Katie Mulanero.

[320] She's at Eat It Katie.

[321] And I, you know, I'm obsessed with food bloggers and peopleers.

[322] How are you a food TikTok?

[323] How is one a food TikToker?

[324] You make food on TikTok.

[325] Correct.

[326] I'm saying.

[327] TikTok before very recently was all about real short clips, right?

[328] So, like, if you were going to do a recipe in 30 seconds, is that just a ton of editing as you cook?

[329] I'm 41.

[330] Steven!

[331] Stephen!

[332] Well, how does TikTok work?

[333] Stephen, you're 12.

[334] Yeah, I'm too old for this, too.

[335] Yeah.

[336] I'm turning 35 this year.

[337] Oh, yeah, you're done.

[338] Okay.

[339] All right, everyone let us know how the fuck TikTok works.

[340] I mean, I know, first of all, go listen to Lady.

[341] lady and I bet you'll find out you'll find out through Katie Molinaro but I also want to know because I do know my sister sent me recipes where it really is like super sped up chopping and yeah well I follow the Reddit page stupid food which is just joyful and they just show a lot of bad TikTok like there's this trend right now where they the kitchen island you know it's beautiful marble everyone lives in beautiful fucking houses all these influencers and they make countertop nachos.

[342] So they spread everything all over the fucking countertop where nobody wants to fucking eat it.

[343] I heard that was fake.

[344] I heard that was invented to get clicks and to get people upset.

[345] Yes, there's another one of those where they make cotton candy in the dryer.

[346] And it is so disgusting.

[347] It is heinous, heinous.

[348] And I think a lot of those where they'll be like, the biggest fucking grilled cheese in the world.

[349] Like a lot of those are like to piss people off.

[350] But that one specifically, it works.

[351] It's on stupid food on Reddit, the subreddit.

[352] You know who else is on it a lot is Salt Bay?

[353] That guy, because people buy these like tomahawk steaks and they get it covered in that gold paper, edible gold.

[354] And so it's like a $3 ,000 fucking tomahawk steak because it has gold, which doesn't.

[355] taste like anything and you're just going to shit it out excuse me you're going to shit it out anyways but it's like but salt bay delivers it to your table it's like so obnoxious it's a conspicuous consumption it's like look how rich we are that we're just being insanely insanely rich and wasteful yeah look long time listeners we've got some classic mfm logo march for you in the merch store so go check out all of that the old stuff from back in the day.

[356] I feel like we do so much cool new stuff now that we just need the actual logo and the cool fucking classic.

[357] We need to give everybody everything all the time.

[358] Any want should be absolutely met immediately.

[359] But how insane is it that we're old?

[360] Like we're old enough.

[361] We've been around long enough to actually have classic merch.

[362] It's like we could put out a best of album where you're like, you've only been around for fucking Brittany.

[363] It's like however long and you're putting out a best of?

[364] hell yeah we are pretty cool i mean that's just about commerce that's just about demand supply and demand if people demand the old merch or who are we to say now whom are we who there but for the grace of god go we that's right and our merch and stuff like that should we start this thing off and also my favorite murder dot com but yes yes let's do it go let's give people the true crime relief they need from the reality of the world.

[365] Everyone take a deep breath.

[366] Let's get into the distraction time.

[367] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[368] Absolutely.

[369] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[370] Exactly.

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[385] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[386] Goodbye.

[387] Let's escape into the 90s.

[388] Okay.

[389] This is a story that came up.

[390] I referenced it a couple weeks ago and then I said to you right to your face, I'm going to do this one now I'm doing it love it you I warned you and now it came back for vengeance this is and to have just read through it I am shot I lived through this I watched it go down in real time and and then reading through it I was just like what this is the story of the Long Island Lolita the attempted murder of Mary Jo Budapuco by the coward Amy Fisher So 37 -year -old housewife and mother of two, Mary Jo Bodafuko of Long Island, New York, answers a knock on the door and finds a 17 -year -old girl that she doesn't know standing in front of her.

[391] This girl tells Mary Jo that her name is Anne -Marie and that her sister, who's a 16 -year -old, is having an affair with Mary Jo's husband, Joey.

[392] So Mary Jo looks and sees that there's a car idling out front.

[393] and that there's a boy inside.

[394] So she asks, quote, unquote, Anne -Marie, who he is.

[395] Anne -Marie says that that's her boyfriend and quickly changes the subject back to this supposed affair.

[396] To prove this is the truth, she holds up a t -shirt from Joey's auto body shop, complete auto body and fender, ink.

[397] And then she says, Joey gave it to her sister.

[398] So she's basically holding that up, like, here's your proof right here.

[399] Weird.

[400] Right?

[401] Mary Jo not only does not believe her but she gets pissed of course and all told the two women talk on this front porch for about 15 minutes so she clearly listened to her heard her out you know kind of indulge this a little bit finally Mary Jo tells Anne Marie get off my property I'm going to go call my husband about this and you know if they're knowing that they're on Long Island and based on some of the interviews that I've seen It's a good chance they told each other to fuck off.

[402] I would hope.

[403] I would hope Mary Jo told her to fuck off.

[404] Yeah.

[405] But before Mary Jo can turn and go back inside her house, Anne Marie pulls out a 25 caliber semi -automatic pistol and wax Mary Jo on the back of the head with it, stunning her.

[406] She hits Mary Jo with the gun a second time and knocks her to the ground.

[407] Then she aims the gun at Mary Jo's head and fires.

[408] my god that's so this is so crazy i have not read about this since it happened in the 90s because i was then too and i figured i know the whole story blah blah blah i mean it was a huge tabloid story it was gigantic you couldn't get away from it it was the only story around you you heard about it every single day yeah everywhere and it became after a while it became breaking news because then additional things happened but this this um first initial of attack, which from almost the beginning of this story, and there's a lot of, I don't, you know, there's a lot of very interesting things that I'm sure much smarter people than me can break down about, you know, basically the, the journalism piece of this, and the media frenzy piece of this.

[409] And the way it took, both of these women just, you know, took them for all they had, basically.

[410] and just it was while he kind of, while the husband just kind of walked around and was like, hey, what's the problem?

[411] And also, sorry, it's amazing.

[412] The 17 -year -old factor of it, I think, would be treated very differently today.

[413] One would hope.

[414] Oh, my God.

[415] I mean, like, even just reading this and reading it and reading Jay's research, he did an amazing job.

[416] But I was, it was just like, this couldn't, like the way this was treated and the way this was discussed and the way it all went down is so disgusting yeah and so um so not okay and i mean like yeah it's it's pretty amazing but but the idea that this woman was shot point blank Mary Jo Bonifoco shot point blank at her on her doorstep in attempted murder essentially is fucking beyond that alone is beyond okay so okay so then we'll call her anne -marie for the time being but we all know this is amy fisher um anne marie drops the gun and the t -shirt that she was holding up and runs back to her boyfriend's car the the kid yells at her going you left all that stuff behind so then she has to run back up grab the gun and the t -shirt and then get back into the car speed off leaving mary joe buttafuco bleeding out and as far as she knows, dead on the front porch.

[417] So thank God, three of Mary Joes' neighbors heard this gunshot, and they came running over to find that she is still alive, actually.

[418] They call 911.

[419] The ambulance arrives minutes later.

[420] She gets rushed to the ER at Nassau Community Medical Center.

[421] The doctors immediately take her into surgery.

[422] They work through the night.

[423] She's in surgery for eight hours.

[424] they cannot remove the bullet from her skull that's actually gone through and down and is lodged in her spine but they are able to stabilize her when she wakes up the doctors and she all discover half of her face is paralyzed and she is partially deaf in one ear so in the meantime the police find Joey her husband Joey Botafuko they bring him in for questioning.

[425] There's no evidence tying him to this shooting, but police want to know who might have done it and why.

[426] And Joey points them to two people that he thinks might be involved.

[427] One is a man named Paul Minkley and then Paul's girlfriend, Amy Fisher.

[428] Okay.

[429] Joey tells the police that Paul is in drugs.

[430] He owes dangerous people money and that Paul borrowed money from his girlfriend, Amy.

[431] and because Joey claims to be a friend of Amy's, he's 36 and she's 16 years old.

[432] He advised her not to lend it to him.

[433] So he believes that when Paul heard that he, Joey, told Amy not to lend Paul the money, that Paul got mad about that and decided to retaliate against Joey's family.

[434] So let's take that from the top.

[435] Okay.

[436] Paul, oh, no, just kidding.

[437] But can you imagine the, like, investigator that's sitting in that room with him, like, okay, that's your story?

[438] Yeah, yeah.

[439] That's your story.

[440] Okay.

[441] So when Mary Jo regains consciousness, the next day, it's May 20th, 1992, investigators ask her if she can remember what happened.

[442] And she describes what this teenage girl, Anne -Marie, look like and what her boyfriend, with the car, she remembers everything.

[443] Oh, my God.

[444] That's crazy that she still has her complete memory.

[445] from that moment.

[446] Yep.

[447] She tells them all about it.

[448] And then when they show her a photo of Amy Fisher, she immediately identifies her as her shooter.

[449] Amazing.

[450] So now that they know that the whole Anne -Marie, Anne -Marie doesn't exist, that because Joey Botafogo admitted to being quote -unquote friends with Amy Fisher, they now know he's involved in this somehow.

[451] It's starting to look like he is basically knows a lot more than he's letting on to the police.

[452] So let's do a little bit of history here about the people that we're talking about.

[453] So Amy Fisher, she was born August 21st, 1974.

[454] She was an only child.

[455] She was born and raised on Long Island, very close with her mother, but has a strained relationship with her father.

[456] According to Amy, he's a very angry man who scares her.

[457] She tries her best to stay out of his way.

[458] And she also would later go on to say that.

[459] her upbringing was traumatic.

[460] She was sexually abused by an unnamed family member throughout her childhood.

[461] And then this is very triggering.

[462] 1987, she was only 13 years old when a contractor who had been hired to work on the Fisher's home rapes Amy in her bedroom.

[463] So a lot of trauma in her childhood.

[464] But despite all of this, she is a very social person.

[465] She has tons of friends, several close friends.

[466] she hangs out with regularly, and by all intents and purposes, is doing, you know, having a good time in school.

[467] Then one day in May of 1991, she's 16 years old.

[468] She's pulling her car out of the garage.

[469] She accidentally scrapes her rearview mirror against the garage wall and knocks it off.

[470] And she's so scared about how mad her dad's going to be.

[471] She decides she needs to take it to an auto body shop herself.

[472] and try to get it fixed and try to see if she can not have to tell her dad about it.

[473] Yeah.

[474] So she ends up going to complete auto body and fender ink in the Long Island town of Baldwin.

[475] And that's where she meets the shop owner, Joey Bodefouca.

[476] Wow.

[477] So she's convinced that she can get her car fixed and basically that her dad will never know about it if she can just get it done quickly.

[478] But when Joey quotes her the price, she cannot afford it.

[479] and she breaks down.

[480] She explains that she can't go to her parents for the money because her dad will lose his mind.

[481] Joey calms her down and tells her to just say that someone else side swiped to the car.

[482] And then it won't be her fault.

[483] It'll take the blame off of her.

[484] And then her parents will pay for the repairs.

[485] Yeah.

[486] So that's exactly what she does.

[487] She goes home and tells her parents that lie.

[488] Her dad buys it.

[489] He agrees to go back with Amy to the shop to pay for.

[490] for the repairs.

[491] And while they're there, Amy starts to notice how smooth and charming Joey is, dealing with her very uptight, angry father.

[492] So she takes an interest in him.

[493] So over the course of the next couple weeks, Amy dings her car several times on purpose.

[494] Oh, I mean, if they had been a great couple, that would have been cute, right?

[495] Yes, but doesn't this remind you of the sociopath test?

[496] Which part?

[497] Isn't it the thing where it's like, I'm going to see this person again if someone else dies?

[498] She's wrecking her own car just so she can, maybe she's just scratching it or whatever.

[499] But it points to the, the unbelievability of this story in the first place.

[500] If she's so fucking scared that her dad's going to lose his shit on her, which is her story, then why would she keep dinging and taking it back?

[501] why wouldn't she just go back and figure out some other non -risky reason?

[502] Here's why.

[503] She's 16.

[504] Yeah, but yeah.

[505] But I think that I think she's, I think it's a lie.

[506] I think that like there's a bit of consulate.

[507] I mean, who knows?

[508] But what I'm saying is it's the storyline.

[509] You're setting it up that she's so scared to death.

[510] And then suddenly she's now doing the thing that she was quote unquote so scared to do because she's actually not scared at all.

[511] that's my yeah pure editorialism but anyway the point being uh joey doesn't mind the attention they start flirting and basically beginning an incredibly appropriate borderline pedophilic relationship because she's 16 and he's 36 he's 36 yeah so then on july 2nd amy goes to the um auto body shop once again to have a new stereo system installed in her car.

[512] I guess she has money now.

[513] Okay.

[514] After the appointment, Joey ends up driving her home.

[515] He goes inside with her and this is the first time they sleep together.

[516] She's 16 years old.

[517] So this qualifies a statutory rape because New York's age of consent is 17.

[518] So for the next few weeks, Amy and Joey are meeting up at motels to have this affair and of course no one no one knows but them yeah yeah so about two weeks after this first encounter um and amy gets a rash she goes to the doctor finds out she has contracted an STD from her new lover joey but because it's this medical issue she tells her parents about it and so at this point she doesn't say where she got it though she just she just tells her parents about it.

[519] She's not like, hey, remember that mechanic?

[520] So at this point, she's completely under his spell, and she's very afraid.

[521] She knows that he could get arrested by having this affair with her, and she's trying to protect him.

[522] Okay, so the next month, August, Amy is going to turn 17.

[523] So now this illicit, an illegal affair is now at least legal, although exploitative and gross.

[524] So Amy gets a job at the Sunrise Mall in Massapequa.

[525] She's fired after a month.

[526] So she goes to Joey to confide in him about how she needs money to finish off paying her car.

[527] And according to her, he convinces her to look into starting sex work.

[528] Oh, wow.

[529] He hooks her up with an escort agency called Abba Escorts.

[530] She didn't particularly want to do it, but she is desperate enough for money that she ends up joining this escort service.

[531] in September of 1991.

[532] So basically, as you would expect, this kind of lifestyle change to do, she's basically consumed with this affair she's having with Joey.

[533] She's consumed with, like, her sex work.

[534] So her grades are dropping.

[535] She's not talking to her friends.

[536] Like, her life is changing.

[537] She also starts fantasizing that she's going to end up with Joey.

[538] Right.

[539] But she knows he's still married to his wife.

[540] And he often complains about Mary Jo to Amy and tells her that he's unhappy in his marriage and that he loves being with her, being with Amy.

[541] So by November of that year, she's sick of waiting for him to come around.

[542] Literally, it's been like three months, but she's already like enough.

[543] Yeah.

[544] She gives him an ultimatum and says, it's either your wife or me. And Joey chooses Mary Jo.

[545] Right.

[546] So Amy has a breakdown.

[547] She attempts suicide.

[548] And basically, she tells her mother that it's about a boy her own age.

[549] And that's what happened.

[550] Her mom helps her pick up the pieces.

[551] And she basically, you know, decides to continue on.

[552] During the winter of 1991, she starts a new relationship with a man named Paul Makely.

[553] He's a co -owner of a gym.

[554] in Massapequa called Future Physique.

[555] And even though she's dating Paul, she's still obsessed with Joey.

[556] So she starts reaching out to him again.

[557] And even though she went through a really horrible thing over him, she basically gets back together with him.

[558] So by January of 1992, they're back together.

[559] Joey, she tells Joey that she's dating Paul and Joey gets jealous.

[560] but since, you know, Joey's still with Mary Jo, then Amy feels like that's her counter to that.

[561] Right.

[562] But whenever the subject of Paul comes up, Amy assures Joey that he means nothing to her.

[563] Yeah.

[564] That she really only wants to be with her 36 -year -old boyfriend who got her into sex work.

[565] God.

[566] Yeah, it's dark.

[567] So basically, Amy becomes obsessed with the fact that Joey will not leave his wife and chooses his wife over her.

[568] So on May 13th, 1992, Amy and her friend, Jane, are at a salon, and they start talking about, Jane is talking about her boyfriend troubles and saying how she knows her boyfriend's cheating on her with this girl and that she wishes she could just, quote, get a gun and go blow that girl's head off.

[569] And with that, Amy tells Jane, that's what she's going to do to marry Jane.

[570] Joe.

[571] So that's like that they can pinpoint it to the day that she first started thinking about this.

[572] Amy asks her friend Jane if she knows where she can get a gun.

[573] And Jane suggests they're a friend and mutual acquaintance, an auto part salesman, PDG.

[574] His name is Peter Gugentie, Gugenti.

[575] Okay.

[576] But we'll call him PDG.

[577] Petey.

[578] PDG.

[579] So according to Amy's later account, she goes to Joey and tells him about her plan to kill Mary Jo and Amy says that he encourages this plan he would later deny that that conversation ever took place but according to Amy she went to him with this plan and he agreed and liked the plan what do you think happened I mean it's really hard to say because I feel like the story I feel like Amy Fisher was a pariah from the second like this started so nothing on her side of things will ever look like genuine or like she was trying or she there's she's never going to seem like the innocent victim ever.

[580] So if he tells some story about how she was obsessed with him and she told him she was going to do this and all this stuff you know or other people do of her friend Jane made money by going and being interviewed by you know some place and tell that story.

[581] I mean like who knows.

[582] Because it's it's hearsay, right?

[583] They're both unreliable narrators.

[584] So it's like yeah, but neither are believable which makes it really hard.

[585] And it's kind of like it reminds me of the second season of Dirty John which was about the woman, the 80s woman whose husband left Her name is like synonymous with like, Betty Broderick.

[586] Thank you, Betty Broderick.

[587] You know that one?

[588] Oh, it's so good.

[589] But it makes me think of that where like when we first heard about Betty Broderick.

[590] Yeah.

[591] She was just a lunatic woman who murdered her ex and his new wife.

[592] And then when you watch like season two, a dirty John, you're just like, oh my God, she was driven.

[593] She was driven insane.

[594] She was, you know, there's, there are steps before someone does that.

[595] So, like, there are steps before Amy Fisher as a 16 -year -old was standing on that porch shooting Mary Jo Badafouca, but does that it doesn't always mean that that means they're innocent or that they were driven to that.

[596] Like, it's just, I would never know.

[597] I would, I don't know.

[598] It doesn't mean they're not culpable for their actions.

[599] And I feel like living through a news event like this, you just.

[600] this story like on day three and never looked back I did sure sure yeah I mean I was I was 22 so I wasn't paying a ton of attention of anyone besides myself and I was 12 so I didn't understand a lot of it but yeah it's pretty mind -blowing too because it it's a level of obsession where you're just like oh you just went and as a teenager murdered attempted to murder someone in cold blood to their like on their front porch with chill who has children yeah a mother of two and like other than as far as that woman knew just an average wife wife and mother like so innocent yeah yeah it's really awful yeah so two days after that discussion joey pages amy and according to amy they get on the phone and he asks her whether or not she got the gun yet or not.

[601] Oh.

[602] So she says she hasn't, but then two days later, she hears from PDG, and he says he's got a gun for her.

[603] He tells her to steal license plates from a random car, and then she and PDG put those stolen license plates on his Thunderbird, and then she and PDG are the ones who drive over.

[604] I love that they change the license plate, but they bring the most obvious car.

[605] Like, get a fucking Oldsmobile.

[606] Yeah, no. A thunderbird.

[607] A thunderbird.

[608] Come on.

[609] But I bet they're a dime a dozen in Long Island.

[610] Yeah, maybe.

[611] That was just what was there.

[612] But also it's, this is not a well thought out plan by any stretch.

[613] I'm giving them too much credit.

[614] Yeah.

[615] Because if it wasn't the Thunderbird, it would be every other thing they did.

[616] Right.

[617] Including her dropping the gun and the T -shirt.

[618] Yeah.

[619] Like nothing about this.

[620] all the things is a is a good smart plan or anything and you can like we can keep flipping that card where it's like so either she was obsessed with this man who got her into sex work and basically said yeah you should you should go kill my wife go get a gun and like pressure into it as according to her or the flip side of that which is that she was obsessed and and was basically wouldn't let it go and wasn't going to let anything stop her from quote unquote having her man even though she was at this point literal 17 her man because she was she was 18 a child 18 she was a teen it's correct a man yeah but I mean all of this is like it is that yeah it just is like we're talking about statutory stuff or whatever where it's like you don't mess with teenagers they're not they don't don't know how to be in the world.

[621] This is a girl who has, if nothing else we know, has been through serious trauma and can't handle shit.

[622] Yeah.

[623] Can't handle this.

[624] It reminds me of the podcast, Teacher's Pet, that first season.

[625] That was so incredible.

[626] That was just like, oh, this guy is manipulating every situation he's in.

[627] Yeah.

[628] I mean, Jesus Christ.

[629] Yeah.

[630] Horrifying.

[631] Okay.

[632] Okay.

[633] So then they do their license plate thing.

[634] And then the morning of May 19th, at around 1130, they drive to the Buttafoucos.

[635] So that's basically what kind of got us there, what let it up.

[636] Yeah.

[637] What led up.

[638] So now we're back in the hospital with Mary Jo.

[639] It's May 20th.

[640] And Mary Jo's identified Amy Fisher as her shooter.

[641] So the police stake out her house and to go arrest her.

[642] but they surveil it for a full day they see no sign of Amy they get impatient so they ask Joey to call her and to see where she's at.

[643] He's hesitant at first but then he does it.

[644] She tells him she's actually at home and that then basically police know that they can go in and they basically go and arrest her at her home on May 21st, 1992.

[645] So during her interrogation, Amy finds out that Joey's the one who told the police where she was.

[646] She's of course devastated by this betrayal.

[647] So then she tells police Joey's the one who gave her the gun and that she didn't want to shoot Mary Jo and that the gun just went off by accident.

[648] She reveals that she and Joey have been having an affair and she claims that Joey wanted Amy to get rid of his wife for him.

[649] So after she names Joey as the one who gave her the gun, the police bring him in again for questioning.

[650] He swears up and down that Amy is lying about his involvement.

[651] involvement.

[652] Investigators have no evidence that tied Joey to the shooting, but they are digging around into his history with Amy.

[653] And of course, he fears that it's only a matter of time before they find out the proof that this was a statutory rape because she was sleeping with her before her 17th birthday.

[654] He denies any illegal romantic involvement with her.

[655] And at this point, Mary Jo believes him and is, solidly in his corner.

[656] Oh.

[657] Yes.

[658] Sweet baby angel.

[659] Because what else is she supposed to do?

[660] How easy is it for her to believe this crazy girl just walked up and shot me in the head at my door.

[661] Yeah.

[662] So, and if my husband's looking me in the eye and going, I have no idea.

[663] I never slept with this woman.

[664] Then she's there in the hospital, like with a bullet in her neck going.

[665] Either you believe him or your whole world is.

[666] a lie.

[667] And the only evidence she showed was a shirt that anyone could get probably from his mechanics office.

[668] I don't know.

[669] Yes.

[670] Totally.

[671] So, yeah, for sure.

[672] Anyway.

[673] Yeah.

[674] Because a lot of people get upset.

[675] Of course, of course, as this story unfolds.

[676] People judge Mary Jo Bodefouca and like you know, have all kinds of shit to say about her when she's the fucking one who got shot in the head.

[677] And had no idea about her husband's character or had if she did like who the fuck knows but none of it she's the fucking innocent goddamn victim she's the innocent victim on top of which you know this is a teenage girl so it's not just your husband's having a fair right it's your husband is like having a fair breaking the law and is exploitive creep a predator he's a predator yeah and you have to admit that about that's tough and she has two daughters, like you don't want to think that your husband is a predator.

[678] I mean, Jesus.

[679] Okay.

[680] So, so on May 29th, Amy Fisher is indicted by a grand jury on multiple charges, including attempted murder in the second degree, criminal use of a firearm in the first degree, armed felony and assault.

[681] She pleads not guilty to all charges, and her bail hearing is scheduled for June 2nd of that year.

[682] So, of course, to say there was a media frenzy, is an understatement of the century.

[683] Local, national news, they call, everybody's calling Amy the Long Island, Lolita.

[684] Right.

[685] It's just like known.

[686] And friends and acquaintances of Amy's, they're all interviewed by local and national news over and over again.

[687] No one paints Amy in a good light.

[688] They highlight her history of poor grades, reckless behavior, sex work, et cetera.

[689] But who among us?

[690] Who am I?

[691] Truly.

[692] for it's just like I will I will never hold up in a looking back on her life report ever my god can you imagine I mean it's yeah it's just ridiculous and it really sucks and it's what happens to women every single time yeah meanwhile they're not talking about the guy that had the affair with the 17 she has a fucking nickname why isn't this motherfucker have a fucking nickname yeah and like I mean unless she was Like, the underage person's name wouldn't be put in the news today unless it was, they were being tried in as adult.

[693] I mean, in a perfect world, obviously that doesn't happen.

[694] Right.

[695] You know.

[696] No, no, it's, mishandled is one way to say it.

[697] Yeah.

[698] And then, can I just say also calling her Lolita, like Lolita was a fucking victim of a fucking pedophile, you know, that character in the book.

[699] Right.

[700] So, but here's a catchy name and you're calling her that without even.

[701] and realizing that she's a fucking victim of a predator.

[702] It's all dirty, gross, and salacious and absolutely what sells all newspapers.

[703] Okay, so then on June 1st, the night before Amy's bail hearing, an old John of Amy's releases a sex tape that he recorded during one of their nights together.

[704] Do you remember this part of it?

[705] No, I don't remember.

[706] I think my mom was like probably realized what was happening.

[707] Oh, yeah.

[708] And I was 11 or 12 and it was like shutting off the TV.

[709] Yes.

[710] This story is so, it's so salacious and so crazy.

[711] And again, we're talking about a teenager that this, this sex tape got released.

[712] Child pornography.

[713] It's, yeah.

[714] So then when Amy's bail hearing comes around the next day, the prosecuting attorney tries to convince the judge to deny Amy's bail altogether.

[715] Um, they end up setting it at a whopping two million dollars for at the, at the time that that was like crazy high.

[716] Amy's defense attorney tries to get the bail amount lowered, managing to get a second bail hearing a couple days later, but the judge will not budge on it.

[717] Amy Fisher is unable to afford the record breaking amount of bail that has been said.

[718] So she is now behind bars until a trial date is set.

[719] So as she sits in jail, her reputation, completely.

[720] completely ruined.

[721] Joey Botafuko walks around a free man. In June of that year, he even goes on the Howard Stern show.

[722] Oh, yeah.

[723] Yeah, after Amy's bail hearing to talk about how he had never had any type of affair with her whatsoever.

[724] Bullshit.

[725] Yeah.

[726] He also claims to be a completely innocent man. And at this point, no one has any evidence to prove otherwise.

[727] But a little over two months into her imprisonment, Amy gets a lucky break.

[728] A company called KLM Productions, teams up with International Fidelity Insurance Company, and they raise Amy's $2 million bail.

[729] Wow.

[730] Right.

[731] Well, they offer to bail her out in exchange for exclusive rights to her story.

[732] She agrees her bail's paid, and she's free to live at home until while her legal process continues.

[733] and at the same time the police investigation is continuing authorities now setting their sights on paul mackley they believe that paul may have been the getaway driver but when eyewitness accounts rule paul out further interviews lead police to pdg our boy pdg right pdg admits having supplied amy the gun and they later find that gun in a gutter near Amy's house.

[734] So Amy's defense attorney works with the prosecution to come up with a plea bargain.

[735] They are confident that Joey Bodefouca, despite his claims of innocence, committed statutory rape with having that relationship with Amy.

[736] So they agree that if Amy cooperates with the investigation into Joey, she can plead to a lesser charge of first -degree assault and face five to 15 years in jail.

[737] Wow.

[738] So on September 23rd, Amy takes that deal.

[739] And of course, the Buttafookas are furious, especially Mary Jo Batafuko.

[740] Yeah.

[741] So now PDG is in legal jeopardy because now he's pulled into everything.

[742] And he sees that Amy cut a deal for herself.

[743] So he releases yet another newer sex tape with Amy.

[744] Yeah.

[745] He releases it to.

[746] the show hard copy.

[747] And in that tape, Amy makes statements that further damage her character.

[748] Yeah.

[749] Basically, the video was taken exactly in the time between her being released on bail and her accepting the plea bargain.

[750] And in it, she's heard saying that she wants to marry Peter so they can have conjugal visits and that she wants her, quote, name in the press.

[751] She says, I want my name in the press.

[752] Why?

[753] Because I can make a lot of money.

[754] I figure if I'm going through all this pain and suffering, I'm getting a Ferrari, is the quote.

[755] Hey, what's up?

[756] I'm 17 and the things I want are Ferraris.

[757] And yeah, and all of this is like a weird, made up fake thing that I'm just kind of trying to get through.

[758] Or you're a sociopath, but who the fuck isn't at 17?

[759] I mean.

[760] or yeah or just this is worst case scenario for a person like that it's so crazy but a person is marred by trauma yes um so of course this is yet another betrayal amy's traumatized by she attempts suicide again this time uh she takes an overdose of tranquilizers but uh she's found in time she gets her stomach pumped and she survives so her sentencing hearing takes place on december 1st 1992 and she's sentenced to 15 years, but she winds up serving seven and was released in 1999.

[761] PDG is tried in sentenced to six months for getting the gun for Amy.

[762] And as for Joey Buttafuoco, the DA makes an announcement in October of 1992 saying they're not pursuing charges against him in relation to the shooting.

[763] So Joey goes basically flaunting his freedom in the press and on.

[764] on TV every chance he gets, but his victory is short -lived.

[765] Because in February of 1993, the DA reopens the statutory rape case against him.

[766] Amy testifies before a grand jury that spring, and her words, coupled with hotel receipts dated before Amy's 17th birthday, they basically all point toward Joey's guilt.

[767] But even in the face of this damning and hard evidence, Mary Jo Boettifugo defends her husband.

[768] She believes that Amy's lying.

[769] She claims that she's lying, and she believes Joey never, ever cheated on her with Amy.

[770] The grand jury disagrees.

[771] Joey's indicted for statutory rape, sodomy, and endangering the welfare of a minor.

[772] At first, he pleads not guilty, but then reality sets in, and by the time his trial starts in October of 1993, he pleads guilty to the statutory rape charge and is sentenced to six months in prison.

[773] So, and this is where this story, I think, for a lot of people, it was like, it was all in, like, everything you would read about every day, Long Island, Lodita, and then these twists and these turns.

[774] And then finally when I got to this part, it was just like, oh, no, like, I can't, I don't want to hear about these people anymore.

[775] Yeah.

[776] So after Joey's release from prison in 1994, and at this point, he and Mary Joe are still together.

[777] She stood by him through him serving time.

[778] for Stad Story Rape, they move to Los Angeles because Joey wants to parlay this fame and infamy into a TV or acting career.

[779] He gets some work on cable television, but a year later, 1995, he gets caught trying to solicit sex from an undercover cop.

[780] So this arrest and then and also this consistent cheating, it points to, basically opens Mary Jo's eyes to the fact that her husband is, as she will later say, a sociopath.

[781] And she divorces him in 2003.

[782] And a year later in March 2004, Joey Bodefouca is arrested again for committing insurance fraud.

[783] He spends a year in jail and is on sentenced to five years parole after his release.

[784] In 2019, there were rumors.

[785] that he was working on a movie about his life.

[786] And according to his daughter, he is, quote, in therapy and he's healing.

[787] But she says, hopefully he's, quote, not using it to justify why he made so many poor decisions.

[788] So after her prison released in 1999, Amy Fisher works as a columnist for the Long Island Press.

[789] She also goes on to publish a memoir in 2004 called If I Only, only knew then.

[790] Although there's a, the writing credit is given to a writer named Robbie Walliver.

[791] In 2003, her parole officially ends.

[792] She marries a man who's 24 year old years older than her and is also a New York police officer.

[793] They have three kids before they are divorced in 2015.

[794] So they, they make it for about 12 years.

[795] Since her release from prison, Amy has given conflicting statements about her shooting Mary Jo Botafuko.

[796] She's written articles in which she expresses remorse for what she did, an acknowledgement that she's paid her debt to society and a desire to move on and grow from that experience.

[797] But then in other instances, she's also said that she feels, quote, no sympathy for Mary Jo.

[798] Hmm.

[799] She's also made a number of her own TV appearances, and even she reunited with Joey Butterfugo in May of 2007, because there was an idea that they might start a reality show together.

[800] No, one wants to see that.

[801] Well, it never materialized.

[802] Thank God.

[803] Instead, Amy goes into the adult film business for a while, but she got out of it in 2011, and she has since reportedly changed her name and her appearance.

[804] So she's trying to put all of that life behind her now.

[805] Okay.

[806] So after the Buttafouca's 2003 divorce, Mary Jo did the rounds on all the TV talk shows herself.

[807] She was on Larry King Live.

[808] She did Oprah.

[809] She did all of them.

[810] And in 2009, she wrote and released a book called Getting It Through My Thick Skull.

[811] Yeah.

[812] That's clever.

[813] It's amazing.

[814] It is.

[815] But here's the full title of this book.

[816] Getting it through my thick skull.

[817] Why I stayed, what I learned, and what millions of people involved with sociopaths need to know.

[818] Girl.

[819] Yes.

[820] And I know comics who have met Mary Jo Bodefouca because she likes to go to comedy shows.

[821] No. And they say she's super cool, really funny, really nice, like a really normal, regular, cool person.

[822] Amazing.

[823] So she had a facial paralysis for a while after in her recovery.

[824] She had and she had surgeries all along to like slowly repair that.

[825] But in 2017, she had what's called a reanimation surgery after all the reconstructive surgeries that basically repaired the nerve damage in her face.

[826] And it reversed a lot of the facial paralysis.

[827] and she basically can smile fully again because of that surgery.

[828] I mean, imagine every time you look in the mirror, it's like a reminder of this horrible time in your life.

[829] And so is not looking in the mirror, but just the fact knowing you have a bullet lodged in your spine, which is still there to this day.

[830] They can't remove it.

[831] Oh, shit.

[832] And just as a little kind of disgusting cherry to top off.

[833] this very upsetting story.

[834] Because Mary Jo Bodefouca referred to Joey Bodefouca as a sociopath in her memoir, he sued her on grounds that she had, quote, made Mr. Bodefouca a pariah in the community, causing him not just public embarrassment, but the loss of business.

[835] No. Yeah.

[836] Yeah.

[837] The woman who stood by him all the way through.

[838] She should have used that as proof, Your Honor.

[839] He's suing me for this.

[840] Clearly, he's actually a sociopath.

[841] I mean, yes.

[842] Like, that's the evidence, all the evidence you need.

[843] Oh, my God.

[844] Insane.

[845] And that basically, it's such a skimmed out version.

[846] But in terms of chronology and in terms of remember when this crazy shit happened in America, that is the story of the shooting and the survival of Mary Jo Badafouca.

[847] It feels like a Shakespeare.

[848] tail.

[849] Yes.

[850] Doesn't it?

[851] Yes.

[852] So much drama.

[853] So such a nightmare.

[854] Also it's just like somebody walking up to your door in the middle of the day.

[855] Like there was so many things triggered in this story and it just like the more you talk about it, the worse it gets.

[856] And it was handled, I mean just even slightly thinking about how awful everything was handled around it in the media.

[857] It was just disgusting well that's what the fucking 90s were like man like yes they were no privacy and everything was up for grabs well and exploited exploited and these takes these angles right on women always yeah like it just was there was so little not even a quality but just even like care it was just like right Yeah.

[858] Amazing.

[859] Sorry, I never read my sources.

[860] Go ahead.

[861] Go ahead if you want to say some.

[862] I was just going to say if you're watching Pam and Tommy right now, which is hard because I feel for her so much, but they're really showing what how horribly she was treated.

[863] Yeah.

[864] And that, you know, this reckoning of like what the public and, you know, lawyers and tablets did to fucking Pamela Anderson.

[865] It's like heartbreaking.

[866] And it's, it reminds me so much of this story of like, you're, you are game and you are fodder and that is all you fucking are.

[867] That's right.

[868] You know.

[869] Yep.

[870] And God forbid that you're like a really gorgeous, sexy woman like Pam Anderson.

[871] Or, I mean, like the quote unquote Long Island Lolita, which is like, you mean a minor.

[872] A minor.

[873] Right.

[874] Even when it was like even when it was statutory.

[875] okay.

[876] She was still under 18.

[877] Yeah.

[878] Yeah.

[879] And he was 30 fucking six.

[880] Like, oh, gross.

[881] Nightmare.

[882] The sources for my story today, an article from the True TV Crime Library by a journalist named Rachel Bell.

[883] There's an article from Good Housekeeping by Kayla Kegan.

[884] There's a New York Times article by Diana Jean Shamo.

[885] Um, there's a Time magazine article by William A. Henry the third.

[886] There's, uh, two Wikipedia, there's three Wikipedia pages, Mary Joe Butterfookos, Joey Butterfookos and Amy Fisher's.

[887] And, uh, there was a time article by Jennifer Latson and an Associated Press article.

[888] And I, sorry, I just read this, this, this, the title of this.

[889] the Associated Press article is Amy Fisher taped saying she deserves a Ferrari for pain.

[890] Jesus.

[891] Yeah.

[892] An article from the Associated Press.

[893] All right.

[894] So my story today is a little short, partly because it's a cold case without a ton of evidence.

[895] But I'd never heard of it until I was scrolling on Reddit late at night.

[896] And it's so bizarre that I just really wanted to cover it.

[897] Cool.

[898] So today I'm going to cover the case of what's known as the Box Lady of Benton County.

[899] My sources are multiple journal and courier articles written by Sherry Brown and then one by Dave Bangert, a UPI staff article, a blog post from this really cool website called The Dead History, and then the DNA Doe Project.

[900] So October 8th, we're in 1976, a man named Norman Scoog is in his combine.

[901] Do you know what that is?

[902] Yes, I do.

[903] Would you like me to tell you?

[904] I really would.

[905] Combines are those big, gigantic, and this is going to be farm.

[906] It's farm, yeah.

[907] Terms.

[908] No, I was going to say like, farm arinos, let us know.

[909] Let me know how wrong I get this.

[910] But from what I know, you know, a tractor is like grinding up just like the thing here.

[911] The combines are those big wide ones that like do, you know, like a bunch of stuff at the same time maybe sometimes they're like hay balers sometimes they're like to churn up everything at once but it's like a big old piece of farm equipment okay big heavy rusty thing yes so norman is harvesting corn in one of his cornfields in his combine in the combine say it with me combine combine it's out in rural benton county indiana which is less than a hundred miles outside of indianapolis but i'm guessing back at nineteen seventy six was probably really rural and like a farming area.

[912] There's no 7 -Elevens for miles.

[913] You just like, you couldn't get a domino's pizza to save your life out there.

[914] God, a fucking $5 fast and easy from Sears would save your life.

[915] You wish.

[916] Dream on.

[917] Dream on.

[918] Maybe if your mom drove you into town.

[919] No crazy bread for you.

[920] No crazy bread for you, baby.

[921] So he's out there.

[922] He's driving.

[923] to the ninth row of his corn area.

[924] I'm from suburbia, by the way.

[925] The ninth row?

[926] The ninth row of his corn field.

[927] Okay.

[928] I don't know.

[929] Got it.

[930] Okay.

[931] It's around 15 yards from the main road and he stumbles upon a white box.

[932] Always bad.

[933] And it's in the middle of nowhere.

[934] You know what I mean?

[935] It's not like off the side of the road or whatever.

[936] So it's around three feet long, two feet wide, one foot deep.

[937] It's the kind of box that's commonly used by moving.

[938] and storage companies, you know, just like a basic moving box.

[939] One end is stamped with wardrobe bottom.

[940] And the other part has the box says hull closet written on it.

[941] So like not an easily traceable kind of packing box.

[942] It's sealed with gray furnace tape and tied with a clothesline.

[943] And it must have been dumped there within the last 12 hours because it had rained before then and the box isn't wet.

[944] this is a real very disturbing opening to a story because out in the middle of nowhere and then out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of nowhere.

[945] So like you're in the ninth row of the cornfields the only person going out there is the farmer that works that land and whoever else works on that land except for the person who put this box out there.

[946] And it gets weird.

[947] Oh.

[948] So Norman, he rolls the box aside thinking someone dropped it.

[949] Maybe it was some kids playing, but it's still there later on in the day.

[950] So he asks his father -in -law to help him load it in the truck because it's too heavy for him to carry on his own.

[951] So when they pull up to Norman's house with the box in the back, his 16 -year -old son notices that the box is, quote, drenched with a cheap, heavy perfume.

[952] So Norman starts opening it up.

[953] finds a, quote, massive object, wrapped in heavy sheets of plastic.

[954] It's similar to clear plastic runners used to put over carpets.

[955] So, you know, they wouldn't get dirty.

[956] And it's also bound by rope and tape.

[957] And Norman gets a weird feeling about the box.

[958] And this is how you're supposed to fucking function in life.

[959] So he stops and calls the cops.

[960] Yep.

[961] That's right.

[962] Like even in 1976, Norman was like, you know what?

[963] Fingerprints not dealing with it.

[964] And also, I think Norman probably being a very level -headed farming type of person.

[965] Right.

[966] Just like, what could this come to in the end?

[967] Right.

[968] Opening it up and seeing something I'll never be able to deal with or, you know, like some shocking, awful thing.

[969] Like, get the authorities in.

[970] Yeah.

[971] Something's wrapped in carpet runner.

[972] You know how thick that rubber is on carpet runners?

[973] No. It's hardcore.

[974] Get away.

[975] And also it's like Indiana.

[976] So he's probably like, hey, our state motto is, mind your business.

[977] So this is not my business.

[978] It's not my business.

[979] This is someone else's business.

[980] Look, Indiana, if that's not your saying, then just let me know.

[981] Mind your business.

[982] Mind your business.

[983] State motto.

[984] We should do some state motto updates that are more helpful to people.

[985] Mind your business.

[986] Put that on a fucking license plate right now.

[987] All right.

[988] So the sheriff named Donald Steeley shows up and cuts open the five layers of the plastic sheeting.

[989] Of course, immediately the smell of death permeates out of those sheets, which they hadn't been able to smell because of that crazy strong perfume that had clearly been like dumped all over to cover the smell.

[990] So Sheriff Steeley automatically recognizes what the smell is, that it's a dead body.

[991] So he also fucking minds your business.

[992] And he calls the state police Before going deeper He's just like Also not my business Let's go higher Which is like so rare I feel like for back in the day Then it was just like Let's touch everything And put cigarettes on That lit cigarettes on everything You know Right No that's that's great It's all great Everybody's doing a great job so far That's right The state police arrive They transport the box To the coroner's office The rope and tape are undone And there of course they find the body of a woman in the fetal position with her hands tied behind her knees.

[993] Her head is wrapped in, quote, smaller than average white cloth towel and two, quote, light -colored plastic bags similar to the type used to line small trash cans.

[994] And she'd been shot in the back of the head at close range, uh -huh, with a small caliber bullet.

[995] And then the plastic had pressed against her face, leaving kind of her face distorted.

[996] So it was kind of hard to tell exactly what she looked like.

[997] The autopsy shows that the woman had been left for dead around seven to ten days.

[998] However, the body shows little sign of decomposition.

[999] And it appears that her killer or killers knew what they were doing because the woman had been shot at the base of her brain in such a way that the bullet didn't enter and get lodged in the in her brain or in her spinal cord like like your victim but it actually exited the soft tissue meaning uh there was no bullet left behind to help authorities identify you know the killer so it's basically a professional job like someone who knows yeah yeah it sounds like a hit you know to me and it seems like that's possible.

[1000] So the woman, her description is that she's white.

[1001] She's around 55 to 65 years old, 5 foot 2, 160 pounds.

[1002] She's wearing light green slacks and a green white checkered blouse, which just sounds like the 1970s grandma, like a uniform.

[1003] Yes.

[1004] Right?

[1005] Like the elastic way slacks matching.

[1006] Yeah, like a J .C. Penny special for sure.

[1007] Yeah.

[1008] Totally.

[1009] Totally, which is like, like, and her clothes besides being covered in blood, of course, were like clean.

[1010] So why, who is this woman?

[1011] Why would she, you know, what on earth happened that she would be murdered, you know?

[1012] The outfit is, quote, indistinguishable from that of any other woman, her size and age.

[1013] So it's like a fucking typical outfit.

[1014] Yeah.

[1015] According to the journal and courier.

[1016] Her clothes are, quote, unfraid and relatively clean, besides all the blood.

[1017] and she's not wearing any pantyhose, shoes, or jewelry.

[1018] Which I feel like pantyhows were pretty standard back then.

[1019] So that is interesting.

[1020] Yeah.

[1021] The woman's face is, quote, plain, unblemished with makeup.

[1022] And she has, quote, an upturned nose with a bump beneath the bridge portion and abnormally large ears for her small face.

[1023] Her nails are trimmed short and, quote, ragged.

[1024] Her hands are calloused, leading investigators to theorize that she may have been a clean.

[1025] lady.

[1026] She has faded and graying red -brown hair, heavy bags into her eyes, and few wrinkles.

[1027] Her eye color can't be determined, but the coroner believes them to be brown.

[1028] Oh, the woman had undergone many surgeries, including a, quote, radical mastectomy on her right side.

[1029] She'd also undergone dental work, but quote, still needed much more, which is like, insulting.

[1030] For days, police keep the county roads surrounding the field, uh, cordoned off.

[1031] while they scour the fields for evidence, they don't find anything.

[1032] Investigators try to figure out how the box got in the field.

[1033] A few tipsters reported that they saw strangers in the area around the time of the box being dumped.

[1034] But according to all the farmers living in the area, they would have noticed a vehicle driving on the gravel.

[1035] Like, I feel like it's the kind of town where you notice what's, you don't mind your business.

[1036] You keep an eye out for your neighbors.

[1037] You know what's going on, right?

[1038] Like any unidentified cars would have been noticed.

[1039] Well, that's the thing about, like, where I grew up, because we were five miles out of town.

[1040] Yeah.

[1041] You noticed every car that went by because they only went by once every four hours.

[1042] You could hear them coming.

[1043] Oh.

[1044] You could, like, I always knew when my dad was coming when he was really far away because you could hear a Volkswagen engine.

[1045] Like, when you're that far out in the country, it's quiet.

[1046] Yeah.

[1047] And cars are rare.

[1048] So people do pay attention, like, especially if a car drive by twice, that's when, like, everyone's paying attention.

[1049] So there is a, it's very easy to pay attention to cars because they're like a rare thing.

[1050] If that's how it was, if it was comparable to where I grew up.

[1051] And you also probably know, like, when you kind of have it, you know, in the back of your mind, an idea of when cars come and go.

[1052] Like this person gets home then.

[1053] This is three o 'clock.

[1054] So kids are coming home from school.

[1055] So if there's a random one during the day, you'd probably notice.

[1056] I think people, they look out their window a little bit.

[1057] What's going on?

[1058] Sure.

[1059] So, but the area is very secluded.

[1060] It's miles from the main roads and is only reachable through a series of twists and turns.

[1061] And then also, there aren't any broken stalks of corn leading up to the body, which means a vehicle didn't drive the nine rows into the field to dump the box.

[1062] Yeah.

[1063] It was walked in.

[1064] It was maybe, but it was very heavy.

[1065] So, because Norman hadn't even been able to carry it himself.

[1066] So it would be weird.

[1067] if it was just one person, right?

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] So none of the farmers saw a vehicle before the box was found, but what they had seen, Karen, was a helicopter.

[1070] No. Which was, quote, highly unusual for the area.

[1071] And the time, I would think, too.

[1072] According to the journal and courier, three farmers, three different farmers watched a helicopter fly in from the northeast, swing to the southwest.

[1073] lower to hover near the ground where the box was found, then swing back to the west and then disappear into the northeast.

[1074] I don't know what I'm telling you these directions because I don't even fucking know.

[1075] No, but I like it because it basically they came in and did a big loop and they basically they came and dropped something off and took off.

[1076] They hovered, man. In a helicopter, that's nuts.

[1077] Helicopter.

[1078] It's also very obvious.

[1079] Yeah.

[1080] It's like, it is.

[1081] Yeah.

[1082] It's not subtle.

[1083] No, it is not.

[1084] Okay.

[1085] So one of the farmers happens to know a lot about helicopters.

[1086] So he's able to tell the investigators about it, which is it's a golden white bell jet ranger.

[1087] And it's typically owned by corporations or rich people.

[1088] So the plot thickens.

[1089] Mm -hmm.

[1090] The helicopter tip seems crazy to the investigators.

[1091] They're like, that's not possible.

[1092] They look into the lead anyways.

[1093] And when they review aerial photos taken of the crime scene, they see in a regular circle of exposed black dirt surrounding the dump site.

[1094] And according to the journal and courier again, quote, just before corn is harvested and after it's picked, brittle and dried stocks litter the ground and cover most of the soil.

[1095] But it turns out the powerful updraft created by a helicopter could have caused the stocks to scatter.

[1096] Got it.

[1097] leave the ground exposed.

[1098] Yeah.

[1099] Ew.

[1100] There are no other irregular circles of exposed dirt anywhere else in the photos.

[1101] So the investigators aren't sure if the body had been dumped there via a helicopter or car.

[1102] They're like us, like this is weird and curious.

[1103] Yes.

[1104] They put together a sketch of the woman and take her fingerprints and they send them to nearby states.

[1105] I mean, people don't come forward saying they knew who she was.

[1106] nobody.

[1107] But the sketch is so rudimentary of her.

[1108] It's like there's no defining characteristics.

[1109] It's a side profile of her.

[1110] I mean, it'd be hard based on that to identify anyone.

[1111] Right.

[1112] So no leads come up.

[1113] And it also shows that the woman had never been arrested because her fingerprints aren't in the system.

[1114] She'd never been in the military.

[1115] She'd never immigrated to the U .S. or worked in the civil service based on her prints not being found anywhere.

[1116] Sorry.

[1117] This just hit me, and I know this is very JV of me, but it just kind of hit me how, because they know that the percentage wise, the odds of someone of you being killed by someone that you know, a family member, whatever, the highest.

[1118] Right.

[1119] The Venn diagram of people who would report you and people who would kill you are entirely one big overlapping circle of malice and here.

[1120] I just, sorry, it's so obvious.

[1121] It's what everyone already knows.

[1122] And, but it just hit me or just like that's how things like this happen the people who would report are the people who may have been involved and I feel like back then it's like well the friends would have believed the husband who's like she moved to be with her sister in you know wherever and no and they wouldn't have meddled and said she's missing they would have just believed the husband or you know the son or whoever yeah back then and then wouldn't I mean, it's so rare to actually look at the newspaper and see that photo and be like, oh, my God, that's my friend.

[1123] Because in your mind, yeah, she's away and fucking living with her sister.

[1124] Yeah, you wouldn't be suspicious or you wouldn't be looking.

[1125] Right.

[1126] So, yeah.

[1127] So they published a sketch.

[1128] No one comes forward.

[1129] And two weeks after her body is found, the box lady, as she's known, is buried in an unmarked grave in the Fowler Cemetery.

[1130] Investigators continue trying to solve the case.

[1131] They are unsuccessful.

[1132] All they have is theories.

[1133] And Sheriff Steeley's theory is that she was killed in the Chicago area.

[1134] He has many reasons for believing this.

[1135] People are killed more often in the big city, of course.

[1136] And it would be a really kind of quick drive from Chicago to Benton County or a very fast helicopter ride.

[1137] Very fast helicopter ride.

[1138] We know, like, you know, some people theorize that maybe she had witnessed something that the mob was doing and was set to testify like who the fuck knows and like I feel like the mob would have access to a nice helicopter pretty easily probably right yeah but uh I mean you know my opinion of involving the mob in these things how dare it's how dare you how dare you approach my people with this no um it's an easy patsy and you don't appreciate it well but I think the mob is smart enough to know you like going no it to me the move of if it were the helicopter.

[1139] Yeah.

[1140] The move of going and dumping a body in a helicopter and racing away is a city person move thinking, oh, out there, that's just a bunch of cornfields.

[1141] No one's going to see.

[1142] Right.

[1143] When it's like, no, no, you don't, you, what you don't understand is there's people all around that you're just, they're just low key.

[1144] That's why I don't totally believe the helicopter theory is like, well, why didn't they just fucking, they would have just dropped it in a body of water, not in a place.

[1145] place that people farm and, like, regularly fucking drive their combines.

[1146] True.

[1147] Although, what body of water would be near there big enough?

[1148] Like, you mean, like, Lake Michigan?

[1149] The one right by Chicago.

[1150] Why are you asking?

[1151] There's some great.

[1152] Why are you asking us this?

[1153] I know.

[1154] I wish you wouldn't.

[1155] Why do I think questions up?

[1156] Well, I just, I mean, yeah.

[1157] Yeah.

[1158] What's driving me crazy is you're, there's going to be no answers to these things that we're here.

[1159] I know.

[1160] I know.

[1161] And that's why I don't love cold cases, but that's why I'm so fascinated with cold cases.

[1162] It's just like, the answer is right freaking there.

[1163] And like, we just need a few more details, but we can't grasp them.

[1164] And I just like, it drives me crazy.

[1165] So the other thing is that the box she was found in was manufactured in Melrose Park, Illinois, which is a suburb of Chicago.

[1166] and was distributed to moving and storage companies in Indiana, Chicago, Southern Michigan, and Wisconsin.

[1167] So in January of 2019, so that was back in, what did I say, 76?

[1168] That was back in 76.

[1169] So finally, in 2019, Benton County investigators reopened the case.

[1170] Wow.

[1171] Yeah, they're hoping to identify the woman at least.

[1172] Luckily, they still have the evidence from the investigation.

[1173] Like, when does that happen?

[1174] Yeah, that's amazing.

[1175] There was a flood.

[1176] There was a fire.

[1177] We threw it away.

[1178] But if there's anybody that you can rely on in this scenario, it's these Benton County investigators from 1978.

[1179] They're like, we got this.

[1180] We're going to put it.

[1181] That's right.

[1182] We're going to put it somewhere safe and we're going to respect evidence and we're going to try to make sure that this gets solved.

[1183] That's right.

[1184] They dot their T's and they cross their eyes.

[1185] Okay.

[1186] Luckily, they have the evidence.

[1187] They have the rope, the plastic and the box still.

[1188] The coroner Matt Rosenberger tells the journal and courier, who's like, so involved in this story, obviously.

[1189] First on the scene.

[1190] First on the scene.

[1191] That it really bothered the initial investigators that they couldn't solve the case.

[1192] He says, the quote, previous investigation deserved the extra effort now that science has caught up.

[1193] They worked so hard.

[1194] And I wanted to carry that torch for them, I guess.

[1195] So I know.

[1196] Coroner Rosenberger tells our friends at the journal and courier that there's currently a wide variety of theories.

[1197] It could have been a mob hit as.

[1198] Karen refuses to admit.

[1199] Could have been that she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[1200] And then he says, who knows for sure.

[1201] And obviously, finding out who she is is the first step.

[1202] Yeah.

[1203] He just says that he knows that there was no missing people cases around the time and that someone went out of their way to go to the middle of Benton County to leave her.

[1204] Which is so curious.

[1205] Like, why there?

[1206] So in the summer of 2019, authorities exhumed the box lady's remains from her popper's grave and sent them to the labs at the University of Indianapolis.

[1207] And according to the DNA Doe Project, the remains are still undergoing testing as of February 6th, 2022.

[1208] Wow.

[1209] And that is the cold case story of the box lady of Benton County.

[1210] So this is something that could potentially in the next couple months, come back up absolutely and I feel like these cases are these cold cases of mostly like a lot of identifying missing people has been happening a lot lately as you know of course we have these incredible new DNA investigation techniques and you know that's obviously the first step to finding out who did it is to identify who the person is and then look into the people on their lives and right well I hope we hear about something that would be also I just like thinking about the clothes, thinking about the description, thinking about the, like, the possibility of who it could be is, I really, really hope that they are able to track, to track and trace her.

[1211] Yeah, it just also seems like an unusual victim.

[1212] You know what I mean?

[1213] Like, it sounds like a grandma.

[1214] Right.

[1215] She had no makeup on.

[1216] She had her nails weren't, like, it's just very, very simple seeming woman.

[1217] Yes.

[1218] So you wonder what on earth could have happened.

[1219] Right.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] Yeah.

[1222] Yeah.

[1223] Say it.

[1224] Well, also just the wrap, her being wrapped up and all the stuff wrapped around her and then the smell and everything like that, then it's like how long, how long since had she been, where she kept somewhere.

[1225] Right.

[1226] Like was this, yeah, I just want to know the story now.

[1227] Real bad.

[1228] Sorry.

[1229] No, it's a good one.

[1230] But also, what an intensely bizarre, a helicopter dropped a box with a body in it.

[1231] I mean, what if that turns out to be true?

[1232] Well, because you're right.

[1233] Like, if we're nine rows in and the corn and away from the road, there's no way someone's going to go be able to get away because I was like, what if it's a neighbor walked it in there, but that's a 160 pounds that someone has to carry.

[1234] And if they had, like, wheeled it in on a thing, then there would have been broken stocks around it.

[1235] The other thing, too, is that if it was a helicopter that dropped it, then that two people were involved because someone had to fly the helicopter and hover and someone else would have had to push it out.

[1236] So, like, that to me is a little more mobby, too, where it's like multiple people were in on this and no one's ever ratted those people out, you know?

[1237] Yeah, but, you know, if it's just plain old rich people, like a privately owned helicopter, then that's someone that's got their valet slash manservant that's just working for them and, like, being paid off.

[1238] I mean, who knows?

[1239] God damn.

[1240] Bananas.

[1241] Good one.

[1242] Thank you.

[1243] So we wanted to end real quick.

[1244] We talked about how just awful the Russian invasion of Ukraine is.

[1245] And we are absolutely horrified by it.

[1246] And so we're going to donate 10 grand to the Ukrainian Crisis Relief Fund, which is part of global giving.

[1247] And so basically they provide long -term support for survivors of conflicts like this Ukrainian conflict.

[1248] And if you want to give to that or any fund to help Ukrainian refugees, just make sure that the place you're giving to is legit.

[1249] There's lots of things going on on social media right now.

[1250] there's lots of it you know obviously everyone's paying attention to it and everyone's involved so just take a moment to to verify where you're sending and there's lots of great like i've seen tons of tweets of like here's the verifiable places where your money actually goes somewhere so just be careful and you know thank you for thinking of also helping because i think you know this is there's a lot of women and children caught up in the middle of this and a lot of now a lot a lot of lot of refugees, just trying to find somewhere, just trying to find, you know, a place to go.

[1251] Yeah.

[1252] So this is globalgiving .org is where we're donating.

[1253] Yeah.

[1254] All right.

[1255] Stay strong.

[1256] Focus on the positive.

[1257] Allow yourself to escape into true crime because that's what you like.

[1258] And that's what we like.

[1259] Right.

[1260] Don't blame the mob, obviously.

[1261] They're just not involved as much as people want them to be.

[1262] It's just like, don't blame the mob.

[1263] Look into the human psyche and what is wrong with so many of us.

[1264] That's right.

[1265] And the way we treat each other.

[1266] Everything is the mob's fault.

[1267] Yeah.

[1268] Scapegoat.

[1269] Karen is calling scapegoat right here right now.

[1270] Look to yourselves.

[1271] Judge thyself, let be judged by.

[1272] Not judge the mob.

[1273] By mobs.

[1274] They're just the mobsters.

[1275] There's just not that many of them.

[1276] And other than that, stay sexy.

[1277] And don't get murdered.

[1278] Goodbye.

[1279] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1280] This has been an exactly right production.

[1281] Our senior producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton.

[1282] Our producer is Alejandra Keck.

[1283] This episode was engineered and mixed by Stephen Ray Morris.

[1284] Our researchers are Jay Elias and Haley Gray.

[1285] Email your hometowns and fucking hoorays to my favorite murder at gmail .com.

[1286] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at my fave murder.

[1287] Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[1288] Goodbye.