Neil Patrick Harris

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Lily Padman and Aaron Michael Weekly.

[3] Hello, hello.

[4] Michael, I don't know if I knew that.

[5] Aaron Mike Weekly, just like Neil Pat Harris.

[6] Wow, ding, ding, ding.

[7] Aaron is AMW just like Neil Patrick Harris's MPH.

[8] Exactly the same.

[9] You see how similar it is?

[10] Twinsies.

[11] Well, Neil is our wonderful guest today.

[12] He's an Emmy and Tony Award -winning actor and producer, Douglas Houser, MD.

[13] He was Douglas Houser.

[14] The original MD.

[15] You know, it's funny, you call people Dugie Housers now.

[16] He's a colloquial term, right?

[17] He really is.

[18] Yeah, you'd be like, oh, he's a real doogie.

[19] We'd say that about Ronan.

[20] We said Ronan was a Dugie Houser or Douglas Houser.

[21] Also, how I met your mother.

[22] My favorite show he was in a series of unfortunate events, and he is a new show out now on Netflix called Uncoupled.

[23] And it's with the writers from Sex and the City, which is exciting for many, many people.

[24] Darren Starr and a modern family writer as well.

[25] Good job.

[26] You remember that well.

[27] So please buckle up for the ever -charming, really honest, really self -reflective, Neil Patrick Harris.

[28] Wonderie Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free.

[29] Right now.

[30] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[31] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[32] He's an object spread.

[33] What a sexy environment.

[34] This is, I am.

[35] Welcome to my crib.

[36] Oh, my God.

[37] I do too.

[38] I'm erect.

[39] You can take some pills and that'll go away.

[40] I'd love to know what those are.

[41] Where are you?

[42] I'm in my office here.

[43] East Hampton at the Funhouse Farm.

[44] That's our place here.

[45] It was like an addict room at some point.

[46] It was new construction.

[47] There's a spiral staircase going up here.

[48] Oh, my God.

[49] My ginkery stuff is here.

[50] Oh, my God.

[51] Is this where your magic tricks are?

[52] This is where magic is.

[53] What if you accidentally fell down this staircase when we watch you die in front of us?

[54] No, it would be a magic trick.

[55] Oh, it would be.

[56] Yeah.

[57] Who's that?

[58] Oh, wow.

[59] It's an old school figments.

[60] from back in the Epcot days.

[61] Oh, I see a white rabbit.

[62] Yes, of course it's a white rabbit.

[63] We've talked to innumerable guests in their environments, and I'm going to tell you this is my favorite I've ever seen.

[64] Truly.

[65] This is top three.

[66] We're about to build a house, and I want to know how I get this exact room in my new house.

[67] I can tell you lots, man. This is our fourth or fifth house that we've done.

[68] And this was our house that we knew we were going to live in for the rest of our lives.

[69] So this was not the house to build to sell.

[70] This was the house to build to die in someday.

[71] So it's just all of the things that I like.

[72] So what do you think you got 10 more years in the house then?

[73] 10, 12, a lucky dozen.

[74] It's escape rooms galore.

[75] Lots of escape room boxes and magic stuff and puppetry things.

[76] You have escape room set up in the house?

[77] Well, not exactly.

[78] But one of the phases here is I'm starting to be.

[79] put in a hedge maze, like an actual hedge maze.

[80] Sure.

[81] Because we had some acreage.

[82] There was an area that seemed kind of oddly positioned, and I thought, oh, what would be great is to plant the box woods or whatever early so that you're not paying a stupid amount of money.

[83] And I'm figuring out the layout.

[84] But I didn't want to just be a hedge maze that the kids could shout to their friends, Hey, Maya, left, right, right, left, left.

[85] And then they were out in three minutes.

[86] So I'm going to do an escape the hedge maze.

[87] So instead there'll be garden gates kind of that will have locks of different types on them which I think is going to be very successful because then if you see a dead end and you keep going around you find a gate you'll find something on it and then you'll have to then backtrack to those dead ends which now might not be dead ends because they might have things inside of them that you would need.

[88] This is so Harry Potter.

[89] Oh my God.

[90] He's living your dream existence.

[91] He is literally living my dream.

[92] I don't know if you know this or not, Neil, but Monica is so horning for magicians.

[93] That's her number one thing she's working for.

[94] It's very sexy.

[95] And what is it about the magician that horns you up?

[96] I think it's that they have secrets and that's exciting or they know things I don't know.

[97] Do you like to know the secrets to how things work?

[98] Like if you were to go to the magic castle and see a great magician, would you, I feel like there's two schools of people, right?

[99] There's people who just love the magic and there's people who get mad and feel like they're being played and must know how it's done.

[100] You just described both options.

[101] Exactly.

[102] Yeah.

[103] I'm sure you can guess who's who.

[104] One over here and two over here.

[105] Yeah.

[106] I love it.

[107] I'm totally enamored by it.

[108] We've had arguments where she's like, no, no, it was magic.

[109] And I'm like, well, hold on.

[110] Am I hearing that you actually believe in magic?

[111] And she's like, well, kind of.

[112] I love that.

[113] I'm fine with it just being what it is.

[114] Listen, I want you to know, Neil, because I don't want to disrespect your trade.

[115] I'm not frustrated that I don't know what happened because I know I'm not going to be able to figure it out.

[116] So that's not my issue because of my childhood.

[117] I don't like being deceived.

[118] I'm like, what's this person's angle?

[119] I don't like deception.

[120] I'm allergic to it.

[121] There's an intrinsic element of, I've fooled you.

[122] I've played you.

[123] Oh, yeah, some ego maybe for me too.

[124] Maybe.

[125] Yeah.

[126] Of like, oh, you've known that all along.

[127] Now you're treating me like a fool of this.

[128] We were in a fight for what, a month over the Netflix one.

[129] What was it?

[130] Oh, yeah.

[131] No, I think his name was David.

[132] It wasn't on Netflix.

[133] Hulu.

[134] David Kwong?

[135] No, but we do not.

[136] know him, he performed at my birthday party.

[137] David Blaine.

[138] No, no, hold on.

[139] It was a neat stage show.

[140] Delgadoio.

[141] Oh, Derek.

[142] Delgadoo, yeah.

[143] Thank you.

[144] Okay.

[145] Yeah, we had fights about it.

[146] I was really excited by that.

[147] I actually really liked that.

[148] But at the same time, I was like, God, he almost got to some human truth.

[149] I thought he was going to expose.

[150] But at the end, it was a trick.

[151] And Monica was insisting it wasn't a trick that people had somehow transported to these locations.

[152] I don't know what you thought.

[153] But I was like, what are you saying that this wasn't a trick?

[154] No, no, just that the human spirit, to be honest, I forget the details.

[155] Yeah, like he guessed a bunch of stuff.

[156] Yeah, but it was beautiful at the end.

[157] This has nothing to do with you.

[158] I'm sorry, we are trying to ensnare you on this.

[159] Weirdly it does.

[160] I produced that show in Union Square.

[161] You did?

[162] The live show, not the Hulu one that you saw.

[163] Okay.

[164] But I thought that that was a really great transfer of magic to screen.

[165] Big time.

[166] Going and seeing that show live was very much like what you explained.

[167] It felt like he was doing magical effects, yes, but he had created an environment that was almost cathedral and sort of spiritual without feeling douchy.

[168] Yes.

[169] But he wasn't trying to pretend that he was doing, like I have a real issue with people thinking and saying that they have magical powers or spiritual list abilities and things like that.

[170] That's a trigger for me. And so he doesn't do that.

[171] He's very on the up and up about he doesn't have magical powers.

[172] But the things that he did really affected people emotionally.

[173] And Frank Oz directed that.

[174] And Frank and Derek were very in sync with wanting every show to be authentic for him to not just do an active version of emotion, but to really sort of try and channel it.

[175] And it was a spectacular experience and changed nightly because some of them were indifferent.

[176] And some people lost their fucking minds and were crying and you were watching this.

[177] And you know it's a trick, and yet you're experiencing them and the whole environment.

[178] Derek and that show are what make magic great to me. I think that's how you take magic to another level.

[179] I agree.

[180] I'm so sorry, Neil.

[181] I'm just trying to track down.

[182] We have an electrical buzz.

[183] This is our first time, Neil.

[184] This is the opposite of magic.

[185] This is behind the magic.

[186] This is how the sausage is made.

[187] Ooh, like the prestige.

[188] Oh, favorite movie.

[189] Do you like the prestige, Neil?

[190] Do you have a favorite?

[191] I loved the book.

[192] There was a book.

[193] Oh, yeah.

[194] It was based on a book.

[195] We have to read that now.

[196] Okay.

[197] It was a charger going through your output into our headphones.

[198] It's been corrected.

[199] We're embarrassed.

[200] You could have done something spectacular in that time.

[201] You could have done a magic trick for us.

[202] Yes.

[203] Okay.

[204] So this is relevant.

[205] I know we're kind of off on a tangent here, but I'm fascinated by kids who learn magic in their bedroom.

[206] Is it safe to say you learned it when you're a kid?

[207] Very safe, yeah.

[208] I put you in a category of great guitarists.

[209] This is a hobby that requires great solitude.

[210] and a ton of time in your bedroom by yourself.

[211] And I think that often lends itself to a certain personality type.

[212] And there's a few routes there.

[213] But it's a curious one to me, because I couldn't stand to be myself in my bedroom, if that makes sense.

[214] You know, I had to get out and get some approval from people, anyone passing by.

[215] I know exactly what you mean.

[216] I feel like I'm not quite that.

[217] You're not the stereotype of that.

[218] I'm not.

[219] And people assume that because I talk about magic a lot and I'm such a proponent of it, that therefore I'm as skilled as a Derek Dogadio or someone.

[220] And my actual skill level is talk show magic.

[221] I can know I'm going to go on Ellen and that she'll want me to do a trick.

[222] And I can reach out to my friend Jonathan Bame at Theory 11.

[223] We can work together on what singular thing I can do that makes me look very magic.

[224] Right, right.

[225] I wasn't one of those kids that sat for hours doing cardistry and learning one -handed cuts and flourishes.

[226] And I find all that wildly impressive.

[227] But I actually think that speaks to sort of more who I am, which is more director, host to show people cool things, as opposed to to be the cool thing that people watch.

[228] Yeah.

[229] You're basically a gateway or an ambassador for things that are kind of niche.

[230] 100%.

[231] I was the president of the Magic Castle for three years and helped when they were in real financial straits.

[232] I championed and sort of spearheaded a pivot with that place.

[233] And now it's doing really well, not singularly.

[234] do to me, but I was in the trenches and helped kind of go through it.

[235] I don't have a business degree.

[236] Right.

[237] And I don't really have a magic act.

[238] But I was a member of the junior magicians there.

[239] And then I got to be on the board of directors, mainly because they liked a celebrity to be on the board of directors.

[240] Because Perry Grant was on the board of directors there before.

[241] So that seemed like a cool thing.

[242] And I was told I had to do very little.

[243] Once a month, I went to a meeting.

[244] I thought, great, I'm on the board of directors of the Magic Castle.

[245] Then they asked me to be the vice president, which meant nothing except I was the vice president.

[246] Okay.

[247] ceremonial.

[248] But then the president quit.

[249] And then I was suddenly the president of the Magic Castle.

[250] And so now, imposter syndrome, very important.

[251] Now I'm like, oh, I can't show my cards, as it were, and reveal myself to be an actor.

[252] Exactly right.

[253] And so I worked really, really hard and took it really seriously, but to be an ambassador of.

[254] I'm not a businessman, right?

[255] So I had to use what skills I could.

[256] Probably one of my good skills is being sort of an arbiter listening to.

[257] both sides, not passing judgment immediately, trying to chess out what the best solution will be given circumstances, and then turn it around.

[258] What was the novel direction that you steered it in?

[259] What was the thing that helped it?

[260] My frustration with the place is you have to be dressed up.

[261] That's what keeps me out of there.

[262] See, that's interesting.

[263] And for a hot minute, we talked about reducing the dress code.

[264] Because right now, gentlemen have to wear jackets and ties and some sort of formal -ish footwear, which becomes problematic when people come and they're ballers and they're wearing sneakers that are super nice and really valuable and they're not allowed in.

[265] So that was a concern, but I do value that in the same way you go see sleep no more in New York and everyone dons the same mask, that you're creating sort of a uniformity of style and elegance, that then when you're sitting at dinner or you're watching a show, you feel almost as if you're in a throwback to a certain time.

[266] It's a way for the guests to participate in the fantasy.

[267] My issue with the castle was that when a guest goes to the castle, they have to know a member in order to get in, they get a reservation.

[268] The reservation requires them to eat dinner.

[269] The dinner was historically not very delicious and very expensive.

[270] Right.

[271] So that was my big concern because it's a terrible business model.

[272] I should say it was a terrible business model because then people would finally be able to go to this place that they'd heard a lot about.

[273] Yes.

[274] And by the time they left, they felt like they had spent an undue amount of money.

[275] and didn't enjoy themselves, and they would never want to come back again.

[276] So you have to reverse that.

[277] We had to look at the food and beverage situation a lot, and we had to look at valet.

[278] That fee could be reduced if we controlled it ourselves instead of an outside vendor.

[279] So I wanted to make sure, in a very Walt Disney -ish...

[280] It's all making me think of Club 31.

[281] 33.

[282] Yeah, yeah.

[283] Well, not even Club 33, but the Disney theme park experience.

[284] Like, you want all of those points to feel fun.

[285] The fact that they say it's a 45 -minute wait for this ride, when it's actually maybe 30.

[286] And then when you get to the end, you're like, wow, that was 45.

[287] That was great.

[288] That felt faster than 45.

[289] You're in a good mood.

[290] Wait, is that a trick they do?

[291] I think so, yeah.

[292] Oh, my God, the magic doesn't stop at the Magic Kingdom.

[293] But you're right, because you're going to drop a fucking bundle.

[294] We were just there.

[295] And that car ride home, you better go like, you know what?

[296] I'm going to remember this day for the rest of my life.

[297] What's that price worth a lot?

[298] We improved the salary for the magicians, which was bad.

[299] And a lot of great magicians wouldn't want to work.

[300] because you're losing money if you have assistance and props and things you have to transfer there.

[301] So, yeah, we went through all of it with a fine -tooth comb.

[302] That was right when they had a fire.

[303] I don't know if you remember, but there was a big fire that Magic Castle almost burned down.

[304] And so we had to shut the place down.

[305] And it was then that we upgraded a whole bunch of stuff.

[306] It's doing really well now.

[307] Did you enjoy it?

[308] You said you were there recently.

[309] It wasn't recent.

[310] It was probably eight years ago.

[311] Kristen wanted to go.

[312] Kristen also likes magic.

[313] And I, of course, had a debate about the slacks I was wearing whether or not they were dressed.

[314] You know, all my stuff.

[315] If I could have just got with the program, I'm sure it would have been much better.

[316] You felt like it was classist.

[317] I have a chip on my shoulder about dressing up.

[318] Anyways, I do want to ask you this because it just made me think, of course they appointed you president.

[319] And of course they felt safe in your direction.

[320] And it made me wonder, I think we might have opposite things.

[321] So I exclusively played dumbasses for like the first six years of working.

[322] And people generally were shocked to find out I wasn't a dumbass.

[323] I can't tell you how many times people said like, oh my God, I can't believe you're smart or whatever.

[324] I do wonder, do you think you might have absorbed the Dugie Houser of it all?

[325] Do you think people like generally overestimate or at least estimate higher intelligence?

[326] Because that feels likely.

[327] That's interesting.

[328] And you are smart.

[329] I'm not saying you're clearly smart.

[330] If anything, it wasn't really intelligent or unintelligent.

[331] The Dugie Houser thing for me was more all -American, good, sweet guy.

[332] Yeah.

[333] Who you wanted your child to be like.

[334] And that sort of kept me from feeling like I could.

[335] smoke cigarettes or go be high on acid at a festival or something.

[336] Yeah, that's probably what rattled people's brains.

[337] Like, what the fuck is this guy doing?

[338] In my own way, I think it created this imposter syndrome scenario, which I'd still feel at 49 years old.

[339] And even that story of discussing being the president of the Magic Castle and crowing about the fact that I did a good job, it was still under the conceit of they were going to figure out that I was an actor and that this was all fake and that the house of cards part in the magic metaphor would come crashing down.

[340] But isn't that obviously PTSD from being gay?

[341] Having this global fear, the real me will be found out.

[342] We just had Gerard Carmichael on and just him walking us through the kind of hourly interaction of I can't let them find out.

[343] Like how much brain power that took an awareness at all times.

[344] I can't imagine that not extending.

[345] Which he only now knows the weight of having come out.

[346] Like, I don't think he knew exactly how much it was taking up.

[347] Right.

[348] He's even like, I can smile in photos now.

[349] I never smiled in photos because I was afraid smiling made me look gay.

[350] It's like, okay, wow.

[351] Yeah.

[352] So now go back and think about how many thousands of photos?

[353] There was there thousands of moments in his life where it crossed his mind don't smile.

[354] I could see that in certain ways.

[355] I think for me it's less gay.

[356] straight and more like familial.

[357] It's probably from my mother feeling the same way and behaving the same way.

[358] We came from small town, New Mexico, to California at an age where we didn't as a family want to be thought of as now a family where the parents were taking my money or that we were drinking the Hollywood Kool -Aid, that we were still outsiders living in the valley, not in Hollywood proper.

[359] You know, like we took on the guys of outsider.

[360] And so now that I'm a grown -up with kids of my own, it's really only being a parent that I do reflect on that.

[361] And I could certainly see I didn't dance much when I was younger.

[362] The school dances made me very uncomfortable and going out clubbing with Steven Dorf and like my friends with my fake ID at the Viper Room.

[363] Yeah.

[364] I'd stand on the corner and look cool in my vintage jacket, but I wouldn't dance.

[365] And now that I'm a grown -up, I just want everyone to feel like they're in a position to want to dance because dancing is super fun.

[366] And so often guys, I think maybe more than girls, there's a posturing that regardless of sexuality it exists.

[367] Listen, the only reason girls liked me, I was one of three dudes in a whole junior high that would dance at our dances.

[368] That's it.

[369] That was my whole recipe.

[370] I was willing to dance.

[371] I'd say if I got one piece of advice for any young man, it's just dance.

[372] And also not give a shit if people make fun of you.

[373] That's right.

[374] You have to have a good line.

[375] You can't just say, well, fuck you back.

[376] You have to have some sort of retort that would be a good one.

[377] I tell my kids to say, why are you so interested in watching me dance?

[378] What is that?

[379] That's good.

[380] Okay, we'll workshop it.

[381] I think it's pretty darn common for folks that we talk to that have imposterous syndrome.

[382] I certainly had it tremendously, especially at the beginning of getting work, thinking I got to act like I belong here.

[383] I got to act like I know what's going on.

[384] I don't know what's going on.

[385] I don't know if I am qualified to do this.

[386] I don't know if I deserve this.

[387] All those things, it's so common.

[388] I wonder, do you think because there's not like a very traditional apprenticeship roadmap, earn your stripes, belts and karate, that our occupation is a little weird and that someone on day two could book a great show?

[389] The career itself is so transient and random.

[390] And I feel like a lot of people have a sense of dissatisfaction with the level at which they are.

[391] I found that especially true in Southern California.

[392] People would be just grinding, trying to get an agent, getting an agent, then trying to get two lines on a show and driving all day to multiple auditions and finally getting a show, but the pilot doesn't go.

[393] And then you're back into, and then finally getting a pilot that goes, but it's opposite dancing with the stars and no one watches and it's canceled.

[394] And you finally get to the Emmys, but you don't win.

[395] You finally get to the Emmys and you win and you go to the very fair party, but there's another room you can't get into that everyone's.

[396] in.

[397] There's all these seeming levels that probably create a bit of that impostery vibe as well.

[398] But I've been doing this for a long, long time.

[399] I've bounced from different job to job and different skill set to skill set.

[400] And so I do feel Jack of all trady in a way by choice.

[401] I don't want to be doing the same gig, the same type of job, even as an actor.

[402] I like to bounce all over the place.

[403] And so I don't feel like I'm an expert of much.

[404] I'm a person.

[405] I'm a parent now, I feel like you have to declare things with more sincerity than before.

[406] I have embossers and I'm sitting with you two right now.

[407] Tell me how.

[408] Because as a listener of your show, you often have people on who you have brought on to be experts in things, who have singular perspectives that you guys go, oh, that's fantastic.

[409] How do you think I feel talking to all these people?

[410] So this morning, before I came here, I'm literally in our garage, which I've turned into a workshop with power tools, and I'm trying to finally build something out of wood.

[411] One piece of sheet, what is it called?

[412] Plywood, then two by fours, and no, one by four.

[413] I have never felt dumber in my life.

[414] Watching this video, it's for beginners.

[415] He says, you might want to use a jigsaw for this, and I say, great, I have a jigsaw.

[416] And I go and get it, there's no blades.

[417] Right.

[418] You got to pull the little tab up to slide it in.

[419] You're like, that can't be in, can't it?

[420] That can't be it.

[421] It's still moving around.

[422] inside the thing.

[423] I might as well try it.

[424] It's been a disaster for three days.

[425] So expert up little.

[426] Please don't watch a video.

[427] If there's anything you can figure out, it's building something with wood.

[428] It's right angles.

[429] You got the saws.

[430] You'll use the wrong one.

[431] You use the right.

[432] Because if you get something that's even remotely level standing on four legs, you're going to feel like, fuck those Emmys.

[433] Fuck the Tony.

[434] I'm telling you, there's a pride of man or a woman can get by assembling something.

[435] out of their mind without any instruction that literally lasts four or five hours, which is huge for me. Anything that can last that long, that's an eternity.

[436] In the world of Instagram and TikTok and YouTube videos, there are so many hacks and tutorials that make things that should be challenging simple.

[437] And so I feel it's in my nature to not want to fail consistently at something only to find out that all I had to do was pull the little lever in order to get the thing to happen, and it took me so long.

[438] I would rather watch the video and go, oh, okay, I buy these things, these tools.

[439] Here's a trick.

[440] Oh, I need that trick.

[441] And then I can begin with a modicum of knowledge.

[442] I don't want to just caveman myself around.

[443] We just fast forwarded to year four of therapy.

[444] We're there.

[445] I know right now from that story.

[446] For Neil.

[447] All about me. I'm going to ask you a couple questions.

[448] Would you advise your daughter to watch a YouTube tutorial on how to draw a cloud?

[449] I wouldn't singularly say that, no. Would you ask her to watch a tutorial to do any coloring?

[450] Well, I'm going to object to your line of questions.

[451] You think you know where I'm going, so you're trying to head me off at the past.

[452] But let's just answer these questions.

[453] Would you ever want your kids to be instructed on how to be creative?

[454] No, that question would be absolutely not.

[455] But if they came to me to say, how do I draw a cloud, I wouldn't say you must watch a video.

[456] However, if they were watching videos of cloud drawing and it inspired them, them to try it themselves, then I find that super valid and valuable.

[457] It's a nuanced answer to your question.

[458] But yes, we raised our kids with this Rye technique so that we didn't say, this is a ball.

[459] The ball goes in the hoop so that they could decide what the ball was to them.

[460] I appreciate the creativity on its own.

[461] But I feel like with a pneumatic staple gun, Dax Jackson, you need to know like where the fucking thing goes into this thing.

[462] Why would you not treat yourself with the same love, desire, and support that you'd give to your kids.

[463] You already said it in your sentence.

[464] You said, I don't want to get it wrong 45 times.

[465] I don't want to fail 45 times.

[466] Neil, let's fail.

[467] Let's fucking get into it.

[468] Let's blow it.

[469] Let's fail.

[470] There could be some real freedom on the other side of this.

[471] That's why you built a goddamn shop, but now you're short -cutting what the point of the shop was.

[472] Right, but if you're going to build a workshop tax, then you want to be aware of the fact that dust collection is a thing that exists.

[473] You don't want to only find out the dust -collecting a because for months you've been sitting in all this dust.

[474] So as I'm building the workshop, I'm trying to make it all happen at the same time.

[475] But I totally hear you.

[476] And it's my flop sweaty, nervous place that I try to avoid.

[477] And yet it's the thing that I seem to continue to do a lot in my life is put myself in positions that are unknown to me that make me feel flop sweaty and learn.

[478] Because I do believe that we should all fail.

[479] I really sincerely believe that if we try to fail, we will then learn more than if we keep trying to succeed.

[480] Okay, Monica, I've kept you at bay.

[481] One, you're obviously a perfectionist.

[482] That's part of this, right?

[483] I am too, so I can relate.

[484] Two, Dax, it's not up to you to tell Neil that that's a creative endeavor he wants to pursue.

[485] Maybe that's not creative to him.

[486] Maybe he just wants the result of that, and the best way to do that is to watch a video and figure it out.

[487] Three, I think it's more about your therapy.

[488] Always.

[489] And that you don't like asking for help, and it doesn't seem like you, Neil, have a problem asking for help.

[490] I agree with you.

[491] But in this case, which I think you've assessed us both correctly, the medicine, if you're our therapist, would be to make me take help and watch the video and for Neil to do it on his own.

[492] That would be the submersion therapy here.

[493] But when it's building something like, you could get hurt.

[494] Oh, he's not going to get hurt.

[495] He's not a dumb ass.

[496] He's not going to fucking put your, hey, here's the video.

[497] Don't put your fingers in front of anything moving.

[498] The crayons don't have a saw at that.

[499] end of it, that they could chop their hands.

[500] He's not cutting down an oak tree in his backyard.

[501] It's very interesting because I agree with both of you 100 % in different ways.

[502] Because I totally agree that we live in a brilliant technological world now where you can really literally just ask your phone for like tips on how to install a jigsaw blade.

[503] And it'll give it to you in a YouTube video that's two minutes long and it's exactly what you need.

[504] And I think that's brilliant.

[505] At the same time, I never went to shop class in school.

[506] And so when you're dealing with some of these things, that feel like life lessons that you maybe should have known, that you should have learned.

[507] Some things like building a box, it feels like there is a way to do it.

[508] And while you can create your own box however you want to, it's nice to know how, like the Nick Offerman of it all.

[509] The fact that it seems studied and seems like he retains information.

[510] And I wonder whether he started it just fucking around putting shit together or whether he started it by studying the trees.

[511] and seeing how they expand.

[512] I think I figured out our way through this.

[513] Okay, let's go.

[514] Which is obvious in any endeavor, which is what's the goal of this wood shop?

[515] That's the question to answer.

[516] If the goal is for you to make a beautiful rocking chair, then yes, you should watch the video.

[517] That's a really, really valid and great question.

[518] If the goal is for you to find a side of yourself that you've never explored, I work with wood.

[519] No one ever taught me. It gives me a certain amount of joy.

[520] The same way if someone gave you the answer to a trivia question.

[521] It wouldn't be that rewarding to deliver the answer because someone told you.

[522] I think it's conceivable that the thing you're after, that it might be antithetical to be instructed on it.

[523] That's my two cents.

[524] For me, it's more, I don't like the feeling of back to where we started, of you're the dumbass, you should know it's this simple thing, and that's how it works.

[525] I don't like the feeling of, wow, I'm really having trouble with this singular thing and have someone say, uh, you just flip this switch and then it stops doing that.

[526] And you go, oh, uh, that was it.

[527] Sorry.

[528] So maybe I want to avoid that feeling.

[529] We might share this greatly.

[530] My biggest fear in life is you finding out I'm a dumbass.

[531] Because I had dyslexia as a kid, I am actively trying to convince you.

[532] I'm a genius every second of the day.

[533] It's exhausting.

[534] And my big fear is that I would be in a crowd of people and I would have been exposed to just have been an idiot.

[535] It's huge for me. Do you have any fear of that?

[536] A little bit.

[537] My biggest fear is inadvertently making someone else feel bad or like they've done something wrong.

[538] Or when I feel like I've done something right, and then it turns out someone was upset by it, and it turns out it was bad.

[539] I remember being a kid in middle school, and I was head of the band, and my friend who was the cheerleader, we were doing the pep rally.

[540] We were kind of in charge of the pep rally, and we had thought it through, and we had the night before planned some sort of sketches where the band talked to the cheerleading department, and we did it, and I thought everyone loved it, and we finished, and we felt good about it, and then we were called into the social study teachers class and he said he was so embarrassed and sort of said why would you do that and you should be ashamed of yourself what and that's not how you conduct yourself i know i was god's it was that feeling of pride and feeling like i thought i'd done something good to be told that that was a bad thing that happens in everyone's lives a few times but that's the feeling i like to try and avoid so that situation feels like it could be scary in that like oh do i not have the self -awareness i think i have This is a fun therapy session for me because I'm in it with those kind of questions right now.

[541] My main question right now, and I'm curious what your guys' answer to this is, is I'm struggling with bandwidth.

[542] I'm struggling with figuring out in a busy life what to choose.

[543] And when I talk to my own therapist about this, the easy answer, which is the right answer and truthful is that there is no right thing to choose.

[544] There is no right or wrong.

[545] You pick one and you do your best and you handle the ramifications of the things that you didn't do.

[546] But that's easy to say.

[547] Yeah.

[548] because I've been filming in the UK and I've just come back and there's all of these projects I'm looking forward to doing like building a thing in the workshop and there's a family to hang out with and spend quality time with because I've been away from that.

[549] There's a hedgemaids to plan for Christ's sake.

[550] For sure, and that's bandwidth too, right?

[551] Because you have to literally draw out a hedgemaids, figure it out, and that takes time.

[552] And then there's also emails to respond to and podcasts to do and Instagram to sort of keep up with.

[553] And so I'm finding that I don't know how to manage the bandwidth.

[554] Sometimes I wonder, should I have one day of the week be this?

[555] I wish I had more structure, but then I wonder if by planting structure, you're in turn creating arbitrariness, that then is going to be complicated as well.

[556] So I think that I overthink it all, but I do question, how do you guys manage the bandwidth when there's so much of it?

[557] Maybe I take on too much.

[558] I feel like I say no to so much.

[559] And yet here I am all day going, oh, my God, it's already time for dinner.

[560] I've done so little, I think, and I didn't do the things I wanted to do, and I somehow didn't do the things that I was supposed to do.

[561] Yeah, what did I do?

[562] And I can simultaneously look back and think I did a lot, but I didn't do a lot, and I didn't do other things that I probably needed to do.

[563] And that's wrapping me up.

[564] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[565] We've all been there, turning to the internet to self -diagnose.

[566] are inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[567] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[568] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[569] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[570] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[571] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[572] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[573] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[574] What's up, guys?

[575] This your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[576] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment.

[577] It's best and brightest, okay?

[578] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[579] And I don't mean just friends.

[580] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[581] The list goes on.

[582] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[583] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[584] All right, first of all, I'm overwhelmed by how good looking you are.

[585] Like, watching you talk in this close -up, you have incredible structure.

[586] Yeah, it's beautiful.

[587] Yeah.

[588] Okay.

[589] Have you read that book Essentialism?

[590] No. It's a great book.

[591] It was one of the most recommended books, and it is super helpful for people exactly what you're talking about right now.

[592] I already kind of am a little bit the way they were urging you to be to a fault.

[593] I choose one thing at a time to do.

[594] I don't really struggle with it as bad, but that book for certain you should read it because it's really about that.

[595] I think your personality, though, is great in that you don't feel you're going to disappoint someone.

[596] Or maybe you might, but you don't care.

[597] If you have to say no to someone, you have to say no. You don't feel the pressure of, I have to say yes to this person, I have to do this.

[598] Well, what I would argue is that I actually am so overwhelmed if I've told someone I'm going to do something.

[599] The thought of not doing it is so painful to me that I basically don't say I'll do anything for anybody.

[600] I basically don't allow myself to get on the hook because it is so overwhelming.

[601] This just happened.

[602] Mind you, it was the greatest result.

[603] Our friends asked me to officiate the wedding.

[604] I'm like, yeah, great.

[605] as it approached, I'm like, oh my God, my speech has to be perfect.

[606] I have to make this the best wedding that's ever been done.

[607] It starts taking over my life and I've got to be perfect for them and the whole nine yards.

[608] Mind you, it was great and I'm so glad I did it.

[609] But in general, if I have a few of those out there, it kind of stunts me and I feel overwhelmed and I actually can't really be that productive.

[610] I know myself well enough that's like I can commit to three things and I'm going to deliver on those.

[611] Beyond that, I'm going to not and it's going to murder me inside.

[612] And I just can't do it.

[613] I'll end up doing less.

[614] I think you and Kristen are very similar because you guys are both actually good people.

[615] That's your Achilles a little bit.

[616] You're worried about people.

[617] You said your biggest fear would be making someone else feel stupid or making someone else feel bad or judged.

[618] That's not my disposition, but that's Kristen.

[619] And she is super competent like you.

[620] So she can juggle 8 ,000 things.

[621] And it's really hard to know.

[622] Can she juggle 8 ,0002 or 7 ,900, right?

[623] Because it's a staggering amount.

[624] You've invented a fucking board game.

[625] You've written two books.

[626] You've got three more that you've got to do.

[627] You've hosted the Emmys, hosted the Oscars.

[628] You've been in the longest running TV show.

[629] Like, you've done every single thing, as you said, in every little category.

[630] So you could get misled into thinking, I probably can juggle 8 ,010.

[631] There's a lot of things.

[632] And I think it's a challenge.

[633] And I guess it's an always challenge of trying to stay in the moment and in the pocket of what you're currently doing.

[634] Because I did this uncoupled series for Netflix.

[635] With that comes press for that, which I've, I'm excited because the press means that hopefully people will watch it, but doing the press means that you're then doing that instead of other things.

[636] So you don't want to be away from this while you're doing that.

[637] So it is a little hard to just try and commit to the thing that you're currently doing because when you're in a workshop and you're screwing up making a right angle on a piece of wood, then I'm also simultaneously thinking, why am I even doing this at all right now?

[638] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[639] Why aren't I swimming in the pool?

[640] I love escape rooms.

[641] I love escape room boxes.

[642] and I think it's because I love that there's all kinds of problems within it and often they're clever in that you can sort of find them and have a lot of aha moments of, oh, this must go with that.

[643] And wait a second, I've got it.

[644] By Jove, I've got it.

[645] But then at the end of the day, you can solve it and then you can leave the room.

[646] And I think life is not quite a structure.

[647] Yeah, you have less control.

[648] I tend to not necessarily need the control of it all, But I like to think in my mind that if A and B and C and D were to happen, then that would be a successful solution.

[649] And oftentimes there is no A, B, C, or D to create any successful solution at all.

[650] Do you have a fear that if you get off the hamster wheel, you won't be let back on?

[651] Like, I feel like that's driving a lot of people is if I stop completely, if I say no to the press, if I do this, I won't get the opportunities again.

[652] I don't feel that.

[653] Oh, well, good.

[654] That's a huge, yeah, that's a huge win.

[655] Yeah, I've been very fortunate with lots and lots of opportunity, and it's great.

[656] If anything, I probably said yes to too many things in the way that Dax was saying just to sort of prove that I can do it.

[657] Flattered that they're asking me. So, yes, I would love to host an award show because that sounds like fun and hard, but I'll try and make it look effortless.

[658] That will be great.

[659] Instead of saying, like, no, I'm good.

[660] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[661] So I think I'm saying, no, I'm good more often.

[662] I think I'm going to pivot from actor to director more so that it's less of the, waiting around and being a single thing that people want for a hot minute to regurgitate a thing for a while and instead be the builder of the workbench instead of the piece of wood.

[663] Yeah.

[664] You said you'd like to hop around.

[665] How did you navigate being on how I met your mother for nine years?

[666] Was that at all challenging?

[667] No, that was like the dream job because it was a multi -camera show but not filmed in front of a live studio audience.

[668] Oh, wow.

[669] So we had a great life.

[670] Four days a week we would work.

[671] And the first day was sort of a table read and then hang out and do costume fittings.

[672] And then for three days, we would just block and shoot it like it was a sitcom.

[673] So it wasn't a lot of fourth walls and moving cameras into positions.

[674] It was sort of having fun making the crew laugh.

[675] And it was a really great group of people in front of the camera and behind.

[676] So Pam Fryman, who's a wonderful woman and a great director, was the head of it all.

[677] And so she was a great friend, a great person to just coexist with.

[678] And Barney Stinson as a character, he got to wear cool suits, he got to have all kinds of catchphrases, he got to be the life of the party.

[679] That's the kind of role one hopes to get.

[680] You don't want to be the ass of the joke.

[681] You want to make the joke in that sitcom world.

[682] Yeah.

[683] Now, when I look at your career, what I see is, A, just a ton of different talent in a lot of different areas, which is staggering in its own right, but also some flexibility, some challenges.

[684] You've had cycles, right?

[685] You come off Doogie Hauser and you're kind of fucked.

[686] Not many people are kind of coming out of that.

[687] As you said, people would meet you and think you must be one of the cleavers or something.

[688] That was 1992.

[689] So when you were done with the TV show, you weren't then welcomed into the movie world.

[690] It was a big divide between the two.

[691] Yes.

[692] So it was hard to try and break free from just the television ideal.

[693] You know, I had the funny name of Doogie and was still sort of looked young in my own skin.

[694] So it wasn't as if I was a type that could then go on and do another thing.

[695] I sort of had to sit and wait for another wave to come.

[696] Yeah, and then it seems that being in Harold and Kumar kind of shattered that for you a bit.

[697] Well, I suppose in a certain way, you were crazy and dangerous.

[698] But Harold and Kumar was meta in that way.

[699] So they designed it to be sort of an alt version of what people were expecting me to be.

[700] And in turn, by taking the piss out of that, it made it seem like, oh, okay, he's not precious about his past.

[701] In between, that was a lot of theater, which I turned to, and that was very helpful because it kept me from standing still on Dugie Hauser.

[702] It was like a medical Stephen Botchko show, so it was very single camera.

[703] And if you decided in the rehearsal of the scene that you wanted to walk across and sit on the couch, that meant a lot more work for the crew and then move things around.

[704] And so you just learned to pretty much stand still, not move your arms or like much and stay at a close -up.

[705] Yeah.

[706] And so then I didn't know how to move my body.

[707] So I think for me, the big thing was I got cast in Rent, the hip East Village musical Rent.

[708] There were rent -heads fans that stood outside.

[709] A million miles from Dugie's Hospital.

[710] I was cast as Mark Cohen in the second national tour of that that started in San Diego at La Jolla Playhouse and then went to L .A. And so we had a whole new company of that, and I got to bleach my hair blonde and hang out with all kinds of interesting people and feel full body, but also kind of relevant.

[711] Yeah.

[712] Like Rent was still kind of hip.

[713] It's still a musical theater show, but rock band on stage and sort of singing at people with nail polish.

[714] It was pretty dope.

[715] So that turned the corner for me from feeling like I was in this little bubble that I couldn't get out of.

[716] So it was sort of more TV to theater and then, I guess, a little bit to film.

[717] I think it's helpful in life to be a bit flexible with your identity.

[718] It's really easy to snap into these different identities in this occupation, I'm sure, and others.

[719] But definitely, like, as you said, well, I'm a TV actor.

[720] Okay, so that's who I am.

[721] I'm not going to movies.

[722] Well, I could go to stage.

[723] And I think the flexibility is inspiring.

[724] Did you ever feel locked into an identity?

[725] And it was actually hard for you to let it go and embrace another one.

[726] No, not at all.

[727] Not hard for me to let go of a singular identity.

[728] I think because Doogie happened at such a young age, I was very aware that there were lots of stories of child actors that had a singular moment and then never existed again professionally.

[729] And I wanted to do a lot of things.

[730] And so that was something that I didn't want to happen.

[731] So I was pretty voracious in my appetite to try new things, both professionally and personally.

[732] Like I said before, I don't love the flop sweat, confrontational.

[733] I'm not sure where I am.

[734] It's what I have recurring dreams about of being in a different school and not knowing how to get the class about to go on stage and do a show that I'm ill -prepared for.

[735] But I do like doing it because I do think that one shouldn't become complacent in what they do.

[736] And I don't think that there's an age with which one is an expert at something.

[737] I think there's lots of room for growth.

[738] And as an actor, there's radical change you can make.

[739] I mean, I've played all kinds of different things all over the place.

[740] And I do that purposefully for both myself to see that I can play an old man, a transgendered woman, a straight guy.

[741] But I also do it for an audience.

[742] I hope that when people see that I'm a part of something, they're not going to go, oh, this is going to be that kind of thing.

[743] But they're kind of turned on.

[744] Oh, yeah, by who he's going to be this time.

[745] Let's see what happens.

[746] He was good in the last seven things.

[747] I have that for you.

[748] The thing I really fell in love with you on came by way of my children, which is a series of unfortunate events.

[749] First of all, that show is so awesome.

[750] I can't believe what a good, quote, kid show that.

[751] Have you seen any of that?

[752] I haven't.

[753] Oh, my God.

[754] Like the world they created, the way it's Shaw.

[755] It's so beautiful.

[756] Saunenfeld did all of that.

[757] Oh, he did?

[758] Yeah, and Barry's an unbelievable human being and a visualuteur.

[759] He shot all the Coen Brother movies originally, yeah.

[760] He did Men in Black films, and he has a real specific style.

[761] And so he wanted me to play this Count Olaf guy.

[762] Are you familiar with the books at all?

[763] Daniel Handler books, they were called A Series of Unfortunate Events.

[764] And each book, it's about these children, and you think things will be good for them, these orphans, and they're being chased around by this horrible man. who's trying to steal their money.

[765] And each book is just ridiculous and absurd in how bad things get for these kids.

[766] And within it, there are some fun lessons.

[767] But I played the Count Olaf.

[768] And so it was lots of aesthetics and lots of different characters and lots of different voices.

[769] I got to do all sort of crazy things that you would not expect.

[770] And that was fun.

[771] You were fucking great.

[772] And it was one of those things, I'm sure you've had this where you're like, you're walking into the living room.

[773] You don't know what your kids are watching.

[774] And I'm like, oh, what's this?

[775] Oh, my God.

[776] They're watching a show that shot beautifully.

[777] This is weird.

[778] How'd this happened.

[779] And then you're walking to the living.

[780] You pop on and I'm like, oh my God, this is delicious.

[781] This character is so fantastic.

[782] Did that prosthetic stuff drive you mad or are you fine with it?

[783] You're in the chair for a while, huh?

[784] Yeah, I was like hour and a half, two hours every morning.

[785] What did you do with that two hours?

[786] I think about lines of the day.

[787] I also feel like checking out of that process was not helpful because there were two people that were putting on all these pieces of prosthesis.

[788] And that's a very technical process.

[789] And I'm a very technical actor who's very process driven.

[790] So I loved when I was growing up.

[791] up the prosthetic makeup and the special effects makeup and had a little kit and I would do burns and bullet wounds and stuff myself.

[792] So I think the actor sitting in the chair falling asleep or watching TV and being sort of passive isn't super helpful.

[793] So I would try and work with them and make sure I was facing the right direction and being a part of it, sort of becoming another person for a little while.

[794] If I got tired and cranky, that was helpful because the role was he was such a dick.

[795] Do you remember flying with me?

[796] I want to say we were all going to Michigan.

[797] And I couldn't figure out why you guys would be going to Michigan.

[798] Is your husband from Michigan or something?

[799] Yes, he is from Michigan.

[800] Oh, wow.

[801] Yeah, me and Kristen had our kids.

[802] You had your kids.

[803] And, you know, kids in an airport.

[804] And this is a while ago, so they're all little kids.

[805] I think I do remember this.

[806] And we were like, what the fuck are you guys going to Michigan for?

[807] We're both from Michigan.

[808] So we were just perplexed.

[809] We're like, we would know if you were from Michigan.

[810] Yeah, David's from Canton.

[811] Oh, Plymouth Canton area.

[812] I know it well.

[813] Went to U of M. Go Blue.

[814] Oh, he did.

[815] Oh, he's smart then.

[816] That's hard to get into UFM.

[817] He studied musical theater.

[818] Let's not go crazy.

[819] Okay, he's not that smart.

[820] Is he a lawyer, though?

[821] What is he?

[822] David?

[823] Yeah, no?

[824] No, he was actor and then became a bit of a chef.

[825] Went to LaCourt on Blue and studied the chefery, had a catering company in L .A. Had a cookbook that came out, like a party cookbook, and now he's back to acting.

[826] Oh, wonderful.

[827] Yeah, he's awesome.

[828] Can we take a little detour?

[829] Left turn, yeah.

[830] Left turn, detour?

[831] I thought you were going to say P -break, but I like detour better.

[832] I thought about that, too, in the middle of it.

[833] Why are there so many children's sagas about orphans?

[834] That's a recurring theme.

[835] We've got box card children.

[836] Annie.

[837] We've got Narnia.

[838] We've got unfortunate events.

[839] It's a thing.

[840] What's your hot take?

[841] Maybe it forces the child to have to behave in potentially adult ways, which is kind of something that kids aspire to do and that adults sort of observe with caution.

[842] That's interesting.

[843] That's a great take.

[844] Like forcing Annie to act like an adult?

[845] I don't know.

[846] What do you think?

[847] I think my take is we love acting out the thing we're most afraid of.

[848] And kids in general, the worst thing that could happen is they wouldn't have their parents anymore.

[849] So there's some kind of weird perverse interest in their darkest fear.

[850] The original horror movie for that.

[851] I mean, a little bit.

[852] And then, you know, Disney, they famously always kill the parents of the lead.

[853] Truth.

[854] Fandy.

[855] Frozen.

[856] Dumbo.

[857] The one I saw.

[858] Literally every single one.

[859] Yeah.

[860] I think every single one.

[861] So you got the kid on the hook, like, oh, my God, what's this kid going to do?

[862] Maybe it is an investment.

[863] It's just like immediately the kids are invested because they're scared.

[864] They're sitting in this situation.

[865] How will they do it?

[866] I just want to say I love that murder scene and Gone Girl was just, I mean, it might be the gnarliest one I've ever seen.

[867] Yeah, getting your throat slit mid -orgasm as designed by David Fincher.

[868] So you're doing it like 45 takes.

[869] Per shot, literally.

[870] Yes.

[871] Pardon the pun.

[872] Oh, my God.

[873] I can't imagine having to do that stuff 45 times.

[874] Of too many takes?

[875] Yeah.

[876] Again, probably imposter syndrome.

[877] Maybe I don't think I'm good enough to be good that long.

[878] But I think David Fincher as a director is such an artist, which sounds kind of pretentious, but truthful because he would spend so much time.

[879] It almost felt that he was chiseling away at every performance and at every visual.

[880] He was equally as interested in.

[881] in the dolly move and the dolly move and the camera move aligning with the actors.

[882] And by doing it seven or eight times, you're happy that you got it.

[883] By doing it 35 times, you're getting it, right?

[884] So by the time you're in the middle of it, it felt more like Tai Chi.

[885] It felt like it wasn't because we were doing anything wrong.

[886] It was because he wanted this flow.

[887] They wouldn't use the clacker.

[888] What was that called?

[889] Where they say, 224B, take one click.

[890] The clapper.

[891] The clapper.

[892] He didn't use a clapper.

[893] So they would just say, and rolling and action.

[894] And then you'd do the scene.

[895] And then they'd say, cut, back to one, we're rolling, and action.

[896] And so you didn't have time to check your bone, to reset.

[897] It just kept happening.

[898] Yeah, I wouldn't have the time to go like, what aren't I doing for him that he needs 10 more?

[899] And he might say to you, Dax, you're doing too much with your eyes.

[900] Don't do that as much with your eyes.

[901] And then you're like, what the fuck is not?

[902] Those two takes are all weirded out.

[903] But then it kind of distills down into these scenes that felt, more truthful than anything that I had worked on before.

[904] And when I go back now and see some of his movies and how that has affected other actors, I find that really interesting to process.

[905] Like, I know he famously had a fight with Jake Gyllenhaal or something that they did not get along on...

[906] Oh, Son of Sam or whatever, that horror movie...

[907] Zodiac.

[908] Zodiac.

[909] And I wonder if it had to do with something about the repetition of it all.

[910] Yeah.

[911] I'm not confident enough.

[912] I loved it.

[913] I loved it, man. As actors, they want us to rush through shit.

[914] right?

[915] They spend an hour and a half lighting a shot, making it look beautiful, adjusting stuff, practicing.

[916] And then they're like, okay, go get the actors.

[917] And they come bang on your door and they let you in and you're like, okay, go, go, go.

[918] Got it good.

[919] And next scene.

[920] Sometimes you think, well, wait a minute.

[921] Give us a second.

[922] Let us try some stuff.

[923] Maybe.

[924] And the fact that he gave equal time, if not more, to the process really did feel empowering.

[925] Like, well, we're really actually making a movie.

[926] And so all of those scenes of having sex with Rosam and Pike over and over and over again.

[927] And he wanted to make sure that when we flopped back on the bed for every take, we flopped into the same positions.

[928] And so that was our job is to make that flop look horny and authentic and individual and not like we had done it before.

[929] So it couldn't look robotic, even though it was wildly robotic.

[930] And that became, I don't know, it was like we were all making the same movie.

[931] So you like being in the creative box.

[932] You like having to figure out how to make something happen.

[933] Are we still talking about Rosamke?

[934] Boom!

[935] We still talking about that scene.

[936] In the box.

[937] I like the process of it all.

[938] I like the stunt team.

[939] I like watching everyone working their best.

[940] And you like the stage, too, which is a lot of choreography.

[941] A Cirque du Soleil show.

[942] Oh, my favorite.

[943] Where you see everyone's working.

[944] It's this big symbiotic relationship of creativity.

[945] That's the dream.

[946] Okay, uncoupled.

[947] The show's created by Jeffrey Richmond and Darren Starr.

[948] I didn't know the full totality.

[949] Like, I knew Darren Starr did sex in the city.

[950] I did not know he did Melrose Place in 90210 .10 .1.

[951] This is impossible.

[952] I forget that, too.

[953] I mostly think younger and Emily and Paris.

[954] Right, but you got to go back to 90210 .0.

[955] That's true.

[956] Let me ask you what the process is.

[957] When you get the call, it's like, okay, Darren's got a show.

[958] He wants you to be in it.

[959] What kind of thoughts do you have?

[960] Did you love any of those shows?

[961] I love 90210.

[962] Did you like sex in the city?

[963] I wasn't a sex in the city guy, really.

[964] That's fair.

[965] I'm an interesting gay in that regard.

[966] I'm not like a golden girl's archetype guy.

[967] I'm not a Sex and the City guy.

[968] You should be banned from all parades, I'm just saying now.

[969] That's sacrosan.

[970] Honestly, I thought about it mostly in terms of bandwidth because doing another series meant potentially it being successful and that means more seasons of it.

[971] And I just had a lot of disparate things on my plate already.

[972] So I was curious because it was filming in New York, which is where we live.

[973] And so that was a big benefit.

[974] of it, it was only half -hour episodes, and there were only eight of them.

[975] So it was the opportunity to do something on Netflix, which is streaming without commercials, which is also helpful when telling a story, and you can then do it in two or three months and be done with the whole season and have the rest of your year to do other things.

[976] That seemed juicy.

[977] It was a gay role about a monogamous gay relationship that then ends very suddenly, and I'm single.

[978] And so I thought being single in New York under Darren Starr's thumb, which I thought could be both funny and kind of sexy.

[979] It's always good at 49 years old to be playing someone who is deemed sexy.

[980] Oh, yeah.

[981] So that seemed kind of cool.

[982] And so it was a lot of that.

[983] Have you played the lead role as a gay man ever?

[984] Not the lead role as a gay man, no. That's curious, right?

[985] There's not a lot of lead shows with gay men.

[986] You know what?

[987] That's an interesting thing, too, because I didn't want this to feel like a super, gay show that would be only on logo TV or something because there's a lot of gay content that sometimes doesn't necessarily have a lot of creative integrity.

[988] It sort of feels like it's just quickly made.

[989] And I didn't want this to be that.

[990] I think it's for everyone.

[991] It's weirdly relatable because a breakup story is always something that people can understand.

[992] Well, I was watching it.

[993] And yeah, the moment where you guys go to couples therapy, but you've already broken up.

[994] And I did that.

[995] I did that for months.

[996] And that feeling in the room and evaluating like, is one of these people in this or not?

[997] Is someone here out of obligation or are both people trying?

[998] That felt incredibly real.

[999] The scene in the first episode, you basically plan this great surprise party for him.

[1000] And then you find out a second before you walk in that he's leaving.

[1001] He's left.

[1002] Yeah, he tells me he's leaving.

[1003] I'd open the door and everyone shout surprise.

[1004] They have to coexist within this party for him.

[1005] Yes.

[1006] Or I have to make a speech for him and say how much I love him and stuff and I know that we've broken up.

[1007] Well, the speech is what I wanted to say was just incredibly beautiful.

[1008] Like, I guess you're not expecting in a half -hour comedy that you're going to get that real moment.

[1009] The moment was so real and wonderful.

[1010] I appreciate you saying that.

[1011] And the tonal shifts with the show are what make it successful, I think.

[1012] And in point of fact, are the things I was most concerned about when we were filming it.

[1013] Because on certain days, I'd be asked to stand there and give a speech and say something to someone that I knew I was never going to spend my life with.

[1014] And that was very easy to channel that emotion because I'm in a long -term relationship with someone that would be terrible if he announced that he was leaving.

[1015] Well, weirdly, it's almost the exact same length.

[1016] You're like 18 years in.

[1017] These two were 17 years in.

[1018] Correct.

[1019] Amund.

[1020] Suspiciously similar?

[1021] Do you think Darren did the math?

[1022] Darren and Jeffrey both.

[1023] And I think Don Roos is one of our writers.

[1024] Wait!

[1025] You know Don Roos?

[1026] He's on the writing staff.

[1027] He's my favorite human being on planet Earth.

[1028] I love Don Roos.

[1029] Like, you can't imagine.

[1030] They're all writing, I think, about experiences that they had.

[1031] And I think because now in 2022, 2023, we're able to have these be mainstream experiences and not have it feel like it's super niche, right?

[1032] Yes.

[1033] And so they were writing with great fervor and passion about stuff.

[1034] But it was weird to have to do that one day.

[1035] And then the next day, funny acting about real estate foibles.

[1036] And I would wonder, like, can we do it all?

[1037] Or it's like, are people not going to know what is happening on this show?

[1038] But I think that's what makes it relatable weirdly, right?

[1039] Because when you're in a breakup, funny things still happen.

[1040] Ridiculous things happen in one's life when they're feeling sad as well.

[1041] So it's not like you have to have a tale where only a singular thing is happening all the time.

[1042] Right.

[1043] I mean, how I met your mother did that.

[1044] I loved that show so much.

[1045] But it had so much heart while some kind of absurd comedy all happening at the same time.

[1046] time, especially Barney.

[1047] That's a really interesting link.

[1048] I didn't even think about that, but totally true.

[1049] When you watch a show like that, you are expecting a comedy.

[1050] So when it becomes heartfelt and Ted's truth about his real feelings about relationship are discussed, it surprises you.

[1051] And maybe by surprising you, it sticks more.

[1052] And I think an uncoupled the same thing happens.

[1053] You're watching a show by the guy who did Emily and Paris, who did 90210.

[1054] Your expectations are probably not that you'll get an emotional sucker punch.

[1055] And yet that happens within the show.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] Your speech is lovely because you're saying something that is so appropriate for both that moment if no one knows you're broken up and if you just got broken up with.

[1058] It like works perfectly and I would never think that those two things are the same.

[1059] But they're the same words in such different moments.

[1060] Yeah, saying, I don't know what my life would be like without you.

[1061] Yes.

[1062] It's something you would say to someone that you're still with.

[1063] It's also something you say to someone when they've just broken up.

[1064] Yeah, minute 25.

[1065] of knowing you're not going to be together.

[1066] Yeah, it's a cool show.

[1067] It feels very bingy.

[1068] I watched all eight of them once they had done a sound edit and the music was not temporary music and it was all completed.

[1069] And I loved them and I felt like by the end I was invested in all of these people in a good way.

[1070] Yeah.

[1071] Which sounds like pitchy shit that you say when you're promoting a new show.

[1072] I get that.

[1073] But the only other show I had done since how I met your mother was a series of unfortunate events.

[1074] They were longer.

[1075] They were like hour -long episodes.

[1076] And so that was more of a commitment.

[1077] I think.

[1078] What's nice about it being a Darren star in Jeffrey Richmond show is that I feel like these will be digested pretty quickly.

[1079] This feels like a show you want to watch fast and see more of it, which makes me happy.

[1080] Yeah, big time.

[1081] You're in a good space, though, because all my favorite shows are the last five, six years.

[1082] Like, Atlanta's everything.

[1083] I don't know what it is.

[1084] It's a comedy.

[1085] It's not.

[1086] It's profound.

[1087] Master of Nunn, I thought, was brilliant and beautiful and emotional and also funny.

[1088] The floor is lava?

[1089] Exactly.

[1090] Yes.

[1091] with our friend Rutledge as the host.

[1092] Exactly the same thing.

[1093] I mean, it's silly.

[1094] They fall around and then, like, they die and then they're dead.

[1095] It's, like, traumatic and also kind of funny.

[1096] I get it.

[1097] I'm surprised people who haven't died.

[1098] People hit their heads and manners on that show where I'm like, did they jump in and rescue the person after that?

[1099] And they play it over and over when it happens.

[1100] Kanked their face right on the...

[1101] Shagaboozum.

[1102] Hey, have you ever had to be naked on a show before?

[1103] Yeah.

[1104] And a scripted thing where you were doing, like, a sex...

[1105] scene?

[1106] Yep.

[1107] I don't want anyone to see my anus ever.

[1108] As long as I live.

[1109] Not the glutes, but the anus.

[1110] The glutes are fine just recently, but the anus, it's often irritated.

[1111] It's not my best feature.

[1112] I know it's a mess.

[1113] And so I'm doing this movie called, this is where I leave you.

[1114] And I know I'm going to have a full nude scene.

[1115] I've signed all that paperwork.

[1116] But I'm thinking, I've seen a lot of lovemaking scenes.

[1117] I've even filmed a few of them myself.

[1118] She'll probably be on top.

[1119] That's the best way to shoot these things.

[1120] Whatever.

[1121] The point is, I get in there and quickly, the director says, okay, so you're on top, we're shooting down here from the ground.

[1122] And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[1123] I said, all you're going to see is my anus.

[1124] And he goes, we're not going to see your anus.

[1125] I promise we're not going to see your anus.

[1126] I'm like, dude, everyone's going to be out there and all you're going to see is my anis.

[1127] No, we're not.

[1128] What were you wearing?

[1129] A crown royal bag over my dick.

[1130] Wow.

[1131] Yeah, it was nice.

[1132] It was a cool look.

[1133] So take one, and it's a long take.

[1134] Bateman comes in.

[1135] we got a whole thing.

[1136] There's some improv.

[1137] We reset.

[1138] And on the reset, Sean, the director comes in and he just takes a piece of sheet that's on the bed.

[1139] And I notice he puts it between my butt cheeks.

[1140] And I go, Levy, you saw my fucking anus, right?

[1141] Everyone was just seeing my anus.

[1142] He goes, don't worry.

[1143] No one's going to see anything now.

[1144] I got this sheet exactly where it needs to me. And I'm like, I knew the thing I most didn't want to happen, happen.

[1145] And that's what you don't like.

[1146] That's what you try to avoid.

[1147] Okay, tell me you're new.

[1148] Did you show your pee -pee?

[1149] No, but I was curious about the Crown Royal bag around your junk because they just provide a bunch of options in your dressing room, you know?

[1150] And some have tape and some have draw strings.

[1151] Yes.

[1152] And I was not sure, and I don't have any real modesty.

[1153] So none of it really bothered me, except that I didn't know the other person.

[1154] Right.

[1155] It was a lot of dating scenes on Grindr style.

[1156] So I would just meet the guy that I was going to be humping.

[1157] and then we'd talk to intimacy coordinator and then start humping.

[1158] I've never had that.

[1159] What happens with that person?

[1160] I thought it would be very strange.

[1161] And in point of fact, it was incredibly helpful.

[1162] It's a person that's there to be the go -between for all sexual conversations, sexual conduct, sexual anything.

[1163] It requires that anything that might happen in the scene needs to be written or expressed, I think, two days before you filmed the scene.

[1164] Right.

[1165] You know, you don't have to write.

[1166] Right in the script, he does this and his hand goes there.

[1167] But in the writer that you film, you say all of the things that could potentially happen.

[1168] So that that's above board.

[1169] Because what you don't want, and I'm a producer on the show as well, is you don't want to be in this weird position where the scene ends with you saying, and then they keep making out and start having sex.

[1170] And that's how the scene ends, right?

[1171] So then you don't know when they're going to say cut.

[1172] You don't know how far you're supposed to take that is sex insertion and now we're walking?

[1173] or is sex just we're rolling around?

[1174] And so as an actor and a producer on it, I can't go to the other guy and say, you're okay if I do this thing, right?

[1175] Because it's a very loaded question.

[1176] Yes, you're the employer in a way.

[1177] If he says no, then I might not want to hire him again from his perspective.

[1178] So he says yes, because he wants to be a team player, but in point of fact, he may be uncomfortable with that.

[1179] And as you guys now know, my least favorite thing is making someone feel unintentionally like that they didn't like something.

[1180] And so the intimacy coordinator is there to make sure that everything is discussed and planned.

[1181] And I thought it would make it all very saccharine and very sterile.

[1182] Like a medical procedure now that you've talked it all through.

[1183] And you do talk it through, but you talk it through in a way that now that you've talked it through, it can still feel sexy.

[1184] But I created a little pouch.

[1185] I named it.

[1186] It's the N .P .H. Oh.

[1187] It's the Neil Pinas folder.

[1188] It's like a very stretchy ring that then they whip stitch that around a mesh bag.

[1189] So you don't have to draw string stuff.

[1190] You just stretch the thing around your he -haw, like slap you in the sinkers, like the whole package.

[1191] Yeah.

[1192] And then you don't have to worry about anything ever.

[1193] You just walk around.

[1194] This is made of mesh?

[1195] No, not mesh so you can see through it, but like skin color, stretchy.

[1196] This is what people wouldn't know if they're not men is that your dick and balls are changing size all day long.

[1197] Like, I don't know if women understand that.

[1198] Your testicles are distending and retracting all day to adjust for your body temperature.

[1199] So you could put that bag on.

[1200] in your trailer.

[1201] It's cold, it's warm, whatever.

[1202] And now you've kind of cinched it up and now the whole thing could be sagging.

[1203] It's a wild ride for that bag.

[1204] The MPAH is nice.

[1205] I recommend it.

[1206] It was very helpful.

[1207] It gave me some confidence.

[1208] Had it the MPAH?

[1209] No, I was thinking about going on Shark Tank.

[1210] Oh, yes.

[1211] I mean, because you're going to have to show ones that don't work.

[1212] There's no point in showing your product unless you show how superior it is.

[1213] Thanks, Shark.

[1214] I'm looking $20 ,000 at 20 %.

[1215] Have you worn a penis package that didn't fit?

[1216] Have you ever had double stick tape attached to your pubic hair?

[1217] What a nightmare that is to remove.

[1218] Please welcome the NPAH.

[1219] That's where I want to be involved, Neil, so you can go, here's the old way.

[1220] And then I'll dance around and stuff and it'll fall off and people laugh and point.

[1221] And then I'll put a different version on it.

[1222] Sometimes you've got do cartwheels in a scene.

[1223] I'll do a cartwheel.

[1224] That thing will come flying off.

[1225] Like, I want to be in that part of it.

[1226] Okay.

[1227] The exhibitionist part.

[1228] Yeah.

[1229] He'll take that on.

[1230] Just got to talk to my wife.

[1231] Just not the anus issue.

[1232] Yeah.

[1233] Everything else is...

[1234] Yeah, car wheels might get a little dicey.

[1235] That's true.

[1236] Mike a little showy.

[1237] That's true.

[1238] Well, Neil Patrick Harris, I adore you.

[1239] I enjoyed seeing you in real life with your family.

[1240] That was fun on that trip to Michigan, which was bewildering to us, Michiganders.

[1241] I'm sure everyone was excited you were there.

[1242] I love Michigan.

[1243] It's pretty damn great.

[1244] In the summertime, it's just can't be beat.

[1245] But I wish you well.

[1246] I loved Uncoupled.

[1247] I hope everyone watches it.

[1248] It is out on Netflix, great pedigree.

[1249] Again, you don't understand.

[1250] Not only did the Melrose and the 9021 -0 -0 creator, the other creator did Wings Frazier Modern Family.

[1251] I mean, this is a fucking dream team.

[1252] Yeah, and Don Roos.

[1253] Number one, Don Roos.

[1254] Can I tell you two of my favorite things I ever heard him say?

[1255] Oh, boy.

[1256] Okay.

[1257] He says a lot of great things.

[1258] Doesn't he?

[1259] Almost everything he says is quotable.

[1260] He said, you know, people are always trying to say he shouldn't be so fearful.

[1261] You shouldn't have so much anxiety.

[1262] Well, listen, the world is this.

[1263] scary place.

[1264] We hosted the Holocaust after all.

[1265] That's true.

[1266] Sad and true.

[1267] Good point.

[1268] This is a gnarly place.

[1269] And he said, I didn't like going outside as a kid.

[1270] That's where they kept all the dirt and the bugs.

[1271] I'm delighted he's in the mix.

[1272] Same.

[1273] He wrote one episode and my character is astonished to hear that the guy he wants to have sex with doesn't want to use a condom and that he's on prep and my character's taken aback and then is on another date with someone else and he's talking about how can you believe it?

[1274] And I was thinking, doesn't my character watch TV?

[1275] Not wearing condoms and taking a pill.

[1276] I know that you might not do it, but that seems a little naive.

[1277] And Don said to me, no, that's truthful.

[1278] I had never known anything like he told me that there was more his particular story and that was actual true.

[1279] And so I thought, well, that's interesting.

[1280] All right.

[1281] Well, fair enough.

[1282] I have to do that.

[1283] Well, Neil, I want two updates from you, okay?

[1284] Yes, sir.

[1285] I want a wood shop update.

[1286] We'll see which direction you went, and we'll find out how satisfying it was or it wasn't.

[1287] And then I got to know if anyone did help you with this room you're sitting in.

[1288] I need to know that person.

[1289] I need to go on their Instagram or whatever it is.

[1290] I need to figure out how to get this room at the next place I live.

[1291] The ceiling panels look like they're made of metal.

[1292] And in point of fact, they are foam tiles that you put on.

[1293] and they're soft, and then you paint them with different layers of metallic paint to look like a copper ceiling, which is a great thing for you because the ceiling makes everything look great.

[1294] Absolutely.

[1295] And probably more sound deafening than the metal would be.

[1296] We have also a love of Disney theme parks.

[1297] I've been listening to Flightless Bird and I'm on Disney too.

[1298] That's flattering.

[1299] He's the greatest, David Ferrier.

[1300] Except for how disrespectfully is for Disney theme park fans.

[1301] He finished that episode and I said to him, did you go to Disneyland?

[1302] He's like, no. And I go, fuck you in this story.

[1303] We're going.

[1304] And we went.

[1305] And he's totally infected.

[1306] And he was wrong.

[1307] Don't worry.

[1308] Please keep us updated on the maze because I want to try out the maze.

[1309] I mostly want to stay at your house for a weekend.

[1310] Can you have us over?

[1311] Can we do that?

[1312] I would love it.

[1313] You are all welcome.

[1314] It's called Funhouse Farm.

[1315] And originally it was a place that carnival people went to back in the wintertime when they weren't traveling around.

[1316] And when they were infirm or.

[1317] had aged out or were kind of evading the law.

[1318] And the story goes that the township of East Hampton had found out that too many people were living here that it wasn't a single home.

[1319] And when they came to try and stop them, everyone had left.

[1320] Wow.

[1321] I went there.

[1322] It sounds like in the 1920s.

[1323] Oh, wow.

[1324] Lour, mysterious.

[1325] Yes.

[1326] I like the canon.

[1327] Well, Neil, you're hyper -talented.

[1328] I hope I run into you again soon and good luck in that wood shop.

[1329] And everyone watch Uncoupled on Netflix.

[1330] the fuck out of it yeah yeah thanks guys talk to you soon stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare and now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my soulmate monica padman good morning is early for you it's early but i needed to get up early because i still have to pack oh boy what time do you leave like 10 at night or something 555 oh oh Wow.

[1331] Okay.

[1332] And are you excited?

[1333] Yeah.

[1334] I got excited today.

[1335] Oh, good.

[1336] We're, well, I don't know if we're similar in that way.

[1337] Are we similar in that way?

[1338] I think so.

[1339] You don't get excited until you're ready to go or until you're there.

[1340] Yes.

[1341] Yeah.

[1342] And I think it frustrates some people to be like, oh, my God, are you so excited next week to buy?

[1343] But I'm going to argue maybe it's healthy.

[1344] Yeah.

[1345] I'm not living in the future.

[1346] I'm just going to, like, when I, you know, hours before I'll be like, oh, fuck, that's.

[1347] next that's great i'll have a little window of excitement but then i i won't get too many expectations i won't build up all that stuff yeah i think it's also indicative of how good our lives are that it's not like oh my god i'm dying for that break vacation escape you're right now okay now i'm trying to go back in time that i was broke i still think i was just i don't know My mother, she's great at it.

[1348] She can, like, it's almost, I can see from her point of view, it's a better return on investment.

[1349] She gets like three weeks of being so high in anticipation, although I will say I think sometimes vacations fall short for her, which they don't really ever.

[1350] Anticlimactic.

[1351] Yeah, yeah, they don't ever fall short for me. I'll tell you what I used to do.

[1352] Aaron and I talk about all the time.

[1353] Back when I was a drunk, and this was the, I hated this part.

[1354] of being a drunk.

[1355] You'd be drunk one night and everyone would come up with a plan like, we got to go camping on the fourth this year at Elk Lake.

[1356] And so everyone would be like excited for Elk Lake and we're going to fucking party.

[1357] And it's all about, you know, bring this many cases and this much thing and who can get these drugs and blah, blah, blah.

[1358] And then the second you were at Elk Lake, inevitably, first night, be like, we got to go to Bike Week in Daytona and fuck yeah.

[1359] Yeah, like, we were never at the party we had planned.

[1360] We were only planning the next party.

[1361] Oh, wow.

[1362] Yeah, and it even occurred to me while it was happening towards the end before I got sober.

[1363] I'm like, we're never at the thing.

[1364] We're just always like, we're hammered and we're thinking of something better all the time.

[1365] Yeah, that's interesting.

[1366] Do you think that's related to the drinking?

[1367] Yeah, I think it's, yeah, like metaphorical.

[1368] And literal, and I think I learned that in the dopamine book.

[1369] It's like, first two cocktails are euphoric.

[1370] You get dopamine.

[1371] The next are inebriation.

[1372] There's not really a ton of great chemicals associated with that.

[1373] So that's when I think you click into obsessing about how you'll get more dopamine.

[1374] You don't know any of this.

[1375] You're not smart enough to realize that's what's happening.

[1376] But I think it's like you get to Elk Lake, you set up your camp, you start smelling some burgers cooking.

[1377] That's incredible.

[1378] You get that first buzz going.

[1379] and then soon as you're drunk.

[1380] Yeah.

[1381] What's the next thing that feels good?

[1382] Tomorrow we're going here.

[1383] And then we got to, we should see if when so -and -so comes up, they could bring X, Y, or Z, you know, to amp this thing up.

[1384] Yeah.

[1385] I used to get excited earlier.

[1386] But now it's like our lives are busy.

[1387] So I kind of can't think about it yet.

[1388] It's more of just like I have to compartmentalize.

[1389] Like, this is happening now.

[1390] Then on Friday, I can pack.

[1391] And then when I'm packing, then I can get excited.

[1392] Another great luxury that we have in a privilege, which is our jobs are while you're doing them, they're pretty interesting.

[1393] So you're not just like bored out of your mind, fantasizing about being elsewhere.

[1394] That's what I mean.

[1395] That's what I was saying.

[1396] Well, I can't speak for you.

[1397] Maybe you're fantasizing the whole time and get the fuck out of this attic.

[1398] Yeah.

[1399] No, that's my whole point.

[1400] Our lives are very good day to day.

[1401] Not just like our lives are good because we have money.

[1402] I mean our lives are enriching.

[1403] We have happy, fulfilled day to days.

[1404] So it's not -substinently.

[1405] Substant -substant.

[1406] Substant.

[1407] Substance.

[1408] Subnative.

[1409] That word always gets me. Subdative.

[1410] Substantive.

[1411] That's not right.

[1412] Okay.

[1413] It's so early.

[1414] It's too early.

[1415] It's too early.

[1416] And you're still in a nose dive from all the hormones.

[1417] So, yeah, I am.

[1418] Have you felt your clarity returning at all, your sharpness?

[1419] Yeah, no, no. Submitative.

[1420] I think that's gone for good.

[1421] Let me look it up.

[1422] Oh, I hadn't mastered about a year ago.

[1423] It was one of these words I really wanted to start using a lot because I like what it says.

[1424] It's of substance.

[1425] Subnotative.

[1426] Substantial.

[1427] Well, I know, but if you want to.

[1428] I know.

[1429] the word substantial.

[1430] You can say of substance, like subnative, subnative.

[1431] Okay, let me look again.

[1432] Like that's subnative.

[1433] Oh, substantive.

[1434] Substantive.

[1435] Whoa, that doesn't say it again.

[1436] Or is it substantive?

[1437] No, that will first, the previous word you were saying.

[1438] Substantive.

[1439] That's hard, right?

[1440] Hold on.

[1441] Let me look up how to pronounce.

[1442] We love this.

[1443] We love this lady.

[1444] I think it's one of those words where they collapse a few of the consonants into a new sound almost.

[1445] I think I'm kind of right.

[1446] Substantive.

[1447] No, I wasn't right.

[1448] I said substantive.

[1449] We are looking at how to pronounce this word in English designating something or someone having a firm basis in reality and so important, meaningful, or considerable.

[1450] How do you go about pronouncing it?

[1451] Substantive.

[1452] Substantive.

[1453] First of all.

[1454] You couldn't have picked a worse person to tell us how to pronounce.

[1455] I love that guy.

[1456] Well, I like him greatly.

[1457] But the point is, is it sounds like he would be telling us how to say it in a different country.

[1458] They're robots.

[1459] They speak in robot.

[1460] That was a robot?

[1461] Yeah.

[1462] That was a Desse man in England.

[1463] No, you think that was an Indian accent?

[1464] That was not.

[1465] It was an English speaker of Desay origin, for sure.

[1466] No, that was a At least And listen to the topic he's Listen to the topic he's covering as well He's like There's even fucking Hindi music playing That's not it Looking at how to pronounce this word You are looking at In English designating something Or someone having a firm basis In reality And so important meaningful or considerable How do you go about pronouncing it.

[1467] How do you go about pronouncing it?

[1468] I'm looking now, I'm not doing an Indian accent.

[1469] I'm doing him.

[1470] I'm doing him.

[1471] You're doing a bad job.

[1472] No, I'm not.

[1473] I'm now doing him.

[1474] So you decide what it sounds like.

[1475] How do you go about it?

[1476] That's, stop.

[1477] That is not what he sounds like.

[1478] Moni, that's what the robot just said.

[1479] He said, how do you go about this?

[1480] In English, whose pronunciations aren't exactly always obvious.

[1481] I'll see you there to learn more.

[1482] Hold on.

[1483] Oh, I thought we were going to hear the, how do you go about it?

[1484] Oh, my God.

[1485] This is turning into a bad birthday.

[1486] This is turning into a bad birthday.

[1487] I'm going to send it to my dad and see what he thinks.

[1488] Do it.

[1489] I am not threatened by that challenge one bit.

[1490] Send that to his choke right now and ask if he thinks.

[1491] What they're trying to appeal to is Indian listeners.

[1492] What they're trying to appeal to, or is this an Indian accent?

[1493] Yeah, yep.

[1494] Send it to your mom and your dad, and you're going to get a clear answer.

[1495] Can I tell them Dax think so, and I don't?

[1496] No, absolutely not.

[1497] You cannot leave the witness.

[1498] I won't.

[1499] I know.

[1500] You have integrity.

[1501] Lead the witness.

[1502] I was trying to think of that phrase yesterday.

[1503] Oh, do you pronounce it?

[1504] Monica.

[1505] This isn't an excuse for you.

[1506] to practice your Indian ex.

[1507] It is not because if I wanted to do the Indian, it would be much stronger than that.

[1508] I'm literally doing what we just heard.

[1509] How do you pronounce it?

[1510] That lilt that happens.

[1511] No, he says like, let me tell you which part is, hold on.

[1512] Also, that's not Indian music.

[1513] What kind of music was that?

[1514] Why is there music?

[1515] This is like a meditation app.

[1516] There's a tiny picture of this man. And he's not Indian.

[1517] The fuck he's not.

[1518] He's not.

[1519] He's just, trying to look English.

[1520] You think he's Indian?

[1521] I don't know.

[1522] I have no opinion.

[1523] I can't really see that image all that well.

[1524] Oh, my God.

[1525] His name is Julian McKell.

[1526] That is not Indian.

[1527] We'll see.

[1528] We'll see what a show can Nimmy have to say about it.

[1529] Anywho, hard word to say.

[1530] Substative.

[1531] Substative.

[1532] Substative.

[1533] Substantive.

[1534] Substantive.

[1535] Substantive.

[1536] Substantive.

[1537] Substantive.

[1538] Substantive.

[1539] Substantive.

[1540] Substantive.

[1541] Substantive.

[1542] Substantive.

[1543] Yeah.

[1544] Fuck.

[1545] Okay.

[1546] Wow.

[1547] What a terrible detour.

[1548] That was 12 minutes.

[1549] I know.

[1550] You got to go to the airport now.

[1551] Also, sorry, arm sherrys.

[1552] Okay.

[1553] My mom said not an Indian accent.

[1554] Oh.

[1555] Nimi was first in.

[1556] What time are you leaving for the airport?

[1557] Next, the most important order of business.

[1558] I feel, you know, I feel connected to my culture.

[1559] Like, I, I just knew it.

[1560] Well, hold on.

[1561] Well, let's see what his joke says.

[1562] This could be a split decision.

[1563] In boxing, this would be a drop.

[1564] Okay, we'll see if he responds.

[1565] If he doesn't respond, that means he agrees with my mom.

[1566] Oh, no, it means he didn't bother to look at it.

[1567] Why would he?

[1568] I'm sure he's not going to.

[1569] He's like, I'm going to get to that when I have zero to do.

[1570] Like, literally, so much not to do on board and like, oh, what was I?

[1571] I'll do any chore now.

[1572] He earths now.

[1573] So he takes time out for stuff, silly stuff.

[1574] He does.

[1575] He's doing substantive things to make himself feel better.

[1576] He really is.

[1577] Good job.

[1578] Good job.

[1579] Ding, ding, ding.

[1580] Okay, quick update from the road.

[1581] Yeah.

[1582] We were in a place called Orange Beach, Alabama, or in between Orange Beach and Gulf Shores.

[1583] I think Gulf Shores is what it's called.

[1584] And there's a little state park in between the two.

[1585] And we were right by the edge of it.

[1586] We got the motorcycles off the motor home.

[1587] I want you to remember that one's a dirt bike and not street legal made for a kid.

[1588] Okay.

[1589] One's Lincoln's dirt bike, a little 110.

[1590] So we're like, God, we have no other way to get places.

[1591] We're not going to, like, put all the popouts in and unplug everything to go to the grocery store, blah, blah, blah.

[1592] Like, well, let's see if we can kind of backroads this.

[1593] So we found a nature trail that happened to be running all over the state.

[1594] and right behind the RV spot.

[1595] And so we hopped on this thing, and it was elevated wooden pathways going over marshland, Alligator Central.

[1596] Scary.

[1597] Scary.

[1598] I'm scary.

[1599] We were wondering if it would be, you'd think PETA and stuff would probably object.

[1600] If we had a fantasy that there would be a huge alligator across the pathway and that we would have to hit it at full speed and jump it, which wouldn't, we don't think would hurt the alligator.

[1601] they're huge they're resilient yeah they were here before the dinosaurs little tiny motorcycle jumping I'm not going to hurt because then we were thought oh god if we got this video we would have to post it how could we not jumping an alligator like evil can evil and little kids motorcycles and then we thought the backlash would be terrible anyways that's not the point of the story we never did see an alligator then we got ourselves across this huge bridge over the road this is all pedestrian ways and we got down to the beach and it was raining like cats and dogs so nobody was there we're the only people at this beautiful beach and we got down to our panties oh and we went in the water and monica lily padman it was and i'm i'm not a gross exaggerator like i know what 90 feels like i sometimes heat the pool i'm embarrassed to say to 90 i know what it feels like this water was 90 degrees.

[1602] Really?

[1603] And it was rainy out in like black ominous, dark, dramatic sky.

[1604] And we splashed and dove and rode waves and twirled and we were playing in that water for like an hour.

[1605] Oh, you weren't worried about getting struck by lightning?

[1606] It was present, but pretty far, very far away.

[1607] But yeah.

[1608] To the degree where I was funny you'd say that because I thought of another title for a book as I do.

[1609] It's my hobby to think of titles for books.

[1610] Swimming and Lightning.

[1611] Oh, wow.

[1612] Yeah.

[1613] It's going to be the second edition of the first book, Doing Coke and High Winds.

[1614] Oh, wow.

[1615] I like that.

[1616] Remember my book, Coffee Makes Me Sleepy?

[1617] By Baby Padman.

[1618] Yeah.

[1619] And I did have coffee yesterday and it made me sleepy.

[1620] So I feel really good about that being my autobiography.

[1621] Will you please spell it S -W -E -E -P -Y?

[1622] Yeah, sweepie.

[1623] Yeah.

[1624] Coffee makes me sweepie.

[1625] Okay, so, okay, here we go.

[1626] So we swim for an hour, great.

[1627] Then we get back on the bikes.

[1628] Now it is really a torrential downpour.

[1629] And we make our way into town.

[1630] We go into a grocery store.

[1631] We buy some towels.

[1632] They were outrageously expensive, especially for a grocery store, 2499, like a beach towel.

[1633] Too bad they weren't brook linen.

[1634] Well, that would have been justified.

[1635] These were 2499 and they were grocery store beach towels.

[1636] Anywho, got pulled over.

[1637] Because you were going too fast.

[1638] Well, because we were riding on the pedestrian trail.

[1639] Again, I felt zero ethical dilemma about it because it was pouring rain.

[1640] Nobody was out walking on these hiking trails.

[1641] But lights, camera action.

[1642] get pulled over and had a great time with this gentleman, really good chat, took some pictures.

[1643] I took one with him, so I can send you.

[1644] Yeah, send.

[1645] I understand.

[1646] Why would you want to see that?

[1647] No, I don't really sell it.

[1648] No, sorry.

[1649] You know what I think when I hear that, obviously.

[1650] Well, that it's entitled.

[1651] No, like, it's not any, no bad on you, but I'm like, there's so mean to so many.

[1652] people can't they be nice to everyone like they're nice to you and want to take pictures with everyone they pull over yeah so that's the new request that police should want to take a picture you know it's hard it's hard to know it's hard to know the guy was very friendly i'm inclined to think he would have given any two dudes a warning like hey keep it off the bike path because that's kind of where he started and then he and then it clicked he looks he looks nice but you guys are in Alabama.

[1653] I'm sorry.

[1654] I'm going to push back a little.

[1655] I'm going to push back a little that the cops that would pull you over are probably not being nice to every person.

[1656] This is a tough man. This is a really tough combo because it's like Ukiung was saying, okay, let's say whatever percentage of police are abusive with their power and racist.

[1657] It's like how many pregnant people are women?

[1658] 100%.

[1659] How many women are pregnant.

[1660] So I'm just not comfortable assuming that the sweet guy I met is one of those people.

[1661] He's one of the whatever percentage is horrific.

[1662] I mean, I get it.

[1663] I mean, there was just another video and I'm watching three assholes beat the fuck out of somebody and they're assholes.

[1664] They're horrific.

[1665] But I'm just not willing to assume that this guy was one of those people.

[1666] I agree.

[1667] I don't know anything about this guy.

[1668] He looks very friendly and sweet in this picture and he is probably lovely.

[1669] I'm not necessarily speaking to this person so much as like the difference in treatment and especially from law enforcement, which is hard because they're people of authority.

[1670] It's not like a fan.

[1671] Yeah.

[1672] It's just interesting.

[1673] And again, yeah, maybe that guy would have treated two black guys differently.

[1674] There's some percentage of probability that that is the truth.

[1675] And it's tricky.

[1676] Unfortunately, I'd have to, you know, I have to give the benefit of the doubt that until I saw that.

[1677] I can't assume that about somebody.

[1678] This is a ding, ding, ding.

[1679] I was meaning to bring this up a while ago.

[1680] But a couple weeks ago, Liz and I were driving back from probably Face Jim.

[1681] I've been a couple times.

[1682] And we were on Santa Monica in West Hollywood.

[1683] And it was six o 'clock.

[1684] And we were diverted.

[1685] Like, everyone was diverted into this checkpoint.

[1686] And at six.

[1687] And I was like, what the hell is going on?

[1688] And so, and there was like a line.

[1689] And a cop came up.

[1690] And I rolled down my window.

[1691] And he was like, hi guys you know we're just doing like a little check um have you guys been drinking and we were like no and i was like not yet and and he would just like laughed and he was like okay great just checking like it was so nice and didn't really check you know what i mean like he was just like and then we looked over and there was there was a man getting pulled out of his car and he He was Latino and he had, you know, paint on his pants.

[1692] Like he was.

[1693] He was a tradesman, a worker.

[1694] Yes, exactly.

[1695] They, like, had him, like, lift his hands and they were patting him down.

[1696] And then we had to drive away.

[1697] But I was just like, oh, no. Like, it just made me feel so, it just made me feel so sad to even to see it.

[1698] I was like, can't you guys just leave him alone?

[1699] Like, I don't know.

[1700] But was he drunk, though?

[1701] I know.

[1702] But was he at 6 o 'clock?

[1703] Like, also, why are they set up?

[1704] What's happening?

[1705] Well, I'll tell exactly what's happening.

[1706] They had some drunk driving.

[1707] They had an incident rate high enough at that hour of drunk driving issues that they were like, oh, this is the time that needs to get cracked down on.

[1708] I mean, when I met with the CHP, I said, you know, I had to have like four or five meetings with them before I did chips.

[1709] And I said, I was kind of just telling them I love that they don't have speed traps.

[1710] Like in Michigan, they run speed traps every five feet on the highway.

[1711] And they said, oh, well, we have a very specific policing directive that we've had for over a decade, which is we don't broadly patrol anything.

[1712] Where are deaths happening?

[1713] Why are they happening?

[1714] Oh, because speeds are really high.

[1715] So he's like, we have really specific speed zones that we tackle in response to elevated rates of accidents.

[1716] So I can't imagine, look, maybe it was completely random.

[1717] They decided to do a checkpoint.

[1718] It's a big effort on their part.

[1719] I have to imagine there was some elevated incident rate of DUIs, whether it's people leaving happy hour or people drink at the end of the day on their job and it's happening.

[1720] Whatever the case is.

[1721] But if it's people leaving happy hour, they should have pulled me and Liz out.

[1722] Why, of all the people?

[1723] And there was a long line of cars.

[1724] It's one person, it felt profilingy.

[1725] I mean, I don't know.

[1726] I got to add a couple things to that.

[1727] First and foremost, majority of Angelenos are Latino.

[1728] They're a majority in L .A. Just really quick, starting with the simple fact that if you were a betting person and you said someone was going to be pulled over out of a random traffic stop in L .A., who would it be, you'd have to bet Latino.

[1729] They're 41 % of the population.

[1730] So I'm just saying you've got to check all these things.

[1731] It's scary.

[1732] It looks racial profiling.

[1733] It seems like they're maybe targeting.

[1734] But you have to counter it with what would the statistical likelihood that a Latino would be the one being pulled out.

[1735] It's number one.

[1736] But I was in line.

[1737] It's like we're not looking at statistics.

[1738] We're looking at a real experience where I was there.

[1739] And they were just like, yeah, like, yay, you're fine.

[1740] I'm driving a Mercedes and I'm a cute girl and with another cute girl.

[1741] And they didn't care.

[1742] Are you saying you were.

[1743] drunk?

[1744] No, but he wasn't, I mean, I was, I was, I, we were sat there.

[1745] You're assuming the guy wasn't drunk.

[1746] Well, he didn't look drunk.

[1747] I was, we watched this all happened for like six minutes.

[1748] And it wasn't like he was like stumbling around or like so obviously drunk that they were like, come out of the car.

[1749] He was like, seemed, he seemed as normal as I would have seemed sitting there.

[1750] I would like to think that if you had rolled down your window and you smelt like beer, he would have pulled you over and done a field sobriety test and given you a brunt.

[1751] breathalyzer.

[1752] If you rolled down your window and in your interaction with him, he smelled beer, you would have gotten pulled over.

[1753] He wouldn't have been like, okay, cool, you're in a Mercedes and you're a female.

[1754] I don't think so.

[1755] Do you?

[1756] Do you think you smelled like alcohol?

[1757] I guess that's the question.

[1758] Well, no, I obviously didn't.

[1759] We weren't drinking.

[1760] Well, right.

[1761] But you don't know if he smells like alcohol.

[1762] Well, I'm going to assume that he did.

[1763] If it's a sobriety checkpoint and they have someone pulled out of the car at the sobriety checkpoint, yes, I think it's safe to assume that person smelled like alcohol.

[1764] It's much smarter to assume the guy smelled like alcohol than the cops are racist and hate Latinos and are targeting them.

[1765] Well, is it there's a whole sector of undocumented workers that people are trying to remove?

[1766] L .A. County, L .A. Sheriff, none of them.

[1767] In fact, we fought all the ISIS changes when they happen.

[1768] They don't randomly check people.

[1769] They don't report people to Homeland Security.

[1770] California is not that way at all.

[1771] They're not trying to to deport people or single out people that are here illegally.

[1772] They're not.

[1773] It happened to the guy who sold fruit on the street.

[1774] It literally happened.

[1775] During, right, and do you remember when that happened, that was when Trump was insisting that ICE go in on the streets and not deferred to the local and county authorities to involve them anymore.

[1776] Like, we have an amnesty policy in California.

[1777] We get made fun of around.

[1778] the country for it.

[1779] So they're not trying to check anyone's green card.

[1780] I think some percentage of police are naughty and terrible and racist.

[1781] Do I think that's the majority?

[1782] No. Do I think a checkpoint in Beverly Hills, West L .A.?

[1783] It was West Hollywood.

[1784] West Hollywood.

[1785] Do I think that department in that part of town, the most progressive pocket of L .A. is out trying to fuck with Latinos?

[1786] I don't.

[1787] It doesn't have to be like all the cops in West Hollywood feel this way.

[1788] and they're out to get, it could also be one person who's like, I just, I don't think, I mean, we've had a million people on that reiterate that bias is real.

[1789] You can't deny that if they see me in a car and they see you in a car, automatically something goes off this, there's a trust or a safety or something.

[1790] And then when you see someone in pants with paint on it, you might think, like, I got to look into this a little more than I looked into that girl back there.

[1791] I'm just saying in a Ukiung way, I think you have a story that the police are racially profiling and abusive to minorities.

[1792] And then so when you see a minority out of a car, which isn't ironically a minority in LA, but that's a side note, the most logical probability assumption you would make is that that person was targeted.

[1793] That's the conclusion you made.

[1794] And I'm only arguing that statistically, in checking our biases and checking our story, A, most probable that anyone pulled out of a car would be Latino to begin with.

[1795] We just have to acknowledge these things.

[1796] Two, it's an alcohol checkpoint.

[1797] In West Hollywood, though, I don't know.

[1798] You have to have to look at where we were.

[1799] I mean, maybe, maybe.

[1800] But it's like everything's pocketed a bit.

[1801] Were you on San Monica Boulevard?

[1802] Yeah, we were by the Hollywood Forever Cemetery.

[1803] Oh, you're by Hollywood forever?

[1804] Yeah, that's so Latino.

[1805] But anyways, what percentage of the time do cops at a sobriety checkpoint pull people out of the car that don't smell like booze versus pull people of the car that smell like booze?

[1806] This is another really high percentage.

[1807] If you look at a hundred times.

[1808] No, if you're white, I think that's accurate.

[1809] I don't think that's accurate for a lot of minorities.

[1810] You think they pull people out of cars at those checkpoints in West Hollywood?

[1811] who have no signs of having drank.

[1812] I'm not talking about specifically West Hollywood, but think about all the stories we've heard of all these black people who get pulled over because there's something wrong with their license plate or something, and then they pull them out.

[1813] But again, yes, to acknowledge it, that's 100 % true.

[1814] You're 100 % right.

[1815] I've seen those videos.

[1816] There's a ton of people.

[1817] It's absolutely abhorrent.

[1818] There are racist cops who only see black people as criminals and any opportunity they can.

[1819] They shake them down to search their car trying to find guns because they believe they all have guns.

[1820] That is true.

[1821] But because that's true, to say that they are running a sobriety checkpoint, it's such a low percentage.

[1822] I don't think they're running a sobriety checkpoint necessarily to, like, get people.

[1823] But I do think when they're running a sobriety checkpoint, the people that they are deciding to put, unless they're, yes, if I was like obviously drunk, they would pull me out.

[1824] you smelled like alcohol?

[1825] I don't know that he got close enough that he would be able to smell it, even if I was.

[1826] Like, he wasn't like lean.

[1827] My point is that yes, that's true.

[1828] Those things happen.

[1829] But for you to see someone as sobriety checkpoint pulled out of their car and your assumption is that's that thing happening versus that's a guy who's probably smells like booze, I think is a leap.

[1830] Okay.

[1831] Maybe.

[1832] Maybe.

[1833] I mean, maybe.

[1834] There was one person in a long line of cars that was pulled out.

[1835] It was a minority.

[1836] He was not stumbling around in a way that made me feel like, oh, well, I mean, duh.

[1837] And it was sad.

[1838] It was sad to me. It was like, that's a person who obviously works a lot and hard and just got pulled out of his car.

[1839] And that made me feel sad.

[1840] And I think it's okay that it did.

[1841] And I also understand what you're saying that, like, yeah, maybe he was.

[1842] drunk and they needed to pull him over and they should have if that's the case.

[1843] And I think it's dangerous that that's everyone's first assumption is these cops are racist.

[1844] Now, why would you, why would anyone want to join an occupation that when you're doing your job, every single person that passes you makes the conclusion you're racist?

[1845] I'd be like, well, fuck that job.

[1846] If by doing the job I'm asked to do, do a sobriety checkpoint and ticket people who are drunk, Every person that passes is going to assume the worst.

[1847] And then I'm, I don't know.

[1848] I just, it makes me nervous for how does this get turned around?

[1849] Who joins?

[1850] Because I think the way you feel about that is really, really common.

[1851] And maybe the majority.

[1852] I don't think it's outright racism.

[1853] I think that's also a difference between us.

[1854] Like when I think about everyone and the way they perceive minorities, there's just a bias.

[1855] In jobs like that, you don't necessarily have the time or the opportunity to overcome that bias.

[1856] This is apart from what happened.

[1857] He might have been drunk.

[1858] I don't know.

[1859] He might have been drunk.

[1860] And they were doing their job and that's great.

[1861] I've just also never in my life been through a security checkpoint at 6 o 'clock.

[1862] Maybe somebody was out on the loose and they were trying to find that person.

[1863] I don't know.

[1864] There was a million things that could have been happening.

[1865] Well, someone could have been killed in a drunk driving an accident a week before at 540.

[1866] Right.

[1867] But do you think that would, yeah, I guess.

[1868] Yeah, I guess.

[1869] Also, I was a roofer.

[1870] Let me just tell you, some laborers drink at the end of the day.

[1871] And most business people do.

[1872] Like, a lot of people are drinking at the end of the day.

[1873] I'm just adding to that.

[1874] Yes, yes.

[1875] I think we could just say a lot of people are drinking.

[1876] Business people.

[1877] And white -collar people do go out to nice restaurants and they get hammered at night.

[1878] And in the evening, there are checkpoints.

[1879] Those people are being already targeted because that's a high drinking hour.

[1880] Additionally, another big drinking hour is at the end of the day in the trades, people drink on the job.

[1881] I did.

[1882] Aaron did.

[1883] So if you're going to target the white -collar people who go out for cocktails with their clients in the evening, which they do, it's not insane to think we might target when the other socioeconomic demographic goes home from their day of work after drinking.

[1884] I mean, it's just, it's not crazy to think that we'll just try to figure out when people are drinking and driving the most and then crack down on it.

[1885] There's already the evening ones.

[1886] And I don't see a lot of laborers leaving restaurants in Beverly Hills or West Hollywood late at night.

[1887] But I see checkpoints.

[1888] So are they targeting those People of means who can go out and go to a nice bar and restaurant?

[1889] No, they're not targeting those people.

[1890] They're targeting drunk driving.

[1891] I meant, sorry, I meant more like the happy hours I go to are full of people who left work.

[1892] I don't think laborers go to happy hour.

[1893] Yeah.

[1894] Yeah.

[1895] So that's, that timing was like happy hour timing, six o 'clock.

[1896] Anyway.

[1897] Well, look, these are two valid perspectives.

[1898] You heard both sides of them.

[1899] Yes.

[1900] Great.

[1901] All right.

[1902] So this is for Neil, Patrick.

[1903] Harris.

[1904] He was so lovely.

[1905] N .P .H. I really like talking to him.

[1906] I've been around him socially a couple times and it was a much different experience and this was a very, very, like, dialed in, self -reflexive, really fun combo.

[1907] My kind of combo.

[1908] Yeah, I really like him.

[1909] I hope he'll tell us in a year, like what he ended up doing with his wood shop.

[1910] So we have some kind of follow up.

[1911] I know.

[1912] What if he built like a huge mausoleum?

[1913] Or like a grandfather's clock.

[1914] Like expert, expert level.

[1915] Exactly.

[1916] I mean, I have a, not a fact, but a conversation starter, but it's a little, it's a little in the vein of everything we're just talking about.

[1917] So it might be flammable.

[1918] But we were talking about the dress code for Magic Castle.

[1919] Oh, uh -huh.

[1920] I mean, I thought about a couple things.

[1921] One, it reminded me when we were in London and Kristen and I and the girls and Anna went to the Ritz for tea.

[1922] And Kristen was wearing converse, I think.

[1923] But they were like some, they weren't converse, but she was wearing some tennis shoe that was like very fancy.

[1924] Very spendy.

[1925] Yes.

[1926] It was like a very cool tennis shoe.

[1927] And they wouldn't let us in.

[1928] And I was just like, this is disgusting.

[1929] Like, this is absurd.

[1930] And also like, even if it was a regular tennis shoe, what?

[1931] Like, why do you have to be wearing uncomfortable?

[1932] heels to go into like I just hated it and it felt so classist so discriminatory I felt and then so when you brought up this Magic Castle thing I was like yeah that's I don't that's got to go that's got to go it's interesting to go to Magic Castle so like it's not like like an unhoused person can just walk in there yeah I see both sides of the argument I think all form of dress code is a socioeconomic exclusion.

[1933] That's all it is.

[1934] I think it's all why people dress up to begin with is to demonstrate that they're in some socioeconomic bracket and it's a status symbol.

[1935] I will say, though, you should also be happy because you would have driven you crazy if they let Kristen in with her sneakers just because she was Kristen.

[1936] So it's kind of good that they just had a policy that they didn't break because she was special.

[1937] No, no, but I just, I'm not, I just mean the policy itself is ridiculous.

[1938] Yeah.

[1939] Before I blast them, I'm only going to put a feather in their cap for not making an exception for her.

[1940] Like, it means to me that they actually take that policy seriously.

[1941] Yeah, they're sincere about it that they didn't break it for her.

[1942] I don't really empathize with it on the Ritz case, but at least for the Magic Castle, I understand the point of like, we're asking you to time travel, to go back.

[1943] to a time where magic was an appealing show, where sleight a hand is still the coolest thing before CGI.

[1944] And so in doing this old -timey, rare novel experience, we want you to participate by dressing in a way you wouldn't normally dress.

[1945] I think fundamentally I can support it.

[1946] Now, I hated it, and it drove me nuts.

[1947] And I would argue the pants I was wearing were plenty fine according to their code.

[1948] I hated it.

[1949] But also, it's kind of like if you throw a costume party and you say, no, you got to wear a costume to come in.

[1950] I guess I'm fine with that.

[1951] And I think the Magic Castle is saying, we're throwing a costume party every night.

[1952] And if you want to come, we'd love to have you.

[1953] But you got to be in a costume.

[1954] Yeah, but a costume could cost $2.

[1955] The reason it doesn't bother me at the Magic Castle is that's not a bunch of rich people dressed in tuxedos there.

[1956] It's very, very middle of the road people that go to the Magic Castle.

[1957] So that's like, you know, they're wearing a blazer that doesn't match the pants and the shoes are their brothers and they don't fit.

[1958] It's fine.

[1959] They're just in a costume.

[1960] If it were a bunch of rich people, it'd drive me nuts.

[1961] Yeah, I guess that's true.

[1962] I just think, like, there is a socioeconomic group that probably doesn't have that stuff, and then they wouldn't be able to go.

[1963] And then I think, like, then how do you get those people, like those kids excited about magic.

[1964] Like, they don't even have access to that.

[1965] I just don't like it.

[1966] It also seems very outdated and of a time that was worse.

[1967] Like, however bad our time is now and excluding people from lower economic brackets, it was way, way worse.

[1968] So anything that's old -timey, I think also you...

[1969] Totally.

[1970] You infuse what the real message then was.

[1971] Exactly.

[1972] Having exclusion rules was there to exclude.

[1973] Like, that's the whole purpose of it.

[1974] And now we're trying hard to move out of that.

[1975] So, yeah, anything that's like, no, but that's fun.

[1976] Sure, but also there's a greater story there.

[1977] Yeah.

[1978] Okay.

[1979] At Disney, do they say it's a 45 -minute wait when it's 30?

[1980] Yeah.

[1981] I got confirmation that, like, that the timeframes are not accurate.

[1982] They skew about 20 % higher than actual weight times.

[1983] Wow.

[1984] Wow.

[1985] Or 10 to 15 minutes longer than you actually wait.

[1986] Wow.

[1987] That's kind of interesting, right?

[1988] It is.

[1989] I love this as a business strategy because generally people over, promise, and under deliver.

[1990] And then you're furious.

[1991] Anytime you were promised five star and it was four star, you're furious.

[1992] Now, if you were promised three and it turned out to be four, you are euphoric.

[1993] But you would think it would drive people away from the rides, from the experience, from all that.

[1994] It was a big gamble.

[1995] I'm going to open a restaurant that's called average food at expensive prices.

[1996] And then when you get in there, the prices are pretty good.

[1997] And it's great food.

[1998] And the food's great.

[1999] And it's family style.

[2000] Everything is family.

[2001] Speaking of family style, we are mere hours away from being at salt like eating family style.

[2002] Oh, my God.

[2003] Are you so excited about that?

[2004] Very sighted, very sighted.

[2005] Good.

[2006] Okay.

[2007] You guys said it was a clapper, but it's a slate, right?

[2008] Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, the slate.

[2009] Yeah, you're right.

[2010] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2011] It's called the slate.

[2012] And I just wanted to say that when he said he listened to Flightless Bird, that was so exciting.

[2013] I agree.

[2014] And so flattering and awesome.

[2015] And I told David and he was thrilled.

[2016] Did we tell him Mila's obsessed with flightless bird as well?

[2017] I didn't.

[2018] Oh, I got to pass that on to him if I didn't already.

[2019] All right.

[2020] Well, listen, on behalf of myself and all armcheries, bomb voyage.

[2021] I hope you have an exciting time in Spain.

[2022] Thank you.

[2023] What was it?

[2024] The best legs one.

[2025] Oh, the best thigh for the job.

[2026] The right thigh for the job.

[2027] I hope he stuffs you full of so much yummy food.

[2028] Yes, I'm so excited.

[2029] Max the chef.

[2030] Well, thank you.

[2031] Okay, so I'll bring my stuff and we'll try to do this.

[2032] We'll do this abroad.

[2033] Okay.

[2034] Okay, bye.

[2035] Bye.

[2036] Love you.

[2037] Love you.

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