251 - One Vince Away

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] To my favorite murder, the podcast.

[2] That's Georgia Hard Star.

[3] That's Karen Kilgarra.

[4] I thought you're going to say it with you.

[5] I was like, this is going to get old real quick.

[6] I refuse.

[7] This whole thing's gotten old, everybody.

[8] What, 2020?

[9] Am I right?

[10] Am I right, ladies and gentlemen?

[11] What a year.

[12] Well, I'm sitting here with my drink of choice.

[13] for 2020, non -alcoholic beer.

[14] How is it?

[15] It's actually pretty good.

[16] People are like, which one do you like?

[17] And it doesn't matter.

[18] It just tastes like a weak pilsner.

[19] Like, I haven't found one that I'm like, this is great.

[20] You know, I find, and this is probably, we may have even talked about this, but because you just took a sip and it's in a bottle.

[21] Like, I feel like whether it's in a can or a bottle or you've poured it out into a frosty glass, there's a lot of ritual around drinking that when you substitute, what's in the glass it kind of yeah we know that there's the escape aspect that can be nice but there is the part where if you're just if you got a nice cold bottle with you that does a lot it gets the job done in a lot of I don't like these empty calories it's just like at the end of the day and I'm like fuck I'm stressed out I want to open a beer and fucking drink a beer and it's like well you that's all you want you know I want a little bit of that tingly drunkness but never stops there so this is this works well you know why because it starts a tingle and they're like let's get this thing going and then the tingle turns into a full -on tickle and then you're dancing the tickle turns into it interpreted dance in the middle of it's into i'm got to sing how is your thank thanksgiving speaking of thanks it was wonderful um it was also my dad's 80th birthday oh yeah so i drove up to be with family stayed in the pod.

[22] A lot of people being as judgmental as they can about people doing what they can do for the holidays.

[23] I would say if you're starting to get into things like that of like trying to run around and yell at people about them seeing four members of their family, maybe dial it down a bit or look inside.

[24] Check in with yourself.

[25] How are you?

[26] How am I?

[27] Trust that people are doing things after we're all, we've all been in this for nine months so that we know how to do things safely and trust that we've all also had serious threats and near misses and we're scared we're all scared assume everyone's as scared as you yeah i drove up uh you should have seen me at the gas stations on the five getting out and so quickly my hands are like to they're they're horrifying it's i it's like something out of a horror movie because of the dryness because of all that yeah so much sand sanitizer Anytime I'd go out and in anywhere, like you're washing your hands, but then you sanitize because you also touch the door and, you know, there's a whole system.

[28] Yeah.

[29] But I had to be there because Jim turned 80.

[30] Yeah.

[31] Home gym is 80.

[32] And here's the thing.

[33] My sister was a genius because she planned ahead in a way that at the time bugged me. And then what it was happening, I was like, thank the fucking God.

[34] Yeah.

[35] It's brilliant.

[36] She did one of those make a video ahead of time.

[37] Totally.

[38] She sent an email to all my dad's friends, family, people that are close in our lives.

[39] But I would say only about 60 % of the people were able to actually make and return the videos because they're all also 80 or near 80.

[40] So there were people that would just email my sister back going, I'm sorry, I can't do this.

[41] Like I literally can't figure out.

[42] And it's the funniest thing because it was you just pressed a button and started recording.

[43] There's some.

[44] I feel like we should give a shout out to whatever.

[45] the site is, because some brilliant fucking, you know, person came up.

[46] I think it's called tribute.

[47] Yes, that's it.

[48] It's such a smart business idea.

[49] Especially in COVID.

[50] Especially.

[51] It was all these people because we were, it was a little depressing and it was similar to our Thanksgiving, which is a little depressing because we have a huge family.

[52] And there's always minimum 25 people at every holiday.

[53] So it was a little, it was a little low key.

[54] And then, you know, we did, gave.

[55] my dad a couple regular gifts and then then i was like oh this is not this is a real like downer then i remembered my sister's video i was like fucking icing on the cherry on top so good it was really funny and there was like fireman in the video that he hadn't seen and or talked to in 20 years because they're all retired and they it's people he hadn't seen then he starts telling us these stories as people show up in the video this guy one time then you guys showed up in the middle Vince and I did one.

[56] We didn't know what the fuck to say.

[57] It was really short.

[58] It was the cute.

[59] Everyone's was.

[60] Everyone kind of was just like trying to say something nice and we'll see you next year.

[61] But it was the cutest because I, I texted you to do this.

[62] But when my dad saw Vince in Georgia, well, sorry, but when he saw Vince, he went, hey, there's my buddy.

[63] He was so surprised that you guys did it.

[64] He was so, it was just the cutest.

[65] It was all these people going, we love you, we miss you.

[66] We'll see you next year.

[67] type of thing so it was it was so sweet and i told you and laura i was we were so honored to be included you know it was just like nice and we love jim so it was yeah what was such a good idea i mean you're some of his best friends it was really it was very sweet yeah but then he started telling stories because of course there's all these firemen that that and then some some of the firemen sent my sister long emails about my dad because they couldn't make the video work and pictures where she's like wouldn't have been great if this was in their But she had to do it like separately.

[68] It was really funny.

[69] But he started talking about this thing they used to do in the firehouse.

[70] It was like there was a picture that came up where my dad was wearing like eight sombreros.

[71] And he goes, oh, that's hat night.

[72] So every different night of the week, they would have a special dinner where it would be hat night.

[73] One night it was nose night.

[74] And he started to tell the story.

[75] I was like, oh, no, no, this is going to be racist.

[76] This is going to be problematic.

[77] There's going to be.

[78] And it was just like they all wore different animal noses while they ate dinner.

[79] it was like it was the cutest and it was stuff where he would normally like remember those stories or tell those stories or whatever it was hilarious that's adorable I love that it was really good can I tell you the one thing that happened of note on our Thanksgiving the day before which I was like this is going to be great to tell the podcast and as it's gone by I'm like this isn't that interesting so I'm going to make it quick you know what I mean can it beat nose night well then it was nose night.

[80] Well, so Vince was going to brine the turkey and the day before and then cook it the next day.

[81] So we have the big huge bag out because it's all this brining liquid on top of the turkey.

[82] So the turkey in the bag on the counter and we're filling, I'm holding it open.

[83] He's filling it with water with all the brining shit inside.

[84] And then one of the sides of the bags slips from my hand and this tidal wave of salmonella fucking brine water splashed all like poured on door.

[85] dine into our dining room.

[86] So we spent the rest of the day like, um, what's it called clean, like steam cleaning everything.

[87] It was just this horror moment that just felt so, I know that we blame everything bad now in 2020, but it was so 2020.

[88] It was a classic 2020 Thanksgiving experience.

[89] Yes.

[90] Now, oh, I guess it's still poultry.

[91] Because I always just, I always think it's just chicken miscellaminella.

[92] I almost don't really anything else.

[93] I think it's just raw meat.

[94] But I think I wouldn't be as freaked out about like, you know, a fucking steak because I eat raw steak.

[95] It's not a big deal.

[96] But turkey is just fucking salmonella city.

[97] You do not want to eat raw.

[98] No. And then I don't want it on our fucking like on our beautiful rug and on our bar stools.

[99] It like soaked into the bar stools.

[100] I almost I almost lost it.

[101] It was great.

[102] We didn't snap at each other.

[103] Like I was like, how can I?

[104] This is his fault.

[105] I'm like, no, it's not.

[106] damn it yeah good hey that's progress yeah that's like holding yourself in the moment and being like wait now hold on yeah it was an accident it was so great it was a also from the way you just told it it was your phone well right before it happened I said maybe we should have done this in the cooler because we were then going to transfer the bag into a cooler and right after that yeah it totally was me if it was anyone's fault it was mine because it did slip out of my hand I'm just saying based on your the information And you gave me. I'm not arguing that.

[107] Also, if you're like, we should have done this in the cooler and here's what.

[108] And you just intentionally drop it.

[109] Thank God I like for some reason hoard cleaning appliances.

[110] Wow.

[111] That's good.

[112] I think everything went like, you know what the funniest thing was?

[113] My sister made these mashed potatoes and she made them earlier in the day.

[114] And then she had Nora and I try them and they were perfect.

[115] They were so good.

[116] We were both like, ooh, like we both got.

[117] big spoons just keep on eating but it was like breakfast time but we were like hmm these are perfect when she served them at dinner time they had turned a little sour oh no and we couldn't figure out like how or why and she was super bummed because obviously like mashed potatoes are the key to thanksgiving and then later i was like you know and i'm kind of glad because if you had the original version i would have eaten so much more but instead it's like it's like it's tricks Like, girls you know that you, they were like, if I put extra pepper, I won't want to eat this or that kind of shit, but it just like happened to us.

[118] I love that.

[119] I used the flakes, the like box of flakes of flakes of mashed potatoes.

[120] So it didn't taste good anyways to begin with.

[121] You do instant mashed potatoes?

[122] Yeah.

[123] When it's just in the event, I married a Midwesterner.

[124] That's what he fucking wants.

[125] That's not CYO camp.

[126] Come on.

[127] That's what we do.

[128] We're fucking, we're not lazy.

[129] We're just like, like a show.

[130] shortcut, you know?

[131] Yeah, true, true, true.

[132] That was weird that I just don't care.

[133] I would think I'd care, but I don't care.

[134] It's best.

[135] Yeah.

[136] Like when you, when you're, and then we can stop talking about Thanksgiving if you want.

[137] I don't.

[138] When we first met, Vince and I, he was telling me about how at Thanksgiving he has to have that green bean casserole, you know, the one with like the fake can, the can of fucking cream of mushroom soup and the can of fucking green beans and then the onions on top.

[139] And I, we had never had that.

[140] And I, and I, we had never had that.

[141] And I. And I. And I, I was like, well, maybe we could try it.

[142] And we can make cream of mushroom soup and we can get fresh green.

[143] And I started like trying to make it nicer.

[144] And he was like, no. No. He like put his foot down.

[145] He's like, that's not what we fucking do.

[146] I want the trash version of it.

[147] Yes.

[148] Because it has all the, that's like the, my mother's many recipes that involved several cans of cream of something soup.

[149] Campbell's cream of something soup.

[150] You need the sodium.

[151] You need the like preservatives.

[152] All the different things.

[153] are interacting in a very specific way to get you that flavor.

[154] It just is the exact flavor you had when you were eight or whatever.

[155] Yes.

[156] I don't know why.

[157] We never used cream of anything soup.

[158] And whenever we didn't use something normal as a kid, I always just assumed that the company was anti -Semitic.

[159] I just assume my mom knew that something I didn't like cream of soup companies were anti -Semitic.

[160] So I probably like have spread rumors about certain companies being anti -Semitic just because we never use them.

[161] And it's purely like Janet didn't like it.

[162] Exactly.

[163] My mom was really hardcore.

[164] She would not use margarine and she would not use anything but best foods real mayonnaise.

[165] Any miracle whip was, I remember being at Friends houses when the mom would make us like a turkey sandwich and it was Miracle Whip instead of manas on the sand.

[166] Oh, it tastes so weird.

[167] It's like, it's, it's sweeter and like there's something else going on entirely as opposed to just this is your like sandwich meat moisturizer that you're using to get the bread down yeah yeah yeah that you've had forever it brings a whole like no it's almost going into the ambrosia area oh yeah yeah yeah yeah what it's too desserty on like a turkey or salami sandwich it's I'm telling you the the composition of my refrigerator when I moved in with a guy from the Midwest has changed so drastically there's shit in there that I would have never like what's the thing of um not miracle whip but it's the whip cream one cool whip and then we have like i would never i would never i my mom was always big on like real maple syrup you have to use real maple syrup and he he wants the fucking log cabin or whatever so we have both of them and it's just it's like we're a sitcom you know it's you know what it is i will never not think it's a great conversation when there's a group of people at a dinner table God, I miss people When there's a group of people at a dinner table Or I'd get a restaurant or whatever And people start talking about Like what was your blank from blank?

[168] So it's like people talking about Like arguing about whether Cheetos are better than cheese puffs Which I actually thought for so long I'm sure I've said this on the podcast before I used to think cheese puffs were made for movie brand I always thought those were fake Really?

[169] I was like well Yeah Prop cheese cheese Cheetos.

[170] They can't use the Cheetos.

[171] They're calling them cheese puffs.

[172] They're probably not.

[173] Oh, I see what you're saying.

[174] Because they look so real, too.

[175] They're like, not real, fake.

[176] They look like, they just look like tiny, tiny.

[177] They look like packing material, but orange.

[178] Yeah.

[179] I love that.

[180] What was the thing your family ate the most, you know, every night?

[181] What was your like normal meals?

[182] Did you have pizza fried?

[183] Yes.

[184] Minute rice?

[185] Yes.

[186] Minute rice.

[187] a frozen corn like as a as a dessert as a vegetable you're poor poor Karen my mom like my mom is hardcore about it has to be real like dairy products basically but then she was like she would absolutely thaw out a thing of like Brussels sprouts and boil them and then just put them straight on your plate where you're like sorry how as an eight year old am I supposed to get this down it's like a sitcom joke on your plate yes yeah She, it, but minute rice got us through.

[188] It was always like a minute rice, some dry chicken breasts.

[189] Yeah.

[190] We definitely did like the rice erroney thing and yeah.

[191] Yeah.

[192] But we never, my mom never did stuff like hamburger helper, which I was always like.

[193] Oh, I wanted it.

[194] That seemed like standard.

[195] Yeah, I did too.

[196] Once she got a job, we stopped.

[197] But we'd go to what my, my like soft spot is for Mimi's Cafe.

[198] You know that place?

[199] Yeah.

[200] And that's actually when I was on doughboys, I did Mimi's Cafe.

[201] because I was like, that's my, like, childhood love.

[202] It's like, it's a faux French cafe, like, Denny's type of thing for anyone listening.

[203] It's just like, but it's not French at all.

[204] No. But I actually never heard of it until that one that was over by your old apartment.

[205] Yeah.

[206] I thought it was new, but it's been around.

[207] Oh, yeah.

[208] It was in Irvine in the 80s or 90s, I think.

[209] I loved it.

[210] I loved it.

[211] It was like when our family was happy, that's when we were there.

[212] Yeah.

[213] What else?

[214] What are you got?

[215] What are you watching?

[216] What are you doing?

[217] Oh, shoot.

[218] Okay.

[219] So did you watch the undoing?

[220] The Nicole Kidman, Hugh Grant.

[221] Oh, I started it and I hated it.

[222] But it gets, I didn't get to the twisty part.

[223] To the big twisty turny.

[224] Yeah.

[225] I didn't mind.

[226] I liked it.

[227] I, Hugh Grant, I can watch him read the newspaper.

[228] He is a brilliant actor.

[229] They were great.

[230] They were great.

[231] Her, I could stare at her pores all day long because they're not there.

[232] Yeah.

[233] she is how does she look younger than when she was in dead calm when she was 19 years old nothing makes sense about Nicole Kidman it's a it's a it's a it's a Hollywood joy to watch a woman that gorgeous thrive um and just continue to be in a million things right it's great but it ended um and it's that thing is like it'll if i say one thing it'll be spoiler central so i know i know the spoiler so i think i'll go back because i didn't find out till after we were I'm like, this is fucking boring.

[234] This is just fucking rich people.

[235] I think there is a real rich people aspirational.

[236] It's almost like the Kardashians for adults is what it feels like we're like, you see Donald Sutherland playing the piano in that apartment in New York with 80 foot ceilings and parquet floors and a view of the park and you're just like, that's what it's all about.

[237] You know, I was in the middle of listening to this book.

[238] It's called Uneasy Street by Rachel Sherman.

[239] And it's just interviews with like aspirationally wealthy people and how they live their lives and what.

[240] They're all like pretty anonymous.

[241] So they openly talk and they're all in New York and they're all couples.

[242] And so one couple usually has an inheritance in the other works and how that dynamic works.

[243] You know, it's gay and straight couples.

[244] It's couples with kids, everything.

[245] But it's like the, it's a peek into how like generationally wealthy fucking people live.

[246] And I was in the middle of it.

[247] So I, and I was just like, holy shit.

[248] So that might have deterred me a little.

[249] Sorry, that's a book.

[250] It was an audio book.

[251] It was an audio book.

[252] It's an easy street.

[253] It's really interesting.

[254] After the undoing ended, I was on streaming, HBO streaming.

[255] I think we're going to talk about the same show.

[256] Is it murder on Middle Beach?

[257] Oh, my God.

[258] Okay.

[259] I, when it started, I was like, the dad did it.

[260] The dad did it.

[261] The dad did it.

[262] The dad did it in the first episode.

[263] No. Okay, but how many episodes are you in?

[264] So there's total of four episodes.

[265] There's only three that are up right now.

[266] So we are like obsessed.

[267] We watched it the minute it came out.

[268] So we watched all three.

[269] How many have you watched?

[270] How are you still on the dad when there's literally anyone else to choose from?

[271] That's why I said like in the very beginning.

[272] I was like, this is boring.

[273] It's the dad.

[274] And then it was like, hey, switcheroo.

[275] What's up?

[276] Multi -level marketing.

[277] What's up fucking family members?

[278] What's up?

[279] What's up with the hottest fucking guy I've ever seen in my life, the documentary filmmaker, who's mother.

[280] Efron?

[281] Yeah.

[282] He is total Zach Efron.

[283] He is.

[284] But with a heartbreak, his life has been horrifying.

[285] I feel so awful for that guy.

[286] Every interview, I mean, here's a thing.

[287] It's funny to match that up and it's an unfair comparison entirely, but to match that up against a show like The Undoing, where you can watch it trying to surprise you.

[288] Yeah.

[289] Right?

[290] Yeah.

[291] And then this thing comes on and I'm just like, wait.

[292] That's someone's living.

[293] life and like it's and he's been making it for 10 years so he's uncovering these things in this I mean it is if you haven't seen murder on Middle Beach yeah highly recommend and sorry for the spoilers but you'll see well I don't think that the dad it's the first episode and I think that that's what everyone's assuming is that it's the dad in the beginning and then it just goes off the fucking rails I feel like it is I just was like it makes me feel like I'm from the most normal family of all time definitely made me feel better about my insane family like yeah but but also it made me go I think I don't know anyone from Connecticut I think that's like more importantly more importantly what are those people doing over there yeah intense living in Connecticut yeah and it's all like secret of it's all like no one can know how many secrets we have there's it's it's about the secrets they are it's like their miracle whip with secrets in Connecticut.

[294] They got a lot of miracle whip in their closets.

[295] Yeah, they do.

[296] Along with those skeletons, along with a 24 foot skeleton.

[297] They have miracle whip.

[298] No, it's 24 feet.

[299] How tall is it?

[300] 12.

[301] Fuck, that's not as cool.

[302] I'm the one that lied and said it was 20.

[303] I bought it.

[304] Because I love it.

[305] I also don't really understand like inches and feet.

[306] No. My dad yelled at me once because I said something was, it was something like this where I was like, that's 12 feet tall.

[307] And he goes, what do you talk?

[308] And it was, it was like seven feet tall or something, but he is, a ceiling's only eight feet tall.

[309] And I was like, why are you acting like that's something that everyone is taught in school or whatever?

[310] Sorry, I've never, I've never put up drywall.

[311] I didn't know that.

[312] I didn't either.

[313] Well, now I have a six, over six foot husband to be like, if he laid down, how many evidences would this be?

[314] Yeah, for social distancing.

[315] That's what think every time is you're certainly not one Vince away from me right now.

[316] That's right.

[317] And you should be.

[318] Absolutely.

[319] Should be.

[320] Yeah.

[321] That's so funny.

[322] Murder on Middle Beach.

[323] So fucking good.

[324] I'm so glad you watched it too.

[325] So the last episode is this Sunday.

[326] But I assume, I feel like we would have known if he solved it.

[327] You know what I mean?

[328] I don't know.

[329] Because the whole thing, like, had you ever heard of table parties before?

[330] No. No. I've heard of in like the whole multi -level marketing.

[331] What is it called?

[332] Pyramid scheme.

[333] Kind of like a similar thing I've heard of where it's just money.

[334] You're not even selling anything.

[335] It's just like people on top and people have to buy in to get to the top.

[336] I want to know what was really going on.

[337] First of all, like this, the documentary could have been about that alone.

[338] Yeah.

[339] And the dad.

[340] There's plenty.

[341] It gives and gives.

[342] I'm, I can't believe there's only one more episode.

[343] I was hoping there was at least three more.

[344] Yeah.

[345] Well, I feel like just like sad Zach Ephron has a future in movies.

[346] So hell yeah.

[347] In documentaries.

[348] So we'll see more of that.

[349] This is a huge spoiler, but I'll just say this to you.

[350] The part where he goes back to the house and the woman who lives there is a grief counts.

[351] I lost her mom too.

[352] Oh.

[353] And then the thought of that when he's standing in his old bedroom, like the thought of sitting in my old bedroom makes me teary, but also your mom.

[354] was killed there not yeah not in his bedrooms no spoiler it's just like heart wrenching it's horrible and like he said like like my my whole life changed immediately like it just all changed like on a dime which is it is that thing and if you think of me recording are this past minisode in my bedroom where it's just literally piles of like old books your childhood bedroom yeah my parents changed my bedroom, like my foot wasn't out the door.

[355] And my mom was just like, get rid of all of this.

[356] She fucking aged.

[357] She teased that shit the minute you walked out of the door.

[358] She's like, we need an office and we need a place to do sit -ups with this weird machine that got put in here in 1987 has never been touched again.

[359] It never worked and it hasn't been touched.

[360] So don't worry about it.

[361] But it's still fucking here if you want to try it.

[362] But it's repping.

[363] It's reping the abs we've all dreamed of.

[364] That's our aspirational abs machine.

[365] I love.

[366] in my room for some reason.

[367] I mean, are there real abs?

[368] They're only aspirational.

[369] Yeah.

[370] Let's see.

[371] Murder on Middle Beach, Mandalorian.

[372] I'm kind of being forced to watch that.

[373] Oh.

[374] Relationship watching it.

[375] Sure.

[376] Good.

[377] It's good practice.

[378] You give, you receive.

[379] Yes.

[380] You know how I said last week that I was really obsessed with dollhouses, like mid -century modern dollhouses?

[381] Okay.

[382] My new thing that I'm obsessed with scrolling are bees.

[383] Because I was, there was this, do you know, there's this thing called Cottage Corps.

[384] Have you heard of it?

[385] No. It's this like aesthetic lifestyle, mostly women and who have this, it's almost like a little house on the prairie style aesthetic, like back to the prairie making things with your hands.

[386] Everything is Tweed and darling.

[387] And I think, you know, like baking things.

[388] So like the quarantine is really fucking boosting it.

[389] So I was like, This sounds very Mormon.

[390] It does, but it's not.

[391] Yeah.

[392] But it's very millennial and, like, Gen Z -ish.

[393] So I was like, what if I start raising bees in my backyard?

[394] And then I looked it up for five minutes, so it's really fucking hard.

[395] So instead, I'm just following this Instagram called Mr. Dot Mrs. Bee Rescue.

[396] And it's this couple in San Diego who go to, like, people call it and they're like, hey, there's bees in my wall.

[397] And, like, they just, and they film it.

[398] And it's fucking fascinating.

[399] like they pull out these honeycombs and they're like here's this is the queen and here's how old you can tell by this and it's obsessive it's obsessive and i'm obsessed with it okay well mr mrs bee rescue i you might as well say like i want to raise baby sharks like bees what more like painful and violent kind of pastime no i'm not talking about i'm not raising wasps bees aren't they're like little bumble bees you know they sting you yeah but not me because they probably like me oh i see you're the snow white of bees good would you have a bee beard like like in the guinness book or world records i well it's like little red writing hoodish you know it's like um wait that reminds me the last movie that i saw in the movie theater my friend roptor bosky and i um we we were writers on our show together but then we just became we would just go to the movies all the time and we kind of didn't care.

[400] It was just like, let's go see a movie and see what we can start.

[401] Yeah.

[402] So one of the last movies I saw in the movie theater was this documentary about a woman and it's called Honeyland.

[403] Oh.

[404] And if you like bees, you might want to check this film out.

[405] Because it's a documentary where the documentary filmmakers went and kind of like lived there.

[406] And it's kind of fascinating in a way.

[407] She's a beekeeper?

[408] She, that's what she does.

[409] And she like talks to.

[410] her bees and it's me it's good it's good but it's also like um it's that kind of thing where we're so inured in ourselves in america and thinking like this is how everyone is or we think everything's westernized yeah it's amazing to go watch a beekeeper in north macedonia and what her jam is on the day to day she lives with her mom in this house that seems to not have electricity and her mom is really old and it's just like you got to see it it's it's it's a really beautiful movie that we at first rob and i were just kind of like okay we'll go see that you know what it was i was late and so we were supposed to see something else and then we had to go see the what's it called but then honeyland honeyland okay but then once we saw it like we were like we talk about it and we we were both like yeah we i think about that movie all the time like it's one of those guys i love that okay oh that reminds me of did you see the happiest season that just one up on Hulu, and it's created and directed by Friend of the Family, Cleo Duval, and also was written as well by Friend of the Family from Wild Horses, Mary Holland, who's the fucking, her character in that movie is like the best character I've ever seen in a movie.

[411] She's weird, and I love her in it so much.

[412] She's the greatest.

[413] Mary Holland is friend of the family and just a great individual.

[414] like a great person to run into in a green room backstage at a show she's just a lovely human being but everyone is so I feel bad that I haven't seen that movie yet because everyone on Twitter loves it they're raving about it they're they're talking they're getting into it like I got choked up in it at the end you know at the end of like it's a rom -com so of course like it pulls at all these heartstrings and shit which I didn't even know I had them anymore and it was You do.

[415] They're in there.

[416] Yeah.

[417] People are, what I love is people are talking about it and they're talking about like, apparently, if it is on Hulu, it had, its premier numbers were the biggest they've ever done.

[418] Amazing.

[419] Yeah.

[420] It makes me so happy for all those people.

[421] It's such a talented, astounding group of people in the first place.

[422] And then basically, yeah, there should be a lesbian rom -com.

[423] There should be, there should be all those things.

[424] yeah congratulations to to mary holland to clea duval to dan levy oh dan levy's in oh jesus i have to see this thing he's great i read a book i'm just finishing it now that was so good so um i think his name is pronounced mckell jolette oh i just talked to you about it like three episodes ago about hollywood park yes you told me about it yeah on the podcast oh that's horrifying fine.

[425] I don't remember that.

[426] Oh, no, yes, I do because I said, oh, I have it now, now I can read it.

[427] Okay.

[428] Oh, well, I read it.

[429] I read it.

[430] I read a big, long, actual hardback book.

[431] Yeah.

[432] And it is, he wasn't sitting on as a child.

[433] It's like it is.

[434] It's so bananas.

[435] It's so unbelievable.

[436] It's so heartfelt.

[437] I highly recommend listening to it because his, you know, he narrates the audio book and there's music.

[438] His music is in it.

[439] They're like interspiced.

[440] interspersed.

[441] I read the hard back.

[442] Maybe that's why I didn't think of it.

[443] That's horrifying.

[444] Well, anyway.

[445] I'm glad I got the credit.

[446] I'm glad I got the credit.

[447] I also vote for that.

[448] It's a double Zs from Karen and Georgia.

[449] And here is a podcast I listen to on my drive back or my drive up that is trigger, trigger, and be careful.

[450] It's such a sensitive topic, but oh my God.

[451] It's an old podcast called, Hunting Warhead.

[452] Those Canadian journalists...

[453] Hunting what?

[454] Hunting warhead.

[455] And it's about online child...

[456] It's about pedophile websites and child sex abuse materials, which is...

[457] I learned in this, they don't call it child pornography because that makes it seem like that's somehow okay.

[458] It's child sex abuse.

[459] it's it's such an unbelievable podcast like every episode I was like oh my god and it was really compelling really difficult like really difficult um I don't know if I'm in a good headspace to listen to that right now I feel like no one is and maybe I shouldn't make this recommendation no no oh yeah it's important stuff there are people working really hard to fight it and um it brought up some very difficult questions that I think are it made it very fast I just think I feel like the Canadian journalists kick ass they really I don't know you can't go wrong oh I'll just say this real quick okay my notebook in front of me from my therapy appointment this morning here's what my notebook says hope is smart oh that's all okay hope is smart oh yeah I love that yeah that's my big that's my big problem vulnerability ability hope these things that they all kind of connect and I just I find them repulsive I want no part it's in because things were shitty for so long yeah that it's just like you to hope for better to want something else it was just like I don't have time for that and it's not gonna have it's for other fucking people it's for normal people who can like live normal lives they get to have yeah yeah today's that day where Spotify sent a bunch of people the um this is the podcast you've listened to the most this year and how many hours um and so a bunch of people were posting it to us on Twitter so I just want to say these are just the people who posted this today they're hours and they're this is your number one podcast that's so cute and I love that Aaron Ken's Sammy M Beck's Megan H which I think her name is Heather but it just says age Karina, Kells, Alex, Emily Lynn, Maddie, someone named antagonist, Ashley, and Natalie all sent us pictures of their Spotify thing.

[460] And one person, I can't, I didn't write down which one, is listen to 17 hours of our show in a row.

[461] Oh, my God.

[462] Honey, are you okay?

[463] Honey, were you on the longest road trip of all time?

[464] Oh, yeah, maybe it's that.

[465] It was making me laugh.

[466] but thanks to you guys because people were being so sweet and saying I've spent the last year with you and saying super lovely messages because they got their notification so they were letting us know.

[467] That's so cool.

[468] I didn't know that was a thing.

[469] I love it.

[470] Oh, that's great.

[471] Right.

[472] Exactly right news.

[473] Really quick.

[474] Okay.

[475] Here's some news about us.

[476] This Friday, December 4th at 5 o 'clock Pacific standard time, 8 o 'clock Eastern standard time.

[477] Karen and I are doing a live streaming of our mini -firm.

[478] So the minisodes that's going up on Monday, you'll be able to watch it as a live stream on Friday if you're in the fan cult.

[479] So it's only in the fan cult.

[480] Make sure that your fan cult membership is up to date.

[481] Right.

[482] Because, so you can get in there and then be there for the first time that we do something live that isn't an actual live show.

[483] Oh, my God.

[484] There might be like a Q &A.

[485] You might be able to ask a couple questions.

[486] We don't know what we're going to fucking do.

[487] Elvis, I'm sure we'll stop by because I'm going to force Vince to bring him into the room.

[488] I mean, there's going to be so many surprises.

[489] Yeah, I can't wait to put on makeup.

[490] I'm just like looking around the room.

[491] There's a light switch.

[492] Finally see Karen's light switch.

[493] I'll read what the, what all those books are on that picture of back there.

[494] It's going to be wild.

[495] God.

[496] And then we have a podcast network too.

[497] Did you guys know that?

[498] We do.

[499] And we have a fucking shit ton of rad podcasts on it.

[500] It's like, it feels like this growing family.

[501] And I'm so.

[502] excited.

[503] And so this podcast will kill you return for their fourth season on Tuesday and they are doing typhoid fever, which is so awesome.

[504] This podcast will kill you is one of our foundational podcast.

[505] We started this network with them.

[506] We are talking about all the new kids all the time, but this podcast will kill you has been there from the beginning and they have been killing it from the beginning.

[507] Aaron and Aaron.

[508] My God.

[509] They're so good.

[510] They have such a, they have a huge fan base.

[511] And we really admire and appreciate them and we're so glad that they're on this this podcast network because the idea that they weekly gets a bring and explain to you different diseases communicable diseases cool they're visionaries they are it's so cool um oh and then murder squad is doing this week matrice richardson's death which i covered a while ago and it's like just one of those cases that can't you can't get out of your mind i can't wait to hear what paul has to say about this case because it's so confounding and so sad and clearly there's some big fucking issues with the police department surrounding it.

[512] So take a listen to that.

[513] And the connections of the people involved in the police department.

[514] That's very upsetting.

[515] And finally, some very exciting news.

[516] We've been talking about it.

[517] Hopefully you've listened to the trailer.

[518] But our Law & Order SVU podcast hosted by Kerr Klank and Lisa Trigger, it's called That's messed up and it is premiering on Tuesday the 8th.

[519] They're hilarious and it's fucking magical and it's so it's such a cool concept.

[520] They're interviewing people who have been on the show.

[521] Lisa has auditioned for SVU before.

[522] They have these weird connections.

[523] It's just and they're both such a lovely, funny women.

[524] Yes, they're hilarious.

[525] They're both very talented comedians in their own right and have been doing stand up for a long time.

[526] And so that, them coming together and recapping their favorite show and many, many, many people's favorite show.

[527] Law and Order SVU is just going to be great.

[528] We're so excited.

[529] So definitely rate review, subscribe.

[530] They're coming out Tuesday, December 8th.

[531] That's messed up an SVU podcast.

[532] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[533] Absolutely.

[534] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[535] Exactly.

[536] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[537] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[538] That's right.

[539] Shopify is the sound of selling everywhere, online, in -store, on social media, and beyond.

[540] Give your point -of -sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[541] From accepting payments to managing inventory, they have everything you need to sell in -person.

[542] So give your point -of -sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[543] Their sleek, reliable POS hardware takes every month.

[544] major payment method and looks fabulous at the same time.

[545] With Shopify, we have a powerful partner for managing our sales, and if you're a business owner, you can too.

[546] Connect with customers in line and online.

[547] Do retail right with Shopify.

[548] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify .com slash murder.

[549] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[550] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[551] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[552] Goodbye.

[553] So, speaking of Canadian journalism, it's funny you brought that up.

[554] So I'm doing this story from Canada that I had heard about vaguely but didn't know a lot about.

[555] And now I'm amazed by.

[556] I'm doing Starlight Tours, aka Saskatoon Freezing, the Saskatoon Freezing Deaths.

[557] Okay.

[558] I've never heard of them.

[559] Oh, okay.

[560] So I got information from the website, The Conversation, an article by Michelle Stewart, the Saskatoon Star Phoenix, a bunch of articles there, one by Jason Warwick and CBC articles, one by Dan Zagreski, the Washington Post article by Dene L. Brown.

[561] McLean's article by Megan Campbell.

[562] Criminal, of course, does an excellent episode where they interview someone who's, you know, really involved in the case.

[563] Of course, it's good.

[564] And then there's a book that talks about this called Dying for Improvement by Shireen.

[565] So this is the Starlight Tours.

[566] All right.

[567] Let's talk about Saskatchewan, Karen, which is I know one of your favorite topics.

[568] It's a province.

[569] In Canada, too.

[570] It's in Canada.

[571] Saskatoon.

[572] Saskatchewan is definitely a province in Canada.

[573] In Canada.

[574] In Canada.

[575] As of October 2020, just recently, Saskatchewan has the highest crime severity index in Canada.

[576] And it's said to have the highest murder per capita.

[577] capital rate in all of Canada.

[578] Oh, welcome to fucking Saskatchewan.

[579] Wow.

[580] Uh -huh.

[581] The largest and most highly populated city in Saskatchewan is Saskatoon.

[582] Saskatoon, yes.

[583] Which is, it's between Alberta and Manitoba.

[584] You guys, since we all know where those are, it's right in the middle.

[585] Saskatoon has a population of over a quarter of a million people.

[586] And I went into my favorite murder email just to find someone describing what it's like there.

[587] And someone named Rawa said, I'm from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, up in Canada, where we are known for the freezing cold and the flattest land you can imagine.

[588] They say if your wife leaves you, you can see her going for three days.

[589] And then she says, my attempt at a dad joke, but it was excellent.

[590] It was excellent.

[591] But not to talk too much.

[592] It is, they call it the Paris of the Prairies.

[593] So it seems like a lovely little city.

[594] But it does have the second highest crime rate.

[595] in the province, and that includes crimes committed by law enforcement.

[596] So according to government statistics, about 75 % of the male prison population and 90 % of the female prison population are native Canadians or First Nations people, a statistic which is at least in part due to systemic racism and mistreatment by police officers.

[597] So one of those racist practices is what's been coined by the locals as Starlight Tours.

[598] So once thought to be just an urban legend or a rumor, a Starlight Tour describes a practice by police officers picking up, often inebriated or rowdy, indigenous people.

[599] And instead of taking them to the station for booking or to the drunk tank to sleep it off, they're driven to the outskirts of town, kicked out of the vehicle into often below freezing temperatures and without adequate winter clothes and made to walk back to town on foot.

[600] or die trying.

[601] So there was nothing to prove that those weren't just rumors until one man made it back alive.

[602] And this set off a huge fucking firestorm in the city.

[603] So on the night of January 28, 2000, it's freezing cold.

[604] And Darrell Knight, I think he's about 30.

[605] He's a member of the Kree Nation.

[606] He's hanging out his uncle's apartment when sometime before dawn there's like a little fight that breaks out.

[607] Daryl's not involved that he had been in trouble with the law before, and he had promised his family that he wouldn't, you know, do anything wrong.

[608] So he left the party being like, I'm not, because someone called the cops.

[609] He's like, I'm not going to be here when they get here.

[610] He doesn't want any trouble.

[611] Exactly.

[612] But he had only made it to the street before he ran into those cops that were on their way.

[613] And thinking he was involved in the fight, they arrested him.

[614] So the officers put him in the back of their cruiser and they take off with Daryl, of course, thinking that they're going to throw him in the drunk tank.

[615] or, you know, whatever.

[616] But as they head in the opposite direction of the police station, Daryl starts to get nervous, and he's like, what the hell's going on?

[617] He said it was like a chilling silence from the two cops who are white in the front seat.

[618] And he is freaking out a little bit, and they drive him to an isolated spot three miles outside of Saskatoon.

[619] So there they shout to him, quote, get the fuck out of here, you fucking Indian.

[620] And they slam his face on the hood of the car.

[621] They remove his handcuffs and get back into the police car, leaving him stranded.

[622] It's sub -zero temperatures.

[623] He only has on a light jacket for warmth.

[624] And he yells after them as they drive away, like, I'm going to fucking freeze out here.

[625] And they say, that's your fucking problem.

[626] So Daryl finds himself alone on the outskirts of town.

[627] It seems like an industrial area.

[628] And he later said, I thought I was dead, but something told me, don't give up.

[629] So he starts walking.

[630] He gets what he later says felt like 50 miles since.

[631] It was so freaking cold, but it was actually about two miles.

[632] And he ends up making it to a power plant, which seems deserted, because it's like five in the morning at this point.

[633] So he desperately bangs on a door.

[634] There's no answer.

[635] He continues around the building banging on doors, hoping there's somebody there.

[636] And at this point, he's not even cold anymore.

[637] He's starting to warm up, which sounds great.

[638] But as Daryl knows, and anyone who spent, you know, their little.

[639] life in this climate knows that's actually one of the last signs of hypothermia before death as you heat up and you start peeling your clothes off so finally fucking against all odds a night watchman at the power plant on his rounds hears the banging and opens the door to find darrell standing there there's icicles on his eyebrows and eyelashes the night watchman's like what the hell are you doing here it's five o 'clock in the morning and darrell tells him about the police ditching him The night watchman's like, I don't, it doesn't really believe him, but he lets him in anyways and calls a taxi for Daryl.

[640] Daryl says, thank you.

[641] You probably saved my life.

[642] So Daryl finally makes it home and, you know, now he's certain that those rumors about the Starlight Tour is real.

[643] His family want him to call the police and report what happened, but it's, you know, of course he doesn't want to.

[644] That's who didn't.

[645] Yeah, exactly.

[646] And you know how police cover for each other.

[647] But he had memorized the two officers.

[648] There's badge numbers before they ditched him, which is pretty incredible, but he just didn't want, he didn't want to call the cops.

[649] You just wanted to stay quiet.

[650] But then just one day after Daryl's Starlight Tour, the body of 25 -year -old indigenous man, Rodney Naistus, is found shirtless in an industrial area just north of the power plant where Daryl had walked to.

[651] So same area.

[652] and then a month later on February 3rd, 2000, 30 -year -old Lawrence Wegener, again, another indigenous man, is found in a field near that same area.

[653] Both of them are dead.

[654] Lawrence is wearing only a T -shirt, socks, and jeans.

[655] You know, it's the middle of fucking February and was last seen alive early on the morning of January 31st.

[656] So there's an inquest into their deaths, and they come up inconclusive.

[657] The report on Wegner says the cause of death was hyposophobic.

[658] thermia from prolonged exposure, of course, but there's no mention of homicide or how he got out there, you know, what he was doing out there.

[659] And in fact, when police had discovered his body, they hadn't treated the scene like a crime scene.

[660] So there's footprints everywhere in the snow.

[661] There's like looky -lose.

[662] Saskatoon police sergeant Bob Peters later admits that the crime scene was contaminated because investigators' curiosity and lack of training.

[663] Wagner's mother, Mary, she says her son was wearing boots and an expensive jacket the night he disappeared, but they're never located.

[664] The only thing that changes after this inquiry, it's a jury inquest into the deaths, is the jury recommends, quote, a standing order requiring police officers to record in their notebooks the names of individuals they take into police vehicles for whatever reason, which can you fucking believe it wasn't already in place?

[665] Like you have to write down if you take someone into custody for whatever reason.

[666] Them making that rule.

[667] Oh, yeah.

[668] Now you need to take this fucking, take a binder and start writing names down.

[669] Okay, well, if they're trying to fucking kill people with the weather, they're not going to write those names down.

[670] So all these things are like, it's all just a bunch of dumb bullshit red tape.

[671] That's what I was going to say.

[672] Believing that the police officer has the best intentions, which clearly they don't.

[673] I mean, how are people, this is just like.

[674] the story I did last week.

[675] How was the trust supposed to be there if the trust is broken over and over again?

[676] And then it's like, no, no, but we're in charge and let us manage ourselves.

[677] Totally.

[678] It's, we'll be our own.

[679] We'll oversee ourselves.

[680] That doesn't work.

[681] Okay.

[682] So these deaths, though, give Daryl the confidence he needs to come forward with his story.

[683] And so the media picks it up and obviously the treatment of Aboriginal people causes just total outrage in the province.

[684] There's protests and, you know, angry people and Amnesty International and other groups get involved and demand action.

[685] So all these people write letters to the local newspaper and like call into local talk shows and saying how angry they are.

[686] And one call comes into the Star Phoenix.

[687] But this caller tells the reporter to look into the paper's archives for a story that was published before written by journalist Terry Craig.

[688] So the story is about a mother who claims the police hadn't properly investigated her son's freezing death.

[689] So the journalist goes and finds the article.

[690] Her son was named Neil Stonechild, and he had died on the outskirts of town in 1990, 10 years earlier.

[691] So Neil Stonechild was a Salto First Nations teen.

[692] He was just 17 in November of 1990.

[693] He was already known around town with social services youth workers as a bit of a troublemaker.

[694] So he looks like that 80s, 90s, cool BMX dude.

[695] He looks like he'd be an over the edge with Matt Dillon, like the kind of long hair in the back.

[696] So he'd been convicted of breaking and entering earlier that year.

[697] And it actually walked out of a group home for young offenders.

[698] he was supposed to be in earlier in the week, and so there was a warrant out for his arrest.

[699] But despite his antics, the social service workers who knew Neil described him as likable and pleasant.

[700] His issues were exacerbated by alcohol, but he was going to AA meetings regularly before he walked out of the group home.

[701] And one of his social workers said that he was a smart kid with a lot of potential and that he had a terrific personality and he could have been anything he put his mind to.

[702] So Neil and his friend Jason Roy go out drinking.

[703] November 23rd, 1990.

[704] Just after midnight, the teens, they've been drinking, they go to an apartment building because a friend of theirs is in one of the apartments babysitting.

[705] But she hadn't told them what apartment she was in because she was like, fucking, I'm babysitting, stay away from the apartment, you're drunk.

[706] So they just start banging on all the doors, which totally sounds like something my friends and I would have done at that age, you know?

[707] So that prompts someone to call the police.

[708] So Jason, Roy, the friend, is cold and tired.

[709] He's like, let's just get out of here.

[710] But Neil doesn't want to back down.

[711] And so Jason ends up, like, ditching Neil and heads in the opposite direction, going to another friend's house.

[712] And a few minutes later, though, he says two police officers drive up to him in an alley.

[713] And they ask him for his name.

[714] And they say, do you know the young man sitting in the back of the seat of the car?

[715] They have someone in the back of the car.

[716] And he immediately recognizes that it's Neil.

[717] Jason, though, was also wanted at the time, and he also had a lengthy criminal record, so he gives the officers a fake name.

[718] He's like, I don't know.

[719] He says he doesn't know who Neil is, kind of trying to get out of it.

[720] He later says that Neil was screaming his name and blood running down his face as they drove away with him in the backseat of the car.

[721] Oh, my God.

[722] I know.

[723] When the cruiser pulls away, Jason says Neil swore and screamed at him, they're going to kill me. They're going to kill me. Five days later, on November 29th, 1990, 17 -year -old.

[724] Neil Stonechild's frozen body is discovered by workers in an undeveloped industrial area on the outskirts of Saskatoon.

[725] So he's found face down in the snow.

[726] He's only wearing jeans, a light jacket.

[727] He's missing a shoe.

[728] And there's news footage from that time that just show him lying out there.

[729] It's not super close, but it's so disturbing.

[730] And I can't imagine that just coming up.

[731] I mean, it's so disturbing.

[732] The Saskatoon police concluded that he had died while trying to walk to an adult correctional center and that he was overcome by the cold.

[733] And of course, they deny that Stone Child was abandoned by the officers.

[734] And of course, his mom doesn't believe this.

[735] There's no way her son would have walked anywhere when the temperatures were below, it was 28 degrees Celsius, below 28 degrees Celsius.

[736] Also, Neal's aunt reports that at the funeral home, she and Neil's sister saw that he had cuts across the bridge of his nose.

[737] He has bruises.

[738] It's obvious to them that he had been beaten up.

[739] And Neil's uncle also says that he noticed bumps on Neil's head and skin missing on his wrists, thumbs, and hands.

[740] And he thinks that maybe the scratches and all that came from Neil trying to pull off handcuffs.

[741] Yeah.

[742] On December 5th, so that's like six days later, the Saskatoon Police Service closed the investigation into the death of Neil Stone Child, despite the visible injuries to Neil's body.

[743] Um, when the investigation is closed, it's done so before they received the coroner's report or the toxicology report and prior to even, you know, completing witness interviews.

[744] So they have no information basically and they close the case.

[745] And they just state that the cause of death was hypothermia, which is like, no shit, but what is the fucking cause?

[746] Jason says that he spoke to police twice about his allegations.

[747] He says the police officer took a statement from him.

[748] He says, he says, he says, he.

[749] He says, he.

[750] He approached a homicide investigator several months later, but he never heard from the police again.

[751] Okay.

[752] So back to present day, which is the year 2000, star Phoenix reporter Leslie Perrault, publishes an article on February 22nd, 2000 that connects Daryl Knight's allegations with Stone Child's death a decade earlier.

[753] So she like, you know, this fucking Canadian journalist ties them all together.

[754] And it's thanks to this, I think, anonymous caller who's like, you need to look into this other.

[755] case.

[756] It's like, I don't think people had remembered it, maybe.

[757] So when inquiries opened and the two officers who had allegedly taken Daryl Knight on his Starlight Tour, their names were Hatchin and Munson.

[758] And they testified that they didn't break any laws and that Knight was never assaulted, but they both have different stories individually of what happened.

[759] And Hatchin claims that Daryl asked to be dropped off on the edge of town.

[760] His attorney argues that Daryl was well known to the police and had dealt with them before and had said to them, look, boys, drop me off anywhere.

[761] Just don't take me in.

[762] Like, take me anywhere.

[763] Just please don't take me to jail.

[764] The power plant was just where they happened to be.

[765] So then Munson's attorney denies that the drop -off was motivated by racism.

[766] He said there have been other individuals around Saskatchewan who said that they have been dropped off by different police forces.

[767] Some are Aboriginal.

[768] Some are not Aboriginal.

[769] I have my doubts that race was a factor.

[770] Either way, could we get it to stop fucking happening?

[771] You're acknowledging it's a practice that happens.

[772] Yeah, it's they're intentionally trying to kill people by cold.

[773] Yeah.

[774] Yeah.

[775] So the prosecutor says that the officers deviated from the code of conduct and that they did whatever they wanted to do and their detainment of Daryl Knight became unlawful the minute they decided to take him anywhere other than the police station.

[776] Yeah.

[777] Both officers are convicted of unlawful confinement in September 2001.

[778] The maximum sentence for that is 10 years, but they're only sentenced to eight months in prison.

[779] The Saskatoon Police Service does fire them after they're convicted, and the chief of Saskatoon's police service is also let go.

[780] Saskatchewan Justice Minister Chris Axworthy orders a review into the treatment of Native Canadians in the justice system.

[781] and police chief Russell Sabo apologizes to the Aboriginal Justice Reform Commission, saying the two officers, quote, failed to live up to their oath of office.

[782] Okay.

[783] So in a television interview, he also says that the abandonment of Aboriginal men by Saskatoon Police, quote, happened more than once, and we fully admit that.

[784] And in fact, on behalf of the police department, I want to apologize.

[785] It's quite conceivable there were other times.

[786] I think it's important we take ownership when we do something wrong.

[787] correct the behavior so wow yeah kind of unheard of maybe not in canada but sorry is that the race he did say the race was a factor in that yeah okay good so then in 2003 the saskatchewan provincial government holds a commission of inquiry known as the right inquiry w r i ghth because it's led by justice david right into neil stone child's death all the way back in 1990 so they opened that backup.

[788] Officers Larry Hartwig and Bradley Sanger argue their innocence and they say they didn't have any contact with Neil that night.

[789] Neil's family testify and Jason Roy testifies to what he saw.

[790] Finally, they get a chance to fucking, you know, I'm sure had been so frustrating for them that no one was listening for fucking over 10 years.

[791] So after hearing from 43 people, testimony from 43 people, over 20 months, the inquiry ends on May 19th, And the circumstances around Neil's death, unfortunately, are still considered officially unknown, which is very shitty.

[792] But Justice David Wright does release his findings in October 2004.

[793] And his report, I think people weren't expecting much.

[794] And it went way further than anyone thought it would.

[795] And he concludes that Neil Stonechild had been in police custody the night he died, despite the officers denying it.

[796] and that the marks on his wrists and his nose were likely caused by handcuffs.

[797] Wright also accepted the account of Jason Roy and believed everything he said, you know, describing seeing his bloodied friend in the back of the police cruiser.

[798] Jason's testimony led to, he got death threats and he said he was so distraught.

[799] He attempted suicide at one point, but ultimately he says he's glad he played a role in helping like and showing people that they can stand up for themselves.

[800] Yeah.

[801] So the officers Hartwig and Sanger are dismissed from duty in November 2004 within a month of their reports release.

[802] They appeal, their appeal is rejected, and the courts uphold the findings of the inquiry.

[803] So it's fucking, you know, it's not great, but it's an acknowledgement, I guess, which is so much further than ignoring it.

[804] Or covering it up.

[805] I mean, like the idea.

[806] that someone it did get in there.

[807] It's also so overt.

[808] That's kind of what's upsetting to me about it is it's so overt and it's so egregious.

[809] Yeah, it's like in your face, we can do whatever we want.

[810] And we're going to do it in the most, like, it's one thing to be like, oh, this kid, I'm, you know, we're going to judge him because he has a record or something and we're going to like make a life hard for him to try to get him to stop, you know, having a record.

[811] that's one thing that still is not a good way to do it, but it's, it's not that.

[812] It's trying to kill a person by putting them out into the freezing cold.

[813] It's inhumane.

[814] There's like utter disregard of a person's life.

[815] Yeah, completely.

[816] The report also goes on to say that relations between the police and First Nations people are problematic and he includes a comprehensive like notes on how police can start to earn back their trust because it's really fucked up at this point.

[817] Saskatoon's mayor that year is defeated in his run for re -election by a former officer who had broke ranks and spoke out at the inquiry.

[818] Whoa.

[819] Despite, I think, a lot of old school officers at the time were like, you know, don't fucking rat and all of that stuff.

[820] The police chief was fired.

[821] And for the first time, a First Nations woman is appointed to head of the city police commission.

[822] So, yeah, as per rights recommendations that he had wanted implemented, among other things, they're, they want, he want Aboriginal officers added to the municipal police forces in Saskatchewan, which was done.

[823] There's GPS tracking systems now are standard in all police cars.

[824] Video surveillance now tapes anything that happens in front of the cruiser and as soon as the police open the back door to place someone inside, it immediately starts recording.

[825] video.

[826] And an independent body now investigates complaints against police.

[827] So everything was enacted, which is, you know, pretty stellar.

[828] Yeah.

[829] It's, yeah, it's surprising.

[830] The police invited local Amnesty International officials to head a diversity advisory committee.

[831] So all officers took several days of diversity training and all new recruits have taken a full week of diversity training.

[832] And the number of Aboriginal police officers has nearly doubled since the inquiry.

[833] So a lot of steps have been taken to prove that, you know, there has been a problem and we're trying to address it.

[834] I think that the, you know, the heads of the First Nations people are now kind of interacting with the police and the government to like really address these problems.

[835] So, well, and they're in, they're not just interacting as people who have been visiting.

[836] victims of the police, but now they get to be there with people with power.

[837] They had, you know, the idea that there's a First Nations woman in charge of the police commission, is that what you said?

[838] Like, that is, so there's actually someone there that if you go and have an interaction, there will be someone that knows, like, what you're talking about and believes you.

[839] What's so important, it seems to me, in this is that the police need to understand the culture.

[840] of the people that they are, like, to serve and protect.

[841] It's not the same, you know, it's just, it's a different culture and an understanding and an empathy towards that is so important to, like, clearly they weren't seeing them as real people as humans.

[842] And so it's so important, that's diversity training to, to be able to see that.

[843] So, okay, this is a little fucking bananas, a little tidbit.

[844] Because, of course, everything is an all grand and shit, of course, not.

[845] trying to say that.

[846] In fact, in 2016, a student named Addison Herman was working on a project about police brutality, a school project.

[847] And we looked up the Starlight Tours on the Saskatoon Police Services Wikipedia article, like he went to the Wikipedia page to look up the Starlight Tours, and the entry was missing.

[848] There's no entry on the Starlight Tours.

[849] So he, you know, is young and smart, so it does a little tiny bit of digging and he's able to uncover that between 2012 and 2016, the Starlight Tours section on the page had been deleted several times and then he tracks the history of the entry and because you can fucking do that everything is traceable.

[850] He uncovers that the registration on the IP address that had deleted it came from the Saskatoon Police Service.

[851] Yeah.

[852] Yeah.

[853] So an internal investigation is done.

[854] Blah, blah, blah.

[855] It's all fucking lip service.

[856] On March 31st, 2016, a police spokeswoman announced that the section on Starlight Tours had been deleted using a computer within the department, but said investigators are unable to pinpoint exactly who did it.

[857] But it's like, you can tell the fucking desk it came from.

[858] You know, it's, it's 2016.

[859] You can tell these things.

[860] But they're like, we delete all or everything off the servers every 30 days.

[861] We can't tell who it was.

[862] We just know it was from the office.

[863] But the problem is not where it got deleted from.

[864] The problem is that it got deleted.

[865] Because that's erasing the history.

[866] that they are responsible for and that that's the problem this is colonization this is the effect of colonization where then you have a whole group of people who are treated terribly who are like the entire thing of it is like you can break it down into like oh well we sorry we can't trace how that but it's like no this is whitewashing that's what whitewashing is and that's why it happens because people do massively fucked up shit and then they just want to act like nothing happened and how dare you speak to us about how we do things how it's the how dare you thing when it's like no no how dare you right think that you can just go kill children go kill these people just go put them out because that like that's those people need to be weeded out and they need it like I mean obviously that's what happened but it's like you you can't make it well it didn't happen because there's in 2016 there's still someone in that fucking in that police station taking this entry down.

[867] So it didn't get weeded out, you know.

[868] Well, right, because you can't do a week of sensitivity training and think that that's going to change racism.

[869] It's called systemic for a reason.

[870] It's because it's in the veins.

[871] And also, guess what?

[872] If you did it, it might not be on Wikipedia, but it's in God's fucking Wikipedia.

[873] Guess what?

[874] That guy, you always claim that you love so much, God?

[875] He fucking knows.

[876] Well, and also everyone in your town knows.

[877] All the families of the people who were murdered know.

[878] So here's, and here's what you're too stupid to know is 16 year olds can go in and rewrite that entry on Wikipedia.

[879] Because that's what fucking Wikipedia is.

[880] Like, this is modern life.

[881] Yeah.

[882] That's how modern life works.

[883] Right.

[884] And I think the modernization of us now and the public having video, it's, they said the same thing, you know, about the racism isn't getting worse.

[885] It's just being fucking filmed now.

[886] And that's the same thing happening in Canada where it's, you know, there's so many of these cases that are being brought to light.

[887] And, you know, these people are like, this isn't new.

[888] You're just finally seeing it.

[889] You know, you're seeing what we see every fucking day.

[890] And you're finally listening to people who you've, it's been easy for you to ignore in the past.

[891] It's been easy for us to ignore in the past.

[892] Definitely.

[893] So recently in local newspaper found that indigenous students in Saskatchewan are more likely to be stopped by police than.

[894] non -Indigenous students.

[895] They receive, indigenous people receive harsher sentences than non -Indigenous people in Saskatchewan.

[896] And I said that 75 % of the male prison population and 90 % of the female prison population is Aboriginal.

[897] It said government commissions have been set up to address these concerns.

[898] But, you know, schools on reserves get less funding.

[899] The majority of kids in the foster care system are Aboriginal.

[900] And of course, as we know, a disproportionate number of Aboriginal men and women are missing and murdered each year.

[901] What's the podcast?

[902] It's missing and murdered.

[903] Yeah.

[904] That's a great pot.

[905] There's like a couple seasons of that.

[906] I should definitely check out the podcast missing and murdered.

[907] Ever since Daryl Knight survived his Starlight tour, his entire family has been living on the Seltu First Nations Reserve outside the city.

[908] Darrell says he doesn't feel safe in Saskatoon.

[909] You know, he feels like a target.

[910] There are other suspicious freezing deaths that are possible cases of Starlight Tours and something they go back as far as the 1960s.

[911] So just last week, November 25th, 2020, marked the 30th anniversary of the death of Neil Stonechild.

[912] His big brother, Chris, remembers Neil as a caring person with a big heart.

[913] He says he loved life.

[914] His mother, Stella, says, quote, not a day goes by when I don't shed a tear for my boy.

[915] And as of 2020, no Saskatoon police officer has ever been convicted for causing a freezing death for a Starlight Tour.

[916] And that is the story of Starlight Tours.

[917] Whoa, I've never heard of that.

[918] I'm glad you told it.

[919] It's a horrifying story.

[920] And I guess this is why we end on fucking hooray's.

[921] Do you want to go first?

[922] Do you want me to go first?

[923] Go ahead.

[924] Yeah.

[925] Okay.

[926] This is from Rebecca.

[927] Dot Teske 26.

[928] My fucking hooray is, since I'm not going home for Thanksgiving, I decided to put the money.

[929] would have used for gas to different use and help provide groceries for a family in need.

[930] It wasn't much, but hopefully helpful.

[931] That's fucking awesome.

[932] Oh, nice.

[933] Yeah, that's great.

[934] Let's see, this is from Annie McGonagall.

[935] And it says, my fucking hooray is celebrating the one -year anniversary of creating a social work department at a pediatric clinic serving primarily kids on the autism spectrum.

[936] Throughout this past year, myself and now two incredible other social workers have created a department that's provided in Pensive mental health care for over 50 new families in the Chicago area.

[937] So proud of my clinic, my coworkers, myself, but mostly my clients that work so hard every day.

[938] The kids I serve model strength, courage, and finding the good in all things.

[939] Woo!

[940] Oh, my God.

[941] That's awesome.

[942] Amazing work.

[943] Good job, Annie.

[944] Thank you for that work.

[945] Okay, this is from Chelsea Page Ricketts.

[946] My fucking array is that today, after over three years, my super religious parents who hate having a gay daughter finally invited my girlfriend to Thanksgiving dinner.

[947] I have no idea of meeting her change their view of my relationship at all, but they're finally trying and that's all I can really ask.

[948] Fucking hooray.

[949] Wow.

[950] I know.

[951] That's big.

[952] That's a huge step.

[953] That's really something.

[954] Yeah.

[955] That's that hope we were talking about.

[956] That's some hope.

[957] Yeah.

[958] That's some hope.

[959] Yeah.

[960] This is from Michelle Zupa and it says, my fucking hooray is that I got a real Christmas tree for the first time.

[961] ever this weekend with my boyfriend for our new apartment together.

[962] Yay.

[963] My sister got a Christmas tree while I was home and I swear to God, I mean, if you can get your hands on something that's like, even if it just smells like pine, even just like it's just like one of those, those air fresheners for your car, it's smell, it's so nice to be marking time in a way that, like, actually registers.

[964] Yeah.

[965] Like any little decoration that you have around your house.

[966] Yeah, I love having string lights up that aren't Christmas colors.

[967] So I can have, like, little Hanukkah stuff, just like white and blue.

[968] It's like, it feels good.

[969] It feels good.

[970] What you celebrate, actually celebrate it this year.

[971] Because I'm definitely one of those kind of people, whatever the holiday is, I'm one of the kinds of people.

[972] It's like, it's not worth it.

[973] I'm, you know, whatever.

[974] I don't want to bother or whatever.

[975] And I think this year of end.

[976] the idea of just the celebration of it's the end of the year it's it's a time of like charity it's a time of giving it's a time of caring about other people all those things however it whatever it means to you and whatever it looks like to you yeah I highly recommend this be the year that you do it yeah it makes a difference like it makes a difference on your own subconscious even if you're like oh it's just me and my apartment by myself it's like a reminder every day to to, you know.

[977] Yeah.

[978] That also, that it's like this is the season.

[979] Yeah.

[980] Overall for people to like remember to care and like reach out to each other and connect.

[981] Like now more than ever basically.

[982] Seriously.

[983] Put up decorations for every fucking December holiday.

[984] Get it all going.

[985] Celebrate all of them.

[986] Go go Santa.

[987] Go go onica.

[988] Whatever pagan ritual you might be able to look up and fight.

[989] They don't celebrate it.

[990] Oh, fuck.

[991] Then you have to take them all down, but that's a celebration in and of itself.

[992] And it's just showing respect.

[993] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[994] People have different beliefs.

[995] That's right.

[996] Or just like that can eat a ton of candy canes, whatever that means to you, whatever you can do.

[997] Oh, I love it.

[998] Vince has the cookies that he likes to have baked, like the just peanut butter with a Hershey kiss in the middle peanut butter cookies.

[999] Those are the goddamn best.

[1000] He just has to have those every year.

[1001] They're the, they're so good.

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] When you get one of those hot out of the oven so that they.

[1004] The Hershey's kiss is a little bit milky.

[1005] And the sugar is like kind of crunchy on top.

[1006] Oh my God.

[1007] Stop.

[1008] Are you kidding?

[1009] I'll drop some off for you.

[1010] Would you really?

[1011] Oh, wait.

[1012] We can do an exchange because then I can give you that moisturizing that I have.

[1013] Okay.

[1014] I'll do it.

[1015] I should probably get you a Christmas present too.

[1016] Fine.

[1017] I'll get you a Hanukkah presents.

[1018] I'll get you seven Hanukkah presents and stick them in a bag.

[1019] Yes.

[1020] Well, thanks for listening, guys.

[1021] Guys.

[1022] Here we are face to face.

[1023] Guess what?

[1024] It's today is December 1st.

[1025] It's the last month of 2020.

[1026] We're wrapping this fucking POS up in a big, beautiful bow, a non -denominational bow.

[1027] And we're going to get through these last 30 days and then have a true cleansing ritual of some kind.

[1028] Let's do that.

[1029] Let's do a witchy, crystal -y moon thing.

[1030] Yeah, we need to.

[1031] Right.

[1032] It's such, isn't it weird that it's already December?

[1033] in some ways it's like the longest and also then the fastest year of all time.

[1034] Absolutely.

[1035] Absolutely.

[1036] These walls.

[1037] That's all I've seen.

[1038] I mean, it is.

[1039] But we're making it guys.

[1040] We're holding hands together via podcast.

[1041] We're doing it together and we're doing our fucking best.

[1042] And even if we're not, we intend to at some point in our lives.

[1043] And, you know, and things are going to get better manifest it, believe it, light a candle, say it to your self um because it already is starting to and um they're yeah and we can uh we can this can all get better we deserve we deserve hope is what we yes we do and hope is smart that's right so have a little yeah and stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye yeah Elvis do you want a cookie