S13 E8: [Sage] This Guy is Intense

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[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] Episodes discuss topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, and murder.

[12] If you're in need of support, please visit Something Was Wrong .com slash resources for a list of non -profit organizations that can help.

[13] I'm not a therapist or a doctor.

[14] Most names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[15] Opinions expressed by guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent my views.

[16] Resources and source material are linked in the episode notes.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] You think you know me, you don't know me well.

[19] I'm Sage, and I recently, about a year and a half ago, was on the dating app Hinge.

[20] Dating apps were never really apart.

[21] of my life at all.

[22] I'm in my 20s, though.

[23] I had done the whole university and grad school thing.

[24] And then when I moved back after grad school, the world shut down because of COVID.

[25] And the only way you met people or really got to know anybody was they were either your neighbor or you knew them from your past somehow.

[26] And meeting new people to date was kind of out of the question because you don't really want to date your neighbor.

[27] You don't want to date coworkers.

[28] And you're only meeting your coworkers through Zoom anyways.

[29] So I had some friends in the area that were my neighbors.

[30] And they were all encouraging me to try the dating apps out.

[31] I had always been kind of afraid of dating apps.

[32] It was never my thing in college or grad school.

[33] So I didn't really know which one to pick.

[34] And when people started explaining them to me, I didn't want Tinder.

[35] because I was kind of told that was only for hookups.

[36] It wasn't really what I was looking for.

[37] I'm definitely more of a relationship type of person.

[38] So I was like, oh, I guess I'll go with Hinge because a lot of my friends had more positive things to say about Hinge.

[39] You can view a person's profile.

[40] You can tell where they are even in the area, which looking back is, that's a little creepy, a little bit of a creepy feature to me. but it says different little things about them whatever they think you should know so there's little prompts you can fill in like you should know this about me or what i do on a sunday is this and i thought it was kind of fun because who doesn't like really filling out profiles of like pictures about yourself and little fun like questions that you can answer so i was like i'll do the hinge one When I filled that out, I started matching with different people and figuring out who I didn't really like.

[41] And I guess there's a whole algorithm where the app starts sending you more people who you seem to click yes on.

[42] And I ended up matching with a guy by the name of Carter.

[43] I was the one who matched with him.

[44] I said yes to him.

[45] Mostly because on his profile, it said he was a critic.

[46] Christian.

[47] At that time, I was going to church.

[48] I had always grown up in the church.

[49] I was going back to church to make friends, but also just kind of reconnect with my faith.

[50] And I was like, okay, well, if I want a relationship, I guess they should have the same beliefs.

[51] And having the same type of religion, you have a basic understanding of like the same values in a way.

[52] I found that later on.

[53] That's definitely not always true.

[54] Other things that stuck out to me was he was super outdoorsy.

[55] I'm super outdoorsy.

[56] I have a Labrador hiking, paddleboarding, being by lakes is very important to me. I also live in the big state of Texas.

[57] So, I mean, you kind of got to live near some sort of body of water just to continue living in this heat.

[58] Other things is it was just basic attraction.

[59] He was a good looking guy.

[60] He had tattoos.

[61] tattoos, which I only have one tattoo, but I was like, oh, he's kind of edgy.

[62] I clicked yes, and we started a conversation, and right away, he was saying all the right things.

[63] I was like, oh my goodness, like this person actually exists.

[64] He was very courteous, very kind, always asking me questions.

[65] He was very sweet, very kind of Casanova, had that Southern Charm.

[66] And I grew up in Jersey.

[67] So Southern Charm, those types of manners, the big gentleman thing.

[68] It's very, very different is all I'm going to say.

[69] Southern boys have a very different version of gentlemen type about them.

[70] He was saying all the right things.

[71] What you think any love story would be like always asking me what I liked.

[72] And with some of the other guys on Hinge, they'd be like, hey.

[73] And I'd be like, well, hi.

[74] How's your day going?

[75] And then they'd be like, oh, well, my day is great.

[76] I'm at work.

[77] End a conversation.

[78] Don't ask about you.

[79] Don't ask about anything.

[80] So I was like, okay, well, this guy actually knows how to have a conversation.

[81] I learned later that it was more of an act.

[82] He had this nice southern gentleman roll or lines down to a tea, very polished.

[83] We've started talking the last week of January.

[84] And in February, he messages me and he's like, hey, what are you doing on Valentine's?

[85] Day.

[86] And I was like, there's no way this guy's going to ask me out on Valentine's Day.

[87] In the back of my head thought it was a little weird.

[88] My best friend, Della, and was like, you're seriously going out with a stranger on Valentine's Day because her and I had actually planned a girl's day where we zoom together.

[89] We live in different states, but she's my sister.

[90] I should have listened to a lot of Della's advice, but I did not.

[91] I was like, I don't want to be alone on Valentine's Day.

[92] I'm going to go out because I haven't been taken out on Valentine's Day.

[93] I think the last time I was taken out was probably my sophomore year of undergrad.

[94] So I was like, I am going out on Valentine's Day.

[95] However, as many of you know, the Texas storm arrived.

[96] When the Texas storm came in, it was one of our worst storms in history and it shut down everything in Texas.

[97] No one was going anywhere.

[98] Apartments got shut down for weeks.

[99] I didn't have running water for like three weeks, but the day it started was Valentine's Day.

[100] I remember messaging him three times being like, because he wanted to drive.

[101] He lived almost a half an hour from me, and the roads were already getting bad.

[102] Texas doesn't know how to deal with snow or even heavy rain.

[103] He's like, no, I'm going to drive up.

[104] I really want to see you.

[105] I told you that we were going to get together.

[106] I made reservations.

[107] He had everything in line.

[108] And I was like, oh my gosh, this guy's really.

[109] fighting for a chance to meet me. That's new.

[110] Most guys would be like, okay, yeah, never mind.

[111] See you later.

[112] Which I would have been fine with, but he was very insistent and I thought it was very, very charming.

[113] We get to the restaurant and we were like one of maybe five couples in the restaurant.

[114] He at first didn't necessarily look like his profile picture.

[115] He was wearing glasses and he wasn't wearing glasses in any of his other photos.

[116] but I excused it because I know a lot of people were contact sometimes.

[117] His stature was a little bit different.

[118] So we go to the table.

[119] He's like, do you want the booth?

[120] Do you want the chair?

[121] Really asking me what I like about things and what I don't like.

[122] He complimented me. Again, all that seven gentlemen charm.

[123] I don't normally drink a lot of alcohol at all and I make that very clear to people right off the bat.

[124] I'm a very short, tiny person.

[125] And so drinking alcohol is not necessarily always the best idea for me. I told him it was fine if he did, but I made it clear right off the bat that I'm not really about that.

[126] Drugs also came up and I told him right away, I'm not really about that.

[127] He was very understanding.

[128] He's like, oh, yeah, no, I used to kind of dabble with that stuff, but totally over it, not about it.

[129] I was like, okay, cool, we're on the same page about that.

[130] then the conversation got a little bit strange he had noticed that i had church on my hinge profile i believe on my sunday thing i said that i get up and go to church and then do brunch or go to the lake it was something like that i don't have my profile anymore on any of these dating apps but i had a lot about church in his mind he thought that i was very very extremely extremely religious.

[131] He started playing up his religion and he kept talking about it, saying how religious he was and his values and morals.

[132] It almost got to the point where I was like, oh my gosh, this guy is more religious than I am.

[133] But later he was like, I want to recommit to the church too.

[134] The next time you go to church, let me know and I'll start coming to church with you, which that was big for me. I don't think I had ever gone with a guy to church before in my life.

[135] There's not many guys that will do that.

[136] unless of your, like, months into your relationship.

[137] This is something that my guy friends, Ethan, Austin, and then my best friend, Della, all pointed out, they were like, ah, that's a little strange.

[138] Didn't listen.

[139] I thought he was just a nice guy, that he was really truly committing back to his morals and everything.

[140] I was like, oh, this is the keeper.

[141] This is a marrying type of guy.

[142] He even brought marriage up on our first date, which that did scare me, but I, again, excused it because of the way he was talking about it.

[143] He's like, I want kids.

[144] I want to raise them in the church.

[145] He's marking all those checkboxes that your mother kind of has for you in your life.

[146] When it really got strange, though, on that first date, was at the end, he asked me if he could get a picture together.

[147] And the waitress kind of looked at me and she was like, are you okay with this?

[148] At the beginning of the date, he told her when she was first came to the table.

[149] He's like, this is our first date.

[150] can you believe it?

[151] We're out here on Valentine's Day.

[152] I took her out on Valentine's Day, almost like he was bragging about it.

[153] I was not okay with him taking a photo, but I'm one of those girls that feels really awkward if someone asks like, hey, can we get a photo?

[154] Before I went through this experience, I definitely did not have hard boundaries, which I've learned to set up now, or if I'm uncomfortable with something, I now say it.

[155] Back then I was, more appeasing and more like, okay, like, sure, we can get a photo.

[156] And so he had her take like two or three photos of us.

[157] Before we left, he actually stole the flour from the table.

[158] And he was trying to give it to me. And I had said no to that flower.

[159] I was like, no, you're not supposed to take stuff off the tables of restaurants.

[160] And this would later on become a habit.

[161] Every time we went somewhere to a restaurant, it seemed like he would always take the flour.

[162] I think one time he took something else.

[163] I'm not remembering the object, but there was some piece of silverware or something.

[164] I thought it was really, really strange.

[165] And then he'd send me pictures of the items that he took.

[166] He's like, I still have the original flower.

[167] And that was a month after we had first started meeting.

[168] At the end of the day, it was snowing harder.

[169] And he's like, let me walk you home to make sure you get home.

[170] safe.

[171] I didn't have to drive.

[172] I lived only a few blocks away.

[173] And I was like, oh, again, such a gentleman walking me home, doesn't want me to slip and fall on the ice.

[174] Great.

[175] Later, after I ended up speaking with victim services at the very, very end of this experience, I found out he was trying to figure out where I lived.

[176] One of the warnings that I was given was never, especially if you're on a dating app and you don't know a person who you're dating, you should not have them walk you home and you should not show them exactly where you live because you just met the person back then I didn't really realize that I'm like oh he seems normal he is this Christian guy what could go wrong later on I would find out what would really really go wrong with that I'm Dan Taberski in 2011 something strange began to happen at the high school in leroy new york I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad I'm like stop around.

[177] She's like, I can't.

[178] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[179] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[180] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[181] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[182] Well, you were holding something back.

[183] Intentionally.

[184] Yeah, yeah.

[185] Well, yeah.

[186] No, it's hysteria.

[187] It's all in your head.

[188] It's not physical.

[189] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[190] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[191] Or is it something else entirely?

[192] Something's wrong here.

[193] Something's not right.

[194] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[195] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[196] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[197] You can binge all episodes of Histerical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[198] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[199] She had been under the influence that she left him there.

[200] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[201] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[202] What happens next depends on who you ask.

[203] Was it a crime of passion?

[204] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[205] This was clearly an intentional act.

[206] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[207] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[208] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[209] Everyone had an opinion, and after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[210] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[211] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[212] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[213] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[214] I call my best friend at the end of the date, and I tell her everything that happened.

[215] And she was very hesitant about it.

[216] She's like, well, I want to be happy for you, but I really think it's weird that he took a photo.

[217] I really think it's strange that he was talking about the Christianity thing, the way he was.

[218] She did not like the fact that he brought up marriage.

[219] And Della is very great at giving me advice I don't want to hear because she's probably the one who's toughest on me, but also probably loves me the most out of a lot of people I know.

[220] I should have started to heed her warnings a little bit.

[221] She knows me. She's like, don't get caught up on a guy you just met.

[222] The two frozen princesses, she's Elsa, who's.

[223] He's like, you can't marry a guy you just met.

[224] And I'm like, Anna, that's like, oh, but he's fabulous.

[225] No, they turn out not to be fabulous.

[226] But same day, he sent me a message thanking me for going on the date with him, which I thought was very sweet.

[227] Because normally I'm the one that sends the message like, hey, thanks for taking me out.

[228] When he dropped me off, he asked if he could kiss me. And I was like, not yet, which I'm glad I said that.

[229] But I also thought that was too soon, a little strange.

[230] I would soon learn that he was trying to escalate this relationship very, very fast, kind of like love bombing.

[231] The next day, he sends me another message to see if I'm okay with the winter storm.

[232] He wanted to know if I had power, what was going on, if there was anything that I needed.

[233] And I was like, no, I'm fine.

[234] I don't have power and my water's off, but they said it's only supposed to last a little bit.

[235] Later, we'd find out it would last like three weeks.

[236] By day three, he was still texting me and he actually asked to FaceTime me. So he had gotten in his car to charge his phone because that's what everyone is doing in order to charge their electronics.

[237] He FaceTimes me from his car.

[238] It was about 9 p .m. that night.

[239] We talked, I think, for almost two hours on FaceTime.

[240] And he's like, well, now I'm going to go back in to see my roommate.

[241] I might go to my brother's house.

[242] He's like, I don't really know where I'm going to go.

[243] I'm like, okay, as long as you're safe and I'm safe, I end up going to my parents because they had running water and heat.

[244] I drove my car through the ice with these huge cars coming around me and made it there.

[245] I stayed there for the next would be like two and a half weeks through this winter store because my apartment was still completely, everything was shut down and a lot of grocery stores were shut and everything.

[246] Thankfully, my parents had a ton of stuff.

[247] But every single day he's texting or trying to call me. They said he was at his brothers or his friends, but he never once showed me a picture of his family.

[248] He never shot a picture of his brother or anything like that.

[249] It was always just him.

[250] Later on, I would start asking about his family.

[251] When the winter storm was over, the day I got back to my apartment, he's like, well, let me take you out so you don't have to worry about going and getting groceries for yourself and cooking dinner.

[252] So we went out and got sushi because sushi's like my favorite food.

[253] He started to ask me about what I thought about him.

[254] If I saw the long -term relationship with him, this was only the second time we actually met in person.

[255] But in my head, I had been rereading his profile, seeing the pictures.

[256] I had FaceTimed with him and messaged him.

[257] So I made excuses being like, oh, well, technically I know him.

[258] I've been talking to them.

[259] You can kind of qualify Zoom dates as dates.

[260] No, you cannot.

[261] You cannot qualify Zoom dates as actual dates.

[262] You don't get body language.

[263] You don't get personality, really.

[264] I learned a lot about how almost ineffective communication is through Zoom.

[265] Even though I do it on a daily basis for work, if you're trying to invest in someone relationship -wise or build something with someone that's stronger than just a mediocre relationship, it definitely should be in person.

[266] But in my head, I knew him.

[267] And I was like, well, I definitely am looking for a relationship.

[268] I'm not looking for a one -night stand.

[269] I'm not looking for like a quick fling or anything like that.

[270] And he's like, oh, yeah, me too, me too.

[271] He's like, how soon is too soon for like me to ask you to be in a relationship.

[272] I was like, we should probably go on a few more dates and stuff like that.

[273] again he started walking me home my apartment has gated doors so i did my card to scan in i opened it you walked through a courtyard i was on the ground apartment if you're a single woman you probably shouldn't live on the ground floor but i did because i didn't want to haul all my stuff up to another floor when i moved in i showed him which unit was mine i did not let him in my place at that time but he knew what number I was by then.

[274] He also knew how to get into the gates as well.

[275] He left and then right away he's like, I want to see you again.

[276] When can I see you next?

[277] We started seeing each other rather frequently.

[278] I don't even think we'd go full two days without seeing each other.

[279] I have a busy work schedule and he said he did as well.

[280] Every single day that we were meeting, he's like, let's meet at five exactly at five and I was like okay I sign off at five but I guess I can make that happen we'd meet at five we'd go for dinner or we'd go to the big park outdoor recreation because I have my Labrador who he got to meet the day he met my lab I call my dog my son because he's very much my son but the day he met my lab he's like oh I'm going to be his dog dad that bothered me a guy I recently dated also had said that right when they met my dog and for some reason that really bothers me that should have been a red flag for me as well because it's like it's my dog it's not your son even like if we were a date it's not your son if you're a dog mom or a cat mom i think you'll get this a little bit more um very possessive of my dog but he called himself the dog dad and i was like he just met him my dog tends to like everyone because he's a labrador it was a really strange experience.

[281] He never wanted to sit with them or anything, which that's a big red flag.

[282] If your pet doesn't like a guy, well, that should be a big, big sign.

[283] But he would bring me out to these restaurants and he would always have me home before 9 o 'clock.

[284] Even in high school when I was on dates, I wasn't home at 9 o 'clock.

[285] I thought it was very strange.

[286] Eventually, Della was the one who brought up.

[287] She's like, I hate to tell you this.

[288] It's either he's seeing someone else or he's probably like drinking or doing drugs.

[289] I was like, okay, like noted.

[290] The next time we went on a date, I had already had a day and I can get moody.

[291] I admit it.

[292] I can get moody.

[293] He took me out and it was five o 'clock.

[294] We were at another sushi restaurant, very close to my place.

[295] I always had to be close to my apartment.

[296] By the time the check came, it was seven, and he's like, okay, well, let me get you home.

[297] And I finally was like, why do you always take me home early, like pretty early in the night?

[298] I asked him, are you seeing another girl, or are you drinking?

[299] Are you doing drugs?

[300] He's like, no, no, not at all.

[301] You just seem really busy and your work schedule is hard.

[302] I'm just trying to be sincere and courteous.

[303] I'm just thinking of you.

[304] I'm like, oh, okay, I dropped it.

[305] I was like, oh, that makes sense.

[306] But I did explain to him, I'm like, no, we can stay out later.

[307] I don't have to go home and sleep right away.

[308] We can stay out and actually do what most couples do.

[309] Stay out until like three in the morning on a Friday sometimes having fun.

[310] He was like, oh, okay, okay, well, let me still get you home early tonight and the next time we'll do that.

[311] He started planning things more during the day, like a hike or something.

[312] And I was like, okay, well, this is still weird.

[313] The next night activity he planned, though, I was like, let me meet your friend.

[314] He had met Austin and some of my other friends.

[315] Austin, my guy friend, when he first met him, was like, he's not the usual guy I would put you with.

[316] He's not the one that you normally go and talk to when we go out.

[317] He also thought he was rather skittish when he started asking him questions.

[318] And let me be clear, Austin is not a threatening guy.

[319] He is very nice.

[320] He is a social butterfly, one of the most open guys.

[321] He can relate to anyone on anything.

[322] So for him to think that Carter was super uncomfortable or skittish around him, I was like, well, that's weird.

[323] No one has ever told me they've had.

[324] had a problem with Austin either because Carter did mention that he didn't really get along with Austin either and I was like okay well maybe they're kind of opposite Carter's more the sporty guy maybe they're just different later on I'd find out it's Ethan who picked up on that Carter was skittish because Carter couldn't keep his story straight with all my friends and he'd always backtrack on things or trying re -savings in different ways.

[325] So Ethan is really the one that ends up kind of picking up more on how strange this guy ends up being.

[326] But despite the warning from Austin and Della off the bat, I was like, no, I still want to get him.

[327] I want to know his friends.

[328] So I go and meet Carter's friends and he says that I'm meeting his roommate and his one friend with his friend's girlfriend.

[329] I was happy to meet the roommate because at this point, I had never been in Carter's car.

[330] I always either drive to the restaurant to meet him or I met him somewhere or I walked and met him because we were always going around places where I was.

[331] I parked and I'm like, okay, he does have a car.

[332] At least I get a roommate.

[333] Maybe I can get a glimpse of what his place might look like because you can kind of gauge how someone lives based on who they are and who they live with.

[334] I was excited to meet his friends, and especially another girl.

[335] It's always exciting to meet a girl who's a friend of the guy you're dating.

[336] I don't know.

[337] I always find that fascinating.

[338] This is a chance I get to see another glimpse into his life because I'd only known him.

[339] I haven't been to his place yet.

[340] I haven't been in his car yet.

[341] I get to meet his roommate at least.

[342] Now I get to know another piece of him.

[343] When I was walking up with him to go meet his friends, we were in the big park that's in our city.

[344] When I went up to them, it was very, very clear, but they were completely high.

[345] They definitely had been using drugs.

[346] I can spot drugs like a mile away in college.

[347] I had to take people to the hospital for it.

[348] I know when someone is high or I can normally tell exactly what types of drugs are in their system just by looking at them.

[349] So that caught me off guard on that first date who's very clear that he probably would only have like one to two beers, tops.

[350] And he hadn't used drugs for a long, long time.

[351] That was like in his high school past even.

[352] I was like, okay, well, this is strange because you're very, very good friend, his girlfriend and your roommate are all using.

[353] Also, they did not have the same type of attitudes that my friends do where they're very engaging.

[354] They usually just ignored me really when I sat down.

[355] Didn't try to engage the girl.

[356] She's on drugs.

[357] So she was in a different world when I met her.

[358] She was running around to different people in the park too and talking to them.

[359] So I didn't really get to know her a lot.

[360] But when she did come up, she was flirting with every single guy at the table.

[361] Then there is another man who comes up, he twirls fire for a living.

[362] That's what you see in the park when you're here.

[363] But he clearly knew Carter because he comes up and he's like, hey, it slaps them on the back, inserts himself right in the middle between me and him.

[364] He's shooting the breeze with them.

[365] And I was like, this is very strange.

[366] He was also clearly using something.

[367] And Carter's just there trying to smile, but he kept looking at me with this fear in his eyes.

[368] I'm very uncomfortable because a lot of the subjects they were talking about were rather inappropriate.

[369] And they turned to me and started asking very inappropriate questions about our relationship.

[370] Like if we'd slip together, wanting to know different details.

[371] And I was like, this is not the type of conversation I have with anyone ever.

[372] I don't think I ever have deep conversations like that in public.

[373] Della and I don't even go across that line if things happen.

[374] Like, I don't need to know all the dirty details.

[375] It was a very different experience for me. I was like, hey, I got to go.

[376] I'm going to go let my son River out, my dog, because I always use him as an excuse if I can.

[377] I start walking back to my car.

[378] And, of course, Carter jumps to his feet and he's like, I'll walk you back.

[379] I'm very caught off guard here.

[380] I did make it kind of clear that that was not okay.

[381] On our walk to my car, I told him, thanks for introducing me to your friend.

[382] I said it in a nice way.

[383] I was like, they are nothing like my friends.

[384] And I did question him on the substance abuse.

[385] I was like, well, if all the people who are close to you are using, that kind of makes me question if you're using or not.

[386] You haven't had me to your place yet.

[387] I haven't even seen your car.

[388] And he started making excuses for it.

[389] By the time I got to my car, I was like, look, I'm just going to go home.

[390] Let me think about this.

[391] I wish looking back at that, that that would have been what broke the camel's back.

[392] For me, realizing kind of who he was, but it did not.

[393] On the way home, I had called Austin and told him what had happened.

[394] He's like, that's not okay.

[395] He even offered to go for a walk with me and talk it out.

[396] I was like, no, I'm fine.

[397] I think I'm just going to have to talk to Carter about it and make sure that he's not using.

[398] Austin called me out on it.

[399] He's like, if you believe he's not using, but he hasn't had you to his place and you haven't even sat in his car, he's like, then you're, he basically called me an idiot.

[400] And I'm like, okay, Della later on told me basically the exact same thing.

[401] Carter tries to call me while I'm talking to Austin.

[402] I kept sending him to voicemail.

[403] He left voicemails.

[404] I finally called him back.

[405] And he's like, look, I'm so sorry.

[406] I'll completely leave my friends if they bother you.

[407] I don't need to be friends with them.

[408] I don't even need to talk to my roommate.

[409] I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[410] I'm not asking you to abandon your friends because I knew if he had ever would ask me to do that.

[411] I'd be like, no, my friends are my friends.

[412] But he's like, no, it's fine.

[413] It's totally fine.

[414] I don't ever need to talk to them.

[415] I told you I want to recommit to my faith.

[416] I don't need this influence in my life.

[417] Again, trying to say all the right things to me to make sure everything was okay and that I continued to believe this kind of like, I'm going to be a good Christian guy narrative that he was trying to give to me. I was like, okay, if that's really what you want to do, that's fine.

[418] It should have been the ultimate red flag.

[419] If someone's willing to just leave their friends completely for you, that's very, very strange, especially knowing if you yourself would never do that.

[420] It's definitely telling because if people can leave people so quickly that were so important to them in their life, I should have asked myself, well, what if he decides to do that to me one day?

[421] What if he decides to just be like, oh, she's not going to influence and leave?

[422] but I didn't think that way.

[423] We continued to date and he even went to church with me. And he's like, let's join small groups.

[424] I'll join the men's small group.

[425] You can be in the women's small group.

[426] We ended up going to the church group.

[427] I made really, really good close friends with these girls.

[428] He became really close with the guys.

[429] Even the pastor ended up knowing our names because Carter and I would be going to church.

[430] We fully invested ourselves full force into this church.

[431] as problems started coming up and I shared them with some of the girls, I wasn't supported the way I thought I would be.

[432] If anything, they ignored it.

[433] I always only had to lean on basically Ethan Austin and Della and my parents a little bit.

[434] But being in the church, it gave me the illusion that we were this really good Christian couple.

[435] And I think the church wanted to believe that as well.

[436] They loved our story.

[437] We met on Valentine's Day.

[438] We're a couple that goes to church together because not a lot of people in their 20s decide to go to church on Sunday morning.

[439] So they wanted to keep that image up like we have 20 -year -old couples that come together.

[440] A week after the incident with his friends happened, he asked me to be his girlfriend by giving me that Instagram book.

[441] I really know what's called, but he knew I love taking pictures for Instagram and editing them.

[442] I'm a big Instagrammer.

[443] So he's like, let's do an Instagram challenge couple's style.

[444] And you can get these book for friends.

[445] You can give them for family.

[446] And then there's a couple's one.

[447] And I was like, oh my gosh, that's so sweet.

[448] And he wrote a note.

[449] He was big on writing handwritten notes.

[450] I was like, cool.

[451] We'll fill it out together.

[452] My body was super sweet.

[453] That's super personal.

[454] He's like, oh, I had to order this.

[455] Again, talking himself up.

[456] He had to go through all these struggles to make this happen.

[457] And I'm like, okay, wonderful.

[458] I was like, yeah, I've got this great guy.

[459] Once we were official, I was like, well, he should meet my parents.

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[470] So after church, my parents came up from their service to take us both out for lunch.

[471] And he met my parents, did the whole like, yes, sir, shaking my dad's hand.

[472] If you could picture a perfect greeting of a father and a guy, happened.

[473] We went and got barbecue.

[474] He offered to pay.

[475] My dad's like, no, no, no. I've got it.

[476] Thanks.

[477] Both my mom and my dad really liked him.

[478] They thought he was fine.

[479] They thought he was very respectful.

[480] So I was like, okay, we're going to go with that.

[481] He's a good guy.

[482] If my dad and my mom both approved, then he's got to pass the test because I've had it where neither my dad or my mom approved.

[483] I've had some of the worst experiences you could have introducing a guy to your father where my dad didn't even acknowledge that the guy came in the room.

[484] I was like, good, my dad's talking to this one, so this one must be a keeper.

[485] Later on, he was like, this is so important to me that your parents really like me, his parents were divorced, he told me, and he said that his dad was extremely abusive to him growing up.

[486] He said that his dad pointed a gun at him at one point.

[487] When he told me that story, it was very strange because he didn't have any emotion.

[488] We were walking and he was just like, oh yeah, my dad pointed a gun at me once.

[489] To me, especially growing up where I did, a parent doesn't randomly point a gun at you.

[490] But again, I excused him.

[491] I was unsettled.

[492] Even today, it's very unsettling that he would tell a story like that about being abused.

[493] It was very unemotional as if it was like, I had a sandwich for lunch.

[494] Something so casual.

[495] And I'm like, this is super, super unsettling that you have like zero emotion surrounding this.

[496] Della's like, well, maybe that didn't happen.

[497] Maybe he just wants you to think that happened.

[498] To this day, I honestly don't know if any of those things.

[499] happened to him.

[500] If they did, that's tragic.

[501] He said, I love you like very soon.

[502] I think it was only four weeks even into meeting me. Even before he asked me to be his girlfriend, he said that he loved me and he wanted to marry me. I was like, oh my gosh, this guy's intense.

[503] He always told me he's like, it's okay if you're not ready yet, but you're going to, I'm going to marry you.

[504] Later on, I had sent Della even a Pinterest board of wedding colors.

[505] And Della's like, you've known this guy for a month and a half and you have a wedding Pinterest board but to me I thought I'd met this dream guy I was like you know what some people meet and they get married right away you don't know maybe it works but I really started like falling hard for this guy and ignoring all the red flags he would say that his dad and mom are divorced and then he'd mix up the towns that his parents lived in I asked him about his step siblings and again he'd mess up their names sometimes I couldn't keep it straight and I thought it was just me because I'm bad with names he was talking about his brother and I was like your brother you said that you stayed with him during the winter storm do I get to meet your brother you met my family can I meet your family he's like yeah let me let me try and arrange that it took almost three weeks for him to arrange meeting his brother and this is where I should to just slam my fist on the table and been like, this does not make sense because when we got to the restaurant, he and I were sitting on the curb waiting for them.

[506] This guy and this girl get out of a car and this guy was the spitting image of Carter.

[507] I get up and I'm waving at this guy and this guy's just staring at me. Carter's sitting on the curb looking up at me like, what are you doing right now?

[508] I start walking towards this guy.

[509] I'm like, I'm sage.

[510] And the guy goes past, literally skirts around me as if I have something and keeps walking.

[511] And I turn back to Carter and I'm like, isn't that your brother?

[512] And he's like, no, that's not my brother.

[513] This is my brother.

[514] This guy is pulling up in a car.

[515] And then this guy and this girl come up.

[516] Carter was something in the five foot range.

[517] This guy way over six feet tall.

[518] Carter was more tan, dark hair.

[519] hair.

[520] And the guy walking up to me, super blonde.

[521] And I'm just like, did the milkman drop one of you off?

[522] What's what's going on here?

[523] He's like, no, this is my brother.

[524] He just takes after my mom's side more.

[525] I'm like, okay.

[526] Yeah.

[527] Just nodding my head and accepting it as a fact.

[528] The girl walking up He's like, hey, I'm Carrie.

[529] I have been dating him for a while now.

[530] Then we come and sit down at the table, and I start asking his brother, Lee, so Lee, like, what do you do?

[531] Carter's told me this about you.

[532] You played football and like, blah, blah, blah.

[533] And he's just staring at me, nodding his head.

[534] I was like, well, like, can he have anything to add to this conversation?

[535] And he's just like, yeah, that's pretty much, that's pretty much me. Both him and his girlfriend are silent, silent, not saying anything, which I thought was really weird.

[536] Then Carter's like, we're going to go order some stuff, maybe get some drinks.

[537] Carrie's sitting there and she's just staring at me. I was like, when did you guys meet?

[538] She kind of just sat there for a while and she's like, we met back in college, which that's not what Carter told me. Carter told me they met here.

[539] So I was like, oh, okay, maybe Carter got it wrong.

[540] I don't know if my brother would keep my story straight of how I met someone.

[541] And again, I excused it.

[542] But the whole dinner was that way.

[543] They couldn't tell me anything about their past.

[544] I asked Lee about their dad and the mom, and he always looked at Carter.

[545] He even said things like, oh, Carter's better at telling that than I am.

[546] I basically was rubbed wrong by them not being very responsive to the conversation at all.

[547] I kind of played it off as, oh, well, maybe they're introverts or maybe they just don't like me. So then a few days go by, I'm having a friend's night.

[548] And this is where everything goes wrong.

[549] That's next time on something was wrong.

[550] Thank you so much for listening.

[551] Until next time, stay safe, friends.

[552] Something Was Wrong is a broken cycle media production, created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[553] If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram at Something Was Wrong podcast.

[554] Our theme song was composed by Gladrags.

[555] Check out their album, Wonder Under.

[556] so much.

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