58 - Some Quiet Sunday

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Murders in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[17] Hi, welcome to my favorite murder.

[18] Hello.

[19] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[20] Hello.

[21] Hello.

[22] I've got to learn how to start this thing someday.

[23] What was wrong with that?

[24] Really creepy, unnatural speaking voice.

[25] It was too light.

[26] It was kind of like when someone says they'll scratch your back, but then they kind of just lightly drag their hand across your back.

[27] No, don't touch me. What is worse than that?

[28] You know what's worse than that is when those blankets that when your heel, it's like your heels a little dry and it rums like rubs across those like woolly blankets or like gets cut on.

[29] a cuticle like you're a fucking goat like like you're so not uh you're so disgusting that like blankets are like long it's been since you fucking taking care of yourself hey miss havisham why don't you fucking soak these feet yeah that you know what's worse what uh when a guy puts his head on your shoulder what oh why are you serious Don't you?

[30] Isn't that the grossest thing of all time?

[31] I don't understand that one.

[32] I don't know.

[33] I just hate it.

[34] Wow.

[35] That was so amazing.

[36] I really thought you were going to be with me on that one.

[37] I don't know.

[38] No, I don't get it.

[39] I don't know.

[40] It's like to be cute or something.

[41] Oh, where it's like, can you not be precious?

[42] Like a guy doing that is like.

[43] Well, you, because you also like a masculine dude who takes care of you.

[44] And a guy who fucking puts his head on your stupid shoulder is like, I mean, it's just a little like they might as well also kick their outside leg up when they kiss you and like pull their skirt out a little bit what the hell I'm fine with that but you know it's even grosser when you don't have a garbage disposal and you have to take the food out of the fucking the wet food out of the drain of the sink I don't know what you're talking about that's how it feels to be abandoned no it just made me like.

[45] Wait, did you have to do that by hand and then throw it in the garbage?

[46] Yes, and it makes me sick to my stomach.

[47] How old is the food?

[48] Days, weeks?

[49] No, it's just like you just did the dishes.

[50] And it's like food from your mouth.

[51] You're not a soaker though, because I'll go ahead and I'll soak some dishes for a good two weeks.

[52] Do you ever do that where you're like, I'm cleaning them by letting them sit in the sink with soapy water in them?

[53] Yeah, I'll put some I'll put some cold water in a bowl of like yogurt and that's never going to work.

[54] It's always the yogurt or like cereal and it's like it's still going to get stuck to the bowl every time.

[55] Yes.

[56] Like the thing that we'd yell in my house is put water in it.

[57] It's like nobody knows.

[58] We'd live in that house.

[59] I lived there for 16 years and the dishwasher never worked a single day that I live there.

[60] Where?

[61] Not the other apartment.

[62] In the house I grew up in.

[63] Oh yeah, yeah.

[64] Yeah.

[65] So you always had to do everything by hand.

[66] Yeah.

[67] Yeah.

[68] And so when people would almost willfully, ignorantly, leave a bowl of cereal in the sink, knowing full well, it was just going to then be cemented onto the side of that bowl.

[69] Right.

[70] And you'd get yelled out and have to do it.

[71] Yeah.

[72] And then you'd have to take your fucking hand and take all the wet food out.

[73] Wait, you have a garbage disposal now, don't you?

[74] Now I do.

[75] Yeah.

[76] Like that's, yeah, now I do now.

[77] You must run that thing all day long.

[78] Oh, love it.

[79] Just for no reason.

[80] On all day.

[81] just creating kind of a nice white noise in the background it's so comforting you know what i hate tell me is when you're like taking a shower and you're just like oh it's so great to get clean and you look down there's like straight up black mold in your shower something like where you you you the thing of like you don't notice how filthy you are until you look at one thing and then you're like oh my god yeah that's not like grout that's not black grout the grout is white if someone else saw this who was a clean person?

[82] Yes.

[83] Well, right now in my shower, I hope you didn't see that when you just peed is that like there's leg shavings.

[84] Everyone.

[85] Because I just now, like this is the first time I've had a white shower.

[86] Yep.

[87] Because our last one was like gray and pink, like vintage gray and pink.

[88] Sure.

[89] And you can't see that shit on gray.

[90] No. But now it's all white.

[91] Now you have to look at your own body.

[92] Leg shavings.

[93] Offerings.

[94] I wonder if Vince notices this too.

[95] I mean, he must be into it.

[96] my sister when she came down once because she is a super clean type a type person and i am not my sister got crazy bummed because the i have that um the drain in my bathtub where your hair gets caught in it it gets caught there's no like secondary screen i'd be able to find because it's just there isn't one yeah so it's always backing up and my sister was so bummed at the amount of water because it was like.

[97] No, I get it.

[98] Yeah.

[99] And then I was just like, oh, you're right.

[100] That is gross.

[101] But I've never noticed it's just how it is.

[102] Like standing water.

[103] Standing water.

[104] I don't like that either.

[105] Because then.

[106] It is gross.

[107] It's gross.

[108] And then the leg shavings are like getting attached to your ankles.

[109] That's right.

[110] And also they stay when the rest of it drains because it drains so slow.

[111] Yeah.

[112] Then it creates its own kind of like it looks like a map.

[113] Like a topological map of a river basin.

[114] look at you look at yourself look at you can i bring this back around sure however it does make your feet nice and soft on their soaking in the water there it sure does and then they won't rub on a blanket and scrape and make you feel like shit and scrape be scraped anyways that's been my favorite murder can you imagine someone who's listening for the first time they're like what the they're just like um i saw this um i came in here for decapitated heads this was on a murder list and it certainly is no murder this is my favorite murder really quick one time my dad said to me he came down to visit me and then my like the thing broke in my toilet he had to go in and fix the stopper whatever it is oh i hate that and while we were standing in there he goes hey why don't you spend some quiet sunday cleaning behind this toilet holy shit and the level of total disgust that he said it with i think of it every time I'm in the bathroom by myself.

[115] That is an extra level of being condescending.

[116] He couldn't just say, hey, you should clean the back of your toilet.

[117] Oh, no. It always has to be like a one -man show in our family.

[118] Why don't you take a quiet?

[119] Spend some quiet Sunday.

[120] Wow.

[121] Cleaning behind this toilet.

[122] I don't know, Dad, because I'm busy going to therapy to get over you.

[123] Or maybe because I just party.

[124] Yeah, maybe because I have a fucking life.

[125] I like love, I love to be outside where the toilet isn't.

[126] Yeah.

[127] Because I have friends.

[128] I don't like the toilet as much as you do.

[129] Dad.

[130] What am I saying now?

[131] Because you know what's important to me, Dad?

[132] Living my life.

[133] Living my life.

[134] And if that means having a filthy toilet, so be it.

[135] So be it.

[136] You know whose problem that isn't?

[137] Mine.

[138] Mine.

[139] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[140] It's a murder podcast for murder.

[141] Murder officiados.

[142] Only murder.

[143] People run to murder.

[144] So much murder.

[145] That's it.

[146] Crime.

[147] God, we're all about it.

[148] Justice.

[149] Oh, that's us.

[150] totally america america uh that's karen kilgarov that's georgia that's georg hi we're here to host this show and sometimes we talk about uh personal stuff we do totally i don't know if you was that even personal that was just like i don't know every day um i met a guy today who works in a morgue he's going to work in a morgue and is going to morgue person school yes where we went to lunch today and i got so excited i had this incredible credible therapy appointment that, like, made life sunnier, then I go to this, to the restaurant that we were going to meet at.

[151] It's Jones on third.

[152] It's not like we go there every day.

[153] It doesn't matter.

[154] Everybody goes there.

[155] It's a great place to eat in Studio City.

[156] Well, the guy is ringing me up for my coffee was like, how's your day going?

[157] And I'm like, good, thanks.

[158] How's yours?

[159] And he's like, great.

[160] I had a job interview.

[161] I'm like, oh, Jesus, fucking guy is talking to me now.

[162] I'm like, oh, being polite, oh, what was it for?

[163] And then he was like, oh, at the LA County morgue.

[164] And I was like, what the fuck?

[165] Look.

[166] Do you think he knew?

[167] No. I love that so much.

[168] He just told like he didn't know how I would react.

[169] And of course I grabbed him by the arm.

[170] Did you really?

[171] Yes.

[172] Across the counter.

[173] Oh my God.

[174] Tell me everything.

[175] And he was like, oh, you know, blah -bitty blah.

[176] I'm going to school to be a mortuary.

[177] Mortician.

[178] Something like that.

[179] And I was like, that's amazing.

[180] You're in the right.

[181] L .A. is going to be incredible.

[182] And he's like, I know.

[183] The murder.

[184] Well, I said, I said, this is L .A. is going to be a great place to do that.

[185] He said, I know the murder count just keeps going up.

[186] That's right.

[187] He said that.

[188] And then I turn around and this girl came up to me and was like, hi, I really like the podcast.

[189] This is weird.

[190] My grandfather is a serial killer.

[191] No. Literally moments later.

[192] Okay.

[193] That's when I walked in.

[194] Yeah.

[195] Okay.

[196] So I have the bad habit of my sunglasses are also prescription.

[197] So when I come in from outside and my sunglasses are always on my head, which means I can't see.

[198] I always forget that you can't see anything.

[199] Yeah, I can't see, well, like, I can't see past like a couple feet in front of me. Yeah.

[200] So, like, and it helps me because walking into a place like that.

[201] Jones on Third is very like, C &B scene type of place.

[202] And I always get real insecure, whatever.

[203] So I'm like, oh, good, better that I don't know my glasses on, except for reading menus and seeing where Georgia's sitting and all the things that actually involved meeting someone from a lot.

[204] I saw you, but I was in the middle of this discussion with this girl, Anna.

[205] But also, I didn't realize, like, I wouldn't.

[206] I thought you'd be sitting by yourself.

[207] So when I, when I, when this kind of one blurry figure waved an arm, I was like, what the hell's going on that I have to go over here now?

[208] And I walk up and Georgia is in full on like kind of don't interrupt us conversation.

[209] No, what I was saying is don't tell Karen, don't tell Karen.

[210] When she walks over, don't tell Karen, yeah.

[211] So wait, you're going to tell me right now?

[212] Yeah, he was a fucking serial killer.

[213] He's in prison.

[214] He was like the sheriff in Bakersfield and he was killing sex workers.

[215] No. She didn't know until she was older, and then she saw an episode of, like, forensic files and was like, that's my grandfather.

[216] Like, she always knew he was in prison, but didn't know what the deal was.

[217] Hold on.

[218] I know.

[219] Was that in, like, the 80s or 90s?

[220] She was like 11, I guess, and she looked in her early 20s.

[221] Yeah, she was pretty young looking.

[222] That is so intense.

[223] I know, so I was like, this is Anna.

[224] Bye.

[225] Bye, Anna.

[226] Get out, Anna.

[227] Because I can't keep a secret.

[228] I'm like, not good at that.

[229] Sorry, I didn't want to be like telling you.

[230] That's so.

[231] good.

[232] Her name is Nice Goats on Twitter.

[233] Nice goats.

[234] His name is David Keith Rogers.

[235] He's, and her, she said her grandmother wrote him a letter every single day, called him every Sunday, despite the fact that he was a serial killer.

[236] Denial.

[237] Denial.

[238] That's some serious denial.

[239] She's like, that's not the man I married.

[240] No. Well, talk about living a double life.

[241] He's, he's the sheriff.

[242] And he's, that is a nightmare.

[243] Awful.

[244] That's, like, that's this true detective.

[245] Yeah.

[246] Season.

[247] All of them.

[248] Never.

[249] Because it'll never.

[250] Can I, can I say one other thing?

[251] Yes.

[252] That I love.

[253] Yes.

[254] I'm listening to another new podcast that I finished within a couple days as I do, called In the Dark.

[255] The Jacob Wedderling one.

[256] Oh, no, I haven't, I haven't heard it.

[257] Well, I didn't, I was like, Jacob Wederling.

[258] Everyone knows what happened with him.

[259] He's a kid who got kidnapped.

[260] you know in Minnesota and they in 80s whatever and so I was like I'll just listen to an episode it is fucking enthralling it is one of the best fucking investigative journalist dick podcasty things I've ever listened to it I got to listen to it's incredible and it's not about Jacob wetterling it's about everything that went wrong in it's like it is a fucking hard look at law enforcement wow how they mishandled the entire fucking case and how it fueled stranger danger and the sex offender registries and is that the right thing to do and like it's and then they just solve the case like the week before they were going to put the podcast out whoa so they like tie all this shit into it wow oh i've got to listen to that madeline baron is the host i love that it's all these fucking badass women who are hosting these incredible investigative journalism pieces so cool in the dark it's called in the dark in the dark in the dark uh fucking i could not stop listening to it oh i love that right i actually just thought of this too because i just watched of um if nobody if you're not watching vanity fair confidential which is a series um honest place what which part do you not know i'm just trying to think of where it is but it might be investigation discovery or something it doesn't matter you can just put it in but it's they have they basically go over stories that have been in vanity fair which is a magazine that's existed for like 70 plus years maybe longer does great art of great investigative journalism yeah yeah and the one that i watched yesterday was about this couple which was basically about satanic panic and that weird thing that happened in the 80s where all the sudden it was like at the mcmartin um preschool preschool case and then there was this other one that happened to these people in austin texas and they just got out of jail and they still haven't been exonerated are you fucking kidding they're just they were just released of like that it's basically what you were just talking about where back then when they knew nothing about how leading how how much you could screw up an interview with a four year old or a three year old how easy it is to get that child to say exactly what you want them to say totally and that's how all those things exploded that's why it happened all at the same time that's amazing that that shit that is what fucking happens in this podcast and it is incredible how it's so terrifying like i have to listen to to a positive book now because I'm so fucked up over it.

[261] Yeah.

[262] Oh, I got to listen to that.

[263] And Vanity Fair Confidential.

[264] What's cool is that they take those articles and they interview, like the main narrator interviewer guy is the person, is the person who wrote that article.

[265] Yes.

[266] I love that.

[267] And then other, um, then the police that were there and the other family members and stuff.

[268] They've been, the last couple that I've watched have been so good.

[269] It's just like, it's a really well done series.

[270] I haven't watched it in a while.

[271] I'm going to check it out.

[272] Yeah, it's good um cool um also did you see the thing someone tweeted at us or it was somewhere like i think it was on her facebook about the windshield wiper shirt yes trick yes that do you think that's true probably i mean it could have like its sources in some once yeah true thing but i like the idea that people um spread that around me too because i think it's that thing of just like eyes open eyes open and don't like so basically what it was is there is a picture I think it was either on Instagram or Twitter or whatever but it's like a girl there's a shirt wrapped around her windshield wiper and then when she gets out to take it off there's people there that are like to grab her because she's out of her car right they get you get in your car at night you're being very careful in this built in the structure and then oh shit there's something on my windshield I better get out and take it off yeah and then that's like that's when your guard is down yes so it's just the idea and that thing spread like wildfire yeah i saw that on a couple different places yeah i was like this sounds this sounds like you know and his hook was in the back of was in the car whatever the back door um but it is yeah it is a good kind of reminder to pay attention yes it only takes one thing like that and also you have to think um if you're like you should think of your car as like the safe zone so like once you're in there and you've locked that door you're good to go so if you can drive with a shirt on your windshield wiper get the fuck out of there and that's what the girl said she did is she fucking knew something was wrong she saw a car idling supposedly you know and then so she fucking drove away and when she was alone and safe she fucking got out and pulled the yeah she's like it didn't make sense that it was wrapped around my windshield right yeah it doesn't because it's not like oh it dropped from you know it blew onto my windshield or whatever it's if it's wrapped she was basically taking her context clues and going this is a red flag situation Betcha this fictitious character is a murderino But she is What else?

[273] I mean What do we Do we have anything to report back from?

[274] I would just say this Because we haven't recorded since our tour Right Last episode was our Where were we?

[275] Our Oakland show The last episode we put on this podcast was the Oakland show This podcast, this one right now was Live Oakland.

[276] After Live Oakland, we met a bunch of great people.

[277] And the first person we met was a girl who made us some amazing stuff.

[278] I don't have her card or anything.

[279] But did you see in that bag?

[280] And I'm not sure if you went through it.

[281] So I got a tote bag that said, my dogs are fiercely private.

[282] Oh, and she got me a bag that had a fucking adorable Siamese cat on it that I'm totally using all the time now.

[283] Yep.

[284] And also, I think handmade, I don't know if she bought them or she designed them herself, but I feel like she made them, the barb notebook.

[285] Did you get a barb notebook?

[286] Yes.

[287] Yes.

[288] I think that's her drawing.

[289] That is amazing.

[290] So we just want, we had a fun conversation with you.

[291] She was very excited.

[292] And we just wanted to say it was just as fun for us to meet you as, as it was for you to meet us.

[293] because she was, um, she was, she was very sweet and very excited.

[294] Everyone's been, we're so lucky.

[295] Yes, we get lots of nice presents and it's funny.

[296] And also in Oakland, most of my family was there.

[297] My cousin Stevie, who's basically like my older brother, um, who beat me up my whole childhood and then became a super cool friend and now is basically like my sister and my sister's family and his family like do everything together and it's really awesome because that's the way we all grew up together.

[298] It's like the next generation.

[299] I heard the rumor that he was crying during our show because he was so proud and like blown away.

[300] Like basically all of my family was like, oh, we had no idea that this is what you were doing.

[301] That's amazing.

[302] Yeah, so it was super fun.

[303] Well, Marty fucking Hartstark is going to be at our Beacon, our New York Beacon show this fucking weekend.

[304] And I have no idea how he's going to react.

[305] Please, New York, help us impress Marty Hartstark.

[306] He needs to understand that his.

[307] His daughter has done a good job.

[308] You'll know him by the fact that he's the only grown man alone there.

[309] That's not true.

[310] We're in Seattle.

[311] Remember the guy that made us the macarones?

[312] Oh, yeah.

[313] He, like, had taken, Stephen, he had taken a cooking class.

[314] He had made macarones that had, they were pink with red bloods batter on them, put them in a Tupperware and brought them to the show.

[315] Yeah, and we knew they weren't poisonous because a girl in line behind us, him had eaten them.

[316] She was like, they were great.

[317] And they're like, how do you feel?

[318] Are you feeling okay?

[319] She's like, I'm fine.

[320] But you're like our tester.

[321] I love macaroons.

[322] And I got Ted Bundy cookies.

[323] Oh, my God.

[324] Oh, shit.

[325] Wow.

[326] I just said the wrong word.

[327] Jesus.

[328] Did you see that?

[329] Elvis just came out of his little cat house.

[330] Okay.

[331] Because I said the word.

[332] The word.

[333] He knows.

[334] Holy shit.

[335] He's going to have to get one early.

[336] He is a monster.

[337] We've made a monster.

[338] Saude House Bakery in Seattle are the ones that made us.

[339] tweeted those.

[340] Yeah, they're on my favorite murder Instagram too.

[341] Unbelievable Ted Bundy.

[342] And I would just like to point out the fact that it turns into a thing where it looks like, oh, we love Ted Bundy.

[343] In no way, it's like, it's the story we're telling and it's, oh, I never thought that.

[344] I'm not saying to you.

[345] I'm just saying in general.

[346] When on the podcast, people are like, it sounds like we're cheering.

[347] It's not about Ted Bundy.

[348] It's the fascination of the story.

[349] Yeah, and the crime.

[350] And the fact that that exists and the icing and the fucking that was an amazing cookie it was like a brown sugar cookie it was it was really good beautiful art and the shape of Washington Washington probably because we're in Seattle it was in shape of Washington we are the best people we are at the Oregon can I talk about how I took a bite out of it to take a photo and like like it seemed obvious that it was a cookie and then I said uh look I took a bite out of crime And then I fucking laughed my ass off of my own fucking stupid joke.

[351] God, it gets lonely in that dressing room.

[352] Ooh, it's quiet.

[353] We don't have groupies.

[354] And that's the place where I put on a record, and it was some lame 80, not lame.

[355] There was some good songs on it, but that was an 80s compilation.

[356] And a stick song came on, and it was dead silent me and Georgia, like, looking down at our murders or whatever, like getting ready.

[357] And then she goes, oh, my God, what is this?

[358] she's not even a good singer and I'm still laughing about that very enjoyable I didn't know sticks um you look like it's your turn to go first is it I don't know you were you looked like you were ready and I was like oh she knows well then I'm interpreting from that you would like me to go first I don't care I don't want to fuck it up I bet Stephen knows well we fucked it up going live oh Stephen do you know no did you see him pick up his finger like he was trying to shush us He was thinking.

[359] No, I think he was thinking.

[360] You know, I was like, trying to remember.

[361] And I was just like, shish.

[362] And you brought the microphone up so perfectly, like, I'm about to tell you.

[363] Well, I also was like, does it count from the Oakland episode or do you count the other live episodes in terms of who goes first?

[364] Oh, no, then it's me because.

[365] I think Oakland.

[366] Oakland.

[367] So it is me. All right.

[368] Well, this is, now I'm afraid because I'm 99 % positive you haven't done this murder.

[369] but truly as I was printing it up and leaving my house, I was like, it's so familiar.

[370] And I know that I've done research on it before thinking I would do it before.

[371] Well, I've had to think about looking up murders before, like, have I done it before?

[372] Not just you.

[373] Okay.

[374] So, I think we're.

[375] So you won't be mad if this is a repeat.

[376] Only if you do it better than I did.

[377] Well, I'm pretty sure you didn't, but I know we've talked about it.

[378] Okay, I'm excited.

[379] And the reason that I would.

[380] wanted to do it is because I mentioned it the last.

[381] Excuse me?

[382] Just pick the biggest one.

[383] Sorry, like in your face.

[384] No problem.

[385] Okay.

[386] The last, uh, I think the last studio recording that we did when I talked about the Pampa sisters, the French maids that killed.

[387] Yes.

[388] This, this podcasting studio.

[389] Um, so it's another case of Falia do, which is the shared psychosis.

[390] And it's the story of Ursula and Sabina Erickson.

[391] We have not done it.

[392] We've talked about it.

[393] I'm fucking am excited about this.

[394] Okay.

[395] All right.

[396] What a huge goddamn relief.

[397] Because I was truly like, I was like, I'm printing it.

[398] I don't, this is what I've done.

[399] Like, I can't go back from here.

[400] What if that's like my trigger?

[401] And then I'm like, this is over?

[402] I can't believe you don't remember.

[403] I cried that episode.

[404] Yeah, it meant a lot to me too.

[405] Anyway, um.

[406] All right.

[407] Okay.

[408] So, Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[409] Absolutely.

[410] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[411] Exactly.

[412] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[413] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[414] That's right.

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[427] Goodbye.

[428] Hey, this is exciting.

[429] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[430] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[431] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone, who killed Saz?

[432] And were they really after Charles?

[433] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[434] This season, murder hits close to home.

[435] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[436] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[437] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[438] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[439] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[440] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[441] Goodbye.

[442] In that, sorry, if you didn't hear that episode, so a folio -do is, in French, it translates as the madness of two, and it's a form of shared psychosis between two people who are extremely close.

[443] The Papas sisters were an older and younger sister.

[444] It is rumored that they were having a sexual relationship, but they did work.

[445] for a rumored to be very strict mistress who they killed so violently that it beats most of the crimes we talk about modern day it really it doesn't it doesn't fit with what you know what I mean I'm not matching the punishment and all this yes it's it's such extreme overkill that it's not so bizarre totally so this is a little bit different but this I feel like is the much more famous version of this shared psychosis and it is Ursula and Sabina Erickson.

[446] So in May of 2008, two Swedish sisters who live in Ireland, who are in their late 30s named Ursula and Sabina Erickson, twin sisters, that should be in there, they are twin sisters, and they live in County Cork and they've traveled to they're traveling to London but they've taken they're in Liverpool when this all goes down taking the bus into London or they're right outside Liverpool I guess so when they first arrive in Liverpool or wherever they are nearby it the first thing they do is they walk into the St. Anne Street police station and quote unquote report concerns about Sabine's children so from the get -go of their like trip to london there's shit going on um they immediately go and start talking to the police nothing comes of it they then they get on this bus the national express coach um into london um after a little while on the bus they tell the driver they don't feel well he pulls over to the roadside services um and they get off the bus when they try to get back on the bus.

[447] They are clutching these bags that they have with them in a way that makes the driver suspicious.

[448] So he says, we need to look in your bags before you get back on the bus.

[449] And they're like, no fucking way.

[450] And they're so weird about not letting anybody look into their bags that the bus driver kicks them off the bus and leaves them there.

[451] Fucking hero.

[452] Oh, wait, that's kind of shitty.

[453] Don't leave women on the side of the road.

[454] Well, but, but I mean, like, so the second I hear this, I'm like, what is in those bags?

[455] Totally.

[456] I need to know what's in those bags immediately.

[457] Oh, yes, I'm imagining lots.

[458] Right.

[459] So, so the gas station manager, where they have stopped at these, what they call services in England, is informed by this bus driver.

[460] These two are acting weird and shady, and so I'm not letting him back on the bus.

[461] So that gas station manager calls the police.

[462] they come and talk to Ursula and Sabine decide they're harmless and leave.

[463] So now Ursula and Sabine are stranded by the M6, which is a freeway in England, and not the TV show MI6, which I thought I was thinking of the whole time I first started researching this.

[464] Have you ever watched MI6?

[465] No. With Matthew McFadden, who is Mr. Darcy, Richard Archer.

[466] I'm in time.

[467] Anyway, none of it.

[468] I'm sorry.

[469] Good stuff.

[470] Good stuff.

[471] Good British procedural.

[472] Good talk.

[473] But there's an M6 and then there's an MI6.

[474] Okay.

[475] They're not the same thing, Karen.

[476] Okay.

[477] So they're stranded.

[478] And the next thing that they know is that there's CCTV footage of them walking down the central part of the freeway.

[479] like that so they have run across the center median yes they've run across the freeway so so you can see here's the insane part of all this um there is video footage of this entire incident i don't like i've seen it and it's like whenever there's CCTV footage i'm like don't want to watch this something awful's going to happen yes that's bad too but there was also basically a british version of cops, which was called motorway.

[480] No. Motorway cops.

[481] Which was a reality show that they were filming when this happened.

[482] So the entire thing is caught on an ENG crew footage.

[483] Yes, like a TV show.

[484] That's why there's so much, like, you can see all of it.

[485] That seems illegal.

[486] It's super crazy.

[487] Yeah, because did they sign waivers?

[488] Totally.

[489] There must be because they broke the law.

[490] They must.

[491] have to or something sure so basically here's what or maybe they have different rules right of production all right here's what happened um they're they're in the central median and they run to cross it again don't cross the fucking freeway ursula gets across but sabina gets hit by a car so they call the highway agency traffic officers which i imagine is like the highway patrol sure But I don't know, and I didn't look it up.

[492] I wrote this horrible thing.

[493] So when highway agency traffic officers, what I can only imagine are the British Highway Patrol, so British chips, which in America are crisps.

[494] Oh, my God.

[495] But in England are French fries.

[496] That's, I love where you went with that.

[497] That was unexpected.

[498] So dumb.

[499] So, like, fish and chips.

[500] What if, like, fish and, what if there was, like, a cop show?

[501] that the cops were British and there's a guy named like Andy Fish and so it's like fish and chips can someone please make a fucking we'll be the chips so Karen and I is a British detective that's come to Los Angeles and then he needs the help of two girl podcasters chips where are the chips though oh because we're British cops we are well because we have oh no no we're chips we're highway patrol yeah we're highway patrol right um all right oh what fish could be the band fish fish fish fish the band fish and chips leads cops like they're undercover narcs yes and they go to their shows they narc on people at their own shows they're pot cops yeah guys here's the thing oh my god so that basically the british highway patrol shows up with this british reality show called motorway cops fuck you they're already recording it that's so shitty no no no they didn't know what the scenario was they showed up on the scene like well this is a day in the life of these cops okay yeah it's like that okay so uh so as they so the two twin women are standing on the side of the road talking to these cops and the the guys that with their first on the scene first are explaining to the british police who showed up with the camera crew they're like okay so here's what happened and And I guess they ran across the freeway.

[502] We don't really know what they're doing.

[503] One of them got hit, but she's okay.

[504] And blah, blah, blah.

[505] And they're explaining everything.

[506] And the two women are standing there while the cops are talking to each other.

[507] And then, as the camera's rolling, Ursula bolts out into the freeway and immediately gets hit by a truck.

[508] And it is on, the truck is going 50.

[509] 56 miles an hour.

[510] It's on camera.

[511] You can, it doesn't, there's somebody that's kind of blocking it.

[512] So you don't see like the real awful part.

[513] But, um, and to make it clear, she's not running trying to cross.

[514] She's running to get hit by her car.

[515] Well, there's no, um, it's just like that fucked up part in Bowfinger, where Eddie Murphy has to run across the freeway for the like special effect.

[516] Do you remember that?

[517] Mm -hmm.

[518] Mm -hmm.

[519] Uh -huh.

[520] here's the thing it's not like frog or words like one coming every couple of seconds it's like running into onto the five right now like there's there's no pause in the traffic no right so she ran out onto a busy freeway intentionally and she does it and everybody's like it's really upsetting because it's all the cops going like whoa oh my god or whatever and they're immediately on to their things calling for an ambulance doing this and while they're doing that and one of them runs out to stop traffic whatever while they do that then sabine runs out into the freeway fuck dude because they're so it it's the craziest thing to see because nobody of course once the one goes they're not there nobody goes oh make sure the other one doesn't go they all go holy shit call call an ambulance you would never yeah who would do that so ursula's legs so sabine runs out freeway and immediately gets hit by a Volkswagen polo, which we don't have.

[521] Those poor people driving those fucking cars.

[522] Yes.

[523] You've ruined their life.

[524] Oh, the lorry driver, the truck driver that hit Ursula is on this.

[525] You can see the video footage.

[526] And it's the saddest thing because he just keeps going, she just thrown out in front of us.

[527] That's not the accent.

[528] But it's something like that where he says us instead of me. It's rough.

[529] And he's just like kind of staring off like in total shock.

[530] Oh my God.

[531] But here's the thing.

[532] So Ursula's legs, she has compound fractures in her legs.

[533] The cop, I saw special on it, and it's called like madness on the motorway or something like that.

[534] But it's really good, but it's not as good as fish and chips.

[535] It is no fish and chips.

[536] Never.

[537] She is down, and this is so upsetting because her, she's bones are sticking out of her legs.

[538] No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah.

[539] Yeah, you're not going to get hit by a. truck on the freeway and have it not be really gross and upsetting.

[540] But meanwhile, she's down, right?

[541] So the bottom half of her body is not moving and it's fucked up badly.

[542] But the top half of her, they go and they put one of those tinfoil marathon blankets on her and they're like trying to talk to her.

[543] It's basically like the ambulance is going to be here.

[544] You're okay.

[545] And she starts going, I know who you are.

[546] I know who you are.

[547] And they're like, just take it easy.

[548] It's okay.

[549] um she says uh i recognize you i know you're not real oh my god and the and the police are just saying it's okay stayed out she's tries she's trying to get up so it looks like a really hideous part of like walking dead where like the zombie's been like attacked from the back but they're still dragging themselves like she's trying to push herself up but her legs aren't going to move and she's trying to like fight him she's spitting at him how scary yeah she's freaking out.

[550] So her sister is, so that's Ursula.

[551] Sabina is also on the ground and she looks like she's out, out.

[552] And there's a female cop next to her.

[553] And I think the second person is a woman who was maybe a passerby in a car.

[554] I'm not sure.

[555] But they're both sitting there and they're like, she's got one of those tinfoil blankets on her.

[556] And she, and Sabine is just eyes closed out.

[557] and then she comes to and she like almost like immediately gets up and they're like no no no don't move don't move and she's clearly like dazed but she starts saying they're going to steal your organs she's yelling that over to ursula holy balls they're going to steal your organs and and she and then she they're like no no no stay down and they're trying to hold her down and she starts yelling help call the police and they're like we are the police it's okay and they're and so then they're thinking they're on drugs they must be on some kind of drug because now Sabine is up on her feet and she's trying to like she's like trying to get away and they're like you need to calm down it's okay she fucking jumps the rail and runs into the other on the other side of the freeway you fucking kidding me swear to God they thank God that wasn't as busy on that side and I think they may have stopped traffic like traffic was totally stopped on this side where Ursula was laying.

[558] So it's probably a lucky loose slowing down and shit.

[559] Probably and like maybe less traffic.

[560] I'm not sure.

[561] But anyway, she runs across this cop has to run after her.

[562] And he's like, stop, what are you doing?

[563] Don't, you know, you're hurt, you're hurt.

[564] And she's like, and she basically turns, turns on him like she's going to fist fight him.

[565] Oh my God.

[566] And she's like, and she's screaming, help call the police.

[567] And they're like, we are the police.

[568] Like, it's crazy.

[569] So they, so basically it eventually takes six policemen to subdue.

[570] Sabine.

[571] Oh, my God.

[572] Six policemen to finally get her down and sedate, like they shoot her up.

[573] They meanwhile airlift Ursula out to the hospital.

[574] She was spitting at them.

[575] The whole, like they were fighting the entire time.

[576] And the cops that subdued Sabine said that she had superhuman strength that both of them did.

[577] So they're thinking they're on probably on PCP or something like, you know, the drugs associated with.

[578] That were taught as a kid or like.

[579] Yeah.

[580] You could, like, lift a car or do whatever you want.

[581] Totally.

[582] Which I just, the idea of whatever world that they were in where they thought what was, what was happening?

[583] Because they still don't know to this day the logic behind.

[584] And there's no explanation.

[585] Wait, I was hoping you'd get to the explanation.

[586] Well, I'm just going to spoiler alert for you right now.

[587] They've never explained it in court when she finally went to court.

[588] all she would say is no comment they have never explained any of it and there was no drugs in their system so okay she gets they finally they finally the six people get her down sedate her she goes to the hospital and then goes directly into police custody in a place called stoke on Trent so on May 19th, 2008, she is released from court.

[589] Sabina is released from court without a full psychiatric evaluation.

[590] Oh, great.

[591] Having pleaded guilty to trespass on the motorway and hitting a police officer, which she decked that female police officer, she punched her right in the face to get away from her.

[592] That's before she ran across for the third fucking time.

[593] So the court sentenced her to one day in custody, which she'd already served.

[594] Um, So she leaves, and she begins to wander the streets of Stoke -on -Kent, trying to find her sister in the hospital and carrying her possessions in a clear plastic bag.

[595] So she's just kind of now out on the street.

[596] Let her go?

[597] Yeah.

[598] So she's, that night, two local guys who are walking a dog, see her, and if she comes up and is very friendly, she's petting the dog, they're all talking.

[599] one of the men is a 54 -year -old man named Glenn Hollingshead who is a self -employed welder he was had been a paramedic and he was a former RAF worker um the other man was his friend peter Malloy and um so they all start talking and even though she's friendly sabina's acting super weird so she does stuff like offers um she's asking them if they know any the directions for any good bed and breakfasts or any place to stay.

[600] She offers them cigarettes and then takes them back while they're smoking them.

[601] So this guy, Glenn Hollings head, can tell there's something wrong with her.

[602] This is the part that I'm like, did we do this one?

[603] Did we?

[604] Stephen?

[605] Well, this is the murder part.

[606] Yeah.

[607] So we must have talked about this before.

[608] I'm sure we've talked about it, but I don't know.

[609] I don't think we have.

[610] I'd be a bummer.

[611] Well, who cares?

[612] You're doing a great job.

[613] Well, thanks.

[614] Thank you.

[615] I appreciate it.

[616] So they go back to his house because he's like something's wrong with this lady.

[617] And she's just wandering out on the street.

[618] So they go back to his house and she's basically saying I need to find my sister.

[619] She's in a hospital.

[620] So they start, I think they said she, they hang out that night.

[621] She was carrying multiple mobile phones and a laptop.

[622] She was constantly looking out the window.

[623] She was super paranoid, and Malloy assumed, the friend, assumes that she's run away from an abusive partner, the way she's acting.

[624] So they're like, you can stay here tonight.

[625] And she's probably all bandaged up and shit.

[626] Right.

[627] After being released.

[628] I don't, but I don't think when she was up and like basically trying to duke it out with this cop, she looked fine.

[629] Fine.

[630] Having been hit by a car two times, she seemed fine and didn't break any bones apparently because she wasn't like held at the.

[631] the hospital so okay so anyway um when the friend leaves he leaves at uh shortly before midnight and sabina stays at the house so the next morning hauling's head is calling local hospitals um to find ursula to see where she is and uh at let's see this would be 740 in the morning he goes outside to ask his neighbor for tea bags and the neighbor says, let me finish up what I'm doing, and I'll come and bring him over.

[632] And so Glenn walks back into the house.

[633] Oh, because he's washing his, the neighbor's washing his car.

[634] So he's like, when I finish, I'll bring him over.

[635] And then a minute after going inside, he staggers back outside the house and saying to the neighbor, she stabbed me and then collapses on the ground.

[636] When he'd gone back into the house, Sabina had stabbed him five times with a kitchen knife.

[637] And he died from his injuries there.

[638] and she ran and the neighbor calls 999, which is 9 -1 -1 in England.

[639] Not that I had to tell you that.

[640] Does this seem familiar?

[641] No, I don't think we've done this one.

[642] Okay.

[643] Because it seems familiar to me, but I know I've watched a full movie about this on YouTube.

[644] You can, and we all can if you want to after this.

[645] So essentially, she goes out of this house with a hammer in her hand and is hitting herself in the head with the hammer.

[646] No. Uh -huh.

[647] So every once in a while, periodically it says, from Wikipedia.

[648] So a passing motorist sees this, gets out of the car and tries to grab the hammer away from her.

[649] And while they're wrestling, Sabina pulls a roof tile out of her.

[650] The fuck?

[651] Out of her pocket.

[652] What the fuck?

[653] you know when you're wandering around town like this looks and you just put some stuff in your she pulls it out and hits him in the head with it he's momentarily stunned and she runs away oh my god but at this point the paramedics from the 999 call have shown up and they see her and they chase her and they end up pursuing her to heron cross where she jumps off a 40 -foot bridge onto the A -50, which is another freeway or highway.

[654] I can't stay away from...

[655] I mean, they love it.

[656] They love freeways and highways.

[657] So in that fall, she does break bones.

[658] So she is not superhuman.

[659] And she's taken to the hospital.

[660] And then when she's recovering there, she is put under arrest.

[661] And she's later discharged and then charged with murder.

[662] and so she goes to trial.

[663] They hold her, and this is the part that drives me crazy.

[664] She was supposed to go, she's charged with murder in September of 2008, the day she's discharged from the hospital, and the trial is scheduled for February of 2009, but they can't find her medical records from Sweden.

[665] So the trial is then pushed to, September of 2009.

[666] So basically these, both of these sisters are kind of these mysteries.

[667] They can't find anything about them.

[668] They can't figure out what the deal is on them, which I think is like so fascinating.

[669] Obviously, there's, there's mental illness taking place anyway.

[670] There's something really serious going on.

[671] Break from reality somehow.

[672] Yeah.

[673] So she pleads guilty to manslaughter with diminished responsibility, but at no point during her interrogation or during the trial does she explain her actions she only says no comment to extensive police questioning um both the prosecution and defense say that she was insane at the time of the killing um but sane during her trial and the defense counsel um claims that uh sabine is the secondary sufferer of fally adieu and that ursula was the like the primary um like the out basically the alpha in the situation right which is easy to say yeah now that she's off with her crushed legs and it doesn't diminish your responsibility for what you've done well because ursula had nothing to do with that stabbing right she wasn't there for it so it's kind of like it's trying to say well she's the one that's just going along with everything it's like yeah but ursula wasn't there to tell her to do that and obviously way more is going on if that was her if that was her behavior when she was by herself.

[674] Oh my God, I want to know.

[675] I want to know all of it.

[676] Anyway, she's sentenced to five years in prison.

[677] Five years.

[678] She'd already spent 439 days in custody.

[679] So she ended up being eligible for a release in 2011.

[680] So the judge says that she has a low level of culpability for her actions.

[681] But basically that the killing was based on mental illness.

[682] She thought she was in danger.

[683] They thought they were in danger the whole time.

[684] They didn't know where they were when they were on the freeway when all that stuff was taking place.

[685] They clearly had a break from reality.

[686] It had some kind of a psychotic break because they were yelling at the police.

[687] Yeah.

[688] Call the police.

[689] And the police were repeatedly yelling back to them.

[690] We are the police.

[691] And that just wasn't, didn't seem to be breaking through in any way.

[692] Yeah.

[693] um and so i don't think there's no explanation but it didn't seem like that changed in any significant way by the time glen hollings had brought her into his apartment i mean she was like that's that kind of thing though of like what are you doing like what are you doing this is it like this is not a healthy person yeah or an okay person i mean he was he was trying to be a good guy is what he was doing but but there's a lot of danger in that of like just taking in a mentally ill person from the street is a dangerous thing even if it's a woman yeah um what was i going to ask so did they get out are she out uh yes she was paroled and we don't know it hold on yeah yeah she got out where is she now i don't know i'm scared i'm scared now uh the and the brother of um Glenn Hauling's head, the guy that got stabbed, Hollen's head, basically said that he doesn't blame her because he clearly understands that she was her mental state.

[694] She probably thought that was something she needed to do.

[695] But he blames that system that just released her into the street with a plastic bag going like, well, good luck.

[696] You clearly ran across the freeway three times, but now you're just on your own.

[697] Yeah, without the person you've been with.

[698] So it's like, we don't know if you, oh, my God.

[699] But so here's the thing that I want to know.

[700] And like, let's just put aside so, because there weren't drugs in their system.

[701] So all those, all their theories of like they're on PCP or this, none of that proved out.

[702] And they, I think the reason it's vague here and hopefully there's other people that know the details and we would love to hear that.

[703] I would love to hear them.

[704] But like, um, the idea that they're not, they're not.

[705] on drugs, clearly there's some kind of a psychosis taking place, but not so much that they then get put into any kind of, like that Sabine gets put into any kind of a mental hospital.

[706] They should have been.

[707] What is it 5150 when they can hold you for being crazy for something?

[708] And like what more do you need than people running across the freeway three times?

[709] Yeah, you're not hurt.

[710] Get out of here.

[711] Right.

[712] It doesn't, it's very strange.

[713] It doesn't make a ton of sense.

[714] But for me, I want to know.

[715] So one of the things they said they were carrying were a whole bunch of cell phones in those bags that they didn't want people to see.

[716] But the idea that they thought people wanted to take their organs, like they thought they were being chased.

[717] They thought they needed a bunch of cell phones.

[718] They couldn't show them to people.

[719] They like, that idea, it's like a, you know, paranoid delusion or whatever, but like, what did they, what was the world that they were in?

[720] I would just be so fascinated to know the details of what they thought was happening.

[721] It's one of those, like, mysteries of, like, you know, like, Tam and shoot that guy, you know, that I, it's like, well, we ever know, I really want to know, maybe the answer someday will be, like, the, the girls, the, the girls in Austin who got killed at the, the yogurt shop.

[722] The yogurt shop murders, like, I want to know so bad.

[723] Yeah.

[724] We might never know.

[725] Yeah.

[726] It's just so frustrating.

[727] I feel like, I, I feel like I should have done, like, more back -end research.

[728] But for me, the, the fascinating part is that all, I mean, it's, the stabbing is an insane, like, ending.

[729] Totally.

[730] And so terrible and so incredibly tragic.

[731] But, like, what was happening on that freeway is so crazy.

[732] Yeah.

[733] And that, to me, I got all caught up in that.

[734] And the video, I mean, watching that video was just like, I did.

[735] Because it's like, it was the whole story.

[736] Yeah, totally.

[737] I understand.

[738] It's crazy, though.

[739] it doesn't it like your mind can't comprehend it because it's a person running into traffic no i can't yeah it's crazy wow really really crazy i want to know also if ursula being separate from if because they were separated if anybody like snapped out of it and then was like oh this is we were we were i mean but you can't blame it on that can't like it's not real the fucking like the connection that that they had that made them do this you know what i mean like they're just both crazy right but it's real i'm sorry they're both mentally ill yes but separately they're mentally ill it's not like one is causing the other one right although that's kind of like the what they say happens yes because the other um the gibbon sisters who were those who were those twins who lived in wales and they grew up they were like some of the only black people in wales so they grew up and they were terribly um bullied and abused so they didn't talk to anybody but each other and they had a secret language.

[740] So this is basically, it's the same thing.

[741] They had a thing where when they were in jail, because they started lighting fires.

[742] And so they went to jail, they went to a mental hospital because they didn't talk to anybody and they only talked to each other.

[743] But they would do a thing where they would find one standing frozen in a certain pose in her cell and they would go to the other cell on the other side of the jail and she would be standing in the exact same pose.

[744] those oh my fucking god oh my god so there is something to like the mental connection of twins i know there's something there because like how did that happen yeah unless it was like oh every day we do this thing right this time maybe i don't know or is that you know someone um exaggerating at the mental hospital told someone that and that got a little bigger and bigger and bigger like it's its own creepy pasta yeah well because but every reporter there was a reporter that went and spent time with them who said they were just incredibly eerie you know it's like two people that don't feel the need to talk who just sit there that also are like you know twins and one of them finally said to that reporter the only way I'm getting out of here is if one of us dies and then one did die of an expanded heart or something like kind of for no reason like it a way where it's just one died and then the other got out and she lived a normal life right or at least she's got out and he's living her life outside of mental hospital if you could be a twin would you be a twin oh i just want to be when i was a kid you what i wanted to be when i was a kid i mean i think it would be fun it would i bet it would be hard to like look at yourself all the time part of me was just like i kind of want to know what i look like objectively you know what i mean?

[745] And do you ever like look at photos and be like, okay, if I saw that girl, what would I think?

[746] I don't know.

[747] I mean, the funny thing to me is that I can take such insanely bad pictures and I can take really good pictures.

[748] And then it's like, well, what is the, I guess it's just a happy medium and that's how it is with everybody.

[749] So where the, yeah.

[750] Oh, again, I get, yeah.

[751] Everything.

[752] What if you and I start fucking, what is it called?

[753] Morphing into each other?

[754] Folly a doing?

[755] Let's do that on the road.

[756] Okay.

[757] That'd be kind of fun.

[758] It would be fun.

[759] It'd be fun to just, oh, run and just get your.

[760] Yeah.

[761] Like, you make my decisions for me, please.

[762] I'm done.

[763] Making decisions.

[764] Yeah.

[765] My decision is to pull someone's eyes out.

[766] Sorry.

[767] Sorry, my decision is to run into the free way.

[768] All right.

[769] I love what I think of a, like, when I'm like, what murder should I do?

[770] And then I'm like, oh, yeah, I've fucking been fascinated by this one for years.

[771] I'm going to do it.

[772] You know, and it's like not one you just randomly find.

[773] Yeah.

[774] So Mel Ignato is a 50 -year -old man. He's a divorced father of three grown kids.

[775] And Brenda Sue Schaefer is 36.

[776] She's a medical assistant.

[777] And they had been in a relationship for two years and engaged.

[778] And then in 1988, Schaefer decides to break it off.

[779] off.

[780] And she tells a friend that Mel was sexually abusive and by all accounts, everyone says he's controlling and he's a sadistic motherfucker.

[781] That's what I wrote.

[782] So Brenda goes missing after deciding to break it off with Mel.

[783] And her car is found on the highway real close to her home, close enough that it had broken down, she could have walked over, walked home.

[784] It's been broken into the radio stolen and family.

[785] and police, though, quickly suspect Mel in the disappearance.

[786] But they aren't able to locate any witnesses or physical evidence linking him, and they can't find Brenda, her body.

[787] So they interview him to clear his name, so he can clear his name by testifying before a grand jury.

[788] And randomly he mentions the name of his ex -girlfriend of 10 years, Marianne Shore, which randomly brings her.

[789] to the investigation for the first time they hadn't even known it like she wasn't on their radar at all so the police interview marianne and eventually she confesses to helping plan the murder of brenda and of course out of that she gets a plea bargain that she'll only get charged with tampering with evidence so marianne tells police that mel had convinced her to help him plan and carry out Brenda's murder.

[790] They had spent several weeks making extensive preparations for Brenda's murder, including, quote, scream testing Marianne's house and digging a grave in the woods behind her house.

[791] Mel even keeps a checklist of the things he was going to do to Brenda on the night he killed her.

[792] And these photos of her, you know, I watched a couple episodes of all these shows and he looks like you know he's 50 years old he looks like a dad he looks like a normal dude normal 80s dad she's 36 and she's this pretty you know sweet looking girl a fucking sweet honesty ad you know and it's his girlfriend they're engaged and they were together for two years she had been divorced and he's kind of like showering her with gifts and and it just gets weirder and weirder though.

[793] And her family says in the beginning, like, we just didn't understand why she was with him at all and didn't trust him from the beginning.

[794] But I think, you know, he was a sociopath, so he was fucking charming at first.

[795] Yeah.

[796] He made her feel special.

[797] Right.

[798] So on September 23rd, 1988, Marianne tells the police that Mel lures Brenda to the house under the guise of her returning some jewelry that had belonged to Mel that I think he must have bought her.

[799] And when Brenda gets in the house, Mel pulls a gun and locks the door.

[800] And Marianne is there this whole time.

[801] He forces her to strip, then blindfolds, gags, and binds her.

[802] And he uses the list of all the things he was going to do to her and proceeds to go down the list doing each of them.

[803] He ties her to a coffee table and he rapes, sodomizes and beats her all the while having Marianne take photos of what's going on.

[804] What the fuck?

[805] What in the fuck?

[806] This is someone you were with for two years.

[807] You have grown children.

[808] Like, who the fuck?

[809] Yeah.

[810] Let's see.

[811] Marianne says she never joined in.

[812] She just took photos.

[813] Oh, oh.

[814] Oh, okay, Marianne.

[815] Oh, yeah.

[816] Everything's fine then.

[817] Okay.

[818] You just took the photos of a vicious attack.

[819] he then that's even grosser i know even grosser yeah how could you see that you know like you're standing by taking photos get out lady i can't even watch a fucking bar fight like i love a bar fight do you i love it i love it what about it um i just like it's a very it's like watching attention it's from going to college in sacramento they happened all the time basically bars would clear out and then people would just stand around watching people fight until the cops came and then girls would like cry and like you know drunk girls crying you'd be like if you just be quiet it'll be over faster and then we'll all go home it's my favorite it's just like male it's it's you know 80s male expression macho they're just like I'm not a football player and I'm not a frat boy I don't know what to do I'm I don't know I'm all pent up with my fucking testosterone and anger me and my feeling i have all these feelings and i'm not allowed to have them and i listen to a lot of boston so here i'm going to punch you right in the face um i saw a couple of vicious fights before so like i feel like i have this aversion to them because they were too awful yeah i don't like i can't i can't look i love it that's amazing i love that i love that anyways back to the horror okay um da da da she's taking photos says she never joins in he then takes, Mel then takes Brenda back to the back bedroom and kills her by putting a rag soaked in chloroform over her mouth until she dies.

[820] Poor fucking baby.

[821] And then Marianne helps Mel cover up the murder by including burying Brenda in a hole they dug behind the house.

[822] So they bury her.

[823] Marianne.

[824] So after her admission, 14 months after Brenda's disappearance, Marianne leads the investigators to the grave site.

[825] They find, Brenda's badly decomposed body buried there.

[826] Of course, there's no DNA evidence since the body had been decomposed, but that's in 1988.

[827] You know what I mean?

[828] Like, I feel like now they could have 14 months isn't that long to be buried, right?

[829] Oh, I feel like these days they could get it in so many ways.

[830] Totally.

[831] Yeah.

[832] But back then it was like, yeah, yeah, a totally different story.

[833] Yes.

[834] So the investigators convinced Marianne to wear a wire to talk to Mel, and she tells them the FBI is hounding her.

[835] She's afraid the property behind her house is going to be sold and developed.

[836] And he's on the tape reading her for letting the FBI, quote, rattle her and told her that he didn't care if they dug up the whole property because, quote, that place we dug is not shallow.

[837] So based on this recording, as well as a little physical evidence from his home, prosecutors charge Mel Ignato with the murder in 1991.

[838] And then, okay, let's see.

[839] So during one of the recorded conversations, when Mel says, that place where Doug is not shallow, he says, besides that one area right by where that site is, does not have any trees by it, the defense attorney convinced the jury that Mel said, safe and not sight.

[840] and so it led the jurors to conclude that the discussion involved burying a safe, not a body.

[841] So instead of sight, they convinced the jury that it was safe.

[842] Like they fucking buried a safe.

[843] But didn't Marianne already tell them everything they needed to know?

[844] Well, so.

[845] So Marianne testifies, she's a star witness, but she dresses like skimpy, laughs the whole time during her testimony and they argue that the defense argues that marianne killed brenda not mel and so him saying that thing about a safe doesn't implicate him in the murder whoa yeah so and she had been convicted of fraud before and so her credibility is totally um under undermined undermined undermined in the eyes under mound that was a joke i knew wasn't that Stephen don't write that down Steve and I see you writing that down.

[846] Undermounds.

[847] Under mound.

[848] That's my new word.

[849] Oh, I wrote her, all of which undermines her credibility in the eyes of the stupid idiot jury.

[850] Then I said, the stupid idiot jury found malignato not guilty on all seven counts.

[851] Whoa.

[852] Yep.

[853] Then the judge, Martin Johnstone, he's so embarrassed by the verdict that he writes a letter of apology to the Schaefer family, saying, if it was just me and not a jury, I would have fucking put this guy away forever, which is like pretty amazing.

[854] Yeah.

[855] And then an interesting random fact.

[856] So it was, this was take took place like December 21st or so.

[857] And it turns out that when a trial, the closer a trial takes place to Christmas, juries are more likely to acquit.

[858] That makes sense.

[859] It's not fucked up.

[860] Yeah.

[861] Is it because they want to get the fuck out of trial or is it because they have like, they have feelings of, you know, when you get all fuzzy and cozy during the, holidays and you're like love and family and stuff yeah i bet it's like i bet it's a bit of both depending on the personality but it's like normally where you wouldn't have either at play yeah you have now both at play right so whether it's the person that's like but i just watch this hallmark movie about giving people second chance yeah fuck and like in the fucking courtroom there's like a christmas tree in the corner and they're like people are looking over there like I've got to go shopping now.

[862] They put a fucking Santa hat on Mel.

[863] No, he's sitting at the...

[864] No, I'm just saying that's what they should do.

[865] They bake cookies, so it just smells nice.

[866] Immediate mistrial.

[867] They just, no, they just spray air freshener.

[868] They smells like baked cookies.

[869] Spray cinnamon glade.

[870] Don't you love it?

[871] Okay, innocent.

[872] Mm -mm -mm -mm.

[873] Okay, so six months later, okay, then, so he's out, this motherfucker.

[874] Six months later, he sells his house.

[875] because he needs funds to pay for his legal bills.

[876] And the house is like, he's not a fucking trashy person.

[877] He has a beautiful house.

[878] He looks like a normal guy.

[879] I argue he is a trashy person.

[880] I mean, clearly.

[881] You know what I mean?

[882] Like, you wouldn't know.

[883] Like, when I was like researching it, I was like, oh, I thought of like making a murderer dude.

[884] Yes.

[885] Right.

[886] Who's just like lives on a, you know, farm or whatever.

[887] No, it's like a lovely tutor house and he is your fucking dad's best friend in the 80s, you know?

[888] So he sells the house He needs to pay for the legal bills So a carpenter is laying A carpet layer is working on the house He pulls up a length of carpet in the hallway Underneath that carpet is a floor vent Inside that floor vent is a plastic bag taped to the inside of the vent Inside the bag Is the jewelry that Brenda had brought over The Night of as well as three roles of undeveloped film Oh shit!

[889] and he grabbed that bag and ran.

[890] Nope, because he didn't own the fucking house anymore.

[891] Someone else owned it.

[892] Oh, you mean the guy, the carpet layer?

[893] The carpenter.

[894] Yes, he did.

[895] Okay, good.

[896] And very silently, he, he, um, nailed in some wood and covered that event.

[897] He opened all of it and he exposed the, the film.

[898] Anyways, that's the end of my story.

[899] The end, bye.

[900] Yeah, so the fucking cops get those three rolls of film developed.

[901] it's like 180 photos of start to finish Marianne's I mean Brenda's torture and murder taken by Marianne so everything she said was done by Mel.

[902] Well Mel's face isn't in the film but his body hair patterns and moles match it perfectly.

[903] Oh good.

[904] And match her story.

[905] Like she wasn't fucking lying.

[906] She's a fucking monster.

[907] Yes.

[908] But she wasn't lying.

[909] Hey, guess what, Karen?

[910] Ever heard of Double Jeopardy?

[911] I sure have.

[912] Oh, well, here it is to ruin your night.

[913] Yep.

[914] Because of Devil Jeopardy, Mel can't be retried for Brenda's murder.

[915] He's brought to child for trial for perjury based on his grand jury testimony because it's like all they could fucking do.

[916] He knew he couldn't be retried for murder.

[917] So he confesses in court at his perjury trial to the whole fucking thing.

[918] He turns to Schaefer to Brenda's brothers and says, but she died peacefully.

[919] Yeah.

[920] He gets an eight -year sentence for perjury, serves five of those years, credit for two years that he was served, and another year off for good behavior.

[921] You get, can we look at your whole life of behavior and know that you murdered someone, and then so that doesn't, so you fucking, not getting in a fight at the mess hall doesn't take, get time off your fucking sentence?

[922] You'd think.

[923] One would think.

[924] Excuse me. so um sentenced okay good behavior he's out he gets another thing another charge another year another thing for perjury a different thing so they're still going after him in whatever way they can yeah like they do on law and order we'll get him for right right so he gets he's another another trial for perjury nine years for that released from prison for the second time in December 2006 He goes home to Louisville, living at home four miles from the house where he murdered Brenda.

[925] Wow.

[926] Two years later, September 1st, 2008, Mel allegedly falls off a ladder, cuts his arm on a glass coffee table.

[927] Again, the coffee table, right?

[928] Slowly leads to death.

[929] Yay.

[930] What?

[931] He's 70 years old.

[932] Okay.

[933] I'm sorry.

[934] So it's a ladder inside the house.

[935] I don't know if it's a ladder, but, you know, he's like, hey.

[936] hanging a painting on a standing on thing.

[937] Doing something.

[938] Got it.

[939] Falls off of it.

[940] And some places say he breaks through the glass and cuts his arms.

[941] Some say his head.

[942] But either way, like, there was like blood marks where he like climbed around the house and like couldn't.

[943] And so people are like, did he really fall?

[944] Or did someone like basically go smash his head into a glass coffee table?

[945] Into a coffee table, which is the same thing he fucking tied Brenda to when she came over.

[946] Somewhere I said that's the same coffee table, but I don't think.

[947] think that's true.

[948] And that would be.

[949] Yeah.

[950] Well, that would mean he would put that coffee table into storage.

[951] But it wasn't his coffee table to begin with.

[952] It was Marianne's house.

[953] Although, I think he owned it.

[954] I don't know, something.

[955] So he's fucked, this piece of shit is dead at 70 in 2008.

[956] Marianne served three years, a five -year sentence for, you know.

[957] Bad photography.

[958] Like, yes.

[959] The worst.

[960] Dyes from cancer in a hospice at age 54.

[961] Whoa.

[962] That's young.

[963] Yeah.

[964] Yeah.

[965] That's her body turned on herself.

[966] Yeah.

[967] They were like, we're shutting this shit down.

[968] Well, she's a monster.

[969] Like, if you watch her talking and see her, she's a monster.

[970] I don't understand.

[971] Like, he's dating, he's a 15 -year -old man dating a 36 -year -old or 34 -year -old.

[972] Why doesn't he just break up with her?

[973] Why does he have to kill her?

[974] He's to, like, rape her and demean her.

[975] And what's the deal?

[976] in the worst way possible and he planned it for weeks like he wanted to do this so badly to her and it was like two years i mean i just don't understand he's a beast that's crazy they went back and interviewed like ex -girlfriends his ex -wife and by all accounts he's a sexual sadist he's a fucking monster like it's surprising that this is the first time he did it did that you know yeah especially because he like at 50 he he kills the first first one, you know, when he had tortured his other girlfriends like this before and they all broke up with him or the end of the relationship somehow.

[977] Or there's just ones that they don't know about.

[978] Also, it's then, it actually explains Marianne a little bit more because those, because of how like weird, spangaliish those types of men can be where suddenly you're doing things that you would never do, maybe.

[979] I don't know.

[980] I don't know her.

[981] We've talked a lot of shit about Marianne, but I'm just saying if she's a victim too in that way where it's just one more person in his weird chain of the way he uses women and what he does to women.

[982] Pits them against each other.

[983] Yes.

[984] Where it's just like, well, you're the special one, so hold this camera.

[985] I mean, like, God, it's just.

[986] Or she's terrified of him because she's had 10 years of fucking psychological and physical abuse from him as well.

[987] And sexual abuse.

[988] You know, she was with him for 10 years.

[989] Yeah.

[990] She's like in so deep.

[991] And brainwashed.

[992] Brainwashed.

[993] PTSD.

[994] it's so ugly that's gross i wish i had a positive spin on it at the end but now i don't think you can spin that one there ain't one they're not that one poor brenda yeah that's awful um yeah we have a murder from a friend should we do kurt's oh yeah okay so okay so okay we haven't done a we haven't done a friend hometown murder in a while yeah um and we have a friend kurt ronneller who I'm sure you guys know he's a hilarious comedian and actor.

[995] And he called one in.

[996] He called one in.

[997] He has a special.

[998] His comedy special is coming out this Friday on Comedy Central at midnight.

[999] He also has a podcast on Audible with his wife, Lauren, who's a good friend of mine called Wedlock coming on April.

[1000] So check those out.

[1001] I haven't listened to this.

[1002] Let's hear Kurtz.

[1003] Wait.

[1004] Okay.

[1005] Hey, it's Kurt.

[1006] So here's my murder story.

[1007] This was a teacher that taught at my high school Christian Brothers Academy.

[1008] It sounds very fancy, but it wasn't really fancy.

[1009] It was just an all -boys Catholic school in Wincroft, New Jersey.

[1010] He was the Latin teacher a few years after I stopped going there.

[1011] But the Latin teachers historically had been lunatics.

[1012] um the latin teacher that was there when i was there was an a monk like a brother um most of the teachers were brothers and they're all like weirdos but he was like the weirdest of the weirdos he wouldn't allow you to have a pen in class or hold a pen and when we uh and uh he also would just always constantly talk about his niece's little cupcake breast not kidding i heard many times about her little cupcake breast um he was taken out of the position of being a latin teacher because a kid in the class was holding the pen and so he punched him in the mouth and then they're like okay you don't get to teach anymore and then that was taken over by my good friend steve uh who was a latin teacher for a little while he couldn't take it it drove him crazy he left that he stopped teaching and went to live in italy to become a stone sculptor a marble stone sculptor and that's when this guy this guy mat took over as the latin teacher but teaching latin the christian brother's academy drove him so crazy.

[1013] But he just started getting into smoking crack.

[1014] Apparently in the afternoons, in a place that my aunt used to live called Ocean Grove.

[1015] And Ocean Grove is a Christian community.

[1016] So Christian in the 80s, on Sunday they would close off the town to cars.

[1017] He's apparently Jesus doesn't like you to drive a car on Sunday.

[1018] And so my aunt used to live there, and she used to babysit me. And she's since become a nun.

[1019] So I'm just trying to express to you how Christian and Catholic this whole situation.

[1020] This guy works at Christian Brothers Academy.

[1021] He's smoking crack with a woman whose last name is Weed.

[1022] So Ms. Weed and this guy, Matt, are smoking crack together on a Sunday afternoon, and then around 6 .30 p .m. They get into an argument.

[1023] He murders her with a knife.

[1024] He stabs her nine times in the neck after, I guess, there was also some beating involved.

[1025] It's very horrific.

[1026] And then he just walked out down the streets, the Ocean Grove.

[1027] So near minutes after people called the cops because they heard him screaming, they just found him wandering down the streets of this Christian town, just bloody, having murdered this woman they just loved to smoke crack with on a Sunday afternoon.

[1028] This was at 6 .30 p .m. So whenever they started smoking crack, I have no idea.

[1029] But that's what my high school would do to you.

[1030] Jesus.

[1031] that's insanity is it weird that i never want to hang out with kirk again because i'm terrified i love the visual of a guy covered in blood walking through a town where you're not allowed to drive on the weekends it sounds like it sounds like yeah there's like it sounds like a twilight zone town yes that's so perfect that then a guy suddenly the image of the opposite of that walking through town also what was driving people so crazy about that Latin class.

[1032] It's fucking Latin, man. There's some, there's some, like, devil shit.

[1033] Devil shit in there.

[1034] It's devilish.

[1035] I can't believe they taught it there.

[1036] Please watch Kurt Brunel our special, Trust Me, which airs this Friday, March 3rd at midnight on Comedy Central.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] Well, that was, Kurt.

[1039] That was quite the episode.

[1040] That was dark.

[1041] That one had something for everybody, I think.

[1042] Mostly murder, if everyone wanted murder.

[1043] Yeah.

[1044] Oh, wait.

[1045] let's say something good okay you go first okay well mine is really big but i also can't super get into detail about it but i'll just say this i had a year a probably three year problem uh get resolved on friday afternoon that has caused me so much stress and panic and and shame and it's a financial thing that's boring in detail, but I will tell you this.

[1046] If you're in a place where you are fucked financially and you're worried and you're scared, it will end.

[1047] And I swear to God, I've been in this place before, but this was like a way, way, way bigger version.

[1048] And it really felt hopeless at times.

[1049] And it's over.

[1050] And part of the reason it's over is because of this podcast.

[1051] And I'm so grateful that we are doing it and that we have it.

[1052] It means the world to me. And I feel crazy lucky that we actually get to do this as a job.

[1053] Me too.

[1054] It's so fun.

[1055] And also just the fact that now this truly it's like a 500 pound weight has been taken off my shoulders.

[1056] So happy for you.

[1057] It's really quite nice.

[1058] I had no idea how rough it was until it ended and you told me. I know.

[1059] I couldn't tell anybody about it.

[1060] It was so silly.

[1061] Please tell me. I can handle fucked up shit well yeah no I know it's just that thing where I think it's like I think everybody has it's some version of it where it's like the problem where you think it's this means some terrible thing about you shame around it yeah or just like it's failure it's it's I failed and now everyone's going to know I failed right um but guess what everybody fails yeah everybody fails on all different levels every day and we're all trying to make ourselves feel better about it so don't beat yourself up and just know the end.

[1062] There's always a silver lining.

[1063] There was always light at the end of the tunnel.

[1064] Yeah.

[1065] I had, in the same kind of idea of that, what you just said, I had, after going to therapy since I was a child, like around five, I had the most amazing session today of, I think, ever.

[1066] And she said to me halfway through, I know you're an atheist, Georgia, but you worship at the altar of doubt.

[1067] and it fucking blew my mind and so we're working on that now and how to get passed out and it was this switch today that I'm so, it made me hopeful for the first time in a long time.

[1068] When I met you, when we were at Jones on 3rd.

[1069] Tonight, today, yeah.

[1070] You absolutely seem different.

[1071] Really?

[1072] Yes.

[1073] Well, you had, first of all, the big smile because somebody who was telling you a story.

[1074] There was a murder story happening when I arrived.

[1075] but then also yeah just that kind of you had almost like the um like almost the eyes like wide eyed wonder kind of thing of like oh my god you can look at the world in a different way and so because of that i want to say like and i know it's so people try to find therapists and they're new at it and they're like this didn't work for me or like didn't like this person and it just is a lifetime of it and i've had so many fucking therapists in my life and a handful have been really good yeah and the one i have luckily is right now is amazing And you just have to keep trying.

[1076] Keep trying because you'll find it.

[1077] It is almost a little bit like dating.

[1078] It has to be a person that you want to spend that time with that you want to barf all your worst stuff on to it.

[1079] Yeah, but still doesn't make you feel bad.

[1080] No. They can't make you feel bad.

[1081] No. And this is the first time she's ever said something straight up to me like that and I fucking appreciate it so much.

[1082] And this is after a year of getting to know me. And that was just life changing.

[1083] Yeah.

[1084] That's a good thing to realize and understand there's options.

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] yeah and uh fuck man i feel lucky too for this podcast i can't believe this my life i'm so we're pretty lucky so lucky knock on knock on winnear wood thank you stephen thank you so much for really bringing us together and making this podcast happen part of this oh thank you stephen ray morris of the podcast is like turning red blushing stephen you can't be here if you can't take a compliment I'm learning, I'm learning.

[1087] Be raiding Steven about not taking our compliment.

[1088] It's better if I yell at you, right?

[1089] This feels like home.

[1090] Yay, well, thanks for.

[1091] I know, I get it.

[1092] Thanks for joining us, you guys, and listening and...

[1093] And participating.

[1094] Guess what?

[1095] What?

[1096] He knows already.

[1097] I know.

[1098] You're jumping your line.

[1099] Yeah, Elvis.

[1100] Stay sexy.

[1101] And don't get murdered.

[1102] Elvis, you want a cookie?

[1103] Bye.

[1104] Bye.

[1105] Bye