JRE MMA Show #148 with Bernard Hopkins

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, checking out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] We're here.

[4] What's up?

[5] Pleasure to meet you, man. I've been a gigantic fan of yours for a long time, so it's a real pleasure.

[6] That's what I've been hearing, Joe.

[7] But, you know, I'm also become a fan in the last couple of years before you came to Austin.

[8] I go out of L .A. a lot to do boxing, promoting, in West Coast, East Coast with the Golden Bowl.

[9] Boy Promotion, I'm a partner Oscar Delaware, so good to be met and good to meet you also.

[10] What is it like transitioning from being a fighter to being a promoter?

[11] Because Oscar, yourself, Floyd, only a few fighters have managed to do that successfully like you have.

[12] Well, first of all, it's not just walking into it.

[13] I sort of got groomed in my career based on, I'll say the last eight, nine years on my 30 -year career, I took on the ownership and responsibility of making the last decisions.

[14] I hired people that can give me the right information.

[15] Not a lot, but just a few people that can give me the right information about this particular fight.

[16] For instance, Kelly Pavlik in Atlantic City, Oscar Delahoya fight in 06, 0607.

[17] And I go groom myself for this moment to be ever to be independent but also learn the business and let me tell you it is difficult it's difficult not doing the job per se but it's difficult in a business in a structure of the business of boxing the small family in boxing whether they hear there in a promotional setting or commissioner setting they would definitely try to discreetly encourage you by any means necessary.

[18] Yeah, I can imagine, especially yourself, because you had had so many issues with promoters over the years, and you were so vocal about it, unlike a lot of other fighters.

[19] Yeah, I mean, because I was one forced to do it to fight back, and then second, I looked at it as I didn't really have a choice, even though I could have laid down or got down, to their demands.

[20] But I understood one thing.

[21] My instincts of survival, but also not just being in the game, I wanted different for myself.

[22] And I had one bad experience, well, I had a couple of bad experience, but I had one, the first bad experience I had early in my career, and I wound up getting out of that deal with Butch Lewis.

[23] And I can mention names, not because he's deceased, but I can mention it because I want to be in actually sued based on keeping me in check.

[24] But I fired back and I wound up, you know, counterpunching and got out of that situation and spoke boldly about it and moved on to try to wake others up, not actually preach, but just bring it up about my situation.

[25] If anybody recognized and experienced it, any fighter or anybody else, they can grab some knowledge.

[26] college.

[27] But that was the start of it.

[28] That was the start of it.

[29] My first professional fight, not first, but my first championship fight was Roy Jones Jr. And that fight was a parity fight.

[30] It was a split, 1 .4 split between me and Roy Jones.

[31] I have the contract.

[32] I kept all the stuff even to the day.

[33] I can go back and reflect and bring not only contact for what I'm speaking about, but I kept it because I paid for it.

[34] It's called litigation.

[35] And so I said to myself, how can it be a number, 750, 725 split, parity, the word parity, and I get 80 ,000 when it's all said and done.

[36] Now, remind you, I'm fresh out of the penitentiary, 88, 89, 90, 90, I rebooted my career after, you know, losing my first fight, didn't box for 15 months.

[37] So now we're in the, what, you know, early 90s.

[38] and I rebooted myself back into reaching a goal that I eventually reached.

[39] But the business part, it had me thinking in between those moments of clamming the ladder of being a contender, that this is more than just going to the ring and winning and not winning.

[40] This was something that I had to learn quick on a job learning.

[41] There's a lot of shenanigans in boxing.

[42] Yes.

[43] I mean, you got a sport, Joe, you got a sport that's unregulated, right?

[44] Whether that means anything to people or not.

[45] But there's no checks and balances there.

[46] The people that set the rules, break the rules.

[47] I'm going to say that again.

[48] The people that set the rules, break the rules.

[49] I mean, you know, you, where can you...

[50] Is that that thing that they said was going to go out?

[51] I figured that.

[52] This is the...

[53] Oh, this is happening.

[54] cell phones and all like that.

[55] Just make sure it's not a real problem.

[56] Okay.

[57] National test.

[58] This is a national test.

[59] See, I was thinking maybe again that was somebody, you know, through boxing, they know it's ready to come out.

[60] They took the business.

[61] You know, these people, man. You know, you got to understand.

[62] There is possibility.

[63] But the possibility of getting ousted, blackballed.

[64] Yeah.

[65] And boxing in such a small circle of separate entities.

[66] that will come together to oust that enemy, to oust that, that, and so you understand the bull's, it's still on my back in certain reasons, because now, even though I'm in a different position of not only power, but for my career, what I stood up for, is not like the past.

[67] So, as a promoter today, and Oscar Della Hoyer Golda Moore Promotion the day we signed the day we became partners we don't become those who we despise now that's deep that was 20 -something years ago you can find that anywhere out there in social media that's there we suited up and booted with contracts after signing and that was one of the statements that I continue to bring up 20 plus years later and be consistent about it.

[68] Now that doesn't mean that every fighter is going to agree to the business side that you have to represent as a promoter.

[69] But one thing for sure, if your talent brings what you asking and your representation, whether they name themselves which boxing does, manager, consultant, or advisor I mean I just named three entities that's sucking the blood out of the ignorance of the lack of knowledge of especially young ones and the ones that don't want to learn I'm not a savior I'm not running and trying to save anyone but trying to understand my job and my role before my lights go out is that I love the sweet science but I also understand that boxing gave me a way not to be rotten in the penitentiary or in the graveyard.

[70] That's what boxing did for me. It gave me that opportunity that I had to walk to walk eventually, absolutely, that I had to make sure that even though things can happen where you come up short in a square circle that I don't give up.

[71] And so having that man and being consistent over the years and still be able to talk in 2023, still know my name, my social security, all the numbers that matters, all the things that attach to me is a blessing.

[72] I'm not bragging.

[73] I'm different.

[74] Let them argue.

[75] Let them on the side, whoever, fans or no fans.

[76] One thing for sure, most will agree that I'm different.

[77] Whatever that difference is, I take it.

[78] But I'm different.

[79] keeping the course of being that as time move on fast approaching 59 january 15th 1965 i'm knocking on the door 60 you look fucking great well ducking hell ducking helps hey joe hands up come on man come on one thing for sure if you duck more than you take Yeah.

[80] You can be able to express yourself as time going on, and you'd be able to be something worthy to your family.

[81] Now, you're going to be worthy if you're there, but that's not fun to me. I want to be there like I am now.

[82] I got a 12 -year -old son, you know, Bernard, right?

[83] Three generations with him, right?

[84] So I want to be there, and he's play football, right?

[85] Don't like boxing.

[86] Right, threw gloves at him.

[87] I guess when he was eight months, he threw him back.

[88] So my whole thing is like not save or not preach as I been accused of a couple of times, but it just is in me, the spirit's in me, the Mohammed Ali, spirits is in me. January 17th, January 15th.

[89] I know that I'm here for more than a purpose that I took that road, I came through that road, some things in my life that I felt that it was needed, that I had to do, I had to be that because that was that mindset.

[90] But once, again, not changing course on the conversation, once I understood my value, and boy, you can appreciate this, when I understood my value in that penitentiary, at 17, when I got certified, at 17, 5 to 15, subtract 5 out of 15 in state prison that leads you to back time, to walk off, call parole.

[91] They had a boxing gym there In all of the Pennsylvania prisons, which was 30 plus, had boxing in a penitentiary.

[92] That was part of baseball, flag football, handball on the wall.

[93] That spark.

[94] That flame came back from a little short amateur career I had.

[95] That's how I built my reputation up in my neighborhood.

[96] I always fought.

[97] Fight in the street.

[98] fighting in school.

[99] How old were you when you first boxed as an amateur?

[100] Like, when did you first walk in a gym?

[101] A nine years old.

[102] My uncle took me to the gym.

[103] My mother's brother, because my father had a brother that boxed too.

[104] And they all was my weight, while I was all their weight, when I started, middle wheat.

[105] My uncle was on both sides of the tree, mother and father.

[106] A boxed that middleweight in the 60s, 70s, early 70s.

[107] So it's in my DNA.

[108] Right.

[109] Can't help myself.

[110] It's who I am and who I became.

[111] But I got back to it when I went to the penitenti.

[112] So when you were an amateur, were you taking it seriously or were you?

[113] No, I wasn't taking it seriously.

[114] You weren't fully committed.

[115] I was eating everything.

[116] Everybody else was eating at that age in the neighborhood and what was there.

[117] I mean, I remember fighting and getting a trophy about this big.

[118] It's always the same stance, right?

[119] Plastic trophy.

[120] But to me, that was like a gold medal.

[121] You know, they got the trophies shown everybody in the neighborhood in the elementary school I was at.

[122] And, you know, they take you to, you know, I want to get no free commercials, but they take you to this, you know, just still around, you know, to get a hamburger, French fries, and you probably know, you know, to take you there and we're happy.

[123] That was it.

[124] Right.

[125] I don't know if they have it here in Texas, the PAL called a police athletic league.

[126] It's big over there in the East Coast.

[127] So the POW lead was structured to get young, black, urban men that's on the corner or young boys, right, to go to Powell.

[128] Anybody can go there, but mostly it was in our neighborhood.

[129] They would, you know, come to the gym and, you know, you can sign up for amateur boxing.

[130] You could be Olympic gold medal.

[131] You can do this and do that.

[132] But I had, you know, family members.

[133] I was in my DNA.

[134] Once I was taken to the gym by Artie McLeod, we call him Ardy McLeod, we call him Ardy, but it was author McLeod called me Moose.

[135] my mother's brother, middleweight, badass, look him up, R .D. McCloud.

[136] The streets took his career.

[137] Obviously, based on what?

[138] Lifestyle.

[139] The streets of Philadelphia, the blue -collar town worker.

[140] Philadelphia can make you or break you when it comes to making it out of there, right?

[141] Not only sports, any entertainer, any success that you might have on your back, And in the community, and again, Philly there's love there.

[142] But a lot of us don't make it out, even though the talent was better than mine.

[143] Strong, right?

[144] The trap of the streets.

[145] The trap of the streets, but also what you're used to doing and what you used to thinking.

[146] Listen, until I traveled through boxing, tell you how much boxing did for me, to travel around the world.

[147] multiple times, meet multiple people from every class of life that I believe, you know, I'm pretty sure as people I haven't met, but from here to there to status of power or influencers, I say, man, the world ain't just no Philly.

[148] The world is not just Raymond Rosen projects.

[149] So I start understanding now, like even sitting there watching at that time how the fork and the spoon and a butter knife is on one side of the table.

[150] And I'm looking, look, this guy's taking an act and putting it on the floor.

[151] I think he's putting on his lap.

[152] I mean, this might sound ignorant, but you got to understand from that mindset of what I'm saying, not understand my experience because some have.

[153] haven't.

[154] But I start paying attention.

[155] That was the key.

[156] Just like in the boxing business, I start paying attention.

[157] Then once I got to the point where I had a voice means I had to do something in boxing.

[158] Nobody cares if you consider it nobody.

[159] 10 in 1 because I lost my first fight, Atlantic City to Clinton Mitchell.

[160] It was out for nine months out of penitentiary.

[161] I wanted to get right back in the ring before I grab a keyload of cocaine like everybody was selling in the 80s or 90s.

[162] That was the plan?

[163] I had a choice to do one or the other.

[164] Right.

[165] Everybody, listen, anybody on, is West Coast and East Coast?

[166] Know the 80 in the 90 era.

[167] Right?

[168] The 80 In the 90 era in urban city was get down and laydown.

[169] Are you in or you out?

[170] That's all across the board.

[171] And growing up being the guy named heads, yeah, my nickname.

[172] That was heads?

[173] Street named heads, yeah.

[174] When you see me coming, I had the same energy.

[175] I had the same discipline.

[176] And it's going to sound weird.

[177] The same discipline that people might think they know me over the years, fans, non -fans, and people that do know me, is the same discipline I had in a negative way.

[178] That really, again, not trying to paint my, the work is there.

[179] I'm pretty sure if they're going to the archives of any police district or whatever, or archives in City Hall down in Philadelphia, they can, O 'Harsburg, the records never go away.

[180] They might think they might have to bring them up one day, but I won't let it happen, not on my watch.

[181] So I took all that experience, and it seemed like a long time ago.

[182] But it felt like to me I lived three different times on this earth.

[183] And I ain't even bring up the two stabins that I wear the scar today from the back and one underneath my left chest.

[184] so there's a lot of times never been shot that I could have done something be the lamb or beat a wolf and I recognize the be the wolf is much better than being a lamb that the person I took stuff from that I went up and looked through on why they're looking at me could have had a gun and blew my brains out which I've lost the brother a year under me, Michael.

[185] I'm 58, he's been 57.

[186] His birthday was January 29th, 1966, my last January 15th, 1965.

[187] Got an older sister.

[188] She's only a year older.

[189] February 14th, 1964.

[190] My mother been in labor for three years in a row.

[191] Wow.

[192] With six kids, when it's all said and done, my mother raised six kids.

[193] but I was raised, I was like raising three, maybe four.

[194] If you ask her if she was here, God rest her soul.

[195] But she got a chance.

[196] And thank you for letting me ramble on.

[197] She got a chance to see in person my talents that she always knew I had since I was an angry, bad boy in elementary school because she'd been up there a lot of times, teachers' meetings.

[198] She got a chance to see me beat Felix Trinidad 9 -11 in New York City, just had an anniversary months ago.

[199] Well, last month, she got a chance to fly in the air for the first time, whether it's commercial or jet, both.

[200] She got a chance to visit places that she didn't have any dream of doing it.

[201] I gave that tour and she passed in 50 I believe 59 58 I lost maybe off a year but my mother passed before 60 she was young here I feel great knocking on 59 she was already gone but every time I've done something and she know I did it never even asked me she showed up Whether there's a visit, whether it's $10 on the books, she never gave up on me. She never turned her back, even though she always threatened me with the, this is the last time.

[202] Now, she might have waited two or three days, but eventually she came and did all she can, whether it's taking a second or third mortgage out on the house to bail me out with a three or four hundred dollars.

[203] or a $1 ,000 bell bondsman.

[204] Come on, child.

[205] Like, until it's over, what I mean by that is, the breath in your body, then it's never really over.

[206] Now, if you let somebody tell you it's over, if you let them plan your frown based on what you can and cannot do, I'm sitting here in front of Joe Rogan.

[207] How many people told you is, Nuts to do what came, yeah, there's a question, what came to fruition in your life.

[208] I'm pretty sure you had a lot of smart, so -called, and some of them were.

[209] They didn't see what I seen.

[210] They didn't see what you seen.

[211] Question on both sides.

[212] I know I'm a testimony to it, and I'm pretty sure, because I've done some research.

[213] I'll always like to know who I'm talking to once I got some knowledge of who I am, who I need to be affiliated with business or non -business.

[214] It just gives me an upper hand to know what I'm facing and what I'm not facing.

[215] I'm always in a fight mode, but I don't have to fight.

[216] It's here, and then it's the physical.

[217] The Art of War, Sun Tzu.

[218] I challenge everybody to get one of those teaching books and go through it every now and then.

[219] The art of war has always been a guideline for me. When I say always, most of my adult career, I say from 23 to now, I started pro at 25.

[220] When I told you how people try to write your own destiny, where you're going to the grave or to success because you said it, I gave him the middle of finger.

[221] I gave him the middle finger, not physically.

[222] I give him the middle finger in action and deeds, which holds a lot more weight.

[223] It does a lot more weight.

[224] And I wanted to let them know that.

[225] So when you got to prison at 17.

[226] Yes, certification.

[227] Did you get serious about boxing then?

[228] No. Was that like your outlet?

[229] No. The first year I ran around the jail.

[230] When I mean run around a jail, I was basically an inmate while 40.

[231] 1 .45.

[232] Basically, I knew people.

[233] I didn't know certain people.

[234] And you literally, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, that's important.

[235] That's important to have, what, backup, right?

[236] You must have that, right?

[237] The Asians was there.

[238] The Caucasians was there.

[239] The Muslims was there.

[240] The Christians was there.

[241] Everybody had sets.

[242] So, you need that.

[243] Now, once you get there, somebody know you and somebody will know why you're there and what you're there for.

[244] Now, you could say you're there for one thing, but the same people that checks you in, basically with the guard watching over them, know your whole case.

[245] They basically do the work, the inmates, not on a 10 -day lifers who's been there and they moved up in the ranks because of their...

[246] clean record in the institution, and they'll look at, oh, he said he got a robbery, but he got a rape.

[247] He's saying they got a homicide, but he got an auto theft.

[248] So the credibility, crazy as might sound, the credibility of which you there for lays not all said and done, but it lays a foundation how they approach you.

[249] And, and, yo, listen, even in the county before you get state time, you got to be in a county, you go back and forth to court, and over 12 months is considered state time.

[250] One and a half to five state time.

[251] That's the half that got you to state.

[252] It's a different ballgame at greater four state penitentiary.

[253] Maximum security.

[254] It's a different ballgame.

[255] knowing somebody whether they know your uncles or my dad Bernard Sr. or anybody else in neighborhood, I know your father.

[256] I remember he used to fight in the projects.

[257] Okay.

[258] Do you really like, is this guy really legit?

[259] You got to find that out whenever.

[260] You ain't going to find out there.

[261] You got to find out later.

[262] These are the, and it could be legit, but these are the things that I've learned and most of them the stuff that I know that in time it will help me once I got out and once I've reached certain level in life that I need to know certain things and I got to schooling in that situation penitentiary because to me I'm in the penitentiary in society just don't have a wall I don't have a wall here and when I'm pointing here, I mean mentally, and I don't have a wall physically where I can see it.

[263] But I know for a fact that being in this position that I've been in for 28 years, this round it off, three decades, based on the sweet science, in the ring, when I started and when I retired, six, seven years ago, as I witness and as I experience, that first half of that first part of life thoughts just said I felt like I lived three or two or three lives is helping me now because when you're in a position where people think they can go on the internet and think they can find out how much you're worth which you're not worth than your CPA you're certified accountant know who you're worth know who you are that's your DNA when it comes to business especially if you got a good one the right one so you get approached with all kinds of agendas and also you get the ones sometimes you get the spirit that come in people that comes thinking that you know no matter how you sound all that I'm not trying to sound smart how you sound smart what that mean certain words you say tell me the definition of it boxing always will have a stigma and I hate to say it, but it's true, 90 % of it.

[264] We trust as fighter too many people that say that they are who they are, and we give them a past that they are what they say they are.

[265] Because of that experience that I just broke down to you just now, it prepared me without having any knowledge it will until I recognized it.

[266] being awareness, having awareness.

[267] If I didn't have that experience that I just spoke about, 20 plus minutes, I would be swallowed up like most of them.

[268] I hear the Tyson stories even when he was on the show, been around him, ford on an undercard many times in Vegas at the MGM.

[269] No, Mandalay Bay.

[270] MGM wasn't even there when I fought on the undercard.

[271] and I hear and a lot of other names and I say to myself they say game -recognized game how are you going to how are you going to kind of ex -convict don't you know I had to talk to get off the block I am not going to where I say I'm going I just want to get off the block and if I get off the block based on that guard letting me off because I say I'm going somewhere that I'm not really going you build up a skill setting or how to deal with people that you need to deal with.

[272] The danger come in is when you do it to everybody.

[273] The benefits of it when you in front of somebody that you know it's full of shit, that you know is looking right at you lying, and you're saying to yourself, how long this conversation going to take to be over?

[274] But being in a position that I've put myself through, nobody gave me anything.

[275] I have to have patience even though I don't have to or I don't want to at that moment because society of what you've done it becomes such great entertainment and historic you get the stamp that you are celebrity and you bigger than God I'm a believer I don't shy I don't push it on the bite I don't bring it up just to bring it up in the conversation to say would I agree to disagree?

[276] So I believe in checks and balances.

[277] I believe in all these things that deal with my situation to balance out things that need to be balanced that keeps me on point to know who I am.

[278] A lot of things I won't forget and a lot of things I will.

[279] on purpose on purpose so I realize one thing I realize this all I do now is being written or going to be written down as I go but when it's over that story no longer be written by me it'll be written by somebody else I don't want that no you know what I want Why I have this time to write it myself and have their awareness to keep me not just in check, but mindful that every step I make, every accomplishment, every failure, every obstacle, every challenge, whatever it is, I'm going to stand 10 toes down on it at all times.

[280] that shows, again, the consistency of Bernard Hopkins Jr. Because anybody that understands and know or follow or know anything about me, because most people don't have the patience to do research.

[281] They want somebody to tell them who Joe Rogan is.

[282] They want somebody to tell them most people who Bernard Hopkins is.

[283] I learn not to be in that world of thinking.

[284] I learned to do my due diligence before I stepped up to my opponent or adversary or any other person that breathed the same air of life that I breathe.

[285] So did you learn this focus and determination and discipline?

[286] Did you learn this because of prison?

[287] Because you wanted to make sure this never happened to you again?

[288] Absolutely.

[289] So that experience when you're 17 being locked up, that was.

[290] And even though it was a horrible situation, pivotal to your growth being in prison.

[291] No, it wasn't.

[292] It wasn't horrible.

[293] No. How so?

[294] Because most of my friends I said was there.

[295] Second, I wanted to get out.

[296] Obviously, when I got caught, you know, when you get caught by the police or you get locked up, obviously you try and do everything to get out, whether you give an alias name, whether you try to, I didn't do it.

[297] But when I got there.

[298] and I seen that it wasn't like it's promoted on TV per se case in point I had more friends there than I had in the neighborhood that's locked up of course they got to see you because you're locked up with them right the mindset Joe when you're there you're not you know you're not thinking damn you're thinking every you got people that's for good reasons looking out for you which means I got this you need this, you got this, you got a stinger, you can heat some hot water up and eat some soup, whatever.

[299] You learn to survive in that situation because I don't believe, and I said this in multiple interviews, multiple interviews.

[300] I did a lot of expressing myself over the 28 years of boxing.

[301] Trust me, it's not hard to find my voice.

[302] I got to understand that without that experience, I wouldn't be here having this conversation with you or anyone else before you, let alone the Hall of Fame, not alone today the oldest athlete.

[303] Yeah, I got Brady a couple of years.

[304] They won a major world title surpassing George Foreman.

[305] Yeah, you were world class into your 50s.

[306] There's only a couple guys like that.

[307] I was defending my title with 25, 30 old's, in my 40s.

[308] Yep.

[309] Well, I remember when they wrote you off before the Kelly Pavlik fight.

[310] I wrote a blog on my website about that fight because I was so blown away because I remember leading into that fight everybody wrote you off first of all in the Felix Trinidad fight.

[311] They thought you were too old then.

[312] 35.

[313] They thought you were over the hill.

[314] Felix Trinidad is young, incredible fighter.

[315] There was so much emotions involved when you went to Puerto Rico and threw the flag on the ground everybody's chasing you i mean you sold the shit out of that fight it was wild i know but it did but it just happened it did yeah it did but it sold like crazy and they were writing you off and you put on a master class i remember that fight i remember that fight like it was yesterday just had the anniversary last month whew because i was always a big fan and i was a big fan also of the fact that you were standing up to the promoters because i remember the people like the hpo boxing people they didn't like it they didn't like when you talked about all that stuff.

[316] They thought you were wasting their time.

[317] But you had an important message.

[318] And so people were kind of looking to write you off.

[319] So by the time you fought Felix Trinidad, it was one of those crossroads fights where many people thought Felix Trinidad is going to become an all -time grade.

[320] Bernard Hopkins is 35.

[321] You know, this would be a good win for Felix Trinidad.

[322] And you just fucking boxed masterfully.

[323] It was a beautiful fight.

[324] It was a beautiful fight because it showed.

[325] All the things I love about your style.

[326] First of all, the intelligence, the defensive responsibility, you never put yourself in bad positions.

[327] Never.

[328] Your defense was always tight as Fort Knox, and you start picking them apart.

[329] And I remember watching going, oh, shit, oh shit.

[330] It was just one of those fights where it was just so exciting.

[331] It was so, because, you know, even though I was a fan of yours, and I was a fan of Felix Trinidad as well, it was watching it happen.

[332] And when you watch it something special.

[333] And that's the thing that athletics does for us, and particularly fighting because it's so raw.

[334] What it does to us is it shows us the potential that human beings have beyond what we expect.

[335] You did that with Felix trained at, and you were in your 40s when you fought Kelly, right?

[336] Yes.

[337] How will you do that?

[338] Multiple times in my career.

[339] Kelly Pavlik, I'd say 44, 45.

[340] Which is another one.

[341] That's when I wrote a blog about it.

[342] I'm like, do you understand how crazy this is?

[343] They predict it.

[344] I get knocked out on this one.

[345] Yeah.

[346] This one, and I'm, That was after the Jermaine Taylor fight, right?

[347] Yes.

[348] So people thought, oh, my God, this kid.

[349] I'm glad you said that.

[350] Stop right there.

[351] Yes.

[352] The two Jermaine tele fights, right?

[353] Now, I accept my losses.

[354] But those two, not losing sleep in 2023 over it, but I met him regret the lie.

[355] What I mean by that is, that Jermaine Tela heist.

[356] Luther Bella used to work for HBO, started Luttebella Entertainment, so he had Jermaine Teller under the entertainment of Luttebella, so they wanted to use Jermaine Teller to get me out of boxing because of, I generate a lot of enemies.

[357] They've been my biggest supporters being my enemies, to not go to fall asleep at the wheel, or to underestimate anybody that comes in front of me, whether they're worthy or not.

[358] number one contender, number one, two contender.

[359] That's another politics story that sometimes they put people there just because of they can put people there.

[360] Jermaine -Teller fight, split decision win to Jermaine -Teller.

[361] The second fight, which I believe was just as close as the first fight.

[362] So Jermaine -Teller went 24 rounds with Bernard Hopkins, correct?

[363] Lost his mind, having been right since.

[364] They feed them.

[365] They, the powers to be.

[366] Want the fans to believe the lie, which it was a lot of rumbling about who won that first fight.

[367] A split decision, the champion doesn't get the split decision, and not a favor, but R .P. Remain -Teller.

[368] But three, four days in boxing, it goes away.

[369] Who cares?

[370] We fight the second fight because, as a champion, I can put in the country.

[371] contract, hey, Spence and Crawford.

[372] Crawford wants to exercise that, you know, that clause.

[373] Correct.

[374] So we got that second fight, decision loss.

[375] They think it's going to make a little better, not a split decision, that decision.

[376] Okay, they wanted me to pack up and run.

[377] Basically get the fuck out of here.

[378] We got you.

[379] They fed him the Kelly Pavlik because they wanted the fans.

[380] They wanted you at that time.

[381] smarter.

[382] Not patronizing being, keeping a 100.

[383] They put Kelly Pavlik in there with Jermaine Teller and Kelly Pavlik did what?

[384] Knocks him out after a warranting a knock out himself, correct?

[385] Yeah, real close to going out.

[386] Yeah.

[387] So now they said, hey, we want to, they want to clean up the mess.

[388] I've been around this game 30 side.

[389] Joe, trust me on this one.

[390] They want to clean up the mess.

[391] They're still getting, they're getting hammered with the fight with me and Germain.

[392] They're putting him in there with Kelly.

[393] Thought he was going to walk him over.

[394] Kelly stops him.

[395] We're going to now and try to make things up on a back end now.

[396] We've got to still make that thing up with Bernard Hopkins because Tom is not going to bury it because Bernard got a big mouth.

[397] And Bernard's going to keep talking.

[398] So let's pick Kelly Pavlik.

[399] Hold up.

[400] Let's pick Kelly Pavlik in there with him.

[401] In Atlantic City, Joe.

[402] He's going to get Bernard.

[403] This is the first time Larry Merchant, who I had a lot of fun beating him up on the mic.

[404] Hey, this is the first time we might just see Bernard gets in.

[405] He's going to get knocked out this fight because they wanted you to thank that the Jermaine Tullet fight.

[406] Some of my I said earlier, they wanted you to believe the lie.

[407] They got to promote the lie.

[408] Yeah.

[409] And hoping they look like a genius when it happens.

[410] Yeah.

[411] One of my best performance, not just in the ring, but one of my best performance or who I am, how I won't let them write my death warrant or my exit warrant or who I am.

[412] See, the thing is they know who I am.

[413] Oh, your enemy know who you are.

[414] That's why they're threatened by that.

[415] They seen you come in Joe long time ago.

[416] but it's a time that that comes and goes when they know they can't stop you right now at 2023 right now fast approaching 2024 and I'm sitting up and having a conversation articulating everything I said and know what I'm saying dates and time they didn't expect that they didn't expect that they expect a voice recorder when me sitting up here like the movie Bernie dead but alive I'm here bigger than just who I became I'm gonna say that again I'm here this when it comes not overly spiritual but this is what I believe I'm here to prove through me can't speak for anybody else that that was that the historic chapter is the second layer of foundation which is to come that they better be aware of that they better be aware of because now that statement brings me to this conversation that need to be said and this is the best platform to spill it out on.

[417] The boxing game, the business of boxing has to be met with a personality and a discipline no matter what the wind is blowing which way it is blowing that I'm not going to give up.

[418] And that's what the threat is.

[419] And that's what the fear is.

[420] And it's not fair to me personally.

[421] It's fairing what I know and what I can do and my consistency to bring the people together.

[422] Whether the ones that really mean it, the good politician, the people that's in the game of boxing, some commissioners, not all.

[423] To understand that we need checks and balances in this business, to the least to have law there to, as a structure, to honor and go by.

[424] And if there's any violation like anything else, you get test ties for it.

[425] You got to pay, you've got to get punished in so many ways to do it.

[426] So boxing, like any other sport in America, is the only sport that's not regulated by any entity other than itself.

[427] Hmm You know, Joe, I used to always say to myself back then There are so many When they hear this, they're going to be, oh my God There's so many Non -active, non -active Excuse me Lawyers in boxing There's a lot of lawyers Or can be lawyers They went to law school, they got to the law license, but they don't practice.

[428] But they have knowledge of what they can do and what they can't do.

[429] Do you understand what I'm saying?

[430] Yeah.

[431] So already most of us are at a disadvantage, not at an advantage to know to do's and don'ts.

[432] Right.

[433] Whether or not you're getting fucked.

[434] So, yes, yes.

[435] Whether or not we're getting fucked.

[436] And most of the time you get fucked.

[437] And 99 .9 .9 .9.

[438] 9 % you're getting fucked.

[439] When you were saying that the Roy Jones Jr. fight, there was a 1 .4 split and you made 7 .50 or whatever it was.

[440] After all that, you only brought home 80?

[441] Yeah.

[442] How is that possible?

[443] I had a contract.

[444] Again, this was the ignorance coming.

[445] Lack of knowledge.

[446] I had a contract with a management team that sold me out with the promoter.

[447] And the promoter, again, Butch Lewis, God rest of soul.

[448] he somehow convinced my managers at that time arising boxing that he can do better for them in the long term fighters come and go managers and advisors stay around whatever name they put themselves under and so I had a 60 -40 when I said ignorance early I had a 60 -40 manager contract.

[449] I have it to the day framed in my office.

[450] That's pretty crazy.

[451] 60 -40 manager contract.

[452] I kept their contract.

[453] I framed it.

[454] So these things because it shows how far I evolved.

[455] What's a standard contract?

[456] What's a fair contract?

[457] Which you negotiate.

[458] What is like what is a good professional kit?

[459] In boxing?

[460] Yeah, like Jermel Charlo for the canal.

[461] I'll say a manager shouldn't get no more than 15 % at that level of 10 % most of the time but no more than 15 because he might be doing other stuff and he might got investments in you leading up to that moment right right that you know leading up to that moment he had you ran out of Olympics or he had you straight up fighting at a club fight and you build to stuff up to a contender and then you're a championship yeah right so I would say no more than 15 % And a lot of feedback and a lot of response going to be really on that point that I just said when it comes the number.

[462] No more than 25, 25, 30.

[463] You got advisors right now, and they call themselves advisors working as a promoter.

[464] Which means that part of the change of boxing, part of the fight that I know that's going to be a rumble going into the next generations.

[465] And we're in that golden boy promotion.

[466] Top ranked by Bram, been around 50 plus years, just as long as Don King.

[467] Right?

[468] Time is very, very short and limited.

[469] Right?

[470] Not saying they won't go out of business, but the brand is there, but the energy and the strength, it's a new game now.

[471] It's a new war order.

[472] Curtis Mayfield.

[473] Right?

[474] I'm an old -school guy.

[475] Curtis Meets, the new war order, right?

[476] It's happening now in certain situations and it's going to happen in boxing.

[477] Everything has been flipped and churned around.

[478] to survive surviving and the dead dies.

[479] Boxing has no guidelines on which you can do, how much you can take other than the commissions, not all, but most of them, is governing the rules that they said.

[480] And that's where the problem come.

[481] The manager job is to, to manage and look out by enemies necessary for the fighter.

[482] The promoter promotes the event, get sponsors, get the money, get the support, and he and the manager go to the table and they have a conversation about what is there, the minimum.

[483] Konello $30 ,000, $25 million the other night.

[484] That was negotiated by a consultant that's really a promoter hiding in the closet.

[485] Hmm.

[486] Boxing is a great sport.

[487] The business red light district.

[488] And any red light district that I know of is not.

[489] not a good place to be if you're going to be preaching that church on Sunday.

[490] Well, boxing has always been controlled by crime figures, mob, crooked lawyers.

[491] But that was then.

[492] Now, it's a different time and way to do it.

[493] Those days with the envelope underneath the table, no. That bend stopped.

[494] The way is being done now is based on favoritism who they want in who they want out when it comes to who they can exploit who they can make more money with and who they can and cannot influence how deep does it go like how does it be as far as like judges because there's been some fights where like Timothy Bradley versus Manny Pacquiao where the decision gets announced and everybody just goes what?

[495] There's a few of those decisions where people go what is the line what's the betting line who's financially tied to this who's the promotion?

[496] I get your recent one Lumachinko Yeah I mean Devon Haney Yeah like like the answer that question is who they want to win and move to the next level because that's where they can make the most money and that's where they have the most control hello yeah so this is something that you really have to be a Harvard graduate to understand right like this is like in your face it's like so what like I'm taking it to the point that deep like like I know y 'all see hub and I know this is this is boxing no what you mean this is boxing you were here reporters that been around just as long as the promoters right?

[497] Because they can get a free meal at the press conference or they can get somewhere, they got their little perks, right?

[498] They can get a little free condensual wearing around your neck and there's silly soul.

[499] Yeah.

[500] So when you're in that environment that's so tight when it comes to the community of it they can smell your fart.

[501] You like that?

[502] It's crazy.

[503] I mean, is that is that It's that serious.

[504] And I'm saying to, you know, my small circle is like, yo, you're telling me that this judge, along with the other two judges, right, it's three ringside, it's three judges, right?

[505] Six hours, six out balls that's watching this fight.

[506] Nobody's drooling from the mouth, right?

[507] Nobody got an oxygen tank, right?

[508] Judging, so we assume that the commission of that state, Vegas, here, there, whatever, L .A., whatever, they assign these judges.

[509] They screen these judges.

[510] Anybody do a background check and save anybody mortgages late or they car payments are late, eight, nine months due?

[511] Like, we need to understand the qualifications of being a judge.

[512] because lives of careers is at stake at that high level where not only you've taken something from that particular fighter but his family is wrapped up in that too.

[513] They don't look at that.

[514] Right.

[515] They don't care.

[516] And so when it happens every now and then and not every 10, 15, 20 years, whether it makes it right or not, This is a consistency, and also from the previous decades and moments in history, boxing still has that question.

[517] Is boxing rigged before it goes down?

[518] Is boxing controlled by the underworld or the new underworld or the world of influence or the world of the world who they want to make more money off of?

[519] It's about who they can make more money offer.

[520] And look, I'm not going to say I understand.

[521] Because if I say I understand, then I feel that I am not going to do nothing about it, then I feel I'm part of the problem.

[522] Because a lot of guys and a lot of people in boxing business know when I'm talking is genuine and is straight up the truth.

[523] But they would never do what I'm doing right now.

[524] They just accept it.

[525] Well.

[526] Or they just deal with it.

[527] They don't talk out again.

[528] their mouth shut and not all but there's some have things to lose payday pay day so or positions of where they at or what they do they don't want to lose whatever it is big or smart you to them is their god or next to it that's our deep that is.

[529] I witnessed it.

[530] I'm there on the front row.

[531] And I'm not having no nonsense.

[532] And the thing of not having that is one thing of saying it.

[533] Joe, I don't need a job from them to pay my bills.

[534] I don't need them to do something for me based on a threat or based of silence you.

[535] See, That's the power I was talking about early, not the other power.

[536] Some could be great.

[537] Some can be not great.

[538] But the power of do for self and a power of being consistent and got there in spite of the black balling.

[539] They're never giving up as you witnessed with the Tito fight.

[540] That was the beginning of their demise who I became today in 2023.

[541] And he still can talk and speak.

[542] and he hadn't forgotten nothing only if he chose to that's when I say power yeah but that's your discipline that's your drive and that's so extraordinary that you were able to maintain that at you know the Kelly Pavik fight again you're 44 in that fight 44 45 that's crazy yes compete at a world -class level against one of the top guys in the sport who's a knockout artist at 44, 45, and just put on a clinic.

[543] That, put on a clinic.

[544] That moment there was around the time I became the alien.

[545] When you boxed for three decades, you got three brains.

[546] The executioner.

[547] You had to change it to the alien.

[548] Listen, I understood the time I hung around, and I had to recreate myself.

[549] I had to bring something to the press conference.

[550] Joe, I know you want to ask the question, but I'm going to answer it.

[551] But I had to come up with something.

[552] Why, Joe, is because.

[553] Because what?

[554] Every reporter that's been covering me, they got tired of covering me eventually, not based on what I've done and didn't do.

[555] I'm making history.

[556] They know it.

[557] Every time I fight, they remind me every fight I win.

[558] Now, he just did this, you just did that.

[559] Ray Roberts, you couldn't do it, and you did it.

[560] The Tarver fight, jumping up two -way classes.

[561] Now, the Chalo brothers, right?

[562] You see what he?

[563] tried to make history.

[564] Went up to jump two -way classes and fight Canello.

[565] I set records that's still there to be chased.

[566] It's a blessing for me to sit back and have fun and have conversation.

[567] But I understood, again, every moment, every historic moment, every time that I can stay in the game, not because I needed the money.

[568] they was paying me very well to leave they was paying me very well to leave because of what I wanted to make sure that I established a historic record that it would take decades to break them and that's what's happening today or an attempt to happen and so that to me gave me more drive I have to say, ah, I'm going to stay around one more.

[569] I'm going to chase this dream.

[570] I'm going to chase that gold.

[571] I'm going to make this history because Ray Robinson didn't do it.

[572] I'm going to jump up two -way classes and fight Tarver.

[573] How old are you when you fought Tarver?

[574] 58, 49.

[575] You know how crazy that is?

[576] Yeah.

[577] In Atlantic City.

[578] Again, this is...

[579] How are you able to do that?

[580] What separates you physically from all those fighters that deteriorated young in their career?

[581] Is it your defense?

[582] Like, is it just technique?

[583] Like, what?

[584] It was a combination as a recipe.

[585] It was all above.

[586] Break them down to you.

[587] I'm going to break them down to you.

[588] Okay.

[589] It was two of those that you mentioned, discipline, of course.

[590] You know, protecting yourself at all times in that ring, even though you're still going to get hit.

[591] But you want to hit more than you get hit, obviously, the wear and tear.

[592] Lifestyle.

[593] Joe, the lifestyle.

[594] outside the ring It's impeccable You got to You got to understand The lifestyle and the discipline Go back to D -block Let's go back to D -block Let's go back to running that yard Yard out Yard in Let's go back Winning Championships and Grated Ford Penitentiary Before I came home I was a championship in prison You go to my Instagram I know they're going to go now I put up a sparring session with all the inmates outside the ropes watching me sparring the same penitentiary I got paroled from.

[595] I have more video that I kept just for my own safe keep not knowing a goal today.

[596] What kept me in the business of boxing physically was not just my talent.

[597] I'm not downplaying it by no means.

[598] Roy Jones was talented in me. Oscar Delo Hoyer, Trinidad was talented then Bernard, come on now you had to, no, I ain't talking I'm talking about as far as all around skills but one thing I did have I had the room and ability to do what?

[599] To reinvent myself, to make sure that I don't be one way all the time.

[600] I learned styles that Roy possess I learned styles that Trinidad possess.

[601] I learned the street, Philadelphia, mentality of the history of Philadelphia, come in, bam, bam, thank you, ma 'am.

[602] I learned all that stuff and wrapped it up in the recipe, and now the main course was served.

[603] I learned so many things through time and experience.

[604] Up or down, bad or good.

[605] Like or dislike.

[606] I learned all these things and put them together in their proper space, and I said, guess what?

[607] If I'm in there with a guy that's strong the first couple of rounds, I'm going to know it without showing him I'm being leery of him.

[608] And once I identify that, it takes about two or three rounds.

[609] Why do you think they said he's a slow starter?

[610] He's boring the first four or five fights.

[611] Joe, you watch me. You heard him say all the commentators.

[612] They snoring around the fourth round.

[613] They snoring.

[614] But then I understand what I have to do.

[615] Turn up the gas.

[616] Not only, yep, turn up the gas, but disarm them.

[617] disarmamentally, which control from my perspective, everything you do tomorrow, everything you do the next round, everything you think about doing if I pit doubt in your mind, and come to the ring, prepare physically to take you to that task of whether you believe what you say.

[618] That's the block.

[619] And then you take that experience, which I've had, not bragging and boasting about it, But it's my history, it's part of my story.

[620] Without that, I'm not here.

[621] One of the enjoyable things I would love doing before the fight start is when a referee, Bernard, come out, Jermaine Teller, and then we're in the middle of the ring.

[622] And he's giving you last rights, right?

[623] Last instructions of the rules he gave you in the dressing room.

[624] I call it the last rights because you don't have to be alive when you leave out of there.

[625] When that bell ring, your life could be in that, in jeopardy.

[626] So I wanted to say last rights.

[627] So when they give us the last rights, you heard the ruse, you heard this, it's too low, this too high if you hit there, and I'm looking at my opponent like me and you're looking at each other.

[628] He's looking at me, I'm looking through him.

[629] I said it earlier.

[630] And whatever he see, he won't speak, but he can't run now.

[631] And as his bottom lip shiver, as we stare at each other for at least two seconds before he gives us the destruction to go to the corner and then the bell ring first round is on and ain't how fast and how good I start it's how I finish that's how I beat my opponents in and out of the ring they front runners they run in 880s and they're like oh I got a great time I'm like okay we're not done though that's the patient that is knowing who you are and understanding that in doing that you might have to taste some defeat.

[632] But you always hear the sound bite, especially in boxing, they love to use words because other people say it, dare to be great.

[633] Their actions don't speak the words they come out of their mouth most of the time.

[634] And that's what separate the do's, and the don'ts the dare to be great correct and to believe in yourself at 44 45 years old to still be not just world class but one of the best in the world thank you that was just it was just extraordinary that you were able to keep that level of skill I just want to talk to you about your lifestyle and your training and what was it about your preparation the way you lived that gave you you this incredibly long career.

[635] My mother and father, Bernard Sr., and Shirley Hopkins, my mother, they lived, they had a different way of, at that time, the way they lived.

[636] I come up, I told you again, you know, a big family, four sisters, and the rest boys.

[637] I'm the second oldest.

[638] and they both my mother and father was dead before 60 not because of an accident not because of some violent crime or anything like that lifestyle I grew up around a lot of stuff I've seen a lot of stuff I used to watch my father take syringes and hot them up at the woodwork of the front of the door up top and I used to climb up through the chair and get it and hand it to my mom and she said where do you get that from and I used to say it and I stopped I realized I was starting something it had to be about maybe six maybe seven and I realized I was starting something so I no longer used to see him put it up there or go up there and get it and so it's the lifestyle I've seen a lot of lifestyle that I knew and the history too of Philadelphia any little success you get, you think you're a world champion, no, you're a regional champion, you're a Pennsylvania champion.

[639] A lot of guys actually wasn't disciplined and take it to the next level.

[640] They became stars in their own neighborhood.

[641] They became stars in their own city.

[642] I wouldn't be bigger than that.

[643] And so, and knowing it and saying it, it's one thing.

[644] But this has as I speak now, as that conviction that I've continued to walk that walk and talk to talk, That drove me to be able to never give up and never, never waver from what I believe.

[645] So that there helped me stay away from the things that is right in front of your face than most of the time.

[646] When you win, they have after parties with Bernard, we're champ, he'll pop up upstairs, he getting in a hot tub.

[647] I go right to my room.

[648] I wasn't a monk, but I go right to my room because 90 % of people that's at that party maybe half of them was rooting against me and then second, they either smoking, drinking, snorting, or anything else, I wasn't about that life.

[649] I wasn't about that when I was a huddle of them in the streets.

[650] I was about having things that I felt that my parents didn't have enough to give us that life that we just seen right three blocks.

[651] from where we lived.

[652] And sometimes, especially in California, you can make two turns and you and somewhere where you'd be like, well, hold up, who hit the lottery?

[653] So I wanted that life in a different way and got a chance to now have it and some through the travels and the time that I've been on this earth where those two life experience that I look at, three lives that I lived, just the third one, that any of those times could have been over.

[654] That kept me discipline in between fights.

[655] The years that I got, got to have some credit, got to give credit to that thinking and that experience of saying my mother and father died before 60 because of lifestyle.

[656] My father had shot out of liver.

[657] shot his liver out of 57 I feel the best you look great I know I feel great I know I look great and it was already gone I reflect every now and then about that when I see pictures by getting certain things together about my life story I'm looking and reading I'm looking and grabbing things that I kept that's given to me by siblings we all grown now all my siblings except for my brother because he got killed.

[658] A year I went to prison in 84, my mother lost two sons, speaking of that.

[659] Michael Derek Hopkins, I told you January 29th, he'd have been 57, 1966.

[660] The year 84, I remember it was the beginning of 84 because the Sixers' last championship was in 1983, if you're a basketball fan.

[661] 84, I was booked.

[662] 84, my brother got killed.

[663] Shirley May Hopkins lost two sons in 84.

[664] Talking about trauma.

[665] That was a key, key, key push and experience that I had to do something to make her proud.

[666] To make her proud once I get out.

[667] Still got years to do.

[668] How many years do you want to do it?

[669] Five.

[670] Five to 15.

[671] So track 5 out of 15, the way the Pennsylvania Parole Board works, if you get out on your minimum is 5, you can do the 15.

[672] You get into a stabbing, you get write -ups, do something in there that can be a crime to.

[673] The 5 is the minimum.

[674] The 15th is the max.

[675] So I had to walk a straight line amongst chaos.

[676] No confusion.

[677] Everybody, 90 % of people there, they know why they're there.

[678] Fuck what they say.

[679] They know why they're there.

[680] That moment, after that first year of establishing myself, filling out the environment of who you do it, who you stay away from, who to snitch, what guard, what CO is good, what CO is good, It's not most of the COs live in the same neighborhood you grew up at.

[681] It was the brother of your uncle, friend, who never had a felony, so he got a fill out of application, you got a job, and then he's the CEO.

[682] I know your dad.

[683] Okay, thanks.

[684] A .C .O. Can I, you know, get an extra commissary?

[685] What I go ahead.

[686] So you're not really protected by nobody because anybody can sell you out or do a favor.

[687] But I'm trying to understand.

[688] understand is just physically.

[689] I understand that you didn't party.

[690] I understand that you were very disciplined.

[691] But how are you physically able to compete at that level deep in your 40s?

[692] Because again, lifestyle talent.

[693] But everybody else falls apart.

[694] Because everybody else is doing what everybody else has been doing.

[695] What were you doing different physically?

[696] Physically, I was always, even to the day, I pay attention to what I put in my body is who I am.

[697] Not what I actually look like.

[698] And I understood that most people that I seen in my time in boxing, Florida is disciplined the same way don't drink those smoke and be sitting right there in the club and everybody doing everything else.

[699] You heard that before.

[700] It's all over.

[701] You got those type people like that.

[702] Genetics plays.

[703] My grandmother lived in 99.

[704] But then again, do I really take all the...

[705] eggs and pinionette bass because my father and mother died before 60.

[706] So I would say the lifestyle.

[707] I would say the mindset or the teachings are both.

[708] Hit, not get hit.

[709] You know, rebooks a lot.

[710] Do something to exercise your brain.

[711] Take care of your physical body.

[712] The penitentiary.

[713] The penitentiary taught me more going there once I got there to understand what I wanted to do.

[714] I wasn't just lifting weights in a weight yard and be swole up around a bunch of men for five years.

[715] I went and understood that, A, after a year I went by, they got a boxing program.

[716] I wanted to get off the block to go to another block and the guard.

[717] C .O. said, where are you going, while 41, 45?

[718] Hey, I'm going to the gym, but I'm trying to go on A block to hang out before count to go back on my block.

[719] If I don't do it, if I don't get over it before count, I get it right up.

[720] so I was forced to go down to gym and seeing people sparring and I said I want to be a part of that and I got my ass beaten lesson and I didn't like it and I never been afraid to go in the gym again 30 years later I said I would never go in the ring or any situation ill -repaired or unrepaired, I always go in there prepared.

[721] That lesson that I said to you then, and I say to you now, being in that institution, having that experience, going in that gym for the first time and say after a year went by, and only by accident that I went down that gym because I was hit it to another block, as I said earlier.

[722] And then get down there, gym, because boxing was in the penitentiaries in that era.

[723] We had box in there attached to the AAU, which is the same thing they have outside.

[724] He's to bring young fighters in there to fight us, the amateurs, have shows for the inmates.

[725] You buy a ticket at the commissary, you go to the fights that Friday.

[726] And inmates watch you, root for you.

[727] I didn't like how I felt.

[728] I wasn't prepared.

[729] He didn't beat me because I wasn't better.

[730] I got beat because I didn't run.

[731] I got beat because of the ego.

[732] I got beat because, as they say the word, hater, that I go down there and say, how he are.

[733] You won't get in there with him?

[734] Yeah, come on.

[735] I used to box when I was in the streets.

[736] You know, that's the common talk.

[737] I should do this when I was in the street.

[738] Okay.

[739] But those same old -haired trainers that had double -life or one -life sentence or two -life sentence, they spoke about me on Behind the Glory, Brian Gumbull.

[740] Look it up.

[741] It's out there.

[742] They spoke about me when I visit that same prison in my early professional career.

[743] Guess what?

[744] Doing what?

[745] Sparring for my Atlantic City preliminary fights when I was building my record to get to where I became a champion.

[746] I became the USABA champion, which is a sister of the IBF World Championship belt.

[747] I left that institution.

[748] Anyone would have ran much as far as they could.

[749] They'd have ran so far from that place and never want to say it again.

[750] But after six to seven months of coming from a first professional loss with Clinton Mitchell in Atlantic City, look it up, I took off 89 and 90.

[751] The streets was grabbing me. I still had seven and a half years paroled through the math, nine years.

[752] I rebooted my first fight, I believe, was in 91, 90 and 91.

[753] But that crucial moment, that year and a half, if you look up my record, you'll see Clinton Mitchell, 89, inactive, 90 inactive, 91.

[754] what was happening in these 16 months.

[755] I made the decision meeting the old guy named Bowie Fisher.

[756] Guy R. Sissel.

[757] He won a championship.

[758] He should be in the Hall of Fame because of me. I'm already in there.

[759] I'm the only fighter he ever had.

[760] Very few training is going to Hall of Fame with one Hall of Famer or fighter.

[761] The fighter gets in, but the training might not.

[762] And I'm not saying it's bad or good.

[763] just saying that's how it goes.

[764] He made a, and I made a bet.

[765] You being the, this is out there.

[766] You be in the gym tomorrow, and the next day, and every day that we're in the gym, I will be here.

[767] He heard young fighters come through.

[768] He heard God's come through before.

[769] Oh, do you train me?

[770] I'm going to be here tomorrow.

[771] He might come tomorrow, but they don't come.

[772] to be a champion every day that the gym is open and we had a bet without even saying it's a bet he asked me to come and he would be there if I come he said he'll be there and it was sort of like he and to the point we stopped even thinking about it we just repeated it to the reporters and everybody to talk to us so that's how we met how long after your first professional lost do you hook up with bully fisher 80 91 92 so that's 16 months that's when you hook up with him and how long do you spend training with him before you have your next professional fight all the way up to the trinidad fight so during that 16 months off will you just training were you just improving Yeah, but the training was fighting, you have mandatories.

[773] I had two fights, maybe three a year, until you establish yourself normally two a year once you get at that level of, you know, competition.

[774] But yeah, I stayed in the gym.

[775] You heard this saying, a gym rat.

[776] I was a rat in that gym.

[777] I stayed in the gym.

[778] And one thing that I pass on to the go to me. boy fighters today because they can you know they come to me they ask me quit of course why wouldn't they right right history normally repeats itself watch old fights the old fights the old fights they're watching is our era I say not only that go to the next era go as farthest back that you need to go to understand that what you think you're doing has been done already but the beauty of going back and getting that experience and added to the land of time that you got.

[779] The land, you have land, you can build a stench it to the house.

[780] The land you have in your age and the time you now are developing, take knowledge from the cradle to the grave and take those recipes, put them together from the past.

[781] And you add it to the foundation that you already have, which is you, your style.

[782] It would be hard to adjust to a god to adjust to be.

[783] be the guy that has more than one weapon.

[784] And I don't mean their hands.

[785] I'm talking about in the arsenal.

[786] In the arson.

[787] It's hard to be the guy like that.

[788] Joe Frazier, great fighter, Hall of Famer, but never boxed like Ali.

[789] He came forward even though it was to his disadvantage.

[790] You're in New York City at 12 noon, driving, but you don't have reverse.

[791] You're going to get jammed up.

[792] Right.

[793] You're anywhere in there, you're anywhere in New York Times Square down there and you came back up?

[794] You're going to have a problem.

[795] I guarantee you.

[796] Take that concept into a fight.

[797] You know that you got to back up, or at least duck some of those, but you're still conditioned to go forward because you've been successful all the way up to now.

[798] I never wanted that element of surprise.

[799] So I learned how the box going forward, sideways, from Philly I don't know how to go forward but now I'll show you the boxing style and I'm sure it so I gave my opponent's fits on trying to find a strategy that I actually going to stick with myself that they can beat me on and again it was successful very few but some were successful and some got to help but I have no I have no reserve apologizing and anything that happened in my career that I've done and I say that at that moment even though you didn't ask but you bought it up the Tito, Trinidad I've been to San Juan maybe two or three times do I know for sure when I went there and ate food did somebody spit in the kitchen in my food?

[800] I don't know that but I can tell you the love that I got the response that I got and it's not the same generation but it's always an old G hanging around cigars Panama hat come right out you're Bernard you beatio you're old here I'm in San Juan and I got the generations all in between surrounding me saying you was a great champion sign gloves, sign my autograph, come on.

[801] You really mean that, Papa, you mean to mean, you threw the flag down.

[802] You don't like Puerto Rico?

[803] I said, what are you talking about?

[804] We got a little sand wine in Philadelphia.

[805] Every city got a little sang wine.

[806] I said, but at that moment, I wasn't getting respected.

[807] It's a dying king promotion.

[808] I had to sleep business -wise to get their opportunity.

[809] with Don for two fights.

[810] So I had a two -fight deal.

[811] The tournament.

[812] And I'm the oldest one in the tournament.

[813] I'm the grandfather in the tournament that should be in the nursing home based on their...

[814] Well, based on most fighters of your era when they got to that age.

[815] Correct.

[816] But I understand.

[817] Right.

[818] How they're thinking.

[819] But the difference is I'm different.

[820] But I got to prove it.

[821] Yeah.

[822] So now, The promotion starts.

[823] We're in New York, HBO, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[824] I say, hold on.

[825] Tio Trinidad has multiple followers.

[826] He has a multimillion dollar contract with TV.

[827] I'm the renegade.

[828] Out of the tentatory, every time the commentators bring my name up, he did five years for this, rap I. So I understand the Robin Hood and understand the bad guy.

[829] So you got the good guy to bad guy.

[830] That's what sells.

[831] I get it.

[832] but I ain't had to surrender to it.

[833] I knew what their agenda was.

[834] Now let me show mine.

[835] In New York City, I said, listen, this is the first four -city press conference.

[836] I have 11 defenses.

[837] I stopped at 21, 22 defenses.

[838] I had 11 at this time.

[839] I said, look, I'm the champion.

[840] Tito's coming up to wait to win my title.

[841] Don King presented me a deal with my advice.

[842] representator for a two -fight deal to be in this historic since Marvin Hagler underspirited tournament for the Sugar Ray Robinson trophy.

[843] You don't pass that up because this takes me to start him.

[844] So I signed on.

[845] Press conference starts.

[846] New York.

[847] You want me to play second.

[848] Tito is more known.

[849] Tito just beat Oscar Delaware by split decision.

[850] Controversia not, it's a big decision.

[851] I'm letting everyone know it at HBO.

[852] Carrie Davis, Ross Greenberg, the suits at HBO at that time.

[853] Mark Tafford, I said, we're going to Philadelphia from New York, then Miami and then San Juan.

[854] Promotional tour.

[855] I anticipate the bullshit, thinking I'm going to play second because Tito has much fan -based in me and the Latin market is huge, which, okay, I know that, but still, I'm not surrendering.

[856] You're still the champion.

[857] And I'm Bernard Hopkins.

[858] If y 'all don't respect me when we go to this next city, because I threw the flag down in New York City, there's a park right next door across the street from HBO buildings in Manhattan.

[859] Can't mention the name right now.

[860] I can't mention the name.

[861] remember the name, but it's there.

[862] And we had the press conference there.

[863] The flag went down to New York first.

[864] They quieted it up real quick because they didn't want it to spread like it already did.

[865] But it was already out through some reporters that was there.

[866] That was the first stop, New York City, and they didn't respect me. And I said to them, if we're going to do these next cities, and y 'all don't worry about me, y 'all you're not being conscious of this flag going down again in respect that i have 11 defenses this is my division tito's coming up to my division to make history you're going to respect me i'm going to be first and i'm going to be last through this tour that we're going to do i'm not going to play second behind you're trying to win the middle battle before it starts I'm not putting them up there like that.

[867] Y 'all can do it, but you ain't going to do it in front of me. It's going to be a problem.

[868] And we can do this press conference.

[869] We can go to Philly and we can go to Miami and we can go to San Juan.

[870] I know it just like it happened yesterday.

[871] I said, but one thing for sure, I'm not going to apologize because that's what they wanted me to do.

[872] Where I come from, you don't punch a man or take his money until you say sorry the next day.

[873] You don't do that.

[874] You take it and you stand on it.

[875] And if you see him again, you take it again.

[876] I said, I'm not going to apologize.

[877] Y 'all can wait, we can go if I want to go.

[878] If four of my people don't want to go because they got to take care of their dog or they got to appointment at the doctors that I ain't hear about until that happened, let me know on my side anybody need to go.

[879] You know, cup man, my train, you know, anybody, if anybody will worry about going to the next three cities, then let me know.

[880] Oh, okay.

[881] I wouldn't apologize.

[882] I said, okay.

[883] they're going crazy in San Juan.

[884] Let me know before I get there, Bernard, you know, just going to have security.

[885] They're going to have, okay, you had the Puerto Rican police watching a guy that's through the flag down in New York.

[886] So we get to Philadelphia.

[887] The press conference was smooth.

[888] We had a peace treaty in New York that nobody would talk about it.

[889] We'd be not going to bring it up, even if the reporters bring it up.

[890] Cool, okay.

[891] Tito's on the same.

[892] Okay.

[893] Everybody, everything we're fine.

[894] Philly, fine.

[895] We put his ass, we skated across through the ass.

[896] Miami, fine.

[897] Of course, people ask it, though.

[898] This concentration on the fights.

[899] We're good, September 29th, you know, 9 -11.

[900] We're all together, ride, right, right, right, you know, against the whole world's been churned up.

[901] It's the first big event in two weeks after 9 -11.

[902] My experience was there.

[903] Film everything.

[904] That's attached to my legacy.

[905] We get to Miami.

[906] He ain't get heated, but, you know, people got big Latin community down there.

[907] You got, you know, kind of feisty, I would say.

[908] We get the same one.

[909] Roberto Coliseum.

[910] That year, Satcho Page, I heard a note about Roberto, you know, baseball player.

[911] Stadium is packed, pet rally.

[912] Tito Trinidad.

[913] Their state police, Stoneface.

[914] Dave, I know.

[915] Look, just point, go that way.

[916] Okay.

[917] I know I'm an enemy's land I'm playing chess not checkers and I know how to move my pieces so I'll go down okay we gotta go that way we're at the airport San Juan all the the people that was was there working was it flagged me no Bobby Bobby flag they give me so we're walking everybody going one way we get to Roberto Coliseum Motorcade press conference starts, uh, seven, eight minutes went right in, packed.

[918] They get, you know, you can walk right in, fan, whatever.

[919] So that was the intimidation plur they was trying to do on me. I understood him saying why away from home.

[920] I'm outnumbered, right?

[921] They got to call in certain names, you know, far as the show and HBO got up there and spoke.

[922] This is a historic boom -a -boom.

[923] So we got through that, and it's time for the fighters.

[924] I got up there, said what I said.

[925] They did my famous throat -slashing.

[926] Decks, heads coming off.

[927] Then Tito got up there.

[928] He said a couple of words and banged down.

[929] When you threw my flag, he broke the treaty.

[930] So now I went into my act.

[931] but serious when you threw my flag in Spanish they were crazy they started throwing magazine reporters they taking pictures they're looking at so I it seemed like everybody in their bleachers was coming we ducking books magazines now it's starting to get little pushy pushy so Don came in the middle Trinidad got away from the podium Don, like today, we take the fighter's hands, hey, the big fight's going to happen Don waving the flag before he'd done this handraising, which he didn't get a chance to do, rather, before he attempted to do it.

[932] He's waving the flag, and this is on video, he's waving the flag.

[933] Tito broke the treaty, he's supposed to say nothing, but he's home, right?

[934] I got to counter that I got to counter that I got to do something so risky that it's going to I hope be world news Don was fighting me not to get I grabbed the flag from his hand we tussled three four minutes three seconds excuse me and literally for a second was quiet when that flag hit that ground it is right here Don telling me back up I'm pointing my finger at Tito.

[935] I snatched the flag out of Don's hand.

[936] His eyes opened up.

[937] Everything is when the fans from the front was already coming down.

[938] That's why my guys, Jolair, was saying, come on, let's go.

[939] So they was taking me up to the balcony where I had to jump down in between the bleachers.

[940] Like, I had to get down to the dugout, basically, to get free, to get away.

[941] Because they was coming up.

[942] They was taking me up because they was coming past the reporters.

[943] They was coming from to get me going up.

[944] We couldn't do nothing but go up.

[945] And the only way to get down was to jump down like the dugout that you go through.

[946] And this is after you threw the flag down?

[947] Of course.

[948] The flag went down.

[949] When the flag went down, they were just...

[950] They were just coming.

[951] And somebody hitting me there, whoever the guy was.

[952] Naze Richardson is behind me with the Kofi, Sharif, all my guys, two of my guys, the rest of the people just hit me on my back and throwing things at me. So they're just trying to now actually get away from the crowd that's coming up.

[953] Where I'm going, I don't know, and I jumped down at that, the opening.

[954] And that's when the sheriff or the police said, look, that way.

[955] He wasn't helped.

[956] So we found a room Locked ourselves in the room Holding the door Now we're trying to lock the door But the door is like a heart move They're pushing the door We're holding the door We gotta hold this door like this Anybody that remember that moment After they hear this podcast It rained Look we all know how the tropical storms come When you over there in the islands it rained so hard around the time that we needed to get out of there and get straight to the airport, which they took as motorcade, cops on both sides, with fans and cars riding on the side and behind us.

[957] It was like 95 on the East Coast.

[958] It was like I -10 crossing west coast to the East Coast.

[959] They was on our ass going to the airport.

[960] That moment, that moment, that I got on that airport got to the airport and got on that plane that moment in the weeks to come before September 29th 2001 Tito had to train from my perspective and I said this leading up to the fight when I had interviews and mentioned it because the flag was brought up of course in the riot that I caused an instigate it.

[961] Tito had to hit that bag with that thought of hitting me. He had to train and run.

[962] He had to be reminded because he always stayed in San Juan in train.

[963] He rarely went to camp if he ever went to camp the train.

[964] He stayed in San Juan.

[965] He's their hero even to the day.

[966] And Tito had to hear something from whether his siblings, cousins, uncles, next door near.

[967] Whoever, wherever he was at for training camp in San Juan, someone was reminding him.

[968] The name that they was calling me is Diablo.

[969] They was calling me all kinds of stuff, and I wore it like a badge of honor because I wanted to send a message.

[970] And I wanted him to go through those four or five weeks left, because of 9 -11, they rebooted to the 29th, I wanted him to think about me every time he's preparing for that fight.

[971] Because someone's going to remind him, even if he's a guy that he's getting groceries from.

[972] And I wanted him to think about what I did, what I did and what he has to do.

[973] So now taking that strategy of art of war, because I want to fight a guy that's mad at me, You're not a guy that trained and plan and got a skill set of how to beat me. Give me that angry man every day.

[974] I love the angry guy because he's going on with emotionless, and I'm going off of intellect and boxing.

[975] Business the same way.

[976] If you can get him mad, you can get him done.

[977] The intellect, the strategy, you're trying to hit me and knock me out every time.

[978] The risk is always, if I get hit, I'm done.

[979] But I take that because I bank on what?

[980] Defense makes a good offense.

[981] A defense make a good offense.

[982] A good defense is a good offense because of what?

[983] You have to earn everything you get when you hit Bernard Hopkins, the execution of the alien, B -Hop.

[984] Three brands in three decades.

[985] three brands in three decades I can tell you a story about all these brands I told you about the executioner I told you the alien kept asking questions reporters every time I was fighting in past 40s why are you doing this?

[986] We know you got your first dollar we know you live right we know you're doing this they got tired of seeing me not me winning they got tired of me hanging around and they started asking questions I said because I'm a fucking alien and I instructed my guy Sharif I said Sharif Go get some Halloween It's almost like the beginning of September There get some green mat I'm telling you I'm more than something y 'all Get some green what would they say What was your camp say?

[987] It was looking like I was crazy It's the fucking guy's crazy What's crazy is your whole career You'd come in with the executioner's mask on The executioner got retired Nah that was done Listen Look at the math The mask came upon, the mask, the alien was born because of continue to be asked questions and boxing.

[988] It's the only sport.

[989] We see football.

[990] I mean, everybody, Brady, Brady, and Brady did a hell of a job.

[991] And still, listen, I know how hard is to compete and continue to do it.

[992] But it wasn't that as hard as for me because I knew what I needed to do.

[993] and I knew my body wasn't the age that my birth certificate says.

[994] My lifestyle was my age.

[995] Ooh.

[996] Ooh.

[997] My lifestyle was my age, not that birth certificate.

[998] And if you think that's just talking, then look at me. Look at me now.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] I'm four pounds over my fighting weight and two of that is water.

[1001] You got to give me two for just being water weight.

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] How do you not fight over six years and you four pounds over 175 your last fight.

[1004] That's insane.

[1005] I'm a fucking alien.

[1006] I'm an alien.

[1007] How did you learn to eat correctly?

[1008] What did you, like, what was your diet like?

[1009] I didn't have a diet.

[1010] I don't believe in diet.

[1011] The diet is commercialism.

[1012] I believe in lifestyle.

[1013] I believe in lifestyle.

[1014] Eat to live, not to die.

[1015] It's in the teachings.

[1016] which I represent.

[1017] It's in the teachings.

[1018] Eat to live, not to die.

[1019] You are what you eat.

[1020] If you eat like a pig, then to me, that's who you are.

[1021] Do you have their right to do that?

[1022] Absolutely.

[1023] But if you come to me and you ask me for advice, which I get all the time, from people I know and some people I don't know, you expect that people I know should know that my consistency and it's just who I am I'm not a late nighter I push myself to get rest early when I'm doing fights in different time zone as I leave here I'm headed to Vegas to do what a fight under Golden Boy Promotion so I know how to take that same to relate on the questions that you just asked me I know how to take those moments of rest I know how to take those moments of being active I know to take those moments on how to take care of myself like I'm fighting but I'm not anymore physically this is a different type of resume for me to do so I have to go ahead and do what keep my mind straight answers and questions well questions is coming from everybody is looking how you answer it to see if they can fill something in that gave them information.

[1024] You know, I look at some of the politicians and I say sometimes they ask some questions just to give you a lot but nothing.

[1025] Mm -hmm.

[1026] Right?

[1027] Yeah.

[1028] In boxing, there's a small percentage that legitimately ask you a question because they don't know.

[1029] And then most of the time, You've got to at least be under the impression that they're trying to connect something that they already know.

[1030] For instance, hey, Bernard, what do you think about Ryan Garcia Sue and Golden Boy?

[1031] Oh, Bernard, what do you think about Oscar's not telling the truth about something?

[1032] My head is always on a swivel, on the block.

[1033] but having your head on the swivel in this perspective is not looking because they see me looking you know who they are when you're not when they know you're not looking or they think you're not looking put it that way that's who they really are not when they're in your face most of the time not when they're in your presence but when they know that you or they think that you're not paying attention that's who they really are I'm watching them not even looking at them D block I know it's on my right right here in this studio I know what's on my left.

[1034] Obviously, I came in and I scanned it, but right now I know was to the right and the left, but I don't know what's in backing me. So I constantly, constantly put those messages out there when it's needed because they no longer can say I'm the paranoid when they used to say I was boxing to try to justify that I'm speaking the truth.

[1035] But if they get convinced most, who listen what they fed and move out on what they fed, whether there's newspaper, TV, I don't even watch TV no more.

[1036] I'll be living in another country if I did.

[1037] Then the advantage is to them, not to you.

[1038] But once you start doing something that boxing business people don't like, why you think you're seeing those fighters having nervous breakdowns in the rain crying, heavyweight contender, having breakdowns on the side, of the ring, because there today, people that talks about Don King, and he all, what I know, he is, I have testimony to that.

[1039] You ain't got to convince me, but he ain't the only Don King out there of personality and track record that some might think that there's only one mind and one entity that did an extraordinary job, whether you like it or not.

[1040] They came from, just think about Don King's history.

[1041] Here's a guy a few hours from New York, I mean of Philadelphia, excuse me, Cleveland, take the system, the law, and broke some, and had that long, 54.

[1042] 40 plus something years to do with the rules that was set way before him and use it the way he's done for so many years.

[1043] Oh, Bernard, you shine like your patron.

[1044] Nah, I'm just telling you he done something that's normally not done for a period of time from a culture that looks like me. That's my point.

[1045] That's extraordinary.

[1046] normally it's the mob from Vegas all the way to Boston Philadelphia and every city in the state I mean state in the United States to take those openings and opportunities to have a long extended decades of a run like that now I know he was in his own 100 % boss but you get to the point we have a run like him so long you get to pay your way out of paying somebody the first to start off I'm pretty sure the Mohammed Ali's sunny listening I'm pretty sure the 80s early 80s the 70s I'm pretty sure they had the guys the suit and tie sitting there I still think that Sunday Liston could have got up from the right hand from Muhammad Ali.

[1047] Yeah.

[1048] That seemed like he was acting.

[1049] That's Lewiston, Maine, right?

[1050] Correct.

[1051] Yeah.

[1052] That seemed like the fix was in.

[1053] And you talk about the fight with Numanchenko.

[1054] You talk about the Haney fight that I'm pretty sure you see the same way I'll see who won that fight.

[1055] And other fights, and other maybe one or two more that was kind of bizarre, right?

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] In the last few months.

[1058] Yeah.

[1059] And we briefly talked about it and we got on something else, which how me and your mind I think works.

[1060] I've been here for a couple of hours now.

[1061] I got to understand how this thing is working out in the conversation of corruption, period, period.

[1062] that need to be brought to the first, the forefront.

[1063] They need to have a light flashed on the roaches.

[1064] And then they'll try to scatter and just got to crush them before they get to their destination of retreat.

[1065] Yeah, this is a long about conversation that we got into corruption.

[1066] But what I wanted to bring it back to was like you were saying it was your lifestyle you're saying it was it was your discipline but it was you put in your body what you needed to survive and thrive eat to live not to die you didn't you didn't fuck around you didn't drink you didn't smoke you didn't party you always got your sleep don't eat bad food yeah don't mess with sugar I read everything I read everything you read books on nutrition I read books everything I read the back of the label of the stuff that I was purchasing um I take my Malties, I never got into, I don't even like needles, bet alone, not alone shots.

[1067] B -12, I take B -12s.

[1068] I used to get the B -12 shots for energy to, to, you're losing weight.

[1069] Whether there's water weight or not, you get drained.

[1070] I got two and a half, three percent body fat.

[1071] Right.

[1072] Right, probably up to a three now, right?

[1073] So the sponge gets to the point where it is what it is.

[1074] Now you're burning muscles.

[1075] And bingo.

[1076] Right.

[1077] Now you're losing nutrients.

[1078] You were one of the first fighters that I ever heard that it was eating organic.

[1079] Yes.

[1080] And I was like, oh.

[1081] To the day.

[1082] Yeah.

[1083] As an ex -fighter said, again, these things make me feel good.

[1084] And these things, listen, I know how hard I need to work when I need to work.

[1085] I know when I need to just blow some dust off of my body a little bit just to get a little warmed up.

[1086] So every day I'm not going hard.

[1087] To the day, I'm not going hard.

[1088] I don't hit the bag.

[1089] I ain't the back since I retired.

[1090] I haven't been in a boxing gym for what?

[1091] Myself is waste to keep the muscle that we lose at a certain age, every two years, a year and a half, you lose certain percentage of muscle.

[1092] I'm just trying to keep that debt.

[1093] I'm a little good in my suits.

[1094] You understand?

[1095] What do you do now for working out?

[1096] Well, I do some running twice a week.

[1097] I do a long distance run, three and a half, four miles, depending on how my crew can hang in.

[1098] or how I feel but three tops I do 880s I do running blow it out 880s I used to do that with Mackie Shostone from shout out to Mackey Shilstone from New Orleans he worked with a couple of greats even to tennis so Mackie taught me a lot he let my guy video eight weeks training in New Orleans he worked with Holyfield correct he worked with Beau Riddick Bo he worked with Roy Jones Jones Jr. wound up to heavyweight to fight John Ruiz.

[1099] He worked with Dowell Strawberry, the Hall of Famer, baseball player.

[1100] And he was one of the first guys to do, like, a lot of unconventional training.

[1101] He worked with me. Yes.

[1102] He worked with me to build me up from 160 to 75 to the two -way classes we talked about.

[1103] So, and he's still got to be in his mid -70s now.

[1104] And great shape.

[1105] I believe he's still in New Orleans.

[1106] We made history together.

[1107] And one thing he did.

[1108] I had a god.

[1109] I don't have noun, but his job was in my camp was to film everything, whether we have an off day, which we do on Sundays, right?

[1110] Some Saturdays if I'm peeking, if my training boyfish will see me sparring, he said, well, do we just did nine rounds?

[1111] He ain't even breathing any sharp on the seventh or eighth and ninth.

[1112] We got to take a break, take two days off.

[1113] So we have our sparring partners fighting.

[1114] So I used to have a guy named Limwood.

[1115] he was basically like I camp entertainment heavy guy like to eat he carries the camera camera quarter this big and he filmed the off days the sparring the training that Mackey gave me the permission to use everything Mackey was building me up to be quick just like a middle weight don't lose none of that but have the structure of a light heavy weight slash cruiser weight which at that time was 190 and it's 200.

[1116] Mackie Shorestone taught me above and beyond from a science and from his view to add on to mine.

[1117] And today, I pass that on to young fighters who ask or show them the video.

[1118] Bingo.

[1119] Here it is right here.

[1120] Different things he did.

[1121] Did a lot of unconventional stuff.

[1122] Unconventional stuff.

[1123] And you might look at it and say, what this guy's do a boxer?

[1124] You don't punch you like that in the ring, but the explosiveness that he was telling me moments of my explosiveness, like down, jumping off that and jumping on that, has a lot to do with being in the ring when you're moving.

[1125] And a lot of do when you, like that counter right there, that counter right hand.

[1126] They count of right hand.

[1127] These are the things that he used to be the X -15, because, you know, he got that service mentality, and he's telling you about the, you know, the bombs, and they come in and they come.

[1128] how you have to get in that mentality of being at war.

[1129] Like the off days on a Sunday, Mack used to come to Big Bear, where I was standing at Oscar's facility at the time.

[1130] Golden Boy was promoting the fight, and he would come and he would say, look, I'm a fly out there.

[1131] We're going to go to the base, and we're going to be going to get in some, number of, they can't remember was one of them fire fighting planes.

[1132] He did the same thing in Roy Jones Jr. Me and Roy got in the Hall of Fame at the same time two years ago.

[1133] So he has the same experience.

[1134] We talked about it.

[1135] Mackie taught me the, you said, the unconditional way of trainer coming in, showing you, building you up, maybe doing this, doing that, but he took it to a sort of like a mental you're at war, you have to be certain ways at a certain time in the fight, you might get cut, you might get in survival mode, but not show that you're surviving.

[1136] How do you fight when you're tired?

[1137] How do you fight when you're tired?

[1138] Do you fight to survive means you fight just to keep the guy off you because you don't want him to hit you no more?

[1139] That's fighting to survive.

[1140] or do you learn how to survive and still kick ass?

[1141] I learn to do that.

[1142] When you see inside, I was brutal inside with my opponents.

[1143] I'll beat him and hit him every way they can imagine to break him down.

[1144] They call it, as the fighter would say, I filed him, or he hit me here, he hit me there.

[1145] Old school, old school, if the referee is in the ring and we're fighting, we are fighting.

[1146] Well, it's boxing.

[1147] No, we are fighting.

[1148] When you fight, they set the rules.

[1149] You make the rules when you fight.

[1150] And if the referees sleep at the wheel and the referee don't see that you complaining about something.

[1151] that he didn't see, then that's on you.

[1152] Because the same thing I do to you, you can do to me. So once you start telling the referee that I did something to you, I already got your heart now.

[1153] You want help.

[1154] See, Joe, we're always going back then, which you eat, which you don't eat, you look great, which is a secret.

[1155] I don't have a secret.

[1156] Let's your diet.

[1157] No, it's not that dies as a lifestyle.

[1158] I'm going to go back to this, especially in sports.

[1159] Any sports.

[1160] This right here is so important.

[1161] The mind.

[1162] I was so and still wrapped up into the mental because this controls everything.

[1163] This controls this.

[1164] This body doesn't control this.

[1165] They used to call weightlifting guys airheaded because they see this and they're walking around but where's the strategy book?

[1166] Where's the playbook?

[1167] You don't have none.

[1168] You just bring in a sawed -off shotgun to a fight.

[1169] And I'm coming with multiple opportunities to get you out of here in sports.

[1170] Now, if you hit me, you hit me. I know that's the risk.

[1171] But I got a better chance when I'm getting you.

[1172] And I got more opportunities.

[1173] how I get you.

[1174] That is important to me. So when you talk about your overall biological age, how much of it do you think has to do, not just with the lifestyle, but with being defensively responsible?

[1175] Because you never really took beatings in your career.

[1176] You had good fights, but there was no beatings.

[1177] No. You were always defensively responsible.

[1178] Yes, because I want to be able to have life after boxing.

[1179] And you maintain that discipline while you're fighting, the heat of a battle.

[1180] I maintain that discipline to not overreact and get excited even when I'm the hunter or being hunted.

[1181] Even if you look at that photo, that video that just showed, if you land in that right hand, your chin is tucked.

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] You're always tucked.

[1184] Yeah.

[1185] And that habit, I was taught that.

[1186] How was I taught that?

[1187] in prison everybody wanted to see their work they call it admiring your work you up chin up and you you're looking all good even hitting the bag the way you hit the bag is the way you're going to hit your opponent your stance has a lot to do whatever you do outside the ring you're going to do in the ring did you keep something under your chin like a tennis ball a tennis ball not only do you keep it under your chin when you're hitting the bag the bag don't have arms you got to visualize that bag got arms But try doing it when you got a guy that can fight at least 60, 70 % to give you some good work.

[1188] And you got to have that.

[1189] And every time you drop it, you got to do an extra round.

[1190] I got some rounds in.

[1191] Brother Nazim, brother Nazim, brother Nazim, brother, you seen in the yellow shirt with the Koufee, but I'm correct.

[1192] Give me one more soldier.

[1193] Give me one more round.

[1194] All right.

[1195] Because, you know, I ain't going to say I ain't got it.

[1196] Right.

[1197] I put the ball under my, and we're rumbling.

[1198] Now, it don't mean the guy knocked the ball out.

[1199] It's possible, but you let it go.

[1200] Right.

[1201] And I'm punching and ducking and getting hit, but that ball better be there on the bell ring.

[1202] Hmm.

[1203] Oh, that's so hard.

[1204] How many guys train like that?

[1205] I don't, I haven't, I passed it on.

[1206] I passed it on.

[1207] I mentioned it.

[1208] I passed it on the tennis ball We call it the tennis ball Ryan Garcia could use that advice A lot of times he'll stand straight up It's too late Yeah Too late?

[1209] Yeah I know he says young guys too late Why is too late I believe Because of The arrogance Of saying what you need to do, knowing what you need to do, and doing what you need to do, and be consistent about it is a whole other conversation.

[1210] So either they do that or they don't, and if they don't, they're never going to make it all the way.

[1211] Anybody they fight that recognize it and discipline to wait to that time come and be real about it will be victorious.

[1212] This doesn't say that championship of the world will escape him or he will never achieve that.

[1213] Absolutely, he will.

[1214] In this error, especially, no disrespect.

[1215] But in the same token, bad habits or a bad habit one day will kill you.

[1216] I didn't need or kill your career.

[1217] I didn't need to be burnt four or five times once I got of knowledge that I didn't like that.

[1218] I went through all the juvenile system in Pennsylvania, then state and 17.

[1219] And I said that because once I got a taste and understood my value and understood what I need to do to be successful, now I'm here.

[1220] I mean, it's saying dream talking.

[1221] Right.

[1222] This getting up, putting that work in.

[1223] Understand that everybody ain't going to be for you.

[1224] And everybody ain't against you.

[1225] But how you get the better of both, you let the adversaries of the other side.

[1226] You let the opinions negative or not.

[1227] You have a contest amongst those who say, why you want to do that it's impossible no that can't happen you're going to a two -way class man you're too old you're still fighting but about congratulations that I want to so I look at all these things and reflection some time and I say to myself I'm so glad I didn't take people advice but it's just so amazing that you didn't listen to anybody and it almost like it's steeled your resolve because when they were telling you you were too old for the Kelly Pavlik fight and you knocked him out and then you continue to fight at a world -class level after that it's like he's not even done yet because everyone else i mean if we go back to some great fighters that when they you know i was always a big uh boxing fan like way way back into the 80s when those guys hit 34 35 36 over 37 the clan is coming basically over and some of them even before that you know Some of them, you know, you just expected to see the decline and the decline with you never came.

[1228] Never.

[1229] Never.

[1230] Never came.

[1231] And even in your last fight, like when you fought Joe Smith, when you went through the ropes.

[1232] Who's fighting this Saturday?

[1233] Yeah, he's fighting Saturday.

[1234] Fighting Zoto, that's what I'm going out to promote.

[1235] That's going through the ropes like that, scare the shit out of me. Because, like, what was below those ropes?

[1236] Was that just cement?

[1237] Do you just fall right on to cement?

[1238] Yes.

[1239] What the fuck was going on there?

[1240] That they didn't protect the fighters?

[1241] more.

[1242] One of the things of safety that has been elevated to a level than 20 years ago but to me there's more need to be done I'm not the only fighter either got knocked out of the ring or fell out of the ring but it should be padding across that ring 100%.

[1243] Even wrestlers that wrestle in college and sports professional wrestling they have a patent that in case someone goes through the ropes.

[1244] That can take some of the shock of the damage.

[1245] Yes.

[1246] God damn.

[1247] Yeah.

[1248] It looked terrified.

[1249] And, you know, you always flirt with falling out that ring.

[1250] You couple of feet up in the ring.

[1251] Yeah.

[1252] You know, you can paralyse yourself.

[1253] You can chip something.

[1254] You can, you know, you can die.

[1255] You can die.

[1256] Anything can happen.

[1257] I was very fortunate.

[1258] Stayed in the hospital to the next month.

[1259] morning did x -rays obviously when i left um la um the fight was at the form uh i uh got checked out by my personal doctor and um was was very very fortunate um to be uh um you know in great shape after that but but but but again i'm not expecting everything to be checked in the check box of A plus A plus A plus A plus, but little, like little big important things.

[1260] Little thing is A, I know y 'all see, it's a floor, cement floor.

[1261] You hit that, your head going to crack like a coconut.

[1262] Right.

[1263] So, again, to me, majority of the people that surround boxing is not around for boxers itself.

[1264] They're around for money.

[1265] Correct.

[1266] And clout.

[1267] And clout.

[1268] When you fell through those ropes, man, it scared this shit out of me. Because I was watching the way you fell.

[1269] I'm like, damn, did he just land on his head on the concrete?

[1270] Backwards, too.

[1271] Yeah, backwards, right through the ropes.

[1272] And the ropes seemed loose.

[1273] They were in tight.

[1274] They was loose enough to actually, you can see the stretch of the rope where I'll try to grab it.

[1275] I'll try to say I'll try to grab it with the right hand.

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] The fact that you fell that way, I mean, that is.

[1278] fucking crazy.

[1279] I mean, that is a crazy way to fall through the ropes.

[1280] See, that's the shot I took, and I'm back up, I backed up, and I'm getting pushed back and boom.

[1281] And look at the guy.

[1282] He just rolled out of the way.

[1283] He got out of the way, and let you fall right on your head.

[1284] And that was the big thing, too.

[1285] And that's like a four -foot drop.

[1286] That's a big drop.

[1287] I'll say five, five to four, yeah.

[1288] But if you look at, if you look at where how the guy just stepped away, didn't even put his hand up.

[1289] Watch this.

[1290] That guy could have caught you?

[1291] Well, of course, look, he ran.

[1292] Did you ever see that guy again?

[1293] No. What the fuck, dude?

[1294] Wherever you are.

[1295] I'm not saying he's not around.

[1296] Wherever he is.

[1297] What the fuck.

[1298] I don't even know what he looked like.

[1299] How do you not catch Bernard Hopkins?

[1300] But now, since you show that, he's not going to even come into fights anymore probably.

[1301] He shouldn't come to fights.

[1302] But he got out of the way.

[1303] Yeah, it's crazy.

[1304] Crazy.

[1305] He could have saved you.

[1306] Yes.

[1307] From falling.

[1308] Yeah, could have saved the back of your head.

[1309] Yeah.

[1310] And possibly the fight would have went on.

[1311] because I would have got back in the ring.

[1312] Yeah.

[1313] Did you know going into that fight that was going to be your last fight?

[1314] No. You were 51?

[1315] 51.

[1316] 51.

[1317] I mentioned that it was going to be my last fight.

[1318] But I didn't know because if I would have got past Joe Smith, what I couldn't tell you right away that an opportunity of, history would have made me think about the next and then got out.

[1319] Right.

[1320] But it was promoted as your last fight.

[1321] Correct.

[1322] Right.

[1323] And my family, people around me, we was all locked in on the last historic fight of my career with Joe Smith, who I never even to that moment, underestimate him.

[1324] knew he was young strong big a big light heavy weight right I'm not a big you look at me right now I'm not a big light heavy weight but I started at light heavy weight in my career if you look at my record in the weight I melt down in 60 because that's what my train and said you go on you're a middle weight look you got a little fat you've been in prison that's water weight you're going to eat better you're going to run better atmosphere is better I start slimming down.

[1325] Oh, you're right.

[1326] Middleweight it is.

[1327] So I melt down.

[1328] I did the opposite of the rules.

[1329] I melt down to 60.

[1330] Normally, you come up, two -weight classes to be in the weight division because you grow into that weight or you eat your way into that weight.

[1331] That moment to outside of the family was a moment just say that that but we know as fighters we know when it's time did you i ran i ran out of things to do far as history making because even though i wanted to do something that i'll beat that you know winning like i've been successful most of the time that day to be great as real And what's different, what was I thinking or what was different that night until it happened, until it happened.

[1332] And that's the difference.

[1333] Because you don't count yourself out until you're out.

[1334] And then I looked at it as time went on.

[1335] You and I have been having a conversation for a few hours now.

[1336] Like I got plenty of energy for a 58 -year -old, right?

[1337] Yeah.

[1338] with three decades under my belt of boxing, right?

[1339] Yeah.

[1340] It doesn't seem like I'm throwing down anytime soon, right?

[1341] No. I really sat home weeks after the fight was over with.

[1342] And steady taking, because, you know, the opportunity of the opportunity in this, seen an opportunity to try to make that fight my life at the end.

[1343] I said to them, some industry or.

[1344] the atmosphere out there that had one of the fruit tans to throw dirt on my grave of legacy I said y 'all forgot something or y 'all want to forget but I'm not going to let you forget if you look at my life up to now in boxing and starting off before I became a champion in boxing I said, I lost my first fight as a pro.

[1345] I lost my last fight as a pro.

[1346] Everything in the middle is a story, motivational, never give up story.

[1347] But you should be worried about what I do next, because the way I started shows ain't the way I'm in.

[1348] So in this third or fourth chapter of my life, at a young 58, fast approaching 59, the way I started shows that my character doesn't say I'll submit to the way it's going to play out or end.

[1349] So now the fight is different.

[1350] The fight isn't in the ring physically.

[1351] The fight is around a powerful, controlling, and that's bomb.

[1352] boxing attitude when things blunt in your face that the fight I got down is the fight of Satchell Page and his error in baseball.

[1353] The fight I have known is the fight that Jim Brown, Mohammed Ali, Bill Russell and a lot of the greats at that time stood up when they needed to stand up at that moment for that cause.

[1354] I'll put them on notice before I'm putting them on notice again just because it's fresh that they're going to hear it again.

[1355] that this fight is different than a fight that got me here.

[1356] This fight is about here, discipline of patience, knowing how to use and strategize your chest board and the pieces that's on that board.

[1357] If they're willing to do what's been done for so many centuries, all over up to now, Then the only one thing I needed more for this fight is my health and my memory.

[1358] They better hope I keep it.

[1359] And that's the warning.

[1360] The warning is that I am the satchel page of this error.

[1361] I'm gunning for that legacy.

[1362] I'm the Mohammed Ali when he spoke of his error for things that he spoke.

[1363] They're calm never called me a, nigger.

[1364] he said that in the 60s in this country Well that was one of the reasons why he was so important culturally And that's why my idol other than Marvin Hagler When I say idol I'm talking about idol and not idowing him as my God I don't him as an example Right That there are some in any aspects of life That that will risk it all And those who listen and hear this And have already said it I've done.

[1365] Listen, if it was $50 to $100 million made in my career to play the game and eventually they'll trick me out of it later, that was left on the table because of this.

[1366] Not because of the emotions, because of this and because of this and because of that.

[1367] Because once I understood, I want to keep my mouth closed, I say, oh, this is how it is.

[1368] But I needed power before I speak.

[1369] I needed to be world champion.

[1370] And my first world championship fight that we didn't talk about was Roy Jones Jr. in 1993, RFK Stadium.

[1371] I told you about the memory.

[1372] Under the Riddick Bow, the heavyweight champion fighting Jesse Ferguson.

[1373] He was the main event.

[1374] I was the co -man.

[1375] Roy was the house fighter of HBO, multi -million dollar contract.

[1376] I was known as the guy from Philadelphia, tough, can give some work.

[1377] From the penitentiary, you know, you got to have a villain and you got to have the nice guy.

[1378] And Roy gave me a lesson, a lesson of what?

[1379] I wasn't ready.

[1380] Boy, when I got that opportunity a year or two, a year and a half later, the IBF, same title vacant by Roy Jones.

[1381] Jr. Roy went up to 168, the next weight up.

[1382] I'm in line as the number one, number two contender.

[1383] I fight in Segundo Mercado in Quito, Ecuador.

[1384] He can push that fight up here.

[1385] See the first fight with Segundo Mercado, which means second in Spanish.

[1386] I called him second at the press conference.

[1387] You will never beat me. I'm first.

[1388] You're second.

[1389] Segundo.

[1390] Your mother knew you was going to be second all your life.

[1391] So we go to Quito.

[1392] hostile environment.

[1393] Kito at that time was at war, conflict, with Peru.

[1394] But I was sold out by a promoter to get more money to bring me there to fight an Ecuadorian in Ecuador.

[1395] Joe, I get knocked down two times, got up, fought my way back up, finished the fight.

[1396] here I'm in Ecuador being sold out by a promoter I get to Ecuador 11 plus thousand feet above sea level probably hard than Denver Colorado couldn't breathe the first second round after I exhaust myself to the max early on and fought my way with Segunda Mercado for the first fight we had and get a drawer in Ecuador fighting the Ecuadorian I take it.

[1397] I won the fight.

[1398] They would have killed me. That's what the rumor was.

[1399] If you would have got that decision in Ecuador, even though I fought my way back from 7 to 12, almost had them out, if you look at the video.

[1400] In a very hostile environment, if they would have gave me that fight, we wouldn't have left Ecuador.

[1401] So they call it a draw.

[1402] The IBF mandated that the fight must happen in 120 days.

[1403] They had to get the work right away, but the energy was different than going to Ecuador.

[1404] Don King wasn't sure of Segundo beating me in America if he couldn't beat me in his hometown in Ecuador.

[1405] So the promotion is kind of fruggy.

[1406] But we went through the process, and I became champion in Ecuador, I mean, in America, in 95, knocking out Sugunda Mercardo and Landover, Maryland, and then defended that title for 12 years.

[1407] That was the first IBF title I had.

[1408] Yeah.

[1409] that IBF title based in New Jersey East Orange, New Jersey that IBF title was the title I had all the way up to the 20s in defense.

[1410] That was the first title and the politics and the confusion of boxing there's so many belts which makes it limited to be undisputed until unspruited today is being talked about more than ever now.

[1411] Did you watch the fight the other day?

[1412] Which one?

[1413] Canello and?

[1414] Yes.

[1415] Did you see they put the screen up, Bernard Hopkins, as the last or the reboot of the Undisputed, and then they had all other names.

[1416] And the Four Belt era, and the Full Belt, Four Belt era, my name is up there first.

[1417] Now, Showtime ain't, even though I've been on Showtime, more than I've been on HBO, but the politics ain't there.

[1418] for me because of the players they work with.

[1419] I get it.

[1420] But it was hard for them to try to cut that out.

[1421] They couldn't.

[1422] I sat home and I laughed.

[1423] I had laughed now.

[1424] I thought I had asses.

[1425] I laughed.

[1426] I said because I know for a fact that if they can take that name and share less light on Bernard Hopkins, then it was great.

[1427] And even though you didn't ask this, my case in point is this.

[1428] All the stuff I told you earlier.

[1429] What I just said now.

[1430] The Ryan Garcia and Tate fight, we was the second promoters.

[1431] They put up the bigger money, big fight.

[1432] It was a PBC, right?

[1433] Mm -hmm.

[1434] Card.

[1435] Al Heyman card.

[1436] I ain't afraid to say his name.

[1437] They, I try to oust me, you follow my, they try to, I'll put everything, I waited for about two weeks.

[1438] Strategy.

[1439] All the war.

[1440] Sun Tzu.

[1441] I waited.

[1442] You didn't ask, but on it, you let me talk.

[1443] They slayed us.

[1444] We didn't come to the dressing room.

[1445] You heard about that?

[1446] Oscar and them didn't come to Ryan's dressing room.

[1447] We abandoned him.

[1448] I don't know if you heard of him.

[1449] We opposed to abandon them.

[1450] We didn't lose.

[1451] We looked like dishbags, right?

[1452] We looked like scumbags.

[1453] He loses now to promoters, you know.

[1454] And if you got any other agenda, any other agenda from whatever you got it from or while you have it, this was your time now to show yourself.

[1455] So I waited, waited, waited, and credit to Joy, my assistant slash fiancé, she said, I got all the video, you don't know I was video on the corner of everything.

[1456] Why would he say y 'all didn't come?

[1457] So I said, you did what?

[1458] She said, I got video.

[1459] When he hugged you and he said, sorry to you that didn't work out.

[1460] and you was telling them that Oscar got a death threat and the bodyguards took them out?

[1461] She's video.

[1462] She didn't address her own video and both.

[1463] I said, you have it.

[1464] I said, sober to me. Because we get enslaved public opinion.

[1465] Right.

[1466] Oh, I still got footage.

[1467] I ain't even throw out yet.

[1468] She said, here they go.

[1469] So I looked at it.

[1470] I said, yo, I need this.

[1471] Let's take our time, take a deep breath.

[1472] Strategy over emotions.

[1473] intellect over emotions strategy over emotions that's put all it together take a deep breath i said first of all thank you right look for you know not now but a raise coming soon i say now you're good up with this instagram stuff i'm totally like i just come home from penitentiary i'm lost still still i can't keep up with it good my 12 year old son can but i good to not keep but i did not keep but i this I can't misspelling words and shit.

[1474] It depends on the here.

[1475] This is crazy.

[1476] But listen.

[1477] I said, listen.

[1478] We begin hammering the last two.

[1479] We just say, I know, I know.

[1480] And I'm, I can't.

[1481] So I say, look, you go with this Instagram.

[1482] Let's just break this up certain days.

[1483] And make it make sense, not just throw it out there.

[1484] We're going to, what do you?

[1485] So we, he said everything he needed to say.

[1486] Now we got to come.

[1487] What do you mean?

[1488] this corner what do you mean we was missing what do you mean we didn't show up at the press conference they wouldn't let me in the fucking ring if you go to my instagram you'll see they they they they no you can't they block me from getting the ring what they expected what they expected from me watch this move thank you producer great guy over there watch this move bernard can't come in the ring bernard can't come in the ring tom brown that's al haman's flunky right there He's a promoter license, and Al -Haman hides behind him.

[1489] So his name is Tom Brown.

[1490] Al -Hanahman hides beyond him, because by the Mohamed Ali Act that I stood up for, it doesn't cover advisors, it doesn't cover consultants.

[1491] So now those lawyers, because he has a Harvard law degree, Al -Haman, he hires promoters, especially Tom Brown, who come from the Goosons in the Denver, Colorado, known very well.

[1492] He's set next to me. He said, here, Joy and me. I switched seats with Joy because I told her, Tom Brown is the eyes and ears while we sit in there.

[1493] They had controls of the tickets.

[1494] They had control of the show because they were the leading promoters.

[1495] PBC.

[1496] So I was quiet ringside.

[1497] All the fighters from their side was behind me, so I was in their road.

[1498] That's the seats and sections they put me at.

[1499] Even Oscar was to my right.

[1500] They had me right near the corner churn buckle.

[1501] Because if you look at any golden boy fights, I'm always in the middle because we have control, and the fighters always look out.

[1502] They got trainers, don't look at me, but they do look.

[1503] Sometimes the fight mode come in and I can't help myself.

[1504] learn to be more subdued while I'm sitting, watching as the promoter.

[1505] So they had my seat where the churn buckle, the corner, correct.

[1506] So you couldn't see.

[1507] So, yes.

[1508] I watched for my seat, leaned to the right, which I had a slightly better view, but those moments of the Art of War this ain't complaining they was prepared but I was prepared too they knew I was coming they knew the energy I was bringing see I wasn't coming listen Oscar personality is not my personality that's the best where I can explain it to you if I see something I'm going to speak on what I see I'm not going to run and tell somebody what I can do and say myself To me, that's a man. They was prepared because we did business.

[1509] Before Al Heyman branched off to do his company, he took 80, 90 % of Golden Boy fighters because those fighters, including Flo and Mayweather, was under what?

[1510] Golden Boy.

[1511] So he took, per se, if you're the music business, he took his catalog and started it, PBC.

[1512] I didn't go.

[1513] It's some bad blood.

[1514] Because everybody knows the situation, even to the day.

[1515] Oscar definitely understands and know it.

[1516] I was in Nell in the coffin if they would have got me to leave based on a contract that they gave me to leave.

[1517] What was in it for me. And I seen that it was crowded over there at PBC.

[1518] And I still, even to the day, understand the process is always a risk.

[1519] But I'd rather be on this side, even with the baggage.

[1520] They wanted to predict our demise.

[1521] We're going to be in federal court in six months.

[1522] Oscar remind me all the time.

[1523] Remember they said this, partner.

[1524] They're not going to last six months.

[1525] He's going to see.

[1526] they came back door they thought trying to poison the waters so there's just a bunch of dirty business that goes along filthy dirty that's a good word filthy yeah so 20 plus years later a lot of things in changing in boxing ain't breaking news but a lot of people don't know a lot of baiting their words weren't already left HBO's gone yeah this is what I was leading to yeah it's a whole churn as you're aware of the churn you haven't been in Austin a year yet, have you?

[1527] Three years.

[1528] Three years, right?

[1529] Three years, right?

[1530] Yeah.

[1531] But it was a reason to change from there to here.

[1532] I assume.

[1533] Yeah.

[1534] Boxing is changing and have changed even more.

[1535] So one left for 40 plus years, HBO, correct?

[1536] Mm -hmm.

[1537] And you're being a boxing.

[1538] fan, I know they kind of heard it.

[1539] Yeah.

[1540] My prediction is that Showtime is finally ready to pack it in.

[1541] That's not good.

[1542] But it's not a death sentence for those who pour their bootstraps up.

[1543] And if you don't have no booth, find some.

[1544] Because this is a man -thinking game not checkers.

[1545] Do you think the future is in streaming?

[1546] Showtime will pack up boxing only.

[1547] I'll be surprised.

[1548] if they got another year left.

[1549] That's unfortunate because that leaves DeZone, that leaves ESPN Plus.

[1550] It's not as many options.

[1551] Now, and that's where the creative, creativity has to get in play now.

[1552] You say you are who you are?

[1553] This goes for everybody.

[1554] It's all, we all got blood on our hands and someone, hold up.

[1555] This is where the creativity now, kicks in.

[1556] You say who you are.

[1557] You're on the block now.

[1558] You say who you, okay, right, first while he's doing too much talk, so he ain't real.

[1559] You got to get tried right away.

[1560] This is the trying time now.

[1561] Let's see who now can sink a swim.

[1562] Golden Boy also.

[1563] All of us.

[1564] So now this separates the men from the fakes.

[1565] Now, if you've been fraud and, if you've been fraud and hiding behind and you had a time limit when you're going to exit and you prepare yourself, then that's one thing that should work good for that person that thinks that way.

[1566] There are fighters on the other side that got to pay every time they fight in any other entity.

[1567] Joe Rogan has a promotion boxing.

[1568] You got ten fighters on your side.

[1569] Just say I'm Golden Boy, I got fighters on my side.

[1570] You ain't seen because you hire somebody to do your business for you so you can hide back and hide behind the scenes, but you have knowledge of law so you know how to manipulate certain things.

[1571] So if you risk having a contract Monday, but knowing things can change as time go on, you want to tie your Campbell.

[1572] What do you mean?

[1573] Well, if the well runs dry, if that fighter goes and fight at another house, another promotion that you ain't no longer controlling, the fighters now are starting to look at the contract and say, I got to give up 35 percent.

[1574] I got to give up 40 percent of my purse, even though Barbara Hamm is doing a fight.

[1575] Golden Boy is doing a fight.

[1576] That's what promoters do.

[1577] Now you're realizing that at the wrong time, nine out of ten at the telling in your career, whether you're in your 30s, you mention it, the age normally 30, 30, 34, You normally pack it up ready to roll out.

[1578] Try to get a couple of pities here and there.

[1579] Yeah.

[1580] But there's a real bad taste in a lot of business people, TV, and also fighters that realizing everything was great.

[1581] You bought your car, your bailout, don't you got to upkeep.

[1582] You got to keep that lifestyle or you got to understand how to live different.

[1583] And that's the shock that they're seeing now, that they've been manipulated, bamboozled, and the only thing, which is not only, but the only thing that some would say to justify the dying kings of this era, they got paid, they got paid, you give ignorance money, they're going to be more ignorant than they was when you gave them money and what if they gave them money.

[1584] ain't going to be smart because you gave him money other than the business of boxing though how do you feel about the sport how do you feel about the sport today like the caliber of fighters I'm sure you you must be a fan of Terrence Crawford yes one of my favorite guys to watch phenomenal best switch hitters since Marvin has yes yes yes we tried to promote that fight and he had a choice like we all do and he chose to do what need to do and he was successful with it absolutely a technical, technical, serious, mentally strong, and definitely can be around as long as he want to.

[1585] Yeah.

[1586] Bad ass.

[1587] Yeah, he's a bad man. And there's a good crop of people like that today.

[1588] Tank is another one.

[1589] Yes.

[1590] Phenomenal.

[1591] Yes.

[1592] Look, Kit Austin is right on the hills, right?

[1593] Good tennis.

[1594] Correct.

[1595] Bruce.

[1596] And let me tell you, you, look, I can promote a lot of fighters.

[1597] You're expecting me to mention a whole bunch of names.

[1598] You got, you know, got this week Zoto making a comeback after getting dominated, right?

[1599] Real bad.

[1600] Overseas.

[1601] But that was the first shot in the CIA, he bounced back now.

[1602] This is the career going forward.

[1603] Morgia.

[1604] We got, it's a lot of talent, even on other side of the street, the next house.

[1605] next promotional house.

[1606] There's so many fights.

[1607] But you know what, Joe?

[1608] Doesn't mean squat if they don't get made.

[1609] Right.

[1610] You and fans around the world want to see the best, fighting the best.

[1611] I did a segment for four episodes of interviews, interviews rather, not episodes, on fight news, talking about.

[1612] Fights that need to be made, and the first one out of the gate, pitting the pressure, running this mouth here, was Tank Davis and Ryan Garcia.

[1613] It's there.

[1614] How did you think that fight was going to play out?

[1615] I thought the fight was going to play out, and I anticipated the fight playing out where Ryan will use all the attributes that he have to his best ability.

[1616] What I mean by that is stay out.

[1617] Length.

[1618] Stay outside.

[1619] Speed.

[1620] speed remember don't admire your work right don't be the don't be the squirrel with your head up looking for something right keep it down he mentioned it working in training that they was working on that they was focused on that reporters was asking you're going to keep your head down of course that's the easy thing to ask but that's what he was known for I want it and I believe Ryan when he said he's going to bottom he's not going to get into his emotions and try to show bravo like he's getting to a shootout you're getting a shootout he's done right tank carries the power he's sneaky explosive explosive yeah you think you're doing something and he rides off that overconfident where now he recognized this old school he's so interesting to Baltimore Baltimore Murillo He's so old school.

[1621] Who old school is?

[1622] Yeah.

[1623] Anybody that throwing punches is open to get hit.

[1624] Anybody.

[1625] And everybody that throw punches, you leave an opportunity as who get there first.

[1626] It's like fencing.

[1627] When you throw punches no matter how straight, no matter how your stance are, when this becomes away from your body and things that you need to protect, the ribs, the chin, It's always an opening.

[1628] It's always opening.

[1629] Who get there first?

[1630] And Tank is so good.

[1631] Tank is so good.

[1632] Tank will give you something that's really not there.

[1633] It's literally, you know, you think it's, you know about the three top, the ball and the three top hustle?

[1634] Mm -hmm.

[1635] You think he showed it to you.

[1636] You think, and he did a couple of these, it's not there.

[1637] Right.

[1638] He shows you something that is like an illusion.

[1639] might not be the first time once he tried you and you go for it but it's coming and that's how he sets you up he said traps yeah he sets traps and he's got ridiculous one punch knockout power too he's just such an interesting fighter because his style is so different from everybody else he's so conservative in the early rounds throws so few punches and he lets you work he lets you work and you're backing up and you're always afraid of that power and he's just moving in trying to find that opening where he just gets in there on you.

[1640] Your mind is burning energy.

[1641] Yeah.

[1642] You physically burn an energy because you know, right, even if he just tit you in an arm, you know, based on what you've been hearing through the whole press conference and through the whole fights he had before then, yourself, that you better than get hit.

[1643] Yeah.

[1644] See, power rules everything around you.

[1645] Mm -hmm.

[1646] One thing about power, you're going to lose all the fights, all the rounds and dead power.

[1647] Come on.

[1648] Right, that would make the foreman's, the Mike Tyson.

[1649] Dante Wilder.

[1650] Power of rules.

[1651] Yeah.

[1652] I got one shot and it's over.

[1653] I can be losing a whole 90 -I -I -can -lose -arbit to the 12th round and hit you with that power.

[1654] And to get to the 12th, 11th, 10th, 9th, 8th, you're walking and treading danger.

[1655] You're walking through a minefield that any time, Any false, any bad move, it's over.

[1656] Yeah.

[1657] Fighting tankers like that.

[1658] Yeah.

[1659] All right.

[1660] One last thing to talk to you about before we get out of here.

[1661] What do you think about this crazy fight between Tyson Fury and Francis and Gano?

[1662] What do you think about them set and not that fight?

[1663] I like Tyson Fury, though, man. I like Tyson Fury.

[1664] I like Tyson Fury because of, it's unorthodox of, even the way he look.

[1665] Everything.

[1666] Right?

[1667] And I ain't got to explain anything else because you're on the same page.

[1668] And I believe that the world understands.

[1669] that this ain't the tradition.

[1670] This ain't we're used to looking at and we're talking about heavyweights.

[1671] You're thinking of a guy, you want a guy look like Lennox Lewis in his prime.

[1672] Chiseled.

[1673] Look at him.

[1674] He likes tricking you, too.

[1675] He shows that big belly.

[1676] No, listen, he liked the guy Fred who dude like my mechanic.

[1677] Like he handles all.

[1678] But I'm telling you.

[1679] He's an animal.

[1680] He's an animal.

[1681] And he's promotable.

[1682] Yeah.

[1683] It's personality.

[1684] Oh.

[1685] for days.

[1686] I mean, you can't, like...

[1687] But what do you think about Francis Inganu having a fight with literally one of the greatest heavyweights of all time, and he's never had a professional boxing fight?

[1688] Again, how did he get there?

[1689] Well, he got there from being the UFC heavyweight champion.

[1690] Who, but that UFC?

[1691] Yeah, exactly.

[1692] Listen, if you...

[1693] Listen, I can visualize you and I sitting right here, right?

[1694] You got the...

[1695] You're Dana White right now.

[1696] Okay.

[1697] You Dana White, I consider Dana White a friend, right?

[1698] I really do.

[1699] He's definitely a sports fan or anything.

[1700] Oh, yeah.

[1701] But, look, half of this is his show, the other half because of Tyson Free only is a boxing match.

[1702] For a belt, I assume, right?

[1703] There's some, it's some belt that's a radio radio created.

[1704] They got somebody to put something together.

[1705] I got you.

[1706] Yeah.

[1707] It's a money pay day.

[1708] It's a payday Yeah Right, Canello payday Yeah This does nothing Other than payday For Tyson Frerey He lose to a UFC guy Which I'm saying he won't I bet I bet everything I love I bet everything I love Yeah Entertainment On a high level because of Tyson Ferry.

[1709] Right.

[1710] But also because of the novelty of this UFC heavyweight champion leaving the UFC and securing this boxing.

[1711] Anybody that leads to the UFC undefeated or not undefeated would not be successful on that level or any level where a fighter on a boxing level has a heartbeat and possibly a pulse is going to be victorious.

[1712] That's why it becomes a show more than the real deal.

[1713] And that's why it's not even being talked about as a heavyweight fight from a heavyway fight that we know.

[1714] Correct.

[1715] Right.

[1716] Because they don't, we don't sanction that, man. But does it upset you that this guy jumps in front of Usig, jumps in front of Joshua, jumps in front of anybody else in the division and gets to fight Tyson Fuhr?

[1717] Or do you think, hey, good for him.

[1718] He gets his payday.

[1719] Because that's how I feel about it.

[1720] I know how I feel.

[1721] Because I love Francis, and I'm happy that Francis is going to get a, a. whopping bag.

[1722] But let me, now, that's emotional.

[1723] Yes.

[1724] But in the sports, and where I come from, I'm biased too.

[1725] Yeah.

[1726] I think in Tyson Friri has a fruit top people that me and you would love to see in spite of who he's ready to fight.

[1727] Yeah.

[1728] Usoc.

[1729] Correct.

[1730] First, all right?

[1731] That's the big one.

[1732] If Uset is not available, I think that Tyson Fri would beat him.

[1733] What about Wilder?

[1734] Yeah.

[1735] I mean, Joshua.

[1736] Yes.

[1737] Right?

[1738] Yeah.

[1739] There's heavyweights out there that's in the top five.

[1740] I only say 10.

[1741] That's better and have more credentials than what's happening.

[1742] Andy Rootis.

[1743] Correct.

[1744] Yeah.

[1745] Who, to me, why do you think he's trying to get a fight now?

[1746] Yeah.

[1747] Right?

[1748] He's trying to get a fight as we speak.

[1749] Right now.

[1750] And not a big heavyweight, right?

[1751] In some cases, you'll think of blowing up cruiserweight, right?

[1752] Not a big guy, right?

[1753] You'll think they'd be chopping at the bit.

[1754] They're going to make millions of dollars.

[1755] That fight there is more credibility and more, I guess, what people want to see than entertainment that Tyson and Freary is ready to show this week.

[1756] And he gets a knockout within five rounds.

[1757] He thinks so.

[1758] Oh, yeah.

[1759] One other guy I want to talk to you about that I don't think gets enough credit is Art or Bitterbeef.

[1760] That guy's a motherfucker.

[1761] People don't know him.

[1762] I mean, it's just he can't secure that big fight.

[1763] And that's one of the reasons why?

[1764] Dangerous.

[1765] Dangerous.

[1766] 19 and no, 19 knockouts.

[1767] But this is the thing about the generation of fighters, not all, but most.

[1768] They don't want a L on their record.

[1769] What about your legacy?

[1770] They want the bag, of course, but they don't dare to be great.

[1771] They want, most of them want to fight the fights that they have a better chance on winning.

[1772] And when you tell most of them of this generation, about history they look at you like he got three heads like history like you're talking late 20s, early 30s or younger you're talking about 25 years from now they're going to be and this is a legit conversation they're looking at you like 25 you're talking to a 19 year old who don't understand that time go past past so fast so fast time go by so damn fast and boxing.

[1773] I started at 25.

[1774] Something fucking heard of.

[1775] I started at 25.

[1776] I had the room based on lifestyle, based on offense defense, based on my mental.

[1777] I stressed it out.

[1778] Stretched it out better than any part of that time, you got to look at the time I started late as a pro.

[1779] Not as an amateur, but as a pro, I ain't win no AAUs and no golden gloves and no Olympic gold medal, but I had regional, I had local fights in the city, a little tournament's here and tournaments there.

[1780] But I look at all these things to answer questions that's asked all the time the way I just said to you and explaining you about all these things, whether it's the boxing politics, the fighters that's fighting now, each other, the fights that's scheduled the fight right now.

[1781] this is a great time for good fights to be made let's make them let's make them bernard your legend is an honor to have you on here i really appreciate you being here best of luck with everything thank you very much sir for real it's an honor yes sir i'm always been a giant fan thank you so thank you so much bernard hopkins ladies and gentlemen thank you very much.

[1782] Bye, everybody.