Minka Kelly

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Lily Padman.

[3] Hello.

[4] This is going to be in my top 10 for the year, for sure.

[5] Top five, maybe.

[6] Beautiful episode.

[7] Yeah, I really loved this.

[8] This was Anna Kendrick style.

[9] Just very moving.

[10] Minka Kelly.

[11] You probably know Minka Kelly.

[12] I ruined my engagement over Minka Kelly on Parenthood.

[13] You did.

[14] You did.

[15] Crosby did.

[16] Crosby did, yes.

[17] Minka is an actor, a philanthropist, and a best -selling author.

[18] We all fell in love with her on Friday Night Lights.

[19] Then she was on Parenthood.

[20] Oh, so fun.

[21] The roommate, Titans, and Euphoria, my very favorite show.

[22] And her book is out.

[23] I hope everyone gets it.

[24] It's phenomenal.

[25] I read it cover to cover in two days.

[26] Tell me everything.

[27] It's going to blow your mind.

[28] It's an incredibly honest and moving book.

[29] I hope everyone checks it out.

[30] Yeah, what a story.

[31] Oh, man, it's so brave.

[32] Yeah.

[33] Oh, makes me love her so much.

[34] Please enjoy Minka Kelly.

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[37] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[38] No, we hugged.

[39] I played it cool.

[40] The fandom is mutual.

[41] Have you heard our show?

[42] Oh, come on.

[43] No, I don't know.

[44] A lot of people have it.

[45] Day one.

[46] Are you kidding?

[47] Day one.

[48] Of course.

[49] Oh, my God.

[50] Yes, the first episode, you talk about how you and Kristen called me. Oh, the breast implant.

[51] Oh, yeah.

[52] I felt so cool.

[53] You provided me one of my rare victories in that space, which I actually knew that they do go in through the armpit and the belly button for breast implants.

[54] And she thought that was insane.

[55] She called you to confirm this and you had my back as it turns out.

[56] Well, you just had the truth back.

[57] I just had the truth.

[58] Yeah, you weren't picking sides.

[59] You were just picking the side of the truth.

[60] Is it still done that way?

[61] Do we think?

[62] I'll do some fact -checking.

[63] Well, first of all, did you know that Minko was a nurse?

[64] Yes.

[65] I knew because of that conversation.

[66] A scripner.

[67] Yes.

[68] Yeah, that's silly.

[69] Of course you did.

[70] It's obviously more expensive if you go in through those areas, right?

[71] I guess.

[72] More invasive?

[73] I never participated in those ones.

[74] I always did the ariola ones.

[75] Oh, you did.

[76] Old fashion.

[77] Yeah.

[78] Textbook.

[79] Classic augmentation.

[80] It would be easier to hide the scar.

[81] Because now you have a scar in your armpit.

[82] Right.

[83] But you don't really do the math.

[84] Right.

[85] You're like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[86] She got caught jumping a fence or something.

[87] That's true.

[88] Or even you might jump to my ex -girlfriend Carrie in high school.

[89] Her father had had his sweat glands removed.

[90] He was just going through too many dress shirts.

[91] and they then were willing to do that, which now I don't think they would do.

[92] No, because you need to.

[93] You need it.

[94] Where does it now come out of his elbow?

[95] That's right.

[96] That's where they relocated.

[97] Right.

[98] Well, he had to stay in Michigan.

[99] He couldn't go to a hotter climate.

[100] But maybe you would think that.

[101] Yes, exactly.

[102] Couldn't you just Botox your armpits?

[103] I've heard they do that now.

[104] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[105] And then the navel seems like, guys, what's just start at the feet?

[106] At this point, you're going through half the body.

[107] It's going through my kidneys.

[108] Yeah, but I mean rectally at that point.

[109] Maybe you don't even have to make an incision.

[110] Oh, man. Okay, so I called you yesterday because I'm reading your book and it's blowing my mind.

[111] It makes me very emotional.

[112] And the fact that I know you, yeah, there's so much heartbreaking stuff in there.

[113] And you have little girls.

[114] And so I've been learning that my friends that have little girls, it's hard for them to read.

[115] Yeah, yeah.

[116] I'm also, coincidentally, have you heard of this book, Demon Copperfield?

[117] No. Barbara Kings.

[118] Solver.

[119] King solver.

[120] King Solver.

[121] King Solver.

[122] King Solver.

[123] Yeah.

[124] The solver of Kings every time and I still can't remember it.

[125] I haven't read a work of fiction in so long.

[126] Someone recommended it so vehemently that I gave it a shot and it is your story, but it's a boy because it's a modern retelling of David Copperfield.

[127] So it's this little boy whose mother's an addict.

[128] Oh, someone did tell me about this.

[129] Just won the Pulitzer.

[130] Yes.

[131] Someone actually did tell me about this.

[132] It's just fun.

[133] Yeah.

[134] Yes.

[135] Yes.

[136] What luck is that that?

[137] That I haven't read fiction.

[138] I know.

[139] In 20 years, and they pick it up, and then it wins the Pulitzer.

[140] Yeah.

[141] It must be you.

[142] I think it's me. Guess what?

[143] Your memoir is going to win the Pulitzer next year.

[144] Okay.

[145] Slow down.

[146] But his story, it's fictitious, but I kept thinking, and I've talked about it on here a lot, the author has to have been in those situations.

[147] There's such a specific dynamic when the stepdad becomes controlling, the way it gets rolled out.

[148] The whole thing is so accurate in.

[149] it puts me right back in those places.

[150] And then everything in your book puts me in them as well.

[151] Did you know any of this stuff already or no?

[152] No. I had a hint.

[153] When I called you, I told you we're watching parenthood.

[154] Me and the girls are watching parenthood.

[155] And they love it like every night before.

[156] But they're like, come on, we need time to watch a parenthood episode.

[157] So of course, I was reflecting on the times we worked together on parenthood.

[158] And I think the first clue I ever got, I didn't even know how this would have come up.

[159] But I learned that you had been in many brawls in New Mexico and a lot of fistfights, which really took me by surprise.

[160] It wasn't really the presenting image.

[161] Mixed messages.

[162] Very mixed messages.

[163] That was maybe the first time I thought, oh, wow, this gal who presents is perfect comes from some shit.

[164] And isn't that I've learned in itself a trauma response is to present in the antithesis of the truth of your situation.

[165] I talk about in the book, how my therapist one day said to me, you're acting like a stripper's daughter.

[166] And then I was like, what?

[167] No, I'm not.

[168] Look, I drive an Audi.

[169] I have an Audi.

[170] It's my seventh one.

[171] And I didn't realize what he meant was the pendulum has gone so far that I'm not being myself.

[172] I'm working so hard to prove and show everyone that I didn't come from where I come from.

[173] Yes, yes, it's exhausting.

[174] Yeah.

[175] And then at the same time, frustrated that everyone seems to misunderstand me or mis -sort of characterize me as my character on a show.

[176] Like a goody -goody or something.

[177] I couldn't be farther from her.

[178] And it's so subconscious.

[179] Monica's the real Lila Garrity.

[180] She is a state champion cheerleader.

[181] Oh, are you really?

[182] Yeah.

[183] Two -time.

[184] Wow.

[185] But we just got in this conversation about goody -goodies on a fact check, actually, because you are against them.

[186] Mm -mm.

[187] Well.

[188] I said I love when I find out goody -goodies.

[189] Have a checkered pass.

[190] he kept saying, which is funny because I feel like, I guess sort of what you're saying, where everyone has a past of some sort.

[191] So whatever you're presenting, whatever goody -goody is being presented is never that.

[192] You always have something behind it.

[193] I think you're a great example of it.

[194] What are your memories of working together in parenthood?

[195] Do you have many?

[196] Like I just saw that you were in an Audi and I immediately remembered, oh yeah, she drove an Audi 13 years ago.

[197] You're very brand loyal.

[198] Crazy.

[199] I know.

[200] Whenever anyone asks me what my favorite job was, I always say parenthood.

[201] Oh, really?

[202] For what reasons?

[203] It was the warmest reception.

[204] Well, we were all huge fans.

[205] There were signs in the hair and makeup trailer.

[206] Welcome to Parenthood, Lila, Gary.

[207] I just was received so warmly and lovingly, and I just felt so at home so quickly.

[208] And it's also where I found confidence because one of the directors, I'll never forget, when I I would get notes.

[209] I used to respond with, oh, I'm so sorry.

[210] Okay, I'm sorry.

[211] And I remember he pulled me aside one day, and he was like, when I give you a note, it's not because you did anything wrong.

[212] You have nothing to be sorry about.

[213] I'm telling you because I know that you can do what I'm asking you to do.

[214] And you belong here.

[215] You're here because you're good.

[216] Was that Larry trailing?

[217] Yeah.

[218] Oh, God.

[219] I'm going to cry now.

[220] And I cried.

[221] He looked at me and said, you're good, Minkam.

[222] He is the most beautiful.

[223] And I just was like, I am.

[224] I never felt good.

[225] I never felt worthy.

[226] I never felt like I belonged here.

[227] I just felt like such an imposter.

[228] From then on, I learned to go, yeah, you got it.

[229] Let's try that.

[230] As opposed to, I'm so sorry.

[231] Yeah, it's so subtle, but it's so deep.

[232] The layers of unworthiness.

[233] I'm still shedding.

[234] Here's a moment I remember really clearly.

[235] From my perspective, I'm like, I'm a huge fan of Frine Outlight you.

[236] I'm excited to be meeting you.

[237] And then we started having scenes together.

[238] And again, I'm trying to figure who you actually are.

[239] But there was one thing.

[240] That was interesting.

[241] I thought, I don't know if you would remember this, but I guess it was the scene before we hook up or behind a car outside in front of Adam Braverman's house.

[242] And they're setting up to shoot this scene.

[243] That's going to be the most romantic one we shoot because the next one is just action.

[244] So that scene to me was really important.

[245] And they wanted me to stand on a curb and you to stand down by the car.

[246] And then I said, I would really appreciate it if you could let me stand down so you're shooting down on me and then you're looking at the right side of my face and I look my most handsome, and I really would prefer that we shoot it this way.

[247] Like, please give me the best shot at this.

[248] I got my way, basically.

[249] And then they left and went to set it up that way.

[250] And then I got insecure, A, because I'm being vain.

[251] And then B, potentially I'm being a dick, right?

[252] Because I'm saying I want it this way.

[253] And you go, wow, that was really impressive.

[254] I would never have the balls to tell them to do it that way.

[255] And I don't know.

[256] I found that to be a very telling.

[257] interaction with you.

[258] A big teaching moment for me, that it's okay to ask for what you want and what you need and to advocate for what you think might be best.

[259] Yeah.

[260] Well, it shows that you care, not that you're difficult, and caring is good.

[261] Right.

[262] Although, now we have to mention, easier for a man to do it than a woman.

[263] Yeah.

[264] Probably looks like I care and then someone else that, she's so vain.

[265] No one would accuse you of being vain.

[266] I was probably the most vain person on the whole cast.

[267] You're a director, so it's like, oh, he knows.

[268] Yeah.

[269] But anyways, too, I have known you in that brief time, which was so fun.

[270] I loved working with you.

[271] And then to read the book and then be overwhelmed with like, yeah, God, you don't really know anything about anybody that you know.

[272] And you thin slice through life and you make so many assumptions.

[273] So I guess my first question is, how do you come to write this book?

[274] Follow -up question to that.

[275] What's the difference between writing it privately and then now being in the world talking about it?

[276] I had wanted to write it forever, really, even in high school.

[277] I remember thinking, I'm going to write this, but I have to wait till she's dead.

[278] Yeah.

[279] Because I just wouldn't want to hurt her because if she knew what I knew, it would break her heart.

[280] It would unravel her, yeah.

[281] I did so much of playing dumb for her benefit.

[282] To enable her shit.

[283] To keep the peace.

[284] Yeah.

[285] Protect yourself and her.

[286] Well, when you're with something that's so fragile and you know that your words have the ability to completely destroy them and then you're left with your caregivers completely destroyed.

[287] That's not really an option on the table.

[288] Exactly.

[289] And then I had dinner with my girlfriends, like about eight years ago, and we all shared all this stuff.

[290] I just over the years, not when I was on parenthood, obviously, you didn't know anything because I would never share anything.

[291] So you're like, I'll throw on this bone.

[292] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[293] So maybe certain instances like that where I'd be like, oh, that's a safe thing to share.

[294] And little things like that over time, giving me permission to be these things would just give me more and more confidence to share more and more.

[295] And Pete Berg knew a lot of my story.

[296] And so he would encourage me a lot.

[297] Mink, have you written yet?

[298] And then one day he was like, if you just fucking wake up at 5 o 'clock in the morning and write for 20 minutes before you know it, you'll have 90 pages.

[299] Just do it.

[300] And I was like, that takes pressure off of it.

[301] And so sure enough, I did.

[302] But I initially started writing in the format that we know.

[303] I wrote a screenplay and I was going to make that.

[304] Can I ask what period of your life the screenplay covered?

[305] It starts with me at five years old in the strip club and ends when my mom dies.

[306] Initially, I just intended to write a mother -daughter story.

[307] Just doing it because I had to.

[308] I just wanted to get this story out.

[309] And also because my therapist helped me, I struggled with, well, what's so important about my story?

[310] Why is mine more important than anyone else's?

[311] And Dr. Krausman said, if you take more out of that question, you have your answer.

[312] It doesn't have to be more important.

[313] All of our stories are important.

[314] And be meaningful to someone.

[315] Also, during a time I'm not working, so it's making you feel like I have a job.

[316] Yes.

[317] By I'm going to create my own material.

[318] And then the pandemic happened, so that all fell through.

[319] Simon Kinberg was on to produce it and make it with me. And then during the pandemic, a couple of people I really trust and love were like, I think you should write a book.

[320] There's more story.

[321] You should just dig deep and tell the rest of it.

[322] And I was like, okay.

[323] And then that process took a year.

[324] I was very intimidated and also insecure about the fact that I don't have the education to write the book I want to read.

[325] And no one writes alone.

[326] And I wrote the screenplay alone.

[327] I need help.

[328] Yes, yes.

[329] And so I worked with a creative writing professor.

[330] She helped me with format.

[331] Also pushing me to tell the parts that I didn't want to tell.

[332] Of course.

[333] Or asking me more questions or seeing what I would write and be like, why don't you describe this in a little more detail?

[334] It was like creative writing, crash course.

[335] And you loved her.

[336] Love her.

[337] And you trusted her.

[338] Implicitly.

[339] It changed my life because re -remembering your childhood like that and unpacking so much of that.

[340] While simultaneously going through a lot of really intense therapy, the story now has turned into something else.

[341] The screenplay was a mother -daughter story.

[342] Now this is becoming, oh, this is the thing that happened in my childhood that's now informing me and wreaking havoc on my relationships today.

[343] Yeah, so you can do it in therapy, obviously, and you do do it in therapy, but did you find that having it all laid out made you comprehend some things that maybe you hadn't previously?

[344] Sure.

[345] You write about your mother in detail.

[346] You go, oh my God, I'm doing the same thing.

[347] I am following in her footsteps.

[348] Fuck!

[349] Yeah.

[350] On the outside, I've made all the big different choices, but subconsciously in the environments I'm recreating for myself, the dynamics and relationships.

[351] I'm doing the same fucking thing.

[352] Because it's familiar.

[353] Your body wants to do that.

[354] Yes, you go where it's familiar even if it hurts.

[355] Yeah.

[356] Because where familiar feels safe.

[357] Exactly.

[358] It's what you know.

[359] So create chaos.

[360] And you've already developed all the coping mechanisms.

[361] Exactly.

[362] I know how to handle all the shit.

[363] Yeah.

[364] And I even get high on it.

[365] I'm an arousal junkie.

[366] Yes, I can tell about your toys outside.

[367] Yeah, by every death -define piece of equipment in the art. But now sharing it in public, I can only compare it to me relapsing, talking about it on this show, and then occasionally getting asked about it outside of the safe little room.

[368] A couple things that worry me is like, I don't ever want that to become a story that I know how to tell perfectly with all the beats.

[369] I'm a performer.

[370] So if I tell a story 10 times, by the 11th time, I got it.

[371] And now it's just a story.

[372] And I don't ever want it to be that.

[373] I feel like it's dishonoring the whole experience.

[374] That's one thing.

[375] And then just two, it's like, well, hold on, partner, I didn't invite you into this.

[376] Whoever's asking me. Monica and I, I'm happy to do that with, or even the three of us in this room.

[377] It's just a different layer.

[378] For me, it's control.

[379] In one version, I have total control.

[380] And then the other version, I don't.

[381] You had total control when you wrote the book.

[382] Yeah.

[383] And now you're here, and we're going to share control or whatever that is.

[384] When it first started being talked about, this narrative was shocking.

[385] shocking, tragic, awful childhood.

[386] And I was just like, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, no. Slow down.

[387] Guys, it's very complex and maybe shocking to you because you had this idea of me. But it's not tragic.

[388] And it's not all these really horrible adjectives that even in interviews, your childhood was very harrowing.

[389] And I'm like, actually, no, it really wasn't.

[390] It was also full of love and adventure and fun and the beauty.

[391] And I'm here to talk about the beautiful sides of it.

[392] There's a lot of collateral beauty to growing up the way we grew up.

[393] Well, it's two things, right?

[394] You're here where you want to be.

[395] So if you're where you want to be, you can't really hate what came before it because it landed you.

[396] So that's one truth.

[397] Also tragic.

[398] What I think would really hit you is if you're not raising a child, are you?

[399] No, I'm not.

[400] Okay.

[401] If you were raising a child and you saw them hit these markers, like if you had a five -year -old and you were dressing your five -year -old for kindergarten, and you imagine sending her to crazy girls to watch mom.

[402] do a routine.

[403] I do that with my friend's kids all the time.

[404] There you go.

[405] And you go, oh, no, no, no, no, no. You're too tiny for this.

[406] That's where it's tragic.

[407] Maybe, too, it's like my defense mechanism or my fear of burdening anyone.

[408] I'm like, please don't pity me. I'm fine.

[409] Look at me. I'm great.

[410] I don't need you to feel sorry for me. I also don't want to sensationalize trauma by going, but look at what it made me. Because I also sometimes think, man, if I'm this.

[411] great despite all of that.

[412] I wonder what I could have been had I had more guidance and nurturing.

[413] Someone that was modeling.

[414] Yeah, yeah.

[415] Yeah.

[416] So I'm not thankful for it and I don't think it's necessary to make a good, strong person.

[417] It does make me wonder, man, what instruments would I be playing right now?

[418] What other career would I have had?

[419] I mean, my God, I was fascinated by medicine.

[420] I'm so athletic.

[421] There's all these things where I'm like, man, I'm really good at that.

[422] I want.

[423] I wonder what I could have been if someone noticed that a little sooner and nurtured that.

[424] You just reminded me what I actually hate about the relapse story is I can't accept compassion.

[425] It's very weird.

[426] I don't want it.

[427] I don't want to be pitied.

[428] That's a weakness.

[429] I want to be strong and indomitable.

[430] And I don't want any of that.

[431] They don't like it.

[432] In fact, everything I've done my whole life is to demonstrate how fucking indomitable I am.

[433] Please don't do that.

[434] It's so uncomfortable.

[435] fucking weird.

[436] Because it never feels sincere.

[437] Okay.

[438] It feels like pseudo sympathy.

[439] We're like, oh, wow.

[440] And you're like, oh, no, no, no, don't do that.

[441] Well, yes, there's a version of that, which is like, don't placate me. Is there something in there where you feel like people are saying subconsciously, like, I'm glad that wasn't me when they're giving compassion or sympathy?

[442] Like you would feel dirty and low rent?

[443] Well, within their sympathy, there's this implicit.

[444] Yikes, I'm glad that wasn't me. And then that would make me feel defensive.

[445] if I were on the other side of it.

[446] Like, no, I'm doing good.

[447] It's good.

[448] I do love the, ooh, I just want to wrap that little Minka up and protect her.

[449] I'm like, yeah, me too.

[450] Because for some reason, I feel distanced from little Minka.

[451] So I'm with you on that.

[452] I'm like, oh, me too.

[453] I try to every day.

[454] Oh, I'm rattled the whole time I'm raining it.

[455] I'm actually having waves of guilt that I haven't figured out how to figure out what little kid is dealing with this around me that I could be helping.

[456] I actually am, like, overwhelmed with this hasn't stopped happening.

[457] We're getting too far down the road.

[458] We need to talk about some things that happened.

[459] Last thing about writing it, though, before we get into some of the stories.

[460] Okay.

[461] I too am doing the same thing.

[462] Oh, good.

[463] Yeah.

[464] And I loved reading your paragraph at the very beginning, which explains this is my story.

[465] A lot of this stuff doesn't even make sense.

[466] Memory is self -fallible.

[467] A, I'm wrestling with that right.

[468] And then I've already written a thing explaining like, I don't know what to tell you other than this is what I believe to be true.

[469] People will probably disagree.

[470] I also have these thoughts, and I wonder if you had it more, I'm like, no one's going to believe this.

[471] Yes, absolutely.

[472] Like, they're going to think I'm just trying to get attention.

[473] Dax, sometimes I wouldn't even believe it.

[474] I'm like, this is nuts.

[475] I know it sounds crazy.

[476] And so my editor, we would interview whoever I could get a hold of.

[477] Yeah.

[478] After I would write something, would talk to my mom's best friend Claudia or talk to my best friend Angel from high school.

[479] And they would verbatim tell the same exact story that I already told.

[480] And I'd be like, all right.

[481] My memory is intact.

[482] I don't remember a lot.

[483] But what I do remember has been pretty accurate.

[484] Yeah.

[485] Because just like you, I'm like, you can't make this shit up.

[486] Yeah, that sounds preposterous.

[487] It sounds crazy.

[488] Yeah, yeah.

[489] She tells a story about she's with her friend and her friend's cousin Yvonne.

[490] And Yvonne is scheduled to fight her own cousin who's younger than her.

[491] And the whole school got out and has gathered to watch this fight.

[492] There's a hundred people in the street.

[493] And Minka and her friend arrive.

[494] Minka thinks she's going to see this fight between Devon and.

[495] Devina and Yvonne.

[496] And when she gets there, Davina's like, oh, no, no, I want to fight Minka.

[497] Oh, no. So, like, the fight with 100 people watching, I've been in that exact same situation where it's like, this is out of a movie.

[498] There's 100 people involved in this.

[499] Yeah.

[500] When I was writing the screenplay, I was deciding, do I start with the little girl in the strip club, or do I start in the middle of that fight?

[501] Uh -huh.

[502] Of, like, sitting on top of this girl in the middle of the street.

[503] Oh, my God.

[504] And then just because we're there, wondering, like, when do you stop?

[505] And then some primitive compulsion going, I just want them to be out cold.

[506] Like whatever that is where they can't get back up, that's what I'm going for.

[507] But who knows where this ends?

[508] And I don't know when this is supposed to end.

[509] Just the confusing nature.

[510] And the consciousness that you have throughout.

[511] And the detachment from striking somebody.

[512] Being grateful that I'm on top.

[513] Yes, this could be worse.

[514] I could be on bottom.

[515] Yeah, that bizarre space of time where you're doing that.

[516] You're watching yourself from above yourself.

[517] I still can see the moment where it's slowed down.

[518] I'm like, what am.

[519] I doing.

[520] Someone pull me off soon because this is bad, but I can't stop.

[521] And if I do, they might.

[522] Everyone's screaming at me to keep going.

[523] Oh, God.

[524] And every time I get up, she tells me she's going to do it back every.

[525] I'm like, are you sure?

[526] Three rounds.

[527] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[528] So would she challenge you to this fight?

[529] Did you have the thought, I have to say yes or I have to do it?

[530] No. So she was over there from her car, yells out, I don't want to fight you, Yvonne.

[531] I want to fight Minka.

[532] And I went, what?

[533] What?

[534] Why?

[535] Look at Yvonne.

[536] Like, surely you're not going to let that happen.

[537] And Yvonne hands me a hair tie.

[538] Just put your hair up.

[539] And here she comes.

[540] You're not choosing whether or not you're in the fight.

[541] I have no choice.

[542] Yes.

[543] It's coming for me. With 100 people cheering, there will be a fight today.

[544] There will be a fight.

[545] It might not be the people that were scheduled or promoted.

[546] Whoever she wants to fight is going to be in the fight.

[547] Okay, but the fantasy I have, so I have this thought alone, no one's going to believe this.

[548] People are going to think I want attention.

[549] People are going to think I want sympathy.

[550] The stupid voice in your head, your shadow.

[551] So much of that.

[552] I know when I'm ruminating on stuff, that a trick for me is to go after hours of it.

[553] I'll go, just write down the list.

[554] I'm in a court case in my head, right?

[555] You and I are going to argue, and I got to make these nine points.

[556] And I get obsessed with the notion that I can't forget these nine points.

[557] I just keep going over them.

[558] And then eventually I'll go, just write them down.

[559] And I write my whole little argument down.

[560] And now I don't have to hold it in my head because it's all there.

[561] And so I have this fantasy that in writing the book, it'll be a way for me to peacefully and with love and respect, let it leave my head.

[562] Okay, it's there now.

[563] You don't have to keep cycling through the details so that you don't forget.

[564] And I'm just wondering if you're on the other side of that and if that little thing has happened.

[565] Totally.

[566] I mean, it's also why they say in therapy, write it out.

[567] It does free you.

[568] Something about all of this.

[569] Now, being out of my hands, none of it has any power over me anymore.

[570] It's also why I start the book with.

[571] The most humiliating and embarrassing and scary part of my past and the one I carried the most shame about.

[572] I worked as a girl in a peep show at a dingy adult video store on the side of a highway in Albuquerque.

[573] Broken glass all over the pavement.

[574] At 17, you've lied.

[575] At 17 years old, yes, with my friend's ID.

[576] Which doesn't look anything like you.

[577] Nothing like me. They don't give a fuck.

[578] She was like, great, when can you start?

[579] Yeah.

[580] I'm like, yeah, now you can't shame me about anymore.

[581] Exactly.

[582] And also my therapist, I remember telling him after telling someone about that and then being so ashamed of me and going, oh, Minka, you could have done anything.

[583] And you're like, no, I couldn't have.

[584] But in that moment, I didn't have the time or the confidence to go, let me give you some context of why I couldn't have done anything else.

[585] Yes, yes.

[586] I couldn't even conceptualize it for myself to be able to explain myself because the shame is so overwhelming that you don't have access to the tools or the language to help someone understand.

[587] understand that that was the only thing I could have done at the time.

[588] Impossibly the best option for you as insane as that may sound.

[589] When you have really toughly terrible options, that might be the best one.

[590] My therapist was like, do you know how brave you had to be to do that?

[591] I'd love to see that person in that scenario.

[592] The judgmental person.

[593] Yeah.

[594] Oh, my God.

[595] And that just cracked me open.

[596] I was like, really?

[597] Yeah.

[598] You know, I didn't know.

[599] And that was really helpful in me starting to feel.

[600] more confident about, I did do that.

[601] Fuck, yeah, I did that.

[602] I can do whatever needs doing to survive.

[603] That's who I am.

[604] Yeah, maybe you would have died out there.

[605] I'm a survivor.

[606] Exactly.

[607] Exactly.

[608] Not me. I found my way out.

[609] Yeah.

[610] So impressive.

[611] Thanks, Mom.

[612] It is.

[613] It really, really is.

[614] I do think it's relevant to kind of touch down in a few of the places that lead to the peep show in the shitty strip mall, which is at 5, your mother's working.

[615] at Crazy Girls.

[616] She's also driving a limousine.

[617] And you're living in a storage closet.

[618] I think that was probably in San Diego.

[619] Oh, no, Crazy Girls definitely in L .A. And you're going to Laurel Elementary.

[620] So it's got to be L .A. Yeah, yeah.

[621] Unless you were commuting from San Diego.

[622] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[623] I only said, because someone reached out to me recently who my mom and I stayed with when my mom was dancing at a place called Nightlife in San Diego.

[624] And that's been happening a lot too.

[625] Be like, do you remember you used to?

[626] Oh, I bet.

[627] And usually I'm like, but then they send pictures.

[628] Oh, wow.

[629] Jesus, you did know me. And that has been the biggest relief or gives me so much reassurance when people that loved my mom reach out to me and go, good job.

[630] You got it right.

[631] I'm like, oh, thank you because I'm so afraid of villainizing her.

[632] She can be misunderstood very easily.

[633] And so it was very important to me to make sure that you love her.

[634] She's complex, just like everyone is.

[635] Yes, yes.

[636] And just didn't have the guidance or the tools.

[637] anyone taking care of her, helping her.

[638] And so, fuck, yeah, she made a lot of really hard choices.

[639] Somehow, she knew one million people to call when she was absent that showed up for her.

[640] I really related in a lot of ways because my father, who I had the complicated relationship with, I had a hard time making peace with the fact that when he died, there was between 20 and 45 people in the room at all times for three months.

[641] He had that many friends.

[642] That many people loved my dad and looked up to him and he was a sponsor to all these people in sobriety.

[643] That's not the character in my story about him.

[644] I have to acknowledge he was lovely if you were friends with him.

[645] Might not have been the best person to be your dad, although I'm coming around on that notion as well.

[646] But just side note, I always found this weird disjunction between how universally love my dad was, truly.

[647] And yet I had all these issues with him.

[648] So I got curious why so many people were willing to do your mom so many favors.

[649] Yet she was hardcore addict, narcissistic, bit.

[650] Love addict.

[651] She's all the stuff.

[652] Yeah.

[653] She's all the stuff.

[654] Which, of course, I have compassion for us, someone who has all the same stuff.

[655] I mean, all of those are trauma responses, right?

[656] So how can you not have compassion for?

[657] My goodness, what a mess.

[658] Yeah, some stuff clearly set her on those many paths.

[659] But back to crazy girls, you're going to school in your mom.

[660] This is a heartbreaking part.

[661] I can't decide if it makes me like her or hate her.

[662] She's a stripper.

[663] We're not going to hate her.

[664] No, no, I know.

[665] I'm just being honest about when I'm reading it.

[666] Yeah, we can be mad at her, but I was reading this other memoir and also a very complicated mother, daughter relationship.

[667] And she was saying the way she was able to really get past a lot of it, it was seeing that's not her mom, that's a woman on earth.

[668] Yes.

[669] And when you have like that separation, you can really see the trauma and the things that they have been handed.

[670] And of course, how could that person possibly have been nurturing or X, Y, and Z to a child?

[671] Taking a way that it's you who's the child, it's like having that distance from it can help.

[672] Well, she wasn't taking care of herself, so of course she's not taking care of anyone else.

[673] Yeah, no. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[674] We've all been there.

[675] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[676] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[677] but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[678] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[679] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[680] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[681] Each terrifying true story will be short.

[682] to keep you up at night.

[683] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[684] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon music.

[685] What's up, guys?

[686] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[687] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[688] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[689] And I don't mean just friends.

[690] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[691] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[692] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[693] Okay, but she wants you to see her perform.

[694] Yeah, yeah.

[695] And this is the element.

[696] I'm like, she's like proud.

[697] No, yeah.

[698] She wants you to be proud of her, which is heartbreaking.

[699] It's heartbreaking.

[700] And I relate to it.

[701] As someone who has kids, I almost find myself bragging to them because I want them to like me and think I'm cool and be grateful I'm their dad, right?

[702] I police myself against it, So another part of me is like, no, this is kind of narcissism.

[703] Like, she needs you.

[704] To tell her how wonderful she is.

[705] So I think it's both things.

[706] Mm -hmm.

[707] Will you tell Monica the baglady sketch?

[708] Sure.

[709] My mom really loved musical theater and musicals, in particular, West Side Story.

[710] She wanted to be an actress, and it didn't really work out.

[711] So she would choreograph her own sort of dance numbers sometimes with girls to West Side Story.

[712] And sometimes she would have her own sketches.

[713] So one of them, the baglady sketch, she would burst into the club dressed in rags and just start making a bunch of ruckus.

[714] Knocking shit over.

[715] Drinking out of people's drinks.

[716] Yeah, take a sip, throwing it out.

[717] Sizing up, someone giving a lap dance, you're cute.

[718] Yeah.

[719] I can do this.

[720] You know, and everyone being like, what is going on?

[721] Like a comedy routine.

[722] Yeah, completely.

[723] But people there were actually calling for security to remove the lady.

[724] Well, yeah, the patrons would be very confused.

[725] Meanwhile, of course, the DJ and the girls all know it's Mo. And then eventually she'd be like, let me up there.

[726] I can do this.

[727] They'd be like, all right, let's give her.

[728] And then, you know, it'd be like, the banana -da -da -da -da.

[729] Oh, yes.

[730] And then eventually once enough layers have come off and you see this gorgeous 5 -11 bomb shelf start moving a little bit more sexy.

[731] Less unhoused, more sexy.

[732] She was playing with character.

[733] Because I see a lot of nudity on the streets, to be honest.

[734] Me too.

[735] Yeah, I see all kinds of nudity.

[736] It's not always my favorite kind.

[737] But of course, at that point, then little me was taken back into the dressing room so mom could finish her show.

[738] But by protective co -workers, not necessarily that your mother figured out how perfectly to shield that part of it.

[739] Maybe my mom was like, bring her back before I become totally naked and gyrating in someone's face.

[740] Yeah.

[741] Yeah.

[742] But then Minka falls asleep inside the strip club.

[743] And then when she wakes up, she has no clue where she's at.

[744] She's on a couch somewhere.

[745] Oh, boy.

[746] Which is kind of regular, right?

[747] Yeah.

[748] And then she tries to wake her mother up to take her to school.

[749] She's a little girl who knows she needs to go to school.

[750] Wants to go to school.

[751] It's the only place that feels normal.

[752] Normal.

[753] And safe and fun and free.

[754] There's good food.

[755] There's predictable adults.

[756] This teachers act pretty much the same all day.

[757] What a mystery.

[758] So nice.

[759] What planet are they from?

[760] I want to go there.

[761] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[762] So were you like a super good student because of that?

[763] Yes, I really was until I got to high school because I ended up going to high school in a place where it wasn't cool to be a super good student.

[764] Right.

[765] I wanted to fit in with the cool girls.

[766] I didn't have the confidence to not need that.

[767] Same.

[768] I get it.

[769] There's a line in there early on.

[770] Let me just say you wake up in this apartment and she can't get her mom to wake up.

[771] And then the dude who the mom's slept with that night has the decency to take you in a cab to school.

[772] Total stranger.

[773] You're just with strangers all the time.

[774] But you have a line that says, I was an observant child noting every shift in her, an amateur meteorologist, trying to get a bead on the change from high pressure to low.

[775] You're living with an attic who's either at a drug -fueled 11 enthusiastic or coming down or dealing with the wreckage of.

[776] There's really probably no zone.

[777] in between.

[778] High highs and low lows.

[779] Yes.

[780] As high as you go is as low as you go.

[781] Jekyll and high.

[782] Yeah.

[783] Yes, learning all of these little spidey senses, as I call them, man, do you get good at predicting behavior, don't you?

[784] Way too good.

[785] You become hypervigilant as an adult, always looking for danger.

[786] It gets you in trouble as an adult because you're not really in danger anymore, but you're assuming everyone's going to trick you or lying to you or going to hurt you or abandon in you.

[787] And so you're looking for signs of it so that you can go, I'll do it first.

[788] An example of that.

[789] Your phone call yesterday.

[790] Yeah, tell me about that.

[791] You were just like, I'm almost finished with it.

[792] And I was like, oh, oh, that's okay.

[793] We don't have to do this.

[794] I'll let you off the hook.

[795] I know that broke my heart after we hung out.

[796] Oh, for today.

[797] Yeah.

[798] Yeah.

[799] I was like, oh, that's okay.

[800] You don't have to read it.

[801] And also, if you haven't read it, we don't have to do the thing.

[802] We can postpone it.

[803] And he was like, what are you talking about?

[804] I'm like, I'm letting you off the hook before you have to ask to be let off the hook.

[805] You're free.

[806] And I hung up from that.

[807] I'm like, Minka.

[808] Jesus.

[809] Relax.

[810] No, I knew all that when I hung up.

[811] Because I just said, like, oh, my God, I'm halfway through your book.

[812] I'm on my way home.

[813] I'm going to read the rest of it.

[814] But it's so incredible.

[815] I just wanted to tell you how impactful it is.

[816] Yeah, and you interpret that as me saying, like, we need to postpone.

[817] Or potentially, I'm, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[818] Yes, that was great.

[819] 48, 42.

[820] Are you 42?

[821] Yeah, yeah, still doing it.

[822] But at least we're here talking about it.

[823] And we have the awareness of it, right?

[824] So you can go, ah, I'm doing that thing.

[825] Yeah.

[826] Okay, so tell me about dad.

[827] and then tell me about stepdad.

[828] Okay.

[829] Mom and dad met.

[830] Mom was a model.

[831] He was a musician in L .A. Late 70s.

[832] She's gorgeous.

[833] He's gorgeous.

[834] He's fun and they hook up.

[835] He's originally from France.

[836] He was born in Paris.

[837] And he's a guitarist.

[838] And the second your mother becomes pregnant, he also gets his dream job of joining Aerosmith.

[839] I think he was already in Aerosmith.

[840] But I know when I was born, he was on the road with Aerosmith.

[841] There was a period of time, too, that we went on the road with him.

[842] Anyway, so she gets pregnant and she tells him and he wants her to have an abortion.

[843] And she's like, it's okay.

[844] I'm going to have her.

[845] But I don't need anything from you.

[846] I don't want anything from you.

[847] I'm just letting you know my mom and I will raise her because she had already had abortions before that.

[848] And she didn't want to do it again.

[849] She felt good about this one.

[850] And then when my mom was pregnant with me, her mom died.

[851] Oh.

[852] And that was her best friend.

[853] And so, of course, a huge trauma that's going to inform how she makes choices.

[854] moving forward.

[855] I think when I was two, my mom took me to meet my dad, and I had already had David Dad.

[856] And David is a very tall, jet black hair, Mexican man who believes he's Cherokee or some kind of...

[857] And he is.

[858] He is.

[859] Oh, I thought his mom said, you're not.

[860] Yes, I think, but, you know.

[861] We have a friend like that.

[862] Yeah, yeah.

[863] We have a friend who claims to be Cherokee and then did a 23 -Me test and is 100 % not native in any way, but can't accept it.

[864] I mean, he has such a deep love and respect for the native culture and is beautiful.

[865] There probably is some truth to that.

[866] And so she met him while she was pregnant and he just took on the father role.

[867] And what a beautiful thing.

[868] And his family embraced us and they were my family.

[869] Eventually.

[870] But the period in L .A., he is mercurial.

[871] Oh, yeah.

[872] Let's just say he's a mensch.

[873] He wants to be your dad.

[874] You call him dad.

[875] That's great.

[876] He's also violent.

[877] Yes.

[878] He also parties not as hard as your mom, perhaps.

[879] He keeps it together a little better.

[880] He's throwing the party.

[881] She's enjoying the party.

[882] Yes, yes.

[883] He's controlling.

[884] And herein lies this.

[885] Well, look, a lot of people can deal with it.

[886] Loving someone who is all the things.

[887] You're oppressor, your cheerleader, your only source of love, a lot of your source of your pain.

[888] And learning to constantly forgive.

[889] Or normalize.

[890] Pretending shit doesn't happen.

[891] Pretend you're not affected by it.

[892] Letting them off the hook.

[893] So here was my curiosity after learning about your relationship with David.

[894] When men are addicts and they're occasionally violent or they have tempers, there's the horror and then there's the winning you back.

[895] And the winning you back is very powerful.

[896] You get an 11 of somebody, whereas a normal kid with a normal parent, my kids get a range from me of five to eight, right?

[897] I'm not winning them back, nor am I screaming at them or hitting them.

[898] So I can live in this pocket.

[899] But that becomes part of a pattern that can be really addictive.

[900] I was just going to say there is born the addiction to that high.

[901] Yes.

[902] And I wondered if having him as a dad has fucked you up with men.

[903] Of course.

[904] Of course.

[905] How could it not?

[906] Absolutely.

[907] So I become attracted to the pushpole, the hot cold.

[908] I have to conquer the unconquerable.

[909] I have to perform and be.

[910] good to earn love because just being me is not enough.

[911] I have to show you how domesticated I can be, how much I can take care of you, how much I can make a home, what a nurse I can be.

[912] You're not only mothering yourself, but you're also wifing him.

[913] Oh, mothering myself.

[914] Dad, I'm just now learning.

[915] Yeah, so you're your own mother.

[916] I'm mothering everyone else.

[917] But you're also performing your mother's duties with your stepdad in that you're cleaning the house.

[918] There's a whole system by which you got to do it, or he flies off the handle.

[919] I better not wake them up because they partied late last night, so you don't turn on the vacuum in the morning.

[920] Oh, God.

[921] That you learned the hard way?

[922] You sweep the rug.

[923] Oh, you got to sweep it.

[924] You sweep it, like, and you get good at it, and you get proud of yourself.

[925] Yes.

[926] It reminded me so much of going to my dad's on the weekends, because those were the hours, like opposite of bankers' hours.

[927] We're out till three in the morning at a bar, even though we're kids, and then we're at home.

[928] We're indulging.

[929] We're ordering from this pizza place.

[930] What do you want?

[931] Spoiling us, spoiling us, spoiling us.

[932] because of the guilt that this is our weekend with him.

[933] Bravo's pizza, what, I can get everything?

[934] I'm loving it.

[935] And then, yeah, the next day is now a totally different version of dad.

[936] But I knew, oh, he'll be in a much better mood if I empty all these ashtrays, if I clean up all these beer cans, if I do all the dishes.

[937] Like, if I can make this place perfect, he'll start the day in a much better and more predictable place.

[938] Yes, yes.

[939] You're altering your truth and your behavior to control.

[940] and alter theirs.

[941] This just becomes a life of constant manipulation because...

[942] Trying to spend galley this force that's bigger than you.

[943] Just trying to create a reality that isn't real because you're modifying whatever way you would behave in order to get the reaction from them that you want, which is just to be safe or to be loved.

[944] Right.

[945] Your safety is dependent on their mood, which is why obviously as you get older, you develop codependent tendencies because they were born out of total survival.

[946] Exactly.

[947] It's you before me at all costs.

[948] If you're okay, I'm okay.

[949] Whatever you need to be happy and comfortable, I will do, regardless of whatever.

[950] So that's why in your 30s, when someone asks you, what do you want?

[951] You're like, I don't know.

[952] I want whatever you want.

[953] Like, no. And that took a long time to undo.

[954] Chennai Twain has a similar, have you heard her story?

[955] Love her and her story, yeah.

[956] You should listen to her episode.

[957] Oh, you did.

[958] And Jane Fonda.

[959] Yeah.

[960] We all have a crush on Jane Fonda.

[961] I love listening to her talk about her relationships.

[962] I'm like, oh, yes.

[963] And it's listening to women like that.

[964] You're like, oh, good.

[965] I'm not alone.

[966] I'm not broken.

[967] And we're okay.

[968] It's okay.

[969] You don't have to be shameful about it.

[970] In fact, we have to share these stories so that other people can feel okay and know that they're not broken.

[971] I remember I'd say to my therapist, I think I'm broken.

[972] And you'd be like, you're not broken.

[973] You just need a little sunshine and a little.

[974] water poured on you.

[975] You're not broken.

[976] You don't need to be fixed.

[977] This is Dr. What?

[978] Krausman.

[979] I love I used to call it Dr. Krausman.

[980] I refuse to call mine doctor.

[981] Yeah.

[982] I like it.

[983] You like it.

[984] Yeah.

[985] I like what it.

[986] I like what it creates.

[987] I like the boundary it creates.

[988] I like the respect that it creates.

[989] Otherwise, it would be too personal.

[990] And he's the first like real therapist that affected any kind of change in my life.

[991] And I remember when I started seeing him, I was like, well, he gets me. Oh, this is a man who understands.

[992] Am I in love with He simplifies such complex things.

[993] I'm in love with mine because I actually trust him.

[994] And I think it might be the only man. I've never trusted.

[995] Likewise.

[996] Yeah.

[997] And I'm like, oh, my God.

[998] Well, you trust Larry Trilling.

[999] Oh, I do implicitly.

[1000] Let my kids be raised by him if it were necessary.

[1001] Okay, I just want to add a couple things.

[1002] I want to go to New Mexico because that's a big chapter and a big change.

[1003] But, you know, over the course of Minka's time in L .A., you're left alone in a pool on a Floody, you fall in, you're drowning.

[1004] Oh, God.

[1005] Your mother has left.

[1006] Everyone was partying and then everyone left and you're drowning.

[1007] And then she loves telling the story because she saved you.

[1008] Forget the part that she neglected you and you shouldn't have.

[1009] Yes.

[1010] She remembered and ran over or something.

[1011] She was left.

[1012] She was like, I jumped from the shallow wind all the way to the deep end, fully clothed.

[1013] And I grabbed her out of there.

[1014] And you're like, what was I doing at the bottom of the pool?

[1015] Yes.

[1016] Oh, God.

[1017] And then she was so proud.

[1018] that I went right back in.

[1019] Oh, it's a great story for her, yeah.

[1020] Oh, my God.

[1021] That's a unique experience listening to someone tell a story where they're a hero after they've basically fucked you over.

[1022] I know it well.

[1023] Yeah.

[1024] So, you know, that happened.

[1025] Her babysitter, Odeed.

[1026] They never had a place to live.

[1027] They were bouncing around between all their friends.

[1028] Odeed while you were there?

[1029] Yeah, so when you talk about my mom always had someone there to take care of me. I think she probably used a little less.

[1030] scrutiny.

[1031] Discretion.

[1032] Discretion.

[1033] Then you might have someone wash your car.

[1034] Yeah, it was like, oh, you will?

[1035] Okay, great.

[1036] There wasn't a lot of discernment.

[1037] And you're alive?

[1038] Yeah, exactly.

[1039] Would you describe yourself as alive?

[1040] Then yes, you've got the job.

[1041] You'll just watch her.

[1042] That's all you need to do is just watch.

[1043] I don't even do that sometimes.

[1044] And then I get to save her.

[1045] So my dad is the one who told me when they came back, there was an ambulance outside.

[1046] And she had ODed while I was in her care.

[1047] And so came back to me just looking at her, not knowing what to do about it.

[1048] Now, that's a part that's not really even explored in the book.

[1049] And you may not have any memory of that.

[1050] I don't.

[1051] I only know it because my dad.

[1052] Right.

[1053] Certainly, you were a little kid.

[1054] You had to have been trying to get the person to wake up.

[1055] I'm sure, which is probably why it's blocked out.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] Because that is so terrifying to think that this woman is dead or whatever might be coming out of our mouth.

[1058] You're already scared because no one you know is around.

[1059] And now the stranger you're with has seemingly died.

[1060] You move from a storage room to a garage.

[1061] Yeah.

[1062] The craziest part to me is your mother took a job, or so she told you, she was taking a job in the Philippines out of nowhere.

[1063] And that she'd be gone for six weeks.

[1064] And she was fucking gone for a year.

[1065] That's fifth grade, sixth grade?

[1066] Something around there, yeah.

[1067] And she lived with one woman who was kind of nice to her.

[1068] But then, of course, she had to get out of there.

[1069] She ends up with some family.

[1070] You don't even know how it's connected to your mom.

[1071] There's two older sisters.

[1072] is one wants to beat your ass every day.

[1073] That whole scene, I was like, oh, my God.

[1074] And I love my brother.

[1075] Don't get me wrong.

[1076] But he's five years older than me. And shit rolls downhill.

[1077] And he had the same stepdad as I had.

[1078] You beat the chick up at high school after you got your ass being.

[1079] I was like, oh, my God, yes.

[1080] And you have to participate.

[1081] You can't not participate in these fights.

[1082] I don't know how they get you there.

[1083] Yeah.

[1084] But you're going to fight them.

[1085] And you're going to lose.

[1086] That's how we're going to do it every day.

[1087] Just to know that, yeah, once a day I'm going to absolutely be humiliated.

[1088] Someone's going to spit on my face.

[1089] And you're not going to tell.

[1090] You can't tell because you'll just make life worse.

[1091] He might kill you next time if you'd tell or she might kill you.

[1092] Exactly.

[1093] So your mom kind of set you up with her friend to live with.

[1094] My mom left me with her friend.

[1095] It was supposed to be X amount of time.

[1096] And then that time came up.

[1097] And then maybe my dad would put it, but he couldn't pick me up.

[1098] So then they found this other woman who had two kids.

[1099] This would be a great place.

[1100] And then she took me in.

[1101] The abandonment.

[1102] It just never goes away.

[1103] Well, yeah.

[1104] So hence that you're going to leave.

[1105] at any moment.

[1106] Yeah.

[1107] At one point she was at David's house, the stepdad, while the mom was gone, and she heard thumping, thumping, thumping, thumping, thumping, thumping, thumping, and she finally got up and walked around the corner and he was choking a woman against the wall and slamming her head into the wall and breaking the dry wall.

[1108] It's so wild hearing it out loud like that.

[1109] From somebody else, I bet.

[1110] You're like, God, that sounds so bad.

[1111] But, okay, yeah, that is true.

[1112] It is true.

[1113] When it's in your head, it's your experience and you've normalized it.

[1114] say it in the book and it's the truest thing ever it's the only normal you've known relative to what you have no clue you're getting some hints that your friends or people around you seem to have it a little better but again you've not known any other and you come to expect all things to be honest these kind of things can only happen to you so many times before and that's the hypervigilance you know it's coming yes you're not even shocked when you come around the corner and someone's getting fucking murdered in front of your face yeah I guess my babysitter OD a couple years ago and I've been getting my ass people.

[1115] That's why high stakes become where you're like, yeah, and okay.

[1116] I know exactly what you're doing.

[1117] We're cleaning this up.

[1118] Exactly.

[1119] Exactly.

[1120] You're going to be embarrassed as fuck after this is over.

[1121] How am I going to mitigate that?

[1122] Your embarrassment so you don't take it out of me. Yeah.

[1123] You know, your grandfather's dying and vomiting and you're, I don't know, how old I was, like a child still.

[1124] And I'm scooping vomit out of his mouth.

[1125] Like, it's no big deal.

[1126] Right.

[1127] Okay.

[1128] This is just what you do.

[1129] You pointed out a bunch.

[1130] You become a master of disassociation.

[1131] You can just walk through anything at some point.

[1132] And the more you do it, the quicker you can get there.

[1133] And I only recently learned I was still doing that in my adult life.

[1134] When I get overwhelmed, I just disappear.

[1135] I was in a relationship where he pointed out, he'd be like, Minka, are you okay?

[1136] And I'd be like, yeah, why?

[1137] What's wrong?

[1138] He'd be like, you just disappear.

[1139] In one of my therapies, I remember in the middle of a session, I was laying down and he asked me something about like, how do you feel?

[1140] I feel like, I feel like my feet are floating.

[1141] And he was like, okay, can you sit up for me?

[1142] And I was like, okay.

[1143] And he's like, name three things in the room that are round, three things in the room that are green.

[1144] And I was like, what are we doing?

[1145] And he's like, you're leaving your body.

[1146] Do you know that you do that?

[1147] And I was like, oh, my God, is that what that was?

[1148] And he brought me back to the present space.

[1149] Huh.

[1150] Yeah, I was like, three things that are green on that thing.

[1151] Yeah.

[1152] So I was like, is this what I've been doing?

[1153] That's what happens when people ask me where I went.

[1154] I just spaced out.

[1155] I go away.

[1156] Oh, this is a fun thing.

[1157] Let me lifted up for one second because I couldn't believe I read this sentence.

[1158] Isn't this all fun?

[1159] I love it actually.

[1160] Yeah, I do.

[1161] It's fascinating.

[1162] No, my wife will always say this.

[1163] Like, if we're on a vacation and she walks away to get a drink, when she comes back and I'm talking to a stranger on a lawn chair, she's like, you will certainly be in their childhood trauma within the four minutes I left.

[1164] I actually live for it.

[1165] I do too.

[1166] Talk to me about all the ways you've been hurt, all the ways you're working on healing that hurt.

[1167] Tell me the most embarrassing thing.

[1168] Let's get into it.

[1169] It's the only thing that interests me, to be honest.

[1170] In sacks, I hate to say, which that we earmark that, yes, that's what's coming back.

[1171] But really quick, there was a point where you knew the daughter of the New York Seltzer Water family.

[1172] I'm obsessed with this clip from Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

[1173] Have you seen that?

[1174] Of course I have.

[1175] You know about that.

[1176] I also was like, am I making this on?

[1177] No, I know.

[1178] If you would have gone into even further detail, it would have been completely unbelievable because this person's life was completely unbelievable.

[1179] I know, I know.

[1180] And we have a good friend Courtney, whose father was the CMO of that company.

[1181] Okay.

[1182] And was kind of trying to manage the dad and the son.

[1183] I imagine you were with the son because the son had all the wild animals.

[1184] He had a bunch of big cats.

[1185] Yes, exactly.

[1186] And in this lifestyle, the rich and famous.

[1187] It was part of the house.

[1188] And he was building a water slide all the way down to the valley from the top of the Hollywood Hills.

[1189] Oh, my God.

[1190] And he would just come to work with a fucking panther on a leash.

[1191] And everyone just have to deal with it.

[1192] Like, talk about trauma.

[1193] Yeah, my boss has this wild.

[1194] Yeah.

[1195] That's what's interesting about your story is like, you're in a broom closet, and then you're in a mansion, and then you're in this apartment, and then you're with the New York South Dakota.

[1196] And it's like, holy smokes, you're seeing every single angle of L .A. Okay, that one made me scream out loud.

[1197] When your mom returns from the, quote, Philippines, who really knows, you have some idea of where she might have been for a year?

[1198] You heard maybe she was arrested.

[1199] Yeah, she was.

[1200] I don't know if that was the time specifically, but there was a time she was gone.

[1201] There was some drug transportation, perhaps for David, perhaps landed her in jail.

[1202] Yeah.

[1203] Now, you moved to New Mexico, which of course you don't want to do.

[1204] Mom's completely out of options, which is crazy.

[1205] It's hard to predict when your mom's going to finally acknowledge she's out of options.

[1206] Like when I'm reading the story, when does she decide, yes, let's fucking get out of here and drive to New Mexico.

[1207] But when you get there, you are embraced by your stepdad David's family.

[1208] And this becomes an enormous blessing.

[1209] Absolutely.

[1210] And they're as traditional as possible, and your grandpa is supporting all these people.

[1211] He's a preacher.

[1212] He's a good, good man. And now you start, or at least from the book, I gather, you're starting to finally craft your identity.

[1213] It seems like here's where you're going to decide who you are.

[1214] Or adapt to my surroundings.

[1215] We're a product of our surroundings.

[1216] And so you just start blending in and sounding like and dressing like and looking like so that you can be accepted and fit in.

[1217] So then this started happening.

[1218] I started talking like this.

[1219] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1220] And I started looking a certain type of thing.

[1221] No eyebrows.

[1222] You know, it's so funny.

[1223] I love how the cat eye is so fashionable now.

[1224] Yeah, that used to be how I made myself look tough.

[1225] Oh, wow.

[1226] And now it's high fashion.

[1227] You're like, man. I beg you to send me some pictures of that period.

[1228] There's some in the book.

[1229] Oh, I'm reading it digitally.

[1230] The hard copy book comes with photos.

[1231] I can show you that.

[1232] Okay, okay.

[1233] I'm dying to see that.

[1234] I'll show you.

[1235] But you land in a predominantly is not a strong enough word.

[1236] You're in a Native American and Latino area.

[1237] You're one of the only Caucasoids there.

[1238] Yes.

[1239] And you have blonde hair at that point, which everyone should know.

[1240] So you stick out like a fucking turd in a punch bowl and you're a target.

[1241] But simultaneously, you now have cousins.

[1242] Yes, thankfully that are all Mexican.

[1243] And I have a family.

[1244] Yeah, yeah.

[1245] And you protect your family.

[1246] And I was protected by having that last name.

[1247] In middle school, it was tough.

[1248] It was when I first got there.

[1249] So I also showed up wearing my mom's clothes, not okay.

[1250] I'm a target for all the things.

[1251] Yeah.

[1252] By the time you get to high school, you're like, this is not happening anymore.

[1253] And so you make friends with the tough girls and you learn how to be tough.

[1254] And I went to like three different high schools.

[1255] Then I find Angel who comes from a family of kickboxers.

[1256] And so I'm like, that should be my best friend.

[1257] She'll teach me how to fight.

[1258] And also, she's really good at school.

[1259] She also is independent.

[1260] She has conviction about who she is.

[1261] Because she has such a strong family that she just didn't need approval of anyone else.

[1262] And I really admired that.

[1263] And I wanted a piece of that.

[1264] Yeah.

[1265] I really don't want to talk about the next part.

[1266] But you take your mother's car while she's passed out, as you do many mornings.

[1267] Every morning.

[1268] Because she doesn't wake up until whenever she wakes up.

[1269] 2 p .m. when I'm home from school.

[1270] Yeah.

[1271] So you would take your mom's car.

[1272] Yeah, I would go pick up my friend so that I didn't have to walk.

[1273] to school by myself.

[1274] And your mother caught you?

[1275] One morning, she was still awake.

[1276] I went to put the keys back and she was standing there with her hand out.

[1277] I went, fuck.

[1278] When you don't have the tools because you're in such fear to go, there's a reason for this.

[1279] I can't walk to school by myself.

[1280] I need to have someone to walk to school with.

[1281] I just use the car to pick her up and then we walk to school together.

[1282] It's not a joy ride, but you're just so crippled and paralyzed with, fear.

[1283] She called my dad, David, to come and discipline me. And he beat the fuck on you.

[1284] Yeah.

[1285] Really bad.

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] Yeah, he did.

[1288] Oh, buddy.

[1289] I'm so sorry.

[1290] It's okay.

[1291] It's okay.

[1292] No, it's not okay.

[1293] It's not okay.

[1294] He was hitting you with a cord.

[1295] Yeah.

[1296] Really bad.

[1297] Did he beat your mom as well?

[1298] He did.

[1299] His answer to anything was violence.

[1300] Yeah.

[1301] And I can even feel sorry for him.

[1302] Oh, God.

[1303] That was the, tools you had you didn't know how to communicate connect you just knew violence and you know my mom immediately regretted it when she saw how bad it was getting and there was no going back once the beast has been unleashed and um that hurts me more than it hurts you kind of thing she said that no he did afterwards oh come here give me a hug because i love you no give me a hug come here and give me a hug and you're like, yeah.

[1304] This peculiar thing happens, and I think if you're on the outside of all of it, it just looks like stupidity.

[1305] But I'll say when you live in fear of violence like that, and then you get to an age where you realize the painful thing's the fear.

[1306] I don't think people that don't relate, can relate to how liberating it is to go, you know what, I don't give a fuck if I get hurt.

[1307] I'm punching back.

[1308] That is the biggest breakthrough in my life.

[1309] life is shitty and low brow and primitive that is to make a decision i'm not going to be afraid of getting hurt anymore i don't care about getting hurt i'm going to hurt back to me was like maybe the biggest dose of freedom i've ever experienced on the outside it's like violence isn't the answer if your whole life is living in fear of violence and you can transcend that and not be afraid of that that is the phoenix which is twisted and then you're perpetuating it yourself and you're caught in the whole thing hurt people hurt people right yes also that was what i was taught was violence is the answer and so i also started moving through school with fighting will be the answer to you bumping into me disrespecting me god forbid yeah that's why i love the book what happened to you this is not what's wrong with you it's what happened to you and so that is helpful and even the people that hurt you going okay what happened to you i mean when you get older and you look back you realize all the players in the sad game are all victims.

[1310] It's all rolling downhill.

[1311] So the day after you get beat by him, you beat up a girl pretty bad in school.

[1312] The same day.

[1313] Some of my shame is there was a period.

[1314] I was a bully.

[1315] I hate that.

[1316] But it's true.

[1317] In elementary, it was like between the brother and the death.

[1318] When I got there and I actually had power, I couldn't resist that.

[1319] Yeah, you got to get it out of school over that, or at least you had to probably leave school over that.

[1320] And then you start yet another high school.

[1321] Now you're old enough to have boyfriends.

[1322] And of course, you pick really great boyfriends.

[1323] I wasn't allowed to have boyfriends, but at a time where my mom and dad were leaving to Boston tomorrow, it was, I don't want to go with you.

[1324] I want to graduate high school with people that I know.

[1325] My boyfriend, his dad said I can stay with them.

[1326] And my dad goes, okay, I think that's a good idea.

[1327] I'll talk to your mom.

[1328] Not who is this person.

[1329] Let me meet them.

[1330] How long have you guys been an item?

[1331] Yeah.

[1332] Where did this person come from?

[1333] It's, oh, you have a boyfriend and his dad will take you?

[1334] Great.

[1335] Perfect.

[1336] We're racing out of New Mexico because we think we're about to be arrested and we're going to go hang in Boston.

[1337] I don't know what the actual truth was.

[1338] All I know is a girl at school came to me and said, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but your dad's about to be in big trouble.

[1339] And so I went home and I said to my mom, my friend at school said dad's about to be in big trouble.

[1340] Her dad's a private investigator.

[1341] And she laughed it off.

[1342] and then the next day or so I came home from school the house was packed in boxes and she said we're moving to Boston and I said I can't move to Boston I've already gone to so many schools please let me just graduate from this school I need to graduate we'll go to school in Boston where so the boyfriend's dad was nice and the boyfriend was not nice and he was 22 and you were 16 and the whole thing is rough his dad was amazing but you recognize this dude Rudy is bad I have to get away from him I have to get out of this He's super controlling.

[1343] He got rid of all of her friends.

[1344] It's all the textbook.

[1345] She's like everything you fucking read about.

[1346] He would go out partying and then call at 2 o 'clock in the morning for me to come pick him up because he's too drunk to drive.

[1347] So I'd have to steal his dad's car to go pick him up.

[1348] I'd be like, I have school in the morning.

[1349] And then he'd be like, ah, I'll just have one of these other girls.

[1350] I wasn't allowed to answer the phone because who knows who'd be calling for him.

[1351] Oh, my God.

[1352] Yeah.

[1353] He was talking up with other people, of course.

[1354] He wanted her to be some weird sex.

[1355] sexual object.

[1356] But again, you're used to controlling men, so I wouldn't keep be doing all this.

[1357] Whatever it takes to keep yourself safe.

[1358] Yeah.

[1359] And he's going to win you back a lot of them, sure.

[1360] No one can ease that pain more so than the one who inflicted it.

[1361] And that leads us to the peep show, because that becomes how you're going to get out of your boyfriend's house while your parents have left up Boston.

[1362] And you do it.

[1363] You get your own apartment at 18.

[1364] and it's your own spot and you get your own furniture.

[1365] Yeah, from rent to center.

[1366] TV and a VCR.

[1367] I thought it's so cool.

[1368] Yeah, it is cool.

[1369] Most 18 -year -olds can't do that.

[1370] You're the entertainment center?

[1371] Yes, I had one too.

[1372] I loved the entertainment center so much.

[1373] So cool.

[1374] You get these glimpses when you're that age, or I would, or it's like, oh, wait, I'm about to be in charge of everything.

[1375] Yeah.

[1376] I'm going to be deciding what happens next.

[1377] Everything will be the way I left it Every time I leave the house And if I clean it, it'll stay clean Yes, yes, I'm a clean freak too All those things Oh, I so relate Okay, here's my question about the peep show You describe it wonderfully It's like you're seeing dudes Jerk off Yeah, how to Yeah, jerking off But it's beyond that, I want to say A panel going up And catching a man Already in that crazy primitive Fucked up Predator It's weird I'm reading that, and I'm watching this chimp show, Chimp Empire on Netflix, which is incredible.

[1378] It's all chimpanzees.

[1379] Cool.

[1380] And I'm like reading those scenes and I'm thinking about what I'm observing with the chimps.

[1381] And it's like, yeah, we're fucking chimps.

[1382] There's a side of us that's just.

[1383] Rimal.

[1384] Yeah.

[1385] How do they work?

[1386] Sorry.

[1387] That's such a stupid question.

[1388] No, it's not.

[1389] Well, I mean, I feel silly for not knowing.

[1390] I'm glad you don't know.

[1391] I mean, yeah.

[1392] What a dork.

[1393] You've never been to a peep shop.

[1394] I know.

[1395] Prude.

[1396] Oh, goody -goody.

[1397] Here she is, the goody -goody.

[1398] Yeah.

[1399] How do they work?

[1400] So you go into an adult video store and sometimes there's an arcade, but that's where you can go in to watch videos.

[1401] And then beyond that will be an area where there are live dancers.

[1402] Okay.

[1403] And so you go into a private booth with a big glass wall in front of you and you put a token in and the divider comes out.

[1404] Oh, got it.

[1405] And then there will be a girl back there.

[1406] And based on however many dollars you put in her slot, she will dance for you and take her clothes off.

[1407] Your co -worker is doing a full -sex show and very performative.

[1408] They're jerking off, but it's glass so you can see.

[1409] You can see everything, yeah.

[1410] Because you've got to interact with them to coax the tips out of them.

[1411] And it's very intimate.

[1412] I thought, I'm not doing what my mom did.

[1413] This is different because there's glass between us.

[1414] There's no contact.

[1415] You can't talk to you.

[1416] but what you are doing is eye contact.

[1417] Looking into the eyes of that black hole.

[1418] Yes.

[1419] Of insatiable, carnal.

[1420] Yeah.

[1421] And their pants are down.

[1422] Yes.

[1423] And it took me a long time to be comfortable with a man's body.

[1424] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1425] I'm like reading that and I'm thinking of, well, numerous people we've interviewed.

[1426] There's so many routes to that.

[1427] there's been the actors that were over -sexualized as young girls and that steals them of their sexuality.

[1428] We've had every version, right, where someone's sexuality is basically stolen from them.

[1429] And I was reading that thinking and some level that had to have really fucked your view.

[1430] I mean, you're seeing the worst 10 minutes of each man's life over and over and over again for six months.

[1431] Do you think it permanently altered your view?

[1432] Permanently, no. But it did take me a long time to be.

[1433] not attracted, but comfortable with looking at my boyfriend's body and not seeing it that way.

[1434] Now that's totally gone.

[1435] I couldn't love it more.

[1436] Thank goodness.

[1437] I have a very healthy relationship to that now.

[1438] But I do remember having a boyfriend, he didn't know he was being so patient and so wonderful with me in that way.

[1439] He didn't know I was working through that, but because he was just so maybe old -fashioned and not totally sexualized that.

[1440] I was able to go at my own pace and get comfortable around that.

[1441] And you're so honest about repeatedly saying you were conditioned and rose to the occasion that your total identity and your worth is whatever a man can give you.

[1442] How did you say it?

[1443] I don't want to misrepresent.

[1444] But you acknowledge this pattern that just got kind of thrown on you.

[1445] Your currency and your value is your beauty and your sexuality.

[1446] And I wonder, so again, back to like, like me meeting you on parenthood and judging a book by its cover and having real no idea.

[1447] I wouldn't have behaved any differently.

[1448] You were awesome, by the way.

[1449] I remember you making me feel so safe.

[1450] You just made me feel like I belonged there.

[1451] And that meant so much to me because I respected you so much.

[1452] You know, I had a hard time on Friday Night Lights.

[1453] So it felt like a new start.

[1454] Now I'm doing it.

[1455] That was surviving.

[1456] This is, I'm an actress.

[1457] I'm an actress.

[1458] I don't even think on Friday lights, did I ever feel comfortable calling myself an actress?

[1459] Really?

[1460] Uh -uh.

[1461] Okay, well, here's now, I'm just remembering this.

[1462] This might be a weird thing that I did detect that maybe I didn't know I detected, but I remember when we had our sex scene, I was like, I'm going to stare you directly in the eyes, and I'm going to let you know I'm not looking at anything.

[1463] I do remember that.

[1464] And I don't know that I've always had that clear of an objective.

[1465] So I don't know what that was about.

[1466] But just I remember going, you're going to be.

[1467] right here and you're going to make sure she knows you're right there.

[1468] That's what the peep show guys were doing.

[1469] No, they were, I'm just kidding.

[1470] I'm kidding.

[1471] I'm kidding.

[1472] You're just like those guys.

[1473] I'm kidding.

[1474] I'm kidding.

[1475] I'm totally kidding.

[1476] I had a hunch.

[1477] You've probably been treated like a sexual object a lot and I want to make sure I'm not doing that.

[1478] And I remember feeling very confident and that's why.

[1479] Because you were such a caretaker and you made me feel so safe.

[1480] Oh, wonderful.

[1481] that I was just finding my feet.

[1482] And those experiences just gave me so much confidence.

[1483] Everyone just made me feel like I deserve to be there.

[1484] You're so good on the show.

[1485] Like now watching it again, you're phenomenal.

[1486] You're so good.

[1487] Your scenes are so great.

[1488] You had to play so many crazy different things.

[1489] Like you'd bump into Adam somewhere and he'd be drunk.

[1490] You had to take me somewhere and I got beat up.

[1491] And then I got to apologize.

[1492] And then I'm asking you advice and it's like you're just bouncing back and forth between like very in control of Max.

[1493] You had this confidence that was really great.

[1494] You're just so great in it.

[1495] Thanks, Dad.

[1496] Yeah, yeah.

[1497] So is it hard for you to hear when you first came in and you were like, Monica loves Lila?

[1498] Is that a hard compliment for you to take if it was a hardworking experience?

[1499] That's a good question.

[1500] Not at all.

[1501] Okay, that's good.

[1502] Because it was a unique time.

[1503] It's complex, right?

[1504] Because my mom's dying of cancer and also this thing is happening.

[1505] And also, I'm coming from having been cheated on and broken heart to now being fed this candy.

[1506] Swept up in Taylor.

[1507] Yeah.

[1508] Hitch is unbelievable.

[1509] Face and body.

[1510] Oh, my God.

[1511] It was hard.

[1512] hard in the sense that I just didn't have the tools to know what I was doing.

[1513] I was in way over my head and I was so green.

[1514] I also didn't know how to be a friend to women yet.

[1515] So I just thought it should happen naturally.

[1516] I thought I can just give all my time and attention to this boy and girls will still be there.

[1517] Right.

[1518] And no. Yeah, you bailed on friends repeatedly for boys just like your mom had bailed on.

[1519] Yeah, yeah.

[1520] But what I was going to ask you is given that history, when I met you, you had just.

[1521] been named sexiest woman alive.

[1522] No, yeah.

[1523] I mean, really, just like that happened while we were shooting.

[1524] So given your past, I imagine people on the outside would be like, oh, my God, can you imagine being named sexiest woman alive?

[1525] That must feel incredible.

[1526] And I imagine it was maybe more complicated for you.

[1527] Was that complicated or was that fine?

[1528] It's interesting because I really was afraid to be sexy.

[1529] Yeah, it was dangerous.

[1530] My publicist and I made a very strong stance against doing sex.

[1531] things.

[1532] Like I never did Maxim.

[1533] We were very calculated in any other times I would do a men's magazine or do anything sexy at all.

[1534] It was very much something I didn't want to do.

[1535] And it was also me insisting on I can do it without using my body the way my mom did it.

[1536] Everything was just such a reaction to that.

[1537] So that one, you know, everyone was like, we should accept this.

[1538] This is a very elegant sexy.

[1539] If we're going to do it, let's do this.

[1540] Even on that was terrified.

[1541] The photographer for Yutza, I was amazing.

[1542] I didn't know how to be sexy.

[1543] Right, right.

[1544] He would go, breathe in and drag your hand up and then exhale.

[1545] He would do it first.

[1546] And I go, okay?

[1547] And then he'd get the shot.

[1548] Yeah.

[1549] Every pose.

[1550] He would do it.

[1551] Did you see there was a moment where I saw it.

[1552] Yeah, yeah, it looked very sexy.

[1553] And that's all Yutzai.

[1554] And I've used that for the rest of my life.

[1555] If I just breathe, that will give something.

[1556] He just made me feel so safe because I didn't do anything he didn't do first.

[1557] Uh -huh.

[1558] And so it was fun.

[1559] Yeah.

[1560] When you were doing the peep show, my assumption is you didn't feel sexy.

[1561] Or did you feel sexy doing that?

[1562] I think I did act sexy.

[1563] Right.

[1564] Because I saw my mom be sexy and I'm wearing my mom's costumes.

[1565] Yeah.

[1566] That are sexy.

[1567] And so I would perform sexy.

[1568] Yes.

[1569] You knew the moves.

[1570] Yeah.

[1571] I sexualized myself then, which is why when it came to not being in survival mode anymore, it was the opposite of sexy is what?

[1572] I would do.

[1573] I remember every once in a while I wear a sexy dress to an event and my agent being like, Minka, more of this.

[1574] And I'm like, okay.

[1575] You know, fittings are always hard.

[1576] I'm like, oh, it's too body conscience.

[1577] My body is too much.

[1578] It's always been a constant struggle with embracing that part of me. Yeah.

[1579] Well, I got another fun one.

[1580] Like the New York Seltzer Water.

[1581] I'm going to read this out loud.

[1582] And Monica, you're going to shit your pants.

[1583] Okay?

[1584] Get ready to shit your pants.

[1585] Your pants.

[1586] Once we had to amputate the gangreneed foot of a houseless man, and I held one end of the saw as the surgeon and I dutifully severed the part of him that would have eventually killed him if left intact.

[1587] Mink has sawed man's foot off.

[1588] Wow.

[1589] Yeah, I sure did.

[1590] Wow.

[1591] You will do what needs doing, sister.

[1592] If I ever murder someone.

[1593] And I need to cut that body up And get rid of the parts And you feel it's justified Like I'll make the case It was me or him Well listen I am very right or die I will bury the body And no one will ever know Wow Wait that was in nursing I was a scrub nurse It wasn't just like out on the street So I've also held several feet of colon in my hand I've also been a part of a craniotomy Seasection any surgery you could imagine Except for open heart I've participated in Wow Yeah Do you ever have any fantasies of returning to that?

[1594] All the time.

[1595] It would be so distracting, but it would be great.

[1596] I miss it all the time.

[1597] Anytime I'm in a hospital, I feel so comfortable.

[1598] I love it so much.

[1599] I miss it so much.

[1600] I watch everything and I long to do it.

[1601] Is there a version where you could do it like four days a month?

[1602] You know, my first hiatus from Friday Night Lights, I was like, I'm going back.

[1603] And I did.

[1604] And then I was swiftly reminded how hard it is and how mean surgeons can be.

[1605] And I was like, fuck this.

[1606] I don't need this.

[1607] I'm an actress.

[1608] I'm a Hollywood actress.

[1609] It's hard, but I'm so good at it.

[1610] I loved the highest stakes, which is in the hospital, like California Hospital downtown.

[1611] The higher the stakes, the more enjoyable for me. And so working at an outpatient surgery center where it's elective surgeries is not really high stakes.

[1612] But I had to do that so that I could have the rest of my days to go on auditions or classes or anything.

[1613] But I think about it all the time.

[1614] And I think sometimes I don't need this shit.

[1615] I can go be a nurse.

[1616] I can go back to the hospital all the time.

[1617] And it's good to have because I can remind myself I am good at something.

[1618] You have a skill.

[1619] You have a marketable skill.

[1620] Because it's our job.

[1621] I'm constantly reminded that I'm not enough or I'm not good enough.

[1622] But that's also where I'm comfortable is always trying to be better and always working at being better.

[1623] But I do think it's really useful to know that you have something that you are very good at.

[1624] Yes.

[1625] Well, listen, just insanely beautiful book.

[1626] I want everyone to read it because I'm a very slow reader.

[1627] and I only listen to books on tape.

[1628] I read nearly the entire book in one day, which is so rare for me. I can't do that just because we're friends.

[1629] I'd run out of gas at probably 40 pages if we're just friends.

[1630] It's a really, really, really touching and beautiful book, and I liked it so much, and I'm really, really proud of you for having written it.

[1631] Thank you, Dad.

[1632] Yeah, yeah.

[1633] I think so many people will read it and feel very seen and less alone.

[1634] And you modeled some incredible stuff.

[1635] Oh, I had one last question.

[1636] How the fuck are you not an addict or are?

[1637] Are you an addict?

[1638] Isn't that amazing?

[1639] You have two parents.

[1640] I know.

[1641] Because your dad, who you adore, you had an evolving relationship with, we left that out.

[1642] But Rick, he was an addict and clearly got his shit together.

[1643] I thought he was.

[1644] But when I talked to him now, he's like, no, I wasn't an addict.

[1645] I just partied.

[1646] Yeah.

[1647] I stopped when I wanted to stop.

[1648] But he was very much in the program.

[1649] Oh, he was?

[1650] Yes.

[1651] And he sponsored lots of men.

[1652] That was his thing.

[1653] He loves helping other men.

[1654] He loves men.

[1655] And he has his men's meetings.

[1656] I bet I've met him.

[1657] I wonder.

[1658] I'm certainly having 20 years of going to meetings around the city.

[1659] I remember going with him to meetings when I was little.

[1660] My mom would send me to him for the weekend or something.

[1661] He would take me with him to a meeting.

[1662] And I remember asking him, can you bring mom here?

[1663] And him being like, she won't do it, kiddo.

[1664] Yeah.

[1665] Is he alive still?

[1666] Oh, yeah.

[1667] Has he read the book?

[1668] He hasn't finished it.

[1669] It's hard for him now.

[1670] Of course.

[1671] I can only imagine him reading this book.

[1672] Yeah, but he's so proud of me. And we have a good thing now.

[1673] We're buddies with boundaries.

[1674] Because it's tough.

[1675] There's always things to work through.

[1676] But we've found a good groove where we know how much time we can spend together.

[1677] Before it's sours.

[1678] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1679] That becomes an art form.

[1680] It's beautiful, too, when you learn how to do it.

[1681] And also, I spent so much time and friction with him because I really just wanted, again, for him to be the dad that I wanted him to be, as opposed to accepting him for who he is and the friction comes when you want a different reality yeah and so when you accept what actually is the friction sort of goes away and you can not take everything so personally and you can just go he's not going to change yeah and the way you see the world and way the way you operate in the world is very different but it's okay and it's not a reflection of you and you're just two different people there's a great saying in a which is expectations are resentments under construction.

[1682] Ooh, I like that.

[1683] So yeah, if you have the expectations of what you want this person to be really good chance, high 90s, you're going to end up with a resentment at some point.

[1684] Yeah.

[1685] Wait, so you're not an addict.

[1686] Oh, yeah.

[1687] When I go to Al -Anon meetings and I hear about love addiction, I've been like, I wonder if I need to go to SLA.

[1688] Yes.

[1689] Sex and love addicts and honest.

[1690] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1691] I've worked through a lot of that.

[1692] I'm still obviously working through these things every day.

[1693] I say this with compassion and understanding.

[1694] I bet it's really hard for you to be attracted to a good man. I bet it seemed really boring.

[1695] It has been, yes.

[1696] So I'll respond to both of them about being an addict.

[1697] I've never seen drugs or partying as sexy because I grew up around it.

[1698] And so it was always gross to me because my mom was always high and smelled like cigarettes and booze.

[1699] And it took her away from me. So there was nothing attractive about it to me. I remember I had a boyfriend who loved cocaine.

[1700] It's so good.

[1701] I can see why he did.

[1702] Well, yeah, but I remember being angry about it.

[1703] And then I finally did try it because I'm like, let me see what this thing is about.

[1704] And I loved it.

[1705] Oh, yeah, yeah, it's wonderful.

[1706] I get it.

[1707] That's amazing.

[1708] Yeah, yeah.

[1709] I'm optimistic.

[1710] This is making me a better version of myself.

[1711] While the reality is probably very much not that.

[1712] Then I tried it another time.

[1713] And I hate it.

[1714] I hate it.

[1715] I hate it.

[1716] I I hated it so much.

[1717] I hated not having control of myself.

[1718] I never did it again.

[1719] It's just not for me. And I think it's because I have such a deep fear of losing control or becoming an addict or being like my mom.

[1720] But my dad wasn't necessarily an addict because he was like, no, I chose to stop when I wanted to stop.

[1721] But very weird.

[1722] He's in the program.

[1723] Any sponsors dudes?

[1724] Yeah, he's an addict.

[1725] I don't know why he's telling you.

[1726] I know.

[1727] That's fine.

[1728] We're not supposed to take other people's inventory.

[1729] I'm going to tell he's an addict.

[1730] Yeah.

[1731] No, I know.

[1732] Isn't that interesting?

[1733] He's not an overeaters Anonymous.

[1734] You're not accidentally in one of these groups.

[1735] People will come to me and they're like, I don't really know if I belong here.

[1736] I'm like, have you ever stopped by an overeaters?

[1737] No, of course not.

[1738] You know you don't have that.

[1739] Yeah, I love that.

[1740] Are you ever at a gambling anonymous mean?

[1741] No, because you don't gamble.

[1742] Right.

[1743] And these programs are amazing.

[1744] I mean, I love the beverage program and then the Al -Anon is the thinking program.

[1745] And again, it's just evidence of how important it is for us to share stories because those rooms are where I felt seen, too, because there was codependence everywhere.

[1746] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1747] You're the caretaker of the addict.

[1748] And so, of course, as an adult, you're going to be the caretaker of another narcissist.

[1749] I didn't intend to write a book that people would feel seen.

[1750] I'm so thankful that that's the byproduct of what has happened.

[1751] You know, and I didn't intend for it to be so therapy involved.

[1752] Therapeutic, cathartic.

[1753] Well, I didn't mean to.

[1754] Therapy heavy.

[1755] Therapy heavy, thank you.

[1756] But because I was so deep in therapy while writing it, I included all this stuff.

[1757] And now it's turned into this thing where people are telling me how thankful and they see themselves.

[1758] And what a beautiful byproduct of I just committed to telling the truth.

[1759] Yeah.

[1760] The truth is very appealing.

[1761] Was there an inciting incident that drove you to therapy?

[1762] The initial introduction to therapy was my mom having cancer and my dad going, you need to go to therapy.

[1763] You need to sort this relationship out with your mom before she dies.

[1764] Then after that, it was just relationship shit.

[1765] and just becoming addicted to learning about myself.

[1766] The talk therapy gets you so far where I call awareness hell, where I'm like, all right, I've gathered enough information.

[1767] I now know what all the shit is, but how do I change it?

[1768] Yeah, exactly.

[1769] How do you embody these things?

[1770] Now what?

[1771] Yeah.

[1772] I have found a life coach that really changed things for me. Oh, wow.

[1773] Which sounds silly.

[1774] I remember a life coach.

[1775] I'd be like a life coach, okay.

[1776] But when I finally started working with one, she gave me, like, action -oriented behaviors that would change old habits and ways of being in relationship or ways of coping.

[1777] I remember saying to her, I'm not going to say thank you for those flowers.

[1778] And she was like, why not?

[1779] And I was like, because I didn't ask for them.

[1780] You don't get to just send me flowers.

[1781] And then now we're talking again.

[1782] And she was like, oh, this is such a great opportunity to unpack some of your red flags and your negative patterns.

[1783] I'm like, what do you mean?

[1784] And she goes, do you off and operate in protest behavior?

[1785] And I said, what's protest behavior?

[1786] And she goes, you want to give them the middle finger silently?

[1787] And I went, oh, I do think I do that a lot.

[1788] Yeah.

[1789] Wow.

[1790] Is it wrong?

[1791] Yeah.

[1792] I was like, I felt like that was a really strong way to deal with things.

[1793] Just remove myself quietly.

[1794] And she was like, no, you're an adult now.

[1795] You can advocate for yourself with your words.

[1796] When you were young, it wasn't safe.

[1797] Are you a stonewaller in a relationship?

[1798] Can you shut down and just deal with, the awkwardness and punish the person?

[1799] I don't do that.

[1800] I want to communicate.

[1801] I'm not afraid of confrontation.

[1802] I do want to get in there.

[1803] But once someone has showed any sign of going away, I will go away.

[1804] Yeah, yeah.

[1805] Very quietly and very swiftly.

[1806] I guess that's what I made me mean.

[1807] Well, again, like yesterday's phone call, that was like you perceived that as this was going away.

[1808] It's like, no, no, no, no. We don't have to do it.

[1809] I don't want to do it.

[1810] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1811] I'll let you off the hook before you have to tell me because then you're never let down.

[1812] Exactly.

[1813] Yeah, I think there's been a lot of times I've been a terrible person to be in a relationship with because there's part of me that's just like, you want to fucking battle?

[1814] Let's party.

[1815] I've been with the best of them.

[1816] That's where we want to go.

[1817] Also in my platonic female friendships, because of my dad, he's so opinionated and tells the truth and he's very New York.

[1818] And he's like, to be a good friend is to tell the truth.

[1819] to be brutal with it.

[1820] And so I thought he was God for a long time.

[1821] And everything he said was right.

[1822] And so in my friendships, I would be like, you're a terrible friend.

[1823] You're doing X, Y, and Z wrong.

[1824] And this is why.

[1825] There was no sensitivity or consideration for people's feelings or the audience.

[1826] And so I was also a hard person to be friends with because I was brutally honest.

[1827] And I took everything so personally and everything was about me. Yeah.

[1828] At least you were super attractive It made the medicine a little easier probably to swallow I was just like already out of my league With most people I dated But like look at this surprise coming your way Yeah Yes and so to your point with like healthy men I did find boring So I would push away emotionally available men You're supposed to just be my friend Because I don't have to work for your love So you get to go in this category And I'm gonna go fight for that person's love I was even thinking I was reading the chapter right before you got here about landing in Austin, that excitement of starting this thing, meeting Zach Guilford, and going like, oh, and then we got along immediately, and he's so sweet.

[1829] I'm reading it, I'm like, yeah, there's no way they're going to date.

[1830] Exactly.

[1831] Yeah, like, he probably would be the guy if I can pick for you.

[1832] I'm like, yes, go there.

[1833] And in my mind, I'm like, she'll never go there.

[1834] No, there needs to be a plausible threat of chaos around the corner.

[1835] Exactly.

[1836] Exactly.

[1837] Well, that was the whole show, Saracen and life imitating art. Yeah, but wait, who's, Taylor Kitch?

[1838] Riggins.

[1839] Thank you.

[1840] Oh, my God.

[1841] Oh, my God.

[1842] Yeah, I was like, are you a Saracen girl or a Riggins girl?

[1843] Oh, well.

[1844] What were you?

[1845] I was Saracen.

[1846] Oh, good.

[1847] I like nice boys in theory.

[1848] I don't know.

[1849] In theory, in theory.

[1850] But, yeah, in real life, I don't know.

[1851] I think I'm paper.

[1852] It's starting to become more of a nice guy.

[1853] I know.

[1854] The nicest.

[1855] Wait, can we talk about one more thing, actually, because you asked her about if she was raising a child.

[1856] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1857] And I read a little bit that you, which this is heartbreaking, but you have talked about ending the gene pool basically with you.

[1858] And I just recently had this thought of if I don't have a kid, I'm actually ending, because my mom has two sisters, they don't have kids.

[1859] So that's the end of a family line, which feels so scary and also feels like, well, maybe that's the end of some past -down trauma.

[1860] Yeah.

[1861] It's a weird thing to hold both.

[1862] And how are you feeling about that?

[1863] I feel very peaceful about that.

[1864] You do.

[1865] Yeah.

[1866] I feel very peaceful about dying.

[1867] I don't feel the need to leave a legacy or anything, those kinds of things.

[1868] I feel very at peace with seeing what's next.

[1869] You know, when your mother dies in your arms, you have a different relationship to death.

[1870] And also a lot of plant medicine helps you be very curious about what comes next.

[1871] Yeah.

[1872] I really.

[1873] loved how to change your mind.

[1874] Michael Pollan talked so much about the experience of watching these people white -knuckling death and then having a psilocybin ceremony and then dying with a smile on their face.

[1875] And I identify with that.

[1876] How often do you do shrooms?

[1877] I love mushrooms.

[1878] I do them as often as the opportunity presents.

[1879] Oh, okay.

[1880] I've done them quite a bit and I've had a range of experiences.

[1881] I've completely lost my mind and not known what time is and who this person is.

[1882] I remember I remember looking at my boyfriend at the time, being like, you're here and that's okay, and him giving me a pineapple.

[1883] And me, like, paintings were melting off the wall.

[1884] Yeah, yeah.

[1885] But then learned the right dose.

[1886] And so now I'll have little journeys with my girlfriends where we're, like, find answers and connect and tell the truth.

[1887] And I now know how to facilitate the right experience.

[1888] Yeah.

[1889] It's not a party thing for me. I know people now are like, you want to do.

[1890] some mushrooms.

[1891] I'm like, my God, no. Right.

[1892] At this big loud event with all these unpredictable humans.

[1893] I need the right music.

[1894] I need the right scent.

[1895] I need the right lighting.

[1896] I also need to have different stations set up.

[1897] If we need to change our minds, if someone's having, we can go out here or we can do this.

[1898] And I need the right food and beverages ready.

[1899] Did you happen here in the episode where Monica did them?

[1900] No. I forced her to do them.

[1901] Really?

[1902] Well, let's not use the word forced when it has to do with drugs.

[1903] But yes, you did.

[1904] It was one of the best things I've ever witnessed.

[1905] It was crazy.

[1906] It started bad.

[1907] Really bad.

[1908] When how during COVID, none of us had done shrooms.

[1909] It was a group of us.

[1910] Dax was the only one who had done them, but he wasn't doing them.

[1911] They wanted to microdose and I'm like, there's no point.

[1912] Exactly.

[1913] So it started there.

[1914] They all took these and I'm like, this isn't, there's a waste of your time.

[1915] Exactly.

[1916] Then everyone's sitting around.

[1917] They're not, blah, blah, blah.

[1918] And then I'm like, let me show you guys what you're supposed to take.

[1919] And then so I break out some stems and caps and I hand them all out to everybody.

[1920] And then when you're not doing them.

[1921] Yeah, it must be.

[1922] And everyone's talking about whether or not they can feel it.

[1923] You can only handle about 12 minutes.

[1924] If you're wondering if you could feel it, you're not feeling it.

[1925] Right.

[1926] I was like, I'm going to go inside and hang until it starts because I can't go through this.

[1927] Like, is that plant?

[1928] Is anyone's, no, that's not.

[1929] I was like, oh my God, this is maddening.

[1930] So I went inside.

[1931] Now, mind you, I have promised Monica, you don't need to worry.

[1932] I will be there and don't be scared.

[1933] I mean, this is years in the making of him trying to be like, you should do it.

[1934] You should do it.

[1935] you should do it.

[1936] And I'm circling back a goody -gody.

[1937] I've never done any.

[1938] Although she threw up a hot dog in her friends' cookies.

[1939] And she stole her friend's cookies, too.

[1940] That's how this whole goody -goody thing started.

[1941] I said, I like that you're a goody -goody who's also stole the cookies.

[1942] I know.

[1943] It was all compliments, if you recall, if I need to remind you.

[1944] Okay.

[1945] Well, I don't do drugs at all.

[1946] I'm not a druggie.

[1947] Well, I don't.

[1948] I would argue this is medicine.

[1949] Exactly.

[1950] But, you know, I've just never experimented with any of those things.

[1951] So it was a big hurdle for me to do.

[1952] Very brave of you.

[1953] And then.

[1954] Thank you.

[1955] Then he went out of the room.

[1956] She's starting to trip.

[1957] And I'm like inside watching TV.

[1958] Like they're all outside.

[1959] And then I think someone comes in maybe and says like, Monica's very upset.

[1960] Okay.

[1961] Oh, shit.

[1962] Well, because my hands were turning to grandma hands.

[1963] And then they were shrinking.

[1964] It was so weird.

[1965] Sometimes I can still like kind of see it.

[1966] How many grams did she have?

[1967] I didn't weigh yet.

[1968] But I bet she had about two grams.

[1969] Perfect.

[1970] Yeah.

[1971] And then it was all of our first times.

[1972] You know, it's contagious.

[1973] So I'm like, huh.

[1974] And then somebody else sees me doing that.

[1975] And it's like, yeah.

[1976] And it started to feel so claustrophobic.

[1977] Someone's hair was looking so bright and strange.

[1978] And then Kristen came out and she looked weird.

[1979] Yeah, I can't look at people.

[1980] Yeah.

[1981] It was so scary.

[1982] And I was like having a panic attack.

[1983] Yeah.

[1984] So Kristen went back in and got you, I think.

[1985] How'd you fix it?

[1986] I said, let's go for a walk.

[1987] And then we left the backyard.

[1988] Yeah.

[1989] And we went out in the street.

[1990] And I said, look at all the cars.

[1991] They're sleeping.

[1992] And she was like, oh, I go, look at that house.

[1993] It's a set.

[1994] We're on the back lot.

[1995] I was making me emotional.

[1996] And I said, I'll forget this sentence.

[1997] Yeah.

[1998] You said, you can choose.

[1999] You can choose right now.

[2000] This can be scary or you can choose to embrace it.

[2001] And I was like, okay, I guess it is a choice.

[2002] I'm going to choose to embrace it.

[2003] And then I did.

[2004] I started doing all the tricks, like the tricks that work when you're on shrooms.

[2005] And then it became.

[2006] this incredible thing.

[2007] It's such a good life lesson.

[2008] I want to know what the tricks are.

[2009] Well, the cars thing.

[2010] Next time you're on streams with people, point out that they're sleeping.

[2011] They are sleeping.

[2012] They are sleeping.

[2013] They're waiting.

[2014] They're waiting to be woken up so they can take someone somewhere.

[2015] Yes.

[2016] And, you know, all houses look like a movie set.

[2017] And I'm like, let's go for a walk on this set.

[2018] Let's see what other houses they built.

[2019] I was also so skeptical of him.

[2020] I was like, how do you know this?

[2021] Right.

[2022] Are you on trams too?

[2023] Because how do you know?

[2024] comprehend that I wasn't because I knew all the tricks.

[2025] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2026] Oh, that's such beautiful caretaking.

[2027] It was.

[2028] It was really great.

[2029] That touches me so much.

[2030] That's such a beautiful role to assume.

[2031] And I love that so much.

[2032] It's my favorite thing.

[2033] Yeah, it was really, really, really fun to watch the turn from the terror to the smile.

[2034] And then she started saying some fantastic stuff.

[2035] I wish I'd have written all of them.

[2036] And then at one point she'd just like, I forget what you said.

[2037] I'm grateful.

[2038] for this experience.

[2039] What do you think changed for you?

[2040] It was that line of you have the control right now.

[2041] You can choose.

[2042] It's a life lesson.

[2043] Things can be scary, but you can choose.

[2044] And you have much more control over everything than you think.

[2045] I'm a very fearful person, so it's applicable to a lot of things in my life.

[2046] Absolutely.

[2047] That's so beautiful.

[2048] It makes me think of when I did ayahuasca, I remember I was so prepped for that.

[2049] And I had someone in my life that really, really set me up.

[2050] And he said, we're also programmed to be afraid of darkness and to be afraid of scary things.

[2051] And that's when we get in trouble is when we want to resist the darkness or the scary stuff.

[2052] But if you can just remember to stay curious and just ask, what are you trying to show me?

[2053] What do I need to see?

[2054] Because whatever you resist persists in life and in medicine.

[2055] Yeah.

[2056] It will just beat you harder with the lesson unless you open yourself.

[2057] self up to it and go, okay, tell me what I need to see.

[2058] And I love that so much.

[2059] Okay, here's one weird aspect for me about being on shrooms.

[2060] And I'm curious if you feel this, I feel defenseless, which is a curious feeling for me, because of all the things I just told you, like I have dedicated myself to being fearless and in charge.

[2061] And so I remember many times, like in Santa Barbara, when I lived there, walking around with friends, tons of shrooms and thinking, well, if anyone wants to beat me up, they can.

[2062] I don't know how to defend myself.

[2063] And what's really funny is then you learn later that it's actually separating your ability to talk as strongly with your identity center and so because my identity is offline this one I built I'm indomitable I can't access it and I remember what it feels like to feel vulnerable yet I still enjoy it it is one of the more curious parts of shrooms for me is that I feel so vulnerable you surrender you have to because I know I'm vulnerable I actually have to move through the world smiling at everyone and then you're like Oh, that's also the solution.

[2064] Not having to dominate everyone.

[2065] You can just be available to everyone and trust that no one's going to hurt you, which is a scary proposition.

[2066] But it's amazing when you finally put your dukes down and you see like, oh, I don't have to keep fighting.

[2067] Yeah.

[2068] No one's out to get me anymore.

[2069] That's a hard one for me to learn.

[2070] I don't have to outsource my safety to anything or anyone.

[2071] I am safe now because I'm a grown up and I'm okay.

[2072] No one gets to hurt me anymore.

[2073] No, but that one's the one that's the hardest for me. to catch up.

[2074] Mark, I guess he's a doctor, will say, you have money, you're big, who's going to hurt you?

[2075] And I have to really think, like, I guess he's right, is he?

[2076] Are we sure, Mark?

[2077] Right, right.

[2078] Well, Minka, this has been a blast.

[2079] Yeah.

[2080] I'm really glad you wrote a book so that we can hang out for a couple hours.

[2081] Thank you.

[2082] I remember, too, being like, I wonder if I'll ever do a taxi show.

[2083] Here we go.

[2084] Here we are.

[2085] Oh, I'm so delighted you came.

[2086] Me too.

[2087] Thank you for having me, you guys.

[2088] And I'm only going to ask for one commitment.

[2089] If I ever call you, the assumption you should be making is, I'm here.

[2090] I'm not going.

[2091] I didn't call you to go away.

[2092] I'm here.

[2093] All right.

[2094] I adore you.

[2095] I hope everybody reads your book.

[2096] Tell me everything.

[2097] It's so, so good.

[2098] Buy it for your friends.

[2099] Buy it for strangers on the street.

[2100] Buy and throw it in the trash.

[2101] Tell me everything.

[2102] You know what?

[2103] No, please.

[2104] I can talk to you guys forever.

[2105] Yeah, yeah, yeah, do it.

[2106] I remember struggling with this part of letting it out.

[2107] And I remember my coach reminding me of one of Eckhart Toll's books where he prefaces it with, this book might not be for you.

[2108] You might not relate to it.

[2109] It might not make sense to you.

[2110] And that's okay, but don't throw it away.

[2111] Just put it back on the shelf because it will mean something to someone else.

[2112] Oh, yeah.

[2113] I like that.

[2114] Yeah.

[2115] So don't throw it away.

[2116] Put it in one of those public libraries that they have on the streets.

[2117] Just lean it up against a wall somewhere.

[2118] Some will take it.

[2119] Well, there's probably a kid you can see wandering around.

[2120] Who might need it.

[2121] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2122] I love you.

[2123] I adore you.

[2124] Thank you.

[2125] Everybody read.

[2126] Tell me everything.

[2127] I can't wait for you to come back.

[2128] Open invite.

[2129] Thank you, Monica.

[2130] Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

[2131] Okay.

[2132] Big update.

[2133] Let's get right into it.

[2134] Okay.

[2135] So I'm home now.

[2136] Okay.

[2137] I see that you're in your apartment.

[2138] Yeah.

[2139] It's hot.

[2140] I'm sweating a little.

[2141] I see that you're a little shiny.

[2142] Well, not in a negative way.

[2143] I just thought, oh, yeah, it looks warm now.

[2144] Well, I also just went to my witch.

[2145] Okay.

[2146] And had some treatment.

[2147] Yeah.

[2148] So I'm a little shiny because that, but also it's hot.

[2149] Did she use acid?

[2150] Always.

[2151] Always.

[2152] She loves her acid.

[2153] She's like Timothy Leary.

[2154] She's so pro -acid.

[2155] She really is.

[2156] Okay.

[2157] So.

[2158] Really quick.

[2159] Do you need to get like a wet towel or anything and dab off?

[2160] No, I don't want to why.

[2161] I don't think I'm supposed to wipe off the acids.

[2162] Okay.

[2163] Okay.

[2164] Great.

[2165] Are you sweating in your armpits?

[2166] Um, no. I don't sweat very much as you know.

[2167] That's right.

[2168] It's not for you.

[2169] Because I'm so dehydrated.

[2170] No duty, no sweat.

[2171] No, I definitely didn't make a goodie.

[2172] Okay, so your phone, last time we spoke, the last time the Armcherry's knew, you were very happy in your London hotel.

[2173] Things were going great.

[2174] You were going shopping the next day.

[2175] Ashok gets through it.

[2176] He's a better man than me, we decided.

[2177] And then what happened?

[2178] And then a couple days after that, it was my mom's birthday.

[2179] Happy birthday, Nirmie.

[2180] I bought her a nice present.

[2181] Would you get her?

[2182] I never really get her presents for her birthday.

[2183] That's not a thing we do.

[2184] Oh, it's not.

[2185] Well, it's a thing parents do for us.

[2186] Right.

[2187] It's not a two -way street traditionally.

[2188] No. So we were at Herod's, classic.

[2189] Yeah, textbook shopping in London, right?

[2190] Herod's.

[2191] Yeah.

[2192] And my mom was looking at this bracelet.

[2193] It was a Prada bracelet, leather.

[2194] Oh, leather Prada bracelet.

[2195] Okay.

[2196] Kind of thin and there was no price on it and she was like, oh, I like these.

[2197] I wonder how much they cost.

[2198] And we anyway, we got distracted and they were hungry so we didn't get to check on that price.

[2199] Right.

[2200] So then on her birthday, I went and I got the bracelet.

[2201] Secretly got it.

[2202] Yes.

[2203] And then presented it.

[2204] It went great.

[2205] She's so happy.

[2206] Oh, I'm sweating so much.

[2207] And, okay, so, you know, we're thriving off of this great present.

[2208] Speaking of, she just texted, Sam.

[2209] Oh, my gosh.

[2210] Did she love her present, though?

[2211] She loved it.

[2212] Did she say, Monica, Monica, that's my normal impersonation.

[2213] It's not bad.

[2214] Monica, this is too much.

[2215] No, she didn't say that.

[2216] Okay, good.

[2217] She took it with a smile.

[2218] Now I know where you get it from.

[2219] No, no, she did feel like, oh, wow, this is extravagant.

[2220] Oh, good, good.

[2221] I know.

[2222] She deserves it.

[2223] And the quality, the texture, whatever, it's pretty casual.

[2224] So she can wear it day to day.

[2225] Right.

[2226] Wear it to Lubby's her favorite cafeteria or whatever it's called that you can't remember.

[2227] Something like that.

[2228] Lubby's cafeteria.

[2229] So all to say, we're having a great mom birthday day.

[2230] And we go to.

[2231] this, can I even call it a restaurant?

[2232] Okay, it's like a pub, I guess.

[2233] Listen, I guess it's important that I say this part.

[2234] I didn't want to go there.

[2235] Is that, is that important that you say that part?

[2236] Uh -huh.

[2237] Uh -huh.

[2238] Because I'm right, you know, as you'll find out in a second.

[2239] You know, it's just this random place.

[2240] And you like to, you get a list of all the best places and you don't want to waste a meal, right?

[2241] That's the, your position?

[2242] Yes.

[2243] That's how I track.

[2244] It's important to me to have good food and to try the places.

[2245] But it was my mom's birthday, and I was being really cognizant of this.

[2246] It was like, don't, you know, whatever they want is fine.

[2247] I don't care.

[2248] Ladies' choice.

[2249] We go into this place.

[2250] There's nobody in.

[2251] There's like two people in there.

[2252] Okay.

[2253] We order.

[2254] Great sign, by the way.

[2255] You don't, you don't have to tell me that.

[2256] I am always looking for, for me, the high watermark of a restaurant is you have to wake up the hostess because they've been sitting.

[2257] sitting there for so long, they fell asleep without any customer.

[2258] That's when I know I'm in a great spot.

[2259] Yeah.

[2260] So we order, we sit, we're chatting, everything's great.

[2261] And my phone is on the table.

[2262] We have a bunch of bags, as I said, they're the prodig bag from the bracelet.

[2263] There's, you know, fancy bags.

[2264] Yeah, you're basically advertising.

[2265] I know.

[2266] We're sitting ducks.

[2267] But this woman comes in looking all scragles, you know.

[2268] Dishevelled?

[2269] And she comes up and she has like, you know, crazy eyes.

[2270] And I was like, oh, no, like this is a bad situation.

[2271] And I know that she's going to try to steal.

[2272] So I am paying very close attention.

[2273] Well, this is a thing.

[2274] Okay, I guess this is also a PSA.

[2275] In Europe, this is a thing.

[2276] Okay.

[2277] And you have to be really careful because it's all planned out.

[2278] Like, they try to talk to you and then somebody else comes and will steal something under your, like, as a distraction.

[2279] It's a whole thing.

[2280] And I remember when I studied abroad in college in London, I was warned about this then.

[2281] And it was like, be careful and always hold your backpack in front.

[2282] And, you know.

[2283] Yeah, yeah.

[2284] But I forgot.

[2285] Yeah, you made the mistake of trusting the world.

[2286] It's a good mistake to make.

[2287] It is a good one to make, though.

[2288] I still believe in it.

[2289] Okay, good.

[2290] I still believe in it.

[2291] Okay.

[2292] So she has crazy eyes, and I'm immediately focused on the bags and purses.

[2293] put this paper down on the table, it was laminated, and it had this weird animal, like, kind of cat -looking thing on it.

[2294] No, no. Anytime someone's got laminated paper, I'm out.

[2295] Well, exactly.

[2296] And she was just pointing, she wasn't speaking any English words.

[2297] She wasn't saying any words.

[2298] She was just pointing to the weird cat, like a spot on the paper over and over and over again.

[2299] And I just started saying, no, no, no, no, no. Right, okay.

[2300] Right.

[2301] No. Right.

[2302] No, no, no, no, no. No, not here.

[2303] Yes.

[2304] What's the hotel, or not hotel?

[2305] What's the restaurant staff doing?

[2306] They're asleep at the wheel.

[2307] So, literally, they don't see any of this.

[2308] Okay.

[2309] So I'm saying, no, no, no, no. And then she leaves.

[2310] And then I looked at my dad and I said, yeah, that's a whole thing here.

[2311] They come and they try to steal your stuff.

[2312] Basically, I was bragging that I knew.

[2313] Uh -huh, sure, sure, uh -huh.

[2314] Yeah, sounds like something I would do.

[2315] And that I had saved.

[2316] us all because I knew.

[2317] You want a hero.

[2318] You want a hero's welcome.

[2319] I did.

[2320] And then about 10 minutes later we're getting ready to go.

[2321] And I start feeling around and looking, phone is gone.

[2322] Oh, boy.

[2323] You got to hand it to her.

[2324] She had some quick hands.

[2325] A hundred percent.

[2326] She had skills.

[2327] She earned it.

[2328] Yeah.

[2329] She had placed the paper on my phone.

[2330] Smart.

[2331] Maybe a tape on the back.

[2332] Well, either tape.

[2333] That's what I would do double -sided tape.

[2334] And then you pick up.

[2335] the piece of paper and the phone stuck to it.

[2336] No, but that's high risk, because it could fall.

[2337] But if it falls, you go, oh, my God, sorry, it's something sticky on the back of this.

[2338] Totally denial.

[2339] Even though she didn't speak any English, she wouldn't be able to say shit.

[2340] You would have to answer for her, she must have some sticky on the back of there.

[2341] Now I know why she laminated it.

[2342] She has sticky shit all over everything.

[2343] Ew.

[2344] Gross.

[2345] Okay, well, maybe she did that because that is smart.

[2346] Or I think really, it's just sneaky.

[2347] They know when they're grabbing the paper to grab the phone underneath.

[2348] Slight a hand.

[2349] Yes.

[2350] But you love magic.

[2351] You should have loved this.

[2352] This was magic.

[2353] I had a feeling you were going to try to spin this as a positive.

[2354] Well, so far, so good.

[2355] I mean, we got some content out of it.

[2356] Yeah.

[2357] You were right.

[2358] You were vindicated.

[2359] That's good.

[2360] That was good.

[2361] But she did get away with the phone.

[2362] Everyone starts panicking.

[2363] And I think it's good.

[2364] it was good that I was with my parents because they were in such disarray over this that I had to just be calm and I was like, it's fine, I just was really chill.

[2365] It's like, it's fine, it's not a big deal.

[2366] Could have been my laptop and it's fine.

[2367] Now you kind of know my role in life.

[2368] It's like everyone around me is kind of, you know, they get wound up.

[2369] I don't know what their choice but did not care about anything.

[2370] Someone's got to not care.

[2371] Yeah, but it's a little stressful when it's your issue.

[2372] Like it was my, My issue, but I had to, you know, kind of...

[2373] Comfort everyone.

[2374] So then I was without a phone in London, and I had to get one.

[2375] I got one, but I had to get a English London SIM card that wasn't going to work in the United States.

[2376] And so I did that, which was fine, but, you know, sucked.

[2377] That all sucked, because, you know, we had to go to the Applesort, and then we had to go to the random carrier place.

[2378] Were you able to lock it from your mom's phone?

[2379] Yes.

[2380] Okay, great.

[2381] Mm -hmm.

[2382] It said it was pending because I wasn't, we weren't in Wi -Fi, but I assume that's all fine.

[2383] Okay.

[2384] So, yeah, so then I had this London phone and I couldn't text anyone, so I was kind of using WhatsApp a little bit.

[2385] I couldn't get my email on the phone because I couldn't remember the password to my email.

[2386] And then the two -step verification process went to my phone.

[2387] Of course, yeah.

[2388] Ugh.

[2389] So stressful.

[2390] And then for me, the main fear was how will I get home?

[2391] Like, how will I?

[2392] Because your flight information's on there.

[2393] Yeah, and that was okay.

[2394] Because I thought, you know, I'll just look on the computer early and, like, write it all down.

[2395] But mainly it was about getting picked up.

[2396] Like, we just take for granted how often we're just texting.

[2397] I'm here.

[2398] Meet me here.

[2399] I mean, it was so old school.

[2400] I had to, you know, I, I WhatsApped Christian and said, hey, I'm in London and I need to be picked up, but I don't know, I won't have a phone.

[2401] You know, I gave him all the info and he's like, okay, that's fine.

[2402] George will pick you up at arrivals.

[2403] I was like, okay.

[2404] And then, you know, I'm just getting my luggage and I was like, what is arrivals?

[2405] Like luggage or, you know, it's just panicky.

[2406] It is so.

[2407] panicky.

[2408] We're so late because we had to sit on the tarmac for so long.

[2409] And then they couldn't get the jet bridge to connect.

[2410] So I also thought, oh, no, what if he leaves?

[2411] How will I know if he leaves?

[2412] And you can't Uber because you don't have a phone.

[2413] Exactly.

[2414] And I'll have to ask a stranger.

[2415] Maybe I'll see if I can find any arm cherries.

[2416] Yeah, sure.

[2417] They would love to drive.

[2418] But he was there.

[2419] He said, though, after he said, I was getting worried.

[2420] Of course.

[2421] Think how panicked he was.

[2422] He's thinking you landed an hour ago and we're wandering around looking for him and couldn't find him and now you're, yeah, very stressful.

[2423] You know, I thought about that too.

[2424] It's like, well, I'm so late.

[2425] He's probably wondering if I'm looking for him and then maybe he is moving locations because he's now looking for me. Oh, wow.

[2426] How many days ago was this?

[2427] When did you get home?

[2428] I got home yesterday.

[2429] Okay.

[2430] So this just happened yesterday.

[2431] Yeah, the airport, yeah.

[2432] Yeah.

[2433] Now, did any, was there any upside?

[2434] Like, did you find that without your phone you had some anxiety, uncomfortableness, but then that subsided and you found you were more calm.

[2435] Anything like that?

[2436] Not having your phone?

[2437] I was hoping for that.

[2438] I wanted that, but no. No. Like, did you read a book instead?

[2439] Do you have to turn to old technology to entertain yourself at night?

[2440] No. I just used my computer.

[2441] Oh, okay.

[2442] All right, then.

[2443] Yeah.

[2444] Yeah.

[2445] It was stressful.

[2446] I would not recommend getting your phone stolen in another country.

[2447] Yep.

[2448] Yeah.

[2449] You're going to want to do that state side.

[2450] Yep.

[2451] Exactly.

[2452] So, yeah, so that was that I got taken advantage of, but it's okay.

[2453] She has a hard life, probably.

[2454] And, you know, I don't want to trade places with her.

[2455] That's for sure.

[2456] Well, this isn't what my mom said, but we can kind of apply it, which is like in line.

[2457] you can either be the person taking shit or having your shit taken.

[2458] Probably rather have my shit taken.

[2459] Yes, I would.

[2460] I'd rather take a shit is what I, if all the options.

[2461] All three.

[2462] Yeah.

[2463] Just take a shit as opposed to have my shit taken or takes shit.

[2464] Yeah, take a shit's number one.

[2465] Then have your shit taken, then take shit.

[2466] Mm -hmm.

[2467] That's the order.

[2468] It's interesting that the only difference between take shit and taking a shit is I and G, but dramatically different things.

[2469] Wow.

[2470] You're right.

[2471] Oh, wait.

[2472] No. He's not yet a ding ding -ding dingles?

[2473] Yeah.

[2474] No, darn.

[2475] It's for next episode.

[2476] Okay, Easter egg then.

[2477] Okay, great.

[2478] Anyway, so that's my big update.

[2479] That's a whopper.

[2480] That is a whopper.

[2481] Oh, and then when I got home, I had to, well, that was, I was immediately meeting Rob and David to record.

[2482] like as I landed.

[2483] And, of course, everything took forever.

[2484] So I had to tell them I was going to be late and I didn't really know how I was going to tell them.

[2485] So I had to ask George to use his phone.

[2486] Oh, boy.

[2487] Call Rob from a, he didn't pick up at first and probably because it was a weird number.

[2488] But I was smart.

[2489] I ordered a phone to my house so that it was there when I arrived.

[2490] Great.

[2491] But then I had to go to the AT &T store.

[2492] Oh, okay.

[2493] Which sucked.

[2494] And I had to look on maps on my computer before I left.

[2495] Did you print out directions?

[2496] I didn't.

[2497] I just memorized.

[2498] But that's big for me because I'm so bad at directions.

[2499] Yeah, that is not your strong suit.

[2500] Mm -mm -mm -mm.

[2501] So that, that's that.

[2502] How has your trip been?

[2503] Absolutely lovely.

[2504] My best friend in Idol, Tom Hanson came on the last night.

[2505] He came and had dinner.

[2506] He and Judy's wife at Kimmel's Place.

[2507] Oh, fun.

[2508] This is such a brag, but fuck it.

[2509] David Chang cooked because he was there.

[2510] So he made this incredible chicken and rice dish.

[2511] And then my friend Billy, who I haven't seen in 16 years since he was security detail for someone I was dating.

[2512] And now he's got like the best barbecue restaurant in Brooklyn and all these other restaurants.

[2513] And a blast from the past.

[2514] That was really fun.

[2515] And then drove to Jackson Hole yesterday over the past, the big.

[2516] scary pass in the bus it's always eventful i play adele every time we do it so hello from the other side screaming dancing and singing that over the pass i have this today oh my god and i'll tell you how this happened so okay what i'm seeing is an earring yes is it a diamond i can't really it is a diamond earring yes i'm wearing a diamond so i was just now at uncle grandpa's house aka a Tom Hanson's house and laying on the lounge and Lincoln just started picking at my ear and she's like, oh, I can feel where you had a piercing.

[2517] I'm like, sure.

[2518] Then she started squeezing and stuff.

[2519] Then she was getting treasure out, which is really exciting.

[2520] Oh.

[2521] Yeah.

[2522] Yeah.

[2523] And then she goes, it's wide open.

[2524] And then so she grabbed an earring and stuck it in there.

[2525] So now I'm wearing.

[2526] Yeah.

[2527] So now I have a diamond earring in, which has been 30 some years since I had an earring in that ear.

[2528] Wow.

[2529] Can I be me for it?

[2530] Did you clean it?

[2531] Oh, no. No. No, I'm definitely going to get a assist in there now because it came out.

[2532] So you're going to have what I had.

[2533] You're going to go rancid.

[2534] And with any luck, you can return the favor.

[2535] Oh, I'll try, but I'm not mechanical like you.

[2536] I don't, I don't really know that I'll have, I'll try.

[2537] It'll up the ante when I know you're in there with tin snips cutting like I was to your ear.

[2538] Oh, God.

[2539] Yeah.

[2540] Okay.

[2541] That'll be high adrenaline.

[2542] I have nimble fingers.

[2543] I think I can do it.

[2544] You do.

[2545] You're a very competent person in general.

[2546] Thank you.

[2547] Yeah, I would trust you.

[2548] Well, we'll see.

[2549] We'll put it to the test.

[2550] And you might be able to hear from my voice.

[2551] I also am sick.

[2552] Oh, no. But I'm really not acknowledging that.

[2553] But yes, I have a chest cold that I got about four days ago.

[2554] I went white water rafting.

[2555] Oh, fun.

[2556] Yeah, your favorite thing.

[2557] Well, one of, something you like doing.

[2558] Uh -huh.

[2559] I mean, really Lincoln loves it, which is the greatest.

[2560] She looks forward to it.

[2561] And she wrote at the front of the boat this year with other girls, not me. She always sits next to me, but this year she was up there.

[2562] And the riverboat guide, Oliver said, anyone want to bowl ride on the front through the next rapids, which is hang a leg off the front of the boat and ride like a bucking bronco.

[2563] It was clearly an invitation to the adults.

[2564] And everyone on the boat clearly thought that was an invitation to me. and then I actually showed uncharacteristic maturity and I'm like I'm not going to bowl ride so you know who did Minnie Dax Yeah She did it?

[2565] Wow Of course Of course And even when I was like I'm good Because all the adults were like All right Dax that's your cue And I'm like no I'm going to sit this one out And then sure enough I look up there In Lincoln's bowl ride And through the rapids Did it go fine?

[2566] Oh totally yeah Oh my God Can I say the other cutest thing.

[2567] I think it may have already started when I talked to you last time, but she, the entire trip, there were golf carts, and she made herself an Uber driver.

[2568] So she was just all day long, she drove people back and forth to their rooms in the golf car.

[2569] And I just kept watching her drive by.

[2570] And I was like, this is exactly what I would have done at 10 years old.

[2571] If there was a golf cart to be driven, every time it looks, she'd be on her own, like, cruising in this golf cart down a road, going to get a client.

[2572] A client.

[2573] Oh, my God.

[2574] That's amazing how fun it was so cute i can't tell you any stories about delta because i didn't see her for five days straight because she was with her friend maggie doing her thing i am triggered by maggie you know we all are yeah yeah everyone is well i'm sorry you're sick that sucks that's okay i don't care yeah but it doesn't feel good to not feel good the only thing that bothers me about the sickness is that when i'm coughing around other people i think they think i'm being irresponsible that a mountain about that's the only thing that is a real downer about it right i feel like 9500 people have colds right now 9500 people that's my guess 9500 percent of people have colds oh i guess one fun thing so i'm loading up to leave idaho yesterday and i'm not even out there but when i come out to load big brown there's a man who was driving down the highway saw big brown from the road and was like, oh, wow, that looks like Big Brown.

[2575] Then saw the Whalen Jennings logo on the back.

[2576] I was like, well, that's definitely Big Brown.

[2577] And this dude was there to just check out Big Brown.

[2578] Like that Big Brown was a celebrity?

[2579] I don't know if it's that or Instagram.

[2580] I have no clue.

[2581] I don't know, but Big Brown had a legitimate fan that had pulled their truck over to scope her out.

[2582] And so I was thrilled.

[2583] Wow.

[2584] Wow, that is so exciting.

[2585] Yeah, the dude did not expect to stumble upon me. He was just scoping Big Brown.

[2586] Oh, my God.

[2587] Big Brown is posting?

[2588] Well, do you know Big Brown has her own account?

[2589] No, I didn't know that.

[2590] Yeah, on Instagram.

[2591] Yeah, Big Brown.

[2592] That makes sense.

[2593] Yeah, I have posted on it a year and a half, and I don't think I even know how to get back into the account, but yes, one exists for Big Brown.

[2594] Well, good for her.

[2595] Good for her.

[2596] Yeah, she was pretty proud.

[2597] Oh, I bought a cool art piece, not Ann Mansour, though.

[2598] I love Anne Mansour still.

[2599] She emailed me recently, which was cute.

[2600] You're still in a, yeah, a faithful relationship with Mon Monsour.

[2601] But let me see.

[2602] Yeah.

[2603] Okay, hold on.

[2604] You're going to like it.

[2605] Okay, it's a little more modern than my norm.

[2606] Okay.

[2607] Oh, yes, yes.

[2608] You know who it reminds me of is a Mondrian.

[2609] And then in Chips, he had bought a mandria and was going to travel with it because they're worth a lot.

[2610] That's right.

[2611] I knew I recognized that name.

[2612] Okay.

[2613] Yeah.

[2614] So this artist's name is Nick Smith.

[2615] And it's very cool.

[2616] I love it.

[2617] It's this big yellow square, basically.

[2618] And there's a word underneath, multiple of his pieces at this place.

[2619] We're going to talk more about that place in a second.

[2620] But there's different words.

[2621] So I had to decide, which, you know, I'm so bad at deciding stuff.

[2622] And it was hard.

[2623] up.

[2624] There was one that was petite, and I almost got that.

[2625] Oh, you shut up.

[2626] Yeah, because you're petite.

[2627] Do you know what that word means that is online?

[2628] Show me again.

[2629] Show me again.

[2630] C -W -T -C -H -C -W -T -H -C -Witch.

[2631] C -Witch?

[2632] See which?

[2633] I had never heard it.

[2634] I'm going to read it to you.

[2635] Okay.

[2636] How'd you get that fucking thing back from London?

[2637] Fit in my suitcase.

[2638] It was all wrapped up.

[2639] Oh, wow.

[2640] The noun is cupboard or cubbyhole, but the verb is a cuddle or hug.

[2641] Wait, what?

[2642] Yeah, and it's pronounced, it's pronounced kutch, and it's a British word.

[2643] Oh, wow, a snuggle.

[2644] That's wonderful.

[2645] Yeah.

[2646] Okay, so the store I stumbled on.

[2647] It's called Peter Harrington.

[2648] Okay.

[2649] And I found, I found what I've been looking for, first of a day.

[2650] edition.

[2651] Terrence Posner?

[2652] It was in there?

[2653] Yep.

[2654] No. First edition, first book.

[2655] You didn't buy it, did you?

[2656] I didn't.

[2657] How much was it?

[2658] How much was it?

[2659] It was 8 ,000 pounds, which isn't crazy.

[2660] That can't be the first book.

[2661] From that first press of 500.

[2662] Yeah.

[2663] But it depends on how much used it is.

[2664] And so this one was red and it wasn't in like super fine condition.

[2665] They had, there was the chamber of secrets there also and it was signed by her.

[2666] And it was 220 ,000.

[2667] That makes no sense to me when one is one of 500 and the other is one of 10 million.

[2668] Like once the first book came out, they pressed a cotrillion.

[2669] Well, I guess if it's signed, the sign ones are really.

[2670] expensive.

[2671] So I guess now I need signed first.

[2672] So if we ever interview her, we should bring 12 or 15 of those books.

[2673] Obviously, yeah.

[2674] And fuck, I'll even give her, like, let me give you $400 ,000 to sign these 15 bucks, right here, cash.

[2675] Or we could give her like a car or a kiss or something.

[2676] Oh, something invaluable.

[2677] I love to give her some kisses.

[2678] Granddaddy's kissies.

[2679] Okay.

[2680] Well, should we do some facts?

[2681] Facts, yeah.

[2682] Okay, this is for Minka.

[2683] Oh, my God.

[2684] The biggest.

[2685] Love, love, love this episode, so much.

[2686] Me too.

[2687] So grateful that she was so vulnerable with us and felt like she could really talk about all this stuff.

[2688] I just love that the book has become a bestseller since we talked to her already.

[2689] Yeah.

[2690] Okay.

[2691] Let's start off with a apology.

[2692] Okay.

[2693] Okay.

[2694] I was wrong.

[2695] I was super wrong.

[2696] You are 100 % right that Demon Copperhead is based off David Copperfield.

[2697] Oh, thank God.

[2698] Because that was such a specific thing I knew.

[2699] It felt insane that I could have made up something so out there.

[2700] Well, I think for me, when I first got the book, you hadn't told me that.

[2701] And when I got it, you know, sometimes authors do quotes at the beginning.

[2702] Yep.

[2703] And there's a David Copperfield quote at the beginning, which is, it's in vain to recall the past unless it works some influence upon the present.

[2704] And so I read that and I thought, oh, maybe this is about that.

[2705] And then I thought I looked at up.

[2706] I did look it up.

[2707] I just did a bad job, I guess.

[2708] And I was like, oh, it's not weird.

[2709] And then I thought, oh, maybe you read that too and did the same thing where you just decided it was about that.

[2710] But it is.

[2711] Blow and behold, it is a modern telling of David Copperfield.

[2712] It is.

[2713] I was wrong about that big time.

[2714] So, sorry.

[2715] I'm not even the least bit upset.

[2716] Barbara Kingsolver.

[2717] Okay, she was raised in rural Kentucky.

[2718] She was.

[2719] That makes a lot of sense.

[2720] Yeah.

[2721] But she also lived in the Congo in her early childhood.

[2722] Whoa.

[2723] But her dad's a physician.

[2724] So I don't think she lived the life of the characters in the book.

[2725] Yeah, but she probably witnessed a lot of it.

[2726] She might have even, too, like, you could have been best friends with Aaron and learned that whole story and not had any of your own personal stuff, you know?

[2727] Yeah.

[2728] But also when I did my original research, that was bad, that was wrong.

[2729] I saw that she did a lot of, a bunch of research to write it.

[2730] Yeah.

[2731] I don't know what that means.

[2732] Talk to a lot of people probably.

[2733] I don't know.

[2734] Maybe she went there.

[2735] Yeah.

[2736] We got to interview her.

[2737] We will.

[2738] Now, breast implantation through belly button.

[2739] Mm -hmm.

[2740] It's called the tuba procedure.

[2741] I'd call it the trombone if I was going to do a wind instrument, a horn.

[2742] Because you got a fucking br -oh -oh -all -the -way.

[2743] You need the big stretcher to get it up there to the...

[2744] It stands for a...

[2745] trans umbilical breast augmentation trans umbilical breast of course the tuba procedure insertion technique the incision is at the navel which dissection then tunnels superiorly to facilitate in placing the breast prosthesis to the implant pocket without producing visible surgical scars upon the breast hemisphere yeah yeah um okay let's see well that's really it Oh, okay.

[2746] It was not a very fact -heavy episode because, you know, it's more about her life.

[2747] Yeah.

[2748] But facts will arise.

[2749] They do.

[2750] They do.

[2751] They have a way of burbling up, yeah.

[2752] So what are you going to do for the rest of your day?

[2753] I'm going to go back over to Uncle Grandpa's.

[2754] He's going to barbecue.

[2755] Ooh, yum.

[2756] Yeah, yeah.

[2757] All right, well, I love you.

[2758] I'm glad you got your phone back.

[2759] Thank you.

[2760] You're up and running.

[2761] I hope there'll be more Instagram.

[2762] You were just gone on Instagram.

[2763] And if I knew, luckily.

[2764] but had I didn't know about your phone, I would have presumed you were dead.

[2765] I think that's fair.

[2766] Yeah.

[2767] If you go three days without posting, we got to send out a search party.

[2768] A few people texted.

[2769] Are you okay?

[2770] Well, yeah, I was fully without a phone for over 24 hours.

[2771] And so then today, oh, this was one, a very annoying piece about the phone.

[2772] And also, this is interesting.

[2773] I didn't have a backup since September.

[2774] Uh -oh.

[2775] Whoa.

[2776] We're closing in on September just to remind folks, so.

[2777] Exactly.

[2778] Yeah.

[2779] So it is weird because my last text from everyone are from September.

[2780] Oh, wow.

[2781] Yeah.

[2782] And remember when I cut my finger and almost died?

[2783] Yes.

[2784] Yep.

[2785] When I texted Laura today, that was the last text.

[2786] It was like, I think I'm okay now.

[2787] I have it elevated.

[2788] So anyway, that was weird.

[2789] It's weird to not have text for many, many months.

[2790] Mm -hmm.

[2791] Very strange.

[2792] Kind of a weird time travel in some ways.

[2793] In some weird way, yeah, time backwards to travel.

[2794] Would you rather go back or forward?

[2795] Oh.

[2796] Do I have to stay there?

[2797] No. No, it's a visit.

[2798] Okay.

[2799] To, ooh, this is a good question.

[2800] question um i'd rather go back i'd rather go back because i want to remember we are i did say that on a flightless bird i want to meet people like i want to meet your dad and i want to meet maybe i want to meet the thief's family and see how she was raised you know i'm getting nervous i'm getting so old that there's no way your grandma's going to accept my invitation to dinner when i go back why of course she will no because i'm so old.

[2801] I mean, it's getting so old.

[2802] My kids told me today that I need to shave my beard and cut my hair shorter, so I look younger.

[2803] No, no, no, no, no. Kids are kids.

[2804] Kids are stupid.

[2805] That's the thing about kids.

[2806] They don't know shit.

[2807] That's what the thing is.

[2808] I think she'll be happy to accept your invite.

[2809] Okay, good, good, good.

[2810] Then I'm going back.

[2811] Then that solves it.

[2812] Okay.

[2813] But I'm not going to go back to get shot down.

[2814] That's a long way to.

[2815] I know.

[2816] to travel 50 years.

[2817] Yeah, but it's only going to take 30 seconds in the machine.

[2818] That's true.

[2819] That's true.

[2820] Maybe I don't want to meet Jesus if I knew I was going to get turned down.

[2821] Oh, my God.

[2822] We only have one thing to, we can only do one thing in the going back.

[2823] Well, yeah, you're going to one location in time.

[2824] Oh, no. I know.

[2825] It's very stressful.

[2826] But I would love to meet Jesus and shake his hand and look into his eyes and see if maybe he was God.

[2827] That'd be cool.

[2828] If I returned and I was like, That guy was God.

[2829] But how would you know?

[2830] I could look in his eyes.

[2831] I'd look in his eyes and I would know if he was God or not.

[2832] Oh, you can tell.

[2833] Because I'm looking in your eyes and I can tell you're not God.

[2834] As much as I think you're great, you're not God.

[2835] Well, that's pretty rude.

[2836] Well, no, it's just I don't, you know, I don't think you're the one and only God.

[2837] Okay.

[2838] I hate to say, I'm really sorry.

[2839] Okay, you're God.

[2840] I mean, in a way you are because you're your dad's simulation that I'm in.

[2841] So in some weird ways.

[2842] Well, I'd be Jesus then.

[2843] You're right, son of God.

[2844] Daughter of God.

[2845] Well, daughter of God.

[2846] Jesus.

[2847] Jesusette.

[2848] Oh, my God.

[2849] All right.

[2850] All right.

[2851] Well, I love you.

[2852] I love you too.

[2853] And we'll talk to you later.

[2854] Okay, wonderful.

[2855] Okay.

[2856] expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[2857] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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