#1226 - Mike Baker

[0] four, three, two, one, Mr. Baker.

[1] How are you?

[2] Mr. Rogan, I'm doing well.

[3] Thanks very much.

[4] What's going on, man?

[5] What are you doing in town?

[6] I just was in town doing some work on a sizzle reel for a show, a new show.

[7] Can you talk about it?

[8] Can you tell people what it is?

[9] Well, there's actually two of them.

[10] One, I can talk about.

[11] I can tease it a little bit.

[12] The marketing department, I guess, has to approve everything that's said.

[13] It started out.

[14] It's going to be on the Discovery Network, I think, a science channel.

[15] And it was starting to main filming in February, and we should be finished by the end of March.

[16] So, you know, stamp high.

[17] But it started with a discussion about hidden budgets in the Defense Department.

[18] Like dark art stuff?

[19] Yeah.

[20] The show's going to be called Blackfiles.

[21] Oh.

[22] Like UFO type shit.

[23] Well, there's going to be some of that.

[24] Some.

[25] But from a, you know, not from a, you know, did they land, did they not?

[26] It's, we're really actually kind of tearing into some of the programs.

[27] that were funded by, you know, hidden money in the Defense Department.

[28] How do they do that?

[29] Well, I mean, if you take, like the CIA, for example, the agency's budget is hidden inside.

[30] It's not hidden, but it's placed inside the Defense Department.

[31] And it's a classified piece of information, obviously, because a lot of...

[32] So the Defense Department gets a certain budget.

[33] The CIA gets a piece of that, but nobody's allowed to know how much or where it's spent.

[34] Right.

[35] Because obviously, you know, the Russians, the Chinese, whomever would like to know how much money is sent over to the the agency so that they can get a sense of size, resources, capabilities, that sort of thing.

[36] So that's where the show concept started.

[37] You know, what is that money spent on, both in the old days and now?

[38] So it kind of spans, you know, historical operations and events and activities and special units, and it comes up to the present time and says, you know, where is, you know, money being devoted now for new technology or new programs, new operations, new intelligence gathering efforts, whatever it might be.

[39] So it's, you know, I think it's, it's got a lot of promise, you know, hopefully people tune in and find it interesting.

[40] Well, people are always curious about where the money goes.

[41] Yeah.

[42] Yeah.

[43] And, you know, I am.

[44] Like, who oversees it?

[45] Who gets, who gets to decide, like, what gets spent on what and how much money goes where and who gets to know?

[46] I do.

[47] That's, it's my job.

[48] It's a good question.

[49] You know, that's, I think a lot of people would be surprised at the amount that we're talking about.

[50] And it's not just, it's not the intelligence community.

[51] It's also the military, obviously.

[52] Can you discuss the actual numbers?

[53] Or could you discuss the numbers that they used to have?

[54] We'll be able to discuss the numbers that went into past operations.

[55] But anything that's currently classified, obviously, we're not going to touch on.

[56] But we've been working hard and the producers have been working very hard to get excellent access, you know, where possible and get cooperation where possible.

[57] It's going to be a fairly immersive effort.

[58] What's the benefit of the CIA even divulging any of this information?

[59] Like, why would they cooperate?

[60] Why wouldn't they say, hey, shut the fuck up?

[61] Yeah, well, and frankly, they should and they have, and they will.

[62] But not necessarily with the agency, but with other departments, and certainly within the military, there's some information out there that's accessible.

[63] There's some ability to get them to cooperate on certain, again, declassified operations that just haven't come to light.

[64] Look, a lot of shit's been declassified over the years that's just never been looked at or talked about.

[65] You know, somebody maybe gets a wild hair up there asking they says, I'm going to look into this program, and then they start, you know, peeling it back.

[66] It's not that it's classified.

[67] It's just nobody's ever bothered to dig into that information once it is declassified.

[68] So, you know, it's going to be a lot of fun, a lot of travel, some great people working on the program.

[69] But, you know, apparently I have to keep it pretty much at that until the marketing department says, okay, here's what you can say.

[70] Right.

[71] So eventually you'll be able to spill the beans and tell us every thing.

[72] Exactly.

[73] So, like, if they're making something like the B -52, like, if they're making a stealth bomber, if they're making some spaceship -looking thing, like, you're talking this insane amount of money in research and development and the budget of these things, and they have to keep all that under wraps.

[74] Yeah, shit, yeah.

[75] I mean, look, you go back to the old days of the U -2 program.

[76] U -2 program.

[77] The U -2 program was developed, designed, built, maintained, flown by the CIA all those years ago, right?

[78] Now, that was a massive effort.

[79] and a lot of money.

[80] And it was done under budget, and it was done on time, in part because I think, you know, things were a little bit easier back then, and we weren't all pissing on each other up on Capitol Hill.

[81] But, yeah, so it's programs like that that I think will surprise people when they find out both who was running it, who was responsible, and to the degree possible, you know, what did it cost us?

[82] And, you know, who was involved?

[83] And to what to agree that it lead to something else that we're doing now.

[84] So anyway, there's a lot of, a lot of, you know, threads to pull on.

[85] I think it should be a lot of fun.

[86] So there's constantly projects that are in development that people, other than the people that need to know, the general public has no idea.

[87] Like, that's always the person, the people on the outside, folks like myself, you look at the, he go, I wonder what kind of shit they have that they don't tell us about.

[88] Like, that's what you always want.

[89] Like, what kind of invisibility cloak, what kind of critical?

[90] crazy, you know, that would be good.

[91] Dark matter weapons.

[92] Like, what are they doing?

[93] Yeah.

[94] No, it's, and it's true.

[95] I mean, you get these incredibly smart people.

[96] And it, but it comes down, it's as simple as this.

[97] Somebody gets an idea.

[98] They're sitting around a table.

[99] It's not unlike going out with your buddies and drinking and thinking, you know, somebody comes up with some, you know, dumb -ass idea.

[100] The next thing, you know, it turns into a TV show or something.

[101] But it's, it's not unlike that.

[102] A lot of smart guys sitting around a table thinking, well, here's the problem.

[103] them.

[104] How do we resolve it?

[105] And the key is to do it creatively, right?

[106] To come up, because if you get a bunch of engineers sitting around a table, you hope that they're not at all approaching it from the same point of view, right?

[107] It's like with an operation.

[108] If you've got a high value target out there and you've got to figure out how to get access, get to them, you want ideas coming in from all directions.

[109] You don't want to, you know, squelch creativity.

[110] And believe it or not, I mean, the intel community, the military, they've been enormously creative over the years in developing new technology.

[111] and developing operational ideas and methodologies.

[112] So what we're trying to do is shed some light on that.

[113] Well, I would imagine there's a certain amount of, I don't want to use the word fun, but that's really the right word.

[114] Like some of it's got to be fun to develop this stuff and to implement it and go out and get bad guys with it and to see your project come to fruition and actually have a positive effect on the world.

[115] Absolutely, yeah.

[116] I mean, if you, it really is.

[117] It's that simple because, you know, in operations anyway, you know, you engage in something out there in some, you know, place around the world, wherever it may be.

[118] And, you know, you realize as you're walking away that, you know, there's not a lot of people doing this at this moment on the planet, right?

[119] I mean, so the operational activity itself is enormously entertaining as long as it goes right.

[120] But it's also the build -up.

[121] It's all that homework that gets you there, right?

[122] It's like the take down of bin Laden.

[123] We didn't just happen to get lucky and rock up on his doorstep, right, in Abadabod.

[124] But that was eight or nine years of fucking hard work, right?

[125] Heavy lifting, chasing down countless bad leads and doing enormous amounts of surveillance, street work, and tracking down assets and doing, I mean, just the hard, hard work that eventually allowed all those guys from the teams to land and do their job.

[126] What's interesting to me, too, is that the guy who is writing the book about all this stuff and talking about, you know, the man who shot bin Laden, that guy.

[127] persona non grata in the community like you talk to the other seals they're like you don't you don't do that right you don't you don't do that you don't write books about that you don't talk about that and you do it for a short term gain you know you make some profit off of it but you lose the brother ship you lose it yeah exactly you you're you're kind of the outs in the club and but i will say this the reason why i think uh the horse got out of the barn on on And that whole issue of guys writing books or getting out there and talking about specific operations is because senior commanders and senior people, right, people that came out of the top levels of government, started writing their memoirs, you know, started revisiting history while they were, it was their watch.

[128] And then coming up with, you know, their explanations for history.

[129] And I think all the guys below, you know, junior ranks and street level operators, they looked at that and then, well, what the fuck if they can do it?

[130] Why not me?

[131] Because you've got to set the tone from the top.

[132] And I think that's where it got all kind of sideways.

[133] Plus, when you have someone who, you know, has a crazy story like Marcus Latrell and it becomes an amazing movie, it also, it does help the community, right?

[134] Because it gets a bunch of people that are really interested in becoming a seal.

[135] It gets people to appreciate the unbelievable sacrifice and hard work that's involved.

[136] Yeah, I think that's, I think that there is an upside.

[137] Yeah, there's an upside to it.

[138] But I think it's a fine balance, right?

[139] At what point do you go over that line?

[140] So you're right in the sense that, you know, we see that with whomever, the FBI or DEA.

[141] You know, they got out there and put their thumbprint on some TV shows, right?

[142] Because I think it kind of expanded in part awareness of what they do.

[143] I'm sure it helped their recruitment.

[144] And so the seals are no different.

[145] But at the same time, you know, you sign a piece of paper at the very beginning that says you're going to keep your yap shut.

[146] And it's one thing to come out from whatever unit or whatever team or whatever organization and say, I'm going to write, I don't know, about my time in, right?

[147] And it's not a look at sources and methods, not look at operations.

[148] It's not that it's more of, you know, this is what happened, you know, during my time.

[149] And I mean, I think there's, I'm not explaining it very well, but I think there's a way you can do that without screwing the pooch.

[150] But I think that I think the seals got overexposed.

[151] and I think a lot of the guys resent that.

[152] But again, you're right.

[153] There was some upside to it.

[154] Well, there's upside to some of the stores, right?

[155] Like, I definitely think it's upside to Marcus LaTrell's store because it's just so incredible.

[156] It's incredible.

[157] It's incredible.

[158] It's so incredible.

[159] It's so it's important to maintain that honor.

[160] It's important to maintain that bond of silence, you know, that you guys, you know, they're doing something.

[161] that is probably one of the most dangerous and one of the most, in terms of special operations, one of the most significant in all of military in this country.

[162] Yeah, I think the old school guys, the old school operators out of the teams are definitely like, just shut your pie hole.

[163] Don't talk about this.

[164] The newer guys, again, because they came up in a different time, right?

[165] I mean, information flows all around.

[166] It's much easier and quicker than it did in the 70s and 80s.

[167] and, you know, early 90s.

[168] But nowadays, people are just used to reading everything as soon as it happens.

[169] And it creates a different mindset.

[170] So the younger guys in there, they don't necessarily view it the same way.

[171] I didn't even think about it until the Dick Marchenko books came out.

[172] Those were a long time ago.

[173] It was a long time ago.

[174] Yeah.

[175] That's when I really was like, wow, they wear regular clothes.

[176] I mean, I think I was like probably 18 or 19 when those books were out.

[177] And I remember thinking, this is crazy.

[178] They wear long hair and they dress like hippie.

[179] They dressed normal and go out and invade.

[180] Go ahead, invade.

[181] It's just the invading hippies.

[182] But, you know, they would get, I mean, Marchenko was famous for wanting his guys to get drunk together, too, before, like, big things.

[183] Yeah.

[184] Well, it's that idea, team -building camaraderie.

[185] And however you do it.

[186] But there was that sense that we do it and it's off the radar.

[187] And it's not talked about.

[188] And we take pride in that.

[189] But again, I'll go back to the same thing.

[190] If, you know, like Bob Gates.

[191] You know, Bob Gates writes a book, you know, a former director of the agency, and he's a brilliant guy, great guy.

[192] But he writes a book and, you know, and then you get somebody else.

[193] Maybe Mike Morel writes a book.

[194] And so from, you know, inside the CIA, you got a lot of officers going, well, shit, maybe when I get out, I'll write a book because what I'm doing is pretty damn interesting.

[195] And there's no laws against that?

[196] Well, yeah, there are.

[197] And, you know, anybody who reveals sources and methods, anybody who breaks their agreements in terms of the proper handling, which is a lifetime agreement.

[198] of classified information, there's supposed to be consequences.

[199] And sometimes there are.

[200] And sometimes if you're senior enough, maybe there's not.

[201] But yeah, you sign a piece of paper at the very beginning.

[202] I'll never forget that.

[203] I read it.

[204] And I said, okay, good.

[205] There was no question about that.

[206] What does it say basically?

[207] It says, keep your yap's shut.

[208] I mean, I don't want to oversimplify it.

[209] But it says you are being given the responsibility of handling extremely sensitive information.

[210] and information that if released can easily result in the loss of life.

[211] I mean, it's as simple as that, essentially.

[212] And your obligation is to shut your mouth and not talk about sources and methods and things that you know better not to talk about.

[213] But I think that kind of the drip, drip, drip, right, of the books and the things that come out and the anonymous sources.

[214] Look, the New York Times can write an entire front page article based on nothing but anonymous sources nowadays.

[215] Right.

[216] used to happen.

[217] You know, editors would sit there and go, you know, you better get yourself some additional, Right.

[218] And that we can discuss so people can put it in context.

[219] Nowadays, that's not the case.

[220] Why do you think that is?

[221] You know, I think because, I don't know.

[222] Part of it is lower standards of journalism?

[223] Yeah, I think lower standards.

[224] I think competition, I think the desire to get information out there quickly because every journalist is now playing beat the clock with everybody who's got a smartphone, right?

[225] who fancies themselves a blogger or a journalist on Twitter or whatever.

[226] So they're all doing this, and I think it's just this idea, right, that says, it reminds me of a meeting with my company diligence for all your information and security needs.

[227] And it was with a major multinational corporation.

[228] And I was meeting with their head of security and some other folks.

[229] And they do a lot of work overseas and some very difficult places.

[230] And the competition that they face in their sector is huge.

[231] And so we went in there and we thought, this would be great.

[232] There's a lot of things we can do for them in terms of gathering information, preventing them from making mistakes as they're going into a new market, all of these things.

[233] And the bottom line was they said, they looked at me and they said, nah, you know what, competition's so fierce.

[234] We're just going to go in.

[235] If we make mistakes, we'll clean it up later.

[236] And they were willing to do that.

[237] It's like acceptable loss, credit card fraud loss, you know, for MasterCard or whomever.

[238] They're willing to accept millions and millions and millions of dollars as an acceptable loss for the cost of doing business.

[239] And so it's a little bit like that, I think, with journalism.

[240] They're willing to just throw shit out there and, hey, if they have to make a retraction, fine.

[241] But it compromises the way a person like myself views the news.

[242] I mean, look, I hate to quote Trump, but when he's like parrots that fake news term over and over again, if you are a person who's or an organization that's being accused, of lying, it seems to me you should really dot your eyes and cross your teeth from then on out.

[243] I mean, you're being accused of lying by the president.

[244] And I think irresponsibly accused, I mean, the way he does it, he does it to avoid questions that make him uncomfortable.

[245] I mean, and as the president, I just don't think you should be able to do that.

[246] Right.

[247] You can't point to someone from CNN and your fake news.

[248] Yeah.

[249] Like, what do you 12?

[250] Right.

[251] It serves no purpose for the president.

[252] I agree with it 100%.

[253] So much of what this administration does is a self -inflicted wound, right?

[254] And part of it is that they're just crap at messaging.

[255] Part of it is this idea that he just says what's on his mind, and he does.

[256] It's almost like he's got Tourette's, but I think he views it as a strength.

[257] He views it as a reason why he got elected.

[258] And a lot of people out there think, yeah, that's his base, you know, the people that are really behind him no matter what.

[259] I think they view it as part of his charm as well.

[260] And the problem is he does release classified information sometimes.

[261] Yeah, we've had that problem with several administrations.

[262] They just don't know what to not say.

[263] Well, I think part of it again is, yeah, there's a laxness that's developed over the years.

[264] And I don't know why, right?

[265] Because, you know, I mean, think about all the various security issues we face.

[266] And look, we've been a war for, you know, 17 years, right?

[267] Since 9 -11.

[268] And all these things that have been happening to us, you would think that we'd be pretty buttoned up.

[269] But now, every administration has had its moment where, it's let slip.

[270] And whether it was the press secretary, whether it was somebody rushing to the podium or was somebody on Capitol Hill.

[271] I mean, they're famous for it up there.

[272] You know, congressmen and congresswomen or senators all in the rush to get in front of the camera to talk about something.

[273] And then, you know, shit happens.

[274] Things get out that they shouldn't.

[275] So I think it's, it all kind of contributes to this mentality that we started off talking about with the seals where, you know, why are we in this point where people are writing books and maybe getting outside the box.

[276] And I think it's just because, yeah, it's this constant drip and lowering of standards, like you mentioned, I think.

[277] And it's, I don't think we walk that dog back.

[278] I don't, you know, it's just the way it is.

[279] Now, you're not in the agency anymore, but I'm sure you stay tight with people that are still there.

[280] What is the attitude now with this administration, like what they're doing with, like, the way he attacks the FBI and the way, like, it just seems, it seems so reckless.

[281] Yeah.

[282] It's, it's.

[283] It's unusual.

[284] I mean, look, I, look, there's, here's the way I feel about it.

[285] I didn't vote for the president.

[286] I didn't vote for Hillary Clinton.

[287] I didn't think either of them were the best we could do in a country of over 300 million people.

[288] We've talked about this before, that if it was you or I that did what Hillary did, we'd be in jail.

[289] Yeah, exactly.

[290] And so, but as far as, you know, what the current mood inside the agency is, I mean, if you talk to some former folks, they'll say, morale is awful.

[291] Mal's terrible.

[292] And, you know, they just say, you're just, you know, hating life because there's not, I don't find that.

[293] I find that, frankly, they're just more focused on operational concerns and priorities and tasking than anything else.

[294] Everybody's got a personal opinion, right?

[295] But I do think that the agency has proven itself over the years at being better at pushing that down and understanding, and in part because it's a smaller organization, right, than most of them.

[296] than almost all of them.

[297] But he's not, he doesn't go after the CIA, right?

[298] He's only gone after the FBI.

[299] He's gone out the FBI.

[300] I mean, he's, you know, he's questioned, he's done some things in terms of questioning CIA analysis and, you know, some of the advice and guidance that they've provided.

[301] But that, again, you sort of look at and go, hey, look, we're feeding this into the NSC, the National Security Council.

[302] You guys, you know, that's, that's an editorial process at that point.

[303] You guys are going to have to make your decisions.

[304] You know, people are going to say, I'm just saying this because I'm subjective and I, you know, I'm providing top cover for the agency.

[305] But for the most part, they just focus on getting shit done.

[306] And we also have the benefit of being focused overseas.

[307] So we're not like the Bureau is, you know, it's a domestic organization, right?

[308] So they, you know, they're drawn in.

[309] The agency's got the advantage of, look, we're having to deal with crap over there.

[310] Right.

[311] Not here.

[312] Now, what did you think when he said they were going to pull out of Syria?

[313] Yeah.

[314] Well, first of all, yeah.

[315] Yeah, they just had that, we've lost some servicemen up in northern Syria today.

[316] Today.

[317] As a result of a bombing up there.

[318] Yeah, ISIS is taking credit for it.

[319] So there was a patrol.

[320] And we've got roughly 2 ,000 personnel in Syria.

[321] And for the most part, what are they doing there?

[322] Well, they're providing guidance training.

[323] They're assisting with targeting.

[324] and because the air power is incredibly important over there right now.

[325] And so we are, our personnel are very much involved in selection of identification of targets for the air campaign.

[326] And so we have these 2 ,000 troops there.

[327] The president says he's going to withdraw.

[328] And then some of the members of the administration start walking that dog back, right, and saying, well, it may not happen right away.

[329] But yeah, there was just a. a routine patrol.

[330] There's never really such a thing as a routine patrol, but there's a patrol, and it got hit.

[331] The military is not releasing a lot of details because they haven't finished notifying next to Ken, but numbers so far indicate possibly four servicemen lost.

[332] And that's going to refocus, I think, Congress and hopefully the White House on what the hell's going on.

[333] the problem I've got with it is in terms of withdrawing look we could stay there forever and not accomplish the task right if the task is to finally defeat whatever that means radical Islam jihadists ISIS that shit's never going to happen not in our lifetimes we're not going to get rid of that mentality that that ideology the sort of what seems to be something sometimes a bottomless well of recruits that they can draw on, their ability to morph into something else, as al -Qaeda did, depending on, you know, how successful we are in a campaign against them, they're like, you know, again, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, step on roaches over here and they pop up over here.

[334] So I think it's, the biggest problem I've got is, is that if we leave, we're not, we're not, you know, it's not like we're engaged in firefights every day.

[335] with ISIS over there, right?

[336] We've left that to our allies.

[337] And our allies, in most part, up there in the north of Syria, are the Kurds.

[338] And the Kurds have been our allies in one way or another in that part of the world for a long time now.

[339] And it played a very important role.

[340] And we have not been particularly honorable over the years in terms of how sometimes we deal with them.

[341] If we walk out, if we leave, then Erdogan, you know, the head of Turkey, I guess guarantee you, we'll be in there in short order to kill as many of them as possible, because that's just what the Turkish authorities are going to do.

[342] They, honestly, they couldn't be happier with the announcement that we're going to leave because that opens the door for them to then go in there and, from their perspective, stamp out the Kurdish alliance that have been our allies.

[343] We're the only thing, our presence.

[344] That small presence, you know, not minimizing it, but, you know, 2 ,000 troops has been what's prevented them from doing.

[345] that.

[346] So that's that's the number one issue I've got.

[347] The other is I have no idea why any president or vice president or anybody in the government ever, not just this administration or any administration, ever thinks it's a good idea to say we've defeated the enemy when we're talking about radical Islam.

[348] We've seen it over and over again from previous administration, from the Bush administration.

[349] Every time they say, you know, we've done it.

[350] Mission accomplished.

[351] Mission accomplished.

[352] Or we beat an al -Qaeda or we've beaten ISIS.

[353] There's no upside to saying that.

[354] Shut the fuck up.

[355] Stop saying things like that.

[356] Again, it's a self -inflicted womb because now what's happening?

[357] Yeah, the media is not focused on the fact that we've lost servicemen.

[358] They're focused on, well, just the other day, the president said we defeated ISIS.

[359] And the vice president today said the same thing.

[360] Now, look, what's happened?

[361] There's no benefit to saying that.

[362] And it's not going to happen anyway.

[363] So the goal of being over there is to assist our allies, but also, to make sure that these radical factions don't become more powerful and then eventually affect us and attack us.

[364] And so we can keep an eye on what they're planning, what they're doing.

[365] Is that, is that inaccurate?

[366] Yeah, it is.

[367] It's exactly it.

[368] I mean, if you look at the reason we went into Afghanistan, right, if we go back all those years, holy shit.

[369] And that was because the Taliban allowed al -Qaeda to establish a beachhead in there for training and for communications and for finance and for plotting and planning attacks outside of Afghanistan against us and our allies.

[370] That's why we went in there, aside from just seeking revenge, obviously, was to route that out.

[371] We then stayed, you know, thinking somehow we were going to turn the tie to history and create some pseudo -federal democracy there.

[372] So that didn't work.

[373] But the reason now for being in Syria is, yes, we have done a very solid job of beating back ISIS, removing their territory, and degrading their ability to operate.

[374] But we haven't stamped them out.

[375] We haven't defeated them yet.

[376] They're still there.

[377] And so we've been providing this support.

[378] in the form of weapons, hardware, gear of resources, training, and most importantly, combat air operations, air assaults.

[379] And that's been critically important.

[380] If we leave, I have no doubt that ISIS will find some way to rejuvenate, maybe not in its current form and maybe not in the same exact locations, but they'll morph because that's what they do.

[381] They just find a way to adapt.

[382] And we already know what's happened in the past when we left Iraq.

[383] We saw what happened with the rise of ISIS.

[384] So, you know, do I want to stay there forever?

[385] Absolutely not.

[386] But both sides can make a valid argument, one for staying, one for leaving.

[387] I think the best argument for staying in the certainly short and midterm is to ensure that Erdogan doesn't slaughter a bunch of Kurds who have been working with us honorably.

[388] You know, I don't know how else to say that.

[389] So, we'll see what happens.

[390] So the best argument to stay is to protect the people that helped us, to protect our allies.

[391] Yeah, yeah.

[392] So it's not in our best interest, isn't the best interests of our commitment and our agreement with them?

[393] Well, is it in our national security interest to stay in Syria, for example?

[394] Right.

[395] There was this, there's so many levels to this thing.

[396] And I'm sure right now everybody's listening going, oh, fuck's sake, he's not going to disappear down a rabbit hole.

[397] But, oh, yes, I am.

[398] For a while there, there was this idea, this ridiculous pie in the sky thought that we were going to get the Russians out of Syria.

[399] It's never going to fucking happen.

[400] Russians said the only port for their Black Sea fleet is in Syria.

[401] They've been there for decades and decades, along with Iran.

[402] It's not going to happen unless we want to go to war with Russia to kick them out of Syria.

[403] That's not in our best interest.

[404] So is it in our national security interest to keep troops there to fight and try?

[405] try to minimize Russian involvement in Syria?

[406] I don't think so because we're not going to shift them off that dime without going directly at them.

[407] It's in their best interest to stay, and every nation acts in its own best interest.

[408] Are we going to shift Iran?

[409] Are we going to keep Iran from forming too late for that?

[410] They've already got a beachhead there that they're not going to give up.

[411] And so you've got to set those issues aside and say, well, what the hell are we doing there?

[412] Are we there simply because we have to finish the fight against ISIS?

[413] basis?

[414] Well, you know, at some point you got to say, you know, I guess.

[415] I wouldn't say that we've defeated them, but I think we would say, yeah, we've degraded them sufficiently that we can now operate from elsewhere.

[416] You know, we can operate from forward bases in other locations where we're currently, you know, based.

[417] Great.

[418] But again, I keep coming back to the same thing, that, you know, we've worked with the Kurds.

[419] Is this in our national security interests?

[420] Well, no, I guess it's not.

[421] But there's something that tells me it's the right.

[422] thing to do.

[423] And maybe sometimes that's enough, you know, that we should, we should not let Erdogan have his way.

[424] And also long term, wouldn't it be in our best interest to honor our commitment and make sure that we protect our allies so that in the future other allies would be more willing to cooperate with us because they understand that once we're committed, we're fully committed and we stay?

[425] Yeah.

[426] And we stand for something.

[427] Yeah.

[428] So what's the benefit of getting out?

[429] Like the people that think we should get out.

[430] Like when when Trump said he wanted to pull out, like what's his thinking?

[431] I don't think it runs particularly deep.

[432] I think it just, I think it's, you know, during the campaign, he talked about, you know, stopping the endless wars.

[433] And that's a very popular concept, right?

[434] Again, nobody wants to, I mean, what the hell?

[435] I mean, and so it will be interesting to see, you know, what today's sad, you know, event does upon Capitol Hill.

[436] You know, do they rethink their, the withdrawal, or do they accelerate it?

[437] Like when they had the buildup in Iraq and it was highly criticized but then it was very effective like it did do what they intended it to do right and it did knock back the enemy if they decided to ramp it up worldwide would that be a solution to any of this or is the opposite is it better to actually ramp up our defenses domestically and just stay the fuck away from all these people yeah well eventually you can only, I mean, you can only do so much, I think, on the domestic front, and then, you know, if they gain sufficient ability and strength, we've seen that from past attacks, I think, then they'll come after you.

[438] They'll come after us.

[439] And that's just the way, I suppose, that's going to work.

[440] But I don't disagree with the notion because it is hard pressed.

[441] I, look, I wouldn't have stayed in Afghanistan, frankly.

[442] I don't care whether they've increased their literacy rate by 2 % or built another road.

[443] whatever it doesn't matter they don't they don't know what the hell we're trying to sell them right so i don't uh i'm not against the notion of getting out but this one's a tough one i guess that's what i'm saying is is the syria issue is i'm real conflicted on because of the kurds and and what they've done on our behalf in the past and how they've suffered and knowing uh going years and years back you know having dealt with that issue uh two and a half decades ago a long time ago with the turks in the Kurds, knowing how vicious that could be.

[444] And I don't trust Erdogan as far as I could throw them out a window.

[445] So, you know, I think there's a problem there that we need to, we need to make sure we've talked through thoroughly before we just say, sure, let's get them out of there.

[446] You know, what the hell?

[447] You know, we shouldn't have them there.

[448] We shouldn't be there.

[449] But like everything else, look, it's complicated.

[450] You would like to think that they're having conversations like this up on Capitol Hill, you know, between the parties, Republicans and the Dems, but I don't think they are.

[451] That's what's concerning me. What concerns me is, especially a guy like Trump, if Trump is the guy who's decided we're going to pull out of Syria, like, how does he have enough time to carefully consider that as well as all the other things that are on his plate?

[452] And when someone runs for president, say if someone's campaigning and they say, you know, I support a non -interventionalist foreign policy, I'm going to get us out of these these wars, I'm going to get, they're doing this based on a limited amount of information.

[453] Like, it's not like the CIA or the FBI or anybody briefs them as they're running for president.

[454] They don't have clearance, right?

[455] Right.

[456] Right.

[457] Until you become the party nominee.

[458] Right.

[459] So when you're the party nominee, then do you get a discussion?

[460] You get, you get some access, right?

[461] It's not, you're still not the president.

[462] Right.

[463] But you are given some ability to get more intensive briefings.

[464] Yeah.

[465] Yeah.

[466] But it's not.

[467] it's not to the degree that the president so someone like hillary she was already secretary of state she already knew pretty much most things yeah yeah she had yeah she she was you know very switched on very informed um you know she was just an awful candidate yeah sorry um i you know so i i i think that um look i there's certain things that this administration's doing foreign policy wise that I think are good.

[468] It makes sense.

[469] There are other things that I think, you know, you just leave you scratch in your head.

[470] But that's like every administration.

[471] I guess my point is we've gotten away from that ability, right?

[472] I have conversations.

[473] I go out to dinner with folks that, you know, on the hard left.

[474] And when you talk to them, they fully believe, fully believe that President Trump is a Russian puppet, a witting asset of Putin who is just doing Putin's bidding.

[475] and they honestly, honestly believe that, and nothing is going to shift them off that position.

[476] When you have that sort of frame of reference, you don't have the ability to look at anything rationally and say, yeah, okay, I like this policy related to China.

[477] It's about time we call them out and say that you obviously have not been a fair trading partner.

[478] That's something that every administration has agreed to but has never done anything about.

[479] So you would think that everybody would be able to say, makes sense.

[480] Yeah, I like it.

[481] everybody should be able to say the immigration system here in the states is somewhat dysfunctional it needs fixing everybody's talked about that and yet they can't do it because they've got this this mindset that that prevents them from having any sort of conversation any sort of rational discussion that could lead to some compromise that could then advance the ball and make this government more functional so so where we're at right now is today is day what of the shutdown 26th I think So 800 ,000 American workers that work for the government are not getting paid.

[482] So they're a month out.

[483] Many of these people, paycheck to paycheck.

[484] They don't have medical necessities.

[485] They don't have food.

[486] People are having a ration off.

[487] They're insulin if they're diabetic.

[488] I mean, I'm hearing these horror horror stories.

[489] The lines of the airport are around the fucking block.

[490] It's chaos.

[491] And it seems like there's no end.

[492] in sight.

[493] And it seems like Trump is just content to hold his position.

[494] Well, I think both sides are content to hold their position.

[495] That seems fucking crazy to me. It is crazy.

[496] It's absolutely crazy if you think about it.

[497] And it's not just $800 ,000.

[498] I don't know the exact numbers, but think about all the contractors.

[499] Think about all the government contractors.

[500] Right.

[501] Right.

[502] You know, if I'm not mistaken, I don't think they're getting paid.

[503] Yeah.

[504] And so this has, and you know, the administration has admitted that, look, we initially underestimated the impact of of a longer term shutdown.

[505] And so they understand that.

[506] And the Democrats, you know, talk about it every minute about how this is a terrible crisis.

[507] And so you would think that if both sides feel that way, then get something done.

[508] Look, the Democrats, they've approved in the past, recent past.

[509] Many of these Democrats voted for fencing, barriers, whatever you want to call it.

[510] Yeah.

[511] But we're lost in semantics.

[512] And because the president's so hated by this, you know, this group that, you know, they've seized on this term wall.

[513] If he had started his campaign by saying, we need to improve our border security and find fixes to an immigration system that is both fair and secure and efficient.

[514] If he had gone with that, it's a wordy bumper sticker.

[515] But if he had gone with that, we'd have a different conversation right now.

[516] We would, but maybe we'd have a different president as well.

[517] Yeah, that's okay.

[518] That's a good point.

[519] You know, there's something about that build that wall that's like the dopes are like, yeah.

[520] Wall, I get it.

[521] Yeah, it's a wall.

[522] Still simple.

[523] Build a wall.

[524] Oh, yeah, like a castle.

[525] Build a wall.

[526] It seems so, uh, it's, it's such a visual.

[527] No, you're right.

[528] That's, and that's, you know, that's where I miss out.

[529] I'm not, you know, I'm way off on the, in terms of being clever about politics, but I think that.

[530] Well, how to rope in rubes.

[531] Yeah.

[532] Yeah.

[533] I should, I should get better at that.

[534] Yeah.

[535] It seems like, but he's got that down.

[536] Yeah.

[537] Boy, I, I didn't even know the people that voted for him, the people that are like real MAGA supporters, I didn't even know they existed in the numbers they exist.

[538] It's like he uncovered a rock, like he flipped a rock over, and there was an ant colony of rubes in there.

[539] And just the sheer numbers, it's like, whoa.

[540] And it's a mixed bag, though, right?

[541] It's a mixed bag.

[542] You've got a lot of people very, you know, because it's, I don't buy the idea that it's all just a bunch of, you know, crackers or a bunch of idiots.

[543] It's a, it's a, it's a real range of people.

[544] There's, there's that group of people that were just tired of being told that they're idiots, right?

[545] And they came out in force, right?

[546] You can't tell, you can't talk down to people.

[547] This is for the Democrats.

[548] You can't keep talking down to people and expect at some point they're not going to punch you in the nose, right?

[549] Well, they're still doing that now.

[550] I mean, there's still, uh, there, there was some congressman recently that was talking about all the people that supported Trump.

[551] And he was talking about them all being losers and alcoholics and illiterate.

[552] And I'm like, man, you're talking about how.

[553] the country right and and no lesson learned right no absolutely no self -awareness and uh and that's you know that's the story of of you know every election i think going forward is you know you've you've got the urban centers and you've got everybody else and everybody else feels as if they're getting kicked in the ass and so i but but yeah at the same time you think look we should be able to do better.

[554] We should, I, again, certain policies that they've got, great.

[555] But every day, another tweet that seems a little dysfunctional, every day, you know, some misstep, every day, some self -inflicted wound, shouldn't happen.

[556] Not in the country this size, not where we've got this much talent and skill and capability.

[557] So I don't know what 2020 is going to bring, but it's, we got, we're in for a hell of a ride between, you know, look at all the shit that's happening.

[558] Yeah.

[559] This seems like it might be one of the bigger moves on the chess board though this government shutdown like how this gets resolved one way or another and who comes out at least the visual is the optics are that they're the winner yeah it's it seems very critical because if the democrats win and somehow another he abandons his idea for a wall abandons the billions of dollars that he's been asking for for this wall that gives them momentum we kicked his ass with that wall and we're gonna kick his ass in 2020 that's exactly What they're thinking.

[560] That is exactly what they're discussing in the war room when Nancy Pelosi keeps them all in lockstep.

[561] And she's done a good job so far of keeping the Dems in line.

[562] And that's why they wanted her back in, at least the old guard, wanted her back in because that's what she does well, aside from fundraising.

[563] So I have a feeling that, look, he's asking for whatever, $5 .7 billion.

[564] In the scheme of things, that's a drop in the bucket.

[565] And Schumer and Pelosi and a wide variety of other people, including the previous president, have all voted in the past for additional funding for border security, including.

[566] including fencing and barriers.

[567] But they're not going to budge off of this.

[568] So what the hell does that mean?

[569] Does that mean he's being pushed into a corner where he has no option but to declare a national emergency and use funds elsewhere so that he can say, I finally got it done and looked at Dems didn't do anything?

[570] Who knows?

[571] But I think you're absolutely right.

[572] Whoever's perceived as the winner out of this, you know, ridiculous situation.

[573] Yeah, they're going to beat that drum all the way to 2020.

[574] One of the things they've been saying, too, about the wall is that they want to keep drugs from coming in, illegal drugs.

[575] But from this El Chapo trial, we're learning how the biggest drug dealer in Mexico got his drugs in.

[576] They didn't get it through the wall.

[577] They brought it in through mostly boats.

[578] Yeah.

[579] It's usually not just mules, you know, individuals carting it across some, you know, broken part of the border.

[580] They brought it in through cars and hidden compartments.

[581] They brought it in through boats.

[582] I mean, they're, you know, they basically have some people spilling the beans as to how the exact operation was, was functional.

[583] Yeah, and it didn't seem to involve people carrying it over the border on backpacks.

[584] And now, now one of Guzman's El Chapo's lieutenants is a cooperating witness.

[585] Yeah.

[586] And he's now, he's now claiming that the former president in Mexico, Pignonetto, was given $100 million at the outset of his term.

[587] I think it was 2012 when he started as president.

[588] So when he was president -elect, he'd already won, but he was waiting to take the seat.

[589] According to this Colombian trafficker who was working with Guzman, with Chappel, Pignonetto reached out to him, possibly through his campaign manager, however the story goes.

[590] My friend.

[591] And he asked for $250 million.

[592] And Choppel, you know, came back with a negotiated position and says $100 million, which was then according to this, again, the guys of Colombian trafficker.

[593] You know, how legitimate is he, you know, then, you know, the money was transferred to Pignonetto.

[594] And, you know, Pignonetto's people are saying, that's ridiculous.

[595] Look, we were the ones who tracked him down, you know, even though he escaped, you know, 48 times or whatever, he escaped.

[596] But there's always been this talk about how Choppos arrests were orchestrated, right?

[597] And so that the military, the police were involved somehow, that there was a coordinated effort.

[598] And there's always been that underlying rumor.

[599] You know, is it possible?

[600] Anything's possible.

[601] But if he did get $100 million, you would think El Chapo would be free.

[602] Jesus Christ, if $100 million is going to get you free?

[603] Right, right.

[604] Yeah, I know.

[605] And you would, yeah, you would assume that, you know, what's the upside for Choppel to not talk about it now, right?

[606] Yeah.

[607] But, you know, who knows?

[608] Well, the president, too.

[609] I mean, where's he, doesn't he have tax returns they could look at?

[610] It seems like a lot of cash.

[611] He moved it, just moved it offshore immediately.

[612] Apparently it was, according to this witness, or to this cooperating witness, the money was delivered.

[613] This may be the part of the story that doesn't hold up.

[614] It was delivered to his campaign plane or something, and his campaign manager, you know, took control of it, and then they whisked it away.

[615] What, they got in a hole in the ground somewhere?

[616] Yeah.

[617] Takes out a little at a time, keep everybody on the hush, hush.

[618] You know, I was looking at that, what's that crazy lady's name?

[619] Laura Lumer, the lady to jump Nancy Pelosi's fence.

[620] Oh, yeah.

[621] And she camped out on her yard.

[622] You know what made me think?

[623] How the fucks Nancy Pelosi own that house?

[624] Where's she getting all that cash?

[625] Yeah, what's her net worth now?

[626] A couple hundred million?

[627] Really?

[628] I forget.

[629] I mean...

[630] To do what?

[631] Is she in business?

[632] She came from a hardcore political family in Baltimore, I think.

[633] There's so much dirty money out there.

[634] She's been doing, she's, what?

[635] 100 million?

[636] That was way off.

[637] She's worth 100 million?

[638] Estimated, but that's like, I don't know if it's one of those online net worth.

[639] Where does she get her money from?

[640] Wow.

[641] Maybe she, you know what, maybe she's good at just keeping her per diem.

[642] She doesn't spend her per diem or stipend.

[643] Yeah.

[644] What, I mean, what's her national salary?

[645] Well, she just started getting it for this job.

[646] Wouldn't it be...

[647] $450 grand.

[648] Wow.

[649] No, no, that's the net worth of average net worth or a median net worth of Congresspersons.

[650] Okay.

[651] Congressperson.

[652] So it can't be anything higher than an SIS something.

[653] So it's probably not more than $180 something.

[654] It's all her good work she did with the Clinton Foundation.

[655] Oh, Speaker of the House gets $223 ,000.

[656] $200 ,000.

[657] She's worth $100 million.

[658] What in the holy fuck is that?

[659] How is that?

[660] And she does have a big wall around her place.

[661] Yeah.

[662] Not enough to keep Laura.

[663] Laura Lumer's not an athlete.

[664] She vaulted right over that, son of a mess.

[665] It's not like she's a parkour athlete.

[666] How the fuck did she get over that?

[667] Didn't she show up with some illegals?

[668] Illegal immigrants or whatever, undocumented workers, whatever we use?

[669] She chained herself to Twitter.

[670] I know she did that, too.

[671] That brought...

[672] That's right.

[673] She's going hard for attention.

[674] It's very interesting when these people just try so hard to make it into the news.

[675] Yeah, well, they're looking for.

[676] for a contributor slot.

[677] They're looking for on one network or another.

[678] I think that's what they're doing.

[679] You have to nowadays.

[680] I think that I think, at least my theory is, anyway, if you want to be a paid contributor for a network, there doesn't matter which network, you've got to stake out a position that involves some crazy, right?

[681] You've got to be, like, you either be all in for President Trump or you've got to be all out.

[682] If you live in the center, that ain't happening, right?

[683] Nobody wants to hear from anybody in the middle because that shit's not picking up the ratings at all.

[684] No, no one wants reasonable middle right now.

[685] No, no. The only time that I think reasonable middle would ever work out is if the two ends are so fucked up and they're fighting so hard on the opposite ends, like someone's like, God, surely, it's got to be a reasonable middle, and then someone comes along.

[686] It's almost like the people got to be screaming for it.

[687] But right now it doesn't seem like people are screaming for a sensible centrist position.

[688] It's like World War I Trench warfare, right?

[689] I mean, that's the way it is with the government shutdown right now.

[690] You know, Pelosi's sitting over here in the mud, and President Trump's sitting over here in the mud, and nobody's given any ground, and they're just occasionally taking a shot at each other or throwing a hand grenade, and nobody is making any movement.

[691] So, you know, again, how do they shut, or how do they stop this shutdown?

[692] You can't.

[693] If you're not, if you're not, if there's no effort, it's not going to happen.

[694] So everybody's looking at this right now and thinking, you know, where's it go?

[695] It's affecting the markets.

[696] It makes us look like morons.

[697] I mean, not that others aren't, I mean, look at Britain, right, with the Brexit thing.

[698] Look at France with the yellow vests.

[699] Look at, you know, Germany's having its issue.

[700] So, you know, everybody's having some problems, but, you know, we didn't need to add to the noise.

[701] John Stossel had an interesting video that he put out where he's saying what this does actually highlight is that there's a lot of things that the government does that really should probably be privatized and we wouldn't have these issues.

[702] Yeah.

[703] Do you, does that, I mean, it kind of made sense to me, but I don't know a lot.

[704] Yeah, no, I'm a small government person at the end of the day.

[705] I think, you know, there's certain things that we need to rely on the government for.

[706] And one of them would be, of course, national security, terrific, you know, collection of federal taxes.

[707] Okay, fine, they're going to do that regardless.

[708] But otherwise, just stay out of my kitchen, right?

[709] Don't, don't, you know, and so, and that's why I've always been surprised.

[710] I mean, the Republicans, the problem I got with them is, you know, you can't sit around and argue for small government and then try to tell people what to do with their bodies or who can get married and who can't get married.

[711] Who the fuck cares, right?

[712] Just don't don't hurt people.

[713] Be a good person.

[714] Get on with it.

[715] I don't need to celebrate your lifestyle, but just do it.

[716] I really don't care.

[717] I don't expect you to care about my lifestyle.

[718] I don't care about yours.

[719] But the Republicans have always stuck their nose in this.

[720] And you can't make that argument for wanting small government and, you know, if you just want to step into people's bedrooms all the time.

[721] Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

[722] And I think the only reason why they do it is because it gets people excited that they get to run to to vote for them.

[723] I think when they take these positions, it's not like these are really having an effect on their lives or at some moral stand that they must take because God wants them to do it.

[724] I think they do it because they think that it's going to get, it's going to shift the poll one way or another.

[725] Yeah.

[726] And it's going to get people excited about them possibly making some sort of a difference that they feel is going to significantly affect their position.

[727] But do you ever get to the point?

[728] I mean, I don't know whether that's going to happen, but you would think that you've got the people on the hard, right in the hard left.

[729] They're not going to shift, right?

[730] That's not going to happen.

[731] You're not going to move those people.

[732] So like everybody always talks about, decisions are made by that small group in the center.

[733] So at what point of the group in the center finally put their hands up and go, you guys are all fucked up, right?

[734] How about a third party that's legitimate, not a libertarian party because that hasn't been working out, but something that creates a little bit of a different dynamic.

[735] And we're never going to get term limits, so that's, you know, tilting the windmills.

[736] But maybe, you know, maybe we get that multi -party thing going that, again, okay, it's pie in the sky.

[737] Well, the closest we ever got to was Ross Perrae, right?

[738] Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

[739] And he was a piece of work.

[740] But remember when he took out a whole, he took a block of time, I believe it was a half an hour on national television.

[741] He bought the time to explain how you're getting fucked.

[742] Yeah.

[743] And explain taxes and explain all these different things.

[744] And people like, wait, what?

[745] That's how it works.

[746] It's good TV.

[747] If you can go back and find it, it's, it's, it's, Ross Perot was good TV.

[748] I'll show you what I'm doing here.

[749] This is what we got.

[750] I see, it's all, that's all fucked up.

[751] And here's where you're getting fucked.

[752] Yeah.

[753] Oh, shit.

[754] Hey, we talked about, remember the last time we talked about Huawei?

[755] Yes.

[756] It hasn't gone away.

[757] No, it hasn't gotten away.

[758] See, someone just got arrested yesterday.

[759] Two people.

[760] Yeah.

[761] Two people.

[762] people.

[763] So back story, fascinating.

[764] This is fascinating.

[765] This is an area I could definitely disappear down to Chinese espionage, right?

[766] Yeah.

[767] They're going on forever.

[768] Again, I say, you know, I talk about there's certain things that the current administration is doing that I like.

[769] One of them is the way that they're dealing with China right now.

[770] And yes, the trade issue is buffeting the market somewhat and causing some instability.

[771] But again, the previous administration, the Bush administration, Clinton administration, lots of former presidents.

[772] They all acknowledged that China privately was not a fair trading partner.

[773] This administration is at least trying to call them out and calling them out on the cyber issue too, on their theft of intellectual property.

[774] So anyway, Huawei supposedly owned by the founder and however many employees.

[775] I think Huawei is, by the way, the number one telecommunications equipment manufacturer in the world, and they're the number two seller of smartphones, right?

[776] They're a bigger seller of smartphones in Apple.

[777] So it's Samsung, Huawei, Apple for this.

[778] And so supposedly the company's owned by the founder, and his daughter is the chief operating officer, chief financial officer, one of those.

[779] She was arrested up in Canada, and she was arrested at the request of the U .S. She's up there on bail right now.

[780] waiting extradition hearing.

[781] And the reason was because supposedly she lied about Huawei's dealing with Iran, and they were busting sanctions by dealing and providing certain types of equipment to Iran.

[782] Now, this past week, we've had a Huawei employee who's now been fired by Huawei in Poland, arrested for espionage.

[783] And along with him is a member of the Polish intelligence service.

[784] who retired and was now working for a French telecommunications company, but was arrested also for espionage related to Huawei and related to this individual who up until just recently was working for Huawei.

[785] Huawei claims innocence and says, well, we have no idea.

[786] And the founder just came out and gave this big speech and said, I would never let the Chinese authorities tell me what to do.

[787] And I would certainly never spy on anybody using Huawei's capabilities and technology.

[788] And people are probably thinking, what the fuck are you talking about this for?

[789] Huawei embeds their telecommunications equipment throughout the world.

[790] So it's in our allies' military operations, which then are connected to ours, right, in terms of communications and transfer of intelligence and information.

[791] They're everywhere.

[792] And they chose Poland.

[793] They've been in Poland for about 10 years.

[794] Poland is a very important NATO ally.

[795] So I'm taking a long time I realized to explain this, but what I'm trying to say is nothing happens by happenstance, right?

[796] The Chinese don't operate that way.

[797] So the Chinese authorities, some time ago, years ago, looked at it and went, yeah, this makes sense, right?

[798] We've got Huawei, which, by the way, the founder is a former military People's Liberation Army engineer.

[799] He, they looked at this and they thought, Poland, that would be a good beachhead for us, right?

[800] because they're a key element of NATO.

[801] So let's go to Poland.

[802] So they started burrowing into Poland, striking deals.

[803] And, you know, they're basically the most important foreign relationship now, corporation inside of Poland.

[804] And they're fully embedded.

[805] And they've had access to, at this point, to NATO communications.

[806] And now the arrest of these two individuals.

[807] And people will still, despite this and despite their past, despite their theft of information from everybody from U .S. Steel to to Alcoa, to Lockheed Martin, to DuPont, all the times that they've been stealing information, people will still go, well, I don't, you know, I don't, I don't believe it.

[808] I don't know.

[809] It doesn't make any sense.

[810] I don't see why the Chinese would act that way, and I don't see why we're being so harsh on them.

[811] You know, this terror thing is a bad idea.

[812] My point being, you got to call them out.

[813] They're not going to necessarily change their behavior, but you've got to raise public awareness, make our allies understand, and that's what we're doing right now.

[814] We're saying, you've got to put the brakes on this.

[815] build a firewall, use other companies' telecommunications equipment, right?

[816] Because, you know, the fact that we're tied in with our allies, with Poland and with Canada, and with us, you know, that gives them access to us.

[817] So for someone on the outside, like myself, was trying to look at this, and you say that Huawei is stealing stuff, like stealing stuff from U .S. Steel.

[818] How are they doing that?

[819] Well, they, I mean, the U .S. Steel, admittedly, that was a PLA.

[820] That was a People's Liberation Army, third department operation against DuPont and also against U .S. Steel and others.

[821] So that was a little bit different.

[822] I conflated the two.

[823] But Huawei, one of the things that they do is by having access and embedding their equipment in your communications infrastructure, that gives them the ability then to, in a simple way, to tap in, right?

[824] Intercept packets.

[825] Intercept information, right, basically.

[826] So you have communications.

[827] Imagine we're trading information through NATO.

[828] channels, right?

[829] All they need is that one in, right?

[830] It's like everything else.

[831] It's like fishing, right?

[832] It's just like, you know, when hackers, just an individual hacker sitting in somebody's basement, you know, he just needs that one avenue.

[833] He needs to get one, just, just click on that email.

[834] That gives me the pathway in.

[835] So when, when Huawei is able to embed their technology into, you know, Polish communications, and we're now connected because of our NATO alliance, that gives them access to us, to France, the German, whomever.

[836] And, you know, it's not as if it just happened.

[837] It's not as if Huawei, from a business perspective, said, you know, I bet we could sell some of our equipment in Poland.

[838] Wouldn't that be good?

[839] The guy who was arrested, the Huawei person who was arrested was responsible for the provision of telecommunications equipment to government facilities.

[840] That was his job.

[841] And the guy, the Polish guy, one of his last jobs with the intel service was communications.

[842] I mean, so I guess what I'm saying is none of this shit happens in a bubble.

[843] And it's all, it's all very well mapped out.

[844] The Chinese have a very long view on things, and they are very good at developing operations like this.

[845] And so they've been very successful.

[846] So we'll see.

[847] But it's, I'm glad that the current administration, at least, is calling them out.

[848] I don't believe it's necessarily going to change their behavior.

[849] You know, and we'll probably get some sort of deal where they'll claim to, look, just a couple of years ago, they agreed with President Obama to stop their, cyber shenanigans and they didn't so they just changed the way that they did it um you know that's that's the world we live in but i think it is important to make a stand right yeah the some of the tech people um are saying that they think it's preposterous when they were talking about the ban on android phones some of the tech people say that doesn't make any sense but what you're saying is it goes far beyond the actual phones itself and it's really the the mission of the actual company itself Yeah, I'm saying that there is no way that Huawei and other important Chinese companies are solely privately owned and or have the ability to tell the Chinese authorities that they will not spy on their behalf.

[850] It's just not happening.

[851] You have to go a long ways to come up with that sort of naive viewpoint that says that a Chinese company is going to.

[852] put its foot down and tell President Xi, absolutely not.

[853] We will not do anything to harm another nation's company.

[854] Horshit.

[855] They've spent generations now, decades, jump -starting their industry and moving up the food chain on the global economy by hoovering up everything possible out there.

[856] So if someone like a tech wizard got a hold of one of their routers, have they been able to detect something in there that doesn't belong or some sort of a back?

[857] door or some sort of a way that they could tap in.

[858] It's like if you were, you know, you were Apple and you were sending, you know, data to Raytheon or whatever and you're going back and forth, they could tap in through that.

[859] Has it been proven that there's a device like that?

[860] Yeah, a former NSA director, McConnell, back in 2015, I think early 2015, came out, and NSA came out with an official statement.

[861] And it said every major U .S. corporation of any consequence has been attacked and exploited by Chinese.

[862] And we have never, ever not found Chinese malware within their systems.

[863] Wow.

[864] That was never.

[865] Four years ago.

[866] But malware being software, right?

[867] Right, right.

[868] Is there anything in the hardware itself?

[869] Yes, in a sense that, yes.

[870] In the sense of, like, I'm trying to remember the name of it, but not doing a very good job.

[871] If you have access to or understanding of physical hardware, then you can affect easier.

[872] You can affect physical control of systems, right?

[873] So Stuxnet, I don't know if you remember, Stuxnet was an attack on Iran.

[874] To shut down their nuclear program, right?

[875] Right, exactly, to essentially what it did was it took over control of some centrifuges, overspun them, they heated it, but broke.

[876] And it was a virus.

[877] And it was a piece of software that was able to impact the, you know, physical equipment.

[878] It took control of those systems because in part whoever perpetrated it had much better understanding of that gear, right, or had access to that gear.

[879] and that's a that's an important part of of this and it's happened several times since then and you know i'm not disclosing anything because it's all it's been written about i'm sure it'll be a movie at some point but um that is uh that's a concern i'm far more worried about a company like hawai with its uh integration into uh allied um our allies uh telecommunications systems then i am about sort of the individual sale of phones and you know what that means uh look You know, Amazon and all the others are gathering more data on the average American than, you know, U .S. government or anybody else's government is doing at this point.

[880] Let me ask you this, because this is something that just came up, and we were trying to figure out if it's nonsense or not.

[881] My friend Adam was here the other day, and we're talking about Toyota trucks, and he didn't Google Toyota trucks just discussing it.

[882] And he said, since then, his mentions have been filled with these little advertisements for Toyota trucks.

[883] How does that work?

[884] Well, you know how you talk to Siri?

[885] Yes.

[886] Yeah.

[887] It's simple voice recognition.

[888] It's a carryover from the old days of, you know, optical readers and how, you know, we all thought it was incredible that you could take a piece of paper, put it into a system and it would, like, take that information that was on that piece of paper, and now it was on a database that you could access and manipulate.

[889] And so, you know, voice recognition is no different in the sense that.

[890] So if, if, for example, if I had this switched on and.

[891] And it happens to people, I'm sure all the time walking around their house, they'll say something, and then all of a sudden, Alexa will come on and go, oh, I couldn't find a result for that, but do you want to listen to Ella Fitzgerald or whatever?

[892] Right.

[893] It's always on.

[894] It's always listening, right?

[895] And you can do that with anything.

[896] Like this TV right here, if you wanted to, if I knew that TV was going to go into the office of the deputy foreign minister of a country hostile to our interests.

[897] I could turn that thing into a receiver, obviously, right?

[898] And if I could get my hands on that before delivery, that's a wonderful thing.

[899] Now I've got this in there, and it's like the old days when you would have to, you know, go in on an entry operation and, you know, use silent drills and put a, you know, device in the wall.

[900] Now, you know, we've delivered a TV.

[901] Now I get, you know, video, too.

[902] Hey, good for me. So, the shit's always on, you know, in a sense.

[903] So a regular phone that you get, if you just buy an iPhone and you have C -return.

[904] on so we could say, hey, Siri, and it turns on.

[905] That phone is always listening to you.

[906] Well, now we're getting in over my head, but it could be.

[907] I mean, is it possible?

[908] Is it capable of doing that?

[909] Yes.

[910] Could you do that as an intentional operation?

[911] Sure.

[912] Is it happening because Apple wants to do it and they want to get better understanding of consumer preferences and things?

[913] I have no idea.

[914] That's above my pay grade.

[915] but I will say from an operational perspective, sure, yeah.

[916] From an operational perspective, right, but like it would kind of be scandalous if we found out that Apple is listening to everything that you say, and then they're sending them information to these companies, and then they're trying to sell you whatever you were bringing up.

[917] Yeah, but it's really, if you think about it, it's only one step above what they do anyway, which is, I mean, if I go in here and I search Toyota, you know, I'm in the same situation.

[918] I'm fucking inundated with Toyota mentions, right?

[919] Right, of course.

[920] So, you know, it's like the next iteration of that.

[921] And I suspect that people would, you know, some folks would be outraged, but I'll bet people would just live with it.

[922] Yeah.

[923] We seem to be willing to give up a lot of shit.

[924] You know, as long as we don't think the government's doing it, right?

[925] Right.

[926] If it's Google.

[927] If it's Google with somebody, we seem to be fine with it.

[928] But if it's that, fuck it, if it's that NSA, then now we're best.

[929] But that's not who's fucking making jack off of these things.

[930] Right.

[931] Yeah, it's Amazon and Google and all these companies that are using it to sell your data to make a lot of money.

[932] Anyway.

[933] What do you got, Jamie?

[934] Senators call for investigation of T -Mobile, Sprint, Verizon, AT &T for selling location data.

[935] Phone companies know where you are.

[936] Lawmakers want them to stop selling that information.

[937] Until they can figure out how to tax it.

[938] Yeah, that seems.

[939] But what do they sell them?

[940] that location data for they want to know how many people are in certain areas is that the idea that thing i was telling you where anyone could you can buy that information and find anybody's uh location right but look they they do these things now where there's a billboard they'll put a billboard up in a in a square right um and you'll walk by and the billboard has the ability to see where the eyeballs are right what so you'll look and they'll see oh yeah it's looking at me that billboard's looking at me So that's a success, right?

[941] I've scored a hit or a view.

[942] And that was the old days.

[943] It was like, you know, how many clicks or how many views?

[944] Got a camera?

[945] There's an ability for that billboard to sense.

[946] And again, I go overboard if I start talking technical and someone will call me out and say, well, it's not exactly how it works.

[947] But in simplistic terms, yeah, it's an ability to monitor pedestrian traffic to understand, you know, people's interests and to further refine so that they can sell.

[948] a shit better.

[949] Make your outdoor advertising interactive.

[950] This is putting your phone directly up to it.

[951] So this is like you committing that.

[952] But there is also what he's talking about too.

[953] Huh.

[954] What this guy's talking about.

[955] What's his name again?

[956] So this, you walk up to a phone that's in the photo, you hold your phone up to it.

[957] It sends a signal to your phone.

[958] It seems like it's always Samsung though.

[959] Is it only Samsung phones?

[960] It's a galaxy ad.

[961] This advertises me. I have a song for you.

[962] These are Galaxy ads.

[963] But if you can do a one -way transaction, that transaction can be two -way easily, obviously, right?

[964] And it has to be to some degree because there has to be an exchange of, you know, sort of a handshake.

[965] So.

[966] I didn't know that billboards are staring at you, though.

[967] Yeah.

[968] No, it's, it's pretty crazy shit.

[969] Look, I mean, this, you can, tracking now, understanding where people are, right?

[970] As an example, you know, it used to be putting a beacon, right?

[971] Investigations, you know, you put a beacon on a car, right?

[972] And it was a little clumsy, but it got better.

[973] better and better as you go along.

[974] Now it's pretty remarkable.

[975] But you can also, think about the electronics that exist in a current vehicle and a new vehicle.

[976] You can, every one of those has a unique signature.

[977] So whether it's the tire pressure indicators, you know how you get in your car and it says your left front tire is low?

[978] Well, that's a particular signal.

[979] If I know that signal for that car, I'll bet I can find that car, right?

[980] And it's like, it's the same with all the other electronics that exist within a vehicle, or just in the shit that we carry around.

[981] They've all got some kind of signature.

[982] So I, but again, I think, you know, most people are willing to give up a surprising amount of privacy for whatever reason, maybe because they're getting accustomed to it and they're not shocked by shit anymore.

[983] Hey, Jamie, what were you saying today that somebody made a slip up about phone calls, the thing you were saying about the different data that they've collected?

[984] you were just telling me about some investigation Was it that the thing I was just talking about?

[985] They could find anybody's phone?

[986] No, you were saying that through the emails and phone calls and the guy had fucked up by saying phone calls I'm having a brain Oh my God I don't dare you You just told me before the show I've been thinking about a lot of stuff Smok it too much I've been thinking a lot of stuff I got a lot of shit on my mind right now You cooked your brain with that weed.

[987] A lot of stuff now.

[988] I'm still thinking about that Huawei thing.

[989] We were talking about right before.

[990] If you remember, no big deal.

[991] I think it had something to do with the mule investigation.

[992] Yeah.

[993] Yeah.

[994] What do you think?

[995] When's that going to end?

[996] Fuck.

[997] That guy is calculated.

[998] Does that mean soon?

[999] He would scare the shit out of me if he was looking at my life.

[1000] Because it seems like that guy takes his time.

[1001] Yeah.

[1002] About two years of worth of time.

[1003] The one thing I've got, remember it?

[1004] It was the National Security Advisor on CNN last night.

[1005] He was talking about.

[1006] about the bill bar his um the access to information he would already have and and also be gaining I guess by becoming the attorney general they were discussing whether he will um share all the information coming out they wanted them to commit to doing that and he was just sort of saying I can't commit because I don't know what's in there yet and they were just sort of like giving their both their sides I'm like what he could know what he would know what he will know and that's all I was sort of saying and he sort of cut himself off of sharing about how much information this guy might have access to it.

[1007] It seemed like it.

[1008] And he was the former National Security Advisor, I believe, is all that was.

[1009] So one of the things that everybody was scared of was that the NSA was building some gigantic place somewhere outside of Salt Lake, where they would store every single phone call that you ever made, every single email.

[1010] Yeah.

[1011] Yeah.

[1012] There was that whole stink at one point about what they were actually holding on to, right, the collection of information.

[1013] And there was some misreporting about how they've actually got your phone calls.

[1014] Well, what they've got is they've got number and duration of call, right?

[1015] I mean, that's the key pieces of information that they've got.

[1016] Could they at some point, you know, suddenly decide you're a target of interest?

[1017] And so we won't, we will start collecting on your calls?

[1018] Yeah.

[1019] But was NSA gathering everybody's phone conversations, no. It used to be a thing that you would have to wiretap somebody.

[1020] Like if you were going after the mob, they had to install a bug.

[1021] But they don't have to do that anymore.

[1022] No, no, no, no. Technology now is, I mean, I remember the old days of operations, right?

[1023] I mean, if we wanted to do it, we're overseas, it's compounded incredibly.

[1024] It's made really difficult to do observation posts and listening posts and everything overseas, right?

[1025] Because it's not your turf.

[1026] And so you've got to come up with a, I'm going to airtight plan.

[1027] But it was the same way.

[1028] you still had to get physical access, right?

[1029] The phone lines, you had to clip off and you had to, you know, then you had to figure out where am I putting the gear, where am I going to put the batteries, how am I going to store this shit?

[1030] And then you got to listen to it, right?

[1031] Then you got to, and what happens is it starts collecting like this.

[1032] You start getting mountains of tapes, right?

[1033] And you're not getting real time, which is a problem.

[1034] But nowadays, no, it's entirely different.

[1035] But I think, you know, if we look at today's concerns, right?

[1036] if we look at what are people worried about it?

[1037] What should they be worried about?

[1038] I know that privacy always comes up.

[1039] People always talk about it.

[1040] But I guess I keep going back to my same point, which was I don't see people like with pitchforks and, you know, the torch is going down to, you know, complain to Jeff Bezos that, you know, Amazon's collecting massive amounts of data or, you know, T -Mobile and Sprint and all these are mapping our locations as we move around.

[1041] I just don't see it.

[1042] I mean, that probably raised nobody's interest for the most part.

[1043] that article that you just pulled up.

[1044] And I, you know, I guess in part it's because, again, we become kind of used to it, become accustomed to it.

[1045] So, so fine.

[1046] But, you know, what should we be worried about?

[1047] Well, I tell you what we should be worried about mostly is state -sponsored activity by countries whose interests almost never align with ours.

[1048] Now, it would include China, certainly includes Russia, who's Iran, the shit that they're doing.

[1049] China has a policy, information domination, which means they've determined that the next war, the next modern, large -scale war, is going to be won by whoever has control over information.

[1050] So where are they putting all their resources?

[1051] China knows that they're not going to build a military that's going to be able to reach around the globe for the most part, although they're, you know, they're beefing up their resources.

[1052] What are they doing?

[1053] It's cyber and it's space.

[1054] right so I know a lot of people were kicking the president in the ass and laughing about the space force because it is funny right but the uniforms would be amazing but they they talk about this but China honestly believes and it's putting their resources into cyber and to space and what does that mean well if they're anti -satellite technology that they've been developing and working on and continue to work on the whole point of that is to take control of communications and surveillance abilities whether it's ours or allies in the event of something major that happens So they would have the ability to shut off our satellites?

[1055] Yeah, yeah.

[1056] And if you do that, then what does that mean?

[1057] Well, that means you're blind, right?

[1058] And we're suddenly walking around with compasses and maps, you know, trying to shoot an azimuth and figure out where the hell, you know, the target is.

[1059] So China is currently developing that, or they have developed something that disrupts satellites?

[1060] They're working on it now.

[1061] Yeah, they're working on it now.

[1062] They develop some of it.

[1063] They're working to get the next generation.

[1064] It's like every nation that has the resources and ability understands that and is doing the same.

[1065] It's not like we're not.

[1066] Right.

[1067] What is their excuse?

[1068] They don't have an excuse.

[1069] They don't have an excuse.

[1070] They have the right to do it.

[1071] I mean, it's not like they, you know.

[1072] Right.

[1073] As long as they don't use it in an illegal way, they have the right to develop the technology.

[1074] There's no treaty that says you can't develop anti -satellite technology, right?

[1075] There's the start treaties, there's the nuclear conventions that we have with Russia, which is another interesting topic because we're right now arguing with the Russians over the latest nuke agreement that took place.

[1076] some time ago.

[1077] It's coming up for renewal sometime soon, a year or two years from now.

[1078] And the Russians have been cheating on a previous agreement.

[1079] And so now they try to say we're cheating on the new one.

[1080] And so that's an interesting thing to be watching.

[1081] But the point being is that there's conventions that try to, you know, control the numbers for warheads or for delivery mechanisms, missiles or submarines, whatever, bombers.

[1082] But not for this new world, cybers.

[1083] But not for this The Pentagon's still trying to figure out what, you know, a war means in cyberspace.

[1084] Right.

[1085] You know, how do you respond?

[1086] Right.

[1087] What's the threshold?

[1088] You know, and then what's an appropriate response?

[1089] And so, well, maybe we'll get there.

[1090] Maybe we'll start having these discussions and create treaties that will allow that.

[1091] But right now, from China's perspective, again, not to beat on China, but I'm much more concerned about China for our national security.

[1092] There are much bigger concern than Russia is.

[1093] Russia's punching above its weight.

[1094] And Putin's, you know, Putin's a dick, no doubt about it, right?

[1095] And they've doing what they always do, which is metal in democracy.

[1096] That's been their methodology for ever since they've been around.

[1097] Yeah.

[1098] But, you know, that's small potatoes.

[1099] They've got the GDP of a small European country, you know, and when the oil prices, you know, are in the toilet, they really are sucking wind.

[1100] So, yeah, we've got to be concerned with Russia and understand that their interests are never aligned with ours, you know, for the most part, maybe we tried to imagine they were with Syria and ISIS and everything.

[1101] But Russia's only interest there was maintaining their leverage and increasing it and not losing their military foothold there.

[1102] That was their primary interest.

[1103] We mirror our values and we mirror our interests on other countries.

[1104] And so we imagined it somehow we're all in this fight against ISIS together.

[1105] Yeah, whore shit.

[1106] So, yeah, China is a much bigger issue.

[1107] And we should be focused on that.

[1108] And to some degree, this administration is.

[1109] So that's where I say, look, you can't just keep complaining and bitching and moaning because you don't like President Trump.

[1110] There's certain things that are going on that you should be willing to say, okay, that makes sense.

[1111] Maybe I don't like the messenger, but that part of it makes sense.

[1112] Is it his personal, I mean, is it because of his dealings with China from the business world, that he understands it better, that he's more concerned with the imbalance of the trade?

[1113] I think what happened was, what do I know?

[1114] This is speculation.

[1115] But I suspect that what happened was he came into it focused on the trade imbalance.

[1116] And as he was sitting there and talking about the trade imbalance, more of the conversation from the National Security Council and from the agency and others in terms of saying, well, yeah, this is part of the reason why, and this is the long -term effects of their theft of intellectual property.

[1117] This is why, in part, they've been successful in these areas.

[1118] So I think there was probably more and more discussion talking about their economic espionage and theft of IP, and that became then an issue for him.

[1119] I think initially, and still to this day, I think the big issue is just he wants to try to create a win in terms of the trade imbalance.

[1120] Russia seems to us here domestically, speaking for myself, when I think about it, and I think about the narrative that's been sort of delivered to us, is that Russia is this military danger.

[1121] We're worried about Putin taking over other countries.

[1122] We're worried about Putin's power the way he kills dissidents, the way he kills political opponents and journalists.

[1123] We think about China, and even with the Huawei arrests, we're like, eh, no one seems to be concerned.

[1124] It doesn't seem to light any bulbs over here.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] No, you're right.

[1127] I don't know why that is, except, you know, Putin's more like a thug.

[1128] He's a visual.

[1129] Right, right.

[1130] And also, I mean, look, he's been very clear about, you know, wanting to try to rebuild the Soviet Union.

[1131] So whether it's Crimea and the annexation of that or whether taking over Eastern Ukraine and, you know, or maintaining a position in Georgia, whatever it is, you know, certainly, you know, his attacks or the FSB's attacks overseas against, you know, dissidents and others.

[1132] Yeah, he's just more in your face.

[1133] He's like Tony Soprano, right?

[1134] And so you can look at that.

[1135] China's always been, you know, sort of this thing, right?

[1136] And, look, China's fantastic.

[1137] The history is amazing.

[1138] You know, the places are incredible.

[1139] I think it's, you know, we should be trading with China.

[1140] We should be doing a huge amount of business with China.

[1141] We should, you know, clear the decks and try to the degree we can level the playing field.

[1142] But we should also be pragmatic and realize what they do, you know, in terms of their theft of IP.

[1143] And so, you know, because that, again, that probably won't change.

[1144] But, yeah, we absolutely should be dealing with China all the time.

[1145] But I think that they've always kind of been viewed more in more of a sophisticated fashion maybe because Putin is just sort of in your face.

[1146] And he's good at it.

[1147] He's very successful.

[1148] He's a smart son of a bitch.

[1149] But I think he's pretty easy to read, right?

[1150] He's thuggish and he, you know, he longs for those days of the Soviet Union.

[1151] So we should understand that everything he does is because of that.

[1152] It's because he would love to rebuild the Soviet Union.

[1153] And so we shouldn't be surprised by any sort of, you know, aggressive move that he makes against his neighbors, and we should always push back.

[1154] And to be fair, this administration, not to beat their drum, but the actions they've taken against Russia, despite the fact that you've got people calling him a puppet of Putin, are more significant than the previous administration took.

[1155] Like what has he done?

[1156] The sanctions against, you know, key individuals and companies within Russia as an example.

[1157] Those are the toughest sanctions, you know, have been placed on Russia.

[1158] ever, the provision of weapons and assistance to the Ukrainians, right?

[1159] That was something the previous administration said, no, not going to do that, you know, because we don't want any blow back.

[1160] That's a good thing, right?

[1161] That should be done.

[1162] Pushing back against them on the 2011 nuke deal, right?

[1163] Or sorry, on the previous, on the start deal prior to the 2011 deal, and calling them out and saying, look, you're cheating on this.

[1164] and you, you know, you've got to be held accountable.

[1165] I mean, there's certain things there that makes sense, and that don't add up.

[1166] If you talk to somebody who says, well, he's an absolute puppet, and you say, well, okay, he's a puppet, so why is he doing certain things that seem counter to Russian interests?

[1167] And they'll say, well, because he's smart, and he's like, he doesn't want to get caught out.

[1168] See, he's playing a long game here.

[1169] And I'm thinking, okay, you know, maybe.

[1170] Maybe, who knows?

[1171] But I haven't strapped on my tinfoil hat yet to get to that point.

[1172] So I don't know.

[1173] Yeah, that seems like a complicated one if they have some compromising information about them.

[1174] That was always the fear, right?

[1175] Is that they knew something or maybe it was business dealings, maybe it was people peeing on them or something like that?

[1176] If they had, if they did, and again, anything, in today's world, anything's possible, right?

[1177] Right.

[1178] And I wish we had somebody else in there who was more elegant and eloquent and sophisticated.

[1179] Does anybody stand out?

[1180] Not right now.

[1181] No. I don't think anybody's going to challenge it from the Republican side.

[1182] And on the Democratic side, I think they're going to get 18 or 20, you know, potential candidates.

[1183] And they're going to end up eating their own, right?

[1184] So it could be a real, you know, slug fest in their for the Democrats.

[1185] As they're trying to establish someone who's a viable candidate.

[1186] Kind of like what the Republicans did, right?

[1187] And we ended up with, you know, we ended up with President Trump.

[1188] And, you know, the Democrats, if they're not careful, you can end up with the same thing.

[1189] Look, they're talking about Joe Biden.

[1190] Joe Biden's an excellent cat, right?

[1191] He's 150 years old.

[1192] He's 150 years old.

[1193] And he lost twice before.

[1194] Yeah.

[1195] But everybody loves the person that's on the bench, right?

[1196] Right.

[1197] Until they get in the game.

[1198] And so, you know, who knows where they're going to go with that.

[1199] But, you know, could they have this idea that they've got compromising information on him.

[1200] So here's what I think is that if Mueller has figured this out, right, and he's been quiet about it and everything, then the most remarkable thing about this investigation will be that nobody leaked, right?

[1201] Because you can't keep a secret in Washington.

[1202] And so the fact that for two years now, we don't have like that, that bullet, you know, that they think they're going to come up with at some point.

[1203] my inclination is to think that you know muller's going to finish this investigation issue some findings and nobody's going to be happy right because there won't be a bullet and so the left won't be happy the right won't be happy because he'll still be pointing out the fact that there was you know a lot of you know stupid moves on the campaigns part and that there was uh inappropriate activity by you know people like mannafort and others but do i think there's going to be some smoking gun i don't i don't think so because and my reason for saying that is because i've never known Washington and not be able to keep or to to be able to keep a secret.

[1204] Right.

[1205] Has anyone like Mueller ever done one of these things before, though?

[1206] He seems uniquely calculated.

[1207] Yeah, he's done this before.

[1208] And he has.

[1209] He's like, look, he's a very smart guy and a very seasoned operator, investigator.

[1210] And he's got good people working for him.

[1211] And it's absolutely correct to let him go with this and just let him finish it up, right?

[1212] But when is that going to be?

[1213] Who knows?

[1214] Right.

[1215] Nobody, they've been talking about, oh, he's going to wrap it up next week.

[1216] He's going to wrap it up this week.

[1217] he's going to no he's not you know he'll you know you think he's going to wrap it up who knows this could this literally could go on to into it's going to have to end before probably the end of this year i don't think even he's going to want to for political calculations let it go into too close to 2020 in the election right so regardless even though i don't think he's a particularly political individual i think he's going to see the the wisdom of wrapping it up before then and then letting the chips fall wherever they do what's astonishing to me is how anytime something does come out on Trump, it just seems to slide right off.

[1218] Yeah, yeah.

[1219] No, that is true.

[1220] That is true.

[1221] Because I think what's happening is they're just throwing everything out there every day, right?

[1222] Yeah.

[1223] And much like, you know, our willingness to give up privacy because we keep hearing about another hack or another leak or we know that Amazon's doing this or that.

[1224] I think, you know, it's that constant drumbeat and that mudsling.

[1225] And I think the Dems haven't done themselves any favors or the resistance movement or whatever we want to call it.

[1226] Because I think people are just immune to it.

[1227] and it's hardened the Trump's base to think you know he's under attack every minute so I got to support him harder yeah yeah but you know who do you think's gonna end up in in the race I mean who's got the best chance it's a good question I mean on the left hands I mean I my real fear is that Hillary's gonna run again so I almost did one of those TV spit takes it's possible it is crazy you know one of the things that she said in one of the more recent interviews, she said, I'd like to be president.

[1228] I'd like to be president.

[1229] Just what do you want to put it on your resume?

[1230] Yeah.

[1231] What the fuck does that mean?

[1232] Yeah.

[1233] I think I could do a great job in turning this country around.

[1234] I have the leadership ability to really affect a change.

[1235] No, no, no, no. I'd like to be president.

[1236] Yeah, I got some time.

[1237] I could do that.

[1238] I'm scared of them.

[1239] Yeah.

[1240] Well, you know what?

[1241] And you're right.

[1242] She may, but I do think there's going to be so much pressure on her from the part.

[1243] to just say no you can't i think she's going to look at that and go i there's no chance i can rally the apparatus around me like i did the last time and because of that um because even she can't run without the machine right i mean that's they they've got to figure that out so i just wonder if she has so many people that owe her favors and she's so deeply entrenched in the world that she could somehow another muster up enough support to give it one more shot yeah i mean it's it's possible i mean yeah But then you're talking about her, all the way to what, to Kamala Harris, Corey Booker.

[1244] Tulsi Gabbard.

[1245] Tulsi Gabbard.

[1246] Tulsi Gabbard.

[1247] She's a veteran, young, makes a lot of sense, very smart and articulate.

[1248] I think she has a real legitimate chance of getting people excited about a real future.

[1249] Yeah.

[1250] Yeah, I would not, you know, I think it's time.

[1251] We're certainly close.

[1252] We're getting to that point where we end up with a female president.

[1253] And hey, good for us, right?

[1254] I got no problems.

[1255] You know, there's, I think it would actually, you know, I think it would turn the ship in a nice direction, right?

[1256] As long as the policies are good.

[1257] I don't care who it is as long as we're not, you know, veering off into, you know, sort of socialist policy, you know, land and thinking somehow we're all going to end up with universal basic income, you know.

[1258] I've got a guy coming on talking about that.

[1259] Andrew Yang wants to describe universal basic income and what the benefits would be.

[1260] Yeah.

[1261] The reason being that they're worried that automation is going to kill a gigantic percentage of jobs in manufacturing, fast food, medical field, trucks, all these different things, that universal basic income might actually be something that we need at a certain point in time because so many jobs will go away and go away so rapidly.

[1262] Do you think that kills motivation?

[1263] That's a good question.

[1264] What I thought was maybe, but maybe if the motivation is not just to survive, but the motivation to succeed and do well, it would get people to do what they actually want to do for a living or chase down what they actually want to do and get the motivated to have a better life, not just motivated to live.

[1265] Follow their passion.

[1266] Yes.

[1267] It's hard because when you give people things for nothing, you generally do kill their motivation.

[1268] I mean, you look no further than trust fund kids.

[1269] Right, right.

[1270] Yeah, I think that's a great example.

[1271] Most people will go towards, you know, welfare.

[1272] But I think you're right on the other end of the spectrum.

[1273] To me, trust fund kids, I've seen this listless way they approach life.

[1274] You know, they just laissez -faire just, I just think that it's really hard for people to want something better when they're not.

[1275] they have enough.

[1276] They're good.

[1277] Everything's good.

[1278] They don't have to do anything.

[1279] And you don't have to motivate yourself to do anything to get that money.

[1280] Yeah.

[1281] I don't understand the logistics behind it, you know, in terms of how it gets paid for.

[1282] The actual numbers.

[1283] Right.

[1284] Yeah.

[1285] But the part that I, that worries me is this issue of motivation.

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] And ensuring that then, you know, everybody's willing to unask the sofa and, and do something productive, right?

[1288] And it's not just, we can't be like a nation of, uh, people following their passion because their passion is completely unproductive.

[1289] Macromay.

[1290] Yeah.

[1291] I like making dream catchers.

[1292] Pottery.

[1293] I love potter.

[1294] I love dream catchers, too.

[1295] I got one in my truck.

[1296] Do you really?

[1297] No, no, I don't.

[1298] No, I don't.

[1299] Jesus, what are you doing?

[1300] I got a hula girl on the dashboard of my truck, which is getting a new engine, by the way, even as we speak.

[1301] Your trucks get a new engine?

[1302] Yeah, the wagoneer.

[1303] It's a grand wagoneer.

[1304] The old wood paneled.

[1305] The old one?

[1306] Yeah, the last year that they made at 91.

[1307] You still drive one of those things?

[1308] Oh, absolutely.

[1309] It's a great car.

[1310] But I had to rebuild the engine.

[1311] Why don't I get something that works good, like a new one?

[1312] Because this thing is great.

[1313] Look, the kids can climb all around it.

[1314] I can drive to the drive -in theater, and they put a math in the back.

[1315] Driving in the 50s?

[1316] Drop the hatchback, and they sit there, and I do live in the 50s, actually.

[1317] Drive -in theater with a little clip on speaker.

[1318] Have you been to a drive in the theater?

[1319] It's fantastic.

[1320] I have not in a long time, though.

[1321] Is that what you have?

[1322] You're one of those?

[1323] Yeah, I got the blue.

[1324] It's blue with a sand interior.

[1325] Who's the fucking wizard that decided to go with those wood panels on the side?

[1326] It's fantastic.

[1327] And then how did that, how did everybody wake up and decide that that sucks?

[1328] Yeah.

[1329] It took a while.

[1330] I tell you something, it's a great vehicle.

[1331] And it's also, nobody gets anywhere near me, because that fucker is made of all steel.

[1332] Yeah, they're heavy.

[1333] Yeah, they're heavy.

[1334] and that son of a bitch will plow through anything, but it's just a great car, and the dog loves it, and I can fit all the...

[1335] The dog loves it.

[1336] Yeah, and the fishing...

[1337] And I got, yeah, you put the fishing poles in there, it's all good.

[1338] That doesn't even have anti -lock brakes, does it?

[1339] No. No. Are you kidding?

[1340] No, I'm lucky if I have brakes.

[1341] Don't you want a car with brakes?

[1342] Eh, yeah.

[1343] It's big enough.

[1344] That's what happens.

[1345] When you work in security for too long, you're like, There's no security.

[1346] Get the fuck out of here.

[1347] My seatbelt doesn't work.

[1348] It doesn't?

[1349] But I've been meaning to fix it.

[1350] Why don't you have a seatbelt?

[1351] The receiver is broken.

[1352] Part where it clicks in?

[1353] Yeah, exactly.

[1354] I've been meaning to get that fixed.

[1355] Those cars don't even Bing when you don't have your seatbelt on it.

[1356] No, it doesn't talk to me at all.

[1357] And you know what else?

[1358] Nobody can track me in that car.

[1359] That's, oh, that's why.

[1360] Nobody's tracking me in that son of a bitch.

[1361] So you just leave your phone at home and you're fucking, you're a gross.

[1362] I'm good.

[1363] I'm off.

[1364] Pick up a boner.

[1365] Not a boner.

[1366] I met a burner.

[1367] Hello, Freud.

[1368] A burner phone at 7 -11.

[1369] Well, the good thing is I can fit my boner in there too, which is good.

[1370] That's the thing that most burner phones come with boners, right?

[1371] That's exactly right.

[1372] You get in a burner phone.

[1373] As soon as you get that burner, you get a boner.

[1374] And then, yeah, yeah, it's a great.

[1375] It's a great vehicle.

[1376] Like I said, my kids love it.

[1377] Mugsy and Scooter and Sluggo.

[1378] That's interesting that you got it because you can't track you with it.

[1379] And also, they can't, let me ask you this.

[1380] This is a tough one.

[1381] I want to ask you two conspiracy ones, but this one's a tough one.

[1382] Michael Hastings, do you know his case?

[1383] Do you know the story?

[1384] Yeah.

[1385] What do you think happened there?

[1386] Well, let's explain what happened.

[1387] Who he was.

[1388] He was a journalist.

[1389] He was embedded in, was it in Iraq?

[1390] During the war, he was writing a story for Rolling Stone.

[1391] And he was writing about which general was it?

[1392] It was that?

[1393] McChrystal it was McChrystal Stanley McChrystal yeah so he wrote this story and apparently while this happened the Iceland volcano went off so they suspended air travel so he was stuck there far longer than he was supposed to be and people got comfortable with this guy being around right and so they behaved the way they behaved they made some jokes about things he apparently made some jokes about Obama this guy put this Michael Hastings put all this stuff in Rolling Stone, it wound up being a huge scandal.

[1394] McChrystal had to step down, and there was a lot of people that hated that guy, and a lot of people loved McChrystal, and he was of highly respected general.

[1395] Yeah, absolutely.

[1396] He had to step down from his position, and next thing you know, X amount of time later, this guy drives his car 150 miles an hour into a tree.

[1397] it blows up, the engine goes flying, the whole deal.

[1398] The conspiracy theory was that there was a way, because he had a brand new Mercedes, there was a way that they could take over the controls of your vehicle, the acceleration, the braking, the steering, and they could do all this remotely.

[1399] If they put something in your car, like we were talking about, if you could get a hold of this television, you could turn that television into a receiver.

[1400] Right.

[1401] Do you think that it's possible that someone could have got, a hold of his car and made him suicide himself?

[1402] Two parts to it.

[1403] One is, is it possible that you can take control of a vehicle?

[1404] A modern vehicle.

[1405] Not my.

[1406] Right.

[1407] Not the Woody, not the Woody, as we call it.

[1408] But so yes, it's absolutely possible that you can take, there's no two ways about that.

[1409] Acceleration, steering, everything.

[1410] Yeah.

[1411] If you've got, and, and I mean, think about, people should think about it.

[1412] Think about the OnStar, or think about the ability for your car to send data to the vehicle manufacturer, right, to tell them, you know, what's going on with your vehicle.

[1413] Right.

[1414] That's a handshake operation, right?

[1415] Once you do that, that means there's an exchange of information.

[1416] What does that mean?

[1417] Well, that means you can access.

[1418] Can you access that information?

[1419] Sure, of course you can.

[1420] Does that mean you can then take physical control?

[1421] Sure.

[1422] It's just another iteration of the exchange of information, right?

[1423] software can take control of physical systems.

[1424] So that, yeah.

[1425] So the first part is, yes.

[1426] Is it possible that that car could have been taken over?

[1427] Sure.

[1428] Do I think that's what happened?

[1429] I have no idea.

[1430] I really don't.

[1431] Of course.

[1432] Yeah.

[1433] But it's certainly a possibility.

[1434] I mean, when I hear people talk about, you know, certain conspiracy theories, I look at it and go, there's just no fucking way that could happen.

[1435] Like what one?

[1436] What one do you say no fucking one?

[1437] Actually, now I have a hard time thinking of one.

[1438] I like the theory that with every burner phone you get a boner.

[1439] That's, I just, I can't imagine that could happen.

[1440] But it sounds good.

[1441] I think I've been misunderstood.

[1442] What I'm saying is you get the burner phone because you have a boner already.

[1443] You're trying to get rid of the boner.

[1444] Oh, I didn't see the boner.

[1445] Now I get, I got the priorities wrong.

[1446] Yeah.

[1447] So, anyway.

[1448] I tell you the secretary to get a burner phone too.

[1449] And you meet her at the old.

[1450] That's it.

[1451] Hotel, motel holiday.

[1452] Oh, man. Just like Jeff Bezos, man. That's $70 billion down the toilet.

[1453] Oh, yeah.

[1454] How did they get his text messages?

[1455] That's a good fucking cybersecurity thing.

[1456] They got his text messages to his mistress.

[1457] Yeah.

[1458] Who knows how that happens?

[1459] Unless maybe she, meaning Mrs. Bezos, maybe she hired some dodgy investigator to come up with that, you know.

[1460] Well, I noticed that it was an iPhone.

[1461] Now, if there's an iPhone and he had an iPad, and she had the password to the iPad, she could get all those messages.

[1462] Yeah, yeah.

[1463] But it's, where do they live?

[1464] They live in Washington, right?

[1465] State of Washington.

[1466] Yeah.

[1467] All right.

[1468] So I guess that's communal, I think.

[1469] Yeah.

[1470] Half and half.

[1471] Well, they started the company together.

[1472] She helped them.

[1473] So that's a wrap.

[1474] But, you know, whatever.

[1475] $70 billion.

[1476] Yeah, it's rough to give away $70 billion.

[1477] But let's be completely honest.

[1478] honest.

[1479] If you're, if you have 70 billion dollars and you notice whether you have 70 or a hundred, you kind of, you might be an asshole.

[1480] Yeah.

[1481] Yeah.

[1482] So that's a fair thing.

[1483] How do you know the difference?

[1484] Yeah.

[1485] How the fuck do you even feel it?

[1486] If she takes 70 billion, is his lifestyle change?

[1487] Yeah.

[1488] Does he have to get rid of one of his jets?

[1489] Like what happens?

[1490] He's got to give up cable.

[1491] Does he have a smaller ring for his mistress?

[1492] But she's not even a mistress.

[1493] Apparently they were separated.

[1494] We're not going to take that trip.

[1495] Oh, geez, really?

[1496] Yeah.

[1497] Okay.

[1498] She's a girl friend.

[1499] Okay.

[1500] So they're saying he was cheating on his wife, but he wasn't really because they were separated.

[1501] Yeah.

[1502] You would think that that's a fair game, but I'm sure that it's anyway, it's going to be costly.

[1503] She's so hot, though.

[1504] Oh, she's so hot.

[1505] Who, Mrs. Bezos?

[1506] The new one.

[1507] The new one.

[1508] Oh, I think they're friends.

[1509] I think she and Mrs. Bezos were friends.

[1510] They're friends, yeah.

[1511] It's all going to be very amicable.

[1512] They fucking circle.

[1513] They know what they're doing.

[1514] Wow.

[1515] Little coyotes.

[1516] Man. They know what they're doing.

[1517] They just take their time.

[1518] They're patient wolves.

[1519] Yeah.

[1520] I think he's, it's interesting.

[1521] because I think he's changed.

[1522] If you look at Bezos over the years, right?

[1523] Yeah.

[1524] And you look at the way he is now, just his physical appearance, right?

[1525] You can just tell that...

[1526] Money.

[1527] Yeah, money.

[1528] Probably hired a personal trainer, too.

[1529] I bet he's got the money.

[1530] He's going to probably have to let him go now.

[1531] He can't afford that shit anymore.

[1532] I lost $70 billion.

[1533] Well, the smart thing would honestly be, too, for him to give away half.

[1534] Don't even duke it out with lawyers.

[1535] That'll take too long.

[1536] He has no pre -nup agreement.

[1537] There's no prenuptial agreement.

[1538] it's understood that Ms. Sanchez has sent text messages to a friend showing off her new relationship with the billionaire and the friend sent them to the inquire, what a cunt.

[1539] You, fucking dumbass.

[1540] Oh, damn.

[1541] She's hot, though.

[1542] She looks like that actress.

[1543] I can't remember her name.

[1544] Yeah, yeah, yeah, the one on Modern Family.

[1545] Yeah, that's it.

[1546] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1547] Smoking.

[1548] Yeah, I can see what she sees at him.

[1549] He's a handsome man. Yeah, he's a, you know, it's the thin neck in relationship with the large head.

[1550] Chicks love that.

[1551] Jeff, you're so handsome.

[1552] They love that look.

[1553] You're such a man. Didn't he send her, like, naked selfies, too?

[1554] Oh, no. Not him, too.

[1555] I think you did.

[1556] Oh, go.

[1557] I think you did.

[1558] What is that?

[1559] You know, why do dudes think that women want to look at their junk, right?

[1560] I mean, I know.

[1561] I just don't.

[1562] I don't get that part of it.

[1563] I don't get what makes you think, unless you've really been drinking, that you're going to go, you know what?

[1564] I'll bet she really wants to see my ball sack.

[1565] Some girls do.

[1566] Some girls are crazy.

[1567] I guess.

[1568] The good ones.

[1569] Damn, she's.

[1570] That good ones.

[1571] The good ones.

[1572] Lauren Sanchez has been a romantic relationship with Jeff Bailey.

[1573] She's hot.

[1574] Since April 2018.

[1575] So it's a long -term thing.

[1576] May, June, July.

[1577] That's enough.

[1578] He's probably shot so many loads.

[1579] Wow.

[1580] He's in love now.

[1581] Donald Trump had something to say about it?

[1582] Yeah, he called him Joe Bozo.

[1583] What do you say?

[1584] So sorry to hear the news about Jeff Bozo being taken down by a competitor who's reporting, I understand, is far more accurate in the reporting in his lobbyist newspaper, the Amazon Washington Post.

[1585] Hopefully, the paper will soon be placed in a better and more responsible hands.

[1586] Yeah, he wants...

[1587] He wants her to get it.

[1588] He wants Bezos to not have the Washington Post, which is highly critical of the president, while the inquirer has been known to kill stories critical of the president.

[1589] Oh, so the inquirer got a hold of the story.

[1590] I get it.

[1591] But you know what?

[1592] I'll bet Jeff Bezos, in president's mind, I'll bet his...

[1593] his opinion went up when he saw that picture of Sanchez.

[1594] Probably.

[1595] Yeah.

[1596] But then he probably read the text messages.

[1597] He was like, oh, amateur.

[1598] Yeah.

[1599] Come on.

[1600] Come on.

[1601] What are you going to do?

[1602] What are you going to do?

[1603] Jump right out of the frying pan?

[1604] Get right back into the fire?

[1605] How about you go to fucking Abiza and dance on the beach with a hundred of those broads?

[1606] Take a little time off, is what you're saying.

[1607] Jeff needs a coach.

[1608] Isn't that interesting how dudes do, I think, but wealthy dudes seem to do that, more than others.

[1609] They seem to go straight from one.

[1610] relationship immediately into another one.

[1611] Yes.

[1612] Whereas I think that the average dude, I think, is doing what you're thinking, which is like, yeah, I'm going to take some time down.

[1613] Well, the average dude also isn't running a gigantic multinational corporation like Amazon.

[1614] The thing about that is the amount of time that that guy has to dedicate to his job has got to be just unfathomable.

[1615] I mean, I can't imagine what is involved in that guy's day -to -day activity.

[1616] And he seems ruthless as fuck and very hands -on.

[1617] So he probably doesn't have time to go to a visa.

[1618] If the average guy had anywhere close to $100 billion, though.

[1619] Oh, they just bail.

[1620] That's it.

[1621] You'd be doing all sorts of shit every day.

[1622] You'd be strip clubs.

[1623] Oh, yeah.

[1624] Cash out, too.

[1625] No more showing up at the office.

[1626] Cash out.

[1627] You wouldn't keep going?

[1628] Cash me out.

[1629] No. I'd do podcasts.

[1630] I keep showing up.

[1631] But I wouldn't have any ads.

[1632] I'd do podcasts with no ads.

[1633] No ads at all.

[1634] I'd be good.

[1635] That'd be nice.

[1636] I'm going to give you guys this shit for free.

[1637] I look at the overhead's expensive I need It's fucking building And air and it's an amazing building by the way Internet thank you Have you ever showed I mean have you like Displayed it or The gym you've got is fantastic Yeah I put some pictures of it up But yeah you know what man For me it's important Because I'm not busy like Jeff Bezos But I'm fucking busy I need to get all my shit done in one spot So when I can I come here early I bang out a workout in the morning I get my fucking sauna in float.

[1638] I like to float at night.

[1639] You got a sauna here?

[1640] I didn't know that.

[1641] I didn't know.

[1642] I knew you had a tank.

[1643] Yeah.

[1644] Yeah.

[1645] I got a sauna.

[1646] It's, for me, it's nice.

[1647] I can get everything done in one spot.

[1648] It actually saves me money just because of the amount of time that I have.

[1649] Yeah.

[1650] By the way, I did not say it at the outset, but I should say it.

[1651] That show you did in Boise.

[1652] Boise's in Idaho.

[1653] It's a beautiful place.

[1654] Don't tell you, that was fucking brilliant.

[1655] Thank you.

[1656] That show was fantastic.

[1657] It's fun.

[1658] People were talking about that for a lot of long time afterwards.

[1659] It was, and it was a great crowd.

[1660] That was a giant -ass place Yeah, yeah It was fun That was a really good time I mean for people listening It was a massive It's a Taco Bell Arena Which is yeah The best venue in the city It's a big venue And there was lines Just blocks and blocks And blocks before they opened the doors And even after they opened doors Because there were so many people Boise is a great town man I had heard how good it was That was my first time ever going there And I was blown away The people were super friendly It's gorgeous there Everything's clean I don't want to talk about it I don't want anybody to move in.

[1661] Oh, people are moving in.

[1662] I think we talked about that before the show started.

[1663] It was a Wall Street Journal wrote an article saying, it is some time ago, a couple of months ago or whatever, saying it's a fastest -growing city in the country.

[1664] Once you go there, you go, okay.

[1665] Like, if you brought your wife there and you said, look, we're going to move here, she'd be like, yeah.

[1666] We got a lot of people from California coming up there.

[1667] Of course.

[1668] I'll say that much, yeah.

[1669] And some good friends of mine who are living down on the beach right now, they're seriously looking at it.

[1670] They've been, you know, looking at property and thinking.

[1671] Do you ever see wolves?

[1672] Coyotes No wolves No well no we haven't seen him We got them But we haven't seen them But we've got We had a coyote in our neighborhood For quite a while He kind of became famous And they're they're good -looking coyotes You know the East Coast They're yeah They're like skinny and frail They look like wily coyote But out here or out west Up there they're well fed Well you have so much wildlife Yeah You know Idaho has an incredible Mule Deer population You have amazing elk populations Elk hunting's fantastic Yeah it's beautiful If I decide to go off the grid That's one of my prime spots I'm not telling nobody I'll tell you I'm not telling anybody else Let me know We'll pave the way I'm gonna hide up there Man it's so it's yeah It's a good spot And I got to stop talking about it too Because I get a lot of shit For saying nice things about it But I can't help it There are some unheralded spots In this country and I think that's most certainly one of them Yeah There's a gang of other ones too though You know and it's really the West in the west like these areas that just don't have the gigantic populations but have everything else gorgeous scenery and the mountain air and just god damn yeah the fishing is that's the other thing the fishing is oh my god i'm sure fly fishing and my oldest boy uh scooters is uh really gotten into fly fishing and he's got a great mindset for it right you know he just he's he's one of those guys he could be out there for a few hours not catch anything and still have a great time and really love you got other kids like my two younger kids you know they just they want to dynamite fish right they just want to get the fucking fish and get on with it move yeah and so they don't they're not going to fly fish anytime soon but scooters uh all about it and uh yeah not to not to bang on about that you guys have basically all the wild life activities or all the outdoor activities yeah yeah we got more river frontage more river mileage than uh any state except for alaska really yeah uh we got more and so the white water's fantastic uh it's great rafting up there the climbing's fantastic mountain biking i mean we jump on our our bike We can be up in the foothills in literally about seven minutes and then spend the afternoon and not see anybody.

[1673] I mean, it's crazy.

[1674] And we live right in the center of town, basically.

[1675] And it's, you know, so anyway, yeah, enough said about that.

[1676] Don't talk about that.

[1677] Don't talk about that.

[1678] Yeah.

[1679] Oh, I got a note from, I go from Mugsy, my youngest boy's teacher.

[1680] He's like seven years old.

[1681] And he's not like seven years.

[1682] He has seven years old.

[1683] It's like, yeah, he's approximately seven.

[1684] Somewhere of the range.

[1685] I don't know what I think.

[1686] Yeah.

[1687] Yeah, I try to hide his actual age for security reasons.

[1688] And so anyway, got a note from his teacher saying, hmm, he's having a little bit of trouble finishing his assignments on time.

[1689] And he just kind of wanted to check in with you to see how to motivate him.

[1690] And this was just yesterday.

[1691] And I got this message, and as did my absolutely fantastic wife.

[1692] And so we had a funny conversation about, you know, well, how do we respond to that?

[1693] I mean, like he's seven years old, right?

[1694] What is he doing?

[1695] Working for a living?

[1696] Yeah, exactly.

[1697] I mean, how do you motivate him to cut and paste faster or something?

[1698] But so I, you know, all I could think of was food, right?

[1699] Like my retriever, he, you know, he's food motivated, my dog.

[1700] And so I'm figuring, you know, Mugsy's the same way, you know.

[1701] You give him a cupcake and he'll finish that assignment.

[1702] So I had no idea.

[1703] I was really stymied, you know, because I think, I know we all, you know, our kids are, you know, like everybody else, you always view your kids.

[1704] Yeah, great kids are smart and everything.

[1705] But, you know, and I, so I give her, I give the teacher a lot of credit, you know, for being focused like that.

[1706] But at the same time, I step back and I look and I go, eh, it's okay.

[1707] If he wants to slack off a little bit.

[1708] He's seven.

[1709] He's seven, exactly.

[1710] Why do we have this obsession with getting kids to bus?

[1711] Like, I have a friend who's going to put their kid in Waldorf school, and we were talking about that.

[1712] And I guess they don't even teach them to read until the third grade.

[1713] And my wife was like, get the fuck out of here with that.

[1714] Because my youngest daughter's in the third grade, she reads great.

[1715] I mean, we read every night.

[1716] She reads perfectly.

[1717] I'm like, imagine if she hadn't even started learning how to read yet.

[1718] And that's what opens up everything else, right?

[1719] You can't delay that part of it.

[1720] But, yeah, so, yeah, I know we finish every evening with the kids have to read, right?

[1721] Get on, you know, finish.

[1722] She likes reading, too.

[1723] That's the other thing.

[1724] Like, I don't think it's a bad thing to have kids read, but what I do, what does.

[1725] You heard it here first, ladies gentlemen.

[1726] Controversial.

[1727] I'm taking a controversial stand on reading.

[1728] I support it.

[1729] Right there.

[1730] But what does concern me, though, is homework.

[1731] Because, you know, my 10 -year -old, sometimes she cries.

[1732] She's got so much homework.

[1733] And she's like, we're all day to school enough to do two hours of home.

[1734] It's just probably got activities too, right?

[1735] Sports activities, right?

[1736] And so that consumes time.

[1737] Gymnastics and a bunch of other shit, too.

[1738] It's these kids, they want these kids to grow up to become hugely successful.

[1739] And, you know, they push them so.

[1740] hard and everybody in the community is this when you're in these wealthy communities too that's the other things all these other people they all everybody's working so hard they want their kids to work so hard they're like jesus i mean i'm i'm in this weird spot where i'm an i'm an insider outsider it's because i'm in there and i kind of work hard you work hard yeah what do you do you kind of work hard it's not really work yeah none of it's i fucking scam this system good i got Three fake jobs I got three fake jobs UFC fake job stand -up comedy fake -ass job podcasting definitely a fake job I got three fake jobs Which is the toughest The toughest is making them all work together I don't know what's the toughest Probably stand -up Stand -up is the hardest to pull off How long did it take for like the set that you did up in Boise Which was fantastic How long did that run out?

[1741] I was laughing my ass up, so I don't...

[1742] I did an hour in, like an hour and 15 minutes, and that took me...

[1743] That was...

[1744] When I went up to Boise, it was a couple months before I filmed my special.

[1745] So that was the end of my run.

[1746] So what I do is I develop an act for like a year.

[1747] I tour with it for a year, and then at the end of that tour, I film a special.

[1748] Okay.

[1749] So it takes me two years to put it together where it's...

[1750] I fucking hammer that samurai, sword down, polish it, and it's live performance.

[1751] You know, it's fucking weird.

[1752] Sometimes one night a bit kills, the other night it comes out a little clunky, and you're never sure how to do it.

[1753] It's a constant thing of evolving it and moving it and changing it.

[1754] Do you ever just drop something?

[1755] Yeah, I mean, it's been working, and then you go and you think, oh, fuck it, I'm tired of that.

[1756] I don't want to do it anymore.

[1757] Yeah, yeah.

[1758] Yeah, you have to be enthusiastic.

[1759] Yeah, yeah.

[1760] So, like, in the beginning you stand up, you treat your jokes like their tools.

[1761] Like, oh, this is a Phillips head.

[1762] I need a Phillips head screwdriver.

[1763] I'll fit that in there.

[1764] and then after a while you realize like okay let me do what I like I'm going to talk about shit that I like and then you realize well the art form is trying to figure out how to make ideas funny and then it becomes if these ideas are funny to me I got to figure out a way to get them funny for other people but if they're not funny to me I'm not interested and then so what do you do you put something together and then you test it down on the kids at home or no no I'm kidding but you take it to like a small place right or a club I take it to clubs.

[1765] Yeah, I go to the Ice House and the Comedy Store and the Improv and I go to these local places in L .A. And I might do, like last night I did three shows.

[1766] And I'll do that all the time.

[1767] I'll do that.

[1768] I'll do four shows.

[1769] I'll do one show at the Improv, three at the Comedy Store.

[1770] I do that all the time.

[1771] How long are the shows each?

[1772] I mean, each sets about...

[1773] Half hour, you know, sometimes less, sometimes more.

[1774] Must be exhausting.

[1775] I mean, in a way.

[1776] It's not sort of...

[1777] Now, you talk about how it's a fake job, but, I mean, get up in front of people.

[1778] You don't know what the reaction is going to be.

[1779] That's the best job that I do, but also the most work.

[1780] But it's the best out of the fake jobs that I have.

[1781] That's the best fake job because it's the most fun.

[1782] Like, you know, the Boise thing was like 11 ,000 people.

[1783] If you crush in front of 11 ,000 people, that feeling is just, when you hear the roar, like you hit a punchline, you hear the roar of the crowd.

[1784] It's like, there's nothing like that.

[1785] There's nothing like that in the world.

[1786] That was, it was, again, anybody get a chance to go see a show.

[1787] Because this one was...

[1788] Or just go see my Netflix special.

[1789] You can see that thing.

[1790] Yeah, you got to pay more for Netflix now.

[1791] Yeah, what is it?

[1792] Like, 10 bucks?

[1793] Yeah, 17 % more, I think they're going to charge.

[1794] Is it really?

[1795] Yeah.

[1796] They can.

[1797] Yeah, they're good.

[1798] They have so much good shit, though.

[1799] Like, if you want to just waste your life and sit in front of the TV, it's crazy.

[1800] Like, when we were kids...

[1801] Maybe that's your passion.

[1802] So you get that universal basis of income, and my following my passion means I'm going to sit and watch every episode of Andy Griffith.

[1803] Just fart under the sheets.

[1804] And there's a lot of people doing it.

[1805] that right now.

[1806] I don't know if that's bad.

[1807] I mean, yes, it is, but then doesn't that open the door for the people that aren't going to be like that?

[1808] Like, look, less people out there really actually trying to get ahead.

[1809] I think the people that are going to try to succeed are always going to try to succeed.

[1810] I think that's true, and I think, so I think that's, maybe that's an argument against it also, which is that, like, I don't think it's going to unlock a whole treasure trove of innovators, right?

[1811] If suddenly you give people money and say, okay, you don't have to go pour coffee or flip burgers or, you know, clean up that road or whatever you're going to do for a living, you can follow your passion.

[1812] I don't think we're going to find some exponential increase in the number of people inventing the wheel.

[1813] I just think that it's just going to be a lot more people farting under the blankets or something.

[1814] I don't know.

[1815] You might be right, but the only good that I think could come out of it is less people or an abject poverty.

[1816] and less people are desperate, so it might reduce crime.

[1817] You might have lazy people, but you might also have less people that are inclined to steal things or do something that's illegal because their basic needs are taking care.

[1818] Yeah, that's a valid point.

[1819] I read something that's stunned me. It was on the plane flying to L .A. And I read an article about this strike, right?

[1820] The teacher strike.

[1821] Sorry, here in Los Angeles.

[1822] Big Strike, Los Angeles Unified School Authority or whatever it's called.

[1823] And it was just before they went on strike, but it talked about the problems that the school district has.

[1824] And I don't know whether this statistic is right.

[1825] I read it numerous times because I was so surprised by it.

[1826] 80 % of the families that use the Los Angeles public school system are at the poverty level or below.

[1827] And that means, of course, also that they rely on the free meal assistance, right, that the schools provide, which is kind of what the point of the story was.

[1828] Like, the schools are closed right now.

[1829] And so, you know, kids aren't getting a chance to eat because that's their only chance to get to eat.

[1830] Right.

[1831] But that number was stunning.

[1832] That's crazy.

[1833] Right.

[1834] So I meant to look into it and do more research to see whether the article was actually correct or not.

[1835] But, hey, it was in the newspaper, so it must be true, right?

[1836] I don't know about that.

[1837] Anyway, yeah.

[1838] That's a disturbing number.

[1839] a very disturbing number, but it also talked about how 12%, I think 12 % of all kids that go to high school here in Los Angeles, then go on to college, 12%.

[1840] And it was a similar number that never get out of high school.

[1841] And it's even worse than a place like New York City, public schools.

[1842] So I guess the point being is a public school system is.

[1843] It's dog shit.

[1844] Yeah.

[1845] And in the larger urban centers, it's got some real problems.

[1846] And I think a lot of those people that are really sad things, is a lot of those people that are at the poverty line or below work hard.

[1847] It's not a lack of motivation.

[1848] It's they just don't have opportunities.

[1849] They don't know what to do.

[1850] They're not doing it the right way.

[1851] They don't have guidance.

[1852] They never learned correctly when they were young.

[1853] Single parent.

[1854] They've worked in two or three jobs.

[1855] And no, but look, California's got all sorts of interesting issues.

[1856] I mean, there's, you know, talking to some folks, and they said a quarter of the nation's homeless people live here in California.

[1857] 25 % of the nation's homeless people live in California Smart place to live It's rain in the last few days But most of the time It's beautiful weather Hey, you can't complain about the weather anyway But that is crazy And it also talked about how a lot of those people They work But they're homeless, right?

[1858] The cost of housing And so you've got people that have a job But they're living in their cars Because they can't afford housing Whether it's in San Francisco Or Los Angeles In sanity Yeah.

[1859] That place is insanity.

[1860] So your point about the basic universal income, I take that point.

[1861] I see what that, you know, if it was possible to pay for it and, and again, kind of do this thing where you're monitoring this issue of motivation so you're not creating another follow -on generation of just complete slack asses, then I think that's a really valid point.

[1862] My concern would be people that didn't appreciate it and people that felt entitled.

[1863] Like they felt like someone owed them that money You know and you're going to have that I mean this is the biggest problem That people have with socialism and socialist attitudes That some of these kids that are coming up right now They look at what they call income inequality What they don't look at is effort inequality Like some people put in more fucking work It's not and are smarter They've figured their way through the game better than you have Yeah I never have doing it for 50 years or whatever They've been doing it for it's not I I couldn't agree with it more in the sense that I'd never begrudged anybody.

[1864] I never got pissed off with a rich person because they were rich, right?

[1865] I'm thinking, hey, that's good.

[1866] I'd like to be rich, right?

[1867] So I might want to talk and find out, you know, how'd you do it or how'd you do it?

[1868] And, yeah, it's a system sometimes, you know, set up so that once you have some money, you can get more money.

[1869] Well, of course the fuck it is.

[1870] Yeah.

[1871] I mean, if I have some money, I can invest that money and make more money, you know, if I'm smart about it.

[1872] If you do it right.

[1873] Yeah, if you do it right.

[1874] But I, absolutely.

[1875] I don't, you know, I don't begrudge the idea.

[1876] So that's part of it is also, I'm fairly steeped in the idea that, you know, we're living in a very unique country, right?

[1877] And I do worry sometimes that people don't, you know, even family, and I've got some friends and others who are just constantly pissing and moaning about this place.

[1878] And I'm thinking I spend almost all my life over in shitholes around the world.

[1879] And I, there is no other place I would rather be as a country.

[1880] And I know that's, you know, it's jingoistic or whatever, but honest to God, I still believe.

[1881] And if you go someplace and you talk to somebody in some fifth world, they will also, my experience has been any way.

[1882] Maybe you're listening and your experience is different, but that's the way it works, is that they'll think if I go to America, if I can get to America and I work hard, I can be successful.

[1883] And that, I think, is still true.

[1884] And that's what I worry about with entitlements and things that may kill that belief.

[1885] And you're right, income and inequality.

[1886] Yeah.

[1887] You know, that's, but it's, you're right.

[1888] You work harder.

[1889] Now, it doesn't always happen, but life's not supposed to be fair.

[1890] It's not, well, maybe it's supposed to be fair, but it's not fair.

[1891] So, sorry.

[1892] Life is just supposed to be life.

[1893] It's definitely not fair.

[1894] Yeah.

[1895] Yeah, it's, I completely see your point, and I agree with it.

[1896] I think that the real concern is that people don't appreciate already how great they have and what incredible opportunity they have.

[1897] And if we increase, we give them more, benefits with less effort than you're going to develop more of this attitude that we find disturbing, which is people that don't have an appreciation for literally the greatest experiment in self -government the world has ever known.

[1898] Yeah.

[1899] No, but I think also that there's parts of it that need to be looked at.

[1900] Like, there's an interesting study about college and graduation rates from college for disadvantaged folks.

[1901] You know, and that was, again, why they made it easier for, you know, tuition assistance, right?

[1902] So the idea was we want to expand the college ability for everybody, which is a great idea, right?

[1903] But what they found was they expanded the college opportunity for everybody, but over the past decade, decade and a half, fewer people from the lower income categories have been graduating, right?

[1904] So what you've done is you said, come on in.

[1905] It's like, you know, it's like special operators, right?

[1906] If you lower the bar, right?

[1907] And this is where I'm going to get in trouble probably.

[1908] I'll talk about the Marines and, you know, allowing women into combat elements.

[1909] I know, oh, my God.

[1910] Well, what do they do?

[1911] Well, you lower the bar.

[1912] You make it, okay, well, not enough of them could get through the course.

[1913] So I'm going to change the regulations, right?

[1914] And so if you change the regulations, what they found with the college was if you increase that pool of people going, it doesn't mean that they're going to be successful, right?

[1915] And now what you've done is you've kind of saddled them with some college debt, and they didn't graduate, so they're still earning what a high school graduate earns, and the system doesn't work.

[1916] And so I think sometimes just the idea of throwing money of the problem or it doesn't, it's not helpful if we don't think it through and then assess the results.

[1917] But yeah, that whole marine experiment.

[1918] I think they're catching it late in the chain, and I think it's good to give people the opportunity to succeed and to advance themselves, but if you really want to address it as a systemic problem, you've got to get to the root of it, which is these unbelievably horrible neighborhoods and these toxic environments of these kids are growing up and being abused and being scared and bullied and terrible piss poor education, you know, first through all the way up to high school.

[1919] that's, I mean, that's really where you have to address it.

[1920] I mean, addressing it just at the college level and giving them the opportunity to get into college and making it easier for them, it doesn't negate the terrible foundation that's been laid by their life.

[1921] Right.

[1922] Yeah.

[1923] And I think that's, we had this idea that college should be for everybody, right?

[1924] And that's, okay, that's great.

[1925] And I think that's where the, you know, people like Cortez and Bernie Sanders and others with their idea of free tuition.

[1926] Yes.

[1927] You know, they're thinking, okay, well, look at Europe.

[1928] you know there's some countries in europe have free tuition and hey it's you know it's relatively prosperous and there's nothing wrong with that but at the same time you know i i think we don't we don't assess the cost and the overall efficiency of an idea sometimes and so we just assume and you know open it up let everybody go and somehow this is going to work right to our advantage and the honest god answer is no you know i think somebody is better off sometimes you know going to you know, becoming a plumber, right?

[1929] You know, maybe, maybe.

[1930] It's an honorable living.

[1931] It's a great living.

[1932] Great living.

[1933] It's a great living.

[1934] One of the happiest guys I know is my plumber in Boise.

[1935] That guy is, I mean, he's got it knocked, right?

[1936] He's always out for hunting season.

[1937] And, you know, he'll say, look, I got a leak, right?

[1938] My ceiling's about the cave, and he goes, well, I'm going hunting.

[1939] I'm sorry.

[1940] He's just got, he's got his own schedule, right?

[1941] But he's got a great job.

[1942] And there's nothing wrong with that.

[1943] I think we developed this idea, sort of like homeownership.

[1944] Everybody should own a home.

[1945] Right.

[1946] Well, we saw what that took us, right?

[1947] When you lower the requirements, and suddenly we're all, you know, it's blowing up and we're fucked.

[1948] But anyway, what do I know?

[1949] What do I know?

[1950] What the hell do I know?

[1951] What do I know either?

[1952] But I see your points, and I know what you're saying.

[1953] I think that one thing that disturbs a shit out of me is student loans.

[1954] I mean, one of the worst ways to prepare a kid for the future is to saddle them down with a quarter million dollars worth of debt by the time they graduated from college.

[1955] Right.

[1956] No, absolutely.

[1957] And then they get a $50 ,000 a year job.

[1958] And they're like, what in the...

[1959] And they're doing well with a $50 ,000 a year job.

[1960] That's a great job to get out of college.

[1961] And you just look at the debt that you have, and you're like, what the fuck is this?

[1962] Yeah.

[1963] How am I going to pay this shit?

[1964] Yeah, no, I know.

[1965] And we have sold the students a bill of goods.

[1966] Yes.

[1967] And, you know, some of it, okay, some of it's on them, right?

[1968] Some of it, you know, the older students are the ones who are willing to take out this loan, and then suddenly they're using the money for something else.

[1969] It's, okay, fine.

[1970] There's individual responsibility.

[1971] But, no, I agree with it.

[1972] The student loan debt is a major issue.

[1973] We occasionally, the Capitol Hill talks about it, but not really.

[1974] I told my daughter, who's a fantastic person, I said, you know, the biggest gift you're getting is getting out of college without any debt.

[1975] Yeah.

[1976] That's, you know, so, you know, dad's not going to buy you your own waggonier.

[1977] You know, you get your own waggoner.

[1978] You have your tuition, and that's it.

[1979] That's the best I can tell.

[1980] That's a gigantic head start for kids.

[1981] Yeah.

[1982] I mean, it sounds so fucked up, but it's true.

[1983] To not be in debt is gigantic.

[1984] Look, they're giving kids credit cards and their frontal lobes aren't even developed yet.

[1985] They're doing all kinds of wacky.

[1986] They're like, well, I'll figure it out.

[1987] Like, you ain't figuring out shit.

[1988] You never figured out things up till now.

[1989] And the idea that you're going to get magically smarter over the next six months while you owe all this money is crazy.

[1990] Right.

[1991] Do you kids, do you, do your oldest have a phone yet for security purposes or?

[1992] What is this?

[1993] What do you got here, Jamie?

[1994] Holy shit.

[1995] Student loan clock.

[1996] Oh, my.

[1997] my god what is i can't even figure out what that is one point six trillion oh my god look at it go oh so what is this website that people can go to this college debt dot com i just typed in student loan clock holy shit look at that look at that that is an insane amount of money that's mesmerizing or so a second something like that is that what it is that's what i'm just kind of guessing off of what i'm seeing yeah oh that's an insane amount of money so you just made that number up you just don't just off of what i'm okay no i know look at crazy credit cards, auto loans.

[1998] Is that credit cards and auto loans for us, all of us Americans, or students?

[1999] Yeah.

[2000] And then...

[2001] Does it's all credit card debt?

[2002] What I just looked at, too, on another page that had a clock, this is the same number.

[2003] It's not including the interest on the federal loans.

[2004] That's crazy.

[2005] So you look at that and you think, okay, no wonder it's a popular idea of saying you've got to write down student loans, you've got to get free tuition going on and do all these things.

[2006] And I, again, you know, can the country pay for it?

[2007] I don't think so.

[2008] Should we be talking about it?

[2009] Absolutely.

[2010] Should we be looking for other alternatives and other options?

[2011] Yeah, but, you know, I think it's, it's, you know, we're not even willing to address the issue of Social Security and Medicare and, you know, and trying to deal with entitlements as they currently exist, which we know, you know, are going to bankrupt us at some point, right?

[2012] We know that.

[2013] It's not a mystery.

[2014] And we can't deal with that.

[2015] So how are we going to deal with these other issues?

[2016] Well, that's the question I had about a guy like Trump, who doesn't seem to like to pay attention to things.

[2017] How the hell is one person supposed to be in the director of all these various aspects of our world?

[2018] Yeah.

[2019] No, I've heard that, you know, from what was the name of the economist?

[2020] I can't remember his name.

[2021] But anyway, very, very smart guy, very smart economist who was talking about this and saying, this is what we expect of a president.

[2022] Think about all these things.

[2023] The president has to be cognizant of and supposed, capable of digesting a lot of information and making decisions on a very number of things.

[2024] And obviously, yeah, you delegate and you're fine.

[2025] But it is an interesting system.

[2026] And it is interesting how, you know, I mean, right now there's a lot of people that don't have faith in the current president to make, you know, some of your basic decisions.

[2027] Previous administration, there were a lot of people that was convinced he could, you know, understand anything, right?

[2028] I mean, he was, you know, capable of all of it.

[2029] So I don't think the job itself is too big, right?

[2030] I just think that the way that we go through the selection process has slowly over a period of time, you know, gone downhill and has kind of resulted in what we're doing right now.

[2031] Part of it's the bullshit primary process, you know, and the way that we do the initial selection.

[2032] There's, you know, there's a lot of things, I suppose.

[2033] Sure, the fact you have to be registered as a Democrat or Republican to vote in the primaries and all those things.

[2034] And then, you know, it's just everything.

[2035] Like, the whole thing's a big mess.

[2036] But on the flip side, here's what's crazy.

[2037] Trump doesn't seem to be aging.

[2038] Everybody else ages so hard.

[2039] Yeah.

[2040] They age so hard because they're paying attention to everything and they have real concern.

[2041] Well, yeah.

[2042] He seems to be just like a fucking water on a duck's back.

[2043] Well, you know, maybe he's going to outlive us all.

[2044] Maybe.

[2045] He's figured out how to avoid the stress, right?

[2046] seem any older.

[2047] Yeah.

[2048] Well, you remember what President Obama looked like when he finally walked out of office.

[2049] Or Bill Clinton.

[2050] I saw Bill Clinton not too long ago.

[2051] We'd been down in Little Rock.

[2052] You saw him?

[2053] Yeah, he was at an event that we were, it was a relatively small dinner.

[2054] Was he chasing pussy?

[2055] Don't lie.

[2056] Don't lie.

[2057] Yeah, I'm not saying he touched me inappropriately, but, you know, want to know where I got my burner phone.

[2058] I would love to be a fly on the room, a fly on the wall and a room with that guy.

[2059] But I will say this much about him.

[2060] He was, we started talking.

[2061] I thought I was just going to go up and shake his hand and say, you know, hey, Ms. President, you know, good to see you.

[2062] Because I always liked the guy, right?

[2063] And, okay, you know, aside from his obvious issue and the problem he had, in terms of his ability to govern, and the fact that he's a smart son of a bitch, and he, I just found him, you know, capable of the job, right?

[2064] Just like I did with President Bush and, you know, there were good aspects of President Obama.

[2065] I don't have a dog in the hunt, right?

[2066] I mean, I'd rather see the results than the person, but anyway, talking to President Clinton, we started talking, and he immediately went to an old agency operation, an old thing that had happened during his time when he was president, to talk about it, right?

[2067] And you could tell that he, I mean, he had retained a tremendous amount of information, right?

[2068] And we were talking, and we ended up talking for 15 minutes or so just kind of about this particular incident.

[2069] And he was kind of curious and he wanted to, you know, and he wanted to recount kind of some of the thought process that they were, you know, going through.

[2070] And I found it really interesting in the sense that that was a, it was a surprisingly deep conversation, right, for some, and he's curious.

[2071] And I always thought that was the most important quality for anybody who gets in that job is he's, they have to be curious, right?

[2072] They have to be inquisitive.

[2073] And, you know, on the scale of, you know, presidents, where does the current president, you know, exist in the curiosity scale, I don't know, but I think that's probably not his strong suit.

[2074] So maybe that's one of the reasons why he's not aging is because he's, you know, he's not asking that fourth or fifth question that lead you to the point where you go, oh, that's a pretty fucked up situation.

[2075] Now we've got to worry about that one.

[2076] Yeah.

[2077] So maybe it is, you know, water off the back and he's figured out a way to deal with stress.

[2078] Well, on the plus side, he seems to be making business owners happy.

[2079] He seems, at least ones that aren't affected by the sanctions against China because there's like steel manufacturing and a lot of other companies that are very upset by yeah yeah well I think it's it's the regulations that that they've done that they haven't really touted in terms of deregulating some of the things I mean because like the previous administration you know a lot of good points but some bad points one of the bad points was sort of the hamstring of industry through overregulation yes on everything right and so lifting some of that on you know there's this, you know, you can argue whether, you know, you want bigger government or less government, but you can't argue with the fact that it did unleash, you know, industry and business more than the previous administration.

[2080] So that's a good thing.

[2081] But, you know, look at all the other concerns.

[2082] I mean, now we're talking about, you know, a global slowdown, right?

[2083] Because, you know, China's numbers are looking soft.

[2084] Germany's looking soft.

[2085] What does that mean?

[2086] Everybody's worried about Brexit.

[2087] So there's a lot of things for people to be focused on, you know, and I worry sometimes that all we do here in the States is kind of like chase the next, you know, shiny ball of tinfoil because we're all a bunch of raccoons, right?

[2088] We have such a short attention span for everything.

[2089] And, yeah, anyway, what am I saying?

[2090] I don't know.

[2091] Sorry, everybody's like, he was talking about attention span.

[2092] The last thing that I definitely wanted to talk to you about is one of the things that Trump brought up recently is the JFK case.

[2093] Oh, yeah.

[2094] And releasing some of the files, and they wanted to redact the...

[2095] information that pertain to the people that were still alive.

[2096] Now, I want to know what, I don't know what you can say, but what do you think about the JFK case?

[2097] Do you think that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone?

[2098] I can see of all the, of all the sort of incidents, of all that, I don't mean minimize it by, or minimize it by calling it an incident, but of all those situations, the Kennedy assassination and Martin Luther King's assassination.

[2099] Those are the two that I understand more than anything else why they've lingered and why people don't believe the shit that they've seen and why they have concerns about it.

[2100] Martin Luther King, more than Kennedy, I believe that there was something there that we still don't understand in terms of who else was responsible and who organized that and who assisted in that.

[2101] I just think of those two, that's the one I've got bigger questions.

[2102] on.

[2103] The Kennedy assassination, I think that Oswald pulled the trigger.

[2104] I think in his mind, the reason he was doing it was for the greater good of communism and to boost his image with the Soviets and with the Cuban regime.

[2105] Do I think that he had assistance?

[2106] I don't, you know, I don't think so, but I could be swayed from that with better evidence than I've seen, but I understand why people are so delgan on it, right?

[2107] Because, I mean, look, it was a massive event, right?

[2108] It was a massive event.

[2109] But Oswald had sufficient training.

[2110] You did not have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out.

[2111] It was a different era, and we don't understand it in today's terms.

[2112] But when you get right in that position and look out that window and look at the shot that was taken and, you know, what was involved.

[2113] involved in that?

[2114] I was not a, you know, you've shot, you know, this sounds terrible, but, you know, anybody who's hunted, you know, has taken a more difficult shot than that.

[2115] So that part of it and his motivation and his past ties to the Soviets, do I think the Soviets were pulling the trigger on it?

[2116] Do I think the mafia were pulling the trigger on it?

[2117] I, I haven't seen anything that convinces me that that was the case.

[2118] I think that Oswald felt like he was doing it for them or he was going to prove himself in that regard.

[2119] But, Again, I understand why people had dug in.

[2120] The MLK one, Martin Luther King, I just, I think that, I don't think he acted alone.

[2121] What makes you think that?

[2122] I think that, look, he was a loser, a two -bit criminal, right, who was constantly getting picked up for the shit that he was doing and ending up in jail.

[2123] He was a mess, right?

[2124] There was nothing clever about him.

[2125] and then leading up to the assassination, he cleaned up, right, his act.

[2126] Suddenly he went from looking like a two -bit criminal to a college professor, basically, and he had cash.

[2127] He was able to purchase a vehicle, and he kind of went off the grid for a while.

[2128] He went on to this drive, right, and sort of stayed off the grid.

[2129] And he behaved in a way that he hadn't up until, you know, months before this thing took place.

[2130] and then he ended up in Europe, you know, and I just, something tells me that he had assistance in some fashion.

[2131] I don't know who, right, or whatever, but I just, that's the one that more than any others that I've looked at, you know, makes me step back and go, now, we don't know the whole story here.

[2132] The Kennedy thing, I, you know, again, maybe there's something out there that we just haven't turned over.

[2133] It's always a possibility.

[2134] But, yeah, MLK, I think, is, that's the one that's most disturbing.

[2135] That's interesting.

[2136] I don't know enough about the MLK murder.

[2137] I need to go look into that now, especially if you think that something was going on.

[2138] Look at his behavior.

[2139] What the hell was his name again?

[2140] James Earl Ray.

[2141] James Earl Ray.

[2142] And I've talked to his brother.

[2143] I've interviewed his brother.

[2144] For what?

[2145] For a show, a series where we did a kind of.

[2146] investigative look into this.

[2147] And there is, if you, if all you do when you're looking at this is to look at Ray's behavior in that year leading up to the assassination, that's the, that's the interesting for me. That's the most interesting part.

[2148] I mean, you put it in context with everything he did up until that point, which was he was basically, again, just a too big criminal who couldn't stay out of jail.

[2149] And then you get this, and you get this change in behavior and this change in appearance and this, you know, sudden ability to, you know, be something that he wasn't up until that point.

[2150] I guess everybody can change.

[2151] But that was, that was the most striking part for me. There's no obvious source of income.

[2152] No, no, just, you know, just, again, just a penny any criminal, basically.

[2153] And there was plenty of information.

[2154] It wasn't like he couldn't have gathered if you say, well, no, he acted on his own.

[2155] Well, okay, yeah, was there information, yes, leading right up to the day before.

[2156] There was talk about, you know, there were news reports showing King at the Lorraine Motel and, you know, coming in and out of the room, you know, that he was staying in.

[2157] And so it wasn't as if, you know, you couldn't gather that information on your own, you know, but it was, again, it was that behavior leading up to it.

[2158] And I'm not a conspiracy guy at all, right?

[2159] I've seen, you know, too much shit to, you know, to think that, you know, every conspiracy is holding water.

[2160] So, but this one was disturbing in that regard for what that's worth.

[2161] All right.

[2162] I'm going to do it now.

[2163] Yeah.

[2164] You should look into it.

[2165] And we'll talk about it next time.

[2166] See what you think.

[2167] Because I'd really be interested.

[2168] I think, I don't think we're going to, this show that we're going to get ready to do here, start filming in next month, is not going to be looking into things like that.

[2169] What is it called?

[2170] It's going to be called Black Files.

[2171] They may change the number or the name just before we go on the air.

[2172] But, you know, I really enjoyed the shows that I did in the past America, they classified with the, they're looking into conspiracies.

[2173] I really enjoyed it, right?

[2174] I really, really thought it was fascinating.

[2175] And I get why people feel that way.

[2176] Yeah.

[2177] Kennedy, for sure.

[2178] Especially when they're on the outside.

[2179] The Kennedy one to me, the bullet is the most disturbing thing.

[2180] Yeah.

[2181] That bullet that just showed up on Connolly's gurney.

[2182] Oh, look, we found.

[2183] Yeah, we found.

[2184] Yeah, we found this bullet, yeah.

[2185] Yeah, and it's not distorted and supposedly went through two people and shattered bone.

[2186] The magic bullet, the magic bullet.

[2187] Yeah, it's just, I don't buy it.

[2188] I don't think that that bullet came from there.

[2189] That's probably the most, of all things.

[2190] Because we looked at the grassy knoll issue and the possibility of spot getting other people from the other side.

[2191] The fuck out of here with that bullet.

[2192] That bullet drives me crazy.

[2193] Not only that, there's more pieces of the bullet fragments in Connolly's body.

[2194] When you look at the, look at the x -rays of Connolly's body that show bullet fragments.

[2195] There's little pieces.

[2196] They found little tiny pieces of metal in his body from the bullet fragments.

[2197] But you don't see that missing from the bullet.

[2198] It's bullshit.

[2199] Yeah, the bullet thing is.

[2200] And, and, you know, again, there's elements of it that you look at, but collectively, just, you know, and again, maybe there's something else out there.

[2201] Maybe there is.

[2202] And we just haven't uncovered it, or maybe this will, you know, prompt, you know, some additional information.

[2203] Who knows?

[2204] But, yeah, anyway, it's fascinating shit.

[2205] But I do get it because it was such a seminal moment, right?

[2206] And nobody wants to think that something that bad, that horrific.

[2207] And that's something that could sort of show.

[2208] shatter the country in that fashion could be done by one, one guy, like Lee Harvey Oswald.

[2209] Or John Hinckley.

[2210] Or John Hinckley, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[2211] Didn't they just let him out?

[2212] Yeah.

[2213] Not for good, right?

[2214] Not for good.

[2215] I think it was on a release program of some sort.

[2216] Get the fuck out of here for life.

[2217] Get the fuck out of here forever.

[2218] I don't care how well you've been behaving for 20 years while you've been locked up in a mental assignment.

[2219] You shot the president.

[2220] Get the fuck out of here.

[2221] What is wrong with people?

[2222] yeah it's it's that old idea oh he's done his time he's done his time yeah he's been rehabilitated yeah rehabilitated and uh and that's always that argument is prison for incarceration or is it for rehabilitation it's for us yeah it's for us you shot the president get in the cage hey can i say one thing before we finish up uh this is sort of a uh a bump for buddy mine who's in boise just wrote his first book um if anybody's out there and they're looking for a book to read.

[2223] His name is Andrew Cousins.

[2224] And he's a former operator who, you know, knows his shit.

[2225] And it's his first attempt at a fiction novel.

[2226] It's called A Failed State.

[2227] And it's set in Afghanistan and also here in the U .S. and a couple other places, Turkey and Germany and elsewhere.

[2228] Interesting read.

[2229] A lot of technical information in there.

[2230] It's a fiction novel, but he's dumped a lot of information in there, so it's clear he knows what he's talking about.

[2231] But it's worth a peek if anybody's looking for something to read.

[2232] Look at you.

[2233] Looking out for a buddy.

[2234] Yeah, he's a good guy.

[2235] Well, hey, brother, great to see you again.

[2236] Thank you very much.

[2237] Thank you very much.

[2238] Good luck with your show.

[2239] I appreciate that, man. Come on again after it's over.

[2240] I'll do it.

[2241] Take care.

[2242] Bye, everybody.

[2243] Thank you.

[2244] That was great.