My Favorite Murder Presents: The True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast - "Pivoting During a Pandemic, Inclusive Luxury Beauty Brands, & Love Your Hair with Sabrina Rowe"

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] You guys were so excited to announce the network premiere episode of the newest member of the Exactly Right family, The True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast.

[2] The True Beauty Brooklyn podcast is hosted by estheticians and entrepreneurs Alex Shapiro and Elizabeth Taylor.

[3] And they're joined by experts, friends, and community members to answer listener questions about beauty and skin care that each one of us can relate to.

[4] Alex and Elizabeth, they also host these segments inspired by their diverse clientele and share stories about living in a multicultural world.

[5] And you can also check out their past full library of past episodes with tons of incredible guests, discussions, and advice.

[6] So enjoy the Exactly Right Network premiere episode right here and then head on over to the True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast for a brand new episode out today.

[7] And you can subscribe on Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.

[8] If you like what you hear today, please write them a review.

[9] And now enjoy the True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast.

[10] Goodbye.

[11] Welcome to the True Beauty Brooklyn Podcasts.

[12] I'm Elizabeth Taylor.

[13] And I'm Alex Shapiro.

[14] We're estheticians in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and we work with really incredible, diverse, ambitious, and driven people who are killing it in life.

[15] They deserve to be celebrated.

[16] And on this podcast, we're going to be sharing their stories with you.

[17] Yeah.

[18] And in between our interview episodes, we'll have Beauty School, where it's just the two of us, maybe some guest stars, and we'll be chatting about beauty, life, weird shit about being in your 30s, and learning more about one another because that's what makes us more similar than different.

[19] Also, we're a lot of fun, and we have a super multicultural community, and we kind of think that you might too.

[20] So why not talk about all things beauty under one black and Jewish roof?

[21] Plus, we'll be answering listener questions, so be sure to write us at True Beauty Broken Podcast at gmail .com.

[22] All right, guys, let's jump into the show.

[23] Hey guys.

[24] Hey.

[25] It's Elizabeth.

[26] And Alex.

[27] Welcome to the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast.

[28] Welcome.

[29] So, this is our very first episode on our brand new network.

[30] So excited.

[31] Super exciting.

[32] We're on the exactly right network, guys.

[33] But you know that because you're listening now.

[34] I sent a British for a second.

[35] I know.

[36] I slipped into my weird British accent.

[37] It's weird.

[38] But I liked it.

[39] But it wasn't full.

[40] I was like that.

[41] I don't know where it came from.

[42] Okay, so we're obviously very excited.

[43] Maybe a little nervous.

[44] I think so.

[45] We were just quote unquote warming up, which was just a screaming at each other and weird British accents and laughing.

[46] And that's how I just slipped out now.

[47] Queen songs.

[48] So that tells you everything you should know about us.

[49] I guess this is a little representation of like what you'll be hearing.

[50] Yes, 100%.

[51] This is 100 % us real.

[52] But we do get serious at times.

[53] Yes.

[54] And we want us to just jump on here and introduce ourselves to you and tell you who is, I guess, like on the other side of these voices that you're going to hopefully be listening to once a week now.

[55] You better guys, goddamn listen.

[56] No, but Alex and I are estheticians.

[57] We work in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and we love skin care and we're obsessed with eyebrows.

[58] But more importantly, we just, you know, are so lucky to work and live in this super.

[59] diverse incredible community and we've made friends with like just the baddest bitches that you could imagine honestly from all different walks of life and all different backgrounds and it came a point where we were just like we need to let the people know about all of our friends I think being an aesthetician is a really cool job for many ways I've been in this industry since I'm 19 it's been a long time but you just get to know people so well totally yeah so well and I've had clients tell me oh my like they told me something and And they're like, I haven't even told my therapist that, you know.

[60] You really get to be really intimate with people.

[61] For sure.

[62] And we get to learn their whole life stories sometimes.

[63] But we're like 30 minutes.

[64] Yeah, yeah, somehow.

[65] Yeah.

[66] And then, yeah, we were like, you need to.

[67] Record it all.

[68] Okay, so the cool thing about Alex, for sure.

[69] And Alex, well, we specialize here in intimate waxing for women, but like, you probably heard in the promo.

[70] I wasn't lying when I say Alex is the best waxer at this side of the East River.

[71] Like, people cross bridges to come over here to.

[72] hang with her and to get wax with her.

[73] But because we look at a lot of vaginas for a living every day, many times a day, we become really good at just becoming, like, really fast friends with people.

[74] And people, as Alex said, like, open up really fast to us.

[75] And I joke with girls, like, yo, I'm probably the closest thing that's come to your vagina besides, like, your gynaecologist and your boyfriend.

[76] So there's no worries that, like, you're telling me everything about your life right now in, like, the first 20 minutes of meeting.

[77] It's very my life so nice I really have.

[78] I think he's got a lot of friends a lot of really close friends.

[79] Yeah, some of my clients have become very good friends of mine.

[80] Oh, totally.

[81] Once you switch over from being green friends on the sidelines to blue friends on the iPhone we made the flip -plop.

[82] I've got to go first time I was like, what are you talking about?

[83] Oh, you know what I'm talking about.

[84] Y 'all know what I'm talking about, the blue bubbles.

[85] It's true.

[86] It's true.

[87] And I hope that we get to bring some of what we bring to the treatment room onto the podcast.

[88] So even if you don't live in New York and you can't come get a beauty treatment?

[89] Yeah.

[90] You can come hang with us once a week.

[91] So we will gush all about everything that we know about skin care.

[92] I think the other really cool thing about Alex is that I'm black.

[93] Alex is Jewish and white.

[94] Same Zee is different.

[95] No, you can be a black Jew.

[96] You be a black Jew.

[97] Yeah.

[98] So we come from two different spectrums in terms of melanin, in terms of sensitivities.

[99] And so we can really teach about a lot of different skin conditions, skin treatments, about a lot of different therapies, things you can do at home things you can do with your therapists we can hopefully like help you find a beauty therapist that's one of our goals is to build like a dope beauty community of just like bad bitches out to help each other dream control that is what we've done yeah well we want to even we want to even big world wide worldwide bad fishes worldwide unite yeah yes I'd love that bad bitches worldwide unite less cheerleading so what else what else can we tell you about us?

[100] I'm a native New Yorker.

[101] I think I have to say that because native New Yorkers love to do that.

[102] That's true, yes.

[103] Am I a native New Yorker, too?

[104] No. Well, yeah.

[105] Okay, so I've been in New York City for almost 20 years now.

[106] My grandparents, my great -grandparents, and my parents are all from New York.

[107] I was raised in U .S. in New York.

[108] That wasn't by choice, right?

[109] I would have stayed here if it was my choice.

[110] I came back as soon as it possible, but Alex is pretty much here from day one.

[111] Yeah.

[112] She escapes for a little bit to Long Island, but she came back.

[113] And people are always like, oh, you don't sound like you're from Long Island.

[114] I'm like, what is, what are people's ideas of what you're supposed to sound like?

[115] We'll get a couple of tequila's back in you.

[116] And you can start hearing it come out.

[117] Her stepmom for, let's just say it right now, has the greatest, the greatest queen's accent that you could ever imagine.

[118] So just imagine how Alex is like, oh my God, when it starts to come out, I love it.

[119] It's so good.

[120] it's so good I don't even realize it but anyway I'm really excited for all of you to join us and get to listen to all of the journeys that we talk about because we really do a lot of our guests I mean we just have them start from the beginning of their lives and it's so interesting to see how people's lives play out and I hope that you get to learn a lot and get some advice maybe you need advice and you can get it from some of our guests I don't know if I can like provide that I mean we can give you skincare advice for sure.

[121] We can give you brow advice for sure.

[122] Relationship advice, maybe.

[123] Career advice, working on it.

[124] Yeah.

[125] Working on that.

[126] But we can, we'll do what we can for sure.

[127] And then the things that we can't teach you, we bring in incredible guest experts.

[128] So we have, like we were saying before, so many of like the smartest, most incredible people that we're so lucky to call our friends now.

[129] But, you know, instead of just us pitching and moaning about things, we're like, well, let's bring on somebody who actually knows and can tell us why things are instead of us just, you know, making shit up and getting more and more mad, finding solutions to problems, hopefully, which is what we really try to get to the bottom of.

[130] And my personal favorite part of our podcast or our segments, I know that's like your favorite too, I think.

[131] For sure.

[132] The segments is like what made me want to do the podcast.

[133] I was like, we need to talk more about just differences and similarities and hilarities that come within being in a multicultural world and being in multicultural relationships and just things.

[134] that you don't know until you get to know one another, right?

[135] Until you become true friends with one another, like...

[136] Totally.

[137] It's one thing when it's like, oh, my friends, you know, so -and -so from class, but it's another thing when they invite you into your home and, like, you see, you know, different smells and different traditions and different, you know, all those cool things, but also, like, let's explain our segment.

[138] Okay, so...

[139] I love them.

[140] Okay.

[141] Because I was just thinking about this morning, because to me it just, I love it.

[142] Okay.

[143] So one of my favorite segments is called milk with your dinner.

[144] And milk with your dinner comes because when I was a kid growing up and probably you guys too, maybe you didn't notice it, maybe you didn't.

[145] But in all of the movies in the 80s, like these white families would have glasses of milk on their dinner table.

[146] And I just never really, like we didn't grow up drinking milk out of like a whole glass of milk period, let alone with your dinner.

[147] Like that was just never something that would ever come across my, us, our household period.

[148] It just didn't happen.

[149] And it was this thing that I didn't, do you know, like watching movies, I knew that things that happened that was reflected back to me. Some things were real.

[150] Some things were false.

[151] Like some things I saw within the black community, like were true and other things were just made up.

[152] And so this milk with your dinner thing, I thought was one of those things that was made up.

[153] It was just like put there to be like a wholesome family.

[154] And then when I started dating my partner who's a white man, his ass loves milk.

[155] He loves dinner all the time.

[156] I'm not necessarily with his dinner with his dessert, like in the middle of the day.

[157] Like dessert, I kind of understand.

[158] Bitch, I would never drink a whole glass of milk, period.

[159] No, never.

[160] I don't think I ever have.

[161] No. And so the more I would ask my friends who were also in multicultural relationships, specifically about this one thing, was milk.

[162] Does your white man drink milk?

[163] I found more often than not, they would laugh and be like, bitch, what is with white guys and milk?

[164] It's a thing.

[165] It's a thing.

[166] And so it just became this funny thing that we'd laugh about, but I would think what else is out there that we can just like laugh about about differences?

[167] Turns out there's lots of things.

[168] There's so many things.

[169] Like, what hair?

[170] If you're a woman of color, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

[171] Black ladies, put your hands in the air.

[172] We don't leave the house with our hair wet.

[173] Never, not once.

[174] We just don't do it.

[175] Growing up in a small town, we were the only black family and I would always see like white girls at school with wet hair.

[176] And I was just like, this is so fucking fascinating.

[177] What is that like?

[178] And then what do you do?

[179] It just drives like that.

[180] So super silly, but just ways I think that we can talk and laugh and get to know each other and become more, you know, working more towards a more perfect union.

[181] I wanted to be like, so we can really like learn about each other.

[182] Nothing to learn about going to school with your hair wet.

[183] You're just going to school with your hair wet because you're lazy or you were late.

[184] But you could.

[185] That was the difference just that you could.

[186] Yeah.

[187] Do you know?

[188] That's a problem.

[189] I wish there was like some good background I could tell you.

[190] Like when you told me about how you care for your hair, there's like a science to all of it.

[191] Oh, you mean white supremacy?

[192] Yes.

[193] But even when you were like, yes, I sleep with the bonnet because it doesn't get my hair messed up.

[194] Yes.

[195] Why do you go to school with your hair wet?

[196] I have no reason.

[197] Because your mama stopped sleeping with the bonnet.

[198] That was the problem.

[199] Y 'all stopped going to bed with your hair and curlers and the bonnet.

[200] Yeah.

[201] Do you see guys we learned about bonnets together?

[202] I'm not going to lie.

[203] I've come to work once or twice with my hair wet.

[204] And I'm like, don't judge me. I'm just running like, I'm sorry.

[205] No, but it's fun.

[206] And we learn a ton, which is so great.

[207] We do.

[208] Our other segment, which I really love, is I didn't know then, but I'm older now.

[209] Yes.

[210] And it's when we discuss things that we did when we were younger.

[211] Sometimes it's just something we used to do like a couple years ago.

[212] Exactly.

[213] Sometimes it was last week.

[214] Yeah.

[215] But mostly I know for myself, it's like things I did as a preteen or like an early teen.

[216] Like either fashions or 20s, yeah, either like weird fashion decisions or just like dumb shit I would do.

[217] Yes.

[218] Or just terrible life decisions, like letting that man tickle your feet through the window.

[219] Yeah, that'd happen.

[220] In community college when he told you that happened.

[221] He was a master's student.

[222] That happened.

[223] There's weird people out there.

[224] You know?

[225] But you're just young sometimes and you don't know.

[226] No, but then we had a great guest on who told us about the time that the man asked her to stand on his chest and came to find.

[227] out that that was some sort of fetish.

[228] What was it?

[229] Like stomping, crushing, something.

[230] It's called stomping.

[231] You see, so guys, the more we share, the more we learn.

[232] All of just had fetish guy.

[233] Our friends, Kirsten had stomping fetish guy.

[234] Now y 'all bitches know, don't let men touch you in weird places.

[235] Also, that was the weird early aughts.

[236] Maybe the young people know better now.

[237] It's a weird time in life, and the internet wasn't the same.

[238] I would have known, maybe more things.

[239] Your Nokia fucking phone, like didn't have enough, like, minutes.

[240] No, no minutes.

[241] Yeah, you can even call nobody girl.

[242] Nights and weekends only.

[243] So what else?

[244] Okay, so this episode that we're sharing with you guys today is really special because another fun thing that we do monthly is we have our beauty guru bestie Sabrina Roe Holdsworth sat by.

[245] Sabs is an incredible celebrity hair and makeup artist.

[246] She did your and my makeup for the artwork that y 'all are looking at and her hair.

[247] And she works with all of your faves, faves.

[248] She works with Phoebe Robinson.

[249] She works with Alana Glacier.

[250] She works with fucking, all your faves, faves, everybody.

[251] So we're so lucky that we get to call her a good friend.

[252] And she comes to answer your guys' listener letters, all of your beauty questions, your skincare questions, you hear questions, you nail questions, whatever you guys got.

[253] We can answer it.

[254] Saabs can answer it.

[255] Yes.

[256] And Saabs also happens to be the owner of Natural by Saabs, an incredible hair and skincare line.

[257] So today, you guys are going to learn about Natural by Saabs.

[258] Yay.

[259] We're not any of you are a little friend.

[260] I love it.

[261] It's a great product line.

[262] It's an incredible product line.

[263] It's for all types of curly hair.

[264] So I have, you know, kinky, curly African -American hair, black hair.

[265] Alex has wavy, beautiful blonde hair.

[266] That's really nice.

[267] My hair is really dried out from bleaching it.

[268] And it's more straight than anything.

[269] When I'm lucky, it gets a wave.

[270] No, it's wavy and gorgeous.

[271] But we both have products that sabs, natural by sabs.

[272] we can use in our hair.

[273] We both use the shampoo.

[274] I don't think that's really been done where like a line truly can be used on anyone.

[275] Yes, for sure.

[276] My boyfriend loves his soap on a rope, as he called it, his shampoo bar.

[277] But she just makes incredible hair and skin care products.

[278] And so we thought that we'd have Sabs on today speaking from a business standpoint as an entrepreneur, introduce her to you guys.

[279] And then you get to hear, I guess, like the trifecta of who you can expect on the show.

[280] For sure, at least once a month, the three of us, always the two of us.

[281] Sometimes you have some other guests to us, too.

[282] So that's it.

[283] It gets real fun.

[284] So, you guys, thank you so much for tuning in to our very first episode on the Exactly Right Network.

[285] I'm getting really emotional right now.

[286] I'm going to try not to cry.

[287] I'm really excited.

[288] And, yeah, we're just excited to be here.

[289] So listen to our episode.

[290] Thanks for listening.

[291] We'll see you guys in the outro.

[292] And we love you guys.

[293] Be on the flip side.

[294] Bye.

[295] So, Sab.

[296] So you are our inaugural guests for the first episode, Eva, Eva, Eva, of the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast.

[297] And we were just talking about how we just, you know, I was like, can I just come over?

[298] You can do my hair and tell me about your life.

[299] And now look where we are.

[300] I know.

[301] I love that that was the first episode.

[302] I know.

[303] And now it's a new first.

[304] I know.

[305] I'm really excited.

[306] I was really happy that you guys asked me to do it.

[307] obviously you have had access to some incredible people but I'm better than them because I'm way fucking cooler no it means a lot and you know you could have asked anyone and I appreciate that you guys asked me oh we love you and also I think that we have a really I don't know I think the people's like to hear us all together my sister tells me that they're her favorite episodes when the three of us are together because we're fun because we're really fun together probably because we're really friends exactly exactly so it's very easy to listen to us fuck around it's true it's true it's literally what we do is fuck around okay so why don't we start at the beginning even though you told our listeners before about the beginning of your journey i feel like let's um we're introducing you the first time i guess is like this fantastic celebrity hair and makeup artist and now you still are those things but you have your incredible line and you're starting a different i know i'm now a founder I don't know.

[308] It's so interesting because the brand, the beauty brand is under my existing business.

[309] And I did that on purpose because I started a new business during a pandemic like a psychopath.

[310] You know, eventually someday it'll have to be its own entity.

[311] But for now, it is under my existing business.

[312] And, you know, I was like, how am I going to put this on Instagram, like, you know, when you're like describing yourself, I hate doing that part.

[313] Obviously, I don't like the heat.

[314] I don't want that smoke.

[315] I don't love that kind of attention.

[316] But at the end of the day, these are my formulations.

[317] This is my baby.

[318] It means the world to me. I know that I'm super privileged to have been able to do this in a time where so many people lost their jobs.

[319] And I was like, I'm going to use all the money that I have.

[320] and turn them into little black bottles of product.

[321] Because again, I'm a psychopath.

[322] So I was talking to a friend and she was like, you're, you know, you founded a brand.

[323] I was like, oh, that's, that is what I did.

[324] I founded a brand.

[325] It's a big deal.

[326] Yeah.

[327] I don't know if I have myself listed as founder or mother or what it is.

[328] Mother.

[329] It is a big deal.

[330] Well, that's what I wanted to put mother because everybody's, I was like, oh, you're happily married.

[331] Where are the kids?

[332] And I'm like, that's why I'm happily married.

[333] Same right.

[334] Don't try to sell me your life.

[335] Can I say something real fast about the Natural by Saab's nourishing conditioner?

[336] So remember, I bought a second one off of you, and then I moved.

[337] Yes, like crack.

[338] And I've been living in limbo, and I had used the very last of my old bottle, and I didn't know where I had packed the new one.

[339] And I just didn't wash my hair.

[340] for many days until I found it because I didn't want to use anything else I've gotten very attached to it and when I found it two days ago the way that I yelled out Kyle was like what happened I'm like just hair conditioner that's great and I'm glad that you loved as much as I do it certainly loves your tresses because the ends of your hair are looking not ratchet at all it's it's honestly not ratchet it no also we did good color like we didn't overlaught lap.

[341] Like, I just think it's one step in the right direction of your hair journey.

[342] I go to this gal who's just great with color.

[343] It's just like the greatest colors.

[344] It's just great.

[345] But I have to give credit to all of the beautiful, incredible colors that train me and let me watch them and, you know, listen to my, you know, million questions because I'm so painfully annoying when I'm trying to learn something.

[346] Okay, so Sab, so take us from, take us to the beginning.

[347] Take us to start from the beginning and we'll work your way, we'll work our way forward.

[348] I know, like we were saying before, like you did this once before, but why don't we just, they kind of do it one more time for the people who maybe didn't listen to episode one, but then take us in the middle of your journey.

[349] Let's take a...

[350] I'm going to give you a short version because I'm like, y 'all can listen to that episode.

[351] Oh, stop.

[352] So how are we going to take up your time?

[353] No, no, no. I mean, there's plenty to talk about, like, are you kidding me?

[354] We could just talk about conditioner for an hour.

[355] We don't need to talk about, like, my origin.

[356] You talk about how you want to, and we can direct them.

[357] We can direct the listener to the first episode.

[358] We'll direct them to the first episode, but it doesn't matter.

[359] You are being broadcast.

[360] Yeah, because that was such an organic moment.

[361] Like, it would feel very much.

[362] Just start, look, we love you, Sabs, but this is the format.

[363] What's your name?

[364] Who are you?

[365] Where are you from?

[366] Start at the beginning.

[367] This bitch is trying to jump shit.

[368] I know.

[369] Like, bye.

[370] You know me, bitch.

[371] You know me. You can look me up.

[372] Google me. No. tell them who are you actually that was my client my old client jess white said that on an episode of like tyrell on tv that's hilarious like who is you and she was like google me and then she told me it was like a scripted reality show I'm like oh I love that anyway um so my name is Sabrina row holdsworth which is my married name it used to be just Sabrina row which for business it is still Sabrina row shout out to Winston um I'm very I'm a very proud daughter I am originally from the Bronx, New York.

[373] I am 100 % of New Yorker through and through.

[374] I was born to two Latin parents.

[375] One is Puerto Rican.

[376] My mom is from Puerto Rico, and my dad is from Panama.

[377] So he's Afro -Latino, and he just is like, I'm black, y 'all.

[378] I'm African.

[379] He very much doesn't subscribe.

[380] He's like, I'm black.

[381] You don't need to know anything else.

[382] He won't even speak Spanish to strangers.

[383] Yeah, he gave that up years ago.

[384] He's like, nope, I've had enough trouble.

[385] I'm just going to be black, leave me alone.

[386] The limbo wasn't cute.

[387] I get it.

[388] I live in limbo.

[389] But, yeah, I am a third generation hairstylist.

[390] So my grandmother was the first.

[391] But I'm sure there's plenty more because, like, I have a cousin who is a barber.

[392] Like, it's very much a Latin thing to do, hair.

[393] And so that my mother did hair.

[394] And where my grandmother's passion was hair, My mom did it because it was a job.

[395] She immediately had a job in her mother's salon.

[396] Oh, was your grandma up in the Bronx doing here?

[397] No, no. They were in Chicago.

[398] They eventually came to New York, but she worked in Puerto Rico, then from Puerto Rico to like a quick pit stop in New York.

[399] And then my mom grew up actually in Chicago and went to high school there, which is so bizarre, and then came back to New York.

[400] So my grandma had salons in New York.

[401] both Chicago and I believe in New York.

[402] She done before I was born so I don't like have full tea on her full disclosure she was not welcoming of the melanin so we never really got that deep about her because I think it was a source of strain in my parents' relationship but anyway yeah so one would say that hair you know or beauty, rather, was in my bones.

[403] Yeah.

[404] Because before I wanted to be a hairstylist, I just happened to be good at it because I had mixed texture.

[405] And, you know, at the time, growing up in the 80s and 90s, I didn't, there wasn't a lot of, I mean, there were certainly plenty of mixed kids, but there wasn't like, you know, now we have brands called mixed chicks.

[406] Right.

[407] And, like, it is very much, you know, a relevant conversation, all of the different iterations of curl.

[408] Yeah.

[409] And I grew up where you're like black or you're Puerto Rican.

[410] And so either you have black hair or you have Puerto Rican hair.

[411] And so I had sort of the mix where it is extremely fine curly hair.

[412] So now, like, you know, it's very clear.

[413] People are like, oh, yeah, you have mixed.

[414] You're mixed.

[415] Right.

[416] You know.

[417] Then it was like, why's your hair so soft?

[418] You must got Indian in your family.

[419] Yeah.

[420] But too, it's back in the day there, like even, I mean, I grew up in the middle of nowhere.

[421] When we got a shelf in a Walmart, it was a very big deal.

[422] But, like, there wasn't, I mean, there was, like, blue magic.

[423] There was, like, the pink stuff.

[424] Oh, of course.

[425] There was.

[426] Queen Helene, baby, Queen.

[427] Yeah, and then that's not even before we started talking about the relaxers, right?

[428] Like, there just wasn't.

[429] I used to buy the olive oil hair masks from the ethnic section.

[430] Ooh, you have a nice section.

[431] See, never scared.

[432] She's like, I'm going to have black friends.

[433] I was like, I'm going to grease my scalp tonight.

[434] That's right.

[435] That's right.

[436] That's right.

[437] You're like, I don't know what edges are yet, but I will.

[438] I just remember being like, I need something for my dry ends, and this seems like it will work.

[439] Yeah.

[440] How'd it work?

[441] It was great.

[442] You see?

[443] But there wasn't a ton.

[444] There just wasn't, at the time, there wasn't a lot of different types of product at all.

[445] Like, we all had a big joke about, about frizzies, like, three girls with three different types of hair, and all of us went into the CVS.

[446] Like, yo, can I get the frizzies?

[447] Is it going to make my hair beautiful and shiny and lowy like this lady?

[448] Okay, but also, full disclosure, the picture that they do, like the before, like your crazy, frizzy hair.

[449] And then after I'm like, guys.

[450] Don't do that to black children.

[451] That's rude as hell.

[452] Yeah, honestly.

[453] Even Jewish girls.

[454] Like, don't do that to them.

[455] Like, there's no straight, no straightener.

[456] Like, she didn't blow dry that shit.

[457] Like, they package that.

[458] Like you ran it through your hair And you were, and you were, that was it, you were a mermaid.

[459] So, Sal, do you know my hair pretty well?

[460] You know my hair very well.

[461] But when I was like going through puberty, my hair was very strange.

[462] It was very wavy and unruly and frizzy just for like a couple years.

[463] And I remember buying like frizzies made some like creamy product that you pumped out.

[464] Yeah, the pump.

[465] It made my hair just look greasy and frizzy.

[466] It wasn't heavy enough.

[467] I know, like now, obviously, that I know about product.

[468] I have a completely different sort of an impression of the product.

[469] I realized, like, okay, this is what was not happening.

[470] It wasn't heavy enough to weigh down the frizz, but it was oil enough to make your hair appear oily.

[471] So it was like not enough emulsifier.

[472] Was it just silicates?

[473] Yes, but it's, I mean, obviously, I don't know the exact formula, so I don't want to go too deep, but it just, it was, it was a good idea, just not executed well.

[474] Well, and it was like, what else was there at the time?

[475] You know, it's funny because - And trust the thing is that Frizzis did work for some people.

[476] So if you were lucky to fall into that category, you're like, this is the truth.

[477] Who was it?

[478] This stuff is amazing.

[479] I've got to meet one.

[480] I had a woman maybe six or seven years ago.

[481] And that seems like a long time when I say it now because we've had such a fucked up year.

[482] Right.

[483] The year, like, aged us all for 10 years.

[484] But the, she brought in, she was from overseas from London, and she bought me frizzies for her blow dry.

[485] And I was like, okay.

[486] How to go?

[487] And then I remember seeing her walking down the block, and I was like, you know, she's like, yeah, because this makes my blowdry last really long.

[488] And all I was thinking was, yes, perhaps in London, where the water is different, and the humidity acts differently.

[489] Clip to give her her blowdraft.

[490] She was like, it is quite expensive for a blowdry, not here.

[491] Welcome.

[492] Gave her blowdrive.

[493] And I remember seeing her like two days later with her hair curly walking where her man. And I was like, see, I told you.

[494] One the last, girl.

[495] One the last.

[496] You thought you were going to get that same situation.

[497] And that's very interesting.

[498] Humidity and all these things.

[499] In New York is very different.

[500] So, like I said, there were plenty of women that were like, Grizzies is the truth.

[501] Right.

[502] But, yeah, not in New York.

[503] Yeah.

[504] So you're growing up in the Bronx and you are, when you're in high school, is that when you started to kind of like toy run, with hair because like as you're kind of taking us down and saying that your hair you know didn't really fit into any one category so did you take it upon yourself to figure it out um i would not say that i figured anything out i think i was experimenting and i went to an art school so um makeup and like wig work and um you know sort of character stuff with part of my curriculum yeah nice nice nice LaGuardia for the performing arts which yeah y 'all know the fame school I did not graduate though like I just want full disclosure because I think everybody gets super excited and I'm like oh my god I went there oh I wanted to go there and like I was not some like success story out of LaGuardia and had like you know a Timothy Shallomay moment like no child I went to LaGuardia like a lot of LaGuardians appreciated the program but I was going through a lot of personal shit at home.

[505] So I did not make it to continue.

[506] Like, I didn't finish.

[507] I dropped out and got my GED.

[508] And then I really, like, went hard and, like, trying to figure out a job in a situation.

[509] And that's when all that stuff that I'd learned there became like, okay, so this will just be my passing through stuff.

[510] Like, I didn't go to prom.

[511] I did some of my friends for prom.

[512] And, like, Instead of having a sweet 16 or a kinsa, which, you know, I'm not Mexican, but, like, you know, my parents were like, you can have a sweet 16.

[513] I was like, no, I want a box of makeup.

[514] Wow.

[515] I wanted a kit.

[516] I'm very like, listen, I'm going to be famous someday, so I need to be able to make myself look good because I don't think anybody's going to be able to handle myself.

[517] All this.

[518] Nobody can handle all this, Sabrina.

[519] So let me handle myself.

[520] Which is totally not true.

[521] There are plenty of incredibly talented hair and makeup artist out there.

[522] Yes, but I was just so insecure and, you know, just having a mom that didn't understand my hair and, you know, my sister's hair texture was different.

[523] Like, I'm, I come from a big family and we all have different hair being mixed.

[524] So it was like, you know, from like 4C to like two.

[525] You know, like it was a run of the gamut.

[526] And for those of you that don't know what those numbers mean, it just means from like as coiled curly as possible to as straight.

[527] Like, it was a run of the gamut.

[528] And for those of you that don't know what those numbers mean, it just means from like as coiled curly as cold curly as straight.

[529] Like, as straight of a wave you could imagine possible.

[530] So, you know, you lay on it and it's straight.

[531] You put your hair in a ponytail and it falls straight.

[532] Right, right, right, right.

[533] You lay out of a wave.

[534] It's not really a wave, but it's enough that we can mention that it's a wave.

[535] Right.

[536] Okay.

[537] And then so, so, all right, continue.

[538] So you, what was next for you after, like, high school and, like, you got your kit from your mom.

[539] And then, like, where did your...

[540] Well, that was the start of my kit, because that wasn't, like, my real kit.

[541] It was just, like, it really, like, wet my palate and got me, like, really into sort of playing with makeup and playing with him.

[542] Realizing not, like, it could be a supplement, you know, of my income.

[543] And so, like, a fast forward, because I don't really want to, like, rehash every step in my.

[544] It's, like, not, like, not my fuzzy warm place.

[545] Yeah, take us where you want to take us.

[546] been 20 years doing this shit.

[547] So I it basically like it really sort of set off when my mom fell ill with cancer and then I realized like okay I have to step up for my family and I've got to be an adult now.

[548] Um, which just meant like, you know, the money I made wasn't just mine.

[549] Like the money I made was for me to help my dad for, you know, for my siblings to feel that pressure because like my sister was going to college and, like, trying to figure out her shit.

[550] My brothers were still in parochial high school, and I had to help them, you know, with their tuition and stuff.

[551] And I realized, like, okay, like, I can actually make money doing this.

[552] And even, like, even at that point, I still thought it was, like, a pause.

[553] I did not.

[554] It took me so long to realize, like, girl, this is your life now.

[555] Well, what did you think that you're going to do?

[556] What was the...

[557] I thought I was going to be an actress, singer, dancer.

[558] lawyer.

[559] I was like if I don't, you know, do like work and performing arts, I was like, I'm going to actually finish college and go to law school.

[560] And that is 100 % not what happened.

[561] I've dropped in for a million classes and I can probably fake it really well.

[562] But yeah, she's no lawyer.

[563] But she can write pretty well.

[564] There's a lot.

[565] There's like so many there's too many lawyers right now from what I understand in this country.

[566] Oh, really?

[567] Yeah.

[568] I think you dodged a bullet girl.

[569] I think you may, I think, yeah, I think so.

[570] I've been talking to a lot of people because this is a path that I hear a lot of specifically women because I work with women.

[571] Like if you have a certain amount of like intelligence and you're in a place in your life where like you're not necessarily sure where you want to go, I think law school is like sort of an obvious option of just like.

[572] Yeah, just like, well, there's a lot of can do with it.

[573] I can like continue this.

[574] And you can use it for so many things.

[575] So I know a lot of women that are similar to us that like almost went down.

[576] that path or we're very close to going down that path we've spoken i took the fucking elsaat three times bitch thought she was going to law school and i know it's so it's like i that for me when you told me that i was like see you're like that makes sense there's so much sense it makes so much right but i say that because i don't think i'm happy that it wasn't the path that you took do you know i'm happy that it wasn't the path that ended up for you honest no honestly because i hear you say that the path you're on is so meant for you yes i think so too yeah since i've known you just make guys yeah I mean, some days I think, yeah, some days I'm like, I know, it's hard.

[577] It's hard, I think, when you come from, you know, parents that are born, I mean, like my mom is technically, you know, was born a citizen, but because it's still like a territory and not, like, mainland.

[578] You know, there is that immigrant mentality that's forever etched in her mind.

[579] And my father's mind being born out of the country, born and raised, because my dad didn't come to.

[580] the States till he was 30.

[581] Oh, wow.

[582] Yeah.

[583] And, you know, obviously in wanting to make them proud, it's like be famous, which is a hood mentality thing.

[584] Yeah.

[585] I think any person of color that's come from the hood and, like, has a little bit of skill doing anything, whether it be singing or dancing or acting or drawing or you're like, be famous because this is like, you know, you think it's like this quick pipeline to money where you can save everybody and buy everybody a house.

[586] Right.

[587] But in reality, well, you end up doing, I mean, sometimes, yes, they win and they become famous and they love it and it's great and whatever.

[588] But a lot of times it's, you know, you're like, you just want to do something that makes them proud.

[589] Yes.

[590] And every sacrifice that they've made worth it.

[591] Yes.

[592] To some degree.

[593] And so while I am extremely proud of what I've done, I think that there's always going to be a little bit of a chip on my shoulder because I was a little bit.

[594] like a nerd um that i didn't do something more like socially impactful like where i love my job and the thing is like when you go through a global pandemic you realize like you just play with curls and lipstick like you're literally not saving anybody ship and when the chips all fell and we realized like who actually is essential that was where i was like oh my god i am so not essential even though I think what I do carry value, it's that bit.

[595] And what can I do to like, you know, use what I know and marry the scientific part of my brain and the creative part of my brain and do something, you know, do something that I feel will be important without having to touch people?

[596] Because, you know, for a long time, like, I was legally not allowed.

[597] but we're not allowed to touch people.

[598] Yeah.

[599] And I've touched people for 20 years.

[600] Yeah.

[601] So it's like, you know, one of those things, I mean, over 20 years, but 20 years, I say that because I've been credited for 20 years.

[602] Like, I count the year that I was first published as my first year.

[603] But I was doing hair and makeup, you know, easily six years before that.

[604] Just like, you know, it was trash.

[605] I mean, a lot of that first five years, 10 years was trash.

[606] I feel like I just got good 10 years ago.

[607] But that's how my brand was born.

[608] Natural by Sabs was born out of like the need for me to do something that was passive that, you know, allowed me to utilize the scientific part of what I've learned in this business and through my studies all over the world and be able to fill a hole that I thought should be filled.

[609] in the beauty business and to be, you know, a true entrepreneur and show, I'm going to get emotional.

[610] I'm PMSing, so please do not.

[611] Oh, stop.

[612] You can show emotions.

[613] It's okay.

[614] No, I know, but I don't love that.

[615] Oh, we love you.

[616] But it was really important for me to show other children of immigrant parents that, you know, even if it isn't, you're not the lawyer -engineered doctor that a lot of them want.

[617] Yeah.

[618] You can do something and be the first to do something.

[619] You know, I'm the first in my family to start a brand.

[620] I'm the first.

[621] And that I formulated myself, which is insane, you know.

[622] And I am super proud of that.

[623] Yeah.

[624] And in the middle of the pandemic, I would call sounds and be like, what are you doing?

[625] She's like, bitch, I'm learning chemistry.

[626] Get off the phone.

[627] I can't talk to you right now.

[628] I'm like, all right, girl, let me know when you're ready.

[629] I know.

[630] I was like, fitting.

[631] I'm like, I cannot talk.

[632] I'm sorry.

[633] Literally, like with beakers right now.

[634] Yeah.

[635] Which is so awesome.

[636] It's so, so awesome.

[637] Yeah, was that part of your inspiration for starting this line?

[638] Or what kind of, was this something you wanted to do like forever and you just never had to be to be able to?

[639] But I never, I honestly thought I would do it like when I was much older.

[640] I was like, yeah, it's something that I'll toy around with when I'm, older and I like have more of a name um so that people are like oh she did it I'm buying it done you know because just being a part of this industry and entertainment and beauty I'm very aware of like the bottom line people love to be told what to do especially love to be told what to do by a familiar face so taraji did a hair line taraji's hair lines doing well yeah we don't know taraji for hair, but we love her hair.

[641] Yes.

[642] And we love her looks and we love what she serves.

[643] So we're like, we co -signed taraji.

[644] Totally.

[645] And also on an age of like a lot of misinformation.

[646] There's like the consumer is very smart right now.

[647] And all they have to do is turn over the bottle and do a Google.

[648] And so people want to know who's selling, like who's making this product that I'm buying.

[649] Do I believe them and the ingredients that they're putting in it?

[650] Exactly.

[651] I will use it.

[652] That's more it.

[653] Like, and to your point, which I think is really important, which I definitely want to touch on, is how the buyer is smart.

[654] Yes, the buyer is much more educated, like more than any other time before.

[655] But I will say that this is a double -edged sword because I, in my own education, formulation education and chemistry education, a lot of times what you read on the bottle, A, you don't know the person.

[656] percentages.

[657] B, you don't know what that product does.

[658] And we know these names, some of them, we know the names, to do something different.

[659] So, for example, alcohol, like in black hair care, we're all like, no alcohol.

[660] I don't want no alcohol.

[661] Ladies, yes, you do.

[662] Alcohol is a preservative.

[663] It is a naturally occurring preservative.

[664] It is not drying your product out because you'd have no product.

[665] Yeah.

[666] It is helping preserve your product so we can use less garbage in that product.

[667] So yes, you do.

[668] It can't all be oil.

[669] Yeah.

[670] It is going to rot.

[671] Yeah.

[672] Like that's the thing is like you want it natural.

[673] You want it with crazy results and you want it to last for the four years that it stays in your cabinet.

[674] Right.

[675] Yes.

[676] Yes.

[677] And I'm sorry, but that's just not the case.

[678] Like for me, I was like, like, which I do for my line use almost entirely organic or like organic substitute or acceptably used products, like ingredients and everything.

[679] But I can't, could not afford to get all of my products examined to get this stamp of like USDA organic, like people don't realize that.

[680] I'm like, it's like you, you want it to be natural and you want it to be amazing.

[681] It's like I am using those ingredients, but it doesn't matter.

[682] Yeah.

[683] The point is at the end.

[684] And this is where I'm like systemic.

[685] Like there are so many things to say about why we have what we have as a people, especially as a black people.

[686] Like I need that aren't with money.

[687] I need that uncle with money.

[688] I don't have that.

[689] So basically I used my entire life savings to create a brand that I'm proud of.

[690] But I can't even tell you that all the products are organic because I can't afford to.

[691] Yeah.

[692] This is the reality that I live in.

[693] And it made me check myself because I'm like, look at all these products that, A, first of all, like we've all used shit.

[694] Like we've all used garbage.

[695] Daily use garbage.

[696] Nobody is not using some kind of garbage.

[697] Yes.

[698] Whether it be their toothpaste or whatever.

[699] But we're comfortable with that garbage.

[700] Right.

[701] But now because like, you know, in beauty, we're like, we've got bloggers who like rip, you know, ingredients to shreds.

[702] And like we'll tell you, oh, well, this is what.

[703] this does.

[704] And I'm like, Queen, are you a formula, like, do you know a percentage that this person is working with?

[705] It just, do you even know hair?

[706] Do you even know hair?

[707] And you don't.

[708] Besides your own hair.

[709] Yes.

[710] Yes.

[711] Yes.

[712] And you just know what you think looks good.

[713] And everything.

[714] It's so irritating.

[715] It's like, no. Yes.

[716] We don't get to like pick and choose who sits on our chair all the time.

[717] Yes.

[718] Yes.

[719] I have a very diverse chair, which means I've had every race, every religion, every creed.

[720] I have a private studio.

[721] So I have a, many women in hijab come here and get their hair done.

[722] I have many Jewish clients who send me their wigs or come in here for their wigs.

[723] Like this is a reality.

[724] I know things about scalps that like people would not want me to share.

[725] You know what I mean?

[726] Yeah.

[727] So there's just always so much more to the story and we get very hung up on canceling and this is good and this is bad.

[728] And I'm like different strokes for different folks.

[729] And we need to remember that this is a capitalist country.

[730] yeah and there is a lot that goes into someone bringing a product to market yeah yeah like i'm small people like oh are you going to be retailing in a bunch no no guys do i want to get picked up by the targets and sephoras and et cetera the big box retailers yes someday yeah but it means that i would need the amount of product that this little pocket cannot afford yeah she cannot afford i don't believe in going to going into heavy debt to make this a reality like i i'm i'm uncomfortable debt now.

[731] Yes.

[732] You know?

[733] And I wasn't before.

[734] Yeah.

[735] You know.

[736] Well, it's a lot of optics, right?

[737] It's like the, you know, I remember my cousin, my little cousin came to New York for the first time a couple, like maybe last Christmas and she's like, oh, girl, you know, looking up at the buildings, don't you want to, don't you want a true beauty up there?

[738] I said, bitch, no. I want my overhead to be as low as possible.

[739] Like, when I first started, yes.

[740] I wanted all these big things.

[741] I want, you know, the glass, all this shit to show.

[742] Bitch, I want to make money.

[743] I don't care what the optics are.

[744] And it's exactly.

[745] Yes.

[746] And a lot of what a lot of people don't know is that when you sell to big retailers like that, the margin is terrible, which means what you make on each item is so low that basically all it is is broad advertising.

[747] Yes.

[748] It is the way that you put into a business plan here, give me more money because these people want my product.

[749] That's all it is.

[750] Like, it takes so long for you to actually go green from the red.

[751] And, like, natural isn't anywhere near there, but I am so incredibly proud of what's inside these products.

[752] So I'm not in a rush.

[753] I'm not in a rush to bring more products to market.

[754] Everybody's asking me about styling, styling, styling, styling.

[755] I'm like, here's the thing.

[756] As a hairstylist and a, you know, cosmetologist of many years, what I think is the most important, thing and every stylist that is sat behind a chair in a salon will agree with me is it starts with your shampoo and conditioning ritual that's where it starts healthy hair is not something i can give you healthy practice between you the products you choose to put in your hair the things you put in your mouth and you drink and you smoke etc and then the like treatments that you apply to said hair.

[757] Like, it's not a one -step process.

[758] And it really, the great responsibility relies in the user, in the consumer.

[759] And I know it's like, everybody wants me to be like, yes, my product is going to save you.

[760] And it may band -aid the situation because they are incredible products.

[761] But if you have terrible, like, shampoo and conditioning, basically, if you have poor habits which means you don't shampoo enough you you know shampoo too much you under condition you over condition you eat poorly you party every week every weekend every night however like no judgment but don't expect to have healthy anything and products you're going to be that I'm like I've done it all the ways guys I've done the legwork for you bottom line is how it is it's true yes I don't have easy hair.

[762] I've never had easy hair.

[763] Good product makes me feel better about life, but it never will solve the fact that I have not easy hair to maintain.

[764] Curly hair is, it is high maintenance.

[765] We don't live in the bush, and we don't live in a society where our hair can just be what it is.

[766] Like, we have to whip it into submission because this is what we have been conditioned to do.

[767] And so that's why she got locks on her head.

[768] I'm like, I'm done subscribing to these.

[769] I got the time.

[770] Like, Western ideals of beauty.

[771] I love these locks.

[772] I don't, like, I have my model today ask me if my hair is real.

[773] And I'm like, why is it relevant?

[774] I just put all this fake shit on your face.

[775] Yeah.

[776] Is your face real?

[777] But you know what I mean?

[778] This is something that as a black woman, especially, and as a woman in general, in beauty, you constantly have to come up against.

[779] And it's like she didn't mean anything by it.

[780] She's not American.

[781] Yeah.

[782] Like, you know, she, her English is not great, but, you know, she just was curious.

[783] She was curious.

[784] And, you know, it wasn't my time to teach her a lesson in, like, of her greatness.

[785] Like, you know, I'm like, you wouldn't want anybody to ask you what you are.

[786] Or you wouldn't want anybody to ask you, like, if your hair is fake.

[787] I could never imagine asking somebody, like a stranger.

[788] Because you're black.

[789] It doesn't occur to us because it, we don't, we're not in the position to ask.

[790] stupid questions like that.

[791] I'm sorry.

[792] And I'm sorry.

[793] Like, listeners, I love you and I appreciate you being curious, but that's what fucking Google is for.

[794] Do not disrespect any black or brown woman.

[795] If you don't fucking know, look it up.

[796] Don't ask her.

[797] She's not here to teach you about her hair.

[798] Also, why can't people just say, I love your hair?

[799] Thank you.

[800] Why does it have to be like...

[801] That's what she said after.

[802] I love your hair.

[803] Why did you need to know if it was real?

[804] Yeah.

[805] Wait, real quick, I had a client the other day who was black and she was saying how she's like I really have been loving like experimenting with different wigs and she's like I do it myself so it doesn't look good you could see the lace or whatever and she was like oh yeah I'm like but I didn't notice up she's like you didn't notice I'm like I don't know I'm white and maybe that's because I don't wear wig that's not something I would notice yeah yeah yeah and she was dying and I'm like I see now but like it's no because her girlfriends probably drag her ass like especially black women we will drag each other to filth like and it's also that is also is we don't let each other shine.

[806] We don't let each other shine.

[807] That's also part of it.

[808] And so we make it a joke.

[809] Like obviously, like we do it to each other.

[810] I love you to definitely like my sister.

[811] You're also her hair girl.

[812] I was like, wait, first of all, wait, I just have to say something.

[813] Sabs, you're not not letting me shine by telling me that my fucking edges are a mess.

[814] And you're letting me shine.

[815] You're not, you're not, you're like, it's the opposite.

[816] You're like, girl, why are you doing that to yourself?

[817] How we like drag each other and we're like, A, on one side, we, we, we always want the best, like, you know, we expect the best from the people that are around us, the people that we care for, but then be, like, it is also a traumatic conditioning that we have encountered as black women that we, we are always the butt of a joke, therefore we can't just, like, let us just the rock if her lace is, like, slipping.

[818] Like, if her lace is peeling up, like, you have to be the one to, like, lay it on her.

[819] And it's like, why?

[820] Like, granted, yes, I want you to tell me if my lace is...

[821] No, I know what you mean.

[822] No, I know exactly what you mean because it always comes down to, like, it's one of the first things that you and I spoke about when we were talking...

[823] One of our first conversations Alex and I had, I was talking to her about, like, a hair wrap.

[824] And she was like, what's a hair wrap?

[825] I was like, you've seen women walking around with their hair wrapped.

[826] You probably just thought that it was a hairstyle.

[827] You didn't know what they were doing.

[828] But like, if my mama saw me walking around my hair wrap, she would whip my ass.

[829] And she's like, why?

[830] And I said, well, because she'd say, what would white people think?

[831] And Alex was like, but why?

[832] Like, just it didn't click.

[833] And then I thought, well, you're right.

[834] Like, in saying this out loud, it doesn't make sense, but it's conditioning in that, like, we have to present ourselves.

[835] And you even said that, you're like, what?

[836] So you can actually be taken seriously, like, as a human?

[837] It doesn't make any sense.

[838] Yes.

[839] But, like, yes, but that is what it is.

[840] You know, when you say it out loud like that, it sounds ridiculous.

[841] But it isn't because this is the society that we live in, you know?

[842] Exactly.

[843] Yeah.

[844] And we're just all trying to, like, stay alive in it.

[845] And it's not.

[846] That's true, basically.

[847] To me, it's really, I think it's super important, you know, to remind, I don't know, I just love to have these conversations and call it what it is, like, you know, the joking and like all that stuff like that we do, because it is still a source of pain for a lot of women.

[848] And there are still many women that wake up every day.

[849] And I'm sure there are men too, but I'm more care about the women because I'm sorry.

[850] Like, we're really at the bottom, bottom of it all that, you know, wake up and they hate their hair.

[851] And they look and hair and this is sort of like what, you know, when I realize like, wow, I'm like fully in love with this thing.

[852] hair is a way for us to like describe each other it's one of the if not the first thing that anyone notices about you is your hair like you can um for example uh i was watching it like um it was like a docu series or whatever and um it was one of those crime shows crime shows crime show um but it was basically about how like you know in the lineup in uh i forget what they're called the the ones that draw the like when you're doing the police sketches yeah the police sketch um they have a name i don't know if it's like crud off oh yeah i know you talk about i don't don't be in this guy they were interviewing was saying hair is one of the like best sort of of usually one of the most accurate things that people describe because it's the thing that leaves the longest impression interesting that's so interesting but so think about my hair more if you were sending an uber if you were sending an uber for me and you're like yeah but it's not me it's a girl and she what is one of the first things you're going to say you'd say her hair color at least exactly yeah a brunette the number one thing And so I saw another, like, in my many, many years of, like, nerding out on, like, why we think what we think.

[853] But, like, the whole, like, interview thing and interview culture and, you know, and I think I told you guys about this before, where it was, like, two women, same exact credentials look really similar.

[854] They had these two women.

[855] It was, like, sort of focus group situation.

[856] same like same exact credentials the only difference was how they like each um each wore their hair so um one woman like they both had curly hair but could be straightened so you know same interview like went on the interview um with curly hair and vice versa so like two different employers right right right one with curly hair one with straight hair each time the straight hair person won.

[857] Each time, when the girl wore her hair straight, she got the job.

[858] Yeah.

[859] And does it matter what her ethnicity was?

[860] No. Huh.

[861] Curly hair is perceived.

[862] So, you know, it was based, right.

[863] Wild, unkempt, free, not serious.

[864] Right.

[865] I was thinking wild in like a good.

[866] way but I guess they're obviously looking at it like why.

[867] That's what I think but a lot of times when people say well they do not mean it in a positive way.

[868] Well it's because we're three yes certainly because it's conformity right it's it's that curly isn't the norm it's the majority I should say it's not like there's plenty of curly hair though that's like yes I don't know what the actual statistics are okay well I think it's way well in terms of like the the white beauty standard curly is not it curly isn't it.

[869] Curly ain't it.

[870] And that's why I was literally using a clothing iron to straighten my hair when I was 12 years old.

[871] Yeah, right?

[872] Because I had that weird, wavy, frizzy hair.

[873] We burn, we put chemicals in our hair from the time that we're five years old to straighten it.

[874] To burn your scalp.

[875] Like, how many chemical burns have you fucking had?

[876] It's insane.

[877] It's insane, yeah.

[878] You're absolutely right.

[879] And I'm only, I, we live in Brooklyn, so it's easy to forget.

[880] get these things because we live in a place where uniqueness is celebrated and you're rewarded for being unique and for being different, I think.

[881] I think that we would all agree, right?

[882] It's like probably one of the few places in the world.

[883] Right?

[884] Well, yeah.

[885] I'm like she's a magical multicultural bubble.

[886] Exactly right.

[887] But you're absolutely right is it's not the norm.

[888] It's so far from the norm that it shocks me which it means New York is doing its job I think but it's really I told you again like my young cousin when she came to New York and she said you know Elizabeth I love your hair but my mom would say that it was ghetto and it's like well it breaks my heart you know yeah yeah I mean when I told my parents I was locking my hair the response was and I knew it wasn't going to be a good response because if I ever wore braids they'd be like why are you doing that they were like why you have good hair see through and I was like that's why tell the people I don't want to sound mean you're the one who said that to me and it's the funniest thing I ever heard in my life or so I was just like she's like I yes I can grow my hair long and for that I have quote unquote good hair but it's see through she said that shit ain't thick and it's just yes so to give context to what she's talking about you know I was telling her you know exactly that about like how like oh but your hair can grow, it can grow long.

[889] I'm like, so, my hair is so fine that when it's long, it is literally see -through.

[890] There's a, it will continue to grow.

[891] Yes, I have hair that will imagine you having fine.

[892] Oh, it's so fine.

[893] It's, I'll show you.

[894] I'll show you a picture.

[895] Yeah.

[896] Um, it's so fine.

[897] And so basically like the wind, it, if there's even a bit, you're really, it's like, there's a little bit of wind.

[898] But you have more than me. So you have fine here, you have more of it.

[899] So I find here and I don't have a lot of hair.

[900] So, it was like twofold and I'm like cool yeah it can see you want to just see right through it exactly you want to be that old hippie lady with her hair that's like you know like sweeping the floor but it's like frizzy and like literally you can you can see right through it like it's a like it's like she just got the joke curtains yeah yeah there's nothing cute about that and she showed me a picture it really is because it's on her back but it's used to me it text me phone yes I'm gonna send it to you It is not good.

[901] It's not good.

[902] And when I explain it, when I had it, and I show people like, look at this white towel and look at, does that look like beautiful hair to you?

[903] Yeah.

[904] But I get it.

[905] Some, like, everybody has, and I know that there are going to be people like that hear this and they're like, what?

[906] But there is a point where everyone's hair stops growing.

[907] There are some people that have hair that will grow till, you know, longer than their height.

[908] It's not that common.

[909] But it's much more common, especially in curly and, like curly textured hair.

[910] And same, like, maybe really it's everybody.

[911] Like, everybody has a length that their hair grows too.

[912] And depending on your height, it looks longer, shorter, whatever.

[913] but there are a lot of coiled textures that won't grow long.

[914] It will never be long.

[915] It was not meant to be long.

[916] It was meant to grow up and out.

[917] And because of our Western styling ideals and like the way that we, you know, we picture beauty, like what we perceive to be beautiful based on this westernized conditioning, you know, They're like, you know, my hair's not beautiful because it's not long and it's like not all hair is supposed to be long, y 'all.

[918] But you can have long hair if you make an appointment with Sabrina Rose.

[919] I'll weave your dreams.

[920] But this is like, you know, that's why I really got like deep into extensions because I'm like, guys, it's it is a fact.

[921] Like you're not going to have some people, yes, are born with a hair that they want.

[922] but, like, mostly we're all, like, looking at over the fence.

[923] Like, the grass is greener over there.

[924] Yeah.

[925] I have a texture that I know, like, you know, my sister loved.

[926] And, like, I have so many friends that were like, girl, I wish I had your hair.

[927] But then at the same time, like, I wish I had your hair, your hair stronger than mine.

[928] When you have the hair and you deal with, like, I understand the benefits to them, like, just like, you know, being able to, like, use edge control, and it doesn't matter if it's good or not.

[929] Like, and my edges will stay down.

[930] Yes, yes, I know, but that's a better.

[931] but at the same time it's like I want thick cornrows I will never have thick cornrows like it will never what I will never straight cornrow my hair because it is just so much space sick and that's when people realize how little hair I actually have I did it once I did as an adult and I don't I don't even know if there are pictures but I wanted to like see like oh well maybe I do have more like density or whatever no child no yeah that's like if someone did a French braid my hair you could swim between the cornrows like no no it was so tragic so I use that braid down to put throw a weave in yeah this is track that worked but you know I think it's it's important the reason I love to talk to you Sav's about hair and everything is because I don't know it's this thing that we all have and it's like very few people are lucky enough to just have hair that like just it does what you want it to do it just works right like very very few of us especially if we are a person of color you know you need to know the secrets somebody's got to tell you because you're looking at these people like how the fuck are they doing it I walked around for years just like how are you doing it until I met Sabrina and she told me all the damn secrets I never got a real braid lesson like when I started braiding like my friend Levis taught me how to braid purely because I was, like, getting bullied so bad.

[932] And I love seeing her braid her own hair.

[933] I'm like, this bitch can, like, she's sitting here, and she braided her in here.

[934] I'm like, this is amazing.

[935] I'm like, girl, can you show me or whatever?

[936] And she did, and I'm sure, and it's so funny because now we're connected again on Facebook.

[937] And I feel like I should send her message like, girl, you realize that you taught me how to change my life.

[938] I think she realized that she taught me how to break and how much that did for me. Did you say that to her?

[939] No, I haven't.

[940] Wow.

[941] Because I literally just got back on Facebook for the brand.

[942] Wait, but while we're talking about that, can you tell us about the line and the products that you have?

[943] Yeah, I mean, there's tons, but basically, I mean, I love them all, but I...

[944] I'm biased, obviously.

[945] I like the nourishing line.

[946] Yeah, the products are broken up into two, like, in my mind, not on the website.

[947] They're like, I'm going to go to your website.

[948] Like, no, they are not.

[949] Between the liquids and the solids.

[950] So I have liquid products that include there are four of them.

[951] There's a hair oil called the nourishing rose oil.

[952] Then there's my nourishing shampoo, the nourishing conditioner, which is the conditioner.

[953] If you highlight your hair, you need all the nourishing.

[954] products.

[955] Yes, you do.

[956] I agree.

[957] It was really about color.

[958] Like, those products were about curls and color.

[959] And I was like, how can I solve a major issue?

[960] Like, because I knew I didn't want a crazy long range and certainly not to launch with.

[961] I did launch with more products than I thought I would, but the stars were aligning.

[962] I was so happy with the formulas.

[963] And I was like, look, I have too many kinds of clients to be like, I have four products and none of them are for you.

[964] Yes.

[965] I got to keep going.

[966] Got to keep going.

[967] And so I have the soothing scalp shampoo.

[968] Um, and so those are the four.

[969] So I did those four products because I knew that if anyone was going to take me seriously, they needed to be able to consume a product in the way that they know, which is in a liquid form.

[970] The packaging is beautiful.

[971] It's matte black.

[972] I really spent a four.

[973] fortune on that.

[974] I love the products.

[975] The packaging.

[976] It's really beautiful.

[977] It's very chic.

[978] P .E .T. Like so highly recyclable plastic.

[979] There is a huge plastic shortage right now because of COVID, because of our relations with China.

[980] Thanks, 45.

[981] And so, you know, it is very expensive because the bottles, just the bottles are so expensive.

[982] And the labels are really beautiful.

[983] and those are expensive as well because I wanted them to last in the shower and then I wanted you to be able to take them off so you didn't chuck your bottle, you saved your bottle and used to do something else.

[984] So at the heart of like me wanting to do a line, which to return to your earlier question, yes, I always wanted to do a line.

[985] I did think I was going to do it a lot older.

[986] I'm turning 40.

[987] I was like, I want to start this conversation when I'm 50.

[988] because I figured at that point I'll be much more like known which is so ridiculous and you know I'll have slowed down I won't travel as much so that I can focus on focus all my energies on you know formulating a beautiful line and have some money to boot but then obviously everything like shook up and then I was like okay girl the universe is asking you basically how natural was born was these like I was already taking formulation class because I was like, you know what?

[989] Like, I love the science anyway.

[990] So let me just like learn as much as it possibly can.

[991] Exactly.

[992] And then, you know, I can tinker for a couple of years and then, you know, figure it out.

[993] But then I was having these virtual consults for all of my clients that I couldn't see.

[994] And it's interesting because like when, you know, the beginning of COVID and we went on serious lockdown, I had, it was like, all these clients that I hadn't even seen in a long time reached out to me. And we're like, you know, they live in different cities now.

[995] And they're like, well, it's virtual.

[996] I want to see Sabrina.

[997] Yeah.

[998] And it was so like when I tell you, I mean, lit me up.

[999] Like I didn't even realize I'm like, y 'all still think about me. Like, you don't even live here.

[1000] Like, I love how hair and makeup has allowed me to touch so many people's lives and that in some ways that I've remained memorable to, them by doing something silly like hair and makeup.

[1001] Because people have remembered the way that you make them feel.

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] Do you know?

[1004] Well, yes.

[1005] Yes.

[1006] And you get to give people like the ultimate girl.

[1007] You make people feel like the shit.

[1008] Like that's your job.

[1009] It's to make me feel beautiful.

[1010] When you did my hair, I felt like a fucking supermodel.

[1011] Yes.

[1012] So of course that people...

[1013] I would like doing shit like Yes.

[1014] And you need to know who the fuck was that girl.

[1015] For sure.

[1016] Like how can I feel like this all the time?

[1017] Who is that girl that made me feel like this I'm honestly like yes well so I was having these consults and I'm like okay well I was having these consults and I'm like okay you can get this this this this and that and then you can mix this and do this and blah blah blah and they're like girl just tell me what to buy yes I'm not going to mix anything just tell me what to buy tell me what to buy and it just kept going like that like I'd give them all these instructions and how to do like an apple cider vinegar rinse on your hair to like just get everything out clean your scalp if they're suffering from dandra or like psoriasis or anything like that.

[1018] I'm like, okay, use this product.

[1019] And I realized I'm like, girl, all you're doing.

[1020] So, you know, I charged obviously for these consultations.

[1021] But then it's like now I've given you a way to where to buy your color, where to buy these products, and you're gone.

[1022] You're gone.

[1023] So I was just putting money back into the pockets of people that already have lots of money yeah and I'm like sorry I ain't got no generational wealth so then I was like okay clean I like looked at my coins I talked to Joe I'm like Joe am I crazy should I do this and he was like if you're crazy sign me up I believe in yeah yeah um so then it was like full steam ahead yeah um and so uh to returned to where I was, was the liquid products were for, it was important for me to do that because I really didn't want to.

[1024] But it was important for me to do that so that people would trust the integrity of the product.

[1025] And like me not push them too far with the shampoo bars, conditioner bars, lotion bars and like my bar, my sustainable, like lower your carbon imprint life.

[1026] Yeah.

[1027] So then, and which was the most important thing to me, because I am, you know, a black woman with dreadlocks.

[1028] And I love doing protective styles on my clients and myself.

[1029] I have been using shampoo bars for the last few years.

[1030] And I knew I'm like, I want an entire line of bars.

[1031] I, like, really just wanted it to be a collection that was zero waste.

[1032] That was, like, the dream.

[1033] But I know the consumer, and the consumer is like, bitch, what's a bar?

[1034] Yo, sorry, I gave Kevin a bar and he goes, yo, I got my soap on a rope.

[1035] I was like, shut up with the soap on a rope.

[1036] I love it.

[1037] I love it.

[1038] But so first I, you know, I did the liquid so that, you know, people would trust me. And the bars, the thing about the collection is that there is this beautiful, sustainable, clean sort of aspect to it, thus natural by sabs.

[1039] And natural doesn't mean that the products are all natural, because there are obviously preservatives in the liquids.

[1040] Like, that's just impossible not to use some things that keep it alive.

[1041] Yeah.

[1042] But I went as far as I possibly could in using natural ingredients.

[1043] And truly the natural is about, like, bringing out what's beautifully natural about your hair.

[1044] Whether that be colored hair, your weave, your braids, your pro.

[1045] I love hair, and I think it's all good.

[1046] I'm not, I do not subscribe to, you know, You got that good hair.

[1047] I don't subscribe to that because it is a horrible way to think about human beings.

[1048] I just don't think it's right.

[1049] Yeah.

[1050] Even like frizzy hair, why are we so afraid of us?

[1051] I hate that word.

[1052] It is so frustrating as someone who is highly educated in hair and hair's chemistry that we consider these things that naturally occur error.

[1053] Yeah.

[1054] Oh.

[1055] When it's the way for the hair to take the brunt of the natural.

[1056] elements.

[1057] Wow.

[1058] Coiled hair had a purpose.

[1059] It protected us from insects, sunburn, you know, dirt, debris.

[1060] Yeah.

[1061] There was a purpose behind this hair.

[1062] You know, like, you know, for example, like the Vikings, like, you know, that hair grew incredibly long because it worked to keep them warm.

[1063] Like, it's not, it's all for a reason.

[1064] And we've come so far away from that.

[1065] like a evolutionary past that we you know it's pretty good bad and it's like no dog it's just hair yeah like so when you sit in my chair the first thing you know everybody's apologizing everybody's always apologizing yes for their skin for their hair i didn't wash it i washed it too much is it too clean is it too dirty all this shit like you come into my chair and welcome home that's number one welcome home this isn't a place for you to be judged it's for me to tell you the truth and for you to leave feeling good about yourself you're perfect the way that you are i just i want my products and i want my services to only heighten that in whatever way you want which is why um natural by sabs i focused on cleansing products first cleansing and conditioning because i think that that's paramount and we don't focus on the most important important step.

[1066] Yeah.

[1067] If you have really good shampoo and conditioning practice, typically your need for products is much, much lower.

[1068] And I'm not saying for it to do something that it wouldn't naturally do.

[1069] Because that's crazy.

[1070] There's no magic in the bottle.

[1071] There's no magic.

[1072] So yes, if you want your hair to do something that wouldn't naturally do, you're going to always need products.

[1073] Yes.

[1074] Like if you want it to be curly with a wand And you don't expect it Like and you want it to stay in your hair Straight without product like you're tripping That's not going to happen Without product My hair literally you put a curl in my hair Yeah it's gonna fall Magic and a bottle dude That's like that was so That was like all right Magic and a bottle hit me in a way I had to like let you keep going Because that's what they have sold us our whole lives And you know I know girl You and I are two little yes we're two little brown girls you know i search for fucking magic in a bottle every bottle that i bought every single bottle that i bought yes i was like there was here's 599s that like that's going to get me to whatever it is right and like i wanted to be like to perfection do you know what i mean it's like i don't even know what dude it's so yeah hair dude it's so crazy it's so crazy it's like yeah i mean the lies the lies the lies yes that's sort of again like going back to the line is that was part of like the most important thing to me is like for this thing to not get too big before like too big for its britches like I'm glad that the product has been well received thus far I am not at a stage that I'm ready to grow much more this year we are still very much in a global pandemic yeah you know there's a vaccination I got my first shot y 'all got your first shot yeah but like we're still very much in it and I am not working as much as I would normally be working.

[1075] Therefore, I don't have as much money to put into the line.

[1076] This is self -funded and no, I don't want your money because I don't want anybody's accountability.

[1077] Yeah, I don't want to pay back anybody.

[1078] Yeah.

[1079] I don't want to answer to anyone.

[1080] Yeah.

[1081] I don't, any of that.

[1082] So the bars for me was like my, like, dream.

[1083] That's the dream.

[1084] The dream product is to make shampoo and conditioner bars cool.

[1085] I love that.

[1086] People to know that you can, like, use a product that, you know, we're all like, oh, less ingredients, more natural.

[1087] I'm like, well, guess what, guys, bars is exactly that.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] Because of the subonification process, a shampoo bar self -preserves.

[1090] That, like, you know, we have to say that there's a shelf life, but realistically, there is no shelf life because it's so, So the shelf life means, like, you know, on my bars, I have a two -year shelf life.

[1091] Two years still.

[1092] Which they're going to last way longer than that.

[1093] But we say two years because I want you to know that in two years, you can't expect it to smell like lavender.

[1094] Right, right.

[1095] As strong as it did when you bought it.

[1096] That's just not realistic.

[1097] Right.

[1098] It's not.

[1099] But that soap is still going to work.

[1100] But the soap is still going to work.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] That's the thing.

[1103] It's pretty cool.

[1104] It's like you're not going to get the smell, but you will get.

[1105] the benefits, but, you know, it's still not what you bought it for.

[1106] So, you know, I just with the line, because I have so much control over everything, I, like, my FAQs are, I, and I'm constantly adding to it, I'm like, somebody asks me a good question.

[1107] I'm like, I'm putting it up on the FAQs.

[1108] I care so much about telling the truth.

[1109] I care so, so, so much about being transparent because I don't.

[1110] don't want anyone to have that feeling of like, oh, this is going to solve this, this problem that I have.

[1111] And it's like, there is no easy solve.

[1112] Yeah.

[1113] And a lot of these issues, it's like you needing to accept the texture that you were born with.

[1114] Right.

[1115] There might not even be a problem.

[1116] It might be like a perceived problem.

[1117] Oh my God.

[1118] So many times.

[1119] I've had girls come to me like my hair.

[1120] It's too, oh, this is the best one, which coming from like you and me, Alex, with our fine -ass hair.

[1121] It's too big.

[1122] I'm like, bitch.

[1123] No such thing.

[1124] But when you have a lot of hair, they're like, yeah, like I'm tired.

[1125] Shampooing my hair is work.

[1126] I have to say, at least having fine hair, it dries fast.

[1127] It don't blow dry it.

[1128] It just dries in the air.

[1129] Well, now I have breathblocks.

[1130] And I'm like, Lord, it takes, I'm like, this is what y 'all have been going through.

[1131] It's so wrong.

[1132] Forever to dry.

[1133] It takes so long.

[1134] Yeah.

[1135] And like obviously.

[1136] You're making me feel a little grateful.

[1137] They, they dry the longest, but it does.

[1138] I love that I'm, I've been on two sides of the coin where I'm like, no hair and now my hair is heavy.

[1139] Mm -hmm.

[1140] I also, you must use a lot of product when you've really thick hair.

[1141] Yeah.

[1142] But here's the thing is you don't need to.

[1143] Because they'll scalp work, right?

[1144] That's what I've learned from Sabs.

[1145] It's all scalp work.

[1146] It's all scalp work.

[1147] You're not supposed to be.

[1148] Especially shampoo.

[1149] Like, let me. like if I can leave the listener with any like gems like you know is stop over shampooing guys you don't need that much especially even if it's sulfate free which all of my formulas are it will still lather you don't need foam basically foam doesn't mean it's clean what it means a lot of the time is it's going to be super dry yeah yeah um But again, that's not mutually, like, you know, it's, that's not always the case.

[1150] Yes.

[1151] I think it's so important for you to take your time and, granted, not when you're in a rush and not when you're a mom of three, like, girl, I know you ain't got no time for this.

[1152] You've got no time for me. But there is a way for you to get what you want out of your products.

[1153] You just have to figure out what the, like, you know, what the problem.

[1154] product is, how you're going to utilize it, because a lot of the time, water is the enemy.

[1155] And I want to be very clear about what I mean by that.

[1156] Water, when you're shampooing and conditioning, going back to the straw analogy, if your hair is a straw, when your straw, like your hair is filled with water, product cannot get in.

[1157] product so you need to ring the water out of your hair step away from the shower step away from the water and wring your hair out and i'm especially if you have thick hair get away from the water like get it wet enough so that like you know the product will spread but get away from the water because the water is filling the cuticle with water and not product so you're shampooing nothing and especially Especially conditioner.

[1158] Conditioner is the number one thing that people are like, you know, immediately my friends, like I have friends with really long hair that are, you know, I've been my clients forever.

[1159] And they're like, girl, you know, like, with their, you know, I'm a jumbo size.

[1160] And you know, like, with their, yeah.

[1161] You know, I'm a jumbo size girl.

[1162] Like, let me know when you have these jumbo sizes.

[1163] I'm like, girl, with my product packaging, et cetera.

[1164] I'm like, those are not coming out for you.

[1165] I'm not a jumbo, girl.

[1166] God damn.

[1167] Shortage.

[1168] Like, it's not good for the environment, girl.

[1169] Like the big pump bottles or something.

[1170] You don't need as much conditioner as you think you do.

[1171] You don't because you're not even allowing the conditioner to get absorbed into your hair.

[1172] You're supposed to like wet, shut it off, shampoo, turn it back on.

[1173] You don't have to shut it off.

[1174] You can leave the water running.

[1175] I don't want you to freeze in there.

[1176] I don't know why I've always done that.

[1177] For some reason.

[1178] Because we were taught in commercials to do that.

[1179] Oh.

[1180] Like when you're buying $3 shampoo, yeah bitch, let the water run.

[1181] Let me in there.

[1182] But if you're buying my $26 shampoo, I want you to get your money's worth I'm a $30 conditioner I remember when I first lived on my own I mean I could only afford like the swap Do they even still make swab shampoo?

[1183] Of course, of course That's an institution Yes And I need a lot of girl You know what I bought But I also wasn't highlighting my hair So it was whatever But also I just I mean but there's a lot of drugstore stuff Listen there's a lot of drugstore stuff That's good like I'm sorry like we can you know people like oh just they're away from the drugstore I'm like that's not true that's just not true it's like we want you to buy something better meaning more expensive so we can put that money in our pockets but you got to talk about this on beautiful that's perfectly fine if you use it correctly um I'm very curious I've got yes go ahead no I'm changing the subject so if you've got something subject okay so something I do want to say is that I've been I don't know very, very many young people, but Kevin and I have been watching, like, college hoops lately, like the college show, all the college games around right now, right?

[1184] Yo, these young girls, they all have braids, are, like, locks, they are, like, they're wearing their hair natural.

[1185] Some of these girls are playing basketball in wigs with acrylics and lashes girl.

[1186] I know.

[1187] I'm like, what?

[1188] I'm like, I live through this.

[1189] Go, girl.

[1190] Like, it ain't for me, but girls know young how to look good.

[1191] But that's not even that girl, but playing basketball, playing full -on college basketball in a wig with acrylics and lashes, bitch.

[1192] That's very impressive.

[1193] It's very impressive.

[1194] What I love is that before sports, like, you know, you weren't allowed to, like, let your femininity shine, you know?

[1195] And, like, even if it, like, you know, basically, like, the assumption that, like, if you're an athlete, you're queer or otherwise, when, like, there is a mix of, both very much and just because you're queer doesn't mean you you don't want acrylics and lashes because I'm here to tell you that I'm extremely queer and I love all that shit or just because you like basketball doesn't mean you can't like wigs and lashes right that's what I mean it's like I'm saying we have always that's what I'm saying yeah yeah we have always had to give up one to have it like it's so weird like we can't be everything which is just not real yeah it's not real nobody is just one thing and it's like a girly girl and only likes The Bachelor and The Bachelor and No Shade I did watch The Black Bachelor, let's be honest I just finished it Yes But like it's like we have to Like we always have to be like Fall into a category And I just love that this new generation Is like fuck out of here Yes I'm gonna wear my nails And I'm gonna fucking hoop you does What's the wig glue also?

[1196] Even more impressive What is the wicklew that they're using?

[1197] You got all this other thing going on.

[1198] I know what it is.

[1199] I mean, that's what I'm saying.

[1200] They're sweating.

[1201] It's like, yeah, I'm very impressed with the state puttedness also.

[1202] Because they don't look crazy at the end.

[1203] Everybody would be looking the same going off the court as they did go on to the court.

[1204] They're just like a little gooey.

[1205] I'm like, ooh, girl, you better go.

[1206] Yes.

[1207] Also, to be young.

[1208] To be young.

[1209] But I was very, like, happily surprised by the amount of natural hair that I saw.

[1210] I was just like, all right, this generation, they are.

[1211] that's awesome because do you know for a little bit?

[1212] The scope of jobs.

[1213] Like there were like fuck your job description.

[1214] I'm a disruptor bitch.

[1215] Yes.

[1216] They make their own jobs.

[1217] They have their own title and they're making more money than us.

[1218] And I'm like, good for y 'all.

[1219] Because we literally made all this shit up.

[1220] All of it up, all the credentials up.

[1221] All of it has been made up.

[1222] I have talked so many times.

[1223] Not on our podcast, but, you know, amongst other professionals about like how unfair the licensing system is in the U .S. and how it is another systematic thing that holds back immigrants and people of color.

[1224] Because, you know, people come from, I had a whole class that I taught in Seattle at beauty school, a woman that came from East Asia and like Cambodia and Thailand.

[1225] and they all had already gone through training that were working in hair and working as estheticians and working in beauty and came here and had to get licensed and, you know, with no money, no nothing.

[1226] And it's like they couldn't even take a test to prove they already have these skills because America doesn't accept anything.

[1227] As if you don't have to pay...

[1228] You accept your money.

[1229] As if you don't have to pay, exactly.

[1230] That's it.

[1231] have to pay to get your green card that should is it is so expensive to become an american that it's people have no idea listen i know someone who got her waxing license just by paying for it i know me too me too i know i know so many white italians yeah that like europeans like that come from the pretty countries that people love that literally bought their licenses Like And it's so infuriating Because I've been to beauty school three time Oh my guys I've got all the licenses I mean that's my own That's my own dumb shit Like went to school then like oh I'm going to Europe to do the shows And then when I came back my school was closed But not You ain't got no hours bitch go back to school The fucking hours talking about the hours It's so true Oh my God the hours Oh and depending on where you're you are in the country like um you know california 1600 see yeah was it here in 1 ,200 here no here's only a thousand but you don't really get the nail care um and the facial like you know like sort of very minimal program exactly um and really you only test on hair um let's in Seattle I took my board there and um I had to do nails I had to do a facial I had to do that damn yeah they ain't playing But you also, they don't have the apprenticeship program like they do in New York, where it, and what's weird is, like, they have apprenticeship, but it means for you to get your license, where apprenticeship here means it's your track to get a chair.

[1232] Oh.

[1233] So you can get a license, and if you have money, which you don't, like most of you don't, you can get a chair at your aunt salon or whatever.

[1234] But, you know, if you want to be in a prominent salon here, you have to assist.

[1235] which is essentially your apprenticeship, you learn how to get a license in hair school Right.

[1236] Dependorship is kind of what mold do you.

[1237] Yes, I assume.

[1238] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1239] Which is pretty cool.

[1240] And I apprenticed as a hairstylist, as a makeup artist.

[1241] And I mean, I took, I mean, I went to Bumble.

[1242] I was educated at Bumble.

[1243] I went to Madeline Cofano in Paris for Ballyage.

[1244] I went to Sussune out classes in London you know I've I mean and countless classes in between at hair shows and like a Cosmoproff and you know like I would and I mean I still I'm always interested in learning more because what's cool about hair and makeup is it's ever changing yeah and there's always a new product and a new way to do something and you know what's it's like hip.

[1245] And because now we have this like blogging culture, things are moving much more fast.

[1246] Yeah.

[1247] You know?

[1248] It's like, okay, now it's baby lights, which I'm like, guys, it's a fucking highlight.

[1249] It's a foil highlight.

[1250] Like we've been doing this forever.

[1251] All you're doing is much, much, much, much skinnier sections.

[1252] I guess it's also just a marketing ploy of like, yeah, this new way.

[1253] Come get them done.

[1254] Well, exactly.

[1255] And then come take a class and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[1256] Which I've been, because it's the new trend.

[1257] Yes.

[1258] And I've been noticing that also.

[1259] It gets certified, which nobody cares.

[1260] Yes, yes.

[1261] The same thing in aesthetics.

[1262] The same thing.

[1263] I saw make certifications.

[1264] They don't even listen.

[1265] They don't matter.

[1266] Should we do a question?

[1267] So I've been noticing a natural hair Instagram account.

[1268] and YouTube channels that there's been a backlash against shay butter and oils for your hair.

[1269] Sometimes it's only certain oils like Hoba and Blackcaster oil and other times it's just an outright ban on oils.

[1270] Is this backlash based on facts?

[1271] Is it just a...

[1272] Help us to doubt.

[1273] Oh, my God.

[1274] Jess, I love you, first of all.

[1275] I love you and you have the best questions.

[1276] Jess, do not believe this bullshit hype and these bloggers...

[1277] Don't believe bloggers.

[1278] Sit the fuck down.

[1279] Like, please, stop.

[1280] Oils are amazing.

[1281] Hoba is a carrier oil.

[1282] It is a magical fucking oil.

[1283] And here's why.

[1284] It mimics her natural fucking oils.

[1285] Why would anyone put in it?

[1286] It is the same pH as your hair, skin, and nails, which means that your body can absorb it and knows exactly what to do with it.

[1287] So sit all the way the fuck down.

[1288] A bunch of dummies.

[1289] A hoaxi is a carrier oil that I, I use a lot.

[1290] And I love it.

[1291] It's a great oil.

[1292] It's a great oil.

[1293] It's a great oil.

[1294] Also amazing.

[1295] Should be mixed.

[1296] Shouldn't be applied on its own.

[1297] It's quite heavy.

[1298] But it depends on your hair type.

[1299] If you're 4C, you can fuck with black castor oil and be fine.

[1300] But my fucking 3A ass cannot.

[1301] I cannot.

[1302] You know, the thing is like KVuck as well is incredible.

[1303] It's an incredible additive that I also use in my formulations.

[1304] should it be used on its own on your body go for a bitch it's major on your hair maybe not it just depends on your hair type i really like really really do not like cancel culture i think that some people need to be a little more kind and recognize that these are hardworking individuals that may have more credentials than they do when they start canceling things.

[1305] I would like to know whose hair you're doing.

[1306] Yes.

[1307] And how long you've been doing, you know, said hair while you're canceling a bracket of incredible things that occur in nature that are great for hair, skin, and nails.

[1308] But I will say, like, no, there are no bans on any oils.

[1309] I think the one that I would say that is constantly recommended as an oil, to be used on its own incorrectly is coconut oil.

[1310] Yes.

[1311] The law is like, and not even the law.

[1312] It's such a trend for a while.

[1313] Yes.

[1314] Coconut oil is amazing.

[1315] She is amazing, but it is way too rich.

[1316] If you can cook with it, it's too rich for your hair on its own.

[1317] Mm. That's a good rule.

[1318] It's too rich.

[1319] That's a really good rule.

[1320] Some people can handle it.

[1321] Like I said, there are some textures.

[1322] Like people, there was a model that I worked with for many years.

[1323] She's from Holland, absolutely gorgeous, white, covered in freckles.

[1324] She could use coconut oil all over her skin and never break out.

[1325] That is a genetic thing.

[1326] I have really good skin.

[1327] If I use coconut oil all over my face, I will break out.

[1328] It is too heavy for me. So like I said, I can't even say that it's across the board that you can't use it, But I will say that what I have found over the 20 years that I've been touching human beings for a living, that coconut oil is best used as an additive oil, not a carrier oil, not a base oil, not something that you use on its own.

[1329] But yes, slather that shit all over your body, use it as loob, like, it's great.

[1330] It's great.

[1331] Use it as loo.

[1332] Yeah, I'm like, there you go.

[1333] She's not going to hurt your cuddie.

[1334] You want to close this out with a segment?

[1335] You got something for us?

[1336] If you don't have one, I have one.

[1337] I definitely want to hear yours.

[1338] I did, and I don't know where I put it.

[1339] I thought I left a note.

[1340] I thought of it as we were talking.

[1341] Did you read my?

[1342] Oh, good, good, good.

[1343] All right, great.

[1344] Okay.

[1345] But I'm going to go, okay, because it has to do with makeup.

[1346] It's so weird.

[1347] You guys are probably just going to be like, it was weirdo.

[1348] That's my favorite.

[1349] So when I first moved to Bushwick, to Brooklyn, to Bushwick, I was 19.

[1350] And I worked friend desk at a spa, but I was like, I need to make more money.

[1351] And so I was really into, at this point, I hadn't decided I was going to go to Estetician school yet.

[1352] But I knew that I loved beauty shit.

[1353] Right.

[1354] young girls do.

[1355] You're like, make myself prettier, done.

[1356] And I also had actually gone to see a cosmetology school in like Ridgewood.

[1357] Oh, nice.

[1358] I was thinking of doing hair.

[1359] It wasn't something I was passionate about.

[1360] It was just like, I need to think of career and I like beauty stuff, you know?

[1361] Yeah, yeah.

[1362] Anyway, when on the interview, I realized like I didn't know what I'd do about the money for it.

[1363] Anyway, put that on the back burner.

[1364] And I was like, I know what I'll do.

[1365] I put an ad on Craigslist being like, I, do you need help at the drugstore picking out your cosmetics?

[1366] I can guide you.

[1367] I love this idea.

[1368] Except I never actually, people did contact me. And then my boyfriend at the time was like, I don't think that's a good idea to meet strangers of Craigslist.

[1369] And he freaked me out, so I wound up not doing it.

[1370] What was your plan of charging people?

[1371] Oh, that I would charge them.

[1372] I think it was like a $25 flat fee.

[1373] for me to help them pick out the proper colors because I was so obsessed I was on this website called makeup alley I loved this Oh my God makeup alley I knew I remember makeup alley Yeah and I feel like I really had gotten a good grasp of just like She was one of the first Like makeup blogs Yes And so I really feel like I knew a good amount about drugstore cosmetic Yeah And I was like I could help someone And there were probably so many people Don't know what the fuck they're doing So anyway It never worked out Did you ever?

[1374] I'm older now.

[1375] Don't meet strangers off the internet.

[1376] It's never a good idea, even in a public place.

[1377] Fair, fair.

[1378] I mean, clearly I sounded young and naive.

[1379] I'm sure that ad was weird.

[1380] I would need to know, I need to hear the ad, first of all.

[1381] Oh, my God, I love that.

[1382] I don't think this is a terrible idea.

[1383] I'm not going to lie.

[1384] Like, I don't know if that's a true story.

[1385] Don't meet people off.

[1386] People are doing that right now, I'm sure.

[1387] Come meet me, like, some kind of gigs.

[1388] I'll meet you at, uh, Dwayne, well, maybe pre -pendemic.

[1389] I'll meet you at Dwayne Reed and we'll walk together and I'll pick, help you pick things out.

[1390] Isn't that basically what we're doing in the podcast?

[1391] I mean, kind of.

[1392] It's a great idea.

[1393] It seemed like a good idea.

[1394] I mean, it's a great idea.

[1395] I mean, I think maybe.

[1396] The internet back then wasn't quite the same.

[1397] Like, there wasn't so much checks and balances.

[1398] It was Craigslist.

[1399] Whatever.

[1400] I don't think it was a terrible idea, Alex.

[1401] I think that you were on to something.

[1402] I think that was your little entrepreneurial gene.

[1403] Honestly, I think it was awesome.

[1404] I am mad that I didn't think to do that.

[1405] Right?

[1406] Because I would do.

[1407] I do my like money grab like when I was broke or like I really needed to like you know like help help someone like get something or like myself or you know whatever like I would do $50 waves so basically you come with your hair and your hair already stretched and I will throw it in and partial's not full because that's like too much like cutting and whatnot but I would do your like with leave out so basically a weave with leave out.

[1408] So basically a weave with leave out.

[1409] which means for Alex.

[1410] So this is left out so that they can do whatever part.

[1411] So it lays nicely.

[1412] Got it.

[1413] And it was, A, a way for me to practice weaving when I was doing a lot of white hair.

[1414] And I didn't want to, like, you know, I wanted to stay strong.

[1415] And it was, like, almost like, not, it was a way for me to, like, feel, like, stay connected to black hair.

[1416] Girl, I definitely would have entered this fucking Craigslist ad in 2004.

[1417] Like, never would have come to me at the salon.

[1418] Got to get their hair done by me for nothing.

[1419] That's like what I normally get tipped.

[1420] Yes.

[1421] That's my normal, like normally what I get tipped.

[1422] But what a good little side thing.

[1423] And it helped you.

[1424] Oh my God, totally.

[1425] And it was like cash.

[1426] And the thing is I was doing it so often.

[1427] so fast and I remember like I did a weave and I also it was like the the hair was the right like everything collided yeah but like I did a weave in the shortest amount of time than I ever did I did a weave in an hour and a half and I was like oh my god that's amazing yeah you like did it like the whole braid down and sewed all the hair in and I'm not fast like that's the thing is I'm not fast like I know plenty of black hairdressers that like bitch I could do it in an hour.

[1428] But that's not me. I've never been like super fast because I'm like so like oh I'm looking and I'm checking and I'm very like A type and yeah no it was so it was such a great side hustle I love it.

[1429] Do you have one too?

[1430] I do I didn't know then I do I've got and I didn't know them but I'm I'm more than I know though I have plenty of those we can do you whatever do you want one okay you want to throw one No no you give me one and I'll give you one Okay, so this is, um, okay, so I'm kind of happy to tell this story because I think that it's, like, appropriate for, like, we're using this episode for the launch of, like, being on the exactly right network.

[1431] So.

[1432] Yeah, for exactly right.

[1433] So Alex and I got, um, we got an email, like, from Danielle, one of the executive producers in September saying that they want to be on the show.

[1434] And it was so, like, do you know, we'd been working towards this goal for.

[1435] a long time but like I emailed them back in March it was just so out of the blue and this is like you know my favorite murder is one of my favorite podcast so it was a little unbelievable not unbelievable but yeah it was a little unbelievable just like is this like really happening what's going on da -da -da and so we set up a phone call to like just get on the phone with Karen and Georgia and to like meet everybody and Alex and I are super excited and we're really nervous and so like the day of the phone call comes and it's a Google hang We get the calendar invitation.

[1436] But we're just like, this is so weird.

[1437] Like, why is this, like, why are we dialing in?

[1438] It's like a conference call?

[1439] Like, this doesn't make any sense.

[1440] Come to find out when you leave a little bit.

[1441] Stop, stop taking over my story.

[1442] I know.

[1443] Alex, let her have her.

[1444] And this is because it's so funny that it made me cry when she came to this realization.

[1445] First of all, I love that you're trying to believe me for this, because you didn't even realize the mistake until I pointed it out to you.

[1446] This is both of our dumb asses.

[1447] Okay, I only blamed it a new based on our last call.

[1448] Okay.

[1449] So, we take this call and we're on the phone with them.

[1450] And the whole time Alex and I are looking at each other, like, this is so weird.

[1451] Like, why aren't we video conferencing?

[1452] It's very hard to talk to three people on a call.

[1453] Yes, and we're like, everybody in the world is fucking Zoom.

[1454] Guys, that's how it always used to be conference call.

[1455] I know.

[1456] What a weird concept.

[1457] So we're thinking, okay, we know that they're like Gen Xers.

[1458] Maybe they're just like, fuck these hoes.

[1459] They don't need to see us.

[1460] Like, we just need to talk on the phone.

[1461] Or they thought that we, like, record it, maybe.

[1462] Like something, I don't know.

[1463] But because of this, the whole time that we're going through this process of signing with them, because it took so long, I'm starting to talk myself out of it.

[1464] I'm like, yo, this was an elaborate hoax.

[1465] Y 'all never saw these bitches.

[1466] She convinced me, it was a hoax.

[1467] You were just on the phone with them.

[1468] For like a very short span of time.

[1469] She had me convinced that there was a chance that we were being scammed.

[1470] I really believed this for a little bit because that was like, if this was today's time, like who doesn't video conference?

[1471] Who doesn't Zoom?

[1472] right?

[1473] You had me convinced.

[1474] Yo, so our most recent, listen, hold on a second.

[1475] So our most, long story short is obviously we end up signing, everything's fine.

[1476] For our first onboarding call, the same thing happens, right?

[1477] The Zoom, the Google Calendar invitation comes in.

[1478] Except we're separate this time.

[1479] But this time we're separate.

[1480] And I'm on there with video, and I'm like, stop, stop.

[1481] Stop.

[1482] Long story short is we didn't know that if you just open up Google hangs, it's automatically on video.

[1483] A video.

[1484] I was like, wait, guys, you realize that you had the option.

[1485] When she refers to herself as an auntie people that aren't doing this time, so hard not to laugh when we were in that call because I was like, where is she had?

[1486] I'm like, oh, she must have turned her camera on.

[1487] And then I'm like, no, she doesn't know.

[1488] Oh, my God, I would have died.

[1489] I would have been like, hold on because grandma isn't she can't get her camera.

[1490] Wait, but when she then realized what happened last time, I had tears.

[1491] Yo, when we got off that phone, and I realized what the fuck happened that they were on the video and we were the assholes who were calling in on the first call, definitely.

[1492] Too weird.

[1493] They were like, yeah, so I guess podcast is all they can do.

[1494] And these ladies really don't want to be seen, huh?

[1495] Why didn't they say anything, that's where polite lit, the politeness.

[1496] But now that I think about it, I could hear like, like I could hear in their voices that they're like, uh, this is Danielle talking, so.

[1497] Oh, my God.

[1498] Oh, no. Sorry, I tried talking about.

[1499] We're sorry, guys.

[1500] It's so good.

[1501] It's so funny.

[1502] Oh, my God.

[1503] So, it didn't know then, but I'm older now.

[1504] I guess video conferencing, just figure out how to use it.

[1505] Just always assume it's probably video.

[1506] Just figure out how to use it before you try and jump on.

[1507] Yes.

[1508] Yes.

[1509] Practice.

[1510] Oh, not surprising.

[1511] We've been chatting for almost two hours.

[1512] I know.

[1513] Or an hour and 40 minutes.

[1514] We do that.

[1515] I know.

[1516] How does that happen?

[1517] I know.

[1518] Like, we're definitely going to have to edit this down.

[1519] Well, the first 30 minutes was stabs yelling at me about my hair.

[1520] Okay.

[1521] So it's like perfect.

[1522] We can remove that.

[1523] Exactly an hour in 10 minutes or so.

[1524] Wait, do you have a segment?

[1525] Did you want to add something?

[1526] Or should we wrap with auntieisms?

[1527] Yeah, I think auntieisms is great.

[1528] Let's do it.

[1529] I have plenty, but I can save them for our episode.

[1530] Okay.

[1531] Save them for episode for a beauty squad.

[1532] These were some good.

[1533] I think we had good ones.

[1534] These were good.

[1535] Yeah.

[1536] So Sabs, tell everybody where they can find you, where they can support Natural by Sabs, where they can buy all your product.

[1537] Yes.

[1538] So if you go to www.

[1539] n -t -r -l -L -S -A -B -S -A -B -S -A -B -S -A -B -S -A -B -S -com, you can check out my entire range of shams.

[1540] and conditioning products, and my lotion bars, my lip balms, the hair oil that is so magical that Alex doesn't look like trash.

[1541] I love the hair oil.

[1542] You can use it for everything.

[1543] I used in my cuticles last night.

[1544] Yeah, exactly.

[1545] She's a multi -use board.

[1546] It's amazing.

[1547] And you can use the coupon code, sorry, coupon code, true beauty, Brooklyn, for 15 % off your first order.

[1548] Yeah, yeah.

[1549] That's awesome.

[1550] That's awesome.

[1551] And yes, please follow us on Instagram at Natural by Sabs.

[1552] We'll make sure to post this with the link on our IG.

[1553] And I just truly appreciate you guys taking the time to talk to me about my little brand.

[1554] Yeah.

[1555] And, dude, Sabs is with us once a month.

[1556] So she's here to listen to all of your listener.

[1557] Yes.

[1558] Right in any beauty questions.

[1559] If you have any beauty questions on.

[1560] Especially hair and makeup.

[1561] Talked mostly about like me, but like I love answering.

[1562] your questions regarding hair and makeup and anything silly like you know you use this product when you were young and you just want to tell us about it so we talk about that shit yes we love that yeah i miss those so please feel free to email us at true beauty brooklyn podcast at gmail .com that's it that's it send it to our IG and we will 100 % get to it because we will answer all those questions y 'all yes yes love it love it love it sobs we love it you love you so much thank you love you love you and we i mean me and my germanaut twins oh hey guys hey we hope that you loved that episode with sabs also alex has something that she'd like to say real god okay so during the intro i said see ya on the flip side i've I've never said that in my life.

[1563] I don't know where it came from.

[1564] I don't know why I said it.

[1565] We were just a little bit nervous.

[1566] I started talking in a British accent.

[1567] You said, see you on the flip side.

[1568] I feel like that's like a 90s thing.

[1569] I don't know.

[1570] We both aren't really nervous because here we are on the exactly right network.

[1571] And it's exciting.

[1572] It's exciting.

[1573] We're just meeting you guys.

[1574] Do you like us?

[1575] We really want you to like us.

[1576] Oh my God.

[1577] Well, you might not like me now because you're like, see on the flip side.

[1578] You're like, who's this whiny voice and see me on the phone?

[1579] I don't know if it's like a...

[1580] I have to find out where that came from.

[1581] I like it, though.

[1582] I like that it was...

[1583] Like, why was it in my brain?

[1584] Because that was like 12 -year -old you trying to like be cool.

[1585] Do you know what I mean?

[1586] And like...

[1587] Yeah.

[1588] Some like old upperclassmen.

[1589] Yeah, some upperclassmen somehow was like, What's up, Shapiro?

[1590] And you're like, see on the upside.

[1591] Curious.

[1592] Yeah.

[1593] But I said it, when we listened back to the recording, I said it so, like, flawlessly.

[1594] You said it great.

[1595] You said it's super casually.

[1596] Maybe I should.

[1597] Keep that in my.

[1598] Lipit for things to say.

[1599] All right.

[1600] But I just wanted to address that.

[1601] Yes.

[1602] I love that.

[1603] Anyway, I hope you loved that interview with Sabs.

[1604] Yeah, I thought that was a lot of fun.

[1605] Sabs is the sweetest and she's so funny because, I mean, Sabs is from the Bronx through and through, and she's definitely hard, but, like, I love to see the soft moments when it's just like the three of us, and she can kind of be herself a little bit more and be super sweet.

[1606] Just the three of us and all of you.

[1607] And all of you guys now.

[1608] all of our new best friends yay um so anyway guys we okay here's the big ask we need to hear from you we live to talk but more so is we live to laugh we fucking love to laugh we try to share all of our sort of like cringiest worst moments um on our glow up from age 12 to today 35 bitch And we want to do it because it's, it just makes everybody seem more normal, right?

[1609] And I think that just hilarities overall are great.

[1610] So send us your milk with your dinner.

[1611] Send us your, I didn't know them, but I'm older now.

[1612] But more equally as important, as important, send us your questions.

[1613] Please, please.

[1614] We are here for you guys.

[1615] We love skin care.

[1616] We love beauty.

[1617] We love sharing all of our secrets.

[1618] And here's the biggest secret.

[1619] Alex and I were talking about this before.

[1620] is the biggest secret in beauty, I think, is that you need somebody who knows more than you to tell you that you fucking up.

[1621] All of our greatest moments, I think, in like leveling up has come.

[1622] First, it was Christine Dow.

[1623] Shout out to Christine Dow, 18 years old.

[1624] She said, bitch, stop tweezing your eyebrows.

[1625] Just stop pulling all the hairs out of your face.

[1626] And the next moment, Alex and I realized is when we took, you know, these photos for the exactly right network.

[1627] And, of course, we went to our friend, Sabs, who did our hair and makeup and her husband's this incredible photographer and we looked at ourselves and we looked beautiful but we looks like the most beautiful versions of ourselves and we're like I don't know is this too much bitch is not too much our friend Sabrina knew because she works with celebrity she works on set she said you it's just an aesthetic it's an aesthetic that we don't have because we are normies and you just need somebody to help you level up and we want to be that person for you I tell you that tangents I took you found that tangent lane with me because we want to be your beauty besties and sometimes you need somebody who just like knows a little bit more than you do about skin care about eyebrows about taking pictures about your hair about growing it out about cutting it off whatever send us your letters send us all of your questions we're here for you we can't wait to answer them where can they send them Alex true beauty broken podcast at gmail .com email us at the true beauty brooklyn podcast podcast at gmail .com also you can dm us on instagram at true beauty brooklyn podcast um what else can they do oh my god you guys can rate review and subscribe you can rate review subscribe rate review subscribe we would really appreciate it we would love that and you can tell your mama you can tell your cousin you can tell your friend you can listen to our back catalog which is not exactly right don't judge us because our audio wasn't great at the beginning it took us a while to figure out microphones don't judge us but we loved you guys enough it gets better as you can hear but we had so much to fucking say we were just like let's just talk and we'll figure out the rest later and bitch here we are and here we are so we love you guys so much write us tell us what you think tell us about your problems tell us about your man Tell us about your lady.

[1628] Tell us about all the problems.

[1629] Tell us about everything.

[1630] We'll do our best to help you guys.

[1631] Yeah.

[1632] That's it, true beauties.

[1633] We love you guys.

[1634] Bye.

[1635] Bye.

[1636] See you next time.

[1637] This has been a COC BK production.

[1638] Produced by us, Elizabeth Taylor, and Alex Shapiro.

[1639] Our engineer is Bart Tripoli.

[1640] Our theme music composer is Zebrasonic.

[1641] Our artwork is by Garrett Ross.

[1642] Our photos, hair, and makeup are by Sabrina and Joe Holdsworth.

[1643] If you're an advertiser interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll .com.

[1644] For more information, go to exactly rightmedia .com.