#1411 - Robert Downey Jr.

[0] boom so we're talking about losing eyesight yes you you actually take comfort in the fact that your eyesight is starting to dwindle you want to chase it at first i was like i'm fine then i'm 42 then it's like let's try some ones then it's one two fives then it's one five's well you're on now uh i stop because i have so many fucking glasses some of them are ones some of them are two fives it's like it's like uh you know what i mean yeah i do know what you mean but what i appreciate is you know where you're at by what you're able to retain if you fight for it and the things that are going no matter what you do now I've heard there's some uh Israeli guy who's got this app probably from Laird got this app and you do it and you get your eyesight back and sometimes it's about I don't need to try to use something to hold on to everything I want to pick the five or seven things that I definitely want to hold on to and I want to watch the rest of it go in and out with the tides.

[1] I agree with that in some ways, but if there was a real thing where you could get your eyesight back, I would definitely be on that.

[2] I don't think there is a real thing.

[3] Lasix?

[4] This is not real.

[5] The problem.

[6] Well, Lasix, there's several problems.

[7] You can get it if you have problems with your vision, but we have macular degeneration that's coming from age.

[8] Age -related macular degeneration.

[9] Lasix doesn't really fix that.

[10] But I know people who were wearing glasses and then got Lasix and they don't wear glasses anymore.

[11] That's a fact.

[12] But also sometimes they get one eye to close up and one eye for distance.

[13] It's even more fun.

[14] Half the eye exams I've gotten wind up fucking me. Two weeks later, you're like, these don't work.

[15] Yeah.

[16] What about the loss of a sense that you're accustomed to being fine annoys you?

[17] What about it?

[18] Yeah.

[19] I like being able to see things.

[20] Read labels in particular.

[21] Like, how many of these fuckers are I supposed to take?

[22] You know, and what's in here?

[23] Yes.

[24] You know, like how many milligrams?

[25] What does that say?

[26] And you doing this shit?

[27] But it's also funny to go up to like a little Lutron pad and have to go.

[28] Like that to me, I just, it's a gas.

[29] Really?

[30] Except the things you cannot change.

[31] Now, if someone comes in and says, Joe, Bob, I got it.

[32] We're done.

[33] Come over here.

[34] It's easy or it's a supplement or do this for two weeks or stop doing this, this, this and this.

[35] Then there's a tradeoff.

[36] Yes.

[37] Well, I'm down for anything.

[38] that actually works to make your eyesight come back.

[39] But I have heard of nothing.

[40] Everybody that I've heard of that's got something.

[41] This might be our project then.

[42] Because you care and I don't, so we have a nice balance.

[43] There's a guy named David Sinclair that I talked to.

[44] He's a professor at Harvard.

[45] Is it MIT?

[46] Where the fuck is he?

[47] Harvard.

[48] They're doing some work with people that have serious eye diseases and serious injuries, and they're actually injecting some form of bacteria that has been encoded with some miracle cure for degeneration and they can detach retinas fix things and incredible yeah so they're working on some stuff yeah so maybe in the future you won't have twos and ones and 1 .5s and yeah what am I got one injection I have alighted to greener pastures I'm sure there's going to be other issues and hurdles that you're going to go eyesight I don't know fucking time that we've got real shit going on here yeah I'm sure too I'm concerned about that do you that thing that you're wearing around your neck yes being as you are obviously known as being Iron Man. Are you concerned with wearing a large thing in the exact same spot?

[49] Did you ever think of that?

[50] Life is funny, because I was doing this before I ever got fitted for the RT.

[51] So it was more of art -imitating oddball stuff I was doing anyway.

[52] Oh, really?

[53] Yeah.

[54] Oh.

[55] Well, but Iron Man, it's even more interesting because maybe you were born to be Iron Man, because Iron Man obviously had that from the comic books.

[56] loosely prearranged destiny and what's incredible is how far afield you can go from it and still find your way back yeah well there's been it's the whole superhero genre thing is so interesting to me because there's so many reboots and there's so many like how many fucking Spider -Man's have been how many hulks have they been there's only one Iron Man though you got that thus far what yours is it get the fuck out of here you're Iron Man man It's just like, certain dudes just own a role.

[57] And if anybody else tried to be Iron Man, we'd be like, well, interestingly enough, East Coaster, a dad of some renown, very different.

[58] My dad was kind of an underground filmmaker, Auteur Maverick.

[59] I grew up definitely being Bob Downey's senior's kid.

[60] spent time on Long Island which is I think where Tony was raised yeah but when when Stan Lee was really thinking that through he it was the Vietnam era and he was thinking about the military industrial complex he was thinking about how about if I can throw a little bit of not politics in here but karma and he gets shrapnel by the own thing and it becomes you know so and then of course There was the whole demon in the bottle.

[61] I think he was the first superhero whoever had the, you know, almost like hang up his jersey because he was hammered.

[62] So, I mean, yeah, there was obviously, but again, once something goes your way, you can draw all the parallels you want.

[63] You can call it destiny.

[64] But it was, it was something that I definitely felt drawn to and I definitely fought for.

[65] And looking back on it, I go, why was I fighting for that?

[66] Because it turned out to be a pretty special thing.

[67] Wow, it was an amazing thing.

[68] I mean, you embodied it in a very strange way.

[69] I mean, it's inexorable at this point.

[70] You, you know, which is why I thought it was cool that you're going to do Dr. Doolittle because I love the fact, like, I'm a fan of your work.

[71] You've done a lot of great stuff.

[72] Likewise.

[73] And you, you doing Dr. Doolittle is like a cool, it's, I want to say you're not taking yourself seriously, but you're taking a risk.

[74] Trust that I'm not.

[75] But you're taking, I mean, this is a. a fun kids movie about a guy who talks to animals you know I mean that's a great break for because like if you're Iron Man like there's certain people that for whatever reason become a role and that is it that's what we will accept you are that guy and you're not doing that you're you're able to through your talent and through your ability to take chances you're able to be a bunch of different things as well as be the Iron Man yeah I mean, don't we, I don't know, if I'm noticing anything now, it's that it's that we need to shift and we need new challenges.

[76] And just like MMA and society and politics, things are moving and morphing in the information age is making things so, everything's learning and growing from everything so quickly and improving or disproving or discounting whatever's happening next.

[77] But for me, I heard that this was on the table.

[78] My missus, who's my creative partner in all things, said Steve Gagan.

[79] I was like, I know Steve Gagin, Siriana.

[80] Really?

[81] What did he do?

[82] He wrote, wow, I like, that's a big turn for him.

[83] Yeah.

[84] And then I said, but why do I want to?

[85] And I looked out, and we live on a rescue farm.

[86] We have alpacas and goats and cuny -cuni pigs.

[87] And, you know, it's just crazy.

[88] And I was like, okay, same way I did with Iron Man a little bit.

[89] I was like, all right, there's something here.

[90] And then before I signed on, I was just Googling like weirdest Welsh doctor.

[91] I just want to think of, I don't want to just do another English accent.

[92] So there's this guy, William Price, who's a nutty Welsh doctor.

[93] He was a neo -Druidist.

[94] He was someone who believed like we could communicate with all nature and all that stuff.

[95] So I sent a picture of this wild -looking guy wearing like a solid -looking guy.

[96] suit with stars on it and like a staff in his hand i sent that to gagan he goes that looks right to me i was like great let's do this movie and literally that's it it's always it you know what i mean it's always that thing of you click and you go here's my here's here's my sense what do you think and then the other the gal or the guy says yeah let's lean into that and then you go but do this and that hey well you give me some of this and you go yeah and all of a sudden you're in a synergy it's like a good interview like a good fight like a good dinner it just kind of happens the gentleman right there that's a crazy look yeah to me i just thought that's can do a little be like that he goes does he have to be that way the whole way through i go no no no when they find him he's a recluse and then the animals like clean him up and then he looks less unhandsome or where what he less weird for the kids for the rest of the movie but let's find him like that this this concept of things just sort of falling into place.

[97] I'm a big believer in that too.

[98] What is that, though?

[99] Is that you getting out of your own way?

[100] Like, what is that?

[101] Isn't that 70 % of it?

[102] Yeah.

[103] Yeah.

[104] I'd say it's 70 % maintenance of what can I do to do my part to stay out of the way.

[105] And then the other part, I always think of it as like this little super thin, invisible thread.

[106] But you can feel the tug and And you just kind of, you have to be really gentle and you have to pause when agitated and you have to go for it when you're going to like, there's four walls in here, which one has the map behind it.

[107] You, it's that one.

[108] And you knock down the wall and it's there, you know.

[109] Yeah, what is that, though?

[110] Synchronicity, intuition.

[111] But labeling it is very dangerous because it's so filled with Wu.

[112] So it's, you know, there's so many people that are hucksters that have, like, made a career out of sort of like labeling it and defining it or teaching you how to get to it.

[113] It's great because it's the commodity that you can't capitalize on, and yet if you don't show proof of its existence, you can't even, you shouldn't even be qualified to speak on it.

[114] I don't know.

[115] It's the big I don't know.

[116] But when it happens, whether it happens with love or with friendship or with a career or with a path you're taking, you just know while there's a smile, there's an inner smile.

[117] Yeah, this is it.

[118] Well put.

[119] I found it.

[120] This is it.

[121] I'm supposed to be doing this.

[122] Here we go.

[123] Here we go.

[124] Yeah.

[125] And I really feel it's so funny at this point in my life and being, you know, kind of middle age and all that.

[126] Well, I know I'm going to fly around the world.

[127] I'm going to sell some soap.

[128] And I know I have a new project and I know I've just retired my jersey on this 12 -year journey I've been on.

[129] And how do I want to start?

[130] And it came up.

[131] How would you like it?

[132] I go, yes, that's exactly what I'm going to do.

[133] I'm going to go have the Joe Roe.

[134] can experience and and kick off this year and this season and this new chapter by doing what I love, which is an interview, is we're looking at each other and there's a give and take.

[135] Is the door to Iron Man totally closed?

[136] Because I don't believe it is.

[137] Oh.

[138] You guys can go through time now.

[139] You can go.

[140] There's, there was, you know, you already opened up that door.

[141] Let me ask you the question.

[142] If I pick the jersey back up and put it on, wouldn't you feel a little bit like, oh, crap?

[143] No. No. Oh.

[144] Here's what.

[145] Here's what I think.

[146] They go through a few semi -luckluster Avengers movies without you.

[147] Ready for this?

[148] I'm ready.

[149] Here's a scene.

[150] There's a moment where the world's fate is at stake, and they realize they need a super genius.

[151] And then they figure out how to restart that time machine.

[152] Great.

[153] Come on, man. The audience sees you when you step out of that thing?

[154] Is this your, and you want a little arc on it, too?

[155] Because if this is your idea, then you've got to show up for it, too.

[156] I'll do it.

[157] I'll show up.

[158] What do I have to do?

[159] I don't know.

[160] I'll do whatever I have to do.

[161] We all have to do whatever.

[162] I'll hold the thing.

[163] Hold the clap thing.

[164] Does that?

[165] Do they still have that?

[166] They do.

[167] It's digital.

[168] I'll hold that digital thing.

[169] I'll do it.

[170] But the way people would freak out if you came back, come up, man. Think about it.

[171] Take a few years off.

[172] Do you do a few Dr. Doolittle's, a couple more Sherlock Holmes.

[173] You know, it's interesting watching Eddie Murphy in this last.

[174] last little period of time.

[175] And I was talking to Colin Jost last night who got to sit next to him at the Golden Globes and who was there and, you know, on the show and writing for him with him.

[176] When he hosted recently, and I go, it's just incredible.

[177] Our culture never encourages taking a break, never encourages saying, don't chase that thing because you've got it in your hands and and and I love the idea that if you're if you're good at what you do then it's not about time it's about it doesn't matter when you decide to pick up the mantle again it's just about but it's scary isn't it could you imagine like if they just say hey joe just don't do the show for four years and then come back and do it again you'd be like it's a lifetime who knows what's going Yeah.

[178] Well, with Eddie, what's interesting is he was arguably the greatest of his era and just stopped.

[179] just stopped for 30 years and no one does that no one who's that good and then when you see him I don't know if you ever saw him he received some award and he was on a panel you know and sitting in front podium rather and he was talking about Bill Cosby and he was doing this routine about them taking away Bill Cosby's awards and it was fucking brilliant and the timing was so good and all of us comics were just sitting there going he could do it tomorrow he could just get up there tomorrow and he'd be fucking murdering yes and but it would be different it'd be different he's a different human you know this is one of the more interesting things about it it's him talking about some of the more homophobic stuff that he did in the past now it makes him cringe and he just can't believe he was that person but he was when he did delirious I think he was like 22 or something crazy like that which is just bonkers that he was that good anyway I've been thinking about him lately in relation to a bunch of things but also just that particularly nowadays giving yourself permission to not have to jump because you know strike the iron's hot all that stuff and maybe it's just as a bit of an anxiety to the times which i remember too speaking of past generations i remember grown up 1974 nixon's black and white tv getting impeached my dad and his buddies are whooping it up but they're still pissed and I'm going like wow it's it's not worse or or better it's different but now it's on us yeah so there's a bit of an urgency and that that whole thing and just being able to say like so to answer your question to me starting up again is off the table I feel I've done all I could with that character there'd have to be a super compelling argument and a series of events that that made it obvious to it but The other thing is, I want to do other stuff.

[180] Right, of course.

[181] Yeah, of course.

[182] You know, what you're talking about, about Nixon and people get, people can lose themselves in current events.

[183] And what I mean by that, like, it doesn't necessarily completely, your life is more than what's going on in Washington.

[184] You know, Hunter Thompson talked about that when he was running for sheriff in Aspen.

[185] He was talking about how local politics, like your neighborhood, that's real.

[186] This actually can affect your life.

[187] Like, what's going on in Washington?

[188] question, how much does that affect your day -to -day existence?

[189] It's very little.

[190] But for some people, it becomes an enormous portion of the real state of their mind.

[191] It takes over most of their day -to -day consciousness, where they're consumed with it.

[192] And it becomes a thing they're cheering for or they're rooting against.

[193] And then, you know, your life revolves on something that you have very little power over.

[194] Teams, turf wars.

[195] Yeah.

[196] Interests.

[197] Think globally, act locally.

[198] Yes.

[199] I mean, it's a beautiful statement.

[200] It really is.

[201] It's one of those cliches that you don't even think about, but then...

[202] I didn't know that was Hunter in that picture out there.

[203] To me, it looked like Joe Walsh.

[204] Could as he easily fit Joe Walsh?

[205] I mean, he moved to Colorado, too.

[206] Oh, wow.

[207] Yeah, the Rocky Mountain Way.

[208] Oh, damn if he didn't.

[209] Yeah.

[210] He once told me, I'll speak out of school.

[211] He said, no. Tony, you should just watch TV for a year, bro.

[212] I was like, thanks, Joe.

[213] And by the way, he was probably right.

[214] Probably right.

[215] Look, if you just hung back and just did nothing but watch TV for a year, the fucking ideas you would have, you'd probably have a really rock -solid idea of what's going on.

[216] His was more trying to have enough things going on that I wouldn't have any ideas for a year.

[217] And then I'd give myself a break for a year.

[218] Maybe that's good, too.

[219] See, I've thinking differently.

[220] I'm thinking, like, analyze the landscape.

[221] I think Joe Walsh is one of the most underrated guys ever, because he changed the fucking Eagles.

[222] The Eagles were one thing, and then Joe Walsh came around, like victim of love.

[223] That's Joe Walsh.

[224] He came around and all of a sudden there was a rock to it.

[225] It's like they were kicking down doors and lighting shit on fire.

[226] It was different.

[227] There was an edge to it, you know?

[228] He added crazy.

[229] He added crazy to this beautiful harmony.

[230] And I love it when the guys that added crazy go up to the thin veil between dimensions and say, I think I'm going to stay put.

[231] Yeah.

[232] And then all of a sudden, they represent stability.

[233] They represent being okay, hanging up your guns.

[234] Yeah.

[235] And just being, you know.

[236] Well, that's what, that's everything, everyone has to accept that at some point in time, right?

[237] I mean, maybe that's you and your glasses, right?

[238] Because everyone has to accept that at one point in time, you're going to have to get off the ride.

[239] But when you're doing great and you're kicking, like, boxers are a perfect example.

[240] They always last too long.

[241] There's only been a small handful.

[242] Like Andre Ward recently, Marvelous Marvin Hagler in his prime, they just go, that's it.

[243] I'm done.

[244] And they actually are done.

[245] Almost every one of them comes back and almost every one of them chases that dragon.

[246] Here's why I love you.

[247] You're making an argument for and also the argument against me coming back and doing another.

[248] Yeah.

[249] Listen, I'm not married to anything, except my wife, but I'm not married to any ideas.

[250] All the ideas that I have are just like, hmm, maybe that idea sucks.

[251] I love you as Iron Man. So I would, I would, if you, if they opened up this time machine and you popped out, I just imagine the moment where everybody goes fucking crazy.

[252] It would be amazing.

[253] It would be great.

[254] I would love that, but I would also love you hanging it up.

[255] Yeah, it's, look, it's just, first of all, it's 2020, and I'm not an O .C. D guy, but I keep thinking, see clearly.

[256] See clearly, even if your vision is going.

[257] And it's difficult because I feel like we all just get buffeted by feelings and ego or fears or little, you know, chips of resentments or intuitions that are tied to something maybe higher, but you think is out of your reach or whatever.

[258] So it was a perfect time.

[259] And I got to go have dinner with a, bunch of the Marvel folks last night and kind of have just a little bit of extra closure because you know the movie came out and it you know was bananas and the directors are sending me pictures of like people flipping out in theaters when Tony snaps and I was like whoa this is kind of like a really big cultural thing but then like Victoria Alonzo who's the head of VFX for all these movies a literal super genius or Kevin Feigy or Favreau or Scarlett or some people that But I've just been there with it for a long time.

[260] We were there experiencing it all when it came out, and then we'd see each other on a red carpet, and it's not intimate.

[261] And then we kind of hadn't really had a chance just to do nothing, just hang out and have some crudette and kind of talk shit.

[262] So it was really interesting being here today, because yesterday was this kind of, last night, was this kind of real, like, felt like closing the circle on things a bit.

[263] That's got to be bittersweet.

[264] Yeah But I'd like that I'd like that you want to move on And I like that you want to And I like that you're doing something like Dr. Doolittle Because that's that Look You've done a lot of wild shit in your life You've got a lot of wild shit in your career But You sort of embody every new chapter With the same kind of energy Although there's a different result And different piece of art It's all the same you And that's one of the more interesting things about people and particular actors because actors get to be a bunch of different things and it's one of the weirder things about that craft like when you see a guy who's like Daniel Day Lewis who like embodies these different humans like literally becomes different humans it's but it's always Daniel Day Lewis you know what I mean like even though he plays these you know that there will be blood guy and all these different psychopaths and various fascinating characters it's always the energy like you're you're pumped to see him do it right and I think that's I feel the same way with you it's like I know there's you're an interesting guy there's a lot of shit going on in your head so when you dive into something whatever it is whether it's your character from Tropic Thunder or whatever it is like you're you're gonna it's gonna be Robert Downey Jr. diving into something so I would imagine it would be kind of annoying even though you are brilliant at Iron Man to stay Iron Man Yeah.

[265] Well, fortunately, I don't have to find out, right?

[266] It's just interesting, too.

[267] You know, life is doing something.

[268] And, you know, I'm at this place.

[269] It's also, it baffles me confidence.

[270] What is, what does it really mean?

[271] There was a period of time where I felt like I did, I did the first Iron Man, and then I went and did Tropic Thunder, and then I was doing the first Sherlock, and I had my shirt off, and I was doing, martial I was like I was all over the place and it just felt like I was I was hitting triples no matter what I did and and then people are like are you really as confident as you seem and I was like I guess right now I am yeah and then and I think this goes I mean this reminds me we were just talking about the um McGregor cowboy fight coming up you know it's like it's you gonna go to that I'm gonna watch it I can not watch it you know Two brilliant souls who cannot lose.

[272] Neither one of them can afford to lose this fight.

[273] Wow, that is a match -up.

[274] Yeah, particularly Cowboy doesn't want to lose.

[275] Heck no. But there's this guy who's the poster child, the guy who's the one, right, the chosen one.

[276] That's Connor.

[277] And then this cowboy who's like, I think I can fuck that guy up.

[278] The journeyman.

[279] Yeah.

[280] Yeah.

[281] So confidence, you know, there's been times when I felt I'm in possession of it.

[282] And then you want to let go a little bit because it's only ever the moment and life guiding you.

[283] The wind is so at your back that you're like, wow, are you just, are you just, you know, jumping over the waves and all that by yourself?

[284] And you're like, you bet I am.

[285] But there's a physics to the moment, man moment, machine, whatever, and the wind's at your back.

[286] and then the wind does what the fucking wind does and it changes and if you're left there thinking what you know so i think it's great to be in full possession of what you would call supreme confidence and then see what happens if you don't hold on to it so hard because it's great but it is a bit of an illusion because like everything else it's always changing and every day the reset button the space bar gets pressed and it's like now what yeah the reset button Yeah, you kind of have to have a confidence to jump into some of the roles that you've taken, though.

[287] But I see what you're saying, like that you don't want to hold on to it.

[288] Because it can come and go.

[289] I remember Warren Beatty, who I learned so many amazing things from.

[290] I was doing a movie called The Pickup Artist with Molly Ringwald.

[291] I remember that movie.

[292] Okay, and he was kind of the de facto producer of it, uncredited.

[293] And he taught me a lot about just acting and what it was.

[294] And he said, what's your, what's your action in this scene?

[295] And I was like, oh, no, he's asked me. I was like, my action, I'm picking up girls.

[296] He goes, what's your action in this scene?

[297] And I was like, I'm driving a car.

[298] And he asked me like, you know that things sometimes when someone asks you a question and just you get caught flat footer?

[299] And he goes, no, your action is you're trying to go to work, but you're getting distracted by this addiction you have to trying to get laid.

[300] so your action is you're trying to get to work and I was like oh yeah he's right and you said always know what your action is because then when you come in in the morning confident or when you come in the morning you can't hit your ass with both hands you know what to do so to me one of the great lessons I learned from him was oh yeah just boil down what it is you're doing whether there's a camera around or just what am I doing today today I'm showing up and I'm trying to to be honest and also to listen and learn.

[301] But really my action today is I'm, today is I'm beginning a process of promotion.

[302] Warren Bade is another guy who learned how to put his guns down.

[303] Yeah.

[304] Yeah.

[305] It's like, I remember watching that Madonna movie.

[306] Remember when he was dating Madonna?

[307] Truth or Dare.

[308] Yeah.

[309] And he's hanging around with her.

[310] And, you know, she's in the throes of fame and everything.

[311] And he's like, what in the fuck is going on here?

[312] And you see him.

[313] Yeah, like he's never seen it.

[314] Yeah, but he's an older gentleman now.

[315] You know, he's hanging out with her and just shaking his head.

[316] And, you know, that kind of marked it for me where Warren Beatty just realized, all right, let me step away real quick.

[317] If I had to talk to him, one thing I would ask him is, what was it like when Carly Simon writes a song about you?

[318] That's got to be a trip.

[319] So many.

[320] I mean, we should.

[321] We should do a whole session just about things I learned from Warren Beatty.

[322] Yeah?

[323] I'm telling you.

[324] I would imagine.

[325] He's a brilliant guy, clearly.

[326] Do you think that you could do Tropic Thunder today?

[327] Would that be possible?

[328] Well, you could do it.

[329] And again, like Eddie, you know, I look back to me. That movie to me was a circle back to my dad's movie called Putney Swope, which I highly recommend anyone who hasn't seen to see about a black guy who takes over an ad agency in the 60s because everyone votes for him when the head of the company dies because they think no one else will.

[330] And it's about what happens when someone who is free -spirited takes over an essentially corrupt endeavor.

[331] And then he realizes and confronts his own corruption.

[332] But I remember I was probably two or three when that was being shot and when it came out and it was so a part of my upbringing and I just remembered some of the the folks that were around my dad at that time and so when Ben called and said hey I'm doing this thing and you know I think maybe Sean Penn had passed on it or something like that possibly wisely and I thought yeah I'll do that and I'll do that after Iron Man and then I started thinking this is a terrible wait a minute and then I thought well hold on dude get real here Where is your heart?

[333] And my heart is, A, I get to, I get to be black for a summer in my mind.

[334] So there's something in it for me. The other thing is I get to hold up to nature the insane self -involved hypocrisy of artists and what they think they're allowed to do on occasion, just my opinion.

[335] and also Ben, who is a masterful artist and director, probably the closest thing to a Charlie Chaplin that I've experienced in my lifetime.

[336] He writes, he directs, he acts.

[337] If you had seen him when he was directing this movie, you would have been like, I'm watching David Lean, I'm watching Chaplin, I'm watching Coppola.

[338] He knew exactly what the vision for this was.

[339] He executed it.

[340] It was impossible to not have it be an offensive nightmare of a movie.

[341] And 90 % of my black friends are like, dude, that was great.

[342] What about the other 10 %?

[343] You know, I can't disagree with them, but I know where my heart was.

[344] And I think that it's never an excuse to do something that is out of place and not of its time.

[345] But to me, it was just putting a, it was a blasting cap on.

[346] And by the way, I think white chicks came out.

[347] out pretty soon after that.

[348] I was like, I love that.

[349] I was like, that was great.

[350] So, you know.

[351] Well, it might be the last time we see that unless things change.

[352] It seems like no one can really, I don't think you could do blackface anymore.

[353] I mean, we almost lost the prime minister of Canada because he did brown face.

[354] He pretended to be Saudi Arabian, right?

[355] He did Arabian nights in high school or something like that.

[356] It's an interesting and necessary meditation.

[357] on where is the pendulum?

[358] Why is the pendulum right?

[359] Yeah.

[360] Where is the pendulum maybe cutting a little into what could be perceived as as heart in the right place?

[361] Openness of its time.

[362] But again, I mean, you know, there's a morality clause here on this planet.

[363] And it's a big price to pay.

[364] And I think having a moral psychology is job one.

[365] so sometimes you just got to go yeah you know I effed up again not in my defense but tropic thunder was about how wrong that is yes so I take exception no it's I think you could I think you could I think it could be done today there would be so much outrage but there would also be people cheering and if you if we got we boiled down all the bullshit and got to the actual result of what the film did it's fucking hilarious to this i watched it again about a year and a half ago it's a great movie it's a great fun movie i mean it's ridiculous over the top hilarious and it worked and and your portrayal i mean it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't it was necessary it made sense all of it fit it all the square pegs and square holes.

[366] I was just thinking square, but I don't know why I was thinking.

[367] Oh, I was thinking about Sarah Jessica Parker on the ride over there.

[368] Isn't that crazy?

[369] I think I drove by, is that Warner Park near here?

[370] Yeah, yeah.

[371] I think she went to school over there when she was doing a show.

[372] Anyway, interesting.

[373] Yeah.

[374] It worked.

[375] And but it was, it might be the last time we'll ever see a studio take a chance on a guy wearing blackface and the, the prolific use of the word retard.

[376] Those are two things.

[377] the way that's a ben the funny thing too was all the heat got deflected to ben and simple jack yeah that's what people were pissed off about and i go who great but you never know when it's going to be your time in the barrel you know sometimes sometimes life just says you know what and and i've been on both sides of that coin sometimes life just says you're a symbol now did you have anybody that was telling you not to do it were there a bunch agents or anyone who's like My mother was horrified.

[378] Really?

[379] Bobby, I am telling you, I have a bad feeling.

[380] I was like, yeah, me too, Mom.

[381] Anyway, how are we?

[382] First day on set.

[383] First day on set when they're putting the makeup on you.

[384] How hard are you sweating?

[385] There's been a couple times.

[386] I was all the night before, and we were on Kauai, and I was like, well, here we go.

[387] and I was just running I think I had six lines that day but I knew that there was going to be choppers there was going to be squib fire there was going to be choreography that was going to be you know it was going to be cacophonous and the only thing that mattered to me again what's my action my action is an actor in this movie is to know what I'm doing even if what I'm doing it's insane so I ran those six or eight lines I had a thousand in times lying in bed over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

[388] So the next day, I was free to enjoy myself and not be struggling to wonder what it was I was supposed to be doing.

[389] And then that's what it is.

[390] It was just, you know, it was one little mosaic after the next.

[391] And by the end of it, I had some pride that AI had made it through, forget that it was, you know, blackface, it was special effects makeup day after day after day after day after day after day after day, except for the odd times when I would have my bleached hair and blue contacts in my eyes or, you know, other characters.

[392] And it was just a, it was a piece of work I was doing.

[393] And I cared about doing it as professionally and as honestly as I could.

[394] So when you memorize lines, that's an interesting thing that you said that you were free to do it.

[395] Like, when you memorandum summarize lines, is there ever a part, like, when you're acting, where you have to think, like, okay, what am I supposed to say next?

[396] And how much does that get in the way?

[397] Look, I have a very broad band of tolerances.

[398] I don't care if the people I'm with happen to not know what they're doing or don't know their lines or stepping on my lines or whatever or want to change their lines and my lines.

[399] And it's always a different thing.

[400] It's like reading the room.

[401] It's like, you know, if I was a fighter, you're going to the octagon, and they go, you ready, you're ready?

[402] And you go, and then you just do it.

[403] You go in.

[404] But so I've had it where I would try to be off book before everyone else.

[405] I would get it down to an acronym.

[406] So if there was a thousand words I had to remember, I would just remember the first letter of each.

[407] And I would put it on a piece of poster board.

[408] And then I would stand away from it, not as far as you and your archery setup over there, but far enough away to where I can see it but kind of can't see it back when my vision was a little more clear.

[409] And I would just run it and run it and run it.

[410] When I did the first Sherlock, we were rewriting it so much and I would have pages and pages of stuff.

[411] I was like, give me an ear wig.

[412] And it helped me with my accent.

[413] And then I started getting into like, you know what's so great?

[414] I can finish work, go home, hang out with my kids or do whatever I want to do, go train.

[415] And in the morning, they can change it all they want.

[416] I don't have to trip if at all, if, you know, unless it's, you know, unless it's, some monologue that you want to really be committed to that's not going to shift i've just like that so you'd put one of those little earpieces in they would feed you the lines yeah yeah and now i've kind of gone as far as you can go with that and i'll probably go back to a new method or a new version of the old method so it's basically improvisational like you in in the moment like you you decide with whatever preparation you're going to do for each role how you're going to do it whether you're going to go and memorize everything obsessively or whether you're just going to be a little bit more loose and free with it yes it depends on the script too like tropic thunder justin thoreau wrote that script with uh with ben it was a really good script i mean my misses who next to my mother was you know probably more so it was the opinion i was really waiting on and she was reading in the kitchen laughing her ass off she goes this is so wrong this is so wrong and she goes and it's so true oh if you do this right you're you're doing something that's it's about a bunch of self -involved idiots somehow or other becoming heroes and she goes I love that if that's what it stays then it's going to be good and so like for instance the you know never go yeah uh full you don't want to say it no by the way I guarantee you I'm getting out of here my stock is not plummeting when I leave here I'm not smoking dope I'm not doing a musk I'm going to do everything right his stock went up the next day all right drop six went up nine with who I don't know I don't understand it.

[417] I love that you now have it.

[418] Now it's a piece of art. Yeah.

[419] With 6 % in the smoke.

[420] God bless his heart.

[421] Yeah, it just changes.

[422] It just changes.

[423] And I also know that I don't really know that much, and it's different every time anyway.

[424] But some, I really like when you have a loose concept of what you're doing, there's certain parts that aren't going to change much, and the rest you discover.

[425] So the first Iron Man, I mean, John and I and the writers or John and I, we were just would write, you write a line, I'll write a line.

[426] And then we were literally watching the puppies be born as we did it.

[427] Frustrating for people who, not Gwyneth, because she can look at a piece of paper and then go, okay, I get it.

[428] And she's got it all memorized.

[429] She's amazing.

[430] But what's for the highest good?

[431] Sometimes it's very self -indulgent to come in and like, you know, hand out new people.

[432] or say, oh, I'm not saying that, so feed me that.

[433] You know what I mean?

[434] You need an environment of respect, but I like discovering things.

[435] How much of acting is managing those weird relationships that you have with these other people that you're acting with?

[436] Like you've made some references to like people changing other people's lines and not being prepared.

[437] I got out of acting for that very, that was the thing that I went from a world of stand -up comedy which are just a bunch of crazy people to actors which are a bunch of crazy people but in a different way and managing all the different characters and all the different personalities how hard is that that seems like that could really get in the way well yeah sure it can and it's like a thumbprint every time you're on a new project it's a completely different you know fingerprint you never know what you're going to get and sometimes projects seem blessed and sometimes you could say they're cursed, but again, my Susan Downey Esquire was talking about this yesterday.

[438] She goes, it's the only thing you can't overcome as a creative producer on a big movie or anything is.

[439] In principle, no matter what happens, you can fix it.

[440] Oh, we lost the light.

[441] Oh, the thunder.

[442] The weather came in.

[443] Okay, he got sick.

[444] Oh, she's, oh, she's pregnant.

[445] Okay, great.

[446] It changed the costume.

[447] You can't overcome personalities.

[448] Yeah, the relationships that people have with each other.

[449] Do you meet up before you commit to a role?

[450] Do you ever say, like, I want to meet Captain America and find out what the fuck that guy's really like.

[451] By the way.

[452] I mean, I love that you think I had to have the authority.

[453] Did you cast this guy?

[454] All right, let me get a taste of him.

[455] No, I mean, just to say, like, I'm really interested in doing that, but can we all have a group dinner or something like that?

[456] Can I meet these guys?

[457] Find out someone's crazy.

[458] My MO is always, let's mind melt.

[459] let's get together.

[460] Let's work weekends.

[461] Let's spend time together because you can't replace that familiarity, so you have to try to build it.

[462] And sometimes it happens very naturally.

[463] Like I adore Chris Evans.

[464] I can't even tell you why.

[465] He's a Boston guy.

[466] He's technically and it's such a brilliant actor, but he also doesn't take himself seriously.

[467] He's flaky, but he's the first guy you would want to have your back if something went down.

[468] He's, and And yet we're different enough where I feel like by being who we are and then both having those characters, we were able to, I think, I thought Civil War was a special moment in the arc of the Marvel films about turning one against the other and what it meant.

[469] And so sometimes you just get lucky.

[470] As a matter of fact, the whole Marvel universe, possibly without exception, just happens to be a really well, what do you call that when you put together something curated, a group of souls.

[471] Well, it's interesting because people take superhero movies seriously now.

[472] Like now superhero movies are films that happen to be about superheroes.

[473] Whereas, you know, for the longest time, superhero movies were bullshit.

[474] You know, the TV shows were kind of clunky.

[475] They were campy.

[476] You know, it was Batman with the silly pants on and Robin.

[477] I bought it.

[478] Everything was bang, boom, bang.

[479] Remember you'd see the big boom in front of the screen?

[480] And yet, who was in the first Superman, Brandon.

[481] Yes, right.

[482] So there was always a seed of an attempt to legitimize.

[483] something that was otherwise two -dimensional.

[484] Yeah, Superman was probably the first film that really did that, right?

[485] And then Batman.

[486] Yeah.

[487] And then the Batman series.

[488] But again, how many goddamn Batman's have there been?

[489] Right.

[490] I want to see what Pattinson does.

[491] Oh, that's right.

[492] He's going to be Batman now.

[493] I like that guy.

[494] How many Spider -Man's ever have there been?

[495] That's the most, right?

[496] Three.

[497] Only three?

[498] Yeah.

[499] And three Hulks, right?

[500] At least.

[501] One, two, three, not counting the TV show.

[502] Yeah.

[503] Counting the TV show.

[504] Four.

[505] Counting the TV show.

[506] Oh, you're right.

[507] Eric Banna.

[508] You're right.

[509] Norton.

[510] Yep.

[511] Mark Ruffalo.

[512] Who I think he's my favorite.

[513] He was just born for it.

[514] Yeah, it's perfect.

[515] You believe him.

[516] And again, his whole thing was, what's my action is like, you know what?

[517] I got an anger problem.

[518] How do you guys manage this giant CGI thing?

[519] Like, how does that work?

[520] Like when you're on the set, that seems like one of the weirdest parts about acting in some of those Avenger films is how much of it is actually digital.

[521] Yeah, you just kind of get used to it.

[522] I'll digress.

[523] I did a movie with Richard Linklatter called A Scanner Darkly, and it was rotoscoped.

[524] Great fucking movie.

[525] I love that movie.

[526] Love him.

[527] And Keanu and I and Woody and Winona, and it was this cool thing.

[528] and we would shoot these scenes and he would say, oh, you can just leave your body mic on the outside because we're just painting the whole thing.

[529] So that rotoscoping is a great metaphor for essentially what the Marvel movies became when sometimes you would even go and I'm supposed to come in and, like, you know, throw something.

[530] It was off camera, but everything else was great.

[531] Oh, we'll just move your arm later.

[532] And you go, wow.

[533] So you never want to rest on your laurels and say, you know, but after a certain one, I was like, why am I wearing this, this, this football suit?

[534] Just put some dots on my shoulders so I can move more freely.

[535] And they'd be like, all right, I go, honestly, what are you really using this, all this stuff I'm wearing for?

[536] They go, for reference.

[537] I go, great.

[538] So I'll wear it for one take, and then I'll take it off and I'll relax a little bit.

[539] But then other people would be like, or a bet and would be like, I'm stuck in this fucking thing, God.

[540] I mean, just paint it purple.

[541] So everybody got to join.

[542] And on the joys and the miseries of the technical challenge of doing it.

[543] And speaking of Ruffalo, by the end, because he's Smart Hulk, he literally, they were just making him big wherever he was.

[544] And they'd put a little, you know, a piece of PVC with a big Hulk head up about five feet over where his head was.

[545] And he was just there in a green suit.

[546] So in a tracking suit with like his package out, you know.

[547] And he'd be like, can let me just at least tie like a little sarong.

[548] around was, come on guys, whatever, you know.

[549] And so I think Mark went about as far out into the ionosphere of, of CG as you can.

[550] I didn't get the whole smart Hulk thing.

[551] I didn't get how they, how he figured that out.

[552] It wasn't really, like, Hulk is supposed to be Hulk.

[553] Right.

[554] It's supposed to be the altar.

[555] It's like one you can control, one is, one is the genius scientist.

[556] Exactly.

[557] And one is the beast.

[558] But after so many times, and again, this is the genius of the people who break and shape stories over there.

[559] Fagie and his team, as they go, oh, he's Hulk, and he's not Hulk, he's a big battle.

[560] Oh, he's so conflicted.

[561] What if he could meet himself in the middle?

[562] And then what corner have we painted ourselves in by having him meet himself in the middle?

[563] Because then you can't, if that doesn't work, you can't go back to the way it was.

[564] You've done it.

[565] Or you can think that the real genius of the Marvel creative team and the Russo brothers who did the last few Avengers Infinity Warren Endgame is they go we love writing ourselves into a corner we love it because then it activates all of those how do we get out of purgatory juices and then you get the next right idea now when you guys sit down and when you first receive a script for one of these things.

[566] Do they consult with you?

[567] Do they discuss this with you?

[568] Do they just lay it out and say this is this is the character arc?

[569] How do you feel about this?

[570] What do you think?

[571] Yeah, and but it's changed over time.

[572] I think if you're one of the folks who are there standalone movies like Scarlett has Black Widow coming out, I think you take a, I would, you take a bit of a different attack in how much meaning, I think the phrase, the legal phrase for actors and studios is meaningful consultation, not script approval, because then anybody could hold a studio hostage because I don't approve this $30 million that you're trying to spend right now.

[573] So your schedule is fine.

[574] When you say, I don't approve, I picture a bathrobe and I picture fine china and teacups.

[575] That's what I picture I don't approve and then just storming off.

[576] I've had my moments too because I'm so passionate about story.

[577] But again, after more seat time with the same people and new people coming in and getting a pretty brutal education on what kind of process these movies require, you just start trusting more that they're thinking on your behalf.

[578] And also, little things are easy to change.

[579] Big things become a inconvenience to the higher good.

[580] and at what point do you want to pull the air brake on something where the trains, you know, already leaving the station?

[581] Well, I would imagine it would be a fine line that they want the actor to be comfortable with the character and they want some, and maybe some feedback would be beneficial, but they're also, they have a path, a vision that they've created.

[582] Yeah.

[583] And they would like to see you somehow or another, at least morph slightly to get.

[584] Get on this path.

[585] And by the way, after I had my second round of kids with Susan, I became both artistically.

[586] I had a bit of a renaissance when I was doing the third Iron Man. And then after that, too, I was like, well, now I'm going to do this Avengers and there's so many moving parts.

[587] And it's so difficult just to get all these schedules to coincide and get everyone together.

[588] Then I'm not going to be like, I'm not feeling it.

[589] So, again, it's that thing.

[590] It's sometimes, what do they say, faster or alone further together.

[591] Sometimes you can only think about further because you've got to get downfield.

[592] Other times you're thinking, hey, this is my moment to run, and I need a little help and a little approval and I need a little leeway.

[593] But that's any creative endeavor.

[594] I would imagine when you're involved in something that's so epic, when it's actually over, it probably almost seems surreal.

[595] Because the production is so massive, there's so many moving pieces, there's so many moving pieces, there's so much.

[596] many special effects, so many things that you have to sort of visualize while you're doing it.

[597] And then after it's all over, you're done.

[598] What is a big Avengers movie?

[599] How many months are you involved in this?

[600] Well, I mean, it could be some part of 18 months to two years depending on how far out you are and then four to six months of principal photography and then additional photography and then post.

[601] And then I always include promotion, you know, from Yeah.

[602] From soup to nuts, I think is the phrase.

[603] Soup to nuts.

[604] Yeah.

[605] How's that work?

[606] That's a Joel Silver phrase.

[607] One of my great, great friends and probably one of the greatest big movie producers of all time.

[608] We did the Sherlock's with him.

[609] He did the Matrix series.

[610] My Mrs. was running his company for 10 years.

[611] Kiss Kiss, Kiss, Bang, which is, I think, in some ways, the best film I've ever done, wound up being a calling card it came out and it bombed but John Favreau saw it and he said this guy could do an action movie and so that wound up being my calling card into the Marvel universe but to answer the question it can be anticlimactic like anything I mean this is surreal you know I never I've maybe seen you around a little bit but I feel like I know you because I see you all the time and I listen to you and I'm a a martial arts nut and yeah isn't it sometimes you when you when you get outside of the fortunate interesting creative experience you're having you kind of go like it's very dreamlike yeah yeah my whole life's a dream yeah except for the ramifications the ramifications those for real when those come back and bite you in the ass you like yikes this isn't a fucking dream at all this kid this is dangerous yeah i used to i remember the first time i met phil Hartman.

[612] I was stunned that I was actually like sitting, we were at a stable read.

[613] I was sitting across from him and I'm like, how the fuck?

[614] You're a famous guy.

[615] Like you're a really famous guy.

[616] Like I've seen you in movies, man. You've seen you on television.

[617] Here you are.

[618] Right there.

[619] How weird.

[620] You know, and it seems it's very hard to be normal.

[621] And then after a while, that becomes normal.

[622] And then the fact that it becomes normal becomes surreal.

[623] And then it really feels like dream like when I meet people like you like we've just met an hour or so ago yet instantly I feel like I know you yeah yeah it's very strange but also you're not full of shit you know when someone's not full of shit it's pretty easy to get to know them you say something I say something back oh I know how he works I see what's going on in there this is an actual human here we go we're talking there's a good litmus too because you watch your show pretty and I just love it too because in your show you literally you just you start it's a rolling start with you every time you come into the show and you're already kind of thinking about stuff so it's it feels very organic and part of me even this morning it was like i hope he looks into my eyes and doesn't see a complete and utter foolish frog because i would probably believe him if he mirrored that back to me oh no that's that's a danger right yeah if someone if you respect someone and they think you're a fucking idiot you're like oh no i might really be a fucking idiot but there's been times when in just being myself, someone who I respect has looked at me and said, what are we talking about?

[624] Yeah.

[625] What do you even say?

[626] And you remember that because it kind of, yeah, it stiff arms you.

[627] But part of those are good because it realized, well, you were probably off on a fucking stupid tangent.

[628] And that's part of being a person.

[629] You know, part of being a person is like, I don't know what the next word out of my mouth is going to be right now.

[630] No one ever does.

[631] Unless you do, and if you do, it's kind of weird.

[632] Some people are poker players.

[633] I respect some people, that are that um because there's a an ability to maybe it's fear based but i i always appreciate people who you know those people like their icons or big shots or that they hold a certain esteem and all of their texts they're very simple it's like yes yes we should fix that sure yeah sure is my favorite sure okay on it yeah yeah yeah no periods either like you don't have time to make a period.

[634] It beats the all caps texts.

[635] Oh, I don't like those at all.

[636] Those people are weird.

[637] Although C .T. Fletcher, he sends me all tax kit.

[638] Huh.

[639] I love him.

[640] But he's shouting at everything.

[641] Everything has a shout.

[642] Yeah.

[643] But yeah, the surreal part is, um, I think part of the reason I'm still so interested, not just in, in life, but also, you know, getting to do what I do, is I'm a fan.

[644] I love movies.

[645] I love creativity.

[646] I love music.

[647] I love culture.

[648] And the fact that I actually have a place in it while I'm observing it and digging it is like it's, it's an honor.

[649] Well, that's a beautiful perspective.

[650] And that shows in how you carry yourself and it shows in the work that you do, that you do appreciate it.

[651] You know, one of the saddest things is someone who's in an amazing position who doesn't appreciate it.

[652] and that that drives other people crazy too like prima donnas drive people crazy for a variety of reasons but one of the big ones is you don't appreciate how fortunate you are like and people love when people appreciate good fortune and appreciate a well -earned position and are you know engrossed in a beautiful life of something that they really enjoy and something that really inspires them well i need to I need to be kept right -sized because I can easily fall into self -seeking and depression and self -pity and judgment and all that stuff.

[653] It's kind of a, it's a bit of a default, but I spend enough energy and I've had enough help over enough years to actually just say, oh, that's just awful, destructive behavior.

[654] You're entertaining in your head, you know?

[655] Bad patterns, just bad thought.

[656] patterns.

[657] Yeah.

[658] Yeah, I think we could all fall into those.

[659] I'm ruthlessly self -critical.

[660] And for me, sometimes it's very hard to step outside and just, just take a pause and, and recognize that not everything's going to be right the first time you try it.

[661] I think that a lot of people that are really great at things, it's one of the things about them is that they're not very satisfied with their work.

[662] Like, they're always looking to improve it.

[663] They're always looking for it to be better.

[664] and then that can start that cycle in their head of self -loathing and anxiety and anger at their performance or their work or whatever it is.

[665] And then that can lead to depression and that can lead to just self -hate.

[666] Yeah.

[667] And what are your tolerances?

[668] Like, I'll be the first to tell you, like, you know, do certain movies or we were doing Tropic Thunder or one of the first, you know, Iron Man movies.

[669] I was like, I'd go over to the monitor and be like, play that back again.

[670] That was so good.

[671] Dude, let me see that again.

[672] I need confirmation.

[673] Because it's always a miracle.

[674] You stayed in frame.

[675] You got the line right.

[676] Your eye line was right.

[677] The lighting was right.

[678] The sensibility was right.

[679] And you just look at it and you go, oh, you know, it's like, I don't know.

[680] For me, it's like the playback of the perfect Superman punch K .O. And just go, show me that again.

[681] Yeah.

[682] Or when we were shooting Tropic Thunder, I had a little teaser clip for Iron Man, but it wasn't coming out until the next year and we were going to go to Comic -Con and so I got to see it and show it to people and they're like, oh, I think that movie's going to do pretty good and then when we went to Comic -Con we saw it, but it used to be like that with music too.

[683] Like I write music, I haven't for some time, but you would write something and then you'd just listen to it on the loop because you go, wow, that's not, I know that I was here and I did that, but it feels kind of inspired and you want to get all that stuff.

[684] But, yes, self -critical is important as long as it doesn't bleed out into and over the edges and just make everyone harsh and miserable.

[685] Right.

[686] Again, get out of your own way.

[687] Again, I mean, that's one of the many tenets of life.

[688] Learn how to get out of your own way with everything, including with creative endeavors.

[689] It seems like that thing that you said about music, most people who write things or create things say that, they know they're doing it.

[690] Like, if you make a great sculpture, you know you're doing it.

[691] But where is it coming from?

[692] Like, what is the idea that manifests itself into this perfect thing that you could step back and look at?

[693] And it seems surreal that how did I create that?

[694] Did I?

[695] I don't know if I did.

[696] I mean, I definitely made my fingers move, but I don't know if that's me. Who wrote that music?

[697] Who performed it?

[698] I know you did.

[699] But there's a thing inside you that sort of like tunes in to this energy of ideas.

[700] and then it comes through you.

[701] And again, you kind of have to get out of your own way while you're writing something.

[702] And then when it comes out, it's a weird feeling.

[703] It's not like, like, if you hammer a nail into a board, you fucking are very aware you did that.

[704] You're very aware.

[705] But there's something about the creative process that's not, you're not totally there.

[706] It's weird.

[707] Yeah.

[708] Because it is you and it isn't you.

[709] Right.

[710] What does you even mean?

[711] I love it.

[712] You always hear it, too, in sports.

[713] It's like, you know, oh, you know, how to go today, Federer.

[714] Oh, I was out of my mind.

[715] I was not in my mind.

[716] It was a beautiful day.

[717] And I think you saw the results.

[718] Yeah.

[719] Yeah.

[720] Effortless, poetic.

[721] Well, fighters talk about that all the time that, like, especially a counter shot.

[722] Like, they land something and they don't even have any idea they're going to do it and they did it.

[723] And then it caused the knockout.

[724] It's their training, manifest.

[725] itself in this one special beautiful moment where bang this thing happens and then they see the guy drop and like holy shit oh yeah and then they they walk away and it's the work it's it's it's there's so many things involved right there's so many moving pieces you have to be working on your own mind to learn how to get out of your own way you also have to be like really engrossed in whatever the activity is that you're doing like obsessed in love with it passionate about it and then you have to have the discipline to show up and actually do the work there's so many different moving and it all has to be managed and it's not solid it's like it's like a fucking raft on the ocean it's moving around you're always trying to like figure out how to keep it keep it moving and functional and it always seems unmanageable and after it's over it was like oh how fuck does that even work yeah we call it the fader board uh yeah right you know how do you get it all and honestly particularly in the last 15 years when i started really taking martial arts seriously Half the stuff that I've been able to do right in my creative life are principles that I learned on the mat with my Sifu.

[726] Mm. You know, guard your center.

[727] Keep your eye on the lead elbow.

[728] Get to the blind side, you know.

[729] How often do that?

[730] I started, I think I'm in the 15th or 16th year.

[731] seafood was over a day before yesterday so you know a bunch of times a week and if I'm working on something or if you can make it the location we'll have long stretches where we're doing it every day then there's gratings so you got to prep for those you know mm -hmm it's so what are you doing kung fu like is it a very particular style traditional Wing Chun really yeah which is very underrated art form yes also so many trade secrets and so different than how I see it when I'm looking at videos in that in UFC everything is out in the open and it's discussed and you see in a lot of the eastern stuff there was a turf ores and we're not really going to show them our footwork we're not going to do this so but anyway it's been a real deep dive with my seafood eric orum who's seafood my see gung as uh grandmaster william chung renown kind of hong kong rooftop fights all that stuff amazing laura but very technical difficult to build and easy to use you know uh you very rarely see that in the ufc but one of the best fighters in the ufc uses it regularly tony uh tony Ferguson.

[732] Tony Ferguson uses trapping hands.

[733] The Mook Jung.

[734] Yeah.

[735] He grabs wrists and comes over the top with elbows.

[736] He does straight wing chung.

[737] He does it all the time.

[738] And he even practices on a wooden dummy.

[739] I got my ass kicked by a wooden dummy for about three years.

[740] And then I finally understood the principle of don't fight force and force.

[741] And, you know, it's just nuts.

[742] So anyway, half the time if I would be in a critical artistic situation I would just say because Wing Chun problems are life problems life problems or Wing Chun problems and I would just go back to how did this kind of relate to because I don't like getting clocked and getting my teeth knocked in because we tend to sometimes we glove up but we're not wearing mouthpieces it's very why don't you wear a mouthpiece it's certainly not because he's very good at pulling his punches, and he's also even better at making sure that I don't accidentally hit him.

[743] But we get as close as we can to what the real experience would be.

[744] But again, it's like everything.

[745] I'm sure, you know, a few clicks back down the road, there's things that instructors were doing that would be considered illegal to do to a group of students nowadays.

[746] Yeah, for sure.

[747] So not just a few clicks while I was coming up.

[748] That's what I would imagine.

[749] Yeah.

[750] Oh, there's, yeah, they'd hit each other.

[751] It students would get beat up.

[752] It was a normal thing.

[753] You, so did you start training for Sherlock Holmes or you started training before that?

[754] I didn't.

[755] It absolutely coincided with my recovery.

[756] Oh.

[757] And the two things just somehow or others seemed to lock in when, and talked to you off the record.

[758] afterwards about any and everything to do with my recovery.

[759] As far as it locked in with this, it was an apprentice, an apprenticeship.

[760] And it was an apprenticeship that was contingent on me being in a certain headspace.

[761] Well, it's a good thing, too, because it's a very addictive thing.

[762] People get very addicted to martial arts.

[763] And it's a good substitute for sometimes negative addictions.

[764] You know, Bourdain before he died, he was obsessed with Brazilian jiu -jitsu.

[765] yeah became really obsessed with it at 58 and got really good he was he was training every day and he was trained twice a day every day so he went from when I first met him he was chubby he was smoking cigarettes he drank every night still kind of still drank every night but you know he just did enough to enough healthy things keep his body together and then his ex -wife got really into jiu -tsu and then he decided to follow one day to classes and he was kind of mocking it and laughing at it at first and then became obsessed and then really got good i mean he was and at the the guy he won in a tournament and i mean oh my gosh yeah he's fucking 60 years old what's really crazy is a picture of him walking down the street in i think they were in rome and he has no shirt on and he's fucking ripped anthony bourdain full six -pack yeah dude he was obsessed he would take a private every day look at him look at that photo that's crazy he's He's like 60 -something years old there.

[766] So he would take a private lesson every day, and then he would take a class.

[767] So he would take a private lesson, sharpen up techniques, and then he would roll.

[768] He'd take group classes, too, which is very critical.

[769] We've got to roll with different people.

[770] 100%.

[771] Yeah.

[772] And so he was in there, and it became a good thing for him to sort of become addicted to this positive thing.

[773] Yeah, I mean, for me, it wasn't going to be golf.

[774] It wasn't going to be something passive like that.

[775] Right.

[776] No, I hear it's great, but it's been, it's just been a great gift.

[777] And it's also the thing where, you know, you're just, you're never done.

[778] I made Black Belt five years ago for another grading, and now we're doing a lot of weapons stuff.

[779] And it's just, I just adore it.

[780] That's awesome.

[781] Congratulations.

[782] Yeah.

[783] My Tago Window teacher said something to me when I was very young.

[784] They said that it is a tool for developing your human potential.

[785] Yeah.

[786] And I never forgot that because I'm like, yeah, it's because it's really difficult to do.

[787] Like all martial arts are really, it's really difficult to get your body to move that way and to be able to be effective in a conflict situation.

[788] And if you can do it, you can do it over and over again, and you can overcome that difficult thing and you thought it was insurmountable and then you figured out how to do it.

[789] Eventually you get to this point, you realize, well, everything in life is like that.

[790] Everything in life is like something, it's a puzzle.

[791] You have to figure out how am I approaching it wrong?

[792] What can I do to make it better?

[793] How do I get more competent at this particular skill or this particular discipline?

[794] Yeah.

[795] And just the humility, too.

[796] I mean, if I've noticed anything in the last couple of years, just in UFC, which, by the way, I was doing a Robert Altman film called The Gingerbread Man back in the 90s.

[797] And UFC had just started off.

[798] And I was getting the VHS tapes and watching them.

[799] And so when they go back on the 25 years ago, I was like, I've been, I've been there from Jump.

[800] That's awesome.

[801] But we watch, it's just that thing of no matter what you think.

[802] the tides are changing quickly and you just got to keep keep working well that was a real wake -up call for a lot of martial artists was the UFC because a lot of the stuff that they were doing really wasn't effective yeah they thought it would be if everybody was playing by the rules in the dojo and sort of following along the but once you really saw an actual caged event where people were just going balls out you realize I was, oh, a lot of this stuff just doesn't work.

[803] Yeah.

[804] And I love how messy it was at the beginning, too, because the style of matchups were so, they were almost.

[805] Crazy.

[806] Laffable until you saw the violence.

[807] And no weight classes.

[808] You and I share another passion, Resto Mods.

[809] Yes.

[810] You have, was it a 1970 Mustang?

[811] Yeah, I got that 302.

[812] It was Speedcore, a couple other ones.

[813] Speedcore does amazing stuff.

[814] They're great.

[815] Yeah.

[816] And when I saw that they were doing your car, I go, oh, this is going to be good.

[817] But you picked a unique color, too.

[818] Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the only, oh, hello.

[819] Look at that thing.

[820] Yeah, that's back east right now.

[821] That's a good car for straightaways.

[822] That's a nice Long Island car.

[823] Yeah, it's beautiful.

[824] But the beautiful thing about something like Speedcore is they're going to take that car and make it so that it's manageable.

[825] You can actually drive it.

[826] If you drove a real 1970 stock car, it would be, it's horrific.

[827] And it's amazing how far we've come.

[828] Those cars, it's like you're blindfolded as you're driving.

[829] You're sort of aware of what the car is going to do as you turn the wheel, but not really.

[830] No, to me, it's like a crop duster without wings.

[831] Every time I start, I just go, Jesus Christ, man, I got kids.

[832] I got kids.

[833] And also, since I threw my hat in the ring with this kind of green technology initiatives, I'm probably going to wind up auctioning them all off, to be honest.

[834] Right.

[835] You know, drove a little BMW electric car here.

[836] I saw.

[837] I started laughing when I saw it pull into the park.

[838] I'm like, okay.

[839] I get it.

[840] You got to do what you got to do.

[841] I have a Tesla.

[842] I'll hold on to it.

[843] I know if it works.

[844] Yeah, you have to hold on to that one, man. What is this?

[845] That is a tarantula hawk that Maynard Keenan from Tool sent me from his farm in Arizona.

[846] Oh, that's fantastic.

[847] We were talking about it on a podcast, and he's, He's like, have you ever seen one?

[848] I go, no. And then a week later, one arrived in the mail.

[849] Hold on, let me see what this says.

[850] Yeah, you can't read.

[851] By the way, have I been too far off, Mike, this whole time?

[852] No, you're fine, man. We're good.

[853] You could give me a sign.

[854] Jamie's a master.

[855] He knows how to handle this.

[856] I know you have a lot of other shit to do, so I'm going to let you get out of here.

[857] But I just want to say, it's an honor.

[858] Honor to meet you.

[859] A real pleasure to sit down and talk to you.

[860] I appreciate you taking your time, and best of luck with everything.

[861] It just flew by, pal.

[862] I'll be back, trust me. Okay, I hope you do.

[863] I hope you do come back.

[864] Bye, everybody.

[865] You know what I wanted to get to?

[866] I need to plan.