#766 - Gad Saad

[0] Fighting the nonsense of the world, ladies and gentlemen.

[1] The Godfather's back.

[2] How are you, buddy?

[3] Good to see you, man. Good to see you.

[4] What's going on?

[5] What's going on?

[6] I'm here in Southern California.

[7] You escaped.

[8] I escaped minus 30 with wind chill last week.

[9] Didn't leave the house from Friday to Monday.

[10] With the wind chill factors minus 30 or it's actually minus 30?

[11] I mean, with the wind chill.

[12] Yeah.

[13] So I'd say it's minus 15.

[14] With windchill, minus 30.

[15] You guys have become too soft in Southern California.

[16] California.

[17] 100%.

[18] What do you mean become?

[19] We've been too soft.

[20] Yeah.

[21] Yeah, this is a ridiculous place to live.

[22] Well, I don't know about that.

[23] It is.

[24] This is like a lottery winner place to live.

[25] It's like the weather lottery and these people, they don't understand what the weather is.

[26] They're just running around.

[27] I swear to God, if it gets 50 here, people start complaining.

[28] I've seen weather advisories when I used to live here where there'd be a 10 -minute spell of rain and there'd be endless warnings.

[29] Be careful.

[30] Be careful.

[31] Be careful.

[32] You know, we go through.

[33] blizzards yeah there is one reason for that though the oil slick yeah yeah when it doesn't rain for a long time all the oil from people's cars the residue gets on the road and as soon as just a little bit of water gets on that it gets really slippery and that that is reality but still before we start before we last time when i was here it was on your birthday and some guy wrote in a very non -antysmetic way here goes God being a Jew, not giving Joe Rogan a gift on his birthday.

[34] So I thought that I would correct that by giving you a signed copy of one of my books.

[35] Oh, thank you.

[36] There you go.

[37] The consuming instinct.

[38] Now you can grow what juicy burgers, Ferraris, pornography, and gift giving reveal about human nature.

[39] There you go, buddy.

[40] And signed by the Godfather.

[41] Thank you so much.

[42] Very exciting.

[43] Yeah, well, you can't read those things that people say, those mean things.

[44] Oh, yeah, I try to avoid them, but once in a while I get sucked in, and they can piss me off.

[45] Well, I always equated to snake venom.

[46] It's like if you get a little bit of snake venom, you get immune to it, you get accustomed to it, whereas if you get a big burst of it, it can poison you.

[47] So if you just get a little bit of it every now and then when a big burst comes your way, like someone calling you a cheap Jew, you go, you motherfucker, it doesn't work anymore.

[48] Right.

[49] He just realizes a lot of people out there that a lot of the reason why they're saying these mean things because they're trying to find something that they can say that'll get you to respond.

[50] Exactly right.

[51] That's a big part of it.

[52] So what, so recently, the latest one is, so somebody trolls you endlessly in a very impolite manner, right?

[53] Okay.

[54] Usually I sometimes I try to engage them, but I find them obnoxious.

[55] Do you really?

[56] I know.

[57] It's ridiculous.

[58] But you're a busy man. I am.

[59] You're an actual professor at a legitimate university.

[60] I am indeed.

[61] Isn't it crazy that I would even entertain there?

[62] Yeah.

[63] So, anyway, so once in a while I get sucked into the trap.

[64] Okay.

[65] They're in polite.

[66] So after a while, I blocked them.

[67] So these guys then, because I've blocked them, start going around saying, well, you know, he's supposedly a proponent of freedom of speech, yet he blocks me. As though I'm the purveyor of freedom of speech, right?

[68] I mean, I'm not allowed to come to your house, break into your house and start calling you names.

[69] And if you stop me, I accuse you of not supporting free speech.

[70] right but in their minds if i block them simply because i don't longer want to engage them i am going i am being a hypocrite because i'm not supporting their freedom to insult me see again i have to go back to what i said earlier why why you're so smart like what what how is this even getting into your mind can i tell you what it is oftentimes yes i find that galling that somebody could be so insulting galling what does that word mean like uh yeah right yes right i mean we interact you and i with a million people a day um with most of the people they're lovely they're sweet they're polite they might vast majority right so so when you get this individual who simply can't modulate his behavior to even sort of adhere to the most basic social norms once in a while i just get pissed off but usually i'm able to avoid it well you shouldn't even once in a while look first of all you got to realize that an Anonymity is a really confusing thing for people.

[71] It's the ability to communicate with people anonymous has never existed before.

[72] Right.

[73] Other than some serial killer making some note by cutting out little pieces of paper out of the newspaper and, you know, using the words from that.

[74] There's no anonymity, man. It doesn't exist, right?

[75] So when you have anonymity in the form of like, you have a Twitter account and it's just an egg and you call yourself, fuck McGee.

[76] and you just start trolling the gadfather.

[77] Makes no sense.

[78] It's, well, it's, you know, that's not a normal interaction.

[79] It's, there shouldn't be a method where someone could just contact you like that because our bodies and our minds and our, all our systems, our social systems, they're just not set up for that.

[80] So it's, it's saying rude things without consequence.

[81] You're basically, you're offering, by the way, an evolutionary argument.

[82] Yes.

[83] That's exactly right.

[84] Perfect.

[85] Yeah, beautiful.

[86] It's a completely new thing that we, really just don't have the mechanisms for.

[87] We're not accustomed to it.

[88] We don't really have a long history of it.

[89] I mean, we have a history of just doing this.

[90] The realistic history, at the extreme level, is 20 years.

[91] 94 -ish, 96 -ish, somewhere around then when it started, right?

[92] But the real history is probably less than 10 of it really being incredibly pervasive the way it is today, like with Twitter and Facebook and all this Instagram comments and things along those lines.

[93] I was just saying it's it's a new thing that we have to work out because it is a massive massive part of our culture there was some statistic recently about the amount of data that people produce in a day worldwide and the most of the data is LOL fuck you you know bullshit but it is you know ones and zeros binary code it's all all that data there's more produced in a day than it's some staggering statistic than the rest of human history yeah yeah it's like It's something crazy.

[94] Like, here it goes.

[95] Every day, 2 .5 quintillion bytes of data created daily.

[96] Incredible.

[97] What in the fuck is that?

[98] 90 % of the world's data today has been created in the last two years alone.

[99] Wow.

[100] Well, by the way, a lot of business schools now have programs and data analytics or big data, where they try to teach students how to navigate through the complexity of this type of big data sets.

[101] So it's a really hot feel in business schools.

[102] Well, it's impossible.

[103] I mean, the real navigate.

[104] I mean, what it is is there is a pattern, a very clear pattern emerging.

[105] That pattern is of anyone being able to access any information at any time.

[106] And it's getting closer and closer to that all the time.

[107] And some of that means communication.

[108] Right.

[109] It doesn't just mean being able to access, you know, Googling some facts or some knowledge.

[110] It also, it's being able to communicate with people.

[111] And it's gotten to this really crazy place.

[112] Speaking of information, my doctoral dissertation more than 20 years ago was about how do people decide when to stop acquiring additional information and commit to a choice.

[113] So suppose I'm choosing between cars or between mates.

[114] or between job applicants or between jobs to take.

[115] Whatever the decision is.

[116] Did you say between mates?

[117] Mates, yeah.

[118] So you got like a gang of bitches just waiting for the dad father.

[119] You should see.

[120] I did look at some of the comments right after I appear, right?

[121] Then I lose interest and I don't.

[122] But there was one guy who wrote something like, this guy is swimming in pussy.

[123] And then everybody starts ganging up on that comment.

[124] You know what it is, man?

[125] It's that beer commercial, the most interesting man in the world.

[126] Is that?

[127] I look like him.

[128] Yeah, that's what it is.

[129] Like, that look, like, it's become a thing now, you know?

[130] I got you.

[131] The beautiful white beard and a man of wisdom in years.

[132] Thank you.

[133] So, anyway, so in that, in my doctoral dissertation, I had looked at, whoa, I think I'm better looking than this guy.

[134] I'm sure you do think that.

[135] You know, that guy's Canadian, too.

[136] Is he?

[137] Yeah, he's not even really Spanish.

[138] And he's much older than me. You think so?

[139] What do I think so?

[140] I think so.

[141] He's like 70.

[142] Okay.

[143] I'm 51.

[144] I don't know how old the guy is.

[145] So anyway, so the whole psychology of decision making I've addressed it in my research.

[146] Very interesting stuff, yeah.

[147] Well, what is the, well, this is a different sort of decision making thing because I think you definitely can get lost where you can just go online.

[148] And, you know, one of the things that YouTube does now that makes it really difficult is you watch a video.

[149] Say I was watching some video today on a rhino slamming into a car.

[150] It was removed, though, some copyright infringement.

[151] It's fucking crazy.

[152] This rhino charged this car and slams into it.

[153] The problem is, once you watch a video, immediately after that, it offers up another video.

[154] And it starts playing.

[155] It'll give you like 10 seconds, and then it starts playing again.

[156] And then you look on the side and there's all these suggestions.

[157] It's not as simple as one video.

[158] It's an endless web.

[159] That's why, by the way, internet pornography for men is such an alluring truiting.

[160] trap, right?

[161] Because our visual system and our need for variety seeking is there.

[162] And now you mean I can satiate this by going online, having endless, different, nubile, ready to mate women.

[163] Yes.

[164] So it's easy for our computational system to be parasitized by the internet.

[165] Well, it's also, it's probably really not, we're not really set up to watch people fuck.

[166] You know, it just seems like the brain just doesn't know what to do with them.

[167] You know, Especially if you're by yourself, you close the door, what's going on here?

[168] Yeah, I mean, there's people that just will watch pornography 10, 12 hours a day.

[169] And it's not just a few.

[170] I bet if you could highlight, I bet if you were in a plane and you're flying over the United States, and there was a light bulb that went off over everyone's head that jerks off for 12 hours a day.

[171] You'd be stunned.

[172] You'd be stunned.

[173] You'd be able to read by it.

[174] You'd be able to hold a magazine up to the window and read.

[175] I'm not joking.

[176] I think there's a lot of people out there.

[177] there that get they get overwhelmed by the possibilities of doing that like the the choice yeah it's they don't have the discipline to handle that and uh it's actually a conversation that i was having with my friend duncan the other day about discipline and how important discipline is to living a good and healthy life and that getting the things that you need to get done will allow you to actually enjoy your free time whereas if you don't get those things done the the free time and those these pursuits, these things, they almost become obsessions, and you kind of dive into them to avoid the pressure of getting those things done, and it becomes sort of counterintuitive.

[178] Yeah, I...

[179] Counterproductive.

[180] Yeah, going back to the pornography I had on my YouTube channel, do you know who Mercedes Carre is?

[181] Sure, yeah, I've met her.

[182] Have you?

[183] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[184] She came to one of my shows with, I guess, her husband, her boyfriend or something like that.

[185] Very nice guy.

[186] He's very smart girl, but I'd seen her on Gavin McGinnis's podcast.

[187] podcast.

[188] Right.

[189] And she's very smart.

[190] Well, of course.

[191] I mean, otherwise, I mean, what would we have to talk about?

[192] Well, she's an engineer, right?

[193] She's an engineer.

[194] She's very, very heavily vested into the whole social justice warrior, you know, bullshit.

[195] And the other way.

[196] Fighting against it.

[197] Exactly.

[198] So I'd seen her on a few, you know, popular podcasts.

[199] And I thought, I mean, she's just, not only she, of course, beautiful, but so well spoken.

[200] And so I had her on the show and we've communicated since several time.

[201] And so that's been really fun.

[202] I mean, sort of to mimic what you do with your podcast of bringing in so many interesting people in my YouTube channel.

[203] I've had people from, you know, guys who fight Islam to, you know, porn stars who used to be former engineers.

[204] So it's been really fun to meet all these people.

[205] Yeah, there's a cool movement going on now where there's a lot of very intelligent people that are resisting nonsense.

[206] Right.

[207] Where they're just going, come on.

[208] You're wasting time.

[209] You're wasting effort.

[210] And also, there's a lot of people.

[211] people that are attaching themselves to these ridiculous movements just because they have an identity in that movement.

[212] Right.

[213] And then they fill their void, whatever social void they have in their life with this new thing, this new being an SJW.

[214] I'm a social justice warrior.

[215] There was an article recently about Yale, about students at Yale having a hard time balancing out their social, their responsibilities with activism.

[216] Like, what fucking activism?

[217] This isn't active.

[218] You're just holding up signs and complaining.

[219] Right.

[220] I mean, this is, there's not activism.

[221] You're not changing a goddamn thing other than people's opinions about you.

[222] Have you seen the one with, so I did an invited lecture at University of Ottawa on the thought police and political correctness.

[223] I'm not sure if you saw it.

[224] If not, you should check it up.

[225] Yeah, it's really, it kind of covers the safe spaces, the microaggressions and the trigger warnings.

[226] And one of the examples that I picked, I really tried to pick some really outlandish examples that should only belong in the onion.

[227] One of the examples was some, I think it was some students at University of Oregon wanted to take down the classic quote by Martin Luther King, you know, the I Have a Dream stuff.

[228] Yes.

[229] Because it was insufficiently inclusive by him, you know, focusing his ire on racism and not looking at whatever it is, transgenderism and so on, he was not, he was being divisive.

[230] So when Martin Luther King can draw the eye.

[231] of these guys.

[232] None of us are safe.

[233] No one is safe.

[234] Yeah.

[235] Well, they're not safe either.

[236] I mean, they're eating themselves.

[237] They're attacking themselves.

[238] We had this podcast where we went over this story about this woman who joined Wellesley College, which is an all -girls college.

[239] I've spoken there.

[240] Do you know the story behind it?

[241] The woman joined Wellesley College.

[242] And then once she joined Wellsley College, she decided that she's going to identify as a man. Oh, yes.

[243] I know that's Masculine of center genderqueer is what her distinction was.

[244] I've seen your shtick on it and I was cracking up in my house.

[245] I was crying laughing.

[246] I was screaming laughing because then she voted to be, she wanted to be the head person of diversity, chairman of Denver, whatever the fuck the title was, but it's had something to do with diversity.

[247] And they were boycotting her because now she was a white man. Like, this is glorious.

[248] This is glorious.

[249] They're literally eating themselves.

[250] They're, they're so ridiculous.

[251] They've spun around in circles and they're biting their own asses.

[252] It's what's going on.

[253] But I truly feel, though, that they've sort of reached the zenith and it's going to start decaying.

[254] No, it's going to get crazier and crazier and crazier and crazier and then there's going to be, there's a culture war.

[255] Right.

[256] Yeah, I don't think they've stopped.

[257] I don't even think they've started.

[258] I think they're just, they're right now scrambling.

[259] I think they don't hold weight amongst rational people anymore.

[260] But that's not going to stop their movement.

[261] Right.

[262] Their movement will continue to be irrational at a frenzied pace, and they're literally going to cannibalize each other.

[263] So what do you think is the end trajectory?

[264] I mean, at some point, it has to crash, right?

[265] Well, it's going to, there's like, it's almost like a civil war.

[266] Right.

[267] It's almost like a preposterous civil war.

[268] Like, I think in a sense, our politics in this country have always been a civil war, just by nature of having only two choices.

[269] Right.

[270] Just by the dual party system and this ridiculous idea that there's independent.

[271] parties.

[272] They're not.

[273] They're not independent.

[274] Unless Trump decides go independent.

[275] He's going to win.

[276] You think he's going to win the presidency?

[277] He's going to win.

[278] Yeah, he's going to win.

[279] Hillary can't beat him.

[280] I don't think she could beat him.

[281] I would like to see Bernie Sanders win.

[282] Not because of his financial policies, which I think are ridiculous, but I think his social policies are interesting.

[283] And what I should clarify, here's what's ridiculous about his financial policies.

[284] Don't make more taxes, because more taxes just means more government.

[285] And more government is what we fucking need right now.

[286] If you want to organize charitable institutions that will legitimately help people and have people donate money and have people work towards, you know, like these donations will actually take away from your taxes.

[287] Let's figure out some way where we make it beneficial for people to be charitable.

[288] Where we set up community programs, take some of the money that we're spending on shit that we really don't need to spend money on, some subsidies that we probably don't need that are benefiting gigantic corporations and instead use those to help the education systems in poor communities, use those to try to provide jobs and industry in poor communities.

[289] These are all really good ideas.

[290] So I'm in favor of that kind of socialism.

[291] I'm absolutely in favor of free universities.

[292] I don't think that people should get out of school and be a quarter million dollars in debt.

[293] I think that's madness.

[294] I think if you're going to make $50 ,000 a year, okay, if you've got a really good job, you make $50 ,000 a year, right?

[295] You get out of school.

[296] If you get out of school and you make 50 grand to you, you're fucking kicking ass, right?

[297] Everything's going great for you.

[298] You're not really making 50 grand.

[299] You're making about 34, right?

[300] And then you got taxes.

[301] You got sales taxes if you live in a place like California.

[302] You got state taxes.

[303] So you're living off of somewhere in the late, you know, 20s, 30s, something like that.

[304] And you've got $250 ,000 of debt you've got to deal with.

[305] And you've studied women's studies, which is a very actionable set of skills.

[306] Well, how many people study that?

[307] Well, how many people get out?

[308] Well, there's a couple.

[309] I mean, there's, I just think that it's an insane burden to put on young people to have them enter into the free market, enter into the world, and be already saddled down by insane amounts of debt.

[310] I think there's got to be a way around that.

[311] And I don't think that it's a terrible idea to have publicly funded universities.

[312] I just don't think it's a terrible idea.

[313] I don't think it's an insurmountable idea.

[314] So I like Bernie Sanders in a lot of ways.

[315] I think he's a compassionate guy.

[316] I think he's an open -minded guy.

[317] I think he says a lot of really radical things.

[318] I love the fact that he goes out on the limb with his Black Lives Matter stuff.

[319] I like that he's making a big deal about these cops shooting these young black kids.

[320] And then it's got to fucking stop.

[321] It's got to stop.

[322] It's madness.

[323] How many videos have to come out?

[324] After a while, there's obviously some clear problem.

[325] How is Trump not handling this?

[326] How is Hillary not handling this?

[327] This is a real problem.

[328] In our culture, in our society, there's a divisiveness.

[329] There's this separation between these people that live in these communities that are terrified of the police and they're really worried about being shot all the time.

[330] And then everybody else that's on the outside that's looking in and saying, well, if you just followed the law, you wouldn't have those problems.

[331] Like, try being born there.

[332] Try being raised there.

[333] These are not, we're not on an even playing field.

[334] You know, and I think he's one of the few guys that's addressing this imbalance, this social.

[335] imbalance, this cultural imbalance, this, this economic imbalance that we have in this country in a really radical way.

[336] So I like him for that.

[337] I think that would be a good thing for this country for a guy like that.

[338] You know, would it really happen?

[339] I don't know.

[340] I mean, I take him over the others.

[341] I take him over the other one.

[342] I think Trump is just, he says too much crazy shit.

[343] This shit he said about Mexico, like they're going to pay for that wall.

[344] And they called me up and they say, what do you think about this and how could you say that?

[345] You know what?

[346] The wall just got 10 feet higher.

[347] That's not what we need.

[348] I mean, he's not very presidential in his mannerisms.

[349] You know, I think he's a real successful guy, and I think what he's doing is he's tapping into this real frustration that a lot of people have.

[350] And there's a lot of people that don't like the bullshit that's involved in politics or people aren't saying what they really think.

[351] So here's this guy who comes along.

[352] He doesn't need anybody's money.

[353] He's insanely wealthy.

[354] He's a multi -billionaire And he could say whatever the fuck he wants And he's used to say whatever the fuck he wants And every time he does it, people cheer So that's good too It's good too Because finally we've got It's almost like we've got an insane Ross Perot You know, it's like remember Ross Perrault I do, I do Ross Perot fucked up the election For George.

[355] 1992 with the big ears Yeah He fucked it up for George Bush's dad Yeah Because the older Bush You know they slated him for a second term A lot of people thought he was going to win Ross Perot came along and explained on television.

[356] He bought a half an hour of primetime TV.

[357] Pre -internet, ladies and gentlemen, he bought a half an hour of primetime TV and explained to the Federal Reserve to people.

[358] Explained how you're getting fucked.

[359] And I remember, you know, there was no internet back then.

[360] So I remember me and some friends, we got together afterwards and we were going, did you fucking see that?

[361] Like, is that right?

[362] Is what he's saying true?

[363] Like, how does that make any sense?

[364] And then he was talking about how his children were being threatened, and he was worried they were going to get kidnapped.

[365] There was all this crazy shit.

[366] And it got me down a lot of rabbit holes, you know, like conspiracy theory rabbit holes, watching that guy do that.

[367] But I think that what Donald Trump is is like a more rabid, informed version of that.

[368] More informed, meaning our culture is more informed, meaning, you know, we're here in the age of the Internet where it's, if you go out on television and say something about the Federal Reserve, people understand that you're talking about an insane institution now, whereas back then, people like, what?

[369] What is he saying?

[370] The Federal Reserve is not a part of the government?

[371] You know, like, nobody knew that.

[372] Nobody knew the Federal Bank.

[373] Why is it called the Federal Bank?

[374] It's not federal.

[375] It's so confusing.

[376] You know, I think the main thing about Trump that people are tapping into is rightly or wrongly that he comes across as authentic.

[377] So if you look on the, on some metric of authenticity.

[378] Yes.

[379] I mean, Hillary Clinton, could not be any more inauthentic, right?

[380] I mean, she freaks you out, right?

[381] She's spooky in her inability to convey, even if she tried to fake genuine emotions.

[382] Yeah.

[383] Whereas on the other hand, whether you like him or don't, Trump seems to speak from the heart.

[384] Yes.

[385] And so to the extent that a lot of people are disillusioned with politicians, then this guy comes along, and I can at least tap into that and hang on that element of his personality.

[386] So I think that's what explains his, success yeah and also white men meaning yeah there's a lot of white men out there excited this this really bold white man as a contrast effect you mean to to Obama yeah as a contrast to Obama definitely is a contrast to Hillary and you know because she's Bernie Sanders is chumming up with the black folks you know have you seen have you followed our politics in Canada yeah you're Trudeau guy I like that guy you do I do I like that guy because he's young and he seems smart and he has nice hair He's got beautiful hair.

[387] He boxed.

[388] He did.

[389] He did do that.

[390] But what's bad about him?

[391] To the extent that I think we both despise social justice warriors, the ostrich brigade, the regressive left.

[392] So explain the ostrich brigade.

[393] The ostrich brigade is a term that I popularized, which basically refers to folks who have their head deep in the sand so that they can't really accept some of the most basic regularities in the world, right?

[394] You know, there is no link between Islam and any terrorist act anywhere in the world.

[395] And to suggest otherwise it would be Islamophobic.

[396] Exactly.

[397] So somebody who exhibits this type of behavior is exhibiting ostrich logic.

[398] Right.

[399] So Justin Trudeau is the kingpin of the ostrich brigade.

[400] Damn it.

[401] Yeah.

[402] Handsome fellow.

[403] So he basically, his dad, his dad instituted as part of our Canadian ethos multiculturalism.

[404] And multiculturalism means to the, different things.

[405] Multiculturalism when it's used in everyday language means many cultures, right?

[406] L .A. is multicultural, meaning it's pluralistic.

[407] But multiculturalism as a political philosophy is actually a very dangerous idea, right?

[408] It basically says that when immigrants come into your land, they don't have to assimilate within your cultural values.

[409] Rather, you allow everybody to get ghettoized because who are we to judge the values of another?

[410] Gettoized?

[411] Yeah, like, you know.

[412] You mean like a Dominican community There's a Dominican community.

[413] Here are the Muslims are here, the non -sharia zone here.

[414] Why is that?

[415] But ghetto is like a poor.

[416] No, no, no. No, ghetto wise in the sense that everybody who is of the same background lives in that space.

[417] But that's not a ghetto.

[418] I mean, the term is used in different ways.

[419] It's not ghetto in the sense of hip -hop ghetto.

[420] Is there a term?

[421] Getto, is that like a legitimate term?

[422] Yeah.

[423] What does that mean?

[424] Because I've always, I don't, I mean, I'm just saying, ghetto in this country is always referred to.

[425] to as a poor community?

[426] No, I think it has a broader meaning, at least as I understand it.

[427] So, for example, if you say you're ghettoizing people into different areas of the city.

[428] I've never even heard it as a verb.

[429] Well, that's why I'm here.

[430] Ghetto eyes.

[431] There you go.

[432] Yeah, here we go.

[433] New immigrants still tended to ghetto eyes in the cities.

[434] I mean, it's exactly what I just defined.

[435] Yeah, what's the origin of ghettoes?

[436] I don't know the etymology.

[437] Is it actually based on the word ghettoes?

[438] I'm guessing, or is it a totally, is it like, like, brace yourselves, folks, I'm going to say a word that's confusing, niggardly, and it has nothing to do with the N word.

[439] Yes.

[440] It has to do with, like, find the origins of that word, because I think it has to do, it's, it's about being miserly or cheap.

[441] Yes.

[442] But it has nothing to do with black people whatsoever.

[443] Reluctant to give or spend stingy and, uh, myn't.

[444] miserly in the origin.

[445] What's the origin of it?

[446] Where's it said?

[447] Does it say?

[448] No?

[449] Doesn't have an origin?

[450] But let me, if I could finish my point about Justin Trudeau.

[451] Okay, go ahead.

[452] Please do.

[453] Yeah.

[454] So Justin Trudeau, at one point when he was a member of parliament, someone had said that things like female genital mutilations and child brides and honor killings was the type of barbarism that we don't need in Canada.

[455] and Justin Trudeau's position at the time was how dare you use the word barbarism in describing other people's cultures, right?

[456] So he wasn't offended by having women's clitoris as cut.

[457] He was offended by people who described that behavior as barbaric.

[458] So he is the king of the ostriches.

[459] So he's not a fan of the Gathfathers.

[460] Oh, no. Or I'm not a fan of his, rather.

[461] Oh, Canada.

[462] Yeah.

[463] Have you followed some of our debates regarding allowing the sort of open, well, not open door, but allowing massive number of Syrian immigrants?

[464] No, I haven't followed you debates, but see what's going on in other countries.

[465] Well, so, of course, in Europe, they look at our issue and they sort of say, come on, are you serious?

[466] We have, you know, 800 ,000 migrants coming through to Germany.

[467] You're complaining about 25 ,000.

[468] Well, look what happened with Cologne.

[469] where the mayor of Cologne, after these attacks on New Year's Eve, was telling women to dress different and stay away from men.

[470] Oster's Brigade.

[471] That's fucking insane.

[472] I mean, that is a very culturally diverse area that has existed in a very peaceful way for a long time until all the sudden they led in all these immigrants, and they're having a massive problem with women being sexually assaulted.

[473] So instead of protecting these women and trying to do their best to ramp up the police force or do something to stop it or make sure the people are safe or really put it out there that, look, you're in a new fucking place.

[474] And if you want to simulate in our culture, you've got to leave these fucking women alone or we're going to get rid of you.

[475] Everyone who does anything to women in our country, we're going to get rid of you.

[476] You can't be here and make people feel unsafe.

[477] Instead of doing that.

[478] But see, that's so one of the reasons why I'm very concerned about the 25 ,000 that are coming in, people say, well, come on, how many of them are likely to be ISIS members?

[479] But the danger is not only, people only think of ISIS members as a danger, right?

[480] But when you've got 25 ,000 people of whom a very large majority will adhere to certain values that are perfectly antithetical to ours, right?

[481] What are your views on homosexuals?

[482] What are your views on religious minorities?

[483] On Jews.

[484] If we live in 25 ,000 Syrians, statistically speaking, is it more likely or less likely that they'd be anti -Semitism?

[485] I mean, that's an empirical statement that we could test, right?

[486] So it's not only about the fact that how many of these.

[487] 25 ,000 are ISIS members.

[488] It's how many of these 25 ,000 people will hold values that are perfectly congruent with ours?

[489] And so we have every right without having the threat of being called racist and Islamophobia over our head to engage in a discussion on how do we vet these people.

[490] I mean, how do you find out what percentage of those are going to hold views that are grotesque to us and then should we be letting them in?

[491] Well, what are the options?

[492] I mean, how could you possibly find out what their views are?

[493] You would have to sit down with each one individually and quiz them, and then you would have to verify their claims or their answers.

[494] Well, at the very least, I would argue that you should never be allowed under the guise of your religious practice to espouse, you know, hateful things, right?

[495] I mean, if you go to a house of worship and that house of worship, of worship is praying certain things that you and I would consider genocidal hatred, then my right to be free of the genocidal hatred that's coming my way supersedes your right to practice your religion of genocidally hating me. And so that simply has to be the rule.

[496] And if we don't wake up to that reality, we're going to have problems.

[497] Yeah, I would say that that's a very reasonable statement.

[498] And I think that there's a lot of people in this country that like to say things like what you were claiming Trudeau said about culture, like how dare you criticize their culture.

[499] Culture is a bullshit word.

[500] It's human behavior.

[501] You're looking at human behavior.

[502] Some human behavior is acceptable.

[503] Some is acceptable.

[504] And if it's acceptable in other countries to eat people, guess what?

[505] It's not acceptable here.

[506] You can't cook people.

[507] You can't eat them.

[508] We don't allow it.

[509] Right.

[510] Well, let me add to that.

[511] Part of multiculturalism is this idea.

[512] that, you know, all cultures are unique, distinct, and equal in their own right.

[513] And actually, that is a truly, profoundly incorrect statement.

[514] Cultures are not equal, right?

[515] Different cultures are different cultures are differentially able to engender happiness to more or less people, right?

[516] Yes.

[517] So if you are part of whatever it means, Taliban culture, you can on average predict that women in that culture will be less self -actualized than in Western countries.

[518] That is an empirically demonstrable fact.

[519] Yes.

[520] And so the idea that who are we to judge other cultures, this idea of cultural relativism, which is part, which is endemic of multiculturalism, is profoundly incorrect and it has to go.

[521] Well, it's a blind statement.

[522] It's not a real, it's not a real statement.

[523] You can't really say that.

[524] It's not, I mean, you could look at it economically.

[525] You could look at it socially.

[526] You look at it in terms of, you know, there's a real good argument that in this country, there's less freedom than there is in other countries because more people are in jail.

[527] Right.

[528] You could look at it that way.

[529] You can look at the disproportionate amount of people that are in jail for nonviolent drug offenses in this country and say, well, this country is obviously a fucked up place.

[530] Right.

[531] And that's a legit claim as well.

[532] But the idea of numerical value, equal, making it equal, we're all cultures equal.

[533] That's foolishness.

[534] That's not true.

[535] Not only that, there's a very real thing going on in the world where as the age of information washes upon us.

[536] And I think this is the new age of information, the age of pure information.

[537] As this washes upon us, we're seeing massive changes in our own country.

[538] We're seeing massive changes in our political system.

[539] We're seeing massive changes socially.

[540] And I think the social justice warrior thing is sort of a side effect of that.

[541] Or these disenfranchised people, then some of them may be mentally ill. They have a voice.

[542] You know, some of them, let's not say ill, imbalanced.

[543] Maybe they're radical because they're young and idealist and they haven't looked at all the right ways, and then one day they'll balance out like many people have.

[544] There's many young radicals.

[545] It become very rational people in their 50s and 60s and whatever.

[546] But this thing is taking place here, and it's also taking place all over the world.

[547] Well, where information is being resisted, that's where we have problems in the world.

[548] Right.

[549] Where fundamental religious values are superseding the age of information.

[550] They're squashing people's ability to express themselves, people's ability to try new things, explore new things.

[551] Their sexual values, their identities, all those things.

[552] Like, as soon as you have like an ancient fucking scripture, some shit that was written on animal skins a thousand years ago, like, as soon as that is at the head, And that takes precedent over everything else because it was supposedly the word of God or who else, someone who talked to God, whatever the fuck it is.

[553] You've got a problem.

[554] You've got a real problem there because religion, religion in and of itself is an idea.

[555] And it's an idea that is one of the very few ideas that we accept that literally has no basis in reality.

[556] It has no basis in fact.

[557] It has no basis in anything provable.

[558] And that's why we have this concept of faith.

[559] Well, as soon as you have religion that's dominating information, you have a problem.

[560] You got a bottleneck.

[561] You got a wall that's put up for progress.

[562] Now, when people develop in that environment, you have stifled people.

[563] Just like, I have a friend, and him and his wife, they were Mormons until they were like 40.

[564] and then they decided slowly they lived overseas for a bit and they kind of experienced the world and they opened their eyes to a lot of different things and they decided to move away from the church they're fucking lost man they're lost like they're almost like grown up children I think you might have told me about a lot of time yeah they're wonderful people they're great people but the wife is really interesting because she's very self -aware and she even talks about it she says I growing up in this really fundamentalist religion I think I developed a really bad way of looking at things where I'm easily confused.

[565] Easily confused and easily led.

[566] Right.

[567] Like a charlatan could take her over or a cult member could...

[568] Chapter 8 of the book that I just gave you is called Marketing Hope by Selling Lies.

[569] And basically what I argue there is that there are different peddlers of hope that are successful precisely because they could sell you hope in the areas that are most important and sort of Darwinian insecurities.

[570] right, how to be a better lover, how to live forever, how to be a better parent, right?

[571] Right.

[572] So all of the key Darwinian pursuits that keep us up at night, there is a peddler out there who can give you the recipe, whether he be a self -help guru, whether he be a medical quack, whether he be religion.

[573] Yes.

[574] And so that's why those products are so successful because they peddle us hope.

[575] Yes, but growing up with religion, especially fundamentalist religion, it cannot be questioned.

[576] It becomes a real problem because there's these rigid areas where you're only allowed to think one way.

[577] Right.

[578] Now, you develop these patterns in your mind.

[579] Then when you move to a new place, it doesn't support those ideas.

[580] And you want to use general mutilation.

[581] You want to wrap women up in fucking mummy cloth and make sure they can't drive.

[582] Like, you want to do that same shit in Canada that you're doing in Saudi Arabia.

[583] You've got a real fucking problem.

[584] That's a real problem.

[585] And Justin Trudeau would say, who are we to judge?

[586] their practices, whereas what you're saying is you're against multiculturalism because you are taking a position against it.

[587] So you don't like Justin Trudeau.

[588] Well, I'm definitely not against multiculturalism.

[589] I'm against religious fundamentalism on a global scale.

[590] Because I'm not against God.

[591] And this is what people have to understand.

[592] Like, I would be the last person to tell you I have any idea about something that I have never experienced.

[593] And what I've never experienced is the afterlife.

[594] Right.

[595] I've never, I am open to the idea that this life is one stage and an infinite fractal, like a gigantic, infinite number of experiences that our, our energy can go through.

[596] Can I interject?

[597] Yeah.

[598] Could that simply be the fact that you are finding an alternate way, not through religion, but through some alternate means to address.

[599] Live on forever?

[600] Well, exactly.

[601] Right?

[602] No. So I could take this pill called religion that will grant me immortality or I could do your fractal mumbo -jumbo stuff and it's no disrespect.

[603] And that could still get me to.

[604] Whereas the reality, the intellectually honest position is that we really have absolutely no evidence.

[605] This is a very small party that will last if you're lucky 85 years.

[606] And it's profoundly fear -inducing because I want to be coming back on this podcast for the next 4 ,000 years.

[607] But it really worries me that I won.

[608] But it's honest.

[609] It's honest to know that you've got 85 years.

[610] In a sense, it's liberating because it forces me and you, if you're an atheist, to really carpe diem it, right?

[611] You really have to cease the day because there are no do -overs.

[612] There is no eternity.

[613] There is no afterlife.

[614] It's all right here what we do.

[615] And so in a sense, there is a glory to the finiteness that is afforded by atheism.

[616] You can certainly look at it that way.

[617] My perspective, though, is that we really just don't know, and that energy continues to move forward in a lot of different ways.

[618] We see this throughout all of nature, whereas things die, they get reabsorbed into the ground, the very energy and the essence that they had when they were alive, fuels, all these different microbes and bacteria in the ground that it makes the soil richer, it grows more plants, animals eat those plants, that nourishes them.

[619] They all, they literally, the cells and the, the carbon from every fucking human being on this planet came from a star that exploded.

[620] Death becomes life in some sort of strange way.

[621] And I don't think that it's impossible that that could be the same thing with consciousness, with energy, with whatever the fucking it is inside of us that makes us alive and aware and makes our minds tune in to all of the possibilities and the wonders of the world.

[622] I don't know if this is the end, but you don't either.

[623] I don't.

[624] Well, no one does.

[625] Right.

[626] That's the point.

[627] And then as soon as someone comes along and tells you they do know, and this is the only way to the afterlife, and this is the only way to heaven, you've got a real problem.

[628] You've got a real problem because human beings are malleable, and you can guide them, and you can direct them, and you can mold them, and you could turn them into religious slaves.

[629] You could turn them into ideological slaves.

[630] And we should recognize that from a psychological perspective, from an educated perspective, from a perspective of recognizing cult behavioral.

[631] I was watching this thing on this guy, Steve Hassan, the guy who was on our podcast before, is a cult expert.

[632] He sent me an email today and I watched this piece on cults and cult behavior and cults on the internet.

[633] And it's so fucking, it's terrifying how malleable people's minds are and how someone who's an unscrupulous person or unscrupulous person or someone who has nefarious ideas can convince people to blow themselves up, to get virgins in the afterlife.

[634] I mean, that's a reality.

[635] To get very earthly Darwinian things in the afterlife, right?

[636] Well, it's people don't know, and that's my point.

[637] And when someone comes along and says, I do know, and this is the truth, it becomes a real problem.

[638] Because you can't fucking prove it.

[639] You can't prove it.

[640] You don't have any facts.

[641] You don't have any data.

[642] There's nothing you can measure.

[643] There's nothing you can weigh.

[644] And you're not saying you think.

[645] You're saying you know.

[646] And if you think one thing, if you think, I think this is it, Carpe Diem, live for the day.

[647] This is our only shot here.

[648] You might be right.

[649] Or this guy who.

[650] done a fucking pound of mushrooms might have come back from the other side and say, listen, I have this idea and I think that love is eternal and it goes on forever.

[651] And what we really are here, we're this being that's trying to figure itself out in this very brief amount of time and the best we can do is leave behind information.

[652] We have this wonderful thing called communication and language.

[653] We store this information.

[654] The next generation comes along and tries to pick up where the last generation left off, gather up as much data as they can and then move it forward a little bit.

[655] before they expire and we keep doing it and doing it and doing it until hopefully we move towards some level of enlightenment as a species see i can i can repackage that in slightly more earthly and less esoteric terms i think that we can achieve immortality in quotes in two ways right through genetic propagation that's why you and i have children i mean literally we are extending our genes and also through memetic propagation and memetic propagation is you know you read this book and it now infects your brains i'm not reading it now you're not infecting me man by the way next time i come there's a 100 % final exam on this book so you're god damn professors you're very exams uh right so so memetic propagation is basically anything that can uh be part if you like of your legacy right so the collection of stuff that people can go and and watch about you as part of joe rogan's memetic propagation and long after you may be gone, people will be able to consume Joe Rogan's ideas and all of the wonderful things that he's done for many, many years to come.

[656] And so in that sense, I think, either through genetic propagation or memetic propagation, we can be immortal.

[657] And that's why it is really important to do all the wonderful things that people do, because that is your ticket to immortality.

[658] I don't, I mean, again, you might say, well, how do you know?

[659] I don't know, but until I have any evidence of otherwise, I'm going to take the intellectually honest position and say, the party's going to ends.

[660] Well, really, let's get further than that, because immortality is nonsense.

[661] This fucking sun doesn't have an immortal life.

[662] Yeah, we got like four billion years, right?

[663] If we're lucky, and that's assuming that we don't get hit by one of these gigantic fucking rocks that keeps flying around.

[664] You hear about that one that went off over the Atlantic Ocean the other day?

[665] No. Oh, my God.

[666] A fucking meteor exploded over the Atlantic Ocean.

[667] Nobody knew about it.

[668] Nobody heard about it.

[669] Nobody knew was coming.

[670] Pull this up, Jamie, because the amount of energy that it released is insane.

[671] If it would have hit, let's say, New York, what would have happened?

[672] Dead, everyone.

[673] Dead.

[674] Everybody is like an atomic button.

[675] Like Hiroshima, bigger than Hiroshima.

[676] Here it is.

[677] A meteor explode over the Atlantic.

[678] Like, pull up the amount of power that it had.

[679] I had it on my Twitter, where it talked about in relationship to Hiroshima, like how big of it was.

[680] 500 ,000 tons of TNT.

[681] Jesus fucking Christ It's insane It says that was the one over Russia Oh this is the one of what is this one?

[682] It was 13 ,000 tons of TNT Okay Oh the Russian one I remember from a few years ago Yes But what's the Atlantic Ocean one Well pull up the one that compared it to Pull up the article that I had on my On my Twitter Because it compared it to a nuclear bomb Wow Yeah Well, these are really common, you know, and I had this guy, Randall Carlson on the podcast a few times, and he's dedicated his life to paying attention to the signs of astroaral impacts all throughout history and all throughout the world.

[683] He's an astronomer?

[684] Yeah, and he believes that what's happened is all throughout human history, there's been these resets where people accumulated a lot of data, they learned a lot, society moved forward, and then boom, we got hit.

[685] and then a lot of people died and then they had a regroup start all over again and there's a lot of evidence in the physical form and the stuff called trite, I think it's called Tritonite it's called it's nuclear glass they call it and it's the same substance that they find when they do nuclear tests in the desert and stuff and they found it all throughout Europe and Asia and they find it when they do core samples between like 10 and 12 ,000 years so it's exactly the same time as the end of the Ice Age coincides at the end of the Ice Age and with these like puzzling moments in civilization where you have they'll find things like Obeckley, Tepe, these beautiful structures that are really complex that are 14 ,000 years old, 12 ,000 years old.

[686] They're like, who the fuck was building this stuff back then?

[687] When we thought people were hunter gatherers and then right after that, boom!

[688] We get hit by rocks.

[689] Most people die.

[690] A lot of people die.

[691] And then they have to regroup again.

[692] And I think that that that's most likely going to be the end of humanity.

[693] Just like it was the end of the dinosaurs.

[694] 65 million years ago.

[695] It's much more common than we really would like to think about.

[696] So definitely don't sweat the small stuff.

[697] Yeah, there's no immortality as far as this dimension.

[698] It's just, it's not going to happen.

[699] So you want me to tell you a bit about the evolutionary roots of religion, how you would study religion as an evolutionist.

[700] Okay.

[701] You ready?

[702] Yeah.

[703] So one argument is based on, it's an adaptive argument, right?

[704] So the idea is if religion exists, does it confer an adaptive advantage to people?

[705] And so there is some work done by a good friend of mine, David Sloan Wilson, an evolutionary biologist, where he argues, using a group selectionist argument, that groups that are religious out -survive groups that are not, by virtue of them being more communal, more cohesive, more banded.

[706] So that argument is an adaptive argument for why religion exists.

[707] there is another argument by other evolutionists that is based on an exaptation argument.

[708] Have you ever heard that term?

[709] Exaptation.

[710] No, what does that mean?

[711] So that's a byproduct of evolution.

[712] In other words, it's something that evolved not because itself it confers an adaptive advantage, but rather it's piggybacking.

[713] So, for example, the fact that your skeletal system is the color that it is, that itself is not adaptive.

[714] It is a byproduct of other evolutionary processes.

[715] So from that perspective, religion piggybacks.

[716] on computational systems in our brains that evolve for other things.

[717] You follow what I mean?

[718] So, for example, coalitional thinking, the idea of viewing the world as us versus them, blue team versus red team.

[719] That is an innate part of our psychology.

[720] Now, religion piggybacks on that, right?

[721] It takes that computational system that already exists in us and it puts it on steroid, right?

[722] So you think about the Abrahamic religions, right?

[723] Every one of them has us versus them.

[724] They are the Jews, the Gentiles, the believers, the Kuf, right and so agency detection detecting agency in things is something that is innate to us religion plays on that the agent becomes god and so that's an argument that was proposed by pascal boyet where he's basically saying that religion did not specifically evolve because itself it is adaptive but it piggybacks on other things that have evolved and then a third way to study religion is to just do a content analysis of the the narratives within religion.

[725] So there was a great study done by a Darwinian historian where she looked at in the Old Testament how many women are ascribed to a different male in the Old Testament as a function of a status.

[726] So the higher the status of the male, the more sexual partners he had, which is exactly what you would predict from an evolutionary perspective.

[727] High status to men confers reproductive success.

[728] So there are different ways that evolution is, and there are several other ways, that can study religion from an evolutionary perspective.

[729] That's pretty fascinating.

[730] Well, I also think that we've always, as cultures, have sort of tried to stay alive and have tried to maintain order.

[731] We've always tried to establish sets of rules and boundaries and things, and it only makes sense that you would say, hey, you know, there's a real reason why you can't kill people.

[732] And it's not because it makes everybody upset.

[733] it's because you're going to go to hell right so listen you don't want to go to hell so don't kill people You know all these all these things that people have done throughout history I mean if you look at religion on a global scale there's some key components to almost all religions Right and those seem to they seem to benefit order they seem to benefit culture and like you were saying that the idea of people living longer and being more successful as a as a culture yeah well sense is of community.

[734] If you have a sense of community, if you establish community and you establish a bond between people and a higher good or a higher reason to exist.

[735] Well, I'll give you another example.

[736] Kosher laws.

[737] I actually discussed us in this book, right?

[738] So I try to offer a biological explanation that is not rooted in religious narratives for why kosher laws would have evolved, right?

[739] So think about the kosher edict that you shouldn't eat shellfish.

[740] Well, So I did a lot of research when I was writing the book on this issue.

[741] It turns out that when you have shellfish that is infected with a particular pathogen.

[742] Red tide.

[743] That could kill you, right?

[744] Yes.

[745] The one that is infected versus the one that is not infected, you can't sensorially tell the difference, either through smell, either through sight.

[746] So number one.

[747] Number two, it's not as though the one that's coming from an infected lives in mercury water.

[748] So there is nothing that you could use in terms of observational learning that can offer you some statistical regularity of, if I do A, B will happen.

[749] Once in a while, somebody eats a shellfish, they drop dead.

[750] I don't have a means, I'm thinking as a Bronze Age guy running around the Middle East, to ever learn from this malediction.

[751] Therefore, the only thing that I can do is then say it is an edict from God, boom, don't do it.

[752] Of course.

[753] So there are very, very easy, earthly biological reasons to take food taboos, religious taboos and demonstrate that they have nothing.

[754] But of course, when I say this in a classroom where there are people who might otherwise be religious, they see it, yet they can't completely follow you.

[755] Of course.

[756] Yeah, well, because they have this doctrine in their mind that is just the word of God.

[757] Well, also pigs, eating pigs.

[758] Exactly.

[759] I mean, we all know that pigs contain trichinosis and bears as well.

[760] You're not supposed to eat bears.

[761] There's a lot of reasons why.

[762] kosher living in you know a thousand five thousand years ago whatever was really smart smart way to go have you have you ever read I'm giving him here a a thumbs up maybe it'll help his book the paleo manifesto by John Durant no I haven't but John and I have been talking back and forth on Twitter and where he's moving here so when he moves here he's dead to me you just said he's moving here I want to be in Southern California he's dead to me I now this he's my he's my energy you were here for you were here for like three months, right?

[763] Weren't you here for a bunch of months?

[764] I'm here all the time.

[765] Why don't you move here?

[766] Because I need a professorship here.

[767] You're a smart guy.

[768] You're selling books.

[769] You're doing well.

[770] You're right.

[771] But anyways, and I think in his book he talks about, I don't remember the exact number, but he looked at the 613 commandments in Jewish law.

[772] And some outlandish number, say something like 20 % of them, deal with purity rituals.

[773] And those purity rituals are ultimately.

[774] means, very earthly means, to try to remove the possibility that you've been exposed to dangerous pathogens.

[775] Right.

[776] Right.

[777] So again, you see how something that is cloaked in the robe of religion is ultimately solving a very basic earthly biological problem.

[778] Well, also, if you talk about sexual, you know, promiscuity.

[779] Right.

[780] Controlling that controls sexually transmitted diseases, which like syphilis and a lot of the really terminal ones, before they had medication for those things.

[781] things.

[782] They killed a lot of people.

[783] A lot of people died from having sex.

[784] Right.

[785] Which is just a ruthless, cruel thing.

[786] And you got to assume that that's probably nature trying to strike some sort of a balance, right?

[787] We don't want to think about it that way, but it exists all throughout nature.

[788] When animals become overpopulated, all of a sudden they start developing diseases and they fall off.

[789] I mean, that's the rabbit cycle.

[790] If you're not aware, people who aren't where rabbits go in a seven -year cycle.

[791] So if you're around and you see a lot of rabbits, you see rabbits all over the place, and then, like, three years later, there's no rabbits.

[792] What happens is rabbits get to a high population level, and then they'll develop a disease, and they die off.

[793] And then there's only a few rabbits.

[794] And then it takes seven years until they reach this peak again, and they die off again.

[795] This is in a natural setting.

[796] Natural, constant seven -year cycle.

[797] to regulate the population of rabbits because we all know that rabbits fuck like rabbits.

[798] Right.

[799] And they make a lot of babies.

[800] And they don't have that, unfortunately, with pigs.

[801] Right.

[802] Pigs are so hardy and so ruthless that they will have litters three, four times a year.

[803] I think a female pig can have a litter as soon as like, look this up, Jamie, but I want to say it's like within six months.

[804] Within six months of being born, she can give birth, which is crazy.

[805] Right.

[806] And they can just have piglets three times a year, and each time they do it, they'll have a bunch of them, and they'll just overtake places.

[807] They got a problem in San Jose.

[808] There was a new story on the other day where these people were in their house, and the pigs were knocking over their garbage can and eating up their lawn in a normal residential neighborhood.

[809] Like, I mean, a pretty crowded neighborhood, and these wild pigs are just roaming through the streets now.

[810] They're everywhere.

[811] Have you ever heard the term RK selected?

[812] Does that ring about it?

[813] Yes, but I don't remember what it means.

[814] So basically it's the idea that some species produce many offspring with the hope that very few will survive until sexual maturity.

[815] Alligator.

[816] Right.

[817] Right.

[818] Many fish.

[819] Pigs.

[820] Right.

[821] Although on that scale, they would be less so, versus, you know, the, the gestational period, the length of parental investment that is required before you reach sexual maturity as much.

[822] So it's either a lot of quantity, hoping that if you survive or much less quantity, but heavily parental investment.

[823] And just that, right, whether you are a species that is R or K selected, the reason for the RK term doesn't matter, has a profound effect on the evolutionary trajectory of that species.

[824] So things, for example, like humans are a bi -parental species, right?

[825] So even though males invest parental.

[826] less than females in the human context, we are really champion dads.

[827] I mean, in the greater context of mammals, human dads are just outlandishly good.

[828] Yeah, there's no one like us.

[829] Nothing like us, except, for example, penguins, but of course, are not mammals.

[830] So in the human context, then because we are biparental species, you would expect the evolution of a few things, one of which, and I actually recently, I discussed this in one of my lectures, because somebody asked that exact question.

[831] So the evolution of romantic love is, if you like, a solution to this very important problem, which is you and I, male -female, have to pair bond for a certain period of time.

[832] We have to be able to stand one another for a sufficiently large enough period of time to get our child to sexual maturity.

[833] And hence, there are selection pressures for us to evolve the affective system that we call romantic love.

[834] So this shows you how, depending on the particular history of the species, you get completely different interesting trajectories.

[835] That is fascinating, and it completely makes sense if you think about it.

[836] And there are certain animals like rats or mice.

[837] They're constantly being preyed upon.

[838] They have to develop large litters.

[839] Right.

[840] Here's another one.

[841] Here, coping with feral hogs.

[842] Oh, nice.

[843] Five and six pigs per litter, sows of approximately 1 .5 litters per year.

[844] Yeah, but when can they get pregnant?

[845] They get into the first litter when they're 13 months of age.

[846] Wow.

[847] They can be sexually mature at six months.

[848] What's their life expectancy?

[849] That's a good question.

[850] Is it say?

[851] 48 years of age.

[852] That's if they don't get killed by a cougar.

[853] So here's another one.

[854] You ready?

[855] Yes.

[856] All right.

[857] Check this out.

[858] So if you, you know what sexual dimorphism is?

[859] Yes.

[860] So, right?

[861] So humans are sexually dimorphic.

[862] But take, for example...

[863] Why don't you explain it to people who don't know what means.

[864] Oh, sorry, yes.

[865] So where there is an...

[866] innate sex difference.

[867] Typically, we talk about, for example, sexist, you're a sexist.

[868] I'm sex, I realize, yes.

[869] You know, sexual dimorphism is just a cultural contrast.

[870] It's a cultural construct.

[871] It's not real.

[872] And I like how you say it with the affectation of the wealthy person.

[873] I watch a woman in a video explain that women are not inherently weaker than men.

[874] Just engage in less strength -based activities.

[875] Oh, I've heard the exact same thing.

[876] That's hilarious.

[877] Well, actually, and it's even been linked to the fact that little boys are, encouraged to play rough house and tumble, whereas little girls are dissuaded from doing so, and that's what sets them on their trajectory so that Bubba, who plays center for University of Nebraska, can bench pets 500 pounds.

[878] It's completely social construction.

[879] It has nothing to do with muscle mass, nothing to do with testosterone.

[880] But anyway, so going back to differences across species.

[881] So sexual dimorphic, so some species are very sexually dimorphic.

[882] Elephant seals.

[883] You have a male who's massive, four times the size of a female or mountain gorillas, right?

[884] So if you look at the extent to which there is or isn't sexual dimorphism with the species, that itself perfectly predicts the mating system within that species, meaning if there is a huge sexual dimorphism, typically the males are bigger than the females, but sometimes you have a sexual reversal species, then you have pillogenous mating, Meaning what?

[885] One male monopolizes sexual access to many females.

[886] And the reason why they develop that size is because that's the combat that they engage in, where the winner then gets the genetic lottery.

[887] On the other hand, when you have species where the two sexes are equal -sized, then you have typically monogamous mating, like in the case of some bird species.

[888] But even there, by the way, even though they're supposed to be monogamous, once in a while they go behind the bush, genetic tests have shown.

[889] Well, birds are really only, like penguins are a big one that people bring up.

[890] But they're only monogamous for a year.

[891] Right.

[892] But even within what you consider to be a monogamous window, there are some tests that show that once in a while we do go behind the bushes.

[893] Behind the bushes with gas.

[894] I try to once in a while use my evolutionary stuff on my wife to explain why it might be okay to do this.

[895] She hasn't really bought into the whole thing.

[896] She needs to read more.

[897] Get her head out.

[898] out of the bushes.

[899] Exactly.

[900] Sand, wherever.

[901] By the way, incidentally, this whole idea of taking an evolutionary explanation and then people thinking that that then justifies or condones a behavior is a classic reason why people hate evolutionary psychology, right?

[902] So if you explain, you know, here's an evolutionary explanation for rape.

[903] Here's an evolutionary explanation for while child abuse happens if there's a step -parent in the family.

[904] Here's why people might have difficulty staying true to their monogamous unions, then people will get very upset at you because they somehow conflate the fact that you are explaining the phenomenon using science as meaning that you are saying it clears your moral judgment.

[905] And of course it doesn't, but that's one of the places where people get really upset at you and will send you hate mail.

[906] And that moral judgment is also cultural, which gets really strange when you look at certain religions like the Mormons.

[907] Right.

[908] Like the whole reason why the Mormons, Set up this compound in Mexico while they moved to Mexico was when polygamy was made illegal in the United States So they were like, well, we're just going to go to Mexico and that's where Mitt Romney's family came to him Which is really bizarre.

[909] And isn't it amazing how whenever there are these Polyginous rulings from God?

[910] It's always that it's one man with multiple women It's never been a polyandrous thing.

[911] It's never been the other way around.

[912] Yeah, women don't want to get gang bang.

[913] They don't want a bunch of dudes sticking out.

[914] Well, you know there is one place in the world where there is polyandry do you know where it is somewhere that sucks it's called Tibetan polyandry told you it's it's it's fraternal Tibetan polyandry fraternal yeah which means brothers and sisters no meaning a frat together meaning that the woman who is being shared across many men those men are brothers that's crazy but here's the evolutionary explanation right imagine where you have a system for whatever reason where not every man could be mated.

[915] Right.

[916] That's not a good thing because you have a lot of men who are going to be sexually frustrated, right?

[917] Like China.

[918] Exactly.

[919] So therefore, by creating a system where, okay, not everybody could be guaranteed that their reproductive fitness is going to be assured, but at least their kin selection will be assured.

[920] Meaning, I share half of my genes on average with my brother.

[921] So either I will impregnate the woman, in which case, great.

[922] or my brother will impregnate her, in which case I'm still indirectly, not through direct reproductive fitness, but through kin selection, I'm still extending my genes.

[923] So even in cases where men share a woman, it has to be in the context of all in the family.

[924] Whoa.

[925] I'm blowing your mind.

[926] That's an intense thing.

[927] And that must be just a reaction to the fact that there's much more men than there are women.

[928] And why would that be?

[929] Why are there more men than there are women?

[930] So I think, so sometimes it could be, that's called, by the way, an operational sex ratio if there are imbalances between males and females within a particular niche.

[931] Sometimes it could be because of certain inheritance structures where it's only the eldest who can have enough money through inheritance so the other guys can't really afford a while.

[932] So there are all sorts of institutional reasons beyond sex racial reasons where some men may otherwise be out of the mating market.

[933] And we know that societies where a lot of men are sitting around sexually frustrated are not going to be societies that are conducive to quiet.

[934] And so therefore, even in the context where you have something like polyandry, which is something that typically evolutionary speaking you wouldn't expect, when it arises, it arises as a response to a real evolutionary problem.

[935] So every, I mean, most things that you could think of ultimately have some evolutionary explanation to them.

[936] And that's why I fell in love with evolution, because the explanatory power that is afforded, once you have that key to understand things via evolutionary thinking, it becomes incredibly powerful.

[937] And once the parameters and the variables change, the behavior changes to adapt to those parameters and variables.

[938] Exactly right.

[939] A perfect example that is fighter pilots.

[940] Fighter pilots are classically wife swappers.

[941] Is that true?

[942] Yeah, there's a lot of that goes on in those communities because these people are swingers you mean yeah well sort of yeah well it's you know what it is they know that they're probably going to die and if they love their wife they want someone else to love their wife as much as they do and the idea is that if they all just share like life is it's different it's much more fleeting it's much more fragile than it is in the world of the accountant you know so i think it makes sense that that's it's very prevalent in those communities.

[943] So the, if you like, the sexual risk -taking is a form of insurance policy.

[944] Say, like, if you, you were married and Jamie was married, and you were both fighter pilots, and you both would do missions together.

[945] This is like an intense bond between you guys.

[946] And, you know, you would just swap wives.

[947] You would just say, look, you know, the idea is, like, if you die, if you get shot down and you die, you know, you want your wife to be taken care of by someone who loves her.

[948] Right.

[949] As long as they had a smaller penis than me. Jamie's got a hog I tell you he's got a hog on the kid But going So good luck with that Going back to By the way I'll send you the link To the Global Penis sizes Around the world And I'll just point you To where Lebanon scores on that How's it good Pretty good Is it Is it like Where people are like Where there's more danger Dicks are bigger I've never heard that This is the first time Well isn't like so danger is like one of the most dangerous places right danger and in an environment terms of violence and crime and like look if you classically let's this all let's put away all pretenses of racism right black guys supposedly have the biggest dicks right why is that do they have more athleticism too that's a lot of things that people connect to it so has that has that scientifically has that been absolutely proven you know it and I know I Let's let it go.

[950] I know that anecdotally we hear that.

[951] You're like, no, no, no, Lebanese.

[952] If you just check, it's Lebanese people.

[953] No, I mean, it's always...

[954] I know it's a stereotype, but I mean, I truly don't know whether it's scientific...

[955] I mean, there's a certain stereotypes that are just...

[956] There's a reason there.

[957] And that's a...

[958] That's one that is acceptable when you talk about black people.

[959] Yeah, because it's complimentary.

[960] Yeah, it's complimentary.

[961] Right, right, right.

[962] I'll tell you a great story about racial differences.

[963] So in 1995, I think it was...

[964] 1995 or 96.

[965] I'm giving a talk.

[966] So this is shortly after my PhD.

[967] I just started as a young assistant professor.

[968] I'm giving a talk at this big international psychology conference.

[969] And there's maybe 1 ,500 people in this room.

[970] And that's quite a big size for academic conference.

[971] And there's a real buzz in the room as if there's tension.

[972] And I'm not exactly sure why.

[973] There's certainly not tense about me at that point.

[974] I was just a young guy.

[975] Nobody knew who the hell I was.

[976] Immediately before I get up to present.

[977] So the guy who was immediately before me is a gentleman by name of Philip Rushden.

[978] Have you ever, do you know him?

[979] So Philip Rushden is a, he recently passed away, he was a Canadian -based psychologist who is probably the preeminent psychologist who studied racial differences and offered evolutionary explanations for why these racial differences might exist.

[980] And most notably he had looked at supposed racial differences in intelligence using a post -mortem cranial size, right?

[981] So the fact is that if the cranial cavity is bigger or smaller, then you assume that that means the person from this race is more intelligent than that race.

[982] It's controversial research, very, very spicy research.

[983] So anyways, so this guy gets up to present his stuff, and he starts putting up slides of, you know, black male, black female, white male, white female.

[984] And you see the, I mean, the crowd is like, you know, sharpening their knives to lynch the sky.

[985] and I have to get up and present right after him.

[986] And I'm thinking that just by proxy, just by being close to him, I'm going to get killed.

[987] Now, the good news is that immediately after he finished his presentation out of the about 1 ,500 people who were there, about 1 ,425 left the room to find him.

[988] Really?

[989] So there was like nearly no one left to listen to my talk.

[990] And that was one of the few times where I was actually very pleased to have very few people listening to me. So they left the room, and what do they do to him?

[991] Well, I think they wanted to sort of, you know, challenge him and confront him and so on.

[992] When a guy does a speech like that, does he allow a question -answer period?

[993] Very good question.

[994] So usually you would leave, depending on the size of the, I mean, let's say you have 25 minutes, so you might do 20 minutes leaving five minutes for Q &A.

[995] He went to the last second so that there was no opportunity for questions.

[996] and then he sort of, you know, was whisked out.

[997] And so I was really, really pleased that almost nobody stayed for my talk.

[998] What's interesting about that is there's certain truths that you're not allowed to explore.

[999] And you're not allowed to explore the possibility that some human beings may be not as intelligent as other human beings.

[1000] On an individual level or as in group level?

[1001] Well, I was going to...

[1002] Oh, sorry, go ahead.

[1003] As on an individual level, we accept that, but on a group level, we're not willing to.

[1004] On an individual level, we'll...

[1005] Some don't accept that at the individual level, even.

[1006] Well, they're retarded.

[1007] Well, that's why it's proof.

[1008] But it's interesting that, like, there's certain genetic variables that will accept that are a product of the environment in which these people develop.

[1009] Like, for instance, Inuits are much more adapted to cold.

[1010] Their hands don't get numb.

[1011] They don't get frostbite nearly as easy.

[1012] They can operate.

[1013] They have much better circulation in cold weather and their hands and their feet.

[1014] And it's because they've been living up there for generation after generation.

[1015] There's certain things that we don't accept though.

[1016] And one of the big ones is intelligence.

[1017] We don't accept that some people could live in a soft world where things are easy and they develop like a slow, lazy mind, whereas some people develop in a very tricky world with this constant innovation going on and they develop a sharper mind.

[1018] You know, we resist that because we don't want anyone things.

[1019] thinking that they're dumber than other people.

[1020] Right.

[1021] Well, the point, though, is that I'm not sure that anybody has offered compelling explanation for why there would be selection pressures in environment A versus environment B for there to be greater intelligence.

[1022] But there is some evidence that, especially European Jews, who have more Nobel Prize awards than anyone else.

[1023] Why do you have to diss me by saying European Jews?

[1024] Why don't you include the Arab Jews?

[1025] Well, it's true, though.

[1026] It's just because I'm Lebanese -Jew.

[1027] You're a very intelligent, man, obviously.

[1028] But I'm neither, well, I'm sort of European.

[1029] I'm Italian.

[1030] Right.

[1031] You know, there's something fascinating about that to me. And I wonder if that's cultural.

[1032] I wonder if that's educational.

[1033] I mean, what is that?

[1034] So I can certainly definitively point to the cultural element.

[1035] Right.

[1036] The genetic element is debatable.

[1037] Right.

[1038] And so it's neither yes or no, it's unclear.

[1039] But the cultural element, I'll share with you a personal anecdote.

[1040] I don't think I've ever shared it on this show before.

[1041] If I have, it's still worth repeating.

[1042] After I finished my MBA, I mean, I knew I was going to go on and do my PhD and become a professor.

[1043] But at one point, I had a brother who lives in Southern California.

[1044] It was a very successful businessman.

[1045] And I was coming out here to see whether I wanted to go and do my PhD at UC Irvine versus other schools where I had been accepted.

[1046] And he said, hey, you know what, why don't you put on the proverbial suit and maybe work with me for a few years before you go on to get.

[1047] your PhD.

[1048] It might be a nice thing for you to get some work experience outside of academia.

[1049] I wasn't really entertaining it, but my mother heard of this possibility.

[1050] And so when I went back to Montreal, she took me aside to one of the rooms and very, very concerned, she said to me, remember, if you don't go on to get your PhD, I mean, do you want people to remember you as somebody who's dropped out of school?

[1051] So from her perspective, from the standards that were expected, somebody who would, you know, I'd gotten an undergrad in mathematics and computer science and I'd gotten an MBA.

[1052] If I stopped at that point, I would be a dropout.

[1053] I'm a dropout from school.

[1054] I have an MBA from the top school, right?

[1055] Now, of course, I didn't do a PhD for my parents' approval, but it just gives you a sense of the type of expectations, the imparting of love for learning, for knowledge, for wisdom.

[1056] And achievement.

[1057] an achievement, that is inbred in you from the minute you come out of the womb.

[1058] So whether there is a genetic component or not, I don't know, but I can certainly say that the environmental component is very alluring.

[1059] The cultural component.

[1060] It exists very strong in the Korean community.

[1061] Exactly right.

[1062] A good buddy of mine when I was a kid who's Korean, who was on the U .S. national taekwondo team while he was in his residency as a doctor.

[1063] There you go.

[1064] I mean, he was a fucking animal, this kid.

[1065] I mean, he, I've never met any.

[1066] anybody who worked harder.

[1067] He slept like three or four hours a night.

[1068] He was always exhausted.

[1069] Every time he looked at me, he had giant bags under his eyes.

[1070] And he couldn't possibly have physically worked harder than he did.

[1071] He did everything he possibly could, won the U .S. national title, went on to compete in international competitions, all while he was going to medical school.

[1072] Incredible.

[1073] Madness.

[1074] And the way he described it to me, you know, it was more of a prison the way he described it.

[1075] He was just burdened.

[1076] He was always tired.

[1077] And it was just a expected of him he was really upset by it yeah it's not quite as i wouldn't i don't know what the right term is autocratic or dictatorial i think it's it's more uh debating right i mean think of for example the talmudic tradition right you sit there and you debate you discuss you debate so this this there's this endless uh inculcation of the pursuit of knowledge just for the sake of knowledge that is endemic to you know all Jewish homes right and to to the extent that some of my family members did not have that particular orientation frankly I didn't get along with them as well because I have some family members who are quite mercantile in their approach they just care about money and I was always maybe to a fault somebody who cared more about ideas than I did about money what could be a fault how could there be a fault there in in not pursuing yeah well in the sense, for example, that I'm not a careerist.

[1078] In other words, I do things out of purity.

[1079] I don't strategize.

[1080] Sounds like an awesome dude.

[1081] Well, thank you.

[1082] I'll give you a very concrete example, right?

[1083] You were asking earlier, you know, why don't you get a job here?

[1084] Well, listen, by me taking very open positions on topics that are, quote, politically incorrect, I'm not being a careerist.

[1085] If I would shut my mouth about all these issues, maybe some university that might otherwise be very impressed with my scientific dossier might say hey this is this guy's good but if he's a shitster if he appears on joe rogan and makes fun of trigger warnings and talks about Islam well he's a bit of a of a loose canon this is why i disagree the amount of input that you can have on on a culture based out of teaching a classroom of a hundred people or more whatever it is in comparison to what you're doing already on your youtube videos thank you it's it's phenomenal the reach that you have now.

[1086] I'm going to send this to some of the universities that are supposed to hire me. Well, they don't look, they're all in the past.

[1087] You know, these people, they don't understand what's going on right now.

[1088] Right now, there's a podcast that you're doing right now that will be heard and watched by more than a million people, for sure, without a doubt.

[1089] Not only that, it'll exist in perpetuity.

[1090] As long as we have digital content, it'll exist.

[1091] So there's people listening to this right now, 50 years from now, 100 years from now.

[1092] If they're still alive, if there's still a world to live in 100 years now, people are going to be listening to this.

[1093] You know, you are literally music to my ears, what you're saying, because I just had this conversation recently where I was talking to a university about the importance, actually to a dean where I was talking about the importance of how do we judge academics.

[1094] I mean, academics are meme creators, right?

[1095] We create memes through our science, but we're also meme propagators.

[1096] Now, to me, one of the highlights of coming to Southern California, and that's saying a lot, given how much I love Southern California, is to appear on your show because I know that the platform that you have, it'll take me 16 ,000 years to be able to even come close to achieving that type of, and it's not because of a narcissist thing I want to be famous, because ultimately I'm about spreading ideas, and it's exactly what you said.

[1097] I mean, a million people are going to listen to.

[1098] So if I can get 1 % of that million to be interested in evolutionary theory after what we've discussed, how does that compare to having 25 students in my classroom?

[1099] But most universities, you're exactly right, haven't caught up with the times.

[1100] No one has.

[1101] Well, university itself, okay, this is not the only way you can learn.

[1102] These ideas that the only way to get an education is to get a degree, to go, to sit in class, to do all the work the teacher prescribes, all the stuff that you have to turn in and all the papers that you have to do, that's not the only way to get an education.

[1103] That's nonsense.

[1104] It's a human construct, and we're living in a world where that doesn't make much sense anymore.

[1105] You're going to have, in the future, primary education is going to be online.

[1106] It's without a doubt.

[1107] Why travel somewhere?

[1108] Why go somewhere?

[1109] Especially when you're dealing with all these fucking assholes and these campuses that are instituting all these ridiculous rules on social behavior and all these social misfits that want to level the playing field and all this nonsense that's going on.

[1110] That's really, it's stifling.

[1111] It stifles a lot of open discussion.

[1112] It stifles a lot of exchanges of information because of these ideas these people have, that these rigid ideas that cannot be breached.

[1113] I think we're living in a world now where you have instant access to information.

[1114] To go to a physical place to learn seems to me to be kind of archaic.

[1115] It's kind of retro.

[1116] Listen, I was just recently asked, maybe I shouldn't be commenting publicly, but I go ahead and do it.

[1117] there's a company called Great Courses.

[1118] Have you heard of them?

[1119] Yeah, they were a sponsor of the podcast in the beginning.

[1120] No kidding.

[1121] Yeah, I have one of them at home on psychology.

[1122] So I was honored to be asked to, it hasn't yet, we haven't signed a contract, they're still looking into it, but the mere fact that they contacted me as one of the prospective people to put together a course for them, a great courses course on, you know, evolution and psychology and so on.

[1123] That's awesome.

[1124] Thank you.

[1125] So, I mean, imagine the number of people that I can potentially reach by putting together that course.

[1126] Look, there's this guy, you should, by the way, check him out.

[1127] Robert Sapolsky.

[1128] Yeah, I know very well.

[1129] No kidding.

[1130] Yeah, from Stanford.

[1131] I'm a big fan of his work on toxoplasmosis.

[1132] I've been studying him for years.

[1133] Look at this.

[1134] And his stuff on baboons.

[1135] Isn't it mind -boy?

[1136] Oh my God.

[1137] So he spends like months every year in Africa.

[1138] Have you seen all his YouTube clips?

[1139] Yeah, I'm a big fan of that guy.

[1140] So anyway, so I wrote to him, by the way, maybe I shouldn't be advertising a failure, but it's okay.

[1141] So I wrote to him.

[1142] because I really wanted him on my show.

[1143] Right.

[1144] And he was very gracious.

[1145] He responded right away.

[1146] He said, look, I'd love to, you know, so on.

[1147] I'm just, I'm working, I think, on two books.

[1148] I'm shutting down everything.

[1149] I'm saying no to everybody, maybe some point in the future.

[1150] Which, of course, I completely understand.

[1151] Right.

[1152] But, you know, look at this guy.

[1153] I mean, you go to his YouTube, you know, whatever, 900 ,000 views, 1 .1 million of, you know, of a lecture that typically would have been viewed by 80 people, right?

[1154] I bet I sent a couple hundred thousand people.

[1155] to those things.

[1156] I'm a big fan of that guy.

[1157] I've been sending people to his videos and his lectures for years.

[1158] So let's talk about one of the findings from his work.

[1159] Do you want to do that?

[1160] Sure.

[1161] So he's got research, because you mentioned baboons, showing that in a sort of hierarchical society of baboons, the lower ranked baboons will have higher cortisol levels, will have more stress hormones.

[1162] While intuitively, you might think the opposite.

[1163] that they hire the rank of the baboon, the more stressed he is because he has to defend against all the other dangers and maintain his position and so on.

[1164] So people took this exact study and applied it in an organizational context where they looked at an organizational hierarchy and took cortisol levels of people in a big organization.

[1165] I think it was the public health system in Britain, the higher the rank of the employee, the lower his or her cortisol level.

[1166] And the argument, so you might say, well, why would that be?

[1167] Wouldn't the person who is higher rank be more stressed?

[1168] I mean, a CEO has to have more stress than, you know, the janitor.

[1169] And one of the arguments, at least that they proposed, was the idea of freedom.

[1170] The guy who's at the lowest rung of the hierarchy has to be told when he could go and relieve himself with his bodily functions, right?

[1171] I mean, his, the amount of free destiny that he has in his daily life is very limited, whereas at least the CEO, even though he's working very hard, he's more master of his, of his daily life.

[1172] So for example, I work all the time.

[1173] I can work 10, 12, 15, 18 hour days, but yet I still, I feel like I'm always free because there's nobody who's telling me what to do at any time.

[1174] And apparently just that has a profound effect on your cortisol levels.

[1175] And the origins of that whole study were originally due to Sapolsky's work with baboons, if I believe, if I'm correct.

[1176] Well, you know, that finding is mirrored in special ops guys versus, versus enlisted men, versus your average soldier, like, one of the big issues that people have today is PTSD.

[1177] Right.

[1178] And one of the factors in PTSD is people who are waiting for things to happen versus people who are making things happen.

[1179] Whereas seals, rangers, people that they send in to go and kick ass and take names, those guys have way less stress, which is kind of crazy.

[1180] Way less instances of PTSD and, you know, obviously, it's still tremendously stressful and still a lot of instances of PTSD, but less.

[1181] And the more guys that I talk to that have served will tell you that the reason is that they're active, that they're proactive, they're the ones who are moving in and doing these things.

[1182] And they're going after these bad guys and hunting them down, essentially.

[1183] Whereas the other people are sitting around the base worrying they're going to get attacked or, you know, staying on their post or driving in a car worrying they're going to hit an IED.

[1184] Very interesting.

[1185] So let's propose another hypothesis, maybe somebody who's a graduate student might test.

[1186] Coaches versus players.

[1187] So based on your logic of the final you just said, the coach should probably have much higher, cortisol levels because it's out of its control that's why you see them on the sidelines freaking out freaking out going crazy because you really can't affect much influence on the game right I mean you can at the margins in terms of the strategies and so on but the guys that are in the battle I mean I you know I was a competitive soccer player and of course you're an athlete I mean a few minutes before you've got butterflies once you're in the thick of things you're not stressed I mean you're focused I mean you're in the flow but the coaches they're the ones who are about to have a hard time So I think you can test that.

[1188] That is probably also a big factor why it's so difficult to beat a champion in combat sports because the champion is the one who's in control and the champion is the one has been dominating.

[1189] He has fear and intimidation on his side, therefore he has less stress.

[1190] Right.

[1191] He's been, I mean, he's going to have stress no matter what if you're entering into a fight, but the person who's trying to overcome the psychological barrier that is the champion in front of them, like this is big, you know, there's a persona that's attached.

[1192] A good example is like Mike Tyson when he was in his prime.

[1193] Nobody wanted to believe that he could be beaten and men would lose before they ever got into the ring.

[1194] Then Buster Douglas came.

[1195] Yeah, he did.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] Have you ever seen this study?

[1198] And I don't know if we've mentioned it here before.

[1199] I think it was published in a journal called Emotion where they looked at, I think it was MMA fighters, whether they smiled or not before the contest.

[1200] Have you seen this before?

[1201] No. Okay.

[1202] Just send me a private message and I'll look for it.

[1203] I can't remember the exact details, but there was some nonverbal cues that were studied prior to a fight that if I remember the study correctly, were highly predictive of the eventual outcome.

[1204] Wow, that's fascinating.

[1205] Is that cool?

[1206] Well, I bet they're highly predictive of the amount of focus that the fighters entering to the octagon with.

[1207] Here he goes.

[1208] Smiles are for losers.

[1209] Oh, there you go.

[1210] I love how you come up with this.

[1211] Studies show that MMA fighters who smile before fights don't do well.

[1212] Well, this is at a way in, which I doubt you can.

[1213] really tell.

[1214] Is that what they're saying?

[1215] The pre -fight stare -down.

[1216] Okay.

[1217] So the pre -fight stare -down.

[1218] Well, that makes sense because if you're smiling, it most likely means that you're not really in the game.

[1219] Right.

[1220] As expected, smile intensity predicted both the outcomes of fights as well as the more detailed measures of infight hostility.

[1221] Interestingly, the smiles predicted both reduced hostility from the smiler as well as increased hostility from his opponent.

[1222] In other words, it seemed that both fighters were attuned.

[1223] to the information being communicated in the pre -fight smile.

[1224] These results held even when controlling for existing differences in skill, i .e., the betting odds of the fight and strength, height, and weight.

[1225] Though don't go drastically altering your gambling strategy just yet, the betting line still did a better job overall in predicting fights compared to just smile intensity.

[1226] Yeah.

[1227] Huh.

[1228] Have you, have we talked here about digit ratio?

[1229] Yes.

[1230] No, but I know what you're talking about, though, like the size of, fingers and length.

[1231] Well, not the relative length.

[1232] I've always, I've actually, I think I've thought about at some point either asking you or my nephew to get access to MMA fighters to take some measures that capture how androgynized they are, how much exposure to testosterone of that.

[1233] Whether it be, for example, through certain facial features or through, well, their 2D4D ratio, which is a measure.

[1234] of how much testosterone you've been exposed to in utero.

[1235] And so I actually have a study right now with one of my graduate students, Vlad Iremia, where we're looking at the links between testosterone and extreme sports using the exact same idea.

[1236] And so I'm, of course, an obvious hypothesis might be that on average, MMA fighters compared to a control normal population, non -fighters, will be more androgyized.

[1237] You would think that that has to be true, right?

[1238] Um, I don't know.

[1239] Okay.

[1240] Because I would wonder what are the, I would say maybe probably successful ones.

[1241] I see.

[1242] You know.

[1243] So we're moderated by whether they're, what their trajectory in their career was.

[1244] I think there are a lot of people who enter into mixed martial arts or martial arts in general because they recognize there's a lot of benefit in trying to overcome extreme challenges and that they're attracted to these things because they get addicted to the rush, the adrenaline rush of a challenge.

[1245] And it's very few challenges that are intense as one -on -one competition with another person.

[1246] And I think there's a lot of people who gravitate towards those, not necessarily even, it seems counterintuitive, but you would think that they would be the most violent people or the most angry people, and they're doing that because they want to dominate.

[1247] Well, mixed martial arts is different in a lot of ways.

[1248] First of all, because in boxing, a lot of times you're seeing people that are searching for a way out.

[1249] They're searching for a way out of poverty.

[1250] They're searching for a way out of bad neighborhoods and crime, and they do so through fighting.

[1251] It's a classic meme, right?

[1252] It's a classic trope.

[1253] But I think there's something going on with MMA fighters that's very different in that martial arts seem to be something that costs money.

[1254] And so to join these classes and get proficient, you have to be able to afford them.

[1255] And so you're getting people that enter into martial arts from.

[1256] two different venues, right?

[1257] You get wrestlers who classically get it from school.

[1258] Like, Greek Roman wrestlers, you mean?

[1259] Freestyle or Greco -Roman, you know, depending on, it doesn't matter.

[1260] There's successful examples of both.

[1261] And wrestling is probably one of the most important skills to have, if not the most important, in MMA, because the fighter can dictate where the fight takes place.

[1262] If a really strong wrestler takes you down, he can control you, whereas if you're a really good kickboxer, your kickboxing can't really be effective if someone can take you down.

[1263] it will.

[1264] So there's that, there's the wrestling which they get in college and they get in high school, which is, you know, at least fairly free.

[1265] College, if they have a scholarship, they get it for free.

[1266] But martial arts, like jujitsu and kickboxing and things along those lines, taekwendoo, karate, traditional martial arts, it costs money to take those things.

[1267] So you're seeing a lot of very educated people that are getting into MMA.

[1268] There's a lot of MMA fighters that are extremely articulate.

[1269] Wasn't there a guy who was a biology teacher or something?

[1270] Math teacher.

[1271] Rich Franklin, who was a former champion, yeah, he was UFC champion.

[1272] Very smart guy, very smart guy.

[1273] And there's a lot of other very, very intelligent guys, speak multiple languages, you know, really brilliant people.

[1274] So you get, it's a different style of fighter, you know, I think there's people out there that are fighting because they were abused as a child, they were bullied, and then they have this anger inside of them, they want to express it.

[1275] So you get a lot of that, but you also get people that just.

[1276] You know, they're just tough.

[1277] They're just tough and they want to overcome challenges and they get some sort of benefit out of these extreme challenges.

[1278] So I would wonder, you know, I would wonder what the results of that would be.

[1279] What about this?

[1280] I think this is probably an obvious hypothesis, but do you think that if one were to take salivary assays to measure testosterone levels, pre -fight, post -fight, and post -fight you're looking at the the winner and the loser, clearly the testosterone scores would assort along, whether I won or lost.

[1281] Oh, sure.

[1282] Well, also, dependent upon how much brain damage they acquired during the fight, that has a pretty significant effect on your pituitary gland, apparently.

[1283] I had, by the way, since you're a stand -up professional stand -up comedian, one of my former students of postdoc who had, I think I want to mention, he studied evolutionary roots of humor.

[1284] And so one of the things that we wanted to study when he was doing his postdoc with me, but then he ended up leaving after a year to take a position, anyways, was to use the Montreal just for laugh festivals to study the testosterone responses of comedians, you know, prior to getting on stage and then after finishing.

[1285] And to see whether their testosterone response would be moderated by whether, objectively speaking, it was a successful successful set or not, right?

[1286] I mean, sometimes you get up and you just kill the house.

[1287] Other times it's death silent, right?

[1288] So will my endocrinological system response track that reality?

[1289] And so that's something that I still hopefully will test with some future student.

[1290] What do you think?

[1291] You think that's a viable hypothesis?

[1292] Yeah, definitely.

[1293] I think with bombing especially comes to depression.

[1294] Oh, yeah, definitely.

[1295] It's a horrible feeling.

[1296] Yeah.

[1297] I can't imagine there would be any benefit to bombing.

[1298] You know, other than maybe your testosterone would spike because you would need the energy to run away from the crowd.

[1299] Now, do you, let's say when you're, when you are doing a show and you feel as though it's not going well, are you ever able to redirect the ship or do you, or is there a point where there's no return, I'm going to suck today?

[1300] It's just not working.

[1301] I'm not connecting.

[1302] There's both.

[1303] There's definitely times where you're not getting out of the hole, you know, you could dig yourself into a hole.

[1304] you can't get out of what what determines that is it that your delivery that day is not working or is it there's something endemic to the crowd that for whatever reason they're just not digging your style it's uh all the above there's uh it could be your delivery it could be your subject matter it could be an event something that went on with the audience it could be the way you're reacting to them that you chose a path that was ineffective it could be you were making fun of them but that got them to gang up more on you it could certainly be that it could there's a lot of variables involved in whether or not you go down with the ship but also it could be that you didn't address it you know sometimes things are going bad and a guy will address that it's going bad and they pull themselves out of it and then it becomes great again right i've seen that i've done that i've had like bad moments where you address that bad moment and things snap back or you you know you just you reassess your approach it there's a lot of variables involved in stand -up comedy, but ultimately what's going on.

[1305] I've tried to explain this and I've gone over this with many, many comedian friends of mine.

[1306] We all seem to agree on this.

[1307] There's a moment where things are going really well where the audience is laughing and you're in the zone and you're delivering your jokes that you've prepared for a long time.

[1308] Everything's done right.

[1309] There's a lot of great timing and everything.

[1310] It's a mass hypnosis.

[1311] It's like when I watch a really funny comedian, if I watch Bill Burr, for say, when he's a lot of, when he's on stage and he's killing and I'm watching and I'm laughing my ass off what I am doing is allowing him to think for me right so I'm allowing him to you know if he's talking about having a female president or something like that he's going through his thought process of what it would be like blah blah blah blah blah and as he's going through it I am I'm not really doing any calculations I'm allowing him to do all those calculations I'm allowing him to take up all of my thought process with his sentences and the images that he's depicting.

[1312] And that's what makes it really funny.

[1313] And the whole audience, we're all in it together.

[1314] So there's a community effect of this group hypnosis.

[1315] So we're all laughing because we're all on the same page.

[1316] And we're all, like, these thoughts that he's saying are so funny and we're all going along with it.

[1317] But when someone's bad or when the joke doesn't work, then everybody's like, oh, Christ.

[1318] Oh, no, this isn't working.

[1319] Oh, no. And you look around and see everybody else is uncomfortable.

[1320] And then you see he's uncomfortable And they're like, oh, Jesus, he's, he's bombing right now And when someone's bombing, then You're forced completely out of the spell And now you have to do all these calculations You have to think, you have to do all this There's all this considerations going on There's a lot happening That wouldn't be happening if a guy was just killing When someone's killing, it's effortless to watch You're just laughing and oh And then you leave, you feel great So it's when it goes bad It's uncomfortable for everybody It's uncomfortable for the audience, It's uncomfortable for the comedian.

[1321] It's just because you're forced to consider his process, his failures or her failures, her bad jokes, all those things.

[1322] Do you think there are certain elements of humor?

[1323] I mean, clearly there are culture -specific manifestations of humor.

[1324] Maybe physical comedy is more appreciated in culture A than culture B. But are there specific humor mechanisms that are, or not mechanism, but, you know, whatever.

[1325] humor content that would be universally successful no oh so you think it's always culture dependent culture dependent um culture dependent uh taste dependent there's certain styles of humor that some people really enjoy and other people hate you know some people like alt humor which is like keep the mic in the stand don't move deadpan delivery put very little effort forth some people like that that's what they prefer the balding guy with the curly hair balding guy with the curly hair from like 20 years ago he speaks with a very oh Stephen Wright yeah well he's an absurdist what is that oh absurd yeah he's like used to work at a fire hydrant factory couldn't park anywhere near the place you know it's like that's that's right you know he's that kind of comedy he's like it's all like really bizarre absurd one -liners um so that's not alt That's just really funny and original.

[1326] And Alt is a lot of times really bad, you know, unfortunately.

[1327] And the really super supportive crowds that gathered together.

[1328] It's almost like they got kicked out of the cool playground, so they made their own playground.

[1329] Right.

[1330] And there's a comedy festival that's going on right now or supposed to be going on somewhere in New York where somebody sent me this thing.

[1331] And I looked at it for a couple seconds.

[1332] I have to throw it away.

[1333] I just like, I can't even get into this where there are.

[1334] charging different amounts for and different access to people who are white males.

[1335] They want to have as few white males as possible, so they want to make it as diverse as possible.

[1336] So they're opening it up to people of color, LB, G, T, Q, X, Y, Z. And this is like, this is their solution.

[1337] Their solution is to not just have the funniest people that they think are there, regardless of race, color, creed ethnicity.

[1338] Nope.

[1339] Nope.

[1340] Exclude the white men.

[1341] And token white bearded men is one of the things that they discussed.

[1342] And by the way, the people that run the group are all women.

[1343] It's hilarious.

[1344] I mean, if you want to run a festival, you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want.

[1345] But the idea that you want to run an art festival, but you want to exclude certain people, like pick the best ones.

[1346] How about pick the best ones?

[1347] If the best ones turn out to be white men with beards, go with that information and try to figure out why that's the case.

[1348] So from that perspective, are we to assume that I now know what your position is on affirmative action?

[1349] Well, my position on affirmative action is I think it has good intentions.

[1350] I think the idea is to try to stop racism.

[1351] However, if you're getting someone and they become a firefighter, but they're less physically fit and less intelligent than someone who could have gotten the job, but unfortunately the other guy was of Croatian descent.

[1352] Right.

[1353] You know, and, you know, he looks like a white man who's privileged, you know, but meanwhile, this guy came from a family of very poor immigrants who struggled and scratched and scraped.

[1354] And, you know, people could look at him as the oppressor, which is fucking preposterous.

[1355] You know, there's a lot of that going on.

[1356] Yeah.

[1357] And I think that's ridiculous.

[1358] So I think that...

[1359] I agree with that.

[1360] Yeah, I think this idea of people who all have a certain amount of melanin in their skin, they should get a job versus people who don't have melanin in their skin.

[1361] That's stupid.

[1362] Right.

[1363] I think we should address the core problem, which is why, why is it harder for people who grow up in African -American communities or Mexican -American communities?

[1364] Why is it harder for them to get a better education?

[1365] Why is it harder for them to succeed?

[1366] Why is it harder for them to resist crime?

[1367] Why are they involved in these impoverished areas?

[1368] And how do we fix that?

[1369] So you know what, Larry...

[1370] How do we balance that out?

[1371] You know who Larry Elder is, the sage of L .A.?

[1372] Have you ever had him on the show?

[1373] No, but I will.

[1374] He and I have been going back and forth through Twitter.

[1375] Of course, you know what his answer would be to?

[1376] Well, he's an African American.

[1377] He's also...

[1378] But he would say, what is the reason for all the things that you said, why this, why that father absence?

[1379] Mm -hmm.

[1380] Now, I don't know whether he is overusing that causal factor, but he certainly seems to be quoting a lot of data that suggests that many of these sort of deleterious downstream effects are due.

[1381] to nothing more than father absence.

[1382] Solve that problem and many of these issues would go away.

[1383] Well, I think that's a little simplistic.

[1384] Yeah, it is.

[1385] Because if your dad's a fucking piece of shit and he lives in your house, you've got a real problem.

[1386] I don't think that's necessarily the only way to do it.

[1387] And I think you can't just blame.

[1388] I think one of the things that we were talking about earlier that I think is really important is that cultures become patterns and patterns repeat.

[1389] And that these patterns that these people are born into, it's not their choice.

[1390] and we recognize it as someone who wasn't born in that pattern.

[1391] You look at a bad pattern of someone being born, say, like in Baltimore, an extremely impoverished community, it's filled with crime and gang violence.

[1392] And you go, God, how do we, how does this get corrected?

[1393] How do we do?

[1394] You know, I had Michael Wood on, who's an interesting guy, who was a former cop in Baltimore, and a really, really interesting dude.

[1395] And I think he's trying to run for, like, he's trying to be a police commissioner in Chicago, right?

[1396] Yeah, he applied for it.

[1397] Yeah.

[1398] And, you know, I think he would.

[1399] be a great person for that job.

[1400] He's got a lot of information and a lot of really, he's very smart, a lot of common sense when it comes to this.

[1401] But one of the things that Michael Wood was talking about when he was on the podcast was that they had found, I guess, a directive from the 1970s when they were going through the archives or all the shit that they have in Baltimore, the police directive from the 1970s was exactly the same as what he was dealing with in the 2000s.

[1402] as far as the neighborhoods that had drugs, the neighborhoods with crime.

[1403] He's like, it's the same pattern.

[1404] We're repeating the same patterns over and over and over again, and no one has done anything to try to socially engineer some beneficial change in these communities.

[1405] Instead, they just continue to lock up the same people.

[1406] And I agree with him that it's essentially, at that point, it becomes institutionalized racism.

[1407] Right.

[1408] And that's a real issue.

[1409] And I think that's the issue that needs to be addressed.

[1410] And I don't think that affirmative action is the best way to do it because I think that also it starts to produce this feeling of resentment from people that are more qualified that don't get the jobs.

[1411] Well, and I would think, let's say, for the black applicant who, let's say, goes to law school, they will never know whether they went through the whole process simply on their merit or whether they were helped in some way.

[1412] And I think that itself is injuries.

[1413] Well, won't they know, though, but if they graduate?

[1414] No, no, no. What I mean is when you got in, did you get in strictly on the merits of your dossier?

[1415] Let's suppose I actually don't want, I'm a person of color, and I don't want anything to be affecting the decision other than purely the merits of my dossier.

[1416] Okay.

[1417] So now I go through the process.

[1418] At the end of that process, I won't absolutely know for sure whether it was strictly based on what I wanted, which is the merit of my dossier, whether there was something that helped me along the way because of this institutional law is affirmative action.

[1419] Yeah.

[1420] Isn't that a bit problematic?

[1421] I guess it could be, but I would assume that by the time you've gone through university, you know, now you're talking about a much higher level of education and it should be pretty, I hate to use the term black and white, but it should be right there.

[1422] I mean, you should see their grades and you see, so our, our black applicants.

[1423] Professors are hired as a function of these things.

[1424] I once applied.

[1425] For real?

[1426] I'll say this here publicly.

[1427] I once applied, so this is, I was, you know, coming out on the market, finishing my Ph .D. you're on the market like a cow or something the academic market and the way academic market works is you you interview round one and then in one place all the schools come there and then in round two they invite you for a campus visit and so I had been I was interviewing at one of the most prestigious places that you could ever hope to imagine it's actually from your neck of the woods in Boston okay Harvard right maybe I shouldn't have said that too late I don't think you said it I did Yeah, right.

[1428] So I'm not admitting whether that's true or not.

[1429] Okay.

[1430] But apparently I was one of the finalists and at least I had heard from some people who were maybe on the inside that they were really looking for a woman and that to the extent that I might not be able to ovulate might be a problem.

[1431] So I don't know if that ended up being the main reason why I didn't get the job.

[1432] But I've often heard that.

[1433] You know, you're not of the right race.

[1434] We need more diversity.

[1435] We need more gender diversity.

[1436] We need more racial diversity.

[1437] How do you get diversity and make it fair and even, though?

[1438] I mean, how is that ever achieved?

[1439] Well, frankly, I think it's grotesque.

[1440] Look, there was a, I don't know if you saw, I had a sad truth clip where I titled it, the all -time greatest social justice warriors.

[1441] It was based on a group of Dartmouth students that had occupied, I think, the president's office with a set of, have you seen this?

[1442] No. It's about the Freedom Project.

[1443] Maybe you could put it up.

[1444] So the Dartmouth Freedom Project, where they had sort of like a, manifesto here are the things that we absolutely expect Dartmouth to implement okay if you saw that list and I go through some of that on my YouTube channel it's simply baffling you know we have to have a professor of color speaker series I mean think about that right I mean so if if I'm a number theorist I'm a mathematician does the amount of melanin that I have determine how I study the distribution of prime numbers.

[1445] The idea that you would have students demanding that there be a person of color speaker series, I mean, it's grotesque, right?

[1446] I mean, nobody's denying the fact that racism has existed and to some extent continues to exist.

[1447] But to have these types of demands to me seems problematic.

[1448] Well, I definitely don't think it's the most intellectual approach to the issue at hand, which is combating racism.

[1449] Right.

[1450] I don't think it's making, instead of having an even playing field for all and considering all with equal merit to change the level of the playing field and boost people up that aren't qualified.

[1451] I think that's, you're talking also about the end result.

[1452] You're talking about like the finished product of an education, you know, I mean, literally at the highest level, a professor.

[1453] Right.

[1454] So I think that if you're looking at that, it really, it all comes down to what is it that's making certain people, how.

[1455] less opportunity.

[1456] And that needs to be engineered from a societal level, from a culture level.

[1457] I've said this many, many times that the biggest issue with any culture is the weakest link, right?

[1458] But what's the best way to have a more successful country?

[1459] What's the best way to have a more successful union?

[1460] Well, less losers.

[1461] Well, how do you have less losers?

[1462] You give more people education, more people chances, and more people who are disenfranchised and who are stuck in these bad situations, give them an opportunity to get out some way or another, whether it's through continued education, whether it's through community centers, whether it's through combat.

[1463] I mean, what Larry Elder is talking about, about not having fathers, boy, well, we can't just say, fuck them, they should have a dad, the dad should get involved.

[1464] You're not going to fix people like that.

[1465] The children are the ones that they're still malleable and still have potential.

[1466] So we have to figure out a way to provide them with some sort of resources, some sort of, some sort of mentorship, you know, some hope.

[1467] You know, I don't know how to do that, though.

[1468] Let me thread through this carefully because it's a thorny topic.

[1469] Earlier we spoke about the culture of achievement that we find that is endemic within Jewish homes.

[1470] Yes.

[1471] By the same token, do you think that other cultures might be creating environments that are exactly the opposite of that?

[1472] In other words, yes, there might be some endemic institutional reasons why people don't succeed, but there are also individual responsibility or collective responsibility within the family or the culture.

[1473] I think just alluding to that will cause people to level an accusation of racism against you.

[1474] Right?

[1475] I mean, think about Bill Cosby.

[1476] Bill Cosby, I know he's not popular now, but at one point he was walking around and saying exactly that, right, that blacks have to take responsibility for some of their failures.

[1477] And he was, that message was not very well received.

[1478] Well, you know, he's saying it from an easy place.

[1479] He's saying it from someone who's very successful.

[1480] Right.

[1481] You know, I think people imitate their atmosphere.

[1482] I think cultures exist because it's easy to pattern yourself around what's around you.

[1483] and that exists in a religious sense and it exists in a behavioral sense.

[1484] You become a lot like the people that you surround yourself with.

[1485] It's why it's so important to surround yourself with positive people.

[1486] It's one of the most important lessons you could ever learn as a human being.

[1487] The more positive people you surround yourself with, the more you'll aspire to be like them, the more you have a high standard that exists all around you.

[1488] Well, if you're fucked and you grow up in a place without, with no hope and a lot of despair.

[1489] I mean, I remember when I first moved to New York when I was in my really early 20s, and I didn't really have that many friends at first.

[1490] And I had a few friends that I just, I was really disappointed with them.

[1491] And one of them, because he just would say so much racist shit, it would drive me crazy.

[1492] And I just, I was like, God damn it.

[1493] Like, I can't find friends like I had in Boston.

[1494] You know, I was, I had a bunch of knuckleheads that I was, I knew and I needed to establish, you know, it takes a while when, especially when you're young, by the way, no internet back then.

[1495] So you're trying to find good friends and friends that were like in my profession as stand -up comics.

[1496] So I had to like, you know, get closer to a few people that are in these communities.

[1497] And it took a long time, but I remember feeling really depressed when I first moved there.

[1498] And it was, it was a cause for me to reconsider moving back to Boston.

[1499] It was at one point in time, even though I had just signed with this new manager that's still my manager to this day.

[1500] And there's all this hope and promise that, like, wow, I'm actually going to have a career now.

[1501] I was so bummed out by the people that I was around with that I would go back to Boston and do gigs.

[1502] And I'd be like, fuck, I want to move back here, man. Because I was like, Boston for all of its faults and, you know, is a very smart place.

[1503] And as is New York.

[1504] But I had just, I had infiltrated into a really great.

[1505] community in Boston, and I hadn't done that yet in New York.

[1506] So this is a very small, you know, obviously a couple of years later I was fine, but it was when you're not around positive people, it doesn't feel good.

[1507] I was living in Newark, New Jersey when I first moved there, because that's where my grandfather lived, and I didn't have any money, so I stayed with him for a while, and he was in a terrible neighborhood, and he had bought a house there a long time ago, and the community had changed several times and gotten worse and worse, and the kid next door, before I had moved in, somewhere around the time that I was living there, his door got broken down by the cops, and he was selling crack, and it was, it was real bad, you know, so I felt depressed living there, and the environment that I found myself in, my grandmother had had a stroke, so she would, like, moan and, you know, this is the grandmother who's a mafia runner, numbers yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she, that was earlier in her life when she was mobile, but she had, she had had a stroke, and she, she gave her, like, 72 hours to live.

[1508] She lived for 12 years.

[1509] Wow.

[1510] Yeah, just like they were like, she's probably going to die.

[1511] Like, she had a really bad struck, but somehow she hung on by a thread for a long time.

[1512] And, you know, my grandfather used to have to change her sheets and she had bed sores because she would just lay in one place.

[1513] She couldn't really move.

[1514] It was awful.

[1515] It was awful.

[1516] So that environment of being in this really poor neighborhood, being poor myself, I had no fucking money.

[1517] Being around bad, like, didn't have good friends.

[1518] It's depressing.

[1519] It's depressing.

[1520] Now, obviously, I had an opportunity.

[1521] I had a career.

[1522] There's a way to get out of that.

[1523] But I got a taste, I think, even though the tiniest, tiniest, tiniest taste of despair, of what it's like to be stuck in a shit situation.

[1524] Now, imagine being born in that situation because I, you know, I moved there when I was in my 20s.

[1525] I was like 23 or something like that.

[1526] Imagine if I was there my whole life and I'd just been around fucked up people or I'd been sexually abused or physically abused or, you know, my mother was selling crack or, you know, my brother was in jail or who knows?

[1527] See, there's a lot of variables that can lead to a terrible state of mind.

[1528] And it's insanely hard to overcome the patterns of the past and the patterns of your environment.

[1529] And until we address that, this idea of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is fucking ridiculous.

[1530] The idea of, well, the cops wouldn't be shooting these young black kids if they just didn't commit crimes.

[1531] That's crazy.

[1532] That's crazy because it's not even.

[1533] It's not an even playing field.

[1534] It's not even for me comparing myself of 23 to myself of 40.

[1535] I have way more opportunity now.

[1536] It's way easier life.

[1537] It's way easier.

[1538] I'm way better friends.

[1539] I've established a nice community with my friends.

[1540] Do you still form a lot of new friendships or do you have your, yeah?

[1541] Yeah, I have new friendships.

[1542] Yeah, I definitely, you.

[1543] Well, thank you.

[1544] I'm honored to be amongst that group.

[1545] Well, because of doing this podcast, it's allowed me to communicate with some really fascinating people.

[1546] And that's definitely allowed me to formulate some new friendships.

[1547] And it's allowed me to evolve my perspective, to examine my own ideas, and to, you know, I think all of us that I'm friends with, we've sort of all experienced that sort of same similar growth pattern.

[1548] Because, you know, as you take in more information, you communicate with each other about things, you kind of evolve ideas.

[1549] So there was a study done, I think, a longitudinal study.

[1550] And I believe I mentioned it in the book at Harvard.

[1551] I think the lead investigator, I think his name is George, in French you would say, I guess, Vagant or Veyant, or I think that's his name.

[1552] And out of 75 years of research in terms of what is sort of the number one predictor that makes people happy or content, I can't remember the exact dependent measure, the number one thing was establishing meaningful connections with others.

[1553] So, I mean, 75 years of research out of a million possible causal factors were distilled to that one fact.

[1554] I would agree with that.

[1555] Yeah, exactly.

[1556] I would agree with that.

[1557] The most, the saddest people I know are lonely.

[1558] Exactly.

[1559] The saddest people I know, you know, I know, I know a few comedians who don't have comedian friends, too, which is really weird.

[1560] They're sort of ostracized by the community in some weird way.

[1561] And those people are really sad, really sad and really lonely and really weird.

[1562] Well, I mean, I don't know if we've ever mentioned this on this broadcast, but if you take prisoners, many of them will prefer to be in general.

[1563] population where they might be jumped and stabbed and raped than to be put in solitary confinement.

[1564] Precisely because solitary confinement is the ultimate of punishments to a social species, right?

[1565] Yeah, we need each other.

[1566] And these biological requirements that we don't consider because we meet them on a daily basis.

[1567] You know, that's one of them is getting outside.

[1568] And, you know, I feel it often because, of course, in my career, there are two parts of me. There is the, I cocoon in my study, I'm working on a book, and for the next, you know, 16 months, I'm pretty much focused on that, and I become sort of a cave dweller.

[1569] And, of course, there's the public side of me, which is very extroverted and social and so on.

[1570] Once in a while, when I've spent several days very much cocooned, and then I go out, even to meet a graduate student to discuss ideas or a friend, I literally come back refreshed in a way that is akin to, satiating a thirst or hunger or sexual need, right?

[1571] I mean, you genuinely feel that I went out with Joe and we had coffee and I really needed that.

[1572] Yeah, right?

[1573] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[1574] Yeah, I think, I feel like that all the time when I see my friends.

[1575] You know, I work with my good friend Joey Diaz last night at the comedy store.

[1576] And when I saw him, you know, I hadn't seen him a couple days or so.

[1577] I may see him all the time, but I hadn't seen him and he gave me a big hug and I'm hugging them.

[1578] I'm like, ah, it's so good to see this guy.

[1579] By the way, you know what is a hormonal marker of the hugging?

[1580] What?

[1581] Release of oxytocin.

[1582] Makes sense.

[1583] Yeah.

[1584] Makes sense.

[1585] You know, I mean, a friend that I genuinely love and he genuinely loves me. We see each other, big smiles, big hug.

[1586] Yeah.

[1587] It's warm and it's awesome.

[1588] You know, and when you don't have that in life, you suffer.

[1589] When I first moved to L .A., I had gone here to do some acting, and I was here for a couple weeks, and I didn't have any friends.

[1590] Again, same sort of situation and I had gone you know like like maybe like two weeks being here and really not really knowing anybody and this girl that I was working with on the set gave me a hug and I remember that hug felt so good and it didn't feel good like I wanted a fucker right it felt good like yeah like warmth like love like an actual person being kind to me you know or else like I was so weirded out by being in this strange place and and living in L .A. and like, oh, I'd just gotten accustomed to, I just established like a community in New York.

[1591] You know, I established some friends, and I was just starting to be happy in New York and all something out in L .A. Well, so in Darwinian psychiatry, which is a field of psychiatry that applies evolutionary principles, there's this idea of, so for example, we've evolved in bands of up to 150 people, right?

[1592] You might have heard of Robin Dunbar's number.

[1593] Yes.

[1594] Yeah.

[1595] So the idea is...

[1596] 150 people you can keep in like your social memory.

[1597] Exactly right.

[1598] Because computationally, you want to be able to mark who's trustworthy, who's not, this guy reciprocate, this guy doesn't.

[1599] Once you get past 150, it becomes very difficult to maintain all these in your head.

[1600] Yeah.

[1601] Well, so in the context of the environments in which we've evolved, small groups, repeat interactions, our need for social interaction is certainly met.

[1602] On the other hand, you could live in New York, you're surrounded by 8 million people, you think how could somebody be lonely when you step outside and you bump into 17 ,000 people.

[1603] Yet the rates of depression in this very lonely place but yet very filled place is much greater than the 150.

[1604] Precisely because there's a mismatch between the environment in which we've evolved and the contemporary environment.

[1605] And so that's in the field of evolutionary psychiatry, you study these types of things.

[1606] That's fascinating.

[1607] The mismatch is true.

[1608] And also there's an intimacy wall that people put up because there's too many folks.

[1609] right there's too many people and when there's too many people you can't make friends with everybody whereas if you're in a small town you wave to people as you're driving by them you don't wave to people in new york you'd be go you'd go fucking crazy you know imagine if you had to wave to every cab that passed you in new york if you're driving you just it's it's not possible so in your case as somebody who obviously is as well known and so on a lot of people are trying to befriend you does that result in you having a bit more of a precautionary approach with people because you always think that there might be some.

[1610] It doesn't have to be a sinister angle, but I just want to be, you know, friends with this famous person.

[1611] Does that ever come into play in your interactions?

[1612] Yeah, you're definitely going to have that.

[1613] But, you know, you just find other like -minded people.

[1614] You just find people that are like you or similar.

[1615] Yeah, you got to be picky, you know.

[1616] And also there's a lot of weight to it.

[1617] You know, if you, like for you, for example, perfect example.

[1618] Like you start doing this podcast, your podcast is taken off, your YouTube series is taken off, and then people want to become friends with you because they think that they can get on your show or that they can piggyback on your success, and they calculate and they look at you, and they say, if I could just get in with the Godfather, I will be, I'll be in.

[1619] And then I'll get a YouTube following, then I'll get a little Twitter following, then I can get a career.

[1620] Like, there's people that do calculate things like that.

[1621] And I've met people like that in the world of stand -up, where people have said, hey, you know, take me under your wing.

[1622] Like, are you fucking crazy?

[1623] There's no wing.

[1624] like go go get your own wing yeah I don't have any time I barely have time to do what I'm doing right now and continue my own stuff like you you see funny like but there's certain comics so I'll see them and I know they're really good and they're working really hard and then I'll take them on the road with me like Tony Hinchcliffe is a perfect example I think he was opening for you in Montreal when you yes he was very funny he was hilarious I take him with me everywhere and then there's other ones like that you know where I meet them and they're working hard and they're hustling and and then I can help them you know but but some people don't they don't want to work hard they just want to sort of like cling on to you like a lamprey and then they think somehow now that it'll take them to and you gotta know who those people are and some people don't and I have friends that don't they don't know so I'll be hanging around with them like who the fuck is this guy and like oh he's a good guy he's a good guy I'm like they're what are you doing man what are you doing like they'll bring these guys in the road with them and they're terrible comedians, but what they do is they know how to stroke their ego and kiss their ass, and they've, you know, become a part of their system.

[1625] And they, a lot of my friends who have had this, they have had real problems of these people where there's a deep resentment that gets established when that person's career doesn't take off.

[1626] Right.

[1627] You know, it doesn't happen because they really don't have that much talent.

[1628] They're just really good at kissing ass and they get upset.

[1629] This person's not helping them.

[1630] Like, what the fuck have you done?

[1631] You've let this knucklehead into your life because they figured out a way how to woo you.

[1632] in the beginning.

[1633] So you have to be careful, but you also have to be careful with yourself.

[1634] You have to be careful with your own behavior.

[1635] You have to, you have to objectively monitor your own thinking, and you have to spend time, like, alone, just thinking.

[1636] And that's something that people don't like to do.

[1637] And that's something I think is absolutely critical.

[1638] It's one of the most critical things for a grown person to do is to spend some time and just think.

[1639] Alone, just thinking and monitor your thoughts and monitor your life and then go forth from that with some directives, with some ideas, with some guidelines, what you want to do and what you want to accomplish.

[1640] Because if you don't do that, you sort of live life untethered, untethered to your dreams or your ideas or, I mean, even dreams as far as, like, community and family.

[1641] Like, those aren't, like, lofty aspirations in a sense of, like, unachievable things, like climbing Everest in your underwear.

[1642] We're talking about things that can be done, but oftentimes aren't, because you don't pursue them with that directive, like my directive to establish a happy family, to be a good friend, to be a good neighbor, to all these things.

[1643] People don't, oftentimes don't consider how much of a factor those things play in your overall happiness and the happiness of the people around you, you know, and you can do that, but you have to think about it.

[1644] Earlier, of course, your viewers don't know, I introduced you to one of my friends who was an FBI special agent.

[1645] And we were chatting.

[1646] I've been here for a few days, so we had gone out together.

[1647] And I was telling him that oftentimes I get an itch for like a man's man companionship.

[1648] You know what I mean?

[1649] Yes.

[1650] Because, I mean, not to stereotype, but sometimes the intellectual types with whom I can go out, who are part of my world, who are my colleagues, will satisfy.

[1651] fire particular itch but of course I used to be a soccer player and I'm I'm a guy's guy and I you right I mean we need to be able to talk about certain things that are not necessarily within the confines you need fellow sexist say it not fellow sexes but but but fellow guys who can sort of let let hair let the hair down right but you're allowed to be yourself yeah and and I mean not that I'm not myself in other but but there are different sort of rules of conducts in different settings right the way you act yeah and And I find that recently, maybe because, of course, I think we both have young children where you somewhat cocoon, I've lost a bit of the male bonding and camaraderie that comes with playing in a soccer team.

[1652] And many professional athletes, as you know, when they retire, they will always say, you know, they don't miss playing in front of 100 ,000 people or the adulation, but they miss the camaraderie, the brotherhood with their friends.

[1653] And that element of male -male -male bonding is something that sometimes I miss because of how busy my life is.

[1654] Yes, I completely agree.

[1655] And I've found that the most potent form of that is hunting camps.

[1656] Okay.

[1657] That hunting camps, when you go hunting and you're camping out and you have a camp fire.

[1658] Well, you're focused on one thing.

[1659] And you're surrounded by these men and everyone is allowed to be themselves.

[1660] And you're also, you're engaging in this intensely, quote -unquote, man. Manly activity that is almost the polar opposite of raising children and coddling little girls It becomes this manly rugged pursuit and it's very satisfying in a deep genetic level Because I think there's these reward systems that are established thousands of years ago in our DNA It's like why you like being around a campfire like why is that because it's super beneficial to have a fire Wards off predators keeps you warm it cooks your food keeps off the mosquitoes keeps off the mosquitoes There's so many benefits to having this fire that when you have one, it's like naturally satisfying.

[1661] We all huddle around it.

[1662] And, you know, it's odd to leave it, you know.

[1663] I think that being around other men is, it's oftentimes thought that these men are going to get together and they're going to think men things are going to come back and be sexist and patriarchal and they're going to come back and ruin all this progress that we've had.

[1664] And there is that idea that somehow or another that manly is anti -progressive.

[1665] aggressive and anti, you know, anti -equal rights, anti -equal values.

[1666] It's funny, by the way, that when you ask a lot of women what types of men they want, they will typically point to the male archetype that is most viewed with disdain by the current wave of, you know, third -wave feminism, right?

[1667] If you talk to those women when they're being honest and alone, yeah, if they don't get called out by it.

[1668] I mean, so I was once communicating with, I think she was either Swedish or Danish, where she was saying that, especially, I think she was Swedish where, you know, in Sweden, they've had this sort of longstanding experiment where they try to remove gender pronouns.

[1669] Yeah, right.

[1670] Why don't you explain that because it's very bizarre?

[1671] Explain that to people.

[1672] Well, the idea is that they're trying to, as much as they can, remove any gender markers in any setting.

[1673] And so the idea is that we should be gender neutral in every possible way.

[1674] Incidentally, there was a study on toy preferences done in Sweden, right?

[1675] The mecca of gender neutrality.

[1676] And guess what?

[1677] Little boys and little girls gravitate to exactly the same sex -specific toys as everywhere else on Earth.

[1678] So despite 40 years of social engineering, it hasn't done anything.

[1679] But anyways, and so the men there have been so ravaged by third -wave feminism.

[1680] I mean, literally, they're, they're, they have no testicles.

[1681] Well, metaphorically, not literally.

[1682] And so we were chatting on it, whatever, and she, and she was saying that she misses the pursuit.

[1683] I mean, a man courting her.

[1684] I mean, not sexually harassing her, but there is a dance that happens.

[1685] Well, it's sexually harassing when you're not attracted to that man. Exactly.

[1686] That's when it gets confusing.

[1687] Right, right.

[1688] Because if the right man, you know, if it's Johnny Depp or something, is pursuing you, it's hot.

[1689] If some fat slob with dirty breath is pursuing you, then it's harassment.

[1690] Exactly.

[1691] Yeah, I mean, that's oftentimes it can.

[1692] And so men have become so tentative apparently in Sweden that oftentimes these women, the reason why they like guys, you know, sort of the stereotypical Italian guy when they go, is not only, of course, Italian guys on average, America, very stylish and good looking, but it's because that political correctness that has stifled natural dynamics between men and women hasn't fully, you know, permeated, say, Italian culture so that when women pass by, yes, you don't want them to be cat -calling them, but guys will approach you, guys will hit on you, guys will tell you you're beautiful.

[1693] And in the deep recesses of even the most ardent feminist, you like that.

[1694] I mean, it's part of the natural dynamics of men and women, right?

[1695] but it's so confusing now for anyone because you don't know I mean if I tell you you look good today at work is that sexual harassment or not should I only tell my male colleague that he really looks good in this tie but I shouldn't right well the problem is if you are unattracted to this man and he tells you you look good and you say why thank you and he's like I'd love to stick my dick in your mouth like okay you fucked it up you know it's it's how far do people take it if it's a gender or a sexual neutral thing like, hey, Deborah, you look wonderful today.

[1696] I love your dress.

[1697] Look fantastic.

[1698] Well, thank you, Mike.

[1699] And then, you know, he goes to work and you go to work and everybody's happy and you are friends.

[1700] There's a neutrality, a sexuality, a sexual neutrality there.

[1701] But that's the plutonic values that people would like to see in the workplace rarely exist.

[1702] There's always like coveted sexual desires that people, they're unrequited love and affairs that take place because people are working together in these environments for eight hours a day staring at each other.

[1703] It's normal thoughts and ideas.

[1704] It's an abnormal environment for men and women to be in these workplaces and not have those thoughts.

[1705] That's abnormal.

[1706] The thoughts, I mean, and managing those thoughts becomes incredibly tricky, which is why you need to establish very strict behavior, you know, laws and rules and regulations in the workforce because you don't want women to deal with bullshit.

[1707] Or men.

[1708] You know, I've had men that were in here.

[1709] I had a, that guy, the amazing atheist who's talking about this woman that he had that was like, she was his boss and he was getting sexually harassed like on a daily basis.

[1710] And it was torturous.

[1711] It was brutal.

[1712] She would grab his ass, he would try to get him to fuck her and he didn't want to.

[1713] He wasn't attracted to her.

[1714] But she was his boss.

[1715] This is an amazing atheist was the recipient of that person.

[1716] Yes, yes.

[1717] He's a YouTube guy.

[1718] I know him.

[1719] I was on a show.

[1720] The drunken peasants.

[1721] Yeah.

[1722] Yeah.

[1723] Good dude.

[1724] Yeah.

[1725] And so, you know, he was talking about it from his person.

[1726] perspective where people don't look at it like that he was in any sort of a bad situation at all they laugh it off because he's a man right you know he's like what the fuck so he's like psychologically devastated he's got to go to work all the time this lady's gonna grab his ass and she's gross and she's above him right and so he's experiencing what a lot of women experience right only no one cares because he's a man you know it's like oh speaking of not sexual harassment but continuing on that train of thought I had a public exchange with a woman who is trying to pass a bill, I think in New Jersey, maybe New York, I can't remember.

[1727] It's called the rape by fraud.

[1728] Oh, yeah, I've seen that, yeah.

[1729] Have you seen it through me or?

[1730] No, I've seen that law that they're trying to pass.

[1731] It's hilarious.

[1732] Explain the law because it's just.

[1733] So the basic idea is that she's arguing that when you, in the same way that you enter a contract with somebody and if you do so under false pretense, then you are in.

[1734] engaging in a fraudulent action, well, when you get somebody to go to bed with you under false pretense, you lie about your background, your education, you lie about whatever, and you get that person to acquiesce to your advances and you have sex with them, well, then that is an instantiation of rape by fraud, right?

[1735] You were able to have sex with me under false pretences.

[1736] And so I saw this thing.

[1737] I thought it was breathtaking how, how idiotic it was.

[1738] I said, well, okay, let me put together a sad truth YouTube clip.

[1739] And in the clip, I didn't mention her.

[1740] I didn't attack the woman who's trying to move this idea.

[1741] But of course, I linked back to her site because I want to be judicious and link, I mean, show that it's a real thing.

[1742] So it's a real thing.

[1743] Show the reference.

[1744] Yeah.

[1745] As a scientist.

[1746] So she starts hammering at me she puts up this website I'm sure you could probably find it maybe I shouldn't have given this platform for her maybe you shouldn't put it because she'll just get more attention but anyways she's saying that I am a rape by fraud enabler so and then she goes on to say that you better stop critiquing my ideas because you're going to have a lawsuit for my lawyer for being libelous and defamatory to me. So the mindset of this person...

[1747] Is she saying in those words?

[1748] In roughly those words, yeah.

[1749] Wow.

[1750] Critiquing an idea.

[1751] So maybe I'm paraphrasing, but I mean, the fact that I'm coming after her, right?

[1752] So this woman thought that her putting up an idea in the marketplace of ideas and having somebody scrutinize that idea.

[1753] As harassment.

[1754] It's harassment was a form of defamation of it being libelous.

[1755] And I thought that was just breathtaking.

[1756] And I had two other cases with two Forbes, both happened to be Forbes journalists, female journalists, where we went back and forth.

[1757] It very, very quickly disintegrated on Twitter.

[1758] They started doing this, your cyber bullying me when I had done no such thing.

[1759] I was very, very tepid and so on.

[1760] And I used against both of them, some people might have already heard the story, I used against both of them the fact that I score higher on oppression Olympics or victimology poker.

[1761] brown man from the Middle East, Jew, Arab, overweight.

[1762] And so then I started from Lebanon, from Lebanon, you tell your story.

[1763] Exactly.

[1764] The story that you told in this podcast.

[1765] That's about as a press as it gets.

[1766] Exactly.

[1767] And so I turned it against them.

[1768] Guess what?

[1769] They disappeared.

[1770] So imagine how grotesque their mindset is.

[1771] As long as they thought they could say, you know, you're a pig, you're cyber bullying me. Maybe we'll talk about the Nita Sarkeesian Twitter things.

[1772] Yeah.

[1773] They felt safe.

[1774] The second, I started, I actually was satirizing saying, why are you attacking a brown man?

[1775] man, why are you attacking me just because I'm overweight?

[1776] I have feelings.

[1777] They disappeared faster than you could say, Godfather.

[1778] Because they knew that they would be accused of anti - and I literally used those things.

[1779] Like, you know, you're an anti -Semite.

[1780] You're an Arabophobe.

[1781] And it works.

[1782] It's magical.

[1783] It's so stupid.

[1784] It's so stupid.

[1785] Why don't you just engage me in ideas?

[1786] It's about identity politics.

[1787] Well, I think there's some value and some merit in the idea that you shouldn't be able to lie to people and fuck them.

[1788] Right.

[1789] I think, like, if you say you're a prince from another country and you want to take this person to your land and they will live forever in a Garden of Eden and this woman thinks, oh, my God, I met the perfect guy.

[1790] But it's not raped by fraud.

[1791] Okay, but what is it?

[1792] No, I actually, in my clip, I made it clear that I find that morally and ethically reprehensible, I believe that people should be maximally honest in their daily affairs.

[1793] Okay, I do too.

[1794] Exactly.

[1795] But don't call it rape by fraud.

[1796] Okay, it's not rape.

[1797] But what is it?

[1798] Duplicity.

[1799] It's caveat mTOR.

[1800] It's right.

[1801] Buyer beware.

[1802] But there's something that we value very intensely about intimacy.

[1803] And someone who achieves intimacy through false pretenses, it's different than someone that, like, you know, says they're going to pay for lunch.

[1804] 95 % of them.

[1805] going to give you a million dollars and they don't okay but 90 you know what I'm saying yeah I do 95 % of online dating would be then rape yeah that's what I'm saying it should be should be all rape right I mean men lie about their education about their income about their height women lie about their age about their weight they wear a push -up bras part of the mating ritual as as the testable as it might be is that people engage in deceptive signaling yeah animals evolve deceptive signals right So let's call everybody a rape.

[1806] I mean, everybody is a rapist.

[1807] Well, under that, well, you're getting real extreme because we're talking about, like, what kind of lies are we talking about where it would be raped by fraud?

[1808] Like, is it established?

[1809] Do they have, like, certain parameters that would achieve that distinction?

[1810] I don't know the boundaries.

[1811] I think in her case, I know that, so she has experienced, I think, a very bad deception where the guy whom she, I don't know if she married him or not, you know had said that he was a bc but it turned out to not be true and he had maybe okay it's it's dreadful it's horrible but that's that's called life yeah you learn from that i mean that happened to cindy crawford um christie brinkley she married some guy she was in a helicopter crash with and it turned out to be kind of a con man okay and as time went on she realized it and you know cost her a lot of money okay a woman who fakes an orgasm with you is raping you because the next time the next time that you have sex with her under the false pretense that you receive positive feedback that you're a great lover because you gave her an orgasm but she was faking her orgasm she's raping me so that's that's ridiculous but that's so far off the beaten path because the woman is saying like you gave her pleasure like it's there's no loss to you like that it doesn't hurt you in any way like if that woman said like you made me come so because you made me come i'm gonna give you a million dollars and then you can quit your job so you quit your job like i'm the best pussy eater ever i'm gonna get paid for this and you quit your job because of that and then it turns out that she doesn't really have a million dollars and you'd even make her have an orgasm well then you fucked up no the only reason i wanted to have sex with her again is because of the feedback i received for the great uh that's the only reason lover prowess you don't want your own pleasures of secondary nature come on i'm a very giving guy i'm completely altruistic such a stress you should abandon it immediately is a terrible argument but i think there is there's a certain amount of validity to what this woman's saying like as far as like someone who is like very deceptive who uses that deception to have sex with you and you find out they're a liar that feels terrible yes so like but what should it be like what if you i mean what what what would what could it be i mean if a guy says he's uh one eighth indian you know my my mom's apache on my grandfather's son, but it's all bullshit.

[1812] Right.

[1813] I mean, you're attracted to that in some sort of strange way because you really like dream catchers.

[1814] Right.

[1815] You know, I've always wanted to be with a Native American.

[1816] And then you find out the guy's really like German, Irish and, you know, is a liar.

[1817] Like, is that?

[1818] Is that right?

[1819] Of course not.

[1820] Right.

[1821] Okay.

[1822] So what is that?

[1823] That's just a liar.

[1824] It's about life.

[1825] But when is it a problem?

[1826] It's a problem when someone does it and somehow or another it harms the person who's been deceived.

[1827] It becomes a crime.

[1828] Right.

[1829] I think if there is, I mean, I don't know.

[1830] I'd have to think about what the parameters are.

[1831] But I mean, if you, if you were engaging in a repeat interaction where you defrauded the person through a misrepresentation, but I mean, the idea that to get somebody to date you or have sex with you, and through the pursuit of that objective, you lie as reprehensible.

[1832] Let me be clear again, it's reprehensible.

[1833] And I certainly don't live my life that way, although I'm married now, but I never have lived my life that way.

[1834] You can't criminalize a central feature of human nature.

[1835] It is incumbent on each individual to do their homework.

[1836] I mean, you do your due diligence and find out if the guy that you're speaking to is a Nigerian prince.

[1837] Right, but doesn't this woman have like kind of fairly cut and dry parameters that she's establishing?

[1838] I don't know.

[1839] I frankly don't know either.

[1840] If she did, maybe that would give it more validity of something that she's been thinking about for a long time.

[1841] But I can never imagine that it would ever be able to meet the standards of it being called rape.

[1842] You know what's interesting about this conversation is that what we're talking about is a person who's been fucked over and that person has gone out of their way to make sure this never happens again because they've been hurt and they've been tortured.

[1843] I think you see a lot of that with like really radical feminism in general.

[1844] What you see is a lot of women who their interactions with men have not been positive.

[1845] and unfortunately the stereotype is that these are very unattractive women well if you're a very unattractive woman and you go through life just being rejected by men or being treated by shit like shit by men there's like a natural tendency to think that men are terrible because they've rejected like maybe you're attracted to a man and he he laughs at you and mocks you that's i've seen that on the male side too right and and with a close friend i had a friend that i watched him evolve into a woman he had aspirations and hopes find a good girl and he had this one girl he was dating and she fucked him over and then another girl fucked him over and just women weren't that attracted to him and you know it just got darker and darker as he got older and older to the point where he genuinely would say like just generalize terrible things about women right like women they're all fucking horrors man they all just want your money they're all fucking pigs fuck them who gives you shit i hope they all get raped like you would say crazy shit like that and you'd be like whoa Oh, like, where did this come from?

[1846] What came from a lifetime of rejection and associating women with a negative feeling.

[1847] Right.

[1848] I'm attracted to them, I come up to them, they shit on me. I'm attracted to them, I come up to them, this shit on me. Over and over and over again to the point where he broke.

[1849] You know, he just, it was easier for him to form these generalizations and to act on these or to have these in his mindset.

[1850] And I think that this is the unfortunate reality about sexual attraction as it pertains to the dynamics of men and women interaction.

[1851] with each other.

[1852] There's a lot going on there.

[1853] When you look at unattractive feminists versus over and over again, you see one after the other after the other.

[1854] By the way, there's a study that was done, I think published in Frontiers in Human Neuroscience where they measured the digit ratio and administered a scale of gender, you know, how much you score on masculinity, femininity, if I remember correctly, or dominance or something, at a feminist conference.

[1855] Ooh.

[1856] And the women were more masculinized.

[1857] at that conference.

[1858] So there is empirical evidence for sort of your anecdotal intuition.

[1859] It makes sense.

[1860] And also women that are forced to work.

[1861] You know, they've found that women in the workplace generally develop more testosterone.

[1862] Is that right?

[1863] Yes, yes.

[1864] Women that are forced to fend for themselves generally develop more testosterone.

[1865] It literally alters the way their hormones express themselves.

[1866] So it's not that depending on the fields that they go into, they start off with more or less testosterone?

[1867] So you're saying that it's a response They're saying that they believe It is a response to women being independent And being forced to provide for themselves That they develop more testosterone I don't know how the fuck they prove that I don't know how they...

[1868] I'd like to see that's the thing The problem is you would have to have the exact same person With the exact same genetics take to completely different paths So you'd have to do it with identical twins With very similar input Right?

[1869] Because like your genes A lot of what's going on The way they express themselves is dependent upon your environment, your experiences There's a lot going on.

[1870] That's not as simple.

[1871] I think my last sad truth clip was on exactly that, where I was arguing that the whole idea of biological determinism as applied to evolution psychology is complete nonsense.

[1872] And one of the examples that I give is exactly the words that you use, which is that genes are turned on or off as a function of environmental inputs.

[1873] Yes.

[1874] So the idea when people levy, you say, oh, you're an evolution psychologist.

[1875] Also, you believe everything is biologically determined.

[1876] somebody who says that is effectively saying, I understand nothing about biology.

[1877] Right.

[1878] Yeah.

[1879] It's very complex and only being recently understood within the last couple decades.

[1880] Right.

[1881] So we're talking about a fairly new science that is, or a fairly new data, I should say, that a lot of people just haven't accepted yet.

[1882] And it's very convenient to generalize instead and to not take into account all these incredibly complex variables that determine whether a human being is this way or that way, whether they're more masculine or more, it's like, what have you had to do?

[1883] How have you had to offend for yourself?

[1884] How have you had to get through life?

[1885] What have you had to do as far as like, who have you had to nurture and take care of?

[1886] You know, what, there's a lot of variables that lead to a person being a person.

[1887] And there's a lot of different styles of people.

[1888] And some men like really strong, dominant mother figure wives.

[1889] They love it.

[1890] That's what they want.

[1891] They want some woman to take care of everything and tell them what to do.

[1892] I have friends like that.

[1893] They want that woman to yell at them and tell them what to do.

[1894] It alleviates a lot of questions and choices.

[1895] And that's what they look forward to.

[1896] And then I have other friends that want the wife to be like some 1950s housewife from a movie.

[1897] Right.

[1898] It's just, you know, you come home, dinner's on the table.

[1899] She gives you a kiss.

[1900] And, you know, it's like real, like, traditional values.

[1901] But there's feminists that will look at that woman, and like she's an enemy, like that her life, although it makes her happy to exist in this way, they have a really cooperative relationship.

[1902] She doesn't have a right to that choice.

[1903] Exactly.

[1904] And a man doesn't have a right to be masculine.

[1905] Yeah.

[1906] Men don't have a right to go on these hunting camps.

[1907] First of all, you should only eat vegetables.

[1908] You should be a vegan.

[1909] And then in doing so, you definitely shouldn't be a hunter, and you definitely shouldn't be involved in masculine sports or activities.

[1910] You definitely shouldn't enjoy weightlifting or anything that's going to be.

[1911] to make you more men because it make you toxic.

[1912] You're a toxic male.

[1913] Toxic masculinity.

[1914] That's hilarious.

[1915] Do we want to talk about Anita Sarcageas quickly?

[1916] Well, you know, I'm not that familiar with her other than I've seen a couple of her videos about video games and I'm like, and they've also seen Thunderfoot stuff on her, which is really interesting, which explains that she had this background in marketing and mass marketing and, you know, is obviously whether or not she's entirely invested in these ideas, she's obviously aware that she's marketing her ideas towards a very specific group.

[1917] And she's got these beta males that cling to her and are attached to her, which are hilarious human beings.

[1918] Have you heard my theory about the, it's actually a real term, sneaker fucker strategy?

[1919] Excuse me?

[1920] Sneaker fucker?

[1921] Sneaker fucker?

[1922] Yeah.

[1923] No. I can't wait.

[1924] There you go.

[1925] That's, I think it's a, I'm not sure if it was a term that was introduced by Richard Dawkins.

[1926] I can't remember who it was.

[1927] He called it sneaker if Dawkins.

[1928] I hope I'm not miss speaking.

[1929] Maybe Jamie can pull it up.

[1930] But anyways, it basically refers to some species where males come in different phenotypes.

[1931] In other words, different physical manifestations.

[1932] So they might be, say, for example, a type of fish species where the typical male is a, whatever, a big phenotype, whatever that is.

[1933] Then there are other males that mimic the phenotype of females.

[1934] so when the male standing around looking to protect his area that that male who looks like a female will sneak in and then get some quick copulations with some of the females that otherwise should be inaccessible to him and that became known as a sneaker fucker strategy in zoology and I argue I haven't tested it but I think it would it would it would be interesting to do so that some of these sort of social justice warriors your beta males are engaging in a form of sneaker -fucker strategies.

[1935] What do you think?

[1936] 100%.

[1937] Oh, I look at that.

[1938] 100%.

[1939] Without a doubt.

[1940] I mean, you have to do what you've got to do.

[1941] There's a desperation involved.

[1942] Like, if you can't be, you know, this beautiful stud male that all these women fall after.

[1943] Joe Rogan.

[1944] Not me. I'm too short.

[1945] But if you're too short, I'm non -existent, man. Give me a chance.

[1946] You're shorter than me, dude.

[1947] You're fucked.

[1948] I know, I'm finished.

[1949] It's done.

[1950] But you know what?

[1951] There is research that shows.

[1952] Listen to the study.

[1953] Uh -oh.

[1954] You're getting defensive.

[1955] No, not at all.

[1956] You ready?

[1957] You ready?

[1958] What?

[1959] So you bring in a guy to a room, and the only thing that you manipulate is the ascribe status, academic status that you give to the guy.

[1960] Okay.

[1961] He comes into a room, and in one version of the experiment, he's a assistant professor.

[1962] And the second version, he's an associate professor, the third version.

[1963] He's a world famous professor.

[1964] Then when he steps out, the only thing that you test is people's perception of his height, his height magically becomes taller as his ascribed academic status goes up and so I always joke that I may be only 5 % but I'm 7 foot 4 baby how tall are you that's hurtful no it's not I feel I need to go to the same street I feel very uncomfortable I mean on a really good day where the hair is spiked 5, 6 and a bit actually somebody A really good day where the hair is, like I can measure that, man. I was in a photo yesterday with Dave Rubin and I did a show and so on.

[1965] And somebody wrote, he goes, oh, I learned something new.

[1966] I thought the Godfather was much taller.

[1967] You got to wear some stilts.

[1968] I got to wear some.

[1969] I got to wear the Rubio heels, maybe.

[1970] What's a Rubio heel?

[1971] Rubio, the presidential candidate, wasn't there a rumor that he was patting his heels to make himself taller?

[1972] Is that real?

[1973] That's what I'd heard.

[1974] I don't know.

[1975] I wouldn't be shocked when you.

[1976] You think about political circles and what kind of manipulations they have.

[1977] Yeah, there's so much manipulation going on there with image and so many different consultants.

[1978] I mean, they have that on television shows.

[1979] I can only imagine what it would be like.

[1980] Well, when George Bush was debating, I don't know if it was Carrie.

[1981] I can't remember which one.

[1982] His camp had come up with all sorts of rules of what kind of camera shots you can do and so on so that he does.

[1983] Whoa, look at his heels.

[1984] Isn't it beautiful how everything I say is very?

[1985] validated by Jamie.

[1986] Jesus Christ.

[1987] This guy's got unbelievable.

[1988] Fucking four -inch heels on.

[1989] I love Jamie.

[1990] I should have him around everywhere.

[1991] Like when I'm in class, I say something, and he just pops the stuff up.

[1992] First of all, those would be seriously uncomfortable.

[1993] Well, okay.

[1994] Well, hold on, though.

[1995] How much tall are those things in, like, cowboy boots?

[1996] Because cowboy boots are like that.

[1997] That's at least three inches.

[1998] Those are bigger than three inches.

[1999] Those are giant.

[2000] Well, maybe you're right.

[2001] Those are giant.

[2002] So he's a short guy.

[2003] How tall is Rubio supposed to be?

[2004] I don't know.

[2005] Oh, yeah, he has giant heels.

[2006] Because look at those Italian shoes.

[2007] That's not normal for the.

[2008] those ones on the left.

[2009] Exactly.

[2010] That's not normal.

[2011] That's by design.

[2012] Yeah.

[2013] Right.

[2014] There you go.

[2015] You got to just suck it up, man. Deal with the height.

[2016] You know, it's not like to...

[2017] Messy's 5 '6.

[2018] He could get any woman he wants in the world.

[2019] Who's that guy?

[2020] Oh, for the love of God.

[2021] What are you talking about?

[2022] Lionel Messi.

[2023] You don't know who that is?

[2024] No. Who's that?

[2025] Why are you looking at me funny?

[2026] Last time...

[2027] Who's Demetrius Mighty Mouse Johnson?

[2028] I don't know.

[2029] Just then shut your mouth.

[2030] Greatest pound -for -pound fighter that's ever lived.

[2031] How dare you?

[2032] Lionel Messi is the greatest soccer player who ever lived.

[2033] Oh, it's soccer.

[2034] Okay, right, the girly sport, yeah.

[2035] No, it's not girly.

[2036] It's just not something I'm interested in.

[2037] Yeah, yeah, you know this guy?

[2038] So he's 5 '6.

[2039] He's, oh, you know what?

[2040] I saw that guy on television.

[2041] They were doing some special on his movement and what he can do to balls, not like my balls, but like soccer balls and how he can manipulate them.

[2042] And it was fucking spectacular.

[2043] He's an incredible, incredible athlete.

[2044] But I didn't know what his name was.

[2045] Leonel Messi, now you know.

[2046] Okay.

[2047] There you go.

[2048] All right.

[2049] Okay.

[2050] You should show his wife at some point.

[2051] I'm sure she's hot as fuck.

[2052] It's okay.

[2053] You don't have to show it.

[2054] I get it.

[2055] But, yeah, but this guy running for president has nothing to do.

[2056] Jesus Christ, the guy's boring.

[2057] Nobody gives a fuck.

[2058] He's not a leader.

[2059] It's like Jeb Bush.

[2060] Jeb Bush, not a leader.

[2061] And that's why you had to back out of it.

[2062] You know, Ted Cruz, not a leader.

[2063] You know, they're hanging their head on this guy that most people see right through because there's a thing that happens when you talk to that guy where his intellect, like Ted Cruz, like maybe he's intelligent, maybe he's, I don't know, you know, supposedly he went to Harvard, supposedly he's very wise.

[2064] The way he talks, the way he establishes himself, the way he communicates is not enough.

[2065] It's not enough to run the world.

[2066] We all recognize it.

[2067] He's not powerful enough in his ideas.

[2068] Bernie Sanders might be a crazy old.

[2069] socialist.

[2070] He might be.

[2071] But when that guy speaks with passion, like, I buy it.

[2072] I buy it.

[2073] He doesn't exude a wimpiness?

[2074] No, doesn't exude a wimpiness.

[2075] He's got terrible posture.

[2076] He's got terrible posture.

[2077] He looks like very unhealthy, but he's willing to stand up for his beliefs, and he speaks with clarity, and he speaks with a certain amount of force.

[2078] And I don't think, I don't think he's the king, you know, but I think we live in a time where only assholes want to be president.

[2079] Right.

[2080] You know, look, this president thing is not going to last.

[2081] It's not.

[2082] It's not going to last.

[2083] No, I think it's like, fucking, it's like Morse code.

[2084] It's like, we need something better.

[2085] Like, this is stupid.

[2086] It's like we have Morse code and we also have cell phones.

[2087] Well, you're not going to use fucking Morse code.

[2088] It's goofy.

[2089] And this internet thing that we have created, this way of establishing information or expressing information, it is so far superior to anything that existed back when they invented the electoral college or representative government that, that voting and and having a leader one single higher primate leader one single single top ape that runs all the other apes it's dumb it's dumb you can't one person being president is a fucking really stupid idea it just doesn't make any sense but who makes the decisions that should be a lot of people right should be a gigantic council of really intelligent people yes 100 % I think it is already it is already it's a figurehead more than it is anything if that doesn't explain why Obama shifted almost all of his policies that he said that he was going to do once he got into office.

[2090] Once he actually got into office, changed so many of the things he did, including his idea and stance on whistleblowers.

[2091] There was a big part of his Hope and Change website that they had to redact.

[2092] So who believes that the president really is responsible for the entire country, really is the one guy that runs the entire show?

[2093] I think almost no one now.

[2094] Almost no one.

[2095] So it's a ridiculous figurehead position that I think we need to stop.

[2096] We need to stop pretending that we we have a king.

[2097] We need to stop.

[2098] We need to figure out a way to have an effective form of government with a giant group of really intelligent people that vote on it, people that have proven to be intelligent and objective and well -educated and have a reasoned response to all these different various scenarios.

[2099] Well, I guess the parliamentary system of Canada or Britain would probably be more akin to what you're talking about.

[2100] Maybe, but you still have Trudeau.

[2101] I mean, you still have a figurehead.

[2102] You still have a one.

[2103] Yeah, I mean, the, the Figurehead is a bad idea.

[2104] And I think it's a bad idea because I think that this hope and this idea that we need a king, we need a number one primate.

[2105] I mean, that's really what it is.

[2106] These are like chimpanzee hierarchy systems that have existed for thousands and millions of years.

[2107] But you don't think that humans succumb to the same dominance hierarchies?

[2108] I just don't think we need it anymore.

[2109] I think we're moving towards this idea of a global community, moving towards this idea of a world with the boundaries that we have had in the past oftentimes have been because we try to stay safe.

[2110] We try to establish borders.

[2111] We want to stay safe.

[2112] We want to keep people together.

[2113] I want to keep all the outsiders out.

[2114] We need a king.

[2115] We need a king to guard the borders.

[2116] A king to lead us into war.

[2117] I just think that's less and less relevant today.

[2118] And it's more and more relevant to have a large group of very informed people that can help a large group of people that are collectively calling themselves a country.

[2119] Plato talked about philosopher cakes, right?

[2120] He talked about that those who should lead should be the wise philosophers, and it should be sort of an amalgamation of those guys.

[2121] Maybe the godfather.

[2122] Maybe the godfather.

[2123] You were born in another country.

[2124] You're fucked.

[2125] But you changed the constitution for me, no?

[2126] Ah, we tried for Arnold.

[2127] We wanted Schwarzenegger until he got popped.

[2128] Right.

[2129] But what's the deal with him now doing those video game commercials?

[2130] I mean, does it not seem...

[2131] Skin, that scratch, son.

[2132] I'm going to get to a paper.

[2133] I'm going to pay for that divorce.

[2134] A lot of money.

[2135] I mean, he's doing movies.

[2136] He's doing a lot of different things.

[2137] He probably came to him with a big deal.

[2138] And, you know, it's a funny commercial.

[2139] And they're all attacking him, trying to get his iPhone.

[2140] Yeah.

[2141] That's the fuck.

[2142] It doesn't bother me. Does it bother you?

[2143] No, but I mean, it seems like.

[2144] For a former governor?

[2145] Yeah, I mean, maybe it's...

[2146] It's not governor anymore.

[2147] Yeah, okay.

[2148] Fair enough.

[2149] Yeah.

[2150] But I don't spend too much time thinking about it.

[2151] I mean, it would be weird if Bush started doing one of those.

[2152] Right.

[2153] You know?

[2154] You know?

[2155] Yeah.

[2156] Or the current guy.

[2157] You mean the...

[2158] No, the former president.

[2159] If George W. who started doing a commercial for a video game where he's running away from a bunch of assassins that are trying to steal his phone, it would get really weird.

[2160] Right.

[2161] You know, or if Obama left office and started doing commercials for shit, you know?

[2162] Is there a law against that?

[2163] About what?

[2164] A president doing commercials, like a former president, like representing Pepsi Cola or something like that.

[2165] I mean, I suspect not what would be the law and it would fall into what rubric?

[2166] I don't know.

[2167] No. I just, you've never seen it.

[2168] No, I think it would be a violation if you like, in quotes of the presidential office, I mean, right?

[2169] Well, I think one thing it would hinder them is the financial reward of being a president is really about those gigantic speeches that they give.

[2170] You know, Hillary Clinton, here's a fucking, a crazy one.

[2171] Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton have made hundreds of millions of dollars in speeches.

[2172] They gave their daughter a $3 million wedding party.

[2173] Yeah.

[2174] three million dollars but they're people of the masses they're just like you and me well this just should show you how insanely fucked up the political system is in this country and that's why a president it would actually be a negative to them if they had any mark on their record like doing a Pepsi commercial like whatever Pepsi would pay them it wouldn't be enough because like a guy like Bill Clinton he makes un fucking believable amounts of money and he was at least a partially disgraced president, but it doesn't matter.

[2175] It still didn't harm his financial, the financial possibilities.

[2176] Do you think it'll ever be the case where a sitting U .S. president can claim to be an atheist?

[2177] I think an agnostic is more likely.

[2178] An actual atheist.

[2179] An atheist is someone who says, I don't believe in God.

[2180] No God.

[2181] Yeah.

[2182] I think more likely someone that could say I don't know, you know, or someone who is, is there anybody that, like, chooses to engage in a bunch of different traditional practices of worship, but doesn't necessarily believe in a God?

[2183] As a politician.

[2184] Yeah, like someone who tries going to a Jewish synagogue and then one day and then you go to a Catholic church.

[2185] Well, I mean, they do all these things when it's campaigning season.

[2186] Right.

[2187] But do they wear the garb and do the service?

[2188] Oh, I could send you photos.

[2189] Please pull them up.

[2190] There's a bunch of photos of Justin Trudeau.

[2191] Being able to...

[2192] I'm done with that guy.

[2193] He's in every extremist mosque in Canada, prostrating himself as a sort of Muslim.

[2194] Did he do that to get into office?

[2195] What else would he have done it for?

[2196] But once he's in office, then how does he behave?

[2197] I'm not sure.

[2198] It's only been 100 days, so we'll have to...

[2199] I reserve judgment, but I'm not sure that I like that very much.

[2200] Yeah.

[2201] Well, it's a problem.

[2202] when you support any ideologies that really just don't make sense.

[2203] And that's, we're not talking about like meditation or anything else.

[2204] You're talking about like really strict guidelines for living and they don't make sense and they're, they're ancient and, you know, in a lot of ways, those places where those guidelines were established, was the cradle of civilizations where civilization first emanated and first took off and I have this sort of joke that I never I never really figured out how to do it on stage but that essentially the Middle East is like the townies of the world do you know what a townie is yeah yeah actually last time we're on I didn't know what that term was yeah yeah exactly we talked about it last time it's just like think that patterns are intensely hard to break and it's one of the reasons why the United States is the most as far as like artistically one of the most diverse places in the world and as far as our ability to express ourselves in film in music and to stand -up comedy and things along those lines.

[2205] And even in podcasting, it's the most diverse and the most potent.

[2206] And it's because we're the people that escaped.

[2207] Exactly.

[2208] All the other spots.

[2209] You know, my grandparents came from Italy and Ireland, and they all came over on a boat when they were young, and they established themselves in the East Coast.

[2210] And that's where my parents were born, and that's where I was born.

[2211] And these are just like second, third -generation immigrants that were trying to get the fuck away from the horrors of Europe.

[2212] And they tried to find a new place with new opportunity, and they escaped the tradition of the past.

[2213] And the tradition of this new place was different.

[2214] It was different.

[2215] It was more open.

[2216] It was more, there was more hope.

[2217] There wasn't a caste system.

[2218] Right.

[2219] You know, like there is in England.

[2220] I mean, there's like a very clear class system that goes on in a lot of countries throughout the world that has existed back from the days when they had kings.

[2221] By the way, in Canada, the Canadian government, I can't remember exactly when, specifically to avoid that caste system, the most.

[2222] the royal caste system, made it a law that Canadians can't be knighted.

[2223] Because any country that's under the Commonwealth, so you're Nigerian or you're Indian, you could be knighted by the queen.

[2224] You become sir, dame, so on.

[2225] Canadians can't.

[2226] Precisely because the argument was that the Canadian ethos is contrary to having these hierarchical royal titles.

[2227] So I could never be Sir Gatfather.

[2228] Good.

[2229] I like that.

[2230] You don't want to be a sir.

[2231] No, no, I know.

[2232] I think there's real problems in established caste systems like that, real problems that are intensely hard to break.

[2233] And I think that the beauty of America is that you can come here with nothing and become somebody.

[2234] And the real lesson in that is not that America is different.

[2235] It's that really everybody is somebody.

[2236] You're being held back by tradition.

[2237] And you're being held back by these parameters and these guidelines that are set in place by people that had a very limited amount of information.

[2238] work with.

[2239] They didn't understand the consequences of these rules.

[2240] They didn't understand the consequences of these patterns of behavior that you're forcing people to follow in.

[2241] Right.

[2242] And that's why America, you know, in a lot of ways, represents still like the beacon of freedom to people.

[2243] I mean, there's a lot of problems with America, a huge amount of problems with America.

[2244] But that alone, that it represents the most recent of the big countries, the most recents of the nation.

[2245] And I don't know if it's coincidentally, the big one.

[2246] It's the superpower.

[2247] I mean, I don't know if that's a coincidence.

[2248] But earlier, we were talking about friendships, so let me link that to some of the stuff that you're talking about America.

[2249] So one of the arguments as to why Americans seem to form more sort of ephemeral, transient friendships, you know, not as the, I mean, it might be a stereotype, but I can tell you that when I was a graduate student in the U .S., all the non -American students would complain that Americans are very quick to be friendly with you, but they don't form the same tight bonds.

[2250] That's interesting.

[2251] I've never heard that before.

[2252] But listen to the story.

[2253] So I thought about it and I thought, well, that can't be inherently that Americans are more shallow.

[2254] So what might be some reasons?

[2255] And so I actually talk about this, not in this book, but in an earlier book of mine, 2007 book, that the fact that Americans face greater geographic mobility, today I could be in Boston, tomorrow I could be in L .A. And socioeconomic mobility.

[2256] The stratum that I was born into is not necessarily the one that I might die in.

[2257] So because of these various forms of mobility, it creates a more transient definition of friendships.

[2258] Not that Americans can't form strong bonds, but there is a bit of a shallowness to the original encounters, because tomorrow I might be somewhere else.

[2259] Whereas the guy who comes from Lebanon, where where he's born is where he's going to die, where his word is his contract, is going to have a different definition of friendship, if only because life is not as anonymous.

[2260] It's not as open to mobility as it would be the case in, say, California.

[2261] That seems reasonable.

[2262] That makes sense.

[2263] You know, I think it's probably something in that.

[2264] I saw you trying to poke a hole into it, but you can find it.

[2265] Well, it just makes sense.

[2266] It makes sense.

[2267] I mean, we are in a lot of ways captive by the initial impulses of the people who created us and the land that they established.

[2268] You know, and this place is established by people that were so transient.

[2269] They got in a boat, and they sailed away before they had pictures, you know?

[2270] I mean, there wasn't even fucking pictures when people came here in the 1700s.

[2271] They had to draw things.

[2272] You know, look at this drawing.

[2273] This is what's waiting for you on the other side of the ocean.

[2274] It's only going to take three months.

[2275] Don't be a pussy.

[2276] Right.

[2277] And you're likely to die.

[2278] Yeah.

[2279] I mean, people don't want to get on a fucking plane for 10 hours and go to England.

[2280] Oh, that's too far.

[2281] But people, that's a fucking not even a day.

[2282] You could wake up in Los Angeles, get on a plane, you could have dinner in London.

[2283] That's incredible.

[2284] That's insane.

[2285] Is it Louis C .K.?

[2286] Is that how you pronounce it?

[2287] Is he the one who does the bit where he says about how he's flying in a tube in the sky?

[2288] Yeah, the Wi -Fi joke.

[2289] And yet he managed.

[2290] Yeah, yeah.

[2291] Well, it's all relative, right?

[2292] Right.

[2293] What's ridiculously easy to us in comparison to our grandparents is going to be a joke to our grandchildren.

[2294] who could beam each other on the moon anytime they want.

[2295] Let's just go to the base on Mars.

[2296] Are you kids going to go to Mars today?

[2297] They're just going to fucking beam each other up all over the galaxy.

[2298] I mean, that's what we're dealing with a very strange and ever -changing world.

[2299] Very nice.

[2300] This is a fucking badass podcast, brother.

[2301] Man, you are the best.

[2302] This is your thing, man. I live a truly blessed life to know guys like you.

[2303] I do too, know guys like you as what makes this podcast so cool to be able to have conversations with guys like you.

[2304] Thank you so much.

[2305] This is your future, man. what it is.

[2306] These fucking stuffy classrooms with 20 fucking kids who barely pay attention who are judging you.

[2307] Fuck those people.

[2308] Fuck them.

[2309] Fuck them all.

[2310] Don't listen to universities.

[2311] Don't listen to him.

[2312] Don't hire him.

[2313] You make so much more money doing this anyway.

[2314] Your YouTube page is...

[2315] So YouTube slash C slash got sad.

[2316] It's the sad truth.

[2317] The sad truth.

[2318] S -A -A -D.

[2319] Truth.

[2320] S -A -A -A -A -A -A -A.

[2321] but it's not sad it's not sad it's not happy i'm always smiling at god sad g -a -ad s -a -ad is my twitter feed and then my uh public facebook page whatever they start doctor period gad period sad always a pleasure my brother thank you sir open invitation anytime you want come on back we can do this every day thank you so much brother cheers good night everybody buddy.

[2322] I love them out here.