118 - Golden State Killer Caught!

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Is that it?

[17] Goodbye.

[18] Oh, my God, you guys.

[19] fuck they caught the fucking golden state killer east area motherfucking rapist that this is one of the fucking weirdest experiences of my life let's talk about last night i'm laying in bed i'm fucking i've been up since 5 a .m i'm like great i'm i already know i'm going to need a zanax to go to sleep just for the fucking shit of it because i drank a fucking cold brew that day then i look at my text and immediately and see what i've fucking been hoping to see every morning i wake up for fucking ever you texting me and Steven they caught the Golden State Killer yes and I fucking pop out of bed gasping scaring their shit at events he was like mad at me and I call you immediately it I was driving home from these Hollywood Improv just did a show there met some nice listeners who had come to the show I was having a wonderful evening coming down off of that and I I have to admit to you, although I was not reading and driving.

[20] I waited for a red light.

[21] Sure.

[22] But as I am addicted to Twitter, I open my Twitter, and I'm actually going to read his name because this is the first person who told me, which means the world to me because someone was on it and immediately was just like, did you hear this?

[23] Everyone else who's tweeted us after is loses to this guy.

[24] It is, his name's Eric, and it's at ERA -E -R -A -C -C -T -C.

[25] And he wrote, they got him, question mark.

[26] Reddit is excited.

[27] So he basically came over and let me know.

[28] And so at a red light, I open this thing and it's basically just like there is an arrest.

[29] And it's a 100 % DNA match.

[30] You know what?

[31] I didn't see that part yet.

[32] The thing that got me excited, like that I wasn't just like, oh, this is just another thing is when it said when you said reddit's excited and i'm like well reddit if reddit's excited yes that's like almost better than if fucking law enforcement is excited yeah because i feel like reddit is set up to make people stop being excited right they're the people there down it's like no no you're being you're being rash you're being immature or you're being hopeful or you're fucking pinning it on someone that has only to do with it and that's fucking illegal and crazy and stop it exactly so yes that's very important point to me so so So, and what happened, you know, then I lay down and I start fucking Googling and retiting and Twittering for fucking hours.

[33] And at first it was, they had the name of some dude that it wasn't.

[34] I'm not obviously going to say his name, but he was also in law enforcement.

[35] You know, it could have been him, all this shit.

[36] And so I did all this fucking research on him.

[37] Then it wasn't him.

[38] So, and like they put photos up.

[39] They put, it's just.

[40] Of the wrong guy?

[41] Of the wrong guy.

[42] But at the same time, this guy, this guy is a piece of show.

[43] shit too.

[44] So, I mean, whatever.

[45] But it's the wrong guy.

[46] I think it's like, that's the thing that we were talking about before.

[47] It's just this, all I can think about is the beginning of making a murderer where they are having that exact same kind of press conference.

[48] And was it Ken Crats or whoever that guy is, it's just like, we got him.

[49] This is it.

[50] And it's just that thing where as we watch stuff like this, then we're just like, this is it.

[51] Joseph DiAngelo is that, you know, police, police allege Joseph DeAngelo is the fucking Golden State killer.

[52] And then we want that to be true so bad that it's just like and now we're going all the way down this road and that's all he think about is these days how many fucking documentaries have you seen or then they pull it all apart right but i know a hundred yes the 100 % DNA match and the fact that i i think that yeah that does make a huge difference because and also because that's been happening that happens so much and what a huge high profile case this is with so many different jurisdictions i don't think these people had to do so much fact -checking.

[53] They did not arrest this fucking guy until they were sure.

[54] Otherwise, it would have looked really bad.

[55] It would have made them look incompetent.

[56] It would have been a ton of fucking jurisdictions that would look bad, not just, you know, the fucking Manitoba County or whatever the fuck.

[57] Manitoba County.

[58] Oh my God.

[59] Okay.

[60] If you could get one question answered right now.

[61] Well, let me, can I just also say this?

[62] Never in my life have experienced this from the moment you and I started talking last night I had like the Georgia so I text that then fucking thank God Georgia calls me because I was like if I have to be by myself with this information I'm gonna lose my mind yeah and Vince gave zero shits he fucking fell asleep immediately well that'd be like him going like oh my god mankind is gonna start in a movie or something you're like I want to care well I just said to him as he was leaving you know we were supposed to go to breakfast we talked about my lunch and then I was like I'm sorry this is my WrestleMania yeah he's like I know he understands he understands I can tell you made his bacon.

[63] He lives it.

[64] He lives it.

[65] He made his coffee.

[66] He made us like a spread as if we were like reporters.

[67] But I have to say, I've never had the experience of when we started talking about the reality of it getting waves of chills and just continuing to get waves of chills.

[68] I was laying down.

[69] It was four hours later.

[70] I was still getting chills.

[71] And it's like it's a feeling that I think everybody wanted to have and everyone thought they would never get to have.

[72] Everybody that cares about this case or has been paying attention.

[73] My favorite.

[74] I just, I mean, Reddit, I love Reddit.

[75] And last night, it was like, it was my, like, companion.

[76] And well, the couple of the things that I thought were so funny.

[77] One person put up a, fuck, I should find them.

[78] Can you find, no, put up a thing of that, that there's going to be a fucking sale on yearbooks from 1972 and 1973 in Sacramento today.

[79] Yes.

[80] And also that all the people who have a fucking lifetime subscription to classmates .com are really bummed right now.

[81] know.

[82] So the people who were like looking through the yearbooks.

[83] They were like, should I do it a one year, a three year or a lifetime?

[84] Right.

[85] And then they're just like, why the lifetime?

[86] But you never know.

[87] There, somebody else could come up.

[88] Yeah.

[89] I mean, it's not.

[90] That's true.

[91] Oh, it's so crazy.

[92] And then when we were talking about it on like, we were basically texting on two different threads.

[93] You text me, we were texting on two different threads because Stephen hadn't responded yet, which is so unlike Stephen.

[94] What were you doing?

[95] Steven's the first responder at all times.

[96] Steven's the first, when I saw that he starts everything, and I thought it was from Stephen because he's the one who's always like updating us on these crazy shit.

[97] Yes.

[98] I was at Margaritaville.

[99] You are so fired.

[100] It's unbelievable.

[101] Unbelievable how fired you are.

[102] You're beyond fired.

[103] Leave the equipment.

[104] Get the fuck out of here.

[105] Show us how to use it.

[106] Right.

[107] Feed my cats while we're in Europe.

[108] Take care of business.

[109] Please get the fuck out.

[110] And I just want to say how Stephen's mustache.

[111] Did you see me keep trying to videotape you?

[112] A little bit.

[113] You caught me. I don't, there's no, like, casual way.

[114] It's my, like, anxious thing of, like, I was just, like, nervously, like, holding on to it the whole time.

[115] Well, I just wanted to be, like, this is how it is.

[116] I had my fist in my mouth.

[117] Like, I couldn't bite my nails enough.

[118] I just had to then go full fist, like, an infant.

[119] I mean, we were leaning closer and closer into the computer as it was going on.

[120] Okay.

[121] But also, I have to say, it just as, like, the casual, almost, like, you know, as this infotainment, yeah.

[122] Yeah.

[123] That was such an unsatisfying press conference because we know he's in custody.

[124] We now know his name.

[125] We know that.

[126] I mean, that fucking mugshot is so uncool.

[127] It is so unnerving and upsetting looking.

[128] But he did have some scrapes on his forehead, which it looks like the cops may have accidentally thrown an elbow.

[129] Well, here's what I took away from them explaining how they detained him that they were suspecting he was going to try to kill himself, which I know is something that happens a lot.

[130] older suspects when they finally find them and they get that knock at the door and the fucking they shoot themselves yes so it sounds like maybe they had it i mean i'm just obviously conjecture yeah out of my mind of course they had to like um fucking tackle him to get a gun away from him yes or they had some kind of like they were so prepared because they had gone through so much heartbreak that they already had a guy coming in his back door you know i mean something like that where it's just like they i would first of all i'm so mad paul holes didn't get to talk during not what you have basically well paul's appearance view is way too high at this point for he's standing in the background he was like the the um he was the wallpaper of that entire press press conference and i'm just like step forward cutout it's not even him he like sold them the cutout for five hundred dollars for a one -time use and now it's going around to all the craft stores in the area because all the people that knit and deuced hand stitching and all that are like yes paul's um but i wish yeah Yes.

[131] I wish we could have just gotten the, the reason those reporters kept asking the same question over and over and then Anne Marie started to get a little pissy because Anne Marie's like, I control the information.

[132] You can tell she's just like, I don't like this fact that there's data miners that know more that I do.

[133] Totally.

[134] Clearly.

[135] But just the idea that we just want someone just walk us through real quick the day before up to the arrest.

[136] Right.

[137] How, what, where.

[138] Right.

[139] Or even like, I mean, of course, what I'm dying to know is what, you.

[140] You know, it's the thing of what led them to suspect this person enough to collect his DNA.

[141] Was it a tip?

[142] Was it, you know, was he on a list?

[143] I mean, it had to have been a tip, right?

[144] It had to have been otherwise.

[145] Why would they have?

[146] I mean, he fits the profile is what's obvious about it.

[147] He's 72 years old, so he's been the right time frame.

[148] He was, he had access to police scanners, which is something they always suspected because he was a cop, which wasn't something that they had, you know, didn't seem like something they were looking into.

[149] No. But that many had access to, you know, there's like little.

[150] things there that would have made him a suspect but I bet there were thousands of those people for sure so there had to be at least one or two tips of like and then we look at the photos side by side of him at that time the Navy photo of him and the and the fucking a couple of the sketches are like dead on dead on that hair line is a super match that's the thing I love to do yes that's right the lips the nose in that one picture where his eyes are real sunken in it's like we were just talking about how and what we should put this up on Instagram but the photo that is the most realistic and creepy that always give me chills looks the least like him yes and the one that's kind of like oh someone didn't know how to fucking draw looks the most like it's exactly him so i apologize to whoever fucking drew that i'm a piece of shit but see don't you think that that's i mean obviously but this part of what all of this is is we've been in a panic making things up this whole time of like here's my theory here's what i think you know this thing obviously leads to this thing you can't How can you not think it's this person?

[151] Because look at this.

[152] He did these things.

[153] My obsession is like, I was like secretly in my mind, but never had the guests to say.

[154] It was like he's some kind of a gymnast.

[155] He works at Cirque de Soleil.

[156] That thing of him like jumping over fences and shit is so like not the average person can do that.

[157] Well, I wonder if, as we talked about in the episode where we did the Skylight Books with Patton and everyone, where they had that tip come in that someone came into a hospital with a broken shoulder.

[158] And they had checked because they realized that jumping over a fence, he wouldn't have known that there was an incline.

[159] Oh, right.

[160] Right.

[161] So they went in and they asked hospitals around, like, did you get some character coming in?

[162] And there was a dude coming in who fucking had a broken shoulder as soon as they were onto him and realized that his idea was fake.

[163] He fucking bolted.

[164] And then the East Area rapist was fucking out of commission for a couple months.

[165] Yes.

[166] Fucking probably recovering, you know, allegedly recovering.

[167] from his shoulder injury.

[168] Yes, because you can't, you can't do all the things, right, that horrible things that he would be doing with just one arm.

[169] You can't control two people, tie them up, all that shit.

[170] I mean, so maybe that's the fucking thing that they were like, this dude has a old shoulder injury.

[171] I don't know.

[172] I mean, it had to be someone who put it together.

[173] And now, so let's in the, uh, I think it's both of our favorite piece of information that we have learned that everyone else has learned online.

[174] Yes.

[175] That this, the reason that Joseph de Angelo, who the police suspect, is the cold and state killer right the reason he was kicked off the police force in Auburn is because he was caught shoplifting dog repellent and a hammer at a pay and save and fucking citrus heights do you tell me where that is what's the place what are these places like too are the rule because you're from there where rules fuck so it's it's actually not so Auburn is rural as fuck okay Auburn is very my college roommate lived there is from there and it's very like it's not suburbs it's like it's like No, it's rural, like horse people, farm people.

[176] It's also like rolling hills with lots of coverage of oak trees.

[177] Is it like beautiful and people have expensive houses there?

[178] It's like expensive secluded houses.

[179] Exactly.

[180] Or like cheaper kind of big houses.

[181] I mean, I think it's a full range because you can live there cheaply.

[182] Right.

[183] But also on a nice, like an acre of land that looks amazing.

[184] Like everything comes with two oak trees type of place is the feel.

[185] Okay.

[186] Also remember that story I told you about the girl, my roommate.

[187] was friends with who got up in the middle of the night and there was a man in the hallway so she's just started making that noise yes that's auburn did that happened in auburn jesus so it's a little bit like it's it's it's as sketchy as a country area can be right so you think it's safe but it's so secluded that it's it's farm safe so like that's shotgun level safe if you frame your fucking neighbors aren't going to hear you they they they if they hear you they won't be there for seven minutes right and they also will mind their own fucking business yeah so you can scream if there's a pre -agreed screaming situation but uh oh so my point with that was oh just you know then there's and we talked about this in the skylight books episode uh discussion him cutting that dog open like i now want to know when he got caught that was goelita it was so it was before or after after because he cut the dog if you listen to the book yeah he cut a dog who came upon him while he was prowling fucking cut the dog open dog survived don't worry uh but the the dog repellent's interesting for two reasons because one uh that this fucking hound dogs who were sniffing his trail and in the book they talk about how they lose the fucking trail at some point they can't follow him and also the um the victim said that that he had a weird smell that they couldn't place, which I have always wondered about.

[188] I got an email recently from a fucking cool dude who was like suspecting that it was a migrant worker.

[189] And then we were both like, maybe the fertilizer was a weird smell that smells familiar, something like that.

[190] Right.

[191] And we were talking, you and I were talking about, if it were a migrant worker, it would be such a good hide and plain sight type of job because if he was kind of like, you know, acting like he was, say, a down and out person that's just trying to blend in like nobody's going to be like I am suspicious of this guy that's it's the perfect um kind of society to blend into and have nobody's going to say anything about anybody but nope it's a fucking local dad husband neighbor neighbor ex -cop which is even a better fucking way to hide to blend in right well the ultimate fucking way right it can't be this old white guy in a white t -shirt with white hair because it's just an old man it's just an old man that every once in a while yells fuck in the street which is what the neighbors allege about the alleged golden snake killer on the on the alleged news that we allegedly watched a minute ago oh my god and then we were talking about uh okay so everyone's one of everyone's favorite clues or like conjectures is that at the um town hall meeting that was had about the east area rapist while it was going on uh that that some he must have been there because a man stood up and said I don't believe that he would have, that he'd be able to break into someone's house when the husband's home and, no man would let that happen.

[192] And three months later, everyone's like a couple days later, no, three months later, that man's house got broken into, which could have been a coincidence, we don't really know, but.

[193] And they were attacked.

[194] Right.

[195] They were attacked and the husband got tied up and I mean, his wife was raped.

[196] Horrible.

[197] So God, he was a cop, you know, was, he would be so much less suspicious to be there.

[198] Like when we're looking at the photo of who's in the crowd, we're not looking at the cops right the people in uniform i would fucking glance right over them yeah especially like if he had the the cop thing and they would be interesting to be able to figure out when that when that news conference was or whatever they called it the town meeting town hall meeting i think yeah um and because he they said he was an auburn cop from 76 to 79 right i did that lie in that i think it did frame and then he could have even been standing in the front yeah he could have had his uniform on stage fucking with a bunch of cops which is the thing that so we were all texting with Billy Jensen last night who helped finish Michelle McNamara's book and he's also a crime reporter himself and we were talking about all of this where it's just like I just we were just saying he said himself I'm afraid this is a dream I'm afraid this is a dream because it's all becoming so cinematically like it's so heightened that it's a cop hiding in plain sight it's just everything about this is as surreal as it can be.

[199] And then, you know, on Reddit, they're talking about like, well, why would a cop steal?

[200] But someone was like, it makes sense as someone who likes a thrill.

[201] And the East Area rapist, it almost was like he got off on almost getting caught because he did a lot of fucking creepy weird things that were over the top.

[202] Dangerous.

[203] Dangerous.

[204] You know, and so someone having a needing to get off on like just stealing a quick thing.

[205] That would make sense.

[206] That fucking kleptomania thrill that you get.

[207] But also, because he was a cop, I bet you, he had seen things where people, they found the receipt for something and traced it back.

[208] And they only make these kind of hammers and carry them at this place.

[209] So he's like, there will be no trace of any of this stuff.

[210] So he, because he left stuff behind a lot.

[211] And so, but almost like, why would he do that unless he did it on purpose?

[212] Yeah, because like he's saying you can't catch me. Or you can't trace this to anywhere because I fucking stole it.

[213] Yeah.

[214] There's you, I know.

[215] he's working on like fucking nine different levels it's i wonder if the hammer like had the name of the store on it the way they some of them do and it's like he was going to leave it behind to be like i was even at this store and you don't know who i am right i didn't i didn't interact with the sales girl or whatever yeah because then it would lead people there and then dead end because then this girl sally would be like well i sold a hand hey this is exciting an all new season of only murders in the building is coming to hulu on august 27th steve martin martin short and Alina Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[216] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[217] Who killed Saz?

[218] And were they really after Charles?

[219] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[220] This season, murder hits close to home.

[221] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[222] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[223] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[224] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[225] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[226] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[227] Goodbye.

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[229] Absolutely.

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[242] This guy Joseph fucking DeAngelo when he was younger was engaged.

[243] They found the engagement fucking article to a woman named Bonnie.

[244] Bonnie married someone else.

[245] He married someone else.

[246] And that was in 1976.

[247] And one of the women who was sexually assaulted insisted that no, he laid down and said, fuck you Bonnie.

[248] I remember that.

[249] Not fuck you, mommy.

[250] Wow.

[251] So, yeah, I remember reading the fuck you Bonnie thing.

[252] So is that, recently.

[253] And this dude was fucking engaged to a woman named Bonnie and the engagement got broken off somehow.

[254] And was that the piece that made the final thing go click?

[255] Like could that could just uncovering that old engagement that shit doesn't get recorded by the county.

[256] Only weddings do.

[257] Like, how would you know that unless suddenly Bonnie is like, is Bonnie the one who's like, you need to look at my fucking ex?

[258] He was, I broke off my engagement with him for.

[259] whatever fucking reason.

[260] For this reason and that reason.

[261] Is he like to eat fucking dog repellent?

[262] I don't know.

[263] Wait, there was the other one.

[264] Um, there was another one that was fucking great.

[265] What was it?

[266] Jesus Christ.

[267] I'm like, so, uh, shaking.

[268] It's like a million.

[269] It's almost like the, the feeling is supposed to be that like the, um, homeland red string board.

[270] It's almost like, now we're done with that, but actually a brand new one is starting it's there's even more now there's even more of those red fucking things i want to know like what connection he we so don't know what connection he had to the other cities there's always been this guess of like maybe well there was the um city planner maybe he worked for an architecture firm right so what's the thing about this company he worked for billy jensen was telling us about it too so there was um an article that they found or it looked like it was something out of an old yearbook so this is like the yearbook data okay and it said that he i think it might have been his his his little thing they used to write a little chunk under instead of like a club scene being what was it in and what instrument you play so he worked for a place called sierra hoist and hall or some shit like that i have the name in here but essentially i was i said to billy like maybe that's the because they always thought he either had construction connections or he was in a class learning how to be an architecture or like a landscape designer that's because of the homework uh fucking piece of paper which is like my favorite fucking evidence in the world.

[271] It's so creepy.

[272] And on the back of it.

[273] This is from your spinoff podcast, my favorite evidence?

[274] Oh, I didn't tell you.

[275] Read evidence.

[276] In a fucking monotone voice where he writes punishment on the back.

[277] Yes.

[278] A piece of paper at that point, that part in fucking I'll be gone in the dark is chilling.

[279] Okay, go on.

[280] It's so scary.

[281] No, no, no. But it's just there are things on that.

[282] That company.

[283] He was a diver, which you know divers have like nuts.

[284] bodies like you have to be fit like crazy and humongous calves right swimmer divers they have to stand on their toes on a diving board their calves are and that means he was a good swimmer probably too which is like calves for days yeah so wait tell me more about the the the company that what do they do i don't know i have no idea i just saw that it the thing that he sent us it's it's sierra hoist and crane so it's basically if you have something that you need pulled up by a I thought those were last names.

[285] Or pulled out.

[286] No, no, no. It's like the two things the company.

[287] Oh, they hoist stuff and they crane shit.

[288] And they will drive a crane somewhere and they will hoist the fuck out of something for you.

[289] I was like, Mr. Hoist and Mr. Crane.

[290] I wonder how they hired this teen.

[291] Mr. Hoist was the worst boss.

[292] He was such a dick.

[293] You couldn't be four minutes late.

[294] Oh, my God.

[295] Yeah, so there's just a little bit of that.

[296] Like, it's just these things that we have no idea how they actually apply.

[297] But then your mind is going crazy of like, but just for years thinking about this stuff and not having an answer.

[298] suddenly just being like, oh, yeah, hoist and crane means they pulled trees out of the lots where they eventually built those, you know, that's what my mind did of like, and I said that to Billy Jenton.

[299] He's like, possibly.

[300] I know, Belichens is like so, we harassed Billy Jensen last night.

[301] I think I deleted it before.

[302] I, so he, he messaged the two of us in a group text.

[303] Yeah.

[304] The reason is, did you see my original message?

[305] I don't know.

[306] I thought, I thought I deleted it before either of you could see it because I was like Georgia chill the fuck out but I met he doesn't even know us that well like don't be a fucking we've met him twice I yeah yeah I messaged him and said the three of us and said Billy please tell us anything I pinkie swear we won't tell like I just wanted I knew he had more information and I just wrote pinkie swear we won't say anything and then immediately it's like you are fucking psychotic Georgia and I deleted it but I guess he already saw it before I deleted it so you didn't see it no I did see that message and when I saw that message I was like fuck yes oh i was like what is wrong with you no i love that you did that because also i think he wouldn't tell us anything he couldn't tell us and then i was like well what if he tells us something it gets out through some other way and he thinks that we're the ones who fucking spilled the beans right so i just i was just like forget it but i guess you can't delete messages i didn't know that i think you can only delete them from your own maybe yeah maybe it's just like you never have to acknowledge it again for your own life but i thought it was hilarious that you did that and i think this is a that special circumstance of like it's as if we all love the Philadelphia Eagles.

[307] Right.

[308] I've never understood sports fans.

[309] I get it now.

[310] This is it.

[311] This is the feeling of it's you're so engaged.

[312] You've been following it for so long.

[313] You care about these people.

[314] Our team has had bad luck for fucking 40 years.

[315] And everyone thinks that we're cursed.

[316] And we fucking won today.

[317] Yeah, the Super Bowl.

[318] Also, those women who appeared in the case file three part series that were the victims that spoke for themselves.

[319] That they're fucking, the woman whose mother was the victim, their sisters or family.

[320] that she they read that that anne marie read that that was her letter that was dead from debby because her mom was murdered and that part of that book is so fucking sad when she's like the rebellious teenage daughter and then she comes home one day and her mother's murdered it's so bad and his brother speaking yeah they're the fucking players and we were rooting for them this whole time and they finally fucking won and they had to like they have had to endure that motherfucker mr harrington uh no no mr harrington oh i thought you meant that in a positive way Like that motherfucking out, badass mother fucking.

[321] The East Area rapist and the Golden State Killer, allegedly Joseph D. Angelo, as police have named by 100 % DNA, would call them and harass them years afterwards.

[322] That's another one of the things.

[323] So fucked up.

[324] It's so fucked out.

[325] That's another one of the things is there's that we all watched the, it was the ID special.

[326] What was it called?

[327] It's not over yet until it's over.

[328] Yes.

[329] The Golden State Killer, it's not over.

[330] Right.

[331] So that's an incredible document.

[332] And actually one of the guys, the like, arm, they keep calling the armchair detective or whatever, he's one of the guys on Reddit who was like out like he was the one to follow.

[333] He was telling us everything.

[334] Yeah.

[335] So he, they posted.

[336] He was great in that special.

[337] He was really good.

[338] They posted a thing, uh, about one of the calls that was recorded the going to kill you recording.

[339] Yes.

[340] And everyone tried to figure out in the, in the documentary what was playing in the background.

[341] It sounded like people were talking.

[342] I went down that rabbit hole one night.

[343] And it was, uh, they.

[344] They figured out what movie it was.

[345] No, no, no, it was a TV movie from the 1970s, and they figured out what part of the movie it was.

[346] But now they're saying this one guy, this random fucking dude on Reddit posted, yeah, but I think I heard some, like, a police scanner chatter in the background.

[347] And it was just a blip.

[348] It was just a fucking blip on Reddit.

[349] And it's fucking legit.

[350] It's true.

[351] That's what they fucking heard.

[352] Not because he had a fucking scanner, because he was a fucking cop.

[353] He was a cop.

[354] I've had a lot of coffee.

[355] I mean, no, no, no. Look, this is like, this is an explosion.

[356] This is a fucking explosion.

[357] It's so, I just didn't think it was going to happen.

[358] I really didn't.

[359] I just bought, um, I just bought a, uh, what is it called when you monitor your heart to see how fast it's beating.

[360] Uh, was it a heart monitor?

[361] Uh, yeah.

[362] Should we go see how?

[363] Like a cuff?

[364] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[365] Put your cuff on.

[366] Okay, I'm going to go get it for us and we're going to see.

[367] Yeah, let's keep your, let's keep you medically observed.

[368] No, I just, um, uh, I, It is such a strange.

[369] No, it's funny.

[370] Let's just see how you're doing.

[371] But also we have to add the coffee element into it as well.

[372] We've all been drinking a lot of coffee.

[373] You know what?

[374] What?

[375] I'm not going to do it.

[376] How come?

[377] Because it's weird.

[378] Blood pressure.

[379] You don't want people knowing about your blood pressure.

[380] My blood pressure cuff.

[381] How to begin with right now?

[382] Anyways, that's not what we're talking about.

[383] I'm just texting with my friend Dave Escondari, who we all lived in Sacramento at the same time, went to, we kind of all were like dropouts that then.

[384] ended up going to Sacramento that sack city was the junior college there and he and uh uh we had this group of friends like six friends and we jokingly called ourselves the 18th street hell cats oh my god because we all lived on 18th street but it was sarcastic but then we actually started doing it for real the hell cats um but he texted me this morning and i was like isn't it weird we lived there like this is this thing that that in my and all my ego moniasism i'm just like, but this is a weird thing where this is part of my history.

[385] Like I do know I had my, like when I said to my sister today, I, of course, called her in the morning, was like, they caught him, he's this, he's that, da, da, da, da.

[386] And when I said he lives in citrus heights, the man they arrested lives in citrus heights.

[387] My sister goes, oh, remember when we stopped to drive out to citrus heights when I had to do that thing for work?

[388] And like, we started talking about and it's what I've already told you, but there's this, there's a bleakness or there was in the 90s, the 80s and 90s in Sacramento.

[389] And this like these long streets that went on forever and all it was was asphalt and mini malls and a horizon that had nothing on it and it i thought i was fucking dying every day in that city yeah and just that idea that like it almost feels i know it's also serving it just almost feels like i was justified a little bit like fit bad fucking vibes those bad vibes were real i keep thinking about so and i'm from irvine where a couple like the later in the 80s where when I was a kid growing up there there was a couple incidents there in murders and stuff it's too much it's it's a weird like suddenly you're watching a movie and suddenly you walk by in the background as an eight year old that's the feeling it's this weird like am I background player in this thing which is just I think that's just human that's human nature to kind of be like how is this fair enough I mean fine well it's the places that we thought of and that we in that were sinister and dark and either were not at all what we thought they were or exactly what they thought we what they thought they were if we were creepy kids yeah that's right it's like maybe we were getting a psychic feeling yeah maybe it was just too much asphalt from my precious you know delicate system maybe your brain inhaled too much asphalt can I give a shout out really quickly to a murderino on Twitter her name is Kara Stone it's K -U -R -R -A Lynn.

[390] She tweeted, just snuck into the press -only conference for the Golden State Killer by saying I was with SSDGM Daily News.

[391] Honey.

[392] And did she make fake press credentials or did she just fucking, she just like.

[393] You don't need him if you're confident.

[394] She just nailed it.

[395] She had her little hat with the word press on the ring.

[396] Oh, she says, I'm kind of freaking out because I'm wearing my murdering shirt and everyone else is dressed very nice.

[397] I don't, I didn't think this one through.

[398] Then let's see if she's wrote, uh, will you be live tweeting, blah, blah, but she said, I'm trying to look casual because people are staring at me. Yeah.

[399] I love her.

[400] Girl, she risked it all much.

[401] And then, um, someone says you didn't lie though.

[402] Yeah, that's true.

[403] You are with us.

[404] You are now.

[405] Yeah.

[406] Um, then didda, da, da, da, I think that's all she wrote.

[407] She, she probably in fucking jail, right?

[408] County jail, because she'll, I mean, we'll bail her out.

[409] It was, no, we will not ever.

[410] If you do something, you're on your own.

[411] Stephen will use his money that we pay him finally.

[412] His birthday money.

[413] His birthday money.

[414] We got him a U .S. bond for his birthday.

[415] Okay.

[416] That's it.

[417] Well, it looked like they were having that, obviously, that press conference, like in front of the station, River.

[418] So I wonder how they would have gotten it, like you're not allowed in and you are allowed in.

[419] I think pretty easily.

[420] I bet she could roll along up.

[421] Parking lot style.

[422] Yeah.

[423] I mean, yeah.

[424] I've lied by saying I'm with my community college journalism team to get into like things before nice it's not true what else it wasn't true you were on the journalism team or the whole story you just told me wasn't true no the journalism team I don't know how it's not true I've never snuck in oh that's true um Howard Dean conference no sure are you there when he did the weird scream unfortunately I was there like two weeks before and I was like I love this guy Howard Dean Howard Dean was great and then he fucking screamed what was I going to say okay if you could get one like how do you do it question or one like why why this why did he do this answered what would it be or like confirmation because I have this thing of like the couple that was killed which is what he got arrested for in Sacramento because the goddamn motherfucking statute of limitations about rape ends pretty quickly so it wouldn't matter anyways so they got him on these murders but so the murder that's changing in places as though, isn't it?

[425] One would hope.

[426] I think there was one story we read where they were changing it.

[427] They are, yeah.

[428] Anyway.

[429] So, Brian and Kate Majore, they were that sweet couple who were walking their poodle, and it's just like a, it's a freak thing that didn't fit the M .O. at all, but was for various reasons, you know, pretty sure that it was East Area Rapist.

[430] They encountered him somehow and he chased them down and shot them in a backyard.

[431] Yeah.

[432] And through their poodle in the pool.

[433] which is creepy and weird.

[434] So maybe the poodle happened upon him and was barking.

[435] And so he threw it in the pool.

[436] They got in an altercation.

[437] Or maybe Brian fucking recognized him as a fellow cop because he was an Air Force officer.

[438] And so he had to kill them.

[439] This is different than this time where there was an FBI agent that chased him down.

[440] That's a different one, right?

[441] He got on a bike and then he was in a car.

[442] No, that's a different one.

[443] That's so crazy.

[444] And that guy got shot but didn't die, right?

[445] I don't know if you got shot.

[446] I don't know that part.

[447] Okay, yeah.

[448] It's so, because it went on so long and there's all these, there's so many of these.

[449] 50 sexual assaults.

[450] And there are people who know every single one of these incidents and we know like the people on Reddit are like MIT and we are essentially entertainment tonight.

[451] Absolutely.

[452] So like if you want the good stuff, go on to these Reddit threads because there are people that have been working on this shit for fucking eight years.

[453] And I mean, I'm wondering how many more are now going to be tied in that don't have DNA or he's going to.

[454] They said, I remember seeing he's talking.

[455] They caught this guy last night.

[456] He's talking.

[457] Right.

[458] I wonder if he's just like, you know, because a lot of these fucking killers are actually cocky at the end of the day.

[459] And they want to be like, no, no, no, that's not how it happened.

[460] And they want credit for these things that they're not getting credit for.

[461] They're being very well manipulated by detectives in the interrogation to like get them to spill.

[462] And I think in this day and age, like truly because it's 2018, they all those guys know how not to do it.

[463] Right.

[464] I'm sure they're very, very concerned about exactly how they interrogate him to get him to open and stay open.

[465] And not only that, so that it's admissible in court.

[466] Exactly.

[467] So they're putting it up in any way.

[468] No, no, they're putting their best guys on this one.

[469] And I say their best guys, ladies, guys and ladies.

[470] Guys and ladies, but probably especially Paul Holes.

[471] If Paul Holes came into the room, you did something wrong, he puts his hands on his hips underneath his blazer and starts explaining shit to you.

[472] You're just like, yes, me a culpe of Paul Holes, I got to get this off my chest.

[473] Or if he's like, Joe, what did you do?

[474] Joe, you son of a bitch, and he does some kind of secret cop thing with him.

[475] Get some of a ring pop.

[476] His favorite ring pop.

[477] Hey, man, I brought you a ring pop.

[478] The ring pop theory.

[479] No, the grape is your favorite.

[480] Oh, my God.

[481] You love grape.

[482] You love grape.

[483] It's also because he's so old.

[484] To me, that was the other part of not having hope.

[485] I mean, just in terms of like, there's, like, if he did all these things and he's not doing them anymore, there's no way he's still alive.

[486] And that ain't a 72 -year -old, like my dad, Marty, my dad, Marty looks fucking great for 72.

[487] He's got a lot of time left.

[488] That guy's a fucking, this Joe guy is an old fucking piece of shit.

[489] It looks like something's been weighing on him.

[490] Maybe, yeah.

[491] Over the years.

[492] stressing him out.

[493] Yeah, my dad's 78, and I think he looks better than that guy.

[494] Your dad looks better than my dad.

[495] Your dad looks better than me. Keep it healthy.

[496] You got to keep it healthy.

[497] You got to walk every day.

[498] The trick is don't have baggage.

[499] hanging over your head, like being a fucking rapist and murderer.

[500] Being like a serial rapist to a degree where I think, and also it's, I understand that Anne -Marie was like, quit trying to say that a bunch of other people did this work and we didn't do it because we've been doing the work.

[501] I get that.

[502] Or like, I wonder if even Michelle McNamara, they want to say thank you for bringing it to the public eye, but like giving her credit might even piss them off somehow a little bit.

[503] Well, or it takes away from.

[504] the people who do it for a living maybe right right or how many yeah I just wish one person had said before Michelle McNamara started writing articles doing all the shit writing for fucking totally different magazines call saying we need to call him the golden state killer right we need to let's get everyone I'm going to go to all of the scenes I'm going to fucking I'm going to make these cops talk to each other like dedicate my life to this and there was an element of pressure from her they're not going to talk about being pressured of course by a citizen right but I think that her bringing it to the media made them go yes we are working on it and like maybe that is not always a positive thing with the police and and like data minors and armchair experts but at this same time I no one was fucking talking about it before and this was a thing that like of all the murders and rape cases in the nation it was obscure it was not well known If this fucking hashtag right now was, what was it, Eron's, Eron's?

[505] Yeah.

[506] Esteria rapist.

[507] What was it?

[508] Esteria rapist.

[509] Original nights.

[510] Original nights.

[511] So it's Eron's.

[512] Right.

[513] If this fucking hashtag was Eron's right now, do you think he'd be half as fucking blowing up as Golden State cash tag Golden State Killer?

[514] Right.

[515] Which is like the fucking, she was, they were right, a beautiful, catchy name.

[516] Go listen to, um, there's a three part podcast called All Be Gone in the Dark that just explains with all the players how this book came to be.

[517] It's really well done.

[518] It's a really quick listen if you just knew to catch up.

[519] Get all the info.

[520] And one of them is that they knew that this needed a fucking better name, you know?

[521] Because it needed to reflect that he fucking terrorized the entire state in all these counties.

[522] There was no jurisdiction that was more important, although, you know, Sacramento obviously is the grandfather and the original hunting ground and all that.

[523] But that all these other things happen and it had to be cohesively approached.

[524] And I do think that and maybe that's just because.

[525] that's the that's what I like yeah but I think her going around and being like fine I'll do it just copy it for me made everyone else go like no no no no we got it yeah like she wasn't going to stop she fucking she fucking she really did and that's brilliantly yeah brilliantly branded and then wrote about it oh I know we talked about it so much gorgeous it's like it's like um I called my I told my friend today oh it's fact pro because it's as dry as facts can be.

[526] She then turns it into this thing where suddenly you're looking at a picture.

[527] You're not reading a sentence.

[528] Poetic.

[529] Yeah.

[530] Words that I would never use but fit so perfectly.

[531] I don't know what that's called.

[532] Good writing.

[533] You know what I did last night?

[534] I was like, okay, finally, I'm just refreshing everything.

[535] It's the same information.

[536] It's fucking three in the morning.

[537] There's nothing new.

[538] I took a Xanax, which is I never do anymore, and I knew I had to.

[539] And then I thought.

[540] You were almost up for 24.

[541] four hours.

[542] I know.

[543] Then I put in my headphones, which I always do to fall asleep.

[544] I've been listening to I needed something nice and light lately because I've been listening to fucking, I'll be gone in the dark at night and it's been scaring the shit out of me. Yes.

[545] I've been listening to fucking Douglas Adams lately, but I fucking put on, I'll be gone in the fucking dark in my headphones and fell asleep to it.

[546] Wow.

[547] And I, it was awesome.

[548] Because it's a different story now.

[549] I was not freaking out and I was not scared.

[550] My heart was fucking happy as I listened to it and fell sleep.

[551] And as Mr. is it Hetherington or Harrington?

[552] Harrington said Bruce Harrington, Bruce Harrington, the brother of one of the victims and his wife.

[553] Those victims get to, for the first time in fucking 40 -something years, they get to rest easy.

[554] And what a, I mean, what a relief that he's not dead.

[555] Yes.

[556] You know?

[557] What a satisfying, like, it would be great if they found him and he was dead.

[558] Glad we fucking found out.

[559] At least found him, exactly.

[560] That would have been totally satisfying.

[561] But this is a different thing.

[562] And and if they handle it right, which I believe in these people that they will.

[563] Absolutely.

[564] And they're so by the book and they're, I mean, it was funny how crazy, careful they started being.

[565] It's like, why take questions if you're not going to answer your questions?

[566] But also, how about Anne -Marie getting super pissed when they're like, is it related to Mr. Cruel?

[567] And she was like, no. Yeah.

[568] Or it's just like, wait, what's the problem?

[569] Yeah.

[570] All these Australians are like, we're just waiting to hear our guy's been caught too.

[571] Right.

[572] Because there are so many, there's so many, um, you know, I read the same article everybody else did, but I was surprised I didn't know there were that many M .O. matches.

[573] Yeah.

[574] The eating, like sticking around and eating.

[575] Yep.

[576] And surveilling for like weeks and months beforehand and all that.

[577] Oh, it's so creepy.

[578] It's so crazy.

[579] What about, what else?

[580] What else would you want to know?

[581] Um, I want to know what the connections with the other locations are.

[582] Obviously, especially Irvine.

[583] I already text my dad and said, hey, did you know an ex cop in Irvine in 1986 -ish?

[584] That's such a good idea.

[585] You're like, did you ever hang out and talk to this guy at the donut shop or whatever?

[586] Maybe.

[587] I didn't, that wasn't a slur against cops.

[588] It was the first place I thought of.

[589] Like where we want to be right now.

[590] Where would Marty hang out?

[591] Like a Whole Foods type of place?

[592] Yeah.

[593] Mothers.

[594] They were called Mothers Market back then.

[595] Because he's a little bit of a hippie, right?

[596] He's a fucking carabiding hippie.

[597] Kidding me?

[598] Now, was Janet a hippie or was she just playing ball in the 70s?

[599] they were just like the health food fanatic hippies smoking pot chippies yeah but they weren't they were they were yuppies oh okay yeah they were totally yuppies got it got it they were can you be a yuppie and not have money they had the yet they lived a yuppie lifestyle um like if you could see this written it would be fuppies but faux yuppies faux yuppies that's exactly right for you It would still have A -U -X, but fuppies.

[600] I mean, I can't even think of what I want to hear of those near -miss times.

[601] We know of the ones, but like in, because I read that book by one of the other investigators, and he wrote a, like, self -published book that's that thick.

[602] It's so long and crazy.

[603] But it was basically just his firsthand experience of over and over again getting called to these houses where the victims are sitting on the couch crying and they had this horrible thing happen to them.

[604] It's so incredible.

[605] One of the times he talks about was a time where police pulled a guy over the morning after an attack.

[606] He had all this weird shit in his car and they let him go anyway.

[607] And he got on the freeway north and basically toured Auburn.

[608] Shit.

[609] And that part of the story, it's just like they, no one knows.

[610] And that that was like my thing, alleged fucking all this other illegal shit.

[611] But it's like if he was a cop and they saw him in his car.

[612] car did they just go oh it's that guy go ahead you're fine yeah or like when you get when you're a cop and you get pulled over you fucking when they ask you for your license you hand them your fucking cop ID and they're like oh go ahead yeah it's over it's not there's no discussion it'd be it'd be fucking disrespectful which I wonder if he kept all this shit around them so even if he was kicked off the fucking dude right still dressed up like him and the prowling maybe he wasn't prowling maybe he was fucking walking around dressed well I guess someone would have said they saw a cop dress Yeah.

[613] A cop by himself would be weird.

[614] A cop car might be.

[615] No. I don't know.

[616] I would want to know also about the real estate element.

[617] That thing where there was a guy that used to show up at open houses that would be across from places or, I mean, that whole part is, I don't even know.

[618] I just want to know everything.

[619] They too.

[620] I think we will.

[621] I hope we do.

[622] I wonder if I wish Billy would call us.

[623] Oh, you know what they were saying?

[624] I was going to ask you because they were talking about, they were trying to get.

[625] at this press conference they were just trying to get amory and our boy uh um scott jones who i'm positive i drank with at poppy poppies in the late 80s poppies the worst bar in america he looks so familiar to me he's like every guy had a crush on in sacramento but um they were talking they were trying to get them to answer questions about that surveillance time right how exciting is it to think about those cops where they were in the lab they were like it's a fucking match now go surveil him or get the here's the thing we need the thing to match it would be the match first yeah they would go to get the match this guy looks good this guy looks good it's ding it's 18 points on the 20 point chart right and then two guys go sit in a car waiting now tell me georgia you are now one of those guys okay or ladies or ladies because anything can happen and we say guys we mean people we yeah so you are a police person that's gotten sent to surveil this very good -looking suspect for as long as it takes so that he comes out and spits on the lawn, throws his cup in the ditch.

[626] He's a litterer.

[627] What is he?

[628] Like, what do you see?

[629] What's your dream thing of how that surveillance happened that they snuck his DNA?

[630] Okay.

[631] Or legally acquired?

[632] Well, I mean, it's really, I feel like it seems so simple.

[633] And the most obvious one is if he's a smoker.

[634] But the problem is.

[635] say he is a smoker and he puts a cigarette out in an ashtray.

[636] Well, there's no way to prove that that's his actual but unless it's a brand new clean cigarette, cigarette.

[637] But, you know, maybe he's a smoker and he flicks his fucking cigarette.

[638] That guy doesn't look like a fucking health nut to me. So maybe he's a smoker.

[639] He definitely looks like a smoker and a person that drinks a huge, a big gulp all day long.

[640] Absolutely a big gulp.

[641] So, I mean, you know, they have their ways.

[642] The spitting on the ground is good, but it'd have to be like, I remember there was one case where they did the spitting on the ground, but the only way they were able to use it is because he had just rained.

[643] And so the spit was sitting on top of the rain and the cement.

[644] So it wasn't like part of the ground because then it'd be like, well, this is.

[645] They couldn't introduce all the other spit and weird shit that was there.

[646] Exactly.

[647] Exactly.

[648] Or maybe they arrested him on something else and got his DNA through that way.

[649] Like, you know what I mean?

[650] Maybe they, but it like, but he probably was so careful.

[651] Yes.

[652] And there's no way that they would have been like, we got you for a stop, you ran a stop sign.

[653] Hey, can we get your DNA by the way?

[654] No. No, not that guy.

[655] Then you'll never speak to that guy again.

[656] He's going to lawyer up.

[657] Not the guy who was caught for shoplifting, a dog repellent, and a hammer.

[658] And then when they said, you have to go under review for the Auburn Police Department, said no thanks and just took being dismissed.

[659] Right.

[660] Because he didn't want to even talk about it.

[661] Okay.

[662] Well, so allegedly from what Reddit has told me that he has a. two daughters that were born in 81 and 86.

[663] So, of course, they're my age -ish.

[664] I looked them up on Facebook.

[665] Are we friends?

[666] I don't think we are.

[667] But I want to know about them.

[668] And did they read, I'll be gone in the dark?

[669] Did they ever say to mom and dad, hey, do you guys freaking out that at that time of, you know, at that time?

[670] You guys, we lived here.

[671] Because that has happened for other killers when their children suspect them.

[672] Really?

[673] Or family members suspect them.

[674] Yeah.

[675] isn't that the happy face killer's daughter is the reason like she's she the one that article was she wrote that article recently what's it called like i don't know but she did have a tv show for a little while where she would go and meet other like she interviewed btk's wife you know she would go and talk to families and i would say this too yeah like nobody should be in any way contact it obviously absolutely not but like we know that there's all this weird access these days for people, it would be living hell to be related to this person today.

[676] Do you know they've already tracked down the Yelp review of what they're assuming, Reddit is assuming is his wife's business.

[677] No. And there's some like really negative Yelp review.

[678] That what a fucking psycho she is.

[679] Oh, no. But it's like, who knows where she is, what's going on?

[680] Who wrote this review?

[681] If it's even her actual business, if it's even actually his wife.

[682] But the article is called the struggle to find, my struggle to find.

[683] peace as the daughter of a serial killer on Huffington Post, which I keep meaning to read.

[684] Oh, that's for a smiley face killer?

[685] Yeah, one of the, yeah.

[686] Okay, what about you?

[687] What is your, you're, um, you're sitting in the interrogation room with him.

[688] You have one fucking shot.

[689] What, what, uh, what would, what, uh, tactic would you take?

[690] I mean, I don't, I couldn't do it.

[691] I find like these criminals so abhorrent.

[692] Like, I just don't even want to be anywhere in near the building.

[693] But I would want Paul, if I could be inside Paul Holes or like just watch as what he did, what I would have your DNA inside of you, right?

[694] Are you being dirty about Paul Holes?

[695] I am.

[696] If you could be, if you could be surrounded your heart and spirit and smells and, Tastes with Paul, inside Paul holes.

[697] If I could just surveil Paul holes, this is, we can't keep doing this, but.

[698] Okay, interrogate Stephen, like he's the, now I can't, this improv is so weird.

[699] I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

[700] Just interrogate Stephen.

[701] I just, okay, so you're saying you were at Margaritaville, but you don't seem hungover at all today or that you have sugar poisoning from, what kind of margarita did you get?

[702] Yeah.

[703] I got the spicy, the hot, hot, hot, and I'm very hungover.

[704] oh you're pulling it off really nice Stephen is that that glow about you it's that that 31 year old about him oh that's right you're not hung over yet Stephen there's bacon and fucking bagels right here Stephen throws up on all the equipment on it oh wait you did you press play did you remember to press play you drank margaritas that were spicy I love spicy margaritas it has like a jalapeno yes the best with salt yeah oh the best I've such an ulcer you're old you're not you're old but you're you don't it's too late you already said it and it's recorded you are an old drinker meaning like you weren't around you just did it again you're a fucking old drinker I know oh I know no no I missed the period of like good drinks a hundred percent no I burned out I burned out on like Bartles and James right acid stomach from wine coolers yeah yeah that's how bad it was you didn't get a drink fucking classy shit with no the mixology was far off.

[705] No one had a fucking curly -ass mustache when I was in bars.

[706] It was all free popcorn and like fucking Miller light in a small glass.

[707] It was dark shit.

[708] And it was in Sacramento.

[709] And smoking allowed.

[710] And smoke, please smoke.

[711] Waitresses handing you lit cigarettes.

[712] That never happened.

[713] But yeah, no, it was like, it was like it was a hundred years ago.

[714] Yeah.

[715] And I think about all of those times.

[716] They were like, here, become an alcoholic.

[717] It's so easy.

[718] We want to, we want to make it happen as in, but And it's like, nowadays, they're like, here, every drink is $14 fucking dollars.

[719] So you can only be an alcoholic, but if you're rich as fuck.

[720] And if you come anywhere near us with a cigarette, we're going to murder you.

[721] Right.

[722] It's like you have to be some kind of a connoisseur these days to be an alcoholic, which I just don't have the energy for.

[723] And you see an alcoholic and you're like, oh, that guy must be rich.

[724] Yes.

[725] Because you're buying drinks that have those huge ice cubes in them that are like designer ice cubes.

[726] And they measure everything.

[727] So like you're not, it's like an ounce and a half of alcohol.

[728] And you're like, it doesn't matter.

[729] I'm just going to swallow it really fast.

[730] Like, giving my dog a treat where she, I look at George and go, please just chew this twice.

[731] Like, please.

[732] And she just go, like, I'll give her leftover steak from like a dinner we were at.

[733] And I hold it out and she swalleled.

[734] She inhales it.

[735] She doesn't even taste it.

[736] I'm like, bite it twice.

[737] You'll love the taste.

[738] Even better.

[739] Elvis does that too with cookies.

[740] He sometimes just swallows them all.

[741] Oh, okay.

[742] Fucking alligators.

[743] Where were we?

[744] I don't know.

[745] Yeah, a couple people at the, great idea that this needs to be an MFM.

[746] Do you need a ride crossover?

[747] Chris Fairbanks is just driving us to fucking Sacramento.

[748] You know, we could take the entire drive up to Sacramento to explain to Chris Fairbanks what the entire case is and what's happening.

[749] He's being, um, I never heard of this before.

[750] And I don't care, and I still don't care.

[751] I'm not interested.

[752] I also would just like to say this really quick.

[753] I know that Georgia posted our text thread where I talk shit about Sacramento, and I just want people to know lots of people texting and saying, it's not like that anymore.

[754] come you're going to love it blah blah i hear you i know it and is that him i don't know hold on oh oh is it okay is it okay that we're recording our podcast we need confirmation yes i do want to be on it yeah yeah we're seeing we're being real official we're trying to be real yeah we're taking your first step into a larger world we've said the word alleged 15 fucking times yes in the past two minutes.

[755] The police, the man the police say is the Golden State Killer.

[756] How are you?

[757] You must be so thrilled.

[758] Why?

[759] What's going on today?

[760] Yeah.

[761] No, it's been a, it's been definitely a crazy day.

[762] Congratulations.

[763] I mean, how long have you been, would you, oh shit, Stephen, give me that charger.

[764] How long would you say you've been working on this case altogether?

[765] For me, not that long.

[766] It's only really after she died.

[767] Okay.

[768] After Michelle died is when I started working on it.

[769] I knew about it because I was friends with her and I constantly would talk to her about it and I read about it a lot, but it was really only when she died that I started getting into it.

[770] So because you are, professionally you are a crime reporter anyway.

[771] I mean, that's your whole, this is your whole area.

[772] Correct.

[773] Yeah.

[774] So, so basically you just jumped in when you were needed.

[775] Yeah, which a killer.

[776] It wasn't, You know, I knew other people would be thinking of Alice and thinking of Pat, and I was just like, well, did this guy win?

[777] Right.

[778] Yeah.

[779] And then it was about the book and it was, what can we do?

[780] I will do anything I can to make sure that this book comes out because I want someone to do that for me because I know how much she worked on it, you know, hours and hours and hours of working on it.

[781] Yeah.

[782] So that's what I, that's what I made sure of.

[783] And did you watch this press conference they just gave?

[784] I did.

[785] What did you think?

[786] I don't necessarily know if I want to talk exactly about what I thought of it.

[787] Okay.

[788] I think there was a lot of, it was very political.

[789] Yeah.

[790] I think they were definitely, the DAs were definitely all there, and they were covering all their bases.

[791] Bases or asses?

[792] You know, and I would have liked to have seen the guys that were in the trenches.

[793] Yeah.

[794] Where they really worked on this case?

[795] Where was Paul Holes and Ken Clark?

[796] Yeah.

[797] You know, Larry Poole or, you know, Crompton or Shelby or Erica, you know, those people that really worked it on a day -to -day basis that really took the stuff home.

[798] I mean, a lot of them did get mentioned, but this was very much a political thing.

[799] They didn't tell us much.

[800] The two things that we did hear, one of them that said they kind of buried a little bit, and the press didn't exactly know to follow up on it, is that they confirmed that he was the Vassalia Ransacker.

[801] Right.

[802] They just, like, glazed over it.

[803] Yeah, the press didn't realize to, you know, they were more interested in whether he was the guy from Australia, because they obviously all Googled Golden State Killer was the first thing that was the first thing that came up at Google News.

[804] Right.

[805] So what about Ant?

[806] That was caught the, uh, oh, really?

[807] Certain area, and then that sounds like, you know, nexus statistics and enough of the markers from that DNA and then they were able to go through.

[808] and then the detective work, and Shoe love the detective work that they were doing, which really just saying, that's not the guy, that's not the guy, eliminating people over and over and over again, and then finally getting into the guy they thought it was.

[809] And then they remarked that, you know, they watched his activities or lack thereof, which meant that he wasn't leaving the house.

[810] Ooh.

[811] I was feeling that he just was kind of a couch potato, he was just kind of sitting there, and they were waiting for him to leave the house so they can collect DNA.

[812] So they very well might have collected that DNA, what they were calling discarded DNA off of, you know, the way they did it with the grim sleeper was off of a piece of piece and I think.

[813] Yes, that's right.

[814] Or like collecting his trash, like doing a trash collection.

[815] Trash by place house.

[816] Because trash, you never know who it could be.

[817] And it gets a little messy, for lack of a better term.

[818] Right.

[819] Well, you know, that's what we were talking about is we, our theory, is that these cops, whatever they did, they did it so carefully and so exactly.

[820] and so by the book to make sure that whatever they did couldn't be like that would hold up entirely wouldn't I mean that's a safe assumption right once I talked to one of the victims back down yes and that's the one that gave me chills when you talked about that because to me that's so real like they wouldn't be leading people on if they didn't think they had their guy yeah it seems to me that family is not going to want to wake up and they're not going to want them to wake up in the morning you're not going to tell the family.

[821] Right.

[822] That would be ridiculously cruel.

[823] Yes.

[824] And also it's like the majority murder, which is just too, which there wasn't DMM involved in.

[825] Yes.

[826] It's so cool.

[827] And now is that a thing you deal with sometimes where you suspect things or things start coming down the pipe, but you have to wait for those certain moments to actually run with it?

[828] Like, do you know all those?

[829] Oh, yeah.

[830] The ins and out so much.

[831] You know, I don't do it as much as I used to do when I worked in newspapers.

[832] So when you're working in newspapers, you always had to get it and obviously get two confirmations you can't just run with one confirmation and that's always a you know you're seeing less and less of that now right I'm actually running something that is not real yeah that's the worst thing that's the worst thing you can do as journalist other than is there um is there a question or like a fact you're really looking forward to having um confirmed or answered or anything like that that you're just excited about or already yeah it's that your homework yeah we've already yeah we've already yeah but I'm sure he had other victims, particularly sexual assault victims, and that's one of the things that I talked, was just on the phone with Paul Haynes, the researcher from the book, and that's what we talked about, and I said, you know, go, you know, if you're bored tonight, in places that he was, let's start building a timeline on this guy and start seeing reports of sexual assaults because they didn't take, you know, they didn't take rape kits all the time in sexual assaults, and this guy might have gone here or there on a summer camp, was who knows what he was doing at the time yeah yeah with all the moving around yeah i think there's definitely going to be while it looks like he really did stick around it really was the golden state killer jesus he fucking stayed in citrus heights i mean like it's so crazy he stayed in the right in the center of the of the of the bulls of the tar the bulls eye of the fucking dartboard yeah how cocky of him i mean yeah well he was comfortable yeah he was comfortable there yeah i think that's one of the main reasons why he would do what he did and why he would only strike certain neighborhoods because he came he became comfortable in those neighborhoods yeah are there any pieces right now like for me there's a million that you're like oh that makes sense like any of those little answers that are that little questions that are being answered now that you know that he's either a cop or he's local or he stayed there or he's still alive the cop the cop thing I always thought that he had a scanner right yeah because of the way that he knew where the patrols were when they started amping up the patrols and he would attack at other locations.

[833] I thought he had a scanner.

[834] I didn't think he had the scanner.

[835] I didn't think he had a police scanner because he was an actual policeman.

[836] That's going to be the other shoe to drop in terms of, and it's really going to be up to local law media.

[837] Somebody at the SACD to figure out what he was doing as a police officer.

[838] Why, I mean, think about this, and this is, think about how big of a red flag this is.

[839] You're a cop.

[840] You get arrested for shopping.

[841] When you get accused, and you weren't arrested, you get accused for shoplifting, dog repellent, and a hammer.

[842] Yeah.

[843] And they say, all right, we're going to do a disciplinary hearing and everything like that.

[844] And no police union comes to your aid, and you don't fight it.

[845] Yeah.

[846] You just said, all right, I'm done.

[847] I'm done.

[848] That you never see that happening.

[849] That should have been a red flag to say, why does he not want people looking into his background?

[850] Do you know what year that happened, the shoplifting and the disciplinary hearing?

[851] It was in the 70s.

[852] I think it was early 70.

[853] Obviously, probably 79, right?

[854] If that was the year he was out of the Auburn police?

[855] Yeah, I think so.

[856] Maybe 70.

[857] I'm not sure.

[858] What about, I mean, I wonder if that disciplinary thing, they were like, you have all these other points against you.

[859] We'll have someone look into it, or you can just quietly resign and we won't look at it.

[860] Honestly, I've been there.

[861] And I think it was the boots on the ground, the real detectives, they would say, oh, my God, this was one of our.

[862] or it was somebody that was like us and they would be upset and want to know it.

[863] Yeah.

[864] The political people weren't going to mention it.

[865] They didn't really mention it.

[866] You didn't really hear about it that this was a former cop.

[867] Yeah.

[868] How many times was he potentially caught while he was doing his patrols, meaning his night time patrols, his East Area rapist patrols, and slashed a badge?

[869] Yes, exactly.

[870] You know, was he potentially in thought when he was in Basalia and he apparently?

[871] apparently was a police officer at Exeter, which was about 10 miles or 11 miles from Vesalia, was he involved in any of the investigations?

[872] I mean, these are all the, this is the other shoe that's going to drop in terms of who could have stopped him when.

[873] Yeah.

[874] I'm, I'm interested more in what other crimes he might have convicted and getting answered.

[875] He might have committed, excuse me, and getting answers from those.

[876] But the other thing is going to be like, you know, could we have caught him?

[877] And, you know, was it a good old boys never?

[878] obviously if he was a cop he knew cop lingo he knew names of other people so if somebody pulled him over or if somebody said what are you doing in this neighborhood he could drop names he could drop lingo he could just say i'm doing this or this i am sure that that happened a couple times yeah absolutely no way that it didn't you know he was doing everything he could to survive and that would have been in one of his one of his tricks totally one of the things i noticed mentioned the in reddit of like why it was weird in the beginning is that he he's a little older than what was originally thought everyone was calling him a teenager do you think that there's probably was there a do you think there was a trigger that made him start in his late 20s early 30s which is pretty old to start these things or do you think there's stuff that goes way far back that we're going to find out about him that he was I think we're going to find out about something yeah but not at that scope and obviously he he didn't know that DNA so he was leaving his deposits everywhere you know so um there's going to be there's going to be little things here or there but not at the scope like pre -visalia ransacker yeah yeah why obviously yeah i mean we saw you know he was doing the ransacking and that was you know and he was taking stuff and then he wanted to amp it up yeah and it was all about it's all about power for him and first it was the power of i'm in your house second is the power of i'm in your house and i'm taking your stuff it's the power of i'm in your house and i'm taking your body and then the fourth one was, I'm in your house and I'm going to kill you.

[879] Yeah.

[880] Also, I think it'd be interesting, like, if they're finding or they will find things happening in Auburn, cold cases, cold rape cases, stuff where if he was a police person in Auburn and, like, was there a woman that came forward that was like a police officer raped to me, but I don't know who it was and they just didn't do anything about it.

[881] Like, obviously it's the worst case scenario, but it's that, I just keep thinking of that kind thing where I wonder if he was able to control himself to save it to go into Sacramento or into the East area to do it and then come home and stay safe that way or if he if it's spilled out onto like wherever he lived yeah in Auburn.

[882] Yeah I mean I have a feeling it didn't spill out I mean this is just pure conjecture but what it all is yeah but I think that that there might have been certain ways that he might have made somebody feel on comfortable, but for the most part, no, I mean, he was just like, sort of like an upstanding citizen, and he did his thing, and everybody thought he was a fairly nice guy, but they didn't know him that, you know?

[883] I mean, are we going to see, you know, the fact that they were, they commented so often, and listen, what are you going to do when you're watching, just people bring out boxes from a guy's house?

[884] Are those boxes of all the stuff that he stole from those houses?

[885] Yes.

[886] Oh my God.

[887] Like direct evidence.

[888] Yeah.

[889] Yeah.

[890] Fuck.

[891] That's a question.

[892] Did he have a trophy room?

[893] Of course he did.

[894] Oh, my God.

[895] Of course he did, right?

[896] I don't know.

[897] And we're not talking golf trophies over here and bowling fucking trophies, obviously.

[898] We are talking the trophies he took from his victims.

[899] Jesus.

[900] A China cabinet.

[901] What are you really taking from there?

[902] I know you take a lot of stuff because you're also wondering, you want to, you know, they're going to, you know, doubt every eye and cross every T. So you want to make sure that you're going to cover everything.

[903] And he could, you know, who knows, could have been doing something bad now.

[904] But, you know, what were they taken out of there?

[905] I think that's a good question.

[906] Well, what I always thought was so creepy was the, I mean, and this is just such a mind fuck, the way he would take something from one crime scene and a couple months later leave it at another, which means he was holding on to stuff.

[907] There was a place where he was keeping it.

[908] Yeah.

[909] That's weird.

[910] You know, and there's a lot of weird questions that are going to be out there.

[911] Why'd you, you know, bring the TV into the backyard?

[912] Right.

[913] pieces, you know, and all these things that we've gone round and round about and wondered about the diamond knots.

[914] And there's evidence.

[915] I think I think I saw somebody posted a picture of him in the Navy.

[916] Was that correct?

[917] Yeah.

[918] That's right.

[919] And those knots?

[920] I haven't been on social.

[921] We've just been doing a bunch of stuff here.

[922] So, oh, it's getting real fun on social.

[923] I bet.

[924] So you, are you guys, I mean, I just can't imagine.

[925] So last night, you guys had this.

[926] But we were talking, it was four in the morning when we were talking to you, right?

[927] I did not realize that.

[928] Sorry, sorry.

[929] Yeah, last night we were in, we were in Chicago, we went to Naperville.

[930] Because Gillian Flynn was talking to myself, Patton, and Paul.

[931] Amazing.

[932] About the book.

[933] So cool.

[934] It's, you know, Gillian is from here, and she's the woman that wrote, you know, girl on the train and gone girl and all that stuff.

[935] And then there was, you know, it was kind of close to where she grew up.

[936] Michelle did.

[937] So Michelle's family was there.

[938] We had a great talk about the case.

[939] We said, you know, people like, you really think it's going to be solved?

[940] And we said, yeah, this is going to be solved.

[941] I have no doubt this is going to be solved because of the DNA, you know.

[942] Bottom line is, I don't think Zodiac potentially could be solved.

[943] I wouldn't say that.

[944] I wouldn't put money on it.

[945] But if we have DNA of somebody, it's not, you know, you can't fake that.

[946] So then we were all just pretty white.

[947] We went home back to Chicago and stayed in the hotel.

[948] And for some reason, I woke up to a text, you know, like two in the morning or something or one in the morning.

[949] And I just started from there.

[950] I mean, can you, were, was it like a stomach drop?

[951] Was it an out loud gasp?

[952] Was it like, did you just get cold?

[953] What was that?

[954] What was your reaction in that moment?

[955] Action was, or at this a press conference, I mean, what's that going to be about?

[956] Yeah.

[957] Yeah.

[958] Yeah.

[959] You know, it's always going to be, is this real or not?

[960] Yes.

[961] One of the things that I keep telling people is that once I confirmed it, so my first thing was about confirming it, and that's just my journalism instincts, I want to confirm this thing.

[962] After I confirmed it, and then I'm like, all right, I confirmed it, and I put out some tweets and I told everybody, and I wasn't going to tell Patton yet because Patten was, like, super tired last night, so I was like, all right, I'm not going to wake the little guy up, five, right?

[963] So, but then I barely fly.

[964] So I was sitting there all for it.

[965] I started thinking and questioning my consciousness of whether I was dreaming or not.

[966] I was really wondering whether this was a dream.

[967] And it was like, wait, I was at a, you know, it was weird.

[968] I had the weirdest dream last night.

[969] I was in Chicago.

[970] Shit.

[971] It was in the suburbs.

[972] And then Gillian Flynn was there.

[973] We didn't eat dinner, but they gave us brownies.

[974] And I ate the brownie on the way home.

[975] and I was like going through all this stuff it's like well was this and then I got a call that you know a text message that there's a press conference and I was wondering whether this was really a dream or not and then we were both doing it me and Patton when we were sitting at the airport waiting for the plane out to board and we were both saying the same thing it's like if we wake up and we're back in the hotel yeah this is going to be really what was in those brownies yeah exactly someone dosed you guys I don't think there was anything I think it was actually fudge it was brownie so it's just such a fast it just feels like this you guys being on the book tour like it's so it's such a fast turnaround for the way this kind of like it built and I feel like everyone was prepared for this to go on for so much longer yeah no there was no built to this the it was 12 hours you know yes that's one of the reasons when we were talking about it I was trying to think of what Michelle would feel and you know there would she would be feeling what they'll like to come down right about now.

[976] Yeah.

[977] Where, you know, and we had talked about that is what are you going to do with your, you know, when you finally catch the guy, this was your first.

[978] You'd never forget your first.

[979] This was your obsession.

[980] Yeah.

[981] If you are able to get answering to that, what are you going to do next?

[982] And I wanted that to happen because I wanted her to work on other cases with her.

[983] Yeah.

[984] And I constantly have, in my own investigations, I constantly have 15 to 20 going at the same time because I'm doing street crimes, I'm doing ones that, you know, are a little bit more easier to solve, and they're not, they're not romanticized as much as somebody like this is.

[985] Yeah.

[986] But, you know, I think she would have that sort of come down and just kind of, you know, sit alone in a room and say, like, well, what, you know, what happens now?

[987] I think there would definitely be things like, she would be like, God damn it, he was the Veselia Ransacker.

[988] Yeah, yeah.

[989] She went back and forth on that one, and so did Paul.

[990] And so not because, you know, he had that stocky body.

[991] You know, they would say that he had that cherubic face.

[992] So he obviously, I'm really interested to see what his pictures look like during the Ransacker phase than versus the ear phase because I think he probably lost him weight because they kept on talking about how he had this moon face, this baby fit.

[993] Right.

[994] Yeah.

[995] And then he ended up, you know, with face that was very kind of lean or at least, you know, what people could see of it when we were talking about the year.

[996] Yeah.

[997] it's a real it's a different those because there was there's one picture of him as a cop with a mustache that looks like it's from the late 70s and he looks so different than that navy picture or any of those younger pictures like he does not have that stuff on his face he didn't he doesn't have the width to his face he looks very lanky but it looks like one of the sketch the older sketch of a with a mustache yes dude yeah no i think that's that's probably what happened and obviously he grew the mustache after a while maybe he grew it to kind of hide himself yeah you know but i think i think he lost him weight and what he was doing was strenuous too you know i mean yeah oh yeah he was doing parkour exactly you got to be in shape for that yeah to see to see what he you know turned into you know because that happened to us where you can't let yourself go uh -huh you know the cops were sort of like waiting outside for him saying or is this guy gonna move or what because you know they were trying to collect collect something from him and obviously he wasn't moved so crazy you know what i'd keep picturing like when they were talking at the at the press conference and i understand like the d a mary was kept saying like this is the detective's work and that and whatever but what i like to picture is like michelle was just this bossy lady that kept showing up and being like yeah but i need to write about this so could you guys get it together like she just kept going to places and being like, I need you to prioritize this, we need to, this needs to matter more to people.

[998] And like, so yes, the credit fully goes to those detectives because they were always there and they had to work on it and whatever.

[999] But there is that, like, you know, I don't know.

[1000] I feel like we all know the credit goes to like the fucking mouthy broad that gets in there and goes, you guys seriously, like do something about this.

[1001] No, and the fact that they called him the Golden State Killer, which they wouldn't have called them, if not for Michelle.

[1002] Right.

[1003] That's how they referred to him as.

[1004] And then the, you know, that, they're saying, oh, that, you know, the book didn't have anything to do with it.

[1005] Yeah, the book just came out.

[1006] Right.

[1007] The article, though, came out a long time ago.

[1008] And the article got everybody buzzing in circles and got people like you guys interested in it.

[1009] And it became part of the lore of people would bring up, you know, when people were mentioning certain serial killers, they would bring up this guy.

[1010] And nobody ever talked about this guy before.

[1011] You know, this guy had one Unsolved Mysteries episode.

[1012] Yeah.

[1013] And, you know, it really was very, very low on anybody's radar until she came along and really, really boosted it.

[1014] It's not about the book.

[1015] It really was about her doing, you know, constantly being on, you know, writing about it or TV shows or blogging.

[1016] And then the article coming out.

[1017] And then all these people coming, you know, like her selling her life rights because they thought it was so interesting and all that.

[1018] jazz.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] You know, that's, you know, does the task force happen without her putting that case back into the spotlight, you know?

[1021] And does she, and does she have the, the kind of, uh, like, engine to go forward if it wasn't for also all those other data miners online that were super dedicated and doing the same thing she was doing just not actually going anywhere, but like the people that, like when we were talking about Paul looking through every single, or I think it's in the book, actually it's, you know, when he was the one that had already looked through every yearbook or he'd already, there's just been people who have truly been dedicating themselves to the minutia of this case like a police person would, except for they haven't been paid.

[1022] They've just been doing it out of the passion.

[1023] And the people who the victims are willing to speak to like someone who's super empathetic and wonderful like Michelle because they've been waiting so long for the detectives to give them an answer and they don't want to wait any longer.

[1024] They speak with me. Michelle, and that kind of reinvigorates them into pushing the detectives to keep looking into the cases.

[1025] Yeah.

[1026] Exactly.

[1027] Exactly.

[1028] One of the things that I really hope is that everybody that was working on this case that were data mining and everything, they go find some other ones.

[1029] Yes.

[1030] You know, go use those skills.

[1031] This was your training wheels.

[1032] This was one of your first ones.

[1033] Now go and solve one of the other 200 ,000 unsolved murders that are out there.

[1034] Yeah.

[1035] That's one thing I'm working out writing a book right now and it's about the cases that I've been able to solve as working as the consulting detective consulting digital detective whatever you want to call me but the you know the fact that we are entering an age where we're going to have the most educated retirees we have ever seen in the baby believers these are people that can just then there's also millennials that want to help there's also baby boomers that want to help and what I'm doing is I'm creating sort of a system, and going to do a pilot program somewhere where some police department wants to do it, well, we'll just open it up, you know, screen people, make sure they're good.

[1036] Yep.

[1037] Not pay them.

[1038] They'll have their own computers, and they'll just go in and be able to do this stuff.

[1039] And yes, there is a chain of command.

[1040] Yes, there is.

[1041] They will only get you so far.

[1042] And then the police have to take over.

[1043] But when you're looking for a needle in a haystack, you can get them to that needle and then you just have to prove that that needle is guilty.

[1044] Yes, dude.

[1045] these murders are just piling up yeah it's 5 ,000 new unsolved murders every year and they're just piling on top of each other you might hear about oh this murder okay we just we just cleared 12 you know from from a few different years there's so many that are out there and um you know there are a lot of smart people now that want to help that we should be able to to work with them and have law enforcement so that's one of the big projects that I'm working on right now that's amazing bill that's such a good idea.

[1046] Sign us the fuck up.

[1047] We're signing Stephen up right now.

[1048] I'm really bad at research, but I have a lot of passion and I'm fun to drink coffee with.

[1049] That's all right.

[1050] You guys just bring the coffee in wine and everybody's got to play their part.

[1051] Maybe we do it like Sunday nights.

[1052] It's not a game night.

[1053] It's just prime solving night.

[1054] Sure.

[1055] It's kind of similar to that.

[1056] I mean, the thing that I'm talking about is a little bit more serious than that.

[1057] But yeah, I mean, you're going to see a lot of that.

[1058] I think people want to want to get involved and they're not going to be the sexiest cases you know there's going to be cases that um you know we you know this one in particular was so interesting just because there was so many clues there was almost too many clues yeah and it really became like something that could have been a really intricate board game who's your own adventure or something yeah i think it's also oh just that there's a beautiful aspect to it of like we a lot of times talk about problems in the police, police not talking to each other, you know, all that kind of the zodiac stuff that happened.

[1059] Yeah, when they don't want to share information.

[1060] But we're, it's like real time we're watching as the DNA evidence like develops as all these different new technologies develop.

[1061] There's also the consciousness of, of detectives and these people who are starting to understand how they have to change and they're doing it.

[1062] I think there's part of that that's so hopeful and beautiful, you know, like even just in, in that, um, the, the golden state special that was on ID where they're kind of talking about that, changing their approach so that these things can get solved.

[1063] It's a matter of numbers and it's not like we're getting a bunch, a bunch more detectives.

[1064] So if you're adding 5 ,000 murders every year that are unsolved, you're not adding 5 ,000 new detectives.

[1065] Right.

[1066] If what happens with these detectives is that they might be working on a cold case, they may be working on a case that happened two weeks ago, then they catch another murder, meaning they have another murder that they need to go solve.

[1067] And that other one has to take a back seat.

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] And, you know, the idea of the professional detective has only been around for like 150 years.

[1070] Before, it was, it was, you know, different people that were actually solving these murders, and they weren't necessarily professional detectives.

[1071] Went to Pinkertons?

[1072] Yeah, well, even knowing before that.

[1073] You know, it was even before that there were, you know, police, you know, real police squads that were out there.

[1074] You know, the police were created not to solve crimes.

[1075] They were really created to keep the peace and stop riots and stuff like that.

[1076] Wow.

[1077] So, you know, I think that you're going to see something along those lines in some place.

[1078] And it's going to be like community policing, but it's not going to be, you know, walking the streets and doing guardian angel type stuff.

[1079] It's going to be a little bit more of.

[1080] damn it of that data mining variety and using the skill that you have in your in your neck of the woods it's so cool thank you so much for calling us billy it is amazing to talk to you on a day like this yeah you're welcome guys and uh hello to all the murderinos out there thank you keep in touch please so much i mean if there was one thing that you i mean you guys have such a powerful platform uh to talk to people and you guys are one of the biggest things that are going on at true crime right now and it's great to to see you guys.

[1081] I don't know if you guys know this or not, but I went to see you at Upright Citizen Brigade once.

[1082] And there was like 30 people there, 40 people there.

[1083] Oh, was that the cracked podcast with Jack O 'Brien?

[1084] No, no, no. It was like, you guys were just there.

[1085] I think Margaret Cho was there.

[1086] Oh, that was, um, Jamie Lee.

[1087] Yeah.

[1088] Oh, awesome.

[1089] Wait, did we meet, we met beforehand at the restaurant, though, right?

[1090] I think we did.

[1091] You came and said hi.

[1092] Yes, that's right.

[1093] Yeah.

[1094] So, uh, um, yeah, you know, I know that, you know, there's a lot of people that, you know, are out there that just are learning a lot from your from the stuff that you're talking about they can look into cases what I say is like look into that one hometown case that you've got and just and if you are happen to be a victim or a family of a victim you know squeaky wheel gets the grease that's certainly one of the things that happened here if you see what debbie domingo is doing you know she was constantly calling and trying to get information and if you if you've got a crime that happened a violent crime that happened just keep calling the police don't lose hope awesome amazing thank you so much billy okay we'll talk to you soon talk to you soon bye I guess that's so incredible that was rad yeah what a get that felt like a real news a real news situation I have to say maybe we can close it up but I'm like honored that we get to be a voice in the background of this and like Michelle McNamara as we've I've been we've been such a fan of hers a fan girl of a fan girl crime and like i'm just honored that we get to even talk about this what a yeah what a magical thing that in real time not it's not like 20 years from now where we get back together right talk about that they finally found the guy or they finally figured out who it is it's just like this is shocking it's thrilling and yeah kudos to fucking michelle McNamara and her it like people keep using the phrase dogged persistence but i think there's something it's it's like this righteousness and this like kind of call for justice that i think we all feel and i think most people are good in that way where they don't want other people to suffer like this yeah and that's what's cool it's like all those people at that press conference everybody that's talking about it everybody is just like no more of this shit no more pretending right doesn't matter no more pretending that you you that you know all that all these weird old things are really going by the wayside these old attitudes all that kind of stuff and it's like building a new fucking tomorrow as corny as that sound no i agree and um it is this what was i gonna say oh it's gonna be great um do you want me to say really quickly i was i was when billy called i was just trying to say people in sacramento now who are loving sacramento and want to defend sacramento you don't have too because I get towns change whatever but I also get to have my opinion about this the very short amount of time that I suffered greatly in that town every day I was suffering I was a goth in the summer yeah it sucked shit and I couldn't go anywhere and be happy we're gonna we're it doesn't mean anything about you or your family or your fucking grandparents and we weren't even our we weren't even planning our tour agent wasn't even planning on sending us to Sacramento and we insisted because it's become this running joke well because Sacramento Mariners are like showing up and they're like they're like come here we love it we love you so we love that it's it's been so fun but but you cannot change my mind about 90s sacramento I think they love it oh I know what I wanted to say yes and I love what I love about Reddit about what about this press conference about I'm what I'm sure Michelle would say is that no one is saying I knew it I took credit for this it's because Because I said this, I said that.

[1095] It's this, it's wanted to be solved by so many people, and that's so much bigger than anyone's ego.

[1096] They wanted to be solved for the victims and for the victims' families and friends, and to put an end to this fucking monster and bring them to justice.

[1097] Yeah.

[1098] And so I love that this fight is not for credit or being the one who solves it.

[1099] It's about justice.

[1100] And I know Michelle would be saying something to us along the line.

[1101] of no, no, no, it has nothing to do with my, you know, she would be demuring and she would be rightfully so giving a huge amount of credit to the detectives who have worked on this for years and years and, you know, and wanted just as much to solve this passionately as we did.

[1102] 100%.

[1103] And the way that sheriff was saying at the beginning, I wrote his name down Scott Jones, my party friend Scott Jones, that he was saying in the beginning, when he became the sheriff, the person who was the sheriff before him was like, this.

[1104] case is huge and important and you have to work on it.

[1105] So there are all those people that over the years when they were just trying to go place to place with no technology, with everything was writing everything up by hand and putting it into a file.

[1106] I saw something that was like one page of files from back then takes, you know, three weeks for us to like translate.

[1107] That's so wrong.

[1108] But you know what I mean?

[1109] To put into a computer?

[1110] To put into your computer.

[1111] Like one file takes we have to yeah it just takes forever to to make it maybe it's what I don't know it was great but basically it takes fucking forever and it's tons of work it was all paperwork back then all paperwork and those people suffered the the police who worked on it suffered too yeah like they they're the ones that had to go and and suffer by not catching him and by meeting more victims and there's so much It just is so incredible that there gets to be, at least, it's not closure, but it is this, like, it's next steps.

[1112] Yep.

[1113] It's real next steps.

[1114] It's finally.

[1115] It's fucking finally.

[1116] Fuck, guys.

[1117] Thanks for listening.

[1118] Let us know what you think.

[1119] Yeah.

[1120] This is really cool.

[1121] Yeah.

[1122] I'm thrilled.

[1123] Me too.

[1124] All right.

[1125] Stay sexy.

[1126] Don't get murdered.

[1127] Bye.

[1128] Elvis.

[1129] Do you want a cookie?

[1130] There it is.

[1131] Goodbye.

[1132] Hi.