117 - Reality's Canceled

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Murders in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[17] The podcast, where you know exactly where you are.

[18] So we introduce you in the very beginning.

[19] You're baffled when you hit play and stare at our logo until we tell you where you are.

[20] Do you want to start with Corrections Corner?

[21] Do you want me to start with telling you something crazy that happened?

[22] I will start with saying that I did a tweet about me belching so loudly that people heard me on the street.

[23] Right.

[24] And it was very embarrassing.

[25] And lots of people responded and were like, I knew I was a Karen.

[26] And the irony of that is the way, one of the way Georgia and I became friends, one of the ice breakers from the very beginning was we were at a Thanksgiving dinner at our friend's house, very small party.

[27] We didn't, we, we knew each other from talking once at a party, I believe.

[28] And Georgia, almost the entire party was belching.

[29] And I could not stop laughing.

[30] It was my favorite fucking thing in the world.

[31] And so when that happened and people were like, I'm such a Karen.

[32] I was like, I wonder, George is going to get mad that I just stole her thing.

[33] Yeah, I'm angry that you stole the most embarrassing thing about me. That's so gross that my mom is so ashamed of.

[34] That clearly just indicates that I have some gastrointestinal issues.

[35] I mean, join the club.

[36] I guess we all do.

[37] But I want you to have it.

[38] I want you to have that.

[39] I want you to be known for that instead of me. Okay.

[40] Oh, well, I've clearly moved into that because I made this burp.

[41] I put my hand up to cover my mouth.

[42] I will say that for myself.

[43] Right.

[44] But I think that made it.

[45] There's an echo effect that was created because of my hand cupping.

[46] And so it was like I was yodling a burp across Magnolia Avenue and Burbank.

[47] They're going to start bringing you on stage at Coachella to fucking yodel your burbs.

[48] Fuck the yodeling boy.

[49] Let's get me belching into a microphone.

[50] Right.

[51] Yeah.

[52] What's your?

[53] Belched out the window in the passenger seat in like in Beverly Hills and like angled it out the window.

[54] And next to us at the stoplight, rolled down and the windows rolled down or maybe his car top up because he was so rich uh who i angled it at was the dude from um um american idol who ryan secret yes oh no i vouched right at him and he was like you're going to hollywood and then randy jackson popped up and was like little pitchy little pitchy on that one speaking of pitchy we just wow we just saying stephen Happy birthday.

[55] His birthday was yesterday.

[56] You guys, it's Stephen Ray Morris's 31st birthday.

[57] That's right.

[58] I feel old.

[59] You are.

[60] You're so old.

[61] We celebrated with a I was like, what do we?

[62] We have to get Stephen like a dinosaur cupcake or something.

[63] And then Vince went to the grocery store last night and came back with this Hello Kitty birthday cake in the most like insane box.

[64] It was just so hilariously perfect.

[65] And then we ate it.

[66] I ate it.

[67] My heart is racing right now.

[68] Yeah.

[69] Stephen had two pieces.

[70] I was like, do I'm going to throw this away?

[71] He was like, no, I want another piece.

[72] And he's having coffee.

[73] My theory is that it wasn't ice cream per se.

[74] It was just ice cream like frosting.

[75] Like, it was just an entire frosting cake.

[76] Frozen frosting.

[77] Frozen frosting on the outside.

[78] Yep.

[79] And confetti.

[80] And confetti.

[81] It was pretty great.

[82] It was so amazing.

[83] Happy birthday, Stephen.

[84] Thank you.

[85] Can you tell us what you've learned in the past year?

[86] Ooh.

[87] um pay your parking tickets yes which is i think what you told me last year yes really and so that worked for you this is worked yeah yeah we just pass wisdom like this don't you're saying don't delay do it right away yeah because then it just said it has like anxiety because you just see it sitting in your back seat yeah yeah you already know it's that money's gone but then yeah or you know you're late anyway so you don't pay it and then you realize the first time you knew you were late you weren't late and you could have not had to pay double.

[88] Yeah.

[89] Oh, I've given thousands and thousands of dollars to the city of Los Angeles for parking tickets.

[90] When I lived in San Francisco, I'd get tickets all the time and I would, I would park in the crosswalk in front of our house because I just couldn't find a spot ever.

[91] And then I got, and then I found out that I owed San Francisco $800 in parking tickets.

[92] I, my, my, the, I wish I had a recording of the way my dad was yelling on the phone.

[93] Because in the middle, I was all scared and upset as he's yelling at me. And then I realized, oh, I'm not at home anymore.

[94] This is like, I can just pull the phone away from my ear, put it down, walk around.

[95] I don't have to just listen to him, yell.

[96] You don't have to listen to your parents anymore.

[97] No, even though he was 100 % right.

[98] I was just like, all right, talk to you later.

[99] Go ahead and pay that.

[100] Okay, pay it.

[101] Talk to you later.

[102] I did a fucking rookie thing.

[103] As someone who's lived in Los Angeles for like 20 years, I paid a ton of money in the first like two years to parking tickets because that's what happens.

[104] And then I was like, well, now I got this.

[105] I am L .A. Like, this is my hometown.

[106] in one week and the same spot I got three tickets and the same fucking like Did you not move your car?

[107] No. You just kept It was like next to my cafe that I go work at and I was just so involved in what I was working on that like and also I don't know math so I like forgot that an hour had gone by and not two and yeah but that means you're in the flow that's actually very good when time collapses like that you're in the flow of creativity and all I have to do for that pay sixty eight dollars it's just it's it's it's all akin to going to uh universal studios it's up there okay but you know there's less rides at that cafe but isn't it it's a wild ride in my brain that's right in that creative energy stupid brain i have something to tell you karen something happened that just made me laugh when you guys left after the episode yesterday last week where are we?

[108] See, because time has collapsed.

[109] We're in the flow right there.

[110] All right.

[111] Something happened that's like one of your, I wouldn't call it your biggest fears, but this thing that you are anxious about.

[112] Did you, you didn't have pants and the only pants that were there were too small?

[113] No. To put on?

[114] No, guess another one.

[115] Like a thing that you're always like, is this going to happen?

[116] You fell down in public.

[117] Remember when you fell down?

[118] After we had lunch together, like one of the first, not like one of the first times.

[119] after starting the podcast that we had hung out we had like on the lunch we had just recorded joe de rosa and kurt ronnellers podcast at meldown yeah what's it called and we went across the street oh oh emotional hangs emotional hangs and we left and oh you just ate it I felt so bad I mean I fell in that way where the styrofoam container that had my half of a BLT flew out of my hand and into the middle of sunset and it's this thing I have these trick ankles both of them because I've sprained both my ankles so many times that every once in a while, if I stepped down wrong, especially from ring.

[120] I think there was a little pothole too.

[121] Oh, that's right.

[122] I stepped into a pot hole.

[123] Directly into the tiniest pothole.

[124] And I can't help it laugh when I see that.

[125] And I was like, we're not good enough friends yet for me to laugh at you falling.

[126] How could you not, though?

[127] There's no, that you have to let people laugh if you fall.

[128] If you're a grown adult that falls all the way down, you have to take what comes.

[129] But I also laughed and then I went and got the car and brought it to you.

[130] So like, I'm not a dick.

[131] I'm not like, bye, I'm going to run through.

[132] traffic that would have been amazing if you're like but well anyway great lunch see you later you're on your own on my way out grabbed your your styrofumbility and fucking took it with me you're like oh i love oh you don't want this are you threw it in the street this is for my lunch okay no i all right let me set the same it's none of those fears no no moths box of moths uh -huh what what are you serious i fucking i see you guys left Vince and I sat down We were hanging out watching TV and I was like, why is Doddy, my little kitten, just staring.

[133] They have this box of toys of all their little toys and stuff.

[134] And she's just staring at it, which is weird.

[135] And I eventually get paranoid.

[136] I'm like, why is there like a spider in there?

[137] What's going on?

[138] So I pulled the box out and turn the light on.

[139] And there's a moths in my station in it.

[140] And there are moths crawling all throughout it.

[141] No, no, no. 100%.

[142] I found a fucking box of moths.

[143] And so I put it out on the fucking, on the back.

[144] balcony.

[145] And I was like, no, can't deal with this right now.

[146] And then I went back yesterday thinking, or the other day thinking maybe they had thrown away.

[147] And it's just like, you can see all the moth eggs in it.

[148] There's still moths in it.

[149] So now I have to get them totally new toys and they're all these cool like murderino toys.

[150] Oh, that's right.

[151] There's all these homemade toys.

[152] I can't get rid of them.

[153] Oh, shit.

[154] It's the thing I do to deal with things where I just leave it.

[155] Put it on the balcony and shut the shade.

[156] Yeah.

[157] A hundred percent.

[158] Oh, my God.

[159] That's, no, do you think in any realm?

[160] This supports my theory that I am a psychic.

[161] Yes.

[162] Now, I know it's been about a year and a half since I talked about originally fearing boxes of moths, but maybe I'm a long -term psychic.

[163] Could be.

[164] And for no reason.

[165] It doesn't help at all.

[166] It doesn't help anybody.

[167] It didn't help me. Wasn't a warning.

[168] Just turned into a funny joke.

[169] People have given us great box of moths.

[170] That's right.

[171] Up right over here in the podlock, we have some like joke box of moths.

[172] Gorgeous.

[173] People have, they've handmade moths for us, gorgeous.

[174] Paper moth shay.

[175] paper maybe that's maybe you are psychic to the puns i'm going to make a year and a half later i just need to make a recording of when georgia is talking and while she's talking thinks of a pun the joy that comes into her eyes is so delightful it's kind of like a cartoon where you're like paper mache paper Bramachi.

[176] Okay.

[177] Now do we talk about something fucking awful and heavy?

[178] Yes.

[179] My hometown Burbank.

[180] Yeah.

[181] So I'm on the next door app in my neighborhood.

[182] Which is the talk to your neighbor's app.

[183] Talk to your neighbor's app.

[184] We're having a yard sale.

[185] Somebody's trying to steal my recycling.

[186] My next door up.

[187] You're fucking trash.

[188] For real.

[189] My neighborhood is filled with old, retired, potentially rich people because I live, I live, basically adjacent to a nice neighborhood.

[190] So I get all these.

[191] We get all the bad neighborhood stuff.

[192] We get all the fancy neighborhood stuff.

[193] Literally there's listings like Stranger on the street.

[194] Just anybody walking by there trying to report on Nextdoor.

[195] It is.

[196] Can you write back and be like, calm down?

[197] I mean, I actually watched a guy.

[198] There's a really hilarious writer named Guy Indor Kaiser that I follow on Twitter.

[199] That's also a TV writer that my friends are friends with.

[200] So I kind of know of him.

[201] and I saw him one time on the next door app get into a fight with a guy and I had to DM him on Twitter and just go, just so you know I'm on your side and these people are insane.

[202] They're beyond insane.

[203] So one of the listings was Raccoon out in the day.

[204] There's shit like that.

[205] We're just like you guys need to start going to a community center or take a class.

[206] Or feed the raccoon and make friends with him.

[207] Or feed that raccoon and drop it and get it inside your house.

[208] But the other day on the next door app God bless it.

[209] Up comes an official Burbank police report about three dead bodies that have been found in a car.

[210] Jesus.

[211] And they don't know.

[212] There's a bunch of talk that there's missing people from the Bakersfield area that people are theorizing these might be those missing people.

[213] A family?

[214] It doesn't, it did not say.

[215] It's just the missing individuals from the Bakersfield area is the only way they said it.

[216] Okay.

[217] So maybe they're linked somehow.

[218] Well, that's the theory.

[219] But police are like, it's unproven.

[220] that's not we they don't have the identity identities yet wait at the end did they say wink wink because that's how you know that's how you know they know exactly right talking about um no but it's like i think about a year ago a crime very similar where it was in the morning and a parking person found the burnt out car remember yeah in burbank by the burbank library that's what this reminds me of but it's i don't think it's the same area but it still was seven in the morning and a parking person came and it was a red jeep that didn't park there for like several days what i think is interesting though it was that it was parked in a illegal parking place which means they wanted the car to be found whoever left it there maybe you know what i mean yes the idea though that three dead bodies is just like god it like what happens something you don't let it be a family yeah what the fuck yeah what the fuck so scary that's uh i don't know something i'll definitely come back to you with if there's anything interesting but it's It's like, we talk about this stuff so much and we read about it so much.

[221] And when it's, you know, it's what we always say.

[222] When it happens like near you, you're just like, no way.

[223] This happens other places.

[224] Totally.

[225] Scary.

[226] So scary.

[227] Um, let me change the tune.

[228] Do it, please.

[229] No way to do it and it sucks.

[230] Okay, I have two corrections from Monday's minisode.

[231] The term suck it was not said by Stone Cold Steve Austin.

[232] In fact, Vince laughed at me when I said that.

[233] so I am a terrible wrestling wife who's said by these other people I don't want to screw it up again so I'm not going to say and then also the thing I'm going to be drinking in the UK is not a pint of bitters but a pint of bitter okay bitter singular yes that's it that's good to know but now we know then bitters are the thing I was talking about bitter is the thing you were talking about right right because you can order bitters but that's when you feel like you're burp and want you can order bidders and make all that go away yeah um supposedly by getting i have a question okay that we will find out when we are in london england i believe they and they talk about having tea all the time yeah but i think don't they just mean lunch no tea is like a snack i oh shit karen why are we just doing this right now stephen look up high tea what if we just put it out there to the universe and see who tells us but it's just i'm watching a british show right now where they keep talking about what did you have for tea i think when you i think tea from the books i've read i think tea is you have tea and like a dessert like a what's for tea it's like this dessert it's like a sponge cake or some kind of pudding but not according to this tv show that's why one oh i want to talk about it at the end of the show all right well okay well when we had high tea i think that's different it's like lunch snacks snack that's why i think it's snacks it's not though according to the show well let's We should do it when we're there.

[234] Can I just tell you how excited I am about this thing.

[235] Our European tour?

[236] Yeah.

[237] I'm so, it's ridiculous.

[238] We have to bring different plugs to plug in electrical sockets because they don't have American plugs.

[239] Right.

[240] That's what you're excited about?

[241] No, I mean, that's one of the many differences.

[242] We're going to have very bad jet lag.

[243] Yeah.

[244] I mean.

[245] Steven, can you do me a favor?

[246] There's like three shows that aren't sold out in the UK.

[247] Can you find out which ones those are so we can.

[248] I think it's Oslo.

[249] Oslo, you need to get more people.

[250] Beligno.

[251] Oslo is halfway full and I think we might what we'll do is we'll pull a curtain in halfway through the theater like they do at the improv when the show hasn't sold out.

[252] So it looks like there's more people.

[253] We'll shove everybody up to the front and we'll sit on the edge of the stage.

[254] Come on stage.

[255] We should wrap.

[256] We should definitely do.

[257] We just talk.

[258] Wrapping is talking or performance.

[259] Rapping is talking.

[260] Okay, good.

[261] I don't want to have a rap battle.

[262] We can all play telephone.

[263] That'll be funny.

[264] I mean, we could do crafts.

[265] Crafts.

[266] Stephen, go ahead.

[267] I mean, right now, the only ones that are, like, not basically sold out are Oslo, Norway, and Glasgow.

[268] Okay, great.

[269] What the fuck, Glasgow?

[270] I lived there.

[271] You guys need to represent Karen.

[272] I live there with you into the year 2000.

[273] Go represent your friend, Karen.

[274] I believe it was 2000, perhaps 2001.

[275] I was on your TV for a little while.

[276] Come on.

[277] I've bought your cookies at Marks and Spencer.

[278] I've shopped at your malls.

[279] I got my hair dyed like you all do.

[280] God damn, they love a hair salon in Glasgow.

[281] Scotland.

[282] Really?

[283] Every block has a different hair salon on it, and every woman in Glasgow had the most awesome, modern, cool, colored hair.

[284] I'm doing it.

[285] Give me a blowout.

[286] Okay, great.

[287] Oh, and we just want to say...

[288] Oh, yeah, Jesus Christ.

[289] We just want to say this about all this ticket drama.

[290] Our tickets, our live show tickets for our really exciting fall tour just got announced on Monday.

[291] It's been a crazy couple weeks with a fan cult starting to numeric it's really exciting but with new shit comes new shit uh yes so thank you for your patience we know that there was a lot of a lot of feelings happening we were there with you front and center excitement adventure around every turn just so you know we're now operating in a world where no one understands how big this is except for uh when things like this happen.

[292] So basically all they can do is adjust and fix as we go.

[293] And so thank you for your patience as that happens.

[294] People that are trying to send a message saying that we intentionally skip the Midwest.

[295] Yeah.

[296] I go ahead and relax that.

[297] Ask the people in Ohio.

[298] We were just there having great shows with them.

[299] There's no skipping intentionally of anything.

[300] We're just doing the tour that they're setting up for us.

[301] It's all planned by other people than us.

[302] Everyone is trying to be like, I know it's Idaho that they won't come to.

[303] I know it's the city that Georgia doesn't want to come to this state.

[304] We've already been there.

[305] It's been.

[306] We've done it.

[307] We've been there.

[308] So it's just gone and off the table.

[309] Yep.

[310] So it's not your city, state, wherever.

[311] It's not.

[312] It's already been taken care of entirely.

[313] That's right.

[314] But it's going to be super fun.

[315] And it's, we, all we do is shows.

[316] So nothing is a final chapter.

[317] Just remember that, please.

[318] Yeah, we love doing shows.

[319] So we're going to keep doing it.

[320] Hey, this is exciting.

[321] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[322] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[323] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[324] Who killed Saz?

[325] And were they really after Charles?

[326] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[327] This season, murder hits close to home.

[328] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[329] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[330] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arrive.

[331] who knows what'll happen once the cameras start to roll.

[332] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[333] Only Martyrs in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[334] Goodbye.

[335] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[336] Absolutely.

[337] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[338] Exactly.

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[341] That's right.

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[348] Connect with customers in line and online.

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[350] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[351] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

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[353] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[354] Goodbye.

[355] All right.

[356] And with that, who went first last week, me?

[357] I did.

[358] you did yeah because i was like i want to go first right well and again i still don't like i feel like we we never got a confirmation on if you did jesse palmery in boston we did i did someone actually shut up somebody sent somebody sent a tweet i should i should have written her name down i'm getting better at this but i didn't do it this time what she sent a tweet that said yeah you did jesse pomorri's second show late show glad we mean so much it was something really funny like a real sassy Boston response that was like, yeah, late show, thanks for the love from the late show or something.

[359] It was really funny.

[360] But it doesn't matter because it honestly, we've done so many of these that it really felt new to me. If you don't remember, if Stephen doesn't remember, if I don't remember, if Wikipedia doesn't mention it, it never fucking happened.

[361] Well, and that means that we can just keep on every like two years.

[362] We'll just cycle through the same stories.

[363] Perfect.

[364] But we'll switch off.

[365] But we'll, yeah.

[366] Oh, also there was people that were saying, You said something was in some neighborhood and it wasn't.

[367] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[368] I remember that part.

[369] I mean, that's part for the course.

[370] I feel like if we didn't say stuff, do stuff like that, nobody would have any reason to interact.

[371] That's right.

[372] And then we would be, we'd all be so alone and isolated.

[373] The secret is sometimes we'd be on purpose just so you guys will pay attention to us.

[374] We plant them.

[375] They're called Easter, Easter egg mistakes.

[376] They're called Passover mistakes.

[377] Passover egg mistakes.

[378] Oh, for equality, for Jewish equality?

[379] Okay.

[380] I hear that.

[381] They're Pesachach.

[382] mistakes.

[383] Face off mistakes.

[384] Let me think of a pun.

[385] No, it's not there.

[386] It really pays off.

[387] Pace off.

[388] Did that work?

[389] Karen.

[390] Did you even understand what I meant?

[391] Yes, it pays off.

[392] That was beautiful.

[393] You were slowly turning me to the pun cult.

[394] Oh, that was another, somebody else sent a message that was like, and because Karen loved puns and my head almost exploded.

[395] I was like, now we're just blending into the same person.

[396] Well, listen, we've, we've been doing a lot of things lately, and we've been busy.

[397] And you know what that means when I've been busy and we come to do one of our episodes.

[398] I survived.

[399] I survived.

[400] Yay.

[401] All right.

[402] And this one, I have to thank.

[403] And I'm saying your full name because it's on your Twitter feed.

[404] So I'm not thinking that you have a lot of shame about it.

[405] There's nothing.

[406] There's she shameful about her name?

[407] I'm just saying I want to say her whole name because it's what her Twitter name is.

[408] And Charlotte White.

[409] Okay.

[410] And she tweeted me the other day.

[411] She tweeted me a little video.

[412] And she was like, what about this fucking awesome moment from I survived?

[413] I watched it?

[414] Did you watch it?

[415] And I was like, what is that episode?

[416] Okay.

[417] So she reminded me, and I got real mad at myself for not, because this is one of those ones.

[418] And I think maybe I hadn't done it, because this is another fetus snatching story, just like Sarah Brady's.

[419] They just keep doing that.

[420] It's so crazy.

[421] But this one, I think this one might be crazier.

[422] And it's also really fucking hard to listen to.

[423] So anybody that's squeamish, I will warn you before I say bad things in this one, because there's been times when I haven't done that, people get a little bit upset.

[424] I think that's a really good idea.

[425] Yes, because this one's rough.

[426] And what's incredible, so this is Tika's story.

[427] Okay.

[428] This is me basically copying down her, I survive story word for work.

[429] I feel like you've given I survive so much fucking play that they would be like, yeah, go ahead.

[430] use the clip.

[431] I mean, one would like to think that, but lawyers aren't like that.

[432] Those fucking copyright lawyers, don't give a fuck.

[433] Okay, fine, fine, fine.

[434] So, Charlotte sends a clip.

[435] And it's Tika in the middle of telling the most gruesome thing, shitting on Michael Jackson.

[436] And it's so funny.

[437] And the way she does it is so funny.

[438] And I was like, oh my God, I love that one.

[439] And I responded to Charlotte.

[440] And I was like, oh my God, I love that one.

[441] She's amazing.

[442] Whatever.

[443] And so.

[444] then I was like got to tell her story can we put the clip on like uh on socials probably right we'll just we'll just retweet Charlotte white and then I read her home address Charlotte white I'm gonna say it 19 more times okay she's at call me Charlie 16 on Twitter okay if you want to talk to her about this but I do so I always remember Tika and it's the way she tells the story because as she's telling her she's always calm and and almost like zen like calm and she's and we always say this and it's a really lame thing to say but it's just how we feel it's not about we're not talking about beauty per se this woman is fucking gorgeous like and the way luminous yes exactly radiant i think was the word i used she's radiant and she just she talks through the worst fucking thing that could happen to a person with this like she just kind of is rolling her eyes like and if you can believe this this this is what happened.

[445] Just like, holy shit.

[446] All right.

[447] So now I tell you it's we're in Washington, D .C., 2009.

[448] Okay.

[449] And Tika lives on the streets.

[450] The way she describes herself, she says she is rebellious.

[451] She didn't want to live by anybody else's rules.

[452] And because of that, she got herself into what she calls some rough spots.

[453] So after living that way for a while, she decides she needs to get her life together.

[454] And she gets herself into a shelter.

[455] She gets off the streets.

[456] So she's in this shelter and she meets a guy named P. E .J., they fall in love, and they get married.

[457] So when she's seven and a half months pregnant, she starts to get phone calls from an unknown number.

[458] And she finally, when she picks up, it's a woman who says her name's Stephanie.

[459] And Stephanie says she works for a program that gets homeless pregnant women, like clothing, baby supplies, car seats, you know, strollers, whatever.

[460] and she says that they have this big warehouse full of that stuff and that Tika can come down and pick out whatever she wants and and the smile that gets on her face when she's talking about this where she's just like I was thrilled like it's this amazing opportunity and this is also the part of this element of this story that's so fucked up is this is a person who is as down on her luck as she can be totally and this is when she gets fucking victimized it's really fucked up.

[461] So, she's thrilled.

[462] Immediately, her husband, PJ's like, I don't like this.

[463] Stop it.

[464] I'm suspicious.

[465] I don't think this is too good to be true.

[466] And he said, he actually, what he says is don't rush into anything you don't know about where I'm like, yes, PJ.

[467] But Tika's like, I really need this stuff.

[468] And there are programs like that.

[469] Absolutely.

[470] There's plenty of like good, harder people that want exactly that for, you know, want to help in that exactly that way.

[471] So she's like, Yeah, don't be so mistrustful.

[472] Sure.

[473] So she ends up meeting this woman named Stephanie outside of the shelter.

[474] And she says that Stephanie is really nice.

[475] She's very soft -spoken.

[476] She gets into her car.

[477] She starts, Stephanie asks her how everything is.

[478] She starts telling her about her life and how she has turned it around.

[479] She's gotten off the streets and now she's married and now she's going to have this baby and that she's really, really happy.

[480] be.

[481] And it, mm -mm.

[482] So, they, as she's, like, talking and driving, you know, she's just telling her about everything.

[483] They end up at Stephanie's apartment.

[484] So she goes up into Stephanie's apartment with her, and Stephanie brings her into an unfurnished bedroom and sits her down and puts on a movie and then starts doing other stuff.

[485] And so, yeah.

[486] So here's, this is the thing that, like, you don't know any of this extra stuff.

[487] So this is just my opinion.

[488] But this is the kind of thing where if you're in the position of being given something that you really, really want and need very badly, you're not going to question a person that starts changing their story ever so slightly.

[489] Totally, because you still are ingratiated to that person for those things.

[490] You're like, get me to that fucking warehouse.

[491] If you need to stop off at your apartment, so be it.

[492] That happens.

[493] And I'm sure that that woman gave her some storyline of why she needed to be there for a little while.

[494] So it's like, oh, I'll just put on this movie and let me just get these things done.

[495] But that's, I don't know if that's exactly how it happens.

[496] I mean, that makes total sense.

[497] That's how I'm picturing it where you start to rationalize.

[498] It's just like, yeah, this is fine.

[499] So she gets a call from PJ while she's sitting there.

[500] He goes, as she said, he goes, where are you at?

[501] And she's like, I'm fine.

[502] But she goes, because the truth was, I didn't know where I was.

[503] So she doesn't want him to worry.

[504] But his worry is making her begin to worry and begin to realize.

[505] what a mistake it was to kind of lose herself in the conversation and she doesn't she can't say where she is just know what neighborhood she's even in yeah okay so and it gets worse from here so they finish watching that movie Stephanie puts on another movie a movie uh huh so it's just like she finishes an entire movie yes two hours right or maybe 90 minutes if it's a action film but Yeah, then she puts on another one.

[506] And then they start watching that movie.

[507] And as they're watching it, a heavy blanket gets thrown over Tika's head.

[508] And this woman starts beating her in the head.

[509] She hits her like 10 times in the head.

[510] Oh, my God.

[511] So Tika jumps up.

[512] She puts her hands up and she says, all she can see is blood.

[513] So, and then she goes, and when you're in that situation, all you can think is, I got to go.

[514] and so she starts running she gets to the fucking front door and this is like makes me so crazy like when she was telling it but it also reminded me of the other baby snatching story that Sarah Brady told in her episode of I survived that I've already done where she runs to the front door of the woman's apartment building and it's locked and as she tries to get it open the woman catches up with her and grabs her and pulls her back and the same thing in apartment but it's in the apartment where she says she gets to the door there's a chain lock, a dead bolt, and then the bottom lock.

[515] So she can't get all three of them open in time.

[516] This woman catches, Stephanie catches up to her, jumps on her, and this woman is twice her size.

[517] She said she was really big.

[518] And it looks like Tika's pretty petite.

[519] Yeah.

[520] And they start wrestling around on the ground.

[521] She's fighting her off.

[522] And she's seven and a half months pregnant while she's doing this.

[523] And she's seven and a half months pregnant.

[524] So try to remember that throughout.

[525] Okay.

[526] um so while they're fighting and she has a head injury already right she has blood in her eyes from that head injury already um this woman's trying to choke her out um she's teak is fighting back as hard as she can but she can't see and you know the whole thing this woman picks up a fireplace poker yeah so if you don't like if you're squeamish or you might faint and you're driving a car or whatever hit hit the forward 15 seconds button about three times right now.

[527] Oh, no. Because this woman picks up a fireplace poker and hits Tika in the head about 40 times.

[528] What the fuck?

[529] Uh -huh.

[530] So she, at some point during that beating, passes out.

[531] Steven's like, I can't hit 15 forward.

[532] Steve.

[533] Poor Stephen.

[534] Stephen just fell backwards and was like, this is my worst birthday ever.

[535] Sorry.

[536] Sorry.

[537] Oh, Stephen.

[538] Okay.

[539] So she comes to like two minutes later.

[540] Okay.

[541] As she feels the woman pick her up by the ankles and drag her down the hallway toward the kitchen.

[542] Oh, my God.

[543] So kitchen, nothing good happens in the kitchen.

[544] No, not in this scenario.

[545] Then she hears her rattling around in the kitchen, opening drawers and doing stuff.

[546] Then she, the lady kneels down next to her and she feels a sharp pain in her side.

[547] Oh, my God.

[548] And she looks down and she sees the woman's holding a box cutter.

[549] No. Mm -hmm.

[550] Oh, squeamish people.

[551] You're not going to like when I say, she sees the woman holding a box well they've still been fast forwarding past this okay good good i'm not going to worry about you anymore not you the squeamish we have to fucking deal with it that's right you guys have to take this no matter what stephen is holding both his knees in his mouth um okay so blood of course starts pouring out her side oh my god she said there was blood everywhere i fucking bet and the woman goes back into the kitchen this creep me out so bad and starts to pray so she's saying stuff like Lord forgive me Lord I'm a sinner I'm so sorry which is like that's straight out of like a horrible horror movie this is like the shit movie Carrie or something or it's like we need to pray yes like no no you're fucking psycho yeah it's not that doesn't like you you don't praying won't help anything right now with you have a fucking box cutter in your prayer hands God knows you're about to go back to what you were fucking doing and of course she does so Tika can't move.

[552] She can't.

[553] She's lost so much blood.

[554] She doesn't have the energy to do anything.

[555] She's just laying there.

[556] The woman starts cleaning up the blood.

[557] She's just scrubbing, scrubbing, scrubbing, cleaning.

[558] And then she nails down and asks Tika if she can get up.

[559] And Tika says, I don't think so.

[560] So the woman picks Tika up, carries her back to the unfurnished bedroom, and puts her on a mattress on the floor.

[561] And then she takes Tika's cell phone away from her and turns it off.

[562] Oh, no. Yeah.

[563] So eventually, as she's laying there on this mattress on the floor, her bleeding stops.

[564] And she thinks maybe I can talk to her and she'll let me go.

[565] Maybe if I, the thing that most people do, where it's like humanize yourself.

[566] So she starts saying, you know, like, I guess based in the information she had in the conversation on the car right over, she's like, she talked about her kids.

[567] She talked about Stephanie's kids.

[568] She talked about her own kids.

[569] And she basically said to Stephanie, I would never tell on you because I don't believe in breaking families up.

[570] I wouldn't want a person to lose their family.

[571] Stephanie starts pacing in circles and going.

[572] She said she could tell it was working on her because she's pacing and murmuring to herself and freaking out.

[573] And at one point, Stephanie says, I got to get out of this apartment.

[574] Tika's like, oh yeah, really?

[575] Me too.

[576] Then Tika says, and this is another one of those moments.

[577] You're just like, fuck, man. She said, but I know she's not just going to leave me there.

[578] because I've seen her face and I know where she lives.

[579] Shit.

[580] So at this point, she has been held.

[581] She's been battered and bleeding held in this apartment for three nights.

[582] Three nights?

[583] Yeah.

[584] This has continued over like all of these things that she's done and taking her to the room and all that.

[585] I was expecting like one afternoon.

[586] No, no, no. Like it's like the initial beating and men and night.

[587] And she said the first night, she played movies all night and Tika didn't sleep all night.

[588] She just stayed up watching the woman.

[589] Oh my God.

[590] like because she was obviously like just didn't know what was going to happen next um so then the third night Stephanie walks into the bedroom and she's holding a metal bowl full of ice with a rag in it oh no a rags on our shoulder she's got six towels and two box cutters and a knife no no why do people use box cutters it's it's so it's so awful and the rag over her shoulder like your mom did that that's actually my that's my mom at Thanksgiving.

[591] I know.

[592] I'm picturing your mom right now.

[593] Totally.

[594] My mom would be fully dressed to the nines.

[595] And then she would have the dirtiest dish towel on her shoulder because she'd be like pulling stuff out of the oven.

[596] Right.

[597] We call that a shmata.

[598] Oh yeah.

[599] In Yiddish.

[600] A little shmata.

[601] It's just like a gross rag that you used to clean with.

[602] That's funny because in TV that we used to always on the Ellen show, Andy Lassner used to always say, we need a shmata to cover this.

[603] I always thought it meant like a nice tablecloth.

[604] Oh, no. Just like a piece of shit.

[605] Just like a We need to throw something over this.

[606] Throw some rag over there.

[607] Okay, so, nightmare time.

[608] Anyone coming at you with a metal bowl full of ice?

[609] Run the fuck.

[610] If you can run.

[611] Bad intentions.

[612] There's nothing good at the end of that.

[613] So then, and this is very upsetting, and it also is something that was featured, did you ever, did you watch the assassination of Johnny Versace?

[614] No, I haven't watched it yet.

[615] It's good.

[616] Yeah.

[617] It's really good.

[618] I hadn't watched it because, because of course, there was online.

[619] we're not sure if we like it or not which I always then go oh forget it and then someone was like what are you crazy it's the best and you will love it and I did and it's brilliant but there's one part where he has a victim and this is what happened to Tika Stephanie wrapped her tape in her head in duct tape what so she is her eyes are covered her whole head is covered she can barely breathe through her nose I don't like it everything's covered it's the worst it's so claustrophobic it's like such a psychotic move to sue to someone yeah it's insane and it's incredibly dehumanizing it's like this person that I'm attacking isn't a person right it's crazy and it's something that uh that um Andrew Kahnana did as well wow so not a good sign if you're doing what Andrew Kahnan does no I'm not on your side immediate fail uh okay so now it's going to get worse squeamish people if you if you suddenly thought that you were somehow in a landing you aren't.

[620] I did.

[621] I'm not.

[622] No, go back to being on your toes.

[623] So Tika, this is how she explains it on the show.

[624] She just says, she wraps her head and duct tape, and then she just starts cutting.

[625] So she tossed, Stephanie, starts at the top of Tika's pelvic area and just starts cutting upward, no, no, no, no, fast forward, fast forward.

[626] This is real life.

[627] But she doesn't have the correct tools.

[628] It's not like a surgical cut.

[629] She's, she's using fucking kitchen knives and box cutters.

[630] Who knows how deep to go?

[631] Who knows how?

[632] I mean, like, how do you know?

[633] This woman knows nothing.

[634] And Tika, this, as she describes it, it's so fucking awful.

[635] And she's just like, I could feel every cut.

[636] She felt every single thing this woman did.

[637] And she said she was having, she started to have a hard time breaking Tika skin.

[638] All right.

[639] I'm sweating.

[640] Yeah.

[641] No, it's bad.

[642] It's super bad.

[643] Okay.

[644] So she starts picking at it.

[645] Then, she opens the skin and she's cutting through muscle it's like and and she's just laying there feeling it now this is the part that got tweeted she's saying this shit on i survive yes she's telling this story and they're like leaving all that stuff in well it's what fucking happened to her and it's what she lived through she gets to tell it so but but this is the best part she goes this whole time this is happening to me she's playing the michael jackson movie this is it oh my and she's going back to the movie and rewinding it.

[646] If it gets to like the talking head documentary part, she'll rewind it back to the song performance part.

[647] And she said she's blasting the music and just playing the songs over and over.

[648] What's Michael Jackson?

[649] And she said, I'm laying there cut open.

[650] Even I'm thinking, why is she playing this over and over?

[651] And then she goes, because I hate Michael Jackson anyway.

[652] And that's, that's the clip that got sent.

[653] I saw.

[654] I did not realize how horrifying.

[655] that quote was, surrounded by what was happening.

[656] Yep.

[657] In the middle of that.

[658] And also, that's that thing where, and I've said this a million times about I survived, that's that thing about the women or men that are on that show.

[659] When they tell these stories, they've been through it already.

[660] And it's this proof that you can go through fucking anything and remain resilient and strong and be able to tell your own story.

[661] It's what makes me cry every time.

[662] And she's like laughing in the middle of it going.

[663] but she said that was the moment where she saw the big picture of what was happening she said it blew my mind like how insane this like how insane this is for her so so anyway it's just so crazy she shits on michael jackson all right and then she says it like anyway like i don't want to get into that right like i know everyone's going to hate me for this yeah i know that's an unpopular opinion right we'll talk about it later you can have what you can hate whoever you want forever or ever so So when she, so, of course, eventually she, here she passes out.

[664] But even then, what a, like, the idea that she was awake for that, having those thoughts.

[665] Like, she's a fucking warrior.

[666] It's crazy.

[667] So when she wakes up, she's on the bed and Stephanie's laying in a fetal position on the floor in front of the doorway in the bedroom.

[668] Oh, my.

[669] So she realizes, Tika realizes, she tries to roll over.

[670] like she's like this might be my chance to get out of here so she tries to roll over and when she does the metal bowl is still sitting on the mattress with her her wedding ring hits the bowl and makes a ringing sound oh no and she freezes but stephanie does not wake up oh my god so she says thanks to herself and praise to god if if i can just stand up i'll get out of here so she pushes her fucking self up and she says she said she asked god to give her strength from somewhere to just get her is in standing position and she fucking does it.

[671] Holy shit.

[672] She starts sneaking across the room she steps over Stephanie Oh my God, oh my God.

[673] Blood drips onto Stephanie.

[674] She freezes thinking Stephanie's going to wake up and grab her but she doesn't.

[675] So then she steps the second foot over and starts going up the hallway.

[676] Now the squeamish people who thought things were bad before.

[677] Oh no, it's not over.

[678] It's going to get worse for a second.

[679] and it's very bad as she's going up the hallway she's leaning on one wall getting herself up the hallway halfway up the hallway the contents of her torso fall out of her oh my god oh my god oh my god Karen yeah oh my god she picks up no she picks it up and she keeps going what the fuck yes she fucking gets to that front door again opens all three locks and gets out of the fucking apartment.

[680] Uh -huh.

[681] It's the worst.

[682] It's the worst.

[683] She starts yelling for help.

[684] She starts knocking on apartment doors.

[685] Nobody comes.

[686] Uh -huh.

[687] She makes it down the stairs and at the bottom of the staircase, she passes out.

[688] Uh -huh.

[689] Fucking Stephanie comes out the door, sees her down at the bottom of the stairs, makes her way down, tries to scoop her arms underneath.

[690] Tika's arms to pull her back up the stairs and Tika starts fucking fighting.

[691] She said she bit her fingers.

[692] She fought.

[693] She screamed for help.

[694] Now a guy fucking finally comes down from the third floor and he's like what's going on and fucking Stephanie and her nice littlety pretty voice goes, she's delusional and I'm just trying to help her and she's fighting against me. Right.

[695] She's covered in blood and dying.

[696] Tika and she says and she keeps talking over me but Tika looks at the man and goes help me she's trying to kill me then she realizes the man isn't reacting to the situation because she's wearing a navy blue shirt and it's not showing the blood and the shit that's going on under her shirt so she as she's looking him she pulls her shirt up and she said the man yelled i'm calling the cops and ran back upstairs yep and so with that Stephanie looked at her as and this is the way teakas says it in the show she says she said she looked me as if she was saying, I should have killed you.

[697] And then she ran away.

[698] So now she's just bleeding out on the stairs.

[699] And the EMTs and the firemen come.

[700] She's got somebody comes and leans down next to her and goes, ma 'am, are you hurt?

[701] Because she has this fucking shirt on that is making everything much more subtle than it is.

[702] And she says, yes, she's answering.

[703] Yes, I've been beaten and I've been cut and I need help and then she pulls her shirt up and this this is Washington D .C. I'm sure it wasn't this guy's first day on the job.

[704] She said he looked like he was going to throw up right there.

[705] She's rushed into surgery.

[706] She has emergency surgery.

[707] She wakes up from the surgery as we know because again it's called I survived.

[708] P .J. is sitting there by her bedside.

[709] Oh, PJ.

[710] PJ's there.

[711] The first thing she says is is the baby alive.

[712] A nurse walks in.

[713] to come and check on her, and when she asked the nurse, is her baby alive?

[714] The nurse says, you gave birth to an eight -pound, two -ounce baby girl.

[715] So apparently, the baby was balled up way at the top of the womb.

[716] I don't know if that was like a reaction, like a chemical reaction pulled her upward, or if that's just how she was sitting in her stomach.

[717] But basically, they couldn't get to her.

[718] Oh, also, I just remembered a part that I will not say, but if you think you heard the worst part, you didn't.

[719] There was way fucking worse shit.

[720] I bet you'll tell me after we record.

[721] No, I'm mad at you because I read it.

[722] I read it and I'm not going to tell you.

[723] I didn't do anything.

[724] No, I know.

[725] So then in the show, she says, I told them I'm going to name her miracle because.

[726] I was going to guess miracle.

[727] Were you really?

[728] Yes.

[729] She says, I'm going to name her miracle because I survived and she survived.

[730] and fucking you have to look up I mean we'll we'll post a picture of miracle she's got a fucking pacifier in her mouth that says I heart mommy and she is this chubby she she looks like a picture of a baby eight pounds at fucking seven and a half months is a big baby that's a big fucking baby and she she looks like a she looks up like one of those babies in a target ad you know those ones they just sit them by themselves and you're like it's just this fully formed baby that's gorgeous that's what that's what miracle sky looked like her name.

[731] Okay.

[732] Tika's attacker's real name is Veronica De Ramos, I guess.

[733] She had, she called the cops on herself and they came and picked her up.

[734] She pled guilty to assault and she's sentenced to 25 years in jail.

[735] That's it.

[736] That's attempted murder.

[737] Yeah.

[738] Well, I guess they couldn't prove attempted murder because there was all these other stories because Veronica tried to tell them that she, she offered Tika five grand for her baby.

[739] And she basically seeded all this doubt.

[740] Yeah.

[741] Which is so fucked up because it's like, if that was the deal, first of all, you would not take five grand.

[742] And secondly, you'd be like, it's a baby.

[743] We should be in like the five digit area.

[744] But on top of that, you'd fucking have the baby at nine months in a hospital.

[745] Right.

[746] You fucking, all you assholes.

[747] Okay.

[748] So, so mad.

[749] On Monday, January 4th, 2010.

[750] 29 -year -old Tika Adams, which 29, I tell you what, and it's, she, if you told me she was 17, I would have believed you.

[751] She's, anyway, so jealous.

[752] She faces her attacker in court.

[753] She goes to the preliminary trial, and fucking, when that woman is brought into the courtroom, she looks her in the eye.

[754] She brings, she brings miracle to the preliminary trial.

[755] They're sitting there, and then she fucking mad dogs her as she comes.

[756] Apparently, it's very hard, and she was really shaken, obviously.

[757] she made a full physical recovery though which i cannot believe it's amazing it's amazing they must have had insane amazing doctors totally like at whatever that hospital she went to but totally but of course her emotional recovery took much longer yeah because that's fucking insane yeah um but uh she brought oh i just had this part of the news so i read an article about how about that afterwards she brought miracle was um dressed in a pink outfit with matching mittens, booties, and a hat.

[758] Aww.

[759] And so Tiga didn't have to testify against that woman.

[760] It was just to, they were just figuring out if there was enough evidence to bring it all to trial.

[761] Right.

[762] And in the, at the time, public defender Kim Robinson tried to argue that the attempted first -degree murder charge that they tried to bring against her wouldn't hold up because there was no evidence that Duramus intended to kill Tika.

[763] I mean, come on.

[764] Two box gutters?

[765] What the fuck?

[766] Yeah, from the blood loss alone, she would have died.

[767] I mean, nothing about it is saying she didn't want her dead.

[768] Luckily, Prince George County, District Judge Thurman H. Rhodes disagreed, found sufficient probable cause for all charges, and she ended up, Veronica ended up going to jail.

[769] And her, and Tika his father, Gregory Burnett, was also there.

[770] And he told reporters, Tika is my youngest daughter.

[771] So I felt like she was trying to take my baby.

[772] Which is, I mean, let's all cry for 95 fucking different reasons.

[773] But of course, at the end of, I survived, as we all know, they make you say why you think you survived.

[774] That's like the speech everyone gives.

[775] And this is what Tika said.

[776] I survived because I was coming to a point in my life where I started to love myself and respect myself and cherish life.

[777] And I survive because of God and my support system.

[778] I know a lot of people love me and I know that God loves me. And like they say, God looks after babies and fools and I had a baby and I was a fool.

[779] Oh my God.

[780] And then she goes, yep.

[781] And is she crying when she says all this?

[782] I can't, she doesn't really cry that much in this.

[783] I cried the whole fucking time.

[784] I'm crying right now.

[785] And when she gives the speech at the end, she just says that she's been through everything.

[786] Yeah.

[787] It's like she's been through everything.

[788] And now here she is wearing this fucking rad blue shirt, looking gorgeous.

[789] It's so crazy.

[790] That's fucking gnarly.

[791] And the last, the very last card that comes up says Tika and her family, now live in an apartment in Washington, D .C. Oh, good.

[792] Come on.

[793] And that is T. T. Kika Adams' story of survival that I love.

[794] God bless.

[795] Once again, Charlotte White, you made it happen.

[796] You gave me the idea.

[797] Thank you.

[798] That was great.

[799] All right.

[800] Yes.

[801] My turn.

[802] Do it.

[803] Here we go.

[804] Roll up those sleeves like a member of a gang from the outsiders and really give me this story.

[805] You're just saying that because I'm wearing overall shorts for some reason.

[806] What is it war with me?

[807] George is wearing overall shorts like the most precious little kindergartner I've ever seen.

[808] Here's the problem.

[809] I saw some Instagram.

[810] fashion influencers wearing these and I was like they look so cute and now I got them and I'm like oh no I am not that are you having influencer envy I think I am well I'd like to say oh I think it's going to be roughly five words to you what compare and despair that's three words okay compare and despair okay don't compare yourself to other people because then you will despair I'm like I'm doing that.

[811] No, no, no. Don't compare or you'll despair.

[812] Okay, there we go.

[813] I think they tried to get it down as short as possible.

[814] You know, I'm not comparing.

[815] I just also don't think these look good on me. You know what I mean?

[816] Like specifically me. I'm fine with it.

[817] I've only seen you sitting down in them.

[818] I need to see you mingle around in a party.

[819] Yeah.

[820] That's a different level, Georgia.

[821] Yeah.

[822] This is, you've got fucking bangs back, pig tails, no makeup with my sleeves rolled up.

[823] All right, let me do this.

[824] I'm wearing a shirt that I have worn, I wore it in the video.

[825] we posted for the fans.

[826] I've worn it pretty much every day since that video was made.

[827] It's covered in dog hair.

[828] I don't owe anybody anything.

[829] Listen, I'm going to, five words.

[830] If it's not broken, why do you need to change it?

[831] It's fine.

[832] Everything's fine.

[833] Just like give it a quick lint roll, maybe throw in the dryer and everything's fine.

[834] Four, five.

[835] Yes.

[836] Nice.

[837] Let's make it.

[838] That's the new shirt that you have to wear every day.

[839] Says that on it.

[840] Yes.

[841] And we will print the shirt and there will be a dog hair on the print of the shirt so you'll never be able to lint roll it off printed into the ink yes cat and dog cat each one of our pets will contribute a hair yeah to the printing of the shirt George can't wait to donate all of her hair and some of her fingernails we're going to shave all our pets let's do that we're going to have a video listening to join the fan cult because there's going to be a video of us shaving our pets oh you're going to love it it's going to be glorious um anywho anyhow let's do this okay all right this murder or collection of murders okay has a very chilling name you know this one it's the west mesa bone collector oh fuck yep i know of it but i'm confusing it with all those bodies and Juarez like i'm thinking of the southwest and skeleton and the long island serial killer too right like the collection of bodies yes that kind of thing all right all right All right, well, I'm just going to do this time the West Mesa serial killer.

[842] No, you have to do all the cases I mentioned.

[843] Or this is not real.

[844] Buckle up, everyone.

[845] I'm doing all of them.

[846] Or this isn't real.

[847] Or this is a different plane of existence.

[848] Or realities cancel.

[849] Reality is canceled.

[850] Next, next shirt.

[851] All right.

[852] Mid 2005, Karen, Detective Ida Lopez is the only missing person's detective for Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is the largest city.

[853] uh in new mexico with about half a million people in albuquerque the rate of violent crime is more than double the national average oh shit i didn't know that yeah there's a lot of it isn't albuquerque like where um like better call sol takes place and stuff and even before that breaking bad oh for real yeah oh yeah breaking bad is like breaking bad really brought albuquerque to the four it really did it's a fucking excellent it's crazy show it's so good but it does yeah but there's some shit going down in There's shit going down, like, balanced with a kind of suburban normal life.

[854] It's like a really, it seemed like a really weird city in that it's some really horrible, dangerous, scary shit going on.

[855] Right outside the development of the housing development.

[856] People trying to raise, like, you know, any city, but doublesies in this one.

[857] But I wonder if that's changed since 2005.

[858] I bet it has, and I hope people tell us.

[859] Stephen will give us a birthday report about Albuquerque's current crime right after.

[860] this murder we need you to dress up like albuquerque this is going to be like a show and tell for school can i just sorry but can i just tell you this really are you going to tell me about how the one country that was left when you had to do your presentation in elementary school was iceland iceland so you don't need to hear that again no when my when my sister and nora were just visiting me um there was we were at norah's your 10 year old niece just so everyone knows yep and uh we were at wood ranch grill and the kids menu had a had a quiz of testing you on state capitals and my sister and i couldn't stop laughing because in sixth grade when my sister was in sixth grade she had to get tested on state capitals so she on our family's brand new stereo where she plugged in a microphone that came with the kit oh my god the first podcast ever made exactly and it's a cassette tape that my sister recorded and talked into this into this microphone where she recited every state alphabetically and it's state capital and then listen to the tape.

[861] So both of us know state capitals.

[862] That's brilliant.

[863] Yeah.

[864] That's how I learned too.

[865] It's just repetition.

[866] Yeah.

[867] Did you record it like that and listen to yourself?

[868] I don't think we had those capabilities in the hard stark household.

[869] We were pretty high -end.

[870] You were pretty rich, Karen.

[871] It's what you're bragging about.

[872] Incredibly rich.

[873] If you leave today's podcast with anything, please know that we were definitely the one person.

[874] The Kilgariffs were moneyed.

[875] Not in the least.

[876] But we're laughing and then Nora starts testing us on state capitals and my sister knew all of them and I I was making up cities and I was like wait I was just there I looked at the capital building like have no recall whatsoever you seizure that away a long time ago thank you I was going to say drink that away but then I was like that's not as nice something she can't control like the seizures is nicer thank you it's like not an accusation it's more of like poor you you lost all your state capitals when those seizures is yeah and you know what in solidarity I did the same thing with you.

[877] I just lost them all.

[878] You induced some seizures in yourself?

[879] No, no. I just don't know the state capitals.

[880] That's friendship.

[881] I know.

[882] Thank you.

[883] You're welcome.

[884] Okay, bye.

[885] Bye.

[886] Uh, bup, up, up.

[887] Okay.

[888] Let's go back to you just started.

[889] I'm sorry.

[890] No, it's okay.

[891] Because it's going to get dark.

[892] Not as violent, but dark.

[893] All right.

[894] A couple weeks.

[895] Okay.

[896] So, Detective Ida Lopez, this badass woman, she, a couple weeks after being assigned to the missing persons department, the only person in missing department.

[897] after, which is crazy.

[898] I know.

[899] After having been in Vice and a patrol officer for years, she noticed that women with similar backgrounds had been vanishing from Albuquerque.

[900] All women were, all the women were in their 20s and 30s with similar looks and arrest records for sex work and drugs.

[901] And they'd all vanished without word to their families, all of them.

[902] After a couple months of compiling a list, there were five missing women with similar profiles.

[903] And they were all known to hang out in a fucking, like, in Albuquerque, which has, as I said, violent crime more than double the national average, this part of Albuquerque, that's the most dangerous part, called the war zone.

[904] Oh, no. So they were all known to hang out there.

[905] No. I know.

[906] What hindered her research was that some had already been missing for over a year due to their transient lifestyles.

[907] So by the time of their parents and families reported them missing, who were really the only people who would report them missing they had been used to not seeing them for weeks and months and so didn't know how long they had been gone for right plus uh since they had no regular schedules it was hard to track down when and where they had last been seen and they also supported their drug habit with sex work uh off of the street so they would come into contact regularly with strangers that couldn't be like tracked down and questioned and you know that sort of thing so when Ida, who's this wonderful woman who doesn't, you know, isn't biased by the fact that they are sex workers, she's like ready to look into this.

[908] She hits the street to find out if there were any rumors of the women's whereabouts.

[909] And when she does this, she hears a rumor that the girls, some of the girls had been killed and were buried on the West Mesa.

[910] Like this is a rumor going around.

[911] And the West Mesa is a vast desert just on the outskirts of the city.

[912] So Detective Lopez didn't have much more to go on, but just in case, she did collect DNA and dental records from the women's families just in case, which, of course, scared the shit out of the families.

[913] Yeah, I bet.

[914] Let's see, but it wasn't really a huge story.

[915] As it never is because it's sex workers and people that, quote, unquote, have high -risk lifestyles.

[916] Exactly.

[917] And so nobody but Detective Lopez and the families of the missing girls were really concerned about the disappearances of by 2007, what had become more than a dozen women on her list.

[918] I think it's like 16.

[919] It's hard to find an exact number, but it's around 16 women on her list of potentially related cases of missing women in the city between 2001 and 2006.

[920] So she's the only person who had noticed a pattern, put them together, and is kind of doing whatever she can to investigate it.

[921] Okay.

[922] So that was 2007.

[923] All right.

[924] Then in early February 2009, the case breaks wide fucking open when a woman named Christine Ross, she's walking her dog named Ruka.

[925] That's her dog's name.

[926] They're near their new build house on the outskirts of Albuquerque in the area known as West Mesa.

[927] So Christine likes to take Ruka to an area that was once meant for new housing but had been abandoned during the 2008 economy crash, which we all know about.

[928] So all of.

[929] these fucking do we all know so all these no we do mortgages all this fucking shit went bust all this new construction stopped being built because everyone was like the housing market's going to be huge and then no everything is wrong let's not blame the banks let's fucking make poor regular normal people who couldn't afford the mortgages they shouldn't have been given in the fucking first place all a scam it's all a scam everything's a scam don't watch adam mackay's movie what's it fucking called?

[930] Oh, damn it, Steven.

[931] Look it up.

[932] Everything's a scam.

[933] Don't buy into it.

[934] The end.

[935] The big short.

[936] Is that what it's called?

[937] Will you double check me?

[938] It's such a good movie.

[939] It's about that exact thing where 10 years ago, we were living in the craziest world.

[940] Isn't that crazy 10 years ago?

[941] Yeah.

[942] Well, more, right?

[943] Because if it was 2007 or 8, 2008, when the bus happens.

[944] Oh, 10 years ago.

[945] Exactly.

[946] Yeah, this is the big short.

[947] Yeah, watch the big short by Adam McKay.

[948] It's amazing.

[949] Okay, I'm going to watch it.

[950] all right everything's a fucking scam it's all the lie the american dream etc anyways uh da da da da okay so she liked to go over to this area where the uh where the housing development had never started had been abandoned because of the crash and she would it's now a death desolate swath of land my words obviously your word not a cut and paste word um um um um and she'd let ruka off his leash to run around and the desert hard desert sand right So that day, and it's like tumbleweedy, you know, we can imagine it.

[951] Cow skull.

[952] Cow skull with a skull in its head.

[953] Maybe a tiny bit of treasure sticking out of the sand.

[954] Oh, no, shit.

[955] Sorry, I'm going to stop talking.

[956] No, because you're not wrong.

[957] Oh, no. That day, Christine noticed Ruka digging, and when she approached him, she realized he was trying to uncover something out of the sand.

[958] And it looked like a bone.

[959] But she said it didn't look like an animal bone.

[960] So concerned, she took a photo of it and sent it to none other than her own sister, who was a nurse.

[961] And her nurse sister was like, yeah, dude, that's a femur called a fucking cops.

[962] Fuck.

[963] Yeah.

[964] So the detect has arrived.

[965] They confirmed that the bone was human and they begin to process what would become the largest crime scene in Albuquerque history.

[966] Oh, shit.

[967] This is partly because when construction had started for the housing development, the land, had been upturned and disturbed so they were preparing the land for the housing development right so because of this a lot of the bones had been broken and scattered which is one of the reasons it became a large crime scene but also because by the time the detectives were finished processing the crime scene two and a half months later 206 bones of 11 female bodies and one unborn child had been found buried at the site 11 yeah 12 to all together.

[968] Yeah.

[969] Fuck.

[970] Okay.

[971] So as the digging is underway and the media is obviously fucking losing their shit over this, the bones begin to be identified.

[972] And this is the order they're identified in.

[973] The first to be identified is Victoria Chavez, who was 26.

[974] She was the first woman to be identified.

[975] Just said that.

[976] Victoria's mother had reported her missing in March 2005 after she hadn't seen her in more than a year.

[977] So this is the kind of, as I said, the unfortunate circumstances behind this is because they were a lot of them, I think, drug addicts.

[978] They weren't around their families a lot.

[979] They were on the streets.

[980] A lot of them run away from their families.

[981] Exactly.

[982] Yeah.

[983] And so, I mean, if you've seen any fucking episode of intervention, you know what happens.

[984] You know, this could have easily been me or you.

[985] These are people who become addicted to drugs they turn to sex work to fund those drugs they fall in with a bad crowd bad boyfriend these things happen you know paint themselves into kind of like a bad corner maybe there's all but there's it's the thing and i think i've said it to you a million times where it's that when you when you are watching a true crime show and the people the family and the different people say we knew there was a problem when we didn't hear from her the next day because she would never do that right and every time it gives me the chills because i'm like I don't call my family so much that they're used to me not calling.

[986] Yeah.

[987] And that's how they know I'm a flake and I'm that person.

[988] Right.

[989] So like that's, there's lots of us that are like that anyway.

[990] Totally.

[991] And it's like you can't underestimate.

[992] You can't, we can't understate how addicting drugs and alcohol is when you have a life that you're trying to escape.

[993] Yeah.

[994] Even when you're not, it's just whatever.

[995] Yeah.

[996] So the second person to be identified is Michelle Valdez.

[997] She's a 22 -year -old mother.

[998] her father dan had reported her missing in 2005 Michelle had gotten pregnant at 13 years old can you fucking believe that and later began taking drugs and was disappearing for months at a time after her bones were found it was discovered that she was pregnant with a four month old unborn baby or four months pregnant I know Michelle's family had heard that her friend of hers from the street they didn't know her 32 year old cinnamon elks had gone missing along with Michelle at the same time.

[999] This is before they knew what had happened to her.

[1000] And they had heard the rumor that Michelle and Cinnamon were buried on the Mesa.

[1001] So Cinnamon's body was the third to be IDed.

[1002] And Cinnamon's mother had reported her missing when she didn't hear from her daughter on her birthday in August 2004.

[1003] So next was Julie Nietto.

[1004] She was 23 when she disappeared.

[1005] She had become addicted to drugs at 19.

[1006] And when her mother last saw her in August 2004, she reported her missing because she stopped sending birthday and Christmas presents to her young son.

[1007] Oh, no. I know.

[1008] It's like the things that you realize are off and why.

[1009] And that's the last thing you have.

[1010] And, you know, it's so sad.

[1011] So Monica Candleara had also had a son and was reported missing May 11, 2003.

[1012] Sheriff's detectives had also heard a rumor that she had been.

[1013] killed and buried on the Mesa.

[1014] So the cops knew about this rumor, but nothing came of it.

[1015] Mesa was fucking huge.

[1016] And her case had been given to the cold case unit.

[1017] Okay.

[1018] So Veronica Romero's family reported her missing on February 15th, 2004.

[1019] She had four children.

[1020] So at this point when Veronica's found, or identified, at the news conference for her and Monica, the fifth victim, ID, Albuquerque police chief.

[1021] Ray Schultz.

[1022] So he'd been holding press conferences as the woman had been IDed.

[1023] So each time someone's ID'd, he holds a press conference.

[1024] The press are fucking eating it up.

[1025] He had been making it clear at every press conference that the women had all and had been saying that they had arrest records for drug and sex works and they had mentioned it early and often that that was the case with these women.

[1026] And this press conference that he does for Veronica and Monica is the first time in the first press conference where he refers to the women as victims the first time after how many so they're the fifth and sixth to be reported so i think a couple of them had been announced together they were almost making it sound the first four like these were just the bodies we found the bodies of these sex workers which is obviously not the word they used right not the word that is used in any of the articles and fucking the shit i watch obviously but you know right we're new to that too it's a developing change but also just that idea that it's the what he's not saying but what's implied yeah is and this is what happens when you live that way so it's not they're not victims and we're not it's not right concern but he's also saying to the community who he knows are going to be flipping the fuck out and saying to him what are you going to do about this how are you going to solve this if he doesn't if he if he if he doesn't imply that it's partly their fault.

[1027] So if they just think that some fucking murderer is out there killing these young mothers and these young women and not telling everyone that they lived this lifestyle that's quote high risk.

[1028] Right.

[1029] So calm down, don't worry and don't get mad at us.

[1030] Right.

[1031] So this is, it's just the first time that they are referred to as victims is so horrible.

[1032] It's injustice.

[1033] And it's those, it's a disservice to those, the first four victims.

[1034] Right.

[1035] So Doreen Marquez, she, So this woman's interesting, and it's just another one of these stories that there's so much more to all of these women's background than you can ever imagine.

[1036] And they're not just drug addicts and sex workers.

[1037] So Doreen had been a cheerleader in high school.

[1038] She was a devoted mother, and she didn't start using drugs till later in her 20s.

[1039] Her boyfriend had been put in jail.

[1040] Her home life went to shit.

[1041] Not long after, at around 27 years old, her family reported her missing in December 2004.

[1042] So then the eighth victim to be IDed, Salonia Edwards, she is different than the rest of the victims in a couple ways.

[1043] First, she was the only victim not known to have friends and family in Albuquerque.

[1044] So she wasn't from Albuquerque.

[1045] Her family wasn't there.

[1046] She kind of had come in randomly from Oklahoma.

[1047] So she was 15 years old where she had run away from foster care.

[1048] she had a clearly really sad circumstances in her life.

[1049] She didn't know her dad.

[1050] Her mom died when she was five and she was in foster because she ran away.

[1051] She's also the only African -American victim.

[1052] Everyone else is white or mostly Hispanic.

[1053] And it was determined that she was traveling on the I -40 corridor, you know, the interstate 40 as a sex worker.

[1054] And I guess that's known as a circuit girl.

[1055] I think it's kind of that truck stop to truck stop thing of, you know, and I think you also do it with like a lot of a couple other girls it's not just you alone oh which is interesting that's smart yeah to not do it for sure right right but she still go alone with yeah that's right so then is and they were hoping that because she was different from the rest of the victims that that might help lead to who who's doing this but it did nothing ever came of it so virginia ann cloven was 23 she was reported missing in october 2004 she had run away from home when she was 17 after her brother had been shot and killed and she had been forced to live on the street later when her live -in boyfriend had been hit by a car and was hospitalized.

[1056] Oh, my God.

[1057] I know, this poor fucking baby.

[1058] Her family at last heard from her in June 2004 when she called to say that she had a new boyfriend who had just gotten out of prison and that she was going to marry him.

[1059] Number 10 is Evelyn Salazar, who's 23, also a mother.

[1060] Her family reported her missing on April 3rd, 2004, and she had, okay, this is weird.

[1061] She had been last seen about a week earlier with her 15 -year -old cousin, Jamie Borrella, who was the last victim to be IDed.

[1062] Oh, so Jamie Borrella was 15.

[1063] She was a high school student, and she, unlike the other West Mesa victims, she had no known sex crime or drug arrests, and she wasn't known to be in that world.

[1064] But her cousin, whose body was ID with her, Evelyn Salazar, was.

[1065] and they were last seen together heading from a family picnic to another park.

[1066] So, you know, you got to wonder what happened.

[1067] She's with her older cousin.

[1068] Someone pulls up who maybe her cousin from the sex working trade knows.

[1069] He's a friendly John.

[1070] Maybe they go to hang out with him.

[1071] You know, like who fucking knows what happened.

[1072] Well, that opens it up too.

[1073] And she's like just a high school girl.

[1074] So it could be, can you drive her home?

[1075] Also, what drives me crazy too is like, as you said, like we were both drug addict.

[1076] ourselves.

[1077] I think if you pulled most people, we'd find out they were addicted to something.

[1078] Yeah.

[1079] So this idea that these sex workers and these, the way drug addict sounds to the ear, because we've been hearing it for 40 years with this thing of, oh, the drug addict.

[1080] Oh, you know what I mean?

[1081] But knowing the nuances of what brings you to drug addiction and sex work.

[1082] And how many people are secret drug addicts that are like, well, you can put on your pretty pink, you know, sweater set and go to the mall and just slightly slur it.

[1083] Nobody cares.

[1084] And be a fucking Adderall drug addict and like yeah or the fucking oxycon thing that's taking over the nation where it's just like we have to stop making it sound like drug addicts are thrilled to be that way and they're like yeah fucking party on.

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] Because that's not the case.

[1087] Yeah.

[1088] It's not once you start.

[1089] That's the whole thing about fucking drugs is a lot of times you cannot stop.

[1090] Yeah.

[1091] That's addiction too.

[1092] I mean love addiction sex addiction.

[1093] All these things where you make terrible choices in your life and you know, because you don't deserve to die.

[1094] It's not you anymore.

[1095] And you don't deserve to be fucking killed or victimized.

[1096] I mean, yeah, all right.

[1097] Now I'm talking to you in this tone of voice that doesn't, it's not, it's not at me. You're talking to the, my, so, talking to everyone else listening.

[1098] So frustrating.

[1099] They all know.

[1100] All right.

[1101] You're telling Stephen.

[1102] I'm tired of, I'm tired of you denying this.

[1103] Steven, you're, just because you're addicted to Hello Kitty Cake.

[1104] No. He's eating the whole thing.

[1105] We've just watched him eat the entire.

[1106] higher thing during this episode.

[1107] It's impressive.

[1108] I kind of respect it.

[1109] Yeah, with his hands.

[1110] Yeah.

[1111] It's pretty great.

[1112] Um, but, but, but, but, okay.

[1113] So it took Albuquerque police nearly a year to identify all of the victims.

[1114] All of the women were between ages of 15 and 32 and most were Hispanic.

[1115] The women had gone missing between 2001 and 2005.

[1116] A hundred thousand dollar award for assistance to the arrest was assistance to arrest them, whatever was offered.

[1117] And detectives would only give the cause of death as homicidal violence, I think, wanting to keep all that shit under wraps.

[1118] So here are the suspects.

[1119] Police started looking for men who lived in the area with a history of violence against sex workers.

[1120] Turns out to be a really long fucking list.

[1121] Yeah.

[1122] Of course.

[1123] They also created a timeline using satellite images.

[1124] So this is fucking creepy and crazy.

[1125] And you can see this shit online and maybe we'll post it.

[1126] In 2002, they show like the Google Earth image where they show the huge patch of, what did I call it, desolate swath of land.

[1127] Yeah, it's a swath.

[1128] The swath of desert land.

[1129] And whatever, nothing unusual.

[1130] But then the satellite imagery taken in 2003 shows tire marks leading to patches of disturbed soil in the area where the remains were recovered.

[1131] So essentially, you can track someone driving up.

[1132] fucking digging a ditch, putting a body in, and covering it back up.

[1133] You see these like squares of disturbed earth.

[1134] And the way that that book I love, no stone in turn, tells you how you could find clandestine grapes based on the soil and that sort of thing.

[1135] Then in 2000 and more tire marks and bare spots showing up in 2005.

[1136] So they have this image of this timeline of this person going there and coming back.

[1137] and is that can they see the person or it's just they can just tell by the topography it's the topography it's you know snapshots taken unfortunately there was no cars when they took the photo which sucks a tiny tiny man yeah right in 2005 the marks stopped changing so they think that that's because the killer had to stop using that area because new estates had begun to be built in the area and people would have seen them coming and going but then everyone's always like imagine if the economy hadn't crashed, they would have just built fucking houses over these bodies.

[1138] And imagine how many places that that actually happened.

[1139] I mean...

[1140] No, let's not imagine that.

[1141] Let's stay up all night.

[1142] All right.

[1143] So the two main suspects, here they are.

[1144] The first main suspect is a man named Lorenzo Montoya.

[1145] He lived in a mobile home less than three miles.

[1146] And it's really like two miles from the burial site up until his death in 2006.

[1147] Lorenzo was a short but really powerfully built man. And I saw a photo of dead fucking eyes, like the deadest eyes.

[1148] He was in his 30s when the killings occurred and had been arrested multiple times for solicitation.

[1149] In 1999, he had picked up a 23 -year -old sex worker who was being watched by the vice unit.

[1150] And I don't even think she knew.

[1151] Oh.

[1152] They were just like, let's track her.

[1153] Yeah.

[1154] When they followed Lorenzo's truck with the sex worker in the car, they followed them to an isolated spot.

[1155] and police interrupted them after Lorenzo had already sexually assaulted her and while he was fucking trying to strangle her.

[1156] No. So he's strangling her and the cops like fucking knock on the window.

[1157] Jesus Christ.

[1158] She told police that Lorenzo looked like he was enjoying strangling her.

[1159] Oh my God.

[1160] And she was convinced he was going to kill her if the police hadn't intervened.

[1161] Unfortunately, the case was dismissed because the victim didn't want to testify against him, which is heartbreaking.

[1162] In 2006, there were reportedly tire tracks leading from his trailer to the site of the dead, of the bodies, but I only saw that in a couple places, so I don't know if that's actually true.

[1163] Right.

[1164] All right.

[1165] December 2006, Lorenzo had solicited a 19 -year -old woman named Sharika Hill via a chat room to come to his mobile home for a private dance.

[1166] Once she was in his mobile home, Lorenzo bound her hands and feet with duct tape, then strangled her to death.

[1167] in what police called a, quote, brutal, orchestrated, and very violent way.

[1168] But Lorenzo didn't know that Sharika had brought her boyfriend, Frederick Williams, with her for protection.

[1169] So after waiting outside for an hour in his car, Frederick gets worried, goes to knock on the door of the mobile home.

[1170] And so this is kind of, I've read two different accounts of this.

[1171] either Lorenzo was dragging Shariq's body to his car or Lorenzo just burst out with a gun and Frederick the boyfriend fucking shot and killed Lorenzo Holy fuck.

[1172] Yeah.

[1173] So and here's another fucking great thing.

[1174] Can I just say one thing?

[1175] Yeah.

[1176] This is starting to sound insanely familiar.

[1177] You know that.

[1178] I know you know this.

[1179] Right, but we didn't do it did we?

[1180] Don't ever say that again.

[1181] I don't care if it's true.

[1182] Maybe it was because we were in New Mexico and so I read it.

[1183] Maybe.

[1184] But it also, parts of this were covered in the Long Island serial killer, that, that documentary.

[1185] That's what it is.

[1186] That's what it is.

[1187] Yeah, yeah.

[1188] That's what it is.

[1189] Which is, what's it called again.

[1190] It was so great.

[1191] The killing fields?

[1192] Yes.

[1193] This is part of that is in there.

[1194] Yeah.

[1195] No. I was thinking the same thing earlier.

[1196] I was like, did she?

[1197] I don't care.

[1198] I don't care if she did it.

[1199] So, but here's another.

[1200] In the article from the time, I was like looking at, reading an article, the incident, it's described as Lorenzo having, quote, choke to death.

[1201] a prostitute at his home then was shot by the woman's pimp like that's how it's described in 2006 in the fucking article not that this not their names not that she wasn't a fucking prostitute she was going there as a dancer 19 years old not that the dude she brought was her boyfriend who she was just like come I know this is creepy come hang out with me I just want to make sure I'm safe right it's instead choke to death a prostitute at his home was then was then shot by the woman's pimp like that just implies that it's almost like he's the victim.

[1202] That's 100%.

[1203] And also, it's not specific to, like, even the police were like, it was extremely violent.

[1204] Right.

[1205] It's like, they don't, I don't know why choke to death sounds so much lighter than, like, if the cops are saying extreme violence, why can't the, why can't the newspaper say it?

[1206] And then in this, in all these interviews with the, you know, investigators who now won't say if, you know, he's a major suspect or not, they all say, like, Well, we would have loved to interview him and we would have loved to have a chance to interrogate him, but we can't.

[1207] It's almost like they're blaming this guy.

[1208] Yeah.

[1209] Frederick Williams, this poor fucking dude who killed him.

[1210] And it's like, it just sounds accusatory that if he hadn't done that, maybe they would be able to solve it.

[1211] I mean, who pulled a gun, who also had a gun.

[1212] Like, it's just, who just murdered his fucking girlfriend.

[1213] The attack or like his, his girlfriend's murderer.

[1214] Right.

[1215] Yeah.

[1216] So it's just, it's hard.

[1217] Yes.

[1218] After Lorenzo's killed, the murders stop.

[1219] Oh.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] Well, I feel like we've solved it.

[1222] I think so too.

[1223] But here's another suspect.

[1224] Okay.

[1225] Okay.

[1226] So police thought looked good for the murders is a dude named Joseph Blay, B -L -E -A.

[1227] Seven days after finding the first phone on the mesa, a woman calls detectives to say that they should look at her ex -husband, Joseph Blay.

[1228] She said that she'd found jewelry in the house that didn't belong to her and women's underwear.

[1229] The women's underwear, like maybe he's a person.

[1230] and like collects and like saves them whatever the jewelry is like no fucking one's going to be like yeah take my jewelry true i mean and maybe he collects that too there's all ways to do it but like the combination of the two is not good never listen oh my god if you find jewelry in your if you find jewelry underwear and duct tape in one duffel bag get the fuck out of town goodbye well here here's this oh this dude is a fucking piece of shit okay in the 1980s blay had been dubbed quote the mid -school rapist, as he would often break into the homes of 13 to 15 -year -old girls who lived near a middle school in Albuquerque and raped them in the 80s.

[1231] Between 1990 and 2009, Blay had 130 run -ins with police.

[1232] Fucking eight.

[1233] 130.

[1234] He frequented areas that many of the victims were known to hang out and was once found by police in that area with rope and electrical tape in his car.

[1235] So there you go.

[1236] He's got all fucking three.

[1237] He's got all fucking three.

[1238] He's got.

[1239] everything we need.

[1240] In one case, the DNA from a 1985 murder of a girl found in Albuquerque was retested, but not until 2010 after someone else had gone to prison for it and found a match Blay.

[1241] So the guy who was in prison for it was exonerated.

[1242] Oh, good.

[1243] In addition, okay, and this part is, and I want to know your opinion on this.

[1244] So a tree tag from a nursery was found in the area where then West Mesa's victims' bodies were buried.

[1245] And it was tracked down to a nursery in California that Blay had once frequented.

[1246] To me, that's like, you're in an area of, there's trash everywhere.

[1247] It's also, or there's a new building going on, so plants were probably ordered.

[1248] Yep, and shipped in.

[1249] And if it's being shipped in, maybe it's from California.

[1250] That, to me, is just like a fucking long shot, unless it's, like, buried in the dirt with the bodies.

[1251] Yeah, but, you know, I think if you look at it in the way of, if you're a police person that's processing that evidence, and when you look it all up, And then you're like, oh, this is from the Sun Valley, um, botanical, whatever.

[1252] Oh, it's from, um, what did I want to call my name?

[1253] Uh, little shop of horticulture.

[1254] Or my mom, what my mom owns?

[1255] Yeah.

[1256] My mom a horticulturist.

[1257] So once they, when they're looking into that and they're like, they call up and then they, have you ever heard of this guy's name?

[1258] And they say yes.

[1259] I mean, boom, you're like, there's no way that's a coincidence.

[1260] That's very true.

[1261] It's more circumstantial evidence that will keep you on track looking into this guy.

[1262] Of course.

[1263] Also, the idea that anybody hangs out at a nursery, the way you phrased it is like it's his favorite bar.

[1264] Frequent, yeah.

[1265] I frequent this nursery.

[1266] I'd just like to touch Jasmine plants.

[1267] That's what I like.

[1268] I do like to do that.

[1269] They're very silky.

[1270] They are.

[1271] They smell so good.

[1272] Okay.

[1273] So he's now around 60 years old and he's serving 90 years in prison or he has a 90 year of prison sentence for four of the sexual assaults related.

[1274] way back into the 1980s for the mid -school rape cases.

[1275] He's claimed that he's been with several of the West Mesa victims in the past like had hired them as sex workers.

[1276] He just brought that up?

[1277] I guess so.

[1278] Okay.

[1279] Who knows?

[1280] All right.

[1281] Six women from Detective Lopez's list of similarly missing women in Albuquerque are still unaccounted for.

[1282] Six.

[1283] Six.

[1284] The last to go missing was Vanessa Reed in June of 2006 just six months before Lorenzo was shot and killed.

[1285] In 2014, Detective Lopez retired.

[1286] She was like, I can't, apparently.

[1287] She did plenty.

[1288] She did a lot.

[1289] She fucking nailed it.

[1290] And so there was only one detective left on the case.

[1291] But then in 2016, Detective Lopez was like, all right, fine.

[1292] She comes back to work.

[1293] I'm putting so many.

[1294] She throws down a dish towel.

[1295] Fine.

[1296] She's like, there's a dateline about this case, and she's interviewed throughout it.

[1297] And she's just cries.

[1298] She's lovely.

[1299] She's just such a clearly a. a caring woman who just wants nothing more than this case to be solved for the families, for the victims.

[1300] She cares not, you know, about their history.

[1301] She's just obviously a wonderful woman.

[1302] Can I just say too?

[1303] I think the more women that get involved in police work and all this stuff that we all talk about that I think people are genuinely interested in, but the more they get involved and people like to argue of, oh, political correctness, oh, now we have to say sex work, or oh, now we can't say prostitute.

[1304] But if you think about it in that way, that the more people get trained to think of these victims as human fucking beings whose murders need to get solved not only 100 % for the fact that their lives mattered, but also because there is a fucking lunatic killing them, targeting them and killing them.

[1305] Like, just the concept has to change so that these creeps can get caught.

[1306] It doesn't come with the job that you might get killed.

[1307] There are murderers who take, advantage of people who are you know one would say the most fucking vulnerable yes and and and know that nobody cares as a society we're trained not to give a shit and because of words like prostitute and hooker and not saying sex worker and not saying fucking victim right yeah oh we know everything murderinos are on the fucking up and they they really are and things are absolutely changing quicker than we could know definitely yeah um so she comes back to work detective lopez comes back to work on a contract basis to investigate the murders, partly because they realize how close her relationships are with the victim's families who are so thankful that she's, you know, cared so much and kept in touch with him.

[1308] And, you know, she's like Aaron Brockovich.

[1309] She's Aaron fucking Brockovich.

[1310] Yeah.

[1311] They, she understands them.

[1312] Um, and just to end about the victims and how they are deemed less important by society due to their lifestyles in this, uh, 20 -20 episode to our friend, David Mankowitz, you old so -and -so.

[1313] Ida Lopez says, their soul is no different than mine, and they're not any less important to God.

[1314] Hell yes, Ida. Ida. So that's the fucking West Matesa bone collector.

[1315] I'm unbelievable.

[1316] Yeah.

[1317] I also just thought of this, too.

[1318] A couple people have tweeted us at us about this.

[1319] Also, Dave Anthony of the Dallop.

[1320] Thank you.

[1321] Oh, no. Sorry, Dave.

[1322] of the dollop also tweeted at me about this Trump recently and this is going to go under the fucking carpet rug because our democracy is imploding and so there's lots of other things that keep becoming more important but recently Trump passed a law that is incredibly dangerous for sex workers saying that they cannot advertise online Oh right in the back page they can't back page it they can't do there's a name for this everybody should look it up but it is uh we've we've been i was contacted or like tweeted up by a couple people talking about how bringing this law and needing to overturn this law is really important because basically if sex workers can't ensure their own safety by knowing that the people that they're doing business with um knowing their names getting credit card numbers doing all that stuff even a phone number tracing their phone number exactly it forces them back onto the street right And it puts everybody in a fucking huge danger.

[1323] And Trump called it it's the allow states and victims to fight online sex trafficking act, Fosta, F -O -S -T -A.

[1324] And it says it aims to fight sex trafficking by reducing legal protections for online platforms.

[1325] And it got passed by an overwhelming majority.

[1326] But privacy and civil liberty advocates say it's a fatal.

[1327] flawed bill that hurts small online communities and sex workers say it's going to make them less safe because they have to go offline to do business.

[1328] Listen to the sex workers.

[1329] They'll tell you what is right.

[1330] And also the irony of that man passing a bill like this and pretending that he gives a single shit about sex trafficking and sex workers and women in this kind of community, just please.

[1331] And we're not talking about sex trafficking.

[1332] That is a whole different issue that we 100 % no is a big problem.

[1333] It needs to be addressed.

[1334] Everything we talk about has ripples and rings of bigger issues, but I didn't want, since we're basically exactly talking about this, I don't want to talk about this, first of all, because I hate when we talk about things and I only know half about it.

[1335] But I think it's important to mention this now, where if this is a concern of yours in any way, you should absolutely look up F -O -S -T -A, the F -F -T -A -Bill, and do what you can to fight against it.

[1336] is it's incredibly dangerous for sex workers.

[1337] That's great.

[1338] I'm glad you did that.

[1339] Thank you.

[1340] Yeah.

[1341] Yeah.

[1342] And thanks, Dave, Anthony.

[1343] Because he, of course, he texted it, uh, texted to me about it at like eight in the morning where I was just like, Dave, I'm so glad you're on the front lines for us.

[1344] He should go to, he did not go to bed the night before.

[1345] I know it.

[1346] He's just, he's up writing a new doll up about, you know.

[1347] That's right.

[1348] Yes.

[1349] Um, and that was great.

[1350] That's the cue.

[1351] Elvis is meow is the cue.

[1352] To go into fucking hooray.

[1353] It's a fucking hooray.

[1354] That was Elvis's a small hooray.

[1355] That says, it's like a doorbell now.

[1356] Ding -dong.

[1357] Who's there?

[1358] Oh, it's time, Elvis.

[1359] Elvis is like, shut up.

[1360] Oh, the hooray cats here.

[1361] The hooray cats here.

[1362] So we both have a lighthearted, dumb one, and then I have a sweet one.

[1363] Okay, cool.

[1364] That actually has to do with Elvis.

[1365] Okay.

[1366] So we want to go first?

[1367] Sure.

[1368] My hooray is for this week.

[1369] One is, it's, um, I, it was very difficult week and lots of different ways.

[1370] And I was spending a lot of time in the morning between like 7 a .m. and 9 a .m. rattled with anxiety, stress, and rage.

[1371] We got a lot of going on right now.

[1372] So one of the mornings, I'd had dinner with Lizzie Cooperman, who was talking about the meditation classes that she's taking and how much she loves it.

[1373] She's so spiritual.

[1374] She's very spiritually.

[1375] She's universally tapped in.

[1376] Okay, that's enough.

[1377] And I was, so she put it in my head.

[1378] I'd taken classes about it and stuff, but then, so I was watching this show, ancient aliens, which is one of my faves.

[1379] And it was talking about how meditation allows your subconscious brain to access the Akashik record, which is everything that's ever happened in humanity ever.

[1380] And when you can tap into that, you can tap into creativity.

[1381] And that's how they were talking about spontaneous ideas, how like Alexander Graham Bell submitted the patent for the telephone and the same day someone else submitted the exact same pattern and there's all the they have all the you have to watch this episode of Asian aliens I want to watch it so bad it's um it might be called spontaneous inventions or something like that but it basically the theory their theory ancient uh ancient astronaut theorists suggest that that when you uh rest your brain and let your subconscious and they showed a guy in an MRI doing this when your brain rests and you go blank your unconscious becomes alive and starts actually like doing stuff and because we're fucking AI we have all the history already downloaded we just don't ever tap into it like it's already all there yes I've got the biggest fucking conspiracy theory boner right now yeah also they showed people who got head injuries and then when they came out of the hospital like one guy became a concert pianist and he'd never taking a lesson.

[1382] There was a guy who could, who could immediately draw these insane, he saw mathematical equations everywhere and could see whatever, what like the diameter was of everything.

[1383] It's so crazy.

[1384] So anyway, because of all those things, I started meditating.

[1385] Yay.

[1386] And I've only done it for two days, but it's really great.

[1387] And I've been using an app called the Insight Timer.

[1388] I'm downloading it.

[1389] It, you can, I've only, I've done two 10 minute meditations.

[1390] I normally go super crazy about minute four and I have to get up and walk away.

[1391] But if you start with guided meditation.

[1392] Yeah, you have to do guided.

[1393] I'm just bananas.

[1394] Then you're listening and that's the focus.

[1395] And you don't have to sit there going, stop talking to yourself and all that shit that makes you crazy.

[1396] And you can kind of dip into it.

[1397] And they have guided meditations about everything.

[1398] Like a million things, guys with British accents.

[1399] Anyway, so the inside timer is awesome.

[1400] Paul onions does one.

[1401] That's what I did this morning.

[1402] That's awesome.

[1403] It was really good.

[1404] But the other thing that's the second piece to that in my relaxation.

[1405] I found this show and I'd already heard of it called, it's a British series from I think the late 90s or maybe the 2000s called the Royal Family, R -O -Y -A -L -E.

[1406] And it is a sitcom from England just about this plain old family.

[1407] I can't remember where they live.

[1408] They don't really talk about it that much.

[1409] But it's like a half -hour play.

[1410] And it is really basic and it's very quiet and it's very real and it's like it's a big old high -backed couch and then the dad's chair pulled up real close to the TV so the entire thing takes place while the family watches she and it is so funny and the reason I brought up the tea lunch thing is because the mom whoever comes into the house sits down on the couch and starts watching TV with them and then she'll go did you have your tea and then they'll go yeah and then she'll go what you have and then they'll describe what they had so like people are having like car and beef hash and all these things which made me go what's fucking tea it must be lunch i think it's okay i think it's like the the brunch i think it's brunch but between dinner lunch and dinner it's second lunch maybe let's find out okay but we will find out oh we will but if you here's why i love the show as opposed to murder we know we need to take break sometimes also sometimes oh wait i'm wrong i'm sorry they have tea and then they go, what'd you have for pudding?

[1411] That's right.

[1412] Pudding's dessert.

[1413] That's right.

[1414] They talk about that on here.

[1415] Because she said, who wants pudding one time?

[1416] And then she served up fruit cocktail.

[1417] And I was like, what is happening?

[1418] But anyway, if you want to relax, if you're like a, what do you call it, a brittophile.

[1419] Highstron.

[1420] Oh, yeah.

[1421] An anglofile.

[1422] It's like you went and sat in a living room with this family.

[1423] And they're hilarious.

[1424] and they're super mean the youngest son they keep making him get up and make tea or like they're like antony go get the thing and he's always mad he's like a teenager it's just a very realistic family dynamic and it's very quiet everyone talks very quietly so it's really relaxing it's called the royal family and it's on netflix i love it i'm gonna do that i'm gonna do both those things okay um give it a try and then we'll meet back here and talk about let's have let's just change this podcast so what you have for tea oh my god corby every day also just the way she asked the question is that great actress you've seen this british actress in a million things she's so fucking good in this part but it is that thing where it's like that's what my family's like they just want to know too i think that they always ask you what you had for tea yeah they want to know what it's like saying what are you been doing but being real specific and then being like oh i had this i that pork chop sounds good like it's so funny and real i love it tell us what you had for tea everyone tell us what you had for tea when you find out what it is my boring one, my ding -dong one, you know, I fucking hate movies and I'm just like the biggest critic and I hate everything.

[1425] Yeah.

[1426] I had found so much joy.

[1427] Vince and I watched it together and he also doesn't, not as bad as me, but isn't a movie guy.

[1428] Right.

[1429] Jimonji was so enjoyable.

[1430] And you told, we talked about it and so it's fine.

[1431] Okay, I'll watch it.

[1432] Fine.

[1433] What a little joy of a movie.

[1434] Oh, I laugh so hard.

[1435] I cried.

[1436] It was so fun.

[1437] The Rock is just an angel baby.

[1438] The lovely girl in it It was so, I want her fucking hair She was such a badass Karen, her name is Karen something And she was a star on like One of the more recent Doctor Who series That's right Red hair Karen All of them Everyone was just the best I loved it Fucking Jack Black Playing a teenage girl That's right Oh I think we You mentioned it last episode Did I?

[1439] And I was like Did you text him and tell him How great he was And you were like Oh no I were not that kind of friend He was a wife But you agree He was great It's so good It's really enjoyable.

[1440] As someone who hates everything, it made me really happy.

[1441] It makes me like it more when I don't hate it because I fucking hate everything.

[1442] The Shape of Water?

[1443] What are you talking about?

[1444] That was the most atrocious, weird fucking beastiality movie I've ever seen.

[1445] My thing was, and my friend, the most hilarious comedian, Naomi Ekpergen, she goes, so she just falls in love with them automatically?

[1446] What's the backstory?

[1447] Is he from a river?

[1448] Like, she started, and she wasn't trying to be funny.

[1449] She was so pissed off.

[1450] He also, like, didn't hit on her.

[1451] He, like, moved her, her, uh, tank top sleeve, which he doesn't understand what that is.

[1452] Yes.

[1453] And then she fucking takes advantage of him.

[1454] I thought it was a little bit, I just was really upset.

[1455] It's like so many rom -coms where it's like, you don't know why they like each other.

[1456] So why is this the great love of all time?

[1457] So why do I care?

[1458] Oh, I did like Lady Bird.

[1459] Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[1460] I thought that was a really, really good movie.

[1461] So good.

[1462] The sweet thing, I'm going to leave y 'all.

[1463] on a sad happy note okay there's someone in the my favorite murder uh facebook which is now you can now go to the we have we have a fan cult on my favorite murder dot com you can join our fan cult there's forums and shit you can talk about stuff um her name's amy i don't think she wants me to say her last name okay okay her name's amy and she wrote this uh last week i drive my daughter three and a half to four hours twice a week to speech therapy most of my commute is accompanied by georgia and karen oh no as the minisode ended today my three -year -old yelled from the back seat elbis i love him he's my elvis elvis yeah okay good because you were looking at me definitely a heartfelt moment we thought talking might never come with her disorder but even sweeter that she loves elvis oh my so she doesn't speak and she yelled that Okay, sorry.

[1464] I was confused because I pictured that the speech therapy child would be older.

[1465] Like for some reason, I cast her as a, like a 10 -year -old.

[1466] So when you said the 3 -year -old, then I was like, so it's an unspeaking.

[1467] We thought talking might never come with her disorder, but even sweeter that she loves Elvis and then the emoji cat with hearts in its eyes.

[1468] And she yelled out of it.

[1469] Do you know how much I love it.

[1470] this cat like yes i know actually exactly how much you love that cat so knowing that means like so much like that it's elvis makes me so happy well you now you know there's a three -year -old that loves your cat as much as you too he loves you too sweetie um he is a good boy he's such a good boy he knows it he's like i am i'm having a certain feeling i can tell something's about to happen he fucking knows when we've blathered on too long yeah he's like we're now at the uh seven -hour mark cut it ladies um well thanks you guys for listening this week thank you for listening uh if you listen you guys are the best look look and listen we love you thank you so stay sexy and don't get murdered bye bye i'll miss you want cookie ah