60 - Jazz It

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVeyne, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Go, goodbye.

[16] Hi.

[17] Hi.

[18] How's it going?

[19] Good, how are you?

[20] Real good, yourself.

[21] Good, thank you.

[22] Good, good.

[23] Good.

[24] This is my favorite murder.

[25] We're a podcast that talks about true crime stories and really breaks them down.

[26] Yep.

[27] And that's all we talk about.

[28] That's not true.

[29] There is a lot of lying on this podcast.

[30] And we don't, yeah, this is pretty, this is pretty exactly how it goes.

[31] Yeah, if you don't like it, go away.

[32] Don't, Karen gets real mad at you guys sometimes.

[33] I feel like people kind of like at live shows they like when you yell at them so they'll purposely like scream something well I mean some of those live shows it's like those people have never been in a theater or been to a live show before it's just like drunk girls who were yelling the same thing over and over that's not how you act then you hear other people shushing those people it's just intense it's just like it feels like there's a fight's gonna break out And it might be with you.

[34] Oh, that's fine with me. I'm thoroughly trained.

[35] You love a bar fight.

[36] God, I'm sorry.

[37] I do have some corrections from the, God, last couple.

[38] Speaking of the live show, in the Boston show that we posted, I referenced the blog name.

[39] I did it for Jody.

[40] I said it was a, that was a reference to Mark David Chapman, but that's incorrect.

[41] I meant John Hinkley Jr. The man who tried to assassinate Reagan, he said when he was brought in that he did it for Jody Foster.

[42] He was obsessed with Jody Foster.

[43] I was talking about Mark David Chapman.

[44] That's the man who shot John Lennon.

[45] Got it.

[46] I was about to say, oh, he was the one I shot John Lennon.

[47] So were you?

[48] Yeah.

[49] About my guy?

[50] Yeah.

[51] Yeah, the three -name guys, it's hard.

[52] And then the ones who everybody theorizes are actually government robots.

[53] Do they?

[54] Yeah, that's both of those guys.

[55] There's a lot of theorizing that it's like an MK Ultra situation.

[56] Like the nerdy as fuck guys, you just like kind of get them mixed up.

[57] They definitely are both in the nerd group if this was the mess Westminster dog show.

[58] One of them has, that's hilarious.

[59] I want to pause for a moment to acknowledge that.

[60] Thank you.

[61] Instead of going on to saying that which one had Catcher in the Rye in his back pocket, which is like the best book ever if you're in high school.

[62] That was Mark David Chapman.

[63] yes because he's the one that shot john lennon right and he had john lennon's sign catcher in the rye of right which is just like all right yeah calm down i mean jesus like come on yeah you know what i mean um so oh yeah what else that mistake also kind of in the same vein um when you were talking about sam shepherd and you told that story, I began to confuse Sam Shepard with Dr. Jeffrey McDonald who also killed his whole family or is suspected of.

[64] He's the one with the, there was saying there's three crazy people.

[65] They like to say these things.

[66] Yes, your guy, Sam Shepard, was in the early 60s.

[67] My guy that I was thinking you were talking about was in 69.

[68] And so the whole time, that's why at one point in that episode, I was like, what year was it?

[69] Because I was like, in my mind there's no way there could be two doctors who killed their whole families and were like guilty or like suspected and also equally not suspected it and got away well this is sham shepherds the one sham sham he's a sham he's a sham he's the one who got kind of famous afterwards yeah and like was it kind of a douche right there were both but and uh and they both they both didn't kill their children who were sleeping in the bedroom next to where they killed their wives.

[70] Well, I don't want to agree because I'm not sure.

[71] Allegedly killed their wives.

[72] All right.

[73] But Dr. Jeffrey McDonald is the one who Fatal Vision is about and who is also the one who the Errol Morris new novel that's basically a refuting Fatal Vision is about.

[74] Wait, so refuting saying that he did or didn't do it?

[75] Fatal Vision was basically Joe McGinnis making friends with Jeffrey McDonald and then being like here's how he did it and then when like in arrow Morris's book which I just got a book on tape of they basically break down how it was just super mishandled and like it was just they were trying to make money helter -skelter style and it was you know the whole thing was kind of unfairly presented I guess but I have to listen to the whole thing before I sure do love to talk about things I don't know that much about No I feel like you shouldn't listen to let's hear it now let's just theorize much like when I talked about sco -diving and I said that you have to have a partner because there's no way you can check your things.

[76] Well, of course, then.

[77] Everyone on Twitter is like, yes, you can check your things.

[78] It's not like someone's going to be like under the water.

[79] What if they did, though?

[80] Karen said, you didn't need to correct that.

[81] You know what I mean?

[82] I mean, here's the thing, though.

[83] It's those little lies.

[84] Yeah.

[85] It's the same one as I said that my dad got chemotherapy three times a week.

[86] And then I thought about it this morning, I'm like, he got it once a week.

[87] And he got it for like, you know, eight, I don't know, three weeks, three months or something like that.

[88] But just as I talk, it's just all like, blah, blah, blah.

[89] But you sound so confident about it.

[90] Like, I am very pretty confident.

[91] No. I want to apologize to you for correcting you so vehemently and cockily.

[92] Cockily?

[93] Mm -hmm.

[94] About not saying the word hobo anymore.

[95] oh yeah but the audience was already making that sound oh they were uh -huh that oh we don't I can't I think so okay um well it shouldn't come from me thank you for apologizing I just did I was transient transient spell it but why though I just need a good reason because hobo is uh just a it's a negative term that that that insinuates that I don't know it's just it's it's slang.

[96] So what?

[97] I don't know.

[98] Don't ask me why.

[99] Well, I'm just saying I'm not going to change it until I get the reason.

[100] Sex worker is because prostitute is a negative and it actually makes people, when people see the word, they immediately judge the person and, like, lessen the value.

[101] Hobo, how, though?

[102] I don't know.

[103] I just want to know.

[104] I'm sure there's someone out there that knows.

[105] I bet they're going to tell us.

[106] Yeah.

[107] I'd love to know.

[108] Because maybe it's like host stands for this and both dance for that type of thing.

[109] I want to know what it is, though.

[110] Yeah.

[111] Because I feel like in this day and age, there's things people can't do, and it's just because some other person decided we're not doing that anymore.

[112] Yes.

[113] I don't like that stuff.

[114] Okay.

[115] Yeah.

[116] Okay.

[117] Yeah.

[118] I just think it sounds really dismissive of the circuit.

[119] But I get it that it's just because I've heard that before.

[120] It's just like, that old hobo, you know what I mean?

[121] It's just, it's dismissive of the I say it would love in my heart.

[122] It sounds pretty rad.

[123] It's a guy with a hole in his boot that's going to cook up can of beans over a fire it's all fun good um did you hear about the chick in Seattle and I'm sure you did because every single person in the world tweeted it at us but the girl who was running in the park in Seattle in Ballard which is like a nice little community who got attacked in the in the bathroom in the public bathroom in the park which I'm terrified of those and she's yeah she fucking fought him and said not today motherfucker.

[124] And here's the gray area is like you don't want to say how bad ass she is because that's sending the message that you should always fight once, you know, that's, it's just such a situational thing and like reading the situation.

[125] So you don't want to be like, beat the shit out of the person attacking you because that could be the absolute wrong thing to do in that situation.

[126] Yes, I say in all of these scenarios, anything in life is a case by case situation.

[127] Right.

[128] And just because we're saying it out loud doesn't mean it's a rule of any kind.

[129] No. Nobody needs to hear that in particular but yeah also if you if you I think in a situation like that those bathrooms it's like a secluded she knows she's secluded in a park and then even more so in that bathroom it's a man inside the woman's bathroom that's there's nothing about this that can be turned around so go for it yeah that's true go for it you know you know as a human being when you are in real danger right that's then just allow those instincts to take over, I would say.

[130] Yeah, I think it's all instinctual.

[131] I don't think any, it's any thinking at that point.

[132] Right.

[133] Oh, fuck, man. And I like the idea that, like, I think, didn't she say she had taken a self -defense class?

[134] And so that's where that came from is just, like, because that's the thing they teach you is you just start fucking yelling.

[135] Well, the thing I really did like about it, and I think what I took away from it is that at one point, you know, she was fighting him.

[136] And at one point, she thought in her mind, this doesn't have to be a fair It was, then she said, I started clawing at his face.

[137] Yes.

[138] And I think that that, to me, kind of hit me because it was like, this doesn't have to be civil.

[139] This can be fucking out of control.

[140] Yes.

[141] If there is someone in the bathroom that came into the bathroom to harm you or touch you in any way that you don't want to happen, you go, the knee goes to the nuts, the fingers go to the eyes, and you fucking go for it, animal style, like they serve it in and out.

[142] You fucking go for it.

[143] Yeah.

[144] Put some fucking Thousand Island on that motherfucker.

[145] Put that Thousand Island beat down.

[146] You melt that cheese on top of that beat down girl.

[147] And you fucking put some sauteed onions and some fucking Thousand Island beat down.

[148] It's called the Not Today Motherfucker Special and you give it, you serve it up for free.

[149] Animal style.

[150] Yeah, 100%.

[151] Bon Appetit, Motherfinite.

[152] We have to take a class so we can talk about actual, I want to do it really bad.

[153] Let's do it.

[154] Yeah.

[155] Let's do it.

[156] I think the reason that I hesitate, if I'm to be totally honest, is because you know those suits that they make the people put on so that you can attack them?

[157] Or the ones that the dog attacks, like to have the dog attack you?

[158] Yeah, but I'm specifically talking about the ones where the guy has to stand there, but there's like a great in front of his face, but everything else's pads.

[159] I'm scared of that.

[160] Of that character?

[161] Or putting that on?

[162] It looks like a, it looks like an off -brand Michelin Man. It looks like the Michelin Man in Malaysia.

[163] and I don't, that in and of itself is like horrifying.

[164] I think it would like stop me in my tracks.

[165] Maybe it would make you fight him more.

[166] Maybe your instincts will kick in and you'll be like, well, I can do this.

[167] Maybe I'm afraid that my animal instincts will kick in and I'll pull that fucking great out of the face and then in, in with the fingers in the eyes.

[168] Yeah.

[169] Then I get sued.

[170] Maybe you should.

[171] Hey.

[172] You know what?

[173] Why is this creepy guys teaching this class anyways?

[174] Like what's really his motive?

[175] Now he has your address because you had a. fill out a thing.

[176] Now he's my credit card number.

[177] And your address.

[178] And he's going to Del Taco every night on my dime.

[179] I know.

[180] That's bullshit.

[181] Literal dime.

[182] Who is this?

[183] Tuesday nights.

[184] You can get so much stuff.

[185] Oh my God.

[186] Oh man. I fucking hit that place so hard and this is out of town.

[187] I went to, oh my God.

[188] Do you drive there?

[189] Yeah.

[190] You mean because it's down the street from me?

[191] It's not, it's not super close.

[192] I wouldn't say it's super close.

[193] I drove.

[194] home and went there.

[195] But I did go out of my way to go to Carl's Jr. Like the day before.

[196] Nice.

[197] It's that fucking when the dogs away, the, you know, the animals.

[198] Yeah.

[199] I bet you're farting all over this apartment too.

[200] Hey.

[201] I was.

[202] That's the fun of it.

[203] And you clean all up and you put on one of your nicer house dresses.

[204] Yeah.

[205] You're like, welcome home.

[206] Oh, look how normal I am.

[207] Look, I made you a casserole.

[208] He married a normal wife.

[209] Way to go.

[210] totally normal wiping like weird beans out of the corner of your mouth that was an island anything else those were all my mistakes that's it bless me father fry sin how long has it been since your last episode of my favorite murder it's been I mean it's probably been a good 10 years since my last confession yeah I've always been creeped out by confession it is as a Jewish person I'm I'm like, fuck, no. It's super weird.

[211] And the fact that they introduced it to you when you're in third grade is the creepiest part because you, they explain it to you.

[212] And for me, the type of person I was, which is hating to do anything I've never done before, I couldn't get anybody to explain it enough to me. Plus, you have to memorize, you have to have our father, the Hail Mary, and the act of contrition all memorized perfectly.

[213] So if you're in there and it's your line, like you can't drop a line.

[214] You're like, I just learned my ABCs.

[215] Yes, I'm like, can you rush out of like adding and subtracting?

[216] And now I'm like, you have to recite an incantation to like just the shadow of a man's face behind.

[217] It is the oldest looking inside those things.

[218] And who the fuck is he?

[219] Does he have your address?

[220] Your home address?

[221] You know what I mean?

[222] Like, why did he want my child's credit card?

[223] Why did he fucking, who is he to say?

[224] Who is he to take?

[225] my hard -earned credit in third grade.

[226] It's really crazily creepy.

[227] What's cool about Hebrew when you're like doing the prayers and stuff is that, A, they write it like phonetically, so you can like just follow that.

[228] And also they, you can just kind of make noise.

[229] Oh.

[230] Because the whole congregation singing it at once, it's kind of, you know, it's pretty great.

[231] That is good.

[232] So I don't know.

[233] Do you, when's the last time you went to temple?

[234] Oh, my, years and years and years.

[235] Oh.

[236] No. Do you ever have the holiday thing where you're like, oh, it's...

[237] Oh, yeah, we have holiday dinners and we get together for holidays, and we'll say a couple of the prayers, but we don't...

[238] But you're going to take it into that temple, make it official.

[239] No, we're very chill.

[240] Right, right.

[241] But I did have a bat mitzvah.

[242] Did you stack that paper?

[243] Kind of.

[244] I was bought mitzvahed by a lesbian.

[245] Nice move.

[246] Yeah, thanks, Mom.

[247] That's really, really orange...

[248] Like opposite Orange County of you.

[249] Yeah, I like that.

[250] They don't really do stuff like that down there.

[251] No. Oh, yeah, it's pretty sweet.

[252] Anyways.

[253] It's surprising that you were a Jew in Orange County.

[254] There weren't a lot of us.

[255] I bet.

[256] We had temple in a church.

[257] What?

[258] And we had Sunday school.

[259] I mean, we had Hebrew school in a Sunday school.

[260] There was just like Jesus posters all over the wall.

[261] They're like, you have an hour and no more.

[262] Yeah.

[263] Barohatta, get it out of the way.

[264] Goodbye.

[265] We don't support what you're doing.

[266] Shalom.

[267] Get the fuck out of here.

[268] Hey, how about take a look at this New Testament.

[269] That's where all the action is.

[270] so this is a podcast about true crime who is let's see who went first at the last show the live show Stephen you didn't I went first oh you're right okay yeah so it's me yeah what everything's becoming a blur I don't know why in what way I just if you had made me guess just now it wouldn't be like a cute for the show thing I had absolutely not only no idea who went first or last, I couldn't remember if it was a live show or a pre -recorded in this room show.

[271] I get it.

[272] Like, I'm not there.

[273] I'm not there either.

[274] I'm far away.

[275] Okay.

[276] Hey, this is exciting.

[277] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[278] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster detectives.

[279] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[280] Who killed Saz?

[281] And we're are they really after Charles?

[282] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[283] This season, murder hits close to home.

[284] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[285] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[286] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[287] Who knows what'll happen once the cameras start to roll?

[288] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Davey, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[289] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[290] Goodbye.

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[292] Absolutely.

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[312] Goodbye.

[313] So this, interestingly enough, I got this murder from one of my last packs of true crime baseball cards that Steven Davis for Christmas last year.

[314] I keep forgetting to look at those.

[315] Here's what I'm doing.

[316] So my new thing Is it spring is I just keep cleaning out drawers in my house Or like containers That's awesome Thank you It feels good I'm also been wiping down walls Which is a really weird Hypnotic thing to do Like with the magic eraser?

[317] Yes Oh my God, I'm obsessed with those Exactly that Because I didn't realize I don't look around In my house that much But there are walls You quoted look around Like open my eyeballs You'd like don't put your glasses on When you go in your house in my own home in any real present way.

[318] I get it.

[319] Because I have two dogs and one is a short to the ground dog.

[320] I didn't see that there are many walls in my house that look like the end of the Blair Witch where there's just a bunch of child hands, like dirty fingerprints that look like people are trying to climb in or out of the house.

[321] Like because he jumps up?

[322] Yeah, like they jump and also the paint on the wall is old and it's really powdery and porous instead of the opposite.

[323] I have that too and it feels like Chalk.

[324] Yes.

[325] You need, I need semi -gloss.

[326] Or I will lose my mind.

[327] Because with this other shit, you walk by and say the word dirt and there's a smudge on your wall.

[328] It is maddening.

[329] So anyway, but I looked, I realized how much I got used to it because I was like, that looks like a crime scene.

[330] Like, it looks weird.

[331] Yeah.

[332] Like somebody tiny tried to pull their way along the wall.

[333] But it's just frank, like running out of one room and curbing and like his little feet go up on the wall to clonking into the wall.

[334] Why am I talking about?

[335] Oh, because so.

[336] So I clean, so on top of those things.

[337] Just me and my free time.

[338] Wow.

[339] Also cleaning out some drawers, found two more packets of the true crime, which I thought I was done with all of them.

[340] So I got super excited.

[341] Open one up.

[342] Found this murder.

[343] I had never heard.

[344] I think I'd heard of it, but just like didn't really know any details or any specifics.

[345] Can we really quickly?

[346] And I just thought of this.

[347] Is that where you got the Papan sisters from like two episodes ago?

[348] Because I want to talk about the gift we got that the girl gave us at one of the live shows.

[349] Oh, that's a good idea.

[350] Should we just do it now?

[351] Yeah.

[352] Okay.

[353] You guys remember the Papan sisters like clawed the eyeballs out of their fucking mistresses?

[354] And this girl brought us a little packet and there was a little necklace in it that said they're not marbles.

[355] Yes.

[356] And there was a little locket that had the Papan sisters photograph in.

[357] And then there was like a handmade, like, clay eyeball.

[358] Yes.

[359] And it was just, like, the most well -thought -out gift, I think.

[360] Like, these three little almost charms in a box that no one would get if you didn't know.

[361] And then we, like, opening it up and looking at them.

[362] Did we each get one or that we had one and it's going up into the podcast booth?

[363] No, we each got one.

[364] Okay.

[365] I can't believe that.

[366] So she made two eyes, two charm, two lockets, to, and I don't think I knew how to express to her like how an eye was of it and she acted like oh you know stupid and it's like no no we were like this is amazing we can't we never get to do that because we kind of feel that way I think people see us saying it a lot but it really is true when somebody is like here's this thing I know you really like yeah and it's like I didn't make it yeah it's unbelievable it's amazing and it was it's just a really good little eyeball too that's sitting there all right crazy no so no problem it's weird that you asked that, though, because the Papan sisters were in this deck.

[367] Oh, my God.

[368] Yes.

[369] What are the chances?

[370] I almost, I should have done it.

[371] I almost sent you a picture when I opened it, and they were like the third people in.

[372] I should have taken the picture and sent it on our constant text thread that me, Stephen and Georgia are just never not on now.

[373] That's our life.

[374] It's photos.

[375] It's fucking quotes.

[376] It's Stephen going, they've asked you seven times you have to answer.

[377] That's our life.

[378] Anyhow.

[379] So I found this here.

[380] and then in my research, it exploded and flowered out into something else, which I just am kind of amazed by.

[381] Okay.

[382] Okay, so here's how we start.

[383] It's the Axeman of New Orleans.

[384] You know that one?

[385] No. Okay.

[386] So he was a serial killer who struck in the city of New Orleans from May 1918 through October of 1919.

[387] He attacked, obviously, using an axe that he found in the home.

[388] He didn't bring anything with it.

[389] time he starts for okay tell me yes so it's the it's the turn of the century so a lot of people have axes laying around the outside of their house and a lot of the places where he attacked um uh well in here he sometimes did it with a straight razor but mostly with an axe oh which one is worse straight razor straight razor's fast yeah i don't think you'd even feel it i think you'd be like why is my neck cold in this one tiny place i don't want i want no i want to be clunked over the head and fucking out.

[390] Okay.

[391] Then you want an axe.

[392] Oh, I guess, yeah, which is worse.

[393] Then we're going to put you in an axe.

[394] Yeah.

[395] Jesus Christ.

[396] Okay.

[397] I think that's what it is because straight razor you would, but you'd bleed out so fast because it's just across the neck.

[398] I don't know if you would.

[399] I mean, you definitely have time to look around panic.

[400] Don't want that.

[401] So what's worse to me is a straight razor.

[402] Okay.

[403] What's worse to use that.

[404] You would just, you want to be out.

[405] Yeah.

[406] Makes sense.

[407] Yeah.

[408] Okay.

[409] So here's what happened.

[410] This guy would use the tools that he found in the home, he would kill the whole family, and he would hang out either before or after they couldn't figure out before or after, oftentimes eating.

[411] So they could have invited him in?

[412] Could have.

[413] Usually the home is found locked when the police get there.

[414] Oh, my God.

[415] And it's never robbed, even though most of the time the people have valuables out very very openly, whatever, never ever any sign of robbery.

[416] And oftentimes mirrors and faces are covered with fabric.

[417] Creepy?

[418] Yes.

[419] Okay.

[420] So it starts on May 22nd, 1918.

[421] So a grocer named Joseph Maggio was sleeping alongside his wife, Catherine, at their home on the corner of Upper Line and Magnolia Streets for people that live in New Orleans.

[422] So, a guy breaks into their house.

[423] He cuts their throats with a straight razor.

[424] And upon leaving, he bashes their heads in with an axe.

[425] Oh, man. So he found both in the house.

[426] So you don't even need to choose.

[427] That's right.

[428] Here's why take that off your plate.

[429] I don't even need to ask you that question.

[430] Don't even worry about it anymore.

[431] Cut that out.

[432] Because you are going to feel both quickly and then, but it's over anyway.

[433] Catherine's throat was cut so deep that her head was nearly severed from her shoulders.

[434] Oh, I hate that.

[435] That's bad.

[436] Okay.

[437] And see, that's the thing is like in those mafia movies and stuff, when the guys get leaned back and get at the barber to get shaved and the barber has the straight razor.

[438] Yeah.

[439] And off times.

[440] Yep.

[441] And if it's a movie, they'll cut their throat for a little reason.

[442] But that, like, bond of trust that you would have to have with that man, because they're doing that to you.

[443] But I feel like a lot of times in movies I've seen the, you know, the guy would lean back to get shaved, close his eyes.

[444] And then the, and then the mafia guy would trade the place.

[445] is with the barber.

[446] So the barber didn't do it.

[447] He was just a neighborhood dude.

[448] Yeah, but he stepped out of his place.

[449] He didn't retain his duty as the barber to fight and defend your life.

[450] He has a family to worry about.

[451] He took the oath.

[452] Okay.

[453] So for a moment, I was like, what?

[454] Oh, fuck.

[455] That's right, the barber's oath.

[456] I mean, there's probably.

[457] Okay, in the apartment, the police found the bloody, the bloody clothes of the murderer.

[458] So he changed into a clean set of clothes.

[459] before he left, which is the, like, also reflects back to him just chilling out, like, committing these terrible murders and then just hanging out.

[460] So they didn't, investigators didn't do a complete search of the premises after the bodies were removed.

[461] So later on, that bloody razor was found on a neighbor's lawn.

[462] And that razor that was used to kill the couple belonged to Andrew Maggio, who's the brother of the, of Joseph, the grocer who was murdered in his bed.

[463] And Andrew owned a barbershop.

[464] They were brothers.

[465] Weird.

[466] They were brothers, yeah.

[467] And those brothers are the people that found Joseph and his wife, Catherine, because they were, like, staying at home and not answering the phone or whatever.

[468] Not doing what they were supposed to be doing.

[469] And the three brothers went over there and found their bodies.

[470] Fuck.

[471] So, his employee, Andrew's employee, Esabon Torres, told the police that Maggio had removed the razor from his shop two days prior to the murder, explaining that he wanted to have a nick honed from the blade.

[472] So the razor was out of the barbershop and had gotten to get fixed somewhere.

[473] So it's just out of the, it's in the mix now, I guess, is what there is the point of that.

[474] Maggio, who lived in the adjoining apartment to his brother's residence, discovered the gruesome scene two hours after the attacks occurred.

[475] And he blamed his failure to hear any noise related to the attacks in the early morning hours on his being drunk because he had returned home the night before from a celebration due to his departure to join the Navy.

[476] Police, however, were surprised that he failed to hear the intruder as he did make a forced entry into the home.

[477] So then Andrew Maggio, the brother of Joseph, became the police chief's prime suspect, but then he was released when investigators were convinced that his alibi held up.

[478] He also told police that there was an unknown man seen lurking near the residence prior to the murders.

[479] Yeah, right.

[480] So then, so that was May 22nd.

[481] About a month later on June 27th, in the early morning hours, Louis Bissumer and his, oh, Lewis, sorry, Louis Bessume, let's say that, because they're all French back there in New Orleans.

[482] Yeah.

[483] Louis Bessime and his mistress Harriet Lowe were attacked in the quarters at the back of his grocery store.

[484] This is grocer number two.

[485] Bessumet was struck with a hatchet above his right temple which resulted in a possible skull fracture and Harriet was hacked over the left ear and found unconscious when the police arrived.

[486] They were discovered shortly after 7 a .m. in the morning by John Zanka who was the bakery truck driver and he came to the grocery to make a delivery and then he found both Louis Besseme and his mistress Harriet Lowe in a puddle of their own blood and the axe which had belonged to Bessamay was found in the bathroom of the apartment so Bessamay so they lived and they he explained to the police that he'd been sleeping he was bashed with a hatchet and then police arrest Louis Obacon, who was a 41 -year -old African -American man, who had been employed in Besseme's store weeks before the attacks.

[487] But there was no evidence that proved that the man was guilty or even related to this, but the police arrested him nonetheless, stating that he had offered conflicting accounts of where he was the night of the murder, the morning of the murder.

[488] so then shortly after that Harriet Lowe stated that she remembered having been attacked by a light -skinned black man but her statement was discounted by the police because of her head injury and because she was the mistress she wasn't an upstanding wife and robbery was said to be the explanation and what Obicon's motive was except for nothing was removed from the Bessume Bessime's home, right?

[489] So essentially what ends up happening is who know?

[490] Can that be hard?

[491] Did you hear it?

[492] I think it'll be like the ghost train just kind of faintly There's a child screeching.

[493] That was like a bone chilling scream though.

[494] Should I throw something off the balcony at them?

[495] Those little fuckers.

[496] Mrs. Harriet Lowe then starts become like sensationalized in the newspaper she can't stop talking to the press she's criticizing the police and then at one point and this is the mistress this is the mistress they got clonked in the head and they keep making a story about it because he basically got caught with his mistress and was still married and this is the story and this is the story not the murder not the murderer um well it's all just being constantly in the paper right the times picklewn sensationalized low in her outspoken nature upon discovering that she was not the wife of bessome but a mistress a charity hospital's discovered the scandal when Bessame asked to be directed to the room of Mrs. Harriet Lowe and was inevitably denied access as no woman by that name was a patient.

[497] So it's like he's not a relative, he can't visit her.

[498] Then his legal wife arrived from Cincinnati in a couple days after the discovery and then, which further inflamed the ongoing drama.

[499] And she was pissed as fuck.

[500] And she was like, I'll kill both y 'all.

[501] Two days later, you take that out, please.

[502] days later.

[503] Besseme was released and the two lead investigators get demoted for unacceptable police work.

[504] Yes.

[505] But then Besseme is arrested in August 1918 as Harriet Lowe who is dying in a charity hospital after a failed heart surgery states that it was Louis who attacked her with the hatchet.

[506] Louis being the brother.

[507] No, no, no, Louis Bessamee, is the grocer, is the guy that also got attacked.

[508] Okay.

[509] She basically was like, he did it, whatever.

[510] All right.

[511] But he was acquitted after 10 minutes, there was no proof, and it was, they knew she was just kind of this lunatic.

[512] Yeah.

[513] Whatever.

[514] At least that's the story that I got.

[515] Okay.

[516] So then August 5th, 1918, a 28 -year -old woman named Mrs. Schneider, who was eight months pregnant, was attacked in the early evening of her hours on her house in Elmira Street.

[517] She woke to find a dark figure standing over here her and was bashed in the face repeatedly.

[518] Her scalp was cut open, her face was completely covered in blood.

[519] She was discovered after midnight by her husband who had been returning from work and she was still alive.

[520] And she claimed that she remembered nothing of the attack.

[521] She gave birth to a healthy baby girl two days after the incident.

[522] Wow.

[523] Which is crazy.

[524] Jesus.

[525] Nothing had been stolen from the home.

[526] even though there was cash left out.

[527] The windows and doors were not forced open and they put together that she was attacked with a lamp on like a bedside table.

[528] Don't fucking attack pregnant people.

[529] I mean, don't attack anyone, but like...

[530] This guy really wants to attack everyone as you will come to find out.

[531] Okay.

[532] So, all right.

[533] So then five days later, on August 10th, Joseph Vermano, who's an elderly man living with his two nieces, The two nieces hear him make a noise in his room in their house that they live in together.

[534] And they go in and discover that their uncle had taken a serious blow to the head.

[535] He is so two huge cuts in his head.

[536] And they see the guy fleeing the scene as they walk in.

[537] But they can't tell if he is thin or fat, if he is dark skinned or light skinned.

[538] They can't really say anything for sure.

[539] They both have conflicting views.

[540] and even though this old man was seriously injured, he could walk to the ambulance, but he still died two days later because of the severe head trauma.

[541] Nothing was stolen.

[542] They found a bloody axe in the backyard, and they discovered that a panel had been chiseled out of the back door, and that's how he was getting into these houses.

[543] He was just, like, going up to the back door and, like, basically just making a little...

[544] Like, prying it open, essentially, like, chiseling a spot open and then going in and unlocking it.

[545] I think someone would hear that.

[546] Yeah, but it's there all asleep.

[547] I like the way you whispered that.

[548] Tip, tip, tip, tap, tip, tap.

[549] I still think you would have heard that.

[550] I mean, you would hope.

[551] You would hope that you would.

[552] These guys didn't.

[553] So then at this point, a man named John Dantonio, who was a retired Italian detective, started making public statements in which he hypothesized about this man who had committed these axed man murders.

[554] And he described the potential killer as an individual of dual personalities who killed without motive and he said that it could very likely be a normal law -bying citizen who was often overcome by an overwhelming desire to kill and he later went on to describe the killer as a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hott.

[555] I just can't even...

[556] Yeah.

[557] Okay, so then on March 10th, 1919, so about six months later, eight months later, Charles' court miglia an immigrant who lived with his wife and baby on the corner of Jefferson and 2nd Street in Gretna, Louisiana, which is a suburb of New Orleans.

[558] There screams coming from their house, and so Grosser Orlando Giordano rutches across the street to investigate and he sees that Charles Cordomiglia, his wife Rosie, and their infant daughter had all been attacked by the unknown intruder.

[559] Rosie stood in the doorway with a head wound clutching her deceased daughter.

[560] So this axe -wielding motherfucker just goes in and kills everybody no matter their age I guess it sounds like you have to be a grocer of some kind that qualifies you or Italian but just kills everybody in the room like in the apartment or in the room.

[561] What the fuck?

[562] It's super crazy.

[563] Okay.

[564] And again, nothing they weren't robbed.

[565] It ain't about that.

[566] Yeah.

[567] Nothing stolen.

[568] The back door was chiseled.

[569] The bloody axe was found on the back porch.

[570] He, like, does it and then just would leave it and walk away.

[571] Oh, my God.

[572] I can't wait to find out who this motherfucker is.

[573] Okay.

[574] So then the police are sent a letter.

[575] Or a letter gets published in the newspaper.

[576] I don't know the order of how it got sent.

[577] But this is what it said.

[578] It said it was postmarked from hell.

[579] March 13th, 1919.

[580] It reads, esteemed mortal, they have never caught me and they never will.

[581] They have never seen me, for I am invisible, even as the ether that surrounds your earth.

[582] I am not a human being, but a spirit and a demon from the hottest hell.

[583] I am what you Orlinians and your foolish policemen call the Axeman.

[584] When I see fit, I shall come and claim other victims.

[585] I alone know whom they shall be.

[586] I shall leave no clue except my bloody axe, be smeared with blood and brains of he whom I have sent below to keep me company.

[587] If you wish you may tell the police to be careful not to rile me. Of course, I am a reasonable spirit.

[588] I have, I take no offense at the way they have conducted their investigations in the past.

[589] In fact, they have been so utterly stupid as to not only amuse me, but his satanic majesty, Francis Joseph, but tell them to beware.

[590] Let them not try to discover what I am, for it were better that they were never born than to occur the wrath of the axe man. I don't think there's any need of such warning, for I feel the police will always dodge me as they have in the past.

[591] They are wise and know how to keep all away from harm.

[592] Undoubtedly, you Orlinians think of me as the most horrible murderer, which I am, but I could be much worse if I wanted to.

[593] If I wished, I could pay a visit to your city every night.

[594] At will, I could slay thousands of your best citizens, for I am in close relationship with the angel of death.

[595] Now, to be exact, at 1215 earthly time, on next Tuesday night, I'm going to pass over New Orleans.

[596] In my infinite mercy, I'm going to make a little proposition to you, people.

[597] Here it is.

[598] I'm very fond of jazz music.

[599] And I swear by all the devils in the nether regions that every person shall be spared in whom a jazz band is in full swing at the time I have just mentioned.

[600] If everyone has a jazz band going, well then, so much the better for you people.

[601] One thing is certain, and that is that some of your people who do not jazz it on Tuesday, What the fuck?

[602] If there be any, we'll get the axe.

[603] Well, as I am cold and crave the warmth of my native Tartarus, and it is about time, I leave your earthly home, I will cease my discourse, hoping thou will publish this, that it may go well with the I have been, am, and will be the worst spirit that ever existed either in fact or realm of fancy the axe man. Jesus, he's chatty.

[604] Oh, my God.

[605] So it reminds me of Richard Ramirez's big speech in court where he's just like, I am the, where it's that thing of like, you know, he's not just a man anymore.

[606] He's like become a God and all that kind of psychotic stuff.

[607] Yes, very psychotic.

[608] But also very biblical.

[609] Oh, yeah.

[610] But also, yeah.

[611] And the whole thing, the whole time I was like, well, the more you talk, the more the more you write and the more information you give, you're just giving away and more clues.

[612] shut the fuck up.

[613] But doesn't it seem like he has a bit of a, like, because isn't that essentially the story of Passover?

[614] Oh, yeah, you'll pass over.

[615] You'll pass over the house if they have jazz music playing.

[616] That's exactly it.

[617] Isn't that why you guys have so much fun on Passover?

[618] We have the best time.

[619] No, I was like, this is written by a fucking, a record label exec who's like, wants his jazz music to be playing.

[620] Plain?

[621] Who do not jazz it on Tuesday night.

[622] Wow.

[623] That's our new, like, Tuesday night club.

[624] whatever bar we gotta jazz it jazz it and nobody likes jazz so everyone's like a little unhappy yeah but it's like well we'll kill you if you don't come we just got to do it just get through these next 15 minutes well apparently so everyone jazzed it on that tuesday night and no one was killed shut up yeah it actually worked excuse me um but then of course as it always as it always does it always but then's there's so many but thens august 10th steve boca a grocer is attacked in his bedroom as he sleeps.

[625] Wait, is he really purposely getting grocers?

[626] Well, yes, because they all are they Man, what a bummer.

[627] I mean, it's so specific, but it's they say grocer here, but I also think it means people who keep stores.

[628] So it's like sometimes it's a guy that has like a grocery store in a bar type of place.

[629] Or pharmacy or some kind of thing.

[630] Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean like the big thing of lettuce that's on the sidewalk per se.

[631] A green grocer, they used to call them?

[632] Right.

[633] The green grocer.

[634] But there, it is people that owns stores.

[635] Weird.

[636] Super fucking weird.

[637] Okay, so then he wakes in the night, finds a dark figure looming over him.

[638] When he regains consciousness, he runs into the street, finds that his head has been cracked open.

[639] What if you found that?

[640] I found my head to be cracked open.

[641] You know what, I need help here.

[642] So he goes to his neighbor's house collapses.

[643] Then the neighbor calls.

[644] a place.

[645] Nothing's taken from the home.

[646] A panel on the back door had been chiseled away.

[647] Boker recovered from his injuries, but he had, again, no memory.

[648] And that's every single person that survives knows nothing about what happened.

[649] Head injuries.

[650] September 13th, it happens again.

[651] Sarah Lawman was attacked on the night of September 13th.

[652] Her neighbors came to check on her because she lived alone, and they hadn't seen her in a while.

[653] They broke into her house when she didn't answer and discovered the 19 -year -old lying unconscious on her bed, suffering from a severe head injury, missing several teeth.

[654] Ooh, this guy goes straight for the fucking...

[655] Right to the face.

[656] Noggin.

[657] Yeah, they say that all of the injuries were neck, head, and only a couple had on their defensive wounds on their arms.

[658] Most of him, he would just get in there and chop very precisely.

[659] Weird.

[660] And sometimes he would obliterate the face of the man. And sometimes he would rape the vibe.

[661] All right.

[662] Oh.

[663] but here so bloody axe is discovered on the front lawn she recovered from her injuries couldn't remember anything October 27th Mike Pepitone is attacked did you ask any Pepitone if they're put in a call he won't talk to me that would be amazing I've never heard that last name before anywhere I know I know so he sees his wife is awakened by a noise and walks into the best bedroom, walks to the bedroom door just as a large axe -wielding man is fleeing the scene.

[664] Oh, my God.

[665] Mike had been struck in the head, was covered in his own blood, blood spreader, covered the majority of the room.

[666] But Mrs. Pepitone is unable to explain any of the killers, describe the killer in any way.

[667] I did read something that said Mrs. Pepiton, Mrs. Pepitone went on to shoot the man she believed was standing there.

[668] So this is a different story than the end of this one, which is.

[669] basically she didn't know and she had nothing to say to the cops.

[670] There's another story that said Mrs. Pepitone knew who it was and after her husband like a couple weeks after the murder she shot the man in the street and then the murder stopped happening.

[671] That's right now.

[672] Who knows?

[673] And then she herself was convicted of murder and was in jail for 10 years.

[674] What the shit?

[675] Who knows about any of that?

[676] So, okay, so that's the, those are, that's the full realm of the, um, of the Axeman of New Orleans murders.

[677] Okay.

[678] But then I watched a documentary on the YouTube that was actually very good, although it seemed very like kind of homemade, self -produced, the guy that was narrating it, I don't think his British accent was his original accent of life.

[679] It had a little bit of this feel to it.

[680] It was, what's the word when you try too hard?

[681] You're an actor?

[682] Yep.

[683] It was how did it a real actor feel?

[684] Effect.

[685] Effected?

[686] Yeah.

[687] But it's really good, good information.

[688] I could be totally wrong about the accent.

[689] Also, it doesn't mean it's not real.

[690] Good.

[691] That's right.

[692] But here's the thing.

[693] Every once in a while in this, it's like a 50 -minute documentary.

[694] And everyone's while when he's talking about a different fact, they'll just be like a sound effect of screaming.

[695] so it's just like almost like haunted house style like our podcast is with the children screaming outside I guess it is effective um so it's not you know affected and effective it's affecting it's affected okay this documentary basically theorizes that the axeman of New Orleans actually was killing for long before the New Orleans attacks and after and he so they just start saying because Because from 1879 to 1922 in America, there were lots and lots of axe murderers where a guy broke into the house by chisling the back door.

[696] Chisling.

[697] In the middle of the night, killing an entire family, not robbing them, using their own axe to do it with, eating before or after, hanging out in the house.

[698] Usually a farmer, usually it's like a whole family and it's kind of out in the middle of nowhere where it takes a couple days.

[699] Rural?

[700] brutal as fuck no rural brutal brutal brutal brutal the brutal rural murderers yeah okay so and this is just so the guys just basically saying these aren't this is so long ago and this is like pre any of the like police procedural knowledge that we have now there also could be more and people just haven't connected the fact but okay so in 1879 an elderly couple this is somewhere in Georgia.

[701] It's a rainy night.

[702] They're attacked, almost decapitated.

[703] And when the police investigate the crime scene, they find that someone had been hiding an upstairs room for a minimum of two days because there was smoke, cigarettes, and human feces in there.

[704] So someone had snuck into their house, hung out, and then waited for the night time.

[705] So I always want to live in a small house.

[706] I don't want there to be rooms that just don't get looked into.

[707] Yeah, no. no you could also you could also like release you know I don't know some kind of super dangerous animal every night just to take a run around the house cool yeah I was gonna say cobra but that'd be too scary how about a siami um cross -eyed siamese yeah that he's very intimidating um so this is it was their axe the axe was left in the fireplace there was no robbery even though there was a stash of silver on like the kitchen counter.

[708] Five years later, in 1884 in Austin, Texas, a woman named Molly Smith is attacked in her bed with an axe, and then the attacker pulls her outside into the backyard, rapes her, and murders her outside.

[709] Weird.

[710] Several months later, Eliza Shelley is also murdered with an axe.

[711] Her head is split open.

[712] And on that one, the police noted that none of the dogs in the dogs in the house.

[713] the neighborhood barked and there were dogs that were tied up right next door and they didn't bark or have a reaction of any kind of the entire night so it was a silent night on both of those nights weird and that freaked the police out really bad because it's like usually you just get a little something people always that that that note always freaks me out because it's clearly someone that the dogs know yes and it's been doing kind of doing their groundwork yeah to like make sure the dogs are like he's going to throw them food or something yeah he's he's he's so four more people are killed in this same way slaughtered in their beds with their own acts um no robbery um the weapons left in the house uh until christmas eve of 1885 a couple is attacked and um the bloodhound could couldn't get a scent like they they gave the the bloodhound a thing to smell that was from the axe left behind and they couldn't get a scent and they were like the best bloodhounds around or whatever so again it was that thing where the cops were like maybe this is a demon like whatever yeah or guess this was before so they would be like oh maybe some demon's going to write us a letter in 15 years right um oh also here in like a couple other places they found bare footprints in the blood oh weird in 1897 this is 12 years later now, up in Paradise Ridge, Tennessee, the aid family, a neighbor sees the aid family farmhouse on fire.

[714] And so he goes over to see what's happening.

[715] And not only is their house on fire, but their barn and a couple of other buildings on their ranch.

[716] And when they put the fire out, they find the entire family has been murdered with an axe.

[717] The parents, their daughter who was in her 20s, the son who was 13, and a neighbor girl who was I don't think that's him.

[718] What's that?

[719] I don't think it's him.

[720] That one.

[721] The killer ate either before or after the killing.

[722] He hung out in the house.

[723] And the neighbor girl, they think the way they traced it, she got away, and he caught her, killed her, and threw her back into the burning house.

[724] Oh, my God.

[725] 14 years after that in, I cannot see what that says.

[726] Something Oregon near Portland.

[727] It's near Portland.

[728] The Hill family is murdered in their house.

[729] The children are murdered in their beds.

[730] It's everything is exactly the same.

[731] So it's just basically they've pulled all these crimes where like an entire family, no robbery, axe, head wounds, all of it.

[732] A month after that, in Rainier, Washington, Archie Cable and his wife are murdered in their bed with an axe.

[733] Oh, my God.

[734] In 1911, in Colorado Springs.

[735] a man walks into the home of Alice Buncheon, I think it says, and murdered her and her six -year -old daughter and her three -year -old son.

[736] And when her sister went to visit, she found the bodies.

[737] She ran outside and screamed for help, and everybody in the neighborhood came running except the family that lived next door, the Wayne family.

[738] And so they went to check on them, and the wife, husband, and one -year -old baby had all been slaughtered in their beds.

[739] and then the beds were made up after them like the killer had killed them and then tucked them back into bed.

[740] Oh, that's horrifying.

[741] So it looked like they were sleeping.

[742] Both of those cases, no robbery.

[743] Both houses were locked from the inside.

[744] 13 days after that in Monmouth, Illinois, the first Presbyterian church is not open for the service on Sunday, so everybody calls the caretaker who doesn't answer.

[745] They go to the caretaker's house.

[746] And he, sorry, Mr. Danson is the caretaker.

[747] He, his wife, and their teen daughter are murdered in their beds.

[748] There's no robbery.

[749] Two weeks later in Ellsworth, Kansas, Ellsworth, Kansas.

[750] The Sherman family hasn't been seen for a while.

[751] A neighbor that's worried about them because they weren't answering their phone goes to visit all five of the Sherman's have been murdered with an axe in their house.

[752] the police found the axe and the phone was wrapped with a piece of someone's clothing was wrapped around the phone and the police later realized that it was probably because the neighbor was calling over and over and so he wrapped that so he wouldn't have to hear the phone ring to silence it creepy yes two weeks later in Mount Pleasant Iowa Mr. J .B. Jordan leaves for work he doesn't lock the kitchen door.

[753] Their eldest son is upstairs.

[754] He hears his mother screamed.

[755] He runs downstairs and finds that she's been attacked in her bed with an axe.

[756] She has an injury to her head, but she survives.

[757] But if remembers nothing, nothing is, they're not robbed and nobody sees anything.

[758] Eight months later in Paola, Kansas, a young couple in their early 20s, the Hudson's, hadn't been seen.

[759] Neighbors checked.

[760] They're murdered in their bed.

[761] and that night a family in the same town wakes to the sound of the lamp crashing to the floor and the father goes downstairs to see what it is and he sees a man leaving their house.

[762] Less than a week later and I think I'm pronouncing this right in Velesca, Iowa it's the Velasca axe murderers.

[763] Remember there was somebody that brought us a bag of stuff, from the Velasca.

[764] I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right.

[765] Do you know, Steven?

[766] Valesca.

[767] Okay.

[768] So this is the most, this is one of the most famous axe murder cases, but I didn't realize that they're, the theory is basically, this is one guy.

[769] Because this, the Valesca Axe murder house, so it's the Moore family.

[770] Was it like the murders from the Truman Capote?

[771] Similar.

[772] Okay.

[773] Yeah.

[774] where they just killed that family for no reason.

[775] But this is, it's their whole family.

[776] They'd gotten back from church, and then nobody saw them for days.

[777] But they did see smoke coming out of the chimney, but they just didn't see them out on their farm doing their chores.

[778] So the neighbors were just like, that's weird.

[779] So after three days, they go check.

[780] The entire family has been murdered with axes in their beds, plus two little girls who were there for a sleepover that were neighbor girls.

[781] So eight people were, murdered in this house with axes and he they found that the man um had been hiding at every mirror in the house was covered with a piece of clothing um nothing had been stolen uh the killer um definitely spent at least two days there lots of like had made food left a bunch of stuff out um and he they found proof again that he had waited in the attic for two days until night time so he could come out and surprise them and murder them.

[782] And then in 1914, in Blue Island, Illinois, a family is found, this is two years later, a family is found murdered in their bed, and then that brings us up to then 1918 in New Orleans.

[783] And then, four years later, in Germany, so then the 1990 murder Christmas Eve was the last one.

[784] Right.

[785] The pepottone.

[786] Where the chicks shot at him.

[787] Right.

[788] Supposedly.

[789] Shot and killed somebody, and then the murders ended.

[790] Right.

[791] But in Germany, there was a farmer who saw a set of footprints this story in the snow leading to his house, but not away.

[792] This is the craziest story.

[793] He searches his whole house top to bottom, doesn't find anything, goes to bed that night, either that night or the next night, and then he's murdered.

[794] He and his family are murdered, and it's the exact same thing.

[795] And that guy hides in their house, I think, right?

[796] Yes.

[797] He's he's hidden their house but they couldn't find where all of the bodies in this were covered with sheets or some of them are out in the barn so they were covered in piles of hay um they uh he stayed through the weekend and there was no robbery so it was exactly the same memo as all of these other ones so basically so it's just saying it could be this german immigrant because on um and the Voleska Axe Murder House, there was a note written in German under the table that was left behind.

[798] And there was another, one of the women that survived in the earlier ones heard him speaking in German.

[799] So there was a theory that he was a German immigrant who kind of did this for, you know, what it seems like over 20, maybe 30 years, then takes a boat back to Germany, he's going to chill out, and then four years later he can't wait.

[800] anymore and he does it again or has been doing it and they just never got yes i just wonder if in town there was anyone who had like been away if they had known to ask that um you mean in germany yeah yeah yeah it's it's super crazy it's so extreme so then this is the best part but i don't uh i don't get how it connects it connects in this documentary perfectly because the guy is going like and it's like in 1994 but it's super awesome anyway even if it's not real but so basically a guy they're they have an old um uh navy ship that they're basically parting out because it's like done for it's retired or whatever they call that and so this guy was his job to go through this navy ship before they take it all apart and take pictures and record and basically do a report on what the status of the ship was and give an inventory so they know what should be saved and salvaged.

[801] That's creepy to begin with.

[802] Can you imagine being alone on a fucking Navy ship?

[803] Why alone?

[804] And also there was some extra things where I was like, we're gilding the lily here where it was like because he, you know, the whole ship was off so he had a flashlight.

[805] But he would turn the flashlight off and it was said to be haunted.

[806] I mean, yeah, his camera, yeah.

[807] But even still, when he turned all the pictures in and it was hundreds and hundreds of pictures he got a frantic call back from like headquarters or whatever and they were like who's the old man with the axe in that picture so then they send him the picture oh my god are you going to show me?

[808] Yeah right shut the fuck up it's real oh my god I'm going to cry I'm going to cry I'm going to cry let me see here show Stephen I dropped the phone that is no I'm going to Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[809] Oh, my God, Stephen, don't look.

[810] That's the creepiest, scariest thing I've ever seen in my life.

[811] Chills.

[812] What do people, like, look up?

[813] Axeman Navy ship.

[814] That's exactly what I put it.

[815] Old man axe.

[816] Oh, and look, there's a close up.

[817] I don't want it.

[818] For everybody else, we'll post this, but it's basically, you know when you do, you see like a ghost investigator show, and they do a thing where they'll circle something in a picture and you're like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

[819] This is clearly a man on this ship with an axe in his hand.

[820] The close -up is less convincing to me, honestly.

[821] Like, it looks like the guy's wearing, like, a mask of, like, that commercial with the, like, an old man mask.

[822] The Six Flags guy that dances around.

[823] But far away, and it's definitely an axe, but far away.

[824] And, like, yeah, it looks like something you wouldn't notice until you saw the photo kind of a thing.

[825] Well, also, I love the idea...

[826] Too close?

[827] I love the idea of this old guy is so good at, like, evading the police and getting away with stuff that he knows to, like, oh, I'm just going to go live on this old ship that they haven't parted out yet.

[828] Like, that idea does link together well for me. And then they, at the end of this documentary, I highly recommend.

[829] And again, you just go put in the Axeman of New Orleans and it'll come up.

[830] It's the only one that's like 50.

[831] minutes long.

[832] But they start listing all of the other unrelated, unsolved, but full family axe murders where there was no robbery and basically all of those qualifiers that I kept repeating.

[833] And there were probably like eight of them additionally that were just in random cities.

[834] And what I would love to do, and I'm sure somebody has, because they said somewhere it said they were all near railroad tracks.

[835] So this guy could have just been hobo style.

[836] hopping on a train and just going because he really does clearly is just a drifter that's going from place to place and what a perfect way to be a murderer is just you do it jump on a train you were never there I'm wondering if there's some like you know a German fairy tale that has to do with like all the weird shit that was in that letter yeah you know like he mentioned specific places that I'd never heard of like in regards to hell so I wonder if like there's some connection there yeah I wonder if they've done any kind of like the studying Jack the Ripper style studying about it yeah yeah yeah I had no idea it was this like I found that to be so fascinating because because it is one of those things like the Velasca Axe Murder House and that whole it's so crazy that it is a standalone murder story yeah but it could possibly be connected to this other like just a crazy serial killer that if it is this guy he killed 61 people of the cases they know about.

[837] As a standalone murder, it's like, well, it's someone they knew or that had a beef with someone or that, you know, they were partners with in business and so they wanted it to himself.

[838] But if it's not, then that's even then that makes almost more sense.

[839] Yeah.

[840] It's just the house by the railroad tracks where he felt like jumping off.

[841] Sure.

[842] Like the first place.

[843] Needed food.

[844] Well, that's kind of interesting.

[845] I'm sure there's plenty more other people know.

[846] That photo is fucking horrifying.

[847] Get ready to enjoy it.

[848] All right.

[849] People of New Orleans.

[850] People of New Orleans.

[851] Okay.

[852] We're talking about lights being depressing.

[853] Randomly.

[854] We had a pause.

[855] Yeah.

[856] We have to have a human break.

[857] And I made Stephen turn the kitchen lights on because it's dusk, which depresses the shit out of me. Yeah, I was saying that it's, you know what gets me is, I have a friend who has that same thing where he has a whole system if he has to go around that house and turn everything on when the sun is beginning to go down.

[858] It's not even like when it's down.

[859] I have the opposite thing of when I get up in the morning, if there's a lamp on, it, it's that thing of why are we even doing this feeling where it's like no one turned the lights off last night or like no one's minding the shop feeling that makes me really mad.

[860] It never got shut down.

[861] Yes.

[862] I feel the same way about when I wake up and come out and the house is messy.

[863] What's funny about that, I was talking about that, is when therapy the other day, we kind of paste it, like, piece it together that that might be why, between like three o 'clock and seven o 'clock, I always want to go have a drink and, like, have a happy hour, like, pick vince up from work and we go have a drink and it's like, I want to make this part a celebration because, but then after that I'm fine.

[864] Can I just put out a suggestion that you've probably already talked about?

[865] Yeah, what?

[866] is, but three o 'clock and a seven o 'clock is the, uh, um, latchkey time where you're home by yourself after school before your, anybody gets home for work.

[867] That's exactly it.

[868] Yeah.

[869] It's a rough time.

[870] Yeah.

[871] It's total latch key.

[872] Watch key shit.

[873] Yeah.

[874] That, to me, that time is like three to seven is all about, um, watching TV.

[875] I'm not interested in watching, but we won't not watch TV.

[876] Like if there's nothing on, back in the time where there was times where there was nothing on, but we'd still just sit there and force ourselves.

[877] Watch, like, Star Trek, yes.

[878] It was always reruns of Star Trek, which my sister and I didn't like.

[879] But we were like, well, there's nothing else on.

[880] We have to watch it.

[881] And now I'm like an expert because of that.

[882] I've seen all of them 15 times.

[883] Yeah, I've seen a fucking shit ton.

[884] Next generation?

[885] Oh, every episode I've seen.

[886] It seems like everything in adult life is just ways of kind of trying to give the child at that time a little bit of a bottle.

[887] Shut the fuck up.

[888] I mean.

[889] Well, that's why I like drinking booze.

[890] or anything.

[891] It's like everybody has a thing, but you're just kind of, it's almost like you're trying to go back and be like, somebody should have been here and given you this.

[892] Oh.

[893] Somebody should have like, you know what I mean?

[894] Somebody should have come and rubbed your back a little bit and made you actual food.

[895] That's my, that's a lot of my therapy is, yeah.

[896] Samezers.

[897] Yeah, it's the shit that like, your fucking patterns that you keep repeating until adulthood in some weird way that I'm now trying to like, you're now doing your best to fucking break.

[898] yeah but it feels fraudulent it doesn't it feels like everything's gonna fall apart apart all the time hanging by a string all the time and that's why we like podcasts welcome murder because that's true that is true that's fucking preaching it truth okay speaking of hey Karen are you ready for a family annihilator.

[899] Yes.

[900] Ready for William Bradford Bishop.

[901] Ooh.

[902] Okay.

[903] Oh, Bill Bishop from down the street.

[904] Billy Bish.

[905] Bill Bish.

[906] Bill Bish.

[907] Did I say that right?

[908] No. Bill Bradbish.

[909] Okay.

[910] Anyways.

[911] On the morning of March 1st, 1976 in good old Bethesda, Maryland, William Bradford Bishop, who's a 39 -year -old Yale graduate.

[912] Oh, my God.

[913] Say that with more disdain in your Did I say it?

[914] Yagle graduate.

[915] I didn't even do that on purpose.

[916] College.

[917] You think you're better than me?

[918] Fucking college?

[919] You're not better than me because you fucking went to school with Ivy on it.

[920] Oh, you're a Yaleie graduate.

[921] And United States Foreign Service Officer learns that he is not getting the promotion that he expected.

[922] Uh -oh.

[923] Red flag.

[924] He tells his secretary, he might be getting the flu and leaves work.

[925] He withdraws foreign.

[926] $400 from his bank, drives to Sears, and buys a gas can and a sledgehammer.

[927] Uh -oh.

[928] A sledgehammer or a ball peen hammer, which you've mentioned before, and I had no idea what it was.

[929] The sledge hammers are big, and bald peen hammers are normal hammers, I believe.

[930] I think you're right, so I don't know how those could have been.

[931] Anyways, he also buys a shovel and a pitchfork.

[932] Then he heads home to his wife, mother, and three children.

[933] Now, if you're working at that Sears, you're like, I think this guy might be starting his own hardware store.

[934] using our stuff.

[935] Going home to garden?

[936] How about, he won't just mark his name down.

[937] Make a list.

[938] Yeah.

[939] Just follow him home and make sure that he doesn't.

[940] Someone do something.

[941] Annihilate.

[942] The next day.

[943] So the next, he does all that shit.

[944] The next day, about a six -hour drive from Bethesda and about five miles from Columbia, North Carolina, in a wooded swampy forest area, a forest rangers dispatched to an area where smoke is rising from the trees.

[945] There he finds five burned bodies.

[946] The burned bodies aren't identified for a week until a neighbor of the bishops calls the police worried that he hasn't seen the family in a week.

[947] When the police enter the Bradford home, they find a blood bath with spattered blood on the floors and walls and the children's room is covered ceiling to floor in blood.

[948] And it's then that the shovel from the scene of the burning bodies is traced back to a hard work store in Bethesda and the police make the connection.

[949] You mean a Sears?

[950] No, sorry.

[951] Just kidding.

[952] A Sears Roebuck's and company at the time.

[953] We're going to be specific.

[954] It is actually technically a Sears Roebuck in 1976.

[955] You know what I'm saying?

[956] I mean, yeah.

[957] All right.

[958] So police think that Bradford killed his wife, who was his high school sweetheart Annette first.

[959] followed by his mother, Lobella, who was returning home from walking the family's golden retriever, Leo.

[960] Spoiler alert.

[961] Leo's okay.

[962] Oh, good, okay.

[963] Mom and wife so far, dead.

[964] It's very much dead.

[965] Bludgeoned.

[966] Bad, bad, bad.

[967] Bludgeoned as fuck.

[968] Then he kills his three boys.

[969] 15 -year -old Brad, 10 -year -old Brunton, and five -year -old Jeffrey were killed while they slept in their beds in an upstairs bedroom.

[970] All of them bludgeoned.

[971] Here's a fucking horrifying part.

[972] the detective says that in his 12 years as an officer he it was one of the worst it was the worst crime scene he had ever observed and he notes that there were hammer marks on the ceiling above the top bunk bed in one of the boys bedrooms which told how many times and how viciously bishop had struck his son so in the like back and then blow he fucking hits the ceiling yeah dude yeah so a massive manhunt ensues for Bishop, the family station wagon that was used to transport the bodies to be burned was found abandoned in a parking lot hundreds of miles west from where the bodies were found.

[973] And Bishop's also identified by the clerk of a sporting goods store in Jacksonville, North Carolina, using his credit card to purchase Conver shoes the same day that the bodies were found.

[974] Was he coming to Silver Lake?

[975] I know.

[976] I added that because I just thought it was so.

[977] Oh, that detail.

[978] I thought you Not like we were making the same joke.

[979] Oh, my God.

[980] Yeah, that's super.

[981] Some articles said tennis shoes, and I'm like, no, converse.

[982] That's like a specific thing, because we've all owned them.

[983] Yeah, that's right.

[984] And also, it sounds like, because he was, did you say he was in the Navy or something before?

[985] He was in some kind of military guy?

[986] So he's trying to play a different character, right?

[987] Sure, he's blending in.

[988] Hippy shit.

[989] He's going to bring his hippie shit to the West Coast.

[990] Yeah, or be a skater.

[991] You know what I mean?

[992] And that man turned out to be.

[993] Yeah.

[994] Who's a skate?

[995] I can't think of anyone because I don't know.

[996] Tony.

[997] I was going to say Peralta.

[998] Oh.

[999] Stacey Peralta.

[1000] Shit.

[1001] There we go.

[1002] Steven.

[1003] I'm a poser.

[1004] I'm a poser.

[1005] I'm a poser.

[1006] You're not posing to be a fucking skating.

[1007] I'm trying to make people think I skate.

[1008] Hey, bro.

[1009] Okay.

[1010] Da -da -da -da -da -da.

[1011] It's calm wear shoes.

[1012] Same day the bodies are found.

[1013] And it's also said that he had the dog on a leash with him.

[1014] So he didn't.

[1015] And when I first read this whole article, it was that the dog was killed, too.

[1016] And I'm like, people are not going to fucking like that.

[1017] Right.

[1018] But the dog is on a leash and he seems to be okay.

[1019] Anyways, after that, what are you thinking?

[1020] I just was, it's just, do you think people do that because it's, the animal is the most innocent in the, almost like the innocence food pyramid of like, it can't talk, it can't do anything for itself.

[1021] Like, it's not necessary at that point.

[1022] I mean, listen, we're talking about a five -year -old child too, but.

[1023] No, it's, but that's just it.

[1024] It's like a tiny child being.

[1025] murdered by its own parent is horrifying.

[1026] I do you think that stuns people into silence, but then if you say the words golden retriever, people are like, what the fuck?

[1027] Like, why would you?

[1028] You can even just approach it.

[1029] Like, you don't even want to talk about the five -year -olds.

[1030] It somehow makes it seem like they're even more of a monster, but there's this weird bit of humanity that he kept, he didn't even leave the dog in the house.

[1031] He, like, brought the dog with him.

[1032] Yeah, it's weird.

[1033] Kurt, I think it's Kurt Bromler has a joke about how Hitler had a dog.

[1034] That doesn't seem right.

[1035] Not that Kurt Bromel, but that Hitler would have a dog.

[1036] Like, I get that.

[1037] That dog probably loved him.

[1038] I mean, well, I bet you as a German shepherd.

[1039] That's true.

[1040] Fucking thanks.

[1041] I love German Shepherd.

[1042] I do too.

[1043] I do too.

[1044] I do too.

[1045] My mom hates them because of Germany.

[1046] Anyways.

[1047] Bo, blah, blah, go's cold.

[1048] Okay, after that, citing, the trail goes cold.

[1049] And since Bishop spoke, languages fluently, knew how to fly a plane, and had lived throughout the world and possibly had fake IDs because of his work at the State Department.

[1050] Finding him didn't look good.

[1051] Law enforcement tried to get his psychotherapy records from his shrink, who Bishop had been seeing once or twice a week for five years, but the shrink refused saying, you know, a doctor patient privilege.

[1052] But it's been said that the doctor was so shaken by Bishop's crime that he quit his practice, which is, can you imagine not spotting?

[1053] that for five fucking years or having spotted it and not done anything about it.

[1054] That's horrible.

[1055] What's worse?

[1056] I think, yeah.

[1057] Yeah, not having done anything about it.

[1058] Like thinking that you were wrong or doubting yourself.

[1059] Or something.

[1060] Or just being like, am I?

[1061] But after five years, I feel like five years of, um, you just have to be, if you can manipulate a psychotherapist for five years, you're, you're some fucking.

[1062] craziness.

[1063] Yeah.

[1064] Also, if he was a military man, I bet you he wasn't all that forthcoming.

[1065] Isn't that kind of a personality trait of you're not really supposed to be that way in the military?

[1066] Well, that's funny that you say that because I read something that said that if you were in whatever rank he was in and you were going to psychotherapy, that was grounds for dismissal.

[1067] Oh, shit.

[1068] So on top of that, he probably wasn't, didn't also want to be like, yeah, and I want to murder my family.

[1069] So it couldn't even get out that he was in there.

[1070] Whoa.

[1071] So that's so fucked up.

[1072] It's so fucked up.

[1073] Oh, so getting help for being in, like, a conflict -based business.

[1074] Right.

[1075] Where you could have PTSD for whatever reason.

[1076] You're not, you cannot be in therapy.

[1077] Or you're traveling the fucking world and your family's home and there's, it's rough at home, or you have money issues.

[1078] I can't be like that anymore.

[1079] Or you got left at home between three and seven every goddamn day of the week.

[1080] Like you were just some sort of.

[1081] And you had no idea what time your parents were coming home and you were sick of peanut butter sandwiches.

[1082] you would eat in so much toast that you felt sick.

[1083] Oh, toast.

[1084] God, we ate a lot of toast.

[1085] We ate so much toast.

[1086] So much cheese toasted this day is one of my favorite things, but of course my brother would eat all the fucking cheese in the house.

[1087] So it would be peanut butter toast.

[1088] We would do, uh, my sister got really into making cassidias, but she wouldn't make me one.

[1089] That was, you know, anything she could pull away, anything she could hold over me. But cassidy at that point was a tortilla with a slice of American cheese in the microwave for a minute.

[1090] Yes.

[1091] And then crunched closed.

[1092] Yeah, she would get fancy and put it in a pan.

[1093] Oh, she thinks she's fucking Julia Childs.

[1094] She thought she was going for it.

[1095] And I was like, clear the area.

[1096] I'm trying to butter some crackers.

[1097] Like, basically all we were trying to do.

[1098] Buttered crackers.

[1099] I love it.

[1100] Stacking up buttered crackers and then drinking seven up and it's just basically like carbot intake.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] I was like, pardon me, I'm planning.

[1103] I'm trying to get fat for junior high.

[1104] Oh my God.

[1105] Clear the area.

[1106] I have so many feelings.

[1107] Yeah.

[1108] Right now.

[1109] Should we go back to the easier ones, but just family annihilators.

[1110] Yeah.

[1111] All right.

[1112] So on March 19th, 1976, a grand jury indicts Bishop on five counts of first -degree murder.

[1113] But to this day, Karen, Bishop has never been found.

[1114] Whoa.

[1115] Yep.

[1116] So there's this photo of him from when he was young that they all show, and he looks a little bit like Lee Harvey Oswald meets John Belushi, if you can picture that.

[1117] Oh.

[1118] It's weird.

[1119] Like, you're kind of like, he's kind of.

[1120] kind of hot.

[1121] But then he has this weird, like, smug, like, tight, closed smile that looks creepy since you know what he did.

[1122] And then they made one of those busts of him of like what he would look like if he were older.

[1123] And it's super creepy as well.

[1124] And he, I'm sure that he's Hugh Hefner.

[1125] Like, it's Hugh Haffner.

[1126] It's so, it's Hugh Puckin 'Hapner.

[1127] Is the bust?

[1128] The future age.

[1129] Can you pick, can you pull that up?

[1130] It's a William Bradford Bishop bust.

[1131] It's just a cover of Playboy magazine.

[1132] Stephen, no. Not a few half -nors picture He just pulls that up All right So there have been three credible sightings of Bishop One was in July 1978 A Swedish woman who had worked with Bishop Before the murders Said she spotted him Stevens got it Right?

[1133] Am I right?

[1134] I mean Oh no Let me say it?

[1135] It's totally It looks like Is it Frank Langella?

[1136] No He's the guy that always plays like a He's just like hey Kid.

[1137] Hous.

[1138] He's Hugh Hefner, right?

[1139] Yes.

[1140] He looks exactly like Hugh Hewner.

[1141] He's missing like the bathrobe.

[1142] And that's it.

[1143] Yeah, he's like if Hugh Hefner had a trucker brother.

[1144] Yeah.

[1145] That's what that guy looks like.

[1146] Cravee.

[1147] Okay.

[1148] July 1978, Swedish women who had worked with him prior to the murders.

[1149] She said she spotted him twice in a public park in Stockholm, Sweden, when in a span of a week.

[1150] And she stated that she was absolutely certain that it was bishop.

[1151] Then in, and this is interesting.

[1152] because it's all people who knew him, you know.

[1153] So in July 1979, he was reported to have been seen by a former U .S. State Department colleague in a restroom in Sorrento, Italy.

[1154] The colleague greeted him who had, who said, and he said he was bearded.

[1155] He had personally believed to be bishop, eye to eye, and he asked the man impulsively, hey, you're Brad Bishop, aren't you?

[1156] The man panicked suddenly, responding in a distinctly American accent saying, oh, God, no. And then he ran swiftly out of the restroom and fled.

[1157] But he started shaking and panicking when he asked him.

[1158] This is all, like, kind of confirm that these could actually be sightings.

[1159] It wasn't just, like, randest out.

[1160] Like, hokey bullshit.

[1161] On September 19th.

[1162] It was a little, it was kind of corny.

[1163] I mean, yeah.

[1164] It wasn't on solved mysteries, but it was, you know.

[1165] All right.

[1166] On September 19th, I'm sure this was on Unselfed Mysteries, too.

[1167] On September 19th, 1994 in Basel, Switzerland, a neighbor who had known a bishop and his family in Bethesely, She reports that she had seen Bishop from a few feet away while on vacation.

[1168] The neighbor described Bishop as well -groomed.

[1169] So all people who knew him well enough to recognize him.

[1170] Then, and I thought this was so exciting, a John Doe, who was struck by a car while walking down a highway in 1981, who was a person who appeared to be homeless, ended up getting exhumed after a local resident thought that the bust of Bishop looked like this dough.

[1171] and I fucking lost my line.

[1172] It looks so much like him that you are sure it's him and it's fucking not.

[1173] But I think they fucked up the DNA test because it's fucking him.

[1174] Wow.

[1175] Yeah.

[1176] Look up the dead body.

[1177] It doesn't match.

[1178] Okay.

[1179] There's also, of course, been talk of Bishop being a victim of the MK Ultra mind control experience by the CIA that went awry causing him to kill his family, which is like, okay.

[1180] Is that the right time frame?

[1181] The 60, 70s?

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] I guess so, yeah.

[1184] I feel like they dosed a lot of people on acid back then.

[1185] Right?

[1186] I think so.

[1187] But that's so close to the 80s.

[1188] I feel like it was shut down by then.

[1189] But I mean, look, if people theorize that it's because it wasn't.

[1190] And also it was a secret government thing.

[1191] I mean, Karen, it's probably still going on.

[1192] It's to this day.

[1193] Stephen.

[1194] Stephen is an M .K. Ultra something.

[1195] I knew it.

[1196] That's what it is.

[1197] I'm so late what it is.

[1198] You're like, and his mustache is a fucking recording device.

[1199] It's like a, no, because no matter how much we make fun of it, he won't shave it.

[1200] So up in there.

[1201] He fucking sets the two hugest microphones up every time, but his mustache is the recording device.

[1202] These are all fake.

[1203] You caught me. You should hear the shit we say when it's not recording and the shit we actually make him edit out.

[1204] That's the like, we are Russian operative spies.

[1205] It's true.

[1206] Oh.

[1207] Well, I do love them, Kail -Dra.

[1208] is, if, if, you know, somebody was asking if something could get solved.

[1209] Right.

[1210] Somebody was asking us out the other day, like, conversationally.

[1211] And I, it's always like, we always say like John Bonnet or blah, blah, blah, whatever.

[1212] But then just thinking about that, like, I would love the real deal report on MKL.

[1213] The list of things that have happened because of it.

[1214] Yeah.

[1215] That's a good one.

[1216] Like the real, you know, there was like the one guy that they, the family is like, there's no way he would have committed suicide.

[1217] And it was like he jumped out of a window, right?

[1218] I mean, there's a million of those.

[1219] Yeah.

[1220] And they're always like, that would be good.

[1221] Yeah.

[1222] It's so fascinating.

[1223] It's also like, it's easy, though.

[1224] You know what I mean?

[1225] Like, it's one of those things where it's like, oh, she was a runaway.

[1226] It's like, no, it's much more simple.

[1227] It's much more simple than that or something.

[1228] Or that's simple.

[1229] Okay.

[1230] Anyways, blah, blah, blah.

[1231] I think it's more likely that he was depressed.

[1232] He was also having financial trouble and that he was a fucking dick.

[1233] If he were still alive today, he would be 80 years old.

[1234] Oh.

[1235] So he could still be alive.

[1236] Yeah.

[1237] So everyone, go find Hugh Hefner's creepy brother.

[1238] So, God, that's interesting to be guilty of a crime and run to Stockholm, Sweden, and still run into someone that you know.

[1239] Oh, because, like...

[1240] How annoying is that?

[1241] Right?

[1242] And because he was in the military, he probably went to military -ish places, right?

[1243] Like, places he knew from having gone there before for his job.

[1244] You think he wouldn't, though, because then people recognize him there.

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] But he also spent some time in Africa before the murders, too.

[1247] So that seems like the most, I think the most logical place to go because.

[1248] But he wasn't black, right?

[1249] No. So he would stand out probably too much.

[1250] I think there's a lot of white people there.

[1251] True, true, true.

[1252] You know, apartheid and all that shit.

[1253] Okay, I just immediately was like, yeah, he won't go stand on the Savannah, Karen.

[1254] He's not going to just go, like, he's not going to walk into a National Geographic special and then be like, hope nobody finds me here near the zebras who are trying to drink water during a drought.

[1255] Yeah.

[1256] This tribe.

[1257] It's wrong with my brain.

[1258] This tribe let me come in and join the fray.

[1259] But I mean, I guess what I meant was there's those places where like, it's almost like you would, of all the places you would have to list.

[1260] Okay, this guy ran, where'd you go?

[1261] He'd went to L .A. He went to California.

[1262] People always go west.

[1263] Instead, he went east.

[1264] And then he went to a place where like Stockholm, Sweden is just like nobody really, you would just.

[1265] blend.

[1266] Yeah.

[1267] There's a lot of places you could, and, you know, it was the time when, like, you didn't need a passport or, you know, your name didn't even have to be on the ticket.

[1268] And he had a weak start because they didn't, a weak head start.

[1269] Yeah.

[1270] Because, you know, they didn't identify the bodies until then.

[1271] Yeah, he was all free and clear.

[1272] What a creep.

[1273] He fucking, he didn't just murder them and leave their bodies.

[1274] He murdered them, drove six hours away, dug a fucking shallow hole and put the gasoline that he had bought that day on the bodies and lit them.

[1275] His mom, his high school sweetheart, and his three children.

[1276] That's almost the same as John List.

[1277] It's so much like John List.

[1278] Except, and not to say my guy was better than your guy.

[1279] But John List shot everybody in the back of that.

[1280] Nobody knew anything was happening.

[1281] He just took him out from behind.

[1282] I think he might have as well, if you're going to back in.

[1283] Well, no, I was just thinking of like...

[1284] Yours has a good...

[1285] I guess they both have good closures where it's like the money was in the ceiling the whole time on John lists.

[1286] No, but this one I'm saying it's the murder is so much more personal and awful and like, you know, hammer marks the ceiling type of shit where it's not like trying to end it quick.

[1287] Yeah, you're overkilling your own children.

[1288] And you're hurting them.

[1289] What the fuck?

[1290] But he waited until they were sleeping.

[1291] He didn't come home until they were sleep.

[1292] And the mom was on...

[1293] His mom was on a walk with the dog.

[1294] that she did every night.

[1295] It's just not...

[1296] You can't find a lot of details about how it happened either, which is, like, there's no, like, in this room, this happened while his wife was cooking or whatever the fuck.

[1297] Also, what was he like, just like, if you were in the cafeteria at the same time?

[1298] Do you think he was, like, clearly one of those, like, a closed fist of a person?

[1299] Or do you think it was all, like, still rotters run deep and he was just, like, chill and nothing was going on?

[1300] There was not a single thing that I saw that was like, and you always see this.

[1301] Everyone said he was such a great guy.

[1302] And everyone's, like, so I don't think he was.

[1303] He could have been tightly wound.

[1304] Yeah, I don't think people weren't like, we were so surprised.

[1305] Right.

[1306] No one said that.

[1307] Yeah, as far as I could tell.

[1308] Fuck.

[1309] Yeah.

[1310] So that is Family Annihilator, William Bradford Bishop.

[1311] Wow, Bill Bishop.

[1312] Yeah.

[1313] That's like, I've never heard of that guy.

[1314] And that's truly awful.

[1315] Yeah.

[1316] Isn't that creepy?

[1317] Also, once you kill them, you're going to run anyway.

[1318] Why do you have to burn the bodies?

[1319] You got that head start.

[1320] But, like, that's just one chore you don't have to do.

[1321] Like, you've killed your whole family.

[1322] They're probably not going to get found for a week.

[1323] But, I mean, like, either way, it's not like you killed one member of your family and everyone else that doesn't know what's happening or something.

[1324] It's like, you've taken out an entire family unit.

[1325] People are going to catch on, no matter what the state of their corpses is.

[1326] Yeah.

[1327] Yeah.

[1328] It's so fucked up.

[1329] It's too much.

[1330] It's pretty amazing that they were able to actually identify the bodies because if he hadn't left that shovel behind, they would have never gone.

[1331] They would have never talked to Bethesda, Maryland because they identified it as one of two hardware stores in Bethesda.

[1332] And it was hundreds of miles away, right?

[1333] You said?

[1334] Six hours away or something.

[1335] So if he hadn't kind of fucked up and left a shovel behind, they would have never been traced to each other.

[1336] Did he want to get caught?

[1337] Yeah, maybe.

[1338] It was probably his, I don't think he wanted to get caught.

[1339] No. You don't want to get caught if you burn bodies.

[1340] It's just, he did everything the worst way possible.

[1341] He really did.

[1342] And he was never fucking found, which is so disappointing.

[1343] Yeah, but he got that military edge.

[1344] He's like a, a Bourne -esque.

[1345] He's a Jason Bourne type.

[1346] Bad born.

[1347] Yeah, bad born.

[1348] Hey.

[1349] How about one positive thing that happened?

[1350] Hey.

[1351] Let's get out of there.

[1352] What about?

[1353] So we try to end this with something positive because we don't want to end on a family annihilator.

[1354] A thing that makes us happy.

[1355] A thing that we like.

[1356] A thing that we've noticed lately that's fun.

[1357] Yeah.

[1358] You just shook your head terrifyingly at me. Mine is that because 3 o 'clock to 7 o 'clock is so hard.

[1359] What the fuck?

[1360] fuck I hate neighbors um oh that was creepy they just moved in so they're like putting painting up and shit oh we're podcasting also that it just was so light it was really creepy they're trying to be quiet okay so oh yeah okay so from three to seven so it's hard for me so the thing i've been doing this past week to try to like make it positive to me scare the shit at hey little girl um the thing i've been laying out at the point cool in the sun.

[1361] And it's been fucking phenomenal.

[1362] Oh, that's good.

[1363] It's been making me so happy and so like, like I feel like I'm in paradise.

[1364] That's really good.

[1365] I wonder if you had maybe a little vitamin D deficiency and you need a little sunlight, a little, what do they call it, weather depression or whatever?

[1366] Yeah, definitely.

[1367] And it's just this thing of like, okay, here's celebrating life in a different way than alcohol and charcutory.

[1368] Yes.

[1369] Which, man, still sounds so much better, but whatever.

[1370] Well, it's definitely faster.

[1371] But it's so relaxing when you're outside.

[1372] I've been actually sitting outside at my house too.

[1373] Nice.

[1374] It's just so relaxing.

[1375] And it's been mine, okay, I guess mine will be, I walked my dogs in my neighbor, the neighborhood kind of near me, which is nice last night.

[1376] And it was as if all the Jasmine and the whole neighborhood bloomed at one time.

[1377] I know.

[1378] It was crazy.

[1379] It's walking around a neighborhood and it smelled like the inside of, of a florist shop was one of the weirdest things of all time.

[1380] There's this moment in L .A. And it's such a quick moment where all the jasmine blooms.

[1381] And it only happens for like a very short time during the year.

[1382] And it's fucking fabulous.

[1383] It's crazy.

[1384] And when you, like I was coming home from something and from my, from like the lift to the front door, I was the smell was so beautiful and strong.

[1385] I was like, I have to walk my dogs right now.

[1386] Like I need to be out in this air.

[1387] I love that.

[1388] It was very cool.

[1389] It's a good one.

[1390] And also, because I've been in my house doing nothing but, like, binge watching TV.

[1391] And cleaning the walls.

[1392] And wiping down walls like a weird mental patient.

[1393] Just kind of, like, staring off.

[1394] The walls must be clean.

[1395] But they are, the difference it makes when your walls are clean, I just highly recommend.

[1396] Don't think about it until someone else does it that you pay them to do it.

[1397] And you're like, oh.

[1398] But also, when you get one of those magic erasers, they really do work.

[1399] I know.

[1400] I love it.

[1401] What's it a Mr. Clean thing?

[1402] Yeah.

[1403] Or you can get a Target brand.

[1404] It's like a little bleach sponge.

[1405] Yeah.

[1406] It's a white sponge that when you touch it to things, it just makes marks and nicks and shitty -looking things go away.

[1407] I bet it's made of asbestos.

[1408] I hold it in my hand for, like, hours at a time.

[1409] Let it dissolve.

[1410] All of this is leaching into my system.

[1411] You know what?

[1412] Maybe it'll clean it out a little bit.

[1413] I mean, the end days are going to come before you can die of asbestos poisoning.

[1414] Probably, right?

[1415] What if the magic eraser is the new green juice?

[1416] And that's the way to detox is just to magic erase both hands.

[1417] Yeah.

[1418] Every morning.

[1419] I'm just picturing that.

[1420] I think I can get Mimi to meow again.

[1421] Yes, special guess.

[1422] There's just someone post, yeah, go to our Instagram.

[1423] Thanks for listening.

[1424] Oh, thank you so much for listening.

[1425] You guys are the best.

[1426] We appreciate you your support and having fun with us, and we want you to stay sexy.

[1427] And don't get murdered.

[1428] Mimi?

[1429] What cookie?

[1430] Mimi, say it.

[1431] Mimi.

[1432] Want cookie?

[1433] Not you.

[1434] Mimi.

[1435] Look at Mimi.

[1436] She won't do it.

[1437] Come on.

[1438] Yay.

[1439] I talked over her.

[1440] See, she'll do it again.

[1441] You can cut all the shadas.

[1442] There she is.

[1443] Wait, Mimi.

[1444] Alice, she's mad.

[1445] I know.

[1446] Elvis, you want a cookie?

[1447] Yeah.

[1448] That's how it's done.

[1449] Bye.