Erika Christensen

[0] Hello.

[1] Welcome to the armchair expert.

[2] This is Dax Shepherd, your host.

[3] I'm joined with Monica, your co -host.

[4] Hello.

[5] And before we get into this episode, which is with my ever beautiful talented TV sister, Eric Christensen, I guess it's a disclaimer, I'll say.

[6] This is something I've been wanting to bring up for a while.

[7] And it's just kind of a context I'm hoping people will think of this podcast in.

[8] And the thing that I liked a lot about majoring in anthropology was this kind of, mindset they forced you to adopt so that you could understand other cultures.

[9] And at the time, it was called cultural relativism.

[10] I don't even know if it's popular anymore, if that's even what they're teaching.

[11] But the point of cultural relativism was to not go into learning about something with the goal of judging that thing.

[12] Because if your goal is to judge it as moral or amoral or good or evil, it really gets in the way of you understanding that thing.

[13] And it's a very tempting thing.

[14] I am often quick to say whether I think someone's an asshole or they're a saint.

[15] But when you want to study things, your knee -jerk reaction is this is evil.

[16] That's the explanation.

[17] That's all we need to know about it.

[18] But as you learn more about the culture and the environment they're living in, you may ultimately come to the conclusion that this is a very bad practice or whatever.

[19] But by not jumping to that yet, it allows you to learn about why, when, how things happen.

[20] And my goal in this podcast is to do that, to understand why something is the way it is and from that person's point of view.

[21] And the interest is in more the pursuit of causality and not a conclusion.

[22] So that is my disclaimer to say that we're going to talk a lot about Scientology in this episode.

[23] And I applaud Erica for being so honest about it.

[24] And you might be at home saying, you should be trying to prove to her why.

[25] that's wrong.

[26] And I just want to say to you that that's just not my interest.

[27] My interest is to find out what it does in her life and why she's drawn to it.

[28] And I think she did a very good job of letting us in on that.

[29] And no one's trying to convince you.

[30] That's right.

[31] No one here is trying to convert you to anything.

[32] Not even AA as much as I talk about it.

[33] Oh, one more thing before we get into, Erica.

[34] This week we're going to have a bonus episode.

[35] Something new we're starting called Experts on Expert, where we'll talk to people.

[36] who actually know what they're talking about.

[37] And this week we're going to have a really exciting person who's a childhood psychologist, a clinical psychologist who knows quite a bit about child rearing, which then extends to adult life as well.

[38] Yeah, it's not just for people who have children.

[39] I found it endlessly fascinating.

[40] Yeah, I got to say it was my very favorite hour and a half we've had in this addict.

[41] It was so intellectually stimulating.

[42] She's so smart and well -spoken and fun.

[43] So I really hope everyone on Thursday will check out experts on expert.

[44] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[45] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[46] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[47] He's an armchair expert.

[48] He's an Lerneryxper.

[49] Okay, Rob, you're recording.

[50] Erica Christensen, long -time sister.

[51] Welcome to the armchair expert.

[52] Thank you so much.

[53] I'm really excited that you're here.

[54] You are highly requested.

[55] That's awesome.

[56] That makes me feel nice, guys.

[57] But we've known each other for a long time prior to parenthood.

[58] Yeah, it was probably 10 years before parenthood or something.

[59] Yeah, I feel like you're much better at dates than I am.

[60] But let's start with you were in traffic in 2000.

[61] Okay, let's use that as a little benchmark.

[62] Okay.

[63] That was 18 years ago.

[64] Okay, so how old were you?

[65] 17.

[66] Okay.

[67] And I met you, well, I met you after Swim Fan.

[68] And Swim Fan is 2002.

[69] That is correct.

[70] 2002.

[71] At least, oh, did we shoot?

[72] Whatever.

[73] Yeah, 2002.

[74] Basically, at some point, I'm going to need to make these dates work where you were an adult when I met you.

[75] I was 19.

[76] Okay.

[77] Before I can say that, I thought you were hot and all that stuff.

[78] Oh, that's awesome.

[79] Yeah, so you were probably 19.

[80] Yeah.

[81] And we met because you hung out with all the 70 shows.

[82] kids.

[83] Yeah, it was completely my social world.

[84] Right.

[85] Like, it was a lot of people's social world.

[86] Mm -hmm.

[87] It was such a hub.

[88] I mean, it's crazy on a Friday night, on shoot night.

[89] It was like 50 other kids that we would just come hang out.

[90] Yeah, 100 audience members and 200 guests.

[91] Yeah, of those guys.

[92] Didn't even watch the show.

[93] We're just going into all the dressing rooms.

[94] Yes.

[95] And I was late to that because I shot punked with Kutcher and then he invited me but that was like year six or seven so you were already well established in that that group God I guess so because I think we shot traffic between season one and two of 70s maybe that early and you were involved with those guys that yeah well you knew Danny for a long long time right yeah but I mean tangential socially but then it was Tofer and traffic oh right Right.

[96] Right.

[97] That was your gateway.

[98] Yeah.

[99] And so I guess, I don't know.

[100] He must have just invited me like, come hang out on a shoot night.

[101] And then it was like, welcome to this world.

[102] Here, here.

[103] Have some friends.

[104] Welcome to this world of 20 year old millionaires who all own homes and are applauded every night.

[105] It's a pretty wild thing to witness.

[106] I mean, less so for you, probably having grown up in L .A., but for me, for sure, I was like, look at these all these young people have escalades and corvettes and shit.

[107] And it just seemed like the high school.

[108] had won the lottery or something.

[109] Yeah.

[110] And then whenever I'd go visit, like there'd be, especially in Wilmer's, there would be a different car every time in Wilmer's parking spot.

[111] And I'm like, this is amazing.

[112] This guy's like 22 and just living like a lottery winner.

[113] Yeah.

[114] And they all had to, they were all very, very friendly.

[115] Yeah.

[116] Nice, nice, welcoming, inclusive folks.

[117] And so on point at work, which is great that like the show didn't suffer.

[118] everybody was still funny everybody was still just there when it came time for their scene even though they're out like playing craps yes in drinking probably probably yeah I don't know I mean I feel like I saw some light drinking I think during the shoot or I mean afterward for hours yes definitely heavily afterwards I feel like maybe a couple of loop loop up cocktails just to loosen up before you take the stage totally plausible.

[119] I feel like I saw that, but maybe I imagined it.

[120] I don't know.

[121] Another unique thing about them is it was strife for jealousy, which I did not witness because you had like, say, Ashton at that time had a number one opening movie with just married or whatever, and then Tofer had been in traffic and people are doing different things, but no one's seemingly getting jealous of one another.

[122] They're all very supportive and loving.

[123] Yeah.

[124] That's pretty unique.

[125] Yeah, it was, it was very cool to witness.

[126] They were very supportive of each other.

[127] And let's just for a half a second for people who have not met Wilmer, Waldorama.

[128] on real life.

[129] I don't think people have any sense of what he's like in real life.

[130] Of any, like, of actors I know on screen and off screen.

[131] Yeah.

[132] In real life, Wilmer, could we say he's like top five sexiest human beings to ever live?

[133] Do you think that would be fair?

[134] Sure.

[135] He's so charismatic in person, right?

[136] He literally, I feel like the first time that I met him, he grabbed me and said, let's run away together.

[137] And I was like, what is this?

[138] And part of you were saying, fuck, yeah, when do we leave, right?

[139] What do I need to bring?

[140] Do you, do you need to wait for a curtain call?

[141] And then we go?

[142] And then not only is his personality that, like very outgoing, very funny, very smiley, charming.

[143] But to see this man dance, Monica, I know you think Bruno Maras, the sun rises and sets on his dancing.

[144] And it is exceptional.

[145] I stand by that.

[146] It's an exceptional dancing.

[147] But Wilmer is a better dancer.

[148] Let me tell you why.

[149] He and his sister, remind me of his sister's name.

[150] Marilyn.

[151] Maryland and he grew up as kids dancing tango together.

[152] Is that what dance they were doing in Venezuela?

[153] Yeah, I wouldn't say it would be tango.

[154] It must have been salsa, yeah.

[155] My whiteness is going to really show through here.

[156] But suffice to say I'd never seen this variety of dancing.

[157] And it was as electric as anything I've ever witnessed.

[158] And every time we would all go out, to any kind of nightclub or whatever, those two would invariably do some of these routines they knew as kids.

[159] And it was like whatever dancing with the stars is times four, those two.

[160] Because they had been dancing together as infants.

[161] They built a routine.

[162] And also when you say every time we would go out, that was very frequent.

[163] Yes, every Friday night was followed by.

[164] Certainly every Friday night.

[165] And then there was the whole just Pantara Sarah's week.

[166] who was a club promoter who kind of knew every night to be at every club right yeah yeah i was never tight with her but you were very tight with her right well yeah i mean i don't know she she has certainly much closer friendships but like we had a love and i certainly respected basically what her business was like she built a social structure that was like well if you want to see your friends on monday night then you better go to josephs because that's where they are right right Right.

[167] And I never got to, I never got to like dive head first into that because I was also living with my girlfriend and I could only go out maybe twice a week when she was working nights at the restaurant.

[168] So I couldn't do like Monday Joseph's or Tuesday cabana room.

[169] You would be dead.

[170] I would have been dead.

[171] Yeah.

[172] Thank God.

[173] You weren't.

[174] Oh, God.

[175] A weekend.

[176] Back to Wilmer's sex appeal.

[177] Okay.

[178] It all circles back.

[179] I can't.

[180] And I'm going to resist the urge to compare it to something food oriented because again, that's, that's.

[181] That's too dicey, but white hot flame of sexual appeal from this guy.

[182] Yeah.

[183] Some people really own it.

[184] Yes.

[185] Like, and he just owns it.

[186] He oozed sex appeal.

[187] Like he knew, he knew that you don't, you don't pump the brakes on this.

[188] You just let it flow, you know?

[189] I'd find myself even as a male talking to him, just kind of getting mixed up and confused and lost in what was happening.

[190] Because he also was super charming.

[191] accent and everything and he's talking very smooth i can't say enough about him and then let's just get right to this then so one night at um wilmer's house i took a nude swim correct right and we were just shockingly just me lots of people were swimming one person was skinny dipping i had not brought a suit swimsuit in my defense i i was drinking you and i have the we share most of the people I know professionally I've never really drank around.

[192] That's true.

[193] That's true.

[194] It's so interesting.

[195] It's so satisfying.

[196] I have actually that with a few other people that I basically knew like when they were kids, you know, and when they were wild.

[197] And then to see kind of the growth and the wisdom and all of that accumulate and all kinds of whatever it is that gets them to be passionate about life in a new way.

[198] Yeah.

[199] To see that adulthood is so cool.

[200] And for you, you were so immersed in this younger acting community, you must have also seen tons of fatalities.

[201] I mean, whether literally or just, you've witnessed some stuff, right, where people were, they self -sabotaged or they just took themselves out.

[202] Yeah, yeah, whether literally or not, certainly.

[203] Thankfully, nobody's jumping into my mind right now.

[204] Right, right, right.

[205] But it's funny, too, because I think that there was probably a level of.

[206] ignorance I had about what was going on just like you were saying like you were part of the drinking likely if there was drinking going on or it's just that thing of like when you're pregnant you see pregnant people everywhere yes it's so you were aware of things on a level that I just not being a drinker yes never was and I didn't drink until I mean like I had a half of a drink here and there or something like that but I didn't have more than one drink in a night until my 21st birthday and then I was kind of bummed about it because it affected my balance and I wanted to be dancing.

[207] Well, I'm going to go through a laundry list of what I think are unique, eclectic character traits of Erica Christensen because you are definitely in my top 10 most unique friends.

[208] Just as a person that came out of the womb this way, I'm presuming, but that right there, you didn't drink.

[209] Right.

[210] Everyone drank and you didn't drink.

[211] And I was intermittently fascinated with that because.

[212] I was often trying to quit drinking or maybe quitting for three months.

[213] So then when I would notice someone else wasn't drinking, I was uniquely drawn to that.

[214] Yeah.

[215] And I would be saying to you like, why aren't you drinking as if it was impossible to, and you just, I could tell you had zero attachment to it one way or another.

[216] You're just like, oh, I just don't.

[217] Yeah.

[218] What do you mean?

[219] What does that mean?

[220] It's so funny because it is.

[221] It just wasn't part of the equation.

[222] Like it just didn't calculate.

[223] And do you think that's from parenting?

[224] Like had you been kind of warned like, hey, stay in control of yourself.

[225] Don't do the other.

[226] Well, it's part of definitely parenting.

[227] Part of that, the warningness, but like tempered with no set like rules and potential punishments and that kind of thing, like nothing to rebel against essentially.

[228] Oh, uh -huh.

[229] And so when I remember, I think the first drink I ever had was I went to a frat party with a friend when I was 16.

[230] Oh, very dangerous.

[231] And, yeah, and was looking around like, okay, I'm not relating to much of any of this, but okay, I can have a beer.

[232] And so, like, had half a beer and was, like, not taken with it and was like, cool.

[233] Got a little buzz from a half a beer.

[234] And then went home and told my mom, mom, I went to this party and had half a beer.

[235] And she was like, oh, I was like, okay, cool.

[236] Okay, so is this neutral?

[237] Yeah, she had already given me a bunch of.

[238] of her viewpoint about essentially retaining your lucidity and not for safety reasons, but just the value of that, the pure value of lucidity.

[239] And that's, I think, what hit home to me and what struck me and what I took pride in and what I still do, you know?

[240] And you know what's so interesting is that that is also the same, I believe, well, personally motive for why you get fucked up is I find lucidity oppressive sometimes.

[241] You know, like my mind is very, very busy and I need a fucking break from it sometimes.

[242] So like that over clarity maybe that I think I have on certain things or the obsessive mind, that lucidity is is cumbersome for me sometimes.

[243] I totally understand that.

[244] And I know other, I've talked to other people who have said the same thing.

[245] Like, I got, there's an off button.

[246] Like, please.

[247] Yeah.

[248] But I want the punch out card occasionally on the wall.

[249] Give me eight hours here.

[250] Oh, yeah, take a nap.

[251] Do you still get your eight hours?

[252] I'm doing better.

[253] I have a magic bed right now that tracks my sleep.

[254] What?

[255] Yeah, when I wake up in the morning, now I look at this app and it tells me like when I got out of bed, how long I was restless, what my heart rate was, my oxygen level.

[256] As with everything else, I look, I just basically wake up and I look at Kristen's how good her sleep was compared to mine.

[257] And that's really all it's about.

[258] I'm like, you got twice as good as sleep as me last night.

[259] In the same amount of time.

[260] Uh -huh.

[261] Uh -huh.

[262] Yeah, because she goes, that head hits the pillow and son.

[263] Ayonara suck as she's gone.

[264] Oh my God.

[265] That's brilliant.

[266] Do you have all right to sleep?

[267] No. Okay, good.

[268] No, I definitely don't.

[269] You should try drinking.

[270] It's a great relief.

[271] You know, I never thought of that.

[272] Wouldn't that be great if the end result of this whole thing was that I took up drinking?

[273] That I somehow talked to you into becoming an alcoholic.

[274] You're such a peer pressure.

[275] I am.

[276] Monica hates this about me. She thinks I'm a bad peer pressure, which I am.

[277] Because Monica is very enlightened, very smart, did great in college, just an overachiever across the board.

[278] And I said to her, you're going to die, not knowing when having taken mushrooms is like, doesn't that bother you?

[279] Don't you want to have that experience before you leave the planet?

[280] I could care less.

[281] No, see, I'm with you.

[282] I also, I mean, I can justify things in all kinds of different ways, but basically, like, as a Scientologist, and I definitely cannot speak for every Scientologist about anything.

[283] Right.

[284] Because everybody has their own beliefs and it comes at it from even other religions and all kinds of stuff.

[285] However, I don't believe this is the first time I have lived on this planet.

[286] And I basically think I've probably done absolutely everything before.

[287] Okay.

[288] Yeah, you don't have that panic I have where it's like, I got to stand on top of the Sears Tower.

[289] I got to fucking dig a hole that brings water.

[290] Clock is ticking.

[291] Yes, I always feel like the clock is ticking.

[292] That can be very useful.

[293] Yeah, that's not like I don't need to win an Academy Award this go -round.

[294] I might do it three times from now.

[295] You might have six.

[296] I might have six and maybe that's why I don't care.

[297] Oh my God, that could be it.

[298] Yeah, that could be it.

[299] Well, before we get into Scientology, because I want to, because you and I have had many great conversations over the years about it because we work together for six years and I like talking about that kind of stuff.

[300] And you are very open about it.

[301] I love that you're curious about deeper things.

[302] Like what do people actually believe, not just like, what are you driving?

[303] And I think it would be useful for me to give, because I can take either side of the argument, which I'm a fan of doing.

[304] If I'm talking to people who are super critical of Scientology, these are the things I'll point out.

[305] You're going to definitely correct me, but I'm just going to go against the common perception of some things.

[306] Okay.

[307] But let's just say I'm talking with somebody and he goes, that person says, oh, they believe in aliens, okay?

[308] And then they say, oh, and they got to pay all this money to be in the religion.

[309] And then I point out, okay, let's say they believe in aliens.

[310] I find aliens to be, at least scientifically speaking, a lot more plausible than a man in the sky that has a beard who had a son who sent the sun down to planet Earth only to be killed to come back up to him.

[311] Yet there's still three of them.

[312] There's those two in the Holy Ghost.

[313] That isn't more plausible than aliens.

[314] So just if the genesis of both religions, you can't say one's crazier just by its concept.

[315] Even if you believe there's aliens.

[316] Again, this is where you'll probably go, we don't believe in aliens.

[317] But even if you do or don't, let's just say you do for the sake of this.

[318] Sure.

[319] Okay, good.

[320] I think I do.

[321] Okay, great.

[322] I think, yeah, I think it's pretty plausible.

[323] Like the fact that we would be completely alone in this universe seems implausible.

[324] Well, there's billions and billions of stars just within our cluster.

[325] And we're a, yeah.

[326] Yes.

[327] There are in a cluster of galaxies that are a cluster of cluster, of cluster of it's, yeah.

[328] The universe is infinite.

[329] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[330] We've all been there.

[331] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers and strange rashes.

[332] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[333] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can, start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[334] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[335] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[336] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[337] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[338] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[339] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[340] What's up, guys?

[341] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[342] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[343] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[344] And I don't mean just friends.

[345] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[346] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[347] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[348] So from the get -go, you know, it's not more preposterous than any of our main religions being Judeo -Christian or Islam.

[349] And then money, you got to pay a lot of money to go through the ranks.

[350] Well, to that I say my grandparents were Baptist and they were expected to and did give 10 % of their income to the church.

[351] Yeah.

[352] One of the five pillars of Islam is donations.

[353] So there is generally a financial commitment to any major religion.

[354] So in that, there's nothing really different.

[355] And then third, oh, there are people there that are, they'll say slaves that work for nothing to blah, blah, blah.

[356] And I'll say, how much are the choir boys getting?

[357] How much are the guys who carry the stuff in the Catholic procession?

[358] Like service to your church is also very, very, very normal.

[359] And then to your point, which I think we should get out from the get -go, and I'm glad you said it, is you have your take on Scientology.

[360] You're not speaking for Scientology.

[361] You're not saying what everyone's relationship with it.

[362] I too am in a group that people think is a cult, which is AA.

[363] And there are as many different people that you know at your crowded bar room.

[364] That's how many different kinds of people are in AA.

[365] So you could meet someone AA who's a fucking lunatic.

[366] No question.

[367] Sure.

[368] And his interpretation of AA, I might think is bad shit crazy.

[369] And his, likewise of mine, he would think was crazy.

[370] Right.

[371] So I don't think either of us will be speaking for either of our organizations at all, right?

[372] With that said, what is also unique about you is there are, in my experience with Scientologists in L .A., which I know probably a dozen.

[373] Yeah.

[374] There are people who found it, and there are people that were raised Scientologists.

[375] Right.

[376] And you were raised Scientologists, correct?

[377] Right.

[378] It's funny because I like to really be specific about that, too, because it's hard.

[379] to, it's hard to raise someone as a Scientologist because it's something that you do.

[380] It's not something that you believe.

[381] And so my parents definitely are Scientologists, approached parenting from a Scientology viewpoint.

[382] I know, I know that now as an adult.

[383] I can see that in the way that they approach me as a kid and really trying to do what I'm doing now as a parent, which is trying to temper absolutely necessary discipline and rules and structure with fostering independent thought and freedom of personality.

[384] You know, just it has to be true for you.

[385] It can't, like, don't take anybody's word for anything ever, basically, without being a cynic or without being, you know, close -minded.

[386] Some kind of paranoiac.

[387] Yeah, it's just the, what do you have if you don't have yourself?

[388] Mm -hmm.

[389] So that, and then various things like, you know, drinking and drugs and stuff like that, we basically think it's counterproductive.

[390] Right.

[391] If you get right down to it.

[392] And again, I'll point out my understanding of it, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but drugs for sure is, and that's just off the table for San Telst, right?

[393] Yeah.

[394] Drinking is allowed and.

[395] Yeah.

[396] Absolutely.

[397] But they generally do not do drugs and are strongly urged never to do drugs.

[398] Yes.

[399] Yes.

[400] Because it's, it, as the action of Scientology, when you are picking apart the chronology of your life and its effects upon you, it really helps to have that lucidity.

[401] Uh -huh.

[402] And so, like, it's almost, now I'm circling back to the other topic, but it's almost just selfish on my part.

[403] Uh -huh.

[404] Like, I want to be able to remember everything.

[405] Uh -huh.

[406] I want to be smart.

[407] You want to be at your peak.

[408] I do.

[409] And I want to consider that I'm always just driving toward my best self.

[410] Yes.

[411] You were homeschooled.

[412] Was that based on being Scientologist or being a child actor or a combination of both?

[413] Being an actor.

[414] Okay.

[415] Yeah, that was a practical thing because I was spending so much time like in classes and auditions and work and all that stuff.

[416] But communication being just the key to solving any problem.

[417] I feel like that's where my parents really also succeeded in making themselves safe to talk to.

[418] Yeah.

[419] So that when I did go and say, I had my first beer, I told them instead of going, I'm going to be in such deep shit.

[420] Like, I can't do that.

[421] And then driving and like really getting into that the phenomena of just teenager dumb where everything they say is wrong.

[422] no matter what it is and you know and just like it's so defensive I never had to be so defensive because I was like well this happened you let's just say that you did take the the path of um either I'm going to lie about it or or I'm going to be in trouble so now your brain gets very busy going to go okay so I'm going to be in trouble so I'm going to explain to them well Mike and Jenny also drink right and so and you know I'm the only person that doesn't drink right so now you're creating this entire chatter in your head this fake argument that's going to ensue and you're bolstering your side of the case.

[423] Right.

[424] So now you're occupying your whole brain with your side of the case that's inevitably coming your way.

[425] Yep.

[426] Or you're going to lie to him and now you're building like, well, did you drink tonight?

[427] No, because we went to Kathy's and Kathy's mom is evangelical and there's no booze in that.

[428] You're like both so exhausted.

[429] Yeah, you're completely off to the races, right?

[430] In either direction.

[431] And you you dig your heels in so hard when you know that like when you're going well Mike and Jenny also drink it so you can't own it you can't be like I'm not sure if that was the right thing to do if you're if you are already on the defense right yeah it would be defeat to admit error exactly right it's me against you right now and I have to win this and which is always the case right with like all of life you know yeah and and they were never like you need to go to church or anything like that too is like this is what we're interested in these are the some of the things that we believe.

[432] Oh, so you were not required.

[433] They didn't go like, oh, you're going, you're going, you're taking a tour.

[434] No, like, never.

[435] No, it was like, we think this is a good idea.

[436] Uh -huh.

[437] Would you check it out, you know?

[438] And always with the choice and always, I was like, yeah, sure.

[439] I mean, I was a kid.

[440] I was like, well, it sounds cool to me, fine.

[441] And then when I actually, when I was like 12, I started doing a bunch of the little introductory courses that they still have now that a few hours, maybe each.

[442] And they're guided by some type of teacher.

[443] They're not a teacher.

[444] It's a supervisor because it's between you and the text.

[445] But if you get stuck not understanding something, the dictionary, they're right there.

[446] You know, they're going to help you out.

[447] Well, yeah.

[448] And then so let's just go, again, this is all my laymen's, what I think I've gathered over the years.

[449] But one of the big tenets, right, in Scientology or the learning technology is clearing words, right?

[450] So when you're reading something and you come across a word, which we all do, and you don't know what it means and you just think, whatever, I'll blow by it.

[451] Maybe the context afterward will help me understand what that was, that now everything after that moment, after you've passed this word that you don't understand, now all the information you're going to gather after that is going to be a little bit skewed.

[452] Is that my, do I have it right?

[453] You do.

[454] So one of the recommendations is that folks carry a dictionary or they have one around adult or, you know, access to it.

[455] If you're going to sit down and study something, you should do it with a dictionary.

[456] And then every time you get to any word, you're even a little bit confused about.

[457] about you, you're obligated to really look it up and really understand it before you go forward.

[458] Right.

[459] All the definitions that are in use, if they're archaic definitions, whatever, but just you don't want to keep running into the same word again.

[460] It's a different definition and you ignored that last time.

[461] So it's a very thorough process.

[462] Okay, there's four different definitions.

[463] There's two verbs and two adjectives.

[464] You know, like, oh, and there's this noun one.

[465] That's super weird.

[466] Nobody ever uses it like that, but it's grammatically correct.

[467] Part of the English language, fine, you know, and you clear it.

[468] And then you look at the etymology of it comes from.

[469] from Latin, mostly, you know?

[470] Yeah.

[471] Check it out.

[472] And then you get it and it becomes that part of you that you don't have to like fill in the blank with, you know, as you're reading the sentence, you know how you do that.

[473] Sometimes how you're like, and the synonym for that word.

[474] Yeah, conversely to clearing words, I actually enjoy the challenge of, I have no fucking clue what that word is, but I guarantee with five more sentences, I'll be able to figure out what they met.

[475] Yeah.

[476] Like I almost enjoy that challenge of it.

[477] That's a fun game.

[478] Yeah, that's just the Dax Shepherd approach.

[479] Totally.

[480] Yeah, and maybe probably informed by being dyslexic where I was like, if I had to look up every fucking word, I would have just never, the dictionary would know.

[481] Now, did you find that laborious as a kid or did you find it fun like little bits of research?

[482] I think it's just kind of, to me, it was just like part of like that's schooling, you know, and being of a school age, it just kind of made sense.

[483] I have to imagine it built a real, you probably have quite a catalog of words in your vocabulary from having done that.

[484] Yeah.

[485] It's pretty good.

[486] Cole loves to challenge me. He loves, yeah.

[487] He's like, there's no, no way you've heard of this word.

[488] What does this mean?

[489] And I'm like, oh, yeah, it means.

[490] And he's like, no way.

[491] Cole is Erica's very, very handsome physically fit, moustagioed husband, which we'll get into.

[492] Oh, good.

[493] So around 12, you start doing it and then you start liking it.

[494] And are they giving you tools to go through?

[495] through your normal trials and tribulations as a 12 -year -old?

[496] Like, are they, they're giving you kind of, like, techniques to use when you run into challenging situations, even at that age?

[497] Sure.

[498] The names of those introductory courses are like success through communication, right?

[499] How to genuinely communicate one person to another, not just, like, talk at each other.

[500] And there's a really simple thing about this, too.

[501] It's been explained to me by one of our mutual friends, which, yes, when Scientol just talk to people, they're committed to listening, right?

[502] There's like a specific approach to listening.

[503] Well, it's literally just that it's my turn to be receiving.

[504] If you are talking to me, I'm not supposed to be talking to you.

[505] I'm supposed to be listening to you.

[506] What about planning the next thing you're going to say while you're talking to me?

[507] No, that's not listening.

[508] Oh, bummer.

[509] Because whatever it is, you could give an example.

[510] as if we're just playing ball, right?

[511] So I can't be throwing and catching it at the same time.

[512] You've got the ball.

[513] You're throwing to me and that means I'm catching.

[514] And once I've received the ball, cool.

[515] Which is also an acting exercise that they play with young kid actors.

[516] Someone was just telling us a bit.

[517] Oh yeah, May was explaining that she had an acting coach that kind of explained listening and talking to her by doing that on the set.

[518] Yeah.

[519] Which is fascinating.

[520] It's great.

[521] You would just hope that the person that you're listening to, can actually express the concept that they want you to grasp.

[522] Yeah.

[523] And so your goal is to be able to grasp what it is that they're telling you.

[524] Yes.

[525] And vice versa, you'd hope that what you're trying to express is actually grasped as a concept.

[526] Yeah, but it does sound like you're actually making an effort, which is one of my soapbox things of, you're making an effort to understand the person's point of view, which I don't think anyone teaches us really.

[527] It's almost like from the second you engage, it's like you're trying to plant your flag in their brain or vice versa.

[528] I think it comes from insecurity that like if you actually let that person's point of view seep into your brain enough and really be empathetic enough to really try on that hat that your stance may change.

[529] Right.

[530] I think there's fear in that.

[531] I think that's part of the reason we're so resistant to it.

[532] Like, God, if I really do hear them out and I really imagine myself going through all those steps, maybe I'll reverse my position and that's scary to people.

[533] Oh, it's terrifying.

[534] Yeah, it's scary to me. It's scary to, I think, you know, most people.

[535] What did I just reverse my position on, Monica?

[536] I forget.

[537] Oh, it was really a good one.

[538] I'm sorry.

[539] What was it?

[540] No, it's very brave of you.

[541] It's so stupid, Monica said the other day, look, you have changed your opinion on something.

[542] Yeah, it was.

[543] I wish I could remember.

[544] We said remember and I forgot.

[545] It was unlike me. I bet we'll have it by the fact check.

[546] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[547] So at any rate, yes, the willingness to really hear someone out without fear that you're position is going to crumble, right, under this new point of view, it's just kind of a healthy endeavor for a lot of folks.

[548] Yeah, well, it brings me to another interesting Scientology principle, which is that in a confusion, also likening it to a physical thing, if you're in a storm with leaves blowing all around you, you know, it's disorienting and confusing and when you're losing, well, okay, and so what you do to solve that is grab one piece, and that's where you start, right?

[549] And then everything else is related to that.

[550] Right.

[551] Like you've zeroed in your focus and your literal eye focus and then your your attention to one thing.

[552] Right.

[553] And you can.

[554] And so you can do that mentally with any subject and you can be completely wrong in the leaf that you grab.

[555] But you feel so much better to have a leaf.

[556] Right.

[557] And so if someone's trying to pry it out of your hands, it's you feel.

[558] the disorientation, yes.

[559] And so if you're willing to just wait that out and then decide if you're going to grab a new leaf, then you can calm back down as soon as you have a new one, but you need to have a stable datum against which to relate everything else.

[560] Right.

[561] But it's so uncomfortable to go through the switching that it's, and it makes you feel like you're wrong and it makes you feel like you're losing part of your identity and all of those things.

[562] And our identity, once that is even remotely threatened, that's where the worst side of ourselves comes out because that's what we're protecting, as if it were our children or our source of food.

[563] Like, that's very threatening to people.

[564] Okay.

[565] So when, so then what physical steps?

[566] Like when you, you, I'm sure, find yourself in situations where it's very chaotic and all this is happening.

[567] And what is it that you tell yourself to steady yourself and and be able to focus.

[568] It's basically like, well, say it's a decision that needs to be made.

[569] Is that like?

[570] So you have all these factors.

[571] And basically the step -by -step process that I could put myself through is it's actually, it's written out by Elron Hubbard and it's called the doubt formula.

[572] And you can go through it and basically, I mean, it's like an expansion of like a pros and cons list where you evaluate what are my intentions for this thing?

[573] thing and then what are this what are the other intentions and then did the intentions and actions of these two things match up or do let's do hypothetical you get offered a job next week in New York City to be on a new TV show yeah and so what in your mind well I have a kid and I have one on the way that goes in the cons list right do I want to be traveling in New York with a new with two babies right well it wouldn't be in a cons list it would be what are my intentions so my intentions are to preserve my family unit whatever whatever you know like continue on that way and then what are the intentions of this show who knows maybe they really really respect that and they want to make that transition as smooth as possible and figure out how to have my family life there and all that I don't know I have to find out okay right but say they're like no make it work okay good so noted their intentions are to make their TV show under whatever circumstances my family be damned uh -huh uh -huh and then go through that way and just look at all of the intentions and all of the resulting actions from those intentions and essentially the efficacy of those actions in accomplishing those things.

[574] So even you could find that, you know, we're totally on the same page with the intentions, but the actions are really not working.

[575] So I don't want to join in your actions when you're like failing at whatever you're doing.

[576] right right um and you yeah you just take yourself through until it becomes clear uh -huh yeah i need to i need to be on your team about this or not and do you find that most that you're a decisive person that you generally can come to a a decision that you feel good about and don't regret yeah but i mean it's funny because if you are just asking if i'm a decisive person i feel like i'm better at making the bigger choices than the smaller choices, I don't tend to regret those like real life changing ones.

[577] Yeah.

[578] Yeah.

[579] But then if I get stuck on something and it's just not feeling like I'm able to do it, then I have to do the doubt formula.

[580] I don't have to always do it.

[581] Right.

[582] You know, a lot of the time you're like gathering the information from the other person and you're just like, oh yeah, that's not going to work.

[583] Right.

[584] There's some instinctual gut levels.

[585] Yeah.

[586] Yeah.

[587] Or you just know yourself well enough to see like that doesn't match up.

[588] Yes.

[589] Or I've done this in the past and it didn't pan out.

[590] Yeah.

[591] Right.

[592] I think people, myself including, could get really bogged down in what the theory is behind certain things at the expense of evaluating the outcome, right?

[593] So, for instance, there are many parts of AA that I think are either misogynistic because it was written in the 30s or way too God -centric for my taste.

[594] there's a whole batch of things in there I maybe don't agree with.

[595] But then if I look at the results of this thing and the results are these people worry they're going to be dead in prison or in an insane asylum and now they're healthy, thriving and have kids, right?

[596] I could choose to continue to focus on these three elements that I disagree with in theory or I can just look at the results and care a little bit more about that.

[597] Like, it's a choice I get to make.

[598] That's awesome.

[599] I'm naturally not drawn to Scientology, just because, A, I don't, you and I, this was one of the long debates we had in a car driving back from Cess wedding.

[600] Yeah.

[601] Do you remember this?

[602] And this was one of my one, my one issues with it was, okay, so there's a book, Dianetics by L. Ron Hubbard.

[603] Right.

[604] It teaches you how to go clear.

[605] Right.

[606] Right.

[607] There is a Bible.

[608] There's a Bible.

[609] That's all the information there is on Catholicism is in that Bible.

[610] Right.

[611] So why is there a priest?

[612] I don't understand why there's a priest who has to tell me what the meaning of the words in that book is.

[613] That's always been my objection to Catholicism is why is there a hierarchy when it's based on a text.

[614] We all have the ability to read the text.

[615] No one's a better or worse interpreter of text.

[616] It's just, I mean, that's not true.

[617] Obviously, some people can't interpret what they read.

[618] But all things being equal, the Pope and I have the same intellect and the same reading comprehension level.

[619] Why on earth does that guy know more about the same book that we both read.

[620] And why has he been elevated to a position of power and authority?

[621] I don't trust that.

[622] Totally valid.

[623] So my criticism at one point of yours was, well, if this is based on text, why on earth are there levels?

[624] Why is there a hierarchy?

[625] Why is there a president?

[626] One of the only things I think is absolutely miraculous about AAA is it's a completely structuralist organization.

[627] There is no presidents.

[628] There's no secretaries.

[629] There's no nothing.

[630] Nobody knows more than anyone else.

[631] Dude with two days sobriety has just a valid as opinion as I do with 13.

[632] That is amazing.

[633] That's magic.

[634] That's the one thing I'll say is the coolest part of it.

[635] Hey, right?

[636] Yeah.

[637] So, and then what was your defense of that when I was saying?

[638] I don't understand why you, Erica Christensen, who I know is as smart as a motherfucker and has access to the text, why would you need instruction from someone else?

[639] Or why would you elevate or put faith in someone above you when it's based on a text?

[640] Well, mostly I don't.

[641] And I don't remember what I would have said at the time.

[642] Okay.

[643] Well, I recorded it.

[644] So I can.

[645] this was seven years ago um but basically you're you're absolutely right you read something and your relationship is with the information there and your observation of those things as true in the world around you or not now there is definitely the as far as the levels it's just that you you don't take trig like before you finished your arithmetic and And they're not going to let you read it.

[646] They're going to say, no, no, finish your addition and multiplication tables before you get there.

[647] Right.

[648] Because it's not going to make any sense.

[649] Because you're saying like level, let's say level seven has, it has six levels of prerequisite knowledge.

[650] Exactly.

[651] That you couldn't really even comprehend what you would be readings.

[652] Yeah.

[653] It's just sequence.

[654] Okay.

[655] Okay.

[656] Well, that makes sense.

[657] Yeah.

[658] But what I was going to, I started to say it and then I got sidetracked with our debate, which is, I know a lot of Scientologists, and I don't think I agree with many of the tenants or maybe the origin or I might not hold El Ron Hubbard in the same degree that you guys do, any of that stuff, almost unilaterally, all the Scientologists, I know, very happy, pretty damn healthy, pretty productive, pretty responsible, great communicators.

[659] So when I can I can get bogged down in like, you know, the history of El Ron Hubbard and certain things like.

[660] this or I kind of just go like fuck man I know 12 of them they're super duper happy and they're doing their thing and I can just look at the results of this thing and I can say whether or not I agree with it it's totally working for you guys we have a lot of mutual friends where I'm like yeah there's some of my favorite people and they're happy as hell yeah and some of them have overcome a lot to get there and and all that that's I mean that's very cool that's very that's really taking a step back on your part to be able to observe that it's kind of what elron Hubbard is saying throughout Dianetics and throughout a lot of his books, he's like, listen, I don't, you don't have to believe this, but this keeps happening.

[661] So it seems to be true.

[662] So look at this from that viewpoint.

[663] Yeah.

[664] Because I know it sounds crazy.

[665] And like a bunch of people that were doing it in 1950 when he wrote the book were like, what are you talking about?

[666] And he's like, yeah, listen, it works when you do it this way.

[667] Right.

[668] So that's, that's what I'm telling you.

[669] Yeah.

[670] Like, you don't have to believe it.

[671] How much of the critique have you consumed any of it?

[672] No, because I don't think that it comes from an actual place of, like, your critiques, of like, I don't think it comes from critical thinking.

[673] I think it comes more from maybe that phenomena we're talking about of being threatened.

[674] Something goes against what somebody believes and really identifies with, and so they feel very threatened.

[675] and go on the attack about something.

[676] And so I just think it doesn't really have anything to do with me and my relationship with these books and the things that I do.

[677] Well, I met a really cool dude at the White House Correspondents dinner like four years ago and he happened to be high up in the Huffington Post or some newspaper or journalistic thing.

[678] And we got to talking and then it came up that I was sober.

[679] And he goes, oh, I'd really like your input on this piece we've been working on for like months.

[680] there's been the stages of it and it's all about the opium epidemic and this kind of controversial use of suboxone this this pill you can take that will prevent you basically from odine or has good success in doing that he said and i would like your opinion on it and i said yeah i'd be happy to give you my opinion so i end up reading all of their stuff you know and generally in a we're pretty anti suboxone we're pretty anti another pill you take to do, and it does get you, you are in an altered state even when you're on this thing, right?

[681] And so, it's like methadone.

[682] Yes, it's a better methadone, I guess.

[683] And at the risk of, I don't really know that much.

[684] Don't take my word.

[685] I don't want to get sued by whoever owns Suboxone.

[686] But, you know, most of us are pretty much against it because we don't really know how you end up doing the real work that really caused you to be an alcoholic to begin with if you're in an altered state while you're trying to do that work.

[687] right and it's a it's a cheat well and my my point to him was well let's just go because because their argument which is very solid and I understand why it has traction is um look all that being said sure they're not going to do it perfect like you want to but a fucking 100 teenagers are dying a year in Cincinnati and your fucking your little high on a soapbox stance about evolving as a person and self actualization albeit maybe a good goal these are people's kids that are going to fucking die and if we give them this pill we find that they don't die in two years at a third of the rate was when people just go to treatment and try to do it without it right so that's a really compelling great argument yeah um and then i ended up saying well great and if that's the bar if that's what we're just trying to prevent overdoses then let's go a step further let's just have one of these like diabetic implant systems you have and soon as someone you detect is odin from uh from uh from uh an opioid just shoot them back up with adrenaline so they can just keep going.

[688] Like, if that's all we're doing, then, but I don't think anyone would get on board with a pump that administers adrenaline when you've ODED as a solution to this problem.

[689] Yeah.

[690] It all got very complicated, but all I would, I bring that up only to say, I read a lot of critique of AA in those pieces.

[691] And then it also brought me down a rabbit hole of reading other like academic critiques of it.

[692] Uh -huh.

[693] And it's kind of brainwashing capabilities and it's cult -like attributes and all these things and now I'm fine reading that you know what I'm saying like I can read that I can even acknowledge a lot of those points are really good points and then I also just then step back and go yeah but I have two kids and a wife now and that was impossible before AA so you might be right but I don't really care I'm still going to stay on this path but I'm open to that critique and most of my Scientology friends that I've asked about it which I'm always nervous about asking because I don't want to offend anyone one, but I always wonder, why couldn't you just watch the going clear documentary or something?

[694] Because it, honestly, it doesn't have anything to do with what you're doing.

[695] Well, yeah, and honestly, with anything that I've ever learned about the group or organization as a group or organization, there are the, I mean, to be specific about that one.

[696] Yeah.

[697] Like, if somebody has read a book, read Dianetics or some Scientology book and wants to philosophically tell me what they disagree with, cool.

[698] Uh -huh.

[699] Like, that is a totally different thing.

[700] Or to say, like, I disagree with organized religion and I disagree with it.

[701] Like, that's all fine.

[702] But specifically with that documentary, the documentary was based on a book.

[703] The book was not even published certain English -speaking countries because the law.

[704] libel laws are stricter than they are here.

[705] Uh -huh.

[706] It's so, there's so much that is actually talking about sources, right?

[707] Since I don't actually, since I can't refer to specific data.

[708] Yeah.

[709] Talking about sources, they have proved themselves to be irrelevant.

[710] And so it's like, it's like with certain political figures when there came a point where you just reached like, oh, it doesn't matter what he says.

[711] Right.

[712] Yeah, sure, sure.

[713] Like, where you realize.

[714] that like oh it literally doesn't matter what he says he's lying right there are people like that like that's what i look at mostly is the source and i get to evaluate the source and go oh okay that person has been uh convicted of perjury uh -huh previously right so no there's nothing like there's no relevance in what they're saying what they're saying um have you though had any really close personal friends over the years who have left as a kid it was more like people you know kids that were like nah not for me not for me right which i totally understand you know like okay cool um yeah southern baptist wasn't for me as it turned out right yeah although man no better food than after southern baptist church at least the way they did at michigan man you that long sermon ended where you could barely get through it my Grandpa would slap my brother and I 20 times.

[715] Side note, we loved yelling amen.

[716] That's the only thing that got us through church is that they yelled amen.

[717] You know, they were permitted to yell amen.

[718] And so my brother and I would try it.

[719] We would think we could feel it out and we would just yell amen.

[720] It was never the time to yell amen and we get smacked.

[721] But anyway, immediately after you walk right outside and in the backyard in a grassy lawn, there's like seven picnic tables.

[722] It is fucking barbecue time.

[723] Ooh, game on.

[724] It was worth it for me. Yeah.

[725] If you ever break down and you're hungry, find the closest Southern Baptist Church on a Sunday and dig in.

[726] They really leaned into the southern part.

[727] They really embraced it.

[728] Well, they were all from Kentucky, so I think that's why that I'm going to go completely off topic for one second because on that same trip, when we had that debate, I can see the exact road in my head.

[729] We were in my Tahoe at the time.

[730] Yeah.

[731] And we were driving to a really romantic hotel.

[732] You remember how funny this is?

[733] By ourselves.

[734] So everyone already knows I'm with Kristen Bell.

[735] So there's nobody that really would know me at this time and not know that I'm with Kristen.

[736] Right.

[737] Also, anyone that would see us and know us would probably knows we're both on parenthood together.

[738] Playing brother and sister.

[739] And we're about midway home from driving back from Seth's wedding in Northern California.

[740] And I go, should we get a hotel?

[741] I know this hotel that has the most amazing grilled cheese.

[742] And you're like, fuck yes.

[743] Yeah.

[744] Let's do it?

[745] And then I'm like, do you want to get two rooms or should we just get one room?

[746] And you're like, yeah, let's just get one room.

[747] and we'll get two queen beds.

[748] We're both frugal.

[749] Yeah.

[750] So we basically check into this romantic.

[751] We're the only people there that are not on a honeymoon or like trying to repair their marriage.

[752] And then come to find out in order to get to our room, they have to walk us through the restaurant.

[753] The outdoor restaurant.

[754] And many, many people are, I don't want to over exaggerate how popular we are.

[755] But suffice to say, many people recognized that it was us.

[756] And we're being led by one guy with one key to a room and we both have overnight bags.

[757] And then we just fully check into a room together And we just thought the whole rest of the trip Like certainly there'll be a story that were Yeah And we're each other's side pieces You were like if I read that There's no way that I would disbelieve it It's true about any other two people Absolutely But we had our grilled cheeses Chandler and Monica check into a fucking Where were that?

[758] We were in like Carmel We were like Carmel If I read a story of Chandler and Matthew Perry and Courtney Cox Matthew Perry and Courtney Cox checking into a really romantic hotel for the night and laughing about how everybody in the restaurant must like are they is somebody does somebody care enough to like try to leak it to the press?

[759] Yeah.

[760] It'd be kind of fun right if they did.

[761] Oh absolutely.

[762] Because Kristen of course would well even before we had done that this all happened not too long after we shot the pilot of parenthood.

[763] And when we shot the pilot of parenthood we were up in Berkeley for about three weeks.

[764] weeks.

[765] And at a certain point, Kristen had gotten this gift card to go to this outrageous hotel, Calistoga Ranch in Napa Valley.

[766] And then we drove up there to go for the weekend.

[767] And when we got there, they gave us the key.

[768] And it was like four little houses.

[769] It was like a compound that one little house was this amazing kitchen.

[770] One house was like a living room.

[771] And then there was two little houses that were bedrooms.

[772] And we were both immediately as romantic as it was.

[773] We were like, we would feel guilty just having this to ourselves.

[774] Like, Other people need to enjoy this.

[775] So we called Erica and we're like, Baj, do you want to come up to this outrageous resort with us?

[776] Yeah.

[777] I showed up.

[778] We had some hot tub time.

[779] Yeah.

[780] We got in the hot.

[781] So we'd already really been kind of cohabitating in hotels together prior to the Carmel Lovers Retreat.

[782] The stories we could tell.

[783] I love it.

[784] See, this is an example of the way you can take a bunch of facts and make a story.

[785] story and make it sound like whatever you want.

[786] Yes.

[787] And some of the facts are absolutely true.

[788] And we fucked.

[789] Well, that too.

[790] Several times.

[791] Only punctuated by grilled cheese.

[792] By the grilled cheese and strawberry ice cream.

[793] What kind of grilled cheese are we talking?

[794] Holy shit.

[795] Well, first of all, it was cut in the most extravagant shape.

[796] Remember it was like round on the outside, but then a diagonal.

[797] Crispiest bread you ever had real long, about this long.

[798] just for everyone knows.

[799] I'm holding up my hands about the size of a subway foot long sub.

[800] I can't believe.

[801] This must be before my obsession with food really started to sink in.

[802] No, this was right smack dab in the middle of your obsession with eating lots of supplements.

[803] Oh, that hasn't changed.

[804] That doesn't change.

[805] No, you open the pantry.

[806] And I think I even did ask you one time, I'm like, is this Scientology -related?

[807] Because by the way, here's what I am guilty of.

[808] Any time I observe you do anything that doesn't make sense to me, I go straight to, oh, this has got to be a side -tie thing.

[809] Definitely.

[810] Is that, are the supplements anything to do with that?

[811] Nothing that's, nothing there's, that's mandatory.

[812] Okay.

[813] There is, well, the purification program you must know about it.

[814] Yes, where you take a lot of niacin.

[815] Yeah, exactly.

[816] You take a bunch of supplements.

[817] You take a lot of niacin, which is a particular B vitamins, B3.

[818] And then in order to keep your Bs in balance, you have to take a bunch of all their B vitamins and a bunch of other stuff that just helps the detox process.

[819] And a lot of people just end up being like, I feel so good.

[820] Maybe I'll just continue doing some vitamins.

[821] and there are certain things that help also with the lucidity when you're working on things mentally.

[822] What would be one of those?

[823] I think ginkgo blublo -blow, that's how you say it, but I think everyone will know what I'm talking about.

[824] Do you get into ginkgo -blow -blow?

[825] Plinkgo -plow -a.

[826] Mixed with a little ginseng.

[827] Yeah, I mean, hey, I'm game, but the one, the Scientology one is vitamin B -1.

[828] Oh, okay.

[829] You guys love your bees.

[830] We do.

[831] It's all about the bees.

[832] By the way, alcohol is, burns up vitamin B1.

[833] Oh, it does?

[834] It, like binds to it or something?

[835] Yeah, somehow.

[836] And so then you have to either replenish it or have nightmares.

[837] Okay.

[838] Or just take you one anyway.

[839] Who is that a product of B1 deprivation is nightmares?

[840] Yeah.

[841] I mean, like, have you ever done like a painkiller or maybe?

[842] I don't know if you're completely.

[843] I've done a couple hundred, yeah.

[844] But yeah, yeah, when you do painkillers and they.

[845] And then you have gnarly dreams.

[846] Yes, yes, yes.

[847] That's B1.

[848] Oh, it's depleting your B1.

[849] Oh, thank God.

[850] I can finally go back to my opioid addiction.

[851] It was the nightmares that was keeping you away.

[852] Yeah, I was taking a lot of opioids when we first started knowing one another.

[853] There were episodes of Punkt where I was on 30 or 40, like it in.

[854] Whoa.

[855] Yeah.

[856] I'm sure my liver was doing great at that time.

[857] Yeah, but you're bounced right back.

[858] Look at me. Young and Fear, I mean.

[859] When we signed on to do Parent, We had all agreed to do that show in San Francisco.

[860] Yeah.

[861] And I had told myself at the time, oh, no big deal.

[862] That's a 40 -minute flight from L .A. I'll be able to fly up and then fly back down.

[863] I can deal with that.

[864] And on my very initial flight up there for the pilot, I had a full panic attack where I was like, oh my God, I can't live on a fucking airplane four times a week.

[865] I'm going to kill myself.

[866] I can't do this.

[867] And then luckily they moved the show to L .A. for all of us.

[868] Yeah.

[869] But I think it was, I want to say it was in your hotel room there, but maybe it was just, I'm thinking of your trailer.

[870] But when I say you have a lot of supplements, I can't put too fine.

[871] point on this.

[872] I want to say that I have witnessed at least 60 bottles.

[873] You've had, you've had huge moving boxes like when you've had to travel.

[874] It's true.

[875] I think, okay, I said that hasn't waned at all.

[876] I would like to revise that.

[877] I think definitely it has.

[878] Okay.

[879] But as a whole, just throw away, let's not go there because that would be like another boring hour of conversation.

[880] I have had health problems.

[881] And so I have seen, even at that time, like as a teenager, seen, you know, naturopaths and stuff like that.

[882] And they've said like, yeah, this will help with this and this will help with that, not to mention me just devouring nutrition books.

[883] So there was just a lot going on with the vitamins.

[884] Like, I don't know how you found the time to eat all those.

[885] Or if you were even hungry for real food after that.

[886] I'm going to guess that you could probably swallow a real handful of pills, could you?

[887] Not a problem.

[888] Not even, you don't even mean water, huh?

[889] No, no, no. I mean, I need water.

[890] Do you ever, are you gangster enough that you just fucking chew them up in your mouth?

[891] There was, there were some that I would chew.

[892] Oh, wow.

[893] That was, that was a specific doctor who was like, hey, you know what?

[894] For the absorption, chew them up.

[895] Yeah, you got to get it to absorb.

[896] How else would have the effects?

[897] You were, you were born in Seattle, but you grew up here in L .A. Right.

[898] At what age did you guys move here?

[899] We moved here when I was four.

[900] Okay.

[901] So, Dane and Brando were one.

[902] They were one.

[903] Now, Erica's brothers, and I'm sure you can find pictures of them online, and I implore you to do so.

[904] Please do.

[905] They are, they are gorgeous specimen.

[906] What are they?

[907] 6 .5?

[908] 6 .3.

[909] 6.

[910] All right.

[911] Give it 5.

[912] Hey.

[913] All right.

[914] Well, I'll compromise at 6 .4.

[915] Well, if you see any photos of me with them, they'll look seven feet tall.

[916] And you'll be in heels probably in those pictures.

[917] But these two, Monica, P .S. Because they're your age.

[918] How old are they?

[919] They're 30.

[920] They're my age.

[921] Bullseye.

[922] One of them is single.

[923] Interesting.

[924] What are your thoughts on Scientology?

[925] I'm getting more on board during this conversation.

[926] I'll say that.

[927] Well, they are fucking studs.

[928] They're phenoms.

[929] They're physically fit.

[930] Like, you can't imagine.

[931] And then they're both weird as fuck.

[932] And I say that as the ultimate compliment.

[933] They both have, like, really specific interest, right?

[934] They're always, like, kind of pursuing something bizarre.

[935] I love that.

[936] One of them is super into, um, artistically speaking.

[937] Oh, yeah, probably, probably.

[938] Well, they're both, they're into motorcycles.

[939] Uh -huh.

[940] They have great style.

[941] They have, and they definitely, they, like, have a level of not, giving a shit about any of this.

[942] Like they respect people that work hard and have success and they, one of them is a painter and a writer and the other one is a photographer and an actor.

[943] Kind of, both of them very artistic.

[944] But that could flip.

[945] That could flip next month.

[946] Yeah, but you never know which one's which.

[947] Are they twins?

[948] They're identical.

[949] Oh, wow.

[950] There's two for the price of one.

[951] That's really fun.

[952] Have you ever seen this, they must get this all the time.

[953] There's like a real estate show.

[954] or these twin brothers sell real estate.

[955] Have you ever seen that show?

[956] Property brothers.

[957] Property brothers.

[958] I don't like this comparison, although I totally understand it.

[959] Dane and Brando are very studly.

[960] They're more studly than those guys.

[961] But my God, it's almost the exact same thing, Monica.

[962] So if you've seen those guys, you're getting a feel for what's happening here.

[963] No, but they're not attractive to me. That's the only, I think that's mainly, that must be what my objection is.

[964] I'm like, yeah, but Dane and Brando are fucking babies.

[965] Yeah, that's not selling them.

[966] I agree.

[967] I agree.

[968] I just know that when I first clicked on it, like I was blowing through the stations, I go, Jesus, Jonathan.

[969] Brando and Dane are selling fucking condos in Manhattan.

[970] How did this happen?

[971] It's pretty exciting.

[972] They're very much more like, I feel like this is like the grandma way to describe it, but they're very rock and roll compared to the property brothers.

[973] They are.

[974] These guys are very silver, like, very chic and cool and sexy.

[975] And you started young You were in a McDonald's commercial Which just makes me so happy This was before Da da da da da da What was the campaign you Do you even remember?

[976] It was Were you like getting chased By the hamburger or something No I wish Yeah It was just a sweepstakes thing Like Oh for the monopoly thing Yeah I guess so So you would peel off And then you We won a trip to Disneyland I Yes Like that was the audition And then that's what we did On the day of work was just like jump up it down like we won something.

[977] Okay, so mom and dad won a trip by pulling on the supersized Coca -Cola and then you win ape shit.

[978] Yeah.

[979] Do you think you did a good job?

[980] I mean, I got the job.

[981] Well, sometimes you get the job and then you don't execute all that well.

[982] That's true.

[983] You get to the set and you're like, oh, there's a lot of people around here.

[984] God, I remember.

[985] It's so cool remembering like just the first foray into this world.

[986] How old were you?

[987] 12.

[988] 12.

[989] Okay.

[990] And your parents, any resistance to it or is fully?

[991] supportive from the get.

[992] They didn't tell me. They kept it between themselves, but their agreement was to just give me a shot at it and like let me go on auditions for a few weeks or whatever.

[993] Right.

[994] And so within six weeks, which was I think they're like, let's give it, yeah, let's reevaluate in six weeks.

[995] I had booked three national commercials.

[996] Well, let me just say, though, if you're, if you're in Milwaukee right now and you're thinking, I'll go give acting six weeks.

[997] Yeah, I know.

[998] I know it's crazy, but that's, it was a, it was a, very, it was, it was so clearly, you know, worth pursuing for me. And I had no doubt about it.

[999] Like, I was like, yeah, this is, like, I'm getting married to acting.

[1000] Sold rest of my life.

[1001] And based on, did you, did you love TV?

[1002] Did you love musicals?

[1003] Did you love?

[1004] No, now this is weird because it's a, it's a mental leap that I don't know exactly how I made.

[1005] But I had been performing live with this amateur group of kids singing and dancing all over L .A. at like the LA County Fair and old folks homes and whatever right right funerals yeah surely beheading singing and um really being electrified by the experience and by connecting with people from the stage and being like whoa when I sing to someone they invariably will come up to me afterward and talk to me and like it's it's so exciting for both of us and then there was a girl in school who was an actor like actually was getting jobs getting work as an actor you can say a Kate Blanchett.

[1006] Yes.

[1007] She was also, she was in my class.

[1008] And so I knew that to be an actor, you had to have an agent and you had to actually be an actor.

[1009] Like you had to go on auditions and get work and stuff like that and not just perform with your church group.

[1010] And so my parents just started to very like gently dig around like, so what's your interest in?

[1011] You know, you're taking singing lessons and dancing.

[1012] lessons and going to rehearsals and all this stuff so plastic surgery all the bulimia so is that is that leading somewhere so but they were supportive because you were clearly good at it and you were going to and i and i was spending a bunch of time with all of these things that were somewhat related to the endeavor anyway so i was like yeah i want to be an actor right like i want an agent and don't want to do it i want to go on auditions and get work and be an actor you were in a fucking mike jack commercial?

[1013] Oh, yes, music video.

[1014] I'm sorry, music video.

[1015] I got so hung up on wanting to say Mike Jackson and I wanted to nail that that I forgot the second.

[1016] You nailed the Mike Jackson.

[1017] Okay.

[1018] So Mike Jackson, he decides he's going to do a music video or unlike doing the many commercials he's done.

[1019] Right.

[1020] Yeah.

[1021] A beautiful ballad called childhood, which is a really sad song.

[1022] Okay.

[1023] You know, he says, have you seen my childhood?

[1024] Oh, yeah.

[1025] But it's, but it's, It's a very whimsical music video where there are ships in the sky, like flying through the clouds and they hired some kids to be in the ships.

[1026] And so I'm like up in the clouds.

[1027] Did you love Mike Jackson back then?

[1028] I mean, yeah.

[1029] Yeah.

[1030] It was like he's so beyond comprehension though.

[1031] It was like we were going to get to meet him and then he could make it.

[1032] Who can blame him?

[1033] He was out trying to find his childhood.

[1034] He sent me an autographed photo.

[1035] Oh, he did?

[1036] Yeah.

[1037] Do you still have it?

[1038] I mean, I have two storage units, so I hope I still have it.

[1039] Okay.

[1040] Now I want to go to the first time I knew you as an actor, which is traffic.

[1041] Right.

[1042] And one of my, I guess it's in my top ten movies of all time.

[1043] It's so good.

[1044] I fucking love that movie so much.

[1045] And you in particular, like, stood out to me, you and Benicio, del Toro is like who are these people we both love him yes he flip you flip you for real which by the way if you follow erika on twitter her her bio is he flip you he flip you for real no it's i'll flip you flipp you for real but yes but it is the quote yes yes from benicio del toro so if you're deep diving on erika that's what that means um but yeah you were so unbelievably phenomenal i think we worked together for three years on parenthood before i finally got the courage to say to you when you smoke the heroine in that scene and you look up and your eyes are so dilated and that single tear falls out of those big blue eyes how the fuck did you do that how many takes did that take how do you do that at 16 or 17 i think it's the most powerful image in the whole movie which has a ton of powerful images in it do you remember your answer you're like acting gods yeah i guess i i do remember that because it's funny you know you have certain things you get asked uh -huh and that's one of them oh it is Well, it certainly was at the time being that much closer to it.

[1046] Wait, I'm not the only person who recognizes how brilliant that moment was.

[1047] I thought I was so unique.

[1048] So people have asked you that in the past prior to me saying that to you.

[1049] Yeah.

[1050] And it's fun.

[1051] I remember meeting Don Cheadle for the first time because none of us worked together, right?

[1052] Right.

[1053] And he said, how did you get to be so good?

[1054] And I was like, oh, thank you.

[1055] And he was like, no, how did you get to be so good?

[1056] Give me the recipe, bitch.

[1057] Oh, oh, thanks.

[1058] Wait, no, that's not what you're asking.

[1059] Okay.

[1060] I just took it as a compliment, which is really cool.

[1061] Yeah.

[1062] But you just said it just happened, right?

[1063] Yeah, essentially.

[1064] I mean, honestly, the dilated pupils didn't just happen.

[1065] That was done.

[1066] That I called props and asked them if we could hook me up and I went to an optometrist or whatever and got them.

[1067] Those were contacts.

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] And that was that was driven by you that decision?

[1070] It wasn't that.

[1071] You know what?

[1072] That was in the course of all my research.

[1073] since I had done and still have done, as you know, no drugs and had to actually approach it.

[1074] I got a bag of boomers for you and Monica.

[1075] You guys are going to have your first mushroom trip on Armchair expert.

[1076] One of the ways that I approached it was very scientifically.

[1077] I wanted to know everything that was happening to your body during these experiences and then extrapolate what that might feel like and all of that.

[1078] And so learning the difference between like, oh, your pupils are pander.

[1079] or oh, they're super dilated.

[1080] Like, okay, cool.

[1081] And in the course of all of that, I think I was talking to my mom about it.

[1082] And she was like, well, you should get contacts.

[1083] And I was like, you're absolutely right.

[1084] Let me go props right now and see if they can do that.

[1085] And then they did.

[1086] And it was.

[1087] See, that's cool.

[1088] That's what being prepared and carrying results in.

[1089] And I was always confused because, yeah, Coke and meth always make your pupils gigantic.

[1090] Right.

[1091] But opioids usually make them pinholes.

[1092] Right.

[1093] Right.

[1094] I think it was actually, we were free basing crack in that scene.

[1095] Oh, okay.

[1096] It was never as clear as I wanted it to be.

[1097] I totally understand.

[1098] But I thought you were smoking off a tray.

[1099] But at any rate, I fucking love it.

[1100] You were so great.

[1101] When you get traffic now, this is a completely new chapter starts in your life, right?

[1102] Yeah.

[1103] I mean, it's funny because I feel like my life started as me when I was 12, when I got on board with like, this is what I want to do.

[1104] And then absolutely, that was a completely.

[1105] completely different chapter.

[1106] I mean, traffic nominated for everything.

[1107] You won a SAG Award.

[1108] You won, I looked, you won like nine different best perform, you know, best new performer of the year.

[1109] This person's going to be the greatest person of all time awards.

[1110] Like, there were a lot of those awards.

[1111] I wish.

[1112] I love it.

[1113] Breakthrough stars of 2001 you won from People magazine.

[1114] Oh, yeah.

[1115] So I got, I got the popcorn.

[1116] I got the MTV Movie Award.

[1117] Yeah, which is really exciting, isn't it?

[1118] At that time, you're 17?

[1119] Yeah, or I must have been 18.

[1120] Okay.

[1121] At the time, yeah.

[1122] And when that's all happening, what kind of thoughts do you start having?

[1123] And I mean specifically, career -wise, do you think, okay, now I'm going to get to do blank?

[1124] Does your imagination run away with you and what's coming next?

[1125] I'm sure it did, but what it felt like the most was like, there's this big, I mean, it is pretty big.

[1126] but there's this big group of people that make up, you know, quote unquote Hollywood.

[1127] And like now I'm part of it.

[1128] They let me in the door to this party, you know, so.

[1129] And I, I knew it too.

[1130] Like from the beginning, when I got the job, people asked, you know, well, did you ever think in your wildest dreams that this movie would be the success one?

[1131] I was like, yes.

[1132] Like, have you seen this cast?

[1133] Like, yes, I thought it was going to be a big deal.

[1134] Yeah.

[1135] Yeah.

[1136] And it was a big deal.

[1137] Thank God, because it's a great movie.

[1138] And it's done a lot for, you know, really interesting things, you know, like families being able to approach the topic where they never were able to before and all that kind of stuff.

[1139] Well, and it was a really comprehensive look at all three sides, from addiction to policymaking to what's really happening in Mexico.

[1140] It was very, very even -handed with what the, quote, war is on drugs.

[1141] And that was probably the first movie of that.

[1142] I think at the time.

[1143] Yeah.

[1144] Usually it's one side.

[1145] The DA guy.

[1146] Or the drug cartel boss.

[1147] Yeah.

[1148] And this was, I don't want to nerd out.

[1149] But yeah, just the idea that he decided to shoot it with three different film stock so that it was three clearly different perspectives and everything's blue when he's with you guys and everything is yummy and red when he's with Benizio and all that stuff is so cool and sophisticated.

[1150] So that happens.

[1151] You win these awards.

[1152] Do you develop any fantasy?

[1153] Any, any like, I'm going to be a star.

[1154] I'm going to live in a certain house.

[1155] I'm going to have a boyfriend who is Justin Timberlake.

[1156] Like, because you don't, you don't strike me as that type of person.

[1157] I did have all of that.

[1158] Oh, you did.

[1159] But from way before already, you know, like, it was like, I used to lay awake at night, you know, to fall asleep, I would think about like, what's my life going to be like, you know, what do I?

[1160] And I would mostly just like to entertain myself, like just try to think of pretty things.

[1161] Like, you know, think of a pretty house or think of, you know, in the details of like, what is it like to live there and what does it like to have that life?

[1162] And but then it just like all of that validation definitely seemed like, well, you're on the right path.

[1163] You know, like you're going to get some of the things that you set out to to just, you know, selfishly just accumulate, you know, as far as tangible things.

[1164] But, but really it was like, you're allowed to play in this game now.

[1165] Yes.

[1166] And, and I, you know, what was the stress level.

[1167] Recognizing, okay, I'm now in this club.

[1168] The stress of picking correctly, was that, did you feel that or did you not care?

[1169] I did feel that.

[1170] And I did care.

[1171] What would have been a cooler approach was to really do what I try to do, you know, now and since at some point past that time, but really try to find the things that resonate with me. Yeah, what are the, you know, even if I can't express why, just like, I'm a fan of this script for whatever reason, you know, like, I think it's awesome for whatever reason.

[1172] At that time, I was more concerned with just like striking while the iron was hot.

[1173] Yeah, making a great business decision.

[1174] Yeah, and like, and just continuing to work, you know, which is, which is something that most of us also still have as actors.

[1175] You're like, but I need to continue to exist.

[1176] Oh, absolutely.

[1177] Because that feeling you had standing there receiving a popcorn.

[1178] Yeah.

[1179] Unfortunately, that is a very short -lived feeling.

[1180] As great as it feels, within five weeks, you're waking up.

[1181] And if the phone hasn't rung, you're like, did that even happen?

[1182] Oh, my God.

[1183] Everyone forgot.

[1184] Yeah.

[1185] Oh, shit, I passed.

[1186] I had it and then I passed it on accident.

[1187] Like, your mind just starts telling you, you're on such a different time frame than the real world, right?

[1188] Yeah.

[1189] Your days are long in your head, but they're not.

[1190] and other people's.

[1191] It's funny though.

[1192] I mean, the value of having a goal anyway is not in achieving it.

[1193] It's in having it so you have a reason to wake up in the morning.

[1194] And so that's kind of playing the long game is then what you start to realize and start to switch over to like, oh, it's great.

[1195] It's so unique and special and wonderful that I love my job.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] And so, and that it affects people in positive ways and like all of the real reasons why you do it, you know?

[1198] And then you, Oh, gee, I just refocus on that.

[1199] I don't think people realize how critical those decisions you make when you get the keys to the kingdom are.

[1200] And you have no practice.

[1201] Yeah, there's nothing.

[1202] There's almost nowhere to go but down.

[1203] It's you're like standing on top of a mountain.

[1204] Yeah, you just gold medal and something.

[1205] Yeah.

[1206] And you definitely can continue to ride that wave and build on it.

[1207] But it's so critical and so just like.

[1208] It's such an interesting position that you have to make it past that to then be just fine and, you know, have the significance of every individual decision matterless.

[1209] So your first big choice is swim fan, right?

[1210] That's the first leading role like you're going to be on the poster.

[1211] Yeah.

[1212] Yes.

[1213] I had done an independent movie right after that that I, like, I was just thrilled that I could, you know, and I, and it totally resonated with me. And so that was cool.

[1214] And then I guess, yeah, I guess the like first critical decision really that people would be aware of was swim fan.

[1215] And I was very unsure of it.

[1216] Because.

[1217] Because it just didn't resonate with me. And they had offered me first Sherry Appleby's role.

[1218] Uh -huh.

[1219] And I was like, I don't, I don't even know what to do with this, you know, like.

[1220] But you're the seductress in swim fan.

[1221] Is that accurate?

[1222] Right.

[1223] Yes.

[1224] You become obsessed with a girl's father.

[1225] What happened?

[1226] No, girls, high school boyfriend.

[1227] We're all in high school.

[1228] Oh, Jesus.

[1229] Thank God.

[1230] You wish.

[1231] And the dad was named, like, the Dan, Dan Shepard or something.

[1232] He's kind of a goofy -looking guy, but he does have a certain charm.

[1233] He's like, six, nine.

[1234] Wow, you did see it.

[1235] There is a movie like that from my childhood in the 80s where the girl does like the best friend of dad.

[1236] Well, American Beauty, yeah.

[1237] Oh, well, that one, that's not even the one I'm thinking.

[1238] That's not even the one I'm thinking now.

[1239] There's more than one.

[1240] Sure.

[1241] Yeah, there is more than.

[1242] So, no, this was fatal attraction.

[1243] This is a good old fashioned fatal attraction.

[1244] This is fatal attraction.

[1245] Among peers.

[1246] Yes.

[1247] In high school.

[1248] We are all whatever, 18, 17.

[1249] And were you comfortable playing like a sexy figure?

[1250] Yeah.

[1251] It's funny because I kind of was like willing to take other people's word for it.

[1252] I was like, whatever, you know?

[1253] Like, if that's what you see looking at me, then great.

[1254] Because that's all that matter.

[1255] you know and and you were smoking hot at that well you still are but you were crazy hot so that's amazing you know i that was the that was the consensus my my gauge of that would swing wildly i was like okay fine but but the um the wardrobe designer was fantastic and super collaborative and and very um just bolstering of of my confidence like yeah you look amazing and this is how we're going to do it and and going for kind of a retro femme fatale look everyone was awesome about it and i was just ended up being like i will take your word for it yeah yeah which is still my philosophy as an actor well i got to say because we worked together for six years and um you're the easiest person on set in a hundred plus episodes that we did um i think my favorite moment acting and the whole series was you and I outside the restaurant.

[1256] I love that scene.

[1257] I do too.

[1258] I love it so much.

[1259] You know, and it's all because of what you did that made it so amazing.

[1260] The most genuine affection.

[1261] Well, unlike you, I'm not playing the character.

[1262] The opposite of Front.

[1263] That's not true.

[1264] I could see the switch flip when you became Crosby.

[1265] Yeah.

[1266] But in that moment, the line wasn't what ended up.

[1267] It wasn't written.

[1268] ended up being in the scene.

[1269] And I was looking at Erica Christensen, my little buzz.

[1270] And I said to you, it would be impossible not to love you.

[1271] Because that's how I feel about you.

[1272] I'm going to cry again.

[1273] I know.

[1274] And you started crying and then I started crying.

[1275] And it was just so truthfully how I felt about you that it would not be possible to not love you.

[1276] And that whatever Joel's going through is his own shit because not loving you is really not an option for anyone.

[1277] But that was the sweetest moment for me that I can think of.

[1278] Other than like acting with Bell a few times and hit and run where it was like really personal stuff.

[1279] But that was like a very sweet moment out on the sidewalk in Westwood, L .A. And I remember me, you and Larry just being like on a little cloud about how lovely.

[1280] It was just to get to say that to someone you really feel that way about.

[1281] Oh, it was amazing.

[1282] And to have it be on that show where they do let us finesse things and or find those things that what is it that we're really trying to express?

[1283] us here and Larry completely being on board like, well, that's amazing.

[1284] Yeah, do it, do that.

[1285] Larry Trilling, Larry Trulling went up and come over after a take and he'd go, well, you can't do it perfecter.

[1286] So let's move on.

[1287] And you be like, yes.

[1288] Or you say you can't do it perfecter.

[1289] So one more for the joy of Chinema.

[1290] Oh yeah, yeah.

[1291] That was a, yeah.

[1292] I'm going to call him.

[1293] Okay.

[1294] The last thing I want to talk to you about because it's one of your other very eccentric, neat things about you is that just out of absolutely nowhere, you became the most dedicated cyclists on planet Earth.

[1295] Yeah, that was...

[1296] And I mean bicyclists.

[1297] Right.

[1298] There was a moment, and Monica was excited the other day we were talking about this.

[1299] She didn't realize that when you had a cast on the show, your character had a cast.

[1300] I'm a big fan of the show.

[1301] That's awesome.

[1302] Who isn't?

[1303] I know.

[1304] It's so good.

[1305] Do most casts watch their own shows?

[1306] Like, we would watch the show.

[1307] Well, remember, my trick was once I stopped reading.

[1308] the script then I watched the show and I really liked it I remember that I didn't do that until the last season isn't it different it's yeah it's really cool it's so fun and exciting and if there's something that you need to know as a character someone will tell you I would be sometimes in this position right because like I'm not reading the whole script because I want to enjoy the show and I'm thinking well I only need to know my stuff so I'm reading I'm definitely rehearsing my scenes but I will have missed that like someone gave some ex a exposition right like so let's say Adam and Christine would have a scene where it's like, your brother's still not talking to you from the blank fight.

[1309] So I've not read that.

[1310] And then I get there and we'll have a fight.

[1311] And then I'll be talking to the guest director.

[1312] And I don't want to admit to him I don't read the script.

[1313] So I'd be like, yeah, this fight, boy, I'm really mad, huh?

[1314] And he's like, yeah, you're really mad.

[1315] I'm like, because, man, that upset me. I'm like trying to get him to tell me why I'm mad.

[1316] Oh, my God.

[1317] Without saying why am I mad because I know I should have read it at some point.

[1318] Oh, my God.

[1319] Oh, Jesus.

[1320] Oh, God, you know what would fucking drive you crazy about May Whitman when she came over the other day?

[1321] You know what her fuck?

[1322] Oh, I guess I can't say what it says.

[1323] Yeah, I can say what it says because you won't really be able to figure it out.

[1324] Her license plate on her car made Monica and I want to kill ourselves.

[1325] Her fucking license plates say clear eyes full hearts.

[1326] Come on.

[1327] Isn't that devastating?

[1328] Damn it.

[1329] Yeah, because that's what we really bonded on over at the board pile.

[1330] Yeah.

[1331] On the pilot, we started watching.

[1332] Friday Night Lights.

[1333] Week one, week two of the whole.

[1334] We became so obsessed.

[1335] And you had such a crush on Saracen.

[1336] Oh, I did.

[1337] Oh, yeah.

[1338] I think we even tried to get a hold of them.

[1339] I did.

[1340] I was willing to just say try and I was leave it to you whether you were going to say you did.

[1341] I have made certain choices in this conversation, but I totally got in touch with him.

[1342] And then I've seen him in recent years and he's like married with children and I told him, I think I told him like, I'm engaged.

[1343] And he was like, that's so awesome.

[1344] he was telling me how great married life is and stuff and I was like oh full circle this is good yeah but maybe just one weekend out in Santa Barbara wouldn't hurt anyone you know maybe some mushrooms a little light MDMA hey all of it okay but how did you get into this bicycling thing because it was really bizarre it's it's still so bizarre but okay the sequence was I was over at Ethan's house our mutual friend Ethan, Sopley, who had lost 200 pounds.

[1345] Yeah, I think at that point, literally 300.

[1346] I think he was 510 in Butterfly Effect.

[1347] Well, he was 200 at his cycling peak.

[1348] He continued to lose weight after that, I think, because we were so gnarly about it.

[1349] Yeah.

[1350] But I hadn't seen him since like 100 pounds.

[1351] Yeah.

[1352] And so I was just like, okay, what is happening?

[1353] Yeah, he was like a bodybuilder.

[1354] Yeah.

[1355] So what's happening?

[1356] And he was like, I started ride bikes.

[1357] and he took me into the garage and showed me all of his beautiful, expensive bicycles.

[1358] And I'll have him on here someday because I think you and I will both agree he's the most fascinating person on planet Earth, right?

[1359] He's fucking wonderful.

[1360] Yeah, magic.

[1361] And he and his whole family, extended family, they're just the best people.

[1362] He mentioned a couple guys that I knew from two completely separate social groups neither one would he have any connection to otherwise and he was like do you happen to know him do you have to know him we all ride together we go Fridays 645 a .m. Yeah I'm out right there I know right I know I was never a morning person except for work like the only two reasons I would get up early are for work and then cycling yeah and he said he said here's the deal this was a Sunday right he said here's the deal go to the bike shop tomorrow talk to Matt uh -huh get yourself a bike and then show up at 6 .45 a .m. on Friday.

[1363] And I was like, done.

[1364] And I went and I, I talked to Matt and I was working.

[1365] Yeah.

[1366] So I had to come after work when I finally, I bought a bike and then they had to fit me for it, you know, and I had to buy my Lycra and everything.

[1367] And they stayed open late Thursday night in order to get me all hooked up for the Friday morning ride.

[1368] Sure.

[1369] And that first morning ride.

[1370] I was living right down the block from here.

[1371] That way, actually.

[1372] And I rode to West Hollywood to meet up with everybody at 645.

[1373] So I got up at like five.

[1374] I mean, I was like so excited and eat and I didn't know how long it would take to get there.

[1375] And then we rode 30 miles together.

[1376] And then I rode back home.

[1377] And I was for the next 48 hours, could not eat enough food.

[1378] Like my body was like, what is happening, just famished, but obsessed.

[1379] And then wrote essentially the next day and the next day and the next day and the next day.

[1380] Yes, you rode every single day.

[1381] You rode to parenthood.

[1382] You rode home.

[1383] But that wouldn't count.

[1384] I think I drove you home once or twice.

[1385] Yeah, I bet that's true too.

[1386] Later something.

[1387] Again, more just rumor mill stuff for us to be dropping out.

[1388] All this time they spent together alone.

[1389] Who was there to witness?

[1390] You can corroborate.

[1391] Your body changed so radically, so quickly, like within six months of doing this.

[1392] I used to call you what, a Robert Crumb drawing.

[1393] You were just like powerful ass and legs.

[1394] That's amazing.

[1395] Yeah.

[1396] And it's funny too because it's one of those things that like, you know, I have a feeling that people when they get plastic surgery or they're transitioning or whatever.

[1397] Like there's something so just feels so innately like this is actually who I am.

[1398] I mean, obviously transitioning.

[1399] But I imagine with plastic surgery and stuff, like you see a different face or whatever.

[1400] And you're like, yeah, but this is who I actually am.

[1401] Yes.

[1402] It felt like that.

[1403] It was like, yeah, but this is who I actually am, who I've been under all those extra curves.

[1404] Uh -huh.

[1405] Previously.

[1406] And so.

[1407] It was, I mean.

[1408] It was jaw -dropping.

[1409] Like, it was a really radical transformation.

[1410] Not that you didn't have a great body beforehand, but you just all of a sudden look like you could kick through a fucking steel door.

[1411] I think I spent 90 % of our conversations just talking about your cabs and stuff, wouldn't you say?

[1412] I couldn't get enough of that.

[1413] I mean, and they're crazy still and I haven't ridden a bike and God knows how long now.

[1414] But that's where you kind of met Cole through this bike riding thing.

[1415] And your husband, Cole rides, I guess, as close as you can ride to being a professional and not do it for a living.

[1416] Sure.

[1417] Or, well, and not even race to have a gauge against how fast you really are.

[1418] But he definitely was deeper into it than I was.

[1419] Yes.

[1420] For many, many years.

[1421] Yeah.

[1422] For way longer than I have been.

[1423] If I could, I mean, it's embarrassing to even like try to claim it now because it's been a long time.

[1424] Yeah.

[1425] And is something you want to go back to?

[1426] It is.

[1427] I definitely call it.

[1428] But it was an addiction.

[1429] right like you recognize it as oh yeah i don't know if i would have time for that addiction right yeah absolutely yeah because ethan two fell out of it and then we'll go back and forth but it's like a whole thing it's a whole thing it's it's really hard to like go half assed yeah because also you have a memory of the level of skill and athleticism that you once had yes so to try and engage on a lower level is just not fun yeah it's it's just demeaning you Yeah.

[1430] I mean, the last ride that I went on was four months ago.

[1431] And then before that, it had been at least that long.

[1432] Okay.

[1433] And I was really glad that I didn't just die on the ride that I went on a few months ago because I was already a couple months pregnant and I was like, I haven't rid my bike in forever, but my buddies that I went with were like, don't worry, we're going to take it easy.

[1434] It's going to be fine.

[1435] I did 50 miles.

[1436] and it was okay, you know, I was like, all right.

[1437] A nice little light jaw.

[1438] Yeah, easy.

[1439] Take it easy.

[1440] Even 50.

[1441] Yeah.

[1442] Now, when you crashed, what happened?

[1443] You weren't, you weren't, I'm dying to, I've been dying to ask you this question for three years and I always forget to ask you when I see you.

[1444] But you crash somewhere in Malibu, right?

[1445] Actually, it was on Mandeville Canyon, which is kind of notorious for being dangerous.

[1446] My sunset.

[1447] What is that?

[1448] Brentwood.

[1449] Yeah.

[1450] In between Brentwood.

[1451] palisades.

[1452] Yeah.

[1453] So over there, we were coming down that hill.

[1454] Right.

[1455] Very steep hill.

[1456] Yeah.

[1457] I mean, yeah, at the end it is.

[1458] It was not even, you can get a lot of speed going.

[1459] And so there was a little clump of us, a little cluster of us coming down this hill and this car in front of us, I guess, slammed on their brakes or was just going slower or something.

[1460] And so fully operator error on my part.

[1461] In motocross, we say you ran out of talent.

[1462] There you go.

[1463] I fully just ran out of talent.

[1464] If I had, I like that.

[1465] Because it's not the weather conditions.

[1466] It's not the road conditions.

[1467] The bike is perfectly fine.

[1468] But I, if I had just been able to keep my cool a half a second longer and not grab a fistful of brakes.

[1469] Yeah.

[1470] I'm sure you can relate.

[1471] There's, it was just.

[1472] too much and front end washed out no back wheel locked up and was all of a sudden here okay I was like uh okay yeah it's right there so then I think I think I think I high -sided and bounced and then rolled so like it went out from under me and then when I went over landed on my right wrist that's what broke and then I tumbled down the hill and I was like I'm fine and everybody's like no I don't think so I don't think you are yeah yeah yeah you're you're you're you're I've been in many crashes and I've always leapt up.

[1473] I'm fine many times been in an emergency room an hour later.

[1474] But here's the thing I've been dying to ask you.

[1475] So I knew that part of the story.

[1476] But then someone told me that months after that crash, I can't remember what friends like, hey man, I think I saw your sister on TV like on Mandeville Canyon with a few other people just kind of milling around on the street.

[1477] And I was like, did you go back to the crash site?

[1478] Yeah.

[1479] So this is real.

[1480] This is true.

[1481] I love that.

[1482] Oh, my goodness.

[1483] It's true.

[1484] And then here's where I took it in my fantasy.

[1485] Yeah.

[1486] And tell me how inaccurate I am.

[1487] I love it.

[1488] I'm familiar with this concept from Dianetics called Ngrams, right?

[1489] And I'll tell you my lay person's understanding of Ngrams.

[1490] Okay.

[1491] Am I even saying that part right?

[1492] Yeah, you are.

[1493] Ngram.

[1494] So the example I believe in the book, is a woman's in a house, an intruder comes in.

[1495] She gets raped.

[1496] She was in the middle of doing dishes.

[1497] This is this traumatic, terrible experience.

[1498] And then for the rest of her life, without her really having any awareness of it, when she sees drapes flapping in the wind, that triggers her and raises her anxiety.

[1499] When she hears running water, that triggers her anxiety.

[1500] When she sees just an open door that no one shut, that triggers anxiety.

[1501] So that she has linked all these things in her environment to this trauma that happened to her and that those things are almost now permanently in her as traumatic even though obviously drapes blowing is not traumatic and vice versa and that the goal is to deconstruct an engram and to detach all these things you've put onto this trauma is that an accurate that's that's pretty accurate yeah because everything that occurred at that time everything that you took in yes we're part of that and And are completely illogically associated with that.

[1502] Yes.

[1503] And then the only thing you have to do is examine all of it closely enough that it no longer has any power.

[1504] And then you're fine to leave the drapes blowing.

[1505] Right.

[1506] So is that what happened?

[1507] Did you go back to that site to unplug certain things you may have accidentally connected with the experience?

[1508] Basically, no, but it is a Scientology thing.

[1509] So here's the satisfaction.

[1510] So the way that you would address the mental aspect of it and those associations is just sitting in a room with someone else who is trained in Dianetics and they take you back and you re -experience it and -fill out as many details as you can.

[1511] Yeah.

[1512] And then once it all is completely clear to you, it's like if you were hypnotized and told every time I say Apple, you have to scratch your neck.

[1513] But as soon as someone tells you, no, you were just hypnotized to scratch your neck every time I say Apple.

[1514] Then you're like, oh, fine.

[1515] You don't have to anymore.

[1516] Uh -huh, right.

[1517] That's all it is.

[1518] Yes.

[1519] You're aware of it has no power anymore.

[1520] But the physical aspect of it is that the body can kind of go through a similar process of retaining that trauma.

[1521] And then so in re -experiencing that, gently not to re -injure yourself.

[1522] Uh -huh.

[1523] you can kind of erase that and that it heal better.

[1524] Oh, really?

[1525] So you, in like, as we'd say in acting, you did like a half -speed rehearsal on the crash?

[1526] Yeah.

[1527] You did.

[1528] I did, which was not easy because first of all, I had to figure out what the hell had happened.

[1529] Yeah.

[1530] And then I had to figure out how to do it again, which is like super awkward.

[1531] Like, okay, so I felt this way and then I felt over the bike, climb over the bike.

[1532] Right.

[1533] Like this way, but do it enough times that all of a sudden there's some relief there, just some sense of relief.

[1534] And did you experience that?

[1535] Yeah.

[1536] And I was just like, yeah, it took a while.

[1537] So you did this more than one time?

[1538] Oh, no, it was all at like over the course of maybe an hour or whatever.

[1539] Okay.

[1540] So, but you did kind of reenact the accident more than one time.

[1541] Yeah.

[1542] Okay.

[1543] And then the folks that are there, what are they there to do?

[1544] To make sure I don't get hit by a car in the meantime.

[1545] Oh, okay.

[1546] So you're kind of on your own as far as reenacting the, The trauma and everything?

[1547] Yeah.

[1548] I mean, you could have somebody, if you want to, you could have somebody tell you, okay, like start from the beginning or whatever.

[1549] But you basically would go through it.

[1550] I mean, it's much more, it's interesting because it's such a complicated injury to normally, like, if you stubbed your toe or whatever, you're like, oh, that's a, I could.

[1551] A equal, A plus B equals C. Yeah, I could just stub my toe more gently several times.

[1552] It'll hurt worse at first and then it'll go away.

[1553] Okay.

[1554] fine and it takes 10 seconds and it's over and you don't need anybody's help or whatever.

[1555] But being that it was such a complicated situation, I had like my mom out there asking people not to hit me in the meantime, like, can you just wait a second?

[1556] Okay, can you, you know?

[1557] So my friend might have actually been in a traffic jam you created.

[1558] Yeah, probably, probably.

[1559] The neighborhood is not sighted.

[1560] Yeah, clearly this person couldn't have like driven by you at 40 and noticed it was you and all this.

[1561] No, they probably saw me right up close real slow and, and me. like acting out of bicycle accident?

[1562] And are you self -conscious while this is happening or you don't give a flying fuck?

[1563] I mean, somewhere in the middle.

[1564] Like, part of me is totally aware that it looks bizarre.

[1565] Yeah.

[1566] Like, yeah, I mean, I don't know.

[1567] People don't know what I'm doing.

[1568] But it's totally worth doing.

[1569] So I don't care.

[1570] Yeah, absolutely.

[1571] You know, I have psoriotic arthritis, super sexy disease.

[1572] I've tried every single thing under the sun.

[1573] And I mean, everything.

[1574] I've been frozen.

[1575] I've had stem cells put in my wrist.

[1576] I've had PRP, I've had, you know, every kind of Western medicine therapy.

[1577] And then Kristen was like, you're going to do an RVA to cleanse for a week.

[1578] Yeah.

[1579] And I'm like, yeah, I don't believe in that.

[1580] But I'll go on one second.

[1581] Results oriented.

[1582] Why wouldn't I fucking try every conceivable solution to this thing?

[1583] And I was on a table getting anemone.

[1584] I was like, how did I end up here?

[1585] What is going on?

[1586] There's a stranger pumping my ass full of coffee.

[1587] Oh, my God.

[1588] Well, fuck, I did it.

[1589] I don't care.

[1590] It didn't, it didn't shatter my identity to have some coffee enemas.

[1591] Hey.

[1592] Look, I'll try anything.

[1593] Results oriented.

[1594] I like it.

[1595] So is there anything?

[1596] Do you know what you're doing next?

[1597] You're just having a baby next.

[1598] That's what you're focused on.

[1599] I'm having a baby next.

[1600] I got to do a movie that's going to come out at some point called Clover.

[1601] Oh.

[1602] Which not Clover Field.

[1603] No, no. Clover.

[1604] Okay.

[1605] Zero relation.

[1606] I hope people are confused, though, because that's a huge movie, Cloverfield.

[1607] I'm in this movie.

[1608] clover blank um it's like uh it's a mafia comedy it's like goodfellas is a comedy right yeah yeah one of my favorite yeah so it's it's a comedy in that vein where it's very violent but it's a comedy great um and very dark but it's a comedy and are you doing any tv i don't know i well know i'm not right with kids isn't it so appealing because you're at home Well, if I were, I mean, if I had the opportunity to do parenthood, six years of parenthood right now, then I would do that.

[1609] I'd do 100 years of parenthood.

[1610] I'd want to get paid a little more, but, you know, still.

[1611] Gosh, that really didn't happen for us.

[1612] But yeah, I don't, it's so interesting, you know, that phenomenon you were talking about with pleasing the director and the producers and the writer and then, and all the higher reps and that, that whole phenomenon is the worst in, in network television.

[1613] There's so many cooks in the kitchen.

[1614] And for parenthood, we didn't even have that.

[1615] No. But it's really, it's a real tough game.

[1616] And when they get it right, they get it right.

[1617] And when they don't, they don't.

[1618] And so I've been trying to play that game.

[1619] And it just hasn't been working out for me. And I've just been like, yeah.

[1620] Well, one thing that's unique about film, which is so great, is you go away.

[1621] You're in camp for three months.

[1622] No one knows if it's good or bad because, fuck, it's not going to be edited for another six months.

[1623] Right.

[1624] So we're all just working under the assumption that you're making.

[1625] citizen Kane and that's really liberating and fun but when you're on the show man that thing starts coming out and you start realizing I'm in a stinker or I'm in something great but but you get the proof and now people start panicking around you and now the whole environment right becomes scared and trying to save something as opposed to create something that's all scary yeah and are you going to get canceled which never happens with the movie and also ratings is so specific such a weird factor in everybody's lives and we never had great ratings anyway so so it was like well they're not going to take you off the air and that was always we're like well we get to keep making our show okay good yeah yeah um well i love you well tell people how to get a get a follow you on instagram and twitter what are your handles i love you and um my instagram is erika chrinson okay well by the way i can't spell that yeah yeah it's It's S -E -N, not son.

[1626] I would think son.

[1627] It still is son, you know, the meaning, but it's Danish.

[1628] Those fucking Danes.

[1629] Hey, what are you going to do?

[1630] They do not want an O at the end of their name.

[1631] Oh, and it's also not Christians, and it's C -H -R -I -S -E -N -S -E -N.

[1632] Yeah.

[1633] Good luck spelling that, guys.

[1634] Hey, Google will figure it out.

[1635] Yeah, Google her.

[1636] It's just Google Swim fan and buckle up, guys.

[1637] And Erica's with a K, so there's that too.

[1638] Just in case the last name didn't fuck you up, the first name now.

[1639] Well, I adore you.

[1640] Thank you for helping me assemble the whole parenthood.

[1641] We're slowly chipping our way through the most loving cast to my knowledge.

[1642] You know what?

[1643] I realized at a certain point that I was taking us for granted.

[1644] I was just like, everybody's brilliant at their job.

[1645] So there's no basis of comparison.

[1646] Everybody's brilliant on this show.

[1647] Even the kids.

[1648] It was just like, and everybody's great to each other.

[1649] Like, oh, it's not always like this.

[1650] But hey, but it is right now.

[1651] And it was glorious.

[1652] I've made a lot of mistakes.

[1653] That's the one of the few I didn't make.

[1654] I was like, this is heaven.

[1655] This is heaven on earth.

[1656] Four days a week.

[1657] Say what you want, eight hours.

[1658] You love everyone.

[1659] Fucking get real.

[1660] When does that happen?

[1661] If we could just get paid.

[1662] Let's do it again.

[1663] Yeah, yeah, there's that.

[1664] All right.

[1665] Love you for real this time.

[1666] Love you.

[1667] Bye.

[1668] Stay tuned if you'd like to hear my good friend and producer Monica Padman point out the many errors in the podcast you just heard.

[1669] Monica, walk us through the errors.

[1670] Okay, I will.

[1671] Erica was a little hazy on when swim fan came out.

[1672] Mm -hmm.

[1673] It came out in August of 2002.

[1674] Mm -hmm.

[1675] I was only a baby.

[1676] You were, you were, what, a four -year -old baby?

[1677] Yeah.

[1678] Just a tiny four -year -old spit -up.

[1679] You said that when Punk came out, a lot of, they were pretty far into that 70 show, seasons -wise, because then you were invited, and then you had fun there and you met all those people.

[1680] Right.

[1681] And Punk came out in 2003, which was season six of that 70 show.

[1682] So you were right.

[1683] Okay, good, good.

[1684] They were a well -oiled machine by the time I started.

[1685] Although we started hanging out when we shot the pilot.

[1686] And then the pilot was delayed for a year because of a lawsuit, blah, blah, blah.

[1687] So maybe I started going there around season four or five.

[1688] But regardless, they were in their stride and they had nice cars.

[1689] They had renegotiated.

[1690] And they knew how to party.

[1691] She said that she thought they shot traffic between seasons one and two of that 70s show.

[1692] And traffic came out in 2000, which was season two.

[1693] So, yes, they must have shot between those two seasons, right?

[1694] Yeah.

[1695] So she was right.

[1696] She had a good memory.

[1697] Yeah, she really is.

[1698] She is crystal clear.

[1699] She kept talking about wanting to maintain her clarity.

[1700] And she is very crystal clear.

[1701] Yeah, it was funny.

[1702] I do not...

[1703] You're not naturally drawn to Scientology.

[1704] Is that what you're going to say?

[1705] Yes.

[1706] I'm not drawn to Scientology.

[1707] I'm not going to become a Scientologist.

[1708] Right.

[1709] But there are many things that she said that I was like, I really get it, what she's saying, and I understand, I understand some of the draws, especially when she was talking about clearing words.

[1710] Right.

[1711] I was like, that's great.

[1712] We should all probably be clearing words.

[1713] Absolutely.

[1714] And so what you were having is the experience I've been having now for about 12 years, which is I have a lot of personal friends who are Scientologists.

[1715] So that was probably the first person you were around talking about Scientology.

[1716] Openly, yeah.

[1717] And looking at the human being.

[1718] going, well, I mean, yeah, there's, maybe there were slaves or whatever.

[1719] I don't know.

[1720] But this person I'm looking at is very clear, is very bright and is very happy.

[1721] So you got to put that in, you know, into the stew.

[1722] Yeah, it's got to go into the stew with all the other elements too.

[1723] Yeah, absolutely.

[1724] Yeah, agree.

[1725] Which I think I was honest about, right?

[1726] I told her I read going clear and all that.

[1727] Yeah.

[1728] I read the critical stuff and the positive stuff.

[1729] Yeah.

[1730] I know.

[1731] It's a weird dilemma, right?

[1732] Because let's say you are a part of an organization that's doing wonderful things for you.

[1733] Of course you're going to keep doing that and you're going to defend it and you're probably not going to look too hard at some of the.

[1734] Why?

[1735] Why would you?

[1736] If you're happy and feeling self -actualized, this thing's working.

[1737] I tried to parallel it with AA and I totally sympathize with people who think it's a cult.

[1738] Yeah.

[1739] And maybe they've, you know, they've had loved ones who got weird after the.

[1740] they joined it.

[1741] Yeah.

[1742] My point kind of was, I don't mind acknowledging that.

[1743] I also don't mind reading criticism of it.

[1744] Right.

[1745] You know?

[1746] I guess though it's, it's a little different with AA maybe because some of the critique of Scientology is really like they, they are doing criminal.

[1747] Criminal stuff.

[1748] Exactly.

[1749] But I guarantee you in the history of AA since 1930, there have been sponsors who have molested sponsors.

[1750] I bet there are people who have really abused their, their heightened position in the program that seems more um individual and not institutional yeah so i guess it is a dilemma like how if something's working for you but potentially is causing harm to other people to other people how much i mean i don't know the answer to that i really don't but it's it's interesting here's a great thing we all get to do our own thing you get to pick whatever thing you're going to be interested in and it's your prerogative and it's great because you're free to do that yeah yeah yeah I like that you are but I don't think we should outlaw anything to you I mean yeah I shouldn't outlaw the the evangelical religion or yeah it just everything becomes so fine line right because no we should we can we should not and cannot outlaw any religions and we shouldn't but um I don't want to use this example because it's like the stoop it's such a it's such an extreme i don't even want to use it but i can't think of a less extreme one the nazi party what if there are people who getting tons of fulfillment out of that not engaging in any of the killing right or anti -semitism how you it's still that has to stop yeah that's a as you as you as you own That's a pretty extreme example.

[1751] It's extreme, but there's some extreme, there's some extreme stuff being said about Scientology.

[1752] Yeah, but to go back to our favorite documentary, Wild Wild Country, what I did, there were a moment for me that was a good warning sign for myself was at the very end of the documentary, there is a guy in Antelope basically bragging that he was never outsmarted by the Rajneeshis and that they were following a false prophet.

[1753] and the whole thing was exposed to have nefarious goals with poisoning the people and the dows, blah, blah, blah.

[1754] He felt very victorious and he felt very validated.

[1755] But then I just looked at that guy.

[1756] I looked at that guy in his life and how much joy was in it and what is maybe health level was versus these people who had been duped who are dancing and fucking and are thin and are eating well and are living this great beautiful life.

[1757] Yeah.

[1758] The result of which you can get really hung up in what.

[1759] the process by which it bears these results, you can start tearing apart this and finding holes and you could maybe miss the bigger picture of like, well, if I got to pick one life I'm living at 65 years old, I'm going to pick that lawyer in the documentary, not the guy who was right because I often think who I'm right.

[1760] Intellectually I prove my point, but then the results of me being right might be a shitty life.

[1761] That's worth considering.

[1762] Yeah, it's worth considering.

[1763] I mean, that translates to Christianity, too.

[1764] Yeah, absolutely.

[1765] Which you are not.

[1766] I'm pretty critical of.

[1767] Yeah.

[1768] But I'm, yes, but to be specific about what I'm critical about is that I am critical of patriarchal hierarchies.

[1769] But you're also critical of, in the belief in what you presume to be totally unbelievable things.

[1770] Proposterous ideas.

[1771] Well, I also, I think.

[1772] I think that one of the things that bothers me is I think it's laziness and a total lack of belief in our own powers and competence to think that a book that was written by people 5 ,000 years ago who thought the earth was flat was that we should continue for all of mankind to follow what they knew, that there's no progression, that there's no more understanding, that you're locked into this text, you're living your life based on a text that was written with very limited knowledge of how the physical world works.

[1773] Yeah.

[1774] That's troubling to me. I'm concerned about that.

[1775] I also, I get a little nervous when people, I cherish our constitution.

[1776] But I do not revere it as the most perfect thing that's ever been written and that it should never evolve to acknowledge new information.

[1777] I think reverie for a text is a little dangerous.

[1778] Right.

[1779] But it's all reverie for a text, reverie for a person.

[1780] It's all that.

[1781] Yeah.

[1782] It's all just picking a token to worship.

[1783] And in keeping with this conversation, if most people, their lives are better because they adhere to the Bible and they trust it and they believe every word in it.

[1784] Ryan and Amy.

[1785] I'll say all that stuff I just said.

[1786] And then I look at Ryan and Amy, who I think are two of the most perfect people.

[1787] have ever met my life.

[1788] They're living the best, most wholesome, wonderful life.

[1789] They're the best parents.

[1790] They're fun.

[1791] They're everything.

[1792] And it is 100 % grounded in them being Christians.

[1793] That is really the driving force for that.

[1794] So I acknowledge that.

[1795] Yeah.

[1796] Who's laughing laughs that?

[1797] That I said, oh, well, your book thinks the world was flat.

[1798] And then Ryan's like, yeah, great.

[1799] I'm an awesome dad and I'm a great dude and you're, you know.

[1800] Yeah.

[1801] Yeah.

[1802] So I acknowledge that.

[1803] Well, it also isn't, it doesn't mean you can't be those things without it either.

[1804] Correct.

[1805] But it just for them, it happens to be, yes.

[1806] Yeah, really great results.

[1807] And then there's people who's, you know, they're getting their babies bit by a rattlesnake because that's how you cure them according to their text.

[1808] So that's the bad version.

[1809] Right.

[1810] Okay.

[1811] So, so you talked about Wilmer, Balderrama.

[1812] Great job pronouncing.

[1813] name.

[1814] Thank you.

[1815] And what a light he is.

[1816] And then you also talked about his dancing with his sister.

[1817] And you could not recall the name of the dance.

[1818] I think Eric and I both suggested salsa.

[1819] And I don't know what he did because I wasn't there.

[1820] But he's from Venezuela, right?

[1821] Yes.

[1822] Venezuela.

[1823] He's from Venezuela.

[1824] And I'm probably going to pronounce this wrong.

[1825] Joropo.

[1826] Horopo.

[1827] Geraldo Revereo is the national dance of Venezuela and it originated in Spain and it consists of 36 steps and it's a dance for couples so it might have been what he was doing it's fucking beautiful whatever it was you can call it by any name what is it what's the Shakespearean thing something by any name is still a something yeah I can't think of that by any other name a rose a rose by any other name still smells is sweet.

[1828] Oh, a rose by any other name would smell is sweet.

[1829] Mm -hmm.

[1830] Mm -hmm.

[1831] Fact.

[1832] Fact.

[1833] Okay.

[1834] I don't know if it's called the poop flower and so I'm, and you were introduced to the rose as the poop flower.

[1835] You might, your brain actually might boggle the scent.

[1836] You might, you might file it in the wrong cabinet.

[1837] It might, but it shouldn't.

[1838] Because it does not.

[1839] It smells the same.

[1840] Objectively, it smells the same.

[1841] Mm -hmm.

[1842] Okay, so you said one of the five pillars of Islam is donations.

[1843] Yeah, making alms.

[1844] Is that what it's called?

[1845] Charity.

[1846] Charity is probably the one you're referring to.

[1847] Faith, prayer, charity, fasting, and pilgrimage.

[1848] To Mecca.

[1849] Which I've done twice.

[1850] But according to the Quran, I guess, the charity portion has to be distributed in the the community from which it was taken.

[1851] So it's...

[1852] Oh, that's interesting.

[1853] They take it and then they give it.

[1854] It's not donation.

[1855] It's charity.

[1856] Right.

[1857] But what's interesting about that, so it's supposed to go to the community from which it was taken or mind.

[1858] Because I'm reading this book called Shadow Something, I'm listening to it on Audible, that is about the CIA's operation in Afghanistan to fight back from the Soviet invasion.

[1859] And we were funding a ton of the, Mujahideans that were fighting, but also Saudi Arabia was funding a ton of that.

[1860] And the reason it was so easy, or at least says this book, it was so easy to get money from Saudi Arabia is that it is a pillar of Islam.

[1861] So they are, they are very charitable.

[1862] And so they were very quick to donate lots and lots of money to the Afghans to help fight off the social union.

[1863] It's, you know, very institutionalized in their culture.

[1864] Yeah, it's part of it, charity.

[1865] But it was leaving.

[1866] That's the only thing, I guess.

[1867] I was saying I was pointing out that the money was leaving Saudi Arabia.

[1868] But that might be additional.

[1869] It might just be like, we'll do whatever to foster this, these ideas, I guess.

[1870] I guess.

[1871] But of the pillars, five pillars.

[1872] Donations is not one.

[1873] Charity.

[1874] Yeah, that's what I mean.

[1875] But it's not the same.

[1876] Donations to the church is different than charity to the community.

[1877] Oh, I got, I see what you're saying now.

[1878] Yes, because tithing is you give 10 % of your.

[1879] income to the church.

[1880] Yes, I got you.

[1881] To help the church.

[1882] Well, no, but then the church distributes that.

[1883] They have all sorts of programs for kids and feeding people and they run, you know.

[1884] Yeah.

[1885] I don't think the assumption is the, well, although the Catholic Church seems to have kept a lot of it because if you've ever been in the Vatican.

[1886] Yeah.

[1887] But I do think the premise is they're going to redistribute it.

[1888] Mm -hmm.

[1889] You don't think so?

[1890] Maybe.

[1891] Yeah.

[1892] Okay.

[1893] Okay.

[1894] Okay, which she talked about clearing words, as I mentioned earlier, and she said most words are Latin, which is pretty clear.

[1895] But 80 % of the entries in any English dictionary are borrowed mainly from Latin.

[1896] Over 60 % of all English words have Greek or Latin roots.

[1897] In the vocabulary of the sciences and technology, the figure rises to over 90%.

[1898] Those crazy, the genus and species names are always so platy.

[1899] They are.

[1900] They are.

[1901] It's hard to remember.

[1902] I sure are.

[1903] Almost saping.

[1904] Yeah, you like that one.

[1905] How many levels do Scientology have 15 levels?

[1906] Oh.

[1907] But the church only offers eight.

[1908] That's interesting.

[1909] Yeah.

[1910] Or do you get the other seven?

[1911] Maybe you can't.

[1912] So what I did is I took 15.

[1913] I subtracted eight.

[1914] Okay.

[1915] Okay.

[1916] So she said going clear isn't available.

[1917] in all of all countries because they have stricter libel laws.

[1918] Under English and Welsh law, the burden of proof and defamation cases resist exclusively on the defendant, which means that if someone sues you, it's up to you to prove it's true.

[1919] Ah.

[1920] So does that mean that book's not available in England?

[1921] Correct.

[1922] Oh, really?

[1923] Is it?

[1924] Oh.

[1925] Cool.

[1926] But I mean cool in that she was right.

[1927] Oh, yeah.

[1928] She was right.

[1929] Yeah, definitely.

[1930] Oh, I haven't to ask you this before.

[1931] I wish you could tell us the name.

[1932] of the romantic hotel with the Great Grilled Cheese because I'm sure people will want to go there.

[1933] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1934] It's the, it's the Carmel Valley Ranch.

[1935] What a great grilled cheese.

[1936] I want that right now.

[1937] Yeah, I'll take you on a lover's retreat there and we'll walk.

[1938] It'll be very similar to Eric and I's experience because people will be like, oh, God, they do a podcast together and now they're checking into one.

[1939] A lot of things will flow through their brain.

[1940] It'll be worth it for the grilled cheese because.

[1941] I want that.

[1942] Yeah, 100%.

[1943] Even if I get divorced, it's totally worth it.

[1944] The grilled cheese is that good.

[1945] How many cheeses in that grilled cheese?

[1946] I don't think it's a bunch of different cheeses that makes it so good.

[1947] It is the bread.

[1948] The way the bread is the quality of the bread and the way they cook it to perfection.

[1949] And I've had a dozen there and they've all been cooked to absolute perfection.

[1950] I hope they give me like a free stay there and a free grilled cheese out of talking about it.

[1951] Do you think the postmates?

[1952] From Carmel.

[1953] Yeah.

[1954] I bet it won't be that crispy.

[1955] Oh my God.

[1956] I wish Postmates sponsored us.

[1957] It's five hours and 12 minutes away by car right now.

[1958] Okay.

[1959] So if we order it now, we'll have it by dinner.

[1960] We could be eating there at 7 .40 tonight.

[1961] That's barring any traffic.

[1962] I really want that.

[1963] I've been thinking about it ever since you said it.

[1964] I'll make that dream come true.

[1965] Okay.

[1966] I'm going to pledge that.

[1967] Okay.

[1968] I can do it.

[1969] You refer to going to Seth's wedding a lot in this.

[1970] And that's Seth Green.

[1971] Correct?

[1972] Yes, not Seth McFarland or Seth.

[1973] Or Seth Rogen.

[1974] Seth.

[1975] Who else?

[1976] Almost Sethian.

[1977] There are a lot of sets that could have been.

[1978] Really, truthfully.

[1979] Could have been Seth Avitt.

[1980] Actually, I think originally when you were telling the story, I thought it was Seths because you went to Seth Aivitt's wedding.

[1981] I did in North Carolina with Lincoln.

[1982] So I thought maybe she also knew Seth Avid.

[1983] And that's, but it's Seth Green.

[1984] Yeah, lovely South Green, South Green, Seth Green.

[1985] Who we've had on this podcast before and is a delight.

[1986] I think he's, if I had to rank favorite episodes, he is definitely in the top three.

[1987] From the feedback I've gotten.

[1988] It's a good one.

[1989] You pronounced it Ginkgo Balboa.

[1990] Great.

[1991] Ginkgo Bloba.

[1992] Okay.

[1993] Yeah, just so you.

[1994] Can you say it?

[1995] That's enough of you.

[1996] Try to say it.

[1997] What is it?

[1998] Ginko Boloba.

[1999] Yeah, you said it.

[2000] I did?

[2001] I don't like that version of it.

[2002] You like Balboa?

[2003] Absolutely.

[2004] Rocky Balboa, Balboa Island.

[2005] There's a lot of great belboas.

[2006] Ginkgovaloba.

[2007] Can you say Vietnam?

[2008] Vietnam.

[2009] You did.

[2010] That's not what I can't.

[2011] Yes, Vietnamese.

[2012] Oh, yeah.

[2013] That's what I can't say.

[2014] I hope no one.

[2015] I just really pray that no one takes that as like me having a lower opinion or a superior opinion.

[2016] How could anyone think that?

[2017] Well, because they go, like, you can't take the time to learn how to say the damn name, right?

[2018] And that's a, that's a, that's a good complaint.

[2019] But I just have, I have limitations as a dyslexic.

[2020] We all, we all have limitations.

[2021] You're right.

[2022] But, but we isolated for you what's happening, right?

[2023] You're mixing the M and the N. Which again is, I think is a fall out of the dyslexia.

[2024] I do too, but maybe the Vietnamese.

[2025] Yes.

[2026] Great.

[2027] Okay.

[2028] Is everyone happy?

[2029] Things really took a turn.

[2030] I got defensive.

[2031] She mentions that vitamin B1.

[2032] Right.

[2033] Alcohol depletes vitamin B1.

[2034] That you get nightmares.

[2035] This is what she said.

[2036] So I did read that.

[2037] Okay.

[2038] However, I will be really honest.

[2039] I didn't read it in any article that I trusted.

[2040] Okay.

[2041] Okay.

[2042] I looked a lot and there were a lot, there were a handful of articles about that.

[2043] Right.

[2044] But I didn't recognize the validity of any of those articles.

[2045] They didn't seem like quality sources to you.

[2046] Correct.

[2047] So I could not really, I can't corroborate that statement.

[2048] Or dispel it.

[2049] Correct.

[2050] Yeah.

[2051] But I did find that I do trust thiamine, which is vitamin B1.

[2052] Okay.

[2053] helps decrease the risk and symptoms of a specific brain disorder called, ooh, Wernicki Korsakoff.

[2054] I'm definitely saying that wrong.

[2055] WKS.

[2056] Okay.

[2057] That's what it is.

[2058] And yeah, it's related to low levels of thymies.

[2059] And what are the symptoms of that?

[2060] Do I have it?

[2061] I don't know, but it is often seen in alcoholics.

[2062] Bad dreams I could not find.

[2063] Okay.

[2064] I wonder if I have it.

[2065] from being an alcoholic.

[2066] Between 30 % and 80 % of alcoholics are believed to have a thiamine deficiency.

[2067] Well, to me, that's pretty conclusive evidence.

[2068] I know you couldn't find anything.

[2069] No, not the nightmares.

[2070] Oh, the nightmares.

[2071] But by the way, I totally believed her because when I did a bunch of opiates, I would have the craziest fucking dreams.

[2072] They're so weird and they'd be violent.

[2073] Right.

[2074] As I'm trying to fall asleep, I'm just having images in my head that I've never had.

[2075] Yeah, but that could also just be the drug, right?

[2076] Well, but the drug would do something.

[2077] It would alter my chemistry in a way that would create that.

[2078] So there's some chemical is being depleted or blocked or inhibited from uploading or whatever.

[2079] Yeah.

[2080] We just don't know what it is.

[2081] Well, or she does.

[2082] Or she does.

[2083] I did some, that's my job here, right?

[2084] I know.

[2085] You do a great job.

[2086] Good job.

[2087] Thanks.

[2088] Good job.

[2089] We talked about Erica's brothers and I asked if they were twins and I'm embarrassed that I asked that.

[2090] Why?

[2091] Because we had already established that they were 30.

[2092] They were both 30.

[2093] Well, it was like, how old are they 30?

[2094] Oh, right.

[2095] So obviously they're twins.

[2096] I just didn't put two and two together.

[2097] Although it's, I imagine it's conceivable that one brother could be born on January 1st and then a second baby could come along by December 30.

[2098] It would be so hard to do because generally speaking, well, I guess you're right.

[2099] It depends because because generally speaking.

[2100] you can't get pregnant if you're breastfeeding.

[2101] Right.

[2102] I don't know that that's true.

[2103] Let's have a follow.

[2104] I think it's true.

[2105] Okay.

[2106] But you might not breastfeed.

[2107] That's right.

[2108] So it could happen.

[2109] Absolutely.

[2110] But really, I should just know they were twins.

[2111] We talk about Matt Saracen, and Matt Saracen is a character on Friday Night Lights, played by Zach Guilford.

[2112] Yeah.

[2113] Total Babe, great actor.

[2114] Yeah, he was my favorite.

[2115] He was.

[2116] More than Riggins.

[2117] Way more.

[2118] God, I like you.

[2119] I like you.

[2120] You have a really specific, you know what you like.

[2121] Yeah.

[2122] Riggins was way too.

[2123] He did not have his shit together.

[2124] Oh, okay.

[2125] He scared you.

[2126] No, he didn't scare me. I would be so annoyed if I was in a relationship with him.

[2127] Right.

[2128] Because he just couldn't figure out how to do the right thing.

[2129] Yeah.

[2130] You don't you think his face and hair couldn't get you through that?

[2131] It doesn't.

[2132] We talk about this so often.

[2133] Those things just personality trumps it so much.

[2134] And Sirson was taking care of his grand.

[2135] grandmother.

[2136] I mean, he was so nice and very kind to his girlfriend, the tailored child.

[2137] What was her name?

[2138] Yeah.

[2139] Forget her name.

[2140] Coach T's daughter.

[2141] Yeah, Tammy and Coach's daughter.

[2142] Forget a name.

[2143] Anyway, he is a superior love.

[2144] For you.

[2145] Yeah.

[2146] Yeah.

[2147] I look at Riggins and I go, well, he's the rebel.

[2148] I'm always attracted to the rebel.

[2149] I'm like, this guy's taking the rules.

[2150] He flushed him right down the toilet.

[2151] Let's watch him go.

[2152] But he's not.

[2153] He didn't flush it.

[2154] He's like, you know, drunk on the couch.

[2155] Missing class.

[2156] Like nothing about that is appealing.

[2157] And I know that people are really attracted to the rebel.

[2158] Like they are.

[2159] Yeah.

[2160] Rebel without a cause.

[2161] But in life are they?

[2162] Like maybe at first, at first.

[2163] Yes.

[2164] Yes.

[2165] But then once you have to start dealing with the real life shit that comes along with it, That's not fun or interesting.

[2166] I agree.

[2167] It's not sustainable.

[2168] What you want is the Reformed Rebel.

[2169] Sure.

[2170] That's right.

[2171] But look, I was a rebel who was also graduated college, Magna Cum Laude.

[2172] Like, you would have been living with me. Sure, I'd be drunk on the couch and I'd miss a few days.

[2173] But I was also crushing.

[2174] It's not like I wasn't.

[2175] That's different.

[2176] He wasn't.

[2177] He wasn't, right?

[2178] Yeah.

[2179] But you could be a rebel who's also accumulating some accomplishments.

[2180] I wonder if I knew you back then what I would have thought.

[2181] Me too.

[2182] It might have been a little chaotic.

[2183] We can reverse engineer it a little bit.

[2184] I think a good test of that would be if the people who liked me back then, now I have no relationship with because I'm a different person.

[2185] So the fact that Nate has been my best friends with the whole thing and Aaron and Scotty.

[2186] Yes.

[2187] Right.

[2188] I think that says a little bit.

[2189] Yeah.

[2190] And the thing you would have hated about me, I think wouldn't have been so drinking related as much as I would get drunk and then my ego would need validation nonstop.

[2191] And I would steer conversations and directions that you would end up having to give me a compliment.

[2192] And it was just disgusting.

[2193] That part of me, I think, is the most dreadful that I'm sure Nate witnessed a lot and somehow got through and Scotty and all these people.

[2194] Yeah.

[2195] And I think I could have lived with that.

[2196] You think so?

[2197] It's more the chaos that makes me a little, I would be, I would be, I guess you're right.

[2198] I would be afraid of that.

[2199] Yeah.

[2200] Anyway, you called Erica, you likened her to a Robert Crumb drawing.

[2201] I say that with peace and love and peace and love.

[2202] That's a compliment from my aesthetic, by the way.

[2203] Yeah.

[2204] Yeah.

[2205] Yeah.

[2206] And he was a cartoonist.

[2207] An amazing documentary.

[2208] Did I say it in a thing?

[2209] You didn't, but you can now.

[2210] Yeah.

[2211] David Lynch produced a documentary called Krum.

[2212] Called Krum, 1994.

[2213] That's just awesome.

[2214] It's in my top five documentaries of all time.

[2215] Yeah.

[2216] He was a troubled person.

[2217] He was a very interesting human being.

[2218] He has two brothers that are super fascinating.

[2219] They're all equally weird.

[2220] There's an example.

[2221] They all had this really weird recipe that was super destructive in two out of the three of them.

[2222] He somehow kept it on the rails enough to be the most brilliant cartoonist of all time.

[2223] Yeah.

[2224] But I encourage people to look up what that.

[2225] means.

[2226] Or maybe I'll post it.

[2227] He was obsessed with the Amazonian, like the conventional Amazonian woman, like huge ass, huge tits.

[2228] He was always tiny in the drawings, the women where he would be caught between their butt cheeks or caught between their boots or he just loved being emasculated by these big, powerful, buxamee women.

[2229] And he talks a lot about it in the documentary.

[2230] It's very fascinating.

[2231] Yeah.

[2232] Yeah, check it out.

[2233] Oh, I have a correction.

[2234] So in the Mark Maren episode, I said the Golden Bears were the WMBA team.

[2235] And a lot of people have told me that that's incorrect.

[2236] Right.

[2237] That that's Berkeley's team.

[2238] Yeah.

[2239] And the WMBA team is the L .A. Sparks.

[2240] Right.

[2241] So correction.

[2242] Sorry I made that mistake, everyone.

[2243] But I'm only human.

[2244] And I'm glad that you corrected me. I'm happy to be corrected.

[2245] And I still have not figured out what you changed your mind on.

[2246] Remember we were in the car and you, it's, you.

[2247] Well, I said death penalty.

[2248] No, we were in the car and I, and I said, oh, that's something you changed your mind on and we laughed.

[2249] I couldn't remember.

[2250] Then we brought it up on the podcast and said, and said, you'll probably remember by the fact check.

[2251] And I still don't.

[2252] Because it was so stupid.

[2253] It was like I decided I liked dark chocolate or something.

[2254] Yeah, something silly.

[2255] Yeah.

[2256] And we'll never know.

[2257] The world will never know.

[2258] And then the other thing that we're hearing a lot of is that is that last week you said.

[2259] So, hey, I'm not going to go into detail about CTE because I did it in the Joe Joel McHale fact check.

[2260] And of course, that's the fact check that is lost.

[2261] Went missing.

[2262] So we've decided that instead of re -recording it, we're just going to double down.

[2263] And from now on, we're going to go, if you want to hear Dax have sex with a pumpkin, just check out the Joe McHale fact check.

[2264] That's where we recorded it.

[2265] Yeah.

[2266] So that's going to be the dumping ground for us.

[2267] of anything we're too lazy to do.

[2268] We'll just see the Joel McHale fact check.

[2269] Yeah, correct.

[2270] That's all.

[2271] Okay.

[2272] I love you dearly.

[2273] Love you.

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